Patterico's Pontifications

4/24/2018

New York Times Labels Real News About Palestinians as “Fake”

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 9:00 am

The New York Times has an article by Nellie Bowles about Facebook’s Campbell Brown — who is, according to Bowles, seen by some as an “insidious figure — a telegenic personality with close ties to conservative figures who can offer Facebook’s outreach the veneer of journalistic credibility.” (Close ties to conservative figures?! Horrors!) As one example of the kind of alleged right-wing conspiracy mongering that supposedly occurs on Facebook, Bowles cites stories that Palestinians pay millions in pensions to the families of terrorists:

Facebook — with its reach of more than 2.2 billion users — already holds enormous power over the news that people consume. But now it is making its first venture into licensed news content. Facebook has set aside a $90 million budget to have partners develop original news programming, and Ms. Brown is pitching publishers on making Facebook-specific news shows featuring mainstream anchors, according to two people involved in or briefed on the matter, who asked not to be identified because the details were confidential.

Once those shows get started, Ms. Brown wants to use Facebook’s existing Watch product — a service introduced in 2017 as a premium product with more curation that has nonetheless been flooded with far-right conspiracy programming like “Palestinians Pay $400 million Pensions For Terrorist Families” — to be a breaking news destination. The result would be something akin to an online competitor to cable news.

Crazy conspiracy nonsense, right?

Not so much, as it happens. As the blog Why Evolution Is True notes, these payments are real. The annual budgets are often hundreds of millions of dollars. Anyone who follows the conflict has heard of this — anyone, that is, except for Nellie Bowles.

Now The Times has had to issue a correction:

An article on Sunday about Campbell Brown’s role as Facebook’s head of news partnerships erroneously included a reference to Palestinian actions as an example of the sort of far-right conspiracy stories that have plagued Facebook. In fact, Palestinian officials have acknowledged providing payments to the families of Palestinians killed while carrying out attacks on Israelis or convicted of terrorist acts and imprisoned in Israel; that is not a conspiracy theory.

Oops.

This is what is dangerous about Facebook and Big Media deciding what’s “fake” and sweeping it from view. A lot of what they consider “fake” is actually true — and vice versa.

Who will watch the self-appointed watchdogs? How can we decide if any article is fake news if we never get to see it? These are valid questions of concern in a world where people who all share a left-leaning point of view are entrusted to decide what we should and should not see.

[Cross-posted at RedState and The Jury Talks Back.]

233 Responses to “New York Times Labels Real News About Palestinians as “Fake””

  1. Close ties to conservative figures.

    And yet they are mystified by charges of political bias.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  2. How long until the Times has spelling and grammar mistakes, too?

    Kevin M (752a26)

  3. And yet they correct their errors.

    Still waiting for the Trump White House to issue corrections for all of the president’s false statements.

    Dave (445e97)

  4. Palestinians are a disgusting and debased people

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  5. Very true. Thank you for bringing this up.

    The joke about the correction is they it is a footnote after the fact that won’t get nearly the coverage their lie did.

    Corrections should be front page news. It would make them have to research their lies more thoroughly. If that was the case though, they just wouldn’t make the correction.

    NJRob (dd0486)

  6. And yet they correct their errors.

    As narrowly as possible.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  7. Corrections should be front page news.

    I like this.

    And when the president tells lies during a speech in front of a crowd of 10,000 true believers, he should have to schedule another televised rally of the same size, specifically to correct them.

    Dave (445e97)

  8. Spanky just called Kim Jong Un “open and honorable”.

    By Trump’s standards, I suppose anybody is honorable.

    Dave (445e97)

  9. These days there are so many dishonest university professors and “researchers” that a reporter can source in a way that an entire series of stories can spun out of whole liberal cloth.
    If one is predisposed to believe that the Palestinians are all Gandhi/Mother Teresa fighting Zionist apartheid, there are plenty of “well thought of” and “leading” academics out there to help out.

    steveg (a9dcab)

  10. @8

    Correction: “very open” and “very honorable”

    Dave (445e97)

  11. Kim must have sent a flattering letter.

    Dave (445e97)

  12. Dave getting his trump hate on early today

    Hi (3946ac)

  13. This must have posed a dilemma for the NYT. A anti-Palestinian “service introduced in 2017 as a premium product with more curation that has nonetheless been flooded with far-right conspiracy programming”. Which way to turn? Knock down (what they perceived as) pro-Israel propaganda or let a right-wing conspiracist slide?

    nk (dbc370)

  14. “If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor. If you like your health insurance, you can keep your health insurance. Average Americans will save about $1800 per year.”

    Dave, since Obama lied to the nation repeatedly for months on end, according to your formula (at #7), how many times and for how long should Obama, the Democrats who voted for his lies, and the media outlets who spread his lies, have to spend admitting to the nation they were all engaged in a blatantly illegal conspiracy to defraud the public under cover of an obviously bogus national health care program?

    Bonus points for explaining how the Cornhusker Kickback or any of the other bribes for votes sealed the deal at the expence of taxpayers in other States.

    ropelight (9c31ab)

  15. So Obama, the dirty $@!$!#, lied. And that makes it OK for Trump to lie.

    Fascinating logic.

    Dave (445e97)

  16. No, Dave, Obama’s lies are irrefutable, whereas Trump’s ‘lies’ are projections from the depths of your diseased psyche.

    ropelight (9c31ab)

  17. We see here the problem with someone determining what is fake news.

    This is very real, and Congress assed a law because of it, the Taylor Force Act, which I kind of doubt that even President Trump will have the guts to follow through on.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  18. whereas Trump’s ‘lies’ are projections from the depths of your diseased psyche.

    Tu quoque straight into ad hominem. Nice.

    I’ll take “Logical Fallacies” for two hundred, Alex…

    Dave (445e97)

  19. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_Force_Act (Taylor Force is the name of a person who was killed by terrorists, a veteran of Afghanistan and Iraq who was visiting Israel as part of a Vanderbilt University study group examining global entrepreneurship, who was killed in a stabbing attack in Tel Aviv on March 8, 2016, whose family gets a monthly pension equal to several times the average monthly Palestinian wage)

    And indeed, this year, the amount will surpass $400 million.

    http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/260453/all-the-fake-news-thats-fit-to-print

    Reading Bowles’s report, for example, Lahav Harkov, the Knesset reporter for The Jerusalem Post, took to Twitter to share some of her meticulous reporting on the Palestinian pay-for-slay program with Bowles: Read the real news, and you’ll learn that, in 2017, the PA doled out more than $347 million to families of terrorists who had murdered Jews, increasing the amount to $403 million this year.

    I think the payemnts also go to people who planned to murder, or claim to.

    The Palestinian Authority is not easily going to back off on pensions and salary for terrorists and their family members. It would be a sea change. they might offer not to add more people to the list.

    North Korea might more easily give up its stockpile of plutonium.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  20. Dave, I listed a very few of Obama’s irrefutable lies (3 in fact) as examples, you claimed Trump lied but didn’t provide any evidence, exactly like Democrat idiot allegations of ‘Russian Collusion’ to excuse Hillary’s disastrous failure.

    Now, you want to weassel out of the obvious consequences of the formula you proposed at #7 and which I called you at # 14. Apparently, you aren’t up to the task.

    ropelight (9c31ab)

  21. @20

    JAN. 21 “I wasn’t a fan of Iraq. I didn’t want to go into Iraq.” (He was for an invasion before he was against it.) JAN. 21 “A reporter for Time magazine — and I have been on their cover 14 or 15 times. I think we have the all-time record in the history of Time magazine.” (Trump was on the cover 11 times and Nixon appeared 55 times.) JAN. 23 “Between 3 million and 5 million illegal votes caused me to lose the popular vote.” (There’s no evidence of illegal voting.) JAN. 25 “Now, the audience was the biggest ever. But this crowd was massive. Look how far back it goes. This crowd was massive.” (Official aerial photos show Obama’s 2009 inauguration was much more heavily attended.) JAN. 25 “Take a look at the Pew reports (which show voter fraud.)” (The report never mentioned voter fraud.) JAN. 25 “You had millions of people that now aren’t insured anymore.” (The real number is less than 1 million, according to the Urban Institute.) JAN. 25 “So, look, when President Obama was there two weeks ago making a speech, very nice speech. Two people were shot and killed during his speech. You can’t have that.” (There were no gun homicide victims in Chicago that day.) JAN. 26 “We’ve taken in tens of thousands of people. We know nothing about them. They can say they vet them. They didn’t vet them. They have no papers. How can you vet somebody when you don’t know anything about them and you have no papers? How do you vet them? You can’t.” (Vetting lasts up to two years.) JAN. 26 “I cut off hundreds of millions of dollars off one particular plane, hundreds of millions of dollars in a short period of time. It wasn’t like I spent, like, weeks, hours, less than hours, and many, many hundreds of millions of dollars. And the plane’s going to be better.” (Most of the cuts were already planned.) JAN. 28 “The coverage about me in the @nytimes and the @washingtonpost has been so false and angry that the Times actually apologized to its dwindling subscribers and readers.” (It never apologized.) JAN. 29 “The Cuban-Americans, I got 84 percent of that vote.” (There is no support for this.) JAN. 30 “Only 109 people out of 325,000 were detained and held for questioning. Big problems at airports were caused by Delta computer outage.” (At least 746 people were detained and processed, and the Delta outage happened two days later.)

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  22. That’s just Jan 2016.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  23. you know who really hates gay people is Joy Reid

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  24. Claiming there is no evidence that Donald Trump lies is like claiming there is no evidence that Stormy Daniels is unchaste…

    But anyway, here ya go.

    Of course, given the sheer quantity, it’s a challenge to catalog every last one of Trump’s lies, but this should be representative sample:

    121 “mostly false” statements
    174 “false” statements
    80 “pants on fire”

    Dave (445e97)

  25. Spanky just called Kim Jong Un “open and honorable”.

    By Trump’s standards, I suppose anybody is honorable.

    Dave (445e97) — 4/24/2018 @ 9:46 am

    If you send him a shoe I’m sure he’d pound it on the podium and scream “We will bury you!”

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  26. So Obama, the dirty $@!$!#, lied. And that makes it OK for Trump to lie.

    Fascinating logic.

    Dave (445e97) — 4/24/2018 @ 10:22 am

    Well Dave, you could go to the rallies yourself and yell, “You Lie!” till the cows come home. It sounds like you need a hobby anyway.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  27. “Well Dave, you could go to the rallies yourself and yell, “You Lie!” till the cows come home. It sounds like you need a hobby anyway.“

    Or a proper spanking…

    Colonel Haiku (43fb26)

  28. Politifact… hahahahahahahahahahahahah…. HA!

    Colonel Haiku (43fb26)

  29. 9 of the first 24 comments from ConDave.

    The OCD is strong in that one…

    Colonel Haiku (43fb26)

  30. ropelight, I agree with you that Obama has lied a few times. He’s a politician and they

    Let’s think of it this way: Obama has kept his word to the mother of his children, and has honored his commitment to his family. Trump not only lacks family values, he has repeatedly demeaned the mothers of his children with prostitutes, physical assaults, and there’s one credible claim of forcible rape (which Trump’s lawyer defended with a ‘you cannot legally rape your spouse in this jurisdiction’ argument, apparently the best defense available by that lawyer’s judgment). Criticize Obama’s character all you like, but where it matters most he is a better person than Trump. Anyone even pausing to readily agree is, with all due respect, a partisan hack.

    And yeah, on a gut level, I just won’t ever respect Trump because of this stuff. A lot of Trump’s fans roll their eyes at this ‘virtue signal’ crap, but I mean it. There’s absolutely nothing good about tolerating Trump’s moral sickness.

    Trump fans have a very limited basis to criticize anyone’s character. The GOP gave up those issues completely for many years to come. If you think Watergate was bad, just wait for those tell-all books we’ll get in a few years.

    A conservative is told he has a binary choice. Either you vote for the person who is telling you the truth about erecting an enormous, unsustainable government, or you vote for the person who is lying about not doing that. The GOP’s 2016 primary proved that this party does not care about integrity. The only guy who even tried to be honest about the problem, Ted Cruz, was beaten into submission. The political reality is that being honest in the GOP will simply destroy your political career.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  31. Thank you, Dustin.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  32. Great to see you Simon!

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  33. Allahpundit reports on this story as well.

    Dave (445e97)

  34. I’m sorry Mr Dave, but if you want to add a side of harsh rhetoric to the House Specialty of North Korean Appeasement I’m going to have to check with the new chef. There’s been a disturbance in the kitchen.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  35. “Well Dave, you could go to the rallies yourself and yell, “You Lie!” till the cows come home. It sounds like you need a hobby anyway.“

    Or a proper spanking…

    Colonel Haiku (43fb26) — 4/24/2018 @ 11:52 am

    Good luck finding a Time Magazine with his picture on it.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  36. I need to set up a green screen in California and Shop that Cher video “If I could turn back time”. I could make a million dollars from #nevertrump birthday parties.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  37. Let’s say that Kim agrees to nuclear disarmament, with US inspectors having carte blanche to search and verify.

    Why would this not be an accomplishment for Trump?

    Dave?

    Kevin M (752a26)

  38. Speaking of which, Obama agreed to a nuclear deal with Iran where 1) Iran agreed to be discreet about its bomb-making; 2) we cannot inspect, 3) we sent them tons of money, and 4) we removed the sanctions intended to stop their bomb-making.

    This WAS an accomplishment for Obama.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  39. What I expect is that Trump will meet with Kim, Kim will refuse to give up his nukes, and we will have to decide just how badly a world with 30 nuclear weapons states scares us.

    Do I wish that we had a better Commander-in-Chief? Yes. But I will point out that Obama was a noticeably worse CINC.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  40. No, Trump did not throw Admiral Jackson under the bus.

    nk (dbc370)

  41. Let’s say that Kim agrees to nuclear disarmament, with US inspectors having carte blanche to search and verify.

    Hahahahaha. Good one.

    2) we cannot inspect

    My understanding, from multiple sources, is that the Iran agreement includes extensive inspection rights of all nuclear facilities. So I think you are misinformed here.

    Dave (445e97)

  42. Let’s say that Kim agrees to nuclear disarmament, with US inspectors having carte blanche to search and verify.

    Why would this not be an accomplishment for Trump?

    Dave?

    Kevin M

    (I’m not dave but)

    Of course not.

    It would be the opposite of an accomplishment. How many times do we need to get cheated by North Korea’s nuclear deals before we recognize that they will continue their program in Pakistan or wherever, and if they get caught, they will just switch to bellicose mode again. Trump’s promise to the American people that the brutal North Korean is honorable is not exactly making Reagan smile from the heavens.

    This WAS an accomplishment for Obama.

    But it wasn’t. Yeah, the media went from loving Obama too continuing to love Obama, but beyond that, Obama’s accomplished legacy is, in full:

    A) Obamacare

    B) Two Supreme Court justices

    C) Far superior example for mankind than his successor

    It’s a short list and he wasn’t a particularly noteworthy president. I don’t see this as a bad thing at all. I’d love to have a president who had no agenda at all and just presided over the laws and let the legislature do the legislating.

    Do I wish that we had a better Commander-in-Chief? Yes. But I will point out that Obama was a noticeably worse CINC.

    I bet if Obama was a Republican and Trump was a democrat, which isn’t really that hard to imagine, you would make a 180 on this. Trump’s foreign policy record is probably the worst in modern history. Obama did completely fail with Iraq and Iran and I actually agree with you that he has failed, but Trump’s failure has equally massive implications. We don’t yet really know what degree of collusion did exist between him and the Soviets (why bother pretending they aren’t?). But on some level, I do think his campaign made a deal with the devil, and only die-hard Team R partisans can forgive that.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  43. Yes lol trump is now a rapist! Hahahhahah hell the guy has been a public figure with national prominence since the 80’s…the minute he runs for office as a Republican he’s a rapist got it.

    You people have driven yourself mad.

    Hi (3946ac)

  44. My understanding, from multiple sources, is that the Iran agreement includes extensive inspection rights of all nuclear facilities. So I think you are misinformed here.

    Dave (445e97) — 4/24/2018 @ 1:02

    No it doesn’t, what planet are you living on?

    Hi (3946ac)

  45. Obama’s accomplished legacy is, in full:

    A) Obamacare

    B) Two Supreme Court justices

    C) Far superior example for mankind than his successor“

    I stopped reading when you listed Obamacare as an accomplishment

    Hi (3946ac)

  46. Yeah I agree I rather have a man that openly espoused and told his supporters to getting in the faces of people that didn’t support him while implying most people didn’t like him because of racism is a great example for mankind. I mean the level of rhetoric in this nation has improved so much after 8 years of that., and we are a far more unified country!!

    Hi (3946ac)

  47. there’s like a half million dead syrians and millions more displaced cause of obama’s anti-american cowardice

    he was always just a slicked up harvardtrash coward and he polluted our once respectable military with trannies and other assorted losers (environmentalist slutboy greenie weenies)

    if i had to rate him on a scale where 10 was really good and 1 was the worst he would for sure get a 1

    that’s how bad obama sucks

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  48. Obama’s accomplished legacy is, in full:

    A) Obamacare

    B) Two Supreme Court justices

    C) Far superior example for mankind than his successor“

    I stopped reading when you listed Obamacare as an accomplishment

    Hi (3946ac) — 4/24/2018 @ 1:08 pm

    So you do not recognize that Obama made a promise the democrats had attempted to impose for decades, and actually managed to make it happen, with much negotiation on his own party, and a major supreme court case or three? This is a significant political accomplishment.

    Granted, actual conservatives find Obamacare to be an affront to personal liberty. No one said it was a positive conservative idea (except maybe Mitt Romney). But it did happen. I don’t see Trump accomplishing anything remotely on that level. So far, Trump has folded like a lawn chair on any controversial political campaign promise that requires an actual deal be made. Executive Orders are one thing. Obamacare level legislation? That’s another.

    Maybe Obama should write a book on the Art of the Deal and Trump can learn how it’s done?

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  49. there’s like a half million dead syrians and millions more displaced cause of obama’s anti-american cowardice

    I don’t think Obama did that. But you should consider Reagan’s bodycount in the middle east. If inaction is really the metric.

    Why are we supposed to be spending our blood and treasure to protect one of our enemies from another one of our enemies?

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  50. W has the biggest body count but he was also the dumbest president ever (dumb and murderous and killed a lot of our own mans)

    idiot

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  51. Why are we supposed to be spending our blood and treasure to protect one of our enemies from another one of our enemies?

    the idea is there was a window where we could have done something surgical and very helpful

    but once pussy obama let assad cross his red line the genocide was baked into the cake

    and he has to take the responsible for that cause that’s part of being president when there’s a genocide

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  52. “with much negotiation on his own party,“

    So someone with 60 votes in the senate, running around the country lying about what the bill would do anyway, should be congratulated for his “accomplishment”? He negotiated with his own party and barely passed it, and then immediately they all got tossed out in the next election cause everyone knew they were lying. But yeah ok such an accomplishment.

    Hi (3946ac)

  53. Largest bodycount by inaction is going to have to consider Mao, Stalin, and African genocide too, NeoNeocon Happyfeet. The Iran Iraq war was several times more bloody than Operation Iraqi Freedom (a successful effort that was squandered by Obama for the same partisan pettiness Trump fans cling to).

    Trump praised Stalin and Mao, but they killed tens of millions of people, conservatively (note: Much to Trump’s chagrin being a tough dictator is not conservative, and I mean the estimate is on the low end).

    Victims of Rwandan genocide are certainly in the seven figures.

    Victims of North Korean tyranny (from those Trump considers honorable) are also in the millions if you include starvation.

    W is one of the better presidents this nation will have in my lifetime.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  54. brb

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  55. He negotiated with his own party and barely passed it

    Right. It was a pretty tough fight if you consider the political size of such a thing, and it’s going to lead to single payer. This is huge for the socialist aspect of the democrat agenda. It required a lot of internal dealing with his own party to generate even unity, as many on the left wanted completely different bills. But they rallied together, which is necessary to accomplish something. Can Trump do this with the GOP? Of course he cannot. Absolutely zero legislators would put themselves on the line for Trump.

    then immediately they all got tossed out in the next election

    See, if you are too afraid to do what you believe in, or accomplish something costly, you won’t accomplish anything at all. The GOP’s complete fear of politics defines their empty list of real accomplishments. So far Trump only has appointments and EOs. No deals. No legislative victories. He couldn’t deal his way out of a wet paper bag.

    You’re just being obnoxious to misunderstand me and pretend I actually support Obamacare. I think it’s pathetic even for a troll named “hi.” But indeed, Obamacare is an incredible accomplishment for the left, and I can prove it: Despite literally tens of thousands of promises, the GOP is unable to simply undo Obamacare. Just a one line bill: The Affordable Care Act is repealed. The GOP cannot match the scale of Obama’s single accomplishment.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  56. “The GOP cannot match the scale of Obama’s single accomplishment.“

    It can be exceedingly difficult to fvck something up as much as that did, yes.

    Colonel Haiku (43fb26)

  57. don’t forget without help from sleazy corrupt harvardtrash ass-munch John Roberts obamacare would’ve been stopped cold

    but that’s what happens when you put trash like John Roberts on the court what hates the constitution

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  58. No, Trump did not throw Admiral Jackson under the bus.

    Judge for yourself from this rambling, incoherent 5:30 minute word salad:

    REPORTER: Your nominee to run the Veterans Affairs Administration, Dr. Ronny Jackson, has run into some serious political headwinds on Capitol Hill, with some serious allegations being leveled at him. I’m wondering what you know of those allegations and do you intend to stand behind him?

    TRUMP: I haven’t heard of the particular allegations but I will tell you, he is one of the finest people I have met. And I think, speaking for Melania, also, he’s been the doctor for President Obama, I believe for President Bush, for me, I’ve gotten to know him pretty well, he’s a great doctor, and there’s a suggestion, I know there’s an experience problem because lack of experience, but there’s an experience problem, the Veteran’s Administration is very important to me, we’ve done a great job with it, as you know, with the accountability act and many other things, now we’re working on choice, it’s gonna happen, we’re gonna take great care of our veterans, that’s a very important thing, and we’ve done a great job. But, I told Admiral Jackson just a little while ago, I said, “What do you need this for?” This is a vicious group of people that malign, and they do, and I lived through it, we all lived through it, you people are getting record ratings because of it, so congratulations. But I said, “What do you need it for?” He’s an admiral, a great leader, and they question him about every little thing. As you know, with the success of what will hopefully soon be Secretary of State Pompeo, everybody was very surprised, I heard ten minutes before the vote yesterday on committee that “he will not be approved at committee” which would be the first time in many, many decades that something like that would have happened with regard to a secretary of state, except I spoke to Rand Paul, and Rand Paul has really never let me down, Rand Paul is a good man, and, I knew things that nobody else knew, and Rand Paul said “I’m going to change my vote,” and he voted, and everybody was surprised, and he actually got an 11-to-9 vote, because as you know Johnny Isakson’s vote counts if it isn’t the deciding vote, so it was actually 11-to-9, with, I believe there was actually one … what would you call that John? … not present … oh, it’s called present? OK. So it was 11-to-9 and that was a terrific thing. But, they failed to stop him, so now, they say, “who’s next?” … “who’s next?” … And, this person, Admiral Jackson, Dr. Jackson, he’s a wonderful man, I said to him, “What do you need it for?” And as far as experience is concerned, the Veterans Administration, which is approximately 13 million people, is so big, you could run the biggest hospital system in the world and it’s small-time compared to the Veterans Administration. So nobody has the experience. What he is is a leader and a good man. But I told him, I said, “You know what, doc? You’re too fine a person.” His son is a top student at Annapolis. He’s a high-quality person. I said, “What do you need it for?” So, it’s totally his decision, but he’ll be making a decision. But they failed with Mike Pompeo, and that was a big, big hit because they thought they could stop him and embarrass. The Democrats have become obstructionists, that’s all they’re good at, they’re not good at anything else, they have bad ideas, they have bad politics, the one thing they do is obstruct. And that’s why, you would never believe this, I’m waiting for very good people like the ambassador to Germany, hasn’t been approved yet, it’s been there for eleven or twelve months, we have Angela Merkel coming to the United States on Friday, we still don’t have our ambassador approved, and at this rate, and many of the papers checked it out yesterday, and they actually said I was right, but it would be nine years before these people – we have hundreds of people who’ve been waiting to be approved and the Democrats are taking thirty hours per person, they’re taking the maximum time, they are obstructionists, that’s very bad for our country. I said to Dr. Jackson, “What do you need it for?” So, we’ll see what happens. I don’t want to put a man through, who’s not a political person, I don’t want to put a man through a process like this, it’s too ugly and too disgusting. So, we’ll see what happens. He’ll make a decision.

    REPORTER: So are you saying Mr. President that you will stand behind him?

    TRUMP: I would definitely stand behind him. He’s a fine man. I’ll always stand behind him. I’d let it be his choice. But here’s a man who has just been an extraordinary person. His family, extraordinary success, great doctor, great everything, and he has to listen the abuse? I wouldn’t. If I were him? actually, in many ways I’d love to be him. But the fact is, I wouldn’t do it. I wouldn’t do it. What does he need it for? To be abused by a bunch of politicians that aren’t thinking nicely about our country? I really don’t think personally he should do it but it’s totally his, I would stand behind him, totally his decision.

    Got that? “I really don’t think personally he should do it” (i.e. continue with the nomination process).

    Basically Trump never admits a mistake. So, “it’s his decision”.

    No, you lying, degenerate moron, it was YOUR decision to nominate somebody without the qualifications or experience and without vetting them.

    And “What do you need it for?” is apparently the new “No collusion”.

    I actually felt sorry for Macron, having to stand there through 5.5 minutes of that.

    Dave (445e97)

  59. then immediately they all got tossed out in the next election

    See, if you are too afraid to do what you believe in, or accomplish something costly, you won’t accomplish anything at all.

    So you think it’s an “accomplishment” when legislators vote against the will of the people who they are supposed to represent? I would consider that a defect and aboration of what the whole republic thing was supposed to be. I’m sure if all the republicans got together and outlawed Medicare, promptly lost every seat they had, you’d be hailing them as brave and applauding Trump for marching them off an electoral cliff. What a deal maker!

    Hi (3946ac)

  60. it was YOUR decision to nominate somebody without the qualifications or experience and without vetting them

    if the sleazy military felt he was qualified to be an admiral then he should be qualified to run some joke cabinet department like the VA

    but this is what you get for trusting the judgment of the sad sleazy corrupt US Military anymore

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  61. My understanding, from multiple sources, is that the Iran agreement includes extensive inspection rights of all nuclear facilities.

    Iran rejects U.S. demand for U.N. visit to military sites

    Iran has dismissed a U.S. demand for United Nations nuclear inspectors to visit its military bases as “merely a dream”….

    The U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, Nikki Haley, last week pressed the IAEA to seek access to Iranian military bases to ensure that they were not concealing activities banned by the 2015 nuclear deal reached between Iran and six major powers….

    Iranian government spokesman Mohammad Baqer Nobakht responded at a weekly news conference broadcast on state television on Tuesday.

    “Iran’s military sites are off limits,” he said. “All information about these sites are classified. Iran will never allow such visits. Don’t pay attention to such remarks that are only a dream.”

    Iranian President Hassan Rouhani followed up later by saying the U.S. call was unlikely to be accepted by the U.N. nuclear watchdog.

    “The International Atomic Energy Agency is very unlikely to accept America’s demand to inspect our military sites,” Rouhani said in a televised interview.

    Rouhani gave no indication why he believed the IAEA would decline the request. Under the deal, the IAEA can request access to Iranian sites including military ones if it has concerns about activities there that violate the agreement, but it must show Iran the basis for those concerns.

    That means new and credible information pointing to such a violation is required first, officials from the agency and major powers say. There is no indication that Washington has presented such information to back up its call for inspections of Iranian military sites.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-nuclear-usa/iran-rejects-u-s-demand-for-u-n-visit-to-military-sites-idUSKCN1B918E

    And of source there’s a process that must be satisfied for these “for-cause” inspections. Long enough to cart the offending violation elsewhere.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  62. *of course

    Kevin M (752a26)

  63. here we go this is the Jackson thing in a nutshell i guess

    what a loser I keep telling Mr. Trump to stop hiring out of the military cesspool and I think he’s starting to get it

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  64. Hi believes in direct democracy instead of leadership and political dealmaking.

    I’m sure if all the republicans got together and outlawed Medicare, promptly lost every seat they had, you’d be hailing them as brave and applauding Trump for marching them off an electoral cliff. What a deal maker!

    If the GOP had the balls to actually stand for entitlement reform in any shape, and they got something passed for the good of the nation, instead of just paying off voters with enormous debt because that is easy and popular, yes, I absolutely would hail them as brave and applaud the president if he did have something to do with this.

    Trump is very much not conservative on spending so I am unclear on why you included him in this awesome scenario.

    All I was hoping for was that one-line “Affordable Care Act is repealed.” You better believe a few Republicans would lose their seat for voting yes to that. Maybe they could find other bills and issues to run on, maybe they couldn’t. You can’t base right and wrong decisions completely on their popularity. Your moral compass has been destroyed by a couple years of Trump support.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  65. Lefty media is full of “smart-takes” and “deep-dives” featuring counter-intuitive conclusions. It makes lefties smarter than everybody else, because they know the nuanced truth the rest of us rubes can’t comprehend. That’s why they believe Cuba’s healthcare is better than that in the USA, the Soviet Union wasn’t as bad as everybody says it is, Palestinians don’t foment and finance terrorists, Republicans are nazis, etc, etc. Anything that’s plain-@ss obviously true is a conspiracy theory if it’s outside their bubble.

    My (ex-) gf reads all that crap, Vox, Politico, HuffPo, blah blah. She refuses to get flu shots because she read a smart-take that flu shots are only 2% effective, and she believes it. I steer her to the CDC site; she doesn’t care, because she’s smart and informed.

    gp (0c542c)

  66. No it doesn’t, what planet are you living on?

    From Wikipedia (extensive citations in origial removed for readability):

    A comprehensive inspections regime will be implemented in order to monitor and confirm that Iran is complying with its obligations and is not diverting any fissile material.

    The IAEA will have multilayered oversight “over Iran’s entire nuclear supply chain, from uranium mills to its procurement of nuclear-related technologies”. For declared nuclear sites such as Fordow and Natanz, the IAEA will have “round-the-clock access” to nuclear facilities and will be entitled to maintain continuous monitoring (including via surveillance equipment) at such sites. The agreement authorizes the IAEA to make use of sophisticated monitoring technology, such as fiber-optic seals on equipment that can electronically send information to the IAEA; infrared satellite imagery to detect covert sites, “environmental sensors that can detect minute signs of nuclear particles”; tamper-resistant, radiation-resistant cameras. Other tools include computerized accounting programs to gather information and detect anomalies, and big data sets on Iranian imports, to monitor dual-use items.

    The number of IAEA inspectors assigned to Iran will triple, from 50 to 150 inspectors.

    If IAEA inspectors have concerns that Iran is developing nuclear capabilities at any non-declared sites, they may request access “to verify the absence of undeclared nuclear materials and activities or activities inconsistent with” the agreement, informing Iran of the basis for their concerns. The inspectors would only come from countries with which Iran has diplomatic relations. Iran may admit the inspectors to such site or propose alternatives to inspection that might satisfy the IAEA’s concerns. If such an agreement cannot be reached, a process running to a maximum of 24 days is triggered. Under this process, Iran and the IAEA have 14 days to resolve disagreements among themselves. If they fail to, the Joint Commission (including all eight parties) would have one week in which to consider the intelligence which initiated the IAEA request. A majority of the Commission (at least five of the eight members) could then inform Iran of the action that it would be required to take within three more days. The majority rule provision “means the United States and its European allies—Britain, France, Germany and the EU—could insist on access or any other steps and that Iran, Russia or China could not veto them”. If Iran did not comply with the decision within three days, sanctions would be automatically reimposed under the snapback provision

    One can and should argue whether the agreement was in our interests without lying about it.

    Wikipedia also links to the full text of the agreement.

    Dave (445e97)

  67. Trump is very much not conservative on spending

    he’s tried to do many cuts yes he has

    and where he has discretion he’s not spent available monies in places (hiring prison guards and such)

    plus he wants to do rescission too

    even a small rescission would establish a powerful precedent yes yes it would (I love President Trump)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  68. And of source there’s a process that must be satisfied for these “for-cause” inspections. Long enough to cart the offending violation elsewhere.

    So you’ve gone from (falsely) claiming we can’t inspect anything, to claiming we have to go through a process (maximum 24 day duration) that we and our allies control.

    In the quote you linked, Haley was basically calling for unilaterally changing the agreement, not enforcing the agreement that exists:

    That means new and credible information pointing to such a violation is required first, officials from the agency and major powers say. There is no indication that Washington has presented such information to back up its call for inspections of Iranian military sites.

    In other words, it was a dishonest PR stunt.

    Dave (445e97)

  69. he’s tried to do many cuts yes he has

    He didn’t promise to try to balance the budget. He didn’t promise to try to end Obamacare.

    He actually mad clear that we should support him over the Republicans that wouldn’t get results. He’s supposed to be making deals. Bush had more competency at the ‘results’ thing I suppose. It takes people skills to negotiate.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  70. No, Trump did not throw Admiral Jackson under the bus.

    nk (dbc370) — 4/24/2018 @ 12:59 pm

    Bill Frist is a doctor and the best thing he did as Majority Leader was give a guy CPR.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  71. Hey
    Where will you be waking up tomorrow morning?
    Hey
    Out the back door goddamn but I love him anyway (hey)
    I love him anyway (hey)
    I love him anyway (hey)
    Out the back door goddamn but I love him anyway
    Admiral Jackson, Admiral Jackson, Admiral Jackson
    Are you nasty?

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  72. Mr. Dustin you’re hard on President Trump but deep down I think you know we really lucked out getting him to be president not piggy-boobs

    we have an ocean of possibility on which to sail into a brighter future

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  73. So, how many corrections has Facebook’s so-called news presented?

    Zero or close to it.

    Tillman (a95660)

  74. Trump’s foreign policy record is probably the worst in modern history… Trump’s failure has equally massive implications. We don’t yet really know what degree of collusion did exist between him and the Soviets…

    And here I almost stop caring what you think, because you are totally fever-addled to the point you give Infowars a run for its money.

    Trump has, in less than a year, crushed ISIS, pushed back against Russian war crimes in Syria (but clearly a crypto-collusion, eh?), brought North Korea to the negotiating table, made China offer concessions on trade (with more to come as you cannot put duties on commodities), and put Mexico on notice that their encouragement of illegal immigration will not be tolerated.

    Where has he failed? Other than in not getting the Press to like him or report fairly?

    No wall? No deportation of 11 million illegals? Those aren’t foreign policy, but if you insist on it, I’m sure he could arrange both.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  75. If the GOP had the balls to actually stand for entitlement reform in any shape, and they got something passed for the good of the nation, instead of just paying off voters with enormous debt because that is easy and popular, yes, I absolutely would hail them as brave and applaud the president if he did have something to do with this.

    The Ryan plan did all of this, but the Democrats would not vote for it, so it was blocked by the gold bugs and such loonies on the Right.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  76. The comprehensive inspection regime has tons and tons of asterisks. Like we have to prove probable cause to the satisfaction of the regime that’s hiding stuff.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  77. You reference wiki as a source? I’ll stick with what’s I’ve read and Kevin M’s posted Material. Whatever live in your fantasy world where the Iran deal was anything other than a “tie the hands of future presidents to go to war until Iran gets the bomb” extravaganza

    Hi (3946ac)

  78. Mr. Dustin you’re hard on President Trump but deep down I think you know we really lucked out getting him to be president not piggy-boobs

    we have an ocean of possibility on which to sail into a brighter future

    happyfeet

    You’re right actually. Trump has exceeded what I thought he’s do when it comes to judicial appointments. Otherwise he’s quite terrible, but Hillary would have been terrible AND made lifelong appointments that would harm my views on our civil rights.

    There is a price, though, and it’s going to be years before it’s clear to me what that is. Maybe Dave’s right and the GOP won’t win elections for a long time, meaning the other side dominates appointments anyway. Maybe not, as the democrats are so hostile to so many Americans they are squandering their golden opportunity.

    Either way, this isn’t just about the damn 2016 election, and though I understand the insecurity of Trump fans needing to prove the American people were wrong to reject Trump, my criticism of Trump doesn’t hinge on Hillary. At all.

    Dustin (ba94b2)


  79. 75.So, how many corrections has Facebook’s so-called news presented?

    Zero or close to it.
    Tillman (a95660) — 4/24/2018 @ 2:28 pm


    It may be just a coincidence but isn’t that the same number of corrections as Pravda?

    Rev.Hoagie (1b0402)

  80. The Ryan plan did all of this, but the Democrats would not vote for it, so it was blocked by the gold bugs and such loonies on the Right.

    Kevin M

    True. I gave Ryan a lot of credit for this at the time, right here if you recall. Ultimately the GOP just doesn’t really stand for reform.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  81. ok well he’s president now so might as well make the most of it

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  82. And here I almost stop caring what you think, because you are totally fever-addled to the point you give Infowars a run for its money.

    Kevin, I missed this insult from you. I wish you would turn that partisan idiocy around man. You’re a smart guy but you just won’t think beyond Team R Team D. Trump has been an enormous embarrassment to our nation, and North Korea is actually a very good example, though obviously Russia is the better one.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  83. Ultimately the GOP just doesn’t really stand for reform.

    why does Meghan’s coward daddy still draw a paycheck if he’s not able to perform the duties of his job

    it’s a very sleazy operation, this Congress thing is

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  84. Some of you seem to just gloss over the fact, unmistakable fact, that Obama thru his campaign style (go my minions and get in peoples faces, I’m with these BLM people rioting!) and full on endorsement of slandering most of his opposition as racist basically is 95% responsible directly for the way most Americans of different politics stripes now hate each other. But yeah Trump! He says mean things on Twitter about his political opponents. Talk to me when he calls Democrat voters communists and insists they only disagree with him because he’s not black.

    Hi (3946ac)

  85. My understanding, from multiple sources, is that the Iran agreement includes extensive inspection rights of all nuclear facilities. So I think you are misinformed here.

    Dave (445e97) — 4/24/2018 @ 1:02 pm

    After we give notice in the basement of an office on Alpha Centari…

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  86. It can be exceedingly difficult to fvck something up as much as that did, yes.

    Colonel Haiku (43fb26) — 4/24/2018 @ 1:42 pm

    You can’t make Vast Improvements with Half-Vast Ideas.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  87. The difference between doctor-administrators and lawyer-administrators is lawyers don’t know for sure they are gods.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  88. Wikipedia also links to the full text of the agreement.

    Dave (445e97) — 4/24/2018 @ 1:58 pm

    Yes, let them enforce it.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  89. why does Meghan’s coward daddy still draw a paycheck if he’s not able to perform the duties of his job

    it’s a very sleazy operation, this Congress thing is

    happyfeet (28a91b) — 4/24/2018 @ 2:47 pm

    Do you think he’s double-dipping disability?

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  90. “Either way, this isn’t just about the damn 2016 election, and though I understand the insecurity of Trump fans needing to prove the American people were wrong to reject Trump, my criticism of Trump doesn’t hinge on Hillary. At all.”

    Generally seen as underwater, below the surface things are very different for Trump. President Trump elicits strong reactions from two-thirds of America’s electorate. Yet among the one-third in neither camp, the president is quietly doing quite well.

    Rasmussen’s 4/16 daily tracking poll, the same polling closest to 2016’s popular vote, gave interesting insight into President Trump’s support. Overall, Trump’s job approval rating was 51 percent (48 percent disapproval). Among the hardcore, his strong support was 35 percent; his strong disapproval: 39 percent.

    On the surface, these results are unexciting… until compared to 2016’s actual results. In 2016, Trump received just 46.1 percent of the popular vote. Rasmussen’s 4/16 results put him five percent ahead of what won him the presidency.

    Also, Rasmussen’s 4/16 hardcore results closely mimic 2016 exit polling.

    https://spectator.org/trumps-below-the-surface-strength/

    Colonel Haiku (43fb26)

  91. Do you think he’s double-dipping disability?

    at minimum that’s what he’s doing but he’s also probably doing lots of nefarious stuff too on top of that

    he’s not a good man he has his own agenda

    and America always suffers for it

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  92. did you notice all 4 of the 4 Rs in Congress who’ve called for Mr. Pruitt are members of Meghan’s coward daddy’s soros-funded Republican Main Street Partnership including dirty prostitute Elise Stefanik

    it’s true

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  93. who’ve called for Mr. Pruitt *to resign* i mean

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  94. Dustin, did you vote for Obama?

    ropelight (51abd8)

  95. No, I certainly didn’t and I’m amused you’re asking. I worked for the campaign against him in 2008, but even Mccain was very much holding my nose in support. My foremost interest politically is that spending go down and our autonomy as individuals be respected. Obama is antithetical to these priorities, much like Trump.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  96. You reference wiki as a source? I’ll stick with what’s I’ve read and Kevin M’s posted Material.

    Sorry for citing facts, with links to the original source documents, instead of “what you’ve read”. You apparently don’t even know enough to point out a single specific error or inaccuracy in the information I cited.

    What Kevin posted referred to exactly what is in the wiki. The US, France, Britain, Germany and the EU can, upon providing evidence, require Iran to give inspectors access to any site that isn’t already under 24×7 surveillance, and if Iran refuses, sanctions are automatically re-imposed.

    Dave (445e97)

  97. It may be just a coincidence but isn’t that the same number of corrections as Pravda?

    And the Trump White House too.

    Dave (445e97)

  98. Dustin,

    There is utterly no reason behind your apparent belief that Trump has a dubble-sekrit deal with Putin to subvert Truth, Justice and the American Way. It’s nutbar crazy, yet you PERSIST in it with no evidence at all. I compare this to Infowars because they, too, engage in this kind of gobbledygook.

    If it sounds like an insult, sorry, but I do not feel that humoring you is any kindness.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  99. After we give notice in the basement of an office on Alpha Centari…

    Sadly, there’s a leopard.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  100. Kevin M you are dealing with people who have been on a drip-feed of Political Correctness Kool-Aid for all their schooling and now adult years. Do you think they even consider they could be wrong when dealing with and evil deplorable like you? You’re talking to Sorosbots, todays “useful idiots”.

    Rev.Hoagie (1b0402)

  101. Kevin, sometimes I think you might be projecting the feverish aspect of some of your responses. I hope you have a wonderful evening but I’m just not up for this sort of BS anymore. It’s really on your republicans to win me over, and do decide if it’s worth the effort. If you don’t want to represent my interests, that’s democracy too.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  102. Dustin, I don’t much like Trump. Until he was nominated, and maybe until he was elected, I wanted nothing to do with him. His election is only preferred because the party he represents (even now) stands for at least some things that I beleive in. The other one doews not, and is growing increasingly insane.

    I do NOT believe that partisanship is an evil thing, and I will NOT apologize for it. I think that those who think that THEY alone have the Truth and refuse to join a team are the deluded ones, since the world only cares what the teams are doing.

    Instead of attacking Trump and giving him the sh1t-end of the doubt, stop and look at the Democrat party for a moment. Consider them in power. Consider how much worse off EVERY thing you believe would be. Consider the direction their party is heading. Look a tthe state of California to see what would happen if they had utter control.

    Given that, does it really matter that Trump can’t use the right spoon for soup?

    Kevin M (752a26)

  103. Dustin, your praise for Obama’s signature accomplishment (ObamaCare) is antithetical to your stated foremost political interests: reduced government spending and greater individual autonomy. Think it over – could be you’ve got your account in the wrong bank.

    ropelight (51abd8)

  104. We don’t yet really know what degree of collusion did exist between him and the Soviets (why bother pretending they aren’t?). But on some level, I do think his campaign made a deal with the devil, and only die-hard Team R partisans can forgive that.

    Dustin–

    As for my projection, how does one interpret the above other than you think that Trump colluded with the Russians to subvert the election, and continues to do so as part of their “deal with the devil.”

    That you assert than any Republican that DENIES this is so partisan they cannot see the TRUTH that is so obvious to you calls into question your reasoning ability in this area.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  105. “Affordable Care Act”: a cynical name if ever there was one. It’s like calling Japanese internment the Japanese Affordable Housing Act.

    I am living this year without medical insurance for the first time in maybe 30 years. Why? Because the premiums for the LEAST costly Obamacare policy (a catastrophic plan) would be $20K this year and that policy pays for NOTHING. All it does is cap any ADDITIONAL (in-plan, narrow-network) losses to $15K.

    Now there are better policies, but the very best of them is one that our host’s co-workers would go on strike if their employer forced it on them. And THAT one would be over $40K in premiums, with an additional $15K possible for a major illness.

    Oh, they say, what about subsidies? Well the subsidies are capped by a fixed income level while the premiums increase by age. At my age the subsidy cliff is about $12K deep. One additional dollar, $12K of tax credit lost. Of course if you get them, you are insulated from the rampant medical inflation that Obamacare has caused. It’s a great time to be a welfare recipient.

    Next year, Medicare and eff ya all.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  106. Dustin, your praise for Obama’s signature accomplishment (ObamaCare) is antithetical to your stated foremost political interests: reduced government spending and greater individual autonomy. Think it over – could be you’ve got your account in the wrong bank.

    ropelight (51abd8) — 4/24/2018 @ 5:12 pm

    That makes no sense, and is pretty typical obnoxious internet debate these days. I don’t have to agree with an accomplishment’s ultimate purpose to recognize it is a significant political accomplishment. If you’re so blinded by devotion to your political party that the strides your opponents have made, then no wonder the GOP is so lost these days. I never said I liked Obamacare, and you obviously have been having enough conversations with me for the past ten years that you’re aware of this. But I also recognize it’s a Obama’s singular legislative feat, and it’s something the GOP promised repeatedly it would undo.

    Kevin,

    Your allcaps “TRUTH” is a dishonest paraphrase. I said “forgive”. You’re smart enough to know better, but I’ve long ago learned not to trust die hard partisans.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  107. That you assert than any Republican that DENIES this is so partisan they cannot see the TRUTH that is so obvious to you calls into question your reasoning ability in this area.

    Trump’s son, son-in-law and campaign manager have confessed to it…

    Trump himself stood in front of a TV camera and urged the Russian intelligence agencies to commit specific crimes on his behalf…

    Dave (445e97)

  108. Dustin, you say “partisan” as if it were a bad word. There is no “I” in team. Again, though you do not address your delusion that Trump and Putin conspired to defeat Hillary.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  109. teIam

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  110. Trump’s son, son-in-law and campaign manager have confessed to it…

    The campaign manager has confessed to working with the Ukraine on other matters BEFORE he was campaign manager. The others have “confessed” to talking to people who said they had dirt on Hillary, then walking away when it became clear that it was a lie. If you think that political people hide when someone says they have dirt on their opponent, then maybe you need to get out more.

    We’ve been over this before. You take an innuendo and make a grand conspiracy from it. Not interested.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  111. Dustin, you say “partisan” as if it were a bad word.

    Yes, of course. I’m with George Washington on this one.

    Again, though you do not address your delusion that Trump and Putin conspired to defeat Hillary.

    Actually, you’re the one being delusional. I made clear I don’t actually know the ultimate truth of this matter, and suspect Trump. You’re the one asserting certainty. Because you are a dishonest person. Same reason you have changed the content of my comments as I explained above. Partisanship generates hacks. You don’t love truth or country.

    There is no “I” in team.

    My team isn’t the a bunch of suits trying to win power from democrats. It’s my country. You and ropelight have shown terrible personal integrity today.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  112. Trump himself stood in front of a TV camera and urged the Russian intelligence agencies to commit specific crimes on his behalf…

    Dave

    Yeah, that’s right, he did. Kevin is allcaps freaking out that anyone would believe their lying eyes and not know Trump is innocent. Fake news or something.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  113. Dustin-

    “Forgive”??!?!?!

    What you talkin’ about? You say “I do think his campaign made a deal with the devil” and having asserted this thought from your brow, you continue that “only die-hard Team R partisans can forgive that.”

    I asserted that you were calling the Republican Party out for not acknowledging your “TRUTH”. IF anything my paraphrase lessened the craziness of your assertion.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  114. You know, it’s funny how dishonest people keep talking after their word doesn’t carry any weight. I wonder how much of the country has completely tuned out both parties for this reason. It must get tiring.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  115. Dave and Dustin. Sockpuppets, or near enough. Trump indeed suggested that any dirt the Russians wanted to dump on Hillary was OK by him. SO WHAT?!!

    Not one thing that Wikileaks published has been shown to be untrue. It was terrible for Hillary that her very dirty laundry came out, particularly the bits about rigging the Democrat primaries, and getting fed debate questions, but why are we not THANKING Wikileaks for their service?

    And Assange denies the information came from the Russians. As “proof” we only have the assertions of Democrat partisans (the good partisans, I guess) like Clapper and Brennan — who both lied before Congress to hide their own crap.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  116. I don’t know Dustin, why do you keep talking? All you need to post is “Trump Bad!” The rest is just window-dressing.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  117. If you think that political people hide when someone says they have dirt on their opponent, then maybe you need to get out more.

    When that “someone” is the intelligence agent of a hostile foreign dictatorship, they had better hide, or be prepared for the consequences.

    Dave (445e97)

  118. D-Bag hires D-Bag…

    “[James] Comey hires his close friend and former U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald as one of his personal lawyers. Fitzgerald also served as the special counsel in the investigation into Scooter Libby, as authorized by Comey, who was Deputy AG at the time.”

    —- Nick Short

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  119. Kevin, it pays to do your homework on traditional Medicare vs Medicare Advantage Plans. The best option in my neck of the woods is Universal HealthCare’s ‘Preferred Provider’ plan.

    No monthly premiums beyond the required deduction from your Social Security check (under $125/mo), no deductibles, $15 to see your primary physician, $35 to see a specialist in the network, very modest co-pays for generic meds, ER, ambulance, and hospital coverage plus dental maintenance, hearing and eye exams, and more.

    Good luck.

    ropelight (51abd8)

  120. It must help you at night to know that everyone who disagrees with you,or looks at politics as a GOOD thing, is somehow just a dishonest and evil person, throwing darkness on the path of honor you tread.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  121. ropelight–

    I did my homework once with my mother (DPoA). There are good and bad things about Medicare Advantage. It seems best for 1) people no longer able to make medical decisions, or 2) people who really need to cut costs. If at all possible I hope that one of the supplements will work better.

    But for someone 64, the Affordable Care Act is a sick joke.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  122. OTOH, if UCLA has a medicare advantage plan, I might look into it.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  123. When that “someone” is the intelligence agent of a hostile foreign dictatorship, they had better hide, or be prepared for the consequences.

    And when that became clear, and that it was a false flag operation, they did walk out.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  124. And Assange denies the information came from the Russians. As “proof” we only have the assertions of Democrat partisans (the good partisans, I guess) like Clapper and Brennan — who both lied before Congress to hide their own crap.

    It’s not Clapper and Brennan’s word. It’s the assessment of the US intelligence community, including the CIA and Homeland Security Department.

    But you believe the Russians’ denials over our own people, since the Russians are on your “team”, I guess.

    Dave (445e97)

  125. Good piece over in the WSJ.

    The Elitists’ Trump Excuse
    His critics may be more corrupting to democracy and decency than he is.

    Some detect in Mr. Trump’s brand of vituperation an assault on the values and virtues that democracy requires to thrive. In this line of thinking, Mr. Trump is morally unfit for the Oval Office. Some speak even more darkly. In her new book, former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright says the world today has become a “petri dish” for fascism, calls Mr. Trump “the least democratic president of modern history” and notes that Mussolini, too, promised to “drain the swamp.”

    There is, however, a flip side to Mr. Trump’s speech and behavior. It has to do with the willingness of those who know better (or ought to know better) to look the other way so long as Mr. Trump is the target. So which is more damaging to the American body politic—the schoolyard taunts and threats of Mr. Trump, or the anti-Trump opportunism of “polite” society?

    The election and its aftermath have been an education in how the smart set responds when the American people refuse the judgment of their self-styled betters. In its most honest form, it is the “Resist!” movement. In the more genteel version, it turns out to mean not just opposing Mr. Trump’s policies, which people can reasonably do, but throwing fairness and principle to the wind so long as it might help bring down the 45th president.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-elitists-trump-excuse-1524524140

    It’s behind their paywall, so use the DDG trick if you aren’t a subscriber.

    Anon Y. Mous (6cc438)

  126. In its most honest form, it is the “Resist!” movement. In the more genteel version, it turns out to mean not just opposing Mr. Trump’s policies, which people can reasonably do, but throwing fairness and principle to the wind so long as it might help bring down the 45th president.

    Hmm, I thought the TrumpWorld position was that all tactics, however dirty, dishonest, unfair or unprincipled, are justified in achieving one’s political goals.

    Am I to understand that Trump’s cheerleaders who revel in every lie, insult, low blow or affront to basic human decency on his part still expect everyone else to play by Marquess of Queensbury Rules?

    Dave (445e97)

  127. Those who oppose Trump are the ones who have been illegally using the levers of government to attempt to bring Trump down. Trump however has not abused his position nor used any of the agencies under his command in any illegal attempts to go after his enemies.

    However, he has tweeted at them rudely.

    Anon Y. Mous (6cc438)

  128. Dave, I need you to drop what you’re doing right now and call the Mark Levin Radio Show immediately. Tell him or Mr Producer to change the battery in his CO detector. It’s a matter of life and death.

    Get this, he just said that Trump’s foreign policy has been an incredible success by any metric.

    Any Reagan Conservative Constitutional Lawyer that makes a statement like that is under duress or out of his damn mind, am I right?

    I’m counting on you man.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  129. ConDave

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  130. He just ain’t been the same since he got let go by the all-gurl band in Manchester

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  131. Boy, Mark Levin was really going off on a federal judge named John Bates, of the DC Circuit Bates. He must work with Merrick Garland.

    Mr Levin, if the EMT’s are reviving you right now, I really must tell you how your intemperate remarks are eroding the public trust in The Rule of Law and our sacred courts. People might start thinking that judges just make sh*t up.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  132. If he is in fact John Bates, late of Downton Abbey ca 1917, then he must be bathing in virgin’s blood or something.

    Where do you buy your pizza, sir?

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  133. Colonel Haiku, you forget yourself sir! Mr Dave performs a valuable service as the proverbial bat in a guano mine.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  134. Mr Levin, if the EMT’s are reviving you right now, I really must tell you how your intemperate remarks are eroding the public trust in The Rule of Law and our sacred courts.

    Just you and his two other listeners, Pinandpuller. The homeless lady who hangs around my local 7-Eleven has a larger audience and more coherent rants. (I listened to him for about five minutes on my car radio out of curiosity one time.)

    nk (dbc370)

  135. Levin sounds like a “serious” Gilbert Gottfried.

    urbanleftbehind (801828)

  136. nk

    LOL, you and Michael Savage sound like brothers under the skin.

    Pinandpuller (f2928d)

  137. Yeah, that voice is hard for me to take. That and the inflated self regard is hilarious at first, but over time you realize he’s being serious. He’s better than Hannity I guess, but these days if you can’t play podcasts in your car you deserve what you get with the grandpas on the radio.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  138. You’re not wrong. I do a certain amount of intermittent fasting as it were but I have a lot of windshield time.

    Pinandpuller (f2928d)

  139. Levin had an excellent hour long interview of Sen. Mike Lee several weeks back on his Sunday night TV show. Naysayers couldn’t hold a candle to him. It’s nice to hear some wisdom when there are so many self-interested, lost-their-way, ninnies out there in the media, young and old.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  140. @59. I actually felt sorry for Macron, having to stand there through 5.5 minutes of that.

    Wait ’til he’s asked if he’s up for a foursome for dessert– or will he give it the dandruff brushoff, instead.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  141. See you guys, if I didn’t listen to talk radio now and then I wouldn’t know that Dr Savage went to the State Dinner. I wouldn’t have listened to his sub Brian Sussman talking about Gavin Newsome. I wouldn’t know GN had an affair with a secretary that was actually his friend’s wife. I wouldn’t know that GN said he had an alcohol problem and did phone in rehab. I wouldn’t know that he got over his problem with alcohol and enjoys a glass of wine now and then.

    That explains why President Trump had a maxi pad stuck to his neck.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  142. I’m not even listening to political crap. Who cares? It’s a wreck right now and it’s going to stay that way for a long time. Thanks GOP! Why should I wallow in outrage about how the damn libruls are gonna take our jerbs or whatever every single day? Oh man, did you hear what some guy wrote that’s absolutely infuriating? Let’s get real mad about it all day!

    I’d rather listen to the potato peeler show.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  143. Who said anything about political crap. Lee and Levin talked mainly about principles and how important it is to share knowledge of/respect and love for the U.S. Constitution.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  144. Return to nihilism and hippiedumb.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  145. Snopes used to be interesting for calling out Internet hoaxes, but it has gotten pretty political and slanted left (hired a Democratic writer). It is pretty easy to have things with a political spin by setting up strawmen to debunk from one side and not the other. (Guy running the site is pretty sketchy too…some snaky financial stuff.)

    Anonymous (d41cee)

  146. “the fact, unmistakable fact, that Obama thru his campaign style (go my minions and get in peoples faces, I’m with these BLM people rioting!) and full on endorsement of slandering most of his opposition as racist basically is 95% responsible directly for the way most Americans of different politics stripes now hate each other.”

    Hear, hear! This, this!

    gp (0c542c)

  147. @144 Dustin

    If you like music Mr Patterico made a fine recommendation of Professor Greenberg’s lectures on Bach and the High Baroque. If you like history Dan Carlin has a fine Hardcore History Podcast.

    Pinandpuller (f2928d)

  148. What I don’t understand is why people have to make up sh1t to attack Trump. He seems quite capable of providing sufficient ammunition himself. There are a lot of things I cannot, and will not, defend him on, usually matters of not keeping his mouth shut, or some of his cruder episodes. I also have some policy differences.

    But I sincerely doubt he is the crudest man to hold the office, not the least truthful. A low bar I admit, but a bar others deny. Remember that only TWO presidents have had instant mass communication available 24&7 and the other one was such a cold fish he didn’t talk to schoolchildren without a teleprompter.

    The problem I have with a couple of folks here, though, is that they believe any damn thing said against Trump, no matter what the source, no matter the evidence or lack thereof. All they seem to care about is “does it paint Trump in a bad light.” If someone posted that Trump had sex with space aliens, they’d not reject it out of hand.

    And when they do that, all I can think is “There you go again.”

    Kevin M (752a26)

  149. Two questions to Dave and Dustin:

    1) why do you think Trump won the nomination?
    2) why do you think he won the election?

    It wasn’t all Russian mind-control rays.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  150. And, Dustin, if you think I revel in all of Trumps many many lies, missteps, poor thinking or endless faux pas, then you are REALLY not paying attention.

    But instead of setting off a tirade, as it does some (and me, too, on occasion), it basically makes me sad. I still favor the basic goals of the GOP, and oppose the basic goals of the Democrats. Trump muddles them some. The parts of the GOP that I disfavor are raised up by Trump and that’s not good. But even those parts of the GOP that are most noxious are better than the direction the Democrats would choose. Such as Bernie’s 80% tax rates and free everything for everyone.

    Did you know in my state (CA) they want to CRIMINALIZE any therapy of folks who are sexually confused? Freud is spinning pretty fast about now.

    Did you know that using the wrong pronoun to describe one of however-many genders is borderline illegal, and can get you expelled in some colleges?

    Did you know that they are destroying single-family neighborhoods with 5-story apartment developments allowed on R-1 lots, and the city rules be damned? And just failed at a law making it 8-stories. Apparently these houses cost too much and the neighborhoods are too white.

    So, yes, I hope that Trump can force this tide back some, particularly by remaking the Courts. I lament that it IS Trump and not someone like Cruz or Romney who has a brain and the ability to walk and chew gum, but that’s not the world I am given.

    So, I accept what is and try to work with it. It’s better than being angry all the time.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  151. And I really have no patience for those who will pick up any stone, no matter the provenance or the weight, and throw it out of spite and hate.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  152. Blue wave falters in AZ 8th special congressional election. GOP by 6%.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  153. If there is a dearth of black judges on the higher courts it could be because they are all on TV.

    Pinandpuller (20c765)

  154. Did you know in my state (CA) they want to CRIMINALIZE any therapy of folks who are sexually confused?

    That’s not true. The bill seeks to make efforts to change a person’s sexual orientation unlawful. There is an explicit exception for forms of therapy that do not do that:

    “Sexual orientation change efforts” does not include psychotherapies that: (A) provide acceptance, support, and understanding of clients or the facilitation of clients’ coping, social support, and identity exploration and development, including sexual orientation-neutral interventions to prevent or address unlawful conduct or unsafe sexual practices; and (B) do not seek to change sexual orientation.

    (I think the bill is pretty loopy, but you are mis-characterizing it)

    Dave (445e97)

  155. I’d say turn the lights off on the way out, Kevin, but there’s occasional good news:

    SACRAMENTO — Sources confirm that the Sacramento County Sheriff’s Department is working a significant break in the search for the East Area Rapist.

    A possible arrest in the decadeslong case may have been made. The department said it hopes to release further information Wednesday.

    Police believe the East Area Rapist or Golden State Killer was responsible for 12 homicides, almost 50 rapes and 120 home burglaries that spanned a decade starting in the late 1970s in Sacramento County.

    “It is the most prolific unsolved serial killing case probably in modern history,” said Sacramento County District Attorney Anne Marie Schubert.

    Fox

    Pinandpuller (20c765)

  156. Blue wave falters in AZ 8th special congressional election. GOP by 6%.

    It’s 5.2%. In a district Trump won by 21% and Romney won by 25%…

    (It’s where my mother’s residence in the US was during the last 20 years of her life, as well).

    In the nine House/Senate special elections during the Trump Reign of Error, the average Democratic swing is +16%…

    Dave (445e97)

  157. It’s a special election with 30% turnout. In 2016 there were over 300K votes. If the Left was to rise up and overcome in a GOP district, it would be when the Right was asleep, like in a special election. They could not even get to within 20,000 of their 2016 vote, when they lost 2-1.

    This is about the 9th special congressional election, and just about the only ones the Dems have won were when the GOP candidate was a rapist or something.

    Of course, with “life-long-Republicans” like Dave pulling the Blue lever (again), maybe there’s a chance.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  158. Kim du Toit says what I’m too polite to say. (language warning)

    Kevin M (752a26)

  159. “Sexual orientation change efforts” does not include psychotherapies that: (A) provide acceptance, support, and understanding of clients or the facilitation of clients’ coping, social support, and identity exploration and development, including sexual orientation-neutral interventions to prevent or address unlawful conduct or unsafe sexual practices; and (B) do not seek to change sexual orientation.

    So, a guy goes to the therapist. Says “I’m unhappy with life. I think I’m gay.” Under this law, the therapist cannot explore ANY avenue or approach that might explore the possibility that he is not, in fact, gay.

    It is pretty common to find people arriving in AA, totally blitzed out of the minds by booze and drugs, who are convinced of all kinds of crazy (and untrue) things about themselves. But again, even suggesting that their transient sexual indentification may be becasue their brain if full of drugs is now illegal.

    Why? Because of a FALSE and unscientific theory that it is impossible to be wrong about one’s sexual identification. Even if you say your gender is “tree.”

    Kevin M (752a26)

  160. Two questions to Dave and Dustin:

    1) why do you think Trump won the nomination?
    2) why do you think he won the election?

    It wasn’t all Russian mind-control rays.

    He is an exceptional liar and con-man, and succeeded in tapping into white working-class peoples’ resentment that they are no longer assured the economic advantages over similarly-uneducated Latinos and blacks that they had traditionally enjoyed.

    Trading on his trash-TV and tabloid celebrity Trump somehow convinced these people that he, a dissolute billionaire playboy who had lived the life of a prince and never lifted a hand in manual labor during his entire life, was their champion who would bring back what were once good-paying unskilled jobs that are now being done by unskilled labor in the third world and robots. And many other ridiculous things, like Mexico paying for a border wall, cruel forms of torture being institutionalized, entry of all moslems into the US being banned, the national debt paid off in eight years, etc.

    Trump’s core voters saw in his shallowness and bigotry a validation of their own. He made them feel good about themselves, by being unashamedly boorish, hateful to minorities, abusive to women and aggressively ignorant.

    The glut of qualified candidates who split the educated/sane vote in the early primaries was certainly a tactical factor working in his favor.

    In the general election, of course, he was helped by his opponent being equally corrupt, unfit and toxic but (fatally for her) nowhere near as accomplished at lying.

    Dave (445e97)

  161. nowhere near as accomplished at lying.

    Dave (445e97) — 4/25/2018 @ 2:12 am

    Either you or your blood sugar is dangerously high.

    Pinandpuller (20c765)

  162. If you’re going to murder someone do it with a Tupperware top
    No one will ever be able to find it.

    Pinandpuller (20c765)

  163. I called in to Delilah to dedicate this joke to Dave:

    A girl asks her father, “Do all fairytales begin with Once Upon A Time?”
    And the father replied, “ No there is a whole series of fairytales that begin with ‘If Elected I Promise…..”

    Pinandpuller (20c765)

  164. Why? Because of a FALSE and unscientific theory that it is impossible to be wrong about one’s sexual identification. Even if you say your gender is “tree.”

    I don’t claim to be an expert Kevin, but how many adults do you know who have consciously changed their sexual orientation? I don’t mean discovering, over the natural course of their lives, that they are attracted to a different sex.

    I mean, how many people consciously decide “I’m going to start feeling attracted to (insert gender here) when I never was before” and succeed in doing so?

    Did you consciously weigh the pros and cons of attraction to men vs. women, and one day decide which it would be? I certainly didn’t. I didn’t have to.

    I think we both probably agree that it is impossible to truly change one’s gender as physically/genetically determined at birth. If sexual orientation is similarly physically/genetically determined at birth, as I think there is substantial evidence for, why should it be possible to change *that*?

    Dave (445e97)

  165. Either you or your blood sugar is dangerously high.

    Hillary Clinton is a completely unconvincing liar.

    Compare to her husband.

    Dave (445e97)

  166. Just remember Mark Levin went after Pat for telling the truth or just pointing out the truth about that tea party idiot who once was a witch in Delaware. Levin showed himself to be vicious, uncaring, and a liar,

    Fvck him

    EPWJ (524931)

  167. Hillary Clinton is a completely unconvincing liar.

    Compare to her husband.

    Dave (445e97) — 4/25/2018 @ 2:33 am

    To me if someone has been running in marathons for the last 25 years I would say they are an accomplished marathon runner. By no means do they have to finish in the top 10. Hillary might be like the gal who hopped on the train in the middle of the race. Sorry, it’s Rosie Ruiz and she took the subway in the Boston Marathon.

    Here’s a final joke you probably know to tie a bow on it:

    Mitch sees Nick, an old friend, and walks up to him: “Where have you been? Haven’t seen you for a while at the pub. Wanna join us on the card game tonight?”

    “I can’t. I have a lecture in an hour.”

    “A lecture? Aren’t you too old to study?”

    “You’re never too old to study the logic.”

    “Logic?”, Mitch shakes his head, “what is that supposed to be?”

    “Let me give you an example. Which of your belongings at home gives you the most joy?”

    “I got an aquarium. Neat little thing, with a chest where bubbles come out and…”

    “So you like fish.”, Nick comes a bit closer, “Now look how logic will lead us further: You like fish, so you like the sea. You like the sea, so you like the beach. You like the beach, so you like the young women there. Young women in Bikinis. Tanned.”

    “Yes!Yes! I like how logic brought us to the women!”

    “And if you like all that, it means you are a man! That is logic!”

    “I see! That is indeed amazing!”

    Nick looks at his watch. “I have to go now. Don’t want to be late.”

    “Yes, you should not be late. Go and learn more wise things to teach us, my friend!”

    Mitch is a bit proud about Nick and does not notice that Pete approaches him.

    “Hey Mitch. Was that Nick? What’s up with him these day? Will he join us later?”

    “No, he won’t. Nick is a man of science now. He studys the logic.”

    “Logic? What is that?”

    “Let me give you an example, since I do know a thing or two myself: Do you have an aquarium?”

    “No.”

    “Then you’re gay.”

    Pinandpuller (20c765)

  168. Just remember Mark Levin went after Pat for telling the truth or just pointing out the truth about that tea party idiot who once was a witch in Delaware. Levin showed himself to be vicious, uncaring, and a liar,

    Fvck him

    EPWJ (524931) — 4/25/2018 @ 3:27 am

    That’s weird, in just the last six months maybe I heard him give a h/t to Mr Patterico. Maybe he drinks diet Coke.

    Pinandpuller (20c765)

  169. Pp

    Doesn’t change what happened.

    EPWJ (524931)

  170. #113

    Holy Lord, that’s quite the statement. And all of these comparisons between Trump and Obama are completely beside the point. The real question remains: Trump or Hillary? And I think, at least in Dustin’s case, the answer is so obvious it wasn’t even worth asking the question. So, that’s one down. I continue the line of inquiry with others, though, because it’d be nice for some to cut it out with the beating around the bush and get down to brass tacks. At least then we might have an honest dialogue. Hmmmmm.

    #169

    I shall purloin this joke and pass it off as my own. Clever. Now the real problem: memorizing the damn thing. I’m gonna need more coffee. In any event, thanks for it.

    Estarcatus (d19e9c)

  171. What we need is a new Hays code for clickbait article headings. Like this one: https://www.seeker.com/space/if-the-rotten-egg-smell-doesnt-kill-you-the-negative-200degc-temperature-of-uranus-will

    nk (dbc370)

  172. 1) why do you think Trump won the nomination?
    2) why do you think he won the election?

    – Kevin M

    1) Because GOP primary voters equate being stupid and boorish to being “tough.”
    2) because an unjustifiably antiquated and openly anti-democratic mechanism handed it to him even though another candidate received more votes than he did.

    Leviticus (0b0b02)

  173. 2) cont’d. and because Hillary Clinton was a terrible, terrible candidate.

    Leviticus (0b0b02)

  174. Notice how any time the left doesn’t win it’s because their opponent “cheated”, “used racist whites to win”, or used that “antiquated Constitution” which was written so many years ago by a bunch of racist white guys who owned slaves.

    We don’t need that evil racist Constitution anymore. Just feelz. Lots of feelz. And ban conservative speech. It makes your feelz bad.

    NJRob (b00189)

  175. 157… if this is the same monster who also raped and murdered down in OC in the early 80s, I remember all of that. I watched a TV piece on this several years ago. If I recall correctly, there was a case where some fellow stood up to speak at one of the town halls they were holding in the Sac area where they were sharing what to do/not do to protect against this guy who would often enter homes thru unlocked sliding glass doors. This guy said he couldn’t understand how grown men would allow themselves to be tied up as the rapist/murderer attacked the woman of the house. This fellow and his wife were then targeted and hit, and the authorities figured the perp was probably in attendance at that town hall.

    Colonel Haiku (43fb26)

  176. What is antiquated is one person-one vote democracy. It worked for the 3,000 men of Athens, for a short while, but the lowest common denominator is not the best way to distribute the franchise in a nation of 330 million. That’s how Trump got the Republican nomination. Lowest common denominator democracy. If we keep this up, we will become a nation of marching morons.

    nk (dbc370)

  177. 176… yes, Rob, it appears the sensible, responsible thing to do is care about politics and do something to fight against this dismal tide.

    Colonel Haiku (43fb26)

  178. Estarcatus, thanks for the reference to Dustin’s #113. Without it I wouldn’t have noticed his assertion that yesterday my personal integrity failed to meet his expectations.

    Since I commented several times yesterday I’m at a loss to identify the instance where my lack of integrity was revealed, unless it was referenced in Dustin’s #108 (which was his response to my #105).

    I reject Dustin’s harsh, unwarranted, and deeply offensive observation. However, I’ll wait for him to ID the point at which he took umbrage before responding further.

    ropelight (99ab86)

  179. 174… this discounts the activities of the DNC and that some people recognize what constitutes “fighting back”, gloves off for a change.

    Colonel Haiku (43fb26)


  180. …..but the lowest common denominator is not the best way to distribute the franchise in a nation of 330 million.


    Then what is? I breathlessly await your suggestions.


    That’s how Trump got the Republican nomination.


    As opposed to how Hillary got the democrat nomination: superdelegates, cheating Sanders, payoffs and of course the usual democrat voter fraud.


    Lowest common denominator democracy. If we keep this up, we will become a nation of marching morons.


    We already are a nation of marching morons or did you miss the last dozen leftist “marches”?

    Rev.Hoagie (1b0402)

  181. Hopefully, Hoagie, the West will get tired of the fad, like it did in the last century before the Christian Era, and put it away again for another 1,700 years.

    nk (dbc370)

  182. Then what is? I breathlessly await your suggestions.

    Super delegates is not a bad idea. Picked by examination on their knowledge of the law.

    nk (dbc370)

  183. Question for Liviticus:

    Since Hillary was such a terrible terrible candidate, could any of the other GOP candidates have defeated her even if the GOP’s deplorable Primary voters were suddenly able to differentiate between stupid and boorish, and tough?

    ropelight (99ab86)

  184. “When a political figure is accused of wrongdoing, a conversation begins among journalists, commentators, and public officials. Are the charges true? Can the accusers prove it?

    That’s the way it normally works. But now, in the case of the Trump dossier – the allegations compiled by a former British spy hired by the Clinton campaign to gather dirt on presidential candidate Donald Trump – the generally accepted standard of justice has been turned on its head. Now, the question is: Can the accused prove the charges false? Increasingly, the president’s critics argue that the dossier is legitimate because it has not been proven untrue.

    It’s an argument heard at the highest levels of government, academics, and media.”

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/byron-york-is-cant-prove-untrue-new-standard-in-trump-probe

    Colonel Haiku (43fb26)

  185. Since Hillary was such a terrible terrible candidate, could any of the other GOP candidates have defeated her

    Yes, certainly.

    Dave (445e97)

  186. Notice how any time the left doesn’t win it’s because their opponent “cheated”, “used racist whites to win”, or used that “antiquated Constitution” which was written so many years ago by a bunch of racist white guys who owned slaves.

    “The left” didn’t lose in the 2016 Republican nominating race. “The left” won.

    Dave (445e97)

  187. On another note,

    A robed DC “god” decided that he has greater authority than the President when it comes to executive orders and declares Obama’s executive orders to be the new “10 Commandments” and cannot be overturned except by other robed “gods.”

    NJRob (b00189)

  188. If “the left” won the race Dave, you’d be happy. We know that isn’t the case so try again.

    Come on Dave. Con us some more.

    NJRob (b00189)

  189. ConDave. Transparency.

    Colonel Haiku (43fb26)

  190. Waiting for the ConDaveTrumpOCD™ to launch…

    Colonel Haiku (43fb26)

  191. Harfing is defined as saying or asserting something so patiently stupid and preposterous as to generate widespread mockery. Related to lying, dissembling, deceiving, and misleading.

    (Named in honor of State Department spokeswoman Marie Harf.)

    ropelight (99ab86)

  192. FEC records show that teh Hillary Clinton Presidential Campaign and the DNC conspired to launder $84,000,000 in campaign funds in order to purposely hide donations far in excess of the legal limits for individual donors.

    http://thefederalist.com/2018/04/24/bombshell-fec-records-indicate-hillary-campaign-illegally-laundered-84-million/

    Colonel Haiku (43fb26)

  193. 185
    Any other GOP candidate would have gotten my vote. As it turned out, they didn’t need my vote in Florida…

    Kishnevi (22ac03)

  194. I thought Harf was a hiccup that caused you to barf.

    It happens frequently at Oakland Raiders tailgates and is usually followed by a stabbing which in turn seems to clear up the hiccups

    steveg (a9dcab)

  195. He is an exceptional liar and con-man, and succeeded in tapping into white working-class peoples’ resentment that they are no longer assured the economic advantages over similarly-uneducated Latinos and blacks that they had traditionally enjoyed.

    Straight to the race-card as usual.

    In actuality, the reason was that the American power structure, of both parties, was no longe acting in the interests of American citizens.

    Whether it was:
    * Looking the other way while a generation of US high-school graduates had their job prospects diminished by a steady influx of undemanding illegal immigrants, or
    * It was the H1-B importation of tag-teams of young foreigners willing to endure short-term hardships, or
    * It was the submission of US companies to foreign demands that products in their markets be made locally, removing most manufacturing jobs from the US (and using a silly wage-level argument to justify it)

    in all cases the interests of Americans were put behind the interests of the elites, foreign nations and, apparently, foreign nationals.

    And this had been going on for years. The largest two employers of male US high-school graduates in the Boomer generation were manufacturing and construction. One of those industries is now in China, and the other is almost purely Spanish-speaking. Only union construction (limited to government projects) remains a place of American employment.

    And no one, not Cruz, not Romney, not Hillary, not Bernie, and no Bush was willing to address this. So,e of them were trying to make it worse.

    So, enter Trump, le enfant terriblé, willing to speak for them.

    OF COURSE THEY FLOCKED TO HIM. The pity is that the more sensible candidates were taken unaware. They should have seen it coming. They didn’t.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  196. I don’t claim to be an expert Kevin, but how many adults do you know who have consciously changed their sexual orientation? I don’t mean discovering, over the natural course of their lives, that they are attracted to a different sex.

    I have personally counseled three, in AA. None of them were confirmed in any preference, they were just confused and grasping for straws at the cause of their unhappiness. One of them actually turned out to BE gay — I have no agenda there.

    But the law does not allow for this kind of thing — it assumes that whatever is claimed is true, and that even if they are not in their right mind, some avenues of therapy are forbidden.

    Never mind the 1st Amendment and privacy rights, and whatever right there is to effective help in crisis.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  197. P&P–

    I like musicals and hate aquariums.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  198. And yet…

    Kevin M (752a26)

  199. Leviticus,

    I hope that you live long enough to see the destruction that would follow the repeal of the Electoral College. And I hope that I don’t. The Constitution would not have survived 20 years without it.

    Do you trust vote counting in Texas or California? Are you sure they would never tack another million votes on to turn an election? Chicago added a million votes in 1960. Turned out not to matter, other than giving JFK a slight popular vote margin. In a pure popular vote election, it would have flipped the winner.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  200. What is antiquated is one person-one vote democracy.

    I wonder what would happen if you got a second vote for a high-school diploma, a third vote for a college diploma, or for paying over $1000 in income taxes. Maybe you could even BUY extra votes.

    Along these lines, would the Senate be better or worse if all 100 seats were sold by Dutch auction?

    Kevin M (752a26)

  201. Whether it was:
    * Looking the other way while a generation of US high-school graduates had their job prospects diminished by a steady influx of undemanding illegal immigrants, or
    * It was the H1-B importation of tag-teams of young foreigners willing to endure short-term hardships, or
    * It was the submission of US companies to foreign demands that products in their markets be made locally, removing most manufacturing jobs from the US (and using a silly wage-level argument to justify it)

    in all cases the interests of Americans were put behind the interests of the elites, foreign nations and, apparently, foreign nationals.

    And this had been going on for years.

    Yep, about 230 years, to be exact.

    What you’re describing is exactly the free enterprise, capitalist system that made us the richest, most powerful and most free nation in the history of the world.

    Are you suggesting that the government owes people without the skills to compete in the modern global economy a free ticket to a comfortable middle-class life-style?

    OF COURSE THEY FLOCKED TO HIM.

    And he has about as much chance of changing the laws of economics as Obama did of reversing the rise of the oceans (even though Obama never actually promised to do that…). The right thing to do is adapt, compete, and prosper, as we’ve done for our entire history.

    Reminds me of the scene from Henry IV, Part 1:

    Glendower:
    I can call spirits from the vasty deep.

    Hotspur:
    Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them?

    Glendower:
    Why, I can teach you, cousin, to command
    The devil

    Hotspur:
    And I can teach thee, coz, to shame the devil—
    By telling the truth. Tell truth and shame the devil.

    Unfortunately, telling the truth was not a winning strategy with a liar as shameless as Donald Trump in the race.

    Dave (445e97)

  202. OCD… it will eat you alive, ConDave…

    Colonel Haiku (43fb26)

  203. P&P–

    I like musicals and hate aquariums.

    Kevin M (752a26) — 4/25/2018 @ 11:11 am

    One question… are you a big Liza Minnelli fan?

    Colonel Haiku (43fb26)

  204. “Do you trust vote counting in Texas or California?”

    – Kevin

    This has no bearing on the Electoral College argument, pro or con. If you can’t trust the vote tallies, then how can you trust the reliance placed on them by Electors? Who won Michigan in 2016? The popular vote tally showed Trump +10,704. Who won New Hampshire? The popular vote tally showed Clinton +2,736.

    The solution is to develop better security for the ballot, not to cling fearfully to an institution that places a candidate with fewer votes than another candidate into the White House.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  205. i vote we continue to cling fearfully

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  206. Your vote doesn’t count. Sorry.

    Leviticus (cb3e5f)

  207. hah my vote has dragon energy

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  208. Leviticus, why not do away with the current system of representation altogether? All the voters of a State can vote whether or not their entire State is Party A or Party B, and send one person to the Federal level to vote on behalf of the people with the most votes.

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  209. Liviticus, see #185.

    ropelight (46c65c)

  210. nk – on what *moral* basis can you say that one man should have more of a say in the rules that govern the lives of *everyone* than any other man should?

    if i am going to be bound by the laws established by a government, it is massively unfair to me if I do not have an equal say in their creation. if I do *not*, then I am not a free man; I am a subject, not a citizen.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  211. BuDuh – that barely changes our system of representation at all. Just substitute “district” for “state.”

    Leviticus (cb3e5f)

  212. All states would have 1 representative to vouch for them in congress regardsless of population. You think that is barely a change?

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  213. Yeesh – sorry, I misunderstood you. Yes, that would be a big change.

    My point is that the nature of representation – via arbitrary geographic units – would be the same.

    Leviticus (cb3e5f)

  214. We went over this and I thought we agreed. The lines aren’t arbitrary geographical units, they are weighted as equally as possible by population.

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  215. A) Just because the lines are drawn with some set of principles in mind doesn’t mean they aren’t ultimately arbitrary.

    B) I agreed with you that the lines were “weighted” by population – certainly not that they are “weighted as equally as possible by population.” There is a big difference.

    C) If you acknowledge the political or moral validity of the equal population principle (or the “one man, one vote” principle) then you have already undermined the argument for any sort of districting in a big way. Districting is *the* major impediment to the implementation of the “one man, one vote” principle.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  216. Kevin M,

    Based on your “+/- 1,000,000 votes” skepticism threshold, the only set of electors who were able to cast their votes on solid footing were the electors from New York and California. All other sets of electors may or may not have been duped by vote manufacturing in their respective states.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  217. Kevin

    I experimented with aquariums in HS. I think music is a spectrum. I like all kinds.

    Pinandpuller (aa51da)

  218. aphrael, there is neither a moral nor a rational basis for the proposition that all persons are equal. It is merely a legal fiction. Nor a historical basis, either. Democratic Athens had six slaves for each citizen, including its police force who were property of the city.

    nk (9651fb)

  219. climate change is a hoax

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  220. “I’m all for the democratic principle that says one idiot is as good as one genius. But I draw the line when someone takes the next step and concludes that two idiots are better than one genius.” – Leo Szilard, channeling nk

    Couldn’t resist…

    Dave (d53580)

  221. B) I agreed with you that the lines were “weighted” by population – certainly not that they are “weighted as equally as possible by population.” There is a big difference.

    Ok. Lets clear this up. What is the criteria for a US Congressional district?

    BuDuh (fc15db)


  222. 220.aphrael, there is neither a moral nor a rational basis for the proposition that all persons are equal. It is merely a legal fiction.

    That’s because all persons definitely are not equal. It’s an observable fact. They may be equal in the eyes of God, but I doubt it. They should be treated equal in law but as we see they are not. And in no other way can any two or more people be equal. The very idea that my vote can be cancelled out by an illiterate indigent makes a mockery of self government. People without skin in the game should have no vote. Anyone who pays no taxes for example.

    Rev.Hoagie (1b0402)

  223. The Earth’s climate does change, but the prime mover of climate change isn’t automobiles or power plants, nor is it aerosol sprays or backyard barbeques, it’s not even cow farts or plastic grocery bags, it’s variations in the intensity of the Sun’s rays reaching our planet.

    As the Sun’s output waxes and wanes tempatures on Earth rise and fall, it has ever been so, and it will continue to be so so long as world population doesn’t reach the point where the adverse effect of human numbers overcomes solar influence.

    Thus, true environmentalism is a population equation. To save the Earth we must reduce the growing number of humans on our planet, or face the inevitable fate island populations throughout history have encountered: what to do when there just isn’t enough living space or resources to sustain current population levels, much less accommodate new arrivals.

    ropelight (46c65c)

  224. “What is the criteria for a US Congressional district?”

    – BuDuh

    What do you mean? Do you mean the average ideal population? 711,000, with a variance range of about 450,000 voters.

    Are you asking about the “traditional redistricting principles”? Compactness, contiguity, preserving communities of interest, preserving local subdivisions, avoidance of racial gerrymandering, etc.

    Are you asking about something else?

    Leviticus (efada1)

  225. I am talking about what a district has to be based on above everything else.

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  226. The very idea that my vote can be cancelled out by an illiterate indigent makes a mockery of self government. People without skin in the game should have no vote. Anyone who pays no taxes for example.

    Rev.Hoagie (1b0402) — 4/25/2018 @ 2:29 pm

    The State lets people relinquish their parental rights all the time.

    Pinandpuller (aa065b)

  227. “I am talking about what a district has to be based on above everything else.”

    – BuDuh

    Politics.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  228. “Mathematical nicety is not a constitutional requisite.”

    Leviticus (efada1)

  229. I guess we are nearly done. I believe the district, before anything else, has to satisfy a population requirement. If you think that is bunk and you want to do away with that representative system, I can certainly understand why you don’t like the Electoral College system.

    I would recommend that you first petition to do away with The Senate. There cannot be anything more to the contrary of your one person one vote desire than that outdated system.

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  230. Chance the Rapper backs Kanye West: ‘Black people don’t have to be Democrats’ http://bit.ly/2JubhDJ

    happyfeet (28a91b)


  231. ‘Black people don’t have to be Democrats’

    As my son would tell ya, any black person who is a member of the party that fought a civil war to own black slaves, instituted Jim Crow and forced segregation, founded the KKK, backed lynching, and used the Great Society to create black inner city ghettoes deserves to have the black slapped out of him. Then returned to Africa where he’ll be more at home.

    Rev.Hoagie (1b0402)


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