Patterico's Pontifications

5/25/2014

The “Lesson” of the Santa Barbara Shootings

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 9:18 am

Desperate to draw a Larger Lesson from the deadly Santa Barbara shootings? OK; but it should not be about gun control or pick-up artists. How’s this for a Larger Lesson: sometimes the guy who commits a crime like this is simply a horrible and disturbed person.

248 Responses to “The “Lesson” of the Santa Barbara Shootings”

  1. For full context, Elliot Rodger (whose father is British, mother is east Asian) raged at any guy, regardless of his race, ethnicity, etc, who he saw dating attractive women. He also resented the fact that one of his former roommates (who was white), who he dismissed as being an unattractive nerd (or “slob,” or something like that), at least was able to attract girls over to his apartment. But Rodger was a bit less angry about that because he said the girls were average looking.

    He also wanted, as part of his original plot, to murder his half-brother (whose I believe is in his pre-teens) to prevent him from leading the life he felt was owed to him.

    Mark (99b8fd)

  2. this is obviously the fault of law abiding gun owners everywhere because the NRA is evil.

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  3. For full context, Elliot Rodger (whose father is British, mother is east Asian) raged at any guy, regardless of his race, ethnicity, etc, who he saw dating attractive women. He also resented the fact that one of his former roommates (who was white), who he dismissed as being an unattractive nerd (or “slob,” or something like that), at least was able to attract girls over to his apartment. But Rodger was a bit less angry about that because he said the girls were average looking.

    To top it off, Elliot Rodger was a virgin. You can not get more pathetic than that.

    Abstinence advocates keep saying that premarital sex causes emotional harm. But it is clear that, from this example, virginity is deadly.

    Michael Ejercito (becea5)

  4. I guess I’d have to plead ‘Charlie Gibson’*

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/05/another-leftist-killer%E2%9E%99-santa-barbara-shooter-elliot-rodger-was-fan-young-turks-channel/

    *I know who they are, but they are more obscure than Ronan Farrow,

    narciso (3fec35)

  5. He was part of the “participation prize” culture. They don’t learn how to fail, therefore they cannot succeed. Look at the media, “Seven shot in drive by!!!!” Actually, he stabbed 3, shot 3 and that total includes his suicide. It’s a product of the war on women!!!!! Actually, he killed 4 men, 2 women and himself. The dishonesty is staggering, and totally expected.

    Gazzer (554004)

  6. There’s definitely a world out there where this misogyny stews. Where women are “sluts” that men feel entitled to. It’s a damn shame to let that continue.

    carba (b0bffa)

  7. Yeah carba. There is. And it’s rampant mostly in the middle east and certain parts of Africa. Did you have an additional point you wished to make or a solution you wish to offer?

    elissa (b7fb30)

  8. Re 6.
    He killed four men and two women. He was a nut…

    Gazzer (554004)

  9. Comment by Michael Ejercito (becea5) — 5/25/2014 @ 10:25 am
    If you intended that to be funny, I did not find it so.
    If you intended that to be serious, I think you are wrong.

    I heard a report that his parents tried to warn police that he was going to go berserk.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  10. “Yeah carba. There is. And it’s rampant mostly in the middle east and certain parts of Africa. Did you have an additional point you wished to make or a solution you wish to offer?”

    I wasn’t suggesting we should be the world’s policemen. But starting with American kids could work.

    carba (b0bffa)

  11. ==I heard a report that his parents tried to warn police that he was going to go berserk==

    MD. See my comment 36 on the Mariachi thread that devolved a bit into the Santa Barbara subject.

    elissa (b7fb30)

  12. virginity is deadly.

    Michael, I don’t know if that’s just a bit of a stretch, any less than to say that because he had a gun proves why the NRA should be ashamed of itself. But perhaps the GLBT crowd can enter the scene, however, since there were “metrosexual” or perhaps sexually ambiguous aspects of Rodger’s background and demeanor.

    another-leftist-killer%E2%9E%99-santa-barbara-shooter-elliot-rodger-was-fan-young-turks-channel/

    His ideology, if it can be called that, certainly didn’t lean right, or wasn’t of normative conservatism. If anything — with its emphasis on victimization and fairness — it leaned left. It therefore reminds me of the story of Jared Loughner, the shooter of the Democrat Congresswoman in Arizona, who the MSM originally pegged as being perhaps a rightist. Only a bit later did it come out that his high-school classmates describe Loughner as having liberal opinions.

    Mark (99b8fd)

  13. There’s definitely a world out there where this misogyny stews. Where women are “sluts” that men feel entitled to. It’s a damn shame to let that continue.

    This does beg the question as to why he did not rape a girl to vent out his frustrations. But when you realize that the motivation for rape has nothing to do with sex and everything to do with power, it is crystal clear. Killing a bunch of people would cause more harm, therefore, would gain more perceived power than rape.

    Michael Ejercito (becea5)

  14. Police (sheriff) cleared him after a cursory interview that came after his parents expressed concern to LE about his plans and mental state. It was all there to find. The guns and the videos.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1268574/elliot-rodger-did-police-miss-their-chance

    elissa (b7fb30)

  15. 14. That police interview also might have convinced him he had only a short time to act, or he’d be prevented.

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  16. Damn, carba. And I thought I was stupid.

    Women are wicked when you’re unwanted
    When you’re strange, when you’re strange

    Girls probably called him a creep, and wouldn’t have anything to do with him. Hookers too, they’re even more expert at spotting psychos.

    nk (dbc370)

  17. So, carba what laws would you enact to prevent this
    ? He was seeing a shrink, he was interviewed by the cops, his family knew he was nuts and he lived in one of the toughest states to get a gun. Yet, he managed it.

    Gazzer (554004)

  18. ? He was seeing a shrink, he was interviewed by the cops, his family knew he was nuts and he lived in one of the toughest states to get a gun. Yet, he managed it.

    We could mnake it illegal to be mentally ill. It is not as if mental illness is a civil right.

    Michael Ejercito (becea5)

  19. 3. …Abstinence advocates keep saying that premarital sex causes emotional harm. But it is clear that, from this example, virginity is deadly.

    Comment by Michael Ejercito (becea5) — 5/25/2014 @ 10:25 am

    Whoa. Slow down, pilgrim. You’re riding too fast.

    Abstinence advocates advocate teaching people to value abstinence.

    Abstain because you want to abstain. Voluntarily remain a virgin.

    That clearly wasn’t the case here. A raging horndogger desperately wanted some, and couldn’t get none. That’s different. That’s not abstinence; that’s being cut off.

    Steve57 (4e729f)

  20. If rejection and involuntary abstinence is a precursor to murder and mayhem, we have a concentration of nerds in the Silicon Valley that bear serious monitoring.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  21. Heh, I am involuntarily sane! Darn that conscience.

    felipe (098e97)

  22. ==His ideology, if it can be called that, certainly didn’t lean right, or wasn’t of normative conservatism. If anything — with its emphasis on victimization and fairness — it leaned left.==-

    Mark–maybe just this once you could cut down a bit on the “ideology meme”. I think it’s safe to say that politics was not his game. Reminder to all–He was clearly severely mentally ill. He was also reportedly undersized and had been diagnosed with a form of autism which likely at least contributed to his social isolation and lack of success with women.

    elissa (b7fb30)

  23. If rejection and involuntary abstinence is a precursor to murder and mayhem, we have a concentration of nerds in the Silicon Valley that bear serious monitoring.

    Indeed. We must be vigilant against them.

    That clearly wasn’t the case here. A raging horndogger desperately wanted some, and couldn’t get none. That’s different. That’s not abstinence; that’s being cut off.

    I wonder if the left leadership will call for more equitable distribution of pussy, as they already call for equal distribution of wealth.

    Michael Ejercito (becea5)

  24. ==I wasn’t suggesting we should be the world’s policemen. But starting with American kids could work.==

    Carba, he wasn’t a classic “American kid” He was a sick fook. How do you “start with” that?

    elissa (b7fb30)

  25. maybe just this once you could cut down a bit on the “ideology meme”.

    For one thing, Elissa, I have no doubt that a large portion of the MSM and its biggest sycophants in the political world will politicize this case, as they’ve done with others. So I want to get out in front of those people and make sure the reality of Elliot Rodger is firmly clarified at the beginning.

    Another thing is the common thread of so many of these killers having a political bent that leans left. That fascinates me, if only because it plays into the hands of the quip that liberalism is a form of mental illness.

    Rodger, incidentally, in his very lengthy diary or “manifesto” does say that he chooses to not be too verbal about his politics because he thinks that will bother certain people around him.

    Mark (99b8fd)

  26. I wonder if the left leadership will call for more equitable distribution of pussy

    The slippery slope in this day and age can be neither too slippery nor too tilted.

    Mark (99b8fd)

  27. Don’t discount the fact that Rogers was the son of a Hollywood movie director and knew full well the revealing videos he produced and the whinny written account of his short lonely life would endure long after the details of his deadly rampage faded into memory: Rogers carefully recorded a series of self-serving rationalizations for mass murder and left a segmented script, an extended suicide note, to cover an ugly truth.

    As I viewed his videos it seemed he was play acting, trying to create an entirely false impression. Rogers wasn’t crazy, he was cold, malicious, and calculatingly evil.

    ropelight (5dcfc2)

  28. There is an argument for suppressing videos and statements of this sort, and instead heaping public derision on the shooter. Make it clear that one won’t be remembered as they choose to be remembered, but instead as a suicidal loser who killed people.

    Kevin M (b357ee)

  29. He was sent up there by himself with a BMW to go to Santa Barbara City College, a two-year junior college. Did anyone tell him he should check his privilege?

    AZ Bob (533fbc)

  30. He is a sociopath, note I haven’t mentioned his name,

    narciso (3fec35)

  31. boyfriend shoulda just sprung for a hooker I think

    there’s real nice ones in California you see them at Ralph’s all the time

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  32. Let’s not discount the influence that the Koch Brothers had in all of this.
    Or whatever.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  33. mister happy, maybe you need to move out of the north hollywood/van nuys area.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  34. The more I read, the more I think this guy was just plain evil, not nuts.

    Gazzer (554004)

  35. 23. …I wonder if the left leadership will call for more equitable distribution of pussy, as they already call for equal distribution of wealth.

    Comment by Michael Ejercito (becea5) — 5/25/2014 @ 12:37 pm

    By Jove, I think you’ve hit on something. If “Abstinence Culture” is the problem, then clearly the girls this guy fancied who wouldn’t scrog like goats upon request were the immediate culprits.

    Now that Barack Obama has the Catholic Church providing you with birth control and abortifacients, ladies, you have no excuse not to put out.

    It’s a public safety issue.

    And how dare you impose your religious valuse on me by not delivering up free sex!

    Steve57 (4e729f)

  36. By Jove, I think you’ve hit on something. If “Abstinence Culture” is the problem, then clearly the girls this guy fancied who wouldn’t scrog like goats upon request were the immediate culprits.

    Now that Barack Obama has the Catholic Church providing you with birth control and abortifacients, ladies, you have no excuse not to put out.

    It’s a public safety issue.

    And how dare you impose your religious valuse on me by not delivering up free sex!

    Indeed. It is not like redistribution of wealth, where the wealth is no longer possessed after it is redistributed. This does beg the question of why generosity is not considered a virtue when it comes to sex.

    Michael Ejercito (becea5)

  37. Who knew at the end of Caddyshack when Rodney Dangerfield exclaimed, “Hey everybody, we’re all gonna get laid,” we were witnessing the birth of the future of public policy.

    Steve57 (4e729f)

  38. Free sex.

    It’s not just a good idea.

    It’s the law.

    Steve57 (4e729f)

  39. Sorry if anyone thinks I’m being silly, juvenile, or not taking serious issues seriously.

    But then I didn’t vote to put the Columbia University student council in charge of this country. Twice.

    Now that’s being silly, juvenile, and not taking serious issues seriously.

    Steve57 (4e729f)

  40. I would be happy to have my federal tax dollars used to pay for lefties to use birth control, as long as there was some way to ensure that the lefties would actually use it.

    I don’t want them generating offspring.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  41. i’m way over in the s.e. corner of noho i really like it here

    i wish the “noho arts district” would get its act together though

    there’s a couple knitting factory bars doing well, which is a good sign, but it has a long ways to go

    somewhere not far from here there’s a bad infestation of section 8 trash though, and that’s really challenging for a neighborhood

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  42. that’s nothing feets: my neighbors have to leave near *me*…

    8-)

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  43. there’s real nice ones in California you see them at Ralph’s all the time

    when i w*rked up in Chatsworthless, i’d often see some of the local movie stars at the store….

    stunning, in an artificial sort of way. but their eyes were cold.

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  44. It really makes me ill to see how things like this are turned into a political football. It cheapens and trivializes the deaths of innocent people.

    I have seen people shrieking all over the Internet that this is a white privilege thing (though the sick kid was half Asian—by the way, did you see Toure’s latest bizarreness, saying that Jews survived the death camps because of white privilege?), that this is a gun control issue, a misogyny issue… I have even seen twittertypes get the facts wrong, claiming the nutjob killed only women, etc.

    Look: I wasn’t Mr. Lady’s Man in college, and my brother never dated at all in college. It never occurred to me or to him to butcher people from our BMW. Then you have serial killers like Bundy who were very successful with women and still killed like crazy. Crazy is crazy.

    And the nutcase’s father takes semi-nude photos of women “artistically,” so I might gently suggest here were more than a few kinks in the family’s psychological garden hose.

    You know, it is funny. When a dog goes “crazy” and bites a bunch of children, there isn’t any discussion of what was “behind the incident.” The crazy canine gets incarcerated, and then usually put down so that no more kids get bitten.

    This is just a crazy kid, and I think it is proper that his name NOT be used. And considering he killed three people with a knife, I don’t know why the gun issue is in the forefront. Without a knife, he would have used his car (as happened in SB a few years ago—notice that it was the son of another Hollywood type: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Isla_Vista_massacre). Failing a car, he probably would have used a baseball bat. Crazy is crazy.

    But…there are LOTS of people who want to use this tragedy to advance political agendas. Teh Narrative™, uber alles.

    Again, this is why extraterrestrials don’t visit. We are messed up as a culture, and it might be catching.

    Simon Jester (ef750f)

  45. i love chatsworth

    i just would hate to live there

    but it’ll have its day again I bet, just not anytime soon

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  46. it can get a tad windy there, and it has been known to rain a bit as well… %-)

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  47. I’ve talked to my attorney. We’re going to be filing the papers immediately after Memorial
    Day.

    Stacey Dash has been violating my civil rights by not sleeping with me from the time I first saw her in “Clueless” back in the mid ’90s.

    I demand she cease and desist this unreasonable and unconstitutional behavior.

    The offer has been on the table since 1998. Dinner and perhaps drinks at Taco Cabana, then, hubba hubba!

    Ok, the offer was in the past few years modified due the the closure of local Blockbusters. So she gets to choose the flick from the nearest Red Box or perhaps Netflix or similar online provider.

    But that’s a minor technicality.

    The point is that by not sleeping with me Stacey Dash is not doing her part to combat gun violence. Or to improve race relations.

    I will no longer stand idly by as Stacey Dash imposes her Christo-fascist values on me.

    Steve57 (4e729f)

  48. red, folks always remember this lyric,

    It never rains in California, but forget this part,

    But girl don’t they warn ya
    It pours, man it pours

    Gazzer (554004)

  49. By definition, doing something like this makes you a nut.

    Gun control policy inhibits access to guns by nuts. If the notion that random carnage is an acceptable trade for gun shows, I’m willing to listen. It would be interesting to hear the tradeoffs. How much are you valuing each victim? How do you value the ownership? Is there some middle ground?

    If a nut with a demonstrated problem can buy and kill, what’s wrong with pot?

    Snip (031824)

  50. 44. It really makes me ill to see how things like this are turned into a political football. It cheapens and trivializes the deaths of innocent people.

    …Again, this is why extraterrestrials don’t visit. We are messed up as a culture, and it might be catching.

    Comment by Simon Jester (ef750f) — 5/25/2014 @ 3:17 pm

    You can’t walk around with that ill feeling all the time. Perhaps this addresses elissa’s concern when she recently commented “bless my heart” but it’s a lost cause. Yes, but fighting the good fight makes me feel better for a while. I guess it’s like taking an Alka Seltzer when you have an ulcer.

    Peter van Uhm: Why I chose a gun

    Netherlands Defense chief General van Uhm is mostly sane. But he’s speaking to the insane. He has to say he hates guns. But this is not a quality you want in a warrior. I loved every rifle I ever decided to keep (if it couldn’t shoot straight or fit me, I didn’t keep it). I loved the F-14, and because I loved the F-14 I learned to use the mighty, mighty AWG-9 (I was never in a paid flight status). I loved my ships (as long as they were good ships; I wouldn’t love the LCS or the USS Murtha aka “the fat bastard”).

    You can not hate your tools and still expect the artisan to use them well. Why would you expect a rifleman to hate his rifle, when you wouldn’t expect a painter to hate his brushes?

    I have seen this insanity in action across the board. For instance, when I first became involved in politics. And I confronted teh racisms. Black “community leaders” in the best Sharpton fashion would say things like, “We need to listen to the people with the problem.”

    No. No we don’t. Not unless we are in love with the problem. Unless we are interested in perpetuating the problem, we need to listen to people who don’t have the problem. So we can find the solution.

    I have zero confidence aliens will be visiting us in the near future, Mr. Jester, based upon what we keep voting for.

    Steve57 (4e729f)

  51. “Girls probably called him a creep, and wouldn’t have anything to do with him.”

    They were right!

    “So, carba what laws would you enact to prevent this”

    It’s not really a matter of passing laws to take on misogyny. Trivializing the harm it causes with stuff like this is toxic enough:

    “The point is that by not sleeping with me Stacey Dash is not doing her part to combat gun violence. Or to improve race relations.”

    “He was sent up there by himself with a BMW to go to Santa Barbara City College, a two-year junior college. Did anyone tell him he should check his privilege?”

    If there ever was someone that needed this, it would be this guy.

    carba (b0bffa)

  52. Needed what. He was a garden variety evil person. We get them sometimes. See Bundy, T.

    Gazzer (554004)

  53. Since left wingers believe that requiring photo ID at the voting booth is “racist,” I’m certain we’ll hear them argue that photo ID should no longer be required for purchasing guns.
    Or something.

    Elephant Stone (76c85c)

  54. “If the notion that random carnage is an acceptable trade for gun shows, I’m willing to listen.”

    Snip – Don’t understand how gun shows promote random carnage. Can you explain this theory please?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  55. gun shows are good cause you can get a good overview of all the different products and learn about the advantages and disadvantages of each

    it’s all about becoming an informed consumer

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  56. Snip #49,

    It actually sounds like you’re arguing against free will.
    Maybe one day, left wingers will finally discover there is no way to eliminate human frailties from humanity—no matter how many government programs or re-education camps they devise.
    Anyone could get hit by a bus, or die in a car crash, due to an inattentive or drunken driver.
    But nobody talks about outlawing buses or cars, do they ?
    As Dennis Prager often reminds listeners, one evil person can have much greater impact upon society one good person can.
    Ultimately, we cannot legislate against evil or crazy.

    The irony about left wingers getting their underpants all bunched up about guns, is that they’re willing to give the green light to Iran’s nuclear program.
    And Boko Haram is running around with guns, but that doesn’t appear to bother too many lefties.

    Elephant Stone (76c85c)

  57. 54. “If the notion that random carnage is an acceptable trade for gun shows, I’m willing to listen.”

    Snip – Don’t understand how gun shows promote random carnage. Can you explain this theory please?

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/25/2014 @ 4:39 pm

    Kinda sorta the point. I don’t hate guns. I hate people who use guns to take hundreds of Nigerian girls slaves.

    Which, let’s face it, is what happens to Coptic girls on a smaller scale but daily basis in Egypt.

    Hmm. Is there a unifying principle we might discern in play?

    Oh. Right. Guns.

    We hate all the wrong things.

    Steve57 (4e729f)

  58. hillary clinton refused to call boko haram terroists but she’s a stupid hoochie with tits out to here and she never slept with me her whole life and you know what?

    it’s all good

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  59. *terrorists* I mean

    that’s what hillary clinton refused to call the boko haram

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  60. Note I am not suing Hillary! for not sleeping with me.

    Just women with their own lingerie lines, who look good in their own lingerie.

    I’m striking a blow for freedom here. You gotta pick your battles.

    Steve57 (4e729f)

  61. i saw the sign and it opened up my eyes and i am happy now

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  62. Mr. feets, I am first suing the evil capitalists who try to get me to buy their lingerie for my baby mommas on Valentine’s Day, but don’t have the decency to let me road test their wares in person.

    But the second tier is going to involve teh supermodels. Perhaps you’d like to join the class action suit I’ll be bringing against the girls in the Victoria’s Secret catalog.

    Steve57 (4e729f)

  63. Dear Sandra Fluke,

    If I’m paying for your birth control, then it is only ‘fairness’ if I get to use it.
    So, you bring the birth control, and I’ll bring the paper bag to place over your head.
    Thanks.

    Signed,

    John Q. Citizen

    Elephant Stone (76c85c)

  64. it’s amazing what Victoria’s Secret has done with their branding

    they started out as an upscale version of “Spencer Gifts”

    but what can i say

    crazy sh*t happens in the shopping malls of failmerica

    hide your kids hide your wife

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  65. 61. i saw the sign and it opened up my eyes and i am happy now

    Comment by happyfeet (8ce051) — 5/25/2014 @ 5:02 pm

    Don’t tell the Mullahs. That’s the kind of BS that will land you in prison in Iran.

    Free Happy Iranians – Original uploaded Tehran version of Pharrell Williams – Happy – video

    Steve57 (4e729f)

  66. 65. ,,,crazy sh*t happens in the shopping malls of failmerica

    hide your kids hide your wife

    Comment by happyfeet (8ce051) — 5/25/2014 @ 5:15 pm

    IKEA too.

    You can’t blame that on failmerikkka.

    Focus, people. Focus.

    Steve57 (4e729f)

  67. Yes, the original creator, Roy Raden (sic), sold the company to the Limited, who tailored it to sell to women, he subsequently threw himself off the golden gate bridge,

    narciso (3fec35)

  68. i haven’t been to IKEA since they jacked up the price of the meatballs

    they damn proud of them meatballs

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  69. mister happy, do the IKEA meatballs come with instructions on how to put them together ? i sure hope no pressed wood is involved. or whatever.

    Elephant Stone (76c85c)

  70. They have new Swedish meatballs that are cow fart free and thus good for the environment. That’s gonna cost.

    I wasn’t a huge fan of the old meatballs so I don’t see myself racing down there.

    An aside; that CNN link I provided to the arrested Iranians encapsulates a personal pet peeve.

    Reporting on who is getting arrested for what in Tehran from your Cairo bureau is kind of like reporting on what Arizona is doing to put out a forest fire from your Cleveland bureau.

    Steve57 (4e729f)

  71. ES – Two bagger at a minimum.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  72. Cleveland, Ohio, bureau. On America’s fabulous north coast. Just in case there are minor Clevelands elsewhere, closer to the blazing forest, which might obscure the point.

    Steve57 (4e729f)

  73. daley,

    …and the lights off, too.
    So that TMZ nobody would see me with her.

    Elephant Stone (76c85c)

  74. The surveillance agencies have the IR imaging equipment, ES.

    Steve57 (4e729f)

  75. I suggest tunneling. A barrier of 2.5 meters of earth or greater should prove effective, if privacy is the goal. And at least two bags.

    Steve57 (4e729f)

  76. swedish meatballs at ikea are about 7 times more america than an in-n-out double double made with spite by a food stamp-dependent public school-educated ill-dressed pregnant illegal immigrant

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  77. i also suggest tunneling

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  78. Steve,

    Since you’re a vet, allow me to ask you this.
    Does it bother you when the Prez lazily conflates Memorial Day with Veterans Day during his public statements ? He’s done it in the past—I expect him to do so at some point tomorrow, too.
    My feeling is they are two distinct holidays—one celebrates veterans in general, while the other celebrates those who explicitly fell in war.
    Unfortunately, Memorial Day seems to have become a celebration of hot dogs and Natty Light, at the expense of focus on the true meaning of the holiday. Where’s Linus of the Peanuts Gang to wax philosophical about the ‘true meaning’ of a holiday, when you really need him ?

    Elephant Stone (76c85c)

  79. Way, way too much work for Sandra Fluke, IMHO.

    Steve57 (4e729f)

  80. since Otis Jackson’s Soul Dog closed

    ( http://www.yelp.com/biz/otis-jacksons-soul-dog-north-hollywood )

    there *IS* no celebration of the hot dog

    don’t you understand?

    it’s just so tragic and wrong

    america isn’t even america anymore

    memorial day indeed

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  81. You are mistaken, Happy. These guys are keeping the faith.

    felipe (098e97)

  82. ES @79, does it bother me when President Miley “Intercontinental Railroad” Cyrus confuses Veteran’s Day with Memorial Day?

    Barack Obama Sees Dead People

    Yeah, kind of. Like when President Ditherington Thumbuphis@$$ can’t be bothered to get “corpse-man” right.

    It’s kind of down on the list, though. And if these kinds of things hugely bothered me the Marines would have weeded me out of AOCS in the first week.

    Steve57 (4e729f)

  83. Gun control policy inhibits access to guns by nuts. If the notion that random carnage is an acceptable trade for gun shows, I’m willing to listen. It would be interesting to hear the tradeoffs. How much are you valuing each victim? How do you value the ownership? Is there some middle ground?

    Then we should institute nut control. We can start by requiring them to register with tyhe state. We can make them wear distinctive armbands, and make it a capital crime for them to refuse. We can ban them from certain professions, such as the practice of medicine, law, or engineering, and make it a capital crime for them to break this law. We can restrict where they live, and make it a capital crime for them to live in forbidden areas. We can restrict foreign nuts from immigrating to my country.

    Make no mistake, these people are not just the enemies of the United States; these people are enemies of humanity.

    Unlike gun contriol laws, nut control laws are subject only to rational basis scrutiny. There is no right to be a nut, and classifications based on nutiness are not suspect. Under rational basis, a legislative choice is not subject to courtroom factfinding and “may be based on rational speculation unsupported by evidence or empirical data”, See FCC v. Beach Communications, 508 U.S. 307 at 315 (1993) A legislator can rationally believe that nuts are a threat to all humanity, and that will justify such proposals.

    Michael Ejercito (becea5)

  84. This was a man who was talking publicly (at least so it became known to members of his family) about murdering people.

    The quesiton of why he did it?

    Probably he sensed that time was running out.

    That sort of thing always pressures people. That
    s why going out of business sales sometimes cause purchases.

    There are a few cases, where old age did that to people. One person who was 88 years old, who shot up the Holocaust Museum, and another in his 70s who had emphysema and went and attacked some people the other day.

    Anyway, here:

    http://news.sky.com/story/1268574/elliot-rodger-did-police-miss-their-chance

    In his rambling online ‘manifesto’, Rodger describes his relief that his plans for murder had not been discovered.

    “I had the striking and devastating fear that someone had somehow discovered what I was planning to do, and reported me for it,” wrote the 22-year-old.

    So, going to the police was kind of the worst thing to do, if his thoughts also included suicide.

    http://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/if_youre_going_to_shoot_the_king_dont_miss

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  85. “When you strike (at) a king you must kill him” has been very popular with politicians and with lawyers. The saying has often been applied to a politician seeking to change the leadership in his or her political party. If the “king” is not “killed,” the party leaders will seek revenge.

    It also applies to going to the police because you think somebody is crazy and is going to kill people.

    If you’re right, but you can’t prove it….

    http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/25/justice/california-shooting-deaths/

    This may happen:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-27556097

    But this won’t happen:

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0181689/

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  86. Book Haram, last I checked, had no US outpost.

    Gun shows were an example, I think intentionally missed.

    Let’s assume guns for everyone. Everywhere. Is dinner now safer or more enjoyable because everyone is armed?

    Remember that cops in NYC failed to protect anyone, instead shooting a lot of random people. For instance. And they were supposed to be trained.

    Untrained folks walking around with guns, well, feel free to do that in your neighborhood. Personally, I do have one and use it at ranges and at a place my family owns, I feel no need to carry in a large city. Escalating is a bad idea, and despite living in what many would consider a bad neighborhood, have not had an issue.

    Understanding risk can be difficult, but it isn’t impossible.

    Snip (031824)

  87. 190 proof stupidity, right there. It’s not only difficult to know where to start, it’s difficult to answer the question, “Should I even start?”

    Steve57 (4e729f)

  88. Snip, do you get paid for this?

    Steve57 (4e729f)

  89. Bite us, Snip. Your gun shows BS is just that — BS. What you want is “Jill, just get yourself a double-barreled shotgun and fire a couple of rounds out the window”. ["Until we take that away from you too."] You anti-gun clowns start dancing on the dead before the bodies have cooled. Take it to the Brady Bunch website — you have no takers here.

    nk (dbc370)

  90. nk, go on and guess how many Nigerian school girls my guns have forced me to take as slaves? Really! Try and guess.

    Steve57 (4e729f)

  91. spin can read this to start. Supposed to be trained is sadly very true. Most guns owners I know practice way more than cops. But then, we don’t have a union.
    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/01/robert-farago/new-study-police-firearms-training-sucks/

    Gazzer (554004)

  92. Not for Snip, for the serious.

    1) “Gun show loophole” is hoplophobic for “sales through dealer only”. 2) This freak killed three of his victims with knives.

    nk (dbc370)

  93. Oops, snip, I mean. How Freudian.

    Gazzer (554004)

  94. “Transfers through dealers only”. There’s a story in the news, now, where paramedics cannot return a gun they inventoried in an auto accident to the owner because Ohio? says it has to go through a dealer.

    nk (dbc370)

  95. nk, it’s important to note that the “gun show loophole” was a deliberate selling point for prior gun control legislation.

    As in, too get votes, the Democrats deliberately excluded certain transactions from background checks. Such as private transaction by non FFL licencees.

    Now they are calling these provisions that were necessary exceptions to pass laws then “loopholes.” This is like saying anyone who drives under the speed limit is exploiting a “loophole.” Because they haven’t yet outlawed driving at speeds in excess of 45.

    Why is it bad form for me to call such people (if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor) liars and scum?

    Steve57 (4e729f)

  96. 95. …There’s a story in the news, now, where paramedics cannot return a gun they inventoried in an auto accident to the owner because Ohio? says it has to go through a dealer.

    Comment by nk (dbc370) — 5/25/2014 @ 8:24 pm

    Some of the gun control legislation the Democrats tried to push through following Sandy Hook would have criminalized basic gun safety.

    If you are crossing a fence or similar obstacle, and you are hunting with someone else, it is an article of gun safety to hand your gun to your partner. Cross the obstacle. Then take both guns and hold them while your partner crosses.

    So that the guy crossing the obstacle doesn’t trip, fall, whatever, and shoots somebody.

    The Democrats would have made such simple acts felonies. Because you didn’t stop by a gun store and run a background check on your hunting partner. Letting your hunting partner hold your shotgun would have been a “gun transfer” under the law. They only exempted such temporary transfers at licensed gun ranges.

    Guess what? No hunting takes place at gun ranges. Game animals being somewhat put off by the noise. And not being stupid.

    Steve57 (4e729f)

  97. Or if you are a farmer you cannot lend a rifle to an employee for rodent hunting.

    Gazzer (554004)

  98. The truth is we need to find people like Elliot Rodger before they commit crimes.

    There is no constitutional right to be socially awkward, or a weirdo, or a loser. We need to pass laws controlling them, placing them under the thumb of law enforcement. People like Elliot Rodger are the enemies of all humanity, and our laws should treat them as such.

    Michael Ejercito (becea5)

  99. That too, Gazzer. But I thought the insanity of “universal background checks” was better illustrated by the simple gun-safety hand offs that hunters every day deal with just to make hunting possible.

    What they breezily called “common sense” would have made any hunter guilty of dozens of felonies a day.

    This was not by accident.

    Steve57 (4e729f)

  100. Young liberals seem to be frustrated for some reason.

    I could say that maybe parents should teach their young male children to be men. That would be unfair, though. This kid may have been mentally disturbed despite his parent’s best intentions.

    However, I will say that teaching young men to be good young men is important.

    Condemning them as racist, thugs, rapists and misogynists every day for no other reason than to make political points is not only a disservice to young men, it is a disservice to culture.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  101. let’s be honest: “gun control” is all about control, and not so much the guns.

    yes, they want to make it difficult, if not impossible, to own or use firearms, but the underlying motivation is to have the populace helpless and dependent on the all knowing and magnanimous state.

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  102. Michael @99, truth is we do need to find people like Elliot Rodger. But we don’t need to build a Gulag for them.

    Steve57 (4e729f)

  103. Three hundred million people. Fifteen thousand will be murdered every year. Their murderers will always have an explanation. Most explanations will not make sense to normal people.

    nk (dbc370)

  104. Michael @99, truth is we do need to find people like Elliot Rodger. But we don’t need to build a Gulag for them.

    I am writing more about, say, laws requiring them to register, laws requiring them to wear special armbands, laws banning them from certain professions like law and medicine and teaching, laws restricting where they live. There is no civil right to be a creep or a weirdo or mentally disturbed, so these laws would be constitutional.

    Michael Ejercito (becea5)

  105. Remember the 2001 “driving massacre” in Santa Barbara?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Isla_Vista_massacre

    That particular crazoid was the son of a Hollywood television director.

    Four dead, one critically injured.

    And the current Santa Barbara crazy is the son of an movie director.

    Hmmmm….

    Perhaps we should outlaw children of Hollywood directors from attending UCSB.

    If we can save even just one life, isn’t it worth it?

    Simon Jester (fecb62)

  106. 106. If we can save even just one life, isn’t it worth it?

    Comment by Simon Jester (fecb62) — 5/25/2014 @ 11:11 pm

    Think your friends will stick around for the Benghazi investigation. I’d really like to see that.

    Steve57 (4e729f)

  107. Pounding the table, demanding to know, at this point, why it matters.

    Heroically.

    Steve57 (4e729f)

  108. FooBar sure has been excited recently. And imdw.

    JD (67cbaf)

  109. they wave ‘the bloody shirt’ because they know a series of incidents like Dunblane and Port Arthur,
    were instances where ‘you don’t let a crisis, go to waste’

    narciso (3fec35)

  110. If they’re illegally purchased guns, then gun laws don’t work. If they’re legally purchased guns, then…

    carba (b0bffa)

  111. JD – Which ones were Fubar?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  112. Maybe it’s a good idea to require prospective gun buyers to pass a comprehensive examination to determine their mental fitness to use a fire arm responsibly. I’d be for it as long as voters, college applicants, journalists, movie directors, bloggers, meter maids, appointed and elected office seekers, auto repairmen, cops, judges, DAs, dog catchers, tow truck drivers, life guards, and driver’s license applicants were also included.

    ropelight (79161d)

  113. This is not about guns. This is about a hydrophobic skunk in the yard.

    nk (dbc370)

  114. If you read some of what he wrote, his intended victims were going to be, “the hottest sorority house at UCSB and . . . every single spoiled, stuck-up, blond slut I see inside there. All those girls I’ve desired so much. They have all rejected me and looked down on me as an inferior man if I ever made a sexual advance toward them, while they throw themselves at these obnoxious brutes.” But for me, this was the most telling part of what he wrote:

    I continued searching for a job, but I still wasn’t able to find one. . . . The problem was that most of the jobs that were available to me at the time were jobs I considered to be beneath me. My mother wanted me to get a simple retail job, and the thought of myself doing that was mortifying. It would be completely against my character. I am an intellectual who is destined for greatness. I would never perform a low-class service job.

    I’d bet a case of Mountain Dew that the girls who might have been interested in him were also “beneath” him. He was short and not athletic, but his target girls — unfortunate pun realized while writing, but still sadly appropriate — were the “the hottest sorority house ” girls, the girls who were apparently way out of his league. The not-so-hot girls, the nerd girls, the ones with whom he might have had a chance, if he had only tried, weren’t good enough for him.

    Ours is a society fixated on beauty, and every cultural message we receive is full of model-type women, and men, but the vast majority of us know in which league we can play. (Of course, I still married up! :) )

    The alpha dog Dana (af9ec3)

  115. That’s right, nk. But you know the saying: “Never let a crisis go to waste.”

    Simon Jester (fecb62)

  116. Simon, the kid was going to a junior college in Santa Barbara, not UCSB. He couldn’t even get into a UC school. I understand the parents are even blaming the NRA. Losers all.

    Mike K (cd7278)

  117. What kind of a guy says mortifying? Reading that passage from Lucky-in-Love Dana, Waldo Lydecker as played by Clifton Webb in “Laura” came to my mind. And there are other similarities to that movie, too.

    nk (dbc370)

  118. I think it’s fair to say that “self-awareness” was not his long suit. And again, with his spectrum diagnosis in mind one really has to wonder what his self -described “sexual advances” may have consisted of. His approach may have been anything from creepily overtly out there to something so subtle that no one but he knew they were “sexual advances”. (I’m betting on the former, though.)

    elissa (d3e439)

  119. Well aside from his mental imbalance, the guy had a bad case of the short man’s disease. (I know that’s “heightist” but there are lot of little Napoleons out there.}

    As a society we’re also harvesting the bitter wheat of a decision 50 years ago to focus on the “rights” of the mentally ill to sleep on the streets free of the confines of a mental hospital.

    Skeptical Voter (12e67d)

  120. “I understand the parents are even blaming the NRA. Losers all.”

    That’s the parent of a victim.

    carba (b0bffa)

  121. “Ours is a society fixated on beauty, and every cultural message we receive is full of model-type women, and men, but the vast majority of us know in which league we can play”

    It does seem like this guy failed at the one thing he had to work for: getting affection. Money, car, looks, that was all just given, not worked for.

    carba (b0bffa)

  122. Mike K.– If you’ve seen some reliable reporting or quote that the parents of the shooter are blaming the NRA, too, I’d like to view your source. Do you recall where you might have seen it? I was under the impression that it was the father of the male gunshot victim who was doing the bash the NRA thing.

    elissa (d3e439)

  123. That (1944 version) was a terrific movie, nk. It had a beautiful, haunting theme song too.

    elissa (d3e439)

  124. The father of slain UCSB English major, Christopher Michaels-Martinez thinks it’s about guns, he blames craven, irresponsible politicians and the NRA.

    Richard Martinez wants to know:

    When will this insanity stop? When will enough people say, ‘Stop this madness.’ We do not have to live like this. Too many people have died.

    I don’t deny the pain and grief Martinez and his family and the parents and families of the other victims of Rogers bloodthirsty rampage are suffering at the senseless loss of their sons and daughters, but I do note that not once did he name his son’s killer. Martinez was myopically focused on the gun. He never mentioned the 3 other students Elliot Rogers murdered in a knife attack on his roommates, or 4 more students he mowed down with his BMW. Martinez couldn’t bring himself to confront the fact of his son’s death at the hands of a young man outwardly little different than his own son Christopher.

    Martinez went on to warn other parents and harp again on guns:

    Our family has a message for every parent out there: You don’t think it’ll happen to your child until it does…They talk about gun rights. What about Chris’ right to live? When will this insanity stop?

    No one has yet answered his question, the pain is too raw, the injury too great, compassion for his loss too widespread, but the obvious answer is coming and Martinez won’t like it.

    ropelight (79161d)

  125. 121. Comment by Skeptical Voter (12e67d) — 5/26/2014 @ 7:28 am

    we’re also harvesting the bitter wheat of a decision 50 years ago to focus on the “rights” of the mentally ill to sleep on the streets free of the confines of a mental hospital.

    Tell me something: If there wasn’t enough evidence to get a search warrant, how could there be enough evidence to lock him up, indefinitely, without charges and without a trial?

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  126. 114. Comment by ropelight (79161d) — 5/26/2014 @ 6:53 am

    Maybe it’s a good idea to require prospective gun buyers to pass a comprehensive examination to determine their mental fitness to use a fire arm responsibly.

    That won’t work, because the examnination would be nonsense.

    What would work, would be to require 3 or 10 people, which must include members of both sexes, to sign a notarized form that they know the person who wants to have a gun, and tghat they believe no crime will be committed with it within 3 years (language that includes even having the gun stolen) with some kind of penalty applied if they are wrong, so that nobody will want to casually sign it or sign it in exchange for money..

    And also that one of those people can not avoid the penalty by retracting their signature and informing the police as to why.

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  127. Elliot Rodgers was insane. He had been in treatment since age 8. His parents tried everything. The killings have nothing to do with everyday notions of romantic frustration or sexual hunger.

    To the credit of his parents (who were on their way up to SB to try and stop him that night when they heard the news) their statement focused on the need to get help for the chronically mentally ill. If you know anyone with mental illness in their family you know what they’re talking about.

    Repeat, Elliot Rodgers was insane.

    Patricia (be0117)

  128. https://medium.com/@_cynar/e1ab72960018

    “The Violently Mental Ill
    are dangerous—just ask their families”

    It’s the same story over and over again.

    SarahW (267b14)

  129. 87. Comment by Snip (031824) — 5/25/2014 @ 8:04 pm

    Remember that cops in NYC failed to protect anyone, instead shooting a lot of random people. For instance. And they were supposed to be trained.

    What are you talking about? The time somebody killed somebody and then calmly walked around the corner, and two people followed him quietly and informed the policemen standing outside the Empire State Building.

    What they did is they confronted him, which I think was a mistake, and he started to pull put his gun, and they fired and they killed him but they also wounded maybe none other people, becaue they fired so many bullets because the guns they have now fire too many bullets too fast.

    In cases like this: you have to think: “What happens if I’m right?”

    This is not properly game planned.

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  130. I have no desire to infringe on gun owners’ rights; but we need to find a way to keep as many dangerous people as possible from having access to guns. It’s more than past time for this discussion instead of screeching from the right and left.

    JEA (fb1111)

  131. What would work, would be to require 3 or 10 people, which must include members of both sexes, to sign a notarized form that they know the person who wants to have a gun, and tghat they believe no crime will be committed with it within 3 years (language that includes even having the gun stolen) with some kind of penalty applied if they are wrong, so that nobody will want to casually sign it or sign it in exchange for money..

    Will the President have to sign this form for every firearm in the Secret Service armory?

    Michael Ejercito (becea5)

  132. Skeptical Voter,

    You are correct, it is a bitter harvest. Every time we see an incident like this one, or the killing of Kelly Thomas, for instance, I and a friend of mine (whose mentally ill son died on the streets) say, There goes another mentally ill person, enjoying his civil rights.

    This will never change until we defund the advocacy groups who suck up the government grants and who would be out of a job if we ever solved this problem.

    Patricia (be0117)

  133. You are correct, it is a bitter harvest. Every time we see an incident like this one, or the killing of Kelly Thomas, for instance, I and a friend of mine (whose mentally ill son died on the streets) say, There goes another mentally ill person, enjoying his civil rights.

    The Constitution does not enumerate mental illness as a civil right, therefore, mental illness is not a civil right.

    We need to make them register and wear armbands and restrict where they can live. (Again, the Constitution has no provisions against such laws.)

    Michael Ejercito (becea5)

  134. we need to make as hard for a psycho to be out on the streets as it is for an honest, responsible citizen to purchase a firearm.

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  135. What about Chris’ right to live? When will this insanity stop?

    anyone wanna bet that household is full of abortion supporters?

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  136. we need to make as hard for a psycho to be out on the streets as it is for an honest, responsible citizen to purchase a firearm.

    Can anyone explain to me why we should allow psychos to breathe?

    Michael Ejercito (becea5)

  137. Rodger was a liberal, who both envied and hated those more successful than he. He lashed out like they usually do, only his was with firearms, a BMW and a knife, not hate-filled invective and Alinsky-inspired tactics.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  138. genetic diversity?

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  139. Alpha dog Dana @116, we don’t just have a society fixated on beauty, but unrealistic expectations in general.

    Mike Rowe is an actor and comedian best known as the host of The Discovery Channel’s hit show, Dirty Jobs. Needless to say, he gets a ton of fan mail from people who wish to take the road less traveled in life…and one fan asked him how he might be able to find his “dream job.” Mike’s reply? Epic.

    …I had drinks last night with a woman I know. Let’s call her Claire. Claire just turned 42. She’s cute, smart, and successful. She’s frustrated though, because she can’t find a man. I listened all evening about how difficult her search has been. About how all the “good ones” were taken. About how her other friends had found their soul-mates, and how it wasn’t fair that she had not.

    …Here’s the thing, Parker. Claire doesn’t really want a man. She wants the “right” man. She wants a soul-mate. Specifically, a soul-mate from her zip code. She assembled this guy in her mind years ago, and now, dammit, she’s tired of waiting!!

    I didn’t tell her this, because Claire has the capacity for sudden violence. But it’s true. She complains about being alone, even though her rules have more or less guaranteed she’ll stay that way. She has built a wall between herself and her goal. A wall made of conditions and expectations…

    Very prescient of Mr. Rowe to keep certain things to himself. Because we are generating millions of horrible and disturbed persons, as Pat put it.

    We have one as Preezy, if you haven’t noticed.

    Arrogant, entitled, bitter, and angry. Unwilling to put in the work because, as you noted Dana, work is beneath them.

    That’s what the Occupy! movement was full of. They went to some overpriced school, got a degree in cinema or medieval French lit or queer frisbee studies or some other BS, now they resent the world because the capitalist system isn’t throwing money and beemers and trophy wives at them. Elliot Rodgers, who are too good for retail.

    Mike Rowe’s advice is brilliant. Learn to weld, head to North Dakota, write your own ticket in the oil industry. I’ve given that advice, or similar, as well. Spend a few years in the Navy or Air Force, learn to fix planes, get your FAA quals, write your own ticket. Or if you’re not scared of spiders become a plumber and work in a filthy crawl space. That’s literally starting at the bottom. But you’ll be making in the high five figures, and just because you start at the bottom doesn’t mean you’ll stay there.

    I wasn’t just taking a gratuitous slap at President Mean Girl earlier (not that I wouldn’t whenever the chance is available). He’s an elitist. And as an elitist he thinks everyone should go to college.

    No, no no. This is absolutely stupid. But it is precisely what we’d expect from this preening fool.

    In his biography of Obama, “The Bridge,” David Remnick, editor of The New Yorker, quotes White House senior adviser and longtime Obama friend Valerie Jarrett: “I think Barack knew that he had God-given talents that were extraordinary. He knows exactly how smart he is. … He knows how perceptive he is. He knows what a good reader of people he is. And he knows that he has the ability — the extraordinary, uncanny ability — to take a thousand different perspectives, digest them and make sense out of them, and I think that he has never really been challenged intellectually. … So what I sensed in him was not just a restless spirit but somebody with such extraordinary talents that had to be really taxed in order for him to be happy. … He’s been bored to death his whole life. He’s just too talented to do what ordinary people do.

    Another Elliot Rodger.

    Do we really need more overeducated idiots who think they are too good for what the world has to offer them.

    Steve57 (4e729f)

  140. …and I think that he has never really been challenged intellectually.

    This is so very revealing. And in a negative way. In fact it’s damning.

    His “God given talents” aren’t incredible. He’s a demonstrated, proven incompetent. He has by his own admission no clue as to what’s going on in his own administration. He’s said numerous times that he can’t even help his own daughters with their homework because math is beyond him.

    Yet he’s never been intellectually challenged? There’s a reason for this. It’s called laziness. He’s never been challenged because he’s deliberately avoided things that are difficult.

    Like trigonometry or calculus.

    Or, based upon the fact and the manner of his embrace of the global warming idiocy, any science class whatsoever.

    Too hard.

    Well, if you avoid what’s too hard, of course you’ll never have been intellectually challenged.

    This also explains why President Intercontinental Railroad has been along with his sidekick Sheriff Slow Joe Biden a veritable font unintended comedy as they vomit out their stupid remarks.

    I think one thing to keep in mind is why Obama chose Biden in the first place. For his “gravitas;” particularly his vaunted foreign policy chops.

    Seriously.

    If this guy had to frame a house or even change a spark plug or his oil, he’d have been intellectually challenged. So would have all the Occupy! dweebs.

    Steve57 (4e729f)

  141. Obama preens and preaches about “responsibility” as if it has been taken.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  142. Hey Steve57 go easy on Val. I’m pretty sure that’s just her politics/career enhancement version of “ooh, this is the best sex I’ve ever had.” No, their relationship is not sexual and no he’s not all that. But how do you think she got and kept the WH job and her secret service detail if not for crap like this?

    elissa (d3e439)

  143. Was Elliot Rogers insane? If we judge him after the fact, yes, sure, he’s certifiable, who but crazy man would do such a thing?

    But, before his bloody rampage, before the videos and the manifesto surfaced, was there any clear indication Rogers was so mentally defective that others might have had reason to fear for their lives?

    Consider the example of James Holmes, the Aurora, Colorado, theater shooter who was identified by his psychiatrist as potentially dangerous to others weeks before he walked into that darkened movie theater at midnight dressed from head-to-toe in protective armor including a ballistic helmet and wearing a gas mask. Holmes had prepared well, he was armed with an AR-15, a 12 gauge shotgun, and at least one of the two .40 caliber handguns recovered at the scene. Holmes slaughtered 12 and injured 58. (Incidentally, Holmes graduated from the University of California, Riverside campus)

    Or the example of Adam Lanza, the Sandy Hook Elementary school shooter. Like Rogers and Holmes, Lanza also suffered from mental deficiencies. After destroying his computer’s hard drive and before leaving on his rampage, Lanza murdered his mother, took her guns, a Bushmaster semi-automatic rifle, two hand guns – a 10mm Glock and a 9mm Sig Sauer (he left the 12 gauge in the car) and his brother’s ID and headed for the gun free school zone. His father later said he wished his son had never been born, of course his mother wasn’t around to ask why she was nutty enough to keep so many guns in the home she shared with an obviously unbalanced son.

    So, the question is what can be done to protect the public from potentially murderous mad men, and their parents, that doesn’t violate the rights of the merely unbalanced but harmless nuts?

    ropelight (79161d)

  144. that has been the pattern going back to Columbine, if not Jonesboro,

    narciso (3fec35)

  145. “He’s an elitist. And as an elitist he thinks everyone should go to college.”

    Steve57 – At the same time, though, he and his cadre of socialist intellectual thought leaders denounce the college environment as a hotbed of racism, white privilege and sexual assault, but hey, everybody should be able to afford to go.

    How many side of his mouth can he talk out of? I’m still counting!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  146. The light at the end of his rope asked:

    So, the question is what can be done to protect the public from potentially murderous mad men, and their parents, that doesn’t violate the rights of the merely unbalanced but harmless nuts?

    Nothing, really. Some people had chances, and even took some of the chances, to intervene in Mr Rodger’s case, but those interventions proved unsuccessful. Had the police gone into his room, and found his “manifesto,” they might have had enough to take him in, but there was neither probable cause when they were talking to him, nor a warrant allowing them to search the house. Mr Rodger was a mostly-sane-appearing citizen, with a clean criminal record. We could not write a law which would have stopped Mr Rodger, without violating the rights of sane, law-abiding citizens.

    The very lucky-in-love Dana (af9ec3)

  147. Sammy,

    What they did is they confronted him, which I think was a mistake, and he started to pull put his gun, and they fired and they killed him but they also wounded maybe none other people, becaue they fired so many bullets because the guns they have now fire too many bullets too fast.

    WTF?

    Gazzer (554004)

  148. 146. Two policemen were told someone had just killed someone. He was, however, walking quietly.

    If what they were told as correct, the man they stopped would likely try to fire. The police were somewhat careful. They were prepared. But the result was

    1) He wanted to fire the gun immediately. This has nor been the case while the two workers who witnesses the murder were quietly following him,

    2) They prevented him from firing the gun.

    3) They killed him.

    4) They wounded a bunch of innocent bystanders.

    It would have been better to have a better plan for what to do in such a case. This was not thinking.

    While there is a possibility he might have other targets in mind, still there might be a safer place to question him.

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  149. 130. Comment by Michael Ejercito (becea5) — 5/26/2014 @ 9:28 am

    Will the President have to sign this form for every firearm in the Secret Service armory?

    That would be signd by someone at lower rank.

    This kind of thing, with a few ancillary provisions added, could go a long way to stop straw buyers, or get them in trouble.

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  150. because they fired so many bullets because the guns they have now fire too many bullets too fast.
    This is total BS. Those numbskulls even have a special 15lb trigger designed to make it hard to fire because of Nanny Bloomberg. This is typical untrained popo stupidity in its simplest form.

    Gazzer (554004)

  151. http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/25/justice/california-shooting-revelations/index.html

    Read the above link; now, tell me if this little turd was “fixable”

    Angelo (0cb7bb)

  152. Eliott Rodgers, before he developed this big revenge plan on humanity (for the benefit of other mutants like himself? – because he wanted everyone to know) had attacked one woman in a bar.

    That was in July, 2013.

    He had tried to push her over a ledge.

    He got beat up by several men.

    A neighbor in the building spent hours trying to calm him down, as he went on saying: “I’m going to kill them. I’m going to kill them. I’m going to kill myself.”

    He sounds almost like Congressman Michael Grimm in 1999, back when he was only an FBI agent. Except maybe for the suicide threats.

    Like Michael Grimm, Eliot Rodgers called the police, complaining he had been beaten up (unlike Michael Grimm he had actually been assaulted) but the police determined that he had actually likely been the aggressor.

    No charges were pressed against anyone.

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  153. “because they fired so many bullets because the guns they have now fire too many bullets too fast.”

    Comment by Gazzer (554004) — 5/26/2014 @ 11:52 am

    This is total BS. Those numbskulls even have a special 15lb trigger designed to make it hard to fire because of Nanny Bloomberg. This is typical untrained popo stupidity in its simplest form.

    Well, they still fired too many bullets. What a special trigger would do is make it hard for the gun to go off accidently or carelessly. But I don’t suppose they had arthritis in the fingers or muscular dystrophy or weak muscles.

    And they were trained – they belonged to a special anti-terrorism unit.

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  154. And they were trained –

    They quite obviously were not. Your denseness on this is staggering. I will go back to skimming over your posts. Life is too short.

    Gazzer (554004)

  155. the 15# triggers make it nearly impossible to fire the pistols accurately, which is one of the reasons all the bystanders got shot.

    the NYPD has no business allowing it’s overarmed, under-trained goons out on the streets with anything more dangerous than a cup of coffee & a danish.

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  156. Thank you red, a voice of sanity at last.

    Gazzer (554004)

  157. that should keep Sam the Sham busy for a while, trying to cheery pick quotes to back up his nonsense.

    8-)

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  158. 150. I see. By July 2013, he had already started thinking about this plan. What was stopping him was that he never thought he could survive it.

    There was considerable deterrence in play here. That worked, however, only to a point.

    According to him, there were a couple of close calls. Halloween, 2012, and April 24 this year.

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  159. Comment by Mike K (cd7278) — 5/26/2014 @ 7:21 am

    He couldn’t even get into a UC school. I understand the parents are even blaming the NRA. Losers all.

    He was also maybe failing in class, and going to have to drop out.

    One thing that precipitates things like this (when it includes suicide) is when a person’s life, as he knows it, is coming to an end.

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  160. There are circumstances in a welfare check where the police can enter. But they took ER at his word (and not his parents’ word) and did not do it.

    Patricia (be0117)

  161. It seems like Eliott Rodgers was born 100 years, or at least 50 years too late, when he could have at least founded a movement. He writes:

    In fully realizing these truths about the world, I have created the ultimate and perfect ideology of how a fair and pure world would work. In an ideal world, sexuality would not exist. It must be outlawed. In a world without sex, humanity will be pure and civlized. Men will grow up healthily, without having to worry about such a barbaric act. All men will grow up fair and equal, because no man will be able to experience the pleasures of sex while others are denied it. The human race will evolve to an entirely new level of civilization, completely devoid of all the impurity and degeneracy that exists today.

    [So far, he mostly sounds somewhat like a Buddhist monk. Now he goes further]

    In order to completely abolish sex, women themselves would have to be abolished. All women must be quarantined like the plague they are, so they can be used in a manner that actually benefits a civilized society. In order to carry this out, there must exist a new and powerful type of government, under the control of one divine (!?) ruler, such as myself. The ruler that establishes this new order would have complete control over every aspect of society, in order to direct it towards a good and pure place. At the disposal of this government, there needs to be a highly trained army of fanatically loyal troops, in order to enforce such revolutionary laws.

    The first strike against women will be to quarantine all of them in concentration camps. at these camps, he vast majority of the female population will be deliberately starved to death. That would be an efficient and fitting way to kill them off. I would take great pleasure in condemning every single woman on earth to starve to death. I would have an enormous tower built just for myself, where I can oversee the entire concentration camp and gleefully watch them all die….A few women would be spared, for the purposes of reproduction. These women would be kept and bred in secret labs. There, they wll be artificially inseminated with sperm samples in order to prduce offspring. Their depraved nature will slowly be bred out of them in time.

    Future generations of men wold be oblivious to these remaining women’s existence, and that is for the best. If a man grows up without knowing of the exustence of women, there will be no desire for sex. Sexuality will completely cease to exist. There will be no longer any imprint of such concepts in the human psyche. It is the nly way to purify the world….

    …It is such a shameful pity that my ideal world cannot be created. I realized long ago that there is no way I could possibly rise to such a level of power in my lifetime, with the way the world is now….

    But if he lived 100 years ago….

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  162. Unless he’s a very unusual individual, the deputy/deputies who visited Elliot at his parents’ request and who “missed” or misread the situation is going to have a hard time living with this, Patricia. The guilt will be overwhelming.

    elissa (d3e439)

  163. He was nuts Sammy. At any time in any era in any century he would have been nuts.

    elissa (d3e439)

  164. More from ER:

    I am not part of the human race. Humanity has rejected me. The females of the human species have never wanted to mate with me, so how could I possibly consider myself part of humanity?…Humanity is a disgusting, depraved, and evil species. It is my purpose to punish them all….

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  165. Sure seems like many of the views on women expressed by Elliot Rogers correlate rather directly with the positions of the Taliban in particular and with fundamentalist Islam in general. Just sayin’

    ropelight (79161d)

  166. 165. Comment by elissa (d3e439) — 5/26/2014 @ 1:27 pm

    He was nuts Sammy. At any time in any era in any century he would have been nuts.

    But he could have been more successful 100 years ago.

    Especially in the aftermath of World War I.

    If he’d been born in 1891, not 1991.

    Actually, maybe even in such a situation, with all sorts of ideologies floating around, he probably would not have been able to attract many followers, and if he did, somebody else who also wanted to be a dictator would have killed him.

    He’d have joined some group, maybe with a different ideology, and made a play for power in the group, and been killed at some point.

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  167. Do you think so, Ropelight? My take was that he was quite ignorant about biology, reproduction, and human instincts–particularly men.

    elissa (d3e439)

  168. is there any scumbag Sam the Sham can’t make excuses for?

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  169. I think he is off his meds today…

    Gazzer (554004)

  170. No. Concentration camps to hold and starve all women except a few breeder women to be artificially inseminated would not have been a popular idea. Ever. You’ve just got too many “maybes” going there, Sammy. Please, I beg you. Drop this line of conjecture.

    Elliot was insane.

    elissa (d3e439)

  171. 167. Comment by ropelight (79161d) — 5/26/2014 @ 1:40 pm

    Sure seems like many of the views on women expressed by Elliot Rogers correlate rather directly with the positions of the Taliban in particular and with fundamentalist Islam in general. Just sayin’

    It’s not even that. (although in some other place he talks about not letting women choose whom they would mate with)

    It’s more like Aldous Huxley, or Aldous Huxley’s nightmare.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_new_world

    Natural reproduction has been done away with and children are created, “decanted”, and raised in “hatcheries and conditioning centres”. From birth, people are genetically designed to fit into one of five castes, which are further split into “Plus” and “Minus” members and designed to fulfill predetermined positions within the social and economic strata of the World State. Fetuses chosen to become members of the highest castes, “Alpha” and “Beta”, are allowed to develop naturally and are given stimulants while maturing to term in “decanting bottles.” Those fetuses chosen to become members of the lower castes of “Gamma”, “Delta” or “Epsilon” are subjected to in situ chemical interference to cause arrested development in intelligence and physical growth. Each Alpha or Beta is the product of one unique fertilised egg developing into one unique fetus.

    The only thing is, “Brave New World” has both men and women, and sex, but not for reproduction.

    Elliot Rodgers wanted a world just of men, except for a few women retained for reproduction.

    I guess he figured while they can have artificial wombs, they can’t get eggs any other way, so he needs a few women. But that fact would be let secret from the vast majority of men.

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  172. Gazzer I don’t know whats going on with Sammy either, but it’s advanced rather rapidly from merely being somewhat annoying to being disturbing.

    elissa (d3e439)

  173. Agreed.

    Gazzer (554004)

  174. I think ER’s world also, there would have to be a population crash. He talks about artificial insemination, but he’s not mentioning hatcheries, so each woman could only have one child every nine or ten months at most.

    Come to think of it, it’s maybe not 100 years ago, but 20 years from now in some countries, that he might have gotten some followers, as you might then in some countries have an actual shortage of women, so therefore, some men to attract as followers.

    Except he didn’t speak the language.

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  175. 170. Comment by redc1c4 (abd49e) — 5/26/2014 @ 1:46 pm

    is there any scumbag Sam the Sham can’t make excuses for?

    I’m just saying he’s not really that abnormal. Just evil, and without a conscience. It’s wrong, but not motiveless.

    His ideology is not more crazy than a couple of Twentieth century dictators. There are always some new twists.

    And is he crazier than the Roman Emperors Caligula, Nero, or Domitian? Less crazy.

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  176. Whoa, slow down there Sammy. Bat shit crazy is bat shit crazy. It is what it is. There is no logic to it. I agree with Elissa, this line is becoming disturbing

    Angelo (0cb7bb)

  177. Sammy – Are you suggesting you would have or would follow ER?

    What real life movement is his philosophy similar to?

    What is your point?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  178. i liked the second Hunger Games movie more better than the first one

    these movies are tough cause the casting was so bad to start with

    thor’s brother must’ve had something put in his contract to where they weren’t allowed to give him character-appropriate hair

    he looks less like a coal miner than I do and I’m super pretty

    and the other guy looks like a young blond Nathan Lane I keep expecting a musical number

    for the last movie they’re gonna split it up like how they did for twilight

    this is probably a very good call I think

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  179. Saaamyyyy!!!!

    nk (dbc370)

  180. he’s certainly dialed to Eleven, today,

    Julianne Moore, is in this installment, she plays
    a dark counterpoint to Katniss, the rebel leader Alma Coin,

    narciso (3fec35)

  181. I’m just saying he’s not really that abnormal. Just evil, and without a conscience. It’s wrong, but not motiveless.

    Not motiveless? Yeah, he had a goal, right? He was industrious and versatile because he killed equally well with a knife and gun!

    Hadoop (f7d5ba)

  182. In the manifesto, ER gives his version of the fight in July. Is it the truth? He indicates he concealed facts from the police. He admits here he tried to push girls off the ledge, saying it was one of the most foolish and rash things he ever did, and he almost risked everything with that but he was druunk and angry, and he says he got pushed off instead by some boys and broke his ankle and couldn’t walk, but the beating happened when he came back, or tried to – he went to he wrong place, next door – to get his sunglasses, as a result of which he got beat up and had his golden necklace stolen too. He tries to use what happened later as part of his case against girls.

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  183. Sure seems like many of the views on women expressed by Elliot Rogers correlate rather directly with the positions of the Taliban in particular and with fundamentalist Islam in general. Just sayin’

    Indeed. I am surprised he did not join Al Qaeda.

    Michael Ejercito (becea5)

  184. TMI, Sammy.

    nk (dbc370)

  185. Comment by Hadoop (f7d5ba) — 5/26/2014 @ 2:36 pm

    Not motiveless? Yeah, he had a goal, right? He was industrious and versatile because he killed equally well with a knife and gun!

    His motive was to raise his spirits. Make himself feel better. Why it would make him feel better is explained in his manifesto. It’s the typical human emotions of envy and revenge. Envy and revenge against the entire human race, which he didn’t consider himself a part of. But mostly pure revenge, without too much logic.

    What he really wanted to do was increase the level of dopamine in his brain, but he didn’t understand that that’s what it was. He wanted a feeling of success.

    He also was quite meticulous. He knew, after his close call, that a video would be a telling sign, so he put up the video near the end, and timed things so well, so that it circulated, but nobody would find out soon enough to stop him.

    He calculated that very, very precisely. Some other parts of his plan didn’t work out so well for him.

    He wanted to kill his roommates so could lure other people to their deaths. He killed his roommates, but at most he killed one other person there, and probably not a very important person to him.

    He wanted to go into the sorority and kill girls in there. But when he knocked on the door nobody answered and he couldn’t get in. He shot and killed people outside.

    Part 3 was shooting from the car and using the car to kill people, but while he injured people in that phase, he didn’t kill anyone, except right at the start, at the because he was afraid to stop the car.

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  186. The very worst thing he imagined was to get caught before he did anything, and be in jail without having killed anyone, and the next worst thing was to continue life as it was.

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  187. the shooter, resembles too many of his predecessors, with the politics of the one in Tucson, with chips on his shoulder, like the Washington Navy Yard one, some aspects of the former LAPD officer that went on a rampage,

    narciso (3fec35)

  188. This all could possibly have been avoided if his father had been working on X-Men instead of the Hunger Games. He would have lost his virginity quick enough there, without needing to like girls.

    nk (dbc370)

  189. Or if had googled “Chinese massage ladies” who’d help him resolve any Oedipal issues too.

    nk (dbc370)

  190. TMI?

    TMI = The fourth episode of the 15th season of the American animated television series South Park

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T.M.I.

    Also Transmarginal inhibition

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmarginal_inhibition

    Too much information?

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  191. 190. No he didn’t want to pay for sex.

    He wanted, like other men, to get it for free, and he wanted love. Otherwise he envied them and he couldn’t even stand to look at the sunset because boys and girls were enjoying the sunset together.

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  192. I’m thinking that maybe there actually was probable cause in some of the things he had posted back in April..

    He had budgeting $5,000 for his killing spree, most of which was money he got from his family.

    The first step maybe, in a discreet investigation – something like this has to be discreet – could have been looking at his bank accounts and credit cards.

    Had he bought a lot of guns, explosives, etc?

    If a search warrant was executed, it should have been done as a black bag job – no trace they were there.

    Maybe an undercover police officer could have become very friendly with him, so that maybe he would confide.

    That’s how this could have bene investigated.

    He was painting himself into a corner. He dropped out (like the Aurora Colorado shooter) but was still on campus.

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  193. I’ve got this burning, burning
    Yearning feelin’ inside me
    Ooh, deep inside me
    And it hurts so bad

    The silicon chip inside her head
    Gets switched to overload
    And nobody’ gonna go to school today
    She’s going to make them stay at home

    He went to dinner in his Sunday best
    Excitable boy they all said
    And he rubbed the pot roast all over his chest
    He’s just an excitable boy

    I saw her standin’ on her front lawn just twirlin’ her baton
    Me and her went for a ride sir and ten innocent people died
    From the town of Lincoln Nebraska with a sawed-off .410 on my lap
    Through to the badlands of Wyoming I killed everything in my path

    He’s not really worth analyzing, Sammy. Just one of nature’s mistakes.

    nk (dbc370)

  194. Don’t think SF is listening to anyone today. Doing his best Rainman impression.

    Gazzer (554004)

  195. He’s an excellent driveler.

    Gazzer (554004)

  196. Mr Finkelman wrote:

    By July 2013, he had already started thinking about this plan. What was stopping him was that he never thought he could survive it.

    In the end, he decided that he didn’t want to survive it. If he had survived, he’d spend the rest of his miserable life in jail, where his virginity problem would be taken care of, though not in the manner he would have preferred. Maybe he’d have wound up like Nidal Hassan, dead from the waist down.

    But we’re all attempting to apply some sort of logic to a wholly irrational act plotted by a man male who was clearly not sane. Oh, he wasn’t drooling on himself crazy, and was able to function well enough to live alone and keep his butt wiped, but he was still nuts.

    The psychologist Dana (af9ec3)

  197. He was a psychopath, he wasn’t crazy, Rogerd felt his own pain acutely, while at the same time he felt less compassion of the suffering he inflicted on others as most of us feel for the turkey on Thanksgiving.

    ropelight (79161d)

  198. He just was not a people person.

    nk (dbc370)

  199. Mr Finkelman wrote:

    But he could have been more successful 100 years ago.

    Especially in the aftermath of World War I.

    If he’d been born in 1891, not 1991.

    No, not then, and not ever, because he didn’t have the strength, the courage or the confidence to dominate other men, to get anyone to listen to him.

    A great part of his problem was that he was simply weak, weak physically and weak willed. He was still a virgin, still had never been kissed, because he was wholly lacking in enough confidence to ask a girl out. He was a weakling, mentally, physically and emotionally, someone who thought that he deserved greatness when greatness was not within him.

    The psychologist Dana (af9ec3)

  200. Mr Finkelman wrote:

    Had he bought a lot of guns, explosives, etc?

    If a search warrant was executed, it should have been done as a black bag job – no trace they were there.

    Maybe an undercover police officer could have become very friendly with him, so that maybe he would confide.

    That’s how this could have bene investigated.

    Really? That’s a lot of time and money invested in a case which didn’t seem to be anything, right up until the moment it was. Most police departments don’t have the personnel or the resources to devote to that kind of investigation over a guy who was a very small fry.

    The budget-conscious Dana (af9ec3)

  201. I wish the press would stop using his name. I think we should give these crazies names like we do with hurricanes. This one could be “Mini-loser” for example.

    Gazzer (554004)

  202. Mr Ejercito wrote:

    Indeed. I am surprised he did not join Al Qaeda.

    Just think: if he had, he could be in paradise, right now, losing his virginity with his 72 virgins.

    The non-Muslim Dana (af9ec3)

  203. 178. Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/26/2014 @ 2:24 pm

    Sammy – Are you suggesting you would have or would follow ER?

    Absolutely not.

    What real life movement is his philosophy similar to?

    His ideal world seems closest to “Brave New World”, which isn’t real life.

    Or otherwise Buddhist monks.

    Or maybe the Essenes come close.

    There are elements of some kind of maybe Ayn Randian, distant, “scientific” inhuman, thinking in him.

    Except that ER veered between opposite opinions.

    The whole world hung or his opinion of the whole world, hung on his one case. On what happened to him.

    If he could have the same thing other men did, by which he meant the love of a woman and whatever else people seemed to enjoy, then he’d take that, and drop all these plans about revenge.

    If not, his philosophy was that women were bad and to be dispensed with.

    So either that wasn’t his philosophy, or he decided he wouldn’t care if women were bad, or mentally ill, or whatever he said, because he would be all right. He was extremely selfish.

    But he said women were. His mother was, because his father wasn’t rich. A less selfish woman would have married a richer man.

    What is your point?

    I think some of the historical movements in the past are just as crazy or not crazy as he was. I think people can sometimes adopt the craziest ideas.

    And saying someone is crazy is a way of not thinking.

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  204. You’re putting the cart before the oranges again, Sammy. Just because the rantings of a creepazoid resemble those of Huxley, Rand, the Essenes, and Buddha, only goes to show that they were f***ed up too.

    nk (dbc370)

  205. Here is another version of what ER said about women: (not the concentration camp one, with most of them killed except a few left for breeding by artificial insemination)

    The ultimate evil behind sexuality is the human female. They are the main instigators of sex. They control which men get it and which men don’t. Women are flawed creatures, and my mistreatment at their hands has made me realize this sad truth. There is something very twisted and wrong with the way their brains are wired. They think like beasts, and in truth, they are beasts. Women are incapable of having morals or thinking rationally. They are completely controlled by their depraved emotions [unlike himself, of course] and vile sexual impulses. Because of this, the men who do get to experience the pleasures of sex and the privilege of breeding are the men who women are sexually attracted to…the stupid, degenerate, obnoxious men. I have observed this all my life. The most beautiful of women choose to mate with the most brutal of men, instead of magnificent gentlemen like myself.

    Women should not have the right to choose who to mate and breed with. That decision should be made for them by rational men of intelligence. If women continue to have rights, they will only hinder the advancement of the human race by breeding with degenerate men and creating stupid, degenerate offspring. This will cause humanity to become even more depraved with each generation. Women have more power in human society than they deserve, all because of sex. There is no creature more evil and depraved than the human female.

    Women are like a plague. They don’t deserve to have any rights. Their wickedness must be contained in order prevent future generations from
    falling to degeneracy. Women are vicious, evil, barbaric animals, and they need to be treated as such.

    Then he goes on to talk about the concentration camps.

    I guess this first proposal is only because it is more practical than the one for his ideal world.

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  206. And are you sure you meant Rand and not Nietzsche? Their nonsense was similar, but Rand got laid plenty. Nietzsche was a rabid misogynist whose only sexual experience was with wounded soldiers when he served as an orderly in the Franco-Prusssian War (?) and contracted syphilis.

    nk (dbc370)

  207. Huxley actually intended that as satire on H.G. wells optimisn, so that’s not Huxley himself, or anybody.

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  208. Sigh. Could I get you not to quote this guy anymore, though? Because it cannot be unread, and I’ll just have to stop reading your comments.

    nk (dbc370)

  209. I think he was a one off psycho, and spending one iota more time analyzing or trying to understand a one off psycho is a fool’s errand. Nothing we learn about this individual or suppose about this individual or assume about this individual changes anything. It doesn’t bring the dead back to life and it does not prevent another crime “just like this” from happening– because there will never be another one “just like this.” IMO He does not deserve the attention that is being paid to him or the curiosity surrounding him, and we should deny him that.

    Two related areas that I wish we were looking at are:
    1)how LE should/could handle things better or more thoroughly when parents or shrinks in effect turn in an adolescent or young adult child who they know to be mentally unstable and a danger and,
    2) what can we as as society better do to isolate and/or treat severely mentally ill or psychopathic people who simply should not be out in the public and have access to weapons, or cars, etc.

    elissa (550033)

  210. Hey, nk, I really enjoy your posts. I kind of skip over Teh Sammeh’s, which I suspect are a form of self-medication for him than informational toward others.

    He’s not rude or anything, but arguing with him is frustrating, and then you might not post as much. And as I say, I appreciate your posts very much.

    Teh Sammeh is just Teh Sammeh. He is quite certain that his opinion constitutes natural law, but he isn’t unpleasant. Just a bit odd. He ought to have his own blog, and could write to his heart’s content at length. My guess is that such a blog would be super organized and exhaustive in content.

    There are a lot of people who used to post a lot whom I miss.

    Simon Jester (fecb62)

  211. ER on the one hand seems to propose, on the one hand, that women ought to be forced to have sex with the right kind of men, and not the with the men of their choice, since they will choose the worst men, in which category he does not fit;

    And on the other hand nobody at all should have sex, and the thought, even the knowledge of the existence of women should be banished from the world.

    You could find ideologies somewhat close to one or the other of these, but not both.

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  212. I’m not sure exactly what Ayn Rand said. It’s the amoral scienific detachment I was talking about.

    Nietzsche also claimed women don’t reason. ER limits this “unreason” to the choice of whom they love.

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  213. Elissa, you are right on the money, there. This sad sack of a human being was mentally broken, and he would have found some way to hurt others.

    It’s disgusting how this case is being used to promote anti-gun legislation, or to confirm an anti-woman bias. Heck, the media kept misreporting, and I do note that they leave out the three males he stabbed together in their version of Teh Narrative. No crisis should go to waste, after all. Wasn’t that the saying?

    The guy in Santa Barbara was. Just. Plain. Nuts. I don’t even care if he was an Aspie or not. That’s independent.

    But using a tragedy like this to advance a political goal is a great definition of sociopathy, I think.

    Simon Jester (fecb62)

  214. And Teh Narrative uber alles, folks. Over on Twitter, the #YesAllWomen details awful things that *all* women are said to experience. But I keep noticing some very extreme sounding statistics, but as the bearer of an XY chromosome set, I don’t want to be accused of “mansplaining” anything.

    What I would note is how with all the #YesAllWomen interest, those same people aren’t very interested in this particular story:

    http://nypost.com/2014/05/21/man-charged-with-killing-wife-after-she-made-him-the-wrong-dinner/

    Heck, read the quote from this awful man’s defense attorney (and note her gender). I guess this doesn’t count as #WarOnWomen. Sounds like being Muslim trumps spousal murder in this case.

    That’s because the truth isn’t as important as Teh Narrative. So it isn’t just this Santa Barbara tragedy. It’s all through our sick, sick society at present.

    Simon Jester (fecb62)

  215. Comment by nk (dbc370) — 5/26/2014 @ 4:23 pm

    Could I get you not to quote this guy anymore, though? Because it cannot be unread, and I’ll just have to stop reading your comments.

    I think I did enough, and I have already quoted the worst parts of it.

    There may be some interesting things about how he escaped detection or what he planned to do. I’m finished with his philosophy. It’s too awful and extreme to take seriously. It’ll go away.

    It is is basically of interest to show his evilness or how it affected his planning and thinking.

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  216. Here’s something else to keep in mind, Sammy. Everybody here obviously has internet access. We have news sites and political sites that we frequent, and we know how to use search engines to gather additional info and to verify both facts and allegations. Some of us still even read a newspaper in hard copy every day. So you really don’t need to do all the lengthy quoting and cutting and pasting within your comments. You can always provide a brief explanation and a link if you think there’s something new or important to be communicated or to support a thread. That’s what narciso does and people then can pick and choose what they want to click on if it interests them.

    elissa (550033)

  217. 210. Comment by elissa (550033) — 5/26/2014 @ 4:31 pm

    1)how LE should/could handle things better or more thoroughly when parents or shrinks in effect turn in an adolescent or young adult child who they know to be mentally unstable and a danger and,

    Don’t pay attention, and they don’t, as to whether somebody is crazy or not.

    Pay attention only as to whether somebody is actually planning to do something or not.

    And you won’t find that out by asking point blank.

    Don’t give anyone the idea that they could lose their chance if they don’t act soon.

    Don’t do anything to squeeze anyone.

    Give them the idea that they more time than they imagine. Very few people want to kill themselves. They’ll postpone it, like ER did, until his time at college was running out, and probably his access to the money or the weapons he used.

    Don’t think there’s anyway to tell except by actually finding out if the person is accumulating weapons, has written manifestos and so on like that.

    People may get suspicious for the wrong reasons, but there are some signs that indicate a higher probability.

    I wonder by the way, how many people have planned this, and then NOT gone ahead.

    I said: Get a search warrant – first for someone’s financial transactions, because, if something big is being planned, this is going to involve money. If someone is not earning money but has a lot of spending money that they won’t have in the future, that’s a troublesome sign.

    If you search someone’s belongings, do it secretly.

    Get an undercover agent to investigate.

    2) what can we as as society better do to isolate and/or treat severely mentally ill or psychopathic people who simply should not be out in the public and have access to weapons, or cars, etc.

    There are no such persons. And there are no experts for diagnosing dangerousness.

    There are just people contemplating evil deeds, and it isn’t worth your while to care about the reason, whether it is a “crazy” reason or for not so crazy reasons. Except if it is super-crazy, the person may be ineffective.

    If you start a witch hunt you’ll get more people to decide to go ahead early as this becomes known.
    Don’t make people think they might have time to decide.

    You need perhaps to change the standards for a search warrant, or look more carefully at what you know.

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  218. Guy killed his wife over the wrong dinner? Please don’t think that I approve, but sometimes a man can only take so much:

    MONDAY: It’s so much fun to cook for Ron. Today I made angel food cake. The recipe said beat 12 eggs separately. Fortunately, the neighbors were kind enough to loan me some extra bowls.
    TUESDAY: Ron wanted fruit salad for dinner. The recipe said serve without dressing so, I didn’t dress. What a surprise when Ron brought his boss home for dinner.
    WEDNESDAY: A great day for rice. The recipe said wash thoroughly before steaming the rice. It seemed sort of silly, but I took a shower. I can’t say it improved the rice any.
    THURSDAY: Today, Ron asked for salad again. I tried a new recipe. It said prepare ingredients, then toss on a bed of lettuce one hour before serving. Which is what led up to Ron asking me why I was rolling around in the garden.
    FRIDAY: I found an easy recipe for cookies. It said put all ingredients in a bowl and beat it. There must have been something wrong with this recipe. When I got back, everything was exactly the same as when I left.
    SATURDAY: Ron did the grocery shopping today and brought home a chicken. He asked me to dress it for Sunday (Oh boy). For some strange reason, Ron keeps counting to ten.
    SUNDAY: Ron’s parents came to dinner. I wanted to serve roast, but all I could find was hamburger. Suddenly, I had a flash of genius. I put the hamburger in the oven and set the controls for roast. Much to my disappointment, it still came out hamburger.
    GOOD NIGHT DEAR DIARY: This has been such an exciting week. I can hardly wait for tomorrow to come so I can try out a new recipe on Ron. If only we could get a larger oven, I would love to surprise him with Chocolate Moose.

    http://www.jokebuddha.com/Dinner#ixzz32rxi0iXZ

    nk (dbc370)

  219. You slay me, nk. But it is interesting, isn’t it, to see the #War OnWomen types strangely silent on this particular case.

    Simon Jester (17fdba)

  220. In reality the cops do very little in the way of crime prevention. They excel at showing up and taking a report after the event, with a minor in shooting pet dogs for no apparent reason. Them they can actually hit, apparently.

    Gazzer (554004)

  221. he wanted goat– she made him lentils–he beat her to a bloody pulpy death and then had their son help him clean up the mess.

    the diary was cute, tho, nk

    elissa (550033)

  222. His being Pakistani Muslim where wife beating is “culturally accepted” threw a little kink into the WOW narrative. So they just ignore it. It’s easier that way.

    elissa (550033)

  223. I was thinking of why Elliot Rodger’s parent had such a difficult, and actually impossible, time in committing their son to a mental institution (or some sort of confinement to protect both him and the public at large) in spite of how psychotic he was. Well, in this age of PC-Nidal-Hasan-ized politics, and do-your-own-thang ethos, mixed together with an absurd degree of permissiveness and tolerance, is it any wonder that this society seems more unhinged than ever before?

    For example, the extremely chaotic, Dante’s-Inferno condition of Los Angeles’s infamous Skid Row — not too far from where Patterico plys his trade everyday — with its hundreds and hundreds of rabidly mentally ill people wandering all over the place, leaving behind a huge mess (and, with huge amounts of public urination and defecation, a notorious health risk too) — and with the legal system tying the hands of law enforcement to do anything about it, is merely Case Study #1 in why the Elliot Rodgers of this country are but the tip of the rotten whipped cream.

    Makes me think of the kernels of a very bad joke: A violent homeless person, Nidal Hasan and Elliot Rodger all walked into a bar one day….

    Mark (99b8fd)

  224. They said, “Ouch!” It was an iron bar.

    Gazzer (554004)

  225. the vast majority of imbalanced american fruitbats aren’t lethal

    but then that’s probably for the best

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  226. Free psych evaluation:

    The more I think about ER’s bizarre delusions the more I sense hints of his twisted shadow lurking in the recesses of a distant and almost forgotten past. It’s disturbing to imagine he may share common elements of his sick psyche with the rest of us to an extent we’re unwilling to consider, much less acknowledge.

    According to Freud, the socialization process operates during the very early years to train the ego to resist the id’s selfish demands. ER never internalized the most basic lessons of human group dynamics. His mind remained that of an angry and demanding toddler concerned only with his own need for attention, admiration and immediate gratification supremely annoyed that others wouldn’t recognize his superiority and cater to his insatiable cravings.

    ER was stuck in an infantile stage of perception normal people grow out of in very early childhood long before they develop to the point of being allowed outside the house and at least a decade or two before acquiring the means of acting out with cars and handguns.

    (I suspect he may have had great difficulty with toilet training.)

    ropelight (79161d)

  227. Comment by elissa (550033) — 5/26/2014 @ 4:57 pm

    So you really don’t need to do all the lengthy quoting and cutting and pasting within your comments.

    I did a lot of that (from the manifesto) because I found it technically difficult, so I wanted to practice a little bit.

    Also because some people seem not to have read or been aware of some things in it.

    And it was kind of interesting. (in a macabre way, of course. Very Alfred Hitchcock.)

    And for some things you do need exact quotes, although probably not extended ones.

    And getting it isolated helped to clarify my thoughts.

    I’m still looking for where – if anywhere in there – is something about his giving an explanation that he was comfortable with dropping out of school.

    There is in it that he had signed up for some courses that semester, but stopped taking them. He had actually not registered at all in the fall of 2012, so there’s actually something more to the story. It’s filled out, really, by other people.

    He took only online courses in the spring semeter of 2013 to please his parents.

    He must have seriously contemplated this and yet backed out of this several times. He also tells – with a very straight face – how he decided he was going to win the lottery in 2012 and 2013.

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  228. The New York Post linked to Scribd, which is difficult to use – the New York Times had something a little better:

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/05/25/us/shooting-document.html

    This is scribd

    http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1173619/rodger-manifesto.pdf

    One or the other may work better for some people, but I would really like at least an html file.

    You can always provide a brief explanation and a link if you think there’s something new or important to be communicated or to support a thread. That’s what narciso does and people then can pick and choose what they want to click on if it interests them.

    narciso just throws in a link, often with not really a good enough desription. I figure the cause is a shortage of time, or because it is off topic.

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  229. The only person he didn’t want to kill was his father. Maybe not on ethical grounds, but he thought even if he decided to include him, or events worked out that way, he might hesitate.

    He used to spend time with his little (half) brother, because his brother was the only person who had a high opinion of him, but then one day his step-mother told him how he’d been signed to do TV commercials, and would be a successful actor by his age, and that he will never have any problems with girls, and that he will lose his virginity when he is young, [they talked that way?] and he decided he had to kill his brother, too, rather than face having him surpass him at everything.

    He said it would be hard (evidently his brother still admired him) but he couldn’t let him put his “legacy to shame.”

    He figured he’d have to kill his father’s wife too, but that was no problem for him. But he decided he’d have to set the date for when is father was out-of-town. This was sometime in the second half of 2013.

    Evidently this whole part of the plot seems to have been dropped, although he mentions it near the end. He seems not to have been able to schedule it in, or his father was in town.

    It was supposed to take place between the time he killed people in his apartment and the time he killed the girls at the Alpha Phi sorority house, (scheduled for 9 pm Saturday May 24) and he was also going to switch to a Mercedes at his father’s house that morning.

    He never went there and he still was using his BMW at the end.

    May 24th was the deadline because after that the spring semester at SBCC would end, and the students would go back home, which would mean less “enemies” to kill in Isla Vista. UCSB would still be in session, but he wanted to kill both UCSB and SBCC students.

    But he went to the sorority house on the night of May 23, not May 24, like what it says in his manifesto, so it could be he feared the bodies of his roommates would be discovered, and his plans started to unravel. Not enough, though.

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  230. His mother sent police to him on April 30 because she was afraid he was going to commit suicide, not homicide.

    It’s not clear from what I read so far, what threats, or intimitions of killing people, if any, were known by that time.

    Eliot Rodger was afraid his homicide plan would be suspected or discovered, but that may not have bene what other people were thinking.

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  231. The guilt will be overwhelming.

    I agree, elissa. We expect way too much of our police. We mismanage these mental health issues and tell ourselves nice fairy tales about how great it is, how free the mentally ill are, and then we dump the problem in their laps.

    Patricia (be0117)

  232. http://reason.com/archives/2014/05/28/gun-controls-false-promise

    “Why did Chris die?” Martinez asked at a news conference on Saturday night. “Chris died because of craven, irresponsible politicians and the NRA. They talk about gun rights. What about Chris’s right to live? When will this insanity stop?”

    What this whole incident proves is that psychologically and emotionally disturbed people like Elliot Rodger are not just a threat to our lives, they are a threat to our civil rights. They are a cancer on humanity.

    Cancer is not cured by transforming the cancer cells back to normal, healthy cells. Cancer is cured by destroying the cancer cells. So too, we must destroy this cancer on humanity,. The existence of mentally and emotionally disturbed people like Elliot Rodger can no longer be tolerated. The threat to our lives and civil rights is just too great to try anything else except destroy them. And the destruction must be thorough. Even one psychological or emotional deviant is one person too many.

    Michael Ejercito (becea5)

  233. Is it time to revisit the judicial decisions of the 1970′s that made it impossible to institutionalize unstable people? Now they roam the streets muttering to themselves, screaming at no one, and making parks unsafe. In NY they have pushed people into trafffic or off subway platforms. Everyone wonders why no one could do “anything.” In Calif we have the Atias incident in 2001 (unstable kid drove his car into a crowd in Santa Barbara), and this new incident.

    Harcourt Fenton Mudd (329cc1)

  234. CA legislators propose ‘gun violence restraining order’ to combat shootings.

    askeptic (8ecc78)

  235. Big Knife lobby strikes again

    they’re obscenely opportunistic, but you can’t say they’re not sharp

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  236. We have a dishonorable mention for pun-of-the-day.

    askeptic (8ecc78)

  237. That cuts both ways.

    ropelight (9bff8a)

  238. I used to be much sharper, but then I lived on the edge of town.

    askeptic (8ecc78)

  239. Uncle

    ropelight (9bff8a)

  240. On the plame thread,I had a link to Hornaday blaming the shooting on Seth Rogen, Green Hornet wasn’t that bad.

    narciso (3fec35)

  241. “In Calif we have the Atias incident in 2001 (unstable kid drove his car into a crowd in Santa Barbara), and this new incident.”

    I thought that was Lindsay Lohan more recently?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  242. 239. Comment by Harcourt Fenton Mudd (329cc1) — 5/28/2014 @ 10:39 am

    Everyone wonders why no one could do “anything.”

    We don’t have a Department of Pre-crime.

    So far, anyway.

    http://www.wired.com/2011/10/pre-crime-detection/

    I think there’s the little matter of false positives and false negatives.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)


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