Patterico's Pontifications

6/3/2009

Who in 2012??

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:12 pm

So, you’ve had it with mealy-mouthed conservatives like Newt Gingrich, who called Sonia Sotomayor a racist and then walked it back; or Mike Huckabee or Mitt Romney, whom you don’t trust on social issues. You’d love to see Sarah Palin run in 2012, but in the back of your mind you wonder whether she would get run over by the media (again). If Rush or Mark Levin ran for office, you’d vote for them, but they won’t — they’re having too much fun (and making too much money) on the radio.

You think John McCain lost, not because voters rejected the Bush era, but because he just wasn’t conservative enough.

Here’s a chance to test that theory: Dick Cheney for President in 2012.

I’d vote for him. So would you.

And he would lose overwhelmingly.

Still, a doctrinaire conservative can dream, can’t he?

Via Hot Air.

89 Responses to “Who in 2012??”

  1. If Cheney wanted to be President, he’d have run last year.

    Steven Den Beste (99cfa1)

  2. I am far from a doctrinaire conservative; I’m not even a conservative at all. But I’d still vote for Cheney against Obama in a heartbeat.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407)

  3. Count me in.

    DRJ (180b67)

  4. Doesn’t matter, the world will end on 12 December 2012 anyway! ;)

    htom (412a17)

  5. Not sure this was intentional: Cheney … heartbeat.

    I think that this is his biggest drawback. The MSM and his primary opponents would remind us constantly about his pacemakers/operations/etc.

    kaf (525681)

  6. Newt Gingrich lost a lot of credibility in my eyes for purely symbolic (meaning not necessarily philosophical) reasons, when he got snagged by that minor scandal with his ex-wife and girlfriend. So I don’t take him too seriously, one way or the other.

    As for McCain, I believe he lost mainly because enough of the electorate got (and has become) drawn to a sort of “feelings, nothing more than feelings….wo-o-o, wo-o-o, woo, feeelings…” liberalism. Or call it a I-want-my-mommy, I-want-to-be-hugged-and-coddled syndrome.

    BTW, Britain apparently is going through a flip-side version of what’s been happening here in the US. Although a large percentage of the British electorate has solidly and typically liberal/Euro-Socialized biases, the leadership of Britain’s version of the Democrat Party (ie, the Labor Party), after 12 years of rule, has so greatly disenchanted and disgusted the populace — with reports of corruption galore — that current polls indicate many voters will be turning right in upcoming elections.

    Back in this country, and beyond the purely ideological — and focusing on the superficial — Dick Cheney suffers because he seems too grumpy and too old. Of course, I’d have no trouble voting for him over Barry Obama.

    Mark (411533)

  7. And who says I’m a doctrinaire conservative?

    1) Cheney won’t live that long. And he’d lose. Darth.

    2) Gingrich would make a MUCH better Speaker of the House.

    3) Palin doesn’t have the teeth for it. And besides, the Christian thing is soooo 2004.

    If we win in 2012 it will be because socialism has failed. In which case I want the best and brightest econ-aware candidate possible. Which is to say Romney. Since I don’t give a counterfeit %&$* about social issues, this isn’t a problem for me.

    Ticket: Romney-Whitman or Romney-Gingrich

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  8. Is there ANYBODY who wants to speak up for Huckabee?

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  9. Cheney won’t be running in 2012. If he did however he would win convincingly.

    exceller (d9d2b3)

  10. Palin? A lightweight by any standard, so much so that she made Obama and Biden look good in comparison. Gingrich? good on the political philosophy, lousy tactician, too easily outmaneuvered. Rommney? Too Mormon. Whitman? yeah, the party that chased Specter away is going to wrap themselves around someone even more liberal. Cheney? Too gruff and already caricatured as evil personified. Huckabee? A flake.

    But it doesn’t matter that the GOP doesn’t yet have a front runner, or even someone that gets the right excited. The 2012 election will be a referral on Obama: if the public is reasonably satisfied with him, he’ll win no matter who runs against him, if the public has turned on him, the GOP candidate wins, provided that he is reasonably competent.

    steve sturm (3811cf)


  11. If he did however he would win convincingly

    Has anyone ever won the Presidency who had as low an approval rating as Cheney does now?

    steve sturm (3811cf)

  12. When the Obambi Administration implodes, we’ll be looking for the “strong horse”.
    If the situation in AfPak improves, it could well be Patreaus.

    AD - RtR/OS! (4a0d27)

  13. Just my two-cents re Cheney…
    I wouldn’t turn my back on Lynn.

    AD - RtR/OS! (4a0d27)

  14. Is there ANYBODY who wants to speak up for Huckabee?

    Sure–if they ever make a movie about the life and career of William Jennings Bryan, Huckabee would be great for the part–his entire career has been an homage to Bryan’s goofy blend of economic illiteracy as populism and religious fundamentalism.

    If you mean as a candidate for President of the United States, hell no. I’ll take four more years of The One over that particular nightmare, if forced to choose.

    M. Scott Eiland (5ccff0)

  15. Cheney wouldn’t win just because of the heart issues. However, if he could find a great veep I would vote for him in less than a heartbeat. Like, a heartbeat that is quicker than a heartbeat.

    bigcity (6f5ce6)

  16. “And he would lose overwhelmingly.”

    I remember in the 1960s some people saying that Ron Reagan was so far out there, that he would never be taken seriously as a presidential candidate.

    Dave Surls (bb8611)

  17. Not sure this was intentional: Cheney … heartbeat.

    Not intentional! I would have said something different had I known the implication.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407)

  18. I’d vote for any Cheney – Liz, Dick or Lynne. Smart, conservative and full of brass.

    Dana (aedf1d)

  19. The 2012 election will be a referral on Obama: if the public is reasonably satisfied with him, he’ll win no matter who runs against him, if the public has turned on him, the GOP candidate wins, provided that he is reasonably competent.

    Sorta true, as a mirror image of the 2008 election which the MSM had set up as a referral on Bush. The studied 6-year anti-Bush MSM campaign, in which we were given derogatory news on an urgent and daily basis, practically guaranteed that whoever the Democrats ran would win.

    However, the media is still reporting on Obama in full-fawning mode, and it will be months before we begin to see reports on a President instead of a God. Therefore the Republicans, in order to make any headway, will need to posit some credible goals and principles which differ from the Democratic hogwallow – and they will need to get them before the public independently of the MSM. So far, Dick Cheney’s voice is nearly alone in being clearly heard along those lines.

    Current Republican fundraising literature is excruciatingly reactionary. “See what those horrible Democrats are doing? We must stop them! Send money!”

    The space where goals and principles should appear in that literature is a total vaccuum to date. Unless the Republicans can get some articulate spokesmen BESIDES Dick Cheney into the public eye, and unless they can offer the public a credible alternative to the economic and political disaster being imposed on us by the Democrats, the next election will be another rout.

    The MSM will run against GWB for the next thirty years, as it did against Herbert Hoover. It’s up to the Republicans to man up and develop a campaign, of which one function must be to punch through the preprogrammed Democratic din of the MSM. Dick Cheney’s not Superman – let other cogent voices get mobilized and be heard.

    Insufficiently Sensitive (a939d1)

  20. I still wanna see Fred Thompson in the Oval Office, but I know it won’t ever happen…

    So with that in mind, I would like to announce the formation of the following…

    The People for Patrick Frey for the Office of the President of the United States of America

    Scott Jacobs (90ff96)

  21. Cheney will not run, so this hypothetical is really irrelevant.

    JD (45f9ae)

  22. Julius Caesar and Mark Antony 2012.

    Especially Antony: anybody who’s ruthless enough to nail a senator’s head and hands to the speaker’s podium on the Senate floor has got my vote.

    MarkJ (d2394a)

  23. My money’s on Tim Pawlenty in 2012.

    poon (093c46)

  24. “nail a senator’s head and hands to the speaker’s podium”

    The Romans had some pretty sensible customs.

    Dave Surls (bb8611)

  25. How about Lynne Cheney ? Younger. Just as Conservative. The people who hate us “evil WHITE MALES” would love her. Why not a Conservative woman president ? Why not show that we are even more “progressive” than we are given credit for ? I have faith that she would not go all knocky knee also.

    DaveinPhoenix (699f08)

  26. Nothing wrong with letting Cheney do the heavy lifting for as long as he feels like doing it.
    Cheney comes off well in interviews and speeches. The more he is out there and lets his personal life be opened; likes to fish, loves his lesbiam daughter and supports gay marriage, he wins over a good portion of people who currently don’t know who he really is.
    Cheney comes off as sober, direct, experienced and is clearly not the man the media has led America to believe is Darth Vader.
    The public will see right through that if he’s out there.
    Cheney should refer to President Obama as “the President” and criticize away in that sober serious voice.
    Cheney can damage Obama and so far is the only Republican who has the chops to do it.

    SteveG (c99c5c)

  27. I like Gingrich, but I think he’s too damaged politically to run for national office again. If there is a Republican winner for 2012, he isn’t yet on the horizon. Limbaugh is the de-facto leader of the Republican party because there ARE NO Republican leaders. Agreed that, if we win, it will be because the country is so sick of Obama that ANY adult will look good.

    Chuck Roast (86ec9f)

  28. You would vote for Rush? I don’t even consider myself a moderate Republican and even I see Rush as being most of what’s wrong with the party.

    tjwilliams (831c6e)

  29. Chuck Roast – Simply by claiming Limbaugh is the de-facto leader of the Republican party does not make it so. But, nice try.

    JD (45f9ae)

  30. I’m not even a Republican and even I see Rush as being most of what’s right with the party.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407)

  31. Comment by DaveinPhoenix — 6/3/2009 @ 8:43 pm

    I’m a Liz Cheney fan and would consider her but not because she’s a woman (that’s just frosting) but because from what I’ve read and seen, she is a serious force to be reckoned with, uncompromising conservative, and has a fearless confidence. She may have the backbone that is missing from the right.

    When asked about running for office, she said:

    “It’s not something I’m focused on right now, I do have five little kids and I’m helping my dad to write his memoirs,” Cheney said Tuesday in an interview on Fox News and posted on ThinkProgress.org.

    “So I have a pretty full plate right now, but it’s certainly something I could,” she said before getting interrupted.

    Dana (aedf1d)

  32. What is surprising about the Romans is that they went from a Republic, where people would rather have both hands cut off than to live under an emperor, to one generation later – upon the death of Caesar – immediately looking for a replacement, instead of returning to what they had been.

    I think it should be a tale we should study closely.

    Scott Jacobs (90ff96)

  33. I would like to see cheney in a primary fight.

    imdw (41b4a1)

  34. I’m not prone to namecalling…

    But….

    tjwilliams, you’re completely out of it….and you consider yourself a conservative???

    While I freely accept that Rush would not win, because the media would Palin him even more than they did Palin, he is a conservative….

    And, we need a conservative leader more than ever right now….

    reff (ee9f7a)

  35. I would certainly vote for Cheney and I especially like Liz Cheney. Liz can actually debate issues and sound intelligent. Whether or not Cheney can win depends on many factors. If Obama is a disaster ( as he seems to be) Cheney could defeat him. Cheney has also set Obama up to take a fall if we have another major terrorist attack.

    Dennis D (ae900a)

  36. All those who dismiss Palin do so at their own peril.

    Death (1808e2)

  37. Dick Cheney. Floats like a butterfly, stings like a bee. Really knows how to kick Obama to the curb.

    Vermont Neighbor (efb5a9)

  38. All those who dismiss Palin do so at their own peril.

    I’m with you. Sarah Palin remains the media’s #1 obsession for a reason. During the campaign, I thought the ridiculous editing and hatchet work still couldn’t hide her obvious superiority over Obama. He’s an organizer. She’s a governor; a reformer. She’s got my vote.

    Vermont Neighbor (efb5a9)

  39. Keep your eye on a young Congressman named Jeb Hensarling. Hensarling is one of a number of young, and very bright, not well known Republicans who seem to be asking all the right questions in hearings but never get much CSpan time.

    And remember this, no one, and I do mean no one, was asking who the defacto head of the Democratic Party was in May ’01 or May ’05. It damn sure wasn’t a little known junior senator from Illinois. So all this thrashing about over who is the head of the GOP has got to stop. Why would we even want to put someone out there now only to have them savaged by the MSM for the next three years?

    And don’t count out the governors of South Carolina and Louisiana. Yes, I know, Jindal’s TV response was pathetic but if you ever see this guy in person, unscripted, he is an Apollo to Obama’s Wile E. Cayote.

    New blood is out there. It is more conservative (more like Reagan), articulate and quietly working behind the scenes. And back them up with Huckabee’s humor, Newt’s brilliance and Mark Levin’s legal prowess, and you have a winner.

    My guess is Obama is going to bury himself under massive bailouts and entitlement programs that in four years Americans will wake up to. And while Obama is trying to recreate 1934, with an equally willing press, remember, FDR didn’t have the internet reporting on his socialist views.

    retire05 (15e301)

  40. How about a (any) Cheney/Palin ticket ?

    DaveinPhoenix (699f08)

  41. NEWT NEWT NEWT NEWT NEWT

    debkaroni (bbd2be)

  42. by 2012 the country will be ready for an Obatomy

    debkaroni (bbd2be)

  43. If Cheney wanted to be President, he’d have run last year.

    I suppose Cheney’s autobiography would be titled, “I Never Wanted to be President of Anything”

    Steverino (1b3695)

  44. reff,
    tjwilliams, you’re completely out of it….and you consider yourself a conservative???

    Parsing alert: tjwilliams didn’t claim to be a conservative. The precise words were: “I don’t even consider myself a moderate Republican.”

    Obama could truthfully say the same thing.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407)

  45. Are you kidding me? Talk about ensuring the loss of a presidential election on an epic scale. That man is pure political poison! Although he may have helped prevent some terrorist attacks due to his policies and influence with the president he also supported policies that most libertarians and few conservatives could support in respect to civil liberties. Unfortunately, he also helped strengthen the executive branch in ways that Obama now uses against his opponents. I wish he would just shut his yap and go away quietly into the night. Cheney for Pres??? Yikes, I have had enough of neocons to last a lifetime! How about someone who is like Ron Paul but a little more appealing. My guess is a dark horse candidate will emerge in the next year or so.

    T. L. Dreyer (0104c2)

  46. I wish he would just shut his yap and go away quietly into the night.

    Nothing doing. The proggs are maligning his record, then squealing like stuck pigs when he steps up to defend it. He shouldn’t let up for a minute. Let GWB do the classy statesman holding his counsel bit. And SteveG is absolutely right, the more Cheney talks, the harder it is to pin this absurd caricature of evil the left has created on him.

    The media establishment never want to talk about the disarray of the Democrats when they lose; Republicans should ignore their attempts to name a figurehead so they can demonize him or her.

    They can set up their stupid little games, we don’t have to play them.

    Mars vs Hollywood (f062b9)

  47. Say what you will about Cheney, when he talks people listen.

    Cheney and Gingrich plowing the field for a handsome young conservative is the right approach.

    It is up to the RNC to 1) find a basket of eligible folks and 2) pick a bright one who is light on their feet.

    Sad to say but Jindal and Palin are not it. Ryan from Wisconsin looks really good but he needs to run for Gov or something IMHO.

    Anyone from California who could take the State in 20212 and turnaround that election map??

    HeavenSent (1e97ff)

  48. Moby alert:
    Cheney for Pres??? Yikes, I have had enough of neocons to last a lifetime!

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407)

  49. With attempts to discredit Rush and Cheney’s effectiveness a dismal failure, an MSM columnist forgets the code and broadcast an urgent alarm in the clear:

    Rush and Newt Are Winning

    By E.J. Dionne Jr.
    Thursday, June 4, 2009
    A media environment that tilts to the right is obscuring what President Obama stands for and closing off political options that should be part of the public discussion.

    Yes, you read that correctly: If you doubt that there is a conservative inclination in the media, consider which arguments you hear regularly and which you don’t. When Rush Limbaugh sneezes or Newt Gingrich tweets, their views ricochet from the Internet to cable television and into the traditional media. It is remarkable how successful they are in setting what passes for the news agenda.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407)

  50. I wholly agree regarding the sentiments about Ryan – but I strongly disagree about his required “experience.” The man’s been in the House for many years at this point (he won his seat while still quite young), and has a legislative record that Obama could only dream of when he ran for POTUS.

    Dmac (1ddf7e)

  51. Cheney won’t run His health is a major issue and would keep him out, aside from the fact his popularity is lower than a snake’s belly. 3-1/2 years is a long time. Remember how popular Bush was after the Gulf war? No Dems wanted to take him on. A year later the economy had tanked and we wound up with Billy-boy for 8 years.

    Historically the most successful candidates for president have come from state governors.

    JEA (9231a4)

  52. I actually do consider myself a conservative. I was wrong when I called Rush “most” of what’s wrong with the Republicans. But he’s part of the problem. His combativeness and divisiveness have driven away a lot of people and keep people from coming on. I think the larger problem with the Republican Party is the social conservatives who glommed on during the Reagan administration and turned the Republicans from the party of Goldwater to the party of Bush. But we can’t keep alienating voters with the divisive rhetoric of people like Rush and Ann Coulter. What’s the point of having a pure conservative party if nobody votes for it?

    tjwilliams (831c6e)

  53. Since we were going to lose anyway, it would at least have been more fun watching an un-apologetic Dick Cheney get “all up in Obama’s kitchen”, as he’s clearly shown he can, than watch “Sad Grandpa” McCain scold his supporters for mentioning Teh One’s middle name.

    And after losing Dick Cheney would then would have gone off to retirement, rather than return to his Senate sinecure to remind us over and over again why he lost in the first place.

    Or, shorter version: “You decide — Liz Cheney or Meghan McCain?”

    furious (a74982)

  54. This is easy.

    Someone post a list of sitting Republican governors who are not Palin, and let’s choose one.

    Amphipolis (fdbc48)

  55. #52. And the “Party of Goldwater” did so well in ’64. Yeah, more of that please.

    I smell a Moby. Mewling about turning out the movement’s fighters, blaming the base for taking back the House and Senate in ’94. Classic seminar caller/poster talking points.

    furious (a74982)

  56. Excluding Schwarzenegger since he is disqualified AND he is not native born,

    Bob Riley – Alabama
    Jan Brewer – Arizona
    Jodi Rell – Connecticut
    Charlie Crist – Florida
    Sonny Perdue – Georgia
    Linda Lingle – Hawaii
    Butch Otter – Idaho
    Mitch Daniels – Indiana
    Bobby Jindal – Louisiana
    Tim Pawlenty – Minnesota
    Haley Barbour – Mississippi
    Dave Heineman – Nebraska
    Jim Gibbons – Nevada
    John Hoeven – North Dakota
    Donald Carcieri – Rhode Island
    Mark Sanford – South Carolina
    Mike Rounds – South Dakota
    Rick Perry – Texas
    Jon Huntsman – Utah
    Jim Douglas – Vermont

    Amphipolis (fdbc48)

  57. By Romney-Whitman I mean Meg Whitman, Ebay founder. Forgot about the NJ Governor RINO.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  58. One of those names will be the man (or woman).

    Who can be easily struck from the list?

    Amphipolis (fdbc48)

  59. Assuming that Ear Leader is unable to right the economy, and assuming that all of us “hoarders and wreckers” are still free to move about the country, then folks will be looking for a sane, sober, competent replacement.

    I still see that as Romney.

    It’s the economy, stupid.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  60. At this moment, Cheney would lose overwhelmingly. But give Obama a chance. He’s undermined the economy, made foreign policy both opaque and incoherent and triggered an inflationary spiral that combined with higher energy costs and new taxes will so damage the quality of life for the average American that not even the universal and active support of the lapdog media will be able to save him. By 2012, even McCain might beat him.

    By next April, when gas is at $5+ a gallon and millions find out they have to pay back some, if not all, of their stimulus rebate, the reality of Democratic rule will hit home. Since 1994, we have been told that Democrats would solve our problems if they gained power. They have the power now and the problems are getting worse. They will continue to do so. I have complete faith in the Democrats. They will provide enough misery that 2012 will be 1980 all over again. Bill Clinton was saved in 1996 by Newt Gingrich and the Republican Congress limiting his damage. Even a big GOP win in 2010 won’t get rid of the Democratic majorities in Congress. I don’t think Cheney will run but by 2012, who knows.

    Ken Hahn (44f1af)

  61. #58,

    OUT
    Crist — squish.
    Jindal (for now) — needs seasoning.
    Perry — barely gets along with home-state R’s (see “Kay Bailey”)
    Huntsman — working for Obie now.
    Lingle — something controversial I vaguely remember but can’t totally recall.
    Palin — will get the Clarence Thomas treatment (but for White Women) for the remainder of her public life.

    IN
    Watch out for Barbour and Sanford, although the National Party may want to deepen its bench beyond Southerners.

    furious (a74982)

  62. Gov’s…
    Didn’t Huntsman of UT accept an overseas appointment from BHO?
    Plus, Meg Whitman is no Conservative – she might be able to win in CA, but her positions on many issues would be anathema in the Red-States.

    AD - RtR/OS! (1f03ac)

  63. #55 – Yes, because espousing fiscal conservatism and embracing social liberals has never worked. People like Limbaugh seem to go after anyone who doesn’t agree with them 100%, yet wasn’t it Reagan who said “my 80% friend is not my enemy”? The Republican party needs to be built on a base of fiscal conservatism, otherwise we come off as hypocrites. Nobody cares when the Democrats run $2 trillion deficits because it’s expected. Republicans need to be believable when they call themselves “the party of small government”.

    tjwilliams (831c6e)

  64. Although a large percentage of the British electorate has solidly and typically liberal/Euro-Socialized biases, the leadership of Britain’s version of the Democrat Party (ie, the Labor Party), after 12 years of rule, has so greatly disenchanted and disgusted the populace — with reports of corruption galore — that current polls indicate many voters will be turning right in upcoming elections.

    Tony Blair used to be a shining star in British politics, as late as 2005, if I recall.

    Michael Ejercito (365b6d)

  65. Although a large percentage of the British electorate has solidly and typically liberal/Euro-Socialized biases, the leadership of Britain’s version of the Democrat Party (ie, the Labor Party), after 12 years of rule, has so greatly disenchanted and disgusted the populace — with reports of corruption galore — that current polls indicate many voters will be turning right in upcoming elections.

    Tony Blair used to be a shining star in British politics, as late as 2005, if I recall.

    Michael Ejercito (365b6d)

  66. “…Limbaugh seem to go after anyone who doesn’t agree with them 100%…”

    Do we even know the party affiliation that Rush has marked on his voter registration?

    And, since he’s not running for any political office, why does he have to curry favor with those he disagrees with?

    AD - RtR/OS! (1f03ac)

  67. How about Cheney/Cheney in ’12?

    metalhead (42282a)

  68. AD – He doesn’t have to curry favor with anyone, but when people set him up as the de facto head of the Republican Party it sends a bad message to people who are turned off by his style or his message.

    tjwilliams (831c6e)

  69. If BHO and his minions announced that tjwilliams was the defacto head of the American Nazi Party (used only for example, since I have no more proof of your membership in the ANP than the WH has of Rush’s membership in the GOP), why would we believe them?
    One of Rush’s foils on the radio is Barbra Steisand, who – as most know – is a reliable Lefty, but no-one would consider the “leader” of the Democrat Party (though she is a considerable influence, particularly within the Hollyweird community). Would you believe Rush if he announced that Barbra was the titular leader, or defacto leader, of the Democrats?
    Don’t fall for the WH propaganda.
    The difference between Conservative and Liberals, is that Conservatives actually believe that the average American is a pretty smart fellah, and not some brain-dead zombie (Oops, there I go talking about Democrats again).

    AD - RtR/OS! (1f03ac)

  70. Fair enough, but the fact that Patterico said “If Rush or Mark Levin ran for office, you’d vote for them, but they won’t” shows me that there are a lot of people out there (or in here) who would like to see him in a leadership role. Rush is an entertainer. He makes a living by pissing people off. I just don’t think that’s the kind of person who should be the loudest voice in the party.

    tjwilliams (cb1b1c)

  71. You gotta go with a governor. We are down to 14. We can do better than that.

    What do we know about the three New Englanders?

    Jodi Rell – Connecticut
    Donald Carcieri – Rhode Island
    Jim Douglas – Vermont

    Vermont has the population of a small city. I say Douglas is out.

    Amphipolis (fdbc48)

  72. “…I just don’t think that’s the kind of person who should be the loudest voice in the party.”
    Comment by tjwilliams — 6/4/2009 @ 11:13 am

    Again I ask: What evidence do you have that Rush is a member of the GOP (registered voter) other than the WH propaganda that has elevated him to a straw-man for the GOP?

    AD - RtR/OS! (1f03ac)

  73. Do you guys really think the country is clamoring for a Bible-thumping conservative?

    Me, I think they’d vote for the Devil Incarnate if he could right the economy. Oh, wait…

    Kevin Murphy (805c5b)

  74. Please also note that if we had run Romney this time, he would have won; given his economic expertise he would have been the man of the hour.

    Kevin Murphy (805c5b)

  75. Seriously? That’s like saying Keith Olbermann isn’t a leading voice in the Democratic Party just because he’s not a registered Democrat. Rush is the loudest conservative (and self-described leader of the conservative movement). And given that there isn’t much left of the party except for the “pure” conservatives, yes, I’d say he is the de facto leader of many of the people who make up the party.

    tjwilliams (50e496)

  76. Keith Olbermann…
    How many times has Keith been the featured speaker at a major political gathering?
    Does he get invited to gatherings of the SDS, ACLU, ACT-UP, etc?
    KO is a pompous gasbag who has never been right about anything, including most of the sports stories he used to be noted for.
    Rush was the keynote speaker at a single gathering of a Conservative group, but not the Republican party, and has never claimed to be the “head” or “leader” of the GOP, except as that image was foisted upon the body-politic by the Axelrod Mafia, and provided him a comedic foil to engage his philosophical opponents with.
    You have accepted the strawman that Axelrod has constructed, and seem to be incapable of seeing the reality that it obscures.

    AD - RtR/OS! (1f03ac)

  77. I actually do consider myself a conservative.

    Sure you do – btw, you forgot to add in the obligatory “I used to be a conservative, but I voted for blah, blah, blah.”

    But he’s part of the problem. His combativeness and divisiveness have driven away a lot of people and keep people from coming on

    For the last time – Rush is JUST AN ENTERTAINER, HE’S NOT RUNNING FOR ANYTHING, you ignorant git. Nice try at setting up numerous strawmen, though.

    That’s like saying Keith Olbermann isn’t a leading voice in the Democratic Party just

    WTF are you talking about, Moby? This is the worst example of lame threadjacking we’ve seen here yet. Take a seat in the back with the dunce cap until you’ve learned how to debate an issue without the tinfoil hat on that pinhead.

    Dmac (1ddf7e)

  78. You’re worrying about Romney and Huckabee’s social credentials while supporting a guy who is an outspoken supporter of civil unions? Might as well stick Andrew Sullivan on the ballot while you’re at it.

    jvarisco (be0edb)

  79. For the last time – Rush is JUST AN ENTERTAINER, HE’S NOT RUNNING FOR ANYTHING, you ignorant git. Nice try at setting up numerous strawmen, though.

    I know Rush is an entertainer. In fact, I’m pretty sure I’ve said as much: “Rush is an entertainer. He makes a living by pissing people off.” I know he is not running for anything, and you can deny it all you want, but the administration is not the only group of people who see Rush as the leader of the conservative movement. This isn’t a matter of fact, this is a matter of perception. His is the loudest voice in the conservative movement and that, given his overall (purposeful) boorishness, makes him the most quoted conservative out there. You may not think he’s the head of anything and I certainly don’t believe he speaks for me (though I do agree with him much of the time), but there is the perception (again, shared by more than just the White House) that he has become the de facto head of the conservative movement, and thus the Republican party. And so far, few conservatives of republicans are doing much to assuage the public of that view.

    WTF are you talking about, Moby? This is the worst example of lame threadjacking we’ve seen here yet. Take a seat in the back with the dunce cap until you’ve learned how to debate an issue without the tinfoil hat on that pinhead.

    WTF is with the “Moby” shit? I was trying to make the point that just because Rush is or isn’t (I honestly don’t know) a Republican doesn’t mean that people don’t think he is. The point I’ve been trying to make for the last 4 hours is that the facts don’t matter in this instance. It’s about perception. People believe that Rush is the leader of the conservatives and that can cause problems, not because he’s wrong, but because he’s an ass (and gets paid to be an ass), and that can turn a lot of people off at a time when we should be trying to get more people on board.

    And I realize that this discussion has gotten way off topic and I really didn’t intend then. For my part, I voted Romney in the primary, so I could definitely get behind his run in 2012.

    tjwilliams (cb1b1c)

  80. Rush would win in a landslide if he ran promising free Oxycontin for everyone.

    David Ehrenstein (41ea29)

  81. Hey, how about Mary Cheney?

    She’s a lesbian AND she supports torture.

    David Ehrenstein (41ea29)

  82. “Is there ANYBODY who wants to speak up for Huckabee?”

    - Kevin Murphy

    I do.

    Huckabee seems to be what I often consider myself to be first and foremost, in the political realm or any other: a Christian.

    The populism he speaks seems to stem from a conviction that it is our responsibility, either as Christians or as Good People, to take care of our proverbial widows and orphans, rather than adhering to the “if you die of starvation it’s your own damn fault” mindset that I think is all too common in the political language of modern conservativism. Whether or not he and I agree on the best way of taking care of those proverbial widows and orphans – which on a few points I’d assure you we do not – is secondary to the fact that I think he actually intends to help people in need through whatever means he can, because his religion says that he should. It’s the right kind of Christian crusade, in my mind.

    On social issues: while I would argue with the man regarding rendering unto Caesar what is Caesar’s in regards to Constitutional guarantees of equality (i.e. gay marriage/civil unions), I agree with him on restricting abortion. I’m “pro-life”.

    And he’s not Romney, who I think is more or less a scumbag.

    Leviticus (20b7ac)

  83. Shez running.
    Have a lissen.
    Speech therapy to cure that emminently mockable Heartland Pageant Speak.

    wheeler's cat (60a6ff)

  84. Huckabee, a port suckling Elmer Gantry with Jimmy Carter’s foreign policy instincts, who waged sectarian warfare against Romney, crowding out any competitor to McCain, helped finish off Guiliani, a really worthy candidate, who broke the back of the mob, who brought a seemingly untamable city from the brink.

    Why did we have hesitate, Cheney was the best candidate with thirty years experience,before becoming Vice President. But they painted him as Darth Vader, he’s had six heartaches, that doesn’t phase him. He’s kind of a Colonel Jessup, sadly people ‘cant handle the truth’. So we ended up with McCain, the media’s candidate, because he attacked practically every faction of the Republican coalition. So almost by a process of elimination we ended up with a candidate no one really wanted So out of desperation, the one good thing he did was pick the freshest most authentic
    candidate for VP. Because she bagged much of the dormant party establishment, and rode the wave of reform. So she was savaged by the Axelrod crew, who have never dared to have a fair fight, caricatured by a ditzy Second City comedianne who repeated brutally edited interview bits. Yet she fought as if the nation’s fate was on the line, because it was. Because unlike much of these characters, Gingrich included, she doesn’t mouth
    words, she walks the walk. Because belief in faith
    and family, prevents her from getting a swelled head, despite everything she doesn’t see the GOP
    as a lost cause, on every issue you can practically name of, she has been right. And for that they have tried to bankrupt her under a blizzard of ethics complaints, all dismissed but at a cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars, personally and to the state’s coffers. ‘We really dodged a bullet there’, and we ended up with the mirror image of Cheney, with Biden, a figure respected by no one, not least of which
    is his record of singularly bad calls from the TAPs line (against) author of FISA and VAWA, the War Powers Act, against the contras, the MX, the first Gulf War, for Iraqi partition

    narciso (996c34)

  85. It is Conservatives who emphasize private charity over public charity, as not only better for the recipients, but for the society at large.

    The Left wants the govt to take on these burdens, the better to cause those in need to abandon their independance and spirit of self-reliance.
    For, in the end, it is all about control.

    AD - RtR/OS! (1f03ac)

  86. Amphipolis:

    Off that list, I think Tim Pawlenty is the guy to go with.

    Leviticus (20b7ac)

  87. Dick Cheney today in The Spectator, no mea culpa’s for him….

    http://www.spectator.co.uk/print/the-magazine/features/3665648/apologise-for-torture-thats-not-appropriate.thtml

    AD - RtR/OS! (b0c533)

  88. Run a moderate. You win. Run a conservative, you lose. The United States has moved on from the Reaganesque conservative mystique. It’s old school. And just plain old. No appeal to the young in this new century.

    EYEONPOWER (9d1bb3)


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