Patterico's Pontifications

8/22/2017

The Continuing Embarrassment of Political Correctness

Filed under: General — Dana @ 8:29 pm

[guest post by Dana]

It has been said before that it is a stupid time to be alive. This certainly bolsters the claim:

ESPN confirmed Tuesday night that it had decided to pull an announcer from calling a University of Virginia football game because his name is Robert Lee. This Robert Lee is Asian.

“We collectively made the decision with Robert to switch games as the tragic events in Charlottesville were unfolding, simply because of the coincidence of his name. In that moment it felt right to all parties,” reads the ESPN statement posted at the popular Fox Sports college-football blog Outkick the Coverage.

They were worried about a backlash from the audience. Over the name a sports announcer. Let that sink in.

ESPN also said: “It’s a shame that this is even a topic of conversation and we regret that who calls play by play for a football game has become an issue.”

On this, I agree with ESPN: it is indeed a crying shame that this is even a topic of conversation. Just not in the way they think it is.

(Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.)

–Dana

221 Responses to “The Continuing Embarrassment of Political Correctness”

  1. Are people just really bored these days? Because that’s the only answer that makes sense to me.

    Dana (023079)

  2. Poe’s Law? It’s impossible to tell a genuine Leftie from a parody of one?

    nk (dbc370)

  3. I hope the Art Institute doesn’t take down the paintings by Robert E. Noir.

    nk (dbc370)

  4. They should reverse course and double down – keep Robert Lee plus bring in ESPN lifer Bob A. Ley as another guy in the booth

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  5. What’s funny is, that by assuming fans would be upset by having “Robert Lee” announce the game, by default also assumes that fans are incapable of distinguishing between two men who are not remotely related to one another in any way, shape or form other than sharing a name. ESPN’s insult to fans is made even worse when one considers that “Lee” is one of the most popular Chinese surnames in America.

    Why does ESPN think their fans are so stupid? Why would sports fans want anything to do with an entity that thinks so lowly of them?

    Dana (023079)

  6. ESPN is battling other audience demons these days. Why invite another headache. They have a business to run.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  7. In other news, ESPN has signed Joe “Gulag” Stalin to a five-year announcing gig.

    Red state and National review have greeted the new Announcer with cheers.

    rcocean (a72eb2)

  8. Dana, who else puts up with their all kaeoernick all the time garbage, and mucharl SMS and tributes to the GMT Bruce jenner

    narciso (d1f714)

  9. When I watch ESPN, I don’t want to be lectured about left wing morality. That’s one reason I like sports. I wouldn’t have cared as much about Kaepernick but for all the time the sports cable gave to telling me how I should not be critical.

    AZ Bob (f7a491)

  10. Iowahawk has the best take so far:

    “We have achieved the Woke Singularity.”

    Do those doing it even realize that pointing out that he’s Asian is as stupid as pulling him the first place? A man’s name is his name and if it was Adolf Schicklegruber announcing a dreidel-spinning contest it would matter not a whit.

    harkin (536957)

  11. USA Today tries to put the most ESPN-positive spin on the whole thing, blaming Clay Travis for making the story into a big incident:

    This would never have been an issue at all, except for the fact that it was leaked to Clay Travis of Outkick the Coverage, who frequently critiques ESPN and has accused the company of having a liberal bias.

    Travis wrote about it on his Web site Tuesday night and it exploded into a national story, with Travis appearing on Tucker Carlson’s Fox News program.

    It seems ESPN was hoping to shield their employee from any potential ridicule or embarrassment. Instead, they made a mountain out of a molehill and the entire thing has backfired spectacularly.

    Kind of the “And we would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren’t for you meddling kids!” line of defense here, as opposed to the article asking why ESPN has so little faith in their viewers that thay actually would get angry over an Asian-American announcer having a similar name to a Confederate general who’s the bad guy of the moment in certain progressive circles, but who also has been dead for 147 years.

    (Odds are ESPN doesn’t think the fans left to their own devices would care, but is worried one of the snarky SJWs at a site like Deadspin would notice Lee’s name and where the game is being held, and would make a mountain out of a molehill over that, by hitting ESPN for racial insensitivity. They’d be better off not caring what Deadspin or any other site that mixes politics and sports thinks about their announcer’s name or what game he’s calling, but since ESPN itself has gone all-in on mixing politics and sports, they couldn’t help but try to avoid something many of their own SJW show hosts would pounce on, if Robert Lee was calling the Virginia game for Fox Sports 1).

    John (e9989d)

  12. 11 – “(Odds are ESPN doesn’t think the fans left to their own devices would care, but is worried one of the snarky SJWs at a site like Deadspin would notice Lee’s name and where the game is being held, and would make a mountain out of a molehill over that, by hitting ESPN for racial insensitivity……)”

    I agree – Deadspin is like a feeder reactor of uninformed outrage and snark created for gleeful consumption by people without brains or backbones.

    My favorite Deadspin story ever:

    https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/donald-trump-is-going-to-get-his-ass-kicked-on-tuesday-1788618628

    harkin (536957)

  13. Back in the day, I worked there. The absurd management that came in as the place grew was obvious.

    In fact, Keith Olbermann led the charge for talent against some real fools who were desperately trying to reign them in so as not to allow them to shine and become too expensive. Yes. They were intentionally dumbing down individuals to save money and retain more control. Keith was, believe it or not, on the side of the Angels and most of the talent appreciated his fight, which was their fight.

    The PC came in with this new crowd of management, as well. Disney took it to new heights when they took over.

    Image uber substance became the order of the day and it remains so to this day. It’s pretty much the fate of any major/broad media company. Fox gave it a good fight, or more truthfully, Roger Ailes fought well. But, inevitably, it is now fallen into the staggering mediocrity we are witnessing.

    It is sooooooo telling that the excuse now being proffered (ESPN did this to “protect” the talent from difficulty) is as patrician as it gets: THEY know what is best. THEY are determined to not cause any friction. THEY are virtuous. We are to simply accept this as correct and normal. Nothing to see here. Nothing to note. Move along.

    And move along we shall.

    Ed from SFV (3400a5)

  14. Couldn’t he just use a pseudonym? Or could he call himself Bob, maybe? Does he have a Chinese name?

    It was probably easier just to avoid any association with Virginia, or that location, because one of the teams there is from the University of Virginia and he doesn’t lose any income.

    Sammy Finkelman (be83d5)

  15. Couldn’t he just use a pseudonym? Or could he call himself Bob, maybe? Does he have a Chinese name?
    Sammy Finkelman (be83d5) — 8/23/2017 @ 3:53 am

    –facepalm–

    felipe (b5e0f4)

  16. This “issue” has all the heft -slash- fundamentally amounts to being caught picking your nose on a local access cable channel. (And not even then eating the goober you’ve clawed out.)

    Q! (267694)

  17. Couldn’t he just use a pseudonym? Or could he call himself Bob, maybe? Does he have a Chinese name?

    503 Error. No server is available to handle this request. They all melted down.

    nk (dbc370)

  18. When will ESPN answer for its racism? When do the boycotts begin?

    Dana (023079)

  19. i wonder but that it’s gonna take an espn level of stupid like this to help the fascists pivot back to a semblance of sanity

    and frankly we’re better off with them kaepertwatting around like halfwits

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  20. Suppose the guy does the play by play as scheduled.

    After the game, there would be jokes. Late night comedy would grab hold of this and make jokes. There would be har de har comments all over twitter, the current last refuge of a scoundrel. I think ESPN was trying, like any good corporation, to avoid this mockery, and not acting out of PC. Unfortunately, they failed. And Mr. Lee is subject to all the embarrassment and Twitter nuttery ESPN was trying to avoid.

    The real fault here isn’t ESPN, but whoever chose to leak the “great story”. Because all of this is symbolizes today’s great morass of stupid.

    Mr. Lee will be assigned games on the west coast in the future, and will probably change his name.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  21. No appalled they are a stupid and evil corporation, but they provide the circus portion poorly.

    narciso (d1f714)

  22. Why would he change his name on the West Coast? That’s like gold out there, but I think concussion phobia scares a lot of Asian Amercans out of the game

    urbanleftbehind (a5cec7)

  23. I think ESPN was trying, like any good corporation, to avoid this mockery, and not acting out of PC.

    No they weren’t, they’re leftist idiots who believe their listeners are so stupid as to believe an announcer is a confederate who has been dead almost 150 years. Yeah, they thought people would be “confused”. My a$$.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  24. As a wit on another blog said, “why couldn’t there have been a confederate general named Stephan A. Smith.”

    Ipso Fatso (7e1c8e)

  25. narciso:

    You talk just like a Bernie-bot.

    Corporations are risk averse. They live to make money, and are petrified that anything that brings the mobs of derision upon them will get in the way of that. The mind of an executive says, why give the masses cheap irony to feast on? And why potentially damage the viability of an asset?

    Frankly, given the massive flight from cable, ESPN must be in a state of constant terror right now. And I don’t think they can use the NYT/WaPo strategy of TrumpFearOutrage to bring eyeballs to their content. (Honestly, given the age of people who watch cable, a MAGA approach might work better.)

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  26. This will be broached again in November sweeps, but this time with a statue pull down by a suddenly native American character, book it

    urbanleftbehind (a5cec7)

  27. Here two Asian-Americans are caught tearing down the statue of a Southern Colonel.

    https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-yxxKqr-GxD0/WZ2BspBPWEI/AAAAAAABkcg/mHnNLmqzinUoauCaNW7UIbd-Gcwx07PPQCLcBGAs/s1600/colonel2.jpg

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  28. No appalled I understand corporation are a tool a conveyance to accomplish certain goals. Espn increasingly forgets that profit is their motive and entertainment the means

    narciso (d1f714)

  29. @23 & 28 – fwiw, Appalled, my read’s that you’ve got it right. Exactly right. And obviously right.

    Q! (267694)

  30. Like watsisname, the president of the NBA, you know … the skinny bald guy, said in the Donald T. Sterling (born Donald Tokowitz) case, “It’s now public”. And it’s more entertaining than any ESPN show.

    nk (dbc370)

  31. Corporations are risk averse. They live to make money, and are petrified that anything that brings the mobs of derision upon them will get in the way of that. The mind of an executive says, why give the masses cheap irony to feast on? And why potentially damage the viability of an asset?

    That’s true with most non-leftist businesses’. Not so much with Yahoo, Google, and I could go on naming names but I’m sure you can recall companies that make *political* statements which offend a good section of their customers just to do the usual leftist *virtue signaling*. There was some clown yesterday who owns a dental company I think in NY who urged people to turn their backs on Trump.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  32. Couldn’t he just use a pseudonym? Or could he call himself Bob, maybe? Does he have a Chinese name?

    There once was a quarterback by the name of Bob Lee. I think he played for the Vikings and maybe a season with the Rams. His nickname was “General Lee”. I can’t imagine what the forces of Political Correctness would do to him today.

    I’m reminded of a story arc in Hill Street Blues where JD La Rue was financially backing a comic with the unfortunate name of Vic Hitler.

    Chuck Bartowski (bc1c71)

  33. I dunno what kind of slant Appalled and Q! are trying to put on this, but the fact remains that ESPN got a chink in its public relations armor by trying to kowtow to the imagined prejudices of its audience.

    nk (dbc370)

  34. Appalled and Q! are both pretending that ESPN is a rational sports network and not a glorified SJW network. Their non-stop leftist agenda of promoting left wing causes such as Kaeperdink prove otherwise.

    Thou dost protest too much.

    NJRob (22982e)

  35. ESPN Democrat Party is battling other audience demons these days. Why invite another headache. They have a business country to run ruin.”

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 8/22/2017 @ 9:03 pm

    FIFY

    Colonel Haiku (15b793)

  36. It takes all kinds, nk. I used to frequent bars, good for killing brain cells, but have found this site more cost effective.

    To take the bar analogy a little further, some commentators provide the the base alcohol, others the premium spirits; while a select few provide things like garnish, bitters, and the occasional splash of cold water. Once in a while the barkeep must contend with a bad lemon, but that is par for the course. We know who we are.

    felipe (b5e0f4)

  37. Colonel Haiku (15b793) — 8/23/2017 @ 7:40 am

    Outstanding, Colonel.

    felipe (b5e0f4)

  38. Jim crow was a terrible blot on our nation, even more than slavery in someway because it happened after the momentous sacrifice of the civil war, but lets get a grip.

    narciso (d1f714)

  39. nk:

    Since the risk avoidance was publicized, there was no good answer for ESPN. Also, there was no good way to anticipate, when the schedules were set up, that this would somehow be a problem.

    ESPN tried to avoid a situation in a way that hurt nobody. In the world of twitter and non-stop partisan resentment, avoiding a situation is seen as some sort of moral failure.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  40. Warming up in the bullpen on Robert Lee’s behalf, but maybe with much less fervor (and bonus “catnip” imagery for HF): http://www.yahoo.com/news/asian-american-groups-want-elaine-152956553.html

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  41. Hey, felipe… Happy Hump Day!

    Colonel Haiku (15b793)

  42. Let’s be honest and call this what it really is. A fight over the removal of DEMOCRAT memorials. Instead of talking about Confederate memorials and Confederate statues let’s refer to it as “democrat” memorials and “democrat” statues.
    The democrats controlled the southern states after the civil war, or, at least after reconstruction. These statues were placed by the democrat politicians during the time they were in power. So, to be fair and honest, they are democrat statues. Every time someone talks about removing some Confederate General, say, “Oh, the democrat statue?” Maybe that stop this nonsense.

    Jim (a9b7c7)

  43. #37 NJRob:

    At some point, ESPN decided to go full sjw to attract Millennials. Since many of the execs live in the California bubble, that seemed like a good idea. But Millennials don’t want to pay for cable, so it was a poor business plan, because the 50 year old guy who likes to watch sports and sports talk has probably been forever alienated, and now might just cut his cable.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  44. Jim @ 45. I said pretty much the same thing at another site and a commenter told me it was not true and called Abraham Lincoln the first RINO. It’s not only the Democrats who are trying to revise history, it’s also neo-Republicans who were formerly Southern Democrats.

    nk (dbc370)

  45. Quarterback Bob Lee played 14 seasons in the NFL, his daughter, Jenna, has been a daytime regular host on FOX NEWS for years.

    ropelight (bf891a)

  46. Appalled @ 46. If you are over 50 and watch ESPN, you will never lose that belly fat.

    nk (dbc370)

  47. 49 —

    I will lose it jogging over to the waffle house for some hashbrowns.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  48. Sammy, Appalled, and Q, no soup for you.

    ropelight (bf891a)

  49. Back to the life in ol’ Virginnie, my wife she said to me
    “Colonel, quick, come see, there goes teh Robert Lee”
    Now I don’t mind Max Kellerman, cuz my nephew he produces his show
    Teh score’s what ya need, and they can shove teh rest,
    But they should never have taken the very best

    Teh Night They Drove Their Ratings Down
    And all teh pundits were yakkin’
    Teh Night They Drove Their Ratings Down
    Like some ducks they were quackin’
    They went quack qa-qa-qa-quack quack quack quack quack quack quack qa quack quack

    Colonel Haiku (15b793)

  50. Thats,ridiculous, Abe may not have been as resolute an abolitionist as Seward, what site was this?

    narciso (457abb)

  51. It was a commenter, so I won’t defame the site.

    nk (dbc370)

  52. I think it demonstrates, though, that the IQ curve really is a normal distribution.

    nk (dbc370)

  53. if you’re paying for cable tv you’re part of the problem and you need to repent

    there’s just no way to sugarcoat it booba

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  54. 45. Jim (a9b7c7) — 8/23/2017 @ 8:04 am

    Let’s be honest and call this what it really is. A fight over the removal of DEMOCRAT memorials. Instead of talking about Confederate memorials and Confederate statues let’s refer to it as “democrat” memorials and “democrat” statues.
    The democrats controlled the southern states after the civil war, or, at least after reconstruction….

    And one thing that asked New York’s mayor DeBlasio about was what about the portrait of former New York State Governor Horatio Seymour in City Hall.

    DeBlasio claimed never to have heard of him. He was the Democratic nominee for president in 1868.

    They’re now saying his claim to fame is a campaign slogan (which I never heard of, but that that would be a slogan makes sense given what I know of the historical context.)

    “This is a White Man’s Country; Let White Men Rule.”

    Explanation: It was the Republicans who were for universal male suffrage. They had passed the 14th amendment, which became effective July 9, 1868, but that merely penalized states
    that didn’t give all male inhabitants who were citizens the right to vote (except for pariipation in rebellion) They were now pushing for a 15th amendment to prohibit the denial or abridgement of the right to vote on grounds of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/de-blasio-pols-clash-statues-symbolizing-hate-nyc-article-1.3433680

    http://nypost.com/2017/08/22/de-blasio-opens-historical-can-of-worms-faces-barrage-of-monument-questions

    Sammy Finkelman (da4ed9)

  55. Maybe they were racist to hire him in the first place?

    AZ Bob (f7a491)

  56. I think that ESPN did it just to jump on the outrage train. See how woke we are??

    Patricia (5fc097)

  57. We should all get up every morning and apologize for being white then write a $1,000 daily check to SPLC for our reparations. That’s just for starters.

    http://moonbattery.com/graphics/no-debt.jpg

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  58. The Agony and the Ecstasy over politically correct phrases needs a break. Bull in bone China shop clears the deck…
    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/aug/22/fact-checking-president-donald-trumps-campaign-ral/

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  59. I dont know which is more offensive…speech police at a party or the guy who takes a dump in the community punch bowl..

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  60. 43..

    Chou should attend every Donald event for maximum spousal revenge!!

    Let McConnell stand tall for Asian Power!

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  61. A somewhat similar situation arose back in the summer of 2015. Bubba Watson (pro golfer and proud owner of The General Lee, the ’69 Dodge Charger Bo and Luke drove in The Dukes of Hazzard) had just shot a 68 at the Greenbrier Classic and was being interviewed by ESPN.

    Asked about the Confederate Battle Flag that adorned his famous car’s roof, Bubba explained, somewhat sheepishly, he “didn’t want to offend anybody” so he was going to paint over the Dixie Cross and replace it with the American flag. He reasoned “The car is American history, so why not the American flag?”

    Charles E Cook writing in the ‘Nation Review’ responded by noting, “Thus was an admirable attempt to rid Southern governments of insidious and inappropriate symbolism confirmed to have spun dangerously out of control.”

    Cook went on to point out that removing Confederate regalia from various official government sites was up to representatives elected by the affected voters, but that when such nostrums ventured into the realm of pressure on individuals and private property alarm bells rang out in warning.

    Cook then answered Bubba’s question, “…so why not the American flag?” “Because The General Lee is a piece of American history and civilized people do not vandalize their antiques.”

    ropelight (bf891a)

  62. @63 – Speaking of which, I watched Trump last night (no excuse but pure masochism, I suppose), and saw at one point towards the middle (?) his several remarks mocking CNN for taking down the live feed (something along the lines of “You see those red “live” lights going off … CNN [blah blah blah] …?”) I was watching a live internet feed & don’t get cable. And not that I’d blame any outfit for opting out of broadcasting the ramblin’ ranter live &/or unedited . . . But ..

    Did CNN in fact have the effrontery not to give Trump live interrupted coverage for his commercial/rally? And did Fox mirror such infamy, or were they loyal patriots, clearing the decks for his [fill in the appropriate superlative or other expression]?

    If anyone knows. Obliged, in advance.

    Q! (267694)

  63. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/22/us/politics/mitch-mcconnell-trump.html?mcubz=0

    ….What was once an uneasy governing alliance has curdled into a feud of mutual resentment and sometimes outright hostility, complicated by the position of Mr. McConnell’s wife, Elaine L. Chao, in Mr. Trump’s cabinet, according to more than a dozen people briefed on their imperiled partnership. Angry phone calls and private badmouthing have devolved into open conflict, with the president threatening to oppose Republican senators who cross him, and Mr. McConnell mobilizing to their defense….

    …While maintaining a pose of public reserve, Mr. McConnell expressed horror to advisers last week after Mr. Trump’s comments equating white supremacists in Charlottesville, Va., with protesters who rallied against them. Mr. Trump’s most explosive remarks came at a news conference in Manhattan, where he stood beside Ms. Chao, the transportation secretary. (Ms. Chao, deflecting a question about the tensions between her husband and the president she serves, told reporters, “I stand by my man — both of them.”)

    Sammy Finkelman (da4ed9)

  64. Ben, I think she’s a well compensated Beard, so yes, she could start straying but it wouldnt really mess with Mitch the other B—- (Daniels was the original M t B, if you were an Indiana state employee) all that much.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  65. In his defense in Phoenix, Donald Trump left out two key sentences, which he didn’t quote. So he knows what he said wrong. Although he didn’t say or mean what people are misrepresenting him to have said.

    Sammy Finkelman (da4ed9)

  66. @67 [whoops: … Trump live Uninterrupted coverage … apologies]

    Q! (267694)

  67. Trump left out the statement he made that there were “very fine people” on both sides in Charlottesville, which I think was an honest mistake. It just wasn’t true there, although that might be true about the statue issue in general. This was a rally that consisted only of people from extremists groups. So it came out or he made to say, that white supremacists, and so called white nationalists, and KKK members and neo-Nazis were fine people.

    And then he said there was blame or there was violence on both sides. That’s something that’s true, but the major media maybe thinks it is not true, but it’s also wrong because there was a murderer on only one of the sides, and another person was severely attacked.

    One side maybe poses a greater danger to liberty but the other side has a lower threshold of violence, and many of those on that side don’t believe in the very concept of right and wrong as commonly understood, and poses a greater danger to individuals.

    One goes after what they deem to be thought leaders, and police, and maybe what they deem threats (including maybe reporters) or what they want to pretend to be threats, while the other side goes after the grass roots – anyone on the other side.

    Sammy Finkelman (da4ed9)

  68. @38. =Haiku!= Gesundheit!

    Forget concussions.

    Oh– wait.

    “Never mind what I told you. I’m telling you!” – Captain Morton [James Cagney] ‘Mister Roberts’ 1955

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  69. @40. “He’s crazy, Lou. He builds toy airplanes.” – Frank Towns [James Stewart] ‘Flight Of he Phoenix’ 1965

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  70. Counterpoint: “The General Lee is a piece of American history metal and civilized people do not vandalize their antiques enslave other human beings.”

    Leviticus (efada1)

  71. Breaking– as onlookers cheer, workers cover statue of Traitor Lee statue in Charlottesville with big, black tarp.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  72. Yes, Happy Hump Day!

    felipe (b5e0f4)

  73. I never watched more than snatches of that show. Double entendre intended.

    nk (dbc370)

  74. Yes they wee moinshiners who were up against a corrupt local authority, boss Hogg could fit into any locality, north or south.

    narciso (d1f714)

  75. old times there are not forgotten

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  76. 75.Counterpoint: “The General Lee is a piece of American history metal and civilized people do not vandalize their antiques enslave other human beings.”
    Leviticus (efada1) — 8/23/2017 @ 10:17 am

    A valid counterpoint. Except all through civilization people have enslaved others so that is quite, quite wrong. In a historical perspective not having slavery is rather modern and most civilized societies on all continents and of all races have had slaves. Not to mention there is still slavery in parts of the world and I submit if one is truly bothered that is where one should direct his efforts. But they wouldn’t do that would they? Cause it’s dangerous. If they rip down part of American history and art which they have no right to since they don’t even own it, they get a scholarship here. Try that where they actually practice slavery today and tell me how it works out for ya. They’re cowards.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  77. 80.old times there are not forgotten

    Look away;
    It’s okay;
    Such decay;
    Dixieland.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  78. And that show had a chill version of David Clarke as Sheriff in the next County http://dukesofhazzard.wikia.com/wiki/Edward_Thomas_Little.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  79. 82, that reminds me of the opening scenes of The Undefeated (1969), when the defeated confederates pass by singing Dixie versus a union marching hymn. That movie, which ended up taking John Wayne to the Mexican border to battle the French occupiers over horses stolen by a not-quite out Rock Hudson had a lot to please everybody.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  80. You communists certainly love to paint your enemies with the most brilliant shade of hate possible. I realize it comes in handy when dehumanizing your opponents. You know neither Robert E. Lee not the Confederacy were “traitors”. They were *Rebels* hence that’s what they were called. They were rebelling against the federal government. Treason is something far different. Now an extremist full of hate for people he didn’t even know in a time he cannot possibly understand may call him a traitor but I think that’s short sighted and narrow minded. Especially when Lee helped with the post war healing a great deal. Forgetting that way back in the day of actually sovereign states the federal government was nothing compared to the loyalty one was supposed to have for his state, which was actually his country.

    When you are finished assassinating the entire citizenry of the Southern U.S. who will the commies turn on then? I bet it’s the NRA. Let’s watch and see. The NRA will be declared *racist* and it’s leaders and members vilified in the media etc. Then the *gun* purge. Like the *statue* purge it is necessary in the name of virtue. Look how virtuous the leftists are!

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  81. Hoagie: ‘Commies ‘ is a little facile like me calling you a horrible deplorable.

    Meat-axe meet scalpel.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  82. @Leviticus: Countercounter points:

    1) As Hoagie noted, civilized people have nearly always enslaved others.
    2) A flag on an antique car is not an enslavement of anyone.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  83. No has a Connie, he fancies himself an anarchist but they always end up like the board of the Sirius cybernetic corporation, after the revolution.

    narciso (d1f714)

  84. @Hoagie: The NRA will be declared *racist* and it’s leaders and members vilified in the media etc.

    You’re way behind. The NRA has already been equated with white supremacist more times than I can count. My link is from July 29 of this year, by that fringe nobody Bill Moyers.

    The offensive word in the NRA ad he discusses is “they”. We All Know What That Means.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  85. “1) As Hoagie noted, civilized people have nearly always enslaved others.”

    – Frederick

    Hoagie (deftly) noted that “all through civilization people have enslaved others” – omitting the key modifier, “civilized.” In my opinion, any culture or society that enslaves human beings is not and cannot be “civilized.”

    Leviticus (efada1)

  86. “They were rebelling against the federal government. Treason is something far different. ”

    – Hoagie

    No, it’s not. They were waging war against the federal government, and waging war against the federal government is the literal definition of treason. You have a warped understanding of treason and traitors, applying the label to those who oppose Donald Trump through the political process, but refusing to apply it to those who actually took up arms against the federal government.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  87. Frequently heard..”he’s not a politician”
    http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/23/politics/donald-trump-arizona/

    Free money Democrats holding Trumps shifty feet to the fire of funding sounds like a zip-line passing over Trumps legion of burnt bridges.

    Shame on them for playing politics with a child.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  88. “I think I can’t do much better, right?”

    DIRECT QUOTE!

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  89. Except those protesters bear the standard of an ideology that has killed 100 million in that last century. The demon that goes back to the jacobin terror.

    narciso (f1e760)

  90. In my opinion, any culture or society that enslaves human beings is not and cannot be “civilized.

    Well, that would cut Ancient Rome and Greece from the rolls of civilized nations. Pretty hard to argue for that position.

    Chuck Bartowski (bc1c71)

  91. Is this too facile for the Enablers?

    Protects the addict from the natural consequences of his behavior
    Keeps secrets about the addict’s behavior from others in order to keep peace
    Makes excuses for the addict’s behavior (with teachers, friends, legal authorities, employers, and other family members)

    Bails the addict out of trouble (pays debts, fixes tickets, hires lawyers, and provides jobs)

    Blames others for the addicted person’s behaviors (friends, teachers, employers, family, and self)
    Sees “the problem” as the result of something else (shyness, adolescence, loneliness, broken home, ADHD, or another illness)

    Avoids the addict in order to keep peace (out of sight, out of mind)

    Gives money that is undeserved or unearned

    Attempts to control that which is not within the enabler’s ability to control (plans activities, chooses friends, and gets jobs)

    Makes threats that have no follow-through or consistency

    “Care takes” the addicted person by doing what she is expected to do for herself

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  92. what are you talking about

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  93. “Well, that would cut Ancient Rome and Greece from the rolls of civilized nations. Pretty hard to argue for that position.”

    – Chuck Bartowski

    You seem to be begging the question.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  94. Is it really that hard to argue that Ancient Rome and Greece were not “civilized,” as we now understand the word?

    Leviticus (efada1)

  95. @Leviticus:Is it really that hard to argue that Ancient Rome and Greece were not “civilized,” as we now understand the word?

    It’s not hard at all. All you have to do is redefine “civilized” to match your current value system in 2017, without telling anyone what that you did so or what your new definition entails.

    It’s much easier to “argue” that way than to make a real argument.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  96. @Leviticus: Civilized is about people who live in cities, as opposed to hunter-gatherers or pastoralists. It is primarily a descriptive term. If you want to make it your own private value judgment and demand that all agree with you without knowing what they are agreeing to, well no one is stopping you from using words any way you want or making any demands on others.

    But it would be foolish to expect everyone else to fall for it every time.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  97. Oh, sorry. Yeah, I meant we can actually look at the past with a critical eye, instead of assuming that as long as enough people did it back then it was okay back then. My bad for not stating that expressly from the outset.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  98. And it’s our current value system, right? Yours, mine, and everyone else’s.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  99. “Civilized is about people who live in cities, as opposed to hunter-gatherers or pastoralists.”

    – Frederick

    You think that’s how Charles Cook was using the term, in his statement about the General Lee?

    Leviticus (efada1)

  100. @Leviticus:I meant we can actually look at the past with a critical eye instead of assuming that as long as enough people did it back then it was okay back then.

    Not one person here was doing that. Not one person here said nothing was wrong with slavery back then. Not one.

    But you go right ahead and lie anyway. That;s another way to “argue”, make arguments for other people and then triumphantly refute them. Easier than a real argument.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  101. civilized

    “adjective
    1.
    having an advanced or humane culture, society, etc.
    2.
    polite; well-bred; refined.”

    Leviticus (efada1)

  102. You pick a definition of civilized you want to use, Frederick, and then we can debate whether or not Ancient Rome and Greece and their slaveholding lived up to that definition.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  103. @Leviticus: Yours, mine, and everyone else’s.

    Civilized people don’t eat meat.

    Civilized people don’t oppose gay marriage.

    See what I mean? You can’t let people appropriate words.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  104. Civilized people do not desecrate graves or monuments to the dead.

    nk (dbc370)

  105. Those are both perfectly arguable positions. Not right or wrong, just arguable. Reasonable people could hold or oppose such positions. I started this off by stating an opinion: “any culture or society that enslaves human beings is not and cannot be “civilized.”

    You disagreed with the opinion, stating that Ancient Rome and Greece were slave-holding societies. I said that you were begging the question, assuming that they were civilized. Do you want to defend those societies as civilized, or continue to assume it?

    Leviticus (efada1)

  106. nk presents another arguable position.

    America takes its own “civilized” nature for granted. This is a huge problem. We refuse to cast a critical eye on our own history.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  107. @Leviticus: You disagreed with the opinion, stating that Ancient Rome and Greece were slave-holding societies. I said that you were begging the question, assuming that they were civilized.

    You’re the one begging the question by turning “civilized” into your own private value judgment.

    Your definition of “civilized” excludes Great Zimbabwe and other African civilizations. The white supremacist government of Rhodesia would have approved.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  108. @Leviticus:We refuse to cast a critical eye on our own history.

    There aren’t whole college departments devoted to that sort of enterprise. Oh no.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  109. Not everything about civilization is good. It’s not the Garden of Eden. It has a lot of duds. Abstract art, for example. Or the works of Jean Paul Sartre.

    nk (dbc370)

  110. I’m not begging any question. I’m making an express statement of my position.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  111. @Leviticus: I’m making an express statement of my position.

    No you’re not.

    Do civilized people have capital punishment?

    Do civilized people lack a national health insurance system?

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  112. We’re arguing about the definition of “civilized.” How would you guys define the term?

    Leviticus (efada1)

  113. the fascist democrats are coercing failmericans into a state of greater servility to the failmerican government every year

    and lots of harvardtrash twats like John Roberts and war hero filth like John McCain are enthusiastically helping

    this is not optimal

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  114. I don’t know, Frederick. I think those are much more difficult questions than “do civilized people legally condone human slavery”?

    I think that’s an easy question.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  115. God I love semantics but not everyone understands the term. Ironic eh?

    Ben burn (03c337)

  116. not wasting a bullet on a journalist is politically correct and conservative

    mg (31009b)

  117. There is a big difference between necessary conditions and sufficient conditions.

    Is it necessary for a person to reject human slavery to be “civilized”? Yes.

    Is it sufficient for a person to reject human slavery to be “civilized”? No.

    I’m making an express statement of my position.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  118. @Leviticus:How would you guys define the term?

    A culture typified by specialization of labor and large population concentrations. Not pastoralists or hunter-gatherers.

    Civilized people do all sorts of evil things. They do good things too. As do uncivilized people.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  119. Some who do understand pretend they don’t. Makes for uninteresting conversations.

    Ben burn (03c337)

  120. lol

    as if you’re in any danger of running into a journalist anymore

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  121. @Leviticus:

    Is it necessary, sufficient, or both for civilized people to outlaw capital punishment?

    Is it necessary, sufficient, or both for civilized people to have a national health insurance system?

    This is tiresome.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  122. I don’t know, Frederick. Tough questions. Are you actually taking the position that human slavery is an equally tough question?

    Leviticus (efada1)

  123. @Leviticus: Great Zimbabwe and other African cultures, that I call “civilized”: were they civilized, yes or no?

    See how easy it is to make someone look racist by playing definition games? Why don’t we all knock it off.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  124. @Leviticus:Are you actually taking the position that human slavery is an equally tough question?

    Have you stopped beating your wife?

    No one here has ever said a word in defense of slavery.

    What we have done instead, is attacked your motte-and-bailey game of Hunt the Racist.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  125. “not wasting a bullet on a journalist is politically correct and conservative..”

    Efficiency requires a cost-effective means for mass production. Some sort of has meets that criteria.

    Ben burn (03c337)

  126. Some sort of gas…..

    Ben burn (03c337)

  127. If they condoned human slavery, then they were not civilized cultures.

    This part is not difficult at all. You want to make it seem difficult, but it’s not. For all of our faults, we are a more advanced, more civilized society than we used to be, and the world will not end if we admit it.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  128. I haven’t brought up racism, Frederick, nor accused anyone of it, nor implied anything about it. I took issue with the statement of Charles Cook, and I said why. That’s all.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  129. @Leviticus: If you want to make “civilized” a synonym for “good”, do that. Good people are good. See how much we learned.

    For all of our faults, we are a more advanced, more civilized society than we used to be, and the world will not end if we admit it.

    Not one person here denied that ending slavery was a moral improvement. Not one.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  130. Cool. I never said anyone denied that ending slavery was a moral improvement. I’m stating affirmatively that ending slavery was a necessary (though not sufficient) precondition to America becoming a civilized country, and I’m also stating that America was not a civilized country before slavery was ended.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  131. “civilized

    “adjective
    1.
    having an advanced or humane culture, society, etc.”

    I’m not the one making up definitions, here, Frederick. If you want to make “civilized” a synonym for “industrialized,” do that.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  132. @Leviticus: I’m stating affirmatively that ending slavery was a necessary (though not sufficient) precondition to America becoming a civilized country, and I’m also stating that America was not a civilized country before slavery was ended.

    Noted. I am of the opinion that America remains uncivilized, since there are moral criteria of your great-grandchildren that we have yet to fulfill, and I’m not afraid to say it, that America is and remains an uncivilized country.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  133. @Leviticus:,i> advanced or humane

    Good thing these words have never changed their definitions over the years.

    If you want to make “civilized” a synonym for “industrialized,” do that.

    I never said anything of the sort. I explicitly included Great Zimbabwe as a “civilized” culture. You explicitly excluded them.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  134. Now we can argue about what “advanced” and “humane” mean. I’m pretty sure that no country that allows the eating of meat, or that maintains prison and armies, can possibly be “advanced” or “humane”, and so I say that America is and remains an uncivilized country.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  135. Civilization marches on; often in gray uniforms:

    Andersonville to Auschwitz in a mere 80 years.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  136. I agree, albeit for different reasons.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  137. Civilization is an interesting concept but it’s just a theory.

    How does a civilized society deal with the statistically omnipresent psychopath?

    Social Science underestimates their number as 3-5% of the population.

    A billion and a half Muslims equates to 100,000 jihadists. Do civilized persons only wish for half-measure?

    Does a civilized culture have the capacity to separate wheat from chaff?

    The psychopaths will take advantage of this ‘weakness for innocent life. How to keep our humanity while we protect our flank?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  138. (Agree with Frederick, that is)

    Leviticus (efada1)

  139. http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/450723/might-be-most-ridiculous-example-political-correctness-history-it-course-involves-espn

    Parents, if your last names are Grant, Meade, or Sherman, might I suggest Ulysses, George, or Bill as boy’s names? They’ll have an inside track at ESPN.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  140. Leviticus,

    I see America and most of the world throughout history as evolving civilizations. In general, I don’t think there is a dividing line we can point to and say “That was/is uncivilized.” and ” That was/is civilized. “

    DRJ (15874d)

  141. 9% approval rating for mcconnell is definitely politically correct.

    mg (31009b)

  142. 143-gfy

    mg (31009b)

  143. I’m also stating that America was not a civilized country before slavery was ended.

    Are you saying it was civilized after slavery was abolished but blacks still suffered terror and violence for another century from the Democratic voter control organization known as the KKK?

    harkin (74754c)

  144. It was generally civilized, with some important exceptions and qualifications.

    The question is anyway, what is uncivilized? Lawless? Bad laws? Bad ethics on the part of many in the population? Low level of technology?

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  145. 115 – “Not everything about civilization is good. It’s not the Garden of Eden. It has a lot of duds. Abstract art, for example. Or the works of Jean Paul Sartre.”

    So true – look at the United States during WW2.

    We dropped bombs both conventional and atomic on innocent people and incinerated/vaporized hundreds of thousands but if you compare how we treated the vast majority of the residents of the lands we conquered while defeating Germany and Japan we were Easter Bunnies by comparison. And when it was over we basically called it quits and went home until realization of the Soviet problem hit. Plus we contributed billions to rebuilding the countries which less than a decade earlier had vowed to destroy our way of life and had turned the vanquished of their operations into underfed, overworked slaves to serve the war machine until they expired.

    We had an old Japanese-American neighbor who had spent part of the war in a relocation camp. When people would tell him how sorry they were over what he and his family had experienced, his answer was philosophic:

    “Oh, it wasn’t so bad. It wasnt like we were captured by the Japanese”

    harkin (74754c)

  146. “Are you saying it was civilized after slavery was abolished but blacks still suffered terror and violence for another century from the Democratic voter control organization known as the KKK?”

    – harkin

    No. I stated that ending slavery was “necessary (though not sufficient) precondition to America becoming a civilized country.”

    I also said that I believe America remains an uncivilized country.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  147. “I see America and most of the world throughout history as evolving civilizations. In general, I don’t think there is a dividing line we can point to and say “That was/is uncivilized.” and ” That was/is civilized. “

    – DRJ

    I think that’s a reasonable viewpoint, DRJ. As you can tell from my comments above, though, I think there should be some disqualifications, if we’re going to use the word at all.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  148. There have certainly been barbaric people in history but does that necessarily mean the cultures that produced them were uncivilized? Maybe it does, depending on how much the society embraced them. But even the worst times reveal a flicker of civilized influence. For instance, it’s hard to condemn as completely uncivilized or barbaric the eras that produced Aristotle, Beethoven, Da Vinci, and Schindler.

    DRJ (15874d)

  149. What’s the over/under on how many people Robert E. Lee’s statue will shoot in Chicago this weekend?

    Deuce Frehley (7654f5)

  150. Clearly, there is no sane person left at ESPN.

    Just ask the last janitor to unplug everything and turn out the lights when they leave tonight.

    It’s over and done and they just need to pull the plug, turn out the lights and lock the door behind them as they leave.

    WarEagle82 (2b3d34)

  151. If they put up a statue of this Robert Lee in Charlottesville, will antifa demand it be destroyed?

    WarEagle82 (2b3d34)

  152. 146. I don’t think there is a dividing line we can point to and say “That was/is uncivilized.” and ” That was/is civilized. “

    I was reading Hegel one day, who read a lot of history, and he lamented that there have been situations where human flash was sold on open market. Well, that would certainly be barbaric and uncivilized.

    Tillman (a95660)

  153. Human flesh, not flash. Not my day today.

    Tillman (a95660)

  154. Lest we forget, ESPN is the same organization that brought us “The Undefeated,” the sports web site written by BLACKS for BLACKS.

    Apparently, ESPN deemed “The Undefeated” necessary because, as we all know, you NEVER see black people on ESPN.

    Deuce Frehley (7654f5)

  155. Civilization marches on; often in gray uniforms:

    Andersonville to Auschwitz in a mere 80 years.
    DCSCA (797bc0) — 8/23/2017 @ 1:49 pm

    That is a very poignant comment.

    felipe (023cc9)

  156. “There have certainly been barbaric people in history but does that necessarily mean the cultures that produced them were uncivilized?”

    – DRJ

    I suppose I come at the same question from the opposite angle, thinking that there have been many good people in history but acknowledging that the cultures that they came from were not necessarily civilized. I think that cultures are crucial in moulding individuals, but not to a deterministic degree.

    If it’s hard to condemn an otherwise uncivilized era or culture based on its shining lights, my preference would be to lend greater credit to the individuals than the culture that produced them (sort of the inverse of throwing out the baby with the bathwater).

    Leviticus (efada1)

  157. In other words, I would rather honor those individuals individually than incidentally honoring their cultures by association. Uncivilized civilizations can be home to very humane humans.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  158. Minds can be enslaved as much as the body, sometimes with the cooperation of thosecwho shouldjboe better:
    babalublog.com/2017/08/23/worst-and-most-horrific-quote-in-all-of-cuban-history-ever/#comments

    I do find the fret g about gutmo ironiv

    narciso (d1f714)

  159. Uncivilized civilizations can be home to very humane humans.

    It reminds me of the pony story but, really, can good come from the absence of good and/or evil?

    DRJ (15874d)

  160. would antifa eat a sara lee statue?

    mg (31009b)

  161. Bruce Lee is lucky he is dead

    mg (31009b)

  162. bet a lot of people are changing their spelling – lea

    mg (31009b)

  163. imagine if cassius clay would have changed his name – mohamed lee

    mg (31009b)

  164. Well its ironic he changed his name it that of an Albanian warlord who founded an Egyptian dynasty, who dealt in slaves.

    narciso (d1f714)

  165. in d.c. being p.c. is being the leader of the house with 260 bills past by the house sitting on your desk

    mg (31009b)

  166. leader of the senate

    mg (31009b)

  167. Yes its a quixotic exercise

    narciso (d1f714)

  168. You seem to be begging the question.

    No, just taking your argument to its logical conclusion. If, as you said,

    If they condoned human slavery, then they were not civilized cultures.

    Then Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome were not civilized cultures. But they are considered the very cradle of Western civilization. (Don’t take my word for this, ask any scholar.)

    Therefore, your premise is wrong.

    Chuck Bartowski (bc1c71)

  169. 163.In other words, I would rather honor those individuals individually than incidentally honoring their cultures by association. Uncivilized civilizations can be home to very humane humans.

    That’s a noble way of thinking. I agree. But I would add I am okay with people having statues to commemorate people I disagree with. Just like I figure they are entitled to read books I don’t like and dress like idiots. If they want to pay for a statue of Stalin in Salem, it’s their money. What I do object to are ships, buildings, highways and bridges financed with taxpayers money being name after politicians, activists and other ne’er-do-wells. Although nothing says “declining nation” quite like naming a ship after a communist queer rather than a Medal of Honor winner. Tough choices, indeed.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  170. A guy goes into the Punta Gorda Post Office to apply for a job. The interviewer asks him, “Are you allergic to anything?”

    He replies, “Yes, caffeine. I can’t drink coffee.”

    “Ok, Have you ever been in the military service?”

    “Yes,” he says, “I was in Afghanistan for one tour.”
    The interviewer says, “That will give you five extra points toward employment.”

    Then he asks, “Are you disabled in any way?”

    The guy says, “Yes. A bomb exploded near me and I lost both my testicles.”

    The interviewer grimaces and then says, “Disabled in your country’s service! Well,

    that qualifies for extra bonus points. Okay. Looking at the regulations you have got enough points for me to hire you right now. Our normal hours are from 8:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m..

    You can start tomorrow at 10:00 am, and plan on starting at 10:00 am every day.

    “The guy is puzzled and asks, “If the work hours are from 8:00 am to 4:00 PM, why don’t you want me here until 10:00 am?”

    “This is a government job,” the interviewer says. “For the first two hours, we just stand around drinking coffee and scratching our balls. No point in you coming in for that.”

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  171. good one, Rev.

    mg (31009b)

  172. Sounds like those commie bastards over at Berkeley may get some institutional push-back from their elitist slut-puppy commie overloads. ( Oops. I’m sorry; did I say that out loud? Heavens. I don’t know what came over me. )

    Q! (267694)

  173. ugh if i had a dollar for every testicle lost in afghanistan

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  174. 152 – “I also said that I believe America remains an uncivilized country.

    Which countries are civilized?

    harkin (74754c)

  175. Sounds like those commie bastards over at Berkeley may get some institutional pushback……”

    I predict the institution itself may get some pushback considering they’ve indoctrinated their students into believing that anyone who disagrees with the Groupthink is racist/primitive/hateful/definitely-worth-punching.

    What the hell took them so long to wake up and smell the coffee?

    Think it had anything to do with a slow realization that they themselves were getting closer and closer to becoming the enemy?

    harkin (74754c)

  176. Hope springs eternal — of late at about 40,000 mph.

    https://theskylive.com/voyager2-tracker

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  177. 72.

    And then he said there was blame or there was violence on both sides. That’s something that’s true, but the major media maybe thinks it is not true, but it’s also wrong because there was a murderer on only one of the sides, and another person was severely attacked.

    Actually Trump said “on many sides” (at least on one occasion)

    That means there were many groups there, which is true, but there doesn’t seem to have been any good group on the pro-statue side.

    Sammy Finkelman (8b387d)

  178. “Human flesh, not flash. Not my day today.”

    Tillman (a95660) — 8/23/2017 @ 3:20 pm

    Better lay off teh jazz cabbage, Tillie!

    Colonel Haiku (15b793)

  179. i like statues they are very nice

    i like how they’re always there when you come back

    there’s a sense of permanence what adheres to a statue

    as if it stands both in this time and apart from it

    vigilant and severe

    they remind us the receding horizon is at least as opaque as the one towards which we journey

    and often so much more so

    rivers change course and mountains crack and weather

    but these statues bridge epochs as perfectly as anything man or god has ever wrought

    they are very nice

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  180. i also like brussels sprouts

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  181. A Philadelphia woman is facing charges after she attacked a police horse with a nail-spiked flag pole during a demonstration in Harrisburg on Saturday morning.

    barack obama

    what an effing legacy you got there little man

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  182. Who are these ANTIFA freaks? Are they grown in vats on the planet Kamino?

    nk (dbc370)

  183. we need someone to do a journalism

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  184. DDT might work.

    nk (dbc370)

  185. it appears to impossible to find a Republican who knew about sleazy deceitful low-class war hero John McCain’s discredited pee pee dossier before he did

    So what’s the bottom line? It’s possible the it-started-with-Republicans conventional wisdom is just wrong. Or it’s possible there was a rogue Republican zillionaire who wanted to commission an extensive opposition research operation on Trump but not actually use the results of that research in the effort to stop Trump. Or it’s possible there was a zillionaire who characterized himself as a Republican but had never been a part of any GOP circles that the veteran political operatives who ran the Cruz, Rubio, Bush, and other Republican campaigns would recognize. Whatever the case, the conventional wisdom about the origin of the Trump dossier does not tell the whole story.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  186. Sinead, is that you? (#89).

    “When I look at you, I’m thinking 8 ball corner pocket.” Phil Hartman as Frank Sinatra, Saturday Night Live, 1990

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  187. 158
    It would be interesting to know what Hegel was actually referring to. All the GrecoRoman references to cannibalism I know present it as horrifying/barbaric. But the Talmud uses the phrase “they sold his flesh in the markets” as a euphemism for the martyrdom of Rabbi Akiva at the hands of the Romans. He was flayed alive. So was Saint Bartholomew. I think all of us would think a modern society which did that would not qualify for the term civilized. Ditto for a society which routinely executed criminals (some of them merely for the thought crime of belonging to a religion the authorities labelled illegal) by setting wild beasts on them as part of a public spectacle, or killing them by various methods as part of a re-enactment of a myth forming part of the same spectaculars (examples can be found in various secular histories and Christian martyrologies). And death by torture in various forms (burning at the stake, being broken on the wheel, etc) was practiced throughout Christian Europe almost to the start of modern times (say, for general purposes, until about 1700. Uncivilized by our standards, but those societies were the peak of civilization in their own time.

    kishnevi (a1b7cb)

  188. Many are closer to their “enemy” than their benefactor: http://www.yahoo.com/news/bernie-sanders-voters-helped-trump-210427684.html

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  189. 180, then again it is the Aggies

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  190. 193 Merry Brandybuck is an antifa! (Go to the picture of the third defendant.)

    I’ve known some Boston cops. They tend to take s—t from no one, even when it’s only metaphorical.

    kishnevi (a1b7cb)

  191. 148

    The 5 percent speak!

    Ben burn (7e5fb8)

  192. That’s the rare 5th inning relief appearance by mg, Ben.

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  193. The defining characteristic of every so-called civilization is a leisure class, which has the luxury of sitting around thinking about how to be civilized because an underclass provides all the labor. In earlier times, that underclass was largely slaves or poor free men who had no choice but to work for their daily bread.

    What abolished slavery in the 19th century was not Enlightenment. It was the Industrial Revolution and a population explosion of poor working people. Want to thank somebody for the abolition of slavery in the United States in the 19th century? It’s not Abraham Lincoln. It’s Eli Whitney, Elias Howe, Robert Fulton, James Watt and the Irish potato famine.

    nk (dbc370)

  194. Mike Rowe responds to a guy who called him a white nationalist:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-23/mike-rowe-eviscerates-smug-snowflake-who-calls-him-white-nationalist

    He might make a good president.

    harkin (74754c)

  195. Want to thank somebody for the abolition of slavery in the United States in the 19th century? It’s not Abraham Lincoln. It’s Eli Whitney, Elias Howe, Robert Fulton, James Watt and the Irish potato famine.

    And all made possible by Adam Smith.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  196. good for you
    gfy

    mg (31009b)

  197. I think schlichter is a little harsh, for example Bret Stephens comparison of trump to oil pot shows great lack of self awareness.

    narciso (f80216)

  198. Eli Whitney also invented mass production. I have a story of him demonstrating his method to then President George Washington, with muskets, which he and Washington assembled from bins of identical parts. As opposed to the method then in place of every musket being individually made. Fifty years later, Samuel Colt produced his first commercially successful revolver at Whitney’s factory in … Whitneyville.

    nk (dbc370)

  199. Thanks, nk. Yu reminded me I wanted to order a new Colt pistol. I was caught in a mesmerized loop drinking covfefe and watching that stupid antifag dude take a shot in the balls from a gas canister. That never gets old. Now I can go on line and order one of them-thar mail order guns we hear so much about. You know, the ones “sold” over the net. They never mention the buyer must have it sent to a licensed firearms dealer, fill out all the required paperwork, pass the background check and wait the required time before he can go actually pick up his new gun. Details to a lying leftist, mere details.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  200. sasse’s a rabid and white moral supremacist

    he went to harvard you know

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  201. You’re welcome, Hoagie. I like Davidson’s Gun Genie, myself.

    nk (dbc370)

  202. We’re the NO NOTHINGS a Federalist phenotype? Well, Lincoln was a Republican. Stop stove-piping your questionable lineage.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  203. Everyone wants to claim they come from Kings. No one wants to be the red-headed step-child.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  204. 217, Schlicter is fine as long as he talks crap about Mormon vendees, but if he directs a column at that cabal…dunzo!

    urbanleftbehind (5782b9)

  205. @217 It’s about “managing” messes in the Middle East in ways we can “live with” rather than persuading them to eliminate the threats to the way we live our lives.

    crazy (11d38b)

  206. http://www.newser.com/story/247660/celeb-chef-changes-restaurant-name-after-disturbing-find.html`

    ….Per the New York Times, Tom Colicchio, the lead judge on Bravo’s Top Chef, originally called his eatery in the New York City’s financial district Fowler & Wells, named after publishers Samuel Wells and brothers Lorenzo and Orson Fowler, whose building rested on the same site as Colicchio’s restaurant in the mid-1800s. However, a little digging by Colicchio’s team after they’d already named the restaurant revealed “facts about [the Fowlers’ and Wells’] beliefs that go against everything we stand for,” per a statement cited by Page Six.

    More specifically, the Fowlers and Wells were advocates of phrenology, the study of the shape and size of the skull, which many in the 19th century believed to be an indicator of one’s mental abilities—and which was often used to “prove” African-Americans were mentally inferior and to justify slavery (at least one of the Fowler brothers had eyebrow-raising thoughts on this).

    Colicchio, who’s an outspoken liberal on social media, said that although his team incorporated the concept of phrenology into the restaurant’s theme (including on the bar’s menu), they didn’t initially realize quite how bad the practice’s roots could be. Once they made this discovery, they went about coming up with a new name and reworking logos, signage, business cards, and menus to match. The restaurant’s new name: Temple Court, named after the building it’s housed in.

    This is the New York Times story:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/22/dining/temple-court-fowler-and-wells-tom-colicchio.html

    Fowler & Wells, which opened last October, was named for a publishing company and scientific institute that once operated in a building on the same site in the financial district; that building was later torn down, replaced by Temple Court, the building that stands there now. The men who started the company, Lorenzo and Orson Fowler and Samuel Wells, were proponents of phrenology, a popular 19th-century belief that the shape of one’s skull revealed characteristics like mental aptitude and personality.

    The practice was frequently used to justify slavery and to advance a belief in African-American inferiority. Orson Fowler wrote that coarse hair correlated with coarse fibers in the brain, and indicated coarse feelings; that, he wrote, suggested that people of African descent had poor verbal skills and traits that were best suited for nursing children or waiting on tables.

    He gradually found out the full story. He actually decided this before August 12.

    But it’s all one way:

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2013/feb/05/django-unchained-racist-science-phrenology

    Django Unchained and the racist science of phrenology

    Phrenology really was used to justify slavery, as portrayed in Django Unchained. But it was also used to justify abolition

    ……. ….If anything, the majority of phrenologists were against slavery…

    How can this be? George Combe, a man whose phrenological books sold more copies during the 19th century than Charles Darwin’s Origin of Species, explained his reasoning: “The qualities which make them submit to slavery are a guarantee that, if emancipated and justly dealt with, they would not shed blood.”

    I guess nonsense can always be fought with more nonsense. It all depnds on who is writing the nonsense.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.5705 secs.