Patterico's Pontifications

7/13/2020

U.S. Covid Update

Filed under: General — Dana @ 2:46 pm



[guest post by Dana]

A retweet from the President of the United States:

Untitled (Recovered)

Sure, tell that to the families of the 137,000 people who have died from the coronavirus. I’m sure they’ll get behind your insane campaign that everyone is lying about the pandemic. Trump re-tweeted this crap because he believes it’s true. Is it no wonder that we have not had the leadership necessary to meet this crisis? These nimrods are too dim to realize that it is possible to hold two thoughts in one’s head at the same time: A very real disease, which can be fatal to some people is spreading across the nation, and, both sides of the political aisle are made up of some very corrupt individuals who may, unfortunately, try to use the pandemic to further their political causes or themselves with their bases. (See: Donald J. Trump refusing to wear a mask.) But the point has never changed: who is in charge of the nation right here and right now, and is therefore the one with whom the buck stops? A responsible leader sees the pandemic for what it is and works 24/7 to stem the tide and provide the leadership, materials, directives and responses necessary to help the states and the nation push it back. A wackadoodle toddler-in-chief though, spends his time pushing lies about the pandemic, and throws regular tantrums because a helluva lot of Americans are justifiably mad at him FOR NOT DOING HIS DAMN JOB.

Meanwhile, with regard to Covid-19, this is California today – based on current local data, testing, contact tracing, infection control, emergency supplies, containment measures:

Effective July 13, 2020, ALL counties must close indoor operations in these sectors:

Dine-in restaurants
Wineries and tasting rooms
Movie theaters
Family entertainment centers (for example: bowling alleys, miniature golf, batting cages and arcades)
Zoos and museums
Cardrooms
Additionally, bars, brewpubs, breweries, and pubs must close all operations both indoor and outdoor statewide.

Counties that have remained on the *County Monitoring List for 3 consecutive days will be required to shut down the following industries or activities unless they can be modified to operate outside or by pick-up.

Fitness centers
Worship services
Protests
Offices for non-essential sectors
Personal care services, like nail salons, body waxing and tattoo parlors
Hair salons and barbershops
Malls

*includes 30 state counties.

Florida :

Florida reported another 12,624 coronavirus cases Monday bringing the statewide total to 282,435. Another 35 fatalities were also reported bringing the death toll to 4,277

The numbers mark a single-day decrease from the record shattering 15,300 new cases Florida had reported on Sunday, but it is still the second-highest single day increase in the state since the pandemic began.

Arizona:

Arizona is reporting all-time highs in its use of ventilators and beds in intensive care units for coronavirus patients.

The state Department of Health Services posted that 671 COVID-19 patients were on ventilators and 936 were occupying ICUs as of Sunday. Hospitals were hovering around 90% capacity.

Health officials report another 1,357 confirmed COVID-19 cases and eight additional deaths. Arizona has seen 123,824 cases and 2,245 deaths. However, the number of infections is thought to be far higher because many people have not been tested, and studies suggest people can be infected with the virus without feeling sick.

Texas:

More than 258,100 cases have been reported in the state, and more than 3,100 people in Texas have died, according to the Texas Department of State Health Services. More than 132,600 people have recovered.

Central Texas counties:
Travis County: Over 14,700 cases have been reported and at least 169 people have died. At least 11,268 people have recovered from the virus.

Hays County: Over 3,500 confirmed cases have been reported and at least 11 people have died. At least 655 people have recovered from the virus.

Williamson County: More than 3,800 cases have been reported in the county and at least 54 people have died. More than 970 people have recovered from the virus.

Dallas County:

Dallas County is reporting six more COVID-19 related deaths and 1,114 new confirmed cases of the infection Monday…”We continue to see over 1,000 new positive COVID-19 cases each day and we know there is still rampant community spread of this virus.”

From the NYT:

More than 100,000 new cases were identified. Seven states set daily case records. Florida added more cases on Sunday than any state had previously been known to, and on Monday, the state reported more than 12,600 additional cases, its second-highest total recorded for a single day in the pandemic.

And that was just over the past few days.

The U.S. outbreak — once centered in the densely packed northeastern hubs of New York and New Jersey — is now growing across 39 states, from the worsening hot spots in the South and West to those emerging in the Midwest. Restrictions on business operations and mass gatherings, along with mask wearing, have become debate fodder in an increasingly polarized election year.

As a new week begins, the country’s outlook is exceptionally grim. Case numbers are rising in all but a handful of states. Hospitals are running out of beds. And some of the country’s biggest urban centers — Atlanta, Dallas, Los Angeles, Miami, Phoenix, Jacksonville, Fla. — have seen out-of-control growth with few concrete signs of progress.

The bigger picture:

Untitled (Recovered)

Gosh, if only there were something individual citizens could do to help stem the tide…

–Dana

141 Responses to “U.S. Covid Update”

  1. Sigh.

    Dana (25e0dc)

  2. You don’t understand, it’s all been a hoax. The case numbers? Hoaxes. Hospitalizations? Hoaxity hoaxes. The harrowing accounts of ER Doctors? Hoaxes piled on hoaxes. The dead people in the refrigerator trucks in the parking lots? Piles of hoaxes lying side by side with other chilled hoaxes.

    I mean who are you going to believe – Donald Trump or your lying eyes?

    Victor (a225f9)

  3. Before June 1st, it was the Xi Virus. After June 1st, it became the Trump Plague. It’ll just go away. One day, it will simply disappear. Hope is a plan.

    Paul Montagu (c9d3c1)

  4. “Chuckie, Chuckie, Chuckie!”- The Unknown Comic [Murray Langston] ‘The Gong Show’ 1976-78, NBC TV

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  5. Lying liars and the lying liars who retweet them.

    nk (1d9030)

  6. Let me note again, for the sake of the edification of those on this thread who haven’t seen me say it elsewhere:

    I loathe Trump with every fiber of my being. AND I believe that the “experts” have an agenda. Thank you.

    Gryph (08c844)

  7. And remember, kids;

    Cases != Deaths.

    Gryph (08c844)

  8. fauci and brix killed the economy

    mg (8cbc69)

  9. and china

    mg (8cbc69)

  10. 8. Aye. And let’s not forget that Cuomo and Noisome killed a bunch of nursing home patients while they were at it.

    Gryph (08c844)

  11. fauci and brix should be the first guinea pigs when it comes to vaccination time

    mg (8cbc69)

  12. 100 years ago they would put you in jail for not wearing a mask during the 1918 pandemic. Everyone understood that spreading the goo from your mouth spreads disease. It’s a matter of common sense.

    Today, we still understand that. Albeit nothing is 100%, but it is actually pretty easy to make good decisions.

    It is amazing how long Trump waited to simply agree to stop fighting against this method. It was just another holdover from his hesitation to be a decisive leader on the pandemic early. DCSCA’s right… that is entertaining in a sick way. Anyone pretending this isn’t a real disease is probably very sheltered from cities.

    fauci and brix killed the economy

    mg (8cbc69) — 7/13/2020 @ 3:35 pm

    That’s like saying the helmet killed the motorcyclist.

    Dustin (724986)

  13. 10 – and rino govna baker in ma. killed a lot of vets and older people…. jobs for campaign donations. pathetic

    mg (8cbc69)

  14. helmets don’t continue to lie

    mg (8cbc69)

  15. We are going to keep having to see more infections, and more return to a semi-lockdown state. If people just wore a damn mask in public, this might not have to happen.

    Dana (25e0dc)

  16. Tell that to 135,000 families.

    Yeah, like the USA – and not the rest of the world got CV-19. WHy post things, if the entire point is just to attack Trump? We get it, you don’t like Trump and want Biden or whoever. We knew that years ago.

    The big Picture it that we’re far from herd immunity or a vaccine, and more people are going to get CV-19 and the vast, vast, majority of them will NOT be hospitalized or die. Trump is completely correct to retweet this guy, because 90% of the hysteria is politically motivated & will go away the SECCOND Biden is elected.

    rcocean (2e1c02)

  17. 10,000 new cases in Florida, new deaths 25. How many deaths in NY or NJ? 50? Despite having 200,000 active cases. Meanwhile 7.000 Americans die every da but not from CV-19.

    rcocean (2e1c02)

  18. Who is getting infected is the most important thing. Where is the Demographic Breakdown? Why don’t we ever get detailed facts? People under 40? Death rate is almost zero.

    rcocean (2e1c02)

  19. WHy post things, if the entire point is just to attack Trump?

    Why not?

    more people are going to get CV-19 and the vast, vast, majority of them will NOT be hospitalized or die

    The notion that almost no one will have life changing consequences from this virus are pretty absurd at this point. I mean, most people are connected enough to society that they know at least a few people who are dead, at least a few who have recovered and thought it was tough. Granted, internet commenters are not always the social type, but wear a mask anyway. Trust the cool kids.

    Dustin (724986)

  20. 15. Thank you, Ms. Martyr. I’ll let the Vatican know to put you on the fast track for sainthood.

    But seriously, is it possible, even plausible, that masks are not the solution to this problem? Can you entertain the idea that maybe back when Fauci and Birx were talking about “flattening the curve won’t stop the virus,” they were correct back then?

    Gryph (08c844)

  21. 15. I thought following the guidelines was to flatten the curve, which was never mean to stop the virus. What’d I miss?

    Gryph (08c844)

  22. 19. Absurd to people with severe cases of a disease called “confirmation bias.” If you can think of a way to make me wear a mask, you’re welcome to try. Until then, ridicule will only steel my resolve.

    Gryph (08c844)

  23. 15. Thank you, Ms. Martyr. I’ll let the Vatican know to put you on the fast track for sainthood.

    Oh wow, that’d be awesome! Thanks!

    But seriously, is it possible, even plausible, that masks are not the solution to this problem? Can you entertain the idea that maybe back when Fauci and Birx were talking about “flattening the curve won’t stop the virus,” they were correct back then?

    But seriously, no one says masks are *the* solution to the problem, and you insult your own intelligence by even suggesting that I think that. *But* they are a way to help reduce the spread of the virus.

    Dana (25e0dc)

  24. 23. If masks aren’t the solution to the problem, you should have no problem with the precautions I am taking, including scrupulous handwashing, avoiding medical facilities whenever possible (most notably nursing homes), and avoiding work when I’m sick (which hasn’t happened since October-last).

    And if I thought masks did help to reduce the spread of the virus, you and I wouldn’t be going back-and-forth like this. Your “experts” have been giving us conflicting information on that very subject between March and June of this year. I don’t know about you, but I can remember things going back to the beginning of the year.

    Gryph (08c844)

  25. As for whatever you think about my intelligence, or my insult of my own intelligence(??!!), I am intelligent enough and beyond old enough to handle my affairs, medical and otherwise, within the bounds of the law. Why that seems to bother so many “conservatives” escapes me.

    Gryph (08c844)

  26. Having spent the last four months isolated, if September rolls around and more masses of idiots decide to exercise their freeeeeedums to haircuts and water parks again, it might be time for those who haven’t previously to look in to the 2nd Amendment.

    These fine people are threatening our lives and our economy.

    john (cd2753)

  27. But seriously, no one says masks are *the* solution to the problem, and you insult your own intelligence by even suggesting that I think that. *But* they are a way to help reduce the spread of the virus.

    Dana (25e0dc) — 7/13/2020 @ 4:17 pm

    It’s the dumbest version of ‘perfect is enemy of the good’ I’ve ever heard of. Obviously slowing the spread of disease still means disease exists. Obviously masks don’t stop things completely. And obviously they do slow the spread. This stuff is just a sociopath test.

    Dustin (724986)

  28. It’s be a whole lot easier to take the advice of the “experts” if it weren’t so blindingly obvious they have an agenda. The “experts” lost all credibility when they bent over backwards to explain how this virus is so woke it doesn’t spread if you’re attending a BLM protest/riot. But it will spread if you’re protesting lockdowns.

    Edoc118 (2faa81)

  29. 27. Considering all the changes I have made to my lifestyle in the last few months, you people should really follow your own advice. The perfect is the enemy of the good. On that, you and I absolutely agree. That said, you can take your face diaper and cram it squarely up…

    Gryph (08c844)

  30. 26. Because I’m not wearing a mask everywhere I go, you’re entertaining the idea of shooting me? Or am I misunderstanding, John? Because just do you know, some of us anti-mask howlers are your fellow 2nd amendment supporters.

    Gryph (08c844)

  31. It’s be a whole lot easier to take the advice of the “experts” if it weren’t so blindingly obvious they have an agenda.

    Their agenda is less dead people. The level of effort people are putting into being obtuse for stupid reasons would be funny, if it didn’t also mean that they’re putting other peoples lives in danger.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  32. It’s be a whole lot easier to take the advice of the “experts” if it weren’t so blindingly obvious they have an agenda. The “experts” lost all credibility when they bent over backwards to explain how this virus is so woke it doesn’t spread if you’re attending a BLM protest/riot. But it will spread if you’re protesting lockdowns.

    Edoc118 (2faa81) — 7/13/2020 @ 4:34 pm

    Sure, that’s a good criticism on how the media has handled things. Doesn’t really change common sense though. The protests and riots spread the disease.

    Dr. Anthony Fauci says his advice for people who want to attend President Donald Trump’s campaign rallies is the same for those protesting the president’s policies, warning that any large group setting is “a danger” and “risky” during the coronavirus pandemic.

    If a person insists on going, Fauci said, they should wear a mask, especially when they are yelling or chanting.

    In an interview with ABC News’ “Powerhouse Politics” podcast, Fauci said he understands the urge people have to participate in the political process but that the safest bet is to avoid congregating in large groups.

    Honestly.

    Dustin (724986)

  33. 32. It’s not just how the media has handled things. Have you ever heard Fauci criticize the rioters? Or anyone else that would be considered an “expert?”

    Gryph (08c844)

  34. The “experts” lost all credibility when they bent over backwards to explain how this virus is so woke it doesn’t spread if you’re attending a BLM protest/riot.

    Which experts? Every expert? A majority of experts? A minority of experts? Or maybe just a handful of media-appointed so-called experts whom the Trumpadoodles were deliriously happy to latch on to in their never-ending battle against #Presidential Harassment!!1!?

    nk (1d9030)

  35. Can we just do whatever Taiwan is doing? 23 million people. Population density roughly twice that of Japan. Lots of comings and goings with neighboring China prior to February. Seven Covid deaths. Seven.

    Whether it’s masks, testing, tracing, I don’t care. Let’s just do it. Taiwan is kicking ass. Why can’t we?

    norcal (a5428a)

  36. Never mind Fauci criticizing the rioters. Have you seen Fauci buy Gryph a triple fudge sundae with sprinkles? Or even without sprinkles? I bet you haven’t. Not even a lollypop!

    I respectfully suggest that you’ve worked your act to death, Mr. Gryph. It’s become tedious. Find some new material.

    nk (1d9030)

  37. Why can’t we?

    Because too many Americans don’t care.

    Dana (25e0dc)

  38. Experts have to learn too. When it was clear that the transmission rate can be mitigated through mask-wearing, they changed their recommendations accordingly. With that, let me ask you anti-mask people: if they had come out of the gate advocating for a mask to help reduce transmission, would you have worn one? If not, why not?

    Dana (25e0dc)

  39. the political hacks that locked us down should bend over and get stabbed with the trial vaccine

    mg (8cbc69)

  40. I’m from the gubmint and I’m here to help.
    They would have to taze me bro to take a vaccine

    mg (8cbc69)

  41. Let’s just do it. Taiwan is kicking ass. Why can’t we?

    Yes, let’s literally become an island the size of Massachusetts.

    We’ve been deprived of this eureka moment because Trump has dumbed us down.

    beer ‘n pretzels (a73d0d)

  42. “ Which experts? Every expert? A majority of experts? A minority of experts? Or maybe just a handful of media-appointed so-called experts whom the Trumpadoodles were deliriously happy to latch on to in their never-ending battle against #Presidential Harassment!!1!?”
    _

    Yeah the way they were loudly condemned by media for throwing science out the window and proclaiming white supremacy worse than the virus was……oh wait.
    __

    harkin (5af287)

  43. We’re finally learning more about it and not just pushing panic porn on one end of the spectrum and total abandonment of precautions on the other (at least some are).

    I found this article on the virus and genetics very interesting:

    …..I expect that there are a certain set of genes which (if you have the “wrong” variants) pre-dispose you to have a severe case of COVID, another set of genes which (if you have the “wrong” variants) predispose you to have a mild case, and if you’re lucky enough to have the right variants of these you are most likely going to get a mild or asymptomatic case.

    There has been some good preliminary work on this which was also under-discussed:

    NEJM paper studied Italy and Spain and found that genes controlling blood type predicted disease severity. [link]

    NYTimes covered a follow-up paper showing that this varies by ethnicity, and in particular ~60% of South Asians carry these genes compared to only 4% of East Asians and almost no Africans. [link]

    You will note that the majority of doctors/nurses who died of COVID in the UK were South Asian. This is quite striking.”

    https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2020/07/a-highly-qualified-reader-emails-me-on-heterogeneity.html
    _

    Read it all
    _

    harkin (5af287)

  44. Look, the more people that work to help minimize the spread of the virus, the more likely we will see it run its course sooner rather than later. Small businesses are closing down, states are going back to soft lockdowns as infection rates are climbing. Those who are at high-risk (elderly/underlying health issues) can stay home, but the fact is, they aren’t the only ones getting sick and transmitting infection. It’s hitting young people, middle-aged people and people in good health. So instead of griping about the experts for changing course as more research became available or attacking Americans who wear a dumb mask because common sense says that a barrier can help limit transmission, maybe figure out what you can do to help limit the spread of the disease. The bottom line is, however, whether you are young and healthy and with no underlying medical conditions, you still face the possibility that you could infect someone else, and more easily so without a mask.

    Dana (25e0dc)

  45. All those smaller businesses forced to close, but Walmart, Target, Costco, Sam’s Club, etc., remain open.

    Because Science!!!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  46. At this point, when I hear “so and so is deliberately tanking the economy to win an election.” What I really hear is “I would tank the economy to win an election and I am projecting my own sociopathology onto my ‘enemies’.”

    Nic (896fdf)

  47. For better or worse, those larger businesses can absorb bigger hits then can the little businesses. My understanding, at least in California, is that standalone (not in mall) stores of any size can remain open. They aren’t on the list. As far as eateries go, my town, like any number them across the nation, has blocked off the main street and allowed restaurants in the area to set up service tables so that everyone is eating outside. This debuted last weekend and apparently it was a grand success, with plans for it to be a continual thing. That will certainly help the restaurants. To what extent, I don’t know. I’ve been concerned that although restaurants can open, if they are only allowed 50% capacity will they make enough money to remain open? Again, as we all know it’s a balancing act between public health and the economy.

    Dana (25e0dc)

  48. @45 Or because you have to buy food somewhere. Because science!!!

    Nic (896fdf)

  49. Well, sometimes the press leaves out part of the truth. Some would call that a lie.

    There are LOTS of stories about Mexico closing its border to Americans (aka “Man Bites Dog”), but only CNN is talking about the flow the other way. It seems that ANYONE in Mexico diagnosed with Covid-19 (and can legally do so) is entering the US for treatment. This is filling up border area hospitals in Texas, California, Arizona and New Mexico.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/29/health/border-hospitals-coronavirus/index.html

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  50. I’ve been concerned that although restaurants can open, if they are only allowed 50% capacity will they make enough money to remain open

    Allow me to answer that. No, they won’t. Restaurants are a tough go even in the best of times.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  51. What I really hear is “I would tank the economy to win an election and I am projecting my own sociopathology onto my ‘enemies’.”

    What do you hear when oh so vital public health measures are sent to the back of the woke bus when protests are at stake?

    beer ‘n pretzels (a73d0d)

  52. @49: I’m guessing Taiwan doesn’t have this problem. They must be doing something right.

    beer ‘n pretzels (245517)

  53. 35, at least one of it’s most famous exports got Mitchy Boy to mask up.

    urbanleftbehind (3e59fb)

  54. Another banner day for the United States of America: 65,488 new cases and 465 more dead Americans.

    Paul Montagu (cbbfc4)

  55. Yes she did, urban. By the way, you can toss Elaine Chao and Mitch McConnell on that Julia Roberts / Lyle Lovett what-was-she-thinking list.

    I guess it’s down to the way he looked at her, no matter what. :)

    norcal (a5428a)

  56. @51 That they didn’t think it would do any good to tell everyone to go home, so they didn’t bother. It probably contained some cowardice on their parts too.

    Nic (896fdf)

  57. One should never forbid what one lacks the power to prevent. — Napoleon Bonaparte

    nk (1d9030)

  58. One should never forbid what one lacks the power to prevent. — Napoleon Bonaparte

    nk (1d9030) — 7/13/2020 @ 7:38 pm

    This is the lesson we learned from Prohibition, but have yet to learn concerning the War on Drugs.

    norcal (a5428a)

  59. Fifth Avenue orange pervy poofter boy draft-dodgers, putting on a billionaire act with money borrowed from Russian kleptocrats and the Chinese government, can bluff and bluster and pretend their demented spit-bubbles equate with action. Self-made emperors immortalized in history know better.

    nk (1d9030)

  60. 55, your mention of that list is the segue to note on the likely confirmation of her death, Naya Rivera and David Spade were a thing for a couple of months in 2017.

    urbanleftbehind (e0bebd)

  61. Like Prohibition, forbidding the right of the people peacefully to assemble would have required a Constitutional amendment, so there is that as well.

    nk (1d9030)

  62. Trump and his cohorts in lavender and mauve could colorably be prosecuted for violating the civil rights of the Lafayette Park protesters.

    nk (1d9030)

  63. You think Spade is a bad-looking guy, urban? Or was it just the age difference between him and Rivera?

    norcal (a5428a)

  64. Omission of real fatalities of transmissability of effective treatment regiments of the real efficacy of masks those are just some areas you think they could own up to. Of course nor.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  65. Spade is a 4 on a good day, and Rivera is a solid 9.
    That, and he violated the Rule Of Divide By Two Plus Seven, but not by much.

    Paul Montagu (cbbfc4)

  66. That, and he violated the Rule Of Divide By Two Plus Seven, but not by much.

    Give it a few years and it’ll be OK.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  67. Narciso, they have when they are wrong.
    But they haven’t been wrong nearly as often you think they are.

    Facts are facts no matter how hard you try to claim they aren’t.

    Kishnevi (e257c8)

  68. That, and he violated the Rule Of Divide By Two Plus Seven, but not by much.

    Give it a few years and it’ll be OK.

    …not for guys who look like Spade and especially not for guys who hang with cancellees Adam Sandler and Rob Schneider. Classic case of double standard.

    urbanleftbehind (d97c30)

  69. Gryph to Dana:

    15. Thank you, Ms. Martyr. I’ll let the Vatican know to put you on the fast track for sainthood.

    nk:

    I respectfully suggest that you’ve worked your act to death, Mr. Gryph. It’s become tedious. Find some new material.

    nk is correct.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  70. Classic case of double standard.

    Here you go, guys: https://www.memedroid.com/memes/detail/1903677

    nk (1d9030)

  71. That’s worse than Katherine McPhee and the old British guy.

    urbanleftbehind (19f9b7)

  72. Sure, tell that to the families of the 137,000 people who have died from the coronavirus.

    Here is something to tell the families:

    Dr. Mohammad Hussain, who runs Vadodara’s Faith Hospital, told the Express, “There are conflicting studies about the use of HCQ. While initially the US studies rejected it and cited side-effects, European countries backed its prophylactic use. In Vadodara, it has shown positive results. We have been able to restrict cases in clusters. Nagarwada no longer has a huge number of cases.”

    Hussain reiterated that no serious side effects were reported.

    https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/stephen-green/2020/07/13/hcq-helps-contain-covid-19-cases-new-evidence-and-a-major-retraction-n636361

    The article also notes that The Lancet has “quietly retracted” one of their negative Hydroxychloroquin editorials.

    BuDuh (93f4fd)

  73. nk,

    I’ve got to hand it to you. You excel at finding stuff on the internet.

    norcal (a5428a)

  74. Let’s just do it. Taiwan is kicking ass. Why can’t we?

    Yes, let’s literally become an island the size of Massachusetts.

    We’ve been deprived of this eureka moment because Trump has dumbed us down.

    beer ‘n pretzels (a73d0d) — 7/13/2020 @ 5:44 pm

    If anything, the larger land mass and less dense population of the U.S. should be an advantage in fighting Covid. Want to argue population? Okay. The U.S. has about 15 times as many people as Taiwan. Taiwan has seven Covid deaths since the outbreak. 7 X 15 = 105. If we were as competent as Taiwan, we’d have 105 deaths.

    norcal (a5428a)

  75. Flavio Briatore and Elisabetta Gregoraci. Married.

    His other girlfriends were Heidi Klum with whom he fathered a daughter without benefit of clergy, and Naomi Campbell. Wikipedia paints him colorfully in many other respects as well.

    She gained notoriety when it came to light that she had offered sexual favours in return for a job as a showgirl for the Italian national public television company RAI. Afterwards she worked for Silvio Berloscuni.

    nk (1d9030)

  76. Well, his name is Flavio, nk.

    norcal (a5428a)

  77. Let’s not oversell HCQ, BuDuh. The science is far from definitive.

    Paul Montagu (cbbfc4)

  78. Tell India not to “oversell it,” Paul. Your Factcheck(liberal go to site) doesn’t mention the report from India. Let me know when Soros takes on India.

    BuDuh (60fe01)

  79. Well lancet can set itself along mad mahazine

    https://social.quodverum.com/interact/104507947152191698?type=reblog

    Narciso (7404b5)

  80. Well, you’re welcome to run down the rabbit hole that HCQ is a “game changer” and “tremendous breakthrough”. I won’t be following that brain damage from the Trump-sniffing hacks at PJ Media.
    The study in India is far from finished, and the FDA has already made a determination.

    Paul Montagu (cbbfc4)

  81. If we were as competent as Taiwan, we’d have 105 deaths.

    I’m not arguing population, but you knew that.

    Taiwan is an island, and a small one. It is able to tightly control who enters, and has done exactly that.

    But, we need to learn from them because they’re kicking ass. Let’s ask them how they managed to construct a border wall they call “ocean”, have a handful of ports of entry, and avoid mass BLM protests and rioting, and be sure to take plenty of notes.

    beer ‘n pretzels (906ea1)

  82. Good for you, Paul.

    BuDuh (60fe01)

  83. No, good for you, BuDuh. Enjoy that rabbit hole.

    Paul Montagu (cbbfc4)

  84. You are really worked up over this, Paul.

    BuDuh (60fe01)

  85. 100’s of thousands of people in this country routinely take HCQ for the treatment of R. Arthritis and Lupus. And, have been for many years. Is the FDA going to now make a determination that the risk is greater than the benefits for them? No, I don’t think so. So, why now for COVID? That’s a good question.

    HCQ is an immunosuppressant, in other words, it acts to suppress your immune system. Why is this a good thing? Well, it is for a very specific case, and that case is if your own immune system kicks into overdrive and starts to attack your own body. Now the COVID virus does not do this for everyone, in fact it does for only a small percentage of cases, undoubtably genetic. However, for that small percentage, the administration of HCQ can be a game changer. Now if you are politically allergic to HCQ, there are several other immunosuppressants that could be substituted that will do the same thing, I suggest you talk it over with your doctor.

    Colliente (05736f)

  86. From June 30th:

    UK regulators say hydroxychloroquine and a similar drug chloroquine can be given to healthcare workers in a clinical study to test the theory.

    Recruitment to the COPCOV trial had been paused amid concerns about side-effects raised by other research that has since been discredited.

    That work looked at treating Covid-19.

    It concluded the drug was not beneficial and increased the risk of irregular heart rhythms and death. That publication led to the WHO suspending its coronavirus treatment trials of the anti-malaria drug.

    Concerns were raised about the data and then some of the study’s authors said they could no longer stand by their publication in The Lancet as the healthcare firm Surgisphere that was involved in the work would not allow an independent review.

    The New England Journal of Medicine retracted another paper that had data from Surgisphere.

    The cheap and widely available drug has been safely used to prevent malaria infection for years.

    What progress are we making on coronavirus treatments?
    What do we know about hydroxychloroquine?
    Although studies suggest hydroxychloroquine is not a life-saver for people who are already ill with coronavirus , researchers are keen to continue exploring whether it might prevent infections.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/health-53233070

    Thank goodness. Too bad they had to pause the study while the ultimately “discredited” garbage took center stage.

    BuDuh (60fe01)

  87. Republican party’s problem 10% never trumpers, 50% will vote for anyone with “R” next to his name, 40% trumpkins. Who will punish never trumpers and will purge them in primaries as the tea party did in 2010 and 2014.

    asset (c02f3a)

  88. This is just the price we pay for not being a police state like Europe.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  89. “This is just the price we pay for not being a police state like Europe.”

    The United States has the highest incarceration rate in the world. We are a police state, you just agree with it.

    Davethulhu (5612ad)

  90. @89 The electorate will not support the conservative libertarian anti-tax view about shrinking government to the point you can drown it in a bath tub. Substanial government is needed now. The voters want leaders who say wear a mask or go to jail not small government libertarian conservatism. What would this country look like today with out even the limited response the trump administration and republican senate gave.

    asset (c02f3a)

  91. The United States has the highest incarceration rate in the world. We are a police state, you just agree with it.

    A “police state” is one that micromanages its citizens, has police, or police-cameras everywhwre and police have little restraints on search & seizure. We are far better in that regard than most countries. Our people expect civil liberties and get their backs up when they are infringed. This part of the culture is, of course, at odds with best practices regarding Covid-19, but none of us want the regimented society that would be most likely to stop such a disease.

    Or at least most of don’t. Don’t want to speak for Mr ‘Thulhu.

    That we have a lot of people in prison is due to the drug war — a separate issue — and the fact that our citizens tend to range towards more violence.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  92. Substanial government is needed now. The voters want leaders who say wear a mask or go to jail not small government libertarian conservatism.

    My attitude is feel free not to wear a m,ask — I think of it as evolution in action. Come near me in a public place without a mask and I will call you a fukwit, as in “GET AWAY FROM ME YOU FUKWIT!!” It’s called peer-pressure.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  93. I love it that people are blaming the recent surge in the virus on Trump, but these folks would blame earthquakes on Trump too.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  94. But, we need to learn from them because they’re kicking ass. Let’s ask them how they managed to construct a border wall they call “ocean”, have a handful of ports of entry, and avoid mass BLM protests and rioting, and be sure to take plenty of notes.

    beer ‘n pretzels (906ea1) — 7/13/2020 @ 10:15 pm

    We don’t need to construct an ocean. In fact, there is a hundred or thousand times more ocean between us and China than between Taiwan and China.

    Yes, we have more ports of entry, but we could have closed them to all foreigners, and imposed quarantine, testing, and tracing on every returning citizen or permanent resident, similar to what Taiwan did.

    The BLM protests are a thornier matter. I don’t know how those could have been stopped. However, even before the protests, Covid deaths in the U.S. were ridiculously high compared to more competent countries.

    norcal (a5428a)

  95. Why don’t you chinese, biden rump kissing trolls move?

    mg (8cbc69)

  96. I love it that people are blaming the recent surge in the virus on Trump, but these folks would blame earthquakes on Trump too.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/14/2020 @ 12:55 am

    1. Trump has made a lot of mistakes in dealing with CV that are worthy of criticism. His weak leadership and out right opposition to things that would help fight CV likely helped set up FL & TX.
    2. Presidents get credit/blame for things that happen in their term even when they had nothing to do with it.

    Time123 (457a1d)

  97. Trump has had a lot to do with the spread of the coronavirus in the United States, from the beginning, and at every level. From closing his eyes in order to make a yuge trade deal with Xi Jinping, to calling it a Democrat media hoax to bring down the economy and hurt his chances of reelection, to appointing his worthless son-in-law to be in charge of resources, to sabotaging his own-appointed experts at every turn, to actively encouraging his army of morons to disregard and violate sensible precautions. He should be tried for mass murder.

    nk (1d9030)

  98. What the experts are saying versus the Trump-sniffing, science-illiterate hack site. The key word is to view these studies with caution. The same would apply to some study in India, a country that is also led by an anti-science ignoramus. The only reason this is still being pursued is that we have a con man president who tried to sell it like a vitamin product without scientific support, and his loyal sycophants fell in line and head-nodded right along and backfilled his bullsh*t.

    Paul Montagu (52bb2d)

  99. On the bright side, multiple murderer Daniel Lewis Lee was finally put to death. Now he won’t have to worry about catching corona.

    The 4 leftist hacks tried to spare his life, but have no interest in sparing innocent babies. Shows you where their priorities are.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  100. Cuimo tried to mislead people when he said that if health official lied he would fire him, so if Trump doesn’t trust Fauci he should fire him.

    https://nypost.com/2020/07/13/cuomo-says-trumps-coronavirus-response-worse-than-watergate

    “Trump’s COVID scandal makes Nixon’s Watergate look innocent,” Cuomo said during a news conference in Manhattan.

    “No one died in the Watergate scandal. Thousands of people are going to die in this COVID scandal and that is all the difference in the world.”

    Cuomo also alluded to recent events in suggesting that if Trump doesn’t believe Dr. Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and a key member of his White House coronavirus task force, he should fire him.

    “The president now says his own health officials are lying about the virus,” Cuomo said. “You know what I would do if I believed my own health commissioner was lying? I would fire him.”

    Donald Trump can’t, Fauci is civil service. He could only be fired for cause. He could be removed from the coronovirus task force, but its importance anyway has been downgraded from what it was earlier this year.

    And Andrew Cuomo knows that because he is a lawyer familiar with federal bureaucratic rules, having once held a Cabinet post, and he and Fauci are in regular contact and even are friends now, according to the New York Times.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/13/us/politics/fauci-trump-coronavirus.html

    In the early days of the outbreak, Dr. Fauci, who typically sleeps only about five hours a night, lived mostly anonymously, taking the Washington Metro to the White House and Capitol Hill to brief lawmakers. He still spends late nights in his home office fielding calls from his boss, Dr. Francis Collins, the N.I.H. director, and from politicians like Andrew M. Cuomo, the governor of New York and a close friend.

    Here’s Cuomo talking about how often he calls Dr. Fauci, so much so that he calls him a friend.

    https://www.facebook.com/msnbc/videos/ny-gov-cuomo-on-dr-fauci/532425920748615

    Apparently Governor Cuomo talked to Fauci about his worries about members of his own family.

    Sammy Finkelman (c54485)

  101. the bastard, was well bribed by the hospital association, and he delivered the patients back to the nursing homes, and then retroactively absolved them of blame,

    narciso (7404b5)

  102. The White House gave to reporters an anonymously authored list of things about which Fauci had been wrong. Maybe, in part, to show he did listen to the experts. The Washington Post released it, in a manner calculated to discredit it use.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/07/13/white-houses-maligning-anthony-fauci-annotated

    Below, we look at the Fauci quotes highlighted in the White House document, comparing them to 1) what was known at the time, 2) what the White House omitted from his comments and 3) what Trump has said.

    The Washington Post claims some caveats were left out; Fauci is not at fault for being wrong, and you can blame China; Fauci was not out on a limb; Trump didn’t want to listen to people who said things could get worse; Fauci sometimes contradicted some thing Trump was saying; and Trump continued to say similar things to what Fauci had said past the time when Fauci did.

    Sammy Finkelman (c54485)

  103. 104. narciso (7404b5) — 7/14/2020 @ 7:31 am

    the bastard, was well bribed by the hospital association, and he delivered the patients back to the nursing homes, and then retroactively absolved them of blame,

    Maybe by nursing home operators.

    I think this was all about the state budget (which mght have a connection to political favors, as a forced cutback miht force him to eliminate some spending or raise taxes.)

    It was reasonable to let hospitals discharge people who didn’t need to be in the hospital, but what was not reasonable was not making sure they had a good place to go to. A place not just good for them but where they did not endanger other people.

    If some people couldn’t go any where, the state would have had to pay money to take care of them.

    The Federal government, or the family or insurance would pay for most of the cost of care of people who went to a nursing home or assisted living center, but if they didn’t go to a nursing home the government of the state of New York would be out a lot more money. I think that was the thinking.

    Sammy Finkelman (c54485)

  104. The White House was asked about Dr. Fuaci and gave the press an answer. And it included all the times Dr. F was wrong. That is supposedly, undercutting or “Destroying” the good Doctor. Who of course is a Saint with the brains of Einstein – per the Press.

    This is just they typical Press meme of setting up some Executive Branch underling as the *Noble Person* supporting Truth and Justice against HORRIBLE ORANGE MAN. If anything goes right, noble underling will be given the credit, if anything goes wrong its because Orange man interfered or obstructed noble underling. The Press has been trying for 4 months to get Dr. Fauci to say bad things about TRump, or accuse Trump of blocking Dr. F from DOING THE RIGHT THING. Its all lies, ita all fake, and its not news.

    rcocean (2e1c02)

  105. NYC is facing another type of flare up:

    In Wake Of Continued Gun Violence, Prominent Members Of Black Community Call On NYPD To Bring Back Anti-Crime Unit

    “Adams, a former cop, became the second member of the African-American community to call on the NYPD to stop the violence by re-instituting the Anti-Crime Unit — undercover cops whose job was to get guns off the street. The unit was disbanded during the anti-cop protest that shook the city.

    “I think that a total elimination is something we need to reevaluate,” said Adams. “Right now, bad guys are saying if you don’t see a blue and white you can do whatever you want.”

    Community activist Tony Herbert agrees.

    “The guns keep going off and now we have a 1-year-old and the blood is on the hands of the mayor and the state Legislature,” said Herbert.

    Mayor Bill de Blasio decried the shootings.

    “This is not anything we can allow in our city. It is heartbreaking. It’s heartbreaking for so many reasons and begins with the fact that there are just so many guns out there and that is a New York tragedy,” de Blasio said.

    But the mayor did not propose any new solutions to ending the gun violence. This, as shootings for the week went up 277%, 49 compared to 13 in 2019. The number of victims is up 253%, 60 compared to 17 in 2019.

    John Jay College professor Joe Giaclone, a former cop, said the city has been eroding the ability of the cops to get guns off the street for years. The latest, the disbanding of the Anti-Crime Unit. “The gun police are no longer out there,” said Giaclone. “The criminals are opportunists. You know that.”

    All this comes as the latest NYPD statistics show a huge drop in gun arrests during the last week.“
    __ _

    All Black Lives Matter
    _

    harkin (5af287)

  106. I love it that people are blaming the recent surge in the virus on Trump, but these folks would blame earthquakes on Trump too.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/14/2020 @ 12:55 am

    I don’t love it, but I do understand it. Unlike earthquakes, leadership matters a lot in a crisis like this. All of Trump’s efforts to win re-election have led to bizarre and destabilizing efforts like “LIBERATE MICHIGAN”, the fight about masks, the dismissing of the seriousness of the disease “no more than 15 then it disappears”. Some of the anti police protests were bound to happen no matter who was president. The George Floyd video is so bad that there was no way to prevent outrage. But there was a way to make the outrage louder, and Trump found it with this goon squad bible photo op. The whole world watched us gas that Australian lady. Now he’s trying to discredit the experts, simply because of ego. Plenty of Trump fans want to spread the virus, to lead to ‘herd immunity’, and are knowingly making things worse, even though this is a preposterous way to bring the economy back by November.

    Trump is a terrible leader in this crisis. It’s not Trump’s fault the crisis happened. It’s Trump’s fault that Trump handled it so incredibly poorly.

    Dustin (724986)

  107. Off topic: You should go read Jonah Goldberg’s column on the Cancel Culture and the Constituion. Did you know the Right hates the Constitution even more them the Left? And that Trump’s 4th of July Speech was a bad thing? That’s what Goldberg thinks. Can we please stop calling the Dispatch Boys “Conservatives” even in jest? Both Jonah and French are Liberals who are defacto BIden supporters. They might deny it, and say they are neutral, but they attack Trump 10x more than BIden. In fact, their attacks on Biden are always coupled with an attack on TRump, but Trump is usually attacked on a stand alone basis.

    rcocean (2e1c02)

  108. I read somewhere that people in swing states, aka WIns, Penn, Michagan are blaming Trump for CV-19. Hello? Blame your Democrat Governors. I’m beginning to think the American people are too stupid to live, and deserve Joe Biden and his socialist gang.

    rcocean (2e1c02)

  109. I fully expect Gov. Newsome to get re-elected in a landslide, since Californians are morons.

    rcocean (2e1c02)

  110. https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/07/j-p-sears-for-surgeon-general.php

    The thing is, I know the real reason for most of these absurd rules.

    It’s 6 feet because of along ago study about flu, and the assumption only big droplets transmit it – and cleaning surfaces is because they need to explain transmission at a distance if it isn’t spread through the air; people don’t need masks in a sitting position in a restaurant because if it was required people wouldn’t be able to eat; and they have people stay indoors to limit contact between different people so ignore to some degree the effect of ultraviolet light, Vitamin D and air circulation.

    Sammy Finkelman (c54485)

  111. I read somewhere that people in swing states, aka WIns, Penn, Michagan are blaming Trump for CV-19.

    Good.

    Dustin (724986)

  112. 31. Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 7/13/2020 @ 4:46 pm

    Their agenda is less dead people.

    Their agenda is saying that they are always right because they are experts, and everyone should listen to them unquestionably, and all old advice remains operative till they say so.

    It takes careful preparation for anyone to say anything different, and until then whatever they said remains official. When they reverse themselves, they will say they didn’t have any knowledge it was wrong until they did.

    They also support vaccines and don;t want anyone to take any shortcuts. Like off label dru use or monoclonal antibodies.

    Sammy Finkelman (c54485)

  113. Interesting, that saying “I found little that was objectionable in the portions that were purely historical” regarding Trump’s July 4th is translated as a “bad thing”, and that anyone who didn’t praise it is not a real conservative. Delusional.

    Paul Montagu (52bb2d)

  114. @116 so if we don’t listen to experts, who do we listen to? You seem to be saying that anyone who gains experience in any field is just doing it to gain authority, which sounds pretty crazy. I personally gained expertise in my field because I like the work and being good at it results in more money for me. Did Dr.Fauci spend 40 years studying his field because he was hoping one day he’d get the chance to be on TV and lie to everyone?

    Manotaur (e632fa)

  115. I read somewhere that people in swing states, aka Wis, Penn, Michigan are blaming Trump for CV-19.

    I don’t think they are blaming him for the disease; they are blaming him for being too optimistic, like Jimmy Carter with the hostages in Iran, who always were going to be released soon.

    For all that, Democrats should not be too content.

    I think the disease will have a “miracle cure” by late September or October, because for it not to happen someone wold really have to obstruct progress more than it is being obstructed right now.

    https://cen.acs.org/pharmaceuticals/drug-development/COVID-19-vaccines-antibodies-advance/98/i24

    https://www.livemint.com/science/health/lilly-s-covid-19-drug-could-be-ready-for-use-as-soon-as-sept-says-chief-scientist-11592911375847.html

    I think the disease will go away in the United States (not the world) in October.

    That will be the October Surprise, but it won’t be enough, by itself, for Trump to win the election. For that to happen, the Democrats have to act really, really stupid, which is a distinct possibility.

    Sammy Finkelman (c54485)

  116. 119

    I think the disease will have a “miracle cure” by late September or October, because for it not to happen someone wold really have to obstruct progress more than it is being obstructed right now.

    Are you basing that off any sort of expert knowledge, or are you just pulling this out of thin air? What information did you receive that would make you come to this conclusion?

    Manotaur (e632fa)

  117. when do you suggest public health authorities, are held liable, are ferguson fauci murray infallible, then when and how,

    narciso (7404b5)

  118. @121 The same way everyone is held accountable. They are employees of the US Government and if their advice is wrong they should be fired. Instead, they are kept on staff and publicly undermined by people with no idea what to do. Shit or get of the pot, if you don’t like Fauci fire him. Stop the mean girl attacks.

    Manotaur (e632fa)

  119. Manotaur,

    he quoted two links for his answer in the exact post you just raised questions about. I believe the phase, “asked and answered” applies.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  120. 121

    From the quoted article:

    “Coronavirus vaccines being developed and tested at unprecedented speed are not likely to be ready before the end of the year at the earliest.”

    doesn’t sound like a miracle cure available in September

    Manotaur (e632fa)

  121. @121 Disregard that, I misread and quoted out of context.

    Manotaur (e632fa)

  122. @121 Looks promising. I wouldn’t go as far as to say I believe a miracle cure is coming, but it’s good that people are doing research and are optimistic that a cure may be ready before year end. Despite what people may think I do not want Covid-19 to ravish the country to “stick it” to Trump, and would welcome a cure.

    I jumped the gun on my second comment as I was a bit taken aback by the disregarding of “expert” opinions and I apologize for that. I would like to point out that the people doing Covid-19 research are also experts, and likely aren’t part of a vast anti-Trump conspiracy.

    Manotaur (e632fa)

  123. 118. Manotaur (e632fa) — 7/14/2020 @ 8:50 am

    @116 so if we don’t listen to experts, who do we listen to?

    YHou listen to a medley of experts, but not exclusively officially sanctioned experts, and to be officially sanctioned is a little strike against their credibility, because they don’t have to be right to maintain their position. (but sometimes the official expert might be the best)

    True experts:

    1) Don’t insist that because they are “experts” they need to be listened to, but express some uncertainty about some of their conclusions.

    2) Explain, or attempt to explain, at least to more educated persons, why they think what they do.

    3) Do not agree with all other experts on everything.

    Sammy Finkelman (c54485)

  124. You seem to be saying that anyone who gains experience in any field is just doing it to gain authority,

    No, I say anybody who gains credentials is just doing it to gain authority, which I think nobody an deny. And the credentialing process is not the same as the experience and accuracy process. And over time, it will become corrupted.

    In 2008, the people authorized to rate bonds were not accurate, for instance. They didn’t have to be, and they didn’t have to earn respect, ecaue they were guaranteed their positions.

    Sammy Finkelman (c54485)

  125. Did Dr.Fauci spend 40 years studying his field because he was hoping one day he’d get the chance to be on TV and lie to everyone?

    No. (Although he did verge on lying when he said earlier this year masks should not be used.)

    He’s just wrong when he’s wrong, that’s all, and he has some of the biases against new drugs and approaches and against discarding old advice and approaches that are built into the system.

    That was true of him back in the 1980s also.

    But Dr Fauci does not insist he must be treated as always right. That sort of thing is done on his and others’ behalf.

    Yes.Trump iparticularly Trump maybe) is less likely to be right, in general, but his throwing out ideas is a check on the experts (who are, in turn, a check on him) and he should be doing more of that and not discouraged from doing that. He might push something that is right.

    Sammy Finkelman (c54485)

  126. what is their track record, ferguson and fauci’s was not good, the latter over a longer period of time,

    narciso (7404b5)

  127. @127

    I think the disconnect here is in the instances Fauci has been incorrect, which other experts were ignored? What did they suggust, and were they right? The White House created a “mean girl” list of times Fauci was wrong, but they haven’t cited any examples of what they should have been doing instead, or made clear who’s opinion they’re listening to going forward. It seems to be alot of dumping on expert opinions with no alternative options.

    This is amplified when the President disregards the opinions of the people he’s hired (in the CDC) regarding school openings, and has the opinion the the entire disease is just a plot to beat him in an election. I don’t know that there are many people who agree with that.

    I am genuinely curious what you think the solution to the current pandemic is if not keeping away from large gatherings and wearing masks. Do you have any conflicting experts that make a case? I’m not being sarcastic, I’m open to changing my opinion on new evidence.

    Manotaur (e632fa)

  128. @128 Credentials are generally a necessary hoop that has to be jumped through, and are done because they need to be, not because you want them. I would also argue that the Bond rating agencies were giving inaccurate ratings not because they wanted respect, but because the people who were paying them to rate the bonds would go somewhere else if they received bad ratings. The bond issuers and rating agencies have a very corrupt dynamic.

    I will grant that some people do gain certifications or positions to flaunt them, but I think (hope) that percentage is lower than you do.

    Manotaur (e632fa)

  129. 129

    The problem with Trumps opinions are that crafts them with very little thought, and once they come from his mouth he will not budge of them regardless of how wrong they are.

    I feel Trump’s Championing of Hydroxychloroquine was a very bad thing for it getting a fair shot. Anything Trump takes a position on becomes immediately politicized, with his supporters deciding it’s a miracle cure and his detractors declaring it a deadly poison. After that, there’s no way to conduct a fair trail as everything just becomes ammo for one side or the other. This is no accident either, Trump fans this flame relentlessly, framing everything (even this pandamic) in us vs them terms.

    Manotaur (e632fa)

  130. 122. NJRob (eb56c3) — 7/14/2020 @ 9:04 am

    he quoted two links for his answer in the exact post you just raised questions about. I believe the phase, “asked and answered” applies.

    Well, the links are missing the claim that that is cure, and are understated (but they have to be) but that’s somewhere too.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-04-20/antibody-treatments-may-be-the-best-hope-against-the-virus-until-a-vaccine

    ….Unlike existing medicines being tested on the virus—such as hydroxychloroquine, the malaria drug controversially touted by President Trump, and remdesivir, an antiviral compound originally developed by Gilead Sciences Inc. to fight Ebola—antibody drugs are being designed specifically to disable the new virus where it’s most vulnerable.

    They’re taking advantage of sophisticated technologies developed over the past two decades to create exquisitely targeted medicines. If they work, the therapies could be used in two crucial ways: to treat those already infected and, in the absence of a vaccine, as a short-term prophylactic for those at high risk.

    Normally it can take five or more years to develop a drug and move it into human trials. No one wants to wait that long. AstraZeneca, Vir Biotechnology, and Eli Lilly and its biotech partner, AbCellera Biologics, as well as several academic labs, are hoping to start human trials by the end of summer. If all goes well, antibody treatments for those most in need could be available by fall..

    ….Scott Gottlieb, former head of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, also sounded optimistic in a recent interview with Bloomberg News, saying, “If I had to place one bet on a drug that could be available by the summer and could have activity and could have a profile that I think could change the contours of the infection, it would be the antibody approaches.”

    I shold e ale to find something better.

    This is not it:

    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2767383

    Neutralizing monoclonal antibodies are often characterized by their potency in vitro in a variety of cell culture assays, which is an important attribute used to help select monoclonal antibodies with potential for clinical use.

    The big problem will be getting enough supply of the antibodies.

    https://twitter.com/scottgottliebmd/status/1247359033549508609?lang=en

    Scott Gottlieb, MD
    @ScottGottliebMD
    ·
    Apr 6

    If antibody drugs are going to provide perhaps our best shot at mitigating future #COVID19 risk and serving as a bridge to a vaccine; manufacturing these drugs at scale is going to be the obstacle. We can get a jump start on this now. Congress provided the funding to do so 2/n

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/antibodies-can-be-the-bridge-to-a-vaccine-11593969735

    The problem is the limited capacity to make enough product to meet demand during a pandemic. A recent report by the Duke Margolis Center for Health Policy estimates that it would take at least 25 million doses of antibodies to give the therapies to symptomatic people and their close contacts over the next year, assuming the number of cases holds roughly steady to the levels of mid-June. That’s about half as many antibodies as the U.S. produces each year in supplying the 100 different antibody products approved for a range of other diseases.

    Operation Warp Speed focuses on finding and making vaccines. The government should set up a parallel effort for antibodies, as even a limited supply could save many lives. Government should work with drugmakers to free up domestic manufacturing plants to start making more of these antibody drugs even before the FDA approves them. That way America can have a large supply on hand if one or more prove safe and effective. To avoid disruption to the supply of other antibody drugs, companies could be asked to quickly make and stockpile extra doses of their existing medicines.

    Ultimately, the hope is crushing Covid-19 with a vaccine. But the epidemics raging in the Sun Belt suggest that the virus’s wrath will be a threat through the summer, fall and winter. Combining public-health measures, such as face masks and distancing, with technology like monoclonal antibodies is the best hope for faster progress.

    Sammy Finkelman (c54485)

  131. Are you basing that off any sort of expert knowledge, or are you just pulling this out of thin air? What information did you receive that would make you come to this conclusion?

    One of the problems is this miracle vaccine timing is that on average a vaccine being developed is approved never, 90% of the time.

    If you only limit it to vaccines that have been approved, the record for fastest is 4 years. The average is 16 years. December 31st of 2020 is less than 4 years, much less than 16 years in the future.

    The hope is that the work on SARS and MERS vaccines that were orphaned years ago can be repurposed. Like all things hope isn’t a plan, and hoping that not only one of those works, but also doesn’t grow third eyes, and is approved within a year is hoping for low probability events stacking together to get the least likely outcome.

    The plan should be to limit transmission as long as possible doing the practical things with stacking of highly likely events with highly likely actions that limit transmission. Or hope for miracles.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  132. 130. Manotaur (e632fa) — 7/14/2020 @ 9:30 am

    I am genuinely curious what you think the solution to the current pandemic is if not keeping away from large gatherings and wearing masks.

    First: Keeping away from large gatherings and wearing masks is not a solution.
    If that was all, it would have to be maintained forever.

    It’s worth doing because as time goes on, the treatment of the disease probably gets better, but not all of the things are important. What counts is avoiding situations where the amount of virus breathed in is high.

    That means indoors (where air circulation doesn’t dilute it and may concentrate it, and there may be little ventilation, and where you have little or no ultraviolet light from the sun to kill the virus) crowded places outdoors (where it is possible to get near someone infected for some time) and places where the same people meet day after day so that one case there can become 2, or 10 of them.

    But there may be occasional isolated transmissions besides that.

    It also should be understood that when we talk about prevention through social distancing, we are talking about 1 in a 1000 chances – there is some value if everyone does it, but it is not particularly valuable in any individual case. It stops the spread because thousands and thousands of people are taking p;recautions.

    What counts is avoiding situtaaion where the amount of virus breathed in is high.

    Do you have any conflicting experts that make a case? I’m not being sarcastic, I’m open to changing my opinion on new evidence.

    They all want to be extremely cautious, but the way out is monoclonal antibodies.

    Sammy Finkelman (c54485)

  133. Vaccines can be a problem, but a new type of vaccine may be safer. The antibodies can e manufactured and approved quicker but give only temporary help/

    Sammy Finkelman (c54485)

  134. 136

    First: Keeping away from large gatherings and wearing masks is not a solution

    Fair enough, though I think we agree that it is part of the solution, the other part is developing a drug that will make the social distancing unnecessary.

    It seems like maybe the main problem with Dr. Fauci is that instead of being treated as an expert advisor he’s being held up as a Trump opponent which is causing Trump to lash out and his opponents to dig in and resulting in reasonable suggestions being treated as either holy edicts or damnable lies.

    Manotaur (e632fa)

  135. Anything Trump takes a position on becomes immediately politicized, with his supporters deciding it’s a miracle cure and his detractors declaring it a deadly poison. After that, there’s no way to conduct a fair trail as everything just becomes ammo for one side or the other. This is no accident either, Trump fans this flame relentlessly, framing everything (even this pandamic) in us vs them terms.

    Manotaur (e632fa) — 7/14/2020 @ 9:42 am

    Well put, and true.

    I’ll take it one step further. I believe that if Trump had come out with very aggressive measures to fight the virus (a la Taiwan), he would have been accused of being a fascist. Nonetheless, he would now be sitting in the catbird seat, and would look like the genius he claims to be.

    norcal (a5428a)

  136. How many businesses do you want to shut down forever? How many lives ruined and lost? The record for a vaccine in 4 years. Are you willing to sacrifice that many people for the next 4 years? Turn our nation into a full socialist state where 90% income is taxed to support the 25% that won’t ever hold a job?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  137. Dont know if true or not…but as the original poster says, karma moves at lightening speed: http://m.facebook.com/beingliberal.org/photos/a.180479986274/10157669595176275/?type=3&source=48

    urbanleftbehind (ede0b9)

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