Patterico's Pontifications

6/19/2018

The Recasting of Prosecution of Illegal Border Crossers as an Attack on Children

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:27 am



Everywhere you look, people are talking about how Donald Trump is putting children in cages, and separating children from their families.

It’s accompanied by what is certainly sad audio of children crying because they have been separated from their parents.

It would be easy to get the impression that the Trump administration recently came to the decision to start arbitrarily separating families for cruel sport. A typical headline can be found in the New York Times: How Trump Came to Enforce a Practice of Separating Migrant Families. And yet that very article admits:

Technically, there is no Trump administration policy stating that illegal border crossers must be separated from their children. But the “zero tolerance policy” results in unlawful immigrants being taken into federal criminal custody, at which point their children are considered unaccompanied alien minors and taken away.

The lefties at PolitiFact elaborate:

Attorney General Jeff Sessions in April announced a “zero-tolerance” policy, meaning every person caught crossing the border illegally would be referred for federal prosecution.

A good number of these people are adult migrants traveling with children. By law, when adults are detained and criminally prosecuted, their children cannot be housed with them in jail. Instead, kids are placed in a Department of Health and Human Services shelter until they can be released to a legal guardian.

Past Presidents gave illegals a pass on prosecution if they brought their kids with them. Trump isn’t. That’s the difference.

Now: whether we have devoted sufficient resources to be able to actually enforce such a zero-tolerance policy is a separate question. But the media is simply taking the necessary consequence of a policy of prosecuting lawbreakers, and acting as though it is the entire point. It’s not. Prosecuting lawbreakers is the point.

Ultimately, someone who is not a citizen can keep their family together through a simple expedient: do not enter the United States of America illegally. If you want to enter, follow the laws and get in line with everyone else.

[Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.]

307 Responses to “The Recasting of Prosecution of Illegal Border Crossers as an Attack on Children”

  1. It’s a sad situation. But families are often hurt (and separated) when someone breaks the law.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  2. The MSM pieces and politicals/celeb quotations are all very similar and often identical.

    Where have I seen that before?

    jim2 (e0ac80)

  3. What you write is quite true, Patterico.

    But the Left needs to reinforce narrative and stir up voters prior to the midterms.

    It’s not about kids. It is about power.

    Simon Jester (99147b)

  4. “Over 20,000 children a year are put into foster care because their American parents are taken to jail, 10 times the number of those separated when illegal immigrant parents try to sneak into the U.S. but are caught, according to a commissioner on the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights.

    However, unlike the congressional outcry over President Trump’s zero-tolerance policy targeting illegal immigration, there has been no mass protest of or investigation into the separation of children from those in jail.“

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/no-protest-over-20-000-u-s-kids-separated-from-parents-in-jail

    Selective outrage for political purposes, imagine that.

    harkin (e5c973)

  5. It’s a completely orchestrated Democrat-Left-Media Operative complex manufactured border crisis, with assistance provided by the Bush Family and eRepublicans. Funny how this wasn’t much talked about during Obama’s terms.

    And many are the same people who support third term post-viability abortion for purposes of sex selection and who preach to/rail at us about their love for children.

    Colonel Haiku (c7ccf8)

  6. I agree with your post and first comment.

    When our children were young, they needed long-term medications that we could not legally buy without a prescription. We consulted dozens of doctors who would write the prescriptions for brief periods but not for long-term use. Some doctors admitted they would not write long-term prescriptions because the insurance companies objected, and not for medical reasons. This meant our children were very, very sick more often than they needed to be.

    It was heart-breaking to see our children suffer and to know that there was something that could be done. We live in Texas so we considered buying the medications in Mexico, where they are available without a prescription, but it is illegal under U.S. law to do that … so we didn’t. Instead, we consulted more and more doctors over an additional 8 year period until we found doctors at the NIH who understood our children’s illness and prescribed the long-term medications. In addition, they offered research help that could someday provide a cure.

    We would never have had this happen if we had decided to break the law instead of keep trying. That doesn’t mean things will always work out if you keep trying. However, it did work out for us and it protected our family from the possibility of having a parent imprisoned for breaking the law and thus jeopardizing all our lives for a long, long time.

    DRJ (46c88f)

  7. President Trump upholds the rule of law he’s a magnificent and just president.

    I wish all the presidents could be like him.

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  8. Nielsen maintained that her agency was merely enforcing existing law and said it was up to Congress to change the policy. “It is the beginning of the unraveling of democracy when the body who makes the laws, instead of changing them, tells the enforcement body not to enforce the law,” she said.

    But many lawmakers disagreed with that assessment.

    “The White House can fix it if they want to,” said Sen. Orrin G. Hatch (R-Utah). “I don’t think there’s any question about that.”

    Nielsen also said the administration is not using its “zero tolerance” policy to pressure Congress to act on Trump’s broader immigration agenda or to deter migrants from coming to the country, contradicting comments from other administration officials, including Attorney General Jeff Sessions, White House Chief of Staff John F. Kelly and senior adviser Stephen Miller.

    wapo

    It’s pretty obvious, guys. Spanky wants to play hardball, so he’s playing hardball. Hurting kids in the process, but . . . well, hardball’s hardball. He could change the policy back tomorrow (like he had it changed a month or three back), and I suspect could fairly easily and quickly put in a policy which was a good bit shy of “catch and release”, but less outrageous than than what’s on offer now . . . But, especially with all his and his lieutenants’ bald-faced lying about what’s what and who’s to blame . . . that looks especially unlikely to happen. I expect that most reasonable people can see what’s happening, and if enough of them don’t care for the stench, well maybe, come November, this will prove to have been a wrong move for the Spankster.

    Q! (86710c)

  9. One, the illegals have no right to be here. Two, the Trump administration has broad prosecutorial discretion and lots of Article II power to deal with the issue. The Trump can adjust the policy with a phone call. Three, Trump and his people are churning out whoppers like a Burger King. Four, the spin from some Trump defenders is ridiculous. Five, I sympathize with those kids who are in this situation through no fault of their own, which is why most folks outside Trump’s orbit are appalled. If Trump persists with this policy, my guess is that the GOP will get thrashed at the midterms. Six, the illegals have no right to be here.

    Paul Montagu (54c2a3)

  10. The Media Are Lying About Trump Separating Illegal Immigrant Families. Here’s The Truth. – Ben Shapiro

    “The big mistake made by the Trump administration here came courtesy of Stephen Miller and John Kelly, both of whom reportedly stated that the administration was separating kids from parents as a sort of deterrent. That’s idiotic. The deterrent is arrest and deportation, not separating children from parents. That’s why the House is attempting to pass some sort of fix here to keep kids with their parents.

    But with that said, the media coverage of this issue has been patently irresponsible. Trump isn’t forcing children away from parents. He’s enforcing the law on the books. The legislature can fix that law at any time. The facilities he’s using are the same facilities Obama used. Pretending that this is Japanese internment (as Laura Bush suggested) or the Holocaust (as General Michael Hayden suggested) is ridiculous. This policy ought to be fixed. But lying about it isn’t designed to fix it. It’s designed to prevent a fix by allowing Democrats to play political football with children, believing they’re winning a victory by holding Trump’s feet to the fire with pictures of crying children.”

    https://www.dailywire.com/news/31980/media-are-lying-about-trump-separating-illegal-ben-shapiro

    harkin (e5c973)

  11. And this is an excellent post.

    Colonel Haiku (c7ccf8)

  12. I don’t understand, DRJ. As you know I’m awaiting a bilateral lung transplant and have been on the list now for 19 months. I’ve been taking several expensive medications for the last three years with no problems. My doctor writes each prescription for 3 months then the pharmacist calls and renews it when the 3 months is over. After my transplant, if I live, I will be on anti-rejection and maintenance drugs for the rest of my life. Also quite expensive and they too will be renewed accordingly. What gives with your insurance company?

    Rev.Hoagie (c5d6cf)

  13. More from Shapiro on the media lies:

    “1. Trump Created Separation Of Children From Illegal Immigrant Parents. This is plainly false. In 1997, the federal government made an agreement in a case called Flores not to keep unaccompanied illegal immigrant children in custody beyond 20 days. The settlement said nothing about accompanied illegal immigrant children – children who crossed the border with their parents. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals then ruled that accompanied children also could not be held in custody under the terms of the settlement. This meant that the government either had to release whole families, or that the government had to separate parents from children.

    2. Immigrants Seeking Asylum Are Being Punished For Seeking Asylum. This is plainly untrue as well. Immigrants who come to points of entry to seek asylum aren’t actually illegally in the country – they’re not arrested. They’re processed through ICE, and their children stay with them. If, however, illegal immigrants cross the border illegally, the Trump administration now treats them as criminals. If they choose deportation, they aren’t separated from their kids; if they choose to apply for asylum, they stay in the country longer than 20 days, and their kids have to be removed by operation of law.

    harkin (e5c973)

  14. The people responsible for separating children from their parents are the parents who’ve attempted to illegally enter the country and their countries of origin that are, for the most part, encouraging the illegal immigration.

    Get the word out. Try to enter the country with children in tow by breaking our laws and there will be consequences.

    Colonel Haiku (c7ccf8)

  15. And build a “wall” of some sort.

    Colonel Haiku (c7ccf8)

  16. And prosecute those who employ people that should not be in America.

    Colonel Haiku (c7ccf8)

  17. This crisis of conscience is a genuine existential moment for the USA, and generally as Pat Buchanan warns, for the West.

    At some point, we as humans have to accept the limitations of this world or we will die trying to live an altered and fantasy reality. All the King’s horses and men can NOT make it right in the world. The USA proves every year she can be the bread basket of the world. She can never be the shelter from the world. I wish we could be. I truly do.

    Unless and until we accept this (the world as it is), we are fated to a ruinous future.

    I’ll know we are headed for a genuine solution in this instance when the parents who sent their children here are finally villainized as being utterly irresponsible and sadly, the true abusers. I’ll not hold my breath in hopes this awarenes predominates.

    Ed from SFV (2b4ea8)

  18. Rich Lowry’s article a couple days ago laid out the “game” that is taught to migrants on their way to the US.

    1. Take your children.
    2. Present yourself and your family at the border.
    3. Apply for asylum based on whatever — usually economic hardship, which is a loser but that way you don’t have to lie.
    4. Obama Admin policy was to not separate parents and children. Since children weren’t detained while the asylum petition was pending, the entire family was released from custody while the asylum petition was pending.
    5. Slip away in to the countryside to join friends or family wherever they are.
    6. Ignore the asylum petition.

    That’s it – technically they were not in the country “illegally” as long as the asylum petition had not yet been denied.

    All Sessions did was say “we are not going to release adults while asylum petitions are being processed.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  19. If a parent decides not to push for admission, can’t that parent immediately take their child and return home?

    AZ Bob (9a6ada)

  20. I think the reporting is more than irresponsible; I think it’s pure propaganda to be used for political pressure. I actually think they’re winning but the midterms will tell

    Patricia (4ca2b0)

  21. Either you think the policy of separating children from their parents (even in the case of asylum seekers) for sometimes months at a time is good or you do not. If you do, well, you are fine with this.

    If not, you look at this not happening in the numbers it is a year ago,and you look at the numbers it is happening today and ask “What law has changed?” The answer is… none. So to call the difference a Trump policy on how to enforce the law seems accurate to me.

    Nathan (5efffe)

  22. Here’s a context for the idiocy of journalists playing audio of crying children.

    Go to any daycare center for 2-3 year olds on any given morning, and listen to children cry when their parents drop them off and head for the door.

    Once kids are adjusted — about 30 minutes max — they are fine.

    Teachers tell you — “just go, they’ll be fine, and the faster you leave the faster the kid gets over it”. The parents that linger and give them hugs and tell them to not cry and not be sad, make the problem worse.

    Same principle here.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  23. Babs Booosh should get in line. What a disgraceful hag.

    mg (9e54f8)

  24. But families are often hurt (and separated) when someone breaks the law.

    Often that happens when no one breaks any laws. There are countless stories of CPS seizing children from parents based on lies and innuendo.

    Chuck Bartowski (bc1c71)

  25. @21 Once kids are adjusted — about 30 minutes max — they are fine. *** Same principle here.

    Too too too funny! “Same principle here” As the parents leave the kids, plead guilty to the misdemeanor offense, and are deported back to Guatemala! (Kids remaining, safe and “sound”.) The “same” principle, but kinda different, ya know? A little?

    Q! (86710c)

  26. Oops. Shoulda been @22. Apologies.

    Q! (86710c)

  27. The medicines are expensive and our children have a rare disease so there was no protocol for it then, Hoagie. But the main problem was that most of the doctors weren’t willing to try to convince the insurance companies that the medications were appropriate. It was easier to say No. This is common with rare diseases.

    DRJ (15874d)

  28. We have a disease nation wide.
    Lawyeritis.

    mg (9e54f8)

  29. Can you imagine building cabinets with a lawyers attitude? How would they lie when they cut a board to short?

    mg (9e54f8)

  30. Anticipating the next argument will be that we shouldn’t deport from the US anybody who has children living with them, (especially if those kids were born in the US after the illegal crossing and the kids are now American citizens)

    pete (a65bac)

  31. It’s helpful to consider the alternatives to this policy. One is what Obama did (as swc explained above) — to let illegal immigrants go and trust them to turn themselves in at some future date, which is unlikely. If Obama detained them, there aren’t enough family detention centers to make that feasible so Obama put detainees and families in motels. That is very expensive, unsafe for the communities, and a likely way to lose control of detainees.

    DRJ (15874d)

  32. . If they choose deportation, they aren’t separated from their kids; if they choose to apply for asylum, they stay in the country longer than 20 days, and their kids have to be removed by operation of law.“

    That part is not true.
    Every person caught is prosecuted, allowed to plead guilty, then deported after (generally) being sentenced to time served. But they are separated from their children at the time of arrest, and are not usually reunited with their children by the time they are deported.

    The “instant deportation” option is available only to citizens of Mexico and Canada (I suppose the idea is that you can’t send a Honduran back to Mexico.) Maybe that is what Shapiro meant.

    The reports I have seen state that people are not allowed to claim asylum if they are not at a Port of Entry, and that US officials are slowwalking asylum claims like they’re Schumer with a Trump nominee.

    kishnevi (e85727)

  33. First of all Trump should change the policy since everybody seems to think he can (how’d that work out before when he tried it?) and make it so when these “families” are picked up they are put on a bus and shipped back to Mexico. Period. Second, build the damn wall! That will keep a lot of them out.

    Rev.Hoagie (c5d6cf)

  34. Past Presidents gave illegals a pass on prosecution if they brought their kids with them. Trump isn’t. That’s the difference.

    Past presidents recognized the immorality of taking these kinds of steps to enforce the law. Obama had Mexico do immoral things.

    Trump doesn’t care about morality, or more exactly, he’s afraid of his base, which has been subjected to 44 years of steady propaganda about illegal aliens on talk radio.

    whether we have devoted sufficient resources to be able to actually enforce such a zero-tolerance policy

    They’re doing it.

    This prosecution business is actually a loophole. They have them plead guilty, then let them agree to leave the country and not serve their maximum 6 month sentence. Sometimes the children don’t get returned before the parents are deported. It takes special legal intervention to see that they are – the children’s asylum cases need to be dropped.

    Note: Anyone deported has a bar aaginst legala dmission for ten years, with only hardhsip exemptions (extreme hardship only to a spouse, not to a child)

    There are exceptions of course; the proponents of restrictive and very low immigration need to allow for that in order to discourage liberalization of the law. If that out was not allowed in cases of extreme publicity, there might be movement to change the law.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  35. The reports I have seen state that people are not allowed to claim asylum if they are not at a Port of Entry, and that US officials are slowwalking asylum claims like they’re Schumer with a Trump nominee.

    kishnevi (e85727) — 6/19/2018 @ 9:18 am

    I think Sessions has clarified the asylum rules so the Obama era decisions (that any asylum claim deserved a hearing) are no longer allowed. They must allege a legal, credible claim upon entry or they are not considered as entitled to asylum. In addition, there are no family/asylum detention centers in areas outside the ports of entry.

    DRJ (15874d)

  36. The best way to get rid of a bad law (and the current immigration system, with its country-quotas and preference system is terrible law) is to enforce it ruthlessly. If Congress doesn’t like the result of it OWN legislation, then it should write new laws rather than whine about what happens when their laws are enforced.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  37. It seems like that is the basis of Cruz’s legislation, Kevin M. I am disappointed in him, again.

    DRJ (15874d)

  38. If you want to enter, follow the laws and get in line with everyone else.

    That’s propaganda. There is no legal way for most people to enter, and trump wanst to reduce this further, at least for peopel added to the waiting list.

    The purpose of the law is to prevent immigration.

    Why do we hear this nonsense about a line? Only to fool people.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  39. Why is two sets of laws necessary? When do lawyers put on the white gloves for the voting Americans? Clinton should have been serving time by now. Instead she is making money off of the border crisis.

    mg (9e54f8)

  40. Lawyer ruling class is getting old.

    mg (9e54f8)

  41. There are 26 ports of entry in Texas. Some people present themselves there and claim asylum, especially under Obama. But most illegal immigrants cross the Texas border away from those ports, in desolate areas far from roads and people. They die there, too. It is not easy for them or for the Border Patrol.

    DRJ (15874d)

  42. 36. Kevin M (752a26) — 6/19/2018 @ 9:31 am

    The best way to get rid of a bad law is to enforce it ruthlessly.

    Well Trump may succeed in doing that, after Democrats win control of Congress. But thes wisest course, or at least a workable compromise, is to tolerate certain kinds of illegal immigration.

    Trump knows that Democrats do not want to argue the law should not be enforced, or even that it should be more liberal. And they don’t want to run on immigration.

    They may wind up doing so, however, in spite of themselves.

    Trump is now preparing to shut down the government on October 1. That will get everyone’s attention.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  43. Sec. Neilsen in the speech she gave yesterday morning to the LEO convention in New Orleans complained that US law makes it too easy to claim asylum, and gave rough percentages that suggests she thinks only about 16% percent of asylum seekers actually deserve it.

    kishnevi (e85727)

  44. If you looked at my link, you may recognize that ports of entry are generally at airports. There aren’t that many actual border crossing points, even in Texas.

    DRJ (15874d)

  45. 35.The reports I have seen state that people are not allowed to claim asylum if they are not at a
    DRJ (15874d) — 6/19/2018 @ 9:31 am

    think Sessions has clarified the asylum rules so the Obama era decisions (that any asylum claim deserved a hearing) are no longer allowed.

    And fear of being killed by a family member, or by a criminal gang, is not such a claim.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  46. You haven’t heard of any Democrat proposing any change of the grounds for asylum. They’re scared of the issue, and Trump knows it. So long as they are scared, Trump will think he has the upper hand.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  47. Standing in line is not propaganda Sammy. It’s the law. The truth is we have little need of immigration right now. we are not obligated to admit anyone

    Patricia (4ca2b0)

  48. It’s been an ongoing invasion for years that hasn’t been answered as the act of war that it is. No one has a right to come here except for an American citizen.

    Sorry if that breaks someone’s bleeding heart. But it’s the truth. We cannot let the world live here and rewrite our laws to suit them.

    NJRob (b00189)

  49. Btw,

    this sudden focus by the media on the “plight of children” is to take away from the IG report and keep it away from the news.

    NJRob (b00189)

  50. @Patterico,

    I thought I would share this news article that I found in a Germany newspaper about the German-American immigration experience.
    https://tinyurl.com/ellis-island-historical-fact

    Immigrants who had contagious diseases or who were too weak to work were simply sent back to their native countries. Sick children over the age of twelve were sent back on their own. In such cases, the parents had to decide whether they should return with their children, or whether one of them should remain in America – a tough choice for people who had often spent their entire fortune on the crossing. Such dramatic incidents soon gave Ellis Island its nickname: “Island of Tears”.

    I share that paragraph specifically, because this was standard at not only Ellis Island, but thru out all the other popular ports of entry in the US during the Post Civil War till the start of the second world war. Whether it was New Orleans, San Francisco, Seattle, etc. For those that cite the mythology that we were accepting of all immigration no matter what, the harsh truth is that we weren’t. If you add in that some states post Revolutionary War states still had religious exemptions, the various Asian exclusionary acts where when some were passed in the 1920s it almost caused a war with Japan, to the segregation of the Italians, Poles, and other Eastern Europeans during the early part of the 20th century. Our immigration laws/rules has always been wonky and non-progressive for a large amount of this nation’s history. Don’t get wrapped up in all the myths when debating this topic

    Charles (8ffdf1)

  51. nobody really gives a crap about these caterwauling urchins

    it’s summertime you know and ramadan’s over and i just love it

    so don’t cry for me orphantita

    the truth is i’m apathetic

    i have my own life

    so sad about yours

    tu mama y papa

    they made bad choices

    happyfeet (a037ad)


  52. this sudden focus by the media on the “plight of children” is to take away from the IG report and keep it away from the news.
    NJRob


    You got it NJRob. The left doesn’t give a rats ass about “the children” unless they help the left politically. Suddenly, after years of the same policy it’s a major problem and kids are being held in “concentration camps”. Bull. Phonies like Q! and noel are partisan hacks when children are involved. The same democrat pigs who have no problem LITTERALLY Ripping babies from their mothers wombs and killing them suddenly become all warm and fuzzy when illegals put their children in jeopardy and we taxpayers pay to take care of them. Hey Q!, hey noel, hey Dustbin, how many kids have you fostered or adopted? I fostered two and adopted one.

    Rev.Hoagie (c5d6cf)

  53. #42

    DRJ

    Aha!! I’m onto you Texans. One of those ports of entry is on S. Cage Blvd….. hmmmmmm… I’ll wait for you to explain

    steveg (a9dcab)

  54. “That’s propaganda.“

    No. Those are the rules, my friend.

    Colonel Haiku (c7ccf8)

  55. 51. This indeed was standard after 1885 (Ellis Island itself opened in 1892)

    People also did their best to evade immigration law. They didn’t come so legally in the 3 decades before World War I..

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  56. Colonel Haiku @55.

    “That’s propaganda.“

    No. Those are the rules, my friend.

    What’s propaganda is:

    If you want to enter, follow the laws and get in line with everyone else.

    For many people it is not possible to enter by following the rules.

    The idea that they could enter if they only followed the rules is what is propaganda.

    Neither does everybody else follow the rules. A majority of people who actually immmigrate legally do not. About 1 million peole become legal immigrants each year – 600,000 of them are change of status

    (which doesn’t necessarily mean they violated any rules except that it is a violation of a rule, encoded in the 1952 McCarren Walter Immmigraion Act – and grounds for denial of a visa – to come to America with a non-immigrant visa with an intent to later change that if possible.

    So if they followed the rules they couldn’t have planned it.)

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  57. This is analogous to home invaders who have left their kids out in the car while brutalizing you and your house. No one whines about the kids not being in the cell with the invader parents, how is this different?

    Angelo (b123de)

  58. Here is a link to a lawyer who is coaching legit and illegit “asylum” seekers to enter the country first and then apply for asylum.

    http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/us-immigration/can-you-request-asylum-border.html

    The points I took away are: (Tell me if I am messing this up)
    It is better to avoid asking for asylum at ports of entry because the interviewing agent has sole discretion and can deny entry and asylum without a hearing.

    Visa holders should process through the port of entry as a visitor, get a Lawyer/ Coach and then apply for asylum.

    Without commenting on the legality of how one gets into the country without a visa, the preferred method still applies, which is to enter the country and then apply for asylum

    To conclude, I think that what I see ICE doing is charging those who circumnavigate the ports of entry with a felony which means that of course the family is separated. It happens all day every day when mom and dad are locked up on felony charges.

    This made me think of the list that Breitbart compiled of the arrest records of DACA recipients

    http://www.breitbart.com/2018-elections/2018/06/18/dhs-factsheet-shows-1000s-daca-crimes/

    steveg (a9dcab)

  59. For many people it is not possible to enter by following the rules.

    Oh.

    That’s too bad.

    C.M. Funk (3a5dbc)

  60. This is analogous to the story of cinderella who was a young, unloved urchin who didn’t get to go to the ball cause her parents were illegal immigrant losers and everyone said well maybe you can get your G.E.D. and go to community college but she ended up getting pregnant in the detention center and began abusing opioids the end.

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  61. About that increase in individuals using minors to pose as families: Out of context.

    Paul Montagu (54c2a3)

  62. @60 steveg – And the family unit remains in tact the entire time. Hmmmmm….who are the villains again?

    Ed from SFV (2b4ea8)


  63. 63.About that increase in individuals using minors to pose as families: Out of context.
    Paul Montagu (54c2a3) — 6/19/2018 @ 11:43 am


    Bullsh!t, Montagu. The volume doesn’t matter the act does. These “adults” whether the parents or not are using these kids to perform a crime. Period. And you would let them because you want to use and abuse children for political gain. You’re a child abuser once removed because you defend these pigs. You and your whole filthy leftist party. I watched a clip of that bald pig Rep. Cummings screaming about “the children” with sweat squirting out of his ugly bald head yet he never met an abortionist he didn’t like. All you leftists are liars and hypocrites.

    Rev.Hoagie (c5d6cf)

  64. What’s propaganda is:
    If you want to enter, follow the laws and get in line with everyone else.
    For many people it is not possible to enter by following the rules.

    So… if you want to enter, get an application form and follow instructions. No where does it say or imply that entering the US is guaranteed.

    Colonel Haiku (c7ccf8)

  65. You’re a child abuser once removed because you defend these pigs. You and your whole filthy leftist party. I watched a clip of that bald pig

    Ladies and gentlemen, this kind of stuff, plus the idea this terrible situation is called for by scripture, is why the nation rejected Trump in the last election. It’s why the GOP is underwater in polls leading into mid-terms. It’s why we don’t trust you guys when you claim it’s not racism. The hate is very obvious.

    Personally I support a wide gates and tall walls immigration where everyone is required to follow the law, every single time, but I also find it very unfortunate that the racists get all the press on this issue.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  66. Checking the LA Times today and there is not a single story about FBI corruption.

    AZ Bob (9a6ada)

  67. Each one of these “families” could have gone to the American Embassy or any American Consulate in Mexico and applied for asylum. The “family” could have remained intact during this review. That these people chose to do otherwise is indicative that asylum was not their priority. Their priority was, and is, getting into the US by any means necessary.

    Mark Stein put it best. He said if he was stopped at the border and told he’d be separated from his daughter, he’d turn around and go back home. What kind of parent wouldn’t?


    but I also find it very unfortunate that the racists get all the press on this issue.


    So let me get this straight. You’re using the lives and well being of children as political fodder but we’re Raaaacists?
    Didn’t take lil Dustbin long to launch the Race Card, did it? That’s all you got? Loser.

    Rev.Hoagie (c5d6cf)

  68. “But the wisest course, or at least a workable compromise, is to tolerate certain kinds of illegal immigration.”

    This is the core defect in the Federal government at this time. Laws get passed and are then enforced inconsistently. This means the voters that want some law or another argue for even stricter laws. Those stricter laws get passed and are still unenforced. This cycle continues until some official comes along and decides they want to actually enforce the laws. The laws are discovered to be awful, draconian and inhumane. Then we get angry at someone in the government for enforcing the law, while the Congresspeople that passed the laws get to exclaim, “That’s not what we wanted to happen.”

    This argument boils down to: our government officials do not need to follow the law, they can rule by whatever whim compels them.

    Xmas (e63a38)

  69. The more media outlets broadcast audio of wailing children and video of ‘caged’ illegals to the world, the more they’re helping, in all likelihood unwittingly, Trump make his point. If only there were audio tapes to play of the weeping and crying at Kate Steinle’s funeral. Or video of other American citizens victimized by illegals.

    There are no minefields along America’s borders. There is no patrol routinely machine-gunning illegal crossers; their bodies left to rot as reminders in the hot sun.

    Maybe there should be.

    The United States is a generous and compassionate country. All the nation asks is immigrants apply to enter legally, through proper ports of entry. If not, wail all you want when you’re caught– and suffer the consequences. Crying kiddies don’t melt my heart.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  70. So let me get this straight. You’re using the lives and well being of children as political fodder but we’re Raaaacists?
    Didn’t take lil Dustbin long to launch the Race Card, did it? That’s all you got? Loser.

    Rev.Hoagie (c5d6cf) — 6/19/2018 @ 12:17 pm

    Sorry if my point triggered you, but a few days ago you went on about Obama being a half-breed. I am just calling it like I see it. Many people support immigration law for sensible reasons, but you’re so hateful about it. It’s a shame the press picks your perspective to illustrate the conservative side of the debate.

    You’re using the lives and well being of children as political fodder

    Nope, I didn’t do that. Stop deflecting. Own up like a grown man with integrity.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  71. The United States is a generous and compassionate country. All the nation asks is immigrants apply to enter legally, through proper ports of entry. If not, wail all you want when you’re caught– and suffer the consequences. Crying kiddies don’t melt my heart.

    DCSCA

    Exactly. But that perspective doesn’t sell newspapers or get clicks. Sessions saying the bible told him to separate kids from parents… yeah that will sell a few million bucks worth of advertisements.

    We’re a lot looser on immigration than most nations, and we have a whose economy and political system needs reform. By providing this enormous relief valve, Mexico doesn’t improve, but also there’s the idea that democrats have imported voters. And it produces a second class of Americans. The guys mowing Mitt Romney’s lawn or building Trump’s next hotel don’t get the same rights as documented American citizens, so they don’t get the same pay either.

    Insisting everyone is equal before the law is a compassionate, reasonable point of view, but the raw emotion of this issue is very persuasive when the press suggests one side is motivated by hatred.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  72. You’re a child abuser once removed because you defend these pigs. You and your whole filthy leftist party. I watched a clip of that bald pig Rep. Cummings screaming about “the children” with sweat squirting out of his ugly bald head yet he never met an abortionist he didn’t like. All you leftists are liars and hypocrites.
    Rev.Hoagie (c5d6cf) — 6/19/2018 @ 11:55 am

    This is the harsh truth.

    felipe (023cc9)

  73. 67:
    “…..but I also find it very unfortunate that the racists get all the press on this issue.”

    If only these folks got more press:

    “A stunning 22 percent of inmates in the federal prison population are immigrants who have either already been deemed to be in the country illegally or who the government is looking to put in deportation proceedings, the administration said Tuesday.”

    https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/aug/1/immigrants-22-percent-federal-prison-population/

    “About 51% of immigrant-led households receive at least one kind of welfare benefit, including Medicaid, food stamps, school lunches and housing assistance, compared to 30% for native-led households, according to the report from the Center for Immigration Studies, a group that advocates for lower levels of immigration. Those numbers increase for households with children, with 76% of immigrant-led households receiving welfare, compared to 52% for the native-born.”

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/01/immigrant-welfare-use-report/71517072/

    More 67:
    “It’s why the GOP is underwater in polls leading into mid-terms. It’s why we don’t trust you guys when you claim it’s not racism. The hate is very obvious.”

    I guess almost 60% of blue CA is racist:

    A poll released by UC Berkeley’s Haas Institute for a Fair and Inclusive Society, a left-wing organization, found some shocking results in the far-left state of California, including a desire from a clear majority of 59 percent to “increase deportations” of illegal immigrants.

    https://haasinstitute.berkeley.edu/california-survey-othering-and-belonging

    harkin (e5c973)

  74. 71. DCSCA (797bc0) — 6/19/2018 @ 12:23 pm

    There are no minefields along America’s borders. There is no patrol routinely machine-gunning illegal crossers; their bodies left to rot as reminders in the hot sun.

    There are some people actually willing to do that.

    That’s the kind of thing done by China (to people trying to get out) or by Turkey (to people trying to get in, but only after pressure from Europe, whih outsources its immorality.

    Obama did too.

    He used the de facto death penalty to deter illegal immigration to the United states.

    He advertised to people in Central America that they could be killed in Mexico, and made diplomatic efforts to make it more likely. He pressured Mexico to keep people away from the U.S. border and stop them in Mexico. No similar pressure probably to prevent people from being killed – on the contrary that was used and taken advantage of.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/26/opinion/sunday/obamas-death-sentence-for-young-refugees.html

    In effect, we have pressured and bribed Mexico to do our dirty work, detaining and deporting people fleeing gangs in Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala….The American-Mexican collusion began in 2014 after a surge of Central Americans crossed into the U.S., including 50,000 unaccompanied children. Obama spoke with Peña Nieto “to develop concrete proposals” to address the flow. This turned out to be a plan to intercept Central Americans near Mexico’s southern border and send them home.

    Washington committed $86 million to support the program. Although Obama portrayed his action as an effort to address a humanitarian crisis, he made the crisis worse. The old routes minors took across Mexico were perilous, but the new ones adopted to avoid checkpoints are even more dangerous.

    That links to this article, dated Dec. 6, 2012, 12:01 a.m. EST

    https://www.propublica.org/article/the-new-border-illegal-immigrations-shifting-frontierv

    But you still can’t say Trump is not a hypocrite, because he’s not truly owning up to his policy, but blaming Democrats.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  75. I guess almost 60% of blue CA is racist:

    Harkin, I think I made my point crystal clear that most of the folks who support immigration enforcement aren’t racist, but the press will focus on the ones who screech “reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee” and are clearly motivated by hatred.

    So your sarcastic reaction that I was saying something I did not say is just typical Trump Defense Force obnoxious stuff, intended to persuade no one. Y’all side calls Obama out for the sin of having a black father. Hoagie’s been radio silent in defense of his remark to that effect. You guys get so hateful at the drop of a hat, and have justified ripping kids from parents because the bible told you so. Of course the press, almost all of it biased horribly, either jumps on the reeeeeee bandwagon like Hannity, or focuses on the bigotry to make the GOP look bad. Trump’s administration makes it too easy to do.

    Trump could instead try to mitigate this ugliness. You know, he could practice politics.

    I do find it unfortunate that racists have found such comfort in Trump, but I understand it.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  76. @50. this sudden focus by the media on the “plight of children” is to take away from the IG report and keep it away from the news.

    Nah.

    The Beast needs fed and this sort of story, especially as slow-news-summer settles in, is an all-you-can-eat-buffet for cable news. They can picnic on this and keep going back for more to fill air time. It offers great pictures and sound, provides fodder for talking heads to snack on and puts Trump on the defensive.

    Look for our Captain to go on offensive and wrestle control of the media cycle back by the weekend. He’s good at it. Maybe announce a Trump-Putin summit or some such thing.

    “It’s good to be the king.” – King Louis XVI [Mel Brooks] ‘History of the World: Part 1′ 1981

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  77. @76. But you still can’t say Trump is not a hypocrite, because he’s not truly owning up to his policy, but blaming Democrats.

    LOL, ‘hypocrite,’ Sammy?!

    Sure beats porn star porker, fascist, egotist, adulterer, authoritarian and any number of other derogatory terms to toss at him, Sammy. ‘Hypocrite’ is probably the most benign and least offensive thing to label him of late.

    DCSCA (797bc0)


  78. Hoagie’s been radio silent in defense of his remark to that effect. You guys get so hateful at the drop of a hat, and have justified ripping kids from parents because the bible told you so.


    I’m not “radio silent” on anything. I do have other things to do than watch for your comments here. What you perceive as “hateful” is just us giving back to you all the sh!t you guys throw at us. BTW, you anti Christian reference shows exactly what I mean. We are racist, stupid ignorant Christians aren’t we? I love having the Bible preached to me by atheist baby killers. Just love it.

    Rev.Hoagie (c5d6cf)

  79. Donald J. Trump
    @realDonaldTrump

    Crime in Germany is up 10% plus (officials do not want to report these crimes) since migrants were accepted. Others countries are even worse. Be smart America!

    9:52 AM – Jun 19, 2018

    Trump has to pretend this is about crime, and not about a crackpot economic theory that nobody ever uses to argue for any other kind of law.

    Crime is not up 10% in Germany. Trump claims that officials in Germany just don’t want to report the true crime rate.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/germany-crime-rate-donald-trump-tweet-today-fact-check-2018-06-18/

    Official statistics claim crime fell by 9.6 percent in Germany in 2017, with violent crime falling 2.4 percent, and crimes by non-German suspects fell by 22 percent in 2017.

    Now maybe they are covering things up, or maybe they are doing more effective policing. Trump doesn’t say what he is basing this on.

    There is a report about Lower Saxony, but even there many of the victims of the crimes are also migrants, which is logical.

    Nor are all groups of migrants equal. It really makes a difference what country they come from, (and also what precedes their coming) yet they are all being lumped together, into a made up category.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  80. DCSCA, it’s got everything. It’s got the racist stereotype some dummies are all too eager to actually demonstrate. It’s got Trump not caring about things normal people do care about. It’s a legitimate political controversy with no black and white good answer.

    Every sane American feels awful for the crying little girl whose parents made the decision to drag her across the border. In fact, quite a few Americans feel great sympathy for the parents, who probably just want to work hard and make their way through the world. A lot of Americans know a few people like that. They aren’t evil… they just didn’t have the great blessing of birth in the USA. In the micro, it’s really understandable to come to the USA. In the macro, if we didn’t enforce the law, our nation isn’t so great after a while.

    Probably shouldn’t go on about half-breeds and pigs and the like if you want to explain that, but the media is going to present the two extremes of the argument, and very few people will bother with hearing both sides out.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  81. This was your assertion:

    “but I also find it very unfortunate that the racists get all the press on this issue.”

    The poll I link represented people, and that was “in the press“. These people are a majority of Californians. Saying that only screeching racists are getting press is ridiculous.

    If you had said that US citizens with legitimate concerns about illegal immigrant crime, illegal immigrant welfare abuse, illegal immigrantion effects on unemployment etc. are being cast as racists by a dishonest media instead of addressing real issues, I would agree with you.

    I myself am mixed race and think that racism has very little to do with it. Rather it’s about culture as well as preserving our sovereignty, enforcing our laws and borders and using common sense on how many LEGAL immigrants we take in.

    I really don’t see where there is anything wrong with what I said, other than confusing your quote 67 with your quote 71, and for that I beg your pardon.

    harkin (e5c973)

  82. 79. DCSCA (797bc0) — 6/19/2018 @ 1:00 pm

    Sure beats porn star porker, fascist, egotist, adulterer, authoritarian and any number of other derogatory terms to toss at him, Sammy. ‘Hypocrite’ is probably the most benign and least offensive thing to label him of late.

    You could say acouple of worse things, but the difference between hypocrite and fascist is that hypocrite (and liar) is unquestionably true.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  83. I’m not “radio silent” on anything. I do have other things to do than watch for your comments here. What you perceive as “hateful” is just us giving back to you all the sh!t you guys throw at us. BTW, you anti Christian reference shows exactly what I mean. We are racist, stupid ignorant Christians aren’t we? I love having the Bible preached to me by atheist baby killers. Just love it.

    Rev.Hoagie

    Yeah you are. I asked you point blank, in several comments, why you criticized my point of view on Samantha Bee and Robert Denero, people I simply do not care about or ever expressed a view on. I also criticized your opinion that Obama’s problem is that he’s a “half breed.” Obama having a black and white parent has nothing to do with his merit as a president.

    Your response: “______________________________________________”

    Radio silence.

    I love having the Bible preached to me by atheist baby killers.

    It’s very, very lazy, and shows a lack of personal integrity, that you never respond when your comments are called out specifically, and to only respond to your fantasy version of the contrary point of view. You seem like a deeply troubled man who has to lie to make a point.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  84. Checking the LA Times today and there is not a single story about FBI corruption.

    The front page is dominated by: Trump is defiant on migrants

    Manufacture a crisis and the embarrassing FBI corruption disappears. Funny how that works.

    AZ Bob (9a6ada)

  85. I really don’t see where there is anything wrong with what I said, other than confusing your quote 67 with your quote 71, and for that I beg your pardon.

    harkin

    Apology accepted. I make the same mistake all the time.

    This was your assertion:

    “but I also find it very unfortunate that the racists get all the press on this issue.”

    Yes, that is my view. That’s a bad thing.

    If you had said that US citizens with legitimate concerns about illegal immigrant crime, illegal immigrant welfare abuse, illegal immigrantion effects on unemployment etc. are being cast as racists by a dishonest media instead of addressing real issues, I would agree with you.

    That’s close to my view. I think there are indeed a lot of truly racist Trump fans who think Obama is a half breed and express hatred at the drop of a hat or cite the bible to justify law enforcement discretion. Those people will be focused on. The Americans who have a more reasoned view about immigration enforcement, because of the factors you listed, will not get the same press coverage.

    Is that dishonest? Of course it is. It also sells more papers. I don’t think I’ve been unclear at all and you should read my comments again, perhaps a little more slowly before rushing to say I believe all supporters of immigration enforcement are racists. Obviously I said the exact opposite.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  86. 82. Dustin (ba94b2) — 6/19/2018 @ 1:01 pm

    It’s a legitimate political controversy with no black and white good answer.

    Oh, there is a good answrr, but it’s where nobdy wants to go.

    Don’t be a fanatic about enforcing the law

    Something has to give way, and that’s either our ordinary sense of morality or law enforcement. It should be law enforcement.

    They aren’t evil… they just didn’t have the great blessing of birth in the USA. In the micro, it’s really understandable to come to the USA. In the macro, if we didn’t enforce the law, our nation isn’t so great after a while.

    It happens not to be true. That’s how amewrica became great. (Ancient Rome, too actually)

    Even if it were true, we;re weay below the evels where that has an effect.

    Probably shouldn’t go on about half-breeds and pigs and the like if you want to explain that,

    Anybdy vigorously enforcing the law will turn into either a racist or a sociopath. Because that’s the kind of law it is. Against people pursuing happiness.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  87. Trump has to pretend this is about crime, and not about a crackpot economic theory that nobody ever uses to argue for any other kind of law.

    What crackpot economic theory? This is about the nature of the country we live in, who is admitted and who is not. It is about the control of our nation’s borders. Crime is just one part of that but a significant part if you happen to be someone whose family is affected by people who should never have been admitted in the first place.

    Skorcher (5b282a)

  88. Sammy, discretion is a critical component to any enforcement activity. But I do think the voters wanted a tougher approach to immigration. I think that one issue drove a lot of Trump’s political success.

    It happens not to be true. That’s how amewrica became great.

    Immigration indeed helped America become great, and every nation benefits from hard working assimilating and law abiding immigrants. But things have changed a great deal in the last 100 years. We don’t really need millions of people to do manual labor. We don’t need a second class of American. In my opinion, we need educated, English speaking, law abiding Americans to do skilled work and innovate and create.

    One aspect of this is Trump’s complete failure to remedy the labor participation rate. It’s as bad as it was under Obama (terrible) and we are settling in to accepting that there aren’t enough jobs. This is a huge problem. Not working reduces our dignity as much as our prosperity. Dependence breeds so many problems. Importing millions of people who will be ill equipped for anything like a skilled job, and often don’t speak our language, will cultivate great dependence. And to many democrats, this is a feature. Dependence on government programs leads to reliable democrat voters.

    Let’s think a little bigger picture here. Where are these people coming from? Broken societies near the USA. Mexico for example. We are enriching Mexico, providing a failed government with a relief valve, and thwarting the push to fix that society. That means America is less safe. It means Mexicans are less happy. There is no reason why a nation sharing a border with the USA isn’t incredibly prosperous, and indeed the few at the top in Mexico are amazingly so.

    When you speak of discretion I think you’re on the money. We need to make sure we’re doing the right thing for the right reasons. We need to make sure we are compassionate and good as a people, and not motivated by hatred and bitterness. And I think an immigration control initiative generally does have those motivations, but we also have an element that doesn’t, and they are getting the attention.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  89. “I watched a clip of that bald pig Rep. Cummings screaming about “the children” with sweat squirting out of his ugly bald head yet he never met an abortionist he didn’t like. All you leftists are liars and hypocrites.”
    Rev.Hoagie (c5d6cf) — 6/19/2018 @ 11:55 am

    Heck, Rev.Hoagie, I am a pro-life Republican and you call me stuff like that all the time. You really should narrow that enemies list a bit.

    noel (b4d580)

  90. WASHINGTON — Republican senators moved on Tuesday to defuse a political crisis by seeking passage of legislation that would swiftly bring an end to President Trump’s practice of separating children from their parents when families cross into the United States illegally.

    Senator Mitch McConnell, the majority leader, said that “ all of the members of the Republican conference support a plan that keeps families together,” endorsing an approach that would provide legal authority to detain parents and children together while their legal status in the country is assessed by the courts. wapo. Well, well, well. If the Monkey-in-Chief won’t do it on his-own-self (like he oughta), don’t necessarily mean it won’t get done . . . We shall see where the bananas land, I suppose . . .

    Q! (86710c)

  91. Opps again. not wapo by but nyt.

    Q! (86710c)

  92. Q — what part of “When reporters play tapes of kids crying” did you miss?

    Your entire post is inapposite to anything I wrote.

    It’s also factually wrong because when a parent pleads to a misdemeanor and is deported, the kids are sent with them.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  93. Quetzacoatl is as usual mailing it in.

    narciso (cc2282)

  94. If thats a reference to a misbegottenly revered national figure, Quetzecoatl needs to morph into a hypocritical but effective Victor Orban.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  95. Sammy,

    keep burning those strawman. If you don’t have borders, you don’t have a nation. If you don’t have a common culture, you don’t have a nation ready for civil war. History shows us the truth.

    NJRob (0f45b1)

  96. We helped some Nepali (legal) immigrants over some years. Went to a naturalization ceremony a couple of months ago. Ninety-one people from eighteen countries. I suppose I should have stood up and yelled, “Chumps!” Doing it the right way. Sheesh. How lame.

    Richard Aubrey (10ef71)

  97. Urban,

    I think narciso is just saying Q! is short for Quetzecoatl.

    NJRob (0f45b1)

  98. The volume doesn’t matter the act does.

    Breathe, Hoagie. Ms. Nielsen said “the kids are being used as pawns by the smugglers and the traffickers,” to justify the program, when it’s only true 0.1% to 1.0% of the time.

    Paul Montagu (54c2a3)

  99. And which authority are you relying on for that assessment paul

    narciso (cc2282)

  100. I’m confident that you can drill down from my link as easily as I could, narciso, but because I’m an accommodating kind of a guy, the data comes directly from Department of Homeland Security.

    Paul Montagu (54c2a3)

  101. 95… Que? Entonces, Quimbycoatl es la verdad pura…

    Colonel Haiku (c7ccf8)

  102. This is the harsh truth.

    felipe (023cc9) — 6/19/2018 @ 12:33 pm

    When all is said and done, there are those who stand for life and those who claim to as they aid and abet the enemies of the right to life.

    Colonel Haiku (c7ccf8)

  103. Ladies and gentlemen, this kind of stuff, plus the idea this terrible situation is called for by scripture, is why the nation rejected Trump in the last election.

    Summoning Eric… and yet he is teh President.

    Colonel Haiku (c7ccf8)

  104. Ponnurru has an alternative that is strong on enforcement and doesn’t cross the line into immoral territory the way Trump’s current policy does.

    An alternative policy would have three parts. The administration would stop enforcing its zero tolerance policy on adults traveling with children until it got changes in the law that enabled the humane detention of families. It would advance those changes in the law as a stand-alone measure rather than using legislators’ desire to keep children with their parents as leverage to win other immigration-related policy changes. And it would, separately, push for legislative changes that enabled other means of enforcing the immigration laws, such as punishing businesses whose new hires are illegal immigrants.

    Paul Montagu (54c2a3)

  105. 54. *** One of those ports of entry is on S. Cage Blvd….. hmmmmmm… I’ll wait for you to explain

    steveg (a9dcab) — 6/19/2018 @ 10:55 am

    It gets worse, steveg. Cage BLVD in Pharr, Texas was named for the local newspaper owner. And since this post is about how to treat children:

    In 1915 the town’s population was estimated at 600, and by that year schools had opened, with Mexican students attending classes at the six-grade East Juárez school. When the site for the school was moved, it became known as Pharr Grammar School for Mexican Children. Separate facilities for junior and senior high school students were not provided because Mexican children were not expected to get beyond grammar school.

    They did not desegregate the schools until the 1970’s.

    DRJ (15874d)

  106. Trump’s comment about Democrats wanting illegal immigrants “to pour and infest our Country” is borderline racist, and hearkens back to an ugly, earlier time when a certain group of people were said to infest society.

    Paul Montagu (54c2a3)

  107. “Lots of people yelling at you on TV don’t even have children, so don’t for a second let them take the moral high ground. Their goal is to change your country forever, and they are succeeding by the way.”

    —- Tucker Carlson

    Colonel Haiku (c7ccf8)

  108. strong on enforcement and doesn’t cross the line into immoral territory the way Trump’s current policy does.

    Immortal territory?

    Here is a quote from Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen from yesterday’s press conference:

    For example, if there’s no documentation to confirm the claimed relationship between an adult and a child, we do so if the parent is a national security, public or safety risk, including when there are criminal charges at issue and it may not be appropriate to maintain the family in detention together.

    We also separate a parent and child if the adult is suspected of human trafficking. There have been cases where minors have been used and trafficked by unrelated adults in an effort to avoid detention. And I’d stop here to say, in the last five months, we have a 314 percent increase in adults and children arriving at the border, fraudulently claiming to be a family unit. This is, obviously, of concern.

    And separation can occur when the parent is charged with human smuggling. Under those circumstances, we would detain the parent in an appropriate secure detention facility separate from the child.

    What has changed is that we no longer exempt entire classes of people who break the law. Everyone is subject to prosecution. When DHS refers a case against a parent or legal guardian for criminal prosecution, the parent or legal guardian will be placed into the U.S. Marshals Service custody for pretrial determination, pursuant to an order by a federal judge. And any accompanied child will be transferred to the Department of Health and Human Services and will be reclassified as an unaccompanied alien child. That is in accordance with the TVPRA — a law that was passed by Congress — and a following court order, neither which are actions the Trump administration has taken.

    And let’s be clear: If an American were to commit a crime anywhere in the United States, they would go to jail and they would be separated from their family. This is not a controversial idea.

    What American criminals are suffering from the same immoral punitive actions as the illegal criminals? When do you express outrage on their behalf?

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  109. Remember that when you read the perverted words of those who aid and abet the real enemies.

    Colonel Haiku (c7ccf8)

  110. Immortal s/b Immoral

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  111. You mean this one hoss, that looks more like 30%:

    That’s an innumerate comment, narciso. In FYE September 2017, there were 46 individuals bringing phony children across the border out of a population of 75,622 family units apprehended, so the percentage is 0.06% of the total (I rounded it up to 0.1%). The percentage was higher in the ensuing five months (0.6%, which generously rounded to 1%). To me, justifying a policy that doesn’t even involve 1% of the population makes for a piss-poor argument.

    Paul Montagu (54c2a3)

  112. Great examples, Paul. Indeed there’s a lot for a racist to love about Trump’s rhetoric. He’s a caricature of a conservative.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  113. @82. Dustin- in TeeVee, you know what the difference is between tapes of crying kiddies and a missing Malaysia Airlines jet with 239 people aboard?

    Nothing.

    “You’re television incarnate, Diana: Indifferent to suffering; insensitive to joy. All of life is reduced to the common rubble of banality. War, murder, death are all the same to you as bottles of beer. And the daily business of life is a corrupt comedy. You even shatter the sensations of time and space into split seconds and instant replays. You’re madness, Diana. Virulent madness.” – Max Schumacher [William Holden] ‘Network’ 1976

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  114. I think there are indeed a lot of truly racist Trump fans who think Obama is a half breed and express hatred at the drop of a hat or cite the bible to justify law enforcement discretion.“

    I disagree (except with the fact that Obama is a ‘half breed’, a crude expression yet accurate. I’m a half breed myself and that term does not bother me). People in my sphere who opposed Obama did so not because he had a black parent but because he’s a lying sack of leftist excrement who IMHO was as destructive to the country as he was adored by the media.

    I did not vote for Trump but of the people I know who did, not one would I ever consider as even close to bigoted or racist. I’ve also never been quoted scripture by them as reasoning for policy. White, Latino and black, (yes I know black Trump voters) almost universally expressed concern for this country and were sick and tired of all the lies being told to them by Democrats and establishment Republicans. To think a huge portion of these people are racist is curious considering lots of them voted for Obama.

    perhaps a little more slowly before rushing to say I believe all supporters of immigration enforcement are racists.”

    I don’t care how fast or slow you read or even if you are Evelyn Wood, I did not say you said that. I said what you said, that only the racists were getting the press coverage, which I repeat is ridiculous.

    harkin (e5c973)

  115. @110.“Lots of people yelling at you on TV don’t even have children, so don’t for a second let them take the moral high ground. Their goal is to change your country forever, and they are succeeding by the way.” —- Tucker Carlson

    =Haiku= Gesundheit!

    Pfft. Their goal is to get you to sit through commercials and watch them yell at each other on the TeeVee until the next entertaining story is dumped into the news cycle.

    Haiku is hungry; pinch off that tasty Trump-Putin summit, now, Captain!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  116. “in TeeVee, you know what the difference is between tapes of crying kiddies and a missing Malaysia Airlines jet with 239 people aboard? Nothing.”

    I don’t remember CNNs Don Lemon suggesting that any children were sucked into a black hole or the Twilight Zone.

    https://youtu.be/ZpVd7k1Uw6A

    harkin (e5c973)

  117. @119. Give him time; ‘Where are the girls?!?!’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  118. “I certainly agree with Jeff [Goldberg] when it comes to the ability of the administration to change this. But … the focus on these kids, while I certainly understand it from a media perspective, is ignoring what is really driving these factors.

    “Why do we have a 200 percent year over year increase in the number of people coming across? Why do we have the biggest month to month increase between February and March that we’ve seen since 2011?

    “And the answer to that is the activity of the Mexican cartels, who use these migrants as essentially a distraction to clog systems so they are able to funnel drugs across the border.

    “In the last week, we saw two more political candidates in Mexico murdered in broad daylight. One a mayor running for Congress right across the Rio Grande. Another mayor who, you know, has been a reformer, fighting against the cartels. That brings the total to 113 political candidates in Mexico who have been murdered by the cartels in less than a year.

    “Mexico’s political, violent situation is something that is not going to be solved when it comes to driving these types of migrations. And that’s going to require things that I’m not sure the Congress is really willing to grasp – the kind of support and diplomacy and activity to prevent our southern neighbor from becoming a failed state.”

    Read it all:

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/2018/06/19/violence_in_mexico_driving_crisis_at_the_border_445233.html

    harkin (e5c973)

  119. harkin,

    For those who opposed Obama because of his policies, what reason is there to call him a half-breed except racism or to otherwise inflame the emotions? It may be factual but that doesn’t make it meaningful or helpful.

    DRJ (15874d)

  120. Trump has to pretend this is about crime, and not about a crackpot economic theory that nobody ever uses to argue for any other kind of law.

    Crime is not up 10% in Germany. Trump claims that officials in Germany just don’t want to report the true crime rate.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/germany-crime-rate-donald-trump-tweet-today-fact-check-2018-06-18/

    Official statistics claim crime fell by 9.6 percent in Germany in 2017, with violent crime falling 2.4 percent, and crimes by non-German suspects fell by 22 percent in 2017.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 6/19/2018 @ 1:00 pm

    Yet the BBC and Reuters say differently. They say crime in Germany us up. They say that immigrant crime is up by 30%.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-crime/violent-crime-rises-in-germany-and-is-attributed-to-refugees-idUSKBN1ES16J

    Tanny O’Haley (47a8b4)

  121. Trump has found a way to get the Republican Congress to act. I don’t have a problem with Trump’s zero tolerance policy, nor do I have a problem with keeping families together — as long as the asylum decisions are expedited as this bill seems to do:

    U.S. Sen. Ted Cruz announced emergency legislation Monday evening to keep immigrant families together after they cross the border into the United States.

    The legislation follows comments Cruz made on Saturday that essentially called for more resources to adjudicate asylum claims. He also called for keeping immigrant kids with their parents as long as those adults are not associated with criminal activity.

    It’s a legitimate solution, but I still think his ultimate goal is getting re-elected.

    DRJ (15874d)

  122. It is fun to see the GOP Senate support Cruz and not Trump. You chose Trump over Cruz, GOPe. You deserve whatever Trump is about to do to you.

    DRJ (15874d)

  123. The legislation follows comments Cruz made on Saturday that essentially called for more resources to adjudicate asylum claims…

    Expanding government?!?! 😉

    It’s a legitimate solution, but I still think his ultimate goal is getting re-elected.

    Of course it is.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  124. DRJ,

    to insult him. He says he’s black when he’s mixed. He has no problem insulting his white grandmother, but acts like he is only his father’s son.

    I’m an European mutt. Doesn’t bother me to say I’m one. As for my detailed ancestry, I don’t care. I’m an American. Obama was born to an American mother, but is quintessentially anti-American.

    More importantly, I don’t care when people insult someone who is trying to do me harm. If someone is anti-American or supports anti-American policies they are a PoS in my book. Yes, I bet we differ as to what makes a policy anti-American. One is to remake the nation with immigrants from communist nations to dilute the existing vote enough to allow communists to come into power with all that entails. I don’t care if you are black, white or blue. If you come here illegally you go back. If you come here legally and end up on the government dole, you go back.

    You are responsible for yourself and your family. No one else.

    Lastly, if we accept people into this nation by breaking the law from places where breaking the law is commonplace, then all we’ve done is signal that breaking the law is permissible for some.

    NJRob (0f45b1)

  125. 81 from the BBC

    “What figures did the report use?
    The report used statistics from Lower Saxony – regarded as an average state – where police saw an increase of 10.4% in reported violent crimes in 2015 and 2016.

    Based on figures from the state’s interior ministry, which keeps a separate record of alleged crimes by migrants, the report suggested that 92.1% of this increase was attributable to migrants.

    Lower Saxony has seen a significant increase in arrivals of migrants in recent years.”

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  126. Acc to CBS Eve News, they don’t seem to be separating families 100% now – maybe if the family group is big enough

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  127. 90 Dustin, what in the world are you talking about?

    “Trump’s complete failure to remedy the labor participation rate. It’s as bad as it was under Obama (terrible) and we are settling in to accepting that there aren’t enough jobs. This is a huge problem.”

    Have you never heard of the baby bummer generation? Unless your suggesting we take away Social Security how would you suggest we stop them from retiring?

    Who’s accepting there aren’t enough jobs? Have you missed the dozens of stories about more open jobs than people looking for work?

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  128. CNN Money June 5th

    “Want more evidence that America’s economy needs more workers? For the first time in at least 20 years, there are now more job openings than there are people looking for work.”

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  129. @128. ‘I’m an European mutt. Doesn’t bother me to say I’m one.’

    Meh. And constantly at war with yourself. 😉 Keeps Alka-Seltzer and Pepto Bismol in business.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  130. Official statistics claim crime fell by 9.6 percent in Germany in 2017, with violent crime falling 2.4 percent, and crimes by non-German suspects fell by 22 percent in 2017.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 6/19/2018 @ 1:00 pm

    When the future of Merkel and the rest of Socialist European leaders and their union are in peril, you had better expect the books will be cooked to try and hide the disastrous consequences of unfettered immigration from the Moslem third world.

    Colonel Haiku (c7ccf8)

  131. It takes a pueblo…

    Colonel Haiku (c7ccf8)

  132. Its is fun to see the GOP Senate support Cruz and not Trump. You chose Trump over Cruz, GOPe. You deserve whatever Trump is about to do to you.

    This is interesting in two ways. 1st, the story you provided does not say that the GOP Senate is supporting Cruz. 2nd, Trump told Congress that they needed to fix the problem through legislation and now Congress is scrambling to do exactly that. Trump comes out on top again.

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  133. To me, justifying a policy that doesn’t even involve 1% of the population makes for a piss-poor argument.

    Paul Montagu (54c2a3) — 6/19/2018 @ 3:26 pm

    By that logic your ok ignoring murder and countless other crimes as well.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  134. Reading some of these deranged posts about Trump supporters this, Trump supporters that reminded me of a very interesting column from Salena Zito from a few days ago that was well worth a read:

    https://nypost.com/2018/06/16/these-harvard-kids-got-the-lesson-of-their-life-in-the-heartland/amp/

    Colonel Haiku (c7ccf8)

  135. Here’s an excerpt…

    “On a blustery afternoon in April, I filed into a van along with 10 students from Harvard. We had just spent the last two days in Chicopee, Mass., where we had chatted with the police chief and his force, the mayor and his staff, small-business owners, waitresses and firemen about their struggles living in small-town America.

    The undergrads were buzzing with their impressions. Chicopee is about 90 miles west of their prestigious university in Cambridge, but when it comes to shared experience, it might as well have been 1,000 light years away.

    As they settled in, I looked at them.

    “So,” I said, “who do you think most of the people you just got to know voted for president?”

    None of the students had an answer. It hadn’t come up in their conversations and they didn’t know I had privately asked each person whom they’d voted for.

    So I let a minute pass and told them.

    “Nearly every one of them voted for Trump.”

    My students at first looked stunned. But then recognition crossed their faces.

    We were only a few days into a new course I had developed with Harvard’s Institute of Politics, called the Main Street Project, where students are immersed in small-town America. Even though these kids had almost all been raised in the United States, our journey sometimes felt like an anthropology course, as though they were seeing the rest of the country for the first time. And this was their opening lesson.”

    Colonel Haiku (c7ccf8)

  136. Well worth a read and it warms the heart and strengthens one’s faith in small-town America.

    Colonel Haiku (c7ccf8)

  137. “For those who opposed Obama because of his policies, what reason is there to call him a half-breed except racism or to otherwise inflame the emotions? It may be factual but that doesn’t make it meaningful or helpful.”

    I would be more sympathetic to this feeling if the man himself and his minions did not brazenly play the race card against anyone who opposed his dishonest and disastrous schemes.
    Anyone who uses ‘half-breed’ is responding in kind to his original race-baiting. It’s not my cup of tea but for any average Obama defender to find fault with one and not the other is to employ a double standard.

    I also might point out that I don’t recall anyone in here calling out the ‘monkey-in-chief’ blast directed towards the president.

    harkin (e5c973)

  138. Rob, I’m sorry but I don’t understand your point. I understand that Obama used his mixed race heritage to his advantage. Do you think calling him a half-breed is a way of saying Obama is a hypocrite about everything, even if it has no relationship to the point a commenter is making?

    DRJ (15874d)

  139. So half-breed is just getting even?

    Also, who was called monkey-in-chief? Are you referring to Bush as ChimpyMcHitler, or Obama, or someone else?

    DRJ (15874d)

  140. DRJ,

    no. I think it’s an insult, nothing more. The same as the left calling us a nazi every time we do something that runs contrary to their agenda.

    Name calling is just that. If someone insults me, I don’t care if they get insulted back.

    NJRob (0f45b1)

  141. Seems like some are trying to cast someone they disagree with as the house racist. Lower lever blog/message board ploy.

    Also, who was called monkey-in-chief?”

    Search function

    Learn it
    Know it
    Live it

    harkin (e5c973)

  142. What you’d really like to see…

    In what can only be described as a gesture of true corporate empathy, the American Dream was made a reality today by top media executives as several major mainstream media outlets hired four bilingual, illegal immigrants as cable television news readers to replace on air talent let go by network brass. Frito Bandido will replace MSNBC’s Katy Tur; Juan ‘Taco’ Bell will replace CNN’s Jake Tapper; Chiquita Banana will take Laura Ingraham’s spot at Fox and Juan Valdez will replace CNN’s Don Lemon. The networks each released a statement noting the status of the new hires is ‘pending legal review.’ Among the terminated cable news personalities, only CNN’s Lemon was available for comment. “B-b-but, I’m black. And gay. How can they do this? Look how many boxes I check. I just don’t understand. Why should an illegal take my job? I’m just a reporter. It’s so unfair,” said Lemon.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  143. 148. That, sir, was brilliant.

    Gryph (5efbad)

  144. Except ingraham has made the point explicit

    narciso (4a28a8)

  145. By that logic your ok ignoring murder and countless other crimes as well.

    I’m not seeing that, Nate. Would you imprison 99+% of a group of adults and children who are innocent of murder, thereby punishing that overwhelming majority, on the chance that there are 0.006% to 0.06% of them who are murderers? Where’s the justice in that?

    Paul Montagu (54c2a3)


  146. For those who opposed Obama because of his policies, what reason is there to call him a half-breed except racism or to otherwise inflame the emotions? It may be factual but that doesn’t make it meaningful or helpful.
    DRJ (15874d) — 6/19/2018 @ 4:13 pm


    DRJ, all I can say to you is I called Hussein a half breed to make a point. That point is if you don’t like being called names then don’t call others names. The left in this country speaks of us conservatives in the most demeaning and derogatory ways on a constant basis. All day today all I heard and read was “Nazi”, “Concentration camps”, “Hitleresque”, and the usual stuff like Racist, uneducated and stupid. From Deplorables till now whenever I (and I’m sure many of you) have attempted to parlay with a leftist as soon as a point is made they unleash the name calling. Well, now I will too. You saw it on the media all day today. It was nothing but a name calling cluster f**k. And these are politicians and media people. When DeNiro shouted “F**k Trump” he wasn’t talking to Trump DRJ, he was talking to us.

    BTW, you may be amused that my son calls Hussein a half breed too. He says he’s a disgrace to black people and set the black race in America back 70 years. But what does he know he’s just a 39 year old kid to me. And you can take the half breed slur any way you want to. He’s half white-half black, half Kenyan-half American, half moslem half Christian and so on. You chose to focus on race but I’m the racist! I live with mixed races and I know what a real racist is. Part of my family is now fleeing to Australia to escape real racists.

    Rev.Hoagie (c5d6cf)

  147. I would be more sympathetic to this feeling if the man himself and his minions did not brazenly play the race card against anyone who opposed his dishonest and disastrous schemes.
    Anyone who uses ‘half-breed’ is responding in kind to his original race-baiting.

    “Anyone”?

    Patterico (115b1f)

  148. From Deplorables till now whenever I (and I’m sure many of you) have attempted to parlay with a leftist as soon as a point is made they unleash the name calling. Well, now I will too.

    If you want to use leftists’ behavior as an excuse to behave poorly, like a leftist, please don’t do it on my blog.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  149. “Photos of border detention facilities from the Obama-era, taken during 2014, look nearly identical to the ones taken during the Trump era.

    You never see them, however. Here they are, taken in 2014 during a media tour of an Obama-era detention facilities in Brownsville, Texas, and Nogales, Arizona.“

    http://dailycaller.com/2018/06/19/photos-obama-immigration-detention-facilities/

    Media: Sorry but the Dems really really really need to do well in the upcoming midterms.

    harkin (e5c973)

  150. But it’s fine for q to do it, that’s why they kicked him out of the continuum. I find what Obama believes and what he did to be more dispositive, ymmv.

    narciso (4a28a8)

  151. “Anyone”?

    Well, not Cher.

    harkin (e5c973)

  152. Well, not Cher.

    How about Richard Spencer and his Nazi followers?

    Patterico (115b1f)

  153. In 1939 the s.s. st.louis full of jewish children was turned away from ameriKKKa’s ports and ordered back to germany. (see movie voyage of the damned) when children with their mothers seek asylum at u.s. ports of entry they are told to go away by ice. you can see them on the news sitting in front of the closed entry gates. some things never change!

    children of st.louis (b2ebd6)

  154. Meanwhile….

    “General Electric is being replaced by Walgreens Boots Alliance, in the latest setback for a troubled conglomerate that once had the highest market value of any U.S. corporation”

    The times they are a changin’.

    harkin (e5c973)

  155. If Trump were to invent a nickname for the Senate Minority Leader, it should be Cynical Schumer. Today, Schumer said that he would not support the GOP bill which would keep illegal immigrant families together while in detention.

    “There are so many obstacles to legislation and when the president can do it with his own pen, it makes no sense,” Schumer told reporters. “Legislation is not the way to go here when it’s so easy for the president to sign it.”

    Under law, Trump actually cannot have a zero-tolerance policy and keep families together. The only three viable options are these:

    Under Flores, the government has three options: releasing families together, passing a law that would allow for family detention or breaking up the families. The Trump administration has so far chosen the third option.

    In effect, Schumer is basically giving Trump only two of the options: relent on zero-tolerance or keep it going. By Schumer’s political calculations, IMO, he wins either way because Trump loses by backing down on zero-tolerance, thus looking weak by folding, and Trump loses by keeping an immoral policy in effect. He has shut out Trump’s out on the matter. It is beyond cynical on Schumer’s part. By his opposition, Schumer is communicating his opposition to Trump’s zero-tolerance policy by trying to put the political pressure back on Trump. Meantime, the people who remain hurt by both parties are the illegal immigrant children who are the innocent victims in this kerfuffle.

    Paul Montagu (54c2a3)

  156. How about Richard Spencer and his Nazi followers?”

    Godwin’s law strikes again.

    I’m not too familiar with R Spencer but if he called me a half breed I could not argue, nor would I wish to. My parents are of different races and I am not ashamed of it.

    If someone called me a Nazi or used an analogy to make it appear I agreed with the ideas of racists or nazis I would tell them to go f**k themselves.

    harkin (e5c973)

  157. No you approve of a policy you admit it atrocious, would you have done the same with fast and furious, that left a blood trail all the way to honduras.

    narciso (4a28a8)

  158. Flashback: Both Hillary And Obama Advocated Separating Migrant Families, Strict Border Control [BONUS – Bubba too]

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-06-19/flashback-both-hillary-and-obama-advocated-separating-migrant-families-strict

    harkin (e5c973)

  159. Hey, how come these kids are called “Dreamers” and half of American citizen kids are called “Deplorables”?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  160. How about Richard Spencer and his Nazi followers?”

    Godwin’s law strikes again.

    Allow me to retort.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  161. Rachel Maddow weeps on camera at end of her show, unable to read breaking story on ‘tender age’ centers for infants.

    Christ Almighty; Cronkite only choked up a second when reporting JFK’s death and continued like the pro that he was.

    Maddow is utterly unprofessional.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  162. If you think there is no such thing as an actual racist who calls Obama a half-breed, you are giving cover to actual racists.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  163. Patterico (115b1f)

  164. @165. =Haiku!= Gesundheit!

    Deplorables 2.

    Opens November, 2018

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  165. And Richard Spencer has relevance to what now Marcuse and fanon

    narciso (3e6ac1)

  166. Ultimately, someone who is not a citizen can keep their family together through a simple expedient: do not enter the United States of America illegally. If you want to enter, follow the laws and get in line with everyone else.

    Just what I was thinking.

    And I was wondering today — would this situation discourage illegal entry? If it becomes well-known that people who enter the country illegally will be separated from their children, perhaps that will discourage that behavior in the first place.

    A corollary of which is that the US should spread the word about what it is doing. “Enter the US illegally and you may be separated from your kids.”

    Bored Lawyer (88bf82)

  167. @161 Under law, Trump actually cannot have a zero-tolerance policy and keep families together.

    I’m certainly no maven on immigration law (or much of any other law), but it is unclear to me why it should be the case that the above cited sentence is true. “Zero tolerance” (as I understand it) simply means bringing criminal charges for the alleged illegal entry. What’s to prevent the Gov’t from generally adopting the practice of promptly bailing out those parents charged with misdemeanor illegal entry to family detention centers? Is there anything really substantive that would prevent such a work-around, as a practical matter — other than administrative problems/niceties that can fairly readily be resolved by executive/administrative action?

    Q! (86710c)

  168. Paul, why do we have policies against murder when so few people are murdered? It’s far less than 1% if my head math is correct.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  169. For the record, I never called Obama a half-breed. Closet-Marxist, yes. A slick operator, yes. Those are worse, in my book.

    Bored Lawyer (88bf82)

  170. Patterico: blah blah blah Nazi blah

    You have missed the point entirely.

    Obama IS a half breed.

    I’M a half breed.

    Calling someone a half breed does not necessarily make you racist.

    It’s when they say the fact alone of being a half breed somehow diminishes their humanity, potential or character, THEN, THATS RACIST (and stupid, and hateful).

    Happy to help. Take it from a half breed.

    harkin (e5c973)

  171. I would say he’s all knave, I stopped considering him a fool some years ago, so as the cartels go on a rampage and the Mexican polity is on a retromingent turn what is to be done.

    narciso (3e6ac1)

  172. I don’t dispute your head math, Nate, I dispute the penalizing of a super-majority because there exists a super-minority of bad people.

    Paul Montagu (54c2a3)

  173. @160. GE unplugged.

    They brought good things to life… in the 20th century.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  174. Harkin, I have never come across use of the term half-breed as anything but an insult.

    kishnevi (4e6bac)

  175. @177. Calling someone a half breed does not necessarily make you racist.

    It certainly makes you half-assed.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  176. What’s to prevent the Gov’t from generally adopting the practice of promptly bailing out those parents charged with misdemeanor illegal entry to family detention centers?

    They would have to change the law to make that happen, as I understand it. Even though a misdemeanor, it’s still a criminal penalty, but I’ll defer to the actual lawyers if they so chose to chime in.

    Paul Montagu (54c2a3)

  177. Calling someone a half-breed for no reason other than to insult seems, at best, inflammatory and racist at worst.

    DRJ (15874d)

  178. I am a half breed – thanks to all those who say that term MUST be an insult and that I have no say in the matter, to the point of some saying I cover for nazis.

    I will not allow your racism to define me but nice try.

    smh

    harkin (e5c973)

  179. What’s to prevent the Gov’t from generally adopting the practice of promptly bailing out those parents charged with misdemeanor illegal entry to family detention centers?

    I was never an immigration lawyer but immigration law is not like state criminal courts. For instance, I don’t think there is a right to bail. In addition, the problem is that it takes a hearing, however brief, to set bail or arraign or take a plea. One big problem is that there aren’t enough judges to handle hearings and the detainees are so numerous and spread over a wide area, so it’s hard to get them to the courthouses for hearings.

    It would help to build a wall and then at least most detainees could be funneled to areas where they could be efficiently held, processed, and housed.

    DRJ (15874d)

  180. harkin,

    Some people have said the term half-breed is intended as an insult. Of course, Elizabeth Warren might disagree, just like you. If it is said as an insult, it’s not hard to see it as a racist insult.

    DRJ (15874d)

  181. One cannot deny that those behind this prophect to create a crisis, have race and class in mind, t hats why I mentioned Marcus and fanon.

    Narciso (3e6ac1)

  182. Cloward-Piven strikes again.

    NJRob (0f45b1)

  183. Patterico: blah blah blah Nazi blah

    As if I brought in the concept of Nazis gratuitously. I’m not the one who said this very silly thing:

    Anyone who uses ‘half-breed’ is responding in kind to his original race-baiting.

    Nazis are an obvious exception to this blanket overstatement.

    Then, using typical harkin logic, you cite Godwin.

    Godwin agrees with me, not with you. The tweet I embedded was about the people who marched at Charloteesville.

    Then, using more typical harkin logic, you equate my rejection of your blanket defense of anyone who would use the term “half breed” with a declaration that I “say that term MUST be an insult.”

    Because I can make a point and infuriate swc in one fell swoop, I’ll cite symbolic logic again.

    “I reject your claim that x never means y” is very different from a claim that x always means y.

    This is pretty simple stuff. Either you fail to grasp very simple logic or you’re arguing dishonestly. I’m honestly not sure which it is.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  184. And yes, your blanket defense of anyone who uses the term does provide aid and comfort to Nazis. Sorry if the truth hurts.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  185. I understand getting angry causes you to lash out and perhaps not to think straight. Slow down and think before you type. Take a deep breath if it helps.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  186. A better answer might be: “ya got me, of course there are actual racists, but I still resent Obama’s constant race-baiting too.”

    I get that it gives you that extra “conservative” frisson of self-righteousness to pretend that literally all racially tinged insults of Obama are in reaction to his race-baiting. However, the thesis is laughable and does not reflect well on you. I advise you to drop it.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  187. @184 & 188

    See, generally, this mid-May article at Washington Times. In particular it implies that bail is indeed available for the federal offense at issue (given, inter alia, that a US D.Ct. judge there denied the prosecution’s request for bail).

    E.g.,

    The government has asked for Marbel Yaneth Ramirez-Raudales to be held on a $10,000 secured bond but Judge Curiel instead only required a signature and an unsecured bond promise. The judge reasoned that the migrant was going into immigration custody, so there was no risk of flight.

    As far as the zero tolerance policy putting stress on the federal judiciary (and prosecutors, and public defenders, etc.), of course that is going to happen. Elections have consequences, as do policy decisions.

    Q! (86710c)

  188. it’s this same kind of mindless knee-jerk partisan yapping that causes “conservatives” to cite Godwin literally anytime Nazis are mentioned, no matter how appropriately — and ignore the fact that Godwin himself thinks this argument is stupid.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  189. From merriam-Webster… Half-breed: amalgam, blend, combination, conglomeration, cross, hodgepodge, hybrid, medley, mishmash, mule, mutt, cross-breed, miscegenation, mélange

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  190. How is going into immigration custody getting bail, Q!?

    DRJ (15874d)

  191. My 3 kids are a mélange of English/Mexican/Scot/Dane. They are beautiful young people. All these and more are part of the greatness of America, what makes it special.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  192. Harkin, I have never come across use of the term half-breed as anything but an insult.

    kishnevi (4e6bac) — 6/19/2018 @ 7:47 pm

    The dictionary claims the sole definition of this term is “offensive.” Obviously we all know what it means. A lot of good people supported Trump, but some David Duke types from Stormfront, people who are mad that we had elected a black president, also supported Trump. The guys who think it’s funny or useful to criticize Obama’s lack of pure breeding. I recall that Trump was a leader on the birther movement, and very fixated on Obama’s supposed Kenyan origins. The more fringe element of the left uses this ‘dog whistle’ as a way to smear all conservatives, but it only works because it’s a little bit true… there are some racists in the movement. Most stereotypes and prejudices have some real examples to build hate from.

    I find it worth mentioning when we talk about immigration because I do not oppose illegal immigration out of racism. I genuinely think Mexico’s society is worse off for illegal immigration.

    Most don’t roll our eyes at the Nazi concern anymore. Most don’t say “it could never happen here.” Trump has a special group of supporters who are intensely loyal to him. This is dangerous and real. The ‘fake news’ concept has immunized Trump’s supporters from criticism and scandal. Trump’s claim about strong power supports doing things that present severe hardship. He is using the peril of children and parent separated as a form of punishment. His administration supports cruelty with references to religion.

    Thank God the GOP is standing up against Trump. It is giving me hope that the party isn’t dead.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  193. Half-breed, as defined:

    a contemptuous term used to refer to the offspring of parents of different racial origin, especially the offspring of an American Indian and a white person of European descent.

    As they say, words mean things, and the words “half-breed” applied to someone who is half-white and half-other is basically a racial slur.

    Paul Montagu (54c2a3)

  194. For the record, I never called Obama a half-breed. Closet-Marxist, yes. A slick operator, yes. Those are worse, in my book.

    Bored Lawyer (88bf82) — 6/19/2018 @ 7:19 pm

    Amen. President Obama’s real sin, in my book, is that he had a golden precious opportunity to be beyond politics and racial division and really heal some deep wounds. It was time. I wondered if his 2004 speech meant this is what Obama was about. I guess not. He stoked the flames when it was the easier path.

    I guess buried in that opportunity is the obvious point that Obama was our nation’s first black president. His race has that relevance, but it’s not hard to treat that matter with a little respect while criticizing Obama’s flaws.

    Trump similarly has used the easy path. For him, the hard path would have involved a more solid and straight rebuke of David Duke and those hatreds he’s associated with, instead of the quiet wink wink nod nod thing.

    The sad thing is, both Obama and Trump are among our nation’s most successful politicians for a reason. Division works.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  195. Follow Paul’s link and see that the term is categorized as “disparaging and offensive.”

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  196. The GOP – Walking Dead

    mg (9e54f8)

  197. Ye

    narciso (d1f714)

  198. DRJ, at 199 & 202. You’re missing the point, and mis-reading the law. Re: the SCT. case you linked to, that was an immigration law case, not a criminal law case. Re: the question of whether misdemeanor illegal entry under federal law is a bailable offense, the Wash.Times case renders it pretty clear that it is. The prosecutor asked for a 10k$ secured bond, for heaven’s sake (and I’m assuming s/he wasn’t so incompetent as to fail to bring to the Court’s attention that no bail was available for such an offense, if that were (contrafactually) the law). I’m afraid I do not grasp the gist or import of your question How is going into immigration custody getting bail, Q!? I suggest you actually read the article.

    Q! (86710c)

  199. Definition of half-breed

    often offensive: the offspring of parents of different races; especially : the offspring of an American Indian and a white person
    — half-breed adjective, often offensive

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/half-breed

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  200. Its a stupid term, not as bad as another which is also in common parlance,

    We saw how the promise of daca led to the immigration wave in 2014

    Narciso (3e6ac1)

  201. How is a child taken away from parents who put that child’s life at risk smuggling them into America, at peril? That’s an absurd claim. Every one of those kids is safer than when their parents took them on that journey.

    Why does this only apply to illegal immigrants? Are kids taken by CBS in peril?

    How about all the kids Obama turned over to human traffickers, are they in peril?

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  202. Webster’s 1913 Dictionary
    Half´-breed` Pronunciation: ~brēd`
    a. 1. Half-blooded.
    n. 1. A person who is half-blooded; the offspring of parents of different races, especially of the American Indian and the white race.

    WordNet Dictionary
    Noun 1. half-breed – half-caste offspring of parents of different races (especially of white and Indian parents)
    Synonyms: breed
    Adj. 1. half-breed – (of animals) having only one purebred parent
    Synonyms: half-blooded, half-bred

    http://www.webster-dictionary.org/definition/half-breed

    No mention of offensiveness.

    It used to be the case that merely noting race was not considered de facto racism. Now, the PC view is we are not supposed to notice such things. Another similar word, mulatto, is the same way. It was not typically used as a slur, but a neutral descriptive of a child who had one black and one white parent. Older dictionaries will just give you the definition. Newer ones will say it’s offensive.

    Anon Y. Mous (6cc438)

  203. I read your link, Q!. The detainee you mentioned was not required to post a bond because she was not bailed out. Instead, she continued to be held in custody pending her asylum hearing. She did not have a right to bail and, in fact, did not get released.

    DRJ (15874d)

  204. Your link is from Webster’s 1913 dictionary, Anon Y. Mous.

    DRJ (15874d)

  205. Your link is from Webster’s 1913 dictionary, Anon Y. Mous.
    DRJ (15874d) — 6/19/2018 @ 9:20 pm

    Yes, it says that right in the blockquote. I also make the same point in my commentary about old dictionaries vs new. But, thank you for noticing.

    Anon Y. Mous (6cc438)

  206. Don’t you think it matters?

    DRJ (15874d)

  207. Merriam Webster now:

    Definition of half-breed
    often offensive

    : the offspring of parents of different races; especially : the offspring of an American Indian and a white person

    — half-breed adjective, often offensive

    I share your concern that words can be considered as offensive when they aren’t, but this word is not always benign.

    DRJ (15874d)

  208. Anon, your example doesn’t actually convey your point, that the expression isn’t offensive. It’s likely that the 1913 dictionary did not label disparaging terms as such, the way many modern dictionaries do. I searched for the term “idiot” “bigot” and “degenerate” in your link, and with all three, there is no “mention of offensiveness.” Yet all three are indeed obvious disparaging insults.

    Everyone knows half-breed is a racist insult, so you’re really just arguing that the sky isn’t blue. All you’re really showing us is how stubborn political loyalty leads to a dark place intellectually.

    While my definition, identical to the troll and to Paul’s, is the first one to appear on all three major internet search engines, you clearly had to do some digging and the best you could find shows that yes, indeed half-breed refers to race of parents.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  209. One would think republican law makers would go down trying to save the country, but this group of herring would rather give it away to lying cheating lazy pieces of foreign sh!t.

    mg (9e54f8)

  210. @212. Anal Pore

    Definition of anal pore: an opening on the exterior surface of an animal (such as a fish, nematode, or paramecium) through which undigested food, water, or gas is expelled.

    source- http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anal pore

    No mention of offensiveness.

    Feel better now?!?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  211. Don’t you think it matters?
    DRJ (15874d) — 6/19/2018 @ 9:27 pm

    Sigh. My commentary specifically addresses that point. Of course I think it matters. That’s why I said so.

    Anon Y. Mous (6cc438)

  212. Couldn’t a relative handful of lawyers make the zero tolerance policy (even more) hopelessly unworkable by filing dilatory motions or otherwise drawing out the legal proceedings?

    For example, I imagine the system has nowhere near enough resources to conduct jury trials in federal court for every single illegal entrant.

    Dave (445e97)

  213. Don’t be so down on yourself disco.

    Narciso (3e6ac1)

  214. Society changes. We allow far more profanity on TV but we are more sensitive to labels like half-breed, retard, etc.

    DRJ (15874d)

  215. Sorry to cause you to Sigh, Anon Y. Mous. Are you verklempt?

    DRJ (15874d)

  216. I share your concern that words can be considered as offensive when they aren’t, but this word is not always benign.
    DRJ (15874d) — 6/19/2018 @ 9:29 pm

    I agree 100%. The word can be used as merely a descriptive or as a slur, depending on how it’s used. Highly context dependent. Of course, the same is true of the word Mexican. Or lawyer.

    My point was only that use of the word doesn’t automatically mean racism.

    Anon Y. Mous (6cc438)

  217. @224. You can do that Narciso?!?!

    “Kinky!” – Hedley Lamarr [Harvey Korman] ‘Blazing Saddles’ 1974

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  218. @213 DRJ. Sorry you don’t grasp what happened. Best of luck. (Accused was released from criminal law custody, without bail and only on “signature and an unsecured bond promise” because s/he was going into immigration law custody)

    Anyhow, this “research” renders me (at least) fairly confident that the assessment that The Prez could “make things right” here by pretty much of a wave of his pen is fairly spot on. The buck stops at the WH pretty clearly on this one (notwithstanding the protestations/lies to the contrary).

    Q! (86710c)

  219. DCSCA (797bc0) — 6/19/2018 @ 9:32 pm

    Is it your contention that referring to a person as a half-breed is analogous to referring to them as an anal pore?

    Anon Y. Mous (6cc438)

  220. @225. Maybe just a little Klemperer, eh DRJ?.

    And feelin’ Klinky.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  221. @229. That’s your pitch; swing at it.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  222. Dustin (ba94b2) — 6/19/2018 @ 9:29 pm

    Try the word n!gger. It is classified as a slur.

    Anon Y. Mous (6cc438)

  223. I agree 100%. The word can be used as merely a descriptive or as a slur, depending on how it’s used. Highly context dependent.

    Nah. By all means, go off the internet and into your town and walk up to a couple and say to the man that his woman appears to be a half-breed. Go right ahead. It’s a disparaging remark, and you had to go over 100 years in the past to find a source that doesn’t say so (which also doesn’t say “idiot” or “bigot” are offensive). Words mean things. Half-breed isn’t just some adjective like “green.” It’s clearly distinguishing an inferior from the “pure.”

    My point was only that use of the word doesn’t automatically mean racism.

    Even your definition made clear it’s solely about the race of one’s mom and dad. Do you understand what it means to make an issue of one’s race, let alone the race of their parent?

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  224. If you’re going to take a shot at someone using ‘half-breed’ consider it a rectal discharge.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  225. Unless you want to insist that border patrol want to hurt those under their care, heck I’ll assume because you’ve become as deranged any move on member, dustin.

    Narciso (3e6ac1)

  226. Oh goodie. Let’s look up dirty words in the dictionary! Then dip Ivanka’s pigtails in the inkwell.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  227. Try the word n!gger. It is classified as a slur.

    Anon Y. Mous (6cc438) — 6/19/2018 @ 9:45 pm

    You sure do comb the internet for cherry picked examples, but the words “idiot” “bigot” and “degenerate” are equally disparaging as “half breed.” Your source lists zero of them as disparaging or offensive, yet they are. Clearly your source is not a reliable authority on what words are offensive or disparaging. This is not really an opinion. I proved it.

    You know half-breed is an insult. If you don’t, post a video of yourself going downtown telling couples that one party of the relationship is a half-breed. They shouldn’t mind if the word doesn’t have an insulting meaning. This isn’t some game where we invent definitions. Words mean things.

    It isn’t that big a deal, in my opinion, to admit someone held a terrible view. What’s a big deal is the way a certain fringe political faction abhors accountability for its mistakes. It’s 2+2=5.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  228. Do you understand what it means to make an issue of one’s race, let alone the race of their parent?
    Dustin (ba94b2) — 6/19/2018 @ 9:45 pm

    Nope. When Obama calls himself Black, he is making an issue of his race. It is fair to point out that he is actually half black and half white. That is obvious to anyone outside the PC crowd.

    Using the word half-breed is just another way of making the same point.

    You obviously disagree. So explain your thinking. Why is it ok to say that Obama had a white mother and a black father, but not ok to say that Obama is a half-breed (or mulatto, which is a better descriptive for Obama’s circumstance).

    Anon Y. Mous (6cc438)

  229. @232. Try the word n!gger. It is classified as a slur.

    Try panning for gold along a water channel. It is classified as a sluice.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  230. If you don’t, post a video of yourself going downtown telling couples that one party of the relationship is a half-breed.

    You don’t even know the meaning of the word you are talking about. If I was to be interested in conducting your little experiment, people would wonder what the hell I was talking about. A so-called mixed race couple doesn’t mean that one of them is a half-breed. Their children could be described that way. They would be the product of one white and one black or whatever. They would be the ones that are half of one and half of the other.

    But, why would it be my business to run around talking to strangers and telling them that their kids are half-breeds?

    Anon Y. Mous (6cc438)

  231. http://perseus.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philologic/search3t?dbname=LSJ&dgdivhead=half-breed*&orthmode=unaccented

    This Greek dictionary, the Perseus, based on definitions from many thousands of years ago, doesn’t even have the expression “half-breed.” Proof that the word doesn’t even exist.

    In fact, no insult I can think of appears in the ancient Greek dictionary. It’s good to know that every ugly thing I’ve said in my life is not offensive, because an extremely out of date resource doesn’t affirmatively indicate it’s offensive.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  232. Anon, I agree that it’s unwise for you to go up to strangers and use “half-breed” towards them. They would beat the snot out of you, because that term is more or less equivalent to the N word. I find it remarkable that several Trump fans feel it’s important to say this sort of expression is totally cool. But only Trump fans. No lefties, no “nevertrumpers,” just Trump fans.

    There’s a lesson to be learned here.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  233. MSNBC’s Lawrence ‘Donnell on the ground in Brownsville, TX.

    “Where are the girls– the teenage girl?!?!”

    Apparently at… Casa Presidente.

    Seriously, Captain, sir? Casa Presidente?!? You plan on pick of the litter?!?! Or maybe a better plan would be to move them to another locale with a more wholesome name.

    Like Casa Mexico.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  234. Kicking them out of a coffee shop is fine, should they be stripped of child custody like they do with ukip?

    Narciso (3e6ac1)

  235. Q!,

    I understand that criminal charges for illegal entry are different than immigration hearings for removal or asylum. I also understand that bail may be available to persons with criminal charges.

    My point was that persons subject to immigration proceedings do not have a right to bail so they can be detained even if bail is granted on the criminal charges. That is my understanding of what happened in the link you provided. Help me understand how getting bail/ROR on the criminal charges helps them if they will continue to be held on the immigration matters?

    DRJ (15874d)

  236. @247 The issue under discussion is if -slash- how the separation of parent and child can be ameliorated in the “zero tolerance” policy cases. Children are not taken into criminal custody when their parents are criminally charged. The parents are. There is, thus, separation. To the extent that folks find this potentially harmful or objectionable, and thus something to be minimized, the question arises as to what can be done to minimize that separation. The Trump line has been a litany of falsities re: several issues, not the least of which is that: Too bad, So sad. Nothing can be done. Since the change in policy (instituting “zero tolerance”) introduces the criminal law into “the mix”, the question would seem to resolve down to whether or to what extent that necessitates extended separation. So far as I can tell it should not, and would not if in the prosecution of allegedly offending they were transferred out of criminal custody and into the immigration law custody where their children find themselves.

    Q! (86710c)

  237. @248 of allegedly offending should read of the allegedly offending parent(s)

    Q! (86710c)

  238. But bail does not erase the criminal charges, it only releases the person charged pending hearing. My understanding is that the zero tolerance policy means they are separating families when the parents face criminal charges and that would not change, would it?

    DRJ (15874d)


  239. Standing in line is not propaganda Sammy. It’s the law. The truth is we have little need of immigration right now. we are not obligated to admit anyone

    It is propaganda in the sense that for a great many MEXICAN immigrants, there is no open window at the head of that line, and has not been for decades. So, yes there is a line, but it never moves.

    The reason for this is twofold.

    1) There is a per-country quota that treats Mexico and Zimbabwe equally, never mind that there are FAR more applicants from Mexico. This imposes a cap on Mexicans that most country’s immigrants never hit.

    2) There is a preference system which takes a a current resident’s great-grandfather who needs a hip-replacement before it takes a 20-year-old tile setter with no familial connections.

    The preferences combine with the quota to ENSURE than no workers from Mexico can enter without family already (legally) here. It is cynical in the extreme to tell such people to “get in line.” So they react as people do when the traffic lights stay red. The law should have been changed decades ago, but it was always simpler to look the other way than to change the law.

    Trump is taking a needed step by removing parts of the preference system. It is also necessary to relax the quota for nearby populous countries (i.e. Mexico — already done for Canada).

    If you want people to stand in line, the line HAS to move.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  240. Indeed, thinking this through a bit more, so far as I know there is no principled reason why the parents couldn’t be immediately taken into immigration law custody (together with their children), and then subsequently criminally charged and then released back into immigration law custody (with their children), at a time when there could be the briefest of separations of parent from child.

    Q! (86710c)

  241. @250 See my thoughts @252. The goal for those who find the present policy to be wrong-headed/odious/whatever is to minimize the separations as much as reasonably feasible. Under @252, perhaps that would amount to hours, versus days or weeks. Or months. I recently read a story in wapo or nyt where the mom was deported back to Guatemala or Costa Rica following her guilty plea for misdemeanor illegal entry, while her child remained back in immigration law custody in the States. A horrific result, imo.

    Q! (86710c)

  242. The people attempting to enter this country are not so much immigrants as they are economic migrants with no inherent right of entry into the United States – and to the extent that there is an “ongoing human tragedy” on the border – the sole responsibility for it resides with those attempting to enter the county illegally.

    Colonel Haiku (c7ccf8)

  243. I think the reasons they can’t be united as families in custody are practical and based on law/policy:

    1. It is impractical to move people around that much. In Texas, the distances involved in capture and transport to detention facilities and courthouses are significant, and the resources are limited and overwhelmed as it is. It will get worse if you multiply the moves involved by a factor of two or three.

    2. The zero tolerance policy requires separation when there are criminal charges. Bail does not make criminal charges or the zero tolerance policy go away. Obama did not follow that policy and Trump/Sessions could change the policy, but that hasn’t happened.

    DRJ (15874d)

  244. I agree about who is to blame, Haiku, but we have to deal with this problem anyway. We should try to handle it as well as we can. And there is a role for compassion when innocent children are involved.

    DRJ (15874d)

  245. The policy is having a deterrent effect and that is valuable. It is also not a problem of our making, although there is an argument that Obama’s lax and permissive policies played a role in making immigrant’s think they could come. But we need to be as humane as we can, if only because we are America. I want a wall because it will make it easier to focus our interdiction, legal, and humanitarian resources more effectively.

    DRJ (15874d)

  246. You don’t understand Drj they don’t want it to work, they’ve been working to destroy the system for 50 years.

    Narciso (af5641)

  247. http://daily caller.com/2018/06/19/antifa-spreads-ice-age

    Narciso (af5641)

  248. 256… I agree, DRJ, humanitarian up to a point. But there must be a stand taken that says in no uncertain terms “THIS MUST BE ENDED”, and no mewling or caterwauling by the Left or the media will change it. The law must be obeyed. That and a wall being built is the only way to stop it

    Colonel Haiku (c7ccf8)

  249. Call it antifa or occupy or once upon a time asds and the weatherunderground.

    Narciso (af5641)

  250. “ It is also necessary to relax the quota for nearby populous countries (i.e. Mexico — already done for Canada).”

    I agree with this, numbers within reason.

    Colonel Haiku (c7ccf8)

  251. Sigh. My commentary specifically addresses that point. Of course I think it matters. That’s why I said so.

    Sigh. So why did you cite a 1913 dictionary. To prove that an offensive word was not offensive in 1913? Wow, great point.

    I’m with Dustin. I’d pay money to see you walk up to a person in real life and call them this supposedly nonoffewnive word, as long as you chose someone large enough to beat you. But then, you are even anonymous on the Internet, so I don’t see that happening. I don’t think you have the courage of your supposed convictions.

    Patterico (157532)

  252. Are you surprised by this kind of word game, Patterico? I’m not.

    I think some Trump supporters are so fed up by PC that they want to dance with abandon in a rainstorm of offensiveness.

    Simon Jester (99147b)

  253. And they never seem to get that their doing so energizes the Left.

    Or care.

    Simon Jester (99147b)

  254. Kevin M., last line, about The Line, was epic.

    urbanleftbehind (555524)

  255. I found this little morsel highly amusing… “Over the weekend, former CIA Director Michael Hayden displayed the calm reflection and sense of proportion for which Donald Trump’s opponents are known by likening the separation of illegal border crossers from their children to the Holocaust.”

    Colonel Haiku (c7ccf8)

  256. I think it’s important, too, Haiku. If I were President, I might decide the deterrent effect of this policy is worth the PR and human damage. But I also think we should think about whether there are other more humane solutions.

    My guess is that Cruz’s legislation is aimed at keeping most families together in detention facilities, perhaps even treating families as if they all claimed asylum. Adding immigration lawyers and judges would be designed to process immigrants’ claims faster so they can be deported faster (since most asylum claims are denied). That would reduce the expense of keeping families together, as well as act as a deterrent once immigrants learn that the U.S. border is like a revolving door instead of a welcome mat.

    What I keep coming back to is how hard it is to keep families together in detention facilities. We don’t do it when citizens are arrested for crimes because we don’t have family jails. They would be expensive to build and run — and it’s not as if families always get along. Obama took over entire hotels/motels to house immigrant families but imagine how much that cost, let alone the added cost of security. It makes sense to do in national emergencies, such as when we need to house large populations after a hurricane, but it doesn’t make sense as a routine border solution. But this is where we are because we refuse to secure our border.

    DRJ (46c88f)

  257. 268… I agree with everything you’ve just written, DRJ. And it’s good that some Republicans are trying to provide solutions while the other side chooses demagoguery over solutions.

    Colonel Haiku (c7ccf8)

  258. Good in the sense that the spotlight is shined on it.

    Colonel Haiku (c7ccf8)

  259. No because McConnell and Ryan refuse to, they listen to Tom donahue.

    Narciso (af5641)

  260. Are you surprised by this kind of word game, Patterico? I’m not.

    I think some Trump supporters are so fed up by PC that they want to dance with abandon in a rainstorm of offensiveness.

    That’s a charitable and probably largely accurate spin on the issue.

    What I have discovered is that I just don’t like people like that.

    It’s probably starting to show in my comments. There’s a difference between disagreeing with people, and starting to think that you just don’t like them as people. Those who want to perform the dance you describe…I’d prefer they do it out of my sight.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  261. That “routine border solution” may be necessary and the best we can do until we get serious about controlling the border and build that “wall”.

    Colonel Haiku (c7ccf8)

  262. Yes but it was one left cult leader who sends a mob against You, and it seems the authorities do nothing

    Narciso (af5641)

  263. I would think the unmasking of ice agents, would be a bigger issue, counselor.

    Narciso (af5641)

  264. So much goes unnoticed, narciso. But it is like drinking from a firehouse, there is so much happening.

    Colonel Haiku (c7ccf8)

  265. I was new to it, just like there is a corresponding site for intelligence op that would have given the lie to the claim about haspel.

    Narciso (af5641)

  266. So Simon, can we concern ourselves with the ‘looting of the food court’ and save the tsk taking for later.

    Narciso (af5641)

  267. I hope not, Haiku, because it means a 100-200 mile corridor along the Texas border will become like a DMZ. We already have frequent checkpoints for illegal immigrants, smuggling, and drugs on our roads where every car gets stopped. We’ve had it for years but it creeps further inland each year. Now there will be immigrant detention zones taking up all the motels for hundreds of miles. We actually live and travel here but that is becoming more difficult.

    DRJ (15874d)

  268. So the fact checker at the new Yorker, calls a va employee a Nazi, and hell boy joins in.

    Narciso (af5641)

  269. I was hoping to see a response to my 136, DRJ. You may have not seen it with this racist distraction filling the thread.

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  270. 279… ye gods, sounds like no country for old men come full-flower.

    Colonel Haiku (c7ccf8)

  271. I guess the #Metoo movement in Hollywood has expired:

    Peter Henry Fonda
    @iamfonda
    Kristjen Nielsen is a lying gash that should be put in a cage and poked at by passersby. The gash should be pilloried in Lafayette Square naked and whipped by passersby while being filmed for posterity.

    harkin (e5c973)

  272. Patterico,

    You might be irritated but you rarely got angry at liberals for their word games.

    I have a good friend who was a bankruptcy judge. He said the creditors who got the most upset at debtors in bankruptcy court — by far — were family members who were owed money. He thought it was harder for them because they had a connection and a history, so it felt like being betrayed.

    DRJ (15874d)

  273. Uneasy Rider
    blame drugs and dissolution
    i miss Hopper, man

    Colonel Haiku (c7ccf8)

  274. “I’m with Dustin. I’d pay money to see you walk up to a person in real life and call them this supposedly nonoffewnive word, as long as you chose someone large enough to beat you.

    I’m 6’1” and 200 lbs. Call me the word. I’ll say “you’re right, anything wrong with that?”

    Extra credit to the commenter who implied this was only the thinking of Trump supporters, I didn’t vote for the man.

    harkin (e5c973)

  275. Cruz submitted legislation to keep families together and I read the Senators as saying they want to keep families together. Trump’s policy doesn’t do that but he may decide to support it for PR reasons. He likes to win, even if he has to change policies to do it.

    DRJ (15874d)

  276. 286… well said, harkin!

    Colonel Haiku (c7ccf8)

  277. just keeping it real, and damned if you didn’t do that.

    Colonel Haiku (c7ccf8)

  278. 288 – actually what I should have just said is “you’re right”

    The added verbiage might imply there’s possible offense but since people here think the person using the word could be Hitler II, I’m on my guard.

    harkin (e5c973)

  279. Extra credit to the commenter who implied this was only the thinking of Trump supporters, I didn’t vote for the man.

    You didn’t?

    Patterico (115b1f)

  280. When did you stop hating families, harkin?

    Colonel Haiku (c7ccf8)

  281. I’m with Dustin. I’d pay money to see you walk up to a person in real life and call them this supposedly nonoffewnive word, as long as you chose someone large enough to beat you. But then, you are even anonymous on the Internet, so I don’t see that happening. I don’t think you have the courage of your supposed convictions.

    Tell you what, why don’t you conduct an experiment for me. Walk up to random people on the street and call them jerks. Then tell me what that proves. Because, oh look, dictionaries don’t call the word “jerk” offensive. It must mean it’s ok to call people jerks, right?

    Then tell me about the courage of your convictions.

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/jerk

    BTW, that’s the current Merriam-Webster.

    Anon Y. Mous (6cc438)

  282. Assuming that Trump actually believes the words that are coming out of his mouth, there were three to five million illegal votes that cost him the popular vote. His comments on the subject were fact-checked, but he seems immune to fact-checking because he repeats* the same lies over and over.
    I’m hesitant to get inside Trump’s head on this, but it is plausible that one of his reasons for the zero-tolerance policy on illegals is that he fears that there will be millions of illegal votes in 2020, all against him, which would cause him to lose.
    But a few days ago, another leg of his already-flimsy argument was pulled away, this time from the guy he chose to investigate voter fraud voter (a venture that failed miserably), Kris Kobach. The Kansas City federal court not only shut down the law that KK was defending (which would have required proof-of-citizenship for voter registration)…

    Sure enough, yesterday federal Judge Julie Robinson overturned the law that Kobach was defending as lead counsel for the state, dealing him an unalloyed defeat. The statute, championed by Kobach and signed into law in 2013, required Kansans to present proof of citizenship in order to register to vote. The American Civil Liberties Union sued, contending that the law violated the National Voter Registration Act (AKA the “motor voter” law), which was designed to make it easy to register.
    The trial had a significance that extends far beyond the Jayhawk state. One of the fundamental questions in the debate over alleged voter fraud — whether a substantial number of non-citizens are in fact registering to vote — was one of two issues to be determined in the Kansas proceedings. (The second was whether there was a less burdensome solution than what Kansas had adopted.) That made the trial a telling opportunity to remove the voter fraud claims from the charged, and largely proof-free, realms of political campaigns and cable news shoutfests and examine them under the exacting strictures of the rules of evidence.
    That’s precisely what occurred and according to Robinson, an appointee of George W. Bush, the proof that voter fraud is widespread was utterly lacking. As the judge put it, “the court finds no credible evidence that a substantial number of noncitizens registered to vote” even under the previous law, which Kobach had claimed was weak.

    …his performance in court was so terrible that the judge cited him for contempt and ordered him to take remedial classes on trial procedure.

    In her opinion, Robinson described “a pattern and practice by Defendant [Kobach] of flaunting disclosure and discovery rules.” As she put it, “it is not clear to the Court whether Defendant repeatedly failed to meet his disclosure obligations intentionally or due to his unfamiliarity with the federal rules.” She ordered Kobach to attend the equivalent of after-school tutoring: six hours of extra legal education on the rules of civil procedure or the rules of evidence (and to present the court with a certificate of completion).

    It is un-credible folks like KK whom Trump picked to maintain his un-credible statements. The facts and the truth should matter, even when they contradict this president’s bogus narratives.
    * “Trump has a proclivity to repeat, over and over, many of his false or misleading statements. We’ve counted at least 122 claims that the president has repeated at least three times, some with breathtaking frequency.”

    Paul Montagu (54c2a3)

  283. 81. Trump was fact-checked on his “crime is up in Germany” comments, Sammy, and there has been an uptick to the rate of his lies.

    Paul Montagu (54c2a3)

  284. @294 and there has been an uptick to the rate of his [Trump’s] lies

    True, but for many in the base, that’s a plus. First, it drives the commie libtards rinos absolutely crazy! Bonkers!, those retro-metros! And second, of course, the more he lies only means there’s so much more of him to love. #maga

    Q! (86710c)

  285. And now anonymous sources in the White House are blaming Trump’s wife for folding on his zero-tolerance policy. I am both entertained and appalled at the “Melania made him do it” crap.

    Paul Montagu (54c2a3)

  286. @297. It was Ivanka who gave Daddy’s deal the kiss of death. Likely a wet one, too.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  287. Paul, there were links to BBC articles from this year showing Trump was correct. With the exception the article said 10.4% and Trump only said 10% so the anti Trumpers will probably still call it a lie.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  288. How is the new policy still not zero tolerance? They are still being detained at the border.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  289. Obama detained immigrants at the border, too, but let them stay with their families and did not file criminal charges. Instead, most were released with instructions to appear for immigration hearings later.

    Zero tolerance means criminal charges for illegal entry along with immigration consequences. If someone is charged with a crime, they enter the criminal justice system — not the immigration system — and we cannot put uncharged children in the criminal justice system.

    Q!’s solution is to bail everyone out immediately from the criminal justice system and reunite them with their families in the immigration system. Normally things don’t work that way or that quickly. It takes time to process people charged with crimes and check backgrounds, identities, and records. We don’t want to reunite people who may not be related or who have criminal records.

    DRJ (15874d)

  290. In other words, detaining at the border is an immigration function. Charging them with the crime of illegal entry is what zero tolerance means, not just detaining people.

    DRJ (15874d)

  291. @299

    The 10.4% number only looks at a single German district, not the country overall.

    Davethulhu (7e7722)

  292. I have a feeling this could cost Sessions his job. He has a good goal but did not seem to think through how this should be implemented.

    I wonder if the Administration is generating policy without talking to frontline people? I see why that might happen — because they probably don’t trust government employees — but this will keep happening if they think planning is unnecessary. (They certainly didn’t learn from the travel ban.) It reminds me of the Louisiana Governor’s and New Orleans Mayor’s responses to Hurricane Katrina. Good intentions aren’t enough.

    DRJ (15874d)

  293. Paul, there were links to BBC articles from this year showing Trump was correct.

    The data Trump and Reuters used are out of date. From the DDID link:

    Meanwhile, the German government reports that crime dropped to a 25-year low in 2017.

    Also in 2017, the foreign population in Germany grew by 5.7%.
    Look, Trump said that “crime” went up, and he was fact-checked. He didn’t say “violent crime” or “refugee crime” or qualify his statements in any other way, and I think it’s important that a president is measured by what he actually says and what he actually does.

    Paul Montagu (54c2a3)

  294. Tell you what, why don’t you conduct an experiment for me. Walk up to random people on the street and call them jerks. Then tell me what that proves. Because, oh look, dictionaries don’t call the word “jerk” offensive. It must mean it’s ok to call people jerks, right?

    Then tell me about the courage of your convictions.

    That makes no sense Mr. Anonymous Person.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  295. What you write is quite true, Patterico. When our children were young, they needed long-term medications that we could not legally buy without a prescription.

    kissmanga (82bd05)


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