Patterico's Pontifications

9/7/2013

Quiz: Which Government Successfully Funneled $300,000 to the Fort Hood Shooter After His Arrest?

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 6:22 pm

And how did the U.S. allow it to happen?

The latter question is easy to answer when you know the answer to the former question. For you see, the government that gave $300,000 to Fort Hood shooter Nidal Hasan was the government of the United States of America.

The linked story says this was reported earlier this year, but it’s the first I heard of it:

A military panel also ordered that Hasan be stripped of his military pay. However that order will not take effect until place 14 days following his sentencing. Hasan will continue to receive his full military salary until Sept. 10.

Earlier this year, NBC 5 Investigates was the first to report that the Department of Defense showed Hasan had been paid about $300,000 after his arrest for the Nov. 5, 2009, shooting.

After the NBC 5 investigation aired, three U.S. representatives have drafted legislation that would stop military payments to soldiers awaiting trial for major crimes. The money would be returned to the solider if they are acquitted but if they are found guilty the money would go to the victims.

The $300,000 in payments already made to Hasan are unlikely to be returned to the military. However, Army officials could consider launching a “line of duty” investigation to determine if Hasan is liable for the payments incurred for treatment of the injuries he sustained when police responding to the attack shot him. Victims of the attack are also pursuing a civil lawsuit against Hasan.

That’s approximately $23,000 per dead victim.

47 Responses to “Quiz: Which Government Successfully Funneled $300,000 to the Fort Hood Shooter After His Arrest?”

  1. His time in the brig should be counted as “bad time”, as he was not available for duty due to his conduct. As least his victims should be able to sue for damages from his “workplace violence”.

    Roman (3165c1)

  2. Did Hte One ever comment on his possible paternity to Hasan? This might explain the Army’s implicit endorsement of his behavior. Also, should we look for the AG to begin procedings against the responding (civilian) police officers to recover the costs of Hasan’s hospitalization? After all, they could have shot to knock the weapons out his grasp instead of the head and torso shots they took. It happened all the time in Hopalong Cassidy, and is no doubt routine procedure in the home land security training.

    bobathome (56b1d2)

  3. one of the very very very VERY rare times I will say, I wish the cops had blasted this @$$hole straight to hell.

    Ghost (476943)

  4. I guess I can’t be surprised about this. Teachers in the Los Angeles Unified School District (and all across America, for that matter) who embezzle funds or molest children continue to collect their pay during their investigation and trial, even if it stretches on for years. In a number of cases which don’t involve serious crimes (like child molestation), they often settle with the accused and pay a year or two of severance pay in return for a voluntary resignation.

    JVW (23867e)

  5. Truly sad that he victims, all government trained shooters, were not allowed to shoot back. It would be interesting to see where the $300k went.

    htom (412a17)

  6. Is there an opportunity for civil litigation on the part of his victims? That would suck up the $300K in about 9 days just for attorney fees.

    navyvet (02dd07)

  7. Yoda knew this he did! On Fox News, saw it about a month ago he did while getting ready for Jedi Master work! Pont’s (may I call you Pont? 😆 ) favorite lady Fox News correspondent, Megan Kelly, quite upset about it she was!

    Yoda (04dfe5)

  8. Innocent until proven guilty, you know. Even though it’s ridiculous in this case because there’s not slioghtest bit of doubt about it. Whatever is going on is general policy. Maybe it might be nice to figure out something that would make more sense.

    I don’t know what he used the money for – he has no dependents, and he’s been locked up in jail all this time.

    Sammy Finkelman (107dde)

  9. htom, at some point all Army bases were designated “gun free” zones.

    Can you imagine? Ft. Hood a gun free zone! These trained soldiers were forced to defend themselves by throwing chairs at this maniac!

    The idiocy of this movement is astounding.

    Patricia (be0117)

  10. This was indeed reported long ago. On the list of things that trouble me about this shooting and its implications for our nation, this doesn’t make the top 50.

    Beldar (ede7a0)

  11. Random thoughts. Somewhere around the house I have a registration card from Naval Air Station North Island with the serial number of the Colt Combat Elite I used to have.

    Back in the early 90s the Navy’s ‘tude was that you ought to be able to practice with your personal weapons on the range.

    Now it’s like a feminist version of Greenpeace.

    Steve57 (35dd46)

  12. 10. This was indeed reported long ago. On the list of things that trouble me about this shooting and its implications for our nation, this doesn’t make the top 50.

    Comment by Beldar (ede7a0) — 9/8/2013 @ 8:22 am

    Think Patton and his ivory handled .357. It seems to me what you want in a military is to cultivate people who are comfortable in a confrontation. Patton was an Olympian who competed in the modern Pentathlon. He also was the Army’s swordmaster.

    The Navy’s not the Army. But what you want is a submarine skipper or a fighter pilot who will turn nose on and face the threat.

    In fact, that’s a lesson the Navy learned in WWII. The peacetime Navy promoted people who didn’t take risks. Didn’t ground the boat. They built a caretaker Navy. By the end of the war all the caretakers were replaced with football players.

    I fear we’re making the same mistakes.

    Steve57 (35dd46)

  13. Nimitz grounded his ship. There are exceptions to the rule.

    Steve57 (35dd46)

  14. Maybe it might be nice to figure out something that would make more sense.

    Don’t count on that happening when the prevailing ethos from the top on down is that Hasan was suffering from the fatigue of “workplace violence.”

    In the near future the US military probably will start encouraging enlistees like Hasan, in order to help them let off steam (and avoid unpleasant murderous rampages), expand their emotional-interpersonal horizons. Military training guide in Obama’s America: “Free sexual expression with your fellow soldiers in the barracks is a good alternative to spending too much time reading the Bible or the Koran.”

    Mark (58ea35)

  15. If paying an obvious killer $300,000 of government money has become so accepted that it doesn’t bother conservatives at a website like this, I think it’s safe to conclude that Americans have given up on caring about — let alone fixing — government waste.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  16. DRJ, letting Nidal Hasan in the Army in the first place is what really upsets me.

    Then there was the jaw dropping decision to keep him after he gave his peers lectures about the jihad he was planning to wage.

    After that, the decision to keep paying him his salary doesn’t surprise me.

    It disgusts me. I definitely don’t like it. It doesn’t surprise me.

    Steve57 (35dd46)

  17. It is disappointing that the military has become so PC that it is afraid to offend Muslims, but we should all be able to condemn government waste like this.

    Off topic but I was watching clips from the G20 and Obama seems to bore easily. His body language reminds me of someone with ADD.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  18. No that’s Putin. Our President instructed us about Putin’s body language.

    Steve57 (35dd46)

  19. Putin’s the one who looks like the bored kid in the class. It’s racist not to think so.

    Steve57 (35dd46)

  20. I’m not “not bothered.” But there are simply lots more things about this terrorist attack and its treatment by the Obama Administration which bother me a whole lot more than this particular.

    No one has ever doubted Maj. Hasan’s guilt, and only the most inflexible death penalty opponents could quibble with the sentence pronounced upon him. But it nevertheless was very important that he be accorded, and be seen to be accorded, due process of law. Until the moment the verdict was returned Maj. Hasan was — in the eyes of the law, and under the Rule of Law he so desperately tried to subvert — still presumed innocent.

    Now if you want to argue in favor of stronger forfeiture laws for those not yet convicted of a crime, make your argument in those terms. If you want to do that with short-cuts to due process — shortcuts you want to apply to everyone, including yourself if you ever stand accused — then we could have that discussion, too. I’ll be hard to convince, but I’ll listen.

    But sometimes bureaucratic rules implemented to protect substantive rights are going to work to the temporarily, and distressing, benefit of very bad, very guilty defendants who’ve not yet been convicted. That’s what this seems to have been to me.

    My “matters of urgent national and international concern” radar screen is already too cluttered, though, to fret in as much detail about this as I do about a great many other things.

    Beldar (ede7a0)

  21. I’m not “not bothered.” But there are simply lots more things about this terrorist attack and its treatment by the Obama Administration which bother me a whole lot more than this particular.

    You’re a good egg, Beldar. It’s a better world that has lawyers like you and Pat in int.

    Steve57 (35dd46)

  22. When figuring out how outraged to be about this, it’s also worth considering that the amount of money we’re talking about here is mostly, perhaps entirely, a function of two things — (1) the length of time between crime and conviction, and (2) the military pay scale for medical professionals with his rank and experience. If he were a buck private who’d continued to receive pay for three weeks before he pleaded out, we’d be talking about a much smaller figure here. Should we be equally as outraged over $2500? Or $250? I don’t have that much outrage to spare these days, in the target-rich environment created by the Team Obama clown-show.

    Beldar (ede7a0)

  23. Let me ask it this way:

    How comfortable are you with giving Eric Holder and his boss the power to make ad hoc decisions, outside due process and the regular rules, regarding the suspension of an as-yet-unconvicted defendant’s pay or other federal benefits?

    Beldar (ede7a0)

  24. You may not appreciate my support, but integrity compels me to ask how much did we spend on convicting this guy?

    Why was this guy an Army officer?

    Steve57 (35dd46)

  25. ==I was watching clips from the G20 and Obama seems to bore easily. His body language reminds me of someone with ADD.==

    But was he being more flexible?

    elissa (6b3fdb)

  26. Steve57, thanks for the kind words. You & I would surely agree, I think, that in hindsight we certainly would have been better off spending money on a court martial for Maj. Hasan long before his rampage. Long before that day, he’d done things that should have put him out of the Army and into Fort Leavenworth’s Military Corrections Complex.

    Certainly your question — “Why was this guy an Army officer?” — is indeed high on my ranked list of more pressing concerns, as is the Administration’s shameful refusal to acknowledge this as a terrorist attack.

    Beldar (ede7a0)

  27. Comment by Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/8/2013 @ 10:49 am

    Why was this guy an Army officer?

    Stupidity. Maybe several different kinds of stupidity.

    Sammy Finkelman (393233)

  28. I think this is a good example of something about lawyers that exasperates laymen and a few lawyers. In a desire to craft rules that work for all — like not taking someone’s pay until they are proven guilty — we end up with results like this. But this is a case where guilt is not only obvious but the defendant is proud of his acts. This case should be an exception to that rule.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  29. Beldar, I disagree my words were kind. We have people on the payroll who are supposed to figure out, say, if Chelsea Branning should be an intelligence analyst. They should be good at it, or they shouldn’t be on the payroll.

    Nidal Hasan slipped by them.

    Steve57 (35dd46)

  30. Look, you can’t discover every John Walker. But come on? How many flares does Nidal Hasan have to light off?

    Steve57 (35dd46)

  31. Steve57, It was obvious. I remain convinced that dozens of his superiors or colleagues had grave concerns about him. But nobody would talk about it or dared to be “the one” to risk his or her career do anything about it. There are plenty of people in the Army who know this and will live with the guilt and regret for the rest of their lives. At least they have lives unlike the people who were needlessly sacrificed.

    elissa (6b3fdb)

  32. What PO’s me, elissa, is that we promote the people who promote Nidal Hasan.

    If the only people who can make it in the military are people who don’t dare to voice their concerns about an obvious murderer, how can we win wars.

    Steve57 (35dd46)

  33. You can’t choose your style of bravery. If you won’t risk your career, you sure as hell won’t risk your life.

    Steve57 (35dd46)

  34. No disagreement from me on any of that, Steve.

    elissa (6b3fdb)

  35. Off topic: Arkansas Police Kill 107-Year-Old Man in Shootout By Daniel Politi | Posted Sunday, Sept. 8, 2013, at 12:51 PM

    David Price, the Pine Bluff Police Department’s public information officer, tells the local ABC affiliate that officers arrived at a home Saturday following reports that Monroe Isadore, 107, pointed a weapon at two people. When police arrived they asked the two victims to leave the house, and approached the bedroom where Isadore was apparently located. Isadore then proceeded to fire shots through the door. No officers were hurt but police requested backup.

    Following negotiations that “continued for some time,” a SWAT team inserted a camera into the room and confirmed Isadore had a gun. The SWAT officers then released gas into the room, which led Isadore to shoot at officers, who then fired back and killed him.

    I wonder what else Monroe Isadore did in his life. Or was he losing his marbles?

    Sammy Finkelman (6f9f42)

  36. Oh we’ll, it was a nice country while it lasted. (I’ve been saying this a lot lately.)

    Funeral Guy (c4b0a5)

  37. Howdy friends
    Yes, this has come up before. A military member pending a court-martial is still a military member, entitled to pay and benefits accordingly. That’s because a military member is either continuing to perform duty, if not confined, or cannot make bail if confined. Without their pay entitlement, their families will suffer real hardship.
    The “outrage” of paying Hassan should be balanced against other cases. I mind an army Master Sergeant who was charged with murder and tried by court-martial after the Panama incursion. He was acquitted. He had not been confined in between. His paycheck sustained him and his family through an ordeal. That policy is what paid Hassan.
    If it’s any comfort, I’m betting nearly all of Hassan’s pay has gone to his attorneys. He has had civlian representation at his court-martial proceedings, until he fired the civilian attorney, and for civil affairs.
    It also sounds like his specialty pay as a physician was probably stopped.
    These policies are for the protection of servicemembers. They have nothing to do with political correctness. Hassan is only one of the most public of figures to collect a large sum while in confinement. Most get a lot less because courts-martial are normally a lot faster than civilian proceedings.

    MT Geoff (a67ef4)

  38. Major Hasan was also “sentenced” to forfeiture of all pay. His salary has been going into accounts which he could not use anyway, so it really makes no difference. It’s not like he was somehow living it up while he was awaiting court martial.

    He was legally innocent until proved guilty, and I’d much rather see that concept honored than worry about a technical paycheck — which he could not use — going to Major Hasan.

    The realistic Dana (3e4784)

  39. If paying an obvious killer $300,000 of government money has become so accepted that it doesn’t bother conservatives at a website like this, I think it’s safe to conclude that Americans have given up on caring about — let alone fixing — government waste.

    Silliness. Innocent until proven guilty. You don’t just cut off service members’ pay arbitrarily without due process. He is getting death after due process.

    Beldar et al. are right.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  40. Major Hasan was also “sentenced” to forfeiture of all pay. His salary has been going into accounts which he could not use anyway, so it really makes no difference. It’s not like he was somehow living it up while he was awaiting court martial.

    He was legally innocent until proved guilty, and I’d much rather see that concept honored than worry about a technical paycheck — which he could not use — going to Major Hasan.

    And there you go.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  41. Remember the Haditha Marines. An atrocity ginned up by an unscrupulous Time journo–to be redundant–and a Baathist posing as an independent reporter.
    To be helpful, the NCIS withheld exculpatory information. Eventually, all sixteen jarheads were exonerated.
    So while the DoD is trying to impress Mother Jones, Rolling Stone, and the editorial board of the NYT, what do the families of these guys do?
    MGeoff. I recall that case, I think. Prisoner came up with a gun and the sergeant shot him. That the one?
    Yeah, the DoD is always ready to throw some junior guys under the bus to impress the hippies. Got a late relation to whom that happened. Army went after him for causing another guy to suicide. Prosecution didn’t let on the kid had been on suicide watch since, at least, getting to Kuwait. That came out at the court of the most senior–E6–guy involved which caused retroactive reductions in penalties for the other four or five involved.
    There was a fund-raiser in his hometown to pay for a defense lawyer to assist his JAG guy.
    Bastards.
    But, anyway, while awaiting trial on fake charges, all soldiers ought to have their pay continue.

    Richard Aubrey (6c93a4)

  42. The general principle seems very sound.
    But with Hassan there really was no “innocent until proven guilty”,
    it was pretty clear from point zero that he was a killer, and at point 0.1 it was clear he had been defending and supporting jihadism for quite some time.

    I think the fact that he was still getting his pay simply rubbed salt into the wound that it was taking so long and that his victims were/are being denied benefits because it was judged to be “workplace violence” rather than a combat-related issue.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  43. I agree with Dana’s excellent point – no reason to scrap a system for someone especially Hasan…

    I would like to point out that Bill Clinton, who through executive order disarmed all officers of the military and that allowed this man to do the damage that he did.

    This was more than the PC that DRJ was concerned – this was ending a 200 year tradition of officers carrying sidearms.

    EPWJ (1ea63e)

  44. Under military rules, Hasan’s pay will not be forfeited for several months and possiblly longer if it is linked to his dismissal, which could be postponed until after his appeals conclude. Had Hasan been a civilian employee, however, his pay could have been docked after just 7 days.

    I agree with MD.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  45. test

    Yoda (ee1de0)


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