Patterico's Pontifications

6/21/2018

AP: Trump Trump Unrelated Alleged Abuse of Immigrant Children Trump Trump Trump

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:16 am



The AP reports on allegations of abuse of immigrant children at a federal detention center, making sure to draw a connection between the allegations and President Trump’s crackdown on illegal gang members:

Immigrant children as young as 14 housed at a juvenile detention center in Virginia say they were beaten while handcuffed and locked up for long periods in solitary confinement, left nude and shivering in concrete cells.

The abuse claims against the Shenandoah Valley Juvenile Center near Staunton, Virginia, are detailed in federal court filings that include a half-dozen sworn statements from Latino teens jailed there for months or years. Multiple detainees say the guards stripped them of their clothes and strapped them to chairs with bags placed over their heads.

“Whenever they used to restrain me and put me in the chair, they would handcuff me,” said a Honduran immigrant who was sent to the facility when he was 15 years old. “Strapped me down all the way, from your feet all the way to your chest, you couldn’t really move. … They have total control over you. They also put a bag over your head. It has little holes; you can see through it. But you feel suffocated with the bag on.”

In addition to the children’s first-hand, translated accounts in court filings, a former child-development specialist who worked inside the facility independently told The Associated Press this week that she saw kids there with bruises and broken bones they blamed on guards. She spoke on condition of anonymity because she was not authorized to publicly discuss the children’s cases.

In court filings, lawyers for the detention facility have denied all allegations of physical abuse.

Many of the children were sent there after U.S. immigration authorities accused them of belonging to violent gangs, including MS-13. President Donald Trump has repeatedly cited gang activity as justification for his crackdown on illegal immigration.

Damn that Donald Trump and his mistreatment of immigrant children! This never would have happened under President Ob — say, when did all this stuff allegedly happen? 19 paragraphs down, we are given a hint:

The complaint filed by the nonprofit Washington Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights and Urban Affairs recounts the story of an unnamed 17-year-old Mexican citizen apprehended at the southern border. The teen fled an abusive father and violence fueled by drug cartels to seek asylum in the United States in 2015.

After stops at facilities in Texas and New York, he was transferred to Shenandoah in April 2016 and diagnosed during an initial screening by a psychologist with three mental disorders, including depression. Besides weekly sessions speaking with a counselor, the lawsuit alleges the teen has received no further mental health treatment, such as medications that might help regulate his moods and behavior.

As a reminder, President Donald J. Trump was inaugurated on January 20, 2017 (to the biggest crowds ever!!!!!1!).

I should add that a reading of the complaint itself does not make it clear when these things allegedly happened — nor, frankly, does the identity of the President much matter, if they did. The allegations typically begin with vague phrases like “on one occasion….” These are only allegations, and the things the lawsuit alleges may have happened and they may not have. If they happened, they likely happened under both Obama and Trump — not just Obama, and not just Trump.

Perhaps more importantly, as the 10th paragraph of the article tells you, this has basically nothing to do with Trump’s family separation policy — oh wait, he doesn’t have a family separation policy, that’s just too much Big Media reading kicking in (wink) — with Trump’s policy of zero tolerance for immigration lawbreakers:

Most children held in the Shenandoah facility who were the focus of the abuse lawsuit were caught crossing the border illegally alone. They were not the children who have been separated from their families under the Trump administration’s recent policy and are now in the government’s care. But the facility there operates under the same program run by the U.S. Office of Refugee Resettlement. It was not immediately clear whether any separated children have been sent to Shenandoah Valley since the Trump administration in April announced its “zero tolerance” policy toward immigrant families, after the lawsuit was filed.

It was also not “immediately clear” why the word Obama appears nowhere in the story.

(H/t to @JammieWF via Allahpundit.)

UPDATE: The AP has since added a line to the story stating: “The incidents described in the lawsuit occurred from 2015 to 2018, during both the Obama and Trump administrations.” This was no doubt added after a conservative outcry over the way the story made it sound like a Trump administration issue. This is not how the story read this morning and I can prove it. Fortunately, the original version was still open in a tab on my computer when I got home today. You can read the text of the entire original version of the story here, where I cut and pasted it into a page. Here is what the relevant passage looked like this morning:

AP Story Original

And here is what it looks like now. Note the added language in the third paragraph, beginning with the words “In court filings”:

AP Story Revised

If you thought conservatives had simply overlooked that language, you were wrong. We hadn’t.

[Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.]

199 Responses to “AP: Trump Trump Unrelated Alleged Abuse of Immigrant Children Trump Trump Trump”

  1. Live by a craven, instrumental relationship with the press, die by one. Repubs have played this game forever, and it works – Trump manipulated it incredibly well, and you got your internment camps.

    So you’ll have to forgive me for not being terribly receptive to whining about their manipulatability now.

    fizzle (51fdf0)

  2. Because you can’t have a two minute hate with context, Sanford ferguson baltimore

    Narciso (4f079d)

  3. Meanwhile dread pirate Roberts strikes again.

    Narciso (4f079d)

  4. Dread pirate Kennedy in this case.

    Narciso (4f079d)

  5. Along with gorsuch.

    Narciso (4f079d)

  6. “God is great.”

    Ed from SFV (389633)

  7. Sounds just like the Stanford Prison Experiment. Oh, wait…

    NJRob (b00189)

  8. Zumbardo was cited an authority ‘re any ghraib

    Narciso (4f079d)

  9. Since there is no date on the article and it’s placed right next to current news, I would say that it is deliberate propaganda. And never mentioned Obama, as you say.

    This is the “neutral” media. Right.

    They really are trying to destroy the country.

    Patricia (3363ec)

  10. Legal question…Suppose an innocent person is in a situation where a riot breaks out and they are hurt. And suppose that this riot can be tied directly to a maliciously reported, inaccurate news report. Perhaps it’s even an opinion piece in a newspaper or said on TV. Suppose one of the rioters caught on camera holding a sign with a unique set of words that was clearly stated in the news report or opinion piece, beating on the innocent person. I’m guessing this not be a criminal matter for the media (or maybe so) but would that innocent person have civil standing to sue the writer and/or the publisher?

    Now this is a highly imaginative situation whose specifics would be quite low on the probability scale, admittedly. But supposing?

    Skorcher (5b282a)

  11. The neutral media love Them some Peter Fonda. Imagine Hannity saying that about Schumers kids.

    mg (9e54f8)

  12. Well those 1500 ice agents are still doxxed thanks to the Gollum at nyu.

    Narciso (4f079d)

  13. Germany is stopping the tariff nonesene.. How long until Canada gives in. LMMFAO.

    mg (9e54f8)

  14. True, but no tariff disensitives German production in the us,

    Narciso (4f079d)

  15. Festool rocks.

    mg (9e54f8)

  16. I’m watching Melania Trump meet with ICE/HHS people at a detention center in McAllen, Texas, to ask questions about the circumstances of unaccompanied minor children. Two observations:

    (1) Whether their actual competency levels in the field are high, low, or in-, the people at the center seem wonderfully normal and human, and they clearly appear to be well-focused on the best interests of the children who’ve been entrusted to them. Hearing them speak, even in only a few sentences, is the very best remedy to the press-manufactured politically-inspired outrage over these issues.

    (2) The FLOTUS is doing a world of good for the POTUS. He should be closeted indoors and off-camera all day long to let her take this spotlight. (But of course, he can’t engage in even that much self-discipline.)

    Beldar (fa637a)

  17. If a US citizen handed their kid over to a criminal to sneak them somewhere illegally I would assume the kid would be taken away and the parent charged with endangering or abusing a child.

    There is a story today of a 6 year old abandoned in the AZ desert by a smuggler hired by the child’s mother. Is giving that kid back to the mother in any way in the best interests of the child?

    Nate Ogden (104742)

  18. [story title] Trump administration will stop prosecuting migrant parents who cross the border illegally with children, official says [end story title]

    The dramatic about-face comes just one day after President Trump signed an executive order ending his administration’s widely denounced practice of separating families apprehended at the Mexico border.

    Trump’s order said the government would maintain a “zero tolerance” policy toward those who break the law, but a senior U.S. official, when asked to explain how the federal government would change enforcement practices, told The Washington Post that Border Patrol agents have been instructed to stop sending parents with children to federal courthouses for prosecution.

    We’re suspending prosecutions of adults who are members of family units until ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) can accelerate resource capability to allow us to maintain custody,” the official said. wapo (emph. added)

    Q! (86710c)

  19. i love president trump he cares for the children and the children love him with all their hearts

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  20. Belmar you want Trump to put an Eastern European as the face of the administration? The cries of Russian Collusion and handing over power to Russia would be endless. Never Trumpets would have a field day twisting that into conspiracy theories.

    Nate Ogden (104742)

  21. So no more zero tolerance if you have a child with you? Imagine how many children will flood our border now.

    This has been handled beyond stupid. At this point, we should admit we will let immigrants in without legal consequences.

    DRJ (15874d)

  22. There is no way to bring criminal charges and keep families together unless we are willing to jail the entire family (and that is probably unconstitutional).

    DRJ (15874d)

  23. Build the wall.

    DRJ (15874d)

  24. Who promised us Trump is tough? He’s a pushover if they use women and children. I hope China and North Korea aren’t paying attention.

    DRJ (15874d)

  25. Sorry, the interview (#16) was at a Lutheran Social Services of the South center, which is entrusted with 55 children (at present) by HHS. And now Trump’s on TV, preempting her as he reads — Teleprompter Trump, not Rally Trump — a policy statement so boring that it’s obviously boring him too.

    @ skorcher, who asked (#10) about the potential civil liability of news media to innocent bystanders injured when the media’s reporting has sparked a riot:

    The answer to your question may vary substantially from state to state. At common law, the criminal acts of the rioters would be deemed a “superseding cause” which, as a matter of public policy, is considered the “sole proximate cause” of the injuries. “Sue the guy who hit you with the brick, not the guy whose lie prompted him to do it,” the common law would say.

    Some states have relaxed those old common-law rules, though, either through judicial decisions or by statute, or a combination of both. In most Texas state courts, a claim by this sort of plaintiff would be thrown out without a trial, just based on the pleadings. But would that also be true in California or Florida or Massachusetts? I genuinely don’t know, nor would I make a guess.

    Even if the injured bystander’s lawsuit against the media isn’t thrown out of court before it gets to a jury, the jury would still have to consider causation very closely, and the media defendant is going to have a pretty easy time making to the jury the “blame the guy who threw the brick” argument that underlay the “superseding cause” tort doctrine in the first place.

    Overriding all this, however, the media could potentially assert a defense based upon federal First Amendment law. As interpreted by NYT v. Sullivan, state-law tort plaintiffs alleging the intentional tort of defamation (typically libel) may have to jump through extra hoops to prove “actual malice” as defined by federal court decisions, rather than just the elements of the tort as defined by state law. Particularly if the underlying publication was one of opinion and/or relates to matters of controversial public policy (e.g., immigration) or public figures (e.g., Trump) — which, in a mob scenario, will almost always be the case — I think such an argument could be made with a straight face. But I can’t say that I’ve ever seen this come up, nor have I done any research; this is a hipshot opinion, not much better than an informed guess, and if other lawyers who comment here want to add to or contradict what I’ve just written, I’ll take no offense.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  26. Cadet Bone Spurs does not stick to his guns. He talks a brave fight but when he hears the enemies’ bugles he throws them (his guns) down and takes to his heels.

    nk (9651fb)

  27. maybe it was the paralegal who spoke to the post:

    https://twitter.com/esaagar/status/1009841592276930560

    narciso (d1f714)

  28. keep jumping to conclusions, you’ll get shin splits.

    narciso (d1f714)

  29. I think Beldar is right. Hard to know for sure but that would be my guess, too.

    I thought Sessions might be fired over the way this rolled out, but seeing how Trump undercut and has essentially destroyed the zero tolerance policy makes me think Sessions should quit over it.

    DRJ (15874d)

  30. So no more zero tolerance if you have a child with you? Imagine how many children will flood our border now.

    I don’t view WaPo links due to a refusal to subscribe to them or the use a cheating end round. Did the WaPo story have a named source?

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  31. seeing as his name was on the letterhead, but the original decision goes to back to 2014

    https://twitter.com/shadowfax_82/status/1009807864339337216

    narciso (d1f714)

  32. 24, well you are correct to the point that South Korea (and our esteemed Rev. Hoagie) need not worry about the Nork integration…they might decide to come here. Quick, casting call for emaciated Asians and chamacos in Trump 2020 commervials.

    urbanleftbehind (c8adc7)

  33. I think that China and North Korea already have his number. Their psychological profile of him. I wish the Congressional Republicans did too.

    nk (9651fb)

  34. An eastern Euro as face might be the happy medium in that they had their time as “DP”and even ocean wetbacks, but now they are the gate guardian of Europe. The Rancho, non-cartel Mexican in Mexico should take note.

    urbanleftbehind (c8adc7)

  35. the mr. snufflefalapugus sourcing rule is not good for bezos,

    would the son in law of castro’s version of karla, lie to you?

    narciso (d1f714)

  36. @30. No named source, and the link no longer works. In the updated story/link, the spokesman for the DOJ denies the report of the “senior official” previously quoted. wapo (“A spokeswoman for the Justice Department, Sarah Isgur Flores, denied that prosecutions would be suspended. [Para.] ‘There has been no change to the Department’s zero tolerance policy to prosecute adults who cross our border illegally instead of claiming asylum at any port of entry at the border.’”). I imagine that this will pan out as there being a lack of coordination between left and right hands . . . a fairly frequent occurrence in this administration.

    Q! (86710c)

  37. hey you broke you buy it:

    https://www.thestar.com/vancouver/2018/06/18/canada-detains-migrant-kids-too-and-it-needs-to-stop-experts-say.html

    then again considering Trudeau spent 10 million for the gitmo detainee yoot, he might do even worse,

    narciso (d1f714)

  38. Thank you, Q!.

    Feel better now, DRJ?

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  39. OT, but this is the simple s*&( that should have been going on from Day 1: http://www.yahoo.com/news/white-house-propose-merging-education-labor-130233598–politics.html

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  40. (1) Whether their actual competency levels in the field are high, low, or in-, the people at the center seem wonderfully normal and human, and they clearly appear to be well-focused on the best interests of the children who’ve been entrusted to them. Hearing them speak, even in only a few sentences, is the very best remedy to the press-manufactured politically-inspired outrage over these issues.

    Not really, since the main line in the press is not to attack the people who are staffing the centers, but to claim that they are getting far more kids than they can handle. The charges of inhumanity seem to be focused on the LEOs and bureaucrats who take custody of them from the parents and deliver them to the centers.

    The trauma the kids the suffer at the center is mostly passive: not being with their family, and having no way of knowing when they will be reunited with them.

    kishnevi (bb03e6)

  41. don’t view WaPo links due to a refusal to subscribe to them or the use a cheating end round.

    Use “view link in incognito[private] tab”. Or flush out the cookies on a regular basis from WaPo. I don’t consider it cheating because I’m not receiving anything of real value from the WaPo to begin with.
    This also works for the NYT.

    kishnevi (bb03e6)

  42. @19. i love president trump he cares for the children and the children love him with all their hearts

    Ahhh yes, Mr. Feet, yes indeeddd…

    “I’m very fond of children. Girl children, around eighteen or twenty.” – Egbert Sousé [W.C. Fields] ‘The Bank Dick’ 1940

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  43. Goal!!!!

    Our Captain has performed a reversal, a steal and a scissor kick with an assist from Melania and scored!!! The media back on defense.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  44. “ I don’t consider it cheating because I’m not receiving anything of real value from the WaPo to begin with.
    This also works for the NYT.”

    Spread the word, kishnevi!

    Colonel Haiku (4428ea)

  45. if you follow the wrong narrative:

    https://twitter.com/Doc_0/status/1009822100687872000

    narciso (d1f714)

  46. “I think that China and North Korea already have his number. Their psychological profile of him.”

    “Donald Trump is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I’ve ever known in my life.”

    —- nk

    Colonel Haiku (4428ea)

  47. this is the judgement that gave us the lone ranger remake

    https://twitter.com/THR/status/1009749049828954114

    narciso (d1f714)

  48. Maybe Cruz really did want to have a bill that would keep illegal immigrant parents and children together, but Cruz is nothing if not a political animal and the polling in Texas tells a story: Only 27% of registered voters supported zero-tolerance while 57% opposed. The sample size was 1,200 and occurred mostly before the media firestorm erupted (the survey occurred June 8th through June 17th, and the story went viral on the 15th-16th).

    Paul Montagu (54c2a3)

  49. Trump Trump Trump Argentina Goalie Trump Trump Trump

    They’ve still got 35 minutes but holy heck what a boner.

    Whoa Croatia just missed a second!

    harkin (e5c973)

  50. No, BuDuh, I do not feel better. I have explained since yesterday at The Jury and here why we cannot have zero tolerance and keep families together but apparently no one believes me, so I am through discussing it. Even if Congress can pass legislation (which looks doubtful), it won’t matter unless they change the criminal law rules that apply to illegal entry cases, and I doubt that will happen.

    This was either a trial balloon from the White House or, more likely, someone at the DOJ acknowledging reality. Now Trump is left hoping for help from Schumer and Pelosi.

    DRJ (15874d)

  51. Yeah, that one with Depp and occidental oil scion causes Strange New Respect for the 1980 film.
    Trivia: in that 1980 Lone Ranger film, who played villain Butch Cavendish? Hint: Free College for All.

    urbanleftbehind (c8adc7)

  52. Paul,

    Your link says Texans oppose separating parents and children. I don’t think it says the oppose zero tolerance. I think most people believe we can have zero tolerance without separating families but I don’t think that’s possible unless we use the Obama model, which isn’t zero tolerance.

    I can’t find any polling that shows how Texans feel about prosecuting immigrants for illegal entry, but I’m a native Texan and most West Texans support it — even Texas Hispanics, because they have family that want to come here legally but can’t because there are no slots.

    DRJ (15874d)

  53. C Lloyd.

    Boy I haven’t thought about that abysmal film in a long time. I think we actually left the dive-in after a couple rounds.

    Klinton Spilsbury was no Mike Blueberry.

    harkin (e5c973)

  54. Whoops drive-in lol

    harkin (e5c973)

  55. Citizens are separated from their children all the time when they have to spend time in the clink for committing a crime.

    Gryph (08c844)

  56. i thought the dive-in part happened anyway.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  57. ?

    The incidents described in the lawsuit occurred from 2015 to 2018, during both the Obama and Trump administrations.

    https://apnews.com/afc80e51b562462c89907b49ae624e79

    Tillman (d34303)

  58. Since there was an earthquake in Mexico after the goal against Germany I can only assume a black hole is opening up in Buenos Aires.

    harkin (e5c973)

  59. Hellmouth followed by shaihulud.

    narciso (69bae6)

  60. Your link says Texans oppose separating parents and children. I don’t think it says the oppose zero tolerance.
    True, DRJ, the wording in the poll (link) didn’t actually say “zero tolerance” but the polling question does represent the policy, IMO. Quote:

    Do you support or oppose separating children and parents who are apprehended while
    trying to enter the U.S. illegally?

    An important question in the poll was “most important problem facing the State of Texas today”. A full 30% picked immigration and border security while all the other problems were in the single digits.

    Paul Montagu (54c2a3)

  61. No, BuDuh, I do not feel better.

    I would have thought being armed with the knowledge that The WaPa ran an incorrect story that led to this comment from you:

    Who promised us Trump is tough? He’s a pushover if they use women and children. I hope China and North Korea aren’t paying attention.

    would provide you some comfort now that you know that it is ok for China and NK to pay attention. Trump is standing strong.

    Although those countries may still be paying attention to our feckless congress. Which may bring you back down.

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  62. Tillman (d34303) — 6/21/2018 @ 12:37 pm

    Tillman, note that the article which Patterico linked to now has a timestamp of “14 minutes ago” (as of this moment) even though this post from Patterico is now five hours old. I would be willing to bet that the AP has updated their article and added Obama’s name because so many people are complaining about their ham-handed attempts to tie this on Trump.

    JVW (42615e)

  63. @63 That could well be, JVW.

    Tillman (d34303)

  64. I think most support immediate deportation which is why that question is never asked by the media.

    NJRob (4d9715)

  65. Soon to be a Netflix comedy with corey still and Krista allen:

    http://thehill.com/latino/393532-stormy-daniels-heading-to

    narciso (69bae6)

  66. Countdown till someone notices the jacket………

    harkin (e5c973)

  67. The only difference between flores then and now, is the 9th circus has become deranged also two pieces of legislation in 2002 and 2008 that Reinhardt elided.

    narciso (69bae6)

  68. 53. DRJ (15874d) — 6/21/2018 @ 12:22 pm

    even Texas Hispanics, because they have family that want to come here legally but can’t because there are no slots.

    What? Do they actually believe that the way to get more slots is to crack down oin illegal immigration???

    The opposite is the case! Look at what President Trump proposes: Ending chain migration = Fewer slots for relatives.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  69. The decision was filed eight months ago, why are we hearing about it now,?

    narciso (69bae6)

  70. “Most voters blame the parents of the separated children at the border for the latest illegal immigration crisis, not the federal government.

    When families are arrested and separated after attempting to enter the United States illegally, 54% of Likely U.S. Voters say the parents are more to blame for breaking the law. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone and online survey finds that only 35% believe the federal government is more to blame for enforcing the law. Eleven percent (11%) are not sure.”

    http://m.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/immigration/june_2018/voters_blame_parents_not_feds_for_border_children_crisis

    harkin (e5c973)

  71. Does anyone think that if Congress gets the law to the point that where anything they say goes, they will make legal immigration easier? That doesn’t make any sense. They will make it harder because an even more restrictive law will stick.

    I really can’t believe that Texas Hispanics are that stupid. Some might support enforcement, but not because it will lead to greater legal immigration, or prevent a reduction.

    This sounds like more anti-immigration propaganda: Look: Even Hispanics support more zealous enforcement.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  72. We’re definitely getting mixed messages today from the Trump administration. One department says they’ll stop referring migrant parents who cross into the United States illegally with children to federal courthouses to face criminal charges, and another department asked the Pentagon to make preparations to house as many as 20,000 unaccompanied migrant children on American military bases.

    Paul Montagu (54c2a3)

  73. “I really can’t believe that Texas Hispanics are that stupid.”

    I’m missing something here. Why should all Hispanics have the same opinion?

    harkin (e5c973)

  74. “A six-year-old Costa Rican boy wandering alone in the scalding desert was rescued by Ajo Station Border Patrol agents on Tuesday evening, according to a report by the United States Department of Homeland Security’s Customs and Border Protection.

    The abandoned boy told agents his uncle dropped him off and that Border Patrol would pick him up — a line they’ve heard a million times before, to be sure.

    The boy also said he was en route to see his mother, who was living in America.

    He was found abandoned west of Lueville, Arizona, and just north of the U.S.-Mexico border, in oppressive temperatures of more than 100 degrees.

    Still, the child appeared to be in good condition. He was subsequently taken to Tucson, Arizona, for further processing.

    The scenario is all but cliché, sadly.

    Some 100,000 children were found along the U.S.-Mexico border in 2015 and 2016”

    https://www.lifezette.com/momzette/border-patrol-rescues-immigrant-boy-left-alone-by-smugglers-in-blazing-heat/?utm_medium=ppt&utm_source=pushnotification

    harkin (e5c973)

  75. Sammy, I think they are astute enough to know a crackdown is the better way to maintain the status quo, at this point an increase in legal immigration is a pipe dream. An amnesty would come at the cost of a near permanent exclusion (like the Chinese Exclusion Act) and/or a proportionate removal of those in the queue (using an age/infirmity cutoff, no one outside of nuclear family etc).

    urbanleftbehind (54e160)

  76. @56. Citizens are separated from their children all the time when they have to spend time in the clink for committing a crime.

    You know what the difference is between Fox News telecasting video clips of homecoming troops reuniting with their kids at a ball park and CNN or MSNBC broadcasting videos of undocumented parents reuniting with their kids at a detention center?

    Nothing.

    “You’re television incarnate, Diana: Indifferent to suffering; insensitive to joy. All of life is reduced to the common rubble of banality. War, murder, death are all the same to you as bottles of beer. And the daily business of life is a corrupt comedy. You even shatter the sensations of time and space into split seconds and instant replays. You’re madness, Diana. Virulent madness.” – Max Schumacher [William Holden] ‘Network’ 1976

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  77. 74. harkin (e5c973) — 6/21/2018 @ 2:08 pm

    Why should all Hispanics have the same opinion?

    No reason.

    I was referring back to #53, to which I had already responded to @69 before adding that @72.

    DRJ wrote that

    I can’t find any polling that shows how Texans feel about prosecuting immigrants for illegal entry, but I’m a native Texan and most West Texans support it [prosecution] — even Texas Hispanics, because they have family that want to come here legally but can’t because there are no slots.

    She was giving a reason why Texas Hispanics would support prosecution.

    urbanleftbehind gives a reason why they might oppose many amnesty proposals – because it might be coupled with a reduction in family based immigration, (not actually likely, Democrats won’t vote for that) We';re assuming here now we are talking about people who want more family based immigration.

    But that’s not a reason for someone who feels that way to support a crackdown on illegal immigrants. A crackdown, in fact, might lead to such bills (amnesty in exchange for reduced legal immigration * ) having a higher chance of passage.

    Any such person would more likely support continuing with the status quo in all respects.

    * That’s what Trump is trying to sell, but nobody’s buying.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  78. narciso @70

    A news hook, I suppose.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  79. “She was giving a reason why Texas Hispanics would support prosecution.”

    I would hazard to guess that TX Hispanics are a group with a wide range of individual political priorities and concerns. When you let a million or so in illegally, you’re bound to have more with an interest in continued immigration but there are millions of third+ generation Hispanics in Texas with no strong connection to Mexico at all.

    harkin (e5c973)

  80. Dr. K. gone. RIP

    Colonel Haiku (4428ea)

  81. R.I.P. Charles Krauthammer

    Ad Astra; ride the rocket, to the stars.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  82. Brings a tear to the eye.

    Colonel Haiku (4428ea)

  83. … armed with the knowledge that The WaPa ran an incorrect story …

    We’ll see. You are convinced it is an incorrect story. I’m not.

    DRJ (15874d)

  84. RIP CK

    Seems like one voice of reason exits to be replaced by thousands of squawking delusionals.

    harkin (e5c973)

  85. Even if the story is incorrect because Trump sincerely intends to keep the zero tolerance policy and reunite families, IMO he can’t deliver. Congress could but it won’t because it would have to change the relevant criminal laws. For instance, it could change the laws so jurisdiction and venue for criminal proceedings would be in Houston or New York or any big town that could house/jail many people, instead of on the border. But that won’t happen. And that is just one of many problems that won’t be fixed.

    DRJ (15874d)

  86. As with the immigration pause, judges disdainful of the law are a problem.

    http://mobile.twitter.com/arthurschwartz/status/10

    Narciso (2626ce)

  87. ‘re the getty pic

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article

    Narciso (2626ce)

  88. So the liberal news media is spending countless hours telling America about Trump’s ripping (and dragging) children from their innocent parents to pack them in a warehouse……..

    Meanwhile…..

    “Portland, Oregon, has continued to experience rapid urban decay in recent years, and the consequences for businesses and residents have been dramatic. In 2016, Columbia Sportswear, a major retailer, relocated a considerable number of its staff to downtown Portland. A little over a year later, in a scathing opinion piece in the Oregonian, the company’s CEO voiced his regret over the decision. Employees reported repeated criminal offenses, “daily defecation” in the store’s front lobby, and fears of physical violence. One female employee ran into moving traffic to escape a transient individual, screaming that he was going to kill her.”

    https://www.city-journal.org/html/left-coast-lawlessness-15976.html

    harkin (e5c973)

  89. Certainly the purpose of the 2008 law was to prevent trafficking but Reinhardt didn’t care.

    Narciso (2626ce)

  90. Narciso, re your theories about opioids in the heartland: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hampshire-44566153

    urbanleftbehind (868dc7)

  91. 91. If the purpose of the 2008 law was to prevent trafficking, you can bet your bottom dollar that trafficking will increase with the law suspended/reversed. Thanks a lot, Senator Cruz.

    Gryph (5efbad)

  92. The interesting part is that is next to Britain’s version of langley

    Narciso (2626ce)

  93. “1. If the purpose of the 2008 law was to prevent trafficking, you can bet your bottom dollar that trafficking will increase with the law suspended/reversed. Thanks a lot, parents willing to break federal law with their kids (or worse, sending them unaccompanied)”

    Fyp

    harkin (e5c973)

  94. Closing the new frontier

    By Charles Krauthammer – February 12, 2010

    “We have an agreement until 2012 that Russia will be responsible for this,” says Anatoly Perminov, head of the Russian space agency, about ferrying astronauts from other countries into low-Earth orbit. “But after that? Excuse me, but the prices should be absolutely different then!”

    The Russians may be new at capitalism, but they know how it works. When you have a monopoly, you charge monopoly prices. Within months, Russia will have a monopoly on rides into space.

    By the end of this year, there will be no shuttle, no U.S. manned space program, no way for us to get into space. We’re not talking about Mars or the moon here. We’re talking about low-Earth orbit, which the United States has dominated for nearly half a century and from which it is now retiring with nary a whimper.

    Our absence from low-Earth orbit was meant to last a few years, the interval between the retirement of the fatally fragile space shuttle and its replacement with the Constellation program (Ares booster, Orion capsule, Altair lunar lander) to take astronauts more cheaply and safely back to space.

    But the Obama 2011 budget kills Constellation. Instead, we shall have nothing. For the first time since John Glenn flew in 1962, the United States will have no access of its own for humans into space — and no prospect of getting there in the foreseeable future.

    Of course, the administration presents the abdication as a great leap forward: Launching humans will be turned over to the private sector, while NASA’s efforts will be directed toward landing on Mars.

    This is nonsense. It would be swell for private companies to take over launching astronauts. But they cannot do it. It’s too expensive. It’s too experimental. And the safety standards for getting people up and down reliably are just unreachably high.

    Sure, decades from now there will be a robust private space-travel industry. But that is a long time. In the interim, space will be owned by Russia and then China. The president waxes seriously nationalist at the thought of China or India surpassing us in speculative “clean energy.” Yet he is quite prepared to gratuitously give up our spectacular lead in human space exploration.

    As for Mars, more nonsense. Mars is just too far away. And how do you get there without the stepping stones of Ares and Orion? If we can’t afford an Ares rocket to get us into orbit and to the moon, how long will it take to develop a revolutionary new propulsion system that will take us not a quarter-million miles but 35 million miles?

    To say nothing of the effects of long-term weightlessness, of long-term cosmic ray exposure, and of the intolerable risk to astronaut safety involved in any Mars trip — six months of contingencies vs. three days for a moon trip.

    Of course, the whole Mars project as substitute for the moon is simply a ruse. It’s like the classic bait-and-switch for high-tech military spending: Kill the doable in the name of some distant sophisticated alternative, which either never gets developed or is simply killed later in the name of yet another, even more sophisticated alternative of the further future. A classic example is the B-1 bomber, which was canceled in the 1970s in favor of the over-the-horizon B-2 stealth bomber, which was then killed in the 1990s after a production run of only 21 (instead of 132) in the name of post-Cold War obsolescence.

    Moreover, there is the question of seriousness. When John F. Kennedy pledged to go to the moon, he meant it. He had an intense personal commitment to the enterprise. He delivered speeches remembered to this day. He dedicated astronomical sums to make it happen.

    At the peak of the Apollo program, NASA was consuming almost 4 percent of the federal budget, which in terms of the 2011 budget is about $150 billion. Today the manned space program will die for want of $3 billion a year — 1/300th of last year’s stimulus package with its endless make-work projects that will leave not a trace on the national consciousness.

    As for President Obama’s commitment to beyond-lunar space: Has he given a single speech, devoted an iota of political capital to it?

    Obama’s NASA budget perfectly captures the difference in spirit between Kennedy’s liberalism and Obama’s. Kennedy’s was an expansive, bold, outward-looking summons. Obama’s is a constricted, inward-looking call to retreat.

    Fifty years ago, Kennedy opened the New Frontier. Obama has just shut it.

    # # # #

    Farewell, New Frontier

    By Charles Krauthammer – April 20, 2012

    As the space shuttle Discovery flew three times around Washington, a final salute before landing at Dulles airport for retirement in a museum, thousands on the ground gazed upward with marvel and pride. Yet what they were witnessing, for all its elegance, was a funeral march.

    The shuttle was being carried – its pallbearer, a 747 – because it cannot fly, nor will it ever again. It was being sent for interment. Above ground, to be sure. But just as surely embalmed as Lenin in Red Square.

    Is there a better symbol of willed American decline? The pity is not Discovery’s retirement – beautiful as it was, the shuttle proved too expensive and risky to operate – but that it died without a successor. The planned follow-on – the Constellation rocket-capsule program to take humans back into orbit and from there to the moon – was suddenly canceled in 2010. And with that, control of manned spaceflight was gratuitously ceded to Russia and China.

    Russia went for the cash, doubling its price for carrying an astronaut into orbit to $55.8 million. (Return included. Thank you, Boris.)

    China goes for the glory. Having already mastered launch and rendezvous, the Chinese plan to land on the moon by 2025. They understand well the value of symbols. And nothing could better symbolize China overtaking America than its taking our place on the moon, walking over footprints first laid down, then casually abandoned, by us.

    Who cares, you say? What is national greatness, scientific prestige or inspiring the young – legacies of NASA – when we are in economic distress? OK. But if we’re talking jobs and growth, science and technology, R&D and innovation – what President Obama insists are the keys to “an economy built to last” – why on earth cancel an incomparably sophisticated, uniquely American technological enterprise?

    We lament the decline of American manufacturing, yet we stop production of the most complex machine ever made by man – and cancel the successor meant to return us to orbit. The result?

    Abolition of thousands of the most highly advanced aerospace jobs anywhere – its workforce abruptly unemployed and drifting away from space flight, never to be reconstituted.

    Well, you say, we can’t afford all that in a time of massive deficits.

    There are always excuses for putting off strenuous national endeavors: deficits, joblessness, poverty, whatever. But they shall always be with us. We’ve had exactly five balanced budgets since Alan Shepard rode Freedom 7 in 1961. If we had put off space exploration until these earthbound social and economic conundrums were solved, our rocketry would be about where North Korea’s is today.

    Moreover, today’s deficits are not inevitable, nor even structural. They are partly the result of the 2008 financial panic and recession. Those are over now. The rest is the result of a massive three-year expansion of federal spending.

    But there is no reason the federal government has to keep spending 24 percent of GDP. The historical postwar average is just over 20 percent – and those budgets sustained a robust manned space program.

    NASA will tell you that it’s got a new program to go way beyond low-Earth orbit and, as per Obama’s instructions, land on an asteroid by the mid-2020s. Considering that Constellation did not even last five years between birth and cancellation, don’t hold your breath for the asteroid landing.

    Nor for the private sector to get us back into orbit, as Obama assumes it will. True, hauling MREs up and trash back down could be done by private vehicles. But manned flight is infinitely more complex and risky, requiring massive redundancy and inevitably larger expenditures. Can private entities really handle that? And within the next lost decade or two?

    Neil Armstrong, James Lovell and Gene Cernan are deeply skeptical. In a 2010 open letter, they called Obama’s cancellation of Constellation a “devastating” decision that “destines our nation to become one of second or even third rate stature.”

    Which is why museum visits to the embalmed Discovery will be sad indeed. America rarely retreats from a new frontier. Yet today we can’t even do what John Glenn did in 1962, let alone fly a circa-1980 shuttle.

    At least Discovery won’t suffer the fate of the Temeraire, the British warship tenderly rendered in Turner’s famous painting “The Fighting Temeraire tugged to her last Berth to be broken up, 1838.” Too beautiful for the scrapheap, Discovery will lie intact, a magnificent and melancholy rebuke to constricted horizons.
    _______

    Armstrong is gone. Cernan, Shepard and Glenn, too. Now Krauthammer has left us as well.

    Those of us who support a strong and vibrant manned space program know it is a bipartisan endeavor. It is an investment in ourselves and our future with an incalculable potential for rich returns. And yes, it is inspiring. It beckons to the best in us.

    Cronkite knew this. So did Krauthammer. His advocacy will be missed. It is honest writing.

    And true.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  95. BuDuh,

    Why did Sessions/the DOJ adopt the zero tolerance policy and then immediately separate families in which a parent was charged with illegal entry? Do you think it was because Sessions is a jerk and enjoys hurting these families?

    Some Democrats probably think that. Maybe some Republicans, too, given how Trump talks about getting even with people he thinks are bad for America. But I don’t think that is why this is happening. I think it is happening because this is how the law works.

    We don’t detain entire immigrant or citizen families because one family member is charged with a crime. And we only keep immigrant families together if they are immediately deported or they make a credible claim for asylum. Under Obama, every claim was deemed credible so immigrants were coached by immigration groups in how to claim asylum. I wonder if Trump plans to do that?

    DRJ (15874d)

  96. What’s been missing til now is leadership but now we have President Trump and everyone is more hopeful that lasting solutions are near at hand

    happyfeet (9e99a9)

  97. Sammy,

    Chain migration only lets certain family members in. Hispanics often have a more expansive view of ” close family” than the US immigration laws. But even if they are close family entitled to emigrate, it still takes time, money (for fees and attorneys) and a sponsor with adequate income to support his/her own family and the immigrant family. Melania and Donald Trump could satisfy the requirements for her family. Average families typically can’t, so their best hope to get family here is expanded legal immigration.

    DRJ (15874d)

  98. 91. If the purpose of the 2008 law was to prevent trafficking, you can bet your bottom dollar that trafficking will increase with the law suspended/reversed.

    That does not automatically follow. It’s not like laws are always effective. So, even if the stated purpose was to prevent trafficking, that doesn’t mean trafficking was actually prevented.

    Speaking in general here. Not saying that suspending or reversing this particular law is a good idea.

    Chuck Bartowski (bc1c71)

  99. And just like that, we find out the story of the sobbing child is pretty much fake.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5869829/Father-two-year-old-face-child-separation-crisis-speaks-out.html

    Patricia (3363ec)

  100. No, BuDuh, I do not feel better. I have explained since yesterday at The Jury and here why we cannot have zero tolerance and keep families together but apparently no one believes me, so I am through discussing it. Even if Congress can pass legislation (which looks doubtful), it won’t matter unless they change the criminal law rules that apply to illegal entry cases, and I doubt that will happen.

    DRJ (15874d) — 6/21/2018 @ 12:15 pm

    Cheer up, DRJ, I believe you. That’s why whenever some fool insists that we can have policies that are both “strong on enforcement” and “humane” I have to laugh and can only respond with sarcasm. Because the end game is obvious.

    1)The critics say it’s “inhumane” to separate children from their parents.

    2)It’s “inhumane” to detain children with their parents.

    Ergo:

    3)It’s really adult detention they’re against.

    Ergo:

    4) It’s really immigration law enforcement, having a border at all, that the critics are against.

    As if we haven’t broken the “code.” Code is in scare quotes because it was never much of a code. But take heart; Americans aren’t as stupid as the anti-American open borders critics think they are.

    https://twitter.com/Rasmussen_Poll/status/1009843394410176513?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Flegalinsurrection.com%2F2018%2F06%2Fsurvey-most-voters-blame-parents-of-separated-kids-not-the-federal-govt-for-current-border-crisis%2F

    The American people see what’s going on. According to the latest Rasmussen poll a majority of likely voters, 54%, blame the parents for creating this manufactured child separation “crisis” because they illegally entered the United States. Only 35% blame the Federal government for creating it. So it’s possible to square this circle. It’s possible to both be opposed to family separations and be in favor of zero tolerance enforcement. As you point out perhaps most voters think it’s possible to detain the children with the parents, but when they find out that it’s illegal to detain children with adults and they have to choose between catch-and-release or family separations + Zero Tolerance they’ll choose the latter because it’s the illegal alien parents who put themselves and their children in this position.

    We have a cabal of anti-American leftists working hand-in-glove with anti-American illegal alien advocates to bring in illegal aliens and rig the system so they can stay forever. And they think the best way to do that is to have the adult hide behind the child. And apparently most Americans aren’t buying the leftist charge that’s it’s “immoral” to prosecute an adult for illegally entering this country if that adult is a parent. It’s bizarre, how flagrant the anti-American left feels it can act. Normal Americans say it’s wrong for illegal aliens to think that a child is a get-out-of-jail-free card. And the leftists respond, “Oh, yes, that’s exactly what a child is!” Thereby self-immolating and demolishing the possibility of believing the left actually cares about the child.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  101. 99. DRJ (15874d) — 6/21/2018 @ 4:20 pm

    Chain migration only lets certain family members in. Hispanics often have a more expansive view of ” close family” than the US immigration laws.

    That’s where the “chain” comes in. It takes years, though.

    But even if they are close family entitled to emigrate, it still takes time, money (for fees and attorneys)

    It aso coists money to immigrate illegally, as things have gotten to the point that they cannot do it without a “coyote.” It costs generally $3,000 per person I once read.

    It might be better for that money to go to the U.S. government.

    The immigrant smugglers, I read once, and don’t know the degree to which this is true, also can shoot people who try it on their own. Also the Border Patrol, of course.

    I read that about two people drown each day crossing the Rio Grande.

    and a sponsor with adequate income to support his/her own family and the immigrant family. Melania and Donald Trump could satisfy the requirements for her family. Average families typically can’t, so their best hope to get family here is expanded legal immigration.

    No, nothing like that. I think the income requirements are not very high. What you may be talking about is qualifying for an investor visa.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  102. I really can’t believe that Texas Hispanics are that stupid. Some might support enforcement, but not because it will lead to greater legal immigration, or prevent a reduction.

    This sounds like more anti-immigration propaganda: Look: Even Hispanics support more zealous enforcement.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 6/21/2018 @ 1:58 pm

    How dare Texas Hispanics believe in following the law. They should only care about their own racial group, not the country they live in

    That what you mean by this bigotry Sammy?

    NJRob (4d9715)

  103. I now am with you, DRJ, to build the wall. I thought it was maybe unnecessary but now, no, better to funnel people through a few gates than this constant invasion which also allows in drugs.

    Patricia (3363ec)

  104. There are minimum income requirements for sponsors, Sammy:

    You also must meet certain income requirements (whether you are a sponsor, a joint sponsor, or a substitute sponsor). You must show that your household income is equal to or higher than 125% of the U.S. poverty level for your household size. (Your household size includes you, your dependents, any relatives living with you, and the immigrants you are sponsoring.)

    If you, the sponsor, are on active duty in the Armed Forces of the United States, and the immigrant you are sponsoring is your spouse or child, your income only needs to equal 100% of the U.S. poverty level for your household size.

    It doesn’t require Trump-level assets to sponsor someone (although it helps!) but many new immigrants are living near the poverty level already. Getting more income so they can sponsor more relatives is often a hurdle they can’t overcome.

    DRJ (15874d)

  105. @101. And just like that, we find out the story of the sobbing child is pretty much fake.

    Well, Patricia, I dunno about “th[at] story [being] pretty much fake”, but it’s an interesting, informative and helpful article that you link to, and I for one am much obliged.

    Q! (86710c)

  106. Plus the fees for the application and attorneys. Sometimes coming here illegally does look like the best devision, but IMO we don’t need people who make decisions that way. There is more to being a good citizen than knowing how to evaluate economic choices. Legal choices matter, too.

    DRJ (15874d)

  107. Thank you, Patricia! I appreciate you saying that.

    DRJ (15874d)

  108. @ Nate Ogden, who wrote (#20, in response to my #16):

    Belmar you want Trump to put an Eastern European as the face of the administration? The cries of Russian Collusion and handing over power to Russia would be endless. Never Trumpets would have a field day twisting that into conspiracy theories.

    It’s true that I cannot listen to the FLOTUS speak without hearing voices in my head shouting, “Moose and squirrel!” It’s also true that she probably ought not have worn a jacket en route to the visit which had printed on its back, “I DON’T REALLY CARE DO U?” Knowing, as she does, that the press fixates on her fashion choices, she needs to be best. And “best” cares, right? That was the whole point of the trip.

    Nevertheless: To the marginal voter who might or might not be driven by this controversy to turn out to vote for Democratic candidates in November, her appearance — and specifically, I mean the video and audio of her conversation with those detention center workers and their responses — generated much, much better optics than anything Trump does. Trump can say, and does say, that he cares about the welfare of children sent to or brought across the border illegally, but his credibility on that subject is poor, and the Dems are relying on that in orchestrating this wave of manufactured outrage. Mrs. Trump’s appearance today was calming oil on roiling waters, and got lots of play even in hyper-liberal media. My expectations for her were, to put it mildly, extremely limited, but she is exceeding them, so good for her.

    As for her eastern European background fueling collusion theories, whether among Never Trumpe[r]s or otherwise: That’s not a term I’ve used to describe myself (for although I would never vote for Trump, I do nevertheless support him on specific decisions he’s made with which I agree), and I actually am a decent trumpet player. But I haven’t seen or heard Bill Kristol, for example, claiming that the FLOTUS is a Putin plant. Red Sparrow, Mrs. Trump ain’t.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  109. 110… all true, and yet there are some frequent, misogynistic posters who inveigh against her, all but calling her a streetwalker or worse.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  110. She ain’t swarthy… she’s our FLOTUS.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  111. Is common sense immigration reform still code for amnesty?

    DRJ (15874d)

  112. Pertinent to note that Mrs Trump is from Slovenia, a country now part of the EU, and at the time of her birth a part of Tito’s Yugoslavia…Tito being the guy who didn’t always toe the Kremlin line.
    So she would be highly unlikely to be a Putin plant.

    kishnevi (e85727)

  113. If so, I give FLOTUS credit for good Marco Rubio-style optics and not-so-good Marco Rubio-style policies.

    DRJ (15874d)

  114. …How dare Texas Hispanics believe in following the law. They should only care about their own racial group, not the country they live in

    That what you mean by this bigotry Sammy?

    NJRob (4d9715) — 6/21/2018 @ 4:44 pm

    Not to mention the country that they love, NJRob. Since moving to Texas I’ve met Hispanic-Americans who belonged (I have no reason to doubt them but I’ve never checked, either) to old Tejano families. And if you want to anger them, call them Mexican-American. They were here in Texas before there ever was a Mexico, and they were never part of Mexico. They’re not in favor of illegal immigration across our southern border.

    Of course, they’re in the minority when it comes to Hispanics in Texas. Most are in fact Mexican-Americans. And they’re still not in favor of illegal immigration. It’s a complicated issue. Many of the illegals coming in from Mexico don’t even speak Spanish. They belong to indigenous tribes. And the Hispanics I know hate being lumped in with a bunch of people they can’t even talk to.
    But it’s just a leftist fact of life that the leftist high priests will assign their inferiors to designated groups, “YOU ARE ALL THE SAME,” and after that it’s treason to try to break away from your assigned group. Plus it’s these new arrivals peeing in their flowerbeds and throwing beer cans on their lawns.

    Would you like this? I wouldn’t like this. They don’t like having a bunch of people who have nothing in common with them except being “teh sacred Brown other” that they can’t even talk to trashing their neighborhoods. And they don’t like, any more than you or I or the Germans, having our leftist betters lecturing us on how much better off they are because diversity and their identity politics assignments so shut up.

    And then, tell me again how much Mexicans are supposed to have in common with Guatemalans or Peruvians?

    The bottom line is that I served with Hispanics who were second to none when it came to American patriotism. Maybe they were unusual, but I suppose the same could be said of every servicemember regardless of ethnicity. As you follow the immigration “crisis” just look and listen to the names of the Border Patrol agents involved. An out of proportion number of names will be Hispanic. It simply isn’t true that Hispanic = pro-illegal alien.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oUtJxE4sjs

    MSG Roy Benavidez speech 1991

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  115. In beltway speak, yes.

    Wallace and Schmitt were like Enfield in reyrospect

    http://judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/judici

    Narciso (9f0a41)

  116. 106 DRJ, immigrants not having money to sponsor relatives isn’t supported by the data.

    An average of 3.5 relatives. In past decades, each immigrant has typically sponsored an average of approximately 3.5 relatives, which includes spouses and children.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  117. The problem is you have persons like Alison the dsa paralegal at justice, at the lowest rung who not only doesn’t believe in the system, but wants to tear it down

    Narciso (9f0a41)

  118. It’s also true that she probably ought not have worn a jacket en route to the visit which had printed on its back, “I DON’T REALLY CARE DO U?” Knowing, as she does, that the press fixates on her fashion choices, she needs to be best. And “best” cares, right? That was the whole point of the trip.

    Beldar, given that Peter Fonda had venomously declared that Barron should be ripped out of her arms and thrown in cage with pedophiles, and the left applauded, I would say that jacket may have been her response. Which I find completely understandable. I suggest cutting her some slack.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  119. So it doesn’t matter how many laws are passed, they are determined to put a spanner in the works, that is the problem and they have assistance from rank and file attys like the ones who freed detainees from gitmo like the one who was captured in eastern Libya right around the time this kerflufflr wrrupted.

    Narciso (9f0a41)

  120. Yes CNN tracking her recuperation for 24 days, like mf 370 type obsession

    Narciso (9f0a41)

  121. @110 & 121 It’s hard to know what Melania had in mind in her choice of jacket. It was worn en route to the airport out, and apparently back in Washington, but not (so far as I can gather) in Texas itself.

    Perhaps she doesn’t care what Spanky thinks; perhaps she doesn’t care what the GOP thinks; perhaps she doesn’t care what the media think; perhaps perhaps perhaps. It’s all kind of enigmatic in a particularly East European way. Whether that’s a good thing or a bad thing, or not much of a thing at all . . . well, I certainly am not in a position to say. I can only say that it seems clear she meant to send a message, and I have no reason to doubt that she sent the one she wanted to. At the time, at least.

    Q! (86710c)

  122. They said her message was she doesn’t care about fake news.

    Considering the liberal media were in a lather about her laying low after her operation, to the point of speculating whether the President had assaulted her, I don’t blame her.

    All that said, they should have known the hounds would use it to say she doesn’t care about brown kids, and they have.

    harkin (e5c973)

  123. “I’ve met Hispanic-Americans who belonged (I have no reason to doubt them but I’ve never checked, either) to old Tejano families. And if you want to anger them, call them Mexican-American”

    Southern CA too. They are Americans.

    harkin (e5c973)

  124. She can work the laser pointer as well,

    narciso (9f0a41)

  125. @125 They said her message was she doesn’t care about fake news. Who’s “they”, white man? You mean Spanky his own self? Well, natch, that’s what he’d likely say . . . But, is there a more reliable source out there? (’cause the Prez has got this problem, you know, with both talking about things he actually knows anything about, and with the truth and all . . .)

    Q! (86710c)

  126. Some folks still think this tool is superior to Trump:

    “The explosive exchange was contained in notes taken by IRS employees at an April 30, 2013, meeting between Kerner, Lerner, and other high-ranking IRS officials. Just ten days following the meeting, former IRS director of exempt organizations Lois Lerner admitted that the IRS had a policy of improperly and deliberately delaying applications for tax-exempt status from conservative non-profit groups.

    Lerner and other IRS officials met with select top staffers from the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee in a “marathon” meeting to discuss concerns raised by both Sen. Carl Levin (D-MI) and Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) that the IRS was not reining in political advocacy groups in response to the Supreme Court’s Citizens United decision. Senator McCain had been the chief sponsor of the McCain-Feingold Act and called the Citizens United decision, which overturned portions of the Act, one of the “worst decisions I have ever seen.”

    In the full notes of an April 30 meeting, McCain’s high-ranking staffer Kerner recommends harassing non-profit groups until they are unable to continue operating. Kerner tells Lerner, Steve Miller, then chief of staff to IRS commissioner, Nikole Flax, and other IRS officials, “Maybe the solution is to audit so many that it is financially ruinous.” In response, Lerner responded that “it is her job to oversee it all.”

    https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/judicial-watch-obtains-irs-documents-revealing-mccains-subcommittee-staff-director-urged-irs-to-engage-in-financially-ruinous-targeting/?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=press%20release

    Remember this the next time you hear anyone laughing about the Deep State.

    harkin (e5c973)

  127. Damn straight they are, Harkin @6/21/2018 @ 6:50 pm. I hope you watch MSGT Benavidez’s speech.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  128. “Who’s “they”, white man?

    Why bring race into it? (Btw I’m only half white so do I get a half-pass?)

    Look at it this way. Listen to the side that applauded her daughter being called a ‘feckless c**t’ and her husband the target of Tony Award profanity, or don’t.

    harkin (e5c973)

  129. Imagine how crazy it would have gotten if she’d worn a tan suit.

    Davethulhu (7e7722)

  130. Or a sombrero.

    harkin (e5c973)

  131. UPDATE: The AP has since added a line to the story stating: “The incidents described in the lawsuit occurred from 2015 to 2018, during both the Obama and Trump administrations.” This was no doubt added after a conservative outcry over the way the story made it sound like a Trump administration issue. This is not how the story read this morning and I can prove it. Fortunately, the original version was still open in a tab on my computer when I got home today. You can read the text of the entire original version of the story here, where I cut and pasted it into a page. Here is what the relevant passage looked like this morning:

    AP Story Original

    And here is what it looks like now. Note the added language in the third paragraph, beginning with the words “In court filings”:

    AP Story Revised

    If you thought conservatives had simply overlooked that language, you were wrong. We hadn’t.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  132. Sure hoping P makes another post about Krauthammer, there’s some real nice tributes out there to link to.

    harkin (e5c973)

  133. That’s for Tillman.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  134. 134 – once again the lie made it half way round the world while the truth was still pulling on its pants.

    After seeing the staged Brown Beret Dallas kiddie cage, I thought that was the limit but they keep digging down.

    http://wgntv.com/2018/06/18/the-truth-behind-this-photo-of-an-immigrant-child-crying-inside-a-cage/

    harkin (e5c973)

  135. 112. ‘She ain’t swarthy… she’s our FLOTUS.’

    =Haiku= Gesundheit!

    ‘I really
    don’t care
    do you?’

    Yes, Melania. Do me.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  136. Or going with Stephen Miller to a Mexican restaurant.

    kishnevi (4e6bac)

  137. Where is the evidence from the lawsuit, that any of this happened in the Trump era?

    Narciso (0078db)

  138. Nate, thanks for that information. I thought it was clear I was talking with Sammy about sponsoring extended family members but your comment gives me a chance to clarify that. It’s one thing to have the resources to sponsor a wife and children. It’s another to have the resources to sponsor parents, grandparents, sisters, brothers, aunts, uncles, and cousins.

    DRJ (15874d)

  139. Krauthammer related
    https://mobile.twitter.com/pnashjenkins/status/1009932547651002368
    Me at @140 was responding to 132/133.

    kishnevi (4e6bac)

  140. “That’s for Tillman”

    JVW was on the case at 63.

    harkin (e5c973)

  141. @141 Where is the evidence from the lawsuit, that any of this happened in the Trump era?

    To the extent that that’s important to you, read the article. Assuming it accurately reports the complaint (and its supporting declarations), there are several relevant dates in there (as I recall) which fall in the #maga era.

    Q! (86710c)

  142. We’ve had has been actors urging violence on a 12 year old, ditzy paralegals heckling curses at cabinet member, feral graphic design prof doxxing ice agents, who’s perspective is skweed.

    Narciso (0078db)

  143. JVW was on the case at 63.

    I saw. Thanks, JVW.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  144. Now NBA writers are going after Kevin McHale for attending a Trump rally.

    Nathaniel Friedman
    @freedarko
    Kevin McHale is extremely stupid for attending a public Trump event. That, as much as his politics, is why he should never work in the NBA again

    https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/kevin-mchale-fire-attending-donald-trump-rally/

    The left side of this country goes more insane by the hour.

    harkin (e5c973)

  145. Something doesn’t feel right:

    https://founderscode.com/kamala-nancy-chuck-

    Narciso (0078db)

  146. Hmmmmm…the crying kid portrayed on the cover of Time magazine looking up at the brooding President…….

    …..was…never….actually….separated…from….her…parents.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/beyondreasdoubt/status/1009977700805734402/photo/1

    harkin (e5c973)

  147. @125. Wise up: that meassage was strictly for Trump.

    Which is why he jump to diverted the stinging shot to the balls to media.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  148. @151. The TIME cover is quite literally ‘fake news.’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  149. I was making the tie between the two stories, both connected by the same Soros recipients

    Narciso (0078db)

  150. Do a search and take a look at the New Yorker cover w/t ‘migrant kids’ hiding in the folds of Lady Liberty’s robes — and see if you can figure out what’s is so blatantly wrong with it.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  151. Stephen Miller would deserve it, dropped a goid friend at 13, simply because he was Latino.

    urbanleftbehind (868dc7)

  152. More civility:

    https://t.co/DFZyTOPo5X

    Narciso (0078db)

  153. So Canada wants to replace Russia as the “great white defendant” of adversarial powers?

    urbanleftbehind (868dc7)

  154. That’s for Tillman.

    Thanks for the update, Pat.

    Tillman (d34303)

  155. The Trump Administration has filed a motion asking the federal court to allow the government to detain children when their parents are charged with crimes:

    The Department of Justice on Thursday asked a federal district court to modify a decades-old court settlement that prohibits the federal government from keeping children in immigration detention centers for more than 20 days, following President Trump’s decision to end the practice of separating migrant children from their parents who cross the U.S. border illegally.

    The agreement, which is known as the Flores settlement, was drafted in 1997.

    The request comes a day after Trump caved under intense bipartisan pressure and signed an executive order aimed at ending family separations at the U.S.-Mexico border.
    Gene Hamilton, a senior Justice Department official, said that under the executive order, the government would only be able to detain families together for “up to 20 days” due to the settlement.

    The executive order directs the Justice Department to expedite immigration cases involving families.

    Trump on Wednesday told Attorney General Jeff Sessions to request a change to the settlement, which allows the government “to detain alien families together” for the duration of their legal proceedings for illegal entry, asylum or deportation.

    DRJ (15874d)

  156. Imagine needing another sheet, Col. !!!

    mg (9e54f8)

  157. ot to mention the country that they love, NJRob. Since moving to Texas I’ve met Hispanic-Americans who belonged (I have no reason to doubt them but I’ve never checked, either) to old Tejano families. And if you want to anger them, call them Mexican-American. They were here in Texas before there ever was a Mexico, and they were never part of Mexico. They’re not in favor of illegal immigration across our southern border.

    Of course, they’re in the minority when it comes to Hispanics in Texas. Most are in fact Mexican-Americans. And they’re still not in favor of illegal immigration. It’s a complicated issue. Many of the illegals coming in from Mexico don’t even speak Spanish. They belong to indigenous tribes. And the Hispanics I know hate being lumped in with a bunch of people they can’t even talk to.
    But it’s just a leftist fact of life that the leftist high priests will assign their inferiors to designated groups, “YOU ARE ALL THE SAME,” and after that it’s treason to try to break away from your assigned group. Plus it’s these new arrivals peeing in their flowerbeds and throwing beer cans on their lawns.

    Would you like this? I wouldn’t like this. They don’t like having a bunch of people who have nothing in common with them except being “teh sacred Brown other” that they can’t even talk to trashing their neighborhoods. And they don’t like, any more than you or I or the Germans, having our leftist betters lecturing us on how much better off they are because diversity and their identity politics assignments so shut up.

    And then, tell me again how much Mexicans are supposed to have in common with Guatemalans or Peruvians?

    The bottom line is that I served with Hispanics who were second to none when it came to American patriotism. Maybe they were unusual, but I suppose the same could be said of every servicemember regardless of ethnicity. As you follow the immigration “crisis” just look and listen to the names of the Border Patrol agents involved. An out of proportion number of names will be Hispanic. It simply isn’t true that Hispanic = pro-illegal alien.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oUtJxE4sjs

    MSG Roy Benavidez speech 1991

    Steve57 (0b1dac) — 6/21/2018 @ 6:01 pm

    I have direct family that feel the same. My nephew, who is serving, is a humble, generous young man, but would be tempted to throw down with someone who dared to call him a Mexican-American. He’s an American, no hyphen would ever exist that claims he has a shared loyalty. Great young man.

    NJRob (b00189)

  158. nNJRob, I hope my message was received and understood. Your nephew sound like an outstanding young man.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  159. Artifacts. I leave artifacts;

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  160. “Men will never be free until the last democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last communist.” Hans-Hermann Hoppe

    Pinandpuller (2f9f04)

  161. Stephen Miller would deserve it, dropped a goid friend at 13, simply because he was Latino.

    urbanleftbehind (868dc7) — 6/21/2018 @ 8:06 pm

    For one second I thought you dropped an “r”.

    Womp Womp

    Pinandpuller (2f9f04)

  162. 142 DRJ data doesn’t support that either.

    “Family Fourth Preference (F4): Brothers and sisters of U.S. citizens, and their spouses and minor children, provided the U.S. citizens are at least 21 years of age. (65,000)”

    2.5 million have officially applied for this level and are waiting, more than the first three levels combined.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  163. Enough of the Democrat-Leftist-Democrat Operatives in Media manufactured border crisis of migrant babies being torn from the arms of their loving parents by Adolph Trump and tossed into a concentration camp stuff! Enough of the manufactured tears and hand-wringing.

    Colonel Haiku (167903)

  164. I’m sure there are legal impediments to the following thought but since we ultimately want a return to orderly immigration along the border maybe the fastest way to disincentivize would be to transport every unlawful crosser to the nearest port of entry for entry and put a substantial bounty on the heads of the coyotes and cartels doing the human smuggling, perhaps even allowing lawful entry for information leading to the conviction of the smugglers who trafficked you across the border. The legal and logistical barriers probably argue against this but something like this makes more sense to me than the current political standoff.

    crazy (5c5b07)

  165. @167 Encouraging murder now are we, P&P? How sweet.

    Tillman (d34303)

  166. The NYT has a piece on the Obama-appointed judge who will rule on Sessions’ request. My guess is that not only will she tell Sessions to pound sand, she’ll order the release of all minors and at least one of their parentals.

    Paul Montagu (54c2a3)

  167. She doesn’t know the law either so why bother writing new ones

    http://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justin-taylor/what-does-bible-teach-on-immigration/

    Narciso (d68160)

  168. That NYT crap is a piece alright.

    Colonel Haiku (167903)


  169. 172.@167 Encouraging murder now are we, P&P? How sweet.
    Tillman (


    That’s not murder you moron, it’s self defense. You can shove you “virtue signaling” where you keep you weaponized compassion. Pinko.

    Rev.Hoagie (c5d6cf)

  170. Another 9th circus drone, she had been denied in 2000, if the matters,occur in Texas, which is 5th circuit why are the judge shopping rhetorical.

    Narciso (d68160)

  171. nNJRob, I hope my message was received and understood. Your nephew sound like an outstanding young man.

    Steve57 (0b1dac) — 6/21/2018 @ 11:36 pm

    I do and thank you.

    NJRob (b00189)


  172. 170.Enough of the Democrat-Leftist-Democrat Operatives in Media manufactured border crisis of migrant babies being torn from the arms of their loving parents by Adolph Trump and tossed into a concentration camp stuff! Enough of the manufactured tears and hand-wringing.
    Colonel Haiku

    Excerpts of an article by

    Bruce Thornton @ Frontpage Mag

    Weaponized compassion by the left: Conspicuous Compassion

    Which is to say, conspicuous compassion is about political power, since this neurosis empowers the foreign policy favored by globalists and leftists alike –– foreign aid and “development” even if they’re not in our national interest and don’t help to protect our security. Domestically, for decades, including during George W. Bush’s bout of “compassionate conservatism,” the progressives have slandered conservatives as heartless and ruthless racists, bigots, and xenophobes who fear the dark-skinned “other” and seek to “roll back the clock” to the time when their “white male hetero-normative privilege” was unchallenged.

    Moreover, we do not have a moral obligation to be the world’s refuge and take in everybody if doing so harms our security and interests. And since we can’t take in every refugee whether political or economic, any decision to admit people will necessarily be political, which again means that our country’s interests are the paramount criterion. In the end, we are not obligated to correct the misery and suffering of nations who bear the responsibility for their own people’s problems. We can’t let the whole world use us as Mexico does, as a safety valve for lessening their citizens’ discontent caused by their country’s political and economic corruption and dysfunctions; and as a source of foreign currency––$26 billion in just nine months last year–– in the form of remittances sent home by their citizens.

    Finally, it is the fundamental right of every sovereign nation to protect its borders and to decide by what criteria they will admit immigrants. Whatever we decide is a political issue to be settled by the people through their representatives in Congress. Calls for amnesty or de facto open borders––which is what the recent outcry over separating illegal aliens from their children is really about––should be adjudicated by political debate on the facts, consequences, and costs, not by emotional appeals, sentimental rhetoric, and conspicuous compassion.

    Unfortunately, the hypocritical telescopic philanthropy of the Dems, few of whom live with the wages of our broken immigration system, has been seconded by too many Republicans intimidated by their rhetoric. The Bush clan, which spent Obama’s two terms in silence as The One “fundamentally transformed” America, have squandered much of the good will they once enjoyed by piling on Donald Trump with ridiculous comparisons to the internment of Japanese citizens during the World War II, and with bathetic exaggerations of the conditions in which the children are kept. So too a lot of Republicans who should know better, but with an eye on the November midterms, are scrambling to defuse the bad publicity caused by the dishonest media coverage, rather than championing facts and principles and refuting the Dems’ duplicitous narrative.

    But ceding the argument to the Dems, rather than putting their feet to the fire by forcing them to vote in Congress, is handing them a win. That’s why Trump’s executive order on Wednesday ending the practice instead of forcing Congress to do its job, is disappointing. And even if that’s what polls tell us the people want, laws or policy based on specious emotion and lurid optics, rather than on Constitutional principles and national interest, usually turn out to be disastrous. Our national interests are more important than people’s need to display their conspicuous compassion.

    Rev.Hoagie (c5d6cf)

  173. All true, Hoagie. They’ll hold up the Bible to cherry-pick in an attempt to bolster their argument… a document that the majority of these compassion pimps would rather see burned in piles if they had their druthers.

    It’s nice to see a Republican president tell it like it is re: leftist intentions. What a sea-change that is.

    Colonel Haiku (167903)

  174. As i was pointing out, this suit was filed in October, yet it took 10 month for governor Skippy to look into the charges

    Narciso (d68160)

  175. I think it’s a fair bet they are lying to us all the time.

    https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2018/0

    Narciso (d68160)

  176. And when they aren’t they are frontloading the results

    http://donsurber.blogspot.com/2018/06/u

    Narciso (d68160)

  177. 2.5 million have officially applied for this level and are waiting, more than the first three levels combined.

    Nate Ogden (223c65) — 6/22/2018 @ 6:02 am

    You may be right, but what that tells me is there is a desire to bring extended family members to America. It doesn’t tell me they are successful.

    The wait periods are much longer for extended family than for immediate family. (The approval time can be as long as 20 years in some cases, although I think that is rare and involves applicants from the Phillipines.) Applicants can be denied for several reasons including criminal or health problems. My perception is that there are also families, typically Hispanic, who want to sponsor extended family members but don’t have the family income to meet the requirements. Sometimes they can use joint sponsors.

    This website lists failure to meet economic grounds as one of the major reasons for green card denials, usually “in the context of family-based immigrant petitions.” That is my perception, too. It’s hard to provide proof you can support the equivalent of two families — which is typically what bringing in extended family members involves — unless you have significant income.

    DRJ (15874d)

  178. As pointed out in the previous link, it is very hard to establish family ties to those detained, in the event they need to be reunited

    Narciso (d68160)

  179. The denial rates for family-based green cards is much higher for places like Harlingen, Texas, and El Paso, Texas, than for Houston, Dallas, and San Antonio. That may not mean anything. It’s a small sample for just one quarter of reporting. In addition, maybe applicants get more legal help in the bigger cities. But they could also have bigger incomes.

    DRJ (15874d)

  180. It’s probable the officials there are more wise to these schemes, than more metropolitan folk farther in land,

    Narciso (d68160)

  181. nobody even cares about these stupid illegal urchins (summer bummer womp womp)

    it was all over the cnn at the airport this morning but nobody was watching (just me)

    so this makes you wonder

    why’s harvardtrash blobfish ted cruz in such a tizzy?

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  182. Trump Moves to Obama’s Position on Family Detention, Democrats Outraged

    “So, there you have it. Obama didn’t just want the Flores consent decree to apply to families with children. The Obama administration also used detention as a deterrent.

    And this wasn’t ancient history. This wasn’t Obama’s first term — you know, when he was the kind of insufferable bigot who believed marriage was the union of a man and woman. No, this was the Obama administration’s position in 2015 and 2016.”

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/06/donald-trump-family-separation-executive-order-obama-policy/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

    harkin (e5c973)

  183. Happyfeet,

    can you lay off the trolling persona once in a while and just talk like a real human being. Are you still capable of that?

    NJRob (b00189)

  184. The level of nasty and horrific vitriol put out en masse last week by the leftist morons like Fonda and Bee et al, and repeated ad nausea by their comrades in the media has brought us closer to the Glorious Day of Next Tuesday. Trying to talk to leftists is now impossible since their actions are motivated by pure emotion and hate without any reason.

    Rev.Hoagie (c5d6cf)

  185. They’ll hold up the Bible to cherry-pick in an attempt to bolster their argument… a document that the majority of these compassion pimps would rather see burned in piles if they had their druthers.

    https://apnews.com/0bcc5d5d077247769da065864d215d1b

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  186. @189

    You make a strong argument. Trump should definitely be more like Obama.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  187. 193… he was pointing out that this leftwing meltdown, garment-rending, gnashing of rodent teeth, tearful wailing was reserved for the current time… the time that followed the 0bama Years of Malaise.

    Colonel Haiku (167903)

  188. Young squid doesn’t get, he may never get it.

    Narciso (3918c0)

  189. Oh, he gets it, he just puts his demented spin on everything, narciso…

    Colonel Haiku (167903)

  190. @189 Does it really surprise anyone that Obama would have believed or intended that detention serve as a deterrent? Or that there were those who objected (or who now might object) to such policy (or to the sequelae of such a policy)?

    It’s heartening to see that there are Republican Senators who propose a targeted legislative fix to this cock-up (see referenced article, above), though to my eyes the proposal seems a little “thin on the ground” in several respects. (Perhaps that is due — in part — to my general ignorance of any complementary principles of existing applicable law.) And as to whether such a proposal (or an appropriately enhanced/amended proposal) has any chance of passage in the Senate (much less in the House!) I am wholly incompetent to speculate.

    Q! (86710c)

  191. i’m not even trolling I’m being 100% frank with you

    this is a ginned-up and intensely silly fake news issue all of this sturm and drang about the urchins

    and ted cruz is buying into it but you know who’s not buying into it?

    me, your happy pikachu friend

    it’s just empty calories unlike the magnificently flavorful plant-based offerings of Mr. Matthew Kenney

    he’s all over LA where i left and he was never on my radar and there’s none here in Chicago

    but i got to go to one of his places in NY this week

    i’m a super-fan now! and you know what if he comes here I’m a never need to go to Little Beet Table ever again (a joyless but very tasty place in itself with a much-the-same philosophy: fun inventive and flavorful plant-based dishes as opposed to strictly vegan or vegetarian)

    matthew kenney why do you hate chicago

    hello? feelings

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  192. 189.

    This is how Representative Luis Guttierrez (D-ILLINOIS) distinghuished today between Obama and Trump:

    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/week-transcript-24-18-tom-bossert-sen-jeff/story?id=56118783

    So stop — as long as they continue to criminalize immigrants and Latinos, which has been the cornerstone of — of — of it’s political strategy, we’re not going to resolve this issue, but no, we said no to the Barack Obama administration, but you want to know something?

    Barack Obama had a soul. Barack Obama had a center. You could speak to that — to — to his conscience and you could get him to change his policy.

    But trump, presumabably, has no soul.

    The thing is, Obama could, and wanted to, fake it.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)


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