Patterico's Pontifications

12/11/2018

Trump, Pelosi, Schumer And Their Public Spat Over Border Security

Filed under: General — Dana @ 3:59 pm



[guest post by Dana]

President Trump met with Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer today to discuss border security and a possible government shutdown if the President doesn’t get the wall funding he wants. And what Trump wants is $5 billion, and what the Democrats are offering 1.3 billion. Also in attendance was Vice President Mike Pence, who looked like he was deep in prayer, petitioning God to keep the long knives from coming out. As you can see from the video below – and you must watch the whole rancorous mess – Pelosi and Schumer worked hard to remain polite in spite of their obvious disdain for Trump. He is the tone-deaf Goofus to their self-righteous Gallant. Things became increasingly heated as Pelosi and Schumer lost sight of Trump’s ability to dig in when challenged about something he believes is right. And he doesn’t care who is watching. In fact, the more people watching, the better. And although Pelosi suggested that they take the discussion behind closed doors, the meeting continued until Trump decided it was enough. The frustrated look on Pelosi’s face at the end is really priceless:

The Washington Post reported on the skirmish:

President Trump, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer clashed Tuesday over funding for the border wall, an explosive Oval Office encounter that ended with Trump declaring he’d be proud to shut down the government to get what he wants.

The stunning public spat, during which Schumer accused the president of throwing a “temper tantrum,” ended with no resolution and appeared to increase the chances of a partial government shutdown at the end of next week, just before Christmas.

The three leaders pointed fingers, raised their voices and interrupted each other repeatedly as they fought over policy and politics, laying bare their differences for all to see.

Schumer lectured Trump that “Elections have consequences, Mr. President.”

Trump claimed that, because she is working to nail down the votes to become speaker, “Nancy’s in a situation where it’s not easy for her to talk right now.”

Pelosi retorted: “Please don’t characterize the strength that I bring to this meeting as the leader of the House Democrats who just won a big victory.”

Amusingly, after the parties went to their separate corners, Pelosi demonstrated her political skills as she cleverly targeted Trump’s Achilles heel: his masculinity:

“It’s like a manhood thing for him. As if manhood could ever be associated with him. This wall thing,” said the California congresswoman.

Pelosi (D-Calif.) made the remarks in a Democratic caucus committee meeting, which were recounted by an aide present who was not authorized to comment publicly.

Allahpundit lays out a likely strategy by Pelosi :

I think, it’s to bait Trump into digging in on the shutdown, which Dems think will be a winner for them politically. (Notice in the excerpt what Pelosi considers her “accomplishment” today to have been.) They’re probably right about that, too — not because the polling favors them, necessarily, but because congressional Republicans won’t want a protracted shutdown which they know going in will be blamed on the president. This is “Trump vs. Democrats” right now but soon enough it’ll be a “Trump vs. RINOs” thing. Insulting him personally is Pelosi’s way of making it harder for him to cave, at least early on, thus ensuring that intra-GOP squabble later.

Pelosi also told colleagues that she was ““trying to be the mom” in the room while Trump and Senate Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) bickered about the coming funding showdown.” Ugh. Stop it, Nancy. These men don’t need a mommy to corral them. Neither party is the civilized group of noblemen they pretend to be when in public. We know better. Personally, I’m all for seeing the warts fully exposed. Debate these vexing issues in a public setting more often, and let the Americans for whom they work, see how elected officials really conduct themselves, and let us hear specifically what claims they make, and the veracity of them. Exactly whose best interest is at heart?

Pelosi considered it a political victory that the president said he said he would be “…proud to shut down the government for border security . . . I will be the one to shut it down, I’m not going to blame you for it,” telling committee members:

“The fact is, we did get him to say, to fully own, that the shutdown was his,” she said, according to the aide. “That was an accomplishment.”

First, is it really a victory when you consider that Trump has no problem saying HUGE things when necessary and double-dog daring anyone as well. Anytime, anywhere. He is always willing to up the ante. But more importantly, to his base (and Americans) who want to see the border more secure, an effective wall in place, and the government doing its job to stem the flow of illegal immigration into our country, I suspect there was more cheering going on than Pelosi realized.

(Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.)

–Dana

133 Responses to “Trump, Pelosi, Schumer And Their Public Spat Over Border Security”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (023079)

  2. Benny
    @bennyjohnson
    Pelosi Says Trump Wants To Ruin ‘Christmas’ — Immediately Corrects Herself To Say ‘Holiday’

    harkin (1161c2)

  3. “It’s like a manhood thing for him. As if manhood could ever be associated with him. This wall thing,” said the California congresswoman.

    Snicker. Is true but is also case of pot’s Congresswoman calling kettle black.

    nk (dbc370)

  4. Trump does what he does on border security and immigration because he thinks noobody has a counterargument, whether or not anything he says is true.

    He will go on until Democrats succeed in making a substantive argument against building the wall. At least anyway one that he feels people will understand.

    (the simplest, partial argument is that it is the same argument against building one 10,000 feet high that airplanes or drones cannot fly over.

    The Democrats don’t want to get into the benefits of illegal immigration, but they can avoid that in discussing the WALL

    Here is a CATO argument

    https://www.cato.org/blog/14-most-common-arguments-against-immigration-why-theyre-wrong

    If you’re still worried about foreign-born consumption of welfare benefits, as I am, then it is far easier and cheaper to build a higher wall around the welfare state, instead of around the country.

    The only possible valid arguments against voluntary immigration are sociological and cultural, not economic.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  5. Reality TeeVee; always more heat than light– and always grand enertainment! But oh, that Pensive Pence; showing the kind of destiny leadership certain to make ‘America grate.’

    There’s a two-cent stamp in our future with your name on it, Mike!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  6. chuck and nancy have a delema the democrat base who came out and voted in droves want impeachment and confrontation. the donors want them to continue acting like establishment corporate stooges and a counter to ms. ocasio-cortez and her band of merry woman.

    lany (a70cc5)

  7. That video is what I call transparency. Warts have never looked better. Trump may not be the brain that the GOP needs, but he is certainly the backbone that they have lacked.

    felipe (023cc9)

  8. at the very least securing the border would give our joke military something constructive to do with their time and money

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  9. everybody needs a hobby

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  10. meanwhile google and sundar have been working hard to disenfranchise non-latinos so we can do google head lice all up in it

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  11. Pelosi isn’t particularly focused on public sanitation either, I guess that’s a manifestation of masculinity as well.

    Narciso (9f2ae4)

  12. speaking of head lice all up in it

    the takeaway from this video is that pelosi wants a shutdown so that the work of democratic slurp-noodle jheff fhlake continues

    even after he leaves office to spend more time with his disgustingly racist family

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  13. You know that Nancy Pelosi is going to be second in line for the Presidency on January 3, 2019?

    nk (dbc370)

  14. oh my goodness

    it’s a Mhitt Rhomney / Jheff Fhlake death match!

    Sen. Jeff Flake reintroduces bill to protect child sexual assault victims

    looks like Jheff Fhlake’s dead set on burning every last bridge

    with extreme prejudice (it’s the fhlake family way)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  15. Yes that’s a disturbing thought, like that hummus frappe (all sorts of wrong)

    Narciso (9f2ae4)

  16. People complain about Trump’s manner but I saw little difference him, Schumer and Pelosi.

    AZ Bob (885937)

  17. OT but Trumpish:

    U.S. District Judge James Otero signed an order today granting Trump $293,052.33 in attorneys’ fees and sanctions against Stephanie Clifford aka Stormy Daniels. Trump had sought $342k in fees and another $342k in sanctions, but ended up getting well less than half that much.

    Judge Otero upheld the princely hourly rates sought by Trump’s lawyers after making the appropriate “lodestone” calculations, writing that “the Court agrees with Defendant that his attorneys are incredibly qualified, and that the law firm of Harder LLP has specific expertise in the fields of media and defamation law.” (A quotation of that particular line is likely to go on the firm’s website without hours.)

    He also agreed with Trump’s lawyers that they were entitled to fees for their work on the motion to transfer the case from NY, where it was originally filed, to CA, and likewise for their fees in preparing their fee application after Judge Otero, applying Texas law (because Stormy’s a Texas citizen) granted Trump’s anti-SLAPP motion and dismissed Stormy’s defamation claim as a strategic lawsuit to limit Trump’s exercise of his First Amendment rights.

    However, in part because they’re so damned smart, Judge Otero decided that Trump’s lawyers could and should have been more economical and efficient, so he trimmed their total fee request by 25% across-the-board: “[G]iven the sophistication of counsel and their substantial billing rates, this case should have been litigated much more efficiently without sacrificing quality.”

    And Judge Otero imposed only a token $1000 in additional sanctions (citations omitted):

    While recognizing that some Texas courts have doubled attorneys’ fees to deter frivolous SLAPP litigation, the Court declines to impose significant additional sanctions here. Plaintiff is liable to Defendant for substantial attorneys’ fees, which is already a means to deter her from bringing SLAPP litigation in the future….

    Moreover, Plaintiff is presently seeking to withdraw her other defamation claim that is before this Court, and Plaintiff has not taken legal action against Defendant despite rhetorically hyperbolic statements that Defendant has made about Plaintiff in the recent past Plaintiff’s unwillingness to resort to litigation in light of Defendant’s continuing use of rhetorical hyperbole suggests that Plaintiff is already being deterred from filing meritless defamation claims.

    Avenatti vows to appeal and claims that he’ll win even more than this amount for Stormy in their still-pending litigation to void the NDA that Cohen set up; but even in the Ninth Circuit, he and his client will almost certainly lose, and indeed, they’ll likely face a further attempt by Trump’s lawyers to get their fees for responding to the appeal.

    Careful readers with very good memories may recall that even before Trump’s lawyers submitted their fee request, I made this prediction in comments here on October 15:

    I’m guessing $80k on the low end, $250k on the high end ….

    Which is not to say that you should always trust content from Beldar, but that you could do substantially worse.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  18. 17… Schumer could use some lessons in maintaining healthy posture, among other things.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  19. 8… amen, felipe!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  20. Nice work, Beldar the Farseeing. Am I correct that (unlike Illinois) only a nominal bond is required in federal court in order to bring the appeal? A substantial bond is required only if the plaintiff wants the judgment stayed?

    nk (dbc370)

  21. I also agree with felipe that Trump had the better of it. And I think that Nancy knows it too.

    nk (dbc370)

  22. BTW, further to #18 above: The court order that Stormy pay Trump $293k is not self-executing, and Trump’s lawyers may have a very hard time actually collecting any money in hand. There could well be further discovery proceedings in aid of execution — that is, efforts by Trump’s attorneys to make Stormy list her assets and their location. Trump can seize bank accounts and vacation properties and the like, but nothing that’s protected under her homestead exemption under the Texas Constitution, which is comparatively generous. I recommend that Donny Jr. follow her from show to show with a big bag to stuff the $1 bills into.

    Moreover, even though Judge Otero has approved their billing rates, that doesn’t oblige Trump to actually pay those rates to his lawyers. He’s notorious — I mean, seriously notorious — for stiffing his own lawyers.

    So while Trump and his lawyers are likely to claim this ruling as another victory — and it is, broadly speaking — it’s not going to put any Big Macs directly onto Trump’s table in the short term.

    I likewise wouldn’t be surprised to see Stormy find some new “white knight” to replace Avenatti, which would be a smart decision on her part.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  23. Related to the subject of the post, Trump upped the ante to the press prior his meeting with Pelosi and Schumer:

    If the Democrats do not give us the votes to secure our Country, the Military will build the remaining sections of the Wall. They know how important it is!”

    Dana (023079)

  24. That video is what I call transparency. Warts have never looked better. Trump may not be the brain that the GOP needs, but he is certainly the backbone that they have lacked.

    That was my reaction.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  25. felipe @ 8,

    The goal of the GOP has to be to find someone who has both the necessary smarts, as well as a backbone for 2020. Being strong in one but not the other just isn’t enough anymore. Romney had the brains but not the backbone. Cruz had the brains, but we came to find out that he also lacked backbone. Etc. I can’t think of anyone on the horizon who might fit the bill.

    Dana (023079)

  26. Shouldn’t he be threatening to shut down the government of Mexico?

    Dave (1bb933)

  27. According to this, Schumer referred to Trump’s behavior during the meeting as a “temper tantrum,” and said that throwing one will not get him the wall:

    “This temper tantrum that he seems to throw will not get him his wall.”

    I didn’t see a temper tantrum. I saw two Democrats trying to persuade and manipulate a president who pleasantly said he wasn’t interested. It’s also so cheap, thus unsurprising that Pelosi and Schumer claimed they didn’t like the “reality TV” feel of the meeting because of all the media present, and yet immediately marched straight to the media when the meeting ended to express their heartfelt disappointment. And Nancy said she asked Trump to pray over it (the shutdown)…

    These people.

    Dana (023079)

  28. @29. It was pure, cornered, defensive Queeg.

    “Captain, we’ve steamed over our own tow line.”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  29. Mexico’s govt doesn’t work on a good day, law enforcement is horribly outnumbered their resource development is half baked at best.
    Rogue units (working for the local cartel) dispatched the 47 students

    Narciso (9f2ae4)

  30. What we saw was Mommy and Daddy trying to get Junior to eat his peas and carrots. And he just wouldn’t. All that was missing was the high chair.

    “I don’t wanna! I don’t have to! And Mexico will pay for the wall!!”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  31. I don’ theenk so. I theenk so we saw two old Democrat hacks butt their heads against a wall and come away more addled than usual with only name-calling to offer to their nattering nabobs of negativism in the newsrooms.

    nk (dbc370)

  32. Then you have the Zetas this cartel is a militia composed of the best trained Mexican special forces troops combined with the more ruthless of guatemalan airborne the kaibiles.

    Narciso (9f2ae4)

  33. Al queda in its infancy contained at least one Egyptian special forces officer, at least one other became a top level commander saif al adel.

    Narciso (9f2ae4)

  34. There’s a pipeline probably from the triple frontier in south America through Panama probably all the way to the border, just like the path from Syria led to Bataclan and the UK this a deadly serious thing

    Narciso (9f2ae4)

  35. What we saw was Mommy and Daddy trying to get Junior to eat his peas and carrots. And he just wouldn’t. All that was missing was the high chair.

    He still managed to launch the sippy-cup a few times though…

    Dave (1bb933)

  36. Good. Divided government.

    Paul Montagu (8d207c)

  37. Con Don should have known that his best chance to get his Wall, without a massive concession in the form of some sort of compromise, was to get it done before the election. But Mr. Full-of-Himself couldn’t face the fact that most people don’t really like him and he was going to lose the House. So now he’ll pay a big price.

    Oh well, at least he should be well accustomed to being compromised. He has been since day 1.

    Tillman (61f3c8)

  38. I didn’t see a temper tantrum.

    Yeah, about that:

    Los Angeles Times White House correspondent Eli Stokols reported Tuesday that President Trump “stormed out” of the Oval Office after his contentious meeting with Democratic leaders and threw a folder full of papers out of frustration.

    “He stormed out of the Oval, walked into an anteroom just off the Oval Office and had in his hand a folder of briefing papers. And he just scattered them out of frustration — threw them across the room,” Stokols said on MSNBC’s “Hardball,” citing his own reporting with White House officials.

    Yep, sounds like a tantrum.

    Tillman (61f3c8)

  39. Apparently the link about the Strasbourg shooter has been shadowbanned.

    Narciso (9f2ae4)

  40. Oh well, if the Dog Trainer scribe reports it then we just know it has to be legit. [You can’t see my eyes rolling all the way up in my head here.] Surely he wouldn’t mischaracterize it based upon his own biases, would he?

    JVW (42615e)

  41. And as for the awful video, I can’t think of three more annoying people to have a conversation of this magnitude. That said, I agree that negotiations should be televised — bring in Cocaine Mitch and let him just sit back and laugh his way through this preening festival of gasbaggery. Maybe no one will come out to vote in 2020 in that case and we can shutter up Washington and turn it into a giant homeless encampment.

    JVW (42615e)

  42. JVW sez “Fake news!” as if that’s original.

    Tillman (61f3c8)

  43. JVW sez “Fake news!” as if that’s original.

    I say, without any hesitation, that I am not going to take a Dog Trainer reporter’s word where a judgement on a Republican politician is concerned. But I suppose you believe everything you read in the media, provided it bolsters what you already were inclined to believe.

    You do know a bit about the history of this blog and the Los Angeles Times, do you not?

    JVW (42615e)

  44. I see the usual leftwing kvetching…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  45. That was around strzok and page were reassigned right, after Horowitz had been selected.

    Narciso (9f2ae4)

  46. Sorry that was regarding another thread.

    Narciso (9f2ae4)

  47. Pelosi and Schumer knew they lost which is why they wanted to move it to closed doors.

    Period. End stop.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  48. Doesn’t that just say it all,

    Narciso (9f2ae4)

  49. Vice-President Pence really ought to unbutton his suit jacket before he sits down.

    JVW (42615e)

  50. @44. Yep. What a ‘great’ recruitment ad for the Chief of Staff gig. The nasty brat in full Queeg mode, defensive, in denial, and all but throwing fists full of the Maypo around the room. Imagine sitting through meetings for hours, month after month, being subjected to those kind of irrational tirades. It turned Pence into a mush-filled mannequin. Sail on, Captain, sir!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  51. @56. OT- JVW, if you get a chance, visit the NASA TV website and catch the replay of the Apollo 8 celebrations this evening at the National Cathedral. It was stellar.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  52. shut the government down I can go a month with out my social security check and medicare being paid for. too bad about border patrol agents and military not being paid for christmas ;but hey lives tough!

    lany (a70cc5)

  53. BTW, further to #18 above: Shannon Bream reported tonight on her Fox News late program that the judge awarded $100,000 in sanctions. I double-checked the order, and that report is wrong; the sanctions award was $1000, as I said above, and which the opinion expressly noted was not a substantial amount.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  54. poor stormy has to pay up now she won’t have enough money for her fungus treatments (red itchy fungus)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  55. shut the gubmint down and build me a wall, g.d. it.

    mg (8cbc69)

  56. after watching chuck and nancy now I know where all the rinos manners come from.

    mg (8cbc69)

  57. 5.6 billion in cash on a pallet for the religion of pos. Nothing for a border wall. Someone needs to be shot.

    mg (8cbc69)

  58. Trump should demand that speaker of the knife in the back ryan disclose all of congress hush money for sex payments be made public. Right f-cking now.

    mg (8cbc69)

  59. Professional baby killer judge kavanaugh loves him some dead babies. Planned Parenthoods new lifeline. What a disgrace this pos is.

    mg (8cbc69)

  60. harvard teaches people that the constitution is toilet paper that’s what harvard teaches

    and the weak-minded trash that go to school there they

    lick

    it

    up

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  61. In other news, the Visigoths say they’ll end the siege of Rome if we pay them $50,000 each to turn around and go home.

    Our asylum law has to be the stupidest one on the books. Once they get in as refugees, they get free housing, food stamps, free medical care, and a cash allowance even while their applications are still pending. Why should they wait in line for a regular visa?

    nk (dbc370)

  62. It’s an injunction mg, as with the immigration pause.

    Narciso (d79103)

  63. Trump could have shown backbone and not engaged like that.

    Paul Montagu (8d207c)

  64. mg (8cbc69) — 12/12/2018 @ 4:14 am
    Maybe you missed this.

    felipe (5b25e2)

  65. Ill ride with Justice Thomas.

    mg (8cbc69)

  66. The Supreme Court hears only eighty cases per term, not counting all the “emergencies” which are thrown at them. For every case important enough to deserve four votes for cert, there has to be another case just as important which will not be heard. Ax yourselves which case Thomas, Alito and Gorsuch don’t want heard but Kavanaugh and Thomas do.

    nk (dbc370)

  67. Kananaugh and *Roberts*

    nk (dbc370)

  68. Except it was Roberts and cavanaugh in this case, not willing to establish new paramaters.

    Narciso (6523ec)

  69. Yaaargh! Kavanaugh! See how upset you’ve made me? I’m typing like narciso.

    nk (dbc370)

  70. What if instead of a preliminary issue that the Circuits are not in conflict with, the case Roberts and Kavanaugh want to hear is the denial of a marriage license to a fifty-year old man and a fifteen-year old boy out of West Hollywood? (I know, I know, LA County would never deny such a licence but just suppose for the sake of argument.)

    nk (dbc370)

  71. Trump’s alternate universe, visibly displayed in yesterday’s confab/melee, keeps butting up against reality. If Trump keeps churning out all this “FAKE NEWS” then, by his own “logic”, does that not make him an “enemy of the people”?

    Paul Montagu (8d207c)

  72. Snorfle! Trump showed the world what a couple of worthless hacks Pelosi and Schumet are, from any perspective, whether the patriotic one to defend our country or the libtard one to stand up to Trump, and now the libtard community is frantically groping for damage control.

    nk (dbc370)

  73. it wasn’t even a very long meeting and all nancy can talk about is President Trump’s penis

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  74. So it would seem pikachu Pelosi is the Italian version of Merkel (despite the latts era is on the right) and Schumer is like the creepy luxembourger with the nazi uncle

    Narciso (6523ec)

  75. They cant come up with 5 billion, that’s a rounding error in a 2.2 trillion dollar budget

    Narciso (6523ec)

  76. Wall Bonds.

    mg (8cbc69)

  77. we could just cancel the humiliating afghanistan fiasco and use those monies to build a really fun and exciting wall

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  78. I’d take away the Medicare of the oldest 5%.

    nk (dbc370)

  79. The preponderance of elective surgery, e.g., shoulder, hip, knee that elderly patients suffering aches/pains brought on by old age are often steered toward by shady doctors is definitely a thing.

    Colonel Haiku (0d51ee)

  80. Muh Collusion!

    Colonel Haiku (0d51ee)

  81. This unfiltered back-and-forth between Trump and Pelosi reminds me a little of Hal Weidman’s “screening” in America’s Sweethearts, with Nancy Pelosi as Gwen Harrison and Trump as Hector Gorgonzolas, where Gwen describes Hector’s penis as like a “roll of quarters.” and Hector pushes back with “almost too well-endowed. I’ve had complaints. Literally.”

    Paul Montagu (8d207c)

  82. BTW, further to #18 above: Shannon Bream reported tonight on her Fox News late program that the judge awarded $100,000 in sanctions. I double-checked the order, and that report is wrong; the sanctions award was $1000, as I said above, and which the opinion expressly noted was not a substantial amount.

    It is, however, precisely the level that triggers self-reporting to the State Bar:

    Imposition of judicial sanctions
    Attorneys are required to self-report the imposition of judicial sanctions ($1,000 or more).

    Patterico (115b1f)

  83. , https://terumi.club/view/de12a837 dating_dk_stop_sms_medlemskab, https://vortrex.info/tools/paste/ elsker_dig_for_evigt_film, https://pasted.cf/view/241670ee retrouver_une_personne_supprime_sur_tinder,

    Bhifupxn (e308a3)

  84. You know when some one comes through that border from perhaps the camp in Darien, and kills a couple of hundred people, that wont be nearly as amusing. We know there was an Islamic state hitman living in Oakland for the better

    Narciso (f4d8ff)

  85. Of two years, someone the DHS scribbler left off that memo.

    Narciso (f4d8ff)

  86. mg (8cbc69) — 12/12/2018 @ 5:55 am

    Quite right, mg.

    felipe (5b25e2)

  87. Beldar: hard time collecting, meaning they will want a certified bank check rather than wads of soiled $1 bills?

    Trump after 2 years of pointlessly trusting things to Congressional Republicans can see the writing on The Wall: without The Wall he is political toast in 2020. Really all he has to show for these last 2 years legislatively is 2 great SCOTUS picks and a GOPe tax bill that doesn’t really help anyone in the middle. Ryan and McConnell made a mess of Obamacare repeal. Trump needs The Wall.

    Can hope the Dems nominate another awful candidate, but it’s not a given. And said Dem candidate has significant Electoral College advantages just showing up. Trump by contrast has to hold hie 2016 states, meaning he has to keep his base energized. And hope the influx of of liberals and newbies to formerly solid red states like Florida, Arizona and Texas don’t cost him those states.

    Bugg (bfaf99)

  88. Bugg (bfaf99) — 12/12/2018 @ 7:47 am

    I find your comment persuasive.

    felipe (5b25e2)

  89. It really is outrageous the way Pelosi and Schumer treated President Trump – after all that money he donated to them just a few year ago!

    Dave (1bb933)

  90. Can hope the Dems nominate another awful candidate, but it’s not a given.

    Unfortunately it kind of is…

    Dave (1bb933)

  91. speaking of baby bump all up it

    leggy meggy has one job – being an obedient and dutiful breeding implement

    and she can’t even do that without being goony about it

    no wonder everybody hates her

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  92. OT: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5526092/DEFENDANT-s-MEMORANDUM.pdf


    At 12:35 p.m. on January 24, 2017, the first Tuesday after the presidential inauguration, General Flynn received a phone call from then-Deputy Director of the FBI, Andrew McCarthy Cabe, on a secure phone in his office in the West Wing.20 General Flynn had for many years been accustomed to working in cooperation with the FBI on matters of national security. He and Mr. McCabe briefly discussed a security training session the FBI had recently conducted at the White House before Mr. McCabe, by his own account, stated that he “felt that we needed to have two of our agents sit down” with General Flynn to talk about his communications with Russian representatives.

    Mr. McCabe’s account states: “I explained that I thought the quickest way to get this done was to have a conversation between [General Flynn] and the agents only. I further stated that if LTG Flynn wished to include anyone else in the meeting, like the White House Counsel for instance, that I would need to involve the Department of Justice. [General Flynn] stated that this would not be necessary and agreed to meet with the agents without any additional participants.”

    Less than two hours later, at 2:15 p.m., FBI Deputy Assistant Director Peter Strzok and a second FBI agent arrived at the White House to interview General Flynn.23 By the agents’ account, General Flynn was “relaxed and jocular” and offered to give the agents “a little tour” of the area around his West Wing office. The agents did not provide General Flynn with a warning of the penalties for making a false statement under 18 U.S.C. § 1001 before, during, or after the interview. Prior to the FBI’s interview of General Flynn, Mr. McCabe and other FBI officials “decided the agents would not warn Flynn that it was a crime to lie during an FBI interview because they wanted Flynn to be relaxed, and they were concerned that giving the warnings might adversely affect the rapport,” one of the agents reported. Before the interview, FBI officials had also decided that, if “Flynn said he did not remember something they knew he said, they would use the exact words Flynn used, . . . to try to refresh his recollection. If Flynn still would not confirm what he said, . . . they would not confront him or talk him through it.”One of the agents reported that General Flynn was “unguarded” during the interview and “clearly saw the FBI agents as allies.”

    Munroe (81e75f)

  93. Nobody cares about Meghan being a breeding implement for Harry except the British Tourism Board, happyfeet. Harry and his lineage will never be in the line of succession for reasons that they will never tells us but a DNA test would.

    nk (dbc370)

  94. Harry and his lineage will never be in the line of succession for reasons that they will never tells us but a DNA test would.

    His mother’s natural hair color.

    Her brother.

    Her sister.

    “If you do not apologize to Lady Honoria,” Marcus said, his voice so mild as to be terrifying, “I will kill you.”

    There was a collective gasp, and Daisy faked a swoon, sliding elegantly into Iris, who promptly stepped aside and let her hit the floor.

    “Oh, come now,” Mr. Grimston said. “Surely it won’t come to pistols at dawn.”

    “I’m not talking about a duel,” Marcus said. “I mean I will kill you right here.”

    Dave (1bb933)

  95. Dave, your words for the day are matrilineage and paternity.

    nk (dbc370)

  96. the whole concept of royalty’s ridiculous it can’t possibly go on much longer

    once that nasty old queen kicks off so will the last shred of respectability that trashy family has to its name

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  97. If you view them “For Entertainment Purposes Only”, they’re no worse than Duck Dynasty.

    nk (dbc370)

  98. prince charles thinks he’s al gore with a tiara

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  99. Dave:

    I thought nk’s snark was directed at the relationship to Prince Charles, not the relationship to Lady Di.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  100. 108 —

    Nah. Al Gore thinks he’s Prince Charles with a gut and occasional facial hair.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  101. @ nk, re your #21: I frankly don’t know about superseding this order pending appeal. But I imagine that Avenatti & Co. are frantically trying to figure that out.

    @ Patterico, re your #90: That $1k trigger is interesting indeed, but does it apply only when the lawyer is sanctioned instead of, or along with, his client? This order by its terms only runs against Stormy, not Avenatti, even though in terms of subjective blameworthiness, he’s likely more deserving of punishment than she is.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  102. well to Bugg’s point – a fissure within the Democratic Party might occur on the citizenship question – the Rust Belt states might want to keep a seat that they would lose to TX, AZ, FL (CA might have slowed to break even without the question, lose up to 4 with the question).

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  103. and dont insult the Visigoths

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  104. well to Bugg’s point – a fissure within the Democratic Party might occur on the citizenship question – the Rust Belt states might want to keep a seat that they would lose to TX, AZ, FL (CA might have slowed to break even without the question, lose up to 4 with the question).

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb) — 12/12/2018 @ 11:08 am

    To some extent, this already happened and is why Trump is the president today.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  105. I thought nk’s snark was directed at the relationship to Prince Charles, not the relationship to Lady Di.

    Red hair is a recessive trait, meaning you can only have it if both parents carry the gene, and neither parent may be red-headed themselves. The suggestion that Harry’s red hair tells us anything about his paternity is absurd.

    Also, the James Hewitt thing has been debunked ad nauseum:

    There is ample evidence that Harry, born September 15th 1984, was conceived over Christmas 1983, which the Royal Family then spent at Windsor before travelling on to Sandringham for the annual shoots on the estate. Diana was with the royal party the whole time. The idea that Major Hewitt managed to scale the ramparts of Windsor Castle to impregnate the Princess of Wales is beyond ridiculous. Hewitt did not even begin his affair with Diana until autumn 1986.

    And furthermore:

    Dave, your words for the day are matrilineage and paternity.

    *bites thumb*

    :)

    Dave (1bb933)

  106. So looking to the future…. Terrance Howard, Pat Mahomes, Maya Rudolf or Rashida Jones?

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  107. Dave:

    I’m married to a redhead. One who has about 25 or 50 times the Indian ancestry that Ms. Warren has, but who looks like a fair Celtic English lass. I know about the recessive trait thing.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  108. By chance, your wife is not Oklahoman? What you describe seems commonplace there.

    urbanleftbehind (3d4138)

  109. No. The native american piece comes from Florida ancestors.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  110. @ Dave, re recessive redhead genes: I have a red-headed sister, and both my grandfathers were red-heads, but my original hair (which turned gray early and is now finally turning loose) was jet black, over a phosphorescently pale complexion that resisted any attempts at tanning. “Black Irish,” the combination is sometimes called. But my beard and other post-puberty body hair was a calico mix of red and black, which I’m told is the partial expression, through secondary sex characteristics, of the otherwise masked recessive redhead genes that obviously run through my family. My own four offspring have the dark brown hair of their mother; but none of us would be surprised by a redheaded grandchild.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  111. Lawyer Harder et alia, on Trump’s behalf (and surely Trump loves having a lawyer named “Harder,” amIright?), may also have been waiting to read this ruling on their fee award and sanctions request before deciding whether to try to upscale it into an attempt to hold Avenatti personally liable, along with his client, as an additional sanction under Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 11(b). That’s the rule which says that by signing a pleading in federal court, a lawyer is “certif[ying] that to the best of the [signing lawyer’s] knowledge, information, and belief, formed after an inquiry reasonable under the circumstances,” the court filing isn’t for an improper purpose such as harassment, and that the claims made in it are warranted by existing law (or a nonfrivolous argument for extending it), and that there is evidentiary support for the factual statements being made in it. Rule 11 is the most obvious and direct path to try to get Avenatti personally on the hook.

    But the $1k token sanction may have been intended, and certainly should be read by Harder & Co., as a signal that Judge Otero’s not planning on serious punishment beyond the fee award (which is itself, of course, translates into almost 15,000 lap dances at $20 per). Judge Otero has the power to invoke Rule 11 on his own motion, but didn’t, and he hasn’t made any other direct or indirect comments on Avenatti as distinct from his client that might invite a Rule 11 motion from Harder & Co.

    And the size of Avenatti’s potential conflicts of interest with Stormy has just multiplied geometrically, based on her potential malpractice claims against him, which includes among her potential damages an indemnification claim for the entire award to Trump. While such conflicts are theoretically waivable by a fully-informed client, to continue representing her he would have to make excruciatingly specific new disclosures to her of how their interests might be different for such a waiver to be valid.

    And far more likely, she’s going to find a new, different lawyer, whose two-fold job will be to (a) sue Avenatti for malpractice, and to (b) try to work out a new deal with Trump that will settle the remaining NDA litigation (probably with a new & better NDA) in exchange for future cooperation with Trump and some temporary forbearance on collection of the $293k fee & sanctions award.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  112. Harder is the one who blasted Gawker into little pieces like alderaan.

    Narciso (75d59a)

  113. “He was standing up and saying ‘we’re going to keep our promise, we’re gonna secure border, we’re gonna build the wall. I’ll tell you one of the surest indications on how unhappy the Democrats were in that exchange is over and over again Nancy Pelosi says, ‘can we turn the TV cameras off? We are not supposed to be doing this publicly.’ You can tell they’re on the losing end of the argument when she’s scared that cameras are showing that she and the Democrats are for open borders and the president is fighting to do what the American people want which is secure the border, build the wall and keep our country safe.”

    https://dailycaller.com/2018/12/11/ted-cruz-nancy-pelosi-cameras-scared/

    Colonel Haiku (0d51ee)

  114. Dave, you like 1) rebutting arguments people never made with 2) non sequitors it seems to me.
    1. I never mentioned Harry’s red hair.
    2. I never mentioned James Hewitt. Were he and Charles the only men in the world? Were there no butlers, no footmen, no valets? No chauffeurs, chefs, or kitchen boys? No gamekeepers, horse grooms, stableboys, or gardeners?
    3. It doesn’t matter how much like mummy Harry looks, the Hat comes from daddy’s side of the family.

    And here’s the telling argument: Would the British Tourism Board have allowed Harry to marry a divorced American actress if it were not res judicata that he was a throwaway child?

    nk (dbc370)

  115. Hey, I didn’t know “dictator’s buttboy” was a homophobic slur. Mika should know all about dictators’ buttboys — her daddy was Brezhnev’s for three years. Let the lady give us the benefit of her expertise.

    nk (dbc370)

  116. well the granddaughter of prime minister benes, and a polish prince would be more sensible, or is this like the Victoria problem,

    narciso (d1f714)

  117. Oh, and one more thing, Dave. Max Brand was a better writer than Julia Quinn:

    “What is Christmas?” says the judge, sort of to himself. “You never had it explained?”

    “Never put in time in a school,” says I, feeling mighty awkward with my hands and my feet when I said it.

    “Oh,” says the judge. He seemed to be thinking of something else. Finally he says: “Most people don’t have to go to school to learn what it is, you know.” Then he busts out with a frown, getting a little red: “it’s the birthday of Christ, my friend.”

    He had me floored again, but I was too foxy to let him know it. I’d heard that name used for the inside lining of some fancy swearing, but in no other connection.

    “Oh,” says I, “is that all?”

    “Is that all?” says he, speaking sort of quick, as though I’d pinched his watch. Isn’t that enough?”

    “Don’t get sore,” says I.

    He give his chin a rub and stared at me. It looked like I was getting deeper with everything I said. I offered him the makings of another cigarette, but he didn’t seem to see or hear me. His mind was on something else.

    “Do you know when Christ was born?” he asks me.

    I had a quick think, then I took a chance. “Sure,” says I. “Before the war?”

    nk (dbc370)

  118. Latest Wall hotness:

    What if Chuck and Nancy agree to match every dollar Trump gets for the wall from Mexico?

    That seems more than fair, considering he originally promised Mexico would pay for 100% of it.

    Dave (1bb933)

  119. Heh! Let’s see how that works out for them.

    nk (dbc370)

  120. What if Chuck and Nancy agree to match every dollar Trump gets for the wall from Mexico?

    The Dems have it all wrong. As I wrote here, they should roll the dice and give Trump every penny he wants, as long as his name is deeply and indelibly etched into that wall.

    Paul Montagu (0b79a9)


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