Patterico's Pontifications

12/1/2024

Garbage People Doing Garbage Things

Filed under: General — JVW @ 9:18 pm



[guest post by JVW]

Here is the least surprising development in the post-election era:

President Biden pardoned his son, Hunter Biden, after the first son was convicted in two separate federal cases earlier this year.

The announcement was made by the White House on Sunday night. The pardon applies to offenses against the U.S. that Hunter Biden “has committed or may have committed” from Jan. 1, 2014 to Dec. 1, 2024.

“Today, I signed a pardon for my son Hunter,” Biden wrote in a statement. “From the day I took office, I said I would not interfere with the Justice Department’s decision-making, and I kept my word even as I have watched my son being selectively, and unfairly, prosecuted.”

The president went on to claim that his son was “treated differently” by prosecutors.

“Without aggravating factors like use in a crime, multiple purchases, or buying a weapon as a straw purchaser, people are almost never brought to trial on felony charges solely for how they filled out a gun form,” Biden added. “Those who were late paying their taxes because of serious addictions, but paid them back subsequently with interest and penalties, are typically given non-criminal resolutions. It is clear that Hunter was treated differently.”

Democrats like Biden, of course, are famous for continually preaching that we need more laws which prevent reprobates from owning and using guns. But in the end, it’s never in doubt that Democrats have a predilection for refusing to actually hold miscreants like Hunter Biden accountable for their irresponsibility with firearms, no matter how much they demagogue the allegedly lax gun laws which they insist lead to an epidemic of shootings. But even beyond that problem, we’re still left with the empty promises of President Joe Biden that he would not extend preferential treatment to his crackhead n’er-do-well son, an obnoxious whelp who spent his entire life trading in on his father’s position for his own ill-gotten gains. We all knew from the onset that it was a lie — that no matter what happened on November 5 there would be a pardon for Biden fils, it was just a matter of whether it would come over the Thanksgiving or Christmas holiday break. Today, the demented President announced the decision that others had no doubt made on his behalf, and forever consigned himself to the pantheon of dishonorable frauds who have so cheapened the standards for our nation’s leaders.

Of course the Trump family is awful and crooked, that’s a given. But let’s never overlook the fact that Joe Biden leaves office as one of the singularly most wretchedly dishonest men to have ever profaned the office once held by George Washington. After the debacle of November 5 it was pretty clear that the Biden Administration would likely disgrace themselves on the way out the door, and apart from the usual petty score-settling we now see fully what corrupt and disgusting people have led us for the past 46 months. Good riddance to poor trash, as Johnny Rotten (who is now apparently a Trumper, God help us) would say.

– JVW

196 Responses to “Garbage People Doing Garbage Things”

  1. FJB, I guess is what I am trying to say here.

    JVW (6965e6)

  2. If there is anyone here who wants to argue that had not Donald Trump — he of the felony convictions for which he will never be held accountable — been elected four weeks ago then Joe Biden would have gladly let Hunter suffer through the vagaries of the federal criminal system then my response is going to be simple and final: no, the pardon would have come no matter how this year’s election would have turned out. Don’t waste my time suggesting otherwise.

    JVW (6965e6)

  3. Biden and the other corporate establishment democrats do as I say not as I do preaching has finally been repudiated by the voters. Their hypocrisy at behest of the donor class and deep corporate state for $$$ has finally caught up with them.

    asset (b2ec60)

  4. So, is it OK for Hunter to have a gun now?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  5. 4: Kevin: A wealthy and renowned artist needs no piece.

    Harcourt Fenton Mudd (b88e9e)

  6. Never forget that the no matter how bad any other president was/is/will be, stupid Hitler has already been the worst, the most worst ever, so he says hold my well done steak with ketchup.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  7. @6 james buchanan would give trump a run for his money as the worst president.

    asset (b2ec60)

  8. Well said JVW. Bravo.

    Thabk you for a piece reminiscent of what brought me to this site in the first place.

    This is the kind of fisking the Dog Trainer used to receive.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  9. What a mess.

    Simon Jester (053718)

  10. Pardoning Hunter was always going to happen.

    Anyone who has argued that Biden is “letting Justice” take it’s course fooled themselves because it gave them “cover” in arguing that Jack Smith’s indictment against Trump were not lawfare.

    Here’s the vital piece of information that everyone here seems to be missing.

    This pardon covers that last 11 years, that not only covers Biden’s Presidency, but also his Vice-Presidency.

    If you go back 11 years to this date, a few days later Hunters is on Burisa’s board.

    The Pardon isn’t just about Hunter’s tax or gun charges. Not really.

    It’s really about covering Joe Biden and his family’s ass of their “pay-to-play” corruption schemes.

    Look for another pardon for Jim Biden too.

    Combine that with SCOTUS immunity ruling, prosecuting the Biden’s for corruption is dead.

    whembly (477db6)

  11. This is also justifies Trump pardoning the J6 folks too, because Joe Biden’s pardon of his son he brought up the “politization of the DOJ” as one of the justification.

    Good job Joe…

    whembly (477db6)

  12. The host of this site weighed in

    Biden’s pardon of Hunter was predictable. But it is bad. It is another wound to the rule of law.

    We should do away with pardons. They do more harm than good.

    I expect this opinion to be very, very unpopular here.

    So be it.

    A Constitutional amendment to remove pardons is as likely as removing the Electoral College, IMO. The next president should pledge to make pardons great again, and not engage in patronage pardons.

    Paul Montagu (f9a7fa)

  13. Pardons are the only way We The People can counter a third branch on a power trip.

    Voters knew Trump’s plans regarding the J6 defendants. They voted for it. I do not fear the judgment of the people, or wish to demote it below an entrenched partisan bureaucracy. The founders included pardon power for a very good reason.

    In contrast Hunter’s exploits were concealed by a corrupt media and FBI in 2020, knowing full well the potential impact on voters.

    lloyd (70008d)

  14. Combine that with SCOTUS immunity ruling, prosecuting the Biden’s for corruption is dead.

    whembly (477db6) — 12/2/2024 @ 6:26 am

    The Trump Administration can prosecute President Biden for actions that are not within his official duties. Presumably any crimes committed by President Biden as outlined in the House Oversight, Judiciary, and Ways and Means Committees impeachment report are outside of his official acts.

    Of course, if President Biden issues a self-pardon they would be precluded from any prosecution.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  15. https://jonathanturley.org/2024/12/02/liar-in-chief-president-biden-cloaks-his-legacy-in-infamy-with-the-hunter-biden-pardon/

    The pardon power was written in absolute terms, and a president can even, in my view, pardon himself. However, what is constitutional is not necessarily ethical or right. This is one of the most disgraceful pardons even in the checkered history of presidential pardons. President Biden has lied to cover up a corruption scandal that reportedly brought his family millions in raw influence peddling. His portrayal of his son as a victim stands in sharp contrast to the sense of immunity and power conveyed by Hunter in his dealings.

    There were diamonds as gifts, lavish expense accounts, and a sports car, in addition to massive payments that Hunter claimed were “loans.” There are messages where Hunter belies the President’s portrayal of a political witch hunt, including messages like the one to a Chinese businessman openly threatening the displeasure of Joe Biden if money is not sent to them immediately. In the WhatsApp message, Hunter stated:

    “I am sitting here with my father, and we would like to understand why the commitment made has not been fulfilled. Tell the director that I would like to resolve this now before it gets out of hand, and now means tonight. And, Z, if I get a call or text from anyone involved in this other than you, Zhang, or the Chairman, I will make certain that between the man sitting next to me and every person he knows and my ability to forever hold a grudge that you will regret not following my direction. I am sitting here waiting for the call with my father.”

    The President has now pardoned Hunter for his convicted felonies and any crimes he may have committed from “Jan. 1, 2014, to Dec. 1, 2024.”

    It is all now being buried under a sweeping immunity deal and a pack of presidential lies.

    Prof Turley nails it as usual.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  16. Hunter
    Here’s the reality.

    No USAtty would have charged this case given the underlying facts. After a 5 year investigation the facts as discovered only made that clear.

    Had his name been Joe Smith the resolution would have been – fundamentally and more fairly – a…

    — Eric Holder (@EricHolder) December 2, 2024

    Obama’s wingman. Oh yeah, he was also his Attorney General.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  17. The announcement was made by the White House on Sunday night.

    After excerpts of a letter from his attorneys calling for a pardon (on the grounds that the Trump justice department would persecute him) was published Saturday in the Washington Post.

    https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/miranda-devine-we-always-knew-biden-would-pardon-hunter-fitting-president-would-break-another-promise

    Hours after Joe and Hunter dined at a Nantucket restaurant named, appropriately enough, the Brotherhood of Thieves, the Washington Post published excerpts Saturday from a document written by the first son’s lawyers that made the emotional case for his pardon

    Since his father was the only person on the planet with the power to pardon Hunter, at least until his presidency ends on Jan. 20, the 52-page paper would seem to have been written for an audience of one — the Oval Office guy vacationing with his family on Nantucket.

    But why would Hunter and his lawyers feel the need to leak the heartstrings-tugging document when he was right there with his dad every day, hanging out in the borrowed mansion of private equity billionaire David Rubenstein, poking around in bookstores buying anti-Israeli books and watching the town Christmas tree lighting?

    Clearly, the document was a carefully crafted excuse created to help Joe fool the American people into believing that Hunter was a victim of political persecution, who suffered due to his father’s power and influence.

    If you read the excerpts of his lawyers’ mournful missive, titled “The political prosecutions of Hunter Biden,” you would see echoes in Joe’s Sunday night statement. You would see that they hold grave fears for Hunter’s future now that the dreaded Donald Trump is taking power.

    “With the election now decided, the threat against Hunter is real,” the lawyers wrote.

    “There is no disputing that Trump has said his enemies list includes Hunter … The prospect that Trump will turn his vengeance on the Special Counsel prosecutors if they fail to take a harder line against Hunter no doubt exerts considerable pressure on them.”

    Hunter’s pricey lead lawyer, Abbe Lowell, described the opus in dramatic terms as “the complete and reprehensible history of the political persecution of Hunter Biden … a seven-year saga propelled by an unrelenting political desire to use a son to hurt his father.”

    It is “a wild and terrifying story … a stark warning of what is to come as some of the same Republicans who targeted Hunter prepare to resume power and have stated their intention to use the government’s vast power to pursue their perceived enemies.”

    I suppose this leaves Joe Biden with the out that his son’s lawyers convinced him – if he feels it necessary to offer a defense.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  18. ——————-
    Note: About buying anti-Israeli books: Joe Biden was photographed carrying in his hand a book by Rashid Khalidi.

    https://nypost.com/2024/11/29/us-news/biden-picks-up-anti-israel-book-during-black-friday-shopping-4-years-too-late-says-author

    Biden, 82, left Nantucket Bookworks holding in full view of the press a copy of “The Hundred Years’ War on Palestine: A History of Settler Colonial Conquest and Resistance, 1917-2017” by Columbia University professor emeritus Rashid Khalidi.

    The book argues that “the modern history of Palestine can best be understood in these terms: as a colonial war waged against the indigenous population, by a variety of parties, to force them to relinquish their homeland to another people against their will.”

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  19. No USAtty would have charged this case given the underlying facts.

    The gun case, standing alone. But it was part of plea bargain. which Hunter’s lawyers attempted to use too immunize him against all other federal charges. There was enormous tax evasion. (and they didn’t go into the legality of the activity)

    Of course, he was a drug and a sex addict, and spent a lot on travel.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  20. This is a despicable pardon, especially since Biden said he would not pardon his son earlier this year. What an ignominious end to a halfwit presidency.

    norcal (dc4087)

  21. I’m no fan of Biden and mostly agree with JVW but can’t get very angry about all this. It’s hard to get too upset at a man who pardons his own son. Plus, after the last 4 (or 8, or 12, or however many anyone wants to pick) years of upheaval my capacity for indignation and outrage is close to exhaustion, better to save what’s left for more important things.

    RL formerly in Glendale (7a2d64)

  22. Point taken, RL, but in that case, Biden shouldn’t have said he would not pardon Hunter. I just can’t accept an in-your-face lie like that.

    norcal (dc4087)

  23. What is better?

    To be born good?

    Or to be redeemed by overcoming your evil nature through a blanket pardon for all of the egregious and obvious and well documented crimes, and all other crimes you committed?

    I for one celebrate Joe Biden for being consistent. He is the same twerp from the 1980s presidential campaign, having a ridiculous outburst that shows us he simply thinks he is better than the rest of us.

    As for the rocket scientists and nuclear astrophysicists explaining that gee whiz, dads just can’t help themselves but tarnish the social contract if it entitles their crackhead sons: good point. That is totally what good fatherhood is all about.

    Dustin (b377bf)

  24. “Are people born wicked, or is wickedness thrust upon them?”

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  25. What an ignominious end to a halfwit presidency.

    He still has 50 days to go.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  26. Joe Biden was photographed carrying in his hand a book by Rashid Khalidi.

    No doubt recommended by Barack Obama, who’s always been a fan.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  27. @19:

    There is also the question of being an unregistered foreign agent. Now moot.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  28. Speaking of trash ex-convict dinesh d’souza now admits his claims in 2000 mules were false ;but will still pocket the money off of it.

    asset (1031fb)

  29. @21&22 The lie not the pardon is the problem. Whopi goldberg on the view said don’t call it a lie! Why? “You can’t handle the truth!” A few good men.

    asset (1031fb)

  30. It’s hard to get too upset at a man who pardons his own son.

    Spare me the “devoted family man” garbage.

    This is still the same “compassionate patriarch” who still refuses to meet with his own granddaughter.

    SaveFarris (8940bf)

  31. On the one side

    “For my entire career I have followed a simple principle: just tell the American people the truth,” the president said toward the end of his statement announcing the pardon. But he didn’t tell us the truth in this matter. He lied, brazenly and repeatedly.

    “He’s always been a liar,” you might say, fairly enough. But when he and his staff promised reporters, over and over (as recently as last month!), that he wouldn’t pardon Hunter Biden for federal gun and tax crimes, the president was telling a lie that carried unusual civic weight. By ruling out clemency for his son, he was vouching for the integrity of the Justice Department. So great was his faith in the justness of American law enforcement amid the right’s populist onslaught, it seemed, that he would decline to overrule its treatment of his own child.

    “Our justice system has endured for nearly 250 years, and it literally is the cornerstone of America,” Biden said in May of this year of Trump’s conviction in the Stormy Daniels matter. He trusted America’s institutions and wanted you to do so too.

    Six months later, he hasn’t just overruled that same justice system; in doing so, he made clear that he, er, doesn’t trust it. “No reasonable person who looks at the facts of Hunter’s cases can reach any other conclusion than Hunter was singled out only because he is my son—and that is wrong,” Biden said in his statement. “There has been an effort to break Hunter—who has been five and a half years sober, even in the face of unrelenting attacks and selective prosecution. In trying to break Hunter, they’ve tried to break me—and there’s no reason to believe it will stop here.”

    The vague, pregnant reference there to “they” has a Trumpian demagogic stench about it. Biden implies elsewhere in his statement that he’s referring to his “political opponents in Congress” who spent years investigating Hunter, but it wasn’t House Republicans who indicted and successfully prosecuted his son. It was his own Justice Department.

    And so Joe Biden, alleged institutionalist, will leave office affirming MAGA suspicions that federal law enforcement has political motives and can’t be trusted to behave evenhandedly. When he says at one point, “I believe in the justice system, but as I have wrestled with this, I also believe raw politics has infected this process and it led to a miscarriage of justice,” he sounds like a Republican hack on a CNN panel grousing about the charges that Jack Smith brought against Trump. You wanted a more populist Democratic Party? Congratulations—you’ve got it.

    …and on the other…

    And that—voters’ indifference to liberalism—is the optimistic read. The pessimistic one is that they’ve come to actively prefer postliberals. Lost in the coverage of his coup attempt in late 2020 and early 2021 was the fact that Trump at the time issued some of the swampiest, most corrupt pardons the country has ever seen. Despite that, despite the coup plot, despite felony convictions and dozens of outstanding felony charges, voters didn’t just hand him the presidency last month—they handed him a plurality of the popular vote.

    He’s a “fighter.” He doesn’t let little things like norms stop him. That’s who most Americans want now.

    “A country that reelects Trump (and Kash Patel/Pam Bondi) is not worthy of Biden sacrificing his son to a sense of justice the country doesn’t actually believe in,” comedian J-L Cauvin said in defending Hunter Biden’s pardon. Others have made the same point in stronger language. It’s fair to call Joe Biden a liar, a hypocrite, and a fair-weather institutionalist for granting clemency in this case, but if you’re knocking him for undermining liberal norms, I regret to inform you that those norms were laid to rest on November 5. There’s no public civic consciousness left to rouse.
    […]
    Trump’s not-so-secret weapon has always been the spectacular volume and diversity of norm-breaking in which he and his henchmen engage. There’s forever some outlandish tweet being crowded out of the news cycle by a petty scandal, which is itself being crowded out by reports of infighting within his team, which is in turn being crowded out by a hair-raising legal maneuver or power grab or constitutional crisis he’s contemplating. Americans have grown desensitized to all of it. There’s no more marginal outrage to be felt in each new excess.

    As a case in point, on Saturday Trump named Charles Kushner as his next ambassador to France. That’s a triple whammy of norm-busting in one swoop: Kushner is a nepotist (he’s Jared Kushner’s father), was pardoned by Trump in his first term for various federal crimes, and has no apparent qualifications for a diplomatic post with a major ally. But his nomination isn’t even close to being the sleaziest Trump made this past weekend. Kushner wasn’t even the only in-law given a job, in fact. Americans will barely notice his appointment amid the daily Trump din.

    But when Joe Biden, establishment dinosaur and head of the “norms” party, turns around and hands a pardon to his crooked son, that feels like a real scandal. Americans aren’t desensitized to the president’s corruption; look no further than bad-faith Trump apologists like Scott Jennings, who had the nerve to sanctimoniously call for resignations over an act of executive sleaze. Biden’s legacy, and possibly his already low approval rating, will take a serious hit from this.

    All of which explains why it’s actually silly to worry about Hunter’s pardon providing political “cover” for Trump’s forthcoming corrupt grants of clemency. No matter what Joe Biden did or didn’t do, Trump was always going to behave corruptly in abusing his pardon power and Americans were always going to not care. They know what they got when they brought the Trump circus back to town. When he frees hundreds of January 6 rioters next month, I’ll be surprised if his job approval drops so much as a point, if it drops at all.

    Paul Montagu (f9a7fa)

  32. Paul’s on a “whatabout Trump” bender.

    lloyd (7e8f35)

  33. @31 “Americans were always going to not care. They know what they got when they brought the Trump circus back to town.”

    Well that is the difference, isn’t it. The voters knew what they were voting for with Trump. The whole Hunter business was intentionally concealed from them when they voted Biden in.

    lloyd (7e8f35)

  34. Paul’s on a “whatabout Trump” bender.

    Nah, just a hypocrisy and bogus equivalency check. Those with eyes to see…

    Paul Montagu (f9a7fa)

  35. Trump at the time issued some of the swampiest, most corrupt pardons the country has ever seen.

    Then Joe Biden said “Hold Hunter’s Beer…”

    SaveFarris (8940bf)

  36. And now Biden is in Angola talking about the slave trade.

    What exquisite timing. Let’s all forget about Hunter. After all, he’s talking about slavery here. Slavery! Whatever Hunter did pales in comparison to this historical outrage!

    norcal (8e4e97)

  37. Paul,

    Do you believe that most voters (i.e. the middle 60%) wanted Trump, or just didn’t want what they were getting from Biden-Harris?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  38. lloyd,

    Do you believe that most voters (i.e. the middle 60%) wanted Trump, or just didn’t want what they were getting from Biden-Harris?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  39. It doesn’t matter if voters were voting for Trump or against Harris. The consequences will be the same.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  40. Do you believe that most voters (i.e. the middle 60%) wanted Trump, or just didn’t want what they were getting from Biden-Harris?

    Trump still didn’t get a majority, and I think a huge part of his victory stems from a doddering senescent Biden who didn’t have the good sense to not run for reelection. I think the Dems were fooling themselves, thinking that Kamala was a good candidate, and that the manner of her being awarded the nomination was okay. But bottom line, it comes down more to Biden for putting Kamala in that spot.

    Paul Montagu (f9a7fa)

  41. Trump still didn’t get a majority

    Trump got a higher percentage than Bill Clinton ever did, more than W did the first time and about what Jimmy Carter got in 1976. To put a finer point on it, no President since Nixon has received the percentage of the vote that Nixon got in 1972.

    EVERY EFFING YEAR, the losing side drags out this hoary “didn’t get a majority” or worse “most people didn’t even vote so the election isn’t legitimate” crap.

    The popular vote is immaterial — no one campaigns for that directly. It’s the electoral count that matters, and Trump got more of that than the winner in the previous two elections.

    Lastly, there is some dispute about the popular vote total (a cautionary tale for the NPV folks): If you take the state-level reports, Trump got 50.18% of the vote. If you take county-level reports, Trump only got 49.77%. Part of this discrepancy is how nuisance candidates and write-ins are counted.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  42. But that wasn’t the question I asked. Do you think that they were voting for Trump or against Harris (/Biden). IF you think they were rejecting the Democrats, do you actually think it was because Biden was senescent, or is that just the excuse used to paper over the fact that the Direction of the Country numbers were so terrible for Biden?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  43. To be fair, the last time the Direction of the Country average was non-negative was June-July 2009.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  44. Noted, Kevin, you already had your own pre-canned answer, so what was the point of asking both lloyd and me?

    Two, I don’t need you lecturing me about the Electoral College. The point is that it was a close election, and Trump still couldn’t get a majority. Kamala wins if she wins PA, WI and MI, and she failed miserably.

    Three, I don’t know what you’re talking about when you said “most people didn’t even vote so the election isn’t legitimate”. I’m in favor of the Electoral College. Trump won a constitutional majority. I accepted his victory before Election Day was over.

    Four, my point stands about Biden.

    Paul Montagu (f9a7fa)

  45. Lastly, there is some dispute about the popular vote total (a cautionary tale for the NPV folks)….

    That’s because not all states have certified their vote totals; the certification deadlines for nine states occur between December 4th and December 7th (the deadline to certify the vote in California is last on the 7th).

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  46. But that wasn’t the question I asked. Do you think that they were voting for Trump or against Harris (/Biden). ……..

    As you said, the popular vote is immaterial, as are voters’ reasons for voting for Trump or against Harris. The results though clearly showed that Trump won on the issues, such as immigration and the economy, which accounts for his complete breaching of the Democrats “blue wall”. Given the number of states that he won, it is an endorsement from all regions of the country (except the Left Coast) to see his deportation and tariff policies implemented.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  47. And let’s clear about your lie, lloyd.
    You linked to this Guardian article, which was about Lincoln Project members posing as white supremacists at Virginia GOP event, and then stated that lurker, nk, Klink and myself are on board with those dirty tricks. You have no factual basis for that. You made sh-t up. You lied, every bit as dishonest and full sh-t as what Kevin and Rob did in that thread.

    Paul Montagu (f9a7fa)

  48. That’s because not all states have certified their vote totals; the certification deadlines for nine states occur between December 4th and December 7th (the deadline to certify the vote in California is last on the 7th).

    Mostly, I was pointing out the hilarity that would ensue if the NPV went into effect, with everyone (in a 1960-type close election) holding their breath for California’s total.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  49. Given the number of states that he won, it is an endorsement from all regions of the country (except the Left Coast) to see his deportation and tariff policies implemented.

    Until, of course they go wrong, or people find themselves disadvantaged by them. It will be interesting to see what happens when they tax produce from Mexico and find that CA has driven all the farmers off the land by withholding water.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  50. Looks like one nominee who likes underage girls will be replaced with another one. See picture of ron desatan partying at drinking orgy with his underage girl students when he was their high school teacher. (CBS NEWS, NY post, CNN and others)

    asset (3b896a)

  51. Speaking of the title to this post, Russia Today is saying, “Yah garbage!”

    Meanwhile in Russia: state TV host Vladimir Solovyov and head of RT Margarita Simonyan rejoiced over Trump’s picks. They were especially thrilled about Kash Patel and Pete Hegseth, predicting, “They will quickly dismantle America, brick by brick.”

    Paul Montagu (f9a7fa)

  52. DeSantis as DoD secretary would be top-notch.

    If you want someone to ‘put points on the board for your team’…DeSantis would be the superstar on that team.

    whembly (477db6)

  53. Paul Montagu (f9a7fa) — 12/3/2024 @ 8:53 pm

    Paul, it’s really too bad that you, The Lincoln Project, Klink, nk and lurker all had the same bright idea of smearing the other side as fascists, Nazis, etc.

    It’s asking a lot of anyone to know for sure who came up with it first. Go cry about it.

    lloyd (d78e0a)

  54. @51 Thank you Paul for keeping us abreast of Russian media’s take on everything.

    lloyd (d78e0a)

  55. #52

    I agree that DeSantis is a good pick (if that’s what happens). Can team MAGA handle administrative competence. Will there be a battle between DoD and DOGE?

    Appalled (d54f7e)

  56. Paul Montagu (f9a7fa) — 12/3/2024 @ 4:04 pm

    Trump still didn’t get a majority,

    Last I heard (about a week ago) his share of the vote was being estimated at 49.997%.

    I think the Dems were fooling themselves, thinking that Kamala was a good candidate, and that the manner of her being awarded the nomination was okay. But bottom line, it comes down more to Biden for putting Kamala in that spot.

    I think those people who say that a primary process would have produced a better candidate are fooling themselves also. That’s not at all clear and a quite questionable proposition.

    Yes, it was Biden’s fault for naming her vice president in 2020,

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  57. California reports the vote late because votes on Election Day trump absentee ballots so all Election Day votes need to be counted, and the voters struck off the list of eligible voters for that election before any absentee ballots are examined, They must make sure that the voter in question did not vote on Election Day, It used to be that way in New York too, but the percentage of mailed ballots used to be small.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  58. Sammy,

    there is no excuse for it taking a month. It’s clear it’s about finding the necessary votes for their socialist utopia.

    NJRob (8817ab)

  59. Given the number of states that he won, it is an endorsement from all regions of the country (except the Left Coast) to see his deportation and tariff policies implemented.

    Until, of course they go wrong, or people find themselves disadvantaged by them. It will be interesting to see what happens when they tax produce from Mexico and find that CA has driven all the farmers off the land by withholding water.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 12/3/2024 @ 10:29 pm

    The fact that Trump’s voters may be disadvantaged by his policies is something they should have considered before voting.

    As to the second point, large corporate farms will remain (and probably grow larger) as small family farms disappear. Family farms have declined every year since 1997 (the peak year), mostly due to the high cost of operating a farm and the aging out of farmers. This is a national trend, not just California.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  60. With Gaetz gone and Hegseth on the way out, when will Trump stand firm and defend his nominees? Hegseth, like all nominees, deserves to have a hearing on his nomination.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  61. #60 — In fairness, Hegseth did not share his problems with Trump’s transition team. If the goal is a smooth transition, it’s best not to support someone who does not have the support in the Senate. DeSantis is a good enough pick that I am surprised he didn’t go down that road earlier. (Anti-woke — check. Willingness to play rough with contractors and big business — check. Good at getting stuff done in a bureaucracy — check)

    Hegseth, on the other hand, may be anti-woke, but he’s also roofie, rapie type. He is also proved horrible at running bureacracies. His sole appeal is that his tats own the libs.

    Now on to JFK, Jr, who will get people killed if confirmed. Just ask the Samoans.

    Appalled (721968)

  62. California reports the vote late…..

    Per state law, California has until December 7th to certify its election results. As I pointed out above, nine states have certification deadlines between today and December 7th.

    The number of self-identified Republican voters barely exceeds those of No Party Preference (24.9% v. 22.0%, or 652,143 voters) while the number of Democrats is nearly half of all registered voters (45.8%).

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  63. In fairness, Hegseth did not share his problems with Trump’s transition team. If the goal is a smooth transition, it’s best not to support someone who does not have the support in the Senate. DeSantis is a good enough pick that I am surprised he didn’t go down that road earlier. (Anti-woke — check. Willingness to play rough with contractors and big business — check. Good at getting stuff done in a bureaucracy — check)

    Ran against Trump-uncheck

    Also, JFK Jr. is dead.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  64. RFK Jr — Insane, alive. Shouldn’t be confirmed.
    JFK Jr — Bad pilot, dead. RIP

    DeSantis has kissed the ring and can be confirmed. He can also appoint Lara Trump to the senate.

    Check that box again.

    Appalled (721968)

  65. Paul, it’s really too bad that you, The Lincoln Project, Klink, nk and lurker all had the same bright idea of smearing the other side as fascists, Nazis, etc.

    You’re still lying about the smearing, lloyd. The smearer is you. You’ll never find me supporting Lincoln Project dudes passing themselves off as Nazis at a Trump rally, or the like and you’re lying for making such an assertion.
    I’ve made my case about Trump’s fascism, using his own words and actions. I regret your poor comprehension of the concept.

    Paul Montagu (f9a7fa)

  66. (DeSantis) can also appoint Lara Trump to the senate.

    He could do that as soon as Rubio resigns, with or without being named SecDef.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  67. Just say no:

    ………
    ………(A)dvocates for clemency for Edward Snowden, including several of Trump’s picks for top Cabinet posts, are hopeful that Trump is now closer to pardoning the former spy, who has been living in Moscow for more than a decade to avoid a 2013 Justice Department indictment.
    ………
    Trump’s Health and Human Services secretary pick, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., campaigned for president on the promise of a “day one” pardon of Snowden and building a Washington monument in his honor. Director of National Intelligence pick Tulsi Gabbard sponsored a 2020 House resolution with Matt Gaetz calling for the government to drop charges against Snowden.

    Even Donald Trump Jr., the president’s son, has recently advocated for clemency for Snowden and other whistleblowers and leakers from the national security apparatus, including Jack Teixeira, a former Air National Guard member who was sentenced last month to 15 years in prison for releasing top-secret information including details of U.S. military assistance for Ukraine.

    “My views have changed. I think 100 percent you have to let them go,” the younger Trump said in May during a podcast appearance. “You need those kind of things to keep us in check. It would be different if I thought we were functioning as good actors, but we’re not.”
    ………..
    A 2016 report from the House Intelligence Committee concluded that Snowden caused “tremendous damage to national security,” though the details of the damage was redacted from the unclassified version of the report.

    “The full scope of the damage inflicted by Snowden remains unknown,” the report said. “Nevertheless, even by a conservative estimate, the U.S. Government has spent hundreds of millions of dollars, and will eventually spend billions, to attempt to mitigate the damage Snowden caused.”

    The report described continued uncertainty over exactly what Snowden shared from two classified networks where he collected documents for release. The House committee found he removed more than 1.5 million classified documents, enough to stack “more than three miles high” if printed out.
    ……….
    Continued calls for Snowden’s pardon reflect “a lack of understanding of who we are and it reflects a lack of respect for what we do,” Sue Gordon, the former principal deputy director of national intelligence during Trump’s first term, said last month on CBS News’ Face the Nation.

    “He harmed America. He not only harmed intelligence, he harmed our allies and partners and he harmed our businesses,” she added. “ … There is nothing justifiable about what he has done.”
    ………..
    Glenn Greenwald, Matt Gaetz and U.S. Sen. Rand Paul (R-Kentucky) pushed Trump at the end of his first term in office to grant Snowden a pardon, a path the president-elect said he considered.
    ………..
    After Trump declined to offer a pardon to Snowden in 2021, Snowden lashed out on the social network then known as Twitter.

    “I am not at all disappointed to go unpardoned by a man who has never known a love he had not paid for,” Snowden wrote in a post about Trump that has since been deleted. “But what supporters of his remain must never forgive that this simpering creature failed to pardon truth-tellers in far more desperate circumstances.”
    …………..

    Another garbage person.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  68. #66 — But if he is put up for Sec Def, he’ll likely do it. If he isn’t, he’ll name someone else for Senate.

    Appalled (721968)

  69. Speaking of garbage hiring garbage…

    Paul Montagu (f9a7fa)

  70. The fact that Trump’s voters may be disadvantaged by his policies is something they should have considered before voting.

    Yes, and I’m sure they will consider that before they get angry.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  71. The number of self-identified Republican voters barely exceeds those of No Party Preference (24.9% v. 22.0%, or 652,143 voters) while the number of Democrats is nearly half of all registered voters (45.8%).

    And yet rent control keeps failing.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  72. The fact that Trump’s voters may be disadvantaged by his policies is something they should have considered before voting.

    Yes, because “what’s in it for me” is from the Nevertrump school of voting. /s

    lloyd (fded49)

  73. Rep. McGovern asked “are they going to replace FBI background checks with a Fox News screen test?” but I think the replacement has already happened, given all the picks Trump has made from the FoxNews stable.

    The latest is Monica Crowley, for a State Department post titled “Ambassador, Assistant Secretary of State, and Chief of Protocol”, which is a ceremonial PR slot. Trump could do worse. The next question is whether there was an FBI background check, or whether he took her word.

    Paul Montagu (f9a7fa)

  74. Hunter did ask for the case against himself to be dismissed. David Weiss fled papers saying that says that a pardon does not undo conviction

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  75. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/4/2024 @ 9:44 am

    when will Trump stand firm and defend his nominees?

    When he has a chance of winning the vote.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  76. Actually, Trump does not defend his nominees at all past the initial announcement.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  77. He doesn’t prematurely pull the rug out from under them either. He lets them defend themselves, with help.

    His DEA nominee also withdrew (who evidently was recommended by Pam Bondi)

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  78. The fact that Trump’s voters may be disadvantaged by his policies is something they should have considered before voting.

    Yes, and I’m sure they will consider that before they get angry.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 12/4/2024 @ 11:57 am

    The person Trump’s voters should be angry with will be themselves. There’s no one else to blame.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  79. The number of self-identified Republican voters barely exceeds those of No Party Preference (24.9% v. 22.0%, or 652,143 voters) while the number of Democrats is nearly half of all registered voters (45.8%).

    And yet rent control keeps failing.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 12/4/2024 @ 11:59 am

    Which shows even Democrats think it’s a bad idea. So much for a socialist paradise.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  80. It’s not a good sign that an alpha male like Hegseth is having his mom do his work for him at the Senate. I don’t see this ending well for the nominee.

    Paul Montagu (f9a7fa)

  81. He (Trump) doesn’t prematurely pull the rug out from under them (his nominees) either.

    LOL!

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  82. Famous last words: “I won’t back down.”

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  83. @58 republican observers in ca. watch vote count and cure their own voters.

    asset (d642cf)

  84. @81

    It’s not a good sign that an alpha male like Hegseth is having his mom do his work for him at the Senate. I don’t see this ending well for the nominee.

    Paul Montagu (f9a7fa) — 12/4/2024 @ 1:37 pm

    Really Paul?

    I found that endearing.

    whembly (477db6)

  85. United health C.E.O. killed in NY today. Their will be a very long lists of suspects from family members who’s loved ones died when their treatments were denied to raise stock price and profits.

    asset (d642cf)

  86. Supposedly CEO was under investigation by DOJ. Dead men tell no tales?

    asset (d642cf)

  87. It’s not a good sign that an alpha male like Hegseth is having his mom do his work for him at the Senate. I don’t see this ending well for the nominee.

    Paul Montagu (f9a7fa) — 12/4/2024 @ 1:37 pm

    Really Paul?

    I found that endearing.

    whembly (477db6) — 12/4/2024 @ 2:17 pm

    It’s what she is being forced to defend against that is hardly endearing-her email essentially confirmed her son’s womanizing and infidelity (and fathering two children with two different women while he was married) and drinking behavior. Parents are unreliable witnesses; like President Biden and his sons, she sees Pete’s life through rose-colored glasses.

    I see the Hegseth nomination more like that of former Sen. John Tower for the same job in 1989, when he was accused of basically the same behavior. And with the leaks about alternative candidates like Ron DeSantis, Elbridge A. Colby (who is far more qualified than Hegseth or DeSantis), or Sen. Joni Ernst, etc. replacing Hegseth, the signs are all there that Hegseth will probably drop out before Christmas.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  88. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/4/2024 @ 3:00 pm

    Others who could replace Pete Hegseth:

    Sen. Bill Hagerty
    Rep. Mike Waltz
    Rep. Wesley Hunt

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  89. Michael Warren on Biden & Son…

    Nearly four years later, Biden’s single term is limping to an end, with the president—dogged by concerns about his age and mental acuity that eventually forced him to end his reelection bid—more unpopular than he’s ever been, increasingly out of view, and widely considered the primary culprit in Democrats’ post-election autopsies. His recent decision to issue a sweeping pardon to his son Hunter—after repeatedly pledging not to do so—led several prominent Democrats and media allies to accuse him of selfishness and putting “personal interest ahead of duty” in a way that will “tarnish his reputation.”

    There are plenty of specific examples of Biden’s failures, to be sure. Persistent inflation made worse by excessive federal spending that even some Democratic economists warned would overheat the economy. The disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan, pushed through despite the admonitions from top military leaders. A lack of urgency about illegal immigration. His disinterest in even trying to unify a divided country. His decision—after implying in 2020 he’d be a “bridge” candidate—to launch a quixotic reelection bid when his advanced age and mental decline were all too apparent in private and in public.

    But even setting all that aside, Biden’s presidency has been an unmitigated disaster on its own terms: His entire raison d’être was to keep Trump—and Trumpism—from returning to the Oval Office. “If Trump wasn’t running, I’m not sure I’d be running,” the president told donors a year ago this week. “We cannot let him win.”

    Twelve months and one belated switcheroo atop the ticket later, Democrats are staring at four more years of Trump and a generation of Republican politics shaped in his image—a reality that nominating and electing Biden in 2020 was supposed to prevent. Instead, so much of what they feared would happen had Trump won a second term in 2020 threatens to come to pass: A GOP president with authoritarian instincts, more knowledgeable in the position and unconstrained by a quest for reelection, moving forward with alacrity on a conservative populist agenda without regard for the norms and strictures of constitutional governance.

    Paul Montagu (f9a7fa)

  90. Hegseth Vows to Abstain from Alcohol if Confirmed

    Despite all we can say, many who are real alcoholics are not going to believe they are in that class. By every form of self-deception and experimentation, they will try to prove themselves exceptions to the rule, therefore nonalcoholic. If anyone who is showing inability to control his drinking can do the right-about-face and drink like a gentleman, our hats are off to him. Heaven knows, we have tried hard enough and long enough to drink like other people!

    Here are some of the methods we have tried: Drinking beer only, limiting the number of drinks, never drinking alone, never drinking in the morning, drinking only at home, never having it in the house, never drinking during business hours, drinking only at parties, switching from scotch to brandy, drinking only natural wines, agreeing to resign if ever drunk on the job, taking a trip, not taking a trip, swearing off forever (with and without a solemn oath), taking more physical exercise, reading inspirational books, going to health farms and sanitariums, accepting voluntary commitment to asylums—we could increase the list ad infinitum.

    –Alcoholics Anonymous, page 31

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  91. Biden will be remembered as a failure, but not a terrible one like, say, Buchanan or Hoover. Of course, there’s still six weeks to go …

    Sure, the nomenklatura will rate him is the top ranks, for a while, until it is impossible to maintain the fiction and he’ll be down in the lower quartile soon enough.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  92. Biden White House Is Discussing Preemptive Pardons for Those in Trump’s Crosshairs

    The White House officials, however, are carefully weighing the extraordinary step of handing out blanket pardons to those who’ve committed no crimes, both because it could suggest impropriety, only fueling Trump’s criticisms, and because those offered preemptive pardons may reject them.

    Even Trump did not do this in Jan 2020. It sure would take the wind out of “No man is above the law”

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  93. * Jan 2021

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  94. I suspect that issuing blanket pardons to his cronies will result in an amendment.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  95. Joe would be compounding his stupidity if he tries preemptive pardons.

    Paul Montagu (f9a7fa)

  96. At this point, what are the detractors of Biden doing whatever he wants within official acts?

    He’s 82 years old. He’s not going to move to any honorary position at any university or board of directors and he’s certainly not going to run for anything again. He’s not messing up anything for Hunter, who is also certainly not going to run for office or be appointed to any particularly respectable positions. The Dems aren’t in power anywhere in government for at least the next 2 years and 2 years is a long time in the voters’ memories, so it wouldn’t even hurt the party.

    He could issue a pardon for the official acts of every single person working for the federal government during his entire administration and it would make zero difference in his future, the future of his family, or the future of the Democratic party. He could do anything and everything that would normally carry solely a political price because there is no one available who would be expected to pay it at any point. Assuming physical capability, he and Jill could go over to the Smithsonian and have sex on the glass case containing the Declaration of Independence, have it filmed, and put it up on Only Fans for money and it would make no difference at all.

    Nic (120c94)

  97. Sotomayor and Jackson continue to disgrace themselves and the seats they hold. To think some voted to put more of them on the Court. It’s insane.

    NJRob (b88ed5)

  98. #99

    I’m just amazed a majority of people voted for Kash Patel as FBI Director and RFK, Jr as HHS director. It’s insane indeed.

    Appalled (721968)

  99. @88

    It’s what she is being forced to defend against that is hardly endearing.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/4/2024 @ 3:00 pm

    Imma stop you there.

    She’s not being forced to do this.

    When she sent that email, a few hours later she sent another email to APOLOGIZE to him.

    Going through a divorce is one of that sort-of relational “traumas”, and to me, it’s understandable.

    What’s endearing, is that his mom was willing to talk about ordeal publicly. Hegseth’s “dirty laundry” is being aired and this stuff isn’t really disqualifying, when divorce (and the reason for it) is common.

    I’d wager that other DOD and appointment posts had much more worrying personal foilables…and the pushback against Hegseth is being done in bad faith.

    whembly (477db6)

  100. @100

    #99

    I’m just amazed a majority of people voted for Kash Patel as FBI Director and RFK, Jr as HHS director. It’s insane indeed.

    Appalled (721968) — 12/5/2024 @ 5:58 am

    Kash Patel is fine…

    But, understand that RFK was always going to be in this administration when he threw his support behind Trump.

    whembly (477db6)

  101. But, understand that RFK was always going to be in this administration when he threw his support behind Trump.

    I’m OK with him as White House Physician.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  102. What I find amazing is the idea that Democrats fear unreasonable and vindictive prosecution from the guy who, along with a number of his appointees, was subjected to several prosecutions not all of which were reasonable and at least one with appeared vindictive.

    Blanket pardons might not affect Biden, who could do anything (including starting a war) and not have it affect anything but his “legacy.” But they would affect his party and they would greatly damage the Rule of Law.

    This is an example of projecting craziness on one’s opponent and using that craziness to justify your own.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  103. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/4/2024 @ 5:47 pm

    Since Hegseth has denied he has a drinking problem, yet tells a Senator that he would abstain from alcohol if confirmed as SecDef tells me that he does have a drinking problem, but doesn’t recognize it. Instead he blames the media.

    However, I believe he deserves a confirmation hearing, and the Senate Armed Services Committee needs to call all those that witnessed his drinking and alleged abuse of women. But as I said above, there are far more qualified persons for the job.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  104. It’s what (Hegseth’s mom) is being forced to defend against that is hardly endearing.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/4/2024 @ 3:00 pm

    Imma stop you there.

    She’s not being forced to do this.

    When she sent that email, a few hours later she sent another email to APOLOGIZE to him.

    Going through a divorce is one of that sort-of relational “traumas”, and to me, it’s understandable.

    What’s endearing, is that his mom was willing to talk about ordeal publicly. Hegseth’s “dirty laundry” is being aired and this stuff isn’t really disqualifying, when divorce (and the reason for it) is common.

    I’d wager that other DOD and appointment posts had much more worrying personal foilables…and the pushback against Hegseth is being done in bad faith.

    whembly (477db6) — 12/5/2024 @ 6:53 am

    I didn’t mean to imply someone was holding a gun to the head of Hegseth’s mom, but instead of saying what good boy scout he was she is having to defend his sordid behavior.

    Has her second email been released by anyone?

    I doubt any of other potential candidates have a sordid past-as elected officials (Ernst, DeSantis, etc.) or previously vetted appointees (Colby) such allegations would have been publicly known.

    They just weren’t Fox News hosts.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  105. whembly (477db6) — 12/5/2024 @ 6:57 am

    But, understand that RFK was always going to be in this administration when he threw his support behind Trump.

    What surprised me is that he was named ton a Cabinet position, I thought he was going to be appointed toa position (probably in the White House) that did not require Senate confirmation. But this way Trump cold avoid some responsibility for anything RFK Jr does,

    That is what Trump did, by the way, with Homan, but maybe that’s because Homan wanted to avoid some financial disclosure and wanted to be able to more easily avoid Congressional subpoenas, He was named czar which can mean everything and nothing,

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  106. tells a Senator that he would abstain from alcohol if confirmed as SecDef

    My response to that would be: “Pete, show us. Refrain from right not to the confirmation vote. We may ask you to pee in a cup.”

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  107. *now

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  108. You might expect from Joe Biden also a pardon for his brother Jim mixed in with a lot of other pardons.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  109. Fir alcohol they take a blood test or a breathalyzer

    Negotiations with Senator John Tower in 1989:.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/04/opinion/hegseth-alcohol-defense-tower.html

    [NYT reporters] Gerald Boyd and I went over to the White House one cold day in February 1989 to hear what the official had to say about John Tower, a Texas senator and the chair of the Armed Services Committee, so diminutive that he could barely peek over the top of some lecterns. Could the president justify putting a man in charge of the Pentagon who was prone to drunkenness and chasing secretaries around desks?

    What if, the official asked us in a wheedling tone, Tower gave up hard liquor and drank only white wine?

    Gerald and I just stared at the official. This guy was going to start bargaining with us over the type of alcohol that Tower could drink?

    What if, the official pressed on, Tower had only two glasses of wine a night?

    Gerald and I were nonplused to find ourselves the arbiters of louche behavior, pulled into a negotiating session over inebriants. What next? Tower would promise to chase only one secretary a week?

    What if, the official said, in a last desperate bid, Tower had only one glass of wine a night?

    White House officials kept trying to make a deal. They told Gerald that Tower had told the president and two key senators that he was sticking to two glasses of wine a day on the advice of doctors who had treated him for a malignant polyp in his colon. But doctors interviewed by Gerald said that this sort of advice for that sort of health problem was puzzling. The White House also volunteered that Tower’s medical reports showed no evidence of liver damage. What if, Bush officials asked, senators were allowed to choose a physician who would be permitted to interview Tower’s physicians?

    What are/were they doing negotiating with the New York Times? ANd reporters not even editorial writers?

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  110. For alcohol they take a blood test or a breathalyzer

    I want him to prove a month of abstinence for booze and other drugs (which he might use as a substitute). Cold sober, for a month, Pete. I have faith in you.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  111. Hell, a simpler test. One shot of booze at noon, then a blood test at midnight. An actual alcoholic will be utterly unable to leave it alone those 12 hours, once started.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  112. The White House officials, however, are carefully weighing the extraordinary step of handing out blanket pardons to those who’ve committed no crimes, both because it could suggest impropriety, only fueling Trump’s criticisms, and because those offered preemptive pardons may reject them.

    Even Trump did not do this in Jan 2020. It sure would take the wind out of “No man is above the law”

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 12/4/2024 @ 7:00 pm

    Presidents have made preemptive pardons throughout the country’s history:

    1794-President Washington to the Whiskey Rebellion rebels. Only a few treason trials had been held and two were convicted. Washington pardoned the convicted and those merely indicted.

    1865-President Andrew Johnson issued a general amnesty to Confederate soldiers (excluding the leadership).

    1974-President Ford’s to Richard Nixon. Ford also issued a conditional amnesty of Vietnam draft dodgers.

    1977-President Carter’s unconditional pardon of Vietnam War draft dodgers.

    1992-President George H.W. Bush to pardon of Casper Weinberger, who had been indicted but not yet gone to trial for the Iran-Contra Affair.

    2001-President Clinton to of Marc Rich, Roger Clinton and Susan MacDougal.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  113. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/5/2024 @ 10:37 am

    Corrections:

    Susan MacDougal was convicted and sent to prison; the list reflects only those that were preemptively pardoned before facing any charges or conviction.

    2017-President Trump to Maricopa Sherriff Joe Arpaio for his conviction on contempt of court and “any other offenses under Chapter 21 of Title 18, United States Code that might arise, or be charged, in connection with Melendres v. Arpaio.”

    2021-President Trump to Steve Bannon who had been indicted on fraud charges but not yet gone to trial.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  114. More preemptive pardons:

    2021-President Trump to

    Tommaso Buti, pardoned before trial
    Kenneth Kurson, pardoned before trial;
    Aviem Sella (the handler for the Israeli spy Jonathan Pollard), pardoned before trial;
    Casey Urlacher; pardoned before trial;
    Robert Zangrillo, pardoned before trial.

    There were also a large number of persons who were pardoned after conviction but before sentencing (e.g. Michael Flynn), or pardoned before they entered prison.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  115. Oh!
    https://justthenews.com/accountability/hldofficer-who-shot-j6-protestor-shown-favoritism-capitol-police-under-political


    House Democrats pressured U.S. Capitol Police to provide special financial assistance and even a promotion to the officer who fatally shot unarmed protester Ashli Babbitt during the Jan. 6 riot, resulting in tens of thousands of dollars in taxpayer and charitable assistance not provided to other officers

    whembly (477db6)

  116. Tulsi’s Putin-friendly comments reflect her reading habits as a “devout consumer” of Russia Today. Unfit, on her bad judgment alone.

    Paul Montagu (f9a7fa)

  117. All of the pardons Rip mentions (with the specific exception of Nixon) are for specified offenses. Nixon and Hunter weren’t just pre-emptive pardons for specified crimes, they were of the “from jaywalking to murder” variety.

    SaveFarris (8940bf)

  118. Speaking of the title to this post, Russia Today is saying, “Yah garbage!”
    Paul Montagu (f9a7fa) — 12/4/2024 @ 6:39 am

    Tulsi’s Putin-friendly comments reflect her reading habits as a “devout consumer” of Russia Today. Unfit, on her bad judgment alone.
    Paul Montagu (f9a7fa) — 12/5/2024 @ 11:54 am

    LMFAO

    lloyd (32e712)

  119. Just the News is Low Credibility.
    John Solomon is one of the goosiest of Trump’s goose-steppers, picked by Trump as his NARA liaison, until the FBI search ended his job, and he downplayed the death threats Byrd was receiving.

    His interview follows federal law enforcement’s ongoing attempt to limit his exposure in the wake of “numerous credible and specific threats” of violence against him and others by far-right figures, according to Capitol Police.

    He told NBC that he has received threats involving “killing me, cutting off my head, vicious and cruel things”.

    “There were some racist attacks as well. It’s all disheartening,” said Lt Byrd, who is Black.

    This is the MAGA world we’re in.

    Paul Montagu (f9a7fa)

  120. This is the MAGA world we’re in.
    Paul Montagu (f9a7fa) — 12/5/2024 @ 12:21 pm

    As opposed to the Nevertrump world where death threats are made good on.

    lloyd (32e712)

  121. As opposed to the Nevertrump world where death threats are made good on.

    Do you have an example?

    Paul Montagu (f9a7fa)

  122. Paul pretending to have lived in a cave the past five months. Precious.

    lloyd (32e712)

  123. You said “made good on”, as in a NeverTrumper killed someone. Whodunnit?

    Paul Montagu (f9a7fa)

  124. Sorry, I’m not in the game playing mood. Someone died, others seriously wounded. You figure it out. Bad faith commenter as usual.

    lloyd (32e712)

  125. @125

    You said “made good on”, as in a NeverTrumper killed someone. Whodunnit?

    Paul Montagu (f9a7fa) — 12/5/2024 @ 12:52 pm

    Corey Comperatore?

    whembly (477db6)

  126. Paul’s been reading too much RT.

    lloyd (32e712)

  127. Bad faith commenter as usual.

    Yeah, but that’s always true with you.

    Since you can’t find an example to support your claim.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  128. You figure it out. Bad faith commenter as usual.

    No, lloyd, you’re bad faith for making a claim and not backing it up, just like your other lie that I support posers posing as Nazis at a Trump rally.

    Corey Comperatore?

    If Biden was a more convenient target, then the shooter woulda picked him. That’s not NeverTrump, that’s a mentally unwell kid trying to go out in a blaze of glory. Even Trump-friendly FoxNews reported it so.blockquote>WASHINGTON – The FBI said the gunman in the assassination attempt of former President Donald Trump searched online for events for both Trump and President Joe Biden, but saw the Pennsylvania campaign rally where he opened fire last month as a “target of opportunity.”And just so we’re clear, a NeverTrumper is defined as…

    A traditionally Republican voter who did not support Donald Trump or the MAGA movement. Never Trumpers are typically moderate conservatives who previously voted for Mitt Romney or backed candidates such as Jeb Bush and Josh Kasich.

    Sounds right to me, to a tee.

    Paul Montagu (f9a7fa)

  129. Excuse the bad blockquoting.

    Paul Montagu (f9a7fa)

  130. I’m about done with lloyd and his snark. It may be time for the blocking script.

    norcal (ccef86)

  131. The same goes for other people who only have one mode, and never criticize their own side.

    norcal (ccef86)

  132. Social media doesn’t have much symphony for united health care ceo. Most wonder if shooter had pre-existing conditions and other health care insurance horror stories.

    asset (cc479c)

  133. @132 You don’t even know who made the threats against the Capitol officer. Hypocrite.

    lloyd (32e712)

  134. Yeah norcal, it would be really distressing if you blocked me. Of course, you’d keep wanting to read Klink’s juvenile rants where everyone is a Nazi. Looks like you’re taking the loss well.

    lloyd (32e712)

  135. @132 You don’t even know who made the threats against the Capitol officer. Hypocrite.

    That’s an evasion, lloyd.
    Be honest for once, you mentioned the “Nevertrump world where death threats are made good on”, which clearly means a NeverTrumper killed someone, and obviously for political reasons, so answer the question: Whodunnit?

    Paul Montagu (f9a7fa)

  136. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  137. 1865-President Andrew Johnson issued a general amnesty to Confederate soldiers (excluding the leadership).

    He eventually pardoned everyone (December 25, 1968).

    But pardoning general officers or state governors who brought a war to the United States that killed several percent of the population, was unforgivable. There should have been 1000 hangings. Too bad that Thaddeus Stevens wasn’t VP.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  138. Presidents have made preemptive pardons throughout the country’s history:

    Except for Andrew Johnson’s Civil War pardons and Ford’s pardon of Nixon, blanket pardons (“all crimes that may have been committed”) are highly unusual. Now we have a third example.

    So, three reasons

    1) Biding the woulds of a civil war
    2) Preventing Watergate from swamping public thought, and
    3) Saving his son.

    But what they are NOW asking for is a pardon for all administration officials for their time in office, for anything they might have done. People who’ve been spying for China or Russia, or embezzling funds, or torturing prisoners at black sites would all be happy with that.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  139. Biding the woulds of a civil war

    Huh?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  140. But what they are NOW asking for is a pardon for all administration officials for their time in office, for anything they might have done.

    Who are they-aside from the speculation in POLTICO’s article, there is nothing to suggest that anyone is specifically asking for such a pardon.

    It’s neverTrumper paranoia run amok.

    1865-President Andrew Johnson issued a general amnesty to Confederate soldiers (excluding the leadership).

    He eventually pardoned everyone (December 25, 1968).

    He sure waited a long time-over 100 years. 😉

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  141. Preventing Watergate from swamping public thought

    And yet every political scandal since then ends with a “-gate” suffix, including quite a few overseas.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  142. RIP Shalom Nagar, the executioner of Adolf Eichmann.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  143. asset (cc479c) — 12/5/2024 @ 1:40 pm

    Social media doesn’t have much symphony for united health care ceo. Most wonder if shooter had pre-existing conditions and other health care insurance horror stories.

    Horror stories there may be, and also the company deciding to stop facilitating fraud, but this was a hired or recruited killer. He was probably no older than 25. You can imagine many different scenarios some much more unlikely tan others.

    What we know is that it was not random attack, somehow recognized his victim, and the killer he was waiting about an hour in a nearby Starbucks, went inside the Hilton conference room (called the Residences Hilton Club) on the second floor at aboutb6:20 am (bluffed his way in?) probably to check if Brian Thompson was already there, went outside hid behind aparked car, watched Brian Thompson pas him by at 6:44 am when it was still dark (sunrise in New York City on December 4 was 7:04 am) followed him – he started following him when he was up to 10 yards away – maybe that’s wrong) fired at him, ad the gun jammed twice because he was using bothasilencer and asubsonic bullet that made less noise (still about as loud as shoe hitting a table) unjammed his gun expertly (using something called “tap. rack, bang) and maybe expected it to jam because he had tested it out before, shot him first in the leg and he went down or maybe tried getting away and shot one or two more times, calmly walked om, crossed the street and ran up a walkway between 54 and 5th street, dropped his cellphone there, and went he got to 66th St turned right till he got to what people still call 6th Avenue in spite of the fact it was renamed Avenue of the Americas in 1945, boarded aCiti Bike there rode up to Central Park and disappeared inside the park, the one place nearby where there are not many cameras.

    Going backwards, they discovered that got out of the subway at 5 am at the F train station at 57St and 6th avenue, was photographed on the subway and had left a building on the Upper West Side at 5 am. But that was not where he was staying. He was staying at a youth hostel. They got a search warrant for his room and they probably have DNA from a cup he used in the Starbucks. And they have a smudged fingerprint.

    He was wearing a ski mask or something and it took some time to get a good picture. They were thinking of electronically processing bits where his face showed, and released a picture showing half his face from the Starbucks but later found a good picture taken in the lobby of the youth hostel.

    The shell casings each had a word engraved, One said ‘Deny,’ one said ‘Defend’, and one said ‘Depose’

    These words are similar to, but not exactly the same, as “delay, deny, defend” — which is also the name of a book published in 2010

    https://www.amazon.com/Delay-Deny-Defend-paperback-JayM-Feinman/dp/0989501701

    The full title is “Delay Deny Defend: Why Insurance Companies Don’t Pay Claims and What You Can Do About It.”

    but maybe there were more words engraved on other shell casings or maybe that’s a red herring or a coincidence or a play on words and refers to something about a lawsuit. (that’s where depose comes in if that word is right)

    Maybe the words were used in a message containing a threat. If the murder was done to achieve something beyond its inevitable consequences someone had to know what they wanted.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/mollybohannon/2024/12/05/deny-defend-depose-what-to-know-about-words-reportedly-on-shell-casings-tied-to-unitedhealthcare-ceo-shooting/

    He was pronounced dead at about 7:12 am but back at the investors meeting they didn’t know anything and when the first rumors hit the people thought that the man who opened the meeting sometime after 8 am had been the one who was shot

    They didn’t call it off till after 9 and then only said something about there being “a very serious medical condition with one of our team members” (?!) Maybe the death had not been confirmed for them because they wanted to notify is family first.

    Brian Thompson had a wife and two children in high school but lives separately from his wife who lived about a mile away from him.

    Minnesota governor and former Democratic vice presidential candidate Tim Walz knew him (he was a donor?)

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  144. Biding the woulds of a civil war

    Sorry. Binding the wounds…

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  145. He sure waited a long time-over 100 years. 😉

    Man, you are hard on typos today.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  146. https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/12/05/nyregion/brian-thompson-unitedhealthcare-news

    Seems to have no paywall.

    They know something more:

    The man arrived in New York on an interstate bus from somewhere south of the city on Nov. 24, the official said.

    The Sunday before Thanksgiving. That’s some time to wait around.

    He checked into the hostel on the Upper West Side after that, checked out on [Friday] Nov. 29 and checked back in the next day, the official added.

    They obviously have the name or names he was using.

    The shooter used a fake New Jersey identification on Nov. 30 to book a room at the hostel on the Upper West Side where he stayed before the murder, [was that a different name than the first one he used?] according to a senior law enforcement official. [He checked out on Wednesday. What time? Almost has to be after the murder. Why? To retrieve some possessions money or ID?] The official also said that a fingerprint believed to be the shooter’s was found on a water bottle at the murder scene, but that it was too smudged to be of value.

    They are considering the possibility that the cell phone was not a burner phone nor a decoy. hey need a search warrant to look into the phone’s contents.

    The gunman probably did not use a Citi Bike which would have required using a debit or credit card, but some other unmarked e-bike. Who placed the getaway bike there?

    A great deal of planning went into this.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  147. And yet every political scandal since then ends with a “-gate”

    Reporters. Whatcha gonna do?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  148. The full title is “Delay Deny Defend: Why Insurance Companies Don’t Pay Claims and What You Can Do About It.”

    Maybe the shooter was doing PR for the book.

    Best Sellers Rank: #150 in Kindle Store (See Top 100 in Kindle Store)

    #1 in Business Insurance (Kindle Store)
    #1 in Insurance Law Business Law
    #1 in Business Insurance (Books)

    I don’t think The Turner Diaries got that much of a bump after the OKC bombing.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  149. https://www.newser.com/story/360625/house-blocks-releasing-gaetz-ethics-report.html

    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/house-vote-gaetz-ethics-investigation-report-released/story?id=116495144

    The House voted 206-198 to refer Democratic Rep. Sean Casten’s resolution — which sought to make the Gaetz report public — back to the Ethics Committee, which voted two weeks ago against releasing the report.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  150. But the books sounds like it’s against all insurance companies dealing with al kinds of insurance.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  151. It’s a somewhat crooked company. Someone told me his idea was that somebody wanted his job. I think the probability of that is very low.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  152. Man, you are hard on typos today.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 12/5/2024 @ 4:15 pm

    It just goes to show you that I read what you post. 😉

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  153. But the books sounds like it’s against all insurance companies dealing with al kinds of insurance.

    Let’s ban insurance. Everyone should just save up.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  154. There needs to be more competition with insurance and reliable consumer reporting. Insurance has a general problem

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  155. Here is the Delay Deny Defend….. website, and an excerpt from its introduction.

    Your insurer’s main objective is not to protect you; in fact, insurers often try to avoid paying justified claims. Today the name of the game is delay, deny, defend: to improve their profits, insurance companies delay payment of justified claims, deny payment altogether, and defend their actions by forcing claimants to enter litigation.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  156. I have only had one experience with a claim that was (initially) denied and, on the face of it, the claim was outside the scope of the policy. Without going into details, it was a dental appliance that was required for a purely medical procedure and all they saw was “dental.” When the medical necessity was shown to them, they paid right up.

    Now, that was with a 1st tier insurer (Blue Cross) and a first tier medical facility (UCLA Westwood). Maybe it’s not so good with a low-cost insurer at a community hospital or, worse, a short-term insurance “plan.” And don’t start me with folks who expect an HMO to pay for something out-of-network or without needed prior approval.

    So, I’ll ask. Is there anyone here who personally experienced an insurer refusing to pay for something in-policy?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  157. @160 I tried to look this up on google ;but the insurance companies did a good job hiding it. Some years ago an insurance company canceled an insurance policy of a sick man because wife made a 2 cent error in filling out the monthly check and the company didn’t want to pay for medical treatment. The internet is full of health insurance horror stories. Some years ago before Obama care which was put in when single payer was blocked by insurance companies. I was listening to a right wing talk show where guest said wealthy canadians come here to jump the line for treatment. (at the time az did not have medicade and pictures of children were on cans begging for money for their operations) I asked how do poor americans pay for medical treatment in the greatest health care system in the world? I was hung up on. I remember back before medicare going to county hospital with hundreds of people standing outside the emergency room waiting to go in. I was told people had died in line waiting to be seen. That is why negative comments about killing of c.e.o.

    asset (c4c24a)

  158. Yeah norcal, it would be really distressing if you blocked me. Of course, you’d keep wanting to read Klink’s juvenile rants where everyone is a Nazi. Looks like you’re taking the loss well.

    lloyd (32e712) — 12/5/2024 @ 1:46 pm

    Actually, the same goes for Klink. And anybody else who can only do vituperative argumentation, or bang a partisan drum, without ever seeing any nuance.

    norcal (ccef86)

  159. Kevin, I’ve had terrible experiences with insurance. Just this summer, our car was stolen, and dealing with the insurance was awful. It felt like they were purposefully putting things off to not have to pay out money. Our car was found crashed and abandoned within 1 day of being stolen, but it took over 3 weeks for the insurance adjuster to come out to the car which caused a lot of problems. Over and over they told us they would do things they didn’t do. In the end I gave up on the process of recovering money I felt I was owed because their time was best spent not paying me and putting up hurdles, and my time I decided eventually was not best spent being on the phone with them. For the sake of brevity I won’t go into the details here.

    THEN we got a new (used) car through Carvana that turned out to be a lemon, but was insured. On the first day of driving, the car popped up a message saying “Stop safely, vehicle will shut down soon.” We pulled over and read about it a little, and found this was a not super uncommon issue that needed the transmission to be replaced. Talk to insurance, bring it to the shop, no error code for what we experienced despite us having a video of what happened insurance wouldn’t cover the repair. Shop fixed an unrelated error code and told us to come back if it happened again. A few days later, on the highway with our kids in the car, the same thing happened. Car began shutting off as we tried to pull to the side of the highway. This time insurance allowed it to be fixed. We get it back (it’s now been like a month with the car having been in the shop for 25 of the days. The battery dies. Insurance says, no that’s a consumable item and isn’t covered. We drove the car for under 100 miles.

    Insurance sucks.

    Nate (cfb326)

  160. The only time I’ve had a problem with car insurance was when I had done something REALLY dumb — I cosigned on a relative’s loan — and had to repo the car, which he had banged up. The company wouldn’t cover it — not reported in a timely manner — and really there was no reason they should. I file that as “young and stupid.”

    Car warranties from third parties are notoriously poor. I won’t defend them, but I also won’t buy them. I am extremely reluctant to buy extended warranties, even from the automaker, as I know they are a bad deal, and come with a lot of restrictions. I will self-insure, thank you.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  161. But I was really talking about health insurance. A lot of what I hear basically comes down to “out-of-network” or “uncovered services” and much of the fault of those is due to providers doing scammy things, not the insurers.

    Example: A guy gets a CAT scan, which his insurance covers. The provider gets a tiny payment. But he sends the results to another doctor, not on the plan, for “analysis” and that doctor hits you with a huge bill which your insurer won’t pay.

    Example: You go into an plan hospital for a surgery with a plan surgeon. But they choose (without notifying or consulting you) an anesthesiologist who isn’t on the plan. Again, huge bill and your insurer won’t pay.

    Sometimes I think there are referral kickbacks.

    People also complain about uncovered services, some of which are fairly common: dentistry, podiatry, hearing aids, chiropractic, acupuncture, weight loss, etc. You get what you pay for.

    Narrow networks and crappy drug plans may come with lower costs (and many Obamacare plans are like this), but the problem is more in expectations not being met than in the insurer not covering what he said he would.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  162. Some years ago an insurance company canceled an insurance policy of a sick man because wife made a 2 cent error in filling out the monthly check and the company didn’t want to pay for medical treatment

    You want anecdotes? OK. Quite some time ago, my mom stopped paying for my sister’s car insurance because she didn’t have the money. There was a 30-day grace period. On day 31, sister totals the car. Initially, they weren’t going to pay (nor should they have), but mom beats them down and they grudgingly cover it so long as a check for the policy amount arrives promptly. Which it did.

    Does my anecdote beat your anecdote?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  163. Insurance in the United States is regulated by the states. They are excellent at preventing bankruptcy (and maybe sometimes prioritize it too much to the exclusion of all other considerations)

    Insurance has two problems: Failure to pay, and false claims. Years ago, I read that insurance companies sometimes too readily pay false claims because they consider it not worth their while to investigate certain types of claims.

    The book characterized itself as advice to consumers.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  164. I read theother day in the Wall Street Journal of something else medical insurance companies do.

    They sell Medicare Advantage policies to veterans.

    The problem is many veterans always or almost always use the VA. There is long standing policy written into law, dating to when Medicare first began, and Medicare Advantage did not exist, that Medicare cannot bill the VA for services it delivers (to keep it out of the Medicare budget and because maybe help for veterans is more easy to get appropriations for)

    https://www.wsj.com/health/healthcare/veterans-medicare-insurers-collect-billions-bfd47d27

    Some Medicare Advantage companies are openly chasing veterans, rebranding their insurance offerings with names like the Humana Honor plan, the Aetna Eagle plan and UnitedHealth Group’s Patriot plan. Almost all the veteran-branded plans offer cash rebates to induce veterans to sign up, a perk that is rare in other Medicare plans.

    “These private Medicare Advantage companies are taking large payments from the federal government but avoid paying for healthcare because the VA provides the services,” said Amal Trivedi, a physician at the Providence VA Medical Center and Brown University professor who has studied the VA-Medicare Advantage payment issue.

    No paywall excerpt:

    This continued under Medicare Advantage. Now the insurers charge Medicare Advantage less for their veterans policies (about 78%) and include dental but they are still making a big profit. To keep veteran signing up they give them a kickback of $100 or so — and they also strive to do something, like have a nurse pay a visit – so they can charge for certain Diagnosis Related Groups that pay more.

    https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/insurers-collected-billions-premiums-medicare-veterans-wsj-says

    There is no market, and a lot of gamesmanship is possible.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  165. insurance companies sometimes too readily pay false claims because they consider it not worth their while to investigate certain types of claims.

    This was particularly the case with fire insurance.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  166. For starters the assassin used a Sharpie and did not etch words on the bullets. I think there were more than three and more than 3 casings found and the police may be withholding key words to guard against false rips and confessions.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  167. The intercity bus on which the perpetrator arrived in New York City on November 24 was a Greyhound that started from Atlanta.

    But he may have gotten on the bus much later and also Atlanta is an airplane hub and he may have flown in there.

    He could be from the Midwest where United health (bo4th the parent company and the medical insurance division) is located

    Maybe he is not even from the United States but nobody at the hostel (some of whom reported recognizing him) mentioned anything about him speaking with a foreign accent or any accent Admittedly reporters have only a few first hand or second hand accounts..

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  168. The killer made a phone call on his burner phone while he was walking to ambush spot.

    <b This definitely was a conspiracy

    although there was only one shooter. It was either n inside job or one done by someone very familiar or with contacts in the company. I think he got paid.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  169. The clearest picture comes from when he was flirting with the receptionist at the hostel and she asked him to uncover his face. He did but only partially.

    That could be the reason facial recognition software still didn’t work or perhaps he is not in the database (maybe because he lives outside the country even if he is a U.S. citizen)

    He probably had batteries for the bike inside his backpack. He did not have the backpack with him when he exited Central Park at 77 St. (The bike is not mentioned in any of the stories – whether he still had it or was walking. Did he hand off the bike, the backpack and the gun to someone who was waiting for him in Central Park?

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  170. The hostel is at 103rd or 104St and Amsterdam Ave, I think the place he was seen leaving early on the morning of December 4 is near 85 St (I think I remember hearing)

    he paid in ash for what he bought at the Starbucks at56th Street and 6th Avenue

    It sounds to me that Brian Thompson was rather close mouthed about the threats he had received. It’s just the way it comes across. Maybe he let his wife know but he didn’t tell her the nature of them.

    He was in the line of succession for the top job at UnitedHealthcare

    In addition to Gov Walz, Trump’s new hostage affairs envoy and former Middle East peace negotiator, Adam Boehler, also knew him.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  171. I think the murder involved either someone (or a number of people) staying out of jail or fear of the loss of a great deal of money (or end of business)

    Use of a silencer in street crime is rare. It was an almost unique weapon (the particular firearm)

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  172. “If Biden was a more convenient target, then the shooter woulda picked him. ”

    Trump provided perhaps the most valuable service in his life by distracting what would have been another school shooter.

    Davethulhu (96c2bd)

  173. @166 No. Heres one united health has stopped asking for customer feed back!

    asset (92d738)

  174. One correction:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/unitedhealthcare-ceo-shooting-brian-thompson-suspect-what-know-rcna183155

    A senior New York City law enforcement official briefed on the investigation said Thursday that shell casings found at the scene had the words “deny,” “defend” and “depose” written on them, but police clarified Friday that it was “delay” and not “defend.”

    He got rid of the bicycle on 86 St between 6:56 am and 7:00 am Wednesday but the bicycke has not been found, nor the gun. But a bakpack was finally found in Central Park (but not found on Wednesday)

    When opened it contained a jacket and some Monopoly money (maybe the police are omitting something)

    The fake NJ ID was also found somewhere.

    The suspect took a cab from the area near where he dropped off/abandoned the bicycle to he Port Authority Bus Terminal near the George Washington Bridge.

    The picture showing most of his face was taken when he checked into the hostel, not out, He kept his mask on almost all times, even when eating (but couldn’t have when shaving) and didn’t speak.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  175. He was in the line of succession for the top job at UnitedHealthcare

    Perhaps the shooter was hired by someone competing for the top job.

    Rip Murdock (4aa4a0)

  176. Rip Murdock (4aa4a0) — 12/7/2024 @ 4:31 pm

    Perhaps the shooter was hired by someone competing for the top job.

    That’s one idea. Not competing right now – this would be looking ahead a year or two or more.

    This would be a bit similar to a portion of the plot of the 1972 movie “The Outside Man” in which the killing that starts the movie is a contract killing by someone hired by a person who wanted to succeed his father in organized crime. It’s really about the gunman trying to avoid being killed himself. Not apparently based on any real events,

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  177. I think he business of both knowing and not knowing the killer’s identity (with Mayor Adams telling confusing things) is that they ay have narrowed his identity down to aa high probability using familial DNA. He’s not in the database but maybe some relatives are, who intersect most likely at one or two persons, so they need to surreptitiously get a DNA sample from him.

    Then there’s the telephone call he was on less than 10 minutes before the murder. It could be with someone involved in murder (but they say there’s no connection) or it could be a call he placed to place himself very far from New York City — but that also could establish his identity somewhat.

    It could be to a girl to whom he gave a false name so maybe that wouldn’t help much.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  178. Man arrested in Altoona Pennsylvania who bears a resemblance to the perpetrator.

    If it is him, he didn’t take the bus to Atlanta but to Philadelphia. (There was a third long distance bus at the bus terminal, besides the local buses to places in New Jersey, I didn’t think he came from the Atlanta, where NYC chose to send detectives, even with the additional idea of Curtis Sliwa’s that he was associated with the “antifa” “Cop City” protesters, itself not inconsistent with the idea of him being a hired killer, since there might be criminal connections with the anti-Cop CIty protesters.)

    This arrest seems to be the result of aa tip by someone who spotted him in aa McDonalds,

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  179. The tipster as an elderly customer at McDonalds. It is not clear if he was wearing a mask. That would have drawn more attention to himself. BTW, he was wearing a different mask in the taxi he took to Washington Heights than in the earlier pictures He got off the taxi in front of abuilding on AMsterdam Avenue (also near the bus terminal) but was not seen in any of the video shot by the building.

    He had a ghost gun that could have been the murder weapon. Earlier today, a caller on a radio show speculated it could have been disassembled or broken but I don’t know why that would make disposal easier. Maybe harder to test for ballistics. They were searching in a lake in the park and also in a park in Washington Heights.

    A caller had also speculated that the telephone call he was seen on shortly before the murder might have been a ruse – i.e. he was talking to nobody. I don’t know about that..

    he was not initially arrested. I guess so they wouldn’t need to give him a Miranda warning – and one of the exceptions to Miranda is if you are trying to determine if there is an imminent threat of another crime.

    he gave (they say) the same New Jersey ID that he had used to check into the hostel. But wasn’t that recovered? Maybe that report is wrong or maybe he had multiple similar IDs.

    They earlier traced him to the hostel because when they traced him back he was last seen walking at 100 St and then they went to all the hostels in the area.

    He had a manifesto on his person. TO mail from Altoona? He was not from Altoona. They later gave a name an said he was from Towson, Maryland (just north of Baltimore)

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  180. They somehow found out early that the “person of interest” had arrived in Altoona, Pennsylvania by Greyhound bus from Philadelphia. I was right – he took the bus to Philadelphia. (But if he is from Maryland he could just as easily taken the bus to DC)

    AlL they would need to do to definitely determine it was him is to test fire the gun and obtain his DNA.

    But now, who prosecutes him?

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  181. His name is Luigi Mangione and he was a high school valedictorian. He was 26-years old, like he looked. His New Jersey ID said “Marc Rosario” Maybe just the same name as the other ID he used in NYC. He was arrested on a firearms charge for the time being.

    Born and raised in Maryland he also has ties to San Francisco and Honolulu.

    On December 4:

    https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/unitedhealthcare-ceo-brian-thompson-murder-shooting-hotel-nyc-philadelphia-altoona-pennsylvania/4049292/

    6:44 a.m. — He shoots Thompson as the executive arrives alone, on foot, having walked from a hotel across the street. The man flees.

    6:48 a.m. — The man enters Central Park by bicycle at the 60th Street and Center Drive entrance. It’s in the park and away from security cameras that police believe he discards a gray backpack.

    6:56 a.m. — He leaves the park at West 77th Street and Central Park West, still on the bicycle.

    6:58 a.m. — He passes another camera on 85th Street and Columbus Avenue, still on the bicycle. [but without his backpack – and may ahve switched masks – SF]

    7 a.m. — He’s at 86th Street, no longer with the bicycle. [one source had him board the taxi at 7:00 but 7:04 is more likely]

    7:04 a.m. — He enters a taxi northbound at 86th Street and Amsterdam Avenue.

    7:30 a.m. — He’s near the George Washington Bridge and the bus terminal there. It offers commuter service to New Jersey and Greyhound routes to Philadelphia, Boston and Washington.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  182. Jessica Tisch said the tipster was an employee at the McDonalds. He had a U.S. passport in addition to all the multiple IDs.

    From the NYT:

    On social media, a man named Luigi Mangione posted pictures of his travels with friends and family.

    He earned both a bachelor’s degree and a master’s degree in engineering at the University of Pennsylvania and graduated in 2020. His major was in computer science, and he minored in mathematics.

    He was on Facebook, X, Instagram

    and Goodreads, where he shared quotations, reviewed books he had read and reflected on algorithms, self-help texts and guides to touring Hawaii.

    More:

    Stanford University confirmed Luigi Mangione was employed as a head counselor in the Stanford Pre-Collegiate Studies Program from May through September of 2019. A Facebook page that appears to belong to Mangione is filled with dozens of photos from the summer, including a soccer game at Stanford, a hike in the hills around the campus and a visit to the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art.

    The gun may have been made with a 3-D printer.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  183. But now, who prosecutes him?

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 12/9/2024 @ 12:28 pm

    The Manhattan DA. Why is that a question?

    Rip Murdock (4aa4a0)

  184. Perhaps the shooter was hired by someone competing for the top job.

    That’s one idea. Not competing right now – this would be looking ahead a year or two or more.

    The best executives plan ahead. 😉

    Rip Murdock (4aa4a0)

  185. The bottle deposit crook fearful that his war in the middle east will be settled and he will have to face the voters is now attacking syrian air bases and military infrastructure even though their military has stood down with no hostile action toward Israel. Casualties among syrian people reported from bombing of chemical weapons sites and Netanyahu’s land grab continues as he tries to cut a deal with druze arabs. (ap, al jazera, usa today, cnn, abc cbs news many others.)

    asset (d87500)

  186. The “bottle deposit crook” is testifying in court today – he got permission for his aides to pass notes to him because of the situation.

    He does not the excuse of a ongoing conflict to want to continue in office, and an assertion that he is deliberately prolonging the war and avoiding the release of the hostages is an obvious malicious libel by his political opponents (for one thing he welcomed Donald Trump’s Jan 20 deadline) and his government is in danger of falling (which would keep him in office as caretaker till new elections) but because the chareidi (so called religious) parties are threatening to join
    in a no confidence vote if legislation authorizing continued draft exemptions is not passed.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  187. 188, There’s one thing: He was carrying over $10,000 in cash on him. So the question is did he make a big withdrawal from the bank (or cash in a trust fund or something, sometime in October or November or whenever he broke off regular contact with his online friends sometime in the fall.

    In his 2 1/2 page written missive (did he want it to be found in the event of his death?) he said that to make things easier for them he was saying he acted alone.

    If he took out more than $10,000 from a bank at one time, and een totals that added up to more in a short time, the bank should have filed a form with the U.S. Treasury. These forms are typically ignored, but they exist,

    If he didn’t then maybe somebody else gave him the money. It could ne he swindled someone ioof course. Monopoly money is used in swindles.

    He could have used a false identity with a bank but then he could also have used a credit or debit card, and he was spending only cash,

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  188. 183.

    The tipster as an elderly customer at McDonalds. It is not clear if he was wearing a mask.

    He was wearing a blue mas that first began being seem in public in 2020. This was his third mask, He must have been hanging around Altoona Pennsylvania for a few days. He probably drew some attention to himself wearing that mask – he had one hook over his ear and ate pulling it up and down. He was also using a laptop.

    Maybe the different accounts of who spotted him can be resolved by speculating it was a customer who called attention to him and a McDonald’s employee who called 911.

    He was first arrested for forgery after they checked his NJ Driver’s license and found it didn’t exist.

    The Altoona police first asked him to pull down his mask and then if he had been in New York City recently, at which point he was visibly shaken up. He presented a fake NJ ID I think the name he used wasn’t widely known even in law enforcement

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  189. He was charged last night with murder so I suppose they’ll let his Pennsylvania court date of Dec 23 go.

    He lived in Hawaii according to his LinkedIn profile.

    His missive said it was all self funded.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  190. : He was carrying over $10,000 in cash on him.

    Actually, according to the Pennsylvania prosecutor, it was $8,000 (and about $200 in foreign currency – Canadian? Japanese? – souvenirs? – he visited Japan in the spring of this year – some special interest of his?)

    If he had $8,000 left he must have started out with more than $10,000 – why they said $10,000 – maybe they didn’t count it or thought Japanese yen were worth about the same as American dollars.

    His mother reported him missing to police on November 9 after his entire family not being able to contact him for several months,

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  191. November 19

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  192. Actually November 18.

    On the evening of Sunday December 8, his mother was contacted by telephone, based on a tip from the San Francisco police (to whom she had reported him missing) hat was forwarded by the FBI to the NYPD on Friday about 45 hours after the murder on Wednesday December 4, and she acknowledged that it could be her son. He was recognized the next morning by someone in a McDonald’s in Altoona Pennsylvania.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.1369 secs.