Patterico's Pontifications

12/14/2018

Rudy: Hey, Nobody Got Killed or Robbed with This Campaign Finance Violation Stuff

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:15 am



You tell ’em, Rudy.

Trump insists he is innocent of any related crimes because he never explicitly asked for Cohen or AMI to violate campaign finance law by sitting on stories of his extra-marital affairs. And the president’s current lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, contends that the scandal is overblown entirely.

“Nobody got killed, nobody got robbed… This was not a big crime,” Giuliani told The Daily Beast on Wednesday. He added, sardonically, “I think in two weeks they’ll start with parking tickets that haven’t been paid.”

I know, right? Next thing they’ll target urinating in public.

Here’s what I would say to Rudy:

This is what broken windows theory is all about. I mean, if some guy is urinating in public, we got a problem. Now, you can do one of two things. You can ignore the problem and say: “Gee, I’m such a big fuzzy-headed liberal that I’m gonna walk away from it and we’re gonna make believe there’s no problem.” … You’ve got to pay attention to somebody urinating on the street. It may be a minor thing, it may be a serious thing, but you cannot ignore it. You have to deal with it. It is against the law to urinate in public.

That’s what I would say.

Oh wait.

Someone already said that.

Good old Rudy.

Ken White and Josh Barro have a weekly podcast titled “All the President’s Lawyers” — which I listen to religiously, and you should too — and they have this sound clip as part of their opening. I can’t hear any story about Rudy without wanting to share it, I love it so:

[Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.]

274 Responses to “Rudy: Hey, Nobody Got Killed or Robbed with This Campaign Finance Violation Stuff”

  1. If this was a Rockford files episode, the question would come up who paid her, much more than 850 k to keep coming up like a bad penny, perhaps it was a package deal with vitter.

    Narciso (7d6e72)

  2. What is the going rate for a campaign violation? Obama paid a fine for his failure to report $2 million. I guess it is only different because Trump.

    AZ Bob (885937)

  3. R.I.P. Nancy Wilson, pop & jazz singing legend

    Icy (c04c22)

  4. Heh… Giulani is going to out Leroy Jenkin everyone on this… isn’t he?

    whembly (51f28e)

  5. You can have your process “crimes”. What will interest me is if/when they turn the spotlight on the deeds of Clinton, Steele, Arnold Stang Rosenstein, McCabe, Comey, Ohr, Strzok, Page, Mueller, etc..

    BTW… where’s Muh Russian Collusion?!?!

    Colonel Haiku (2184e5)

  6. Those are not the droids we’re looking for coronello.

    Narciso (7d6e72)

  7. Speaking of people dying:

    NYT Climate
    @nytclimate
    Three years after the Paris climate agreement, the world is not on track to meet its targets. Greenhouse gas emissions are rising. And the world’s 7.6 billion people face mounting risks from more severe and more frequent floods, droughts and wildfires.
    __ _

    Stephen Miller
    @redsteeze
    But they signed it
    __ _

    Steve Spiros
    @vampireshangout
    And which country is actually reducing emissions? It can’t be the one who withdrew from the meaningless Paris agreement, right?
    __ _

    FA in HFX
    @AkulFred
    This makes no sense. They have a piece of paper that says they’re going to save the world.
    __ _

    Gregory Alan
    @rightgreg61
    So, your saying a non binding agreement that specifically exempts the largest emitter from doing anything has failed to do anything. I’m shocked.
    __ _

    Steve Spiros
    @vampireshangout
    “There is no teeth to the agreement.” this is exactly the point I’m trying to make. Why would we send billions of taxpayer dollars to countries that have no intention of reducing emissions? We can reduce emissions without some “agreement” where leaders take a photo and do nothing

    harkin (1161c2)

  8. lol at anyone who thinks the Bimbo payments comprise the only Trump campaign violation. ’tis but the beginning.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-inauguration-spending-under-criminal-investigation-by-federal-prosecutors-11544736455

    The extent to which the Trump faithful are willing to stick their fingers in their ears and sing “la la la” is quite entertaining.

    JRH (fe281f)

  9. Just more abuse of power, hall monitor Rosenstein approved this, when Clinton was trading campaign contributions for Chinese technology transfers Starr wasnt allowed to touch that.

    Narciso (7d6e72)

  10. the trashy filth at the FBI are reduced to making up crimes KGB-style

    they have no credibility anymore

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  11. I have a long memory and am not going to focus on the big shiny squirrel they out in front of me,

    Narciso (7d6e72)

  12. Andrew McCabe and his dirty wife Jill did campaign finance violations all up in it by fundraising off his position at the sleazy FBI

    these were dirty FBI campaign finance violations

    and the dirty FBI didn’t care (so corrupt)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  13. You can ignore the problem and say: “Gee, I’m such a big fuzzy-headed liberal that I’m gonna walk away from it and we’re gonna make believe there’s no problem.”

    Except that’s not what the fuzzy-headed liberal says. He says “Gee, did the perp have a D or R after his/her name?”

    Munroe (e8c09b)

  14. Rudy . . . is pathetic.

    Icy (c04c22)

  15. 8… lol at anyone who doesn’t know so-called campaign violations are normally handled with fines.

    Colonel Haiku (2184e5)

  16. butt boy obama did much more serious campaign violations and guess what the filthy scummy men and women at the fbi did about that

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  17. butt boy obama did much more serious campaign violations and guess what the filthy scummy men and women at the fbi did about that

    Let’s see how reality stacks up to this idiotic Trumpista lie.

    During a hearing in a Manhattan federal courthouse, Cohen stated under oath that he committed these election law crimes “at the direction of” Donald Trump while the latter was a candidate for president, leading some commentators to classify Trump an “unindicted co-conspirator” (although he has not yet been charged in any crime). One defense against such charges, articulated by President Trump on Twitter the following morning, was that Barack Obama also committed campaign finance violations that were just as bad in 2008, but he was let off much easier:

    Michael Cohen plead guilty to two counts of campaign finance violations that are not a crime. President Obama had a big campaign finance violation and it was easily settled!

    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 22, 2018

    In this tweet, President Trump attempted to compare the criminal charges brought against Cohen by the U.S. Justice Department with a series of civil violations brought against the Obama campaign by the Federal Election Commission (FEC), a separate, independent body which cannot prosecute criminal cases.

    While it is true that President Obama’s 2008 campaign was fined a significant amount of money by the FEC, those fines covered civil violations that were different than the criminal infractions admitted to by Cohen.

    In late 2012, President Barack Obama’s 2008 campaign was fined $375,000 by the FEC for reporting violations. The major issue concerned the timely documentation of donations made in the 20 days prior to the election, a window of time during which the FEC requires official notice of contributions exceeding $1,000 to be submitted no more than 48 hours after receipt of those donations:

    The major sticking point for the FEC appeared to be a series of missing 48-hour notices for nearly 1,300 contributions totaling more than $1.8 million — an issue that lawyers familiar with the commission’s work say the FEC takes seriously. The notices must be filed on contributions of $1,000 or more that are received within the 20-day window of Election Day …

    The document outlined other violations, such as erroneous contribution dates on some campaign reports. The Obama campaign was also late returning some contributions that exceeded the legal limit.

    While the fines leveled against the Obama campaign were among the largest in the FEC’s history, so too was the amount of money raised by that campaign. Speaking to Politico in 2013, Republican election lawyer Jason Torchinsky said that “$375,000 is a huge fine” but added that the Obama campaign was also the first billion-dollar presidential campaign in history, making the fine “proportionally … not out of line.” In the same story, former FEC commissioner Michael Toner said “that the infractions were relatively minor, given the scope of the campaign.”

    Speaking to us by phone, Ann Ravel, a former FEC commissioner who served from 2013 to 2017, told us that “the FEC does not have criminal capabilities. All of the criminal cases have to be prosecuted by the Department of Justice.” For a criminal violation of election law to be enforced by the Department of Justice (which was the case in the Cohen matter), she told us, the violation must be considered both intentional and serious:

    Not only does the matter have to be something that is purposeful, but it [also has to be] a major violation. People often have reporting violations [and] that’s what the Obama ones were determined to be.

    In [Cohen’s] case, what [the Department of Justice] determined is that there was a criminal intent to hide a campaign contribution … and so, it falls within a criminal violation, as opposed to just a civil one to be enforced by the FEC.

    From a legal standpoint, the Department of Justice has already proved that Cohen intentionally acted to facilitate and hide an illegal contribution for the purpose of affecting the election, because that is what he formally admitted to. In a document produced by the Southern District of New York whose accuracy was affirmed by Cohen under oath, Cohen agreed that he:

    Knowingly and willfully caused a corporation to make a contribution and expenditure … to ensure that Woman-1 did not publicize damaging allegations before the 2016 presidential election and thereby influence that election.

    [and]

    Knowingly and willfully made and caused to be made a contribution … in excess of the limits of the Election Act … to Woman-2 to ensure that she did not publicize damaging allegations before the 2016 presidential election and thereby influence that election.

    The infractions committed by the 2008 Obama campaign were not alleged to be intentional, and the FEC did not consider the campaign’s documentation lapses as rising to the level of a “serious” offense prosecutable by the Department of Justice.

    “There are always reporting violations in campaigns. Many of them minor, many of them substantive,” Ravel told us. “But in this case … what was admitted to by Cohen was that there was a clear intent to use campaign money for the purpose of keeping the individuals quiet right before the election for campaign purposes.”

    Trump’s assertion that Cohen broke no law is in conflict with his own Justice Department, who secured multiple guilty pleas related to the commission of violations of federal election laws. Specifically, Cohen admitted to intentionally violating portions of the following federal election laws on behalf of Donald Trump:

    52 U.S. Code § 30116 – Limitations on contributions and expenditures
    52 U.S. Code § 30118 – Contributions or expenditures by national banks, corporations, or labor organizations

    Obama’s civil FEC infractions, while they resulted in a large fine, are legally distinct from what Cohen pled guilty to, which is the intentional commission of felonies intended to affect the outcome of a federal election.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (ab0951)

  18. Ride a painted pony
    Let the Demmie meme spin

    nk (dbc370)

  19. I believe this administration poses many grave dangers to the rule of law and justice. One of them is that, in our well-earned contempt, we’ll embrace the worst practices law enforcement has to offer, so long as they are pointed at people we hate. – Ken White

    too late Mr. White

    that ship has sailed

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  20. Sad to watch Crazy Eyes Rudy grasping. As I recall, no one got killed or robbed during Watergate or the Clinton impeachment mess.

    Paul Montagu (8d207c)

  21. you know who got killed is seth rich and shoggy doggy

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  22. nk (dbc370) — 12/14/2018 @ 9:07 am

    Isn’t it time for today’s installment of The Thin Red Covfefe?

    Why yes, I believe it is.

    Dave (1bb933)

  23. Over the last decade republicans have continuously been assaulted by the press with no let up. As soon as conservative speech is illegal everything will be hunky-dory.

    mg (8cbc69)

  24. Just a few examples…

    Corruption: A new study suggests that President Obama’s campaign systematically pursued foreign contributions to fuel his run for the presidency, a violation of law. Is America’s democracy now for sale to the highest bidder?
    The Government Accountability Institute, which is headed by Stanford University Professor Peter Schweizer, used sophisticated Internet investigative tools — including something called “spidering” software — to determine how the web is being used to raise political funds.

    What it found should be of concern, since it suggests that many in Congress and, more importantly, the Obama campaign have systematically exploited loopholes in the law to raise millions of dollars overseas — a big chunk of it in the People’s Republic of China…

    Read it all…

    https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/obama-campaign-raises-illegal-cash-overseas/

    Barack Obama’s presidential campaign has been fined $375,000 by the Federal Election Commission for violating federal disclosure laws, Politico reports.

    An FEC audit of Obama for America’s 2008 records found the committee failed to disclose millions of dollars in contributions and dragged its feet in refunding millions more in excess contributions.

    The resulting fine, one of the largest ever handed down by the FEC, is the result of a failure to disclose or improperly disclosing thousands of contributions to Obama for America during the then-senator’s 2008 presidential run, documents show.

    The FEC says the Obama campaign failed to disclose the sources of 1,300 large donations, which together accounted for nearly $1.9 million. Election Commission rules state campaigns must report donations of $1,000 or more within 20 days of Election Day.

    Obama for America was also fined for “untimely resolution of excessive contributions,” according to the conciliation agreement, FEC says. The campaign accepted more than $1.3 million in contributions that came from donors who had already given $46,000—the maximum allowed by FEC rules. The campaign eventually refunded the excess cash but did not do so within the 60-day window allotted for resolving such cases, FEC said.

    https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/01/07/obama-campaign-fined-big-for-hiding-donors-keeping-illegal-donations?context=amp

    Colonel Haiku (2184e5)

  25. A Message to You, Rudy

    Stop your messing around (ah-ah-ah)
    Take the fight to teh leftwing (ah-ah-ah)
    Time you straighten them out (ah-ah-ah)
    Kick their FAT asses good (ah-ah-ah)

    Rudy
    A message to you, Rudy
    A message to you
    Stop your fooling around (ah-ah-ah)
    Time you straighten them out (ah-ah-ah)
    Better think of the future (ah-ah-ah)
    In a living Hell (ah-ah-ah)

    Rudy
    A message to you, Rudy
    A message to you
    Stop your messing around (ah-ah-ah)
    Better think of the future (ah-ah-ah)
    Time you straighten them out (ah-ah-ah)
    Do teh RICO on ‘em (ah-ah-ah)

    Rudy
    A message to you, Rudy
    A message to you, Rudy
    Oh, it’s a message to you, Rudy
    Yeah, it’s a message to you, Rudy

    Colonel Haiku (2184e5)

  26. The Thin Red Covfefe (continued)

    As soon as Mr. Trump hung up, I dialed my doctor.

    “Dr. Boombatz”, I said, “this is Michael Cohen. I’d like to see you at your clinic as soon as possible.”

    I could tell he was wondering what was wrong. “Michael, what’s wrong?”, he asked.

    “There’s nothing wrong, doctor”, I said. “It’s just that I’ll be meeting a p*rn actress cum stripper, and I want to make sure all my vaccinations are up to date.”

    “Oh, Michael”, he laughed, “you’re such a hypochondriac. Those girls are mostly alright in normal social circumstances. Just don’t get intimate with her, and you’ll be just fine.”

    “It’s not only her, doctor”, I explained. “I’m pretty sure her lawyer will be there too.”

    “Not a Hollywood lawyer, Michael!”

    “I’m afraid so, doctor.”

    “Oh”, said. “That’s different. Come in first thing tomorrow morning. And I’ll call the pharmacy right now to send over a rabies shot, too, and a snakebite antivenin kit to take with you.”

    nk (dbc370)

  27. #17

    From a legal standpoint, the Department of Justice has already proved that Cohen intentionally acted to facilitate and hide an illegal contribution for the purpose of affecting the election, because that is what he formally admitted to.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (ab0951) — 12/14/2018 @ 8:46 am

    That’s what Cohen pleaded to…

    That’s not the same as the DoJ proven that it was true. Cohen simply revoked his right to litigate that he illegally made in-kind campaign contributions as part of his plea agreement with the SDNY. As such, the outcome is not binding, as if the SDNY hypothetically charges Trump for this, he’ll litigate this by arguing that it was NOT a campaign contribution.

    whembly (51f28e)

  28. Mr. Giuliani is inviting people to imagine what it would be like if the the dirty FBI actually investigated a real crime someday

    it’s hard to imagine but that’s what makes it so funny

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  29. oops the (double word penalty)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  30. Mr. Cohen pledded and pleadered all up in it and President Trump just looked at him like do i know you

    you can tell one of these guys is enjoying the holiday season WAY more than the other one Mr. whembly

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  31. Hey all this campaign lawbreaking is definitely OK. I know because the Clintons went all in for it and no one seems to care at all.

    David Longfellow (8cba7a)

  32. How soon they forget the turnaround of NYC in the 90s and Rudy’s leadership in the aftermath of 9/11.

    Now he’s just another mook ripe for derision.

    Colonel Haiku (2184e5)

  33. @21. Actually, somebody did ‘die’ as part of Watergate; Dorothy Hunt was killed in a plane crash. At the time she was ferrying ‘hush money’ payment and in her purse amidst the wreckage was found thousands of dollars in cash.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  34. Good news though, Col.
    The democratic rag The Weak Knee Standard is toast.

    mg (8cbc69)

  35. Yep, I knew Kristol had gone rogue D-bag, but I had no idea as to the depth of his perfidy.

    Colonel Haiku (2184e5)

  36. hey rudi a 7 year girl died from dehydration in border patrol custody after begging them for a drink of water for 8 hours. and you say nobody has died.

    lany (1ed852)

  37. you have to stay hydrated or the head lice just burrow deeper

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  38. Well but you’re not going to charge they deliberately took that plane down, right it was a theme in James Grady’s ghosted novel city of shadow

    Narciso (7d6e72)

  39. stay hydrated, lany

    mg (8cbc69)

  40. I tremble for my country when I remember god is just! thomas jefferson. revenge is a dish best eaten cold. kleons.

    lany (1ed852)

  41. Donald Trump conspires with Michae Cohen and with David Pecker of the National Enquirer to get an illegal in kind campaign contribution (through them buying up negative stories – “capture and kill”) ….

    in August 2014, ten months before he announced for presdident?

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  42. 41… let’s face facts, perry. You are in perpetual trembling mode.

    Colonel Haiku (2184e5)

  43. Between the trembling, the feverdreams, the constant search for that pony in the pile of horseschiff… we got ourselves some unique personalities.

    Colonel Haiku (2184e5)

  44. This blog inches closer and closer to the Weekly Standard with each passing day. If they try to impeach him for anything other than Russia, GFY.

    Ryan (444932)

  45. it’s very near beer, coronello, odouls or possibly coors

    https://twitter.com/Techno_Fog/status/1073673870190637056?s=20

    narciso (d1f714)

  46. OT: Hello, this is Ted…

    Tillman (61f3c8)

  47. “Donald Trump conspires with Michae Cohen and with David Pecker of the National Enquirer to get an illegal in kind campaign contribution (through them buying up negative stories – “capture and kill”) ….

    in August 2014, ten months before he announced for presdident?”

    No. August 2015, 2 months after.

    JRH (fe281f)

  48. No. August 2015, 2 months after.

    Also, the later payoff/payback to Stormy in October of 2016. The 2015 one was the Playmate. You have to keep Trump’s hookers straight, it’s difficult with the sheer volume.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (53dc67)

  49. hookers are so funny

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  50. the logic would have been to do it before, but what is the proper protocol, recall how Michael kaus could get no one to even mention john Edwards’s affair with the raelle, in 2007, why was that?

    narciso (d1f714)

  51. One recalls new York magazine, insinuated an affair by rudy with one of his staffers, they had no evidence, to my memory they never apologized, I won’t name her you can find out her name on your own,
    and of course, there is the iseman allegation, that was fed to the times, by uber varmint john weaver, they did apologize in some token way.

    narciso (d1f714)

  52. So, Rudy – as long as an illegal immigrant doesn’t kill or rob anyone we should look the other way, right?

    Rudy?

    Dave (eaedaf)

  53. Broken windows theory, as applied up until January 20, 2017:

    “No reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case” — James Comey

    Munroe (84aad1)

  54. no dave, do you the check the cyclotron for stray debris or animals before you turn it on, so you don’t end up with the sandman from spiderman 3 (what raimi was thinking then, I have no idea)

    narciso (d1f714)

  55. this is what shipwrecked pointed out before he was banished to the phantom zone,

    narciso (d1f714)

  56. hey rudi a 7 year girl died from dehydration in border patrol custody after begging them for a drink of water for 8 hours. and you say nobody has died.
    lany (1ed852) — 12/14/2018 @ 12:19 pm

    — The urge to spew 💩 like this must truly be overwhelming for some people.

    Icy (c04c22)

  57. Munroe (84aad1) — 12/14/2018 @ 2:49 pm

    But she had unimpeachable character references!

    “I know Hillary and I think she’d make a great president” – Donald Trump

    Dave (eaedaf)

  58. no new taxes

    mg (8cbc69)

  59. mission still not accomplished

    mg (8cbc69)

  60. congress has ended its taxpayer funded sexual harrassment payoff program.

    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/congress-reaches-deal-ending-taxpayer-funded-sexual-harassment/story?id=59783415

    when do the prosecutions begin for these unreported campaign contributions?

    kaf (0ff60d)

  61. Kaubuki Theater: Mulvaney named ‘Acting Chief of Staff.’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  62. Issue last! Freddie-The-Beetle-Barnes and Billy-the-Kid-Kristol fold The Weekly Standard. This righty neocon trash rag was always red when read– did it ever turn profit?! Still, regardless of your POV, it’s always sad and worthy of pause when a media platform, left-center-or-right goes silent. This, most definitely, always makes Putin smile.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  63. @50. Humor takes the sting out of things, Mr. Feet; Johnny was always very jake.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  64. This, most definitely, always makes Putin smile.

    I’ll bet his poodle wags its tail, too.

    Dave (1bb933)

  65. the Egypt and Libyan episodes were not the standard’s finest moments

    https://www.conservativereview.com/news/lindsey-grahams-push-for-regime-change-in-saudi-arabia-is-a-dangerous-mistake/

    narciso (d1f714)

  66. Rudy, at times, can be such a drag for The Donald–

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBKu9OJ8Ltk

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  67. so who were you for disco, gary hart of which none other than walter Mondale said ‘where’s the beef’ the little duke in the tank helmet,

    https://amgreatness.com/2018/12/13/does-the-unfortunate-20th-century-foretell-a-worse-21st/

    narciso (d1f714)

  68. the endless fetishization of stupid dead shoggy doggy just tells you they’re hijacking his stupid corpse for a completely separate agenda

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  69. the problem is under the last administration, they not only broke the window, but stole all the presents, from arming two cartels, to putting a hammerlock on the tea party, surveilling every journalist on the ap roster, so turnabout is fair play under these conditions,

    narciso (d1f714)

  70. Has anyone in the Obama or Clinton Campaigns gone to jail for Campaign Finance violations?

    Nope.

    Not only that, but if your “Big Crime” is so complicated and subtle that you need a legal degree just to understand what technicality you transgressed, than….

    Nobody cares.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  71. @69. That should BEZ4U; Walter never warmed to Walter-to-Walter coverage.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  72. Moreover, I’d take it more seriously if the Democrats or the media had ever shown the faintest tinge of good faith when it comes to Trump.

    nk (dbc370)

  73. Any update on Mueller refusing to turn over the original 302’s from Flynn’s interview as ordered by a judge or him wiping and then reissuing the phones used by Strzok and his mistress?

    NJRob (4a4b3b)

  74. 46 and 63, but they left out some documentation

    Narciso (790c29)

  75. The Night They Drove Ol’ Dixie Down The Night That I Became a Clown

    Peter Strzok is the name, and I served in teh FBI
    ‘Til Mueller’s carnival came and gave me teh stinky eye
    In the summer of 2016 we were boinkin’, like two horny teens
    By August 10th, teh ax had fell, it’s a time I remember, oh so well

    The night that I became a clown, and teh press were photographin’
    The night that I became a clown, and the people were laughin’ they went
    Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha ha

    Back with my wife in DC, when one day she called to me
    “Peter, quick, come see, it burns when I take a pee”
    “Now I don’t mind you screwin’ trash, and I don’t care cuz that Page is a gash”
    “Just pack what ya need and ya hit teh road
    And good riddance, have fun with that homely toad”

    The night that I became a clown , and the press were photographin’
    The night that I became a clown, and the people were laughin’ they went
    Ha ha ha ha ha ha… ha ha h-ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaa

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  76. Avenatti has found himself a new client the Ukrainian lobbyist chalupa, snorfle.

    Narciso (790c29)

  77. @ rcocean, who wrote in part (#73, ellipsis his):

    if your “Big Crime” is so complicated and subtle that you need a legal degree just to understand what technicality you transgressed, than [sic]….

    Nobody cares.

    Whether the transgression is hard or difficult to understand, Trump and Cohen clearly understood that it was a transgression. If all they were trying to hide was Trump’s payoff to Stormy, the NDA would have done that just fine.

    But they didn’t just buy her silence. They tried their best to bury the trail of the payoff, because that was the transgression. They wrote the NDA using ridiculous pseudonyms, and they channeled the payments through dummy shell corporations, and they lied in their own business records by calling the reimbursement to Cohen a “retainer.”

    Even a mullet like Michael Cohen understood that, rcocean. Even a mullet like Trump understood it.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  78. Bah. Major editing error by me in #81 above, in which I meant to write, “If all they were trying to hide was Trump’s affair with Stormy ….”

    The point is that they tried to cover not only that up, but they also went to elaborate steps to try to hide the fact that it was the Trump Organization making the payoff during the month prior to the election.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  79. Well, nk, Trump may have his eponymous card in a grand trade off.

    urbanleftbehind (3d4138)

  80. Because preexisting condition exemption is unsustainable. It wasnt allowed in the HMO or erisa bill, it means there is no roof to treatment expenses.

    Narciso (790c29)

  81. I say good news for Democrats, since they now have a clear issue they can demagogue to death.

    Kishnevi (ce6470)

  82. You know “pre-existing condition” means only one thing to the Nancy constituency, don’t you? HIV. Their very expensive antiretrovirals and opportunistic diseases. And I’m sure that Trump knows it, too, and probably considers it a memorial tribute to his BFF Roy Cohn.

    nk (dbc370)

  83. Except our wannabe congresswoman was spinning ot as diabetes,

    Narciso (790c29)

  84. They were going to demagogue it anyways, it’s what they do.

    Narciso (790c29)

  85. Well what do you do, Narciso,except replace a godly chunk of our respective homeland diets with that of pre-NoGoZo Sweden

    urbanleftbehind (3d4138)

  86. They tried risk pools there were practically no takers, we’ll see if the Congress really pushes to reinstate pre existing conditions.

    Narciso (790c29)

  87. I don’t want to base my critique of that judge’s order on scattered quotes in Fox News article, but I think Mr. Chief Justice Roberts will find it easy to overturn it if he chooses to save ACA.

    Kishnevi (ce6470)

  88. BTW, I got The Moralist by Patricia O’Toole. Biography of Woodrow Wilson published a few months ago. I don’t think I can finish. Nine pages in, just graduated college, and Wilson is clearly an irredeemable prig and all around nether orifice.

    Kishnevi (ce6470)

  89. This is before he started studying German philosophy at John hopkins

    Narciso (790c29)

  90. German philosophy doesn’t believe in inalienable rights you can see the problem right there.

    Narciso (790c29)

  91. Most conservatives do not believe in inalienable rights, Otherwise they would be against Gitmo, the Muslim travel ban, restrictionist immigration policies, among others. Inalienable rights for me but not for thee…

    Kishnevi (58423e)

  92. What is this the price is right, mixed with what’s my line.

    So there can be no standards for lawful admittance and/or proper behavior, good to know.

    Narciso (790c29)

  93. Anyways I don’t think you can find a right lizard anymore,

    Narciso (790c29)

  94. “Most conservatives do not believe in inalienable rights“
    Kishnevi (58423e) — 12/14/2018 @ 8:35 pm

    No, most conservatives don’t believe in a suicide pact.

    Munroe (9700fc)

  95. An illustration of the former was his segregating the DC public schools appointing a rat like mcreynolds as atty general.

    Narciso (790c29)

  96. If a right is inalienable, then it shouldn’t matter what conservatives believe, kishnevi. They can’t do anything to take it away from you. If they can, then it is not inalienable.

    nk (dbc370)

  97. That’s absurd Kishnevi. We accept that you cannot grant the world free access to our nation or you no longer have a nation. Borders exist for a reason. We don’t live or want to live in a one world government.

    NJRob (4a4b3b)

  98. So there can be no standards for lawful admittance and/or proper behavior, good to know.

    There can be such standards, if you believe rights are granted by government. But not if you believe that rights inhere in all humans simply because they are human.

    So many people call claim rights are inalienable. But then act as if they are not.
    Just like many people claim to be against corruption but don’t bat an eye at Trump’s corruption.

    The only possible conclusion that most conservatives don’t actually believe in the slogans they brandish.

    Kishnevi (58423e)

  99. And if The Creator endowed the other 7.3 billion people of the world with the inalienable right to come to America, then don’t you think it was very remiss of Him not to also provide them with visas? And would an airplane ticket and a few travelers checks have been all that hard for Him?

    nk (dbc370)

  100. So what do you believe, all 5,7 billion people have a right to come here?

    Narciso (790c29)

  101. Inalienable rights. Alinskyite sophistry for the gullible.

    nk (dbc370)

  102. So there can be no standards for lawful admittance and/or proper behavior, good to know.

    I am merely pointing out how conservatives don’t believe in their own rhetoric.

    . Borders exist for a reason.
    Yes. The reason for the US Mexico border is that Yankees settled in California and Texas, and needed Arizona and New Mexico as the quickest route between the two. The US Army provided the means to that end in the 1840s.

    Kishnevi (58423e)

  103. So you would put the border in Oregon and Oklahoma, or maybe nebraska.

    Narciso (790c29)

  104. So what do you believe, all 5,7 billion people have a right to come here?

    As much right as you did.

    Kishnevi (58423e)

  105. Are you just an anarchist, what are the rules.

    Narciso (790c29)

  106. Worse than sophistry. Here’s the entire relevant passage from the Declaration of Independence:

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

    nk (dbc370)

  107. Now that’s a more incendiary sentiment, admittedly but that is the context. How did they put in Roman times ‘if treason doth prosper, it is not treason’

    Narciso (790c29)

  108. If all those other people want to live under the government of the United States, it seems to me that they should overthrow their governments and petition for annexation by the United States.

    nk (dbc370)

  109. It’s not as easy as it seems, take Puerto Rico.

    Narciso (790c29)

  110. “But they didn’t just buy her silence. They tried their best to bury the trail of the payoff”

    Not much of an NDA if simply following the money can get you the particulars to connect the dots with now, is it?

    “Whether the transgression is hard or difficult to understand, Trump and Cohen clearly understood that it was a transgression. They wrote the NDA using ridiculous pseudonyms, and they channeled the payments through dummy shell corporations, and they lied in their own business records by calling the reimbursement to Cohen a “retainer.””

    What you call mens rea the rest of us call ‘best practices in the current hush money remittance industry.’ You can’t just mutually promise not to kiss and tell anymore, especially when you’re a high profile public figure with all sorts of third parties quite eager to break the mutual silence via any means necessary. Ludicrous levels of deniability are built into journalism, big business, Congress, most government agencies, and apparently anything having to do with the original 302s on Michael Flynn.

    Why should Trump be denied the protections and presumption that it seems every Jim, Strzok, and Muelly gets? Why shouldn’t our duly elected rulers get the privileges of rulership? Why should we listen to what’s essentially an IRS agent talking to us in ver serious tones about how he could totally nail this guy on a violation of US 1040 Paragraph 3, subsection 1a? Why shouldn’t we conclude that in the faces of daily violations more flagrant and less cited that this is anything other than a Witch Hunt by careerist Enemies of the People who’ll change their tune on a dime as soon as the political winds shift?

    Timmy (e69291)

  111. We start this tale 2/3rds through the story like when I saw the first avengers film, who put her up to this, yes I realize what her profession loosely defined is, who funded her and how much

    Narciso (790c29)

  112. It’s not as easy as it seems, take Puerto Rico.

    No way! You take it.

    nk (dbc370)

  113. “As much right as you did.”
    Kishnevi (58423e) — 12/14/2018 @ 9:10 pm

    Then please post your home address Kishnevi, since we all have the same right to live there.

    Munroe (4ecc31)

  114. Rimshot it’s a free associated territory which means its like schrodinger’s cat, it’s not an independent nation, nor a state.

    Narciso (790c29)

  115. Look, leaving out the self-evident truth that the Declaration of Independence is nothing more than a piece of self-serving public relations bullsh!t, that “unalienable rights” stuff is still about a people’s relationship to their government. What makes a legitimate government. It’s got nothing to do with people who are not subject to the government of the United States. When they do become subject to the government of the United States, they get all the benefits of the laws of the United States, true or false? But before that, in their sh!thole countries under their sh!thole governments, they ain’t no skin off our noses and we ain’t no skin off of theirs.

    nk (dbc370)

  116. Yes the declaration is not in fact dicta, but it informs the constitution, which circumscribed the fuzzier sovereignty model of the articles.

    Narciso (790c29)

  117. After a majority of Trumpalistas wake up from their stupor and ask themselves, “WTF was I thinking in water-carrying for this guy,” they will have realized that French nailed it on (1) Trump went way past John Edwards in his conspiracy to commit fraud against the American people and (2) that Flynn had no real excuse to lie to the FBI.

    Paul Montagu (1586ff)

  118. And strikingly montagu you miss the point,

    Narciso (790c29)

  119. And Obamacare was always unconstitutional. Just because the court pretended the Emperor was wearing clothes doesn’t change the fact that he was really naked. Slavery is illegal.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  120. So it would seem rob, but let’s indulge in the two minute hate, without regard to context. Judge o’connor seems remarkably farsighted like judge hanen before him

    Narciso (790c29)

  121. Most conservatives do not believe in inalienable rights, Otherwise they would be against Gitmo, the Muslim travel ban, restrictionist immigration policies, among others. Inalienable rights for me but not for thee…
    Kishnevi (58423e) — 12/14/2018 @ 8:35 pm

    — Your “The Declaration of Independence calls for open borders” hot take! 😃

    Icy (c04c22)

  122. The open border policy for the “American Indian” sucked.

    mg (8cbc69)

  123. The pathetic Paul Ryan has destroyed any chance of republicans controlling anything except personal bowel movements.

    mg (8cbc69)

  124. mitt romney’s slicked-up little boy has no self-respect

    that’s why he’s daddy romney’s favorite one

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  125. How long until Justice roberts and justice kavanaugh overturn Texas Judge O’Conners obamacare ruling?

    mg (8cbc69)

  126. How anyone could be worse than Denny the pedophile and Dope dealing Johnny is just wrong. Ryan the weasel from wisconsin is about to cash in. Pathetic.

    mg (8cbc69)

  127. @ Timmy, who, responding to my #115, wrote (#115):

    What you call mens rea the rest of us call ‘best practices in the current hush money remittance industry.’ You can’t just mutually promise not to kiss and tell anymore, especially when you’re a high profile public figure with all sorts of third parties quite eager to break the mutual silence via any means necessary….

    How many nondisclosure agreements have you personally written, negotiated, or signed, Timmy?

    As a civil trial lawyer, I’ve been doing it for the past forty years, and have done hundreds of settlement agreements that contain confidentiality terms, including NDAs. I’ve seen them — by which I mean, negotiated, written, and revised them — in everything from divorce settlements to settlements of multi-million dollar litigation involving Fortune 100 companies that could buy and sell the Trump Organization out of petty cash. I’ve likewise litigated their enforceability after they’ve been signed. Sometimes I’ve represented the party demanding confidentiality, and sometimes I’ve represented the party who’d prefer no restrictions on disclosure, and sometimes I’ve been in negotiations in which both sides wanted some sort of confidentiality but couldn’t agree on exact terms.

    I have never seen one remotely as devious and overreaching as the craptacular piece of excrement that Michael Cohen wrote for Donald Trump. That’s my professional opinion, and that’s the basis for it.

    What’s your basis for your opinion, Timmy? How is it that you have this expertise on “best practices” that you wish to share with the rest of us here?

    Beldar (fa637a)

  128. Paul Ryan = Ryan Leaf

    mg (8cbc69)

  129. But given the sheer volume of RINO awarded the involuntary vacation this November, Ryan has a lot of cheaper possibly just as connected competitors in the lobbyist job market.

    urbanleftbehind (3d4138)

  130. Those ingrates will continue to collectively conspire against me.

    mg (8cbc69)

  131. A young lady of obvious charms walks into a pawnshop. She shows the pawnbroker a diamond bracelet and asks: “How much will you give me this?” The pawnbroker looks at it through his loop and says: “Nothing, miss. It’s only glass and tinsel over pot metal.” And the young lady says: “Oh, my God! I’ve been seduced!”

    nk (dbc370)

  132. nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2018 @ 6:17 am

    Heh!

    felipe (023cc9)

  133. Western Civ is ending not with a bang or a whimper but a frenzy of finger pointing. Meanwhile the Trumps and the Clintons are getting rich.

    JRH (fe281f)

  134. Beldar, it’s always good to hear from you. I believe, if you recall, I wasn’t all in on Trump until it was down to him and the Beagle Of Benghazhi. Maybe you don’t recall. Let me try to jog your memory. I said something along the lines of, “Holy %$#@, if it comes down to voting for another Clinton I’m voting for Judas Iscaraiot.”

    I am not, shall we say, a Trump fan. I’m a huge fan of some of the things he has done. Justices to pick a few. And that’s a lot. And I’d like to see him stick it out because it’s entertaining as all get out.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  135. I mean, seriously. Nancy Pelosi and Charles Schumer? Can we at least vote for a King novel so we know what kind of clown we’re voting for?

    OK, it’s not original. Did I promise you original?

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  136. Wrong lizard, from Doug Adams I also got zaphod for Obama,

    Narciso (1eb6be)

  137. narcisso, now is perhaps not the time.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  138. I didn’t like that one, the dead zone firestarter up to a point.

    All we need know is the prog end game and how they circumvented the legal system to get to where we are now.

    Narciso (1eb6be)

  139. Well, Ill give you that one.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  140. Hey, everybody can be wrong.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  141. The pawnbroker looks at it through his loop and says: […]

    nk, your word for the day is “loupe”.

    :)

    Dave (1bb933)

  142. I blame autocucumber.

    So when so called conservatives start using prog talking points, that’s when I worry.

    Dan molden was accusing Reagan of mob ties through mca, kitty Kelley’s wet bag of garbage accused Reagan of rape, the scandal industry wasnt as developed back then

    Narciso (1eb6be)

  143. Was guiliani perfect not by any means, but were you going to vote for mark green or Amy random idiot instead.

    Narciso (1eb6be)

  144. I tawt I wote woupe. Chicagoan slip.

    nk (dbc370)

  145. Did he help create this remorseless sdny machine, from which eliot Spitzer Preet bhaara and pat Fitzgerald sprung as if from Minerva’s head, probably.

    Narciso (1eb6be)

  146. And strikingly montagu you miss the point,

    Going back and checking and…nope, nothing missed.

    Paul Montagu (b0bc4a)

  147. I don’t have the experience of all you gentleman and lady but I read a lot, and it puts perspective on the news of today.

    Narciso (1eb6be)

  148. Yes David French doesn’t particularly impress , nor whatever lawfare deep state minion you wish to cite

    Narciso (1eb6be)

  149. Marcy Wheeler has been following the Trump-Putin investigation as closely as anyone, and she mentions how Flynn’s FBI interview was distorted by Trump allies.

    So Republicans hoping to find the smoking gun have looked and looked and looked and looked and looked at the circumstances of Mike Flynn’s interview. Already by March of last year, they had resorted only to misstating Comey’s testimony about what happened in the HPSCI report.

    Director Comey testified to the Committee that “the agents … discerned no physical indications of deception. They didn’t see any change in posture, in tone, in inflection, in eye contact. They saw nothing that indicated to them that he knew he was lying to them.”

    Nothing in the report — which now includes a section substantially declassified to reveal more purportedly incriminating details about Flynn — suggests real impropriety with his interview.
    Even in that very same paragraph, they quote McCabe (the guy who wrote up a memo that same day, which is probably what Sally Yates relied on when she suggested to the White House they needed to fire Flynn) stating very clearly that the FBI agents recognized that Flynn had lied.

    McCabe confirmed the interviewing agent’s initial impression and stated that the “conundrum that we faced on their return from the interview is that although [the agents] didn’t detect deception in the statements that he made in the interview … the statements were inconsistent with our understanding of the conversation that he had actually had with the ambassador.”

    In other words, Flynn gave no physical signs of lying when he lied.

    Paul Montagu (b0bc4a)

  150. Yes David French doesn’t particularly impress , nor whatever lawfare deep state minion you wish to cite

    Ad hom in the place of actual content noted.

    Paul Montagu (b0bc4a)

  151. If an Army spy, who rose through the ranks to become first the Army’s top spy and then the nation’s top spy, cannot lie convincingly to the secret police, who can?

    nk (dbc370)

  152. So why did it take almost two years for that initial memo to surface, because general Flynn’s removal wouldn’t have been necessary nor Ashcroft’s recusal which set off this whole merrygoround.

    Narciso (1eb6be)

  153. Heh, but then they lied about the interview, much as it was with scooter libby, eickenrode lost the 302s and libby could not rely on any contemporaneous material.

    Narciso (1eb6be)

  154. You notice when it came to counter terror investigations, the bureau refused to make the linkages that insist here, the kind the interrogations provided, instead the levick boys put the company operators on trial,

    Narciso (1eb6be)

  155. Speaking of Lawfare, an update on where the Steele reports line up with Trump-Putin investigation and where they’re uncorroborated. The conclusion:

    As we noted, our interest is in assessing the Steele dossier as a raw intelligence document, not a finished piece of analysis. The Mueller investigation has clearly produced public records that confirm pieces of the dossier. And even where the details are not exact, the general thrust of Steele’s reporting seems credible in light of what we now know about extensive contacts between numerous individuals associated with the Trump campaign and Russian government officials.
    However, there is also a good deal in the dossier that has not been corroborated in the official record and perhaps never will be—whether because it’s untrue, unimportant or too sensitive. As a raw intelligence document, the Steele dossier, we believe, holds up well so far. But surely there is more to come from Mueller’s team. We will return to it as the public record develops.

    Paul Montagu (b0bc4a)

  156. In other words, Flynn gave no physical signs of lying when he lied.

    Bingo. I’ve never understood TrumpWorld’s obsession with denying the undeniable.

    The FBI agents had a recording, or a verbatim transcript, of what Flynn actually said to Kislyak, and it did not agree with what he told them.

    Dave (1bb933)

  157. So Zubaydah was just some schlub office manager but he knew everyone up and down the organizational chain.

    Narciso (1eb6be)

  158. Steele was like Harper in the Steven McQueen film, an idealist in a sunny land of sharks, except Russian sharks are measurably worse.

    Who was his last contact, a dead man marked by the regime, who in turn was all too friendly with certain Chechen militants.

    Simpson had more contacts notably akmetshin t

    Narciso (1eb6be)

  159. The Russian American atty with intelligence ties, who pointed him to firtash, a middle level player in the bratva

    Narciso (1eb6be)

  160. If an Army spy, who rose through the ranks to become first the Army’s top spy and then the nation’s top spy, cannot lie convincingly to the secret police, who can?

    And if the nation’s top spy doesn’t understand that figurative tape is rolling when he tries to sell out his country to the Russian ambassador over an insecure line, he probably has the wrong job.

    Dave (1bb933)

  161. If an Army spy, who rose through the ranks to become first the Army’s top spy and then the nation’s top spy, cannot lie convincingly to the secret police, who can?

    Sure, Flynn didn’t lie, he just used Flynn Facts. I’m not going to get into Flynn’s head as to why he would tell things to this “secret police” that were provably false. BTW, Mueller pushed back against Flynn’s lawyers, although he’s still pushing for no jail time.

    Paul Montagu (b0bc4a)

  162. Obama was screwing Israel over, preferring Russia’s proxy, which is Iran and then syria.

    Narciso (1eb6be)

  163. Until Mueller has to sign the check, or judge Sullivan has to sanction his whole team he never apoligizes.

    Narciso (1eb6be)

  164. The former concerned dr. Hatfill, the latter Ted stevens,

    Narciso (1eb6be)

  165. Feet stomping pouters need to be taught a lesson.

    mg (8cbc69)

  166. “In other words, Flynn gave no physical signs of lying when he lied.”
    Paul Montagu (b0bc4a) — 12/15/2018 @ 7:34 am

    In the next NeverTrump or Democrat administration, when the FBI Director follows established protocol when requesting to interview a member of the administration during the initial days of transition, I’m sure we’ll hear from the usual suspects here that this is the proper thing to do — and outrage otherwise.

    Munroe (13736d)

  167. Now he did a publicity piece for the Turks, who I guess are now in favor again, as their star chamber is the source for the latest narrative. Are we going to scrutinize everyone on k street now?

    Narciso (1eb6be)

  168. If you’ve read exiled journalist bozkurt or a host of other authorities Erdogan is not to be relied upon.

    Narciso (1eb6be)

  169. In the next NeverTrump or Democrat administration, when the FBI Director follows established protocol…

    The agents asked if Flynn wanted White House counsel in the room and he said “no”. And the interview didn’t take place “during the initial days of transition”.

    Paul Montagu (b0bc4a)

  170. Cohen come to think of it, reminds me of Abramoff, a fixer who was given too much leeway in the Hastert years, but was only targeted at Republicans reid or Obama were off limits so Ney delay were all proper targets,

    Narciso (1eb6be)

  171. In other words you wind up Cohen with the sword of damocles and he’ll say anything, often in contradiction to previous statements

    Narciso (1eb6be)

  172. You see why these 302s were hidden away, because it would have threatened this whole changa architecture that had been in place.

    The communication with Kislyak was during the transition after the assassination of the Russian ambassador who was executed by a follower of Erdogan leading religious authority

    Narciso (1eb6be)

  173. ‘The agents asked if Flynn wanted White House counsel in the room and he said “no”. And the interview didn’t take place “during the initial days of transition”.’
    Paul Montagu (b0bc4a) — 12/15/2018 @ 8:36 am

    That’s not established protocol, as you already know if you heard Comey admit to it publicly — and I’m guessing you have.

    The administration would be firmly established just days into transitioning power, would be everyone’s expectation. Got it. Except that Comey knew better, and took advantage. Again, as he publicly admitted. I’m sure he’d do that with any administration, if he could get away with it. Right. And you’d be totally square with it. Right again.

    Munroe (f52ec6)

  174. It’s a lack of reading comprehension, Monroe. It’s a cover-up… https://twitter.com/seanmdav/status/1073674808963952640

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  175. Mississippi, 1957:

    Polling place official: “Well, now, Mr Jackson, we have to have a little literacy test here. Please read this item and tell me what it means”

    Mr Jackson: “This is a medical journal. I have no idea what this is talking about.”

    Polling place official: “Well, then I’m sorry, Uncle, we have to have strict rules here. Next. OK, Billy Bob, what does this say?”

    Billy Bob: C … uh, C A, uh, CAT!”

    Polling place official: “Right you are. Here’s your ballot.”

    ———-

    Washington DC, 2018:

    MSM Reporter: “Well, Mr Trump Official, we’ve come across your tax returns for the last 40 years, crowdsourced them, and we have some questions. Did you really claim $100 in 1973 for donating clothing to charity? We looked through the charity’s records and they only valued them at $95. When will you resign?”

    Trump Official: “Hunh? A little picky, if you ask me. What about that Democrat senator over there collecting envelopes from a pack of lobbyists?”

    MSM Reporter: “You guys! Always with the whataboutisms! Have you no decency yet?”

    Kevin M (6fea79)

  176. Comey having hunter down ‘enemy of the people’ Martha Stewart, was put in charge of the plane matter after Ashcroft was forced to recuse himself, because he had a tangential connection to rove.

    Narciso (1eb6be)

  177. Oh, you mean like Gulag Archipelago? The Solzhenhtskin bjllsbW@$E?

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  178. Oh, that one.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  179. Speaking of big-time liars, Putin told a whopper regarding one of his she-spies.

    “This poor girl is in jail, our Butina, she is facing 15 years imprisonment, for what? When I heard that something was going on with her … first I asked all the heads of our special services, who is this? No one knows anything about her at all; the only person who knows something about her is in the Federation Council; she was perhaps working for one of the deputies there, that’s all.”

    In her own words in court, she pled guilty to conspiracy to commit at offense against the United States, and she worked closely with one Putin’s pet oligarchs, Torshin. And the NRA needs to answer some questions about why they would pal around with a Putineers.

    Paul Montagu (b0bc4a)

  180. Comey quickly realized that Armitage had leaked to Miller and Novak and Woodward, but that didn’t fit the narrative of a war against Joe Wilson so he allowed his good friend Fitzgerald to be appointed are you seeing the same notes like a cover band.

    Narciso (1eb6be)

  181. Why is Lanny Davis and Michael Chertoff, firtashs lawyer, because he pays well and if you stiff him, he has ways to get back at you.

    The whole Manafort enterprise involved a whole basket of fmr European pols scrambling for relevance, Podesta and Weber did the actual handholding and schmoozing

    Narciso (1eb6be)

  182. “And the NRA needs to answer some questions about why they would pal around with a Putineers.”

    Sure… right after 0bama explains what he meant when he said on mic (I’ll paraphrase) “tell Vlad I can be more flexible after the election” back in 2012.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  183. That’s not established protocol, as you already know if you heard Comey admit to it publicly — and I’m guessing you have.

    Noted, that Trumpalistas believe Comey when it suits their purposes. Mueller submitted to a court of law yesterday, presumably under the penalty of perjury, that FBI agents acted appropriately.

    Paul Montagu (b0bc4a)

  184. I actually don’t believe Comey any time.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  185. You shouldn’t believe me.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  186. “Noted, that Trumpalistas believe Comey when it suits their purposes.”
    Paul Montagu (b0bc4a) — 12/15/2018 @ 9:23 am

    When someone is speaking against interest, I’ll believe them — including you, Paul. In your case, when that happens let me know.

    Heck, I’ll even believe Sally Yates, who in a brief dalliance with integrity appears to have been displeased with Comey’s ploy.

    Munroe (49b7dc)

  187. Evidence.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  188. Comey may have been FBI Director, but when the IG pointed out his multiple breaches of protocol. And now Comey is gettin’ all protolcoly when he’s out of a job. All the same to y’all, I’ll side with the guy who has had no history of such a problem.

    Paul Montagu (b0bc4a)

  189. Errors of protocol, is that what they are calling obstruction of justice now, you amuse me montagu, there was no partisan interference except there was to an olfactory level.

    Narciso (1eb6be)

  190. McCabe leaked to barrett, by way of strzok, as the Clinton whitewash was coming to an end.

    Narciso (1eb6be)

  191. Comey let loose more lures (halper mifsud Greenberg) then in a mark Twain tale. Miss veselnitskaya was authorized an unrestricted Visa even though she was the target of a criminal fraud investigation Kislyak was invited to Cleveland in 2016, individually this seems conceivable but in concert it speaks of deliberate action

    Narciso (1eb6be)

  192. Errors of protocol, is that what they are calling obstruction of justice now, you amuse me montagu

    Thank you, but there were no “Errors of protocol”, as testified under oath by the Special Counsel. And the obstruction isn’t coming from Mueller, not when a president openly stated that he fired an FBI Director to stymie an investigation “because of Russia”.

    Paul Montagu (8d207c)

  193. “Mueller submitted to a court of law yesterday, presumably under the penalty of perjury, that FBI agents acted appropriately.”
    Paul Montagu (b0bc4a) — 12/15/2018 @ 9:23 am

    Mueller would know, since he was nowhere in the picture at the time.

    And, Judge Emmit Sullivan knows well from the Stevens case, on which he presided, what harsh measures await corrupt federal prosecutors when they’re caught in the act — as in, nothing, hardly even a slap on the wrist. I’m guessing Mueller knows that, too.

    Munroe (836de7)

  194. Adler and Gluck on yesterday’s after-hours strike-down of Obamacare. The Fifth Circuit and Supreme Court should vacate Judge O’Connor’s ruling in a heartbeat, on severability alone. It was a politically tinged judicial power-grab over another branch of government.

    Paul Montagu (8d207c)

  195. 202… in his opinion, “agents acted appropriately”… probably not something that would fall under penalty of perjury.

    Sheesh.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  196. We have to continue with this fraud that a felon Robert creamer concocted and foisted on the people, he was also the architect if the j 20 protests, not that the courts gave a tinkers

    Narciso (1eb6be)

  197. Paul,

    hahahahahaha. Right. Obamacare is constitutional according to what… pull my other leg.

    And there’s no political tinge at all to previous decisions or the left that constantly sues to stop President Trump from executing his constitutional authority.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  198. And as for exercising raw judicial power, what do you think Roberts was doing when he changed the words of the law to mean tax in the first place?

    NJRob (4d595c)

  199. hahahahahaha. Right. Obamacare is constitutional according to what… pull my other leg.

    It’s the law of the land, tested by the nation’s highest court, therefore Obamacare is constitutional until or if the Supreme Court says otherwise. That’s just a fact. For O’Connor, the higher courts don’t even have to rule on whether Obamacare is constitutional, only that he badly misapplied a basic judicial concept in striking down the law.

    Paul Montagu (8d207c)

  200. Correction, holder’s DOJ reinstated the official that Sullivan had sanctioned, you almost never hear of this from a press who was nauseous over singelman

    Narciso (1eb6be)

  201. roberts should be impeached

    mg (8cbc69)

  202. And the NRA needs to answer some questions about why they would pal around with a Putineers.

    Mr. Montague, I will never again take another word you say seriously. Some people are smart enough to understand that just because she wanted to infiltrate the NRA it does not mean that the NRA wanted to be infiltrated by her. Even anti-gunners, but to them it doesn’t matter.

    nk (dbc370)

  203. No the dems game the system through voter fraud fake indictment almost total media control they pulled a fast one, and threatened the chief justice to go their way.

    Narciso (1eb6be)

  204. What this actually might do is get a bipartisan agreement in Congress, to amend the Judiciary Act and/or the Code of Civil Procedure, so that only the DC Circuit has jurisdiction and/or venue for actions against the United States challenging the validity of federal laws and regulations. But I doubt it.

    nk (dbc370)

  205. Mr. Montague, I will never again take another word you say seriously.

    I’m crushed. It’s the National Rifle Association, not the International Rifle Association.

    Paul Montagu (8d207c)

  206. More from Adler here. He was the same guy who made one of the strongest arguments against Obamacare the previous time around.

    Paul Montagu (8d207c)

  207. If she is a permanent resident or even a tourist with a range permit or a hunting license, she is entitled to have firearms and ammunition. The same kind as a citizen if she is a permanent resident; the ones suitable for her permitted activity if she is a visitor.

    nk (dbc370)

  208. But that’s still besides the point. The fact that she wanted to influence the NRA does not create any fault on the part of the NRA unless it let itself be influenced. Which it did not.

    nk (dbc370)

  209. Which is wasnt, remember the standing order of the DHS under Napolitano was to consider veterans Christians and fire arms owners as the enemy.

    Narciso (1eb6be)

  210. If it don’t take the cake, narciso. Calling the NRA unpatriotic.

    nk (dbc370)

  211. I’ll tell you that “their” real problem with Russia is. It’s not communist anymore.

    nk (dbc370)

  212. that what “their”

    nk (dbc370)

  213. “Which it did not.”

    the NRA, like everyone else in Trump-land, has had a hard time getting its story straight on Russian donors. Hope you don’t play the horses.

    JRH (fe281f)

  214. “Modern journalism is all about deciding which facts the public shouldn’t know because they might reflect badly on Democrats.”

    — Jim Treacher

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  215. there’s no such thing as modern journalism

    just trashy cnn jake tapper fake news

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  216. the NRA, like everyone else in Trump-land

    That’s all I needed to hear.

    nk (dbc370)

  217. But that’s still besides the point. The fact that she wanted to influence the NRA does not create any fault on the part of the NRA unless it let itself be influenced. Which it did not.

    The question for the NRA isn’t going to be about collusion with the Russians, it will be on whether the money the Russians funneled into the NRA was enabled by anyone who worked there.

    I’ve not liked the ridiculous comp plans that Wayne and his buddies get, both from the NRA and the separate comp they get from their ad agency. I’ve canceled my membership after the bump stock fiasco and moved to GOA. The NRA seems to care a bit more about fundraising than actual true advocacy for the actual gun owner.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (06725b)

  218. That is the only reason they are interested in this:

    https://dailycaller.com/2018/12/15/fbi-steele-dossier-trump-comey/

    Narciso (d1f714)

  219. @ Steve57: Thanks for the good wishes, my friend, it’s always good to hear from you, too, and I hope that you and yours are well in this Christmas season.

    *****

    Q: If Flynn was “entrapped” or otherwise wrongly treated in a way that contributed to his lying to the FBI, was he likewise entrapped or wrongly treated when he lied to the Vice President and other top administration officials, resulting in Trump firing him? A: Of course not; and of course Flynn was not duped or misled or mistreated by the FBI. He pleaded guilty because he is guilty; I’m fine with him serving no jail time, and I’m out of patience with the Trump supporters who are white-knighting for a guy who neither needs nor deserves it.

    *****

    A last point, or really, amplification of a prior point, on the subject of this post, Trump’s alleged knowledge and direction of the Stormy cover-up: Because Cohen was repaid by the Trump Organization through phonied-up paperwork pretending that all of the money was for Cohen’s legal services, it became a business expense of the Trump Organization. Recall that “the Trump Organization” is, as Wikipedia tells us, “a group of approximately 500 business entities of which Donald Trump, the current U.S. President, is the sole or principal owner.” They were deducted from the Trump Organization’s current income, above-the-line. So what Trump was hiding, through the NDA and especially through the pseudonyms and euphemisms and dummy corporations and claims of attorney-client privilege, was not just that he’d dallied with a porn star, or that he’d paid her off to buy her silence, but that he effectively got the American taxpayers to pay for it.

    Yes, you and I paid for this.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  220. I do blame trump for not conveying to pence, about the critical nature of these conversations re the UN vote, but pence wanted a stronger confrontation than we were to engage with Syria at this time.

    narciso (d1f714)

  221. No Beldar we have been paying for Mueller’s excellent adventure to the tune of 25.2 million dollars.

    narciso (d1f714)

  222. A judicial power grab? So, every decision judges ever make?

    The “rule of law” is essentially a scam, particularly in a country such as ours where most important controversies are resolved by courts.

    Mike P. (dddb3b)

  223. roberts should be impeached

    I can think of 4 who should be impeached first.

    Kevin M (6fea79)

  224. #231. I think all the amounts claimed from Manafort make up for Mueller costs. You guys need to drop the green eyeshade argument.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  225. “Flynn was not duped or misled or mistreated by the FBI. He pleaded guilty because he is guilty“
    Beldar (fa637a) — 12/15/2018 @ 1:22 pm

    If only. Pleading guilty is a function of actual guilt and prosecutorial discretion. Comey deviating from protocol is an example of the latter. Here’s another:

    “No reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case” — James Comey

    Munroe (235115)

  226. Maybe Trump should invade Iran. An expensive and pointless war in a sand pit will get the anti-Trump ‘conservatives’ back on board.

    bates (dddb3b)

  227. No Beldar we have been paying for Mueller’s excellent adventure to the tune of 25.2 million dollars.

    Except that Mueller has already collected at least $42M from Trump’s corrupt henchman Manafort who was engaged in massive fraud against the taypayers. That more than covers the costs of Mueller’s investigation.

    So Mueller (unlike Trump) is actually helping to reduce the deficit.

    Related: Special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation could turn a profit for the government, thanks to Paul Manafort’s asset forfeiture

    Dave (1bb933)

  228. If she is a permanent resident or even a tourist with a range permit or a hunting license, she is entitled to have firearms and ammunition.

    Got it. Butina isn’t entitled to vote here yet she cavorted with NRA members to purportedly socialize with NRA members who influence voters or politicians. Nothing suspicious about that, or with the NRA cozying up to a Putin pet oligarch like Torshin who is, by definition, corrupt. If she honestly had such a jones for firearms, she could’ve gone down to the Wartmal and bought one like anyone else, not insinuate herself into an American political lobbying organization.

    Paul Montagu (effc0c)

  229. Given Manafort’s behavior, I have no doubt that Mueller is going to try to take all of Manafort’s $46 million. Adding the $500,000 paid by Cohen, the Trump-Putin investigation is well in the black for the American taxpayers. There won’t be a lot more in expenditures because Mueller should writing up his report to Rosy pretty soon.

    Paul Montagu (effc0c)

  230. That’s one way to generate revenue for the ever-expanding reach and power of Teh State.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  231. In Flynn’s case, bleed the man dry, make him lose his home and then slap his wrist and thank him for his military service.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  232. There was a time when “conservatives” or other people on the Center-Right didn’t cheer and high-five over that sort of schiff.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  233. There was a time when “conservatives” or other people on the Center-Right didn’t cheer and high-five over that sort of schiff.

    There was a time when conservatives raked liberals over the coals for their softness on Russians and bending over backwards for same. And it’s ironic that Trump and his people were still taking the advice of a one-degree-removed agent for Putin, and my how Manafort’s little strategy has spread.

    Paul Montagu (effc0c)

  234. maybe he didn’t have to sell his house, but like scooter libby he didn’t deserve any of this garbage, the lesson is you are a republican who aspires to serve, we will make your life a living hell, and yes perhaps it was the same with the Clinton crew, but I don’t care,

    narciso (d1f714)

  235. yes and lanny davis, who has represented Pakistani general, central African warlords, and the occasional Russian oligarch, became Cohen’s handler, how do you think that happened,

    narciso (d1f714)

  236. I, for one, can’t wait for the Republicans to rediscover fiscal conservatism the instant the new house is seated.

    Davethulhu (c2a30b)

  237. “republican who aspires to serve”

    What part of “aspires to serve” is “rendition political refugee for $10 million”?

    Davethulhu (c2a30b)

  238. and appalled, your concern is almost always misplaced, did you learn nothing from ‘magic pony’ Obama, yes noonan, using that expression, is irony cubed,

    narciso (d1f714)

  239. You really think mueller wouldn’t have indicted on that, if he had a case, besides gulen has greased enough palms in dc, to make that highly unlikely,

    narciso (d1f714)

  240. and then Jennifer Lawrence made sexy with Harvey Weinstein and it was so good the end

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  241. right, you know what foul den of villainy, you are swimming in squid, the one the fellow who has persecuted our host for years comes from,

    narciso (d1f714)

  242. ot, the think about dushku, with Michael weatherly came out of left field,

    narciso (d1f714)

  243. seems like dushku hasn’t been living her best life for some time now

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  244. DPRK News on Zinke:

    Noted grifter and Minister of Oil and Gas Production Ryan Zinke expected to resign in disgrace after achieving his Last Score.

    Paul Montagu (effc0c)

  245. 243… ROFL… by Thor’s Mighty Hammer, when you’re not going to Politifact, you’re hitting Snopes. When you’re not relying on the Washington Post, you trot out the NYT. When you’re not getting your news from CNN, it’s over to MSLSD.

    And now Vox?!?!?! Bless your heart!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  246. I blame Fox News for Trump’s bimbo eruption. Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal saw Fox pay Megan Kelly and Gretchen Carlson $20 million a piece (sic) just for being looked at funny, and Andrea Mackris $32 million for being talked to funny, and at $130,000 for Stormy and $150,000 for Karen both of who had actually put out, they felt badly lowballed, not to mention dickered. So since they hadn’t made what they felt they should have by peddling their assets, they tried once more to peddle their stories. Much to Trump’s and Cohen’s discomfit.

    3For the lips of a strange woman drop as an honeycomb, and her mouth is smoother than oil:
    4But her end is bitter as wormwood, sharp as a two-edged sword.
    5Her feet go down to death; her steps take hold on hell.

    nk (dbc370)

  247. it goes hand and glove with the disdain for gateway and breitbart, admittedly they have made mistakes in the past, but the times the post and the journal seem intent on furthering the progressive project at all cost at all times, and occasionally stepping over the truth, like a murder victim,

    narciso (d1f714)

  248. Everything is grist for the Terminal Trump Derangement mill, Haiku. Nobody’s safe if it will hurt Trump. Not even the NRA’s patriotism, as you may have noticed.

    nk (dbc370)

  249. well the nra is the real enemy, hasn’t that been made kristol clear, yes that wasn’t a typo, Brexit nor trump nor the yellow jackets could not have existed if not for Russian influences, to believe otherwise is false consciousness,

    narciso (d1f714)

  250. Megan Kelly’s a hugely dirty bimbo that’s why nbc was so hot for her

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  251. She was hot for NBC. Matt Lauer alone was worth another $20 million to her, but NBC fired him before she could put in her claim. Just stole the food out of her children’s mouths is what they did.

    nk (dbc370)

  252. There was a time when “conservatives” or other people on the Center-Right didn’t cheer and high-five over that sort of schiff.

    I guess I’m not old-school enough to remember when we were in favor of letting Russian agents get away with money laundering and tax fraud.

    Dave (1bb933)

  253. smallest violin for her, she walked into a swarm of mean girls, intending to be queen bee,

    narciso (d1f714)

  254. fetishizing russians while the dirty filthy chinesers are stealing everything that’s not nailed down is a little quixotic i think

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  255. Given Manafort’s behavior, I have no doubt that Mueller is going to try to take all of Manafort’s $46 million. Adding the $500,000 paid by Cohen, the Trump-Putin investigation is well in the black for the American taxpayers. There won’t be a lot more in expenditures because Mueller should writing up his report to Rosy pretty soon.

    As a nexus of the illegal conspiracy to violate federal election law between the Trump campaign and agents of the Russian government, I hope Mueller seizes Trump Tower.

    Dave (1bb933)

  256. She was hot for NBC.

    No, she is just plain hot.

    Dave (1bb933)

  257. she’s nasty what are you talking about she’s just plain hot

    plus she’s a vicious racist who thinks black people should wear halloween costumes

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  258. 263… other than the one Bimbo, who are these Russians being prosecuted… names please.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  259. 259… agreed, nk.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  260. 4 out of 5 mathematicians say if Torquemada 2020 adds up, they hope Trump Tower is seized!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  261. 5. Colonel Haiku (2184e5) — 12/14/2018 @ 7:55 am

    BTW… where’s Muh Russian Collusion?!?!

    It’s been replaced with collusion with the NAtional Enquirer.

    They’re still heavily investigating collusion with Wikileaks, but there’s really not much there.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  262. It’s been replaced with collusion with the NAtional Enquirer.

    They’re still heavily investigating collusion with Wikileaks, but there’s really not much there.

    Heck Rudy talked about this today. He said “collusion is not a crime, and the collusion was over by the time of the election”. That is Trump’s lawyer.

    So was there collusion? Trump’s lawyer says there was, but it’s not a crime, and it happened before the election, so it’s fine.

    Now, about the other investigations about state tax fraud, state money laundering, federal tax fraud, money laundering, illegal campaign contributions, obstruction of justice. You know, the ones unrelated to Mueller.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (459213)

  263. J Law can be that dumb, HF, but with Weinstein blacklisting Ashley Judd, he might have become an accidental conservative hero by depriving her of income that could have gone toward political office seeking.

    urbanleftbehind (3d4138)


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