Trump Pauses Military Aid to Ukraine
[guest post by Dana]
President Donald Trump is ordering military aid to Ukraine to be paused after his Friday Oval Office spat with Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelensky, a White House official told CNN.
“The President has been clear that he is focused on peace. We need our partners to be committed to that goal as well. We are pausing and reviewing our aid to ensure that it is contributing to a solution,” the White House official said.
Of course it goes without saying that it is Congress that makes decisions about appropriations, not the Executive. But that apparently no longer matters.
Additionally, when Trump says that he is “focused on peace,” I understand him to mean that he is focused on making Putin happy. We already know how he feels about the “ungrateful dictator” Zelensky, and by extension, an ungrateful, war-provoking Ukraine. His focus is on his bromance with a murderous dictator, and keeping the thug happy.
This Russia realignment is jarring, and hard to believe is happening (or already happened). In my mind, the response to such a shockingly bad pivot seems more muted than it should be, especially given the far-reaching impacts this will have on the West. I can only assume that a muted response is because Americans a) don’t care; b) don’t understand the implications; c) believe that Trump knows what’s *best* for voters; or d) that in a mere 5 weeks of Trump in the Oval office, people find themselves exhausted. We know that Trump certainly has his own best interest at heart. And by that, I am referring to his angling on how he can make a profit. Because somehow, someway he will. In everything he touches, that is Priority 1. But also, let’s keep in MND that this latest rebuff to Ukraine comes just days after Trump and Vance blew up at Zelensky’s lack of gratefulness. Tit for tat, because that’s the way that children play who haven’t learned better when angered or publicly shamed.
“When you add it all up – Trump’s concessions to Putin, insults to Zelenskyy, extortion of Ukraine, bad negotiation tactics and refusal to enforce a peace deal – there’s no evidence that Trump is serious about mediating a peace, and there’s a lot of evidence to suggest that all he cares about is courting Putin.”
—Dana
Hello.
Dana (753665) — 3/3/2025 @ 5:33 pmLies, disingenuousness, rationalizations and alibis in 10, 9, 8 ….
nk (31711d) — 3/3/2025 @ 6:19 pmHere’s some solid reasoning from Catoggio, and I say it because he’s channeling me…
Paul Montagu (8f08d3) — 3/3/2025 @ 10:12 pmAnd like you, your champion also didn’t watch the whole thing.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jutkJvrrYp8
BuDuh (1f536d) — 3/3/2025 @ 10:29 pmOne, you don’t what Catoggio saw. You’re engaging in rank speculation.
Two, you linked to a 20-minute YouTube. I saw the whole 49 minutes. Catoggio even saw the first moments when Trump twice insulted Zelenskyy’s attire, before they even sat down for the eventual ambush.
Paul Montagu (8f08d3) — 3/3/2025 @ 10:58 pmSo what! America couldn’t beat north vietnam. Russia and America couldn’t beat afganistan. The british couldn’t beat us and they tried twice 1775 and 1812. Zelensky can hold on till the election in 2026 with military aid from a frightened Europe now with sweden who’s military is designed to fight this kind of war with russia (look it up)along with germany’s industrial might. They can bleed russia white. I have said this before If putin doesn’t win he loses and if Ukraine doesn’t lose it wins. During the vietnam war a reporter told gen. Giap that gen. westmoreland said we will kill 10 vietnamese for every draftee we lose. Gen. Giap said so? Sounds like a fair trade to me! Trump supporters talk like putin has taken kiev and Zelensky should surrender. After 2028 electionswe should send trumpsters to Ukraine and tell them to fight their way to moscow!
asset (f234c3) — 3/3/2025 @ 11:24 pmDoes it seem to anyone else that Trump is in a lot of hurry, more than is called for, not only in regard to making Russia great again, but in everything else as well?
Pressure from his patrons or information from his doctors?
nk (31711d) — 3/4/2025 @ 3:37 amNot a bad analolgy by Jon Stewart.
Paul Montagu (8f08d3) — 3/4/2025 @ 5:09 amInteresting that after the blow up we pause Military aid. Rational adults wouldn’t find that a valid response to one bad meeting. But we’re not governed by rational adults. We’re governed by MAGA.
Time123 (9c409f) — 3/4/2025 @ 5:17 amBuduh, I watched the entire thing. Neither party behaved well and Trump could have recovered the negotiations if he wanted. He didn’t want to.
The most generous take is that Trump wants peace and doesn’t care if Ukraine is conquered by Russia. But there’s plenty of evidence to support a less generous conclusion.
But at least the perpetually aggrieved Trump supporters can take solace that the US has finally stood up to a poor nation that’s been trying to join the western world for a decade. It’s been too long that….(I honestly have no idea what the MAGA beef with Ukraine is beyond anger that they didn’t help Trump try to frame Joe Biden as part of his 2020 election strategy).
Time123 (9c409f) — 3/4/2025 @ 5:21 amIt’s sad, but this is what Trump was going to do
-Pardon all the Jan 6ers, even the ones who violenltuy assaulted the police in order to seize control of the capital in an effort to prevent the peaceful transfer of power.
-Appoint barely qualified cooks that will support his vendetta against anyone that tried to hold him accountable for breaking the law.
-Side with Russia against the west.
-Break any US commitment that doesn’t make immediate sense to your average drunk from Yonkers who doesn’t understand what a trade deficit is.
Next he and the GOP will increase the budget deficit while simultaneously making the government less effective. (This is a prediction based on the actions of the last couple months)
Time123 (9c409f) — 3/4/2025 @ 5:29 am@4
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Need a good laugh this morning… thanks.
whembly (b7cc46) — 3/4/2025 @ 6:33 amTo those questioning whether or not POTUS can pause appropriated spending by Congress, with respect to foreign affairs…
What happened to President Biden when he paused Israeli weapons shipments?
whembly (b7cc46) — 3/4/2025 @ 6:36 amI’m sure he can legally get away with pausing aid to UKE long enough to allow the Russian invasion to secure significant advantage.
Ppl who love Russia and dislike Democracy everywhere will be pleased.
Time123 (930363) — 3/4/2025 @ 6:47 amI’m displeased by it.
My hope is this is squeezing Zelenskyy to stop d!cking around, and get with the program.
I’m not optimistic though.
whembly (b7cc46) — 3/4/2025 @ 7:01 amThat is the pro-Putin pro-terrorist MAGA line, blaming the victim for not getting with the program while making no demands for the invader who started this war eleven years ago and who is the only person who can end this today.
Paul Montagu (8f08d3) — 3/4/2025 @ 7:06 am@18
Shove it Paul.
Both the Trump administration and Zelenskyy administration has to work together.
It takes TWO sides to find common grounds.
It’s a bad look for BOTH administration, but Zelenskyy was the one who escalated and blew the meeting up. He really needs better staff to help him navigate this diplomacy, and I really hope they get it together.
Calling it for what that really was is NOT advancing a “pro-Putin pro-terrorist MAGA line”. It’s taking a pragmatic look at the situation.
Not everything that doesn’t go your way means folks are advancing a pro-Putin, pro-Terrorist line.
whembly (b7cc46) — 3/4/2025 @ 7:25 amPffft. The childish way folks frame the issue is really telling.
lloyd (a2ca6f) — 3/4/2025 @ 7:26 amHere’s a challenge for all of you: Let’s suppose that you could wave a magic wand and impose a “just and lasting peace” in Ukraine. What would the elements of that be?
Some are obvious: First, the Ukrainian children that have been kidnapped should be returned, immediately.
Last, Putin should be tried and punished for his war crimes. As should some of those who followed his orders.
(The first would be just; the second, by punishing the man who began this war, would make it more likely the peace would be lasting.)
What else should be in such a peace agreement? I think territorial concessions by Russia would be appropriate — if they are approved by referendums in the areas affected.
An exercise like this, would help us clarify what our national goals should be.
Jim Miller (efcd5a) — 3/4/2025 @ 7:57 am@16, what do you think the program is? At this point it looks like the program the US is pushing is Russia gets Ukraine, the US get a bunch of mineral rights, and the Ukrainian ppl get to be ruled by Moscow.
Time123 (930363) — 3/4/2025 @ 8:00 amIt’s worth noting that there is no guarantee that the Ukrainian people except a bad piece settlement. When Russia conquered Chechnya, I think the Chechen resistance continued for 10 years Ish eventually Russia completely destroyed them, but it took a decade.
That was without any significant western support. If the US sides with Russia, which we appear to be doing at the moment, and this allows for significant advances in the Russian conquest, it’s likely that a protracted gorilla war will continue for years.
Time123 (930363) — 3/4/2025 @ 8:04 amWhat needs to happen is for Trump to lay off Zelenskyy and pressure Putin to end the war that he started and that he can finish with a phone call to his generals, but all Trump has been doing is appeasing and aligning with the terrorst.
Paul Montagu (8f08d3) — 3/4/2025 @ 8:11 amThis American president hates America that much, choosing the greater evil. Fight the real enemy.
Regarding Chechnya, Time, like it or not, that was an internal Russian matter, involving a territory that was already established Russia. As appalling and atrocity-filled as it was, there’s nothing the international community could really do about it. But we can observe that the tactics Putin used are little different from what he’s doing in Ukraine.
Paul Montagu (8f08d3) — 3/4/2025 @ 8:19 amPaul, I don’t disagree with you, at least in as far as there was nothing we could do. Saying it was an internal Russian matter it’s something I don’t know that I agree with. The Chen’s aren’t part of the Russian people. They’re independent or unique ethnic group, but they have been under the control of the Soviets for a very long time. They also clearly did not want to be ruled by Moscow,
I guess my feeling is like this. If Guam or Puerto Rico was consistently voting for independence from the United States and resisting US governance a brutal invasion would not be justified.
Time123 (930363) — 3/4/2025 @ 8:39 amJim, here is a list of things I think are important national goals. No particular order.
Maintain the post World War II world order with the United States as the dominant superpower
Demonstrated adherence to our principles of self determination for people’s
Demonstrate our adherence to the principle that borders cannot be red drawn via war
Hold Russian aggression in Europe
Increase the number of free democracy, as that has been shown to be to our advantage in many ways
Diminish Russias ability To support our other enemies, such as Iran.
Deter China from invading Taiwan
Anything in there you don’t think is a good idea?
Time123 (930363) — 3/4/2025 @ 8:46 amTime, Russia has 190 ethnic groups that were absorbed and assimilated into imperialist Russia.
Paul Montagu (8f08d3) — 3/4/2025 @ 9:03 amChechnya is a better case than others because part of the region declared its independence after the USSR collapsed, until Putin shut it down, so I take your point on that.
Do
Striking while the iron is hot. As Kevin M would say, he is expending his political capital while he has a Republican majority in Congress. After 2026, the House may flip. His “shock and awe” approach has succeeded in placing the Democrats back on their heels.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/4/2025 @ 9:04 amAndy McCarthy gets it. The final paragraph…
Paul Montagu (8f08d3) — 3/4/2025 @ 9:04 am@21
The program is to “stop the fighting”.
What this looks like is to be negotiated.
My guess?
Its the kind of negotiation that won’t satisfy anyone. But, the end result is that the fighting ends.
whembly (b7cc46) — 3/4/2025 @ 9:06 amThe “stop the fighting” isn’t a worthy goal, just say so.
Be like Kevin who wishes US military to engage Russian assets seemingly without fear from a nuclear peer.
whembly (b7cc46) — 3/4/2025 @ 9:09 am26, Time123:
while preparing that list, please add as a preface:
“Hi taxpayers!
We currently borrow $2 Trillion a year to fund our federal government.
About $1 trillion of that is paid as iterest on our debt of $37 Trillion.
so yes, we’re borrowing to pay interest on prior borrowing.
We are committed to pay social security to geezers.
And Medicare to seemingly everyone who walks here.
Our ICBM’s are old.
China is outbuilding our navy.
We have security Comittments to Israel.
And to NATO that will barely pay to defend themselves.
(while they mock our country, our guns, and our healthcare).
And someting called SEATO.
Nationwide, our roads are in disrepair.
Our academic achievement is slipping badly.
Now, knowing all that, how much MORE do you personally want to borrow to pay for the following:
Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e) — 3/4/2025 @ 9:10 amOh.
Yes, Z-man, more of this and you’ll be fine.
whembly (b7cc46) — 3/4/2025 @ 9:13 amPressure from his patrons or information from his doctors?
The expectation that the midterms may restore Congress’ ability to drive legislation. A lot of folks who reluctantly chose Trump in 2024 are going to take it out on the GOP in 2026. Pretty much as what happened to Obama after Obamacare was jammed through.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/4/2025 @ 9:18 amNot a bad analogy by Jon Stewart.
Somewhere in those 24 minutes, I guess, but I am not willing to wait for it.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/4/2025 @ 9:20 amIt takes TWO sides to find common grounds.
Your apologism knows no bounds, whembley. Tell me about a time when Trump or Putin sought a common ground with anyone. Both use their power to punch down on everyone until they “get with the program.”
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/4/2025 @ 9:26 amAn exercise like this, would help us clarify what our national goals should be.
Right now they seem to be regime change in Ukraine.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/4/2025 @ 9:28 amAt this point it looks like the program the US is pushing is Russia gets Ukraine, the US get a bunch of mineral rights, and the Ukrainian ppl get to be ruled by Moscow.
30 pieces of rare earth.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/4/2025 @ 9:29 amThis American president hates America that much, choosing the greater evil. Fight the real enemy.
And the once-great Republican Party, the party of Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt and Reagan, keeps its collective head down as Trump drags it through the sewer.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/4/2025 @ 9:32 amThe “stop the fighting” isn’t a worthy goal, just say so.
The terms matter, as do the reasons for the conflict.
Would you say that stopping the Pacific War in 1943, with no concessions on either side, was a worthy goal?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/4/2025 @ 9:38 amWhembly, UKE has been pretty consistent that they would like to stop the fighting and need some security guarantees to do that. They’ve signaled that the know they’re not getting all their land back.k
Security guarantees were the subject that seemed to derail the news conference.
When you and other’s ignore that fact and say “UKE needs to get with the program” it’s hard not to conclude you don’t see security guarantees as a legitimate concern and want them to agree to a peace agreement that lacks those.
Many of the things you’ve laid out as ways to achieve that appear to have been rejected by the Trump administration.
Time123 (9c409f) — 3/4/2025 @ 9:54 amHFC, I understand where you’re coming from.
1. I’m yet to see results that support the assertion that the GOP cares about the National Debt.
Time123 (9c409f) — 3/4/2025 @ 9:56 am2. I think the things I’ve listed will be cheaper in the long run.
3. I’’m sorry you’re mad that you think Europeans look down on you…but that’s not really something that motivates me.
Now instead of living in dreamland, how about some realistic goals that you actually expect to happen.
Russia is not leaving the occupied territories so where does that leave us in the real world.
NJRob (1a6de9) — 3/4/2025 @ 10:23 am@43 Hoping that the moron we elected president doesn’t give the them the rest of the country….or that it doesn’t turn into a decade long guerrilla war.
Time123 (9c409f) — 3/4/2025 @ 10:30 amPaul, Chris, anyone????
https://patterico.com/2025/02/28/weekend-open-thread-265/#comment-2850346
BuDuh (1f536d) — 3/4/2025 @ 10:37 amI can’t argue with this guy. Start the impeachments proceedings, Speaker Johnson.
Paul Montagu (8f08d3) — 3/4/2025 @ 10:39 amAsked and answered.
Paul Montagu (8f08d3) — 3/4/2025 @ 10:45 amSo the EU is aligned with the greater evil? I am not so sure you specifically said that, so I don’t want to put words in your mouth. That is my question.
BuDuh (1f536d) — 3/4/2025 @ 10:50 am42: Time123:
You’re right that the GOP barely cares, and the Dems not at all: After Nixon tried to use impoundment, the democrats litigated and legislated that into unconstitutionality. The GOP that cared about deficits THEN was pulverized in the 1970 midterms. Lesson learned: don’t be the one to end the party.
Any wish list has to be paid for–sooner or later. Nothing suggests that congress will overcome the government’s addiction to wasteful spending. UKE is just another demand on the US fisc, behind Israel, social security, Medicare, interest, defense, UN dues, the VA, maybe Taiwan, Japan, Korea, using 5,000 FBI agents to chase J6 day rioters and gawkers, student loans…. But UKE is at the bottom unless it does a mineral deal to help defray our cost. It has to be.
Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e) — 3/4/2025 @ 10:50 am@36
*yawn*
You are advocating an all out war, so why should I let your attempts of emotional blackmail affect me?
whembly (b7cc46) — 3/4/2025 @ 10:56 am@41
No, what derailed the news conference was Zelenskyy own baiting questions to both Trump and Vance.
Brother, I’ve made mention in numerous post here and in the previous Weekend update that I *do* believe in some sort of security guarantees.
Hell, even Trump mentioned in a stray comment, that he’d support idea of UK (Fr?) troops in UKE backstopped (tech/intelligence) by the US.
There’s a deal to be had.
Appeared based on what, Time123? Because I think you’re assuming quite a bit here.
whembly (b7cc46) — 3/4/2025 @ 11:00 amYou are advocating an all out war, so why should I let your attempts of emotional blackmail affect me?
I am advocating no such thing. YOU are the one advocating war by advocating weakness.
I am advocating standing in Putin’s way. No shot need be fired. You assume not only that he would choose war, but that he would choose nuclear war. If so he is a fcuk of a lot more dangerous than Stalin, who declined the fight.
Do you believe Reagan was a warmonger, what with his 1980s military build up? His forward deployment of Pershing II? Or was he a peacemaker, preventing a war that weakness would have invited?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/4/2025 @ 11:16 amTrump is a bully. Putin is a bigger bully. One thing about bullies: When faced by a bigger bully they retreat, then go find some little kid to beat up on, to show how strong they are.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/4/2025 @ 11:19 amAnd whembley we all see that you refused to defend your “common ground” tripe.
When has Trump ever sought “common ground”?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/4/2025 @ 11:21 am@52
You want *some* force to push Russia back to original borders.
That’s war.
lol.
“standing in Putin’s way” how Kevin.
whembly (b7cc46) — 3/4/2025 @ 11:26 am@54
Tripe?
Naw dawg…
whembly (b7cc46) — 3/4/2025 @ 11:27 amKevin, (and Time123), take a look at Konstitine Klim:
whembly (b7cc46) — 3/4/2025 @ 11:29 amhttps://youtu.be/WEGTOVYEoGE
Whembly, the commentary I’ve seen from Trump seem to rule out the following
-Continued arms to UKE
-NATO protection (I wouldn’t give them NATO membership either)
-US security guarantees for EU troops if they are deployed to maintain the border.
I also haven’t seen any Clear statements from Trump about how UKE security will be guaranteed going forward, or that RUS will have to accept that UKE will remain a free country.
He has made various asides, but this is Trump. He doesn’t parse his words carefully, he lies like he breaths and it’s easy to find some random utterance that’s contrary to what he’s generally saying if you’re so inclined.
Time123 (9c409f) — 3/4/2025 @ 11:31 amExclusive-US and Ukraine prepare to sign minerals deal on Tuesday, sources say
Sources says… we’ll see..
whembly (b7cc46) — 3/4/2025 @ 11:42 amIsn’t the line about US donating more then Europe a lie?
Time123 (9c409f) — 3/4/2025 @ 11:58 amPresident Zelenskyy tweeted:
Reading that, it seems as though President Trump is going to get his way.
Remember: the omnibus spending bill expires on the Ides of March, and Congress will have to reauthorize it. Congress can simply delete spending for any more weaponry for Ukraine, or spending to ship any waepons already authorized.
The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (0b0ac2) — 3/4/2025 @ 12:04 pmNaw dawg…
Still waiting to hear how Trump seeks “common ground” other than “I win”
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/4/2025 @ 12:04 pmDid I say that?
Paul Montagu (8f08d3) — 3/4/2025 @ 12:06 pm@61
Dunno where I saw it, I think on X somewhere, but in total assistance to Ukraine the European nations collectively has sent more than the US. But the US, by a far large share, has sent military assets to Ukraine than the EU.
I think that tracks…
What I do know, is that the European nations structured their assistance as a loan or lend-lease. Whereas up till now, the US assistance was given as a grant.
whembly (b7cc46) — 3/4/2025 @ 12:07 pm@63
…and you’re going to keep waiting until you stop being an arse.
whembly (b7cc46) — 3/4/2025 @ 12:07 pmMr Whembly wrote:
It wasn’t much of a much, because he left office very soon after that, and President Trump not only reversed Mr Biden’s actions, but added the “MOAB,” “Mother of all Bombs” to what we sent to Israel. At least some of the MOABs have already arrived in Israel.
The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (0b0ac2) — 3/4/2025 @ 12:09 pmIsn’t the line about US donating more then Europe a lie?
WSJ:
But the US provided more military aid than the EU.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/4/2025 @ 12:11 pm…and you’re going to keep waiting until you stop being an arse.
More dodging.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/4/2025 @ 12:12 pmMr M wrote:
Why should anyone seek “common ground” rather than “I win” in any negotiation? You should always seek the best you can get for your own position, rather than negotiating away part of your position before the negotiations start.
The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (0b0ac2) — 3/4/2025 @ 12:12 pmSince the EU operates on the principle of unanimity, any one of a number of countries (Hungary, Slovakia, for example) can veto any actions by the EU. And the EU QRF as of today exists only on paper.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/4/2025 @ 12:06 pm
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/4/2025 @ 12:14 pmThe other Dana has the right of it.
whembly (b7cc46) — 3/4/2025 @ 12:14 pmI wouldn’t know.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/4/2025 @ 12:16 pmWell would you look at that:
https://www.marinelink.com/news/hutchison-sells-panama-canal-ports-a-us-523087
It’s BlackRock though, so… obviously better than CCP.
BlackRock does have massive shipping co portfolio, so economically this makes sense.
whembly (b7cc46) — 3/4/2025 @ 12:20 pmWhy should anyone seek “common ground”
So, now we go from “we need to seek common ground” to “well, who wants that!?”
It happens that some young and particularly stupid lawyers try to pile everything on their side in a negotiation, but all that does is gets the other side to say “FU” and stomp off. It’s not the way to get agreement. It’s better to have a starting point that acknowledges that the other side has some needs, too.
The truth, which at least Dana admits, is that Trump has no interest in agreement or common ground. He wants capitulation.
I remind you of whembly’s apologism in #18, which he refuses to defend:
With the implication that it is Ukraine that is failing to seek this mythical “common ground.”
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/4/2025 @ 12:22 pmnk (31711d) — 3/4/2025 @ 3:37 am
That’s been the most obvious thing from before he was inaugurated.
He knows he is term limited and might have control of Congress for only two years and things might take longer than he would expect.
It may be that he feels he frittered away four years last time. Now he wants to do everything as soon as possible. He knows he’ll never get another chance to make waves.
Sammy Finkelman (0f1b38) — 3/4/2025 @ 12:23 pmTime123 (9c409f) — 3/4/2025 @ 5:17 am
He did not feel that Zelensky would agree to a deal like he wants,
Now, also, I don’t think he wants to turn Ukraine over to Russia (because that would harm his reputation among people who don’t hate or despise him. He doesn’t want to be remembered as another Biden Afghanistan let alone Chamberlain in Munich (which everyone fears)
It is just that he thinks he knows what will work.
And if it doesn’t work??
Don’t be too surprised if he turns on Putin if Putin does not play his assigned role.
Sammy Finkelman (0f1b38) — 3/4/2025 @ 12:31 pm@75
whembly (b7cc46) — 3/4/2025 @ 12:34 pmLooks like Zelenskyy wants back in…
*winks* common grounds established.
additional negotiations will commence.
ergg… formattings all jacked at @78, but ya’ll get the drift.
whembly (b7cc46) — 3/4/2025 @ 12:34 pmGoing to try some bullet formatted posts…
whembly (b7cc46) — 3/4/2025 @ 12:46 pmFirstly, My observation: Last Friday’s events were as they appeared, in that Zelenskyy erroneous blew up the meeting.
Speculation I’ve seen on X: Some posts suggest the “blow up” was orchestrated to:
*Build “tough on Ukraine” credibility for the eventual negotiations with Russia. But it’s a facade.
*Scare Europe into providing more aid to Ukraine.
*Time the mineral agreement with Trump’s State of the Union address.
Here’s my skepticism:
-Waaaay too many risks involved in such an act, that all sorts of things can go wrong.
-Trump’s reaction to Zelenskyy’s “you’ll feel it” warning seems way too genuine, even though up to that point Trump was eerily calm.
Conclusion: People often dive into conspiracy theories, but the simplest explanation is usually the truth.
Here’s some examples:
whembly (b7cc46) — 3/4/2025 @ 12:47 pmErm, none of the x post took. weird…
whembly (b7cc46) — 3/4/2025 @ 12:48 pm76: Sammy–right. The era of “NO’s.”
No naive belief that the Opposition will negotiate in good faith.
Or that the bedraggled, ascot-wearing remannts of the Romney-Ryan-National Review “Never Trump!” and “corporate tax cuts are all you need” GOP will do anything constructive.
Or that the legacy media that elevated Jim Acosta as a WH correspondent, and seems to consider Nicole Wallace as smart will treat him with any modicum of respect.
No good old boy AG that recuses himself for being in the same airport as a Russian ambassador on a week day;
No acting as if the vast bureaucracy won’t leak 24/7, and slow walk his directives.
Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e) — 3/4/2025 @ 12:52 pm*winks* common grounds established.
Trump’s way. As I said he show no interest in working with anyone except sychophants and people with guns at their heads.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/4/2025 @ 12:56 pmBut the US, by a far large share, has sent military assets to Ukraine than the EU.
Paul Montagu (8f08d3) — 3/4/2025 @ 12:57 pmNo, by a small share. The US has sent €64 billion and Europe €62 billion in military aid. In total aid, Europe has sent more.
No good old boy AG that recuses himself for being in the same airport as a Russian ambassador on a week day;
He replaced the former senator who endorsed him first for 2016 nomination with the anti-vaxxer who threw his one+ percent over to Trump, being the difference between another loss and Trump’s 2024 landslide.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/4/2025 @ 12:59 pmhttps://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2025/03/04/new-trump-credit-card-limit-for-bureaucrats-welcome-to-the-dollar-store-n3800411
LOL!
Welcome to the private sectors.
I have a corporate card that’s inactive until I submit a rationale request to my boss for signoff. Once signed, my card is active for what I need.
whembly (b7cc46) — 3/4/2025 @ 1:03 pm@85:
If those are the Kiel Institute’s numbers, I’ve only seen them as USD, but they track.
Also, this money is not shipped on pallets to Kiev. Most of it is spent right here, and of the $175 billion allocated, over $50 billion is spent on ancillary tasks like increased US forces in NATO countries.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/4/2025 @ 1:07 pmOT: Military Starship: How SpaceX Is About to Make America Globally Dominant
whembly (b7cc46) — 3/4/2025 @ 1:10 pmStarship makes possible a world where the U.S. can deploy an entire armored division anywhere on Earth in under an hour, and supply it entirely from home. “Hegemony” doesn’t begin to cover it.
Bruh…
Trump will have a brain explosion if Zelensky changes his mind again at the last minute- and decides not to sign.
steveg (c55fba) — 3/4/2025 @ 1:19 pmGuaranteed some Democrats are coaching Zelensky not to – I’d say it is in his best interest to sign.
“Bruh…”
My eyes rolled so hard I think I sprained something.
Davethulhu (14e9e4) — 3/4/2025 @ 1:20 pmThe question is what will happen if the Trump administration changes its mind and decides not to sign.
Rip Murdock (c69b2c) — 3/4/2025 @ 1:29 pmI can see this happening, with Trump saying to Z that you had your chance. It would be similar to what he’s said to Mexico and Canada: no more negotiations over tariffs, here they are.
Rip Murdock (c69b2c) — 3/4/2025 @ 1:42 pmEuro’s clearly see that they need to give Ukraine more aid and just as clearly do not want to do so
https://x.com/bonchieredstate/status/1896652035044610407/photo/1
steveg (c55fba) — 3/4/2025 @ 1:48 pmSummarizing the rare earth deal between Trump and Zelenskyy…
Putin invades.
Paul Montagu (8f08d3) — 3/4/2025 @ 2:08 pmTrump makes Ukraine pay.
Advantage Putin.
A country wants support they need to offer something in return. That’s call life.
NJRob (1a6de9) — 3/4/2025 @ 2:41 pmNo, that’s called indian giving, to be non-PC about it, but it’s worse than that because Trump didn’t give it in the first place, Biden did, as aid, not a loan.
But Trump is a bad faith bully and, instead of making Putin pay (the actual offender here), he’s making the victim of Putin’s war crimes pay. It’s the move of a buffoonish asshole.
Paul Montagu (8f08d3) — 3/4/2025 @ 2:51 pmA country wants support they need to offer something in return. That’s call life.
Just what we told France, England and Russia in WW2. Hey, wait, let’s tell Russia it’s time to pay their WW2 debt!
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/4/2025 @ 2:55 pmGuaranteed some Democrats are coaching Zelensky not to – I’d say it is in his best interest to sign.
Especially since the next Democrat president and Congress will change the terms.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/4/2025 @ 2:57 pmMilitary Starship: How SpaceX Is About to Make America Globally Dominant
It’s possible, but not the way you think. No matter how fast you can go from A to B, the military will still take weeks to line up the ducks.
OTOH, SpaceX has the lift power, reliability and repeatability to loft this. They could even do it in stealth mode with Spaceship, with a core of rods left to deploy later after releasing a bunch of StarLink sats.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/4/2025 @ 3:02 pmThe difference is the US made those deals upfront. This stuff from Rob and whembly is a slide into the MAGA BizarroWorld alt-universe.
Paul Montagu (8f08d3) — 3/4/2025 @ 3:03 pmFrom a speech by a great American, with loads more integrity and love for this country than Donald (the Weasel) Trump:
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/4/2025 @ 3:08 pm102- I guess then, the speech went on to say:
“Freedom is not free, except for nations that won’t pay for their own defense. For those, we must bear any burden, so that the right of Europeans to spend their own money on healthcare will not be infringed, since their rights are superior to our right to do the same.
“Americans know that by my remarks in post 102 above, I mean that the nations we help, should never be asked to aid in bearing the cost of their own defense. Even if we must borrow trillions that place us in debt. Even if we have many other world concerns requiring our attention. The roleof the American is to pay endlessly for the defensed of others, and it would be a vile betrayal of democracy to expect anyone else to bear some of the cost.
“Make no mistake: if the fire of freedom for people who decline to pay for it themelves requires the financial immolation on the United States, and deferral of dreams here at home to further those abroad, that is the true meaning of our role in the world.”
Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e) — 3/4/2025 @ 3:57 pm98-we required Britain to liquidate holdings abroad and pay for arms. We insisted on 99 year leases for bases in the carribean in return for some antiquated destroyers. When we were attacked we pretty much gave everyone a blank check
Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e) — 3/4/2025 @ 4:04 pm97:most of the Eu based money sent to Ukraine was/is loans, not grants. Most of the US money was grants, not loans.
Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e) — 3/4/2025 @ 4:07 pm86 Kevin– OK, but Biden had a VP – -not a cabinent sec a VP–so unpreared for national office that staple jokes abou Dan Quale and Spiro Agnew were supplanted.
Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e) — 3/4/2025 @ 4:10 pmsteveg (c55fba) — 3/4/2025 @ 1:19 pm
That some Democrats told Zelensky not to sign and that he decided not to sign are what was said on right wing talk radio – Senator Chris Murphy supposedly said that but nobody else said that. And supposedly Zelensky first said he would sign it in Munich and then in Washington, D.C.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/fact-check-zelenskyy-met-democrats-205100784.html (Lindsey Graham was there too among others)
President Trump kicked him out of the meeting not because he wouldn’t sign the deal, but because he kept on mentioning the idea of security guarantees and Trump was not ready to agree that they were needed.
Probably Trump judged that Zelensky would not agree to the deal he had in mind, but now Zelensky has proposed a partial immediate ceasefire.
You have to be careful believing anything that commonly circulates on right wing talk radio (and even more so Democratic claims)
You need to pay attention who does not repeat details.
Nobody associated with Trump said that Zelensky was not prepared to sign the deal and Vance gave quite another reason for Zelensky being dismissed. There’s not even a played or quoted tweet from Murphy – only that they said that he said.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/4/2025 @ 4:21 pmhttps://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-zelenskyy-meeting-with-democrats
Not rumors. Disinformation. Possibly Russian in origin even, although it could be MAGA activists.
And thisis attributed to Senator Chris Murphy – but there’s no direct quote from Murphy, as you would expect had Murphy really said or written that..
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/4/2025 @ 4:26 pmhttps://x.com/PhilHollowayEsq/status/1896067868443185506?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1896067868443185506%7Ctwgr%5E66cfb34b073bd0a63577dbed51d244c221383bcb%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.snopes.com%2Ffact-check%2Ftrump-zelenskyy-meeting-with-democrats%2F
https://x.com/ChrisMurphyCT/status/1895508100595204115?
Sammy,
if you weren’t so far down the rabbit hole, you could’ve done the 30 second search of Murphy’s account to find him saying just that.
Do better.
NJRob (1a6de9) — 3/4/2025 @ 4:33 pmThe disinformation got into Michael Goodwin’s column in the New York Post:
https://nypost.com/2025/03/01/opinion/dems-lead-zelensky-ukraine-off-a-cliff-with-pressure-to-reject-mineral-deal
This is what Senator Chris Murphy actually said: (Michael Goodwin quotes him)
End quote from Michael Goodwin’s column.
Nothing here in Murphy’s tweet about Zelensky agreeing not to sign the minerals agreement.
Zelensky was talking about what needed to be in an ultimate peace agreement and he wanted Trump to agree with that. Trump was not prepared to.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/4/2025 @ 4:35 pmHe (or his office) didn’t say that.
It’s either pro-Trump or Russian disinformation.
You are trusting the rightwing blogosphere too much and not paying careful attention to who says what.
It’s the entire MAGAsphere that went into the rabbit hole.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/4/2025 @ 4:38 pmThe minerals agreement DOES NOT = any peace agreement.
And nobody actually affiliated with Trump said, either in the open or anonymously on background, that Zelensky had refused to sign the minerals agreement.
That is plain fact.
Just like the fact that everybody gets wrong, because it is in nobody’s interest to correct it, that Joe Biden lied when he said he caused the firing of a Ukrainian prosecutor. (Trump had asked Zelensky in that famous 2019 call to check that out)
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/4/2025 @ 4:42 pmThe minerals deal was changed so as to be fair.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/4/2025 @ 4:43 pmIn 2019 Zelensky did not want to disabuse Trump of his ideas.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 3/4/2025 @ 4:44 pmAccording to this, 18% of Germans would fight for their country
https://x.com/DrEliDavid/status/1897035402177077434/photo/1
steveg (c55fba) — 3/4/2025 @ 4:56 pmOK, but Biden had a VP – -not a cabinent sec a VP–so unpreared for national office that staple jokes abou Dan Quale and Spiro Agnew were supplanted.
No argument. And they were the team that hogged the DNC nomination as disastrously as Trump hogged the GOP one. I had thought that the 2016 election was the worst that could ever be. But then came the next two, each with a worse choice than the last.
Both parties are broken.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/4/2025 @ 4:58 pmAccording to this, 18% of Germans would fight for their country
Is that higher or lower than the US?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/4/2025 @ 4:58 pmAccording to this, 18% of Germans would fight for their country
According to this UK man-on-the-street “Germans” or “Brits” should be in quotes
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/4/2025 @ 5:03 pmMr Whembly wrote:
[Pats self on back.]
The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (0b0ac2) — 3/4/2025 @ 5:17 pmhttps://www.gallup-international.com/survey-results-and-news/survey-result/fewer-people-are-willing-to-fight-for-their-country-compared-to-ten-years-ago
USA is at 41% in this poll
steveg (c55fba) — 3/4/2025 @ 5:27 pmMr M asked:
Answer:
That’s not the same number who would fight if we had to fight, but remember: the military were not reaching their recruitment goals throughout the Biden Administration.
The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (0b0ac2) — 3/4/2025 @ 5:37 pmI read about half the comments….
I may have missed this, but are there any voters who are protesting or rioting over the pause/cancellation of sending weapons to Ukraine.
Joe (584b3d) — 3/4/2025 @ 6:03 pmDoes the average “Joe”, care?
Trump speech to start late and continue very long it has been said.
Sammy Finkelman (e3ba85) — 3/4/2025 @ 6:16 pm#123 That speech length reminds me of various Latin America dictators, which is why I call the Loser’s followers, “Trumpistas”.
Is there any betting on the number of lies in the speech?
Jim Miller (d34848) — 3/4/2025 @ 7:06 pm124: I’m going to start counting right after “If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor,” “I will not pardon Hunter,” “The Inflation Reduction Act Will not trigger inflation,” “Bidenomics is working,” “I will not drop out,” and “we finally beat Medicare.”
Harcourt Fenton Mudd (dad422) — 3/4/2025 @ 7:13 pm“It was the best presidential speech in the history of the country”
–overheard shortly afterward
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/4/2025 @ 7:21 pmDoes the average “Joe”, care?
They won’t until they’re drafted to fight in Germany.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/4/2025 @ 7:22 pm@ Kevin M (a9545f) — 3/4/2025 @ 7:22 pm
Why would the votes approve of a draft to fight in Germany? We did that once, I am more concerned about the Mexican border.
Joe (584b3d) — 3/5/2025 @ 4:44 amThat’s the Way!
Once people get their minds right and understand that
nk (bb1548) — 3/5/2025 @ 5:26 am1) because John Dillinger robbed banks,
2) it is perfectly good for Bonnie and Clyde to rob banks,
3) as long as it’s not your bank,
then the Millenium will have come, and people will sell all their possessions and give the money to Mr. Trump, and propose marriage to Marjorie Taylor-Greene; and unbelievers will be cast to Denmark or some such other place where there will weeping and wailing and side effects from vaccines.
@98
Lend-Lease Act of 1941
..thats all.
whembly (b7cc46) — 3/5/2025 @ 6:11 am@126
lol… no. Listen to Reagan’s…his was dynomite.
This SOTUS is Trump repeatedly tea-bagging Democrats and spiking the football wins.
whembly (b7cc46) — 3/5/2025 @ 6:15 amTightening the squeeze:
Rip Murdock (c69b2c) — 3/5/2025 @ 7:28 amMr M wrote:
This is what people don’t yet understand. The Republican Party aren’t Mitch McConnell or Liz Cheney or Nikki Haley or even Donald Trump; the Republican Party are the great mass of Republican voters, and Mr Trump has recognized and energized that great mass of ordinary people, people who mostly like what he has said and like what he has done.
Budget cuts? Everyone has promised to streamline government and cut out “waste, fraud, and abuse,” but only Mr Trump, in his second term, is actually trying to do it. Joe Biden and Barack Hussein Obama and George Bush — both of them! — and Ronald Reagan all promised to solve the problem of illegal immigration, yet President Trump is the only one who’s actually trying to do it.
President Trump figured it out after his first term: going over everything with a fine toothed comb is an exercise in futility, so now he’s taking a battle axe to the government, and we’ll figure out later if there is anything which has been axed that should be restored. That’s something the working people of America see and mostly approve.
The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (0b0ac2) — 3/5/2025 @ 2:12 pmJoe wrote:
On August 12, 1941, Congress passed an extension of the Selective Service Act by one vote in the House of Representatives, not quite four months before Pearl Harbor, and after the war in Europe had been raging for just a month short of two years. A lot of Americans were very much opposed to getting involved in that European war, and there was significant opposition to the military aid President Roosevelt was giving to England and the Soviet Union. American support for getting involved in the war only came after we were attacked ourselves, and, even then, we did not declare war on Germany; Adolf Hitler declared war on the US on December 11, 1941.
The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (0b0ac2) — 3/5/2025 @ 2:31 pmCongressman turner dies after trump’s speech. Hopefully be replaced by more left democrat. Speakers chief of staff gets arrested for DWI after speech. If anymore carnage I will report it.
asset (3fe2ba) — 3/5/2025 @ 3:09 pm