Patterico's Pontifications

1/3/2025

Weekend Open Thread

Filed under: General — Dana @ 6:14 am

[guest post by Dana]

Let’s go!

First news item

Congratulations to Liz Cheney (and Rep. Bennie G. Thompson, who chaired the House Jan. 6 Committee and is also being honored):

President Joe Biden plans on Thursday to announce 20 recipients of the Presidential Citizens Medal.

According to the White House press release, this award is given out to Americans who “have performed exemplary deeds of service for their country or their fellow citizens.”

“The country is better because of their dedication and sacrifice,” the press release added.

One of the most notable recipients is former Wyoming Rep. Liz Cheney for her actions as the vice chair of the committee that investigated the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol. The press release said that she used her voice and reached across the aisle to defend American ideals of freedom, dignity and decency. The move comes as Cheney has faced attacks from President-elect Trump, a member of her own party, for her role in the Jan. 6 committee.

FYI:

When her name was called, the public address announcer said she was being honored “for putting the American people over party.” Cheney received a standing ovation from those in the East Room as she stood with Biden.

Trump not taking it well:

Biden gave Liz Cheney a Medal yesterday, even though she has proven to be totally corrupt. She, “Bennie” Thompson, and the rest of the Unselect Committee, destroyed and deleted all evidence from their crooked investigation of January 6th. Cheney has the distinction of losing her Congressional seat by the largest margin in History! The people of Wyoming understood how bad for our Country she was, but Biden rewarded her only because she hated “TRUMP.” She’s a Warmonger of low intelligence. All she wants to do is kill people in “Endless Wars,” with no gain other than to defense companies. Liz Cheney, Cryin’ Adam Kinzinger, Bennie Thompson, and the rest of these dishonest Thugs have gotten away with horrible things under the pretense of January 6th. Nancy Pelosi refused to accept the help which was offered for security. She is responsible, and admitted as much, for all to see, on her daughter’s tape. They have destroyed the lives of many people, and are rewarded by getting Biden Fake Medals. This is not America. January 20th cannot come fast enough. MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!

However, Liz Cheney was happy to correct him and set the record straight:

Donald, this is not the Soviet Union. You can’t change the truth and you cannot silence us. Remember all your lies about the voting machines, the election workers, your countless allegations of fraud that never happened? Many of your lawyers have been sanctioned, disciplined or disbarred, the courts ruled against you, and dozens of your own White House, administration, and campaign aides testified against you. Remember how you sent a mob to our Capitol and then watched the violence on television and refused for hours to instruct the mob to leave? Remember how your former Vice President prevented you from overturning our Republic? We remember. And now, as you take office again, the American people need to reject your latest malicious falsehoods and stand as the guardrails of our Constitutional Republic — to protect the America we love from you.

Second news item

Uh-oh:

With less than 24 hours left until the start of the 119th Congress, Mike Johnson doesn’t have the votes yet to remain speaker.

The Louisiana Republican has been working diligently over the past few days to lock down the 218 votes he needs, even after spending the holidays working the phones and meeting with incoming President-elect Donald Trump. But even the incoming president’s repeated endorsement earlier this week doesn’t mean Johnson is guaranteed a victory. Roughly a dozen Republicans are still on the fence, as some of them try to get concessions on the rules or commitments from Johnson on spending.

Here’s one Republican who says he will not be voting for Trump:

Rep Massie says he will vote for a sitting member of congress “that could do the job” tomorrow

“You can pull all my fingernails off, you can shove bamboo up them, you can start cutting off my fingers, I am not voting for Mike Johnson tomorrow. And you can take that to the bank”

Trump wishes Mike Johnson success in today’s vote (but doesn’t push those Republicans resistant to Johnson, to vote for him.):

Good luck today for Speaker Mike Johnson, a fine man of great ability, who is very close to having 100% support. A win for Mike today will be a big win for the Republican Party, and yet another acknowledgment of our 129 year most consequential Presidential Election!! – A BIG AFFIRMATION, INDEED. MAGA!

Third news item

Sweden comes up with illegal immigration plan:

The European Union could submit a proposal as soon as March on the creation of so-called ‘return hubs’ to expedite the removal of illegal migrants, Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson said on Thursday.

Kristersson sketched out the potential timetable during a meeting in Vienna with Austrian Chancellor Karl Nehammer, a fellow conservative, in which both men urged the European Union to step up efforts to counter illegal immigration.

Fourth news item

About the horror in New Orleans:

A U.S. Army veteran who rammed a truck into a crowd of revelers on Bourbon Street in New Orleans on New Year’s Day, leaving at least 14 people dead and dozens injured, proclaimed his support for ISIS in the hours before the attack, according to the FBI.

The suspect — identified by the FBI as Shamsud-Din Jabbar, a 42-year-old U.S. citizen from Texas and an Army vet — was killed in a shoot-out with police early on Wednesday.

Investigators initially said they believed Jabbar worked with others to pull off the attack and were searching for other suspects. But on Thursday, the FBI said it now believed that Jabbar acted alone.

“This was an act of terrorism,” FBI Deputy Assistant Director Christopher Raia told reporters, adding Jabbar was “100% inspired by ISIS.”

Fifth news item

Vladimir Putin to the Russian people:

Vladimir Putin assured Russia he was “certain that everything will be fine” in his New Year’s Eve address on Tuesday, as the nation heads toward its fourth year of war in Ukraine in 2025.

In his speech, the Russian president said the nation was overcoming various challenges and would continue to move on. He also referred to 2025 as the “year of the Defender of the Motherland,” and gave respect to Russia’s “fighters and commanders,” The New York Times reported.

Sure thing, Vlad.

Sixth news item

Heh:

On my way to Washington, DC to proudly represent the people of San Francisco and share our San Francisco values in the Congress of the United States. Thank you for giving me that honor! -NP pic.twitter.com/Ay8pGsNgDb

— Nancy Pelosi (@TeamPelosi) January 2, 2025

Have a good weekend.

—Dana

Comments (249)

249 Responses to “Weekend Open Thread”

Hello.
Dana (8dbe7d) — 1/3/2025 @ 6:15 am
First news item
Great way to honor someone who likely colluded with key witness to commit perjury, obstructed congressional investigation and destroyed evidence.

For all the issues surrounding all things Trump-World, and how it shouldn’t be the norms in our politics, it amazes me at the lack of self-awareness of how NeverTrumpers further undermines political norms in their zeal to “Get Trump At All Cost™”.

In short, the “at all cost” is the part they’re refusing to face.
whembly (477db6) — 1/3/2025 @ 6:59 am
Whembly,

So your stance is that Cassidy Hutchison committed perjury?
Appalled (6912ab) — 1/3/2025 @ 8:48 am
Great way to honor someone who likely colluded with key witness to commit perjury, obstructed congressional investigation and destroyed evidence.

Assumes facts not in evidence.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/3/2025 @ 9:18 am
@3 Appalled (6912ab) — 1/3/2025 @ 8:48 am
Yes.

@4

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/3/2025 @ 9:18 am

lol.

Imma respond exactly as you of any criticisms levied against GOP from now on.
whembly (477db6) — 1/3/2025 @ 9:28 am
@4

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/3/2025 @ 9:18 am

lol.

Imma respond exactly as you of any criticisms levied against GOP from now on.

whembly (477db6) — 1/3/2025 @ 9:28 am

How clever.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/3/2025 @ 9:33 am
The Liz Cheney fan club has existed for less than four years. When she vigorously endorsed Trump in 2016 and 2020, her current super fans couldn’t stomach the sight of her. Suddenly, the world’s entire supply of integrity is concentrated in her very being. What utter hypocrisy.

(Speaking for myself, I didn’t know she was ever pro-Trump and I did not care at the time. I and most Trump voters have consistently regarded her with indifference or WMD driven contempt.)
lloyd (75323d) — 1/3/2025 @ 9:34 am
In addition to laughing out loud, I offered arguments and facts backing up my criticisms, unlike your fact-free assertions.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/3/2025 @ 9:34 am
Bennie Thompson was a 2016 election denier. Again, what utter hypocrisy.
lloyd (75323d) — 1/3/2025 @ 9:35 am
@8

In addition to laughing out loud, I offered arguments and facts backing up my criticisms, unlike your fact-free assertions.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/3/2025 @ 9:34 am

Assumes facts not in evidence.
whembly (477db6) — 1/3/2025 @ 9:39 am
Milestones:

Sixty years after Black Americans gained the right to vote in the United States through the Voting Rights Act of 1965, Sen. Tim Scott on Friday makes history, becoming the longest-serving African American in the 235-year history of the United States Senate……..

The previous longest-serving Black senator was the late Republican Sen. Edward Brooke of Massachusetts, who held office from 1967 until 1979. Scott, the first elected Black senator from the South, is the first to serve in both the House of Representatives and the Senate.
………..
In 2024, the Senate will see its highest-ever (number of) Black senators serving concurrently. This group includes Sens. Raphael Warnock, Booker, Scott, Angela Alsobrooks, and Lisa Blunt Rochester. Rochester and Alsobrooks will also break barriers as the first two women to serve together in the Senate concurrently.
………..
As his career extends into the 119th Congress, Scott will make history as the first Black chairman of a Senate standing committee. He will lead the Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs Committee and will also chair the National Republican Senatorial Committee, the only Black Republican to hold such a position.
………..
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/3/2025 @ 9:46 am
Great way to honor someone who likely colluded with key witness to commit perjury, obstructed congressional investigation and destroyed evidence.

If true, I’m sure the Trump Justice Department will (as it should) aggressively prosecute her (and Cassidy Hutchinson), as well as any other members and staff of the January 6th Committee.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/3/2025 @ 9:53 am
Speaker vote update: “If Georgia Democrat Hank Johnson does not show up during the roll call vote for speaker, the majority support needed to win on the first ballot will be 217 votes, one extra vote to spare for the speaker, down from the 218 needed if all 434 were present.”
source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2025/01/03/house-speaker-vote-live-updates/
(Paul Kane, 12 minutes ago)
Jim Miller (8bf5d0) — 1/3/2025 @ 9:53 am
The Loser is more likely honoring Liz for tanking Kamala’s campaign.
lloyd (3fdb10) — 1/3/2025 @ 10:06 am
As far as the accusation that Cheney violated the DC Bar’s ethics rules, and acted “corruptly,” there appears to be no there there (page numbers are to the House Subcommittee on Oversight report):

………
In brief, the incidents in question occurred during the testimony of former Trump White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson before the House January 6 select committee. Hutchinson was represented at the time by attorney Stefan Passantino, a former ethics counsel in the Trump White House. Hutchinson eventually testified (p. 50) that Passantino told her, “We just want to focus on protecting the president. We all know you’re loyal.” She also testified (pp. 36-37) that Passantino coached her on how to rely on the answer “I don’t recall.” She said, “Stefan had said something to the effect of, ‘The committee doesn’t know what you can and can’t recall, so we want to be able to use that as much as we can unless you really, really remember something very clearly.” Hutchinson also testified: “I said, ‘But, if I do recall something but not every little detail, Stefan, can I still say I don’t recall?’ And he had said, ‘Yes.’” (Other details from the congressional transcripts are included in a bar ethics complaint against Passantino; the complaint was later dismissed after Hutchinson declined to cooperate with the inquiries.)
……….
……….The House report quotes excerpts from both Hutchinson’s and Cheney’s memoirs about what transpired. According to Cheney, Hutchinson told her she was inclined to represent herself going forward, but Cheney cautioned her to get independent legal advice. Hutchinson’s version is that she asked Cheney if she could recommend a lawyer, and Cheney provided some names. In any event, Hutchinson fired Passantino and retained counsel recommended by Cheney. Hutchinson’s subsequent testimony was very damaging to Trump. …….

The House report explains what the supposed ethics problem is for Cheney: a violation of the bar’s rule on communicating with a person represented by counsel (D.C. Rule 4.2(a)):
……….
In parallel with this accusation from the House, America First Legal, a Trump-aligned public interest legal organization, filed an ethics complaint in late October against Cheney on behalf of Passantino. ……..Its accusation is the same: she violated Rule 4.2(a).

The problem is, though, that she didn’t, because the rule applies only to lawyers who are representing clients – which Cheney was not.

Both the House report and the America First Legal complaint conspicuously lop off the first seven words of the sentence they quote from Rule 4.2(a), which make it clear why the rule doesn’t apply:

During the course of representing a client, a lawyer shall not communicate or cause another to communicate about the subject of the representation with a person known to be represented by another lawyer in the matter, unless the lawyer has the prior consent of the lawyer representing such other person……. (emphasis in original.)

Cheney was not representing a client.

The House report and the bar complaint similarly fail to mention Comment [7] to the D.C. Rule:

[7] This rule also does not preclude communication with a represented person who is seeking advice from a lawyer who is not otherwise representing a client in the matter (emphasis in original).

Cheney was not “otherwise representing a client in the matter.” Whatever else you may think of her communications with Hutchinson, Cheney had no client.

Only lawyers representing another person in the matter are bound by the anti-contact rule; lawyers “not otherwise representing a client in the matter” are not. This distinction is not a mere technicality – it’s a vital protection of the client’s right to seek a second opinion.
…………
It seems that the only pertinent legal ethics rule might be the prohibition on frivolous complaints (D.C. Rule 3.1) – and it could well apply to America First Legal’s complaint, not to Cheney:

A lawyer shall not bring … a proceeding … unless there is a basis in law and fact for doing so that is not frivolous, which includes a good-faith argument for an extension, modification, or reversal of existing law.

……….
……….(T)he House report recommends that Cheney be investigated by the FBI for witness tampering, in violation of 18 USC §1512. The relevant clauses of §1512 make it a crime to knowingly and corruptly persuade or attempt to persuade someone, with intent to influence their testimony in an official proceeding (§1512(b)(1)), or “corruptly … otherwise obstruct[ ], influence[ ], or impede[ ] any official proceeding, or attempt[ ] to do so.”

The question is what makes Cheney’s contacts with Hutchinson “corrupt.” Here is what the Report says (p. 117):
………..
The paragraph is a bit cryptic, but it appears that the ethics violation – the violation of the anti-contact rule – is what makes Cheney’s contact with Hutchinson “corrupt.”
………..
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/3/2025 @ 10:20 am
@15 Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/3/2025 @ 10:20 am
You posted an analysis from a rabid anti-Trumper (justsecurity.org).

What you claim as posting “facts” is really someone else’s opinion.

Maybe some Trump prosecutor take a book out of Alvin Bragg’s repertoire and stretch out a single act into multiple felonies.
whembly (477db6) — 1/3/2025 @ 10:24 am
Whether Liz violated the law isn’t going to matter. A DC jury isn’t going to convict.

Then again, as we’ve learned the past eight years, the process can be the punishment.
lloyd (3fdb10) — 1/3/2025 @ 10:32 am
Seymour P. Lachman RIP

A New York State Senator, he wrote a book or two about how bad was the system in Albany. I think he quit or maybe he was redistricted out.. I remember when there was later an opportunity he didn’t run. Because maybe he didn’t have a real opportunity. Recently he had Alzheimer’s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_P._Lachman

Two of his books:

1. Three Men in a Room: The Inside Story of Power and Betrayal in an American Statehouse (2006)
with Newsday journalist Robert Polner[10]

This one I knew about. It is a rather thing paperback. The title is based on the saying that everything was decided y 3 men in a room: The Governor, the Speaker of the Assembly and the Majority Leader of the State Senate (who was always a Republican, through the miracle of gerrymandering, until the time came when a takeover and not only that, but a veto proof majority was engineered and we got pro crime legislation.

2. Failed State: Dysfunction and Corruption in an American Statehouse (2017) with Newsday journalist Robert Polner

Here is the Amazon listing:

https://www.amazon.com/Failed-State-Dysfunction-Corruption-Statehouse/dp/1438465734

This one I haven’t heard about or seen.

This was published in 2017 which was before the Democratic takeover. It had been prevented by a coalition government but the Democrats who voted with the Republicans were defeated in primaries. Pressure had been put on Governor Andrew Cuomo not to co-operate with the Republicans
Sammy FInkelman (e4ef09) — 1/3/2025 @ 11:05 am
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/07/nyregion/democrat-ny-senate.html

Nov. 7, 2018
Democrats seized control of the New York State Senate for just the third time in 50 years on Tuesday, a victory that could fundamentally alter the state’s economic and political fabric next year and beyond.

The Senate had been the Republican Party’s last foothold of power in an increasingly blue state. But after a closely watched, expensive battle, Democrats won eight Republican-held seats, giving their party decisive command of Albany’s triumvirate of power and positioning them to unleash a cascade of long-stymied progressive legislation.

Democrats had needed to flip only one seat to erase the Republicans’ razor-thin majority. They blew past that number, unseating five incumbents and winning three open seats.

“Thank you for sending us our biggest majority ever,” Senator Andrea Stewart-Cousins, the leader of the Senate Democrats, told supporters on Long Island….

….The history of their quest for the Senate is an only-in-New-York saga of intrigue, defections and naked power grabs. The Democrats won control in 2009, after 43 years in the minority, then lost it a year later (and saw their former majority leader indicted). In the 2012 election, they technically won a numerical majority again — only for a group of Democrats to break away and join with the Republicans, effectively handing the Republicans control of the chamber.

[Want to know more about the rogue group of Senate Democrats who joined the Republicans? Read our explainer here.]

Democratic unity seems more assured this time, especially after primary voters ousted the majority of those renegade senators in September in what was widely seen as proof of the energy in the party’s progressive wing.

Those primary victories may have an outsize effect on the temperature of the new Senate majority. Several of the freshman senators are first-time politicians who ran on unapologetically progressive bona fides; some support proposals, such as legalizing recreational marijuana, that are still a source of debate, even among Democrats. One incoming senator, Julia Salazar, will be the first democratic socialist to serve in the State Legislature…

Nobody t=gt up the energy to scare the voters where there was something bad really at stake. The defecting Democrats never explained or maybe never understood because maybe they were doing it mainly for career reasons and lulus.

Here’s the NYT explainer:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/11/nyregion/independent-democratic-conference.html

How 3 Little Letters (I.D.C.) Are Riling Up New York Progressives

This election year, some of the most vilified figures among liberals in the state aren’t Republicans. They’re a group of Democrats formerly known as the Independent Democratic Conference.

f you have paid even a little attention to New York politics recently, there is a good chance you have heard the letters “I.D.C.” If you have paid a little more attention, you may have heard the group blamed for a host of issues: New York’s failure to codify Roe v. Wade into law; its flimsy protections for child sex-abuse victims; its lack of more stringent gun control laws.

The “progressives” didn’t talk about what they wanted to do about criminal justice.
Sammy FInkelman (e4ef09) — 1/3/2025 @ 11:11 am
>stretch out a single act into multiple felonies.

We *regularly* stretch out single acts into multiple felonies. It was a big part of the 80s/90s anti-crime reaction. It’s a standard part of criminal justice now.

Maybe it shouldn’t be, but if that’s the case lets change it *across the board* rather than enacting special protections and exacting revenge because the law was applied to someone popular.
aphrael (dbf41f) — 1/3/2025 @ 11:18 am
What you claim as posting “facts” is really someone else’s opinion.

Maybe some Trump prosecutor take a book out of Alvin Bragg’s repertoire and stretch out a single act into multiple felonies.

whembly (477db6) — 1/3/2025 @ 10:24 am

What are the “facts” that support your position?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/3/2025 @ 11:27 am
What you claim as posting “facts” is really someone else’s opinion.

Despite the fact that his “opinion” is supported by the quoted regulations and laws……..
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/3/2025 @ 11:29 am
Republicans heading down the rabbit hole again:

Mike Johnson was set to lose his speaker re-election bid on the first ballot after several Republicans voted for other candidates.
………
Three House Republicans—Reps. Thomas Massie of Kentucky, Ralph Norman of South Carolina and Keith Self of Texas —voted for other candidates for speaker, denying Johnson a majority.
………
Rep. Tim Burchett (R., Tenn.) predicted just as voting was about to get under way: “This will go to multiple rounds.”

Republicans’ 219-215 margin means Johnson can afford no more than one GOP defection.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/3/2025 @ 11:33 am
Nan and her San Fran values got voted out last election.
Time for her to hang ’em up, all the way.
Paul Montagu (7329e4) — 1/3/2025 @ 11:35 am
Th question is what happens after multiple rounds.

No other Republican can be elected Speaker besides Mike Johnson it seems.

(Well, if the opponents just want to collect a scalp, or believe in 1 Congress term limits for Speaker, they could substitute someone else like Mike Johnson).
Sammy FInkelman (e4ef09) — 1/3/2025 @ 11:37 am
More bad news for Putin: “Russia on brink of vodka meltdown after prices for a bottle soar by over 20%.”
This is as good a reason for a revolution as anything.
Paul Montagu (7329e4) — 1/3/2025 @ 11:37 am
Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) had a phone call with Susie Wiles, Donald Trump’s incoming chief of staff, on the House floor shortly after initial voting in the first speakership ballot concluded without Mike Johnson getting a majority, according to a photo reviewed by POLITICO taken by photojournalist Al Drago.

She then sat and began speaking to Rep. Thomas Massie (R-Ky.), who is leading the opposition against Johnson, shortly after the call ended.

Olivia Beavers
Olivia Beavers

01/03/2025, 2:19pm ET

1 hour ago
The Senate unanimously agreed Friday to allow President Jimmy Carter, who died last month, to lie in state in the Capitol rotunda.

The use of the rotunda, however, “often involves a concurrent resolution,” according the the Congressional Research Service, meaning the House would also be expected to agree. But the House cannot act on any legislation or resolutions until it elects a speaker. Speaker votes are currently underway as Mike Johnson seeks to hold on to the gavel.

Ursula Perano
Ursula Perano

01/03/2025, 1:34pm ET
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 1/3/2025 @ 11:41 am
It is a fact that the words During the course of representing a client were left out the accusation. The accusation didn’t make sense anyway.

Sometimes very biased and somewhat dishonest sources can be correct about some points.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 1/3/2025 @ 11:43 am
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/3/2025 @ 11:33 am

If only the Republicans could stick together like the Democrats……
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/3/2025 @ 11:48 am
Gaza deal seems not to be on track, but maybe nobody knows anything till it will get really close to January 20. Meanwhile Hamas is continuing to fight, and recruiting cannon fodder, and trying to create accusations against Israel.

Hams wants Israel to agree to end the war and withdraw from Gaza (leaving them in charge) It has not provided a list of Israeli prisoners who are still alive.

Israel is against Hamas police (just killed the chief of police) and UNWRA (will stop cooperating with it).
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 1/3/2025 @ 11:49 am
MAGA Mike may have won the Speakership, but he’ll always come up short.
Massie was the lone holdout, and they could only afford a single holdout.
Paul Montagu (7329e4) — 1/3/2025 @ 12:00 pm
“for putting the American people over party.”

Something Democrats want Republicans to do, but never do themselves.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/3/2025 @ 1:09 pm
I’m not saying she did not do that, but the hypocrisy of the Democrats is really hard to ignore (although some find it fairly easy). If 99 Democrats are lauding Cheney for her integrity, the integrity quotient in the room is, at most, 1%.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/3/2025 @ 1:12 pm
We *regularly* stretch out single acts into multiple felonies. It was a big part of the 80s/90s anti-crime reaction. It’s a standard part of criminal justice now.

So, if a bank robber asks for all of a teller’s $20s, they can be charged for bank robbery for each $20 bill taken?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/3/2025 @ 1:15 pm
If only the Republicans could stick together like the Democrats……

If the Democrats had a 3-vote majority, it would at least as bloody.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/3/2025 @ 1:18 pm
@21

What are the “facts” that support your position?

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/3/2025 @ 11:27 am

I’m not asserting “facts” like you do.

There are, however, serious allegations that warrants actually investigation and possible prosecution:
https://cha.house.gov/2024/10/new-texts-reveal-liz-cheney-communicated-with-cassidy-hutchinson-about-her-select-committee-testimony-without-hutchinson-s-attorney-s-knowledge-despite-cheney-knowing-it-was-unethical

https://cha.house.gov/2024/10/expert-analysis-reveals-hutchinson-not-the-author-of-january-6-tweet#:~:text=WASHINGTON%20%2D%20The%20Committee%20on%20House,that%20was%20given%20to%20President

…to list a few already.
whembly (477db6) — 1/3/2025 @ 1:45 pm
@20

>stretch out a single act into multiple felonies.

We *regularly* stretch out single acts into multiple felonies. It was a big part of the 80s/90s anti-crime reaction. It’s a standard part of criminal justice now.

Maybe it shouldn’t be, but if that’s the case lets change it *across the board* rather than enacting special protections and exacting revenge because the law was applied to someone popular.

aphrael (dbf41f) — 1/3/2025 @ 11:18 am

I said that ‘tongue in cheek’…

I agree with you, this practice needs to be forbidden across the board.
whembly (477db6) — 1/3/2025 @ 1:47 pm
> If the Democrats had a 3-vote majority, it would at least as bloody.

I’m unconvinced.

In 2021, the Dems had a nine vote majority. In 2023 the Republicans had an eight vote majority. We got *wildly* different outcomes.

At the national level the Dems don’t have any dissident factions comparable to the Freedom Caucus. The Blue Dogs all got ran out of the party and the Progressives will stay in line over stuff like this.
aphrael (dbf41f) — 1/3/2025 @ 1:48 pm
@33

I’m not saying she did not do that, but the hypocrisy of the Democrats is really hard to ignore (although some find it fairly easy). If 99 Democrats are lauding Cheney for her integrity, the integrity quotient in the room is, at most, 1%.

Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/3/2025 @ 1:12 pm

Democrats don’t care about hypocrisy. Only what’s politically expedient.
whembly (477db6) — 1/3/2025 @ 1:50 pm
>I agree with you, this practice needs to be forbidden across the board.

I come from a subsector of the left which has been objecting to this sort of thing *for decades*.

While i’m glad to hear you agreeing that this practice needs to be forbidden across the board, the sudden discovery and validation of left-wing critiques of the criminal justice system by conservatives, motivated by the fact that the system was turned on Trump, has always seemed … suspicious, to me. Absent explicit declarations like the one you just stated, it feels an awful lot like the issue isn’t the legal technology, it’s the use against Trump.
aphrael (dbf41f) — 1/3/2025 @ 1:52 pm
What are the “facts” that support your position?

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/3/2025 @ 11:27 am

I’m not asserting “facts” like you do.

That’s obvious, since there are none to assert.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/3/2025 @ 2:01 pm
MAGA Mike may have won the Speakership, but he’ll always come up short.
Massie was the lone holdout, and they could only afford a single holdout.

Paul Montagu (7329e4) — 1/3/2025 @ 12:00 pm

The new House rules on “vacating the chair” require nine Republicans to move do so; but there are far more than eight (around 30) that will never vote for a debt ceiling increase (or suspension). Johnson will need Democrat votes to do so; and they will either drive a hard bargain for their votes or vote against an increase large enough to accommodate the extension of the Trump tax cuts.

Prediction: If Johnson makes a deal with Democrats to increase the debt ceiling (or pass any controversial legislation, he will be ousted as Speaker. Six months tops.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/3/2025 @ 2:11 pm
@40

>I agree with you, this practice needs to be forbidden across the board.

I come from a subsector of the left which has been objecting to this sort of thing *for decades*.

While i’m glad to hear you agreeing that this practice needs to be forbidden across the board, the sudden discovery and validation of left-wing critiques of the criminal justice system by conservatives, motivated by the fact that the system was turned on Trump, has always seemed … suspicious, to me. Absent explicit declarations like the one you just stated, it feels an awful lot like the issue isn’t the legal technology, it’s the use against Trump.

aphrael (dbf41f) — 1/3/2025 @ 1:52 pm

I do agree with *some* of the complaints that the left has voiced for years.

1) the practice of stacking multiple charges based on a single transactions has always been abhorrent to me.

2) another thing is the whole for-profit prison systems. I don’t believe the public should offload the incarceration of convicts to private-for-profit prison systems, as there are numerous unseeming perverse incentives.

3) I’m not a fan of the death penalty. I get it the emotions surrounding it… but the justice system is imperfect as it is and it’s too risky imo to levy the death penalty.

So, no, *this* conservative has always been wary of our government and the justice system.
whembly (477db6) — 1/3/2025 @ 2:11 pm
Let’s say that the office manager for a charity has been taking a donation check here and there and applying it to her own account. After doing this 100 times, she gets caught by someone who is anal about check clearing.

How many counts does she face?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/3/2025 @ 2:50 pm
Mr. Livelsberger was right that it wasn’t a terrorist attack, but that’s as far it goes, IMO.
Rather, it was a stupid stunt, a selfish attention-seeking attempt to go out in a blaze of glory, putting other human lives at risk.
Paul Montagu (7329e4) — 1/3/2025 @ 3:48 pm
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/3/2025 @ 2:11 pm

I wasn’t talking about his removal, but about his ability to get legislation passed with only a vote to spare, soon to be three votes once all the seats are filled.
Regarding the debt ceiling, maybe he will get challenged if he raises it or gets rid of it, but his dissenters would be short-sighted if they tried to vote him out. They don’t need more circuses.
Paul Montagu (7329e4) — 1/3/2025 @ 3:55 pm
Epic lawfare fail.

Judge in Trump’s hush money case expected to sentence him to ‘unconditional discharge’

The judge in Donald Trump’s New York criminal hush money case indicated Friday that he intends to sentence the president-elect to an “unconditional discharge” out of respect for the presidential immunity doctrine.

Trump faces the possibility of up to four years in prison for his conviction for his conviction, though the sentence of an unconditional discharge means he would avoid prison, fines or probation.

“Stop Republicans” supporter Merchan would not have hesitated to put Trump in jail. The voters just got in the way.
lloyd (41b847) — 1/3/2025 @ 4:45 pm
I wasn’t talking about his removal, but about his ability to get legislation passed with only a vote to spare, soon to be three votes once all the seats are filled.
Regarding the debt ceiling, maybe he will get challenged if he raises it or gets rid of it, but his dissenters would be short-sighted if they tried to vote him out. They don’t need more circuses.

Paul Montagu (7329e4) — 1/3/2025 @ 3:55 pm

Johnson would need the support of Democrats to move any significant legislation, and they are in no mood to cooperate. Cooperating with Democrats would be the death knell of his Speakership.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/3/2025 @ 4:52 pm
@Rip@42/48 Johnson has a choice with each of these bills. I realize it’s a bit hard-headed of me, but if my caucus trying to hold me hostage after failing spectacularly and repeatedly to find someone who could take the speaker’s seat and be more more willing to live under their thumb, I think I’d do what I wanted to do and throw up a middle finger. Maybe they get rid of him, maybe they don’t, but I don’t think it would be worth it to have to kiss it all the time when there’s a pretty good chance that pushing my own agenda would only end up with egg on their face.
Nic (120c94) — 1/3/2025 @ 5:20 pm
The judge in Donald Trump’s New York criminal hush money case indicated Friday that he intends to sentence the president-elect to an “unconditional discharge” out of respect for the presidential immunity doctrine.

Trump should win on appeal anyway, assuming his lawyers are allowed to lawyer.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/3/2025 @ 7:13 pm
Cooperating with Democrats would be the death knell of his Speakership.

Hardly. That’s not how politics works. What he WOULD have to do is also move a bill that the HFC really wants. The idea that you cannot compromise will be the end of the Republic and we will have Empire in our lifetimes.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/3/2025 @ 7:15 pm
15 Rip Murdock: Cheney if a lawyer as I u/s she was, was acting on behalf of the Jan 6 committee, seeking to benefit its positions, and secure favorable testimony, and in most cases, people would call it a client.
Harcourt Fenton Mudd (a2788e) — 1/3/2025 @ 8:14 pm
The standard for prosecutions is the “hush money” trial. What is important is not the gravity of the charge, but whether you can get a conviction. Turning a blackmail payment into 33 felonies is a neat stunt, but once the laws have been flattened so, the Devil is unfettered.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/3/2025 @ 9:36 pm
Livelsberger didn’t commit a terrorist attack when he left this world in a selfish blaze of glory, but he was a terrorist in spirit.

Military and vets move on DC starting now. Militias facilitate and augment this activity.

Occupy every major road along fed buildings and the campus of fed buildings by the hundreds of thousands.

Lock the highways around down with semis right after everybody gets in. Hold until the purge is complete.

Try peaceful means first, but be prepared to fight to get the Dems out of the fed government and military by any means necessary. They all must go and a hard reset must occur for our country to avoid collapse.
Paul Montagu (7329e4) — 1/3/2025 @ 9:51 pm
Liz Cheney has company.

Hillary Clinton, George Soros honored with Presidential Medal of Freedom at White House ceremony

These are the circles she runs in. Can’t wait for a congratulatory tweet from Liz and her fans.
lloyd (a4dd39) — 1/4/2025 @ 7:47 am
https://nypost.com/2025/01/04/us-news/biden-to-present-george-soros-hillary-clinton-and-17-others-the-presidential-medal-of-freedom/

Clinton and Soros join Cheney in getting Biden’s “Medal of Corruption” awards.
NJRob (9630d3) — 1/4/2025 @ 8:34 am
Lloyd, you beat me to it.
NJRob (9630d3) — 1/4/2025 @ 8:35 am
@54: You post that like it’s an outlier.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/4/2025 @ 9:01 am
This could be true.

At this point a bunch of staffers are competing to put the stupidest sh-t in front of him to see if he’ll sign it.
Paul Montagu (7329e4) — 1/4/2025 @ 9:12 am
@59 Breaking news circa 2021.
lloyd (0283cf) — 1/4/2025 @ 9:56 am
RFK Jr.’s income:

Robert F. Kennedy Jr., the political scion and prominent vaccine skeptic who is challenging President Biden for the Democratic presidential nomination, reported an income of $7.8 million in the year leading up to his entry into the race, including nearly $1.6 million from his consulting work for a personal injury law firm known for litigation against pharmaceutical companies.

The details came in a financial disclosure form filed Friday with the Federal Election Commission. It shows that Mr. Kennedy earned $5 million at his environmental law firm, Kennedy & Madonna, and a $516,000 salary and bonus as chairman and chief legal counsel of Children’s Health Defense, a nonprofit group he formed that has campaigned against vaccines. (The disclosure says he has been on leave from the organization since April, when he announced his campaign.)

Published June 30, 2023.

I had read that he was getting paid 40K a week by the nonprofit, pretty good pay for a part time job. From what I can tell that is roughly true, but only for few months, recently.
Jim Miller (956bcf) — 1/4/2025 @ 10:19 am
If I was king, all non-profits would have to show the top 5 salaries (and bonuses) on all donation requests.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/4/2025 @ 10:26 am
As for presidential medals, just think of all the outraged DNC donation letters Trump can spawn.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/4/2025 @ 10:39 am
The internet sleuths have uncovered a rich Kennedy.
lloyd (0283cf) — 1/4/2025 @ 11:56 am
> The idea that you cannot compromise will be the end of the Republic and we will have Empire in our lifetimes.

Yep. At this point I think that’s the actual goal of the upper echelons of the party, and of the techbro billionaires supporting it.
aphrael (dbf41f) — 1/4/2025 @ 12:11 pm
Messi snubs the Loser.

It was also reported that nobody attended to accept the award on his behalf, and the announcer even skipped over Messi’s name when reading out the 2025 recipients of the medal.

Do better, Lionel!
lloyd (0283cf) — 1/4/2025 @ 12:27 pm
> If I was king, all non-profits would have to show the top 5 salaries (and bonuses) on all donation requests.

I feel awkward about this, because a lot of people donating money don’t actually know what competitive salaries for CEOS, lawyers, and other highly paid people *are*, so this is going to lead to a lot of unfair reactive judgment and pressure on nonprofits to pay substantially less than market wages (resulting in substantially lower quality leadership).
aphrael (dbf41f) — 1/4/2025 @ 12:35 pm
Biden Awards Presidential Medal Of Freedom To Skeletor.
lloyd (0283cf) — 1/4/2025 @ 12:39 pm
67.5% of politicians accused of pedophilia are republicans only 13.5% are democrats. (DU) fightfight. In related news hilary clinton given the medal of freedom. Lloyd you should see who republicans have given the medal of freedom too. Republicans refuse to lower flag to half staff including long island ny. (DU)
asset (ae8453) — 1/4/2025 @ 1:07 pm
@Rip@42/48 Johnson has a choice with each of these bills. I realize it’s a bit hard-headed of me, but if my caucus trying to hold me hostage after failing spectacularly and repeatedly to find someone who could take the speaker’s seat and be more more willing to live under their thumb, I think I’d do what I wanted to do and throw up a middle finger. Maybe they get rid of him, maybe they don’t, but I don’t think it would be worth it to have to kiss it all the time when there’s a pretty good chance that pushing my own agenda would only end up with egg on their face.

Nic (120c94) — 1/3/2025 @ 5:20 pm

Stockholm Syndrome.
Rip Murdock (ed0f1e) — 1/4/2025 @ 1:08 pm
Many nonprofits give only tiny percentage of their fund raising to stated objective. Propublica.
asset (ae8453) — 1/4/2025 @ 1:14 pm
Cooperating with Democrats would be the death knell of his Speakership.

Hardly. That’s not how politics works. What he WOULD have to do is also move a bill that the HFC really wants. The idea that you cannot compromise will be the end of the Republic and we will have Empire in our lifetimes.

Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/3/2025 @ 7:15 pm

Speaker Johnson may want to compromise, but two things must happen: the Democrats must believe that Johnson can keep his word (which he failed to do when the last CR was negotiated); and Johnson would need the support of a majority of his caucus, which he barely has now.

Any bill the HFC wants would be doomed in the Senate (as long as the filibuster exists.) Several members of the Republican House Conference are adamantly opposed to raising the debt ceiling for any reason.

Relying on Democrats to pass “must-pass” legislation cost Kevin McCarthy his Speakership; and there’s no reason to expect it will be any different with Johnson.
Rip Murdock (ed0f1e) — 1/4/2025 @ 1:23 pm
The idea that you cannot compromise will be the end of the Republic and we will have Empire in our lifetimes.

A bit melodramatic.
Rip Murdock (81dac8) — 1/4/2025 @ 1:31 pm
I don’t think it would be worth it to have to kiss it all the time when there’s a pretty good chance that pushing my own agenda would only end up with egg on their face.

Nic (120c94) — 1/3/2025 @ 5:20 pm

Johnson prior to Trump’s election had no agenda, outside of surviving whatever vote was taking place at any given time. Now he has Trump’s agenda, which is not necessarily the same as major factions of the Republican caucus. For example, increasing, suspending, or abolishing the debt ceiling; he won’t get any Democrat votes for that when 30+ Republicans vote against it.
Rip Murdock (ed0f1e) — 1/4/2025 @ 1:41 pm
@Rip@74 Theoretically speaking, Johnson doesn’t have to entirely align with Trump’s agenda. Presumably he has ideas of what kind of bills he’d prefer to push that again presumably mostly match a main stream/ conservative republican agenda. There would need to be a lot of negotiations with everyone and it would be hard work (which I realize that politicians don’t actually like to do much of) and some bluffing (which I don’t know if Johnson is any good at) but if he was willing to put in the time and effort, he might get more done than one might otherwise think.
Nic (120c94) — 1/4/2025 @ 1:51 pm
Getting rid of the debt ceiling permanently might get Democrat support. Getting rid of it only while Trump is president almost certainly won’t.
Davethulhu (e770b9) — 1/4/2025 @ 3:25 pm
Theoretically speaking, Johnson doesn’t have to entirely align with Trump’s agenda.

He will if he wants to keep being Speaker. It was Trump’s arm twisting that flipped the three Republicans who initially voted against him. All it would take are a few Truth Social posts complaining about what is doing from Trump to undermine his authority as Speaker. Then it’s goodbye Mikey.
Rip Murdock (ed0f1e) — 1/4/2025 @ 3:36 pm
Presumably (Johnson) has ideas of what kind of bills he’d prefer to push that again presumably mostly match a main stream/ conservative republican agenda.

No one cares what ideas Johnson has-his role is to implement the agenda that Trump was elected on. Trump’s arm twisting
guaranteed that he’s now Trump’s boy.
Rip Murdock (81dac8) — 1/4/2025 @ 3:43 pm
Gallup Poll-Expectations for second Trump Administration

Americans have mixed expectations for what President-elect Donald Trump will accomplish in his second term, foreseeing success on seven policy goals while doubting he’ll achieve eight others.

Expectations are highest that Trump will control illegal immigration, which 68% of U.S. adults predict he’ll do (28% predict he won’t). Smaller majorities believe he will reduce unemployment (60%-37%), keep the country safe from terrorism (60-37), improve the economy (50-39), keep the country out of war (55-41), cut people’s taxes (54-44), or reduce the crime rate (51-45).

Conversely, majorities of Americans do not think Trump will heal political divisions in the country (33-56), improve the quality of the environment (35-61), improve the healthcare system (40-56), improve race relations 41-56), improve education (41-54), substantially reduce the federal budget deficit (45-53), improve conditions for minorities and the poor (46-53), or reduce the prices of groceries and other items (47-51).

The public is less clear in its outlook for Trump’s presidency on two issues — improving the way the federal government works (47-49), and increasing respect for the U.S. abroad (50-46). About half believe he will — or he won’t — accomplish either goal.
…………
See the accompanying PDF for the full issue-outlook trends for Trump and all prior presidents, plus detailed tabulations showing results by party ID and other subgroups for Trump’s current ratings.
……………
Rip Murdock (3fd0fb) — 1/4/2025 @ 4:22 pm
https://www.yahoo.com/news/grooming-gangs-scandal-covered-060000347.html

One of the worst ongoing scandals in the history of Western Civilization and nary a peep about it because the rapists aren’t white men.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/4/2025 @ 5:40 pm
@Rip@77/78 Who else are they going to get? It was a mess for the R’s last time. And the time before that.
Nic (120c94) — 1/4/2025 @ 6:47 pm
@Rip@77/78 Who else are they going to get? It was a mess for the R’s last time. And the time before that.

Nic (120c94) — 1/4/2025 @ 6:47 pm

Their conundrum is that House Republicans need someone who can work with Trump and Musk while at same time be acceptable to moderate Republicans; and be able to pass legislation that won’t require Democrat support and won’t be filibustered in the Senate. It may well be unsolvable, and there may be multiple House Speakers over the next two years.

Or it can be solved if a few Republicans defect to Democrats and make Hakeem Jeffries Speaker. It’s their choice.
Rip Murdock (3fd0fb) — 1/4/2025 @ 10:45 pm
A difficult case:

Inside the interrogation room, a suburban Maryland detective asked Nicholas Roske why he’d flown across the country from California and then taken a cab to the home of Supreme Court Justice Brett M. Kavanaugh, where he got out at 1 a.m. with a suitcase holding burglary tools, zip ties and a pistol.

Because his lawyers are arguing that his confession was “improperly obtained”.

(Not even being a lawyer, much less a criminal lawyer, I have no opinion on the question.)
Jim Miller (af3bbc) — 1/5/2025 @ 9:00 am
@Rip@77/78 Who else are they going to get? It was a mess for the R’s last time. And the time before that.

Nic (120c94) — 1/4/2025 @ 6:47 pm

A H-1B visa holder? 😉
Rip Murdock (3fd0fb) — 1/5/2025 @ 9:33 am
Perhaps the site should re renamed “Rip’s Pontifications”
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/5/2025 @ 10:47 am
@Rip@77/78 Who else are they going to get? It was a mess for the R’s last time. And the time before that.

Lara Trump is tanned, rested and ready.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/5/2025 @ 10:48 am
Perhaps the site should re renamed “Rip’s Pontifications”

Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/5/2025 @ 10:47 am

I dare say that you “pontificate” as much as I do, mostly not based on facts or evidence.
Rip Murdock (3fd0fb) — 1/5/2025 @ 12:04 pm
10 policies Republicans could use to pay for new tax cuts

Advisers to President-elect Donald Trump and congressional Republicans have begun floating proposals to boost federal revenue and slash spending so their plans for major tax cuts and new security spending won’t further explode the $36.2 trillion national debt.
………..
Impose new tariffs: $2.7 trillion
…………
…………(M)uch of that would be paid by U.S. consumers, most economists say, rather than foreign countries. That’s because importers usually pass the cost of tariffs along by raising the prices of their goods. In response, domestic producers often raise prices to increase profit margins. And U.S. producers may face retaliatory tariffs from other countries, driving up the cost of domestic production and leading employers to cut costs at home.

Repeal clean energy programs: $700 billion
…………
Cut ‘unauthorized’ programs: $516 billion

Before Congress spends money, it is supposed to “authorize” that spending by passing a separate law that sets policy priorities for the funding. But that practice has mostly gone extinct in recent years, as stand-alone spending laws have come to dominate congressional policymaking.

The shift has resulted in a giant pot of money that has been appropriated but not explicitly authorized. The leaders of Trump’s “Department of Government Efficiency,” or DOGE, have signaled plans to claw back at least some of that funding. But spending for a number of vital programs is not explicitly authorized, according to the Congressional Budget Office, including veterans’ health care, the State and Justice departments, and NASA. Nixing all unauthorized spending would yield $516 billion, according to the CBO.

Cancel student loan forgiveness: $275 billion
…………
Eliminate the Education Department: $200 billion

Trump campaigned on eliminating the U.S. Education Department and diverting much of its resources to state and local education officials. But even without a Cabinet eliminating all of the agency’s spending would be almost impossible: Local jurisdictions around the country rely on billions of dollars annually to support low-income students and low-performing schools.
………….
Cut food stamp benefits: $180 billion
Slashing (the Biden Administration’s) expansion could save $180 billion over the next decade, the CRFB found.

Trump and Republicans would have other options, too. Phasing in cuts to food assistance could save around $110 billion, the CRFB projects. Legislation preventing future benefits increases similar to the one Biden enacted would save another $40 billion.
………..
Impose Medicaid work requirements: $109 billion
…………
Reversing (the Biden Administration’s denial of waivers to allow work requirements) would reduce federal spending by another $30 billion, according to the CRFB. Meanwhile, The Post reported in November that Republicans are considering a national Medicaid work requirement. That could save $109 billion, the CBO reported in 2023, but it also could kick tens of thousands of people off health insurance.

Withhold anti-obesity drugs from (Medicaid/Medicare coverage): $40 billion
…………
End child tax credit for noncitizens: $20 billion
………..
Cut IRS funding: -$65.8 billion

Biden’s Inflation Reduction Act pumped an extra $80 billion into the Internal Revenue Service to increase scrutiny of wealthy taxpayers and major corporations, as well as to improve customer service. Republicans have so far rescinded $20 billion — and they want to cut more.

By reducing collections from tax cheats, those cuts would actually cost more than they save: The CBO projected last year that stripping $20 billion from the IRS would increase the national debt by $65.8 billion.
#########

Estimates are from the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget and the Congressional Budget Office. Most of these ideas will require congressional action.
Rip Murdock (3fd0fb) — 1/5/2025 @ 1:45 pm
10 policies where several of them would increase spending on the back end. (seriously, who do you think pays for the increased health costs in medicare/medicaid for diabetic and obesity health issues or hospital costs for the uninsured and poor, or jail/prison for undereducated poor people plus the unrealized tax revenue for people who could have been productive tax payers, or prices on foreign made products.)
Nic (120c94) — 1/5/2025 @ 3:43 pm
Cancel student loan forgiveness: $275 billion
…………
Eliminate the Education Department: $200 billion

Trump campaigned on eliminating the U.S. Education Department and diverting much of its resources to state and local education officials. But even without a Cabinet eliminating all of the agency’s spending would be almost impossible: Local jurisdictions around the country rely on billions of dollars annually to support low-income students and low-performing schools.
………….

Should be a given.

Any “forgiveness ” should be taken out of the schools that gave them useless degrees in the first place.

Take a loan. Pay it back.

Allow bankruptcy to discharge loans though.
NJRob (05de48) — 1/5/2025 @ 4:20 pm
Eliminate the Education Department: $200 billion

This would save far more than that locally as much of the state-level bureaucracy is there to interface with the feds, make reports, apply for grants and generally push paper between them and DC. The cost of losing government grants is generally far less than the grants themselves because compliance and reporting costs are huge; for smaller districts they can be prohibitive.

Medicaid work requirements

Many Medicaid recipients are poor because they are disabled. One of the reasons that group policies can be affordable is that the really really sick people can’t work. It’s not clear what portion of adult Medicaid recipients are able to work, and not working, or not looking for work.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/5/2025 @ 4:24 pm
Medicaid work requirements

Many Medicaid recipients are poor because they are disabled. One of the reasons that group policies can be affordable is that the really really sick people can’t work. It’s not clear what portion of adult Medicaid recipients are able to work, and not working, or not looking for work.

Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/5/2025 @ 4:24 pm

I would abolish Medicaid entirely (federal government savings: $571B) and let the states decide whether they want to continue to provide coverage to their citizens.
Rip Murdock (3fd0fb) — 1/5/2025 @ 4:33 pm
Rip Murdock (3fd0fb) — 1/5/2025 @ 4:33 pm

The same with food stamps (savings: $115B).
Rip Murdock (3fd0fb) — 1/5/2025 @ 4:39 pm
Withhold anti-obesity drugs from (Medicaid/Medicare coverage): $40 billion

Anti-obesity drugs, as such, are currently withheld from Medicare and Medicaid. Those that are also effective in treating diabetes ARE allowed for people who have diabetes, mainly because they are the best known drug for that condition. Are they talking about denying these drugs to diabetics?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/5/2025 @ 4:42 pm
Well, Rip, that’s probably why you aren’t in charge.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/5/2025 @ 4:43 pm
What is you answer to someone with, oh, terminal liver cancer who has exhausted their savings? Die quicker?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/5/2025 @ 4:44 pm
Well, Rip, that’s probably why you aren’t in charge.

Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/5/2025 @ 4:43 pm

And why the country is trillions of dollars in debt.
Rip Murdock (3fd0fb) — 1/5/2025 @ 4:45 pm
“One of the worst ongoing scandals in the history of Western Civilization and nary a peep about it because the rapists aren’t white men.”

It’s absolutely a scandal but the “didn’t want to seem racist” angle is post-hoc revisionism for the fact that the police were working with the abusers.
Davethulhu (8dce13) — 1/5/2025 @ 4:45 pm
Allow bankruptcy to discharge loans though.

The problem with that is that every single new graduate would declare bankruptcy, having little to lose but their debts. It needs to be conditional, and the schools need to be responsible for part of it, so as to encourage them to be selective in who gets loans and for what subjects.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/5/2025 @ 4:46 pm
Are they talking about denying these drugs to diabetics?

Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/5/2025 @ 4:42 pm

No, they just wouldn’t be covered by Medicare. Patients could pay for them out of pocket.
Rip Murdock (3fd0fb) — 1/5/2025 @ 4:47 pm
And why the country is trillions of dollars in debt.

So, Rip, what do you benefit from? Capital gains tax rates? Let’s double them. How about a national property tax of 3%?

Everyone is ready to tax or cut the other guy, but not so much themselves.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/5/2025 @ 4:50 pm
No, they just wouldn’t be covered by Medicare.

The EFFING reason for Medicare is that there is no way that the elderly can buy insurance, and few save enough money to pay for the costs of old age. So, a forced savings plan of sorts.

Why would you choose Ozempic to cut, and not, say Cisplatin?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/5/2025 @ 4:53 pm
Hilarious. Left wing cartoonist thinks a “free press” means she gets to say what she wants but her employer doesn’t.
lloyd (70e961) — 1/5/2025 @ 4:56 pm
What is you answer to someone with, oh, terminal liver cancer who has exhausted their savings? Die quicker?

Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/5/2025 @ 4:44 pm

As I said, it would be up to state legislatures to decide if they wanted to provide Medicaid-like coverage. A good percentage of the high cost of medical care is spent in the last few years of life trying to extend it as long as possible. If someone wishes to do so, that’s fine, but government shouldn’t be the payer of last resort.
Rip Murdock (3fd0fb) — 1/5/2025 @ 4:57 pm
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/5/2025 @ 4:50 pm

I’m more interested in cutting the budget than raising taxes.
Rip Murdock (3fd0fb) — 1/5/2025 @ 4:59 pm
The EFFING reason for Medicare is that there is no way that the elderly can buy insurance, and few save enough money to pay for the costs of old age. So, a forced savings plan of sorts.

Why would you choose Ozempic to cut, and not, say Cisplatin?

Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/5/2025 @ 4:53 pm

As you know, Medicare doesn’t cover every medical procedure or drug; decisions are made to cover only treatments that are cost effective and have the greatest benefit. It doesn’t even cover the most basic of treatments, such as eye exams or dental procedures.

That’s what you get government-run healthcare.
Rip Murdock (3fd0fb) — 1/5/2025 @ 5:08 pm
What is you answer to someone with, oh, terminal liver cancer who has exhausted their savings? Die quicker?

Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/5/2025 @ 4:44 pm

What happened before Medicaid existed?
Rip Murdock (3fd0fb) — 1/5/2025 @ 5:10 pm
NJRob (05de48) — 1/5/2025 @ 4:20 pm

Agreed!
lloyd (70e961) — 1/5/2025 @ 5:10 pm
@Rip@106 Do you have private health insurance? Because it doesn’t cover eye exams or dental procedures either. You have to have separate vision coverage and separate dental coverage. That’s what you get with privately run healthcare.
Nic (120c94) — 1/5/2025 @ 5:11 pm
What you get with government run heathcare:

Superglue and self-extraction: Britain’s desperate ‘DIY dentistry’ is a painful reality

Woman extracts own teeth due to lack of dentist
lloyd (70e961) — 1/5/2025 @ 5:30 pm
4 Out Of 5 Americans With Diabetes Went Into Debt To Pay For Insulin, New Survey Shows

Insulin costs 7-10 times as much in the US as it does in other first world countries.
Davethulhu (23c6f4) — 1/5/2025 @ 7:02 pm
It doesn’t even cover the most basic of treatments, such as eye exams or dental procedures.

It does cover opthamology and nearly all eye care that isn’t about eyeglasses. For example, it covers cataract surgery, but not the implantation of corrective lenses (although only a fool doesn’t pay extra for the toric lenses if they need them).

It’s odd that you single out optometry and dentistry since almost no MEDICAL insurance covers those either, but they all incorporate drug plans. Most of those cover Ozempic not because it’s good for weight loss, but because it’s the best single drug for diabetes.

Perhaps you think that diabetes should not be covered by Medicare. There isn’t a politician on earth who will carry your bill.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/5/2025 @ 9:40 pm
4 Out Of 5 Americans With Diabetes Went Into Debt To Pay For Insulin, New Survey Shows

The need for insulin is because there weren’t better drugs to treat diabetes earlier. Many people who now develop diabetes (it is a disease of age) will never need insulin as there are several drugs that control the disease.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/5/2025 @ 9:44 pm
There are lots and lots of dentists in Albuquerque. Coincidentally, there is lots and lots of meth.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/5/2025 @ 9:45 pm
What happened before Medicaid existed?

People died (often children) unless they found a different way to get low-cost medicine.

As far as state-level programs, we actually have those now — Medicaid is different in CA and FL. But you run two risks: one is the states seeing how little they can spend, the other is people seeking states that spend more. The result is pernicious.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/5/2025 @ 9:50 pm
I know what happened before medicaid existed. Hospitals could refuse to treat you and told you the county hospital might if you could get their. I went their and their were hundreds of people standing in line seeking emergency care and treatment. I was told ;but didnt it didn’t happen when I was there that people died waiting and women had babies waiting in line. This was an early reason people hated conservatives. At circle k stores children put out coin cans begging for money for their operation. This is before we started to have socialized medicaid. Poor old people died from lack of treatment. I doubt any conservative will try defending children dying to defend their principals or give the old charity dodge. The few charities that weren’t ripoffs had long waiting lines too! A doctor here from India told me he was here because the people of calcutta were so poor their fees wouldn’t buy heim a mercedes benz.
asset (26e15c) — 1/5/2025 @ 11:51 pm
Insulin costs 7-10 times as much in the US as it does in other first world countries.

That’s a (relatively) simple solve.

Any FDA approved medication can only be sold in the US at or below the average global price. Pharmaceuticals can’t “in-source” all their profit margins on the backs of the American people while giving it away around the world.

But it’ll neve happen because Big Pharma has their tentacles in both parties.
SaveFarris (8940bf) — 1/6/2025 @ 6:01 am
Asset, do you think doctors should be made to treat patients without getting paid?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/6/2025 @ 8:27 am
@117 Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/6/2025 @ 8:27 am
Kev… asset believes that healthcare is a fundamental right.

The point he misses… is that in doing so, it’s a demand of someone else’s labor, regardless of the ability to pay.

In short, it’s a welfare, not a right.
whembly (477db6) — 1/6/2025 @ 8:58 am
Davethulhu (23c6f4) — 1/5/2025 @ 7:02 pm

Insulin costs 7-10 times as much in the US as it does in other first world countries.

It costs a lot more than it used to cost.

There was so much political pressure about this that the price has mostly been capped recently.
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 1/6/2025 @ 9:03 am
@Rip@106 Do you have private health insurance? Because it doesn’t cover eye exams or dental procedures either. You have to have separate vision coverage and separate dental coverage. That’s what you get with privately run healthcare.

Nic (120c94) — 1/5/2025 @ 5:11 pm

It doesn’t matter whether my primary coverage covers dental or eye exams, since I can buy separate coverage. So what’s your point?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/6/2025 @ 9:05 am
It doesn’t matter whether my primary coverage covers dental or eye exams, since I can buy separate coverage.

You were attacking Medicare and Medicaid as not covering dental or glasses. When it was pointed out that no medical insurance covers them, you hide the goal posts.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/6/2025 @ 9:11 am
As far as state-level programs, we actually have those now — Medicaid is different in CA and FL. But you run two risks: one is the states seeing how little they can spend, the other is people seeking states that spend more. The result is pernicious.

Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/5/2025 @ 9:50 pm

Whether a state tries to get away with minimal coverage (or no coverage at all) isn’t pernicious, it’s a political decision made at the state level. States under the current Medicaid program offer minimal coverage while others (like California or Florida) offer expansive Medicaid coverage, so it would be nothing new if states funded their own programs without federal funds. If someone wants expansive Medicaid coverage, they can “voting with their feet” and move there.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/6/2025 @ 9:12 am
You were attacking Medicare and Medicaid as not covering dental or glasses. When it was pointed out that no medical insurance covers them, you hide the goal posts.

Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/6/2025 @ 9:11 am

It wasn’t an attack, just an example of how inadequate the programs are.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/6/2025 @ 9:15 am
The cost of insulin 2004-2024. Insulin has fallen from a high of $275 in 2022 to $66 in 2024.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/6/2025 @ 9:19 am
Cutting Medicare is such a third rail that no one could seriously propose it; however; Medicaid should entirely be devolved to the states.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/6/2025 @ 9:23 am
Justin Trudeau resigns
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/6/2025 @ 9:31 am
It wasn’t an attack, just an example of how inadequate the programs are.

I read this 3 times and I don’t know how you wrote this with a straight face.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/6/2025 @ 9:31 am
Medicaid should entirely be devolved to the states.

And every sick person in Mississippi will move to Georgia.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/6/2025 @ 9:32 am
The media is making a big deal about how there are no crowds to protest the electoral count this year. Never mind that the temperature in DC is 25 degrees and snowing. All other federal offices are closed due to weather.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/6/2025 @ 9:38 am
Medicaid should entirely be devolved to the states.

And every sick person in Mississippi will move to Georgia.

Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/6/2025 @ 9:32 am

So what is your point?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/6/2025 @ 9:41 am
And every sick person in Mississippi will move to Georgia.

Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/6/2025 @ 9:32 am

Again, voting with their feet. Georgia could impose waiting periods as part of their eligibility requirements for their Medicaid program.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/6/2025 @ 9:43 am
Waiting periods cannot extend more than 90 days. Truly sick people who get little coverage (or long waits) for their problem will move somewhere they can get care. If it takes 8 months to get cancer treatment in MS, but 2 months in GA, the waiting period is no obstacle.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/6/2025 @ 9:54 am
Biden to ban offshore oil, gas drilling in vast areas ahead of Trump term

………..
The move is considered mostly symbolic, as it will not impact areas where oil and gas development is currently underway, and mainly covers zones where drillers have no important prospects, including in the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans.

The White House said on Monday that Biden will use his authority under the 70-year-old Outer Continental Shelf Lands Act to protect all federal waters off the East and West coasts, the eastern Gulf of Mexico and portions of the northern Bering Sea in Alaska. The ban will affect 625 million acres (253 million hectares) of ocean.
……….
Around 15% of U.S. oil production comes from federal offshore acreage, mainly in the Gulf of Mexico, a share that has been falling sharply in the last decade as drilling onshore booms, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration.
……….
The United States is now the world’s top oil and gas producer thanks to big increases in production from places like Texas and New Mexico, fueled by improved drilling technology and strong demand since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
……….
“It’s ridiculous. I’ll unban it immediately. I will unban it. I have the right to unban it immediately,” Trump said in an interview on the Hugh Hewitt radio program.
……….
But the Lands Act, which allows presidents to withdraw areas from mineral leasing and drilling, does not grant them the legal authority to overturn prior bans, according to a 2019 court ruling – meaning a reversal would likely require an act of Congress. That order came in response to Trump’s effort to reverse Arctic and Atlantic Ocean withdrawals made by former President Barack Obama at the end of his presidency.

Trump also used the Lands Act to ban sales of offshore drilling rights in the eastern Gulf of Mexico off the coast of Florida through 2032. Biden’s decision will protect the same area with no expiration.
……….

Under the Outer Continental Shelf Lands Act (codified as 43 USC 1341(a)), the President has the authority to withdraw from disposition any unleased lands on the Outer Continental Shelf, but the Act does not provide any authority for a President to undo a presidential designation. In League of Conservation Voters v. Trump (2017), the Trump Administration challenged actions by President Obama withdrawing areas in around Alaska from oil drilling.

In its (summary judgement) decision, the court applied basic principles of statutory construction in interpreting the language of Section 12(a)—by looking at the plain language, context, purpose, structure and legislative history of the OCSLA—to conclude that Section 12(a) permits a president only to withdraw lands from disposition but does not authorize a president to revoke a prior withdrawal. The court noted that “the President is not ‘the exclusive judge’ of determining the OCS lands subject to leasing; that power ultimately is vested in Congress under the Property Clause.” The court reasoned that while Congress authorized presidential withdrawals under OCSLA, it did not expressly delegate to the president the authority to revoke a withdrawal. As a result, the court vacated the portions of Executive Order 13795 revoking the previous withdrawals and held that the withdrawals issued in 2015 and 2016 will remain “in full force and effect unless and until revoked by Congress.”

Page references omitted.

By the time the case reached the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, President Biden had withdrawn Trump’s Executive Order and rendered the case moot.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/6/2025 @ 10:32 am
Waiting periods cannot extend more than 90 days. Truly sick people who get little coverage (or long waits) for their problem will move somewhere they can get care. If it takes 8 months to get cancer treatment in MS, but 2 months in GA, the waiting period is no obstacle.

Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/6/2025 @ 9:54 am

Again, what is your point? So what if states have differing waiting periods. As you suggest, if 8 months is too long in MS, patients can go to another state with a shorter waiting period.

I am suggesting that states could set any waiting period they want, as the current Medicaid program, with all its regulations, would be wiped off the books. States would be allowed to design their own programs, or none at all.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/6/2025 @ 10:37 am
It is said that new medicines are only approved in the United States. But many treatments never get anywhere or get some place after decades of delay.

Thirty five to forty years ago Pfizer stopped work on a injectable substitute for insulin.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/25/opinion/ozempic-weight-loss-pfizer-diabetes.html (published in print on page 11 of the Sunday January 5, 2025 Review section)

Pfizer Stopped Us From Getting Ozempic Decades Ago

…Researchers identified the key breakthrough for GLP-1 drugs nearly 40 years ago, it turns out, long before most Americans had even heard the phrase “obesity epidemic.”

This summer, a former dean of Harvard Medical School, Jeffrey Flier, published a long personal reflection that doubled as an alternate history of what may well be the most spectacular and impactful medical breakthrough of the century so far. In 1987, Flier co-founded a biotech start-up that pursued GLP-1 as a potential treatment for diabetes, not long after it had first been identified by researchers who’d also found that the hormone enhanced insulin secretion in the presence of glucose.

The startup obtained worldwide rights to develop GLP-1 as a metabolic therapy from a group of those researchers, based at Massachusetts General Hospital. They even generated clinical results that suggested it might have promise as a weight-loss drug as well — only to have Pfizer, which had agreed to fund the research, withdraw its support, without providing the researchers with an especially satisfying explanation. Instead, Pfizer told Flier and his partners that the company didn’t believe there would be a market for another injectable diabetes treatment after insulin. Well, Flier tells me, “they were wrong.”

….And yet what is perhaps most remarkable about Flier’s drug-development memoir is not what is or was mysterious, but what was known, quite a long time ago, at least by those researchers and their backers at Pfizer. Early studies in people with diabetes had shown not only that GLP-1 infusions could be an effective treatment for the disease, but also that such therapy also kept food in people’s stomachs for longer and reduced hunger — findings and implications that Flier and his team discussed extensively. This made GLP-1s look like a potentially promising treatment for obesity, too.

The fact of these conversations, so long ago they precede Bill Clinton’s famous jogs to McDonald’s, conjures up an almost magical-seeming alternate reality. In fact, they invite you to fantasize about the possibility that Pfizer might have rushed GLP-1 drugs to market decades ago and that in addition to improving the health and well-being of tens of millions of Americans, the new class of drugs might have become available by now as ubiquitous cheap generics. All of our present-day concerns about price-gouging and affordability could be entirely behind us.

Generics are no longer cheap. But maybe had Ozempic been marketed in the 1990s maybe it would be like Zantac and available without a prescription, although not covered by most health insurance.

Pfizer tried for a non-injectable version but didn’t give the researchers enough time. Like a potential hit network television series, it fell by the wayside

…Of course, this isn’t how drug development works, at least outside of pandemic pressure. Even the most promising biomedical research tends to proceed in fits and starts, with disappointments and setbacks marking the path from insight to therapeutic use. In 1990, reviewing Flier’s team’s results, Pfizer gave the researchers one year to develop a non-injectable delivery system that might justify the expense

Expense because of the Food and Drug Administration approval process.

of developing an alternative to insulin — a quixotically short timeline that effectively doomed the project, forestalling work on some of the obvious next research steps.

From that point, Flier guesses that the next major breakthrough, identifying the enzyme that naturally degrades GLP-1 in minutes in order to develop a mechanism to counteract or stall that effect, would have taken only a few months. But “it wasn’t a sure thing,” he acknowledges, and “it’s almost always longer than you would imagine.” It took 15 years for Exendin-4, which was isolated from Gila monster venom in 1990, to make it to market as the first GLP-1 therapy, Exenatide. The original patent Flier and his colleagues licensed from Massachusetts General, which eventually passed to Novo Nordisk, didn’t yield an F.D.A.-approved drug until 2010. ..
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 1/6/2025 @ 11:53 am
But Flier’s memoir is not just a lament for what might have been. In the aftermath of the pandemic emergency, as citizens and officials alike have embraced a more libertarian attitude toward public health, there’s been a similar drift in the public conversation about drug discovery and development. Operation Warp Speed is often held up as a new model — calls for an Operation Warp Speed 2.0 have been followed by those for an Operation Warp Speed for everything — typically by advocates focused on the way that pandemic vaccine development streamlined some aspects of regulatory bureaucracy rather than on the impact of the enormous and unprecedented federal commitment to buy hundreds of millions of Covid vaccine doses whatever the results in the clinical trials (which were still completed). Many of the same reformers will complain about all the red tape at the F.D.A. and C.D.C., tallying up huge mortality costs imposed by slow-moving government, arguing for human challenge trials in which individuals volunteer to take untested drugs and be deliberately infected and even talking about the invisible graveyard of unnecessary regulation and delay.

This is all fine and good — there are surely lots of things those agencies can speed up. And in recent years, reformers of various stripes have lobbied some worthy additional proposals into the biomedical zeitgeist — for a system based not on patents but on huge and direct cash prizes for medical breakthroughs, for instance, or one helped along by advance market commitments or benevolent patent extensions.

These are very good ideas, but no big company has an interest in lobbying for it.

Just last week the researchers Willy Chertman and Ruxandra Tesloianu published “The Case for Clinical Trial Abundance,” an invigorating manifesto for drug development reform.

RFK Jr would probably stall things even more.

But the alternate history of Ozempic is also a reminder that there is another invisible graveyard — the one presided over, somewhat capriciously, by Big Pharma. And in focusing on government bureaucracy as the major biomedical bottleneck, we are seeing just one piece of the picture and overlooking what is perhaps the central challenge of research and development — that it is, at present, so complicated that difficulties or bad decisions at any stage can stifle the whole decades-long process, distorting the actual medical and public-health functions of drug development in countless ways.

Now, it’s not like the United States is exactly a drug-development backwater, at present, and there are good reasons to think we are not in a fallow period for medical breakthroughs but at the beginning of a new golden age.

No, the United States is not a backwater. Every place else is worse. But what we have now is not good. Ans the golden age was 1880 to 1960, especially 1935 to 1955.

“Those are business decisions, but they’re conditioned by scientific intuition,” Flier goes on. And with GLP-1s, he says, “if there had been a business leader who had the scientific intuition that this is too interesting to pass up on for a major disease, they would’ve moved ahead. That’s the way it works.”

No, there needs to be philanthropist, who understands this, which is rare.

Bill Gates could do a lot of good if he understood our current drug development system does not work.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 1/6/2025 @ 12:00 pm
Drug Development Failure (cited in the NYT piece)

https://muse.jhu.edu/article/936213

And you cite as faulty nd misleading all the fundraising for medical research. They present a misleading picture of the way things actually work. They worked more like that circa 1948, and even then it was already slower.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 1/6/2025 @ 12:04 pm
There are oral versions of GLP-1 drugs. They just don’t work as well and require larger and/or more frequent doses. Their primary use is where refrigeration isn’t a given.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/6/2025 @ 12:29 pm
But the cost of Ozempic is coming down, at least for most people. Two years ago, the cost WITH a good drug plan was $250/month. Now it’s under $50. The list price, particularly for Wegovy, is still high, but that’s mostly for people who don’t have a relevant diagnosis, such as people wanting to stay “slim.”
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/6/2025 @ 12:32 pm
@118 The ca. medical ass. charted hysterectomy operations and for some strange reason the chart slowly rose until nov. when it went vertical and know one could figure out why? One year it didn’t and then it went vertical in jan. and they realized their had been a 2 month dock strike and the new mercedes benz models were two months late so doctors didn’t need the money. Single payer will still pay doctors. Maybe they will have to save up so they wont have to sing “lord wont you buy me a mercedes benz!”
asset (b69ea8) — 1/6/2025 @ 1:43 pm
Single payer will still pay doctors. Maybe they will have to save up so they wont have to sing “lord wont you buy me a mercedes benz!”

So, the government will tell them how much they can be paid? Even Janis knew what “freedom” was.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/6/2025 @ 2:16 pm
Just saw that VP Harris certified the Election.

There were no objections to the election by Democrats… I first in this century I think? Right?

Harris couldn’t do any shenanigans since they updated the Electoral College Act, so, what she’s doing isn’t “braver” than what Pence did.

But, it’s good that she participated in a “peaceful” transition of power and should absolutely be commended.
whembly (477db6) — 1/6/2025 @ 2:16 pm
@142

Single payer will still pay doctors. Maybe they will have to save up so they wont have to sing “lord wont you buy me a mercedes benz!”

So, the government will tell them how much they can be paid? Even Janis knew what “freedom” was.

Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/6/2025 @ 2:16 pm

*waves*

Healthcare worker here supporting EMR systems with primary background in Pharmacy/Payors/PA systems.

The state/federal government already sets the reimbursement rates via insurance pathways.

So, if your issue is that “government will tell them how much they can be paid?”…that already exists.

My perspective is this: Since the government is largely setting the reimbursement rates, why NOT go single payor, ala Canada? Instead of having the umpteepth insurance entities we have in the US (payors), why not have one per state? Would be any worse than now? At least the overhead cost would be driven down, such that in theory insurance would be cheaper (or expanded services)???

Thoughts?
whembly (477db6) — 1/6/2025 @ 2:20 pm
It’s absolutely a scandal but the “didn’t want to seem racist” angle is post-hoc revisionism for the fact that the police were working with the abusers.

Davethulhu (8dce13) — 1/5/2025 @ 4:45 pm

So Prime Minister Starmer was working with the abusers? Do tell.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/6/2025 @ 5:33 pm
Rudy Giuliani Found in Contempt of Court in Election-Worker Case

A federal judge on Monday found Rudy Giuliani in contempt of court for failing to hand over documents to two former election workers he defamed, a development that could lead to additional fines or even jail time for the Donald Trump ally and former New York City mayor.

U.S. District Judge Lewis Liman’s finding came after a two-day hearing in federal court in Manhattan. Giuliani was questioned for hours about whether he complied with legal obligations to former election workers Ruby Freeman and her daughter Wandrea Moss, who are seeking financial documents and other information from his electronic devices to collect on a $148 million jury verdict they won against him.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/6/2025 @ 5:40 pm
My perspective is this: Since the government is largely setting the reimbursement rates, why NOT go single payer, ala Canada? Instead of having the umpteepth insurance entities we have in the US (payers), why not have one per state?

Medicare is claimed to be single-payer, but much of the Medicare system is run by private insurers. The drug plan (Part D), the HMO version (Medicare Advantage) and the various supplements to Original Medicare are all run by private insurers and make the actual system work.

Doctors do not have to take Medicare (or Medicaid) patients. There are variations in what they will receive based on the setting of their practice and the state in which they practice. Medicare add-ons are substantially lower-cost in NM than CA.

In a true single-payer system, it’s one size-fits-all. If the system says you can’t ahve it, then you can’t have it. If you can have it, the provider gets the posted price and no more.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/6/2025 @ 5:47 pm
Why not have one brand of toothpaste?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/6/2025 @ 5:47 pm
Single payer will still pay doctors.

So, the government will tell (doctors) how much they can be paid?

Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/6/2025 @ 2:16 pm

Medicare and Medicaid do the same. What’s the diff?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/6/2025 @ 6:18 pm
Looks like the current Bird Flu has jumped and become deadly. Just in time for stupid Hitler to take over. I’m sure it will be fine if only you inject some disinfectant and shove a lightbulb up your…
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 1/6/2025 @ 7:39 pm
“So Prime Minister Starmer was working with the abusers? Do tell.”

He was part of the general unconcern by British law enforcement to investigate child abuse, until Jimmy Savile made things too obvious to ignore. But he wasn’t working directly with the gangs like the South Yorkshire police were.
Davethulhu (a19a27) — 1/6/2025 @ 9:15 pm
@150 Let me guess. Wet market?
lloyd (ab44dc) — 1/6/2025 @ 10:12 pm
Even eggs are more expensive in CA. $5/dozen here, $9/dozen there.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/6/2025 @ 11:08 pm
Medicare and Medicaid do the same. What’s the diff?

Doctors can opt out of those. “Single-payer” sounds all-inclusive.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/6/2025 @ 11:09 pm
So, CES 2025 is all about “AI.” Or what they call AI. I have a test: I want a device that I can dump all my dirty clothes in, and it washes them, dries them, irons what needs ironing, folds them, matches the socks and stacks them all nicely in a basket. Mom is no longer available.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/6/2025 @ 11:25 pm
@147

My perspective is this: Since the government is largely setting the reimbursement rates, why NOT go single payer, ala Canada? Instead of having the umpteepth insurance entities we have in the US (payers), why not have one per state?

Medicare is claimed to be single-payer, but much of the Medicare system is run by private insurers. The drug plan (Part D), the HMO version (Medicare Advantage) and the various supplements to Original Medicare are all run by private insurers and make the actual system work.

Doctors do not have to take Medicare (or Medicaid) patients. There are variations in what they will receive based on the setting of their practice and the state in which they practice. Medicare add-ons are substantially lower-cost in NM than CA.

In a true single-payer system, it’s one size-fits-all. If the system says you can’t ahve it, then you can’t have it. If you can have it, the provider gets the posted price and no more.

Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/6/2025 @ 5:47 pm

Again, please read what I’m trying to convey.

Yes, Medicare/Medicaid is administered by private insurance companies… BUT, reimbursement rates, based on complicated rulings and statutes, are SET by legislation and/or agency rules.

In short, it is the government that is setting the baseline reimbursement rates.

This impacts private insurance reimbursement rates as well, as these private companies uses these government baseline reimbursement rates as a “starting point” in their negotiation with group/employer plans.

You know the parable of the camel’s nose (government) peeking into the tent (healthcare)?

That camel is lounging in your bedroll eating bon-bons with no indication anyone would be able to kick it out of the tent.
whembly (477db6) — 1/7/2025 @ 6:31 am
@150

Looks like the current Bird Flu has jumped and become deadly. Just in time for stupid Hitler to take over. I’m sure it will be fine if only you inject some disinfectant and shove a lightbulb up your…

Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 1/6/2025 @ 7:39 pm

Oh look, the habitual liar is lying again.

*pikachu shocked face*
whembly (477db6) — 1/7/2025 @ 6:33 am
R.I.P. Jean-Marie Le Pen, 96, French fascist

Le Pen’s rhetoric—which ranged from nativist diatribes to antisemitic remarks—made him a pariah across Europe’s political establishment and, at times, a source of embarrassment to his own daughter. In 2015, she ejected her father from the party over his repeated characterization of Nazi gas chambers as a “detail of history.”
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/7/2025 @ 7:58 am
https://notthebee.com/article/in-final-days-biden-moves-to-ban-natural-gas-water-heaters

More totalitarian edicts by the leftist regime.

Voting for leftists is voting yourself into slavery.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/7/2025 @ 8:48 am
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/7/2025 @ 7:58 am

Jean-Marie Le Pen deserves no requiescat in pace.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/7/2025 @ 9:39 am
Trump won’t rule out military or economic coercion to acquire Greenland, Panama Canal

Asked by a reporter (during his Tuesday press conference) whether he can assure the public that he will not use military or economic coercion to get control of Greenland and the Panama Canal, Trump flatly said “no.”

“No, I can’t assure you on either of those two. But I can say this. We need them for economic security,” Trump said.

The declaration came as his eldest son Donald Trump Jr. arrived in Greenland on Tuesday morning amid increasing speculation that the incoming U.S. administration may seek to acquire the island, an autonomous territory of Denmark.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/7/2025 @ 10:05 am
Trump’s judge quashes Jack Smith’s report to the AG on the classified documents case. Roy Cohn’s ghost is dancing a jig.
Paul Montagu (7329e4) — 1/7/2025 @ 10:06 am
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/7/2025 @ 10:05 am

Related:

The new king of Denmark has changed the country’s royal coat of arms to more prominently feature Greenland in an apparent rebuke of President-elect Donald Trump’s plan to take over the autonomous island.

King Frederik X started the new year by revealing his new royal coat of arms, which for five centuries has featured the three crowns of the Kalmar Union — a polity that existed from 1397 to 1523 consisting of the kingdoms of Denmark, Norway and Sweden, the Guardian reported.

The crowns have been removed and replaced by much larger images of a polar bear and ram — symbols of Greenland and the Faroe Islands, respectively.
……….
Sources close to the president told The Post Trump is “100% serious’’ about acquiring Greenland as part of his America-first strategy to counter China and Russia.
##########
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/7/2025 @ 10:10 am
@162

Trump’s judge quashes Jack Smith’s report to the AG on the classified documents case. Roy Cohn’s ghost is dancing a jig.

Paul Montagu (7329e4) — 1/7/2025 @ 10:06 am

It’s just an injunction until 3 days after whatever 11th circuit rules.

But, Smith can still leak it.
whembly (477db6) — 1/7/2025 @ 10:21 am
Smith is breaking the law by releasing anything. He has no authority and was not legally in his position of authority.

So please go ahead and support the lawbreaker. It just shows the fraud to the claims of justice that Smith appealed to.
NJRob (c9b2e0) — 1/7/2025 @ 10:30 am
This is the crazybus nonsense the American people elected…

“They brought this moron [Jack Smith] out of The Hague.”
(Moron? Does it matter that he was an ICC prosecutor?)

“He’s a mean guy. He’s a mean, nasty guy.”
(projection, coming from a bully)

“His picture was perfect because you look at his picture, you say that’s a bad guy…”
(shades of Xi and Milley, shallowly judging a guy by his looks)

“…with his robe, his purple robe…”
(Huh? Smith is a prosecutor, not a judge. ICC judges wear blue robes. What American judges wear purple robes? Is Trump accusing Smith of being a Freemason?)

“…and he executes people.”
(A lie. He had one death penalty case, and the death penalty was overturned)

“He shouldn’t be allowed to execute people because he will execute everybody! He’s a nut job.”
(More ranting projection from a nutjob. Smith never had the power to sentence the death penalty)

“But we won all of those cases with him.”
(Another lie. Trump won the presidency, not his criminal court cases)

“We have to find out about Hezbollah. We have to find out about who exactly was in that whole thing because people that did some bad things were not prosecuted.”
(Hezbollah? The gang of terrorists he praised as “very smart”?)

Can we start questioning Trump’s declining mental acuity now?
Paul Montagu (7329e4) — 1/7/2025 @ 10:47 am
Smith is breaking the law by releasing anything. He has no authority and was not legally in his position of authority.

Twaddle.
Smith reports to the AG. If the AG requests a final report, then Smith writes one.
Paul Montagu (7329e4) — 1/7/2025 @ 10:48 am
whembly, by the time the 11th Circuit rules, Garland won’t be AG, so it’ll be quashed after 1/20/2025 even if the appeals court overturns Cannon, hence my comment about Cohn.
Paul Montagu (7329e4) — 1/7/2025 @ 10:50 am
Smith is breaking the law by releasing anything. He has no authority and was not legally in his position of authority.

While is unclear whether the two-volume report has been delivered to the Attorney General, Garland does have the authority to release it, if the injunction is lifted. Since the cases against Trump have been dismissed, the injunction was sought (in very colorful language) by his two co-defendants, Walt Nauta and Carlos De Oliveira.

The best course of action for the Special Counsel would be to dismiss the charges against Nauta and De Oliveira, which would mean they would have no standing to challenge the report’s release. That is going to happen anyway.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/7/2025 @ 11:04 am
@167

Smith reports to the AG. If the AG requests a final report, then Smith writes one.

Paul Montagu (7329e4) — 1/7/2025 @ 10:48 am

Except Smith is not a special counsel anymore, since Judge Cannon’s ruling is still the law of the land.

As such, Smith is not ALLOWED to have/read/use grand jury information. Furthermore, since he’s not a valid special counsel, the “report” isn’t required anymore.
whembly (477db6) — 1/7/2025 @ 11:06 am
Sad!

A Jan. 6 rioter who enlisted the help of his Mormon lawmaker “friends” to try and get permission to attend Donald Trump‘s inauguration has been denied, along with a man from Maine who is accused of wielding a hockey stick and a bullhorn during the 2021 attack and a Mississippi defendant who allegedly harassed cops with a flagpole.

Russell Taylor, who pleaded guilty earlier this year to obstruction of an official proceeding — a charge that the Supreme Court ruled in June was wrongly applied to Jan. 6 defendants — had his request shot down on Friday by U.S. District Judge Royce Lamberth, a Ronald Reagan appointee. Taylor, a California resident with ties to Utah, is on probation for storming the U.S. Capitol with a knife, bear spray, hatchet and other weapons.

Maine resident Christopher Belliveau, who has pleaded not guilty to his Jan. 6 charges, was denied Thursday by U.S. District Judge Timothy Kelly, a Trump appointee. Thomas Eugene Tatum, also known as Tommy Tatum, of Mississippi, had his request struck down Saturday by U.S. District Judge John Bates, a George W. Bush appointee, as he faces charges for felony civil disorder by obstructing, impeding, or interfering with law enforcement officers engaged in official duties, as well as other misdemeanors.
……….
Justice Department prosecutors argued against allowing all three of the defendants to attend, saying it would be inappropriate and unsafe.
……….
“To attend the Presidential Inauguration, which celebrates and honors the peaceful transfer of power, is an immense privilege,” Lamberth said. “It would not be appropriate for the Court to grant permission to attend such a hallowed event to someone who carried weapons and threatened police officers in an attempt to thwart the last Inauguration, and who openly glorified ‘insurrection’ against the United States.”
……….
Bates, in Tatum’s case, pointed to the “breadth and depth of charges” he’s facing for his Jan. 6 conduct, “nearly all of which involve physical violence or the use of a dangerous or deadly weapon,” the judge said.

“The government avers that it has video evidence of this conduct. Hence, the Court concludes that the prohibition on unauthorized travel to the District of Columbia remains a necessary condition of release to ensure community safety,” Bates concluded.
………..
According to Lamberth, Taylor’s request presented the “narrow question” of whether a person who conspired and acted to “thwart the peaceful transfer of power four years ago with incitement, threats, and weapons” should now be granted special permission to attend the exact same event.

“The answer to that question is ‘no,’ whether or not he is, generally speaking, a good person,” Lamberth concluded.
……….
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/7/2025 @ 11:22 am
Except Smith is not a special counsel anymore, since Judge Cannon’s ruling is still the law of the land.

It’s only the law in the Southern District of Florida, if that.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/7/2025 @ 11:24 am
As I said,

It just shows the fraud to the claims of justice that Smith appealed to.
NJRob (c9b2e0) — 1/7/2025 @ 11:28 am
Can we start questioning Trump’s declining mental acuity now?

I was questioning it in his first term. Also his mental health. I am surprised that it has not declined more than it appears to have.

Still, the American people preferred him over the Establishment candidate which doesn’t reflect well on the Establishment.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/7/2025 @ 11:36 am
King Frederik X started the new year by revealing his new royal coat of arms, which for five centuries has featured the three crowns of the Kalmar Union — a polity that existed from 1397 to 1523 consisting of the kingdoms of Denmark, Norway and Sweden, the Guardian reported.

The crowns have been removed and replaced by much larger images of a polar bear and ram — symbols of Greenland and the Faroe Islands, respectively.

So, he has finally given up claims to Sweden and Norway? What does that say about the permanence (or veracity) of his claim to Greenland?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/7/2025 @ 11:38 am
BTW, Trump is right to trash Biden for his silly and wrong ban on new natural gas water heaters, and he’s right to point out that we need more electricity for AI and a functioning economy. However, the only prescription he regularly talks about is “drill, baby, drill”, but not so gung ho on nuclear.
Paul Montagu (7329e4) — 1/7/2025 @ 11:38 am
@172

Except Smith is not a special counsel anymore, since Judge Cannon’s ruling is still the law of the land.

It’s only the law in the Southern District of Florida, if that.

Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/7/2025 @ 11:24 am

The defendants can/should sue for violations of due process rights in Florida as well.
whembly (477db6) — 1/7/2025 @ 11:47 am
So, he has finally given up claims to Sweden and Norway? What does that say about the permanence (or veracity) of his claim to Greenland?

Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/7/2025 @ 11:38 am

Since the King added the symbol for Greenland to his coat of arms, I’d say it bodes well for Denmark retaining the territory; unless the US launches a military expeditionary force to occupy it.
Rip Murdock (9bda50) — 1/7/2025 @ 11:50 am
RIP Peter Yarrow of Peter, Paul, & Mary (86); he wrote their most famous song, “Puff the Magic Dragon.”
Rip Murdock (9bda50) — 1/7/2025 @ 11:55 am
I do hope the members of our MAGA group who like to complain about foreverwars have noticed that their hero just decided to “not rule out” military action against a NATO ally, because he wants to take some land from them.

Guess they welcome their responsibility for that with open arms.
Appalled (040c23) — 1/7/2025 @ 12:02 pm
Appalled, no one is responsible for the foreverwars confined to your imagination.
lloyd (8e04af) — 1/7/2025 @ 12:21 pm
Lloyd:

The proper phrase is “Endless Wars”. As in:

[Liz Chaney] a Warmonger of low intelligence. All she wants to do is kill people in “Endless Wars,” with no gain other than to defense companies.

(Quoted from Donald Trump’s tweet on Liz’s Medal of Honor)

Foreverwar might be a phrase remembered from something asset linked to at one time or another. Thanks for helping me get my phraseology straight. Your reward is you get to see if Donald is going to launch a war of conquest, and be proud of the next four years.
Appalled (040c23) — 1/7/2025 @ 12:40 pm
Jean-Marie Le Pen deserves no requiescat in pace.

Perhaps not, but I am reluctant to spin my Karma wheel so casually.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/7/2025 @ 12:44 pm
RIP Peter Yarrow of Peter, Paul, & Mary (86); he wrote their most famous song, “Puff the Magic Dragon.”

“Dragons live forever, but not so little boys.”
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/7/2025 @ 1:23 pm
Pacific Palisades in Los Angeles under total evacuation order. The fire will probably spread to the hilly portion of Brentwood. The Getty Center grounds are on fire. Earlier today there was a small evacuation order, and people went to work thinking they’d have time. They didn’t. A lot of people trying to go back into the fire zone to get pets. Others trying to leave have had to abandon cars and walk down to the beach.

https://apnews.com/article/wildfire-southern-california-santa-ana-winds-c48661615061eb631784b666cddfa4ac

Fire map: https://www.latimes.com/wildfires-map/
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/7/2025 @ 6:10 pm
Pro tip: If you are fleeing a fire and need to abandon your car, LEAVE THE KEYS.

Otherwise
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/7/2025 @ 6:43 pm
It’s sad to see that, despite all the support we’ve provided Israel, they decided to use their space lasers on California again.
Davethulhu (1db0cc) — 1/7/2025 @ 7:59 pm
There is no way on earth that Israel would target that part of L.A. More synagogues per square mile than anywhere in the US outside of NYC.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/7/2025 @ 9:06 pm
Still, the American people preferred him over the Establishment candidate which doesn’t reflect well on the Establishment.

Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/7/2025 @ 11:36 am

I think you have that backwards, Kevin. It doesn’t reflect well on the American people.
norcal (a72384) — 1/7/2025 @ 11:33 pm
Another well run blue city.

Lack of water from hydrants in Palisades fire is hurting firefighting efforts
lloyd (1be1dd) — 1/8/2025 @ 7:38 am
norcal (a72384) — 1/7/2025 @ 11:33 pm

That’s quite a turn, from saving democracy to trashing it.
lloyd (0be402) — 1/8/2025 @ 7:41 am
@189

I think you have that backwards, Kevin. It doesn’t reflect well on the American people.

norcal (a72384) — 1/7/2025 @ 11:33 pm

Mmm, no, it’s you that has it backwards.

Trump is a reaction to the Establishment.

If the Establishment doesn’t want someone like Trump winning elections, then the Establishment needs to offer up better candidates and be more responsive to the people.

Trump doesn’t happen in a vacuum.
whembly (477db6) — 1/8/2025 @ 8:51 am
I think you have that backwards, Kevin. It doesn’t reflect well on the American people.

No, it doesn’t reflect well on those who were runnin g things and pissed too many people off with their incompetence and self-serving. Populism does NOT “just happen” — it takes a “long train of abuses” before people who hate politics start organizing.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/8/2025 @ 9:36 am
Trump is the top 1% of the top 1%. He’s the Establishment by default.
Paul Montagu (9795c9) — 1/8/2025 @ 9:40 am
Back when I went to high school, a sizable portion of the US-born Black and Anglo kids took shop classes and found jobs in the trades making pretty good money. What do you suppose the chance of that is now, at least in the Southwest? This is just one prong of the perfect storm that led to Trump and the Establishment, affected only in the lowering costs of their home remodels and gardening services, did nothing.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/8/2025 @ 9:44 am
The Getty Center grounds are on fire.

Not so, it is the Getty Villa in Malibu that is threatened.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/8/2025 @ 9:46 am
Trump is the top 1% of the top 1%. He’s the Establishment by default.

So what? The Committee of Public Safety in the French Revolution was mostly lawyers and other bourgeoisie.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/8/2025 @ 9:47 am
Not so, it is the Getty Villa in Malibu that is threatened.

You are correct. Earlier reports were mistaken. However, the evacuation zone is moving that way, now covering all of Mandeville Canyon. If the fire crests over that last peak, there will be no stopping it before the 405.

A house my parents built in 1960 is up Eaton Canyon, smack dab in the center of the Eaton fire. I expect it will burn. Most of my father’s extended family lives in Sierra Madre, Arcadia and Monrovia.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/8/2025 @ 9:54 am
The expensive part of Santa Monica (between Montana Ave and San Vicente) is under evacuation warning, It is the 3rd most expensive zip code (90402) in the US. Everything north of San Vicente, in both SM and Brentwood, is evacuated. The cost of this fire is almost incalculable.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/8/2025 @ 9:58 am
When I was in college, we were asked to develop an engineering study of our choice. My group of reprobates decided to see what would be needed to protect Los Angeles from a small group of committed terrorists. Of course to do that, we had to find what was vulnerable to such a group. We found that setting numerous wildfires during Santa Ana wind conditions (like today) would be quite effective and there wasn’t really much that could be done to prevent it.

The college asked us not to publish the paper.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/8/2025 @ 10:04 am
These fires aren’t all that unusual. Here’s a picture of a celebrity homeowner trying to save his Bel-Air house in 1961.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/8/2025 @ 10:45 am
So what? The Committee of Public Safety in the French Revolution was mostly lawyers and other bourgeoisie.

The point is that Trump’s fight against the The Establishment is a crock. He is The Establishment, having already been president, and soon to be The Establishment again.
Paul Montagu (9795c9) — 1/8/2025 @ 10:52 am
Yet he aims to tear down the structure that supports the Establishment. It must leave you scratching your head.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/8/2025 @ 11:19 am
He has 13 billionaires in his cabinet or other appointed positions. The Establishment isn’t going anywhere.
Davethulhu (14e9e4) — 1/8/2025 @ 12:07 pm
Yet he aims to tear down the structure that supports the Establishment.

What’s funny, Kevin, is you actually believe that brainless rhetoric. I didn’t expect that from you.
Paul Montagu (9795c9) — 1/8/2025 @ 1:36 pm
What’s funny, Kevin, is you actually believe that brainless rhetoric. I didn’t expect that from you.

I know that you think he’s just foolin’ the rubes. I don’t. And when he does what he says he will do (badly), you will be the first to complain.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/8/2025 @ 4:45 pm
Fire news: A friend of mine lost his house in the Palisades. He got out with the kids, the cats and the “important stuff”, but still…
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/8/2025 @ 4:46 pm
And here’s the thing Paul (and ‘thulhu): You see the Establishment being the rich. Many of us see the Establishment being the Administrative State and their clients.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/8/2025 @ 4:49 pm
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/8/2025 @ 4:46 pm

Paradise can be dangerous.

Like I’ve said before, California is an ongoing experiment on just how much grief (whether political or natural) people will put up with in exchange for a nice climate and a coastline.
norcal (a72384) — 1/8/2025 @ 4:50 pm
Yeah. My friend had the most gorgeous hillside view of the Pacific. Fire came straight up the terraced hill.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/8/2025 @ 5:01 pm
And when he does what he says he will do (badly), you will be the first to complain.

Sigh. Resorting to a bogus and silly hypothetical. Don’t try to read my mind, Kevin, because you suck at it.
Paul Montagu (9795c9) — 1/8/2025 @ 5:53 pm
The Amazon Prime algorithms have a sick sense of humor.
Under “Movies We Think You’d Like”, their second recommendation was a movie called “Fire Twister”, and here’s the blurb: “A man-made fire twister sweeps through Los Angeles, leaving the city in ruins.”

My sister lives in Laguna Niguel, and she said it was ultra windy and ultra dry, but no nearby fires.
Paul Montagu (9795c9) — 1/8/2025 @ 5:56 pm
As an aficionado of cheesy sci-fi, Fire Twister is vats of Velveeta cheesy.
Paul Montagu (9795c9) — 1/8/2025 @ 6:14 pm
There’s no excuse for Palisades or any other municipality to run out of water to stop wildfires. This is why we pay taxes to city governments and fire districts.

There’s also no excuse for a president-elect to completely make sh-t up about a “water restoration declaration” that doesn’t exist, or that endangered smelt in the Bay Area delta have anything to do with the water situation in LA.
The way Trump talks, there’s some kind of spigot or pipeline that can send water from Washington-Oregon to California.
Paul Montagu (9795c9) — 1/8/2025 @ 7:22 pm
Paul Montagu (9795c9) — 1/8/2025 @ 7:22 pm

Oh look, it’s Paul and his bubble news narratives.

February 2020:
Trump Signs Order Diverting More Water to California Farmers

President Donald Trump made good on a campaign promise Wednesday to send more water from Northern California to cities and farmers in the state’s central and southern regions – a move denounced by critics as harmful to endangered species and destined to spur lawsuits on several fronts.

Speaking at an event in Bakersfield, Trump signed a memorandum that will allow the federal government to redirect millions of gallons of water to the Central Valley and Southern California. Trump said that water, managed by a large network of dams, canals, pumps and tunnels, was being “needlessly flushed” into the Pacific Ocean.

California Governor Gavin Newsom immediately responded with threats of litigation.

“We will file legal action in the coming days to challenge the federal biological opinions to protect highly imperiled fish species close to extinction,” Newsom said in a statement Wednesday.

California Attorney General Xavier Becerra, who has sued the Trump administration more than 60 times over policy disputes, said his office stands ready to file more litigation.

“California won’t allow the Trump administration to destroy and deplete our natural resources,” Becerra said in a statement. “We’re prepared to challenge the Trump administration’s harmful attack on our state’s critical ecosystems and environment.”
lloyd (f03932) — 1/8/2025 @ 7:48 pm
Oh look, it’s Paul and his bubble news narratives.

Indeed, so bubbly, lloyd. Your link has no applicity to southern Cal water, because the water situation is way more complex than a simpleton like Trump should even approach, let alone try to “solve”.
Paul Montagu (9795c9) — 1/8/2025 @ 8:18 pm
Newsom was warned

Trump has previously criticized Newsom for his handling of fires and told him he needs to better manage the state’s many annual wildfires.

In a visit to The Golden State in November of 2018, the then president and newly elected governor both met following the devastating Camp Fire. Speaking during their visit to Skyway Villa Mobile Home and RV Park in Paradise, California, Trump warned ‘you’ve got to take care of the floors’.

Footage of their exchange has resurfaced online amid calls for Newsom to stand down as wildfires ravage parts of Los Angeles, amid complains about fire hydrants not having water and power lines not being shut off. In the 2018 clip, he said: ‘Get all of this cleaned out and protected. You’ve gotta take care of the floors. The floors of the forest.’

Trump again hit the governor in 2019 for doing a ‘terrible job’ managing the states forests.
‘I told him from the first day we met that he must ‘clean’ his forest floors regardless of what his bosses, the environmentalists, DEMAND of him,’ Trump posted at the time.
‘Must also do burns and cut fire stoppers,’ he added, in reference to forest management policies that were being overlooked.
lloyd (f03932) — 1/8/2025 @ 8:23 pm
Paul’s source:

‘There is no such document as the water restoration declaration – that is pure fiction,’ a spokesperson for Newsom wrote.

Swallowed it hook, line and sinker.
lloyd (f03932) — 1/8/2025 @ 8:26 pm
The thing is that SoCal has always had fires. Sometimes bad ones.

There are water issues, as water is increasingly diverted from the aqueduct to flow into SF Bay, water from the Colorado River is increasingly diverted to Arizona, wter storage has been reduced as reservoirs have been taken offline, and rainfall patterns aren’t as reliable. No real effort has been made to store water long term in the low desert, despite repeated false starts. And of course, the population has increased.

But these fires are a perfect storm. They seem pernicious, actually. Blaming it on “Water” may hold some truth, but not the whole truth, and probably not even most of it. Blaming it on “climate change” isn’t satisfactory either, and offers little hope going forward.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/8/2025 @ 10:59 pm
that endangered smelt in the Bay Area delta have anything to do with the water situation in LA.

It has reduced the flow in the aqueduct, which has reduced the water available to store. Blaming the whole thing on that is moronic, of course, but it DID contribute.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/8/2025 @ 11:01 pm
@lloyd@215 One of the problems of sending too much water down to socal is that it results in increased salt water incursion into the delta and so increases salt water incursion into land farmed by delta farmers because there isn’t enough fresh water coming out of the river into the estuaries to flush it out. It also reduces the water making it back into our aquifers and reduces the water available to norcal farmers. Socal doesn’t have enough water to support it’s population and industry, norcal does have enough to support itself, but in dry years only just enough. Maybe Trump wants to finance the building of an aqueduct from OR and WA?
Nic (120c94) — 1/8/2025 @ 11:03 pm
It is time to add a cost/benefit rule to the Endangered Species Act. Right now it’s an absolute. Not every species is worth saving at unrestricted cost. The Delta smelt is a slightly differently colored variation of smelt that has failed in its environment. It’s almost as if no one believes in evolution any more. Survival of the fittest has implications.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/8/2025 @ 11:06 pm
Nic,

There is plenty of water — we let most rainwater flow to the ocean, even right there in Socal. Storage is the way forward. Maybe it takes 10 years, but if you never start….
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/8/2025 @ 11:08 pm
Having grown up in LA, I am devastated by what I am seeing.

It’s none of my business, but is Patterico’s house okay? I worry.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 1/9/2025 @ 8:36 am
Swallowed it hook, line and sinker.

Yes, you did, lloyd.

Newsom has never refused to sign a “water restoration declaration.” In fact, there is no such document, as Newsom’s office said on social media on Wednesday and experts on California water policy confirmed. As of early Thursday morning, Trump’s presidential transition team had not provided a response to CNN’s request from Wednesday afternoon to identify what Trump was talking about.

“There was no ‘water restoration declaration’ for him to sign,” Jeffrey Mount, a senior fellow in the Water Policy Center at the Public Policy Institute of California think tank, said in a Wednesday interview.

“There was never a ‘water restoration declaration’ in California that the Governor refused to sign,” Brent Haddad, an environmental studies professor at the University of California, Santa Cruz, said in a Wednesday email.

In 2020, Newsom did mount a legal challenge to a Trump plan to deliver more water from Northern California to farmers in the state’s Central Valley agricultural hub, saying he was seeking “to protect highly imperiled fish species close to extinction” in the Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta in the north. But contrary to Trump’s assertion, this federal initiative was not a declaration for Newsom to “sign” or not – and critically, as we’ll explain in the fact-check item below, experts say there is no connection between this long-running policy battle and the current fires.
Paul Montagu (b55108) — 1/9/2025 @ 9:19 am
Regarding fire prevention, there’s a good argument for more water storage, close to at-risk areas and, right now, the reservoirs are pretty full. More here…

As for the smelt, Trump is being disingenuous. The problem is that there’s only so much water to go around in California, and even less when you consider its regular droughts. The water coming into the river delta is freshwater, but where it meets the ocean it becomes salty. Newsom, environmentalists and the commercial fishing industry have generally pushed for more freshwater coming downstream not just to protect the smelt, but also to help more valuable fish, such as salmon and steelhead, which spawn there.

But that’s not the only issue. When the river starts running low, either from a drought or from people drawing too much water out of it, the saltwater starts creeping further upstream, Mount explained. As it does, it damages the local plants and wildlife. And if it gets too far upstream, it will eventually spoil the freshwater that’s being piped to farmers, nearby towns and other users.

As Mount put it, even if you don’t care about the fish, you still need to let some freshwater go downstream or nobody will get anything.

So what about Trump’s implication that the renegotiated deal somehow caused the fires or made them harder to fight? Well, remember that Trump wanted more of that water to go to nut and fruit farmers in areas, most of whom support him, and not to the residents of Los Angeles, most of whom don’t. His feud with Newsom isn’t really about the area on fire at all.

On Palisades…

Regardless, this wildfire was caused by a combination of a drought, extremely high winds and long-ago decisions by planners and developers about how far into the hills to build — not the county’s supply of water. It’s true that some fire hydrants ran dry as the Palisades Fire burned on, but that’s because the county has underinvested in the firefighting infrastructure in the area. In short, they had enough water for fire hydrants, just not enough tanks to hold it.

All these at-risk communities in the hills need to invest in more prevention infrastructure, because how many insurers are going to take the risk?
Paul Montagu (b55108) — 1/9/2025 @ 9:31 am
It’s none of my business, but is Patterico’s house okay? I worry.

He’s in an area far from the fires.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/9/2025 @ 10:10 am
@208

And here’s the thing Paul (and ‘thulhu): You see the Establishment being the rich. Many of us see the Establishment being the Administrative State and their clients.

Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/8/2025 @ 4:49 pm

Exactly right Kev.

whembly (477db6) — 1/9/2025 @ 10:15 am
Paul,

The real problem is that this is an unusually destructive event. The Big One would have done less damage. It is not the “new normal” as those who want to avoid blame will assert.

Water storage has remained the same (or declined, as some reservoirs have been taken off-line due to marginal concerns over potability) while the population has increased at a higher than normal rate, largely due to unexpected immigration.

Attempts to store more water have been repeatedly rebuffed by environmental myopathy. While putting reservoirs in natural depressions in the desert may stress some local species, lack of water stresses far more species in the wider area. But doing nothing requires no permit.

If this kind of event can now be expected every few years, for whatever reason, the region becomes uninhabitable. I wonder about the financial hits that those who lost houses will take — fire insurance will pay for rebuilding, but the value of the land is now less.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/9/2025 @ 10:21 am
“And here’s the thing Paul (and ‘thulhu): You see the Establishment being the rich. Many of us see the Establishment being the Administrative State and their clients.”

The administrative state is controlled by and works for the benefit of the rich.
Davethulhu (14e9e4) — 1/9/2025 @ 10:26 am
My sister lives in Laguna Niguel, and she said it was ultra windy and ultra dry, but no nearby fires.

And it is covered in the same chaparral ecosystem that is found throughout SoCal. One for the reasons I don’t believe these fires “just happened.”
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/9/2025 @ 10:27 am
The administrative state is controlled by and works for the benefit of the rich.

Pull the other one.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/9/2025 @ 10:28 am
#208 and #228

The billionaires supporting Trump will makes some tweaks to the establishment. (Probably featuring more outright corruption and kickbacks to the politically established). I hope that you guys deign to notice.
Appalled (a2bc16) — 1/9/2025 @ 11:14 am
My acid test is whether the Dept of Ed survives, or whether education is returned to the states where it belongs.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/9/2025 @ 11:17 am
The Big One would have done less damage.

Hardly. The only things that has been lost is property (and sadly, 5 lives.).The Big One will destroy water and natural gas pipelines and pumping stations, sewage systems, electric power stations and lines, hospitals, freeways, and kill hundreds if not thousands.
Rip Murdock (9bda50) — 1/9/2025 @ 11:18 am
#234

That requires Congressional action and will be filibustered. So maybe your acid test should be whethr the Senate throws out the filibuster? (Apologies in advance for sounding a bit like Rip)
Appalled (a2bc16) — 1/9/2025 @ 11:25 am
If this kind of event can now be expected every few years, for whatever reason, the region becomes uninhabitable.

Don’t be so melodramatic. While multiple fires of this intensity all at once is unusual, large fires in LA County (particularly during the “rainy” season with no rain), are not.

As long as I’ve lived here (most of my life), the San Gabriel and Santa Monica Mountains have burned. I can recall at least five large fires in the San Gabriels (above the San Gabriel and the San Fernando Valleys) during the 60s and 70s.

And periodically Malibu, Bel Air, and Topanga Canyon have burned. In November 1961 a fire in Bel Air destroyed nearly 500 homes, fueled Santa Ana winds. In 1978 a fire in Mandeville Canyon destroyed 200 homes.

Earthquakes and fires, part of life in Southern California.
Rip Murdock (9bda50) — 1/9/2025 @ 11:41 am
My acid test is whether the Dept of Ed survives, or whether education is returned to the states where it belongs.

Kevin M (a9545f) — 1/9/2025 @ 11:17 am

The Department may be disestablished (unlikely) but federal education programs will still survive.
Rip Murdock (9bda50) — 1/9/2025 @ 11:46 am
I’m sure schools in states won by Trump benefit from federal education grants.
Rip Murdock (9bda50) — 1/9/2025 @ 11:49 am
That (disestablishing the Department of Education) requires Congressional action and will be filibustered. So maybe your acid test should be whethr the Senate throws out the filibuster? (Apologies in advance for sounding a bit like Rip)

Appalled (a2bc16) — 1/9/2025 @ 11:25 am

LOL! I’m glad someone else recognizes the limitations of what can be accomplished with the filibuster rule in place. 😏
Rip Murdock (9bda50) — 1/9/2025 @ 11:54 am
I’d like to see the 1968 Gun Control Act repealed, but I know it’s not gonna happen with the filibuster rule in place.
Rip Murdock (9bda50) — 1/9/2025 @ 11:57 am
Paul Montagu (b55108) — 1/9/2025 @ 9:19 am

LOL Paul. Newsom blocked a thing that Trump tried to push through. That thing exists and is a real thing but isn’t named what Trump called it. Therefore, Trump lied!

Daniel Dale CNN, no less. The guy who debunked the false story that Biden was looking at his watch, which was actually a true story. Kick your bubble media habit, Paul.
lloyd (c244f1) — 1/9/2025 @ 12:27 pm
@241 ronald reagan pushed 1968 gun law to disarm black people.
asset (ce3899) — 1/9/2025 @ 1:42 pm
@241 ronald reagan pushed 1968 gun law to disarm black people.

asset (ce3899) — 1/9/2025 @ 1:42 pm

Source? It was more likely that the assassinations of MLK and RFK had more to do with the 1968 Gun Control Act than Reagan, who as governor signed the Mulford Act restricting the public display of loaded firearms.
Rip Murdock (9bda50) — 1/9/2025 @ 2:07 pm
Whatever President Trump or Governor Newsom did or didn’t do regarding California’s water supply as discussed above is irrelevant to Los Angeles. The federal Central Valley Water Project (which transfers water from the Sacramento Delta south) doesn’t provide any water directly to the city.

Los Angeles gets its water (for the past 112 years) from the Owens Valley (via the Los Angeles Aqueduct) which on eastern side of the Sierra Nevada and the Colorado River (since the 1930s via the Colorado Aqueduct) through the regional Metropolitan Water District.
Rip Murdock (9bda50) — 1/9/2025 @ 2:48 pm
RIP Anita Bryant (84).
Rip Murdock (9bda50) — 1/9/2025 @ 3:36 pm
The Supreme Court has denied President-Elect Trump’s appeal to delay his NY state criminal sentencing hearing.
Rip Murdock (9bda50) — 1/9/2025 @ 4:34 pm
Rip Murdock (9bda50) — 1/9/2025 @ 4:34 pm

……….
The five justice majority that voted to deny Trump’s application wrote that the evidentiary issues Trump has complained about “can be addressed in the ordinary course on appeal.”

They also noted that the judge overseeing Trump’s New York case has signaled he will not sentence Trump to serve any time in jail, writing “the burden that sentencing will impose on the President-Elect’s responsibilities is relatively insubstantial in light of the trial court’s stated intent to impose a sentence of ‘unconditional discharge’ after a brief virtual hearing.”
…………
Justices Clarence Thomas, Brett Kavanaugh, Samuel Alito and Neil Gorsuch would have granted Trump’s application for a postponement of sentencing, the majority wrote.
………..
Rip Murdock (9bda50) — 1/9/2025 @ 4:41 pm
A federal appeals court has denied President-Elect Trump’s attempt to block the release of the Special Counsel’s report by the DOJ.

…………
A separate portion of the document – detailing Smith’s investigation into Trump’s alleged mishandling of classified documents – appears likely to remain under wraps for now.

The ruling, issued by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit in Atlanta, came in response to a flurry of emergency filings in which the president-elect and two of his former co-defendants in the documents case urged courts to block the release of any part of the report.

While the decision could still be appealed, the ruling set the stage for a possible release of a thorough public accounting of Smith’s election interference case against Trump days before he is again sworn in as president. It may not happen immediately, however. A lower court judge has barred the release of the report until at least three days after the 11th Circuit decision.
…………..
Rip Murdock (9bda50) — 1/9/2025 @ 5:26 pm

1/3/2025

Weekend Open Thread

249 Responses to “Weekend Open Thread”

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