Trump Promised Not to Criticize Xi Over a Hong Kong Crackdown
The news is old, actually, but takes on fresh significance today. Financial Times, July 9:
Donald Trump told Chinese president Xi Jinping last month that the US would tone down criticism of Beijing’s approach to Hong Kong following massive protests in the territory in order to revive trade talks with China.
The US president made the commitment when the two leaders met at the G20 summit in Osaka, according to several people familiar with the meeting. One person said Mr Trump made a similar pledge in a phone call with Mr Xi ahead of the G20 summit.
Politico now reports on the reaction within the administration (Hot Air link):
The president surprised his aides when he told Xi that he would not condemn the Chinese government over a crackdown in Hong Kong. He understood it was an internal issue in which the U.S. would not interfere, he said.
The president’s off-the-cuff commitment caused confusion within the administration. For one, aides were uncertain whether there was a time horizon on the president’s vow of silence, particularly when he went on to make a statement at least mildly supportive of the protesters.
Nothing is as reassuring as Trump speaking off the cuff!
As the Chinese military conducts exercises near the border, we are reminded that Trump’s words have consequences. While he can’t stop a violent crackdown if the Chinese government is hell bent on having one, he can make one more likely by shrugging his shoulders. Which we all knew he would, because we all remember that he praised the Chinese for massacring protesters in 1989. In case you forgot, here’s his praise for that massacre:
When the students poured into Tiananmen Square, the Chinese government almost blew it. Then they were vicious, they were horrible, but they put it down with strength. That shows you the power of strength. Our country is right now perceived as weak.
We know how he feels about violent crackdowns. They’re powerful and strong. Why would he feel differently now?
[Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.]
OMG, we need to SAY SOMETHING! Of course, we can’t force China to do anything. Walk loudly and carry a small stick. The new Liberal Establishment foreign policy.
rcocean (1a839e) — 8/15/2019 @ 8:15 amLast time i looked Hong Kong is part of china. That part of China was taken by force by the British and the Brits were given a long lease (99 Years?) – once it was up, HK reverted back to Chinese control. This an internal Chinese affair, and they aren’t going to do ANYTHING because we wag our finger and write them strong notes.
But of course, it will make us feel good. And isn’t that all that matters?
rcocean (1a839e) — 8/15/2019 @ 8:18 amWalk loudly and carry a small stick.
That’s Trump, all right, but is “stick” a euphemism?
nk (dbc370) — 8/15/2019 @ 8:21 amWhereas the new
Dave (1bb933) — 8/15/2019 @ 8:24 amConservativeNationalist Establishment one seems to be: “Insult our friends and fellate our enemies.”Foreign policy is almost entirely in the hands of the President, whoever he may be. The President, whoever he may be, is the foreign policy Establishment. If America is being sold out overseas, it’s the orange who’s doing it.
nk (dbc370) — 8/15/2019 @ 8:25 amIf I weren’t 99.99999% certain that the escalation of the so-called Hong Kong protests has been manufactured by Beijing agents provocateurs to give Beijing the excuse to step in and completely take over, I could understand the need for the imposition of some law and order. What if it was Occupy in New York?
nk (dbc370) — 8/15/2019 @ 8:53 amTrump doesn’t have the stones to criticize Xi about Hong Kong, but his NSA does:
Since Trump won’t do it, perhaps Bolton could also call out Xi on the information war he’s now conducting. The way it’s going, the Chicoms are going to crack some skulls.
Paul Montagu (a2342d) — 8/15/2019 @ 8:56 amSaw this a while back and wondered how it would be handled by the msm and others.
All sorts of dynamics here, including protestors singing our national anthem and waving American flags.
We could sure use a Reagan (or a Cruz) right now, but all we have is a Trump. Hopefully his minders get through his thick skull that this is not just two CEOs with one declining to speak on the others’ union troubles.
harkin (58d012) — 8/15/2019 @ 8:57 amIt does seem like he thinks they are two CEOs, harkin. Trump doesn’t seem to grasp there should be a difference between Western leaders and communist dictators, just as there is a difference between Western democracies and communist countries.
DRJ (15874d) — 8/15/2019 @ 9:06 amBut it is easier to go with what he knows.
DRJ (15874d) — 8/15/2019 @ 9:07 amThe trouble with our
Dave (1bb933) — 8/15/2019 @ 9:10 amLiberalOrange friends is not that they’re ignorant; it’s just that they know so much that isn’t so.– Ronald Reagan
Confucius say our Hong Kong like your Vegas; what happens there stays there.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 8/15/2019 @ 9:17 amSend in the English Navy…
mg (8cbc69) — 8/15/2019 @ 9:31 amBlimey, mg, that’s not cricket!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/15/2019 @ 9:37 amMemo to Walrus Gumbo: ah-choo. Americans remember the Hong Kong flu, not Tiananmen Square. The world of Suzie Wong was created by the British tenants and the lease was up; leave the protesting to them, ol’bean.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 8/15/2019 @ 9:38 amThe same people favoring useless gestures of faux solidarity with HK, to “be tough” on China, were horrified when Trump demanded that NATO members actually pay their 2%.
Who is the tough one? Who are the faux tough ones?
Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e) — 8/15/2019 @ 9:42 amBecause we should treat our democratic allies in NATO the same way we treat the communist kleptocrats and murderers in Beijing, Moscow and Pyongyang…
That you believe the two situations are even remotely analogous is a remarkable confession of cluelessness.
Dave (1bb933) — 8/15/2019 @ 9:47 amThe nitwit Left and NeverTrump are nearly always on the same page.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/15/2019 @ 9:57 amRun, Ted, run.
Kevin M (21ca15) — 8/15/2019 @ 9:58 amNow Trump is following the rest of his administration, and everybody else. He now says that if Hing King is not handled right, that could be the end of the trade talks.
Sammy Finkelman (ce0839) — 8/15/2019 @ 10:02 amBig Tech… Enemy of the American people:
Google refuses to cooperate with the DoD in using its technology for national security. A case can be made for that, I guess. However, Google is openly and enthusiastically acting as a contractor for the PRC to develop technology that actively subverts dissent and can be used to crush anyone who dares object to the regime.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/15/2019 @ 10:04 amSomewhere are Fox News, peole are chortling.
Hannity: “Can you believe what we got Trump to do this time!?!”
Kevin M (21ca15) — 8/15/2019 @ 10:05 amWallace: “Let’s suggest the exact opposite tomorrow and see what he does.”
Smith: “I still say we should suggest he do a press conference in a dress.”
Hume: “Wait until the election”
Trump and Congress need to get serious, come together and act in America’s best long-term interests not only in dealing with China, BUT IN ALL THEIR DEALINGS.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/15/2019 @ 10:08 amAnd now this:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1162002141172633600
This was linked to an earlier tweet, which he retweeted: :
He thinks the U.S. has so much economic power, he can turn Xi into alittle bit of a puppet (not get rid of the Communist regime altogether, but tell him what to do about Hong Kong – within limits, of course,)
This is especially a possibility when the Chinese governmen is itself in a quandary, totally unsure what to do.
It doesn’t know what to do because Zhou Enlai is no longer alive. And everybody knows it (that the people who invented the system are dead.)
In such a case, says Donald J. Trump, he, Donald Trump will solve the problem for them in a way that makes everybody happy. Xi Jinping just has to talk to him, and he, Donald Trump, will show him the way out.
That’s what he’s saying. That’s what he’s saying.
Sammy Finkelman (ce0839) — 8/15/2019 @ 10:11 am24. That’s what he’s saying
That could sound very arrogant, that he will be able to tell Xi Jinping what to do and end the crisis in Hong Kong in a way that is both humane and that he can live with.
But Donald J. Trump also once thought he could be elected president of the United States. so who knows?
Sammy Finkelman (ce0839) — 8/15/2019 @ 10:17 amDave:
Demanding that our Euro “allies” meet their 2% to resist Putin is being tough on Putin. Criticizing that demand as “impolite,” etc., is a fixation on manners over substance.
Equating useless and misleading gestures to a lost people as toughness, is grandstanding. “I stand up for Hong Kong!” does not “stand up” for anything.
The “tough gesture” crowd is like the UN after a big disaster. Words and speeches. Or Canada criticizing Trump on immigration and making a grand gesture “Canada welcomes you!” –till immigrants swarmed its border, forcing Trudeau to quietly and urgently tell everyone he didn’t mean it.
Its easy to be a fantasist. Harder to see reality.
Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e) — 8/15/2019 @ 10:27 amEquating useless and misleading gestures to a lost people as toughness, is grandstanding. “I stand up for Hong Kong!” does not “stand up” for anything.
Yeah, all that blather from Reagan in support of the Poles, the Czechs, the East Germans, etc, over the years was just grandstanding. The fall of the USSR was just coincidence.
Kevin M (21ca15) — 8/15/2019 @ 10:48 amThe Chinese Communist Party will fall within the next decade. Watch.
Kevin M (21ca15) — 8/15/2019 @ 10:50 amEnlighten us as to what exactly we know that isn’t so. My guess is there would be a laundry list about other people that cannot be proved conclusively because we really don’t know the complete truth. There will be some stumbling into things that are true about a persons misconceptions, but primarily it will be an exercise illustrating the message of getting the log out of our own eye before complaining about the speck in the other.
A good example would be the question of whether or not Trump and by extension, all of his supporters, are racist. True or not true?
A friend of mine wrote a book about 220 things in the bible that believers commonly misinterpret. Reading that book was eye opening in the sense that it reminded me how all humans misinterpret stories and then arrive at beliefs in “truths” that are actually in contradiction to the complete context.
To sum it up, we all do it. Even when it comes to the word of God that we swear to tell the truth on.
steveg (354706) — 8/15/2019 @ 10:51 amI’ll continue to work on me, thanks for the reminder.
Time was, rcocean, that Republicans and Conservatives believed in standing up to Communist dictators when those dictators oppressed their people. Y’all weren’t so good at standing up to non-Communist dictators, but at least you’d stand up to Communist dictators.
With Trump, those days are gone.
aphrael (3f0569) — 8/15/2019 @ 11:00 am“Mr. Gorbachev, that’s a big beautiful wall” – Ronald Reagan
Davethulhu (94520c) — 8/15/2019 @ 11:08 amA bold prediction.
While it would be wonderful to see China transformed into a free society like Japan, it’s hard for me to see how that could happen any time soon. While they have complex economic problems, they are not the post-Brezhnev Soviet Union, teetering on the brink of collapse.
I just don’t see the social forces ready to displace the heavily entrenched establishment.
Dave (1bb933) — 8/15/2019 @ 11:13 amMuch noise and complaining here today. What would you have the U.S. do w/r/t Hong Kong? Emulate the Pres. Obama tactic of sending a “strongly worded letter”? Play loud music? Draw a red line where there is no intention of consequence for defiance? “Send in the Marines”?
ColoComment (89c82f) — 8/15/2019 @ 11:18 amIt’s a matter between Hong Kong and China. The U.S. is not a party. Other than express sympathy and emotional support for the protesters (which he has done), what precisely would you have Trump do? Is there an intervention that would likely have good results? for anyone?
@33. Bingo.
Besides, the lead nation to voice concern should be Britain, not the U.S.
“Send in the Royal Marines.” 😉
DCSCA (797bc0) — 8/15/2019 @ 11:25 amNot when Trump is criticizing NATO for being “obsolete” and not saying one critical word towards Putin, and then being a big suck-up toward Putin in Helsinki.
Paul Montagu (a2342d) — 8/15/2019 @ 11:28 amThe 2% number is what NATO members are aspiring to spend as a percent of GDP for their own national defense, and they already pledged to increase their spending when Obama was president. The US only funds 22% of the NATO budget.
27:
But I assume we can agree that RR was far from being only “Mr. Gesture.” He went on the offensive: built up the military; used Star Wars to pressure the USSR (against the advice of all the adult “professionals”), messed with their gas pipeline, asked the Saudis to lower oil prices to cripple soviet revenue. And he had a reasonably useful ally in Germany and Britain. His word carried weight because it was more than words.
Trump’s tariffs on China is the first move in 25 years to check them. The “professionals didn’t do that before; they didn’t do anything as China cyber-attacked our computers etc. Only Trump did something. Our “allies” now, however, tumble over each other to do deals with China.
The “adults” who sat by doing nothing-and even facilitated China’s rise-now have the temerity to question the shrewdness of the one man who started to push back.
Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e) — 8/15/2019 @ 11:29 am26… excellent, tempered response to the rude and condescending comment posted in #17…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/15/2019 @ 11:32 amComing from you, that’s a real compliment!
Dave (1bb933) — 8/15/2019 @ 11:38 amKnock ’em dead, Sparky! Just don’t put ’em to sleep.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/15/2019 @ 11:42 am35: I’m not sure relying on a fast visit to a “fact check” site that regularly derides Trump is the right way to get facts.
Germany has non-operable fighters, subs and tanks, the French have endless staff officers, cooks, and MP’s, and anyone counting on those budget entries to defend Europe is equating a fat man with a fit and armed man. I mean, do you see German B52’s in Europe? German subs?
Here is Reuters on Germany, the most “combat ready” NATO country (the “fact check” people seem to have missed all this).
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-military/german-military-requires-urgent-action-parliamentary-report-idUSKCN1PN28I
Relying on contributions to NATO’s light bills, laundry and food services, etc., is not the same as a defense capacity.
Europe has 500 million people. We have 330m. Why are we paying 22% of their budget at all?
Trump is 100% right is telling those freeloaders to get with the program and honor their commitments for their own defense.
THAT is how one is tough with Putin, not making gratuitous insults at some meeting.
Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e) — 8/15/2019 @ 11:44 amI do apologize for being rude to HFM, though.
I think his comment was silly, but it was civil and mine was not.
Dave (1bb933) — 8/15/2019 @ 11:44 am37: Thank you Colonel!
33: excellent point–the red line.
Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e) — 8/15/2019 @ 11:46 am41: no offense taken at all.
Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e) — 8/15/2019 @ 11:46 am33… do NOT derail the Magical Thinking™…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/15/2019 @ 11:50 am28. Kevin M (21ca15) — 8/15/2019 @ 10:50 am
I was figuring the 2030’s but Xi Jinping may accelerate it. Nobody in Hong Kong realizes this.
It’s already absolutely doomed because Xi abolished term limits, creating a situtation where he has succcessor who would want to contine the regime. Xi himself is a “prince.”
Sammy Finkelman (102c75) — 8/15/2019 @ 11:52 amThe reality is that both Trump and Putin agree: NATO has lived past its usefulness, so much so that Trump is willing make s**t up to make his case, not to mention making brainless comments that inviting Montenegro to the NATO fold could start WWIII. It’s unclear to me why Trump would agree with a hostile foreign power on such an important a subject as the common defense of the European continent against an aggressive dictatorship.
Paul Montagu (a2342d) — 8/15/2019 @ 11:57 amOh, and “gratuitous insults” is a red herring. A president can criticize a hostile foreign power without being insulting or gratuitous, but Trump won’t do that when it comes to Putin.
32. Dave (1bb933) — 8/15/2019 @ 11:13 am
There is no establoshment.
There’s just Xi JinPing. He’s purging some people, and assuming more control.
I he starts wrecking thigs, there may be more established people ready to get rid of him.
Remember, the Fascists deposed Mussolini. (Later on, after arranging his escape from prison, Hitler restored him in the part of Italy Germany controlled.)
Sammy Finkelman (102c75) — 8/15/2019 @ 11:58 amMaybe Trump could get this proposal hammered out.
Paul Montagu (a2342d) — 8/15/2019 @ 12:01 pmAnd then also the Politburo deposed Khrushchev in October, 1964 because he was endangering the careers of the children of many on the leadership, by threatening the USSR Academy of Sciences. (I need to look this up some more – but thar was what got Kosygin to join in the coup)
Many of their children had careers as scientists because heir parents thought that was aafe niche.
Sammy Finkelman (102c75) — 8/15/2019 @ 12:03 pmThe agreement made in 2015 was that everyone would aim to meet the 2% target by 2024. It is not binding on anyone, or a condition of membership in the alliance.
The 2 percent metric is analogous to equating education or welfare spending with outcomes. “It measures input instead of output.”
This long article (written in September 2015, so it is not a reaction to Trump) explains why it’s a poor benchmark for improving NATO’s readiness.
The issues involved are important should be seriously discussed. Having a lunatic pounding the table and calling people names over an artificial (but simple to understand!) number is not the way to make progress, and not the way allies should deal with each other.
Dave (1bb933) — 8/15/2019 @ 12:05 pmThat is quite a remarkable view of the situation in China.
Dave (1bb933) — 8/15/2019 @ 12:08 pm50: fair point. But all the pre-Trump niceness, urging, etc., did not work. Our “allies” ignored Obama when he complained, and they continue to act not like allies, but entitled, spoiled children:
“German Defense Spending Is Falling Even Shorter. The US Isn’t Happy.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/19/…/germany-nato-spending-target.html
Mar 19, 2019 – Germany had already pulled back from its NATO spending target. …
Trump’s declaration that NATO is “obsolete” only recognized what NATO itself had done.
Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e) — 8/15/2019 @ 12:15 pmNow we discover that hillarys emails were backed up to a corporate server, shandong carter industries
Narciso (50a424) — 8/15/2019 @ 1:12 pmBlackmail potential much:
https://mobile.twitter.com/IvanPentchoukov/status/1161936214557102080
Narciso (50a424) — 8/15/2019 @ 1:17 pm“WhataboutReagan” isn’t much of an argument. We were in a Cold war with AN evil empire. And all the Liberal Establishment HATED Reagan calling the USSR that. In fact, Reagan’s own state department flunkies tried to get him to delete the “Mr. G tear down this wall”. They also tried to get him to not go to Bitburg. LIke Trump it was Reagan against the Liberal Establishment.
Now the spineless Establishment wants to Yell at the Chicoms about HK, while caving to them on Trade. What a laugh!
rcocean (1a839e) — 8/15/2019 @ 1:22 pmBTW, there’s some character called “Tom Nichols” who’s come out for ANY Democrat to win in 2020 – cause Orange man bad. Evidently, he’s some VERY IMPORTANT person. Who i’ve never heard of. Does anyone know who he is? And why should anyone care?
rcocean (1a839e) — 8/15/2019 @ 1:24 pmYes he still teaches at the war college, like his colleague john schindler used to, before his weiner moment.
Narciso (50a424) — 8/15/2019 @ 1:50 pm51. I mean there isn’t an establishment running things. You said:
Dave: I just don’t see the social forces ready to displace the heavily entrenched establishment
It is not entrenched any more. One person, Xi Jinping is entrenched, maybe.
Sammy Finkelman (ce0839) — 8/15/2019 @ 2:01 pmHe was questioning ona practices likr hiring halper:
Narciso (50a424) — 8/15/2019 @ 2:07 pmhttps://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/aug/14/investigation-clears-analyst-accused-of-leaking-da/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork&fbclid=IwAR0yCXK2yoxn3NLrN0GxLlxx3mhZoBnE-AuUbSss-uOQ8ceYhcNwqjeRmAA
“It is not entrenched any more.“
They may well be “entrenched”, as in dead and buried in a large trench.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/15/2019 @ 6:05 pmThese may be the Chinese paramilitary forces available if Beijing wants to end the protests.
DRJ (15874d) — 8/16/2019 @ 9:16 pmIf you mean Xi has centralized control, that may be.
But Xi doesn’t stay in power because he’s loved. There is a massive apparatus dedicated to keeping him in power.
In China, political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. And Xi has all the guns.
It’s always a danger in totalitarian systems when power passes from one leader to the next. That hasn’t been a problem in China for a long time. It wasn’t really a problem in the Soviet Union, after 1925. But a destabilizing power struggle can never be ruled out, I guess.
Dave (1bb933) — 8/16/2019 @ 9:37 pm