President Trump Is Wrong When He Says That Putin Wants Peace Just Like Zelensky Does
[guest post by Dana]
One thing we can say with certainty concerning Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine and the subsequent war, is that the very thing that Vladimir Putin is definitely not interested in, is peace. Especially not with President Zelensky and the Ukrainian people. The reason we know this is that Russian troops have not been ordered out of Ukraine and the illegally occupied territories are not under Ukraine’s authority. Moreover, when Putin is aggressively continuing the advance on Ukraine every single day and with another attack on Kyiv tonight, what makes anyone think he wants peace? What a childishly dangerous notion.
Additionally, while there has certainly been “totally unnecessary, DEATH and DESTRUCTION,” it’s vital to name the one who caused it in the first place. And in this case, without a doubt, all of the responsibility and guilt lay solely with Vladimir Putin. Full stop. To not make this unequivocally clear at every opportunity is to intentionally insinuate that President Zelensky also caused “totally unnecessary, DEATH and DESTRUCTION,” which is not accurate.
Thus, President Trump’s comments about the situation, while unsurprising, are troubling. Some might excuse him, saying that he is just trying to be even-handed before peace talks happen, or perhaps he is making sure he doesn’t irk his pal Vlad, with whom he chatted with for 90 minutes on the phone. Regardless, I can’t give him the benefit of the doubt. He doesn’t deserve it: his history gives proof of that. Especially, especially when he equates President Putin with President Zelensky:
I just spoke to President Volodymyr Zelenskyy of Ukraine. The conversation went very well. He, like President Putin, wants to make PEACE. We discussed a variety of topics having to do with the War, but mostly, the meeting that is being set up on Friday in Munich, where Vice President JD Vance and Secretary of State Marco Rubio will lead the Delegation. I am hopeful that the results of that meeting will be positive. It is time to stop this ridiculous War, where there has been massive, and totally unnecessary, DEATH and DESTRUCTION. God bless the people of Russia and Ukraine!
Plus:
REPORTER: Do you view Ukraine as an equal member of this peace process?
TRUMP: Ummmm … it's an interesting question. I think they have to make peace. That was not a good war to go into. pic.twitter.com/zKHEyCQmXd
— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) February 12, 2025
Dumb Ukraine, choosing to go to war with Russia!! What a bunch of chumps!
With each passing day, I fear more and more for Ukraine’s future. Watching the President of the United States make an absolutely insane statement like the one above, and being too afraid (or too complicit with Putin) to put the blame for the war where it belongs, is utterly demoralizing. This, especially when coupled with U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth’s comments yesterday that the U.S. does not believe that Ukraine becoming a member of NATO is a “realistic outcome” of any negotiated peace settlement and that Russia should be allowed to keep some of Ukraine’s territories.
There is only one way for this war to end with Ukraine not being subsumed by Russia and Europe not having to prepare for war.
"They're celebrating in the Kremlin right now, they're popping Champagne."
Putin critic and financier, Bill Browder, says Trump's announcement about the war in Ukraine is his 'worst nightmare' come true. #Newsnight pic.twitter.com/CUYUsNWHa3
— BBC Newsnight (@BBCNewsnight) February 12, 2025
—Dana
Hello.
Dana (fca1e3) — 2/12/2025 @ 8:55 pmIndeed.
Paul Montagu (c36845) — 2/12/2025 @ 9:12 pmIf Putin wanted peace, he could have it tomorrow, by ordering his military to stop the illegal invasion and occupation.
Honestly, why doesn’t Trump just tell Zelensky he wants him to surrender to Russia and just get it over with. Because, to me, this is where these peace talks will be leading. If Ukraine has to give up anything, then Russia wins.
Dana (aea8d5) — 2/12/2025 @ 9:28 pmI predicted this weeks ago.
Russia will make something between no concessions and a token concession of territory, but will keep the vast majority of the land it has taken.
Ukraine will not be allowed into NATO, but will get some kind of worthless security guarantee. Budapest Memorandum 2.0.
Trump will say it’s a great deal, and yay, we have peace.
Putin gets rewarded for the invasion by keeping most or all of the area he has occupied.
Cue the people who say that Ukraine cannot win, even though we’ve never tried full and unconditional support. And no, I don’t mean U.S. troops, you would-be straw men attackers.
norcal (a72384) — 2/12/2025 @ 9:47 pmLet’s be serious. I was happy to bleed Putin, but nothing is forever. Ukraine lacks staying power, and the EU has not mobilized for war. Despite the 2022 invasion, Germany still–still–has barely any operable fighter planes, and most EU countries have barely hit the 2% of GDP for military expenses. We still bear half or more than half of the expenses for a war in the EU’s backyard.
Those content to watch a generation of the Ukraine ground into meat, are not volunteering to go to the front themselves. Those anxious to have the US pay billions for the Ukraine (including pensions for its officials, which the founding Fathers did not collect), and while we borrow $2 Trillion a year, are not liquidating their assets for this vanity project for western liberals.
Want to be taken seriously? Go to the front. Liquidate your assets. Pledge your sons.
Its time to see if this can be stopped, despite legions of keyboard warriors anxious for others to die and pay.
Its unfortunate that Putin may keep parts of the land he stole, because he is a bad man. But short of US troops, that is going to be the outcome anyway.
Oh- – as for “Putin critic” Mr. Browder, spare me: his grandfather reportedly decided to become a proud communist, which leaves me cold. And Putin “critic” Browder was a heavy investor in Russia who seems to have soured on Russia and Putin only after they soured on him in the 90’s. He also reportedly relinquished his US Citizenship, which also leaves me cold. And perhaps I missed it, but he does not appear to have liquidated his sizeable assets to aid the Ukraine. So its just fine that he is a Putin “critic.” Being a critic is easy. Being a Putin opponent is hard.
Time to swallow a dose of reality, unpleasant as it may be. Time also to perhaps stop bashing the politician that sees that.
Harcourt Fenton Mudd (bc8284) — 2/12/2025 @ 9:51 pmHFM…
One, Ukraine has been short-changed from practically Day One, thanks in large part to Biden, who showed no real leadership to European leaders. I hope Trump holds to his word that he’ll send Ukraine weapons for as long as Putin continues to wage war.
Two, your silence about the devastation Russian mobiks have faced speaks volumes, and it’s only exacerbated the Russian demographic spiral.
Putin is paying a dear price for his geostrategically disastrous decision to invade. Trump would be doing the world a disservice to not make Putin pay for that choice.
Three, Browder should be commended for getting the Magnitsky Act passed, and it’s a law that Putin has chafed at ever since. Recall the infamous Trump Tower meeting, where Veselnitskaya teased Team Trump about Hillary but then bait-and-switched with Magnitsky.
Paul Montagu (c36845) — 2/12/2025 @ 10:17 pmI hope Trump holds to his word that he’ll send Ukraine weapons for as long as Putin continues to wage war.
Paul Montagu (c36845) — 2/12/2025 @ 10:17 pm
Trump will send weapons as long as Ukraine makes the territorial concessions he demands of them. In other words, it will be a deal Ukraine can’t refuse.
Peace in our time!
norcal (a72384) — 2/12/2025 @ 10:26 pmNevile chamberlin munich 1938. Also he wanted franco to win the spanish civil war. Elections have consequences. Lets hope the next one has consequences for trump.
asset (3c6038) — 2/13/2025 @ 2:32 am@3
Under what circumstances do you think Putin would give up Crimea and the Donbass?
I need some to spell it out. What is it you want the US to do, what the EU to do, what the Ukraine to do, and how you anticipate Russia will react.
whembly (b7cc46) — 2/13/2025 @ 6:21 am6, PM: Your “One” is correct but omits the “why.” The “why” is that the view lacks wide support, except among people who are not going to the front themselves.
The US as a whole does not support the “real” war effort that would involve attacks well behind the “lines.” Like the intentional or accidental death of large numbers of civilians, damage to Russia’s critical infrastructure, like pipelines, processing plants, and barracks. That would trigger an escalated response. Who is ready for that?
Have you talked to US kids ages 17 and up about your plans that might involve them if Russia ups the ante and uses theatre level nukes? Or blacks in Chicago rightfully objecting to millions for migrants–and you want them to agree to billions go to Ukraine? And we’re borrowing all this!
So as in Vietnam, where we purposefully did not bomb soviet ships in Haiphong Harbor, (Nixon mined Haiphong but that was itself a deescalated response), we pull punches. Because we are not the world’s policeman. The US is simply not willing to put itself “out there” for the Ukraine. And neither is the paper shuffling EU military–which ought to be shouldering 80% of the effort.
No one wants to see the bad guy win: but as I said, Ukraine can’t hold it. too bad its not an island like Britain was in 1939
Second, yes we have done damage to Russia’s troops, but how long do you expect this to go on? (see discussion above). And we have China to deal with.
Third, sorry, I’m unimpressed by this guy: everyone can urge the Ukraine to fight: when he liquidates his assets for the Ukraine, he’ll be an opponent.
Putin is bad: no argument there. But I’m looking at what seems to be reality.
Harcourt Fenton Mudd (bc8284) — 2/13/2025 @ 7:11 amOne, Putin has made dozens of nuclear threats, and his “red line” was crossed every time. They’re empty threats.
Two, he’s a product of the Cold War, and understands MAD as well as anyone. He made a terrifically bad decision about his invasion, but he’s not nuts. Any use of nuclear weapons by him will could way more blowback against his regime.
Three, it remains that our military aid to Ukraine has been highly effective at grinding his invasion to a halt for over two years, and it coulda been more effective had Biden not been such a big pizda.
Four, the problem with Trump-Hegseth yesterday was their leaning on the side of evil, calling Putin first (Zelenskyy next), inviting Trump to the White House (but not Zelenskyy), already acquiescing to Putin on the territory he’s taken, and having Zelenskyy make concessions but not demanding that Putin make any. Trump is poised to sell out Ukraine while declaring peace in our time.
Paul Montagu (c36845) — 2/13/2025 @ 7:45 am…will cause more blowback…
Paul Montagu (c36845) — 2/13/2025 @ 7:46 amUkrainians won’t get any traction from Kash Patel, who took $24k in cash “in 2024 by a U.S.-Russian film company tied to Kremlin-backed conspiracy content.”
Paul Montagu (c36845) — 2/13/2025 @ 8:09 amI’m gonna push back a bit here. Putin DOES want the war to stop as the cost to Russia is mounting. But not without something he can call victory. In reality anything that leaves most of Ukraine intact is a defeat, but he can spin it. But his position is weak, and if the talks collapse there has to be a concern that Ukraine will get more, and better, backing.
So, Ukraine has to accept the loss of Donbas by force of arms, has to retreat from Kursk, and has to accept Russian Crimea. In return for that they MUST insist on NATO membership. If that fails, then maybe individual mutual defense treaties with the US and UK and NATO later. But any territorial agreement that does not have a line in the sand will just have Putin back in a few years.
What concerns me most is that we seem to be negotiating for Ukraine, much the way Chamberlain negotiated for Czechoslovakia. It’s good that they are holding the talks in Munich.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 2/13/2025 @ 8:28 amif Russia ups the ante and uses theatre level nukes?
If they do that the betting is that the world ends, so who cares.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 2/13/2025 @ 8:30 amWith the US, Slovakia, Hungary, and Germany opposed to Ukraine joining NATO, that’s a non-starter. Under what circumstances do you see the US signing a mutual defense treaty with Ukraine, given the antipathy of President Trump toward alliances and the comments by the Secretary of Defense?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/13/2025 @ 9:16 amHegseth declared while visiting NATO headquarters that the US will not back any European troop commitment to Ukraine under Article 5 of the NATO treaty, so that’s a non-starter also.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/13/2025 @ 9:26 amUkraine can insist all they want, but it ain’t gonna happen.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/13/2025 @ 9:28 am11. “understands MAD..” To be sure he does. But WHO would launch in response to Putin’s use of theatre grade mukes (if he did). The EU? Obviiusly not.
So you’re saying that the US should enable more aggressive and effective attacks by the Ukraine, which risks Putin’s use of “low level” nukes, and then in response, WE launch and put US cities at risk? Not what I think people have in mind.
Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e) — 2/13/2025 @ 10:27 amI’m saying that Putin understands MAD, which is why his threats are empty. He gains nothing by going nuclear.
Paul Montagu (c36845) — 2/13/2025 @ 10:56 amQuite true.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/13/2025 @ 11:47 amDuring Biden Admin. I was not sure that a Putin tactical nuke use would trigger MAD. Still not sure. I think we’d go nuclear on sanctions-for a time- but Europe is drawn to cheap Russian energy like a moth to a flame. Europe is also actively circumventing trade sanctions by using third party nations like Kazakhstan.
steveg (c55fba) — 2/13/2025 @ 11:58 amPaul Montagu (c36845) — 2/12/2025 @ 9:12 pm
If that was all that Putin wanted.
The question is what price is he willing to pay for peace and
what does he want.what will he take in return for ending the war and what practical assurances will he give Ukraine that the war is over. What will he do order to stop the war?It’s clear that at first Putin will ask for a lot more – even de facto Ukrainian defeat. Putin left himself some escape clauses.
Trump’s statement is ridiculous and he seems to be afraid that Putin will back off his peace consideration. He’s willing to let Putin claim righteousness.
Trump stands to be embarrassed if he does not get a peace or ceasefire agreement or if something bad happens to Ukraine.
One good sign Or bad sign. The North Korean troops left – and then came back to Russia,
One possibility. The U.S. making a deal with Ukraine to let U,S, companies mine in eastern Ukraine This would be contingent on Russian non-interference,
Sammy Finkelman (c143ba) — 2/13/2025 @ 12:12 pmYou can find out very fast if Putin is serious.
Sammy Finkelman (c143ba) — 2/13/2025 @ 12:14 pmsome NATO countries, maybe France or Poland even without a treaty. Putin needs to demobilize.
Sammy Finkelman (c143ba) — 2/13/2025 @ 12:18 pmMore than half of Ukraine’s rare earths are located in Russian held territory. I don’t think Russia will give them up.
Rip Murdock (03fbfb) — 2/13/2025 @ 1:08 pmNo European country will take on Russia without the implicit backing of the United States. Not gonna happen.
Rip Murdock (03fbfb) — 2/13/2025 @ 1:10 pmTrump is incapable of embarrassment. He just will declare victory and not care if something “bad” happens to Ukraine. He’s already said that he expects Ukraine may be Russian “someday.”
Rip Murdock (03fbfb) — 2/13/2025 @ 1:16 pmWho is going to provide the ground troops to wrestle Crimea away from and entrenched Russia?
steveg (c55fba) — 2/13/2025 @ 1:41 pmThe best the coalition has been able to do is to lose ground incrementally.
The loser die was cast over the last two years and Putin burrowed in like a tick on a dogs butt
Again, can someone describe under what circumstances do you think Putin would give up Crimea and the Donbass?
I need some to spell it out. What is it you want the US to do, what the EU to do, what the Ukraine to do, and how you anticipate Russia will react.
If that’s your premise, how does Russia lose?
whembly (b7cc46) — 2/13/2025 @ 1:54 pmTrump says cut military spending in half. The m.i.c. might object to being kicked off of their welfare. Jd vance better get prepared.
asset (36962e) — 2/13/2025 @ 2:00 pmThis discussion is premature, and especially the defeatism.
Let’s not altogether buy into Trump’s delusion that he is consequential.
Zelensky has Trump’s number and so does Putin.
Maybe they will give him a cookie and maybe not.
The end result will depend on the respective wills of the Ukrainians and the Russians.
nk (88e4ea) — 2/13/2025 @ 2:36 pmWith the US, Slovakia, Hungary, and Germany opposed to Ukraine joining NATO,
ONLY the US matters there. Germany will do what we tell them to do, and you can buy Slovakia and Hungary’s vote for chump change. As for what the US wants, it depends. Hegseth coupled NATO and return to previous borders, and he’s right all that isn’t likely. But that is not the official US position:
Kevin M (a9545f) — 2/13/2025 @ 3:33 pmDonald Trump wants talks on military spending cuts with Russia, China
And gotta love their Trump photo. It may show a bit of bias.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 2/13/2025 @ 3:38 pmI think the SECDEF’s and President Trump’s comment’s are more relevant to what the US position is than some deputy Ukraine envoy.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/13/2025 @ 3:39 pmUnder what circumstances do you see the US signing a mutual defense treaty with Ukraine
If it gets Trump his Peace Prize. Although Oslo would probably give it to Putin, just to snub trump.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 2/13/2025 @ 3:41 pmWhat does SECDEF matter with foreign policy? Not his lane. Rubio’s statements would matter, but he’s not said a word on this subject.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 2/13/2025 @ 3:42 pmHegseth can speak authoritatively on what he thinks the role of the US military and where it should/should not be involved in the world. He’s redrawn our redline. No US military (or Article 5 backstop for Europe; and you’ve haven’t heard any pushback from Trump. Hegseth has met with more foreign leaders in the past week than Rubio in the same timeframe, and in a more consequential part of the world. There’s no hot war in Central America.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/13/2025 @ 3:54 pmRubio will be lucky to last two years before being marginalized by Trump’s special envoys.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/13/2025 @ 3:56 pmWhat does SECDEF matter with foreign policy?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 2/13/2025 @ 3:42 pm
Do you really think a Trump toadie like Hegseth is going to say anything contrary to what the boss thinks?
Besides, Trump has already said as much.
The deputy envoy is trying to set an opening position after Trump has already given away half the store.
norcal (a72384) — 2/13/2025 @ 3:59 pmIna press conference today, Trump, in passing, said Russia was responsible for the war in Ukraine: But maybe this might be from an earlier press conference
https://www.rev.com/transcripts/trump-holds-news-conference-at-mar-a-lago
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 2/13/2025 @ 4:01 pmWhat he said today was that if Russia had not been kicked out of the G-8 it wouldn’t have happened, and if he had been president after 2020, it (surely) would not have happened. He said when he was president before it was already back to the G-7.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 2/13/2025 @ 4:04 pmTrump, asked a question, agrees that Xi would permit the sale of Tik-Tok.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 2/13/2025 @ 4:05 pmI’m disposed to take a “wait and see” approach with Trump on this—it’s always best way to approach his bombast.
Hegseth’s remarks are Hegseth playing big meanie with Europe.
5% for defense? Probably trying to nudge them up to 2.5-3%. When Hegseth said “5%” everyone in the room except Poland let out an involuntary gasp.
No NATO, No Article 5 is a way of challenging their stomach for a fight- let’s be honest, Europe could fight Russia without us, but the minute we show up in force, they are going to disappear- they have no stomach for sanctions that hurt their economies and threaten their social systems, their standard of living by even a %, so they are getting “bad cop” Hegseth taking a position that says “put your money and machines on the line”. They won’t. (Poland, maybe Sweden would step up, but they know the rest of Europe would step back)
Between the US and EU, all that has been funded and resourced is just enough to keep Ukraine from tipping and now Russia is ensconced.
The EU members are already circumventing sanctions- are sanctions going to wedge Russia out of Crimea, Luhansk, Donetsk? No. Can Russian troops be forced out of those areas without the Russians running a strong indigenous “resistance” for decades? No. Those three areas are Russian non-negotiable, and I’d say impossible to regain now.
I also don’t think Hegseth hurts us with NATO vs China in the Pacific/Taiwan. We should not have ever planned on NATO doing much if anything to help us there anyway. UK “might” help, let us use bases, maybe send a frigate, some spy flights. The rest were always going to -at best- send half hearted get well soon cards
steveg (35fbb9) — 2/13/2025 @ 5:38 pmThe deputy envoy is trying to set an opening position after Trump has already given away half the store.
This may be why both Ukraine and the EU are demanding a seat at the table, and why Putin wants to “negotiate” with Trump, just like the CA Teacher’s Union wants to “negotiate” with Newsom.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 2/13/2025 @ 6:48 pmObama gave Iraq to Iranian hegemony in order to 1) satisfy a campaign pledge and 2) paint W’s policies as failed. It may be that Trump is as petty.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 2/13/2025 @ 6:52 pmOne, blowing up the Kerch bridge to a fine rubble, which cuts off supply lines.
Paul Montagu (c36845) — 2/13/2025 @ 9:16 pmTwo, reclaiming occupied territory with the weapons Zelenskyy has been requesting, which would be easier with a blown-up Kerch bridge.
The objective is to get Putin to a point where he can declare victory and end his aggression.
@47
Who blows up that bridge? Ukraine has tried several times (successfully a few times??) and Russia simply rebuilds it.
So…
Current state?
How’s that going?
whembly (b7cc46) — 2/14/2025 @ 6:57 amOne, the WSJ on Trump’s kneeling before Vlad the Terrorist.
Ukraine is a sovereign state with a right to exist, so they need to be an equal partner at the negotiating table. Instead, Trump treats friends and allies like adversaries, and he treats hostile terrorist Putin like a Mar-A-Lago VIP.
Two, NY Post actually has someone who will tell it like it is about Putin.
Back during the Cold War, conservatives knew that Soviet Russians were engaged in a massive propaganda operation and pushed back against it. Today, Trump and his right-wing base are embracing the former KGB colonel’s disinformation campaign. None of that is good for the nation.
Paul Montagu (c36845) — 2/14/2025 @ 7:04 amYou asked the question, I answered it. Your goalpost moving is noted.
Paul Montagu (c36845) — 2/14/2025 @ 7:05 amHow soon we forget
Kevin M (a9545f) — 2/14/2025 @ 7:25 amHere’s the current headline over at Political Betting: “What Brits think about the Big Mac eating surrender monkey’s plans for Ukraine”. https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2025/02/14/what-brits-think-about-the-big-mac-eating-surrender-monkeys-plans-for-ukraine/
Jim Miller (039bdd) — 2/14/2025 @ 7:35 amThis analysis by Forbes gives me one more reason to call him a Loser.
Jim Miller (039bdd) — 2/14/2025 @ 7:40 amPutin obliquely threatens a tactical nuke strike
https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/14/europe/russia-ukraine-drones-chernobyl-intl-hnk/index.html
steveg (35fbb9) — 2/14/2025 @ 11:19 amJim
He has the balls to risk big losses in real estate.
steveg (35fbb9) — 2/14/2025 @ 11:30 amI don’t, although I’ve made many investments, some winners, some losers. Net wins are what matters.
the riskiest investments have carried high rewards and have made up for all the losses along the way- but lack of balls had me selling Nvidia in 2019
Land is hardest for me. I own acres of fruit trees, operating at a loss, but I plan to be allowed to build someday.