Patterico's Pontifications

11/16/2017

When Party Loyalty Begets A Collective Moral Bankruptcy

Filed under: General — Dana @ 10:12 am

[guest post by Dana]

The worst example of party loyalty is when a sexual predator’s bad behavior is brushed away, rationalized, overlooked, or worse: acknowledged as being rooted in truth, or altogether true but dismissed anyway because supporting the party trumps everything else – especially when an election is involved. And even if the opponent is as morally pure as driven snow, better to have an accused sexual predator in office than one from across the aisle.

This week we’ve been treated to journalists now asserting that they believe Juanita Broaddrick and condemn Bill Clinton’s sexual misconduct, even if leaving the door of excuses cracked open. Of course the timing of these tabloid confessionals is painfully and childishly obvious, given that Hillary no longer stands on the brink of becoming the first woman president thus the Democratic party no longer needs the Big Dog to help usher her into the Oval Office. For well-connected professional journalists with access to all manner of information and historical records, and whose very profession consists of research and examination, to claim they simply were unable to see the forest through the trees (until politically convenient), rings hollow. And if Hillary supporting celebrities who are leaving their profession to become full-time political activists, offer up the feeble excuse that they didn’t even know about Juanita Broaddrick’s story when confronted by Broaddrick herself (until politically convenient), rings even more hollow. I can’t help but feel like we are supposed to be applauding the left’s collective epiphanies about the real Bill Clinton. Sorry. Too little, too late. They knew. Because if a nobody like me knew, how much more the professional working journalists, and the celebrities who actually rubbed shoulders with the Clintons? These people are childish in their efforts to appear as if they heroically confronted and took down a beast of burden weighing heavily on their collective woke conscience. I’m not playing this game. Whatever propels the Democratic party forward is always the priority of the left. And it doesn’t matter if that entails staunch denials and dismissals of Bill Clinton’s “peccadilloes” (because that’s what accusations of rape are referred to by the left) when necessary. That has always been the modern moral tell of the Democrats. I think this week should be referred to as the week of convenient reckoning.

But convenience is not limited to the left side of the aisle. The disgust I have at the Democrats’ decades-long denials and efforts to dismiss and rationalize Bill Clinton’s awfulness until politically convenient to admit them, is the same disgust I feel about the right side of the aisle currently circling the wagons around Roy Moore. To my mind, there is little difference. Both men have been accused of heinous behavior toward women. And far worse, claims of sexual assault on this side of the aisle involved a minor. Victims have shared their stories. Family members and friends have backed them up in their allegations. And yet, because Moore is a Republican, a party which once claimed the moral high ground, it is now seemingly willing to overlook the accusations, make excuses for Moore and dismiss any allegations because of the R after his name and because there is an upcoming election. It’s taken a long time, but Republicans are now this close to becoming as morally bankrupt as the Democrats.

In the spirit of equal-opportunity criticism (and disavowal) of public figures accused of sexual misconduct in well-sourced reports, Los Angeles news anchor Leeann Tweeden has gone public with her claims of sexual misconduct by Al Franken, so have at it:

In December of 2006, I embarked on my ninth USO Tour to entertain our troops, my eighth to the Middle East since the 9/11 attacks. My father served in Vietnam and my then-boyfriend (and now husband, Chris) is a pilot in the Air Force, so bringing a ‘little piece of home’ to servicemembers stationed far away from their families was both my passion and my privilege.

The headliner was comedian and now-senator, Al Franken.

Franken had written some skits for the show and brought props and costumes to go along with them. Like many USO shows before and since, the skits were full of sexual innuendo geared toward a young, male audience.

As a TV host and sports broadcaster, as well as a model familiar to the audience from the covers of FHM, Maxim and Playboy, I was only expecting to emcee and introduce the acts, but Franken said he had written a part for me that he thought would be funny, and I agreed to play along.

When I saw the script, Franken had written a moment when his character comes at me for a ‘kiss’. I suspected what he was after, but I figured I could turn my head at the last minute, or put my hand over his mouth, to get more laughs from the crowd.

On the day of the show Franken and I were alone backstage going over our lines one last time. He said to me, “We need to rehearse the kiss.” I laughed and ignored him. Then he said it again. I said something like, ‘Relax Al, this isn’t SNL…we don’t need to rehearse the kiss.’

He continued to insist, and I was beginning to get uncomfortable.

He repeated that actors really need to rehearse everything and that we must practice the kiss. I said ‘OK’ so he would stop badgering me. We did the line leading up to the kiss and then he came at me, put his hand on the back of my head, mashed his lips against mine and aggressively stuck his tongue in my mouth.

I immediately pushed him away with both of my hands against his chest and told him if he ever did that to me again I wouldn’t be so nice about it the next time.

I felt disgusted and violated.

Unfortunately, for Leeann Tweeden, Franken didn’t really give a hoot about how disgusted and violated she might have felt after he forced tongue in her mouth:

Untitled

I couldn’t believe it. He groped me, without my consent, while I was asleep.

I felt violated all over again. Embarrassed. Belittled. Humiliated.

How dare anyone grab my breasts like this and think it’s funny?

I told my husband everything that happened and showed him the picture.

I wanted to shout my story to the world with a megaphone to anyone who would listen, but even as angry as I was, I was worried about the potential backlash and damage going public might have on my career as a broadcaster.

But that was then, this is now. I’m no longer afraid.

Every time I hear his voice or see his face, I am angry. I am angry that I did his stupid skit for the rest of that tour. I am angry that I didn’t call him out in front of everyone when I had the microphone in my hand every night after that. I wanted to. But I didn’t want to rock the boat. I was there to entertain the troops and make sure they forgot about where they were for a few hours. Someday, I thought to myself, I would tell my story.

That day is now.

Senator Franken, you wrote the script. But there’s nothing funny about sexual assault.

You wrote the scene that would include you kissing me and then relentlessly badgered me into ‘rehearsing’ the kiss with you backstage when we were alone.

You knew exactly what you were doing. You forcibly kissed me without my consent, grabbed my breasts while I was sleeping and had someone take a photo of you doing it, knowing I would see it later, and be ashamed.

And why is Tweeden going public now with her story? To encourage others to come forward, and because she wants the days of silence to be over forever.

(Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.)

–Dana

527 Responses to “When Party Loyalty Begets A Collective Moral Bankruptcy”

  1. 2017 will not be “Al Franken’s Year”.

    Colonel Haiku (993483)

  2. Good morning.

    Dana (023079)

  3. And unlike any of Moore’s accusations, we actually have contemporaneous evidence for this one that is not solely the word of an accuser.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  4. … or his decade… https://youtu.be/wyoaOZW7rTo

    Colonel Haiku (993483)

  5. In that picture there are clearly other people in the room who could be asked, is this what it looks like? There’s lots of independent details that can be followed up, either to excuse Franken, or the opposite. Franken is not disputing of course that it happened, and it sure looks like he thinks, at least, it’s a big joke.

    We don’t have that for Nelson’s accusation against Moore. She won’t even say what week it was. She doesn’t say who else was at work that day, who was there closing and locking up so she had to “wait in the cold” and can say what they remember about it. There is not enough detail in the accusation for Moore to respond to, if it isn’t true, he’d have to have records or witnesses for every night in a long and unspecified period of time to be cleared of it.

    If it’s unreasonable to expect the accuser to provide, after 40 years, which night it was, who she worked with, who closed up, what Moore’s car looked like beyond “old” with “two doors”, then in fairness it is not reasonable to expect Moore to have to refute the charge.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  6. @Col Haiku:hits keep comin’

    Why are the names in the Harvard Crimson spelled wrong? Jane “Curtain” and “Lorned” Michaels?

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  7. There’s a little more to it than that, I think. There is no doubt in anybody’s mind that Franken is the kind of person who would do that kind of thing. A question of character. Of which he has none, and only a people whose state bird is the loon would elect him to the Senate or any other position of trust.

    Moore, on the other hand, despite being a lawyer, has enjoyed the reputation that he is not the kind of person who would do the things he is accused of. If anything, he has been faulted for being over-moral. He was appointed and then elected Circuit Judge; and he was elected Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court twice. Judges and Chief Justices are held to a very high standard by the people who vote for them. It is easy to believe, and I do, that these accusations are a sucker punch that he had no reason to expect.

    nk (dbc370)

  8. if politics were about morality why would we have so much filthy lying trash in congress like the odious Jeff Flake and sleazy cowardpig John McCain

    and nasty-assed Lisa Murkowski and a sputum-licking lobsterpot bimbo like the Susan Collins

    and a slag like Shelley Capito who literally turned *herself* out and at an age where there’s just no dignity in that

    and what about grand wizard Mitt Romney, smear-meister extraordinaire

    moral bankruptcy lol

    you’re soaking in it!

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  9. @nk: If anything, he has been faulted for being over-moral.

    That plays in to the “Elmer Gantry” narrative, the moralist who is really a lech and pervert, and whatever people in Alabama thought of Roy Moore plenty of people are predisposed buy in to that narrative.

    In the early 2000’s I used to waste time on the Internet discussing (and ridiculing) his young-earth creationism and his 10 commandments monument. My opinion of Moore on those matters has not changed.

    Even so, I don’t wish on him what he’s going through, with a national media uncritically retailing serious accusations of actual crimes mixed up with less serious accusations of being a sleaze mixed up with out-and-out rumors; and for the crimes it’s the word of one person.

    Everything that Columbia Journalism Review said should not be done in reporting on rapes, is being done here. If Moore is actually guilty of those sexual assaults, then what is happening is less than what he deserves, but our new standard of evidence is to treat him as though he is regardless of how much thinner this evidence is than that for Franken.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  10. There is no escaping it, there is turmoil and plenty of guilt to go around on the left, the right and the center. In a way it is a good thing this is all coming out – of course no one deserves abuse.
    At the same time, this is opening Pandora’s box, unleashing pandemonium. All on Captain Chaos’ clock. As DCSCA says, “and Putin smiled.”

    Tillman (a95660)

  11. 9… probably because it was written in 1976, before anyone would really know or care about the spelling of these names?

    Colonel Haiku (993483)

  12. And why is Tweeden going public now with her story? To encourage others to come forward, and because she wants the days of silence to be over forever.

    as if

    being molested assaulted groped or hit on is the new hotness this season

    it’s like a virtual fashion accessory what you can adorn your social media with

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  13. and a slag like Shelley Capito who literally turned *herself* out and at an age where there’s just no dignity in that

    explain, Pika, explain…

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  14. I’ll take this whole reevaluation of Bill Clinton by progressives seriously when we start to see institutions named in his honor rename themselves.

    JVW (42615e)

  15. Do you believe Juanita Broadrrick and Kathleen Willey’s claims against Bill Clinton?

    Dana (023079)

  16. explain, Pika, explain…

    In 2015, a repeal bill — one that repealed as much of ObamaCare as possible without 60 votes — was passed by a majority of the Senate. Among the people who voted for that bill were Dean Heller, John McCain, Shelley Moore Capito, Lisa Murkowski, Lamar Alexander, and Rob Portman.

    But of course such a bill was designed to be vetoed — and it was, by President Obama.

    When it was re-submitted this year, Heller and the other five voted no. Because they knew that it would be signed this time.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  17. Do you believe Juanita Broadrrick and Kathleen Willey’s claims against Bill Clinton?

    i do i do but in both cases i think they waited too long for their claims to have any value

    they decided to be silent victims you see

    and when you do that you’ll find people are super happy to honor your choice

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  18. As for Bill Clinton, Dana and others here talk as if he was given a pass and that’s the end of the story. But one of the main reasons he was left in office is that when stories started breaking about other Republican Congressmen’s own, similar “indiscretions,” the brakes were put on fairly quickly. No one wanted to keep the heat on Bill with skeletons in their own closets.
    (My grandfather was in a State Senate, in a southern state, and claimed that all the guys there in politics were cheating, so hearing about widespread adultery and other shenanigans didn’t surprise me any. My grandfather did not approve of that by the way, and didn’t participate.)

    Tillman (a95660)

  19. But one of the main reasons [Clinton] was left in office is that when stories started breaking about other Republican Congressmen’s own, similar “indiscretions,” the brakes were put on fairly quickly.

    TRUE

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  20. My bad, I should have suspected this was the reason, but when one uses the term “turns themself out” with regard to a female, I was thinking she went out a’ cougaring or started dressing provactively. After a cursory Google search of imagery, I conclude that Sen. Moore Capito is a classic Cincinnati Bengal (burnt face, OK bod for age because of the running and all). Damn I just killed my chance at political office under these new mores.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  21. Time for Al’s ride in The Wicker Man.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  22. there’s so many banned words here anymore Mr. leftbehind it’s getting harder to do the communicate

    but I are persisted!

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  23. There’s a difference between “party loyalty” and defensive politics. Often it means that you DO have to choose between “bad” and “terrible”. That does not mean that you are loyal to “bad.”

    And yes, I opted out of the 2016 presidential contest, although I voted down-ballot. But I live in California and it was just posturing, really. If I had lived in, say, Michigan? Hard to say if I would have voted for Trump or not. I certainly would not have voted for Hillary.

    But this is unrelated to party loyalty. It is conceivable I might have voted for Biden over Trump.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  24. Tillie forgets the standing ovation Clinton received from Democrats in the Senate when he was allowed to stay in office…

    Colonel Haiku (993483)

  25. If you caught the presser which just ended w/ Ms. Tweeden, she accepted Franken’s apology. But as a media personality, her presentation was by far the most incoherent of all the women who’ve come forward at these televised confessionals in these past weeks and months. As a media person she should know, if you’re going to do a presser on camera: prepare. But her scatter shot ramblings aside, the photo alone is damning. And Franken as well as Senate colleagues have rightly asked for a Senate ethics investigation. Met Franken a few times at events in NY and LA. He is short and very self-aware but was never very funny to mep perhaps a better writer than performer. Others may agreed, hence his move to a line of work where he could improve on those stand-up skills: the U.S. Senate.

    Meanwhile, in another state, Roy ‘Mall Mauler’ Moore is holding a press conference surrounded with a bunch of Bible thumpers in the wake of four more women coming forward. Seems he wants access to a yearbook.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  26. So Al was a wrestler. He’s got a strong ground game. But when he tries to stand up face to face he has to use a lot of head fakes to get past the guard. I think he has to retire before an Air Force pilot ejects him without a canopy.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  27. Clinton got a lot of standing Oh’s Mr Colonel Haiku.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  28. But one of the main reasons [Clinton] was left in office is that when stories started breaking about other Republican Congressmen’s own, similar “indiscretions,” the brakes were put on fairly quickly.

    Um, which of those Republicans lied under oath?

    Kevin M (752a26)

  29. Are you saying you want to help her rehearse Mr DCSCA?

    I have to tell you I think that’s a really bad idea.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  30. shouldn’t mitch the biotch have already demanded stuart resign? Thats what he has told moore, without photos!!!

    mg (60b0f7)

  31. Do you expect me to drop out?

    No, Mr Moore, we expect you to die!

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  32. My Dad had a good rule. Never put your p****s with your paycheck. But it’s only fair to point out that there are plenty of real bimbos who are willing and eager to play house with anybody who can dispense favors. When you encounter one see Dad’s rule.

    Thud Muffle (17ac6b)

  33. Journalism school in 12 oz. cans and bottles: when you say Bud you’ve said it all — gets you a job as a “sport journalist.”

    Budweiser’s Famous Towel Poster Signed – Leeann Tweeden’s Store
    http://store.leeanntweeden.com › Autographs

    This poster comes from Budweiser’s 2007 campaign for the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue with Leeann Tweeden.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  34. someone should check to see if stuart was hands on in barney franks homosexual prostitution ring being operated out of barneys house.

    mg (60b0f7)

  35. @32. Mr. P&P, see #36. You fill the ice chest, I’ll bring the pretzels.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  36. Any time Democrats round up a couple people to accuse a Republican of something the right should immediately cede that seat to the Democrats? Where does that end?

    Reid accusing Romney of not paying taxes. Duke Rape case, Tawana Brawley, racist and sexist labels thrown on everyone. It’s the Democrats MO for decades to project false claims on Republicans. If Republicans just accept the label and don’t fight back; on top of all being racist and sexist they will all also be rapist.

    Nate Ogden (9fca1e)

  37. 31. As if many in the current admin. aren’t lying under oath Kevin. You’re funny.
    I care more about whether they are collaborating with our enemy than who they’ve slept with.

    Tillman (a95660)

  38. Mr DCSCA

    Technically this happened in a Muslim country so no beer and we’re going to need Moore witnesses. Moore and Moore and Moore.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  39. Weak,Tillie, even for you…

    Colonel Haiku (993483)

  40. how would Mr. Franken liked it if somebody grabbed *his* breasts like that

    i bet he’d be all bad touch bad touch

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  41. Mr DCSCA

    Instead of paracord bracelets Ms Tweeden needs those handcuff keys you can hide on your shoelaces.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  42. Any thoughts that the democrats will force Franken to resign or that the Senate will expel him after a lengthy ethics investigation, well… I wouldn’t count on it. Note in today’s episode of ‘this man’s a pig’ the democrat will receive due process and stays in place pending an internal investigation while the pressure is raised on forcing the republican out enabling the democrat to win an election.

    I am all for getting the pigs out of power but not by lynching them in the public square. It might be good for ratings but it’s just as bad today as it was in Salem or the wild west. Let (s)he who is without interpersonal contact with another cast the first stone.

    crazy (d99a88)

  43. They saw his O-face, PandP… “oh!”… “oh!”… “oh!”…

    Colonel Haiku (993483)

  44. The nked truth: Tweeden’s own double-D-standards are on display for all to see.

    Former Fox Sports host Leeann Tweeden bares it all for Playboy …
    https://www.talesmen.com › Entertainment

    leeann tweeden hot body girl on playboy magazine cover – YouTube
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6vIB0vD8kQ

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  45. I betcha ASPCA absolutely ruined those foldouts back in teh day!

    Colonel Haiku (993483)

  46. You know Dennis Miller married the gal from that KajaGooGoo video.

    Too shy shy

    hush hush!

    What was going on there? Besides a horrible bleach job.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  47. Colonel Haiku

    The Q face is like the O face plus tongue.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  48. @44. Mr P&P- ‘read’ between the articles in Playboy, December, 2011.

    “Ohhhh, sweet mystery of life at last I’ve found you.” – Inga [Teri Garr] ‘Young Frankenstein’ 1974

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  49. @48. =Haiku= Gesundheit!

    Bang! Zooooooom! To the Moon, Haiku!

    http://www.businessinsider.com/nasa-moon-porn-apollo-12-2016-10

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  50. “I felt violated all over again. Embarrassed. Belittled. Humiliated.”

    Gee, Ms. Tweeden, was this after you posed for FHM, Maxim and Playboy or after you deposited their checks for services rendered.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  51. She peddles her body and then complains when men “objectify” her. Ok, then, ma’am.

    nk (dbc370)

  52. What goes around comes around. which sanctimonious hypocrite is next?

    who's next (1be380)

  53. @55. Bingo. During the time frame in question, that was her stock photo and trade.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  54. Juice box Ezra implies they’ll gladly throw Stuart Smalley under the bus if consevatives turn on Trump…..no kidding!

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/2017/11/16/al_franken_should_be_investigated_and_so_should_donald_trump_426743.htmL

    harkin (a9a478)

  55. Amy (Klobuchar) – Pure Prairie Muffin

    We can see why you think you are up a tree
    They never tried to make you think, or let you say one thing for yourself
    But now it’s Franken’s goose what’s cooked and you’re alone
    You see he tried to throw that fox his crooked bone

    Amy what you gonna do?
    Try doin’ one thing that is true
    Serve this term, maybe longer, if you do

    Don’t you think the time is right for you to say
    All the things he did weren’t proper’n this day and age
    And can’t you see

    If what you choose takes hold it won’t be long
    The Left can never see what’s right or what is wrong
    (cause it’ll take too long to see)

    Amy what you gonna do?
    Try doin’ one thing that is true
    Serve this term, maybe longer, if you do

    Colonel Haiku (993483)

  56. OK, let’s come right out and say it; ‘moral bankruptcy’ is an accusation that one flings at a politician or other public figure, when we know goddamned well that politicians and Hollywood types who aren’t morally bankrupt are as common as kindly pushers. There are probably a few, but it ain’t the way to bet. Politics has always been a facade of moral superiority over rot and corruption, right back to when Ugg ran Grunt out of the ape-pack.

    Is Moore a scumbag? Probably. But the charges are (allegedly) about something that happened decades ago, and even the accuser is vague about details. Maybe Moore’s election will be derailed by this, but I wouldn’t be either surprised or much upset if it wasn’t.

    Charges against Clinton were a tad more current. Charges against Franken have circumstantial evidence backing them. A lot of the accusations against Weinstein fall between the insubstantiality of the charges against Moore and those that were made against Clinton more or less when they happened.

    But, really, people. Shock and outrage that the Hollywood casting couch is alive and fluid stained? Did anyone really think it had ever gone away?

    C. S. P. Schofield (99bd37)

  57. NYT reporter calls for Twitter to censor images of Biden inappropriately touching women, children

    https://bigleaguepolitics.com/nyt-reporter-calls-twitter-censor-images-biden-inappropriately-touching-women-children/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    harkin (a9a478)

  58. I think everybody’s dad said you can look but you can’t touch.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  59. Wait, wait. There’s two things here. The “rehearsed” kiss, and the picture he had someone take (who? This is a witness. And how did she get it? Was it printed out and just left around? ZDid she then steal it?) of him grabbing her while she was sleeping.

    And then maybe also there’s he skit itself, which she continued doing.

    She didn’t want to break up the USO tour. OK. And the picture proves nothing by itself, since it could be a joke she agreed to, so she never used it. Even now, it just proves something went on.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e756e)

  60. This is not a new accusation against Biden, although before it was always that he seemed to be doing things.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e756e)

  61. @63. Sammy, she was the USO Tour eye candy; the Dorothy Lamour for Hope and Crosby– ‘cept she couldn’t act or sing.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  62. I think all the Playboy models could give Sen Frankenstein the X Men treatment and turn him into Frank N Furter but that would just be punishing us. Like Good Behaivior.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  63. 31. The Republicans just told the truth and/or resigned from Congress. It didn’t help Bill Clinton.

    The Republicans were afraid to touch the rape charge of Juanita Broderick or the assault charhe of Kathleen Willey.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e756e)

  64. @ realDCSCA

    She knew what she was signing up for!

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  65. She dreamed she saw Slow Joe last night
    a’groping at her knee

    Colonel Haiku (993483)

  66. Said she, “but Joe, I’s just a child”
    “Yer old enuf to bleed”
    Joe says “yer old enuf to bleed”

    Colonel Haiku (993483)

  67. saul alinsky rule 4 make the enemy live by his own rules. you magnificent bastard I read your book!

    who's next (1be380)

  68. Witnesses now report they saw Moore outside Old Hickory House screaming , “Stella!” He claims he was helping Ms fake Shirley McClain rehearse for Cat on a Hot Tin Roof.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  69. I’m probably mixing my Tennessee Williams’ plays up but if you rely on the kindness of Gloria Allred you’re gonna have a bad time.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  70. Hey Joe

    Where you going

    With that thing in your hand?

    Hey Joe

    Where you going

    With that grin on your face?

    Probably gonna feel up my old lady

    How’d I do you wrong like that?

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  71. So when a man sticks his tongue in a woman’s mouth – uninvited – whether or not it’s sexual assault is determined by what the woman’s past profession was??? Seriously???

    This is just another variation of “she wore a short skirt asked for it.”

    Dana (023079)

  72. From the Sammy Zone: (many typos corrected and split a bit more into paragraphs)

    Date: 10-30-00 (11:57) Number: 3892 of 4082 (Refer# NONE)
    To: ALL
    From: SAMMY FINKELMAN
    Subj: Beth Gilinksy WEVD radio show
    Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
    Conf: Sammy Zone (13) Read Type: GENERAL (+)

    SF> I want to listen to Beth Gilinsky on the radio (WEVD) 1050 AM
    SF> starting at 9 P.M. Saturday night and going till midnight. She’s
    SF> going to do a whole expose on Hillary Clinton secret fundraising
    SF> from friends of Yasir Arafat

    I listened to that, or part of it anyway last Saturday night. The radiuo
    show is not too good as a radio show. Beth is not too bad but her
    co-host has an awful manner.

    I learned a few things I didn’t know before.

    …….

    Beth also mentioned the Juanita Broderick case. She said that when the
    NBC camera crew was taping Juanita Broderick she wanted to tell them
    about what Hillary had said to her a week after the event but they told
    her “we don’t want to go there” so they didn’t get that on tape.

    According to Juanita Broderick about a week or two or whenever this was
    after her rape, she attended a fundraiser for Bill Clinton. (what she
    is not saying or making explicit is that she was in the nursing home
    business – of course now of course the DNC is trying to make George
    Bush look soft on nursing homes but actually the Clintons had long
    connections with nursing homes in Arkansas particularly Beverly
    Enterprises. Well, Juanita Broderick also had a nursing home and that’s
    what gave her her connection to Bill Clinton)

    So anyway she was there and Hillary approached her and said something
    like “Me and Bill want you to know that we want to thank you for all
    you have done for us”

    Juanita Broderick was taken aback and said nothing and then Hillary
    repeated the same words again although this time her face was more
    cold. Juanita Broderick felt very bad and she also thought she was
    being thanked for keeping this secret. She mentioned this to indicate
    that Hillary knew (although I suppose someone could say that maybe
    Hillary repeated these words without knowing why)

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  73. For those wondering, the photog was Franken’s brother.

    crazy (d99a88)

  74. Shouldn’t outcries and disavowal of sexual harassment and assault be applied consistently, without regard to party affiliation? Shouldn’t that be especially so on the right side of the aisle that, at one time at least, held the moral high ground?

    Dana (023079)

  75. 75. Correct, Dana!
    And if a man shows of his wealth, a woman is perfectly justified in stealing his money, too. He shouldn’t be showing it off! He was askin’ for it!

    Tillman (a95660)

  76. *off his wealth

    Tillman (a95660)

  77. Yes, due process and equal justice for all not mob justice.

    crazy (d99a88)

  78. surrounded with a bunch of Bible thumpers in the wake of four more women coming forward

    This is far more important to you than the fact that the rape allegation is a forgery and revenge on him for ruling against her in a divorce case in 1999.

    Mike K (b3dd19)

  79. Moore-Franken Wrestlemania 2017.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  80. Once it was established that one could murder a young woman while driving drunk and obviously fooling around on one’s wife and thereafter be forever known as “The Lion of the Senate” the left in America established the rules for themselves and the rest of us. After all leftists are morally superior, more compassionate and just plain better than anyone else, just ask Stalin or Mao or Adolph. Being a leftist means never having to say you’re sorry.

    BTW, Franken is not accepting responsibility for his actions. The last line of his apology stated “I understand why we need to listen to and believe women’s experiences.”. That line shows he is blaming all men not himself personally for what he did. “We need to listen” and for some crazy-azzed reason believe women’s experiences. Like women have never, ever lied. Indeed.

    Rev.Hoagie® (6bbda7)

  81. Pa Bush is pretty hard on nursing homes these days.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  82. Whatever happened to the “one free grope”?

    Kevin M (752a26)

  83. Franken-Stein in 2020!!!

    Colonel Haiku (993483)

  84. Rev Hoagie

    Well Byrd’s KKK activities were well documented but he felt bad and tried to be a better man.

    If Moore did what they say back in the day he either quit cold turkey or he dropped a lot of bodies the last 25 years.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  85. 83,actually Wrestlemania is usually in April but why not Moore-Trump v. Franken-Biden with the entire roster of female wrestlers chained to a cage. To be freed, you must get groped “all the way” and then join into a battle with your liberator!

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  86. Knock 3 times on teh Kevlar if you want me
    Twice on teh plums, if teh answer is no-ooo

    Colonel Haiku (993483)

  87. dropped a lot of proteins, you mean?

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  88. this is not about morality this is about doing good policies on taxes and good judges and making the freedom ring on the ramparts underneath the glaring rockets

    there’s no reason to be all precious about it

    we gotta turn this tugboat around for the american way, and Mr. Roy Moore can help

    but socialist heinie-lick Doug Ross can only make everything suck even more

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  89. oopers Doug Jones i mean why did i say ross

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  90. Has anyone seen Death Race 2 and Death Race 3: Inferno? They should be right up your alley Mr urbanleftbehind.

    Men and women fight to the death for the opportunity to drive to the death. Look up Tanit Phoenix. Touch with your eyes, not with your hands.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  91. can’t help but feel like we are supposed to be applauding the left’s collective epiphanies about the real Bill Clinton. Sorry. Too little, too late.

    However, when the most holy and self-righteous pedants with a pedophile foot sticking out of the closet got exercised at blowjobs in the WH it was a different story. He smarmy; me smarmy too, never occurs to the hypocrite.

    Ben burn (fa76bc)

  92. There is no doubt in anybody’s mind that Franken is the kind of person who would do that kind of thing

    Such confident hyperbole…

    Ben burn (fa76bc)

  93. Bob Jones is looking pretty good about now

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  94. DC, if you think lack of modesty is the cause, just look at Tariq Ramadan. His rape victims include veiled women.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/world/europe/tariq-ramadan-oxford-rape.html

    Patricia (5fc097)

  95. Men are such scumbags.

    Ben burn (fa76bc)

  96. stuart started out stealing a feel ended up stealing an election…

    mg (60b0f7)

  97. Alberto Danger – How many more?

    mg (60b0f7)

  98. good day for Sessions

    mg (60b0f7)

  99. There is a bridge over Bob Jone’s grave and students go there to kiss over his dead body.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  100. This will be described as a matter in the Mpls. Tribune.

    mg (60b0f7)

  101. Just waiting on a tweet from mittens!!!!!
    You know the idiot who gave us Jonathon Gruber.

    mg (60b0f7)

  102. Some guys are so sick they pay another guy from Craigslist to cut off their nads at a Motel 6.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  103. What Trump hath rot

    http://cookpolitical.com/analysis/house/house-overview/wave-comin

    The last time Democrats enjoyed a margin of +8 or more in a mid-term year was 2006. That year, Democrats won the House vote by 8.5 percent. The last time that Democrats got into the double digits was 2008 when they carried the House vote by D+11. This has led to a lots of talk that Democrats can only hit significant margins of victory in presidential elections when their base is more engaged and involved. It also helped to have a transformational candidate – Barack Obama – at the top of the ticket. Something they obviously don’t have in 2018. But, there is precedent for Democrats winning the House vote by double digits in mid-term years. In the post-Watergate midterm of 1974, Democrats won by a whopping 17 points. In Ronald Reagan’s first midterm of 1982, Democrats won the House vote by 12 points.

    Ben burn (fa76bc)

  104. Keep dreamin’, beenburned

    Colonel Haiku (993483)

  105. Haiku-ka-choob!

    Lay some parody on us.

    Ben burn (fa76bc)

  106. Franken-Stein in 2020!!!

    I guess that’s better than Franken-Wiener.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  107. There are plenty of 80 and 90 year old rape victims so it’s not just a case of look so or showing the goods.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  108. What do carpet and ugly girls have in common?

    They both get laid by creepy guys.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  109. Liberals will always be remembered for abusing women.
    Manson, Jones, Woody,Polanski, all Kennedys, Hollywood, The National Football League, Congress and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on.

    mg (60b0f7)

  110. Franken in 2020?

    I’d vote for cop-a-feel over pedo

    Parsing is not a conservative monopoly.

    Ben burn (fa76bc)

  111. Face it. Both sides seem to have low bars for themselves.

    Ben burn (fa76bc)

  112. 82. Mike K (b3dd19) — 11/16/2017 @ 1:26 pm

    This is far more important to you than the fact that the rape allegation is a forgery and revenge on him for ruling against her in a divorce case in 1999.

    I don’t know if that’s the explanation. She couldn’t, and didn’t, do this by herself.

    I think maybe there was only one judge for Etowah County.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  113. Wimmens abuse is ensconced in history.

    But that glass ceiling has hairline cracks since they can now own property and vote, thanks to commies.

    Ben burn (fa76bc)

  114. 113, that’s the PC version of the joke. But moving on, at least this Canadian is doing more than his US Senate counterpart in the arena of combating un-consented feels: http://pagesix.com/2017/11/15/drake-warns-fan-touching-girls-im-gonna-f-k-you-up/

    urbanleftbehind (a69ce6)

  115. Franken says his groping was just a joke…

    I Started a Joke Grope by teh Brothers Franken

    I started a grope which started teh bloggers talking
    But I didn’t see that the grope was on me oh no
    I tried to explain which started the whole world laughing
    Oh If I’d only seen that the grope was on me

    I saw kevlar vest started running my hands over her chest
    Then I started to smirk, looked at teh cam’ra like a big jerk
    ‘Till it finally died, they smothered it with a pillow
    Oh if I’d only seen that the gropes were all free

    I saw sleeping eyes, thought of tanned, creamy thighs
    And I slipped her the tongue, like a hamster I’m hung
    ‘Till I finally broke, which started the smart folks laughing
    Oh if I’d only seen that the joke was on me
    Oh no that the joke was on me

    Colonel Haiku (993483)

  116. BTW, Franken is not accepting responsibility for his actions.

    OTOH, Tweeden is accepting payment for hers; MC, Amex and VISA on her website. Screw the signed Playboy; go for the Bud poster, Hoagie.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  117. Colonel Haiku

    BB wants a parody. I’m not sure I have time so let me hand this over to you:

    The day that mama socked it to

    Etowah County ADA

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  118. Pin: I was being kind to his verse.

    Ben burn (fa76bc)

  119. He’s going full Hoagie.

    Ben burn (fa76bc)

  120. Just read where old man boosh was playing grab the pudding again. Such an ingrate.

    mg (60b0f7)

  121. Totalfreedom is being allowed to import dead elephant tables and footstools.

    Thank you Trump.

    Ben burn (fa76bc)

  122. So is it wrong for Al Bundy to tire of Peg, go to the nudie bar and then 20 years later have a major upgrade in spouse (in the opinion of some, but not all).

    urbanleftbehind (a69ce6)

  123. You can’t always get what you want.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  124. So where was
    Ann the and nine years ago, when it mattered.

    narciso (d1f714)

  125. @ Mike K,

    This is far more important to you than the fact that the rape allegation is a forgery and revenge on him for ruling against her in a divorce case in 1999.

    Link to evidence of this?

    Dana (0706dd)

  126. Mrs Kurt Sutter looks pretty good on Superior Donuts. And she’s gluten free.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  127. @75. Except ‘past profession’ was then ‘current profession’ in the context of the times when this clowning ocurred, Dana. He may have been an obnoxious slob pushing the rehearsal crap then but she certainly has no moral superiority to crow about anything today– she sold that to Playboy, Maxim, FHM and Anheiser-Busch– and is still cashing in on it. Her job on the tour was to be paraded as eye candy for sex-starved troops, not do poetry readings or geology lectures. Hell, Franken did skits in bed w/Ariana Huffington on TV back in the day.

    NK nails it cold in #55: ‘She peddles her body and then complains when men “objectify” her. Ok, then, ma’am.’

    Tweeden is seekin’ publicity; and given the deluge of these confessionals over the past month or two, a few of these were bound to start showing up in front of cameras.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  128. Mincin’ Machine teh Jacksons

    Mincin’, mincin’, mincin’!
    He’s a mincin’ machine
    Ya-ya, move it beenburned
    Mmm bop doo wop
    Automatic, systematic
    Full of failure, self contained
    Tuned out and grating on yo nerves
    Capitulating, masturbating
    He’s such a shady ‘fraidy
    Filled with stone-age design
    He’s movin’, he’s losin’
    Mincin’ until the feelin’ stops now, yeah
    Rhythmatic, asthmatic
    He’s a dynamite attraction
    Sideshow Bob got nothin’ on him, yeah
    He don’t know what he’s doin’, he’s super sad now
    He’s geared to blow his O-ring quick

    Colonel Haiku (993483)

  129. Reasons let inference, Dana,

    narciso (d1f714)

  130. Yeah, the black dudes in my h.s. always wondered why Al Bundy complained.

    urbanleftbehind (a69ce6)

  131. “…….she was the USO Tour eye candy; the Dorothy Lamour for Hope and Crosby– ‘cept she couldn’t act or sing.”

    Lol – that didn’t take long. She knew what she signed up for plus it was her looks that got her the gig, therefore slut.

    harkin (a9a478)

  132. Did you all know Katey Sagal dated Elvis? I don’t really have time to do the math on that one.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  133. @98. Visit her website, Patricia. You can’t be peddling signed softcore posters of yourself selling suds or signed Playboy covers/spreads then profess shock nd disgust at being objectified and made mockery of by a comedian when it was your stock and trade to make a living.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  134. @136. And she’s still trying to make a buck off it, Harkin, years and years later. Visit her website. Go for the signed Bud poster.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  135. Who did more behind the scenes grappling

    Elvis or Judo Gene LaBell?

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  136. Speaking of Hoagies, I prefer Dagwoods, submarines and heros.

    Ben burn (fa76bc)

  137. Imagine Lucille Ball holding a presser saying insisting “I feel violated when men are laughing at me! I’m a serious business woman.”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  138. 142

    Marilyn Monroe.. I’m shocked, shocked to learn there is this thing called the casting couch

    Ben burn (fa76bc)

  139. @140. Let’s ask Ann-Margret. Oh wait, she did USO Tours too. Did Bob Hope hit on her or did ol’ski-nose just rehearse the tickle and slap with Francis Langford. Thanks for the memories.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  140. If Jim Carey would show up as Tony Clifton at an Allred presser would be so happy.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  141. I guess victim shaming isn’t quite doing the trick:

    When you’ve lost CNN and Chris Cillizza…….

    No matter what your political affiliation, you have to see how inadequate Franken’s first apology is. He a) insists that Tweeden is misremembering an episode in which he grabbed the back of your neck and stuck his tongue in her mouth during a “rehearsal” for a kissing scene and b) minimizes a photo in which he appears to be fondling her breasts while her eyes are closed as simply a joke — albeit one in poor taste.

    ….and the former head DNC senatorial campaign committee…

    That was not an apology and was an insufficient response to serious allegations,” Cecil tweeted. “Al Franken must be held accountable if our party wants to live up to our commitment to women & girls.”

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/16/politics/franken-apology/index.html?sr=twCNN111617franken-apology0317PMVODtop

    harkin (a9a478)

  142. given a hero’s welcome Thursday by religious activists in Birmingham, Alabama, who blamed the news media for their candidate’s troubles.

    But even as he was embraced by supporters in Alabama, the White House moved to put Moore at some distance.

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/blakemontgomery/roy-moore-religious-supporters?utm_term=.dkZvvd5AX#.ebNKKZLow

    Ben burn (fa76bc)

  143. 139: “And she’s still trying to make a buck off it,”

    So all beautiful women expect to be harrassed and not complain about it, got it!

    harkin (a9a478)

  144. @137-Given Peg’s prowess in the kitchen, PP, it’s likely when Elvis got hooked on peanut butter and banana sandwiches.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  145. Using the standards recently cobbled together by the Senate, Franken should resign or be expelled.

    Colonel Haiku (993483)

  146. What’s daredevil got to with it.?

    narciso (d1f714)

  147. @148. No, you don’t get it; see #55. NK nails it cold.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  148. Mr. Moore is a very nice gentleman slow to anger and quick with spatula come time to make sunday morning pancakes

    he’s like already one of my best friends and i never even met him

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  149. ASPCA shows why he lives alone, with his elderly mother.

    Colonel Haiku (993483)

  150. oops quick with *a* spatula i mean

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  151. The left has a sad and apologizes while the wringers deny and dissemble.

    Natch!

    Ben burn (fa76bc)

  152. nobody says natch anymore

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  153. =Haiku= Gesundheit!

    And using the standards recently cobbled together by the House, Haiku has to declare his waitressing tips from Hooters.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  154. This all began with the zampolit mackinnon who determined all male female interactions were invasive.

    narciso (d1f714)

  155. Leeann Tweeden needs to try a UCB class

    Yes, and?

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  156. @161. Visit her store, PP, and review the flesh peddling. She’s quite the hypocrite.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  157. Narco: We’re you two buddies?

    Montano pretty much has exhausted his legal options as far as fighting extradition goes. All he has left is a last-ditch appeal to the Supreme Court that nobody believes has a chance. It is striking, though, that, under an administration* that has been half-mad on illegal immigration, and under which ICE agents have been allowed to go completely cowboy, an undocumented immigrant complicit in eight murders still sits in a cell in North Carolina. One might even say…sad!

    http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a13728531/el-salvador-priest-murders-reagan/

    Ben burn (fa76bc)

  158. He did the time, do the crime, although the regime is presided over by a leading flmn commissar so let him serve it here

    narciso (d1f714)

  159. Deport him to his home country..what’s he afraid of?

    Ben burn (fa76bc)

  160. babalublog.com/2017/11/15/remember-the-victims-of-communism-in-cuba-the-37-victims-of-the-13-de-marzo-tugboat-massacre

    narciso (d1f714)

  161. Let him enjoy the accommodations.

    Ben burn (fa76bc)


  162. 141.Speaking of Hoagies, I prefer Dagwoods, submarines and heros.
    Ben burn (fa76bc) — 11/16/2017 @ 3:30 pm

    Why am I not surprised, Ben!? You apparently know as much about food as you do politics.

    First, a Dagwood is a tall, multi layered sandwich made from a variety of meats, cheeses and condiments on rye bread.

    Second, a submarine is a cheap knock-off of the original hoagie as are heros and zeppelins. These sandwiches may or may not include Italian and American meats and cheeses whereas a hoagie is made with provolone cheese and Italian meats exclusively since their origin was South Philly Italian ship workers at Hog Island. The hoagie roll is also exclusively Italian bread, not so the others. The correct condiments for an authentic hoagie are: EVOO, red wine vinegar, a dusting of grated parmesan and a dash of oregano. The others generally slap on a swipe of mayo, salt & pepper, unheard of on a hoagie.

    The best and most authentic hoagie is a fresh Italian roll (crisp outside and soft inside), a bed of sharp aged provolone cheese, a layer of Genoa salami, a layer of capacola (pronounced gabba-ghoul), and a layer of sopressata all topped with some shredded lettuce, thin sliced yellow onions, Sliced Campari tomatoes, a dash of parm, a dash of oregano and splashed with EVOO and vinegar.

    I have never heard of a person who after eating an authentic hoagie claim to prefer any of those others. Then again there are people who bought Ford Pintos. No accounting for taste or the lack thereof.

    Rev.Hoagie® (6bbda7)

  163. Then you’ve never had a veal parm hero in Brooklyn, Hoagie.

    Sounds like your hoagie is just another Jersey Mike’s. Pedestrian fare..

    Ben burn (fa76bc)

  164. Memo to Leeann Tweeden: Visited your own website lately?

    ‘I feel disgusted and violated.’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  165. Any yearbooks over there?

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  166. I swear D.C. Is mocking hf. He must be.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  167. I’m a bat to basics fellow if kerensky hadn’t lost his nerve:
    http://www.whale.to/c/kornilov.html

    narciso (d1f714)

  168. You could be mocking me too. I can be a tad naive sometimes.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  169. So they are bringing network to stage in London, with Bryan Cranston and Michelle mockery, entirely wring casting.

    narciso (d1f714)

  170. Where Franken is going to get hurt is that his first statement denied the incident.

    He said “I remember the rehearsal differently.”

    I’m not sure how he gets away from that.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  171. @175. Speaks volumes about the economics over the creativity. Cheaper then risking investment in cultivating new talent and fresh story concepts. Bad trend.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  172. @171/173 LOL

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  173. ^172. Oh hell, it’s all fun and games.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  174. Although dickery is an interesting choice for dunaways part.

    narciso (d1f714)

  175. Good news: Tweeden has a witness

    Bad news: it’s Brian Williams.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  176. @182. PP: ROFLMAO *****

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  177. @180. Narciso, you think Dunnaway was a good fit for the original flick or was it just she was a bankable name then. If memory serves, Lumet wanted George C. Scott for Beale but he passed on it.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  178. Yes, definitely. I do apply one standard to the lady who lines up the Sunday school kids for Communion on Sunday, and another to a woman who poses for nude photos.

    I would be outraged if Franken did those those things to the church lady. As for Leeann Tweeden, that’s a matter between her, Franken and her fancy man, and I refuse to consider her a victim, except possibly of theft (that is what she sells after all).

    nk (dbc370)

  179. Memo to Leeann Tweeden: Visited your own website lately?

    Classic blaming the victim. So just how short was your skirt Ms. “Rape Victim”?

    You had a comment with a bunch of links in moderation because of the number of links.

    I threw it in the trash. Which I ought to do with all your stupid comments on this thread.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  180. 168 Rev —

    One minor, yet exquisite variation…first, put the Italian roll in a pizza oven to crisp the exterior while making the interior warm and soft – about 1 minute does it. Then layer in the ingredients, just as you describe. My mouth is watering.

    And no, Jersey Mike’s isn’t even in the same zip code as a hoagie, Burn.

    Lenny (5ea732)

  181. Slow Joe Biden… come to the white courtesy phone… Slow Joe Biden…

    Colonel Haiku (993483)

  182. 163 through 165:
    Catalonia may want him for his “expertise”.

    urbanleftbehind (a69ce6)

  183. @ Kevin M,

    There’s a difference between “party loyalty” and defensive politics. Often it means that you DO have to choose between “bad” and “terrible”. That does not mean that you are loyal to “bad.”

    And yet as you demonstrate in your next sentence, there is a third choice of not voting at all.

    Dana (023079)

  184. 7 days away from a tasty schlotsky’s

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  185. @186. My bad on the links, P. But she’s a hypocrite and publicity seeker- which we all should expect to start surfacing given the flood of confessionals on this topic over the past few months. Nobody’s blaming her for Franen’s obnoxious behavior but her hypocrisy should be exposed.

    NK nails it cold in #55: ‘She peddles her body and then complains when men “objectify” her. Ok, then, ma’am.’ It’s not her past profession but her current commerce.

    Imagine Lucille Ball holding a presser saying, ‘I feel violated when men laugh at me, I’m a serious business woman.’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  186. Madrid maybe, the paramilitaries realized that the lesson on the sandinista revolution was hsomoza want repressive enough, sort of the same one about egypt

    narciso (d1f714)

  187. nk

    One of my dad’s friends told his daughter’s date he’d dust her for fingerprints when she got home. Which may sound a little creepy too but it was a different time in the late 90’s.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  188. @185. High five, home run, nk.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  189. This is pretty funny…

    “Coming soon: Nina Burleigh offers a blowjob to Al Franken for his heroic efforts in stopping molestation in the military, at least when he’s not molesting women while on military transport planes.”

    — Ace… Ace of Spades

    Colonel Haiku (993483)

  190. Let me clarify: When I say party loyalty, I am referring to those Republicans who defended Trump against the accusations of sexual misconduct, defend Moore from similar accusations (but worse because one involves a minor) and yet these same people denigrate Bill Clinton and have no trouble believing he assaulted women. It is a selective application of standards based on party lines. Further, the same people have and continue to believe and defend Juanita Broaderrick and Kathleen Willey in their claims against Bill Clinton, disbelieve the accusers in the Moore case, and even worse, condemn Leeann Tweeden in the Franken case because she once worked as a model for men’s mags. What’s really ridiculous though about that is, the women in the Moore case weren’t former models for men’s mags. They weren’t strippers or hookers. They were just working women trying to make a living. But even they get diminished and shamed.

    So what I am seeing here from a number of commenters, is a basic thinking that “If you wear a short skirt, you are asking for it.” Why do you Moore supporters believe he is who he claims to be and presents before the public, and yet disbelieve private citizens who have an extraordinary amount to lose, and not much to gain in having every corner of their private lives exposed before the public?

    Further, since when is the standard of sexual assault determined by the victim’s previous occupation?

    Dana (023079)

  191. ‘She peddles her body and then complains when men “objectify” her. So, because a woman modeled in men’s mags, and has a man stick his tongue down her throat uninvited, she was asking for it? And if he grabs her breasts, for whatever reason, she was asking for that too??? Is that what we’re saying here?

    Dana (023079)

  192. What is her hypocrisy? She chooses to use her body to fill a market demand and make a living off of it. A man chooses to use her body without permission to fill his sexual urge and that’s o.k. because of her work? Does the law change based on one’s occupation??

    Dana (023079)

  193. You may be buying the sizzle but you don’t get to fondle the steak Back of House.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  194. Like Sam Elliot said you don’t touch the girls and you don’t eat the big white mint.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  195. So what I am seeing here from a number of commenters, is a basic thinking that “If you wear a short skirt, you are asking for it.”

    No, what NK posted nails it perfectly: #55: ‘She peddles her body and then complains when men “objectify” her. Ok, then, ma’am.’

    That doesn’t excuse Franken’s obno-behavior in the context of the times but she sold the moral grounds for outrage out from under herself years ago. And it’s not a merely a previous occupation but it’s current commerce for her; she makes a buck off it now selling it. And she’s accepted his apology. This was a publicity move and we all ought to expect more of this now as the floodgates are opened– so the buyer beware.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  196. i heard Mr. Franken did a man kiss on her

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  197. https://www.getdoms.com
    homemade ciabatta.

    mg (60b0f7)

  198. Not exactly, Dana. I’m talking about victim impact — innocence violated, chastity defiled, womanhood degraded. Which is minimal in Ms. Tweeden’s case compared to what she had already done to herself.

    nk (dbc370)

  199. @203. Saw him crawl into bed on live TV with Ariana Huffington, Mr, Feet! Under the sheets! Shocking!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  200. Jersey Mike should be buried under concrete in an end zone.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  201. NK, you are simply brilliant.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  202. I love all kinds of sandwiches including PBJ, but fresh lobster on a brioche roll topped with fried shallots is foodie heaven.

    mg (60b0f7)

  203. i think the closest we have here is this

    i’m a do lunch there before end of year and bring some sourdough home and maybe some what have you as well

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  204. no must not mean no in attorneyspeak.

    mg (60b0f7)

  205. Saw him crawl into bed on live TV with Ariana Huffington, Mr, Feet!

    we all knew those short skirts would catch up with her one day

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  206. thats right off I-90, I will check it out next time through, happyfeet.

    mg (60b0f7)

  207. Al could stay working for the government with the TSA but that may be a little too on the nose.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  208. How rapey are you allowed to be if an actress uses a body double?

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  209. With the Melendez fix in, stuart will be staying on as senator from the loon star state.

    mg (60b0f7)

  210. Is drawing d**** on passed out people considered defacing?

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  211. I think you said it better, DCSCA:

    That doesn’t excuse Franken’s obno-behavior in the context of the times but she sold the moral grounds for outrage out from under herself years ago.

    nk (dbc370)

  212. @nk: After four decades in the media biz, can spot a play for publicity a mile away. Unlike the Moore women, who avoided cameras, sought obscurity and did print and/or no pressers– or one presser and no more, Tweeden is running toward the cameras; she’s hitting every outlet she can. 24 hours ago few knew who she was– now her name’s been around the world a dozen times.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  213. I don’t think she is forty,

    narciso (d1f714)

  214. They told me if I didn’t vote for Donald Trump, the country would be consumed by a swirling cesspool of lies, immorality, corruption and hypocrisy right before my very eyes…and they were right!

    Dave (445e97)

  215. You look so good asleep

    I groped you, it’s easy to see

    You look so good asleep

    I wish that your “type”

    Was “creepy”

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  216. (1) Those who think the Franken photo was sexual or predatory in any meaningful sense (above a sort of 12 year old fart-joke type level), well, God help you. On the other hand, all allegations about Moore are clearly sexual, and clearly predatory. Franken set the picture up and posed for the picture, for God’s sake!

    Moreover, so far as I am aware Franken did not admit that there was any actual touching in the least. And even if there was touching, the photo (the gag, as it were, the whole raison d’etre) shows it to have been (a) the barest of fingertips, (b) to a kevlar vest, ( c) on a sleeping woman. Horrors!!!!

    The whole thing is about as “sexual” in any real sense (e.g., attempted sexual gratification) as if Franken had placed a whoopie cushion such that Tweeden’s well-recognizable-and-compensated butt would (unbeknownst to her!! horrors!! her butt!!) plop down on it, to the desired juvenile effect. Now, children, in how many significant ways is that different than the sort of sexual advances Moore (is alleged to have) made to young things, and the sorts of sexual acts Moore (is alleged to have) subjected those young, young, girls to?

    That said, Franken regrets posing for and having the picture taken and shared. Which is probably a sensible thing to apologize for. At least if you’re in the US Senate.

    (2) As for the “unwanted rehearsal kiss”, that is an entirely different subject. A different subject entirely. And so far as I am aware, Franken has said/suggested that his recollection of that rehearsal kiss is quite different from Tweeden’s. He-said-She-said. Oh my! This comes up alot, doesn’t it? Yup. Life is like that, buckeroos. A one-off he-said-she-said. They can be toughies, no doubt.

    So. Who are you going to believe, and – more importantly – why? Or will you withhold any judgment at all, at least on the basis of what is presently known, as informed by your biases? And will you seek to inquire as to what your biases might be and at least consider adjusting for same?

    Q! (86710c)

  217. I think what Mr nk may be saying is LT did a slip and fall from a prone position

    Who said you can’t fall off the floor?

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  218. @221. Alas, I’m way past it. The boys and girls at Hill & Knowlton couldn’t have dropped this better. Pick a Thursday and let it run through the weekend cycles.

    DCSCA (797bc0)


  219. 169.Then you’ve never had a veal parm hero in Brooklyn, Hoagie.

    Sounds like your hoagie is just another Jersey Mike’s. Pedestrian fare..
    Ben burn (fa76bc) — 11/16/2017 @ 4:24 pm

    Sorry Ben!, but if you’re under the impression a Hog Island hoagie is “just another Jersey Mikes’s” anything you just don’t know your sammiches. P.S. calling a veal parm sandwich a “hero” does not make it one. Oh, I forgot with you leftists if a sandwich “identifies” as a hero it is one. Sorry. Even if heros have cold cuts mot veal.


    One minor, yet exquisite variation…first, put the Italian roll in a pizza oven to crisp the exterior while making the interior warm and soft – about 1 minute does it.

    I like that too, Lenny but factually it’s not the authentic Hog Island. Plus, if you take a hoagie then top it with another layer of Provolome cheese and bake it in the oven for a few minutes it becomes an Italian Grinder.

    Happyfeet, that D’amatos joint looks just like the South Philly joints here. Chicago has great food all around. I love that city for its cuisine especially your deep dish pizza and Italian beef.

    Rev.Hoagie® (6bbda7)

  220. Dave’s ******* that chicken

    Steady as a clock

    Doin’ a little thing called

    The NeverTrump Rock

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  221. No, I’m not going that far, Pinandpuller.

    I do wish that certain people should not insist that we give the same value to Heidi Fleiss that we give to Mother Teresa. Or more on point, give the same value to a woman who poses nude that we give to a sixteen-year old girl trying to earn her daily bread at an after-school waitress job.

    nk (dbc370)

  222. @224. Q, this is a publicity play. And Franken knows it, too; he’s been in the Biz and immediately quashed the flames on his end by apologizing and calling for his own investigation. So for a cycle or two, rather than shun publicity out of shame, LT runs toward the cameras for face time. Just watch her demeanor. And w/a higher profile now, don’t be surprised when she wants more $ when her contract is up for renewal. It’s a smooth play by her– well timed given the climate of our times. Expect more in the months to come.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  223. Sues not pitching a memoir, like stuart smalley for the better part of a year, I’ll except seppuku crow him then he can on his way, I think that’s fair.

    narciso (d1f714)

  224. nk

    I always have to read your comments and drive around and reflect. You are almost always more subtle than say The Star Wars Holiday Special.

    I only said that because Kroger for some reason was playing that *** awful R2D2 laden disco monstrosity

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  225. Its not as bad as the kiss in Manhattan special, is it?

    narciso (d1f714)

  226. @229. The more she’s on TV– hell, CNN let her ramble live for half an hour- the more bubbly she gets. Lots of smiling and ‘surprise’ cameras are following her. She threw a well-play PR card and Franken, no stranger to the Biz, knew what to do on his end- apologize, call for his own investigation, douse the flames arounds ghim and leave the cameras to her. We’re going to start seeing a lot more of these confessionals until a new shiny object gets everyone’s attention.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  227. Quite a thing to watch this attempted virtue signaling by Democrats as they jettison Bill and Hillary Clinton, now that they are no longer useful to them. Very amusing.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  228. They should focus on their strength like the history of comedy, or hope the Malaysian jetliner will come back from 1977, like the Philadelphia experiment.

    narciso (d1f714)

  229. and leave that poor little chicken alone, Dave.

    Oh, and Dave puts the __________ in chicken.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  230. I apologize to Dave if my recollection of Marty Stuart’s Hillbilly Rock differs from his.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  231. “Further, since when is the standard of sexual assault determined by the victim’s previous occupation?”

    When it benefits a Democrat. See “Drag a fifty dollar bill through a trailer park you never know what you will turn up”

    Thud Muffle (17ac6b)

  232. @235. =Haiku= Gesundheit!

    Who?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  233. There is nothing wrong with gazing appreciatively at the nude body of a consenting, beautiful woman. She’s one of God’s most precious gifts to man. Down with all this moralistic tongue-clucking.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  234. @230 I suspect that you may well be right, DCSCA. But the tenor of many (many) comments I’ve seen has been stunningly ignorant and/or disingenuous, or perhaps just bat=sh*t cray-cray and/or two-faced, and I’m not talking about only here.

    But there’s a disgusting, indelible photograph from the cargo plane that took them home from Afghanistan. In it, Tweeden has fallen asleep in her flak jacket, and Franken, grinning at the camera, appears to grope her breasts. [NYT Columnist, emphasis added.]

    “Disgusting”??? Where’s the sensible talk about snowflakes when you really need it, eh?

    Q! (86710c)

  235. @242- Now the Entertainer in Chief has tweeted about it, too- as attention-making is his forte; just adds to that certainty. ‘Frankenstien’ he spells it, no less.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  236. Franken is still a pig regardless of how well-trodden the mud he wallowed in is.

    nk (dbc370)

  237. @242. Well, most are lawyers, not really versed or experienced in marketing/media/advertising strategies. Would be interesting in media circles to know when her contract is up for renewal though. With this blast of name recognition, she can ask for more now and likely get it.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  238. It has nothing to do with loss of innocence. It’s about violation. Can’t a man be prosecuted for raping a prostitute? Surely the prostitute has lost little or no innocence, but it’s still rape.

    Tillman (a95660)

  239. @244. No argument there. He was hired as one of the original SNL writers– not as on air talent.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  240. Stu Smalley best hope LT hasn’t been hanging out a lot with Dana Loesch lately.

    urbanleftbehind (a69ce6)

  241. @17. I’ll take this whole reevaluation of Bill Clinton by progressives seriously when we start to see institutions named in his honor rename themselves.

    So they diss Bill and change the name of the Clinton Foundation to… the Clinton Foundation, after his wife, Hillary. Saves $ on stationery. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  242. Mr nk

    So are you saying LT has a split estate viz her surface and mineral rights?

    She foolishly sold her mineral rights so if some trucks despoil her driveway that’s on her?

    Smart women get $1000 an acre earnest money and at least a sixth royalty and a contract before the drillings starts.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  243. Would you get arrested by a cop for merely touching her Kevlar jacket? Please do a test Mr Q.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  244. The other lean, got herself a reality show for a spell, ‘they bought the stage’ not us.

    narciso (d1f714)

  245. No no no Mr nk I think I get it.

    AF thought he had an easement across LT’s mouth.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  246. Its part of the rwaluty show virus, that spread from the real world, the only good thing about it wee Mrs. Jean daffy.

    narciso (d1f714)

  247. Tennessee is a “fence out” state. If you want to keep animals at bay you have to “erect” barriers. Or shoot, shovel and shut up.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  248. Reality and Rachel camps, Mrs Sean daffy.

    narciso (d1f714)

  249. 254, Mike who became the WWEs The Miz and his fellow Cleveland foil Cora weren’t bad either.

    urbanleftbehind (a69ce6)

  250. @256. In other news of some consequence: didn’t the GOP House just vote a bill through to raise middle class taxes? No matter; on to the Senate. More LT, please!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  251. And Puck was alt-right before there was an alt-right.

    urbanleftbehind (a69ce6)

  252. OT – Gene Simmons, or his real name, “Chaim Witz, who dresses like a preening teenager at age 68″ was banned from Fox News.
    “…he crudely insulted female Fox staffers, taunted them and exposed his chest, and otherwise behaved like the “demon” character he plays onstage. Management was not amused…”

    Tillman (a95660)

  253. I haven’t really followed the cast, since then, all the outrageous acts like Ozzie were domesticated, which meant more strange had to be mainlined.

    narciso (d1f714)

  254. Bradley Cooper is supposed to play Vince McMahon.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  255. @256

    Why do the top minds at “weasel zippers” think an AK-47 is not an assault rifle?

    Davethulhu (6a4a84)

  256. Gene Simmons picked cactus fruit and sold it to the tourists in Israel as a young lad and taught sixth grade in Brooklyn before becoming a rocker. He’s no dummy. Who invited a bull to the China shop? Put him in a remote studio like Miller or Carolla. His marriage to Shannon Tweed is as open as The Hollywood Bowl and holds more seats.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  257. That’s who I meant, the staff at fox has gone all snowflAke kat gimpy is the nexus prototype

    narciso (d1f714)

  258. Weasel Zippers is just running a Daily Caller story. Where do you get that other Dave? A lot of good 40 shots did them. They shoot as well as The Saviors.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  259. @268 Scroll to the bottom, they added a little editorial:

    Davethulhu (6a4a84)

  260. P&P, according to the Daily Beast article, this was not his first Fox appearance: “Kiss frontman Gene Simmons — until this week, a favorite guest on Fox News and Fox Business Network programs, which couldn’t get enough of his supposedly outrageous rock-star antics mixed with conservative politics.”

    Tillman (a95660)

  261. Note: An AK-47 is not an assault rifle.

    Davethulhu (6a4a84)

  262. Daily basilisk, snorfle, this is the same publication that ran an expletive deleted byline.

    narciso (d1f714)

  263. Narciso attacking a source is never not hilarious.

    Davethulhu (6a4a84)

  264. @ Mike K,
    This is far more important to you than the fact that the rape allegation is a forgery and revenge on him for ruling against her in a divorce case in 1999.
    Link to evidence of this?

    Dana (0706dd) — 11/16/2017 @ 3:11 pm

    Apparently. Moore signed off on her motion to dismiss the first time she filed for divorce because she reconciled. The actual divorce came later. under a different judge.

    Thinkprogress (yes, I know) has a link to the Twitter account which published what it claimed were copies of the court filings
    https://thinkprogress.org/roy-moore-beverly-nelson-divorce-2aeaeeb17ce9/

    kishnevi (1e395f)

  265. Or loyalty to ethnicity. Like when all those white people defended the white lacrosse players against that poor black girl.

    jcurtis (fd961b)

  266. Take morning noke its head clown has a death of a staffer covered up by a corrupt medical examiner was conducting a long term affair with his co-host, boasts a fellow fined for insurance fraud (rattner) a fellow who welshe a real estate transactionb (deutsch) and a known plagiarist (barnacle) sometimes two if Doris Goodwin stops by.

    narciso (d1f714)

  267. And the New Yorker has quotes from her divorce lawyer which touch on some issues raised yesterday.
    https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/roy-moore-disingenuous-defense

    kishnevi (1e395f)

  268. Well thinkregress has been known to misrepresent documents before.

    narciso (d1f714)

  269. Weren’t they caught lying about the mall banning earlier.

    narciso (d1f714)

  270. Gene Simmons has an insane box set out. It’s literally as big a single a supermarket display. It costs like 5k. Did you know he wrote a song with Bob Dylan?

    One lucky fan (Megyn Kelly) will get it hand delivered.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  271. And btw, do remember this: Moore flagrantly and as publicly as possible violated his oath of office. That’s true even if you think he was right on the First Amendment issues and innocent of the sexual harrassment charges. If we lived in a society which actually valued integrity, people would cross the sidewalk to avoid him, and he wouldn’t even be elected ratcatcher.

    kishnevi (1e395f)

  272. So are you saying it’s a machine gun or battle rifle? Is a 7.62 x39 too big of a round?

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  273. Well thinkregress has been known to misrepresent documents before.

    If they hadn’t linked to their source, the Twitter account, I wouldn’t have linked them. But you can link through and ignore them.

    kishnevi (1e395f)

  274. Oh, pish… I say Moore has a chance… http://ace.mu.nu/archives/Cousins.jpg

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  275. I take more issue with calling Gene Simmons a frontman. Like Johhny Renick’s bass player sings four Goo Goo Dolls songs and he’s a frontman? Is that what broke up Blink-182?

    Co-founder. Occasional singer. No good songs AFAIAC.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  276. Only if you think this society should be devoid of the judeochristian heritage of our founding, how is that working out so far, the.

    The harassment allegations are another box of alreds assortment from whizzo chocolate.

    narciso (d1f714)

  277. Just like the sitting the eyes that Mueller did with this travismockasham

    narciso (d1f714)

  278. So we’ll see when and if, the settlements re congressperson and staff are released.

    narciso (d1f714)

  279. Mr kishnevi

    I started listening to a podcast tonight: The Fighter and the Kid. Their guest is Ari Shaffir. They said his first name means “lion”. True?

    Also have you seen Ari Shaffir as The Amazing Racist? He’s incredible.

    Pinandpuller (0b27d4)

  280. Who does Tiffany Haddish think she is… Al Franken?

    Or maybe he just ghostwrote the skit. Kate McKinnon, when is your press conference?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaeYderRnsA

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  281. Another perspective:

    https://spectator.org/judge-roy-moore-the-
    bannonites-versus-the-swamp/

    narciso (d1f714)

  282. It has nothing to do with loss of innocence. It’s about violation. Can’t a man be prosecuted for raping a prostitute? Surely the prostitute has lost little or no innocence, but it’s still rape.

    This might be simple battery in Illinois and in other Model Penal Code states. A misdemeanor punishable by up to 364 days in jail.

    Sec. 12-3. Battery.
    (a) A person commits battery if he or she knowingly without legal justification by any means (1) causes bodily harm to an individual or (2) makes physical contact of an insulting or provoking nature with an individual.
    (b) Sentence.
    Battery is a Class A misdemeanor.

    nk (dbc370)

  283. @282

    Weasel Zippers, not me. I know what an assault rifle is.

    Davethulhu (6a4a84)

  284. @282

    Weasel Zippers, not me. I know what an assault rifle is.
    Davethulhu (6a4a84) — 11/16/2017 @ 10:06 pm

    Sorry, I was on mobile all night. Weasel Zippers is an aggregator I believe. WZ put the note at the bottom about the assault rifle. I’ve never thought much about the AK being or not being an Assault Rifle. Just going off my ever failing memory I would guess that “not an AR” is based on the 7.62×39 round which is too powerful to be classified as such. The round is one of the criteria to meet AR classification. Sounds about right.

    Pinandpuller (f33b57)

  285. Does anyone watch Stan against Evil?

    Pinandpuller (f33b57)

  286. And yet as you demonstrate in your next sentence, there is a third choice of not voting at all.

    Yes, Dana, which is why I said ‘Often it means that you DO have to choose between “bad” and “terrible”.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  287. And it’s about time for Moore to give it up. He had a week to put this behind him, and failed. If I lived in Alabama I’d be writing in Luther Strange’s name — assuming nothing happens to give a better choice.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  288. Prediction: If Franken resigns, there will be blood in the water and there will be a dozen more soon thereafter.

    OTOH, impeached federal judge (taking bribes from drug dealers) Alcee Hastings (D-Fl) remains a member of Congress, so they do protect their own. Franken should be safe.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  289. Is Franken up in two years? Looks like he’s up in 2020. Yeah run in the Democratic presidential primary, Al.

    Pinandpuller (f33b57)

  290. @294
    I’ve never heard anyone claim an ak-47 isn’t an assault rifle. I think that they’re seeing “assault rifle” and thinking “assault weapon” (which isn’t an actual thing). Someone in the comments makes the same error. I was mostly using it as an example to bag on weaselzippers, and maybe make a pedantic point that people should link the original source, rather than an aggregator, because aggregators often editorialize or alter the original article. Gateway Pundit is an especially egregious example of this.

    Davethulhu (6a4a84)

  291. @242. Q- postscript. It’s not like that image was some super-secret photo for he personal pleasure of one person, either. Believe it was apparently on the tours gifted “gag reel” of CD images all the members were given at the end of the engagement. That doesn’t excuse Franken’s frat boy behavior at all, but bad clowning in context is a factor– and what else is imaged on that CD of other tour members. But many years later, in the climate of 2017, almost any imagery or soundbite from then can be seen very differently now.

    As the great Tom Lehrer once sang: ‘When correctly viewed; everything is lewd; I can tell you things about Peter Pan; And the Wizard of Oz– there’s a dirty old man.’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  292. A little ditty, about Al and Leeann

    Two American camw***** performing

    In Afghanistan

    Al is gonna get a senator’s pass

    Leeann’s debut, shocking, showing her a**

    Chowing down MRE’s, inside a sandy moat

    Al’s getting in Leeann’s space

    Jammed his tongue down her throat

    Al says “Hey Leeann, I might go off script

    Play along, you know, if your bodice gets ripped

    And they say oh yeah, sin goes on

    Long after the thrill of sinning is gone

    Oh yeah, sin goes on

    Long after the thrill of sinning is gone

    They come home

    Albert thinks back

    Consults his lawyer for a moment

    Scratches his wherever and does his best Geraldine

    Then and there Al has got a faulty memory

    Leeann says “Franken, you didn’t forget a damn thing!”

    Al says “Oh yeah, sin goes on

    Long after the thrill of sinning is gone

    Oh yeah, they say sin goes on

    Long after the thrill of sinning is gone

    So let it ride, let it go

    The Bible Belt ain’t gonna save me, no

    Hold on to ti***** but just out of frame

    Reporters come around real quick it’s too hard to explain

    Oh yeah, sin goes on

    Long after the thrill of sinning is gone

    Oh yeah they say sin goes on

    Long after the thrill of sinning is gone

    A little ditty, about Al and Leeann

    Two American camw***** doing’ the best that they can

    Pinandpuller (f33b57)

  293. What I got you gotta get it put it in you

    What I got you gotta get it put it in you

    What I got you gotta get it put in you

    Reeling with the feeling don’t stop continue


    From Congressional Karaoke

    Pinandpuller (f33b57)

  294. If this whole thing wasn’t going on, all we would say about what Al Franken did is that it was like Animal House, and he should be ashamed of himself. There’s enough unclarity about what they were supposed to do for it to be possible for him to assume what he did would be consensual – although it is should have been very clear to him and he knew he had the upper hand in getting her to agree to this or that.

    And then also he went a little bit beyond even that. He sort of like forced her to agree to a kiss – and then one time did something more.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  295. Pinandpuller @289. Ari does mean lion – and there are names that mean bear (Dov), dog (Calev – rare) dove or pigeon (Yonah) and wolf (Ze’ev)and also for girls, bee (Devorah – in English Deborah)

    The meaning has been lost to most people.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  296. 279. narciso (d1f714) — 11/16/2017 @ 8:54 pm

    Weren’t they caught lying about the mall banning earlier.

    I don’t know that that’s been conceded as not true, but the Washington Post didn’t include that in a recent article.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  297. It’s the way these stories come out that makes the difference. There’s often an organized and big defamation campaign when it is against Republicans, accompanied by demands that people immediately without delay, without any checking, without any thinking, accept the complete truth of any allegations. It didn’t happen that way with Bill Clinton.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  298. Stuart should hire nk.

    mg (60b0f7)

  299. I believe that the same standards of evidence should be applied against O.J. Simpson and against Mark Fuhrman. And of they are, O. J. Simpson is guilty, and Mark Fuhrman is inncent – and what’s more, all of the witnesses against Mark Fuhrman are lying.

    People are being urged to fall into the fallacy of thinking that the allegations are either all true, or all false. It can be that some of them are true and some of them are false, and the true ones which are almost always less serious, used to reinforce the truth of the false ones.

    So it was with Mark Fuhrman. By the late 1980s he used the N-word, in the third person, and only when trying to impress someone as an “authentic” character. Everyone acknowledged he had used it long before – but it had been on purpose, in an attempt to get retirement on disability, which they wouldn’t let him do. And everyone real could see he hadn’t used it recently. O. J. Simpson’s lawyers asked him if he had used it in “the last ten years.” Had they said “five years” as was more in line with the his atatements – theer was a time when he said he was no longer using it – he would have been home free. But they asked 10 years, because they already knew about the tape, ins spite of any claims to the contrary.

    And none of that measnt he had framed O.J> Simpson or even falsely procured a search warrant. And the thing is, if they wanted tosay they didn’t need any accusation of racial animosity – Mark Fuhrman was among the few Los Angeles policemen who knew he had beat his wife, and he didn’t like the way the case was handled. So he could have been accused of personal bias, which is much stroner.

    But the thing is, there is no way he could have done that, and if wanted to try that, at the beginning of the case, he’d have no way of knowing if O.J. Simpson in fact did it, and if had an alibi.

    By the way, he did have an alibi, but it didn’t work because of the dog that barked. O. J. Simpson, it should be obvious, had planned to argue that by the time the murders took place, he was on a plane to Chicago, but the bodies were discovered too soon for any medical examiner he hired to be able to argue that the murder (originally he intended only one murder) to argue that the time of death was that late. (the way it worked out, he cut things even closer than he had planned. he barely made the plane on time. This was before the TSA.)

    Of course that means the murder of Nicole Brown was not spontaneous, and was planned for some time, although he may have still been pondering that night whether or not to go through with it. Why else did he use knives, and not a gun; why else did he wear gloves (so as not to leave any fingerprints)

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  300. Cowboys owner, Jerry Jones should have the families of the seven killed Houston police officers stand in front of his players during The National Anthem.

    mg (60b0f7)

  301. Mg at 310 best comment of the year

    EPWJ (a9a964)

  302. The AK-47 is THE assault rifle. The standard by which other assault rifles are judged. A carbine-sized, selective fire rifle, firing an intermediate cartridge.

    The 7.62×39 is indeed an intermediate cartridge, just a very good one. For power, range and flatness on trajectory, it is well below the 7.62x54R, the 7.62×51 NATO, the .30-06 (7.62×63), the 8mm Mauser or the other battle rifle rounds of the 20th century.

    nk (dbc370)

  303. This is why I came to revile defense attys like dershowitz in the 90s. Clearly fuhrman was going for an ellroy type fictions. Closer to what revealed in the ramparts scandal some year later, but ok couldn’t be found guilty

    narciso (d1f714)

  304. So Kevin, you really expect the clique’s pollster not to your Doug Jones from Hellboy

    narciso (d1f714)

  305. So parts of fox are being acquired by Comcast, hence the snowflAke blizzard.

    narciso (d1f714)

  306. There’s something much bigger at play here than moral judgements, worrying about inconsistencies and party affiliations.

    Colonel Haiku (993483)

  307. 310/311, Jerry Jones plus the sitting POTUS have the juice to start up the USFL again, this time with no or limited expansion. You take the ‘Boys and maybe some of their NFC East foes (Snyder Skins would be all in) plus 4 to 6 additional teams, you got something.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  308. Let it go rollerball, makes for an informal salary cap, and more turnover.

    narciso (d1f714)

  309. Well that was the point wasn’t it:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/kenklippenstein/status/931343063099891712

    narciso (d1f714)

  310. I think part of it (I think a very large part) is the Democrats trying to take back the white women they lost to Trump. Part of it is culture war, to reduce everyone and everything to the lowest common denominator, through a spurious egalitarianism.

    nk (dbc370)

  311. And what was the reason for it back in 1990-1, because they were on their Madame lafarge mode. Which they didn’t mean because bill clinton.

    narciso (d1f714)

  312. 322, that attack had an infrastructure built for Merry-o Kwa-OH MO (pronunciation courtesy of Dana Carvey as Bush I) or Tom Harkin. Also didnt have the internet back outside of campuses (IRCs) and tech centers.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  313. I typed out an answer to your 322 but it would not be appropriate to post it and it would lose its impact were I to bowdlerize it. But it relates to my comments above, about the culture war and about giving equal dignity to Heidi Fleiss and Mother Teresa.

    nk (dbc370)

  314. Because they are schizophrenic or in sincere, one side of the democrats in the anti sex league the other is gomorrah

    narciso (d1f714)

  315. Tailhook was as Steve will tell you about clipping fliers wings and putting women in combat, if you note the contradiction raise their hand.

    narciso (d1f714)

  316. As someone else put it, it’s a proxy for preventing the removal of dimbulbs like mccaskill and Stabenow, challenged by a white and African American makes respectfully.

    narciso (d1f714)

  317. @ Mike K,
    This is far more important to you than the fact that the rape allegation is a forgery and revenge on him for ruling against her in a divorce case in 1999.
    Link to evidence of this?

    Dana (0706dd) — 11/16/2017 @ 3:11 pm

    Apparently. Moore signed off on her motion to dismiss the first time she filed for divorce because she reconciled. The actual divorce came later. under a different judge.

    Thinkprogress (yes, I know) has a link to the Twitter account which published what it claimed were copies of the court filings
    https://thinkprogress.org/roy-moore-beverly-nelson-divorce-2aeaeeb17ce9/

    And she never appeared in front of Moore. Moore’s attorney lied about that.

    B-b-but Mike K told us that Moore ruled against her and this was all revenge!

    Chances of Mike K apologizing and retracting his totally false claim: zero. Trump cultists don’t apologize and they definitely do not retract. Ever.

    Expect him to ignore you (preferred) or give you a big nose of “Really? ThinkProgress?” while providing zero evidence of his own false claims.

    Patterico (b30750)

  318. Thank you kid rock for not mucking that one up, although the black R candidates didnt get the help from their own in 2006 (Butler in MI v. Stabs, Swann in PA v. Rendell, Steele in MD v. Cardin).

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  319. They tried to destroy a good man , 26 years ago, they succeeded in some degree with can, five years ago

    narciso (d1f714)

  320. Rest assured they will try to hang John James too, they just haven’t found the right implement.

    narciso (d1f714)

  321. Vegas bookmakers should have a line on which perv has the next accuser.

    mg (60b0f7)

  322. 332, after looking at his website, one “path” is blocked or already taken away…they may have to go the Steve McNair route for that.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  323. My money today would be on dirty old George.

    mg (60b0f7)

  324. They went after cosby but left weinstein alone why, you could graph the doublestandard almost exactly.

    narciso (d1f714)

  325. 320… excellent point, I agree.

    Colonel Haiku (993483)

  326. Trump cultists don’t apologize and they definitely do not retract. Ever.

    Their version of integrity taken from Jonestown.

    Ben burn (5c54d4)

  327. That’d pat of it, but I think the more particular motive to save the female incumbents

    narciso (d1f714)

  328. ugh cowardpig john mccain’s incompetent slutnavy sinks to a fresh new low

    so embarassing

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  329. One important point to know at the outset: First, it is not only important what the president knew on Feb. 14, but also what he became aware of in the weeks and months afterward. That’s because the president took additional steps to try stop the investigation of Flynn following the Oval Office meeting with Comey. A crucial part of the timeline, for example, is the efforts of the White House to stop the investigation of Flynn in late March 2017 and the revelation of Flynn’s September 2016 meeting with Turkish officials around that same time.

    https://www.justsecurity.org/47121/turkey-valentines-day-trump-obstruct-investigation-flynns-kidnap-plots/

    Ben burn (5c54d4)

  330. When do purloined documents matter again, it so hard to keep up.

    narciso (d1f714)

  331. I feel like Mueller’s prosecutors are playing with these two men as cats play with balls, just patiently batting them around, waiting for the inevitable admission that they can’t make bail because they don’t have assets they can put up because everything they own has been laundered. At which point, after getting the judge rule over and over that they’re flight risks, I suppose the government will move to throw them in the pokey, which will finally get them to consider flipping.
    https://www.emptywheel.net/2017/11/17/the-bail-fight-that-manafort-and-gates-cant-win/

    Ben burn (5c54d4)

  332. HA!HA!HA!

    WARNING: Some viewers may find the photos in this story offensive

    OKANOGAN COUNTY, Wash. – Officials with the Naval Air Station Whidbey Island said one of their aircraft was involved in the obscene skywritings spotted in Okanogan County.

    Photos sent to KREM 2 by multiple sources show skydrawings of what some people are saying is male genitalia. Some sources have even tweeted pictures of what they saw.

    A mother who lives in Okanogan who took pictures of the drawings reached out to KREM 2 to complain about the images, saying she was upset she might have to explain to her young children what the drawings were.

    Those poor, poor mothers who might have to explain to their children what male genitalia are.

    nk (dbc370)

  333. It is possible that Moore’s defense team is not so much lying as grasping at straws, and looking for an easy kill – Gloria Allred would not tell such an easily provable lie, from public legal documents, as saying that Beverly Young Nelson never had any more contact with Roy Moore, if she appeared before him in court (she actually didn’t, and Moore did not rule against her, but the circuit judge or his office signed the withdrawal of the divorce action. She later successfully petitioned for a divorce five years later.) The case was before a district judge, while Moore was a circuit judge.

    See the pictures here:

    https://thinkprogress.org/roy-moore-beverly-nelson-divorce-2aeaeeb17ce9/

    I also don’t know what the slash O.A. after his name means, and why it would be there. I said he had some clerk whose initials were D.A. It looks more like an O and anyway I don’t understand what the legal reasons would be for doing that. (the lawyer also claimed that the signature in the yearbook photo was photo shopped from a picture of something like that.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  334. Meanwhile, new book by UK Guardian reporter’s book reports new details about the Steele dossierlinks to Manafort, Page, FISA request, Clinton campaign and McCain. A little something for everyone.

    crazy (d99a88)

  335. Artistic elevation, nk.

    mg (60b0f7)

  336. Now there are some real problems with Roy Moore signing the yearbook with the title of D.A.

    https://thinkprogress.org/moore-lawyer-conspiracy-yearbook-34d7b8a72dc8/

    The general knowledge at the time when I moved here was that this guy is a lawyer cruising the mall for high-school dates,” one law enforcement source said. “I was told by a girl who worked at the mall that he’d been run off from there, from a number of stores. Maybe not legally banned, but run off.”

    The most interesting thing in this statement is that it says:

    The general knowledge at the time when I moved here was that this guy is a lawyer

    And that is inconsistent with him being the District Attorney of Etowah County. Which we know anyway from other sources that he was not.

    And that raises a question: How is it that that Beverly Young Nelson never discovered, in spite of discussing Moore and what he did to her many times over the years with her younger sister that he was never the District Attorney of Etowah County even though he once ran for that office, in 1986, and that she doesn’t even realize it till today’s day!

    There are some real problems with Beverly Young Nelson’s prepared statement (besides the two different misspellings of “Etowah,” which might have been designed to prevent an easy check of that fact by reporters and bloggers (Both Gloria Allred and Beverly Young Nelson read it right – and it would be peculiar for the New York Times to insert such an error and no others, so I assume it came from Gloria Allred’s office)

    The statement is written as if, even if she did not, her boyfriend might have a cell phone. She wanted to call him, and if had been driven home she would have called him, and yet he arrived very soon. How could she possibly hope to reach him at home? And another thing, wouldn’t she maybe have called him before she left and told him to come, and tat’s the way it would have worked? She doesn’t say she had forgotten to call him. She says that Roy Moore noticed that her boyfriend was late, which would mean that he stayed there almost every night till closing and saw her boyfried drive up and pick her up and yet he was going to rape her!

    Because nobody could touch him. Because he was District Attorney of Etowah County. Except that he wasn’t.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  337. The signature, was the key to making this flaofiodle stuck, along with the phone story of mall banning, alreds has been given two swings at this yet has bunted twice.

    narciso (d1f714)

  338. Is school in Soviet Russia. The teacher, Maria Ivanovna, draws an outline of Scandinavia and asks “Can anybody tell me what this is?” Vovotchka raises his hand: “It’s a dick, Marivana*.” Maria Ivanovna burst into tears and runs out of classroom. Comrade principal storms into classroom and asks: “All right, what did you little bastards do to made Marivana cry? And who the hell drew a dick on the board?”

    *Marivana is how you call Maria Ivanovna for short.

    nk (dbc370)

  339. Yes automistake, but it makes more sense this way.

    narciso (d1f714)

  340. She says that Roy Moore noticed that her boyfriend was late, which would mean that he stayed there almost every night till closing and saw her boyfried drive up and pick her up and yet he was going to rape her!

    yes yes right out back by the dumpster

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  341. the Senate GOP tax bill contains a tax break for owners of private jets.
    People that own jets would have payments relating to their exempted from an excise tax.
    The Republican tax plan contains several small carve outs for specific industries – from craft-beer tax breaks to changes on how people can sell stocks.

    One of those exemptions in the Senate version of the bill, the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA), would give a break to owners of private jets.

    Currently, the federal government imposes an excise tax on the use of private planes for every flight an aircraft makes. Under the Republican tax legislation, costs for maintenance and other support activities for the planes would be exempt from the excise tax. Here’s what that exempts, per the Joint Committee on Taxation’s description of the provision:

    “Applicable services include support activities related to the aircraft itself, such as its storage, maintenance, and fueling, and those related to its operation, such as the hiring and training of pilots and crew, as well as administrative services such as scheduling, flight planning, weather forecasting, obtaining insurance, and establishing and complying with safety standards.”

    It appears that the excise tax would still apply to costs directly incurred by flying. According to the JCT, the exemption would lose less than $50 million in revenue over 10 years.

    But teachers can’t deduct school supplies .

    http://www.businessinsider.com/tax-reform-trump-republican-plan-gives-break-to-private-jet-planes-2017-11?op=1

    Ben burn (5c54d4)

  342. back by the dumpster

    The pervert!

    nk (dbc370)

  343. nk,

    I don’t agree that Tweeden should have expected this. When someone “peddles her body” for money, it should be apparent she would never do things like this for free. Franken could have asked and paid her to participate in his “comedy routine” but he didn’t. Instead, he took liberties with her body because he knew any claim for damages would be minimal — precisely because of your point. But being entitled to minimal actual damages doesn’t mean there has been no damage to society from conduct like this.

    DRJ (15874d)

  344. These girls probably didn’t expect it either: Shall We Dance, Al Franken? What About That Time in Montana?

    crazy (d99a88)

  345. 320. In other words, it must be Democrats causing all this since they are the only ones who find fault with abusing women? C’mon nk.

    Tillman (a95660)

  346. Except when they didn’t for nearly 30 years, and they falsely claimed it against Clarence Thomas.

    narciso (d1f714)

  347. Weasel weigel has to be himself:
    https://mobile.twitter.com/daveweigel/status/931380491437182977

    narciso (d1f714)

  348. narciso @355. If the scanning software of a PDF made a mistake – twice – in reading the word “Etowah” it surely would have made other mistakes. These let us say, would have been corrected because theer seem to be no other mistakes remaining.

    Now any spelling checker would have shown that “Elowah” and “Etiwah” are both not words. So they would have been highlighted or the cursor put underneath it or something like that. Now a decent proofreader who was correcting the PDF might have tried to look up the name of the county. If she didn’t fact check, but just read the PDF, and read it as Elowah, she shouldn’t think Etiwah was correct when she next saw the name of the county. Unless this person is not paying any attention to the meaning. But even so, we have a name here.

    So I think it is likely that Gloria Allred supplied the prepared text in a digital form where it could be used by the New York Times as is.

    Now if you have the wrong name of the county it is not immediately checkable with a Google search as to who was the District Attorney in 1977. Having two different mispelligs really confuses the reporter, and the reporter may think one of them is correct, but they’re both wrong

    Now of course whether or noor Roy S Moore was the district attorney of Eotowah County is readily heckable through hs Wikipedia article, because he’s been famous person for some time, but as you see, still, this false claim that he was the District attorney of Etowah County has worked. And this claim was not only a made by Gloria Allred, the attorney for Beverly Young Nelson, it was also made by Paula Cibia, the attorney for another accuser, Gloria Thacker Deason, who’s not really accusing him of anything)also said that he was the district attorney.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/11/us/roy-moore-alabama-senate.html?_r=0

    A lawyer for Gloria Thacker Deason, who said she had dated Mr. Moore when she was 18 and he was in his 30s, attacked Mr. Moore’s speech.

    “He knows full well why these women did not tell what he did to them before this week,” the lawyer, Paula Cobia, said in an email. “As young teenage girls in the late 1970s, they had no way of knowing their rights, especially against him, considering he was a district attorney at the time.”

    – November 12, 2017 New York times, page A24

    Here we have “a” district attorney. Now did people call assistant district attoneys THE District Attorney.

    Now the Wikipedia artivle on roy Moore, does have:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Moore

    Moore soon moved to the district attorney’s office, working as the first full-time prosecutor in Etowah County.

    and he eventually did become a little bit important in that office. He convened a grand jury (which he was accused of doing without authorization) to investigate alleged funding shortages in the sheriff’s office. Later, after he quit and ran for county circuit-court judge in 1982, he claimed that cases were being delayed in exchange for payoffs.

    I can find no mention of the term “district attorney” in the Wikipedia talk pages, so I don’t know where the idea that he was the first full time prosecutor in that office is correct, or when that is supposed to have happened. There might something more about it in his book:

    Moore, Roy S.; John Perry (2005). So Help Me God: The Ten Commandments, Judicial Tyranny, and the Battle for Religious Freedom. Nashville, Tennessee: Broadman and Holman. ISBN 978-0-8054-3263-3.

    Anyway, there may be some collusion here in declaring Roy Moore “the” district Attorney of Etowah County in 197x. None of the reporters are thinking to check.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  349. All you got’s a lie narciso? Remember John Edwards? How ’bout Anthony Weiner, genius?

    Tillman (a95660)

  350. 352. 357. She says that Roy Moore noticed that her boyfriend was late, which would mean that he stayed there almost every night till closing and saw her boyfried drive up and pick her up and yet he was going to rape her!

    happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/17/2017 @ 8:57 am

    yes yes right out back by the dumpster

    That would have presented no problem. The boyfriend drove to he restaurant on the highway, while he was going to go by the back exit on to city streets when he finished the rape. /sarc

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  351. Only the inquirer was interested in pursuing Edwards, and you need a chart to tell the difference between this and wiener?

    narciso (d1f714)

  352. 364.

    Hence Trump asking us to assume he went further than this.

    That’s a fact. Trump wants to know about pictures 2,3,4, 5 and 6.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  353. “Only the inquirer was interested in pursuing Edwards” – wrong again.

    Tillman (a95660)

  354. I am not defending Franken, DRJ. I imagine that the UCMJ has a provision for battery committed by civilians on a military base, even if it was in another country and the wench is a wench.

    But how is it societally beneficial to treat a bad girl like a good girl? What incentive would there be, then, for good girls to be good girls?

    nk (dbc370)

  355. Ask Mickey kaus about that,

    Apparently the D0J leaked the informants name, so they want him dead like Sandra Locke in the gauntlet.

    narciso (d1f714)

  356. “…how is it societally (sic) beneficial to treat a bad girl like a good girl?” Yeah, nk, a man’s forced to take her out to the finest restaurant and drink champagne from her shoe. No, just don’t abuse her. (Can you say bifurcation?)

    Tillman (a95660)

  357. 367. She needs the attempted rape to take place nearby in order to explain how she got home that night. She just picked herself off from the asphalt of the parking lot and made her way back to the front of the restaurant and her boyfriend was there. She didn’t tell him anything because she was afraid he would do something violent to the district attorney and get himself into big trouble.

    She says she went to bed when she got home (so nobody saw her) and she hid the bruises on her neck from her mother and sister and any other members of her family. She was afraid that if she made any complaint, or her mother or anyone else complained for her, that the powerful district attorney of Etowah County would do something to her or her family. But she quit her job so she would never see him again.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  358. There are other incentives for people to act good, but this is an incentive/excuse to act bad and get away with it. I don’t think that’s helpful for good or bad people.

    DRJ (15874d)

  359. So Kevin, you really expect the clique’s pollster not to your Doug Jones from Hellboy

    Now, who could argue with that?

    (Blazing Saddles)

    Kevin M (752a26)

  360. They went after cosby but left weinstein alone why, you could graph the doublestandard almost exactly.

    What they say: “Speaking truth to power”
    What they mean: “Ganging up on people the cool kids hate”

    Kevin M (752a26)

  361. Smalley a comedy writer, so talented in his wording, had force be his tool of choice.
    She should have bit his tongue off.

    mg (60b0f7)

  362. Kevin, it’s simple. Cosby didn’t have the power to destroy careers; Weinstein did. See how that works?

    Tillman (a95660)

  363. She “fell.” Anyway – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rJmoNlBjEE

    Tillman (a95660)

  364. Furthermore he was telling African American youth they have to straighten up, whereas everyone from Obama on down was encouraging their dysfunction.

    narciso (d1f714)

  365. No, Tillie wouldn’t put you on because, it really did… it happened just this way
    The day his mama socked it to, the Etowah County DA

    Colonel Haiku (993483)

  366. Tillie is ALL about Jello Vanilla Pudding

    Colonel Haiku (993483)

  367. I. The 80d it was mostly about traditional professional families, take the huxtables and the keatons then in the 90s, they went downscale to the bundys and roseanne who had to be celebrated.

    narciso (d1f714)

  368. I must have gotten on Drunku’s nerves. ‘May have even made him think a second, ‘made his head hurt. Don’t worry, your head will stop hurting in a minute after it defaults back to idling again.

    Tillman (a95660)

  369. You are transparent, Tillie. Easy to analyze, much like the motivations of leftists all over the world.

    Colonel Haiku (993483)

  370. Easy, peasy

    Colonel Haiku (993483)

  371. No, just don’t abuse her.

    Absolutely. But we are also being asked to be outraged.

    (“Treat” was the wrong fusebox to use. “View” is better.)

    nk (dbc370)

  372. This was juvenile back in the first Austin powers
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Imperator_Rex3?p=

    narciso (d1f714)

  373. But once seinfeld and friends became ensoncsed as king and prince of Must See TV , it was like screw the families, the birth of a child was seen as a McGinley like moment portending a series’ end. Even in the ostensibly family sitcoms, Raymond never was in an on-camera conversation with one of his offspring. Even now, you need a gimmick like a May-December alongside a Gay couple or some outlandishly weird and wry kids and extended to be programmed amongst the bang-fests that are the sons of Friends.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)


  374. 381.Furthermore he was telling African American youth they have to straighten up, whereas everyone from Obama on down was encouraging their dysfunction.
    narciso (d1f714) — 11/17/2017 @ 9:55 am

    You got tat right. Eight years of the divider in chief. We still haven’t heard a peep from my grandson. He dumped his girl, his friends and his family and took off for DC. Dumped his cell phone and car too. He joined the black under ground of some sort. Hates whites, even his mother and grand parents. The wonderful legacy of Obummer.

    But take a knee and you’re a hero.

    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lO8ZQtsRYUM/WguP8ZOHURI/AAAAAAABRTY/oDoMCDLomfMFOBhTbNtcIidfL-Nk-BuvQCLcBGAs/s640/1_190m_ozdoesA7Iz1w32ncxo1_540.jpg

    Rev.Hoagie® (6bbda7)

  375. Well they allow African Americans and Asians some dispensation, also this is us because its a combo platter, meanwhile you know my gripe with cRtelmanic Latin TV.

    narciso (d1f714)

  376. If you are a constant on this blog, you (as a “Latin” or whatever term is in vogue nowadays) shouldnt be watching that gruel anyway, its for the people that are the polar diametric of what Kevin M. says our immigration policy should be – that stuff is for grandma on the couch or the idiot too unsavory to be at work or tired by work.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  377. I’m usual
    Lay watching something Lear but senora zero El chapo is advertised almost as often as justice league on regular broadcast

    narciso (d1f714)

  378. This how lazy newspaper headlines ate (the entire navy) admits or just the base commander, or squadron leader. I remember back in the day the a team and walker Texas ranger was dinged for being too violent

    narciso (d1f714)

  379. You are transparent, Tillie. Easy to analyze, much like the motivations of leftists all over the world.”

    Cellophane haiku?

    Ben burn (5c54d4)

  380. 391. urbanleftbehind (5eecdb) — 11/17/2017 @ 10:20 am

    , the birth of a child was seen as a McGinley like moment portending a series’ end.

    But that hapened even with “Get Smart.”

    It’s a change in the situation.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  381. 382. Colonel Haiku (993483) — 11/17/2017 @ 9:56 am

    The day his mama socked it to, the Etowah County DA

    What is that a parody of?

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  382. Harper valley pita, 1978, if memory serves

    narciso (d1f714)

  383. I doubt Stuart will be buying a Iowa pheasant hunting license anytime soon.

    mg (60b0f7)

  384. OT, but why, outside of that league having a strict stand-for-the-National Anthem policy as far back as 1996, would you go there for the next commish:

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/report-nfl-owner-approaches-nba-commissioner-about-succeeding-goodell/

    I would think you’d need somewhat of a good ole boy or an old school southern black for the post.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  385. They want someone who soesnt know anything about the sport, he ce condi is out right off. Otoh stern has operated less stupid of late.

    narciso (d1f714)

  386. pudding!

    big pudding fan here

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  387. 405, heyyy, that’s stereotyping – they’ve moved on to the much taller, younger and balder Adam Silver

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  388. Asking us to be outraged? Some will be, some won’t, but I agree with nk that we shouldn’t make policies or rules based on emotion. But, by the same token, we shouldn’t excuse or ignore bad behavior simply because of the choices other people make.

    DRJ (15874d)

  389. Even bad choices.

    DRJ (15874d)

  390. “if we set this precedent in the interest of demonstrating our party’s solidarity with harassed and abused women, we’re only going to drain the swamp of people who, however flawed, still regularly vote to protect women’s rights and freedoms. The legislative branch will remain chockablock with old, white Republican men who regard women chiefly as sex objects and unpaid housekeepers, and we’ll show them how staunchly Democrats oppose their misogynistic attitudes by handing them more power.”

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/gloria-steinem-kate-harding-one-free-grope/

    At least some are honest about the double standard (not to mention the racism) and admit the Clinton treatment is still the rule. Sex objects and unpaid housekeepers…..yep, you bet. We’ll never recognize their humanity like Clinton, Weinstein, Biden, Franken etc.

    harkin (a9a478)

  391. Adam Silver can take the NFL left of left.

    mg (60b0f7)

  392. Ugh. Stevie Nicks says Buckingham acted like a monster. He’s one magnificent guitarist, but I can’t condone all that if it’s true.

    Tillman (a95660)

  393. I still think this is the best fix for the problems from a century of popularly elected senators. How long would the NJ legislature have put up with Bob Menendez’ conduct if there own seats were affected by it?

    crazy (d99a88)

  394. ugh, there their

    crazy (d99a88)

  395. But in Ohiya, or at least the parts that say OhiyO, that might get him elected, they put that goon Kasich in, who would have copped to maybe 5 or 6.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  396. I enjoy watching lawyers banter arguments over this topic in general and the Franken mess as well but to me it’s less a legal issue and more a classic publicity and marketing play by a very savvy woman in the Biz who took advantage of the times we live in to play the right card at the right time.

    Try, if you can, looking at it w/o a political or legal axe to grind but from a marketing/publicity POV. In the space of just 36 hours, LT has gone from relative obscurity to a name, face and voice now seen and heard on every electronic gadget around the planet– and above it; from Putin’s I-phone to the laptops aboard the ISS. That’s $15-$20 million of publicity she could never have bought on her own from a niche at a LA talk radio gig. It was a brilliant play– well timed given the climate of the times we’re going through and if attempted 3, 4 or even 5 years ago would never have been as effective. — On a scale of 1 to 10, she earns a 20.

    In the nuts and bolts of it, it doesn’t excuse Franken’s obnoxious, frat boy behavior in the context of the time it occurred. Problem is, LT sold the grounds to any moral outrage out from under herself years ago by willing appearing naked in porn pubs for money. And it’s not as if this is a past chapter from her life she regrets– it’s an active element of current commerce for her.

    For example, while LT was appearing on CNN alone for a near-half hour ‘interview’– an incredibly valuable piece of free media exposure which will be segmented and replayed in cycles over and over- giving her even more face time, she expressed the desire to make ‘a better world for her children.’ Yet at the same moment, she was selling autographed pornographic images of herself from years ago on her own website. LT has no real moral shame– and that is her choice. But as a media person herself, she does have a stellar sense of marketing, publicity and timing and to that I applaud her. So would Mad Men’s Don Draper, Roger Sterling– and Joan Holloway.

    We have no idea if her contract is nearing renewal but if it is, she has generated enough buzz and name recognition to leverage a hefty increase in compensation at renewal time. And just look at her recent actions. While others doing these ‘harassment confessionals’ attempt to minimize their exposure revealing these ugly details and usually appear w/their lawyers by their side then try to avoid the press and stay away from the cameras, LT is running toward the cameras- trying to hit every outlet while the story is hot.

    It’s a very smart publicity play. Yesterday, the cable newsers, today, ‘The View.’ And expect more to come as the interviews loop. LT is shopping herself; just as on her website, not so much venting her tale but more likely as on camera auditions for a f/t TV gig of a sort. It’s a magnificent marketing and publicity play– and a smart one on her part. All because she had her hooters honked by a jerk, now as U.S. senator, trying to pull off a bad joke for a ‘gag reel’ a decade ago– for which he has called for his own ethic inquiry, issued repeated apologies, including a personal letter, which LT read on television- and she accepted the apology almost immediately. And now she’s taking full career advancement advantage of it. It’s sordid– and it’s brilliant.

    What should alert all of us watching this passing parade in this ugly climate, is how to discern who truly has a valid complaint and who is just being an opportunist as more of these incidents come to light. Leading by example is certainly not something we’re going to see from you-know-who. So it’s going to take work by us, not depending on the spin from red or blue or orange talking heads. It’s tricky stuff, too. I recently finished rereading some material on the blacklisting period in Hollywood. And the similarities beginning to surface are striking; ‘are you now or have you ever been a sex predator’ is echoing across the land. And where does this end? Next week it could be a cashier complaining happyfeet touched her while making change in 1995; or Haiki is accused of oogling a woman because he praised her golf swing in 2003; or a waitress complaining Patterico smiled at her in while serving a Denny’s breakfast in 1998. Where does this end? It’s going to be up to us individually to stand up and say, ‘have you no decency, sir!’ You can’t legislate morality, but basic, good manners is simply a matter of personal responsibility, good taste and treating others as you’d like to be treated.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  397. Sen. Moore
    resigned sen. al franken
    cheers

    mg (60b0f7)

  398. Mike Pence looks brilliant with his stance on being around other women.

    mg (60b0f7)

  399. Mike Pence looks brilliant with his stance on being around other women.

    Not sure if he doesn’t trust his self-control or conniving wimmens.

    Ben burn (5c54d4)

  400. Regarding Mike Pence, Reoublicans in Congress and people in the White House have been having conversations about what to do about the alabama Senate race and Roy Moore. One of those conversations was (several days ago) between Mitch McConnell and Mike Pence. I think McConnell or someone on his staff indicated that only a little bit of that was the Alabama Senate race – most oof it was about the tax bill. This was before the senate bill went through a bit of markup and the House bill passed.

    McConnell is very much against these kinds of things – he’s for upholding the reputation of the Senate. He had a lot to do with the removal of Senator Packwood when he was the Chairman of the Ethics Committee. But he didn’t want public hearings. When Democrats threatened to do that, he said he’d hold hearings on Senator Ted Kennedy,

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/14/us/politics/sex-scandals-mitch-mcconnell.html?_r=0

    Though he wanted Mr. Packwood gone, Mr. McConnell wanted it done his way. When Democrats pushed for public hearings that could embarrass Republicans, Mr. McConnell blocked the effort by threatening retaliatory hearings on various Democrats like Edward M. Kennedy.

    He also later pushed for the removal of Ensign and Larry Craig. Larry Craig agreed to resign but later decided to serve out his term, although he did not run for re-election.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  401. LT really probably did this without expecting too much – it was her joining the #MeToo campaign, I don’t know that she did anything to make her tweet go viral.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  402. Thank you for mentioning Craig, Sammy. Some have conveniently partisan memory.

    Ben burn (5c54d4)

  403. Both Franken and Moore get support from Democrat Ohio Supreme Court justice:

    http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2017/11/sitting_supreme_court_justice.html

    Now that the dogs of war are calling for the head of Senator Al Franken I believe it is time to speak up on behalf of all heterosexual males. As a candidate for Governor let me save my opponents some research time. In the last fifty years I was sexually intimate with approximately 50 very attractive females. It ranged from a gorgeous blonde who was my first true love and we made passionate love in the hayloft of her parents barn and ended with a drop dead gorgeous red head from Cleveland.

    Now can we get back to discussing legalizing marijuana and opening the state hospital network to combat the opioid crisis. I am sooooo disappointed by this national feeding frenzy about sexual indiscretions decades ago.

    Peace.

    https://twitter.com/setharichardson/status/931565210351144962

    Kevin M (752a26)

  404. @425. Act II: now approaching the ‘naming names’ phase; from the era of ‘the blacklist’ to the days of the little ‘black book.’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  405. DO YOU BELIEVE IN LIFE AFTER LOVE???

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  406. It’s not banter, DCSCA. We’re talking about how rules impact conduct. PR isn’t concerned about that, or ethics, which is why Hollywood loves stories like that. But real people need ethics.

    DRJ (15874d)

  407. You love the scene about the strawberries with Humphrey Bogart in The Caine Mutiny. It’s the high point of the movie, but it isn’t the point of the movie. The point of the movie is at the end where the prosecutor talks about loyalty and values, qualities the mutineers lacked in all their focus on the pragmatic issues in the court martial.

    Pragmatism isn’t the answer to a good life, DCSCA. Ethics and values matter more.

    DRJ (15874d)

  408. @428. Of course it’s banter, DRJ. But my concern is the ascension of opportunism over valid complaints as this fever keeps growing. The similarity to the rise of the blacklisting era is striking– at least to me; the ‘are you now or have you ever been a sex predator =bang-bang= answer the question’ climate. There’s no end to where you go with this. Next will come ‘naming names’ and so on. And until the fever breaks, inevitably it’s going to cause a lot of unintended collateral damage to many as the few are sweated out and brought down. And in the end, the only winner in this will be Putin.. and he’ll simply smile.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  409. @429. The point of the story was the wrong man was on trial, DRJ, but that didn’t stop the prosecutor from putting his ethics aside, taking the case and torpedoing a sick man anyway. The pragmatism demonstrated was saving the ship and getting a sick man in charge of it, off it.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  410. @ nk,

    There’s a little more to it than that, I think. There is no doubt in anybody’s mind that Franken is the kind of person who would do that kind of thing. A question of character. Of which he has none, and only a people whose state bird is the loon would elect him to the Senate or any other position of trust.

    Moore, on the other hand, despite being a lawyer, has enjoyed the reputation that he is not the kind of person who would do the things he is accused of. If anything, he has been faulted for being over-moral. He was appointed and then elected Circuit Judge; and he was elected Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court twice. Judges and Chief Justices are held to a very high standard by the people who vote for them. It is easy to believe, and I do, that these accusations are a sucker punch that he had no reason to expect.

    nk (dbc370) — 11/16/2017 @ 10:33 am

    So if it is the character, reputation and profession of a man accused of sexual misconduct that determines the believeability of the accusers and whether or not he did what they accuse him of doing, then by the same token, it must be equally true that any man who is accused of sexual misconduct and has a poor reputation (perhaps one as a womanizing playboy) and is in a profession where an upstanding reputation is superfluous, then such a man is surely guilty for having done the things of which he was accused of doing (e.g. Donald Trump).

    Dana (023079)

  411. No the nature of the evidence, and in this car it’s a threadbare tissue of lies, which even Alred won’t totally confirm.

    narciso (d1f714)

  412. It’s part of the grist, not the whole loaf.

    nk (dbc370)

  413. @432 (Dana, citing nk) only a people whose state bird is the loon would elect [Franken] to the Senate or any other position of trust

    Dana. This is seriously the level of intellect you’re intending to engage with. Forget the question of his intellectual honesty in argument (but, badabing kudos to you for trying, and for your concluding para.), but nk simply doesn’t have the “raw material upstairs” to merit attention, or for him to even be able to find the playing field (much less to compete there).

    Q! (86710c)

  414. Ventura FrAnken Ellison ( you can add governor target, for the block) clearly enemy action.

    narciso (d1f714)

  415. No, DCSCA 431, that was not the point. You missed it completely.

    DRJ (0280d9)

  416. I had already intimated that, about both Clinton and Trump, in a previous thread:

    Anybody here ever been sucker punched? I was, when I was sixteen. That’s what happened here. Moore never saw it coming and that’s why he looks like he’s fumbling in his defenses. Because he had no reason to expect it, he was not prepared for it. A real sleaze, like a Bill Clinton or a Donald Trump, would have had his defenses prepared for years in case the dirt he did ever came to light.

    nk (dbc370) — 11/16/2017 @ 6:29 am

    nk (dbc370)

  417. Harper valley pita, 1978, if memory serves
    narciso (d1f714) — 11/17/2017 @ 11:01 am

    You got it. In narciso-speak anyway. I bet Harper Valley Pita is pretty good. I don’t know how long it’s been since I ate actual bread.

    Pinandpuller (a3a77c)

  418. Maybe so, nk, but I think this could also happen when the accused is elected in a one-party state. There isn’t as much scrutiny — the initial requirement is that you be a hard-working, faithful party member; after that, you just have to act normal (which Moore did later in his career). Politicians from one-party states aren’t prepared for sudden scrutiny after years of unquestioning acceptance. Ask Rick Perry.

    DRJ (0280d9)

  419. Trump has been accused of many things like in the fractious divorce by , but as with Jack Ryan’s dustup with Jeri there really was no evidence.

    narciso (d1f714)

  420. When did he not act normal, drj, If any thing he was an insufferable self righteous martinet as even Lucian truscott wil admit, I referenced some fictional examples, from literature as well as film. I think neidermeyer from animal house fits.

    narciso (d1f714)

  421. I accept that, DRJ. It can also be complacency, thinking he had left his past behind him.

    nk (dbc370)

  422. Now,Doug Jones actually put the wrong man in prison, Richard Newell allowing the culprit of the Olympics bombing to escape capture for severAl years you want to talk ethics

    narciso (d1f714)

  423. @371 nk

    But how is it societally beneficial to treat a bad girl like a good girl? What incentive would there be, then, for good girls to be good girls?
    nk (dbc370) — 11/17/2017 @ 9:34 am

    I make the good girls go bad Cobra Starship

    Pinandpuller (a3a77c)

  424. @-437. Actually, you have, DRJ. The character himself says it:

    Greenwald: “I’ve got a guilty conscience. I thought the wrong man was on trial, so I torpedoed Queeg for you. I had to torpedo him. And I feel sick about it.”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  425. @429. Ethics and values matter more.

    That’s quaint and we’d like to believe that, but keep in mind among the most popular television programs with Americans the past decade or so included one about a chemistry teacher ‘breaking bad,’ becoming a meth dealer kingpin; a spinoff about his valueless, ethics challenged lawyer, a program set in an era when ‘America was great” about corporate American ‘Mad Men’ selling anything and everything- including their souls- for material and financial gain while treating their women like dirt. And a show about a world full of zombies. Pretty much says it all.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  426. Here’s another helpful hint. You can’t be “Morally Bankrupt” with honest people.

    Thud Muffle (17ac6b)

  427. It says it all about what Hollywood is selling. It doesn’t say what Americans want to buy.

    DRJ (15874d)

  428. Break down why he said each sentence.

    DRJ (15874d)

  429. Meanwhile, new book by UK Guardian reporter’s book reports new details about the Steele dossierlinks to Manafort, Page, FISA request, Clinton campaign and McCain. A little something for everyone.
    crazy (d99a88) — 11/17/2017 @ 8:20 am

    The dossier is 70-90% true. It’s that good. Roy Moore signed the dust jacket. Merry Christmas.

    Pinandpuller (a3a77c)

  430. Greenwald: “I’ve got a guilty conscience. I thought the wrong man was on trial, so I torpedoed Queeg for you. I had to torpedo him. And I feel sick about it.”

    Greenwald feels bad because he had to put Queeq on trial, but Keefer was the one to blame. He’s talking about moral blame. He confirms that in the next sentences when he shows, and they agree, that the bad things would not have happened if they had been loyal officers when Queeq needed them. Their failures were moral failures. Do you think the rest of that scene was filler? It was the point if the scene and the show. Your excerpt was the introduction, the hook, not the point.

    DRJ (15874d)

  431. Railroad Cancer

    That sounds bad

    Pinandpuller (a3a77c)

  432. I was just reminded, in the Gillibrand thread, that Clinton’s perjury charge arose in the Paula Jones case from questions about his sex life, and he lied about Lewinsky. It is a federal rule of evidence, that Clinton had signed into law, that a person sued for sexual harassment can be questioned about his other sexual conduct. So, yes, as a matter of law, whether somebody is a skirt chaser can be used to support a charge of sexual harassment in the specific instance.

    nk (dbc370)

  433. Those poor, poor mothers who might have to explain to their children what male genitalia are.
    nk (dbc370) — 11/17/2017 @ 8:08 am

    That’s what we supposedly underpay teachers for.

    Pinandpuller (a3a77c)

  434. @447. That is thought-provoking. The days of The Waltons and Little House on the Prairie are long gone. But don’t blame Hollywood for it: most people now would just shake their heads and laugh at any new series like either of those. But those shows actually instilled and reinforced values.

    Tillman (a95660)

  435. I typed out an answer to your 322 but it would not be appropriate to post it and it would lose its impact were I to bowdlerize it. But it relates to my comments above, about the culture war and about giving equal dignity to Heidi Fleiss and Mother Teresa.
    nk (dbc370) — 11/17/2017 @ 7:00 am

    You reminded me of a Father Guido Sarducci bit.

    Some Saints have 60 or 70 miracles. So and so only has four, and I understand that three of them are card tricks.

    Pinandpuller (a3a77c)

  436. Pinandpuller @289. Ari does mean lion – and there are names that mean bear (Dov), dog (Calev – rare) dove or pigeon (Yonah) and wolf (Ze’ev)and also for girls, bee (Devorah – in English Deborah)

    The meaning has been lost to most people.
    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2) — 11/17/2017 @ 2:26 am

    Thanks. I knew Cale[b] means dog. I think a lot of Christians do. There is another comic named Dov Davidov. Interesting.

    Pinandpuller (a3a77c)

  437. @449.Bless your heart, you have it so totally backwards.

    @453. Understand you want to find something beyond what the character actually says. Read the book; it’s more complex, and better, anyway. Or take it up w/chatroomers or who chew over Wouk and Kramer.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  438. @457. Yep. They don’t invest millions producing several seasons/years of a ‘product’ “hoping” Americans will “buy it” year after year. Don’t find an audience fast these days and you’re whacked; AMC cancelled Feed the Beast and Low Winter Sun PDQ.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  439. Khaybar Khaybar, ya yahud, Jaish Muhammad, sa yahud,

    And…

    We and the Buddhists of Myanmar are just supposed to forget about.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  440. Because a) was too depressing b) not compelling characters

    narciso (8d9016)

  441. It wasn’t directed at us, true, but we could see what direction the Islamic genocide was taking.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  442. narciso, Stockholm syndrome is so much more comforting.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  443. R.I.P. Malcolm Young, co-founder, rhythm guitarist and — according to brother Angus — the one who wrote all of those great riffs for AC/DC

    Icy (b8832b)

  444. The Caine Mutiny is a movie about loyalty and leadership. The final scene is where Greenwald reminds the officers of their failings when they refused Queeg after he asked for help. Let’s look at the entire final substantive scene, not just one or two sentences:

    Greenwald: I’ve got a guilty conscience. I thought the wrong man was on trial, so I torpedoed Queeg for you. I had to torpedo him. And I feel sick about it.

    Maryk: Take it easy.

    Greenwald: When I was studying law, and Mr Keefer was writing his stories, – – and Willie was tearing up the playing fields of Princeton, – – who was standing guard over this country of ours? Not us. we knew you couldn’t make any money in the service. Who did the dirty work for us? Queeg did, and a lot of other guys. Tough guys who didn’t crack up like Queeg. Queeg endangered the lives of the men. He didn’t endanger any lives. You did. A fine bunch of officers.

    Officer: You said yourself he cracked.

    Greenwald: That’s a very pretty point. I left out one detail in court. It wouldn’t have helped our case. At one point, Queeg came to you for help, and you turned him down.

    Maryk: Yes, we did.

    Greenwald: He wasn’t worthy of your Ioyalty. So you turned on him. You made up songs about him. If you’d been Ioyal to Queeg, do you think all this would have come up? I’m asking you, Steve. would it have been necessary to take over?

    Maryk: It probably wouldn’t have been necessary.

    Officer: If that’s true, we were guilty.

    Greenwald: You’re learning. You don’t work with the captain because of his hairstyle, – – but because he’s got the job, or you’re no good. The case is over. You’re all safe. It was like shooting fish in a barrel.

    Now we come to the man who should have stood trial. The Shakespeare whose testimony nearly sunk us all. – Tell them, Keefer.

    Keefer: You’re telling it better.

    Greenwald: You should read his testimony. He never even heard of Queeg.

    Maryk: Let’s forget it.

    Greenwald: Queeg was sick. But you’re real healthy. You didn’t have one tenth the guts he had.

    Keefer: Except I never fooled myself.

    Greenwald: I want to drink a toast to you. You always hated the Navy. Then you thought up this idea. You managed to keep your skirts nice and clean even in the court martial. Maryk will be remembered as a mutineer … You’ll publish your novel, make a million bucks, marry a movie star, – – and live with your conscience. If you have any. Here’s to the real author of “The Caine Mutiny”. Here’s to you. (Greenwald splashes a glas of champagne on Keefer’s face.) I’ll be outside. I’m drunker than you are, so it’ll be a fair fight.

    To me, that confirms this Queeg quote from earlier in the show is the moral issue:

    “As I always say, a command is a lonely job. It isn’t easy to make decisions. Sometimes the captain of a ship needs help. And by help, I mean constructive loyalty. What I’m trying to say is, uh, a ship is like a family. We all have our ideas of right and wrong but we have to pitch in for the good of the family. If there was only some way we could help each other.”

    Greenwald told the officers they were disloyal to their Captain because they weren’t there when Queeg needed them and asked for help. They agreed. The movie seems to be a story about Queeg’s failings but the ending shows the real point waswhen the officers realized it was their moral failing, not Queeg’s, that mattered. The above quote foreshadowed that ending.

    It is a morality tale for adults who realize that popular decisions aren’t necessarily the right decisions. Young people love modern culture and the latest fads, but life brings experience that makes most of us realize popular is not the same as right and morality does matter.

    DRJ (15874d)

  445. Greenwald: When I was studying law, and Mr Keefer was writing his stories, and Willie was tearing up the playing fields of Princeton, who was standing guard over this country of ours? Not us. we knew you couldn’t make any money in the service. Who did the dirty work for us? Queeg did, and a lot of other guys. Tough guys who didn’t crack up like Queeg.

    Maryk: Queeg endangered the lives of the men.

    Greenwald: He didn’t endanger any lives. You did. A fine bunch of officers.

    DRJ (15874d)

  446. 458,59. LOL!

    Ben burn (03656a)

  447. Look at last night’s box office. There is a market for old-fashioned themes with pictures like Wonder, The Star and others? Hollywood will make those stories if they make them money, and they are.

    DRJ (15874d)

  448. yes yes just like if we show there’s a market for sports coverage ESPN will surely fill it

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  449. Holy roller thread

    Ben burn (03656a)

  450. DRJ, at 467 and 468. Exactly. 100%.

    nk (dbc370)

  451. God matters.

    DRJ (15874d)

  452. DRJ @470. Two words: Star Wars.

    nk (dbc370)

  453. !

    DRJ (15874d)

  454. The book is a morality story, too. It’s what Wouk intended and he succeeded.

    DRJ (15874d)

  455. Bummer news, icy. These guys were so simple, so basic, but had such elemental rockin’ riffs…

    Here’s my fave… http://youtu.be/Ps03neLaXsE

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  456. @DRJ

    A Police officer, an Imam, and a Catholic priest walk in to a bar/

    The Tarbender look up and says, “Is this a joke?” Yes, it’s a joke.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  457. Excellent choice, Colonel. Here’s mine . . .
    https://youtu.be/ErXbMB9R5-0

    Icy (b8832b)

  458. @467. Apparently this Pulitzer Prize winning work of fiction, upon which the film was based, is important to you. But scholars seen to trend toward the consensus that it’s actually about maturation, awakenings and antisemitism.

    http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/cainemutiny/themes.html

    http://www.novelguide.com/the-caine-mutiny/metaphor-analysis

    ‘Being Awakened from Sleep— Following the bombing of Pearl Harbor, Japanese Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto commented: “I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve.” In large part The Caine Mutiny is about individuals being awakened from sleep. Numerous times throughout the novel, Willie is forcibly shaken from his sleep; he is often confused and needs some time to regain his bearings. His experience in the military and aboard the Caine does awaken him in important ways. While he enters the service as a self-centered and rather bumbling young man, he concludes his experience with a much different view of life and the military.’

    Other characters undergo an awakening too. Barney Greenwald’s stirring speech at Keefer’s victory dinner suggests that he too has had an awakening. By extension, the novel implies that the theme of awakening also applies to America in general, which was forcibly awakened from isolationism by the bombing of Pearl Harbor.

    ‘Barney Greenwald:  Barney Greenwald is the lawyer who defends Maryk during the court-martial. In civilian life he was a talented lawyer, but he put his career on hold to become a fighter pilot. He is badly burned when the plane crashes. He is Jewish and is conscious of the fact that many in the Navy discriminate against Jews. Though reluctant to defend Maryk, he wins an acquittal. Later he is ashamed at having ruined Queeg’s character during the trial. He accuses Keefer of being the true guilty party in the mutiny.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  459. Morality is important to me, as it was to Wouk.

    DRJ (15874d)

  460. Literary intellectuals like to criticize Wouk for his moral, not literary, messages —
    especially the “unexpected switch.”

    DRJ (15874d)

  461. He was Wouk before it was kewl.

    Tried to autocorrect “keel” lol.

    Pinandpuller (3b3196)

  462. Wouk has been criticized for being too big a fan of conventional morality. He believed in Western values and morals.

    DRJ (15874d)

  463. @470. Awayyyyy back in the day, DRJ, I’d sit in marketing meetings and pitch the argument that given the success of CNN and then new cable outlets like the History Channel, the CBS News archives were loaded existing events programming and news footage just waiting to be tapped and repackaged as fresh product to market– because there was an audience for it. But execs further up the food chain had data showing that audience was a niche market and just not big enough compared to other entertainment programming venues to justify the investment of financial resources and time. So it would always be tabled because the base costs and collateral expenses to reach that audience did not out weight the ROI in a quarterly driven corporation. The execs insisted a bigger and faster return could be had by producing programming product with a larger audience and a much higher ROI. In the end, Paley saw a better return by using the bulk of the archives as a tax write off to create the core base of the Museum of Broadcasting.

    You’re pitching for product for a niche market. The money makers these days– and for the past 15 or 20 years– have been comic book movies as the target audience for movies continues to drop into the low teens. And that’s not going to change until the market changes– or they run out of superheroes.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  464. Morality is important to me. The Caine Mutiny and other movies are important to you, DCSCA, because you post quotes to make/prove your points. I decided this was a good time to suggest that your drive-by quotes aren’t always as on-point as you think.

    DRJ (15874d)

  465. Wasn’t Fox News considered as appealing to a niche market that competitors would squish like a bug?”

    DRJ (15874d)

  466. They should have listened to you at that meeting, DCSCA.

    DRJ (15874d)

  467. “The Gazebo” Debbie Reynolds, Glen Ford
    murder, mystery, comedy
    classic in my mind

    mg (60b0f7)

  468. @487. IYO. But if don’t want to believe our Captain is disturbed, fine by me. OTOH…

    “Will you look at the man? He’s a Freudian delight; he crawls with clues!” – Lt. Tom Keefer [Fred MacMurray] ‘The Caine Mutiny’ 1954

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  469. Unlimited technological advances in my lifetime have benefited many.
    Movie makers and t.v. sit coms are killing the entertainment business with their bias lefty b.s. And darn near every commercial being made with a p.c.color coded sales pitch. Tim Allen had a great show that was just cancelled, on a friday night it was the number 2 show.
    Oh how I despise Hollywood.

    mg (60b0f7)

  470. @489. They were quarterly driven minds, DRJ– the ROI had to be faster and bigger.

    OTOH when in w/marketing at Panasonic in the early 80s, the Japanese had a much different approach. Worked on the introduction of Panasonic batteries into three test markets across the U.S. Parent company Matsushita was willing to accept losses for three years by offering product at or below cost to retailers simply to gain market share over Eveready which was a quarterly driven. So the Panasonic batteries were sold to consumers much cheaper.

    And it worked. They got the market share and establish retail space in stores. Most U.S. firms would have to try to sell that kind of strategy to stockholders at quarterly driven firms and that would be a difficult if not impossible sell.

    As an aside, the biggest hang-up w/t Panasonic/Matsushita batteries ad the aftermarket batteries they produced (like for Radio Shack) was the date stamp on the bottom of them. Their batteries are stamped w/t manufacture date while Eveready batteries were marked w/expiration dates.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  471. Re- comment 493. Oops!!!

    DRJ & Patterico! I bet a segment of the Japanese name in my comment caused it to go into moderation. Let me try again:

    @489. They were quarterly driven minds, DRJ– the ROI had to be faster and bigger.

    OTOH when in w/marketing at Panasonic in the early 80s, the Japanese had a much different approach. Worked on the introduction of Panasonic batteries into three test markets across the U.S. Parent company Matsush-ta was willing to accept losses for three years by offering product at or below cost to retailers simply to gain market share over Eveready which was a quarterly driven. So the Panasonic batteries were sold to consumers much cheaper.

    And it worked. They got the market share and establish retail space in stores. Most U.S. firms would have to try to sell that kind of strategy to stockholders at quarterly driven firms and that would be a difficult if not impossible sell.

    As an aside, the biggest hang-up w/t Panasonic/Matsush-ta batteries ad the aftermarket batteries they produced (like for Radio Shack) was the date stamp on the bottom of them. Their batteries are stamped w/t manufacture date while Eveready batteries were marked w/expiration dates.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  472. @489. DRJ, Posrscript. I’ll admit ho having a bit of a personal motive. Wanted to dig into the video archives for some of the early space mission coverage along w/t marketing proposal. Not to bore you w/t nuts and bolts of it, but we did a quick survey of the archives back then and they were a disorganized mess; a lot of stuff was poorly labelled and an expense to maintain– especially the videotape– the stuff doesn’t age well unless it’s kept in climate controlled areas. And much of the older material only played on those big Ampex r2r videotape machines, which were prone to breakdown and spare parts were next to impossible to find. At the time only two were known to still be workable in the world. They’d transferred as much as possible when needed for newscasts over time to carts but a lot of stuff was on kinescope film as it was used for West Coast broadcasting. But the msn-hours involved and resources needed were a strike against getting at that niche market– so Paley saw quicker ‘ROI’ w/that tax write off donsating it to start the Museum of Broadcasting in NYC.

    The funniest part was the first elements were transferred for public access — on Sony’s Beta format which had a slightly better quality than VHS but was soon obsolete, because Matsush-ta’s VHS format was aftermarketed; the format was licensed to other manufacturers worldwide while Sony balked at doing it. That’s how VHS beat Beta.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  473. morality in the hands of a republican is the rankest of poisons

    brutish and heavy-handed, they’ve no skill for the craft of it

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  474. @497. Unless there’s a profit angle in it, Mr. Feet.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  475. @488. Well, remember back in the day Murdoch had already successfully test-marketed and launched the format in the UK. If memory serves, in the U.S. the format was test-marketed locally during the 1996 Republican convention in San Diego as GOP-TV and piped out and it was well rec’d so they launched nationally on cable. The network itself was a more complicated matter beyond Murdoch’s getting his U.S. citizenship; they simply had sign enough stations to make it viable but it worked out. Fox owned a lot of archived programming as well -like its newsreels and films- to tap and what had not been licensed out they could use then as licensing contracts expired they’d simply not renew and held on to the programming. And they invested a lot in original programming- Tracey Ullman Show gave birth to The Simpsons and of course, Married With Children was a big hit so they were off and running. And they ‘bought’ talent from other networks. Hume came from ABC and so on… They did a great job establishing a broadcast footprint fairly fast branded w/their own identity.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  476. That’s a great story, DCSCA. I still have some BetaMax tapes. It was a good system but a bad decision by Sony.

    As for Queeg, he did have problems as Greenwald and you say, but he was functioning and probably could have continued to function with the support of a loyal crew. I think Greenwald’s and Wouk’s point is that we need to operate based on values as well as science. Keefer is the secular, scientific, anti-morality voice who wants the world to function pragmatically without messy humans spoiling things, but the world doesn’t work that way.

    DRJ (15874d)

  477. BETA was a superior design but VHS purveyors captured the market Drj.

    Ben burn (03656a)

  478. That’s true but I still think BetaMax had better quality. JVC did a better job marketing VHS to the rental market, and Sony didn’t.

    DRJ (15874d)

  479. Dana @432. Al Franken has a reputation of being cruel (in his book titles for instance) and this kind of thing matches what Al Franken did (not really a sexual predator, just cruel) Cruel jokes. I fully believe all those people who say he didn’t act non-respectful in any way while he was in the Senate.

    Most of the accusations against Donald Trump that came out in the campaign don’t match what his reputation was, and it was orchestrated too. The one thing that might be true was his going after the woman in the married couple that wanted to make a deal regarding renting his casino. He supposedly asked if they were together than told her boyfriend – I think they weren’t yet married – that he was going to go after her anyway. When she broke up with her husband he really went after her, and she decided to give him a try, but she broke up with his she says when he wanted her to do breast enhancement. Then he went on to Melania Knauss.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  480. @502- Oh my yes, Beta has better quality for sure. Spent hours w/some engineers at Panasonic talking about that. It was so funny; every time Sony would release a new product, these fellas would buy one, cart it down to the lab and disassemble it down to the individual components looking for secrets. Kept my Beta tapes and have two Betamax machines in working order and now in storage. The machines are collectable these days to videophiles and if you have one that isn’t the parts are valuable to them just the same.

    Yes, the rental system was the breaking point.

    The distributors offered rental outlets a buyback program for the Betas that had purchased as rentals and that was the final blow. The next big blow was shifting the price point for direct consumer purchase and that involved tagging the tapes w/ads– if memory serves the first big one was Pepsi tagged to Top Gun.

    And you likely know the old Apple Macintosh and Mac SE computers are in the same league w/t Betamax. If you find one or still have one and crack the case open at the seams you’ll find the raised signatures of all the Apple team who developed it– including Steve Jobs, molded into the contour of the inner housing. And some of the models supposedly have actual signatures written in them so that’s the geek treasure hunt of sorts. Back in the early 90s when Apple was faltering on the rise, close to going out of business you could find those olds Macs for about $5 or $10 at garage sales and thrift stores– and half a decade earlier they were retailing for $1500. If memory serves a fella was selling kits to turn them into aquariums, too. I kept two in the garage and my nephew tells me they’re quite sought after by the nerdier geeks in his age group as collector items.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  481. You know, DRJ, you do have a lot more power than you realize when it comes to what reaches the market from Hollywood. And they know it, too. I’m not advocating boycotts as I tend to agree w/Patterico about them but the money people run the ‘show’ and the ‘biz’ in showbiz and are quite sensitive to the wants and whims of the market.

    It’s a product produced where you as a consumer are asked to pay for it in advance before you see it and wholly depend on word of mouth or how it is marketed to decide if you want to spend your $15 on it. So they pump hundreds of thousands of dollars into market and audience research. Same goes w/TV. If you don’t go to the film genre or watch a certain TV format, they’ll stop making it. It’s a gamble enough as it is and there’s too many resources at stake.

    So please, stop going to any comic book movies!! I so just want them to go away! 😉 But they won’t– as long as they make $$ and Comicons are economic draws in cities across the country.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  482. Well justice league is sinking the dc franchise. Marvel may endure as long as it doesn’t succumb to the sjw commissars as it has in the comics.

    narciso (d1f714)

  483. @506. It’s just awful, narciso– we keep waiting for this trend to just end, the audience outgrows it or they run out of superheroes. They’re already on to remakes– but as long as the audience keeps going and lucrative Comicons keep mushrooming up, they’ll keep chasing the $. Westerns finally bit the dust for a time after a long gallop– this genre is overdue to get vanquished as well.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  484. even as we speak thor’s transitioning to titty-thor

    this is ragnarok

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  485. That’s because they haven’t the right touch, there was a booklet for TV shows back in those 70sand some films. Like superman which have joy and wit, like star wars had originally instead of the grime of midnight cowboy and taxi driver, yes that was enjoyable.

    narciso (d1f714)

  486. That just criminal stupidity that begs to be crushed by a frost giant. The last guardian was ok, but a little too much color.

    narciso (d1f714)

  487. Moore never saw it coming and that’s why he looks like he’s fumbling in his defenses. Because he had no reason to expect it, he was not prepared for it. A real sleaze, like a Bill Clinton or a Donald Trump, would have had his defenses prepared for years in case the dirt he did ever came to light.

    nk (dbc370) — 11/16/2017 @ 6:29 am

    I think this is an important point. One caveat: A person could be guilty, but not have any defense prepared, although if he’s been guilty of a lot of things and lasted along time the odds go down.

    Roy Moore, (or his wife) when it came to Beverly Young Moore, was putting out things that were very very faulty, like that the restaurant had only been opened in 2001. This shows complete lack of preparation.

    He actually had some good defenses, although they are particular to the accusation that was actually made. Lies that someone is going o tell can’t readily be anticipated.

    1. He was NEVER the District Attorney of Etowah County.

    2. If he lied to BYN, and/or others about that, she would surely have discovered it was a lie in the intervening 39 1.2 years, especially since she says she discussed Roy Young numerous times with her sister.

    3. There is something peculiar about Etowah County being misspelled twice in two different ways once as Elowah County and the other time as Etiwah County, with no other spelling mistakes present, in the New York Times’ version of Beverly Young Nelson’s statement. I suspect that came directly from Gloria Allred’s office. I will see if I can get the attention of the New York Times because I asked of that was their mistake, or Gloria Allred’s. I don’t that;s amistake at all

    4. Why would he, knowing that the boyfriend usually arrived, not drive far away, but merely drive into the parking lot before attempting to rape her..surely if he expected her to consent, he would immediately desist at the first sign of resistance, not lock the car door.

    5. Why does she call it “my car door.” It wasn’t her car, and it is not necessary to say her door was on her side of the car.

    6. Why this long elaborate explanation of why she didn’t call her boyfriend, which only makes sense if she didn’t have a cellphone but he did * . But nobody did then, at the beginning of 1978.. That was even before pagers and beepers, and in the 1980s only doctors and drug dealers had beepers. (the drug dealers would then to to a pay phone and call)

    7. Also, whose yearbook was that, and was that part all signed at the same time? Can we see color pictures, and can someone see the yearbook itself? It was a yearbook from the previous school year, out June 1977, from the high school she previously attended, (she says she finally got one in November) which, by the way, Roy Moore’s future wife, Kayla Kisor, also attended probably in the same grade.

    8. Also, this story doesn’t go together with the New Yorker story about him being banned from a mall, because if he was only known there as a lawyer, and meekly submitted to the ban, too, how does get the courage to attempt a rape?

    —-
    * How else could she hope to reach him after she got home? He would likely have already left home. But since her boyfriend did not have a cellphone, planning to call him later she got home makes no sense. Unless he was very late, or she was leaving early, that makes no sense. She wouldn’t revent him from making an unnecessary trip, and possibly worrying about her. You can supply alot of possible answers, but she leaves that as if it makes sense the way it is.

    With regard the 14-year old, Leigh Corfman, who will be on the TODAY show tomorrow, the all- important question is how did she come to the attention of the Washington Post if she didn’t contact them? Does the story of how they came to know about her add up. I suspect a long chain of improbable coincidences since Leigh Corfman supposedly told barely anyone. The truth or falsity of that can be looked into.

    Another thing to investigate is if she didn’t tell people she should have been expected to, like a therapist if she had one.

    Of course, if the fact that her mother was in court the same day as Roy Moore, and Roy Moore ws not otherwise occupied during that interval of time.

    Also, more detail is needed about how Roy Moore managed to call her at least three times without her mother knowing about it, since she didn’t have, nor was she likely to have had, her own phone number. Yes, there are explanations, but I’d like to hear them. Why would he even ask for her phone number, like she was a college co-ed or no longer living at home with her mother? Did he know all about when her mother worked?

    There may be a problem as to where he took her because it was supposedly to his house in the woods and that may not be a good description of any place he owned.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  488. I’ve been puzzling over why Fred MacMurray was cast as Keefer but it finally dawned on me: With a few notable exceptions, MacMurray almost always played the good guy and fans had a hard time seeing him as anything but a good guy. It was imperative for everyone to like and trust the character of Keefer throughout the film, and casting McMurray made that more likely. In addition, it added even more drama to the “unexpected switch” in the final scene.

    Some of these old movies were really well thought out.

    DRJ (15874d)

  489. Well he was also in double indemnity, a names Cain novella adapted by Chandler for
    Billy wilder.

    narciso (4fcd5d)

  490. Some of his best work came when he was cast against type but his fans were so unhappy that he reportedly told his wife he was “done playing bad guys.”

    PS to DCSCA: “In an interesting sidebar, artist C.C. Beck used MacMurray as the initial model for a superhero character who would become Fawcett Comics’ Captain Marvel in 1939.”

    DRJ (15874d)

  491. PPS to DCSCA: That’s an example of how one fan really can make a difference.

    DRJ (15874d)

  492. The first link for narciso, not the second.

    DRJ (15874d)

  493. The spelling “error” in the name of the Alabama county comes from Gloria Allred, because it is also in a New York Post story:

    (November 13, 2017 | 3:26pm)

    https://nypost.com/2017/11/13/new-roy-moore-accuser-alleges-he-sexually-assaulted-her-when-she-was-16/

    When he finally gave up, Moore allegedly told her: “You are a child. I am the district attorney of Etiwah County. If you tell anyone about this, no one will believe you.”

    Also in CBS Philly:

    http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2017/11/13/fifth-woman-roy-moore-allegations/ (November 13, 2017 5:51 PM)

    “He then looked at me and he told me, he said, ‘You’re just a child and I am the district attorney of Etiwah County and if you ever tell anyone about this, no one will believe you,’” she said.

    The New York Times published this on November 13, and introduced it as:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/13/us/politics/text-beverly-young-nelson-statement.html

    The following is the text of a statement released on Monday by Beverly Young Nelson, accusing Roy S. Moore, the Republican Senate candidate in Alabama, of a sexual assault when she was a teenage r.

    Sammy Finkelman (f07364)

  494. So the incorrrect spelling came from Gloria Allred. I am not sure what she was trying to do with that.

    Perhaps the idea is that, if later, someone litigating this with Gloria allred discovers that Roy Moore was NOT </b? in fact the District Attorney of Etowah County, and they remember that Beverly Young Nelson claimed that he was, and they do a text search for this statement, they will not be able to find proof that she ever said it by a computer search.

    Because they’ll be searching for “district attorney of Etowah County” and it won’t be there. And if they see it is “Etiwah” they won;t find the other mention of the county name, because it is misseplled “Elowah” there.

    Mr. Moore was an adult. He was much older than I was. I knew that he was the District attorney in Elowah County.

    In saying this, Beverly Young Nelson is asserting, in 2017, that Roy S. Moore was in fact the distrcict attorney of Etowah County. But she shouldn’t have thought so.

    It’s not I thought he was the district attorney – or he told me and others he was the district attorney and signed his name that way in my yearbook but she is asserting it as a fact, that withstood any fact checking by Gloria Allred.

    Sammy Finkelman (f07364)

  495. @514. DRJ- Yes, that’s a famous anecdote about FM. He was really popular back in the day. Most of us as kids only remember him from his TV and Disney work and discovered his earlier work later on– Dive Bomber.. The Egg End I… and Double Indemnity still sizzles. In that era, unless a studio assigned a contract player a role, going against type was a gift- and a challenge for actors– watch Double Indemnity; he’s superb in it. Those older films were on the whole fairly good because the screenplays were adapted chiefly from successful novels and plays– not comic books! LOL.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  496. Dramas and action films, are nit the same disco. Yes there will be plenty of annui inducing films in the fall, there is a traipse down self regard with Meryl and Redford. The felt film, which was nowhere near based on max Holland’s groundbreaking work dussapeared with a thud.

    narciso (d1f714)

  497. @520. What’s your point? Nobody is denying or excusing his actions, just her motivate and timing.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  498. It was more to support your and nk’s observations on character, admittedly 3+ days late.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  499. Nobody is denying…

    Wae’ll see about that, won’t we?
    a
    The good news is, I am scheduled on the 25th to take an Adult First Aid/CPR/AED class with the Red Cross in McKinney. And, and, I’m not paying for this as it’s considered a rescheduling.

    Well, OK, I already paid for it.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  500. The “a” was an artifact.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  501. @523. Got it. Understood.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  502. 424. Ben burn (5c54d4) — 11/17/2017 @ 1:18 pm

    Thank you for mentioning Craig, Sammy. Some have conveniently partisan memory.

    All three Senators Mitch McConnell had a part in getting rid of were Republicans. H didn’t care or didn’t feel it was his perogative to do anything about bad Democrats.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)


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