Patterico's Pontifications

5/21/2018

Trump: How Come Kim Jong-un Is Raining on My Nobel?

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:53 am

As President Trump prepares to meet with President Moon Jae-in of South Korea tomorrow, the New York Times reports that Trump is rattled by North Korea’s recent statements that they will never denuclearize in return for aid:

Mr. Trump was both surprised and angered by a statement issued on Wednesday by the North’s chief nuclear negotiator, who declared that the country would never trade away its nuclear weapons capability in exchange for economic aid, administration officials said. The statement, while a highly familiar tactic by the North, represented a jarring shift in tone after weeks of conciliatory gestures.

On Thursday and Friday, Mr. Trump peppered aides with questions about the wisdom of proceeding, and on Saturday night he called President Moon Jae-in of South Korea to ask why the North’s public statement seemed to contradict the private assurances that Mr. Moon had conveyed after he met Kim Jong-un, the 35-year-old dictator of the North, at the Demilitarized Zone in late April.

There’s a fella on Twitter named Robert Kelly, a political science professor who lives in South Korea, who has some ideas about why Moon might have given Trump a rosy picture of what a summit could accomplish:

The whole thread is worth reading. Kelly goes on to say, regarding Moon’s suggestion that Trump deserves a Nobel Peace Prize: “It is an open secret in Korea that this was just flattering Trump to prevent him from starting a war. No one actually believes it. My students & colleagues laugh at the suggestion.” He says nobody thought the West would take it seriously.

By the way, Kelly is the guy who was on the BBC when his daughter hilariously stomped into the room and marched around in the background. Remember that?

Trump may not be a reader, but at least he can control his daughter, amirite? I mean, you’re not going to see Trump’s daughter busting in the door and taking over at inappropriate times the way you just saw happen with Kelly.

Someone should do one of those videos where you take Trump’s face and put it on someone else’s body, and redo that video to make it Trump stomping around in the background. Free idea, Trump superfans! I’ve also prepared your retort to the next passage from the NYT article:

The aides are also concerned about what kind of grasp Mr. Trump has on the details of the North Korea program, and what he must insist upon as the key components of denuclearization. Mr. Moon and his aides reported that Mr. Kim seemed highly conversant with all elements of the program when the two men met, and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has made similar comments about Mr. Kim, based on his two meetings with him in Pyongyang, the North’s capital.

But aides who have recently left the administration say Mr. Trump has resisted the kind of detailed briefings about enrichment capabilities, plutonium reprocessing, nuclear weapons production and missile programs that Mr. Obama and President George W. Bush regularly sat through.

YOUR RETORT: Knowledge is overrated! Bush and Obama were informed, and look where it got them! We need a guy who doesn’t care about the details, but who can go in and Art of the Deal those mother[we regret that we need to bleep half of this word]s into oblivion!

It writes itself. In fact, I can easily keep it going.

Michael Green, a professor at Georgetown University and a leading expert on Asia at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, wrote in Foreign Affairs that Mr. Kim was looking for something much larger than Mr. Trump was.

“Trump may be preparing for the wrong game: a two-player round of checkers when Kim is steeling for a multiplayer two-board chess match,” he wrote. “On one board will be the future of North Korea’s nuclear weapons programs, what Trump came to negotiate. On the other will be what Kim and the other participants know is also crucially at stake: the future of geopolitics in northeast Asia.” Mr. Kim sees himself as a player in that game long after the Trump administration is over.

YOUR RETORT: Pfffft. How many dimensions are these chess games Kim is playing, “Professor” Green? Two, you say? Three, at most? Watch Chairman Un‘s head spin when he starts to realize that Trump is playing [off camera: Mr. Adams! Hey, Scott? How many dimensions is the chess game Trump is playing? OK, thanks!] fifty-nine dimensional chess!

In all seriousness, the problem is intractable. Prof. Kelly may not know much about keeping his daughter under control when he’s on the teevee, but he knows that Trump can be manipulated due to his desire to get the Nobel Peace Prize — a high honor previously awarded to such peace-loving luminaries as Barack Obama and Yasser Arafat.

Mr. Trump’s aides have grown concerned that the president — who has said that “everyone thinks” he deserves a Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts — has signaled that he wants the summit meeting too much. The aides also worry that Mr. Kim, sensing the president’s eagerness, is prepared to offer assurances that will fade over time.

NO WAY!

The likeliest scenario is an agreement that allows Trump to declare victory, lifts sanctions, and accomplishes nothing verifiable. That’s not progress, but Moon may see it as a better alternative than what looked likely in the days of presidential tweets about “Little Rocket Man.”

Me, I think having an uninformed child representing us is a grand idea. And the people hardest hit, when Trump gets a deal that Obama and Bush could only dream of, will be the damn NeverTrumpers.

[Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.]

356 Responses to “Trump: How Come Kim Jong-un Is Raining on My Nobel?”

  1. lol wouldn’t it be hilarious if our tranny-trash mattis military had to fight a real war for a change

    i bet there’s not a single pair of dry panties in the pentagon

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  2. the same folks that got north korea wrong for the last 25 years

    http://www.scotusblog.com/2018/05/live-blog-of-orders-and-opinions-33/

    narciso (d1f714)

  3. Way back in the 90s it was widely known in real estate circles that Trump always telegraphed his interests and thus usually overpaid for his properties. He’s doing the same now in international negotiations.

    NCMounrainGirl (e7df5e)

  4. GreyLady goes down…

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  5. Yes yes the important thing is President Trump’s engaged on the most important national security issues facing America.

    Food stamp ignored North Korea for 8 years and let them get nuclear weapon bombs and weaponize them to where they could easily wipe out a carrier group poof where did our aircraft carrier go lol.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  6. The New York Times? That reliable bastion of disinterested, accurate and honest news on Trump?

    Fred Z (a1ca8c)

  7. Patterico… a tool of the NYT? Say it ain’t so.

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  8. I don’t believe the mistake was in accepting the offer for a summit. Dealing with whack jobs is necessarily risky.

    The error was in trumpeting this development as an enormous advance. Had DJT tamped down expectations, he would be more free to take a hard line, or do a Reagan (walk out).

    I also do not credit Un. This was orchestrated by the PRC. By the bye…what tariffs?

    Ed from SFV (b95465)

  9. Not surprised by the NK behavior. Standard Soviet negotiation style.

    What is Trump’s best next move? Just move on from this whole thing (not have meeting and let NK sit; try to reduce public discussion)?

    Anonymous (d41cee)

  10. Trump tweet, “Mike Pompeo met with Kim Jong Un in North Korea last week. Meeting went very smoothly and a good relationship was formed. Details of Summit are being worked out now. Denuclearization will be a great thing for World, but also for North Korea!”

    Then FoxNews declares the world’s greatest threat practically solved. Trump edges up in the polls. The Biff Tannen approach was brilliantly effective.

    But, I thought it was basic International Negotiations 101….. Don’t show your hand. Don’t overpromise. Don’t look desperate. Know your material. And know your opponent and his history. Nope. Old school. Who needs that stuff when you have twitter?

    Coming soon…. “The Art of the Dupe” by John Barron.

    noel (b4d580)

  11. Trump’s mission has been accomplished. He got what he wanted — he made himself look good. His approval rating went up. He had people nominating him for the Nobel Peace Prize. He won! Now, when is that next rally for some close to home mami cariño?

    nk (dbc370)

  12. President Trump looks so good cause he does the foreign policy to where the results are undeniably favorable.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  13. North Korea is dishonest. Not surprising. So was the Soviet Union. Just need to pressure them and make them realize what’s in their best interest is to work with us and South Korea.

    Now, while we are distracted, the left is admitting what they’ve always wanted, to take away our right to self defense and keep us under their modern day Red Guard.

    https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a20747292/nra-guns-take-them-away/

    NJRob (b00189)

  14. so dr. Kelley would rather have the status quo, which means artillery could rain down on him at any time?

    narciso (d1f714)

  15. NYT sourcing:

    …aides who have recently left the administration…

    In other words, Fake News.

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  16. What Trump wants is less important than what China wants. If China believes a denuclearized North Korea trading freely with its neighbors free from the threat of US led military invasion is good for China’s 21st century interests then there’s a deal to be made. Otherwise, nothing changes. South Korea may want peace with the North but it doesn’t want the pains that Germany experienced during reunification nor does it want a return to war. North Korea’s usefulness to China as the biggest problem in the neighborhood is in conflict with China’s military expansion in international waters of the S China Sea. The North Korean regime doesn’t deserve the peace and security deal it’s being offered in exchange for total, verifiable denuclearization but the alternative is equally unpalatable.

    crazy (5c5b07)

  17. More from Robert Kelly:

    All in all, Obama’s legacy here is a good one – a B+ if we had to give a grade. He pulled the US toward the world’s most vibrant region. He firmed up alliances and relationships on the skids after Bush’s divisive presidency. He held a reasonable line with challengers like China and North Korea, responding when necessary but not taking unnecessary chances, as Trump already seems to be doing. He pushed prosperity-enhancing trade deals, which Asia’s mercantilist elites rarely propose themselves. This was a business-like foreign policy for a business-like presidency. Hardly inspirational, but given Bush’s divisive ideological posturing and Trump’s reckless theatricality, I bet historians will see Obama’s mature presidency as a high point for US relations with the region.

    https://asiansecurityblog.wordpress.com/2017/02/06/obama-did-about-as-well-in-e-asia-as-could-be-expected-one-last-defense-of-strategic-patience/

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  18. Even more:

    Why I Voted for Barack Obama Today

    1. The Tea Party Scares Me

    2. I don’t really know what Romney wants to do with the presidency.

    3. I am very uncomfortable giving the POTUS to a creature of Wall Street just 3 years after the Great Recession.

    4.Romney’s foreign policy team is filled with neocons, and I think he’ll start a war with Iran.

    5. The gridlock-producing, scorched-earth GOP opposition to Obama should not be rewarded.

    https://asiansecurityblog.wordpress.com/2012/11/06/why-i-voted-for-barack-obama-today/

    He doesn’t have a built in bias, does he?

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  19. Book it, it’s Gold!

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  20. BUDuh – your more like Margerine or Olio.

    mg (9e54f8)

  21. That reporter btw was the one who was leaked at least one of the Iraq war plans, and the 2007 nie on Iran, probably by Paul pillar himself.

    narciso (d1f714)

  22. Perhaps there’s been a radical change in the the worldview of some…

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  23. All a bunch of Mr. Inside-Outski’s… like some goddamn Bolsheviks picking up their orders from Un Central. They think they’re so goddamn smart. Except they ain’t.

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  24. he’s got the whole whirl in his hands Trump’s got the whole whirl in his hands

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  25. It was hilarious watching the Trump fans boast about Trump’s success with North Korea prematurely. Kinda like Happyfeet upthread (which is probably satire).

    Obviously we’ll have to see what kind of deal he reaches before we know if it’s worth anything, but we know from experience that no deal will be honored by either side. Trump’s a serial fraud, proven time and again, and so is Kim. Anyone who hesitates to agree with that has zero credibility.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  26. hey didn’t we have an air craft carrier thingy here on the map?

    yes general we sure did

    well what happened to it

    it got blowed up sir! Yup. It got blowed up with a nuclear bomb weapon this morning.

    Oh. Well that’s no good we should’ve taken steps to prevent that is my feeling.

    Yes sir we should’ve but food stamp just sat on his ass until they had the nuclear bomb weapons and it was too late.

    Oh. Well no use crying over spilt milk.

    Yes sir no use at all but that was a really fun carrier and I heard it cost like a million dollars.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  27. Hillary’s in the wings, Dustin! Keep hope alive!

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  28. I doubt that this is entirely Trump’s show. In any event it was necessary for Trump to be willing to meet and talk, because “jaw-jaw beats war-war”. If the Norks back out, and there is no verification of their supposed disarmament, having been willing to talk will make the next steps easier than otherwise.

    I remain convinced that NK will never give up their nukes willingly, that they continue to work towards breakout, and that only military solutions are possible. And if we end up going down that road, reunification under the South must be the war goal.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  29. If peace breaks out,the Nobel will go to Kim, having made peace, despite the evil Trump. I have a better chance at the Nobel than Trump does,

    Kevin M (752a26)

  30. 30, 31… yes, agree.

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  31. Some question why former allies keep feeding the Beast… https://www.hollywoodintoto.com/final-year-reviews-hbo/

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  32. “1. The Tea Party Scares Me”

    They scared some people enough to have the IRS target them, but most people thought that a reason to vote the other way.

    harkin (2fa2ca)

  33. Targeting the Tea Party by the IRS was outrageous abuse of power. So, tell me again, why Jeff Bezos and Amazon targeting…. is not?

    noel (b4d580)

  34. Colonel Haiku, re #8, no not a tool of the NYT, but a man so annoyed he’ll use any club he can find to bash the source of his annoyance. The enemy of his enemy …

    Fred Z (a1ca8c)

  35. Lets see a group of concerned citizen, vs the CEO of one of the more powerful corporations on the planat. Mm a poser.

    narciso (d1f714)

  36. I see. So an enemies list that consists mostly of powerful individuals/companies vs. powerful groups….. is OK?

    noel (b4d580)

  37. So, tell me again, why Jeff Bezos and Amazon targeting…. is not?

    Monopoly 101: Never get on the wrong side of government if you want them looking the other way.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  38. And, if you want to tell Trump that government never plays favorites among businesses, he’ll point you to the NY city council. And maybe Chick-Fil-A.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  39. Well then, maybe the next Administration will take a good look at Trump’s taxes/finances? Since he broke his promise to do so after that audit was finished. Fair enough? Then the Koch Brothers? Adelstein?

    And, as a bonus, when the actual administrative state is after them, you will no longer need to conjure up those “Deep State” conspiracies.

    Lock them up! America is great again.

    noel (b4d580)

  40. Translation, moon sees the South Korean state more starkly then he does the Kim dynasty.

    narciso (a3accd)

  41. @ Haiku, who wrote (#):

    Patterico… a tool of the NYT? Say it ain’t so.

    I say it isn’t so, and I say you’re a tool (which is a much nicer term than the one I want to use) for coming to his blog and writing that, Haiku.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  42. @ Haiku, who wrote (#):

    Patterico… a tool of the NYT? Say it ain’t so.

    I say it isn’t so, and I say you’re a tool (which is a much nicer term than the one I want to use) for coming to his blog and writing that, Haiku.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  43. @ Haiku, who wrote (#):

    Patterico… a tool of the NYT? Say it ain’t so.

    I say it isn’t so, and I say you’re a tool (which is a much nicer term than the one I want to use) for coming to his blog and writing that, Haiku.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  44. Some sort of internet hiccup there; I only posted that comment once, but it does deserve repetition.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  45. Noel proving those conservative boni fides again.

    NJRob (b00189)

  46. He,was an exile from the north, somewhat like Merkel was from the east, but he had a more jaundiced view of his adopted land.

    narciso (a3accd)

  47. President Trump has other stuff he’s doing what’s very good for the peaceful efforts not just North Korea. For example he’s doing Iran and Venezuela and other countries as well.

    And the end result is a whole buttload of peace.

    That’s why he should get the reward not just cause of North Korea.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  48. Targeting the Tea Party by the IRS was outrageous abuse of power. So, tell me again, why Jeff Bezos and Amazon targeting…. is not?”

    It is – same with Facebook filtering conservative views or making them disappear. Plus you can apply abuse of power to every media outlet fanning the Russian Collusion fake news dumpster fire.

    Btw – Obama promised to get to the bottom of IRS abuse and hold those responsible accountable……and if you like your plan you can keep your plan, and the price will go down!

    harkin (2fa2ca)

  49. Beldar… funny stuff, thx.

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  50. Felt you could use this after that fit, Beldar… https://amzn.to/2rTxcy8

    Be sure to use the widget on the right!

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  51. “Trump may not be a reader”

    Except he does read, as reported by multiple mainstream sources that even listed specifically what he reads on a daily basis. Further their are reports that he uses a black sharpie to highlight articles he wants to respond to and gives them to aids.

    But when you invest so much in a smear why let something as meaningless as the truth ruin it.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  52. he reads beautifully

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  53. Dustin @ 27. Obviously we’ll have to see what kind of deal he reaches before we know if it’s worth anything, but we know from experience that no deal will be honored by either side. Trump’s a serial fraud, proven time and again, and so is Kim.

    Exactly. Kim will be looking to get as much as he can up front and give as little as possible because 1) he has no intention of keeping any deal and 2) no expectation that Trump will keep any deal, and 3) the expectation that if he Qaddafis and gives up his nukes and missiles he will be Qaddafied is very real.

    nk (dbc370)

  54. Obama is the one who broke US deals. Kim knows that Trump may make and keep a deal, but all US deals come with “sell by” dates that correspond to changes in administrations.

    Steveg (af4813)

  55. Hillary’s in the wings, Dustin! Keep hope alive!

    Colonel Haiku

    Oh, I think the election was a while ago and we can stop with the binary choice stuff. Just admit I was right about Trump all along. He promised us he would ‘end’ ISIS, Obamacare, and deficits by now. He has completely failed at his stated objectives, and the main reason is that he can’t make a deal.

    The main reason he can’t make a deal is that no one can trust him. Same reason no one really wants to make a deal with Kim, except huge suckers or people with fake purposes (like Trump’s need for a nobel peace prize because of his bizarre fixation on Obama).

    If all you’ve got is ‘HILLARY HILLARY HILLARY’ that’s really just admitting to us that you’ve got no defense. Trump’s the guy who loves Hillary, not me. Remember? I compared Trump to Hillary as an insult. This isn’t complicated.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  56. Kim knows that Trump may make and keep a deal

    SteveG, how many times has Trump filed for bankruptcy, or settled a fraud lawsuit? He’s broken deals so many times even his fans can’t keep count. Why worship a man like this? Because he’s a politican leader of your party? That’s silly.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  57. the expectation that if he Qaddafis and gives up his nukes and missiles he will be Qaddafied is very real.

    nk

    This is 100% true as well. The democrats ruined George W Bush’s diplomatic success by destroying a regime that actually played ball with disarmament. And Dubya will always seem like the better president, and man, compared against Trump. He just got the job done. Can you imagine how horrible Trump would be if we faced a disaster like 9/11?

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  58. 64. I think that Trump’s response to another 9/11 would be like many of his policy successes so far: It would depend heavily on the quality of advisors he surrounds himself with.

    And W. didn’t exactly clothe himself in glory as a conservative anyway. We got the TSA under his watch, and he signed Medicare Part D into existence. So there is that.

    Gryph (08c844)

  59. nobody could respond to 9/11 more disastrously than idiot Bush did

    that was quite the spectacle

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  60. And W. didn’t exactly clothe himself in glory as a conservative anyway.

    Domestic spending went up, and we lost a lot of freedom. Compared to Trump or Obama he was quite conservative.

    TSA is indeed a pretty massive mistake. Federalizing that aspect did not improve a thing, and I don’t know why anyone thought it would.

    Bush did indeed have some awesome accomplishments. He did indeed avoid any truly awful overreaction to 9/11. He freed Iraq and created a democracy, and Obama’s failure to do his part does not diminish Bush’s accomplishment. This effort of course yielded the intel that led to Osama Bin Laden, though I doubt most Americans really understand this. Bush also got Libya to abandon his nuclear weapons program.

    I’d happily trade Trump for Bush.

    nobody could respond to 9/11 more disastrously than idiot Bush did

    LOL, that’s basically how (Hillary donor) Trump describes the ‘worst president in American history.’ It’s amazing that even one Republican supported Trump in the primaries. Suckers every single one of them.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  61. All it would take to get the Democrats to change their minds about MS-13 would be to find a Republican member of MS-13… they’d be bringin’ The H8.

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  62. Dustin
    I must have been unclear. “May” was used on purpose.

    I’m more curious about this though:”Why worship a man like this? Because he’s a political leader of your party? That’s silly”
    How’d you get that?

    Trump is the leader of my country and I very much want him to do the best for us he can.
    That isn’t worship and it’s not silly. 2016 gave us a choice between two very flawed candidates. My expectations of Trump were set pretty low initially and I still try to treat everything Trump says with a wait and see approach

    Steveg (af4813)

  63. Dustin, you are the person who seriously considered voting for Hillary Clinton as some sort of half-assed protest against the Republican candidate.

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  64. So you see the tightrope trump deals with, Abe whose family tie complicates the Korean relations to be charitable, and jaw in, who actually puts more trust in the north Korean than in his own country, for different reasons

    narciso (d1f714)

  65. 60… your take being characterized as “silly” by Dustin, Steveg, is a sign that you are driving on the right side of the road.

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  66. It’s obviously the last call at the Collusion Bar n’ Grill and the Democrats, their media operatives and #NeverTrump are grasping at straws.

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  67. The deficit in every year of the Dubya administration was a smaller percentage of GDP than in the budget Trump signed this year. Significantly less in several years (only 1/3 as large in 2007).

    Dave (b08217)

  68. @ Dustin & nk, re #64:

    the expectation that if he Qaddafis and gives up his nukes and missiles he will be Qaddafied is very real.

    nk

    This is 100% true as well. The democrats ruined George W Bush’s diplomatic success by destroying a regime that actually played ball with disarmament.

    I agree with you both. Our allies, including the Brits and the French, have interests that differ from ours, and sometimes when they pursue what they perceive to be in their interests, we need to refuse to go along. For the life of me, I can see no reason why the Brits and French got their (presumably Belgian lace) knickers in a knot to overthrow Kadafi after he was back in a non-nuclear box — except that they’d very much like some sweet deals on Libyan oil and natural gas. Or maybe it was a reflexive spasm of dormant colonialism on their parts. But the Libya kinectic engagement aka regime-change war, in which Obama famously led from behind, seemed to me very, very reminiscent of the Brits’ & Frenchies’ joint caper against Gamal Nasser when they seized the Suez Canal. They actively hid that from Ike, who was recovering from a heart attack at the time, and they expected they could pull the U.S. along with them by presenting us with a fait accompli. Except Ike didn’t go along, and to the contrary, very vocally opposed them, directly resulting in the defenestration of Anthony Eden as PM.

    Obama, though, did exactly what Ike refused to do — back them in an undeclared war, fought for no compelling reason, no plan for the future, and, as both Dustin & nk have pointed out, very bad consequences for the ability of any western leaders to deal with renegade regimes in the future. And now the world will suffer.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  69. Haiku, how many dozens and dozens of posts has our host written about media bias? How much of his time has he devoted, along with money out of his pocket, to create a community here in which that can be discussed intelligently, even by people who disagree on the merits of different policy issues or judgments?

    My disgust at your accusation of him — as a tool of the NYT, of all the ridiculous things — is in inverse proportion to my respect for our host’s efforts over many years. And I think he’s done, and continues to do, a helluva good job, and an honest job. I take offense at your insult on his behalf, whether he takes offense or not. And I am quite sure I’m not the only reader here who’s offended on his behalf as well.

    You beclown yourself, sir.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  70. I think we dodged a bullet on suez, had wing commander khaddam executed passer (he was a double agent) the brotherhood would have been put in charge, notable tariq ramadans father, who in turn was hassan Al bana

    narciso (d1f714)

  71. Mr. Colonel’s a good person that’s number one

    I think the focus of his statement is on how NYT fake news is very untrustworthy

    you can’t trust them cause they lie a lot and make crap up

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  72. Dustin, you are the person who seriously considered voting for Hillary Clinton as some sort of half-assed protest against the Republican candidate.

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd) — 5/21/2018 @ 3:02 pm

    Yeah, I had a hard time distinguishing between Trump, a man who adores Hillary and supports her policies, and Hillary herself. What’s your point? Time proved me right, didn’t it? All those cries of ‘lock her up’ were for suckers, and Trump is the reason Hillary has never seen justice. Trump’s efforts with North Korea are essentially identical to a Clinton administration’s. The deficit is probably worse (certainly worse than Bill Clinton’s record), Obamacare is still around either way.

    The only different is the appointments, a fact I’ve readily conceded because unlike you, I really do care about truth. You only care about twisting it to defend the Team R guy of the day, and that leads you to insult a lot of good people. You’d be a great guy if you weren’t a partisan, but you are.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  73. No, hatefulfeet, the focus of Haiku’s insult was Patterico. Next, in his typical and cowardly passive-aggressive way, Haiku will defend himself, saying he was “just askin'” or some such load of crap, rather than calling Patterico a “tool of the NYT.” I call bullsh!t on that preemptively.

    I can’t shame the shameless. But I’m damned sure going to enjoy trying.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  74. Steveg,

    Trump’s a well known fraud. That’s not a controversial statement. He’s literally paid out when accused of fraud. It’s just a fact. He’s reneged on so many deals, not only the ‘lock her up’ Hillary chant, but literal serial bankruptcy. Your claim that people trust his deals is silly. If your intention was to be satire of a Trump shill, it did fly over my head and I apologize because you really came across like a bona fide Trump shill rather than someone mocking those suckers.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  75. Patterico, I think you are correct that you can get ALOT out of the President Trump by flattering him. I also believe that if this were simply about the APPEARANCE of a diplomatic victory, we would’ve already seen a lifting of the NoKo sanctions. After the hostage release, the shuttering of the nuclear test facility (even though I suspect THAT is more to do with the mountain collapse) and the “warmer” tone of communications prior to this most recent hiccup. My guess is that the SoS, NSA and CoS are the tactical executioners of the policy and that the President is simply the blunt instrument to set the table. It’s the old Crazy man game that Nixon and Kissinger ran.

    I may not trust the Presidents judgement in regards to foreign policy. However; I have a lot of faith in Pompeo and Bolton (who I believe has always been incorrectly characterized as a neo-con war hawk) to ensure that whatever deal we end up getting out of this negotiation will advance American National Interests in the region.

    Carlton (20b9c8)

  76. Mr. Haiku did not mean an insult he was just saying as to how people should be very circumspect about adducing material from NYT fake news

    not everything has to be all drama drama drama all the time sometimes a pinata is just a pinata

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  77. So we have a reporter who has been the recipient of classified info, the Iraq war plan, the stuixtnet (the one they investigated general Hayden for) the dubiously source 2007 nie on Iran, so he relays unanonymous accounts of supposed trump aides, add to that you have a committed nevertrumper, and ally of the bush clan (whose trackrecord on Korea has been less than optimum. Then you have an all out Obama acolyte in professor Kelley, who doesn’t realize how dangerous Obama’s policies have been in this circumstance.

    narciso (d1f714)

  78. and President Trump is not a fraud that’s number one Mr. Dustin

    he’s a darn good president and guess what

    guess what

    guess what else

    he’s grown in office a tremendous amount as he becomes the president God wants him to be for us

    that means he has an eye both on honoring the Lord through his work and an eye on history too!

    as humble as he is magnificent, I could not be prouder to call this man my President

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  79. 80… I stand by what I wrote, Beldar.

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  80. If you don’t like it, too bad. There’s some of what you write I like and some other stuff I think is tediously banal. I get over it.

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  81. we should have a dance-off

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  82. 76.

    I’m pretty sure now

    Haiku is on Pat’s block list
    He’s just not worth it

    Gryph (08c844)

  83. One would think that people would know by now that the NYT has an extremely leftward tilt.

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  84. But hey, ymmv and all that.

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  85. Its not merely that coronello, this account sets off more flags than the UN color guard,

    narciso (d1f714)

  86. The biased Mr. Kelly has been outed in this thread. Why believe anything he says?

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  87. Yes, I know, narciso. So much more.

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  88. @ Haiku: How many times have you, personally, gotten a major media outlet like the NYT or LAT or a major TV network to issue a correction?

    Point us to one.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  89. Now, while we are distracted, the left is admitting what they’ve always wanted, to take away our right to self defense and keep us under their modern day Red Guard.

    https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a20747292/nra-guns-take-them-away/

    NJRob (b00189) — 5/21/2018 @ 8:50 am

    Even less successful negotiators.

    Pinandpuller (c109a4)

  90. Now we’ve seen criticism about the contours of this deal, ie from Gordon Chang, for instance.

    narciso (d1f714)

  91. Dustin

    I admit that by now I had expected Trump would have renditioned Hillary off to a black site located under Yap Atoll

    Steveg (af4813)

  92. @ Haiku, you say (#86) that you “stand by what [you] wrote.”

    Will you stand by the implied insult, and make it explicit? Will you concede that in sum and substance, your comment at #8 was not a question asked in good faith, but rather, an accusation that Patterico is “tool of the NYT”?

    Or will you equivocate and deflect and say something cowardly like, “it stands for itself” or “you can read it however you like”? Because that’s what I expect you to do. Surprise us.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  93. What I also suspect is that it was Tillerson who brought Kim Jong Un to the table, and now that he’s gone, his replacement with a lightweight like Pompeo and a has-been like Bolton has encouraged Kim to play hardball possibly thinking that the two factotums will accept anything provided they can put a sheen on it that makes Trump look good.

    nk (dbc370)

  94. 95… that would be like drinking from a firehose, Beldar. Like that would make any difference. They receive my responses when I share my thoughts about their veracity with each solicitation they send asking me to subscribe to that rag. They know their demographic, it’s certainly not anyone on the right.

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  95. Trump lies to get news media off his back, yet is gobsmacked when Kim Jung Un lies to get international hounds off his back? Interesting study in human nature there. I guess this must be his first rodeo with a foreign manipulator. Trump’s anxiousness for success is so transparent that manipulators know which button to push to silence him without victory: make him look like a winner.

    And, by the way, the only guy whose name belongs in the same sentence with “50 dimensional chess” is Ted Cruz. If he were president, the Right wouldn’t have to defend his choices by labeling them as high-level chess moves, because the public would already have noticed that they were.

    LJ (445277)

  96. slobby fat-ass Stefan had to become ambassador to protect Trump more better Mr. narciso

    from ninjas and sh!t

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  97. In a different era, this would have been frisked within an inch of the right margin, instead of been taken as substantive analysis.

    narciso (d1f714)

  98. Would Ted Cruz have won the popular vote, LJ?

    Californians for Cruz?

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  99. Trump fans who compare all conservative Trump critics to democrats, NYT tools, and Hillary supporters are being dishonest. But they know that’s going to change the subject from Trump to defending Patterico or whoever from this dumb accusation.

    I offered a list of Trump’s promises he has clearly failed at, and was told ‘but you couldn’t tell Trump from Hillary’. that’s true. Conservatives have a hard time distinguishing a long time Hillary supporter from Hillary herself, but it’s also irrelevant. It’s trolling from hacks who know nothing but trolling because they live on the internet.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  100. Beldar, I will tell you to take a flying roger at a rolling donut 🍩 that’s what I’ll do. My “insult” as you put it is surely less outrageous than the insults hurled by some – including you – at folks who support the POTUS a little more than some care for.

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  101. ) the expectation that if he Qaddafis and gives up his nukes and missiles he will be Qaddafied is very real.

    nk (dbc370) — 5/21/2018 @ 2:18 pm

    Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

    Pinandpuller (c109a4)

  102. Pompeo is a much stringer candidate than Powell or rice, haspels more than tenet, who w should have replace forthwith, goes had certain gravitas but challenge the establishment forces, and they struck back. Hayden learned his lesson, plus his pre 9/11 handling left something to be desired.

    narciso (d1f714)

  103. And has anybody else noticed that the China tariffs have been “suspended”?

    nk (dbc370)

  104. There we go. The deflection. It’s only an insult “as [I] put it.” Plus I’m worse. And we’re disloyal to Trump.

    Thanks, my point is made.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  105. I hadn’t noticed that, nk. Did China comply with a request from the US?

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  106. Meanwhile…..

    “Earlier this month, a male-to-female transgender filed a $50,000 human rights complaint after a Muslim woman refused to perform a Brazilian wax on his genitals. The unnamed transgender person has repeatedly claimed that he called inquiring about a leg wax, but the owner of Mad Wax, the waxing studio based in Windsor, Ontario, Canada, insisted the request clearly indicated his interest in a genital wax.

    “She never once asked for a leg wax [from] us,” Mad Wax manager, president, and CEO Jason Carruthers told PJ Media. “She said, ‘Women have p_nises and women have b_lls and if your staff is not comfortable then they can look for another job.’ That is clearly referring to a brazilian wax, which involves the genitals.”

    Carruthers added that the transgender complainant “only mentioned ‘leg wax’ after the story got out. My guess is she was embarrassed to admit she wanted a Brazilian.”

    The female Muslim employee refused to provide the service, based on her religious convictions not to physically touch a man outside her family.“

    https://pjmedia.com/trending/transgender-files-50k-complaint-after-muslim-woman-refuses-to-wax-genitals/

    Good thing the employee is not a Christian or this would probably be considered a hate crime.

    harkin (2fa2ca)

  107. Tillerboobs was a spectacular failure not just as Secretary of State but as a man

    he showed himself to be a vile and petty and unbalanced person with no integrity: an untrustworthy person

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  108. Jason sure has a lot of titles for somebody what denudes gonads for a living

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  109. Our Captain’s been thoroughly briefed: he watches lots of the TeeVee and he’s ready for a meetin’ w/Moon…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9tMalvxiiM

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  110. #106
    While not addressed to me, I think Senator Cruz would’ve won more of the NT and establishment right’s votes in states that wouldn’t have made a difference in the electoral college. In other words, PA, MI and OH would’ve gone to Hilary and we would be discussing how to shift the “Republican Brand” that Senator Cruz represents into these purple states.

    There would be lots of (I’m sure we’ll written) think pieces from Reihan Salaam, Rosa Douthat and Kevin Williamson about how to attract disaffected blue dog Democrats and former Obama voters with some combination of 3rd way tax credits and other “conservative” wealth transfer programs.

    Carlton (20b9c8)

  111. Do we want a trade war or even a real one, if we can exact concessions by that posture, this is the way the game is played. For 35 years round numbers there Hes been rampant deibduratialuzation, and that has had significant political social ascwell as economic dislocation.

    narciso (d1f714)

  112. (like Trump’s need for a nobel peace prize because of his bizarre fixation on Obama).

    Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/21/2018 @ 2:36 pm

    To be fair, Obama called him out at the Correspondents Dinner: Who’s Laughing Now

    Pinandpuller (c109a4)

  113. In case there are new readers to this blog trying to follow this:

    Our host, who pays for the bandwidth and upkeep to permit us to comment here, has been one of the most vocal and effective critics of press bias of anyone writing on the internet, going back to the beginnings of this blog in 2003. He not only exposes their bias, he quite often has made them correct themselves in particular, and particularly egregious, examples.

    If you believe that there needs to be pushback from the right against media bias, you believe in our host’s mission.

    But Haiku feels perfectly entitled to come here and insult him as being a “tool of the NYT,” without anything remotely approaching a factual basis or logical argument, in eager service of his cult leader, Donald J. Trump.

    I encourage any newcomers to Google-search on the phrase “Dog Trainer” if you want to get just a hint of how outrageous this insult is, and how utterly without decency the insulter is in hurling it.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  114. The biased Mr. Kelly has been outed in this thread. Why believe anything he says?

    “I know Hillary and I think she’d make a great president” – Donald Trump

    Right back atcha, big fella.

    Dave (445e97)

  115. Good thing the employee is not a Christian or this would probably be considered a hate crime.

    harkin (2fa2ca) — 5/21/2018 @ 5:20 pm

    The Hirl from Ipanema.

    Pinandpuller (c109a4)

  116. Do we want to go to war, currently their test facilities are offline, but that may nit be a permanent state of affairs.

    narciso (d1f714)

  117. 112… says you, Captain Lickspittle.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  118. if the incompetent US military were ready to go to war against North Korea Meghan’s loathsome war-mongering coward daddy would’ve lobbied for it til it happened

    the truth is the corrupt tranny-trash US military isn’t up to the job

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  119. “The NYT tilts leftward” is not even an attempt to counterargue what Pat is saying here. It’s an out-of-hand dismissal that would get you eaten alive by the sharks at the Oxford Union.

    Gryph (08c844)

  120. Do you rest your case now, counselor? What a pompous windbag.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  121. i like Mr. Colonel he draws fine distinctions in this case he casts a jaundiced eye upon the trustworthiness of the NYT fake news

    who know what tomorrow will bring but for tonight we have a lot to think about

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  122. One if the acolytes of the church of arms control here:

    https://www.38north.org/2010/03/how-a-q-khan-helped-distort-america%E2%80%99s-dprk-policy/

    narciso (d1f714)

  123. Beldar’s making an important point. Patterico’s major shtick has generally been to point out bias in the media using logic and ‘rest of the story’ narratives. It’s very appealing to smart conservatives and smart liberals, which has led to a really lively discussion section, but also attracted some of the worst trolls out there.

    Haiku knows damn well Patterico is not a tool of the New York Times, but Haiku is an excellent troll and will ignore the topic of the discussion to make the some dumb attack on someone, over and over again, refusing to ever discuss a thing in good faith.

    “I know Hillary and I think she’d make a great president” – Donald Trump

    Dave, I’ll never understand why people who hate Hillary so much, like Haiku apparently, could ever support Trump so much that they must be wearing kneepads and wiping their chin afterwards. It’s really interesting.

    Would Ted Cruz have won the popular vote, LJ?

    Californians for Cruz?

    BuDuh (

    Hillary won the popular vote, so it’s clear that just about anybody could do it. Yes, Cruz would have done much better than Trump did in the last presidential election. More importantly, America would be better off right now.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  124. 128… “extremely leftward”, get it right, knob polisher.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  125. Isn’t that why Patterico encourages people to use the blocking script, Beldar?

    Maybe you can explain to newcomers how it works.

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  126. @ Carlton, who wrote (#118):

    I think Senator Cruz would’ve won more of the NT and establishment right’s votes in states that wouldn’t have made a difference in the electoral college. In other words, PA, MI and OH would’ve gone to Hilary and we would be discussing how to shift the “Republican Brand” that Senator Cruz represents into these purple states.

    That’s well put, and entirely plausible. But in a contest between the two worst (politically speaking: highest-negatives) candidates in modern American history, it’s very hard to tell the extent to which Trump won those states, as distinct from the extent to which Hillary lost them. Ultimately it’s a fun but pointless exercise, except as a reminder to both parties, perhaps, to pick better general election nominees in the future so that one party or the other can genuinely claim that its winning candidate enters office with a genuine mandate. Given the candidates in 2016, it was more certain than taxes and as certain as death that roughly half of America would absolutely, positively hate the POTUS.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  127. #106 – BuhDuh:

    Would Ted Cruz have won the popular vote, LJ?

    Californians for Cruz?

    I believe he would have. The same “anybody but Hillary” drive (and associated paranoia about her potential election) that swept the disliked Trump into office would have swept any candidate who appeared at all better than her into office. Likeability played no role because it was strictly a lesser-of-two-evils selection.

    LJ (445277)

  128. ted cruz lol

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  129. I don’t think invective is necessary or even useful in this circumstance, 25 years of bad choices have left us few options. The framework being the central one, which was not significantly revised by the subsequent administration.

    narciso (d1f714)

  130. @ BuDuh: Did that already, for any who are so inclined. Even made some educational grapics!

    Beldar (fa637a)

  131. I voted for, sent money to, worked locally for Mr. Cruz in the run up to the primary. He lost. Would he have accomplished more than Trump? Hard to say.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  132. The dismantling of nuclear test facilities seems like total scam. Countries with working nuclear arsenals don’t need to test them. Once you’ve done a sufficient number of real tests, you can validate your computer simulations and have confidence they are nearly as good as real data.

    This seems very likely the real reason for “Chairman Un”’s offer. He is doesn’t need the test facility so he wants to trade it for concessions he does.

    Dave (445e97)

  133. I thought you were going to ignore me Dustin. You are a dishonest broker that gets facts wrong. You were given several opportunities to correct your misstatements about me and refused to despite the evidence.

    I would like to welcome new visitors to take note of the blocking script and how it functions.

    http://patterico.com/2017/09/24/how-to-make-the-comments-of-annoying-commenters-disappear-from-your-screen/

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  134. The much-ballyhooed 8th Grade Mean Gurlz Speak to teh Hand Script™

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  135. Use it! You won’t be sorry.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  136. Thanks LJ.

    Likeability played no role because it was strictly a lesser-of-two-evils selection.

    I liked Trump and voted for him. All of my family and friends liked him as well and voted for him. I do not know anyone who felt they were in a lesser-of-two-evils pressure cooker.

    I did not find Cruz likeable, but he certainly would have received my lesser-of vote.

    To beat Hillary there would have to be more Cruz lesser-of votes than I can imagine due to his likeablity problem. At least that is my opinion. I cannot imagine Cruz taking the popular vote.

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  137. Tell ’em Morty sent ya!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  138. buduh,

    Are you suffering from a mental illness? At no point in this thread have I interacted with you. I responded to nk, Beldar, Haiku twice, and steveg. I generally use quotes and names so I don’t think this is unclear.

    Are you the weirdo who got really angry with me a few weeks ago? I noted you’re an hysterical troll, and asked what your previous names were on this blog (since trolls change their names here a lot). That weirdo was so outraged at my question about their history here that they spent several hours digging through many years of my comment history here. A total hypocrite weirdo.

    At any rate, I do not need a script to block trolls. I tend to just not read the discussion thread when it’s that bad. You trolls are actively damaging the success of this blog that you hate so much, so I guess you have that going for you.

    I’m totally holding my breath waiting for you to apologize for your embarrassing and stupid mistake.

    dustin (ba94b2)

  139. 147. If you haven’t started using the blocking script yet, I’d strongly encourage it. Pat and I and others here have found it incredibly liberating.

    Gryph (08c844)

  140. I voted for, sent money to, worked locally for Mr. Cruz in the run up to the primary. He lost. Would he have accomplished more than Trump? Hard to say.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 5/21/2018 @ 5:45 pm

    I’m glad you did, and I do believe you did this. I think it’s clear he couldn’t have accomplished less than Trump. Trump’s destroyed our nation’s finances even more than Obama. He’s preserved Obamacare. He’s handled foreign policy like he really is Hillary Clinton. He’s terrible. He has passed the responsibility of appointments off on some good smart people, basically people like Cruz.

    I hope we get to see a President like Cruz, an actual intellectual who sought some real change, but I think 2016 was a rare opportunity and I doubt it returns any time soon. Cruz probably couldn’t beat anybody but a truly weak candidate like Hillary. America just doesn’t dig smart people in positions of leadership.

    dustin (ba94b2)

  141. The script’s a handy tool. I wouldn’t say that Patterico encourages its use, so much as provides it for those who care to.

    Were you being slyly ironic or clueless in your suggestion, BuDuh (#134)? Do you realize that your link in #142 goes the same place as my link in #139, both of which contain long quotes from a comment I left here? I’ll take your word for it if you say you were being slyly ironic.

    I’m glad I didn’t use it today, though, because calling out Haiku’s behavior is probably the most satisfying thing I’ve done today — and I’d actually had a pretty good day already anyway — and our host ought not have to defend himself against such mean-spirited and stupid tripe.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  142. Look at the end of your 5:39, Dustin.

    Wow.

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  143. I hadn’t seen your post while I was crafting mine, Beldar.

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  144. buduh,

    You didn’t answer my question: What was your previous name here, why are you so angry I asked, and have you been diagnosed with a mental illness?

    I mean these are obviously very reasonable questions and your fury that I have asked them is a sort of answer, but I’m curious about the mentally ill on the internet. I’d love to discuss this with you, and you get the attention you obviously crave as a troll.

    dustin (ba94b2)

  145. 118 Carlton:

    While not addressed to me, I think Senator Cruz would’ve won more of the NT and establishment right’s votes in states that wouldn’t have made a difference in the electoral college. In other words, PA, MI and OH would’ve gone to Hilary and we would be discussing how to shift the “Republican Brand” that Senator Cruz represents into these purple states.

    There would be lots of (I’m sure we’ll written) think pieces from Reihan Salaam, Rosa Douthat and Kevin Williamson about how to attract disaffected blue dog Democrats and former Obama voters with some combination of 3rd way tax credits and other “conservative” wealth transfer programs.

    You make some very interesting points, Carlton – what a well-thought-out answer! I think either your suggestion would have happened, or another possibility:

    Cruz might have focused his message more on restoring American industries doomed by Leftist environmental policy – which would have won over many blue state voters who were already disenchanted with Democrats for harming the industries that supply their paychecks. Cruz was already dismantling environmentalist talking points and praising coal on the campaign trail (which happens to be one of the industries slated for ruin by the Left’s environmentalist policies). He is savvy about tailoring his message to the audience in question – if he had reached out to blue states, he would have known what to say.

    He also would have continued to play up national outrage over political correctness. I live in a state where many industrial workers, union members, voted Republican this election…despite Republican hatred of unions. One common thread I see in these voters is that they have become disgusted by the political correctness of progressives on the Left. Anti-PC rhetoric would have attracted them.

    LJ (445277)

  146. Just a touch exagerrated, now we know how Mccain corker flake and murkowski behaved re obamacare, how do you think they would have behaved had there been a suggestion or trimming not cutting any major entitlement, you this there would have been kudosor more grand Mal hysteria,

    narciso (d1f714)

  147. Perhaps because I haven’t known him as long as Beldar, I am reluctant to jump into the middle of attacks on Patrick; it feels as absurd as a 90-pound weakling rushing to Superman’s defense – it’s likely I’ll just get in the way of justice being dispensed once the thunderbolts start to fly, and he certainly doesn’t need me to take care of himself.

    But on the other hand, qui tacet consentire videtur, and I agree that suggesting Patrick is a tool of the NYT is vile and indefensible. I hope it was just an ill-conceived attempt at edgy humor.

    Dave (445e97)

  148. “Pat and I and others here have found it incredibly liberating.”

    You go, gurl!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  149. You appear to have expertise with mental illness, Dustin. You still don’t realize what you wrote at 5:39?

    I don’t want to see yet another thread go down the tubes. Dustin, if you actually do want to have a dialog with me I shall envoke Patterico’s reasonable “please apologize first” policy.

    You insulted me in our first interaction where you claim to have asked me a question about whether or not I change names, troll style. You did not ask a question. You gave a speech. A counterproductive speech.

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  150. 147. If you haven’t started using the blocking script yet, I’d strongly encourage it. Pat and I and others here have found it incredibly liberating.

    Gryph

    It’s very hard to keep track of all the trolls here. I have barely any memory of ‘buduh’ for example, though its fixation on me, and my comments from years before that name appeared here indicates it’s been upset about arguments it had with me for a long long time.

    This points to one problem: if you change your name here it defeats the script for a while. I guess that’s why buduh changed its name. Too many people ignored it. I guess I should take your advice, as talking to a troll is just making it that much harder for script users to ignore one.

    I am glad Patterico has found a way to continue enjoying this great community he’s put together, but I would like him to bring back that rule that trolls who change their names could be banned.

    dustin (ba94b2)

  151. buduh,

    I actually do have a lot of experience with mental health issues, but I’m not trying to insult you. I don’t consider mental illness to carry with it a stigma. It’s like a broken arm or the flu. It’s an illness. You’ve shown an obsession with me. That’s unusual. It’s made you very unhappy, and though I’m not 100% sure, if you are the troll I was describing above, you’re a guy who’s been obsessed with me for years.

    Why can’t you tell us what your last names here were? It’s a point blank question you are avoiding.

    dustin (ba94b2)

  152. Seriously you play this as a childish taunt, Dustin, and you should know better, what happens if negotiations fail and we have to move to a preemptive strike, before what the rumsfeld commission predicted 20 years ago comes to pass.

    narciso (d1f714)

  153. I encourage Patterico to bring that rule back, Dustin.

    BTW, have you read your 5:39? Everyone else has.

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  154. 159. It’s up to you. I’ll confess, one major factor in my use of the blocking script has been the weeping and gnashing of teeth it seems to generate among the Schlichterites around here.

    Gryph (08c844)

  155. buduh,

    Are you saying you are so afraid to answer my question about your previous name that you’re going to claim to be soooo offended that you can’t answer it without an apology?

    OK, I apologize for everything in the world. I am super sorry. Now: what were your previous commenter handles here? Oh, let me guess: you won’t tell us. Shocking!

    dustin (ba94b2)

  156. 159. It’s up to you. I’ll confess, one major factor in my use of the blocking script has been the weeping and gnashing of teeth it seems to generate among the Schlichterites around here.

    Gryph (08c844) — 5/21/2018 @ 6:17 pm

    A great reason.

    BTW, have you read your 5:39? Everyone else has.

    BuDuh (fc15db) — 5/21/2018 @ 6:16 pm

    Oh yeah, I read that. I quoted you and apparently failed to ignore you as I had said I would or something. For this egregious offense you have demanded an apology and suggested the entire community of readers here cares deeply about this issue.

    This is why I asked if you had a mental illness.

    dustin (ba94b2)

  157. ooh look the dorkwad mattis military is falling on its ass in afghanistan (again) and guess what they’re LYING about it

    An inspector general report said that there had been few signs of significant progress by Afghan security forces and the Taliban continued to carry out deadly attacks.

    “Available metrics showed few signs of progress, and during the quarter, the Taliban and the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria – Khorasan each launched high-profile attacks in Kabul that killed hundreds,” a statement accompanying the report said.

    In August, Trump committed the United States to an open-ended conflict in Afghanistan, dispatching an additional 3,000 troops to the nearly 17-year-old war that has killed tens of thousands of Afghan civilians.

    Publicly, U.S. officials have presented an optimistic view of the situation in Afghanistan. U.S. Army General John Nicholson, who leads U.S. and international forces in Afghanistan, in November said the country had “turned the corner.”

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  158. “We can’t recall a similar case, even in the J. Edgar Hoover days, when the FBI decided it needed to snoop on a presidential campaign.”

    — Wall Street Journal Editorial Board

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  159. Yes. You quoted me. You were wrong at 5:56. You follow me and you quote me. That is what happened here.

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  160. Seriously you play this as a childish taunt, Dustin, and you should know better, what happens if negotiations fail and we have to move to a preemptive strike, before what the rumsfeld commission predicted 20 years ago comes to pass.

    narciso (d1f714) — 5/21/2018 @ 6:16 pm

    Yes, the stakes are very high when it comes to North Korea. I do not think Trump’s approach will work, and my basis for this belief is that the Clintons tried it and it did not work. Also I just don’t trust serial liars (I’m talking about the North Korean dictatorship that Trump intends to coddle, not Trump himself this time).

    Maybe kicking the can down the road is the reason the problem is so bad now, and Trump’s ploy, to bribe the North Koreans into pretending they stopped their program for a while, is deception. In reality it’s kicking the can down the road.

    dustin (ba94b2)

  161. The fish rots from the head down. When a pansy-ass Cadet Bone Spurs is Commander in Chief, it’s going to be reflected on the battlefield.

    nk (dbc370)

  162. For this egregious offense you have demanded an apology

    Incorrect.

    For someone who follows and quotes me, you don’t do a very good job reading what I write.

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  163. Yes. You quoted me. You were wrong at 5:56. You follow me and you quote me. That is what happened here.

    BuDuh

    And you’ve written a lot of comments about this, demanded apologies, and are very very upset. This is called being crazy.

    dustin (ba94b2)

  164. Some folks don’t have time for partisan activities or reporting. That’s why they read the New York Times.

    Take it to teh bank, it’s gold!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  165. You appear to have written about as many comments, Dustin.

    Heal thyself.

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  166. For someone who follows and quotes me, you don’t do a very good job reading what I write.

    BuDuh

    No one follows you. This is a bizarre claim. Unfortunately, if I don’t remember you and don’t use a blocking script, I might not realize I’m reading some troll’s comments. The world doesn’t actually revolve around you.

    And yes, you did demand an apology. But really, I just want to know what your last commenter name was here. That’s why you’re furious, right? You must be pretty ashamed of your former name.

    Because crazy.

    dustin (ba94b2)

  167. You appear to have written about as many comments, Dustin.

    Heal thyself.

    BuDuh

    Yeah, I’m feeding the troll. I do that sometimes. That appears to be what got you really upset many comments ago: that I dared quote one of your comments after saying I would ignore you. Apparently you feel you have some kind of right to people not criticizing you or something.

    What was your previous commenter name here? Why are you so evasive about this question?

    dustin (ba94b2)

  168. It’s funny Dustin you harp on supposed Trump lies so much while telling them yourself.

    Link to one time Trump has filed bankruptcy, it’s never happened.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  169. The fish rots from the head down. When a pansy-ass Cadet Bone Spurs is Commander in Chief, it’s going to be reflected on the battlefield.

    nk (dbc370) — 5/21/2018 @ 6:28 pm

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  170. You do realize that you didn’t even know you quoted me.

    Some criticism.

    I will eat dinner now so you can vent and fume some more. It is obvious that you are extremely bothered.

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  171. Didn’t mean to post that quickly, but I agree with nk.

    Narciso’s point that this is a serious matter is correct, but it only underscores how critical it is that Trump take this seriously.

    The aides are also concerned about what kind of grasp Mr. Trump has on the details of the North Korea program, and what he must insist upon as the key components of denuclearization. Mr. Moon and his aides reported that Mr. Kim seemed highly conversant with all elements of the program when the two men met, and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has made similar comments about Mr. Kim, based on his two meetings with him in Pyongyang, the North’s capital.

    Trump is not doing the job he signed up for. It’s going to cost American lives if we’re not very lucky.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  172. @137. ted cruz lol

    How soon they forget, eh, Mr. Feet; swing for the fences!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB33p5Ru_Ic

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  173. When a pansy-ass Cadet Bone Spurs is Commander in Chief, it’s going to be reflected on the battlefield.

    But by God, by the time he leaves office, we’re gonna be better than even the French on the parade ground. Macron will weep surrender-monkey tears, and cancel Bastille Day in embarrassment.

    And that’s the fact, Jack!

    Dave (445e97)

  174. I note fromthat 2010 piece, that even when there wee evidence that the Kim dynasty was breaking the deal they ignited it, did that have to do in pat with the conditions bill richardson had to comply, with the ballistic missile research Clinton handed over with bill Perry partnership with Chinese darpa (costind)

    narciso (d1f714)

  175. You do realize that you didn’t even know you quoted me.

    Some criticism.

    I will eat dinner now so you can vent and fume some more. It is obvious that you are extremely bothered.

    BuDuh

    I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. You’re the one who spent many comments demanding an apology because I hadn’t registered who I was quoting. Now you’re saying I am “extremely” bothered simply because I have replied to every comment you directed at me. Apparently you feel the need for some projection.

    BTW, why do you keep ignoring my question? What was your previous name here? This is what you’re upset about, remember?

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  176. I note fromthat 2010 piece, that even when there wee evidence that the Kim dynasty was breaking the deal they ignited it, did that have to do in pat with the conditions bill richardson had to comply, with the ballistic missile research Clinton handed over with bill Perry partnership with Chinese darpa (costind)

    narciso

    I think you raise many good points. The North Korean government is better off now, with a superior bargaining position, than it would be if we had not had those deals with them.

    I think Trump actually knows this, based on his commentary about Obama’s Iranian deal. These deals just don’t make sense for us.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  177. Halper spying on the Trump campaign several months before any FISA filing. I’m sure it’s all above board though…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  178. Halper spying on the Trump campaign several months before any FISA filing. I’m sure it’s all above board though…

    Trying to protect them from Russian spies.

    Little did anyone suspect that they didn’t want to be protected…

    Dave (445e97)

  179. More hearsay on the guerilla channel,

    How do they have a better negotiating position than before, there was fullback possible with the framewirk, or else Michael c green would have informed us.

    narciso (d1f714)

  180. Right, things they wouldn’t have knlen with mi 6 and general intelligence asset Joseph mifsud in the first placr

    narciso (d1f714)

  181. Among the steps Pompeo listed for Iran:

    Iran must…
    * end all military aspects of its nuclear program
    * stop uranium enrichment
    * completely withdraw from Syria
    * end support for terrorist groups
    * release all U.S. citizens and those of U.S. partners and allies “detained on spurious charges or missing in Iran

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  182. John Kerry has placed another call to James Taylor…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  183. @Beldar 135

    it’s very hard to tell the extent to which Trump won those states, as distinct from the extent to which Hillary lost them. Ultimately it’s a fun but pointless exercise, except as a reminder to both parties, perhaps, to pick better general election nominees in the future so that one party or the other can genuinely claim that its winning candidate enters office with a genuine mandate. Given the candidates in 2016, it was more certain than taxes and as certain as death that roughly half of America would absolutely, positively hate the POTUS.

    That’s a good point. I only did a surface dive into the exit data. The only real “trend” you can take from it was along the lines of “change election, we voted for change”. If that change was Ted Cruz, or any other candidate, I’d love to run the ancestor simulation to see how that would turn out.

    The difficult part about the electoral mandate, especially in the modern era with Twitter, Facebook etc is that a mandate can disappear just as quickly as it appeared. That was why I was all in on Senator Rand “I had nothing to do with my fathers newsletters” Paul. IMHO, he was the fusion candidate that could attract disaffected millennials, the majority of the establishment and libertarians. Criminal justice reform, fiscal discipline as well as he wears well fitting suits. (Unlike his father)

    I would like to believe that we may see another President in the next several terms who isn’t absolutely abhorred by their political opposition. I’m thinking we will see more of a political realignment in the parties before that occurs.

    Carlton (20b9c8)

  184. You’re the one who spent many comments demanding an apology because I hadn’t registered who I was quoting

    Completely and totally incorrect. Again.

    BuDuh (b78920)

  185. It’s nearly always a mischaracterization by that guy, buduh.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  186. OT, but what’s the deal with all this lava out in Hawaii?

    I don’t remember all this lava when the black guy was in charge. When is Trump gonna take a break from golfing and do something about it?

    I mean, I realize he doesn’t own any properties on the Big Island, so it’s waaay under the radar, but WHY ISN’T HE DOING ANYTHING TO STOP THE FREAKING GROUND FROM MELTING?

    Dave (445e97)

  187. wonder when the next spy will be outed?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  188. @154 LJ

    Cruz might have focused his message more on restoring American industries doomed by Leftist environmental policy – which would have won over many blue state voters who were already disenchanted with Democrats for harming the industries that supply their paychecks. Cruz was already dismantling environmentalist talking points and praising coal on the campaign trail (which happens to be one of the industries slated for ruin by the Left’s environmentalist policies). He is savvy about tailoring his message to the audience in question – if he had reached out to blue states, he would have known what to say.

    I agree. Senator Cruz has the message that these voters would like to hear. The thought I have is how would he have Delivered it. I love the way he converses in his speeches, whether in speeches in the senate, on the stump or just on television. I asked a friend of mine (another Paul supporter) why they chose Trump after Paul dropped out. It didn’t make much sense to me. They said something to the effect they felt he was “inauthentic” which frankly blew my mind.

    But I think that’s how jaded we have become in our politics. When you have a truly noble, authentic soul like a Senator Cruz, some voters have (rightly, I think) become so jaded and think “OH IT MUST BE AN ACT!?!?!”

    I think that’s why engaging with folks, and holding them to their BEST intentions, not what we believe their intentions may be, is the only way to come out of The morass we find ourselves in with our politics.

    Carlton (20b9c8)

  189. It has taken nearly two months after Chuck ross’ s initial piece to dislodge halper.

    narciso (a3accd)

  190. It’s nearly always a mischaracterization by that guy, buduh.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 5/21/2018 @ 6:59 pm

    It’s always kinda sweet when two trolls find eachother, but buduh has not clarified what his problem is with my ‘characterization’. He is the one demanding the apologies for apparently nothing. If he is so upset he can explain. But I hope that explanation includes what his previous name was here (my guess is Cruz Supporter, but this is entirely a guess).

    You’re the one the mods here called a liar, if I recall correctly. Since then I’ve not been as worried about your judgment of my disagreements with the other trolls.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  191. But now,that we know he was paid by the office of net assessment it’s much clearer now.

    narciso (a3accd)

  192. Some people don’t translate bob Taft and Phil crane to name too. Goldwater had the right views,but the wrong demeanor.

    narciso (a3accd)

  193. You insulted me in our first interaction where you claim to have asked me a question about whether or not I change names, troll style. You did not ask a question. You gave a speech. A counterproductive speech.

    BuDuh

    What was your previous name here, buduh?

    I’m not apologizing for asking what a troll’s previous troll name was here. In fact, I am going to ask more often now.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  194. Keep asking. It fits your stalking of me.

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  195. @198 Carlton,

    But I think that’s how jaded we have become in our politics. When you have a truly noble, authentic soul like a Senator Cruz, some voters have (rightly, I think) become so jaded and think “OH IT MUST BE AN ACT!?!?!”

    I never really understood why so many didn’t think Cruz was genuine in his conservatism, either. His voting record had been unequivocally conservative. People quibbled over how he approached the Gang of Eight legislation in Congress, without realizing that a defined ‘conservative’ stance on immigration does not exist. Even the Father of Modern Conservatism – Reagan himself – would be viewed as ‘not conservative’ over his immigration stance, by nationalists on the Right.

    Maybe some don’t trust Cruz because they don’t trust lawyers, and his way of speaking comes off as very polished and smooth and, well, lawyerish – ? However, it was hard to watch people (in 2016) reject the genuine article as fake, and rush to support a deceiver instead, claiming he was the only one who could be trusted.

    I think that’s why engaging with folks, and holding them to their BEST intentions, not what we believe their intentions may be, is the only way to come out of The morass we find ourselves in with our politics.

    Assuming the worst about anyone who was around at the time (while so many in Washington were promising conservatism and then enacting liberalism) isn’t the way out of being betrayed by politicians. Learning DISCERNMENT is the way out. We all need to learn how to tell the difference between a genuine article and a fake, how to know when someone is manipulating us with ill intent.

    LJ (445277)

  196. Seriously, that crazy jackalope Dan a ward who I warned you had made light of two friends passing was given free passage for at least 6 months longer than he deserved. I’ll leave out the callous disregard of Texas residents we saw from disco during hurricane harvey.

    narciso (a3accd)

  197. This is one heck of a purse-swinging fight.

    Lol at the outrage machine.

    harkin (2fa2ca)

  198. 195 Trump is responsible for the Volcano, he’s literally trying to burn every bit of Obama legacy off the face of the earth.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  199. 207.

    That’s what I was thinking. 😉

    I spent some time on female discussion boards (no homo, just a specific interest of mine). And their normal flame war revolved around debating who HAD BEEN mean to the other person. Rather than, well, just BEING MEAN to the other person.

    Anonymous (d41cee)

  200. Your habit of mischaracterizing the words of those you disagree with dates back to the 2012 campaign, Dustin. You also impugned their motives. But I don’t want to belabor the point. None of us are perfect.

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  201. Lasers mounted on dolphins of course, it would be useless to explain to them that this because of activity deep in the earths mantel.

    narciso (a3accd)

  202. My Lord… Zippy the Pinhead is on the Laura Ingraham Show right now. If you have a chance, tune in.

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  203. Well that’s because we’ve seen that song before nearly 33 years ago re Simpson mazzoli

    narciso (a3accd)

  204. Oh… wait… it’s only Chris Hahn

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  205. 209. I find that there is an art to a proper flaming. I find it so amusing when people accuse me of being crass and vulgar here. I don’t think I’ve ever denied it, particularly as regards my feeling towards Schlichterites.

    Gryph (08c844)

  206. The dude cleans up pretty well…

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  207. Its like shooting womprat with the t 16 back home.

    narciso (a3accd)

  208. No merely naive and innatentive, with hot takes that are serious contrived.

    narciso (a3accd)

  209. Wait ‘til the schiff hits the fan.

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  210. I agree with Beldar’s #46 and #47.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  211. So if the summit is,actually useful, what will they fret about next.

    narciso (a3accd)

  212. I don’t agree with this, posted the night of November 8, 2016:

    “Oh well. I can’t “congratulate” such an awful cretin. F*ck this guy. He’s a ridiculous ignorant clown. His election is a giant disgrace.”

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  213. Even the NYT wouldn’t go that low.

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  214. 221. His 45 was pretty good too, don’t you think? 😉

    Gryph (08c844)

  215. @ Haiku: How many times have you, personally, gotten a major media outlet like the NYT or LAT or a major TV network to issue a correction?

    Point us to one.

    Andrew Breitbart once asked me how many corrections I’d gotten the LAT to issue. I’m going from memory here, but I think I stopped counting in the low 40s.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  216. 221. His 45 was pretty good too, don’t you think? 😉

    It was. How did I miss that? Let me amend my statement and declare myself in accord with Beldar’s comments, nos. 45-47, inclusive.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  217. There’s no way that people who want to defend decency and truth can respond to every trollish comment from an ankle biter. But I want to say that when it does happen, every so often, as it did here in many excellent comments from Beldar, and comments from Dustin to boot, it’s gratifying. I do appreciate that, and it helps keep *me* even-tempered, which is a goal of mine these days.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  218. And like Nixon goes to China, the great man made nice with the fish wrap/birdcage liner…

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  219. I agree with Beldar’s #46 and #47.

    But what about #45?

    :)

    Dave (445e97)

  220. Oops

    Dave (445e97)

  221. 222… oh, I’m sure they’ll find something, narciso. It’s their nature. Whatever can be fashioned into a club.

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  222. Trump is responsible for the Volcano, he’s literally trying to burn every bit of Obama legacy off the face of the earth.

    Except Obamacare, I guess.

    Dave (445e97)

  223. I don’t know how you can look at an institution that has failed so spectacularly for more than 40 years and say give me, speciAlly if you remove all effective obersight.

    narciso (a3accd)

  224. @Narcisco 222

    That’s a good point. If it’s useful or successful, I’m in the cautiously optimistic camp that it will be, the concerns will be on whether or not President Trump will hold up his end of the bargain. My guess is that’s how a large portion of the media may spin it.

    My bet is that he would. The real concern is “Does China want to euthanize their rabid pit bull?”

    Korean denuclearization does 2 important things for US NatSec interests.

    1. Removes the wild card that the ChiComs have vis-a-vis North Korea.
    – The Chinese won’t be able to rattle the saber through the Kim famiMy to shake down American firms to give up their intellectual property rights for access to Chinese markets.
    2. Decreases the likelihood of a limited shooting (or even nuclear) war which would destabilize the region and lead to GREATER US involvement in the perceived Chinese sphere of influence.
    -The Chinese really believe that the 21st century belongs to Chinese State Capitalism. In my estimation, they think at THIS point in history that they are ready to take on the behemoth that is the full force of the US economy.

    Chinese firms can’t compete with American IP (that they haven’t stolen.)The incentive system enforced by the state heavy control over their markets doesn’t allow them to be agile enough to shift he way that American firms can.

    So really, the decision for the Chinese, because I would think that when we get down to brass tacks here, that’s who we are actually negotiating with, is to:

    A. End the Kim family dynasty as currently constructed, and hope to add whatever manufacturing power they can withdraw as well as SoKo IP and compete in an open market with the US.

    B. Continue the current strategy, allow KJU to stay in power and be punished in a trade war which they will lose.

    The Chinese need American companies and products in their markets. It provides them with an ability to continue to grow their GDP without having to build Ghost cities that no one lives in……

    Carlton (20b9c8)

  225. @Patterico 228.

    Read mind like water (if you already haven’t) excellent book on mindfulness.

    Carlton (20b9c8)

  226. 228. I hear that Gryph guy is pretty swell too, though he can get a tad salty sometimes. 😛

    Gryph (08c844)

  227. Yes and they play a cynical , of course the Korean have long memory when it comes to the Manchu dynasty.

    narciso (a3accd)

  228. “I used to be a doubter who would cringe, just a little, at any mention of “the deep state.” I admit it, it all seemed a little far-fetched to me that there was this cabal of careerists conspiring from within the government to harm President Donald Trump when I first heard it. I never doubted there were individuals doing it, but a wide net of conspirators seemed like something out of a bad movie more than anything that could actually happen in the United States.

    I was wrong, very wrong, the deep state is real. But there is much more than just this small group of powerful people working toward a common goal, there is an entire infrastructure created by the left not only to destroy Trump, but to indoctrinate unsuspecting Americans into their agenda.

    As the curtain is pulled back on the Obama administration’s unprecedented efforts to spy on the Trump campaign, there is a good possibility many of the perpetrators could face criminal charges, or at least should. But it’s important to understand that liberals didn’t just create this out of the blue in 2016, it’s the culmination of everything they’ve worked toward for decades.

    The infrastructure they used to spy on the Trump campaign was something inherently governmental, simply planting a mole in the campaign couldn’t tap phones or access emails. But the ability to cover up that fact requires a level of media complicity that takes time to create.

    Getting the desired message out is only part of the battle, it has to be believed by a significant percentage of the public for it to really matter. Conditioning the public to be receptive to that message, without questioning how it came about or why they should care required subtle indoctrination over a lifetime.

    As it stands, liberals have that infrastructure in place, they had that support system ready to go. And, not to get all Scooby-Doo on you, they would’ve gotten away with it were it not for the existence of conservative media.
    None of this is by accident, and it didn’t start on November 8, 2016, it just sprang into action. Nearly every aspect of life, to one degree or another, has been or is ready to be weaponized against anyone who dares to stand up to the liberal agenda. And none have stood up to it in a more threatening way than Donald Trump.

    But the clock is ticking, the fuse is burning down low.”

    https://townhall.com/columnists/derekhunter/2018/05/20/the-deep-state-is-real-and-much-bigger-than-you-know-n2482458

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  229. The problem is,coronello as robin has explained too much of the conservative infrastructure trades on statism even at the local level, that’s what constructivist education is about.

    narciso (a3accd)

  230. It turns out queasy did the Madrid train bombing in passing as if he,had nothing to do with it occurring btw he had two ghost writers,one what Matt latimer a for speechwriter for rumsfeld and w.

    narciso (a3accd)

  231. Nearly every aspect of life, to one degree or another, has been or is ready to be weaponized against anyone who dares to stand up to the liberal agenda.

    It must be awful to be a grown-up and still be convinced there are scary monsters under the bed…

    Tell me, did these evil malefactors use their orbital mind-control lasers to force Trump’s son, son-in-law and campaign manager into an illegal conspiracy to enlist the Russian government on their side?

    Dave (445e97)

  232. Keep asking. It fits your stalking of me.

    BuDuh

    Hold up now. You were the one going through years of my comments, remember? You feel entitled to hide your previous comments for some reason, by changing your name, but apparently you also feel that those you argue with are subject to your Grand Inquisition. And if we ask you what your name was, you will demand an apology over and over.

    But I’m stalking you? I think we can see from the way you freaked out upthread, I was barely even aware of you, and you’ve been obsessed with me.

    I only asked a question. Why does it upset you this much?

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  233. Unlike the Obama campaign that actually imported Russian sources into an intelligence document you mean?

    narciso (a3accd)

  234. Yep, narciso, they know who butters their bread.

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  235. 244. Maybe next time BuDuh changes his name, he should change it to ButtHurtBuDuh. Not only would we still know who he is, but it would also more accurately reflect his personality.

    Gryph (08c844)

  236. We know now that general Cartwright leaked stuixtnet to Sanger, that others like McDonough dumped the set up for al queda surveillance in Pakistan, of course there was the Iraq war plan in 2002, which forced another whole strategy to be implemented, not crossing over from Jordan

    narciso (a3accd)

  237. You were the one going through years of my comments, remember?

    Wrong again. Would you like to know what I did? It isn’t that difficult.

    I searched on Google with a couple of key words and your pledge to vote for Hillary popped right up.

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  238. Nice comment at 238, Gryph. It reminds me of someone.

    https://youtu.be/UKQNQz4HZH0

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  239. Let’s count all the lies:

    “It never happened. There was no communication between the campaign and any foreign entity during the campaign.”
    – Hope Hicks, November 2016

    “I have nothing to do with Russia. To the best of my knowledge, no person that I deal with does.”
    – Donald Trump, February 2017

    “This is a non-story because to the best of our knowledge, no contacts took place, so it’s hard to make a comment on something that never happened.”
    – Sarah Sanders, February 2017

    “Did I meet with people that were Russian? I’m sure, I’m sure I did. But none that were set up. None that I can think of at the moment. And certainly none that I was representing the campaign in any way, shape or form.”
    – Uday Trump, March 2017

    “The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.

    This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump – helped along by Aras and Emin.”
    – Rob Goldstone to Uday, June 2016

    “Seems we have some time and if it’s what you say I love it especially later in the summer.”
    – Uday, in reply to Goldstone, June 2016

    “Emin asked that I schedule a meeting with you and The Russian government attorney who is flying over from Moscow for this Thursday.”
    – Rob Goldstone, in reply to Uday, June 2016

    Dave (445e97)

  240. I only asked a question.

    Incorrect.

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  241. 250. You’re the last guy in the world that should criticize me for self-aggrandizement, Trump humper.

    Gryph (08c844)

  242. 252. Okay, so maybe he didn’t only ask a question. But he did ask a question. And the only word I can think of to describe the way you responded to that question is “evasive.”

    Gryph (08c844)

  243. You mean hired by an American law firm actually two if you include Cohen O’Connor, whose visa was approved by the Obama adminstratiom with no travel restriction who met with Steele paymasters on the same tower, before and after the meet.

    narciso (a3accd)

  244. 243:

    Not yet proven or even indicted as criminal.

    Trump folks talking to the Russians were probably in the wrong. Not that surprising to see campaigns looking for dirt on the opposition though. Even more so as we see signs that there was entrapment and persistent efforts (Halper) to raise the idea. Also, you can look at at Clinton campaign hiring Fusion GPS (a pretty slimy “push” PR firm) to look for Russian dirt on Trump.

    Note, I’m not excusing the sin. Just like I don’t excuse lying (on any detail) when subjected to a perjury trap like an interview done knowing the info by FBI and with person not realizing they are being trapped. Obviously, you should still tell the truth, follow the Commandments, etc.

    Anonymous (d41cee)

  245. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/self-aggrandizing

    I didn’t see ass kissing in the definition. Maybe you should email them a correction.

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  246. Since you are so very concerned, Gryph, I’ll help you out. He did not ask a question. He made an insinuation. Then he went mental.

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  247. They found nothing of note, then again fusion is the stormbringer of Russian oligarchs their instrument.

    narciso (a3accd)

  248. Gryph should hire “John Barron” to do his PR.

    Dave (445e97)

  249. I searched on Google with a couple of key words and your pledge to vote for Hillary popped right up.

    BuDuh

    You’re just lying. You went through years of my comments (yes, I assume you used search functions to do so) and were not able to find any such pledge. But you appeared to have quite a memory of debate with me (which is why I guess you’ve got some bizarre problem with me).

    You spent several hours doing this inquiry into my comments over the years, but you did this because you are very offended that I had a curiosity about your previous trolling. It’s an amusing degree of hypocrisy. You are so angry that your past commentary was even mentioned that you have claimed the mantle of ultimate victim, but you’re the one doing this search into my comments.

    Of course, I’ve been very consistent that I think Trump and Hillary are extremely similar in most respects. I see no reason to be ashamed to hold this opinion, and I don’t think it invalidates anything else I say. You and Haiku use this argument simply to avoid addressing criticisms of Trump. Oh Oh! New York Times! Therefore the debate is over!

    Demand fewer apologies, and try to contribute ideas in good faith, “buduh”. Maybe you’ll have to change your name in shame less often if you behave less shamefully.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  250. By contrast the bureau didn’t care to look in wieners computer for three weeks,for the subpoenaed emails, which were in breach of all,security protocols.

    narciso (a3accd)

  251. @Colonel 240

    I read Derek Hunters piece earlier today. Really excellent read. The really persuasive part, IMHO

    None of this is by accident, and it didn’t start on November 8, 2016, it just sprang into action. Nearly every aspect of life, to one degree or another, has been or is ready to be weaponized against anyone who dares to stand up to the liberal agenda. And none have stood up to it in a more threatening way than Donald Trump.

    Anyone who is familiar with public choice theory can see that the incentives are aligned to protect the power of the state, or the establishment as it were. This is the reason I have always been a vehement critic of the surveillance state that we have slowly allowed to engulf us. In the wrong hands *cough* John Brennan *cough* it can be used as a cudgel with which those in power have almost unlimited “legal” ways to actively spy on any American citizen with the the fallback position of “NATIONAL SECURITY”. That’s banana republic territory there. Although, I think that we should pick a different tropical style fruit with which to describe the AMURRICUN slide into that despotic tyranny. Let’s call it the “mango republic.”

    And with the Democrats in charge of it, “You can’t toucha de mango”. That’s why Trump is such an existential threat. They fear he WILL abuse the system right back in their direction.

    And to his credit, he hasn’t.

    Carlton (20b9c8)

  252. Just like they werent interested in the,quartermastering of two foreign cartels and the suppression of speech and fundraising of tea party activists.

    narciso (a3accd)

  253. Interesting interview here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSEamaRxBC8

    Not a lot of specific new intel but at least a bit less of the chest beating from “my side” than I am used to (hate Hannity, Bongino, etc.). Two clear things that come through:

    1. He is pissed at the level of obfuscation. And not Rush Limbaugh beating the chest. But really, really pissed.

    2. He doesn’t trust people (for good reason) not to play dishonest games (like his previous referall to having been a leaker).

    3. The use of BRIEFINGs is a bad idea. Allows people to say something not on the record. To play Clintonian word games, etc. LACK OF CANDOR to use the OIG terminology (some statements by Comey, Clapper fall right into that). I can also think of the Brennan comment about having given separate, identical briefings to different members of Congress. Were there transcripts? Do they contain the full conversation? Would we make Bayesian bets that the Democrats got same info as Republicans?

    Anonymous (d41cee)

  254. Even after the million dollars paid to the asset, the monies paid to fusion, The four different fisa taps they got nothing.

    narciso (a3accd)

  255. He did not ask a question. He made an insinuation. Then he went mental.

    BuDuh (fc15db) — 5/21/2018 @ 9:31 pm

    Oh, granted, it’s completely irrational to expect an obvious troll to answer a single challenging question in good faith. I learned that from debating Haiku about the Romney nomination, many years back. But I still ask the question to make my points.

    Your claim I’m ‘mental’ is a very plain act of projection. You’re desperate to change the subject. What did you say that makes you so upset that you would need to change your name, yet you’re still so obsessed with trolling this blog, where you apparently hate a lot of us, that you can’t just go away? You’re pretty weird, but then, the internet is full of weirdos.

    You have failed to articulate anything I’ve done that would call for an apology. I do apologize, such as the time I apologized to Haiku for guessing he was responsible for sock-puppet racial crap. The mods then let me know he had lied in denying authoring that crap. I am prone to apologize when I feel it’s called for because I have integrity. I don’t just change my name and flip out of anyone guesses I’m me. Why don’t you have that kind of integrity, buduh?

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  256. You went through years of my comments

    Wrong.

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  257. All fear the Archivist! He “can be a very effective and fearsome Warrior”.

    http://www.flamewarriorsguide.com/warriorshtm/archivist.htm

    Anonymous (d41cee)

  258. You have failed to articulate anything I’ve done that would call for an apology.

    The last time I did, you swore that you would never interact with me again. Then today you couldn’t help yourself.

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  259. If Brennan or some successor decidedcided some candidate was so inflammatory one needed to take more affirmative steps what would stop them, the law don’t make me laugh

    narciso (a3accd)

  260. 263:

    Yeah, I hate that security state, too. Ron and Rand were right on. And Snowden absolutely did right thing. There was a huge amount of Panopticon going on that we did not know about.

    Oh…and we were sold Patriot Act (which I still disagreed with, including at the time) as something to keep us free from guys flying planes into skyscrapers. But now we see all kinds of use for non terrorist conventional counterintel investigations, even legalistic wave-particle duality* of criminal versus national security use. And the abuses by different agencies, contractors, etc. (see Rogers tipoff and FISA Court memorandum are totally what we could have expected.

    I totally think Trump and Nunes were wrong to sign off on that Patriot Act extension (or whatever it was, if I have the law name wrong).

    *Reminds me of a shipmate who used to bike around and occasionally drag his foot on the ground saying, “I’m a car…I’m a pedestrian!” (And about 30% of the time was neither, not that rapidly switching back and forth is legit itself.)

    Anonymous (d41cee)

  261. Nixon after all didn’t try to put someone,in jail for the crime they didn’t commit, Ellsberg offense,was as clear as day,

    narciso (a3accd)

  262. Ues,section 702, they cross the Rubicon on a cigarette boat, snowmen was more about potential capabilities but still we are in the era,of the panoptocon

    narciso (a3accd)

  263. So if Hannity and binging and savage doesn’t help out the truth who will, the journolist the echo chamber the rixzoto

    narciso (a3accd)

  264. @272

    Whatever comes out of the Mueller investigation/OiG report/leaks from Congress, once a majority of the cards are laid out on he table, I think we may see a revisiting of how the national security apparatuses are used under a new speaker. Whether they are republican or Democrat.

    Either more congressional oversight, some bipartisan panel. While my preference would be for us to get out of the business of the bulk collection of metadata, that genie has escaped the bottle and we aren’t going to get her back in. If we are going to put great power into the hands of fallible (or fallen) individuals, lets make those people accountable to the public. Let it reside in Congress.

    The feeling I’m getting is that

    Carlton (20b9c8)

  265. Blocking is liberating.
    Get a flu king life

    mg (9e54f8)

  266. The last time I did, you swore that you would never interact with me again. Then today you couldn’t help yourself.

    BuDuh (fc15db) — 5/21/2018 @ 9:42 pm

    You’re lying again. I’m sure I said I’d ignore you, but I forgot you existed. I certainly didn’t ‘swear’ anything, and it wasn’t a reaction you your dramatic demand for apologies.

    Wrong.

    BuDuh

    Obviously not wrong, as you were searching for a pledge for how I would vote in an election that happened more than a year ago. Like your man Trump, you are a terrible liar. Why are you so dishonest about such a silly thing? why are you so obsessed with how I would vote? Why the intense need to hide what you said under your previous name here?

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  267. Remember the fisa procedure arose out of the abuses of nsa minaret and shamrock programs it,was written up by biden; supposedly had more safeguards. Heh. So where do we go from here.

    narciso (a3accd)

  268. The capacity had already been hinted at in the avengers, when they are searching for the tesseract, two years later the t are shocked,what it could be used for, and mAke a,foolish mistake.

    narciso (a3accd)

  269. 279:

    Scrap it. There are HUGE amounts of money being spent on computers and people and it is way off the point of diminishing returns. Heck, I bet if you fired 80% of the CIA, we’d get better intel and analysis, just by eliminating the chair warmers and pension collectors.

    Anonymous (d41cee)

  270. The capacity had already been hinted at in the avengers, when they are searching for the tesseract, two years later the t are shocked,what it could be used for, and mAke a,foolish mistake.

    Person on interest handled the same issues,with more sophistication

    narciso (a3accd)

  271. buduh seems to really hate me, with a deep intensity. It’s very personal to him. And he’s very fixated on my ‘insinuation’ that he has changed his name. He’s also overly dramatic about these oaths and his victimhood. I would bet real money he actually cried during our interaction today.

    Obviously it is not my intention that he get this upset, but he’s very very interested in demanding I ignore him (therefore that he not have this scrutiny on his bizarre conduct).

    Why?

    It’s crap like this that really makes me worry about the impact the internet has on mental health. buduh clearly does not interact with the outside world enough to have a normal perspective on victimization and hardship. He’s upset that I didn’t ignore him! Who would care about that? I certainly don’t.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  272. t. There are HUGE amounts of money being spent on computers and people and it is way off the point of diminishing returns. Heck, I bet if you fired 80% of the CIA, we’d get better intel and analysis, just by eliminating the chair warmers and pension collectors.

    Anonymous

    And people who need to justify their existence. Mission creep and BS getting in the way when they present to decision makers.

    It’s hard to say without having an inside perspective, but I do wonder why the CIA has missed so many world-changing events. Yet we need the best intel agencies possible.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  273. Because they keep the likes of valerie,Plame a glorified clerk who doesn’t hesitAte to pull rank, or John BrennAn who can’t figure out being on hamas or Hezbollah is not the right side.

    narciso (a3accd)

  274. Yes, Narciso, I think that’s largely correct. Unfortunately it’s correct all over so many government agencies. Lois Lerner should have been too busy actually processing business documents to wage war on the tea partiers. Political weaponization is partly a consequence of idle hands.

    I would love to see Trump fix this with his ‘you’re fired’ shtick, but the government is larger today than it ever was with Obama. That’s not an endorsement of Obama. His government was huge compared to Bush. And his was too big as well. Ending unionized government employees and passing a balanced budget amendment are core reforms we need. What’s done is done and Trump is president now, and I imagine we’ll lose a few house seats (which we would have with Cruz too). It may be a while before we have the chance to elect a real reformer again, and I’ll be just as ticked off if we screw it up the next time.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  275. In some areas in others there is clear regulatory retrenchment but the congress is no help they want every cent that cones in. To do too much of nothing, poorly

    narciso (d1f714)

  276. 286:

    Sometimes I wonder off if we are almost better off with a Democrat in the White House and Republicans playing gridlock. The Bill Clinton years were not that bad in terms of government spending. Bush went crazy spending. And I had to listen to all the RINOs who justified Wall Street bailouts because “we don’t want to be Herbert Hoover and lose the 2008 election”. (Then we lost for 8 years AND endorsed non-free markets. You can go back to Nixon and wage and price controls for similar Repuke problems. (Granted Obama broke the bank.)

    This is what I tell the Repukes if they ever call me for money. I say I am done with just giving money so I can say “my side” won. What I want is actual conservative policies. Look at Obama in contrast. Yes, he cost his side some seats and the 2016 election. But he got Obamacare installed, dreamers legitimized, etc. Policies I totally disagree with. But from liberal perspective, huge accomplishments.

    Anonymous (d41cee)

  277. But he got Obamacare installed, dreamers legitimized, etc. Policies I totally disagree with. But from liberal perspective, huge accomplishments.

    I try to argue that Obama had a very limited legacy, but that’s because I really did expect Obamacare to be undone. It’s remaining well into the GOP presidency so I’m thinking it’s just another huge entitlement program, only with an insulting loss to our freedom. You’re right.

    The Bill Clinton years were not that bad in terms of government spending.

    Indeed, and you’re right that the reason for this is the power being split between two parties. The GOP in particular felt it needed a purposeful contract with America. They forced Clinton to make actual deals. The result was actually a pretty functional government, relative to today. Clinton’s legacy is completely dependent on this conflict, and though I’m sure he hated it at the time, it did not make him a weaker president.

    We need to get past partisanship. The GOP has no real conservative heart, no conservative origin, and its record is simply trying to be ‘less bad’ for conservatives than the democrats are, which has led to this recursive cycle where we head left over time. It’s a shame!

    To do too much of nothing, poorly

    Texas has a more limited legislative window, but I think that would actually lead to an even more overpowered executive. I want congress to do less, but I also want them to have exclusive power over lawmaking. No clear path there. I think our entire system of government is probably in need of change.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  278. Well then, maybe the next Administration will take a good look at Trump’s taxes/finances?

    In the best of all possible worlds, noel, all the vipers would swing.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  279. @289 Dustin:

    We need to get past partisanship. The GOP has no real conservative heart, no conservative origin, and its record is simply trying to be ‘less bad’ for conservatives than the democrats are, which has led to this recursive cycle where we head left over time. It’s a shame!

    You are so right! Being “less bad” means we arrive at the same destination, but we just get there more slowly.

    If only more Republicans could see this!

    The deterioration of the Left is not merely political; it is also moral. One follows the other – because thought follows will. When we don’t want to live by certain standards, or can’t face what it would mean for our lifestyle if we admitted certain truths, we revise our theories to accommodate our desired way of life.

    Unless we on the Right are going the opposite direction from the Left, not only in terms of policy but also in terms of morality, we are merely destroying our country at a slower pace.

    LJ (445277)

  280. There was some discussion awhile back as to whether Comey telling Trump about the dossier was a “hook” to get news organizations (CNN, for example) to be able to write about it. Some dismissed that idea as being oversold. Evidently, there might be truth to that assertion, given Senator Johnsons’ letter sent to the FBI today. On January 8, 2017, following the briefing Andrew McCabe wrote an e-mail to FBI leaders stating “CNN is close to going forward with the sensitive story….The trigger for them is they know the material was discussed in the brief and presented in an attachment.” More particulars here: https://www.scribd.com/document/379845088/Ron-Johnson-Letter-to-FBI-Director-Wray-Re-Steele-Dossier The CNN story ran two days after this e-mail.

    pete (a65bac)

  281. Segue:

    For some reason I was Googling around based on Russiagate and I came to this article: https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/96unclass/casey.htm

    No huge point to make of it in terms of Russiagate other than it is interesting to hear the perspective of someone from the inside and all the hassle and work of dealing with a scandal.

    Anonymous (d41cee)

  282. pete – first, even assuming you are right (which I don’t think you are) how long do you think material as explosive as the dossier would have stayed under wraps if the FBI hadn’t briefed Trump on it? What difference does it make that it came out on January 10, instead of January 11 or 12?

    The fact that McCabe and others knew CNN’s plans was because CNN (and other media outlets) were calling around and asking the IC questions about it. McCabe’s email is not some huge new revelation; Comey testified to the same thing back in 2017, and he told the president the same thing in the briefing. This is just recycling old news and conspiracy theories to keep up the drumbeat against the rule of law in TrumpWorld.

    Suppose the FBI had kept the existence of the material concealed from Trump; do you suppose there would have been backlash about keeping him in the dark and allowing him to be blind-sided by it?

    Bottom line: the fact that news organizations were asking the FBI about it and thinking about publishing it made it mandatory to brief Trump. To suggest otherwise is absurd.

    And who freaking cares? It would have come out within a few days or weeks regardless. Nobody was going to sit on that stuff for long.

    Dave (445e97)

  283. Spineless Mike threatening “Chairman Un” with Khaddafi-dom unless he follows in Khaddafi’s footsteps seems unlikely to get Spanky any closer to Oslo…

    Dave (445e97)

  284. 294:

    Problems I have with the briefing are:

    1. Trump only briefed partially on the dossier and not told straight up “this is only a partial briefing”. This is lack of candor.

    2. The topic of the briefing was leaked to the press (by Clapper). This is totally wrong (regardless of the classification, the issue is sharing the details of private briefings). Executive can’t trust anyone working for him if this is the case.

    3. Although this was “sensitive” and all that, there seems to have been a fair amount of email chatter towards the group about the meeting (both McCabe and Comey).

    ————

    Also, on topic: this stuff had been shopped around the press a lot going back to October. However, the MSM had not run with it. Since they don’t just run what are essentially anonymous letters spreading dirt. They probably also correctly looked at the material and said some of it read too over the top to be likely to be true (Trump calling his poop Obama…and the piss-hookers; but also just the tone of the thing…kompromat, etc. just not reading like professional analysis). But they didn’t run with it until AFTER the meeting.

    Also, the emails we just got from McCabe said they used the briefing as the TRIGGER to print:

    “CNN is close to going forward with the sensitive story,” McCabe wrote to Comey, Rybicki, and two others. “The TRIGGER [emphasis added] for them is they know the material was discussed in the brief and presented in an attachment.”

    Anonymous (d41cee)

  285. Again, old news. Comey wrote it in his January 6, 2017 memo immediately after briefing Trump, and told the president exactly that:

    I said I wasn’t saying this was true, only that I wanted him to know both that it had been reported and that the reports were in many hands. I said media like CNN had them and were looking for a news hook. I said it was important that we not given them the excuse to write that the FBI has the material or [redacted] and that we were keeping it very close-hold. He said he couldn’t believe they hadn’t gone with it.

    Also:

    I don’t think “discussed in the brief and presented in an attachment” means what you think it means.

    “discussed in the brief and presented as an attachment” means it was on paper in the president’s daily brief or some equivalent official document. Comey’s private talk with Trump does not satisfy that “trigger”.

    In fact, the original CNN story got several details wrong. It said:

    Classified documents presented last week to President Obama and President-elect Trump included allegations that Russian operatives claim to have compromising personal and financial information about Mr. Trump, multiple US officials with direct knowledge of the briefings tell CNN.

    The allegations were presented in a two-page synopsis that was appended to a report on Russian interference in the 2016 election. The allegations came, in part, from memos compiled by a former British intelligence operative, whose past work US intelligence officials consider credible. The FBI is investigating the credibility and accuracy of these allegations, which are based primarily on information from Russian sources, but has not confirmed many essential details in the memos about Mr. Trump.

    The classified briefings last week were presented by four of the senior-most US intelligence chiefs — Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, FBI Director James Comey, CIA Director John Brennan, and NSA Director Admiral Mike Rogers.

    In fact, there were no classified or other documents presented in Comey’s private meeting with Trump (Comey sat at a table and described the stuff to Trump verbally), and the material was explicitly NOT included in the main briefing by all four IC chiefs.

    So the McCabe email is interesting in one respect: CNN had told them what was necessary, and that was exactly what CNN claimed, in their story, had happened. But in fact the “trigger” did not actually occur in the January 6 briefing. There were no documents about hookers “discussed in the brief and presented as an attachment” – with Trump.

    *If* CNN’s trigger was really met as they claim, it was met by a briefing of Obama, not Trump.

    Another interesting point overlooked in Comey’s description of the briefing is:

    “At the conclusion of our session, the COS [Chief of Staff, presumably Priebus] asked whether there is anything we haven’t mentioned that they should know or that might come out.”

    If Trump’s chief of staff said that, I don’t see how they could have concealed the information. It would have been gravely unethical to hide it after being specifically asked in that way.

    Dave (445e97)

  286. Try to imagine this happening:

    The FBI director, and heads of the CIA, ONI and NSA are finishing a top secret briefing on Russian meddling in the election and other dirty tricks.

    The president-elect’s chief of staff asks “whether there is anything you haven’t mentioned that we should know or that might come out.”

    The four IC chiefs look at each other, collectively shrug their shoulders and say: “Actually, there is something potentially very embarrassing to the president-elect, but we can’t tell you anything because CNN might run a story on it if we do.”

    And Donald Trump says, “I see – well, if you say so, I guess it’s for the best then.”

    LOL.

    Totally something that could have happened.

    Dave (445e97)

  287. The press had had the story for months and didn’t print it. The briefings brought it to the fore.

    Do you seriously think Obama didn’t know about the dossier from months before? This was his first briefing?

    If you are going to brief Trump, you have an obligation to tell him it is partial if it is partial. Otherwise it gives a false impression of the issue. After all, the briefing was justified by saying “it’s going to come out in the news”. Well, the whole thing came out. Yes it would be embarrassing to LOOK IN THE EYE and say “this is partial”. But it would be the manly, honest thing to do. After all, you can also just NOT brief him. And he gets it a little later in the news anyways.

    Anonymous (9103c9)

  288. Also, we are getting MORE of this “I’m a car, I’m a pedestrian” game. If the investigation was against Russian interference, not looking at Trump as a subject, he should have been briefed on it. Fully. FULLY.

    Anonymous (9103c9)

  289. It emerged on Monday that a White House Military Office coin had already been minted to mark the summit’s occasion, showing the busts[?] of Mr Trump and “Supreme Leader” Kim Jong-un.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/22/donald-trump-discuss-moon-jae-in-keep-north-korea-talks-track/

    ‘ow you say “vainglorious” in your country?

    nk (dbc370)

  290. Damn’ shame if it works out, huh? Will Stormy still be a thing?

    Richard Aubrey (10ef71)

  291. Define “works out”. Kim Jong Un getting an easing of sanctions in return for dismantling a test site that has already collapsed does not count.

    nk (dbc370)

  292. I mean Comey might be in the clear, but what the HECK is Clapper doing telling he wanted Comey to brief Trump in a small group or privately (i.e. confidentially) and THEN Clapper leaks the briefing? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

    And I could be getting confused on the details but didn’t Clapper initially lie and say he hadn’t leaked the briefing and then come forth and admit he did leak it? That is just bizarre.

    Anonymous (d41cee)

  293. What I love, Anonymous, is all the liberal media being all up in arms about the sanctity of informers and communications taps placed by the secret police in the political campaign of the rival party. One even had the nerve to claim that it was Trump who, by demanding an investigation by the DOJ, was using the government to investigate his political opponents. Which, if they had paused a moment, would have struck them as an admission that the “political opponents” they’re talking about is Obama’s FBI.

    nk (dbc370)

  294. “The sting of sanctions will be painful if the regime does not change its course from the unacceptable and unproductive path it has chosen to one that rejoins the league of nations,” Pompeo, shy of a full month on the job, said at The Heritage Foundation, warning Iran’s leaders that the “strongest sanctions in history” are coming…“The regime has been fighting all over the Middle East for years. After our sanctions come in force, it will be battling to keep its economy alive.”

    https://www.dailysignal.com/2018/05/21/irans-choice-becomes-economy-at-home-or-terrorism-abroad-pompeo-warns/

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  295. Talk is cheap.

    nk (dbc370)

  296. “You’ve got to wonder what is in these documents that the DOJ and FBI will not turn them over to Congress. For months, they have resisted turning over documents rightful requested as part of the Congressional oversight.”

    It’s been long enough now that the kindest possible take is that the contents of the documents are innocuous, but DOJ is engaging in an illegal power-play against Congress. But it’s also been long enough that the kindest take is probably also the least likely take.“

    https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/297402/

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  297. Because they had nothing only the crowdstrike report, only the steele supplied dossier, the shearer supplemental

    narciso (d1f714)

  298. “Also don’t miss the reference in the letter to Clapper, who was the one who wanted Trump briefed on the dossier in the first place. He may have also been working with CNN.“

    … lo wherefore the geek shall go forth and feather his nest…

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  299. Does FBI counterintelligence so any counterintelligence, rhetorical.

    narciso (d1f714)

  300. 311:

    To me Clapper looks like the bad guy more than Comey. Or perhaps McCabe. McCabe we learn now had leaked once before. Clapper we learn leaked this, specifically. The one thing from Comey that sounds bad is this:

    ‘The next day, Comey reported on his briefing in an email to FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe, FBI General Counsel James Baker and Chief of Staff Rybicki. (All four men have since resigned or been fired from the FBI.)

    “I said there was something [Director of National Intelligence James] Clapper wanted me to speak to [President Elect Trump] about alone or in a very small group,” Comey wrote in the email. “I then executed the session exactly as I had planned…I said media like CNN had them and were looking for a news hook.” (Clapper now works as a CNN contributor.)’

    Note, I’m NOT accusing Comey of setting Trump up. But the “exactly as I planned” sounds very calculated. And we know now that only a partial briefing of the dossier was done. And it is likely that Trump was not told directly THIS IS A PARTIAL BRIEFING. So, getting a briefing like that was misleading as key information was held back without letting him know.

    It’s just hard to understand why he HAD TO BRIEF him very much. But then NOT to brief him fully. That “lacks candor”.

    To me, how can an executive work with people that are going to play games like this:

    1. Comey giving deceptive calculated briefings, via ommission [the OIG interview guidelines are very clear to the opposite direction of the candor required from people talking to OIG…but really just basic common sense about how a subordinate briefs a supervisor applies].

    2. Clapper leaking the details of very confidential briefings to the press.

    How can you work with snake weasels like that?

    Anonymous (d41cee)

  301. “How can you work with snake weasels like that?”

    Anonymous (d41cee) — 5/22/2018 @ 7:46 am

    Ferrets and snake weasels are of the same genus… somehow they manage.

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  302. By the way, when Comey briefed Trump, the investigation had NOT yet become a criminal investigation. It was a counter-intelligence operation. And…President is the main consumer of intelligence. In addition, if it was directed at other people, not Trump, but around Trump, that was very important for Trump to know. If you care about the office of the Presidency, you brief the guy…that is important info for him to have, for several reasons. However, if instead, you see HIM as the subject of the investigation, maybe you keep it hidden. Or…I guess even if you don’t see him as the subject of the investigation, but just don’t respect the idea of faithful service to the incoming President, setting him up for transition, etc. So…that is sort of a big deal to deliberately give a deceptive, omission-style, calculated briefing. Doing that, means something.

    Anonymous (d41cee)

  303. Sessions is a mole for the Kenyan born Obama.

    mg (9e54f8)

  304. Do you seriously think Obama didn’t know about the dossier from months before? This was his first briefing?

    The “two page synopsis” on Trump’s alleged dalliance with hookers in Moscow was attached to the Intelligence Community Assessment on the election hacking that was dated January 6. The main briefing of Trump on that date was about that report, because the report had just been completed. There’s no reason to believe Obama knew about that particular detail before that report either. It was raw, unconfirmed intel, and the president receives finished product like the ICA.

    But whether he knew about it before or not isn’t even the point. It’s clear now that Comey’s conversation with Trump is a total red herring vis-a-vis the CNN story. The “news hook” that CNN wanted (and mentions) was the two page synopsis attached to the ICA dated January 6, not Comey’s private talk with Trump.

    I mean Comey might be in the clear, but what the HECK is Clapper doing telling he wanted Comey to brief Trump in a small group or privately (i.e. confidentially) and THEN Clapper leaks the briefing? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

    Clapper never admitted leaking anything. He said he spoke to CNN about it at an indeterminate date, and the House Intelligence Committee leapt to the conclusion that he leaked information about the briefing.

    The unsupported claim that James Clapper tipped Jake Tapper about the dossier explains the false narrative created to attack the rule of law.

    And I could be getting confused on the details but didn’t Clapper initially lie and say he hadn’t leaked the briefing and then come forth and admit he did leak it? That is just bizarre.

    That’s not what happened. The supposedly inconsistent statements were in consecutive sentences of his testimony:

    Q: Did you discuss the dossier or any other intelligence related to Russia hacking of the 2016 election with journalists?
    CLAPPER: No.
    Q: Did you confirm or corroborate the contents of the dossier with CNN journalist Jake Tapper?
    CLAPPER: Well, by the time of that, they already knew about it. By the time it was — it was after — I don’t know exactly the sequence there, but it was pretty close to when we briefed it and when it was out all over the place. The media had it by the way. We were kind of behind the power curve, because the media, many media outlets that I understood had that, had the dossier for some time, as did people on the Hill.

    and later in the testimony:

    Q: Was it your testimony earlier that you did, in fact, discuss the so-called dossier with CNN journalist Jake Tapper?
    CLAPPER: Well, after it was out, yeah.
    Q: And by out, what do you mean by that?
    CLAPPER: Well, once it was public. It wasn’t — you know, it wasn’t like this is an Intelligence Community document or anything. This was out in the media.

    Clapper later clarified to the WaPo:

    “The first time I had any interaction with Jake Tapper was on May 14,” when he appeared on Tapper’s TV show as a guest.

    Clapper could certainly be lying; but it is not true that he ever admitted to leaking information about the dossier. He has consistently denied it.

    Dave (445e97)

  305. CLAPPER: Well, by the time of that, they already knew about it. By the time it was — it was after — I don’t know exactly the sequence there, but it was pretty close to when we briefed it and when it was out all over the place. The media had it by the way. We were kind of behind the power curve, because the media, many media outlets that I understood had that, had the dossier for some time, as did people on the Hill.

    Still bad news for an Intel guy to reveal private briefings (neither confirm, nor deny) but if he only discussed it in May, it’s not as bad as I thought. I would still be wary of the timing. Maybe he talked to Tapper in May and others earlier. These guys have to be pinned down.

    Somebody leaked it. McCabe said before the story had even broken (we know now, from emails) that CNN was running it, hooked on the briefing.

    Anonymous (d41cee)

  306. CNN fake news propaganda slut Jake Tapper didn’t just need a hook he was coordinating the timing with Clapper as part of the coup

    think of Clapper like a pimp, and think of Jake as a flat-chested Stormy

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  307. @318 “Clapper could certainly be lying..” I think you meant “Clapper could certainly be giving his least untruthful answer…” https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/01/19/james-clappers-perjury-dc-made-men-dont-get-charged-lying-congress-jonathan-turley-column/1045991001/

    pete (a65bac)

  308. This article argues that “pretty close to the briefing” and “media had it by the way” sounds rather different than confirming it in May (well after it was reported in January). Why say “media had it” rather than “after it was reported”.

    https://hotair.com/archives/2018/05/03/clapper-claims-didnt-leak-info-dossier-cnn/

    In addition, I found the answer evasive and sea lawyerish. Just answer the question…don’t jump into an excuse. If he talked this way as a JO to a CO during a casualty debrief, he’d get reamed. They know you will screw up. What they hate is excuses and non responsive answers.

    Anonymous (d41cee)

  309. Clapper seems like he is all over the map on this leaking.

    First it’s a straight no. Then it’s “around the time of the briefing”. Other times he says, it was after he left service (20JAN). Other time it was after 10JAN. Other time it was May. Just doesn’t seem straight to have to dance like that.

    http://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/385351-clappers-actions-sure-look-like-political-manipulations

    Anonymous (d41cee)

  310. Give you credit for not taking Dave’s dissembling as fact. He likes playing that game when it comes to defending the left all while pretending to be a staunch conservative.

    NJRob (b58d3c)

  311. Give you credit for not taking Dave’s dissembling as fact. He likes playing that game when it comes to defending the left all while pretending to be a staunch conservative.

    NJRob

    You guys have said this about Dave a lot, and I guess Haiku and Buduh are asserting I’m a lefty too.

    Does this accomplish something? Suppose Dave and I are liberal democrat communists. So what? Suppose Patterico is a secret NYT tool, and his decades of correcting liberal media bias was FAKE NEWS meant to trick us. Maybe Alex Jones is on the right path to be paranoid about everything. But so what?

    Our arguments are no less credible if we like gay marriage and huge deficit spending and gun control. Who we are is not relevant to whether our criticisms of Trump (or whatever) are valid criticisms. The need to constantly bash us, the need to get personal as you just did towards Dave, is intellectual weakness. It means you can’t take his arguments on. You gotta dismiss them with a personal attack.

    It’s the same reason bududh (cruz supporter?) went through years of my comments failing to find where I said I actually endorse Hillary (dishonestly skipping over hundreds of comments where I condemn her as practically the same as Trump). Such a ton of effort, wasted. Why not just admit the perspective that distrusts Trump has great validity to it? It’s just an opinion… it shouldn’t threaten Trump fans so much because it ultimately makes no difference. His success or failure will largely be based on our economy (which is doing quite well) and foreign policy (he’s one of the worst ever).

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  312. I think Dave is smart and he refers to specifics a lot. Even just keeping track of this stuff is hard, so I think it is good to have the challenge from Dave (or Patterico). Much better than an echo chamber of treepers.

    Anonymous (d41cee)

  313. I agree. It’s a lot more fun if these threads are full of challenging counterarguments than if they are campaigns of personal attacks and Grand Inquisitions to determine who is the True Conservative. But then, it’s probably a lot easier to condemn someone as not an authentic conservative, and just refusing to get past it.

    What’s amusing about this is how Trump’s been all over the place, particularly all over the left side of things, and this is totally OK with the same guys donning the Inquisitor’s robes.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  314. Again, Dustin mentions Buduh.

    I saw your mini-fit last night and I feel bad that you are so upset over this, Dustin. It is apparent that you lack the necessary integrity to look back at what you have said and honestly reflect on how offensive and incorrect it was. I will go ahead and answer your “question” that originally was never framed as a question. It may help you sleep at night.

    I may have used a different handle at the end of 2017 or the beginning of 2018. I only made 1 or 2 comments then. That was the first time I commented at Patterico’s. Since then I deleted my cookies and cache so the handle no longer preloaded. I couldn’t remember what name I used. It was either BuhDuh or Buduh. I went with the latter. I do not post under multiple names troll-style.

    I don’t really care if you believe me. I just hope it helps you get some much needed rest.

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  315. no juche dave is perhaps at matt ‘gaza land bridge’ yglesias level,

    narciso (d1f714)

  316. Narciso, I don’t necessarily agree with all of Dave’s comments. I think they’re have been a few didn’t agree with, though I don’t really pay that much attention to this stuff. But I do like some good faith, intelligent difference of opinion, brought in good spirits.

    It’s much better than the weirdly hostile stuff from trolls who rotate through names to avoid their own reputation.

    I don’t understand what the trolls intend to accomplish.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  317. You mean Hes not a troll, could have fooled me, ask Ross douthat Atlantic blog or the first contentions blog about that.

    narciso (d1f714)

  318. Type pad is not as bad as discus, that’s a troll kudzu.

    narciso (d1f714)

  319. You mean Hes not a troll, could have fooled me, ask Ross douthat Atlantic blog or the first contentions blog about that.

    narciso

    Who, Dave or Yglesias?

    Dave’s not a troll. He definitely prods the Trump fans with inconvenient perspectives, but this is on-topic discussion.

    Trolling is when someone tries to derail the thread from its topic. For example, if someone went through years of another commenter’s comments, posting them to wage some bizarre personal attack, in an effort to shut down an argument that was on topic, that person would be a troll. After doing that for too long, that troll would probably need to change their name to skirt the blocking script and that small amount of accountability that is one’s internet reputation.

    Yglesias is a clickbait guy and I don’t really pay attention to vox or wherever he’s at, but I’ll take your word for it.

    Type pad is not as bad as discus, that’s a troll kudzu.

    It’s interesting that the more technically sophisticated comment sections do indeed have more trolling, but I think it’s our culture more than anything else.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  320. You guys have said this about Dave a lot, and I guess Haiku and Buduh are asserting I’m a lefty too.

    Does this accomplish something? Suppose Dave and I are liberal democrat communists. So what? Suppose Patterico is a secret NYT tool, and his decades of correcting liberal media bias was FAKE NEWS meant to trick us. Maybe Alex Jones is on the right path to be paranoid about everything. But so what?

    Our arguments are no less credible if we like gay marriage and huge deficit spending and gun control. Who we are is not relevant to whether our criticisms of Trump (or whatever) are valid criticisms. The need to constantly bash us, the need to get personal as you just did towards Dave, is intellectual weakness. It means you can’t take his arguments on. You gotta dismiss them with a personal attack.

    It’s the same reason bududh (cruz supporter?) went through years of my comments failing to find where I said I actually endorse Hillary (dishonestly skipping over hundreds of comments where I condemn her as practically the same as Trump). Such a ton of effort, wasted. Why not just admit the perspective that distrusts Trump has great validity to it? It’s just an opinion… it shouldn’t threaten Trump fans so much because it ultimately makes no difference. His success or failure will largely be based on our economy (which is doing quite well) and foreign policy (he’s one of the worst ever).

    Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/22/2018 @ 10:04 am

    Just because it’s dishonest. He appeared after Trump was elected proclaiming himself a conservative, but at every opportunity attacks the right and defends the left. If it was just attacking Trump that would be one thing, but he consistently defends the Obama administration, excuses Hillary’s criminal activity and dismisses Republican accomplishments or belittles them. Calling a spade a spade is accurate.

    If he was as honest as Leviticus or Aphrael, I wouldn’t make an issue of it.

    Your past is enough to prove your beliefs, no matter how much we part since last November. If Gryph is indeed Gryphon from Hot Air, then his past proves who he is as well. Dave has no past here, so I call it as I see it.

    NJRob (b00189)

  321. dave @318:

    . The “news hook” that CNN wanted (and mentions) was the two page synopsis attached to the ICA dated January 6, not Comey’s private talk with Trump.

    If CNN cited the briefing, then the briefing is the news hook, and the news hook was like you said – the two page syynopsis – except that the two page synopsis wass part of the briefing. If not, then Comey telling Trump personally about this was to minimize the fallout from the story.

    Comey practically said that anyway:

    https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/os-jcomey-060817.pdf

    At the conclusion of that briefing, I remained alone with the President-Elect to brief him on some personally sensitive aspects of the information assembled during the assessment.

    The IC leadership thought it important, for a variety of reasons, to alert the incoming President to the existence of this material, even though it was salacious and unverified. Among those reasons were: (1) we knew the media was about to publicly report the material and we believed the IC should not keep knowledge of the material and its imminent release from the President-Elect; and (2) to the extent there was some effort to compromise an incoming President, we could blunt any such effort with a defensive briefing.

    The Director of National Intelligence asked that I personally do this portion of the briefing because I was staying in my position and because the material implicated the FBI’s counter-intelligence responsibilities. We also agreed I would do it alone to minimize potential embarrassment to the President-Elect.

    The question is, did James R. Clapper and otehrs know that the media was about to report it because they had something to do with the leak?

    (Alternatively, they found out because they were getting questions about it. You can believe that if you want.)

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  322. The likeliest scenario is an agreement that allows Trump to declare victory, lifts sanctions, and accomplishes nothing verifiable

    If anything like that were to happen, Bolton and otehrs would resign.

    The mildest scenario is that the sanctions stay in place, and theer is no agreement.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  323. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/05/22/north-korea-summit-trump-meets-south-korea-president-moon-jaein/632044002/

    Trump suggests North Korea summit could be delayed while he huddles with South Korea

    Why can’t he be like Reagan?? (Of course he’s not raeagan but wouldn’t he like to be compared to him?)

    Walk out. Walk out after ten minutes if it becomes extremely clear. Although reagan stayed for the full schedule at Reykjavík.

    How serious did Trump think Kim was? Maybe the explanation to go with indeed is that Moon convinced him Kim had caved in.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  324. the premise of the story, is actually belied by the national security adviser’s on the record statement, but who needs that when you have the gorilla channel,

    narciso (d1f714)

  325. I don’t think Clapper personall;y leaked it. I don’t think he would.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  326. narciso @ 338 Premise of what story? What statement?

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  327. the david sanger one, if the terms are not propicious, he’s said he wouldn’t go, in yonnap news,

    narciso (d1f714)

  328. 9/ Ed from SFV (b95465) — 5/21/2018 @ 8:30 am

    I also do not credit Un. This was orchestrated by the PRC. By the bye…what tariffs?

    Very clear. I am not so sure how clear this is to members of teh trump negotiating team. Probably to some of them. trumo, in the meantime has been fooled by his conversations with XI int thinking Kim is some kinmd of independent actor. Maybe he was for a while. but I think he got good and scared and his whole negotiating strategy is being directed by China, <b/ which does not want to eliminate the North Korean threat

    I mean they’d like to threaten Taiwan with nuclear weapons.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  329. https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/05/bernard-lewis-the-imam/

    ADDENDA: R.I.P., Bernard Lewis. Jay Nordlinger offers a terrific appreciation here:

    I can just hear Bernard say something with perfect irony: “Some people believe that Arabs should be free of dictatorship, like others in the world. This is known as the anti-Arab, or Western-imperialist, view. Other people say or imply that Arabs are destined to live under dictatorship, as the natural and rightful state of affairs. This is known as the pro-Arab view. . . .”

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  330. Just because it’s dishonest. He appeared after Trump was elected proclaiming himself a conservative, but at every opportunity attacks the right and defends the left. If it was just attacking Trump that would be one thing, but he consistently defends the Obama administration, excuses Hillary’s criminal activity and dismisses Republican accomplishments or belittles them. Calling a spade a spade is accurate.

    I point out any attacks that I think are dishonest, inaccurate or illogical. Since a lot of the attacks here are directed at Clinton and Obama, that means I sometimes point out the bad ones.

    When I thought Patterico had misconstrued one of your comments, I even defended YOU once, NJRob.

    My policy is to never give Trump the benefit of the doubt, because he has not earned it. It is true that I do not apply that standard to Obama or Clinton (although I remain highly skeptical of them, as I do all liberal democrats), but he is not alone in that category. In addition to Trump, the no-slack list includes people like Maxine Waters, Harry Reid and Barbara Boxer.

    I think you’re being wildly dishonest too. I have never “defended Hillary’s criminal activity,” unless by that you mean I’ve suggested that not every dollar donated to the Clinton Foundation was spent corruptly. My position is that Hillary should have been indicted for mishandling classified documents, and I assure you, I would be just as happy to see her locked away in prison as I would Donald Trump (and that means: pretty damn happy).

    I also do not “consistently defend the Obama administration”. I have always opposed Obamacare. I opposed Porkulus. I opposed (and still oppose) DACA. I oppose any climate change policies that would hamstring the economy (the Paris accord did not, however). I think some attacks on Obama are dishonest (he never promised to reverse the rise of the oceans) or exaggerated (most people did keep their doctors and insurance plans after Obamacare, but he should have acknowledged that some might not).

    As any accomplishments during the Trump administration, see above – no matter what Trump does, it would be better for the country if he’d resign instead. If Trump had resigned instead of nominating Gorsuch, Pence could have nominated Gorsuch, and then we’d have a qualified supreme court justice AND a qualified president, instead of just a qualified supreme court justice. There is nothing Donald Trump can accomplish that a qualified and moral president couldn’t accomplish, and many things Donald Trump *can’t* accomplish that a qualified and moral president *could*. That’s my story, and I’m sticking to it.

    I wish people were better at distinguishing between pointing out bad arguments and advocating for leftist policies. You have never seen me advocate for keeping Obamacare, or DACA, or raising taxes(*), or abortion, or gun control. You’ve never seen me babble about income inequality or raising the minimum wage or cutting the defense budget. Not. Once.

    I may depart from the conservative orthodoxy occasionally, mainly because I recognize that in 51-49 country, it is usually not possible to get 100% of what you want. I thought this year’s omnibus bill was an understandable compromise, for example.

    But calling me a liberal, or a democrat, or a communist/socialist/whatever is just lying.

    (*) Full disclosure: I have said that raising taxes was the least bad option available to Bush 41 back in 1991, in the face of a Democrat congress and automatic cuts mandated by Gramm-Rudman

    Dave (445e97)

  331. BuDuh (fc15db) — 5/22/2018 @ 9:18 am

    So the NYT was wrong? I am shocked.

    It didn’t make it to this thread.

    But I consider the main point of the NYT story that Trump was asking questions as to what’s going on here, not that he’d come anywhere close to cancelling the meeting, or even broached it with South Korea.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  332. Hillary mishandling classified documents was trivial. Shje brought the investigation on hers by asking that all her (remaining) emails be releasded, which resulted in a review for classification. Everybody else in the State Department also probably did the same thing, except that they used a (unclassifired) satte.gov account.

    The real issue is what incriminating material was deleted. I think she did the whole thing for fear she migt slip up and leave something incriminating in government records. probably following Bill Clinton’s instructions.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  333. There were violations of law (and certainly government reglkations) just in setting up the system, nd people probably lied under oath and it was a whitewash, but the important things were in teh deleted emails and any secrets sho communicated by phone or in person.

    She also had classified material faxed to her home in DC, where her maid, who never got a security clearance (she had something better: A Clinton clearance) handled them, but the FBI didn’t look into that.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  334. Why can’t he be like Reagan?? (Of course he’s not raeagan but wouldn’t he like to be compared to him?)

    I can’t see Reagan/Gorbachev at Reykjavik as being analogous to Spanky and “Chairman Un”.

    Reykjavik was a meeting of equals with a long and complicated bilateral relationship. And the principals were both honest, well-intentioned men.

    Singapore is not, in any sense, a meeting of equals, and neither of the principals are honest, well-intentioned men.

    Dave (445e97)

  335. Halper is finally named in the Washington Post. Some heavy butthurt in the article and in the comments.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/05/22/4-surprising-facts-about-stefan-halper-the-professor-and-top-secret-informant-on-russia/?utm_term=.0248dbc61764

    Doesn’t mention:

    *(Publicly reported) participation in intel gathering re Reagan-Carter election.

    *Payment history (what we can publicly see)

    *Significance of the WP and NYT articles mentioning Halper all but in name, and almost certainly based on people who ran Halper.

    *Carter Page says his contacts felt innocent and is not clear that Halper was spying on him in the meetings.

    *Halper has been missing for months (not available at home or by call, NoVa associates haven’t seen him either).

    Anonymous (d41cee)

  336. @348. Singapore is not, in any sense, a meeting of equals, and neither of the principals are honest, well-intentioned men.

    Remakes are seldom as good as the original, although Melania in sarong tops Dorothy Lamour. But where’s Captain Custard?!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJK7PTNIWQM

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  337. Hooked On a Feelin’ Briefin’

    I can’t stop this feelin’, watchin’ my TV
    Girl, you just don’t realize, what you do to peeps
    When ya stare down with those beady eyes
    You let them know, that something’s not right
    They, they’re hooked on a briefin’
    High on believin’ that you’re not square with them

    Dress that’s plain and frumpy, your eyes look ‘round teh room
    Girl, you keep ‘em lookin’ for another place to hide
    Things look bad for you girl, but you don’t need a cure
    They’ll just stay addicted and hope they can endure

    They, they’re hooked on a briefin’
    High on believin’ that you’re not square with them
    All the bad news comin’ on the phone
    Eat it up, girl, even skin and bone

    They, they’re hooked on a briefin’
    High on believin’ that you’re not square with them

    Colonel Haiku (e208fd)

  338. RIP Richard Goodwin

    Who won the 1955 Academy Award for Best Motion Picture, Dick?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  339. I will point out that, at the time, everyone said that Reykjavik was a failure, yet it ended the Cold War and led to a massive reduction in tensions and arms.

    Not that Trump is in the same league, mind you, just that what people SAY about a summit is sometimes wildly wrong.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  340. Agreed. All the hubbub is around how a summit helps a politician, but the more important things are developments for nations.

    Anonymous (d41cee)

  341. Trump seems to have noticed that Kim Jong Un hardened his position after his second meeting with Xi in China last week, and is indeed blaming the hardening it in China, so he’s not fooled about that, but the way he explains it is that China wanted to get more trade concessions from the United States.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)


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