Putting North Korea in Time-Out
[Guest post by DRJ]
I’m a fan of rules and consequences, both as a parent and an American, but I don’t think calling North Korea an unruly child is the best way to deal with Kim Jong-Il and his government:
“What we’ve seen is this constant demand for attention,” [Secretary of State Hillary] Clinton, who is in India, said in an interview that aired on Monday on ABC’s “Good Morning America.”
“And maybe it’s the mother in me or the experience that I’ve had with small children and unruly teenagers and people who are demanding attention — don’t give it to them, they don’t deserve it, they are acting out,” she said.”
I’m afraid it will just make them work harder to meet her low expectations.
— DRJ
Such as her husband?
Old Coot (83c1d1) — 7/20/2009 @ 7:23 pmThe world knows how she dealt with her attention deprived husband and how well that worked out.
NK is demanding attention anymore than Germany demanded attention when it remilitarized the Rhineland, annexed Austria or marched into the Suedatenland. Had the West taken the correct action against Hitler WWII wouldn’t have happened.
But this would have required something other than giving speeches and writing blistering letters to the Times.
Lefties never change, they never learn. They are full of hope, optimism for those who hate us, and contempt and hatred for their fellow Americans.
They told us Hanoi really was peaceful. That the Soviets weren’t bad guys. Now they tell us NK just wants attention?
Yeah and OJ is tracking down his wife’s murderer.
Really!
Thomas Jackson (8ffd46) — 7/20/2009 @ 7:23 pmWhen are we going to start seeing the brilliance and wisdom promised of Teh One’s administration, the most diplomatic, and most smarterest, and the mostest ethical EVAH !!!!!
JD (878a7c) — 7/20/2009 @ 7:28 pmHow much would a war against North Korea cost?
Michael Ejercito (833607) — 7/20/2009 @ 7:35 pmHillary was a smart (too smart) lawyer a million years ago, but otherwise she’s just a nobody who married well.
I don’t understand why this woman would ever have been considered a serious candidate for president, secstate, etc. It’s amazing to me that Palin gets the flack when it’s really Hillary that’s the empty suit.
Kids? She’s trying to promote herself as a political entity instead of trying to handle foreign policy.
Juan (bd4b30) — 7/20/2009 @ 7:39 pmThe Empty Pants Suit(tm), Juan. Empty Suit(tm) is already taken.
SPQR (26be8b) — 7/20/2009 @ 7:40 pmEjercito, in all seriousness, a war with North Korea would be tremendously awful in human cost and economic cost to Asia. Much of South Korea’s infrastructure is fairly close to the North.
to us? I have no idea, but we could have a much harder time winning hearts and minds than we had in Iraq. Even in the 1950s we had a very hard time with the insurgency there.
Juan (bd4b30) — 7/20/2009 @ 7:42 pmThis is stunning. Kim Jong-Il must be shaking in his little boots, rethinking his entire plan of madness given that Hillary has now made it publicly known she plans some serious I’ll-slap-that-smile-right-off-your-face Tough-Love, if he doesn’t stop playing with those nukes!
Good Lord, America, are we embarrassed now?
First we have our President groveling before the world, and now we have his counterpart shaking her Mom Finger at a tyrannical dictator, soundly scolding him while marching him to his room, juicebox in hand, for a timeout.
Heck, I could’ve been Secretrary of State, too, if that’s the criteria – and I didn’t just stand up to one unruly teen, Hillary, but three!
Somehow I expected more.
Dana (a3e680) — 7/20/2009 @ 7:53 pmIf Condi Rice had phrased it that way, the online moonbat colonies would be shrieking loudly enough to startle deaf people on Pluto right now.
M. Scott Eiland (5ccff0) — 7/20/2009 @ 7:54 pmJuan, you lost me with your belief that the Korean conflict had an “insurgency”.
SPQR (26be8b) — 7/20/2009 @ 8:08 pm1 in 7 or 1 in 6 of Kim Jung Il’s people have starved to death because of his ‘misbehavior’.
What’s sad is that we seem to be consistent in whitewashing real horrors and overreacting to and alienating our allies and the good guys.
The real problem is that this level of discourse sounds like crap that you would hear from North Korea… it’s just unserious and stupid.
Juan (bd4b30) — 7/20/2009 @ 8:17 pmpeople who are demanding attention — don’t give it to them
Ok. We need to leave all options on the table so Hillary’s devastating mom quiet treatment ploy is definitely not ruled out.
OR… An alternative way we could address the North Korea situation is with robust violence I think.
Just throwing things out.
happyfeet (c75712) — 7/20/2009 @ 8:23 pmDam! That Chelsea was one bad kid!
nk (3a9ec1) — 7/20/2009 @ 8:29 pmGiven all the years of antics of Hillary and Bill, and her lying like a brat-faced teenager about, say, dodging rounds of sniper fire as First Lady, she should know better than most what unruly children are all about. And when it comes to being a top-notch, highly experienced enabler, no one is quite as wonderful as she is in dealing with cuckoo rogues like Kim Jong-Il, or rogue nations like Iran, or, for that matter, deposed rogues like Zelaya of Honduras.
Mark (411533) — 7/20/2009 @ 8:30 pmSend Maddy Albright back over there to eat all their remaining food. See how they like that!
daleyrocks (718861) — 7/20/2009 @ 8:37 pmWhat a great time to be an enemy of the US; a dim-witted President, an incompetent Sec of State, and a corrupt political party that is in power and whose leadership is attacking the intelligence service of the US.
Not to mention, the US is in two wars, has an ailing economy and an inept leadership that is not capable of solving any of these problems (and in fact is likely to make them worse).
Bin laden must be laughing his head off (and Castro and Zelaya and Chavez and Kim Jong-Il and Ahmadinejad and Putin and…).
Pons Asinorum (829f65) — 7/20/2009 @ 8:38 pmnk:
That was my first thought, too. In a way, this made Chelsea sound like the worst kid in the neighborhood and I don’t think she deserves that.
DRJ (6f3f43) — 7/20/2009 @ 8:39 pm#16, The World loves us now, we are prostrate while taking it in the prostate. ObamaTards luv it. It is delichhhhh…..
HeavenSent (641cde) — 7/20/2009 @ 8:41 pmRuh-roh! Hillary’s being dismissive … even derisive!
Gas up Air Farce One for Pyongyang. Barry’s got some ‘pologizing to do.
L.N. Smithee (38ee9c) — 7/20/2009 @ 8:41 pmThis woman and her lackeys are a lot devoid of imagination. The State Department should get cable.
happyfeet (c75712) — 7/20/2009 @ 8:47 pm‘I don’t think she deserves that.’
Don’t be so sure! Perhaps Vince Foster learned too much about Chelsea.
Hillary did mention plural kids, I think specifically so people wouldn’t think she was referring to her daughter, per se… but DRJ, have you ever raised a teenage daughter? They can be preeeeettty unreasonable. It was a really dumb remark by any measure, so I don’t know why I’d defend it, but judging my her mother and her uncomfortable home (I can only assume), I bet Chelsea had some moments of ridiculousness.
Then again, given what she went through, she came out a graceful and nice lady, as far as I can tell.
Juan (bd4b30) — 7/20/2009 @ 8:53 pm#20 Well, she is the military expert of the administration; you know, with her “combat” experience of dodging sniper-fire and all.
—
Could this GET any worse?
“represents an infinitesimal threat to the United States directly.” I bet those words of wisdom did wonders for the moral of our troops. Nothing like being cannon-fodder.
I would love to know what Japan, South Korea, and Australia are wondering.
Pons Asinorum (829f65) — 7/20/2009 @ 8:54 pmJuan,
I never raised a teenage daughter but I was one, I had a lot of them as friends, and I’m glad I had sons.
DRJ (6f3f43) — 7/20/2009 @ 9:02 pmIt’s really hard for me to diss Chelsea because she has such complete crap for parents. And like I said, she does appear to be normalish, for a Goldman bubble riding democrat celeb, anyway.
Pons, you’re so right. North Korea may not be able to land on La Jolla beach and take over our nation, but they represent a tremendous risk to the global economy and, of course, to millions of people who thought we had their back 6 months ago.
Juan (bd4b30) — 7/20/2009 @ 9:11 pm… for a Goldman McKinsey, Hedge Fund bubble riding democrat celeb, anyway.
HeavenSent (641cde) — 7/20/2009 @ 9:12 pmthat’s the lens I look at it through too, Pons. This Hillary person is defining “ally” a lot down, and rapidly. This “infinitesimal threat” could devastate our allies, especially Japan who is the best one if you don’t count Australia or sometimes Canada and maybe Great Britain except they really embarrassed themselves in Iraq with their fecklessness but not Japan. Japan is the future if you don’t count India. Hyuu hyuu hyuu hyuu osu osu osu osu I think. Bye-Q!
happyfeet (c75712) — 7/20/2009 @ 9:19 pmYeah, I had a coupla nukes when I was a teenager.
Didn’t everyone?
Patricia (48ec63) — 7/20/2009 @ 9:25 pmOh, that was so good, Patricia.
DRJ (6f3f43) — 7/20/2009 @ 9:28 pmoh. The woman is a maliciously rabid authoritarian cow. Jeez. This is the kind of analysis what Hillary is inspiring…
Ignore nuclear North Korea, spank the crap out of peaceful democratic Honduras. In my name.
That’s super.
happyfeet (c75712) — 7/20/2009 @ 9:55 pmThey only go after the ones that are not capable of fighting back, happyfeet.
JD (bdcd86) — 7/20/2009 @ 9:58 pmMaybe they will send Madeline Albright down to Honduras, and she can threaten to dance with Michletti. That ought to give that little freedom lovin’ good-for-nuttin’ something to think about.
JD (bdcd86) — 7/20/2009 @ 10:04 pmI heard this on the radio today and I actually could not believe what I was hearing.
The Secretary of State of the United States of America compared North Korea to raising a rebellious child.
If Jesus didn’t weep, it’s because he simply doesn’t care anymore.
I’ve been watching “The Right Stuff” tonight. And, I look at my country’s leadership at the same time.
We are truly lost in a way that can’t be repaired. The wastrels of change have diminished all hope.
Ag80 (a71b80) — 7/20/2009 @ 10:04 pmI never raised a teenage daughter but I was one, I had a lot of them as friends, and I’m glad I had sons.
Hey! I had a teenage daughter. She was terrific, whip smart and on occasion, pushed the envelope but no hysterics or drama. She made me rise to the occasion of being a mom. And I’m forever grateful.
I’ve had sons, too. Both genders are unique. Bottom line: parents of either better be up to the challenge.
Dana (a3e680) — 7/20/2009 @ 10:10 pmThey only go after the ones that are not capable of fighting back and the wastrels of change have diminished all hope. Yes and yes.
But what they value most is the precedent of our little country actively moving against freedom and the precedent of our little country openly plotting the ennoblement of dirty socialist oppression. There’ll be days and days and days like this they say to themselves and they giddily spin around on the grass until they fall down dizzy with the perverse joy of it.
happyfeet (c75712) — 7/20/2009 @ 10:10 pmChelsea lived through a public humiliation like no teen ever wants to go through. Most want to blend into the woodwork. That she is reasonably normal, sane and still loves her parents in spite of the brutal passion play lived out before the entire world, including intimate details, speaks highly of her as a person.
Dana (a3e680) — 7/20/2009 @ 10:15 pmNorth Korea is bad and we shouldn’t give them the attention they crave = we don’t know what to do about North Korea, so we are pretending lack of action is the same as ignoring because they just crave attention
MayBee (781c96) — 7/20/2009 @ 11:08 pmToo much loud talk. Way too little big stick.
Beldar (6cb7a0) — 7/21/2009 @ 1:44 amThis is an example of that vaunted and formidible diplomatic skill that Barcky and Hillary were supposed to bring to the table. Madd skillz, I tell you.
JD (28f89b) — 7/21/2009 @ 3:57 amAsk any GI who has been assigned to ROK and you will find they have long known their primary role is that of trip wire. If the North ever comes across the line the number of casualties on both sides will be staggering.
voiceofreason2 (590c85) — 7/21/2009 @ 4:45 amIt would however, likely justify the nuclear response from us.
Definitely not something anyone relishes, just the reality of it
Loss of face is huge in the Orient.
I wonder what NK’s reaction will be if the SoS’s words get much play?
Wouldn’t be hysterical if it turns out that later this actually worked? Certainly not much else has since June 27, 1950.
jim2 (a9ab88) — 7/21/2009 @ 7:48 amI have (had) two sons and two daughters. And we had a firm rule in our house. “Set off one nuke – shame on you. Set off two nukes – shame on me.”
Honestly, Hillary has already imposed the worst possible punishment, hasn’t she? Making Kim live in North Korea is almost cruel and unusual. I’d like to think that if push came to shove we’d be willing to lower the boom (a big boom) on North Korea. But I’m afraid that before we could do that the Child Protective Services (UN) would step in to stop the spanking.
(Note: “push comes to shove” phrase was only a metaphor, not an endorsement of violent pushing)
Gesundheit (47b0b8) — 7/21/2009 @ 8:08 amto millions of people who thought we had their back 6 months ago.
I’m not so sure all of those millions in SK necessarily deserve to have the US “at their backs.” The last three decades have seen millions marching to “get the US out of SK” memes, along with the usual inanities of “Yankee Imperialism” and so yawn. Granted, while not all of the SK feel this way, a majority did in order to elect a Premier who was the supreme appeaser of NK, promising to bring his vaunted “sunshine policy” in order to bring peace and love across the entire continent. And in like manner, it became more like sunshine blown up their own as–es, and they’re reaping the rewards for their wanton ignorance (along with the US, of course).
Dmac (e6d1c2) — 7/21/2009 @ 8:32 am#42 — I’ve often wondered about that Dmac. Right now, I look at it this way; China has to economically support NK, plus deal with a refugee problem on their border, and worry about a dictator that has nukes.
Not sure how much money it is costing China, but ironically, if ROK were to reunite the peninsula, this would present a stable trading partner for China, rather than an unstable expense. It would also stop the problem of refugees fleeing into China (and from our own experience, we know all the associated problems that would be alleviated). In addition, China would realize a bonus as the sole nuclear power in the region.
Still be worth it to us though, because we could stop the starvation of millions, increase stability in the region, and reduce evil/misery index/tension/nuk proliferation problems. In short, make the world a better place, like the previous generation did (of course, they did it on a much larger scale and faced much more difficult challenges).
In the end, though, it is a moral problem for us. We gave our word.
—
If it was up to me, I would personally withdraw our ground-forces but keep the security guarantee in the form of air/sea power. Between ROK ground forces and our combined air/sea forces, it would not be worth the risk to NK (it is a dictatorship after all) and it would greatly reduced the risk to US forces. Not to mention a large financial savings for us, a reduced strain on our military resources, and removal of a decades old tripwire dependent upon American blood. It might also open all kinds of doors from a diplomatic perspective.
(of course, I am not in charge, which is a good thing)
Pons Asinorum (829f65) — 7/21/2009 @ 11:55 amdmac, I personally saw Koreans burning US flags when I was stationed in South Korea, so I know what you mean.
But the US has its share of idiots too. I assure you that most Koreans love the USA. The story with the Bradley running over those children a few years ago really boosted anti Americanism for a while, but I think that has greatly passed.
Also, it’s not just about whether these people deserve our support.. it’s about the economic catastrophe that would occur if Japan and South Korea really had to deal with what North Korea has built in enormous artillery capability.
Further, we went there under certain assumptions… it’s really a UN command, but we have promises to keep. One of them is to help these people. We’re stronger this way.
All that sunshine policy crap wasn’t just south Korean. A lot of that was SecState Albright. But at the end of the day, I just don’t see a good solution to North Korea. They don’t respond to anything in the way they should, and don’t value happiness or health or human life.
Juan (bd4b30) — 7/21/2009 @ 12:06 pmOn a side note, the WaPo has a detailed look at the death camps inside of North Korea and that due to the nuclear issue, the critical humanitarian issues are back burnered,
In recent months, North Korea has reneged on its promise to abandon nuclear weapons, kicked out U.N. weapons inspectors, exploded a second nuclear device and created a major security crisis in Northeast Asia.
Containing that crisis has monopolized the Obama administration’s dealings with North Korea. The camps, for the time being, are a non-issue. “Unfortunately, until we get a handle on the security threat, we can’t afford to deal with human rights,” said Peter Beck, a former executive director of the U.S. Committee for Human Rights in North Korea.
These camps are equivalent to the Nazi camps, and it’s just a shame that the most powerful nation in the world is limited to only being able to put Kim Jong in a little timeout. As Mark Krikorian suggests, aren’t there at least some movie stars looking for a righteous cause to get behind (and in turn get a little self-promotion in the bargain)?
A distillation of testimony from survivors and former guards, newly published by the Korean Bar Association, details the daily lives of 200,000 political prisoners estimated to be in the camps: Eating a diet of mostly corn and salt, they lose their teeth, their gums turn black, their bones weaken and, as they age, they hunch over at the waist. Most work 12- to 15-hour days until they die of malnutrition-related illnesses, usually around the age of 50. Allowed just one set of clothes, they live and die in rags, without soap, socks, underclothes or sanitary napkins.
Dana (a3e680) — 7/21/2009 @ 12:40 pmJuan and Pons, both good points. It just frustrates me to no end when the MSM never brings up the incredible failings of Albright and Clinton on this issue, as well as the enabling actions of the political leadership in SK at the same time. Quite a lot of FUBAR to go around here.
Dmac (e6d1c2) — 7/21/2009 @ 1:36 pmI wonder why no one ever asks what are the costs of permiting NK to exist. How amny billions must be spent to defend against it endlessly. How does not acting spread the arms race and even nuclear weapons. How much does it cost because the PRC knows it can use its client states to badger and blackmail a weak kneed West?
We might look at how the Japanese and Germans acted in the 30s and how the West’s actions determined their future events. Penny wise and pound foolish.
By the way most Korean industry isn’t within the range of NK artillery. Their best weapons have a range of about 33 miles unless you are including rockets which lack the accuracy to hit anything presenting a target profile of an industrial plant.
Between 1986-1988 Tehran fired over 400 Scuds at Baghdad in an attempt to hit its refinery. Not one hit their intended target.
Thomas Jackson (8ffd46) — 7/21/2009 @ 7:29 pmI was in Tagei during violent student demonstrations against the US (there are few peaceful demonstrations in SK). There were American flags burned but not as many as I saw burned at Columbia or Berkleley.
The US has few true allies in the world. South Korea is one of them.
Thomas Jackson (8ffd46) — 7/22/2009 @ 2:39 pm[…] week, Hillary Clinton likened North Korea to an unruly child who was acting out and should be ignored. North Korea […]
Patterico’s Pontifications » Diplomacy ‘R Us (e4ab32) — 7/23/2009 @ 10:35 pm