Patterico's Pontifications

11/13/2017

New Allegations Against Roy Moore

Filed under: General — Dana @ 1:07 pm

[guest post by Dana]

Beverly Young Nelson claims that when she was a teenager, Roy Moore sexually assaulted her. In a news conference with Gloria Allred, who stated that Nelson reached out to her, Moore’s latest accuser described her encounter with Moore:

Nelson describes her first encounters when she was 15 years old working as a waitress at a local restaurant after school.

She said Moore, DA of Etowah County, was a regular customer where he would often pull the ends of her hair as she passed by and complimented the young girl’s looks.

“I did nothing to encourage this behavior,” said Nelson, adding “I did not respond to any of Mr. Moore’s flirtatious behavior.”

She said that at the time of the encounters she had a boyfriend and was “not intersted in having a dating or sexual relationship with a man twice my age.”

Nelson went on, describing another incident in which Moore signed a school yearbook of hers when she was 16.

“He wrote in my yearbook as follows: ‘To a sweeter more beautiful girl, I could not say merry christmas, Christmas, 1977, Love Roy Moore, old hickory house. Roy Moore, DA.'”

She said after the incident, Moore had offered to drive Nelson home after work, during which she alleges he forced himself on Nelson and groped her in a locked car.

“I trusted Mr. Moore because he was district attorney, I thought he was doing something nice to offer to drive me home,” said Nelson.

She detailed her fighting off Moore in the car as he squeezed her neck, forcing her head onto his crotch.

She said that Moore eventually gave up, and told her, “You’re just a child and he said I’m the district attorney if you tell anyone about this no one will ever believe you.”

Nelson further claimed:

Moore was an adult, much older than I was, I knew he was the DA. I didn’t know what that meant, but I knew he was an important person and I would treat him with respect.

According to Allred, Nelson has not been in touch with the other four women who have made allegations against Moore, nor have they been in touch with her. Also, Nelson and her husband are Republicans who supported Donald Trump in the election, and Nelson claims that this has nothing to do with Republicans or a Democrats. Nelson said that she told her sister, her mother (4 years ago), and then soon-to-be husband of the alleged incident.

About why she waited so long to come forward:

I thought I was his only victim. I would’ve taken this to my grave if not for the courage of 4 other brave women. I want Mr. Moore to know he no longer has any power over me, and I no longer live in fear of him.

Allred said that Nelson would like the Senate Judiciary Committee to call a public hearing about Moore’s accusations, saying that Nelson is willing to appear and testify under oath if such a hearing takes place.

Moore’s senate campaign released this statement in response to the latest allegations:

Gloria Allred is a sensationalist leading a witch hunt, and she is only around to create a spectacle. Allred was the attorney who claims credit for giving us Roe v. Wade which has resulted in the murder of tens of millions of unborn babies.

We’ve said this before and we’ll say it again: Judge Moore is an innocent man and has never had any sexual misconduct with anyone. This is a witch hunt against a man who has had an impeccable career for over 30 years and has always been known as a man of high character.

Let it be understood: the truth will come forward, we will pursue all legal options against these false claims and Judge Moore will be vindicated.

(Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.)

–Dana

175 Responses to “New Allegations Against Roy Moore”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (023079)

  2. i said here why i think her silly story doesn’t add up

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  3. Let the smearing and amateur detective work begin!!

    Patterico (4af482)

  4. “I did nothing to encourage this behavior,” said Nelson, adding “I did not respond to any of Mr. Moore’s flirtatious behavior.”

    so she thinks he’s all up into her and then she gets in a car with him?

    pffft

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  5. Gee, Dana, apparently Mr. Moore failed to ask Beverly Young Nelson’s mother permission first, before assaulting her. Bev’s inscribed and dated yearbook is such a sweet touch.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  6. A crooked judge who calls himself “a man of high character”…

    Dave (445e97)

  7. “Nelson said she did not want to press criminal charges or sue Moore, only that she wants to testify under oath. Allred said she wants the Senate Judiciary Committee to investigate Nelson and other women’s allegations against Moore.” [Ref]

    Hooray!! Get her and the others and Roy-Boy-Toy hisself all sworn up and testify! That’s the ticket. By all means, and pronto! (I wonder if Roy would take the 5th, and if he does, how will his supporters react? Maybe with more than a few cries of A Constitutional Right!?) And sworn testimony or not, what’s the story with the signed yearbook? Roy? What’s the story? Hmmm?

    Why anyone should be remotely surprised that this puke of a jurist was a puke of a lawyer and generally a puke of a man throughout his entire adult life . . . why anyone should be remotely surprised is sad. A resounding indictment of how far partisan self-blinding has advanced in this country.

    Q! (86710c)

  8. DC was right. He’s gonna need a new hat.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  9. that eyeliner must be like special dolphin eyeliner cause the way she pretending to cry she should have had way bad raccoon face at the end

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  10. oopers the way she *was* pretending to cry i mean

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  11. @6. A regular Jim Bakker/Jimmy Swaggart type.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  12. here this is lovely

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  13. 1977 is surprising. Moore was just out of law school, and while he joined the DA’s office later in 1977, he never did become DA.

    I suppose he could have said he was “the DA” and even written that down in the year book as early as 1977, having just barely joined, it’s possible.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  14. TEE should be RWR

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  15. Neither side is playing smart.

    Moore foolishly released a denial even before the press conference.

    And Allred could have held back the yearbook. Moore would have likely denied ever knowing the victim, as he has all the others. Bringing out the yearbook then would have segued nicely from a “Roy Moore is a child molester” news cycle into a “Roy Moore is a liar” news cycle.

    Seems like a missed tactical opportunity to me.

    Dave (445e97)

  16. this is really kinda awesome but i’d be hard-pressed to say why exactly

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  17. that eyeliner must be like special dolphin eyeliner cause the way she pretending to cry she should have had way bad raccoon face at the end

    happyfeet, you single-handedly are representative of precisely why women are reluctant to come forward in these sorts of cases.

    Dana (023079)

  18. no i’m not

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  19. it never fails if you do a typo in a comment that’s the one what someone’s gonna quote

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  20. Breaking- Cornyn withdraws Moore endorsement. And what of Cruz… and what of Cruz…

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  21. but thank you for being nice about it unlike some people who are being mean to me today

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  22. The Antioch rules once seemed so silly…..

    Harcourt Fenton Mudd (5e0a82)

  23. @17 And Allred could have held back the yearbook. Moore would have likely denied ever knowing the victim, as he has all the others. Bringing out the yearbook then would have segued nicely from a “Roy Moore is a child molester” news cycle into a “Roy Moore is a liar” news cycle.

    Roy possibly would have done just that, though I doubt that that would be “likely” at this stage of the game. I expect that by now Roy has some adults advising him the best way to navigate this thing, and I also expect that those adults could clearly foresee additional (and potentially true and difficult-to-controvert/impugn) allegations, and have counselled him to say as little substantive (disprovable) as he possibly can limit himself to doing.

    While Allred’s never struck me as the sharpest knife in the drawer, perhaps she made the judgment that putting “all the cards” (?) on the table at the outset was in her client’s best interest. And perhaps her judgment was correct. I mean (at least from my perspective), it’s not that there’s a national left-wing conspiracy that’s operating here; and Allred’s duty (properly viewed) is to her client, not to the Dems, the GOP, WaPo, big media, Soros, McConnell, or to anyone else.

    Q! (86710c)

  24. Looking forward to our Captain confronting Moore: “Roy, you have to be yugely famous like me to get away with stuff like this.”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  25. jeb boosh should keep his entitled mouth shut

    mg (60b0f7)

  26. yeah Jeb should at least reign in his own nasty daddy in the present day before worrying his empty little head about nonsense allegations from forty years ago about people he’s never met his whole life

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  27. Here happyfeet’s comment where he calls Nelson a liar:

    no her silly story doesn’t add up

    the tell is where she says she left the restaurant at 10 when her shift ended and the restaurant closed and her boyfriend was late

    why wouldn’t she wait inside for her bf

    it makes no sense

    i know restaurants real good from working when i was little and we’d never all go home and let a waitress of *any* age wait in a dark parking lot all by herself

    that’s not even a thing

    so when she specifies that the restaurant was closed she’s trying to paper over a major hole in her yarn

    she’s such a liar

    her choice wasn’t to wait in the cold or get in a car with some guy

    her choice was to wait inside til her bf came (which he did very soon after according to her own story) … or leave with Mr. Moore knowing her bf was gonna show up and have no idea where she’d gone

    this makes no sense at all

    happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/13/2017 @ 12:51 pm

    The population in Gadsden in the late 70’s was approximately 47,000 people. Further, ” According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the city has a total area of 38.3 square miles (99.2 km2), of which 37.1 square miles (96.2 km2) is land and 1.1 square miles (2.9 km2), or 2.96%, is water.[3] The southern end of Lookout Mountain rises to the north of the city center.” Given that “most of Gadsden’s major industries closed in the 1970s and 1980s,” one can assume more people left as a result. This was not a big city, this was a small community, becoming smaller by the day. Today it is estimated to have 35.000 residents. It seems one can safely assume it’s a place where you know your neighbor. People knew each other. It wouldn’t be unusual for a teenager to wait outside knowing that her boyfriend was on the way to get her. On top of that, Nelson states he had a bad temper, and perhaps she didn’t want to incite him by waiting inside and taking longer to get to the car. Rememberr. too, everyone knew Roy Moore, and knew he was an important person, even teen-age girls – as well as their parents (see Corfman’s mom).

    Here is a current photo the Old Hickory Inn today. And if you go to their town’s website and view photos, even today it has a small-town look.

    Dana (023079)

  28. have you ever worked in a restaurant Dana

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  29. Yes, I have, happyfeet. And when I was around Nelson’s age. I also waited outside the closed establishment on certain evenings to be picked up. The population at the time was around 70,000 people, but felt “small town” as it was spread out.

    Dana (023079)

  30. I’ve been on the other end of that – the guy waiting in a restaurant that’s closed for one of the staff to be done for the night. And, this being NYC, when *I* was late, if the restaurant closed, my friend was ejected and went to a bar.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  31. I also waited outside the closed establishment on certain evenings to be picked up.

    I’m sorry this happened to you. This would never have happened on my watch.

    On top of that, Nelson states he had a bad temper, and perhaps she didn’t want to incite him by waiting inside and taking longer to get to the car.

    wait so you’re saying her bf was also a big fat abusive noo-noo head?

    all my life i had to fight i had to fight my daddy i had to fight my brothers

    a girl child ain’t safe

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  32. On top of that, Nelson states he had a bad temper, and perhaps she didn’t want to incite him by waiting inside and taking longer to get to the car.

    but wait

    then wouldn’t he have gotten *super*-pissed when he found out his main squeeze had left with an older, wealthier man?

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  33. this tangled web of lies will be her undoing

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  34. 47,000 seems like a biggish town to me, but if that counts as a small town where everyone knew everyone, then they knew Roy Moore was not the DA, but fresh out of law school and recently hired into the DA’s office.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  35. i’m a pray for beverly tonight

    she seems like a very troubled person

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  36. Moore, the adult male, told the teenage girl that he was the DA. He also signed her school yearbook identifying himself as such. He lied to Nelson. Further, how many 15 or 16 year olds know who the DA is in their city?

    Dana (023079)

  37. *allegedly* signed her yearbook

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  38. @Dana:He also signed her school yearbook identifying himself as such.

    Did he? I’ve seen the image, thanks. If he did sign it, yes, he lied about being DA. At least there’s a date on it, perhaps someone can confirm his movements on that date, 40 years ago.

    Further, how many 15 or 16 year olds know who the DA is in their city?

    You just said this: Rememberr. too, everyone knew Roy Moore, and knew he was an important person, even teen-age girls – as well as their parents (see Corfman’s mom). He’d been in town, what 6 months? So it would not suprise me to know she didn’t know he was the DA or not.

    I’m sure Gloria Allred did all due diligence though. She specializes in these.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  39. I am new to this blog but those “happyfeet” comments, in my opinion, are an obvious attempt to irritate most readers and drive them away. He should know that even mosquitos can be annoying. Its not really any great achievement.

    noel (b4d580)

  40. Well teh lady’s teary-eyed press conference sure convinced me! Allred, slip’nfall scheisters and class-action attorneys belong in a special corner of Hell.

    Colonel Haiku (993483)

  41. 40 years later… wow, it was absolutely riveting.

    Colonel Haiku (993483)

  42. At some point, regardless of what the facts might be, a person has to just face up to the question of whether they should be a candidate for office.

    These allegations might very well all be false, but the fact that Roy Moore has led the life that he has in a deep red state like Alabama, and that life has engendered so much antipathy towards the idea of him holding higher office from across the political spectrum, simply says that he’s not the person to be one of two US Senators from Alabama.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  43. @Shipwreckedcrew: and that life has engendered so much antipathy towards the idea of him holding higher office from across the political spectrum, simply says that he’s not the person to be one of two US Senators from Alabama.

    If so, the voters have a handy method to indicate that in the next few weeks.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  44. @44. OTOH: These allegations might very well all be true, but the fact that Roy Moore has led the life that he has in a deep red state like Alabama, and that life has engendered so much antipathy towards the idea of him holding higher office from across the political spectrum, simply says that he’s not the person to be one of two US Senators from Alabama.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  45. If the people of Alabama choose to elect him, the rabble behind these specious charges can all go take a flying fvck at a rolling donut.

    Colonel Haiku (993483)

  46. the thing what was most grotesque about this freak show today was how gloria felt compelled to show as evidence how a sketch artist had rendered Beverly as an attractive young woman

    you know why she felt she had to do that

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  47. Allred also showed her high school yearbook photo, happyfeet.

    Dana (023079)

  48. Colonel Haiku doesn’t appreciate those “class-action attorneys” who “belong in a special corner of Hell.”

    This, as he defends Roy Moore. An attorney of a much purer heart.

    noel (b4d580)

  49. true

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  50. @ Frederick,

    Did he? I’ve seen the image, thanks. If he did sign it, yes, he lied about being DA. At least there’s a date on it, perhaps someone can confirm his movements on that date, 40 years ago.

    You know he did. As you said, Allred did her due diligence.

    Here’s a side-by-side comparison of Moore’s signature, then and now.

    Dana (023079)

  51. @Dana:Allred also showed her high school yearbook photo, happyfeet.

    Yes, with a signature purporting to be “Roy Moore, DA”. Who was not a DA at the time, who had only been in town a few months since graduating from law school in Tuscaloosa.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  52. @ happyfeet,

    the thing what was most grotesque about this freak show today

    Apparently, to happyfeet, there isn’t really any way for an alleged victim of sexual assault to come forward and make her allegations that meets his unique standard of acceptability. Even her makeup must meet muster.

    Dana (023079)

  53. @Dana:As you said, Allred did her due diligence.

    Yep, Allred is the gold standard in allegations made years after the fact…

    If that signature had said “Roy Moore, Supreme Court Justice” that would have just been more evidence that he was a liar, and not that the signature was written by someone who wasn’t clear on his career.

    If the assault happened a few days after the yearbook it was Christmas, or within a day or so of Christmas. Perhaps he can document where he was every second of that week after Dec 22, 1977.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  54. IS TIME FOR TO GO MEEMEES TALK MORE TOMORROW

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  55. In related news, the guy whose tweet claimed that the Washington Post paid “1000$” to the Moore accusers (and couldn’t remember how many purple hearts he had) has now deleted every one of his tweets.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  56. Since 2011.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  57. This is interesting:

    This past weekend, I spoke or messaged with more than a dozen people—including a major political figure in the state—who told me that they had heard, over the years, that Moore had been banned from the mall because he repeatedly badgered teen-age girls. Some say that they heard this at the time, others in the years since. These people include five members of the local legal community, two cops who worked in the town, several people who hung out at the mall in the early eighties, and a number of former mall employees. (A request for comment from the Moore campaign was not answered.) Several of them asked that I leave their names out of this piece. The stories that they say they’ve heard for years have been swirling online in the days since the Post published its report. “Sources tell me Moore was actually banned from the Gadsden Mall and the YMCA for his inappropriate behavior of soliciting sex from young girls,” the independent Alabama journalist Glynn Wilson wrote on his Web site on Sunday. (Wilson declined to divulge his sources.) Teresa Jones, a deputy district attorney for Etowah County in the early eighties, told CNN last week that “it was common knowledge that Roy dated high-school girls.” Jones told me that she couldn’t confirm the alleged mall banning, but said, “It’s a rumor I’ve heard for years.”

    Dana (023079)

  58. “These allegations might very well all be false…”

    – shipwreckedcrew

    Ha, okay.

    Leviticus (7bd68e)

  59. We keep hearing and reading that there’s a problem with sexual harassment in the U.S. Senate and that they need to get to the bottom of it. When will that happen and why isn’t the media reporting on it? Who are these predators? The American people deserve answers!

    Colonel Haiku (993483)

  60. It’s starting to sound like Moore’s behavior with girls eventually became an “open secret” in Gadsden.

    Dana (023079)

  61. @Dana:It’s starting to sound like Moore’s behavior with girls eventually became an “open secret” in Gadsden.

    Perhaps it could have been–and it merely took 40 years, a Senate race gaining national attention, and the Washington Post, and Gloria Allred to dig up.

    It’s instructive to go back and reread Rolling Stone’s “A Rape on Campus”. Many people are quoted in there, talking about “open secrets” and things they’ve heard and experience, with plenty of corroborated facts. And yet the centerpiece accusation, months later, turned out not to be true.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  62. Is Moore better than the Democrat? Would a Democrat in Sessions’ senate seat be catastrophic?

    Same as Donald Trump vs. Hillary Clinton, a tough choice.

    I am constantly amazed that the Danas and Pattericos of the world fail to understand that nearly all politicians are horrible people.

    The choice is always between a horrible Democrat and a horrible Republican.

    Fred Z (05d938)

  63. Quiet guy. Always kept to himself.

    Pinandpuller (9a7f02)

  64. and that life has engendered so much antipathy towards the idea of him holding higher office from across the political spectrum

    This is the Age of Trump. There is a large group of voters who think hostility from the politicians is a good reason to vote for a candidate. And there is also that considerable number of people who think a korephiliac* who might be an actual child molester is still better than the best Democrat.

    *I made that up. Not sure what the correct term is.

    kishnevi (41a4d3)

  65. This accusation is in fact several degrees more serious than any of the others, because of the allegation he used physical force.

    kishnevi (41a4d3)

  66. Consider the whelp Patrick Murphy vs colonel west. Who as i recall was baselessly accused by Michelle fields and very few defended him. The former was revealed to be a fraud in many substantial respects

    narciso (d1f714)

  67. Emily Tillett of CBS News S November 13, 2017, 2:00 PM – Last Updated Nov 13, 2017 4:09 PM EST

    https://www.cbsnews.com/live-news/new-accuser-steps-forward-in-roy-moore-case-live-updates/

    Nelson went on, describing another incident in which Moore signed a school yearbook of hers when she was 16.

    “He wrote in my yearbook as follows: ‘To a sweeter more beautiful girl, I could not say Merry Christmas, Christmas, 1977, Love, Roy Moore, Old Hickory House. Roy Moore, DA.'”

    She calls writing in that yearbook an “incident?”

    That’s odd.

    What? Did he grab the yearbook from her? What did she say in the press conference?

    And what yearbook? Now yearbooks are usually only published in the last year of school (could be before, but it’s much less common)

    It was after signing the yearbook (on Thursday, December 22, 1977, that he molested her (she would be hard put to say it was the other way around, although if he grabbed the yearbook, maybe she could say the molestation was first.)

    And when she was molested, she was still 16:

    Nelson, according to a statement by Allred, was 15 and 16 years old at the time of the encounters with Moore.

    So she graduated high school at most a few months after her 17th birthday? Or got the yearbook one year early? Or that school had a yearbook for each grade? All these things are possible, but what’s true?

    Sammy Finkelman (8e756e)

  68. He let her out of the car in the middle of no place.

    So – she walked home? She walked back to the restaurant and waited for her boyfriend? She hitchhiked, and had better luck with the next driver? She found a pay phone at a gas station and called her mother to pick her up? What happened next??

    Sammy Finkelman (8e756e)

  69. @63 And yet the centerpiece accusation, months later, turned out not to be true.

    Yeah, yeah. Centerpiece. Well, now we have TWO major centerpieces going on Roy-Boy-Toy, and several others which paint Hizzoner as something of a perv / creepy. And I fail to see in the Rolling Stone story all the lessons which Frederick elliptically suggests are properly at play here. I mean, really – Hizzoner himself (his very self) is the “centerpiece” and the evidence is certainly starting to pile up pretty strongly and consistently regarding him.

    Everyone is free to believe whatever they want, of course. For myself, there’s certainly enough consistent smoke to infer fire (in a non-courtroom setting), and I echo McConnell’s conclusion that I believe the women. And I’m cautiously hopeful that the good folk of Alabama will come to a similar conclusion and vote accordingly. If only because it will tend to demonstrate that American politics is not entirely broken in its electorate itself, but because it will avoid one hell of a mess in Washington, if Moore is elected and the Senate is called to resolve the question of whether Moore will be seated. Oy! Like Washington is not dysfunctional enough!

    Q! (86710c)

  70. The reporter is the one who called it an incident.
    I graduated from high school in 1976, two months after my 17th birthday. There was a yearbook published each year, with photos of all students, from all four grade levels. Some people only bought the yearbook for their senior year (like me), some bought it each year. So she might have graduated at that age. Or the yearbook was for her sophomore year or junior year.

    The odd detail, now that I think of it, is that the yearbook was published in the spring. Which raises the question why she was lugging it around for people to sign in December. (Perhaps she graduated at the end of fall semester, either a half year ahead or a half year behind her peers.)

    kishnevi (41a4d3)

  71. the yearbook was published in the spring.
    My school’s yearbook, that is. I am assuming her school followed the same general time scheme of publishing the yearbook in time for graduation.

    kishnevi (41a4d3)

  72. Why anyone should be remotely surprised that this puke of a jurist was a puke of a lawyer and generally a puke of a man throughout his entire adult life . . . why anyone should be remotely surprised is sad. A resounding indictment of how far partisan self-blinding has advanced in this country.

    And it is not amazing that all this was unknown while he was a prominent figure in Alabama until four weeks before the election when he cannot be replaced on the ballot.

    I have a beautiful bridge in Arizona for sale. All you lefties would love it.

    Mike K (b3dd19)

  73. The year this allegedly took place makes sense, because, if he did this, he stopped doing that in 1979. On the other hand, too many people knew him by 1979 and what he was like then for a tale like like to be plausible then.

    Claiming to be the DA, as seen in that signature, makes sense, because some people now seem to have this misunderstanding that he was the DA and that could have come from talking to people who were there pre-1982, and because he was later under investigation for doing a corruption investigation without actually getting authority from the DA.

    So he might have gone around calling himself the DA.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e756e)

  74. “I made that up. Not sure what the correct term is.”

    – kishnevi

    Ephebophile, maybe.

    Leviticus (ff0564)

  75. It’s starting to sound like Moore’s behavior with girls eventually became an “open secret” in Gadsden.

    But not in the heatedly contested primary.

    Hmmmm

    My BS meter is pegged.

    Mike K (b3dd19)

  76. Κλέφτης λίκνου.

    nk (dbc370)

  77. Why was Amber Tamblyn in a bar when she was 16? It’s not like she met James Woods by the bar at Applebee’s walking to the bathroom.

    Pinandpuller (9a7f02)

  78. Cradle robber.

    nk (dbc370)

  79. Hmm. Not criminal enough.

    Leviticus (ff0564)

  80. “My BS meter is pegged.”

    – Mike K

    I would expect so.

    Leviticus (ff0564)

  81. Ephebephilia seems to to be used to refer to an adult homosexual lusting at a male of high school age, even though its formal definition does not distinguish between homo- and heterosexual attraction.

    kishnevi (41a4d3)

  82. On top of that, Nelson states he had a bad temper, and perhaps she didn’t want to incite him by waiting inside and taking longer to get to the car.

    No, that’s not a stretch at all.

    And, yeah, why does Allsleaze feel the need to present an artist’s sketch of her “client”? Maybe because there isn’t a photo where she doesn’t look like 25-year old truckstop waitress other than her yearbook picture?

    nk (dbc370)

  83. Its striking what attention isn’t paid to

    https://mobile.twitter.com/FoxNews/status/930218856324517888

    narciso (d1f714)

  84. Dr K, you are overlooking the simple fact that an accusation can be both a political dirty trick and true. “The Washington Post publishes it” does not automatically mean a story is false.
    The timing is probably due to the fact that the establishment underestimated his support among voters until relatively late, and therefore didn’t start digging for dirt until late in the game.

    kishnevi (41a4d3)

  85. The Miami herald didn’t get around to pointing out pat Murphy’s shortcomings gas till three years after he defeated Allen west

    narciso (d1f714)

  86. You just said this: Rememberr. too, everyone knew Roy Moore, and knew he was an important person, even teen-age girls – as well as their parents (see Corfman’s mom). He’d been in town, what 6 months? So it would not suprise me to know she didn’t know he was the DA or not.

    Frederick (64d4e1) — 11/13/2017 @ 3:07 pm

    How many 16 year olds before the days of Law and Order knew what a DA did?

    Pinandpuller (9a7f02)

  87. Lots. There was Perry Mason before Sam Waterston had even read “The Great Gatsby”.

    nk (dbc370)

  88. I am new to this blog but those “happyfeet” comments, in my opinion, are an obvious attempt to irritate most readers and drive them away. He should know that even mosquitos can be annoying. Its not really any great achievement.
    noel (b4d580) — 11/13/2017 @ 3:10 pm

    Mosquitoes are can do good stuff like accidentally pollinating comment threads

    How Mosquitoes Pollinate Flowers

    Pinandpuller (9a7f02)

  89. Maybe because there isn’t a photo where she doesn’t look like 25-year old truckstop waitress other than her yearbook picture?

    Even if she did look older than her years, it wouldn’t change what she alleges he did to her in the car.

    Dana (023079)

  90. Did you know lawyers have sweet car phones in black and white? You can call your 16 year old chippie from across the pine bottom.

    Pinandpuller (9a7f02)

  91. Announching the 99 Cent The Moore Breakfast Special, at the Olde Hickory House on E. Meighan Blvd. off of Highway 431 in Gadsden, Alabama:

    Toast, w/a side order of toast.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  92. About 21 years ago, I was on the same flight with Jesse Jackson. If I were to claim that he came over to where I was sitting, sat in the empty seat next to me, and blah, blah, blah, how could he defend himself? After all, it is corroborated by the fact that we were on the same flight and by his drinking and philandering which are a matter of record.

    nk (dbc370)

  93. Some elected officials aren’t changing their minds, like Mo Brooks:

    “There are major issues facing the United States of America, deficit and debt that can lead to insolvency and bankruptcy, funding for national security, border security, abortion, appointment of Supreme Court justices — Doug Jones will vote wrong on each of those issues, Roy Moore will vote right on each of those issues,” Brooks said in a statement Monday.

    That’s why I am voting for Roy Moore.”

    Dana (023079)

  94. You know he did. As you said, Allred did her due diligence.

    Here’s a side-by-side comparison of Moore’s signature, then and now.
    Dana (023079) — 11/13/2017 @ 3:28 pm

    His signature hasn’t changed in 40 years almost like he’s taunting us.

    Pinandpuller (9a7f02)

  95. His tail-lights flickered as he pulled up to the diner
    The same old crowd was hanging out again tonite
    He knew that girl’d never looked any finer
    It feels like maybe the timing’s right

    He was the kind of man
    Do all he could
    Above all he had integrity
    But she was so young
    He couldn’t hepp hisself
    In love with a truck stop girl

    As he went inside he was merrily greeted
    By the girl with who he was in love
    She held out a glass and said have another
    This is the last time we can meet
    With her hair piled up high and a look in her eye
    That would make any good man behave like swine
    All his eyes could see, all his eyes could see
    Was the stares from all those around him

    He ran out to the lot and climbed into his car
    And drove off without his headlights on
    It was a terrible thing
    To see what remained of the car that poor Roy was in
    But she was so young
    He couldn’t hepp hisself
    He died lovin’ that truck stop girl

    Colonel Haiku (993483)

  96. Now that Gloria Allred’s in we won’t see any irresponsible or unsupported allegations, she’ll see to it.

    If there is any exculpatory evidence, it will show up months from now, after it has ceased to matter. If there isn’t any way to disprove any of it, it’s only Roy Moore. It’s not like it’s Ted Cruz or Mark Rubio, not this week anyway.

    Frederick (c42085)

  97. So she graduated high school at most a few months after her 17th birthday? Or got the yearbook one year early? Or that school had a yearbook for each grade? All these things are possible, but what’s true?
    Sammy Finkelman (8e756e) — 11/13/2017 @ 4:34 pm

    To a cool chick who doesn’t talk too much in class. Don’t party too hearty this summer. I’m Roy Moore, B*tch!

    Pinandpuller (9a7f02)

  98. We need a time machine.

    crazy (d99a88)

  99. Personally, I think it’s less political and more the matriarchy trying to fix the supply, demand and prices on its most valuable asset. No more dinner and a movie and “wham, bang, thank you ma’am” in the backseat of the car. Now, that’ll cost you. A lot and for the rest of your life.

    nk (dbc370)

  100. Cradle robber.
    nk (dbc370) — 11/13/2017 @ 5:00 pm

    Ashton Kutcher

    Tomb Raider

    Pinandpuller (9a7f02)

  101. Inuits have 60 words for snow and Greeks have dozens for “lovin”.

    Pinandpuller (9a7f02)

  102. Would wager this stuff all happened.

    But the timing raises other issues; is there some database of things or network of sources either the MSM or the Dems sat on until things were this far along. Moore has been a public figure for a very long time and been involved in controversies going back decades. This could have been sprung on him at any time in the past. It’s obvious why this is coming out now, but why not before? Looks like they have waited until the very point of max damage.

    Bugg (08921e)

  103. English has more. All the Latin, Germanic, and Greek. And a few that our soldiers brought back from the Far East but you have to preface those with “Hey, GI, you likee …”

    nk (dbc370)

  104. The Canadian Caboose ‘leads from behind':

    When asked if he was pulling his endorsement, Cruz responded: “I am not able to urge the people of Alabama to support his candidacy so long as these allegations remain un-refuted. Both last week and this week, there are serious charges of criminal conduct that if true, not only make him unfit to serve in the Senate but merit criminal prosecution,” he added. “Judge Moore, like any American, is entitled to present a defense. He’s entitled to put forth the facts demonstrating that the charges are not true, but as it stands, I can’t urge the people of Alabama to support a campaign in the face of these charges without serious, persuasive demonstration that the charges are not true.”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  105. Re Dana@98
    I will merely quote myself
    And there is also that considerable number of people who think a korephiliac who might be an actual child molester is still better than the best Democrat.

    kishnevi (41a4d3)

  106. Dr K, you are overlooking the simple fact that an accusation can be both a political dirty trick and true.

    No, I agree but why the rush ?

    The Democrats timed this with WaPoo to elect the Democrat.

    Why did this not come out during the hotly contested primary ?

    Herman Cain and Ted Stevens know how this works.

    Mike K (b3dd19)

  107. kishnevi,

    Got it. We are willing to sacrifice our morals and principles to keep out a Democrat. That begets the question: then what makes Republicans any different than the Democrats they disdain?

    Dana (023079)

  108. No we aren’t willing to give up based on media that has practiced criminal malfeasance for more than a year.

    narciso (d1f714)

  109. Dana, that’s why I voted for the last three Libertarian presidential candidates.

    kishnevi (41a4d3)

  110. Well that’s mostly harmless along with voting against dear deb in the primary.

    narciso (d1f714)

  111. 97. nk (dbc370) — 11/13/2017 @ 5:34 pm

    About 21 years ago, I was on the same flight with Jesse Jackson. If I were to claim that he came over to where I was sitting, sat in the empty seat next to me, and blah, blah, blah, how could he defend himself?

    Uusally the lies are not so in conformity with the truth. Something similar happened with Donald Trump last year, but it turned out that Braniff didn’t even those types of jets on that route in 1979.

    http://dailyrushbo.com/limbaugh-woman-who-claims-trump-octopused-her-is-making-it-up/

    And Got News has a story that this woman that claims Trump octopused her is making it up. Jessica Leeds.

    She claims, for example, that she was flying a Braniff. Braniff was an old Texas airline in Houston and Dallas. It was a great airline. I loved flying Braniff when I was a kid. She claimed that she was flying Braniff from Dallas to New York, 1979, on a Boeing 707. When I saw that I said, “Wait a minute. I never saw Braniff fly a 707.”

    ##################
    RUSH: Well, it turns out that Braniff did not fly 707s from Dallas to New York like Jessica Leeds says she was on, and that was the flight that Trump octopused her. In fact, we’ve got the old yellowed schedules that you used to be able to buy as published pamphlets. Newark and New York from Dallas?

    If you wanted to fly Braniff, you had to fly a Boeing 727. Now, I’m sure that Ms. Leeds would say, “Well, I don’t know 707, 727. What difference does it make?” Well, it’s gonna turn out to make a lot of difference.

    Not to mention that there was nothing at all that said that Donald Trump was on such a flight. (she had to make it that long ago, because Donald Trump later flew on his own private jet)

    There was a difference maybe also in the seats between a 707 and a 727, and her story fit a 727. (I’m not sure but I think that was point Rush Limbaugh was getting to.)

    https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2016/10/14/trump_octopused_her_on_which_plane_/

    RUSH: Yesterday, ladies and gentlemen, I raised a question when we learned about the woman that Trump said octopused her on the airplane. It turns out her name is Jessica Leeds. It turns out that she said that after dinner in first class, Trump raised the armrest and moved in for the octopus moves. I raised a question based on my memory traveling first class. I don’t remember armrests being able to move in first class on the airplane, but I didn’t know. It’s been a while since I’ve flown first class.

    So I asked people out in the audience and I got tons of responses from flight attendants from 30 years ago, 40 years ago, today confirming that armrests in first class did not move..

    Then they tried to say that the armrests did move.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e756e)

  112. True, alas.

    kishnevi (41a4d3)

  113. …then what makes Republicans any different than the Democrats they disdain?

    Nobody ever said they were– except those bloviating, conservative GOP family values gas bags, of course. Watching them go down in flames rivals… well, their distant cousin:

    https://www.c-span.org/video/?305403-1/hindenburg-disaster

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  114. How to disprove accusations without the use of a time machine:

    You could also ask more questions. Ask them to elaborate on that. If they’re inventing details they are going to run into trouble.

    Then there’s things like how did the newspapers find out? Did they get accusations that didn’t pan out? (before there would be people copycatting this) The newspaper shouldn’t keep a disproven allegation all to itself.

    It’s hard to find real victims. The people who wanted to destroy Bob Menendez, in order to remove a protector of his friend, apparently couldn’t find any of the actual prostitutes he slept with, underaged or not..

    One thing: Mrs. Moore better be careful about people telling her things because they could be lying. like the person who claimed to have been on the same plane with Jessica Leeds and Donald Trump. The Trump campaign actually cited that for a day or two. (again, there was no reason for Trump to be on such a flight)

    Sammy Finkelman (8e756e)

  115. No secret

    And yet people who lived in Etowah County during that time have said Moore’s flirting with and dating much younger women and girls was no secret.

    “These stories have been going around this town for 30 years,” said Blake Usry, who grew up in the area and lives in Gadsden. “Nobody could believe they hadn’t come out yet.”

    Usry, a traveling nurse, said he knew several of the girls that Moore tried to flirt with.

    “It’s not a big secret in this town about Roy Moore,” he said. “That’s why it’s sort of frustrating to watch” the public disbelieve the women who have come forward, he said.

    Usry, who was a teenager at the time, remembers seeing Moore at the mall often.

    “He would go and flirt with all the young girls,” he said. “It’d seem like every Friday or Saturday night (you’d see him) walking around the mall, like the kids did.”

    Jason Nelms, who now lives in Tennessee but grew up in nearby Southside, was a regular at the mall when he was a teenager.

    He recalled being told by a mall employee that they kept watch for an older guy who was known to pick up younger girls.

    Nelms said he was told later by a concession worker at the mall that it was Roy Moore.

    Dana (023079)

  116. 110. Ted Cruz talks like he never heard of the statute of limitations. There can’t be any prosecution. These alleged events happened in 1978 and 1979. He knows that. He hopes the voters in Texas do not, or are confused about when these alleged events happened.

    I read further about the Beverly Young Nelson claim. Apparently she is saying the car remained parked next to a dumpster (means people walking on the street couldn’t see what was going on) the whole time she was in it. So that would mean what – she decided to wait for her boyfriend, after all? Did he come?

    Sammy Finkelman (8e756e)

  117. “These allegations might very well all be false…”

    – shipwreckedcrew

    Ha, okay.
    Leviticus (7bd68e) — 11/13/2017 @ 3:49 pm

    You clearly missed a lot of days at law school, Leviticus.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/woman-says-roy-moore-tried-to-rape-her-at-16-i-was-begging-him-to-stop

    Nelson said she first met Moore at the Olde Hickory House restaurant in Gadsen, Alabama, where she said she began working at age 15.

    Gloria Allred is an ambulance chaser of the first order, but she’s good enough an attorney to advise her client to say this happened after she turned 16. Not when she first met Moore at 15. Why?

    Allred went on to say that Nelson is not looking into criminal charges or lawsuits but wants the opportunity to testify under oath at a hearing.

    Had she claimed Moore did this when she was 15; in Alabama there are no criminal statutes of limitations for rape, violent sexual abuse, sexual abuse with the threat of violence, and any sexual abuse of a victim under the age of 16.

    But since she says she was 16 then she had three years to file criminal charges. And she had 2 years from her 19th birthday to bring a civil lawsuit if Alabama considers this a case of child sexual abuse. Since she was at the age of consent she may be considered an adult, in which case she had two years from the event to file a lawsuit.

    How very generous for Allred to imply in her carefully crafted statement that her client is cutting Moore a break out of the goodness of her heart. “Nelson is not looking into criminal charges or lawsuits…” When Allred knows d2mn well her client’s opportunity to do so passed over 30 years ago. So basically what Allred is saying is her client isn’t seeking to do the impossible. But then, you wouldn’t know that, would you, Leviticus? Just like your fellow laymen who didn’t sit in on the day in law school where they went over statutes of limitations and why we have them. Scoff if you like, but it doesn’t recommend you as an attorney.

    Yes, these allegations may well be false. They may be true. It’s impossible to prove or disprove these allegations at this late date (wise of Allred to have her client say it happened at 16, because if it happened at 15 she could bring criminal charges at that would open her client up to legal jeopardy should Moore be able to destroy the details of her story). But she can say whatever she wants under oath before Congress no matter how untrue. Because any Senator who dares question her story will get exactly the same reaction I get on these comment threads. “You’re exactly the kind of guy who makes it so difficult for these women to come forward!!”

    To which I respond, “Good.”

    I joined the Navy in 1987. Then in 1991 we had the Tailhook “scandal.” Scandal is in scare quotes because exactly zero officers who insisted on taking their cases to court martial where they have due process rights and there are rules of evidence (as opposed ot non-judicial punishment, an administrative procedure much like the Title IX Stalinist show trials on today’s college campuses) were convicted of any wrongdoing.

    This angered the women in Congress, who told the Navy to start producing better results. And the Navy couldn’t move fast enough to comply. I was personally involved in various capacities in dozens of sexual harassment or abuse cases and not one of them were true. Because the Navy actively encourages false accusations. Once a female Ensign told another witness and I that she planned to accuse our Captain because she was angry she only received a Navy Achievement Medal during her tour, and not the slightly higher but still insignificant Navy Commendation Medal during her tour. Sure enough, as promised, when she detached she threw the “grenade back in the door” when she detached. Long story short she got the CO relieved. Apparently she had reported him to the Navy Inspector General for some sort of unwanted and unlawful sexual contact. Then as is the Navy way they investigated. And investigated. They made the man’s life a living h3ll for over a year because they wanted scalps to prove to those Congresswomen they were in deep compliance. But eventually even they had to let him go. But of course his career was over since he had been relieved of command so he had no choice to retire even though he had been on the fast track to Admiral.

    Other times I merely overheard women say, “Watch this” and throw out casual charges of harassment.

    Why didn’t I say something? I did. It’s just that it didn’t matter as the Navy wanted the false accusations. The bar to prove a false accusation was so high that unless I recorded the women, or they admitted to investigators that they had made the whole story up, these women were untouchable and they knew it. Which is why over the years the Navy went something like 0 for 32 in my experience. Zero allegations substantiated but a lot of careers ruined by the “shoot first, ask questions later” method of investigation. And I’m not just relying on my own experience, but it was the same at other commands as well as in the Army, Marines, and Air Force. All smoke, no fire. It got to the point where men couldn’t even enforce uniform and grooming standards when women were involved. AS one Chief Petty Officer at a co-located command discovered. We have regulations that cover everything from hair length, color of underwear, (the men have similar regulations) to nail polish. Many of the women in the Chief’s shop were violating every possible standard they could. Like a lot of teenagers their minds were mostly on their sex lives. He had warned them several times in specific terms about how they were violating standards for nail polish and hair length. Then he started writing them up to report them for disciplinary action.

    They got together and coordinated their stories, then accused him of sexual harassment in retaliation.

    This was an interesting case because because what they had done fits the definition of mutiny, a serious crime in the Navy.

    Article 94 UCMJ: Mutiny and sedition

    (a) “Any person subject to this chapter who–

    (1) with intent to usurp or override lawful military authority, refuse, in concert with any other person, to obey orders or otherwise do his duty or creates any violence or disturbance is guilty of mutiny;

    The command made the Cheif’s life a living h3ll for a year or so when they finally let him go (he continued his career). But despite the fact that the command knew full well the women had mutineed when they had acted in concert to refuse to obey lawful orders to comply with regulations they didn’t pursue any charges. Why? Oh, because, Leviticus, that would have made the commanding officer, his second in command, and the relevant department head “exactly the kind of awful guys who make it so difficult for these women to come forward!!”

    Therefore it’s best to avoid punishing potential felony level crimes such as mutiny because we wouldn’t want the poor dears to be afraid to come forward. As an aside, if you’re wondering why Navy warships keep getting blindsided and holed by merchant vessels and undermanned, unarmed small combatants blunder right into the waiting arms of the IRGCN at the well-known Farsi Island (then cry when they’re captured) this is one reason. It’s not the only reason, but when you combine that with all the other social justice requirements such that the Navy is going to overlook crimes like mutiny for PC reasons what else can you can expect but a general breakdown in discipline.

    If not enough false accusations are coming in the Navy will manufacture charges. Such as in my case. The short version is that a female Lieutenant and a very good friend had too much to drink at an unofficial command function held in her honor. So four friends and I made sure she got back to her on-base apartment. We gave her some water and an aspirin and told her to sleep it off, then left. A snake who lived in the same building saw us leave, then figuring this was his big chance somehow got into her apartment. And was caught red-handed by one of our department heads who had gone to check on her. He demanded to know what he was doing. He named names and said he had kicked us all out because we had been trying to take advantage of her. The following Monday all of our department heads threatened us with dire consequences if we didn’t confess. They also threatened the female officer with a charge of conduct unbecoming if she didn’t accuse us of sexual abuse. God love her, she refused and remains one of my favorite people to this day. None of us confessed to any wrongdoing as we had committed none. It was touch and go for a while but eventually the executive officer tole the department heads to knock off their malicious stupidity. But of course it wasn’t stupid in he sense that the Navy would trade scalps for promotions and they were just responding to incentives.

    I have never seen or heard of a legitimate case of sexual harassment or abuse within my personal area of responsibility during my career. Which isn’t to say they don’t exist; I’ve read about them. But to show you how frivolous the cases were in my personal area of operations were, a supervisor and a Judge Advocate General (lawyer) from the Naval Supply Center, San Diego once provided my command with sexual harassment and assault training. It turns out another civilian supervisor had responded to the complaints of people in his office, both men and women, about a woman who was dressing extremely provocatively. So he politely asked her to dress more professionally. Naturally she charged him with sexual harassment and naturally the charge stuck despite the fact that he counseled her in full view but out of earshot of everyone else in the office. Who all backed him up.

    The command transferred him to another office and told him to never be alone with his accuser again. One day he inadvertently violated that order. He volunteered to work the supply desk so the assigned personnel could go to lunch. A Sailor came in with a requisition he didn’t know how to fill so he asked him to wait while he went to get help. The fifth office he went into was not empty. His accuser was in there but he couldn’t see her until he got around the first cubicle. Fortunately her back was to him, or so he thought, so he immediately turned around and continued his search. But she later found out somehow that he had entered her office, reported it, and he was fired. I still remember the JAG officer boasting about, “This is how seriously the Navy takes sexual harassment and abuse.”

    This as the best they could do. Do you realize how much Navy there is in San Diego? And this was the best they could do. And no, they weren’t trying to make some sort of statement about how the Navy took even the most trifling offense seriously. Both the civilian supervisor and the JAG officer had made it very clear they considered this to have been a major violation. This was right in line with what I had seen not only in my own experience but in the reports that crossed my desk even when I was on the staff of the regional commander whose AOR stretched from Honshu, JA, through Singapore to the Navy shore establishment on the British Indian Ocean Territory of Diego Garcia. Just the most trifling nonsense. And I often served on administrative separation boards so I was familiar with what must have been hundreds of cases.

    And here was more of it.

    Naturally the members of my command were horrified by this draconian over reaction the JAG officer was so proud of. They let out an audible gasp. One female petty officer near me said, “Oh that poor man.” I had already put in my papers to separate from active duty in no small part due to the manure I was sitting through at that moment, so I had nothing left to lose. So I asked the JAG officer why the Navy not only didn’t take false accusations seriously but actively encouraged them. She was gobsmacked. She had never considered such a thing before. When she recovered she asked, “Lieutenant, don’t you think sexual harassment and abuse are dangers you need to protect your Sailors from?” I responded, “Lieutenant, you’re a danger I need to protect my Sailors from.”

    I practically got a standing ovation from the women and men in my command because I had said what everyone was thinking, which incensed my CO but as I said I was leaving active duty and could get away with it.

    So am I the kind of evil monster who makes it difficult for women to come forward? Sometimes, when I smell a rat. As I do here.

    I fully expect Allred or some other ambulance chaser to dredge up another accuser who this time will allege that she spent two years chained up in Roy Moore’s bondage dungeon. And everyone will demand she must be believed.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  118. Roy Moore’s wife, Kayla, put out a statement today:

    “After the accusations came out against Judge Moore his polling numbers did not change, so do you think they will let up?? We knew something was coming, just did not know what next. This is the same Gloria Allred that did the very exact same thing to Trump during his campaign. Going on two months now they’ve been on a witchhunt here in Etowah County and our state advertising people to step forward with accusations and we are gathering evidence of money being paid to people who would come forward. Which is part of why we are filing suit!

    I feel awful for Moore’s family. It’s got to be unbelievably stressful for them right about now.

    Dana (023079)

  119. Morrison’s Cafeteria? Haven’t heard that name in years. My parents used to take me to the one in Hollywood at the Sears Mall.

    kishnevi (41a4d3)

  120. English has more. All the Latin, Germanic, and Greek. And a few that our soldiers brought back from the Far East but you have to preface those with “Hey, GI, you likee …”
    nk (dbc370) — 11/13/2017 @ 6:20 pm

    That’s not all they brought back…

    Mommy’s all right

    Daddy’s all right

    Pinandpuller (9a7f02)

  121. Right the same New Yorker that has been trying to destroy Clarence Thomas for 23 years.

    narciso (d1f714)

  122. 121. Dana (023079) — 11/13/2017 @ 7:21 pm

    And yet people who lived in Etowah County during that time have said Moore’s flirting with and dating much younger women and girls was no secret.

    And he eventually married one of these girls, too! And he’s still married to her.

    Roy and Kayla were careful not to try to tip off anyone (who didn’t already know) what their age difference was, * and when she met him and this secretiveness about her age could have been the tipoff to the opposition private detectives that there was something to look into here, and they had the imagination to wonder if there were more girls besides Kayla, and if they couldn’t find anything really bad, maybe see if they could invent some stories.

    Now when they say this wasn’t a secret, this means it wasn’t a secret at the time, but even then was little known outside the immediate vicinity where this happened.

    Now if he tried to rape any of these girls, or tried to get them to do something they weren’t prepared for, that would have been a secret.

    ——————
    * I don’t know what’s in Roy’s book, but any clue to her age is not their web site.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e756e)

  123. That has been an apologist for gitmo detainees for 14 years, who issued libel after libel against the Koch bros.

    narciso (d1f714)

  124. Admitted Josh green got the whole polling story wrong last year, which is why they have him a contract to write about bannon;

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2005/10/roy-and-his-rock/304264/

    narciso (d1f714)

  125. It is almost impossible to determine the truth of any of these allegations given the present media hysteria. It is also utterly amazing that no Democrat politicians are being implicated. I refuse to join the stampede.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  126. @124. Sarcasm, right? Odd the little missus phrased it ‘Judge Moore’ instead of ‘my husband.’ As w/Ronnie, perhaps the 70 ywear old calls her Mommie and likes to ‘ask for permission’ to do a lot of things these days.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  127. a korephiliac
    kishnevi (41a4d3) — 11/13/2017 @ 6:48 pm

    Is that a guy who develops uncontrollable bleeding after touching someone under 16?

    Pinandpuller (9a7f02)

  128. Kayla is probably not that much younger. This link says that the time they jet, she was divorced with one daughter, and they met at a Bible study group…very different from high school students working part time at a local diner or mall
    http://www.newsweek.com/roy-moore-wife-kayla-facebook-victims-paid-709742

    kishnevi (41a4d3)

  129. @kishnevi

    Someone in the Breitbart thread told me she was 24 years old in 1985. He wasn’t 100% certain. Here’s what it says

    Roy Moore married Kayla Kiser in 1985, when she was apparently 24. He had met her 6 years earlier, when she was 18, in 1979. Thirty-eight years ago. Roy and Kayla Moore remain married after 32 years. (Dates and ages compiled from multiple sources, but I think they are correct. There was one source that claimed she is 52, but the previous numbers make her 56.))

    These facts, assuming that they are correct, gives me a somewhat more benign impression of his dating the three women who were above the age of consent. He was looking for a candidate to be his wife, and he was looking for a younger woman.

    Offering them alcoholic beverages is a violation of the law, but judging by my observations at college in the late 60s and earlier 70s, at least half of all college students were guilty of underage drinking.

    The case of the 14-year-old is obviously more problematic. That episode depends on the credibility of those involved, and I don’t have a basis for making that judgment. The discrepancy with regard to the presence of a phone in Leigh’s bedroom is slightly concerning, but not depositive. I also don’t think that the stories about the older girls demonstrates a pattern of behavior, since the allegations with respect to the 14-year-old are clearly different from those in the case of the older girls.

    Gary Coleman (3266b6) — 11/13/2017 @ 1:05 am

    Sammy Finkelman (8e756e)

  130. Well actually the jmc poll was an outlier, I’m surprised they didn’t assign Kurt eichenwald to write it.

    narciso (d1f714)

  131. Is that a guy who develops uncontrollable bleeding after touching someone under 16?

    No, it’s a worshiper of Persephone.

    Kore is daughter. The Greek word for girl is koritsi.

    nk (dbc370)

  132. my observations at college in the late 60s and earlier 70s, at least half of all college students were guilty of underage drinking.

    In the late 60s and early 70s it was pretty much impolite not to sleep with someone if they asked nicely. And alcohol was only one of several drugs widely available on campus. I don’t think it is possible for people who did not live through that period to understand just how loose everything was.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  133. If you remember the 60’s, you weren’t doing it right.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  134. Sammy,the Newsweek account contradicts that. It says they met about one year before they married, and that she was divorced with a daughter whom Moore adopted.
    Unless perhaps he met her six years earlier, but did not court her then.

    kishnevi (41a4d3)

  135. It is also utterly amazing that no Democrat politicians are being implicated.

    Roy Moore was a Democrat at the time all the alleged offenses took place…

    Dave (445e97)

  136. She might have been 24, but the Newsweek story indicates he met here in a completely different way from cruising malls and flirting with waitresses.

    kishnevi (41a4d3)

  137. Kore wa nan desu ka?

    If you develop uncontrollable bleeding for more than four hours see Asclepius (or asclepeion).

    The ambiguity of the serpent as a symbol, and the contradictions it is thought to represent, reflect the ambiguity of the use of drugs, which can help or harm, as reflected in the meaning of the term pharmakon, which meant “drug”, “medicine”, and “poison” in ancient Greek. Products deriving from the bodies of snakes were known to have medicinal properties in ancient times, and in ancient Greece, at least some were aware that snake venom that might be fatal if it entered the bloodstream could often be imbibed. Snake venom appears to have been ‘prescribed’ in some cases as a form of therapy

    Pinandpuller (9a7f02)

  138. Roy Moore was a Democrat at the time all the alleged offenses took place…

    And he wasn’t called on his sh1t until after that changed.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  139. So curiously they had met around the time the alleged encounter with corfman, doesn’t that strike you as in conflict with the new narrative. Want there a fellow who was framed by an unscrupulous political operative who tried tie indicate untoward behavior toward this person. I think his name wee o’keefe.

    narciso (d1f714)

  140. Of course the local Alabama portal indulges in much the same rumor mongering.

    narciso (d1f714)

  141. I thought I should clarify. When I was assigned to Commander, Naval Forces Japan we did have to deal with a number of sexual assaults. In other words, rape. But all such incidents that I can recall occurred off-base or involved a Japanese national. Such as:

    http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/9704/02/briefs.pm/navy.rape.html

    WASHINGTON (CNN) — A U.S. Navy sailor accused of raping a Japanese woman is in custody on a base in Yokohama, Japan.

    The incident allegedly occurred Tuesday in the barracks at the Yokosuka naval base; the 21-year-old woman reported it Wednesday.

    …Anger against American forces in Okinawa boiled up after a 12-year-old girl was raped by U.S. servicemen in September 1995. Two Marines and one sailor were convicted.

    And:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/14/us-sailor-arrested-in-okinawa-on-suspicion-of

    This doesn’t make it any less heinous but in both such cases the Japanese authorities demand jurisdiction and get it. Which means it’s handled by the Japanese criminal justice system. Our involvement is limited to monitoring the legal process once the Japanese take custody of the prisoner, then visiting the convicted prisoners who are held at a prison in Yokosuka (all American servicemembers are) to ensure they have health and comfort items. These were high profile international incidents when they occurred but thankfully extremely rare.

    I’ve been wracking my brain to remember if there were any sexual assaults on-base involving only Americans or dependents while I was there which would have been entirely within our jurisdiction (Seventh Fleet has jurisdiction over all such legal cases afloat or seagoing commands such as the airwing) but I don’t recall any such incidents.

    Sexual abuse would be, as I recall, when someone abuses their authority to coerce a subordinate into a sexual relationship. The case concerning my CO would be one such example. And it was typical in that despite all the digging the investigators couldn’t substantiate the charges. As you recall that case was instigated by a female ensign who had her heart set on a Navy Commendation Medal and like a kid who doesn’t get what they want for Christmas she threw a tantrum. Seventh Fleet had several such cases I’m sure but I wouldn’t really know about them. I recall that we didn’t have any cases that we could substantiate to a degree that we could charge anyone. Since I served on many administrative separation boards had there been any cases where an individual opted for non-judicial punishment to avoid a court martial I would have been aware of it. Nope, nada. So, many accusations, nothing ever came of it. And believe you me if the investigators could have squeezed a viable charge out of it they would have just to make Congress happy, but their inability to do so has led to Congresswomen to accuse the Navy and military of not taking sexual abuse charges seriously.

    We had more sexual harassment cases than I could count. That’s mostly what we dealt with. And frankly in a large number of cases the charges were brought by individuals already in trouble. Like the recent racial hate crime hoax at the Air Force Academy prep school in which the perpetrator was trying to avoid getting kicked out for unrelated disciplinary actions by making themselves a victim.

    Of course, I didn’t spend my entire active duty career at CNFJ. I served at four other commands where nothing serious ever happened much to the disappointment of Congress.

    I don’t doubt sexual assault and sexual abuse occur. As I said I’ve read about them in the papers.

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2014-03-20/news/sns-rt-us-usa-courtmartial-sinclair-20140303_1_brigadier-general-jeffrey-sinclair-colonel-james-pohl-sexual-assault-charges

    FORT BRAGG, North Carolina (Reuters) – An Army general who admitted to an adulterous sexual affair and other improper relationships with junior female officers was spared jail and dismissal from the service on Thursday, a sentence critics decried as a failure of military justice.

    The case that derailed the 27-year Army career of Brigadier General Jeffrey Sinclair ended with a reprimand and $20,000 in forfeited pay as punishment after a plea deal in the rare court-martial of a top officer absolved him of sexual assault charges…

    This guy should have been prosecuted to the full extent of the law. But then so should have Bergdahl so I’m well used to the nauseous feeling I get in such cases.

    As I said I’m prepared to believe women when they accuse powerful men of assault or abuse. But it’s going to be far from automatic because I’ve dealt with hundreds of such cases professionally and the vast majority of the accusations were false. Especially if Gloria Allred is involved.

    All kidding aside, Allred sticking her nose in and the lectures the Alabama electorate is getting from DC is practically guaranteed to produce a Roy Moore victory.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  142. 141. kishnevi (41a4d3) — 11/13/2017 @ 8:15 pm

    Sammy,the Newsweek account contradicts that. It says they met about one year before they married, and that she was divorced with a daughter whom Moore adopted.

    Unless perhaps he met her six years earlier, but did not court her then.

    I think we;re back to Square One. That one of his children is not the child of both of them is new, but is something that might be left out. Gary here (the first time I see him actually) as you can see, didn’t indicate any of his sources, but indicated he’d seen a few which didn’t disagree with each other too much.

    Newsweek cites something called Decision magazine. Decision magazine is something connected with the Billy Graham Evangelstic Association.

    The story of how and when they met might be taken from this article dated May 9, 2016:

    https://billygraham.org/decision-magazine/april-2015/alabama-chief-justice-roy-moore-stands-strong-for-god/

    …but it says nothing about her having a child or being divorced but only that she had worked in Atlanta as a model and that she had recently become what sounds like a born again Christian. She is quoted as saying looking for someone was not in either of their minds.

    The following source claims Kayla Kisor wss 24 years old in 1985:

    http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/11/roy_moore_accused_of_sexual_mi.html

    But it says nothing about how they were introduced or about a child or a divorce. They both returned to Gadsden at about the same time. A Politico article of February 11, 2015 also says she was 24 and does mention she was divorced as does a 2010 al.com article..

    Sammy Finkelman (8e756e)

  143. A defender of Moore, Alabama State Auditor Jim Ziegler, claims that Kayla Kisor was one of these young women he dated in 1979.

    Now that may be completely unfounded. He certainly can’t be an original source – I mean even if he claimed personal knowledge, and it’s not clear on what he bases that assertion, that would not be something to rely on if that was all.

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/alabama-state-auditor-defends-roy-moore-against-sexual-allegations-invokes-mary-and-joseph/article/2640217

    To make Mary a teenager, he’s willing to disregard Christian theology and go back to the correct meaning of almah, in the verse that Saul/Paul claimed was a prediction. Because if it means teenager it doesn’t mean virgin.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e756e)

  144. All kidding aside, Allred sticking her nose in and the lectures the Alabama electorate is getting from DC is practically guaranteed to produce a Roy Moore victory.

    Bingo!

    nk (dbc370)

  145. To make Mary a teenager, he’s willing to disregard Christian theology

    Apparently, according to Jonah Goldberg, it even has a name: the psilanthropist heresy.

    Jonah, as usual, is spot on:

    This is the unavoidable consequence of a movement that is in the process of replacing conservative principles and arguments with the new lodestars of “fighting” and “winning.” Fighting and winning are amoral concepts, embraced equally by freedom fighters and totalitarians alike. Serious thinking begins with asking, “What are we fighting for?” “What are we trying to win?” But the distinctions don’t end there. “What are we willing to do for the sake of winning?” “What means will we tolerate to achieve our ends?”

    But even raising such questions is the stuff of cucks and swamp-dwellers. We are becoming the Party of Wales, and the “butthurt” of those we hate is its own reward.

    Dave (445e97)

  146. Seeing as she was foretold in the old testament, Jonas should know better:
    https://www.quora.com/How-old-was-Mary-mother-of-Jesus-when-she-gave-birth-to-Jesus

    narciso (d1f714)

  147. that eyeliner reminds me of that weirdo tranny kid eyeliner in that godawful trainwreck tv version of “The Mist” from guess who?

    yup that was a Harvey Weinstein show

    coincidence? not a goddamn chance

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  148. This is the unavoidable consequence of a movement that is in the process of replacing conservative principles and arguments with the new lodestars of “fighting” and “winning.”

    Jonah means as to how unprincipled and unscrupulous nevertrump trash like himself and grand wizard Mitt Romney can do smear campaigns on people but if those people fight back it’s no fair

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  149. It’s all right with me that he’s disregarding some of Christian theology. Of course he may not even realize what he’s doing. Yes, he can make her any age, but unless he says the word almah means teenager and not virgin, he has no basis for saying anything at all about Mary’s age, and so has no precedent from that. Now the verse has nothing to do anyway with Mary, but with someone who lived in the time of Isaiah, probably the mother of King Hezekiah, but that can be put aside for the moment.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e756e)

  150. Doug Jones will fight for Mary’s right to abort her unwanted fetus unlike Roy Moore who believes that LIFE begins at immaculate conception

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  151. Nelson describes her first encounters when she was 15 years old working as a waitress at a local restaurant after school.

    She said Moore, DA of Etowah County, was a regular customer where he would often pull the ends of her hair as she passed by and complimented the young girl’s looks.

    Nelson went on, describing another incident in which Moore signed a school yearbook of hers when she was 16.

    “He wrote in my yearbook as follows: ‘To a sweeter more beautiful girl, I could not say merry christmas, Christmas, 1977, Love Roy Moore, old hickory house. Roy Moore, DA.’”

    She said after the incident, Moore had offered to drive Nelson home after work, during which she alleges he forced himself on Nelson and groped her in a locked car.

    She said that Moore eventually gave up, and told her, “You’re just a child and he said I’m the district attorney if you tell anyone about this no one will ever believe you.”

    Pretty neat trick of Ol’ Judge Roy. He as already DA of Etowah County and a regular customer at the Olde Hickory House restaurant when he first met Nelson when she was 15. While he was still a student at the University of Alabama Law School in Tuscaloosa, 120 miles from Gadsden. He didn’t graduate until 1977, just a few months before he signed her yearbook. And he was just a prosecutor. And he never was anything more than a prosecutor.

    But I’m supposed to believe that he was locally famous as a very powerful man.

    I want to see how Allred keeps this tissue of lies together.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  152. Do you know who I am?

    Hold that thought.

    Pinandpuller (9a7f02)

  153. Doug Jones will fight for Mary’s right to abort her unwanted fetus unlike Roy Moore who believes that LIFE begins at immaculate conception
    happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/13/2017 @ 10:23 pm

    Doug Jones will push Mary off a donkey if you just give him a chance.

    Pinandpuller (9a7f02)

  154. good work Mr. 57

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  155. I think Mr Steve57 has what it takes to test out of law school. I bet he can do better than Anthony Villarugosa or however you spell that.

    Pinandpuller (9a7f02)

  156. i’m very impressed with his tenacity and his perspicacity

    this latest honey boo boo’s a tawdry trainwreck and a filthy liar to boot

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  157. One thing I see in Roy Moores’s favor is none of these girl’s dogs got killed and that’s what happened three quarters thru almost every Lifetime Movie like this. That’s called a tell.

    Pinandpuller (9a7f02)

  158. I somehow feel like I’m Steve Vai and mr happyfeet is Ralph Macchio and we are at a Crossroads

    Duel

    Pinandpuller (9a7f02)

  159. Must be Ladies’ Nite In Buffalo.

    Pinandpuller (9a7f02)

  160. yes yes we should be a subplot in Stranger Things 3

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  161. Thanks, but the work isn’t really that good. Obviously this accuser could have been 15 when Moore started eating there after graduating and getting the ADA job and turned 16 before he signed her yearbook. Still, that’s an awfully compressed time frame for some guy just out of law school to gain a reputation as a very powerful man. Depending on how long it took for him to land the job after graduating in Spring/early Summer we’re looking at, what, three months to get the reputation?

    But that would also mean she got the yearbook while she was still 15 because you get those toward the end of the school year. Nobody gets yearbooks between the start of the school year and Christmas unless Alabama is a lot more strange than I imagined. And who brings them to work at all, let alone the following Christmas? That’s just weird.

    So is an adult signing one, of course. But notice the message isn’t addressed to anyone. No name, just a generic message. If he had the hots for her like Beverly Young Nelson says he did, coming in every night and trying to get her attention, wouldn’t he at least know her name and make the message more personal?

    And then who would keep a yearbook after her would=be rapist signed it? Ladies, weigh in; would you have treasured it all these years? How do we even know it’s her book? H3ll, if it was she still had a couple of years left to go before she graduated. Plenty of time to get another one.

    Of course, on the other hand Moore has said he doesn’t know the woman or the restaurant. Assuming the message and signature are genuine that looks like evidence he’s lying on both counts. On the other other hand, maybe he wasn’t the regular she claims he was. If I had to recall every restaurant my parents took me to on occasion 40 years ago when I was a teenager I sure couldn’t do it. And again, if he knew her why didn’t he address the message to her?

    My primary evidence Beverly Young Nelson is peddling a lie, though, is Gloria Allred.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  162. And again, if he knew her why didn’t he address the message to her?

    The format of what he wrote gibes with my recollection of how people signed yearbooks when I was in high school (1976-80).

    People wrote stuff like “To a great friend…” or “To a guy who…”. Since the owner of the yearbook was obvious (it was *their* yearbook, and they were giving it to you to sign) addressing the owner by name was unnecessary. Since many people signed the same page, it would also look quite repetitive and awkward.

    The fact that she had her yearbook at Christmas time, at work, and gave it to an old lech to sign, are admittedly odd. One possibility (purely speculation) is that he asked her to bring it in and show it to him, and when she did, he signed it.

    Dave (445e97)

  163. For the sake of argument, Dave, that’s how you signed yearbooks circa ’76-’80. Moore was signing them last in the late ’50s/early ’60s. Something like that.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  164. A man can be seen as “big” if he makes a lot of noise around centers of power. Gets the ink. Doesn’t have to actually accomplish a lot, if he’s noisier than his colleagues.

    Richard Aubrey (0d7df4)

  165. My primary evidence Beverly Young Nelson is peddling a lie, though, is Gloria Allred.
    Steve57 (0b1dac) — 11/14/2017 @ 1:21 am

    Were there other entries in the yearbook that said

    To Beverly, a cute chick who will someday look like Shirley McClain, Merry Christmas! Well we survived Civics, how about that? Love Suzie Snodgrass ’77!!!

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  166. As a powerful DA he could subpoena any yearbook in that county.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  167. 168. Steve57 (0b1dac) — 11/14/2017 @ 1:21 am

    If he had the hots for her like Beverly Young Nelson says he did, coming in every night and trying to get her attention, wouldn’t he at least know her name and make the message more personal?

    Well, he does say, somewhat ungrammatically, that there could not be a sweeter and more beautiful girl, and it is signed “Love,”

    And then who would keep a yearbook after her would=be rapist signed it? Ladies, weigh in; would you have treasured it all these years?

    Well, that’s not the on;y person who signed the yearbook.

    But it is hard to see how someone who could sign that, and note in the signature that he’s the DA (which he isn’t exactly) would attempt to rape her.

    Doesn’t he realize he would lose her vote?

    And she might tell other people not to vote for him too.

    While, the other way, she might volunteer in his campaign. It’s not like he was going to be the candidate of some machine.

    How do we even know it’s her book?

    I think we’ve got Gloria Allred’s word for that. If it’s hers, there ought to be some indication. Somebody would have used her name, or used a description that applied only or almost only, to her. Or they would just be all her friends and not somebody else’s. But I don’t think we saw any other part of the book.

    H3ll, if it was she still had a couple of years left to go before she graduated. Plenty of time to get another one.

    Could be that year. What’s her date of birth? She might have gotten all of her co-workers to sign it. Everybody she knew. Maybe she wanted to fill it up. If it is hers.

    169. Dave (445e97) — 11/14/2017 @ 2:37 am

    People wrote stuff like “To a great friend…” or “To a guy who…”. Since the owner of the yearbook was obvious (it was *their* yearbook, and they were giving it to you to sign) addressing the owner by name was unnecessary.

    Also, there’s no reason for him to have known her name, and even if he did, he didn’t need to use it to order anything.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e756e)

  168. For many Republicans, voting for Roy Moore is the lesser of two evils. Voting for a Democrat being the greater.

    So, just how far are we now from… “I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and not lose any voters.”?

    noel (b4d580)

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