Patterico's Pontifications

11/10/2014

About Heroes

Filed under: General — Dana @ 9:10 pm



[guest post by Dana]

I’ve been reading about Marcus Luttrell. He is the author of Lone Survivor, the gripping eye-witness account of U.S. Navy Seal Team 10 and Operation Redwing mission. The book was recently made into a film. Luttrell knows stuff. Stuff most of us will never know. But he makes us understand what a soldier’s service to country means:

“The idea…that our professional military men and women train for years without knowing whether they will ever have to actually carry out their missions to the fullest extent of their abilities is the very heart of what service is all about. Heroes aren’t designated in advance. Everyone must always be ready to execute.

In my experience, it’s always the greatest heroes who claim they never did anything beyond what any of their buddies would have done in the same situation. Our training and our culture breed that response into us all, no matter what war we were part of. You train yourself to a standard and thereby make yourself interchangeable with others who share the same standard. And that gives everyone an equal claim to the pride that goes with having served your country.”

…

“Once in a while some guys get put up for decorations and a ceremony takes place somewhere. You see them in dress uniforms, standing proud. But that’s politics and theater. You should see them as I have, downrange, in action. They’re amazing to watch, risking their lives to serve their country. I don’t like to talk about valor awards. I don’t think it’s useful to think about them. We just go to work, and it’s the work itself that tells us who we are. Our pride is no less without the fanfare.”

Recent Medal of Honor recipient Kyle Carpenter echoed Luttrell when awarded his medal:

You always hear ‘band of brothers,’ and that’s exactly what we are,” he said. “I’ll say I’m not surprised and no way patting myself on the back, because I know that if you put a thousand Marines in that situation, they would all do the same exact thing for me.”

And then I saw this making the rounds on the interwebs:

You don’t protect my freedom: Our childish insistence on calling soldiers heroes deadens real democracy.

Put a man in uniform, preferably a white man, give him a gun, and Americans will worship him. It is a particularly childish trait, of a childlike culture, that insists on anointing all active military members and police officers as “heroes.” The rhetorical sloppiness and intellectual shallowness of affixing such a reverent label to everyone in the military or law enforcement betrays a frightening cultural streak of nationalism, chauvinism, authoritarianism and totalitarianism, but it also makes honest and serious conversations necessary for the maintenance and enhancement of a fragile democracy nearly impossible.

(The author who wrote this asinine bit is the one on the right. Obviously.)

–Dana

65 Responses to “About Heroes”

  1. I think the guy writing this asinine drivel was writing something that he thought made him sound like a “deep thinker.” Not!

    Stan (909c7c) — 11/10/2014 @ 9:22 pm

  2. Iowahawk couldn’t make up the clown on the right.

    JD (285732) — 11/10/2014 @ 9:27 pm

  3. Is it the kid from Married With Children?

    nk (dbc370) — 11/10/2014 @ 9:33 pm

  4. This asshat learned from Chris Hayes.

    JD (285732) — 11/10/2014 @ 9:41 pm

  5. Citizen feels inadequate, snivels at those actually doing.

    The Few, The Proud. You could have joined us, and did not choose wisely. Sucks to be you, with your thousand deaths.

    htom (9b625a) — 11/10/2014 @ 9:50 pm

  6. I don’t know who this person is. Sounds like I don’t want to know.

    Mike K (90dfdc) — 11/10/2014 @ 10:01 pm

  7. Salon. I might have guessed.

    Mike K (90dfdc) — 11/10/2014 @ 10:03 pm

  8. I’ve been privileged to have been accepted as a friend by a few heroes.

    One, a cargo pilot, won a silver star at Khe Sanh, a bronze at Dhaka. A second won his bronze in the Apennines, then wintering alone, cut off from Patton’s army.

    I knew them decades after those deeds of theirs. More positive, encouraging giving, honorable men I shall never meet.

    DNF (4c9418) — 11/10/2014 @ 10:09 pm

  9. If he doesn’t think that his freedom is defended by soldiers and policemen, I’d be curious to know who he thinks does defend it.

    Steven Den Beste (99cfa1) — 11/10/2014 @ 10:11 pm

  10. Sylvester Stallone, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Bruce Willis, Dolph Lungren …. Those guys, Steven.

    nk (dbc370) — 11/10/2014 @ 10:15 pm

  11. Well the little numbnuts that wrote that piece of tripe is “Pajama Boy” in need of a haircut and a shave (although I’d be surprised if Pajama Boy could raise a beard–or if his mother had let him cut his baby hair by now.)

    But I digress. I do think the little weasel has a point about the overuse of the word “hero”. The mere act of putting on a uniform does not necessarily make you a hero. Some guys in the military are destined to be company supply clerks who never left their state side post. Other guys wearing the same uniform are out their getting their backsides shot at, it not off. Is Al Gore a “hero” because he was an Army journalist in Viet Nam who never got out of Saigon? {There are some advantages to being a Senator’s son after all.}

    Skeptical Voter (12e67d) — 11/10/2014 @ 10:48 pm

  12. Iowahawk couldn’t make up the clown on the right.

    It’s like, buddy, if you absolutely fit the caricature of an effete snob whose ability in the manly arts doesn’t extend past choosing the proper white wine to go with the vegetarian quiche, then you probably shouldn’t be writing stuff like this.

    ——

    If he doesn’t think that his freedom is defended by soldiers and policemen, I’d be curious to know who he thinks does defend it.

    To him, probably the ACLU, NARAL, Obama for America, the Sierra Club, International ANSWER, the Faculty of the Wymyns & GLBTQ Studies Department, and PBS. Just guessing there, but I’ll bet I’m right.

    JVW (60ca93) — 11/10/2014 @ 10:52 pm

  13. Perhaps it was a mistake to take a break from writing thank you notes to my heroes.

    My heroes have all honorably worn our nation’s uniforms to protect the freedom of clowns like this to write stupid stuff.

    AZ_Langer (a65cb5) — 11/10/2014 @ 10:54 pm

  14. OK, at the risk of starting a bad flame war:

    [The author of the piece who does not deserve to be named] is the author of Mellencamp: American Troubadour (forthcoming, University Press of Kentucky).

    So there you have it right there. Any chronicler of the utter banality of John Cougar Mellencamp’s music is someone who can only play basketball on the 8-foot rims. Enough said.

    JVW (60ca93) — 11/10/2014 @ 10:59 pm

  15. Dude looks like he’s rocked out at a Dan Fogelberg concert or two in his day.

    JVW (60ca93) — 11/10/2014 @ 11:03 pm

  16. Dude on the right needs to STFU and thank the guy on the left for protecting his right to spew out such drivel and eat tofu Grape Nuts…

    Nuf said from this vet…

    Infidel Mataween (ff5655) — 11/10/2014 @ 11:19 pm

  17. i heard he’s a member of a Jackson Browne cover band called “Fountain of Sorrow”..

    😎

    redc1c4 (4db2c8) — 11/10/2014 @ 11:21 pm

  18. Man on the left would lay down his life to protect the man on the right’s human right to verbally condemn the military. Man on the right can’t do anything to take that away. Class and honor aren’t doled out by a judgmental or insecure press.

    Dustin (04c6be) — 11/10/2014 @ 11:32 pm

  19. This animals face should be on a milk carton.

    mg (8361ab) — 11/11/2014 @ 2:54 am

  20. It’s not profitable to try to pshrink a stranger one has never met…but I suspect that writing this piece didn’t make that clown feel any better about himself.

    Richard Aubrey (f6d8de) — 11/11/2014 @ 3:59 am

  21. if the asshat pacifists and “peace types” had gotten their way in 1941, they would all be either speaking German or be lampshades.

    John Cunningham (9f3ba7) — 11/11/2014 @ 4:15 am

  22. If this person’s experience of “heroes” has been limited to running into the kind of cops who we read about almost daily; the morons who pull dynamic entry raids on homes with small children, the bandits who use Asset Forfeiture to commit highway robbery, and so forth, then I can almost excuse him. He sees stories about such cops, he sees the defense of same conflating them with soldiers and warriors, and he buys in.

    There is a vast difference between active front line military, and the kind of slob who becomes a bad cop. But you kinda have toy know some front line military (and some good cops) to appreciate how BIG that difference is.

    None of which changes that this person certainly does come off as a self absorbed prat.

    “Making mock of uniforms that guard you when you sleep
    is cheaper than them uniforms, and they’re starvation cheap.”

    But it doesn’t help when society tolerates uniformed disgraces, even if it is a different uniform.

    I note, in passing, that when the Abu-whatsit scandal broke, the military was already in the process of crucifying the idiots involved.

    C. S. P. Schofield (848299) — 11/11/2014 @ 5:06 am

  23. Any chronicler of the utter banality of John Cougar Mellencamp’s music

    What’s the point of insulting John Cougar Mellencamp (who’s a capable and durable producer of pop music)? He didn’t write this man’s stupid screeds.

    Art Deco (ee8de5) — 11/11/2014 @ 5:43 am

  24. This guy packs his piece with lies and other BS from start to finish. It’s hard to know where to begin.

    However, I would far rather have children running the government that people like him. Children at least realize there are bad guys out there and good guys need to protect us from them. When superhero cartoons have a better thought out worldview than you do, perhaps some remedial education is in order.

    OmegaPaladin (a0e77e) — 11/11/2014 @ 6:21 am

  25. JVW (60ca93) — 11/10/2014 @ 10:52 pm

    I’d say you are right,JVW.

    felipe (b5e0f4) — 11/11/2014 @ 7:15 am

  26. Don’t know too much about Johnny Cougar do ya?

    Donald (ac2786) — 11/11/2014 @ 7:26 am

  27. #17… no, red, he’s the flutist in Puddle of Mudd…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 11/11/2014 @ 7:26 am

  28. the dude on the right… I see much wisdom in those eyes… wait, no… it’s the out-of-focus thousand yard stare of a guy who has seen far too many pinkslips.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 11/11/2014 @ 7:32 am

  29. You don’t protect my freedom: Our childish insistence on calling soldiers heroes deadens real democracy.

    The problem with intestinally-challenged fools like David Masciotra goes back thousands of years. Such people were voicing this very argument just before King Leonidas and a hand-full of heroes proved them wrong at Thermopylae. If, down through the centuries, any of the self-absorbed pseudo-intellectuals who have uttered something similar had ever actually stood up and done anything to protect their way of life, such words would never have been written.

    PPs43 (6fdef4) — 11/11/2014 @ 8:07 am

  30. the salon guy is a bad writer and he’s failed to frame the discussion he wanted to have in a way that people will engage with his ideas in a serious way

    he would do well to use his time more productively in future

    happyfeet (a037ad) — 11/11/2014 @ 8:17 am

  31. The Luxury of Pacifism has been Paved by the Duty of Warriors–Scott Sonnen

    “Don’t hate those vigilantly standing post on the wall over your liberty.

    Don’t hate those who voluntarily raise their hands to move toward violence for your safety.

    Honor them for doing what you do not so you do not need to.

    Embrace them when they come home for only our love heals spirits damaged from what they’ve endured… for us.”

    http://www.rmaxinternational.com/flowcoach/?p=701

    Angelo (05d3ef) — 11/11/2014 @ 8:23 am

  32. I remember a do-gooder leftist who was rescued from Darfur by the military. She sure changed her tune about the military. Pretty safe to say she idolizes them now too.

    Re Lone Survivor, what made me so angry was the ROEs that determined how the guys would fight. They were more afraid of the media and the brass than they were of the Taliban. That must stop.

    Patricia (5fc097) — 11/11/2014 @ 8:23 am

  33. PPs43 (6fdef4) — 11/11/2014 @ 8:07 am

    Such people were voicing this very argument just before King Leonidas and a hand-full of heroes…

    .. LOST

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demophilus_of_Thespiae

    Demophilus or Demophilos (Greek: Δημόφιλος), according to Herodotus, was the commander of a contingent of 700 Thespians at the Battle of Thermopylae (480 BC). His father was the Diadromes (Greek: Διαδρομέας).[1]

    He and his men fought at the battle and at the end they stood along with the 300 Spartans at the last stand and all were killed.[2] The ancient Greek traveler and geographer Pausanias also wrote about the stay of the Thespians at Thermopylae together with the Spartans.[3]

    After the Battle of Thermopylae, Persian army burned down the city of Thespiae. The citizens of the city had fled to the Peloponnese.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Thermopylae

    Since the Greek strategy required both Thermopylae and Artemisium to be held, and given their losses, it was decided to withdraw to Salamis. The Persians overran Boeotia and then captured the evacuated Athens. The Greek fleet — seeking a decisive victory over the Persian armada — attacked and defeated the invaders at the Battle of Salamis in late 480 BC. …the following year saw a Greek army decisively defeat the Persians at the Battle of Plataea, thereby ending the Persian invasion….as a delaying action, Thermopylae was insignificant compared to Xerxes’s own procrastination….The fame of Thermopylae is thus principally derived, not from its effect on the outcome of the war, but for the inspirational example it set.[116][119] Thermopylae is famous because of the heroism of the doomed rearguard, who, despite facing certain death, remained at the pass..

    No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.

    – George S. Patton

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Salamis

    Although heavily outnumbered, the Greek Allies were persuaded by the Athenian general Themistocles to bring the Persian fleet to battle again, in the hope that a victory would prevent naval operations against the Peloponessus. The Persian king Xerxes was also anxious for a decisive battle. As a result of subterfuge on the part of Themistocles, the Persian navy sailed into the Straits of Salamis and tried to block both entrances. In the cramped conditions of the Straits the great Persian numbers were an active hindrance, as ships struggled to maneuver and became disorganized. Seizing the opportunity, the Greek fleet formed in line and scored a decisive victory.

    Sammy Finkelman (ea9037) — 11/11/2014 @ 8:36 am

  34. What’s the point of insulting John Cougar Mellencamp (who’s a capable and durable producer of pop music)? He didn’t write this man’s stupid screeds.

    Mellencamp produces cornball anthems for people who wore REO Speedwagon t-shirts to high school. On top of that, he has the same super-rich “working man” politics as Bruce Springsteen, the man of the people who just happens to own a 32,000 square foot mansion and a Rolls-Royce.

    JVW (60ca93) — 11/11/2014 @ 8:49 am

  35. Sammy,
    Look up the etymology of the word “hero.” Among other meanings it connotes “immortal human being.” Although the Spartans and a few others lost their lives, such sacrifice gave their countrymen the inspiration and the time to ultimately defeat their enemies. I happen to agree with Patton regarding “the other dumb bastard” but there are times when lives, fortunes, and sacred honors must be sacrificed. A week from now I very much doubt the name David Masciotra or his facile article will be remembered by anyone. The actions of Leonidas and his fellow Greeks however, will be part of living memory for many generations to come.

    Molon Labe.

    PPs43 (6fdef4) — 11/11/2014 @ 9:08 am

  36. Mellencamp produces cornball anthems for people who wore REO Speedwagon t-shirts to high school.

    If you wish to be accepted in English society, you’ll take the label off your cigar before smoking it.

    —

    On top of that, he has the same super-rich “working man” politics as Bruce Springsteen, the man of the people who just happens to own a 32,000 square foot mansion and a Rolls-Royce.

    He owns quite a bit of real estate, ergo he should have started talking like Ayn Rand? His politics are somewhat stereotyped and cartoonish (and more wine-track than you suggest), but so are those of coffeehouse poets who live paycheck to paycheck.

    Art Deco (ee8de5) — 11/11/2014 @ 9:35 am

  37. the salon guy is a bad writer

    He has several income sources and appears to be making a living off it. Bad he may be according to a gold standard, but that’s what his employers fancy is non-bad. The demise of journalism has been earned.

    Art Deco (ee8de5) — 11/11/2014 @ 9:37 am

  38. 35. When they had crossed over, Elijah said to Elisha, “Ask what I shall do for you before I am taken from you.” And Elisha said, “Please, let a double portion of your spirit be upon me.” 10He said, “You have asked a hard thing. Nevertheless, if you see me when I am taken from you, it shall be so for you; but if not, it shall not be so.”

    DNF (546553) — 11/11/2014 @ 9:39 am

  39. If the guy on the right had even been in uniform, he’d have been Bradley Manning.

    The Dana who can read (f6a568) — 11/11/2014 @ 9:42 am

  40. 30. Yes, the problem is the “messaging”, more photoshop.

    DNF (546553) — 11/11/2014 @ 9:42 am

  41. 32. Everyone deals falsely. 14″They have healed the brokenness of My people superficially, Saying, ‘Peace, peace,’ But there is no peace. 15″Were they ashamed because of the abomination they have done? They were not even ashamed at all; They did not even know how to blush.

    DNF (546553) — 11/11/2014 @ 9:46 am

  42. @ happyfeet,

    the salon guy is a bad writer and he’s failed to frame the discussion he wanted to have in a way that people will engage with his ideas in a serious way.

    I don’t believe this has anything to do with his writing abilities, I think they are clearly good as he communicated his personal philosophy and agenda in the piece. No, we’re not reading him wrong Words mean something. He’s a wordsmith and knows that words mean something. And, if you read his bio at his website, he is apparently even considered a “brilliant” writer.

    He successfully made his point – the very one that he wanted to make.

    Dana (8e74ce) — 11/11/2014 @ 11:09 am

  43. Food for thought:

    For many years, one of the most important influences in the development of my thinking and writing was Cornel West. Many of his early books, along with the experiences I had watching him deliver moving and provocative lectures, were essential to the cultivation of my own political perspective, sense of cultural engagement, and philosophical framework.

    …

    I recently had the pleasure and privilege of enjoying a two hour conversation with a hero of mine, Jesse Jackson.

    I told Jackson that the work he did, along with Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks, Medgar Evers, and others, not only freed black people in the United States from a brutal system of apartheid, oppression, and exploitation (work that continues), but also saved me – a white man born in 1985 – from inheriting the role of occupier, oppressor, and executioner.

    …

    In my latest column for the Indianapolis Star, I lay out some basic facts of Palestinian suffering at Israeli hands. It is a regime of human rights violations, abuse, and violence that U.S. supports with military, financial, and diplomatic aid.

    In the column, I reference the work of Gregory Harms, who is an immensely important voice of reason, clarity, and sanity on the crime of the Israeli Occupation.

    In case you don’t recognize the last name referenced:

    Gregory Harms is an independent scholar specializing in US foreign policy and the Middle East. He lectures, keeps a blog on Facebook, and publishes articles on CounterPunch, Truthout, Mondoweiss, and Juan Cole’s blog, Informed Comment. Harms has traveled throughout Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza, and has been interviewed on BBC Radio.

    carlitos (c24ed5) — 11/11/2014 @ 11:29 am

  44. http://israelshield.blogspot.com/2014/11/just-how-barbaric-are-israels-enemies.html

    Sammy Finkelman (652c5b) — 11/11/2014 @ 11:52 am

  45. Food for thought:

    What, that the man thinks in cliches?

    Art Deco (ee8de5) — 11/11/2014 @ 12:02 pm

  46. Speaking of heroes, I just saw a screening of a new documentary film produced by Nancy Spielberg, (Steven’s younger sis) called Above and Beyond. It’s the little-known story of the origin of the Israeli Air Force shortly before Statehood in 1948. Most of the pilots and ground crew were volunteers from the U.S., Canada, and other countries. Once the film has been shown at various international film festivals it will probably be in theaters. More here; WARBIRD MAGAZINE! If you get a chance to see this, take it it is well worth your time.

    PPs43 (6fdef4) — 11/11/2014 @ 12:35 pm

  47. Art Deco – I was merely pointing out who the author’s heroes and influencers were. Cornel West, Jesse Jackson and Greg Harms — it’s like a leftist cliché, yeah.

    carlitos (c24ed5) — 11/11/2014 @ 12:42 pm

  48. In the time I spent in the Air Force, I certainly was no hero. We all like to think that we could rise to an occasion if needed, but most never find out. I was honored to serve with some genuine heroes and they are the most down to earth people you would meet. This “journalist” should hope that his ass is never in need of help by anyone who he clearly looks down upon and realizes who he is.

    Roman (0bfd6d) — 11/11/2014 @ 1:41 pm

  49. Veterans… we’re talking about people who have written a check payable to the government for everything, up to and including their lives… so that others – including ungrateful, weak-suck, leftist wannabe writers – may live their’s in peace.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 11/11/2014 @ 2:22 pm

  50. snicker… snicker…

    http://jamesostafford.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/john-mellencamp-the-kid-inside1.jpg

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 11/11/2014 @ 2:25 pm

  51. in the li’l scamps defense, he does put on a pretty good live show… saw him open for Bob Dylan 5 or 6 years ago.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 11/11/2014 @ 2:27 pm

  52. John Mellencamp was the loudest outdoor show I’ve ever seen, and that includes Motorhead.

    carlitos (c24ed5) — 11/11/2014 @ 2:58 pm

  53. He’s a hard core lefty whose money has gone to his head. He wanted to feature Joan Baez!!!! at a show for wounded soldiers at Walter Reed. That did not work out well. But he would be the kind of guy this Bud Bundy lookalike contest winner would write a book about.

    nk (dbc370) — 11/11/2014 @ 3:28 pm

  54. Put a man in uniform, preferably a white man, give him a gun, and Americans will worship him

    Nah. Not if they are liberals.

    Brian Geary (6af3a8) — 11/11/2014 @ 3:46 pm

  55. “I remember a do-gooder leftist who was rescued from Darfur by the military. She sure changed her tune about the military. Pretty safe to say she idolizes them now too.””
    Patricia. Really? Lefty do-gooder getting the message? I would never have believed it. We had the peacekeeper brothers rescued by the Brits from some bad guys in Iraq who said nothing about it until somebody reminded them.
    Do you have a link to this astounding and inconceivable happening?

    Richard Aubrey (f6d8de) — 11/11/2014 @ 3:54 pm

  56. i still think he wanted to have a serious discussion but he indulged himself in too much emotional vomiting to communicate anything useful

    happyfeet (831175) — 11/11/2014 @ 4:39 pm

  57. 7:30 tomorrow, happyfeet? Did you Google map it?

    nk (dbc370) — 11/11/2014 @ 4:50 pm

  58. Emotional Vomiting would be a cool band name. You could do eating disorder themed punk music.

    Bastards of Tongue
    A thanksgiving number – Puke out the yams (you gotta puke ’em up)
    Bulimia Bop
    The Man Who Pukes Every Day

    carlitos (c24ed5) — 11/11/2014 @ 4:54 pm

  59. hi yes yes 7:30 is good

    i found directions it’s about 20 minutes it says

    happyfeet (831175) — 11/11/2014 @ 5:26 pm

  60. christmas!!

    let it spew let it spew let it spew

    happyfeet (831175) — 11/11/2014 @ 5:27 pm

  61. http://twitchy.com/2014/11/11/for-veterans-day-salon-writer-returns-to-twitter-doubles-down-on-enraging-heroes-jackassery-hes-vile/

    He re-emerged from his cowardly hiding to puke out some more bile, then as cowards are prone to do, immediately ran away. Again.

    JD (fb69bb) — 11/11/2014 @ 5:28 pm

  62. 20 minutes sounds about right. All the lights. Addison is the best choice westbound.

    nk (dbc370) — 11/11/2014 @ 5:30 pm

  63. got it i will map a route at work tomorrow

    happyfeet (831175) — 11/11/2014 @ 5:36 pm

  64. 3558 North Pulaski Road. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Manee+Thai+Restaurant/@41.946244,-87.727499,15z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0xa8b75392899d87ef

    nk (dbc370) — 11/11/2014 @ 5:53 pm

  65. be there soon was at wrong manee

    happyfeet (b78799) — 11/12/2014 @ 5:36 pm


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