Patterico's Pontifications

2/1/2018

Democrats Refuse To Protect Babies From Late-Term Abortions

Filed under: General — Dana @ 8:55 am



[guest post by Dana]

Senate Democrats blocked a bill that would would have protected babies from being aborted after 20 weeks. This in spite of the fact that two-thirds of Americans support a 20-week abortion ban.

Rather than protect the most vulnerable among us, Democrats gave a thumbs-up to the violent dismemberment of a viable baby in the womb – all the way up until birth:

Senate Democrats today blocked a vote on a pro-life Senate bill to ban late-term abortions — a bill that would save as many as 18,000 unborn babies form abortions each and every year.

The Senate voted today on whether to stop the Democrats’ filibuster of the Pain Capable Unborn Child Protection Act, legislation that would ban abortions after 20 weeks — as neither Congress nor state legislatures can vote to ban all abortions under Roe v. Wade. The bill highlights how unborn babies feel intense pain when they are killed in abortions. Fifty-one senators (forty-eight Republicans and three Democrats) voted to take the bill up for debate, but 60 votes were required.

Unfortunately, because Republicans don’t have 60 votes in the chamber to overcome the filibuster, Democrats successfully stopped the bill. The vote came after the White House indicated President Donald Trump would sign the bill into law.

At a hearing before Congress, gruesome testimony was given by former abortionist Dr. Anthony Levatino, who himself has performed more than 1200 abortions, including “over 100 late term abortions up to 24 weeks”. Yet, still, Democrats were not moved:

Dr. Levatino described what the abortionist actually does to the helpless child. “Imagine if you can that you are a pro-choice obstetrician/gynecologist like I was.” Using a Sopher 13” clamp with rows of ridges or teeth, “grasp anything you can” inside the womb. “Once you’ve grasped something inside, squeeze on the clamp to set the jaws and pull hard—really hard. You feel something let go and out pops a fully formed leg about six inches long. Reach in again and grasp anything you can…and out pops an arm.” He noted that “a second trimester D&E abortion is a blind procedure.” He said, “Reach in again and again with that clamp and tear out the spine, intestines, heart and lungs.

According to experts, not only can babies feel pain while in the womb, they can feel it as early as eight weeks:

Maureen Condic, Ph.D. is an Associate Professor of Neurobiology and Anatomy at the University of Utah and obtained her Ph.D. from University of California, Berkeley. She is a widely published scientist whose works have appeared in a wide variety of peer-reviewed journals.

“The earliest “rudiment” of the human nervous system forms by 28 days (four weeks) after sperm – egg fusion. At this stage, the primitive brain is already “patterned”; i.e. cells in different regions are specified to produce structures appropriate to their location in the nervous system as a whole,” she told lawmakers.

Dr. Condic explained, “Over the next several weeks, the brain will grow enormously and generate many complex connections, but the overall organization of the nervous system is established by four weeks. This is significant because it shows that even at this early stage, the brain is not anything like a mere collection of cells or a “blank slate” to be written upon by later developmental processes. Like all embryonic organs, the structure of the early brain “anticipates” the function of the mature system.”

When it comes to pain specifically, scientific evidence is very clear that pain can be experienced by 20 weeks of pregnancy. But Condic said unborn children have a capacity to feel pain much earlier.

“The neural circuitry responsible for the most primitive response to pain, the spinal reflex, is in place by 8 weeks of development,” she explained. “This is the earliest point at which the fetus experiences pain in any capacity.

In spite of this information, Democrats and the abortion industry are determined to have the multi-million dollar industry remain fully intact, without any new protections for babies in the womb. Fully intact, unlike the babies routinely dismembered in nationwide chop-shops. And supporting barbaric behavior of late-term abortion, horrifyingly, are various members of the clergy:

When clergy gather at an abortion clinic, it’s usually in protest, outside the building.

Rarely are they huddled inside the clinic, not to condemn but to bless the procedures that happen there.

Yet that was the Rev. Carlton Veazey’s task as he led a prayer in Bethesda on Monday. “God of grace and God of glory, in whom we move and live,” he said, as he opened a prayer for the well-being of the doctor and nurses who facilitate abortions at a clinic here and for their patients. “Keep them safe and keep them strong. And may they always know that all that they do is for Thy glory.

Veazey was one of four Christian pastors and one rabbi who gathered to bless this Bethesda abortion clinic in an unusual interfaith ceremony. (A Hindu priest who was supposed to attend from a local temple, who has blessed an abortion clinic before, didn’t make it.)

This is stunning. To pray for the well-being of medical professionals who barbarically dismember and kill late-term babies created in the image of God at a clinic specifically set up to provide late-term abortions is simply reprehensible. To proclaim that what they’re doing is being done for the glory of God , is evil. This would be the same God of whom David said in Psalm 139:

For You formed my iinward parts;
You wove me in my mother’s womb.
I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Wonderful are Your works,
And my soul knows it very well.
My frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth;
Your eyes have seen my unformed substance;
And in Your book were all written
The days that were ordained for me,
When as yet there was not one of them.

All kinds of rationalizations were offered by the clergy to justify their participation. From Rabbi Charles Feinberg,

Judaism has always said abortion is never murder. It may not be permitted, depending on the circumstances — how far along the pregnancy is, how seriously ill the mother-to-be is — but it is never murder. It only becomes that once the baby is born.

Baptist pastor Rev. Carlton Veazey justified his participation this way:

The Supreme Court affirmed a woman’s right to choose an abortion. But before the Supreme Court did it, God had already done it, because it affirms a woman’s moral agency[.]

There was also a “sanctification” of the space as prayers for the abortionists and clientele were said:

As a symbol of sanctification, the clergy sprinkled water in each room of the clinic and in the parking lot, which the Rev. Cari Jackson described as “a space of tremendous decision-making,” where women often face protesters as they walk into the medical building that houses the clinic.

“We give honor to all of these women who choose to come to this space,” said Jackson, an ordained minister in the United Church of Christ who has served in United Methodist and Presbyterian Church USA congregations. “We sanctify this space, and we honor this as holy.”

Sadly, no prayers were said for the babies that would be facing their death upon entering the butcher shop. No acknowledgement or recognition was given to the viability, worth, and preciousness of the Innocents, created in the image of God, that would be violently gutted from the safety of the womb in the new clinic. These so-called representatives of God ignored these silent witnesses of His handiwork, as well as the data that evidences pain is indeed felt by the tiny victims of late-term abortions. They ignored this reality because they had to. A friend aptly summed it up, “The Godless don’t understand what it means to be created in the image of God. That’s where the sanctity comes in. Human beings are image bearers. Human beings in the womb are no less image bearers than human beings who have already passed through the birth canal. ”

Being created in the image of God is to have a soul in existence. A soul that is in communion with God, intentionally designed with the purpose to reflect God and infused with the knowledge of right and wrong. The Godless do not recognize this because they refuse to see, and as their conscience becomes seared, they are rendered unable to do so.

If Democrats and pro-abortion members of the clergy refuse to acknowledge that late-term babies feel the unspeakable pain of having their tiny limbs torn asunder by the sharp teeth of a killing device, then I would say, sadly, that even a lobster is given more dignity than these little ones.

(Cross-posting at The Jury Talks Back.)

–Dana

90 Responses to “Democrats Refuse To Protect Babies From Late-Term Abortions”

  1. There is nothing sacred anymore.

    Dana (023079)

  2. Good grief John Wesley is rolling over, but there is 2nd Timothy to consider

    narciso (d1f714)

  3. Savages. The left always ends up there, knee deep in killing.

    I will never forget a nurse I know who was studying to be a nurse anesthetist. She quit school though because in her large medical system, the doctors gave all the abortions to the NAs, so that’s what she would be doing all day. Everyone hated abortions. Everyone.

    Patricia (3363ec)

  4. I don’t think suffer the little children means what they think it means.

    Has the president brought back the domestic millstone industry yet?

    Pinandpuller (0afcce)

  5. The democrats are only interested in harvesting baby parts.

    mg (8648c9)

  6. I am pro-abortion, and I confidently expect to see abortion broadly constrained in almost all Sates in my lifetime. This kind of tone deaf politicking is a bug reason why. Late term abortion is political poison. Oppsing parental notifcatikn laws is political poison. In a representatve form of government, being ‘right’ is not enough, you must also be aware of public opinion and prepared to give way in small matters to preserve important issues. Self-rightious feminists will not rest until they have brought about THE HANDMAIDEN’S TALE, so that they can say “I told you so” as the slave cllar snaps close on their necks.

    C. S. P. Schofield (33f56e)

  7. Chilean demonstrators silenced their pro-abortion foes recently… their group was compromised of pregnant women who used devices that they held to their bellies and then broadcast the heartbeats over loud speakers. It reportedly worked quite well.

    Colonel Haiku (0db537)

  8. Nancy Pelosi
    @NancyPelosi
    .@DevinNunes’ deliberately dishonest actions make him unfit to serve as Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee. @SpeakerRyan must immediately remove him from this position. #RemoveNunes

    —-
    Dana Loesch
    @DLoesch
    The changes made to the memo were done at the request of your party and the FBI. Are you now saying you requested him to dishonestly mischaracterize events in the memo?

    harkin (5772a2)

  9. How many babies = Maserati?

    harkin (5772a2)

  10. Conservatives only want cannon fodder so they don’t have to personally go to their wars of choice. Soldier breeders forced to deliver unwanted children

    Ben burn (7b994c)

  11. Street crime out of control?

    Hire more damaged VETS abused at several different foster homes for Law Enforcement.

    Ben burn (7b994c)

  12. It’s interesting to compare the unanimous Republican vote to #ReleasetheMemo with the less-than-enthusiastic attitude of much of the committee majority toward the document itself. When Benjamin Wittes and I reached out to the offices of every committee Republican (except Nunes) and asked whether the representatives had faith in the factual conclusions of the memo, only three members of the committee answered in the affirmative (six did not respond to our repeated requests to contact them, and three responded but conspicuously did not answer our question as to the memo’s integrity). But all thirteen Republicans voted for the document’s release. Likewise, of the majority, only Nunes, Conaway and King speak up over the course of the meeting—and Conaway’s points are mostly procedural, not a substantive defense of the memo. Also notable is that Rep. Chris Stewart told us last week that he would support the Nunes memo’s release if sensitive information were redacted, and yet voted for the unredacted memo’s publication. During the meeting, Conaway similarly voiced concerns over publication of classified information—albeit regarding the minority memo—but voted in favor of the unredacted Nunes memo’s release as well.

    https://lawfareblog.com/it-was-worse-you-think-house-intelligence-meeting-nunes-memo

    Ben burn (7b994c)

  13. Killing a baby is killing a baby, early or late. If one believes it the unlawful taking of innocent life, how could one be more or less outraged based on the circumstances without betraying that belief?

    Matador (39e0cd)

  14. It’s terrible for sure kinda like men sticking their noses into OPVs. ( other people’s vaginas)..

    Ben burn (7b994c)

  15. Complete rejection of any kind of restrictions on abortion (except possibly for motive *) is an ingrainede position of the Democratic Party now, so this shouldn’t be shocking.

    UI have aquestion though. This bill as described seemed to exceed federal jurisdiction. Was that done becaus ethe sponsers knew it would not pass. The federal government could legislate for federal bases and territories, maybe, and the District of Columbia, and maybe using interstate commerce (the telephone or banks) to arrange for or pay for an abortion, but it can’t directly prohibit them in any case.

    Was this on the grounds that it is a civil rights issue?

    ————————
    * If the reason was that the baby had the wrong sex.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  16. Don’t worry Ben, yours is safe.

    Matador (39e0cd)

  17. I guess it’s like puppies. People love them as darling babies but take them to the Pound for execution when they stop being cute.

    Ben burn (7b994c)

  18. 17… +10, matador!!!

    Colonel Haiku (0db537)

  19. You could cut and paste it and claim for yourself kernel. Your integrity has that much headroom.

    Ben burn (7b994c)

  20. Liberals and Democrats – and their media enablers – are ghouls. Straight up ghouls.

    MacGruber (15cfac)

  21. Complete rejection of any kind of restrictions on abortion (except possibly for motive *) is an ingrained position of the Democratic Party now, so this shouldn’t be shocking.

    I was thinking the same thing. Although there are important differences morally and legally, from a political standpoint I think the Democrats view the issue in about the same way as Republicans see gun control.

    (I’m not saying they’re justified, just that it’s about the last issue they would compromise on).

    Dave (445e97)

  22. Ghouls eat Yellowcake for extra war-mongering. Body bags are for adults.

    Ben burn (7b994c)

  23. Oh, c’mon. It’s not like it’s rich white ladies getting late-term abortions so why would the Democrats care? The poors and the minorities only matter to Democrats when they hit voting age.

    Jerryskids (3308c1)

  24. Who are you talking about? I spent $1800 on a specialty veterinary dermatological referral clinic. That’s not counting the money I spent on my regular vet, when my dog started losing his hair. No, it’s not mange. I don’t know what it is. The docs basically threw up their hands and said, “Bring him back if starts to bother him.”

    It doesn’t bother him. He is not a pup at 13, but I don’t give up on a dog because he wouldn’t give up on me.

    Seriously, WTFO?

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  25. 18…

    I’ve never seen a single example of a born baby being returned for execution. Have you and can you post a link?

    And it can’t be the episode of Little Rascals when Spanky tries to return his new baby brother to the hospital.

    And Hey Colonel! Congrats and Happy 42nd!

    Matador (39e0cd)

  26. “Democratic congresswoman caught on camera playing CANDY CRUSH while Trump delivered State of the Union……..”

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5340391/Democrat-played-CANDY-CRUSH-State-Union.html

    Priorities

    harkin (5772a2)

  27. 28

    Disappointing when Nancy failed the Hue and Cry conservatives appreciate..

    YOU LIE!!

    Ben burn (7b994c)

  28. I guess it’s like puppies. People love them as darling babies but take them to the Pound for execution when they stop being cute.
    Ben burn (7b994c) — 2/1/2018 @ 10:35 am

    Like h3ll.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  29. 27

    Literalists should go fishing for trout.

    Ben burn (7b994c)

  30. 30

    Do you have the context?

    Ben burn (7b994c)

  31. Exhibit 128517 that Ben whathisname doesn’t know jack.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  32. Priorities

    Sort of like golfing while Hurricane Maria wipes out Puerto Rico?

    I guess the congresswoman doesn’t have her own golf course that she can funnel taxpayer money into while she plays, so she just has to make due.

    Dave (445e97)

  33. Show this to any liberal who says Black Lives Matter!

    http://www.blackgenocide.org/images/The_Question_Graph.jpg

    Tell them they don’t count or that they’re just like puppies, that ought to do it.

    harkin (5772a2)

  34. Literalists should go fishing for trout.

    I’ve been fishing for trout. I’m actually pretty good at it with spinning tackle. I suck at fly fishing.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  35. 34 – if the Clintons were in charge of the response they’d still be looking for the money.

    harkin (5772a2)

  36. I’m also a pretty good cook, with the foil-wrapped trout stuffed with lemon.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  37. “I’m also a pretty good cook, with the foil-wrapped trout stuffed with lemon.”

    Add a few drops of Lea & Perrin’s white wine Worcestershire (the green label) – we do.

    harkin (5772a2)

  38. Always willing to improve on a recipe. The Steve57 story.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  39. don’t worry your boy Doug Jones is gonna help all the wiggle giggles lead long successful lives

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  40. (except for the ones what get aborted in the uterus)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  41. I actually bookmarked the Cookbook of the United States Navy, revised edition 1945.

    https://maritime.org/doc/cookbook1945/index.htm

    Maybe it’ll come in handy if I have lots of guests.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  42. Indiividual A identified!

    Why did Dennis Hastert agree to pay Curtis T Williams $3.5 million?

    http://illinoispaytoplay.com/2018/01/26/why-did-dennis-hastert-agree-to-pay-curtis-t-williams-3-5-million/Why did Dennis Hastert agree to pay Curtis T Williams $3.5 million?

    Truthbetold (60181b)

  43. Democrats don’t care. They’ve already instituted a system for replacing the aborted voters: immigration. The democrats have gone full-tilt communist and as such think nothing of body counts. Ask Stalin what the definition of a “statistic” is.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  44. Thank you Dana.

    NJRob (5250f7)

  45. hey ernie, welcome back, still tracing the united airlines crash of 1973 to Watergate, although you were right about Mueller, do give you props,

    https://saraacarter.com/new-strzok-page-emails-discuss-evasion-message-archiving/

    narciso (d1f714)

  46. other Babylonian and Phoenician deities also qualify, see pazuzu the uncredited guest demon in the exorcist

    narciso (d1f714)

  47. 45 — Dems have only a 50-50 risk that aborted future voters would have been Dem voters.

    They know that 90% of illegal immigrants are likely to vote Dem.

    So advocating higher abortion rates, while backing normalization and “path to citizenship” for millions of potential Dem voters who are currently in the country illegally makes the voter math better for them.

    shipwreckedcrew (75380c)

  48. THE HANDMAIDEN’S TALE, so that they can say “I told you so” as the slave cllar snaps close on their necks.

    C. S. P. Schofield (33f56e) — 2/1/2018 @ 9:30 am

    The Handmaiden’s Tale could inhabit the Hugh Jackman/John Travolta Swordfish world.

    Or maybe Mel Gibson could write and direct Baby Apocalypto.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  49. Chilean demonstrators silenced their pro-abortion foes recently… their group was compromised of pregnant women who used devices that they held to their bellies and then broadcast the heartbeats over loud speakers. It reportedly worked quite well.

    Colonel Haiku (0db537) — 2/1/2018 @ 9:49 am

    Talk about que onda.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  50. How many babies = Maserati?

    harkin (5772a2) — 2/1/2018 @ 10:00 am

    Maybe horsepower should be updated. How many babies does that car put out?

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  51. don’t talk about the war, or anything else of consequence

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/don-t-refer-to-islamist-terrorism-says-watchdog-a3755701.html

    linda sarsour is an odd choice for serena joy, strahowski was better than dunaway,

    narciso (d1f714)

  52. It’s terrible for sure kinda like men sticking their noses into OPVs. ( other people’s vaginas)..

    Ben burn (7b994c) — 2/1/2018 @ 10:22 am

    Like Roe v Wade decided by all men.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  53. I wonder what separating gender from sex is going to do to GG Ben’s argument? It doesn’t matter if I have a vagina.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  54. > If Democrats and pro-abortion members of the clergy refuse to acknowledge that late-term babies, who are able to survive outside of the womb unaided

    Do you have evidence which indicates that a 20-week-old fetus is able to survive outside the womb *unaided*? I can find an article in the NEJM which says that a significant number of babies born at 22 weeks can survive *with assistance in a hospital*, but that’s not the same thing as “surviving unaided”.

    If you have such evidence, can you point me at it?

    Otherwise, would you mind acknowledging that you are conflating “being opposed to banning abortion at twenty weeks” with “being opposed to banning abortion of fetuses which can survive without assistance”?

    aphrael (3f0569)

  55. Do you have the context?

    Ben burn (7b994c) — 2/1/2018 @ 10:59 am

    Sarah McLachlan hates babies.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  56. Otherwise, would you mind acknowledging that you are conflating “being opposed to banning abortion at twenty weeks” with “being opposed to banning abortion of fetuses which can survive without assistance”?

    aphrael (3f0569) — 2/1/2018 @ 12:34 pm

    Two year olds can’t survive without assistance.

    Also all the vegans should be going crazy over inflicting unnecessary pain on a living creature.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  57. Narcc

    Lots more coming on the Mueller front!

    Truthbetold (60181b)

  58. * If the reason was that the baby had the wrong sex.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 2/1/2018 @ 10:24 am

    That’s what filling kids with hormone blockers is for Sammy.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  59. remember how lerner prespun the news

    http://freebeacon.com/issues/irs-apologizes-pro-israel-group-biased-treatment/

    as we realize now they created a narrative about embryonic stem cells, to create a market for companies like stem express, which were protected by fusion gps,

    narciso (d1f714)

  60. Know Your Memes: Total Confession Ben

    I told the cops I left her off on the side of the road.

    I forgot to mention it was MM’s 68-82.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  61. Col Haiku, I like that Chilean action and think the pro-life movement should focus more on these public symbolic acts. Even if they could get Roe v. Wade reversed, there will still be abortions, and it will ignite a culture war like we’ve never seen.

    If we can turn cigarette smoking into the biggest faux pas in society, we can certainly change hearts and minds on abortion.

    Patricia (3363ec)

  62. no fate but what you make lil fetus

    i’m rootin for you

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  63. It’s true Dave. Just try to pull a dead baby from their cold hands. You can’t do it.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  64. 10.Conservatives only want cannon fodder so they don’t have to personally go to their wars of choice. Soldier breeders forced to deliver unwanted children
    Ben burn (7b994c) — 2/1/2018 @ 10:06 am


    You mean conservatives like me, comrade Ben!? Three tours in Nam, 13 battles, too many kills to enumerate, wounded twice, a Bronze Star with “V”. Did I personally not go to a war of my choice? I volunteered. And yet I’m pro life. Go figure. MAGA

    Hire more damaged VETS abused at several different foster homes for Law Enforcement.


    Do you have some sort of personal experience with what you so compassionately term as “damaged VETS”? Have you provided a foster home and therefore know something? I doubt it.

    What is it about you leftists that make you think being for killing babies puts you on the moral high ground? What part of “dead baby” rings of virtue? How does the term “aborted baby parts” assign compassion? Inquiring minds want to know.

    When “conservatives” send men into battle we do it for our country, or an ally, or an ideal, or patriotism, or Freedom or Liberty. When leftist kill babies in the womb they do so for convenience, for money, for votes. I spit on that phony “virtue”.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  65. The one and only abortion protest I attended I asked someone if you don’t get it in 30 minutes is it free?

    They didn’t like that.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  66. Warren – Cletus teh Fetus in 2020

    Colonel Haiku (0db537)

  67. Another “dreamer”…

    Xinran Ji, 24, had big dreams. But demons demolished them.

    The bright hopes of young Ji, a University of Southern California engineering student from Inner Mongolia, died in 2014 at the hands of a then-19-year-old “Dreamer” and his thug pals.

    Mexican illegal alien Jonathan Del Carmen, who first jumped the southern border at age 12, pleaded guilty to second-degree murder last summer in the savage robbery and fatal beating of Ji—who was walking home from a study group after midnight.

    No, it wasn’t President Donald Trump, Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents, Republicans, or conservative talk show hosts who racially profiled Ji. It was “Dreamer” Del Carmen and his partners in crime: Alberto Ochoa, 17; Andrew Garcia, 18; and Alejandra Guerrero, 16.

    The gangsters targeted Ji because he was Asian and assumed he “must have money.” Guerrero had sent Facebook messages about wanting to “flock” (rob) white and Chinese people. Off-campus neighborhoods around USC are dominated by Mexican Mafia affiliates that target foreign students and shake down local businesses owned by law-abiding immigrants.

    “Dreamer” Del Carmen and his friends stalked Ji on a street corner in south central L.A. before bashing him in the head with a baseball bat and a wrench. The attack was caught on multiple security cameras. Ji managed to stagger home to his apartment, leaving a quarter-mile trail of blood behind him.

    Sometime during the night, Ji died in his bed. And the aspirations of his family, who sacrificed everything to send him to America to pursue his studies, perished with him.

    “Dreamer” Del Carmen and his friends drove off to a nearby beach to rob two more innocent people in a city and state that have defiantly declared themselves “sanctuaries” for people in the United States illegally—not for the best and brightest like Ji, but for lawless barbarians like Del Carmen.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  68. Welcome home Rev. And thanks you for your service, Sir.

    mg (8648c9)

  69. if sleazy corrupt FBI suckboy Chris Wray resigns, that means we can finally get someone in there who’s legit, yes?

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  70. Mr. Gowdy i have a proposal for you

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  71. If Democrats and pro-abortion members of the clergy refuse to acknowledge that late-term babies, who are able to survive outside of the womb unaided

    Do you have evidence which indicates that a 20-week-old fetus is able to survive outside the womb *unaided*? I can find an article in the NEJM which says that a significant number of babies born at 22 weeks can survive *with assistance in a hospital*, but that’s not the same thing as “surviving unaided”.

    If you have such evidence, can you point me at it?

    Otherwise, would you mind acknowledging that you are conflating “being opposed to banning abortion at twenty weeks” with “being opposed to banning abortion of fetuses which can survive without assistance”?

    aphrael (3f0569) — 2/1/2018 @ 12:34 pm

    Hi aphrael,

    Thank you for pointing that out. I removed the qualifier as I went back and looked at my earlier draft and noted that I put it in after reading several links about 21-23 week babies having survived with assistance, but 3rd tri babies born without the need for assistance.

    I tried to re-word it to designate the difference, but in the end felt it was not necessary as the issue, as it pertains to the post, is really one of when they feel pain.

    I hope that’s a clear explanation, and thanks for your alerting me to it.

    Dana (023079)

  72. love spirals into tragedy pain and hopelessness

    it is ever thus

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  73. I’ve been fishing for trout. I’m actually pretty good at it with spinning tackle. I suck at fly fishing.

    Steve57 (0b1dac) — 2/1/2018 @ 11:06 am

    Don’t they make catch and release contingent on barbless hooks because

    fishbro

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  74. Stock photo sites = thinking man’s porn.

    urbanleftbehind (aa10ca)

  75. Here lately when I find uncured bacon I put a layer down on foil. Then I put two salmon fillets on top. Then a couple of pats of butter and some kind of shake on top. Feta on occasion. Convection oven 475 for eight minutes.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  76. When “conservatives” send men into battle we do it for our country, or an ally, or an ideal, or patriotism, or Freedom or Liberty. When leftist kill babies in the womb they do so for convenience, for money, for votes. I spit on that phony “virtue”.
    You were sent into battle by JFK and LBJ. Do they now rank as conservatives?

    Kishnevi (c5cd7d)

  77. Dana, thank you! That addresses my concern entirely. 🙂

    aphrael (3f0569)

  78. Pinandpuller, @59: while it’s true that a 2 year old can’t survive without assistance, there’s a huge difference between “requires support from a parent like any other child” and “would die instantly without the use of a machine which simulates the umbilical connection”.

    In the context of discussion of fetuses, ‘without assistance’ typically means ‘does not need the physical support of an external machine which simulates being in utero’.

    A huge part of the abortion debate is about at what point you think legal and/or moral personhood attaches to a fetus — so while it’s entirely consistent and reasonable to think that “can survive without mechanical assistance” is the *wrong* point of attachment, it ALSO strikes me as being badly wrong to assert that someone uses that as their point of attachment when they don’t.

    As originally constituted, this post struck me as doing that. I complained. Dana looked into my complaint and modified the post. I appreciate Dana’s willingness to do that. 🙂

    aphrael (3f0569)

  79. For the religious minded:
    Jesus had no reservations about criticizing point of traditional Jewish law he thought wrong. Most famously, the laws of divorce.

    The Mishnah rules, without objection, that if the life of the mother was endangered, the child should be aborted, and this is allowed at any time until the child’s head emerges from the birth canal. Since there is no variance on this, that would have been settled Jewish law during Jesus’s lifetime. The Gospels are silent on this issue, which implies that the early Church was not opposed to abortion in some circumstances. So people who want to completely ban late term abortions are being stricter than Jesus.

    And also this: if a Jewish doctor thinks an abortion is necessary for the life of the mother, that rule of the Mishnah means he is (potentially at least) a murderer if he does not perform the abortion. Meaning the ability to perform an abortion is actually an issue of religious freedom.

    Kishnevi (c5cd7d)

  80. Beauty is only skin deep but ungrateful goes straight to the bone

    Michelle Robinson

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  81. BTW, Rabbi Feinberg’s statement is actually a fairly accurate representation of mainstream Jewish thinking. I have never heard of Rabbi Feinberg, btw, before this.

    Kishnevi (c5cd7d)

  82. And also this: if a Jewish doctor thinks an abortion is necessary for the life of the mother, that rule of the Mishnah means he is (potentially at least) a murderer if he does not perform the abortion. Meaning the ability to perform an abortion is actually an issue of religious freedom.

    Kishnevi (c5cd7d) — 2/1/2018 @ 2:25 pm

    That makes a lot of sense. But technology has greatly diminished or mitigated many of those threats to the woman’s life from her child. I guess technology can’t eliminate procrastination.

    As an aside, business took me to a synagogue today. I actually used to work with this guy named World Famous Wayne who attended this particular house. I had tried to work out attending a service with him but that never happened. Anyway, I was wondering if you could instruct me in a casual Hebrew “thank you” for the future.

    World Famous Wayne

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  83. Never heard of WFW.
    But the literal Hebrew for thank you is “todah” which politeness usually expands to “todah rabbah”. The difference can be illustrated by referring to Spanish: gracias/muchas gracias.

    Kishnevi (c5cd7d)

  84. Why did Dennis Hastert agree to pay Curtis T Williams $3.5 million?

    Truthbetold (60181b) — 2/1/2018 @ 11:36 am

    Because he was worth it?

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  85. @86 Todah.

    You might know WFW from co writing Viva NashVegas but probably not.

    I have a copy somewhere.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  86. While I think that abortion decisions ought to be taken well before 20 weeks, I am unconvinced that a fetus is viable at that time. I am almost positive than no hospital will attempt the heroic efforts needed to keep a 20-week delivery alive. Even if they are successful, so much development has been missed that the child will live a short and painful life.

    I would have no problem with banning abortions after 20 weeks, but the reality is that a live delivery at that point is functionally an abortion anyway.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  87. This is a great post.

    As a Christmas present my mom paid for Costco to transfer our old Hi8 tapes to DVD so we can watch them. Last night we watched (non-graphic) video from inside the hospital room when our son was born. It’s truly a magical moment. That supposed men of the cloth could bless the taking of a child’s life is nauseating.

    Patterico (115b1f)


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