Patterico's Pontifications

2/23/2005

L.A. Times on Social Security

Filed under: Dog Trainer,General — Patterico @ 6:40 pm



Kevin Murphy takes the L.A. Times to task for a misleading story on Social Security.

By the way, I’m an L.A. County employee, and I don’t pay into Social Security.

30 Responses to “L.A. Times on Social Security”

  1. Bush’s faux ownership Society.

    If you rent a car. You have the right to move that car around. If you stay within the limits of the Rental company.

    Ownership is more than the right to temporarily Affect the future of a asset.

    It is the ability to sell, it is the ability to immediately place a value on a object and use that object as collateral.. Neither of which are available in Bush’s forced savings plan..

    Ownership infers a positive value.. Which also suggests that there is a value that can be used for collateral..

    No Bank will offer you consideration in exchange for your forced savings plan. Indeed consideration of this fund by lending institutions.

    WOULD BE ILLEGAL..

    Bush’s Forced savings plan.

    CAN RESULT IN A 100% loss…. That is the only guaranty..

    To accept Bush’s forced savings plan as a spoke in the wheel of a ownership society.

    Would first require a redefining of the word OWNERSHIP….

    Gary Kozy (892264)

  2. Rep Bill Thomas stop Humiliating America’s retired..

    Receiving Social Security and Medicare is not relying on the Government.

    They are not welfare.

    It is a fund consisting of individual accounts, formed by the hard work and contributions of individuals..

    SSI comes from the general tax fund. It is a form of welfare..

    Social Security is FICA. Social Security is a Annuity. In every sense of the word. It has nothing to do with the general tax fund. Other than to give the likes of you a cheap place to borrow money for your pork barrel projects…

    You liberal spending Republicans are going to be the damnation of America..

    I think I understand now.

    Why you have no Public e-mail address…

    Gary Kozy (892264)

  3. ALL CONGRESSMEN WILL RECEIVE SS upon retirement or disability..

    Their pension plan is a supplemental plan.. The same as ALL union workers have a pension plan.

    DO NOT ALLOW ARTICLES OR POLITICIANS. TO MAKE STATEMENTS THAT MAKE IT APPEAR THAT THE CONGRESS TRADED SS FOR THEIR PENSION PLAN..

    There is nothing wrong with SS.. That a rate adjustment will not fix.

    The same adjustment is performed buy private annuities.

    And The forced savings plan being proposed

    WILL REQUIRE THE PURCHASE OF AN ANNUITY.

    THE BEST FORCED SAVINGS PLANS IN THE WORLD HAVE ADMIN FEES BETWEEN 13 AND 20 PERCENT.

    In the first years of the forced savings plan. A minimum wage worker. Whose Forced savings plan fund charged a $50/year admin fee. Plus a trans action fee. ( 1% CONTRIBUTION = 108 DOLLARS)

    WILL PAY A MINIMUM OF 50% IN ADMIN FEE..

    The American public is being force fed propaganda.

    Due in part because the questions are being asked by reporters who do not even know the difference between SSA and SSI..

    Gary Kozy (892264)

  4. Are the SS Fed bonds Marketable?

    Read the transcripts from Greenspans testimony last week..

    He was grilled in depth on this issue.

    They are marketable. The day social security funds coming in. Are less than funds going out.

    Let’s take your suggestion and carry it through.

    Does the Fed have the money to redeem those bonds. Bonds that are backed by the full faith and credit of the USA?

    If not. How will they pay the cost.

    They will have to privately market bonds…

    You can twist words any which way you wish.. But a huge debt will be transferred from the Feds to the private market..

    This is going to drive interest sky High..

    I don’t want to hear this junk about trusting the government

    We have members of this board.

    Who will place faith in our leaders to send our troops to die in nations half way around the world..

    But these same members.. Will not trust our leaders, AND THE FULL FAITH AND CREDIT OF THE USA, to make a payment on SS retirement insurance..

    SS is a annuity in every sense of the word..

    I don’t make up definitions..

    an·nu·i·ty
    n. pl. an·nu·i·ties
    The annual payment of an allowance or income.
    The right to receive this payment or the obligation to make this payment.
    A contract or agreement by which one receives fixed payments on an investment for a lifetime or for a specified number of years.

    annuity
    A stream of equal payments to an individual, such as to a retiree, that occur at predetermined intervals (that is, monthly or annually). The payments may continue for a fixed period or for a contingent period, such as for the recipient’s lifetime. Although annuities are most often associated with insurance companies and retirement programs, the payment of interest to a bondholder is also an example of an annuity

    What guarantee Does a PRIVATE ANNUITY PROVIDE.. ABSOLUTELY NONE And private annuities are REQUIRED under the Bush, ’Forced Savings Plan‘…

    Private Annuities are rife with fraud and corruption.. YOU CAN NOT SUE A BANKRUPT CORRUPT CORPORATION. THAT PACKED UP IT’S BAGS AND MOVED TO A TAX SHELTERED ISLAND IN THE PACIFIC..

    SS is funded through 2053…

    And is backed by the full faith and credit of the USA..

    There is NO SS IOU‘s. There are bonds that become marketable the day SS funds coming in. Are below those going out..

    EVEN IF NOTHING IS DONE TO SS..

    IT WILL NOT HAVE TO REDUCE BENEFITS UNTIL 2053. I WILL BE 104 YEARS OLD.

    THE BABY BOOMERS WILL ALL BE DEAD. AND THE POPULATION CRISES WILL BE OVER….

    Bush’s Forced Savings plan,

    IS THE SAME GOVERNMENT COLLECTING MONEY. THAT MANY CLAIM IS COLLECTING SS…

    Under Bush’s Forced savings plan.. You will be FORCED TO PURCHASE your annuity from regulated and approved Funds. It will have to meet specific standards.

    AND YOU WILL HAVE TO PAY THE GOING RATE.

    AND THERE IS NO WAY TO DETERMINE WHAT THE GOING RATE WILL BE..

    This Forced Saving plan Annuity.. Is a CAPTIVE MARKET.. The rate will be the highest funds can get away with.. These funds are not in the business of cutting breaks.. THEY ARE IN THE BUSINESS OF MAKING MONEY.. AS MUCH MONEY AS THEY CAN..

    I am not saying that is bad. It is just a fact of the Capitalist market…

    A minimum wage income.. Something most Americans enjoy for at least a portion of their youth. Would have a total Annual income of 10,800/year..

    In the first year that will amount to a contribution of 108 dollars/year into his Forced Savings account. Later a maximum of 432 dollars/year will be possible under the plan being put forth today..

    FORGET TRANSACTION FEES..

    An Administration fee of $50/year. Would be a 50% administration fee for this individual..

    AND THERE WILL BE TRANSACTION FEES.

    AND YOU CAN NOT MAKE MONEY IN THE MARKET WITHOUT MAKING TRANSACTIONS..

    The biggest problem SS has.

    Is the poor Bush economy.

    From:

    [URL=www.taipeitimes.com/News/edit/archives/2005/02/19/2003223704]www.taipeitimes.com/News/edit/archi…2/19/2003223704[/URL]

    Bush says that reform is urgently needed, because the system will be insolvent in about a quarter-century. But the problem depends on the US growth rate: if the growth rates of the late 1990s return, there is no problem.

    Gary Kozy (892264)

  5. Yep, 2/23/05 — full moon.

    How can I tell?

    steve miller (fca749)

  6. The ss trust fund holds nothing but worthless i.o.u.’s, pure and simple. However, one wonderful solution to the gov’t’s insatiable need for money to spend on its own behalf, is to make all those not paying into ss now, start paying. Why anyone should escape his/her obligation to this nation and its safety net can only be explained by greed.

    J. Peden (ffccb8)

  7. J. Peden

    SS buys Bonds from the Fed.. The bonds are redeemable on demand. And are backed by the full faith and Credit of the USA.

    If necessary the Feds must market bonds to redeem those SS bonds.

    Or in effect, The USA is bankrupt.

    If something is not done.

    It is the Equity market that will be in crises..

    When the Fed Markets the bonds..

    Gary Kozy (892264)

  8. Gary, I don’t argue with imbeciles.

    J. Peden (ffccb8)

  9. “The ss trust fund holds nothing but worthless i.o.u.’s, pure and simple”

    But ronnie reagan made the trust fund. Was he lying to me?

    actus (e8ffe9)

  10. Greenspan in his testimony this week. Said that the Bonds are marketable. Don’t argue with me..

    Read the transcripts.
    He Was Ronnie’s partner.. He should know..

    Gary Kozy (892264)

  11. Gary Kozy – Thanks for your well-reasoned, rational, well prepared remarks. It is messages like that which clue people in to what the Democrats are all about, and will makes things better. Keep up the good work.

    Ladainian (91b3b2)

  12. Bush’s Pyramid Schemes

    Increasing your ante on a equity. Because you know tomorrow, someone will reach the age where they

    MUST ENTER.

    Bush’s ‘Forced saving plan’.

    AND BY DEFAULT.. They must increase the ante for the faux value already applied to the equity..

    Is sitting on the couch investing in a pyramid scheme..

    ALL PYRAMID SCHEME ARE DOOMED TO FAILURE.

    It is irresponsible for societies Governor. To legitimize Pyramid Schemes.

    From a Bully Pulpit..

    Gary Kozy (892264)

  13. What has to be remembered. Is that SS was indeed in a crises in 1983. And it was fixed through rate adjustments, through 2053. And if the economy would take a upturn and perform in the manner it did in the late 90’s. SS would be solvent much further into the future..

    There really isn’t anything wrong with the system of SS. It is the inability of lawmakers to take responsibility and make adjustments to keep it solvent.

    PERIODIC ADJUSTMENT TO RATES. BOTH UP AND DOWN. IF NOT ACCOMPANIED BY THE POLITICAL MANEUVERING, WOULD PUT CONFIDENCE BACK INTO THE SS SYSTEM..

    It is that political bickering that causes the unrest..

    We have to stop allowing the word crises to be thrown around.

    IT’S JUST NOT THE TRUTH..

    We need to get the economy on track by reducing the deficit. That helps keep SS rates down.

    We need to give tax breaks. Only when the revenue is not needed.

    We have to insist our lawmakers stick to Paygo.

    When the government needs money.. There is only one way to get it. That’s to increase taxes or cut spending. Americans know that. Why don’t our politicians.

    All the mess that Bush’s tax cuts have got us into. The huge deficits and all. What has it resulted in..

    It appears it will result in a huge tax increase. That is what is proposed anyway. With the elimination of the FICA cap..

    And it doesn’t appear that will be enough. More will probably come.

    EVERY TAX CUT IN MODERN HISTORY HAS RESULTED IN TAX INCREASES. WHY CAN’T POLITICIAN LEARN THAT..

    All this crying about SS. While hundreds of thousands of Americans Health Care is being provided through the bankruptcy courts. Makes no sense to me.. These people are people who actually have health plans. But the coverage is so poor. A few months off work and they are bankrupt..

    Many people who can not work because they are uninsurable.

    The cost of medical care for the middle and lower class is going to kill the economy..

    Fix the medical care system and SS will fix itself..

    Deficit/ Medical care… Deficit/ Medical care… Deficit/ Medical care… Deficit/ Medical care… Deficit/ Medical care…

    I can’t say it enough.

    Those are the problems.

    And if nothing is done about them. The stock market will be in crises well before the SS system will be.

    When the SS fund stops drawing in more money than it pays out. The feds have to redeem the SS bonds. They are redeemable on demand..

    The Fed has no money to pay the bonds. So they will have to increase taxes or market bonds..

    If the feds wait until the last minute. The increase in tax necessary would be devastating and most likely unpractical. If they market bonds. The interest rates will soar and destroy the stock market..

    Cutting spending today. Will not be enough to allow us to prepare for the future and bring the debt down.

    AMERICA HAS NO CHOICE. Taxes must also be increased this year..

    One thing you can tell your children to reassure them. The SS is funded until 2053 if nothing is done. I am a Baby Boomer. I will be 104 then. The Baby Boomers will be dead and the population and financial crises caused by them, will be gone..

    There is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow..

    Gary Kozy (892264)

  14. Here’s a question for imbeciles with whom I will not argue: Why does the payroll [ss] tax collect more than is spent on yearly ss benefits? Why has it collected $75-100 billion per year for about the past 20 years in excess of what is needed for those yearly benefits? Why is this excess, now totalling about $3 trillion, carried as a part of the National Debt? Where did the excess go?

    Why has my private retirement plan never had a deficit or a debt? Why is it worth from between $1 million and $n billion, depending upon what I could possibly sell a certain investment for [which I won’t, because it is literally priceless to me]?

    How did I manage this totally on my own, while making an average of about $75,000/yr. and doing nothing daring with the money invested at all, while raising 4 kids and having 2 divorces, etc.? [My wives made a total of about $12000 over 28 years, being much oppressed by me, I’m sure you will agree.]

    At the same time, why is the Oregon Public Employee Retirement System now $17 billion in debt compared to its estimated benefits? How much in debt are the other State and Local systems, some of which are not covered by ss?

    The schemes you favor are not even as good as pyramid schemes because their peaks are collapsing upon their bases, virtually imploding as we speak. Will future tax revenues bail them out, given the competition generated by the Government programs created with the excess ss trillions already spent in creating them? Who will you blame, excluding yourselves from any of it, as is natural for imbeciles?

    J. Peden (ffccb8)

  15. In Bush’s Faux Ownership Land

    Just like the shot heard around the world

    The accidental utterance, of a single tragic word..

    And your entire future could be destroyed..

    As Greenspan said this week. If we do this thing wrong. If we have got every wrong. Unimaginable problems would be the result.

    In the world that Greenspan lives. Unimaginable problems. Are not the bakery closing on the corner..

    Evil Kanevil takes unimaginable risks.

    Not Governors, charged with the welfare of his people..

    Gary Kozy (892264)

  16. SS is not depending on the government.

    IT IS PRIVATE FUNDS INVESTED IN A GOVERNMENT GUARANTEED ANNUITY..

    There is nothing wrong about investing in a fund backed by the full faith and credit of the USA..

    You would chose Enron.

    And warn me to stay away from Google.

    I have to protect you from yourself..

    Gary Kozy (892264)

  17. SS is a constant source of currency, even in the worst of times.. It helps smooth over the bumps. So yes. SS is partially responsible for the lack of deep depression since it’s inception..

    SS is NATIONAL savings. Ask Greenspan.

    It is savings that prevents depressions.

    Not the stock market..

    Not corporations or business.

    As long as mom and pop have money for a burger at the burger shop.. And a few presents for the grand kids..

    The economy does fine..

    When the grand kids have to spend money to take care of and mom and pops.

    Everybody goes hungry And the economy tanks….

    Gary Kozy (892264)

  18. Greenspan opposed Clintons idea of investing a portion of the SS trust fund into the stock market..

    Most of the firms do not want public/government ownership of their corporation..

    It would be a very easy move for a fund as large as the SS fund. To gain control of any Corporation in the world..

    This may even happen with specialized investment funds. That could be thrown together after privatization is accomplished..

    The back door Bush/liberal, Republican method of the introduction of Socialism into America..

    Gary Kozy (892264)

  19. Gary, you surely wouldn’t google one of your old highschool sweethearts, would you?

    J. Peden (ffccb8)

  20. Thank God moonbats can’t follow links.

    Kevin Murphy (6a7945)

  21. As with steve miller, I feel a strange compulsion to break forth with my own rendition of “There’s a Moon Out Tonight”, which Gary might find I wrote for the Capris in 1962 in honor of him, though he was barely even born at that time.

    J. Peden (ffccb8)

  22. This has been a fun discussion.
    Thanks for your participation

    Have a good Day

    Gary..

    🙂

    Gary Kozy (892264)

  23. “It is savings that prevents depressions.

    As long as mom and pop have money for a burger at the burger shop.. And a few presents for the grand kids..

    The economy does fine..”

    You might want to tell that to the Japanese. They have an extremely high savings rate and an economy going on a decade of stagnation now. On a side note, Gary gets the award for most annoying commenter of the day. Here’s a hint: you don’t have to put a space in between each sentence and you don’t have to repeat yourself over and over again.

    Tom (499e8e)

  24. Savings my be accompanied by a stagnant period..

    But that is considerably different, (and better), than a full fledged Depression..

    There has been no depression.

    Since the inception of the SS system in America.

    There is another topic concerning Blogging and style.

    Writing skills come from the mind.

    Not a spellchecker.

    Gary Kozy (MDPA) (892264)

  25. Ladainian

    I am a Centrist. Who is strongly religious. And has found that in most cases. Have sided with the Democratic view in the recent past..

    But I strongly disagree with some of the views voiced by the DEM’s.

    On the issue of Illegal immigration.

    I also disagree with:

    The Bakersfield Californian.. (a extremely conservative newspaper)

    Bush/Rove.. ( Cheney has been relegated to the role of spokes model.)

    And those who think that the hiring of Illegals, is consistent with the law of supply and demand. And Capitalism..

    Many prominent DEM’s

    Gary Kozy (MDPA) (892264)

  26. Gary, your messages might be easier to read if they were written in English.

    Ladainian (91b3b2)

  27. Thanks Ladainian

    Stop and think.

    Whenever you see a period… 🙂

    🙂

    Have sided with the Democratic. Should have read:

    Have sided with the Democrat.

    DEM’s = Democrats.

    Have a Good Day

    Gary..

    Gary Kozy (MDPA) (892264)

  28. As I said in this blog 2 months ago LAT was (has been and continues to) running a series of “news” articles to scare the public away form W’s updating of SS. It was not apparent to most at the time; but as a 50 year reader it was obvious to me what they were doing. The LAT was not bigoted 50 year ago, that change took place 45 years ago.

    Rod Stanton (8d1477)

  29. Although I could not agree with. I could honor a opinion that rebuked both Bush’s, ’Forced Savings Plan’, and Social Security.

    But to honor the, ‘Forced Savings Plan‘. And not recognize the good that has coming from the Social Security program..

    To honor the Forced Savings Plan above Social Security.

    Is hypocritical..

    Both offer a sense of ownership.
    Neither provides true ownership..

    Gary Kozy (MDPA) (892264)

  30. Ellie…

    I just wanted to write to say that you have a great site and a wonderful resource for all to share….

    Ellie (c4fc20)


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