Oilfield Service and Drilling Companies Respond to Hope and Change
[Guest post by DRJ]
The two largest offshore drilling companies, one of the largest oilfield service companies, and other major firms have announced plans to relocate their corporate offices to Switzerland:
“Noble Corp. today became the latest in a recent string of Houston oil and gas firms to announce plans to move their corporate headquarters to Switzerland, a change experts said is cheifly for tax purposes. The world’s second largest offshore drilling contractor, now incorporated in the Cayman Islands and run from Sugar Land [Texas], said its board has approved the change, and now will put the proposal to shareholders and the Cayman courts.
***
The announcement came the same day Transocean, the world’s largest offshore driller, completed the process of changing its incorporation from the Cayman Islands to Switzerland. With the change, CEO Robert Long and other top officers will leave Houston to run the company from a new European headquarters.Last week, Houston oil field services giant Weatherford International announced plans to reincorporate in Switzerland and move its CEO, Bernard J. Duroc-Danner, and other top officers there. Shareholders have not yet approved the change.
And other companies, including Tyco International and construction firm Foster Wheeler, have also recently announced plans to reincorporate in Switzerland.”
The article notes Nabors Drilling, the world’s largest land driller, is also expected to move. The moves are aimed at protecting the companies from anticipated changes in U.S. tax policies:
“Chiefly, the moves are designed to preserve tax benefits the companies enjoyed from being domiciled in countries like Bermuda and the Cayman Islands with favorable corporate tax rules, said Pierre Conner, an industry analyst with Capital One Southcoast in New Orleans.
“Now, what we’re finding is those companies feel there are better tax protection in Switzerland than in these countries,” he said. “So they’re going ahead and making another step to protect the current tax structures that they have,” Conner said.
Noble, which moved its incorporation from Delaware to the Cayman Islands, currently has an effective tax rate of about 19 percent, said Angie Sedita, industry analyst with Macquarie Capital, in a note to investors today.
Lawmakers have threatened to close tax loopholes that allow U.S. companies to benefit from incorporating in offshore tax havens while operating from the U.S. But Switzerland has tax treaties with the U.S. that would protect companies even if the laws change.”
Companies are also moving to be closer to emerging markets where oil and gas drilling and production are encouraged:
“In addition, the move will put Noble closer to a faster-growing customer base in the eastern hemisphere, where more than half of its revenue comes from today.
Last year, Houston oil field services firm Halliburton Co. cited similar reasons for establishing a dual headquarters in Dubai and moving CEO Dave Lesar there.”
I would encourage these companies to move if I were a shareholder. There’s no future in the U.S. for the oil and gas industry and that means there’s no realistic near-term energy future for America.
— DRJ
This is nothing new. These loopholes have gone on long enough, its time to close them all up and make these companies play on a level playing field.
These are the same businesses that republicans have fought to protect… they love this country so much! So much in fact that they flee its taxes and move HQ to other nations! Those same taxes that are used primarily to protect US citizens. How dishonorable. GOD BLESS THE MIGHTY DOLLAR!
Justin (0108cc) — 12/19/2008 @ 6:46 pmSo, do you all think that Justin just does not understand, or chose not to understand the point of the post? Or, maybe he just felt like ranting a bit …
Carry on …
JD (7f8e8c) — 12/19/2008 @ 7:06 pmIt will be very difficult for Henry Waxman, et al, to subpoena executives whose companies are incorporated in Switzerland, and whose HQ’s are there also.
Another Drew (efe318) — 12/19/2008 @ 7:13 pmThis is just the latest reaction to the unfavorable tax and regulatory environment that has been bubbling and brewing in this country for some time. Why would any energy company want to be here if you can’t exploit existing resources, or search for new ones?
And Justin, corporations are neither liberal or conservative, honorable or non-patriotic; they are in the business to make money for their investors and their first responsibility is their fiduciary responsibility to those investors.
The U.S. Congress created this mess, now they will reap what they have sown!
Comment by JD — 12/19/2008 @ 7:06 pm
Another Drew (efe318) — 12/19/2008 @ 7:14 pmIf he follows-up, we will know whether or not he is serious, ill-informed, or just another troll.
This post would have gone over Justin’s head even if he had Blagojevich hair.
SPQR (26be8b) — 12/19/2008 @ 7:22 pmAD – I am taking bets …
JD (7f8e8c) — 12/19/2008 @ 7:25 pmBesides the tax problems, why would oil companies stay in a country where drilling for oil is banned? But we have to bail out the automakers!
Patricia (ee5c9d) — 12/19/2008 @ 7:34 pmComment by Patricia — 12/19/2008 @ 7:34 pm
No one ever said politics was based on logic.
Another Drew (efe318) — 12/19/2008 @ 7:35 pmDRJ–
You should encourage them to hire a private army as well.
It’s bold talk, until their assets someplace are nationalized and/or the oil fields they’ve contracted to service are seized. (Libya is a good example, although I’m biased as I have some personal knowledge and first hand experience on that mess.) Then they cry for help. Usually to the United States military who inevitably picks up the tab.
It’s an old joke in the oil industry is that the stars stitched in the flags sewn on the shoulders American troops are Texaco Stars.
Oil men have always known the real money is in establishing long term contracts operating, servicing and maintaining oil field infrastructure than on that actual product itself. Where these companies are headquartered is less and less relevant in today’s world— until their offices and field assets are surrounded by troops.
Investment capital is like electricity- it follows the path of least resistence. Best they move to a place that’s well grounded and insulated. Otherwise, the next time their assets and family need rescued, they can call on the Swiss Guard to save them and not the Marines… or the CIA.
For decades, U.S. companies were shut out of servicing oil fields they initially developed due to American foreign policy restrictions. German, French, Italian, Russian and other suppliers picked up the business. Dealing with oily dictators was a no-no to Ford, Carter, Reagan and so on. Ideology and oil didnt mix until China stirred.
Let ’em move. And let’em take their chances lock, stock[holder] and [oil] barrel.
DCSCA (d8da01) — 12/19/2008 @ 8:03 pmHey, what do we care, we’re just another oil buyer in a world of oil buyers.
Another Drew (efe318) — 12/19/2008 @ 8:08 pmAnyway, it’s only the Libtards who think we trade blood for oil.
#10- Blood for oil field service contracts is more accurate.
DCSCA (d8da01) — 12/19/2008 @ 8:09 pmWhen was the last time that happened?
Another Drew (efe318) — 12/19/2008 @ 8:15 pmDidn’t the Iraqi govt sign new contracts with EU companies?
Every piece of oil-rig infrastructure should have self-destruct mechanisms and radio burn-outs installed.
luagha (3471f3) — 12/19/2008 @ 8:56 pmAD – Save your breath with that one. Hilarity does not ensue.
JD (7f8e8c) — 12/19/2008 @ 9:00 pmIndeed. Why spend money on something that is treated with all but open hostility?
Oil companies are opting to not start exploration for new fields, instead focusing on spending that money defending against lawsuits.
We haven’t build a new refinery in this country in ages, and not because they don’t WANT to, but because of the red-tape and legal challenges involved.
Brilliant! Let the US companies spend the money devloping a site, and then prevent them from making money off their investment!! GENIUS!
Do you, by chance, wonder why I think you’re an idiot? That’s why.
Scott Jacobs (90ff96) — 12/19/2008 @ 9:01 pmDCSCA,
I can’t make sense of anything you said and I’m not in the mood to decipher it — now or ever.
DRJ (803bba) — 12/19/2008 @ 9:13 pmDRJ – You didn’t even get any flash card math thrown at you by DCSCA.
Don’t you know who he thinks he is?
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 12/19/2008 @ 10:34 pmWell, we have now protected forever the right of rich Malibu inhabitants to have an unobstructed view.
That’s something.
Patricia (ee5c9d) — 12/19/2008 @ 11:23 pm#16- Smart.
Dont cross swords on this topic.
Regurgitating GOP talking points is not a sound platform to use in this area.
DCSCA (d8da01) — 12/20/2008 @ 12:55 am#15- Scott- Yeah, that Reagan was such an affable dunce to restrict U.S. businesses from trade with Libya, wasnt he, after those U.S., Dutch and British companies developed Khadafi’s oil fields and he went and nationalized’em, then among other things, blew up Pan Am 103. What’s a little terrorism when it comes to capitalism among oil pals, eh?
You must be awfully proud of having a typefont named after you, Dingbat.
DCSCA (d8da01) — 12/20/2008 @ 1:28 amFormidable vessels of the United States Navy, any one of which could sink the entire naval forces of all but a couple or three other world nations, now patrol such choke points as the Arabian Gulf as I write these words, as they have for many decades.
As a proximate and direct result, we all live today — all of us, of whatever country or ideology — in a world of free trade, where the price of oil is determined by a volatile free market, and the commodity itself (and its distillates) is fungible and readily available in any country which has an ocean port.
The economic part of that was true, too, in 1935. But by December 7, 1941, an aggressive world power-wannabe (and, indeed, current member in good standing of the G8) had decided it was worth picking a fight with the world’s preeminent economic power precisely because its access to oil was being strangled by foreigners, chief among them that preeminent economic power. Through a lucky and by no-means-inevitable series of events, a junior officer commissioned into the U.S.N. in January 1944 survived the resulting war to return to Texas and spawn offspring that eventually included me.
We still live in a world in which a madman dictator who was sincerely believed to aspire (and in the past had indisputably aspired) to the possession of weapons of mass destruction — and was also thought capable of achieving that aspiration precisely because his land was situated atop a significant fraction of the world’s oil reserves — could bestir, albeit only briefly, the world’s only remaining superpower (and, more reluctantly, its best remaining allies) into making war to depose him, and then to pursue a frustrating but ultimately successful occupation to ensure that he’d be followed by a regime at least somewhat less dangerous.
The election of Barack Obama has not yet changed a single one of these historical or present facts. The reincorporation of oil companies, or oil service companies, to jurisdictions outside the United States will not either.
Beldar (294770) — 12/20/2008 @ 2:28 amRelocating to Switzerland for tax purposes – something a LOT of people, not just oil and other companies, would and should do if we could. However, just to get out of Nostrilitis Waxman’s reach is a good enough reason for oil companies to go. They can’t tax and prosecute you if you aren’t within their grasp.
Peg C. (48175e) — 12/20/2008 @ 3:57 am“Dont cross swords on this topic.”
DCSCA – Scary! But one has to figure out which topic you mean first. With your comments it’s never certain.
Why don’t you lay out the imagined Republican talking points for everyone and save people the work? ‘Tis the Season.
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 12/20/2008 @ 8:12 amDont cross swords on this topic.
You can just hear the tiny fists banging on the keyboards, with much venting of spleen and snot directed at the monitor.
Dmac (e30284) — 12/20/2008 @ 8:56 am“You should encourage them to hire a private army as well.”
Well, after the State Dept. gets through thoroughly screwing them, I suppose Blackwater Int’l will be looking for some new gigs?
Another Drew (4dc1ef) — 12/20/2008 @ 9:13 amThey would certainly be more capable than most of the forces in NATO given the proper level of equipment and logistics.
Forget political parties, you can thank our byzantine tax code, promulgated over years by bastards from both sides, for distorting corporate behavior and creating these issues. Sadly for Dems, the tax code appears to be so confusing that the chairman of the Ways and Means committee ( i.e. the people who actually write the tax code) Charlie Rangel claims he didn’t understand he was breaking the law on numerous occasions over the last 10 years on his own tax returns, mistakes which (SHOCKINGLY) saved him tons of money. In another shocker, turns out he took cash contributions from Nabors Drilling, mentioned in the article, in exchange for supporting the very loophole some lefty netroot is blaming the repubs for. Just one example of public “servants” lining their pockets while handing out my tax dollars. Repeat after me, all politicians are lying thieving bastards. Anyone who doesn’t believe that is a fool.
Barbara (5dc67c) — 12/20/2008 @ 11:30 am[…] worsening of the business climate and tax rates in America, oil drilling and related companies are relocating elsewhere. (Via […]
Oil companies relocate to Switzerland « Internet Scofflaw (964f17) — 12/20/2008 @ 11:40 amno less a financial luminary as Jim Rogers, the Alabama born former partner of that great American patriot George Soros, has told all who will listen that basically America is finished and to move East, young man. Meaning Asia. He put his money where his mouth is and sold his NYC digs and now lives in Singapore.
There is no guarantee that this experiment called the USA will grow, thrive or even survive. For the first time in our history it is safe to say we are ruled by people who think that America is a bad country and that individual success, the engine that drove America these 2+ centuries, is wrong and that socialism is the correct path. Their failure to see the results wherever it was tried is mindboggling.
The movement of companies to offshore locations is just a bigger move than a lot of northern state Americans moving to southern states for tax purposes. Perhaps when it is time for my retirement I will look into Belize, let them chase me for my hard earned money.
swift boater (cb2f96) — 12/20/2008 @ 11:45 amIf the U.S. tax code makes it tougher for these companies to compete in the global economy and screws over their shareholders what are they supposed to do, redomesticate to a country with a more favorable tax climate for business? Hell no, according to Democrats, because that’s not patriotic! They need to suck it up, stay in the U.S. and lose business and market share to foreign competitors because that’s the American way.
That’s why penalizing U.S. companies for outsourcing jobs to more efficient and lower cost locations overseas is also the right thing to do in the long run according to Democrats. Screw competitiveness, market share and profitability, especially if you’ve got a union workforce!
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 12/20/2008 @ 11:53 amI’m with Justin on this one. We need to prevent these greedy corporations from escaping their fair tax burden. We need to create some kind of “iron curtain” so that people can’t seek economic opportunity elsewhere on the planet.
John (d30dbe) — 12/20/2008 @ 11:59 amJohn – Agreed. Commiefornia must also erect its own “iron curtain” to prevent greedy corporations from leaving so that it can continue to bleed them dry with fees, assessments, fines, taxes, etc. to pay for the entitlements its citizens so richly deserve.
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 12/20/2008 @ 12:04 pmRepeat after me, all politicians are lying thieving bastards.
But they’re far more embraced, if not encouraged, by the party, politics and people associated with urban-core America — ie, the land of Rod Blagojevich, Al Sharpton, Bernard Madoff, government-employee-union bosses, etc — Bill “meaning-of-is-is” Clinton, his wife, “sniper-fire” Hillary, Joe “plagerist” Biden, and the huge assortment of ambulance-chasing trial lawyers interspersed among that crowd.
Mark (411533) — 12/20/2008 @ 12:08 pmMark – The Democrats obviously have only isolated bad apples some of whom you mentioned, Blagojevich, Rangel, Spitzer, Jefferson, Mollohan, Mahoney, Dodd and Conrad, Holder, and Reid just off the top of my head. Whereas the Republican, that’s clearly a culture, a culture of corruption.
Heh.
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 12/20/2008 @ 12:27 pmMark,
Barbara (5dc67c) — 12/20/2008 @ 12:34 pmThe libertarian in me is just too jaded, I think. I will allow that the sense of entitlement among democrats is truly spectacular, and that’s what leads to the abhorant behavior of the folks you highlighted. But I can’t give the repubs a pass here, they’ve got their share of slime-balls and folks who have wholly abandoned the party’s vision as defenders of smaller government in the interest of getting their fair share of the graft. Since George Washington declined to be crowned king, when has a politician ever voted himself LESS power?
I just want to know why the Governor of Alaska’s daughter’s baby-daddy’s mom taking percocet without a prescription is front page news but Joe Biden’s son lobbying for Citigroup when the senator himself was sponsoring bankrupcy legislation favorable to (wait for it) credit card companies somehow can’t make it into print…. Was his lobbying just too nuanced for me to understand?
It’s an old joke in the oil industry is that the stars stitched in the flags sewn on the shoulders American troops are Texaco Stars.
I really, really, doubt that. It seems more like some professional protester’s idea of a snappy banner.
And did I miss something, or are you suggesting that the oil companies are in danger of being surrounded by hostile foreign troops in Switzerland? Really?
Mars vs Hollywood (788077) — 12/20/2008 @ 1:03 pmAtlas starts to shrug.
At least we know where Galt’s Gulch is going to be now: Between the Alps and Urals there in Switzerland. I’ve spent a bit of time there and liked it, so that isn’t so bad really.
Hucbald (e491c3) — 12/20/2008 @ 1:14 pmI just found this site,and I’m really surprised at some of the comments. I’m a patriotic American who hates paying taxes. But I do. And I, for one, wouldn’t relocate in the Caymans or Switzerland just to avoid paying.
These companies aren’t going broke. They’re paying dividends. And if you look at their annual reports, they are NOT paying exorbitant taxes. Leaving America to make a few more bucks is a kick in the teeth of other companies that think America is more important than a few more bucks in profit. Especially in these hard times.
Henry (659761) — 12/20/2008 @ 1:16 pm“…Between the Alps and Urals there …”
I wouldn’t go that far East – perhaps from the Alps to the Crimean?
Another Drew (4dc1ef) — 12/20/2008 @ 1:17 pmHow about we end the Income Tax on businesses and Individuals, and end the tax on business capitol, and institute a national retail sales tax which would allow, even encourage businesses to return to the United States!
The United States could once again become the financial and industrial leader of the world!!!
http://www.fairtax.org
Mickey (d74c0b) — 12/20/2008 @ 1:23 pmHave to repeal the 16th first, or that boat won’t float.
Another Drew (4dc1ef) — 12/20/2008 @ 1:26 pmI think Justin is completely and totally clueless about business and how damaging this is.
Encouraging them to move overseas, even evil oil companies, is beyond stupid. *snark off*
He has no clue how much money oil and gas puts into the economy in taxes and wages, not to mention the products beyond heating oil and gasoline.
We are the largest and will continue to be one of the largest users of petroleum products for the foreseeable future, next 10-30 years. Even with a highly aggressive approach to development of alternative energy sources. If we don’t have the economy to support the research, the new technologies will not be developed here and the US won’t benefit from their development to the extent that we could.
Healthy oil and gas industry (and coal for that matter) are necessary in the near short term to not only a recovery but ongoing economic health of the US, at least until alternates are found and even then some products will still require petroleum.
Pushing these companies overseas is just dumb. It won’t be only the oil companies either if business taxes go too high.
sookie (8e64fa) — 12/20/2008 @ 1:33 pmI love all these neocommies cheering this and hoping these companies go down in flames. What these little fools do not realize is that their Obamacrats energy plans will make the California blackouts look like a picnic.
They still have not grasped four basic facts of their wind/solar answer to everything.
1. Wind and Solar do not run 24/7 yet miraculously these fools still have electricity 24/7.
2. Look at what happened with Cape Wind to see the future of wind/solar energy-Not In My Back Yard will be the order of the day
3. the existing electric grid can not handle transferring all that wind power.
4. Where are they going to get all those batteries to store their holy wind and solar energy if they actually get their way and how are they going to dispose of them. The environmental impact of disposing of them makes oil and gas exploration look good environmentally.
It will be fun to listen to them howl when they are sitting in the dark with none of their electronic toys to keep them company and no espresso unless they learn to make it the old fashioned way over an open flame. Oh, that is right, we won’t be able to hear them because their cell phones won’t work and they wont have internet access. Maybe they can all write us a letter and send it via the green pony express.
Ennis (ec2b56) — 12/20/2008 @ 1:35 pmDCSCA #9:
I grew up in, have lived and worked in the heart of the oil industry for most of my life which means I have decades of exposure to the oil industry. I’ve never heard anyone in the oilfield say anything like this statement, although a similar slur does appear in this California-based blog. Please provide a credible link to back up your claim.
DRJ (be6fb0) — 12/20/2008 @ 1:59 pm—I just want to know why the Governor of Alaska’s daughter’s baby-daddy’s mom taking percocet without a prescription is front page news but Joe Biden’s son lobbying for Citigroup when the senator himself was sponsoring bankrupcy legislation favorable to (wait for it) credit card companies somehow can’t make it into print…–
Wow…its like you are channeling my thoughts. Jefferson envisioned a free press and recognized that a press could become malicious and untruthful.
red (c80113) — 12/20/2008 @ 2:07 pmDRJ, you know it is: its all about The Narrative.
I would remind you about what the late Paul Tsongas said:
Most folks on the Left buy into this fossilized Marxist nonsense with business as necessarily bad and unions as necessarily good. As usual, the truth is more complex. And I love the conceit that the answer to “reforming” business is more government intrusion (since that has always worked so well).
But think of how stories like the one DCSCA get told over and over again in school, in the MSM, in movies, etc. And a lie repeated enough…becomes…The Truth.
Or so it seems these days. Which is why I call it “The Troof.”
Eric Blair (e906af) — 12/20/2008 @ 2:22 pmOh, and Happpy Holidays, DRJ.
Your commentary is always judicious, considered, and never mean spirited.
Heck, Merry Christmas!
Eric Blair (e906af) — 12/20/2008 @ 2:24 pmThank you, Eric. Merry Christmas to you and your family, too.
DRJ (be6fb0) — 12/20/2008 @ 2:30 pmAnd another Tsongas quote that I recalled:
That echoes Reagan’s famous quip that the most frightening words in the English language are: “I’m from the government, and I am here to help you.“
Eric Blair (e906af) — 12/20/2008 @ 2:31 pmIsn’t it sad that our schools can’t say “Merry Christmas”? We seem to recognize and honor all kinds of other holidays…but it is somehow bad to recognize the Christian holidays?
Oh well.
“Merry Christmas” sounds right as I look out at the snow!
Thank you, DRJ.
Eric Blair (e906af) — 12/20/2008 @ 2:34 pmhttp://www.jerrypournelle.com/mail/2008/Q4/mail549.html (scroll down)
Home invasions of Swiss citizens is zero
Home invasions of people known to be non-Swiss citizens (and hence unlikely to have firearms on the premises) not quite zero.
Having said that I think you have to work at being burgled in Switzerland. You probably need 1) few neighbors 2) signs up saying “We be furriners” 3) lots of easy to carry bling available 4) lots of workmen doing home improvement for you
The contrast is biggest on the Italian border but even crossing over from Germany into Basel the difference is clear. Switzerland just is cleaner and safer.
I can also guarantee there will be no Bombay-style attacks on Swiss trains or other public transport because just about every Swiss train you travel on has a handful of Swiss soldiers traveling somewhere on it and they all travel with their weapons…
Oh and prostitution is legal and it looks like drugs are going to be mostly legal. Great place Switzerland.”
John
And in the home of Calvinism! But an armed society can be a safe society. Depends on the inhabitants… And what they will put up with. The cure for disorderly people is known but usually not applied.
anon (53d899) — 12/20/2008 @ 2:37 pm“…make it the old fashioned way over an open flame…”
Another Drew (4dc1ef) — 12/20/2008 @ 3:01 pmComment by Ennis — 12/20/2008 @ 1:35 pm
Won’t be able to have that,
Air Quality Regulations, you know…
No open flames, no wood fires, etc.
“They shall curse the darkness from their cold, damp caves.”
In the United States, on the other hand, the Swiss banking industry could run into difficulties sooner. For years, the US Senate has been conducting its own detailed inquiries into the issue of tax evasion. Senators have summoned key representatives of the industry, including tax advisors, accountants, lawyers and bankers, to the Capitol in Washington for lengthy hearings.
These hearings have produced reports, some of them hundreds of pages long, on the “tax shelter industry” and “its tools, methods of obfuscation and those pulling the strings.” UBS was mentioned early in the Senate documents as an offender. With relish, the senators cited a letter written by an insider to UBS management. According to the letter, the bank offers “US taxpayers illegal tax evasion models,” part of a system that costs American tax authorities “several hundred million dollars a year.”
Of course, others — the auditors at KPMG — invented the system on which this is based. After admitting to charges of criminal tax fraud conspiracy, they only managed to avoid further criminal prosecution in the United States in 2005 by paying $456 million (€294 million) in fines and penalties.
By this point, the UBS executives should have known that they were likely to face significant problems in the United States. Many of the “tax optimizers” advised by KPMG had maintained accounts with the Swiss bank. The trail had been set. All the American officials had to do was to follow it.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,554284-2,00.html
Jim N (bc18f1) — 12/20/2008 @ 3:21 pmJohn, home invasions are just as unheard of in Japan, and they are an unarmed society. Just saying.
Jim N (bc18f1) — 12/20/2008 @ 3:23 pmIn 1998 we closed up a small business in California – we employed 37 people – and moved half way across country.
Why? because we were sick to death of the political BS,and we were sick of taking all the risks and then barely making ends meet.
We moved a state that didn’t eat us alive with taxes and permit costs and overhead.
We, again, started our business from scratch in our new state.
We don’t make money hand over fist, but when a bill comes in, I can sit down and pay it. when taxes are due, there’s no filing of extensions or praying we have enough decudtions that we don’t bite it.
We employ 43 people who make a good honest living – and now we have a Democrat for a governor AND a Democrat for a president, AND a Democrat controlled congress and senate.
We’ve already discussed plans to cut back.
You want to call us un American and complain about us enjoying all the benefits..blah blah blah? My husband also has 19 years, both active and reserve in the US Army. He has served in both Afghanistan and Iraq. I’ve served as an FRG leader and volunteered hours countless to the families of our battalion. I’ve held the hand of families living my worst nightmare and stood graveside as a friend was laid to rest after being KIA.
We HAVE enjoyed the benefits of living in this country and I can’t imagine living anywhere else, but we’re sick of taking all the risks and having the life sucked out of us just so we can be “Patriotic” and pay more than our fair share of taxes.
Go ahead and complain about these big faceless corporations, but it’s not just the big faceless corporations who take it in the shorts.
Cin (bcfc4a) — 12/20/2008 @ 3:34 pmNot saying you are wrong, Jim N., but this report was as bad as stuff we see here:
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20060508a1.html
Eric Blair (e906af) — 12/20/2008 @ 3:36 pm#43- As have I. More than I care to reveal. But I know of what I speak. It’s an old joke bantered about in the Bechtel’s London offices. Popular with the Brits and a Swiss exec, I might add. Accept it.
Do yourself a favor and dont cross swords on this. I know people who have had Kadaffi show up at their front door and ordered out of the country in 24 hours abandonning everything from clothes to pianos; had a member of my own family ‘escorted’ at gunpoint to a turboprop from a pumping station out of Tripoli. I’m reticent to discuss the corporate meeting to have him liquidated– with CIA support– but it happened and a few are still alive to recount it.
DCSCA (d8da01) — 12/20/2008 @ 6:19 pmHow can we fake some sort of moral outrage over this? We set up a system with which we arbitrarily confiscate a portion of the profits of a corporation, and then we tax the remaining profits again when they’re handed to the corporation’s owners. The system is rule-intensive, and form-intensive, but at its foundation it serves a very shaky piece of principle – that “the gummint” can take this money and hand it out to people with less because the people with less voted that it do so. Now, there’s a moral basis to live by!
In this situation, when a corporation follows the rules, and then chooses to live elsewhere (where the rules are nicer), why is it any of our business? By what moral reasoning do people consider that the corporation has somehow cheated them?
Maybe they should have given a thought to “are we cheating the corporation” back before the corporate decisionmakers decided to move somewhere else?
bobby b (4baf73) — 12/20/2008 @ 6:31 pmSo that’s a “no” on actually giving a proveable link, eh? Gotcha…
This information you have, did it come to you via the readio broadcasts you pick up from your fillings?
Scott Jacobs (90ff96) — 12/20/2008 @ 6:48 pmDCSCA #56:
I think we have different definitions of what constitutes the oil industry. I have no doubt there are Bechtel employees and customers in London who joke about the U.S. military’s ties to Texaco.
DRJ (be6fb0) — 12/20/2008 @ 6:49 pmDCSCA,
I’m not sure where you think we disagree about the risk to oil companies posed by countries that nationalize their interests. It’s an issue I already posted on last February.
DRJ (be6fb0) — 12/20/2008 @ 6:53 pmDRJ – Now you’ve gone and done it. You were warned, but you just had to do it.
DCSCA knows stuff, actually more than he cares to reveal. Accept it.
You do not want to cross swords on this.
Hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!1111!!!eleventy!!!11!!
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 12/20/2008 @ 7:06 pm#58- Lets just say it was bantered in places you’ll never go. How’s that space program coming?
DCSCA (d8da01) — 12/20/2008 @ 7:28 pmWhat?
Dude, are you having a stroke or something? An “episode”?
Dude, seriously, can you stay on topic for five god damn minutes?
Scott Jacobs (90ff96) — 12/20/2008 @ 7:29 pmDRJ- We probably agree fairly closely on this. My knowledge and definitions are from a faily high level, top down, and from exposure to Saudi and Libyan operations. Americans are pretty much ignorant of how the gas gets to their tanks and how much more petroleum products are integrated in other things. The ‘pols’ like it that way and the execs so demonized they wouldnt be believed even when telling the truth.
Oil companies and the subsidaries and servicing arms that operate the fields are pretty much apolitical these days– more so then, say, in the Nixon-to-Reagan era.
The ‘Texaco stars’ joke references the rent-an-army use of U.S. military assets to protect corporate interests over there. The junkie protecting the pusher, as it were.Moving off-shore wont preclude them tapping them if trouble erupts.
Whether the help will come is another matter, especially if you’re HQ’d in Dubai, Bern or Copenghagen and not Houston. We understood the intent of the joke but it does represent a corporate mindset.
DCSCA (d8da01) — 12/20/2008 @ 7:44 pm#65- DRJ- Read your February post. We seem to agree pretty much. Similar to the Libyan situation before it although at that time, much of the best light sweet crude outside the Middle East came from Libyan fields and the U.S. need to keep the tap open for the war at the time.
DCSCA (d8da01) — 12/20/2008 @ 7:51 pmDRJ – Please provide a credible link to back up your claim.
DCSCA – Lets just say it was bantered in places you’ll never go.
DCSCA – My knowledge and definitions are from a faily high level
Condescending Prick!!!!!!
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 12/20/2008 @ 7:59 pmTexaco stars, eh? Well, the US government (and the rest of the world) stood by and did nothing as my old company, Sun, had its assets nationalized not once but three different times in Venezuela. They finally wised up (it seemed at the time), and got out of exploration to specialize in refining and marketing in the US, where that could never happen. Now that it looks like it could indeed, they’re re-evaluating that position too. I think a ‘private army’ could be well-employed in Marcus Hook, Tulsa and Toledo. If I know Bechtel’s roughnecks, they’d stand in line to sign up.
comatus (2e0902) — 12/20/2008 @ 8:28 pm“I would encourage these companies to move if I were a shareholder. There’s no future in the U.S. for the oil and gas industry”
I do not disagree. With the socialists and ecofreaks in Congress restricting activities of the energy companies, prohibiting or slow tracking refinery building or modernization and demagoguing energy company profitability, there is no percentage in keeping significant operations in the U.S. over and above breakeven for what is required to service whar is still a huge part of the global consuming market. Keep the assets and profits offshore where the socialists can’t get them.
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 12/20/2008 @ 10:04 pm[…] I hate it when I’m right. Posted on December 21, 2008 by Mike O None of the predictions made here were made in hope, nor as doom-saying; but it looks like the one about offshoring management is beginning before Obama even takes office. The two largest offshore drilling companies, one of the largest oilfield service companies, and othe…: […]
I hate it when I’m right. « The Political Inquirer (07d52e) — 12/20/2008 @ 10:40 pmNot quite.
It is an old smear used by those who despise American Troops (dictators, warlords, lots of Europeans, some American liberals).
Such creatures presume that American Soldiers only fight for the Dollar (our soldiers are too stupid to know better, the presumption).
To such American creatures, it also provides camouflage as to why the sacrifice made by those who serve, need not be honored.
It is an “old joke” only to those that agree with them.
Pons Asinorum (5fa803) — 12/21/2008 @ 12:58 am#70- “You may very well think that. I could not possibly comment.”– Francis Urquhart [Ian Richardson].
DCSCA (d8da01) — 12/21/2008 @ 4:04 amWhy did the Beatles leave Britain? Why do British Formula 1 drivers live in Monaco?
What is any different about this? Please notice companies moving from high tax states to low tax states within the US all the time.
Let me tell you how it will be,
There’s one for you, nineteen for me,
‘Cos I’m the Taxman,
Yeah, I’m the Taxman.
Should five per cent appear too small,
Be thankful I don’t take it all.
‘Cos I’m the Taxman,
Yeah yeah, I’m the Taxman.
(If you drive a car car), I’ll tax the street,
(If you try to sit sit), I’ll tax your seat,
(If you get too cold cold), I’ll tax the heat,
(If you take a walk walk), I’ll tax your feet.
Taxman.
‘Cos I’m the Taxman,
Yeah, I’m the Taxman.
Don’t ask me what I want it for
(Ah Ah! Mister Wilson!)
If you don’t want to pay some more
(Ah Ah! Mister Heath!),
‘Cos I’m the Taxman,
Yeeeah, I’m the Taxman.
Now my advice for those who die, (Taxman!)
Bill Johnson (27beb4) — 12/21/2008 @ 6:42 amDeclare the pennies on your eyes, (Taxman!)
‘Cos I’m the Taxman,
Yeah, I’m the Taxman.
And you’re working for no-one but me,
(Taxman).
The US has one of the highest corporate tax rates of any industrialized nation and, as a result, these businesses are upholding their fiduciary responcibility to their shareholders and taking their pretax profits with them to lower cost countries.
There are currently over six dozen co-sponsors for a bill that, if passed, could repatriate TRILLIONS of dollars, and hundreds of corporations that are kept off shore so as to avoid paying our draconian corporate taxes.
The bill is HR-25 and its called “The FairTax”, which would abolish ALL taxes on earnings, income cap-gains and wealth creation. Instead it would mandate a tax system based on consumption instead of production, profit and wealth accrual.
Check out this proposal at http://www.fairtax.org
Adakin Valorem (9cadc9) — 12/22/2008 @ 1:29 pmNow if we can just get the offshore entities to give the IRS the finger and not issue 1099s to Americans we’ll really be rocking!
Then the feds can’t say “well we’ll just tax the earnings paid to Americans”.
Uh no you dont.
Smitty (826aa0) — 12/22/2008 @ 6:03 pm