Patterico's Pontifications

6/25/2018

Maxine Waters: Hassle Trump Cabinet Members in Public

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:25 am

Self-righteousness is the most dangerous human emotion.

And if you see anybody from that cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd. And you push back on them. And you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere!

This is wrong. Jim Geraghty has a good take at National Review:

Angry mobs are not good for deterring a particular unwanted behavior. They are good for instilling fear and giving a lot of people an excuse to let out all of their antisocial or violent impulses with a thin patina of moral righteousness. “I’m not harassing and assaulting another human being, I’m standing up for human rights!” No doubt the man who tried to kill as many GOP congressmen as he could at the baseball field in Alexandria, Va., believed he was standing up for good causes and doing the right thing.

Harassment of public figures on the right is only going to lead to harassment of public figures on the left. No doubt everyone remembers their own favorite example of a breach of decorum and proper behavior: the guy in the Miami cheesecake factory, Joe Wilson shouting out “you lie!” at an Obama address to Congress, the man who dumped a beer on a lawmaker in a bar, the guy who harangued Ivanka Trump on a flight. The fake blood thrown at the private home of an NRA lobbyist. The guy who threw water at Tomi Lahren in a restaurant in New York. The audience disruptions at Julius C[ae]sar and Robert De Niro’s A Bronx Tale.

Some no doubt would argue that the president himself threw gasoline on this fire. At a rally in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, in February 2016, Trump said, “If you see somebody getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them, would you? Seriously, okay. Just knock the hell — I promise you I will pay for the legal fees, I promise.” And then in Saint Louis a month later, Trump lamented that no one sufficiently hurts protesters at his speeches: “Nobody wants to hurt each other anymore, right? And they’re being politically correct the way they take them out, so it takes a little bit longer. And honestly, protesters, they realize it. They realize that there are no consequences to protesting anymore.”

I’ll quibble with Geraghty’s citation of Joe Wilson, who did nothing but yell out the truth when he yelled out that Obama lied. But notice how (if you take Wilson’s nonviolent breach of decorum out of it), in that litany of threats and violence, virtually everything comes from the left. You could also talk about Charles Murray and the violent assault on his companion Allison Stanger (Geraghty does), or the protests and arrests at Berkeley surrounding a talk by Ben Shapiro, and outright violence surrounding a talk by Milo LongGreekName. All this anti-speech screaming and threats comes from the left and only the left…

…except for Trump, and his superfans (the folks at the DeNiro movie and Julius Caesar performance). Which makes his superfans cheer, and the rest of us shake our heads in disgust, that we have the equivalent of a Maxine Waters on “our side.”

If Maxine Waters cited Trump’s attempts to incite violence as justification for her own outrageous comments, saying something like “he wrote the New Rules, we’re just making him play by them” — she would still be wrong. If a bunch of conservatives yelled at Maxine Waters in a restaurant, I could see how they might feel justified — but they would still just be a bunch of loudmouth punks hassling someone in a restaurant.

The way to deal with the Maxine Waters crowd is to shine a light on them. Call them out at every opportunity. Ask every Democrat official you can whether they agree with her that cabinet members should be harassed in public.

If you are determined to “punch back twice as hard” (as our beloved former President once said), you’re using the actions of a few crazies on the other side to justify bad behavior that you want to engage in anyway. The people who carry out Maxine Waters’s exhortations are scum. The people who use those exhortations as an excuse aren’t much better.

Let me put it another way, and I’ll be blunt. If Maxine Waters dictates how you behave, you weren’t raised right.

[Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.]

272 Responses to “Maxine Waters: Hassle Trump Cabinet Members in Public”

  1. RASSA-FRASSIN YOSEMITE SAM DISAGREES! AND IF IT WASN’T FER THE WOMENFOLK WE WOULDN’T BE IN ALL THIS HERE TRUBBLE!

    Patterico (115b1f)

  2. Disturbing subject. Hysterical comment.

    Simon Jester (99147b)

  3. This tells me why I have accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and my Savior.

    Because if I didn’t have Christ telling me not to, well.

    Instead I pray for her.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  4. It’s the reflexive reaction, Steve57. I had it too. She deserves to suffer.

    But it’s not right, and we know in our hearts it’s not right. If we admire Dr. King, who renounced violence despite its raining on his head; if we are followers of Christ who try to be like him; we can’t behave this way.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  5. I just want one reporter to ask Maxine if separate lunch counters would do the trick.

    harkin (e5c973)

  6. Hold out the godmother of the crips, the one who spread Gary Webb’s libel about the cia, why she has proven so responsible in the past.

    Narciso (4e7045)

  7. Isn’t there some kind of law about “hassling” federal officials for being federal officials? Intimidation or something? I heard a bunch of people in Oregon were prosecuted for it and one was even shot by the FBI while resisting arrest.

    nk (dbc370)

  8. In this world, the attacker gets to dictate behaviors. They bring a knife with intent, I am going to do what I can to stop them. If I can inflict punishment, all the better. I am not going to turn to them and accept the blade.

    Waters and her ilk must be answered, separated, and silenced. This can be done in the here and now with good wishes that these criminals’ souls be saved for the hereafter.

    I do not wish them well in this realm. Why on this earth would I wish purveyors of evil well?! I can, and do, hope for their repentance. I do not expect it.

    Ed from SFV (6d42fa)

  9. Right, when will that happen, look a unicorn,

    Narciso (4e7045)

  10. Ask every Democrat official you can whether they agree with her that cabinet members should be harassed in public.

    Yeah, who knows, you might find a Democrat or two that will call it out. But definitely don’t ask Bush supporting NeverTrumpers like Ana Navarro.

    http://dailycaller.com/2018/06/23/ana-navarro-sanders-accomplice-trump/

    random viking (6a54c2)

  11. The craziest thing about Waters call for intimidation of federal employees is the way the msm are presenting it as something Trump started.

    harkin (e5c973)

  12. You mean the way Geraghty presents It, yeah crazy.

    Narciso (4e7045)

  13. This brief paragraph from Geraghty caught my attention.

    How exactly does Maxine Waters think this is going to shake out?

    This presumes that Ms. Waters actually thought it through.

    Paul Montagu (0b5bee)

  14. Damn straight! https://youtu.be/_tSuZDp2gZo

    Colonel Haiku (59ae41)

  15. Serve You Right to Suffer

    Serve you right to suffer
    Serve you right to be alone
    Serve you right to suffer
    Serve you right to be alone
    Because you’re still livin’
    In days done past and gone
    Everytime you see teh Trump man
    He make you crazier in teh head
    Yeah, everytime you see that Trump man
    He make you crazier in yo head
    And that’s why, that’s why, that’s why
    You can’t keep from screamin’
    Your doctor put you on
    Xanax and alcohol
    Your doctor put you on
    Xanax and alcohol
    He told you that’s why
    You can’t sleep at night
    From nerves, so bad
    Yeah.
    Serve you right to suffer, baby
    Serve you right to be alone

    Colonel Haiku (59ae41)

  16. it’s not just Ana Navarro

    propaganda slut Jennifer Rubin’s on board with Maxine too

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  17. this mean girl style bullying is inherently womanish i think

    and it’s of a piece with how the trashy metoo women have been behaving as well

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  18. And this guy still trying to thread the needle – I think he just wants to be the 78-year old “uniter” like Bush of ’88 six years from now:

    http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/commentary/2018/06/24/mitt-romney-where-i-stand-on-the-trump-agenda/

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  19. Meh. It’s self-evident Waters wasn’t raised Right.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  20. Pat, the sun does not go down on my anger. I let it go.

    This is probably the only the second time I will talk of my prayer.

    http://www.newsweek.com/isis-fighters-iraq-killed-wild-boars-ambush-civilians-589816

    Three militants loyal to the Islamic State group (ISIS) have been killed by wild boars as they planned to ambush Iraqi tribesmen opposed to the group, according to a local anti-ISIS leader.

    At least eight ISIS fighters had reportedly taken cover among dense reeds in Iraq’s al-Rashad region, about 55 miles southwest of Kirkuk, in preparation for a surprise attack on local anti-ISIS tribesman when a herd of wild boars attacked the jihadists on Sunday, killing three…

    My first reaction was to laugh. My immediate second reaction was to pray that they turn away rom their evil. Because the line between good and evil is through the human heart. I am capable of everything they are capable of. I choose not to.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  21. Anyone finish looking into Mad Maxine’s bank fraud yet?

    NJRob (b00189)

  22. The only thing preventing many of us here from getting the exact same treatment is an inability to match one’s face to one’s political leanings in real time.

    Combine facial recognition technology with social media data mining and that problem will be solved, sooner than you think.

    And, if you think only Trump supporters will be the target, you will see that naive theory tested and go down in a ball of flames.

    random viking (6a54c2)

  23. The LORD says to go into your innermost room. That those who stand in the center of the temple and pray loudly have already received their reward.

    There will not be a forth time.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  24. and outright violence surrounding a talk by Milo LongGreekName.

    Snuffleupagus, isn’t it?

    Which makes his superfans cheer, and the rest of us shake our heads in disgust, that we have the equivalent of a Maxine Waters on “our side.”

    Bingo.

    Trump is like Maxine Waters, Harry Reid and Barbara Boxer, all rolled into one.

    Except he’s our problem, not the Democrats’.

    Dave (445e97)

  25. “Ricks was commenting on “What Democratic rage would look like,” a Bloomberg opinion column that quotes political scientist Thomas Schaller as saying, “I think we’re at the beginning of a soft civil war. … I don’t know if the country gets out of it whole.”

    That sounds pretty serious. The column by Francis Wilkinson presents a catalog of things Democrats are mad about — from the existence of the electoral college [ed. note: hello Dustin!!!] to Trump’s “propaganda apparatus” — and predicts that if Democrats lose the midterm elections, there will be hell to pay. (And Republicans, you know, could make a similar list of their own complaints.)
    “I don’t know exactly what that would look like,” Wilkinson writes. “But liberals have a great deal of cultural, academic and economic heft, stretching from Hollywood to Harvard. Just this week, some Hollywood powerhouses flirted with leveraging their clout against the Trumpist Fox News. There are endless variations on such a power play. If Democrats opt to use their power more aggressively — breaking rules — Schaller’s soft civil war hardly seems unlikely.”

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/06/25/sanders-nielsen-incidents-suggest-new-us-civil-war-underway-column/729141002/

    Colonel Haiku (59ae41)

  26. 23, is that a rejoinder to Peter and the cock crowing?

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  27. Except he’s our problem, not the Democrats’.

    Dave (445e97) — 6/25/2018 @ 9:35 am

    Yeah, this would never happen if a different Republican were president. If you really believe this, is it because Trump is dishonest and immoral? Meaning, same policies backed up by morality buys you peace from the Left?

    I guess the dox’ing of Hoagie is over.

    random viking (6a54c2)

  28. Much as I agree that complaining “protesters face no consequences anymore” does have disturbing implications if read skeptically, it does occur to me to ask: a) is there any indication that this was actually taken seriously as a literal instruction by Trump staff and voters, either then or later, and b) should we seriously conclude from this that Trump actually believes in the censoring of free speech when used in criticism of himself, his policies and/or his supporters, or the violent repression of protest against him when it occurs?

    It’s also worth bearing in mind a couple of other points. One is that, while utterly upholding the right to protest and criticize in itself, there is no denying that a significant proportion of recent protests have caused disruption and damage far beyond what that right of speech entails, without being prosecuted or otherwise punished for that damage; it seems far likelier to me that this specifically was what Mr. Trump was complaining about. Second (though I myself doubt very much President Trump thought about it this deeply at the time) is that even in situations of civil disobedience, where one is deliberately flouting the law in order to bring injustice to public attention, the entire point of such disobedience is to willingly and publicly accept the consequences of that flouting; the whole point of martyrdom (whether symbolic or literal) is to be a public witness of what you will suffer in order to proclaim truth. Thus a protester who incurs no personal consequences for a truly disruptive protest is, in a sense, undermining his own cause, in that it becomes all too easy to impute venal or malicious motives to his actions rather than sincere concern for his nominal message. (This may be one reason the Democrats continue to target the prison and illegal-immigrant population; it’s far easier to take those who are suffering consequences first and then make public martyrs out of them retroactively than it is to convince people to become martyrs when they don’t have to.)

    And of course Waters, unlike Trump (in the quoted examples, at least), was calling for her supporters to actively initiate hostilities of this kind. Trump’s comments, by contrast, seem to be talking about how he would (possibly in only wistful half-seriousness) like his supporters to respond to such hostility. The end does not justify the means, but the question of whether one is initiating bad behaviour or reacting to it remains critical and relevant, I think.

    Stephen J. (308ea7)

  29. Bingo.

    Trump is like Maxine Waters, Harry Reid and Barbara Boxer, all rolled into one.

    Except he’s our problem, not the Democrats’.

    Dave (445e97) — 6/25/2018 @ 9:35 am

    Why is Maxine Waters still alive? Why does she feel safe to pronounce her sh*t?

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  30. There’s an easy answer to both my questions.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  31. It’s amazing that James T. Hodgkinson, a 66-year-old from Belleville, Illinois is missing from the list.

    You know, the guy who shot House Majority Whip Steve Scalise.

    Neo (d1c681)

  32. Regarding the invasion on our southern border:

    http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2018/06/196946.php

    Immediate deportation is the only reasonable option.

    NJRob (b00189)

  33. One answer, given health data, contradicts the other. People probably went light on her in her earlier days because of the greater likelihood of early natural death.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  34. Actually, the quoted Geraghty article mentions Hodgkinson (though not by name) in the paragraph immediately preceding the start of the quote.

    I surmise he was left out because his crime doesn’t really belong (as a matter of appropriateness if nothing else) on a list of “breach[es] of decorum and proper behavior”. Moreover it’s a consequence rather than an inciting cause.

    Stephen J. (308ea7)

  35. And one more followup: The Trump quotes that Geraghty cites come from February and March 2016, well before Trump was actually in power and well before the Left collapsed into its current hysteria. It’s a little disingenuous for Mr. Geraghty to describe Trump as having “thrown gasoline on a fire” when he doesn’t provide any examples of Trump doing so after the fire has started.

    Stephen J. (308ea7)

  36. Yeah, this would never happen if a different Republican were president.

    Correct. If a different Republican were president, we wouldn’t have someone as dumb as Maxine Waters or Barbara Boxer, and as dishonest as Harry Reid, standing in the way of the conservative agenda.

    See, it’s better if the *other* side is led by stupid, evil people and *our* side is led by smart, good people.

    Think about it for awhile; I know it’ll start to make sense to you eventually.

    Dave (445e97)

  37. See, it’s better if the *other* side is led by stupid, evil people and *our* side is led by smart, good people.

    Thus, your vote for McMulligan. I’ve thought about it. Makes sense, Dave.

    http://dailycaller.com/2018/04/17/evan-mcmullin-campaign-finance-law/

    http://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=5191365&itype=CMSID

    random viking (6a54c2)

  38. LOL, $670K was less than the round-off error on Trump’s multiple bankruptcies.

    I hope McMullin resolves the matter in accord with the law.

    If he doesn’t, I hope he (and/or whoever else is culpable) faces the appropriate consequences.

    Dave (445e97)

  39. Jesus was no Ghandi in robes. Let’s not forget when He sent the twelve out to preach, he told them to take weapons, and if they didn’t have a sword, sell their robe and buy one.

    Being a Christian doesn’t mean you have to be abused. The only way to stop a bully is to stand up to them, and return any violence done to you. Renouncing the right to self defence (violence)is no virtue.

    the Bas (ca2d1a)

  40. It is entirely wrongheaded and a gross overstatement to equate Trump or his supporters with the bitter racist hatemonger Maxine Waters.

    The two non-violent, isolated, and relatively minor examples offered to illustrate bad behavior on the part of Trump’s supporters are laughably weak tea compared to the exceptionally long and bloody list of violent assaults perpetrated against candidate, President elect, and POTUS Trump and against voters attending his campaign events.

    Paid and protected leftist Brownshirt thugs repeatedly and violently attacked voters attending Trump’s rallies, America saw it on live TV, and the nation knew that Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton were the behind attempts to subvert the election. While racist hate monger, Maxine Waters, cheered the thugs and blamed Trump’s supporters.

    There is no comparison, no equalivent, and no excuse. The abject hatred, the brutality, the bloodshed, the violence, the weaponizing of the FBI and the DOJ, the subverson of the FISA Court, the attempted subversion of the presidential election, the ongoing Mueller witch hunt, all of it, all the blame, all the responsibility belongs to those who masterminded it, paid for it, defended it, cheered it, and expected to profit from it.

    They all are guilty and deserve to be exposed 10 times over for their crimes, and to stand before the nation and be judged.

    ropelight (927fb3)

  41. CNN is apparently smarter than Maxine Waters:

    Let’s start here: There is nothing — and I mean nothing — that can be said of Trump and those who work for him that would be a bridge too far for many Democratic activists. They hate Donald Trump. They believe he is a racist. A xenophobe. Someone who is using the presidency to enrich himself. The worst President ever. And so on and so forth.

    They also believe — and this is the fundamental mistake inherent in what Waters urged on Saturday — that the behavior of Trump and those who work with him justifies anything and everything. Trump is a bully. Trump always takes the low road, they believe. Therefore, the only proper response is to give him some of his own medicine and give it to him worse than he got it.

    Waters is the most high-profile example of this belief, but she is far from the only one. My Twitter feed is filled on a daily basis with liberals insisting that there is nothing too awful to say about Trump, his daughters, his sons or his wife. Whether or not these attacks are fact-based appears to be of little consequence to this element of the Democratic base; they are literally blinded with hatred for Trump.

    There’s a moral and a political argument to make against that approach.
    The moral one is simple: Two wrongs don’t make a right. Or: An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind.

    The “well, he did it first” argument is one any parent is familiar with — and familiar with responding “Well, that doesn’t mean you should do it too.” No matter how noxious Trump’s behavior and policies may be to you, the idea that his nastiness somehow allows you to say and do anything you want in response is a self-defeating proposition.

    The bolded part sounds…eerily familiar.

    Now where have I heard that argument before?

    Dave (445e97)

  42. McMuffin was the answer to the question no sane person had ever asked.

    Colonel Haiku (59ae41)

  43. So ConDave’s choice makes sense… at least in that sense.

    Colonel Haiku (59ae41)

  44. Maxine Waters is not self-righteous. She wants her voters, and most people inclined to suppoort Democrats to be self-righteous.

    That way nobody will dare to campaign for any Reublicans, and turnout can be higher as well.

    She doesn’t need it for her gerrymandered district * actually. It’s more for the good of the Democratic Party, and people she’s allied with. More people she’s allied with or friendly to than the party as a whole.

    * There is a Citizens Redistricting Commission in California, but they probably felt bound by the old (maybe it wouldn’t be upheld now since I think this is not actually poart of the language of the Voting Rights Act) interpretation of the Voting Rights Act, which is that the number of “black” and oitehr “minority” districts need to be protected. So even if people vote with their feet, they’re still safe. Unless maybe they get gentrified.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  45. Like CNN, Dave thinks the Left needs a justification to behave like thugs. Barring that, they are totally cool with Republicans.

    random viking (6a54c2)

  46. Jesus was no Ghandi in robes. Let’s not forget when He sent the twelve out to preach, he told them to take weapons, and if they didn’t have a sword, sell their robe and buy one.

    Being a Christian doesn’t mean you have to be abused. The only way to stop a bully is to stand up to them, and return any violence done to you. Renouncing the right to self defence (violence)is no virtue.
    the Bas (ca2d1a) — 6/25/2018 @ 10:50 am

    Such insanity. Only a crazty person could interpret the Bible this way. I don’t even insult the Quran this way. When Jesus sent his disciples to make disciples of all men he told them to eat what they were offered, to drink what they were given, and if they were rejected to shake the dust off their feet and walk away.

    Luke:

    [1] When Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases, [2] and he sent them out to preach the kingdom of God and to heal the sick. [3] He told them: “Take nothing for the journey — no staff, no bag, no bread, no money, no extra tunic. [4] Whatever house you enter, stay there until you leave that town. [5] If people do not welcome you, shake the dust off your feet when you leave their town, as a testimony against them.” [6] So they set out and went from village to village, preaching the gospel and healing people everywhere.

    Do you actuatlly think nobody reads the Bible?

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  47. I missed the “bring weapons” part.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  48. Yes that Aristotle is Belgian thinking. Steve, Jesus was not
    mild in speech, like his rebuke in Luke 11, he didn’t subscribe to dale Carnegie thinking,

    narciso (d1f714)

  49. She has yet to be “Espailat”-ted, though to be fair, out in the SGV and eventually in parts of OC, there have been some Brown-To-Yellow transitions.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  50. @ random viking, #22:

    And, if you think only Trump supporters will be the target, you will see that naive theory tested and go down in a ball of flames.

    Well, yes. Obviously Trump supporters will be using those apps too.

    That was your point, right?

    @ the Bas, #39:

    The only way to stop a bully is to stand up to them, and return any violence done to you.

    You must be using a different translation of the Bible. Does your version of Matthew 5:39 talk about turning the other cheek, like mine does? Or does it say something more like, “If someone slaps you, you should punch them repeatedly in the face until they agree not to do it again”?

    Demosthenes (7fae81)

  51. And when they run the knife through your ribcage, like occupy democrats recommends be done to ice agents, what size tourniquet do you suggest.

    narciso (d1f714)

  52. Thank you, BuDuh, for confirming that the Bas is at the very least mistaken. Because, if you read the Bible, you will discover that Luke chapter 22 takes place before the crucifixion. Jesus is not sending His disciples out to preach in that verse. He is telling them that He is about to be arrested, in fulfillment of prophecy. In context, therefore, He seems to be telling them that they need to be ready for anything.

    By the way, just two verses later, Jesus appears to be quite content that His 12 disciples have two swords between them.

    Demosthenes (7fae81)

  53. Because Jesus had to carry out the sign prophesied in isiah, which he points out from jonah

    narciso (d1f714)

  54. Well, yes. Obviously Trump supporters will be using those apps too.

    Which scenario do you think is more likely?

    1. A Trump supporter coming to the defense of NeverTrumper attacked by the Left, and blaming the Left.

    2. A NeverTrumper coming to the defense of a Trump supporter attacked by the Left, and blaming the Left.

    random viking (98d43c)

  55. BuDuh, In the original Greek the word covers “Knife.” An all purpose utensil which could, yes, be used as a weapon. But you’d be hard put to say that Jesus was commanding themselves to arm up.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  56. You do realize that in the ancient world there was no such thing as a fork or spoon?

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  57. Turning the other cheek does not mean that a Christian would not defend himself against violent assailants. Jesus was not saying that we should never defend ourselves but, rather, that we should never strike offensively, that we should not allow ourselves to be provoked to take revenge. While it is wise to retreat whenever possible in order to avoid a fight, it is proper to take steps to protect ourselves

    My sentiments. I think it mistaken one must be a pacifist to be a Christian.

    the Bas (ca2d1a)

  58. OK, maybe spoon. Whether or not it was actua lly at the the table I am not clear. Somebody will have to do the research. But fork? No way. Knife? Yes!

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  59. @ random viking, #57:

    The scenario I think is most likely? That’s easy:

    3. A Trump supporter ignoring my point in order to set up a false dilemma.

    Demosthenes (7fae81)

  60. And yes, that is a watchtower site, and I’m not a JW, I’m just agreeing with that viewpoint of the context in the passage.

    the Bas (ca2d1a)

  61. Or:

    4. A NeverTrumper evading a simple question by pretending he had a point that was ignored.

    What was your point, exactly?

    random viking (98d43c)

  62. My sentiments. I think it mistaken one must be a pacifist to be a Christian.

    Fair enough. And on reflection, I find I agree with that. I may have read you too broadly, and believed you were talking about responses to any action, not merely responses to violence. If I misinterpreted you, as seems likely, please accept my apologies.

    Demosthenes (7fae81)

  63. BuDeh, you tell me where in the Bible Jesus tells Centurions to stop soldering?

    Matthew:

    7“I will go and heal him,” Jesus replied. 8The centurion answered, “Lord, I am not worthy to have You come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell one to go, and he goes; and another to come, and he comes. I tell my servant to do something, and he does it.”…

    I think we may have misunderstood each other and could have to start over.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  64. Interesting the latest film about Paul, has him telling his tale to a centurion, Mauritius played by Oliver martinet.

    narciso (d1f714)

  65. “…Mauritius played by Oliver martinet.“

    Talk about your wooden performances! Teh guy’s a stiff!

    Colonel Haiku (59ae41)

  66. Speaking of spaillat, he approves of Maxine’s madam defarge routine.

    narciso (d1f714)

  67. Now a branch of his family, ‘judged’ trujillo in 1961
    https://mobile.twitter.com/MattWolking/status/1011301667374092289?p=v

    narciso (d1f714)

  68. 3. A Trump supporter ignoring my point in order to set up a false dilemma.

    Demosthenes (7fae81) — 6/25/2018 @ 12:30 pm

    Just a few examples:

    When Barbara Bush was attacked by the Fresno State professor, everyone, including Trump supporters, came to her defense. Likewise when George Will was dropped by newspapers due to his college rape column.

    But, when Trump officials get kicked out of restaurants it’s all but justified by the likes of Navarro and Rubin.

    Except for actual factual occurrences, it is indeed a “false dilemma.”

    random viking (98d43c)

  69. Intersting, narciso.

    https://www.shop.aviationmilitary.com/images/%23318%20Aztec%20Eagles%20II%20master%20web.jpg

    I don’t wear t-shirts on a daily basis.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  70. “There is a special kind of irony in criticizing Scalise, the victim of a political assassination attempt, for speaking out about political discourse.”

    http://thefederalist.com/2018/06/25/steve-scalises-call-for-civility-and-respect-draws-unbelievable-response/

    Colonel Haiku (59ae41)

  71. My point was that I think you’re right. It will not only be Trump supporters targeted by technologically-enabled political persecution. But I think that because I think Trump supporters will also be doing the targeting. And you’ll be justifying it with the same homeopathic logic that infects our national discourse — that like cures like; that they do it to us, and so someone has to do it to them.

    I mean, I thought that was already clear in context. But there you go.

    As for a response to your question…I’ve seen Trump supporters sell out NeverTrumpers, and I’ve seen Trump supporters take a hit defending NeverTrumpers from baseless accusations. I have also seen NeverTrumpers engages in both sorts of behavior. Which behavior is more prominent in which group, I’m not sure I have enough evidence to say. And I admittedly have a built-in bias, seeing as how I find the behavior and rhetoric of Trump supporters more offensive, in the aggregate, than I do that of NeverTrumpers. Maybe that means I’m too close to the situation to judge it accurately. So there you go…my long winded way of saying I’m not sure I can answer your question.

    I will say this, though. Just as it relates to me, and the posters I read on this board which I lurk so frequently. When I imagine who is more likely to defend ME from a baseless attack by the left…assuming they ever cared enough to mount one…I would put my trust in Patterico and his ilk far sooner than you and yours. The best I’d get from you guys, I think, is a couple of puerile scatological insults from happyfeet, the usual Dadaism from narciso, and a hackneyed poem from the Colonel calling me a woman (again).

    That, by the way, is my lengthy way of saying that if the two options you gave me are the only ones I’m allowed to choose from…well, I’m not sure either is likely, but in my judgment 1 is less likely. Make of that what you will.

    Demosthenes (7fae81)

  72. My biggest fear in this is the everyday folks on their way to a Trump rally. For some reason the far left has decided its OK to attack them physically and that is what will end in escalation of force.
    There is no verse in the Bible that requires anyone to take a beatdown from a mob in front of their wife and kids.

    (My opinion slices both ways, of course anti Trump protestors should not be forced to defend themselves from far right violence either)

    steveg (a9dcab)

  73. And you’ll be justifying it with the same homeopathic logic that infects our national discourse — that like cures like; that they do it to us, and so someone has to do it to them.

    Demosthenes, as for myself all I can say is that you’re dead wrong.

    And, you answered my question regarding the “false dilemma”, though your answer is divorced from reality and historical events.

    random viking (1b6727)

  74. First they came for the homophobes, but I was not a homophobe…

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  75. I appreciate the fact that she can call back.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  76. “RASSA-FRASSIN YOSEMITE SAM DISAGREES! AND IF IT WASN’T FER THE WOMENFOLK WE WOULDN’T BE IN ALL THIS HERE TRUBBLE!”

    I’ll admit that some women do good work, and this woman is doing a VERY good job of securing Republican control of Congress through 2020.

    “But it’s not right, and we know in our hearts it’s not right. If we admire Dr. King, who renounced violence despite its raining on his head; if we are followers of Christ who try to be like him; we can’t behave this way.”

    “I am renouncing violence to save others and attain my goals” is fine, “I am renouncing violence because I’m a physical coward and don’t have the authorities on my side in any case” is not so fine.

    This is an inane response anyway, far better than you link people to David Hines:
    David Hines, who’s studied the stratergizing in a little more useful detail:

    “@hradzka
    23h23 hours ago
    More
    Something to bear in mind: the goal of low-level violence is to provoke your enemy to high-level violence, so you can blame them for it.”

    “David Hines

    @hradzka
    23h23 hours ago
    More
    Leftist radicals are trying to set a trap. Don’t fall for it. Research their donors. Pull apart their finances.”

    “David Hines

    @hradzka
    23h23 hours ago
    More
    I’m a gun nut. Schlichter’s “buy another gun” mantra is crap.

    Make another friend.”

    Dysphoria Sam (312848)

  77. Demosthenes, as for myself all I can say is that you’re dead wrong.

    You may find this surprising. And I guess I couldn’t really blame you if you did. But I believe you.

    I should have made it clear, by the way, that I meant “you” in the aggregate, not “you” the individual.

    Demosthenes (b73895)

  78. Its now gone beyond rep. waters harassment. democratic bloggers are now saying end liberal anti second amendment stance and start arming themselves agains trump nazis! Rep. pelosi is being denounced on democratic underground as a corporate establishment stooge for not supporting rep. waters. the liberal establishment is being discredited by the left.

    wendell (52b606)

  79. 70, so that 3ni attack is par for course. The irony is that demographically, Waters is about where Charlie Rangel was a few years back, and its not like she’s named Juanita.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  80. Seriously, Sammy? That’s What you thnk of me?

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  81. If Ms. Waters is an idiot for promoting bullying tactics against people she disagrees with, then so is Trump for his “be careful what you wish for” response. There’re always going to be uncivil words between opposing parties, but shouting people down in a restaurant by SJWs cultural Marxists* crosses a line.
    * Described by Mr. Sullivan here.

    Paul Montagu (0b5bee)

  82. I pointed out maxines history of extolling mob violence before and after the riots, the way she glommee on to that blood libel against the govt, so why are we surprised.

    Apparently young Mr espaillat who happens to have been an illegal immigrant concurs on her point, there were dead canaries on the road to Alexandria, did we forget that so soon
    ?

    Narciso (54840c)

  83. If a child dies in custody they will wave the bloody diaper. bernie sanders revolution will be a real one not the phony one he wanted!

    wendell (52b606)

  84. Liberal leadership has been discredited the democrats will no longer be controlled by corporate stooges. last night on news a gun shop owner said a liberal came in to buy a gun to protect herself from “NAZIS!”

    wendell (52b606)

  85. 76 Steveg, another near term worry in the Bay Area is if an upper size white woman puts her phone to her face in the vicinity of black people doing stuff, that white woman might get set upon by a mob.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/white-woman-dubbed-permit-patty-calling-police-black-girl-denies-n886226

    http://heavy.com/news/2018/05/jennifer-schulte-bbq-becky/

    urbanleftbehind (cdf37a)

  86. 75… wow. just wow.

    Colonel Haiku (59ae41)

  87. https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2018/06/25/what-happened-since-i-was-last-here-left-sparks-civil-war/

    I can’t prove anything here. I mean aside from the Democrats encouraging it and all that, for previously stated reasons — the drug cartels are the big pushers — no pun intended — for this.

    The drug cartels need mules and coyotes and pack rats to get their product into the country

    No, no, That’s not hwo it works.

    They get the Border Patrol busy arresting people and they can’t watch the border.,

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  88. Have to give Maxine due credit for an impressive media coup here, though.

    It looks like there were barely 20 people at the “rally” where made this idiotic statement, and she has owned the news cycle for the entire day, with the whole political and media elite talking about her.

    She truly is playing Trump’s own game.

    And this is why we need to extirpate her AND Trump. Completely.

    Dave (445e97)

  89. *she made

    Dave (445e97)

  90. Pat, I am problematic.

    me encontre unas fotos del escuadron 201 en el otro foro que visito y me gustaria compartirlas con ustedes, busque aqui en el foro mas informacion o fotos de este tema y no encontre mucho, si ya estan por aqui les pido a los moderadores borren el tema, aparte no sabia donde ponerlas en el subforo de fotografia en el subforo de aviacion militar.

    tenia una breve descripcion la comparto con ustedes, no se mucho al respecto si alguien mas sabe algo sobre el tema y quiere opinar.

    El Escuadrón 201 realizó 59 misiones, lanzó 252 bombas de propósito general de 1000 libras y se dispararon 138,652 cartuchos de ametralladora calibre 0.50.Participo en las batallas de Luzon en Filipinas y en Formosa.
    Las aguilas aztecas volaban en P47 thunderbolt. Vieron accion desde junio de 1945 hasta agosto del mismo año, su principal trabajo era apoyar a las fuerzas terrestre, atacando nidos de ametralladoras.

    las fotos…

    I’ve got las fotos. And I have the T-shirt.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  91. I don’t even speak Spanish. But when it’s from the heart, particularly from a woman, I get it.

    Do have to speak Spanish before becoming a fan?

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  92. And this is why we need to extirpate her AND Trump. Completely.

    62+ million people that voted for Trump, and are happy with him, disagree.

    Maybe you should just go ahead and jump on the Maxine train.

    the Bas (ca2d1a)

  93. Let me try to make it out in my problematic Spanish. Escuadrón 201, the Mexican expeditionary squadron completed 59 missions over the Japanese held islands of Luzon in the Philippines and Taiwan. Expending 252 bombs and over 138k .50 cal. rounds while flying Thunderbolts.

    Am I missing something important?

    You see, right now, I have huge difficulties with Mexico and I need to remind myself.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  94. 58th Fighter Group, 5th Air Force.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  95. Yes you’re right on it.

    narciso (d1f714)

  96. If it’s that damn bad Steve57, let’s pull a Russian and manipulate the results on July 1. All 3 are bad, AMLO is that much worse.

    urbanleftbehind (cdf37a)

  97. After what’s been inculcated in our schools for years, does anyone doubt that Mao’s Cultural Revolution could happen here and might be happening now?

    NJRob (8265a6)

  98. Stephanie Wilkinson, the owner of the Red Hen, told The Washington Post that she’d do it all over again:

    Wilkinson told the Washington Post that some of her LGBT employees were apparently triggered by the presence of a Trump administration official and suffered massive microaggressions.

    The Post reported that staffers “knew Sanders had defended Trump’s desire to bar transgender people from the military.”

    Wilkinson said she gave staff members the final decision on whether or not to kick out the Sanders family.

    “They said, yes,” she told the newspaper.

    Wilkinson had been summoned to the restaurant by frightened staff members unsure of how to handle the situation.

    When she arrived she asked Sanders to step outside “for a word.”

    “I explained that the restaurant has certain standards that I feel it has to uphold, such as honesty and compassion and cooperation,” she told the newspaper. “I said, ‘I’d like to ask you to leave.’”

    Ms. Sanders handled the ill-tempered bigot with genteel grace. She offered to pay for the table’s appetizer and then quietly left the restaurant.

    In fairness to Ms. Sanders, there were no signs on the restaurant door forbidding service to Republicans, Conservatives or Christians.

    About a month, perhaps six weeks ago, my wife and I stopped for a late lunch at the Applebee’s restaurant on Eastern Bypass Road in Richmond, Kentucky. One of the waiters was an obvious ‘transgender,’ a male pretending to be a woman; this person was not the waiter assigned to our table. Despite the fact that the ‘transgendered’ are obviously mentally ill, and that I disapprove of the entire notion, we did not just up and leave the restaurant. We ordered our meals and enjoyed them, simply ignoring the waiter in question.

    Were I to have followed the methods of the left, we’d have taken our business elsewhere.

    Oh, well, he was out of a job soon enough: Applebee’s closed down dozens of restaurants, and the one at which we ate appears to be one of them.

    The Dana in Kentucky (9d97ce)

  99. Trump supporter berates landscapers because they’re ‘Mexican,’ calls them ‘rapists and animals’

    The incident started when the Trumpette started yelling at the guy’s mother to “Go back to Mexico”.

    When he intercedes on behalf of his mother, the cultist proceeds to loyally parrot Trump’s talking points.

    “Why do you hate us?”
    “Because you’re Mexicans.”
    “We are honest people right here!”
    “Haha…yeah…rapists and animals. Drug dealers, rapists and animals.”

    The 27 year-old son was born in California and is a graduate of Cal Poly Pomona. It doesn’t indicate his mother’s citizenship/immigration status.

    Like anything else that appears out of nowhere on the internet, I can’t vouch for the authenticity of this video. But if it’s genuine, it’s appalling, and everyone who cheers on Trump and his bigoted rhetoric should be shamed by it.

    Dave (445e97)

  100. The Washington Post opined:

    We nonetheless would argue that Ms. Huckabee, and Ms. Nielsen and Mr. Miller, too, should be allowed to eat dinner in peace. Those who are insisting that we are in a special moment justifying incivility should think for a moment how many Americans might find their own special moment. How hard is it to imagine, for example, people who strongly believe that abortion is murder deciding that judges or other officials who protect abortion rights should not be able to live peaceably with their families?

    Of course, at the editorial’s web page, also linked is the Post’s purported-to-be conservative columnist Jennifer Rubin’s OpEd column Sarah Huckabee Sanders and the lost art of shunning, in which she concluded:

    Nevertheless, it is not altogether a bad thing to show those who think they’re exempt from personal responsibility that their actions bring scorn, exclusion and rejection. If you don’t want to provoke wrath, don’t continue to work for someone whose cruel and inhumane treatment of others rivals the internment of U.S. citizens and noncitizens of Japanese descent during World War II.

    When I think of the Editorial Board’s musing about “people who strongly believe that abortion is murder” perhaps targeting judges and other officials who support abortion, I have to wonder what Miss Rubin would think were I to advocate that all of those who work at abortion clinics, “doctors,” nurses, technicians and even receptionists, should be personally shunned in their private lives, and publish their personal information to assist in that shunning?

    The pro-life Dana (9d97ce)

  101. 105… In a nation of well over 300,000,000 people, who in their right mind would ever – even in their wildest, even fevered dreams – ever think there would not be more than a few demented people out there?

    Get real, ConDave. You have to be smarter than that.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  102. and everyone who cheers on Trump and his bigoted rhetoric should be shamed by it.

    Dave (445e97) — 6/25/2018 @ 4:55 pm

    Dave, please list everyone here “who cheers on Trump and his bigoted rhetoric“. We’ll wait.

    random viking (6a54c2)

  103. Dave wrote:

    Like anything else that appears out of nowhere on the internet, I can’t vouch for the authenticity of this video. But if it’s genuine, it’s appalling, and everyone who cheers on Trump and his bigoted rhetoric should be shamed by it.

    Like everything else taken to extremes, it’s based on at least some part of reality. The illegal immigrants do commit crimes at far greater rates than American citizens; if they didn’t, President Trump’s rhetoric would not have worked, and Hillary Clinton — Heaven forfend! — would be President today. :(

    The honest Dana (9d97ce)

  104. Anybody who cheers on “bigoted rhetoric” doesn’t need to wait for a dubious video to be shamed, I would think.

    random viking (6a54c2)

  105. Meanwhile…….

    NYTimes quoting Iran’s foreign ministry shot: “”Trump has this illusion that because he left the nuclear agreement, we are forced to change our behavior in Syria, Yemen, Iraq, Lebanon and Palestine. No way we are doing that. If we ever change our policies, it will have nothing to do with Trump or anyone in the White House or elsewhere.”

    Iranian chaser: “Iranian Protestors Take It to the Streets Chanting ‘Death to Palestine.“

    harkin (e5c973)

  106. It’s no different than refusing to serve blacks and Jews. But there’s a law against refusing to serve black and Jews. There is no law against refusing to serve Trump administration officials. Except the law of the free market which might cost them half their prospective customers. And that law just might work. Let’s see if this Red Hen manages to stay in business.

    nk (dbc370)

  107. ‘Bigoted rhetoric’ is what the Left calls pointing out that 25% of the federal prison population is illegals, the average illegal immigrant criminal is arrested SEVEN times and the cost of incarceration for just the illegals in federal prison is over $1.5 billion a year. They also deem ‘hate speech’ to be also pointing out that while these numbers for the roughly 55,000 illegals in federal prison are alarming, there are over 300,000 in state prisons…..so do the math.

    Source: GAO

    https://www.gao.gov/new.items/d11187.pdf

    harkin (e5c973)

  108. the hen’s red cause she’s so angry at sarah huckabee is why

    she flew at sarah like a blazing harpy peck peck peck

    sarah screamed and fell to the floor, covering her head in a vain attempt to shield herself from the cruel, merciless beak and the slashing talons

    finally the hen turned and slowly walked away, her bloodlust for the moment sated

    and sarah’s screams they abated and she sobbed softly, curled up in a shuddering ball on the dirty floor, now sticky with blood

    but she’s never really stopped screaming… inside

    and she probably never will

    so baleful was the otherworldly rage of that demon hen

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  109. BuDuh (3b5207) — 6/25/2018 @ 11:57 am

    By the way, just two verses later, Jesus appears to be quite content that His 12 disciples have two swords between them.
    Demosthenes (7fae81) — 6/25/2018 @ 12:11 pm

    You are quite mistaken. Jesus’ “It is enough!” was to rebuke them for their foolishness in taking him literally. These verses are almost as misunderstood as Luke 12:52 – 53. Jesus was only trying to tell them that things have changed so that future missions would be greatly resisted and that they should be prepared for adversity.

    This adversity would manifest quickly after the Crucifixion. Human weakness would cause many, who had been receptive of the Gospel, to now reject the Disciples efforts because of the “scandal of the cross!” Before the Crucifixion, people would welcome, feed, and house an evangelizer; but now these same people might refuse the Disciples this hospitality and even report turn on them. Indeed, many followers of Christ were hunted down and killed in the aftermath.

    felipe (023cc9)

  110. So Haiku, so if a patient under your daughters care (if I recall correctly, a nursing student) had great Mex-dar and started hurling bigoted invective at her and you were in earshot, you wouldn’t do jack and you wouldn’t be mad if your daughter didn’t take some sort of medicinal revenge?

    urbanleftbehind (cdf37a)

  111. “The hateful intolerance that liberals are practicing against fellow Americans who support our president is not only unacceptable and a violation of their constitutionally protected rights — it’s flat-out dangerous.

    Who can forget the charity baseball game practice last summer that was violently attacked by a gun-toting Bernie Sanders supporter who hated Republicans and nearly killed Louisiana U.S. Rep. Steve Scalise?

    Is this the outcome liberals want? If not, they should stop fanning the flames of hate with provocative, intrusive actions that they may consider to be justified forms of protest or “resistance,” but which depart radically from any norms of civil discourse and create a heightened danger of deadly political violence.

    When Barack Obama was in office, Republicans who didn’t support his left-wing agenda didn’t boot his press secretaries from their restaurants. Nor did they verbally abuse and accost members of his administration over political differences. To the contrary, conservatives strongly support free speech and all citizens’ right to vote for whomever they please.

    It’s high time liberals did the same and start practicing the tolerance they preach.

    Before another American gets hurt.”

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/2018/06/25/how_many_republican_owners_kicked_out_obama_aides_445795.html

    harkin (e5c973)

  112. My sentiments. I think it mistaken one must be a pacifist to be a Christian.
    the Bas (ca2d1a) — 6/25/2018 @ 12:26 pm

    You are quite correct. Defense of oneself or the innocent, even if lethal, is always a positive contribution to the virtue of justice.

    felipe (023cc9)

  113. In a nation of well over 300,000,000 people, who in their right mind would ever – even in their wildest, even fevered dreams – ever think there would not be more than a few demented people out there?

    Brilliant observation, Haiku!

    So how about we deal with nutcases and criminals as the individual deviants and sociopaths they are, rather than stereotyping whole ethnic groups as “animals”, “rapists” and “drug dealers”?

    Dave, please list everyone here “who cheers on Trump and his bigoted rhetoric“. We’ll wait.

    Good news rv – you made the list!

    The illegal immigrants do commit crimes at far greater rates than American citizens; if they didn’t, President Trump’s rhetoric would not have worked

    Except they don’t?

    And do I understand you correctly, illogical Dana? You claim that because bigoted rhetoric was politically effective, it makes the charges true?

    So the German Jews really did leaven their Passover matzoh with the blood of gentile children during the 1930’s?

    Dave (445e97)

  114. Trump riffing in SC… top form…

    What.
    A.
    Show.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  115. Dave, please list everyone here “who cheers on Trump and his bigoted rhetoric“. We’ll wait.

    Good news rv – you made the list!

    Liar. Now who should be ashamed? I’m convinced, after countless delusional comments from you, Dave, you’re incapable of shame.

    random viking (6a54c2)

  116. Dave, who demands honesty and morality from his politicians, is completely devoid of it himself.

    random viking (6a54c2)

  117. ConDave… you’ve over self-medicated. Call teh school nurse.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  118. 116… she’s a nurse now, ulb. What the heck is Mex-dar? The people she deals with are on their way out, don’t even know where they are half the time. I tell her blessings are in store for her in the future, as she is truly doing the Lord’s work.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  119. I think Dave’s in the process of dox’ing me, as was done with Hoagie. Search every comment, Dave!

    random viking (6a54c2)

  120. It’s no different than refusing to serve blacks and Jews.

    I think it is, at least to the extent Judaism (and religion more generally) has historically tended to be an inherited racial or regional characteristic of birth.

    I think a politically targeted (i.e. intended to express political opposition to particular government policies or officeholders or candidates) denial of service is, ipso facto, an act of protected political speech.

    OTOH, a racially/religiously/gender/orientation/etc targeted (i.e. intended to express disapproval or hostility to groups based on some characteristic of birth) denial of service is NOT an act of protected political speech, so the law may regulate it as long as it does so in an even-handed way).

    Dave (445e97)

  121. Mex-dar is a way of detecting Mexican blood particularly if they don’t have the stereotypical look or last name. A hail Mary term I pulled out my nethers to build the scenario.

    urbanleftbehind (cdf37a)

  122. Interestingly enough, Rev. Hoagie said he would have beat up this one white woman who berated a Korean student speaking Korean in a coffee shop in Berkeley, but he does have lefty-dar par excellence.

    urbanleftbehind (cdf37a)

  123. Dave, still on a high after hounding Hoagie from the blog, looking for more notches to carve into his keyboard.

    OK big guy, carve away, I’m joining Hoagie. Can’t even have a thread condemning Water’s dangerous rhetoric without moral equivalence around here. It’s just too Debbie downer.

    the Bas (ca2d1a)

  124. Liar. Now who should be ashamed? I’m convinced, after countless delusional comments from you, Dave, you’re incapable of shame.

    Hold on just a second. Are you challenging the accuracy of something I posted?

    OMG HELP I’M BEING DOXED.

    Dave (445e97)

  125. Dave, still on a high after hounding Hoagie from the blog

    You can say it a hundred or a thousand times. Still won’t be true.

    Dave (445e97)

  126. I mean the freaking TEA PARTY was demonized by the left ten years ago, and even had the IRS weaponized against it, but now we’re to believe the left’s bad behavior is on Trump.

    I just can’t hang with the deranged anymore.

    I know y’all be heartbroken. Not.

    the Bas (ca2d1a)

  127. Oh, I see. Gay-dar, Lefty-dar, Mex-dar. All riffs on radar. All right then.

    felipe (023cc9)

  128. Dave: Hold on just a second. Are you challenging the accuracy of something I posted?

    No, I’m calling you dishonest, immoral and a liar.

    random viking (6a54c2)

  129. by calling for necklacing, murder, destruction, kidnapping of children et cetera Maxine’s done a lot to undercut the arguments against Mr. Pruitt’s security detail i think

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  130. Remember the lefts motto “by any means necessary!” malcolm X. Dr. king told black people not to get their guns and start shooting racists after a klan bombing. was he right?Liberal establishment democrat leaders have been told by their corporate masters to keep blacks disarmed except for criminals who are useful in controlling black community. Now snowflakes are rethinking their opposition to 2nd amendment so they need guns to protect the children and fight nazis.

    wendell (e06ca9)

  131. I think Dave’s in the process of dox’ing me, as was done with Hoagie. Search every comment, Dave!

    No need.

    When you open your home, neighborhood and private schools to illegals, I’ll concede the “moral high ground.” Not until then.

    random viking (6a54c2) — 6/22/2018 @ 12:33 pm

    I caught you there faithfully repeating Trump’s fallacy of the excluded middle (the only alternatives are Trump’s policy or inviting MS-13 to crash on your sofa).

    Let’s make this fun and turn it into a little game.

    I’ll quote a comment of yours cheering on Trump or parroting his rhetoric (see above), and then you quote a comment of yours where you condemn his broadbrush stereotyping of Latinos, factual misstatements, or moronically incompetent policy implementation.

    Whoever can’t find a (new) quote when it’s their turn loses the game.

    Your turn!

    I think there’s enough material in that thread alone that I won’t need to search the comments of this blog dox you again for at least a week.

    Dave (445e97)

  132. Off Topic: Jim Jordan, founder of House Freedom Caucus, announced he’s running for Speaker.

    ropelight (f1bfde)

  133. Its not new, the suffragettes , really, the molly Maguire the social revolutionaries all engaged in direct action, but they didn’t do so. When they were in power, that is the wrinkle.

    narciso (d1f714)

  134. Nobody doxxed Hoagie. We just called him out on his braggadocio. But I can see how that might offend Trump supporters. Their Supreme Leader is nothing but braggadocio.

    nk (dbc370)

  135. I think Dana ward, got way more leeway then hoagie did, I warned people what a (redacted) he had been on another blog.

    narciso (d1f714)

  136. Dave, the dox’ing machine!!

    I take total ownership of that comment, and will gladly repeat it hundreds of times, as it has as much in common with bigotry as your logic has with truth. Apparently, you can explain how those who choose to cross the border illegally constitute a racial or ethnic group. Again, I’ll wait…. I’m confident you can do it.

    In the meantime, you remain dishonest, immoral and a liar.

    random viking (6a54c2)

  137. nk: But I can see how that might offend Trump supporters.

    It seemed to offend the host, or are you calling him a Trump supporter?

    random viking (6a54c2)

  138. So laufman was negotiating with assuage through deripasha, Warner knew about it, yet pretended outrage concerning any trump tie to the Russians or assuage, I regard them as separate entities

    narciso (d1f714)

  139. His blog, his rules. And he didn’t lie about it, like you, and call it doxxing. He said, in relevant part: I’d rather not see one of my commenters become the subject of a long research trail. I worry about the chilling effect that has on others, regardless of point of view.

    nk (dbc370)

  140. If it’s that damn bad Steve57, let’s pull a Russian and manipulate the results on July 1. All 3 are bad, AMLO is that much worse.
    urbanleftbehind (cdf37a) — 6/25/2018 @ 4:38 pm

    Who ever gave you the idaa that things are so bad I give up?

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  141. Dave, the dox’ing machine!!

    It’s not a dox, as defined:

    doxxing is the Internet-based practice of researching and broadcasting private or identifiable information (especially personally identifiable information) about an individual or organization

    As they say, words mean things. Dave didn’t track down RH’s personal history and reveal it, nor did he investigate his military records and publish them. RH volunteered his own history by his own volition and he was fact-checked, but to be charitable, maybe he got some things mixed up. By saying Dave was doxxing, you’re trafficking in a smear, random.

    Paul Montagu (0b5bee)

  142. Abandon all hope:
    http://mexidata.info/id4531.html

    narciso (d1f714)

  143. His blog, his rules. And he didn’t lie about it, like you, and call it doxxing.

    Ah, ok. We should use “making someone the subject of a long research trail” instead of “doxxing”. Got it. Best to make it sound innocuous.

    random viking (6a54c2)

  144. 127… oh… lol, I get it. My wife and I have often been told what beautiful children – now young adults – we have. They are fortunate they’ve got their mother’s good looks. And they are all decent, caring, productive people. Which makes us blessed. And I am so very, very thankful.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  145. By saying Dave was doxxing, you’re trafficking in a smear, random.

    Paul Montagu (0b5bee) — 6/25/2018 @ 7:19 pm

    Dave’s relentless and futile attempt to track down a comment of mine to back up his smear that I cheer “bigoted rhetoric” seems to not cross any threshold with Paul.

    random viking (6a54c2)

  146. Things are never so bad while I live. An obituary.

    Washington Post
    February 27, 1999
    Pg. C1

    The Sniper With A Steadfast Aim

    By Stephen Hunter, Washington Post Staff Writer

    The academics write their mighty histories. The politicians dictate their memoirs. The retired generals give their speeches. The intellectuals record their ironic epiphanies. And in all this hubbub attending wars either lost or won, the key man is forgotten — the lonely figure crouched in the bushes, wishing he were somewhere else: the man with the rifle.

    Such a man has just died, and his passing will be marked elsewhere only in small, specialized journals with names like Leatherneck and Tactical Shooter and in the Jesuitical culture of the Marine Corps, where he is still fiercely admired.

    And in some quarters, even that small amount of respect will be observed with skepticism. After all, he was merely a grunt. He was a sergeant who made people do push-ups. He fought in a bad war. He was beyond irony, perspective or introspection. He made no policies, he commanded no battalions, he invented no colorful code names for operations. But worst of all, he was a sniper.

    Gunnery Sgt. (Ret.) Carlos N. Hathcock II, USMC, died Monday at 57 in Virginia Beach, after a long decline in the grip of the only enemy he wasn’t able to kill: multiple sclerosis. In the end, he didn’t recognize his own friends. So it was a kind of mercy, one supposes. But he had quite a life. In two tours in the 1960s, he wandered through the big bad bush in the Republic of South Vietnam, and with a rifle made by Winchester, a heart made by God and a discipline made by the Marine Corps, he stalked and killed 93 of his country’s enemies. And that was only the official count.

    It’s not merely that Vietnam was a war largely without heroes. It’s also that the very nature of Hathcock’s heroism was a problem for so many. He killed, nakedly and without warning. There is something in the mercilessness of the sniper that makes the heart recoil. He attracts vultures, not only to his carcasses but also to his psyche. Is he sick? Is he psycho? The line troops call him “Murder Inc.” behind his back. They puzzle over what he does. When they kill, it’s in hot blood, in a haze of smoke and adrenaline. And much of the other death they see is inflicted by industrial applications, such as air power or artillery, which almost seem beyond human agency.

    But the sniper is different. He isn’t at the point of the spear, he is the point of the spear. He reduces warfare to its purest element, the destruction of another human being. …

    I miss White Feather.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  147. …But he had quite a life. In two tours in the 1960s, he wandered through the big bad bush in the Republic of South Vietnam, and with a rifle made by Winchester, a heart made by God and a discipline made by the Marine Corps, he stalked and killed 93 of his country’s enemies. And that was only the official count…

    I can tell you, having met the man, he could have lived out a happy life not killing anyone.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  148. 153… all this stuff is nonsense and needs to be toned down.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  149. I thought hunter had more insight then that, even in his pre bob swagger tales, like the Spanish gambit he understood the ambiguity of the secret world, snipers clear a path, througjt the enemy camp.

    narciso (d1f714)

  150. Reading comprehension exercise, for random viking:

    Our host wrote, very early this morning, on another post, with regard to the discussion of commenter Hoagie’s claims about his war record:

    I’m not comfortable with this dissection of a commenter’s claims and I’m asking that it stop. I think it’s too far gone to delete all the comments — I wish I had seen this early on — but please stop it now.

    Patterico (115b1f) — 6/25/2018 @ 7:41 am

    Not long after, he took the unusual step of closing all comments on that post.

    So the reading comprehension question is very simple, a yes/no question: Based on what he wrote, as quoted just above, did our host limit his request to the cessation of comments on that topic solely on that post, which he subsequently closed?

    I have composed the test. I assure you I am not the grader for it. But I suggest to you that there is one.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  151. It detracts from the point of the thread, the endorsement of terrorism from a sadly not insignificant figure.

    narciso (d1f714)

  152. I suppose some people idolize them. Snipers. Stephen Hunter, the WaPo film critic you cite, has written a dozen novels about them. But most people consider backshooting, bushwacking, and generally killing by stealth, to be a cowardly kind of thing. Soldiers too. In WWII, snipers on both sides were seldom taken prisoner. They were shot summarily.

    nk (dbc370)

  153. It was painful to meet him when he was in the end stages of his disease. But he was still capable of teaching me that Ma Deuce fires slow enough you can squeeze off one accurate round.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  154. 161… stay classy, Democrats.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  155. The second saladin, introduced me to the betrayal of the Kurds in 1975, just the first of many, by a thinly veiled Henry kissinger, the title refers to a peshmerga commander who doesn’t decide to live and let live. Then there was the day after midnight, where the villain is a character who has surfaced in previous and
    D future tomes

    narciso (d1f714)

  156. I think as a fundraising event, the Democratic National Committee should have an Insult Cage Match between Maxine Waters and Sheila Jackson Lee, in which they’d take turns seeking applause from a leftie audience based on their insults directed toward non-True-Believers in general and Trump supporters in particular. Rachel Maddow can referee.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  157. I imagine so, one wish there would be a world where his skills along with the late Chris Kyle and nick Irving were not needed, but sadly its more necessary than ever

    narciso (d1f714)

  158. What there were no sharpshooters in the elas/eam i find that hard to believe.

    narciso (d1f714)

  159. That being said, its a dangerous instrument to employ, a hard psychological as well as physical existence.

    narciso (d1f714)

  160. snipers save a lot of lives plus they save a lot of lives

    they’ll probably be replaced by robots soon

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  161. Hang it over the bar, Pat. Didn’t I say I am capable of anything ISIS can do? I am not proud.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  162. Feets sez more than he knows.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  163. I don’t think of it that way, Islamic state, like the fmr Iraqi security forces that comprise their leadership were about terrorizing the civilian population, like the stasi or the kempei Tao before them.

    narciso (d1f714)

  164. I join with the folks who have grown uncomfortable.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  165. I have composed the test. I assure you I am not the grader for it. But I suggest to you that there is one.

    Beldar (fa637a) — 6/25/2018 @ 7:39 pm

    Then Beldar, man up and call out blatant smears. It would do wonders for the discourse on this site. Or, if it is someone you habitually spar with, do you think they deserve the smear whether warranted or not? It’s an honest question.

    random viking (6a54c2)

  166. Definitely, its not something to willingly embrace, I xouldnt do in a million years, but I’m not going to condemn one who feels the need to. The Enemy has no such scruples, whether Marxism or salafism or its shia equivalent, they believe in to death.

    narciso (d1f714)

  167. They’re giving medals to CIA drone operators now. Oh, well.

    nk (dbc370)

  168. Tell us, how you solve this conundrum, we’ve seen with an incursion into enemy territory Beirut mogadishu kandahar fallujah can be a tricky thing?

    narciso (d1f714)

  169. Had someone dragged Fidel or ho chi Minh or pol pot the word would be a better place.

    narciso (d1f714)

  170. kempei Tao

    Kampei Tai. Kampei Tao.

    Not remotely the same thing. I don’t even know if Kampei tao is a thing.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  171. As DCSCA mentioned, Trump was in midseason form tonight. After assuring the devoted that putting kids into desert internment camps would be a political winner, and that his internment camps were (of course) much nicer than Obama’s, he triumphantly concluded:

    “The Democrats want open borders. They want anybody they want, including MS-13, pouring into the country. And the Democrats don’t like ICE — these are great, brave, tough people. … They don’t like Border Patrol, they don’t like your police, they don’t like anybody.”

    The Democrats don’t like anybody! (Except MS-13, if you were paying attention to the previous sentence)

    Dave (59a371)

  172. The Kampei Tai were the Japanese secret police.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  173. Blame it on autocorrect, but you know what I mean people who think there should have been no debaathification, considering what that gang has wrought over 35 years.

    narciso (d1f714)

  174. They are willing to tolerate the latter, for the furtherance of the former, which suggests they can’t judge between suspect elements in populations, merkel has the same problem.

    narciso (d1f714)

  175. Dave’s relentless and futile attempt to track down a comment of mine to back up his smear that I cheer “bigoted rhetoric” seems to not cross any threshold with Paul.

    That wasn’t your challenge random, it was this.

    Dave, please list everyone here “who cheers on Trump and his bigoted rhetoric“.

    So, putting the goalposts back to where they were originally, you can start with this thread, starting at happyfeet, but I’m sure Dave can answer for himself. Oh, and words to mean things, do they not?

    Paul Montagu (0b5bee)

  176. Iron or lead medals, nk?
    Perhaps a used tire?

    mg (9e54f8)

  177. There is no antiseptic tool of war, it would be an oxymoron, it scars the one who does the deed as surely as the family of the target.

    Narciso (58bdca)

  178. Speaking of snipers, Steve57…

    felipe (023cc9)

  179. random viking can you point us to a single comment in all your countless posts defending Trump, where you condemned his toxic, bigoted indiscriminate slurs about Mexicans/Latinos being animals, rapists, murderers and drug dealers? Because there’s a general principle that silence implies consent. If you never do anything but defend Trump against every criticism, how is it dishonest to infer that you also agree with his public utterances here?

    If that’s not the case, then make that clear by pointing to an instance where you said so. Or say it here, now.

    If you do, I will happily apologize for misinterpreting your past silence on the matter.

    Dave (59a371)

  180. president trump’s made many cogent criticisms of the illegal immigrant menace

    this is one reason he’s so beloved by the American people (real ones)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  181. Oh, and words to mean things, do they not?

    Paul Montagu (0b5bee) — 6/25/2018 @ 8:24 pm

    Yes, Paul, like where the only commenter Dave listed was me. But, that’s not a smear in your book, am I right?

    random viking (6a54c2)

  182. That’s impressive, that was probably the most efficient use of firepower certainly in the western front.

    Narciso (58bdca)

  183. narcso, I’m kidding.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  184. Dave: If that’s not the case, then make that clear by pointing to an instance where you said so. Or say it here, now.

    Your white flag is acknowledged, Dave. You spent all this time culling my comments and came up empty handled. LOL.

    None other than the host himself put me in moderation for exactly the logic you’ve now switched to, to which I’m on record as acknowledging.

    I manned up, Dave. Will you?

    random viking (6a54c2)

  185. *empty handed, of course

    random viking (6a54c2)

  186. Beldar, why did you exclude this from you reading comprehension yes/no test?

    I’m not saying that what has been revealed here is inaccurate or that it doesn’t give me pause — but like DRJ, I am willing to chalk up some of the statements that have been questioned to time or illness. I appreciate Hoagie’s service, and I’d rather not see one of my commenters become the subject of a long research trail. I worry about the chilling effect that has on others, regardless of point of view. Hence my request.

    Patterico (115b1f) — 6/25/2018 @ 7:52 am

    It seems to be a significant quote that is right smack in the middle of the quotes you chose.

    BuDuh (88ab9c)

  187. I gathered as much, Dave is,boring like a ball of string rolled by a kitten, so it doesn’t surprise me that the madame defarge of Compton behaves this way, the converse would be true.

    Narciso (58bdca)

  188. I kid. I kid. I swear I’m kidding.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  189. One would think black lives matters would shut her up……

    mg (9e54f8)

  190. “The Democrats don’t like anybody! (Except MS-13, if you were paying attention to the previous sentence)

    Apparently you weren’t paying attention. “Including” does not equal “except”.

    harkin (e5c973)

  191. Yes, Paul, like where the only commenter Dave listed was me. But, that’s not a smear in your book, am I right?

    Oh c’mon. Now you’re just being silly. You were the only one who replied! So I replied back to you.

    Of course you are not the only one who supports Trump, or who should be ashamed at what he is doing to subject your fellow citizens to discrimination and abuse.

    Dave (445e97)

  192. Speaking of discrimination and abuse, watch out Asians applying to liberal Harvard:

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/2018/06/25/harvard_is_wrong_that_asians_have_terrible_personalities_445776.html

    Harkin (e5c973)

  193. PIERS MORGAN: Dear liberals, you won’t beat Trump by banning his staff from restaurants, threatening his son with pedophiles, abusing his wife or harassing his Cabinet off the streets – you’ll just get him re-elected.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5883485/PIERS-MORGAN-Dear-liberals-youll-just-Trump-elected-banning-staff-restaurants.html?ICO=most_read_module&mrn_rm=rta

    harkin (e5c973)

  194. So the Texas redistricting decision,” any questions, answers any one care for a mint”

    Was it just a sharper author that made the difference?

    Narciso (58bdca)

  195. Oh c’mon. Now you’re just being silly. You were the only one who replied! So I replied back to you.

    And, you tried so very hard to prove it — and failed. Had you found anything to substantiate your smear, I wouldn’t have heard the end of it.

    Instead, now it’s “silly”.

    I asked you to man up, and true to form, you won’t.

    Dishonest. Immoral. Liar. Coward.

    random viking (6a54c2)

  196. Off-topic:

    Today’s gerrymandering ruling by the SCOTUS in Abbott v. Perez is indeed the victory by the Texas AG’s office (and thereby the Texas GOP in this instance) that it’s being portrayed as by the tiny portion of the media that found oxygen to notice.

    As a consequence, the Dems are almost certain to be unable to use the courts to eke out a court-ordered district redrawing that could benefit them in 2018 and 2020 congressional elections. Texas is expected to gain at least two, and probably three, new seats after the 2020 Census, at the expense of coastal blue states.

    And by which time perhaps Justice Kennedy will have retired and his successor can turn Justice Scalia’s Vieth v. Jubelirer plurality from 2004 into a full-blown majority opinion, thereby mostly getting the federal courts out of the redistricting business.

    (The exception will still be via the vestigial provisions of the Voting Rights Act of 1965, especially the now-grown-odious section 5 thereof which conclusively brands modern Texans guilty of the Jim Crow racism of their grandparents and great-grandparents. I think it’s become unconstitutional itself because it is unhinged causally from any arguable legitimacy as part of Congress’ enforcement of remedial provisions for past violations of the Fourteenth Amendment; but that, too, would have to await Justice Kennedy’s departure before the SCOTUS might so hold.)

    Trying to roll back any part of the Voting Rights Act will, of course, ignite (yet another) firestorm of accusations about racism. But rules implemented during the 1960s for excellent reasons now are being consistently abused, and perhaps least known among them is the provision of that Act which effectively forces the SCOTUS to hear almost every appeal from every Voting Rights Act decision of the lower courts — appeals “as of right,” instead of via discretionary petition for review via a writ of certiorari, which the SCOTUS uses as its primary tool to manage its own docket.

    The SCOTUS’ decision of which lower-court results not to hear is every bit as essential to its playing its proper role under our systems of separations of powers and checks & balances as is the House or Senate leadership’s ability to decide what legislation ought advance to the floor (and what, instead, ought be left to die in committee). But in the 1965 Act, by creating these direct appeals that the SCOTUS (theoretically) can’t duck (although they do a remarkable amount of sidestepping), Congress permanently involved the SCOTUS in all of these cases, whether there are good reasons for the SCOTUS to take up a particular case result or not.

    Justice Scalia had the right of it in Vieth: Redistricting, including political gerrymandering, is inherently political, and the Founders therefore assigned responsibility for it to the most political branch of government, the legislative branch, at the level closest to the individual voter and easiest to throw out for misbehavior, the states:

    We conclude that neither Article I, § 2, nor the Equal Protection Clause, nor … Article I, § 4, provides a judicially enforceable limit on the political considerations that the States and Congress may take into account when districting.

    There being no such judicially enforceable limit on political considerations that the States and Congress may take into account, political gerrymandering is non-justiciable — essentially, none of the federal courts’ business.

    I have seen the Framers’ genius in my lifetime here in Texas, as it transitioned from a one-party Dem state to a one-party GOP state in the most politically legitimate way — from the grassroots up, through the Texas House and Senate, through the Governor, and thence into U.S. House congressional districts. Unhappy with results like that, the Dems remain desperate to disempower state legislatures, and the citizenry who elect them, from the role in redistricting assigned to those state legislatures by the Constitution, by having the federal courts reduce the state legislatures’ role to making helpful suggestions, perhaps, but certainly no final decisions on redistricting. Fighting back against this call for federal judicial usurpation is almost more important than any other politico-legal battle, in terms of its impact on future Congresses. And yet … almost no one understands this, and therefore only the hardcore political nerds pay attention to it at all.

    But if you’re reading this blog, and you’ve read to this point in this comment, you might be one.

    Today’s ruling about Texas is important mostly because of its failure to set precedent, oddly enough. It purports to be, and mostly is, a re-examination of the evidence — supposedly proving racial bias on the part of the Texas Legislature when it created the map mostly upheld today — rather than a refinement or restatement or revision of any legal principles about how to apply that evidence.

    And since we’re waiting for Justice Kennedy to be replaced, a ruling that reaches the right result and doesn’t screw up the law any further in the meantime is a good day’s work.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  197. Thanks now are these districts different than in the 2003 cohort, which prefigured
    What would happen in Wisconsin almost a decade later.

    Narciso (58bdca)

  198. I think Dana ward, got way more leeway then hoagie did, I warned people what a (redacted) he had been on another blog.

    Stuff and nonsense. Hoagie is not banned. The other guy is.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  199. Yes, Paul, like where the only commenter Dave listed was me. But, that’s not a smear in your book, am I right?

    It’s a smear if his comment was provably false, and I think he showed quite clearly that yours was.

    Paul Montagu (00b59c)

  200. I think, the left is trying to get around this by mandating ‘non partisan’ commissions to draw up the districts, so Allen west for example was embedded in a,district some 30 miles from his original one.

    Narciso (58bdca)

  201. No comment necessary… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2D4S1K8HWI

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  202. Your white flag is acknowledged, Dave.

    Olive branch, not white flag.

    You spent all this time culling my comments and came up empty handled.

    LOL. No, I spent all this time driving to a restaurant, browsing this thread on my phone while eating (and posting the offer you spurned), then driving back home.

    It took me all of 90 seconds to find the thread I linked to above, where you defended Trump’s policies, from comments 65 through 218. You expressed not a whit of disagreement or disapproval of those policies anywhere, and you dismissed everyone who suggested alternatives on the grounds that anything short of Trump’s policy would result in dire consequences for you.

    Which is fine. I disagree, but you’re entitled to your opinion. You seemed pretty comfortable – uncompromising in fact – in your support of Trump’s policy in that thread. So why do you try to deny it now?

    None other than the host himself put me in moderation for exactly the logic you’ve now switched to, to which I’m on record as acknowledging.

    As I understood it, you claimed that Patrick never said something that he had, in fact, said (criticizing Bush for nation-building, right?).

    I accused you of “cheering Trump and his policies,” and quoted a thread where you made a dozen or more posts doing just that.

    I offered to apologize if you could point to any evidence that you had, in fact, criticized Trump’s policies and rhetoric – that would be analogous to when you were shown the post that you falsely accused Patrick of never making.

    But you have shown no such evidence, and you’ve declined several opportunities to do so here now. I conclude – in lieu of that evidence – that I accurately characterized your position and owe you no apology.

    Feel free to reconsider, my offer to apologize – if shown evidence of error – remains open.

    FWIW, I was sorry to see you put on moderation and I’m glad it was worked out.

    Dave (445e97)

  203. There’s no such thing as a nonpartisan commission. Someone picks the commissioners.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  204. That’s why I put it in quotes, but people still buy those stale coldcuts.

    Narciso (58bdca)

  205. I’ve found following these rules work well:

    1) Never resort to name-calling or epithets in lieu of a rational argument. (Ex: Trumpalo, Trumpkin, Deplorable, cultist)
    2) Never hold yourself out as a model of reasoned discussion. Just practice it.

    Try it.

    random viking (6a54c2) — 5/15/2018 @ 8:58 am

    Offered without comment:

    Liar. Now who should be ashamed? I’m convinced, after countless delusional comments from you, Dave, you’re incapable of shame.

    random viking (6a54c2) — 6/25/2018 @ 5:45 pm

    No, I’m calling you dishonest, immoral and a liar.

    random viking (6a54c2) — 6/25/2018 @ 6:23 pm

    In the meantime, you remain dishonest, immoral and a liar.

    random viking (6a54c2) — 6/25/2018 @ 6:56 pm

    Dishonest. Immoral. Liar. Coward.

    random viking (6a54c2) — 6/25/2018 @ 9:31 pm

    Dave (445e97)

  206. I accused you of “cheering Trump and his policies,” and quoted a thread where you made a dozen or more posts doing just that.

    Blatant lie, again. You specifically stated I cheered “bigoted rhetoric” — otherwise I wouldn’t have cared. Can you not research your own posts, or is it only others’?

    As I understood it, you claimed that Patrick never said something that he had, in fact, said (criticizing Bush for nation-building, right?).

    That’s a good summary, except that the point of contention regarded who had the burden of proof. Those making the claim must prove the claim. It’s your claim. Prove it. Show where I “cheered bigoted rhetoric.” I should not have to disprove your claim to your satisfaction in order for you to man up.

    random viking (6a54c2)

  207. @182. Not to mention Jimmy Fallon, ‘Florida goes to Trump,’ ‘She blames everybody for losing but herself,’ Kim deals, a-no-more-rocket-overflight-Abe, bad media, good FLOTUS and, of course… “Space Force!” Spit on the griddle; the guy riffs in a league w/dead head cases Robin Williams and Jonathan Winters.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  208. It’s a smear if his comment was provably false, and I think he showed quite clearly that yours was.

    Paul Montagu (00b59c) — 6/25/2018 @ 9:53 pm

    Guilty of the smear, until proven otherwise. The burden is on me. How very Gestapo of you. Yes, that’s a smear against you, Paul. Prove it wrong.

    random viking (6a54c2)

  209. We conclude that neither Article I, § 2, nor the Equal Protection Clause, nor … Article I, § 4, provides a judicially enforceable limit on the political considerations that the States and Congress may take into account when districting.

    The term “political considerations” is key here, is it not? (I.e. “racial” considerations could still run afoul of equal protection, no?)

    I guess I’m kind of shocked that the decision is so unequivocal. Does it mean, in effect, that in a racially homogenous state like, say, Minnesota (to pick one of reasonable size – 8 seats – but still 90% white), the majority party could arrange the districts to create a majority in each of them?

    There are a lot of considerations involved in drawing boundaries. I’m not sure I’m entirely comfortable with a 51-49 state having an 8-0 (or whatever) congressional delegation.

    As a geek, I guess my inclination would be write a computer program designed to draw randomly-seeded(?) but “natural” district boundaries in some equitable way. If the same system was applied across the country, a lot of incidental local advantages due to the details of the algorithm should cancel out, and produce a ~neutral result if both sides can agree on the “objective function” (i.e. what features the computer attempts to maximize).

    The goal of producing a specified spectrum of district profiles from relatively safe to very competitive could be programmed in. The distribution of expected seats in each state could be targeted to match the average house vote over the previous redistricting cycle. The net outcome could be constrained pretty closely (no surprises in the number of safe/lean/toss-up seats for each party) but the district boundaries would be completely different every 10 years, helping dilute the stagnating/corrupting effects of long-term incumbency.

    The code could be open-source, so everybody knows (and can simulate/predict) what it does.

    Not gonna happen, ofc, but interesting to think about.

    Dave (445e97)

  210. That doesn’t even make sense, rv. Never mind.

    Paul Montagu (00b59c)

  211. @ Dave (#219): The claims of racism in modern redistricting litigation always have as their starting presumption that race equals political persuasion — that is, that non-whites vote Democrat, and that if there aren’t “enough” Democrats being elected, it must be because of racism.

    I reject that argument. I believe it is itself prohibited by the Fourteenth Amendment, which on its face (but sadly, not as interpreted by Dems who believe in a living breathing Constitution whose meaning depends on which side of bed one arises on each day), forbids government from sorting people according to race in this way. The purpose of the Fourteenth Amendment was to make the Constitution color-blind, and this — like affirmative action generally — is the exact opposite of that.

    Literally on a block-by-block basis, modern redistricting specialists can tell you how many people vote Republican and how many vote Democrat, and a host of related statistics having everything to do with politics. The old calculus of “Blacks most vote for the Party of Lincoln” or “Blacks must vote for the Party of LBJ” are stereotypes that have been completely superseded for purposes of assessing voting likelihoods, which is what politics, at the sausage-grinding level in every precinct, is actually all about. If your goal is for your own party to maximize its representation — and that’s exactly what it is, up to the point that the voting public selecting state legislators will tolerate, anyway — you want your party’s voters, not “white people” or “brown people.” But for the effects of the above-referenced Section 5, which, as I said above, conclusively (meaning, irrebuttably; the courts will not even consider contrary evidence) presume that grandkids and great grandkids of certain specified states and districts are racist today because their grandfathers and great grandfathers were racist in the distant past), only the terminally stupid would bother to factor in race at all anymore in redistricting.

    You say you wouldn’t want to see a state legislature split 51/49 draw districts sending only the majority party’s nominees to Congress — that is, gerrymandering so severe as to guarantee that one party takes all. Neither would I, and neither would enough other people that in the ensuring state legislative elections, if this were our hot-button issue, we’d flip the majority in the state legislature. It’s easier to flip a state house or state senate district, regardless of how it’s gerrymandered, than it is a federal congressional district, because the latter are vastly more populous. The smaller districts become way less predictable.

    As I say, I’ve seen this happen in Texas. The shoe has been on the other foot in my lifetime: I can vividly remember when George H.W. Bush, from a Houston district that the Dem-controlled Texas Legislature had overpacked with Republicans to keep them from turning any other seats competitive, was one of only three GOP Congressmen, out of twenty-three Congressmen from Texas. Recall that Eisenhower carried Texas twice; there were far more than 3/23rds of Texans who were Republicans. But starting with former Dem governor Tom Connolly’s romance with Nixon, and then accelerating rapidly in the Reagan years, the Texas Legislature started to flip. The Dems went farther and farther to the left, leaving more and more Texans behind, such that 1994 was the last time a Dem won a statewide race (conservative Bob Bullock, Dubya’s lieutenant governor, who supported his presidential bid). Yet due to the Dem gerrymandering in the 1990s as they were losing power, the Texas congressional delegation remained majority Dem well into the next century.

    Well, that sucked. But it got corrected — the right way, the politically legitimate way, through a series of grass-roots elections.

    Politics is raw and ugly. It has always been, and will always be, and the only limitation on that is … politics. Adhering to Nineteenth Century assumptions about race and party — indeed, the whole of the Dems’ identity-group politics — is a loser’s game for either side. Read Scalia’s plurality in Vieth. Courts just can’t fix this; no one but voters can. And they do, actually, as the transformation of Texas demonstrates. (You can find counterexamples in other states going the other direction, too.)

    Beldar (fa637a)

  212. Guilty of the smear, until proven otherwise. The burden is on me. How very Gestapo of you

    It’s terrible when someone smears you and puts the burden on you to disprove it, huh?

    Patterico (631d7a)

  213. *in the ensuing state legislative elections, I meant to write in #222. (Not “ensuring.”)

    Beldar (fa637a)

  214. Also: John Connally, not “Tom.” Blearg.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  215. It’s terrible when someone smears you and puts the burden on you to disprove it, huh?

    Patterico (631d7a) — 6/25/2018 @ 11:43 pm

    Patterico, seeing as how I “manned up” (did I get that right?), it might be in the best interests of civil discourse to call out someone who hasn’t, particularly when the smear is “bigoted rhetoric”.

    But, we’ve been here before. It’s your site, and you can call out whoever you choose, by whatever criteria you choose. I just wish that criteria was known.

    random viking (6a54c2)

  216. Patterico, seeing as how I “manned up” (did I get that right?), it might be in the best interests of civil discourse to call out someone who hasn’t,

    Hopefully Paul will be just as prompt in admitting error as you were. Paul, make him write another 30 comments before you even consider budging!

    I have no idea what this is all about and I don’t care. I just enjoy the extreme irony of random viking complaining about accusations without proof. LOL all day and all night @ “Gestapo” — oh my the drama!

    Sucks to be on the receiving end, doesn’t it? Must be just awful!

    Patterico (115b1f)

  217. I just wish that criteria was known.

    Right now it seems you are being made to “play by your own rules.” Very Trumpy!

    Patterico (115b1f)

  218. rv, surely you understand that as proprietor of the blog, Patrick expects a certain level of courtesy that (since there is no full-time moderation staff) the rest of us are not guaranteed.

    Personally, I think an atmosphere where we are free to communicate with other guests “vigorously” without constant fear of banning or moderation is a good thing. I also believe we should treat each other with basic courtesy while keeping things in perspective (i.e. if someone says something you disagree with, or makes an argument that you find unfair, it doesn’t make them the Gestapo).

    The current situation is that I posted a link to a video of a Mexican-American family being verbally assaulted due to their ethnicity by a Trump supporter, using epithets frequently applied to Latin Americans by President Trump in his tweets and utterances.

    I said that “everyone who cheers on Trump and his bigoted rhetoric should be shamed by it,” meaning that those who support Trump should accept their share of guilt for the evil Trump causes.

    I did not mention random viking or any other commenter here by name, but random viking immediately demanded I do so:

    Dave, please list everyone here “who cheers on Trump and his bigoted rhetoric“. We’ll wait.

    Since I don’t recall ever seeing random viking criticize Trump (he certainly may have, but if so, it is a rare occurrence), I congratulated him on making the list.

    Now, here is where random viking seems to have gotten confused. To me anyone who is an unreserved Trump supporter “cheers on Trump and his bigoted rhetoric”. There are also people like Kevin M, for instance, who support Trump but frequently express strong criticism or reservations about his unhinged/evil behavior. Since most of these voted to put Trump in office, they still bear some responsibility, perhaps mitigated by having awareness of what they’ve done.

    Regardless, random viking, who is never shy to speak up about something he is unhappy about, apparently thinks he can defend Trump and his policies 24×7, never voicing a word of criticism, and yet be absolved of any negative consequences that ensue.

    This whole drama is manufactured by him. We know he supports Trump’s policies.

    He could have responded “I abjure President Trump’s bigoted rhetoric that encourages his supporters to denigrate our fellow Americans,” or words to that effect.

    Or he could have said “I stand proudly with President Trump in stereotyping Latinos as animals, murderers, rapists and drug dealers – MAGA!” or words to that effect.

    Or he could have let my comment, which was not specifically directed at him or anyone else, pass without comment if, as he later tried to claim, it did not apply to him.

    But instead he chose to play the victim card so he could spend hours squealing about being unfairly treated.

    Dave (445e97)

  219. random viking can you point us to a single comment in all your countless posts defending Trump, where you condemned his toxic, bigoted indiscriminate slurs about Mexicans/Latinos being animals, rapists, murderers and drug dealers? Because there’s a general principle that silence implies consent. If you never do anything but defend Trump against every criticism, how is it dishonest to infer that you also agree with his public utterances here?

    If that’s not the case, then make that clear by pointing to an instance where you said so. Or say it here, now.

    If you do, I will happily apologize for misinterpreting your past silence on the matter.

    Dave (59a371) — 6/25/2018 @ 8:38 pm

    Maybe you should question why so many parents bringing their daughters on the long journey to the US border put them on birth control. Is it all the rednecks waiting to rape them when the make it to America or could it be another reason? Nobody has to defend those particular statements by Mr PDJT because your characterization doesn’t match with reality.

    Pinandpuller (bc1dd8)

  220. Maybe you should question why so many parents bringing their daughters on the long journey to the US border put them on birth control. Is it all the rednecks waiting to rape them when the make it to America or could it be another reason?

    Because children of a certain age, placed in close proximity, will eagerly seek opportunities for copulation?

    Dave (445e97)

  221. I don’t know if “random viking” is the same person who used to comment here as just plain “random”, among more than half a dozen other aliases he used to get around being banned multiple times, and I will follow Patterico’s ruling in Ex Parte Hoagie and not inquire, but the disingenuousness, deliberate obtuseness, and outright crapweaselness is the same. Just ignore the dork (which, BTW, is a request that “random” himself made when facing banning one time) or, if you don’t mind playing with him, don’t treat him like a serious person. He is not (a serious person) in either incarnation.

    nk (dbc370)

  222. Because children of a certain age, placed in close proximity, will eagerly seek opportunities for copulation?

    That’s what Milo Yiannopoulos said. What kind of children do you know, Dave?

    nk (dbc370)

  223. But let’s be fair. Pinandpuller wrote:

    Maybe you should question why so many parents bringing their daughters on the long journey to the US border put them on birth control.


    Says who, Pinandpuller?

    nk (dbc370)

  224. nk:

    #233. That just begs to be taken out of context…

    Appalled (96665e)

  225. I think both Pindanpuller’s and Dave’s assertions are unlikely, Appalled, (how many poor people in deeply Catholic countries can get birth control for their kids in the first place?) but Dave’s is the sillier.

    nk (dbc370)

  226. I think it is, at least to the extent Judaism (and religion more generally) has historically tended to be an inherited racial or regional characteristic of birth.

    I think a politically targeted (i.e. intended to express political opposition to particular government policies or officeholders or candidates) denial of service is, ipso facto, an act of protected political speech.

    OTOH, a racially/religiously/gender/orientation/etc targeted (i.e. intended to express disapproval or hostility to groups based on some characteristic of birth) denial of service is NOT an act of protected political speech, so the law may regulate it as long as it does so in an even-handed way).

    Dave (445e97) — 6/25/2018 @ 6:07 pm

    Once again proving your statism and support for leftist ideology.

    NJRob (b00189)

  227. Why Dave has gone extra squirrel

    https://mobile.twitter.com/farleftwatch/status/10115

    Narciso (7658f4)

  228. You know what, let’s talk about civility once we have a president who didn’t launch his campaign by calling immigrants rapists.

    2,300 kids shuttled all over the country without their parents because this administration believes that child abuse deters illegal immigration, and we’re over here fretting that Sarah Sanders can’t eat her farm-to-table Caesar salad in peace?

    I have no tears for incivility in response to the dehumanization upon which Trumpism is entirely predicated.

    TR (2c5752)

  229. So it’s a strategy, regardless what the squirrel caller are saying.

    Narciso (7658f4)

  230. They pay people for these refried nostrum good grief

    Narciso (7658f4)

  231. illegal immigrants love raping women that’s why they put their anchor-daughters on birth control pills so they can get raped but won’t end up with a pregnancy (unwanted rape baby)

    it’s a different kind of culture, an not a particularly american one if you think about it cause real Americans would never put their children at such high risk of getting raped by illegal immigrants

    it’s troubling that’s for sure

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  232. oops *and* not a particularly American one i mean

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  233. Yes they were taken away from coyote who would barter them for his knows what, the downs syndrome boy was one of these.

    Yes it’s a broad based characterization like say deplorable which covers a whole spectrum of thought crime.

    Narciso (7658f4)

  234. coyotes are bad hombres and a lot of the girls in their care get raped by illegal immigrants, en route as they say

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  235. when is this goddamn whirl cup thing gonna be over anyway

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  236. July 15th, pikachu, you have a ways to go.

    Narciso (7658f4)

  237. I’m conflicted about this issue. There are good arguments on both sides. At the moment, unilateral disarmament (a.k.a. being a wimp) is not winning the argument.

    This jerk has made being an ass his trademark. He and his gang deserve no sympathy. I’m sure he regards kindness as weakness anyway. You have to fight fire with fire with him since that’s all he understands.

    Tillman (d34303)

  238. No, pikachu, the demand for labor has been so developed, that as with any commodity the most ruthless providers prevail,

    Narciso (7658f4)

  239. Back in 2014, the cartel was the delivery mechanism for many of the daca triggered incursion, t hats why judge Hanen who actually read the law stepped up.

    Narciso (7658f4)

  240. need moar robots

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  241. Something goes right in CA:

    A federal judge Monday tossed out two groundbreaking lawsuits by San Francisco and Oakland that sought to hold some of the world’s largest oil companies liable for climate change…..

    …..The lawsuits argue that like tobacco companies, the oil firms create a public nuisance and should be held accountable. San Francisco alone estimates that rising seas at the hands of climate change has put $10 billion of public property and as much as $39 billion of private land at risk.”

    [Sea level rise that is so dangerous, so imminent that both cities failed to include it in their insurance filings.]

    The ruling also pondered common sense:

    “…..“It is true,” the court continued, “that carbon dioxide released from fossil fuels has caused (and will continue to cause) global warming. But against that negative, we must weigh this positive: our industrial revolution and the development of our modern world has literally been fueled by oil and coal. Without these fuels, virtually all of our monumental progress would have been impossible. All of us have benefitted. Having reaped the benefit of that historic progress, would it really be fair to now ignore our own responsibility in the use of fossil fuels and place the blame for global warming on those who supplied what we demanded? Is it really fair, in light of those benefits, to say that the sale of fossil fuels was unreasonable?””

    Watch out – these cities are going broke so they’ll either try again or look for another successful business to loot.

    harkin (e5c973)

  242. illegal immigrants love raping women

    The wisdom of a Trump superfan.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  243. I don’t know if “random viking” is the same person who used to comment here as just plain “random”, among more than half a dozen other aliases he used to get around being banned multiple times, and I will follow Patterico’s ruling in Ex Parte Hoagie and not inquire, but the disingenuousness, deliberate obtuseness, and outright crapweaselness is the same

    No no. Tell me more about this “random” person. Reasons for previous bannings. Previous names. Everything you remember.

    *puts hand on chin and settles in for a long discussion*

    Tell me everything.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  244. i love President Trump cause he’s trying to make it to where we have a good future

    have you read some of the favorable media reports about his agenda?

    The enthusiasm is infectious and it’s because of the new policies!

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  245. At this point, Patterico might be thinking of requiring Facebook commenting, or a “show me your hands” (on the keyboard) call-out that I see on sites like the thehoodup.com.

    urbanleftbehind (cdf37a)

  246. It was one of Christoph Dollis’s early aliases. I think the one he used when he was a member of (I’m not making this up) the Foreskin Awareness Project. (Or maybe the Canadian Foreskin Awareness Project.) They opposed male circumcision. Militantly. That would be maybe ten years ago. But I could be wrong. I will not swear to it. A lot of these Richard Spencer fans sound alike.

    nk (dbc370)

  247. Tell me everything.

    Patterico (115b1f) — 6/26/2018 @ 6:56 am

    Notice the Pavlovian reflex to (how am I supposed to put this? Can’t use the “d” word) “make someone the subject of a long research trail” here. I am not whoever was called “random”, but proceed with the Hoagie treatment. So emblematic. Embrace it.

    random viking (6a54c2)

  248. I think it was sarcasm.

    harkin (e5c973)

  249. “We have to build a wall because Democrats wouldn’t let us have a border.”

    —- Bill Whittle

    Oh, and it must be kept intact!

    Colonel Haiku (59ae41)

  250. It’s not that all illegals love raping women.

    It’s the number of rape victims who would not be rape victims if the rapists had not immigrated illegally.

    Same with all the other victims of illegal immigrant crime.

    Between 2008 and 2014, 40% of all murder convictions in Florida were criminal aliens. In New York it was 34% and Arizona 17.8%.
    During those years, criminal aliens accounted for 38% of all murder convictions in the five states of California, Texas, Arizona, Florida and New York, while illegal aliens constitute only 5.6% of the total population in those states.
    That 38% represents 7,085 murders out of the total of 18,643.”

    Source: GAO

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/08/08/illegal-alien-crime-accounts-for-over-30-of-murders-in-some-states/

    harkin (e5c973)

  251. I think it was sarcasm.
    harkin (e5c973) — 6/26/2018 @ 7:47 am

    Me too. But see if you can follow me on this for a lesson on deadpan humor.

    Johnny Carson: Man, it was really cold in Burbank today.
    Audience: HOW COLD WAS IT?
    Johnny Carson: I was so cold, I saw a lawyer with his hands in his own pockets.

    Now, Tommy Smothers parodying Johnny Carson:
    Tommy: Man, it was really cold in Burbank today.
    Audience: HOW COLD WAS IT?
    Tommy: 47.

    nk (dbc370)

  252. *It* was so cold, I saw a lawyer with his hands in his own pockets.

    nk (dbc370)

  253. What the eff does that have to do with separating 2,300 kids from their parents tho?

    TR (167a32)

  254. “What the eff does that have to do with separating 2,300 kids from their parents tho?

    IOW: ignore all the problems associated with illegal immigration so we can beat this issue that we ignored when it was happening under Obama, we’ve got midterms to target.

    harkin (e5c973)

  255. “Tommy: 47.”

    https://youtu.be/oghxf-HS6go

    harkin (e5c973)

  256. Paul, make him write another 30 comments before you even consider budging!

    I could be that a$$hole and do that, but I withdraw as I don’t need the brain damage. I only butted in because of rv’s doxxing smear.

    Paul Montagu (00b59c)

  257. #267 It’s unclear whether you’re ignorant as to the differences brought by zero tolerance or if you’re being intellectually dishonest?

    TR (167a32)

  258. @256.i love President Trump cause he’s trying to make it to where we have a good future have you read some of the favorable media reports about his agenda? The enthusiasm is infectious and it’s because of the new policies!

    A season ticket holder, eh, Mr. Feet!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  259. “#267 It’s unclear whether you’re ignorant as to the differences brought by zero tolerance or if you’re being intellectually dishonest?”

    Kids were still in cages separated from their parents under Obama. A lot of kids also disappeared w adults who could not prove they were even related and the kids were basically rented off as servitude, often under extremely harsh conditions. The fed agency that was supposed to track them even prevented follow-up.

    https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jun/19/flashback-obama-admin-placed-border-children-human/

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/did-obama-administration-children-human-traffickers/

    But there was no deranged hatred for the President by all you angels of mercy back then; why not?

    harkin (e5c973)

  260. Democrats are so smart they are volunteering to be in Republican campaign ads:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/WiredSources/status/1011770187228569601/video/1

    harkin (e5c973)

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