3/18/2025

27 Responses to “About *That* Phone Call Between Trump and Putin”

1. Hello.

   Dana (72b06a) — 3/18/2025 @ 12:56 pm

   
   

2. At this point it still looks like Trump will sell out Ukraine to Russia and claims it’s a victory.

   Time (4a58b7) — 3/18/2025 @ 1:07 pm

   
   

3. Rheinmetall ADR Is up 200%. Probably a good long term investment

   Time (4a58b7) — 3/18/2025 @ 1:10 pm

   
   

4. Time,

   Yep, and absolutely maddening and still shocking that a sitting American president would rather cozy up to oppression and a dictatorship, rather than making a firm stand for freedom and democracy.

   Dana (014924) — 3/18/2025 @ 1:13 pm

   
   

5. The sitting American president is an anti-democratic, criminal, dishonest thug who hates his country. It’s sad that a plurality of my fellow citizens fell for his Con.

   Time (4a58b7) — 3/18/2025 @ 1:17 pm

   
   

6. I don’t think the Loser hates our nation; like most con men he just sees most of us as suckers. He does dislike, to put it mildly, democracies, and prefers autocracies run by men like him. And he prefers leaders chosen by heredity — which explains his love for Kim of North Korea, his friendship with Saudis, and even his getting along well with the late QE II.

   Jim Miller (354c0e) — 3/18/2025 @ 2:55 pm

   
   

7. Putin agreed not to attack what he’s mostly avoided attacking already or is afraid to escalate because maybe Trump said something about retaliation.

   Trump doesn’t need to do this semi-kumbaya but basically we can ignore that.

   Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/18/2025 @ 3:00 pm

   
   

8. Sammy, Putin hasn’t avoided attacking power grids. He’s been targeting them, especially in the colder months.

   While Putin claimed he will abstain from hitting electric plants, he’s silent on targeting dwellings, churches, schools and hospitals, which he’s been doing from Day One. This is a deal that gives Putin the upper hand in his war, and it’s not a ceasefire.

   Paul Montagu (2133ba) — 3/18/2025 @ 3:34 pm

   
   

9. Europe will have to step up. Putin fears a nuclear armed europe and a powerful military. Putin can’t even beat Ukraine.

   asset (634e80) — 3/18/2025 @ 3:35 pm

   
   

10. Putin targeted an energy plant just hours after his phone call with Trump.

    Dana (3f9d2e) — 3/18/2025 @ 4:02 pm

    
    

11. Bill Browder:

    Putin’s call with Trump today was classic KGB rope-a-dope. Giving Trump a non answer to his ceasefire proposal as Putin promises endless talks and negotiations without any intention of settling anything

    Dana (7da8b9) — 3/18/2025 @ 4:06 pm

    
    

12. The WSJ’s take:

    ………..
    “Both leaders agreed this conflict needs to end with a lasting peace,” the White House readout of the call said. Mr. Putin made minor concessions, including a breather from targeting Ukraine’s energy infrastructure. The White House also claimed progress on deconfliction in the Black Sea. The statement ended with overtures to “potential cooperation” in the Middle East and “an improved bilateral relationship.”

    Yet it’s clear the Kremlin is demanding major concessions even for a short-term cease-fire, much less for a broader peace deal. The Russian readout repeated its demand for a “complete cessation of foreign military aid” and intelligence sharing for Ukraine. Mr. Putin also wants Ukraine cut out of the talks and deal only with the President—oh, and sanctions relief.

    These are terms Ukraine can’t accept, except at the end of a bludgeon. ………

    It’s a good sign Mr. Trump didn’t concede to Mr. Putin’s demands in this call, but the Russian dictator will play rough. He knows he can sustain more losses on the battlefield and that Mr. Trump has promised voters he’ll deliver peace. Mr. Putin is unlikely to budge from his core demands unless the President and Europe are willing to turn the screws on him with tougher sanctions and arming Ukraine to the hilt. Mr. Putin is betting Mr. Trump won’t do that, and based on the mood music so far from this Administration, it isn’t a bad bet.
    ………….
    Mr. Trump’s legacy would be permanently damaged by an outcome that the world perceives as a victory for Mr. Putin. U.S. public opinion isn’t sold on Mr. Trump’s bent, with more than 75% of Americans saying in a survey this month they’re concerned that Mr. Putin wouldn’t honor a peace deal, including 69% of Republicans.

    For all the noise of negotiations, what matters are the terms of a peace deal. Mr. Trump might want to keep a note card reminding him that roughly seven in 10 Americans wanted out of Afghanistan in 2021. President Biden thought he’d be a hero for wrapping up that war. We know how that turned out.
    ##########

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/18/2025 @ 5:54 pm

    
    

13. Putin agreed not to attack what he’s mostly avoided attacking already ……

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/18/2025 @ 3:00 pm

    “Facts” not in evidence.

    Ukraine’s energy system1 has been regularly targeted by Russia since its full-scale invasion in 2022, with attacks intensifying since the spring of 2024. The targeting of energy infrastructure has had wide-ranging consequences for the provision of energy to Ukrainian households and other consumers. Over the course of 2022-23, about half of Ukraine’s power generation capacity was either occupied by Russian forces, destroyed or damaged, and approximately half of the large network substations were damaged by missiles and drones. The occupation of the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, on its own, reduced available Ukrainian power generation capacity by 6 gigawatts (GW). In the wave of attacks between March and May 2024, Ukraine lost another 9 GW of generation capacity; this was mainly thermal and hydro assets, although some smaller solar PV units also came under attack, as well as numerous substations. This left Ukraine with only around one-third of its pre-war capacity, even before the most recent round of summer attacks. Ukraine’s district heating and natural gas infrastructure has also been targeted. Since 2022, 18 large combined heat and power (CHP) plants have been damaged or completely destroyed, along with more than 800 boiler houses. Some above-ground natural gas storage infrastructure has been damaged, although underground inventories remain unaffected.
    ………
    Since 2022, Russian targeting of Ukraine’s power infrastructure has sought to destabilise the electricity system by disabling large coal and gas-fired generation units and key parts of the transmission network………..The electric power industry is the part of the energy sector that has suffered the greatest damage since the Russian invasion in 2022, estimated in June to top USD 11.4 billion, with three-quarters of the losses in generation facilities and the remainder in networks. Full like-for-like restoration of all the lost generation capacities is not aligned with Ukraine’s vision for the future, but early estimates for the cost of building back are around USD 30 billion.
    ……….
    Russia has been targeting some natural gas infrastructure in Ukraine, including production sites and transmission and distribution networks, as well as gas storage facilities. While gas storage in deep underground facilities is unaffected, above-ground facilities are more easily targeted and have sustained some damage……..

    Source

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/18/2025 @ 6:17 pm

    
    

14. Oh:

    According to a Kremlin readout of the Trump-Putin phone call, “It was emphasized that the key condition for preventing the escalation of the conflict and working towards its resolution through political and diplomatic means should be the complete cessation of foreign military aid and the provision of intelligence information to Kyiv.”

    Dana (2ffdc5) — 3/18/2025 @ 7:31 pm

    
    

15. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/18/2025 @ 5:54 pm

    “It’s a good sign Mr. Trump didn’t concede to Mr. Putin’s demands in this call……..”

    I think the WSJ editorial board is pollyannish in believing Trump wouldn’t throw Ukraine under Russian tank treads. I don’t think he cares anything about his legacy; and he has nothing to lose by doing so. I’m sure he can retire to a luxury dacha.

    Rip Murdock (288dd2) — 3/18/2025 @ 8:13 pm

    
    

16. Prime minister chamberlin talks to the fuhrer.

    asset (2a8065) — 3/18/2025 @ 8:54 pm

    
    

17. It may be a miscalculation for Putin to treat Trump and the United States with such disdain. Even if Trump only notices the slights to himself, it’s not smart.

    What it looks like to me is that Trump is too stupid to see that Putin is in a deeper hole than he is. Putin desperately needs this war to end, but Trump is not pressing the advantage for all its worth. Even if Trump wanted to sell out Ukraine, he’s selling too low. It’s depressing to see such a weak sister and President.

    He’s even poor at venial.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/18/2025 @ 8:59 pm

    
    

18. Prime minister chamberlin talks to the fuhrer.

    Chamberlain knew he’d made a mistake and owned up to it. Trump never will.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/18/2025 @ 9:00 pm

    
    

19. Putin targeted an energy plant just hours after his phone call with Trump.

    But he used fewer bombs. Progress!

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/18/2025 @ 9:01 pm

    
    

20. Imagine if Trump said this about Putin…

    “One of the nastiest countries to deal with is Russia. Now, this was Putin — good old Vlad. I call him ‘Regional Power Putin.’ His people were nasty and they weren’t telling the truth.”

    …instead of saying this about a 200-year old ally…

    “One of the nastiest countries to deal with is Canada. Now, this was Trudeau — good old Justin. I call him ‘Governor Trudeau.’ His people were nasty and they weren’t telling the truth.”

    This is the Bizarro TrumpWorld wer’re in.

    Paul Montagu (6e4595) — 3/18/2025 @ 9:21 pm

    
    

21. Let this be a lesson to all parents:

    Don’t give a special needs six-year old the key to the gun cabinet.

    nk (b9aad8) — 3/19/2025 @ 6:29 am

    
    

22. Putin targeted an energy plant just hours after his phone call with Trump. Well, of course (which people should figure out)

    Ukraine hadn’t yet agreed to this and he wanted to put pressure on Ukraine to do so.

    Trump proposed that the United States operate the electricity plant.

    https://www.newser.com/story/365926/trump-says-he-had-very-good-phone-call-with-zelensky.html

    …Rubio and Waltz said the leaders “agreed on a partial ceasefire against energy.” They said Trump also “discussed Ukraine’s electrical supply and nuclear power plants. He said that the United States could be very helpful in running those plants with its electricity and utility expertise. American ownership of those plants would be the best protection for that infrastructure and support for Ukrainian energy infrastructure.” Putin agreed to halt strikes on energy infrastructure Tuesday, but Zelensky said earlier Wednesday that Russia launched strikes overnight “targeting energy infrastructure, among other things,” the Wall Street Journal reports. “Putin’s words are very much at odds with reality,” Zelensky said.

    Zelensky requested additional Patriot missile defense systems during the call, and Rubio said Trump “agreed to work with him to find what was available, particularly in Europe,” the AP reports. White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt said the US will continue sharing intelligence with Ukraine despite Russia’s demand for the US to cut off the supply of weapons and intelligence, NBC News reports. In a post on X, Zelensky described the phone call with Trump as “positive, very substantive, and frank.” “I thanked President Trump and the American people for their support,” he wrote. “I stressed that Ukrainians want peace, which is why Ukraine accepted the proposal for an unconditional ceasefire.”

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/19/2025 @ 2:12 pm

    
    

23. Trump proposed that the United States operate the electricity plant.

    LOL! And make the American operators Russian missile targets? No thanks.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/19/2025 @ 3:10 pm

    
    

24. Chamberlain knew he’d made a mistake and owned up to it.

    Source?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/19/2025 @ 3:15 pm

    
    

25. Trump proposed that the United States operate the electricity plant.

    Given that the Zaporizhia nuclear plant is in Russian-occupied Ukraine (and intends to keep it), that will be tough sell to Putin.

    Zelensky said Wednesday that the discussion of potential investment into power facilities with Trump related to the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant, which is idled in Russian-occupied territory. Trump asked if the U.S. could invest and refurbish it, and Zelensky said he wasn’t against the idea, the Ukrainian president added.
    ………
    The Zaporizhia nuclear plant, Europe’s largest, was seized by Russian forces soon after Moscow’s invasion in 2022. Now near the front lines, it has been the target of repeated attacks.

    Before the war, Zaporizhia produced about 20% of Ukraine’s power supply. It is largely in shut-down mode now, but Russia has told the International Atomic Energy Agency that it plans to reopen the site eventually and might use it to provide occupied areas of Ukraine with electricity.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/19/2025 @ 3:22 pm

    
    

26. Pekka has an update on “Degenerate Russia”, with links galore…

    In today’s Vatnik Soup, I’ll continue the “Degenerate Russia” series. In it, we look behind the Kremlin propaganda and see the real Russia – an authoritarian country that doesn’t care about its people and desperately tries to hold on to its imperialistic past.

    The Kremlin loves to brand Russia as the last defender of “traditional values” against the “decadent” West. But in reality, Russia is plagued by crime, violence, corruption, and even neo-Nazi groups. Let’s break down the hypocrisy.

    First part: Russia has one of the highest divorce rates in the world. In 2021, it had a divorce rate of 4,3 per 1000 people, among the highest globally. While Putin criticizes Western liberalism, over 60% of Russian marriages end in divorce. So much for being a “family values” society.

    Domestic violence is rampant in Russia. A 2019 study estimated that 14,000 Russian women die annually from domestic abuse. Yet in 2017, Putin decriminalized some forms of domestic violence, making it even harder for victims to get protection from the state.

    Russia’s murder rate remains higher than in most European countries. Organized crime, human trafficking, and corruption thrive under Putin’s rule, yet state propaganda pretends Russia is a model of “moral order.”

    Russian prisons are infamous for their extreme violence and sexual abuse. In 2021, leaked videos showed systemic torture and rape in Russian jails. Prisoners are often brutalized, and some are even recruited for war with the promise of a pardon.

    Russia has sent thousands of convicted criminals, including murderers, rapists, and even cannibals, to fight in Ukraine. These men, many with histories of extreme violence, have committed brutal war crimes against civilians.

    Despite claiming to fight “Nazism” in Ukraine, Russia openly uses neo-Nazi paramilitary groups. The Rusich unit, fighting under Russian command, flaunts SS symbols and commits war crimes. Wagner Group also recruited known neo-Nazis.

    Russian neo-Nazi groups aren’t just in the military. Groups like Russian Imperial Movement and Atomwaffen Division Russland have flourished under Putin’s rule. Russian authorities only crack down on them when they become politically inconvenient.

    Putin and Russian propaganda claim to defend “Christian values,” but corruption, alcoholism, drug abuse, and prostitution are rampant. Russian elites preach morality while living decadent lives, often in the very West they so much pretend to despise.

    Kremlin officials call the West “decadent” and threaten it with nuclear bombs, yet send their own children to live, study, and invest in Europe and the US. They know Russia has no future but expect ordinary Russians to die for their lies.

    Putin’s own daughters have lived and studied in the West. Lavrov’s daughter went to Columbia University. The children of Russia’s elites own luxury properties in London, Paris, and New York – while their fathers tell Russians the West is evil.

    The Russian Orthodox Church is deeply entangled with the Kremlin. Instead of addressing moral decay, it blesses tanks and missiles while supporting war. Patriarch Kirill, who’s worth around $4 billion, even called dying in Ukraine “a spiritual sacrifice.”

    Russia’s demographic crisis contradicts its image as a strong, traditional society. With a quickly shrinking population, high mortality, and low birth rates, Russia is losing hundreds of thousands of people per year. They try to fix this by abducting Ukrainian children.

    Crime and corruption define Russia far more than any “traditional values.” Oligarchs loot the country while ordinary Russians struggle with poverty, low wages, and declining living standards. For many, the only way to survive is to enlist to the meat grinder in Ukraine.

    Russian soldiers are sent to die for an empire that no longer exists, while the elites and oligarchs hoard wealth. Many conscripts are undertrained, poorly equipped, and abandoned when wounded. Some are even executed for retreating.

    Meanwhile, Russian state TV pushes conspiracy theories that blame the West for Russia’s problems. Especially older people rely on TV when it comes to information, and Russia’s whole network has been harnessed to increase the support for the “special military operation.”

    To conclude: Russia isn’t a bastion of conservatism or traditionalism. It’s an authoritarian state that uses “traditional values” as propaganda while being plagued by crime, corruption, moral decay, and even neo-Nazi groups.

    Paul Montagu (f93fe0) — 3/19/2025 @ 9:48 pm

    
    

27. If demographics is destiny, Russia is in serious trouble.

    Jim Miller (84b2b3) — 3/20/2025 @ 4:52 am