Trump To Putin
[guest post by Dana]
President Trump issued his first official “warning” to Putin regarding the war in Ukraine:
I’m not looking to hurt Russia. I love the Russian people, and always had a very good relationship with President Putin – and this despite the Radical Left’s Russia, Russia, Russia HOAX. We must never forget that Russia helped us win the Second World War, losing almost 60,000,000 lives in the process. All of that being said, I’m going to do Russia, whose Economy is failing, and President Putin, a very big FAVOR. Settle now, and STOP this ridiculous War! IT’S ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE. If we don’t make a “deal,” and soon, I have no other choice but to put high levels of Taxes, Tariffs, and Sanctions on anything being sold by Russia to the United States, and various other participating countries. Let’s get this war, which never would have started if I were President, over with! We can do it the easy way, or the hard way – and the easy way is always better. It’s time to “MAKE A DEAL.” NO MORE LIVES SHOULD BE LOST!!!
While Putin is shaking in his boots laughing his ass off, there is really only one way that this war can end with the best interests of freedom-loving countries being met: Ukraine must be provided with the weapons and monetary aide that their experts have deemed necessary for Ukraine to completely push out Russian troops. This must be done with such a show of power that it will be a very, very long time before Putin tries to start an unprovoked war again with Ukraine. He must know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that illegally attacking Ukraine inside of its borders, with a goal of subsuming the sovereign nation, is an absolute non-starter because Western allies stand united against such aggression, not just in word, but also in unified action to eliminate the invaders. One hopes that Ukraine will be admitted to NATO, sooner rather than later, which would ensure that Putin would have second thoughts about his dreams of domination.
I hope President Trump has more in his toolbox to aid Ukraine than just words that sound like they’re from an old black and white mobster movie. I hope that those with whom he has charged to oversee all matters concerning Ukraine are on the ball. We already know, from previous administrations, that appeasing the enemy and incremental steps in aiding Ukraine aren’t the answer. So why try. Why make idle threats, or threats about tariffs, taxes, and sanctions when we already know that those actions won’t end the war. Let’s hope something substantive and effective is put into place. Such as, “pushing for $300bn. . . of frozen Russian assets to be used to fund Kyiv’s military,” and “promising more made in USA weapons and aid until Russia leaves.” Because the fact of the matter is: “looking for common ground with a war criminal leading a terrorist regime invading Europe,” Will. Not. Work. Fortunately, what we do know about Trump, is that he doesn’t want to look like a squishy loser, appear faint of heart, or as if he is afraid to pull the trigger. So there’s that. Ultimately, though, I just really hope that President Trump actually wants Ukraine to win this war. Western Europe as well.
—Dana
Hello.
Dana (5a07e7) — 1/22/2025 @ 1:23 pmEvery bit, Dana.
Paul Montagu (074d4e) — 1/22/2025 @ 1:34 pmBefore Putin’s Big Escalation, Russia was our 30th largest trading partner, so tariffs are pointless.
Sanctions are better, but they don’t change a dictator’s behavior.
If Trump really wants to end Putin’s invasion (no, this is not the “Ukraine War”), give Ukraine the weapons they’re requesting so they’ll have an honest shot at pushing back the mobiks.
Thanks, Paul Montagu. I just don’t think this will be a priority for Trump. I suppose only because Russia has nukes… at least one hopes.
Dana (ef8b43) — 1/22/2025 @ 2:47 pmThat is so well-stated, Dana. I hope Trump does what you suggest.
norcal (a72384) — 1/22/2025 @ 3:06 pmThx, norcal. How do you suppose Trump will act re this?
Dana (610bd2) — 1/22/2025 @ 3:11 pmHow did Biden not stop all items from being sold from Russia to the US?
I guess Biden loved him some Putin. There is no other explanation for a continued financial relationship with that dictator.
BuDuh (2e2fb6) — 1/22/2025 @ 3:51 pmMaybe trump will have better luck then nevile chamberlin.
asset (c6b5c7) — 1/22/2025 @ 3:54 pmRussia’s economy is ready to topple, so it doesn’t hurt to see if economic threats can bring peace talks at this point in the war. I don’t think Trump sounds optimistic they will.
Classic Trump threat- open with flattery.
I think the Trump Doctrine is going to be to use economic muscle before the military, and if it comes to the military, he’d like to see European lives, European weapons put on the line first.
My personal feeling is that economics alone won’t work, but I’ll give it a try (along with maintaining currently promised weapons to Ukraine) for 4-6 months.
Europe could handle this on its own in a year. And they should. Europe would like us to take over and carry the whole load.
steveg (cdf9e5) — 1/22/2025 @ 3:58 pmSo what exactly would be the cost of that funding. Are you saying we send troops? Or just money.
Joe (584b3d) — 1/22/2025 @ 4:13 pmWe have given them lots, and they are still loosing.
War to the last Ukraine.
Thx, norcal. How do you suppose Trump will act re this?
Dana (610bd2) — 1/22/2025 @ 3:11 pm
I suppose Trump will push for a deal where Russia makes a token concession that will be far short of returning to the pre-invasion borders. Trump will call it the best deal ever, when in fact it will be a U.S.-approved reward for invading Ukraine.
norcal (a72384) — 1/22/2025 @ 4:43 pmLet’s believe it when we see it. If the prospect of a Nobel Peace Prize results in a net savings of one life –Ukrainian, Russian, Israeli, Palestinian — I will not begrudge him.
nk (cb4a5f) — 1/22/2025 @ 4:59 pmAny additional sanctions or tariffs on Russia will just be scraping the bottom of the barrel. US imports from Russia fell from $34B in 2011 to $2.8B in 2024, or approximately -91%. Imports during the Biden administration fell from $29.6B in 2021 to $2.8B in 2024, or -80.5%.
Trump has been carrying Putin’s water since his first administration, and there is no reason to expect his second term will be any different.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/22/2025 @ 5:39 pmFood price inflation in Russia
https://meduza.io/en/short/2025/01/22/sticker-shock
“Data from Russia’s Federal State Statistics Service (Rosstat) shows that the food item with the biggest price jump in 2024 was potatoes, which saw a nearly 92 percent increase from December 2023 to December 2024, according to RBC. Prices for onions, cabbage, and red caviar also rose significantly. Butter, which received widespread attention in Russian media last year for its rising cost, comes in fifth on the list, with a 36 percent increase. To address the soaring prices, Russia started importing butter from Turkey and the UAE. Overall, vegetables and fruits grew more expensive by 22 percent year-on-year. On the other hand, some products became cheaper in 2024, with buckwheat dropping by 6.4 percent and eggs by 11.2 percent, according to Rosstat.”
Butter imported from the UAE? They must be brokering and/or repackaging
steveg (cdf9e5) — 1/22/2025 @ 6:19 pmhttps://x.com/wartranslated/status/1882180801573392671
“Today’s rather sharp statement from Trump has been interpreted by Russian radicals not only as an ultimatum but also as a direct insult. They are convinced that their patron Putin would never agree to any concessions, which in their eyes means Trump is deliberately sabotaging the negotiations. As a result, Russians are furious, since they’ve been unable to achieve a breakthrough on the frontlines. Even the full occupation of the four claimed regions remains a distant and uncertain goal, if it’s even achievable at all.
“Trump didn’t bother to outline a plausible scenario for such a deal. Surely, he must understand that Putin cannot simply stop the war—his hordes have no alternative but to keep going forward. No one wants them back in russia.”
steveg (cdf9e5) — 1/22/2025 @ 6:35 pmHere’s the paradox: it’s essential that Russia be militarily forced out of Ukraine, but that’s probably impossible. IMO a deal allowing Russia to keep part of Ukraine is the best we can hope for. But, the deal must be somehow structured to prevent Russia from invading again and grabbing more land.
David in Cal (486a85) — 1/22/2025 @ 6:45 pm#13 Some Arab states, presumably the UAE among them, import hay from the United States to feed their animals.
(The Saudis even “mine” water in Arizona to grow alfalfa there, to be shipped to the Gulf states. I don’t know how that came about, but think we should end it.)
Does it make economic sense to ship hay half way around the world, rather than shipping the milk and butter it produces? Probably not.)
Jim Miller (7c3d63) — 1/22/2025 @ 6:47 pmThe Russian’s like to forget that without western weapons, they’d not have been able to mount a counter-offensive in WWII
Russia’s idea of combined arms is two one armed amputee laborers unloading ammunition from a “Loaf” by hand
That slight aside, the Russians do have good FPV drone warfare teams. They’ll kill a lot of French Foreign Legionnaires with drones if Europe chooses to fight.
steveg (cdf9e5) — 1/22/2025 @ 6:51 pm(I pick the FFL and the Poles as most likely to die for Europe because Europeans are soft. Russia can’t handle newer European stand off weapons- they struggle with decertified 1980s and 1990s tech now)
5. Well since Trump sent real weapons to Ukraine when Obama did not; opposed Nordstream 2 pipeline while Biden let it proceed; and urged NATO to beef up its military forces – -whereas everyone else –the “Smart People–were too “polite” to do that – -I’d say he is a real deal and not a platitude man. But a deal may be the best way to stop the killing. Unfortunate, but once war starts, it can be shut down or grind on. The latter is not always the best idea.
Harcourt Fenton Mudd (2d275d) — 1/22/2025 @ 6:59 pmTrump is a vindictive, thin-skinned assh0le. This could work in Ukraine’s favor here.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/22/2025 @ 7:14 pmI agree, and Trump put the ball in Putin’s court, not Zelenskyy’s, which was the right thing to do.
Paul Montagu (3bccc6) — 1/22/2025 @ 7:42 pmThe risk is that Putin will offer a meaningless concession that add nothing, and Trump will declare victory, and will then pressure Zelenskyy to drop his drawers.
I think that’s exactly right.
Rip Murdock (8907f7) — 1/22/2025 @ 7:49 pmThe Nord Stream 2 pipeline was completed in September 2021, so when Biden took office it was virtually finished; and has never entered service. Pipe A was damaged when the Ukrainians blew up Nord Stream I, and Pipe B is inactive.
I’m unable to find any actions that Trump took to stop Nord Stream during his first term, like sanctions against Russia or other countries.
Rip Murdock (8907f7) — 1/22/2025 @ 8:08 pmI totally agree. 👍
Rip Murdock (8907f7) — 1/22/2025 @ 8:09 pmIn fact , the Trump Administration I grandfathered the Nord Stream 2 pipeline in such a way that Gazprom and other companies avoided Congressionally-mandated sanctions.
Rip Murdock (8907f7) — 1/22/2025 @ 8:28 pmTrump sanctioned the main contractor, when the pipeline was 90% complete. The practical effect is that it slowed construction a bit, until Russia took over and finished.
Biden’s lifting the sanction was pointless and stupid, a pointless nod to outgoing lame-duck Angela Merkel, who did nothing to help Ukraine and who sabotaged German nuclear energy.
Paul Montagu (3bccc6) — 1/22/2025 @ 9:32 pm25. Not so fast: Germany had protested since 2017 against any sanctions on the pipeline, warning of consequences because it really wanted that gas. I’ll bet you even recall the stories about the Germans “smirking” at the UN as Trump warned them in a speech there that they were becoming dependent on Russian gas. Right?
The “Smart people” in the world ridiculed Trump’s claims, “smirked” at him and the media here along with Trump detractors, loved it. They thought it was just politics–missed the real urgency of the issue.
But Trump did sanction the Nordstream pipeline as you admit, late or not, he did. Despite Germany’s objections. So he did take action, and despite Germany’s objections and the howls of the Literati politicians who claimed Trump was being “rude” to our allies.
Who waived those sanctions? Biden. Not Trump. Biden.
And Trump did send real weapons to Ukraine which you don’t deny, and which Obama never did.
Trump saw Putin as a danger when others blinded by partisan outlook, could see Trump as a buffoon: and could only tout Merkel as a genius. But Trump was right: Putin was a danger. Merkel was wrong. The Literati chattering classes here were wrong.
So let’s not worry overly much about the man who was right; who took action when others only thought he was being rude to our allies.
Harcourt Fenton Mudd (c0c5dd) — 1/23/2025 @ 7:16 amI am going to do a Rip Murdock here, as I think the points made by (trigger alert) Matthew Yglesias are relevant here:
My own thought is that it is impossible to predict Trump and it is easy to over-emphasize the buffoonery. Best assume that the man know what he wants to accomplish and that you don’t. Just remember that he is a criminal, a racist, wants revenge and does not want to be opposed.
The ironic thing is that while Trump is an enigma, he is also very easy to trigger and he can be flattered. As a super-villain, he is endlessly fascinating, and would be a worthy opponent to Batman. As a real person — well, we are living in the “interesting times” of that old Chinese curse.
Appalled (6579a1) — 1/23/2025 @ 8:02 amHi Dana —
I would love to know what just put my comment in moderation…
Appalled (6579a1) — 1/23/2025 @ 8:03 amThe problem is that Trump sent weapons with strings attached, specifically that they be kept in western Ukraine, hundreds of miles from the front, where they would do exactly no good while they were at war in Donbas during Trump’s entire single term.
Bottom line, it was a political gesture that gave MAGAs a talking point and didn’t actually help Ukraine defend itself from Putin’s aggression.
We agree that Biden was a fool wrt Merkel, and Merkel is her own kind of fool, increasing German dependence on fossil fuels and Russian oil.
Paul Montagu (3bccc6) — 1/23/2025 @ 8:07 amMerkel’s predecessor, Gerhard Schroder, was just as bad or worse, advocating for Nord Stream I, managing Nord Stream II, and sitting on the board of Kremlin-owned Rosneft, Putin’s biggest oil producer. He was going to join the board of Gazprom, but withdrew after Putin’s Big Escalation.
I am going to do a Rip Murdock here, as I think the points made by (trigger alert) Matthew Yglesias are relevant here:
https://www.slowboring.com/p/nobody-knows-what-trump-is-going
My own thought is that it is impossible to predict Trump and it is easy to over-emphasize the buffoonery. Best assume that the man know what he wants to accomplish and that you don’t. Just remember that he is a criminal, a racist, wants revenge and does not want to be opposed.
The ironic thing is that while Trump is an enigma, he is also very easy to trigger and he can be flattered. As a super-villain, he is endlessly fascinating, and would be a worthy opponent to Batman. As a real person — well, we are living in the “interesting times” of that old Chinese curse.
(I think I saw the word that put this in moderation. Hoping this works this time)
Appalled (6579a1) — 1/23/2025 @ 8:09 amAnd the other shoe drops. Trump just canceled Pompeo’s Secret Service protection, so he’s not a hypocrite, just contemptible, cruel and selfish, because Trump is the only who stays protected by dint of his office.
Paul Montagu (3bccc6) — 1/23/2025 @ 9:36 amExactly. While the Obama Administration (sadly) didn’t provide lethal aid, it did provide more than $100M in security assistance to Ukraine, prior to President Zylensky’s election:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/23/2025 @ 9:49 amZelensky’s bottom line is NATO accession. Given that, other things are possible. Without that, any agreement with Putin is just as worthless as all their other agreements with Russia.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/23/2025 @ 9:51 am–O’Brien to Winston Smith
Trump has always been at war with Putin.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/23/2025 @ 10:00 amIf that is true, then Putin will never stop fighting. The raison d’être of Putin’s invasion was to stop the expansion of NATO to Russia’s borders.
Even if Putin retains the conquered portions of Ukraine in any peace agreement, a NATO member Ukraine will still be on Russia’s borders.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/23/2025 @ 10:15 amIf that is true, then Putin will never stop fighting.
Putin cannot win militarily without using nukes.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/23/2025 @ 10:35 amHow so? Putin can win just by grinding down the Ukrainian Army; and there is no evidence that the UA is making any real progress against the Russian offensive campaign. The only reason to use nuclear weapons would be if the West intervened with ground and air forces, and politically across European and the US there is no support for that.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/23/2025 @ 10:54 am29: Paul M: I always am impressed with your comments, which are very reasoned. But as to the Javelins, it turns out they were incredibly useful, despite the airy wave off opinion of some bureaucrat at Rand. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/us-made-javelin-missiles-are-vital-ukraines-fight-russia-experts-say-rcna20878
Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e) — 1/23/2025 @ 11:41 amPutin can win just by grinding down the Ukrainian Army
He’s grinding down the Russian Army just as fast. By the time he defeats Ukraine, he’ll have no army left. All he is proving is that Russia’s armed forces would be a pushover for NATO. Or China.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/23/2025 @ 11:49 amAppreciated, Harc. When the Javelins are at the front, they’re very useful at knocking out tanks as such.
I’d say that Putin can’t win with nukes because, if he tries a tactical or strategic atomic bomb, he’d kill thousands–maybe hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian civilians–a mass war crime that would make himself a worldwide pariah, thus losing his top benefactor, China.
His only course is to grind, IMO, which can be repulsed with sufficient military aid, keeping him in quagmire long enough bankrupt his sheethole country. As I see it, it’s a race between which holds out the longest, the military aid or Putin’s economy. As long as Ukraine has the will, I support sending the aid and making Putin pay. The prime question is whether Trump can see it that way, and I’m not optimistic.
Paul Montagu (3bccc6) — 1/23/2025 @ 11:58 amPutin needs to worry more about Xi. That “Northern Resource Zone” could be mighty tempting if Russian has no army left.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/23/2025 @ 12:24 pm40: Agree 100%: bleed him as long as Ukraine can hold out. But I think Trump sees the war as something that can only get worse – -nukes, germ warefare, a Ukrainian collapse, an erosion of US patience- and wants to end it. Hopefully on good terms.
Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e) — 1/23/2025 @ 12:25 pmTrump is the only [one] who stays protected by dint of his office.
If Trump is succeeded by someone other than Vance, he might come to regret this.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/23/2025 @ 12:26 pmHopefully on good terms.
“Hope” isn’t a strategy. And it matters. The war has to end with Putin losing, pour encourager les autres.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/23/2025 @ 12:27 pmMy bet is on the Russian economy, as I expect by this time next year the US will stop providing military aid to Ukraine, as part of a deal with Trump.
Rip Murdock (c222c5) — 1/23/2025 @ 12:54 pmRussia has a much larger population that can be deployed against Ukraine, which has a manpower shortage. And Russia’s capacity to produce weapons has grown despite sanctions, while Ukraine’s capacity to do so is minuscule.
Rip Murdock (c222c5) — 1/23/2025 @ 1:03 pmCorrection to post 45:
Rip Murdock (c222c5) — 1/23/2025 @ 1:06 pmRussia has a much larger population that can be deployed against Ukraine, which has a manpower shortage.
Russia is fighting a war of oppression, and has largely exhausted the supply of young men from the sticks. Now they have to try drafting kids from Moscow and other big cities, with parents who can be heard. With the economy failing, Putin is eventually going to run out of room.
Ukraine is fighting an existential war of desperation. That has deeper reserves.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/23/2025 @ 1:11 pmPutin is stuck with the manpower he has, which includes getting North Korean cannon fodder and trawling prisons and nightclubs.
He can’t do a full mobilization and force a conscription without changing his Special Military Operation to a declaration of war, and there’s a reason Putin hasn’t done that because of the political blowback. He’s stuck with financial incentives for soldiers in a country where the ruble isn’t worth a penny and his inflation rate is pushing 20%.
Paul Montagu (3bccc6) — 1/23/2025 @ 1:13 pmThen I guess he will need to use nuclear weapons. An interesting question is what NATO would do in retaliation. If nuclear weapons were used during the Biden administration, I have no doubt NATO would respond in some way. I’m not so sure what NATO would do under the Trump administration, if anything. Without the backing of the US, I doubt any group of European countries would do retaliate on their own.
Rip Murdock (c222c5) — 1/23/2025 @ 1:17 pmApparently not everyone feels that way, as Ukraine has a draft dodger problem.
Rip Murdock (c222c5) — 1/23/2025 @ 1:22 pmEven if true, Russia’s industrial capacity is overwhelming Ukraine. I don’t see the Trump administration continuing aid at the same levels as the Biden administration.
Rip Murdock (dda1b5) — 1/23/2025 @ 1:33 pmIndustrial capacity with what money? With what imports?
Paul Montagu (3bccc6) — 1/23/2025 @ 1:35 pmRussia isn’t producing enough military equipment to replace losses.
steveg (cdf9e5) — 1/23/2025 @ 1:59 pmThey are short of trucks and are using civilian vehicles. They are dredging reserves for armored vehicles, field artillery from the 1950’s.
What Russia is doing is throwing men into meat assaults- it’s not military equipment, it’s the large unemployed or underemployed male population.
It is said that Trump likes to “weaponize uncertainty,” which I say is true. He likes to make sweeping statements that are interpreted according to the predispositions of the ear owner.
steveg (cdf9e5) — 1/23/2025 @ 2:08 pmMaybe, maybe not:
And
And
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/23/2025 @ 2:51 pmHere is the Royal United Services Institute report on Russian military production.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/23/2025 @ 2:52 pmFrom the RUSI report:
An assessment of Russian production demonstrates that, despite all the above measures, efforts to curtail the Russian defence industry have thus far in aggregate failed.
Footnotes omitted.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/23/2025 @ 3:00 pm44: “Hope isn’t a strategy,” yet you want to “bet the country” on Ukraine’s deep “existential” strength.
As Rip M notes, Ukraine has a daft dodger problem, and Russia has more manpower. Lots of people fled Ukraine rather than fight.
And you say Putin has to lose: a noble aim, but men fighting and dying may not want to hold out for that, and may not be able to do so.
Just saying: that a deal may be best for all involved.
Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e) — 1/23/2025 @ 3:22 pmJust saying: that a deal may be best for all involved.
Unless Ukraine accedes to NATO, there is no deal because Russia has torn up the last few deals. Putin speaks with forked tongue.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/23/2025 @ 3:49 pm> Putin speaks with forked tongue
So does America,now.
aphrael (dbf41f) — 1/23/2025 @ 3:53 pmAlso, Russia may have more men, but they are having massive problems with conscription, and have several times tightened the laws there. Further, they are not sending conscripts into Ukraine but instead using larger and larger inducements for their cannon fodder.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/23/2025 @ 3:55 pmhttps://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-doubles-signing-bonuses-volunteers-fight-ukraine-2024-07-31/
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/23/2025 @ 3:57 pmSo does America,now
How so? Have we (lately) signed a treaty then reneged?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/23/2025 @ 4:12 pmRUSI is right about this, too, Rip.
Paul Montagu (3bccc6) — 1/23/2025 @ 5:17 pm> How so? Have we (lately) signed a treaty then reneged?
We’re imposing tariffs on ourneighbors in violation of NAFTA, and we’re threatening to violate both the Canal Treaty and NATO.
aphrael (dbf41f) — 1/23/2025 @ 5:18 pmOur disagreement lies in the fact that two very different things can be true simultaneously.
Russia is not replacing the losses of newer model equipment with next-generation weapons.
steveg (cdf9e5) — 1/23/2025 @ 5:48 pmThey are instead digging (deep) into reserve. If you take a minute and look around x, you will see drone videos of the destruction of WWII era 57mm cannons on the front lines.
T-90M tanks are not being replaced with new ones; they are being replaced with refurbished T-55 and T-62 tanks. Given the nature of the conflict, I think this is a wise use of resources, but this war is not a triumph of Russian industry.
Russia’s newest stand off weapons are still not very accurate, their equipment used in the mano a mano battlefield (APC, IFV, ARV, Tanks, field artillery) is increasingly older. The logistics has gone from Kamaz truck down to Loaf vans.
Russia is winning ground by spending the lives of its undereducated, unemployed, rural minorities.
Whatever the source of weapons, Russia will outgun and outlast Ukraine in the end.
Rip Murdock (c222c5) — 1/23/2025 @ 6:06 pmYou won’t get any argument from me on that point.
Rip Murdock (c222c5) — 1/23/2025 @ 6:08 pmThat would require direct intervention with ground troops and air support by NATO, an unlikely prospect from the start.
Rip Murdock (c222c5) — 1/23/2025 @ 6:11 pmThere at least two NATO members, possibly three, would oppose Ukraine in NATO: Turkey, Hungary, and possibly the United States.
Rip Murdock (dda1b5) — 1/23/2025 @ 6:15 pmAdd Slovakia to that list, Rip. The US would add Ukraine to NATO, as long as Trump-Vance aren’t in the picture. I think Erdogan might be amenable but certainly not a jerkoff like Orban.
Paul Montagu (3bccc6) — 1/23/2025 @ 6:37 pmThis is where Trump is a f-cking liar and idjit.
Zelenskyy had no power to prevent Putin from his unprovoked, unjustified unlawful invasion. Zelenskyy has every right to defend his country from Putin, who had no right to invade, in 2014 and 2022.
That Trump still doesn’t get this, that he’s still a Putin suck-up, is why things could go very badly for us.
Paul Montagu (3bccc6) — 1/23/2025 @ 6:47 pmTurkey, Hungary, and possibly the United States.
There is no deal if the US (e.g. Trump) opposes. If either of the other two crosses Trump, well, good luck.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/23/2025 @ 7:09 pm“He shouldn’t have allowed this to happen either”
It’s really hard to defend that. Anyone want to try?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/23/2025 @ 7:11 pmBut after the fact, you can explain it. Provided that you were right about what the possibilities were.
I think Trump is really sincere about ending the fighting (just out of ego – he’d love to do what everybody said was impossible) and he knows it won’t end unless Russia (Putin) gives up.
How he gets from here to there, he doesn’t know, but first he wants to try economic measures – he’s going to try to bankrupt the Russian government, or rather threaten it with bankruptcy if Putin continues the war. Remember, this is supposedly what caused the Soviet Union to give up the Cold War.
In the 18th century, and also even in the time of Napoleon, nations stopped wars when they ran out of money. They didn’t want inflation.
Even Stalin believed in the 1920s that he had to end the ars for financial reasons.
Trump’s going to go a bit slow, just to get European sign in. Marco RUbio will help devise the strategy.
Sammy Finkelman (93572e) — 1/24/2025 @ 9:53 amTrump also believes that, somehow, some way, if he just thinks hard enough or tasks other people to do it, he can knock some sense into Putin.
Sammy Finkelman (93572e) — 1/24/2025 @ 9:57 am