Patterico's Pontifications

1/5/2017

Trump 2010: In China They Would Have Shot the Spies from Wikileaks Within 24 Hours

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:30 pm

As noted by Susan Wright yesterday, Donald Trump said of Julian Assange in 2010: “I think there should be, like, death penalty or something.” (Trump now says he loves Wikileaks — an evident display of hypocrisy.) After J.D. Durkin at Mediaite termed this a “joke” that was being overblown by CNN, Andrew Kaczynski released more evidence showing that Trump was not joking at all:

During [an] interview with Fox Business Network’s “Follow the Money,” Trump, who was considering a run for president, brought up WikiLeaks on his own accord as an example of a decline of America’s prestige. At the time, WikiLeaks was publishing classified material leaks to them by Pfc. Chelsea Manning, who was then known as Pfc. Bradley Manning.

“You look at WikiLeaks, I mean, in China, if this would’ve happened the people would get a bullet through their head within 24 hours and here in this country we’re embarrassed, everybody’s embarrassed,” Trump said. “We’re calling the leaders of other countries horrible names — how do you go back and negotiate with people with that. That’s just not the way life works. As far as I’m concerned it’s spying, it’s espionage.”

“They should try that young — they call him private first class — I call him private last class. They should try that young private and they should frankly either put him in jail for the rest of his life or maybe get the death penalty,” continued Trump. “You know, in the old days if you were a spy and that’s what he is you’d get the death penalty.

During a rally in October of this year Trump exclaimed “I love WikiLeaks.” The organization was at the time leaking emails from Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta and had previously released emails from the Democratic National Committee.

That Trump and other Republicans defend this is an example of how tribal politics causes people to defend anything and anybody these days. Former Bush speechwriter Michael Gerson has a good piece about this at the Washington Post:

Not long ago, Trump recommended the death penalty for Assange. Now he publicly sides with him against U.S. intelligence services. Palin urged the United States to go after Assange “with the same urgency we pursue al-Qaeda.” Now, we have seen her abject pleading: “Julian, I apologize.” Hannity once called for Assange’s “arrest.” Now he provides a sympathetic platform for Assange’s (and thus Vladimir Putin’s) views.

Let’s be clear about what this means. The president-elect of the United States is elevating a man whom the director of national intelligence, James R. Clapper Jr., holds responsible for putting the lives of operatives in direct danger. The 2008 Republican vice presidential nominee is bowing and scraping to the man who materially aided the Taliban. Fox News is now an outlet for the Russian version of events.

All this raises practical questions. If I were a prospective intelligence asset — an Iranian nuclear scientist, say, or a North Korean general — why in the world would I cooperate with a country that can’t keep secrets and apparently doesn’t care to? How will the CIA and other intelligence agencies deal day to day with a president who distrusts and publicly defames them?

But the most illuminating question is this: What changed about Assange between these dramatically evolved judgments? Nothing. Except that Assange hurt John Podesta, Hillary Clinton and the Democratic Party.

It would be difficult to formulate a purer example of motivated reasoning and tribal politics. We are dealing with political and moral argument at this level: Trump is good. Assange helped him. So Assange is good.

That’s about the size of it.

As a good right-wing pundit I am expected to offer defenses of Trump’s rank hypocrisy.

I’m expected to, but I won’t. I’m sick of partisan bull****.

All that said, I do owe Donald Trump a debt of thanks.

I thank Donald Trump for showing me how badly partisan hypocrisy has infected the body politic.

[Cross-posted at RedState.]

157 Responses to “Trump 2010: In China They Would Have Shot the Spies from Wikileaks Within 24 Hours”

  1. Ding.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  2. Yes when he burned every intelligence asset, for ten thousand miles, Carlos slims, bezis, the guardian, couldn’t get enough, when its about dirty lsundry, like Henley song its world war 3, no i don’t forgive, but I dint forget either.

    narciso (d1f714)

  3. The fact that is a sham of a mockery of a travesty of a hearing, when twenty million rpm files were snatched and they didn’t say nee, that this outfit wrongly attributed the Sony hack to north Korea, that should matter.

    narciso (d1f714)

  4. Furthermore this is the same community, that shut down honey’s investigation of the hizbutahir network, that allowed San Bernardino and Orlando and coastal Washington and Ohio state to fall through the cracks

    narciso (d1f714)

  5. Yes we have due pro, well im sure James rosen and the entire ap staff, find humor in that.

    Its a gonzo world, none of the broadsheets would have deigned to look into the dealings of red queen, if guccifer and Co. Hadnt dragged them kicking and screaming, and bill arkin well wheres a drone when you need one.

    narciso (d1f714)

  6. The whole Russians thing is a hoax started by the Hillary campaign and continued by Obama and the media. It started when Trump gave his press conference before the election and spoke about Hillary’s illegal email server. He quipped that if the Russians had her emails, he hoped they would release them so that the rest of us could see them too. Hillary’s campaign immediately started to claim that Trump was asking the Russians to hack. Which is obviously stupid to anyone with even a partially working brain. By that point in time, Hillary’s server had long been shut down. It would really take some awesome hacking to break into a server that wasn’t even operational any more.

    Since then the Democrats (and their sympathizers) have been peddling the fact free story that the Russians hacked our election.

    I would also note that anyone who thinks that Wikileaks releasing DNC secrets is on par with releasing classified documents from the American government has some really confused thought processes going on. DNC emails /= USA classified info. They are not even close to being the same.

    Anon Y. Mous (9e4c83)

  7. And if Seth Rich was the leaker, this is still accurate.

    NJRob (43d957)

  8. I know it’s weird. Like Bernie supporters dogging Debbie out of the DNC chair for being caught buying superdelegates votes to prop up Hillary through the early rounds.

    Where as normal people would be going “SUPERDELEGATES!?!!?!”

    “What kind of communist politbureau anti democratic party am I in?”

    But they’re liberals. There’s something wrong with them

    papertiger (c8116c)

  9. there are secrets and then their are secrets.

    It’s not like Assange was giving away the location of the Atlantic Fleet.

    Obama made sure our carriers would be parked in Virginia so as not to frighten any fishermen.

    All Assange did was define the close working relationship between Clinton and every news reporter dogging out the Donald.

    Employer and employee.

    How is that a secret?

    papertiger (c8116c)

  10. Trump, like any other person, is allowed to change his mind or just shoot his mouth off about anything he likes, within the same constraints as any other person. You seem to have a problem with this concept.

    I am absolutely convinced you never have done anything at all resembling this, never ever. Because it would cause some shattering apocalypse !

    Fred Trout (3a4897)

  11. I don’t see how Bradley Manning’s release of reams of TS material he stole out of the coderoom is the same as suckering a politician into doing their dirt in public.

    There’s a big distinction, and I’d like it more if Trump was aware of distinctions, but it’s there anyway. This is another one of those “equivalences” the Left throws out, like how John Kerry in VietNam was the same as GHWB in the South Pacific — they only seem similar if you really want them too.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  12. Honestly, I am a lot more concerned about our own intelligence agencies lying to the public for partisan advantage.

    I am not worried about Trump voters being partisan hypocrites nearly as much, because they don’t have the power to spy on me and the media won’t uncritically cover for them when they do.

    I’m a lot more concerned about the CIA preparing a special brief on it for Obama, and then LEAKING IT TO NEWSWEEK even before Obama gets it.

    And of course this is all OK with the Washington Post. Good thing they’re not a bunch of partisans who love the CIA when it helps their team and hate the CIA when it delivers intelligence that might be used to justify a Republican president’s war, right?

    Gabriel Hanna (d20cc4)

  13. The whole point of the CIA leaking this stuff to reporters is so they can get their lies out without having to back them up with any evidence.

    The CIA, when it briefs Congress and the President, is NOT standing behind anything that has leaked to the press.

    The CIA, at this point, is meddling in domestic politics. For a fact. Not like the fictional meddling of the Russians. They are really doing, quite blatantly.

    And no one who opposes Trump seems to mind this, except a few on the left who are still being consistent in their distrust of the CIA.

    Gabriel Hanna (d20cc4)

  14. As for Assange, well, he’s a rapist and an equal opportunity scoundrel — “ass” is part of his name. This is no more his doing than my garbage disposal is at fault for wasting food.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  15. There’s a lot of stuff being conflated here, too.

    Sure, Russia (and China and Israel and Francs and others) have spies here.

    The most devastating theft in the last 50 years was done by China, where they stole ALL the reords of everyone who has ever filed for a security clearance — fingerprints, life histories, embarrassing secrets, neighbor and co-worker interviews and data on family and friends. And they just basically left the files unencrypted on the public internet.

    I’m pretty sure nobody got fired. I’m with Trump here — people should have been shot. It will be 30 years before the damage from that stops.

    And nary a peep from the bigwigs, who are now all hot to trot because one of their fellow Secret Masters of the Universe fell for a phish.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  16. IMO, and I’ve looked for as much original source material as I can find, the critics here are wrongly conflating and comparing two separate episodes, and suggesting hypocrisy on the part of people who see a distinction.

    I can’t find ANYWHERE that Trump suggested Assange should be subject to the death penalty for releasing information in 2010. It was Bradley Manning that he explicitly said should be put in prison for life or executed for treason because he had access to TS material, carried it out of secured facilities, and then leaked it to Wikileaks so that it could be exposed to the world. That info included the names of intelligence assets and cooperators in Afghanistan, and likely got a lot of them killed.

    In 2010, Assange wasn’t bound by any obligation to secrecy except a moral one — his knowledge that if he was to make the information available on the internet it would expose the assets/cooperators to retribution and death. He did it anyway, WITH THE SAME JUSTIFICATION USED BY DANIEL ELSBERG AND THE NY TIMES WITH REGARD TO THE PENTAGON PAPERS.

    Now it seems that the CIA and Intel Comm determination is that Wikileaks obtained the Podesta and DNC records through a 3rd party, not directly from the Russians — maybe Assange is being truthful in saying he doesn’t know the actual origin of where the material came from, he only knows who he got them from and it wasn’t the Russians.

    But, what obligation did Assange have to not publish the material once it was in his hands? He didn’t hack the DNC and Podesta. He’s not on US soil. He’s just like the NYT — he had material come into his possession that he thought was a matter of public interest about one Presidential candidate in a Presidential election year.

    It wasn’t TS material, it didn’t put anyone’s lives at risk. And even to the extent that there was a disinformation campaign waged as part of the leaks of Wikileaks material, so what? The US has been waging disinformation campaigns in elections of friends and foes around the world for a century. Its part of advancing US interests around the world as those interests are determined by the people in power at the time. Obama thought it was important to influence the Israeli elections by getting Netanyahu defeated, and the US State Dept orchestrated a plan to make that happen. Obama walked away from Hosni Mubarak when it thought it was in the US interests to see his government fall in Egypt.

    That the Russians would have a “preferred” outcome in US elections in 2016 is ….. SHOCKING!!!!

    Does anyone think Bill Clinton preferred Gennady Zyuganov, the Communist Party leader in 1996, in the Russian elections won instead by Boris Yeltsin?

    The significance of Assange putting out the material that embarrassed the DNC and Podesta is orders of magnitude less significant than what Wilileaks published from Manning in 2010. I can certainly condemn the moral depravity and lack of decency with regard to the lives Assange put at risk in 2010, while shrugging off the idea that his organization — which has acted consistently in publishing state secrets of many different nations — put out emails that made the campaign of Hillary Clinton less endearing. But I don’t think what Assange did in 2010 warranted the “death penalty” because he was under no legal obligation to hold back the material. He had somewhere between 500,000 and 750,000 diplomatic cables and other intelligence documents and files given to him by Manning. His choice was to release them all or not release any of them.

    Welcome to the real world folks.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  17. In 2010 a lot of people had more confidence in the integrity of the institutions in our country than they do today. IRS employees taking the 5th before Congress, and getting away with it; the assassination of a U. S. Ambassador covered up in the weeks before the 2012 election, with the help of a media operative; the failure of the Roberts court to provide any check to Congressional over-reach; the Federal Reserve propping up a failed administration; Obama proclaiming strong arm thugs could have been his sons, intentionally feeding the fury directed at the police; and many more jaw-dropping revelations have all undermined the authority and prestige of our institutions. They have been shown to be nothing more than play things for a feckless administration. It is not unreasonable that someone would change their mind about the propriety of leaked information over these six years. Particularly when those leaks show collusion between the media and the Democrat candidate. In fact, they also demonstrated yet another failure of our institutions. The FEC has been so successfully weaponized by the administration that no one seems to be upset by a drum beat of threats to close down outlets like Drudge that simply apply their own headlines to links from worldwide media reports, while turning a blind eye to the enormous campaign finance violation that was committed when the Clinton campaign was shown to have controlled the questions in the “debates” moderated by left-wing operatives. Those debates were seen by tens of millions of voters, and the dollar value of the deception perpetrated by the media in favor of Clinton is huge. And yet our Congress, which is supposed to provide some balance to the administration, sits idly by, indifferent and apathetic when confronted with clear evidence of the FECs politicking. Another example of a failed institution.

    Anyone who hasn’t changed their opinion about leaks, particularly leaks that most likely came from an employee inside the Clinton campaign or the DNC, really needs to look into their own conscience and come to terms with their shortcomings.

    BobStewartatHome (c24491)

  18. Sh!t! We’re back to Carter years, where our intelligence services are the bad guys.

    F**k yourself, Badgerhead, and all the Trumpkins you rode in on.

    nk (dbc370)

  19. We’re back to the Carter years

    Good grief! What’s this all about? Carter was a benign hyperplasia compared to Obama and Pelosi. If all we had to deal with was the mess Carter left behind, I’d be a lot more optimistic. Iran with nuclear weapons, North Korea with an ICBM, and intelligence and investigative agencies actively participating in political campaigns on behalf of the administration, these are exponential deviations from poor Jimmy’s malaise.

    BobStewartatHome (c24491)

  20. I’m talking about something else.

    The Church Committee did its dirty work in 1975 (under Ford), but it was Carter in the aftermath (and Walter Mondale had been a member of the Committee) who proceeded to emasculate the intelligence services, cheered on by every leftist in the media, the entertainment industry, and the educational establishment.

    nk (dbc370)

  21. US intelligence poopers are a super-expensive waste of money plus they’re self-important and trashy

    you can tell by how Meghan’s loathsomely cowardly daddy’s programming makes him ask zany questions like oh my gosh was this phishing email on jon podesta an ACT OF WAR

    shark = jumped

    CIA FBI NSA

    LOL

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  22. Looking back on those days, I think the expectation was that we’d be able to read everyone else’s mail using our submarine wire taps, satellites, and our advantage in computers (as compared to the USSR.) Then we could pretend to be gentlemen … real gentlemen didn’t read other people’s mail … without having to deal with all those messy human intelligence “assets”. These assets were often rather disreputable and not at all the kind of person a politician would want to be associated with.

    That’s why I find the current faux outrage over foreign powers reading our emails so humorous. Of course they do, and we do to. The elaborate lengths we go to try and protect our confidential communications are a measure of how powerful these methods are. Vibrations on window panes detected by lasers are used to “hear” conversations inside, electronic noise emitted by keyboards and printers can be analyzed to recover the content of the message, and so on. (Which emphasizes how irresponsible Hillary! was with her communications. But her goal wasn’t to protect national secrets, it was probably to hide her own dealings from scrutiny by others.

    But this idea we could use technical means to get our information was only briefly valid, if it was ever valid at all. I agree that we need better intelligence, but this all starts at the White House. We really can’t expect much with the current occupant. The incoming crowd can’t help but be an improvement. And it is true that our only real success in ferreting out the extend of the subversion of the Roosevelt administration was discovered using technical means, and that long after the damage had been done. So there is an asymmetry, our opponents subvert our citizens to gain useful information, but we are not capable of returning the favor.

    BobStewartatHome (c24491)

  23. You know who else is part of an international spy network that tracks the movements of citizens in the West, as well as having access to their internet devices and electronic financial information? Uber.

    nk (dbc370)

  24. the saudi royal perverts are all up into uber

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  25. …and facilitates thuggery in good neighborhoods by expanding driving-for-fee opportunities to historically underserved communities as well as dubious financing of new vehicle purchases.

    urbanleftbehind (b6961b)

  26. Then you consider how the various powers and sores fund the anti cracking networks the campaigns against renditions, interrogations, it al.

    narciso (d1f714)

  27. Of course they are smart not to point out Russian filtration pits, execution of Chechen dissidents in third countries it al

    narciso (d1f714)

  28. I was joking. Kind of. Trump has all the right-wing paranoids who see black helicopters and men in black suits and stockpile MREs and wear camouflage underwear and think the government is watching them through their television set. They were (and still are) cheering that little Putin poofter-perv Snowden more than the Left was. And the partisan poofter boys in Congress, you know who I’m talking about, were playing right along — embarrassing America just so they could embarrass Obama.

    nk (dbc370)

  29. Those initial responses, narciso! Thanks for seeing the forest for the hand-wringing.

    Colonel Haiku (e3be5c)

  30. I take it all in, coronello, state of the art Tyrrell corporation processor.

    narciso (d1f714)

  31. Lol

    Colonel Haiku (e3be5c)

  32. This is what hypocricy looks like:

    JON KARL, ABC: So when the Chinese hacked OPM in 2015, 21+ million current and former government employees and contractors had their personal data stolen by the Chinese. Why did the White House do nothing publicly in reaction to that hack? Which in some ways, was even more widespread than what we saw here from the Russians?

    JOSH EARNEST: These are two cyber incidents that are malicious in nature but materially different.

    KARL: 20 million people had their personal data taken… fingerprints, social security numbers, background checks. This was a far-reaching act–

    EARNEST: I’m not downplaying the significance of it, I’m just saying that it is different than seeking to interfere int he conduct of a U.S. national election. I can’t speak to the steps that have been taken by the United States in response to that Chinese malicious cyber activity–

    KARL: But nothing was announced. There was not a single step announced by the White House.

    EARNEST: It is true that there was no public announcement about our response, but I can’t speak to what response may have been initiated in private.

    KARL: But no diplomats expelled, no compounds shut down, no sanctions imposed, correct? You don’t do that stuff secretly.

    elissa (72ca79)

  33. The New York Times flip-flop on the filibuster is a pure example of partisan BS, and thank you for highlighting that yesterday.

    Trump is not free of hypocrisy, but there are differences in what he condemned and what he praised.

    Releasing a country’s secrets to the world is not the same as releasing a political party’s secrets to the voters.

    Calling for the death penalty for Manning is not the exact opposite of praising Assange.

    Mike S (89ec89)

  34. Nobody needs to go out of their way to “embarrass 0bama”. He does a splendid job of that all by his damn self.

    Colonel Haiku (e3be5c)

  35. Here’s something that gets very little notice:

    https://static.pjmedia.com/instapundit/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Screen-Shot-2017-01-06-at-8.51.01-AM-570×600.png

    Mr. Nobel Pieces Prize

    Colonel Haiku (e3be5c)

  36. Hmmm… death penalty… prison for life… sex change…

    Who says we’re not serious.

    Colonel Haiku (e3be5c)

  37. Consider Brennan, our philby figure, ran a consultancy that was hacked the tac, burned a once in a life time asset in AqAP?

    narciso (d1f714)

  38. Not to mention hamas penpal Robert mallet, factotum Ben rhodes who couldn’t get an interim security clearance.

    narciso (d1f714)

  39. Ishmael Jones, known operator points out the problems in this narrative in powerline.

    narciso (d1f714)

  40. Crowfstrike also published a bogus report on the ukrainian military. So they are batting .300 at best.

    narciso (d1f714)

  41. elissa,

    The Chinese would have retaliated against Apple, and the Millennials would never have forgiven Obama for the loss of their iPhones.

    nk (dbc370)

  42. And the downside would have been there?

    Let us not forget the whole Edwin Wilson affair when he was painted as a rogue for outfitting Muammar, when was doing it on company orders.

    narciso (d1f714)

  43. So the enabler of the Iran and Cuba deals was a known security tusk, gave or fool its gets hazy.

    narciso (d1f714)

  44. In terms of compromised operations, facilities et al, arkin is a magnitude higher than assuange

    narciso (d1f714)

  45. SWC–Thank you for the dose of sanity@ 16. The pundit’s conclusion both in the headline and in the body of this piece is not substantiated by the Wright link or the actual quotes that he attached to the punditry–that the president elect ever called for Assange (the messenger/purveyor/publisher of 3rd party info) to be shot, when it seems obvious he was referring to the actual admitted spy (in this case Manning, whom DJT specifically called out and referred to at the time as “private 1st class, Private last class.”)

    Hypocrisy abounds in politics and in the media. There is plenty of room to question whether Trump and other politicians on both sides of the aisle at different times have used, praised, and denigrated Assange and Wikileaks, as specific leaked revelations and circumstances have affected them positively or negatively or as the political tide has gone in and out. That’s fair game. Always. But I hope Patterico will reflect on this and see fit to amend his post both here and at Redstate with respect to clarifying the allegation that Trump called for Assange to be killed–because I don’t see that anywhere.

    elissa (72ca79)

  46. No the Halloween massacre like a similar purge of assets brought about by toricellis need to please bianca jigger was overwrought

    narciso (d1f714)

  47. If anyone has the right to dress assuange like a moose its the huntress, but she’s been in a forgiving mood of late, she did mention how kernell’s intrusion affected her during the campaign, in her memoir.

    narciso (d1f714)

  48. As with everything in the Beltway Swamp there are multiple agendas at work in the “Russians stole Hillary’s Presidency” scandal. The choice of yesterday’s Senate Armed Forces Committee instead of the Intel Committee to air the story of this mess and how unprepared the IC is to deal with this stuff helps to make clear that this is really a manufactured crisis that requires a ready-to-go activation of an independent Cyber Command with expanded authority to operate against foreign threats.

    Like many of the structural post 9-11 reforms (DNI/DHS/etc) it sounds good until you think through just what the new bureaucracy will do with its new power. Trump’s skepticism may be the only thing that saves us from the next generation of government action.

    crazy (d3b449)

  49. The top men on the seventh floor and at liberty crossing (I didn’t need to know this arkin) are threatened by the reforms suggested.

    narciso (d1f714)

  50. ThAT all. Being said, this does legitimate Wikileaks for the next agee or stockwell or boyce

    narciso (d1f714)

  51. ergo the many leaks and outright advocacy by McCain and Graham as the sun sets on Obamaland.

    crazy (d3b449)

  52. It lets focus on things that matter otherwise you energy.

    narciso (d1f714)

  53. Teh Falcon and teh Bullsh*tman…

    Colonel Haiku (e3be5c)

  54. Michael Gerson, the slimy bushfilth toady of amazon turdlord jeffy bezos’s fake news site “the washington post” is the most brazenly dishonest one i think

    Not long ago, Trump recommended the death penalty for Assange.

    this is fake news

    end of story

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  55. Notwithstanding Trump’s rank hypocrisy, I really hate this media narrative that the Russians interfered in our election. This assumes more than merely the Russians did it. What it assumes is that a significant number of voters had intended to vote for Hillary but once the Wikileaks came out had changed to Trump.

    What did the Wikileaks tell us? It said that the Democrats and media colluded to influence the election. Please show me a voter that was “influenced” by this to the point their vote switched. So sticking with the above theme of tribalism, I guess it is okay if Americans try to tamper with the election but if outsiders do it, that is bad.

    When the dust settles, shouldn’t Americans be grateful that the truth about the incestuous relationship between say the NY Times and the Democrat Party was revealed? The sad truth is that no one really cares, which is why it is doubtful any voter really switched to Trump after Wikileaks. It has been said that the Russians did the job that the media refused to do.

    AZ Bob (f7a491)

  56. Sh!t! We’re back to Carter years, where our intelligence services are the bad guys.

    When they act like the bad guys–when they leak secret information to the press because they are butthurt about the election–they are the bad guys, Tailgunner. I know, I should move to Russia if I don’t love the CIA and all its works.

    But SWC, you will notice, is saying nothing different from what I am. Maybe he should move to Russia too.

    They were (and still are) cheering that little Putin poofter-perv Snowden more than the Left was.

    Cite please, Tailgunner. People who disagree with you about Trump are not automatically enemies of America. Name some names and provide the quotes.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  57. I just hope someone sketches out the meaning of ‘command influence’ for Trump before he decides to comment on Bergdahl. It would be a shame to see Bergdahl go free due to hyperbole.

    Rick Ballard (bc0399)

  58. But I Agree he deserved the lamrakis treatment then.

    narciso (d1f714)

  59. Donald Trump knows know principle other than self-worship, and judges everyone and everything in the world by a single, simple standard: Is it good for Donald Trump?

    Since that can change overnight, good and evil are infinitely malleable in TrumpWorld.

    Dave (711345)

  60. Shipwreckedcrew, thanks for the reasoned and well thought out response.

    Bob, you too.

    Does everyone remember when Governor Palin’s emails were dug through by the media and they asked for the public’s help to discredit her? How times have changed when it’s the DNC’s dirt revealed.

    NJRob (43d957)

  61. I’m still pissed what they did to Martha Stewart.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  62. that’s horseshyte dave.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  63. Yes I mentioned that detail, NJ, notable after they reviewed her records and found no conflict of interest they forgot that story, like all the broadsheets forgot the tonguebath they gave assaunge for five years.

    narciso (d1f714)

  64. Just wondering: anyone here think Trump actually remembers making those 2010 statements about Assange and Wikileaks?

    JP (f1742c)

  65. Anti Trumpers think Chelsea Manning’s new boobs are hot. True or false?

    True.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  66. Come on JP. That myth was exploded by Gabriel and Jersey.

    Blown to pieces. Can’t put Humpty back together again. Read the comments.

    IF President Trump can be interpreted as referring to Assange, then they copuld just as well be assigned to the entire editorial boards of the New York Times, Der Spegal, and the UK Guardian.

    Hey. What an idea!

    Ah but that would be wrong.

    Still what a glorious subversive idea!

    papertiger (c8116c)

  67. Mark Steyn just made a point about the CIA leaks proving the political bias in our intelligence community. I quickly googled the idea and found again Glenn Greenwald:

    “These unnamed sources told the Post that “the CIA has concluded in a secret assessment that Russia intervened in the 2016 election to help Donald Trump win the presidency, rather than just to undermine confidence in the U.S. electoral system.” The anonymous officials also claim that “intelligence agencies have identified individuals with connections to the Russian government who provided WikiLeaks with thousands of hacked emails” from both the DNC and John Podesta’s email account. Critically, none of the actual evidence for these claims is disclosed; indeed, the CIA’s “secret assessment” itself remains concealed.

    “A second leak from last night, this one given to the New York Times, cites other anonymous officials as asserting that ‘the Russians hacked the Republican National Committee’s computer systems in addition to their attacks on Democratic organizations, but did not release whatever information they gleaned from the Republican networks.’”

    The political motive was clear:

    “But the purpose of both anonymous leaks is to finger the Russian government for these hacks, acting with the motive to defeat Hillary Clinton.”

    What protocol gives the CIA the authorization to participate in the political diatribe like Russians?

    AZ Bob (f7a491)

  68. Former CIA director James Woolsey abruptly resigned (“effective immediately”) from the Trump transition team yesterday, one day after calling Julian Assange quite a ne’er-do-well whom tghere’s no point in listening to.

    Sammy Finkelman (6c2cdd)

  69. Now somebody leaked to the Washington taht Russian officials were overheard because of intercepted communicatios (intercepted communications is the one thing that is never supposed to be discussed – when car telephone conversations by Leonid Breznev were leaked, he stopped using them in a way so as to be overheard)

    They were eavesdropped celebrating the fact that Donald Trump had won the election. Like we really needed high level techinical spying to know that.

    Sammy Finkelman (6c2cdd)

  70. .I guess it is okay if Americans try to tamper with the election but if outsiders do it, that is bad.

    Well, actually, yes. Because they’re Americans. We do it all the time,by advocacy, donations, and by other less creditable means.

    It will be amusing to see some of you yelling and screaming when your ox gets gored this way at some point in the future. Or have you simply adopted Mr Hanna’s view that the only principle in politics is making sure you have a seat at the table when they divvy up the prizes?

    Kishnevi (fb4c79)

  71. i could care less if they divvy up the prizes i just want my share

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  72. @Kishnevi:Or have you simply adopted Mr Hanna’s view that the only principle in politics is making sure you have a seat at the table when they divvy up the prizes?

    That is lie which I would appreciate your retracting. I have never said anything of the sort.

    Do you have principles? Do you want to see them put into practice? Are you a dictator, or friends with one? No? Then to see any principles enacted you have to win an election, or be owed something by someone who does.

    If you can’t tell the difference between I what I actually said, and what you wrote, then you can’t read. And I know you can read, which means you lied.

    Kindly retract what you said, thanks.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  73. These sweeping announcements by the CIA and such are being made without government officials actually examining the DNC computers. The donks refused to turn the key evidence over that would allow these specious claims of Russian hacking to be confirmed or denied.

    I think the best question why hasn’t Obama ejected Chinese diplomats over the far more damaging non wikileaks involved OMP hack? Which was an actual computer hack by an actual hostile government enemy, unlike the Podesta phish?

    Same reason all 10 of our carrier fleets are in home port. Because Obama doesn’t give a damn about yours or mine. Or anybody’s secrets.

    He is a domestic enemy more terrible than an army of jihadis secreted among the public.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  74. The constant temper-tantrums are tiresome, Gabriel.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  75. Trump needs to be less flippant and our Intelligence leadership needs to be de-politicized.

    Colonel Haiku (e3be5c)

  76. maybe we should devote as much vetting to this,

    https://twitter.com/CounterJihadUS/status/817205163123318784

    narciso (d1f714)

  77. i love Mr. Trump he has a very healthy skepticism about these “intelligence” weirdos

    it’s healthy is what it is

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  78. @Leviticus: The constant temper-tantrums are tiresome, Gabriel.

    You need not read them or reply to them then. Would save you time and work, which you could apply to your constant tone-trolling.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  79. i slept so good last night knowing Mr. Trump is gonna be president soon

    like a goddamn baby

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  80. Gabriel @73
    You have descended to truly Orwellian levels. If you wish to persuade people I am wrong, try not to provide evidence that proves I am right in the very same comment:
    Then to see any principles enacted you have to win an election, or be owed something by someone who does.

    In simple English,the only thing that counts is to be on the winning side.

    Kishnevi (fb4c79)

  81. “You need not read them or reply to them then. Would save you time and work, which you could apply to your constant tone-trolling.”

    – Gabriel Hanna

    Only in Donald Trump’s America are requests for and expectations of basic courtesy in a longstanding community rhetorically reduced to “tone-trolling.” Where my country gone?!

    Leviticus (efada1)

  82. “You need not read them or reply to them then.”

    – Gabriel Hanna

    That’s fair enough, though.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  83. @Kishnevi:In simple English,the only thing that counts is to be on the winning side.

    That is not what I said. You have doubled down on the lie, and everyone reading this can see that for themselves.

    Only in Donald Trump’s America are requests for and expectations of basic courtesy

    You did no such thing with me. The regulars here, in general, are far less courteous to me than I am to them. You can’t point to anything I have said here that is uncivil or discourteous.

    My characterization of your comments is no more unfair than yours was of mine. You have no evidence that I was anything but even tempered, and no evidence that I lose my temper “constantly”.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  84. ==i slept so good last night knowing Mr. Trump is gonna be president soon
    like a goddamn baby==

    What is your evidence that it was that and not Fireball and RumChata which caused your excellent sleep? The standards of this blog require substantiating proof when people make blanket statements like that.

    elissa (72ca79)

  85. last night was an aperitif of vodka and celery bitters

    i have the rumchata but no fireball, and it’s been so cold i keep finding excuses to work at home

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  86. expectations of basic courtesy in a longstanding community rhetorically reduced to “tone-trolling.”

    If the question is “when?” that’s hard to put a finger on.
    For this particular thread it started at “… Donald Trump said of Julian Assange in 2010 …” then proceeded on from there.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  87. 77… that’s not the Boy Scouts org I belonged to, narciso!

    Colonel Haiku (e3be5c)

  88. Gabriel, do you agree or disagree with the following:
    Sometimes it is better to stick to one’s principles and be on the losing side.

    If you disagree with that statement, then my statements relating to you are totally correct, and you in fact are lying about me.

    If you agree with that statement, then I will gladly retract. Of course, if you do agree with that statement, you will be contradicting your own clearly expressed statements on the importance of being on the winning side.

    Kishnevi (fb4c79)

  89. I’ve been looking. John McCain called the Sony hack an Act of War.
    Couldn’t find any comment directly from McCain because of media flooding on “Russian act of war”, but I get the feeling that behind the chaff McCain probably called the OPM hack a “Chinese act of war”.

    I think he’s too invested with the cyber security aspect to realize that if he would just caucus with the party he came to dinner with, rather than pander to the minority, that he’d get more results on that front.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  90. In another development, Defense Secretary designate Mattis is rejecting all the names for deputies that the Trump transition team is suggesting to him. (according to the Washington Post)

    After it was bruited about that he might not name a successor to Clapper, Trump named former Senator Dan Coates of Indiana.

    Sammy Finkelman (6c2cdd)

  91. Of course there is a lot of efirm that needs to be done – it was the CIA whichs aid the attack in Benghazi was spontaneous (that is, not planned in advance) although they apparently did not get themselves on record as attributing it to a video (but rather to the events in Cairo) and then later said nobody did anything wrong or inadequate.

    But there was Russian hacking. Probably for intelligence then, when they got caught, somebody started to examine if there was some way they could use the information.

    Sammy Finkelman (6c2cdd)

  92. Feelingz, nothing more than feelingz,
    Trying to forget my feelingz of love.
    Tears drops rolling down on my face,
    Trying to forget my feelingz of love.

    Feelingz, for all my life I’ll feel it.
    I wish I’ve never met you, girl;
    You’ll never come again.
    Feelingz, wo-o-o feelingz,
    Wo-o-o, feel you again in my arms.

    Musical accompaniment [YouTube]

    papertiger (c8116c)

  93. @Kishnevi:Sometimes it is better to stick to one’s principles and be on the losing side.

    Agree. I agree that “sometimes” it is better not to be on the winning side (September 1936 is an obvious case).

    Of course, if you do agree with that statement, you will be contradicting your own clearly expressed statements on the importance of being on the winning side.

    No, because you said “sometimes” and I never said “always”.

    Even when you are trying to be conciliatory you mischaracterize what I say.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  94. @Kishnevi: Expecting your retraction now.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  95. Gabriel, have you ever been abducted by aliens?

    nk (dbc370)

  96. Did they “probe” you, Gabriel?

    nk (dbc370)

  97. @nk:Did they “probe” you, Gabriel?

    This is that “expectations of basic courtesy in a longstanding community” that Leviticus was one about.

    But it’s a nice change, Tailgunner, from your usual accusations of disloyalty.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  98. The landshark report was as expected very weak.

    narciso (d1f714)

  99. @narcisco: To expand on your cryptic comment, they used no intelligence sources to come to these conclusions: only publicly available resources like RT.

    The super sekrit evidence remains super sekrit, and the CIA does not stand behind what it was leaking to journalists all month.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  100. Zero hedge, slices and dices the report.

    narciso (d1f714)

  101. Zerohedge is a Russian dezinformatziya operation, whose purpose is to spread doom and gloom in the West, demoralize us about the state of our economy, and cause us to distrust our government. They may also (I don’t know this for sure) have been held prisoner at Area 51 after being abducted by aliens and “probed”.

    nk (dbc370)

  102. it’s a gaywad cia report what do you expect

    these are not serious people

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  103. I retract.

    Kishnevi (91d450)

  104. Today Mr Donald’s smashing electoral college victory over that nasty woman was affirmed by Congress.
    This is wonderful.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  105. Mr. Hanna sowing seeds of consensus on a fierce and wintry night

    children play dapsy-whizzle and shimmy-shanks by the fire

    while outside the black lives matter torture patrols prowl relentlessly

    outside in the dark cold streets

    thank you Barack Obama

    thank you so very much

    you got yourself a legacy there, mf

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  106. After reading the super duper report it doesn’t say much more than we’re sure we’re right, we think.

    crazy (d3b449)

  107. As opposed to bezos, Carlos slim and the journal,

    narciso (d1f714)

  108. @kishnevi: Thanks, I appreciate that.

    Gabriel Hanna (d20cc4)

  109. omg are people pushing that nasty hillary woman to run for mayor of nyc?
    wow, if you thought she was mia in regards to benghazi, wait until someone calls her at 3am to inform her about a pothole on 47th street

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  110. that nasty hillary woman could win the race for nyc mayor on account of the fact she won’t have to appeal to real americans

    come on, people in nyc think that albany is a fly-over state

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  111. I think that it’s a story some New York moms made up to scare their kids into eating all their vegetables.

    Really? You know of any other former First Lady, former Senator, former Secretary of State, twice candidate for Inevitable First Woman President who capped off her career as a mayor at age 70? Even of New York?

    nk (dbc370)

  112. the very thought of that nasty hillary woman as mayor is more likely to scare kids into eating poison instead of vegetables

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  113. Why not? She can hire Anthony Weiner as her internet liaison.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  114. Hey they deserve her.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  115. My thinking is if Hillary is hired as Mayor of New York it’s less likely Jerry Brown will hire her to a key position, so she can further screw up California as a retirement option.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  116. Napolitano, Eric Holder, Barbara Boxer, David Justice,

    No more NY cast offs, California is filled up to here with New York dead weight.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  117. Will foreign governments give to the Clinton Foundation if Hillary becomes mayor of NY?

    AZ Bob (f7a491)

  118. OT on great story out of Philly:

    New Year Day started the introduction of a ENORMOUS tax on sodas — which is defined so broadly in the new law that lactose free milk substitutes are also included.

    The tax is 1.5 cents per ounce. So .12 cents more on a standard 12 ounce can of Coke — so what, right?

    Well, there are some people posting images of receipts that show 12 packs and cases of soda almost doubling in price as a result of the tax. The tax is $2.20 on a 12 pack of 12 oz cans. If the 12 pack is on sale for $2.99, the tax is about 75%.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  119. #121

    I’ll bet that most of the people at foreign governments paying into the foundation are thrilled they don’t have to deal with her any more.

    steveg (5508fb)

  120. Trump loves watching his opponent get gored and is probably unable to see any type of double standard in it. Trump reminds me of an obnoxious fan who thinks Brady having footballs deflated and cell phone destroyed is nothing, but if Dak Prescott did the same in a game against the Patriots, it’d be lifetime ban, demolition of Cowboy stadium, no NFL football team allowed in the entire state.. ban Houston too.

    I’m wondering why Trump can want Assange shot, but Assange hates Hillary and dishes dirt on her but not Trump.

    I’m looking forward to what WikiLeaks releases after the inauguration. If it hurts Trump, then it’ll be back to “off with his head”.
    My guess is that Assange has dirt on Obama.

    Obama has a gift for stepping in his downplaying of affairs.
    ISIS is the JV team
    The emails are “Podesta’s risotto recipe”

    Now Obama rattles his tiny saber at Putin over “risotto recipe” and then runs and hides behind Trump.

    steveg (5508fb)

  121. Steve @ 124

    Post a link to a comment by Trump saying he wanted Assange shot.

    It doesn’t exist.

    He never said it.

    His reference was to Bradley Manning, a US Army Intelligence Officer who gave 750,000 classified documents to Wikileaks.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  122. #125

    I take your word for it. I misread just about everything up above… saw shot, death penalty, Assange, Trump. Conflated it all, multiplied by 7 and then spoke out of the wrong orifice.

    Bradley Manning creeps me out. Can’t believe the Obama people made us all pay for his sex change.
    Maybe Obama will remember to pardon of give clemency or whatever it is called to Bergdahl. If not, maybe Trump can rendition Bowe to Thailand and have them turn him into a big ugly ladyboy and then have he and Manning be cellmates.

    steveg (5508fb)

  123. I’m confused, swc. You think that when Trump criticized Wikileaks, he was criticizing Manning for leaking info to it but not Assange for accepting and publishing the info?

    DRJ (15874d)

  124. 126 — fair enough. You succumbed to the lazy reporting that has infected this topic. Unfortunately, Pat has simply swallowed it hook, line, and sinker. You can find the original video a couple places, and what he’s talking about in terms of “getting shot” is someone like Manning, not Assange/Wikileaks.

    So to say he was for killing Assange in 2010, and now praises him in 2016, is simply not factually accurate.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  125. SWC,
    I didn’t get the full details,
    But I heard a blurb on the radio that some in the city government want various businesses investigated for “price gouging” and blaming it on the new tax……….

    At least that is what my ears said that they heard.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  126. http://i.imgur.com/9jh1EP5.jpg

    #Grizzlyhumor #Bearlypossible #Grinandbearit #WheresMYgoldilocks? #PatiencemyassImgonnakillsumpin’ #Whatchutalkin’boutwillis? #Scammin’fersalmon

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  127. Blame the medical establishment.

    Doctors throw a scare into people about smoking and next thing you know there’s $10.00 worth of taxes on a pack of cigarettes — that’s 50 cents per cigarette, or $15.00 per ounce of tobacco, if you do the math.

    Then they throw a scare into people about obesity and pre-diabetes. (What on Earth is pre-diabetes, anyway? Anything like pre-pregnant? Or pre-dead?) So we get a sugar tax. You think 1.5 cents per ounce is a lot? Wait until it’s $15.00 per ounce.

    nk (dbc370)

  128. So if guys like Assange may be telling the truth, our intelligence agencies were nowhere to be found/had no interest in or what they are calling hacking by foreign governments until this issue can be used to try and de-legitimize a duly-elected president (all protests to the contrary), and that the American people were able to learn what they had suspected was true all along, e.g., that the Democrats and media are evil, corrupt and in in bed with each other, what’s the issue here?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  129. They didn’t have any problem with Russian support of Obama in 2008. Perhaps they’re just mad that Putin’s unregistered super-PAC exposed them.

    crazy (d3b449)

  130. the working families toni preckwinkle is so horny to violently butt-rape with her beverage tax in cook county has nothing to do with sugar

    it’s all about raping working families

    The tax will apply not just to sugary sodas, but to artificially sweetened drinks, including diet colas and ice tea. It will apply to sports drinks, which are meant to replenish the carbohydrates depleted through exercise. (Do couch potatoes drink Gatorade too? Yes. Again, that is not the government’s business.) It won’t apply to “100 percent fruit juice,” which, contrary to common belief, is not laden with nutrients.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  131. “Somehow from all of this we are supposed to understand that there is something especially unusual, new, and nefarious about what the Russians did this time (as opposed, by the way, to Obama administration attempts to unseat Netanyahu in the Israeli election). We are supposed to understand that the Russian action caused Trump to be elected, which may not have happened otherwise. We are supposed to understand that Trump is in league with our enemies the Russians, now that Russia really is our number one geopolitical enemy. We are supposed to understand that anonymous CIA leaks are fine in this case, and that the WaPo is just trying to inform us of the truth and not trying to influence anything.”

    http://neoneocon.com/2017/01/06/russian-hackers-cia-leakers/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  132. The Cook County Board passed a similar sweetened drink tax in Nov. which will go into effect July 1, 2017 only after great controversy, yelling, and gnashing of teeth. The penny per oz. tax finally passed but—-the board was in an 8-8 stalemate until Board President Toni Preckwinkle cast a tie-breaking vote in favor of the measure, claiming that it would raise much-needed revenue to avoid critical cuts to criminal justice and health care systems.

    This tax on sugary and artificially sweetened beverages is simply the latest cash grab in a long line of tax hikes by Cook County. Last November, the Cook County Board under Preckwinkle’s leadership approved and passed a sales tax hike, an amusement tax, an ammunition tax, a hotel tax, an e-cigarette liquid tax and a $20 increase in fees per lawsuit filed.

    Then, like now, Preckwinkle claimed that the need to raise revenue through new taxes was absolutely essential for critical services and did not discount the possibility of more taxes for Cook County residents for the 2017 budget.

    “I’m asking you today to put our working families first, stand up for good health in Cook County,” (Commissioner) Ramirez-Rosa said. “For pennies more per day, just pennies, we can ensure that we have a healthier county. We can ensure that we have a balanced budget that continues to fund the vital services that our residents need, that continues to put working families first.”

    Yeah, EYEROLL

    My family will not be much affected by this as I do not live in Cook County, only rarely shop for groceries in Cook County and I do not purchase pop. But even fruit juices are included in this tax unless they are 100% natural squeezed fresh. Amusingly, this coming tax was a hot topic at the New Year’s Eve party I attended, with great angst expressed by several well off suburbanite friends who live in suburban Cook County in places like Wilmette, Winnetka, Glenview, etc. and had done the math on the case price.

    I’m wondering if the Philly publicity will cause any reconsideration of the Cook County tax here. We shall see.

    elissa (377b6d)

  133. in other words, chicago democrat politicians are hoping that everyone drinks the kool-aid and then they want to tax you for it

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  134. is it a coincidence that radical fascists like toni preckwinkle are advancing these hyper-regressive beverage taxes at the same time the anderson cooper propaganda slut media is flooding the zone with diet-soda-is-bad-for-you propaganda

    and at the same time failmerica’s fascist FDA has moved to take cheap bulk caffeine powder off the market

    i don’t think so

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  135. In addition to neoneocon’s excellent summary we’re also supposed to believe that the mighty Russians either ignored or were incapable of exploiting HRC’s email and e-gadgets, even when they were used in areas of known Russian surveillance.

    crazy (d3b449)

  136. As noted by Susan Wright yesterday, Donald Trump said of Julian Assange in 2010: “I think there should be, like, death penalty or something.”

    Susan Wright has absolutely no evidence that Mr. Trump ever said Assange should be executed “or something.”

    None at all.

    She has a quote that simply does not say what she says it says.

    That quote being, “I think there should be, like, death penalty or something on that one.”

    Where did Mr. Trump say there that he thought Julian Assange should be executed?

    Nowhere.

    At best this is an inept attempt at doing the fakenews on her readers.

    At worst it’s a sad and desperate display of rank dishonesty.

    Either way I abjure this post what she did.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  137. also she used Mr. Goldstein’s trademark formulation there at the end

    I wonder where he is these days, and if he is happy there

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  138. Report: Hillary Clinton considered drone attack on Julian Assange

    I’m so confuzzled

    why are we not doing criticize on the bloodthirsty stinkypig

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  139. Way back in 1980 at Lake Placid, I’m very certain that Mr Donald was rooting for Team USA VS the USSR in the famous ice hockey match.
    Barack, on the other hand? Not so much.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  140. For elissa, who doesn’t love Twitter, but this one is funny.

    DRJ (15874d)

  141. i bet Team R wishes they had all those millions and millions and millions of dollars back what they squandered last year on poor pathetic Jeb Bush’s lackluster and largely ignored campaign

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  142. jeb was low energy

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  143. Jina.

    Had to do it.

    Donald (b41b24)

  144. Happyfeet @-141, I don’t tweet myself, but if you’re interested Goldstein is still tweeting up a storm at https://mobile.twitter.com/proteinwisdom

    I check out his feed once in awhile out of curiosity. Seems his oldest boy was in surgery the other day for a brain tumor, and came out of it with a good prognosis. Might want to shoot them a prayer.

    OK, back to my banning. Take care…

    lee (993483)

  145. Apparently, the way the tax works is that its not a sales tax at the retail level, but only a tax that applies to distributors. A not so clever way to deny that any tax was imposed on consumers.

    So when the price of soda goes up, the politicians are blaming it on the manufacturers and distributors by claiming they could opt to not pass on the entire amount of the tax at the point-of-sale to the consumer, and just cut their “massive” profit margins instead.

    What a bunch of tools.

    AND, the same goes for the voters who vote for such morons.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  146. @happyfeet, elissa, shipwreckedcrew: It won’t apply to “100 percent fruit juice,” which, contrary to common belief, is not laden with nutrients.

    Freshly-squeezed orange juice has 20.8 g sugar per cup, for a 20 oz serving that would be 52 g of sugar.

    A 20 oz bottle of Coca-Cola has 65 g of sugar.

    Orange juice from concentrate, no sugar added, 60 g of sugar.

    From an obesity or diabetes perspective, fruit juice and soda are interchangeable.

    Gabriel Hanna (d20cc4)

  147. i only buy pineapple juice cause of it’s a good mixer

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  148. just not with any kind of cream liqueur

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  149. right now my favorite thing is called a lillet hugo

    i found it at the lillet homepage then asked the googles for a build cause the lillet homepage expresses everything in absurdly obscure french metric measurements (wtf is a cl)

    • 2 parts of Lillet Blanc
    • 1 part elderflower liqueur
    • 2 parts of sparkling water
    • slice of lime

    Pour Lillet Blanc and the elderflower liqueur into a highball glass full of ice.

    Add the sparkling water and a slice of lime.

    garnish with mint

    ugh ugh ugh

    i abjure this build

    i deletered the sparkling water – it adds nothing nutritionally

    kept the 2 parts lillet one part st. germain ratio

    added a shot of vodka

    chilled it all in the shaker and put it in a martini glass with a few dashes of peychaud’s

    it’s completely decadent, gorgeous in candlelight, and if you have more than one?

    bless your heart

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  150. mr happyfeet you do a lot of abjuring
    i wonder if that’s just the age of obama
    or a happyfeet thang

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  151. there’s a lotta stuff out there what wants abjuring

    happy to oblige

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  152. lol the anderson cooper propaganda sluts tried to do fake news on Mr. Assange

    FAIL

    “An analyst on our air earlier today asserted that Julian Assange was a pedophile, and regrets saying it. In fact, CNN has no evidence to support that assertion.”

    doing fake news is a sign of a very personal weakness and insipidity

    looking at you susan wright

    happyfeet (28a91b)


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