Weekend Open Thread
[guest post by Dana]
Let’s go!
First news item
Oh, let’s just call a spade a spade here: who is it that the United States has aligned themselves with in the Ukraine-Russia war? Thanks to Trump, it’s Russia, of course. Thus, it is not in Russia’s interest:
CNN reports that the State Department is now confirming cancellation of the contract tracking abducted Ukrainian kids, claiming it’s not in U.S. interests. Also, a State Department spokesperson said the data hasn’t been deleted and now rests with a subcontractor, though more details appear scarce.
Second news item
How’re the Republican townhalls going (for those Congressmembers who are still doing them)? Let’s take a look-see at a Wyoming gathering:
Holy shit. This happened last night at the townhall of MAGA Congresswoman Harriet Wageman, who defeated Liz Cheney in deep red Wyoming, where Trump won with over 45%, the biggest margin in the nation.
Give 'em hell.
— CALL TO ACTIVISM (@CalltoActivism) March 20, 2025
Third news item
Business as usual with this crew:
Elon Musk’s political action committee is offering Wisconsin voters $100 to sign a petition expressing their opposition to “activist judges,” a cause that President Trump is pressing as judges block or delay several parts of his agenda.
Why it matters: The move reflects how Musk is throwing his considerable wealth behind Trump’s priorities — including an upcoming election in Wisconsin for a crucial seat on the state’s Supreme Court.
When you’re a star billionaire, they let you do it. You can do anything, even use your oodles of money to attack the rule of law. . .
Fourth news item
Testifying against her would-be assassins:
On Thursday, after deliberating for less than four hours, a federal jury returned guilty verdicts against two Eastern European self-described gangsters hired by Iran to send a hit man to kill an Iranian dissident at her Brooklyn home. The intended victim, Masih Alinejad, is a journalist and activist with nearly 9 million Instagram followers and the personal enmity of Iran’s Supreme Leader, who calls her “the American agent.”
The July 2022 plot was at least the third attempt on Alinejad’s life by Iran, and the trial marked the first time the regime’s assassination apparatus was laid out in detail in a U.S. courtroom. Until the United States v. Rafat Amirov and Polad Omarov, the Justice Department had issued indictments against Iranian officials that described their alleged efforts to assassinate U.S. officials—including Donald Trump and John Bolton, Trump’s National Security Advisor in his first term. But on the 24th floor of a lower Manhattan U.S. District courthouse, a string of FBI agents filled in the nitty gritty—detailing the forensic penetration of iPhones, Google accounts, WhatsApp messages, and search histories of Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) operatives hunting Alinejad.
. . .
Alinejad testified to a packed courtroom on Wednesday. Since moving to the U.S. in 2009, the journalist has emerged as a prominent dissident, with a large following inside Iran, especially among young women who understand the regime’s enforcement of compulsory hijab, or modest dress, as shorthand for all its misogynist laws. Iran’s most recent attempt on her was in 2024, when, according to a U.S. indictment, Iran engaged an Afghan to arrange the assassination of both her and Trump.
“They wanted Ms. Alinejad dead, not in the witness box,” said Assistant U.S. Attorney Michael D. Lockard.
Appearing with her signature yellow blossom in a towering nimbus of hair, Alinejad explained that she had been out of town for most of the time that Mehdiyev was staking out her street. On the day they overlapped, she was alarmed to lock eyes with him while looking out a front window. “He was in my sunflowers, staring into my eyes. I got really panicked,” she said, and she ducked out of the house with a friend. Mehdiyev soon fled as well and was arrested after running a stop sign.
An incredibly courageous woman stands firm.
Fifth news item
Oh:
A hearing has been set for Friday afternoon to debate whether a federal judge in Washington acted correctly when he temporarily stopped the Trump administration last weekend from summarily deporting scores of Venezuelan immigrants under a powerful but rarely invoked wartime statute.
The hearing…could also include some discussion about the Justice Department’s repeated recalcitrance in responding to the judge’s demands. He has been requesting information about two deportation flights in particular, which officials say carried members of a Venezuelan street gang, Tren de Aragua, to El Salvador.
The judge, James E. Boasberg, scolded the department in a stern order on Thursday for having “evaded its obligations” to provide him with data about the flights. He wants that information as he seeks to determine whether the Trump administration violated his initial instructions to turn the planes around after they left the United States on Saturday evening.
Most of the courtroom conversation, however, is likely to concern Judge Boasberg’s underlying decision to stop the White House for now from using the wartime law, known as the Alien Enemies Act, to pursue its immigration agenda. The statute, passed in 1798, gives the government expansive powers during an invasion or a declared war to round up and summarily remove any subjects of a “hostile nation” over the age of 14 as “alien enemies.”
Meanwhile, Republicans continue to go after judges on their list:
. . .the president’s allies in Congress have already filed at least four impeachment resolutions against judges, following rulings that slowed or temporarily paused Trump’s push to change the federal government. And a House GOP lawmaker reported he added to that list by filing articles of impeachment against the federal judge in Washington.
House Judiciary Chairman Jim Jordan, R-Ohio, and House Speaker Mike Johnson, R-La., have not publicly said they would go forward with them — an action that could set up an extraordinary and historic test of judicial independence and a showdown over the separation of powers.
From Trump, who believes that the Supreme Court, heck, any court, is there to do his bidding:
President Donald Trump demanded that Chief Justice John Roberts and the U.S. Supreme Court rein in federal judges who have issued injunctions around the country that have impeded an array of his policies.
“It is our goal to MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, and such a high aspiration can never be done if Radical and Highly Partisan Judges are allowed to stand in the way of JUSTICE. STOP NATIONWIDE INJUNCTIONS NOW, BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE. If Justice Roberts and the United States Supreme Court do not fix this toxic and unprecedented situation IMMEDIATELY, our Country is in very serious trouble!” Trump said in a Truth Social post on Thursday.
Eh, who needs three branches of government anyway. . .
Sixth news item
It’s almost like Russia doesn’t want to end the war!:
The southern Ukrainian port city of Odesa was engulfed in flames late Thursday after being struck by a large-scale Russian drone attack, hours after US President Donald Trump expressed optimism about ending the war and as peace talks are set to resume on Monday.
Trump – who recently held separate phone calls with Russian President Vladimir Putin and Ukraine’s leader Volodymyr Zelensky on implementing a partial ceasefire – projected optimism about reaching an end to the war on Thursday, saying “we’re doing pretty well in that regard.”
The city of Odesa under Russian attack last night.
Russians now just aim to kill off Ukraine's civilian population. pic.twitter.com/WEyHjFZvhy
— Jay in Kyiv (@JayinKyiv) March 21, 2025
President Vladimir Putin ordered Ukrainian citizens in Russia to either “legalize” their immigration status or leave the country by Sept. 10, according to a presidential decree published Thursday.
Ukrainians without “legal grounds to stay or reside in Russia” must leave unless they “settle their legal status” within the next six months and 10 days, the decree states.
The order appears to apply to Ukrainian passport holders from four partially occupied regions — Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia — that Russia claims to have annexed in 2022, as well as from Crimea, which Russia seized in 2014.
Have a good weekend.
—Dana
Hello.
Dana (761c1f) — 3/21/2025 @ 8:28 amWhy would anybody want representation from a law firm that would so easily roll over to a bully? They should call themselves Pizda Weiss.
Paul Montagu (f93fe0) — 3/21/2025 @ 9:31 amJack Goldsmith, a Republican, on universal injunctions by district court judges. The conclusion…
Paul Montagu (f93fe0) — 3/21/2025 @ 9:44 amAs much as I dislike some of the judicial overreach, the Chief and the Court do not really have this power, other than on a case by case basis. The regulation of inferior courts is done by Congress.
Congress could, for example, require that only judges in the state or district where the causative event(s) occurred could issue injunctions, and that any injunction that reached outside that state or district would be stayed pending appeal. To have nationwide effect, an appellate could would have to affirm.
But, to be fair to Trump, at least he knows that he doesn’t have the power.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/21/2025 @ 9:58 amit agreed to provide $40m in free legal services to support his administration’s goals.
I can just see them relying on that.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/21/2025 @ 10:00 amHe wants that information as he seeks to determine whether the Trump administration violated his initial instructions to turn the planes around after they left the United States on Saturday evening.
I am more interested in whether he had any right to issue this order. I don’t know where the line is, but not every order a judge makes must be obeyed. Can he insert himself into the military chain of command, for example?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/21/2025 @ 10:06 amIn “Die Hard With Vengeance” — assuming Google is right — one of the characters tells another: “I don’t like you because you’re gonna get me killed.”
For similar reasons, I don’t like the Loser because he has made increased nuclear proliferation nearly certain, and nuclear war more likely. And that, after a whole series of presidents worked, with some success, to do the opposite.
Jim Miller (52bb8d) — 3/21/2025 @ 10:17 am“I am more interested in whether he had any right to issue this order. I don’t know where the line is, but not every order a judge makes must be obeyed. Can he insert himself into the military chain of command, for example?”
Almost certainly not, but I would argue that the use of military planes does not necessarily make it a military operation.
Davethulhu (14e9e4) — 3/21/2025 @ 10:47 am@2
That’s not the story I took from… the story is that Weiss acknowledged the wrongdoing of its former partner Mark Pomerantz, who helped Alvin Bragg in Trump’s NY case.
This is nasty political business. This is what happens when you FA…the FO phase is here.
THIS is what I was warning about using the legal process, as a replacement for political accountability.
whembly (b7cc46) — 3/21/2025 @ 10:50 amNo, the White House claimed that. If even true, it’s still a cave by Paul Weiss because the only “wrongdoing” they committed was being on the wrong side of your bully president.
Paul Montagu (f93fe0) — 3/21/2025 @ 10:56 amGrayson Logue at The Dispatch on how this NIH is obstructing legitimate scientific research.
Paul Montagu (f93fe0) — 3/21/2025 @ 10:59 amDid Paul Weiss issue a statement to that effect?
Rip Murdock (288dd2) — 3/21/2025 @ 11:06 amJust as Congress can re-write immigration laws to eliminate enforcement discretion by the Executive Branch.
Rip Murdock (288dd2) — 3/21/2025 @ 11:11 am@12
Sure Rip, the guy largely instrumental in the Bragg’s prosecution is going to say “yeah, I engaged in lawfare”.
Seriously?
whembly (b7cc46) — 3/21/2025 @ 12:29 pmAnd that, after a whole series of presidents worked, with some success, to do the opposite.
Disagree. The last president who made an attempt was Bill Clinton. Everyone since kicked the can down the road. Clinton was moving forces to correct North Korea’s clandestine NNPT breakout whe Jimmy Carter flew in, without Clinton’s approval, and conducted his own diplomacy. The result was a NK promise to stop plutonium separation. But they didn’t stop their uranium bomb project.
After that is was a string of excuses and reasons why delay was better. Iran saw this and has emulated it.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/21/2025 @ 12:57 pmAlmost certainly not, but I would argue that the use of military planes does not necessarily make it a military operation.
So, they like rented them?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/21/2025 @ 12:59 pmPaul Weiss because the only “wrongdoing” they committed was standing with the wrong bully.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/21/2025 @ 1:01 pmJust as Congress can re-write immigration laws to eliminate enforcement discretion by the Executive Branch.
Or as judges can re-write immigration laws to give carte blanche to “discretion.”
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/21/2025 @ 1:03 pmPaul Weiss is name of the law firm (full name Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison); in your post you said:
So did the law firm issue a statement acknowledging Pomerantz’s wrongdoing?
Rip Murdock (288dd2) — 3/21/2025 @ 1:04 pmOr as judges can re-write immigration laws to give carte blanche to “discretion.”
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/21/2025 @ 1:03 pm
It’s better for Congress to change the laws than having the courts arbitrarily change the law.
Rip Murdock (288dd2) — 3/21/2025 @ 1:07 pmNow we are getting more into malicious compliance:
Acting Social Security head threatens to shut down Social Security
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/21/2025 @ 1:09 pmI’m not sure why you would want to give the courts, a body not elected by the people, that much power.
Rip Murdock (288dd2) — 3/21/2025 @ 1:10 pmIt’s better for Congress to change the laws than having the courts arbitrarily change the law.
Lots better. But as it stands, with 700 district court judges it’s far easier to find compliant judges than 60 votes in the Senate.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/21/2025 @ 1:10 pmI’m not sure why you would want to give the courts, a body not elected by the people, that much power.
Didn’t say I did. What I was talking about is the status quo, where Congress is a pitiful helpless giant and the courts have run amok.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/21/2025 @ 1:12 pmI would expect individual SS recipients should be able to sue, as they would have standing.
Rip Murdock (288dd2) — 3/21/2025 @ 1:12 pmThe state of Congress is a Republican problem now.
Rip Murdock (288dd2) — 3/21/2025 @ 1:15 pmOf course not. The United States is (when Donald Trump is not trying to pressure Ukraine) selling weapons and sharing intelligence with Ukraine and not with Russia, What it is is that Donald Trump doesn’t care about human rights.
He’s trying to maintain a posture of neutrality with regard to the war (and not satisfying Putin much about that – he’s not about to comply with Putin’s requests for real neutrality) but he doesn’t want to get involved with human rights (or with opposing any territorial acquisition by Russia.
Because, after all, human rights is not something you can compromise on.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/21/2025 @ 1:23 pmIt’s probably easier to find 51 votes in the Senate to repeal that pesky filibuster rule.
Rip Murdock (288dd2) — 3/21/2025 @ 1:25 pm“So, they like rented them?”
Basically yes. What military function did they fill that a non-military airliner couldn’t.
Davethulhu (14e9e4) — 3/21/2025 @ 1:25 pm@19
whembly (b7cc46) — 3/21/2025 @ 1:25 pmFor all of his fulminations against China, Donald Trump has never, I think, mentioned anything to do with human rights. That would not, in his opinion, be consistent with “America First.”
He much prefers to make (many times unjustified) complaints about trade.
he’s carrying out Congressionally mandated actions with regard to Xinjiang (Sinkiang) but this is something routine and in any case anti-free-trade.
And he (and/or Musk et al) has terminated some relief that the United States had been supplying with regard to the famine in Sudan.
https://www.jrsusa.org/news/new-york-times-u-s-foreign-aid-cuts-hit-sudanese-refugees-fleeing-violence-and-famine-in-darfur
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/19/opinion/america-sudan-genocide.html
The RSF had previously gotten weapons from the Wagner Group = Russia, so maybe ussia is their true sponsor
And I guess no substitute transportation – at least not for all.
Kristof’s link: https://mutualaidsudan.org/donate
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/21/2025 @ 1:40 pmThat’s from the White House-what did Paul Weiss (or Brad Karl) say on the record about Pomerantz?
Rip Murdock (288dd2) — 3/21/2025 @ 1:40 pmCongress is a “pitiful helpless giant” only because of the Senate’s filibuster rule.
Rip Murdock (288dd2) — 3/21/2025 @ 1:43 pmI read that Russia is giving intelligence to the Houthis in Yemen.
See also:
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/menasource/houthi-terrorist-designation-russias-yemen-strategy/
Donald Trump is only blaming Iran. Russia’s involvement is almost under the radar
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/21/2025 @ 1:50 pmBullsh-t.
Paul Montagu (f93fe0) — 3/21/2025 @ 1:52 pmI would guess that Paul, Weiss did not agree with all the claims that the Trump people made but conceded some of it, so they agreed to do some pro bono work that Trump would approve of.
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/21/business/paul-weiss-memo-trump-deal.html
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/21/2025 @ 1:55 pmThe Democrats suck and they really hate winning. Their best candidates are low single-digits, with Shapiro at 4%, Fetterman at 1%, Beshear at 2%.
Paul Montagu (f93fe0) — 3/21/2025 @ 1:59 pmI didn’t say it wasn’t futile and stupid. He gains nothing.
And the United States is by no means neutral.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/21/2025 @ 2:00 pmTrump wants the appearance of victory or success more than he wants actual success.
He also extended the deadline for New York to turn off the cameras used to bill for congestion pricing.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/21/2025 @ 2:02 pmThanks; I see there is no “acknowledgment” of any wrongdoing by Mark Pomerantz; or anything else the White House said.
Rip Murdock (288dd2) — 3/21/2025 @ 2:03 pmVP Hamel makes sh-t up, too, just like his boss.
My party sucks, too.
Paul Montagu (f93fe0) — 3/21/2025 @ 2:06 pmA semi-constitutional crisis in Israel over Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s dismissal of Shin Bet chief Ronen Bar and subsequent Cabinet vote to effectuate it and other related issues.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/cabinet-fires-shin-bet-chief-pm-claims-lack-of-trust-in-bar-who-calls-move-invalid
His first attempted firing was two weeks ago Sunday.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwygkknzn9yo
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/21/2025 @ 2:10 pmI think the firm must have agreed verbally that they only did or did too much work that was against Trump. (Pomerantz went to work for Alvin Bragg.)
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/21/2025 @ 2:16 pmUnsupported by the facts. Ever since Trump’s “perfect phone call” in 2019, and the failure of Ukraine to accede to his wishes, he has worked to at least punish, if not destroy Ukraine. During his first term he said he believed that Ukraine “interfered” in the 2016 election; a view backed by a number of current Republican senators during the first impeachment. And he continues to say that Ukraine, not Russia, started the war. He also has suspended all US government activities that threaten Russia: defending against Russian cyber attacks and cease offensive cyber operations and information operations against Russia; closing the Office of Net Assessment; voting with Russia against the EU/Ukraine UN resolution condemning Russia’s invasion, etc. And he continually praises Putin, while deriding Zelensky.
It boils down to the fact he doesn’t want to drive a hard bargain with Russia, he wants to drive the hard bargain with Ukraine.
Rip Murdock (288dd2) — 3/21/2025 @ 2:31 pmWhat work did Paul Weiss do against Trump?
Rip Murdock (288dd2) — 3/21/2025 @ 2:33 pmHere’s an article on one of the more recent reductions in nuclear weapons.
As I recall,there has been a reduction of almost 80 percent from Their Cold War peak in the nuclear weapons in the world.
Jim Miller (474814) — 3/21/2025 @ 2:34 pmHere’s a summary of the partially successful efforts to control nuclear proliferation.
Key point: Many nations which could build nuclear weapons have chosen not to do so, because they trusted American guarantees. I expect some such nations to change their minds, soon, if they have not already. And some of those nations could produce nuclear weapons within months.
(For your listening enjoyment.)
Jim Miller (474814) — 3/21/2025 @ 2:48 pm@40
Actions speaks louder Rip.
whembly (b7cc46) — 3/21/2025 @ 3:00 pmCommerce sec. and billionaire luttnick says seniors wont mind if they don’t get their social security checks! (DU)
asset (c06a63) — 3/21/2025 @ 3:46 pmThe nazis called the the french resistance terrorists. If the latter day nazis want to call their resistance domestic terrorists so be it!
asset (c06a63) — 3/21/2025 @ 3:48 pmBrad Karp’s words speak for themselves.
Nothing about
Rip Murdock (288dd2) — 3/21/2025 @ 4:31 pmNothing about Mark Pomerantz, and the White House hasn’t released a transcript of their meeting.
Rip Murdock (288dd2) — 3/21/2025 @ 4:33 pmMore on the agreement between the Trump Administration and Paul Weiss:
Nary a mention of Mark Pomerantz.
Rip Murdock (288dd2) — 3/21/2025 @ 4:43 pm@whembly it isn’t them caving to what their former employee did, its “nice law firm you have there, it would be too bad if something happened to it.” They are paying extortion.
Nic (120c94) — 3/21/2025 @ 5:53 pmBasically yes. What military function did they fill that a non-military airliner couldn’t.
Security, well-trained armed guards, discomfort.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/21/2025 @ 6:03 pmCongress is a “pitiful helpless giant” only because of the Senate’s filibuster rule.
No, it’s because no one will compromise. Until that changes, it won’t matter what you do. Without the filibuster you will just get see-sawing laws. The idea of the filibuster is to force a consensus that can last. But no one seeks consensus, they just scream past each other and mail propaganda to the donors.
Something needs to change.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/21/2025 @ 6:08 pmMy party sucks, too.
Which party is that? The Statist Socialist Party or the Statist Protectionist Party?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/21/2025 @ 6:13 pm“Security, well-trained armed guards, discomfort.”
The american prison system is well equipped to provide all of these.
Davethulhu (c6e1d4) — 3/21/2025 @ 6:13 pm(For your listening enjoyment.)
Or maybe this
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/21/2025 @ 6:16 pmThere was no operational secrecy, the whole thing was filmed. The military was used as a prop. Amazing hypocrisy from the party that freaked out over a marine holding an umbrella for Obama.
Davethulhu (c6e1d4) — 3/21/2025 @ 6:17 pmAt one point in the wide-ranging, nearly two-hour conversation, Lutnick also said that if Social Security “didn’t send out their checks this month,” his “mother-in-law, who’s 94, she wouldn’t call and complain.”
Like hell. Most people receiving SS checks take it down to the wire each month. It’s hard to live on $1700/month.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/21/2025 @ 6:18 pmThe american prison system is well equipped to provide all of these.
Except they are full and crowding people in will just get you visited by different judges.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/21/2025 @ 6:19 pmThis administration is full of the most dishonest cretins and/or the biggest ignoramuses around:
Dana (240373) — 3/21/2025 @ 6:26 pmSpeaking of hypocrisy, Trump dismantling the Dept of Education is going to do a million times as much damage to women’s school sports compared to the claimed damage of a half dozen trans kids.
Davethulhu (c6e1d4) — 3/21/2025 @ 6:34 pm>Congress is a “pitiful helpless giant” only because of the Senate’s filibuster rule.
LOL. If the filibuster were abolished today, Congress would fall all over itself endorsing transferring power to the executive and lining up behind whatever Trump wants.
It’s a pitiful helpless giant because the Republicans in the legislature are afraid to step out of line, even in defense of their own principles.
aphrael (809a18) — 3/21/2025 @ 6:41 pmThe Republicans are already endorsing the transfer to Trump by not doing anything. It is unreasonable to expect a Republican Congress to defy the leader of their party.
Rip Murdock (288dd2) — 3/21/2025 @ 7:39 pmGeorge Foreman, RIP, at 76.
Paul Montagu (f93fe0) — 3/21/2025 @ 7:42 pmThere is nothing in the history of the filibuster that supports that notion.
Rip Murdock (288dd2) — 3/21/2025 @ 7:48 pm1. So what?
2. One party control of Congress and the presidency is common during the first two years of anew administration, but its lasted for an entire term only once since 1969, during the Carter administration; and In the 27 congressional sessions following Johnson’s presidency, one-party control has existed for just eight total sessions.
3. I would rather have Congress debate and pass legislation enacting Trump’s reorganization of government than have him do it by (legally questionable) fiat. To do that, however, would require the end of the filibuster, as Democrats would never allow his proposals to come to a final vote.
Rip Murdock (288dd2) — 3/21/2025 @ 8:06 pmDuring the next Democrat administration, you will see that President using the same tactics as Trump to push through their policy preferences; arguing that the filibuster will be used by Republicans to hamstring his policies.
“Government by executive order” will become the new norm.
Rip Murdock (ab824a) — 3/21/2025 @ 8:13 pmI would argue that it has been the norm for a some time.
Joe (584b3d) — 3/22/2025 @ 7:09 amI agree, and it needs to be broken.
Rip Murdock (288dd2) — 3/22/2025 @ 8:45 amThere is nothing in the history of the filibuster that supports that notion.
Nothing in your link even suggests that. It simply says that getting past the filibuster can be difficult. It requires compromise and seeking some bipartisan consensus.
The point is that a 51-vote majority lasts only as long as the next biennial election. Any law that rests on a bare majority is ephemeral.
However, if you get 60 votes for your bill, it has significant headroom versus repeal. Those 60 votes, if you can get them, represent “consensus”.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/22/2025 @ 8:58 amTo do that, however, would require the end of the filibuster, as Democrats would never allow his proposals to come to a final vote.
So, getting over right NOW is more important than lasting change?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/22/2025 @ 8:59 am“Government by executive order” will become the new norm.
Here’s a better idea: Since this is unquestionably unconstitutional, strike all those orders down, leaving them ONLY Congress as a way to pass laws. As you know, I’d also give Congress the ability to veto regulations, too.
The whole EO thing started once Congress lost that check and presidents discovered that ordering agencies to adopt new rules was as good as passing laws.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/22/2025 @ 9:03 amChina Explores Limiting Its Own Exports to Mollify Trump
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/22/2025 @ 9:10 amYet another Biden lie:
The Biden LNG ‘Pause’ Deception
So Germany is burning coal because we won’t send them LNG. Yet another win for the environment!
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/22/2025 @ 9:28 amGreenpeace Loses a $667 Million Verdict
I wonder if the Tesla attacks are just as “spontaneous.”
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/22/2025 @ 9:34 am“Consensus” and “bipartisanship” are overrated. The point of winning elections is to govern, and you can’t do that by allowing the minority to veto even opportunity to bring legislation to a vote. .
Rip Murdock (f259db) — 3/22/2025 @ 10:08 amThis is one of many reasons why this Biden administration truly sucked.
Our sanctioning Russian oil doesn’t justify getting oil from a socialist dictatorship like the Maduro regime.
Paul Montagu (f93fe0) — 3/22/2025 @ 11:39 amIf only all of RFK Jr.’s proposals were the right thing for the wrong reason.
Conspiracy theorists like him don’t subscribe to a single conspiracy theory, they’re into lots of ’em.
Paul Montagu (f93fe0) — 3/22/2025 @ 11:44 am“Consensus” and “bipartisanship” are overrated.
It’s the difference between governing and screaming. You seem to prefer the screaming.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/22/2025 @ 12:09 pmOur sanctioning Russian oil doesn’t justify getting oil from a socialist dictatorship like the Maduro regime.
Oil is largely fungible. With a slightly higher price they’d reopen wells in West Texas.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/22/2025 @ 12:10 pmWe can get all our oil on this continent alone, which we should do for national security reasons, if Trump doesn’t f-ck it up with his f-cked up tariffs.
Paul Montagu (f93fe0) — 3/22/2025 @ 12:14 pmThe 64,000 page JFK assassination document dump appears to be a big nothing burger as far as adding anything additional facts as to “who killed Kennedy” but it did reveal CIA spycraft.
Oh, and the names, Social Security numbers, and other personal details of approximately 400 still living persons who worked on House and Senate Assassination Committees and others:
The Trump Administration is now barring the door after the horse has left the barn:
When Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt said that “President Trump delivered on his promise of maximum transparency by fully releasing the files related to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy,” she really meant it.
Rip Murdock (712d21) — 3/22/2025 @ 12:15 pm@paul@82 Smart phones are the worst invention ever for children and teenagers (other than lead paint, lead paint might’ve been more of a problem, but also maybe not). They cause social drama and isolation, learning loss, loss of motor development, anxiety, lack of sleep, self-harm, impulse control problems, and attention issues. I hate them so so much.
There doesn’t seem to be much evidence that they cause brain damage in other ways, though.
Nic (120c94) — 3/22/2025 @ 12:21 pmelectric magneticelectromagnetic radiationYet another seriously debunked idiocy.
Assuming that there is any danger to people from this “radiation”, it would show up in the side of the head that correlates with the handedness of the user. It doesn’t. Nor is brain cancer more prevalent now than it was before cell phones.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/22/2025 @ 12:23 pmWe can get all our oil on this continent alone, which we should do for national security reasons
There is an argument that we should use up all “theirs” first.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/22/2025 @ 12:24 pm“Screaming” occur the alternative (governing) isn’t available due to the filibuster. It’s the inability of Congress to pass legislation by a simple majority that encourages voters to see government as unable to address their problems. Repealing the filibuster rule would allow the Republicans to let Congress debate their proposals and enact them into law. The voters deserve nothing less.
Rip Murdock (f259db) — 3/22/2025 @ 12:25 pmRip Murdock (712d21) — 3/22/2025 @ 12:15 pm
This looks like some more miscompliance.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/22/2025 @ 12:26 pmIndeed, Nic, right call, wrong reason.
Paul Montagu (f93fe0) — 3/22/2025 @ 12:30 pmIf only all of RFK Jr.’s HHS decisions were like that. Jesse Singal, newest Dispatch contributor…
Nah, dog. The last thing we need is another version of the House. The Senate was always supposed to be a more collegial deliberative body to tap the brakes on our more impulsive political reactions.
Paul Montagu (f93fe0) — 3/22/2025 @ 12:33 pmOur US Special Envoy Witkoff is pathetically aping Putinist propaganda about referendums in Russian-occupied Ukraine, which is of course anti-Ukraine and pro-Russian terrorist.
Before Putin’s 2014 invasions, none of Ukraine’s regions wanted to join Russia.
Paul Montagu (f93fe0) — 3/22/2025 @ 12:34 pmI hope the Jeffrey Epstein victims are treated better:
Rip Murdock (f259db) — 3/22/2025 @ 12:39 pmBefore the filibuster rule was adopted, the Senate was just like the House. Its role as the more “collegial deliberative body” ended when the 17th Amendment was adopted. It hamstrings the voters of President X when they fail to see Congress implementing the policies they voted for; and has led to “government by executive order”, which suffers from the same defect that Kevin M alleges would be a problem; that subsequent Congresses would repeal legislation passed by a previous Congresses. As we saw with the Biden Administration, Trump’s previous EOs were swiftly replaced; just as Trump is continuing to do.
Rip Murdock (712d21) — 3/22/2025 @ 12:55 pmHow’s that working out? The Senate isn’t deliberating anything; one or two Senators simply announce that they oppose the legislation and everyone folds, without any debate. At least bring back the talking filibuster.
Rip Murdock (f259db) — 3/22/2025 @ 1:01 pmJust fine. No complaints. I’m copascetic with a higher level of consensus in one of the houses.
Paul Montagu (97a04c) — 3/22/2025 @ 3:31 pmPaul,
I like how Witkoff apparently believed that Putin prayed for Trump, and had a “beautiful” painting of Trump commissioned. America is not in good hands
Dana (980ded) — 3/22/2025 @ 3:40 pmRIP former First Lady Katharine “Kitty” Dukakis (88).
Rip Murdock (f259db) — 3/22/2025 @ 3:41 pmInstead of “consensus”, we have government by fiat, rather than by the Constitution. Glad to you’re ok with that.
Rip Murdock (712d21) — 3/22/2025 @ 3:46 pm@79 The verdict will be appealed. Other groups that are lean mean fighting machines will replace it. As for tesla attacks being organized as the right thinks. Sun Tzu “If you know your enemy and your self” as I do “you not need to fear the outcome of a hundred battles.” “If you know neither” Like the right. “You will always loose.” The resistance is home grown and spontaneous not orchestrated. Musk’s problem is trumpsters don’t buy electric vehicles and liberals who do hate musk and have stopped buying.
asset (31caaa) — 3/22/2025 @ 3:49 pmIf the people will lead the leaders will eventually follow. The left agrees with this. The right does not.
asset (31caaa) — 3/22/2025 @ 3:54 pmVoters didn’t elect Donald Trump to achieve “consensus” or “bipartisanship”; he (and a Republican Congress) were elected to govern and enact his policies.
Come 2028 you’re going to have a lot a disaffected voters who may clean out the Republicans who don’t get with the program and replace them with less “moderate” Republicans.
Rip Murdock (f259db) — 3/22/2025 @ 4:29 pmhttps://townhall.com/columnists/marklewis/2025/03/22/they-wont-condemn-it-because-they-dont-condemn-it-n2654269
If you won’t condemn the attacks it’s because you support them.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 3/22/2025 @ 5:11 pmPresident Trump announces the new Air Force’s Next-Generation Air Dominance (NGAD) fighter jet, the F-47:
It will be at least a decade before the F-47 is operational (if ever). Full scale development of the F-22 Raptor began in 1991 with the first production contract award in 2000; and achieved Full Operational Capability (FOC) in December 2007.
Rip Murdock (f259db) — 3/22/2025 @ 7:11 pmSource for post 106.
Rip Murdock (f259db) — 3/22/2025 @ 7:18 pmI’d like to point out that not once in this thread has NJRob condemned the Tesla attacks. He won’t condemn them because he doesn’t condemn them. This tells me that he wants this domestic terror.
Sad day. Gross stuff from Rob. Maybe one day he’ll stop supporting terrorists.
Nate (31ba48) — 3/22/2025 @ 8:17 pmNo, we have one guy trying to be a fascist, and his supine servile GOP majority is being supine and servile. The third branch of our government is our last line of defense.
Paul Montagu (97a04c) — 3/22/2025 @ 8:27 pmBut thanks to the filibuster, there is also a Senatorial line of defense.
Paul Montagu (97a04c) — 3/22/2025 @ 8:28 pmMore from the amoral Witkoff, who doesn’t view the biggest terrorist of this century as a bad guy. The moral calculus of Putin’s atrocities over the last 37 months is 1+1=2. This is the side of evil, which Trump is on, which is Vance is on, which Witkoff is on, etc.
Paul Montagu (97a04c) — 3/22/2025 @ 8:43 pmOh, and Witkoff is even more of a Putin tongue-bather than Trump, as Patterico reposted.
Paul Montagu (97a04c) — 3/22/2025 @ 8:54 pmMore non-TdA human beings are being made known, such as Andrys, a barber. More names will certainly out.
Paul Montagu (97a04c) — 3/22/2025 @ 9:02 pm@105 Right on! You come for democrats and expect democrats to say “thank you sir may I have another!”
asset (d060d4) — 3/22/2025 @ 9:44 pmBefore the filibuster rule was adopted, the Senate was just like the House.
From your own link, they started with a rule that you couldn’t vote on anything as long as there was still someone wanting to debate.
THEN they came up with the idea of cloture. The Senate was NEVER like the House.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/22/2025 @ 10:25 pmInstead of “consensus”, we have government by fiat, rather than by the Constitution. Glad to you’re ok with that.
That’s because the SC hasn’t slapped that down yet. It wasn’t the filibuster than made that possible, it was my old hobbyhorse, INS v Chadha, making it so that the legislative veto couldn’t prevent runaway regulations.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/22/2025 @ 10:29 pmRip views it a bad thing that a narrow majority can’t ram legislation through. An actual conservative would argue the opposite. Only a radical wants easy lawmaking.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/22/2025 @ 10:30 pmIf you won’t condemn the attacks it’s because you support them.
Back in the day the Democrats filibustered anti-lynching laws. Didn’t want to offend those terrorists either.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/22/2025 @ 10:32 pmNate,
I didn’t think you and asset were peas in a pod. I guess I was wrong.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 3/23/2025 @ 4:39 amRob, the logic of your quote was ridiculous. I thought it was worthwhile to point out that that logic could be just as easily used to make the same conclusion about you.
Nate (31ba48) — 3/23/2025 @ 6:29 amNate, that was Hilarious.
Time123 (c45b00) — 3/23/2025 @ 6:48 amNate,
you haven’t read my precious posts decaying the attacks. But I’m not surprised you’d try and deflect. If it doesn’t hurt Trump most of you don’t care. You’re broken.
NJRob (130108) — 3/23/2025 @ 7:34 amdecrying*
autocorrect sucks. As does this program that disappears posts.
NJRob (130108) — 3/23/2025 @ 7:34 amWitkoff says “this is me not taking sides” while he’s legitimizing that there’s “a view within the country of Russia” that the regions Putin is occupying belong to Russia, and that these “referendums” are somehow legititmate. Get this, there’s a view within the country of Ukraine that Putin is a bad actor and should GTFO.
His passive language that “look, Putin’s been at war for several years” is dishonest, because his invasion is an offensive act of aggression.
He’s also lying that Russia is only seeking those five regions because Putin made clear in his July 2021 essay that all of Ukraine doesn’t exist, but is all Russia, despite centuries of Ukrainian history, language and culture.
There is no “level-setting the facts” here. The guy is aping Vlad Putin’s propaganda like any other Russian troll. WTF. He is with the terrorists, along with his boss. And Shannon Bream at FoxNews is no better. She just sat there and challenged none of what he said.
Paul Montagu (97a04c) — 3/23/2025 @ 8:00 amIt’s not just the bullying of the legal profession that dares confront to Trump and his administration, it’s the malevolence*…
* I’ve been using that word several times lately, because it is what it is. “Fascist” works, too.
Paul Montagu (97a04c) — 3/23/2025 @ 9:23 amJay Nordlinger, NRO…
Paul Montagu (97a04c) — 3/23/2025 @ 10:03 amDoes anyone here /not/ want the ppl who committed acts of vandalism against Tesla caught at prosecuted? I know I do.
Time123 (3dbada) — 3/23/2025 @ 11:09 amPaul, The actions he’s been taking against law firms for successfully advocating for their clients, and against his interests, seem to be inconsistent with a number of constitutional rights or the rule of law in general. The fact that he’s extending this retribution to firms that simply employed someone that did so makes it worse but not surprising.
Few of his supporters care about any principle beyond “we win they lose”, or are willing / able to acknowledge the facts of what he’s doing, so I don’t expect much to change.
It will be interesting to see what this type of extra-judicial retribution looks like when it’s fully normalized.
Time123 (3dbada) — 3/23/2025 @ 11:27 amHilarious to see the same folks decrying Trump’s actions against criminal law firms who were cheering getting Trump’s lawyers disbarred for zealously defending their client.
NJRob (130108) — 3/23/2025 @ 12:57 pmIt will be interesting to see what this type of extra-judicial retribution looks like when it’s fully normalized.
It won’t be. Thuggishness towards lawyers is almost guaranteed to awake the courts. IANAL, but 42 USC 1983 would seem to offer redress against any federal official who carries out these threats.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/23/2025 @ 1:02 pmRob, do you see any meaningful difference between the department proceedings and other disciplinary actions that involve some of Trump‘s lawyers, like Sidney Powell, and what Trump is done? Does the fact that there is no documented criteria bother you? How about the fact that there’s no process? Do any of those things or any of the other significant differences matter to you in anyway?
Do you think a justice system where the executive branch can potentially put a law firm out of business if he doesn’t like the way, they advocate for their clients, when there is nothing specific about their advocacy that violates any rule is a good system?
Time123 (99a6af) — 3/23/2025 @ 1:21 pmKevin, we will see. A consistent theme of modern politics is the erosion of things that stand in the way of the executive branch.
Time123 (99a6af) — 3/23/2025 @ 1:26 pmAlso last two comments were done using voice to text, please forgive me if that causes some odd wording or errors
Time123 (99a6af) — 3/23/2025 @ 1:26 pmWhat crimes did these law firms commit, Rob? Be specific, with links. Try to use facts.
Paul Montagu (97a04c) — 3/23/2025 @ 1:28 pmHere’s a “criminal law firm”, Skadden Arps. Their “crime”? They represented a guy who was smeared by convicted felon Dinesh D’Souza, accusing Mr. Andrews of being one of those “2000 Mules” who “stole” the 2020 election. Turns out the guy had a case, and it was so convincing that he won a legal settlement and Salem Media was forced to retract D’Souza’s lying cinematic screed and apologize.
I remember when Rob favorably cited the zero-credibility hacks at True the Vote.
Paul Montagu (97a04c) — 3/23/2025 @ 1:43 pmI think that was an argument (somewhat dishonest, because it doesn’t prove anything) that Putin should be be expected to be interested in further aggression.
The premise o the question he was asked was Putin was the aggressor (it waa why he should not considered a danger to other countries)
Sammy Finkelman (eb797f) — 3/23/2025 @ 1:50 pmEl Salvador refused to accept two people – one because she was a woman and their prison was only for men, and the other because he had no Venezuelan citizenship.
Sammy Finkelman (eb797f) — 3/23/2025 @ 1:52 pm113. Homan assures us on TV that the people who designated them as members of TdA are experts and they have all kinds of evidence.
I think they may very well go to prison because some will be discovered to be corrupt, in an investigation starting from an supercially unlikely place.
Sammy Finkelman (eb797f) — 3/23/2025 @ 1:59 pmI merely want Congress, as constituted by the voters, to decide whether to implement President Trump’s policies; and not by executive fiat. Given how the Supreme Court generally leans towards expanding executive powers, I wouldn’t count on them dialing back executive authority.
Rip Murdock (712d21) — 3/23/2025 @ 2:07 pmWhether the Republicans have a narrow or large majority, they should not be constrained by the minority from using it. To allow a minority veto is anti-Constitutional to block the majority party from exercising their rights to govern.
Rip Murdock (f259db) — 3/23/2025 @ 2:17 pm@rip@140 That was actually kind of the point of the Senate. It’s precisely Constitutional.
Nic (120c94) — 3/23/2025 @ 2:31 pmSammy, she asked “why are you convinced that he won’t press further”, and he replied with the passive “he’s been at war for several years” and then he lied with “in large part been about those five regions” (Putin was repulsed in other regions–Kyiv, Kherson, Kharkiv–in his attempt to take over the whole goddam country), and continued with one lie after the next.
He lied about the five regions with “it’s in his speeches”, because Putin has been clear that he seeks the whole goddam country.
Regarding Witkoff’s slimy comment about “a view within the country of Russia”, Patterico has a fair response to that…
And then there was this…
Putin’s actions couldn’t be more black-and-white. Sure, we’ve heard more than plenty from Putin about his “grievances”, but none of them are legitimate, yet Witkoff is playing this stupid equivalency game, as if Putin’s complaints should be taken just as seriously as the victim’s, the ones fighting for their very right to exist.
Witkoff is dishonestly implying that Putin “only” wants to take Ukraine and that this is fine because there are Russians who harbour ahistorical and revanchist “views.” It’s pure Russian propaganda, sock-puppeted by an American who reports directly to the president.
He also dishonestly parsed his answer with “I don’t see that he wants to take all of Europe.” The issue isn’t about “all of Europe”, it’s about Putin taking any of Europe, especially now that Trump said he wouldn’t defend NATO members who “didn’t pay their bills”.
JFCOAFPS, we already know that Putin wants to bring the band back together, and that includes Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia, the Baltic states, Poland, etc.
Witkoff is acting as Putin’s enabler, saying “I take him at his word”.
This was one of the most disingenuous dishonest interviews I’ve seen, all in favor of the Greater Evil and against our pre-Trump American values.
Paul Montagu (97a04c) — 3/23/2025 @ 2:32 pmImplausible deniability:
Someone on Trump’s staff must have used the autopen.
Rip Murdock (f259db) — 3/23/2025 @ 2:40 pmAs I pointed out above, the deliberative role of the Senate ended with the enactment of the 17th Amendment, with the Senate then becoming just like the House. The filibuster is constitutional only to the extent that the Constitution allows each branch to establish its own rules. Outside of that, there is nothing in the Constitution that allows a minority veto. The Constitution assumes that majorities will be allowed to govern.
Rip Murdock (f259db) — 3/23/2025 @ 2:47 pmUnder what part of Article I of the Constitution (outside of Sec. 5, Clause 2)?
Rip Murdock (f259db) — 3/23/2025 @ 3:02 pm@Rip@144 It wasn’t the deliberative notion of the senate, it was that each state was given 2 senators regardless of population, which meant that the smaller states wouldn’t be overwhelmed by the more populous states, which is kind of anti-democratic, but precisely constitutional. The point of the senate was to help protect the rights of the minority. (it also means currently that senators needed to take a broader view than the house members because they were answerable to the entire state over a longer period of time and not just their own community in the moment).
Nic (120c94) — 3/23/2025 @ 3:07 pmA small bit of good news: Duke’s starting center is from South Sudan.
Khaman Malauch, a freshman, is 7’2″. Good luck to him, and to his troubled nation, which needs all the successes it can get.
(If you haven’t read Francis Bok’s “Escape From Slavery”, you ought to.)
Jim Miller (dc824b) — 3/23/2025 @ 3:43 pmWhich again was replaced by the direct election of the Senate when the 17 Amendment was enacted.
Rip Murdock (712d21) — 3/23/2025 @ 4:16 pmKevin, we will see. A consistent theme of modern politics is the erosion of things that stand in the way of the executive branch.
Not just modern. Every president has pushed the envelope, starting with Washington and the Whiskey Rebellion. Jefferson and the Purchase, Jackson and the Cherokee, etc. In more recent times, FDR was no slouch either. Ike used troops to enforce civil rights.
I think the modern trend started when Obama claimed he had the power to override a inactive Congress with the stroke of a pen, and since then it’s been all EOs. The courts first pushed back on Trump I, because Trump, then against Biden because Biden was stupid about it, saying something was unconstitutional before he did it.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/23/2025 @ 4:28 pmWe still have 2 senators from each state, which means that the populous states can’t overrun the non-populous states and the Senators still have to consider state-wide over time and not their own community in the moment.
Nic (120c94) — 3/23/2025 @ 4:28 pmThe 17th Amendment didn’t ruin anything. It made the Senate responsive to the voters instead of to the vested interests in the legislature.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/23/2025 @ 4:30 pmThe Liquidator:
Rip Murdock (f259db) — 3/23/2025 @ 4:36 pmWhether the Republicans have a narrow or large majority, they should not be constrained by the minority from using it. To allow a minority veto is anti-Constitutional to block the majority party from exercising their rights to govern.
There needs to be a balance between the majority’s right to govern and the minority’s right to be heard and have their views considered. Or as Robert’s Rules puts it, rules
The Senate started as a purely deliberative body, where no vote was taken until all members who wished to be hear were done speaking. Eventually a tactic of delay developed and the concept of “cloture” was adopted to mitigate that, somewhere in the 1830s after the uniparty collapsed under Jackson.
At no point in the Senate’s history has the chair been able to force a vote, and the number for cloture was 2/3rds until the 1960s. It is interesting that the threshold was reduced to 60% via a 2/3rds vote to amend the Rules. Those were the days.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/23/2025 @ 4:42 pmit was that each state was given 2 senators regardless of population
BTW, this is the only thing in the Constitution that is not now subject to amendment.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/23/2025 @ 4:44 pmThe 17th Amendment (for good or ill) broke the bonds between the states and the national government. There is no evidence that Senators “still have to consider state-wide over time and not their own community in the moment,” unless you can provide an example. The Senate is just as partisan as the House, and the filibuster disenfranchises those voters who thought they were electing a Senate to enact the President’s program.
Eliminate the filibuster, and you would end government by executive order. Needless to say, the current pro-executive authority Supreme Court will not rein in the President’s inherent power.
In the House and Senate, the minority has the right to be heard and have their views considered, followed by a vote. They may even convince some to change their vote. But in the Senate that debate can’t occur (except for the most benign issues) because the filibuster allows the minority to shut down any debate completely.
Rip Murdock (f259db) — 3/23/2025 @ 5:07 pmbecause the filibuster allows the minority to shut down any debate completely.
The filibuster shuts down nothing. The desire of the majority to only debate things that have gained cloture is what shuts down debate.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/23/2025 @ 5:34 pm@Rip@155 They do if they want to get re-elected. Lets take NE for example. The Omaha and Lincoln areas are getting more liberal, but the rest of the state is staying pretty conservative. Now, lets say you are a Senator from Nebraska. There aren’t enough people in NE to disregard the voters in Douglas and Sarpy counties (the Omaha area) or Lancaster Co (Lincoln, UNL) but there aren’t enough people in Douglas, Sarpy, and Lancaster counties to disregard the rest of the state. Ben Nelson (D) was a NE senator not that long ago. This means that NE senators sometimes have somewhat inconsistent position records. See Ben Sasse.
Nic (120c94) — 3/23/2025 @ 5:47 pmNebraska is an anomaly. Try Alabama or Texas.
Rip Murdock (f259db) — 3/23/2025 @ 6:13 pmHuh? Only bills that have gained cloture are debatable. Beyond that, everything else is blocked by the minority by merely threatening to invoke a filibuster.
Rip Murdock (f259db) — 3/23/2025 @ 6:17 pmNic & Kevin M:
It’s been a great (civil) discussion, which is an increasing rarity here; but I think we’ve said everything that can be said. But I think we’re done with it for now (until I bring it up again.). 😉
Rip Murdock (f259db) — 3/23/2025 @ 6:23 pm@Rip@158 You asked for evidence, I gave it to you. I don’t know enough about the specific politics of Alabama or Texas to granulate it for you.
Nic (120c94) — 3/23/2025 @ 6:24 pm@Rip@160 Sure thing. Nice talking to you!
Nic (120c94) — 3/23/2025 @ 6:25 pm2026/2028 is coming. Virginia 2025. As the kleons say revenge is a dish best eaten cold.
asset (d0cc5a) — 3/23/2025 @ 8:21 pmI try to pretend to be angry with trump when in fact he is doing us leftys a favor discrediting the dnc and the corporate establishment donor class stooges running the democrat party. Chucky schumer has now got moderates democrats so angry who don’t even like AOC asking her to primary chuck! AOC just drew a crowd of 40,000 to hear her speak in colorado.
asset (d0cc5a) — 3/23/2025 @ 8:29 pmHuh? Only bills that have gained cloture are debatable. Beyond that, everything else is blocked by the minority by merely threatening to invoke a filibuster.
Cloture:
Bills are often brought to the floor of the Senate for debate before cloture is moved. The modern filibuster is simply defeating the cloture motion. If it passes, debate is limited to a fixed further period (depending on the subject matter, nominations are a few hours).
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/23/2025 @ 10:20 pmNow, as it happens, the Senate majority leader may wish to withdraw a bill from the floor if cloture fails and move on tho more productive matters. HE may also wish to invoke cloture soon after a bill goes to the floor. But that does not mean that cloture opens debate; if a matter is important enough there may be several hours or days of debate before cloture is moved.
Cloture mainly starts a clock on the final vote by limiting further debate.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/23/2025 @ 10:26 pmI should point out that, while IANAL, I am an experienced parliamentarian and chair for annual general meetings and am pretty good at parliamentary procedure.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/23/2025 @ 10:28 pmMore Witkoff. Even after admitting he was “duped” by Hamas, he still claimed that “we would be amenable to a reach out from Hamas”. This is the same Witkoff who said about Putin, that “I take him at his word”.
Witkoff was negotiating with Hamas terrorists affiliated with the Iranian terrorist regime, who are affiliated with the Russian terrorist regime. Sigh.
Paul Montagu (97a04c) — 3/23/2025 @ 10:32 pmRIP, Mia Love, 49. Former Black Republican congresswoman. Glioblastoma.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/23/2025 @ 11:33 pmJim Geraghty on Witkoff, duped by Hamas, parrot of Putin.
People who aren’t duped would know that the only resolution to the Israel-Hamas war is the return of all the hostages, followed by death of Hamas, or vice versa.
Paul Montagu (97a04c) — 3/24/2025 @ 7:17 amThe Loser has made nuclear proliferation nearly certain, and nuclear war more likely. Now, he is weakening our defenses against other threats:
Which is just what Kin, the Mullahs, “Czar” Putin, and “Emperor Xi want.
Jim Miller (622467) — 3/24/2025 @ 7:35 amKim, of course, not Kin.
Jim Miller (622467) — 3/24/2025 @ 7:36 amFor some time I thought we should understand that Iran has been in a low-level war with us since the overthrow of the Shah, mostly fought by their proxies.
Responding to these attacks requires skill and long-term thinking. Unfortunately, I don’t see any elected leaders who can plan such a strategy. (Obama was not wrong to try to negotiate peace with the Mullahs; he was wrong not to recognize he had failed.)
Jim Miller (622467) — 3/24/2025 @ 7:51 amDo you follow the Senate rules on debates? If not, then your claim is a non-sequitur.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/24/2025 @ 9:02 amDo you follow the Senate rules on debates? If not, then your claim is a non-sequitur.
All these rules have the same purposes and follow the same logic.
And your claim is just WRONG.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/24/2025 @ 9:05 amWhich is just what Kim, the Mullahs, “Czar” Putin, and “Emperor Xi want.
There are times when I think that Putin and Xi will do things to make Trump look good. Maybe Putin will give unexpectedly on Ukraine, or Xi on trade. Why? Because they want the USA to join their Evil League of Evil.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/24/2025 @ 9:07 amResponding to these attacks requires skill and long-term thinking. Unfortunately, I don’t see any elected leaders who can plan such a strategy.
For a while we attempted to use Saddam to contain Iran, but he attacked our allies instead and created a haven for Sunni terrorists. W tried to foster a democratic Iraq, but failed. Obama threw in the towel on Iraq and cozied up to the Mullahs. Trump and Biden were incapable of long-term thinking, for differing reasons.
The best chance to contain proliferation was in the 90’s when Clinton was poised to smash NK’s nuclear program. That would have turned nuclear development into an existential danger to the country attempting it, rather than a national security enhancement.
There is still some opportunity to do that with Iran, but it would be bloody now.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/24/2025 @ 9:17 amAn appeal to self-authority is a new one.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/24/2025 @ 9:19 amAn appeal to self-authority is a new one.
Hardly, you appeal to being a lawyer … oh, wait … What are YOU appealing to?
So far I have seen nothing whatsoever. Maybe a link to you assertion that “cloture” means “opens debate” — any dictionary will do.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/24/2025 @ 9:24 amI’ve never said I was lawyer; but I can read the Constitution and court rulings and understand what they say.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/24/2025 @ 9:29 amBut really, Rip, dealing with running week-long AGMs of 200 very opinionated people gives me some IRL experience on procedure. Admittedly, Robert’s Rules are based on 1900-era House rules, but limiting debate is a pretty common motion in all such bodies.
I will also, from time to time, refer to my experience on engineering, programming, logic design, digital signal processing, and physics. What experience do you draw from?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/24/2025 @ 9:30 amI’ve never said I was lawyer; but I can read the Constitution and court rulings and understand what they say.
Assumes facts not in evidence.
😆
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/24/2025 @ 9:33 amWorking at DOD; serving as congressional liaison from DOD; and as an senior analyst at various think tanks.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/24/2025 @ 9:55 amAnd yet we both pontificate beyond our areas of expertise. The difference is that I back up my arguments with linked sources.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/24/2025 @ 10:02 amThe difference is that I back up my arguments with linked sources.
And your source for claiming that a motion to limit debate is the same as a motion to open debate on some level other than as-applied?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/24/2025 @ 10:08 amThis is, however, the place for pontification.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/24/2025 @ 10:09 amDifferent matter:
Apparently, immigration advocates are suing Trump (in San Francisco district court, or course) because he is attempting to dial back the TPS (Temporary Protected Status) program and undo last-minute extensions by Biden.
I’m not sure what they are asking, though. Is it an order to make the protected status not temporary, or to order Trump use his discretion differently?
I have no particular argument with TPS wrt Venezuela, but I do think that if one bases programs on presidential discretion, one should have to accept the results.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/24/2025 @ 10:14 amAs I said last night when I thanked Nic and yourself for a civil discussion on the filibuster, I intended to end this debate for the time being, and I am keeping my word.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/24/2025 @ 10:17 amPontification without regard to actual facts is just being a blowhard.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/24/2025 @ 10:39 am“You might think that. I couldn’t possibly comment.”
— Francis Urquhart
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/24/2025 @ 10:58 am2nd news item:
1) How did they find that many Democrats in Wyoming?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/24/2025 @ 11:02 am2) Twitter feed from #Resist — just another patriotic American resisting Trump’s attacks on our rights! I’m sure he’d do the same if it was AOC’s Executive Orders.
It would be funny if Cheney runs and wins in the mid-terms. I’d send her money, if only so that Democrats would realize she’s not so cuddly.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/24/2025 @ 11:03 am
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/24/2025 @ 11:07 am🤣🤣
Now that is funny!
Comedy Gold!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/24/2025 @ 11:20 amRejected:
The Nevada Supreme Court ruled that the district court’s analysis under the state’s anti-SLAPP law was correct:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/24/2025 @ 11:30 amIt could be that trying to create something like this – or possibly a copy to a hacked place – might have been the motive by someone to give Elon Musk a briefing on U.S. war plans with regard to China. (there could be a Chinese spy in he Pentagon, or a hacked account. Even though Elon Musk’s briefing would be oral, to produce it, a lot of material would be made available to accounts that norma;ly wouldn’t see it.)
Of course, there never is just one war plan, and it might even be an idea to give China a lot to think about. *
This was something different. Evidently a forum used for one purpose was later used for another purpose. Too much trouble to enter the participants all over again.
—————-
* (Leaving some details out, and creating some uncertainty.)
The same forces or ships might be used in different plans and China would need to prepare for all of them. It could enhance deterrence.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/24/2025 @ 12:29 pmKevin M (a9545f) — 3/24/2025 @ 11:02 am
There are always a few, and they might belong to some organization.
Even though they are dwindling:
https://apnews.com/article/wyoming-primary-democrats-switching-registration-republicans-5954c50500556a36f6664cc0bce2a6d6
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/24/2025 @ 12:44 pmKevin M @187. They are suing to leave the extension of TPS by the Biden Administration unchanged.
Both on procedural grounds and with an allegation of racial discrimination (although I don’t see how that can apply)
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/24/2025 @ 12:51 pmElon Musk is the Chinese spy.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/24/2025 @ 12:53 pmMore on the Jeffrey Goldberg Signal chat bombshell:
At the very least they should have invited someone from Fox News.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/24/2025 @ 1:03 pmHamas was wiling to consider the type of arrangement that Hezbollah used to have in Lebanon, or a “unity” government or a government of technicians, but they never backed down from continuing to have a military presence.
Witkoff seems to be following a formula for reaching agreement, and even so he has to change Hamas’s demands for that formula to work.
Also a problem is that Hamas members and leaders have no place to go. He could work on that. Iran doesn’t want them to surrender. They can’t give up all the hostages – their lives depend on holding some, although keeping them won’t guarantee their lives either. Israel has offered money and a promise they won’t later kill anyone who surrenders any hostage, but this is evidently not practical for anyone to do.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/24/2025 @ 1:05 pmHe’s Trumpier than Trump. (more “America First.”
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/24/2025 @ 1:07 pmTrump appointed Alina Habba to be the US attorney for New Jersey. 🤣
Time (99a6af) — 3/24/2025 @ 1:09 pmThey put the editor of the Atlantic in a secure chat. 🤣🤣
Props to him for not jeopardizing the mission by publishing the details early.
Time (99a6af) — 3/24/2025 @ 1:10 pmMaybe selecting the SecDef because for how good he looks on TV wasn’t the /best/ idea.
Time (8ec6db) — 3/24/2025 @ 1:11 pmRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/24/2025 @ 12:53 pm
More likely, someone working for him (who could have requested the briefing) or someone at the Pentagon, or a bot.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/24/2025 @ 1:11 pmLooks like rob provided a living example of my claim that most Trump supporters wouldn’t /couldnt acknowledge what trump was doing.
Time (99a6af) — 3/24/2025 @ 1:12 pmOccam’s Razor says “when faced with multiple explanations for a phenomenon, the simplest one is usually the most likely to be correct.” What makes you speculation more correct than th obvious answer?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/24/2025 @ 1:17 pmTrump and the Trump people seem to be fond of using arguments that make sense only if a person is not fully informed.
They are counting on people not being able to quickly check it out more than superficially.
https://www.wsj.com/opinion/kari-lake-isnt-telling-the-truth-about-voas-new-building-lease-taxpayer-savings-7dcdb17e
The only thing true seems to be some facts about the lease itself. They needed a new place. They got a bargain. (The furniture was thrown in for free)
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/24/2025 @ 1:26 pmEven more details from the Signal meeting involving The Atlantic’s Jeffrey Goldberg:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/24/2025 @ 1:28 pmStriking Houthi terrorist targets: Good call, long overdue, keep it going.
Using a commercial app to discuss an upcoming military strike: Dumb, reckless, illegal.
This was a national security breach, a big one, led by none other than Mike Waltz. Nobody questioned who this “JG” was, but Greenberg heard the whole thing until the missiles hit Sanaa. I wouldn’t be surprised if initials like VP, KJU or XJ were in on the conversation.
I can see why these right-wing misfits did this, because they preferred the convenience of cell phones to plot an attack on foreign soil rather than taking a little extra effort to communicate sensitive intelligence in a SCIF, and this is the price we pay for having unqualified characters whose FBI checks were waived.
Related, Zeihan has a good segment on how “governmental efficiency” isn’t going to happen in this administration, thanks to DOGE and Trump’s dumb directives.
Paul Montagu (97a04c) — 3/24/2025 @ 1:30 pmRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/24/2025 @ 1:17 pm
Occam’s Razor says that Elon Musk is not a Chinese spy. But it could be someone where it mattered more to him than Elon Musk.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/24/2025 @ 1:30 pmMike Waltz wouldn’t be that dumb to add KJU or XJ to the chat and neither of them is fluent in English so that’s not even rhetorically plausible
At the beginning it probably did not discuss very sensitive matters – he may have wanted to forward something to Jeffrey Goldberg and didn’t realize he would be included on everything that subsequently was discussed in that thread and/or that thread would continue ..and get deeper and deeper into military details.
Luckily, most established news people can be trusted.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/24/2025 @ 1:40 pmProblems with Elon Musk’s cost cutting at the National Institute of Health:
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/24/health/nih-doge-trump.html?unlocked_article_code=1.6U4.Rz57.5DA3EC7P82rR&smid=url-share
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/24/2025 @ 1:44 pmSammy, the whole point of the chat–of inviting these participants–was to discuss an imminent missile attack on foreign soil. It’s hard to have more of a top-secret conversation this side of a nuclear attack or full-scale invasion.
Paul Montagu (97a04c) — 3/24/2025 @ 1:47 pmThis kind of cockup is inexcusable.
Some migrants were deported to less terrible conditions in Panama. Although that also seems to have been wrong.
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/23/world/americas/migrants-panama-trump-stranded.html
I think they did not ask for asylum. They did not know maybe that they needed to ask because the Trump Administration stopped the Biden policy of asking leading questions. (partially from some other sources)
Three needed medical attention – one for HIV, one ran out of insulin and one had seizures.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/24/2025 @ 1:56 pmGiven his investments in China and friendliness with the Chinese leadership, it certainly does. Even Trump agrees he is “susceptible” to Chinese influence.
Musk has 1.6 billion reasons ((the amount he received from the Chinese government (I mean banks)) to finance the gigafactory) to support China, both overtly and covertly.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/24/2025 @ 2:00 pmPure speculation without any facts.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/24/2025 @ 2:01 pm#211
Insights coming from VP might easily be mistaken as those coming from JD Vance. There’s no way to distinguish the content.
In all seriousness, the use of Signal was an attempt to escape oversight and FOIA and those annoying security rules. (See also, Hillary Clinton.) I don’t know how or why Goldberg’s name got attached to the thread. Both the use of Signal and the goof should be the subject of real Congressional hearings. With any other administration, it would be. With this one…nah. They are too busy impeaching judges.
Appalled (e7d5f2) — 3/24/2025 @ 2:01 pmThat’s what it sounded like what the Atlantic said at first, but actually the thread went back two weeks. (I read somewhere. Maybe JG had access to the whole thread.)
Here I have it a day or two before
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jeffrey-goldberg-the-atlantic-trump-officials-group-chat-signal In his piece, Goldberg said he received a connection request on Signal on March 11 from a user with the name “Mike Waltz” without explanation. On March 13, Goldberg said he was added to a group chat in Signal titled “Houthi PC small group,” which he took to be a reference to a “principals committee,” or group of high-ranking officials.
The chat included a total of 18 people, including those who appeared to be Vice President JD Vance, Secretary of State Marco Rubio, Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard, Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent and CIA Director John Ratcliffe, according to Goldberg.
Goldberg wrote that he was initially skeptical of the authenticity of the group, saying he believed it could have been “part of a disinformation campaign” or an effort to embarrass journalists.
“I had very strong doubts that this text group was real, because I could not believe that the national-security leadership of the United States would communicate on Signal about imminent war plans,” Goldberg wrote.
…On March 14, the officials in the Signal chat debated the timing of an operation to target the group, according to Goldberg. The account with the name “JD Vance” expressed concern that taking action against the Houthis would primarily benefit Europe at a time when Mr. Trump has been pressuring European allies to do more to provide for their own security….
….On Saturday, March 15, Hegseth posted an update and others responded in texts that Goldberg said he would not publish because “the information contained in them, if they had been read by an adversary of the United States, could conceivably have been used to harm American military and intelligence personnel, particularly in the broader Middle East, Central Command’s area of responsibility.”
,,,,”What I will say, in order to illustrate the shocking recklessness of this Signal conversation, is that the Hegseth post contained operational details of forthcoming strikes on Yemen, including information about targets, weapons the U.S. would be deploying, and attack sequencing,” Goldberg wrote.
Goldberg said Hegseth told the group that the strikes against the Houthis would commence at 1:45 p.m. ET.
“So I waited in my car in a supermarket parking lot. If this Signal chat was real, I reasoned, Houthi targets would soon be bombed. At about 1:55, I checked X and searched Yemen. Explosions were then being heard across Sanaa, the capital city,” he wrote.
He said he checked the Signal chat and found a string of congratulatory messages from Waltz and others:
….The Signal chat group, I concluded, was almost certainly real. Having come to this realization, one that seemed nearly impossible only hours before, I removed myself from the Signal group, understanding that this would trigger an automatic notification to the group’s creator, ‘Michael Waltz,’ that I had left,” Goldberg continued. “No one in the chat had seemed to notice that I was there. And I received no subsequent questions about why I left — or, more to the point, who I was.”
At 2:29 p.m., Mr. Trump posted a message on Truth Social announcing the attack…
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/24/2025 @ 2:12 pmThere was no account that said it was VP. The account said it “JD Vance”
VP was just used here @211 by Paul Montague in an argument.
KJU stands for Kim Jong Un and XJ would be Xi Jinping.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/24/2025 @ 2:18 pmI don’t think that Hillary Clinton merely wanted to avoid FOIA (incidentally, her private email – secure against subpoenas as well – substituted for the State Departments unclassified system, although it was impossible to keep classified information out – from her “unclassified email as well as that of everyone else’s.)
Hillary Clinton did not have an official satte.gov account at all. although when sending email to the White House she pretended she did by sending a copy to a dummy email address. She was supposed to copy any official email where for some reason she had used her personal account.
I think Hillary Clinton aimed to leave no traces of anything she did, and probably used it as a precaution so that nobody could send evidence any criminal acts to her state.gov account. They couldn’t since she had none.
She probably gave away secrets in person or by phone. Or by fax.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/24/2025 @ 2:28 pmRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/24/2025 @ 2:01 pm
Occam’s razor.
The thread started out entitled “Houthi PC small group.”
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/24/2025 @ 2:30 pmMore about Musk and China:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/24/2025 @ 2:31 pmAt the very least Musk should register as a foreign agent of China.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/24/2025 @ 2:00 pm
He had reasons to appear not to oppose China, but no reason to make it more powerful. Or invest more money in it where it could be grabbed.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/24/2025 @ 2:32 pm#221
I got what Paul was saying. I was adding a obviously too-deadpan joke.
Appalled (e7d5f2) — 3/24/2025 @ 2:35 pmIn “Houthi PC small group.” PC could stand for “Principals Committee”
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/24/2025 @ 2:35 pmYour point? PC stands for “principals committee,” which includes cabinet officials, White House national security staff, the Vice President, and senior military officials, not an editor of The Atlantic.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/24/2025 @ 2:36 pmA letter to the WSJ says that Azerbaijan in engaged in double dealing
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/24/2025 @ 2:42 pmOur government has been robbing us blind and enriching themselves and their friends in the process.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 3/24/2025 @ 4:40 pmHuh, let’s just believe this, because they’ve never lied about DOGE cuts before, nope, none.
Well except for every one they’ve publicized, $8 Billion, oopsie million, already paid $6M, so cancelling actually saved .025% of claimed $8B. And then there’s those trans mice, I mean, really what’s the difference between two words, other than the spelling, and meaning.
But nah, stupid Hitler is always right, always, it’s just raining on your leg.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 3/24/2025 @ 5:26 pmKlink, 600k for something dumb is completely believable. I’m glad it got canceled. Even if Rob’s not representing it accurately/fairly (and I’m not accusing him of
Time (c45b00) — 3/24/2025 @ 7:55 pmThat) it’s probably not a great use of public funds.
Given all the fuss today, guess who resigned! Louis DeJoy, that’s who. The guy who Trump I brought in to remake the USPS into a package delivery service 5 years ago, and who has succeeded admirably, is now forced out in favor of those who want to take it private.
Considering that it is now faster, cheaper and more reliable than its competition in package delivery, I fear the worst. Yes, they cut out a lot of the smaller sorting facilities and simplified logistics, but LeJoy was a shipping professional and seems to have known what he was doing.
I doubt the ideological theorists that Musk attracts will fail to break it.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/24/2025 @ 7:56 pmRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/24/2025 @ 2:31 pm
I suspect that Musk is a piker wrt China and the Biden administration invested more.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/24/2025 @ 7:58 pmIn all seriousness, the use of Signal was an attempt to escape oversight and FOIA and those annoying security rules
Hardly. It was for ease of use. We are used to having communications in our hands everywhere we go, but actual secure SCIFs don’t work like that, and even less-secure government messaging systems are hard to use and non-portable.
My problem isn’t with the use of Signal, but the way that high side content went low side. (And the utter fecklessness of no knowing who was on the line.)
I expect that this will cause new policy to be developed to accommodate cell phones because the present rules have become unworkable.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/24/2025 @ 8:05 pmI don’t think that this has the level of nonchalance you are projecting. That they broke ALL security regulations and many laws just because they’re lazy is worse, not better. Like with Kennedy saying that it isn’t the end of the world, well, not this time at least, but if they’re doing it for this, do you thing this is the upper or lower limit
Yeah, all you have to do is literally tap on the group name, then tap on the name, and it tells you their info.
The US issues a specific Android secure phone you can use to “chat” with approved individuals with approved applications. Signal is not one. This isn’t new, this has been true for a decade. In fact, even for non secret government messaging, you still can’t use Signal, even if you’re the ranger at Jellystone, and you don’t have information relevant to an actual kill chain that is happening in realtime either.
It’s also hilarious that Hegseth was on TV telling people it didn’t happen, when both his spokesperson, the White House, and several of the others admitted it. I’m sure it wasn’t because the SECDEF was drunk, we’ve never heard of him being drunk at work doing stupid stuff. I mean, not in the last couple of days, well, today. So great, he almost went 9 weeks…in public, or not, the excuse of being drunk doesn’t make it OK.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 3/24/2025 @ 8:24 pmSo looking into that farming grant, it looks like it was for a class in the economics of urban or smaller farming meant for young or beginning farmers. It wasn’t limited to minority farmers or gay farmers or trans farmers, the program seems to have been open to anyone interested. I am not against teaching people interested in farming how to earn a living at farming.
Nic (120c94) — 3/24/2025 @ 8:39 pmYou mean the group “people” includes trans/gay/brown/vagina owning folks too?
Nope, if there’s one of the gay, they’re all the gay, so all the money was for the gay.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 3/24/2025 @ 8:57 pmJust because it wasn’t true this time…or that other time, or the other time.
The next true thing that they claim will be the first.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 3/24/2025 @ 8:59 pm@klink@238 Seems like.
Nic (120c94) — 3/24/2025 @ 9:07 pmIt’s not as corrupt as Trump selling his “unlivable” Palm Beach mansion in pre-financial meltdown July 2008 for $95 million to a Russian oligarch (which later sold for way less a decade later), but VP Hamel just sold his DC home to a “government contractor and lobbyist” for $172k above asking. The lucky buyer has received $179 million in contracts from DoD and DHS.
Paul Montagu (97a04c) — 3/25/2025 @ 5:11 amNic and Klink, I’m not surprised that Rob may have misrepresented the situation. He does that frequently. But even on its face this isn’t a great use of public funds.
We have a budget deficit. This 600K is a drop in the bucket to the total problem. But even so, paying 2-8 ppl (Rought estimate on may part) in NY and California to provide instruction in farming seems like a thing we maybe can’t afford right now and I have no problem ending the contracts, provided the contracts were ended in an ethical way.
Time (bf9676) — 3/25/2025 @ 6:09 amBTW, if you have T-Mobile and like baseball, T-Life is offering a free MLB streaming subscription again this year. Today through the end of the month. $149 normally.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/25/2025 @ 6:57 amI don’t think that this has the level of nonchalance you are projecting. That they broke ALL security regulations and many laws just because they’re lazy is worse, not better.
What I’m saying is that the draw was being able to keep in contact IRL, not just wired to a SCIF. The lack of recording was an incidental draw, and really, if it had been Signal keeping a recording that would have been worse than no recording.
The US issues a specific Android secure phone you can use to “chat” with approved individuals with approved applications. Signal is not one.
I remember back in 2020 being told not to use Zoom for discussing a non-classified government project. WebEx they said. Not as easy to work with.
I’m sure it wasn’t because the SECDEF was drunk
Give it a day or two and he’ll be in rehab.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/25/2025 @ 7:07 amI’m sure it wasn’t because the SECDEF was drunk
He texted operational details (probably wholesale from a file) at the same time as it was being sent to other people all over the world.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/25/2025 @ 1:39 pmKevin M (a9545f) — 3/24/2025 @ 7:56 pm
Isn’t he appointed by a board that does not repot to the president?
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/25/2025 @ 1:42 pmThe thread was not about operational details.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/25/2025 @ 1:43 pm@time@242 I think talking about whether or not we think the feds should be giving grants for classes and/or whether we are getting a good ROI on the classes or are reducing asset drain by having them is a legitimate discussion. Pointing at it and yelling that BadWrong people were getting money is a misleading culturewar hissyfit.
Nic (120c94) — 3/25/2025 @ 4:53 pmNick, you’re 100% correct. But I’ve since given up that any of my policy preferences will be accomplished for something that looks like a good reason. Incoherent ran at the other and weird identity. Politics are the things that might get there. So I’ll take what I can get.
Time (99a6af) — 3/25/2025 @ 5:12 pmSometimes I’d rather have bad policy for the right reasons than decent policy for the wrong ones. If the reasons are right, I sometimes hope we might get better policy over the long term. If the reasons are wrong, I fear that policy will just get continually worse.
Nic (120c94) — 3/25/2025 @ 5:37 pmIt’s like how to get rid of a terrible law: Enforce it ruthlessly. If you ignore it, or only use it sometimes, it never goes away. Arrest and prosecute everyone who tears off a mattress tag; that kind of thing.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/25/2025 @ 5:46 pmhttps://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2025/03/24/agriculture_secretary_canceling_federal_funding_for_educating_transgender_and_queer_farmers_on_food_justice.html
I am directly quoting people. It’s a direct insult and violation of the ToS to claim I’m being dishonest when it’s factually incorrect
I don’t see Nic providing any evidence other than her opinion.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 3/25/2025 @ 5:54 pmBecause it’s true…that your quoting a liar lying and you know that. So in your head that might mean you aren’t lying, but then you’re still lying to yourself…and everyone else.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 3/25/2025 @ 6:22 pmFacts not in evidence for 100 Alex.
Klink, your assertion is not evidence .
NJRob (eb56c3) — 3/25/2025 @ 6:24 pmOh, the irony.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 3/25/2025 @ 6:26 pm@NJRob@252 Your links are consistently bad. Sometimes the headline doesn’t match the information in the story and you seem to have only read the headline. Sometimes you link an editorial piece that opines but doesn’t address facts. Sometimes you link to pieces that aren’t honest about the facts. Every now and then you present a link that is consistent with what you say it is, which is why I keep following them to check, but mostly your links just aren’t.
Here’s the grant summary:
CFPCFP Mandatory Funded Projects
Agroecology Commons, CA $397,914
Here’s link: USDA documentation Bottom of pg 7, top of pg 8.
Actually the are some interesting programs in there.
Nic (120c94) — 3/25/2025 @ 7:58 pmThere are a lot of racist programs in there and mission statements that are clearly meant to obscure what they do.
You also haven’t shown that those are the same programs that were canceled.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 3/26/2025 @ 3:44 amhttps://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/from-food-justice-to-useless-surveys-trump-s-cabinet-reveals-nonsensical-contracts-it-has-canceled/ar-AA1Bz7LU
More waste, fraud and graft.
It’s amazing how many want to keep the fraud train going just because of who is trying to stop it.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 3/26/2025 @ 3:47 amNJRob, they appear to be he programs you were referring to….if they’re not can you please specify what programs you meant?
Time (c45b00) — 3/26/2025 @ 5:42 amThe numbers don’t match . I linked to the actual articles in question.
NJRob (a3f796) — 3/26/2025 @ 6:42 amMost of you will like this Ramirez cartoon.
Jim Miller (915765) — 3/26/2025 @ 6:58 amThe article you liked rounded everything to the hundreds of thousands and didn’t provide details to exactly what program they’re talking about.
This is pointless. As usual your claims are baseless
Time (c45b00) — 3/26/2025 @ 7:34 amAnd exaggerated and you’re unable to back them up or admit it.
I’m going to (somewhat) side with Rob here.
I think there was a focus put in during the Biden administration on awarding grants that supported DEI. My understanding is that grant writers were asked how their research (etc) would promote DEI. This led to grant writers often kind of BSing in some DEI language even on things that were completely unrelated to DEI.
So now in this administration they are going through grants and saying “Ahah! Here is DEI garbage that is wasteful” and then often misportraying what is happening (based on some weird stuff in the grant proposal).
So Rob is reading stories quoting officials in this administration that are trying to score points by finding DEI waste to cut. Yes often they are misleading but I think it’s hard to blame Rob here for being misled.
Here’s an interesting Reddit thread from awile back on math research caught up in this mess:
Nate (200ff4) — 3/26/2025 @ 8:06 amhttps://www.reddit.com/r/math/s/BOmfB6OoLJ
BS Time. You’re just attacking because you don’t support the agenda of shrinking government and eliminating toxic programs that exist to separate the taxpayers from his hard earned money.
Glad you are showing what you are.
NJRob (a3f796) — 3/26/2025 @ 8:10 amParticularly a lot of my understanding expressed above is based a lot off of the first comment in the thread which I find elucidating.
For context this is a community largely composed of mathematicians.
Nate (200ff4) — 3/26/2025 @ 8:15 amGood news…Palestinians in Gaza are protesting against Hamas.
Paul Montagu (97a04c) — 3/26/2025 @ 11:51 amRob, you apparently missed when I told nic that I though the cuts were a good idea even after she corrected your mistakes.
Time (99a6af) — 3/26/2025 @ 12:12 pmAnd today we find out that selling bonds on behalf of an indian tribe and then pocketing the money rather than investing it on behalf of the tribe … is not the kind of corruption the Trump administration wants to fight; in fact, Trump considers it to be pardonable.
aphrael (13a689) — 3/26/2025 @ 12:34 pmIn the race between Marge and Tuberville for Dimmest Bulb in Congress, Tuberville is now ahead by a nose, saying that the Greenlandic people are “all in on it” to become America.
This and his latest hostility to Europe may explain why VP Vance canceled all public appearances in Greenland.
Paul Montagu (97a04c) — 3/26/2025 @ 1:09 pm> Yet these f….. people just continue to lie and tell the American public that people in Greenland want to be part of the USA.
Obviously the election was rigged by woke globalist forces.
aphrael (13a689) — 3/26/2025 @ 1:12 pmSOROS!!!
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 3/26/2025 @ 1:20 pmMayor Bass is so impeachable…
It shouldn’t be that difficult to rebuild on existing foundations and footprints.
Paul Montagu (97a04c) — 3/26/2025 @ 2:55 pmThere’s an example of a DOGE in the southern hemisphere that’s actually effective and working, and it’s Argentina under Milei and his push to deregulate the country.
He was the original guy who carried around the symbolic chainsaw…Elon is a pale and ineffectual imitation, as Milei’s cuts actually had some thought behind them. What Milei has done in this short of a time is nothing short of miraculous. This didn’t escape the notice of Scott Lincicome at The Dispatch.
This is the difference between a “classically trained economist” in Milei (he cut tariffs and import and export taxes) and the economically retarded tariff-wielding Trump.
Paul Montagu (97a04c) — 3/26/2025 @ 3:22 pmOops, comment in moderation. It might’ve been the word “RE tard”.
Paul Montagu (97a04c) — 3/26/2025 @ 3:24 pmImpeachment doesn’t exist in the City Charter; the only removal methods are a recall, resignation, or death.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/26/2025 @ 3:40 pmHere he goes again:
In related news, the markets were down again today:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/26/2025 @ 3:59 pmThe DC Circuit Court upheld Judge Boasberg’s TRO preventing suspected Venezuelan gang members from deportation.
Funny thing. Trump invoked the Alien Enemies Act regarding Tren de Aragua, which implies that the Maduro regime is behind this “invasion” by the gang, but neither Venezuela nor TdA show up in Trump’s 2025 Annual Threat Assessment.
Paul Montagu (97a04c) — 3/26/2025 @ 4:02 pm@NJRob@257 It’s the only program close to what they were describing. The list is in my link if you want to look through it and see if you can find one that fits better.
Nic (120c94) — 3/26/2025 @ 4:32 pmThe DC Circuit Court upheld Judge Boasberg’s TRO preventing suspected Venezuelan gang members from deportation.
Did they touch upon his demand that those planes “turn around”?
According to their link, they punted on that. Outside of that verbal order, I have no problem with the TRO — there are many facts to weigh and this administration is sometimes not solid on the facts anyway.
I do object to judges giving orders to military flights, whether through CinC or not, but that is mostly moot court now.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/26/2025 @ 5:13 pmIn related news, the markets were down again today
The markets move for various reasons, and sometimes for no reason. That being said, the US market is underperforming the world.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/26/2025 @ 5:19 pmI’m sure if Trump announced a mea culpa regarding his tariffs, the markets would skyrocket.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/26/2025 @ 5:22 pmRepublicans lose by-election in Lancaster County, PA. Trump had won the county by 16%.
Those midterms are going to be brutal. On to Wisconsin.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/26/2025 @ 5:26 pmI’m sure if Trump announced a mea culpa regarding his tariffs, the markets would skyrocket.
Why? It would just mean that the wind from Vichy is chaotic.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/26/2025 @ 5:27 pmRFK Jr RIFs 10,000 HHS workers.
Except for distrusting RFKJ more than I distrust the rest of this administration, he is at least doing what needs to be done — the government has grown by accretion as new tasks have been added and is in serious need of consolidation. Not sure that he’s the man to do it, though — I’d prefer CEOs of conglomerates like P&G, Kraft Heinz and Berkshire Hathaway.
At least RFKJ can state the problem, and it’s not just HHS:
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/27/2025 @ 8:06 amMasked officers whisk away Tufts student from sidewalk, video shows
Could Trump’s deportation orders get more ugly?
I think we are going to get used to the “D” word soon.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/27/2025 @ 8:14 amHow is the deportation of recent unlawful immigrants going? That’s what he was elected to do.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/27/2025 @ 8:15 amMs. Ozturk could be affiliated with Hamas, but that’s what due process is for, to ascertain. As repellent as chanting at a pro-Hamas rally is (assuming she did something like that), it’s still free speech and not a deportable offense, far as I know.
Paul Montagu (97a04c) — 3/27/2025 @ 8:34 amNot enough. Trump campaigned on implementing the “largest mass deportation in history,” and his plans weren’t limited to “recent unlawful immigrants.”
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/27/2025 @ 9:09 amhis plans weren’t limited to “recent unlawful immigrants.”
I suspect they now include some judges. The point being that his supporters want the people undercutting their wages gone, and Trump seems to be easily distracted.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/27/2025 @ 9:17 amAmong those who support some deportations, % who say immigrants in the U.S. illegally should be deported if they …
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/27/2025 @ 9:34 amRather than wasting time sorting illegal immigrants by type, all illegal immigrants should be eligible for deportation.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/27/2025 @ 9:38 amThe first thing to do is ensure that all persons admitted under Biden’s parole program do leave by April 24th. Since they agreed to this under the terms of the parole, knowing that it could be revoked at any time without cause, there should be no huge court fight. Those that have gained lawful immigration status are exempt from the removal order.
That’s 500,000 mostly peaceful persons from Haiti, Venezuela, Cuba and Nicaragua who were given a respite but now must go home.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/27/2025 @ 9:50 amFinal deportation orders won’t be issued for years, given the backlog in the immigration courts.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/27/2025 @ 9:55 amTracking 10% below Biden’s record.
Footnotes omitted.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/27/2025 @ 10:02 amYou left out Ukraine.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/27/2025 @ 10:09 amFinal deportation orders won’t be issued for years, given the backlog in the immigration courts.
The parole system is different. ICE has already notified all parolees that their parole ends April 24th, at which time they are subject to arrest if they remain in the country.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/27/2025 @ 10:26 amYou left out Ukraine.
Those paroles were not revoked and may be a different system. There are no NEW paroles being granted, but those already here can stay until their individual parole termination dates arrive. They can also apply for an extension.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/27/2025 @ 10:31 amWhhops. No, they are no longer taking extensions. But since it is a separate program for Ukraine, the paroles that exist are still active.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/27/2025 @ 10:32 amAdmittedly, it’s very confused wrt Ukraine and Afghanistan, with some agencies (e.g. Reuters) posting incorrect info. Here’s Snopes trying to make sense of it:
If you read further, you will see that DHS is confused, too.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/27/2025 @ 10:41 amB-2 bombers deployed to Diego Garcia
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/27/2025 @ 10:45 amAre parolees eligible to ask for asylum? If so, that would stop any deportations.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/27/2025 @ 11:01 amSince there are ongoing peace negotiations, I’m sure it is safe to return to Ukraine.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/27/2025 @ 11:03 amOut:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/27/2025 @ 11:29 amam
Interesting details as to how internet plane spotters were able to track the B-2s from Whiteman AFB to Diego Garcia, including one that landed in Hawaii after declaring an emergency. The deployment wasn’t stealthy.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/27/2025 @ 11:37 am@304 Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/27/2025 @ 11:29 am
whembly (b7cc46) — 3/27/2025 @ 11:44 amAbout damn time. This was a silly pick for risking the House majority.
Are parolees eligible to ask for asylum? If so, that would stop any deportations.
Parole was asylum. I wouldn’t think they’d have new claims, but I guess everything can be litigated. Deportation is like the death penalty — lots of process, never a conclusion.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/27/2025 @ 11:53 amI would say that she’s probably disappointed that she won’t be called “ambassador” for the rest of her life.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/27/2025 @ 11:53 amSource?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/27/2025 @ 11:55 amAIUI, the parole documents included some agreements as to status. The idea was that they would have the duration of the parole to seek a more permanent status. Of course, Trump has now suspended further process so I really can’t say what a court might do. I guess that you could find a judge to say anything.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/27/2025 @ 11:56 amA parole was from countries selected due to ongoing disorder. Rather than have them go through the asylum process, it was stipulated that they had reason to flee. THe parole had an end date, which could be extended (but not now), and was revocable for cause or for the convenience of the USA. Those wanting permanent status where encouraged to apply during the period of the parole. Extension requests were due 6 months before end of parole.
Of course, given the horrific waits normal immigrants undergo, none of this is all that clear.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/27/2025 @ 12:03 pmI would say that she’s probably disappointed that she won’t be called “ambassador” for the rest of her life.
Maybe after the big MAGA win in 2026.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/27/2025 @ 12:04 pmAnd now I’ll put in a good word for MAGA: At least they are trying to do something.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/27/2025 @ 12:05 pmHumanitarian parole and asylum are different.
Humanitarian parole:
Asylum:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/27/2025 @ 12:14 pmFederal regulations on asylum and humanitarian parole.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/27/2025 @ 12:18 pmThey keep on saying that the attack on March 15 was a success. It was tactically, but not strategically. It did not achieve any goals – and the interesting things about the Signal discussion is that nobody questioned whether it would accomplish anything (and that they worried about casualties – but this was extremely safe for the members of the U.S. armed forces, as it always is and has been since the 1991)
1. There has been no change in the number of ships sunk by the Houthis. It was zero before; it is zero now.
2. Insurance rates for ships and cargo transiting the Suez Canal have not gone down,
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/in-depth-research-reports/issue-brief/a-lifeline-under-threat-why-the-suez-canals-security-matters-for-the-world/
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/27/2025 @ 12:36 pmPossibly because it wasn’t a strategic attack-apparently it did kill a number of Houthi terrorist leaders, as well as those involved in weapons development. With at least five (or more) B-2s at Diego Garcia (as well as 18 KC-135 tankers and at least seven C-17A Globemaster IIIs, the Houthis (and Iran) had better watch the skies.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/27/2025 @ 1:32 pmAn irrelevant statistic. The Houthis have resumed attacks on US Navy ships and Israel; and the Houthis have announced they will resume attacks on shipping (hence the fact that insurance rates have not declined.) I do disagree with this Pete Hegseth quote:
The Administration should be “unrelenting” to destroy the Houthis as a fighting force.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/27/2025 @ 1:44 pmRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/27/2025 @ 1:32 pm
This seems to have been one of the Pentagon’s lesser options. Trump is proceeding cautiously, and Freedom of Navigation has not been restored – U.S. (and some other countries’) ships and planes still need to be present in the area to intercept missiles and drones.
And bombing Iran might not be enough to do it.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/27/2025 @ 2:07 pmUnless Iran is turned into glass.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/27/2025 @ 2:10 pmIran denies responsibility for the Houthis, and is even claiming to be giving only political support
The last thing I heard is that Trump said Iran would be held responsible if something happens but I guess it has not.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/mar/17/donald-trump-iran-will-be-held-responsible-for-houthi-attacks
Meanwhile Trump is also tying to negotiate Iran giving up its nuclear program – even though Tulsi Gabbard is still relying on Khamenei’s fatwa against building a nuclear weapon remaining in effect.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/27/2025 @ 2:11 pmWho cares what Iran says.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/27/2025 @ 2:13 pmIt was a procedural ruling, not on the merits, but it doesn’t look good for the Administration on the merits either.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/27/2025 @ 2:29 pmThe Alien Enemies Act was enacted when there was no other procedure or authority for deportation. It was to make certain foreign nationals eligible for deportation as enemies of the United States.
It probably had something to do with this: I think I read once of a Frenchman who was expelled but I cannot find it here:
https://www.battlefields.org/learn/articles/xyz-affair
https://history.state.gov/milestones/1784-1800/xyz#:~:text=The%20XYZ%20Affair%20was%20a,as%20the%20Treaty%20of%20Mortefontaine.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/27/2025 @ 3:07 pmRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/27/2025 @ 2:13 pm
People in the Administration do. They want to justify the use of force. This is historically the case and was done, for example, during the Cuban missile crisis.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/27/2025 @ 3:10 pmThere has been no change in the number of ships sunk by the Houthis. It was zero before; it is zero now.
I agree with Rip, it’s irrelevant. If you have a supertanker loaded with Saudi crude, the cost of being the first ship sunk is enormous so you bite the bullet and go around Africa. This upsets everyone, from Egypt who doesn’t get their toll to the tanker company that might be losing money on the trip, to the oil company and the customers who are inconvenienced and pay more.
That Iran can embargo shipping through the canal with these catspaws should bring down holy hell on Iran. It hasn’t yet but that where things are headed.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/27/2025 @ 3:20 pmOn the one hand, it should be the UK and EU that are dealing with it. OTOH Britain, France and Israel tried to take control of the canal in the 1950s and it was the US that stopped them. That placed the burden on us.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/27/2025 @ 3:23 pmThe Alien Enemies Act was enacted when there was no other procedure or authority for deportation. It was to make certain foreign nationals eligible for deportation as enemies of the United States.
It was amended in 1918 to include women and other irregulars, after the Pancho Villa raids and the Zimmerman Telegram.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/27/2025 @ 3:25 pmOnly during wartime: British nationals during the War of 1812; the nationals of the Central Powers during World Wat I (Germany, Austria-Hungary, the Ottoman Empire, and Bulgaria); and German, Italian, and Japanese nationals during World War II.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/27/2025 @ 3:28 pmAnd China.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/27/2025 @ 3:29 pmAs far as I can tell it hasn’t been amended since 1798.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/27/2025 @ 3:33 pmIt was a procedural ruling, not on the merits, but it doesn’t look good for the Administration on the merits either.
From what I read, the judges went out of their way to emphasize that the TRO was normal procedure. One of the judges showed some hostility to Trump and the plane mess, but she did not go so far as to say that the judge could issue orders to a military flight. That’s where the separation of powers argument is strongest for Trump.
As far as the use of the Enemy Aliens Act in the first place, all commentary seems to hinge on what “enemy” means in context. Was the Pancho Villa raid a state-authorized attack? Did it have to be to cause Pershing’s response? MAGA points to the idea of the Reconquista, which is a fuzzy target, and the cartels which seem to own parts of the Mexican government (and are far less fuzzy).
Personally, I will wait on events. Should there be a serious conflict with the cartels at the border, attitudes may change. They say that 90 days is an eternity in politics, but it’s an effing lifetime in Trumpworld.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/27/2025 @ 3:33 pmAs far as I can tell it hasn’t been amended since 1798.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/27/2025 @ 3:33 pm
Source
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/27/2025 @ 3:34 pm50 USC 21 amended
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/27/2025 @ 3:35 pmAnd from your source, Rip:
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/27/2025 @ 3:36 pmAnd what is an “invasion,” which in this context doesn’t apply.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/27/2025 @ 3:37 pmThat was not an amendment to the Act, but an amendment to Wilson’s proclamation.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/27/2025 @ 3:40 pmProbably not, since Villa commanded forces that opposed the Mexican government. Needless to say, Mexican President Carranza didn’t appreciate Pershing’s in trying to round up Villa:
I daresay that the US would face the same hostility and non-cooperation from the Mexican government (and public) if the Administration decides to unilaterally launch a military operation going after the cartels. It would involve urban combat, as many of the cartels operate in the cities, and with US soldiers facing murder or kidnapping charges.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/27/2025 @ 4:01 pmRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/27/2025 @ 4:08 pm
Correction:
The April 19, 1918 proclamation implements the Apr. 16, 1918 Congressional amendment of April 16, 1918:
But my point still stands that the Alien Enemies Act itself has never been amended.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/27/2025 @ 4:19 pmVia Trey Wingo, here are some new words to describe Trump’s method of discourse…
Blatherskite: A person who talks at length without making sense.
Paul Montagu (97a04c) — 3/28/2025 @ 8:42 amBumfuzzle: To confuse or fluster.
Ultracrepidarian: One who speaks beyond their knowledge.