Weekend Open Thread
[guest post by Dana]
Let’s go!
First news item
It looks like Trump’s shenanigans aren’t going to fly:
U.S. District Judge James Boasberg said the administration appeared to have acted “in bad faith” when it hurriedly assembled three deportation flights on March 15 at the same time that Boasberg was arranging emergency court proceedings to assess the legality of the effort.
Boasberg said during a hearing Thursday that he’s still weighing what penalties he could impose if he does hold officials in contempt. But courts have broad power to issue fines or impose jail time on people who defy court orders. Boasberg could even try to order the administration to demand that El Salvador return the deportees to the United States.
Second news item
I guess the Pentagon didn’t get the message from the White House that the “case is closed”:
The acting inspector general for the Pentagon announced an investigation into Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth’s use of the signal app to discuss potentially classified information with other members of the Trump cabinet last month.
. . .
In a memo released on Thursday obtained by Fox News reporter Jennifer Griffin and others, announced a probe into Hegseth over a discussion about attacking Houthi targets in Yemen on the commercial app.
Here is Stebbin’s memo:
The purpose of this memorandum is to notify you that we are initiating the subject evaluation. We are conducting this evaluation in response to a March 26, 2025 letter I received from the Chairman and Ranking Member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, requesting that I conduct an inquiry into recent public reporting on the Secretary of Defense’s use of an unclassified commercially available messaging application to discuss information pertaining to military actions in Yemen in March 2025.
The objective of this evaluation is to determine the extent to which the Secretary of Defense and other DoD personnel complied with DoD policies and procedures for the use of a commercial messaging application for official business. Additionally, we will review compliance with classification and records retention requirements. We may revise the objective as the evaluation proceeds. We plan to perform this evaluation in accordance with the Council of the Inspectors General on Integrity and Efficiency “Quality Standards for Inspection and Evaluation.”
Third news item
Vice-President Vance on the tariffs:
“Look, one bad day in the stock market compared to what President Trump said earlier today — and I think he’s right about this — we’re going to have a booming stock market for a long time because we’re reinvesting in the United States of America,” Vance said.
He continued: “The people on Wall Street have done well. We want them to do well. But we care the most about American workers and about American small businesses. And they’re the ones who are really going to benefit from these policies.”
Vance reiterated Trump’s comparison of the US economy to a “patient who was very sick” and has had an operation and “now it’s time to make the patient better.”
One bad day???? Hahahahaha!
And about Russia being left off the tariff list:
A White House official told The Hill in a statement that the four nations “are not subject to the Reciprocal Tariff Executive Order because they are already facing extremely high tariffs, and our previously imposed sanctions preclude any meaningful trade with these countries.”
The official added that Trump has “recently threatened to impose strong sanctions on Russia” to further explain leaving out Moscow.
Fourth news item
Are Republican members of Congress going to do something to stop these tariffs:
The fallout from President Donald Trump’s aggressive new tariffs has spurred Congress into action, with a growing number of Republicans joining Democrats to express interest in using their power to restrain him.
After the GOP-led Senate delivered a rare rebuke to Trump on Wednesday by voting to undo his tariffs on Canada, lawmakers in both chambers are weighing additional steps to rein him in. Senators are eyeing other mechanisms to rescind Trump’s existing tariffs while limiting his ability to impose new ones. And Democrats in the House are exploring ways to force a vote to revoke Canadian tariffs, putting out feelers to attract support from Republicans.
. . .
Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, a Trump ally who is third in line to the presidency, introduced a bill with Sen. Maria Cantwell, D-Wash., on Thursday that would reassert Congress’ authority and slap restrictions on the president’s power to levy tariffs.
The legislation, called the Trade Review Act of 2025, would require the president to notify Congress of new tariffs within 48 hours of imposition, while providing his reasons and an analysis of the impacts on American consumers and businesses. Then Congress would have 60 days to approve it. If it does not, the tariffs would expire after that period.
This guy talks a good game but doesn’t seem to realize that he is a sitting member of Congress and can do something about the problem. Maybe try signing Grassley-Cantwell’s bill:
TED CRUZ: “I am not a fan of tariffs. Tariffs are a tax on consumers.” pic.twitter.com/U5MF5jJFGr
— The Tennessee Holler (@TheTNHoller) April 3, 2025
Fifth news item
Lithuanians honored the four American soldiers that died during military exercises:
Lithuania held a farewell ceremony for the four American soldiers who died during a military exercise in March. Mourners gathered in Vilnius on April 3 for the procession before the bodies were taken to the airport and returned to the United States. @CurrentTimeTv pic.twitter.com/vLKVPOXKlZ
— Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty (@RFERL) April 3, 2025
The Lithuanians turned out in large numbers to show their respect:
Lithuania’s political and religious leaders joined thousands of people on Thursday to bid farewell to four American soldiers who died during a training exercise in the Baltic nation.
President Gitanas Nausėda and other dignitaries were among those who stood in respect as hearses carried the bodies of the four young Americans to Vilnius airport before being flown to the United States for burial.
Beautiful.
And then there is this guy:
Trump won’t be present today for the dignified transfer of four U.S. soldiers at Dover Air Force Base, Delaware.
Instead, he’ll be attending a LIV Golf dinner reception in Florida.
The White House and the Defense Department did not immediately respond to requests for comment on which administration officials might be in attendance.
Remember, this is the same guy that told us years ago that he doesn’t like “losers,” and “suckers” (like four dead soldiers).
Sixth news item
China said on Friday it will impose reciprocal 34% tariffs on all imports from the United States from April 10, making good on a promise to strike back after US President Donald Trump escalated a global trade war.
On Wednesday, Trump unveiled an additional 34% tariffs on all Chinese goods imported into the US, in a move poised to cause a major reset of relations and worsen trade tension between the world’s two largest economies.
“This practice of the US is not in line with international trade rules, seriously undermines China’s legitimate rights and interests, and is a typical unilateral bullying practice,” China’s State Council Tariff Commission said in a statement announcing its retaliatory tariffs.
Remember what the White House spokesperson said: Karoline Leavitt. . .confirms that the 34 percent tariff on China is ON TOP of the previous 20 percent. So that means the rate on China will be *54* percent when these tariffs take effect.
Seventh news item
Can we please stop with the bullshit:
The US will know “in a matter of weeks, not months, whether Russia is serious about peace” in Ukraine, Secretary of State Marco Rubio said Friday.
“We will know from their answers very soon whether they are serious about proceeding with real peace or whether it’s a delay tactic”
This isn’t rocket science: If Russia was truly interested in peace (and not conquering a neighboring sovereign nation), they would leave Ukraine, including the occupied territories, and work to return all abducted Ukrainian children back to their homeland. And then they would never invade Ukraine again. If they were really interested in peace, that is. . .
Have a great weekend.
—Dana
Hello.
Dana (d04df2) — 4/4/2025 @ 5:37 amTrump doesn’t like US servicemen who die in bogs. Suckers and losers all.
Paul Montagu (b69d31) — 4/4/2025 @ 7:32 amThe Dow is down over 1,300 despite the decent jobs report, because China is matching Trump’s stupid tariffs.
Paul Montagu (b69d31) — 4/4/2025 @ 7:34 amTwo different readouts between Rubio and the Danish Foreign Minister. We are the Baddies by favoring Russia, by threatening the sovereign territory of fellow allies, and by poisoning world economy via Trump’s stupid tariffs.
If it wasn’t clear that Trump wasn’t the worst president in our history after his first term, we’re getting all kinds of clarity now.
Paul Montagu (b69d31) — 4/4/2025 @ 8:09 amThe short answer is no. Any vote in the Senate would be a 50/50 proposition; and it is possible that Republican Senators who support the tariffs could filibuster the legislation. It is nearly impossible to see the Republican House leadership allowing a vote on the Senate legislation. And even if they passed the House, President Trump would certainly veto the legislation; and neither chamber has the required 2/3 majority to override.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/4/2025 @ 8:44 am#5
Congress can act and terminate the emergency declaration empowering Trump by a majority vote. Trump can’t veto that resolution. I realize the hopeless of everything is part of the Rip Murdock brand, but this is one thing that needs to be reiterated and repeated. Congress can act by a majority vote. The House can change the rules and thwart Johnson — they have just done so on the proxy vote issue. When people like Ted Cruz get on the TV an say they don’t really like tariffs, but what are ya gonna do — reporters and voters should not let them get by with it.
Hopelessness means that we the voter sit back and take it. When we really can call our representatives (particularly in GOP districts) and protest.
And, maybe a judge in Pensacola FL can rule that the imposition of tariffs likely violate the rules and put out a national TRO.
Appalled (f0dcf0) — 4/4/2025 @ 9:34 amIncidentally, the first lawsuit on tariffs is here:
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flnd.530604/gov.uscourts.flnd.530604.1.0.pdf
What has been interesting is that while a lot of commentary on the first lot of tariffs decreed by Trump noted tht the emergency used to justify them was pretty weak, nobody chose to make the point that they might well be illegal. That’s a failing from the media and the politicians.
Appalled (f0dcf0) — 4/4/2025 @ 9:56 amOf course Congress can act, but is their evidence that the Republican House majority wants to act? As I pointed out yesterday, they have acted-to block any resolutions to be considered-what is the evidence they have changed their minds since then?
It took a discharge petition to place the proxy voting measure on the floor; and even then Johnson tried to kill it. It wasn’t a bedrock issue for the Trump Administration like tariffs are; how many Republicans do you think will sacrifice their careers to vote for bills or resolutions repealing the tariffs? And since the Speaker controls the agenda, why do you expect him to allow such a vote at all?
It’s not “learned helplessness,” it’s a realization of what the politics are and the reality of how legislative process works.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/4/2025 @ 10:38 amFlash forward to Trump, next Friday:
“And I am announcing a reciprocal tariff on China of 10,000% to match their 5,000% tariff they unfairly imposed yesterday.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/4/2025 @ 10:39 amI dare say a majority of House and Senate Republicans support the tariffs at this today; we’ll see if they still do in six months.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/4/2025 @ 10:45 amCongress can act and terminate the emergency declaration empowering Trump by a majority vote. Trump can’t veto that resolution.
That method was killed by the terrible, no good (and hopefully reversible) gift to Executive power in INS v Chadha. It is considered a legislative veto, and all such are unconstitutional. The fact that the decision left all the delegations of unitary power intact, while removing all the checks, seems to have escaped the notice of the Chadha majority. It didn’t escape Rehnquist, but that was only one vote.
From the link:
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/4/2025 @ 10:51 amIt would be easier to impeach Trump than to override a veto.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/4/2025 @ 10:53 amMarket down another 5% in VERY broad sell-off.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/4/2025 @ 10:55 amOf course, this leaves the courts as the only remaining arbiters of what is a “national emergency.” You could argue that in Chadha, removing the legislature’s ability to control these now-delegated legislative powers, the Court took that duty upon itself.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/4/2025 @ 10:59 amI can see support building for an amendment to restore legislative vetoes. I also think that the Court might overturn that decision as the entire parade of horribles that the Burger court discounted in 1983 has come to pass.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/4/2025 @ 11:09 amWhere?
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/4/2025 @ 11:16 amI don’t “see” one of the most pro-executive power Supreme Courts overturning a decision that protects the Executive Branch authority.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/4/2025 @ 11:22 amI don’t “see” one of the most pro-executive power Supreme Courts overturning a decision that protects the Executive Branch authority
I believe that you misread the court and seem to be basing it all on the immunity case. They ARE very strong on protecting the defined Executive power, but I wonder why you think that extends to usurpations of enumerated legislative powers.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/4/2025 @ 11:27 amImpeach , yes; convicting and removing him from office; just as hard as overriding a veto. Impeaching Donald Trump is like water off a duck’s back. Been there, done that.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/4/2025 @ 11:31 amI can see support building for an amendment to restore legislative vetoes
The Congress has always fought for retaining Legislative power. Chadha was a body-blow to Congress, and they have several times attempted to restore some of that ability. Their flaw, of course, is partisan support of the current occupant of the WH causing division in that goal.
But Congressmen will shortly find that their support for tariffs will prevent their re-election and that is far more important to them than supporting Trump’s excesses. Half of the GOP members only claim to support Trump because they fear his anger will defeat them. If they no longer see things that way, all bets are off.
And passing a Constitutional amendment is no harder than overriding a veto.
Tell me Rip, do you see Trump’s current path as sustainable? What evidence can you muster?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/4/2025 @ 11:34 amImpeach , yes; convicting and removing him from office; just as hard as overriding a veto.
In the Senate, but not the House. So, “easier.”
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/4/2025 @ 11:35 amI admit that convicting Trump cannot happen until 2027, when the Senate is in Democrat hands and the GOP is running scared. Although Trump may manage to hurry things with a war for Greenland and/or Canada.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/4/2025 @ 11:38 amIt’s not all based on the immunity case; see the Court’s approval of Trump travel ban from his first term.
The legislative veto is a usurpation of executive power in that Congress assumes an unconstitutional “shortcut” power to repeal executive actions without going through the legislative process. Any “usurpations” by the Executive Branch should be considered through the normal congressional process.
Congress has delegated a number of tariff powers to the executive, and it remains to be seen if using the International Emergency Economic Powers Act is constitutional or not.
We’ll find out sometime next year.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/4/2025 @ 11:47 amI think Trump’s current path is sustainable through the end of the current Congress, unless some Republicans flip and become Democrats (LOL!) Not really going to happen in the House, but Murkowski or Collins might in the Senate (though doubtful). No one has announced their intention to do so.
Being President gives him a large toolbox to coerce others, for example, his ability to get BigLaw and BigEd to bow to his demands. The current Congress has not done anything to restrict his authority, in fact, they have hamstrung themselves so that they cannot take such action. And as yesterday’s vote on repealing the Canadian emergency declaration showed, 49 voted against repealing the declaration while only 4 voted for it.
Trump has rock solid support among the House leadership, as they are willingly participating in his “revenge tour” by investigating his opponents.
And no Republicans of any consequence are talking about impeachment.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/4/2025 @ 12:14 pmThis goes without saying. It is glaringly obvious. The presumption should be they were trying to avoid a negative ruling. Whether they are allowed to is another question.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 4/4/2025 @ 12:18 pmYou can have a one House legislative veto if executive actions automatically have a time limit unless enacted into law.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 4/4/2025 @ 12:20 pmSince the Legislative Veto only applies to Article I, Section 8 powers delegated to the executive, such as petty lawmaking (“regulations”) and tariffs, it is no usurpation of Executive Power at all. It is merely the lack of the implied legislative concurrence required in the laws granting the Executive any authority over these things at all.
Were there no delegation of the tariff power, for example, the President would have to ask Congress to pass a tariff law. Either House could say no, by voting it down (or, indeed, by failing to vote on it at all). So, in allowing the Executive to wield this enumerated legislated power while reserving a veto, they TAKE nothing, they just give less.
Justice White and Rehnquist tried to make this point, but the Burger court declined to hear it. Nobody denies tha the effect of Chadha was to move a great deal of Legislative power into the hands of the Executive. It left Congress with the impossible task of overriding a presidential veto to regain even a modicum of power that the Constitution explicitly granted Congress. Doing so with a “Separation of Powers” argument is not only a travesty, it demonstrates ignorance on the part of everyone who repeats it.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/4/2025 @ 12:25 pmBeing President gives him a large toolbox to coerce others, for example, his ability to get BigLaw and BigEd to bow to his demands.
Where do you find that power in the Constitution or statutes? At best, it is wrapped up in the Impoundment idea, which while attractive in some respects, is being shown by Trump to be abusable in most respects.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/4/2025 @ 12:28 pmThis means that Donald Trump is not currently contemplating removing the tariffs but wants to use the possibility of removing tariffs to squeeze Moscow on Ukraine..
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 4/4/2025 @ 12:30 pmThe current Congress has not done anything to restrict his authority, in fact, they have hamstrung themselves so that they cannot take such action
They did no such thing. Each and every law that allowed the Executive any authority over Article I powers had a legislative veto of some sort attached. Congress did not hamstring themselves, the Supreme Court weirded the knife all by themselves.
The irony was that the Chadha case was about a matter that NEITHER the Executive nor Congress had any power anyway — it was a judicial question regarding guilt. Powell’s concurrence, agreed in the judgement in Chadha’s case, but pointed out that almost none of the legislative veto question had anything to do with the issues that Chadha raised.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/4/2025 @ 12:34 pmThey’ll do it every time Department:
The way the Administration is slowly, slowly conceding the effects of tariffs on the economy could be bad reminds me of the way Democrats were slow to admit that an increase in crime was more than a temporary rise, or the way they kept on saying inflation was transitional (which it was but it would take 2 or 3 years to et rid of the effect of the shortage of shipping containers because they were left in the wrong place in the world after Covid)
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 4/4/2025 @ 12:35 pmAll water under the bridge.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/4/2025 @ 12:36 pmTo sum up:
1. Trump abuses the legislative powers that have been delegated to him.
2. Trump abuses legislative powers that have NOT been delegated to him.
3. Trump ignores federal courts concerning his abuse of powers that have been delegated to “independent” agencies.
4. Congress, rendered toothless by a reckless Supreme Court decision, dithers and fears that the abuse that Trump visits on others might be visited on them, too.
5. The strongest economy in the world is being brought to its knees by the acts of a single person who is running amok with no viable method of control.
Saying it is all someone else’s fault isn’t helpful. It is all Trump, every bit of it.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/4/2025 @ 12:42 pmWhat they need to do is have the presidential authority to raise tariffs expire after a period of time if it doesn’t get legislative concurrence.
This is what Grassley’s bill about Canadian tariffs would do.
Unfortunately the only way to do it now is to fold it into a must pass and sign bill.
Anyway on 6 months to a year, Trump will see that his tariff theory is wrong and mostly reverse himself.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 4/4/2025 @ 12:43 pmHe’ll attribute the bad economic effects of immigration enforcement to tariffs too.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 4/4/2025 @ 12:43 pmAll water under the bridge.
So, you admit that your argument is based on past recklessness? And as usual, you wash your hands of it?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/4/2025 @ 12:44 pmAnyway on 6 months to a year, Trump will see that his tariff theory is wrong and mostly reverse himself.
After the DOW is at 1100 and many companies have failed after his last 3 sea changes in economic policy? No thank you.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/4/2025 @ 12:46 pmIt’s not, but rather than challenging Trump, BigLaw (with atwo or three exceptions) and BigEd decided to surrender than challenge his authority, even though both the law firms and universities had legal arguments they could have made.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/4/2025 @ 12:52 pmNo, it’s the fact that Chada was decided 42 years ago and there doesn’t appear to be any effort to overturn it.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/4/2025 @ 12:55 pmHe’ll attribute the bad economic effects of immigration enforcement to tariffs too.
They won’t be noticeable in comparison. As it stands, people are thinking that major companies will fail. A number of companies stock is down 20% in the last two days, with no bottom in sight. I shudder to think what limits Boeing’s lenders have placed on their stock price.
Boeing: 170 at tariff announcement Wednesday, 137 now.
BofA: 42 then, 34 now
Apple: 224 to 190
Netflix: 948 to 856
Dow 30: 42,214 to 38,300
NASDAQ: 17,600 to 15,600
Having to pay more for low-end labor? Immaterial.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/4/2025 @ 12:58 pmNo, it’s the fact that Chada was decided 42 years ago and there doesn’t appear to be any effort to overturn it.
Several times Congress has tried, but the decision was a trap door. It made any legislative attempt to regain constitutional power subject to a 2/3rds vote of each house. Power that they had from the Founding until 1983.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/4/2025 @ 1:01 pmYesterday, down 1,679.
Today, down 2,231.
Congress needs to take back its tariff powers, and they need to do it now. This manbaby president needs to have his tariff toy taken away.
Paul Montagu (b69d31) — 4/4/2025 @ 1:17 pmDo you think that there is a 2/3 majority in either chamber to override a veto?
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/4/2025 @ 1:19 pmWhere is the “legislative veto” expressly described in Article I of the Constitution?
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/4/2025 @ 1:24 pmIs a two-thirds vote necessary? These are powers Congress already has.
Paul Montagu (b69d31) — 4/4/2025 @ 1:29 pmYou obviously didn’t click the link regarding the House passing a rule last month to prevent members from introducing resolutions and requiring House leadership approval to overturn Trump’s national emergency declarations. I would call that “hamstringing” themselves.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/4/2025 @ 1:35 pmCongress would need to repeal the legislation that delegates the authority to the President, or to regulate his authority. In either case legislation would require Trump’s signature to go into effect. I’m assuming Trump would veto any such bills.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/4/2025 @ 1:40 pmThe Constitution gives Congress the authority to impose tariffs, but it requires legislation signed by the President for them go into effect. As far as know.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/4/2025 @ 1:42 pmBetween the Founding and 1934 tariffs were imposed by various legislative acts passed by Congress and signed by the President. Congress first delegated its authority to impose tariffs in 1934 under the Reciprocal Tariff Act, which granted the President the authority to negotiate bilateral trade agreements.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/4/2025 @ 2:00 pmRip Murdock (75b245) — 4/4/2025 @ 2:00 pm
Wouldn’t the intent have been to give the president the authority to reduce or eliminate tariffs?
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 4/4/2025 @ 2:22 pmFor a third term possibility Trump is relying on the language in the 12th amendment not applying to subsequent disqualifications or something.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 4/4/2025 @ 2:24 pmMayor Adams did have the signatures he says and was claiming as late as Wednesday the day before he announced as an independent and that he would skip the Dem primary that he would not run as an independent. You can do both.
Maybe so long as the case was over his head he was afraid the governor might try to remove him.
BTW, I think the intent of DOJ was to prosecute Eric Adams as soon as he was no longer in office regardless of what he did, so as to clear themsleves of impropriety/
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 4/4/2025 @ 2:29 pmKevin M (a9545f) — 4/4/2025 @ 12:58 pm
There must be people who think the companies are fragile anyway.
It’s also the smaller GDP. That could be a small reduction in sales all by itself.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 4/4/2025 @ 2:33 pmSomeone told me this week that they won’t give Paxlovid to people who don’t fit the “criteria” and that she had bad effects from it and that she gaave some to her son who wasn’t prescribed it, and hat they wanted to charge her $1,700 at first (later $200)
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 4/4/2025 @ 2:37 pmAnd that 1.12 years ago her expensive car which she wasn’t driving got stolen (later recovered upstate still there and totaled) She did not have insurance and is still paying it off. Her son had told her to remove the hubs or something so that it should not be stolen.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 4/4/2025 @ 2:39 pmhttps://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/04/world/middleeast/gaza-protests-hamas.html?unlocked_article_code=1.9E4.-3uj.jsiksKcvRKq-&smid=url-share
terms for aceasefire are completely at odds. Israel wants Hamas to go while Hamas wants Israel to allow its restoration
Meanwhile Israel is getting more aggressive in Syria.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 4/4/2025 @ 2:44 pmWhat;s wrong with the previous comment?
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 4/4/2025 @ 2:44 pmIt was Trump who picked the stupidest tariff option, and it happened to be the Navarro Plan…
Trump chose the Stupidest Option only three hours before his “Liberation” speech.
Paul Montagu (b69d31) — 4/4/2025 @ 2:51 pmSee here and here for the various grants of tariff authorities from Congress to the President. He can raise, lower, or eliminate tariffs on his own.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/4/2025 @ 3:01 pmBoth of links in post 58 include analyses of relevant court decisions regarding presidential authority to impose tariffs.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/4/2025 @ 3:29 pmWhere is the “legislative veto” expressly described in Article I of the Constitution?
The power is over tariffs and legislation, both of which are in Article I. FDR demanded that Congress allow federal agencies to create “regulations” to deal with minor issues that Congress did not have time for. They assented, but only with the legislative veto provision, on the (fairly obvious) theory that if it were Congress attempting to pass the regulation, either house could stop it cold. This was well understood at the time as a conditional delegation of power.
So, they had the sole right to write legislation until 193x, then they said that the Executive branch could write regulations as long as Congress assented, which maintained their sole right over legislation through this conditional delegation. Until 1983, when the Supreme Court — without undoing the delegations — removed the condition. At that point the Supreme Court created an Executive right to create law which the executive did not have until then.
Similarly for tariffs.
So now, instead of defeating an Executive idea by ignoring it, they had to have 2/3rds of each house to overturn it. This is so absurd that it boggles the mind that intelligent people can defend it. White is NOT black. 2 + 2 = 4, dammit.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/4/2025 @ 4:05 pm> And passing a Constitutional amendment is no harder than overriding a veto.
Except you need to get it through 38 state legislatures.
aphrael (f20b74) — 4/4/2025 @ 4:10 pmCongress would need to repeal the legislation that delegates the authority to the President, or to regulate his authority.
Simpler: The Supreme Court could undo its terrible, no god, awful decision that created Executive powers out of whole cloth.
It’s like passing a rule where mortgage loans are still valid, but eliminating all recourse for the lender. The loan probably would not have been made without the recourse. Similarly the powers would not have been delegated to the Executive without the legislative veto.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/4/2025 @ 4:11 pm* also no good
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/4/2025 @ 4:12 pmExcept you need to get it through 38 state legislatures.
Indeed. You would get it through half of them, and then in a few years when the other party controls the WH, the other half would sign.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/4/2025 @ 4:13 pmWhat is particularly hilarious about Chadha is that tariffs or regulations, which can be issued by the President alone despite not being presidential powers, are deemed law — but for the legislature (whose powers they actually are) to block them requires bicameralism, presentment, and overcoming a likely veto.
The Courts have two ways to address this: they could restore the legislative vetoes in place in 1983, or they could strike down all delegations of legislative power in effect in 1983.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/4/2025 @ 4:18 pmOr maybe we just all accept that the President has dictatorial powers. That’s possible, too.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/4/2025 @ 4:20 pmHow?
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/4/2025 @ 4:50 pmAs you know, when the Supreme Court invalidates a law, or any part of a law, all similar laws or sections ate rendered unconstitutional without the courts ruling on each law. As when the Supreme Court invalidated the death penalty in Furman v. Georgia, all the death penalty statutes were declared unconstitutional without separate litigation.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/4/2025 @ 4:59 pmThe Supreme Court would need a “case or controversy” in order to consider overturning Chada, there is no authority in the Constitution for them to do so on their own.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/4/2025 @ 5:03 pmThe new West Wing theme song:
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/4/2025 @ 5:05 pmThe Supreme Court would need a “case or controversy” in order to consider overturning Chada, there is no authority in the Constitution for them to do so on their own.
Thank you Captain Obvious.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/4/2025 @ 5:05 pmThe laws that delegate the authority to impose tariffs or issue regulations are passed by Congress and signed by the President.
Footnotes to case citations omitted. Paragraph breaks added.
See also Mistretta v. United States, 488 U.S. 361, 372 (1989) (“So long as Congress ‘shall lay down by legislative act an intelligible principle to which the person or body authorized to exercise the delegated authority is directed to conform, such legislative action is not a forbidden delegation of legislative power.'” (quoting J.W. Hampton, Jr., & Co. v. United States, 276 U.S. 394, 409 (1928))); La. Pub. Serv. Comm’n v. FCC, 476 U.S. 355, 374 (1986) (“[A]n agency literally has no power to act . . . unless and until Congress confers power upon it.”).
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/4/2025 @ 5:31 pmYou seem to think the courts can just waive their wands and override Chada:
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/4/2025 @ 5:37 pmIf this is accurate, I agree with the gal, withdrawing in protest.
Paul Montagu (b69d31) — 4/4/2025 @ 5:45 pmThe laws that delegate the authority to impose tariffs or issue regulations are passed by Congress and signed by the President.
And each and every one of them reserved the legislative veto, to ensure that the delegated power was not misused. The President signed that part, too. In striking down one countervailing section of these laws, the Court ignored normal severability tests, particularly whether the intent or function of the law be fundamentally altered in the absence of the struck section.
As we have seen, the laws were fundamentally altered, transferring gobs and gobs of legislative power to the Executive with no functional recourse by Congress. It would be like striking down “foreclosures” in all mortgage contracts.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/4/2025 @ 5:55 pmThis is from January 31st and this from February 2nd, both making the argument that Trump’s tariffs under the IEEPA are unconstitutional under the “nondelegation” and “major questions” doctrines.
The arguments may be too dense for a five minute segment on the evening news.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/4/2025 @ 6:07 pmCan you provide an example?
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/4/2025 @ 6:09 pmDon’t bother; I’ll take your for it. As I said, it’s all water under the bridge since 1983. Unless Congress revives the legislative veto (and wins in court) or passes an amendment , it’s just tilting at windmills.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/4/2025 @ 6:27 pmin inferno requiescat
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/4/2025 @ 6:41 pmFederal judge say evidence show trump is deliberately sabotaging blue states. (DU) Good! Now striking back is an act of self defense!
asset (cd7f5a) — 4/4/2025 @ 8:29 pmCan you provide an example?
The first words of Justice White’s dissent (Page 462 U. S. 967)
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/4/2025 @ 9:48 pmUnless Congress revives the legislative veto (and wins in court) or passes an amendment , it’s just tilting at windmills.
Congress could pass a Resolution by majority vote and then sue asserting that it was sufficient to invalidate the Emergency decree. That opens the door a crack by itself.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/4/2025 @ 9:50 pmOne of the things that happen after global trade wars break out is actual wars break out. See Imperial Japan and the Greater East Asian Co-prosperity Sphere.
China, for example, has its behavior limited by the need to maintain its trade relations. Now? Freedom’s just another name for nothing left to lose. Hello, Taiwan!
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/4/2025 @ 9:57 pmAside from letting Navarro and monologue and filibuster, Smerconish was negligent in challenging Trump’s scam of a tariff chart. That was a massively disappointing interview.
Paul Montagu (b69d31) — 4/5/2025 @ 8:22 amSoon, we are going to have to change the old Dirksen line to: “A trillion here, a trillion there, and pretty soon you’re talking real money.”
Jim Miller (642bf6) — 4/5/2025 @ 8:23 amAs happens whenever the Court declares something that is multiple laws. Not unusual.
Congress could, (I’m not sure of its legality, but you would know better than I); but I’m sure that the House wouldn’t go along.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/5/2025 @ 8:30 amGeorge Will reminds us that, even before the tariffs, the Loser’s economic policies were a “disaster”.
Jim Miller (642bf6) — 4/5/2025 @ 8:40 amI doubt any challenge would make it beyond the appeals court stage. Congress would automatically lose at the district and appeals court levels, as they are obligated to follow Supreme Court precedent. And the SC would be under no obligation to rule on the matter.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/5/2025 @ 8:43 amBacking Trump, but nervous:
The Trade Review Act is also unlikely to become law, as it is doubtful that the House leadership would allow it receive a House floor vote; or survive a presidential veto.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/5/2025 @ 9:04 amI’m sure that the House wouldn’t go along.
I’m not sure of anything at the moment. These tariffs are such off-the-wall crazy fruitcake items that even the House Freedom Caucus has to be getting calls. When your backers see their portfolio drop 20% in two days, with no end in sight, they tend to get cross.
And remember, this is due to Trump declaring a national emergency — without that he doesn’t have the power delegated at all. Courts have some input there, and did have in Trump’s first term. Sure someone has to sue, but with these mishugganah tariffs someone will. There are gored oxen as far as the eye can see.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/5/2025 @ 10:28 amThe first threshold is that the Trade Review Act will require 13 Republican Senators to defy Trump to overcome a filibuster. That’s a tall order.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/5/2025 @ 10:52 amThe Supreme Court probably won’t hear any challenge until next year’s term. That’s a long time.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/5/2025 @ 10:55 amThe GOP doesn’t depend on upper middle class voters anymore, the kind that have retirement funds and stocks. The GOP is motivated to please white blue collar workers that assume the pain will trickle down to them but may enjoy seeing their managers, owners, and bosses take a financial hit for a change. Trump once again knows his voters.
Trump is using tariffs because it lets him demonize someone and gives him a story to tell. He could have argued for subsidies for core manufacturing and materials, like we do for farmers. That would make more sense but it would also be Congress in charge, not Trump, so that wasn’t going to happen.
DRJ (a84ee2) — 4/5/2025 @ 11:03 amThe administration’s goal of “re-shoring” manufacturing back to the US is at least a five year process, since it will take years to realign supply chains and build new factories and train a new workforce. These tariffs (using whatever authorities) will be here for a long time.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/5/2025 @ 11:09 amhe Trade Review Act is also unlikely to become law, as it is doubtful that the House leadership would allow it receive a House floor vote; or survive a presidential veto.
At this point in time, you’re right. Next month? Even a week is an eternity in this administration.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/5/2025 @ 11:22 amAlso, what will Trump do next?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/5/2025 @ 11:22 amI wouldn’t be surprised to see the House back Trump’s tariffs for at least the next six months, if not through the end of the current Congress. There may be a few wafflers from swing districts who will vote with the Democrats to pass the TRA, but not enough to override a veto.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/5/2025 @ 11:35 amOne thing I don’t expect is for Trump to reverse his tariffs.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/5/2025 @ 11:49 amI wouldn’t be surprised to see the House back Trump’s tariffs for at least the next six months, if not through the end of the current Congress.
If they back them for a month, they might as well go all in — the damage will have been done. Then they reap the whirlwind. The “R” brand would be toxic everywhere. Why? Because even if Trump’s grand plan works (and it won’t), there would be no meaningful gains before the mid-terms.
On a related note, the UN ambassador job is open. Who wants to defend this crap? Laura Loomer?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/5/2025 @ 11:54 amOne thing I don’t expect is for Trump to reverse his tariffs.
I admit I’d expect the courts or the Congress to do that before Trump would because he’s stubborn-stupid.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/5/2025 @ 11:56 amLink for post 103.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/5/2025 @ 12:07 pmI’ve been reading a lot from people who support Trump and listening to what they have to say as well as what Trump has to say.
Well, it’s never a smart move to take Trump or his supporters at their word, because they lie a ton, the consistent theme is that they want to enable hourly workers, blue-collar workers, to attain a middle class lifestyle.
Their solution is to increase US manufacturing. It seems like they’re solving for the wrong thing. In the 5060s and 70s people who worked in manufacturing and were paid by the hour could attain middle class lifestyles.
This wasn’t because there was something about manufacturing that was inherently better paying because of the type of work. It was better paying because the workers were able to capture a greater portion of corporate profits.
I’ve spent about 20 years working in manufacturing. Non union shops at the lower end of the value stream pay a buck or two more an hour than McDonald’s and have mediocre benefits. Higher and manufacturing work, safe for an auto maker pays better. But that’s not because General Motors Ford or Toyota just want to pay more, that’s because there’s a union, forcing the company to give them a greater share of profits.
I’m well aware that Toyota doesn’t have a union. But it’s well understood that they pay their workers comparable to what union workers get paid. If they don’t, they’re hourly workers will invite the UAW in. Toyota, like most transplants, also uses contract workers who make a lot
Time (55999a) — 4/5/2025 @ 1:05 pmLess than their direct workers, do the worst jobs, and get fired when they need to reduce capacity.
To be clear, I am not advocating a significant increase in unionization. I think the negative impacts on innovation far away any benefits.
Time (55999a) — 4/5/2025 @ 1:17 pm@time
(in the world of reasons nic is a moderate)
IMO there needs to be a balance. Unions are a stabilizing force for society. At an appropriate level they create a system that allows for strong, solid middle class families and long term economic success, stable social communities and therefore community values, and stronger local institutions (community groups like VFW, churches, scouting organizations, etc). Too much stability, though, can become stagnation. No unions is a destabilizing factor, which can lead to a high reward environment, but also a high failure environment. To much destabilization can result in a nasty boom/bust cycle that cleans out anyone without a solid financial foundation (and some people who do have one) and more volatile social communities with less long term investments in local communities and local institutions. Gold-rush ghost towns, for example. There is a similar problem with regulation/deregulation IMO.
Nic (120c94) — 4/5/2025 @ 1:49 pm@105
FIFY
The post-war world provided very little competition to US manufacturers. That meant that even if unions got their way, and in those years they did, the companies still thrived. Unions weren’t the cause of higher blue collar incomes, only the symptom of what drove it at that time.
Obviously, that world is gone. I don’t like tariffs, but I understand the thinking that it’s not a level playing field. There are better ways of addressing it. Those who frame it as free trade vs. tariffs aren’t acknowledging reality.
lloyd (ad7579) — 4/5/2025 @ 1:56 pmTexas gov. says no time table to fill houston congressional seat with another democrat.
asset (5f9249) — 4/5/2025 @ 2:16 pmHow much</a?
The idea that “ending the war between Russia and Ukraine, securing peace in Israel and Gaza and deterring Iran” will occur during the foreseeable future is laughable. One or all three will still be occurring over the next two years. Notably, the White House official who said this left out the acquisition of Gaza.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/5/2025 @ 2:48 pmSorry about the broken link.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/5/2025 @ 2:49 pmOf course, if acquiring Greenland is a strategic imperative for the US, it shouldn’t matter if Greenlanders (or the Danes) support the idea or not.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/5/2025 @ 2:54 pmLloyd, if you look at earnings reports for modern companies and union companies that still operate today, you can see that there is room for workers to claim a larger share of the profits. Also, my short analysis is by no means exhaustive, and you’re correct that the devastation done to the rest of the world was a big enabler for American manufacturing.
But my point was that bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US in of itself isn’t likely to address the problem of low skilled workers being able to attain a middle class lifestyle. Some mechanism is needed for those workers to successfully demand a larger share of the profits.
Today Costco has OK healthcare benefits, and pays $18 an hour, they’re not unionized, but the total compensation of a clerk at Costco is on par with what you would expect from a union shop and the target corporation is very profitable.
Again, just to strip out the union stuff cause I know that’s a partisan issue. If I take Trump supporters that there were that what they’re trying to achieve is a better standard of living for low. Skilled workers restoring manufacturing is not going to give them what they want, unless there is also a mechanism for those workers to get a bigger share of the profits
Time (55999a) — 4/5/2025 @ 3:07 pmTime, by “mechanism”, do you mean the government? Like wage and price controls?
What’s wrong with letting the market set the wage? You know, capitalism, competition, and all that.
I am against some government mandarin saying, “This company here is making too much profit”.
I think the problem in today’s world is that people study too much philosophy, and not enough economics. This is also true concerning tariffs.
norcal (cdf133) — 4/5/2025 @ 4:20 pmBy the way, I’m all for unions, as long as the company has the right to permanently replace striking workers, if it is so inclined. If a worker can replace an employer (get another job) for any reason, the company can replace a worker for any reason.
Capitalism is a two-way street, yet so many people want to carve out exceptions to it.
The closest thing we’ve seen to pure capitalism was in Hong Kong prior to the Chinese takeover. And guess what? It worked.
norcal (cdf133) — 4/5/2025 @ 4:53 pmNorcal, I’m not advocating for how to effectively fix the problem that the Trump supporters have identified. I’m commenting that their proposed solution seems unlikely to work on its own. Like you I think market-based solutions are probably most effective.
Time (55999a) — 4/5/2025 @ 4:56 pmTime (55999a) — 4/5/2025 @ 4:56 pm
👍
norcal (cdf133) — 4/5/2025 @ 4:59 pmStudents of neither. But hey, I don’t want to pay more for my trinkets, so f’ em.
BuDuh (021787) — 4/5/2025 @ 5:17 pmThere’s nothing wrong with boycotting goods made with child labor.
Have at your straw man.
norcal (cdf133) — 4/5/2025 @ 5:24 pmNorcal, a pissy and somewhat dishonest way to say it would be this ; “ Trump and his supporters want to use tariffs to bring manufacturing back from China to the US, so that American workers can enjoy the high standard of living Chinese workers do.”
Time (55999a) — 4/5/2025 @ 5:25 pmBuddha honest question for you, when making regular purchase decisions, do you spend a lot of time researching the ethical labor practices of the companies that provide your food and material goods?
Time (55999a) — 4/5/2025 @ 5:26 pmI wanted to add that that information is available and thanks to the not it’s not particularly time consuming to find. But it does limit your choices and drive up the costs.
Time (549566) — 4/5/2025 @ 5:27 pmTime (55999a) — 4/5/2025 @ 5:25 pm
Good point.
In light of the tariffs, I think this quote from renowned economist Friedrich Hayek is more important than ever:
norcal (cdf133) — 4/5/2025 @ 5:30 pmI should not have interrupted you two. My apologies.
BuDuh (021787) — 4/5/2025 @ 5:33 pmNorCal, yup. Trying to model complex systems is hard.
Time (549566) — 4/5/2025 @ 5:38 pmWSJ Poll 4/4/25
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/5/2025 @ 5:41 pmI’m hoping that construction unions aren’t Trump’s model. Pretty much the only place you will see workers getting union wages in construction are those where the government mandates that pay scale (“prevailing wages”). One of the reasons why they can’t build housing faster in California is that the state mandates union wages on most projects.
A recent study shows that:
* Per-unit construction costs for new-construction projects that paid prevailing wages are approximately $94,000 higher than for projects that did not.
* Per-unit costs for rehabilitation projects that pay prevailing wages are about $48,000 higher than for projects that did not.
* Leaving out high- and low-cost projects (like those in the Bay Area and in rural parts of the state), the prevailing wage price premium averages about $83,000 per unit.
Maybe that will be the model for these new manufacturing jobs, kind of a 1960’s Disneyland of a workplace where wages are set according to a government scale.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/5/2025 @ 6:17 pmWe’re all for free markets, capitalism and the invisible hand. Yep.
That’s why the legal profession lets anyone, working from any country, do legal work here for the lowest possible wage. That’s why federal workers have always had to worry (pre DOGE) that their jobs will be outsourced. That’s why you don’t need a CPA to do financial audits.
To me, I think it’s easier to justify charging a tariff on countries exploiting slave labor than some of the market manipulations that are just accepted as normal here in the US.
lloyd (b179cf) — 4/5/2025 @ 6:53 pmCostco isn’t a manufacturer. They do well because they deal directly with the public and provide excellent quality and service. Same with Starbucks. Apple is a manufacturer which deals directly with the public. If you’re good at quality and service, and the public chooses, you can thrive.
I have a friend who works in the chip fab business. Primary customer is Intel. Years ago, he had an offer to join TSMC but turned it down because he knew there would be no work/life balance there. That’s a manufacturer that doesn’t work directly with the public. It’s all about price and performance and yield. There’s no real profit sharing going on there or worker perks. That’s what most companies and most workers are competing with. Haven’t spoken to him in a long while but I’m guessing he regrets not taking that job, with all the known negatives.
lloyd (4c5a48) — 4/5/2025 @ 7:32 pmTrump and his supporters: Social conservatives and economic anti-free trade pro tariff populists. Sanders/AOC and their supporters social liberals and economic anti-free trade pro tariff populists. Democrat party establishment on orders from the donors: social liberals free trade anti tariff economic libertarians. A small group in the political wilderness: conservatives. Republicans in congress call themselves conservatives ;but take their orders from trump so they don’t join you in the wilderness.
asset (796ec4) — 4/5/2025 @ 8:03 pmWell-put, asset. That’s an insightful comment.
norcal (cdf133) — 4/5/2025 @ 8:08 pmThere is a cruelty about these cuts that is hard to believe:
And a stupidity. We have gained enormous good will from the program.
And it is in our interest to fight infectious diseases in other nations, before they get here. By reducing HIV in Africa, we made it less likely that some even nastier variant might come here.
Jim Miller (354c0e) — 4/6/2025 @ 5:30 am@107
There’s also another argument to try to setup conditions to repatriate manufacture ring companies/jobs into the US.
Look at what the COVID19 shutdown did to the supply chain.
That exposed the weakness of how much we’re reliant on the global markets.
Most of our raw medication ingredients comes from China.
We are still, not well structured to weather another COVID19 or if a major war breaks out.
I don’t know if Trump’s tariff plans would work…but, we do know that the status quo isn’t working either.
whembly (003ea2) — 4/6/2025 @ 6:21 amInteresting counter-point to those whom are doomering over tariffs:
whembly (003ea2) — 4/6/2025 @ 6:35 amhttps://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2025/04/06/trumps_multiprong_tariff_strategy_152613.html
A problem that can be fixed with money is not a problem.
I am more concerned with this kind of thing:Justice Dept. Accuses Top Immigration Lawyer of Failing to Follow Orders
That’s “Where’s My Roy Cohn” kind of sh!t and it has no place in a so-called Department of Justice. The Department of Obstruction of Justice, maybe.
Lawyers are required to represent their clients zealously within the bounds of the law. That does not include lying to, dissembling, or stonewalling the court.
Needless to say, I expected no better from Bondi. I remember when she appointed a special prosecutor to go after George Zimmerman after the local Florida State Attorney had found that there was no case for prosecution.
nk (9f60ec) — 4/6/2025 @ 6:52 amLloyd, I’ve working in manufacturing for the last 20 years and I agree with you, it can be hard. But that wasn’t my point. My point was that bring manufacturing back to the US will not by itself create jobs that produce a middle class life style.
It’s sort of a cargo cult mentality. Because ppl working in factories in what is now the rust belt had middle class lives more factories will create more middle class lives.
But it’s a weak connection. Many of the people working in factories today can’t afford middle class lives.
Maybe more factories will lead to higher wages. Maybe it won’t. Maybe it will lead to higher levels of automation combined with less consumer choice.
We’re also putting tariff’s on foreign agriculture products, but farm work doesn’t pay middle class wages. You can’t go work on a dairy farm in Wisconsin and expect to buy a 3 bedroom house in a nice neighborhood off your wages.
Right now it looks like this is resulting in a lowering of trad barriers by some countries. I think that’s great, but it’s not going to do much to return Gary Indiana to its former glory.
Time (e5e0dc) — 4/6/2025 @ 6:54 amLloyd, specific examples of where there are expecptions to a general principle doesn’t mean the value of the principle is zero or that people who claim to support it are lying.
For example, I believe in a right to bear arms at the individual level but i also think that laws prohibiting private ownership of hand grenades, claymore mines, and belt fed machine guns are reasonable. Doesn’t mean i don’t support the right to self defenss just because I don’t want general dynamics to be able to sell Nukes to anyone that would like to buy.
Time (e5e0dc) — 4/6/2025 @ 6:58 amTrumpists have become 1990s labor union Democrats.
Trump and his adoring followers can’t have it both ways.
On one side of his mouth, he said, “Starting on day one, we will end inflation and make America affordable again, to bring down the prices of all goods.”
On the other side of his mouth, he employed a unilateral trade war attack on every country on earth (except Russia, Belarus and North Korea) that raises prices on all foreign goods, which is nothing but inflationary.
Yesterday, I paid $4.10 a gallon at Costco, which is 18.1% higher than the $3.47 I spent right after Inauguration Day. I’m not seeing this “end inflation” business or this “We’re going to get your energy prices down by 50%.”
Paul Montagu (b69d31) — 4/6/2025 @ 8:00 amPaul, I think energy goods like oil are exempt from the Tarrifs.
Time (55999a) — 4/6/2025 @ 8:27 am@138
Bruh, where you living?
In MO/ILL, gas prices are plummeting to sub-$3.00.
However, I doubt it’s a reflection of the “drill, baby, drill” this administration’s policies are going after, as it’ll take a weee bit more time to see that kind of affect on fuel prices. I think it’s because the market is tanking, is having a downstream affect on fuel prices as the market is pricing in economic slowdowns.
whembly (003ea2) — 4/6/2025 @ 8:30 amTo recap, Trump initiated a unilateral trade war attack against every country on earth except Russia, Belarus and North Korea.
Not only that, his new tariffs are higher than the crap-laden Smoot-Hawley tariffs, which only served to worsen a depression.
Not only that, his “Tariffs Charged to the US” is a Big Fat Lie, because they’re based on a dumbarse formula by Peter Navarro; they’re not actual tariffs and they’re not actually charged to the US. Pete’s absurd dumbarse formula is…
…and that answer has nothing to do with actual tariffs.
Not only that, because “Tariff Charged to the US” is a Big Fat Whopping Lie, then “USA Discounted Reciprocal Tariffs” is also a Big Fat Lie, because there’s no “discounted”, just big hikes, and there’s no “reciprocal”.
This is not only a unilateral attack on all these nations, Trump’s attack is a fraud, a scam, based on complete bullsh-t.
Bottom line, Trump has not only ruined trade policy with every nation except for Russia and maybe China, he’s damaged our foreign policy with those nations as well. Trade policy is part of foreign policy, a major part.
This maneuver of Trump’s is likely one of the dumbest, most damaging things an American president has ever done, and for no good reason, invoked because president dishonestly declared that we had a worldwide trade “emergency”, thus allotting him these “emergency” powers.
What kind of negotiating strategy is it to sit across the table from 150 disparate trading entities and play Art of the Deal? There’s nothing fair or reasonable about this. It’s an extension of Trump’s bullying and general malevolence. China wins, Putin wins. Everyone else, including us, loses.
If Congressional Republicans had any nards on them, they’d join the Democrats and take the manbaby’s tariff toy away.
Paul Montagu (b69d31) — 4/6/2025 @ 8:32 am@141
That’s because those nations already has sanctions levied on them.
whembly (003ea2) — 4/6/2025 @ 8:33 amNot true about Russia. According to the Office of the US Trade Representative (part of the Executive Office of the President):
So far in 2025 the US has exported $84.8 billion in goods to Russia and imported $535.8 billion, resulting in total trade deficit of-$451.0 billion.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/6/2025 @ 8:58 amLink to Russia USTR data.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/6/2025 @ 9:00 amCorrection to post 143:
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/6/2025 @ 9:04 amWe won’t know for sure until April 9th. WSJ…
Trump granted exemptions to Canada and Mexico “indefinitely”, which includes energy. The thing is that he can’t tariff energy without raising energy costs.
Paul Montagu (b69d31) — 4/6/2025 @ 9:04 amThen what’s the problem with putting tariffs on top? We still import Russian goods, $3 billion in 2024, like it or not.
Paul Montagu (b69d31) — 4/6/2025 @ 9:06 amThe Tax Foundation has more detail.
Paul Montagu (b69d31) — 4/6/2025 @ 9:08 amUsing Navarro’s brainless calculations, “Tariffs Charged to the US” by Russia is 84%, therefore the “reciprocal” tariff on the Putin terrorist regime should be 42%.
Paul Montagu (b69d31) — 4/6/2025 @ 9:10 amThe Republican Congress has willfully abdicated its responsibility to the American people out of fear of Trump and being primaried, where they could possibly lose their jobs. However, if the financial hurt to everyday Republicans, not millionaires, hits personal thresholds, Congress members may actually risk losing their jobs because they sat on their hands and did nothing to aid those financially suffering as a result of the tariffs.
Dana (ca946c) — 4/6/2025 @ 9:39 amIt figures that Navarro had his own sock puppet, appearing a dozen times in five of his thirteen books. It’s what intellectually dishonest third-rate economists do.
Another MAGA, Glenn Greenwald, would be proud.
Paul Montagu (b69d31) — 4/6/2025 @ 9:40 amTo me, I think it’s easier to justify charging a tariff on countries exploiting slave labor than some of the market manipulations that are just accepted as normal here in the US.
I have no problem with tariffs on countries like that, but explain Canada.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/6/2025 @ 9:50 amIt’s not just the 1990s labor union Democrat mentality that opposes free trade…
Actually, the “protective system of our day” isn’t traditionally conservative, because Reagan conservatives support free trade.
Paul Montagu (b69d31) — 4/6/2025 @ 9:51 amThen why not sanction or tariff or quota the companies that actually use slave labor? Why penalize every single import?
This is not unlike DOGE and the J6 pardons, where Trump’s actions are sweeping instead of selective.
Paul Montagu (b69d31) — 4/6/2025 @ 9:57 amSo, my wife does some 12-step counseling. One of the people she works with is a federal employee. She relayed this story to me:
Last week the employee goes to the D.C. headquarters office and finds thousands of people milling outside, talking in little groups and some crying. Apparently, DOGE has fired 10,000 people in her department, but only notified them with an email at 3AM. Most went to work, through D.C. traffic, only to find their badges no longer gave access. The employee was one of the “lucky” ones who still had a job, for now. Needless to say her morale isn’t good.
There are right ways to do these things, and there are poor ways to do them. This was on the cruel end of poor. I have no problem with downsizing the federal government, but that doesn’t mean I’m OK with treating people like dirt.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/6/2025 @ 9:59 amThat’s why the legal profession lets anyone, working from any country, do legal work here for the lowest possible wage.
Yeah, which is why I have long said that the people who backed Trump had valid grievances. The Texas border areas went for Trump despite being majority Hispanic. They were hurt badly by Biden’s influx of new green-card holders, willing to work for low wages as they had none of the responsibilities of their neighbors.
Even professionals like engineers and IT have to compete with tag teams of guest workers working for low wages. The consulting marketplace for these professionals has been savaged by H-1B workers willing to work for a third of the previously normal pay while sleeping 6 to a room and eating ramen for a year. Then they go home with “riches” and are replaced by the next batch. A US person who has a family to feed and college loans to repay just cannot do that.
HOWEVER, this does not justify these insane tariffs. Why stripping Mexico of manufacturing is going to help the immigration problem is beyond me.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/6/2025 @ 10:09 amBTW, it is really disingenuous of the press to conflate the various immigration statuses with the term “green-card holder” as the Biden regime (and Obama before him) handed those things out like candy to anyone they were not actively trying to deport.
Asylum applicants, parolees, DACA all the way up to permanent residents have the same green card. Not all have the same right to be here.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/6/2025 @ 10:13 amThat’s a manufacturer that doesn’t work directly with the public. It’s all about price and performance and yield. There’s no real profit sharing going on there or worker perks.
Highly trained workers in those jobs, particularly in the design end, are well paid. Sure, Intel has it’s problems, but they had NOTHING to do with treating workers well, they had to do with bean-counter management skimping on tools. They said “do more with less” while their competitors did more with more.
Nvidia would have been the place to move to anyway. High pay AND perks, plus a rocketing stock (at least until a few weeks ago).
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/6/2025 @ 10:19 amTrumpists have become 1990s labor union Democrats.
Dick Gephardt must be thrilled.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/6/2025 @ 10:20 amYesterday, I paid $4.10 a gallon at Costco
I paid $1.89 at Smith’s (NM version of Kroger). Of course, since I also buy food there, I had a $1 discount per gallon, but still. Posted gas prices have been fluctuating between $2.50 and $3.00 for the last year here.
California (and, apparently Phoenix) prices are an outlier. Even NYC has gas that’s TWO dollars/gallon cheaper than most of L.A. (NYC is $2.60-$3.00 right now. $3.10 in Manhattan)
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/6/2025 @ 10:31 amBut, in general, the protective system of our day is conservative, while the free trade system is destructive.
In Marx’s day, the Liberals pushed free trade and the Conservatives pushed protecting vested interests. See the Corn Laws for how that worked.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/6/2025 @ 10:39 amThis is not unlike DOGE and the J6 pardons, where Trump’s actions are sweeping instead of selective.
Largely based on resentment instead of information.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/6/2025 @ 10:40 amThe vast majority of House and Senate Republicans support what the President is doing. Witness that only four Republican Senators, on of which is retiring, voted to overturn Trump’s Canadian emergency declaration. And House Republicans adopted a rule just last month that prevents consideration of any similar resolution.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/6/2025 @ 10:45 am@whembly@133 I think there are probably ways to use specific, targeted, tariffs that could encourage the consumer to support more products made in the US and more manufacturers to return to the US. I don’t think putting crazy tariffs on everything from everywhere is the right way to go about it. I think that is just an invitation to economic meltdown.
Nic (120c94) — 4/6/2025 @ 10:45 amThe economic meltdown is a necessary step towards the goal, which is obliterating the post-war economic order. Trump thinks the entire world trade system (which *we built*, largely) is stacked against us and ruinous to our economy, so the solution is to destroy it and restore the late nineteenth century trade system and economic order. That’s the goal, and that’s why he’s going about it with *massive* tariffs unlike anything we’ve seen in days.
It’s *going to be* an absolute disaster for pretty much the entire world. And the rest of the world is going to blame us; the soft power of persuasion that was a huge part of our domination of the west is now *gone*.
The gamble is that in a generation we’ll be better off than we would have been had we not done this, and a decade or two of economic pain will be worth it in the end. I seriously doubt it, but I lost the argument, and this is now the course we’re on, for good or for ill.
aphrael (eac18a) — 4/6/2025 @ 10:50 amYou may be right, aphrael, because who knows why Trump does things? But this sounds straight out of Peter Navarro’s economic theories at Wiki:
DRJ (a84ee2) — 4/6/2025 @ 11:03 amPersonally, I think Trump gave us broad enough hint when he equated the foreign nations VAT (Value Added Tax) with tariffs.
This is his way of imposing a national sales tax, which he could not do any other way.
nk (6e3dc0) — 4/6/2025 @ 11:05 amFirst term Presidents seem to struggle with policies. They often get a grip in their second terms, if they get one. It’s better if they have their own principles and theories to guide them. If not, they sometimes latch onto one person. I think Trump did that with Musk and Navarro.
DRJ (a84ee2) — 4/6/2025 @ 11:06 amDo you really think he understands or cares about that, nk, or that he repeats what he hears?
DRJ (a84ee2) — 4/6/2025 @ 11:07 am@155
Welcome to how private sectors layoff people.
whembly (003ea2) — 4/6/2025 @ 11:09 amFrankly, I think Trump was sold these policies as a way to make America great again by isolating it economically and making it less dependent on the world.
Historically, that is how America reacts in the face of global change, insecurity and upheaval.
DRJ (a84ee2) — 4/6/2025 @ 11:10 amA second, unvaccinated, child has died from measles in Texas.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/6/2025 @ 11:13 amTrump didn’t need to be “sold” on tariffs; he has spoken out in favor of tariffs for decades.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/6/2025 @ 11:15 amThat also would explain his Canada obsession. Almost 20% of US steel comes from Canada. It is the largest source of steel we import. He wants to acquire Canada to make the US more self-sufficient.
DRJ (a84ee2) — 4/6/2025 @ 11:18 amI was referring to Navarro’s policies Rip Murdock. They include tariffs but is more than that.
DRJ (a84ee2) — 4/6/2025 @ 11:19 am@164
I’m sorta on the outside here because I think everyone is missing the point.
My views are colored by things like the COVID shutdown and by act-of-god events, like hurricane Maria hitting Puerto Rico knocking out the Baxer plant.
It’s all about the supply chain. Our way of live depends on it.
I’ve already described the more global issues with the COVID shutdown… the Baxer plant in Puerto Rico is on the opposite end of the supply chain philosophy. That plant provides nearly 90 % of all fluid medications (NS, D5, D10, etc…) in the US. When hurricane Maria knocked into that island, that plant was down for several months and caused a national shortage of these manufactured premixed fluids. That forced hospitals to scramble and staff up their compounding pharmacies to fill in the gap for their institutions.
It’s a microcosm of the supply chain issue at a national scale that we are at a severe risk for future disruption.
Are tariffs a useful mechanism to repatriate manufacturing to the US? Maybe…maybe not. But, I don’t think that should be the only end result here.
I think Trump’s tariff gambit is the “whole kitchen sink” approach, in that, there can be SEVERAL favorable outcomes we could be looking at. Namely, forcing these nations back to the negotiating table to reduce their tariffs.
whembly (003ea2) — 4/6/2025 @ 11:21 am> > > Apparently, DOGE has fired 10,000 people in her department, but only notified them with an email at 3AM. Most went to work, through D.C. traffic, only to find their badges no longer gave access.
> Welcome to how private sectors layoff people.
I’ve been working in the private sector for thirty one years and have been laid off four times. Not a single one of them was handled like this.
I’ve been laid off on the phone while I was driving, and i’ve been laid off on the phone while I was on the other side of the country. I’ve been laid off by email sent at 7am with my badge turned off *effective the end of that day*.
I’ve never once been laid off in such a fashion where the most plausible way for me to find out was to show up at work and find that my badge didn’t work.
This isn’t normal private sector behavior, at least not in my experience.
aphrael (eac18a) — 4/6/2025 @ 11:24 amAutarky has destroyed the economy of every country that’s tried it in the modern age, Whembly … because everyone else who isn’t simultaneously trying autarky is able to be substantially more efficient.
But I guess we need to relearn that lesson. Sucks to be us.
aphrael (eac18a) — 4/6/2025 @ 11:27 am@aphrael@165 IDK if Trump wants the 1890s, but Musk seems like he does. The 1890s were terrible for almost everyone except certain kinds of wealthy industrialist even though that boom/bust cycle of that economic period led to the great depression and probably most of the US flirtations with communism and socialism at the time. Trump’s constituents don’t want the 1890s, they want the 1950s.
Nic (120c94) — 4/6/2025 @ 11:30 amI think it is Bayer, whembly, not Baxer, and my family was directly impacted by that shortage. It was a concern to allow sourcing of such a vital product like IV fluids to be so susceptible to disruptions (in that case, Hurricane Helene). But clearly that was what the market decided since there were no other significant US plants.
At that time, I think there were only 4 IV fluid manufacturers worldwide. When Bayer went down, the other 3 ramped up production. All 3 are outside the US. How will tariffs and America First keep this from happening again?
DRJ (a84ee2) — 4/6/2025 @ 11:31 amCorrection: Maria not Helene, as whembly said.
DRJ (a84ee2) — 4/6/2025 @ 11:35 amNote: the first sentence with the link should not have been blockquoted.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/6/2025 @ 11:39 am@177
It’s fairly common. Happened to me twice and I know of several folks in my circle that found out that they’re out of the job when they were locked out of their office.
Government works shouldn’t expect any different.
whembly (003ea2) — 4/6/2025 @ 11:40 amWembley, it would be a lot easier to understand if I am in favor of Trump’s policies here if I had a clear explanation of what the end result was. It feels like he’s done this and other people inclined to support him such as yourself point to any possible good that happens or sign that something good is happening or could happen as a justification.
I’ve seen people write that the purpose is to bring the American dream back to low income workers.
I’ve seen people write that the purpose is to drive the bond rate down to lower interest rates on the national debt.
I’ve seen people write that the purpose is to remove other countries barriers to our products and increase free trade. This is a girl that I would be very much in supportive of.
I seen people write that the purpose is to make the United States more self-sufficient, it seems like you’re currently selling this idea.
What I haven’t seen is a clearly stated end goal from Trump.
In that absence, I’ve seen people write that this is just Trump lashing out because he’s fueled by grievance.
In that absence, I’ve seen people write that he’s trying to put pressure on Canada to force them to become part of the United States.
In that absence, I’ve seen people right that this is driven because Trump has little understanding of macro economics.
Again, this would be better if there were a clear explanation from Trump of what the end goal is. When I talk about him not being a competent leader this lack of clarity on what we’re actually trying to accomplish as an example of that. Since there is a high likelihood that there will be a significant cost to these actions I think his inability or unwillingness to share that is a real problem.
Time (74e7b3) — 4/6/2025 @ 11:41 am@181
Yup, Helene was almost as disruptive as Maria.
How will tariffs and America First keep this from happening again?
Dunno. In this case, I absolutely want these manufacturers to repatriate to the US, in fact, we should have multiple plants throughout the US to accommodate this load balance. I would even support the idea of a government-private partnership to facilitate this.
whembly (003ea2) — 4/6/2025 @ 11:44 am@whembly@176 I don’t think that’s realistic in today’s world, but if the goal is to almost totally reduce dependence on the global supply chain, Canada and Mexico would be far better partners than opponents since it would be very hard to disrupt the supply chain between our three countries and still allow for a broader trade base. It would also mean that the US would need to tolerate probably at least 20 years of pretty severe economic suffering while our economy totally revamps itself and even if it were able to, top end businesses would have a much more restricted ability to be successful and most global corporations would cease to exist in the US.
Nic (120c94) — 4/6/2025 @ 11:46 am@185
I think Trump, and his band of yahoos are purposely obfuscating what they want, because they don’t know what’s going to happen. Whatever “good” thing that happens, they’re going to latch onto that and claim success.
They’re already kinda doing that now, by pointing out the additional $1 Trillion dollar foreign investors since the election.
*hand waves* All of this *hand waves*
We’ve rarely get that from any government…why should we expect Trump is going to change that dynamic?
whembly (003ea2) — 4/6/2025 @ 11:49 amThat’s what NAFTA was about. Free trade zone for the Americas.
DRJ (a84ee2) — 4/6/2025 @ 11:51 amBut it morphed into free immigration, which of course was not the goal.
DRJ (a84ee2) — 4/6/2025 @ 11:52 am@187
I’m not advocating to be go totally isolationist and expect the US to manufacture everything.
When the national security apparatick of the US should be advocating for, is something like Vertical Integration for critical supplies at scale within the US (not by one company either):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_integration
Honestly, once some parity is settled with US, Canada and Mexico I think there should be something akin to the Marshall Plan to help facilitate some investments to Central & South America, with the purpose to encourage jobs for those people, so that they don’t feel like they have to migrate to North America to find a better life.
That’s partly what USAID, and some subsidiary, was supposed to do, but failed.
whembly (003ea2) — 4/6/2025 @ 11:55 am@189
Ideally, yes… but it turned into something else entirely.
whembly (003ea2) — 4/6/2025 @ 11:58 am@190
Heh… I need to refresh my page more often, but yup.
XD
whembly (003ea2) — 4/6/2025 @ 11:59 amWembley, making a big change so that you can claim credit for whatever happens to be good on the other side is a terrible strategy. While there can be benefits to strategic ambiguity, there are also significant costs.
For instance, if the goal is to bring manufacturing back to the United States, then that needs to be made clear and some commitments to market barriers need to be made. No one is going to want to invest in a new factory because foreign competitors can no longer enter without paying a significant tax unless they think that tax is going to be in place long enough to make the endeavor profitable.
Another cost is if the goal is increased free trade generally then that should be made clear so that our partners know that they need to negotiate and wait it out, and not assume that they need to find new markets.
Time (55999a) — 4/6/2025 @ 12:02 pmAnd House Republicans adopted a rule just last month that prevents consideration of any similar resolution.
Won’t stop a discharge petition
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/6/2025 @ 12:08 pm@DJR@189 and whembly@191 IIRC the goal of NAFTA was originally to bring up the mexican economy through manufacturing and trade and so create a larger free trade region and reduce illegal immigration. I think we got distracted by China, though, and the economic improvements meant to go to Mexico ended up going to China.
Nic (120c94) — 4/6/2025 @ 12:14 pm> Government works shouldn’t expect any different.
*Everyone* should expect different. It’s a terrible way to treat people, and in almost cases it’s unnecessary, and reveals that the person doing it doesn’t actually think of employees as *people*.
aphrael (eac18a) — 4/6/2025 @ 12:14 pmIt’s *going to be* an absolute disaster for pretty much the entire world. And the rest of the world is going to blame us; the soft power of persuasion that was a huge part of our domination of the west is now *gone*.
Economics 1.0 will not work well in an Economics 2.5 world. I think it’s more likely that the rest of the world will just treat the USA as outside their free market. In two years it’s going to be hard to get an LG dryer or a BMW auto. Even if, in many cases, they’d bite the bullet and build plants here, Trump’s tearing up all our trade agreements shows that he can’t be trusted so they won’t make the investment.
Instead it will be two to four hard years, depending on how long it takes the voters to eject him and all his works. Then some Democrat gets to do the world apology tour.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/6/2025 @ 12:15 pm@196
Absolutely this. And Canada too.
whembly (003ea2) — 4/6/2025 @ 12:15 pm@197
I understand you position, and been in those fired worker’s shoes.
It’s not the real world, and wishing it otherwise is simply a waste.
Employer – Employee loyalty is nearly a unicorn, unfortunately.
whembly (003ea2) — 4/6/2025 @ 12:18 pm@182: I think that Stern is unnecessarily pessimistic. Apple can begin building plants in the US, along with suppliers. Assembly of these devices is mostly done by machines anyway — if they were built by hand the reliability would be terrible; many parts are measured in micrometers. Of course, that doesn’t mean there would be a lot of workers; not even as many as in China as higher level assembly would be automated, too.
That being said, it would be 5 years before anything meaningful changed with Apple products.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/6/2025 @ 12:20 pmA silver lining:
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/6/2025 @ 12:22 pmWelcome to how private sectors layoff people.
really? I’ve worked in the private sector all my life and I’ve experience the quick death of a big company (Atari, Inc). Even with companies that were shedding people while failing, I’ve never seen anything like this.
Feel free to give an example because I’ve never seen it.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/6/2025 @ 12:23 pmIt’s going to be a long five (or more) years of coercive tariffs to get all of what is manufactured overseas moved to the United States. 🇺🇸
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/6/2025 @ 12:26 pmif the goal is to almost totally reduce dependence on the global supply chain, Canada and Mexico would be far better partners than opponents since it would be very hard to disrupt the supply chain between our three countries and still allow for a broader trade base.
How soon we forget the massive backup at the Port of Los Angeles due to incompetence and regulatory idiocy. Like the City of Long Beach declaring that you could not offload ships if containers were already stacked two high waiting for trucks. Not for safety reasons, but for esthetics.
So, people said, “near-shoring.” It would suck to have invested in that in 2022.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/6/2025 @ 12:30 pmIt’s going to be a long five (or more) years of coercive tariffs to get all of what is manufactured overseas moved to the United States.
Far more, of course. I was talking about NEW lines (e.g. iRobots). Getting the suppliers and stuff lined up for just that would take 5 years.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/6/2025 @ 12:32 pm“Yields are going down today,” White House trade adviser Peter Navarro said in a CNBC interview Thursday. “What does that mean? Mortgage rates are going to come down. That is going to have a nice bounce for our housing sector.”
If only building supplies weren’t going up in cost.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/6/2025 @ 12:33 pmIf AOC is our next president — with a filibuster-proof Senate — it will be the GOP’s own damn fault.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/6/2025 @ 12:35 pmI was talking about NEW lines
Well, I was thinking about new lines.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/6/2025 @ 12:36 pmNAFTA was a disaster, ultimately.
DRJ (003075) — 4/6/2025 @ 12:53 pmKevin M (a9545f) — 4/6/2025 @ 12:23 pm
Twitter!
You’ve got the same firing with some rehiring after the squeals get too loud,
Or is this even worse?
Sammy Finkelman (3825f4) — 4/6/2025 @ 12:54 pmAs Perot predicted.
DRJ (003075) — 4/6/2025 @ 12:54 pmReshoring could work – for things that are just on the margin, and where manufacturing capacity still exists
Sammy Finkelman (3825f4) — 4/6/2025 @ 12:55 pmI think it was Larry Summers who said on ABC’s “This Week” that the economic effect of these tariffs (so far) is like a doubling of oil prices.
That doesn’t sound so bad. Oil prices quadrupled between 1971 and 1973 and the only effect was inflation.
Sammy Finkelman (3825f4) — 4/6/2025 @ 12:57 pmPer Summers I think:
The two drop in stock market prices was among the top four biggest percentage drop in stock prices (since they’ve been measuring things that way?)
The four were:
1987 – which led to nothing. It was accelerated by programmed trading.’
2008 – where Ben Bernanke and TARP possibly prevented a depression,
2020 – Harm from recession prevented by legislation that included massive spending in direct payments.
2025 – President Trump wants the Fed to lower interest rates to compensate.
Jerome Powell doesn’t seem inclined to do so.
He’s got his own theory he’s stubbornly sticking to, too.
Sammy Finkelman (3825f4) — 4/6/2025 @ 1:08 pmI’ve got personal examples.
First time, the parent company (household name manufacturer) decided to close our satellite office and lay-off everyone there, including me. They arrived in the morning, no warning or advance notice or email, and locked the door so we couldn’t get in. (Trouble is, some of us already were in, and the lease on the office wasn’t theirs, but that’s another story.)
Second time, next company called an early morning mandatory meeting on site. No details. They got us all in the room and layed everyone off. Excorted out. (Another satellite office. I’ve learned to avoid satellite offices.)
After that, I saw colleagues layed off at another large household name SV private company. No warning. Escorted out immediately. Someone else got the task of getting their things from the desk. It was a regular occurrence.
Enough examples for you? I really don’t have much patience for those thinking federal workers need to be shielded from the real world. Looks like the federal workers at least got advance notice by email.
lloyd (dd0fbe) — 4/6/2025 @ 1:32 pmAnd, the lack of advance notice didn’t bother me. It’s understandable. If folks know in advance, some will take advantage of their access to download intellectual property. It does happen.
lloyd (dd0fbe) — 4/6/2025 @ 1:41 pmYou can’t have everything.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/6/2025 @ 2:21 pmFor some reason, I don’t think this is the boast he thinks it is.
In the 1950’s, we already knew we didn’t want this kind of new factory, we wanted to be the leaders of complex product manufacturing, then focusing on services and technology.
Being a software guy, one of the hilarious things is that these stupid tariffs do is shine a bright light on these guys not having a clue about the largest sector of the US, services. It doesn’t require shipping pallets hither and yon, a designer can live anywhere, but the US has lead the planet in this space. What I see on a daily basis, is that our customers in the non-tech space have shut down new activities, manufacturing, IT, Consulting, BFSI, across all industries, investment spending has fundamentally shut down over the last 2 months. Companies looking to expand into the US have shut down, and US companies trying to find alternative supply chains look at options and there are none. Zero options.
Lutnick’s example requires 3-10 years to build the factory to make screws, the lowest profit margin item, only possible in the most automated factory possible. Then, you’ve got to find his army of people to screw in the fasteners into the iphone. An iPhone that costs $4k at that point.
And then there’s coffee…
Instead of setting fire to $6T, maybe focusing on using incentives to fund the 20 year process to maybe build the US strategic manufacturing reserve.
Nope, fires are pretty.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 4/6/2025 @ 2:23 pmIn Lutnick’s world, the US can compete on these low value items after minimum wages are lowered to be the equivalent of Foxconn’s Chinese slave labor.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 4/6/2025 @ 2:29 pmSports news:
Alex Ovechkin breaks Wayne Gretzky’s NHL all-time career goals record
UConn’s women’s Huskies win their twelfth national championship, crushing South Carolina’s Gamecocks 82-59.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/6/2025 @ 2:34 pmResolute:
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/6/2025 @ 2:48 pmRussian players have been banned from EUFA soccer. I don’t understand why the NHL didn’t do the same and show they had some balls.
lloyd (6d9f5e) — 4/6/2025 @ 2:49 pmGiven their track record, I don’t think the Democrats will be nominating a woman as a presidential nominee anytime soon; nor anyone from the far left of the party. The left had their chance in 2024 and blew it.
You’re really going out on a limb predicting that Democrats will control the Senate after 2028; I don’t see the Republicans losing control in 2026.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/6/2025 @ 2:56 pmWashington state has high gasoline taxes — and a carbon dioxide tax.
Three term governor Jay Inslee seemed genuinely surprised by how much those taxes raised gasoline prices in this state.
(It may be mean of me, but I have sometimes thought that Inslee peaked as a high school athlete.)
Jim Miller (4a796b) — 4/6/2025 @ 3:00 pm2008 – where Ben Bernanke and TARP possibly prevented a depression,
Yeah, where they attempted to control the second derivative of mortgage defaults instead of controlling mortgage defaults. They should have bailed out homeowners by paying down mortgages directly (stabilizing banks that had reasonable risk) instead of buying up credit default swap instruments and other interbank bets.
As it turned out, they covered for the crazy lending monkeys instead of homeowners that suddenly found themselves upside down.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/6/2025 @ 3:03 pmI’ve learned to avoid satellite offices.
Sprawl is a leading indicator of later layoffs. The only time I’ve ever worked for a remote office of a major company was working at the L.A. office of Atari Research. The day came when Atari coughed its cookies after management screwed it all up in ’84.
They came and laid half the office off. Sadly, not me — I was being “protected.” Which I didn’t want — I had a job lined up with a consulting firm, but they had a “no poaching” provision in their contract with Atari. So, I pounded on a table and demanded to be laid off so the other guys could hire me. And was.
Since then I strived to work for smaller firms and startup. That way you can expect to be laid off.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/6/2025 @ 3:10 pmThe left had their chance in 2024 and blew it.
Harris wasn’t anywhere near the AOC left. Walz may have been.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/6/2025 @ 3:11 pmUConn’s women’s Huskies win their twelfth national championship
Make me care.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/6/2025 @ 3:12 pm> The left had their chance in 2024 and blew it.
Kamala isn’t really of the left; she’s a centrist authoritarian who cosplays being a leftist.
In SF politics, both she and Newsom are generally despised by the actual left.
aphrael (eac18a) — 4/6/2025 @ 3:13 pm@lloyd@223 They banned the national teams and clubs. The NHL doesn’t have any Russian teams or clubs. Why would the NHL ban Russian players? They play on US and Canadian teams. They live in the US and Canada, they are paid in the US and Canada. They spend their money in the US and Canada. Many of them are married to Americans or Canadians. It isn’t like they have any influence over Putin.
(If I were them, I’d be a bit leery about going to Russia this summer, though)
Nic (120c94) — 4/6/2025 @ 3:14 pm> And then there’s coffee…
Coffee, which grows in basically only two places in the US (Hawaii and Puerto Rico), and which it is impossible for the US to produce enough of to meet domestic demand.
A tariff on coffee helps *nobody*.
aphrael (eac18a) — 4/6/2025 @ 3:15 pmDoes Lutnick have any idea the size of electronic parts these days? An 0201 package surface-mount resistor or capacitor is 6/10 of a millimeter on its longest side (0.024 inch). And there are thousands of them on a circuit card. These things are not soldered by hand, even in China.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/6/2025 @ 3:22 pmCoffee, which grows in basically only two places in the US (Hawaii and Puerto Rico), and which it is impossible for the US to produce enough of to meet domestic demand.
This is why we will have to conquer Central America.
Also, hitting their producers with tariffs is guaranteed to send swarms of their now-poorer citizens to out borders.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/6/2025 @ 3:23 pmIn SF politics, both she and Newsom are generally despised by the actual left.
Th actual Left that would put MAGA up against the wall in a minute if they could.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/6/2025 @ 3:25 pmLayoffs have always been cold. The latest innovation is just to turn off the badge and email people. Younger workers kind of expected to be that way. Older workers, miss the courtesy of being told to their face that their services are no longer require required.
Time (cde4c4) — 4/6/2025 @ 3:25 pmThese days the Canadians would rather have a Russian beat Gretzky’s record than an American.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/6/2025 @ 3:26 pmFiring people isn’t like this.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/6/2025 @ 3:35 pmWho cares, as long as the Republicans that defeat MAGAts are more sane and less Nazi-curious, it’s a win for America and the world.
None of this should have been surprising, stupid Hitler is replaying 1933, and he’s been telling people this for years. Why are people surprised that the most important part of his name is “stupid” and all the decisions and ideas flow directly from the “stupid” part. The Hitler part only because he was so famous, copying him will make out moron famous too.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 4/6/2025 @ 3:37 pmAs of now, I don’t see that happening either, at least during the 2026 midterms.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/6/2025 @ 3:40 pmDOGE isn’t even following federal rules for firing people, a WARN notice is supposed to be filed with each local jurisdiction based on impact. But, you just have to look at state public WARN notices for private industry to see that since many gov functions are already providing the services, and every Fed contract may create one’s of new federal employees, hundreds or thousands of private sector workers, those WARN notices are growing exponentially.
275k new notices have been sent out in the last month, and those will be hitting in 60 days.
I spent most of the last couple of days reviewing our bankers and VC/PE’s. The ones we have been getting economic outlooks from are talking about interest rates rising 50% as a probable outcome, unemployment topping 7%, and the range is worse, 6% is the minimum, 11% max, and total employment in the US shrinking for first time in modern history. Not just the temporary Covid response, but generally just trimming the workforce by more than 10M as the baseline, and reaching parity to 2024 by 2030, but a greater than 30% chance that it just never recovers.
The worst case scenario is the US just becomes Russia, completely isolated, bypassed in global trade.
This administration is ensuring that the US will become a more representative global player, no outsized military spending as we can’t afford it, no oversized economic footprint, as just one of the richest countries, but isolated in our region, and globally, America is no longer special, companies and countries will not look at our market as the most valuable in the world. We’ll just be the UK after WW2, a shadow of our former selves.
But, 77M out of 330M chose this, and as stupid as it is, this was some of America’s choice, and the planet is going to suffer.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 4/6/2025 @ 3:57 pmFutures markets open, stock indexes down 4-5% before trading Monday.
https://finance.yahoo.com/markets/commodities/
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/6/2025 @ 4:00 pmNo one thought you could ruin the global economy in a week, but he did. So, the House Republicans might flip on him quicker than I thought possible. Another week like last, and impeachment might look pretty good to a lot of people.
A weirdo president Johnson would be an improvement.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 4/6/2025 @ 4:01 pmIf that plays out, then burn another $2T.
A recession is guaranteed at this point, do these tariffs do the same as Smoot-Hawley (looks pretty likely), and create a global depression?
Hey, all it took last time was a world war to dig us out. I wonder which side we’ll be on?
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 4/6/2025 @ 4:04 pm(It may be mean of me, but I have sometimes thought that Inslee peaked as a high school athlete.)
Jim Miller (4a796b) — 4/6/2025 @ 3:00 pm
Jim, you’ve got a long way to go before you approach “mean” territory.
norcal (cdf133) — 4/6/2025 @ 4:08 pmThis is hilarious, not only are they making up a Buffet quote, even if true, stupid Hitler is tanking the global economy, raising costs astronomically, all in an effort for a few basis point changes in just the US Fed rates.
Just like a real estate guy to think that the entire economy only rests on loan rates. Monetary and economic policy is so vastly out of these people’s mental faculties, and most of their fans are also too stupid to know the impact.
They are too dumb to understand first order ramifications, much less 12 steps up/down the cascade of events.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 4/6/2025 @ 4:10 pm1) Speaker Johnson would never let the House to consider impeachment, and he controls the agenda.
2) Impeaching Donald Trump is like water off a duck’s back. If there is no prospect of conviction (and there isn’t), why pursue it? Trump has beaten two attempts to do so, why make it a third?
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/6/2025 @ 4:12 pmThe latest innovation is just to turn off the badge and email people.
If the bosses can’t face the people they’re letting go, they shouldn’t be bosses. It’s chickens*it.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/6/2025 @ 4:18 pmAs of now, I don’t see that happening either, at least during the 2026 midterms.
Maybe not, but these tariffs are an existential threat to American business, corporate and mainstreet. I expect them to fight. Unions will like it as long as there are no layoffs, but that is really the pipe dream.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/6/2025 @ 4:21 pmI love it when idiotic X memes are followed by comments like “It really makes you think, doesn’t it?”
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/6/2025 @ 4:25 pmFIFY:
The domestic auto, steel, aluminum, etc. industries I dare say feel differently.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/6/2025 @ 4:26 pmSpeaker Johnson would never let the House to consider impeachment, and he controls the agenda.
A petition with the signatures of a majority of the House members can bring any matter to the floor.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/6/2025 @ 4:28 pmTrump said his goal for America to enter a “golden age” of American wealth but, like with most things, he doesn’t have an actual plan because he’s an Underpants Gnome president…
1. Tariffs!
Paul Montagu (b69d31) — 4/6/2025 @ 4:33 pm2. ???
3. Golden age!
The domestic auto, steel, aluminum, etc. industries I dare say feel differently.
Steel and aluminum, perhaps, assuming they don’t import ore. The auto industry is spread throughout North America and can’t fix that soon.
But those are old industries. The money is elsewhere now. Like in those stocks that are down a lot. Boeing, Nvidia, Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Even the financials are down a lot.
GM’s market cap is $43 billion. US Steel is a mere 9 billion — that’s Walking Dead territory.
Meanwhile Apple, Nvidia, Microsoft, Google and Amazon average about $2 trillion each.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/6/2025 @ 4:36 pm@253:
We’ll have the GDP of McKinley’s America soon.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/6/2025 @ 4:38 pmNic @231: “They banned the national teams and clubs. The NHL doesn’t have any Russian teams or clubs. Why would the NHL ban Russian players?”
You sure? According to google:
This also matches my observation, as a European football follower. There are no Russian players in the English Premier League. Nor Russian owners. There used to be. I don’t know of any in the other leagues either. So it’s not just clubs and teams.
The NHL could’ve and should’ve followed this example, but didn’t. I don’t care whether they do or don’t have influence on Putin. They make millions of dollars in the NHL and are Russian citizens. If they want to denounce the war and take steps to become a U.S. or Canadian citizen, then fine. Nothing is stopping them. Until then, the millions go to someone else.
lloyd (8882e6) — 4/6/2025 @ 4:42 pmI’ll repeat: President DeSantis sounds pretty good right now. Too bad he failed your purity tests.
lloyd (8882e6) — 4/6/2025 @ 4:47 pmDoes the Administration even care about the consequences of what happens?
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/6/2025 @ 4:50 pmDeSantis bailed before the New Hampshire primary and then endorsed Trump, but it was over months before that. The folks to blame are the MAGAs, for supporting this piece of sh-t human being.
Paul Montagu (b69d31) — 4/6/2025 @ 4:51 pmToo bad he quit after the primary.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/6/2025 @ 4:51 pmToo bad he quit after the primary.
Too bad he didn’t differentiate himself from Trump. They were never going to go for fake Trump.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/6/2025 @ 4:54 pmExactly. Why drink a Pepsi when you could have a Coke?
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/6/2025 @ 4:58 pmThis is an indicator that the Sunday shows didn’t go well for Cult Orange Jesus, with Dow futures plunging by over 1,500.
The irony is that Trump has complained for years that our trading partners are cheating us, but his fraud tariff chart is One Big Fat Cheat, and it’s nothing short of Trump screwing over every nation but Russia, Belarus and North Korea.
Paul Montagu (b69d31) — 4/6/2025 @ 4:59 pmSwitzerland doesn’t even charge tariffs on American imports, yet Trump’s scam is assessing a 31% tariff on Toblerone, etc.
LOL And if he wouldn’t have quit, y’all wouldn’t have voted for him. I would.
lloyd (8882e6) — 4/6/2025 @ 5:05 pmLloyd, you still need to pick a lane. Did Desantis lose because he failed some purity test or because Trump was indicted? Which was it?
Also, I think the math is pretty clear that you’re wrong either way. Desantis plus all the never trump votes still lose the primary to Trump.
Face it. The GOP primary voters wanted Trump.
Time (ddbc36) — 4/6/2025 @ 5:06 pmThis is 78-year old in obvious mental decline…
Apparently, he thinks that our trade deficits are subsidies to other countries. It’s mentally deranged.
Paul Montagu (b69d31) — 4/6/2025 @ 5:07 pmComplete and utter bullshyte.
Paul Montagu (b69d31) — 4/6/2025 @ 5:07 pm1. Tariffs!
2. ???
3. Golden age!
1. Donnie breaks it.
nk (6e3dc0) — 4/6/2025 @ 5:31 pm2. Mommy fixes it or daddy buys a new one.
3. Yay! It’s newer and better. Thanks, Donnie!
You brought up this same false alternative in the other thread and I answered it there. So, no I don’t need to pick a lane.
lloyd (8882e6) — 4/6/2025 @ 5:37 pmUnknowable; and I said about something else here, it’s all water under the bridge.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/6/2025 @ 5:45 pmIt’s also unknowable that DeSantis would have beaten Trump (or Haley, or Christie, or any other of the munchkins) if Trump hadn’t been indicted.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/6/2025 @ 5:49 pmLOL And if he wouldn’t have quit, y’all wouldn’t have voted for him. I would.
I probably would have, barring some total nonsense. Like a trade war with Canada or being Puta’s friend.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/6/2025 @ 5:49 pmI would have voted for Haley in the primary though. But really, unless Trump died Biden was going to make sure he ran against Trump.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/6/2025 @ 5:51 pmApparently, he thinks that our trade deficits are subsidies to other countries. It’s mentally deranged.
He thinks that economics is a zero sum game. Economics 0.5
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/6/2025 @ 5:52 pm“In their recruiting process, they made sure it would only be people who were totally Trumpers, because in the first administration, there was a lot of trouble with people quitting, writing bad books, things like that,” said Wilbur Ross, who served as commerce secretary during Trump’s first term. “The people now have been confirmed as true Trumpers.”
Self-seeking second-raters, burnouts, and outright losers, still yearning but with nowhere else they can seek.
nk (fd4435) — 4/6/2025 @ 5:56 pmUnintended Consequences:
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/6/2025 @ 6:01 pmI’m shocked! 😉
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/6/2025 @ 6:03 pmAre dermal fillers, lip plumpers, and silicone implants imported?
nk (fd4435) — 4/6/2025 @ 6:03 pmMy state primary last year was March 12th. DeSantis was long gone and Nikki withdrew on March 6th. I voted for Nikki because she was closest to last challenger standing, but Trump won with 76% and Nikki came in 2nd at 19%.
This NeverTrumper would’ve voted for the candidate who had the best chance of beating Trump, but I never had that chance. Trump had 50% or more support in the polls going back to Aug-Sep 2023. It was over long before the Iowa caucuses, and the reason it was over is because of the MAGAs who supported him. Occam’s Razor.
Paul Montagu (b69d31) — 4/6/2025 @ 6:09 pmAsian markets have plummeted:
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/6/2025 @ 6:12 pmThe Nikkei dropped 9.8% before hitting a “circuit breaker” that halted trading.
I expect stickers will soon be made, akin to the Biden stickers we saw at gas pumps.
Paul Montagu (b69d31) — 4/6/2025 @ 6:28 pmI have a solution for the mess Trump has created:
REBATE CHECKS!
norcal (cdf133) — 4/6/2025 @ 6:43 pmRIP actor Jay North (73); who played Dennis the Menace.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/6/2025 @ 6:50 pmThis story reads like an espionage novel.
Putin doesn’t want peace.
Paul Montagu (b69d31) — 4/6/2025 @ 6:51 pmI doubt the Kash FBI will put much effort in it because it implicates Trump’s good buddy, the Russian terrorist leader.
@lloyd@256 As far as I can tell, there are still Russian players on non-Russian premier league teams. The quote you gave seems to be from google’s AI explanation in response to your search. If you put it in quotes and google search it, it doesn’t exist, but something similar comes up in AI. I think that maybe the AI meant that no new players can be signed to Russian teams. Man U appears to have a Russian player in it’s system, even.
Nic (120c94) — 4/6/2025 @ 7:34 pm@150 see my post 130 it answers your “IF”.
asset (df1341) — 4/6/2025 @ 7:36 pmTrump on msdnc says he wants to send americans he doesn’t like to el salvador prisons. (DU)
asset (df1341) — 4/6/2025 @ 7:38 pm@285 You must be referring to Amir Ibragimov, who was born in Russia but has only represented England in international competition. He has never played for ManU at the senior level.
“As far as I can tell, there are still Russian players on non-Russian premier league teams.”
Nic, you have yet to name one.
lloyd (8882e6) — 4/6/2025 @ 7:48 pmRegarding Trump’s belittling our manufacturing base, we’re still a manufacturing powerhouse, behind only China, but we’re the clear frontrunner in manufacturing per worker.
Paul Montagu (b69d31) — 4/6/2025 @ 7:57 pm@lloyd@289 Here’s a list of the Russian players currently playing abroad.
Nic (120c94) — 4/6/2025 @ 8:11 pm> a greater than 30% chance that it just never recovers.
That’s my bet. We’ve just decided to follow the UK into pointless economic suicide.
aphrael (eac18a) — 4/6/2025 @ 8:29 pm> Also, hitting their producers with tariffs is guaranteed to send swarms of their now-poorer citizens to out borders.
Yes, just like discontinuing financial support for attempts at suppressing disease overseas greatly increases the risk that people bring those diseases here.
aphrael (eac18a) — 4/6/2025 @ 8:31 pm> Maybe not, but these tariffs are an existential threat to American business, corporate and mainstreet. I expect them to fight
If they fight, then the federal government will retaliate against them in a way that has never been seen in this country, and the fear of that will cow them into submission.
The way Trump has been treating universities and law firms is a signal for how he’ll treat other businesses that don’t comply with his agenda; anyone in the executive who doesn’t go along will be fired; and the legislature will do nothing.
Welcome to the new world, Kevin.
Aren’t you glad we didn’t elect Kamala?
aphrael (eac18a) — 4/6/2025 @ 8:40 pmAll this time the key to prosperity (tariffs!) was just sitting there, and we didn’t take advantage of it. Trump is such a genius for making this discovery.
Oh…wait. We tried this before. Two guys named Smoot and Hawley got tariffs passed in the 1930s. All the tariffs did was exacerbate the Great Depression.
The only thing we learn from studying history is that we never learn anything from studying history.
norcal (cdf133) — 4/6/2025 @ 8:53 pmSeems like a fair take to me…
Paul Montagu (b69d31) — 4/6/2025 @ 9:08 pm> Trump’s policies are literally making the same Americans poorer on purpose, because he’s a bigger idiot.
Because he believes that blowing up the utterly rotten system we have now that is terrible for America is a necessary precondition to building a better world which will be better for us.
This is *deliberate*. This *is the goal*.
aphrael (eac18a) — 4/6/2025 @ 9:55 pm@294 As a anti-corporate establishment lefty I am happy harris and the corporate democrats lost. Trump is clearing out the dead wood in the democrat party like latest poll AOC 55% schumer 36% for senate primary. Japanese saying cut flesh to cut meat. When trump gets thru destroying the country the democrat party will not tolerate corporate donor class stooges running the democrat party. As von blucher said at the battle of waterloo I will shoot the first man who shows mercy! Again I feel sorry for you conservatives no republican party left wandering in the wilderness hoping for a miracle that won’t come.
asset (df1341) — 4/6/2025 @ 9:57 pm> When trump gets thru destroying the country the democrat party will not tolerate corporate donor class stooges running the democrat party.
So you’re happy to see the country destroyed as long as the people you don’t like are punished?
aphrael (eac18a) — 4/6/2025 @ 11:32 pm@299 We on the left are opportunists we take what is given to us. We don’t run the country the democrat donor class corporate stooges and then trumpsters (along with fearful republican politicians) are running the country into the ground we on the left don’t have a say yet. My enemy the democrat establishment is being discredited with the party base and I am happy about that. This is why I have a hard time hating trump as he is destroying my and the left’s enemies, unfortunately along with every thing else. I can do nothing about it ;but look for opportunities to help my side. My happiness means nothing as I watch the meteor fall to earth.
asset (df1341) — 4/7/2025 @ 3:12 amYeah, my “left” took what it could too.
When I had my pants tailored, I could tell my tailor to accommodate it.
Off the rack, it’s just trying them on in the fitting room.
nk (d07f21) — 4/7/2025 @ 5:19 amComrades, Trump is doing what the national crime syndicate which we call Congress wants done but does not have the guts to do itself because then the people might kick them off the gravy train and they could not become multimillionaires after only four years in office (the way Marjorie Taylor-Greene has).
He is imposing a National Sales Tax on everything with imported content. On some items as high as 54%.
China will not be paying it. American consumers will be paying it.
He is calling it tariffs because
1) He does not have the taxing power (Congress has the taxing power but not the guts to use); but he does have the tariff power which Congress which Congress has granted him; and
2) By painting it as “us versus them” he can get his egg-suckers to cheer it on as The Great Patriotic Trade War instead of seeing it for what it really is, the government’s hand in their wallet by way of the Department of Commerce instead of the IRS.
Klar, Genossen?
nk (d07f21) — 4/7/2025 @ 6:02 am@239
Instead whining and being petulant, maybe you should work harder to moderate your party so that Democrats can be a larger coalition again to win future elections.
whembly (b7cc46) — 4/7/2025 @ 7:11 am@265
Not to defend Lloyd, he doesn’t need it…
But you guys are trying to rewrite history.
Yes, he “officially” jumped into the primary too late, in hindsight, but EVERYONE knew he was going to run and that he could be a formiable candidate.
Even then, the nominal GOP voters to disliked DeSantis so much, they called in a “mini-Me Trump”. I remember, on this very board, you guy pretty much said after DeSantis’ fight with Disney over the “don’t say gay bill”, he was persona non grata to you guys. (which, DeSantis stood tall and won every step of the way against Disney). Guess what, Disney parks are still there…and still making bajillions in revenue for Disney corporate.
Yes, the primary voters are to blame for nominating Trump, and part of it was the outrage against the lawfare tactics employed by Democrats.
But not ENOUGH blame is assigned to the GOP primary leaderships, and the candidates. They took a YUGE gamble to run it the same way in 2015 and no leadership stood up and thought “hmmm, Trump isn’t going away, maybe we should coalesce behind a NOT-TRUMP candidate to give that candidate a chance against Trump, instead of a fractured field, ala 2015”.
But, no. No one wanted to do that because of various selfish reasons, and the GOP took a huge gamble in the primary, and Trump easily won.
whembly (b7cc46) — 4/7/2025 @ 7:25 am@294
Yup.
whembly (b7cc46) — 4/7/2025 @ 7:28 amasset (in general):
I believe AOC is smart enough to betray you and pretty enough to make you like it. Which is good thing, because your comments have a very Weimar Republic Communist ring…
whembly (#303)
After Trump nukes everyone’s 401(k) and then generates a bushel load of inflation, I don’t think the discussion amongst the Democrats will be pronouns. Just sayin’. I also think the next candidate won’t be over 80 and will be selected through a vigorous primary.
And frankly, regarding your diss to the Col, the Republic will be far more sane once MAGAs learn a little shame and realize that — just as Trump meant it about retribution and racism — he meant it about tariffs and stickin it to government workers and contractors. Klink has a role, partly because MAGA and Maga like yourself take a long while to notice self-inflicted pain and a longer time to do anything about it.
Appalled (398188) — 4/7/2025 @ 7:30 amwhembly
And I will use your #305 as a prime example as I said in 306. The end result of the anarchy and destruction is an AOC republic (provided we don’t end up with another January 6)
Appalled (398188) — 4/7/2025 @ 7:35 amTrue, regarding Trump’s proposed 90-day on all countries but China…
“I make stupid decision.”
Paul Montagu (b69d31) — 4/7/2025 @ 8:01 am“Something really bad happens.”
“I convince my followers the problem is magically solved.”
“I reverse my stupid decision.”
…90-day pause…
Paul Montagu (b69d31) — 4/7/2025 @ 8:02 amPutin loves what Trump is doing to the world’s economy.
(There are a few signs that the Loser is beginning to recognize that Putin is no longer even willing to pretend that he respects Trump. But I doubt that the Loser will draw the obvious conclusions.)
Jim Miller (6c7d1a) — 4/7/2025 @ 8:02 amAnd here is something interesting:
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/04/opinion/elon-musk-doge-technocracy.html?unlocked_article_code=1.9E4.1dWA.w4ls4lRpjxuU&smid=url-share
Musk gets his approach from something called Technocracy — one of those crank ideas from the 30s, and something his grandfather promoted in Canada before he moved off to enjoy the fruits of apartheid in South Africa.
Appalled (398188) — 4/7/2025 @ 8:17 am@306
Yeah, the GOP is probably going to bet walloped in the midterms, but the 2028 election is a lifetime from now.
I’m not convinced the populism of “MAGA” will survive once Trump is out of office…and hopefully, GOP getting spanked in midterm will force the GOP party to adjust accordingly.
It’s just that I’m not seeing ANY moderation/adjustment from the Democrats. That’s why I’m admonishing klink. If you don’t like what you see from the GOP party, then being active in YOUR party to encourage a larger voting coalition so that you party can win the next election.
In short: Stop being held hostage by the extremes in your party, and do the hard work to effectuate change.
*I’m* doing the same sort of thing in my bubble. I’m actually writing letters to campaigns and attending townhall. I’ve donate my time to my local GOP party when they need manpower. I’m not rich enough to donate money, but I can go knock on doors and provide a “hot seat” for whatever. In the meantime, I’m advocating for candidates that can win in our elections.
whembly (b7cc46) — 4/7/2025 @ 8:40 amIt’s not just the stupidity of his tariff scam and such, it’s the malevolence that goes with.
This guy didn’t put his hand on the Bible but did swear to defend and uphold the Constitution, in this case the 8th Amendment. It’s anti-American and anti-patriotic, to put it mildly.
Paul Montagu (b69d31) — 4/7/2025 @ 8:56 amWhat “leaderships”? The RNC? Since primaries are conducted by individual state parties, there is no mechanism for the GOP leadership (such as it is) to intervene and choose who can or can’t run; national parties haven’t had that power for over 50 years. Today, anyone can call themselves a “Republican” and run in a Republican primary. Vetting is done by the voters.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/7/2025 @ 9:04 am@314
The collective candidates.
The state GOP party leaders.
Them folks.
whembly (b7cc46) — 4/7/2025 @ 9:06 amI’m not sure about Klink’s politics, beyond anti-Trump. He sounds like disillusioned GOP to me, though.
Speaking for myself, I feel I am without a party because I am old school 80s Reaganite, who does believe in smaller and more locally oriented government and stuff like the separation of powers and am deeply suspicious of revolutionaries of the Right and Left. Unlike most of the folks who I was friends with back in my college days, I tended to believe that the concerns of the social issues right were not the concern of the government. I loathed Pat Buchanan, so I come by my loathing of his successor naturally.
Short answer. Don’t call me a Democrat or a Liberal. I’m not. Also, don’t expect I can do anything about Democrats or Liberals. We don’t speak the same language, and they have interest in learning mine.
Appalled (398188) — 4/7/2025 @ 9:07 am@316
I don’t know if you voted at all in this last election.
But some here, including our host, are former GOP voters who voted for Harris (and Biden in 2020).
IF you’re willing to vote for Democrats, then be a Democrat. All I ask, is that you do you damndest to moderate the party, just as I’m trying to ostracize the crazies from the Right.
whembly (b7cc46) — 4/7/2025 @ 9:11 amI don’t know what you expected of either the other candidates or the state party chairs to do. All of the non-Trump candidates obviously thought they were the best one to be President, and several dropped out before the primary season started. The state party chairs were for the most part Trump supporters; and anyway they had no authority to police who runs in the primaries.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/7/2025 @ 9:21 amIn the run up to the primaries, Trump was between +40 and +50 over the non-Trump candidates, so there was no room for any candidate among the munchkins to break out. With the exception of Christie and Hutchinson, they were all running as Trump-lite.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/7/2025 @ 9:47 amAn eagerness to use the power of the state to punish political speech you dislike isn’t a trait I want in the president. But YMMV.
I said at the time I’d support him over Trump and doubted I’d feel like I needed to vote against him in the general….but I never got the chance. Big wuss dropped out before my state’s primary.
You and Lloyd want to be mad at everyone but him for losing in the primary. Fact is he got BADLY beaten in the races he was in and didn’t make much of a fight of it…Stop blaming everyone that never got a chance to really make that choice and start blaming him for losing so badly to Trump.
Time (ddbc36) — 4/7/2025 @ 9:48 amSaid another way….Desantis didn’t loose because ‘never Trump’ didn’t like him. He lost because most GOP primary voters loved Trump and really wanted him as the candidate.
Time (ddbc36) — 4/7/2025 @ 9:49 am285, “The Base” is a translation of ‘al Qaeda.”
It’s al Qaeda for Christians.
Sammy Finkelman (eb9b99) — 4/7/2025 @ 10:19 amhttps://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/apr/07/eu-offered-zero-for-zero-deal-to-us-weeks-before-tariff-announcement
Apparently, the You offered to remove their tariffs on industrial goods if the US likewise. Looks like Trump was not interested in that.
Time (6852a3) — 4/7/2025 @ 10:26 amDOA:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/7/2025 @ 10:42 am@321 Said another way….Desantis didn’t loose because ‘never Trump’ didn’t like him. He lost because most GOP primary voters loved Trump and really wanted him as the candidate.
Time (ddbc36) — 4/7/2025 @ 9:49 am
whembly (b7cc46) — 4/7/2025 @ 11:07 amI firmly believe DeSantis lost because he jumped into the race way too late. Had he jumped in shortly after Trump did, I think things could be different.
Dead Cat Bounce.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/7/2025 @ 11:09 am“Apparently, the You offered to remove their tariffs on industrial goods if the US likewise. Looks like Trump was not interested in that.”
Trump is fixated on balance of trade. Equalizing tariffs won’t solve* that.
*It’s not a problem that needs a solution but good luck convincing Trump that.
Davethulhu (14e9e4) — 4/7/2025 @ 11:19 amApparently, he thinks that our trade deficits are subsidies to other countries. It’s mentally deranged.
It’s worse than that.
If we sell $1 billion to A, and A sells $2 billion to us, there is a $1 billion trade deficit. That does not mean A owes us $1 billion. It actually means A is holding $1 billion in markers for future goods from us. They may decide to buy $1 billion of stuff from B, in which case B is holding the markers.
If anyone owes anything, it’s us that owes $1 billion in goods or services, should anyone want them.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/7/2025 @ 11:22 amREBATE CHECKS!
Printed in China.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/7/2025 @ 11:24 am#324 (Rip)
Hopelessness is not a plan.
If anything is to be salvaged on tariffs, it’s going to take MAGA Republicans to decide to act and businesses to file suit.
Trump’s ability to decree tariffs is based on an extreme reading of a law never before believed to allow tariffs. A lawsuit could end all this. But businesses are unlikely to make themselves targets for retribution unless they can get some support.
#317
If there is any hope of things changing before 2027, the courts have to take action and the Republicans have to back action. Democrats can be combative and wage smart campaigns and not do 2019 type silliness. But right now, that hearts that must change are Republican.
Appalled (398188) — 4/7/2025 @ 11:27 amIf they fight, then the federal government will retaliate against them in a way that has never been seen in this country, and the fear of that will cow them into submission.
Bullies go after the few who stand up, sure. But when a lot of people stand up, they don’t. There are some big law firms that have bent, but what we are seeing is a raft of smaller firms banding together. Trump can play whack-a-mole all he wants but the cases will come to court, with damages. It’s hard to see how Trump wins.
And once the bully is knocked down, a lot of kicking follows.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/7/2025 @ 11:28 amOh…wait. We tried this before. Two guys named Smoot and Hawley got tariffs passed in the 1930s. All the tariffs did was exacerbate the Great Depression.
And when Congress raised a fuss, attempting to overturn Hoover’s use of the bill, Hoover vetoed it and they could not override. And Hoover was actually a money guy, unlike Trump who just was given a lot of money and did nothing with it.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/7/2025 @ 11:31 amAren’t you glad we didn’t elect Kamala?
Don’t you wish both parties had nominated better candidates?
Don’t you wish that Romney had won in 2012 and saved us from Trump’s 3-peat?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/7/2025 @ 11:35 amI believe AOC is smart enough to betray you and pretty enough to make you like it
Galadriel with the One Ring.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/7/2025 @ 11:37 amMusk gets his approach from something called Technocracy
It’s so cute the way the NY Times can spot failed ideas on the Right, but cannot see those that it faithfully promotes.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/7/2025 @ 11:41 amI loathed Pat Buchanan, so I come by my loathing of his successor naturally.
Pat had 50 IQ points on Trump. That may have been his problem, though. Trump is far closer to his base.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/7/2025 @ 11:44 amBut businesses are unlikely to make themselves targets for retribution unless they can get some support.
Businesses that are already failing, or doomed to fail by these tariffs (e.g. a toy manufacturer that has heavy investments in Mexico) can sue with impunity. “Freedom’s just another name….”
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/7/2025 @ 11:47 amReaping what he sowed:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/7/2025 @ 11:50 am#335
It’s so cute the way the NY Times can spot failed ideas on the Right, but cannot see those that it faithfully promotes.
I could write that about Fox News…
Appalled (398188) — 4/7/2025 @ 11:55 amExcept this is exactly wrong. While we did tariff the poo out of our friends, and a few enemies, we specifically didn’t tariff Russia, the hermit kingdom, Iran.
For a problem that requires a scalpel, these guys can only use a hammer, but not a jeweler’s hammer, nope, a 10 ton press.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 4/7/2025 @ 12:00 pmNeedless to say, the Trump Administration is not amused:
And:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/7/2025 @ 12:09 pmThe only Republican candidate who would have defeated Donald Trump in the primaries would have been someone who successfully demolished an argument by Donald Trump and was widely perceived to have done so.
Sammy FInkelman (e4ef09) — 4/7/2025 @ 12:12 pmAnd had Trump’s financials and charisma.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/7/2025 @ 12:13 pmRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/7/2025 @ 12:09 pm
The level of the tariffs were higher than expected – more than was baked in – and they projecting retaliatory tariffs and tariffs that would not be lifted.
Today someone started a rumor that the White House was considering a 90-day pause on tariffs, so stock prices rebounded until the White House denied that CNBC. I don’t know how anyone could even consider ta plausible. What is possible is Trump reaching a 0-0 tariff rate with an increasing number of countries – but then he won’t have his tax windfall.
Prices gyrate as fund managers try to guess first what will happen.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2025/04/07/business/trump-tariffs-stock-market
Sammy FInkelman (e4ef09) — 4/7/2025 @ 12:23 pmMAGA wouldn’t have cared.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/7/2025 @ 12:24 pmTrump did tariff Iran (10%), which is incomprehensibly smaller than Israel (17%), but Belarus joins Putin and Kim at 0%.
It’s all a scam that screws almost every nation.
Paul Montagu (b69d31) — 4/7/2025 @ 12:40 pmThe New York Times reports that police are puzzled by people scratching swastikas on Teslas. This is usually done by neo-Nazis or Nazi sympathizers.
No, they are trying to rehabilitate Nazism, or hatred of Jews (and Trump, and with him Elon Musk, is linked with Jews in their minds.)
It’s coming from the far left. Nobody else advocates o practices this form of activism.
The number one issue of the Democratic Socialists of America is the war in Gaza, with he worst possible descriptions of what Israel did or does, and justification of anything Hamas does or did (unless they go into denial on some points)even though the accusations don’t fit the definition of what Israel is accused of.
And there’s no recognition that Israel did mot initiate this war or that Israel would not settle for anything unreasonable – just freeing all their prisoners (who have been held incommunicado with occasional hostage videos) and the surrender of power by Hamas in Gaza and the creation of a situation where Gaza would pose no more threat to Israel (such as rule by a coalition of Arab states – anyone that will disarm and deradicalize Gaza) And there is not a single state or entity that regards Hamas’ rule over Gaza as legitimate. I don’t think even Iran.
Sammy FInkelman (e4ef09) — 4/7/2025 @ 12:52 pmPaul Montagu (b69d31) — 4/7/2025 @ 12:40 pm
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu rushed to the United States and got a meeting with Trump offering 0% tariffs on all imports and export involving the United States by both countries.
That isn’t the only thing that Netanyahu came over to discuss. Once he is talking with Trump, he uses the opportunity to discuss everything.
The other things Netanyahu wanted to discuss are:
o The war in Gaza.
o Iran and what to do about it.
o Israel’s opposition to the possibility of Turkey setting up military bases in Syria. Israel is wary of Erdogan.
o The International Criminal Court (which has indicted Netanyahu on basically spurious charges
Sammy FInkelman (e4ef09) — 4/7/2025 @ 1:01 pmVietnam is also trying to get a 0-0 tariff agreement with the United States.
But…
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/04/07/peter-navarro-says-vietnams-0percent-tariff-offer-is-not-enough-its-the-non-tariff-cheating-that-matters.html
…which he can prove mathematically, just as he used math to “prove” that the 2020 election was stolen from Trump.
Navarro does have an issue – which he cant measure.
Sammy FInkelman (e4ef09) — 4/7/2025 @ 1:07 pmRip Murdock (75b245) — 4/7/2025 @ 12:24 pm
It depends a little on whether Trump had to backtrack. And the Republican primary electorate isn’t 100% MAGA.
Someone came up with an idea: The variant: Make America Merciful Again. (one person carried a sign at a protest that said that. Told over WNYC AM radio today)
Sammy FInkelman (e4ef09) — 4/7/2025 @ 1:12 pmRabbi Harry Maryles is probably not the only person who has noticed this: (from his log April 6)
It’s probably caused by people thinking about whether they should have or should have not voted for him.
Sammy FInkelman (e4ef09) — 4/7/2025 @ 1:18 pmRelated:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/7/2025 @ 1:19 pmSo far it is mainly ted Cruz and Elon Musk who have criticized Trump over tariffs.
Peter Navarro says he understands – Musk is engaged in international trade.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-adviser-navarro-dismisses-musk-car-assembler-after-tariff-comments-2025-04-07
Just what businesses or anything are the tariffs supposed to help??
Sammy FInkelman (e4ef09) — 4/7/2025 @ 1:25 pmDomestic manufacturing and re-shoring factories from overseas to the US.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/7/2025 @ 1:32 pmAnd had Trump’s financials and charisma.
Anyone who could have but Trump on the ropes would have had all the money they needed, and more.
I will leave it to others to discuss Trump’s “charisma” — to me it’s eau de Dumpster.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/7/2025 @ 1:33 pmMAGA wouldn’t have cared.
MAGA wouldn’t have noticed. Logic and coherence were not Trump’s main draw. He was peddling resentments and resentments need no facts.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/7/2025 @ 1:35 pmSammy FInkelman (e4ef09) — 4/7/2025 @ 12:52 pm
This is particularly bizarre.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/7/2025 @ 1:37 pmSpeaker Mike Johnson said Monday that the House will provide President Donald Trump with “space” to carry out his massive global tariff regime, even as some GOP lawmakers openly plead with Trump to negotiate off-ramps before the levies kick in on Wednesday.
He will block it right up to the point where he gets replaced. Which will happen once the GOP Congressfolk see their collapsing polls back home.
Johnson owes his job to Trump, but most of Congress does not.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/7/2025 @ 1:40 pmDomestic manufacturing and re-shoring factories from overseas to the US.
One is conditioned on their use of US-sourced parts (beleive it or not, manufacturers do not make their own ball bearings or batteries or plastic parts). Right now the betting against.
Re-shoring may be a goal, but it’s long-term if someone is expecting employment out of it and it’s prohibitively expensive for small-cap companies who off-shored because their competitors did.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/7/2025 @ 1:44 pmPeople running into trouble with “customer service” at Social Security:
https://www.newser.com/story/366801/amid-doge-cuts-utter-chaos-for-social-security.html
Sammy FInkelman (e4ef09) — 4/7/2025 @ 1:52 pmTrump getting rid of paper checks:
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/04/your-money/paper-checks-tax-refunds-social-security.html
If no bank account information is available, they’ll be mailed a debit card. Which is someone files a tax return giving the address of a vacant house that gets mail service, as happened with some new unfinished developments in Florida after 2008, permits fraud.
Sammy FInkelman (e4ef09) — 4/7/2025 @ 1:58 pmPeople running into trouble with “customer service” at Social Security
At some point, people need to use the website for simpler questions. Maybe they can ask their kids to do it for them if they are unable. Calling up SS to find out when their next check will come is a waste of everyone’s time.
Also, Medicare as nearly all health insurance companies expect routine inquiries to happen online. The Medicare site is particularly good, btw; much better that many private insurers.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/7/2025 @ 2:06 pmRussian soldiers are sometimes ordered to kill surrendering Ukrainian soldiers – and by now they should know that the evidence is captured by drones.
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/04/world/europe/russia-ukraine-pow-executions.html
It is not clear from this story whether it is 5%, 15% or even 50%
Sammy FInkelman (e4ef09) — 4/7/2025 @ 2:09 pmBut, she said, newly announced verification requirements for creating online Social Security accounts could mean more people may need government help to set up the payments.
This is a repetitive task that only requires vetted 3rd party assistance. It does not require an army of trained people in centers nationwide. Tasks like these should be outsourced throughout government (and local non-profits already do this for many things).
Not even non-profits — there are investment firms that provide free help for SS recipients in a variety of areas, hoping that you’ll move your savings there. We used one such to fill out my mom’s VA application for an Aid & Assistance pension, so that the examiner could just check his boxes.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/7/2025 @ 2:13 pmAlso will apply to checks paid to the federsl government:
Sammy FInkelman (e4ef09) — 4/7/2025 @ 2:15 pmby now they should know that the evidence is captured by drones
For the court on the 12th of Never.
Suggestion to Trump: Since you don’t believe in international norms or worry about consequences, invite Putin to a summit then arrest him for war crimes.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/7/2025 @ 2:15 pmThe executive order also requires that payments to the government — such as for income taxes and passport applications — must also be made electronically rather than by physical check.
I will send them a payment card, drawn on a Ukrainian bank.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/7/2025 @ 2:16 pmI read that a MySocialSecurity account will be needed to change bank accounts online – and that people under 18 cannot have such accounts, and with phone access eliminated, they will have to make appointments in person, although they can request appointments by phone.
Sammy FInkelman (e4ef09) — 4/7/2025 @ 2:19 pmThere must be some reason this is oot correct:
https://www.wsj.com/opinion/why-boasbergs-order-is-legally-invalid-law-politics-injunction-bonds-8bd0f495
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 4/7/2025 @ 2:39 pmhttps://www.reddit.com/r/Flipping/comments/1jqsscg/i_sell_used_collectable_stuff_on_ebay_from_the_eu/?rdt=39170
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 4/7/2025 @ 2:43 pmSammy,
Here is the other side of the injunction bond story:
https://www.commoncause.org/resources/explainer-trump-executive-order-seeking-to-suppress-lawsuits-with-the-blanket-enforcement-of-federal-rule-of-civil-procedure-rule-65-c/
There is ample precedent for courts refusing to enforce the requirement.
Appalled (fad425) — 4/7/2025 @ 3:12 pmI was speaking of his personal wealth. As far as his charisma goes, it was attractive enough to millions of Republicans.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/7/2025 @ 3:19 pmThat will be a long time in coming. If Johnson is replaced it will be by an acolyte; as there is no one in the current House leadership opposes the President. There is no chance for a House Republican who does oppose Trump to become Speaker. I dare say most of the Congressional Republicans owe their jobs to Trump, either by outright support or not backing a challenger.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/7/2025 @ 3:27 pmI’m sure Hamas considers all of that to be unreasonable. Hopefully Israel’s current operations in Gaza will lead to Hamas’s extinction.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/7/2025 @ 3:30 pmRegarding the USSC ruling that allows deportations to proceed, due process wins.
Paul Montagu (b69d31) — 4/7/2025 @ 5:26 pmThere is no chance for a House Republican who does oppose Trump to become Speaker.
No, but the act of protecting these tariffs will be fatal to Johnson and whoever replaces him will have to give on that to get the job.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/7/2025 @ 5:53 pmthat people under 18 cannot have such accounts, and with phone access eliminated, they will have to make appointments in person, although they can request appointments by phone.
They can also create a Login.gov account and use that with an authenticator app to access “MySocialSecurity”
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/7/2025 @ 6:02 pmAssumes facts not in evidence. Failure to back the back the a tariffs would equally lead to his demise, which is why he announced that the Senate’s Tariff Review Act (assuming it gets out of the Senate) will never reach the House floor for a vote; as well as saying the House will give Trump “some space” to implement its policies.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/7/2025 @ 6:07 pm@306 You expect ignorant southern white trash maggots to learn shame? Talk about optimism! Pronouns, DEI and social justice were the donor class telling the DNC and democrat establishment what they could use to counter Bernie Sanders and the lefts economic populism. David brock in 2016 had hillary clinton use social justice to fend off Sanders attacks on her corruption and greed. Donor class to democrat party transgenders in women’s sports yes 15$ dollar minimum wage no! They can’t stop Bernie’s economic populism now!
asset (762a72) — 4/7/2025 @ 9:07 pmAsset, maybe you’re right. But I stay home if the choices are Sanders/Warren Vs Trump. Not sure how many are like me but from my POV that’s not worth filling in a bubble.
Time (83158d) — 4/8/2025 @ 3:36 amSIX B-2 bombers at Diego Garcia. Story Image
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/8/2025 @ 8:04 amAssumes facts not in evidence. Failure to back the back the a tariffs would equally lead to his demise
Right back at you. All it means is that the Speaker owes his job to Trump, not that backing the tariffs is popular among his caucus. Individual members are right about here
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/8/2025 @ 8:10 amLOL! There is a Far Side cartoon for every occasion. 🤣 Tariffs may not be “popular” among the Republican caucus, but as the LA Times article you posted here shows, swing district Republicans are grasping at straws. No other members of Congress are showing up as co-sponsors of Rep. Don Bacon’s bill on tariffs. In fact, the latest action for that bill (HR 2665), shows that it is been legislatively buried alive:
My emphasis. It will never see the light of day. No other similar bills have been introduced by Republicans in the House.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/8/2025 @ 9:00 amRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/8/2025 @ 9:00 am
Unless Trump supports it, in case he might want to reverse himself and convince people it’s over in order to help the Republicans retain a majority in the House.
Why, at this stage, would anyone want to introduce a variant? It could be amended in committee if this bill becomes possible.
Sammy Finkelman (7a414a) — 4/8/2025 @ 9:19 amLOL! I don’t think Trump (or any President) would willingly give up tariff setting authority.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/8/2025 @ 10:11 amThere were 8 last week, or 8 different aircraft were in DG for some point at least. With globe spanning range, and with the capabilities they have, they could be pretty much anywhere.
It seems a show of force for Iran, or maybe China. Half a dozen planes that are basically able to fly uncontested with 40k/lbs of ordinance can be intimidating. Although, Israel has kind of shown you really don’t need a B2, but we have them, so…
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 4/8/2025 @ 10:12 amFood fight:
More:
Even more:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/8/2025 @ 10:43 amI guess that wipes out the Trump/Musk Co-President narrative..
BuDuh (07c6e1) — 4/8/2025 @ 10:47 amOnly on trade.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/8/2025 @ 10:51 amTreading water:
As of now:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/8/2025 @ 11:01 amNow there are Chinese troops in Ukraine.
My preference would be low tariffs with every nation except Iran, the Russian terrorist state and communist China, especially especially with ChiComs fighting Ukrainians in Ukraine.
Paul Montagu (51dd04) — 4/8/2025 @ 11:59 amAt the closing bell all of the US stock averages fell into negative territory.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/8/2025 @ 1:06 pmDissing Trump and Johnson:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/8/2025 @ 1:17 pmRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/8/2025 @ 1:06 pm
They may have risen temporarily because of what are essentially technical reasons: Short sellers (not everyone who sold stock owned it) covering their bets, and specialists slowing down volatility.
There was some hoped for good news – or at least no terrible bad news – bad news would mean a trade war but it’s not coming from anywhere except China.
The Administration is claiming (I heard some snippet from somebody on the radio) that some big companies will be hurt (but presumably smaller companies will be helped) by the tariffs.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 4/8/2025 @ 2:03 pmPaul Montagu (51dd04) — 4/8/2025 @ 11:59 am
Secondary tariffs on Russian oil.
What rank were these Chinese? Credit cards?
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 4/8/2025 @ 2:04 pmPeculiar calculations made by the administration to justify tariff rates on individual countries (or trading zones):
https://www.firstpost.com/world/biggest-mistake-us-economist-ustr-cited-to-back-trump-tariffs-says-white-house-got-it-all-wrong-13878303.html
The truth was they arrived at their answer first and then made up their reasoning.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 4/8/2025 @ 2:12 pmSmart message by the Singapore PM.
Paul Montagu (51dd04) — 4/8/2025 @ 4:59 pmThis path Trump is taking is ruinous.
https://thedispatch.com/newsletter/wanderland/best-americans-polio-vaccine-jonas-salk-rotary-club/
Sometimes, a comment is almost as good as the article. This was a comment from George Skinner, on an article written by Kevin Williamson:
I’ve said for some time now that the downside of social media was harebrained people connecting with other harebrained people.
In previous times, one’s ideas were likely to get checked by a neighbor or others one would encounter in person. Now one can find someone–somewhere in the world–with the same dumb idea, and it becomes a mutual reinforcement society replete with information silos.
I’m glad that this site features differing opinions, from asset to NJRob.
norcal (cdf133) — 4/8/2025 @ 5:05 pmFYI:
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/8/2025 @ 9:27 pmYou know those tariff’s? The ones that wiped out TEN FLUCKING TRILLION DOLLARS in a week, well 4 trading days. The tariffs that were supposed to be reciprocal to the tariffs that other countries impose on us…except their formula has nothing to do with that in any way, they say it’s tariffs.
The Netherlands: The United States had its largest trade surplus with The Netherlands, at $56 billion. 20% Tariff, again, supposed to be half what the tariff being charged the US is, or with their published deficit divided by 2. The weighted average tariff on imports from the United States was 1.23 percent
So the answer for the Netherlands, who is doing exactly what stupid Hitler seems to want to them to do, would be 0% or 0.615%, but for some reason it’s 20%.
Morons who can’t do 3rd grad math, or high economics, are running every branch of the US government. We should be ashamed of ourselves letting people this stupid run a lemonade stand, much less the most important country on the planet.
He wanted you to inject disinfectant for Covid, and this is his novel solution is his answer to global trade.
Just goes to show, becoming a billionaire is less skill, knowledge, and drive, and more just pure luck. That Nutlick is our Commerce secretary is kind of funny, if his ideas weren’t going to take 2 generations to fix if ever.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 4/8/2025 @ 9:28 pmWell, this is good news.
President Donald Trump said Tuesday that pharmaceutical imports will soon be hit with “major” tariffs as part of his efforts to drive manufacturing back to the U.S.
Drug imports evaded the first round of tariffs that Trump imposed on countries around the world, but the president said they will not be spared.
“We’re going to be announcing very shortly a major tariff on pharmaceuticals,” he said at a dinner of the National Republican Congressional Committee. “And when they hear that, they will leave China. They will leave other places because they have to sell — most of their product is sold here and they’re going to be opening up their plants all over the place.”
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 4/8/2025 @ 9:36 pmnorcal,
I disagree strongly with parts of that. The populist movement did not start with 9/11 Truthers — we’ve had “truthers” of some sort since the beginning.
It started with a growing divide between the working class and the affluent class. One group’s kids went to college and the other group’s went to work. Then you needed a college degree to get a lot of jobs that didn’t really need them. So, fewer jobs for the working class and more income and wealth for the already-affluent.
Then the affluent folks discovered that their investments would do better if they could hire people for peanuts, so all those working class jobs moved elsewhere, and both political parties catered to the people doing that.
Obviously the sh*t was going to hit the fan, and it did. We had the incredible misfortune to have Donald Trump as the opportunist du jour that day. Because he IS a A MORON, and an ignorant moron at that.
All those people who support him just want to have some regular jobs and not have to fight recent immigrants for the scraps off the affluent folk’s table. It’s too bad, because they aren’t going to get them — Trump is simply going to beggar the affluent instead.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/8/2025 @ 9:38 pmOr, as David Brooks put it:
And if you look at the Trump regime, it has no interest in the working class at all. It’s not even the aim of these tariffs — those are about favoring the American old money; Procter & Gamble will do just fine. And, I suspect, all these market gyrations benefit those who have even a few hours advance notice of what Trump will say and do.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/8/2025 @ 9:47 pmSocial media, and smartphones permanently attached to face, have allowed this kind of thing to escalate exponentially. Where “fake news” ran in a paper, and a day or three weeks later, a correction appeared, so it was slow to get disseminated and slow to be corrected, but the burden of getting these “urban legends” published somewhere was pretty difficult.
Today, the burden of completely making things up and exclaiming them to 7B people, is zero. It get’s picked up, or not, along with the other 700 fabrications that came out that minute, and the system is predictable enough, if you really want to, you can push lies so hard that someone who is a rapist, racist, conman, felon, and profoundly stupid can be president.
And then hasten the collapse of America as the global power to just one of them, but uninterested in staying rich as a country, as long as the sucka’s keep the money flowing to MAGA.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 4/8/2025 @ 9:49 pmThis is David Brooks in one. He’s kind right, sorta, almost. All of that is true, but America until recently, was pretty much the only place where a college dropout can be an illegal immigrant can become the world’s richest man.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 4/8/2025 @ 10:08 pmPopulism is as American as apple pie; beginning with Andrew Jackson in the 1830s; the Populist Party and William Jennings Bryan in the 1890s (winning 8.5% of the vote and four states in the 1892 election); Huey Long in the 1930s, etc.
Rip Murdock (75b245) — 4/8/2025 @ 10:13 pmHeh…
The extraordinary spat between Elon Musk and Peter Navarro is exposing the divisions within MAGA’s new, big-tent coalition.
and then pick the dumbest possible side, every flucking time.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 4/8/2025 @ 10:14 pmAnother heh…
Poor widdle baby, they’s so mean to him.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 4/8/2025 @ 10:18 pmSocial media, and smartphones permanently attached to face, have allowed this kind of thing to escalate exponentially.
Steven King wrote a novel (Cell) where everyone who answers a particular call on the cell phone has their mind turned to mush. I guess it could happen slower.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/8/2025 @ 10:21 pmHuey Long in the 1930s, etc.
Don’t forget FDR, who was just as unpredictable and obstinate as Trump.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/8/2025 @ 10:23 pmAnd then hasten the collapse of America as the global power to just one of them, but uninterested in staying rich as a country, as long as the sucka’s keep the money flowing to MAGA.
You can only peddle resentments so long before it becomes obvious that’s all you’ve got. We may be there now.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/8/2025 @ 10:24 pmMusk, in a series of posts on X, called Navarro “dumber than a sack of bricks” and “Peter Retarrdo,” an escalation from his weekend criticisms of Navarro’s Harvard PhD.
Don’t assume that this is a fair fight. Navarro IS dumber than a sack of bricks. He’s one of those stupid people who think that everyone else must be making it all up, so he made some stuff up too.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/8/2025 @ 10:26 pmMeanwhile — instead of writing fraudulent books that quote his sockpuppet as an authority like Navarro did — Musk built Paypal, Tesla and SpaceX. You can’t be a stupid idjit and do that.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/8/2025 @ 10:29 pmMusk’s talent, and it’s a good one, is spotting talent. He’s not technical, he’s not a bidness man, but his one preternatural ability is he hires great people. So he’s hired smart people and then he’s become a singing dancing illustration of the Dunning Kruger effect. Just because you’re good at thing 1, doesn’t mean good at thing 2, 3 or 67.
At least he has a skill, most of stupid Hitler’s advisors are the guys that the HR lady never forwards their resume too you. C and D students at Harvard, are still C and D students. Plus, a Harvard undergrad isn’t all that hard, I hired this guy in the 90’s that graduated, in 3 years, with a BS in CompSci and a BA in Classics, from Harvard, and he was a complete idiot.
I talked to him about a decade later after going to get a Stanford MBA, and work at Microsoft, he just wouldn’t stop telling me how helpful it was for someone to actually explain to him that the diploma was great, now learn something. If success is money, then he’s pretty damn successful, one of our mutual acquaintance said he just bought an island in Puget Sound. Could be social media inflation too, a lot of that is going around.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 4/8/2025 @ 10:43 pmKevin M (a9545f) — 4/8/2025 @ 9:38 pm
I fear you are looking at this from just one angle. One way to become middle class is by higher wages. Another is by lower prices. The price of blue jeans is about the same (in nominal terms, not adjusted for inflation) as it was when I was in high school (1980). That means, for many goods, a low-paying job now buys more than a low-paying job then.
Kevin Williamson says it so much better than I can:
https://thedispatch.com/article/bessent-american-dream-wages-prices-tariffs/
I haven’t seen you commenting at The Dispatch. Did you stop subscribing to it?
norcal (cdf133) — 4/8/2025 @ 10:43 pmI don’t know why typing on a phone is so bad.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 4/8/2025 @ 10:43 pmStill more…on…
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 4/8/2025 @ 11:05 pm@380 not sanders :but AOC maybe warren for veep. Hopefully Jasmin Crockett. Latest NY senate poll AOC 55% schumer 36% Democrats and independents now as angry as tea party was in 2010 with corporate shills.
asset (92226d) — 4/9/2025 @ 12:08 amThis administration, keeps talking about vague notions. But they don’t seem to understand that these are not a plan. Not only do they have no plan, they don’t seem to even have goals.
They must be using Grok to do most of these “strategies”, the worst, most likely to hallucinate AI model in existence.
This is just a failure at every level of competence.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 4/9/2025 @ 12:44 amWell, of course he want’s to deport US citizens.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 4/9/2025 @ 12:47 amMusk’s talent, and it’s a good one, is spotting talent. He’s not technical, he’s not a bidness man, but his one preternatural ability is he hires great people.
The essential value of a human being is his capacity for productive labor.
nk (e9faf8) — 4/9/2025 @ 6:50 am“ And if you look at the Trump regime, it has no interest in the working class at all. It’s not even the aim of these tariffs — those are about favoring the American old money; Procter & Gamble will do just fine. And, I suspect, all these market gyrations benefit those who have even a few hours advance notice of what Trump will say and do.”
– Kevin M
Bingo.
The whole point of Trump’s “third term” talk is to pretend that he still thinks he’s accountable to his voting base. He knows he is not. These tariffs set the table for insider trading at a massive, massive level, with the players knowing that they can all be pardoned by Trump on his way out the door and off into the sunset.
He’s a ham-fisted conman who finally found marks dumb enough to fall for his ham-fisted con. Nothing more, nothing less.
Leviticus (535f25) — 4/9/2025 @ 7:45 amIsrael also promised to import more from the USA.
They discussed other things as well (Netanyahu added a diversion to the USA at the end of his trip to Hungary) but all that is known that Netanyahu got from Trump was an autographed copy of Donald Trump’s book The Art of the Deal.
Netanyahu arrived back in ISrael 3 hours before he was to resume testimony in his long-running trial.
Sammy Finkelman (c1c758) — 4/9/2025 @ 9:01 am@414:
A lot of new graduates have utterly no experience to use as a reference for the stuff the crammed in during college. It’s one of the reasons doctors have to do a residency before they can practice. There is no substitute for experience in any job, and the brightest people are the worst until they understand that they don’t actually know everything.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/9/2025 @ 9:07 amI fear you are looking at this from just one angle.
I am looking at this from my angle. I get the “marker” argument and Obama and Biden were terrible in thinking that, say, owning a home made you middle class becuase it was a middle-class marker.
But that’s not where I’m coming from. My parents were working class, from a long line of working class immigrant stock. Back in those days it was a lot easier for someone like me to attend good public schools and then a great private college. That education (and ability) was my path to an eventual upper-middle-class existence.
The problem is that, sometime between 1970 and 2020, the good public school became rare and the path to a great private college because difficult (price, preparedness and preferences that did not seem to include working class white men).
One of the good things in the recent upheavals is that these great colleges have realized their mistakes and are at least attempting to lower the costs. I think that Harvard is now tuition free for most of the working class and a good portion of the middle class. If you can get in (still a work in progress).
One of the bad things is that public schools for the working class still range from not-all-that-great to terrible. Much reform is needed there, and the NEA is standing in the schoolhouse door.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/9/2025 @ 9:18 amI haven’t seen you commenting at The Dispatch. Did you stop subscribing to it?
No, I just stopped commenting for a while.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/9/2025 @ 9:21 amBut, then again, neither is being bossed around by a semi-literate, porn-star-diddling game-show host and his dopey hedge-fund henchmen, who all seem to think what Americans really need is higher prices at Walmart.
And it was stuff like this ad hominum that I was seeing too frequently that soured me some. Not that it is untrue, it’s just gratuitous and suggests that the entire column comes from a rejectionist place.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/9/2025 @ 9:25 amTo me, “middle-class” is a state of existence where one is not worried about near-term security, although it may hinge upon a job or other circumstances remaining unchanged.
Stable housing, medical security, no fear of going hungry, disposable income, plans for a better future. As a child I was on the edge of this, and housing was often not stable; we rented, and moved a lot. Anything I wanted I had to work for, one way or the other; didn’t even have an allowance. Gathered up a lot of 3-cent-deposit bottles and delivered the local paper.
It’s not something that can be given in pieces with state grants or subsidies.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/9/2025 @ 9:35 amThey are also not paid out of current income, so the [percentage of average income they cost can easily rise,
Education is mainly paid for by taxes and by borrowed money.
Health care is paid for ny insurance and by the government through taxes,
Houses are paid for by borrowed money, usually over a 30-year period,
Sammy Finkelman (c1c758) — 4/9/2025 @ 10:28 am“Winter is not done with us yet”
Heard the other day, and again (close to) yesterday,
Sammy Finkelman (705ab8) — 4/10/2025 @ 2:59 amTerrible helicopter crash in NYC.
Video showing moment of failure.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 4/10/2025 @ 3:09 pmThe USSC just unanimously ruled that Trump “facilitate” the return of Mr. Garcia so as to receive due process. That couldn’t be a clearer message.
Paul Montagu (0a766a) — 4/10/2025 @ 3:58 pm