Patterico's Pontifications

7/25/2018

CNN Obtains Tape of Trump Talking to Cohen

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:55 am



It’s outrageous that Mueller would leak this!!!!1! Except 1) Mueller isn’t running this investigation and 2) CNN explicitly says it got the tape from Lanny Davis, Cohen’s lawyer.

Donald Trump complains on Twitter that the tape ends abruptly, which is typically dishonest of him as the sudden end is almost certainly for his protection (my educated guess is that attorney-client privileged materials immediately follow).

It’s not 100% clear what the tapes reveal. They seem to be discussing reimbursing “our friend David” (presumably David Pecker, the head of the National Enquirer), for his “catch and kill” hush money payment to Karen McDougal. The Big Dispute between Lanny Davis and Rudy Giuliani appears to be who was proposing that the sleazy payment be made in cash, with Davis saying Trump proposed that and Giuliani saying Cohen did. I can’t tell — and I can’t figure out why I am supposed to care. Here’s the audio so you can reach your own conclusions:

UPDATE: Interesting question raised by bobble in the comments: perhaps “our friend David” refers to David Dennison (an alias Trump used in these payoffs) rather than David Pecker.

Not impossible at all.

UPDATE x2: On second thought, the “maybe he gets hit by a truck” line seems more consistent with it being Pecker.

[Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.]

255 Responses to “CNN Obtains Tape of Trump Talking to Cohen”

  1. Ding.

    Patterico (cff84e)

  2. Wasn’t this baked into the Trump candidacy? Its not that there is nothing to see here, its that we’ve seen this how many times now? Trump’s a terrible husband, but that’s like a 40 year old story.

    Colonel Klink (f9132f)

  3. That hissing sound you hear is the deflating hopes of Republicans who hoped that Cohen wouldn’t sing. I’ll be the Trumpets will really be mooning people and shouting the “n” word now!

    This seems to fit the moment.

    Tillman (d34303)

  4. I find lanny’s connection to firtash, as well as Michael Chertoff’s more dispositive, the latter wants to vanquish all Russians except those who pay him in coin,

    narciso (d1f714)

  5. Every report I have read of the Cohen court case, Trump side didn’t claim any attorney-client privileged on the 12 tapes and they were turned over to prosecution. WOuldn’t be the first time CNN selectively edited a tape.

    The meaning of cash is the latest non issue to get uninformed people worked up about. If he used campaign money there would be an issue, the claim they hope to muddle in there.

    Tillman, that hissing sound you hear is localized.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  6. Khuzaimi is the front man, but he’s not doing anything Giuliani didn’t premiere, but let’s not pretend Mueller isn’t involved.

    Narciso (1c20b2)

  7. I wonder if “our friend David” could be “David Denison”. Think there’s a chance, but I’m not sure. The weird way of referencing is the main clue – they don’t speak elliptically about names otherwise.

    bobble (51fdf0)

  8. We should take up a collection for whoever took out Traitor Trump’s Walk of Fame star. Turnabout’s fair play, eh Agent Orange-atan?
    http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-trump-campaign-protests-20160313-story.html

    Tillman (d34303)

  9. this is from the cache of crap the hot and horny men and women of the perverted FBI stole from Mr. Cohen’s office

    crap which has eff all to do with Russian Collusion

    but that’s cause gestapo lick-lick Bobby Mueller’s entire investigation is a hoax

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  10. You gotta imagine Trump is having a very hard time communicating with attorneys these days.

    Also, I wonder what recordings Cohen still has, perhaps as protection.

    The meaning of cash is the latest non issue to get uninformed people worked up about. If he used campaign money there would be an issue,

    It was a campaign expense. They are clearly talking about killing issues quickly, the Ivana divorce proceedings, and managing the run-up to the vote. It’s preposterous that this wasn’t 100% about the election.

    Is it too much to ask that our president be a moral and faithful man, and his answer to questions is to simply answer them, instead of employ a phalanx of scummy lawyers (these particularly lawyers, I mean) to deceive us?

    Is it too much to ask that conservative republicans not defend those practices while the echos of screaming about Clinton and Lewinksy are still bouncing off the walls?

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  11. this is from the cache of crap the hot and horny men and women of the perverted FBI stole from Mr. Cohen’s office

    No, it’s very clear that Lanny Davis sourced this recording.

    Also, if the FBI is sleazy because of one affair, it must be very upsetting to you to learn about all the playboy girls that your president purchased while his new younger model of wife was recovering from giving birth to a child.

    🙂

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  12. OK, why do we care? Trump is a womanizer. He’s always been a womanizer. He was a womanizer before he ran for office. He was a widely known womanizer WHILE he ran for office. How. Is. This. News?

    OK, the Left Media (which is most of it) doesn’t like Trump. We get that. But, seriously? My gut reaction to this is “At least he has better taste than Bubba Clinton”.

    C. S. P. Schofield (0b343f)

  13. I listened a few more times and it sounds like Trump is saying “pay with cash” but I really can’t tell for sure and I still don’t understand why it matters more than a little.

    Patterico (cff84e)

  14. I wonder if “our friend David” could be “David Denison”. Think there’s a chance, but I’m not sure. The weird way of referencing is the main clue – they don’t speak elliptically about names otherwise.

    Interesting. Possible!

    Patterico (cff84e)

  15. No they mean pecker publisher of the enquirer.

    Narciso (1c20b2)

  16. UPDATE: Interesting question raised by bobble in the comments: perhaps “our friend David” refers to David Dennison (an alias Trump used in these payoffs) rather than David Pecker.

    Not impossible at all.

    Patterico (cff84e)

  17. No they mean pecker publisher of the enquirer.

    That’s what I originally said in the post, but how do we know that for sure?

    Patterico (cff84e)

  18. I have to agree with Narciso; it’s probably Pecker.

    Tillman (d34303)

  19. OK, but what is the basis for this opinion?

    Patterico (cff84e)

  20. The Enquirer is who performed the “Catch and Kill,” right?
    https://money.cnn.com/2018/02/16/media/trump-catch-and-kill/index.html

    Tillman (d34303)

  21. UPDATE x2: On second thought, the “maybe he gets hit by a truck” line seems more consistent with it being Pecker.

    Patterico (cff84e)

  22. And I can’t help but wonder when I see you looking there with a little smirk, how many times did you look so innocent into your wife’s eye and lie to her about Lisa Page?”

    AZ Bob (885937)

  23. Does it matter that no payment was ever made? Does this hep anyone in sorting out inconsistencies or garbled audio?

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/trumps-former-lawyer-michael-cohen-formed-delaware-company-to-pay-playboy-model-1532526807

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  24. Remember, “what you’re seeing, what you’re reading, isn’t happening” He left out hearing, but that was just an oversight.

    Colonel Klink (f9132f)

  25. David Pecker had already paid her, this was just whether to reimburse him.

    Colonel Klink (f9132f)

  26. > “maybe he gets hit by a truck” line seems more consistent with it being Pecker.

    Ah, good catch. In context I’m really not sure what that would mean if it were “Denison”.

    bobble (51fdf0)

  27. Good to know that Lanny Davis comes down firmly on the side of wronged women in their sexual escapades with powerful men.

    Now, two questions for the lawyers here:

    Should Michael Cohen be disbarred for taping a client’s privileged conversation, then releasing it to the media?

    Should Lanny Davis be disbarred for releasing a tape of a privileged conversation to the media?

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  28. Third question:

    Which is more unethical: Discussing an under-the-table payment to a potential plaintiff, taping said conversation without notice to your client, or releasing said conversation to the media?

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  29. Donald Trump complains on Twitter that the tape ends abruptly, which is typically dishonest of him as the sudden end is almost certainly for his protection (my educated guess is that attorney-client privileged materials immediately follow).

    It was leaked by Lanny Davis, alongtime Clinton minion, who is now Michael Cohen’s lawyer.

    So I would assume it wss leaked to hurt Trump.

    On top of that there is dsispute about what is on the tape. A very low quality recording was leaked. I suspect it’s bene degraded.

    Giuliani says Trump’s lawyers prepared a transcript – Lanny Davis did not issue atranscript but
    spins dark hints.

    The low quality recording reminds me of the recording supposedly showing the Branch Davidians preparing to start the fire where they claimed lots of things could be heard. Enough of that!

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  30. The payment had already been made. Michael Cohen brought up the idea of buying out American Media.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  31. Is it too much to ask that our president be a moral and faithful [person]

    A choice we did not have in November 2016. A choice we do not always get, matter of fact.

    Is it too much to ask that conservative republicans not defend those practices while the echos of screaming about Clinton and Lewinksy are still bouncing off the walls?

    Um, did Trump commit perjury? That’s what Clinton was impeached for. And, since you mention it, Lanny Davis, the source of this tape, was Clinton’s lawyer during that period.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  32. The payment had already been made. Michael Cohen brought up the idea of buying out American Media.

    That may be, but the payment discussed on this tape was never made.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  33. #29 (Sammy)

    It was leaked by Lanny Davis, alongtime Clinton minion, who is now Michael Cohen’s lawyer.

    So I would assume it wss leaked to hurt Trump

    If this is the worst they’ve got, it’s not going to hurt Trump. I think there is a message that Cohen is willing to hurt Trump, so get that pardon pen out. Given Trump’s inability to be loyal to anyone who does business with him, making threats in this way is not the worst tactic.

    Appalled (96665e)

  34. Dustin,

    If it makes you feel better, yes, Trump is a multiple dumpster fire. But he is also the subject of massively one-sided reporting and whatever the opposite is of the “blind eye” the press turned towards Obama. Eye of Sauron?

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  35. A choice we did not have in November 2016. A choice we do not always get, matter of fact.

    Good point. The GOP absolutely failed to provide a good moral candidate.

    Um, did Trump commit perjury?

    He hasn’t been under oath, so he doesn’t get any credit from any honest person for this. Trump has lied and lied and schemed to lie. He has done everything he can to obstruct justice, trying to fire investigators or lean on the AG.

    That’s what Clinton was impeached for.

    But it’s not what you Republicans were preaching about endlessly. Yes, both Trump and Clinton are liars, and both Trump and Clinton are sleazy towards women and their wedding vows. But one is a Team R guy so you’re going to defend this.

    Lanny Davis, the source of this tape, was Clinton’s lawyer

    and donald trump his donor. What’s your point? Why see the world in terms of “oh he’s a damn democrat!!!!” Who cares? Both parties are the same.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  36. Discussing an under-the-table payment to a potential plaintiff, taping said conversation without notice to your client, or releasing said conversation to the media?

    Kevin M (5d3e49) — 7/25/2018 @ 9:57 am

    It wouldn’t surprise me if Trump’s lawyer was a criminal. It would surprise me more if Trump’s lawyer was ethical.

    When criminal defendants argue that they had ineffective assistance from counsel, sometimes that means the dirty secrets come out. If Trump’s bashing Cohen’s performance, that does open some doors to Cohen showing truth about the leader of the Republican Party’s efforts to mislead the American people about Trump’s behavior with this playboy girl.

    Compared to the GOP collusion with the Soviets, it seems pretty minor, but we don’t know everything that was hidden yet.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  37. 10 “It was a campaign expense.” Not a single report anywhere has substantiated this claim, if your going to attack someone on honesty shouldn’t you do it without telling a lie yourself?

    When was the last moral and faithful President? Bush maybe while in office. Why do morals and faithfulness suddenly matter now when they haven’t the past 200 years?

    Clinton lied under oath which is a crime, Trump has not, another dishonest analogy by someone questioning Trump’s honesty. When you stop shoveling lies then maybe we will listen to your complaints about Trump’s.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  38. But it’s not what you Republicans were preaching about endlessly.

    1) “You Republicans”: I left the GOP the say day our host did, for the same reason. I’ve not yet returned but if I am FORCED to choose sides, that’s the side I’ll pick.

    2) Pretty sure that I was very clear about the perjury. I know that Patterico was.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  39. President Trump’s handling this with such graciousness and dignity. He’s unruffled and exudes quiet confidence.

    He’s not stoic exactly, just so plainly a much bigger person than his would-be persecutors.

    I admire that about him.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  40. The Enquirer is who performed the “Catch and Kill,” right?
    https://money.cnn.com/2018/02/16/media/trump-catch-and-kill/index.html

    Tillman (d34303) — 7/25/2018 @ 9:46 am

    Indeed, that’s who the Republican Party has been using for political sleaze, while pretending it has any moral authority to bash Democrats for the same sort of sleaze.

    Has any Democrat president been remotely as dishonest as Trump? It’s hard to think of an example. Kevin’s right that Billy committed perjury, but then, Trump’s settled a lot of fraud cases. A judge recently made Trump pay $25 million to his fraud victims.

    Why is the GOP so concerned about lying and sex scandals? Because they want to project their sins.

    Meanwhile, has the GOP kept its 2016 promise to balance the budget? Nope. I guess all the Hastert, Foley, and Trump style of leadership doesn’t leave time for actually doing anything meaningful.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  41. Compared to the GOP collusion with the Soviets

    1) Soviets? Pretty sure that was the Democrats.

    2) You do realize that this is a truther-meme, don’t you?

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  42. Why do morals and faithfulness suddenly matter now when they haven’t the past 200 years?

    This is the best Trump defenders have to offer. Be proud.

    Patterico (cff84e)

  43. It is often said that clients pick lawyers having the same personality as they do.

    AZ Bob (885937)

  44. Good to know that Lanny Davis comes down firmly on the side of wronged women in their sexual escapades with powerful men.

    It’s simply a matter of zealously defending the client, whoever the client is, no? AFAIK, lawyers are supposed to do that.

    Dave (445e97)

  45. Has any Democrat president been remotely as dishonest as Trump? It’s hard to think of an example

    Let’s start with LBJ. Known vote thief. Known adulterer (he even had a special “office” at the Capitol for trysts when he was Majority Leader). Then there’s the whole VietNam War thing, starting with accusing Goldwater of being the warmonger, then sending 550,000 troops to Vietnam the next year. The “Credibility Gap” was coined to refer to his many many lies. And I haven’t even mentioned his role in killing Kennedy.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  46. It’s simply a matter of zealously defending the client, whoever the client is, no? AFAIK, lawyers are supposed to do that.

    Apparently not Mr Cohen.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  47. and these same dirty CNN Jake Tapper fake news propaganda sluts are still hiding the khalidi tape

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  48. Not all conversations between an attorney and client are privileged. Plus on the recording, their were lots of people popping in and out, which says its not a private communication with priveleged work product. Plus plus, Cohen doesn’t appear to act as attorney in any meaningful way, he was a business partner who happened to have went to law school. Literally the worst law school in America.

    Patterico can comment on his experience getting evidence from a bent attorney.

    Colonel Klink (f9132f)

  49. 23 Payment not being made avoids a ton of potential problems legally, not that Dustin and the never Trumpers wont try to spin them anyways.

    If payment had been made source of funds would be scrutinized, potentially opening up a review of all of his banking? They have already claimed it was a campaign expense which is an interesting claim seeing that no money was sent. They might be able to go after National Enquirer for making an in kind contribution? That doesn’t imperial Trump though. It’s another big nothing the anti Trump will desperatly try to spin into something.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  50. This is the best Trump defenders have to offer. Be proud.

    If only we could have had Hillary!

    I tried, I really really tried to avoid having Trump as the nominee. I am certain I did not have a good thing to say about the man until after the stunning election upset. And then it has mostly been, “but he’s not Hillary.”

    And no matter what happens in his term, short of global thermonuclear war, he will have been a better president than Hillary Clinton. She, and her whole fukking party, are the enemy, and I will NOT give them aid and comfort.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  51. Apparently not Mr Cohen.

    He mortgaged his house to pay for one of Trump’s romps with an over-priced hooker.

    And Trump’s response when he caught heat for it?

    “What have you done for me lately?

    Dave (445e97)

  52. The tapes are not privileged, Trump waived any claims in the Cohen case.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  53. are still hiding the khalidi tape

    Well, they promised not to release it, and you know how those journalists are about ethics in their reporting.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  54. Sure shows us a lot, who is still carrying partisan water after Trump’s comments that America is stupid, in context of defending Putin, and in context of this recording of how Trump handled his presidential campaign expenses.

    I guess the partisans will just pound the table even harder, but they won’t be getting my vote. They sold out the country.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  55. 34… “a dumpster fire”… as if that point hasn’t been made and conceded 100 times or more…

    Colonel Haiku (207293)

  56. The tapes are not privileged, Trump waived any claims in the Cohen case.

    Nate Ogden

    I didn’t understand what you meant before. Interesting point!

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  57. Aid and comfort is their order of the day…

    Colonel Haiku (207293)

  58. He mortgaged his house to pay for one of Trump’s romps with an over-priced hooker.

    So he’s stupid AND unethical.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  59. 42 “This is the best Trump defenders have to offer. Be proud.”

    Who said it was our best? That’s a subjective decision that you made. I see you avoided answering it still.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  60. 12 years in the rearview mirror and the applicable FEC regulations were not violated.

    Next!

    Colonel Haiku (207293)

  61. Payment not being made avoids a ton of potential problems legally, not that Dustin and the never Trumpers wont try to spin them anyways.

    LOL yeah, it’s spin to criticize someone for a scheme to have a fake journalist ‘buy’ a story about Trump’s serial sleeping around on his wives, this time who just gave birth, in the run up to a vote. Yeah, I’m just spinning this like crazy to find anything unethical.

    Calling that “spinning” is projection Trump would be proud of. Accuse people of doing what you’re doing, in hopes it just muddies the waters and makes it convoluted. That’s how liars operate. The GOP is a party of liars.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  62. At the risk of reopening another issue, The Obama regime was TERRIBLE in its foreign policy, from Honduras to Russia to the Middle East. Trump was right in saying that the deterioration of US-Russian relations was not all on Putin.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  63. Nate, Trump lies constantly. It’s not criminal to lie. But he does it a lot. More than Reagan/Bush/Bush/Obama. (I left Clinton off on purpose) All politicians say things that aren’t really true. But most seem to at least try to tell the truth. Try to have an interpenetration that makes they’re statements ‘true’. Trump lies blatantly. Trump lies when it barely matters, like in this case. Trump sticks to the lie and lies about the lie and accuses people who disagree of lying. He’s done that here. He barely seems to care about if a statement is true or false so long as it’s beneficial to him. This is not an unimportant character flaw in a leader.

    Time123 (cd2ff4)

  64. Even if this tape turns out to be real it doesn’t mean President Trump did anything wrong at all.

    People are getting way ahead of the story here.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  65. It didn’t happen.

    “Just stick with us. Don’t believe the crap you see from these people — the fake news.”- – Traitor Trump addressing VFW Convention, July 24, 2018.

    “Six times I’ve turned in my resignation. Six times I’ve turned it down.” – The Big Dick [David Frye] ‘Richard Nixon – A Fantasy’ [David Frye] LP, 1973

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrDkZiCOwhQ

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  66. 40 “Has any Democrat president been remotely as dishonest as Trump? It’s hard to think of an example.”

    What has Trump lied about? Crowd size? When he will fulfill campaign promises?

    Go all the way back to Obama, Selling guns to Drug cartels. giving billion to Iran to fund terrorism. ACA screwing up 1/5th of our economy. The impact of any one of those lies is far greater than all of Trump’s lies combined.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  67. Now sometimes the enquirer has not been as diligent, like when it put out lies about the huntress not once about four times

    Narciso (8139ac)

  68. 63 Time123 how do you measure Obama’s lies compared to Trumps? The ACA was one long huge lie, nothing about it was honest. What Trump lie has had nearly that impact on the nation? Millions of people lost their insurance due to Obama lies. Millions of jobs impacted. Hundreds of billions in increased cost.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  69. The really funny part about this is that a 6 figure campaign finance violation isn’t a huge deal. They’ve happened before, they’ll happen again. In a presidential campaign there’s a lot of money moving around. If there isn’t a clear intent to violate the law I think the typical resolution is

    1. Admit the error.
    2. Promise not to do it again.
    3. Pay a fine.

    I’ve read articles that other campaigns have had to do that.

    This would be embarrassing, but as several of his supporters have pointed out, Trump is garbage and everyone who voted for him knew that. This doesn’t change anything. He could probably have said “Yes, i had an affair and paid to keep it out of the paper. Billionaires pay lawyers to take care of this stuff all the time. If he did the paperwork wrong we will pay the fine and see if it comes out of his retainer.”

    Time123 (441f53)

  70. DCSCA is correct. Trump specifically said this didn’t happen. He used the term “fake news” when lying to the VFW. Of course, Trump has expressed contempt for veterans and probably was pleased to have the chance to lie to them.

    “so what?” “how is this news?”

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  71. This is a far-fetched scenario that’s for sure

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  72. This would be embarrassing, but as several of his supporters have pointed out, Trump is garbage and everyone who voted for him knew that. This doesn’t change anything.

    Great point.

    I think there’s probably something more to it though. Cohen knows where a lot of Trump’s bodies are buried, and this period of time was rich with collusion between the Trump campaign and basically Soviets who want Americans dead (let’s just be clear about how serious I find it for the GOP to be in bed with those bastards).

    Yes, we all know Trump is physically violent towards some of his spouses, that he sleeps with a lot of people, that he grabs them ‘by the pussy’ etc etc. We know he’s garbage. But Cohen and Trump being played against eachother is a pretty big deal indeed anyhow.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  73. 70 How is it a campaign finance violation?

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  74. Trump was right in saying that the deterioration of US-Russian relations was not all on Putin.

    Nonsense on stilts.

    You can’t have it both ways – mocking Obama for the stupid reset button, and then claiming he somehow forced Russia to invade its neighbor, meddle in our election, shoot down airliners, murder people with polonium and nerve gas, etc.

    Obama fell all over himself trying to woo Putin, and only belatedly realized that he was being played. To his credit, Obama did eventually take a tougher line, but that was a consequence of the steady stream of Russian misdeeds, not the cause.

    But this “blame America” business is unalloyed RT propaganda. The United States would have no quarrel with a Russia that focused on improving the lives of its people without fishing in troubled waters to foment instability and behaving like being gangsters.

    Dave (445e97)

  75. Well, here is the lies of last 6 months, its only a thousand or so, he’s 4,000 in since inauguration. He’s only running slightly ahead of Obama, W, Clinton, HW, Reagan, Carter, and Ford, combined.

    Colonel Klink (f9132f)

  76. What has Trump lied about? Crowd size? When he will fulfill campaign promises?

    Good question. Trump has lied about seemingly everything he has spoken about, with the sole exception of his judicial appointments. Trump lied about a whole host of campaign pledges. The most important one to me is the balanced budget, but on foreign policy, Trump was very clear that he was no friend to Russia, and that’s a clear lie. Trump promised absurd results, such as the elimination of ISIS in 100 days. The only defense I’ve heard is that this promise is impossible to accomplish. I agree, but still many of Trump’s promises were broken basically at the time they were offered because he had no intention of following through.

    Trump lied about the existence of this sleazy playboy national enquirer conversation, remember? He called it fake news.

    Trump lied about why he fired Comey. It’s pretty damn clear Trump did that in order to obstruct the investigation Comey was performing.

    And I think this is all leading there. I think this stuff with Cohen is not actually about Trump’s sleazy payoff behavior. It’s really about the Russian investigation.

    But I do find the family values aspect interesting. How many times did you hear someone call into Rush or some other conservative show, during the primary, to praise Trump for having such a beautiful family, and praising what a great family man he was from a Christian perspective. That was paid propaganda from a guy paying off his hookers. It’s fascinating and disappointing.

    I would love to just sit back and munch on popcorn while both parties implode over hypocrisy, but I love my country and the baby boomers are really leaving it in ashes.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  77. @54. They sold out the country.

    Yep. Can’t wash the Helstinki off this one.

    And anybody who tries to help Traitor Trump spin around this– from the crew aboard the Russian Troller Red Fox, on blogs, on editorial boards, in White House press briefings, perched mutely around Cabinet tables, in Congressional cloak rooms, in bars, bed or otherwise- is essentially complicit; an enabler and a Russian ‘colluder.’

    It’s worth repeating this over and over for all Trumpanovs – as is Traitor Trump’s ‘modus operandi:’

    Traitor Trump strode on to the global stage in Helsinki, Finland, stood just five feet from Russia’s Putin, a trained KGB agent, dropped his pants, and sh!t on every American citizen in front of a worldwide audience, then to Vlad’s utter delight, wiped his azz w/t U.S. flag.

    End of story.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  78. Actually Dustin is very much diminished, russia has been aggressively checked on a,number of fronts, you didn’t want to go war with him right?

    Narciso (8139ac)

  79. Obama fell all over himself trying to woo Putin

    Obama and Hillary got Putin to disengage from Ukraine, then spent the next year changing the regime there to someone hostile to Moscow. Russia had long-standing national security interests in the Crimean bases and was no more likely to sit still for losing them than we would sit still for being denied the Panama Canal (see Poppy Bush’s invasion of same).

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  80. 70 How is it a campaign finance violation?

    Nate Ogden

    Since creating the shell corporation discussed in that recording was for an obvious campaign expense in excess of $25,000, it’s a felony conspiracy. The company made a in-kind contribution when it gave McDougal that money.

    The shell company didn’t pay McDougal for a journalistic purpose. The plan is obviously that it was to hide a scandal for Trump’s presidential campaign’s needs. The only problem is that the only evidence I’ve seen is this shady tape from Trump’s lawyer. So unless this was an inevitable discovery or unless Trump really did waive his privilege, perhaps it’s merely a crime we see but can’t see justice for.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  81. Actually Dustin is very much diminished

    Putin, too.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  82. Actually Dustin is very much diminished, russia has been aggressively checked on a,number of fronts, you didn’t want to go war with him right?

    Narciso (8139ac) — 7/25/2018 @ 11:05 am

    I have been losing weight. Thanks for noticing! I thank my rowing machine and cutting out carbs as much as I can.

    Russia is our enemy, Narciso. They want to corrupt our democracy itself. Their government hates the human rights I cherish, including free speech, and they kill journalists.

    Your fear of war with Russia is very reasonable, but it doesn’t mean we stop criticizing what we see.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  83. perhaps it’s merely a crime we see but can’t see justice for.

    Since the “conspiracy” did not lead to any action, and the only evidence of a conspiracy is a poor audiotape, I guess it just depends on who you hate.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  84. Other than out puppet Yeltsin (who was a massive thief), Putin is the most reasonable, Democratic and tolerant ruler of Russia since, well, ever. Try to avoid the chronic perspective loss.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  85. Yep. Can’t wash the Helstinki off this one.

    It’s pretty frustrating. You can’t stop the Trump fan-trolls from just laughing about evil. Who cares about that? But the narcisos and Kevins have been here for years telling us about ethical lapses from democrats. They defend this stuff today. The ‘oh but Bill perjured himself, how did Trump do that?!!?!??!?!!!??!’ argument is particularly … well… it’s particularly deplorable.

    I see these guys as the GOP that remains today. They know it’s wrong but they are dedicated to swimming through a river of crap of that gets them across the finish line and beats democrats.

    For me, the GOP is the obstacle to conservatism, as it sucks up all the votes and energy to do things like balance the budget. Why would anyone support them?

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  86. It has grown evermore apparent that teh media (with bylines) aren’t the ONLY Democrat operatives…

    Colonel Haiku (207293)

  87. with the sole exception of his judicial appointments.

    He promised to appoint “pro-life judges” who would overturn Roe.

    Neil Gorsuch, under oath, explicitly denied holding any such pro-life position, or having any intention of overturning Roe.

    GORSUCH: As the book explains, the Supreme Court of the United States has held in Roe v. Wade that a fetus is not a person for purposes of the 14th Amendment and the book explains that.

    SENATOR DURBIN: Do you accept that?

    GORSUCH: I accept the law of the land, senator, yes.

    Gorsuch also testified under oath that Trump never even discussed Roe with him.

    You can bet that Brett Kavanaugh will testify to the same.

    Bottom line: don’t give him a pass on this. His promise on judicial appointments was just another shameless and irresponsible Trump lie. Gorsuch’s testimony (under penalty of perjury) proves it.

    Dave (445e97)

  88. 71. Dustin (ba94b2) — 7/25/2018 @ 10:59 am

    Trump was very clear that he was no friend to Russia, and that’s a clear lie

    What, what what?

    Trump never said he was no friend to Russia. He said he was not a puppet and so on but why wouldn’t ikit be good to have good relations with Russia, and they could help us fight terrorism.

    It’s TODAY YESTERDAY – that Trump is saying he is no friend to Russia.

    So much so that Russia probably wants the Democrats to gain in the midterm elections.

    Donald J. Trump‏
    Verified account @realDonaldTrump · Jul 24

    I’m very concerned that Russia will be fighting very hard to have an impact on the upcoming Election. Based on the fact that no President has been tougher on Russia than me, they will be pushing very hard for the Democrats. They definitely don’t want Trump!

    :50 AM – 24 Jul 2018

    I don’t know if you could call that a lie. Trump doesn’t actually say they will be pushing very hard for the Democrats. He makes a specious argument that they will. I suspect he only makesd an argument because he knosws it is a ridiculous statement.

    And it not untrue that Trump was tougher (in terms of sanctions) than previous presidents.

    But Congress passed some laws and he’s been pushed, and it’s later. The argument that therefore, because the sanctions on Russia now are tougher than what was laid on Russia by Obama, the Russians have to be favoring the Democrats is, well, something Trump has to know is specious.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  89. President Trump’s doing the good policies to stanch Russian ambition that’s for sure!

    People what are lick-lick all up on Putin are coward-pig trash like John McCain and Carlos Curbelo who try to knee-cap American oil production.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  90. Yeltsin on paper, was an ally, but the dance of the oligarchs and the reign of the bratva happened on his watch. This is why most of the liberal reformers have been discredited in russia.

    Narciso (8139ac)

  91. That didn’t happen, and if it did, it wasn’t a crime, and even if it did, it wasn’t my crime, and even if it was, everybody does it…….

    Colonel Klink (f9132f)

  92. @79.So spins The Colludin’ Cuban from his summer dacha in Crimea.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  93. 75 Dave your beating strawmen. How does the US getting Boris Yelstin elected in 96 fit in your timeline? Your the one picking Ukraine invasion and the points in time and saying that is when relations went bad. When did Trump mention any of those points in time?

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  94. 76 Your link says 2029, so your telling lies trying to paint Trump as a liar, so typical.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  95. 81 “Since creating the shell corporation discussed in that recording was for an obvious campaign expense in excess of $25,000,”

    Obvious to who? What evidence have you seen that his campaign made a payment? Campaigns are legal entities, what you appear to be saying is anything a person does who is running for office is campaign related, which is just false. Everything you list in 81 and 76 are your opinions, usually factually wrong.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  96. Trump never said he was no friend to Russia

    Right, right. The Trump fan 2+2=5 defense. Just lie a lot and Trump’s critics will eventually get tired of a debating a brick wall.

    I’m very concerned that Russia will be fighting very hard to have an impact on the upcoming Election. Based on the fact that no President has been tougher on Russia than me, they will be pushing very hard for the Democrats. They definitely don’t want Trump!

    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 24, 2018

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  97. @86. Doesn’t matter if you’re conservative, liberal, a centrist, red, blue, union or confederate, New Yorker or Texan: what Traitor Trump did to all Americans in Helsinki is completely, totally and unconditionally unforgivable.

    Those who’ve had some international exposure/experience at varying levels of business and government know the drill and directives all too well; even the most mundane American tourist understands they’re representing the country as well as their own interests when travelling and interacting overseas. Whether Traitor Trump realizes it or not, he has diminished respect and leverage for American citizens and endangered them on levels he and his cadre of colluders can’t comprehend.

    He will not be allowed to move on and get away with this. The jackass doesn’t get a do-over; there are no second chances to make a first impression, particularly after boasting he’d been ‘preparing for this his whole life.’ He can’t talk his way out of it w/word play. It’s impossible to put any colluding spit ‘Shine’ on this turd. No way. Traitor Trump is now and will always be known as the Helstinker of Helstinki.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  98. Consider that Tweet, where Trump claims Russia will tamper with the US election to help Trump’s opponents, against Trump’s recent claims that Russia never tampered with the 2016 election.

    Just that alone, dishonesty about Russia attacking our democracy, should mean Trump has virtually no support left. It’s enough.

    Consider that Trump not only retains his die-hard fanatics, but actually is gaining defenders from those very, very loyal to the GOP. There’s where the sickness is. I’m told Trump never claimed he wasn’t a friend to Russia the day after Trump says “it’s a fact no president has been tougher on Russia than me”

    Trump can be caught lying and not fear because his defenders relish the lying. They think establishing a shell company to conduct a campaign expense to buy off a prostitute is a sign of savvy and strength.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  99. Helsinki was a beautiful summit where America stood tall and put Russia on notice that we would vigorously defend our interests first but seek areas of cooperation as well.

    This is why President Trump is properly understood as the best president in our lifetimes.

    Did you know Elon has five kids

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  100. twins in 2004 triplets in 2006

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  101. From the FEC

    “While campaigns have wide discretion in deciding how to spend their funds, the Federal Election Campaign Act places certain restrictions on the use of campaign funds.

    An expenditure is a purchase, payment, distribution, loan, advance, deposit or gift of money or anything of value to influence a federal election. “Disbursement” is a broader term that covers both expenditures and other kinds of payments (those not made to influence a federal election). All disbursements are reportable by the campaign.

    Disbursements must be made by check or similar draft drawn on an account maintained at the committee’s designated depository.”

    The potential claim rest of the argument he was buying her silence to influence a federal election, these NDAs are done all the time, what proof do you have they only did it this time to influence the election? Your bigger issue is what did they give for it? The campaign and Trump didn’t give anything, that alone kills your claim.

    If your going to argue the payment that never happened was some how a campaign expenditure then how does it not pass the irrespective test? “Conversely, any expense that results from campaign or officeholder activity falls outside the personal use ban.”

    “In several advisory opinions the Commission has said that campaign funds may be used to pay for up to 100% of legal expenses related to campaign or officeholder activity, where such expenses would not have occurred had the individual not been a candidate or officeholder.”

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  102. The Clinton or Democratic party lies are much more skillful and insidious. Like what’s going on now with the tape. We’re getting partial leaks, and I don’t buy that Lanny Davis is legally precluded by attorney client privilege or anything else from releasing the rest of the recording. He gives no explanation as to why it is cut off, or for that matter, why it is of such poor quality. He makes sure it goes viral and the spin goes viral before he lets it out that he’s the source.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  103. There was also Putin’s invasion of Georgia in 2008, giving asylum to Edward Snowden, 12 murders of former Russians in the UK since 2003, with actual weapons of mass destruction, polonium and nerve gas (novochok).

    That’s just a bit, there’s also the matter of stealing $230 billion from his own country, but that doesn’t effect us.

    Colonel Klink (f9132f)

  104. spent the next year changing the regime there

    Baloney. The US involvement was laughably low-key, and consisted of verbal encouragement.

    Again, you can’t have it both ways. This was the limp-wristed, weak-in-the-knees Obama administration, remember? And now you want us to believe they were covertly astroturfing a coup halfway across the world? Absurd. Sure, the US (and every other civilized country) wanted to see a democratic, peaceful, and independent Ukraine. But we were spectators and (at most) cheerleaders.

    Meanwhile, Putin, true to his form, was playing the gangster, making threats and calling for a bloodbath.

    So if Russia blackmails and/or invades another of the other former captives of the Soviet era, will the resulting diplomatic unpleasantness again be our fault, for having the temerity to express displeasure?

    Dave (445e97)

  105. The first question about this is: Was what the National Enquirer did a co-ordinated expense, and thus a campaign contribution, or was it an independent expenditure?

    The point that Giuliani makes in saying it is exculpatory is that Trump is informed only after the fact.

    (The New York Times argues in its news story that Trump seemed to be familiar with the concept of buying out the contract, so maybe he knew about this before the payment was made)

    An even better point is that Trump never actually re-imbursed America Media.

    And there’s a big question over whether anything like this would be proper camapaign expense.

    And campaign finance laws are designed for the case in which the contributor has more money than the candidate.

    Trump spending his own money on his own behalf without recording it is basically an accounting problem. Even if he had reported it, and had no evaded disclosure by such means as Hillary Clinton used in hiring Christopher Steele, it still would have come out until after the election.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  106. @100. Elon has ‘Spaceballs‘ Mr. Feet; wants to send his kin to Mars… Mars, Pennsylvania, that is. In a RV.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  107. That, was lies since December of 2017.

    So what you’re saying is that if it was ONLY 2029 lies, its fine.

    Colonel Klink (f9132f)

  108. 106. Dave (445e97) — 7/25/2018 @ 11:43 am

    This was the limp-wristed, weak-in-the-knees Obama administration, remember? And now you want us to believe they were covertly astroturfing a coup halfway across the world? Absurd.

    Putin didn’t believe it.

    What he did believe was that Victoria Nuland, in helping jump start the coup, was acting on behalf of Hillary Clinton and not really Barack Obama. I think it was neither.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  109. The potential claim rest of the argument he was buying her silence to influence a federal election, these NDAs are done all the time, what proof do you have they only did it this time to influence the election? Your bigger issue is what did they give for it? The campaign and Trump didn’t give anything, that alone kills your claim.

    Good question indeed. The conversation is pretty clear about making these various stories die as quickly as possible. It is a matter of common sense that they were silencing this scandal with that purpose.

    Your bigger issue is what did they give for it?

    On the contrary. The giving clearly happened because the shell company the campaign is discussing in the recording did pay her and bury the story. That’s the in-kind contribution.

    At any rate, obviously there something very dishonest and unethical happening here. The GOP campaign is trying very hard to mislead Americans before they vote. They seem to be conspiring to do so with a dummy company and a very loyal newspaper. Those insisting these investigations shut down are worried about what the investigations will find, not that there’s nothing turning up. It will take a good judge to sort through these great issues you’re raising, but as far as my vote is concerned, I am very proud I’ve never supported this sleazy guy for anything.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  110. I can’t imagine taping a client under any circumstances, but to leak it to the public just seems over the top. I also don’t understand why Trump didn’t claim attorney-client privilege, assuming he didn’t. Will Mr. Cohen now face bar inquiries?

    Rochf (877dba)

  111. This is the same Victoria nuland who preferred the benghazi talking points.

    Narciso (8139ac)

  112. I’m not an attorney but consider myself pretty learned in legal ways. I’ve never heard of a level of evidence or doubt called common sense. “It is a matter of common sense that they were silencing this scandal with that purpose.”

    It is a matter of common sense that Hillary mismanaged classified info, IRS targeted conservatives, Ted Kennedy killed that girl, Obama sold guns to drug cartels, and OJ is a murder, yet all got off? What happened to this standard of common sense you refer to?

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  113. 112. Dustin (ba94b2) — 7/25/2018 @ 11:49 am

    The giving clearly happened because the shell company the campaign is discussing in the recording did pay her and bury the story. That’s the in-kind contribution.

    No, the shell company was used to pay Stormy Daniels, not reimburse the National Enquirer. (it was later used for some other purposes by Cohen)

    It could very well be that in the portion of the tape not released, Trump decided against reimbursing the National Enquirer’s parent corporation.

    Even if he had done it, and he never did, the motivation suggested by Michael Cohen is that the National Enquirer might change its mind – maybe because of a change of ownership or control.

    They are thinking way past the election.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  114. White House says Trump won’t meet Putin until next year

    [Traitor] Donald Trump will not host Russian President Vladimir Putin in Washington until 2019, White House national security adviser [Walrus Gumbo] said Wednesday, because it is Trump’s preference not to do so until “the Russia witch hunt is over.” – http://www.politico.com

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  115. @94 Dave your beating strawmen. How does the US getting Boris Yelstin elected in 96 fit in your timeline? Your the one picking Ukraine invasion and the points in time and saying that is when relations went bad.

    So wait. Are you saying Putin hates us for helping the man who

    1) rewrote the Russian constitution to give the president dictatorial powers,
    2) raised Putin out of obscurity to be his right-hand man, and then
    3) appointed him to the job he currently holds?

    To quote our illustrious host:

    DE LOGIC, SHE NO FOLLOW

    Dave (445e97)

  116. 113 I’m guessing that Trump either didn’t want the relationship to be attorney client for some reason or feels this matter not being conducted with his attorney benefits him some how?

    Cohen set up the LLC and paid the money. If he was not Trump’s attorney, what liability does Trump or his campaign have for the actions of this individual? Neither Trump nor his campaign paid a penny, despite Dustin’s desperate claims otherwise. Cohen might have broke campaign finance laws but I have yet to see any evidence Trump or his campaign were involved.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  117. Donald Trump complains on Twitter that the tape ends abruptly, which is typically dishonest of him as the sudden end is almost certainly for his protection (my educated guess is that attorney-client privileged materials immediately follow).
    Patterico @ 8:55 am

    Circular reasoning is what passes for an educated guess? Trump is dishonest so therefore Trump was being dishonest.

    Trump waived privilege on the tape.

    Anon Y. Mous (acdecf)

  118. Was what the National Enquirer did a co-ordinated expense, and thus a campaign contribution, or was it an independent expenditure?

    They are conspiring to do this in the recording. Claims Trump didn’t know where apparently lies. This reminds me of the old Breitbart expose’s where they would release a bit, then wait for lies to explain it, then release a bit more exposing the lies, etc etc.

    Those who’ve had some international exposure/experience at varying levels of business and government know the drill and directives all too well; even the most mundane American tourist understands they’re representing the country as well as their own interests when travelling and interacting overseas. Whether Traitor Trump realizes it or not, he has diminished respect and leverage for American citizens and endangered them on levels he and his cadre of colluders can’t comprehend.

    Yeah, I agree with this. Many of Trump’s defenders here were freaking out that Obama bowed to the leader of Japan. Obama showed overly deferential respect to our ally. Oh no.

    But Trump calls America quote “STUPID” and defends Putin, our enemy? Freedom loving people all over the world, folks in Poland or Kuwait or England, will remember that the USA is no longer reliable even on this.

    I don’t even know what the point of the term “nevertrumper” is anymore. Just use the word “patriot”.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  119. Trump waived privilege on the tape.

    Maybe we hear more. This is clearly a planned strategy leading into October. The GOP will spin this endlessly so even if Trump stays silent, he will have benefited from whatever defense emerges about the recording. Then maybe we hear more.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  120. http://www.mychinews.com/politcs/how-u-s-meddled-in-russian-elections-in-the-90s

    More straw men, Trump said the US was partially responsible for poor relations, why are YOU limiting it to Putin? We destroyed their economy, they might not be bitter about that?

    ““Russia has motive, which is everything we’ve done to that country since the late 1980s,” said Mark Ames, a fellow journalist in Russia at the time who founded a satirical newspaper called The Exile in 1998. “Meddling in their democracy is putting it very mildly. We basically restructured their entire political economy, and then left it in a complete shambles. And then we’ve meddled in other ways since then, funding opposition groups and so on and so forth, so they certainly have the motive.”

    Ames told the Real News Network that the Democrats have found a scapegoat.

    “Obama, and the Democrats, and the centrist Republicans who are pushing this story also have motive, which is to indemnify themselves from the fact that they have been completely rejected by the public,” Ames said. “They lost the elections, and they have the means, which is friends in the CIA and all these intelligence agencies, to create these reports, as we’re seeing. It’s a really dark joke – the whole thing so far.”

    It was common knowledge in Russia that the election of Yelstin was fraudulent, yet the international community whitewashed it. Yeltsin had a 3% approval rating at the time of his election, plus he had suffered a heart attack during the campaign and wasn’t even seen in public for most of the time.”

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  121. 121 Dustin you have devolved from Trump is guilty of campaign finance violations to now he is guilty of conspiracy to commit campaign finance violations? There was never any payment, you can’t invent laws and hold him accountable to them. As much as you would like governing while Trump is not illegal.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  122. 115. Nate Ogden (223c65) — 7/25/2018 @ 11:53 am

    It is a matter of common sense that Hillary mismanaged classified info,

    Not intentionally, as far what she didn’t delete, and not more than many other people. She was using her email in place of the unclassified system.

    She brought the investigation onto herself by asking for all her non-deleted emails to be released.
    This caused an examination of all her surviving emails.

    What I am concerned about is that she deliberately leaked info to some nefarious people. In several ways, probably mostly in person or by telephone.

    IRS targeted conservatives,

    Newly organized conservatives groups hoping for non-profit status.

    Ted Kennedy killed that girl,

    Possibly as a result of driving while intoxicated, which could have caused him to make a wrong turn and then continue along that road a long time without realizing he was not going the right way, until he finally drove straight off that wooden bridge, (which bent in the middle.)

    But that could not fairly be described as killing her.

    Obama sold guns to drug cartels,

    More accurately, the BATF did as a result of some kind of deal with informants, whom they let buy guns and take them into Mexico, and a similar thing had happened under Bush, only this time it was worse. That was really what can be described as the Deep State not Obama, but they were protected by some people in DOJ.

    and OJ is a murder,

    Yes, and some other people talked him into the murder, and maybe even helped him..

    Especially Robert Kardashian. (Later, somebody made sure to reward his family.)

    The National Enquirer protected the co-conspirators. Till the day of the criminal verdict they ran story after story as to how OJ did not do it. And starting right after they ran story after stiry as to how OJ did it, acting completely alone

    yet all got off?

    Later some people, probably the same people, conspired to get OJ locked up for about ten years.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  123. There are no FEC campaign law violations.

    Colonel Haiku (207293)

  124. We destroyed their economy, they might not be bitter about that?

    HAHAHAHAHA

    *We* destroyed the economy of the former Soviet Union?

    HAHAHAHAHA

    Dude just stop it. Seriously.

    I always heard that it was the Germans who put Lenin in power, but I have a hunch you’re gonna try to blame that on the United States any moment now…

    Dave (445e97)

  125. 121. Dustin (ba94b2) — 7/25/2018 @ 12:00 pm

    This reminds me of the old Breitbart expose’s where they would release a bit, then wait for lies to explain it, then release a bit more exposing the lies, etc etc.

    I think in this case, it is the leaker who is lying, and the more that gets leaked the better Trump looks. It’s not getting worse for Trump. This thing, anyway.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  126. Maybe we hear more. This is clearly a planned strategy leading into October. The GOP will spin this endlessly so even if Trump stays silent, he will have benefited from whatever defense emerges about the recording. Then maybe we hear more.
    Dustin (ba94b2) — 7/25/2018 @ 12:02 pm

    Whose planned strategy? Lanny Davis released the tape to CNN. Or perhaps you think that Trump, Cohen and Davis are all in it together.

    Anon Y. Mous (acdecf)

  127. Its a reach, cironello, but then so is the redskin banning judge ruling on emoluments

    narciso (d1f714)

  128. Very interesting take, Sammy. I disagree that the more we’ve learned the better for Trump. Indeed he called this thing fake news so it seems inconvenient to him that it happened. But I suppose we will see.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  129. No more than mexico did when it allowed the granma to sail to cuba, depositing fidel there.

    Narciso (8139ac)

  130. Russia has good chocolate bar, good vodka too

    And Mr. nk has already discussed about the potato

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  131. 1) rewrote the Russian constitution to give the president dictatorial powers,
    2) raised Putin out of obscurity to be his right-hand man, and then
    3) appointed him to the job he currently holds?

    And, oh by the way, got immunity from prosecution for himself and his fellows as a result. Most of them kept their loot, too.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  132. So now, releasing a recording, that was legally made, and agreed by both parties is not privileged, is somehow “leaking” it.

    So its leaking if its bad, its transparency if its good. Rudy said it was good, it exonerates Trump, Rudy is great, so therefore it is transparency on behalf of the Trump team.

    Colonel Klink (a70338)

  133. 119. Nate Ogden (223c65) — 7/25/2018 @ 11:57 am

    Cohen might have broke campaign finance laws but I have yet to see any evidence Trump or his campaign were involved.

    Clearly Cohen wanted these payments to be made, and he wanted it more than Trump did.

    Trump had a lot of other accusations by women. The only way any of this was more serious is that it took place after his marriage to Melania in 2005.

    I have the feeling it was the people at Lake Tahoe who set up Trump with these two women who wanted to be protected. Real detals as to how all this started have not come out. Trump may still be denying the relationship with these two women.

    (One was a one night stand that the woman in question did maybe because she’d been inveigled into being in the same room with him and had heard so much about Donald Trump but which she refused to repeat unless he got her on Celebrity Apprentice which eh sort of like kept hinting he might do) and the other a ten month long affair where he somehow at first thought Karen McDougal was a prostitute. I wonder how he got that idea into his head??

    I mean maybe somebody told one lie to Donald Trump and another lie to Karen McDougal.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  134. When it comes to lying, Trump is not in first class. People don’t believe Trump.

    We’ve got one now about Judge Brett Kavanaugh – that he said the Nixon tapes case was wrongly decided.

    It’s more like he said that was something that could be reasonably argued. But his overall position is he has no interest in that.

    Wall Street Journal column July 23: (also the subject of an editorial)

    https://www.nationalreview.com/bench-memos/does-brett-kavanaugh-want-to-overrule-united-states-v-nixon-not-so-fast/

    To support his claim, Schumer points to a 1999 roundtable discussion that included Kavanaugh as a participant. A transcript of the discussion appears in a 1999 issue of Washington Lawyer magazine, a copy of which Kavanaugh produced to the Senate Judiciary Committee with his Senate questionnaire last Friday….

    … Now, let’s turn to Kavanaugh’s remarks during the 1999 roundtable discussion. Unlike Schumer though, I’ll look at what Kavanaugh said in the context in which they were said.

    The roundtable was an informal discussion focused on the topic of attorney-client privilege that included members of President Clinton’s legal defense team, Kavanaugh, and a panel moderator. During the discussion, both Kavanaugh and the moderator noted that the privilege arguments that had been made by President Clinton’s defense team were similar to President Nixon’s unsuccessful arguments in Nixon. Kavanaugh reiterated that the rule that prevented the Clinton’s defense from asserting executive privilege “stems directly from Nixon.” Judge Kavanaugh then pointed out that a Clinton lawyer on the panel had “not argued that Nixon was wrongly decided.” Kavanaugh continued: “But maybe Nixon was wrongly decided, heresy though it is to say.”

    Read in context, Judge Kavanaugh’s reference to Nixon as “maybe” being “wrongly decided” is most easily understood as an argument that the position that the Clinton legal team had taken could prevail only if one assumed that the Nixon case was wrongly decided—an argument that Clinton’s team had not made.

    To reinforce this point, Kavanaugh later on in the discussion said, “I’m curious to know what people who are upset about the recent privilege rulings think about the Supreme Court’s ruling in Nixon. Should United States v. Nixon be overruled on the ground that the case was a nonjusticiable intrabranch dispute? Maybe so.”

    Was Kavanaugh suggesting here that Nixon should be overruled? Not at all. Kavanaugh’s rhetorical question (and answer) instead served to advance his argument that the Clinton legal team’s position on the privilege question was in conflict with Nixon, and could succeed only if Nixon were to be overturned. Rather than questioning the holding in Nixon, Kavanaugh was challenging his opponents on the panel to reconcile their legal position in the Clinton investigation with Nixon.

    Carrie Severino also cites instances where Kavanaugh specifically said U.S. v Nixon was a good case, and even a great moment in judicial history.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  135. You can bet that Brett Kavanaugh will testify to the same.

    Bottom line: don’t give him a pass on this. His promise on judicial appointments was just another shameless and irresponsible Trump lie. Gorsuch’s testimony (under penalty of perjury) proves it.

    I view leaving Roe be as a plus. Far more concerned about not having all guns confiscated, as Hillary’s 6-3 court would OK (“Only the National Guard, while serving….”). I’m far more concerned about freedom of political speech (campaign finance laws, anti-blogging rules, “hate” speech, etc). I’m far more concerned about equality of opportunity than I am about equality of result.

    All of those would be gone with a Democrat Court. Just listen to them.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  136. Baloney. The US involvement was laughably low-key, and consisted of verbal encouragement.

    Dave, you see the CIA under all the wrong beds.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  137. J. Christian Adams… “Some of the worst monsters of the 20th Century practiced civility, were extraordinarily courteous, and were well-respected by all the important people.

    It seems Americans would rather have someone who will defend the Constitution over the courteous fellow who lacks a fighting spirit. This preference for a fighter goes a long way in explaining why Donald Trump is the president and why candidates like Brian Kemp cruised to victory in Georgia’s gubernatorial primary last night.

    It might also explain why Never-Trumpers like Max Boot have become so unraveled.

    Boot’s latest folly is to team up with the most militant nuts of the institutional Left — Rob Reiner and Obama’s Director of National Intelligence James Clapper — to launch a seedy get-Trump effort called “Investigate Russia.”

    Think about that. Someone who climbed through the ranks claiming to be a conservative has now teamed up with Rob Reiner to hound a Republican president. Meathead and Max, together chasing Vladimir.

    “Investigate Russia” is a one-stop shop for Trump-hatred:

    All relevant information is aggregated in one place to provide context and allow users to see the full picture of what Russia has done and will continue to do unless we start paying closer attention. For generations, people have fought to protect democracy. Now it is our turn.

    Now it’s “their turn.” Useful idiots can be quite useful, especially conservative useful idiots.

    Oh, but Boot “didn’t leave conservatism, conservatives left conservatism,” Never-Trumpers like Boot will howl. Boot’s forthcoming — and likely barely read — book sanctimoniously pushes this narrative of conservative betrayal. People who disagree with Boot are “bottom feeders”; those in Boot’s camp are of course thoughtful and measured. Boot reflexively rolls out William F. Buckley to vouch for himself: it’s William F. Buckley who would be outraged! It’s William F. Buckley who would say Boot’s pathologies aren’t pathologies! It’s the Gospel according to Buckley, according to Boot, that makes Boot’s obsession about Donald Trump okay. From beyond the grave, Buckley says so.

    Really? Let’s check that premise…”

    https://pjmedia.com/jchristianadams/hollywood-left-and-never-trumpers-unite-to-hound-president/

    Colonel Haiku (207293)

  138. The Big Dispute between Lanny Davis and Rudy Giuliani appears to be who was proposing that the sleazy payment be made in cash, with Davis saying Trump proposed that and Giuliani saying Cohen did. I can’t tell — and I can’t figure out why I am supposed to care

    If it was Cohen, acting on behalf of the National Enquirer, it was an independent expenditure; if it was Trump, then, if the payment had actually been made or at least promised beforehand, which it wasn’t (the case rests on the idea that maybe there were unrecorded conversations where that could have happened) then it is a possible illegal corporate in kind campaign contribution, that in any case is way over the limit for individuals.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  139. Newly organized conservatives groups hoping for non-profit status.

    The same IRA, at the same time, approved all the local ACORN spin-offs after the national organization was caught crossing the political line (not to mention falsifying voter registrations).

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  140. Oh, and if you want to watch an American president actually stand up to a Russian leader in a press conference, just watch the Kitchen Debate.

    It’s a pretty stark contrast between an man, and a lapdog, you may be able to tell the difference.

    Nah, come on, who am I kidding, Trump is the mostest bestest smartest toughest president in foreverer.

    Hillary might be a complete bitch on wheels, but she’s got bigger balls. Just look at his teeny tiny hands, Mr. Babyhands.

    Colonel Klink (7ca54f)

  141. *IRS. All these criminal groups sound the same at times.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  142. The Irish Republican Army, or just Sinn Feign, although I’m not really sure how The Trouble’s are involved?

    Colonel Klink (7ca54f)

  143. Who do you fear more?

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  144. Remember another thing: Michael Cohen had to use his own money to pay off Stormy Daniels. This in itself is strong circumstantial evidence that Donald Trump did not know about that payment in advance.

    The mystery is: Why was Cohen so anxious to pay off and silence these two women? Was there someone else involved whom, he hoped to do business with?

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  145. @142 Kevin M

    The same IRS, at the same time, approved all the local ACORN spin-offs

    No they didn’t:

    https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/05/audit-irs-scrutiny-liberal-non-profits-243497

    “While the audit released Thursday by the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration doesn’t discuss the political leanings of the additional groups it identified, the criteria used by the IRS to flag groups based on their names or policy positions included left-leaning organizations and causes like “ACORN Successors,” “Green Energy,” “Medical Marijuana,” and “Progressive.””

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  146. Not all of the progressive groups were approved by the IRS, there were a few exceptions, the decision to not give 100% approval was most likely made to give them something to point to.

    Colonel Haiku (207293)

  147. @140. =Haikhrushchev= Brezhnevheit!

    Vladimir, Vladimir, on the Kremlin Wall; who’s the Reddest Colonel of all?!

    Still Helstinki. Honor America: shower.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  148. To summarize my thoughts:

    * Trump is a sleaze bag.
    * The American people knew that and voted him in anyway.
    * In a prior era (FDR, JFK) this would have been covered up by the press.
    * Somewhat later than that (Clinton) it would have been excused as “just about sex.”

    Bottom line: This is another sign of moral decline, but one which started long before Trump. So I don’t care much.

    Bored Lawyer (998177)

  149. 145… Sinn Féin, oh moron of many IPs…

    Colonel Haiku (207293)

  150. Watching Comrade Pompeo’s presidential ambitions evaporate on live TeeVee ketting bitcvh-slapped trying to gaslight his way explaining knowledge of a meeting only Putin, Traitor Trump, two translators and the KGB audiovisual department know about is pure joy.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  151. Bored Lawyer, no question JFK was similar to Trump in this one respect. No idea about FDR and never really considered that.

    I’m not sure it’s a sign of moral decline that we are critical of it now. Obama and Dubya were family men and good moral examples of honoring your wife even if you’re a powerful person.

    But your ultimate point, that the sex scandal stuff is not that important, is a reasonable point of view. I think there’s something more here, though, because of Russia’s push to try to get Trump the presidency. I think that’s related to the scandal because of Putin’s leverage over Trump. I think at some point we’ll learn what Putin has on Trump and this whole mess will click together. But even before it does, we know Trump is blackmailable, we know he’s lying, we know he’s owned by Putin. We know enough.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  152. 151 Thinking of many Trump supporters I know, none support this behavior, they support what he was promising to do.

    Nothing Trump has accomplished couldn’t have been done by a more moral or honest Republican, but in 24+ years none have done it, in fact they usually have at best paid lip service then done the exact opposite. If there was another Republican option that I believed would have done what Trump has done I would have gladly voted for them instead, that option was never available. I’m not going to sacrifice what Trump has done and is trying to do for some faux moral authority.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  153. Dustin

    FDR had an affair which was kept quiet. He was not the womanizer that JFK was and Trump is, but then again he was in a wheel chair (also mostly hidden).

    On the blackmail, what exactly is Putin going to blackmail him with? He had affairs? Frequented prostitutes? Paid them off? Seems like thin gruel as a basis for blackmail for Donald Trump.

    As I said, the American people knew he was a scum bag and elected him anyway. These are just details.

    And as for Obama and Bush, yes they were family men, but not good presidents. One was a closet Marxist, the other a nice guy but inept. Maybe greatness and being a good family man are not correlated. (I can think of examples both ways.)

    Bored Lawyer (998177)

  154. Dustin, how do you know Obama was a family man and honored his wife? You know what the media allowed you to know and there is no shortage of examples of them covering up for Obama and burying stories that would have damaged him.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  155. plus John McCain’s been a vicious, rabid misogynist his whole life

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  156. Oh, and if you want to watch an American president actually stand up to a Russian leader in a press conference, just watch the Kitchen Debate.

    Nixon was only the vice president at the time too…

    I also don’t recall Reagan (or Kennedy, for that matter) putting any part of the blame for the Wall on us when they spoke for America and the rest of the free world in Berlin…

    Dave (1c6dec)

  157. “Or perhaps you think that Trump, Cohen and Davis are all in it together.”

    Now that would be some good Prime Time TV, you need to write that up for an HBO mini series before reality hits the Liberals.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  158. “I also don’t recall Reagan (or Kennedy, for that matter) putting any part of the blame for the Wall on us when they spoke for America and the rest of the free world in Berlin…”

    Should we have split Germany? Looking back in History weren’t we in fact partially responsible? Granted the thought of another war at that time was horrible, but so is what followed the next 40 years.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  159. “Should Michael Cohen be disbarred for taping a client’s privileged conversation, then releasing it to the media?

    Should Lanny Davis be disbarred for releasing a tape of a privileged conversation to the media?”

    – Kevin M

    Good questions.

    The NM Rules of Professional Conduct provide that “A lawyer may reveal information relating to the representation of a client to the extent the lawyer reasonably believes necessary:… 5) to establish a claim or defense on behalf of the lawyer in a controversy between the lawyer and the client, to establish a defense to a criminal charge or civil claim against the lawyer based upon conduct in which the client was involved, or to respond to allegations in any proceeding concerning the lawyer’s representation of the client.”

    So: taping is probably not much of a problem, in a one-party consent state. However, it’s difficult to believe that any d-board would buy that releasing the tape to the media was “reasonably believed to be necessary (by Cohen) … to establish a defense or respond to allegations in any proceeding.” The difficulty would be in showing that Cohen actually released the tape to the media.

    Davis is probably fine.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  160. I’ve heard President Hassan Rouhani is quite a family man!

    Colonel Haiku (207293)

  161. 127 Dave, if you wish to grow up and have a debate you can look up on Google and see it’s a commonly held belief in Russia. The discussion is why we have animous with Russia and bad relations, them feeling, rightly or wrongly, that we sabotage their economy is part of that.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-American_sentiment_in_Russia#US_as_global_social_and_economic_parasite
    Read the section on US as global social and economic parasite

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_history_of_the_Russian_Federation
    “Since collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, Russia has tried to develop a market economy and achieve consistent economic growth. In October 1991, Yeltsin announced that Russia would proceed with radical, market-oriented reform along the lines of “shock therapy”, as recommended by the United States and IMF.[1] Hyperinflation resulted from the removal of Soviet price controls and again following the 1998 Russian financial crisis. Assuming the role as the continuing legal personality of the Soviet Union, Russia took up the responsibility for settling the USSR’s external debts, even though its population made up just half of the population of the USSR at the time of its dissolution.[2]”

    “An important symptom of Russian macroeconomic instability has been severe fluctuations in the exchange rate of the ruble. From July 1992, when the ruble first could be legally exchanged for United States dollars, to October 1995, the rate of exchange between the ruble and the dollar declined from 144 rubles per US$1 to around 5,000 per US$1. Prior to July 1992, the ruble’s rate was set artificially at a highly overvalued level. But rapid changes in the nominal rate (the rate that does not account for inflation) reflected the overall macroeconomic instability. The most drastic example of such fluctuation was the Black Tuesday (1994) 27% reduction in the ruble’s value.”

    If you prefer to keep the debate on your level. hahaha I know you are but what am I.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  162. Cheating on your wife to own the libs!

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  163. Nate Ogden (223c65) — 7/25/2018 @ 1:13 pm

    Unbelievable.

    So tell us, is it only the leader of Russia that our president should abase himself before?

    What about, say, Iran? Cuba? Venezuela? Palestine?

    Are the misdeeds of the leaders of those places just understandable reactions to our own crimes and aggressions?

    Dave (1c6dec)

  164. Populists now in control of republican party don’t care and never trumpers run out of the republican party no longer count. All this is is kidde porn for dems and neo-con artists. Media is less popular then trump.

    wendell (4b31f4)

  165. “Compared to the GOP collusion with the Soviets, it seems pretty minor…”

    When did Rachel Madcow start commenting here?

    Colonel Haiku (207293)

  166. Dustin

    FDR had an affair which was kept quiet. He was not the womanizer that JFK was and Trump is, but then again he was in a wheel chair (also mostly hidden).

    On the blackmail, what exactly is Putin going to blackmail him with? He had affairs? Frequented prostitutes? Paid them off? Seems like thin gruel as a basis for blackmail for Donald Trump.

    As I said, the American people knew he was a scum bag and elected him anyway. These are just details.

    And as for Obama and Bush, yes they were family men, but not good presidents. One was a closet Marxist, the other a nice guy but inept. Maybe greatness and being a good family man are not correlated. (I can think of examples both ways.)

    Bored Lawyer (998177) — 7/25/2018 @ 1:01 pm

    Didn’t know that about FDR.

    Greatness and loving family are indeed highly correlated, and both Obama and Dubya are much better men than Trump. I don’t agree with Obama on politics, and I regret that he squandered a great chance to be a unifier. Much of our problems today stem for his style of harsh politics. But I do appreciate that he showed a great example of being a good father and husband.

    Dubya spent too much money but he was a good president in difficult times, faced with constant no win scenarios. I’d vote for him again over a lot of options.

    As for what Russia is blackmailing Trump with, we only know that Putin obviously has tremendous power over Trump. We know Trump is very easily blackmailed. We can pretend we don’t know these things and demand proof, but those facts remain. The defense that Trump is well known garbage and therefore there would be no point in trying to blackmail him doesn’t change the fact that Trump definitely pays people to stay silent all the time. And that Putin has tremendous power over Trump for some reason (cough cough).

    Nate Ogden, Obama was a great family example and the idea there is some sexual scandal until there’s proof there wasn’t is a little silly. That’s just argument theater. I wish all US Presidents treated their family as well.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  167. the criteria used by the IRS to flag groups

    Yeah, they got “flagged.” But for the most part they didn’t get the same cattle-prod reaming (“Submit the tax returns and financial records of your board of directors and a list of all your donors”) that the Teas got.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  168. Dustin,

    FDR died with his mistress present.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_Mercer_Rutherfurd

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  169. Dustin:

    That’s just argument theater.

    That’s a great phrase for a certain kind of internet communication. Do you mind if I borrow it?

    Appalled (96665e)

  170. Should Michael Cohen be disbarred for taping a client’s privileged conversation, then releasing it to the media?

    Should Lanny Davis be disbarred for releasing a tape of a privileged conversation to the media?

    HA, HA, HA! This is New York we’re talking about. Sleaze Central. Besides, what difference at this point would it make? Neither one is an attorney. Just errand boys with law licenses?

    nk (dbc370)

  171. Is there nothing about Trump that’s not sleazy? That is the real question.

    nk (dbc370)

  172. we only know that Putin obviously has tremendous power over Trump

    We know no such thing. Given how past presidents have behaved with Putin, and given Trump’s narcissism, I tend to think the explanation lies elsewhere.

    Bored Lawyer (998177)

  173. Dustin, as long as you don’t cheat on your spouse your a good family man? I disagree, there is plenty of abuse and neglect that would make one a bad father and husband.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  174. 158.plus John McCain’s been a vicious, rabid misogynist his whole life

    There’s always some tail to hook, eh, Mr. Feet?!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  175. Well fire and fury will be a 10 part miniseries, on hbo.

    Narciso (8442a3)

  176. 166 your opinion, I can’t answer for something that never happened.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  177. We know no such thing.

    Except we do, Comrade.

    There is evidence of election meddling by Russia and Putin stated he wanted Traitor Trump to win in Helsinki.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  178. My favorite part so far about President Trump is the policies after that I love how he exposes corruption in the government and the media and even further afield.

    He’s a transcendence and a quintessence (both) and he’s pancakes on Sunday morning too!

    I feel a praise song comin’ on!

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  179. Dave, if you wish to grow up and have a debate you can look up on Google and see it’s a commonly held belief in Russia. The discussion is why we have animous with Russia and bad relations, them feeling, rightly or wrongly, that we sabotage their economy is part of that.

    Nate, I realize facts are the merest ephemera in TrumpWorld, and subject to revision at the whim of the Dear Leader, but do you not understand that the “rightly or wrongly” part is extremely important in assessing whether, in fact, we bear responsibility?

    The Germans believed “rightly or wrongly” that Jews caused them to lose a war they (were told they) had won.

    The Palestinians believe “rightly or wrongly” that 100% of the land of Israel belongs to them.

    People believing something does not give it equal weight to the truth of the matter. In fact, it doesn’t give it any weight at all.

    In the case of the end of the Soviet Union, the facts are perfectly well-known.

    Gorbachev naively thought he could liberalize the Soviet economy (and political system) gradually and incrementally.

    Nate, do you know who was the first person in the history of the Soviet Union to resign from the Politburo? Boris Yeltsin. Gorbachev elevated Yeltsin to the Politburo because he was a supporter of reform, but Yeltsin decided within a couple years that Gorbachev was proceeding too slowly and half-heartedly. When Yeltsin resigned in impatience, Gorbachev called him “politically immature”.

    But Yeltsin was also stubborn, and he carved out a new political niche for himself in the government of the Russian Federation, which (thanks to Gorbachev’s political reforms) had become an independent political power structure.

    As everyone who lived through it remembers, the hard-liners who thought Gorbachev was going to *fast* tried to mount a Keystone Kops style coup, and when troops in Moscow refused to fire on the crowds (a decision criticized by Donald Trump), Yeltsin and his supporters defeated them.

    The communist party, and the Soviet Union, both disintegrated rapidly. As the last man standing in Russia, Yeltsin then took the opportunity to do what he had wanted to do all along, the so-called “shock therapy”. Your revisionist history needs to paint this as some nefarious scheme hatched by the West, but it was Yeltsin’s policy from Day One, even before he had power.

    During the time Yeltsin was in office, the Russian economy contracted by slightly more than the US economy in the Great Depression. And this understates the effect, because the economy had already contracted by 10-20% before Yeltsin took over.

    So yes, the Russian economy was trashed during the 1990’s, but look at what was going on:

    1) Collapse of the external Warsaw Pact quasi-empire, with its economic system organized for the benefit of the Russians.

    2) Collapse of the internal Soviet empire, with loss or disruption of many markets for manufactured goods and sources of raw materials. Resources that could be simply ordered from point A to point B under the Soviet command economy now had to be purchased on an international market with competition.

    3) Internal ethnic unrest inside Russia itself, leading to armed rebellion.

    4) Demobilization of much of the army they had built to take over the world.

    5) Total collapse of crude oil prices for the entire decade. In 1998, the inflation-adjusted price of crude oil fell to the lowest level since 1946(!). This was the one product Russia could profitably export to pay for imports, and it was practically worthless. (The recovery of the Russian economy under Putin likewise owes much to the massive rise – by a factor of seven or eight! – in oil prices over the subsequent decade).

    6) Yeltsin proved to be a capricious and unstable leader. Political and bureaucratic warfare with the communist revanchists was unceasing and sometimes spilled into the streets.

    7) And all this after 70+ years of the most disastrous economic experiment in the history of mankind.

    It’s hardly surprising that the Russians ran into some hard times.

    We and the rest of the world did plenty to help them. The claim that “we destroyed their economy” is an epic lie worthy of Donald Trump, and does not deserve to be taken seriously.

    Perhaps most tellingly, when Yeltsin resigned, he didn’t blame the West, even though it would have been politically expedient to do so. He didn’t even mention us at all. To his credit, he said (in part):

    Today, on this incredibly important day for me, I want to say more personal words than I usually do. I want to ask you for forgiveness, because many of our hopes have not come true, because what we thought would be easy turned out to be painfully difficult.

    I ask to forgive me for not fulfilling some hopes of those people who believed that we would be able to jump from the grey, stagnating, totalitarian past into a bright, rich and civilized future in one go.
    I myself believed in this. But it could not be done in one fell swoop. In some respects I was too naive. Some of the problems were too complex. We struggled on through mistakes and failures. At this complex time many people experienced upheavals in their lives. But I want you to know that I never said this would be easy.

    Today it is important for me to tell you the following. I also experienced the pain which each of you experienced. I experienced it in my heart, with sleepless nights, agonizing over what needed to be done to ensure that people lived more easily and better, if only a little. I did not have any objective more important than that.

    After you’ve dug a hole for over 70 years, it’s hard to climb out in less than 10. The Russians may well be better off today because Yeltsin had the courage to tear off the bandage, so the wound could finally start to heal.

    Dave (445e97)

  180. #22 AZ Bob
    Gohmert was never a fan of Trumps. He seemed to take Trumps over the top jabs at Cruz harder than Cruz did himself. Whatever Gohmerts faults, he is being a team player. That said, I’m sure Trumps personal flaws drive Louis crazy.

    #43 AZ Bob

    So are you saying I should be worried if Trump hires Criminal defense attorney?
    How about a Personal Injury lawyer if Trump takes a fall in the WH shower?

    Mueller is doing his best to make sure Cohen had the Criminal part of the title even if Cohen’s practice was more concierge than law

    steveg (a9dcab)

  181. When do we get to hear more about how Trumps valet is claiming he got screwed out of some overtime?

    steveg (a9dcab)

  182. Be patient, Steveg…

    Colonel Haiku (207293)

  183. The announced opening of Europe’s soybean market to American farmers follows years of agricultural protectionism by the EU. This was masked as a concern about GMO crops; virtually all American soybeans are genetically modified to make them tolerant of the herbicide glyphosate. Increased purchases of American natural gas will reduce Europe’s dependence on Russian gas, thereby dealing another blow to Vladimir Putin’s regime.

    President Trump keeps kicking Vladimir in the nuts and Vladimir’s all cut it out you big bully stop kicking me in the nuts it hurts

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  184. The announced opening…. What was announced? Nothing concrete was announced, they did announce that they were going to begin preparing to meet to discus the two trading partners working to eliminate tariffs on all non-auto industrial goods, increase cooperation on energy purchases and work together to reform the World Trade Organization.

    So it was an announcement that Trump won’t escalate, Europe will continue business as usual, and maybe farmers will get an additional market, possibly, in the future sometime.

    Colonel Klink (eda9ee)

  185. “People believing something does not give it equal weight to the truth of the matter. In fact, it doesn’t give it any weight at all.”

    So to be clear, your saying international relations is 100% factually based, no emotions, perceptions, or feelings involved? Just want to be sure I’m not mistaking what your saying.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  186. “One of the men on the call had a personal history consistent with what you might expect from a longtime Atlantic City casino owner… consorting with loose women was a main theme of the conversation. But for the folks who listened and had assumed that Donald Trump was a conventional Mid-Western evangelical, this must’ve been a total shock. But for everyone else, especially those who had read the New York Post for the last 35 years, it was not.”

    LOL.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  187. @188. Still haven’t gotten your check, eh. It’s in the mail.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  188. You may think that Trump is an idiot, but what can you say about the Democrats and their plastic straw bans? It’s worth a year in jail in Santa Barbara to offer a straw to a restaurant patron.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  189. We and the rest of the world did plenty to help them. The claim that “we destroyed their economy” is an epic lie worthy of Donald Trump, and does not deserve to be taken seriously.

    And here, we are in agreement. The US didn’t help much, but it also didn’t interfere much, once Yeltsin was installed (something we had more than a little bit to do with).

    If anything, Yeltsin’s time was an experiment in anarcho-capitalist governance, or as close as you are ever likely to see it. And it didn’t work. But it also didn’t matter — the destruction of the old order was so complete that going to as little law as possible while things sorted themselves out was probably a good move.

    They sorted out to Putin, however, when people wanted some predictability to their lives. We should be overjoyed they didn’t sort out to Stalin, like they did last time.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  190. No, it was a,scheme that would have Madoff blush in audacity, put the country up for grid but allow the fmr bureaucrats first dibz, they became the oligarchs

    Narciso (7c653c)

  191. Right you are, narciso.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  192. They – Clinton, Summers and that lot – took advantage of the situation to pillage and pilfer.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  193. One might most charitably compare Yeltsin to the hunger chancellor, heinrich bruening in the heart of the depression

    Narciso (7c653c)

  194. So to be clear, your saying international relations is 100% factually based, no emotions, perceptions, or feelings involved? Just want to be sure I’m not mistaking what your saying.

    You said “we destroyed their economy”.

    That is an assertion of fact whose truth does not depend on anyone’s feelings, emotions or perceptions.

    That it’s necessary to explain something so obvious shows how far into the Twilight Zone TrumpWorld has fallen.

    If someone punches me because they wrongly believe that I kicked their dog, when in truth I never did anything of the sort, does that make me equally responsible for our bad relationship?

    That is the argument you are making.

    Dave (445e97)

  195. While we’re all talking about penny ante personal betrayals, Mark Steyn (also known as ‘him who Max Boot thinks he was but never, ever reached that level) had some veeery interesting details on how AMERICA’S GREATEST ALLY abuses it’s own people

    https://www.steynonline.com/8675/tommy-this-an-tommy-that-an-tommy-go-away

    “To Mad Ash and his fellow ‘Asians’, the likes of Jessica and Katie are ‘white slags’. To Her Majesty’s Constabulary, they’re mere ‘Paki-shaggers’, and thus unworthy of valuable police resources. The girls recall the night Mad Ash’s brother Bannaras was in his car having sex with a twelve-year-old. A ‘jam sandwich’ – a police cruiser – pulled up alongside, and the officer rolled down the window. ‘She’s just sucking my c**k, mate,’ said Bannaras Hussain.

    The cops drove away…

    Jessica kept a detailed diary of what had happened to her. She took it to the cops. It ‘disappeared’. There was one kindly officer, but the others told him to back off, and, when he didn’t, he died in an accident. Katie puts the word ‘accident’ in air quotes. Rotherham is a land of coincidence. ‘Some of these things can happen, but not all of them, not in one town.’

    A couple of years after taking them her diary, Jessica went back to see the police. This time the detective told her none of the officers who’d witnessed her abuse would support her story because if they gave evidence at trial they’d wind up ‘getting in the s***’. She left the room having taken the precaution of covertly recording the conversation. And thus the cover-up began to unravel…”

    Fortunately, I am informed by our most reliable MI5 agents that Britain’s leaders are an absolute picture of faithfulness to their spouses and many have in fact never been seen giving offense or having sex with women.

    Steppe Nomad (2c3f6d)

  196. So is there the same reason why Cohen taped cuomos interview.

    Narciso (3918c0)

  197. I agree, Steppe Nomad. Trump should be driving a cab in Rotherham. That’s where he belongs, not in the White House.

    nk (dbc370)

  198. The Bill Clinton- lRussia story… https://fas.org/irp/congress/2000_rpt/russias-road.pdf

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  199. President Trump should open federal land for mining and lumber and of course oil. Oh Canada!!

    mg (9e54f8)

  200. cnn lol

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  201. STORM LAKE, Iowa – An Iowa man has been jailed after police said he chased several young children while making threats of kidnapping and cannibalism.

    King Kong Choul, 47, of Storm Lake, Iowa, was charged with first degree harassment.

    Police said the incident occurred about 9:45 p.m. July 11. Choul was located at an apartment building and arrested the following afternoon.

    According to a police report obtained by Newsweek, Choul approached the children near the apartment building where he chased them and hurled his threats.

    Witnesses said the man threatened to “cut them up into small pieces and eat them,” and informed the children that “he had a bag of salt and would put salt on them as seasoning after he cut them into pieces.”

    The report says Choul also approached a mother with her 1-year-old baby and told her he would kidnap the child. The mother told police that after being pursued by Choul, she ducked into an apartment to hide. She said that Choul would repeatedly look in the windows of the apartment and bang on them.

    Storm Lake police said that alcohol probably played a factor.

    Link

    Pinandpuller (d735d6)

  202. You may think that Trump is an idiot, but what can you say about the Democrats and their plastic straw bans? It’s worth a year in jail in Santa Barbara to offer a straw to a restaurant patron.

    Kevin M (5d3e49) — 7/25/2018 @ 6:27 pm

    Hell, the cops are going to start planting straws on black people.

    Pinandpuller (d735d6)

  203. A German serial killer who murdered five female hitchhikers accidentally killed himself while performing a strange solo sex act in his prison cell over the weekend, reports claim.

    Egidius Schiffer, dubbed the “Aachen Strangler,” gave himself a fatal electric shock after tying a cable from a lamp around his penis and nipples, police said.

    He was still tied up when guards at Bochum prison, in the North Rhine-Westphalia state, opened his room Monday morning, the Times reported.

    Prison spokeswoman Candida Tunkel said: “He removed a cable from his bedside table lamp. Then he wound it around his nipples and his penis and stuck the end in a power socket.”

    nypost

    Pinandpuller (d735d6)

  204. “I agree, Steppe Nomad. Trump should be driving a cab in Rotherham. That’s where he belongs, not in the White House.”

    No doubt that he could. He was famous for preferring advice from taxi drivers over collegians.

    Trump is, in fact, very much your punishment for disrespecting the opinions of cabmen and other eyes on the ground in favor of the degenerates in Harvard Yard, and he’ll continue to punish you as long as you hold that attitude.

    Steppe Nomad (2e699b)

  205. Russian meddling in 2016 election how? Wiki-leaks Facebook ad? Everyone new that hilary was a crook and the media was running interference for her. Did putin send in russian marines to block servicing voting machines so they couldn’t count 70.000 votes for clinton in detroit? America sent in the marines in 1965 in the dominican republic to “influence” their election. America trys to meddle in israel’s elections evert time they have one. In 1996 time magazine had cover on how america “influenced” the russian election in favor of boris yeltsen. We are meddling in central america’s election to this day.

    wendell (a4b3d6)

  206. 201 what was the discussion about when the weather destroyed their economy comment was made? You never Trumper twits have excelled at twisting and misrepresenting conversation and fact.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  207. No doubt that he could. He was famous for preferring advice from taxi drivers over collegians.

    Again we agree. Taxi drivers are the guys you ask, “Hey, buddy, do you know where a guy can get laid around here?”, not Harvard collegians. A Harvard collegian would look down his nose and say “One doesn’t”.

    nk (dbc370)

  208. Joke:

    A well-bred New England lady disembarks from her plane in a city well known for its fish.
    She gets in a cab and asks the driver, “Take me where I can get scrod!”

    The cab driver turns around and says, “Lady, I ain’t never heard that in the past pluperfect before.”

    Ingot9455 (3eee4f)

  209. The lead figure, is the partner firm with fusion gps Julius baer was assuange first big Wikileaks exploit:
    https://babalublog.com/2018/07/26/u-s-indictments-and-arrests-in-billion-dollar-money-laundering-operation-by-venezuelas-dictatorship/

    narciso (d1f714)

  210. If you dial down the ambient noise

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Debradelai/status/928889509588152320?p=v

    narciso (d1f714)

  211. Good advice from a left wing neverTrumper to all of you neverTrumpers out there:

    “If you’re like me, the last three years of the Trump Era have been enraging and, at times, debilitating. This crisis is massive and its consequences far-reaching. We have to fight it, but we’re not going to make it if we don’t take care of ourselves.”

    Never mind that this guy (college professor) can’t do math since the “Trump era” has so far been less than two years.

    This was from a tweet sent out, and some rude trumphumper replied something to the point like Hey whiny boy, cowboy up you’re not in a POW camp
    Good advice. Too bad it’s like shouting good advice at a dumpster fire

    steveg (a9dcab)

  212. That would be Jared Yale sexton, who had a conniption when
    Don Jr revealed his big scoop.

    narciso (d1f714)

  213. If you’re like me, the last three years of the Trump Era have been enraging and, at times, debilitating.

    “Debilitating, I tell you, debilitating!!!1!”

    Snorfle. No, buddy, we’re not like you.

    nk (dbc370)

  214. And yes, I did compare nevertrumpin to a dumpster fire.

    Trump himself can be a dumpster fire too, but his fire is spectacular, his dumpster is filled with fireworks and I find it entertaining.

    The nevertrumpin dumpster fire stinks due to the smell of burning smug elitism and false piety.

    People forgive sinners like Trump and Clinton, Charlie Wilson way faster than they forgive sinners like Pharisees, and Sadducees

    steveg (a9dcab)

  215. Too much is made of this, sometimes he’s unneccesarily blunt, sometimes cloyingly ingratiating, but they can’t make up their mind which approach annoys them more.

    narciso (d1f714)

  216. Yes, yes, NeverTrumping is a dumpster fire, but the garbage in the dumpster is Trump.

    nk (dbc370)

  217. Paul Ryan is the dumpsters dumpster. What a useless pos. Trump and Americans are winning.

    mg (9e54f8)

  218. Trump is kicking azz with soybeans and gas.

    mg (9e54f8)

  219. Paul Ryan is perverted Mitt Romney’s favorite under-aged sex toy

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  220. America will rise above all democrats as they get flushed in the leach field.

    mg (9e54f8)

  221. Dear God,
    Please let mittens continue his lifelong losing streak.

    mg (9e54f8)

  222. Trump’s “gas” is the same kind that killed Capone.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  223. Trumps gas is premium.

    mg (9e54f8)

  224. They do know who her brother is right?

    narciso (d1f714)

  225. i’d forgotten that corrupt DOJ lickspittle Rod Rosytwat was pure-blood harvardtrash

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  226. The King is a Fink!
    And the peasants are revolting!
    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ny-pol-betsy-devos-yacht-vandalized-adrift-20180726-story.html

    Tillman (d34303) — 7/26/2018 @ 8:51 am

    Remember, the real elites are college professors and not people like DeVos.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  227. That’s correct Davethehulhu, they don’t need no educated people. They’re enemies.

    Tillman (d34303)

  228. #230

    Trump’s “gas” is the same kind that killed Capone.

    Are you saying Trump has VD? That’s what got Capone — not the hot seat or the gas chamber.

    Appalled (96665e)

  229. This is on the level of taking the parking brake off the bulldozer and pushing it into traffic to own the cons.

    Steppe Nomad (ffab3f)

  230. Give that man a prize! Given the Bushes randiness, I’m about to go “DCSCA” and mention that the Hall of Modern Presidents’ is starting to look like the free clinic in the 1975 very special episode of Good Times when JJ has to go to the clinic and is seated next to a young Jay Leno and:

    Leno in character: so why are you here?
    JJ: uh, I have a cold?
    Leno: that’s funny, everyone else is here for VD (camera pans to a crowded full of young adults free clinic).

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  231. 232, yeah that’s dumb and I know people from “Heur-in” as it is pronounced. Last town east before crossing the Mexican / Puerto Rican line of Barrio demarcation (Toledo is Mex, Lorain is Rican).

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  232. No blackwaters Eric prince, the unnamed villain on taken and quantico

    narciso (d1f714)

  233. I did know that (Eric Prince), your the wording of your response suggests that I did not. Perhaps I should have held off on the anecdotal tangent.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  234. Has setting up the department of educational defense,,as we speak (class of 1999) but it bears notice who are the violent ones.

    narciso (d1f714)

  235. 186. Dave (445e97) — 7/25/2018 @ 3:22 pm

    Nate, do you know who was the first person in the history of the Soviet Union to resign from the Politburo? Boris Yeltsin. Gorbachev elevated Yeltsin to the Politburo because he was a supporter of reform, but Yeltsin decided within a couple years that Gorbachev was proceeding too slowly and half-heartedly. When Yeltsin resigned in impatience, Gorbachev called him “politically immature”.

    I had no idea that yeltsin was actually on the Politburo and voluntarily resigned. Perhaps I vaguely remmber that he resiogned from the Coimmunist party. Wikipedia says he was a candidate (non-voting) member of the Politbur and resiogned in 1987.

    But Yeltsin was also stubborn, and he carved out a new political niche for himself in the government of the Russian Federation, which (thanks to Gorbachev’s political reforms) had become an independent political power structure.

    As everyone who lived through it remembers, the hard-liners who thought Gorbachev was going to *fast* tried to mount a Keystone Kops style coup,

    The coup leaders did not realize that Russia – the government of Russia itself – had become an independent political power anmnbd so did not arrest him.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  236. I don’t think Giuliani is too competent. But I don’t think the only good arguments that could be made are ones made by a person’s lawyers. And we should not be limited to that.

    Trump’s lawyers produced a transcript – Giulani claims they played it over and over again. He says they played it slowly.

    PLAYING THINGS SLOWLY A MAKES IT HARDER TO UNDERSTAND!

    This is enough to lose all confidence in Giulinia.

    They claim that Trump said “don’t pay with cash.”

    This gets it all wrong. That’s not the issue,

    I heard asnipet on the CBS Evening news and that part, or that version, was clear.

    Trump said “pay with cash”

    But he was trying to understand Michael Cohen. He volunteered that paraphrase just like he suggested that “David” getting hit by a car was a way the National Enquirer might change its policy. He was giving Cohen a simpler way of sayingh what he was saying

    (By the way, Mr. Arbuthnot, the Cliché Expert, might point out, it’s getting hit by a bus, not a car. Even maybe the M42 bus which runs on 42nd St in New York at 3 1/2 miles per hour. But that’s factoring in red lights and waiting. Of course, that’s neither here nor there.)

    Qhwn Trump said “pay with cash” Trump and Cohen were discussing financing. When he says “pay with cash”, which is almost a question, he was almost certainly talking in real estate terms, in which “cash” means pay without borrowing. That’s what “cash” means in business terms. Not 420 or $100 bills, regardless of what kind of crazy things Lannny Davis may be spinning.

    The New York Times says the world “check” was used by somebody later but they don’t know who or whhw it fit into a sentence.

    The conversation actually concerned at least three topics.

    First, about which black minister to use. One had said something impolitic.

    Second, the New York Times lawsuit to get Donald Trump’s divorce papers from Ivana (by the way, his first wife is Ivana – his daughter is also Ivana, but called Ivanka)

    Trump said they would never get the papers and indeed Trump prevailed.

    Here you have somethinbg involving attorney-client privilege – except that maybe Cohen wasn’t handling that.

    Third was this idea of buying out the National Enquirer.

    The National Enquirer itself claims now that teh reason they never published Karen McDougal’s story was`because, they say ,she was not credible, and produced some contemporary internal document that said that. Now that may not be the reason at all but maybe they just know how to protect themselves.

    The New York Times says Giuliani could not explain how the recording was exculpatory.

    That only means Giuliani should not be the spokesman. It’s fairly obvious. It means the payment had gone ahead before Donald Trump agreed (although you can say possibly he did know) and so could not be an in kind corporate campaign donation. It also shows they were concerned the story might come out way past the election. Which means the purpose of Trump buying out the National Enquirer (which he never did) had little or nothing to do with the 2016 election (can’t say the same about a future election)

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  237. Claim in the New Yoker aboiut possible problems for trump with the tape:

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/the-really-bad-news-for-donald-trump-on-the-michael-cohen-tape

    But what counts is if Trump was part of this – not Allen Weisselberg, the longtime chief financial officer of the Trump Organization. This wss still something that had not been brought to trump before.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  238. Circular reasoning is what passes for an educated guess? Trump is dishonest so therefore Trump was being dishonest.

    Trump waived privilege on the tape.

    The first part of your comment makes no sense.

    As for the second, prove that he waived privilege on the part that was cut off.

    Patterico (6c68d1)

  239. “And the peasants are revolting”

    Yes, they are. I mean to say, have you seen these Occupy leftwingers? When they aren’t defecating on police cars or sidewalks, they are schiffing their own pants

    Colonel Haiku (207293)

  240. An article that says Trump waived privilege in 12 tapes does not prove the point. You don’t know what the special master recommended, what was turned over, and what was withheld. You just don’t know.

    Patterico (6c68d1)

  241. I know that President Trump was bestowed upon us by God in his Heaven as part of His Plan for us

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  242. I suspect you’d fit right in, Cthulhu.

    Colonel Haiku (207293)

  243. Apropos of nothing that trek episode where Charles Napier, plays a hippy is a,hoot

    Narciso (e0402c)

  244. The released tape was far from master copy and ends abruptly after the word “check.”

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  245. The tape goes:

    Cohen: Correct. So i;m all over that and I spoke to Allen about it.

    When it comes time for the financing, which will be…

    Trump: (interrupting) Listen. What financing? [Stephen Colbert’s transcript https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycWPnmUQ7cU – I haven’t yet found a complere recording] has Trump saying “wait a sec” instead of “listen” but the sound byte is clearly “listen”

    Cohen: We’ll have to…pay him something.

    Trump: Pay with cash

    Cohen: No, no. No, no, no, no no. I got this—

    Cohen: No, no, no.

    Trump: (something) Check

    Financing means where you get the money.

    When someone talks about arrranging financing, it generally means borrowing. Trump says to pay with cash – you don’t need any financing. Just pay with cash, meaning cash the way the federal reserve board defines cash (including the content os checking accounts) That’s what it means.

    Cohen then is about to descrobe how he’s got this all worked out (Trump had earlier asked him to give him (the papers so he could look at it)

    Then Trump says somethinbg with the word check – and the tape is deliberately muddied around there, and terminate. It did not terminate there on the originalrecording.

    The whole idea is to raise some kind of a claim about cash like drug dealers, and a claim even that trump wanted that. But cash, in real estate terms =just means without borrowing.

    The tape is cut off becasue what follows would spoil the interpretation that Lanny Davis is trying to give it.

    It’s all very stupid anyway, because this business of cas vs check doesn’t really mean anything except that as Giuliani said this a (proposed) tranaction between two corporations and that’s nto done with $100 bills. This idea is to make it loook more sleazy and possibly illegal.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  246. Coreection to 144:

    just like he suggested that “David” getting hit by a car was a way the National Enquirer might change its policy.

    Trump said hit by a TRUCK not a CAR.

    But he should have said BUS.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)


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