Patterico's Pontifications

9/23/2013

It’s Official: Old Guard GOP Senators Will Shoot Down Cruz’s Attempt to Make a Filibuster Possible on the Issue of ObamaCare

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 6:19 pm

It’s an opportunity that careerist politicians can’t resist: the chance to look like they’re doing something about a divisive issue, while in reality they’re doing nothing . . . and incurring zero political risk in the process.

Win/win!

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell and many of his rank and file are poised to cast votes this week that will effectively rebuke Sen. Ted Cruz’s effort to filibuster a stopgap spending bill that would keep the government funded past Sept. 30.

Cruz has been calling on fellow Republicans to block the House-passed stopgap spending bill that defunds the president’s 2010 health care law because he sees the vote as a way to prevent Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., from stripping out the Obamacare funding blockade.

But a GOP-led filibuster puts many Republicans in the tough spot of opposing a bill they actually support while also likely causing a government shutdown. Any vote to filibuster is likely to come before Reid moves to strike the Obamacare defunding language.

“Sen. McConnell supports the House Republicans’ bill and will not vote to block it, since it defunds Obamacare and funds the government without increasing spending by a penny. He will also vote against any amendment that attempts to add Obamacare funding back into the House Republicans’ bill,” said Don Stewart, spokesman for the Kentucky Republican. “If and when the Majority Leader goes down that path, Washington Democrats will have to decide — without hiding behind a procedural vote — whether or not to split with their leadership and join Republicans and their constituents in opposing the re-insertion of Obamacare funding into the House-passed bill.”

You see what they’re doing there. A vote to consider the bill is really a vote for ObamaCare, because it smooths the way for Harry Reid to amend the most central provision and take out the defunding language by a majority vote. Cruz’s method, opposing the bill being considered at all, makes a filibuster possible, allowing Cruz to stand up and speechify about ObamaCare. But, because Cruz’s tactic requires him — technically but only technically — to “oppose” (try to filibuster) a bill he actually supports, it’s a tough sell for the low information voter. (Cruz is up to the task of explaining this, as you can see from last night’s post.) But, just as the fighting approach is tough to explain, the converse is true: the do-nothing vote is easy to explain. It’s easy to pretend you’re doing something, because you can say you voted for the consideration of a good bill! Why, what could be wrong with that?

Witness Lindsey Graham trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the low info voter:

Sen. Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican who is up for re-election and faces a tea party challenge, didn’t mince words about the problem with the tactics being employed by his fellow GOP senators.

“I think we’ll take up the House bill because it’s a good bill. I can’t imagine filibustering the bill that I like from the House. There will be a vote to take out the defunding of Obamacare. It will be a majority vote,” Graham said Monday on Fox News. “And I’m hoping some Democrats will side with all Republicans to keep the defunding in place, but I doubt it.”

Duh.

Make no mistake: anyone voting to consider this bill is allowing the funding of ObamaCare and knows it.

And they’ll look you right in the eye and tell you the opposite.

244 Responses to “It’s Official: Old Guard GOP Senators Will Shoot Down Cruz’s Attempt to Make a Filibuster Possible on the Issue of ObamaCare”

  1. ding maybe.

    What did you expect?

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  2. ‘You ask for a miracle,’ Theo, (quote by Gruber, when the FBI’s response manual, gives him the key to the vault.

    narciso (3fec35)

  3. If you really think about it, Cruz is pulling a Jimmy Stewart here. He probably will fail.

    But, as much as the left and right hate him, he will be re-elected.

    Reality is a bitch.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  4. Have Cruz and Lee mapped out a potential endgame to all of this ?

    Elephant Stone (cddd87)

  5. I really do not like people trying to deceive me because they think I am stupid and that they can get away with it;
    but unfortunately they get away with it enough to get elected and re-elected.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  6. The veins on the back of Harry’s hand stirred like baby rattlers disturbed in their winter hibernation at the almost impalpable caress of Lindsay’s fingertips. This boy sure has a soft touch, Harry thought, too bad he wasn’t born a woman. “Harry”, Lindsay murmured, “ya’ll know Ted’s shenanigans ain’t none of my doin'”. “I know, Lindsay”, Harry whispered back suppressing a shudder, his vestigial Mormon rectitude making his gorge rise at such proximity to the mush-mouthed moccasin. Too bad I need the little catamite to break the filibuster, theres’ lots of places outside Las Vegas he could disappear to. Aloud, he said, “I’ll give you and John cover, don’t you worry, Lindsay, we’ll all be on the same page”. “And those comps at the Bellagio, Harry”, Lindsay begged, “I’ve been pining for that croupier since the first time I saw him”. “Those too, Lindsay, I promise”, Harry hissed through pressed lips, hoping to make the washroom before he threw up.

    nk (875f57)

  7. ES:

    Yes, they know the endgame. They are gambling that the implementation of Obamacare will alienate a huge segment of the population.

    They also are gambling that a government shutdown will not affect their purpose as much as the Dems and the media think.

    After the results of sequestration, they may be right. It’s a big gamble, but they both know that their political future is secure.

    However for some reason, people do get mad about the government not taking their money.

    Regardless, as I’ve said before, Cruz is not stupid. He’s playing King’s high and hoping the President’s winning smile will not result in an Ace.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  8. 4. Lee made mention of 5 or 6 rounds of back and forth between the houses if they keep 217 solid, reconciliation included or no.

    If they were so lucky that would leave no time for the Debt Limit funzies.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  9. Better watch out Feets, nk will grab that screenwriter job from under your nose and not look back.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  10. Bunches of my favorite peoples in this world infest the Senate:

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/09/23/McCain-Adviser-to-GQ-He-F-ing-Hates-Cruz

    Favorite as in those I would love to garrote until their head hits the pavement: McConnell, Cornyn, Coburn, et al.

    McCain I’d just thumb the eyes out of and kick until lifeless–he’s too old and decrepit to put up much of a fuss.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  11. “That there’s entirely too realistic though Mr. gary,” sniffed happyfeet. “Nobody goes to the movies to see reality.”

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  12. Turnabout is fairplay:

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/09/23/cruz-conservatives-embarrassed-to-vote-for-mccain

    True that, I told people that asked I voted for the VP, expecting McCain to follow in his sire’s pootprints and die of a massive coronary with haste.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  13. “But, because Cruz’s tactic requires him — technically but only technically — to “oppose” (try to filibuster) a bill he actually supports, it’s a tough sell for the low information voter.”

    It also requires that he oppose keeping the government open.

    Dhar (701018)

  14. It’s like those green lizard senators, in the Star Wars prequel, with the bad Japanese accents.

    narciso (3fec35)

  15. Do you work for “the government” Dhar? Thread to thread you seem to be quite focused on that particular aspect and also about being able to keep subsidies.

    elissa (8fed7c)

  16. It’s kind of a big deal. Shutting it down. Do you remember last time?

    Dhar (701018)

  17. the fascists worked really hard to pass obamacare

    let it never be said that mitch mcconnell doesn’t respect hard work

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  18. Do you work for the government, Dhar?

    elissa (8fed7c)

  19. Republican turnout in the next election, will be the lowest of all time. People will not be able to risk taking time to vote as the brown shirts will be watching you. Thanks to all the rino’s I have backed all these years. Pay back is a bitch.

    mg (31009b)

  20. voting lol

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  21. Have Cruz and Lee mapped out a potential endgame to all of this ?
    Comment by Elephant Stone (cddd87) — 9/23/2013 @ 6:40 pm

    — Not necessarily, but that does NOT make the fight any less worthwhile.

    Icy (ac1c68)

  22. 16. I remember the last time, nobody except the Lamestream knew government was closed.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  23. 19. Indeed, this plan to make the “Ol’ College Try” sorta depends on the target being fooled.

    IOW, the low information voter is going to think the Evil Empire was defeated and their SpurgeBucket runneth over(Dhar among present company).

    The conservatives will see the whole act from a mile off and seethe with rage.

    Only the pliant, obsequious, S&M Republican regulars will be sold on the delicious walkover, self-flagellating to heights of ecstasy.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  24. Obama is the only person threatening to shut down the government. He called Boner to tell him he would not negotiate. At all.

    JD (c17d22)

  25. Time to send money to Matthew Bevin for his primary run against Mitch McConnell.

    askeptic (2bb434)

  26. Comment by mg (31009b) — 9/23/2013 @ 7:44 pm

    Vote Absentee early and often.

    askeptic (2bb434)

  27. 22. 16. I remember the last time, nobody except the Lamestream knew government was closed.

    Comment by gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/23/2013 @ 8:08 pm

    I remember last time. I was on active duty in the Navy. I was supposed to be one of the people hating on Republicans for shutting down the gub’mint and causing me a bunch of pain per the MFM.

    And it really was no big deal.

    Steve57 (a256f0)

  28. 24. Some evidence to the fact:

    http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/09/ted-cruz-speech-on-floor-of-senate-today/

    The Dhimmis have kicked this puppy B4.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  29. 4. Comment by Elephant Stone (cddd87) — 9/23/2013 @ 6:40 pm

    Have Cruz and Lee mapped out a potential endgame to all of this

    The endgame is, the bill dies (so he really does oppose the bill) then the House passes a dozen separate continuing resolutions, that, combined, continue spending for everything except Obamacare.

    Except that if Harry Reid can amend the big bill, why can’t he amend any of the little ones? Why can’t he take any of the little ones and make it an all purposes continuing resolution?

    I suppose this could come closer to working if the House waited for the Senate to pass the bill(s) unchanged before passing more partial continuing resolutions, so in the end it might be down to only one, where they might be willing to tolerate no more spending in that category, but the Democraats would have assumed they wouldn’t.

    Cruz could be more consistent, BTW. by not opposing a vote on the bill, but merely opposing any kind of limitation on the ability to filibuster amendments, or any unanimous consent agreement to allow a vote on the Harry Reid amendment.

    Sammy Finkelman (8eda0c)

  30. I stopped voting for incumbents long ago, limiting myself to one in each election. Usually my city councilman.

    htom (412a17)

  31. If Cruz had thought out a strategy in advance – you know, before he started running ads blaming his fellow Republicans, not one of whom voted for Obama-Care, before he skipped caucus meetings and kept blindsiding all his colleagues, before he decided he didn’t need any coordination or consultation – maybe he would not be in the position of demanding we filibuster the bill he demanded the House pass.

    He looks like an idiot, for good reason.

    Obama-Care is primarily funded by changes to tax laws and other statutes, only some of it even needs appropriations. So you dummies could shut down the government, but not Obama-Care, which functions in effect as an entitlement until it is repealed.

    But don’t admit you’ve made a dumb mistake. Instead villify the Republicans voting FOR the bill you insisted upon. Way to go, Zippy.

    Estragon (19fa04)

  32. Estragon, that’s the Lindsey Graham version of reality, where Cruz’s plan is to use Senate procedure to turn a sure loser fight into a possible winner.

    What is your plan, Estragon? Is it more likely to succeed than Cruz’s? Or is it Lindsey’s plan, which is to vote in a way that allows Obamacare to be funded, but pretend you fought against that bill to the low infos?

    Ted Cruz doesn’t work for senior Senators from purple states. Ted Cruz works for Texas. We are sick and tired of the GOP not fighting for anything. We are sick of the GOP telling us they are fighting for something, but then not fighting for something. And most of all, we are sick and tired of the GOP being so nice to the left while being so nasty towards the few conservatives in congress who actually do sincerely fight.

    To the GOP, a conservative who means it, like Ted Cruz, makes them look bad. But if the entire GOP fought like Ted Cruz, we wouldn’t have Obamacare at all. We also would be able to shut it down right now. We also would have a country with a much better financial future.

    Personally, I blame Romney supporters and Mccain supporters. They have established how far left a GOP politician can go while still having the highest political aspiration (something most of them care about dearly). The few who want some kind of standard, like fiscal sanity or principles or integrity, are attacked as extremists or dumbasses. Always because ‘it looks dumb to fight like that’, which is essentially what you’re saying.

    If the GOP nominates someone Ted Cruz didn’t endorse and campaign for, I will not vote for them. I might even vote against them in hopes the GOP collapses sooner. All the GOP is today is a vehicle for lobbying.

    Dustin (303dca)

  33. I support shutting down the government even if there’s no political gain.

    It would be awesome if all entitlements were cut for a few months and a lot of sloths had to go out and earn a living.

    All the parts the left is really up in arms about a government shutdown are things we need to shut down anyway.

    And of course, the left knows this. They seek to tie it all together as Reid has done many times now, and say that any bill to cut anything is “dead on arrival”. You will have to shut the whole thing down to even get a chance at reform. The more entitlements they pack in, such as the Republican originated Obamacare, the more politically difficult it will seem to shut it down.

    But the haves and have nots of goverment largesse are distinct. And most of us are worse off from big government. A shutdown actually highlights just how little most of us need the federal bloat. It actually helps the conservative movement. But it doesn’t help the GOP, which is not conservative at all.

    Dustin (303dca)

  34. Oh noooooooooooooooooooesssss!!!!!! Someone has escaped the clutches of the Permanent Political Class.
    Must belittle, marginalize & destroy!!!11!!
    *Huff* *puff* Hyperventilating. Help! Please!!! Must … put …
    my … Est … rag … on. . . .

    Icy (ac1c68)

  35. “Personally, I blame Romney supporters and Mccain supporters.”

    Dustin – Interesting. I would blame the absence of more conservative candidates who could attract enough votes to win.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  36. Daleyrocks, we get the government we deserve. And the GOP has the leadership it deserves. I don’t want to refight the primary, but it is clear from GOP leadership that that fight is coming in 2016. they have either learned nothing or they really don’t care about the future of this country.

    We can see the venom from the GOP towards conservatives today. It’s worse than ever! The Mccains, Grahams, Kings, Murkoswkis represent big government and all the corruption and power and wealth that brings. We see Rubin smears and entrenched politicos tossing opponents off ballots and billionaires picking winners. We see the Journ-o-list types happily divide and conquer the reform minded conservative candidates with one stupid scandal after another. One cherry picked snippet or gaffe after another. This machine could take down most politicians. It systematically ensures that no conservative has a shot, but it’s certainly true that the conservatives have a hand in it by endlessly seeking reasons to oppose instead of reasons to support someone.

    but you’re right, in the end, that there wasn’t a conservative candidate who could attract enough votes to beat a Mccain or a Romney. The reasons for this are largely out of any of their hands, but it’s still the reality of it.

    And I think a big problem with that is we’re still trying to work inside the GOP. A GOP with a heck of a lot of Romney supporters in it. And therefore a GOP that has sent a clear message to all the Peter Kings and Mitch McConnells that you can have an extremely progressive record, and still make it to the highest point in the party. Going left is an easy way to get some good press and some good donations. Big government means a lot of lobbying, since corporations need to shape those loopholes in a way small business owners can’t even fathom.

    The whole thing would probably work OK if only the GOP’s rank and file had better standards and rejected someone who was as liberal as Mccain or Romney. But they don’t, and so Republican leadership is quite comfortable not fighting to stop Obamacare, and this country’s problems continue to get worse. I realize most of the rank and file Romney supporters actually just wanted to be rid of Obama and felt Romney was the most electable, but they were fools. Romney’s electability was largely born of bias in the media, and that bias evaporated, exposing the weakness of an unprincipled candidate. And predictably, Obama won an election he should have been crushed in, due to the economy.

    My saying I blame these Romney and Mccain supporters is unfair. There’s a lot of blame to go around. Education first. The media second. Ruthless Democrats third. And Romney supporters fourth. That feels less unfair.

    Dustin (303dca)

  37. Cruz tried to put together a wiley coyote trap and *surprise* it blew up in his face. His whole plan was unbelievably unlikely to work if the republicans had been united. Obviously they weren’t, and what’s more Cruz p*ssed all over his fellows in making his case guaranteeing they’d have every reason to not help him.

    It’s almost as if he was trying to set things up so that he’d lose. Now what possible reason could he possibly have to set himself up to be “betrayed” by the establishment?

    Oh right because most of you will clap like seals and send him money for his “willingness to fight.” Don’t you get tired of being taken for rubes by these people?

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  38. Cruz tried to put together a wiley coyote trap and *surprise* it blew up in his face.

    How? Nothing has even happened yet. It was a given from the start that RINOs would not want to go along.

    As you note, one feature of Cruz’s plan is that it will highlight who is willing to fight Obamacare and who isn’t. Indeed it could lead to a lot of Democrats being forced to vote in favor of Obamacare. Some of them will pay for that in the next election.

    And what has Cruz or the GOP lost for these efforts? Nothing. Obamacare is the law of the land already. The Supreme Court already ruled it’s both a tax and not a tax. Obama already has carte blanche to suspend or change any element he likes at a whim, thanks largely to a weakly led GOP.

    His whole plan was unbelievably unlikely to work if the republicans had been united.

    You’re wrong. If the GOP was united we they could do a lot. The democrats are bought and paid for and would fold if they had to, just as Obama has folded so many times to our nation’s enemies.

    Dustin (303dca)

  39. You can use you illusion-
    Let it take you where it may

    Icy (a7fd16)

  40. The last was for Ta-la-la-la-la.

    Icy (a7fd16)

  41. what Tra-la-la needs is a boot to the head.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5kGUW6M7W0

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  42. It is precious how “concerned” Tlalala is

    JD (5c1832)

  43. “Have Cruz and Lee mapped out a potential endgame to all of this ?”

    The inevitable happens and the people who can’t deal heap praise upon Cruz and Lee for leading them off a cliff, at the expense of the GOP, not the Dems.

    “Obama is the only person threatening to shut down the government. He called Boner to tell him he would not negotiate. At all.”

    That was over the debt ceiling. And frankly, this dog won’t hunt. People know it’s the GOP taking the hostage.

    “Do you work for the government, Dhar?”

    Nope but I’ve actually met congressional staffers. If you want to meet some you can probably head down to your district office.

    Dhar (701018)

  44. That was over the debt ceiling. And frankly, this dog won’t hunt. People know it’s the GOP taking the hostage.

    Nope. The public is pretty much evenly split in this now. They hate your beloved Unaffordable ObamaCare Act. And The One going out of the way to make clear he refuses to negotiate shows who is threatening to shut down the government, and take hostages, or whatever silly little analogy you and your fellow travelers choose to hurl around this week.

    Some of your best friends are congressional staffers. Well ain’t you just special. Why is it that you think they are entitled to something that everyone else cannot get?

    JD (5c1832)

  45. My Congressleeches were Rostenkowski, Blagojevic, Emanuel, Lipinski, and now Quigley. I want the salaries and benefits of their staffers paid to the homeless guys who wash my windshield off the I-94 ramp and say a cheerful “Good morning” and “God bless you”. They’re more useful and beneficial to society.

    nk (875f57)

  46. “Nope. The public is pretty much evenly split in this now.”

    On shutdown? No. The polls are clear that people don’t want a shutdown over the ACA. On default? perhaps. But that will change.

    “Some of your best friends are congressional staffers. Well ain’t you just special. Why is it that you think they are entitled to something that everyone else cannot get?”

    I don’t think it’s an entitlement — it’s their pay for their work! Do you not understand that people work for pay? I think it’s fine for staffers to get employer contributions to the their health plans just like they would get in the private sector.

    “I want the salaries and benefits of their staffers paid to the homeless guys who wash my windshield off the I-94 ramp and say a cheerful “Good morning” and “God bless you””

    I suppose if Vitter wants he is free to cut his own staff’s pay and benefits. Good luck with that.

    Dhar (701018)

  47. Vitter is Louisiana. I’m Chicago. Maybe his people cook a good gumbo for the constituents. Ours, up here, sit around on their heinies except during election season when they campaign for their bosses.

    nk (875f57)

  48. Durbin has good people. His constituent service is at a different level than the Machine hacks I mentioned.

    nk (875f57)

  49. The AMA is in Chicago. It better get good service when it calls Durbin’s office.

    nk (875f57)

  50. I think it’s fine for staffers to get employer contributions to the their health plans just like they would get in the private sector.

    The private sector employees cannot get employer contributions after being dumped onto the exchanges. It is like you don’t even know what this is about.

    JD (5c1832)

  51. I don’t think it’s an entitlement — it’s their pay for their work! Do you not understand that people work for pay?

    Extraordinarily douchey.

    JD (5c1832)

  52. I told the RNC not to bother asking for my usual contribution to the GOP’s next election effort, it would be reserved exclusively for candidates supporting my interests, which means it’s going entirely to Ted Cruz.

    ropelight (ab1d21)

  53. I think its high time Cornyn was primaried.

    Anyone down there in the pipeline? Cruz is a phenom, but say a lady lawyer who can speak well extemporaneously? Anyone?

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  54. I see a Wyatt, vet, and Stovall, businessman, in the mix with some nudging Gohmert, and there’s this:

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/cruz-declines-to-endorse-cornyn

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  55. The absurdity is that he was a pedophile and FBI for twenty-five years. His loose lips to the AP, if that’s not just the tip of the iceberg, are secondary. He would have “died a hero’s death in a shoot out against dangerous criminals” under J. Edgar Hoover, I believe, and not have been allowed to be a public embarassment.

    nk (875f57)

  56. No, the absurdity lies in the fact, they expect us to believe he and not higher ups were the leakers,

    narciso (3fec35)

  57. I conceded “tip of the iceberg”. Dispensable pedo fallguy. Maybe that’s why he was kept around?

    nk (875f57)

  58. “Pulling the wool over the eye” of the typical Republican voter is as easy as falling off a log.

    DN (e45de4)

  59. == we get the government we deserve==

    I hope you know by now that in the main I respect your zeal and sincerity for conservatism, D. But that line (which I know is not original to you) is one of the vaguest stupidest, set the teeth on edge phrases that people sometimes spit out into the blogosphere in frustration. What does it even mean? What is it supposed to imply? What hope does it offer by way of solution?

    elissa (622f9f)

  60. We get the government we deserve.

    Deserve: To have earned, be worthy of, merit.

    In a democracy, it means “you picked it, you got it” or even “you tolerate it, you have it”.

    Usefulness? Be better citizens and you’ll have a better government.

    Hope? Maybe none. Silk panties require white (clean) bottoms. The mud we put on the throne may be the same mud upon which the throne rests. That’s pretty much a given in democracy, actually. Our government is representative of us.

    It’s not complicated.

    nk (875f57)

  61. 60. A standard rule for good writing is to open with a topic sentence and follow it with an explanatory paragraph, to wit:

    We can see the venom from the GOP towards conservatives today. It’s worse than ever! The Mccains, Grahams, Kings, Murkoswkis represent big government and all the corruption and power and wealth that brings. We see Rubin smears and entrenched politicos tossing opponents off ballots and billionaires picking winners. We see the Journ-o-list types happily divide and conquer the reform minded conservative candidates with one stupid scandal after another. One cherry picked snippet or gaffe after another. This machine could take down most politicians. It systematically ensures that no conservative has a shot, but it’s certainly true that the conservatives have a hand in it by endlessly seeking reasons to oppose instead of reasons to support someone.

    There, not so opaque, is it?

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  62. What does it even mean? What is it supposed to imply? What hope does it offer by way of solution?

    My interpretation of that, or the implication of that, is based on one of the most basic pillars (ie, the dynamics of people voting with their pocketbook) that shape our society — and political forces — today. Namely, the following…

    gallup.com, July 2013: Americans are still more likely to blame former President George W. Bush “a great deal” or “a moderate amount” than President Barack Obama for the country’s current economic problems. More Americans blamed Bush during Obama’s first year as president in 2009; however, since mid-2010, views have been steady at levels similar to today’s.

    About a third of Americans, 35%, assign a high degree of blame to Bush alone for current economic problems, about double the percentage blaming solely Obama (19%). Another 34% blame both, while 11% say neither is highly to blame.

    The finding that most Americans continue to lay heavy blame on Bush for today’s economic problems may help explain why Obama’s overall job approval rating has consistently exceeded his approval rating on the economy throughout his presidency, even while the economy has consistently ranked as the nation’s top problem. Most recently, 48% in the June 20-24 Gallup survey approved of the overall job Obama is doing as president, similar to the 46% who, in the same poll, said he bears little to no blame for current economic conditions, but higher than the 42% who, in early June, said they approve of Obama’s job performance on the economy.

    As for the solution? Ask the people in places like Venezuela, France, Mexico, Argentina, Greece, Detroit/urban America. Regrettably, there may be none.

    Mark (58ea35)

  63. I know he realized water is wet, but baby steps;

    http://hotair.com/archives/2013/09/24/wapo-hillary-interview-whitewashed-benghazi/

    narciso (3fec35)

  64. Comment by Estragon (19fa04) — 9/23/2013 @ 11:11 pm

    So you dummies could shut down the government, but not Obama-Care,

    …which is all true, although one thing maybe could be stopped.

    The advertising to get people to enroll.

    The truth is, though, this advertising is largely a waste of money. It won’t affect how many people buy insurance.

    (What it could affect is how many people know the URL, but they could probably count on newspapers to publicize the URLs – in New York it’s NYStateof Health.ny.gov, according to Bill Hammond’s column in today’s New York Daily News:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/obamacare-works-article-1.1465344

    http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/obamacare-works-article-1.1465344?pgno=1

    Because the true test of the Affordable Care Act is whether it really is affordable for the people who are supposed to buy it…..Obama is betting that most people will bite the bullet and sign up — thus improving their access to basic care and gaining the security of no longer living one car accident or cancer diagnosis away from bankruptcy.

    If enough people take the leap — as they did under a similar law in Massachusetts — Obamacare will be a historic success.

    But if too many decide they’d rather pay the tax penalty — which, in the first year, will be $95 or 1% of family income, whichever is more — the President’s signature accomplishment will be an undeniable bust.

    It’s probably not looking good – therefore the planned advertising campaign.

    Which won’t work.

    Sammy Finkelman (8eda0c)

  65. Sorry, http://www.nystateofhealth.ny.gov Isn’t that what I typed?

    Sammy Finkelman (8eda0c)

  66. It is complicated, nk. Like many people I do not feel I “deserve” or have “earned” either the government monopoly that rules Illinois or the corrupt lifers and lying leaders that reign in Washington. I and my family do not deserve to have to roll in the muck and poor outcomes of our pathetic and broken education system, or in the results of 50 plus years of misguided social policies which we had nothing to do with. And let’s not forget the fourth branch of government–the media. I know that I am an informed and good citizen and a contributing member of society. I am not a leech or a nanny. I pay my bills and give time and money to charities where I think I can be of the most help. I try to plan for my retirement and bought and paid for a house I could afford. I consciously do what I can to lead a healthy life and try to prevent disease. I am not sure what more I can do.

    Yes elections do have consequences. No argument there. But “We get the government we deserve” is an asinine statement. That’s my opinion anyway. YMMV.

    elissa (622f9f)

  67. I would never try to speak for nk, elissa, but I always saw the “we get the government we deserve” phrase as a jeremiad about what has gone wrong, and regrets about what happened before.

    I view it as a warning, that when you don’t fight for good government, you get what Huey Long promised those who didn’t chip into his campaign.

    “Those of you who come in with me now will receive a big piece of the pie. Those of you who delay, and commit yourselves later, will receive a smaller piece of pie. Those of you who don’t come in at all will receive – Good Government!” Huey Long

    It is VERY instructive to look into the career of Huey Long. Lots of parallels to today, and I believe many more to come.

    Many folks opted out the last few elections. They don’t do the things you mentioned. They passively “get” their news from FaceBook or the equivalent of “The Daily Show.” Even on the Right. They helped to put us in this mess, and still want to be able to snark and complain.

    Again, not very happy these days, am I.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  68. 66.Comment by Estragon (19fa04) — 9/23/2013 @ 11:11 pm

    So you dummies could shut down the government, but not Obama-Care,

    …which is all true, although one thing maybe could be stopped.

    The advertising to get people to enroll.

    Aren’t our OFA minders cute? As tho ‘thick as a brick’ might be found persuasive.

    We do hope you earn official Ear Leader autographed glossies, we just wish you weren’t defacing the whitespace hereabouts.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  69. Maybe it is complicated. What do we do with the marching morons?

    nk (875f57)

  70. 71. Just grabbing at straws but our entrenched two-party system isn’t keeping up, even tho with ineligible voters we’ve clawed back some participation.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  71. Cornyn is getting crucified on twitter and all over the state. Every single one of his state offices has been bombarded by phone calls from constituents. They have essentially taken the phones off the hooks and now all we get are busy signals. You can’t even leave messages at the DC office anymore.

    Twitter is literally unanimous in it’s disdain for him and people are now calling for Cornyn to be voted out office in 2014. People are so angry at him, they are mentioning words like “traitor”, the “Alamo”, and “backstabber”.

    But more than that, “cloture” is the word of the day. So people really do get this issue. Cornyn is not going to skate by with some absurd explanation that he supported the de-funding of obamacare. Nobody in Texas is buying that. If he goes through with this, he could very well go down in the primary. Texans have LONG memories.

    Bets (717964)

  72. 72. Conclusion:

    In a 2001 article in the American Political Science Review, Michael McDonald and Samuel Popkin argued, that at least in the United States, voter turnout since 1972 has not actually declined when calculated for those eligible to vote, what they term the voting-eligible population.[72] In 1972, noncitizens and ineligible felons (depending on state law) constituted about 2% of the voting-age population. By 2004, ineligible voters constituted nearly 10%. Ineligible voters are not evenly distributed across the country – 20% of California’s voting-age population is ineligible to vote – which confounds comparisons of states. Furthermore, they argue that an examination of the Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey shows that turnout is low but not declining among the youth, when the high youth turnout of 1972 (the first year 18–20 year olds were eligible to vote in most states) is removed from the trendline.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  73. 73. Thanks for the update, trending positive.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  74. now let me preface this by saying Cornyn’s been an altogether disreputable whore for many many moons

    not sure why it took so long for Texas to wake up

    but it’s Rick Perry’s silence this week what’s the bigger story I think

    granted he tends to have trouble making the sentences

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  75. Rick Perry hasn’t been quiet, he just hasn’t gotten much press. Perry said he’s against defunding ObamaCare but he wants to tweak it. Perhaps that’s because he’s hewing to the establishment GOP approach and/or maybe it’s because he wants to differentiate himself from Ted Cruz, but my guess is he’s positioning himself to run for President and he thinks this will work best for his campaign.

    I think he’s wrong about that, but what it signals to me is Perry knows he’s playing second fiddle to Cruz in Texas.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  76. I deserve neither this sh*t government nor the sh*tty people that voted for it.

    Icy (a7fd16)

  77. Cornyn wants a leadership position so he’s staying loyal to McConnell. But he’ll play fast and loose with Texans when he thinks he can get away with it. That attitude got Kay Bailey an early retirement but Cornyn had luckier timing than she did. Cornyn’s war chest is too big and it’s probably too late for a credible opponent to show up by next year, which means he will get 6 more years. I predict that will be it for him.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  78. Ted Cruz is a determined and smart man, Rick Perry is a determined and passionate man, and John Cornyn is a loyal and smart man. They are all good qualities but I think Cruz’s combination works best during these times.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  79. Mr. Governor Perry deserves much much more press for his bold defense of obamacare I think.

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  80. 77. I know Perry’s name might come up among those looking to unify the Right, a worthy goal.

    I just don’t get the impression, following his last run around the block, he’s got the legs for it, or the team, the presence, the agility, lots of wish list items.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  81. 80. “John Cornyn is a loyal and smart man”

    While no judge of men, my watching Judiciary Committee testimony over some years leads me to consider Sen. Cornyn no Orrin Hatch. Could be the agility thing again, but he has always seemed pedestrian by comparison.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  82. Bloom of the rose

    As these three polls show very clearly, Democrats have no reason to surrender to Cruz on this point, with overwhelming public support for their position. Had we fought for delaying language rather than defunding, we might have been in a somewhat better negotiating position right now.

    Wyle E Coyote – genius

    Ed at hotair

    EPWJ (c3dbb4)

  83. EPWJ,

    What are your “inside sources” at Fox News telling you about the circumstances of Fox News correspondent Dennis Kunich’s interview of Assad, last week ?

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  84. 84. “Had we”

    Cap’n Ed is a moderate out of Eagan, MN, a former Pawlenty supporter for President.

    Had we convinced neighboring IA that a stealth Romany ‘Open for Business’ candidate, originator of the ObamaneyCare moniker, was a vertebrate we might have, possibly beaten the antiChrist.

    Going forward, given that there might not be collusion between leadership of the House and the minority Senate, why don’t we assume that the House could show a spine if they were so disposed.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  85. bloom off the rose part II

    By making a futile and foredoomed attempt to defund ObamaCare, Congressional Republicans have created the distraction that Obama so much needs. Already media attention has shifted to the possibility of a government shutdown.

    Politically, it doesn’t matter that the Republicans are not really trying to shut down the government. What matters is that this distraction solves Barack Obama’s political problems that he could not possibly have solved by himself.

    -Thomas Sowell If defunding were possible, Sowell writes, it would be worth the fight. However, dramatic gestures with no possibility of success aren’t helpful in warfare or in politics:

    go home ted…

    EPWJ (c3dbb4)

  86. Cornyn is no dummy but he’s very reserved publicly, so you won’t see many gotcha moments. He served as a state district court judge, a Texas Supreme Court justice, and Texas attorney general. However, it’s true he went to a lower tier law school.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  87. EPWJ,

    Cruz has always said the chances of success are remote but that doesn’t mean it isn’t worth it because there are benefits. The Instapundit summarized the benefits earlier today:

    BYRON YORK: GOP flinches at Obamacare plan devised by Sens. Ted Cruz, Mike Lee. I don’t think things are as disorganized as they seem. I see it this way: (1) Effort to defund — if it succeeds, it’s a win. If it doesn’t, it’s forced a lot of vulnerable Dems to vote in favor of ObamaCare just before it goes into effect: (2) ObamaCare goes into effect, producing a train wreck of increased premiums, implementation snafus; (3) In 2014, GOP can say if you want this repealed, you’ve got to give us both houses of Congress — and, in 2016, the White House.

    Establishment types have been in the Beltway box for so long they can’t see the forest for the trees. They need to learn to think outside the box, Eric.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  88. Next year, what name do you think the public will remember when they want to stop ObamaCare — Cornyn or Cruz?

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  89. “It is VERY instructive to look into the career of Huey Long. Lots of parallels to today, and I believe many more to come.”

    Simon – I had a Great Uncle who worked in Huey’s university system who did not agree with Huey on a number of policies. The relationship did not end well but produced good stories.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  90. EPWJ,

    What are your “inside sources” with Cornyn’s office telling you about Cornyn’s future plans ?

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  91. Of course, if you think the public will want to keep ObamaCare next year, then they won’t like Cruz. But I don’t think they will like ObamaCare next year … or ever.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  92. I’m sorry to hear the Gov Perry is not standing strong for defunding Obamacare. If it really is because he can’t be seen as following Ted Cruz’s lead that is pretty pathetic. Perry has been quite outspoken against Obamacare from the period before it was passed into law, and his standing strong on this before it was popular to do so was one reason I saw him as a leader with principles.

    Goes to show Daleyrocks had a point that the candidates in 2012 were not good enough.

    I deserve neither this sh*t government nor the sh*tty people that voted for it.

    Comment by Icy (a7fd16) — 9/24/2013 @ 9:31 am

    You personally do not, but we as a whole country definitely got what we deserved. There is too much intellectual laziness and materialism, and not enough principles or personal responsibility from voters. The GOP has repeatedly gotten the leadership it deserves too, as it has favored the next guy in line and preservation of entitlements over principles.

    Dustin (303dca)

  93. By making a futile and foredoomed attempt to defund ObamaCare, Congressional Republicans have created the distraction that Obama so much needs. Already media attention has shifted to the possibility of a government shutdown.

    Politically, it doesn’t matter that the Republicans are not really trying to shut down the government. What matters is that this distraction solves Barack Obama’s political problems that he could not possibly have solved by himself.

    I love this idiocy. The MFM can lie to cover Obama’s arse on a lot of subjects. Benghazi, F&F, even the IRS since for most individual Americans those administration atrocities aren’t an immediate concern. I fully expect, as we’ve seen already, for the MFM to go along with the administration’s lies about how disarming Syria is all going totally to plan while Assad and Putin openly mock him.

    But they can’t lie to millions of Americans about the disaster that is Obamacare. They’ll be living through the destruction of their jobs and their health care.

    Since EPWJ didn’t provide a link, as he usually doesn’t because he has to hide his questionable sources, I don’t know what idiot wrote that. But in this case it does actually represent conventional wisdom. As if it’s always 1995 and the chess pieces are set exactly as they were when it was Clinton v. Gingrich. And the battle concerns only details of federal policy.

    In other words, conventional wisdom = stupidity in circulation.

    Steve57 (a256f0)

  94. Or what DRJ said @89.

    Steve57 (a256f0)

  95. EPWJ,

    What are your “inside sources” within Miley Cyrus’ camp informing you about Miley’s recent Rolling Stone interview ?

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  96. 87. While not intellectually in Dr. Sowell’s circuit of heaven, I think limiting our scan of the chessboard to two moves ahead is too reductionist.

    The Speaker has 70-odd loyal troops who will stick thru thick or thin. On the three sheets to the windward the numbers are roughly 80.

    The Majority Whip, McCarthy has kept his nose clean thru all and sundry dustups. How Boehner preforms, come what may, will weigh heavily on the ledger of his stewardship come January.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  97. Steve57,

    That was written by a very smart conservative, Thomas Sowell, and he’s right about a lot of things. His overall point is that this has given Obama the chance to put the scandals behind him and regain the initiative. That’s a valid point but I think he’s missing the nuances pointed out by the Instapundit. I think he’s also thinking short-term and missing the long-term big picture of making sure Americans know who is against ObamaCare.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  98. Here’s a link to Sowell’s article.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  99. In other words, I agree with gary gulrud that Sowell is only thinking two steps ahead.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  100. Plus, don’t miss the Instapundit’s last point where he says the GOP can use this to argue we need control of the House, the Senate and the Presidency. Knowing it intellectually and seeing it play out are not the same. Does anyone doubt we must have all three now?

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  101. Following up on comment 73 by Bets: Cornyn is getting hammered. This may actually hurt him next year after all.

    I tried calling John Cornyn’s Washington office and each office he has in Texas. There was a busy signal in every office except DC, Houston and Dallas. In those offices, it takes you to an automated system that gives you the option of leaving a message or talking to someone. When you choose that option, it says the person isn’t available and the mailbox is full.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  102. DRJ, I’ve noticed quite a few otherwise intelligent people have a huge blindspot on this issue. Dr. Krauthammer, for instance, is one as well.

    By next Summer almost no one will remember the narrative that “the Republicans tried to shut down government over Obamacare.” And of those who do, they won’t count that against the Republicans who tried.

    Steve57 (a256f0)

  103. My recollection is the DC switchboard changed how things work after the Tea Party started, and they are able to route extra phones to Congressional offices that get inundated. That’s probably why the phone in Cornyn’s DC office is ringing. The problem is that Cornyn doesn’t have enough staff to handle all the calls.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  104. This isn’t 1995. The imperial President is intent on riling the American people.

    Kerry to sign UN arms treaty opposed by Senate, NRA

    Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/global-affairs/un-treaties/324229-kerry-to-sign-un-arms-treaty-opposed-by-senate-nra#ixzz2fpnULUOz
    Follow us: @thehill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook

    The article is mostly useless; it doesn’t tell you that the UN treaty mandates a firearm registry.

    And you can be damned sure when the Senate doesn’t ratify the treaty, and it won’t, Obama will do one of his usual, “if Congress won’t act, I will” and put the treaty into force by executive fiat.

    Steve57 (a256f0)

  105. “There is too much intellectual laziness and materialism, and not enough principles or personal responsibility from voters.”

    Dustin – It also helps to remember that people who hang out in blog comment sections are generally not typical voters.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  106. Dustin – It also helps to remember that people who hang out in blog comment sections are generally not typical voters.

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/24/2013 @ 11:05 am

    Yeah, that’s true. But still, the voters are ultimately responsible. The GOP didn’t get where it is now by magic. The government didn’t either. The media bias and educational decay were permitted to happen.

    2010 was a moment of hope, where obamacare inspired a lot of turnout from freedom minded voters. And then that evaporated. I think some of that is because Tea Party groups were well suppressed by the IRS and unable to raise funds in a system that runs on money, but a lot of it is because the GOP thought the easier way to the White House required it to nominate someone whose record was poor on the healthcare mandate.

    Today I see a lot of the same issues from GOP leadership, where the hard path is criticized for being a hard path by leaders who do not offer any alternative.

    Dustin (303dca)

  107. As I sit in front of a massive stone fireplace with my wife watching the snow fall on the lake and pondering my 61st birthday tomorrow, I’m also reminiscing about my country and how much has changed. So very much not for the better. I want to be optimistic, but it’s a tough slog in that direction.

    Colonel Haiku (ed0339)

  108. Colonel,

    Sounds like a fun cozy time with the little lady at Crater Lake. Happy Birthday to you.

    By the way, I don’t understand why you’re having difficulty grasping the current status of the United States of Obama.
    President O-bomb-a says the economy is vastly improved, and that the world is safer today than it was five years ago. He also says that O-bomb-a-Care will greatly reduce your medical expenditures, while eliciting research & development to result in groundbreaking advances in medical science.

    Al Qaeda is dead. And the oceans have stopped rising ?

    So, what’s to worry about, other than the 49ers’ play of the past two Sundays ?

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  109. oops, in #110 there shouldn’t be a question mark following “oceans have stopped rising.”
    It was intended to be a definitive statement.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  110. Ted Cruz just started a filibuster on the Senate floor. His first words were “I rise today to oppose ObamaCare.”

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  111. Happy birthday, Haiku!

    I’m afraid I’m right there with you on the desire for optimism, and the challenge finding some.

    But living in a great and free country is rare and unusual to the human condition. People still find lives worth living based on family when they are not blessed with an exceptional society.

    Dustin (303dca)

  112. DO NOT assume Cornyn will be re-elected. Dewhurst had a war chest too. Look how quickly that went to shit. And if Cruz and Abbott endorse a half-way decent TP candidate in the primary…this could very well be the end for him. I guarantee, a candidate is already being vetted (if they already haven’t been).

    This is not playing out well. Does Cornyn really think that the phone calls are going to end today? What does he think will happen tomorrow? Or the next day, when Texans cease being civil about the whole matter?

    Bets (717964)

  113. Thanks, Dustin. I’m counting all my blessings and praying for those of us who are less fortunate… and for my country.

    Colonel Haiku (ed0339)

  114. Just to reprise the DeLay interview one more time:

    http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/tom-delay-book-lecture-obamacare/2013/09/23/id/527114

    109. If you’re at that lodge on Crater Lake we’re all very jealous, enjoy.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  115. “Yeah, that’s true. But still, the voters are ultimately responsible.”

    Dustin – Yes, and you have been looking for suitable candidates to blame for your butt hurt ever since your candidate flamed out. Are you planning to send flame mail to everybody who voted for Romney? What is your plan?

    Why not move forward instead of backward?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  116. So you’re a Libra, Col. OK, that explains some things–especially the Haiku. Happy birthday tomorrow, and many more.

    elissa (622f9f)

  117. Thanks, ES and Elissa! Weird to see so much snow falling in September…

    Colonel Haiku (ed0339)

  118. 109, Col., I guess today is a day for Libras to ponder their future. My B-day is in two weeks.

    On a completely bizarre segway, Christian Ponder had better ponder if he has a future as a NFL QB.

    PCD (7a7072)

  119. Colonel – Birthdays only come once a year. Glad you are with your wife. Aren’t you happy you are not a birthday.

    Get busy!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  120. 115. By the way, the Court of Appeals overturned Tom Delay’s conviction the other day.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/20/us/politics/conviction-of-delay-in-texas-donation-case-is-overturned.html

    Sammy Finkelman (8eda0c)

  121. Dustin – Yes, and you have been looking for suitable candidates to blame for your butt hurt ever since your candidate flamed out. Are you planning to send flame mail to everybody who voted for Romney? What is your plan?

    Why not move forward instead of backward?

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/24/2013

    That’s not entirely untrue about the butthurt. It’s very frustrating that a candidate with a strong record is no match for a candidate with a terrible record but better stage presence. It is basically everything that is wrong with the GOP in a nutshell.

    I do not plan to reason with the RINOs, no. But I no longer will help them. I volunteered for a hell of a lot of GOP elections, donated, and voted for weak republicans because they were the choice of the party. I voted for Romney, Mccain, and Bush 43 twice, even though the second round I knew he was expanding the cost and intrusion of the government. Each time, the main reason for my vote was my fear of the democrat nominee’s policies. But I know that my support means the GOP’s cynical insiders rely on loyalty despite no progress for reform. That is why the GOP is the mess it is.

    Moving forward means moving backwards to a point where this country cared about the country, but if I said I thought I had a realistic idea of how to make this work I would be lying. I’m actually expecting things to get so bad that secession becomes the least crazy way out.

    dustin (303dca)

  122. And I hope that this continues to be a trend. A lot of freedom minded conservatives are saying they no longer have a use for the GOP. Nominating Romney came with a heavy price for the GOP’s long term health, so I hope the people who made that mistake take that into consideration. Many of them actually do not want conservative reform… they know that kicking the can down the road another ten or twenty years will save them some troubles. They know exactly what this means, and I hold those folks in the exact same regard as I do the Cloward Piven socialists.

    dustin (303dca)

  123. “That’s not entirely untrue about the butthurt.”

    Dustin – And here earlier you said you did not want to relitigate the primaries yet each comment has been directed at doing exactly that.

    You know what, I blame the supporters of Perry, Cain, Santorum, Bachmann, and Gingrich for not sufficiently promoting their candidates to prevent Romney from getting the nomination. How does that taste?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  124. Dustin – And here earlier you said you did not want to relitigate the primaries yet each comment has been directed at doing exactly that.

    There is no need to relitigate the primaries. Romney’s only real argument over the other leaders was the promise of electability. He lost quite badly despite Obama running on a terrible economy.

    I blame the supporters of Perry, Cain, Santorum, Bachmann, and Gingrich for not sufficiently promoting their candidates to prevent Romney from getting the nomination.

    You are quite right. And that should have been their goal. They should have united in order to avoid the disaster of another establishment republican whose record made it very difficult for him to do what must be done: hammer Obama for the mandate and other progressive policies.

    When Perry made his first really bad gaffe, the “i don’t think you have a heart”, my mind said that this could be rationalized and Perry remained a 90% ally with the right. My heart said that he didn’t know what the hell he was doing and it was time to move on. I also should have seen that Gingrich’s intellect could not make up for his unprincipled record (he isn’t that much better than Romney on the mandate).

    There were many conservative candidates, and we let ourselves be divided and conquered. I probably should have backed Santorum. Something about him never really clicked for me, but he was the least bad option and I refused to acknowledge it out of stubbornness because I knew Perry’s record was far superior. That record doesn’t amount to a hill of beans when the candidate can’t keep his foot out of his mouth. Of course me alone meant nothing. Had all of us among the right looked over the candidates and accepted loss earlier, unifying behind one of the candidates, I think a conservative would be in the white house. I sincerely believe that it is not too late for a conservative to win the White House if he hammers the democrat compellingly. The arguments work if they are made!

    Anyway, you’re right that we many conservative camps failed to do what needed to be done to overcome the Romney campaign, which absolutely is a key reason Obama is still in power.

    How does that taste?

    No better than it must taste to have said Romney was electable.

    dustin (303dca)

  125. Glad tidings, PCD and Daley!

    Colonel Haiku (ed0339)

  126. I’m thinking it wouldn’t have mattered who the R candidate was, the election was rigged and Obama will forever be President Asterisk.

    Colonel Haiku (ed0339)

  127. I’m thinking it wouldn’t have mattered who the R candidate was, the election was rigged and Obama will forever be President Asterisk…

    Colonel Haiku (ed0339)

  128. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot

    Colonel Haiku (ed0339)

  129. We are all mere men and women and we all made our share of the mistake in 2012. A lot of people have complained about those who didn’t vote for Romney for having too much principle to do so, and I think it makes more sense to note how this was a known factor before nomination, so it’s those who nominated the fracture of the GOP who own the loss. If the GOP nominated Michelle Obama in 2016 would it be my fault for not voting for her?

    Look at McConnell or the rest of these bozos. They are on the wrong side, and it is wrong to support them.

    I wish Romney a long and healthy life, but I do not support these guys winning power in government. We need to establish a boundary for how leftward a government or a politician can go before he is not welcome in the GOP. Until that happens, I’m not part of the GOP. Some say this will ruin the party (what party? What are they actually doing today?) but I’m only talking about fiscal sanity and some basic principles about limited government power. I think there is ample room for flexibility on practically all matters so long as the federal government is restrained in size and scope.

    I would shut up if I thought we learned out lesson, as I thought in 2008 when Mccain lost. but look at McConnell and tell me we’ve learned anything.

    Dustin (303dca)

  130. I’m thinking it wouldn’t have mattered who the R candidate was, the election was rigged and Obama will forever be President Asterisk…

    Comment by Colonel Haiku (ed0339) — 9/24/2013 @ 3:09 pm

    It didn’t help that the IRS did what it did to suppress the Tea Party. Especially at the primary level. I am unsure of the degree of election fraud, but the degree of anger the democrats in power have for voter ID suggests it’s a real issue.

    That’s a valid point.

    Dustin (303dca)

  131. Dustin I really try to understand your ongoing frustration and disappointment with the Rick Perry deal. Surely in your deepest most thoughtful moments you must`see what a basket case his whole candidacy was start to finish. He simply did not present as a credible presidential candidate. Surely you must see why he did not prevail in the primaries. Yet you cannot seem to accept the results of the open primaries that were held in all 50 states. You cannot seem to accept the fact that it was real red blooded American voters in those 50 states who chose the 2012 GOP nominee–not a small group of nefarious lords on Mt. Olympus. I’m sorry but when you start talking about secession I cannot take much else you say remotely seriously. Do you really believe you’ve thought through how secession would work and how it would affect Texans? No. I don’t believe you have.

    Senator Rubio just said on the senate floor that Republicans may be talking, weighing, even arguing, about tactics–but he notes that no Republican in either chamber is suggesting or has ever suggested that Obamacare is anything but a terrible awful no good idea for America and Americans.

    elissa (622f9f)

  132. Hey, I can pick any person or group I feel like and blame them for a lost election if it makes me feel better. It’s an easy and silly game and the left plays it all the time about things completely unrelated to elections.

    Winning!!!!!!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  133. Sometimes it is hard to tell which side is demanding purity.

    JD (5c1832)

  134. We have 4 entitlements we cannot afford and 2 we can barely afford.

    One party is responsible for all of it, under Bush he tried to get rid of the largest one, came closer to it than anyone.

    And he was president….

    So temper expectations with a brilliant mind that to m is playing games, ala Palin, and we remember how that turned out…

    EPWJ (f44e22)

  135. Not ignoring y’all, but I’ll let you all have the last word. You know my opinion!

    Dustin (303dca)

  136. JD – Just tell me who to blame.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  137. Daley – I don’t care who you blame.

    JD (5c1832)

  138. Dustin,

    Jee-sus, man, not everyone can be as pure and holy as you.
    Go join the Libertarian Party.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  139. Dustin,

    This week, it is National Dictators Day at the UN. We also have a budget as well as a debt ceiling to address. And there’s sh*t going on in Kenya, Pakistan, Iraq, to name just a few.

    Yet the sanctimonious among us keep banging the drum against…Mitt Romney !
    “He has a beautiful grandchild, BUT…”

    For Jee-sus’ sake, we live in a republic, and the GOP nominee reflects the will of conservatives and Republicans across the entire country—not just Texas, Wyoming, or Utah—but the entire country.

    How can you ask the moonbat left wing Democrats to compromise with us, if you can’t even bring yourself to compromise with…Mitt Romney !

    Unbelievable. The sanctimony just plain stinks.
    Let’s learn from history, but not allow history to swallow us whole.
    The next eye on the prize is 2014—not 2012.
    Keep.Your.Eye.On.The.Ball.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  140. Elephant stone – you would direct your ire at McCain. And McConnell. And Graham. Not Dustin.

    JD (5c1832)

  141. JD,

    Dustin has a long history of “well, I’m not sure I can vote for the GOP nominee this time, or next time.”
    The GOP nomination was two years ago. Today, we have other fights on our hands which require all hands on deck.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  142. Yes, and krauthammer and rubin, and carlson, seem to think we can forfeit this match, who knows why, 2010 was a proxy match for 2012, as 2014 will be for this next round,

    narciso (3fec35)

  143. And in the end, what? This is all foolish. This wasn’t going to work. So what was all the fighting about? The symbolism of it? Do we usually have Enormous Bruising Fights over stuff that is completely symbolic and without force?

    This reminds me again that we seem to want to fight other conservative-leaning people more than we want to fight Democrats. We don’t like Reid, but we hate the RINOs among us

    -ace

    But the financial winner is Ted eh book deals honorariums…. yummy

    EPWJ (f44e22)

  144. Oh shut up, Eric. Graham and McCain and their elk should take some bruising, but they’re not because they’re curled up in the foetal position in the corner and their well-padded behinds are protecting them. It’s Cruz who’s taking it on the chin. And if Ace is so f***in g smart, then how come I never go to his site anymore?

    nk (875f57)

  145. Hey, EPWJ, instead of always beating up on Ted Cruz, why not aim your bow and arrows at the Democrats for once ?

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  146. Book deals. That is EPWJ’s default go-to slur. Against people that actually espouse conservative ideals, and fight for them.

    JD (b2da42)

  147. Next thing you know, EPWJ will be claiming to have inside sources at Fox News.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  148. Dustin has a long history of “well, I’m not sure I can vote for the GOP nominee this time, or next time.”
    The GOP nomination was two years ago. Today, we have other fights on our hands which require all hands on deck.

    Comment by Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 9/24/2013 @

    You are mistaken, to put it nicely.

    I argued for people to vote for Romney (I even wrote a blog post about it, and I have only written about ten) and I worked for the campaigns of Bush in 2004 and Mccain in 2008.

    Jee-sus, man, not everyone can be as pure and holy as you.
    Go join the Libertarian Party.

    Comment by Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 9/24/2013

    I do not pretend to be pure or holy. It was a huge compromise for me to accept supporting Gingrich and believe it or not I was compromising to support Perry, at least on a couple of things.

    Romney proposed Obamacare and banned guns. He described himself as progressive. You are misguided to claim that opposing Romney amounts to a call for purity.

    By the way, it was less than one year ago that Romney failed to beat Obama in the last presidential election. Pretty recent history, not that I accept your view that something “two years ago” shouldn’t be discussed.

    It related directly to the topic of this thread, which is that the establishment GOP is dishonest and does not fight for reform, with an excuse that it lost before the fight started.

    the GOP nominee reflects the will of conservatives

    No, elephant stone, it clearly does not. The GOP nominee hasn’t been particularly conservative in about a quarter of a century. The GOP nominee reflects the will of whoever voted in the GOP primary, except in Virginia where the ballot was unconstitutionally screwed with.

    You are much more left leaning than I am, and I respect your freedom to be that way. I recall you seemed to support Senator Snowe. It’s a free country and you can do that. But you do not have any right to demand my “hands on deck” for campaigns that benefit the Murkowskis or the Mccains or the Grahams of this party. I support freedom, limited government, and a balanced budget. I have and will do what I can to further those causes, but that’s completely up to me.

    Romney’s supporters knew that nominating Romney would greatly fracture the GOP. Instead of accepting responsibility for that, they blame those who simply don’t agree with a more progressive GOP. I don’t even understand where people like you get that sense of entitlement, but it doesn’t matter. It’s reality that the GOP has lost my support and will continue to lose the faith of a lot of conservatives if it continues down the path we see in this post. Get mad at me for honestly explaining it if you like, but that won’t change it. You can’t insult me back into this tiny tent you guys have.

    Dustin (303dca)

  149. So you’re a Libra, Col. OK, that explains some things–especially the Haiku. Happy birthday tomorrow, and many more.
    Comment by elissa (622f9f) — 9/24/2013 @ 12:12 pm

    — I’m a Libra, too.
    Not sure if that explains anything.
    Perhaps it’s why we are of the same ilk.

    Icy (dc4ea6)

  150. Happy Birthday to our Libras, Icy and Colonel Haiku.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  151. I’m at the other end of the Libra range, about three-and-a-half weeks from now. Thank you, though!

    Icy (dc4ea6)

  152. Hey, EPWJ, instead of always beating up on Ted Cruz, why not aim your bow and arrows at the Democrats for once ?

    Well, at least give him credit for supporting staunch — and staunchly conservative — Republicans like Dede Scozzafava.

    Mark (58ea35)

  153. Icy, I didn’t realize it was your birthday too. I hope you have a great one.

    Dustin (303dca)

  154. Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus backed Sen. Ted Cruz’s anti-Obamacare quasi-filibuster Tuesday, possibly sending a message to senior GOP leaders who are criticizing Cruz’s tactics in defunding Obamacare.

    “In a fight between Harry Reid and Ted Cruz, I will stand with Ted Cruz any day,” Priebus wrote in an email Tuesday headlined “I stand with Ted.” ”Today, Senator Cruz has taken the fight to defund ObamaCare to the Senate floor. I hope you will join me in standing with him in solidarity.”

    http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/24/rnc-chairman-backs-cruz-in-party-splitting-obamacare-battle/

    elissa (491145)

  155. Elissa, that’s a great sign! I hope the GOP wisely follows his lead. It’s politically smart and only takes a spine.

    Dustin (303dca)

  156. Happy B-day Colonel and Icy; I enjoy your wit and bent.

    Cruz has been the only bright light in a horribly miserable day today.

    Angelo (9a2373)

  157. 156. Elissa, that’s a great sign! I hope the GOP wisely follows his lead. It’s politically smart and only takes a spine.

    Comment by Dustin (303dca) — 9/24/2013 @ 9:15 pm

    The crafty devils! Spine implants aren’t covered under Obamacare.

    Steve57 (b0c53e)

  158. The crafty devils! Spine implants aren’t covered under Obamacare.

    Bingo!

    Angelo (9a2373)

  159. As I sit in front of a massive stone fireplace with my wife watching the snow fall on the lake and pondering my 61st birthday tomorrow, I’m also reminiscing about my country and how much has changed. So very much not for the better. I want to be optimistic, but it’s a tough slog in that direction.

    @109 Comment by Colonel Haiku (ed0339) — 9/24/2013 @ 11:29 am

    C’mon now Colonel, it isn’t all bad news.

    * First, people are genuinely upset about Obamacare and that is just going to get worse.
    * Second, people are furious about how congressional staffers are above the law.
    * Third, people like Tlaloc and Dhar are amongst the ranks of liberal/Democrats, they are not ours.
    * Fourth, we just found a leader that not a single regular commenter here objects. That has never happened before on this blog to my knowledge (and as you know, we can be quite brutal to each other at times).

    Happy B-day Colonel, the Country still has fight in her, and just maybe we are witnessing the new dawn — courtesy of Texas (don’t get cocky).

    Pons Asinorum (8ce71a)

  160. The crafty devils! Spine implants aren’t covered under Obamacare.

    Comment by Steve57 (b0c53e) — 9/24/2013 @ 9:17 pm

    LOL

    Dustin (303dca)

  161. Oy! Now I’m feeling embarrassed. My birthday isn’t until the 3rd week of October; I was just mentioning that, like Colonel Haiku, I am also a Libra.
    Thank you for the best wishes, everyone.

    Icy (a7fd16)

  162. H.B.D. Colonel and Icy.

    mg (31009b)

  163. Oh, almost forgot — Happy B-day Icy (close enough).

    Pons Asinorum (8ce71a)

  164. Republicans don’t have the votes do, they? Correct me if I’m wrong, but there are more Democrats in Senate than Republicans. So Republicans can’t get their bill passed. It’s not McConnell’s fault the GOP lost the election. So why do you somehow think its his fault the Democrats are voting against Boehner’s defund bill?

    Mitch (da61bf)

  165. Nobody is saying that, Mitch.

    Icy (a2f7ca)

  166. Mitch just razed an entire army of strawpeople.

    JD (a1193c)

  167. Mitch just razed an entire army of strawpeople.

    Can genocide be far behind?

    I’m sure Mitch was equally miffed that Wendy Davis in Texas filibustered a bill restricting abortion practices even though the bill was going to eventually pass anyway. Symbolic political gestures are only honorable if dims do it.

    [ponders where to assign blame]

    Amalgamated Cliff Divers, Local 157 (f7d5ba)

  168. 165. Prom Queen cannot veto what never reaches her desk.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  169. Thanks for the birthday wishes all, just hoping we an drive out this morning. Hey, nk… speaking of elk, we saw a big bull and his harem this morning.

    Colonel Haiku (ed0339)

  170. I like Mitch’s unschooled assumption that Republicans all always vote only one way and Democrats all always vote the opposite way in lockstep. That’s so OFA of him. So MSNBC of him. And so untrue about most legislation throughout all of American history. I hate what the school systems have done to tamp down people’s thinking and reasoning skills.

    elissa (491145)

  171. Cruz was still going strong at 5 AM. His speech became longer than that of Ron Paul at the nomination of John Brennan as CIA director in March at about 3:33 am when it passed the 12 hours and 52 minute mark. He cannot stop a vote with this speech, since it is already agreed to. The Senate will pass the continuing resolution on Sept 30, leaving the House with very little time.

    Sammy Finkelman (44bd3a)

  172. 162, Icy, my B-Day is the 1st full week of October. Then, I have ladies with 1 B-Day on the 16th and 2 ladies with their b-day on the 31st! We all would like to see Obamacare gone if not as crippled as Obama is trying to cripple the country.

    PCD (7a7072)

  173. Dustin,

    You’re blatantly lying about my positions—I didn’t support Senator Snowe. What on earth are you talking about ?
    I’ve never even been to Maine.
    I don’t have any left wing positions or sympathies to speak of, despite your inference that I do. If I do, please step up and NAME them.

    I happen to have been a champion of Ted Cruz from the time that he was fighting David Dewhurst for the GOP nomination. I first heard Cruz being interviewed on Mark Levin’s radio show sometime in 2011.

    Also, I said the GOP nomination process was two years ago. Please don’t conflate the GOP nominating process with the general election for the sake of trying to score a cheesy point against me.

    Yesterday, you were droning on and on about Mitt Romney. You said you can NOW wish Mitt Romney and his family well, since he’s not in office.
    Here’s what you wrote yesterday;
    That’s a beautiful addition to the Romney family. I’m glad I can simply wish Mitt and his the best now that I know he isn’t in office and my disagreement with him politically is irrelevant. It can’t be easy being the family of the GOP nominee these days.

    Comment by Dustin (303dca) — 9/24/2013 @ 10:25 am

    Are you kidding ? You can NOW wish him well since he’s not in office ?
    That is sanctimony of the first degree.
    By the flip side of that coin, do you not wish elected Democrats well, simply because they do not share your political views ?
    If so, that’s really incivil.

    People such as yourself do not accept that the GOP nominee reflects the will of Republicans and conservatives across our diverse country—not just Texas, Wyoming, and Utah.
    The time for an intramural battle is during the nominating process—not after.
    After we select a nominee, we all need to follow Reagan’s wisdom and band together under one big tent and VOTE for the GOP nominee whether he is your first choice or not, so that we can stop a left wing Democrat from being elected and therefore inflicting more damage to our country.
    You have a history of navel-gazing existentialist streams of consciousness about how you’re not sure you can bring yourself to vote for the GOP nominee this time or next time, blah, blah, blah.

    This banging on Mitt Romney by some of you pure conservatives a whole year after the general election is not productive, and neither is mischaracterizing other commenters’ positions.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  174. You’re blatantly lying about my positions—I didn’t support Senator Snowe. What on earth are you talking about ?

    My apologies. I’ll take your word for it that you don’t support her. I wasn’t lying, though. We definitely had a conversation where we discussed Christie and Snowe. If you reject Senator Snowe, then you accept the idea of an ideological filter for repubicans, so freaking out about my doing so with Romney is inconsistent.

    You spend so little time explaining your reasoning, and so much of your time attacking people, that I do not really understand your point of view. At any rate, please explain why you reject Senator Snowe, if you are being honest about that, and then explain how this view is compatible with your fury that I reject RINOs.

    This banging on Mitt Romney by some of you pure conservatives a whole year after the general election is not productive, and neither is mischaracterizing other commenters’ positions.

    Comment by Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 9/25/2013

    I just explained how my view is not about purity and how it is ridiculous to say that to reject a progressive is a call for conservative purity. Romney is not a 90% conservative who only the super picky conservatives can’t accept.

    It’s right here in this thread. So the only one dishonestly characterizing someone’s views is you, E Stone.

    After we select a nominee, we all need to follow Reagan’s wisdom and band together under one big tent and VOTE for the GOP nominee whether he is your first choice or not, so that we can stop a left wing Democrat from being elected and therefore inflicting more damage to our country.

    Obama won, dude. Twice. The only thing Romney actually stopped was a conservative GOP candidate.

    Dustin (303dca)

  175. And Romney explicitly said he wasn’t seeking a return to the wisdom of Reagan. It’s perverse in the extreme to cite Reagan for the purposes of demanding purity (e stone purity, which is a GOP pure of critics of Romney). Don’t worry, you got your wish. I held my tongue about Romney from the time he was nominated to the time he lost, but I’m no longer a loyal partisan because even after Romney failed his defenders get so angry when anyone wants lessons learned from this failure.

    You’re the one calling for purity, only it’s a sickening one. It’s a purity of speech, for the senseless purpose of partisanship. You and those like you are to blame for this party becoming so useless ideologically.

    Anyway, I look forward to you explaining why you do not support Olympia Snowe, and then distinguishing that from my rejection of Mitt Romney or John Mccain.

    Dustin (303dca)

  176. 176. “You’re the one calling for purity, only it’s a sickening one. It’s a purity of speech, for the senseless purpose of partisanship.”

    Hey, that is a damn good turn. Kudos.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  177. Thanks, man! I ate breakfast today.

    Dustin (303dca)

  178. 172. “leaving the House with very little time.”

    The Lamestream wishcasting meme. “Oh, poor, enfeebled GOP, you are excused when you are obliged to cave by the inconsiderate Cruz.”

    I think Boehner is looking at getting what he aimed for, delay, and a feather in his cap.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  179. Dustin,

    I have to hand it to you, you really do throw the kitchen sink, hoping something sticks.
    Fortunately, I have some Palmolive to degrease the pots and pans that you keep banging.

    You’re debating like an MSNBC host, accusing me of supporting candidates I don’t support, inferring that I’m some sort of liberal, and twisting simple statements to make them sound different than the way I typed them right in front of your nose for you to simply cut & paste.

    I never said Romney was channelling Reagan—I said WE have to channel Reagan by all banding together under one big tent to vote for the GOP nominee once the nomination process is over.
    And then you responded by implying that Romney is not someone a conservative can support.

    There is nobody on this website except for you who thinks I am anywhere near Olympia Snowe on the political spectrum.

    I’ve never been to Maine, and I certainly don’t live in Maine—therefore I am not even eligible to vote for Olympia Snowe—besides, didn’t she retire ?
    The people of Maine are free to choose their own Senators, just like the people in Texas are.
    We must respect the electoral process if we are to maintain a civil society.
    (It is still sad to see that you admit you cannot wish Mitt Romney well, unless he is out of office.)

    Now that Snowe retired, she has been replaced by a far left whacko (who ran as an “Independent”) named Angus King.
    But let me ask you this, if you lived in Maine, and you had a choice between Olympia Snowe or a left wing Democrat, would you not vote for Snowe ? Of course you would vote for Snowe over the Democrat ! It’s called ‘voting for the best available choice.’

    Good Allah, man, Good Allah.

    As Churchill said, “Democracy is the worst form of government—except for all the others.”
    Our American republican form of democracy is certainly flawed, but it is the best system to my knowledge.
    Sometimes we end up with people who aren’t our first choice as the nominee for President, but in life, we don’t always get our ‘first choice.’ We therefore must go with the best available choice…and we do that everyday in life, whether in buying a house, taking a job, buying a car, going on a date, buying ice cream, or buying a pair of shoes—often times our first choice is not available, so we opt for the next best available choice. C’est la vie.

    In the 2012 Presidential election, Mitt Romney was easily the best available choice.
    The only people who disagree with that statement are lefties.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  180. “The only thing Romney actually stopped was a conservative GOP candidate.”

    Dustin – You have become incredibly incoherent.

    You’re like John Kerry, you were against Romney before you were for him (you even wrote a post!!!!), before you were against him.

    You blamed Romney supporters for whatever you believe happened in 2012 because somehow you don’t believe there is any honest way based upon your comments to make an honest assessment that among the group of candidates running or rumored to be running that Romney had the best chance of beating Obama, which after all was the goal. Instead with your mind reading skills you intuit bad motives in that any supporter of Romney had to know that nominating him would fracture the GOP (which you claim you don’t even support so who cares) rather than somehow supporting one of the crapweasel loser candidates with no chance of winning which with EPWJ predictive power would not somehow have fractured the GOP.

    Somehow you do not describe which specific Romney policies result in the fracturing you describe, but you continue to tell falsehoods about his record, such as the gun banning tale, as you have done all along.

    Yet you said you did not want to relitigate the primaries. You can’t make up you mind, can you? So you devote time to bashing establishment leadership in the Senate. Can you provide some Venn Diagrams which show the overlap between McConnell and Graham supporters and Romney supporters please or is that something different because they are single state races?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  181. “We definitely had a conversation where we discussed Christie and Snowe.”

    Dustin – I argued with Steve57 over Snowe and Collins. His view was that the election of Lepage as governor proved a conservative could get elected in Maine and that meant we should dump people like Snowe and Collins because their conservative ratings were below 50%. I argued that one person was not necessarily a trend and unless conservatives were lined up ready to fill the shoes Snowe and Collins, suggesting that they leave merely based on a conservative rating below 50% is too facile a way of looking at the situation. Those ratings vary significantly from year to year based on the individual votes that are scored. Without replacements lined up to run my contention was the the best way to look at is do the lobster hoochies vote with republicans more often than the most conservative democrat. If they do, why would you get rid of them if favor of somebody potentially more liberal?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  182. Comment by elissa (622f9f) — 9/24/2013 @ 3:35 pm

    (To Dustin) [Rick Perry] simply did not present as a credible presidential candidate.

    That was true, actually also, of Mitt Romney.

    Not quite as blatant, but by Election Day, it came through.

    Sammy Finkelman (44bd3a)

  183. His view was that the election of Lepage as governor proved a conservative could get elected in Maine and that meant we should dump people like Snowe and Collins because their conservative ratings were below 50%.

    How exactly did I say we should or even could “dump” people like Snowe and Collins? Did I suggest a purge?

    Inquiring minds want to know. Do tell me what my view was, daley.

    Steve57 (b0c53e)

  184. “That was true, actually also, of Mitt Romney.”

    Sammy – Keep telling yourself that. About 61 million people thought he was a credible candidate.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  185. “Do tell me what my view was, daley.”

    Steve57 – Was there something unclear about my comment?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  186. Steve57 – Is Angus King a conservative?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  187. Sammy,

    Mitt Romney may not be the politician with the slickest instincts for electioneering, or backslapping, or winking at the audience, but I don’t see how you can say a man of his impressive resume wasn’t a credible presidential candidate.
    You don’t seriously think he’s less credible than Obama, do you ?

    When I think of a political candidate who lacks credibility, I think of Terry McAulliffe currently running for Governor of VA.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  188. Elephant Stone, instead of all the personal attacks, why not answer my question? Are you unable to do so without exposing that I’m correct? If you do not support Republicans being as liberal as Snowe, then why not, and how do you distinguish this (which I assume is an ideological test) from my own ideological test?

    Oh but wait, maybe the lady doth protest too much:

    therefore I am not even eligible to vote for Olympia Snowe—besides, didn’t she retire ?
    The people of Maine are free to choose their own Senators, just like the people in Texas are.
    We must respect the electoral process if we are to maintain a civil society.

    So Elephant Stone, you do respect her being a Republican Senator? I personally think supporting very liberal republican senators shows we do not take our own principles seriously enough.

    It’s fine if you do support very liberal politicians. I disagree, that’s all! I think Snowe and Romney should be democrats.

    You’re like John Kerry, you were against Romney before you were for him (you even wrote a post!!!!), before you were against him.

    Daleyrocks, you always get so upset when Romney is criticized, but I already explained this to you and it’s not personal. I supported the most conservative candidate who could win, consistently, throughout 2012. I warned you that Romney was not only unelectable, but a bridge burner for some conservatives. Then he was nominated and I said he’s better than Obama and Obama has got to go. Then Obama won anyway, even though Romney did do his best with the hand he had (which included Romneycare and thus precluded an effective campaign) and I went back to saying that we need to nominate a more conservative candidate.

    Dustin (303dca)

  189. Don’t change the subject, daley. You were telling Dustin my position. You said it was to “dump” people like Snowe and Collins.

    I’m fascinated that was my position. Explain to me how I said it was even possible to “dump” Snowe and Collns.

    Steve57 (b0c53e)

  190. (you even wrote a post!!!!),

    My point wasn’t to brag. It was to prove that E Stone’s claim I had a long record of not supporting the GOP candidate was untrue. E Stone has failed to reply to this or apologize for his mistake, which is no surprise as I don’t think he’s here for a discussion. I’ve supported every GOP nominee since I was of voting age.

    Romney’s failure is just one thing that has caused me to rethink this mistaken loyalty. McConnell’s actions as described in this post further bolster my view. Nearly every day I see contempt from loyal partisans against conservatives. E Stone keeps describing himself as a concerned conservative, but I find he never actually makes the case beyond demanding purity of loyalty. You are a well spoken conservative and I do not question your sincerity, but you are always very upset when a mere politician like Romney gets his record thrown in his face. I wish the guy well in his personal life, but his record was very poor by my measure, so I can not support those like that getting power. It’s not personal! There are hundreds of Republicans like him waiting to run in 2016. Peter King, Chris Christie, Marco Rubio. If the GOP seeks relevance it has to learn from 2012.

    Dustin (303dca)

  191. Steve57, I don’t wish to have another one of these blowout flamewars with Daleyrocks. Everyone here knows our disagreement and I doubt anyone, including myself and Daley, actually need to be reminded.

    But I do not understand E Stone’s respect for Senator Snowe in light of his outrage that I said I recalled him having this view. I further do not understand his saying he doesn’t support her (which suggests an ideological limit on how left a Republican can go) against his categorical rejection of my ideological limit on a GOP politician I can support.

    I’d like to have a discussion with E Stone, and I hope I am mistaken to think he’s showing bad faith while projecting his dishonesty onto me, but either way, I hope we can keep things fun and interesting instead of angry and angry and angry.

    Dustin (303dca)

  192. And Steve, you probably have a point about the practicality of shutting down liberal Republicans. What can we actually do about a Republican Mayor Bloomberg or a Republican candidate Scozzafava?

    They are really democrats taking advantage of the GOP for election law reasons (in my opinion).

    I see no easy solutions, but I do not support them.

    Dustin (303dca)

  193. daleyrocks,

    This angry notion of Dustin’s that Mitt Romney somehow stopped a conservative from winning the GOP nomination is so wrapped up in puritanism. I almost expect Miles Standish to jump out from behind a tree with pitchfork in hand, and exclaim, “Hark, who goes there !? Declare thine self !”

    Romney didn’t “stop” any other GOP candidate from winning the nomination—the GOP primary voters did ! It is always left up to the voters, for better or for worse.
    If GOP primary voters across the country wanted a “more conservative” nominee, they had their opportunity to nominate one…Newt, Santorum, Bachmann, et al.
    Apparently, Mitt Romney was acceptably conservative to enough GOP voters during the primary season.
    My Allah, I remember toward the end of the 2008 nominating process when panicked arch-conservatives such as Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh jumped behind Romney at the last moment as an attempt to derail the McCain nomination.
    Nobody was characterizing him as “Mitt Snowe” or “Mitt Collins” back then.

    It is so baffling to me that there’s a percentage of people among the conservative base who, absent their first choice, then go for the best available option to them during their everyday lives….whether a house, a job, a car, a wife, a box of cereal, a pair of gym shoes, or what movie to see at the Cineplex on Saturday night…but when it comes to a Presidential election, they can’t bring themselves to rally behind the best available choice.

    It is almost as if some conservatives believe they have a Constitutional right of “nullification” over a Presidential election, if their first choice nominee does not win. There are consequences of a Presidential election. Therefore, we must vote for the best available choice on the ballot.

    Good Allah !

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  194. “I’m fascinated that was my position.”

    Steve57 – Are you claiming it was not your position? Is your memory that bad?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  195. Dustin,

    You’ve been proven to at best “misrepresent” my positions. At worst, you’ve lied about my positions. And you continue with these bizarre passive-aggressive attacks against me that I “claim” to be a conservative, and so on. Or that you suppose you can “take my word” that I’m not some sycophant of Olympia Snowe.

    That’s a little weird, man.

    Again, you’re the only one on this website who suspects I’m not acceptably conservative.

    This is not rocket science.
    In election politics, we choose the best available choice on the ballot. That does not mean that voting for that person is some sort of declaration of love for that candidate.

    What is a conservative to do in Maine, given the choice between an Olympia Snowe, or a left wing Democrat ?
    Well, they vote for the better available choice between the two…and that is Snowe.
    But why are you turning that into some sort of twisted characterization that if a Maine conservative votes for Snowe, it means they are a “liberal” Republican ?
    They are merely voting for the better available choice. Dude. Seriously. Get a grip.
    In order to win a Presidential election, we must bring in as many people under our tent as possible. Reagan did it.

    On the one hand, you champion how you wrote a post supporting Romney.
    But then only yesterday, with the announcement of Romney’s new grandchild, you wrote that you can “now” wish Romney well since he’s not in office.
    What kind of sentiment is that ? That’s rather incivil, don’t you think ?

    As daleyrocks points out, it sounds like you’re channeling John Kerry, with the “I was for Romney before I was against wishing him well !”
    Or something.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  196. “Steve57, I don’t wish to have another one of these blowout flamewars with Daleyrocks.”

    Dustin – You could easily prevent it by avoiding personally insulting comments, deliberately attributing bad motives to others because your thinking is so blinkered, and stop furthering the spread of falsehoods.

    I have no interest in another flamewar, but you need decaf or some meds.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  197. DECAF? DECAF IS AN ABOMINATION.

    SPQR (1ec81f)

  198. Dustin wrote,

    “My point wasn’t to brag. It was to prove that E Stone’s claim I had a long record of not supporting the GOP candidate was untrue. E Stone has failed to reply to this or apologize for his mistake, which is no surprise as I don’t think he’s here for a discussion. I’ve supported every GOP nominee since I was of voting age.”
    ——————–

    Dustin, you just continue to misrepresent what I write. Perhaps you’re not a careful reader ? Or do you simply not know how to cut & paste ?
    I never, ever claimed you have a long record of NOT supporting the GOP candidate IN THE PAST.

    This is what I actually wrote,
    “You have a history of navel-gazing existentialist streams of consciousness about how you’re not sure you can bring yourself to vote for the GOP nominee this time or next time, blah, blah, blah.”

    Dustin, how can you deny that ? You’ve mentioned many times since Romney’s defeat that you’re fed up with the GOP and you don’t think THAT MOVING FORWARD you can support the next candidate that Karl Rove and his ilk shove down your throat. Do you really deny that ?
    Plus, as I’ve pointed out several times already, only as recently as yesterday you admitted you can finally wish Romney well since he’s not in office.
    Sorry, but that’s what you wrote, Dustin.

    Incidentally, don’t you think that’s a bizarre sentiment to hold for the candidate you voted for only a year ago ?

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  199. Dustin,

    Additionally, why do you continue to characterize Mayor Bloomberg as a “Republican” ?

    I explained to you several weeks ago that he is a lifelong Democrat who only ran as a “Republican” in the Mayor’s race in order to avoid an expensive and feisty Democrat primary battle with a few bare-knuckles brawling Democrats.

    Mayor Bloomberg may have run in the Republican primary for Mayor, but he does not identify as one. Therefore, it is a little disingenous to hold him up as an example of a Republican who has disappointed.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  200. Burn the heretic! Burn the heretic!

    Sheesh ES, give it a rest.

    SPQR (1ec81f)

  201. You’ve been proven to at best “misrepresent” my positions. At worst, you’ve lied about my positions.

    ES, I could have written that myself.

    daley, my position was never that we “dump” Snowe and Collins. That would be a weird position to have, since it’s impossible to “dump” a sitting US Senator.

    My position was and is that anyone who votes against your party more than with it is not an asset. The GOP can and should run more conservative candidates. When the GOP settles for liberal candidates by rationalizing that they’re the most electable in a district, or a state, or nationwide they cause their own base to stay home.

    We know that’s why Romney lost. That is a fact.

    In addition to disillusioning the base with liberal candidates, the fact that the GOP promotes candidates who disagree with the party on a host of core issues convinces people that those aren’t really core issues.

    http://townhall.com/tipsheet/danieldoherty/2013/08/01/poll-54-percent-say-the-gop-should-be-more-conservative-n1653359

    Just over half, 54 percent, of Republican voters said the party leaders should move in a more conservative direction, while 40 percent said they should be more moderate.

    The GOP will never make up in Hispanics what they lose in conservatives who are convinced the Republican party doesn’t represent them.

    Steve57 (b0c53e)

  202. SPQR,

    Sorry, bro, but when someone misrepresents what I write, I have an obligation to set the record straight.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  203. DECAF? DECAF IS AN ABOMINATION.
    Comment by SPQR (1ec81f) — 9/25/2013 @ 12:08 pm

    — The cabal concurs!

    Icy (a2f7ca)

  204. It concerns me when people use the argument that red state conservatives aren’t sufficiently loyal if they don’t vote for McCain or Romney or when they threaten not to vote for a moderate Republican in the future. The red states voted for McCain and Romney, and many red state residents also supported them generously.

    Here’s a hypothetical: If Rick Santorum had been the GOP nominee and he lost, how many blue state commenters would be decrying the choice and swearing not to vote Republican until the GOP nominated someone different?

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  205. “It concerns me when people use the argument that red state conservatives aren’t sufficiently loyal if they don’t vote for McCain or Romney or when they threaten not to vote for a moderate Republican in the future. The red states voted for McCain and Romney, and many red state residents also supported them generously.”

    DRJ – It concerns me when people use the argument that blue state conservatives are not sufficiently conservative merely because they did not believe a candidate such as Rick Perry or Newt Gingrich could win the nomination and beat Barack Obama and chose to support somebody else they viewed having a better chance, causing the GOP to fracture.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  206. 205. It concerns me when people use the argument that red state conservatives aren’t sufficiently loyal if they don’t vote for McCain or Romney or when they threaten not to vote for a moderate Republican in the future…

    Comment by DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/25/2013 @ 1:25 pm

    It should concern you that the GOP got the leading proponent of and leading GOP ally of Ted Kennedy on amnesty as their nominee in 2008 and the father of Romneycare in 2012.

    I didn’t appreciate being called a racist back in 2007 when the GOP establishment was trying to force amnesty down the throats of their own base, over their screaming objections.

    Most vocally by former Reagan and Bush1 staffer and former Bush2 nominee Linda Chavez, but yes by John McCain himself.

    I held my nose and voted for him. And in many ways I’m glad he lost, because we’d still have much the same policies as Obama, but I’d be lectured about them being bipartisan.

    Romney I thought was better, but I still found it dismaying that the GOP was nominating a guy who was proud of his Massachusetts healthcare law and defending it while the vast majority of the GOP base and the majority of Americans wanted to dump Obamacare.

    The fact of the matter is a large chunk of the GOP base doesn’t believe Republican politicians represent them. And that they’re lying to their base. This goes back to Bush1 and his “read my lips, no new taxes” pledge.

    Then there’s this:

    John McCain’s former senior adviser Steve Schmidt says he has “deep regret” for helping to create a “freak show” wing of the Republican Party when he had a hand in bringing former McCain running mate Sarah Palin to the national stage.

    Schmidt said Monday on MSNBC’s “Hardball” that it’s time for the GOP to stand up to the “asininity” embodied by Palin and others.

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/steve-schmidt-republicans-97250.html#ixzz2fwOlRWux

    In addition to not representing the base, and lying to it, a lot of people in the GOP establishment openly despise it. Of course, that was briefly revealed back in 2007 when these same folks were calling their base “racists” for opposing the really stupid idea of amnesty. But now it’s open and sustained.

    The fact of the matter was Palin was far more popular with the base than McCain was. And the establishment hates her.

    I’m not going to say I’m never going to vote for a moderate Republican. But if this party gives me Chris Christie or Jeb Bush in 2016 I’m not voting for either of them. If I’m going to be told I’m stupid, racist extremist I’d rather be told that by a Democrat.

    Steve57 (b0c53e)

  207. When I say Palin was more popular than McCain, I’m noting the surge in the polls after he picked her as her running mate. That was the one thing he did to excite the base.

    Steve57 (b0c53e)

  208. I think a lot of red state conservatives fail to grasp the notion that the Presidential election is ultimately won in the purple states such as Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virgina, Florida, Colorado, Nevada, New Hampshire, et al.
    The presidential election is not won in Texas, Wyoming, Utah—in fact, the electoral votes have effectively already been “won” in those states from day one. Just as the electoral votes in New York, Illinois, and Massachusetts, and California have been won by the Democrat nominee from day one.

    A GOP primary is decided among conservatives and Republicans across the country—not just the northern suburbs of Dallas/Ft Worth.
    People can stomp their feet and throw tantrums all day long, but that is the way the game is played.

    The notion that conservatives in Maine shouldn’t vote for the GOP nominee (Olympia Snowe !!!!!! Wahhhhh ! Heretic !!! Burn that b*tch at the stake !!!! Wahhhhh !) for Senate simply because that nominee may not be as conservative as the GOP Senate nominee in say, Texas, or Wyoming, is just plain kooky Fruit Loops looney tunes.
    Conservatives in Maine were very lucky to get an Olympia Snowe for as long as they had her. Case in point, she’s just been replaced by left wing moonbat Angus King.

    The United States was long considered to be “The Great Experiment” because each of the states was a de facto laboratory for the type of laws (within the framework of Federalism, of course) and representation its citizens wished to abide by.
    1913 was a watershed year not only for the implementation for a federal income tax, but also because it abolished the US Senators being selected by state legislatures, thereby designating them to be elected by a popular vote within each state. That has been disastrous for those of us who favor limited government.

    Do blue state conservatives such as myself fantasize about a conservative rock star such as Ted Cruz becoming President ?
    Of course, but if Mitt Romney had defeated Barack Obama, that would have been wonderful, too.

    “Perfection” is a left wing utopian ideal. Let’s all keep that in mind.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  209. ES, do you think Snowe or Collins ever made a limited government argument? Or the GOP ever tried while Snowe and Collins were safe seats?

    I’ve discovered that a lot of people living in liberal land have never actually heard a conservative argument. Most notably college students. So before giving up on the limited government argument, the GOP should try it. For once.

    Steve57 (b0c53e)

  210. I think you have if backwards, ES, Snowe, like Cohen
    before her, go out of their way to further the Democrats agenda, ironically, as Chaffee found out, if they want your seat badly enough, there’s no amount of kowtowing that won’t prevent them from putting you on the their wall as a trophy,

    narciso (3fec35)

  211. ==So before giving up on the limited government argument, the GOP should try it. For once.==

    I’m in! Let’s do it, Steve57. Sounds great. I’m serious. Now, how do you propose to accomplish it in, say, 2016? And who is the standard bearer/media victim you’re designating? Oh and what are the key 5 or six talking points and proposals? We should start infiltrating the lefty blogs and twitter immediately. Let’s get this show in the road.

    elissa (491145)

  212. Great, elissa. I’d start with explaining why “children” get to stay on their parents’ policies until they’re 26.

    Because universities are cancelling student health care policies, and they have no hope in hell of getting a job once they graduate that offers health insurance.

    Or do you prefer McCain’s, “We lost, we’ll just have to live with it” message?

    Steve57 (b0c53e)

  213. A squishy Senator such as Snowe or Collins who votes with the Republicans in the US Senate 55% of the time is better than a DEMOCRAT Senator who only votes with the Republicans in the Senate 5% of the time.

    It is just basic math. That’s all.

    If a conservative could win in those states, they would win in those states. But for some reason, they never even make it out of the GOP primary in those blue states.

    And here’s another thing to keep in mind. One normally has to be a sitting elected official in order to make the jump to “US Senator.”
    Right ?

    Maybe someone like a Mitt Romney who had an insanely impressive private sector resume can make the jump to Governor, without using a state legislative seat as a springboard. But generally, one is at least in the state legislature before jumping to US Senator. Generally speaking.
    Well, that is a difficult accomplishment in a blue, blue state—finding a sufficiently conservative state legislator to run for US Senate. (Or a sitting US Congressman willing to forfeit their seat in order to run for US Senate.)

    Arnold got elected Governor here in CA in the recall race of 2003. He was elected because moonbat Democrat Gray Davis was running the state into the ground with liabilities. In the fall of 2005, Arnold put a bunch of ballot measures out there to cut back on spending and so forth—just as he was elected to do.
    All of the measures got killed. And so Arnold basically said, “Ok, the voters of CA don’t want more limited government.”
    That’s just how CA is. Too many government employees, too many hippies, too many entertainment industry liberals, too many freeloaders, and that adds up to a governing majority of the electorate.

    I mean, you guys don’t really think that the flip side of the coin is true—right ?
    Such as the fact that liberalism could prosper in red states such as Texas, Wyoming, or Utah, if it were only given a chance ?!
    You don’t think left wing moonbat Wendy Davis is going to win the Governor’s race in Texas, do you ?
    I would love nothing more than to see a Darrell Issa become Governor of CA (he was planning to run in ’03 until Arnold pushed him aside, effectively) or a Tom McClintock become US Senator from CA, or have a Ted Cruz as President.

    In certain states, we have to get what we can get.
    In a state such as Maine, that was Snowe and Collins. That doesn’t mean I think they’re fantastic Senators—I don’t. They were my least favorite Republican Senators.
    But it is better than having actual Democrat Senators representing those states.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  214. You are right, elissa. Complaining is easy. Doing something to make things better is hard, thankless, and scary. After all, you might get rejected.

    But complaining is safe.

    I do what I can with the students. Shaking my head over Syria with students, who seem just as confused (war pre and post GWB). I’m going to be saying how sorry I am that Obamacare costs so much. That I wish that there was something that could be done about it. That kind of thing. A few will start telling me what ought to be done. That’s my goal.

    It’s better than sitting in my bunker on top of a pile of ammo and water bottles, applauding myself for being Cassandra-right. And nk knows what happened to her.

    Thank you for the kind words, by the way.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  215. Oh, and Steve? Call undergraduates “children” and you will get their irritated attention. Despite all the “nannyism” going around, young men and women of that age hate being dependent on Mom and Dad. They do it, but they don’t like it.

    It’s a chink in the armor of the Left. We need to use it.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  216. And who is the standard bearer/media victim you’re designating?

    The standard bearer will be a victim of the MFM no matter where they land on the political spectrum.

    JD (5c1832)

  217. How about explaining to SF consumers why they no longer get offered a meal deal at Subway? Because of teh minimum wage.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/business/san-francisco-subway-customers-lose-5-footlong-deal-596405

    San Francisco Subway customers lose $5 footlong deal

    Subway customers in San Francisco may be disappointed when they get to the counter and find out that the everyday selection of $5 footlong sandwiches has been scrapped, reportedly in response to a recent increase in the minimum wage. A story in local media outlet SF Weekly blamed the ban on $5 footlongs in local stores to the higher cost of doing business.

    According to workers interviewed by SF Weekly, it’s because of the local $10.24-per-hour minimum wage.

    Congrats, peeps! Your vote for a “living wage” makes your city more and more unlivable.

    Not that I expect the party that wanted to call Obama a nice guy who was just in over his head because their focus groups told them telling voters the truth, that they had screwed themselves by voting for Obama, to ever go with the truth.

    Me? I think telling voters the truth might actually work.

    Steve57 (b0c53e)

  218. 216. Oh, and Steve? Call undergraduates “children” and you will get their irritated attention. Despite all the “nannyism” going around, young men and women of that age hate being dependent on Mom and Dad. They do it, but they don’t like it.

    It’s a chink in the armor of the Left. We need to use it.

    Comment by Simon Jester (c8876d) — 9/25/2013 @ 6:31 pm

    Yes it is a chink in the armor of the left. And now we’re both racists for using the term.

    Steve57 (b0c53e)

  219. Obamacare was secured through electoral fraud, phony indictment, fraud and lies, and the Louisiana and Nebraska purchases, the only way it could be put forth,

    narciso (3fec35)

  220. JD, you make a good point about whomever the GOP throws out there, ultimately becoming the target of the MSM.

    McCain mistakenly thought that the love and friendship he shared with journalists off the record throughout the years might somehow transfer into treating him fairly in the 2008 election.

    He was WRONG. All those buddy journalists he thought were his buddies ended up trashing him.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  221. By the way, I love how NBC says Subway stopped offering the meal deal “reportedly” because of the hike in the minimum wage. Attributing that report to a media outlet.

    Actually, Subway stated in a press release that they could no longer offer the meal deal in SF because of the minimum wage hike. There was nothing “reportedly” about it.

    Steve57 (b0c53e)

  222. applauding myself for being Cassandra-right. And nk knows what happened to her.

    I never understood that part. Apollo had already given her the gift of prophecy and she knew what he would do if she didn’t let him have a bite and what would eventually happen to her city and to her. Women.

    the traditionalist nk (dbc370)

  223. What did they think was going to happen, scratch that, they never work it out that far.

    narciso (3fec35)

  224. ==Here’s a hypothetical: If Rick Santorum had been the GOP nominee and he lost, how many blue state commenters would be decrying the choice and swearing not to vote Republican until the GOP nominated someone different?==

    DRJ, I assume that if Santorum was the nominee, then in your hypothetical he got there because he was the ultimate winner of the states’ Republican primaries. I would vote for him. If he lost the general I would immediately start to look at who in the ranks might merit my support for the next election in 4 years. And whoever won the R. primary in four years (whether or not it was my guy or gal) would get my vote in the general– no contest. The idea of not voting at all in a presidential election, or voting for a Democrat/Socialist/Communist, or for spite voting a hopeless not organized third party as a place holder, is so foreign to my education, my personal history and my political sensibilities that I admit I have trouble even comprehending those people who claim they’re firmly on the right but are willing to throw away a vote or knowingly elect our leftist opponents and almost brag about it.

    elissa (491145)

  225. I’m not big on BuzzFeed, but here’s a piece on the miracles produced by rent control. Although the morons at Buzzfeed don’t realize.

    Did I mention I’m not big on BuzzFeed? That’s the reason.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/benrosen/6-castles-that-cost-less-than-an-apartment-in-nyc

    6 Castles That Cost Less Than An Apartment In NYC

    …2. PRICE: $2,325,956

    Chateau Blavou is a 10-bedroom, 8-bathroom castle set in a peaceful 27-acre section in Normandy. This property comes complete with a vaulted cellar, a dining room that seats 60+ guests, a cellar/bar area with access to the garden, a wine cellar, food preparation room, two greenhouses, a caretaker’s house, a guest house, and a function room that seats 210 people.

    PRICE: $2,550,000

    The ad from Craigslist says that this 4-bed townhouse in Williamsburg Brooklyn has the “potential” for a backyard.

    Steve57 (b0c53e)

  226. 225. …The idea of not voting at all in a presidential election, or voting for a Democrat/Socialist/Communist, or for spite voting a hopeless not organized third party as a place holder, is so foreign to my education, my personal history and my political sensibilities that I admit I have trouble even comprehending those people who claim they’re firmly on the right but are willing to throw away a vote or knowingly elect our leftist opponents and almost brag about it.

    Comment by elissa (491145) — 9/25/2013 @ 6:46 pm

    What particularly do you find so attractive about politicians who promise to keep the train on the same track to the inevitable wreck, but are willing to slow it down a tad?

    Steve57 (b0c53e)

  227. Hey, steve. You know that Asians have limited entrance into UC Berkeley, just because they are Asian. Right?

    http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/12/19/fears-of-an-asian-quota-in-the-ivy-league

    And it is for the same reason for the old “Jewish Quota” in the 1920s.

    I adore telling students about that, when they start talking about racism. Because keeping Asians out of Berkeley because of their race is not racism.

    And the one thing that motivates young people is a dislike of hypocrisy…when it hits them where they live, so to speak.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  228. Didn’t matter who the “R” candidate was, the re-election of Armslength Obumbler* was guaranteed. One day, there will be a thorough investigation and the full truth will be known.

    But – by all means – keep pushing that POE thing…

    Colonel Haiku (d55c7c)

  229. Steve57–please don’t use tactics on your friends that you quite appropriately called out and decried when some of our trolls were doing something similar last night. Perhaps you noticed I was responding to DRJ’s specific hypothetical. Voting for someone because voting is a duty and privilege of citizenship and because they are the best available of the lot, is not the same as finding them “attractive” or indicative that one is unaware of certain faults or even possible hypocrisy in their character. But somebody’s going to win every election. I like to have a small say in who that is.

    elissa (491145)

  230. How about explaining to SF consumers why they no longer get offered a meal deal at Subway? Because of teh minimum wage.

    By the standards of the left, that’s merely a pittance, a minor inconvenience that affects just one city in America. Moreover, since the law of unintended consequences springs forth from good intentions, we should embrace it with a big heart. Besides, the lefty loons in places like Frisco are pikers compared with their counterparts in Europe, who affect not just a few cities but an entire nation.

    ca.news.yahoo.com, Reuters, September 25, 2013: This week a Paris court of appeal ordered the cosmetics chain Sephora to close its flagship store on the avenue at 9 p.m., rather than staying open until midnight during the week and until 1 a.m. on Fridays and Saturdays. It was the latest ruling over store-closing hours that has already forced several other big name retailers in Paris…to close early, including Apple, France’s Monoprix and the Japanese clothing retailer Uniqlo. Two other stores on the Champs Elysées, Abercrombie and Fitch and perfumer Marionnaud, are also facing legal action.

    France has a raft of regulations governing shopping, and its labor unions ensure that they are strictly enforced. As well as strict limits on opening and closing hours, the rules only allow sales during certain periods of the year, price promotions are circumscribed, loss leaders are illegal, store sizes are limited and even the types of shops allowed to open up are regulated.

    For the most part, these rules just provoke a Gallic shrug in France itself. But at a time when the national economy remains stuck in a rut and unemployment continues to rise, this latest ruling on Sephora has struck a raw nerve. The case was brought by a consortium of labor unions, which has been zealous in its attempts to have the store-closing hour law enforced, arguing that it needs to protect workers from unscrupulous owners who force them to work antisocial hours. But that logic is patently untrue in this case.

    The cosmetics chain reckons it does about 20 percent of its business after 9 p.m., and the 50 sales staff who work the late shift do so voluntarily — and are paid an hourly rate that is 25 percent higher than the day shift. Many of them are students or part-time workers, and they have publicly expressed their indignation about being put out of work by labor unions.

    …France remains wedded to highly regimented forms of business that are hard to change, and which place protection of the status quo far ahead of the interests of consumers and the economy as a whole.

    Mark (58ea35)

  231. elissa, I do consider you a friend on this blog despite our past differences. But while voting may be a duty and a privilege of citizenship, I think that encompasses withholding my vote as well. Why should I pretend I’m for someone I’m not.

    John McCain is of course the prime example I have on mind today. I doubt he made you any prouder to be a conservative than he did me as he rebutted Cruz’s filibuster for the Democrats.

    I think where we differ is that I honestly don’t see how we’d be at a different place had he or Romney been elected. I’m sick and tired of being forced to choose between Democrats or Republicans who think they’ve been elected to reach across the aisle and work with Democrats.

    Steve57 (b0c53e)

  232. Mark, in Chicago, a pack of cigarettes is $11.00 at the Jewel, $12.00 at the convenience store. In Deerfield, just over the county line, it’s $7.00. I have a car and $280.00 at one time for four cartons (and I also get a haircut at my favorite barber up there) for a two-hour at most Saturday morning outing. Poorer people don’t. The pols who passed the Cook County and Chicago taxes know this. It’s cynicism in its purest essense.

    nk (dbc370)

  233. Gas is way cheaper in Lake county, too, nk. Also because of the taxes. I hope you filled up your tank on Saturday.

    elissa (491145)

  234. Didn’t matter who the “R” candidate was, the re-election of Armslength Obumbler* was guaranteed.

    Haiku, maybe that’s right. After all, Romney beat all the other options, and that has to count for something. But maybe someone who isn’t encumbered, ideologically, with positions that are not clearly different from Obama’s on some matters would have a much easier time making the case for what was so wrong with the American economy in November 2012. (I believe the main problem was that Obamacare stunted hiring).

    But no matter. One thing we know for sure now is that candidates like Mccain cause a lot of headaches for a significant number of conservatives. Putting them at the head of the party doesn’t help the party in the long run. There is a significant price to the party’s future prospects when a lot of people tune out or give up on the GOP.

    This, if all candidates were going to lose anyway, whether we nominated Romney or not, that doesn’t mean there was no difference to the party’s future.

    We have lessons to learn. Especially folks like McConnell or Boehner. I’m not sure that any real good comes of these chats online. To many folks easily devolve into personal attacks, and I often find myself tempted to reply in turn, which makes the entire thread not fun.

    E Stone’s very upset that I’ve criticized the notion of unity behind a GOP candidate I do not agree with on policy. He acts as though a discussion about this is some kind of evil and somehow of consequence in the real world, when all it really is is an attempt to have a pleasant discussion on a controversial issue. I’m not stupid… I know that internet activism isn’t really activism. I knocked on over ten thousand doors for Bush in 2004, driven people to the polls, and manned phone banks. I know what activism is.

    Anyway, it’s a little to ugly in this thread for my tastes, but I have found your comments to be witty and pleasant for quite a long time now, and I hope others can learn from that example.

    Dustin (303dca)

  235. *too

    !!!

    Dustin (303dca)

  236. Apologies in advance… I’m replying to several here.

    Dustin I really try to understand your ongoing frustration and disappointment with the Rick Perry deal. Surely in your deepest most thoughtful moments you must`see what a basket case his whole candidacy was start to finish. He simply did not present as a credible presidential candidate. Surely you must see why he did not prevail in the primaries. Yet you cannot seem to accept the results of the open primaries that were held in all 50 states. You cannot seem to accept the fact that it was real red blooded American voters in those 50 states who chose the 2012 GOP nominee–not a small group of nefarious lords on Mt. Olympus. I’m sorry but when you start talking about secession I cannot take much else you say remotely seriously. Do you really believe you’ve thought through how secession would work and how it would affect Texans? No. I don’t believe you have.

    Senator Rubio just said on the senate floor that Republicans may be talking, weighing, even arguing, about tactics–but he notes that no Republican in either chamber is suggesting or has ever suggested that Obamacare is anything but a terrible awful no good idea for America and Americans.

    Comment by elissa (622f9f) — 9/24/2013 @ 3:35 pm

    I completely missed this comment, Elissa! No, I really do not understand why Perry wasn’t a credible candidate and someone like Romney was a credible candidate. I agree he performed poorly on stage and made a number of gaffes, but so did all the other candidates. Perry has won a lot of big elections and is a pretty good politician and knows how to run a large government pretty well. I freely admit there is something about the GOP electorate I am well out of sync with, and I think that’s the case for most conservatives. Anyway, we simply have very difficult concepts of presidents and presidential nominees. And I concede your view is obviously more in touch with America. But I note that America hasn’t done a good job picking presidents, so maybe my view holds some merit after all.

    I think Texas could actually do much better on its own, if only a secession could be peaceful, which it wouldn’t be, and thus I do not support the idea at this time. When I discuss it I am hoping people either understand humor or understand how bad things in this country could get.

    Elissa, I appreciate your pleasant tone.

    A squishy Senator such as Snowe or Collins who votes with the Republicans in the US Senate 55% of the time is better than a DEMOCRAT Senator who only votes with the Republicans in the Senate 5% of the time.

    It is just basic math. That’s all.

    Thank you, E Stone, for explaining the circumstances where you support a Senator as far left as Snowe. Many reasonable people that I respect have taken this view. I disagree, firstly because the RINO doesn’t vote with the GOP on any controversial matter where we actually need the vote. They dilute the meaning and purpose of the party to the point where the GOP doesn’t appear to stand for anything.

    I explained to you several weeks ago that [Bloomberg] is a lifelong Democrat [he’s an independent] who only ran as a “Republican” in the Mayor’s race in order to avoid an expensive and feisty Democrat primary battle with a few bare-knuckles brawling Democrats.

    Exactly what I said, E Stone. Years ago. You have not contradicted any point I’ve made and I’m not clear why you’re pointing this out, but Bloomberg is an excellent example of a politician who wins a GOP nomination, but who I won’t support. Were Bloomberg the nominee in 2012 I bet I’d have voted for him, but if he or something like him is in 2016, I refuse.

    Dustin, you just continue to misrepresent what I write. Perhaps you’re not a careful reader ? Or do you simply not know how to cut & paste ?
    I never, ever claimed you have a long record of NOT supporting the GOP candidate IN THE PAST.

    This is what I actually wrote,
    “You have a history of navel-gazing existentialist streams of consciousness about how you’re not sure you can bring yourself to vote for the GOP nominee this time or next time, blah, blah, blah.”

    Dustin, how can you deny that ?

    You said I have a history of not supporting the current GOP nominee, but this has never occurred. Therefore it is untrue. I am discussing what has recently changed that has caused me to change going forward.

    In other words, you are misrepresenting my position. It’s not the only misrepresentation. The majority of your comments directed towards me are ridiculously emotional and don’t attempt to understand what I’m saying, and thus tend to get my position all wrong.

    You got all bent out of shape because I said:

    I recall you seemed to support Senator Snowe.

    When you said I was wrong I immediately apologized and asked you to clarify your view on this matter. I am not sure you even noticed because you started answering my comments simply to bash someone, and you never really got to the point of a good faith discussion (hint, the apology and request for clarification is what good faith looks like)

    But now you have now explained why you support Snowe and those like her. It’s even a good argument (though I disagree). So why were you mad in the first place? Well it’s clear you were mad at me because I am not expressing purity of loyalty. Let me sum it up, and sorry for the bold: I didn’t leave the GOP. The GOP left me.

    I have no interest in another flamewar, but you need decaf or some meds.

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/25/2013

    As usual, Daleyrocks, I do my best to be civil to you, but if I criticize Romney you go off the rails with the unfortunate insults. You don’t ever do that when you have a good argument (which you often do), but you reflexively go there when you don’t. Really, I genuinely like your comments and do my best to keep my discussions with you pleasant and fair, and you never seem to want to do the same. You are free to act that way, but it’s crummy.

    Dustin (303dca)

  237. Seeing the importance of procedure, the squishiest party member who nonetheless votes with the caucus for Speaker, Majority Leader, committee chairs and apointments, etc. is still worth something. I’m just now starting to see it that way, actually. Probably because I never looked at parliamentary procedure before, and because there never was a loon like Pelosi or a liar like Reid before.

    nk (dbc370)

  238. Seeing the importance of procedure, the squishiest party member who nonetheless votes with the caucus for Speaker, Majority Leader, committee chairs and apointments, etc. is still worth something.

    That’s true. The rules committee sets what comes up for a vote. The committees each mark up the bills the chairman wishes to have a chance. Reform is dead on arrival with democrat majorities. Court nominations are another aspect of this issue. Majorities matter a great deal.

    This is why I conceded that E Stones argument for supporting Senators like Snowe being republican has merit. It does have merit.

    But how does the GOP even get these needed majorities? In the short term, just take whoever you can get, and insist on partisanship in every general election from everyone. In the long term, it is very important that the GOP use its time in power to prove the worth of its views.

    The deficit kept going up when the GOP had all the power. The government encroached on our freedom. The economy soured, too. I know the democrats are worse, but when did the GOP actually act conservative?

    What if the GOP had balanced the budget every year? I refuse to accept they didn’t have enough money to run a government. The GOP would probably be in power today if they had.

    Dustin (303dca)

  239. I knocked on over ten thousand doors for Bush in 2004, driven people to the polls, and manned phone banks. I know what activism is.

    I didn’t knock on over 10k doors, but I did go to the hood and knock on doors as well as camp out at polling places for the Broden campaign, trying to unseat Eddie Bernice Johnson.

    I figure that should get me some sort of prize, but maybe the fact I’m still alive is my prize.

    Steve57 (b0c53e)

  240. I didn’t knock on over 10k doors, but I did go to the hood and knock on doors as well as camp out at polling places for the Broden campaign, trying to unseat Eddie Bernice Johnson.

    I figure that should get me some sort of prize, but maybe the fact I’m still alive is my prize.

    Comment by Steve57 (b0c53e) — 9/25/2013

    Well, you have my respect for getting out there and doing something to support your beliefs. I had a great time working elections, every single time I have.

    And it’s no joke that sometimes these efforts are a bit dangerous, but we have a lot to be thankful for when it comes to peaceful transitions of power and elections. Let’s hope it stays that way.

    Dustin (303dca)

  241. Nick Gillespie has written a very good and quite flattering article about the wacko bird caucus, its two leading (but very different) lights Rand and Ted, and the encouraging future of the Republican Party.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/09/25/ted-cruz-might-just-have-won-the-future-for-the-gop.html

    elissa (491145)

  242. “As usual, Daleyrocks, I do my best to be civil to you, but if I criticize Romney you go off the rails with the unfortunate insults. You don’t ever do that when you have a good argument (which you often do), but you reflexively go there when you don’t.”

    Dustin – Right there is your problem in a nutshell. I have a different opinion from you which you do not recognize as a legitimate argument, which is the same approach liberals use. Delegitimize the other side. That is exactly why I called you irrational. McCain won the 2008 Texas Republican presidential primary. Why not somebody more conservative? The problem with your argument is that it remains fueled by falsehoods about Romney and your anger over Perry’s loss, which you can’t let go. You’re going to be like the pathetic liberals who are still pissing and moaning about the 2000 election.

    What really has you steamed though is behavior of leadership in Washington which has nothing to do with Romney and everything to do with the behavior of voters on a state by state basis. The post was just an excuse to get your ration of Romney bashing in when the topic was old guard GOP senators.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)


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