Patterico's Pontifications

10/23/2024

John F. Kelly’s Disturbing Revelations About Donald Trump

Filed under: General — Dana @ 11:05 am



[guest post by Dana]

John F. Kelly, a former Marine and then-President Trump’s longest serving chief of staff, was interviewed about Donald Trump by a New York Times writer. While his observations are not really surprising (after all, we’ve seen Trump in action for 9 years), having the very worst confirmed though, makes it all the more jarring. His revelations about the former president as seen behind closed doors, reveals that the disturbed individual who held the most powerful position in the world (and seeks to again), was (and is) disdainful toward the U.S. military, admires murderous dictators (including Hitler), wants a military that is loyal to him alone, and resents the limits on a president’s power.

Consider:

Kelly said that based on his experience, Trump met the definition of a “fascist.”

In response to a question about whether he thought Mr. Trump was a fascist, Mr. Kelly first read aloud a definition of fascism…“Well, looking at the definition of fascism: It’s a far-right authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy,” he said.

Mr. Kelly said that definition accurately described Mr. Trump.

“So certainly, in my experience, those are the kinds of things that he thinks would work better in terms of running America,” Mr. Kelly said.

He added: “Certainly the former president is in the far-right area, he’s certainly an authoritarian, admires people who are dictators — he has said that. So he certainly falls into the general definition of fascist, for sure.”

Kelly also discussed Trump’s frustration at his powers being limited:

“He certainly prefers the dictator approach to government,” Mr. Kelly said.

Mr. Trump “never accepted the fact that he wasn’t the most powerful man in the world — and by power, I mean an ability to do anything he wanted, anytime he wanted,” Mr. Kelly said.

Kelly revealed Trump’s criticism of the U.S. military, and his willingness to use them against his perceived domestic enemies:

Mr. Trump’s recent comments about using the military against what he called the “enemy within” were so dangerous, he said, that he felt he had to speak out…“And I think this issue of using the military on — to go after — American citizens is one of those things I think is a very, very bad thing — even to say it for political purposes to get elected — I think it’s a very, very bad thing, let alone actually doing it,” Mr. Kelly said.

Unbelievably, yet not:

Mr. Kelly confirmed previous reports that on more than one occasion Mr. Trump spoke positively of Hitler.

“He commented more than once that, ‘You know, Hitler did some good things, too,’” Mr. Kelly said Mr. Trump told him.

Moreover, Kelly discusses how he had to instruct the President of the United States that Hitler was not to be admired:

“First of all, you should never say that,” Mr. Kelly said that he told Mr. Trump. “But if you knew what Hitler was all about from the beginning to the end, everything he did was in support of his racist, fascist life, you know, the, you know, philosophy, so that nothing he did, you could argue, was good — it was certainly not done for the right reason.”

Dovetailing with the NYT report’s portion concerning Trump and Hitler, The Atlantic also reports that Trump wanted generals like Hitler’s:

“I need the kind of generals that Hitler had,” Trump said in a private conversation in the White House, according to two people who heard him say this. “People who were totally loyal to him, that follow orders.”

Kelly was compelled to provide Trump with a little history lesson regarding Hitler:

In their book, The Divider: Trump in the White House, Peter Baker and Susan Glasser reported that Trump asked John Kelly, his chief of staff at the time, “Why can’t you be like the German generals?” Trump, at various points, had grown frustrated with military officials he deemed disloyal and disobedient. (Throughout the course of his presidency, Trump referred to flag officers as “my generals.”) According to Baker and Glasser, Kelly explained to Trump that German generals “tried to kill Hitler three times and almost pulled it off.” This correction did not move Trump to reconsider his view: “No, no, no, they were totally loyal to him,” the president responded. [W]hen Trump raised the subject of “German generals,” Kelly responded by asking, “‘Do you mean Bismarck’s generals?’” He went on: “I mean, I knew he didn’t know who Bismarck was, or about the Franco-Prussian War. I said, ‘Do you mean the kaiser’s generals? Surely you can’t mean Hitler’s generals? And he said, ‘Yeah, yeah, Hitler’s generals.’ I explained to him that Rommel had to commit suicide after taking part in a plot against Hitler.” Kelly told me Trump was not acquainted with Rommel.

In the NYT interview, Kelly notes that Trump views personal loyalty to him outweighs loyalty to the Constitution, looks down on those who were disabled on the battlefield, and calls service members who were injured or killed “losers and suckers”.

But the greatest danger, I think, is Trump’s demand for loyalty to be toward him before the Constitution. In other words, he would like to see the removal of our nation’s ultimate guardrail. One just has to look around the world to see how destructive compelled loyalty to a fascist leader is, to a nation and its people. It’s therefore mind-boggling that there are voters who actually think this would be a good thing. Even if Trump is not successful at securing the ultimate loyalty, the mere fact that he wants it, demands it, and sees it as beneficial (TO HIM), should be a big enough red flag for voters to understand that he simply cannot be allowed to step foot in the Oval Office again. The danger he would present to our nation with this mindset must be considered un-American and unacceptable to the voters.

Kelly confirms that he is raising alarm bells now because the election is just two weeks away:

In many cases, I would agree with some of his policies,” he said, stressing that as a former military officer he was not endorsing any candidate. “But again, it’s a very dangerous thing to have the wrong person elected to high office.

Especially dangerous for a second time…

Trump reacted to Kelly’s comments tonight, posting on social media:

Thank you for your support against a total degenerate named John Kelly, who made up a story out of pure Trump Derangement Syndrome Hatred! This guy had two qualities, which don’t work well together. He was tough and dumb. The problem is his toughness morphed into weakness, because he became JELLO with time! The story about the Soldiers was A LIE, as are numerous other stories he told. Even though I shouldn’t be wasting my time with him, I always feel it’s necessary to hit back in pursuit of THE TRUTH. John Kelly is a LOWLIFE, and a bad General, whose advice in the White House I no longer sought, and told him to MOVE ON! His wife once told me, at Camp David, John admires you tremendously, and when he leaves the Military, he will only speak well of you. I said, Thank you!

–Dana

199 Responses to “John F. Kelly’s Disturbing Revelations About Donald Trump”

  1. The greatest danger, I think, is his demand for loyalty to him before the Constitution. In other words, the removal of the ultimate guardrail. Compelled loyalty to a fascist leader can be observed throughout the world. It’s mind-boggling that there are voters who think this would be a good thing. Even if he’s not successful at it, the mere fact that he demands it and sees it as beneficial TO HIM, should be a big enough red flag that he cannot be allowed to step foot in the Oval again.

    Dana (ba73a7)

  2. As illustrated, he’s been Hitler curious for decades. This isn’t new, it’s just more open and out loud.

    There have been his quotes and reports of it going back 35 years.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  3. One thing I’m learning is that John Kelly—if what he says is true—spent years trying to implement the policies of an open fascist who praised Hitler and he only decided to reveal this a few weeks prior to an election featuring that fascist and for some reason he should praised.

    whembly (477db6)

  4. Kelly’s definition of fascism is mostly accurate, except for limiting it to “far-right.” Far-left also works there, e.g. Castro’s Cuba.

    That being said, it’s hard to argue that Trump’s current agenda is not fascist, although “forcible suppression of opposition” was notably absent from his first term and is hard to imagine even under a second term.

    That he might use political force to keep his party in line is a different thing, but threatening politicians with voters isn’t exactly unheard-of (see “abortion” and the Democrat Party).

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  5. I would point out that the Founders pretty much expected wannabe dictators and other scoundrels — there were even some among its number — but they crafted a system that would restrain them and channel their activities towards national welfare. This failed rarely (e.g. The Trail of Tears), but usually succeeded.

    So, while I expect that Trump wants to be Emperor, it is unlikely he will manage to do so. If he should win, I view it as a stress test, and a necessary one given the absurd power that we have given presidents. I expect he will fail (he’s nowhere as capable as Jackson) and his ham-handed attempts will far more likely lead to a useful devolution of Presidential power instead.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  6. Trump may be “Hitler-curious” but he’s a rather stupid man. Of all the things that Hitler was guilty of, “stupid” is not one of them. Trump will overreach and do it poorly. Even if he is not removed from office, his attempts will be thwarted and afterwards the powers he attempted to abuse will be curtailed.

    Why do people have such a poor view of our Constitution that they think that this bloody-minded, venal and willful man will succeed in overturning it, where everyone else has failed?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  7. whembly (477db6) — 10/23/2024 @ 11:20 am

    That sounds like you didn’t learn anything. Kelly was there to dissuade Trump from his worser impulses, and to keep him on the right side of the law and the Constitution, and then he got fed up when Trump betrayed the Kurds.

    Paul Montagu (7d8750)

  8. Hoping for the Hitler wannabe to not be able to Hitler successfully is just hope.

    Let’s just not take a chance, there’s a vast chasm between full Hitler, and the things stupid Hitler can do.

    From now on I will be using Kevin’s description of Trump, stupid Hitler is his new name.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  9. The cognitive dissonance between calling Trump a “fascist” and “threat to democracy” while at the same time calling his language about an “enemy within” beyond the pale is especially telling.

    NJRob (017960)

  10. Kabala got her “HiTLeR!!! marching order as well…

    Yawn.

    BuDuh (e63962)

  11. It’s the fact that he talks about “the enemy within” and openly calls for the military to be used against said enemy which makes him a clear threat to democracy.

    His opponents are responding to his dangerous rhetoric by calling it what it is.

    aphrael (078a66)

  12. Even if you believe everything Kelly says, he sat on this info for 4 years without sharing it. Seems like an important data point when determining whether or not Kelly is being truthful.

    SaveFarris (79ab12)

  13. Fascism = far right? Did Mussolini advocate for the gold standard?

    Joe (584b3d)

  14. Female athletes have lost nearly 900 medals to transgender rivals competing against them in women’s sporting categories, an eye-opening United Nations report has revealed.

    The study — titled “Violence against women and girls in sports” — stated that more than 600 female athletes have been bested at various events by competitors who were born male.

    I wonder where Hitler would have been on this topic? Think of all the Hitler protégés that may have sided with Hitler. Is everyone HiTLeR?!?!??!!!!!

    Is John Kelly Hitler? Where does he stand on this topic.

    BuDuh (e63962)

  15. Even if you believe everything Kelly says, he sat on this info for 4 years without sharing it. Seems like an important data point when determining whether or not Kelly is being truthful.

    I mean, other than this not being new and came out in 2020 and 21.

    Next whatabout?

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  16. The dark night of fascism is always descending with Trump and yet lands only with Nevertrump. (h/t Tom Wolfe)

    Putting his political opponents in prison, inciting assassinations, thwarting the will of the people through an autonomous central bureaucracy of Anonymous types, global instability — these are not the actions of Trump. Own it.

    lloyd (4f1fc0)

  17. hahahaha. Look, it’s cool if he’s stupid Hitler, it makes sane people mad when we excuse it, and his mental defects, and his general lack of understanding of any subject, ever. 38,000 lies in his first term, 112,000 this year, ha, he’s pwning the h8ters, lolz

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  18. Kelly explained why he came out just recently in his NYT interview, and it was because of Trump’s fascist comments about using the National Guard or military to “handle” his political enemies, enemies as defined by Trump.

    Paul Montagu (7d8750)

  19. Why do people have such a poor view of our Constitution that they think that this bloody-minded, venal and willful man will succeed in overturning it, where everyone else has failed?

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 10/23/2024 @ 11:36 am

    Because many expect the Republican majority in Congress will back him.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  20. Trump may be “Hitler-curious” ………

    It’s more like he is “Hitler incurious.”

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  21. Why do people have such a poor view of our Constitution that they think that this bloody-minded, venal and willful man will succeed in overturning it, where everyone else has failed?

    Because the Constitution these days is notes left on the refrigerator by Ginni and Martha Ann.

    nk (a57409)

  22. Why do people have such a poor view of our Constitution that they think that this bloody-minded, venal and willful man will succeed in overturning it, where everyone else has failed?

    This is just admitting he’s a scumbag and excusing it via hand wave.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  23. “I need the kind of generals that Hitler had,”

    Not like Hitler had. Like Hitler wanted. He executed lots of them.

    (He had made them swear oaths of personal loyalty to him. And they also had been indoctrinated in the idea of noninvolvement in politics in the 1920s during the Weimar Republic – and to their minds this also applied to a dictatorship)

    Trump’s knowledge of history is not that solid.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  24. Why do people have such a poor view of our Constitution that they think that this bloody-minded, venal and willful man will succeed in overturning it, where everyone else has failed?

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 10/23/2024 @ 11:36 am

    Because many expect the Republican majority in Congress will back him.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/23/2024 @ 1:12 pm

    I also suspect a large number of his voters would back him in using the military against their perceived “enemies within.”

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  25. Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 10/23/2024 @ 1:23 pm

    This is just admitting he’s a scumbag and excusing it via hand wave.

    Not excusing it, but telling people not to worry.

    Trump is not even Ferdinand Marcos. And the U.S. military is loyal to the constitution and our system of government. They’re not like the Iranian military in February, 1979.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  26. When Trump accuses, he confesses. And so do his sycophants. When they say “the enemies within” it means they are the enemies within.

    nk (a57409)

  27. Trump on ‘poisoning the blood’ remarks: ‘I never knew that Hitler said it’

    But somebody who advised him did. (assuming Trump is telling the truth. He could also have been trolling)

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  28. Obama and Biden were the ones who got rid of Generals that followed the Constitution and replaced them with loyalists.

    But carry on carrying water for the left.

    NJRob (017960)

  29. Why do people have such a poor view of our Constitution that they think that this bloody-minded, venal and willful man will succeed in overturning it, where everyone else has failed?

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 10/23/2024 @ 11:36 am

    It doesn’t really matter if we think he’ll succeed or not (he won’t). That’s not the point. What matters is that he even thinks it, wants it, demands it. That is a clear indicator of his mindset and where he’ll focus. That alone is, at the least, very problematic.

    Dana (08ffe8)

  30. AI by Google says that “according to the Nuremberg trials” (!?) no German generals were executed by the Nazi regime during World War II, but I recall reading a summary in the back of “The Decline and Fall of Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan”

    Anyway there is this:

    https://www.military.com/off-duty/2020/04/20/reminder-nazis-made-top-general-kill-himself.html

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  31. Not like Hitler had. Like Hitler wanted. He executed lots of them.

    That’s why Trump is stupid Hitler. Expecting Trump to know things like, Hitler/bad is asking a lot.

    Hitler had big crowds, stupid Hitler has big crowds, Hitler is famous, stupid Hitler likes that. That’s enough.

    Admitting he’s stupid Hitler kind of gives away the game. You know what you are when you vote Hitler, stupid or not. A f-ing Nazi, in this case stupid Nazi.

    Kind of like new Coke vs original Coke. It’s Coke, only less.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  32. Jeez…

    It’s safe to say that we’re now at the “Goodwin’ed” phase.

    Told you the run up to the election, everyone loses their sh!t.

    whembly (477db6)

  33. Maybe the table in the book was of German generals who died, because it also gave figures for World War I. I’ve got to find that book. It may have separately listed executed.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  34. Trump’s family hid and lied about their German origins, and when his father discriminated in renting, he favored Jews (and “executives”) and even supported a synagogue.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  35. I’m honestly curious about what it would actually take for Trump defenders/voters here to reject him? What’s your red line? Is there anything that would just be beyond the pale for you?

    Dana (6e8dc3)

  36. Hitler’s dad wasn’t a Nazi when lil’ Ady was a child.

    Fred wasn’t a stupid Nazi either, but his son, big stupid Hitler.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  37. Erwin Rommel who was implicated in the Walkurie plot against Hitler was allowed to commit suicide.

    High General Friedrich Fromm, the titular leader of the plot, was executed but by firing squad, spared being “hanged like cattle” from piano wire like other conspirators.

    Admiral Wilhelm Canaris was hanged naked from a butcher’s hook in a concentration camp. Admittedly, he was not then a military officer, he was chief of the German spy service.

    I would say that you got incomplete information, Sammy.

    nk (5d121b)

  38. Obama and Biden were the ones who got rid of Generals that followed the Constitution and replaced them with loyalists.

    Which generals?

    Paul Montagu (7d8750)

  39. It’s safe to say that we’re now at the “Goodwin’ed” phase.

    Trump said the words. He invoked Godwin.

    Paul Montagu (7d8750)

  40. @39

    Which generals?

    Paul Montagu (7d8750) — 10/23/2024 @ 2:44 pm

    Google is your friend:
    https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/197-military-officers-purged-by-obama/

    whembly (477db6)

  41. “Google is your friend:
    https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/197-military-officers-purged-by-obama/

    Article starts out with a lie: “He was relieved as head of U.S. Africa Command after only a year and a half because he disagreed with orders not to mount a rescue mission in response to the Sept. 11, 2012, attack in Benghazi.

    According to Ham himself there was no stand down order.

    Davethulhu (f2839c)

  42. Truth:

    https://thedispatch.com/newsletter/boilingfrogs/liberal-tears/

    A virtuous people would not reelect Donald Trump, having learned from hard experience who and what he is. If Americans choose to reelect him anyway, what’s the obvious conclusion to be drawn?

    Tens of millions of people are going to wake up next month to find that they don’t live in the country they thought they did. Liberals, classical and otherwise, will discover overnight that they’re now outnumbered by a coalition of earnest fascists, partisan Republicans who’ll rationalize literally anything, and millions upon millions of less tribal voters who don’t care how corrupt Trump is or which laws he breaks or whether he overturns elections or not so long as they get the results on their pet issues that they’re hoping for.

    I did the bolding. The bolded parts aptly describe some of the commenters here.

    norcal (c90797)

  43. More Nick:

    https://thedispatch.com/newsletter/boilingfrogs/liberal-tears/

    No matter how crazy Trump’s second term gets, no matter how loathsomely he behaves, there will never come a moment when they admit that Kamala Harris was the lesser of two evils. Literally never.

    norcal (c90797)

  44. Google is your friend:

    Indeed. IBD cited Breitbart, so I question the contention. Here’s a summary of military fired under Obama, and it looks like they were for cause.

    Obviously, the context of these nine “firings” puts the entire validity of the list into question. Many were removed for misconduct or violation of military protocol. Several were near or at the Army’s mandatory retirement age of 62. None were simply sacked willy nilly by President Obama. More than a conspiracy or purge, it speaks to a renewed lack of tolerance for behavior among senior officers that brings disgrace or embarrassment on the military as a whole.

    The longer list comprises 200 names over the entire armed forces, from admirals and generals to individual ship commanders. It’s full of names, but no information as to why they were removed from their posts. As such, we can only look at it as a Gish Gallop, designed to overwhelm the reader with bits of data that are devoid of context. It’s also important to point out that military officers retire early, are reassigned or get removed from command all the time. It happens for numerous reasons, no matter who the president happens to be.

    Paul Montagu (7d8750)

  45. I’m honestly curious about what it would actually take for Trump defenders/voters here to reject him? What’s your red line? Is there anything that would just be beyond the pale for you?

    I wish Alex Wagner would have asked her guests that set of questions.

    Maybe she didn’t explain “Hitler” to them before the cameras went live?

    BuDuh (e63962)

  46. Bootlicker:

    Keith Kellogg

    @generalkellogg

    Vice President Harris is a fraud. I was in the White House at a senior level much longer than General Kelly. He is complicit in this fraud and has lied to the American people. His lies, as well as John Bolton’s, are a disservice to Nation at this critical time. So are the VP’s.

    Kellogg is probably Hitler too.

    BuDuh (e63962)

  47. Because many expect the Republican majority in Congress will back him.

    That’s odd, because they didn’t back him last time.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  48. General Kellogg sounds like General Flynn, who was complicit in the fascistic effort to overturn the 2020 election.

    norcal (c90797)

  49. His opponents are responding to his dangerous rhetoric by calling it what it is.

    But nowhere have they responded to decades of warnings about the excessive power the president has, and the danger that someone “bad” will gain it.

    This way, of course, we can continue to call the opponent “Hitler” and not have to actually argue our case.

    Previous Hitlers: Bush, Bush and Romney. I sense a pattern. Now you may actually have one but it’s weak gruel now.

    Better idea: Disembowel the Executive’s powers.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  50. What is the objective argument for Harris, without referencing MAGA or Trump?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  51. Because the Constitution these days is notes left on the refrigerator by Ginni and Martha Ann.

    This is deeply Far Left. Talk about conspiracy theories. Maybe Harris can order them taken out and shot.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  52. Trump’s knowledge of history is not that solid.

    FIFY. I know potheads with a better grasp.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  53. It doesn’t really matter if we think he’ll succeed or not (he won’t). That’s not the point. What matters is that he even thinks it, wants it, demands it. That is a clear indicator of his mindset and where he’ll focus. That alone is, at the least, very problematic

    The problem is not Trump. It’s the Assh0le Magnet that we’ve turned the Presidency into. All Trump can do is expose the problem. If not him, it will be someone else. Unless we fix it.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  54. What is the objective argument for Harris, without referencing MAGA or Trump?

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 10/23/2024 @ 4:58 pm

    Enough with the assassination. Tell us about the play, Mrs. Lincoln. 😉

    norcal (c90797)

  55. This is deeply Far Left. Talk about conspiracy theories. Maybe Harris can order them taken out and shot.

    No women, no kids.

    But nowhere have they responded to decades of warnings about the excessive power the president has, and the danger that someone “bad” will gain it.

    And now they gifted him Presidential immunity.

    What is the objective argument for Harris, without referencing MAGA or Trump?

    The Constitution says we must have a President and it must be a person.

    nk (96f0e8)

  56. Is there any doubt generals are political officers.
    Is there any doubt Biden should be retired by the 25th amendment?
    How come no military officer in DOD has pointed this out? Looking at you SecDef.

    Joe (584b3d)

  57. Kellogg is probably Hitler too.

    Hans Krebs.

    nk (96f0e8)

  58. Previous Hitlers: Bush, Bush and Romney. I sense a pattern. Now you may actually have one but it’s weak gruel now.

    It’s a neverending bogus equivalency. None of the previous guys said Hitler did some good. None of them kept a book of Hitler’s speeches by their bedstands.

    Paul Montagu (7d8750)

  59. Google is your friend:

    https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/197-military-officers-purged-by-obama/

    whembly (477db6) — 10/23/2024 @ 2:47 pm

    I thought you once said Google isn’t your friend. 😉

    Be that as it may, your linked article lies about all three of officers it mentions as to why they were relieved of duty.

    It incorrectly states that Gen. Carter Ham was “relieved as head of U.S. Africa Command after only a year and a half because he disagreed with orders not to mount a rescue mission in response to the Sept. 11, 2012, attack in Benghazi,” which is untrue. He completed a two-year tour of duty as Commander, Africa Command, and he denied that “President Barack Obama or others in Obama’s administration had ordered him to “stand down” a planned rescue mission that was ready to deploy.”

    Maj. Gen. Michael Carey was relieved from command for being drunk while on duty.

    Rear Adm. Charles M. Gauoette was not relieved of duty “for disobeying orders when he sent his group on Sept. 11 to “assist and provide intelligence for military forces ordered into action by Gen. Ham.” He was relieved for “racially insensitive remarks and emails.

    Fail!

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  60. It’s a neverending bogus equivalency. None of the previous guys said Hitler did some good. None of them kept a book of Hitler’s speeches by their bedstands.

    It’s a never-ending refrain, too. All Republicans are Hitler. Now, again it’s Hitler. Have you ever heard about the problems with calling “Wolf!”?

    Now you say “This time it’s really true!”, based on the assertions of a man who served under “Hitler” without a qualm.

    Even if it was true, it does not argue for Harris. It argues for making the Presidency less of a Hitler-Magnet.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  61. I added Trump’s reaction to Kelly’s claims to the post.

    Dana (586f21)

  62. @kevin The concern about the constitution is that people have to be willing to enforce it and we already know that a rather large number of people who would be needed to enforce it against Trump just won’t.

    Nic (120c94)

  63. Yeah, yeah. The aproned man handing out french fries; the one who personally paid for the Vets parade in NY in 1995; the one who ran in a contested primary with 14 other candidates and won in 2016; the one who does NOT want to trim the first amdt, or the 2d Amdt, or abolish the E College; the one who was indicted for repaying a loan on time, and having classified documents like Joe Biden had (who didn’t get indicted); the one who slapped sanctions on Nordstream 2, and sent real weapons to the Ukraine – – – – HE’s the fascist. Yeah OK.

    Harcourt Fenton Mudd (d8f69a)

  64. Full-Blown Scandal’: Biden-Harris Admin Hid Documents To Justify Fossil Fuel Crackdown, Oversight Committee Says

    Where are those enforcers of The Constitution and executive overreach???

    HELP!!!

    BuDuh (4214e4)

  65. @kevin The concern about the constitution is that people have to be willing to enforce it and we already know that a rather large number of people who would be needed to enforce it against Trump just won’t.

    Which Democrats will enforce it against Harris? Name 3 you are certain of. How did they respond to Biden’s various cheats?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  66. When Trump did unconstitutional things, or even when he did things that *might* be unconstitutional, the press publicized the charges and some pliant judges (e.g. in Hawaii) issue blanket injunctions.

    When Biden did unconstitutional things, the press lauded his “necessary” actions and advised the beneficiaries how to take advantage, and the courts mostly worried about how plaintiffs didn’t have standing.

    Harris wants to tax unrealized gains. The press will think that’s fantastic (save for the WSJ) and the Roberts (“It’s just a tax”) Court indicated that it might just work.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  67. The left knows they cannot win fairly. so they continue to rile up the crazies with their insane rhetoric hoping someone will succeed in murdering Trump.

    It’s beyond evil.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  68. Every Nevertrump accusation is a confession.

    lloyd (9e4850)

  69. > Why do people have such a poor view of our Constitution that they think that this bloody-minded,

    Because the constitution is not self enforcing, it relies on men to abide by it. We know trump won’t, and we expect him to fill.the government with men whose loyalty is to him and not to the constitution.

    And because we infer from the fact that the right has lined up with Trump that the right has concluded that they’re fine with that.

    aphrael (8c9441)

  70. Aphrael,

    you’ve chosen to line up on the left with those who have clearly stated that they don’t support the Constitution and consider it an obstacle to their goals.

    Your presidential and VP candidates have spoken about destroying the 1st and 2nd Amendments.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  71. @Kevin@66 We don’t know that they won’t with the Dems. We know with the Reps that even sending a mob to violently attack them isn’t enough. If there are two openings and I have to put my hand in one of them and opening one says “Your hand will be smashed with a hammer” and opening 2 says “Your hand might be smashed with a hammer” I’m choosing opening 2.

    Nic (120c94)

  72. sending a mob

    Out of the 74 million people that voted for Trump, what percentage was the “mob?”

    How come the remaining percentage, that wasn’t the “mob,” failed to participate?

    BuDuh (4214e4)

  73. The percentage question is constantly evaded, Nic. You would be the first to run the numbers, if you choose to.

    The reason this question makes the diehards uncomfortable is because it exposes how the overwhelming majority of Trump supporters understood Trump’s positions. “Peaceful.” The broad brush simply doesn’t work here when you math out the infinitesimal fringe that went nuts that day.

    BuDuh (4214e4)

  74. Harris wants to tax unrealized gains. The press will think that’s fantastic (save for the WSJ) and the Roberts (“It’s just a tax”) Court indicated that it might just work.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 10/23/2024 @ 6:11 pm

    Congress missing from your equation.

    Rip Murdock (69aa54)

  75. Congress will save you:

    Congress missing from your equation.

    Rip Murdock (69aa54) — 10/23/2024 @ 7:42 pm

    Congress will kill you:

    Because many expect the Republican majority in Congress will back him.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/23/2024 @ 1:12 pm

    Typical

    BuDuh (4214e4)

  76. BuDuh (4214e4) — 10/23/2024 @ 7:45 pm

    A Republican Congress can do both.

    Rip Murdock (69aa54)

  77. How did the republican congress do on the obamacare repeal?

    Your Schoolhouse Crock lessons are useless.

    BuDuh (4214e4)

  78. How come the remaining percentage, that wasn’t the “mob,” failed to participate?

    They were in Tacoma before they realized that they were supposed to go to Washington DC. DC!

    nk (23290d)

  79. How did the republican congress do on the obamacare repeal?

    What happened in 2017 is irrelevant. The Congress (and Republican Party) of 2024 are vastly different than what that existed 7 years ago.

    Rip Murdock (69aa54)

  80. How did the republican congress do on the obamacare repeal?

    Why do you think nothing has changed in 7 years?

    Rip Murdock (69aa54)

  81. @Budah@73 It doesn’t matter what percentage unless I’m claiming that a significant percentage of Republicans were part of the mob. I like to think that most Republicans wouldn’t join a mob like that, that most are people who would respect the voting process. Unfortunately the number that did choose to join was enough to endanger the congress and Trump sent them.

    Nic (120c94)

  82. But his rallying cry fell on deaf ears for a percentage you apparently don’t want to put into print. This is because so many people didn’t think Trump suggested anything near an attack on congress.

    Humor me. Do the math.

    BuDuh (4214e4)

  83. @82 “Trump sent them.”

    By the same logic, Biden sent Crooks and Routh.

    lloyd (9e4850)

  84. Congress will save you:

    Congress missing from your equation.

    Rip Murdock (69aa54) — 10/23/2024 @ 7:42 pm

    Congress will kill you:

    Because many expect the Republican majority in Congress will back him.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/23/2024 @ 1:12 pm

    Congress can’t do anything:

    Why do you think nothing has changed in 7 years?

    Rip Murdock (69aa54) — 10/23/2024 @ 8:03 pm

    Remarkable…

    BuDuh (4214e4)

  85. Whatever the percentage of Trump voters that did or didn’t attend the insurrection (in its commonly understood, not legal definition) is irrelevant to fact that Trump encouraged those that did attend to march on the Capitol and intimidate members of Congress ratifying the 2020 election.

    Rip Murdock (69aa54)

  86. Trump encouraged those that did attend to march on the Capitol and intimidate members of Congress ratifying the 2020 election.

    What is the percentage of those who attended?

    BuDuh (4214e4)

  87. Trump encouraged those that did attend to march on the Capitol and intimidate members of Congress ratifying the 2020 election.

    What is the percentage of those who attended?

    BuDuh (4214e4) — 10/23/2024 @ 8:20 pm

    The percentage is irrelevant.

    Rip Murdock (69aa54)

  88. The percentage wrecks your narrative.

    Literally Hitler had amassed his literal brownshirts in DC and literally ordered the attack. How many of his literal brownshirts followed his literal orders?

    The answer lies between 0% and 100%.

    BuDuh (4214e4)

  89. Now you say “This time it’s really true!”, based on the assertions of a man who served under “Hitler” without a qualm.

    You’re confused and wrong, Kevin. It’s not me saying it, it’s Trump saying it, in his own words, hence your bogus comparison.

    Paul Montagu (7d8750)

  90. @Budah@83 Do you realize that you just said that you believe most republicans would be willing to attack congress on Trump’s orders? That’s, um, a way worse opinion about republicans than I’ve every held.

    @lloyd@84 I was watching that day. I don’t have any Trump blinders. What happened happened.

    Nic (120c94)

  91. james carville: the price of eggs is to high I am going to vote for trump! 2024 election.

    asset (505778)

  92. Trumpsters in state of Georgia have state do audit of all registered voters in state to stop thousands of illegal aliens voting. Audit finds only 20 not citizens registered to vote out of 8 million and removed from rolls with out voting. (ABC news) Terrorist trumpster j. kelly 60 arrested in tempe az for shooting up democrat campaign office and spreading white powder. (AP)

    asset (505778)

  93. I’m honestly curious about what it would actually take for Trump defenders/voters here to reject him? What’s your red line? Is there anything that would just be beyond the pale for you?

    Dana (6e8dc3) — 10/23/2024 @ 2:08 pm

    I asked the same question in the open thread, and received just one reply. It was non-responsive, but to whembly’s credit, it was closer to a substantive answer than the whatabout you got from BuDuh. Curious that no Trump voter seems willing to say, simply, “I wouldn’t vote for Trump if he said or did [__].”

    It’s impossible to prove, but I believe many Trump voters would have called much of what he’s done disqualifying, had they been asked before they knew he did it. And I’d bet my paycheck they’d say it’s disqualifying if Biden or Harris had done it. I had no difficulty saying I wouldn’t vote for Biden or Harris if they did likewise, but then I have no investment in the Dems or their agenda.

    So what is it about Trump that his supporters refuse to constrain him within any boundaries? Some people call it a cult, but I disagree. I think it’s just tribal. He validates their animosity. I don’t expect MAGA to miss a beat when his successor, whoever that may be, does the same.

    lurker (c23034)

  94. This past weekend, I was taking a walk in my neighborhood when I encountered a man and woman going door to door. I asked them whom they were stumping for, and they said the Democrat Party. I told them they could skip my house because I had already decided to vote for Harris.

    The man told me that he had a gun pulled on him when he knocked on the door of a Trump supporter. Talk about animus.

    norcal (c90797)

  95. How did the republican congress do on the obamacare repeal?

    Your Schoolhouse Crock lessons are useless.

    BuDuh (4214e4) — 10/23/2024 @ 7:54 pm

    As I’ve said before, if Trump hadn’t insulted McCain by calling him a loser for being captured, he might have voted differently.

    Since apparently you never learned anything from Schoolhouse Rock, how do you expect Trump’s tax cuts to be extended or his promises to exempt SS payments or tips from taxation to be enacted-by executive diktat?

    Rip Murdock (69aa54)

  96. Some people call it a cult, but I disagree. I think it’s just tribal.

    lurker (c23034) — 10/23/2024 @ 10:53 pm

    It’s MAGA tribal culture.

    norcal (c90797)

  97. Also from the other thread:

    @560

    Does any Trump voter here doubt that Kelly’s factual account is accurate
    lurker (c23034) — 10/23/2024 @ 4:17 am

    Yeah, I very much doubt it.

    whembly (477db6) — 10/23/2024 @ 6:23 am

    So you take the word of a serial compulsive liar over that of a career Marine General whose accounts and impressions are corroborated in whole or part by many of Trump’s highest appointees and advisors?

    That takes some serious blinders.

    lurker (c23034)

  98. Nic (120c94) — 10/23/2024 @ 9:36 pm

    Please diagram my sentence that led you to that cleverness and I will happily correct whatever my error is that you are presenting as a shield that prevents you from giving an honest answer about the actual question that you and I both know you understand.

    BuDuh (4214e4)

  99. Sure.

    Out of the 74 million people that voted for Trump, what percentage was the “mob?”

    How come the remaining percentage, that wasn’t the “mob,” failed to participate?

    In this quote you posit that the people Trump was directly instruction were all 74 million of his voters. (almost all of whom were not available to form a mob to march on the capitol since they weren’t there)

    The percentage question is constantly evaded, Nic. You would be the first to run the numbers, if you choose to.

    The reason this question makes the diehards uncomfortable is because it exposes how the overwhelming majority of Trump supporters understood Trump’s positions. “Peaceful.” The broad brush simply doesn’t work here when you math out the infinitesimal fringe that went nuts that day.

    Here you posit that most of the 74 million people who voted for Trump were acting directly in response to his instructions, rather than their own decision making. Thus willing to be violent had he instructed them to be and so your argument reads that the reason the percentage is important is that most of the 74 million followed what you saw as his instructions but that if his instructions had been otherwise, a much higher percentage of them would’ve joined the insurrection.

    But his rallying cry fell on deaf ears for a percentage you apparently don’t want to put into print. This is because so many people didn’t think Trump suggested anything near an attack on congress.

    You posit that they didn’t is proof that he didn’t give an instruction to be violent. Because otherwise they would’ve, if he’d asked.

    I, on the other hand, posit that he did give such an instruction and that most of those 74 million had better sense to show up to his rally and follow his insurrection directives.

    Nic (120c94)

  100. Do you have any idea how many knights didn’t kill Thomas Becket? Why should I believe the four who did were acting on Henry’s orders? Turbulent priest indeed. He meant it affectionately. I’m not even convinced Becket is dead.

    lurker (c23034)

  101. That isn’t diagramming.

    BuDuh (4214e4)

  102. https://www.wikihow.com/Diagram-Sentences

    Let’s see where your inferences differ.

    I don’t mind a “same page” dialogue. Let me know when you get there, Nic.

    BuDuh (4214e4)

  103. I, on the other hand, posit that he did give such an instruction and that most of those 74 million had better sense to show up to his rally and follow his insurrection directives.

    Separately from what you are saying that you think I said I would like to ask a question about this statement. What percentage of those 74 million had “better sense?”

    BuDuh (4214e4)

  104. I’ll get you in the ballpark for my last question. We can work on exact numbers tomorrow after you figure out my original posts.

    I, on the other hand, posit that he did give such an instruction and that 99.9% of those 74 million had better sense to show up to his rally and follow his insurrection directives.

    Then you should have no fear. This is a resounding win for the reasoning capacity of the majority of Trump voters.

    You should be able to sleep well now. I know I will. Goodnight.

    BuDuh (4214e4)

  105. I, on the other hand, posit that he did give such an instruction and that most of those 74 million had better sense to show up to his rally and follow his insurrection directives.

    So when he ordered them to fight only several thousand of them present did. And your point is what, only 30% of stupid Hitler’s followers are also stupid Nazis? Do you think your defense of stupid Hitler makes sense?

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  106. I never asked you, Klink, because after your General Motors face plant, I assumed your weren’t good with numbers as well. I see I was correct.

    Sleep restlessly, chump.

    BuDuh (4214e4)

  107. So you’re siding with stupid Nazis. Do you know what that makes you?

    The stupid part was well known.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  108. — “Steiner will stop them.”
    — “Mein Fuhrer …”
    — “… Mein Fuhrer, Steiner could not muster enough troops.”

    Hitler was INNOCENT!

    SO UNFAIR!

    nk (23290d)

  109. Okay, let us assume, as BuDuh proposes, that Trump is an uninspiring and inept conman, and that his rubes and marks are overwhelmingly too shiftless and stupid to do anything more than send him their money and vote the way he tells them to.

    That still does not make him any the less an Unclean Creature of Darkness, nor provide any reason to allow him and his microbe colony back into the White House.

    nk (23290d)

  110. How many Republicans still believe the 2020 election lies leveled by Trump?

    How many Republicans refused to condemn Trump’s actions to spin up the J6 mob and inaction to stop its relentless assault on the Capitol police?

    How many Republicans when confronted with a fresh start pick in the GOP primary still preferred the guy who had a felony indictment for disrupting a Congressional proceeding and attempting to deny people their vote?

    How many Republicans indulged in wild J6 false-flag conspiracies, blamed Pelosi, blamed the FBI, drew false equivalencies with Minneapolis, Ferguson, and Portland, and compained about voting changes in the states that they won but ignored the changes in states Trump won?

    How many Republicans helped to try to delegitimize the J6 investigation and call it a witch hunt?

    How many Republicans indulged Tucker Carlson’s J6 video expose where he falsely painted the event as largely peaceful?

    How many Republicans fought Trump’s second impeachment in social media?

    How many Republicans failed to demand any accountability from Trump….and continue to yuck it up as he uses his prominent political stage to talk about Arnold Palmer’s alleged endowment, Hannibal Lecter, Haitian conspiracy memes, sharks, and bizarre dance fests?

    On November 8, 1923, approximately two thousand Nazis violently marched on the Feldherrnhalle, in the Munich city centre, but were confronted by a police cordon, which resulted in the deaths of 15 Nazis, four police officers, and one bystander in what is known as the Beer Hall Putsch. Few people minimize it by claiming that it was only a few thousand out of 60M Germans. The historical significance is not lost on serious people. Unfortunately we’re lacking serious people.

    AJ_Liberty (3fb60e)

  111. https://hotair.com/david-strom/2024/10/24/general-kelly-if-you-knew-trump-admired-hitler-why-did-you-not-resign-n3796180

    Strom nails it, but NeverTrump will continue to grasp at straws to justify voting for the socialist.

    NJRob (c170e1)

  112. Were those Nazi’s “non-prophecy guys,” AJ? What does that mean anyways? Kamala might be that kind of a gal.

    While you sort that out I wonder if you can multitask and figure out how “ Few people minimize it by claiming that it was only a few thousand out of 60M Germans” became the second dumbest thing you have written here.

    BuDuh (4214e4)

  113. As I’ve said before, if Trump hadn’t insulted McCain by calling him a loser for being captured, he might have voted differently.

    As I’ve said before, if McCain was an actual patriot and not a little girl who puts his own pride above the welfare of the nation, he would have voted differently. But McCain refused to be the bigger man and let petty slights cloud his judgement.

    SaveFarris (79ab12)

  114. Funny, that right-wingers aren’t condemning Trump’s Hitler sympathies but instead are lambasting the timing of the guy who called it out.
    This is MAGA Tribal Partisan Brain right here folks, that Kelly is the guy dismissed but the fascist isn’t.

    Paul Montagu (7d8750)

  115. is it better or worse than the calling out of Biden’s mental decline?

    “WHaTAboUTisM!!!!!”

    As Joe pointed out above, why were the trusted nation-saving generals so quiet? I’m guessing they knew sometime around when Paul and George Will figured it out.

    BuDuh (4214e4)

  116. Paul,

    your protests might mean more if you uttered one peep about the party that puts Mao Christmas bulbs on the tree at the White House.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  117. your protests might mean more if you uttered one peep about the party that puts Mao Christmas bulbs on the tree at the White House.

    Ah, the old immature “how come you didn’t say something about that!” line, about a thing that happened 15 years ago. Didn’t work with Dana, don’t work with me.
    The fact is that you don’t know what I’ve written about before 2018, but I criticized Obama on issues that were actually significant, almost daily, not silly childish stuff like Christmas ornaments.

    Paul Montagu (7d8750)

  118. I know you trolled Hot Air, I know you lived at the leftist site the Forvum because you said so yourself. But continue trolling moby.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  119. @115

    Funny, that right-wingers aren’t condemning Trump’s Hitler sympathies but instead are lambasting the timing of the guy who called it out.

    Paul, I condemn Hitler sympathies in anyone. I also condemn Godwin’s Law inspired accusations intended to influence an election, whether the target is Bush, Dick Cheney, Romney or Trump.

    What’s funny is that Nevertrump will condemn it only when it’s Trump, and is only offended by words instead of actions. Prosecuting and convicting political opponents, inciting assassination attempts, voting for a Socialist with help from a foreign Socialist party, calling everyone who disagrees with you a fascist… is this inspired by Hitler, or Putin?

    lloyd (da22b3)

  120. https://x.com/IAPolls2022/status/1849258001951080535

    Is the panic setting in yet? All the hate, all the hyperbole, and it hasn’t worked.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  121. Rob, caution. Despite Nevertrump’s best unintentional efforts to throw support to Trump, I’m still predicting red wave part 2.

    lloyd (da22b3)

  122. @98

    So you take the word of a serial compulsive liar over that of a career Marine General
    lurker (c23034) — 10/23/2024 @ 11:34 pm

    Let me stop you there.

    This is a classic case of “appeal to authority” that need to be recognized.

    Generals, you know… the ones who earns the stars, are the most political actors in the military.

    For good reasons too.

    They have to work with politicians, and they don’t get their stars without playing the political games.

    So, no, I don’t take Gen. Kelly’s words at face value, because he’s a politician.

    It’s suspect because:
    a) It only appears to be brought up in the run-ups of the election.
    b) It appears to only be he said, he said type scenario.
    c) There’s no other corroboration, which is strange as the Orange Cheeto can’t keep his mouth shut on just about any other topics. He’s a compulsive blabber mouth.
    d) Other not-Trumpers, publicly I would add, including Mark Esper, has said they’ve never heard Trump say the things Kelly is reporting.
    e) Making the case that Trump’s a secret Nazi admirer flies in the face that:
    i. he has Jewish children and grand children
    ii. he moved US embassy to Jerusalem against all conventional wisdom
    iii. his administration was instrumental in creation of the Abraham Accords
    iv. his administration recognized the golan height under Israel’s sovereignty
    v. there’s zero doubt that the Trump admin was a greater friend of Israel

    What we’re seeing, I think, is confirmation bias on your part. You WANT to believe it because it simply “fits” in your view.

    I don’t think I can change your mind on this, but I want you to be aware that I’m pointing out a possible confirmation bias on your part to see if you can shake it.

    In short, Kelly was fired for a lot of reasons, but the most damning I remember was that he routinely ignored or countermanded directives from Trump. In 2021, Kelly was still hocking his book, in which he shared this ‘nazi generals’ story and it fell flat because it simply looked like a subordinate with an ax to grind. And, now, it’s resurfacing because Democrats and allies are trying to gin up another “October Surprise” and it’s pathetic.

    whembly (477db6)

  123. I’m honestly curious about what it would actually take for Trump defenders/voters here to reject him? What’s your red line? Is there anything that would just be beyond the pale for you?
    Dana (6e8dc3) — 10/23/2024 @ 2:08 pm

    If he vowed to appoint left wing judges, if he demonstrated an unwillingness to make our border security a top priority, if he compared ICE to the KKK, if he he tried to put his opposition in prison, if he incited assassination attempts, just for starters… I’d drop him like a 16 ton weight.

    lloyd (da22b3)

  124. Rob, you don’t know what you’re talking about.
    I was the resident conservative at Tacitus and The Forvm, and I was one of inaugural writers at RedState. Josh Trevino is a conservative who founded Tacitus, a conservative site, and who also co-founded RedState.
    At The Forvm, the content of the posts was conservative, because I wrote more posts than the rest of the contributors combined, well over a thousand that took Obama to task over a 9-year period. A majority of the commenters and a few contributors were left-of-center, and that’s the extent of it.

    At HotAir, I didn’t troll there, but you trolled me, lying that I supported Hillary.

    It’s pretty funny, that a right-wing asshole like you is throwing smears around, using stupid and lying terms like “trolling” and “moby”, while you’re conveying nonsense like “where were you in 2009, and why didn’t you stand up and call out light bulbs!”
    This has truly become Bizarro World.

    As I see it, Trump is the greater evil, so I’m focusing my attention on that, and have been doing so since the Golden Escalator. I’ve known who he was for decades.
    When Obama was prez, I focused my attention on him, for the same reason, that he was the greater evil, and posted accordingly.

    Trump isn’t a conservative, he’s a right-winger and, by his own words, a fascist. He attempted a coup. By all rights, a fascist who tried to
    illegally overturn a legitimate, free and fair election should be enough. His political career should’ve been dead.
    But this is Bizarro World, where people on the Right became bewitched and/or intimidated by a con man and bully.

    But on top of that, he’s a court-adjudicated rapist, liar and fraud. He’s an aged 78-year old bully with a vengeance streak in obvious mental decline, with all the traits of malignant narcissism. He’s a twice-impeached convicted felon, awaiting sentencing, and still under three indictments. He doesn’t have the character to not cheat on all of his wives. He can’t express his stands on policy for longer than a sentence yet will wax about Arnold Palmer for a dozen minutes. At practically every level, he’s unfit for the job…physically, mentally, intellectually, morally, fiscally, temperamentally, spiritually. This is your standard-bearer, Rob, and it’s worse than pathetic.

    In my opinion, America will be less worse off with his opponent in charge, mainly because there will a GOP-majority Senate (I don’t know how the House will turn out) and 6-3 conservative majority in our highest court. America has not descended into a Venezuelan hellhole after 8 years of Obama and 4 years of Biden, and won’t do so under 4 years of Kamala. May God help us all.

    Paul Montagu (7d8750)

  125. I also condemn Godwin’s Law inspired accusations intended to influence an election, whether the target is Bush, Dick Cheney, Romney or Trump.

    lloyd, this is different. Trump himself invoked Godwin’s law, by his own words. He said that Hitler did some good things, and that he wanted generals like Hitler’s. At least two people in the room heard him say that. He hosted a couple of Nazi sympathizers for dinner at Mar-A-Lago.

    Is this where this party has gone, that it’s okay to have a Hitler sympathizer and fascist as president as long as he’ll appoint conservative judges and mass-deport illegals?

    Paul Montagu (7d8750)

  126. mainly because there will a GOP-majority Senate

    I know you can count on Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski…

    BuDuh (4214e4)

  127. It’s as if there isn’t 60-vote cloture and no institutionalists on both sides of the aisle who adamantly oppose killing what’s left of the filibuster.

    Paul Montagu (7d8750)

  128. whembly — #123

    It’s suspect because:
    a) It only appears to be brought up in the run-ups of the election.
    b) It appears to only be he said, he said type scenario.
    c) There’s no other corroboration, which is strange as the Orange Cheeto can’t keep his mouth shut on just about any other topics. He’s a compulsive blabber mouth.
    d) Other not-Trumpers, publicly I would add, including Mark Esper, has said they’ve never heard Trump say the things Kelly is reporting.
    e) Making the case that Trump’s a secret Nazi admirer flies in the face that:
    i. he has Jewish children and grand children
    ii. he moved US embassy to Jerusalem against all conventional wisdom
    iii. his administration was instrumental in creation of the Abraham Accords
    iv. his administration recognized the golan height under Israel’s sovereignty
    v. there’s zero doubt that the Trump admin was a greater friend of Israel

    You have some flaws in your argument:

    1. Kelly’s comments about Trump and admiration for Germany has been reported before. (If your read the Atlantic article, you get the impression this is old news repackaged for a headline — rather than much NEW reporting.) It may be sour grapes on his part — but it does tally with comments Ivana Trump made beack in the day about Trump’s love for Mein Kampf. Not determinative.

    2. Kelly may be he said/she said in nature, but those comments are consistent with the “enemey of the people”, “enemies within”, “poisoning the blood” commentary offered by Trump. It’s not offered in a vacuum.

    3. I take this point — but Trump is not completely unable to conceal things.

    4. See #2. Some things by their nature are he said/she said.

    5. I don’t think the argument is Trump’s a Nazi — it’s that he wishes he had generals that were strictly obedient to him rather than the Constitution — like Trump thinks Hitler’s general’s were. Trump is not an anti-semite as far as I can tell. He just wants to be obeyed and not face consequences for subjecting the country to his impulses and grievances. Trump doesn’t want to be Hitler; he wants to be Mussolini.

    Appalled (12da32)

  129. @126 Paul, I hope the party never goes to where the Democrats are, which is prosecuting opponents and inciting assassins, and the other fascist adjacent actions I listed. While you carry on about words….

    lloyd (493fec)

  130. #122 lloyd:

    Just curious — why are you thinking it’s the return of the 2022 red wave that wasn’t. That tallies with my own thinking — based on my belief the polls rely too much on assumptions and small self-selected data sets.

    Appalled (12da32)

  131. @131 Mail in voting has enabled low information low energy voters, who lean left, and IMO caused polls to be biased for R when previously they were biased against.

    lloyd (493fec)

  132. > Trump is not an anti-semite as far as I can tell. He just wants to be obeyed and not face consequences for subjecting the country to his impulses and grievances. Trump doesn’t want to be Hitler; he wants to be Mussolini.

    Or, perhaps, Octavian — someone who can replace the Republic with a system that concentrates power in the hands of a single family but preserves Republican *forms* as a meaningless formality.

    It’s *so clear* that this is the way he thinks about the world that Republican support for him makes it seem like Republicans are ok with that outcome as long as he pursues their policy preferences. (Never mind that they would have no way to bind him or his heirs).

    aphrael (8c9441)

  133. > you’ve chosen to line up on the left with those who have clearly stated that they don’t support the Constitution and consider it an obstacle to their goals.

    > Your presidential and VP candidates have spoken about destroying the 1st and 2nd Amendments.

    And yet neither of them is advocating sending the US military to round up American citizens, on American soil, based on nothing other than the fact that the President has declared them to be “enemies within” — something that Trump is *openly advocating*.

    Where do you stand on this subject, NJ Rob?

    Do you:

    (a) think that Trump is being hyperbolic and wouldn’t actually do it?

    (b) think that someone in government will step in and prevent it when he tries?

    (c) think that nobody will prevent it but it’s an acceptable price to pay to avoid some other evil outcome?

    (d) think that nobody will prevent it and it’s a good thing that should happen?

    aphrael (8c9441)

  134. A) As previously shown, none of this is new. This came out in 1990, 2020, 2021
    B) Stupid Hitler likes half of the tenets of lebensraum, replace Jew with “brown people”
    C) In Variety in 1990 Trump talks about getting Mein Kampf (it wasn’t, it was the collected works of Hitler’s speeches, he’s always been stupid)
    D) His wife specifically said he reads the book and it’s by his bed

    It took about 30 seconds of GoogleFu to only find instances from 1970-2021.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  135. @129 Appalled (12da32) — 10/24/2024 @ 8:58 am

    https://hotair.com/david-strom/2024/10/24/general-kelly-if-you-knew-trump-admired-hitler-why-did-you-not-resign-n3796180

    Here’s the point:

    Either that man is lying, or he is a moral monster who knowingly worked for a Nazi.

    So your star witness is a man who admits he would work for a Nazi. Good luck with that.

    I don’t see how anyone can refute this.

    whembly (477db6)

  136. aphrael (8c9441) — 10/24/2024 @ 10:05 am

    Funny that the worst case scenarios are actions that Nevertrump has already done.

    Peter Navarro was in prison a couple of months ago. Steve Bannon is in prison now. Is the fact they didn’t get a sweetheart deal, like Hunter originally did, because they didn’t merit it like him?

    lloyd (493fec)

  137. I don’t think Trump has the inclination nor ability to use troops domestically for anything other than a parade. He’s a showman.

    We have his track record for 4 years and it took COVID and a heap of questionable regulations changing voting to beat him.

    His 4 years were far better for our nation than the last 4.

    NJRob (19ab23)

  138. OK, so you think he’s being hyperbolic and wouldn’t actually do it.

    So then the next two questions are: how is anyone supposed to differentiate his hyperbole from his actual intent, and can you understand why other people would use a different set of rules for that differentiation than you do?

    aphrael (8c9441)

  139. lloyd,

    Navarro and Bannon were both imprisoned for the crime of _contempt of congress_, which has been a crime recognized in American law *since the Revolutionary period* and which has repeatedly been upheld by the Supreme Court. furthermore, neither of them were *rounded up by the US military*.

    it’s not the same thing at all as what Trump is advocating.

    so now i’ll ask you the same thing I asked NJRob.

    Trump is openly advocating using the US military to round up US citizens inside the US based upon nothing other than his declaration that they are “enemies within”.

    Do you:

    (a) think that Trump is being hyperbolic and wouldn’t actually do it?

    (b) think that someone in government will step in and prevent it when he tries?

    (c) think that nobody will prevent it but it’s an acceptable price to pay to avoid some other evil outcome?

    (d) think that nobody will prevent it and it’s a good thing that should happen?

    aphrael (8c9441)

  140. Track record and it’s a 3rd party quote out of context.

    NJRob (19ab23)

  141. No problem them, he’s only playing stupid Hitler for the lolz.

    He’s only joking about rounding up Americans with the military to imprison them.

    Sure, that’s cool, now imagine it was Ronald Reagan.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  142. how is anyone supposed to differentiate his hyperbole from his actual intent

    As Nic at 12:22am explained:

    most[99.9%*] of those 74 million had better sense to show up to his rally and follow his insurrection directives.

    *I am pretty sure I asked you to do the math as well and you didn’t for some reason. Maybe it was so you can spread unnecessary fear?

    BuDuh (4214e4)

  143. Perhaps if the left hasn’t been screaming like banshees for the past 50 years calling everyone Hitler who is a white supremacist it would be easier to take them seriously.

    Instead, we know it’s just more of the same because leftist policies are directly harmful to the American people.

    NJRob (19ab23)

  144. I wonder how much it cost Trump to have Epstein killed when he was president? Oh, all the Epstein stuff is coming out weeks before the 2024 election. It never came out in…2002…2015…2016…2017…2018…2019…

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  145. “I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy, he’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life.”

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  146. Nah, never knew him.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  147. Nope, not a fascist-a populist political philosophy, movement, or regime✔️(such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual✔️, that is associated with a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader✔️, and that is characterized by severe economic and social regimentation✔️ and by forcible suppression of opposition✔️

    Well, when you use the definitions, sure, but it’s Trump so it’s OK, he’ll probably not do it.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  148. Did Harris go to the a white party?

    Trump did.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  149. @140

    lloyd,

    Navarro and Bannon were both imprisoned for the crime of _contempt of congress_, which has been a crime recognized in American law *since the Revolutionary period* and which has repeatedly been upheld by the Supreme Court. furthermore, neither of them were *rounded up by the US military*.


    aphrael (8c9441) — 10/24/2024 @ 10:36 am

    Cool.

    Care to show me where you advocated here, or elsewhere that Lois Lerner, Eric Holder & Merrick Garland should’ve had a trial, convicted and imprisoned?

    I’ll wait patiently….

    whembly (477db6)

  150. He’s only joking about rounding up Americans with the military to imprison them.

    Sure, that’s cool, now imagine it was Ronald Reagan.

    “We begin bombing in 5 minutes…”

    SaveFarris (79ab12)

  151. So Trump hangs with the rapists, I mean metaphysically he’s always with one, and sex traffickers, but it’s OK because the lady tweetered about one of them once.

    It’s the same on the scale of 0 to 1, 0 being unaware to aware at 1, they’re the same.

    Oh, out of a hundred it’s 1 vs 99.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  152. Stupid Hitler, rapist, conman, fraud, traitor…but but but he sure makes all of those folks so mad at him, so he’s cool, for the lolz.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  153. Farris, if you were alive then, you’d remember the context. Sentences were before and after.

    I know, the context for stupid Hitler is he’s stupid and impotent so him being serious about is the same as an one time obvious joke.

    Trump has been doubling, tripling, quadrupling down, since it’s fundamentally part of his standard stump speech.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  154. You know the context for “stupid Hitler”? You were there? Surely, you have audio, right?

    Just admit you got caught on this one. I’m not going to ask you to renounce everything you’ve ever said about Trump. (yet.) Just that you got over your skis on this one.

    SaveFarris (79ab12)

  155. Yeah, came from Kevin.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  156. Again, imagine Reagan praising Hitler (for decades), seriously talking about locking up his detractors. Not even the rapes, the perpetual lies, the cons, just the Hitler love.

    I understand the tendency for MAGAts to play squirrel, ignore the question and look at this other thing not like that, but again, again. Stupid Hitler.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  157. I don’t get the Hitler fasciation.
    Why pick the third greatest killer of all time.
    Why not Mao or Stalin?

    Joe (584b3d)

  158. Who’s more famous, when examining stupid Hitler’s fascinations, it’s always the answer.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  159. @159

    I don’t get the Hitler fasciation.
    Why pick the third greatest killer of all time.
    Why not Mao or Stalin?

    Joe (584b3d) — 10/24/2024 @ 12:15 pm

    Because the progressive left has always been commie-curious.

    whembly (477db6)

  160. @140

    Trump is openly advocating using the US military to round up US citizens inside the US based upon nothing other than his declaration that they are “enemies within”.

    aphrael, I guess I missed the quote to that effect. I’m not going to accept your rendering. Could you repeat it with a link?

    Navarro and Bannon were both imprisoned for the crime of _contempt of congress_, which has been a crime recognized in American law *since the Revolutionary period* and which has repeatedly been upheld by the Supreme Court.

    It’s been a crime committed by many, most of whom did not go to prison. Thanks to Nevertrump, we’re now a nation of laws we choose to enforce, against those we choose to enforce it against.

    If you’re really concerned about citizens being rounded up, actions like this should bother you before mere words do.

    lloyd (493fec)

  161. @158

    Again, imagine Reagan praising Hitler

    Yeah, imagine. You’d be calling him a Nazi just like all the leftists were at the time.

    lloyd (7e02d9)

  162. > Track record and it’s a 3rd party quote out of context

    No, it’s not a third party quote, and it’s not out of context.

    aphrael (b2bc4c)

  163. Please point me to Reagan doing the thing, praising Hitler. He visited a cemetery and said:

    These [SS troops] were the villains, as we know, that conducted the persecutions and all. But there are 2,000 graves there, and most of those, the average age is about 18. I think that there’s nothing wrong with visiting that cemetery where those young men are victims of Nazism also, even though they were fighting in the German uniform, drafted into service to carry out the hateful wishes of the Nazis. They were victims, just as surely as the victims in the concentration camps.

    Even in your justification link, the reality shatters the illusion.

    stupid is as stupid does.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  164. You see, Reagan is denigrating Nazi’s, stupid Hitler is praising them, there’s a small difference.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  165. @168 The point, of course, is that none of that mattered to the leftist mob then and you would’ve been right there with them.

    lloyd (493fec)

  166. @165 Thanks, aphrael. I’ll listen and comment after.

    lloyd (493fec)

  167. Aphrael,

    he’s talking about violence this election day and telling the current government to shut it down.

    NJRob (19ab23)

  168. For MAGAts, Trump always means something different than the words he says. It must be frustrating that he then repeats and specifically identifies the “enemy’s within”.

    Oh, you’ve never seen him say it, nope, never, “please provide a link”.

    Do your own f-ing homework.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  169. @172

    Do your own f-ing homework.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 10/24/2024 @ 1:11 pm

    Keep clutching your pearls Klinky… it’ll get better some day.

    whembly (477db6)

  170. Nobody’s “family jewels” are safe when Trump is within arm reach.

    nk (7c7790)

  171. Only Trump could get Harris elected President. The last thing she would want is him dead.

    Democrats generally, as well. Trump is their biggest vote-getter.

    nk (7c7790)

  172. Democrats are, which is prosecuting opponents and inciting assassins, and the other fascist adjacent actions I listed.

    “Prosecuting opponents and inciting assassins” is silly talk. Menendez was convicted by Garland. There was no “inciting”, because the “assassins” were mental cases. There’s no reasoning with this bunk.

    Paul Montagu (7d8750)

  173. Could a person of good character work in a government headed by the Loser? Sure. In fact, some did, and managed to reduce the damage the Loser did to our health, our economy, our morals, and our security. I am grateful for their service.

    What no one of good character should do is lie for the Loser. Let him be his own press secretary.

    Jim Miller (f894da)

  174. Oh, you’ve never seen him say it, nope, never, “please provide a link”.

    Provide a link to someone NOT saying something? That’s fair.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  175. Could a person of good character work in a government headed by the Loser? Sure. In fact, some did, and managed to reduce the damage the Loser did to our health, our economy, our morals, and our security.

    Sadly, no one did that for Biden. Starting with outing his senility before the primaries.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  176. Mailbox set on fire in phoenix ballots damaged. (DU) Last few days corporate democrats on msDNC going crazy with hitler talk. The left waits patiently to take over democrat party.

    asset (f721eb)

  177. @buduh@102, 104 You seriously meant actual diagramming? Actual diagramming isn’t a reading for comprehension exercise. And almost all of them had better sense, but enough didn’t that it caused a major incidence of violence against the legislature. That he tried at all is a major problem.

    (sorry, unless I’m off I don’t generally post between 12:30 AM and at least 5:00 PM.)

    Nic (120c94)

  178. Pathetic. Why would anyone who hears this supposed garbage from Trump even stick around? They wouldn’t. This sensationalizing by haters and wishful thinking by haters is way over the top and pathetic.

    Rich Wetmore (c73281)

  179. America is a garbage can.

    Trump: We’re like a garbage can for the world pic.twitter.com/E154bohRxv— Acyn (@Acyn) October 24, 2024

    All those people want to come to the garbage can?

    stupid Hitler, great American.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  180. “You have no idea what I did in the White House, I stopped wars with France. France, you know the France story. They were going to charge us, think of this, 25 percent . I have to protect American companies whether we like ‘em or not.”

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  181. Pollsters are either re-waiting polls to prevent undercounting trump voters or harris/walz are in deep trouble!

    asset (d36645)

  182. Maybe another 1980 where moderate democrat senators (are their any other kind for the most part?) get wiped out. If it wasn’t for abortion issue corporate democrats would be run out on a rail!

    asset (d36645)

  183. Calling your opponent a fascist when slipping in the polls is irresponsible after 2 assassination attempts. You can’t complain about January 6th and then recreate it.

    It’s wrong for the campaign and for the country.

    — Mark Penn (@Mark_Penn) October 25, 2024

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  184. Here’s the problem with this story…

    We’re now up to three single-sourced anti-Trump stories, one of which has already fallen apart, in two days from the same media outlets that said they couldn’t report Hunter Biden’s laptop story because they couldn’t independently verify it.

    The double-standards here is obvious and absolutely ridiculous.

    During Kelly’s brief tenure in the Trump admin, Kelly was caught lying about congresswoman Frederica Wilson and his aide Rob Porter, and he further admitted to lying about child-separation policies and the travel ban on terrorist states. But now he’s a paragon of honesty?

    Confirmation bias is at work here, and I hope ya’ll can see that. You don’t have to come back here and publicly agree with me. I think you already know this.

    Here’s someone who worked with Kelly in the administration (and he’s not the only one providing detailed examples):

    @MarkPaoletta
    I worked in the White House with John Kelly, and I don’t believe a word he says. He was a terrible chief of staff who dishonestly kept information from the President to pursue his own agenda, an unelected former military official substituting his judgment for the duly elected President. Here are two examples:

    1) In 2018, President Trump asked OMB Director Mulvaney to find money in agency accounts to build the wall to secure our southern border. Mulvaney asked OMB Deputy Russ Vought and me as OMB GC to do a deep dive on this project, and with the help of superb career staff, we found a ton of money at the DOD that we could use to build the wall.

    But Kelly prevented Mulvaney from presenting this plan to President Trump. Several months later, in a meeting, Trump said “Mick, I asked you to find me money and you haven’t.” Mulvaney responded “I found the money but I have not been able to brief you.” Kelly would not set up policy time for Mulvaney to discuss the plan with Trump.

    After this exchange, Mulvaney presented the plan and the President authorized this strategy. John Kelly was insubordinate and duplicitous by refusing to provide the President with lawful options to implement the President’s policies.

    2) Because of the manner in which the Election Integrity Commission was set up, I wanted to have the President shut it down and direct the DOJ to investigate election fraud. At the time, I was the Counsel to VP Pence, who was the co-chair of the commission, and I had developed a list of previous presidential directives to DOJ to investigate a specific matter so that when making this recommendation I could show it was well supported by history and tradition.

    In a meeting with Kelly and others, I made this recommendation and shared the list of examples of Presidents directing DOJ to engage on specific matters. Kelly said he would never show this list to the President because it would be terrible if President Trump knew he could do this, his life was tough enough in dealing with the President, and he did not want him to know this. To my knowledge, President Trump was never made aware of these examples.

    John Kelly thought he knew better than President Trump and was opposed to many of his policies. As Chief of Staff, Kelly dishonestly tried to thwart President Trump’s policies, and on the wall funding he was totally fine with not doing everything possible to stop illegal aliens flooding into our country and murdering innocent Americans, all in order to protect the bloated bureaucracy of his DOD.

    John Kelly will say anything to stop President Trump from being re-elected. It won’t work.

    Vote Trump Vance 2024.

    whembly (3959d2)

  185. Penn and others are wrong. Trump called himself a fascist, and his saying he’d use the National Guard or military to “handle” his political “enemies” was his clearest expression of that fascism.
    The problem is what Trump said in his own words, not the people calling him out for what he’s said and done.

    Here are 17 Trump ex-employees who served in his presidency, who’ve seen him operate up close and personal. Are they all wrong?Mark Milley, CJCOS, who also said Trump is a “fascist to the core”:

    “We don’t take an oath to a country. We don’t take an oath to a tribe. We don’t take an oath to a religion. We don’t take an oath to a king or a queen, or to a tyrant or a dictator. And we don’t take an oath to a wannabe dictator.”

    Richard Spencer, SecNav:

    “The president has very little understanding of what it means to be in the military, to fight ethically or to be governed by a uniform set of rules and practices.”

    H.R. McMaster, NSA, who Trump said looked like a beer salesman:

    “President Trump and other officials have repeatedly compromised our principles in pursuit of partisan advantage and personal gain.”

    James “Mad Dog” Mattis, who also said, “Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet”:

    “Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people — does not even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us. We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society.”

    Mark Esper, SecDef:

    “I have a lot of concerns about Donald Trump. I have said that he’s a threat to democracy. I think the last year, certainly the last few months of Donald Trump’s presidency, will look like the first few months of the next one if that were to occur.”

    John Kelly, former Chief of Staff, who also heard Trump say that “Hitler did some good things” and wanted generals like Hitler’s:

    “A person who admires autocrats and murderous dictators. A person that has nothing but contempt for our democratic institutions, our Constitution and the rule of law.”

    Elaine Chao, SecTrans, and Trump is the racist who called her “Coco Chow”:

    “I think the events at the Capitol, however they occurred, were shocking. And it was something that, as I mentioned in my statement, that I could not put aside.”

    Alex Azar, HHS Secretary:

    “Unfortunately, the actions and rhetoric following the election, especially during this past week, threaten to tarnish these and other historic legacies of this administration. The attacks on the Capitol were an assault on our democracy and on the tradition of peaceful transitions of power that the United States of America first brought to the world.”

    Rex Tillerson, SecState, who often attached “f-cking” to “moron”:

    “Moron,” Mr. Tillerson reportedly said of Mr. Trump.

    Dan Coats, DNI:

    “It’s more than just a bunch of papers and what big deal is this and so forth. Lives can be lost.”

    Betsy DeVos, SecEd:, putting it mildly:

    “I didn’t feel he did what he needed to do to stop what was happening.”

    Mick Mulvaney, Acting Chief of Staff:

    “It will always be, ‘Oh, yeah, you work for the guy who tried to overtake the government.’”

    Bill Barr, AG, the hypocrite who’s still voting for Trump:

    “The fact of the matter is he is a consummate narcissist and he constantly engages in reckless conduct that puts his political followers at risk and the conservative and Republican agenda at risk. … He will always put his own interest and gratifying his own ego ahead of everything else, including the country’s interest. There’s no question about it. … He’s like a 9-year-old, a defiant 9-year-old kid, who’s always pushing the glass toward the edge of the table defying his parents to stop him from doing it.”

    John Bolton, NSA, who resigned shortly after Trump proposed inviting terrorists to Camp David:

    “I was convinced he was not fit to be president. … I think it is a danger for the United States if he gets a second term.”

    Mike Pompeo, SecState, the hypocrite who’s still voting for Trump:

    “We need more seriousness, less noise, and leaders who are looking forward, not staring in the rearview mirror claiming victimhood.”

    Mike Pence, VP, man of principle, eventually:

    “He asked me to put him over the Constitution and I chose the Constitution, and I always will.”

    Nikki Haley, UN Ambassador, the hypocrite who’s still voting for Trump:

    “He went down a path he shouldn’t have, and we shouldn’t have followed him and we shouldn’t have listened to him. And we can’t let that ever happen again.”

    With any other candidate, this level of condemnation from so many high-level officials would leave a candidate’s campaign a smoking crater, but this is a personality cult, beholden to a con man.

    Paul Montagu (7d8750)

  186. The Sad, Pathetic Spectacle of John Kelly’s Critics.

    There is something deeply pernicious to this routine. These people want you to forget the cumulative weight of the accusations against Trump, especially when those accusations are coming from his own former employees—many of them high-ranking military officers. They’re doing so not because they don’t believe the accusations but because they know how harmful they could be.

    You know how we know this? Because the claims of Kelly and others are backed up by what we’ve seen with our own eyes over the last nine years.

    Are we supposed to be skeptical that Trump called soldiers “suckers” and “losers” when he said as much out loud about John McCain?

    Are we supposed to be skeptical that he praised Hitler’s generals when he admires dictators, dined with white supremacist Nick Fuentes, calls people “vermin,” and talks about immigrants “poisoning the blood” of America?

    Are we supposed to believe he bears no responsibility for January 6th when we all watched him summon a mob and sic it on the Capitol?

    Are we supposed to believe that this is all about some personal tiff between Kelly and Trump when so many others have so many similar accounts?
    […]
    I have another idea: Why don’t we accept the obvious truth that is staring us in the face? Trump is dangerous and unfit and all the responsible people who served in his last term have told us as much.
    […]
    Trump’s defenders want us to doubt what we have seen with our own eyes and heard with our own ears. They want us to treat a White House chief of staff confirming that the former president praised Hitler and called members of the military “suckers and losers” as just another bit of campaign fodder—not evidence of something fundamentally rotten at the core of their movement. If we allow that to happen, it will be a stain on our politics akin to electing Trump himself.

    Paul Montagu (7d8750)

  187. @190

    Trump called himself a fascist, and his saying he’d use the National Guard or military to “handle” his political “enemies” was his clearest expression of that fascism.

    Paul, you treat every Trump quote like it’s silly putty.

    He was responding to a question:

    “What are you expecting? Joe Biden says he doesn’t think it will be a peaceful election day.”

    If there is a repeat of Jan6, Nevertrump would be the loudest advocates for a military response. Nevertrump rhetoric about “threat to democracy” and “fascists” show how they have regarded Trump supporters as the enemy within for eight years running.

    lloyd (d006b9)

  188. Trump told Lesley Stahl his strategy for dealing with the press, and it has worked in spades.

    Stahl described going to meet with him at Trump Tower in the months before the interview, along with one of her bosses, whom she did not name. After Trump began to unload on the news media, she said, she asked him whether he planned to stop attacking the press, which was a hallmark of his campaign.

    “I said, you know that is getting tired, why are you doing this — you’re doing it over and over and it’s boring,” Stahl said. “He said you know why I do it? I do it to discredit you all and demean you all, so when you write negative stories about me no one will believe you.”

    Granted, the press has made many mistakes, but there’s a double standard that applies both to the media and Trump’s political adversaries where, to paraphrase Van Jones, Trump gets to be lawless while his detractors have to be flawless.

    NPR has outlined the breadth of Trump’s bullying fascist ways with the press.

    Even so, a new survey of hundreds of journalists who received safety training from the International Women’s Media Foundation finds 36% say they have faced or been threatened with physical violence on the job — and they have felt especially threatened at Trump campaign rallies.

    “Journalists reported feeling at high risk while covering Trump rallies and ‘Stop the Steal’ protests, especially when some Trump supporters and protestors openly carry weapons,” the report states.

    While campaigning for Republican congressional candidates in 2022, Trump repeatedly pledged to jail reporters who don’t identify confidential sources on stories he considered to have national security implications.

    He joked that the prospect of prison rape would loosen reporters’ lips about their sources.

    “When this person realizes that he is going to be the bride of another prisoner shortly, he will say, ‘I’d very much like to tell you exactly who that was,'” Trump told an appreciative crowd at a Texas rally. And Trump said he wouldn’t limit it to the reporters: “The publisher too — or the top editors.” He made the same claim two weeks later at an Ohio rally.

    Remember the conservative outrage when Obama targeted FoxNews’ James Rosen as a co-conspirator in their investigation of a State Department leak? I do. I wrote about it, condemned Obama for his “creeping fascism” (especially after Snowden’s revelations), that his actions placed a “chilling effect” on our free press. That incident involved just one person. Trump’s quest for intimidation and vengeance is more widespread.

    Last year, Trump called for NBC News to be investigated for treason over its coverage of criminal charges he faces. After his lone debate with Vice President Harris this summer, it was ABC’s turn to face Trump’s wrath. Trump expressed anger over moderators’ decision to fact-check him. He popped up on Fox & Friends the next day with a warning.

    “I think ABC took a big hit last night,” Trump said. “I mean, to be honest, they’re a news organization. They have to be licensed to do it. They oughta take away their license for the way they do that.”

    This month, Trump has been back at it, slamming CBS repeatedly over its handling of the vice presidential debate and of the network’s interview with Harris on 60 Minutes. He pointed to two versions of an answer Harris had given — one that aired on 60 Minutes and the other on the show Face the Nation — to argue CBS was deceiving viewers to aid the Democrat.

    “Think of this,” Trump told attendees at a rally in Aurora, Colo., this month. “CBS gets a license. And a license is based on honesty. I think they have to take their license away. I do.”

    And on Sunday, Trump repeated his complaint to Fox News’ Howard Kurtz. “It’s the biggest scandal I have ever seen for a broadcaster,” Trump said. “60 Minutes, I think it should be taken off the air, frankly.”

    This isn’t me saying Trump is a fascist, Trump is saying he’s a fascist based on the words coming out of his own piehole. Don’t blame his detractors for pointing that out.

    Paul Montagu (7d8750)

  189. lloyd (d006b9) — 10/25/2024 @ 7:39 am

    Resorting to contentless hypotheticals ain’t a good look, lloyd.

    Paul Montagu (7d8750)

  190. Trump has already withheld federal aid because a governor didn’t bend the knee and kiss the ring, so there’s no reason to believe he wouldn’t continue this behavior. It’s un-American.

    Paul Montagu (7d8750)

  191. whembly —

    Your source material in #189 is outraged that Kelly did not empower Trump to commit the folly that led to January 6 back in 2018. Part of the job of a Chief of Staff is to protect the President from indulging his worst instincts.

    As for item 1 — this isn’t unusual for a Chief of Staff, though it strikes me as an overstep.

    Part of your elevator speech for Trump is that the system will keep him constrained from his worst instincts. Look what you and others are doing to people who try to accomplish that. Is it reasonable to believe that Trump 2.0 will be as tamed by his staff as Trump 1.0?

    Appalled (2cd3e2)

  192. Resorting to contentless hypotheticals ain’t a good look, lloyd.
    Paul Montagu (7d8750) — 10/25/2024 @ 8:04 am

    In contrast, Paul, misquoting someone for the umpteenth time is a great look. Don’t stop.

    lloyd (6f2cab)

  193. In contrast, Paul, misquoting someone for the umpteenth time is a great look. Don’t stop.

    “Umpteenth time”? Liar.

    Paul Montagu (7d8750)

  194. “Part of your elevator speech for Trump is that the system will keep him constrained from his worst instincts. Look what you and others are doing to people who try to accomplish that.”

    Shrewd observation. If you can look at J6 and come to the conclusion that it’s the Democrat’s fault in the method that they pursued for impeachment…while ignoring that there was no separate GOP leadership push for impeachment (or outcry from Republican voters)…then what confidence is there that enough Senators will ever have the backbone next time?

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

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