Patterico's Pontifications

10/29/2007

Firearms Disappearing from Airport Luggage

Filed under: Government,Terrorism — DRJ @ 10:40 am

[Guest post by DRJ]

Distressing news from Seattle:

“Handguns, stored in luggage, have been disappearing from some major airports, including here at Sea-Tac. That means, firearms, and at times, ammunition are loose in secure areas with direct access to passenger jets.

If you want to take your .357 Magnum revolver from Seattle on vacation with you (to say) Los Angeles, airlines allow it, but it has to go into the belly of the jet along with your luggage. However, KIRO Team 7 Investigators discover that criminals on the tarmac just might nab it before it arrives at its destination.

It’s fair to say Ben Peterson is comfortable around guns. He grew up hunting and recently spent a tour in Iraq as a medic for the 7th Marines. The last time he flew from Seattle home to Omaha, all his luggage arrived just fine, but there was an empty hole in one of his cases. Peterson told Investigative Reporter Chris Halsne, “The pistol was just flat out gone!”

Police reports show Peterson was missing a compact 9 millimeter Taurus and 15 round clip, which disappeared after Peterson handed the locked weapon to TSA employees for a special luggage inspection. He lost a lot of sleep worrying about who stole it and what it would be used for. Then a call came from a King County detective. “It surprised me. I was extremely shocked. The idea that it had gone to being taken at an airport to used in a gang shooting in a period of four months or so,” said Peterson.”

Peterson’s stolen gun wasn’t an isolated case at Sea-Tac:

We found five weapons reported taken from luggage at Sea-Tac in three years. Police records show that (now -fired) Alaska Airlines baggage handler Vincent Hereld Young stole some Beretta pistols. During an unrelated police matter, he got caught with them weeks later, confessing he just “covered the (gun) case with his coat — placed it inside his personal tote bag — and after work walked across the street.”

Port of Seattle Police Captain Ken Irwin admits he is concerned about disappearing weapons. “Yes. We do have issues or times where weapons that have been declared have ended up missing when the bag gets to its destination,” said Irwin.

The problem isn’t just in Seattle:

“Finding out exactly how many handguns are missing from luggage after they were checked into secure areas of airports nationwide has been a challenge. So far, KIRO Team 7 Investigators tracked at least 34 handguns presumed stolen, including 10 guns missing from LAX in Los Angeles, three in Portland, three in Tampa, and two each in San Antonio and Chicago O’Hare. Oakland, Fort Lauderdale, Miami, and Washington D.C. Dulles and Ronald Reagan airports reported thieves stealing handguns in secure areas of the airport as well.

The Department of Homeland Security has a database of all gun theft reports for all airports, but so far has refused to provide us with it. Justice Department sources tell us it contains more than 100 reports filed since 9/11.

Experts are concerned:

“National security experts Robert Ramsey and Mark Solomon are alarmed by our findings, agreeing “there’s obviously a problem.” They say terrorists are patient. It means nothing for them to work a job inside an airport for years, or to pay a criminal with access lots of money to stash a weapon inside secure areas.

Ramsey was candid about the potential national security threat. “If I was going to mount an operation against an aircraft — that’s where I’d be looking.”

Theft victim Ben Peterson wonders when airport security will wake up to that potential threat. “Given the level of security exercises at airports, I expected, between that conveyer belt and loading it into the aircraft, there would be better measures in place,” said Peterson.

Federal rules indicate gun owners should lock their weapon cases before they go on a passenger jet. However, we found in dozens of reports that TSA employees asked gun owners to leave one side of their case unlocked, so they could slide some paperwork inside.”

I know airlines have problems with missing luggage but this is a security issue that should be resolved. Wake up, TSA and Homeland Security.

— DRJ

61 Responses to “Firearms Disappearing from Airport Luggage”

  1. You COULD just…. nah, that’s crazy.

    Well… nah, nah.

    What the hell: You COULD simply ban guns from from all manner of luggage.

    It’s crazy, I know… but it just might work.

    Leviticus (3c2c59)

  2. DHS has documented some 100 guns stolen from secure luggage in the last five years? Egads. “Wake up TSA and Homeland Security” indeed! Each pales in the incompetence greatness of the other!

    One of these days, I guess I’ll find (and warmly welcome) armed military guards and attack dogs manning the gates at DFW and especially its underbelly…just like the ones I met on my first trip to Frankfurt nearly 20 years ago.

    Unchanged since 911 are two questions always in the forefront of my mind: Is it safe to fly? And can flying in an ever-escalating terrorist-threatened world ever be made safe without turning air travel into such a debilitating ordeal that it’s simply no longer worth the hassle? This post underscores my unchanged answers: No and No.

    EHeavenlyGads (5ac5e3)

  3. What the hell: You COULD simply ban guns from from all manner of luggage.

    Ah yes, ban guns from luggage because baggage handlers might steal them. Let’s also ban prescription drugs, jewelry, and anything else that baggage handlers might steal.

    But let’s not inspect the baggage handlers, that would be wrong.

    Steverino (990606)

  4. And so giving a gun to a representative of the government is a good idea?

    Also, um, who are the people that know guns are in the luggage? Why TSA! Guess who’s stealing them???

    The Ace (12e3ad)

  5. “Ah yes, ban guns from luggage because baggage handlers might steal them.”

    -Steverino

    Was that honestly the impression you got from this post? That people’s property is at stake? C’mon, Steve-0. You know as well as I do that this post is about TERRORISM!

    Robot Chicken On TerrorismPowered by: Really Funny Clips

    “Let’s also ban prescription drugs, jewelry, and anything else that baggage handlers might steal.”

    -Steverino

    Strawman. Unless the Terrorists are going to hijack a plane with a pair of earrings and a bottle of Xanax they bought from sticky-fingered TSA personnel, you’re barking up the wrong tree.

    Leviticus (3c2c59)

  6. Strawman. Unless the Terrorists are going to hijack a plane with a pair of earrings and a bottle of Xanax they bought from sticky-fingered TSA personnel, you’re barking up the wrong tree.

    Nice try, but weak. Stealing prescription drugs has as much to do with drug trafficking as stealing guns has to do with terrorism.

    Banning guns from checked baggage won’t stop terrorism. But you knew that already, right?

    Steverino (990606)

  7. Steverino – You really missed Levi’s point. He was likely heading towards just banning all handguns, period. To hell with the 2nd Amendment, and all that.

    JD (49efd3)

  8. That’s right, JD. Because I supplied DRJ with an obvious solution to the problem posed, I want to ban red-blooded Americans from killing deer with their handguns.

    What I would like is a Constitutional Amendment banning baseless quasi-original conjecture on the part of commenters named JD.

    Leviticus (3c2c59)

  9. Banning guns from luggage, so people traveling to hunt would just have to use Amtrak? Certainly no one would be able to travel outside of the country on safari unless they took the QE II to cross the Atlantic. And of course people who have firearms for protection would have to just travel the nation by car.

    Brilliant Leviticus.

    SPQR (6c18fd)

  10. Levi – I was just trying to point out the absurdity of your position with absurdity. Sorry if it hit too close to home for you.

    Why ban the object of the theft? Should we ban Honda Accords and Ford Taurus’ because they were routinely the most commonly stolen cars?

    Your simplistic thinking leaves much to be desired.

    JD (49efd3)

  11. Yeah, Leviticus. They shouldn’t have been wearing that dress, and if they hadn’t they wouldn’t have been raped. So, let’s ban dressing like that.

    Pablo (99243e)

  12. I’m currently fighting with the TSA, related contractors and insurance over ~2K of camera equipment that was “lost” on a flight. (strange how a camera body and a lens went missing, but the bag and everything else in it showed up.)

    The lesson I learned is that I don’t fly with anything expensive checked. Silly security theater is apparently much more important than not hiring crooks.

    In general, I don’t fly when I can avoid it – the TSA is just absurd and worse than useless. Renting a car costs more, but is much more pleasant when I have the time.

    fishbane (1f2790)

  13. The Ace,

    Also, um, who are the people that know guns are in the luggage? Why TSA! Guess who’s stealing them???

    Not necessarily, and in fact, probably not.

    First, you’ll be declaring your guns to the airline, when you check your bag. TSA may then screen it, or it may be a contractor. After that, from the CTX machine to the plane, it’s in a contractor’s hands.

    There’s plenty of people who could do it.

    Pablo (99243e)

  14. “Banning guns from luggage, so people traveling to hunt would just have to use Amtrak?”

    -SPQR

    Yes, SPQR. People that want to go to Chicago and hunt deer with their Beretta will have to use the Amtrak… and pay a $10,000 dollar Stupid Tax while their at it.

    Tee Hee. Leviticus is Karnak at 12:46.

    “So, let’s ban dressing like that.”

    -Pablo

    You don’t work for Southwest Airlines, by any chance?

    Leviticus (3c2c59)

  15. … While they’re at it.

    Leviticus (3c2c59)

  16. During an unrelated police matter, he got caught with them weeks later, confessing he just “covered the (gun) case with his coat — placed it inside his personal tote bag — and after work walked across the street.”

    So this character helps himself to multiple weapons from checked bags and the airport security can’t correlate his work schedule with the thefts?
    Airport security has a zero tolerance for banned items in secure areas, so how about increasing the penalties for “inside jobs” like this. At least if they can’t investigate mysterious disappearing firearms, they can increase the penalty when they stumble onto the stolen guns.

    capitano (03e5ec)

  17. The whole point, Leviticus, is that TSA, it’s contractors, or anyone else in the “secure area” of an airport should not be digging through luggage looking for things to steal – weapons or otherwise.

    Just because you don’t see the point in a handgun doesn’t mean there isn’t one.

    Lysander (b9a564)

  18. Leviticus, lots of people hunt big game with handguns. It is legal in most states that I’m aware of. And I myself have taken deer with a .41 magnum revolver. Just because you are ignorant of it does not mean it does not exist. Secondly, your proposal is to ban guns, not just handguns, long guns get stolen by baggage handlers too.

    SPQR (6c18fd)

  19. “And I myself have taken deer with a .41 magnum revolver.”

    -SPQR

    What did the airline people say when you tried to get it home stuffed in a duffle bag?

    Leviticus (3c2c59)

  20. Leviticus, they asked me if it was unloaded and gave me a declared firearms tag for the luggage, of course.

    SPQR (6c18fd)

  21. I’m talking about the deer.

    Leviticus (3c2c59)

  22. First, you’ll be declaring your guns to the airline, when you check your bag.

    Pablo, note this part:
    which disappeared after Peterson handed the locked weapon to TSA employees for a special luggage inspection

    Though it certainly is possible (likely?) those handling the luggage are doing this.

    The Ace (d0eb72)

  23. This is just another thing that shows even though we’ve had an aparently successful post 911 airports preventing similar attacks condition, there are glaring holes that are still unadressed.
    I am so disgusted by the granny and baby searches and idiotic reactionary kneee jerks from TSA and the powers that be when it comes to nail clippers and then toothpaste and liquids, that I had better keep it short.
    We have the left with their one size fits all PC anti-racist cabal in total control IMO, and the result is everyone is suspect, and the “totalitarian state” of idiocy is in full bloom. “Equality” has turned into utter stupidity, and no doubt it is reaching far beyond airports, and I’m sure many enforcements jobs wind up with decent people and jerks in a position they perhaps do not dislike much, where “Sorry, that’s the law, I don’t want to do this, but I have to, now keep your hands visible, don’t move, spread ’em, and bite the pavement! ” is the general misused rule of thumb.
    I knew it when Bush coming off “helicopter one” quipped (paraphrased)” If anyone has discriminated against my SS agent, I’m going to be very angry..”
    Yes, he was only a beedy eyed muzzie looking bulker in a trenchcoat with a gun and an Islamic war book and mismatched paperwork….
    If Ron Paul looks nutty at times, I’ll be glad to say he isn’t the only one.
    That Bush incident above is one where I lost respect for the President. It cut deep, and I knew we were in PC trouble far larger than I had ever been aware of.

    SiliconDoc (da9276)

  24. I flew from Boston Logan Airport to LAX. I declared my unloaded Glock 30 in my luggage. The guy at the ticket counter asked if I had a permit to have the gun. I showed him my police ID. He again requested my gun permit. I informed him that under HR218 my police ID was my “Gun permit” & authorized me to carry in all 50 states. He dropped that line of questioning.

    The ticket counter guy told me he would have the TSA guy inspect my gun. He carried my bag over to the TSA guy. He was eating lunch & waved the agent off. The agent then said he would take my bag down stairs to have it inspected by TSA. My bag was unzipped about 18″. I asked the agent to ensure my bag was locked after it was inspected (I had TSA locks.)

    When I picked up my bag in LAX, it was still unlocked & unzipped 18″. It had never been inspected by the TSA as evidenced by the lack of TSA inspection sticker.

    I emailed TSA to inform them of this breach in security. I emailed several times in fact via my official police department email never receiving anything other than an automated response.

    I then contacted my congressman about this. His office responded immediately. About 2 months later I get a letter from TSA telling me they didn’t do anything wrong & it was the ticket agent that screwed up & they were closing the investigation as they did nothing wrong.

    Retired cop (7cfd24)

  25. I’ll add that I am a blond haired surfer looking white guy. I always travel with my family, usually fly first class on a round trip ticket. I ALWAYS get singled out for a secondary search. I guess I help balance their stats or whatever.

    Retired cop (7cfd24)

  26. TSA: Another Federal solution to an almost non-existant problem that the private market could have solved without the creation of a huge, un-responsive bureaucracy (thankfully, not unionized – yet).
    AMTRAK is looking better and better.
    Train to San Diego…
    Trolley to Border…
    Taxi to TJ Int’l…
    anywhere in the world and no TSA!

    Another Drew (8018ee)

  27. Retired cop,

    I’m glad you posted but now I feel even worse. I wish they would just let you carry on the plane. It would be safer.

    DRJ (5c60fb)

  28. Every military member I know who does not show and declare their orders at check-in gets chosen for a random inspection– I even got chosen for a random inspection after doing so, and had to inform the lady that there was a law against that.

    I was polite, and it was resolved, but that’s just stupid.

    Foxfier (97deae)

  29. #24&25 , what is that but utter disregard and contempt for their “jobs”. They must be more4 than vaguely aware of what stupid rules they operate under, yet it seems to me it’s always “passenger beware”.
    A friend of mine moved states away, and later took a bus to his parents new home in another state. He told the bus person that he had another bag, but was ignored as they slammed the underneath bag carrier door in his face. Then, they were stopped for their swerving bus driver who almost killed them on the highway, a passenger made a cellphone call. It was either booze, drugs, or lack of sleep.
    He gets back, and it costs him 70 bucks and several phonecalls for another trip to go get his then weeks later found luggage at some other city bus depo.
    Here’s how bad it is: ” We can’t keep track of people’s luggage”.
    Not like this is something new. In my youth I won a trip to Disney’s in Florida for newpaper subscription sales. I recall one of the two adult employees on the trip had his luggage lost. He had diabetes, so then had a crisis, since his insulin was in his luggage.
    I suppose they left your bag open and uninspected because they hate cops, because the agent had no idea after years of this crap that a police ID was a valid carry permit, and probably someone missed stealing the weapon because someone else was too close or looking in the direction at the desired theft moment.
    Whatever. It makes me wonder how we’re the greatest in the world.

    SiliconDoc (da9276)

  30. DRJ,

    I agree. If I was a fed, I could carry on the plane. I have just as much training & experience if not more than most of the fed cops I know.

    In the incident I described above, several TSA people should have been disciplined. TSA swept the entire incident under the rug & placed blame on the ticket agent. I continue to be astounded by the incompetence of those in the federal government entrusted with our safety.

    Retred Cop (7cfd24)

  31. Silicon Doc,

    Shocking indeed in light of the fact one of the hijackings on 9-11 was from Boston Logan where the incident I described took place. You would think they would be more vigilant & TSA management would be outraged. In fact, just the opposite was true.

    Retred Cop (7cfd24)

  32. Look at the way the feds at FEMA tried to pull off the bogus press conference the other day. Where do they get these people & how do they continue to move up through the government??

    Retired Cop (7cfd24)

  33. Retired Cop, how funny and disgraceful is it that Philbin was going to land as director of public relations at the Director of National Intelligence? They saw someone wiling to put on a phoney press conference and wanted him very badly, or worse yet, it was a “test” for him to “make the grade” and “certify” his “bona fide capabilities”. lol
    Can you imagine the view from Intelligence quarters if he had pulled it off without getting caught?
    ” Wow. He snowballed the entire angry left wing press and put them in their place. We’re really going to get somewhere now. ”
    The whole deal is just so Orwellian. I wonder if the press learned anything about asking the correct kind of “approved” questions. I have to add, after the way the entire press reported outright insanities during Katrina as fact, it is no wonder FEMA doesn’t trust them or want them in between the information stream and the public.
    The press spent some time publicly whipping themselves over their naivete’ and ignorant lies they presented as facts concerning Katrina, but their MO is so entrenched that even as they did that, hundreds of other lies spewed from their orifices simultaneously.
    Years ago the bigshot anchors got together and I caught it on C-Span, they chided themselves for their biased reporting on Iraq, said they needed to do a better job and be fair, but were under pressure to improve the bottom line, couldn’t help themselves, etc. I guess lying improves the bottom line. That’s the common line we hear today, over and over again.
    We’ve got to lie to survive and thrive. Just like the TSA throw off of responsibility. Easy to ignore, lie, and continue all screwed up. Story of the public school system isn’t it, except they continue to implement new disasters. lol
    Thanks for the heads up on the FEMA fake press conference, I had missed that one.

    SiliconDoc (da9276)

  34. SiliconDoc #32,

    There’s no suggestion that FEMA and the Bush Administration encouraged Philbin to fake a news conference, and they certainly haven’t condoned or tried to cover it up.

    DRJ (5c60fb)

  35. No one is suggesting Bush had anything to do with the press conference. However, the bogus press conference is certainly symptomatic of the problems within FEMA. The point I was making is that in the federal work force, a lot of incompetent people seem to be rising to high positions. Does this quote ring a bell? “You’re doing a heck of a job, Brownie.”

    Retired cop (7cfd24)

  36. THe answer…as it usually is with theft…is to run a sting and catch the miscreant.

    TCO (79dafb)

  37. Oh…and I hate the idea of the TSA. Just more federal beuaorocrats. And they are starting to turn into idiots like the screeners we used to have before. Chewing gum, talking on cell phones, goofing off.

    TCO (79dafb)

  38. Makes one wonder if anyone outside maybe the FBI takes domestic terrorism very seriously. Corruption and complacency always seep in.
    If gangs can get their guys in then other groups can too. Forget bad guys somehow sneaking down into the luggage bay to get the gun smuggled on board. If guns can come out of luggage then other things can be put into luggage huh?

    EdWood (a81fe8)

  39. EdWood, the discussion is about guns being stolen from luggage in the secure baggage handling section, not aboard aircraft.

    SPQR (6c18fd)

  40. Leviticus,

    You don’t work for Southwest Airlines, by any chance?

    No, I don’t. I also generally don’t blame the victim or suggest restricting his rights as the answer to a criminal problem. How about you?

    Pablo (99243e)

  41. The Ace,

    Pablo, note this part:
    which disappeared after Peterson handed the locked weapon to TSA employees for a special luggage inspection

    Though it certainly is possible (likely?) those handling the luggage are doing this.

    Yes, the TSA will be doing the screening. But they’ll be doing it in plain view, often with the bag owner present. And when they’re done, odds are they’ll be passing the bag off to a contractor who will guide it through the bowels of the airport and on to the plane. And if I’m reading right, the TSA will tag the bag as having declared firearms, making it a target for thieves.

    How about we screen the airport employees on their way out?

    Pablo (99243e)

  42. #34 DRJ, I certainly nve mentioned the Bush Administration. I’m not sure how anyone consider’s so many of these “administration” issues a sign of what Bush has wrought.
    I certainly believe the overwhelming, indisputalbe, vast majority of personnel were there before the all feared and belittled Bush came on the scene, and will most certainly be there long after he is gone from the waning BDS symptoms exhibited by the press and their ignorant public lapdogs.
    Powell as sent to “change the bureaucracy” of the State Department, and failed. Gates was supposed to gut and whip into order the CIA, and at least half failed. Bolton was going to hammer the UN into shape –
    I watched none other than “The Wall” lady, Gorelick, on an archived youtube Charlie Rose, and she flat out stated they couldn’t even implement the Clinton Administration wishes.
    It is my solid belief that “the bureacracy” is ruled by democrats of every postmodern liberal flavor, and this is just another example of it.
    If a director of anything came up with this idea and there were solid conservative people under him, more than a few would speak up against it. Instead the place is swarming with the do-goody two shoes – all too willing to make sure the idea got quickly implemented, after one of them likely suggested it as a fix.
    That’s what I believe happens, as a rough outline.
    If someone like Bolton is appointed, we see the never ending shrieks of terror and endless attacks, dredging up years ago mostly fabricated incident(s) filled with embellished lies by tree hugging crybabies all in an effort to stop what might be an actual dam-able hammer that redirects the sway of the massive undercurrent of the entrenched bureacracy.
    We at least quite agree on what you said.

    SiliconDoc (da9276)

  43. re#39….Um, I was following a terrorism angle from the comments above. I was just saying that if its so easy to get guns out of the luggage and luggage handling area then maybe its easy to get things in. Its disturbing enough that people can steal guns that get sold to gangs but that would imply that it is possible to bring things in as well… not that a their would blow up a plane, but a company that hired theives as baggage handlers could also mistakenly hire a terrorist as well. Do they screen workers on their way in?

    EdWood (a81fe8)

  44. I’m trying to figure out what the panic is about. Guns have been in checked-through luggage for, well, decades, and stuff in luggage is all too often stolen or lost. Airport and airline employees — particular including those involved in “security” — are often allowed to get around inspections, both going in and going out.

    These aren’t good things, of course, but they’re hardly new things.

    Joel Rosenberg (677e59)

  45. “I also generally don’t blame the victim or suggest restricting his rights as the answer to a criminal problem”

    -Pablo

    Pablo,

    If the last paragraph is any indicator, this post is about TERRORISM – specifically, Terrorists (they’re patient) getting their hands on handguns stolen by TSA personnel/whoever else rummages through our luggage, then using them to commit more Heinous Acts.

    If this is indeed a Terrorist Problem (not a “criminal” one, as you say)… well, then, that’s just hilarious. What with illegal wiretaps, illegal search and seizure, and the suspension of habeas corpus, it seems that the suggested restriction of rights as a solution to a Terrorist Problem is what people on your side of the aisle (though not necessarily you) do best.

    The rest of the Constitution has made sacrifices in the War on Terror; the 2nd Amendment can do its part.

    Leviticus (b987b0)

  46. That last comment was kinda moony (moonier than most of my comments, anyway), but I stand by it, for the most part…

    …Except to say that I know that you don’t necessarily advocate any Unconstitutional/illegal behavior on the part of the government in any circumstance, Pablo: even circumstances of TERRORISM. I tried to make that clear in the post with my little disclaimer, but I’m just reinforcing the admission.

    Leviticus (b987b0)

  47. The fact that the supposed other unconstitutional acts by our government you cite are gross exaggerations does not seem to bother you.

    SPQR (6c18fd)

  48. Like I said, it was a moony post (and it did bother me a little, or I wouldn’t have explained myself three minutes later).

    Be that as it may, the fact that you use the word “exaggerations” rather than “fabrications” seems to indicate at least the remote possibility that you’d admit to government miscreance.

    Let’s compromise: you can pick two-thirds of the Unconstitutional Acts I cited and decry them as utter fabrication. The one remaining Unconstitutional Act on the part of the government still sets precedent for a suspension of 2nd Amendment in US airspace.

    Compromise: everybody wins*… but mostly, I win.

    Booyah!

    *except handgun-toting, commercial airline-traveling deer-hunters

    Leviticus (b987b0)

  49. Who said that making the baggage handlers unionized federal employees would cure both security and crime problems at the airports? OH YES! It was Congressional Democrats.

    Anyone check how much the Democrats get from the TSA unions?

    PCD (b47ba5)

  50. I don’t like to unnecessarily disassemble guns but for some it would be useful to take out the slide or the bolt and put it in a different piece of luggage. The thief winds up with a nice paperweight or wall decoration. (Don’t try taking apart a modern revolver, though.)

    Not Rick Ellensburg (7aed24)

  51. Darn these cookies. Comment #50 was by me.

    nk (7aed24)

  52. #41, By policy, there are no external markings on a bag indicating a firearm is enclosed. That does not rule out a criminal conspiracy between a TSA employee & baggage handler to discreetly make bags contain guns.

    #50, The gun has to be in a locked hard sided case. You would have to open 2 bags & cases at check in for inspection.

    What I don’t recall is the article stating if the bags were locked or not. I always lock my bags using TSA locks, for what little good they do. I’m traveling to NYC in a few weeks. We will see what happens.

    Retired Cop (7cfd24)

  53. RC #52,

    BATFE defines firearms as the frame (and autosear for NFA weapons) AFAIK. The airline or TSA might have different rules for other parts but it never hurts to ask.

    nk (7aed24)

  54. NK, yes the TSA/airline policies include all parts and ammunition.

    SPQR (6c18fd)

  55. nk: you can do that with your guns right now, if you’d like. Just means that you have to have two gun cases.

    Me, since I’m sure that a thief is going to be able to get a gun if he tries medium hard, I’m going to halve my chances of effectively losing my gun (half a gun isn’t half as good as a gun) and keep the egg in a single basket.

    Leviticus: if we’re going to hack off pieces of fundamental individual rights over the War on Terrorism, eagerness is, at best, unseemly and foolish. What benefit that’s more than a sound bite do you expect to gain by forbidding airline transportation of firearms?

    Joel Rosenberg (677e59)

  56. Thanks, SPQR.

    There’s a story on the internets about a guy who tied a shoelace to his semi-auto’s bolt and then to the trigger and adjusted the length so that the gun would fire just as the bolt went into battery making it full auto. BATF allowed him to register the shoelace as an autosear. Hope we won’t have to be shipping our shoelaces in a gun case any time soon. 😉

    nk (7aed24)

  57. If the last paragraph is any indicator, this post is about TERRORISM – specifically, Terrorists (they’re patient) getting their hands on handguns stolen by TSA personnel/whoever else rummages through our luggage, then using them to commit more Heinous Acts.

    Leviticus, this may come as a surprise to you, but legislation is generally not based on the last paragraph of a post at Patterico’s Pontifications.

    If this is indeed a Terrorist Problem (not a “criminal” one, as you say)… well, then, that’s just hilarious.

    Yeah, I’m busting a gut over here. Look out Dane Cook, we’ve got people stealing guns out of luggage!

    What with illegal wiretaps, illegal search and seizure, and the suspension of habeas corpus, it seems that the suggested restriction of rights as a solution to a Terrorist Problem is what people on your side of the aisle (though not necessarily you) do best.

    Are you seeking treatment for your BDS?

    Pablo (99243e)

  58. The one remaining Unconstitutional Act on the part of the government still sets precedent for a suspension of 2nd Amendment in US airspace.

    That’s already been done, Leviticus, in case you had not noticed. And it isn’t unconstitutional, because you’re not forced to fly.

    Pablo (99243e)

  59. SiliconDoc #42,

    I’m sorry I misunderstood your comment. I thought you were saying the Administration encouraged Philbin to conduct a fake news conference as a test, to see if he would willingly participate in misleading the media and the public. I’m glad I was way off base.

    DRJ (5c60fb)

  60. Pablo #57:

    Leviticus, this may come as a surprise to you, but legislation is generally not based on the last paragraph of a post at Patterico’s Pontifications.

    It may not be a surprise but it’s a disappointment, at least to me.

    DRJ (5c60fb)

  61. Yet, DRJ. Yet.

    Pablo (99243e)


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