It’s Pretty Clear What Trump Is Up To
[guest post by Dana]
Trump’s three goals:
By militarizing the situation in L.A., Trump is goading Americans more generally to take him on in the streets of their own cities, thus enabling his attacks on their constitutional freedoms. As I’ve listened to him and his advisers over the past several days, they seem almost eager for public violence that would justify the use of armed force against Americans.
. . .
First, they will turn America’s attention away from Trump’s many failures and inane feuds, and reestablish his campaign persona as a strongman who will brush aside the law if that’s what it takes to keep order in the streets. Perhaps nothing would please Trump more than to replace weird stories about Elon Musk with video of masked protesters burning cars as lines of helmeted police and soldiers march over them and impose draconian silence in one of the nation’s largest and most diverse cities.
Second, as my colleague David Frum warned this morning, Trump is establishing that he is willing to use the military any way he pleases, perhaps as a proof of concept for suppressing free elections in 2026 or 2028. Trump sees the U.S. military as his personal honor guard and his private muscle. Those are his toy soldiers, and he’s going to get a show from his honor guard in a birthday parade next weekend. In the meantime, he’s going to flex that muscle, and prove that the officers and service members who will do whatever he orders are the real military. The rest are suckers and losers.
. . .
Third, Trump may be hoping to radicalize the citizen-soldiers drawn from the community who serve in the National Guard. (Seizing the California Guard is also a convenient way to humiliate California Governor Gavin Newsom and L.A. Mayor Karen Bass, with the president’s often-used narrative that liberals can’t control their own cities.) Trump has the right to “federalize” Guard forces, which is how they were deployed overseas in America’s various conflicts. He has never respected the traditions of American civil-military relations, which regard the domestic deployment of the military as an extreme measure to be avoided whenever possible. Using the Guard could be a devious tactic: He may be hoping to set neighbor against neighbor, so that the people called to duty return to their home and workplace with stories of violence and injuries.
To what end, you might ask? Well, according to Nichols:
In the longer run, Trump may be trying to create a national emergency that will enable him to exercise authoritarian control. (Such an emergency was a rationalization, for example, for the tariffs that he has mostly had to abandon.) He has for years been trying to desensitize the citizens of the United States to un-American ideas and unconstitutional actions.
Ultimately:
So far, even the Los Angeles Police Department—not exactly a bastion of squishy suburban book-club liberals—has emphasized that the protests have been mostly peaceful. Trump is apparently trying to change that. Sending in the National Guard is meant to provoke, not pacify, and his power will only grow if he succeeds in tempting Americans to intemperate reactions that give him the authoritarian opening he’s seeking.
Protesters would do well to shame and disassociate from any of their own using violence as a means of protest. By tamping down the violence, Trump would have no need to bring in the military, and essentially will look the fool for having done so. This, of course, is aside from the issue of the deportation of immigrants legally here, families, and children. It’s also aside from , migrants’ rights to due process being ignored.
Here is a thorough explainer on domestic use of the military. And here is a brief video explaining troop activation in Los Angeles.
Gov. Newsom has made his strong objections known to Trump for bringing in the National Guard without the governor having requested the president to do so. In fact, Newsom is planning on suing the Trump administration. Plus, as we know, there’s always a tweet:
Trump in 2020: We have to go by the laws. We can't move in the National Guard. I can call insurrection but there's no reason to ever do that, even in a Portland case.
We can't call in the National Guard unless we're requested by a governor. pic.twitter.com/0sTAa9CiCX— Acyn (@Acyn) June 9, 2025
—Dana
Hello.
Dana (e927ac) — 6/9/2025 @ 10:40 amI agree with all those points. The writers for the Trump Show understand that they need a manufactured or instigated crisis. Unfortunately, the Left’s rabble will generally be happy to oblige. The benefit…in addition to drama and exacerbating divisions…is that it tweaks yet one more norm and one more expected behavior of the President. This will excite MAGAverse to rationalize, emotionalize, excuse, and what-about the whole episode. We’re doomed as a country if our fellow Americans can no longer draw lines on power without first checking for party ID….
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 6/9/2025 @ 10:57 amThe riots in LA are solely the fault of democrats across the board. Not too surprising based on their worship of violence and lawbreaking when it suits them.
David Longfellow (93a64f) — 6/9/2025 @ 11:26 amAs we both linked to Nichols, I’m waiting for a right-wing MAGA to step in and say that “this is the stupidest bit of insight that has ever been posted on the internet.” One standard.
As I said in the other thread, this situation isn’t 1965 (the last time a president dispatched a National Guard contingetn without a governor’s consent) or 1992 (when a president did so with gubernatorial consent). Not even close.
This was a manageable situation by local law enforcement.
It’s about a president stretching the bounds of his authority by falsely claiming there’s “rebellion”, just like his false claims about trade deficits being a “national emergency”, just like his false claims about TdA being sent by Maduro to invade America. It’s noteworthy that his directive isn’t confined to California, and that a US military occupation of an American city can last indefinitely, “at the discretion of the Secretary of Defense” who is meekly subservient to this president.
Paul Montagu (295799) — 6/9/2025 @ 12:02 pm“We made a great decision in sending the National Guard to deal with the violent, instigated riots in California. It we had not done so, Los Angeles would have been completely obliterated.”
–Donald J. Trump, today
Like with Ukraine and his false claim that the country is “demolished”, Trump’s dystopian view of a destroyed LA without his “help” are the delusions of a mentally deranged malignant narcissist.
Paul Montagu (295799) — 6/9/2025 @ 12:21 pmThis was a manageable situation by local law enforcement.
I’m not sure I agree with you, Paul Montagu. Here is what was reported by Brittany Bernstein at National Review Online (bolded emphasis added by me):
If this is correct and it took the notoriously disorganized LAPD two hours to get its act together (or, even more ominously, this was a calculated delay by LA officials to hinder ICE’s efforts) then I have a hard time blaming the Trump Administration for bringing in federal troops. This is where all of the “sanctuary city” stuff comes head-to-head against the American people’s desire to combat illegal immigration. Nobody thought it was going to be pretty.
JVW (4e1a52) — 6/9/2025 @ 12:22 pmPutting out fires with gasoline.
Colonel Klink (ret) (9dbb75) — 6/9/2025 @ 12:32 pmJVW, thank you for the link. You may be interested in last night’s LAPD press conference. The chief pretty much opens with a defense of the 2 hour delay by saying it didn’t happen. The problem with his defense appears to be that he is talking about the original ICE action in the neighborhood whereas your quote is talking about the delay at the Federal Building. I don’t think he was trying to be coy. There is clearly still a miscommunication going on. Having watched most of the protest/riot you are absolutely correct about “notoriously disorganized.” That was on full display for a couple hours upon arrival on the Federal Building scene.
Dana, you may be interested in the full press conference as well. The “violence” is much better explained in the first-person by the chief than it is by Nichols.
BuDuh (c1ecb3) — 6/9/2025 @ 12:37 pmMost of the Atlantic article is behind a paywall.
Not sure about this. I think what he’s looking for is more support for his immigration policies, by “proving” that the opposition to it is violent, and against law and order and freedom and the and the deportees are criminals and tough measures are necessary and we should pay no attention to sob stories..
He’s looking for justification – and divisive politics, which he thinks, or his aides think, mean he will come out on top – and also to get Americans to tolerate cruelty and insensitivity – and that has a more general purpose. Not limited to non-citizens.
He, or some of his aides, look for every opportunity to harden attitudes. (sometimes they get helped along by distortions made by the legacy media)
During the campaign, he read a poem or a song called “The Snake” whose theme is basically that no good deed goes unpunished. I just read about that.
The people who want constitutional rights limited are the people behind the protesters, because they eventually expect the
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 6/9/2025 @ 12:47 pmI think they’re even starting to take credit for the reduction in murders this year. I thought that was New York City Police Commissioner Jessica Tisch simply being more efficient in the use of police or something having to do with guns that hasn’t hit the news.pendulum to swing.
The people who want constitutional rights limited are the people behind the protesters, because they eventually expect the pendulum to swing. Trump is focused on policy, not law.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 6/9/2025 @ 12:48 pmAlternatively, he is trying to enforce immigration law in the face of civil obstruction at the behest of local politicians. Face it, Los Angeles City and County are extremely hostile to the idea of deporting illegal immigrants, or even discussing them as part of civic problems (such as housing costs, homelessness and traffic). The state gives drivers’ licenses to those who have no other documentation (ver a million added drivers on the roads) and pays them benefits as if they were citizens — benefits that legal immigrants avoid taking due to immigration rules.
If you come at this story from the “Trump is evil, let’s see what he’s up to” perspective, you will conclude whatever you want to conclude. How about a story on California and Los Angeles’ criminality in giving aid to, and concealing, persons known to be illegally present.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/9/2025 @ 12:53 pmIf they want to win sympathy on the issue. But they want (unchecked) power.
And if the Chinese Communist Party (through cut outs) has anything to do with the protests, a less free United States could be exactly what they want.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 6/9/2025 @ 12:57 pmKevin M (a9545f) — 6/9/2025 @ 12:53 pm
That’s the picture Trump wants to create. I think Trump just wants to be “right”
Is the sky blue?
But they don’t quite have the courage of their convictions.
There should be nothing to “face.” This is known.
Trump’s aim is to make that unacceptable.
illegally present.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 6/9/2025 @ 1:05 pmMayor Karen Bass, Friday:
Not only is she strongly opposed to immigration enforcement, but the city is providing funds, facilities and resources to assist unlawful immigrants to evade federal law enforcement. In the face of this, it is not hard to understand Trump’s distrust of local law enforcement.
It’s not that the city won’t be “commandeered” but that they are actively working against the federal government, both openly and surreptitiously. The Supremacy Clause remains the law of the land, even under Trump, and California’s attempts at Nullification must yield.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/9/2025 @ 1:06 pmFacts not in evidence. How have the civil authorities obstructed immigration enforcement?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/9/2025 @ 1:09 pmJVW (4e1a52) — 6/9/2025 @ 12:22 pm
If you get incessant propaganda for 50 years on talk radio, with nobody arguing against it except on the margins, you should expect support. This is not what supporters of majority rule had in mind. The matter has not been debated.
I beg to differ. They did expect it to be pretty – and a vital necessity. Just murderers, rapists and mental patients.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 6/9/2025 @ 1:09 pmReposted from the open thread
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/9/2025 @ 1:10 pmBreaking-
If the Marines “won’t engage with protestors” then what is the point?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/9/2025 @ 1:14 pmIt would behoove Democrat members of Congress to work with Republicans to reform immigration law. Not the minor tweaks that solved nothing we saw in 2023, but a real, actual rewrite of the existing, failed, law that eliminates those provisions that are gamed and abused (and clears out the backlog of fraudulent claims), while providing some equity to those innocently caught up in this morass.
It is often said that the way to fix bad law is to enforce it rigorously. Which Trump is doing. Does he have added ambitions? ALL presidents want to expand their power; this goes back to the Founding. But be honest — do not the state and local governments have a role here? Declaring themselves a sanctuary for those violating federal law seems like casting the first stone.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/9/2025 @ 1:17 pmMarines Are Deploying to Los Angeles Area
This is a mistake. Trump can get away with the NG in the face of local obstruction, but using the Marines (or the Army) is a bridge too far. Worse, it’s a blunder.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/9/2025 @ 1:19 pmhttps://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/insects-floods-and-the-snake-what-trumps-use-of-metaphors-reveals
Trump applied that to immigration, but the song is more general and can apply anywhere a person may claim it fits – or maybe everywhere.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/the-snake-song-lyrics-trump-b2464914.html
Here are the lyrics:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/the-snake-song-lyrics-trump-b2464914.html
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 6/9/2025 @ 1:19 pmIt is really too bad that the immigration push is being driven by such untrustworthy individuals, but they are who the American people elected, and this is the cause that they were elected to fulfill.
Is the effort likely to be brutal? Well, it’s after 30 years of inaction, so it’s not really solvable on the margins.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/9/2025 @ 1:23 pmSo far, even the Los Angeles Police Department—not exactly a bastion of squishy suburban book-club liberals—has emphasized that the protests have been mostly peaceful.
Ask Waymo what they think about this. The LAPD may not be squishy, but their mouthpieces are the mayor’s puppets.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/9/2025 @ 1:30 pmIt’s also aside from , migrants’ rights to due process being ignored.
Due process should not be endless process. Nor should it run until the desired results occur. This is the disconnect, and Trump is using the endless gaming by some to deny any process to others. There are no reasonable people involved, just zealots.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/9/2025 @ 1:33 pmThe Fable of the Farmer and the Snake dates back to Aesop. I’m not sure when along the way the protagonist changed from a farmer to an old lady.
JVW (4e1a52) — 6/9/2025 @ 1:35 pm“The snake” is actually an older idea:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog
I thought this was older.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 6/9/2025 @ 1:35 pmIt depends what “sanctuary” means. It is clear that state and local governments cannot prevent the federal government from enforcing federal immigration laws. It means that they are under no obligation to assist ICE in arresting illegal immigrants; governments are on firm legal ground to do so, under the 10th Amendment and the Supreme Court’s anti-commandeering doctrine (the first Trump administration lost several cases on these grounds.) Granting benefits to illegal immigrants is also protected by the 10th Amendment.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/9/2025 @ 1:37 pmDue process should not be endless process.
Yes indeed. Those currently subject to deportation orders should be processed and deported once their identity is established. They do not get another court hearing, even if their deportation order is decades old.
JVW (4e1a52) — 6/9/2025 @ 1:38 pmNobody but unworthy individuals would propose it.
Ronald Reagan solved the problem with amnesty – unfortunately it was premised upon not needing to do it again.
There were also previous amnesties – one I think in 1948. And also for draft evaders.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 6/9/2025 @ 1:40 pmIt means that they are under no obligation to assist ICE in arresting illegal immigrants. . . .
OK, but by the same token the sanctuary city or state have very little room to whine and moan when even more federal resources — in this case the National Guard — come in to assist federal agents. These cities can’t have it both ways.
JVW (4e1a52) — 6/9/2025 @ 1:43 pmHey, Rip, why don’t you talk about non-commandeering some more. No one is disputing it, but you seem to like talking about it.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/9/2025 @ 1:43 pmGranting benefits to illegal immigrants is also protected by the 10th Amendment.
The federal government has control over immigration and has ever since 1808, when state control ceased. That means that the 10th Amendment does not apply to providing aid to what amount to federal fugitives. See 8 USC 1324 for examples of laws prohibiting some types of aid to illegal aliens. Clearly this is within the federal scope and 10A does not apply.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/9/2025 @ 1:49 pmKevin M (a9545f) — 6/9/2025 @ 1:49 pm
That is a hallucination made without any help from artificial intelligence but an hallucination nevertheless.
All that happened in 1808 is that Congress got the authority to prohibit the slave trade, and it had general authority to do so under the power to regulate foreign commerce. But it never had control of immigration – only naturalization.
Thee is also what might be incidental to national defense. But that’s the border. Not internal enforcement.
There were some cases circa 1849 about ports but nothing seems to have gotten started till 1876, or maybe 1882.
You won’t find that the “American” or “Know Nothing” Party in the 1850s ever put forth a proposal on immigration.
It would apply in a textualist reading.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 6/9/2025 @ 2:02 pmJVW (4e1a52) — 6/9/2025 @ 1:43 pm
What they are objecting to (notionally at least) is the use of federal forces to deal with riots.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 6/9/2025 @ 2:11 pmSammy, you are wrong. There was never a provision to allow the slave trade. It allowed the states to admit such persons as they thought proper, until 1808. At that point the states no longer had the power to admit people, and it transferred to federal control.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/9/2025 @ 2:12 pmD
Justice delayed is justice denied, or some such galaxy brained thinking.
Laws exist, the excuse that it’s hard and no one addressed it, means we ignore the law, because it’s hard, so the reactionaries break every law and norm.
This is childish, it is hard, there are laws, and there are processes to follow.
Eww it’s hard, so why bother, is just quitter talk. What are you french?
Colonel Klink (ret) (9dbb75) — 6/9/2025 @ 2:12 pmThe Marines need to make a statement and rappel from helicopters in front of City Hall.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/9/2025 @ 2:31 pmThe polling on this must not be good for the Democrats, I believe Adam Schiff is now saying violence is never the answer.
If it is so obvious that Trump’s goal is to provoke enough violence to give him a pretext to militarize the country, whatever that may mean, then Mayor Bass and Gov. Newsom must not be very astute. They could have easily kept their distance from Trump and ICE while still ordering a stronger law enforcement response in favor of keeping order. Instead, they refused to criticize violent protesters and we ended up having scenes of pro-Palestinian protesters throwing cement chunks on to cop cars (what does the Palestinian cause have to do with immigration?). All that is not going to play well with people around the country who may not know just what is going on in LA, but don’t like seeing law enforcement attacked. If California’s Democratic leaders are going to be so stupid, then the state party definitely needs a change at the top.
I predict the next theory to be all the rage will be that undercover FBI agent provocateurs are responsible for the worst violence. Sort of a mirror image of what the crazies on the right liked to claim were the real culprits for J6 or said to try to excuse a plan to kidnap or kill the governor of Michigan. Although, given some of the actions of the FBI going back to at least the ’60s, there might even be some elements of truth to it.
RL formerly in Glendale (83eb44) — 6/9/2025 @ 2:31 pmIs there an argument in that word-array, Colonel?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/9/2025 @ 2:31 pmMore on the peaceful protests:
Downtown Los Angeles vandalized after protests
Probably just happened, unrelated to the peaceful protesting.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/9/2025 @ 2:36 pmThe Marines need to make a statement and rappel from helicopters in front of City Hall.
Breaking in the windows of the Mayor’s office to arrest her and drag her out the same windows to the waiting choppers.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/9/2025 @ 2:37 pmThis clearly implies that after 1808, any migration or importation may be prohibited, and since then Congress has passed several laws regarding immigration. Even if they only outlawed the slave trade in 1808, they had the POWER to do more than that, and still do.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/9/2025 @ 2:40 pmI’m not convinced that being slow to respond to rioting (assuming that’s true, for the sake of argument) is good enough reason to federalize the National Guard, not just in California but nationwide, for a “rebellion” that doesn’t exist, that Trump made up.
Paul Montagu (295799) — 6/9/2025 @ 2:47 pmThe hand wringing about “oopsie, I think too many browns were let in, so let’s ignore all laws because, something something blah blah”
Does the constitution only matter when it’s convenient? “The new MAGAGOOP slogan, make america great again, unless it’s hard, then whatever.”
Colonel Klink (ret) (9dbb75) — 6/9/2025 @ 2:48 pmDonald Trump on arresting Gavin Newsom: ‘I’d do it.’
As President, Trump does have the authority to order the FBI to arrest Newsom.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/9/2025 @ 2:54 pm> If the Marines “won’t engage with protestors” then what is the point?
Acculturating everyone to their use so that in the future they *can* be used to engage with protestors.
This is the playbook that has been used in countless states that were developing into authoritarian hellholes. We aren’t immune.
I expect the government of California to be dissolved by federal order within a decade.
aphrael (992cf7) — 6/9/2025 @ 2:56 pm> OK, but by the same token the sanctuary city or state have very little room to whine and moan when even more federal resources — in this case the National Guard — come in to assist federal agents.
The job of the national guard is *not* to enforce federal law. Among other things, posse comitatus forbids it.
The LAPD is capable of maintaining order on the streets of Los Angeles. The national guard is not needed for that purpose, so what *legal* purpose has brought them to our streets?
aphrael (992cf7) — 6/9/2025 @ 2:57 pmNichols:
Looks like we’re at the stage of Trump hatred where law-enforcement officers upholding the law are thugs. This is the type of rhetoric that gets LEOs killed. But, hatred of Trump justifies anything.
lloyd (d5930d) — 6/9/2025 @ 2:59 pm“The LAPD is capable of maintaining order on the streets of Los Angeles.”
LMAO
lloyd (d5930d) — 6/9/2025 @ 2:59 pm> Trump can get away with the NG in the face of local obstruction, but using the Marines (or the Army) is a bridge too far. Worse, it’s a blunder.
His fanbois will cheer it and it will become accepted practice, and it’s the next step towards using the army more broadly to enforce federal law in the face of public opposition — which his fanbois will *also* cheer.
This is in no way a surprise if you’ve been paying attention, and this outcome was *etched in stone* the day Trump was re-elected.
aphrael (992cf7) — 6/9/2025 @ 3:00 pm> Does the constitution only matter when it’s convenient?
The constitution only matters when it supports the preferred political position of the person invoking it.
Virtually nobody on either the left *or* the right still accepts the constitution as a meaningful limit on their behavior.
aphrael (992cf7) — 6/9/2025 @ 3:01 pmArresting Newsom would turn around his odds of winning the next presidential election, which are pretty dismal at present.
lloyd (d5930d) — 6/9/2025 @ 3:09 pmThe LA situation is a mess of Biden’s making. Had his supporters just demanded a minimal amount of sanity in his immigration policy, Trump wouldn’t have won. It was an easy ask — but the truth is, Biden supporters wanted border chaos.
lloyd (d5930d) — 6/9/2025 @ 3:15 pmNot quite true.
Footnotes omitted.
>
Based on what? 8 U.S.C. § 1324 is the alien smuggling criminal statute; it says nothing about what state or local governments can or cannot do under the 10th Amendment. Has any state or local government been prosecuted under this section?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/9/2025 @ 3:17 pmYou might want to watch the press conference I linked above. The National Guard limited their presence to the Federal property that was violently attacked the night before. They were not out on the “streets.”
BuDuh (c85533) — 6/9/2025 @ 3:19 pmDon’t fire unless fired upon ;but if they mean to have war let it begin here! Peoples militia col. Parker lexington green April 19 1775.
asset (c54d21) — 6/9/2025 @ 3:19 pmAmong other things, posse comitatus forbids it.
The National Guard is generally not subject to that law.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/9/2025 @ 3:22 pmAgain, Rip,
1) After 1808, Congress had the power to prohibit (or regulate) any migration or importation.
or
2) Congress never had that power, before or after, and this was just a spurious sentence.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/9/2025 @ 3:26 pmI have no idea what was needed but I certainly wouldn’t want those “protests” on any roads in my community. They looked dangerous to me.
I could understand the delayed response, too. We see countless examples of how it takes many police to stop 1 stolen or evading vehicle. This was much more complicated than that.
DRJ (a84ee2) — 6/9/2025 @ 3:31 pmThe submission of a ship’s manifest to state authorities does not give the state anything but ministerial power over the manifest. They could block offloading of persons or cargo, but only as they were prohibited by federal law. They could not decide to ignore federal law and admit that deemed unlawful.
As far as 1875, is concerned, it may ALSO be part of the Commerce Clause, but again, why did the Framers include such a mistake in Article I, Section 9?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/9/2025 @ 3:31 pmI could understand the delayed response, too.
If the Mayor had not encouraged these protests in the first place (see #13), that would be a fair explanation. But I just cannot give the highly political city government the benefit of the doubt. They knew what was coming and could have prepared for it.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/9/2025 @ 3:34 pmYou might want to watch the press conference I linked above. The National Guard limited their presence to the Federal property that was violently attacked the night before. They were not out on the “streets.”
Of course, that’s not the story the MSM presents.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/9/2025 @ 3:38 pmBased on what? 8 U.S.C. § 1324 is the alien smuggling criminal statute
Either that statute is unconstitutional, or it represents a regulation of action on behalf of illegal aliens.. It is not limited to “smuggling.”
Has any state or local government been prosecuted under this section?
No, but it does not have a carve-out for them either. It’s possible that Governor Abbot could have a problem there.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/9/2025 @ 3:41 pmIf we someday learn the Governor or Mayor told the police or Sheriff not to respond, that matters. Do we already know that?
DRJ (a84ee2) — 6/9/2025 @ 4:00 pmI do not understand how Trump continues to screw up things that should be impossible to screw up (no, I do understand. He only cares about making dramatic statements, not actually getting anything done.).
Does anyone believe that arresting 239 people a week in LA is going to take care of the problem, even in LA?
Do they need thousands of soldiers to arrest the 56 people who were arrested?
No. The answer to both questions is no. It’s all just showboating.
Nic (120c94) — 6/9/2025 @ 4:30 pmThe job of the national guard is *not* to enforce federal law. Among other things, posse comitatus forbids it.
The LAPD is capable of maintaining order on the streets of Los Angeles. The national guard is not needed for that purpose, so what *legal* purpose has brought them to our streets?
Uh, no aphrael, the LAPD is apparently not capable of maintaining order on the streets, at least not while ICE is operating. Forget Trump’s dumb ramblings about insurrection; mobilizing the National Guard in order to protect federal law enforcement agents in a riot is a very legitimate response, especially when local authorities are apparently asleep at the switch.
JVW (4e1a52) — 6/9/2025 @ 4:36 pmDo you have a link to this story?
BuDuh (c85533) — 6/9/2025 @ 4:40 pmhttps://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/live-blog/la-unrest-live-updates-crowds-protesting-immigration-raids-rcna211757
Trump ordered the deployment of 2000 troops. 56 people were arrested at the protests over the weekend. Do we really need 2000 troops when only 56 people needed arresting?
Nic (120c94) — 6/9/2025 @ 4:49 pmIs this some sort of hot tub time machine thing? You first made it sound like 2000 troops arrested 56 people. Your link title says that 2000 troops have been called up.
I think you have something mixed up in the timeline.
How many troops have arrested how many people?
BuDuh (c85533) — 6/9/2025 @ 4:54 pm@BuDuh@69 I’m sorry you misread? If you are calling up 2000 troops to quell violent civilian unrest, there better be enough violent unrest to quell. 56 people being arrested for breaking the law isn’t enough violent unrest to require that many call-ups. Do 56 arrests indicate a need for 2000 troops? Nope.
(also, sorry, I assumed people were keeping up with the number of people who were arrested for deportation, which is the 239 number, but I realize I didn’t state that outright.)
Nic (120c94) — 6/9/2025 @ 5:00 pmArtI.S9.C1.1 is limited to the slave trade, and is a historical nullity. There is no evidence that it provides any other authority to Congress. I have no idea why you think the Founding Fathers made a “mistake.”
What commentary supports your position?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/9/2025 @ 5:02 pmHow would it be unconstitutional or how does it “represent” a regulation of action on behalf of illegal aliens? Did you read it?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/9/2025 @ 5:04 pmBut how many did the 2000 arrest? You are skipping a step, I think. Or something. Or do you believe the future presence of troops resulted in the past arrests?
BuDuh (c85533) — 6/9/2025 @ 5:04 pmThose arrested were by the LAPD and LASD. The troops are to protect federal facilities and federal law enforcement which have been attacked by dozens of rioters.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/9/2025 @ 5:06 pm“Every time I drop one crab pot I only catch 56 total crabs, ergo dropping 2, 10, 100, infinity crab pots will only yield 56 total crabs.”
BuDuh (c85533) — 6/9/2025 @ 5:09 pm“A rising tide will lift only 56 boats”
BuDuh (c85533) — 6/9/2025 @ 5:10 pmThe NG is not enforcing federal law. It is protecting federal facilities and law enforcement from physical threats.
Posse comitatus only applies to federal troops, not a state’s National Guard; and the NG is not performing law enforcement activities, such as arrest and detention. If they had been called up under the Insurrection Act posse comitatus would not apply, as there is an exception when an insurrection has been declared.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/9/2025 @ 5:16 pm@BuDuh@73 I’m not skipping steps, I’m saying, “What reasonable person looks at 56 lawbreakers and thinks ‘we need 2000 military troops to facilitate that.'”
@Rip@74 dozens
Nic (120c94) — 6/9/2025 @ 5:23 pmThis is a crazy question that I am going to ask, Nic. Is it possible that the larger net is used to catch more fish?
BuDuh (c1ecb3) — 6/9/2025 @ 5:31 pm@BuDuh@79 Well, the SFPD, a much smaller force, managed to arrest 150 lawbreaking protesters over the weekend, so I think if the LAPD, a much larger force, only arrested 56, then that was probably the number of people who were breaking the law. Also, the SFPD apparently didn’t need ANY national guard help.
Nic (120c94) — 6/9/2025 @ 5:39 pmSource
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/9/2025 @ 5:40 pmThe National Guard is generally not subject to posse comitatus act
.
State Active Duty (SAD): When the National Guard is operating under state authority, commanded by the state governor, and funded by the state, the Posse Comitatus Act generally does not apply. In this status, the Guard can often act in a law enforcement capacity within their home state or an adjacent state if invited by that state’s governor.
Federal Active Duty (Title 10 Status): When the National Guard is “federalized” and called into federal service by the President under Title 10 of the U.S. Code, they become part of the federal armed forces. In this status, they are subject to the Posse Comitatus Act, just like other branches of the military. This means they are generally prohibited from participating in civilian law enforcement activities unless there’s an express statutory or constitutional exception.
Hybrid (Title 32 Status): This is a middle ground where the National Guard remains under state command and control but performs federal missions and receives federal funding. Crucially, the Posse Comitatus Act generally does not apply in Title 32 status because they are considered to be under state control, even though they are performing federal missions.
Colonel Klink (ret) (9dbb75) — 6/9/2025 @ 5:44 pmI wonder what this is referring too?
Minimization and Denial: The events are consistently downplayed, often referred to as “political turmoil” or a “riot” that was swiftly dealt with to restore stability.
Emphasis on Stability and Economic Development: The government asserts that the actions taken were necessary to maintain social order and ensure economic growth.
“Internal Affair” Framing: Any international criticism is dismissed as interference in internal affairs.
Censorship and Erasure: Public commemoration, discussion, and even online references to the crackdown are heavily censored. The government actively attempts to erase the event from collective memory.
Justification of Force: While rarely going into detail, the government implies or states that force was a last resort necessary to quell a dangerous situation, sometimes highlighting violence against soldiers by “radicalized protesters” to legitimize the crackdown.
Colonel Klink (ret) (9dbb75) — 6/9/2025 @ 5:47 pmThe police chief at the ongoing current press conference just addressed this. He said there are a lot more arrests coming after they calm the situation. Your number is premature.
BuDuh (c85533) — 6/9/2025 @ 5:51 pm@BuDuh@84 Sure, we can wait and see, but there hasn’t been anything on my news indicating an out of control emergency requiring a military call up of thousands of soldiers.
Nic (120c94) — 6/9/2025 @ 6:04 pmThe President’s unlawful order infringes on Governor Newsom’s role as Commander-in-Chief of the California National Guard and violates the state’s sovereign right to control and have available its National Guard in the absence of a lawful invocation of federal power.
Orval Faubus approves this message.
JVW (4e1a52) — 6/9/2025 @ 6:04 pmAndy McCarthy argues that President Trump, though a highly imperfect vessel, is well within his authority (bolded emphasis added by me):
As I argued earlier, the National Guard is not there to arrest illegal immigrants, they are there to protect ICE when they are being beset by a mob.
JVW (4e1a52) — 6/9/2025 @ 6:09 pmThe Mayor just confirmed that all the National Guard has done since their arrival is protect federal property, Nic.
BuDuh (c1ecb3) — 6/9/2025 @ 6:12 pmThe Mayor’s assistant is now explaining how to use the hotline to report any federal vehicle that is spotted anywhere in the city so an alert can be sent out to scared migrants(or something like that). I have to believe that Nichols’ Unsatisfied Warriors would skip his advice and go right ahead and “confront” law enforcement and the military if they got coordinates from the out of control local government.
BuDuh (c1ecb3) — 6/9/2025 @ 6:18 pmPrior to the arrival of the National Guard:
https://x.com/jeremotographs/status/1931425912106680714
https://x.com/RedWave_Press/status/1931529297103131130
It is a nutty concept, but I think the Feds sent Feds to protect Feds in a community whose local government expresses contempt for Feds.
BuDuh (c1ecb3) — 6/9/2025 @ 6:26 pmIt’s pretty obvious that the LA Mayor and her greater cabal of ideological attorneys are trying to stop as many arrests as possible and ensure that only the lowest level idiots catch any federal charges so they can repeat this trick later.
Thomas Carlyle (c448e8) — 6/9/2025 @ 6:39 pmThe live media shot on YouTube showed a truck arriving and someone in the bed started handing out “bionic masks”.
Separately a reporter on the street explained to the anchors that she is seeing a specific strategy employed. When police call for an unlawful assembly the crowd immediately moves in unison to another area and waits for another announcement in that area and then they move again. She noted that there was an extraordinary amount of coordination involved with very specific movements. Apparently this is just enough to not break the law.
Additionally she noted that the majority of the signs and t-shirts were mass produced and not individualized.
Hopefully Nichols can mass text this group before they help Trump.
BuDuh (c1ecb3) — 6/9/2025 @ 7:13 pmThere’s enough expansive language to question its legality, such as using National Guard even for protests.
Paul Montagu (295799) — 6/9/2025 @ 7:22 pmThere’s enough expansive language to question its legality, such as using National Guard even for protests.
Color me shocked that you found an academic (on Bluesky, no less) to argue that a Republican President can’t do something which he would probably stand up and cheer if a Democrat President did the same.
JVW (4e1a52) — 6/9/2025 @ 7:31 pmAd hominem in lieu of addressing an argument by an expert.
Paul Montagu (295799) — 6/9/2025 @ 7:36 pmOver at The Spectator, Andy Palmer makes the “a pox on all of their houses” argument:
I think this is my favorite take on the situation thus far.
JVW (4e1a52) — 6/9/2025 @ 7:38 pm@Buduh@88 The video shows one guy throwing rocks. They should probably call that in.
@Buduh@92 If they aren’t breaking the law, they are just being irritating, even if they are being irritating in a coordinated way. You don’t (theoretically) arrest people for being irritating.
Nic (120c94) — 6/9/2025 @ 7:41 pmAd hominem in lieu of addressing an argument by an expert.
There’s my favorite word: expert! All bow to the infallibility of the expert! Remember how right the “experts” were about COVID lockdowns? Remember their unassailable plans for inflation? Remember how they’ve totally rocked out on foreign policy for the past three generations?
JVW (4e1a52) — 6/9/2025 @ 7:41 pmDid anyone ask for that to happen?
What the reporter noted was that this is a well informed crowd that keeps their activities at the edge of the law.
It is just a push pin on the information cork board.
BuDuh (c1ecb3) — 6/9/2025 @ 7:45 pmMay want to double check that.
BuDuh (c1ecb3) — 6/9/2025 @ 7:48 pmhttps://x.com/BillMelugin_/status/1932268559142658281#m
Video at link
BuDuh (c1ecb3) — 6/9/2025 @ 7:51 pmLooks like street fighting in austin and dallas has broken out. 73 million democrats have been having to take what trump is dishing out now they have a chance to fight back with democrat leadership showing up for a change! Polls don’t are irrelevant as democrats who ambivalent on immigration now feel the enemy of my enemy is my friend. We joined with u.s.sr. in world war II to defeat hitler. Any democrat who sides with trump is finished and they know it.
asset (0d90c0) — 6/9/2025 @ 7:52 pmDrama drama drama drama. Trump is worse than my jr. high students.
Nic (120c94) — 6/9/2025 @ 7:53 pm@BuDuh@101 They can probably arrest that one guy for setting off an illegal firework. As long as everyone else is obeying traffic laws, police wouldn’t be indicated, regardless of the flags.
Nic (120c94) — 6/9/2025 @ 7:57 pmOk. Thanks, Nic.
BuDuh (c1ecb3) — 6/9/2025 @ 8:00 pmDrama drama drama drama. Trump is worse than my jr. high students.
I do not doubt for one moment that this is absolutely true.
JVW (4e1a52) — 6/9/2025 @ 8:08 pmCNN’s Harry Enten Says Trump’s Approval Rating On Immigration Has Surged ‘Like A Rocket’
lloyd (d5930d) — 6/9/2025 @ 8:17 pmMore National Guard troops to LA:
Rip Murdock (53faf1) — 6/9/2025 @ 8:17 pmU.S. Senator John Fetterman
@SenFettermanPA
I unapologetically stand for free speech, peaceful demonstrations, and immigration—but this is not that.
This is anarchy and true chaos.
My party loses the moral high ground when we refuse to condemn setting cars on fire, destroying buildings, and assaulting law enforcement.
lloyd (d5930d) — 6/9/2025 @ 8:20 pm@107 trump isn’t running for re-election. Many voters who oppose illegal immigration still hate trump. Fetterman will have an interesting primary if he runs for re-election.
asset (0d90c0) — 6/9/2025 @ 8:25 pmThis is good news for the students Nic doesn’t like. Maybe society is a better judge.
BuDuh (c1ecb3) — 6/9/2025 @ 8:26 pmRelated :
The Pentagon was scrambling Monday to establish rules to guide U.S. Marines who could be faced with the rare and difficult prospect of using force against citizens on American soil, now that the Trump administration is deploying active duty troops to the immigration raid protests in Los Angeles.
…………
The forces have been trained in deescalation, crowd control and standing rules for the use of force, Northern Command said.
…………
The Marines are highly trained in combat and crisis response, with time in conflict zones like Syria and Afghanistan. But that is starkly different from the role they will face now: They could potentially be hit by protesters carrying gas canisters and have to quickly decide how to respond or face decisions about protecting an immigration enforcement agent from crowds.
##########
You don’t “send in the Marines” for crowd control.
Rip Murdock (53faf1) — 6/9/2025 @ 8:27 pmPost 112, with the exception of the italicized portion, should have been blockquoted.
Rip Murdock (53faf1) — 6/9/2025 @ 8:28 pmFetterman may not live until his next primary.
Rip Murdock (53faf1) — 6/9/2025 @ 8:30 pmIt certainly goes against Hegseth’s “warrior ethos.”
Rip Murdock (53faf1) — 6/9/2025 @ 8:43 pm@BuDuh@111 who says I don’t like my students?
Nic (120c94) — 6/9/2025 @ 9:07 pm@16
Wrong.
Didn’t care how pretty or not this is… only that it gets done.
Want to START with “murderers, rapists and mental patients”, but also the rest at some point.
whembly (9f5a46) — 6/9/2025 @ 9:17 pm@28
This.
But critics are demanding that these aliens must get a ruling in front of an “impartial judge”.
What judge? The immigration courts, or the full circuit?
whembly (9f5a46) — 6/9/2025 @ 9:19 pm@95
Ah, the ol’ Appeal to Authority gambit…
I see you homie.
whembly (9f5a46) — 6/9/2025 @ 9:26 pmWhat is the point of getting rid of the adults if you don’t get rid of the children? Wannsee conference jan. 1942. They will run out of easy to catch undesirables and start going into the schools. Paster niemoller said it best. Will you allow them to take the children?
asset (0d90c0) — 6/9/2025 @ 9:43 pmDementia cover-up, Day 140:
Trump was asked, “What crime has Governor Newsom committed?”
His response:
“What crime has he committed? I think his primary crime is running for governor because he’s done such a bad job.”
Sitting governors are now subject to arrest for the crime of running for office.
Dave (f91167) — 6/9/2025 @ 10:06 pmYou don’t “send in the Marines” for crowd control.
No, you don’t. But are they?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/9/2025 @ 10:40 pm8 usc 1324(a)(1)(A)
Email from Mike Bonin, former LA city councilman:
But don’t interfere, that would be wrong.
These people are playing with fire.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/9/2025 @ 10:50 pmAny democrat who sides with trump is finished and they know it.
So is any democrat who sides with rioters and/or illegal immigrants.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/9/2025 @ 10:55 pmIt should be noted that the primary legislative goal in passing the Posse Comitatus Act in 1878 was to mark the end of Reconstruction. The immediate effect was to prevent the Army being used to combat the Klan.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/9/2025 @ 11:00 pm@124 Really? you don’t know democrat primary voters. Cori Bush and Jamaal Bowman only lost to aipac money because of oct. 6 attack and democrats luke warm (at best) about biden. 2026 will be 2018/2006 not 2024.
asset (0d90c0) — 6/9/2025 @ 11:05 pmWe will see which cities join La tomorrow. Austin and Dallas have tonight.
asset (0d90c0) — 6/9/2025 @ 11:07 pmWhat you keep missing, like you did last time, is that the arguments are presented, so you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Paul Montagu (295799) — 6/10/2025 @ 5:59 amPut aside “by an expert”, you’re still engaging in an ad hom in lieu of addressing his argument.
Paul Montagu (295799) — 6/10/2025 @ 6:06 amHis argument…
Hence my comment about “expansive language” and questionable legality.
Paul Montagu (295799) — 6/10/2025 @ 6:37 amHeh. “the elves are leaving middle earth”
Paul Montagu (295799) — 6/10/2025 @ 7:24 amAllow me to help with your “or” again.
There are two independent clauses.
OR
If it is a protest “that directly inhibit the execution of the laws” then it isn’t peaceful.
This isn’t hard.
BuDuh (c1ecb3) — 6/10/2025 @ 7:28 am@128
lol…no.
You don’t get to present another’s arguments and act like “I’m right”.
whembly (9f5a46) — 6/10/2025 @ 7:32 am@Paul Montagu, see BuDuh @132.
If you don’t address that, then you’re just regurgitating and trying to win the argument instead of having an honest debate.
whembly (9f5a46) — 6/10/2025 @ 7:34 amYou’ve made it clear you have no sense of humor.
You do know that’s why the left used lawfare against Trump, right?
NJRob (eb56c3) — 6/10/2025 @ 7:43 amIt’s clear these violent protestors are being organized and supported monetarily behind the scenes. Time to follow the money and go after the organizers on RICO charges.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 6/10/2025 @ 7:45 amDementia cover-up, Day 141:
“…And when push comes to shove,
I will send a fully-armed battalion to remind you of my love!”
– Our previous mad King
Dave (f91167) — 6/10/2025 @ 8:03 amWeird.
BuDuh (c1ecb3) — 6/10/2025 @ 8:09 amTrump DHS Lists More Criminal Illegals It Nabbed In LA Raids
lloyd (bd70ac) — 6/10/2025 @ 8:15 am113 Dems Vote Against Resolution Denouncing Antisemitism, Supporting ICE
Evans is a former LEO and Iraq war veteran.
lloyd (bd70ac) — 6/10/2025 @ 8:21 am@124 Really? you don’t know democrat primary voters.
Primaries elect no one. The further the Democrats move away from the popular center (where most of the voters are) the worse their general election prospects will be. Same for the Trump Party, of course, but Trump seems a bit more attuned to that.
Sure, Maxine Waters could win even if she joined the Communist Party (and MTG could win her seat wearing a Klan hood) but there are only so many seats like that.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/10/2025 @ 9:31 amIf we someday learn the Governor or Mayor told the police or Sheriff not to respond, that matters. Do we already know that?
Some things don’t have to be said. The LAPD chief knows that assisting ICE will create enemies in the mayor’s office and on the city council. He will at least hesitate. He knows better than to ask the mayor, as the response will be completely hedged, but the mayor has said many things, none of which support ICE.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/10/2025 @ 9:35 amThere’s enough expansive language to question its legality, such as using National Guard even for protests.
And enough to support it, too. Perhaps we need to stop and allow the courts do decide. Shouldn’t take more than a couple of years.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/10/2025 @ 9:37 amAll of which was protected by the First Amendment.
Rip Murdock (86d01c) — 6/10/2025 @ 9:41 amI despise Trump.
I despise California government.
“It’s a pity they cannot both lose.”
So, I have to look at what they are fighting over, and it’s the federal government’s right to deport unlawful residents versus the state’s right to nullify federal law.
Decided 1833 in favor of federal law. I hope that Trump crushes the insurrection.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/10/2025 @ 9:43 amAnd would contravene a nearly 50 year old state law.
Rip Murdock (86d01c) — 6/10/2025 @ 9:43 amAll of which was protected by the First Amendment.
Right up to the point where they say “Run, it’s ICE” where their speech is no longer lawful.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/10/2025 @ 9:44 amAnd would contravene a nearly 50 year old state law.
This is no longer about commandeering, but about nullification.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/10/2025 @ 9:45 amNo, federal authorities are free to enforce immigration law in California.
Rip Murdock (86d01c) — 6/10/2025 @ 9:54 amEvans is a former LEO and Iraq war veteran.
Evans is in a R+0 district. He beat the incumbent Democrat by 1%. No matter what he did in office, he would be a DNC target in 2026.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/10/2025 @ 10:00 amCalifornia is not asserting a right to nullify federal immigration law. It is asserting its right not to cooperate in its enforcement.
Rip Murdock (86d01c) — 6/10/2025 @ 10:01 amThat is also protected speech; it becomes criminal when someone actively hides an illegal immigrant from ICE.
Rip Murdock (86d01c) — 6/10/2025 @ 10:03 amNo, federal authorities are free to enforce immigration law in California.
Apparently not.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/10/2025 @ 10:04 amArtI.S9.C1.1 is limited to the slave trade, and is a historical nullity.
The language is far broader than that, as is the end date of the prohibition. They could have said “slaves” but they did not. In any event, the Congress has repeatedly asserted its power to regulate immigration. You may punt and claim it’s some other provision, but that’s just sophistry, much like the “substantive due process” invention is used to get around decisions that nullified the 14th Amendment’s “privileges or immunities” language.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/10/2025 @ 10:10 amThat is also protected speech; it becomes criminal when someone actively hides an illegal immigrant from ICE.
The law includes “attempts to conceal, harbor, or shield from detection” as criminal acts, and warning someone that the cops are coming is an attempt to shield them from detection.
It could also be called “obstruction.” Question: if you warn your neighbor, the bank robber, that the FBI is setting up down the street, is that just free speech?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/10/2025 @ 10:13 amFortunately, the crisis/insurrection/invasion/rebellion/emergency that required sending active duty marines against civilians was not serious enough for Trump to put off his attendance at a UFC fight on Saturday night…
Dave (238214) — 6/10/2025 @ 10:18 amArtI.S9.C1.1 is limited to the slave trade, and is a historical nullity.
By “mistake” I mean this:
If the Congress had no inherent power to prohibit the “importation of such persons” (etc) then it would have been a mistake to include this nullity. It’s inclusion accepts that Congress did have that power, and there is no reason to claim that it was limited to the importation of the enslaved.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/10/2025 @ 10:18 amsending active duty marines against civilians
Could you please show where the Marines are being sent against civilians? Do you view embassy Marine guards as being deployed against foreigners?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/10/2025 @ 10:20 amIt’s not my claim, it’s what the Supreme Court has said since the late 19th century:
Paragraph breaks added.
As far as I know (correct me if I am wrong) the Supreme Court has never cited ArtI.S9.C1.1 as a source of Congress’s power over immigration.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/10/2025 @ 10:27 amWhile it’s probably overkill, I see no inherent problem with Marines protecting Federal buildings and courthouses in the face of violent mobs. As has been pointed out, the feds cannot compel the LAPD to protect federal property and may have diminished confidence that they will.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/10/2025 @ 10:28 amAs far as I know (correct me if I am wrong) the Supreme Court has never cited ArtI.S9.C1.1 as a source of Congress’s power over immigration.
But without this “inherent sovereign power” the 1808 clause makes no sense. Whether you cite it as a source, or find it as empowered by a deeper source, matters little. The existence of the clause makes clear that an acknowledged power of Congress was embargoed until after a certain date.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/10/2025 @ 10:33 amThe number of illegal immigrants detained in Los Angeles hasn’t been released by ICE, but reportedly some have already been deported. So ICE is enforcing federal law without the assistance of local law enforcement.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/10/2025 @ 10:38 amTrump suspends the Constitution in honor of his birthday parade:
Dave (0d2773) — 6/10/2025 @ 10:56 amBeing able to enforce the law sometimes is not the same thing as being “free to enforce.”
In Los Angeles, we have a situation where politically-connected groups are harassing, obstructing and otherwise interfering with federal police action. That the LAPD cannot be coerced into preventing this interference may be true, but that LAPD inaction is hard to distinguish from state support of the interference.
In any event, the disinclination of the city and state to support the federal officers makes the injection of additional federal assets necessary and justified. The clauses that reference the inability of state and local government to maintain order should encompass their simple unwillingness.
Shorter: The anti-commandeering doctrine implies the right of federal forces to take the place of those recalcitrant local forces.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/10/2025 @ 10:58 amTrump suspends the Constitution in honor of his birthday parade
Just like the DNC suspended the Constitution for its last several conventions.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/10/2025 @ 10:59 amIf there were hostile military formations in LA, I think I would have heard about it.
Except for fully-armed battalions Trump has sent, there are nothing but civilians here.
Dave (0d2773) — 6/10/2025 @ 11:05 amWhat in the world are you talking about?
Dave (0d2773) — 6/10/2025 @ 11:10 amProtesters at various conventions were only allowed in “free speech zones” blocks away from the conventions and also away from access roads.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/10/2025 @ 11:15 amPeople can protest the idiotic parade, just not along the parade route.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/10/2025 @ 11:15 amExcept for fully-armed battalions Trump has sent, there are nothing but civilians here.
So, our Marines at our embassy in Canada are deployed against Canadian citizens?
The LAPD cannot be compelled to protect federal buildings, offices or agents. It is unreasonable (not that that will stop you) to say that the federal government cannot protect itself. The prohibition against using military force has to do with enforcing federal law. It does not prohibit protecting those that DO have the right to enforce federal law.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/10/2025 @ 11:20 amThere is nothing in the debates over the 1808 clause of the Constitution that suggests that it had anything more to do than with the importation of slaves; and that has been confirmed the fact the Supreme Court has not used Art I.S9.C1.1 as a source of Congressional power for anything.
To say the ” existence of the clause makes clear” is like finding a “right” unknown at the time of ratification within the penumbra of a Constitutional clause.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/10/2025 @ 11:27 amMarines in this situation aren’t glorified security guards.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/10/2025 @ 11:29 am.
Not only have Republican conventions done the same, private organizations cannot “suspend” the Constitution. Host cities regulate protesting around conventions, not the political party organizations.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/10/2025 @ 11:34 amThis is just like the rest of these bozos general issues. How you do something is as important as what you are doing. Ignoring the constitution because its inconvenient today doesn’t sound like a democratic thing, much less an American thing.
Colonel Klink (ret) (9dbb75) — 6/10/2025 @ 11:36 amLAPD can certainly protect federal law enforcement persons and facilities from violence, but the LAPD is prevented by state law from assisting ICE in direct enforcement of immigration law (such as participating in workplace raids), which is a federal responsibility.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/10/2025 @ 11:38 amAnd others. Silly attempt at a parallel, since military embassy guards are protecting a tiny enclave of sovereignty against foreigners. That’s what the military is supposed to be used for.
DHS employs 80,000 civilian police officers across its agencies.
Deploying the military against a hundred or so violent protesters is a transparent attempt at provocation, just like sending a SWAT team in tactical gear to roust day-laborers at Home Depot.
It’s all theater, produced and directed by Stephen Miller to appease his audience of one, who is very unhappy that they haven’t managed to match Biden’s deportation numbers yet.
Dave (0d2773) — 6/10/2025 @ 11:54 amNon-pay walled link to the WSJ story.
Dave (0d2773) — 6/10/2025 @ 12:06 pmMore from Nichols’ camp.
BuDuh (c1ecb3) — 6/10/2025 @ 12:15 pmProvocation is being done by those throwing molotov cocktails and rocks, burning cars, smashing windows and police vehicles.
It’s not bringing in the defense to protect our citizens from harm.
Try and keep Dave.
NJRob (875cae) — 6/10/2025 @ 12:17 pmOne city council aide has been arrested for throwing rocks from an overpass onto officers dealing with a on-freeway demonstration. Picture of similar
I wonder if the governor will pardon those arrested during this peaceful demonstration.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/10/2025 @ 12:51 pmCity council aide (and daughter of a city councilman) arrested for assaulting police.
The city controller questioned payment for LAPD actions protecting ICE officers.
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2025-06-09/jurado-staffer-arrested-at-downtown-protest-placed-on-unpaid-leave
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/10/2025 @ 12:59 pmApparently, keeping order in the vicinity of ICE enforcement actions is not something the city wants to do.
Complaining about the feds protecting their own seems hypocritical.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/10/2025 @ 1:01 pmPut aside “by an expert”, you’re still engaging in an ad hom in lieu of addressing his argument.
No, I am not. I am dismissing his argument because I think Andy McCarthy has the better one. I read what you linked to (even though it took me into the ideological sewer that is Bluesky), was thoroughly unimpressed with what he wrote, and that’s that. I do not owe every intellectual flight of fancy on Bluesky a 500-word rebuttal any more than I owe every piece on nonsense on Truth Social the same. But as I said, it’s no trick to find a left-wing lawyer to make any old argument that fits the ideology. Witness the embarrassing musings of Sonia Sotomayor.
JVW (4e1a52) — 6/10/2025 @ 1:45 pm“The city” is not some monolithic, top-down authoritarian personality cult operating under the Fuhrerprinzip, like the federal government.
The controller is independently elected and does not speak for “the city”.
Dave (238214) — 6/10/2025 @ 1:49 pmProbably not, usually these charges are dropped for lack of evidence by the city attorney (if misdemeanors) or the district attorney (felonies). Evidence needs to be more than the say so the arresting officer.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/10/2025 @ 2:39 pmThe drone Kirsti Noem was requesting from the Defense Dept.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/10/2025 @ 2:46 pmTerry Moran has been fired by ABC News.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/10/2025 @ 2:50 pmEvidence needs to be more than the say so the arresting officer.
Really? Are officers in such disrepute that their word is no good? “Your Honor, I saw the defendant with my own two eyes drop a rock from the overpass” is insufficient? How many officers are charged with perjury in Los Angeles? They aren’t all Mark Fuhrman.
And the D.A. has said that he intends to charge those arrested for assaulting officers. Usually a felony. Those assaulting federal officers will get a different venue.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/10/2025 @ 4:35 pmThe controller is independently elected and does not speak for “the city”.
He speaks for the city’s checkbook though, and questioning the LAPD’s expenditures protecting federal agents suggests pretty strongly to the LAPD that they should not.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/10/2025 @ 4:38 pmConvictions need to be beyond a reasonable doubt, so I would think there would need to be supporting evidence of some sort.
The question should how many get away with “testilying”. Probably more than those who get convicted of perjury.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/10/2025 @ 4:57 pmTrust but verify.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/10/2025 @ 5:01 pmMaybe you should’ve said that upfront and saved me from wasting my time. Instead, you went with this, which was pure ad hominem.
Paul Montagu (295799) — 6/10/2025 @ 5:54 pmCity council members demand that LAPD “warn” community about impending ICE raids.
Kevin M (10c195) — 6/10/2025 @ 5:55 pmSome paragraphs above are out of order. The two before the ellipsis should be first.
Kevin M (10c195) — 6/10/2025 @ 5:58 pmSo, the city council president regards ICE as an illegitimate agency and she demands the LAPD obstruct them.
And Trump smiles.
Kevin M (10c195) — 6/10/2025 @ 6:00 pmMaybe you should have watched this before you wasted your own time.
BuDuh (c85533) — 6/10/2025 @ 6:03 pmThat itself is dishonest debate, whembly. “Acts of violence” aren’t equivalent to “rebellion”. It’s a bogus equivalency. In a Venn Diagram, “rebellion” would be a tiny circle inside an immensely larger “acts of violence” circle.
Paul Montagu (295799) — 6/10/2025 @ 6:06 pmCalling in the National Guard has historically been a last resort, not a first option like Trump did, which is why this is unprecedented, “Rebellion” is used in the US Code in the context of “insurrection”. Dana said, it’s pretty clear what Trump is up to.
I’m good, BuDuh.
Paul Montagu (295799) — 6/10/2025 @ 6:07 pmInteresting…….
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/10/2025 @ 6:11 pmI just read you 6:06. Yeesh. Maybe you should take a peek at my link Paul.
BuDuh (c85533) — 6/10/2025 @ 6:15 pmHere is the full quote from BluSky Expert(assuming you quoted him correctly):
The challenge Whembly presented to you was whether or not the author understands basic grammar and whether or not you willingly or unwillingly regurgitate nonsense. The dishonest debate starts with your topic shift at 6:06.
Does BluSky Expert understand conjunctions or not?
BuDuh (c85533) — 6/10/2025 @ 6:22 pmAbsofrigginlutely, some of them are complete scum bags just looking for an excuse.
We all know a loser who decided to be a cop and always were/wanted to be bullies. I’d say the percentage of bad actors is probably slightly skewed towards the protesters at night being much bigger scumbags, but during the day, not so much. They’re supposed to be better.
Plus, NG gets a tiny bit of training on crowd control, the marines being deployed a bit more, but that’s not the typical training that you get, less than lethal is less than likely to exist for them, it’s clubs and riot shields…M27. They are not law enforcement, the NG is/can in limited instances respond, but not under title 10 as referenced in the order.
But why worry about legal and constitutional when it’s more fun to burn it all down, much more of a threat to America than the immigrants.
Colonel Klink (ret) (9dbb75) — 6/10/2025 @ 6:27 pmThe mayor called a curfew tonight from 8pm to 6am.
BuDuh (c85533) — 6/10/2025 @ 6:32 pmDude, you literally made a false claim then, and it’s still false now.
Paul Montagu (295799) — 6/10/2025 @ 6:33 pmBut I have to say, these rioters are very violent.
Colonel Klink (ret) (9dbb75) — 6/10/2025 @ 6:34 pmhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9zulXBpCjoY&pp=0gcJCdgAo7VqN5tD
BuDuh (c85533) — 6/10/2025 @ 7:44 pmAs Catoggio noted…
Why add 700 Marines and 2,000 additional National Guard when Trump himself admitted the situation was calming down, and then took credit for saving LA from being obliterated? Catoggio also linked to the WSJ piece on the new cruelties and lawlessness added by Stephen Miller.
BTW, I won’t be surprised if Democrats (and Newsom and Bass) lose even more ground politically, deservedly, for not swiftly condemning the rioting and violence vociferously enough. If this Trump trial balloon doesn’t get politically dinged too badly, we may see federal troop deployments to other Democrat-run cities.
Paul Montagu (295799) — 6/10/2025 @ 8:11 pmwe all know how Democrat mayors protect their cities. Portland’s let mobs attack federal buildings, and another let Minneapolis burn. Better that than call in the Guard early, right?
Trump was supposed to do the “right” thing according to someone named Frum, who may be almost as old as one of those redwoods you drive around.
Trump was supposed to let US citizens lose life and property for days, while waiting to see if another Blue City Democrat mayor would do the right thing: a mayor that pruned her police department, gave unions a raise, funded homeless boondoggles, and appointed a deputy mayor under indictment for a bomb threat. Then went on a foreign junket before fire season, came back and fired the Fire Chief for the bureaucratic gaucherie of being reasonably competent, and seemingly telling the truth in public.
And sure enough, LA’s Mayor spent the first few days saying the problem wasn’t the mostly peaceful Waymo torchers. It was federal agents trying to enforce federal law. Like in the 1960’s the feds were “outside agitators.”
So we all know what LA would look like if the Guard had not been called in early by that Bumptious Hotelier.
Indeed, multiple burned cars, looted shops, a sushi place, and officers hit with rocks later, and with LA’s ability to competently host even a chess match in doubt, much less the ’28 Olympics, she finally called a curfew. Because LAPD was overwhelmed and at least Trump’s NG troops will help protect federal facilities.
But yeah: letting more shops be looted would have been the “right” thing to do, per some here. Because it wouldn’t inconvenience anyone here. No one in NY would have to obsess over Trump acting like “a dictator!” It would make David Frum breathe easier, and few things are more vital than impressing a former Bush speechwriter who now writes for the Atlantic. With those heavy hitting, real-world qualifications, who can gainsay him?
And letting LA burn so as not to worry the “Trump is a dictator” types would have been so gallant! So revanche! So anti-Trump! “Look-our people were so upset by ICE they burned down the city!”
But some people just do what’s right: like Ike. he didn’t wait for marchers be injured in Alabama years ago, before federalizing the Guard. He even let them carry unsheathed bayonets on their rifles. Provocative! Trump didn’t wait for LA to burn. Not after seeing Portland, Minneapolis etc. So shop owners and homeowners (and a lot of insurers) can breathe easier. But who cares about them? They don’t write for the Atlantic!
But carry on with the Minute of Hate for the Orange Man!
Harcourt Fenton Mudd (630e5f) — 6/10/2025 @ 9:11 pmWell, you could always opt to be favorable to following the law and constitution.
That, or fluckit, burn it all down, who’s got the marshmallows? America was founded by Christopher Columbus on the Mayflower and all that…right? We aren’t really using that constitution, just put it back in the basement.
Colonel Klink (ret) (9dbb75) — 6/10/2025 @ 9:22 pmI think defacing federal buildings and assaulting cops should be a crime…regardless of whose doing it. I assume sH will be pardoning all of these people too.
Colonel Klink (ret) (9dbb75) — 6/10/2025 @ 9:28 pmMaybe you should’ve said that upfront and saved me from wasting my time.
Somehow I don’t think there is much I can do to keep you from wasting your time, Paul.
JVW (4e1a52) — 6/10/2025 @ 10:11 pmAnd I stand 100% behind that comment that so seems to offend you.
JVW (4e1a52) — 6/10/2025 @ 10:13 pmAnd I stand 100% behind that comment that so seems to offend you.
JVW (4e1a52) — 6/10/2025 @ 10:13 pmI think maybe they’re are quite a few attorney’s that need to retake 1st year ConLaw, because there are few clues had amongst the MAGArazzi.
Colonel Klink (ret) (9dbb75) — 6/10/2025 @ 11:11 pm@136 If its so clear where is your evidence? Even trump’s agent provocateurs haven’t tried yet or even sent an agent to shoot at NG like fbi sent terry norman to shoot at guard at kent state. Draft dogger bone spurs has no evidence either.
asset (75c1aa) — 6/11/2025 @ 12:56 amGov. newsom is term limited so in 2026 someone new will be elected. Do you think a corporate establishment donor class stooge like newsom who wants to work with trump so his donors keep their tax cuts or a real lefty who wants to fight not only trump ‘but corporate stooges? 160 years ago the fugitive slave act allowed slave holders to seize women and children and take them away until Capt. John Brown first at osawatomie kansas then harpers ferry virginia intervened The latter is more likely to be elected in california.
asset (75c1aa) — 6/11/2025 @ 1:12 amFederal agents show up at lilian and russel elementary schools and demand to see illegal alien first graders. LA 7. Principals and teachers block entrance to school as children run and hide.
asset (75c1aa) — 6/11/2025 @ 3:06 amWell said as usual.
NJRob (875cae) — 6/11/2025 @ 4:13 amNo, the word is disappointed that you went, for a guy that Patterico entrusted with the keys to the front page.
Paul Montagu (f2c80c) — 6/11/2025 @ 4:18 am…went there,
Paul Montagu (f2c80c) — 6/11/2025 @ 4:18 amHopefully Nichols has Mexico on speed-dial.
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/mexican-senate-president-highlights-western-us-was-once-mexico-while-denouncing
BuDuh (c85533) — 6/11/2025 @ 6:43 am@205
What false claim Paul?
whembly (9f5a46) — 6/11/2025 @ 6:45 amhttps://x.com/upholdreality/status/1932151480250974289
Mexican leadership makes it clear the goal is to take the Sputhwest United States.
So it’s an invasion after all.
NJRob (ab0c08) — 6/11/2025 @ 7:27 amThe one where you falsely claimed that I was employing an ad hominem when I clearly linked to Lincicome’s argument, and it was lengthy. As Oxford defines the term, an ad hom is “(an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.”
Regarding Andy McCarthy, the following is the part I found gratuitous…
…where he blames Democrats’ “overwrought response”, where “no security personnel were killed”, as an excuse to avoid discussing whether the crimes in LA were a “rebellion”. The subject of what is an actual rebellion should be addressed.
Paul Montagu (f2c80c) — 6/11/2025 @ 7:59 amThe irony is that Trump didn’t lift a finger to call the National Guard on J6, but his deployment last weekend was a first option instead of a last resort.
I do not have the blusky app so I have no idea who the “expert” is that you quoted, Paul. Is it Lincicome that doesn’t understand conjunctions and independent clauses, or was the quote you posted from someone else?
BuDuh (853393) — 6/11/2025 @ 8:25 amSurprise, surprise: Jim Geraghty catches the over-matched Mayor of Los Angeles either in blissful ignorance or purposefully lying (bolded emphasis and links in original):
Just when you would have thought that Karen Bass couldn’t possibly wreck her reputation any further, she finds a way to surprise you.
JVW (4e1a52) — 6/11/2025 @ 8:25 amBingo. I have watched a great many Los Angeles based live “news” YouTubes. Almost every major station there presented what happened as a neighborhood “raid.”
If “raid” was the trigger word for a drinking game, no one would have survived Friday night, let alone the next several days. This was a man-made crisis that rallied the “unsatisfied-to-not-confront-law-enforcement.”[hat tip to Nichols]
BuDuh (853393) — 6/11/2025 @ 8:36 amThese riots are getting out of hand. Definitely need the Marines.
Colonel Klink (ret) (9dbb75) — 6/11/2025 @ 8:39 amColonel Klink (ret) (9dbb75) — 6/10/2025 @ 6:27 pm
Cop-hater self-identifies
Kevin M (10c195) — 6/11/2025 @ 8:53 amWhy add 700 Marines and 2,000 additional National Guard when Trump himself admitted the situation was calming down
I see no evidence of that. There’s a curfew in effect. The LA City Council is pillorying the LAPD Chief for not leaving the ICE agents to the mercies of the mob. The city controller is suggesting that the LAPD might suffer funding problems. The LA Chamber of Commerce is demanding that ICE enforcement actions stop, and seems unable to recognize that not all immigrants are legally present.
The city and county of Los Angeles are refusing to admit federal authority over immigration and using every non-violent method to nullify federal law, and countenancing some violent action against federal agents attempting to enforce that law.
This is not over by a long shot. Trump and the federal government are not likely to accept this attempt at nullification. The situation is going to continue to escalate.
Kevin M (10c195) — 6/11/2025 @ 9:05 amI am going to be downtown in LA at a conference next week. Wish me luck.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 6/11/2025 @ 9:09 amOdd fact: Despite being an Hispanic-plurality (and near majority) state, there is no day-labor available at Home Depots here in NM.
Most Hispanics in the state are multi-generation Americans, many dating back to the Mexican Cession. They are not really all that thrilled by desperate people from the south undercutting their labor rates or making their neighborhoods unsafe.
Probably why Trump’s approval rates are highest among Hispanics.
Kevin M (10c195) — 6/11/2025 @ 9:13 amI am going to be downtown in LA at a conference next week. Wish me luck.
If you should happen to try the subway, let me know if it is still a mobile homeless shelter. They used to call Daley’s Chicago “the city that works.” Mayor Bass’s Los Angeles is not that.
Kevin M (10c195) — 6/11/2025 @ 9:15 amI find it ironic that people who support illegal immigration (or carry water for those that do) are so big on the Rule of Law when it comes to cleaning up the mess they’ve crated.
Kevin M (10c195) — 6/11/2025 @ 9:16 amI do not have the blusky app
What conservative would? The NYT and WaPo are as far as most of us would go, even us in #NeverTrump.
Also, does being #NeverTrump mean that you not only opposed his nomination and election, but that you reflexively oppose anything he does?
Kevin M (10c195) — 6/11/2025 @ 9:19 amActually the opposite is true. They concede that the federal government has authority over immigration enforcement, which is why they say that local law enforcement shouldn’t need to participate in such enforcement actions.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/11/2025 @ 9:25 amhttps://patterico.com/2025/06/09/its-pretty-clear-what-trump-is-up-to/#comment-2878025
BuDuh (de9e73) — 6/11/2025 @ 9:27 amShould those who hire day laborers (without checking their immigration status) be prosecuted for hiring day laborers who hang around, for example, Home Depots?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/11/2025 @ 9:30 amSure, bad cop hater. It’s telling that it’s always stupid Hitler’s fanbois, ya voted for him, only support the bad cops.
Colonel Klink (ret) (9dbb75) — 6/11/2025 @ 9:31 amMy West Texas Hispanic population (which is the majority now) feels the same way, Kevin.
Rip, they are prosecuted where I live. One of the biggest landscapers/nursery farmers in the region was hiring illegal immigrants and ended up in federal prison.
DRJ (a84ee2) — 6/11/2025 @ 9:50 amThe Marines are there to back up the National Guard in case they get cold feet.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/11/2025 @ 9:54 amHere in Cincy, there have been a bunch of ICE raids on landscaping companies. Evans Landscaping got hammered, but the immigration violations were just a cherry on the top of massive theft/money laundering by the owner, the illegals were basically slave labor. Some Chinese Auto Glass company that bought the old GM Truck&Bus in Dayton got busted with chained Chinese workers in all of these suburban houses with 30 people or so in each.
The workers were the biggest losers in these deals, most business owners wouldn’t be doing quite so much crime, so would shrug their shoulders and say E-Verify failed, because it is a POS.
Colonel Klink (ret) (9dbb75) — 6/11/2025 @ 9:59 amNot my point. Should your average citizen who needs to have help moving or laying bricks be prosecuted for hiring illegals hanging out in front of a Home Depot? Doing so certainly encourages them to be there, but a few prosecutions would certainly send a message.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/11/2025 @ 9:59 amEntitled anti-ICE protesters block NYC woman from getting to work as LA chaos spreads
I’d say the odds these protesters are responsible parents, or parents at all, and have productive jobs are pretty slim. Lots of pent up anger at those who do.
lloyd (5149fc) — 6/11/2025 @ 10:07 amI’m sure they’re blocking ambulances as well.
lloyd (5149fc) — 6/11/2025 @ 10:09 am“I am going to be downtown in LA at a conference next week. Wish me luck.”
Probably leave your Mexican flag at home….bring a good pair of sneakers
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 6/11/2025 @ 10:11 amLOL
Been to downtown LA much?
lloyd (5149fc) — 6/11/2025 @ 10:15 amNichols has to be kicking himself that he didn’t shower the “unsatisfied” New Yorkers with his wisdom.
BuDuh (de9e73) — 6/11/2025 @ 10:20 amNichols called ICE “thugs” in his piece that got lauded here. That’s Nevertrump populism.
lloyd (5149fc) — 6/11/2025 @ 10:27 amActually the opposite is true. They concede that the federal government has authority over immigration enforcement, which is why they say that local law enforcement shouldn’t need to participate in such enforcement actions.
You need to read the LA Times, which ahs excellent coverage of this. Many city officials view ICE raids as noxious, ICE itself as the illegitimate, and see attacks on ICE agents as “what they deserve.” The LAPD Chief was yelled at (my members) in the city council meeting for keeping order near raids and for not exposing upcoming raids.
The Chamber of Commerce, that supposedly conservative business group, defends ALL “immigrants” as a necessary part of the workforce. One does not refer to people as “illegal immigrants” in polite company in Los Angeles.
This kind of hostility to federal law is unlikely to be accepted by a guy who ran on the platform of enforcing it. Not should it be.
Kevin M (10c195) — 6/11/2025 @ 10:51 amThat’s Nevertrump populism.
lloyd, an hearty GFY for that crap.
Kevin M (10c195) — 6/11/2025 @ 10:52 am‘How is this a peaceful protest? There’s nothing peaceful,’ the mother begs again, but the argumentative activist snappily hits back: ‘This is peace. This is peace.’
Drive forward, peacefully.
Kevin M (10c195) — 6/11/2025 @ 10:54 am@225
Clearly you have me mixed up with others you’ve been arguing with.
I never declared that you employed an ad hominem… I pointed out that you used an appeal to authority fallacy.
Its fine that you want to share another’s argument to buttress you position. We all do that.
What you have a bit of habit of doing, is acting like your sources are from experts and you won’t accept contravening arguments.
whembly (9f5a46) — 6/11/2025 @ 10:55 amNot my point. Should your average citizen who needs to have help moving or laying bricks be prosecuted for hiring illegals hanging out in front of a Home Depot?
Yes, because there are any number of legal venues for hiring day labor. THEY might not be all that picky about whom they front, but that’s on them, not the citizen.
Kevin M (10c195) — 6/11/2025 @ 10:56 am@236
Seems so, with some exceptions.
whembly (9f5a46) — 6/11/2025 @ 10:59 amTrue story:
A number of years ago I needed to rebuild the fence surrounding my front yard. I could have asked the (legal resident) guy who did my landscaping to do the fence, but my brother needed work, so I asked him.
Note that this brother used to be a carpenter, but got frozen out for not wanting to accept wage cuts and also not speaking Spanish. He was constantly complaining about the illegals and how they had wronged him. A clear Trump constituent.
So what did he do after he agreed on my set price? He went down to Home Deport and hired two guys at $5/hr to do the actual work, while he “supervised.”
Last work I had him do for me.
Kevin M (10c195) — 6/11/2025 @ 11:05 amThe city and state government owe their citizens a safe place to live and do business. From what I’ve seen LA/CA has the resources to do that and doesn’t need the USMC to come in and do their thing. But they need to do it and be making good faith efforts to best accomplish that. So far I don’t see compelling evidence that they’re not trying to do that. I also don’t see evidence they’re doing it well.
Sending in the Military is good politics for Trump, if bad for the county overall.
-If the city / state fail in their duty the extra resources are there.
-If the city / state competently execute their duties he’s better position to take credit for it.
-The fight over limited government isn’t important to very many ppl.
-The fight over escalation / militarization is red meat for his base, and his opposition FWIW.
-This changes the media story from things that weren’t going well to a story line that’s central to his movement.
-A significant part of his base seems to thirst to see the military used against their political opponents, Trump appears to share their desire.
So, good political move for him, not sure it’s a good policy move, but we will see.
Time123 (3522c4) — 6/11/2025 @ 11:16 amAttempted murder? Did the DOJ charge any J6 rioter with this? I have to imagine so.
BuDuh (de9e73) — 6/11/2025 @ 11:21 am> A significant part of his base seems to thirst to see the military used against their political opponents, Trump appears to share their desire.
Yes, and this is exactly the kind of abuse of power by the executive which the Constitution was *intended* to prevent.
But as a country we no longer care about political theory, we just care about sticking it to our enemies.
aphrael (818166) — 6/11/2025 @ 11:26 am@258
It depends on your views on federalism.
Do you want a robust state AND federal government?
If so, it’s a good policy move to signal to state officials that they cannot allow official federal acts be impeded. It signals to OTHER cities that another “Summer Riot” ala 2020 isn’t happening again.
If you want a robust state AND a weak federal government…such that, states can nullify/obstruct federal laws… well… this country went to war over that one.
whembly (9f5a46) — 6/11/2025 @ 11:29 am@260
Such poppycock theory.
No one has yet, articulated a reasonable analysis that Trump’s mobilization of the NG and military is an “abuse of power”.
whembly (9f5a46) — 6/11/2025 @ 11:32 amRIP lead Beach Boy singer, songwriter, musician, and record producer Brian Wilson (82).
Rip Murdock (86d01c) — 6/11/2025 @ 11:45 am> Gov. newsom is term limited so in 2026 someone new will be elected.
And all of the options kinda suck.
Among declared candidates, we have:
Xavier Becerra, who was not great as either AG or Sec HHS;
Eleni Kounalakis, the Lt. Governor who had no political or executive experience before being elected to that job (she’d been an ambassador to Hungary, a position which more or less was purchased for her by family members);
Antonio Villaraigosa, who wasn’t a great Mayor;
Katie Porter, who was a decent legislator but is *incredibly* left wing;
Toni Atkins, former president pro tem of the Senate and former speaker of the Assembly, who somewhat epitomizes the party establishment;
Chad Bianco, a Trumpist county sheriff who refused the covid vaccine and whose department has been under investigation by the state DoJ for misconduct in the running of the county jail;
Steve Hilton, a Trumpist Fox news commentator who was an advisor to David Cameron.
Potential additional candidates include Kamala Harris (eew), Caitlyn Jenner (eew), Richard Grenell (a Trumpist official), and Brian Dahle (a former Senate minority leader who was Newsom’s general election opponent in 2022 and who is, generally speaking, a pre-Trump California centrist conservative.
Aside from Atkins and Dahle i’d really rather *none of these people* be anywhere close to the Governor’s office.
aphrael (818166) — 6/11/2025 @ 11:45 am> No one has yet, articulated a reasonable analysis that Trump’s mobilization of the NG and military is an “abuse of power”.
Federalizing the guard and deploying it over the objection of the Governor is absolutely inconsistent with decade-old norms governing the use of the guard, and is *probably* a violation of federal law.
Deploying the Marines, inside the United States, in a situation where they are *expected* to come into contact with civilians, is clearly illegal and a violation of an incredibly important principle regarding the use of the military.
The job of the military is *not* to preserve order domestically, and if that becomes the job of the military, we lose an important bulwark against dictatorship.
aphrael (818166) — 6/11/2025 @ 11:48 amFurthermore, to the extent that a good chunk of Trump’s base actively *wants* the military to use force against protestors, and are doing things like *calling for the arrest of California’s governor*, it’s absolutely fair to claim that these people have openly endorsed using force against political opponents, and no longer believe in the very premise of Republican governance.
I understand that they are your allies, but it continues to astound me how you (and others like you) are completely blind to the danger here.
aphrael (818166) — 6/11/2025 @ 11:49 amYou couldn’t go wrong with Ric Grenell honestly.
But that’ll never happen, unless there’s way more mass deportations in CA, which I doubt will ever get to the “mass” part.
Democrat’s hold to power in CA is ensured by illegals voting in their election as there’s ZERO guardrails ensure only citizens to vote in that state.
whembly (9f5a46) — 6/11/2025 @ 11:50 am> Democrat’s hold to power in CA is ensured by illegals voting in their election as there’s ZERO guardrails ensure only citizens to vote in that state.
Given the difference in vote totals between Democrats and Republicans in statewide elections, you’re essentially arguing that 1/5 of the votes cast in a general election are cast by illegal immigrants.
Got anything to back that up?
Republican positions on (a) environmental issues, (b) gay rights, (c) government spending and regulation, and (d) treatment of hispanic immigrants seriously alienated the California suburban voter *a quarter century ago* and they’ve responded by basically digging in and doubling down on the positions that alienated the suburban voter. The *brand* is toxic here, just like the Democrat brand is toxic in Texas.
aphrael (818166) — 6/11/2025 @ 12:08 pmhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xYc4DT18EJg&pp=ygUYYmVhY2ggYm95cyB3aXRob3V0IG11c2lj
BuDuh (de9e73) — 6/11/2025 @ 12:20 pm@265
Bruh… read some history, particulary George Wallace Jr.
Recent riots has destroyed federal building and the marines are there as a deterrent to prevent that from happening.
Incorrect. Their job is to protect the nations from foreign and domestic.
You shouldn’t tolerate any leadership of cities “giving rioters some space” to allow rioters run amonk.
If those leadership fail to act, the expectation should be for POTUS to step in.
This is not a “ploy” by POTUS to expand some dictatorial powers here… he’s literally defending the homeland.
whembly (9f5a46) — 6/11/2025 @ 12:21 pmFederalizing the guard to do what specifically?
BuDuh (de9e73) — 6/11/2025 @ 12:23 pm@266
Yeah aphrael, there’s a “good chunk” of Trump’s base that wants that, like there’s a good chunk of Democrats and Leftists who want Trump assassinated.
lloyd (5149fc) — 6/11/2025 @ 12:38 pm@268
Absolutely.
You don’t prove your citizenship/legal greencard residence when you vote in that state.
You only have to show that you live there.
California, more specifically the cities, are known as safe havens for illegal aliens.
Since California refuses to determine whether or not voters are allowed to vote, it is impossible to perform a retrospective review.
So…illegal aliens voting… who are they going to vote for?
Democrats who wants them there? Or Republicans who wants them deported?
You tell me.
Deport all the illegals from CA… and now the races will become much more competitive.
You also have to contend that GOP voters in CA don’t all turn out generally because of the belief that Democrats gamed the system against them (jungle primaries, etc…).
…and before you claim that I don’t know what I’m talking about, I have family in Fullerton, Oakland and Stockton, CA.
whembly (9f5a46) — 6/11/2025 @ 12:39 pmStruck a nerve.
lloyd (5149fc) — 6/11/2025 @ 12:39 pm> You don’t prove your citizenship/legal greencard residence when you vote in that state.
The jump from that to “clearly close to three million people are voting illegally and that’s why election outcomes are what they are” is enormous, and all you’ve got is speculation and the assumption that it *must* be so.
You’ve got nothing, here.
aphrael (818166) — 6/11/2025 @ 12:45 pm> he’s literally defending the homeland.
nonsense.
i was in los angeles last weekend (for an event for a friend, I get down there maybe half a dozen times a year). there was *nothing* going on in any of the parts of town I was in.
this is backed up by the los angeles subreddit, where most people are like “there’s nothing at all going on in my neighborhood” and “we have worse civil disorder whenever the dodgers win a major game.”
this isn’t like 1992.
*at worst* we’re talking about some protests that have gotten out of hand in a tiny number of neighborhoods.
it’s not in any way a threat to the country.
the *myth* of los angeles in flames is being deliberately concocted to drum up support for military action, but that’s all it is — a myth.
a myth which conservatives will fall for because it suits their prejudices.
aphrael (818166) — 6/11/2025 @ 12:49 pm> Federalizing the guard to do what specifically?
Formally? protect ICE agents.
*Realistically*? Intimidate protestors and create a climate where public discontent is repressed out of fear of military action.
aphrael (818166) — 6/11/2025 @ 12:49 pmActual evidence?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/11/2025 @ 12:55 pmThat’s not evidence; it’s at best speculation, if even that.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/11/2025 @ 12:56 pmMore likely to backstop the National Guard when the Guard chickens out.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/11/2025 @ 12:59 pmTo be fair to the other side, Rip Murdock @278, I think the argument is that the way California’s system works makes it impossible to develop evidence — and there’s something to that argument.
That said, I think that argument yields agnosticism and uncertainty and respect for the absence of data, not the assertion that two to three million votes are cast illegally every year.
(Whembly isn’t saying that in so many words, but he is saying that the reason Democrats win is votes by illegals, and Kamala’s margin of victory in 2024 was more than 3 million votes; Newsom’s margin of victory in 2022 was more than 2 million votes, as was Padilla’s … so asserting that votes by illegal immigrants are the reason for Democratic victories is asserting that illegal voting is happening on that kind of scale.)
aphrael (818166) — 6/11/2025 @ 12:59 pmaphrael,
I don’t live in California and can’t say whether these protests are nothing much or a big deal.
I know in my area, shutting down highways would be considered a very big deal.
I also think Trump was probably eager to use events in liberal states to push his narrative and this fit. Not unlike the way Rahm Emanuel (and maybe Winston Churchill) said never let a crisis go to waste.
DRJ (76e6c0) — 6/11/2025 @ 1:00 pmLike this?
BuDuh (de9e73) — 6/11/2025 @ 1:00 pmThank you. This confirms what I suspected.
BuDuh (de9e73) — 6/11/2025 @ 1:03 pm“Actual evidence?”
It’s an article of MAGA faith (yes another one) that Democrats can only win elections by cheating.
Davethulhu (468890) — 6/11/2025 @ 1:03 pm> I know in my area, shutting down highways would be considered a very big deal.
The eruption onto 101 was brief and was shut down successfully by local police. But … peaceful protests march onto freeways in California all of the time, it’s been part of protest culture here for decades.
The overwhelming majority of people dislike it but it’s hardly a threat to the state, let alone the country.
> I also think Trump was probably eager to use events in liberal states to push his narrative and this fit.
Absolutely. And it’s pretty clear the *point* to the narrative is to eventually allow the military to supplant normal governance in the liberal states.
aphrael (818166) — 6/11/2025 @ 1:03 pm@275
I would appreciate that you abstain from putting words in my mouth aphreal…
But I *do* have something. The black letter election law in your state.
You live in a state that gives illegal aliens a pathway to vote and the system is designed to make it impossible to validate.
whembly (9f5a46) — 6/11/2025 @ 1:07 pmJust like the myth of massive illegal immigrant voting is why Republicans don’t win in California. If that were true it doesn’t explain why Prop 36 (which repealed a decade of criminal justice “reform”) passed with over 2/3 of vote. Parenthetically, the “jungle primary” was approved by the voters.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/11/2025 @ 1:07 pmYou asserted that votes by illegals are the thing that keeps Democrats in power in the state.
Since the margin of victory in statewide elections is usually more than two million votes, asserting that votes by illegals are the thing keeping Democrats in power is identical to asserting that more than two million illegal votes are cast in every statewide general election.
I’m not putting words on your mouth, I’m explaining what would have to be true for the words you have stated to be true.
aphrael (a94394) — 6/11/2025 @ 1:10 pm🚨Oxymoron Alert! 🚨
BuDuh (de9e73) — 6/11/2025 @ 1:10 pm@276
My dude, you’re one person. You cannot make the statement with a straight face in the one of the most heavily, dense population center in the US. Of course you might be able to navigate on some portions of the cities and not see anything.
However, we have videos of violent riots and lootings.
There are stories that businesses are boarding up.
These kinds of thing snowballs and snowballs.
Wanna know why I’m animated against rioters and lootings?
I lived 10 minutes away from Ferguson MO when it blew up.
I lived it.
You have to nip it in the bud, with absolute prejudice and if you dont, you’re literally dancing with anarchy.
Wake me up when Trump activates an armored division.
whembly (9f5a46) — 6/11/2025 @ 1:13 pm@259 Buddha, AFAIK none of the violent scumbags from J6 were charged with attempted murder. Several were charged with assault, but other then stretching interfering with official proceedings the DOJ kept most of the charging conservative.
From what i can see this charge seems to be reasonable and I’m glad they brought it. (Reserve the right to change my mind if new facts emerge)
Time123 (3522c4) — 6/11/2025 @ 1:15 pm@289
Yes, I am asserting that votes from illegals is a net benefit for Democrats in power.
If they weren’t, they wouldn’t be fighting some damn hard to protect these illegal aliens.
It’s not about some altruistic view that we should allow these people to stay.
It’s about building a constituency to help Democrats stay in power.
It’s all about political power.
whembly (9f5a46) — 6/11/2025 @ 1:19 pm@292
The Biden DOJ absolutely did initially try to say that Officer Sicknick died because of the J6 riot. That had to walk it back in court because it was false. But the media absolutely ran with it for the longest time.
whembly (9f5a46) — 6/11/2025 @ 1:21 pmI don’t feel like digging up the research again, but that’s not universally the case. In some instances they’ve shown that letting the protest fizzle out, while taking steps to stop violence, is the most effective approval.
-OWS had an illegal tent city, winter did a good job ending that.
-The violent J6 mob was allowed to disperse, greatly increasing the burden on LEO to catch them. I think this was a better path forward than forcibly detaining everyone there.
-Many of the 2020 riots were made worse, more violent, more lawless, by the hamfisted efforts to restore order.
Contra evidence: CHAZ.
These things are sadly more complicated to best fix then “always / never do XYZ”
Time123 (3522c4) — 6/11/2025 @ 1:23 pm@294, But I don’t think they charged anyone with attempted Murder. Am I mistaken about that?
Time123 (3522c4) — 6/11/2025 @ 1:24 pmYou seem to be conflating “things said on TV” with “criminal charges”
Time123 (3522c4) — 6/11/2025 @ 1:25 pmOh @aphreal, LA downtown is under a curfew and more than 20+ businesses were looted.
That’s not a local protest gone bad… this is way more widespread and the local officials were slow to respond.
whembly (9f5a46) — 6/11/2025 @ 1:27 pm@297
No.
I made that distinction. I said DOJ was pressured to do so, but had to walk it back before they got to court.
*If* the DOJ could’ve make the case that Office Sicknick died from J6, they definitely would have made that indictment, and likely prevailed because of the favorable district.
whembly (9f5a46) — 6/11/2025 @ 1:29 pmWhembly, I can’t find anything to support your theory about sitnick. As far as I can tell no one was charged with attempted murder for things they did on Jan 6.
(To be fair there were ppl charged with attempted murder for things they did before and after but I don’t think that’s what Buduh was talking about)
Time123 (173f5d) — 6/11/2025 @ 1:40 pm@295
Every single one of these should’ve been cracked down.
No. I object to the idea that it’s better/safer to let it burn out.
I’ve been surrounded in my car on a freeway by an impromtu “protest”. (I don’t consider blocking freeways a “protest”, to me it’s an aggression)
We need to make a distinction between what is a violent riot and a peaceful protest.
whembly (9f5a46) — 6/11/2025 @ 1:41 pm@300
I feel like no one is reading my posts.
I didn’t say a J6er *was* charged with murder. I was saying that the media, publications, politicians advocated for it.
whembly (9f5a46) — 6/11/2025 @ 1:43 pmOh, sorry I misunderstood you. I’m sure many did while it was still reasonable to assume his death was caused by the injuries he suffered from Trumps supporters. As that became known to be false such advocacy died down.
Which is reapply. I’m happy the firebomb guy was charged with attempted murder, but will change that if information changes.
Time123 (173f5d) — 6/11/2025 @ 1:50 pmOof, serious typos in that last one.
Time123 (3522c4) — 6/11/2025 @ 1:55 pmNo one has yet, articulated a reasonable analysis that Trump’s mobilization of the NG and military is an “abuse of power”.
If it was clear, the district court would have issued a TRO. They didn’t. Maybe they will after arguments on Thursday.
Kevin M (10c195) — 6/11/2025 @ 1:56 pmIn all of our discussions on Jan 6 I don’t think I’ve ever seen you express any desire that LEO should have cracked down on them and used more force.
Time123 (3522c4) — 6/11/2025 @ 1:57 pm@305 Kevin for teh win.
Time123 (3522c4) — 6/11/2025 @ 1:58 pmIt’s been done, by Democrats, within living memory.
Only if they are enforcing federal law. As per the pro-Klan Posse Comitatus Act which made it illegal for the military to enforce civil rights laws against recalcitrant states (yet Eisenhower did exactly that).
Kevin M (10c195) — 6/11/2025 @ 2:00 pmAs will be a shock to many, the LA Times is actually covering this from all sides. Their coverage of city government’s infighting is unique. They are pretty much debunking much of the MSM’s glib recitation of the Left’s usual positions.
Kevin M (10c195) — 6/11/2025 @ 2:05 pmAll in all, I think that Trump’s callup of the Guard and the Marines was a mistake. He allowed his opponents to hide their misdeeds behind the “overreach” story. Instead, he should have done what LBJ did when civil rights workers were murdered in Mississippi — sent in 1000 FBI agents to turn over all the rocks.
Kevin M (10c195) — 6/11/2025 @ 2:07 pmaphrael (818166) — 6/11/2025 @ 12:08 pm
What he’s got is superficial logic, not evidence. There’s a lot of registration, because of massive voter registration drives, not actual voting. And if there were voting, there’d also be voting by fictitious persons and double voting. And driver’s licenses do not prove citizenship.
They argue it’s not toxic – those margins are all caused by illegally cast votes. (which supposedly could be easily prevented) Evidence? None. Only bad logic.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 6/11/2025 @ 2:15 pmKevin M (10c195) — 6/11/2025 @ 2:07 pm
I heard something about Pam Bondi saying they had arrested the instigator of the riots but I can’t find more. All I have is about individual protesters. Or this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDDotsyH5XA
It would be good, if true and the person was correctly charged.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 6/11/2025 @ 2:24 pm“Trump should have waited until people were murdered….”
BuDuh (de9e73) — 6/11/2025 @ 2:27 pmwhembly (9f5a46) — 6/11/2025 @ 12:39 pm
What do you mean? All names of people who voted are public record.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 6/11/2025 @ 2:28 pm@293 The past four years of open borders was a 2044 voter registration drive, not a 2024 one.
lloyd (5149fc) — 6/11/2025 @ 2:28 pmHarcourt Fenton Mudd (630e5f) — 6/10/2025 @ 9:11 pm
That was President Kennedy in 1963. Eisenhower as Little Rock Aransas in 1957, where the whole thing was ginned up in order for Faubus to break the 2 2-year term tradition or Arkansas governors.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 6/11/2025 @ 2:34 pm“Trump should have waited until people were murdered….”
Do me a favor and don’t put words in my mouth. I said nothing of the sort.
Kevin M (10c195) — 6/11/2025 @ 2:36 pmlloyd (5149fc) — 6/11/2025 @ 2:28 pm
m You think anyone plans that far ahead? And that the Republicans have no way of countering that with their own immigrants? They were getting the votes of legal Asian immigrants.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 6/11/2025 @ 2:36 pmIs this CNN?
lloyd (5149fc) — 6/11/2025 @ 2:36 pmAnd that the Republicans have no way of countering that with their own immigrants? They were getting the votes of legal Asian immigrants.
Trump’s getting 2 out of 3 HISPANIC votes.
Kevin M (10c195) — 6/11/2025 @ 2:39 pmBesides not wanting to be confused with illegal immigrants/phony “refugees”, legal immigrants have to deal with the immigration bureaucracy and are having their legitimate needs put aside so that these scofflaws can have have their phony claims get due process and appelas and more appeals and etc.
I have a Canadian friend who married a US government employee and applied for legal residence. It took TEN years to get through the overloaded system. This kind of thing creates resentments from those following the law.
Kevin M (10c195) — 6/11/2025 @ 2:43 pmDemocrats are surprised to learn that immigrants generally don’t hate the country like they do.
lloyd (5149fc) — 6/11/2025 @ 2:44 pmI kind of suspected it was something like that – an authority that does not rely on Article I, Section 8, and the Supreme Court picked Congress as having that authority, for political reasons. This was not till the Constitution was about 100 years old.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 6/11/2025 @ 2:44 pm@306
Oh, you conveniently forgotten when I opined that the police needed to crack down on those rioters.
You must of also conveniently forgotten when I opined that violent rioters should be prosecuted.
whembly (9f5a46) — 6/11/2025 @ 2:44 pmWatching the J6 people enter the building, I expected a much harsher police response. THat it didn’t happen was probably more due to Capitol Police being able to move Members and staff into secure locations. Had Members actually been at risk, there would have been a lot more cases like that idiot Babbitt girl.
Kevin M (10c195) — 6/11/2025 @ 2:50 pm@314
Huh? Please expound on that.
To my knowledge, the votes and even voters registrations are non-public records. If you want to even see the registrations, some entities could request it but there are rigorous applications that need to be addressed to even access these non-pubic records.
If you filed a provisonal or mail in ballot, you can call to see if the ballot was counted.
whembly (9f5a46) — 6/11/2025 @ 2:51 pmHave you ever heard the saying “You have the watches, we have the time?”
BuDuh (de9e73) — 6/11/2025 @ 2:51 pmI’ve heard “If you have the time, we’ve got the beer.” Is that planning?
Kevin M (10c195) — 6/11/2025 @ 2:52 pmSending in the undercover FBI agents to wave Mexican flags and incite the crowds of peaceful tourists was brilliant though.(*)
(*) Evidence-free MAGA-style conspiracy theory. Please repeat frequently and disseminate widely.
Dave (d76391) — 6/11/2025 @ 2:53 pmDave, it was actually predicted that you’d say that.
Kevin M (73db2b) — 6/11/2025 @ 3:20 pmOpposing slavery, secession and treason is now
Dave (d76391) — 6/11/2025 @ 3:22 pmcrimethink“woke”:Chat-GPT?
Dave (d76391) — 6/11/2025 @ 3:23 pmKennedy federalized the Alabama National Guard in 1963 when George Wallace “stood in the schoolhouse door”; and Johnson federalized (again) the Alabama National Guard in 1965 to protect civil rights marchers during the third march between Selma and Montgomery. The first march was beset by attacks organized by the police and civilians on the marchers; and the second march didn’t cross into unincorporated Montgomery County.
This was the last time a President (until this week) had federalized a National Guard without a governor’s request.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/11/2025 @ 3:24 pmIn California, voter registration records can be purchased from any registrar of voters (for example.) How a person has voted, however, is a secret (hence the term “secret ballot.”)
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/11/2025 @ 3:32 pmDonald Trump has arrested?????
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/11/2025 @ 3:34 pmVoter registration and voting records are absolutely public information. You can see the details by state here.
Generally commercial use is prohibited, and there are a few carve-outs for domestic violence victims, law-enforcement officers, etc.
Dave (d76391) — 6/11/2025 @ 3:37 pmPreviously Deported Mexican Illegal To Be Charged With Attempted Murder In LA Riots
lloyd (5149fc) — 6/11/2025 @ 3:50 pmLast time I drove around LA, just the homeless problem there and even in the SFV doesn’t appear like all these years of liberal feel good non-thinking policies have given the policy makers control of anything. Hard not to believe those who support illegal aliens do not in someway benefit from the exploitation of them. Like how it strangely appears most democrats are against cutting waste, somebody is robbing someone, these people are not smart enough to do anything else.
Mat L (b27c3f) — 6/11/2025 @ 3:51 pmTerry Moran suddenly has a lot of time on his hands. I’m sure he’s making his way to downtown LA, Mexican flag in one hand, molotov in the other.
lloyd (5149fc) — 6/11/2025 @ 3:53 pmThe sight of Trump’s gestapo rounding up day-laborers and dishwashers in LA has apparently convinced Elon Musk that you have to take the good with the Big and Beautiful:
Dave (d76391) — 6/11/2025 @ 4:16 pmIf illegal immigration is such an immediate and acute problem, why isn’t the Trump administration actually mobilizing the bureaucracy to deal with it in a legal, practical, efficient way? Why aren’t they hiring the staffing to legally process people who they already have in detention centers? They aren’t doing anything to actually take care of the problem, they are just screaming about it and causing drama.
Nic (120c94) — 6/11/2025 @ 4:18 pm@340 “They aren’t doing anything to actually take care of the problem”
Do you think it’s a problem, Nic?
lloyd (5149fc) — 6/11/2025 @ 4:32 pm@339 “Trump’s gestapo”
Another winning talking point Democrats should run on.
lloyd (5149fc) — 6/11/2025 @ 4:34 pmThe same reason they killed the first bipartisan immigration reform legislation in 20 years.
The abortion issue showed what happens when the GOP dog catches the car it’s chasing.
Better to keep a safe distance while barking as viciously as possible.
Dave (d76391) — 6/11/2025 @ 4:38 pm“The abortion issue showed what happens when the GOP dog catches the car it’s chasing.”
Dave says he’s a Bush supporter.
lloyd (5149fc) — 6/11/2025 @ 4:41 pmI think Dave supports Bush like he supports immigration reform.
lloyd (5149fc) — 6/11/2025 @ 4:42 pmHave anyone seen Rip and Karen Bass in the same room?
lloyd (5149fc) — 6/11/2025 @ 4:57 pmhttps://moonbattery.com/watch-pro-illegal-moonbat-assault-federal-officers/
Nichols is gonna be pretty upset…
BuDuh (de9e73) — 6/11/2025 @ 5:21 pm@lloyd@342 I think it’s a chronic issue that should be addressed. I don’t think it’s an acute one.
Nic (120c94) — 6/11/2025 @ 5:55 pmThis is no surprise, that Trump would accept only the loyal and “right” looking personnel to attend his political rally on a military base. No fatties allowed.
As Nichols observed…
No leader will say anything. Milley publicly distanced himself from Trump’s Bible-holding photo-op in 2020 and we all saw where that got him.
Paul Montagu (f2c80c) — 6/11/2025 @ 6:10 pmPaul,
you might not know this, but fat people aren’t supposed to be soldiers. 5’11”, 180 lbs is about the max. So I don’t know why you think it’s suddenly an issue because Trump.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 6/11/2025 @ 6:20 pmhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IeizQESCsYs
BuDuh (c85533) — 6/11/2025 @ 6:30 pmPerhaps Trump doesn’t know this, because that’s what’s being reported. You might not know this, but Trump is obsessed with optics, like when he didn’t want wounded veterans appearing at a military parade.
Paul Montagu (f2c80c) — 6/11/2025 @ 6:34 pmnon sequitur
Stop trying to go off topic.
NJRob (da58e6) — 6/11/2025 @ 6:42 pm@264 katie porter out of this group. Texas republican plan mid term redistricting to put more republicans in democrat districts. Blue states like NY should do it to in retaliation. BTW some texas election experts say districts are pretty gerrymandered in favor of republicans now and makes them vulnerable to 2018/2006 wave election.
asset (ab7b81) — 6/11/2025 @ 6:45 pmIf it said “experts” instead of “sources,” I would really believe your intel.
BuDuh (c85533) — 6/11/2025 @ 6:57 pmWoke strikes out as GOP trounces Dems 13-2 at annual Congressional Baseball Game
No Republicans shot, either.
lloyd (5149fc) — 6/11/2025 @ 7:13 pmYou might not know about non-sequiturs either, my friend. It’s all in character.
Paul Montagu (f2c80c) — 6/11/2025 @ 8:19 pmBWWWAAAAP!!!, Wrong.
In what world does losing by a significant, but much less, than last time, been you are winning?
The lack of object permanence is becomming an issue.
Colonel Klink (ret) (9dbb75) — 6/11/2025 @ 8:32 pmBragg Soldiers Who Cheered Trump’s Political Attacks While in Uniform Were Checked for Allegiance, Appearance
Colonel Klink (ret) (9dbb75) — 6/11/2025 @ 8:35 pmhttps://www.military.com/daily-news/2025/01/13/despite-high-profile-announcement-first-year-biden-administration-never-offered-surgery-transgender.html
BuDuh (c85533) — 6/11/2025 @ 9:00 pm> Voter registration and voting records are absolutely public information.
In fact,when i was working polling places, we had a copy of the voter roster which we updated hourly to indicate who had voted, and posted it outside the polling place, so that GOTV efforts could come see who they still needed to get out.
aphrael (818166) — 6/11/2025 @ 11:18 pm> If you filed a provisonal or mail in ballot, you can call to see if the ballot was counted.
If I file a mail in ballot, there is a barcode on the envelope which is scanned when (a) the envelope is received, and (b) the vote is counted, and i get email telling me of both events (as well as when the ballot is mailed to me).
aphrael (818166) — 6/11/2025 @ 11:19 pm@359 75 million voted for democrat 77.3 million voted for trump and 2.8 million voted other. trump got less then 50% of vote. In by elections since democrats have over achieved and republicans have under achieved. 6 million democrats who voted in 2020 didn’t vote in 2024. Those swing voters who were disgusted with corporate democrat party voted in 2024 Those who didn’t vote were disgusted democrats who didn’t like appealing to republican liz cheney. Try countering this with facts if you disagree. Those who walked away from democrat party voted in 2024.
asset (64a689) — 6/11/2025 @ 11:21 pmIf illegal immigration is such an immediate and acute problem, why isn’t the Trump administration actually mobilizing the bureaucracy to deal with it in a legal, practical, efficient way?
Because there is no such thing. The pro-illegal lobby, from Biden to various judges to the immigration bar, has jammed up the works to the point where there is no reasonable bureaucratic or judicial path forward.
See for example the recent Supreme Court case Monslavo Velasquez v. Bondi, which the Court summarized as followsL
This latter ruling he appealed all the way to the Supreme Court, arguing that since his 60 day appeal period expired of a weekend, it should have been extended to Monday, when his appeal reached the court.
In April 2025, the US Supreme Court accepted that argument and sent the case down to the lower courts for further consideration.
Note that we are now 15 years into Mr Monsolvo’s “due process” — in which he has lost every substantive ruling — and it is likely the case will persist for some time more, especially if his further appeal is accepted and hearings scheduled.
The Law doesn’t work.
Kevin M (10c195) — 6/11/2025 @ 11:44 pm75 million voted for democrat 77.3 million voted for trump and 2.8 million voted other. trump got less then 50% of vote.
Every sore loser has used this argument since Jefferson beat Adams. Trump won. Deal with it.
Did you know that Lincoln didn’t even get 40% of the vote in 1860?
Kevin M (10c195) — 6/11/2025 @ 11:47 pm@366 Kevin this is why I pointed out the results of by election in 2025 democrats over performed. Sore loser? I voted for Jill Stein green party and am happy to see trump discredit and humiliate the corporate establishment donor class drone democrats who run the party into the ground fighting Bernie Sanders, AOC, David Hogg and progressives instead of the republican party. They hate trump ;but fear progressives in their own party. 2026 will be another 2018/2006 Deal with it!
asset (64a689) — 6/12/2025 @ 12:23 amDave supports Bush and Dave isn’t a liar like you.
I have never based my vote on anyone’s stance on abortion.
I do not believe in god, but abortion makes me uncomfortable, and I think it should be discouraged and avoided when possible.
On the other hand, I don’t feel that my discomfort is a valid reason to make a woman I don’t know carry an unwanted pregnancy to term.
Before I went on hiatus from this site (and before Roe was overturned), I suggested the following grand compromise:
1) First trimester abortion is a protected right that no state may infringe on.
Dave (640b5e) — 6/12/2025 @ 2:48 am2) The legality of second trimester abortions is up to each state to decide.
3) Third trimester abortions are prohibited except in cases of rape, incest or if the mother’s life is in danger (this exception would also apply to second trimester state laws).
Trump won, but he and his knob-polishers falsely describe his victory as a landslide. That lie should always be challenged.
Hillary won the popular vote in 2016 by more than Trump did in 2024.
Dave (640b5e) — 6/12/2025 @ 2:53 amLeftists, keep telling us what you really think. Normies eyes are opening as to what your real goals are.
NJRob (da58e6) — 6/12/2025 @ 5:16 amYeah Dave, I guess you’re one of those many Bush supporters who call LEOs and ICE “gestapo.” /s
And, interesting abortion proposal which you never wanted to see enacted. Is pretending to chase after the car better than actually catching it?
lloyd (5149fc) — 6/12/2025 @ 6:22 amNichols should take out some advertisements on the subway poster boards. His message to the “unsatisfied” is not resonating for some reason.
How many police cars burned to the ground on Jan 6th? Probably a bunch. I don’t remember.
BuDuh (c85533) — 6/12/2025 @ 7:30 amMore January 6th similarities:
I sort of remember the MAGA-tards firing “commercial-grade fireworks” at Capitol Police but I am struggling to find that article.
Either way, Nic should be happy that the arrests are climbing higher.
BuDuh (c85533) — 6/12/2025 @ 7:43 amPresident Bush emphasized the importance of treating people – including illegal immigrants – with dignity.
Here is a summary of his immigration reform proposal from 2005. It concludes:
You won’t see anyone in the Trump administration talking about “upholding the nation’s deepest values” or a “tolerant, welcoming America”.
The word “Gestapo” is a shortening of “Geheime Staatspolizei” (Secret State Police). Sadly, it fits.
Reichsfuhrer-SS Stephen Miller is having federal officers hide their faces behind masks, and refuse to identify themselves when making arrests – a perfect way to avoid accountability for misconduct. Taking a page from Hitler’s “Night and Fog” decree (“An effective and lasting deterrent can be achieved only by the death penalty or by taking measures which will leave the family and the population uncertain as to the fate of the offender”), some of those taken into custody have simply vanished, with no information provided to their families about their whereabouts.
Electorally it was better for the Republicans, yes.
Dave (640b5e) — 6/12/2025 @ 7:48 amProtesters turned their attention to several local hotels after rumors of ICE agents staying there as guests.
BuDuh (c85533) — 6/12/2025 @ 7:53 amTerry Moran courageously joins the protests, ensconced at his home in a neighborhood where I’m sure he has many illegal alien neighbors, doing landscaping. Send him your money, please.
lloyd (5149fc) — 6/12/2025 @ 7:55 amBuddha, I can’t speak for Nick, but I’m glad that they’re resting people who are committing act of violence
Time123 (88ec6d) — 6/12/2025 @ 8:18 amProtesting and speaking, your mind is a fundamental right. Even if it’s exercised by stupid people, as in this case. Violence has no part in that, and I want the people who commit violence. As a deterrent for others.
Time123 (88ec6d) — 6/12/2025 @ 8:19 amTrump won. LOL
So, it’s better to just give lip service to campaign issues to win votes, than to actually do it. You’ve captured the pre-Trump GOP perfectly. Quite an admission, Dave.
lloyd (5149fc) — 6/12/2025 @ 8:54 amDisinformation:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/12/2025 @ 8:57 amLOL, a claim that hardly anyone knew about gets a fact check.
Rip’s fact checker waited a year to correct the “border patrol whipped migrants” narrative. There was plenty of viral MSM sourced misinformation that smeared BP agents which Poynter never thought worth checking. Left wing fact checking in a nutshell.
lloyd (5149fc) — 6/12/2025 @ 9:22 amI am not sure I am going to click on your link. Would you give me a heads up on whether or not the authors interviewed anyone who has been urgently deployed anywhere else and the exact conditions they had upon arrival?
I don’t think this is the dunk it appears to be.
BuDuh (765c98) — 6/12/2025 @ 9:22 amDave calling our soldiers, LEOs and ICE “gestapo”, echoing viral Leftist misinformation online, will never get fact checked.
lloyd (5149fc) — 6/12/2025 @ 9:23 am@374 “a perfect way to avoid accountability for misconduct”
Don’t worry Dave, ICE agents are being held accountable.
lloyd (5149fc) — 6/12/2025 @ 9:29 amObstructing an Official Proceeding!!
More and more like Jan 6..
BuDuh (765c98) — 6/12/2025 @ 12:07 pmMarines don’t arrest people.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/12/2025 @ 1:01 pm@336
That’s not really public record, and you have to register to access that info.
Furthermore, in CA at least, it only shows NAME, ADDRESS, Phone# and Party Affiliation.
Bruh, you cannot do a retrospective analysis to determine if they’re citizen. I can certainly estrapulate… but, with no other identifiers (like SSN), the list is near meaningless.
whembly (03e408) — 6/12/2025 @ 1:02 pm@341
Because they know its going to be a long fight in courts.
Just like the birthright citizenship question.
whembly (03e408) — 6/12/2025 @ 1:04 pm@344
You mean that same bill would ALLOW upto 5k illegal migrants a day?
That bill?
No Dave, stop making fetch happen. I’m glad that bill died an inglorious death.
whembly (03e408) — 6/12/2025 @ 1:05 pm@366 Every sore loser has used this argument since Jefferson beat Adams. Trump won. Deal with it.
Did you know that Lincoln didn’t even get 40% of the vote in 1860?
Kevin M (10c195) — 6/11/2025 @ 11:47 pm
whembly (03e408) — 6/12/2025 @ 1:14 pmWait till you hear about what Bill Clinton got.
Newsom gets his court hearing:
Related:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/12/2025 @ 4:50 pmLink for first article in post 391.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/12/2025 @ 4:52 pmhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PKYA4H6RmzI
Team Nichols…
BuDuh (765c98) — 6/12/2025 @ 5:27 pmhttps://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.450934/gov.uscourts.cand.450934.64.0.pdf
On June 6, 2025, the federal government initiated immigration raids across the City
of Los Angeles. Protests swiftly followed, and some individuals involved in those protests Were unruly and even violent. State and local law enforcement responded. The following day, President Trump ordered that members of the California National Guard be federalized, and thereupon assumed control of those forces.
At this early stage of the proceedings, the Court must determine whether the
aphrael (397f3a) — 6/12/2025 @ 6:33 pmPresident followed the congressionally mandated procedure for his actions. He did not. His actions were illegal—both exceeding the scope of his statutory authority and violating the Tenth Amendment to the United States Constitution. He must therefore return control of the California National Guard to the Governor of the State of California forthwith.
Notice of appeal filed. https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.450934/gov.uscourts.cand.450934.65.0_3.pdf
aphrael (397f3a) — 6/12/2025 @ 7:09 pmGot this email today from Mayor Bass. She demands that ICE raids stop in her city — that the federal government stop enforcing federal law.
She asserts that Los Angeles is unified in opposing immigration enforcement and attempts to conflate that with the WW2 Japanese relocation.
She suggests that attempting to enforce federal law in her city is the problem, not the obstruction or mob attacks on law enforcement.
Kevin M (691150) — 6/13/2025 @ 8:51 amI note that the district court’s opinion does not actually have a good 10th Amendment argument. The Court asserts two reasons why it violates the 10th:
1) Because the Court has determined that the federalization was unlawful (not really about the 10th) and
2) Because protecting federal agents from mobs is part of the state’s police power, and police power is covered by the 10th.
Point 2 relies solely upon a 1878 decision about whether a state may regulate the use of a federally patented invention. That’s the ONLY case cited and it is not even close to being on point. I guess the Court decided not to use the noxious Cruikshank decision from the same era, which was far closer to the decision in this case.
So, given the lack of a cogent argument directly on the 10th, the Court simply regurgitates its legality argument as “proof” of the 10th Amendment claim.
Kevin M (691150) — 6/13/2025 @ 9:08 amThe argument that isn’t on point was the admins, the court ruled that there are 3 tests in the 10th as written, and the admin didn’t justify one, in fact lied about it, and just whistled past the justification completely.
That’s why the courts are positioning this to go to the SCOTUS for review. I only know this because the court said it, in English, when asked.
The number of people “knowing” the details of the ruling that haven’t read the ruling is astounding.
Stop watching NewsMax.
TLDR: Just because the prez bleats it on Truth Social or writes an exec order, doesn’t mean they have any force of law. That Bund state apparatchiks work like it is a legal order doesn’t make it so, the effects are only bad on those individuals, and turns America away from the path of “Shining City On a Hill” to a van down by the river.
Colonel Klink (ret) (9dbb75) — 6/13/2025 @ 10:07 am