Patterico's Pontifications

i don’t like mondays

happyfeet (c60db2) — 9/16/2013 @ 8:11 am

The shooter is reported to be a black male.

MikeK (dc6ffe) — 9/16/2013 @ 8:21 am

Two shooters.

Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 9/16/2013 @ 8:43 am

I wouldn’t be so ready to assume there are two shooters.

They always assume there’s two or more shooters, and there almost never is.

Sammy Finkelman (e0f80a) — 9/16/2013 @ 8:45 am

I would make the usual kvetch about gun free zones except he/they seems to have tagged a security guard and a cop. We’ll see I guess.

luagha (f82ad1) — 9/16/2013 @ 8:45 am

90% of initial reports will be at least 50% wrong.

JD (cbd374) — 9/16/2013 @ 8:48 am

Alexei Pushkov, Russian diplomat, tweets in Russian on the Naval Yard shooting:

(BuzzFeed’s translation) “A new shootout at Navy headquarters in Washington – a lone gunman and 7 corpses. Nobody’s even surprised anymore. A clear confirmation of American exceptionalism.” He followed up 10 minutes later with a tweet in English claiming that the notion of American exceptionalism “smells of political racism,”

This friends, the taunts and mockery, (as nonsensical as it may be) is what we should expect to keep getting from them after our government showed such fecklessness and weakness in recent events. Unfortunately, the attention and glorification for Putin in the press and blogs and political cartoons for Russia’s role in essentially pwning the president and John Kerry has wider and longer term implications for the United States.

elissa (bf3931) — 9/16/2013 @ 8:55 am

lemme guess: this occurred in a “gun free zone”, right?

redc1c4 (abd49e) — 9/16/2013 @ 8:56 am

Holy ship.. I don’t stare at the news for a few days and this happens. As of now, it is reported that at least a gun man is dead, with a possible second shooter still at large. Waiting to hear more… God bless the victims, the wounded, their families and all the first responders.

ignatius (83941f) — 9/16/2013 @ 8:58 am

Alexei Pushkov, Russian diplomat

can go suck a raw potato. Is potato in Russia?

nk (875f57) — 9/16/2013 @ 9:17 am

in Russia, potato sucks you.

redc1c4 (abd49e) — 9/16/2013 @ 9:25 am

Stalin is reading his report to the Party Congress when suddenly someone sneezes, interrupting him. “Who sneezed?”, Stalin asks. Nobody answers.

Stalin orders, “First row! On your feet!” He turns to his NKVD guards and says, “Shoot them!”

They are shot, and he asks again, “Who sneezed, Comrades?” Again, no answer. “Second row! On your feet! Shoot them!” They are shot too.

“Well, who sneezed?” At last a sobbing cry resounds in the Congress Hall, “It was me! Me!”

And Stalin says, “Bless you, Comrade!”

Is joke. There was no Party Congress. Stalin had already shot all.

nk (875f57) — 9/16/2013 @ 9:27 am

Potatoes were very big in Russia in the 19th century (and later) They grow in a short growing season without much attention.

I know the word katophel, as in borscht mit katophel.

(WIkipedia tells me it is kartoffel and it’s origin is not Slavic.)

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=potato

Sammy Finkelman (e0f80a) — 9/16/2013 @ 9:43 am

I question the timing. Funny this happens just a few days after a clear electoral rebuke to those two Colorado state reps, getting recalled for rushing through a gun ban.

There’s a William Goldman novel where it’s implied that the bad guys use drugs to gin up crazies for this sort of thing. By this point I’m ready to get my tinfoil hat on and become a believer.

(More seriously, ‘agitprop’ is short for ‘agitation propaganda’ and attempting to gin up crazies to attack your opponents and serve your ends is a classic political technique. It’s why muslim crazy attackers always have crazy histories – so they can be discounted even though they make valid trouble – and why the libs put out that George Bush assassination play and movie.)

luagha (5cbe06) — 9/16/2013 @ 10:00 am

Gallows humor can be hilarious… timing, it is everything. Could we please yuk it up after the families are told they’ve lost their loved ones, at least.

ignatius (83941f) — 9/16/2013 @ 10:05 am

Twenty-four hour rule should be in force. There’ll be plenty of time to summon donner & blitzen down on the tribe of whoever did this, once we’ve got a firm grasp on who-what-where-when and possibly why.

The Sanity Inspector (ca8d89) — 9/16/2013 @ 10:08 am

f**k the morgue dancers (those who don’t even wait to dance on the graves). Prayers for the victims. I hope justice is thoroughly meted out.

Ghost (476943) — 9/16/2013 @ 10:10 am

More workplace violence indubitably.

Well, the pause in crises was only going to last until next Sunday eve anyway–German election results.

At that point EU collapse becomes newsworthy once again.

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/16/2013 @ 10:23 am

I blame The Sequester!

askeptic (b8ab92) — 9/16/2013 @ 10:25 am

Sam the Sham’s hero is apparently already using his laser like focus to call for more gun control, because it w*rked so well to prevent this incident.

redc1c4 (abd49e) — 9/16/2013 @ 10:26 am

20. Comment by redc1c4 (abd49e) — 9/16/2013 @ 10:26 am

Sam the Sham’s hero is apparently already using his laser like focus to call for more gun control, because it w*rked so well to prevent this incident.

What are you talking about? Who is my hero?

Sammy Finkelman (e0f80a) — 9/16/2013 @ 10:28 am

lemme guess: this occurred in a “gun free zone”, right?

Comment by redc1c4 (abd49e) — 9/16/2013 @ 8:56 am

My thoughts exactly. The shooters like Hasan sure know this.

Patricia (be0117) — 9/16/2013 @ 10:30 am

They;re looking for a possible TWO more additional shooters, making a total of 3.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-washington-navy-yard-shootings-20130916,0,6137381.story

I wish they had more common sense.

It’s all right to say whethere or not there is somebody else is something unknown, but the probability is low.

In the meantime this prevents medical treatment – looking for people – and earlier, dealing with the lone gunman.

Sammy Finkelman (e0f80a) — 9/16/2013 @ 10:31 am

From the L.A. Times:

A federal law enforcement official monitoring the situation said the conflicting reports of more than one gunman are coming from a situation where a “second building” is being checked for reports of shots fired.

So, somebody thought that maybe that was the location from which they heard shots. Or heard something else altogether.

At least one person in law enforcement has common sense.

Sammy Finkelman (e0f80a) — 9/16/2013 @ 10:37 am

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/17/us/shooting-reported-at-washington-navy-yard.html

Other law enforcement officials said the reports of additional gunmen could be a result of the chaos during the episode.

No, mot chaos. Deliberate (and stupid) training. They’ll do it every time.

Sammy Finkelman (e0f80a) — 9/16/2013 @ 10:39 am

They have to know something about that gunman by now – they are just keeping it tightly held.

Sammy Finkelman (e0f80a) — 9/16/2013 @ 10:40 am

They originally thought the dead gunman was a retired CPO. That has been retracted after they found the man they thought was the dead gunman at home.

Oops.

No word on the live news here in DC area so far on who the shooters are.

Dan S (ea09ad) — 9/16/2013 @ 10:49 am

Has anyone else heard DC Metro Chief say at least 12 confirmed dead?!

ignatius (83941f) — 9/16/2013 @ 11:09 am

Still saying 2 others are being sought. WTF… Someone, remind me again why military are NOT allowed to carry their sidearms while on duty? And Henry Winkler is a moron. He can complain all he likes but the second he grabs for the gun my mom uses for self-defense, he’ll learn what happens next. People like him set the most ridiculous and draconian of standards for themselves before they will allow themselves to learn the value of the 2nd Amendment: they want to suffer a crime personally before reconsidering. That’s their benchmark. The suffering of all the other people staring them in the face means nothing to them.

ignatius (83941f) — 9/16/2013 @ 11:16 am

I have not turned on the TV this morning and have done my best to avoid updates and speculation on the net. We should accept that there is nothing being reported at this time– by anybody– which can confidently be taken to the bank with recent history as a guide.

elissa (bf3931) — 9/16/2013 @ 11:17 am

WaPo is saying at least 9 dead now. Lockdown still in effect over there and searches are underway, so it’s possible all the casualties have not been located.

Still no word on identity of shooter killed (or the other two reported wanted for questioning.)

Dan S (ea09ad) — 9/16/2013 @ 11:20 am

Oops, live report just bumped count of confirmed dead to 12 ( is a shooter).This is local ABC station.

So someone is spreading that number to news outlets.

Dan S (ea09ad) — 9/16/2013 @ 11:24 am

Hmm, my comment asking why military are not allowed to carry their sidearms whenever on duty has been lost or expunged.

ignatius (83941f) — 9/16/2013 @ 11:38 am

Well dang there it is now.. nevermind..

ignatius (83941f) — 9/16/2013 @ 11:38 am

The layers and layers of fact checkers in the MFM managed to ID the wrong person as a shooter. Again. Doug Ross is googling Tea Party as we speak.

JD (1dc9fd) — 9/16/2013 @ 11:44 am

Don’t believe a single word about a second and/or third gunman until there’s proof!

Icy (6cbda0) — 9/16/2013 @ 11:45 am

http://minx.cc/?post=343439

To reiterate, Pete Williams says that police are questioning the man whose employee badge was found near the body of the shooter (or by the body of one of the shooters, if there were several). Based on Notle’s updating, it looks like Rollie Chance had recently been demoted, but his badge was still working as far as granting access. The shooter used that badge. The question on that score is how did he get it and why did he have it.

Sammy Finkelman (e0f80a) — 9/16/2013 @ 12:03 pm

One of the two being sought has been ruled out as a suspect.

Dead shooter IDed via fingerprints, they say. Civilian contractor from Texas who got in using a coworkers badge that should have been both turned in and invalidated, since that person was no longer working there.

No surprise it wasn’t, based on constant OIG warnings in other agencies that people who leave aren’t cleared out of the security systems…

Dan S (ea09ad) — 9/16/2013 @ 12:04 pm

Heh, I had a personal experience with a DoD contractor badge that wasn’t turned in by a coworker. Despite that serious security violation (which we reported!), she was promptly hired on directly by the agency I work in after being booted out the door by the contractor.

And we trust gummint with our security…

Dan S (ea09ad) — 9/16/2013 @ 12:08 pm

The shield law should only apply to journalist like those on NBC, CBS,…uh…er…whoever I deem a journalist in the last five minutes!
Onethousandonehundredeleventyone!

Diane Feinstein (794c75) — 9/16/2013 @ 12:08 pm

Military are not allowed to carry their weapons on base because of President Clinton.

The more serious answer was to prevent firearms accidents on base because if you have a hundred thousand people with guns, statistically, every year there will be some accidents.

Of course, that makes them defenseless when targeted by attacks of this nature, which then causes a different number of statistical deaths. And as people see it to be successful exactly because such bases are unarmed once you get inside…

In any case, it was something President Clinton could do against firearms and against the military, and he had justification that was only semi-lame, so he did it.

luagha (5cbe06) — 9/16/2013 @ 12:11 pm

Down to one shooter now, the dead one.

Dan S (ea09ad) — 9/16/2013 @ 12:15 pm

Nah, that justification is completely lame unless he’s going to ban cars on roads.

Dan S (ea09ad) — 9/16/2013 @ 12:17 pm

NBC’s Pete Williams claims the shooter is Aaron Alexis, a civilian contractor from Fort Worth TX. This may be his photo.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 12:19 pm

The are now officially identifying the shooter as 34-year-old Aaron Alexis from Fort Worth.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 12:20 pm

Apparently he shot them from a 4th floor overlook in the cafeteria.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 12:22 pm

Alexis was arrested in September 2010 for discharging a firearm.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 12:26 pm

People with proper badges are allowed to enter Navy Yard without having their bags checked, Pete Williams reported.

Icy (6cbda0) — 9/16/2013 @ 12:26 pm

When I tried to talk about the host’s question, “Can we finally have a discussion on gun violence?” on the Delaware liberal, I got booted, saying “Dana is out for 48 hours. The bodies are not even cold and I have to read his NRA bullshit, here? No way.”

Of course, the bodies weren’t even cold when they started using the incident to argue for gun control.

The amused Dana (3e4784) — 9/16/2013 @ 12:29 pm

I have a comment that seems to be in the mod queue.

The Dana in moderation (3e4784) — 9/16/2013 @ 12:33 pm

Gunman identified as Aaron Alexis, 34, through his fingerprints.

Three weapons were found on the gunman: an AR-15 assault rifle, a shotgun and a semiautomatic pistol, the official said, probably more than he carried in.

Source: New York Times citing senior law enforcement officials.

Sammy Finkelman (e0f80a) — 9/16/2013 @ 12:37 pm

==People with proper badges are allowed to enter Navy Yard without having their bags checked, Pete Williams reported.==

Does this mean that credentialed non-military contractors can come on base without a security check but active military of any rank may not carry a weapon in base? Does it?

elissa (bf3931) — 9/16/2013 @ 12:45 pm

Dana, “discussion” means “shutup”.

SPQR (5557ef) — 9/16/2013 @ 1:00 pm

Senatus Populusque Romanus wrote:

Dana, “discussion” means “shutup”.

Well, of course it does! How could I not have known that?

The corrected Dana (3e4784) — 9/16/2013 @ 1:05 pm

Does he look like Obama’s son?

Rodney King's Spirit (5afc40) — 9/16/2013 @ 1:10 pm

RKS wrote:

Does he look like Obama’s son?

Racist! I denounce you!

The highly offended Dana (3e4784) — 9/16/2013 @ 1:12 pm

I wish they had more common sense.

Funny! That is what we all say about you.

Yoda (ee1de0) — 9/16/2013 @ 1:28 pm

Home Grown or Foreign Export?

mg (31009b) — 9/16/2013 @ 1:34 pm

Military are not allowed to carry their weapons on base because of President Clinton.

The more serious answer was to prevent firearms accidents on base because if you have a hundred thousand people with guns, statistically, every year there will be some accidents.

Of course, that makes them defenseless when targeted by attacks of this nature, which then causes a different number of statistical deaths. And as people see it to be successful exactly because such bases are unarmed once you get inside…

In any case, it was something President Clinton could do against firearms and against the military, and he had justification that was only semi-lame, so he did it.

Comment by luagha (5cbe06) — 9/16/2013 @ 12:11 pm

Thanks for the heads up and now that I look around, this bizarre policy was questioned back in ’09 after the Ft. Hood atrocity. And yet it remains in place. It has never made sense and it will never make sense.

There are at least two places, guaranteed, to be unarmed due to misguided laws: schools and military bases forphuqsake. Due to the politically correct and accepted paranoia, because paranoia over crime and trusting other people to stop mass shooters before they rack up body count is currently out of political favor.

Phuqphuqphuqphuq…. PHUQ…

ignatius (83941f) — 9/16/2013 @ 1:42 pm

If all blacks did was murder at the same rate as white, our US o A murder rate would be like the same as France’s.

Rodney King's Spirit (5afc40) — 9/16/2013 @ 1:49 pm

When I tried to talk about the host’s question, “Can we finally have a discussion on gun violence?” on the Delaware liberal, I got booted, saying “Dana is out for 48 hours. The bodies are not even cold and I have to read his NRA bullshit, here? No way.”

I just clicked over to that site to see the exchange. Jeeze, Dana, why do you even bother with those jerk-offs? As you pointed out, their only recourse to defending their weak and shallow arguments is to start in with the name-calling once they are called on their stupidity.

Life is way too short to spend any time commenting on left-wing blogs.

JVW (93c84b) — 9/16/2013 @ 1:50 pm

When I tried to talk about the host’s question, “Can we finally have a discussion on gun violence?” on the Delaware liberal, I got booted, saying “Dana is out for 48 hours. The bodies are not even cold and I have to read his NRA bullshit, here? No way.”

Of course, the bodies weren’t even cold when they started using the incident to argue for gun control.

Comment by The amused Dana (3e4784) — 9/16/2013 @ 12:29 pm

Congrats Dana, I consider it a badge of honor when a comment board I make similar arguments at, as the dissenting opinion, obviously, I end up banned or even worse, shadow-banned. The oh-so-tolerant-1st-Amendment-hypocs strike with predictable regularity with no trace of irony whatsoever.

I’m glad he’s dead. Now we don’t have to go through the circus of trying him, insisting it isn’t terrorism at the outset, sentencing, and then keeping the puss puke fed and sheltered for the rest of his stinking life.

ignatius (83941f) — 9/16/2013 @ 1:51 pm

Elissa — yes.

Inside D.C, a gun-free zone (inside the Navy Yard, a gun-free zone (inside a secure installation, a gun-free zone.)))

I don’t think the guns are obeying the laws.

htom (412a17) — 9/16/2013 @ 2:00 pm

Occupiers of the White House are in party mode.
Another Wellstone memorial opportunity.

mg (31009b) — 9/16/2013 @ 2:05 pm

Note to SF:

There is NO SUCH THING as an AR-15 Assault Rifle.

Normal protocol when working on DoD facilities is that when you are issued your ID, and show registration and insurance info for your car, you are issued a decal for your car’s front bumper or windshield. Different colors for different classifications (Enlisted, NCO, CO, Civilian). Normally, upon seeing the decal on the car, the gate-guard will wave you through unless they’ve got a “check ID” thing going on –
Officers usually rate a “hand salute”, particularly when in uniform.

askeptic (b8ab92) — 9/16/2013 @ 2:10 pm

Damn law-breaking guns!

Icy (6cbda0) — 9/16/2013 @ 2:12 pm

Comment by elissa (bf3931) — 9/16/2013 @ 12:45 pm

Yes, it does. The only personnel On-Base who are allowed to carry weapons are Security Personnel – On Duty – if their jobs call for it.

askeptic (b8ab92) — 9/16/2013 @ 2:13 pm

WASHINGTON (AP) – The Navy says a gunman who opened fire inside a building at the Washington Navy Yard was a full-time reservist from 2007 to 2011. The Navy said in a release Monday that 34-year-old Aaron Alexis, of Texas, left the Navy on Jan. 31, 2011, as a petty officer 3rd class. It’s not immediately clear why he left.

Icy (6cbda0) — 9/16/2013 @ 2:13 pm

A PO3?
Probably from lack of advancement.
His ER’s should make good reading.

askeptic (b8ab92) — 9/16/2013 @ 2:15 pm

Good to know “we” trust the honor system. oops.

elissa (bf3931) — 9/16/2013 @ 2:18 pm

==People with proper badges are allowed to enter Navy Yard without having their bags checked, Pete Williams reported.==

Does this mean that credentialed non-military contractors can come on base without a security check but active military of any rank may not carry a weapon in base? Does it?

I don’t see the contradiction here. Presumably active military are not searched either. And contractors are not allowed to carry weapons. It’s a foolish policy, but not a perverse one, or at least it’s not perverse in that specific way.

Milhouse (82b1e0) — 9/16/2013 @ 2:19 pm

According to this report, Alexis was a Naval reservist stationed in Fort Worth until 2011, his home state was New York, and he was a practicing Buddhist.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 2:25 pm

Is this a general open thread? This si something about how Congress got its exemption from obamacare:

http://www.seraphicpress.com/obamacare-we-are-all-equal-but-congress-more-equal-than-others/#more-18993

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 9/16/2013 @ 2:28 pm

That’s some deadly nirvana that buddhist had.

mg (31009b) — 9/16/2013 @ 2:31 pm

48. Comment by Icy (6cbda0) — 9/16/2013 @ 12:26 pm

People with proper badges are allowed to enter Navy Yard without having their bags checked, Pete Williams reported.

Even if the badges don’t belong to them.

Who compares people with the pictures on the picture ID?

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 9/16/2013 @ 2:36 pm

I doubt it is practical to search every vehicle entering a post every day, and anecdotal reports say there were inspections and security upon entering the buildings. It sounds like Alexis may have used his guns to gain entrance to the building he targeted, which is why there was a response by base security even before the Metro and Park police units responded 2 minutes later.

I’m not sure it’s possible to stop every attack like this, and letting personnel carry arms has it’s pros and cons — although my preference is to let adults who have CCW permits and military with weapons training to carry arms.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 2:38 pm

That’s another thing – a person entering an area by force.

Adam Lanza did that too in the school in Newton, Connexticut, also somebidy once at teh Capitol Building.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 9/16/2013 @ 2:42 pm

Here’s the correct link for my comment #70 — the one that reports Alexis was a Naval reservist stationed in Fort Worth until 2011, that his home state was New York, and that he was a practicing Buddhist.

This is rank speculation but it’s interesting to think about why Alexis might have done this. Some reports said Alexis was a civilian contractor but the linked report said he was Naval Reserves. I guess it’s possible he was both. The link also confirms Alexis was arrested (but not charged) with discharging a firearm into an upstairs apartment in the Fall 2010 in Fort Worth. He claimed he was cleaning the weapon but his neighbor thought otherwise.

It’s not hard to imagine that even if Tarrant County authorities declined to charge Alexis in 2010, the Navy might have decided not to retain him. And if the Fort Worth reserve office told Alexis it was a decision made by Washington, that might explain why his anger was directed at Washington — especially if he had problems finding a job between 2011 and 2013.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 2:43 pm

The FBI.gov website says Alexis’ last known residence was in Fort Worth, so that suggests he wasn’t employed in DC. He was born in Queens, NY.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 2:50 pm

In other news, sarin found in recent chemical attack in Syria. I think that is settled then.

The Emperor (3db71b) — 9/16/2013 @ 2:55 pm

A black man having trouble finding a job in Obama’s economy? But we’re in recovery! Say it ain’t so!

luagha (5cbe06) — 9/16/2013 @ 2:56 pm

JVW wrote:

Life is way too short to spend any time commenting on left-wing blogs.

To me, debating is just plain fun. I don’t see it as a good thing to avoid the enemy’s views. If I get banned for arguing my positions — as opposed to for personal attacks and the like — then I know that I’ve won.

The argumentative Dana (af9ec3) — 9/16/2013 @ 2:59 pm

The unemployment rate for black men in Fort Worth is high.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 3:05 pm

In 1-2-3-
He was a white black.

mg (31009b) — 9/16/2013 @ 3:06 pm

At page 34 of my last link, the unemployment rate for white men in Fort Worth is 6.3%. The rate for black men is 12.7%.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 3:07 pm

Jason330 and liberal elite are mendoucheous twatwaffles. That is all.

JD (cbd374) — 9/16/2013 @ 3:07 pm

Sorry. Page 32, not page 34.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 3:07 pm

another case for anyone carry over the age of 21, anywhere without restrictions

cause restrictions make good helpless targets, for law breakers

EPWJ (f44e22) — 9/16/2013 @ 3:10 pm

I’m sorry but the DC Metro Police Chief just looks like a tired wash rag wearing mom’s work clothes.

ignatius (83941f) — 9/16/2013 @ 3:16 pm

sarin found in recent chemical attack in Syria

no, the UN claims to have found signs indicating Sarin.

and, since the UN is about as honest as Ear Leader, the MFM or our resident trolls, i give them as much credence as they deserve.

IOW, none.

redc1c4 (abd49e) — 9/16/2013 @ 3:17 pm

The shooter appears to be another semi-insane person, left alone in a fog of officials’ “complete indiscriminateness” as formulated by Evan Sayet and others.

We simply cannot discriminate against anyone until they blow a dozen people away. Or joins the tea party.

So a man is beaten nearly to death by a vagrant in the SF library; a professor is stabbed to death by a vagrant outside the soccer stadium; an Army major massacres 13 people.

It’s going to happen again, because the official policy is there is no such thing as a bad person. Until he kills a dozen people.

Patricia (be0117) — 9/16/2013 @ 3:30 pm

To me, debating is just plain fun. I don’t see it as a good thing to avoid the enemy’s views. If I get banned for arguing my positions — as opposed to for personal attacks and the like — then I know that I’ve won.

Well you are a lot more tolerant than I am. At this point I have ended any delusions that I might change the minds of committed liberals, and focus my attention on trying to convince independents and young left-leaners that there is an alternative way of looking at things than what they are hearing in the media, in their schools, and in popular culture.

JVW (93c84b) — 9/16/2013 @ 3:31 pm

This is terribly sad for the victims and their families. This is a senseless act and I feel so sorry for them.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 3:33 pm

Arrest wayne lapierre as an enemy combattent. Ban nra for being terrorist organization Register allguns and all gun faggots should have there guns confiscated.

stop gun faggots now (e28798) — 9/16/2013 @ 3:35 pm

Arrest wayne lapierre as an enemy combattent. Ban nra for being terrorist organization Register allguns and all gun faggots should have there guns confiscated.

And while we’re at it, repeal all those pesky amendments to the Constitution that make it difficult to install a progressive paradise, like the ones in Cuba and North Korea.

Oh and by the way, your use of “faggots” in your screen-name constitutes a Hate Crime, so you will have to either report to the reeducation camp or face extermination. Thank you for your cooperation.

JVW (93c84b) — 9/16/2013 @ 3:40 pm

This report claims Alexis has a history of incidents with a gun and anger management issues:

Aaron Alexis, the man identified by Washington D.C. police as a suspect in this morning’s tragic attack on a US Navy Yard, was previously arrested by Seattle police in 2004 for shooting out the tires of another man’s vehicle in what Alexis later described to detectives as an anger-fueled “blackout.”
***
Following his arrest, Alexis told detectives he perceived he had been “mocked” by construction workers the morning of the incident and said they had “disrespected him.” Alexis also claimed he had an anger-fueled “blackout,” and could not remember firing his gun at the victims’ vehicle until an hour after the incident.

Both Alexis and his family says his anger stemmed from PTSD after 9/11.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 3:41 pm

Whoops! The reeducation camp is presently at capacity, so please choose a blindfold and help yourself to a cigarette, comrade.

JVW (93c84b) — 9/16/2013 @ 3:43 pm

I guess now we know why the FBI has asked for citizen input. Perhaps Alexis has a history of confrontations, culminating in what happened today.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 3:43 pm

This type of crime especially resonates with us I think. That’s because we can all so easily relate to people of any profession who have their morning coffee and kiss their families goodbye and leave their homes to go to their regular, usual jobs as so many of us do. But today’s victims will never come home. This was one of the many things about 9-11 that was also so awful to contemplate.

elissa (bf3931) — 9/16/2013 @ 3:45 pm

Pure act of senselessness. May the souls of those who lost their lives rest in peace.

The Emperor (fc6588) — 9/16/2013 @ 3:47 pm

Alexis hasn’t lived at his last known address in Fort Worth for 6-8 months. It could be he was still in Fort Worth but I’m sure authorities would like to know where he was.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 3:48 pm

Mr. gun faggots is very convincing and erudite, no? He probably spells better when he is not so upset.

elissa (bf3931) — 9/16/2013 @ 3:49 pm

Perhaps he was enrolled in an extension course at the Bill Ayers Institute of Social Change?

askeptic (b8ab92) — 9/16/2013 @ 3:50 pm

It reminded me of 9/11 for the same reason, elissa. I think that’s why it bothers me so much that Alexis claims to have PTSD following 9/11. Replicating that by killing innocents should be the last thing Alexis would want.

But if he thinks a construction crew in Seattle mocked and disrepected him by interfering with his parking place, who knows what he thought about the Navy Yard?

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 3:50 pm

Arrest wayne lapierre as an enemy combattent. Ban nra for being terrorist organization Register allguns and all gun faggots should have there guns confiscated.

Is that you, jason330?

JD (5c1832) — 9/16/2013 @ 3:52 pm

If nra was prosecuted as a terrorist organization and their leadership jailed as co-conspiritors I am sure an all black jury in washington dc would find them all guilty!

stop gun faggots now (e28798) — 9/16/2013 @ 3:52 pm

75.Happy terrorists’ day motherf*ckers!! Lol!!!

Comment by The Emperor (d356d4) — 9/11/2013 @ 6:05 am

nk (875f57) — 9/16/2013 @ 3:53 pm

Well he has a record of certain ‘anger management’ issues, to put it, delicately.

narciso (3fec35) — 9/16/2013 @ 3:54 pm

This attack coming just days after the AQ leader called for attacks withtin America. Terrorist attack, no?

The Emperor (98014f) — 9/16/2013 @ 3:54 pm

==Is that you, jason330?==

Let’s look for clues, JD. Is Jason a hater and a poor speller?

elissa (bf3931) — 9/16/2013 @ 3:55 pm

And that’s 4 addresses for Chimpy on just this page.

nk (875f57) — 9/16/2013 @ 3:58 pm

Comment by DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 3:41 pm

A couple of interesting questions stand-out:

1. Was he ever treated for PTSD after 9/11? If I understand this correctly, he would have been about 22 years old during the Twin Tower attacks. It doesn’t sound like he immediately went out and joined the service, he waited for something like six years before joining the Naval reserves. What was it about about the attack caused him such personal trauma?

2. I immediately was struck by the shooting incident in 2004 and Alexis’ claim that he was “disrespected” by the construction workers which brought about the confrontation. We have raised a generation of young men — and let’s be brutally honest, young African-American men in particular — who are obsessed with the notion that they are constantly being “disrespected” and are thus justified in lashing out in anger.

As with most of these events, it will quickly boil down to one side saying that we need strict gun control and the other side saying we need to keep track of the loonies with past incidents of violence who are freely walking among us. The more rabid conspiracy theorists can speculate that Alexis was sacrificing himself in order to help Obama with his gun control agenda, or they can claim that he was mind-controlled by Haliburton and forced to do this to cover up Dick Cheney’s involvement in oil profiteering in Iraq or some such other nonsense.

JVW (93c84b) — 9/16/2013 @ 3:59 pm

He is clearly a white-black NRA teabagger

JD (5c1832) — 9/16/2013 @ 4:04 pm

Here is what purports to be the police report from Alexis’ 2004 arrest in Seattle. The owner of the vehicle Alexis shot appears to be an Hispanic who doesn’t speak English, and he was more interested in restitution from Alexis than in prosecuting him. That’s probably what happened after the police referred it to the court.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 4:05 pm

I am going to leave the hate-filled hohophobic troll’s comments up for a while. I would like for people to see its spittle flecked rage in all its constitution hating glory.

JD (5c1832) — 9/16/2013 @ 4:06 pm

no, the UN claims to have found signs indicating Sarin.

and, since the UN is about as honest as Ear Leader, the MFM or our resident trolls, i give them as much credence as they deserve.

IOW, none.

Comment by redc1c4 (abd49e) — 9/16/2013 @ 3:17 pm

I think I believe the UN findings. You might need to be physically doused with the gas before you can know that something must have killed those innocent Syrians. Even then you won’t believe because to you Obama is to blame for everything wrong in the world.

The Emperor (d356d4) — 9/16/2013 @ 4:06 pm

I wonder if our friend gun faggot knows who Otis McDonald is.

elissa (bf3931) — 9/16/2013 @ 4:07 pm

Maybe he and his family blamed 9/11 PTSD but it sounds like he had mental problems, JVW. Even becoming a Buddhist could be a clue because a big part of that religion is meditation. Perhaps Alexis viewed Buddhism in general and meditation in particular as a way to control his inner demons.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 4:08 pm

And findings point to the regime as the source. So the question is, what next?

The Emperor (03864d) — 9/16/2013 @ 4:11 pm

Okay, I’ll bite …. What findings? There is a lot of yapping about that, but congresscritters from both sides of the aisle came out of the briefings less convinced than before they went in.

JD (5c1832) — 9/16/2013 @ 4:16 pm

The most interesting finding is that the missiles used to deliver the chemicals had Cyrillic markings:

The inspectors said that 330-mm caliber rockets fired into one neighborhood likely came from the same multiple-rocket launcher. The resulting craters were small, indicating that the rockets were carrying chemical weapons rather than explosives.

The rockets had the markings 97-179 and what appear to be Cyrillic letters and numbers on the bottom ring of an engine, the report said.

It wasn’t immediately clear whether these markings relate to munitions in the Syrian government arsenal or whether opposition fighters could have had access to such munitions.

Russia is known to supply munitions to Syria. It’s possible the rebels acquired some Syrian weapons, especially if they were in a captured area, but I don’t know how likely it would be that the rebels would know how to use these weapons.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 4:18 pm

The Emperor, the copy of the report that I saw had a bizarre set of typographic errors, but it appears that the rocket debris is pretty clearly Syria Army given its type and markings.

The “what next?” ought to be addressed to Obama who seems to have no clue what is next.

SPQR (768505) — 9/16/2013 @ 4:19 pm

It’s also possible these were faked markings.

In any event, I’m sure Russia will release a report that these couldn’t have been its weapons and they couldn’t have been used by the Syrians.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 4:20 pm

DRJ, BM 14 rockets are not 330mm. That’s an example of the odd typos in the report that I saw.

SPQR (768505) — 9/16/2013 @ 4:21 pm

The Emperor said:

Obama is to blame for everything wrong in the world.

Finally, we agree on something!

The agreeable Dana (af9ec3) — 9/16/2013 @ 4:21 pm

Despite my sarcasm, above, I agree with SPQR that these markings suggest Syrian regime weapons that were probably obtained from the Russians.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 4:22 pm

I don’t know anything about Russian rockets but I thought the report said it was “a variant of the M14 artillery rocket and a 330 mm caliber artillery rocket.”

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 4:26 pm

Apparently the chemical was launched by rocket missiles which could only have come from the regime. Although these claims are being denied by Syria and Russia, it seems most likely.

The Emperor (d356d4) — 9/16/2013 @ 4:26 pm

#112 LOL.

Rodney King's Spirit (5afc40) — 9/16/2013 @ 4:32 pm

My references state that the BM 14 MLS rocket launcher uses 140mm rockets, that a Chinese copy uses 130mm rockets. I’m trying to figure out a 330mm system and haven’t found it in my references yet.

SPQR (768505) — 9/16/2013 @ 4:33 pm

The Emperor, the excerpts I’ve seen imply that the actual warhead fragments were not recovered but the logical inference is that the rocket debris was associated with the chemical attacks.

SPQR (768505) — 9/16/2013 @ 4:35 pm

Russian rockets of the kind used are ubiquitous throughout the Middle East & elsewhere.

even the report states that the chemical warhead may have been “improvised”…as there apparently isn’t any physical remains.

of course, that means that someone could have scattered rocket debris in the area, or even fired them into the area, then released a poisonous chemical into the vicinity, creating “evidence” for those looking to support their theories.

i’m still waiting for someone to give a rational reason for Assad to use weapons such as this.

redc1c4 (abd49e) — 9/16/2013 @ 4:39 pm

stop gun faggots may have hit on something. It may be that Alexis’s problem was the same as Bradley Manning’s.

“Nutpisit Suthamtewakul, owner of Happy Bowl Thai in White Settlement, Texas, said was a “good and close friend” of Alexis. He said the two lived together for three or four years.” http://abcnews.go.com/US/washington-dc-navy-yard-shooter-aaron-alexis-navy/story?id=20273287

nk (875f57) — 9/16/2013 @ 4:40 pm

DRJ I suspect at least some kind of temporal lobe/limbic system malfunction. There are clues he suffered from auditory hallucinations amongst the incidents/raging episodes.

You’re probably correct about the interest in Buddhism being a potential result of such problems. Interest in spiritual themes of both payback and detachment, and his meditation habits that might represent a desire to still invasive thoughts, or preoccupations typical of temppral lobe dysfunction.

I think he was “touched” – ie nuts, like Dr. Amy Bishop, and that brushing his issues off onto the underdiagnosis of PTSD was a mistake.

Sarahw (b0e533) — 9/16/2013 @ 4:41 pm

@SPQR. Can I see this link please?

The Emperor (98014f) — 9/16/2013 @ 4:41 pm

redc1c4, The Syrian Ba’athist regime has used terror on its own citizens for decades. I don’t think the motivation is a real mystery.

SPQR (768505) — 9/16/2013 @ 4:42 pm

The Emperor, I’m trying to download the original UN report now but am being frustrated by slow access at the moment. I have this for the report:

http://www.un.org/disarmament/content/slideshow/Secretary_General_Report_of_CW_Investigation.pdf

SPQR (768505) — 9/16/2013 @ 4:43 pm

Teh Chimperor…

Colonel Haiku (d9446d) — 9/16/2013 @ 4:46 pm

the Frogfoot apparently can carry 330mm rockets…but the references to them say they are FAE’s. i supposed you could exchange one payload for another.

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/su25/su253.html

redc1c4 (abd49e) — 9/16/2013 @ 4:51 pm

Assad has plenty of ways to terrorize the population that won’t bring the threat of outside intervention.

there isn’t any upside to the government to have done this, but there is lots of players who stand to benefit from making it look like they did.

redc1c4 (abd49e) — 9/16/2013 @ 4:53 pm

I’m finding the report’s annotations a bit opaque but I believe that the BM 14 rocket which is the subject of the more detailed markings, has not been tied to Sarin by samples taken from it, but rather soil samples from nearby. The 330 mm (or 36 cm) rocket has Sarin breakdown products identified from its warhead fragment but has very little recovered markings and is not so obviously traceable ordnance.

SPQR (768505) — 9/16/2013 @ 4:57 pm

redc1c4, the Frogfoot is an aircraft. Its rockets are not artillery rockets and I don’t think their configuration matches the described 36 cm rocket very well. But who knows.

SPQR (768505) — 9/16/2013 @ 5:00 pm

@ SPQR. The pdf might be bad. Out of the 41 pages, just less than two pages appear. Must be the slow internet access thingy too. Thanks anyway.

The Emperor (03864d) — 9/16/2013 @ 5:01 pm

They had struck many of those targets before, over the last year, when they were threatened more seriously by the rebel advance,

narciso (3fec35) — 9/16/2013 @ 5:05 pm

The Iranians produce a 333mm rocket, in two varients and may have supplied it to Hezbollah.

SPQR (768505) — 9/16/2013 @ 5:06 pm

Ah, and Syria too. I’m leaning toward the larger rocket being Iranian.

SPQR (768505) — 9/16/2013 @ 5:07 pm

If it is th BM-14, that’s been in use all over the world, and in Syria, since ’67, now of course one would have to establish a chain of custody, good luck with that.

narciso (3fec35) — 9/16/2013 @ 5:14 pm

From Appendix 5 beginning at page 21 of the UN report:

The ordnance identified had the following characteristics:

Color: Light gray painting
Markings:
1. Black numbers on the outside: 97-179
2. Engravings on the bottom ring of the engine: [NOTE by DRJ: Cyrillic, and my keyboard can’t reproduce them.]
Dimensions:
Length — 630 mm
Width — 140mm

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 5:15 pm

re: #143… the NSA is on to your monkeyshines, Chimperor. Your IP/traffic are gated and run through their MegaAnalyzer for sh*ts n’ grins.

Colonel Haiku (d9446d) — 9/16/2013 @ 5:16 pm

Something else I find very suspicious is the Syrian regime’s willingness to give up there chemical weapons asernal to UN control. Seems like a guilty man’s way of trying to avert attention from his crime. It seems Assad will do anything to avert a US raid and possible trial for him and his goons. But then I also see a dark cat in a dark room, blindfolded. 🙂

The Emperor (98014f) — 9/16/2013 @ 5:16 pm

DRJ, its the second rocket that is puzzling me. The one described as 330mm (but measured at 36cm). The diagram does not match any rockets I can find.

SPQR (768505) — 9/16/2013 @ 5:21 pm

The Emperor, seems more to me like getting the UN and the US to guarantee the regime. Because you can’t send UN troops into Syria in the middle of a civil war. So we have to preserve Assad while disarming him.

That’s why so many people think Obama got roofie’d.

SPQR (768505) — 9/16/2013 @ 5:22 pm

I recently spent a week in a large federal building. I was on a visitor’s pass and had to empty my pockets, and run my bags through an x-ray machine.

Everyone else entering the building had to do this too, regardless of a visitor or permanent employee.

There were multiple, armed guards at every entrance.

Why in the world would a military installation have less security than this?

Maybe the people who were supervising “security” in Benghazi are now working at the Navy Yard?

When are we going to learn?

WarEagle82 (2b7355) — 9/16/2013 @ 5:32 pm

No good options for Mr president it seems.

The Emperor (98014f) — 9/16/2013 @ 5:35 pm

“Something else I find very suspicious is the Syrian regime’s willingness to give up there chemical weapons asernal to UN control.”

Spit out that Koolaid and think about how likely it is that Assad cares what Obama thinks.

MikeK (dc6ffe) — 9/16/2013 @ 5:35 pm

At page 25, the report says munitions were recovered from two sites: Impact Site 1 and Impact Site 4. Impact Site 1 came from Moadamiyah and the shells were 140 mm. Impact Site 4 came from Ein Tarma. That is the impact site where 330 mm shells were found. Three other impact sites were investigation but no useful information was recovered about trajectories or (presumably) munitions).

One explanation for that and for exercising caution about this report is also set forth on page 25, which has this warning:

As with other sites, the locations have been well traveled by other individuals prior to the arrival of the Mission. Time spent on the sites was well-used but limited. During the time spent at these locations, individuals arrived carrying other suspected munitions indicating that other potential evidence is being moved and possibly manipulated.

In other words, you’re right to be skeptical, red.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 5:36 pm

You would think after the last incidence of ‘work place violence’ they would have done something.

narciso (3fec35) — 9/16/2013 @ 5:36 pm

This is from earlier this year, in the same general area;

http://yallasouriya.wordpress.com/2013/04/16/syria-damascus-moadamiyah-immediately-after-the-fall-of/

narciso (3fec35) — 9/16/2013 @ 5:38 pm

Including security screens that include arrests as well as convictions, and investigations of mental soundness and stability.

Sarahw (b0e533) — 9/16/2013 @ 5:38 pm

IT guys seem to float on in no matter how tightly wound they are.

Sarahw (b0e533) — 9/16/2013 @ 5:39 pm

WarEagle82,

According to witness reports and reports from people who frequent the Navy Yard, that is the procedure for the buildings in the Yard. It could be Alexis started shooting at the building’s security checkpoint.

That would explain why at least one base security officer was shot (at the checkpoint?) and why, at today’s press conference, Police Chief Lanier said there was more than one shooting encounter between Alexis and base security, Metro police, and the Park police.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 5:41 pm

This was the other location, a year ago.

http://bambuser.com/v/2869351

narciso (3fec35) — 9/16/2013 @ 5:44 pm

i know the SU-25 is an aircraft, and it’s rockets could conceivably be modified to use surface to surface, or, for that matter, could have been used to launch such an attack.

given the illiteracy of the UN “report”, i was just looking for *some* Russian munition that might fit what they pulled out of their 4th point of contact.

redc1c4 (abd49e) — 9/16/2013 @ 5:48 pm

Allahpundit includes a link that says the building was very tightly secured with multiple checkpoints.

In addition, another link says Alexis had recently spent a month in Thailand. Curious. Apparently there are Muslim jihadis in Thailand so it would be interesting to know where Alexis was and who he met with.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 5:49 pm

More Muslim jihad in Thailand from Zombietime. Not safe for work, children, or the faint of heart.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 5:51 pm

Another phony scandal trumped up by Rethuglicans !

Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 9/16/2013 @ 5:51 pm

146. Ah, and Syria too. I’m leaning toward the larger rocket being Iranian.

Comment by SPQR (768505) — 9/16/2013 @ 5:07 pm

Yeah, FAJR-5. It’s nominally 333mm.

So if the Russians release a report saying these couldn’t have been their weapons, no doubt they’re right. The closest Russian system I can find is the BM-30 MRLS, which is 300mm. Still too small.

The Russians can also plausibly blame the rebels. A lot of weapons change hands during a civil war. And you don’t need the rocket launcher to launch the rocket. In a pinch a handy berm will do.

If the Obama tucked tail and let the Chinese stop the UNSC from blaming the NORKs for sinking the Cheonan after all the damning evidence the ROKs and US recovered, does anyone think Obama is going to go to the mattresses if the Russians and the Chinese refuse to let the UNSC assign blame to Assad for this?

Steve57 (6f26ff) — 9/16/2013 @ 5:53 pm

Thailand is better known for another type of tourism. Where’s Mark?

nk (875f57) — 9/16/2013 @ 5:58 pm

Another mentally ill person with a gun, and a history of gun craziness.

So why do we need NSA wide net surveillance if we ignore people like him?

Patricia (be0117) — 9/16/2013 @ 5:59 pm

His friend and roomate of “three or four” years has a Thai name.

nk (875f57) — 9/16/2013 @ 6:01 pm

Perhaps “roommate” should be the word in quotations ?

Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 9/16/2013 @ 6:03 pm

He’s alive and he’s not a public figure so ima beinga careful.

nk (875f57) — 9/16/2013 @ 6:07 pm

So there’s more then a few similarities with Dorner,

narciso (3fec35) — 9/16/2013 @ 6:08 pm

Ace has been broadly hinting his own consideration of the jihadi angle.

Obama was hinting in even broader fashion that there was “something there” to be found on that score, with his “We will find those responsible” schtick.

Honestly I think he was just nuts, though. If he turns out to have any leaning that way I think its almost incidental – an excuse – to go and rage kill.

Sarahw (b0e533) — 9/16/2013 @ 6:16 pm

Most gun faggots are repressed homosexuals, insted of going to gay bar they go and shoot people to get off. Every time they want to have sex with young boy they go and buy a gun instead!

stop gun faggots now (0ff260) — 9/16/2013 @ 6:24 pm

Bound to be a registered Democrat…

Colonel Haiku (be7651) — 9/16/2013 @ 6:34 pm

==This attack coming just days after the AQ leader called for attacks withtin America. Terrorist attack, no? Comment by The Emperor (98014f) — 9/16/2013 @ 3:54 pm==

Heh. The Emperor called it at 3:54 pm. Of course at the time he/she thought he was being clever and sarcastic.

elissa (bf3931) — 9/16/2013 @ 6:36 pm

Pat, you really need to work on attracting higher quality trolls.

This thing’s so bad not even I care to deal with it.

Steve57 (6f26ff) — 9/16/2013 @ 6:38 pm

175. You may be a be a racist.

Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 9/16/2013 @ 6:43 pm

It is striking how really shallow, this report was, compared to this;

http://brown-moses.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/who-was-responsible-for-august-21st.html

narciso (3fec35) — 9/16/2013 @ 6:43 pm

==This thing’s so bad not even I care to deal with it.==

Oh my. This does not speak highly of your troll skilz commenter known as stop gun faggots now. Mr. Steve57 is usually easily amused by trolls and quite willing and eager to engage them for sh#ts and giggles.

elissa (bf3931) — 9/16/2013 @ 6:45 pm

Sometimes nazguls just need to be slammed specially on days like this,

narciso (3fec35) — 9/16/2013 @ 6:47 pm

I’m reading that A.A. was separated from the reserve for “a pattern of misconduct”, which is outlined in the gradations of badness as “discreditable involvement with civil or military authorities” or “conduct prejudicial to good order and discipline.”

Why they won’t say what it is I don’t know, but it’s looking like the 2010 incident was the last straw.

But somehow he maintained his security clearance.

Sarahw (b0e533) — 9/16/2013 @ 6:55 pm

Thai Buddhists are mean, BTW. They are fighting Buddhists, who war with enemies.

Sarahw (b0e533) — 9/16/2013 @ 6:56 pm

I am only up to comment #92 but JVW is correct. More time should be spent persuading independents like myself and young left-leaners whose hearts have yet to harden. We independents will listen and carefully weigh your words. The others will remember the civility, honesty, and patience they encounter when they mimic their liberal role models.

One of the many things I like about the commenters here is they don’t scream at me the way I get screamed at by commenters on liberal sites. It took me awhile to understand the dry wit (no names) of some and the dynamic between others. My time here has been well spent.

felipe (6100bc) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:05 pm

Sheesh, what a lame troll.

SPQR (768505) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:09 pm

#185 “and young left-leaners whose hearts have yet to harden.”

Hardly the case with the Right.

The difference between Right and Left is not of who has a better heart but which side is willing to do the painfully difficult things it takes to have a functioning productive society.

Anyone who is a responsible parent understands that caring requires many times less love. Or to put it as a famous song “too much love is worse than none at all.”

Rodney King's Spirit (5afc40) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:12 pm

183. …But somehow he maintained his security clearance.

Comment by Sarahw (b0e533) — 9/16/2013 @ 6:55 pm

There’s a wide range of security clearances. It’s not to hard to get a confidential or secret clearance. That just requires a National Agency Check or NAC. This guy seemed to have a couple of arrests for violent or negligent acts but was apparently never even charged let alone convicted.

So nothing would have popped up.

Similarly he may have had a record of misconduct, but if it was dealt with at NJP he wouldn’t have any sort of record. His record of misconduct would have been a matter of administrative proceedings, not judicial, as would have been his separation.

It’s only when you try to get a TS/SCI clearance that they really investigate you in what was in my day called a Special Security Background Investigation, or SSBI, as opposed to just doing a records check.

It actually doesn’t surprise me that he could have maintained some sort of clearance given what we’re being told about his background.

Steve57 (6f26ff) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:13 pm

Thoughts from friends and acquaintances about Alexis in this article.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:16 pm

He complained about a dispute over benefits, thought he was a good shot, liked video games, and had worked in Japan as a contractor. That’s apparently when he visited Thailand.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:17 pm

Thai Buddhists are mean, BTW. They are fighting Buddhists, who war with enemies.

Comment by Sarahw (b0e533) — 9/16/2013 @ 6:56 pm

They’re angels compared to Tibetan Buddhists who played polo with their enemies’ heads or Japanese Buddhists who tested their swords on passing peasants. Like Buddha said: If it is the karma of twelve innocent people to be senselessly slaughtered, twelve innocent people will be senselessly slaughtered. Buddhists may have Richard Gere fooled, they don’t have people who really know them fooled.

nk (875f57) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:21 pm

182. Sometimes nazguls just need to be slammed specially on days like this,

Comment by narciso (3fec35) — 9/16/2013 @ 6:47 pm

Nazguls, yes. But if you’re talking about this “stop gun faggots now” farce he’s more like the Sumerian demon Vinz Clortho that possesses Rick Moranis in Ghostbusters.

Steve57 (6f26ff) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:26 pm

Touche, Steve, jackalope doesn’t know when to turn it off.

narciso (3fec35) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:28 pm

That’s “nozdruls”, guys.

nk (875f57) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:29 pm

Glenn Reynolds writes:

SO WHILE PIERS MORGAN IS YAMMERING ON ABOUT BANNING “ASSAULT WEAPONS,” NBC News Is Reporting This.

The officials also said Alexis obtained the assault rifle used in the shooting from a gun safe on the naval base. There’s where he may have also obtained a handgun, according to authorities.

So if this reporting is true — and it’s early to be sure of that — the only gun Alexis actually bought was a Joe-Biden-Approved shotgun. The evil assault weapon was stolen from the military. That didn’t stop Piers, of course, but then concern for facts seldom does.

SPQR (768505) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:30 pm

my wife, the shooting enthusiast, will be amazed to find out she’s a repressed male homosexual…

redc1c4 (abd49e) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:31 pm

Reference: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/BoredOfTheRings?from=Main.BoredOfTheRings

nk (875f57) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:31 pm

That’s because Buddhists lack the concept of free will. Impermanence is a bitch.

Why do I hate dogs?

felipe (6100bc) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:32 pm

I still have a copy of Bored of the Rings.

“Pity stayed my hand … pity I ran out of bullets”

SPQR (768505) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:33 pm

I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that I doubt very much that this tragedy had anything to do with Buddhism.

It was probably just a mentally ill person.

I think the real question is how he managed to get a semi-automatic gun into a secure federal facility.

Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:34 pm

there is a certain taxonomy of mere trolls, uruk hai orcs, next level of annoying, then shrieking nazguls,
sometimes like today, they move up.

narciso (3fec35) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:34 pm

I’m on my third or fourth copy … maybe. My friends keep stealing it.

nk (875f57) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:35 pm

I think the real question is how he managed to get a semi-automatic gun into a secure federal facility.

not if he took from someone there…

redc1c4 (abd49e) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:36 pm

Arrest wayne lapierre as an enemy combattent. Ban nra for being terrorist organization Register allguns and all gun faggots should have there guns confiscated.

Why not ban gays to prevent more incidents like what happened in Penn State?

Michael Ejercito (b371e1) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:37 pm

BTW, SPQR, did your coffeeshop re-open yet?

nk (875f57) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:37 pm

Occupiers of the White House are in party mode.
Another Wellstone memorial opportunity.

Sort of in line with Obama who on the day after the Fort Hood massacre gave a speech in which his demeanor and tone at the outset were light-hearted, if not hokey-jokey.

The compassion crowd has big tears, big hearts.

Maybe he and his family blamed 9/11 PTSD but it sounds like he had mental problems, JVW. Even becoming a Buddhist could be a clue because a big part of that religion is meditation.

The killer doesn’t fit the typical pattern of most deranged mass shooters, in terms of his race (disregarding the DC snipers back in 2002) or his religion. In a way that makes the tragedy less ready-made for exploitation by various activist groups, left and right, although the pro-gun-control lobby will always lick its chops after such incidents.

Mark (58ea35) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:37 pm

203. Bing.

Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:40 pm

nk, no damage to my coffeeshop. I do have a client with a vacation home in the mountains that has no idea if it survived or not. And no way to find out anytime soon, as there are literally miles of washed out road on the route.

SPQR (768505) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:40 pm

Maybe he and his family blamed 9/11 PTSD but it sounds like he had mental problems, JVW. Even becoming a Buddhist could be a clue because a big part of that religion is meditation.

About that. When you have mental or emotional issues, inside your head is where you don’t want to be.

nk (875f57) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:41 pm

“Arrest wayne lapierre as an enemy combattent. Ban nra for being terrorist organization ”

Democrats sure hate the Constitution. Both the First and Second Amendments.

As the ubiquitous Dana learned above – “Discussion” means “shutup”.

SPQR (768505) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:42 pm

“About that. When you have mental or emotional issues, inside your head is where you don’t want to be.”

ROFL – such truth.

SPQR (768505) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:43 pm

felipe- Thank you for your feedback. I honestly had/have no idea what your politics are. I am guessing that like most of us your views and the choices you make depend on the issue and on the circumstances as you interpret them. Politics—like life–is complex. But knowledge is always power.

elissa (bf3931) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:46 pm

…The killer doesn’t fit the typical pattern of most deranged mass shooters, in terms of his race (disregarding the DC snipers back in 2002)…

Mark, Black mass shooters aren’t particularly rare. If you’re going to disregard the DC snipers, are you going to disregard Colin Furgeson? Or the guy who shot up some Black Expo in Alabama in 2010. The idea that mass shooters are almost exclusively White is a media fiction.

Or actually just not part of the media narrative. Which is why a CNN anchor was really surprised to hear that a military installation got shot up today. She had never heard about it before. I guess CNN didn’t cover Nidal Hasan’s recent trial.

Steve57 (6f26ff) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:46 pm

Chris Dorner

SPQR (768505) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:48 pm

If the second amendment is an insult, then the whole Constitution is an insult, including the first amendment.

That is why I distrust the left.

Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:51 pm

No gun is good gun! Nazi Racist Amerikka is evil and should be banned under tanti terrorist laws!

stop gun faggots now (747047) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:54 pm

It was probably just a mentally ill person.

I think the real question is how he managed to get a semi-automatic gun into a secure federal facility.

Comment by Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:34 pm

The answer to the last bit is, he didn’t. He arrived with a shot gun only, and got the AR out of a gun locker on the base.

And I think you are right, he was paranoid and vengeful and likely plain nuts. His spiritual interests might have given assistance to his impulses, but weren’t the real driver.

SarahW (b0e533) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:56 pm

Lame troll is lame.

SPQR (768505) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:56 pm

Tonight’s promotion is “bring your dog to the ballgame” at Comiskey Park. There is love and pooches of all sizes, and we are winning 11-0. Coincidence? I do not think so.

elissa (bf3931) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:57 pm

@89. In weak defense: you start your day with a phone call about active shooter or shooters, multiple casualties and a potential “mongrel” 1st response team (your troops, the Navy’s people, park police, Etc) and see how you look at what would be quitting time 8 hours later; Add in maybe a little bit of affirmative action that put you in the hot seat to begin with [admitted possible unfair speculation on my part] and see how you look at a press conference. From what is known so far, at least she didn’t try to micro-manage her command staff. Yes, its been known to happen with tragic results.

This isn’t “Law and Order” or “Adam-12” this is the Real Deal.

gramps, the original (6de5db) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:58 pm

More seriously, ‘agitprop’ is short for ‘agitation propaganda’ and attempting to gin up crazies to attack your opponents and serve your ends is a classic political technique. It’s why muslim crazy attackers always have crazy histories – so they can be discounted even though they make valid trouble – and why the libs put out that George Bush assassination play and movie.

Crazy people are easy to aggravate and make fly off the handle. The problem is that they’re hard to aim. But they give the impression of being one-off wankers that you couldn’t have detected because they’re crazy and then you miss the connection to the people who aggravated them.

luagha (1de9ec) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:59 pm

The homophobic troll ought to watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnWHC7B34Qw

SPQR (768505) — 9/16/2013 @ 7:59 pm

216. May have issues. It probably should not have a gun.

Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 9/16/2013 @ 8:02 pm

Speaking of coincidences, yesterday, taking the daughter back home, we got to talking about paranoid schizophrenics and started singing “I Don’t Like Mondays”. She doesn’t like it — she prefers something called “Pumped Up Kicks”. She brought the conversation to “My Beautiful Mind”.

nk (875f57) — 9/16/2013 @ 8:02 pm

The idea that mass shooters are almost exclusively White is a media fiction.

Steve57, I guess it’s a case of such crimes being committed by a disproportionate number of people in one group compared with the other. The percentages flip around when it comes to the background of those involved in typical street crimes.

I’m quite sure Obama views the rampage in a different light since the victims and perpetrator can’t be Trayvon-Martin-ized and George-Zimmerman-ized.

As for that CNN news anchor, I was going to mention her in my previous post but decided to throw a bit of benefit of the doubt her way, since I’m not really sure if her ignorance is feigned or not, political or not, or — and this may reflect worse on such people — if it’s rooted in the type of come-see-come-saw forgetfulness that kind of parallels the deranged emotions on display at Paul Wellstone’s politicized memorial in Minnesota or the “give a shout out” inappropriateness of Obama after Fort Hood.

Mark (58ea35) — 9/16/2013 @ 8:06 pm

No gun is good gun!

inanimate objects do not possess attributes such as “good” or “bad”.

people, OTOH…

redc1c4 (abd49e) — 9/16/2013 @ 8:07 pm

223. 216. May have issues. It probably should not have a gun.

Comment by Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 9/16/2013 @ 8:02 pm

It probably should not have internet access. I wonder if the people in charge of the group home know?

Steve57 (6f26ff) — 9/16/2013 @ 8:09 pm

Steve57, I guess it’s a case of such crimes being committed by a disproportionate number of people in one group compared with the other. The percentages flip around when it comes to the background of those involved in typical street crimes.

Uh-uh. The percentages seem reasonable when it comes to nutcases. Blacks are only about 13% of the population. The disproportion, 50+% if you believe Eric Holder’s arrest statistics, is in murders that include, like you say, street crimes.

nk (875f57) — 9/16/2013 @ 8:16 pm

While the intelligentsia dawdles away on how inanimate objects should be outlawed, I really have to ask how is our nation is prepared to help the mentally ill?

If the federal government can not prevent a sick person from committing a heinous crime, how is it prepared to provide for our health care?

And, why is health care a federal project?

Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 9/16/2013 @ 8:19 pm

==If the federal government can not prevent a sick person from committing a heinous crime, how is it prepared to provide for our health care?
And, why is health care a federal project?==

Ag80–a navigator will contact you shortly and will answer all your questions and allay your concerns. Just lay back, relax, and let it happen.

elissa (bf3931) — 9/16/2013 @ 8:24 pm

As instapundit says, it’s Potemkin villages all the way down as I watch “Battleship Potemkin” on TMC.

Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 9/16/2013 @ 8:37 pm

It appears Alexis was employed as a civilian contractor in Washington. Politico reports he worked for a Hewlett Packard-related company called The Experts, and a guest on Greta Van Susteran’s show said his sources said Alexis had been staying at a nearby Residence Inn.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 8:39 pm

Time Magazine exclusive:

A soon-to-be-released government audit says the Navy, in an attempt to reduce costs, let down its guard to risks posed by outside contractors at the Washington Navy Yard and other facilities, a federal official with access to the report tells TIME.

The Navy “did not effectively mitigate access-control risks associated with contractor-installation access” at Navy Yard and other Navy installations, the report by the Department of Defense Inspector General’s office says. Parts of the audit were read to TIME by a federal official with access to the document.

The risks resulted from an attempt by Navy officials “to reduce access-control costs,” the report finds.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 8:44 pm

DRJ: Well, it certainly seems the federal government is up on things, so we can rest easy.

Honestly, though, this is not a President Obama problem.

It is our problem by who we elect and by the power our elected officials delegate to bureaucracy.

Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 9/16/2013 @ 8:55 pm

233. Sounds a little bit like Benghazi, 2012.

Sammy Finkelman (e0f80a) — 9/16/2013 @ 9:02 pm

At the time of the CS Evening News, 6:30 pm, Eastern time, they were still keeping open the possibility there was more than one gunman.

Sammy Finkelman (e0f80a) — 9/16/2013 @ 9:06 pm

Ag80,

Not only will the Democrats blame guns for this incident, but now they’re also going to blame Republicans for the sequester “budget cuts” that they will claim let this happen.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 9:07 pm

Let’s assume this leaked IG report is accurate and the Navy’s cost-cutting decisions led to weak security re: civilian contractors. Sequestration hit the military hard and that’s why the conventional wisdom was the GOP would cave on the sequestration cuts.

I expect the Democrats will hit this hard because the Republicans on Capitol Hill are sensitive about this topic. They will want to restore funding to the military, and this could be the Democrats’ chance to get all those cuts reversed.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 9:12 pm

I wouldn’t put it past the MFM to blame the sequestration for something that took place before it was ever even proposed.

Among the bits of technology the MFM can’t seem to grasp is how to work a calendar.

Steve57 (6f26ff) — 9/16/2013 @ 9:18 pm

blaming the GOP for any of this ignores the reality that “sequester” was the idea of TFG in the Oval Office.

JEFH has money for concerts in the White House, and multiple vacations, but no funding for security or tourist visits.

redc1c4 (abd49e) — 9/16/2013 @ 9:20 pm

Actually they don’t care about the truth, never forget that;

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/09/palin-firefighter-copyright-lawsuit-complaint-no-proof-of-fundraising-off-photo/

narciso (3fec35) — 9/16/2013 @ 9:22 pm

He has a New York City backgrund, but most or all of the people in New York who knew him haven’t seen him in years.

His father claimed he was suffering from Post Traumatic Strees Syndrome as a result of being at Ground Zero on Sept 11 (he was actually at the Borough of Manhattan Community College which is very close and which the smoke cloud reached – not clear if he tried to help.)

The first shooting incident where he got arrested was in 2004 when he shot out some tires. This had something to do with being angry at a construcion worker. Or maybe rather, angry at not having a parking space. He claimed he had an anger-fueled blackout. Maybe this is where September 11, 2001 was brought up. Charges were dropped.

The second was in 2010 when he fired a gun that went through the floor on his apartment into his downstairs neighbor’s ceiling. He had been argung with her because she was complaining about him making noise.

Not sure I have that right about the living situation. Maybe it was a house. Maybe he lived downstairs, not upstairs. Maybe he was the one complaining about noise, not her. It was classified as firing a weapon within city limits and charges were dropped.

Aaron Alexis claimed he’d been cleaning his gun while cooking. The Ft. Worth police officer who interviewd him asked him him why he did not call the police or check on the neighbor himself, and he replied that he did not think the bullet went through because he could not see any light through the hole. Te gun in fact had been taken apart and was covered in oil when the polioceman saw it..

The woman thought it was aimed at her – it came through the floor close to where she had been sitting – but there was no way to prove it was done on purpose. She moved out.

Nobody knows any recent issues but a couple of months ago he claimed he had been stiffed (not paid) by what could be a government contractor. He now had another job.

Sammy Finkelman (e0f80a) — 9/16/2013 @ 9:30 pm

Alexis was also arrested in Georgia in 2008. That makes 3 arrests in 7 years. I’d think an arrest record would be a problem for civilian contractors in this economy. Apparently not.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 9:35 pm

Now his Texas friends are telling stories that aren’t as positive as the original reporting.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 9:38 pm

I wouldn’t put it past the MFM to blame the sequestration for something that took place before it was ever even proposed.

An overstatement on my part. But not by much. It would be entirely more accurate to suggest I wouldn’t put it past the MFM to blame the sequestration for something that took place before it ever even took effect.

The Pentagon IG investigation didn’t start until September 2012, months before the sequester took effect. Indeed, at that point in the campaign the Obama administration was illegally pressuring defense contractors NOT to notify employees of potential lay-offs as required by federal employment law because that could have hurt them in the November election. So they offered to cover the companies’ legal expenses arguing it wasn’t a sure thing the sequestration would even occur.

Yet now they’re going to make the case the sequestration that wasn’t even a sure thing in September 2012 was responsible for security cuts that took place before September 2012.

They really, really think we’re stupid. The scary thing is in the aggregate they may be right.

Steve57 (6f26ff) — 9/16/2013 @ 9:42 pm

Comments about Alexis from a Washington Post article:

“I asked him, ‘Why you quit the job with the government?’ ” Somsak said. “He said, ‘Somebody doesn’t like me.’ ”

Somsak left it there, he said, because “I don’t want to go too deep with him.”

Alexis visited the center about twice a week and was known as a quiet, if tightly wound, participant, a temple staff member said.

“He would help people if they came in carrying heavy things,” said J. Sirun, an assistant to the monks. “From the outside, he was a quiet person. But on the inside, I think he was very aggressive. He did not like to be close with anybody, like a soldier who has been at war.”

Sirun said he avoided Alexis, who preferred to keep to himself. But Alexis was no loner; he had many Thai friends and spoke Thai “very well,” Sirun said. “He understood about 75 percent of the language.”

Customers saw him studying Thai at a table there during his off hours. Alexis stopped showing up at the Buddhist center early in 2011, he said. “I didn’t think he could be this violent,” he said. “I would not have been surprised to hear he had committed suicide. But I didn’t think he could commit murder.”

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 9:44 pm

Hope and Change, Congressional Edition.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/16/2013 @ 9:50 pm

I can hardly wait for the “15 years ago I could have been Aaron Alexis” speech from Barack Obama.

What with Aaron looking like Trayvon and all. Then going to South East Asia to study at schools teaching a religion other than Christianity.

Then the blame shifting.

The woman told police officers that she had called several times about Alexis being too loud but that nothing had been done. She said he had confronted her a few days earlier in the complex’s parking lot, where he complained that she had been making too much noise.

But I won’t hold my breath.

Steve57 (6f26ff) — 9/16/2013 @ 10:04 pm

Honestly, though, this is not a President Obama problem.

It is our problem by who we elect and by the power our elected officials delegate to bureaucracy.

Ag80 you are 100% correct. Even if Barack Obama were to resign today and be replaced by Ted Cruz, we would still suffer under the burden of an unaccountable, unmanageable, inhospitable federal bureaucracy. What can be said when the handful of designated scapegoats in Benghazi are simply reassigned to a different desk in the State Department? Or when a lying IRS head goes on paid leave, lawyers up, and users her influence to stymie an investigation into her group’s wrongdoing? Our nation is largely run by the permanent paper-shufflers in a manner that would have made the Soviet commissars green with envy. Until we cut that gordian knot and start returning responsibility to the citizen, we will continue our descent into mediocrity.

JVW (93c84b) — 9/16/2013 @ 10:18 pm

I’d think an arrest record would be a problem for civilian contractors in this economy. Apparently not.

Of course.

We live in the age of insanity, so Alexis is sort of a fitting mascot for this moment in time. He was mentally unstable and therefore, natch, bogged down by grotesquely poor judgment (to say the least) and an inverted sense of the world.

But lousy, corrupted judgment and an upside-down reality abound in today’s America, so someone like an Aaron Alexis can easily stroll into the middle of the scene, high five everyone, engage all the bigwigs swooning at the altar of political correctness run amok, then stroll right on out the door, leaving a pile of wreckage in his wake.

Mark (58ea35) — 9/16/2013 @ 10:38 pm

I can hardly wait for the “15 years ago I could have been Aaron Alexis” speech from Barack Obama.

In this topsy-turvy world we’re trapped in today, I wouldn’t put it past Obama one second to Travon-Martin-ize the killer. To make today’s bloody rampage a sort of transposed version of that event in Florida. So I can easily see Obama using Alexis as another one of his officially designated martyrs, as another figure who, in this instance, represents the heroic struggle against heartless sequestration and mean-spirited budget cuts.

Mark (58ea35) — 9/16/2013 @ 10:53 pm

What was Aaron Alexis’ least favorite color?

redc1c4 (abd49e) — 9/16/2013 @ 11:56 pm

Red, White, and Blue?

Yoda (c1642d) — 9/17/2013 @ 1:22 am

“Navy”… Duh. 😎

redc1c4 (abd49e) — 9/17/2013 @ 1:45 am

in other news, while preparing to use this event as another excuse to attack our right to self defense, Obumbles applys his “Fast & Furious” methods to Syria

http://washingtonexaminer.com/obama-waives-ban-on-arming-terrorists-to-allow-aid-to-syrian-opposition/article/2535885

what could possibly go wrong with this?

redc1c4 (abd49e) — 9/17/2013 @ 1:47 am

Nothing is ever his fault,

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/from-newtown-to-navy-yard-unpredictable-calamities-upend-obamas-second-term/2013/09/16/3df366a6-1f04-11e3-8459-657e0c72fec8_story.html?hpid=z6

narciso (3fec35) — 9/17/2013 @ 5:04 am

They used to call this, speaking truth to poewr;

http://twitchy.com/2013/09/17/joan-walsh-has-brush-with-gun-control-self-awareness-beclowns-self-over-garry-kasparov/

narciso (3fec35) — 9/17/2013 @ 5:10 am

Why can’t he just eat his waffle?

nk (875f57) — 9/17/2013 @ 5:12 am

First Snowden and now Alexis. There’s a problem with clearances for civilian contractors, especially computer and IT contractors.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/17/2013 @ 6:35 am

He is a victim of circumstance, narcisco.

JD (041c6d) — 9/17/2013 @ 6:50 am

Although I’m not sure how to fix it. Alexis apparently passed background checks for the Navy, a gun purchase, and a CCW permit despite his arrests. I guess an arrest record isn’t the problem it used to be. Perhaps that’s a side effect of a society that makes everything a crime.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/17/2013 @ 6:52 am

Although I’m not sure how to fix it. Alexis apparently passed background checks for the Navy, a gun purchase, and a CCW permit despite his arrests. I guess an arrest record isn’t the problem it used to be. Perhaps that’s a side effect of a society that makes everything a crime.

How many convictions did he have?

Michael Ejercito (b371e1) — 9/17/2013 @ 6:54 am

Shooter took guns from downed guards? Time to close the Castle Wolfenstein loophole!
–Tamara K.

SPQR (768505) — 9/17/2013 @ 7:00 am

None that I know of, but arrests used to matter for positions of trust, if only to warrant further inquiry.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/17/2013 @ 7:01 am

“Low-hanging fruit” may not be entirely Bill Maher “unpatriotism”. It may be that it’s 1) the candidate pool to begin with and 2) the lowered criteria for selection in order not to create “disparate impact” on “disadvantaged groups”.

nk (875f57) — 9/17/2013 @ 7:25 am

This guy caught breaks he shouldn’t have caught for his arrests, and he never forgave anyone for it either.

What I mean is he deeply resented the administrative ding he got from the Navy – the promise of which probably affected the prosecutors decision not to go forward- and resulted in a general discharge.

His family fell all over themselves (ok his dad, anyway) making excuses for him when he blasted a weapon at the construction workers car. Did they press him to get help? He left and dropped contact with his family. How dare you think of me as damaged?

Catching breaks is bad for the mentally ill or personality disordered. They need unequivocal rebuke and a sense they are not going to get away with their outbursts…not a sense that they can dupe the dopes because they are so wily and special. They need a clear message that they have not only been completely in the wrong but that they can’t get away with it, that they have no such power over others, that they are smarter or underappreciated or clearly underestimated.

He was allowed to nurse a sense of his duty and right and to restore the right order of things whenever he felt put out. BAD.

Sarahw (b0e533) — 9/17/2013 @ 7:30 am

AP reports he was getting disability checks. Happy Bowl pal was given to understand they were for some “problem with [Alexis’] feet”.

AP says “US Govt officials” say

Alexis had been suffering a host of serious mental issues, including paranoia and a sleep disorder. He also had been hearing voices in his head, the officials said. Alexis had been treated since August by the Veterans Administration for his mental problems, the officials said. They spoke on condition of anonymity because the criminal investigation in the case was continuing.

Sarahw (b0e533) — 9/17/2013 @ 7:37 am

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NAVY_YARD_SHOOTING_SUSPECT?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-09-17-08-20-37

Sarahw (b0e533) — 9/17/2013 @ 7:38 am

According to the Washington Post (scroll down), the Navy corrected an earlier report that Alexis received a general discharge. The Navy had sought a general discharge based on 8 incidents of misconduct, including being jailed in Georgia in 2008. But when Alexis asked to be released, he was processed out with an honorable discharge.

It’s hard for me to understand why all these red flags didn’t trigger concerns about Alexis’ behavior. It sounds like these background checks are all on paper, and there is no human follow-up.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/17/2013 @ 7:39 am

Why is anyone – military contractor or otherwise – giving a person with auditory hallucinations a security clearance?

Why is not a weapons permit immediately revoked upon such a report of paranoia and auditory hallucinations?

That should be enough. It should be mandatory at least for the short term until the illness is fully investigated and understood as treatable (as in some mental illness brought about by another condition or disorder, and resolved completely and permanently).

Sarahw (b0e533) — 9/17/2013 @ 7:43 am

They let him have the honorable discharge so he could keep his VA benefits, maybe?

Sarahw (b0e533) — 9/17/2013 @ 7:44 am

At least the Navy decided to get rid of Alexis. That’s more than the Army did with Hasan. But it’s reminiscent of what happens with corporations that are afraid to defame the employees they let go for cause, so everyone gets a good recommendation when they leave.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/17/2013 @ 7:45 am

The security clearance was in July and Alexis reportedly sought mental help from the VA in August. That probably wasn’t a coincidence. The only way to stop Alexis from getting a clearance was if his past history of misconduct and arrests triggered further inquiry.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/17/2013 @ 7:47 am

I think they understood he was a “problem child” and was so for reasons probably beyond his complete control. A general discharge is one way to get rid of a troublemaker, and they can always apply to the VA to get full Tx benefits in spite of the general discharge. But maybe Alexis’ agreement to go and the understood need for services let to a mercy discharge skipping some delay in treatment.

Sarahw (b0e533) — 9/17/2013 @ 7:49 am

Seeking medical help, including mental health assistance, is still confidential. And if a patient’s permits are pulled (and why limit it to guns?), it discourages people from seeking help.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/17/2013 @ 7:51 am

And no AR-15 involved, either. http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/17/us/ar-15-gun-debate/?hpt=hp_t1 He had a shotgun and two handguns that he probably got from guards he killed. But nothing like hunting chimeras made of straw. When I was young it was the Uzi, then it was the AK-47, and now it’s the AR-15. When I was even younger, it was the Saturday Night Special. And even younger still, the switchblade. I can’t wait for the next bete noir of the hoplophobes. If it comes with walnut or maple, I might even buy one.

But that’s pretty good shooting with handguns and a shotgun, you have to admit.

nk (875f57) — 9/17/2013 @ 7:51 am

I read elsewhere in a comments section that the Navy was trimming the rolls somewhat and quickly got rid of some people by allowing them to be part of that raft of honorable discharges.

I wouldn’t know much about that. It would have been an opportunity to be merciful. (Which he never forgave them for).

Sarahw (b0e533) — 9/17/2013 @ 7:53 am

DRJ, It shouldn’t be. Paranoia and hearing voices is enough to pull anybody’s permit for the short term.

It should be mandatory.

Sarahw (b0e533) — 9/17/2013 @ 7:54 am

I guess an arrest record isn’t the problem it used to be.

Why should it? We live in an age of insanity, of both an Aaron Alexis and the people in positions of decisionmaking authority. In effect, we’re 0 and 2.

So what possibly can go wrong? I mean what happened yesterday is so surprising, so unexpected, so difficult to prevent.

cfif.org, February 2013:

Screen for felony convictions, and you may be sued. That’s an actual warning to American employers, courtesy of the Obama EEOC. According to its memorandum, employers now face a paradox. On the one hand, if they screen an applicant on the basis of felony conviction, the EEOC may sue. On the other hand, if they ignore the warning signs and hire an applicant despite a felony conviction, victims of employee misconduct may sue.

Exacerbating matters, this constitutes another example of an Obama regulatory agency acting beyond the parameters of federal law.

Federal courts have specifically held that employers may refuse employment to convicted felons, on the basis of both business necessity and risk to property and safety. Moreover, the EEOC admits on its own website that, “There is no Federal law that clearly prohibits an employer from asking about arrest and conviction records.” It continues, “However, using such records as an absolute measure to prevent an individual from being hired could limit the employment opportunities of some protected groups, and thus cannot be used in this way.” In other words, it’s not federal law that matters. What matters is the Obama Administration’s ideological agenda – not to mention more jackpot justice opportunities for plaintiffs’ attorneys who constitute such a core element of the Obama donor coalition.

So how does the EEOC justify this overreach? Its legal fig leaf is the legal concept of “disparate impact” liability. That dubious doctrine holds that an otherwise innocent employment practice can nevertheless trigger liability because it has a statistically disproportionate “adverse impact” upon one racial, gender, religious or ethnic group or another.

Neither logic nor law, however, seem to deter the EEOC: “African-Americans and Hispanics are incarcerated at rates disproportionate to their numbers in the general population… National data, such as that cited…supports a finding that criminal record exclusions have a disparate impact on race and national origin. The national data provides a basis for the Commission to further investigate such Title VII disparate impact charges.”

A big shout out to all the Nidal Hasans of American society, a big shout out to all the anti-gun laws throughout this nation!

Mark (58ea35) — 9/17/2013 @ 7:54 am

Drj, but all would have been better off if he had simply been convicted for maliciously shooting the tires of the construction worker, and that conviction prevented his access to weapons in the future.

Sarahw (b0e533) — 9/17/2013 @ 7:55 am

Pulling the permit may stop further gun and ammo purchases. It’s not likely to send police around to confiscate the ones already purchased.

nk (875f57) — 9/17/2013 @ 7:55 am

He left the Navy in 2011. Apparently he worked for a contractor in Japan for some period of time and was starting work in Washington this month. His work history is full of periods where he worked separated by periods where he lived with family (reportedly in Seattle and Georgia) and didn’t work or worked sporadically.

One of the basics of background checks is to get a list of every place some one has lived and the time periods they lived there. Unusual patterns and frequent moves are supposed to trigger further inquiry.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/17/2013 @ 7:55 am

I think the Seattle charge was a misdemeanor so I’m not sure what impact it might have had on Alexis, plus my guess is the complainant was an illegal immigrant who didn’t press charges. And if you read the Seattle police report, Alexis was issued a gun permit incorrectly. He didn’t provide the required ID but the issued it anyway. Also, it’s not clear he ever got a gun permit in Texas.

It’s not just federal and military bureaucracies that failed here.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/17/2013 @ 8:01 am

I’m pretty sure there was not a foot disability. Not 100%, but it’s natural to suspect his disability was related to his mental state. If so, there would have been some record of his condition.

Shouldn’t an ordinary security clearance, even by a contractor, include someone’s deeper military record and not just his discharge label? Shouldn’t any disability payments or VA treatment for mental issues be included?

Sarahw (b0e533) — 9/17/2013 @ 8:01 am

It is insanity not care about someone’s criminal record.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/17/2013 @ 8:04 am

THe prosecutor should have pressed charges, and not just for vandalism, but whatever weapons charge applied. It’s not normal to shoot out tires in a professed “blackout rage”. That person is a danger to all. NO CCW for you. Ever.

The PTSD 9/11 sob story was enough to soften the hearts of all I guess but that’s a shame.

Sarahw (b0e533) — 9/17/2013 @ 8:04 am

I sympathize with your point, Sarahw, but I think the conventional medical wisdom is that it’s better to confidentially provide mental health treatment than to use treatment as a reason to pull gun and DL permits. The debate has gone on for decades and was revisited after the Virginia Tech and Aurora CO shootings.

The medical consensus has prevailed that it must be confidential or people won’t seek treatment. The only exception is if the treating physician believes a patient poses a future threat, but the professional who treated the Aurora shooter did report him to authorities prior to the shooting and nothing happened.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/17/2013 @ 8:10 am

You can’t file charges and get a conviction without a witness, and the Seattle prosecutor says they never even saw the case.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/17/2013 @ 8:12 am

I don’t think the 9/11 story was the reason Alexis walked on the Seattle charges. I think it was the lack of a complaining witness.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/17/2013 @ 8:13 am

Repspectfully to you, and not so much to the “consensus” – any diagnosis of paranoia and auditory hallucinations should be a trigger to immediate action.

What degree of confidentiality is possible besides revocation of right to purchase, right to carry, etc, should be maximised, but it can be no more a deterrent to treatment than the threat of being green-warranted.

Mental illness is mistaken for ordinary jerkiness, denied, minimised or excused, even when really anti-social and outlandish behavior results from it. It’s nearly impossible to force treatment or remove the person from general society except through the criminal justice system. But it’s also apparently too high a bar to to keep such person from getting weapons or a security clearance. There has to be a willingness to acknowledge what is and deal with it.

Sarahw (b0e533) — 9/17/2013 @ 8:23 am

DRJ, the psych who saw the Aurora shooter reported him to Univ of Colo police to bar him from campus but did not do anything to alert LEO to his detailed threats, nor do anything to have him put on a 72 hour hold.

SPQR (768505) — 9/17/2013 @ 8:29 am

Dad explained it to detectives, if IIRC.

Someone gave the guy a break. Reading between the lines, Dad apparently agreed to pony up for the damaged tires.

Alexis got a break he never should have been permitted.

What happened, happened, but they did it wrong. He should not have been allowed to admit he shot the tires, to say he had amnesia about it for an hour because he was in a blind rage, and to mouth paranoid ideas about being “mocked or dissed” by others whose story is that they never even spoke to him, without that triggering some intervention.

All I can think is that “he’s getting help” was on the table and that excuses his mental issues helped it go away.

Who needs a witness? There is a car, an admission, and shot out tires. That’s enough.

No, he caught a break he never should have been permitted. He was dangerous, and that needed to be on his permanent record for all to see.

Sarahw (b0e533) — 9/17/2013 @ 8:29 am

Yes, but I count them as law enforcement, SPQR. Maybe they don’t think of themselves that way but I do.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/17/2013 @ 8:31 am

DRJ, you are right that they are fully sworn LEO and state employees, but they often act like door rattlers.

SPQR (768505) — 9/17/2013 @ 8:32 am

Sarahw, he probably wasn’t “given a break” so much as the responding officers didn’t bother to do the work required to get a prosecutable charge.

SPQR (768505) — 9/17/2013 @ 8:33 am

Mental health issues are tricky, Sarahw. I think such rules would be abused by authorities who would use them as an excuse to lock up or deny the rights of people who oppose government policies. Take the IRS and Bloomberg’s and Michelle’s nanny-state rules, and imagine the results.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/17/2013 @ 8:36 am

It looks like the Seattle PD did the work from the police report, because they collected shell casings, took witness statements, located the gun, and got a confession. But I have a feeling they felt bad for the complaining witness and helped him get restitution instead of a conviction.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/17/2013 @ 8:40 am

The victim in Seattle didn’t speak English, worked as a day laborer in construction, and drove an 18 year old car. Where I live, that suggests he was an illegal immigrant. The last thing he wanted was to work with the police. All he wanted was the money to fix his tires and wheels.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/17/2013 @ 8:43 am

CNN decries use of AR-15 shotgun in the crime.

Colonel Haiku (7865e7) — 9/17/2013 @ 8:51 am

Who won’t the Feds give a high level security clearance?

Colonel Haiku (7865e7) — 9/17/2013 @ 8:53 am

Colonel Haiku, who was it that had “AR 15 Shotgun” ? Was it that POS snake Piers Morgan?

SPQR (768505) — 9/17/2013 @ 8:55 am

One of the side effects of illegal immigration is that immigrants are easy targets for crime, and that undermines a community’s ability to provide law and order.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/17/2013 @ 8:56 am

SPQR – CNN had it on their ticker, in an online story, and on a screen caption.

I want an AR15 shotgun NOW

JD (5c1832) — 9/17/2013 @ 9:05 am

Ill take the plasma rifle in the 40 watt range, thank you very much,

narciso (3fec35) — 9/17/2013 @ 9:09 am

Yep, in the chyron text at bottom of the screen when Jon King was on. Speculation was that Madputz Morgan was the writer, haha.

Colonel Haiku (ee5253) — 9/17/2013 @ 9:09 am

I put this down here, rather than the top thread, because its really only tangential to the subject Crazy here caught a break.

Do not give crazy a break, is my thesis, as it helps no one. Here’s an example of (lame) excuses indulged, and crazy was given another chance.
http://hogewash.com/2013/09/17/a-clarification/

Sarahw (b0e533) — 9/17/2013 @ 9:13 am

We need more gun laws to make these types of shootings against the law. We also need more murder laws. Or whatever.

Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 9/17/2013 @ 9:17 am

He just followed Joe Biden’s advice, and brought a shotgun.

SPQR (768505) — 9/17/2013 @ 9:19 am

security, what security?

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/09/16/202320/security-at-navy-yard-weak-surveillance.html#.UjiA0j_DLFw

narciso (3fec35) — 9/17/2013 @ 9:21 am

I think there’s room for improvement in flagging the mentally ill.

Is this guy better off for having been excused, protected, dismissed as mostly harmless? He’s dead and he took 12 with him.

Sarahw (b0e533) — 9/17/2013 @ 9:52 am

Westboro Baptist Church will picket the funerals.

Michael Ejercito (b371e1) — 9/20/2013 @ 8:02 am

9/16/2013

Open Thread: Navy Yard Shootings

311 Responses to “Open Thread: Navy Yard Shootings”

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