Patterico's Pontifications

5/28/2025

Here We Go Again: Self-Professed Tough Guy Says, We’ll Have To Wait and See. . .

Filed under: General — Dana @ 10:44 pm



[guest post by Dana]

In case you wondered what’s stopping Trump from imposing sanctions on Russia:

“Only the fact that if I think I’m close to getting a deal, I don’t wanna screw it up by doing that,” Trump responded. “Let me tell you, I’m a lot tougher than the people you’re talking about. But you have to know when to use that.”

The president went on to refer to the conflict as “Biden’s war, Zelensky’s war, and Putin’s war. This isn’t Trump’s war.”

Additionally:

Asked if he still believed Putin really wants to end the war, Trump sidestepped.

“I can’t tell you that,” Trump said. “But I’ll let you know in about two weeks. Within two weeks. We’re going to find out very soon. We’re going to find out whether or not he’s tapping us along or not. And if he is, we’ll respond a little bit differently. But it will take about a week and a half, two weeks.”

At what point do we call it straight up capitulation? Because I know, and you know that Putin doesn’t want to end the war. Frankly, he’s already had about three years to end the war. . . How can there really be any doubt about his intentions? Perhaps Trump should watch this video and see for himself what Putin wants. A ceasefire sure isn’t it. What Russia wants is a genocide against Ukraine and to subsume the country. An evil ethnic cleansing, so thorough that Ukraine, as we know it, no longer exists.

And so it goes: “Trump keeps giving Putin another two weeks and Congressional Republicans keep giving Trump another two weeks and Russia keeps murdering innocent Ukrainians week after week.”

—Dana

69 Responses to “Here We Go Again: Self-Professed Tough Guy Says, We’ll Have To Wait and See. . .”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (6cda6c)

  2. During his first term, his totally phenomenal health care plan was always coming in two weeks.

    Looks like this term it’ll be “tough” action against Putin that’s perpetually just around the corner.

    It’s just stupid – what will be different two weeks from now, compared to two weeks or two months ago?

    Dave (ffb911)

  3. What will two weeks be different then now? Nato has taken off range restrictions on their weapons. Trump has been ambivalent on range restrictions. Putin is afraid of strikes on Moscow and is huffing and puffing. For the umpteenth time if Ukraine doesn’t lose it wins and if putin doesn’t win he loses! Ukraine like America in the revolutionary war, Vietnam and Afganistan isn’t going anywhere. Look at the beating Gaza is taking with 50,000 children dead and they are still fighting on. What makes you think putin who is in far worse shape will do any better?

    asset (fc32ba)

  4. I think it’s safe to say that Trump’s natural attention span is about a week and a half. He seems to think that two weeks is enough time for people to forget or to drive a change in the subject.

    I kinda think he’s helping Russia just knocks Ukraine over so he can be done with the whole thing

    Time123 (034d46)

  5. One thing to keep in mind is that the Chechnya war lasted 10 years. Even if Russia takes control of Ukraine it’s likely to result in a protracted guerrilla war. I think the proximity to western EU makes this more likely since it will be in the interests of other European border states to keep Russia bogged down in Ukraine and less able to threaten them directly.

    So I doubt the killing stops any time soon even in Russia achieves a decisive military victory.

    Vietnam, Afganistan, Iraq, are all examples of how a determined resistance can deny a powerful invader a victory…and none of those were so close to western supply of arms.

    Time (b58c41)

  6. Just wait till Putin applies for a student visa to Harvard!

    Then he’ll see! The whole world will see!

    nk (8a608a)

  7. Soft TACO says two weeks, but Witkoff is negotiating with Putin, who’s not going to extract any concessions from the terrorist.
    This is a concept of a presidency.

    Paul Montagu (07689a)

  8. Pee Wee Herman vs. Ming The Merciless In The Fifth Dementia.

    nk (92e79e)

  9. Trump seemed to believe the other day that Russia wasn’t even interested in a peace agreement like that of Munich in October 1938 or like the one that ended U.S. involvement in the Vietnam war. That’s all that Trump is asking for from Putin for now.

    Sammy Finkelman (2d7491)

  10. The EU, at this moment, lack any significant military capacity on their own but seems willing to fight Russia to the last Ukrainian.

    What worries me, is that once that last Ukrainian soldier is killed off, the Europeans will advocate to fight Russia in Ukraine to the last American soldiers.

    whembly (5e04d3)

  11. The EU, at this moment, lack any significant military capacity on their own but seems willing to fight Russia to the last Ukrainian.

    What worries me, is that once that last Ukrainian soldier is killed off, the Europeans will advocate to fight Russia in Ukraine to the last American soldiers.

    whembly (5e04d3) — 5/29/2025 @ 8:57 am

    I wouldn’t worry about it; the war will be over long before that happens.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  12. The EU, at this moment, lack any significant military capacity on their own but seems willing to fight Russia to the last Ukrainian.

    Rubbish, a classic MAGA trope that denies that Ukrainians have agency.

    Paul Montagu (07689a)

  13. we should have suspected, after the Loser surrendered to the Taliban, that TACO was likely.

    Jim Miller (7ecde3)

  14. @12

    Rubbish, a classic MAGA trope that denies that Ukrainians have agency.

    Paul Montagu (07689a) — 5/29/2025 @ 9:30 am

    Classic Paul purposely misreading what was posted.

    At no point do I deny UKE’s own agency.

    whembly (5e04d3)

  15. The EU, at this moment, lack any significant military capacity on their own but seems willing to fight Russia to the last Ukrainian.

    Rubbish, a classic MAGA trope that denies that Ukrainians have agency.

    Paul Montagu (07689a) — 5/29/2025 @ 9:30 am

    They do have agency. They absolutely have the right to fight to the last man if they want.
    We are under no obligation to help them.
    Our deficit continues to grow, that is a bigger threat to us than Russia.

    Joe (584b3d)

  16. “The EU, at this moment, lack any significant military capacity on their own but seems willing to fight Russia to the last Ukrainian.”

    It’s as if the Ukrainians might actually prefer to fight and die rather than be conquered and subsumed. No one is making them fight for their country, their freedom, their democracy, their desire to join the EU capitalist markets, and to maintain their independence.

    I’m sure they would welcome NATO boots and especially a no-fly zone, but they understand the practical limits of support. MAGA seems perfectly willing to give much of Ukraine to our geopolitical enemy because it stands for nothing.

    AJ_Liberty (bd81a2)

  17. At no point do I deny UKE’s own agency.

    You just did. It’s classic xenophobic twaddle, straight from the MAGAs in Disqus comment sections.

    Paul Montagu (07689a)

  18. We are under no obligation to help them.

    We signed a Budapest Memorandum, which Trump appears ready to welsh just like Putin did.

    Paul Montagu (07689a)

  19. We are under no obligation to help them.

    We signed a Budapest Memorandum, which Trump appears ready to welsh just like Putin did.

    Paul Montagu (07689a) — 5/29/2025 @ 10:34 am

    Was that a treaty?
    I have been skeptical ever since Turkey refused us to use them as a staging base post 9-11. Would not respect Article V.

    Joe (584b3d)

  20. “The EU, at this moment, lack any significant military capacity.”

    They have more capacity that Ukraine — aircraft, tanks, missiles people who know how to use them — and Ukraine has held off Russia for several years.

    This is just crap, whembly.

    NATO has the ability to both wipe the floor with Russia and its army of criminals and conscripts and to deter Russia from nuclear responses.

    They might not have the will, but they are staring into the abyss if they don’t.

    Kevin M (b56396)

  21. We are under no obligation to help them.

    The “Nation of Assh0les” argument.

    Kevin M (b56396)

  22. Was that a treaty?

    No, it was a signed agreement, with us and the UK and Russia and Ukraine as signatories. We’re either good on our word or we’re not.

    BTW, regarding the EU, they’ve sent more military and overall aid to Ukraine than we have (seems like they do have some military capacity) and, thanks to Trump betraying our decades-long NATO allies, we’re going to see a major militarization of Europe the likes of which we’ve never seen before, not since the 1930s.

    Paul Montagu (07689a)

  23. NATO has the ability to both wipe the floor with Russia….

    Not without the US.

    Rip Murdock (d6d95d)

  24. We are under no obligation to help them.

    The “Nation of Assh0les” argument.

    Kevin M (b56396) — 5/29/2025 @ 10:45 am

    No I disagree. President Washington cautioned about “foreign entanglements” Not a source, but a reference i think. https://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ho/time/nr/14319.htm

    I do not see how refusing to get involved makes us assholes. Is Switzerland an asshole?

    Joe (584b3d)

  25. We signed a Budapest Memorandum, which Trump appears ready to welsh just like Putin did.

    Paul Montagu (07689a) — 5/29/2025 @ 10:34 am

    Was that a treaty?
    ……
    Joe (584b3d) — 5/29/2025 @ 10:42 am

    No, it was a signed agreement, with us and the UK and Russia and Ukraine as signatories. We’re either good on our word or we’re not.

    Paul Montagu (07689a) — 5/29/2025 @ 11:00 am

    The Budapest Memorandum (aka the Memorandum on Security Assurances in Connection with Ukraine’s Accession to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons) was an exercise of “constructive ambiguity” which allows the parties to interpret what it means. Note that the official title only refers to “security assurances” and not “security guarantees,” which is a more substantial promise. But it is clear that the United States (and the United Kingdom) fulfilled their obligations under the Budapest Memorandum; while the Russian Federation has not.

    The three countries committed themselves to:

    to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine;

    * to refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind;

    * to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a non-nuclear-weapon State party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used;

    * not to use nuclear weapons against any non-nuclear weapon State party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, except in the case of an attack on themselves, their territories or dependent territories, their armed forces, or their allies, by such a State in association or alliance with a nuclear-weapon State; and

    * to consult (with each other) in the event a situation arises that raises a question concerning these commitments.

    My emphasis highlights the only substantive commitment made under the agreement.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  26. @17

    At no point do I deny UKE’s own agency.

    You just did. It’s classic xenophobic twaddle, straight from the MAGAs in Disqus comment sections.

    Paul Montagu (07689a) — 5/29/2025 @ 10:32 am

    I can’t help that you’re wrong.

    I’m pointing out that the EU nations are more than happy to support UKE’s efforts against Russia.

    My concerns are *if* UKE runs out of man power. Then what?

    You tell me Paul… then what?

    whembly (5e04d3)

  27. @18

    We signed a Budapest Memorandum, which Trump appears ready to welsh just like Putin did.

    Paul Montagu (07689a) — 5/29/2025 @ 10:34 am

    Obama made sure that agreement has no teeth, Paul. It’s a dead letter.

    whembly (5e04d3)

  28. @20

    “The EU, at this moment, lack any significant military capacity.”

    They have more capacity that Ukraine — aircraft, tanks, missiles people who know how to use them — and Ukraine has held off Russia for several years.

    This is just crap, whembly.

    NATO has the ability to both wipe the floor with Russia and its army of criminals and conscripts and to deter Russia from nuclear responses.

    They might not have the will, but they are staring into the abyss if they don’t.

    Kevin M (b56396) — 5/29/2025 @ 10:43 am

    Tell that to the EU NATO countries currently struggling to field divisions on the grounds.

    It’s because they don’t have the will to get there at the moment.

    whembly (5e04d3)

  29. Obama made sure that agreement has no teeth, Paul. It’s a dead letter.

    Make that Clinton, who actually signed the agreement. Obama was only the first in short-changing Ukraine after Putin started his war.

    I can’t help that you’re wrong.

    No, you’re wrong. That line about “…seems willing to fight Russia to the last Ukrainian” has been isolationist trope for over three years, clearly inferring that [name proxy here] is directing the war from afar, without Ukrainian say-so, when the reality is that the victim gets a vote, and they’ve been voting to defend themselves from Putin’s attempts at conquest.

    Regarding manpower, that’s why I keep advocating that Ukraine, for once, get the weapons they’ve been asking for.

    Paul Montagu (07689a)

  30. “Meh! Those grapes are sour, anyway!”

    nk (58cd73)

  31. At the time the Budapest Memorandum was signed they were only interested in the immediate future, and it would take some time for Ukraine to give up the nuclear weapons on its soil, so it was almost self-enforcing for awhile and then after that Ukraine was like Poland.

    It got unquestioned Russian recognition of the independence and the boundaries of Ukraine.

    But Boris Yeltsin was in charge then.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  32. Obama made sure that agreement has no teeth, Paul. It’s a dead letter.

    whembly (5e04d3) — 5/29/2025 @ 1:53 pm

    That would require time travel, since the agreement was signed in 1994.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  33. Rip,

    he’s saying Obama didn’t enforce the memorandum when Russia first invaded

    Pretty obtuse not to get the reference.

    NJRob (959cfa)

  34. @30

    Obama made sure that agreement has no teeth, Paul. It’s a dead letter.

    Make that Clinton, who actually signed the agreement. Obama was only the first in short-changing Ukraine after Putin started his war

    Sure, Clinton shares the blame.

    But, Ukraine was invaded during the Obama administration. Obama had an opportunity to abide by the memorandum and for various reasons, chose not to.

    whembly (5e04d3)

  35. Obama had an opportunity to abide by the memorandum and for various reasons, chose not to.

    The memorandum required no action on the part of the US, unless nuclear weapons were used against Ukraine (and in that case, it only required seeking assistance through the UN).

    Obama did more than what the memorandum required.

    Dave (d3f316)

  36. Nov. 2026 Ukraine gets reinforcements in congress. Nov. 2028 Ukraine wins. Both Britian and France have ICBM capable subs if putin tries to threaten. France has nuclear armed cruise missiles for their aircraft.

    asset (0a52cb)

  37. Rip,

    he’s saying Obama didn’t enforce the memorandum when Russia first invaded

    Pretty obtuse not to get the reference.

    NJRob (959cfa) — 5/29/2025 @ 2:55 pm

    But, Ukraine was invaded during the Obama administration. Obama had an opportunity to abide by the memorandum and for various reasons, chose not to.

    whembly (5e04d3) — 5/29/2025 @ 3:07 pm

    As I pointed out above, since 1994 the US has continually abided with all of its responsibilities under the Budapest Memorandum.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  38. As I pointed out above, since 1994 the US has continually abided with all of its responsibilities under the Budapest Memorandum.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/29/2025 @ 4:01 pm

    Which were:

    * to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine;

    * to refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind;

    * to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a non-nuclear-weapon State party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used;

    * not to use nuclear weapons against any non-nuclear weapon State party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, except in the case of an attack on themselves, their territories or dependent territories, their armed forces, or their allies, by such a State in association or alliance with a nuclear-weapon State; and

    * to consult (with each other) in the event a situation arises that raises a question concerning these commitments.

    Ukraine may have felt it was coerced to sign the mineral rights agreement with the Trump Administration, thereby violating the second bullet point.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  39. Will it happen?

    President Trump is unhappy with Vladimir Putin. The Russian isn’t heeding the President’s entreaties to stop the killing in Ukraine, and Mr. Trump is nonplussed.
    ……….
    Mr. Trump may be the only person in the world still surprised by how Mr. Putin is behaving…….. He’s not going to modify his ambitions merely because Mr. Trump alternates between begging for peace and scolding outbursts on social media.

    Mr. Trump and his advisers fancy themselves steely-eyed realists on foreign policy. ……. Mr. Trump’s naivete is helping Russia continue the killing as long as Mr. Putin wants.

    ………. (Senator Lindsey Graham) has 82 co-sponsors on a bill that would hit countries that buy Russian oil and gas with tariff sanctions. Energy sales are Mr. Putin’s financial lifeline. President Biden refused to apply these so-called secondary sanctions, and Mr. Trump can’t make up his mind.

    If Mr. Trump signaled that he supports the Graham-Tom Cotton-Richard Blumenthal sanctions bill, it would sail through the Senate. Combined with the promise of more arms to Ukraine when the current supply runs out, these sanctions might change Mr. Putin’s calculations about the price of war. But GOP Senators can act whether or not Mr. Trump approves. They can vote on the sanctions bill, and force the President to face the hard reality of Mr. Putin’s ambitions that Mr. Trump would rather avoid.
    ############

    It would take a sea change in Trump’s thinking to support Graham’s sanctions bill, let alone back more aid to Ukraine. Even if it passed the Senate, President Trump would need to do severe arm twisting to get it through the House. Speaker Mike Johnson would need to be protected from the pro-Putin caucus if he brought it to the floor, which could easily remove him from his Speaker’s chair.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  40. No, not fair, Mr. Kellogg. I wonder if he’s trying to get his seat back at the table after Putin froze him out.

    Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 – long before NATO membership was on the table. But Trump’s envoy now calls Moscow’s fears about NATO “fair.”

    This is true, and Putin has flip-flopped on NATO, from okay with Ukraine entering the alliance in 2002…

    I am absolutely convinced that Ukraine will not shy away from the processes of expanding interaction with NATO and the Western allies as a whole. Ukraine has its own relations with NATO; there is the Ukraine-NATO Council. At the end of the day, the decision is to be taken by NATO and Ukraine. It is a matter for those two partners.

    …to using NATO as a pathetic excuse to invade in 2022.

    Paul Montagu (92c87c)

  41. [name proxy here] is directing the war from afar, without Ukrainian say-so, when the reality is that the victim gets a vote, and they’ve been voting to defend themselves from Putin’s attempts at conquest.

    Indeed. Biden’s first move after Russia invaded was to send a plane to get Zelensky out before Russia crushed them in a short victorious war. Ween that plan failed, he moved on to sending them the first thing on his too little, too late list.

    Kevin M (8b536b)

  42. Obama did more than what the memorandum required.

    And less than what posterity will accept.

    Kevin M (8b536b)

  43. Both Britian and France have ICBM capable subs

    24 MIRVed Trident missiles would ruin Russia. In the US it would mean destroying every city lager than Boise. It’s a deterrent.

    Kevin M (8b536b)

  44. Obama did more than what the memorandum required.

    And less than what posterity will accept.

    Kevin M (8b536b) — 5/30/2025 @ 8:02 am

    Every US administration fulfilled their obligations under the Budapest Memorandum.

    Rip Murdock (d6d95d)

  45. @45

    Every US administration fulfilled their obligations under the Budapest Memorandum.

    Rip Murdock (d6d95d) — 5/30/2025 @ 8:28 am

    What about the spirit of their obligation?

    What was the whole reason for that Memorandum?

    whembly (09d73c)

  46. What about the spirit of their obligation?

    What was the whole reason for that Memorandum?

    whembly (09d73c) — 5/30/2025 @ 8:39 am

    To induce Ukraine to send its nuclear weapons to Russia. Ukraine lacked the capability to use them in a militarily meaningful way, as they lacked the infrastructure to launch the missiles on their territory. It would have cost billions (that Ukraine didn’t have) and international isolation if they kept them.

    Rip Murdock (4b2c27)

  47. What was the whole reason for that Memorandum?

    Ukraine gave up nuclear weapons in exchange for not being again invaded and conquered by Russia. Clinton is at fault for not putting teeth into the deal.

    Paul Montagu (92c87c)

  48. Clinton is at fault for not putting teeth into the deal.

    When the memorandum was signed in late 1994, none of the former Warsaw Pact countries had yet joined NATO (Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic were the first, in 1999), and the last Russian troops had withdrawn from the newly reunited Germany only a few months before.

    A guarantee with “teeth” – committing the US to defend Ukraine’s borders – at that time would have been a radical move, and one the senate would have been unlikely to approve.

    Dave (d64b7b)

  49. Clinton is at fault for not putting teeth into the deal.

    Paul Montagu (92c87c) — 5/30/2025 @ 9:20 am

    It was a three-way negotiation. Russia probably would not have accepted a US security guarantee for Ukraine, and was in a much better position to pressure Ukraine than the US.

    I’ve never understood your desire to blame Clinton or Obama for Russia’s decisions to ignore its obligations under the Budapest Memorandum.

    Rip Murdock (4b2c27)

  50. A guarantee with “teeth” – committing the US to defend Ukraine’s borders – at that time would have been a radical move, and one the senate would have been unlikely to approve.

    Dave (d64b7b) — 5/30/2025 @ 9:45 am

    Which is why it remains a diplomatic agreement, and not a treaty obligation.

    Rip Murdock (4b2c27)

  51. I’ve never understood your desire to blame Clinton or Obama for Russia’s decisions to ignore its obligations under the Budapest Memorandum.

    This is false. There are too many times to count where I’ve said that Putin gets the blame for welshing on the deal. That doesn’t mean we can’t criticize the structure of the deal.

    Paul Montagu (92c87c)

  52. Every US administration fulfilled their obligations under the Budapest Memorandum.

    Every US administration fulfilled their obligation to stop genocides in Cambodia, Rwanda, Sudan and elsewhere. They did nothing, and were required to do nothing.

    Does that make them good?

    Kevin M (ba5d82)

  53. and was in a much better position to pressure Ukraine than the US.

    Considering that their puppets ruled Ukraine until 2014.

    Kevin M (ba5d82)

  54. Ukraine lacked the capability to use them in a militarily meaningful way

    No nation has the capability to use nuclear weapons in a militarily meaningful way. Unless you call “suicide” meaningful.

    Kevin M (ba5d82)

  55. @48

    Ukraine gave up nuclear weapons in exchange for not being again invaded and conquered by Russia. Clinton is at fault for not putting teeth into the deal.

    Paul Montagu (92c87c) — 5/30/2025 @ 9:20 am

    Obama had every opportunity to help Ukraine when Russia invaded in his term.

    It took the following Trump administration to allow more lethal aids.

    Obama shares blame here as well.

    whembly (09d73c)

  56. Obama had every opportunity to help Ukraine when Russia invaded in his term.

    Obama did help, but it was nowhere near enough, just like all his successors.

    Trump sent Javelins to Ukraine, but told the Ukrainians to keep them in western Ukraine, hundreds of miles from the front, where they’d do no good.
    Ukraine has been short-changed at every turn since 2014, and Biden is no exception, and Trump is again shafting the country.

    Paul Montagu (92c87c)

  57. Fact-checking Trump’s claim that Obama gave Ukraine ‘pillows and sheets’

    By March 2015, the US had committed more than $120 million in security assistance for Ukraine and had pledged an additional $75 million worth of equipment including UAVs, counter-mortar radars, night vision devices and medical supplies, according to the Pentagon’s Defense Security Cooperation Agency.

    That assistance also included some 230 armored Humvee vehicles.

    […]

    While it never provided lethal aid, many of the items that the Obama administration did provide were seen as critical to Ukraine’s military. Part of the $250 million assistance package that the Trump administration announced (then froze and later unfroze) included many of the same items that were provided under Obama, including medical equipment, night vision gear and counter-artillery radar.

    This article does show that Obama resisted calls from both parties to provide more lethal aid. In hindsight, that was clearly a mistake, but the arguments for de-escalation in the face of a fait accompli in 2015 seem a lot more reasonable than they do today, with Ukraine resisting a full-blown invasion.

    Obama pressed on many fronts to arm Ukraine

    Dave (d64b7b)

  58. Every US administration fulfilled their obligation to stop genocides in Cambodia, Rwanda, Sudan and elsewhere. They did nothing, and were required to do nothing.

    Does that make them good?

    Kevin M (ba5d82) — 5/30/2025 @ 10:56 am

    What treaty obligations required the US to intervene militarily in the genocides?

    Rip Murdock (4b2c27)

  59. There are too many times to count where I’ve said that Putin gets the blame for welshing on the deal. That doesn’t mean we can’t criticize the structure of the deal.

    Paul Montagu (92c87c) — 5/30/2025 @ 10:33 am

    It’s crying over spilled milk to complain about a barely binding agreement signed 31 years ago. You might as complain over the Treaty of Versailles as the precursor to World War Two.

    Rip Murdock (4b2c27)

  60. Every US administration fulfilled their obligation to stop genocides in Cambodia, Rwanda, Sudan and elsewhere. They did nothing, and were required to do nothing.

    Does that make them good?

    Kevin M (ba5d82) — 5/30/2025 @ 10:56 am

    Actually yes, as it prevented the US from being bogged down in having to choose sides in civil wars.

    Rip Murdock (4b2c27)

  61. Where there were no US interests.

    Rip Murdock (4b2c27)

  62. @58

    This article does show that Obama resisted calls from both parties to provide more lethal aid. In hindsight, that was clearly a mistake, but the arguments for de-escalation in the face of a fait accompli in 2015 seem a lot more reasonable than they do today, with Ukraine resisting a full-blown invasion.

    Obama pressed on many fronts to arm Ukraine

    Dave (d64b7b) — 5/30/2025 @ 11:33 am

    Dave.

    Democrats, during the Obama years, and even before then… were all soft on Russia.

    That’s because Democrats were Russia-curious because of it’s adjacency to communism/socialisms.

    From Hillary Clinton’s reset button

    to…

    Obama telling Medevdev he’ll have flexibility after the elections…

    I’m convince that some of the Russian/Putin hatred really stems from the belief that Russia “helped” Trump win his 1st term. That, it took Democrats to lose what they believed was a slamdunk election with Hillary Clinton… to really pivot against all things Russia.

    It’s quite a journey to finally take a more antagonistic position against Russia, and likely for all the wrong reasons.

    whembly (09d73c)

  63. Democrats, during the Obama years, and even before then… were all soft on Russia.

    Obama and the Democrats came to power in reaction to Bush’s aggressive foreign policy (which I fully supported at the time, and still fully support, BTW).

    In 2009, hoping to build a constructive relationship with Russia was not completely crazy – Bush hoped for it too. If Russia had reciprocated, many of our interests – in the Middle-east, in Europe, and in Asia – would have benefitted. That it proved impossible is not due to any fundamental conflicts, but because Putin turned out to be an imperialist who refused to live within his country’s borders.

    That’s because Democrats were Russia-curious because of it’s adjacency to communism/socialisms.

    This is nonsense. In Obama’s time – and for almost two decades before – Russia was a capitalist oligarchy.

    Communism only lingers in one place: North Korea. Remind me which president said he “fell in love” with that country’s brutal dictator?

    Obama telling Medevdev he’ll have flexibility after the elections…

    Except Obama never delivered on his “promise”, and was actually stringing Medvedev and Putin along, buying time for the NATO missile defense system to be deployed on schedule, which it was.

    Dave (d64b7b)

  64. Kevin M (ba5d82) — 5/30/2025 @ 10:56 am

    Every US administration fulfilled their obligation to stop genocides in Cambodia, Rwanda, Sudan and elsewhere. They did nothing, and were required to do nothing.

    They didn’t do nothing, at least in the first two cases/ They facilitated it.

    In the case of Cambodia, President Jimmy Carter stopped an invasion by Thailand (in response to provocations by the Khmer Rouge) in 1977, It only came to an end in 1979 with a invasion by Vietnam, and after that, for ten years, the United States took the position that the invasion by Vietnam had been wrong and supported recognition of the government led by Pol Pot in the United Nations (technically the U>S> was supporting his coalition)

    (I remember reading that about Thailand but have not been able to find references)

    In he case of Rwanda, President Clinton evacuated everybody (not following the example of Raoul Wallenberg, where he was not a target, just like in Rwanda foreigners were not a target) and also stopped France from helping. Susan Rice played a role in that.

    https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB511

    Washington, DC, April 16, 2015 – Newly declassified Clinton White House e-mails and notes detail a decisive U.S. role in the tragic pullout of United Nations peacekeepers during the first two weeks of the 1994 Rwandan genocide, according to documents and analysis posted today by the National Security Archive at George Washington University on Holocaust Remembrance Day (Yom HaShoah).

    https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/04/16/genocide-under-our-watch-rwanda-susan-rice-richard-clarke

    Genocide Under Our Watch

    Newly declassified White House documents place Richard Clarke and Susan Rice at the forefront of U.S. efforts to limit a robust U.N. peacekeeping operation before and during the 1994 Rwandan genocide.

    Since this doesn’t fit into any traditional anti-American narrative (the most likely motive was placating China – which sold the hatchets used to kill people to Rwanda – ostensibly I’m sure by a private company like fentanyl) you don’t hear much about this.

    International law is often on the side of the murderers and the torturers.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  65. There was minor war fought on the edges of Cambodia from 1979 to 1989 – a war fought for the sake of a vote in the United Nations General Assembly.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  66. Later on, Clinton (to make himself look better) expressed regret)

    From Foreign Policy:

    …President Clinton and his key aides — including National Security Advisor Anthony Lake, U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Madeleine Albright, and Rice, who has since risen to become President Barack Obama’s top national security advisor — have all publicly expressed regret that they didn’t do more to stem the killing.

    But the recently declassified documents — which include more than 200 pages of internal memos and handwritten notes from Rice and other key White House players — provide a far more granular account of how the White House sought to limit U.N. action.

    Not following the model of Raoul Wallenberg at all.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  67. 55. Kevin M (ba5d82) — 5/30/2025 @ 10:59 am

    No nation has the capability to use nuclear weapons in a militarily meaningful way. Unless you call “suicide” meaningful.

    I think China is trying to prove that thesis wrong – but they want some other country to try the experiment first.

    North Korea, Iran, Pakistan

    If any country gets away with it, or of it doesn’t but the retaliation gets condemned and denounced, and Western countries swear that they would never do that, China then has a credible threat against Taiwan.

    So far it’s not really working. No one wants to go first.

    But Iran has hope.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  68. It’s crying over spilled milk to complain about a barely binding agreement signed 31 years ago.

    BS.
    None of this is off-limits to criticism, notwithstanding your misleadingly calling it “crying”.

    Paul Montagu (92c87c)

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