Weekend Open Thread
[guest post by Dana]
What a week. Trump has only been in the Oval for 91 82 days, but my gosh, it feels like a lifetime.
Anyway, let’s go!
First news item
Is everyone okay with this?:
NASDAQ call volume spiked minutes before the 90 day tariff pause was announced.
Not a good look at all. pic.twitter.com/SeF7Hfn2SM
— Spencer Hakimian (@SpencerHakimian) April 10, 2025
Details:
In the wake of President Donald Trump’s announcement Wednesday afternoon that he was pausing country-by-country tariffs by 90 days, some experts. . .are raising questions about a statement he posted earlier in the day that may have indicated the massive sell-off in stocks in recent days was coming to an end.
Not long after trading opened at 9:30 a.m. Wednesday, Trump took to his Truth Social platform and wrote:
“BE COOL! Everything is going to work out well. The USA will be bigger and better than ever before!”
Four minutes later, he wrote:
“THIS IS A GREAT TIME TO BUY!!! DJT”
Just before 1:30 p.m., Trump announced the pause, sending stocks soaring. The tech-heavy Nasdaq index had its biggest one-day gain since 2008, rising nearly 12%, while the S&P 500 climbed 9.5% and the Dow Jones Industrial Average surged 8%, or about 2,800 points.
Richard Painter, chief ethics lawyer for former G.W. Bush, and now teaches government ethics and security regulation, sums up the problem:
Painter said the incident could result in investigations “into who knew what and when before [Trump] announced he was going to postpone the tariffs on all the countries except for China.”
“This was a terrible idea to make those posts,” Painter said of Trump’s suggestion that it was “a great time to buy.”
Painter further admonished Trump, saying, “I would hope that he would focus on doing his job — and try to calm the markets and have a predictable trade policy and let the markets do their thing without the White House giving what appears to be investment advice.”
Second news item
The Trump administration must take steps to return a Maryland resident who was mistakenly deported from the U.S., the Supreme Court ruled on Thursday.
. . .
The high court in an unsigned order with no dissenting votes said the lower court judge “properly requires the Government to ‘facilitate’ Abrego Garcia’s release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent to El Salvador.”
Making plain sense:
Justice Sonia Sotomayor said in an opinion that fellow liberal Justices Elena Kagan and Ketanji Brown Jackson signed onto “the proper remedy is to provide Abrego Garcia with all the process to which he would have been entitled had he not been unlawfully removed to El Salvador.”
How hard do you think the administration will work to make sure the order is followed and they actually ‘facilitate’ Abrego Garcia’s return?
Note:
Yes, the Rule of Law means that allegedly very bad guys–indeed, even indisputably very bad guys–are entitled to proper legal process.
The Trump administration confirmed Saturday that Kilmar Abrego Garcia, a Maryland man illegally deported to El Salvador, is alive but confined in a notorious anti-terrorism prison under the control of the Salvadoran government.
“He is alive and secure in that facility. He is detained pursuant to the sovereign, domestic authority of El Salvador,” Michael Kozak, a top State Department official, said in a two-page, written declaration submitted to a judge under penalty of perjury.
The minimal information Kozak provided fell well short of the details demanded by U.S. District Judge Paula Xinis, who had ordered the Trump administration to update her not only on Abrego Garcia’s whereabouts but on any steps it had taken to facilitate his return to the United States.
Kozak’s update, submitted 10 minutes after a court-ordered deadline Saturday, included just 49 words on Abrego Garcia’s location and no information about what officials had already done or planned to do to correct their error.
Sounds like Trump is making the excuse that the United States is unable to do anything about bringing Abrego-Garcia back to the U.S. because of El Salvador’s “sole” authority.
Third news item
Wow:
Federal officials have begun contacting University of California faculty members for an antisemitism probe after the school complied with a subpoena from the Trump administration seeking the personal information of around 900 faculty members, two UC employees with knowledge of the situation told POLITICO.
The employees, who were granted anonymity to speak candidly, said federal officials have begun reaching out and speaking with faculty members last week, raising concern from faculty that the federal government is trying to pit them against each other as President Donald Trump continues to cut funding from top universities around the country.
Fourth news item
Just stop with the bullshit:
Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. called for people to get the measles vaccine while in the same breath falsely claiming it hasn’t been “safety tested” and its protection is short-lived.
. . .
Kennedy also suggested that measles cases are inevitable in the United States because of ebbing immunity from vaccines — a notion doctors say is false.
“We’re always going to have measles, no matter what happens, as the vaccine wanes very quickly,” Kennedy said.
Why does Kennedy even have this job?
Dr. Paul Offit, director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, said two doses of the measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine offer lifelong protection. That’s because the vaccine stimulates the production of memory cells, he said, which can recognize the virus over a lifetime.
“We eliminated measles from this country. That could never happen if immunity waned,” said Offit, who serves on an independent vaccine advisory committee for the FDA.
Instead of casting doubt upon an effective vaccine, shouldn’t – at the very least – the Health and Human Services Secretary be extolling a proven vaccine and encouraging people to get it? It’s an incredible privilege to have this vaccine readily available in the United States, so why look the gift horse in the mouth.
Fifth news item
First teacher to lose job for breaking Florida’s new rules concerning addressing students:
At the start of the 2023-2024 school year, Florida began requiring educators to get parental permission before calling a student by an alternative to their legal name. Less than two years later, a teacher didn’t comply — and lost her job.
Melissa Calhoun, a teacher at Satellite High School in Brevard County, will not have her contract renewed for the 2025-2026 school year after calling a student by a preferred name without getting a signed form, according to Brevard Public Schools Spokesperson Janet Murnaghan.
Seventh news item
President Zelensky doing what he has to do:
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said on Wednesday that his country is ready to spend up to $50 billion for more US air defenses and aid.
Speaking to local reporters, Zelenskyy framed such a deal as a potential long-standing security arrangement with the US instead of Washington donating stock to Kyiv.
. . .
Zelenskyy previously dismissed the idea of Ukraine retroactively paying for weapons sent in the past.
“But if that issue is raised in the minerals agreement, we will not be taking on old debts,” Zelenskyy said in March. “If it’s about new support, then the United States may impose certain conditions.”
“We understand that this administration won’t do anything for free,” he added.
Note: It’s been one month since Ukraine accepted Trump’s demand for an unconditional ceasefire with Russia. Meanwhile, Russia has repeatedly made it clear, by its endless missile and drone attacks on Ukraine civilian populations, that it never had any intention of agreeing to a ceasefire, let alone abiding by its conditions.
Eighth news item
A Wall Street Journal analysis of daily financial statements issued by the Treasury Department found government spending since the inauguration is $154 billion more than in the same period in 2024 during the administration of former President Joe Biden.
Have a great weekend.
—Dana
Hello.
Dana (519e36) — 4/11/2025 @ 7:21 amRule of Law.
The parents not only did not give permission, per the law, they objected to use of the name. The teacher ignored the parents and she was rewarded for her arrogance. What’s the issue?
lloyd (84c606) — 4/11/2025 @ 7:39 amMy guess is that Mr. Garcia will simply get deported to a different country, in full compliance with the law. The same folks will object, because their outrage was never about the administration disregarding a judge’s order.
lloyd (84c606) — 4/11/2025 @ 7:47 am@3
Actually, they should return him back to Louisiana to conduct the habeas trial, then deport him to 3rd party.
whembly (b7cc46) — 4/11/2025 @ 7:54 amOne Kind of Problem We Don’t Want to Think About:
In Flu, Gina Kolata describes how quickly, and completely, we tried to forget about the great 1918 Flu pandemic. For example:
(p. 52)
Even now, estimates of the deaths, world wide, vary wildly, from about as many as World War I to about as many as World War II. For the US, the losses were, almost certainly, higher than our losses in World War II.
Jim Miller (1e5174) — 4/11/2025 @ 7:55 amMy maternal grandmother and paternal grandfather both were 20 during the Spanish flu and lost their entire families. He was on his way to Europe for the Great War and they sent him home from wherever he was in boot camp.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 4/11/2025 @ 8:42 amLloyd @ 2,
It seems reflexive that you immediately assume there is an issue [with the teacher’s contract being terminated].
Dana (ae15dc) — 4/11/2025 @ 8:44 amFirst news item:
Investigations by whom?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/11/2025 @ 8:49 amDana, I guess you didn’t read the story you linked to.
lloyd (4517df) — 4/11/2025 @ 8:56 amBTW, did we ever find out what happened to JVW? Hope he’s ok.
I was out for a time so if this was already answered, apologies.
lloyd (4517df) — 4/11/2025 @ 8:58 amOf course, I read the story, Lloyd. Don’t presume because I post something that I am against it or for it unless I specifically say. I post what’s interesting to me, what is current, and what I hope will stimulate discussion.
Dana (7e167c) — 4/11/2025 @ 9:03 amDana, I was responding to the story. Who is presuming?
lloyd (7059c2) — 4/11/2025 @ 9:12 amSinking like a rock:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/11/2025 @ 9:15 amWhat a week. Trump has only been in the Oval for 91 days, but my gosh, it feels like a lifetime.
1370 days to go. What’s up next week? War with Iran?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/11/2025 @ 9:15 am“This was a terrible idea to make those posts,” Painter said of Trump’s suggestion that it was “a great time to buy.”
He had to provide cover for those he’d already told. By announcing it when he did, he created chaff for the real crooks to hide in.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/11/2025 @ 9:18 amRegarding measles:
Again, it is a requirement to have the vaccine before entering Kindergarten in TX and, in my experience, even to enter most pre-schools. If unvaccinated kids are being let into school, then that is an issue that has nothing to do with RFK Jr.
If kids are vaccinated and it’s not as effective as thought, then that is an issue that also has very little to do with RFK Jr. directly.
Making it all about RFK Jr is in admission this is about politics not about health.
lloyd (7059c2) — 4/11/2025 @ 9:20 amI’m fine with that.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/11/2025 @ 9:22 amTrump saw the Pelosi’s get away with insider trading for years.
lloyd (7059c2) — 4/11/2025 @ 9:23 amActually, it’s only 81 days, not 91, but it feels way longer than 91 days. It’s like a year has been packed into 2.7 months. I know, I know, they said there’d be no math.
Paul Montagu (84042b) — 4/11/2025 @ 9:25 amYou say that like it’s a bad thing. A sustained bombing campaign against Iran to destroy its nuclear program would benefit the world.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/11/2025 @ 9:27 amBut that would negatively impact 401k’s. That makes it bad.
lloyd (7059c2) — 4/11/2025 @ 9:31 amYes, the Rule of Law means that allegedly very bad guys–indeed, even indisputably very bad guys–are entitled to proper legal process.
We are seeing a number of places where extended process has created incredible backlogs that the same level of process can never clear. What do we do? We dismiss a lot of cases to clear the dockets. What is the result?
In criminal prosecutions we see a increase in crime due to lack of enforcement. We see “bail reform” result in releasing violent people because we don’t have the space or inclination to hold them. In ABQ the situation with catch and release is so bad that the governor has called in the National Guard to help police the city. The problem is not a lack of policing, it is a lack of convicting and incarcerating. People talk about SF and merchants fleeing, but it is happening here, too. In the end it is so much “due process” that the process never completes and/or too many cases are thrown out to clear dockets dishonestly.
Now, we have a situation where, for 3 decades, we have ignored immigration law. We have a President who ran on, and was elected on, a promise to deport some of the millions who took advantage of our fecklessness. Can this be done with the same due process we give those few we actually prosecute for crimes? No, it can’t. I cannot see how that can be disputed (and I suspect that some of those agitating for extended process are doing so to obstruct any deportation).
Obviously we can’t just let the government round up brown-skinned people and ship them off to foreign hellholes; some level of process is needed and the Trumpies can’t be trusted to offer it on their own. But, if we actually want to see a measurable reduction in illegal presence (and the social benefits that provides) we have to come to terms with a more rapid process than we have seen before this year.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/11/2025 @ 9:33 amYou neglected to mention the part where the Supreme Court told the District Court to stop meddling in the Executive Branch’s affairs.
NJRob (73cb17) — 4/11/2025 @ 9:33 amActually, it’s only 81 days
Damn. That adds TEN WHOLE DAYS to Trump’s term.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/11/2025 @ 9:37 amThat’s a big IF. There are many folks who simply don’t want to see a reduction, and will cloak it in due process. It’s time we just admit it even if they won’t. The prior administration knew exactly what it was doing the past four years.
lloyd (7059c2) — 4/11/2025 @ 9:39 amAs for the CA university system…
For the last several years, they have been in the grip of DEI mania, and are currently considering open defiance of federal demands that such discrimination be curtailed. The irony, of course, is that CA has a Constitution that rejects the idea of racially-based decisions:
Not that the current CA government will ever enforce it.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/11/2025 @ 9:48 amAs we have discussed, that would require either the Supreme Court to overturn multiple precedents dating back to 1903 (see the Yamataya v. Fisher, for example) to redefine due process for illegal immigrants (which do not now have the same due process requirements for criminal defendants); or Congress would need to pass legislation implementing a new process.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/11/2025 @ 9:50 amI’m OK with either. What we have now is a suicide pact.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/11/2025 @ 9:52 amNeither are likely to happen.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/11/2025 @ 9:54 amBut, Rip, your assert that the processes that Biden put in place (or at least tolerated) are those that USSC precedent demands. Can you demonstrate that?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/11/2025 @ 9:55 amFor example:
Does an unsanctioned immigrant who has been here for three years, supporting himself with criminal activity and perhaps joining a gang of similarly situated immigrants, fall into this category? Or is the only process he should receive that defined by statute? Which (guessing) would comprise only factual determinations (status, non-predatory community connections, and a reasonable amount of evidence as to the criminal activity).
Does a parole of an unsanctioned immigrant (mostly done due to delay in the immigration court systems) grant them 5th amendment rights to process? Or is their status simply suspended (although giving them time to make those community connections that might serve them later)?
Lastly, Biden did a number of things that previous presidents had not done. Were those previous presidents violating rights?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/11/2025 @ 10:07 amRegarding the Florida teacher, the article said that the new rule (not law, rule since it went through the Board of Education, not the legislature) “doesn’t say what the consequences are for educators who don’t comply”, yet the school district decided that sacking the teacher was the best choice instead of a lesser penalty.
It was apt to compare the two “educators” in the same school district who hosted minors at a house party involving alcohol consumption. They’re being criminally charged, but the school district didn’t sack them but instead put them on paid administrative leave.
Paul Montagu (84042b) — 4/11/2025 @ 10:08 amThe teacher wasn’t sacked. Her contract was up for renewal and is not being renewed.
From the link:
lloyd (7059c2) — 4/11/2025 @ 10:15 amI don’t know about the other teachers you refer to Paul, but it could be a matter of union rules. They should be fired IMO.
lloyd (7059c2) — 4/11/2025 @ 10:17 amFormer Grey’s Anatomy actor diagnosed with ALS:
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/11/2025 @ 10:36 amThey’re being criminally charged, but the school district didn’t sack them but instead put them on paid administrative leave.
Pretty much what the LAUSD does with kiddie rapists.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/11/2025 @ 10:37 amWeird that news about Ukraine/Russia has been quiet af lately….
whembly (b7cc46) — 4/11/2025 @ 10:44 amI’ve never said anything like that; stop making stuff up.
What I have said is that Congress (and the courts) have granted Presidents wide ranging authority to admit or bar) particular classes of aliens (see 8 U.S.C. § 1182(f)). For example, 8 U.S.C. § 1103(a) gives the President (through the Attorney General) the authority to defer the removal of aliens as an act of prosecutorial discretion (“deferred action”, see also 48 C.F.R. 274a.12(c)(14) “an alien who has been granted deferred action, an act of administrative convenience to the government that gives some cases lower priority….”.)
Other authorities that a President has to admit aliens include “parole in place” (“The Secretary of Homeland Security…….in his discretion parole into the United States temporarily under such conditions as he may prescribe only on a case-by-case basis for urgent humanitarian reasons or significant public benefit any alien applying for admission to the United States……”)
There is also Deferred Enforced Departure, which has been used to allow aliens to remain in the United States where a natural disaster or domestic conflict had occurred that made it dangerous for people from those countries to return to them (see 8 USC § 1103(a)). Temporary Protected Status ((8 U.S.C. §1254a(b)(1)) is another authority that gives the DHS Secretary to allow aliens to remain in the United States for a limited amount of time. The difference between Deferred Enforced Departure and Temporary Protected Status is that, unlike TPS, a DED designation emanates from the President’s constitutional powers to conduct foreign relations and has no statutory basis. See here for details.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/11/2025 @ 10:47 am#3 & #4
What either of you suggest would work for me. The guy comes back and is sent off to a country that will take him, in accordance with the process that would be applicable to him. That would affirm rule of law just fine (and give us a path forward on all the other folks who were sent to El Salvador before any habeas).
But Trump’s DOJ seems to want to mess around as much as they can. I think they want a series of rulings that outlines just exactly how much they can get away with. Cute. But it’s better than simply defying the court.
Appalled (b272ac) — 4/11/2025 @ 10:48 amJVW is just fine. Very busy with work/life.
Dana (d8dd80) — 4/11/2025 @ 10:51 am@40
❤️❤️❤️❤️
whembly (b7cc46) — 4/11/2025 @ 10:59 am@39
The problem, as I read it, is that SCOTUS is basically saying “play nice with each other” and try to work together on this.
Fat chance…
I don’t really see any order by SCOTUS that supports the assertion that a district judge can demand the Executive Branch to return that alien.
It’s seems like a gentle rebuke to all parties involved.
whembly (b7cc46) — 4/11/2025 @ 11:01 amFox News WH correspondent Pete Doocy is bird bombed while doing his stand-up on the White House lawn (3:00 mark).
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/11/2025 @ 11:01 amSame difference.
Paul Montagu (84042b) — 4/11/2025 @ 11:02 amThe Dispatch noticed, too, but I suppose these things happen when the most powerful man on earth launches an economic attack on every country but Russia, thereby benefiting Russia.
Google Maps tells me Kharkiv is only 13 miles from the Russian border.
Paul Montagu (84042b) — 4/11/2025 @ 11:18 amwhembly,
The Courts can require that the administration take all steps necessary to facilitate the return of the man. Since El Salvador is holding all of these prisoners on our behest, they really should be able to lay their hands on any of these folks who have been shipped there. The idea that they are unable to do this (even though they can make sexy videos with the Secretary of Homeland Security) does not pass the cynical chuckle test.
If Garcia had simply been released when he got to El Salvador — it’s likely the Maryland Court would have been out of bounds with its ruling.
Appalled (b272ac) — 4/11/2025 @ 11:22 am@38:
And which of these creates a right to 5th amendment protection that they did not have when the status was granted? Are they are still subject to immediate deportation (after ascertaining facts) as they were then?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/11/2025 @ 11:39 amI think you are confusing the Supreme Court precedents that I have mentioned regarding due process with the President’s authority to manage immigration enforcement. Two different things.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/11/2025 @ 11:42 amAppalled,
It is certainly not believable that the Salvadorean government would reject a polite request. Would they hold Trump up for something extra? It would seem unwise.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/11/2025 @ 11:42 amI think you are confusing the Supreme Court precedents that I have mentioned regarding due process with the President’s authority to manage immigration enforcement. Two different things.
Not really. I was trying to make the point that the status quo ante was NOT what the USSC demands, and that Biden’s discretion does not bind a future president. Although some court will.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/11/2025 @ 11:44 amThe WSJ on Trump’s winging it with China…
Biden is also guilty of not joining the TPP.
Paul Montagu (84042b) — 4/11/2025 @ 11:45 amSimpler: If Trump were to revoke all the paroles and deferrals that Biden allowed, what would be the remaining process required before deportation? Would it be more than “Are you this person?”
Would a parolee who refused to comply with a hearing order be at a disadvantage at a future hearing?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/11/2025 @ 11:47 amBy far the biggest problem in the global trading system is the abuse of free-trade rules by the authoritarian regime in China.
It is a big problem, and possibly the biggest problem. But the hollowing out of American industry as Capital sought cheap Labor is also a big problem. Not that tariffs are the best way to attack that; direct taxes might work better.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/11/2025 @ 11:50 amBiden is also guilty of not joining the TPP.
The TPP had a lot of detractors, at least outside the vote-buying copyright cartel.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/11/2025 @ 11:52 amWitkoff isn’t negotiating with Putin, he’s working for him, basically agreeing with Putin’s illegal annexations of four eastern regions.
Witkoff has yet to articulate a single concession that Putin must make. It’s nigh on traitorous.
Paul Montagu (84042b) — 4/11/2025 @ 11:54 amThat clearly indicated that Trump wanted prices to go up.. but it could not distinguish between him conning people (blowing hot air) or actually trying to do something about it to make it go up.
Earlier I mentioned short selling. The best way to make money would be to sell short when you knew Trump was going to announce spectacular tariffs. The short seller has no reason to want prices to go up but is afraid they will go up too much. That could reinforce buying pressure – there is also hedge funds unwinding ior q=winding up bets.
I think Trump really does not want prices to drop too much.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 4/11/2025 @ 12:21 pmNone of the temporary authorities create a due process right; the right to due process is inherent (see Mathews v. Diaz, 426 U.S. 67, 77 (1976) (There are literally millions of aliens within the jurisdiction of the United States. The Fifth Amendment, as well as the Fourteenth Amendment, protects every one of these persons from deprivation of life, liberty, or property without due process of law.) by their presence in the US, which applies to “all ‘persons’ within the United States, including aliens, whether their presence here is lawful, unlawful, temporary, or permanent” (Zadvydas v. Davis, 533 U.S. 678 (2001)). See also Yamataya v. Fisher 189 US 86, (1903), clarifying
Footnotes omitted.
I presume it would be the same type of immigration hearing other illegal aliens receive.
Source, footnotes 2 & 3
I have absolutely no idea, though I would guess that any illegal alien who doesn’t comply with a hearing order would be subject to a deportation order without another hearing.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/11/2025 @ 12:23 pmWell, I can tell that earlier Homan told Bukele not to send him back.
El Salvador President Nayib Bukele to visit the White House on Monday. Now if Trump wants him back, he will surely be let out of prison and be free to leave the country. But how does ajudge supercise this.
Pro-Trump AM radio hosts are not solid on the facts/ One thought he turned state’s evidence But there is nothing really tyoing him to MS-13
Bukele has locked up many of his own citizens. About 10% are estimated to be innocent.
There’s no due process in El Salvador but Bukele has more or less support because of the suffering of people at the hands of these gangs.
I feel there must be some precedent for this.
It is rare for a deported person to be ordered back but Nazi concentration camp guard “Ivan the Terrible” was sent back from Israel (and received) after on appeal he was not found guilty of being at Treblinka (based on a false arguments by his lawyers. The obvious explanation is that he simply did not trust the Nazis to win and used the wrong name (I think his mother’s maiden name – it wasn’
t een really wrong) at first till the Nazis discovered his real name and issued him a new ID card. He was later deported for being a guard at Sobibor. Of course he was free to leave Israel after his trial was over and Israel didn’t want him. (They could have, if the wanted to, rushed his removal to somewhere he didn’t want to go)
https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/former-nazi-death-camp-guard-john-demjanjuk-deported-germany#:~:text=Relying%20principally%20on%20witness%20testimony,he%20was%20tried%20and%20convicted.
Treblinka and Sobibor were both extermination camps, with very little work done and that was mostly for the ease and comfort of the Nazi guards and to handle corpses because the Nazis were afraid of getting a disease with the least littlest contact with a dead person. Thanks probably to scientific fraud perpetrated on them. This fear lasted until the Nazis found out after the July 1944 plot against Hitler. They had written all their “good deeds” down then torture found it and the Nazis destroyed the records before their surrender.
It’s quite true. These accused MS-13 people have ben treated worse than Nazis or people connected to al Qaeda (at least after the US took formal custody of them.)
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 4/11/2025 @ 12:45 pm> I don’t really see any order by SCOTUS that supports the assertion that a district judge can demand the Executive Branch to return that alien.
Per the per curiam opinion https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24a949_lkhn.pdf
“The order properly requires the Government to ‘facilitate’ Abrego Garcia’s release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent to El Salvador.”
This pretty clearly supports the assertion that the District Court had the power to demand that Abrego Garcia be returned.
aphrael (1c02d1) — 4/11/2025 @ 12:55 pmIf measles itself cancels immunity from other diseases,
https://www.uclahealth.org/news/article/measles-infection-can-cause-immune-amnesia#:~:text=Researchers%20have%20found%20that%2C%20after,for%20up%20to%20two%20years.
There is an obvious question: Does the measles vaccine also do that to some degree? It’s a live virus vaccine.
I don’t see how the approval process would have found that out.
It seems that it then might be the best course of action would be to give vaccines in the exact right order. Measles first.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 4/11/2025 @ 12:55 pmBring him back to the country, give him a habeas trial, and then remove him to a country that isn’t El Salvador is *fine* as long as whatever process is required under the law is followed and as long as he is able to require that the government prove that he is who they say he is.
My objection here, notwithstanding Lloyd’s claims otherwise, is to the denial of due process and the violation of a court order. Provide those two things and — while I may disagree with the policy decision — my outrage at the violation of constitutional norms will abate.
aphrael (1c02d1) — 4/11/2025 @ 12:57 pmaphrael (1c02d1) — 4/11/2025 @ 12:55 pm
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 4/11/2025 @ 12:59 pmSorry did not close quote after the word “accepted.”
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 4/11/2025 @ 1:00 pmaphrael (1c02d1) — 4/11/2025 @ 12:57 pm
The big issue is he what they say he is.
So far the main thrust of the Administration has been to insist over and over again that he is gang member.
This happened because Trump was pushing for “mass deportations” and people in government were trying to rack up numbers. (and save money by waiting for planes to fil up)
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 4/11/2025 @ 1:04 pmRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/11/2025 @ 12:23 pm
I think the only people subject to a deportation order without another hearing are those who have received a final order of deportation.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 4/11/2025 @ 1:06 pmFor those keeping score, we now have the Legal Spine Index covering the top 200 law firms, documenting which firms capitulated to Trump, which are standing their ground, and which are keeping their heads down. The number of capitulators is higher than I thought; so far, there are 11 disgraces to the profession, 17 active resisters and 172 wallflowers.
Paul Montagu (84042b) — 4/11/2025 @ 1:08 pmNo, they want to collect as much money from China (actually imports from China) as possible.
Cf The Laffer curve.
And to make zero or low tariff deals with some countries and punish countries who are slow to negotiate.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 4/11/2025 @ 1:10 pmSure, Paul. Perkins Coie, who meddled in an election with outright lies and even misrepresented those lies to the FBI, has a spine. In your world.
LMAO
lloyd (d095f1) — 4/11/2025 @ 1:19 pmOuch!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/11/2025 @ 1:19 pmPerkins Coie, has no choice but to resist (and maybe hope it gets treated like having a spine.)
and putting it another way, doesn’t a law firm that sided in an election with outright lies and even misrepresented those lies to the FBI have a spine? Or something.
But it’s not honest.
A j-federal judge ruled that punishing Perkins Coie amounted to a bill of attainder.
Except that’s passed by a legislature.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 4/11/2025 @ 1:27 pmUpdate: DOJ says it won’t comply with Judge Xinis’ order because the deadline she set is “impracticable.” DOJ is under a court order to provide an update on efforts to bring him to the U.S. from El Salvador by 9:30am.
We are the United States of America. Anything can be done if there’s the will to do it. Having the president call Bukele and tell him that they need to return Abrego Garcia asap is not hard to do. Plus, we are paying them $6 million a year to take these deportees and imprison them. I would think Trump would want to nail Bukele’s hide to the wall and do what he’s told because the US is paying him so much money.
Dana (f415c1) — 4/11/2025 @ 1:34 pmBreaking: Trump Leaves Presidency To Become Even More Powerful District Court Judge.
lloyd (d095f1) — 4/11/2025 @ 1:49 pmAnti-Semitism hardest hit.
Mahmoud Khalil judge says Trump can deport Palestinian activist over Columbia protests
lloyd (d095f1) — 4/11/2025 @ 2:20 pmDelusional MAGA propaganda. Their “crime” was to hire FusinGPS for oppo research.
Paul Montagu (84042b) — 4/11/2025 @ 2:32 pm> DOJ says it won’t comply with Judge Xinis’ order because the deadline she set is “impracticable.”
As a former team lead, “what is your plan to do [x]” is not something I would expect to be able to put together in the time frame between when the order was issued and when the deadline was. So i have *some* sympathy for DoJ on this one.
That said, they should have been working on that plan while the case was at the Supreme Court, as a hedge against the possibility that they’d lose at the Supreme Court. So my sympathy is fairly limited; not having the alternative plan ready strikes me as being terrible, *terrible*, *terrible* lawyering.
Of course it’s possible (maybe likely) that this isn’t on the lawyers but is on others in the administration who aren’t cooperating with the lawyers.
aphrael (1c02d1) — 4/11/2025 @ 2:37 pmAnd not disclose the ties to Hillary. You forgot that.
lloyd (4517df) — 4/11/2025 @ 2:38 pm5th item. Their is a teacher shortage in floriduh along with everywhere else. If teachers walk out in solidarity there would be know one to replace them and other states would ask them to work in their states.
asset (45bcff) — 4/11/2025 @ 2:54 pmI didn’t forget anything. You don’t understand that they’re a law firm, with attorney-client privilege.
They’re not obligated to “disclose their ties to Hillary”, and they’re not obliged to report a deal with FusionGPS. Rather, the Hillary campaign was responsible for that, and she misreported a campaign expense as legal fees in typical Clinton sleaze fashion, using Perkins Coie as a cutout, for which she was later fined $106k by the FEC.
Paul Montagu (84042b) — 4/11/2025 @ 3:00 pmI wonder how Trump supporters will spin the fact that his administration is spending more than the Biden administration did over the same time period.
norcal (cdf133) — 4/11/2025 @ 3:34 pm“As a former team lead, “what is your plan to do [x]” is not something I would expect to be able to put together in the time frame between when the order was issued and when the deadline was. So i have *some* sympathy for DoJ on this one.”
You can read the hearing in this thread (may require a bluesky account): https://bsky.app/profile/annabower.bsky.social/post/3lmkj3raobs2j
The tl;dr is basically the judge is asking for information and the DOJ attorney saying he doesn’t know anything. Judge orders daily status updates including this weekend.
Davethulhu (14e9e4) — 4/11/2025 @ 4:01 pmDo you have any guess on what it is being spent on?
BuDuh (4214e4) — 4/11/2025 @ 4:09 pmPaying for Venezuelans but he is Salvadoran and was thrown in.
Sammy Finkelman (44ac94) — 4/11/2025 @ 4:10 pm“I wonder how Trump supporters will spin the fact that his administration is spending more than the Biden administration did over the same time period.”
They don’t care.
25% of the existing budget debt occurred during Trump’s first term.
Davethulhu (14e9e4) — 4/11/2025 @ 4:12 pmAll of Elon/Doge’s claimed savings were consumed by the military budget increase.
The planned tax cuts will (just like the ones during his first term) not pay for themselves.
More:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/11/2025 @ 4:14 pmDana provided a link at item 8.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/11/2025 @ 4:18 pmGood! Then you can provide a fair and balanced summary.
BuDuh (4214e4) — 4/11/2025 @ 4:27 pmA j-federal judge ruled that punishing Perkins Coie amounted to a bill of attainder.
Except that’s passed by a legislature.
Maybe they delegated that power to the executive along with all the rest.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/11/2025 @ 4:28 pmSince Dana posted a link, I have no intention to repeat her post.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/11/2025 @ 4:29 pmI have absolutely no idea, though I would guess that any illegal alien who doesn’t comply with a hearing order would be subject to a deportation order without another hearing.
Probably he’d get a hearing to determine if he didn’t comply with the previous hearing order.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/11/2025 @ 4:31 pmAll I see at the link are totals. I don’t see anything specific. My browser is old. It compresses and overlays some of the data.
Would you do me a favor, Rip, and just tell me if there are specifics at the provided link? Please.
BuDuh (4214e4) — 4/11/2025 @ 4:36 pmThere are specifics, with graphs.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/11/2025 @ 4:37 pm…that “an alien who has entered the country, and has become subject in all respects to its jurisdiction, and a part of its population”
Nice obfuscation, Rip.
To recap: Immigrant is caught at the border after just crossing illegally. He has no rights to remain in the country and they can send him back the same hour he arrived.
OR, they can grant him parole, also without a hearing. OR, they can allow him in on an asylum claim pending a later hearing. But according to what you cite, in either case he has NOW (and only NOW) “entered the country” and gained all the rights of any resident.
Other citations I read say “not so fast” — it is only when he makes real connections into a community that he gains the status of residency. And that determines what showing the state must make to deport. For example, the parole agreement has revocation rules and people can be deported from that status as an administrative matter, subject only to showing some basic facts.
I think you are using the term “due process” without any reference to what process is due and implying it’s the same in every situation. It isn’t.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/11/2025 @ 4:42 pm“My browser is old”?
Paul Montagu (84042b) — 4/11/2025 @ 4:49 pmThat’s a new one.
It’s not my obfuscation; I am only using the term “due process” as it defined by the cited Supreme Court cases; you on the other hand want a form of “due process” that doesn’t exist in the law.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/11/2025 @ 4:54 pm@84 “They don’t care”
I hope Democrats, who haven’t cared for decades, can get over their outrage.
lloyd (5e0f10) — 4/11/2025 @ 4:56 pmhttps://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoftedge/forum/all/edge-does-not-display-some-content-from-wall/f31cd4eb-faef-449d-8506-a66b00a77f96
BuDuh (4214e4) — 4/11/2025 @ 5:05 pmStrange things happen all the time, Paul.
BuDuh (4214e4) — 4/11/2025 @ 5:06 pm“I hope Democrats, who haven’t cared for decades, can get over their outrage.”
Do you care, lloyd?
the deficit growth under Trump (4 years) was about the same as the deficit growth under Obama (8 years)
Davethulhu (14e9e4) — 4/11/2025 @ 5:09 pmRip, are the numbers in this article a match of some of the WSJ numbers?
BuDuh (4214e4) — 4/11/2025 @ 5:17 pmI care, but not enough to self flagellate.
The game where Republicans take the blame for trying to make Democrat programs sustainable stopped being fun, other than for folks like you. Looks like Trump got wise to it.
Do you care? Weird how you care so much that you don’t ever seem to offer a solution.
lloyd (ad7579) — 4/11/2025 @ 5:37 pmItem 5:
I think they are writing about the story in the middle of it. I went and read their teacher’s contract and you can’t decline to renew a teacher without following the proper procedure, which includes a Board review. Unless it happened quite long ago (I read the board meeting agendas back through to the beginning of February), the board has not reviewed this action. So, they are still in the middle of things or the district is going to have a grievance filed against it for not following contract.
Some observations: The state is looking to yank her teaching certificate. (I have talked about this issue before) but honestly if she moves she can probably get employment elsewhere. She’s a fairly young AP level HS English teacher, there are definitely jobs out there. Also I would not be surprised if this turned into a court case against the state.
Since she’s an AP English teacher, the student may be relatively older, 17 or 18. If the student is 18 this could turn into a different kettle of fish but even if not, older teens often have the legal right to consent to a variety of things and that may contradict this particular edcode.
The edcode contains a provision that a teacher does not have to tell parents if they believe it would lead to the abuse or neglect of the child.
It is possible this is going to get messier than Brevard Public Schools intended it to.
Nic (120c94) — 4/11/2025 @ 6:03 pmIt worked for me on Edge the same as Chrome.
Paul Montagu (84042b) — 4/11/2025 @ 6:50 pmHow odd.
“The game where Republicans take the blame for trying to make Democrat programs sustainable stopped being fun, other than for folks like you. Looks like Trump got wise to it.”
When did this ever happen? Whenever Republicans come into power, they stop caring about the budget.
“Do you care? Weird how you care so much that you don’t ever seem to offer a solution.”
i’m just playing the game according to your rules.
Davethulhu (88148c) — 4/11/2025 @ 7:05 pmOh, never.
LOL They’re your rules, remember? And anyway, only Nixon could go to China.
lloyd (5e0f10) — 4/11/2025 @ 7:15 pmI hope the parents are prepared to leave the country.
The “abuse and neglect” game is well known. Refusing to acknowledge the child’s new name is conveniently evidence itself of abuse and neglect, no?
lloyd (5e0f10) — 4/11/2025 @ 7:21 pm“Oh, never.”
Republicans clearly not in power here.
“LOL They’re your rules, remember?”
They’re the rules of the *~Party of Fiscal Responsibility~*
Davethulhu (88148c) — 4/11/2025 @ 7:25 pmSo, you don’t have a solution. Davethulhu, admit it, you don’t care — other than as a cudgel to hit conservatives with.
lloyd (5e0f10) — 4/11/2025 @ 7:34 pm“So, you don’t have a solution. Davethulhu, admit it, you don’t care — other than as a cudgel to hit conservatives with.”
My solution is “Republicans should stop lying about their concern for the debt/deficit”. I don’t think they’re going to take my advice though, the suckers that vote for them seem to love it.
Davethulhu (88148c) — 4/11/2025 @ 7:47 pmLike I said….
lloyd (5e0f10) — 4/11/2025 @ 7:50 pm@lloyd@106 Depends on the situation. However my point was that there are a number of things that Brevard Public schools didn’t necessarily consider in taking their current path, which they probably thought would be quiet and avoid bad publicity.
Nic (120c94) — 4/11/2025 @ 7:55 pmI don’t know why it jumbled everything. It is as if a different aspect ratio, or something, is cramming too much detail into too little space.
I did look elsewhere and posted a link above. Will you please confirm if the information in the link I posted matches the WSJ? Thanks in advance.
BuDuh (4214e4) — 4/11/2025 @ 8:19 pmJust watched “all the presidents men.” With bezo owning wa po he would tell the editor, story is two dangerous to my other businesses spike it! Large washington law firms caving to trump’s threats as are corporations and state governments. The only part of capitalism standing up to trump is the bond market.
asset (821d48) — 4/11/2025 @ 10:16 pmI care about the budget. It’s one of the main reasons I supported Republicans. I really wanted Romney and Ryan to win because I believed they had both a sincere interest in balancing the budget and the knowledge and experience to make progress on it. I was pleased when Trump picked Paul Ryan, and his associate rinse whatever his name was to be part of his first administration/inner circle. But it didn’t pan out.
Now there is no major political party that appears to sincerely care about balancing the budget. Democrats don’t even pretend to care, and as near as I can tell Republicans don’t care enough to take the actions necessary. Or perhaps they care a little bit and mostly want to use it as a tool or pretax to attack programs, they dislike for other reasons.
I do have to acknowledge that the only people in government who demonstrate that budgetary discipline as a priority at a consistent basis are in the Republican Party. But they are a minority within the party, and it’s been clear in both of Trump‘s administration that he’s unwilling to support that in the face of other priorities.
Time (c471a2) — 4/12/2025 @ 8:46 amAnother Trump tariff concession:
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/12/2025 @ 8:54 amNothing like daily changes to tariff policy to give companies that fuzzy warm feeling about their long-term plans.
Kevin M (462cce) — 4/12/2025 @ 9:46 amThe Republican majorities in both houses of Congress have been irresponsible in relinquishing their authority on tariffs to the executive branch.
It was relinquished long ago and by Democrats. To get it back now would take overriding a veto and/or a USSC climbdown on a 50-year-old mistake.
Kevin M (462cce) — 4/12/2025 @ 9:48 amhttps://x.com/CDP1882/status/1910565946307002560
D8versity at the expense of children. The officials engaging in the cover up must be prosecuted and jailed.
NJRob (af56f2) — 4/12/2025 @ 9:58 amAs well as overcoming a filibuster.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/12/2025 @ 10:09 amI’m sure some Republicans voted to delegate tariff authority to the President. There have Republican majority Congresses in the past, and they did nothing.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/12/2025 @ 10:15 amWhy would Head Cheerleader Bondi do this?
Smirnov is nothing short of a flight risk. Maybe Putin passed along his request to Comrade Witkoff.
Paul Montagu (84042b) — 4/12/2025 @ 10:22 amSurrendering prematurely the reciprocal tariffs, and now exempting electronics from China, snows that Trump isn’t serious.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/12/2025 @ 10:22 amIf Trump’s trade war is”all about China”, why has he exempted computers, chips, smartphones, TVs, etc from his China tariffs? It makes no sense.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/12/2025 @ 10:27 amAgain, the due process standards for hearings conducted by immigration judges is unrelated to the prosecutorial discretion allowed by US Immigration law.
For example, the hearing in Louisiana that found Mahmoud Khalil can be deported presumably met the standards as laid out by the Supreme Court. But since immigration judges are part of Department of Justice and are not appointed under Article III of the Constitution, the result is not surprising. No doubt Khalil will appeal to a District Court in Louisiana.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/12/2025 @ 11:16 am> Why would Head Cheerleader Bondi do this?
Because he was prosecuted for crimes committed for the purpose of harming Trump’s enemies and/or for the purpose of helping Trump, and in Trumpland that means the prosecution was unjust.
Criminal activity carried out by Trump or his allies is not actually criminal activity, I should think that was abundantly clear by now.
aphrael (e73b7a) — 4/12/2025 @ 11:22 am> It’s one of the main reasons I supported Republicans.
Republicans have not cared about the budget in a long time; they’ve been willing for at least twenty years to cut taxes without cutting spending, thereby *increasing* the deficit.
aphrael (e73b7a) — 4/12/2025 @ 11:24 am@Rip@124 It doesn’t fit his narrative about manufacturing either. One would think we’d like consumer electronics to go back to being manufactured in the US.
Nic (120c94) — 4/12/2025 @ 11:34 amI’m sure some Republicans voted to delegate tariff authority to the President. There have Republican majority Congresses in the past, and they did nothing.
It was done in the 30’s. Smoot-Hawley mandated tariffs on many things and when Congress tried to repeal parts of it, Hoover vetoed. In 1934, Congress decided to grant significant tariff power to FDR. Later acts delegated more, but all with the Congress retaining a single-house veto.
https://www.usconstitution.net/executive-tariff-authority/ (although for some reason they neglect the legislative veto entirely).
Kevin M (a09364) — 4/12/2025 @ 11:35 amSurrendering prematurely the reciprocal tariffs, and now exempting electronics from China, snows that Trump isn’t serious.
WHat it shows is that there is no plan, unless it has to do with insider trading.
Kevin M (a09364) — 4/12/2025 @ 11:36 amNo doubt Khalil will appeal to a District Court in Louisiana.
Repeat this process for the other 5 million that need deporting.
Kevin M (a09364) — 4/12/2025 @ 11:37 amthey’ve been willing for at least twenty years to cut taxes without cutting spending, thereby *increasing* the deficit.
They have indeed given up on cutting spending, but that’s because they can’t without the Democrats agreeing. If they can’t cut taxes and spending, they’ll just cut taxes. Is it irresponsible? Sure. But sometimes the responsible things are not available and you just have politics.
As for increasing the deficit, well, not everything is a zero-sum game.
Kevin M (a09364) — 4/12/2025 @ 11:40 amAnd in 1962 and 1974. From your link:
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/12/2025 @ 11:44 amI think Cantor Fitzgerald, Secretary of Commerce Howard Lutnick’s investment firm, could tell us all the reasons for the so-called tariffs.
nk (7d04c4) — 4/12/2025 @ 11:48 amCongress has the authority to make changes to the immigration court process, and since Republicans have a majority in both houses, they can make changes to speed up the process.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/12/2025 @ 11:49 amMahmoud Khalil’s natural born American citizen wife has a right to her husband.
nk (7d04c4) — 4/12/2025 @ 12:22 pmHere’s the latest status on Trump’s Master Tariff Strategy…
A 25% average tariff rate by Trump is still in Smoot-Hawley territory and still portends economic disaster. The best we can hope is that this president folds like origami.
Paul Montagu (84042b) — 4/12/2025 @ 12:26 pmNot here.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/12/2025 @ 12:44 pmIt’s more likely that Congress would override a veto (or suspend the filibuster for this issue), which is something they have power to do than the Supreme Court “climbing down” on INS v. Chada, which they cannot do on their own.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/12/2025 @ 12:52 pmAnd in 1962 and 1974. From your link:
Then in 1983 they lost the legislative veto.
Kevin M (7338fd) — 4/12/2025 @ 12:57 pmMahmoud Khalil’s natural born American citizen wife has a right to her husband.
She does, and Trump cannot stop her from leaving.
Kevin M (7338fd) — 4/12/2025 @ 12:58 pmthey cannot do on their own.
It would take Congress to pass a veto-authorizing law first. As I said, the Chadha decision was a trap door which should not have passed the severability test.
Kevin M (7338fd) — 4/12/2025 @ 1:02 pmHowever, passing such a law at this point would be easier than at some other point, as the Democrats would be on board (getting back the legislative veto is a genuine bipartisan goal, but is always hampered by gored oxen). It would require the GOP Congressmen to break with Trump, which will become more likely as the administration finds more and deeper ditches to drive into.
Kevin M (7338fd) — 4/12/2025 @ 1:07 pm1) Democrats would be in favor only to extent they could use the legislative veto against Trump; when they regain the Presidency not so much.
2) There would be no guarantee the Supreme Court would reverse its decision.
3) All water under the bridge. I haven’t heard anyone in Congress say “if only if INS v. Chada had gone the other way we would have been able to veto Trump’s tariffs.”
Rip Murdock (a82e3d) — 4/12/2025 @ 1:28 pmRight now Congress can veto Trump’s tariffs, they just need to pass a law as the Constitution intended.
Rip Murdock (a82e3d) — 4/12/2025 @ 1:31 pmMore about our short-sightedness on Asian trade.
Trump and Biden both rejected this.
Paul Montagu (84042b) — 4/12/2025 @ 1:47 pmNot quite true. The US did sign the TPP agreement while Obama was President, but it wasn’t presented to Congress for a vote because it became an issue in the 2016 presidential campaign (Hillary Clinton also opposed TPP).
President Trump during his first term pulled the US out the unratified agreement. TPP was a dead letter as far as the US was concerned.
Biden wanted to renegotiate the environmental and labor provisions, but that wasn’t going to happen after all the work that went into it. Had the US ratified the TPP during the Biden administration (an unlikely prospect), Trump would have pulled the US as soon as he became president.
Rip Murdock (a82e3d) — 4/12/2025 @ 2:25 pmSee here for a summary of the history of the TPP.
Rip Murdock (a82e3d) — 4/12/2025 @ 2:33 pmTTP’s obituary; it had no chance of passing in 2016, or ever. The politics had changed.
Rip Murdock (a82e3d) — 4/12/2025 @ 2:38 pm@114 The government used to do a lot less that conservatives wanted not done. Hoover was your man who didn’t believe in government intervention except to break up coal mine strikes and having the military open fire on the bonus army on the washington mall. Anarchists were big back then blowing up the stock market and shooting presidents. Good read: Social history of the machine gun. In 1932 the communist party got over million votes for president and people in Kansas and Iowa were storing food in cellars fearing a communist revolution! FDR came along and said we don’t have to shoot the rich just expand government services and tax the rich. This is why conservatives oppose violence on the left because people who have nothing to lose have a advantage. Mother Jones san francisco general strike. She shoved the machine guns aside aimed at the strikers.
asset (80fe8e) — 4/12/2025 @ 2:57 pmBond market vs trump guess who just submitted?
asset (80fe8e) — 4/12/2025 @ 2:59 pmAll is not lost for Mahmoud Khalil. His free speech and due process claims will go before federal judge Michael Farbiarz who is …(drumroll)… a Biden appointee.
lloyd (f80e9a) — 4/12/2025 @ 3:26 pmI’ve updated Item 2 in the post.
Dana (51607a) — 4/12/2025 @ 3:56 pm“Kilmar Abrego Garcia, a Maryland man”
LOL
lloyd (f80e9a) — 4/12/2025 @ 4:08 pmRIP Canadian film director Ted Kotcheff (91):
I’ve seen Wake in Fright, one of the weirdest movies you’ll ever see, culminating in an actual kangaroo slaughter.
Rip Murdock (a82e3d) — 4/12/2025 @ 5:37 pmThe government should have included “proof of life” with a photograph of him holding today’s La Prensa Gráfica or El Diario de Hoy newspapers.
Rip Murdock (a82e3d) — 4/12/2025 @ 5:53 pmCorrection, Ted Kotcheff was 94 when he died.
Rip Murdock (a82e3d) — 4/12/2025 @ 5:56 pmWhat a week. Trump has only been in the Oval for 91 days, but my gosh, it feels like a lifetime.
And he has yet to shoot someone on Fifth Avenue.
nk (7d04c4) — 4/12/2025 @ 6:46 pmRIP child actor Claude Jarman, Jr. (90):
Rip Murdock (a82e3d) — 4/12/2025 @ 7:07 pm@nk@158 That we know of.
Nic (120c94) — 4/12/2025 @ 7:42 pmI thought posters here were smart ;but so little comment on what the bond market did to trump this week. They showed him who the real boss is. Don’t you all here comprehend what just happened?
asset (163fa1) — 4/12/2025 @ 8:11 pmhttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/04/12/america-risks-paying-moron-premium-thanks-to-trumps-tariffs/
nk (cebce3) — 4/12/2025 @ 8:32 pmSenate and house republicans we don’t dare cross trump! Stock market, big business/billionaires, big law firms and state governments We can’t either! Bond traders/bond market “Hold my beer!” Trump you want tariffs then we want the 34 trillion we loaned U.S. back now!
asset (163fa1) — 4/12/2025 @ 9:21 pm> Trump has only been in the Oval for 91 days
How do you figure?
11 days in January
28 days in February
31 days in March
12 days in April
looks like 82 days to me?
aphrael (11078a) — 4/12/2025 @ 11:15 pm“if only if INS v. Chada had gone the other way we would have been able to veto Trump’s tariffs.”
Maybe you should ask them.
Kevin M (e52aa7) — 4/12/2025 @ 11:29 pmRight now Congress can veto Trump’s tariffs, they just need to pass a law as the Constitution intended.
The Constitution intended them to have the sole power to set tariffs. Right there in Article I, Section 8, at the top.
Kevin M (e52aa7) — 4/12/2025 @ 11:30 pm@166 the bond market just did it for congress.
asset (163fa1) — 4/13/2025 @ 12:45 amSigh.
No, comrade. Donnie climbed up the refrigerator to reach the cookie jar and in the process spilled the cookies and broke the icemaker and now water is leaking out all over the kitchen floor.
It may be a failure for Donnie, but neither is it a win for the cookie jar or the icemaker or for the rest of the family.
nk (cebce3) — 4/13/2025 @ 2:42 amNo argument from me; Congress does have the power to re-write Trump’s tariffs but they are too cowardly to do so (as long as there is a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate and a veto-proof majority in both chambers.)
But the Supreme Court has upheld the delegations of Congress’s tariff setting authority to the President since the 1890s, with the two most important precedents being decided in 1892 and 1935:
Footnotes omitted; paragraph breaks added.
Rip Murdock (3652c9) — 4/13/2025 @ 8:42 amMore:
Footnotes omitted; paragraph breaks added.
Rip Murdock (3652c9) — 4/13/2025 @ 8:58 amTwo weeks ago, the WSJ had a short article on the Loser pardoning Trevor Milton “who had been convicted of fraud in federal court for what prosecutors said were his lies to investors about his zero-emission trucks.”
According to prosecutors Milton “created a video of what appeared to be truck driving normally–but it was really an inoperable prototype rolling down a hill.”
Milton is being represented by Brad Bondi, Pam’s brother.
“Milton and his wife donated more than $1.8 million to a Trump fundraising committee in October.”
His company, Nikola, had a market value that “briefly eclipsed that of automaker Ford”.
He still faces civil penalties from the SEC.
Jim Miller (3bcd91) — 4/13/2025 @ 9:40 amMilton is being represented by Brad Bondi, Pam’s brother.
“Milton and his wife donated more than $1.8 million to a Trump fundraising committee in October.”
Which is why I am not all that excited about Trump “going after” Big Law, blacklisting some of them. They are part of the swamp and their main products are access and influence.
nk (3b34cf) — 4/13/2025 @ 9:53 am‘This Week’ Transcript 4-13-25
Paragraph breaks added.
Rip Murdock (3652c9) — 4/13/2025 @ 12:32 pmNew pet peeve — AI search engines
A number of times recently I’ve tried to get an answer to a complex technical question, by Googling a carefully constructed search, and had the AI that Google uses dumb down the search into the simplest possible (and totally wrong) query. It’s very frustrating. I guess if you don’t know how to use a search engine, it’s helpful, but having quotes and NOTs disappear is maddening.
Kevin M (44d348) — 4/13/2025 @ 2:33 pmTRUMP: I know what the hell I’m doing. I know what I’m doing. And you know what I’m doing, too. That’s why you vote for me.
Fredo: I can handle things! I’m smart! Not like everybody says… like dumb… I’m smart and I want respect!
Kevin M (44d348) — 4/13/2025 @ 2:35 pmholding that the challenged provision “does not, in any real sense, invest the president with the power of legislation.” …………it made the President “the mere agent of the law-making department.” Thus, the Court explained, the challenged provision called upon the President not to make law but simply to execute a law enacted by Congress.
This doesn’t pass the laugh test today.
The Court held that the challenged provision was “not a forbidden delegation of legislative power” since it set forth “an intelligible principle to which the person or body authorized to fix [tariff] rates is directed to conform”…
Suppose he isn’t comforming? As for intelligible principle, what pray tell is that?
Congress does have the power to re-write Trump’s tariffs but they are too cowardly to do so
Supposedly they are not Trump’s tariffs, but Congresses through their clear and limited delegation. Although what that limit might be is a mystery.
Kevin M (44d348) — 4/13/2025 @ 2:42 pmThey are part of the swamp and their main products are access and influence.
And, of course, intimidation. That Big Law would complain of Trump intimidating them must have MAGA rolling on the floor. Karma is a bi*ch.
Kevin M (44d348) — 4/13/2025 @ 2:45 pmIf the tariffs aren’t “conforming” presumably the Supreme Court could overturn the tariffs, but that’s never happened to date
Defending the tariffs authorized under the IEEEA will be tougher than under other congressional authorities, but I can see the administration arguing that the “intelligible principle” is national security, such as re-shoring strategic industries .
However, it will be at least a year before the Supreme Court gets any chance to decide what it means.
Rip Murdock (3652c9) — 4/13/2025 @ 6:46 pmCongrats to Mr. McIlroy, winning in sudden death after choking on the 18th (but after a phenomenal on the 17th).
What an amazing day for golf (yes, I love to watch golf and I watched all four days of the Masters because the course is incredible and it’s an ultimate challenger the players).
Rory made history as he’s only one of six players in history to win a Grand Slam, meaning winning all four majors over their careers, that’s how tough it is. The other five are Gene Sarazen, Ben Hogan, Gary Player, Nicklaus and Tiger. It’s rarified air.
It’s a great time of year for sports, starting with the NCAA tournament, then Augusta, then we can catch a little baseball.
Paul Montagu (84042b) — 4/13/2025 @ 10:26 pm…phenomenal birdie on the 17th…
Paul Montagu (84042b) — 4/13/2025 @ 10:44 pm#169
The tariffs imposed by Trump arguably are not authorized by the statute he is using. The question in play now isn’t whether Congress can delegate its authority to the executive — the question is whether Congress really handed over the tariff making power to Trump if he can conjure up a bogus emergency for the purpose.
We may see in the next few days whether the Supreme Court will actually directly oppose Trump on anything he wants, should the El Salvador deportation issue come back to them. Being able to transport citizens and non-citizens to a pet dictatorship and strand them there without a hearing is kind of a huge loophole in our constitutional rights.
Appalled (466507) — 4/14/2025 @ 7:20 amAppalled, what citizens were transported? Do you have any names?
lloyd (eef0f8) — 4/14/2025 @ 7:43 am>Appalled, what citizens were transported? Do you have any names?
Trump has openly talked about wanting to send citizens there, and the logic used in the court decisions makes no distinction between citizens and non-citizens.
Either a court has the power to compel the administration to return someone sent to a foreign torture camp or it doesn’t. The administration is arguing that the court has no such power.
aphrael (b57129) — 4/14/2025 @ 7:55 amLloyd,
What’s at stake with the current back and forth between the Courts and the Administration is the principle that the Administration may move someone out of the country (by an oopsie) and then take no apparent action to try to retrieve them. Do you disagree? Trump is fighting awfully hard for this principle (as of 11:05 AM on 4/14). At best, he is feeling out just exactly what he can get the courts to accept in the case of governmental violation of the individual’s rights.
And then we have this:
“I’d love that,” he said when asked by reporters Sunday aboard Air Force One about a proposal from El Salvador’s president to take in convicted US citizens into the country’s high-security mega prison. “If they can house these horrible criminals for a lot less money than it costs us, I’m all for it, but I’d only do according to the law, but I have suggested that, you know, why should it stop just to people that cross the border illegally?”
https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/09/politics/deportees-el-salvador-prison-trump/index.html
The link between the two of these isn’t that hard to make. And “Trump wouldn’t do that — you can’t believe he’d do that, prove he’d do that” isn’t a persuasive argument.
Appalled (466507) — 4/14/2025 @ 8:09 amFundamentally, at this point, what’s at stake is whether constitutional rights mean *anything*. If the government can send someone to an overseas torture camp in violation of a court order and can’t be required to undo the action … that’s game, right there. The fourth amendment ceases to have any meaning, and so do all of the other amendments protecting individual rights.
Personally, I believe the Supreme Court will cave because it knows that Trump will simply ignore it, and at that point the US ceases to be a free country, regardless of our self-image or our claims … because our so-called “rights” are at that point nothing more than privileges to be withdrawn at the whim of the government.
aphrael (b57129) — 4/14/2025 @ 8:37 am#185
The Trump administration is fighting hard for the principle that, once the body is outside the US, even by mistake, they do not have to take any publicly disclosed actions to get the person back into US custody.
They want the courts to endorse this BAD. Because it would just be so easy to, right now, ask El Salvador to send the guy back, and be done with this drama.
Draw your own conclusions on why Trump’s folks want this precedent, and whether the Supremes will ultimately let them have it.
Appalled (466507) — 4/14/2025 @ 8:51 amSo, you don’t have any names. Just lying for effect, I guess.
The link is very hard to make, unless one is engaged in citizen deportation fantasy camp. (h/t Rip)
Appalled, would you rather be deported or killed by a drone strike? The latter has actually happened to American citizens by prior administrations without due process. No strained link is necessary. Show me your comments here where you stridently claimed that any of us are next.
lloyd (b2f488) — 4/14/2025 @ 9:00 am> The link is very hard to make
Trump is openly saying he wants to send citizens to torture camps abroad, his lawyers are arguing in court that the courts can’t compel the administration to return someone *mistakenly* sent to a torture camp abroad … and you think the link is hard to make?
Are you blind or are you lying?
aphrael (b57129) — 4/14/2025 @ 9:07 amEither a court has the power to compel the administration to return someone sent to a foreign torture camp or it doesn’t.
This is a little complicated by the fact that the person of interest is a citizen of the receiving country.
Kevin M (a09364) — 4/14/2025 @ 9:11 amI think that, in the end, “due process” requires *some* process where relevant facts are ascertained.
Kevin M (a09364) — 4/14/2025 @ 9:12 amLloyd,
What’s the lie? Please be specific, using my words and what you deem to be a lie. Or retract. You pulled that on Patterico, you would have been banned.
The statement I think you object to is a conditional prediction, based on what the Supremes might do on El Salvador and what Trump said he wants to do regarding putting people in jail in El Salvador for crimes other than crossing the border illegally. I suggested citizens might be deported to El Salvador and stranded there, based on the legal logic Trump’s DOJ is fighting so hard for. If you don’t agree with that opinion, I am happy to engage directly on the issue.
Appalled (466507) — 4/14/2025 @ 9:29 am> This is a little complicated by the fact that the person of interest is a citizen of the receiving country.
The argument being presented by the government’s lawyers does not hinge on that distinction at all, they are arguing that since the person of interest is in a foreign jail, anything involving that person of interest falls within the president’s plenary power to conduct foreign affairs, and therefore a court *cannot reach it*.
The administration’s *open position* is that as soon as a person of interest is out of the country, American court jurisdiction ends, *even if that person’s removal was unlawful under American law*.
If that is true then there is *zero* effective legal or procedural bar against the administration picking up *anyone it wants* and dispatching them to CECOT to be murdered.
This is the biggest threat to civil rights since the inception of the Republic.
aphrael (b57129) — 4/14/2025 @ 9:38 am> Appalled, would you rather be deported or killed by a drone strike?
The issue isn’t just *deportation*, it’s *removal to a torture prison*.
I’m pretty sure that i’d rather be killed by a drone strike than dispatched to CECOT with no pathway to ever getting out.
aphrael (b57129) — 4/14/2025 @ 9:45 am#189
I agree with the complication and also the practical impact that El Salvador would have to agree to the guy’s return. The problem is that the US administration is obligated to take steps to attempt to secure this man’s release.
This is going to prove important once we get to a similar case involving someone from the Tren de Augua bunch, who are held there pursuant to an agreement between the US and El Salvador.
Appalled (466507) — 4/14/2025 @ 9:45 amThe tariffs are not “Congresses”; they did not pass a tariff bill (as was done prior to 1934) to impose these specific tariffs.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/14/2025 @ 9:50 amI can easily imagine the Administration deporting, without a hearing (and in the dead of night), a citizen to a third country; and then telling a court that “Yeah, it was an administrative error, but it’s not our problem, as they are out of our control” which is the essence of the Administration’s argument. It’s less of a “fantasy camp” than thinking Trump will be impeached again, or that the Supreme Court will overrule a 50-year old Supreme Court decision on its own.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/14/2025 @ 10:03 amhttps://x.com/atrupar/status/1911824313553928513
Yes, a very difficult link to make.
Davethulhu (14e9e4) — 4/14/2025 @ 10:26 am@191 Implying that citizens are involved in these deportations is a lie.
The attempt of this lie, of course, is to blur the lines between citizen and non-citizens. That any action against non-citizens (a “Maryland man” no less) threatens citizens, therefore everyone. It’s silly.
Appalled, in a post-Obama world, are any of us safe from a drone strike?
lloyd (00f908) — 4/14/2025 @ 10:27 amAgain, I’ve been attacked with all sorts of names here. Despite the clear violation of the commenting rules, no one got banned. But, throw up the bat signal to the host. It might work.
lloyd (f62b34) — 4/14/2025 @ 10:29 amhttps://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3lmrwfqbb3w27
Davethulhu (14e9e4) — 4/14/2025 @ 10:39 amLloyd,
I use a philosophy here — don’t call any fellow poster a liar. It’s a good idea that you should consider. If for no other reason than you probably do not want to be a jerk.
What you object to is a concern that Trump will (i) send citizens to El Salvador prisons [he said as much today — see the link at #197] and (ii) claim, once the citizens are sent, he can’t lay hands on them because they belong to El Salvador and we do not have to take steps to try to get them back.
(ii) is a concern about something Trump might do. He has not done it yet. It is the logic of Trump’s DOJ:
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mdd.578815/gov.uscourts.mdd.578815.65.0.pdf
The language here basically is “we admitted a mistake and you can’t make us work with El Salvador to try to fix it.” Is that reasonable?
Your thoughts, beyond look out for drones, are solicited.
Appalled (ae7092) — 4/14/2025 @ 11:22 amTV Tantrum:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/14/2025 @ 11:23 am> @191 Implying that citizens are involved in these deportations is a lie.
Nobody is implying the current deportations involve citizens.
We are stating:
(a) the President has said he wants to remove citizens to the same torture camp;
(b) the President’s lawyers are making legal arguments that do not distinguish between this case and a case involving a citizen, arguing that once the individual (citizen or not) is removed to the torture camp, courts no longer have authority.
You are consistently refusing to engage with this statement and instead are deflecting to the incorrect claim that people are lying about the current deportations.
aphrael (3456ea) — 4/14/2025 @ 11:36 am@192
Hmmm…
No…
That was the droning of US Citizens during the Obama administration as the biggest civil rights since the inception of the Republic.
Be honest. This isn’t a case whereby someone saw someone with brown skin being picked up and sent to the gulag with zero due process.
The person saw at least 3 (if not more) separate hearings and eventually received a removal order.
That has never changed.
The removal order was still active as far as I know.
What he also had, was an order that he couldn’t be shipped back home. That was the mistake, which this administration did attest to.
The issue, really isn’t about due process.
The issue is really about the tug of war between the Judiciary and the Executive.
whembly (b7cc46) — 4/14/2025 @ 11:47 amYes.
Courts cannot (nor should they) make the executive to work with foreign government. (unless there’s a treaty involved).
Could the court encourage the executives to do so? Sure.
But they don’t have any power to force the executive.
whembly (b7cc46) — 4/14/2025 @ 11:50 amNo comment from 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/14/2025 @ 12:01 pmstupid Hitler is completely OK outsourcing prison jobs to El Salvador, but god forgive GM build’s a plant across the river.
I’m sure, same thing. Constitution, smonstitution.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 4/14/2025 @ 12:10 pm> The issue, really isn’t about due process.
Of course it is.
The administration claims it can send someone to a foreign gulag in violation of a court order and *nobody* can do anything about it.
Meanwhile, the President is *openly declaring* that he wants to send American citizens to the same foreign gulag, where the same rules would apply — once the citizens are there, there is nothing anyone can do about it.
If this is allowed to stand, the bill of rights is a paper tiger, and what we have are not *rights* but rather *privileges* which can, in practice, be withdrawn by the administration on a whim — or just “by mistake”, a mistake which can never be corrected by anyone.
This is *precisely* the kind of power that the fourth amendment was intended to prevent existing, and it’s *precisely* the kind of power that, when I was a kid, was one of the major differentiators between the communist world and the free world.
Honest question, Whembly: why do you think it’s ok for the government to remove someone *in violation of a court order* to a torture camp from which they then refuse to retrieve him?
aphrael (3456ea) — 4/14/2025 @ 12:14 pmI see. You don’t want to address a case that actually involved a U.S. citizen, not some pretend incident or something that might happen.
My response to your concern is that it hasn’t happened and it’s basically fantasy camp.
Your response to an actual assassination of a U.S. citizen without due process is a shrug.
lloyd (f62b34) — 4/14/2025 @ 12:16 pmAs for jerk behavior, there’s been a lot of that here over a long period of time. Glad to see you deciding to call it out right now today.
lloyd (f62b34) — 4/14/2025 @ 12:18 pm“He’s always looking to purchase missiles. Listen, when you start a war, you gotta know you can win a war. You don’t start a war against somebody that’s 20 times your size and then hope that people give you some missiles.”
–Donald J. Trump, today
Also, Trump said he was “told” that Putin’s Palm Sunday terrorist attack was a “mistake”, but then went on and criticized Zelensky for the “absolutely horrible job” of “allowing” an invasion that Putin started.
We are in the Realm of the Absurd, where Trump’s is trying to impose his delusions as some sort of reality.
Zelenskyy didn’t even play a president on a TV show when Putin invaded in 2014. Again, this American president just keeps blaming the victim and not saying a word of criticism about the thug leader of the Russian terrorist state.
Paul Montagu (84042b) — 4/14/2025 @ 12:24 pmThis bears repeating: Trump chose the Greater Evil and is with the terrorists.
> My response to your concern is that it hasn’t happened and it’s basically fantasy camp.
The President is openly saying he wants to send US citizens to a foreign gulag.
On what basis do you claim that this is “basically fantasy camp”?
Is it your claim that *the President* is lying when he says he wants this to happen?
aphrael (3456ea) — 4/14/2025 @ 12:25 pmaphrael, I’ve heard that Trump lies a lot. I prefer to deal with what actually happened rather than what might happen or wishcasting.
Do you think a court should order the return of Anwar al-Awlaki to the living world?
lloyd (f62b34) — 4/14/2025 @ 12:32 pm@208
Look.
Can we dial down the “torture camp” rhetoric?
It’s a harsh, hard prison, yes.
Due Process.
What didn’t he get?
He had at least 3 hearings in person (and some unknown number of hearings when he was a no-show).
Why do you think that’s insufficient?
Furthermore, the order that he’d not be returned to home stipulates that the gangs at home are a problem…Now? It’s likely mooted.
So, yes, it’s really about the tensions between the Executives and the Courts whereby both sides are zealously advocating for their positions.
whembly (b7cc46) — 4/14/2025 @ 12:35 pmHe didn’t get due process before sent off to a foreign penal colony. There’s no one-off here. He should’ve had his day in court like every other guy who was taken.
Paul Montagu (84042b) — 4/14/2025 @ 12:42 pm“Why do you think that’s insufficient?”
It’s clearly insufficient if he was sent to a place he wasn’t supposed to be sent, in violation of a court order.
What is the remedy for this violation?
Davethulhu (14e9e4) — 4/14/2025 @ 12:42 pmI agree that al-Awlaki deserved his day in court (and his murdered 16-year old son), and now Obama has immunity.
Paul Montagu (84042b) — 4/14/2025 @ 12:43 pmHe’s not supposed to be in El Salvador, and as someone who entered the US illegally he’s not supposed to be here either.
The remedy is to send him somewhere where he’s not supposed to be.
lloyd (f62b34) — 4/14/2025 @ 12:45 pmNone of us are safe, Paul. No citizen is safe.
lloyd (f62b34) — 4/14/2025 @ 12:48 pm@218 Oooops
The remedy is to not send him somewhere where he’s not supposed to be.
lloyd (f62b34) — 4/14/2025 @ 12:50 pmSure, Paul. Obama was in jeopardy until the immunity decision came down. LOL
lloyd (f62b34) — 4/14/2025 @ 12:52 pm>Can we dial down the “torture camp” rhetoric?
No. It’s an accurate description of the prison in question, and the only reason to downplay it is to mislead people into being ok with a situation which is manifestly not OK.
aphrael (3456ea) — 4/14/2025 @ 1:02 pmTrump codified it, thanks to his efforts.
Paul Montagu (84042b) — 4/14/2025 @ 1:03 pmOh, and it’s good advice to not pal around al Qaeda.
> None of us are safe, Paul. No citizen is safe.
Correct. Under the legal theory being advanced by the administration in court this week, no citizen is safe from being “accidentally” dispatched to die in a foreign gulag, with no recourse whatsoever once it has been done.
Why do you support this?
aphrael (3456ea) — 4/14/2025 @ 1:03 pmTrump’s latest tariff climbdowns are still above a 20% average tariff rate. This is right-wing, not conservative.
Paul Montagu (84042b) — 4/14/2025 @ 1:11 pmObama doesn’t need “immunity” for al-Awlaki’s killing, he had authority under the Constitution (and the Authorization to Use Military Force) to take whatever actions are necessary to defend the nation.
As an al-Qaeda terrorist he was covered by the AUMF, and the fact he was in Yemen, it was unlikely that he would return to the United States. How many American military lives would you be willing to risk to capture him for “his day in court”?
al-Awlaki was, among other things:
al-Awlaki’s killing was an exercise of the President’s authority as commander in chief to defend the nation. The death of his son was so entirely his father’s responsibility for endangering his life.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/14/2025 @ 1:29 pm@223
Huh?
You mean Trump also droned a US citizen abroad too? Or, that his efforts that lead up to the SCOTUS immunity ruling?
Same could be said of terrorist organization like MS13.
Oh…wait.
whembly (b7cc46) — 4/14/2025 @ 1:35 pmDisingenuous, whembly, categorically.
Paul Montagu (84042b) — 4/14/2025 @ 1:40 pm@224 What do you mean accidentally? Trump just told salvador president to build more prisons for U.S. Citizens! (DU)
asset (6f1164) — 4/14/2025 @ 1:42 pm@228
How so?
It seems the outrage is over this illegal MS13 gangbanger, who received numerous hearings, being sent back home…
Are the same people, who either defended or ignored when Obama droned US citizens.
Sorry, if you’re not outraged by what Obama did, but are when an illegal alien, determined at some point being MS13 gangbanger nonetheless, was mistakenly sent to El Salvatore…
Sorry, not sorry, your credibility is nil.
This isn’t me advocating for this administration’s position.
For me, personally, in the spirit of comity and respect, this administration should try to get El Salvatore to deport this inmate to another country.
There’s a middle ground to be had.
IF your mad that not enough due process is providing sufficient guardrail, be mad at Congress for failing their duties here.
whembly (b7cc46) — 4/14/2025 @ 1:49 pmFIFY:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/14/2025 @ 1:54 pmNo. It’s an accurate description of the prison in question,
I have heard it’s not a great place to be, as if some prisons are, but “torture” implies active measures to, well, torture people. What evidence of actual torture do you have? Or is this just hyperbole?
Kevin M (fa70ed) — 4/14/2025 @ 2:02 pm…despite a court order forbidding a transfer to El Salvador……
And that’s the rub, because the court equated punishment for crimes in his home country to “persecution.” If anything, this is the weak link in the case. I assume that Trump is arguing that his national security duties are more important than following a judge’s mistaken order.
If El Salvador believes that they have repatriated a criminal, I’m not surprised they don’t want to release him.
Of course, “What is Truth?”
Kevin M (fa70ed) — 4/14/2025 @ 2:07 pmStill disingenuous, whembly, and unserious. Even the DOJ said it was a mistake.
Paul Montagu (84042b) — 4/14/2025 @ 2:07 pmIf I’ve gotten due process for shoplifting a few years back, doesn’t mean I don’t get process for the more current alleged offense. No less than the Supreme agrees with this.
You guys …!
Some dwarf tinpot of some Third World speck that 99.99% of the world could not find on a map can say “Oopsie!”
The President of The United States of America should say “We f***ed up. Make it right!”
Not for Garcia or for 1,000 Garcias. For America!
nk (d7b4c3) — 4/14/2025 @ 2:09 pm@226: I had thought we were done with this, but what Rip said.
Kevin M (fa70ed) — 4/14/2025 @ 2:09 pm@234
Bruh.
I’ve said it was a mistake too.
My aggravation to this one, is that Obama and drone a US Citizen with nary a peep, but it’s a gd constitutional crisis that an illegal alien gets mistakenly sent to El Salvatore.
So, forgive me that my give-a-shl!t meter is a weee bit broken here.
whembly (b7cc46) — 4/14/2025 @ 2:12 pmSource? The alleged persecution of Kilmar Abrego Garcia was at the hands of a local gang, not the government:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/14/2025 @ 2:21 pm@236
Let me posit this.
The extra-judicial kill is authorized by AUMF. It’s really an assassination.
But the collateral here was Alawiki’s son, who’s also a citzen.
That’s an unfortunate collateral expense… yes?
In Obama position, he and his decision makers had to weigh the risk/reward that assassinating al-Awlaki would offer.
War is ugly business, and these are hard choices.
But, at the of the day, al-Awlaki’s son was an innocent US citizen.
So, here’s the kicker: Almost universally, Obama received some grace, even though there were small detractors making noises about this.
This MS13 illegal gangbanger was mistakenly sent to El Salvatore.
The administration admitted to it.
Hell, again, I acknowledge that this was a mistake.
But, I can see where the DOJ is going to aggressively protect the Executive from a Judge’s ruling into the foreign policy realm.
How about this: DON’T ILLEGALLY CROSS THE BORDER INTO THE US AND NONE OF THIS WOULD HAPPEN.
whembly (b7cc46) — 4/14/2025 @ 2:23 pm@238
The gangs are almost nonexistent in El Salvatore now. So, that claim, while appears unverified, is mooted.
whembly (b7cc46) — 4/14/2025 @ 2:25 pmYour argument is with Rip, whembly, not me.
Paul Montagu (84042b) — 4/14/2025 @ 2:28 pmThe administration has notified all those who entered the country with waivers through the CBP One app that their entry permission has been cancelled and that they must now leave.
From the CBP Fact Sheet
This allowed people from the comfort of their own homes get permission to enter, so long as they checked the box saying they were fearful for their safety. Which they did. To call this “legal” status conflates it with that of actual legal immigrants. At best they are potential asylum seekers, who have no legal right to remain if that status is not approved.
Lying rags like the NY Times, are, of course conflating this (“They Followed the Rules. Now Thousands of Migrants Are Told, ‘Leave.’”) and the usual suspects are organizing to clog the courts with hearings, appeals of hearings, appeals of appeals of hearings, etc).
These were paroles. pending a hearing, with signed agreements that said that paroles could be revoked without cause. Many have asylum requests pending, but that does not mean they can remain in the country until they are heard. “Remain in Mexico” was a thing before, and it may be a thing again. The ease of the CPB One app system may have induced people with no valid asylum need to claim it as a way to go north, so to say that all these folks are refugees is just more conflation.
Not all parolees have filed formal asylum requests. The question is whether those that have must also depart and wait for their hearing date in Mexico, as people did before Biden created this parole program.
Kevin M (fa70ed) — 4/14/2025 @ 2:33 pmThe extra-judicial kill is authorized by AUMF. It’s really an assassination.
But the collateral here was Alawiki’s son, who’s also a citzen.
That’s an unfortunate collateral expense… yes?
Yes. In a War (and it was a War), don’t stand with the enemies. Particularly don’t join the enemy leadership, as they are all valid assassination targets. And yes, collateral damage. I feel sorry for the kid having such an ass-wipe father, but them’s the breaks. Past that, IDGAF.
Kevin M (fa70ed) — 4/14/2025 @ 2:40 pmAs for the kid being innocent, for all you know he was helping his daddy rape captive Yazidi girls.
What about innocent US-born citizens whose German parents returned them to the Homeland to help the Fuhrer and got drafted into the Wehrmacht? Should US soldiers have checked that possibility before shooting?
This is just navel-gazing crap.
Kevin M (fa70ed) — 4/14/2025 @ 2:46 pmHe did. And the 2019 Article 2 court found him to be a member of MS13. In the years since that decision, he did nothing to convince that court otherwise. Now he faced Article 3 justice as a Foreign Terrorist, and that is why SCOTUS did not order him returned.
BuDuh (b9a166) — 4/14/2025 @ 2:48 pmAphreal, I think Lloyds position is that Trump wasn’t being literal and was just expressing anger at his opponents. Therefore he shouldn’t be taken any more seriously then if he said he wanted to put them on a rocket and send them to the outer space.
Not saying I agree with him, just that his assumption that Trumps statements are empty isn’t entirely without support.
Time (8abbc4) — 4/14/2025 @ 2:50 pmThe Supreme Court affirmed 9-0 that he’s entitled to “reasonable time” for due process, which was denied him.
Paul Montagu (84042b) — 4/14/2025 @ 2:53 pmI’ll reread the opinion.
BuDuh (b9a166) — 4/14/2025 @ 2:55 pm“The order properly requires the Government to ‘facilitate’ Abrego Garcia’s release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent to El Salvador.”
Paul Montagu (84042b) — 4/14/2025 @ 3:00 pm–Supreme Court decision
Looks like somone is making money off Trump’s Tariffs.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/marjorie-taylor-greene-stocks-trump-tariffs/
Time (c471a2) — 4/14/2025 @ 3:02 pm> But, I can see where the DOJ is going to aggressively protect the Executive from a Judge’s ruling into the foreign policy realm.
Whembly, another question for you.
Assume for the sake of argument that another mistake results in the administration accidentally sending a US Citizen to CECOT.
The administration’s position is that, at that point, no court has jurisdiction to order the return of the citizen.
Are you ok with that?
aphrael (3456ea) — 4/14/2025 @ 3:10 pmCoincidence, no doubt:
Jim Miller (842856) — 4/14/2025 @ 3:23 pmThe Georgia congresswoman purchased at least tens of thousands of dollars in stock the day before and the day of President Trump’s pause of a sweeping set of tariffs that sent the market soaring.
She bought stocks after panic selling dropped them some 40%. It’s a pretty astute move. If she had insider knowledge of the next day’s announcements, that would be bad. If, instead, she knew what a terrible flip-flopper Trump is and/or had some idea of the pressure he was under to relent (which was pretty obvious), it was simply a good bet.
Not all stocks recovered, btw. Nvidia is still 30% off its peak. You know what’s a big winner in all this? Walmart, up 15% in the last few days, and 5% since all this started.
Kevin M (089f1c) — 4/14/2025 @ 3:50 pmIf a court really wanted to get this guy back, they could enjoin ALL deportations until he’s returned. The El Salvador guy is not going to keep him if Trump wants him back.
Kevin M (089f1c) — 4/14/2025 @ 3:51 pmA question for the fancy-pants lawyers (I assume there are still a few here).
The administration and its Salvadoran friend clearly intend to make a mockery of due process, and the Supremes have pre-emptively washed their hands by calling it a foreign-policy issue.
Do Mr. Abrego Garcia and his American wife and son perhaps have a better chance in civil court?
Doesn’t his wrongful deportation and pending imprisonment in a gulag for life (despite having fewer convictions than the current President of the United States), denial of human and civil rights, his family’s loss of financial support, his wife’s loss of consortium, and the emotional cruelty inflicted, expose the government to huge liability? And punitive damages?
Couldn’t they sue for a nine- or ten-figure sum and perhaps entice the government to settle for seven- or eight figures, plus return to the US with citizenship?
Dave (ff0354) — 4/14/2025 @ 3:55 pmplus return to the US with citizenship?
Courts cannot grant citizenship. Only the Executive branch, following Congress’ script, or Congress itself can grant citizenship.
Kevin M (3d42a3) — 4/14/2025 @ 4:41 pmAssumes facts not in evidence. Source?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/14/2025 @ 4:43 pmThe government hasn’t presented any evidence that Abrego Garcia is a member of MS-13, and the immigration judge (who is an employee of the Justice Department, and not a member of the federal judiciary) in 2019 issued an order (still in effect) that he not to be deported to El Salvador to avoid persecution by local gangs, not the government. Hardly the ruling one would expect by someone who thought Garcia was part of MS-13.
There is no evidence that Abrego Garcia has lived in New York ever.
People seem to forget the fact that the government has admitted that an “administrative error” resulted in Abrego Garcia being sent to El Salvador:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/14/2025 @ 5:16 pmI doubt there is enough evidence to charge anyone with insider trading.
Insider trading involves buying or selling a publicly traded company’s stock based on nonpublic, material information about that company.
Material, nonpublic information is any undisclosed information that could substantially impact an investor’s decision to buy or sell a security. It hinges on who is considered an insider, and what constitutes “material, non-public” information.
In order to prosecute anyone for insider trading, the government would need to prove that those like MTG received non-public information and then acted upon it. President Trump announced publicly on April 9th through Truth Social that “This is a great time to buy” and later announced the 90-day pause in reciprocal tariffs. Anybody who was paying attention could have guessed that the stock market would have taken off at that point. In order to prove insider trading by Trump would require evidence he told persons in private of what he was going to do, which would be extremely difficult.
A big nothingburger.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/14/2025 @ 5:40 pmOnce all the foreign students that are supporters of Hamas have been deported, what should be done with the American citizen students who support Hamas?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/14/2025 @ 5:49 pmRight, the executive branch would be the one to settle any civil suit, and that could (I guess) be part of it.
If the administration won’t settle, the damages would need to be sufficient to bribe Trump and/or Bukele.
Dave (ff0354) — 4/14/2025 @ 6:09 pmA general comment about citizenship.
To me, it’s a Gold Standard. Americans have the Golden Ticket of citizenship, and other nations should respect it, in part by not kidnapping us on foreign soil in places like Russia, Iran or by Hamas. It should have meaning, both here and abroad.
If our countrymen are kidnapped, there should be hell to pay if they’re not returned or soon returned, and that’s why I hold Putin and Khamenei and Hamas in full contempt, and why I’m frustrated that we didn’t do enough and quick enough on their behalf.
Similarly, even though al-Awlaki was an al Qaeda terrorist, he and his son were born in America and were irrevocably American citizens. In deciding to give them a death sentence, Obama didn’t even render an indictment, just targeted them for death with nary a hint of due process. To me, that should never happen to a Golden Ticket holder, no matter how bad the guy is.
Over a decade ago at the Forvm blog, I was surprised by the number of left-wingers who agreed with Obama’s verdict on the guy, despite all their caterwauling and pearl-clutching about detainees and combatants rights in the Iraq War, which spoke plenty to their partisanship and their falling in line with that lightweight president. But, to me, the Gold Standard should’ve gotten their day in court, no matter how repugnant these humans were.
The only or best way to have taken out al-Awlaki, IMO, was if al Qaeda high-value targets were in the same room or in close proximity, then it’s just collateral damage because foreign terrorists were there. Wrong time, wrong place for al-Awlaki. But, to me, directly targeting an American citizen crosses an important line.
And let’s not even get into the killing or murdering of a 16-year old US citizen, which happened two weeks after his dad was killed. He was a kid, an American kid who should’ve been give a chance to live because he was an American. Conor Friedersdorf wrote about Abdulrahman al-Awlaki and the manner in which he was murdered, and it’s sickening. Friedersdorf’s work holds up twelve years later.
This finally leads to Trump’s malevolent plan to send American citizens–the “Home growns”–to an El Salvadoran penal penalty for whatever unspecified crimes. On its face, it’s a gross violation of the Eighth Amendment. But worse, Trump is devaluing our Gold Standard of citizenship by treating different citizens differently. It’s wrong on multiple levels.
Paul Montagu (84042b) — 4/14/2025 @ 8:01 pmHarvard don’t fear the grifter….
nk (6c45b4) — 4/15/2025 @ 2:49 amAs I asked above, how many American soldiers would you have been willing to sacrifice so that al-Awlaki could have his “day in court”?
Rip Murdock (3652c9) — 4/15/2025 @ 7:24 amThen he should’ve been indicted, Rip.
Paul Montagu (84042b) — 4/15/2025 @ 7:34 am@263 nk, that’s very brave of Harvard, with its $50 billion endowment built in part on taxpayer funds and tax exemptions. They are fighting for survival. #RESIST
lloyd (505a51) — 4/15/2025 @ 7:36 amYeah. So? What should they be fighting for? A fried egg on their grits and a second slice of chocolate cake?
nk (314b65) — 4/15/2025 @ 7:54 amWell, yes, that’s because Trump is with the terrorists…
Paul Montagu (84042b) — 4/15/2025 @ 8:23 amResearch, invention, and innovation are America’s biggest strengths.
A Russian puppet would do his
nk (314b65) — 4/15/2025 @ 8:40 ambestworst to end that, with or without some anti-Semitism horsesh!t rationalization.Trump’s cosmically stupid tariffs have come to roost in Seattle. And South Carolina.
Boeing is our country’s largest exporter. Or was, because China is (or was) one of Boeing’s biggest customers.
Paul Montagu (84042b) — 4/15/2025 @ 8:47 amAnti-semitism is just the cost of innovation, nk.
lloyd (dc6969) — 4/15/2025 @ 8:58 am#5 and #6 I argued in the first comment that we are reluctant to think about the threats from disease, using Gina Kolata’s argument in Flu. Colonel Klink (ret) described how terribly the 1918 flu epidemic affected his family. Multiply that by tens of millions to get an idea of the impact world wide.
We should think about those threats, because they won’t disappear, “like magic”. So let me continue by mentioning three more books that I have learned from:
1. Justinian’s Flea by William Rosen. The “Black Death” weakened the Byzantine empire so much that it was unable to resist the rise of Islam.
2. Rats, Lice, and History by Hans Zinsser. A “biography” of typhus. A super quirky biography, which I like, but may not be to everyone’s taste. First published in 1934, it is, naturally, somewhat dated.
3. Plagues and Peoples by the eminent historian, William H. McNeill. Gives a general argument for the importance of disease in history.
(If you know of other books on the subject worth reading, please share them with us.)
Jim Miller (875fcd) — 4/15/2025 @ 9:16 amHow would have an indictment make a difference? Indicted or not, it would have been unlikely for al-Awlaki to return to the United States on his own.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/15/2025 @ 10:42 amHe didn’t have to be in the country to be indicted, Rip.
Paul Montagu (84042b) — 4/15/2025 @ 11:25 amI accept that we’re not going to agree on this, like with self-pardons.
Amateur Hour:
To paraphrase James Mason in North by Northwest, this problem is best disposed of from a great height.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/15/2025 @ 11:29 amI understand that, but what I don’t understand is why indicting al-Awlaki would have made any difference. He still would have been outside the reach of the US to be arrested and face justice; free to continue plotting against the United States.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/15/2025 @ 11:32 amIf you join with the enemy you are subject to all the dangers of war. Being an American citizen simply makes you a traitor, too.
Kevin M (078eda) — 4/16/2025 @ 10:59 amNetanyahu has been calling for an agreement like a 2003 accord struck with Libya, whose nuclear program was taken apart. Under that so-called Libya model, Iran’s nuclear program would be eliminated, and its enrichment sites would be destroyed under American supervision.
Then, later, we would destabilize and overthrow them?
Kevin M (078eda) — 4/16/2025 @ 11:00 amUnder that so-called Libya model, Iran’s nuclear program would be eliminated, and its enrichment sites would be destroyed under American supervision.
Kevin M (078eda) — 4/16/2025 @ 11:00 am
Eight years later. When we saw a chance, owing to the “Arab Spring” (which was touched of, by accident, by Wikileaks. It released U.S. diplomatic cables from 2010 about Tunisia. The Arab Spring was named after the Prague Spring of 1968.
But Libya is not a good precedent. Because I don’t think that was really Quaddafi’s nuclear weapons program. It was Iran’s but located in Libya. Quaddafi didn’t really want it for himself.
So after the United States invaded Iraq because Saddam Hussein would not dispel suspicions about Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction, he got rid of it, and made sure we knew. (He did not consider what he had a defense – quite the contrary.)
Iran also halted weaponization – that is, got rid of a lot of targets in Iran. Then, together with North Korea, it started another nuclear weapons program in yet another country: Syria. But Israel destroyed it like they had destroyed the reactor in Iraq in 1981. After that, Syria attempted to get rid of the evidence.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 4/16/2025 @ 12:01 pmJim Miller (875fcd) — 4/15/2025 @ 9:16 am
There are some books that deal with just the 1918 flu epidemic and subsequent events.
I have >i> Plagues and Peoples
Very good book. First edition was written before AIDS.
I don’t think I ever heard of Justinian’s Flea
That is also called the Black Death?
Actually, at the time it was called the Roman Republic. Republica Romana.
Even though it hadn’t been a republic for almost 600 years (but it still had an almost powerless Senate) and the capital was no longer located in Rome and didn’t even, at first, rule over it (although Justinian’s general Belisarius reconquered it) and the common language was Greek not Latin.
That was something like 100 years after Justinian.
In the meantime, Persia conquered much of he Roman Middle East territories, then Byzantium reconquered it.
And while he Moslems got much of Anatolia, hey did not conquer Constantinople until 1453. (In the meantime Venice had rules over it for some 50 years or so starting in 1204 while the emperors were exiled to the north of the Black Sea in, I guess what is now Ukraine.
2. Rats, Lice, and History by Hans Zinsser. A “biography” of typhus. A super quirky biography, which I like, but may not be to everyone’s taste. First published in 1934, it is, naturally, somewhat dated.
3.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 4/16/2025 @ 12:21 pmhttps://www.racket.news/p/timeline-the-case-of-kilmar-armando
Later:
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 4/16/2025 @ 2:17 pmExplains how New York State Attorney General Letitia James did the same sort of thing – or worse! – that she successfully sued Donald Trump for.
https://whitecollarfraud.com/2025/04/16/breaking-federal-housing-agency-refers-ny-ag-letitia-james-to-doj-for-mortgage-fraud-investigation/
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 4/16/2025 @ 2:31 pmLeftists are expert in following campaign rules.
Andrew Cuomo, who never ran in a New York city race, fumbled when trying to qualify for 8x matching funds. Software was not set up right.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 4/16/2025 @ 2:33 pmNew York City Council race Democratic incumbent has no opponent after Republican gets petitions and pulls out of the race and Conservative gets petitions and withdraws names incumbent as his choice and Conservative Party names her as their candidate
She’s conservative aligned but stupid. And got into a fight with a policeman at a anti-homeless shelter demonstration. This was resolved by reconciliation.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 4/16/2025 @ 2:36 pmAbout those tariffs:
California sues to block tariffs
Kevin M (99864f) — 4/16/2025 @ 4:41 pmDo you think the 9th Circuit will agree that California has standing?
Kevin M (99864f) — 4/16/2025 @ 4:42 pmAs the article says, California stands to lose billions of dollars in revenue from the reduction of trade through their ports, and will pay higher costs when purchasing imported items, so I expect they do. But it will take years to resolve all of the lawsuits challenging the IEEPA tariffs, so I wouldn’t my breath.
The more interesting (non-) development is that the US Chamber of Commerce has decided not to challenge Trump’s tariffs in court.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/16/2025 @ 6:06 pmCome for the cruelty, stay for the malevolence.
This again is on Trump, for making sweeping cuts instead of determining which programs and personnel are worthwhile and worth keeping. Preventing children from starving seem worthwhile to me.
Paul Montagu (84042b) — 4/17/2025 @ 6:14 pm