Suspected Islamic Terrorists Were Aboard Air France Flight
This is probably just a stroke of good luck:
TWO passengers with names linked to Islamic terrorism were on board the doomed Air France flight which crashed with the loss of 228 lives, it emerged today.
. . . .
Air France also received a bomb threat in Brazil four days before the doomed flight crashed.
Soon after news of the fatal crash broke, agents working for the DGSE (Direction Generale de la Securite Exterieur), the French equivalent of MI6, were dispatched to Brazil.
It was there that they established that two names on the passenger list are also on highly classified documents listing the names of radical Muslims considered a threat to the French Republic.
The plane did crash during a “violent storm,” and the simplest explanation is that the storm was responsible.
Still . . . planes weather violent storms all the time.
Presumably the black box will tell us more, if they find it.
That is just crazy talk, it could never happen.
Joe (17aeff) — 6/10/2009 @ 7:20 amPeople I know who are familiar with flight are wondering why the pilot couldn’t ditch the aircraft. The simplest explanation may not be that the storm was responsible.
France has a lot of reasons to say it was the storm. All I can say is that conspiracies don’t generally work, the truth leaks out.
We certainly have no reason to jump to any hasty conclusions.
Amphipolis (fdbc48) — 6/10/2009 @ 7:38 amI am sure the best way to do one of these investigations is to assume every plausible possibility then work your way down in proving or disproving each one.
Joe (17aeff) — 6/10/2009 @ 7:43 amAnd the DGSE doesn’t have a problem with torture. None at all. Nor with summary executions.
mojo (8096f2) — 6/10/2009 @ 7:49 amIn actuality, the French counter – terrorism interrogations frequently involve hooking up the suspect’s gonads to batteries and other things of that ilk – but no one in the European press seems to remember those inconvenient facts when decrying waterboarding. Just ask the Algerians about what the French deem to be acceptable procedures during interrogations – they make the US look like grade – schoolers by comparision.
Dmac (f7884d) — 6/10/2009 @ 8:21 amP: What do you mean by “a stroke of good luck”? Do you mean it’s probably just a coincidence? I don’t understand how it’s good.
Myron (98529a) — 6/10/2009 @ 8:38 amGoodness, how obtuse are you, Myron? Our host is saying that despite this being a tragic disaster for most of the passengers on board (as well as the flight crew), if two terrorists happened to be eliminated in the tragedy, it’s not a complete waste of lives.
Dmac (f7884d) — 6/10/2009 @ 8:52 amDmac: Are you Patterico? I wasn’t asking you a question.
Myron (98529a) — 6/10/2009 @ 8:59 amThey don’t need the black box to find evidence of an explosion: residue on bodies and the nature of wounds will tell them if it was that.
Amphipolis, not a lot of point to trying to ditch a plane into storm-tossed seas and far from help. A real bad bet under the best of conditions.
Besides, if the plane failed structurally, it would have happened REAL fast. At 500 MPH, loss of aerodynamic structure would have resulted in immediate deceleration — might as well hit a mountain. At least it was quick.
Kevin Murphy (0b2493) — 6/10/2009 @ 9:08 amDmac: Are you Patterico? I wasn’t asking you a question
This is a public forum, Myron – not your own little hobby horse to ride whenever you feel like it. So either answer my question or send our host a direct e – mail, since you obviously feel that he’s available to answer your personal questions on a 24/7 basis. I’ve already stated what would seem an obvious point regarding the post – what else could you be inferring from it?
Dmac (f7884d) — 6/10/2009 @ 9:13 amI don’t understand how it’s good
So two terrorists die in the accident, yet you fail to see how anything good can possibly come from that? Is that honestly your query here, or are you engaging in some kind of moral relativistic baiting?
Dmac (f7884d) — 6/10/2009 @ 9:15 amEven though we all thiunk that he’s out of office, Dick Cheney knew about these terrorists, and ordered the plane destroyed. The incidental casualties among the non-combatants is regrettable, but was unavoidable.
The Dana who doesn't write for The Onion (3e4784) — 6/10/2009 @ 9:23 amDMac: What I’m engaging is ignoring you, since, as far as I know, you continue to not be Patterico.
Myron (98529a) — 6/10/2009 @ 9:29 amDMac: What I’m engaging in is ignoring you, since, as far as I know, you continue to not be Patterico.
Myron (98529a) — 6/10/2009 @ 9:29 amDmac –
frequently involve
Amphipolis (fdbc48) — 6/10/2009 @ 9:45 amYeah, I read A Savage War of pease also. But that was some 50 years ago. Shouldn’t you say frequently involved?
Investigators probably already know if the Airbus was destroyed on impact or broke up or exploded inflight. Most explosives leave residue that points to the source of the bomb materials and with available debris they would know. This link has the official information when it’s released.
http://www.planecrashinfo.com/index.html
As many of you know, Airbus has an unusual flight control philosophy which is unpopular with pilots. If the pilot of a Boeing 747 finds himself in an unusual attitude, he can over-G the aircraft to recover. Over stressing the airframe in this manner can do severe damage, but it beats hitting the ground. Airbus, however, uses a G limiter. No matter what the pilot does with the yoke, the flight controls will not allow an over G.
Airbus’ design philosophies also favor production cost over safety. As you remember, in November of 2001 an American Airlines Airbus hit severe wake turbulence departing JFK. The pilot’s aggressive rudder inputs are believed to have caused the link holding the vertical stabilizer to the fuselage to break. These links were inspected and a number had metal fatigue. The pilot was cited as the cause, but I think Airbus was also at fault.
In light of the flight control design, this pitot-static system problem is critical because the central air data computer calibrates control surface inputs as a function of indicated airspeed. If the airspeed is 100 knots higher than the computer think it is, it may be possible for the pilot to pull the wings off the jet.
arch (085c10) — 6/10/2009 @ 9:57 amDang.
I mean Alistair Horne’s A Savage War of Peace.
Amphipolis (fdbc48) — 6/10/2009 @ 10:02 amDMac: What I’m engaging in is ignoring you, since, as far as I know, you continue to not be Patterico.
Comment by Myron — 6/10/2009 @ 9:29 am
And I hope you don’t mind if Patterico continues to ignore you as much as he would a fly buzzing around his patio. Asshole!
nk (905fe3) — 6/10/2009 @ 10:06 amIt is possible he did (or try to) ditch. Such landings are usually catastrophic — ditching is done when there is no choice; it is not even plan B. It is plan “oh crap, we have no choice”.
Of course, there are other causes that are in need of investigation.
The airspeed indicator malfunction is a distinct possibility, because so many aspects of computerized-flight depend on this parameter. If the airspeed is incorrect, all kinds of faulty computer logic are introduced. This in turn affects instrument readings and flight configurations.
No way to know yet, my prayers with the victims and their families.
Pons Asinorum (9a2065) — 6/10/2009 @ 10:07 amMy brother-in-law, who is a retired United and Navy pilot, pointed out that Airbus is a total fly-by-wire aircraft. He thought it possible that a lightning strike could disable both in-flight control computers and the pilots could not control the plane manually.
My other brother-in-law who flies for American (and formerly the Marines) says “If it’s not Boeing, I’m not going.”
Interesting that the vertical stabilizer was floating and not attached. That was the part that broke off the NY flight that crashed. It is carbon fiber and floats.
Mike K (2cf494) — 6/10/2009 @ 11:03 am“
”
Amen to that…
Bob (99fc1b) — 6/10/2009 @ 11:35 amSpeaking of terrorists, looks like another crazy right-winger is gunning people down today.
At the Holocaust museum, no less.
poon (093c46) — 6/10/2009 @ 11:40 amI don’t buy it, the terrorism angle, that is. For starters, no one has claimed responsibility — and if you don’t claim responsibility, the terrorist act loses quite a bit of its bite.
Second, that is some crazy coincidence. The terrorists detonate their bomb at precisely the moment the aircraft hits weather so bad that it compromises the integrity of the plane?
I sure hope this doesn’t turn into another TWA 800, giving rise to conspiracies that will never cease. That seems inevitable, however.
Jim Lakely (743bf6) — 6/10/2009 @ 11:44 am#21- Double Amen. Boeing builds the best. The Airbus is literally glued together. Like all toy planes.
The Banned in Boston & Pattericoville DCSCA (9d1bb3) — 6/10/2009 @ 11:51 amMyron, next time you ignore someone, try not to address them by name when you announce it in writing and post it twice on a blog comment. It makes the argument a bit more credible. 🙂
carlitos (7d2345) — 6/10/2009 @ 12:10 pmMr Lakely wrote:
Dick Cheney likes to operate quietly; I thought everyone knew that.
The conspiracy-theorist Dana (3e4784) — 6/10/2009 @ 12:19 pmShouldn’t you say frequently involved
Good catch – you are correct. I also thought the film “The Battle for Algiers” was fairly instructional as well, although it’s definitely biased towards the Algerians.
Dmac (f7884d) — 6/10/2009 @ 12:47 pmI don’t know. Do you know he is crazy? Can you prove that? It’s kind of like your Palin argument in the other thread. You seem all doctrinaire about accuracy in some ways, but love to sling the mud when it suits you.
For example, who knew that “right winger” was equivalent to “white supremacist.” Is that what you are saying?
You might as well say that all veterans are crazy, too. Because the shooter claims to be a WWII vet.
Poon, go away. Making partisan comments about a set of attempted murders is as reprehensible as defending rape jokes with spurious claims of “accuracy.”
Eric Blair (0b61b2) — 6/10/2009 @ 12:50 pmLooks like poon is warming up to start dancing on some graves again. What a sick, vile and reprehensible little creature you are. Yesterday, you obfuscate and try to give cover to someone that made a “joke” about raping a 14 year old.
Why did your actual terrorist friends murder that soldier in Arkansas, poon?
JD (b86d0b) — 6/10/2009 @ 1:21 pmAs Charles Johnson correctly notes today at LGF, this incident, coupled with the killing of the abortion doctor, and a couple of other foiled plots, pretty much vindicate that DHS report on imminent right-wing domestic terrorists. At the time, there was a huge hue and cry that the DHS would be observing TEA parties, etc., but there were some real threats.
carlitos (7d2345) — 6/10/2009 @ 1:29 pmIf there was anyone just begging to be banned, it’s the idiot poon – face. Trolls like this only come here to see how far they can push the envelope, then love to complain later how dogmatic and censor – happy the site’s owners are after they’ve been kicked to the curb.
Dmac (f7884d) — 6/10/2009 @ 1:47 pmnk: Very mature, with the name-calling.
carlitos: You’re right. I should have told Dmac I was ignoring his questions, to be precise.
eric blair: The shooter, who is 88, goes in and starts busting out rounds in a museum. I think “crazy” applies.
But you’re correct that “right-winger” and “white supremacist” are not equivalent, though there is often overlap. Like, I would imagine this guy is no fan of the Democrats, least of all the current White House occupant.
Myron (98529a) — 6/10/2009 @ 1:57 pmMyron, get lost. We have enough trolls, here. We’ll call you when we need you.
nk (386fdc) — 6/10/2009 @ 5:56 pmThe publication of this story, by itself spreads negative Islamic stereotypes and therefore, post Cairo 6/4/09, is impermissible.
I apologize if I have inadvertently offended anyone with this comment.
Terry Gain (6b2a64) — 6/10/2009 @ 6:02 pmnk: Very mature, with the name-calling
Oh, I agree – and your behavior in addressing the proprietor of this blog with the expectation of an immediate answer to your profound ignorance is much more mature. Project much, Myron?
Dmac (f7884d) — 6/10/2009 @ 6:07 pmI think what Myron is actually trying to say (albeit quite clumsily) is that the fact that two terrorists also happened to perish in the airline disaster is somehow a very bad thing. All life is precious to our little special guy, even those who rank below plankton in the food chain.
Dmac (f7884d) — 6/10/2009 @ 6:10 pmYes, no jihadi group has claimed responsibility. Still, it could be just two jihad jerks like the guy in Arkansas. Look at what Richard Reid almost accomplished.
Patricia (2183bb) — 6/10/2009 @ 6:42 pmAgence France-Presse.
steve (ed8a3d) — 6/10/2009 @ 6:58 pmMyron likes word games:
So how about this?
“Black religious leaders” and “anti-semites” are not equivalent, though there is often overlap.
I would imagine that Reverend Wright is no fan of Republicans, least of all the last White House occupant.
But I’m sure you will be outraged by that comment, right? Despite Reverend Wright’s comment about “them Jews” today. Or Jesse Jackson’s “Hymietown.” And I’m only getting warmed up on the Nation of Islam.
No one likes that topic. But it is okay to make vile and insulting assumptions about “right wing” people. Heck, it is even okay to make rape jokes about fourteen year old girls on national television. So long as that girl is related to a “right wing” person.
I am so tired of racialism in this nation. And with the PC dimension added, it is even more tiresome.
Eric Blair (0b61b2) — 6/10/2009 @ 7:05 pmnk: You clearly have nothing to say.
Dmac: I did not demand an “immediate answer.” I asked P. a question. You might be surprised that such crazy things happen on blogs the world over.
E. Blair: No, your inaccurate equivalencies neither outrage nor phase me.
Racial hatred and right-wing extremism have a long history together. We all know that, so I won’t play games of pretend with you.
This latest murder, and the Tiller murder, gives credence to that much criticized report by Napolitano. Dangerous, right-wing extremism represents a growing threat in the era of Obama.
Myron (a5d1ef) — 6/10/2009 @ 8:29 pmnk: You clearly have nothing to say.
Do you have anything anyone wants to hear? Asshole!
nk (386fdc) — 6/10/2009 @ 8:33 pmMyron is our new love2008/emperor7.
nk (386fdc) — 6/10/2009 @ 8:41 pmSo, Myron, what does the Army shootings in Arkansas indicate for the era of The Lightworker?
Techie (482700) — 6/10/2009 @ 9:20 pmTechie: The guy who did the Army shooting was a Muslim extremist. The government is already on high alert for them, as they should be.
But I am saying that Napolitano was correct in adding to the high-alert list right-wing extremists. Some people on conservative blogs and talk shows said she was out of line when that report came out. Clearly, she was not, with the death of Tiller and this security guard. There is a real danger.
Myron (a5d1ef) — 6/10/2009 @ 9:32 pmnk: I am only pointing out that you have not had anything to say about the actual issues on this blog. You instead seemed to be obsessed with me. Are you out of work? Is that why you have time to fritter away? Find something constructive to do to fill the time instead of boring us all with your schoolyard antics.
Myron (a5d1ef) — 6/10/2009 @ 9:34 pm“But I am saying that Napolitano was correct in adding to the high-alert list right-wing extremists.”
Myron – Reread that report. Napolitano included veterans, prolife supporters, etc. as people who may ultimately BECOME extremists. She basically smeared half the population rather than pointing to specific groups, but you can continue misharacterizing the report if it pleases you.
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 6/10/2009 @ 10:31 pmSteve quotes Agence France-Presse:
Does that mean the other 214 passengers were suspected terrorists?
The Dana who is a cunning linguist (3e4784) — 6/11/2009 @ 3:36 am“Napolitano included veterans, prolife supporters, etc. as people who may ultimately BECOME extremists.”
And two months later we have a pro-life extremist shoot an abortionist in Wichita. We have a muslim-extremist shoot 2 soldiers, and now we have a neo-nazi extremist shooting up a museum.
The report did NOT classify those in these groups as terrorists. The key word here is extremists. I don’t believe for one second that 99.9% of pro-lifers support Roeder. But the intenssity of their rhetoric encouraged him to act, just like the intensity of environmental rhetoric and the intensity of the animal rights groups encourages extremists in those movements to act.
JEA (dffa7e) — 6/11/2009 @ 3:41 am“And two months later we have a pro-life extremist shoot an abortionist in Wichita.”
JEA – Are you suggesting the report was the trigger, that it pissed these people off? Both individuals had a long, long history of aberrant behavior, including prison time.
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 6/11/2009 @ 5:04 amSome people on conservative blogs and talk shows said she was out of line when that report came out
She was way out of line, and the report was never intended to be released in the first place, but Napolitano released it anyway, in order to smear all veterans and so many other groups that gave no indication regarding the report’s predictions. Why else do you think she was forced to walk back the entire report and her outrageous behavior?
Read the report again, and read the history about prior extremist groups like the Posse Comitas – these types have been around forever in this country, going back to the pre – Revolutionary War in this country.
Dmac (f7884d) — 6/11/2009 @ 6:02 amBut you’re correct that “right-winger” and “white supremacist” are not equivalent, though there is often overlap. Like, I would imagine this guy is no fan of the Democrats, least of all the current White House occupant.
Comment by Myron
So, Myron, if anti-Semites are right wing, does that make Rev Wright a right winger ?
I’m afraid you are no improvement on the usual trolls.
Mike K (2cf494) — 6/11/2009 @ 7:31 amLittle Rock Recruitment Center Shooting….
AD - RtR/OS! (15fd5c) — 6/11/2009 @ 8:08 amDC Museum Shooting….
Both conducted by an ex-con, who is prohibited from possessing firearms and ammunition by Federal and State Law…
So much for gun-control!
daleyrocks, did you read the next paragraph???
JEA (dffa7e) — 6/11/2009 @ 8:12 amThe Left, MSM, and Barcky gin up more outrage over the murder of an abortionist, and the murder of a security guard than over the murder of a US soldier on US soil by a Muslim who was being investigated for ties to terrorist organization. THe difference in the coverage is nothing short of breath-taking.
Myron – How was Eric’s an inaccurate equivalence? Von What’s his name had far more in common with Jeremiah Wright than with the Right.
JD (eee3ad) — 6/11/2009 @ 8:56 amdaleyrocks, did you even glance at the paragraph that followed…?
JEA (dffa7e) — 6/11/2009 @ 9:06 amFor all of the complaining about how DRJ was supposedly going to be leniant on liberals she is awfully hypocritical. A liberal would have been put into moderation for a statement like that (which is why I censored it… I don’t want to take any chances).
antibody (3fcbc6) — 6/11/2009 @ 12:55 pmTry reading the blog for a few months before making any more inane statements like that one.
Dmac (f7884d) — 6/11/2009 @ 3:39 pm“But the intenssity of their rhetoric encouraged him to act, just like the intensity of environmental rhetoric and the intensity of the animal rights groups encourages extremists in those movements to act.”
JEA – Of course I read the paragraphs. I’m just trying to understand what you are trying to say. Are you claiming telepathic powers and saying the rhetoric of varu\ious extrmist groups triggered already demonstrably nutty people to commit more crimes? Are you trying to say that Napolitano’s trmendously vague report was oddly prescient by covering half the population so that it could claim credit for a huge number of crimes committed?
What exactly is your point? Do you even know at this stage since the museum shooter seems more like a lefty?
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 6/11/2009 @ 3:47 pmDaley – It appears the museum shooter was a registered Dem in Maryland. That should torpedo this story.
Guaranteed antibody has posted under other names before.
JD (2efd28) — 6/11/2009 @ 3:56 pmantibody — 6/11/2009 @ 12:55 pm,
You may want to sit down before you read the rest of this comment.
DRJ (180b67) — 6/11/2009 @ 4:36 pm‘
‘
‘
‘
‘
I actually have a life outside of this blog.
Well, that’s pretty nervy of you, DRJ!
🙂
Dana (aedf1d) — 6/11/2009 @ 4:42 pmBoy, do some people have an attitude!
AD - RtR/OS! (15fd5c) — 6/11/2009 @ 4:44 pm“Like, I would imagine this guy is no fan of the Democrats, least of all the current White House occupant.”
Stalin wasn’t a fan of Trotsky.
Dave Surls (02ae9f) — 6/11/2009 @ 4:47 pmMyron poses a trollish question to Patterico. DMac tries to respond to it and Myron tells him to ____ off. That’s not enough for Myron, he has to tell DMac to ____ off one more time. I call Myron out about it. Myron gets his panties in a knot over it. Then Myron switches identities and becomes “antibody”. Then snivels.
nk (5c322b) — 6/11/2009 @ 4:55 pmCan’t we all just get along here?
Rodney King (474dfc) — 6/11/2009 @ 5:19 pmA long what?
nk (b57bfb) — 6/11/2009 @ 6:04 pm“Are you trying to say that Napolitano’s trmendously vague report was oddly prescient by covering half the population so that it could claim credit for a huge number of crimes committed?”
I don’t see any place it says that. It states that some individual veterans, if they are disenfranchised and have emotional isues from the war, might lash out with violence. Most veterans come back with issues, PTSD, physical injuries, depression, yet manage to find ways to go on with their lives. A small percentage wont, unfortunately and will turn to crime or drugs. And a few will turn out like Von Brunn. And if our veterans got the care they deserved after their service to their country, its likely we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
JEA (211d25) — 6/11/2009 @ 6:06 pmUnfortunately for Napolitano, her report was talking about Iraq War vets, and they got an ex-PT Boat skipper to lock up.
AD - RtR/OS! (15fd5c) — 6/11/2009 @ 7:06 pmI guess nobody told the guy that he should run for political office as a Democrat?
JEA – So there is no reason to bring up Napolitano’s report in connection with this shooting because Von Brunn was a WWII vet and 89 years old, whereas Napolitano was discussing a completely different cohort of veterans.
Why did you bring her report up? Again what is your point in relation to this specific shooting? Do you have one?
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 6/11/2009 @ 8:42 pmI originally thought that reports of the passenger manifesto containing some names of known terrorists was merely a coincidence. Then I read the following and I’m starting to suspect this, in fact, may have been an act of sabotage.
If so, it ends up being the ultimate in the most idiotic form of terrorism imaginable, in that the jet, were it brought down due to a bomb, would be a case of purposeful destruction that’s too subtle or obscure to have any of the impact and symbolism that I’m sure a bunch of Islamofascist nuts were striving for.
Also it would be interesting since it would be an act of Islamo terrorism aimed at amoral, you’re-okay-I’m-okay, kum-bah-yah France.
Mark (411533) — 6/11/2009 @ 10:36 pm“Do you even know at this stage since the museum shooter seems more like a lefty?”
This is a great piece of twisted logic. I guess Scott Roeder was a lefty too????
There’s a difference between the conservative movement and far-right nutcases like Von Brunn and Roeder. I guess that distinction in Napolitano’s report is too fine for you folks to understand.
BTW, if the Air France crash had been a terrorist act, I think we would have heard from them by now taking credit.
JEA (dffa7e) — 6/12/2009 @ 5:19 amComment by JD — 6/10/2009 @ 1:21 pm
Letterman said he was referring to the older, of age child. You are making up the rape part. 0/2. Not bad for a conservative.
Hunter (67afac) — 6/12/2009 @ 5:37 amComment by JEA — 6/11/2009 @ 6:06 pm
Some might have issues with the repubs taking away their benefits after they come back. I guess once the soldiers are all used up there is no need to throw any more money at them, eh righties?
Hunter (67afac) — 6/12/2009 @ 5:38 amUnderstood DRJ. Should I assume that you’ve put them into moderation now that I have brought that to your attention? I think this ‘affirmative action’ policy you claim to be advocating with regard to liberal commentatars seems to be less ‘affirmative’ and like a German ‘Aktion’.
antibody (3fcbc6) — 6/12/2009 @ 8:33 am*more like a German…
antibody (3fcbc6) — 6/12/2009 @ 8:34 amHere’s a real liberal policy for ya. You Godwin a thread like you just did, and I call you an asshole. See how this works?
carlitos (7d2345) — 6/12/2009 @ 8:39 amAh, so classy! I think you have been banned here before…
Eric Blair (c39b83) — 6/12/2009 @ 8:40 amModerate Carlitos! I agree with Eric. Carlitos must be a sock puppet of someone who has been banned before. I think we should ban him again. Clearly, he is not very classy.
antibody (3fcbc6) — 6/12/2009 @ 8:43 amHunter – Since you seem to want to defend this, I will bite. The 18-year old was not at the game, the 14 year old was. How is that joke any more tasteful when told about an 18 year old? Since the 14 year old was the one at that game, would that not be statutory rape in NY? While you are at it, maybe you could also explain why saying Palin looks like a slutty stewardess is okay. Maybe you can explain why comparing he daughter, either one, to one of Spitzer’s prostitutes is alright.
This thread is a full-on infestation. Between hunter, antibody, poon, and JEA, though JEA is usually just pompous and preening.
JD (760bc4) — 6/12/2009 @ 9:03 am