Patterico's Pontifications

12/14/2009

Jeff Goldstein Banned Again

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 5:45 am



I tried unbanning him. But now I see this:

I’m going to have a beer, finish watching The Third Man, get a good night’s sleep, then decide in the morning whether or not I wish to destroy a man completely and utterly.

(My emphasis.)

He’s talking about me.

I don’t know about you, but I don’t think a blogger has a duty to host comments from someone who declares he’s out to “destroy” the blogger.

Thus ends Jeff Goldstein’s short-lived ability to comment here. It was fun while it lasted.

UPDATE: Jeff Goldstein in his comments:

I READILY ADMIT TO THREATENING TO BEAT CERTAIN PEOPLE’S ASSES. And you know what? I’d still do it to most of them if we ever met up. So?

Followed by:

Scott Jacobs is one of those guys I mentioned that if I ever met him in person, I’d leave him in a heap, mewling like a baby pussy.

Who wouldn’t pass up the opportunity to have more wit and wisdom like that here?!

189 Responses to “Jeff Goldstein Banned Again”

  1. Dude, I totally called this.

    And now I start the work day completely dependent on caffeine because I was too busy being entertained by this blog to go to sleep.

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  2. Well, I will say this:

    Pat has a more rational process than either CNN and many of the MSM, who will happily provide a forum for Adam Gadan, the Taliban or Amidinijad whose expressed desire is to actually kill a lot of people, including the above helpful, though apparently suicidal, media organizations.

    Why has the argument between Jeff and Pat become so bitter and protracted? Because the stakes are so small.

    (With apologies to Dr. Pepper)

    I’m a racist,
    he’s a racist,
    she’s a racist,
    wouldn’t you like to be a racist too?
    Oppose Obama, be a racist, Oppose Obama, be a racist,
    wouldn’t you like to be a racist too?
    (refrain)

    jack (e383ed)

  3. Does this mean the race blog is over ?

    Just asking.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  4. Parick, get some rest. He was making fun of your threats to destroy him.

    SarahW (692fc6)

  5. You are entering the Twilight Zone,

    where:
    -it doesn’t matter what you say, only what the listener thought you said.
    -it doesn’t matter what you wrote, only how it is interpreted.
    -it doesn’t matter what you think, only what they think you were thinking.
    -it doesn’t matter how words are defined, the definitions are arbitrary, and come with an expiration date.

    Holy crap! This sounds like the meta-data of an Obama speech.

    Jeff Goldstone (e383ed)

  6. Well, certainly if he couples that threat with dishonest attacks, which is what he is engaged in.

    And if he censored you, its hardly his place to whine about you banning him.

    That being said, i suggest that less is more in this debate. you don’t need a few parapraphs to show that the anti-semitism charge is BS. Just show what you said, and be done with it. Anyone who is fair recognizes the difference between the mccain controversy and this phony one.

    Indeed, as i repeatedly ask on the web, how do you know the person in question belongs to the relevant group. Sure the name “Goldstein” is very often jewish, but there is such a thing as conversion, you know? i mean there is little doubt, today, but what about when you wrote the comment? just a thought.

    A.W. (e7d72e)

  7. “Parick, get some rest. He was making fun of your threats to destroy him.

    Comment by SarahW ”

    You know that Jeff lied and called someone an anti semite, playing the race card in the most heinous way. Why defend such a person? Do you support calling people racist? I thought you were passionately and compellingly opposed to that, even when such an accusation wasn’t apparent.

    Jeff indeed is passionately trying to destroy someone. I don’t see how it’s sarcasm when he says things like ‘because fuck you’ or deletes his race card playing, or threatens to break human beings like a toothpick.

    Are you sure you’re right? I think your interpretation of Jeff’s post is wrong.

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  8. AW is right about the most polite and professional and convincing way to argue a point.

    But is patterico seriously attempting to prove anything about Jeff? I think the case was made a while ago, and now he’s just having fun with it.

    And I think if Patterico had not pressed his case aggressively, a lot of assholes were ready to claim the case was concluded in the opposite direction. There is a clique of bloggers who like RSM and Jeff and simply got the facts wrong until the truth was thrust into their face repeatedly. They had to face losing their credibility or admitting they were wrong. I’ve rarely seen as clear an example of the need to get in their faces and repeat the truth.

    But AW and Dana have a point. this isn’t really sinking to Jeff’s level so much as continuing to make a case that is obvious at this point. Jeff’s a weasel.

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  9. I have some advice for both Jeff and Pat:

    Never argue with a pedant; it wastes your time and annoys the pedant.

    And to be honest, it is pissing off the rest of us.

    Jack (e383ed)

  10. Parick, get some rest. He was making fun of your threats to destroy him.

    No. The more comments you read, the more you see he plans some kind of poll where he asks his readers if I am an anti-Semite. Which he believes will somehow “destroy” me, because it will “show” that I am.

    SarahW, we now have Pablo threatening to publish private e-mails he promised to keep confidential. (Where I lash out at Goldstein and use the dreaded f-word and such.) You have this badly wrong.

    Patterico (64318f)

  11. Does this mean the race blog is over ?

    You never know. Could be.

    I can’t think of another part of it that needs blogging, right this second anyway.

    No promises.

    Patterico (64318f)

  12. Jeff, it should piss you off. Why must Patterico defend himself from empty charges of antisemitism? Why must he ban someone who says he’s out to destroy Patterico?

    that’s not his fault, though. He needs to loudly protest the way Jeff is lying about his criticism of RSM’s comment. A lot of people were forced to backtrack their comments about Patterico… if he hadn’t stood up for himself, would you have stood up for him?

    Yes, it is lame that this kind of thing had to be done. If you’re pissed at Patterico for defending himself, I don’t understand you.

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  13. Sorry, not “jeff, it should piss you off” I meant to address Jack.

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  14. Comment by SarahW — 12/14/2009 @ 6:07 am

    The best part was where, over at PW comments, Jeff said that if he met me, he’d

    leave [me] in a heap, mewling like a baby pussy.

    Seriously, the man’s fucking insane.

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  15. Our economy is being crushed by the weight of the federal government. All races, both genders, and all creeds have contributed to this bohemith. Let’s keep our eye on the ball.

    Corwin (ea9428)

  16. I just updated with Goldstein’s physical threat against Scott Jacobs.

    Not sure how well that’ll go over. Scott strikes me as the sort who might follow up on something like that.

    Patterico (64318f)

  17. I’ll not be holding my breath for JeffyG to take me up on my offer of my address, should he wanna make good his “threat”.

    Fuckin’ pussy. Big man, making threats from behind his computer screen.

    Come on, JeffyG… Don’t you wanna prove how cool you are?

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  18. Jeez. What is with Mr. Goldstein? It’s like an old “Hans and Franz” routinee: “…you will cry like a little girl…”

    What’s with the tough guy routine?

    And it’s just plain creepy for Mr. Goldstein to make internet threats. He has had a few of those, and people like me sent him money (and I would do it again) to help protect his family.

    Wow.

    Eric Blair (ddbceb)

  19. Eric, were those e-mailed threats, or threats posted on blogs he doesn’t control?

    If it wasn’t the latter, I think you might have been taken.

    For what it’s worth, I offered to give JeffyG my address, should he wanna go ahead and try to prove his manliness.

    I’m not gonna hold my breath for that request.

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  20. Eric, you’re right. Jeff really ought to know better. He dealt with the very worst the internet could throw at someone, and a lot of people, myself included, supported him (as I think I was obligated to do, since I read his blog a lot).

    Corwin’s right! We have a harder time addressing the realities of the world when people lie about others, forcing a spirited defense.

    Jeff really let us down by forcing Patterico to defend his good name from charges of antisemitism, or force Scott Jacobs to defend his personal sense of security. I’m no internet tough guy, but people can hurt eachother without muscles. There’s a reason Jeff was afraid of Deb F. Scott’s probably safe, but why should we make these calculations?

    Patterico talking about the RSM quote was directly on point with the news of the day. People were mad about racism surrounding coverage of Tiger Wood’s love life, and Patterico made a great point about how to see racism from both political viewpoints. If the right ever needed to have its head out of its ass on racism, now is that time.

    Jeff G could have disagreed with a reasoned blog pots. Instead, he went on a rampage, from blog to blog, lying about Patterico because he sensed a chance for revenge. however, any concept of moral equivalence, because Patterico should have covered the news instead of defend his good name, strikes me as very unfair.

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  21. Provided a little more context for Jeff G’s comment about Scott Jacobs:

    “I READILY ADMIT TO THREATENING TO BEAT CERTAIN PEOPLE’S ASSES. And you know what? I’d still do it to most of them if we ever met up. So?”

    That is what preceded:

    “Scott Jacobs is one of those guys I mentioned that if I ever met him in person, I’d leave him in a heap, mewling like a baby pussy.”

    Patterico (64318f)

  22. All this silly back and forth proves that blogging is detrimental to a wholesome and balanced outlook on modern life in general, and on the campaign to Save the Polyester in particular.

    I blame George W Bush and his lapdogs in the sycophant press. Why can’t these so-called “objective journalists” stop worshiping at the alter of the GOP’s false prophets and give us a descent crossword puzzle for Xmas?

    ropelight (32df13)

  23. Scott, don’t challenge Jeff physically. If he ever comes around just call the police and have him arrested. And then call me and tell me in which jail they’re keeping him.

    nk (df76d4)

  24. All due respect, but I think he’s got some kind of mental condition. He is not in control, and it’s not that hard to find Scott since he’s made a few of his personal situations pretty public.

    You might deal with this kind of thing from day to day, but this is scary. I’m glad no one knows who I am on here, thanks to Jeff’s behavior. It’s going to keep me anonymous. Some people who are on the internet all the time have serious disorders that keep them from socializing, and I wondered if this is why Jeff’s always so off kilter in his humor, or why he takes so many hiatuses.

    People have done horrible things for a lot less. Is Jeff acting like he is in control? I think he realizes he has been humiliated in the his safe haven. I do not mean this to be sneering or superior: we all need to say a prayer for this guy. Some people have real problems with the way their mind functions.

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  25. mmm, why do i get the feeling that jeff’s bravado about beating people up is overcompensating for an, ahem, shortcoming.

    You know, maybe we should all just pity the man. i mean if i was one of those people that viagra didn’t help, i would have anger issues, too.

    [note: fished from spam filter. –Stashiu]

    A.W. (e7d72e)

  26. I READILY ADMIT TO THREATENING TO BEAT CERTAIN PEOPLE’S ASSES. And you know what? I’d still do it to most of them if we ever met up.

    A minor correction…

    Jeffy would try to beat my ass.

    And he would fail.

    But he doesn’t have to take my word for it. He’s such a man, I expect his request for my address to come any minute now.

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  27. I’m not pissed at Pat for defending himself,
    he has every right.

    But at a certain point, and he is way passed it,
    he is just feeding the trolls. I’ve tried to follow this entire argument, but I honestly don’t have the strength.

    My take is that both of these fine men will have to agree to disagree. And find a new bone of contention. It isn’t as though what they say actually matters.

    So lets change the subject. So, picture this headline:

    “Obama Finds Another Bone Of Contention with Repubs”.

    Is the above, by including the word “bone”, a vague reference to witch doctoring? I know what Michael Eric Dyson would say. It’s code. It’s all code.

    But I suspect that both Jeff and Pat would disagree with Dyson.

    Jack (e383ed)

  28. You know, maybe we should all just pity the man. i mean if i was one of those people that viagra didn’t help, i would have anger issues, too.

    Look, if I spent my time feeling sorry for people with tiny dicks, I’d never have the time to shower, I’d be so concerned with most of the left.

    I have bigger problems, man. Don’t add to my work-load. :)

    [note: fished from spam filter. –Stashiu]

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  29. Stashiu

    thanks for the rescue. i realized after the fact that the V word is probably filtered because otherwise we would have a hundred ads… lol

    A.W. (e7d72e)

  30. I don’t care if Jeff Goldstein is banned, unbanned, Japenese, or racist. I thought the RSM threads were interesting (though I have a less charitable view of RSM, given the history, than most), but Goldstein’s just tiresome.

    Or: Brother Fikes was right. This was a counterproductive use of time and energy. Or at least, so says me.

    FWIW,

    –JRM

    JRM (355c21)

  31. Jack, “But at a certain point, and he is way passed it,
    he is just feeding the trolls.”

    I concede you have a point. I think it’s clear that Jeff’s more disturbed than villain. more pathetic than sinister. I think he needs help more than hate at this point.

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  32. I think Sarah has a point and I don’t think Mr. Dustin’s onto anything. Everyone needs a timeout I think and tasty waffles.

    happyfeet (2c63dd)

  33. happy,

    Why can’t I just eat my waffle?

    Nice to see you, btw.

    Patterico (64318f)

  34. “Or: Brother Fikes was right. This was a counterproductive use of time and energy. Or at least, so says me.”

    What’s done is done. Tomorrow is another day.

    Patterico (64318f)

  35. Everyone needs a timeout I think and tasty waffles.

    Sorry, Happy, but I don’t take timeouts after I get threatened by some fuckwit of a blogger who can’t go 5 minutes without misrepresenting the positions of those who don’t agree with him.

    And if you think I’m being overly sensitive or taking this too seriously, or have any sort of defense of that knob-hole JeffyG, then I made a huge mistake in thinking that you were someone who’s opinion I gave a shit about.

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  36. howdy there… I like the part about tomorrow being another day..

    happyfeet (2c63dd)

  37. Scott, I don’t blame you for being pissed, and I don’t doubt you could win a fair fight with Jeff Goldstein. but sometimes attackers do not invite you to a boxing ring and hand you some gloves. I have no idea if this is just empty hate from Jeff or a serious problem. When you tuck your daughter into bed ten years from now, and hear a clatter in your backyard, you’re going to remember this. I think you need to get his behavior on record with his police department. Jeff would do the same if you said this to him. Saying you can take him in a fair fight is not an adequate response, in my opinion. Maybe a short chat with law enforcement would help him take the timeout and waffle break that Happyfeet suggested.

    Happyfeet’s just trying to defuse a situation where someone is freaking out and threatening you. I don’t agree with the equivocation, but I don’t think he meant it to come across like that.

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  38. You know….if a few weeks ago someone had asked me to predict which two conservative bloggers were most likely to erupt in a flame war that would be about as comfortable and dignified as catching your grandparents screwing……..

    [posted at both sites]

    harkin (45912e)

  39. I’m sooooo confused. If I send a check to support Mr. Goldstein and it says: Pay to: Protien Wisdom Moneygrubber’s Defense Fund, will the check clear?

    Evidently, “many” don’t understand intentionalism.

    Or….will I just be thrown in with the “many”?

    Rovin (363536)

  40. A couple of points, Dustin,

    First, the only fair fight is the one that you win. Everything else is relative. Jeffy better not fight fair and clean, because I most certainly don’t.

    Second, I would report it to the authorities where he lives, but JeffyG could live in Zimbabwe for all I know. I don’t know where he lives, nor do I very much care.

    He’s not worth my effort to even learn that much about him, nor would I even consider making the attempt and give that pathetic little toad of a man any reason to distort my desires or intentions and watch him claim that I was stalking him.

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  41. Scott, I saved the link where he threatened me…and then claimed not to. You know, intentionalism and all. One could lose sight of the number of people Goldstein has threatened. Weirdly, there was even one time he got in a message board fight with another bunch of MMA testosterone addicts and he loosed the flying monkeys and threats of physical violence on them too.

    He is not well.

    timb (449046)

  42. He is not well.

    He’d be funny if he were only slightly less pathetic.

    And Timb and I agree upon something. I’m pretty sure that’s one of the signs of the End of Days. I’m gonna go watch for some horsemen now. :)

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  43. This is the guy we felt sorry for when Deb what’shername was cyberstalking his infant?

    Mitch (e40959)

  44. Scott, since you’re not stalking him, you don’t really have the advantage of choosing how to fight him, unfair or otherwise. At least know why he looks like. But I’m not trying to drum up some kind of contest. for all I know, Jeff’s a champion kickboxer with cyborg limbs… he’s still a total prick to threaten someone just for disagreeing on some politics or philosophy. He still loses the argument and all credibility.

    He lives in Colorado. He’s well educated in fiction (not joking). English majors usually are a lot nicer.

    I don’t want to force him to feel the need to prove something. I think you’re arguing with a disturbed person.

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  45. English majors usually are a lot nicer.

    Nah. Most are bitter that they haven’t/can’t write the next Great American Novel, and are doomed to live lives of obscurity and mediocrity.

    If only JeffyG had succeeded even that much, eh? :)

    And I don’t need to choose when to fight him. Trust me – this ain’t my first rodeo. :)

    And he looks like the sort of douchbag who would get chucked out of a bar and then stand across the street hurling insults at the bouncers. Until the Bouncers started to cross the street, and then he’d run off screaming that they were trying to kill him.

    That facial hair in that pic makes him look…

    Well, it makes him look like he drives a van around town, offering free candy to little children.

    And I’m sure that he’s disturbed. I’m quite certain, in fact. That doesn’t change anything. Like Mike Tyson said “when you fight a guy on the street, you don’t ask him what his reach is”.

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  46. I skimmed through the past few posts and have this to say:

    1) There is no chance that you can write anything that cannot be misunderstood. It is an inherent risk of language and people who don’t want to hear what you are really saying. You can only hope that your thought makes it to sufficient reasonable people.

    2) Going after personalities such as SEK, Goldstein and others is a waste of time. If you get sufficiently prominent as Patterico has become, you will draw the attention of lots of people who intentionally misunderstand you. If you spend time addressing each of their “misunderstandings” there won’t be much time to advance your own position. These controversies remind me of the stuff I used to see over at the LGF lizard site. I no longer visit there because that kind of stuff annoys me a great deal.

    What I like to see are posts that inform me of the world at large and provide specific information that I can arm myself with for the battles that count ie going on the offense against big government, liberal media and anything that limits my freedom. It is for this reason I enjoy reading DRJ, Karl and Jack Dunphy. I also enjoy Patterico most of the time and wish he would adopt the language policies of my favorite blogs: Powerline, Hotair, Hugh Hewitt, Instapundit, Biggovernment and Wattsupwiththat.

    Jeff [not Goldstein] (0204be)

  47. I used to read his blog, but that was many moons ago, before he went off the deep end. First LGF, now this – very sad development, two formerly good reads gone to hell over bizarre and quite public personal issues. I wonder if either of them realize just how much damage they’ve done to themselves, and their credibility – but maybe that’s been their real MO all along, and this just slipped the masks off their personas.

    Dmac (a964d5)

  48. Scott, he’s the one fucking with you… by all means you are entitled to say whatever you want to him.

    I minored in English, majored en Phi, and I was not surprised to see that he was an English major. His basic misunderstanding of the validity of competing theories of epistemology or ethics were kinda typical for someone who wants to be an intellectual, but just because he likes the look. digging into things you don’t agree with is what defines an intellectual, in my book.

    And threatening to kick someone’s ass is what defines pathetic. I know he has family, and I hope they are aware of this mental situation Jeff is having, so they can try to keep an eye on him. I take you at your word, Scott, that the last thing Jeff wants is to follow up on his promises of violence. I hope his family can help keep things sane.

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  49. Scott, you received this advice:

    “..When you tuck your daughter into bed ten years from now, and hear a clatter in your backyard, you’re going to remember this. I think you need to get his behavior on record with his police department. Jeff would do the same if you said this to him…”

    The thing is, Mr. Goldstein did have that happen, and did inform the police. And even pursued legal action. Which is why his bluster and threats are so surprising. The macho posturing is just silly, and he should know better.

    If he threatens you again, do report it. After all, he did it himself.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  50. Jeff must be on extra-strong meth today:

    614.Comment by nk on 12/14 @ 10:42 am #

    612.Comment by Jeff G on 12/14 @ 10:23 am #

    [Jeff]How about you, nk? Do I get an invite from you?

    [nk]Only for you to spend ten years in a 6 by 8 foot cell, in Marion, showing your grappling skills to your three cellmates, Jeff. In your place, I would politely decline.

    nk (df76d4)

  51. Once more for good luck:

    This is the stupidest slap fight on the internet.

    Another Chris (2d8013)

  52. “This is the stupidest slap fight on the internet.

    Comment by Another Chris”

    What slap fight? I saw someone point out they were not the anti semite they were accused of being, nor the ‘racist’ accuser they were accused of being. That’s a slap fight? Seems like a case of setting the record straight. The stupid slaps are all coming from one direction.

    Sorry… once someone starts threatening violence, ridicule is appropriate. It’s not stupid to teach that basic lesson to you.

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  53. These controversies remind me of the stuff I used to see over at the LGF lizard site. I no longer visit there because that kind of stuff annoys me a great deal.

    Personally, I’m amazed that LGF became such a pariah only recently. It was fun back in the Rathergate days when I discovered the blog, but about a year after that it became pretty obvious that it had morphed into a simple anti-religon fetish site; back then, Muslims were the targets, but apparently it’s Christians now from what former visitors are saying.

    I’m not a big fan of organized religion myself, but it was obvious to me that Charles Johnson was a one-trick pony living off the legacy of a single moment of glory the same way Al Bundy always bragged about scoring three touchdowns for Polk High School. Dennis the Peasant’s posts on CJ pretty much confirmed I made the right choice to not vist his blog anymore.

    Another Chris (2d8013)

  54. Just to be clear: yes, a nutjob named Deb Frisch wrote crazy sexual and other threats toward JG’s child, not JG. And I don’t believe that there is evidence that Frisch physically stalked JG or his family.

    But I would have thought that JG would be sensitive to internet threats.

    As for the macho stuff, I’m old enough that it is tiresome.

    At the same time, physical threats are serious business. Some people write checks with their mouth (or typing fingers) that they cannot cash. We have all been there.

    I just hope that this all calms down.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  55. What slap fight? I saw someone point out they were not the anti semite they were accused of being, nor the ‘racist’ accuser they were accused of being. That’s a slap fight? Seems like a case of setting the record straight. The stupid slaps are all coming from one direction.

    Sorry, Dustin, but I’ve read the posts going back to the beginning of this whole stupid controversy, and it’s obvious to me that both individuals should have just left well enough alone. I have no problem with Patterico (or Jeff, for that matter) defending their good names if it’s affecting their blog traffic, professional, or personal lives. The fact that this has escalated to the point

    Sorry… once someone starts threatening violence, ridicule is appropriate. It’s not stupid to teach that basic lesson to you.

    Get over yourself. I, along with every other adult, doesn’t need presumptive “lessons” from you when simple observation will suffice.

    There’s no question that Jeff threatening violence is over the line, but it wouldn’t have even gotten to this point if both parties had simply agreed to not speak to or about each other when things started getting ugly months ago. Kudos to Patterico for offering a fig leaf of unbanning him recently as a show of good faith, but the minute Jeff started getting hostile again, he could have simply disengaged, banned Jeff again if he started coming over here and making a troll of himself, and let the whole matter drop. Instead, the result has been a stupid little drama that’s played out over the last few days where both individuals haven’t exactly covered themselves in glory; just because Jeff is acting worse doesn’t excuse Patterico for encouraging the so-called “debate” along.

    At this point, all I’m seeing are two educated, grown-ass men acting like 5th-graders on a playground schoolyard, not mature adults who should know better.

    Another Chris (2d8013)

  56. People have done horrible things for a lot less. Is Jeff acting like he is in control? I think he realizes he has been humiliated in the his safe haven. I do not mean this to be sneering or superior: we all need to say a prayer for this guy. Some people have real problems with the way their mind functions.

    Comment by Dustin — 12/14/2009 @ 7:13 am

    Be careful ‘saying a prayer’ IYKWIMAITYD…

    Some people on the internet aren’t rational.

    carlitos (57cfe1)

  57. oops: The fact that this has escalated to the point shows that both individuals can be held to account for their own respective parts in this little melodrama.

    Another Chris (2d8013)

  58. “If half an onion is black with rot, it is a rotten onion. A man is good, or he is evil.”

    From Gabe at AoS. I like that quote.

    Another Chris, you are talking about the RSM quote? You say you followed it. Are you sure? RSm’s supporters were saying it wasn’t an accurate quote. And then RSM explained why the quote was sensible. It was a live controversy and a great example of being fair about racism on both sides of the political spectrum.

    You think it’s OK to be racist? Because I think it’s fundamentally unAmerican and demands criticism, no matter where it’s from. If RSM had not continued to support it into last week, and his supporters had not been under false impressions about the accuracy of the quote, maybe you’d have a point. Instead it just seems like we had a really insightful and interesting talk about racism, and some people got their feelings hurt and are now acting like thugs.

    We’ll have to agree to disagree. I think this blog has been at its very best lately.

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  59. Pat,
    A while ago I got into it with a Troll (whose name escapes me now) and offered to meet him face to face. This got me a stern warning which thankfully reframed my position and the other clown banned. You’re consistent. Jeff Goldstein is a putz. You’ve banned him. Good let’s move on now and answer pithy questions like:
    “When does the exsistance of the Congressional Black Caucus become racist?”

    pitchforksntorches (12026e)

  60. Pat,
    A while ago I got into it with a Troll (whose name escapes me now) and offered to meet him face to face. This got me a stern warning which thankfully reframed my position and the other clown banned. You’re consistent. Jeff Goldstein is a putz. You’ve banned him. Good let’s move on now and answer pithy questions like:
    “When does the exsistence of the Congressional Black Caucus become racist?”

    pitchforksntorches (12026e)

  61. And you’re calling it a slap fight? And you came here just to announce to everyone that you think it’s stupid? You have nothing to contribute. Go away.

    You hold Patterico to account for this ugliness? That’s pathetic. He proved that he was being lied about. One of the liars is now threatening people. How is Patterico acting like a 5th grader? Someone accused him of being an anti-semite. You’re cool with that kind of lie going unanswered?

    You’re the one coming here to tell all of us we’re ‘stupid’. I don’t need to get over myself. I just want to have discussions about topics that interest me. I don’t tell you what you’re allowed to talk about. My lesson to you is that if you have nothing to contribute, you need to keep your mouth closed and let the adults have a conversation. A lot of interesting points from different perspectives were brought up about whether RSM is a racist, if what he said made sense, what makes something racist, how responsible we are for the things we say, and all sorts of other things.

    You just aren’t comfortable with discussions of racism. It’s a touchy subject for certain levels of people. You think we should all care what you say… in fact you make a point that you’re repeating the same ‘you are all stupid to say anything about this’ comment. You don’t have a contribution, but you’re going to repeatedly tell us not to contribute either?

    When you tell me to get over myself, you are projecting your self important insecurity. All I’m doing is contributing to a comment thread. That’s what you’re pissed off about. Jackass. what’s really funny is that YOU’RE the one dredging RSM back up.

    And yes, you need to learn the basic lesson that it’s proper to ridicule internet tough guys. I will keep explaining this if you need me to.

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  62. First, the Black Caucus is nothing but a bunch of racists.

    Second, people like Mr. Goldstein love to stir the pot, but fills their pants when they meet the person that lets Col. Colt settle the issue.

    PCD (1d8b6d)

  63. Another Chris, you are talking about the RSM quote? You say you followed it. Are you sure? RSm’s supporters were saying it wasn’t an accurate quote. And then RSM explained why the quote was sensible. It was a live controversy and a great example of being fair about racism on both sides of the political spectrum.

    The RSM debate is only a small part of this, Dustin. This spat between them goes back months, to when Jeff got in a snit over Patterico terming Obama “a good man.” Jeff turned the snit into a broader debate over the implications of language, which Patterico accepted, but the debate ended up going from the topical to the personal with accusations and counter-accusations. If you think this is just about RSM, you haven’t been paying attention the last few months. The RSM debate is just the latest chapter in this little passion play.

    You think it’s OK to be racist?

    You’re really going to go there? Patterico was rightly pissed about Jeff calling him an anti-semite, and you decide to double down and imply with a loaded question that I’m racist just because I wasn’t up to my neck in the RSM debate, vigorously denouncing him?

    I didn’t get involved with that conversation because I felt it was simply a proxy for the personal fued Jeff and Patterico have with each other, not the litmus test of understanding this whole passion play. If you truly want to think I’m racist, that’s fine, but I’d love to see your evidence beyond my lack of involvement in a single discussion. If the evidence is there in direct quotes, I’ll be glad to apologize.

    We’ll have to agree to disagree. I think this blog has been at its very best lately.

    Where did I say otherwise? My criticsm is of Patterico’s and Jeff’s continual inability to act like adults in this matter and not continue to bait each other to the point that one of them starts threatening violence. It has NOTHING to do with how I feel about the quality of this blog.

    Another Chris (2d8013)

  64. Oh, I have a cure for Mr. Goldstein. I have this psycho cat at my house. I’ll just throw him into Mr. Goldstein’s closet with him and put a chair to jam the door shut.

    PCD (1d8b6d)

  65. And you’re calling it a slap fight? And you came here just to announce to everyone that you think it’s stupid? You have nothing to contribute. Go away.i>

    Baloney. I’m calling the fight between Jeff and Patterico stupid.

    And no, I’m not going to go away. You’re just going to have to deal with that.

    When you tell me to get over myself, you are projecting your self important insecurity.

    When you think I’m calling everyone in this thread stupid, you’re projecting your own.

    Another Chris (2d8013)

  66. Two words:

    Roid rage

    gahrie (756e3d)

  67. All I’m doing is contributing to a comment thread. That’s what you’re pissed off about. Jackass. what’s really funny is that YOU’RE the one dredging RSM back up.

    What? YOU’RE the one who mentioned RSM to begin with in post #59, not me. I never even discussed the RSM debate until YOU mentioned it. Go back and re-read your posts.

    Another Chris (2d8013)

  68. Dustin, here’s the quote in case you missed it:

    Another Chris, you are talking about the RSM quote? You say you followed it. Are you sure? RSm’s supporters were saying it wasn’t an accurate quote.

    If you will re-read the thread, I didn’t actually bring up the RSM debate, nor did I say anything at all in regards to it until YOU first mentioned it. Please point out where I said “I followed the RSM debate.” What I was referring to was that this fued goes back to the 2008 election, not RSM. You simply saw what you wanted to see there.

    Another Chris (2d8013)

  69. The fundamental problem is that despite their differences, McCain and Goldstein, agreed on the fundamental challenge to the Obama agenda, civilly
    of course, whereas Patterico urged caution, a wait and see effort that ignored the nature of the campaign, and his actual record, illustrated bythe Alice Palmer controversy of ’95, and the Jack Ryan and Blair Hull one in 2004, where Obama seeksto clear the field of any opponent. Now this has been tied up in part by McCain’s friendship with Vincent who in turn was Sarah’s acknowledged collaborator, which CJ and company, tried to use as ammunition, Like I said earlier, it’s not like
    there isn’t anything else at stake at this time.

    bishop (474138)

  70. First, the Black Caucus is nothing but a bunch of racists.

    Second, people like Mr. Goldstein love to stir the pot, but fills their pants when they meet the person that lets Col. Colt settle the issue.

    Comment by PCD

    So true. I can only imagine if there were a congressional white caucus. It’s so startling and pathetic to think that blacks can’t simply be liberals or conservatives and caucus by virtue or policy goals instead of skin color. I am confident we’re getting to the point where being part of such racist organizations is something most folks roll their eyes at… at best.

    Jeff wanted to pronounce this entire debate stupid. As soon as it was pointed out that he had no business telling us what to talk about, he started going nuts, making up more ugly accusations and taking everything way too personally. now, we have a thread about how he threatens people. It’s really sad.

    If people would just let eachother make their best arguments and discuss what they like, these nuts would be much happier and the world would be more peaceful. Jeff could simply have blogged on something he wanted talked about, instead of order us not to talk about this. It’s supremely pathetic to know you’ve lost the arguments, and persist in telling everyone else how stupid it is to have had any argument to start with.

    Some people are oddly demanding that we all take their

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  71. Now that we’re safe from Goldsteinism, can we get back to the blog. These two-minute-hate sessions are taking a toll on many readers.

    Kevin Murphy (3c3db0)

  72. “#

    The fundamental problem is that despite their differences, McCain and Goldstein, agreed on the fundamental challenge to the Obama agenda, civilly
    of course, whereas Patterico urged caution, a wait and see effort that ignored the nature of the campaign, and his actual record, illustrated bythe Alice Palmer controversy of ‘95, and the Jack Ryan and Blair Hull one in 2004, where Obama seeksto clear the field of any opponent. Now this has been tied up in part by McCain’s friendship with Vincent who in turn was Sarah’s acknowledged collaborator, which CJ and company, tried to use as ammunition, Like I said earlier, it’s not like
    there isn’t anything else at stake at this time.

    Comment by bishop ”

    What are you talking about?

    Patterico and Jeff had no impact on the election. You really think it’s PAtterico’s fault that Obama is the president? That he should drop everything and take orders?

    Mccain would have made a lousy president too. It’s a good thing that some hold the right to a high standard… that’s how we avoid more Mccains. The charge that Palin is linked to Robert Mccain to blameworthy levels has been demolished… not my Goldstein angrily insisting we ignore this issue, but by Patterico holding it up to scrutiny.

    Anyone who googles this issue is going to find this blog’s discussion. they will know that RSM said something stupid a long time ago, and that this doesn’t make him radioactive. In other words, by acting guilty… by denying the quote was accurate, or insisting no one scrutinize it critically, it was much easier to think there was something much worse going on. That’s my opinion, anyway. If it really is so bad for Palin to work with someone who worked with someone like RSM, then that’s still OK to discuss. I don’t want any more politicians who can’t withstand scrutiny. Now we know that if Obama brings this up in 2012 that it will amount to nothing… what if that wasn’t the case? What if there was something more to this? I want to know ASAP about that kind of thing.

    anyway, the political calculations it would take to avoid any story that helps Obama would destroy credibility and honor. It was racist to insist that Tiger Woods date blacks. It is racist to be revolted at a black sister in law or call that nonracist natural understandable behavior.

    Bishop, I won’t lie: I prefer to read about racist democrat comments than racist republican ones. I want to see Obama bashed more than I want to see any other kind of blog. But I’m already going to vote against Obama, even if we nominate Jeff Goldstein for the GOP ticket. What about the people who are up for persuasion? An argument can be made that the right political calculation is to be fair and criticize both, in confidence that even this approach favors the right because the right is Right.

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  73. Who’s the nut, really, Patterico called out Goldstein, saying he was not only wrong about it, but insincere. McCain likes to stir the pot, but frankly he doesn’t appreciate being categorized as racist, because of one admitted ill considered set of comments, thirteen years ago, This really does fall into the quintessential circle jerks that first
    Sullivan and now Charles Johnson, seem to settle on,
    which are in itself, a bad version of the argument
    sketch from Monty Python

    bishop (474138)

  74. Can’t we all just get along?

    Rodney King (3e4784)

  75. That’s well said, Bishop. But remember that the point of this was not to prove Mccain a racist. Eventually the point was simply to defend the principle of treating the right and left to the same set of rules, free from lies and threats from people who think they are helping the right by silencing internal criticism.

    That’s such an important point that I think,if that’s the only thing a few people get into their heads, it was worth ten times this headache. We aren’t an army. This is not a war of popularity or even people. It’s about the ideas and ideals of our great nation, such as personal responsibility, freedom, and equal treatment.

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  76. I’ve been trying to follow the events of the past few months between two sights that I’ve followed for some time (It’s a little harder being over in KSA than back home in the USA). I have no problem with individuals that have different opinions discussing them in a respectable manner (regardless if it is in person or through the internet), it seems like people seem to find a form of “Dutch Courage” when doing so on a blog or via e-mail – even going to the point of playing the “race card” or threats of physical violence to individuals or their families.

    From what I’ve been able to put together, Jeff seems to be going through a trying time in his life (loss of revenue from PJ Media, family issues, loss of employment and decisions about his website being a pay site – there may be more). He has also dealt with Deb F. and her threats against his family – and I, like many others, supported him in in taking legal action against her. But to resort to threatening people with violence because they disagree with his viewpoint is a role reversal from what happened a few years ago – and may result in Jeff finding himself in front of a judge as a defendant.

    Patrick, as an officer of the court, seems to know his boundaries in what he posts, but lets this take away from what I come to his blog to read – about events in politics and how the press in LA reports them (I was born and raised in SoCal). I would ask, Patrick, that you remember a Klingon proverb – “Only a fool fights in a burning house” – and go back to posting on those subjects that you feel strongly about.

    I’d like to close this with some “advice” – the Internet will hold on to our posts, and they can be used against up in so many things…in court, for employment or promotion opportunities, and as a weapon by those that wish to “twist” our words from civil discourse to hate and rage – and taht could haunt both of you for years to come. I think a quote from “Bambi” is prudent advice, even in this age – “If you can’t say something nice… don’t say nothing at all.”

    Infadel Mataween (4a9c06)

  77. As a casual observer/reader of this blog, I am getting tired of the side shows. I initially read here because of Patterico’s usually excellent analysis of things, but now with all the side shows, it’s getting tedious trying to find analysis as opposed to pitter patter.

    Andy (b63f79)

  78. But darn it, though, Patterico, you and I, of all people, should know about unemployables with nothing else to do but work out all day. God knows, we have seen enough of them. If not for them, we would be unemployed.

    nk (df76d4)

  79. No, I’m talking after the election, when it was assumed this was Great Society and the Age of Aquarius all over again. Now, I don’t think is serious about going to destroy anyone, just like
    with the armadillo, and the faux transcripts with
    Billy Jack (you mean those weren’t real?) Robert said something frankly indefensible really,and he probably didn’t want to admit how wrong he was. But does that mean he’s racist, no it’s more in his nature as a contrarian.

    bishop (474138)

  80. Jeff should be careful when visiting “shall issue” states.

    AD - RtR/OS! (cc5dea)

  81. And I apologize to you, Patterico, for asking you to invite someone back into your site whom I should never invite into my house.

    nk (df76d4)

  82. And Timb and I agree upon something. I’m pretty sure that’s one of the signs of the End of Days. I’m gonna go watch for some horsemen now

    Look at it from my point of view, Scott. I agree with you and nk and Patterico and Eric Blair and, hell, I was even able to read Dmac and nod my head….this is a totally weird place for me to be on the internet (not in real-life, since every most of my family members makes you guys look like Chomsky).

    So, to end this weird state of affairs, I’m just gonna bring up again: McCain is a racist. His writings defend slavery as an institution, his Freeper posts call the Civil Rights movement “propagandists” with regard to Emmet Till, he compared Harriet Tubman to Goebbels, he wrote an article for American Renaissance magazine which referred to trying to stop white teen pregnancy as “racial suicide.”

    That is not “one comment.” It is more than his despicable opinion on miscegenation (in which he quotes an author who was a member of the CCC). It is a pattern of thought which states that journey this nation undertook from the ’40’s until the present was wrong. It longingly gazes at Jim Crow or the antebellum South with fondness and it is despicable.

    Patterico does not want to call him a racist, because he has no further evidence. But, there’s plenty of it out there.

    Meanwhile, while Patterico makes an honorable stand, Goldstein yokes himself with a racist and then threatens to beat up dissenters. The question is when Goldstein writes assholish stuff, does he INTEND to sound like an asshole or is he an asshole. Long discredited litcrit theorists need to know.

    timb (449046)

  83. Preamble to a rumble

    Best to ya’ll

    TC (0b9ca4)

  84. How can I get on JG’s “hit list?” I feel so left out of things. JG, I am 71, going on 72, and weigh 188 pounds. Please put me on your ‘hit list.’ I will eagerly await your visit. Patterico can get you my address. Born and raised in the Bronx and haven”t lost a “street fight” since I was twelve. Bring a couple of friends to make it even. I have done “three on one” before and won.

    Longwalker (4e0dda)

  85. Bishop, I did misunderstand you. you meant after the election, as in now.

    I maintain my point, though. This site’s ability to sway that election is not worth selling out. It’s basic credibility to hold the right to the same standards. Patterico was bashing Obama for his racist reverend for quite a while. It’s simply a lack of moral clarity to let it slide when Jeff G or RSM plays the race game too.

    RSM handled the criticism with class. I think the charge against Palin’s co-author was greatly weakened when Patterico gave so much scrutiny to RSM’s supposed white supremacy. Such a charge is baseless, instead of hidden.

    Regardless, I think the right needed Jeff G to maintain some honesty, and instead he let us all down by acting like Deb Frisch combined with Al Sharpton. That’s a loss… you are 100% right. Let’s not pretend that’s Patterico’s fault, my friend.

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  86. And now, Goldstein hear’s the dread words hurled at Cromwell and Chamberlain,
    “You have been here far too long for any good you may have done. Dude, get a job.”

    corwin (e214b0)

  87. corwin, it is really embarrassing for him.

    Once you start threatening to physically hurt people, the trolls need to stop supporting his vendetta. He’s a psycho. He’s just like Deb Frisch. Every inch of sympathy he got now becomes anger that he has chosen such behavior after fearing it.

    It must be so emasculating for him. Fake conservatives are coming here to tell us how poor Jeff makes less money than Patterico, and there’s something vaguely wrong with Patterico pointing out Jeff’s money drive efforts (which he had legit reason to criticize that had nothing to do with money). People are saying that Jeff G somehow has a ‘card’ to play because he has a wife who is of a different race. This ‘I cannot be accused of racism because of my race’ crap, and this ‘I am poor therefore you are wrong’ crap really, really stinks. It’s just wrong. Jeff didn’t just threaten to hurt people when he lost the argument, he lied about what people said and called them racist with absolutely no evidence.

    It’s a shame that there were a bunch of fakes on the right. It is not a shame or wrong for Patterico to expose them.

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  88. man found catanoic, semi nude, further medical tests revealed wireless mouse inserted in lower GI tract

    Police detectives are leaning towards self inflicted

    Jacobs could not be reached for comment

    EricPWJohnson (9b7688)

  89. The real question is – does Patterico have room for Darlene Cl;ick to come over?

    EricPWJohnson (9b7688)

  90. Who is Jeff Goldstein and why should we care?

    Monkeytoe (e66874)

  91. Oh, I did not realize this was the guy from Protein Wisdom that has to have bi-weekly mini-dramas about “retiring” from blogging b/c it is all getting just so difficult.

    Only to come back with a post about how tough he is and how he is into this martial art, or that martial art. How tiresome.

    Anyone who feels the need to consistenly blog about how tough they are, and how they could beat up so-and-so, has serious self-esteem issues that should be dealt with. Truly “tough” people never brag about such things to such an extent.

    I actually used to like Protein Wisdom quite a bit, but he has become very tiresome over the past couple of years.

    He also takes pleasure in writing in academicese. Performing that kind of self-masbatory writing is another signal of self-esteem issues. Some people will never understand that when you are attempting to prove your intellect with a written argument, the best way to do it is not to write in incomprehensible insider gibberish – but to make plain points. when your writing has to be decyphered, it does not prove how smart you are, but rather how foolish. You can’t persuade anyone of anything if they can’t even understand your point due to the use of run-on sentences, terms of art, and ten-dollar words.

    Monkeytoe (e66874)

  92. monkeytoe, he’s someone who threatens to physically hurt our friends who comment here at this blog, and we should care because they are our friends.

    I like Darleen, Eric. I don’t agree with her on this, but that’s OK. People can disagree with each other here without being treated like garbage. I feel sorry for her, because she understandably feels loyalty to Jeff. Imagine realizing your boss was Deb Frisch. that’s what Darleen’s day has been like.

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  93. And, trust me, as an attorney I know how to make the written word as indecypherable as Goldstein does. But what is the point of that?

    Monkeytoe (e66874)

  94. Two words:

    Roid rage

    Yeah, I’ve seen this kind of behavior at some gyms I used to belong to; some real knuckle – draggers could be almost out of control at times. The difference here is that (fortunately) the hopped – up guys can’t actually act out their rageaholic obsessions. But the manner and tone are eerily familar.

    Dmac (a964d5)

  95. Monkeytoe, when some nut said that Patterico’s posts are impossible to read, I noted that Protein wisdom often has indirect and confusing posts. Jeff admitted this was a running gag until he realized I was supporting Patterico, at which point I was too stupid for Jeff to write a ‘Reading for dummies’ book for.

    He’s smart enough to know that he looks totally insecure when he acts like this. Hell, if you talk to Jeff the way he talks to us, Jeff will call the police, flee his blog, beg for donations to help him take his family into hiding. I should add I gave him money when he asked at that time. Nice little racket this bastard set up. He didn’t mind Deb’s tactics… he just wanted to reserve them for his own use.

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  96. Dustin, I appreciate your comments there—I too donated money to Jeff G. But I didn’t think he “used” that situation for money.

    I do think he is acting out now, and the super macho pose is creepy.

    Personally, I just want this all to blow over. But historically, this has to go on for a while.

    Eric Blair (0b61b2)

  97. Eric, I deserve the rebuke for that, I guess. I mean, I know it’s got to be horrifying to have someone threaten your daughter. Jeff needed some help, and I would give him the money again if he was in that kind of need.

    I would like this to blow over in the sense of RSM being welcomed into the fold of reasonable and decent and prosperous journalists (he’s making a lot of progress on his own, the old fashioned way, I guess), and I want this blow over in most other respects. But Jeff G is out. People who associate with that kind of thing are also out, if they keep it up. He’s just radioactive, in my mind.

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  98. Ah, crap, Scott. Ignore him.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  99. I haven’t had a decent play-thing in years.

    How can I be expected to pass this up?

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  100. Well, I hear ya.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  101. scott

    1st – its a crime

    2nd – its a shame

    3rd – its all for more publicity

    dont do it – he was speaking allegorically

    But seriously the worst thing that can happen to a attention sump is to ignore him

    EricPWJohnson (9b7688)

  102. Scott, don’t! Do like I told you.

    nk (df76d4)

  103. Which option do you think will give me greater amusement, nk?

    Why don’t you like fun?

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  104. Look, the guy has lost control of his thoughts and may have lost control of his life. He is certainly not in touch with reality. Let the professionals handle him.

    nk (df76d4)

  105. Don’t fool with people who have nothing to lose.

    nk (df76d4)

  106. Scott,

    If you haven’t done it yet, don’t. Giving him that information won’t be used how you expect. Just like publishing (or threatening to publish) private emails, all that will happen is your personal information will be published, researched, or held hostage. It’s foolish to just give it to him.

    I have little doubt that you are willing to meet him. I’m just glad he didn’t threaten me. That would be the scariest… wait… no, I guess it wouldn’t. Anyway, I think it’s a bad idea because you’re not dealing with someone who has any integrity.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  107. nk speaks like he knows what he’s talking about.

    I’ve had to deal with people who have nothing to lose and a paranoid rage. There’s no way to come out of this a winner, except not to play the game.

    God knows what in Jeff’s life sent him here with this need to defend racism and onward. I don’t think he’s sipping a piña colada by the pool with his mistress. If anyone can get in touch with his family, I think it would be a good thing to get this sucker off the internet for one of his little vacations, though.

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  108. There’s no doubt Jeff would spin this around as Scott threatening him. Considering Jeff’s pattern of accusing people of doing whatever Jeff did wrong, it would be kinda shocking if he didn’t do this.

    If Scott actually does go through with this, I hope he gives the address of a local gymnasium.

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  109. Oh the humor. Could have given the address of a gay night-club or adult store.

    Man, where were you people an hour and a half ago?

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  110. Why would you let such an INGRATE come back anyway. He is certainly full of himself isn’t he? and if he is threatening bodily harm perhaps he ought to be spoken to by the police. WE are NOT the idiot left where WE go about acting violently for ABSOLUTELY NO REASON! What a TOOL your site is better off without that idiot!

    Jaded (018064)

  111. There are a couple of people who are very happy with the ongoing kerfuffle. One is timb and the other is Cut’n Paste Joe, who is butt hurt at being banned by Patterico but doesn’t have the chops to engage in any productive debate anyway. At least activity keeps him glued to his keyboard and away from chasing cars.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  112. There have been precious few people that have covered themselves in glory in all of this.

    JD (b537f4)

  113. Jaded – It is solely for TEH GAY PORN COCK OF LIES!!!!!

    WOLVERINES!!11!!eleventy!!11!!

    daleyrocks (718861)

  114. “Darmok and Gilad at Tanagra” what we have is deliberate refusal to communicate. WE have mad scientists who have cooked the books in order to justify a return to a pre industrial society, to steal our birthright of liberty through thishealth
    care sham, jihadists plotting our destruction, sometimes from our own barracks. Yet this is the pressing issue, right after Tiger Wood’s latest
    fling

    Those remarks from Jeff, sound as dangerous, as Bugs Bunny’s declaration ‘ well you that this means war’ do you think with his experience because of the vile Debbie Frisch, he would threaten anyone, and you would think that some people could figure this out

    bishop (474138)

  115. There have been precious few people that have covered themselves in glory in all of this.

    So sorry. I’ll try to better the next time some douchebag decides to level a threat in my direction.

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  116. and you would think that some people could figure this out

    Without quoting an e-mail, I will simply say that I don’t entirely discount the possibility that JeffyG will make a stop by my place at some point.

    This neither frightens nor concerns me. I would not have offered my address if it did.

    But I’ve little doubt that he was speaking seriously – or at least as serious as an idiot like him is capable of.

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  117. Scott, if you did that, you’re a #$%^ ^^&** **&^ $%^*&^.

    nk (df76d4)

  118. If Jeff turns out to be the saner of the two of you …. Email me at njkritAThotmailDOTcom, you $%^&*^$.

    nk (df76d4)

  119. You know how having KSM’s trial in NY is simply gonna give him/them a forum to air their laundry?

    Yea…. that’s what your doing with this nut by giving him so much space on the page. Ban him, ignore him, and move on.

    Those that have read you for long enough know better. Those that haven’t will learn soon enough. The ONLY people he’s convincing are those that believe like him anyway. And why should you care about those few mentally deficient when they do crap like this?

    Scott B (a45cf8)

  120. Y’all could go get quesadillas and do beers of the world.

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  121. The Infadel Mataween wrote:

    I would ask, Patrick, that you remember a Klingon proverb – “Only a fool fights in a burning house”

    Thing is, both contestants own the same house! Mr Goldstein and our esteemed host are both conservatives, and will agree on the issues 95% of the time. They express themselves very differently, but, for the most part, they take the same positions. If memory serves, the initial dust-up concerned the best way to attack the opposition and advance conservative causes.

    Our host constructs very well documented arguments, and attempts to isolate his cases in such a manner as there really is no reasonable alternative; he’s an attorney, and that’s how attorneys do things. Mr Goldstein, on the other hand, is a verbal street fighter. He can’t compete with our host in a legalese construction, but, as a verbal street fighter, he leaves Patterico in the dust; Mr Goldstein takes rhetorical swings our host would never use, and most of the time, he lands his blows.

    I read Patterico far, far more often than I do Protein Wisdom; if I had a favorite in this fight, it would be our host. But, to me, this is a fight that shouldn’t be happening in the first place. Each man has his blog and his fans and his detractors, and each does good work. Unfortunately, it seems that they just can’t stand each other.

    OK, that’s fine: just because they agree on most things doesn’t mean that they have to like each other. In this case, I’d suggest that the best thing for them to do is just leave each other alone. If Mr Goldstein writes something with which Mr Frey disagrees, our host would be better served to just ignore it; after all, no blogger can address every issue! If Mr Frey writes something with which Mr Goldstein disagrees, the wiser course of action is to just say nothing. (Admittedly, that’s a greater burden on Mr Goldstein!)

    If I could make just one request here, it would be to just drop the whole thing; this is a fight in which both sides will lose.

    The Dana who is tired of this whole thing. (474dfc)

  122. Never mind. Good Allah, this is tiresome.

    JD (d71a7a)

  123. Lurker, here. Occasional commenter.

    My $.02: This has been one of the most insipid Internet pissing matches I have ever had the misfortune to bear witness to, and I’ve lost a good deal of respect for both of the principals.

    BC (fe6289)

  124. The night goes into morning… just another day
    happy people pass my way but looking in their eyes
    I see a memory I never realized how mean you people was.

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  125. x-posted

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  126. “Ban him, ignore him, and move on.

    Those that have read you for long enough know better. Those that haven’t will learn soon enough. The ONLY people he’s convincing are those that believe like him anyway.
    Comment by Scott B ”

    I am happy to learn who those people are, Scott, but you’re probably right.

    I see what Indirect Object Dana means in that both sides will lose. It is kinda ugly. It’s not like Jeff’s not taking it to an increasingly worse level, but Patterico’s answered the charges he;s offering already.

    On the other hand, Patterico has not been commenting on this since early this morning. I think he repeatedly notes he wants to let this go. I hope you guys can put yourself in his shoes. It is so easy to point out that two people fighting have reduced themselves to fighting. Patterico’s friends are being threatened. Not just Scott. Nk and others. Patterico indeed dropped this antisemitism defense ages ago. It blew up in his face as soon as Patterico criticized someone on the right (something a lot of people have a huge problem with… people who don’t understand that this was a really sweet discussion).

    Anyway, let’s all give each other a break. it’s been pretty hellish, just trying to state an opinion without having people jump down your throat.

    JD’s right… when you merely defend yourself from a cretin, that’s not glorious.

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  127. Jeff Goldstein is a rock star. Mr. Patterico is a rock star.

    Jeff Goldstein and Mr. Patterico are both rock stars.

    How many rock stars does that make?

    By my count that would be two rock stars.

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  128. Well, I guess there’s not much need for pointing out, yet again, my view of Jeff.

    But happyfeet, rock star? You want to encourage him? He’s got a real bona fide hatred. At a fucking blog commenter.

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  129. It’s not a real bona fide hatred I promise. Sometimes people speak in a patois of animosity but that doesn’t make them hateful just grumpy or touchy or ironic or emphatic. And things have been so noisy and rancorous to be heard at all you almost have to use your angry voice.

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  130. And things have been so noisy and rancorous to be heard at all you almost have to use your angry voice.

    Yes, I very much understand. I know that I often make threats to leave someone beaten upon the ground just to make sure that my point gets across.

    I’m really starting think that I was wrong to hold you in high regard, happyfeet.

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  131. I didn’t really follow all that part, Scott. I just know Mr. G isn’t prone to malicious violence. Isn’t saying stuff like that online sort of inherently ironic?

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  132. Isn’t saying stuff like that online sort of inherently ironic?
    Comment by happyfeet — 12/14/2009 @ 6:11 pm

    No, it’s just kind.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  133. happyfeet is never embarrassed to be wrong when it comes to Goldstein. Extremism is defense of insanity is no vice in the world of happy.

    timb (449046)

  134. I didn’t really follow all that part, Scott.

    His threats are half of the fucking post!! It’s the entire update, and about me specifically for half of that! WTF does it take then, huh?

    I just know Mr. G isn’t prone to malicious violence

    Oh, so because he only does this shit occationally, that makes it perfectly fucking fine.

    Yeah. I really was wrong. Jesus was I wrong.

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  135. Goldstein’s the one who keeps trumpeting his desire to force fucking blog-disputes into the arena of physical violence. I don’t necessarily agree with Scott’s choice on this – insofar as Goldstein’s (contemptible, pathetic) threat of violence is completely hollow, and presents no real threat to Scott or his people – but I’m sure as hell not going to jump all over him for making the decision he made. It was a missed opportunity to turn the other cheek, but we’re only human, and I wish Scott the best in all this, as he’s most certainly in the right. Goldstein’s the one who keeps threatening to bring these things into the real world – not only with his threats of violence, but with his coercion aimed at Patterico (who he’s threatened [again, hollowly] to paint as an anti-Semite for all the world to see – not the blog-world, but the real world). So… Goldstein’s an asshole. If he comes anywhere near you, Scott, you ought to do what nk says and have him fucking arrested like the lunatic that he is… or, if it comes to it, you ought to demonstrate that there have been technological advances since the time of the cavemen (where JG apparently resides) that render all the weight-lifting and jasmine-scented oil in the world completely, laughably obsolete. If you get my drift. Which I think you do, based on your statements about the relative merit of “fighting fair” (with which I absolutely agree).

    Leviticus (30ac20)

  136. Please drop it. Just call me an a____e if you want to blame anyone.

    nk (df76d4)

  137. Patterico off my Google Reader again. I tried giving him another chance, but four freaking posts about Jeff Goldstein, and I think I’ll be moving on. But keep fighting the good fight there, Pat. You really recognize the important people you need to be focusing your attention on.

    Paul Zummo (02076f)

  138. There have been precious few people that have covered themselves in glory in all of this.
    Comment by JD — 12/14/2009 @ 3:14 pm

    Yeah, your entire world is based on conservative = good and liberal = bad. It’s just too hard for you to conceive that a conservative can be baaadddd. Well, guess what, your first daddy was ridiculous and psychopathic like he has been to numerous other and he was even really mean to the host.

    Must just blow your narrow mind….

    timb (449046)

  139. Scott.

    I think I understand your feelings.

    Maybe, unlike you, I’m not a good fighter, so my flight or fight is skewed towards “live to fight another day” but when I get anything that seems like a challenge in a small space, past worlds are triggered and I feel I have to stand up and do as much damage as possible or I’ll be a punk for what’ll seem like forever which just means more and more fighting.
    Luckily this isn’t then, this is now.

    When I think “this is now” I gotta say ignore the challenge, ignore the insult. There are other places where you have to fight… online is about as far from that as you can get.
    Save your entry into our fine legal system for those times that really matter.

    SteveG (909b57)

  140. timb, get lost. Seriously, get lost. We don’t need any shi-stirrers right now. We’ll call you when we do.

    nk (df76d4)

  141. Dustin sez

    God knows what in Jeff’s life sent him here with this need to defend racism and onward

    Sad, Dustin can’t read.

    darleen (c91d75)

  142. #

    There are a couple of people who are very happy with the ongoing kerfuffle. One is timb and the other is Cut’n Paste Joe, who is butt hurt at being banned by Patterico but doesn’t have the chops to engage in any productive debate anyway. At least activity keeps him glued to his keyboard and away from chasing cars.

    Comment by daleyrocks — 12/14/2009 @ 2:54 pm

    I don’t say this nearly enough, daley, but let me just go ahead: fuck you. You know nothing about me. I had that racist motherfucker, McCain, do an entire post about me, which for all I knew, could have inspired neo-Confederates to try and track me down. Godlstein is out there using my name on every crackpot website on the right side of the blogosphere.

    So far the only part of this I enjoy is watching Goldstein show who he is really is to the “people on his team.” I am also finally happy that McCain’s racism is not too much to keep from joining him.

    As for the rest, since I don’t agree with any of the participant’s and apparently no one will actually read anything more than “one quote from 13 years ago,” then no, I am not happy.

    In the end, I must loom loud in your 80 IQ point mind. I’m just some Svengali who causes schisms amongst people who revile me personally for disagreeing with them politically.

    Oh, and it must annoy you that I can do more research than knowing that Morris Dees is a boogeyman to the right wing. I actually know how to read, daley. I’d suggest you learn how, but in the end, I’d just point out that at Protein Wisdom, you’re as respected as I am. I am happy about that

    But, it’s all my fault and makes me “happy.” freakin simpleton….if it makes me sad, it make the evil tim happy…

    timb (449046)

  143. Oh, nk, I appreciate the irony….

    but no way I’m letting dj off the hook for his Manichean worldview.

    With that said, now that I see a true kook is here, I will retire so Jeff’s second can defend him. Maybe, she can call him boss some more, ’cause that’s wicked cute.

    timb (449046)

  144. I’ve been checking in on both patterico and proteinwisdom nearly daily for quite a while.

    No more. I hope that the two of you grow up at some point.

    Rich (51d66d)

  145. Lost another argument, huh, Pat?

    Lazarus Long (a4f63e)

  146. The Lazarus Long I read in Heinlein went back in time and had sex with his mother. I imagine our troll did the same thing without a time machine.

    nk (df76d4)

  147. No, nk, it was yo momma.

    And she was really cheap.

    10 pesos in Guadalupe,as I recall.

    Lazarus Long (a4f63e)

  148. “timb, get lost. Seriously, get lost. We don’t need any shi-stirrers right now. We’ll call you when we do.
    Comment by nk — 12/14/2009 @ 6:38 pm ”

    Oh, teh irony, she burns, she burns.

    Lazarus Long (a4f63e)

  149. With that, I’m outta here.

    Between shitheels like timmah and nk, I gotta feel that Jeff is glad that he got banned again.

    Lazarus Long (a4f63e)

  150. Well, irony would not burn you so much if you had enough Vitamin D.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  151. Lazarous Long, your choice of pseudonym says all we need to about you.

    nk (df76d4)

  152. Hey, wait a minute. I took the name, “Lazarus Long” to avoid government intrusion. It was part of The Masquerade.

    The person hijacking my name should choose “Simon Jester” instead. Simon was a cybernet pseudonym designed to irritate and stir up other people.

    Woodrow Wilson Smith (ddbceb)

  153. Patterico, don’t let this trolling asshole get to you. There’s a risk that simply engaging with him diminishes the stature and credibility of your blog.

    I don’t see any reason why this punk bitch should ever show up on the front page of your blog again.

    CliveStaples (2b8a52)

  154. Happyfeet,

    ;(

    SarahW (692fc6)

  155. The creepy stalker-ish type one is more dense than lead. FWIW, since you do not appear to be able to read, I suggested that I did not like how this all played out. I said, “There have been precious few people that have covered themselves in glory in all of this”. Since there were pretty much only conservatives involved in this, your conservative = good, liberal = bad calculation seems inapt. Actually, it is fucking bullshit. My first daddy? I have had only one father, all of my life. But continue to rant on at the dark shadows that populate your “mind”. You really are disturbed, timb.

    JD (5075fe)

  156. me too

    [note: fished from spam filter. –Stashiu]

    happyfeet (2c63dd)

  157. the filter ate my “me too”

    happyfeet (2c63dd)

  158. Wolcott is stroking his ocelot.

    JD (5075fe)

  159. A pox on both your houses! You’re both acting like Debbie Schlussel.

    SicSemperTyrannus (4f2403)

  160. I’m totally using this for a while…

    [Name withheld] (445f98)

  161. That was deeply incomprehensible, Wolcott’s ‘contribution’ to the debate, such as it was. Actually Vidal called Buckley a Nazi on national TV, the proper step would have been to slug him

    bishop (474138)

  162. I’m not vouching for Wolcott’s comprehensibility.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (9eb641)

  163. I comprehended it, took a nap, woke up wearing a silk bathrobe with an ocelot on my lap. But that was a dream within a dream.

    Say, who is he calling ratfucker.

    SarahW (692fc6)

  164. No worries.

    Goldstein is a classic internet tough guy. All talk, all bluster, all fake, all the time. He is not violent. He is not dangerous. He is not serious.

    He is a joke.

    There is zero chance of anything arising from this.

    Fritz (f04c33)

  165. “Actually Vidal called Buckley a Nazi on national TV, the proper step would have been to slug him”

    You know who else silenced and physically attacked those calling them Nazis? Hitler.

    imdw (4fe3dc)

  166. Ratfucky?

    Apparently this term has been used on Balloon Juice, Sadly No, Daily Kos, Firedoglake, and now Vanity Fair.

    The More You Know
    ===———————X

    I agree with Jd that no one is glorious here. If we move on hating eachother, we’re letting the wrong people win. Jeff got under my skin and a lot of other people’s skin. You can forgive us for being pissed about it, I guarantee it.

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  167. You know who else silenced and physically attacked those calling them Nazis? Hitler.

    Noooooooooo… Actually that was a pretty accepted term in Nazi Germany.

    Look, I realize that you’re a fucking retard, but calling someone a Nazi when that person had actually been in the military fighting the Nazis is generally not an act that is considered endearing…

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  168. Well, if Wolcott’s in you can be sure Patterico’s Pontifications has bone on an endless crusade of being utterly boring. Keep it up.

    vanderleun (444f85)

  169. I posted a version of my comment #124 on Mr Goldstein’s fine site. After a small exchange, Mr Goldstein said that the next step would be him winning.

    I responded:

    Our esteemed host wrote:

    Next phase is me winning with well-documented arguments in which I isolate my cases in such a manner as there really is no reasonable alternative. You’d be surprised what people who’ve trained in theory can do if they bothered to compose their posts outside of these little windows, proof them, edit them, and actually concentrate on what they say. Not that it’s any small feat writing the posts I do while watching TV and tending to some seriously strung out sugar beets.

    Oh. And put me down for a hundred on me. What odds do I get?

    I wonder: could you tell me just what “winning” would look like in this urinating match? In World War II, we laid down the condition: unconditional surrender. Do you believe that Mr Frey would issue a statement of unconditional — or even conditional — surrender?

    In some cases, winning is marked by annihilating your enemy; in a blog flame war, I suppose this would consist of Patterico’s Pontifications losing an obvious number of readers, and Protein Wisdom showing a substantial gain. Is that how you would measure winning?

    If you want to bet $100, we can do that, as soon as you come up with a reasonable definition of how winning would be measured.

    I probably shouldn’t have added the last paragraph, but what the heck; my former future son-in-law can always slide me a few bucks if I need ’em.

    The Dana who can win $100 (474dfc)

  170. Buddy, if I ain’t marryin’ yer daughter, I ain’t loaning you jack. :)

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  171. Winning would be if the sugar beets straightened out and made something of themselves I think.

    happyfeet (2c63dd)

  172. Winning would be if the sugar beets straightened out and made something of themselves I think.

    That, or maybe breaking someone’s ankles.

    Patterico (64318f)

  173. I guess it depends on who is defining the winning.

    Patterico (64318f)

  174. Well, I did ask Mr Goldstein to give us a reasonable, measurable definition. Of course, if you issue a statement of surrender, it’ll simplify matters — though that’ll mean I’ll owe Mr Goldstein $100.

    The Dana who put his money where his keyboard is (474dfc)

  175. This is one of the most notable blog thingers this whole year, this enmity-laden yet substantive discussion what you guys have been having.

    That’s neat. And I get to say I saw most of it while it was happening.

    I told NG about it and she looked at me like I was kind of a dork. No. She looked at me like I was a complete dork.

    So we’re just not gonna talk about this with NG anymore.

    happyfeet (2c63dd)

  176. I have to help the kid with her bath right now but all the time I will be thinking, “Who is NG?” Who is NG?

    nk (df76d4)

  177. newt gingrich
    norman greenbaum
    nancy grace

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  178. oh. NG is the new girl at work. She brought our number there to four, and it’s a lot unlikely we’ll ever be five, so she’ll be NG forever. At work it’s me, NG, OG (other guy) and boss person.

    happyfeet (2c63dd)

  179. You work at Headline News?!?!

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  180. Offices can be so complicated. For instance, NG could stay NG forever. Or someday she could become OG, but never ever refer to her that way. She could even become the boss person or the boss person’s significant other.

    DRJ (84a0c3)

  181. lol… no… NG is a baby…she’s engaged and the date is set and the deposit on the reception place is a done deal and boss person swore off significant others like 15 years ago… me and OG never knew this story until one day boss person and NG were smoking together out in front of a restaurant during a business dinner me and OG had both gotten out of, and he told her a woeful tale of love gone wrong that I never needed to hear ever but I did. So he’s single forever and ever.

    This is not a bad thing probably.

    happyfeet (2c63dd)

  182. oh hey Mr. G responded to you, Dana. Memetic victory is an awesome phrase you hardly ever hear these days coming from the right.

    happyfeet (2c63dd)

  183. Which is to say that he didn’t provide the conditions that Dana requested, so while he may have replied, he in no way actually responded.

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  184. Well, Mr Jacobs, he did say I could keep my $100, so I won’t need that loan, at least not this week.

    My response:

    Our honored host wrote:

    So you don’t have to put your money down. I’ve already won the argument. Winning the court of public opinion, on the other hand, is always an uphill battle, particularly when your opponent spends his weekend trying to smear you with race-baiting scandals, or suggestions that you are dangerously unstable, or a fraud, or a liar, or a pseudo-intellectual money-grubber who is out to dupe people into believing a load of linguistic horse shit.

    Isn’t this rather like something we could expect from the Democrats, to simply declare victory and go home? Or, on a more practical level, like winning an argument with your wife?

    I’d guess that most Protein Wisdom readers would think that yes, you won the argument; it seems as though most Patterico readers believe that your learned opponent won. Me, I think that you both lost, and have said so on Mr Frey’s site as well.

    Well, today is my darling bride’s (of thirty years, six months and 27 days) fiftieth birthday; I guess this means I don’t have to hold that Franklin, and can buy her a present.

    [note: released from moderation filter. –Stashiu]

    The Dana who kept his money (3e4784)


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