Beware the Tyrant
[guest post by Dana]
This is an excellent piece by Tom Nichols. Don’t miss it:
Last november, during a symposium at Mount Vernon on democracy, John Kelly, the retired Marine Corps general who served as Donald Trump’s second chief of staff, spoke about George Washington’s historic accomplishments—his leadership and victory in the Revolutionary War, his vision of what an American president should be. And then Kelly offered a simple, three-word summary of Washington’s most important contribution to the nation he liberated.
“He went home,” Kelly said.
The message was unambiguous. After leaving the White House, Kelly had described Trump as a “person that has no idea what America stands for and has no idea what America is all about.” At Mount Vernon, he was making a clear point: People who are mad for power are a mortal threat to democracy. They may hold different titles—even President—but at heart they are tyrants, and all tyrants share the same trait: They never voluntarily cede power.
. . .
Donald Trump and his authoritarian political movement represent an existential threat to every ideal that Washington cherished and encouraged in his new nation. They are the incarnation of Washington’s misgivings about populism, partisanship, and the “spirit of revenge” that Washington lamented as the animating force of party politics. Washington feared that, amid constant political warfare, some citizens would come to “seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual,” and that eventually a demagogue would exploit that sentiment.
People who are mad for power are a mortal threat to democracy. They may hold different titles, but at heart they are tyrants.
Today, America stands at such a moment. A vengeful and emotionally unstable former president—a convicted felon, an insurrectionist, an admirer of foreign dictators, a racist and a misogynist—desires to return to office as an autocrat. Trump has left no doubt about his intentions; he practically shouts them every chance he gets. His deepest motives are to salve his ego, punish his enemies, and place himself above the law. Should he regain the Oval Office, he may well bring with him the experience and the means to complete the authoritarian project that he began in his first term.
Trump is anything but “America first”. His interests have always been, and continue to be: promoting himself and the Trump Brand. And staying out of jail… This week we learned that Trump secretly sent Vladimir Putin some Abbott Point of Care Covid test machines meant for U.S. hospitals. This was during the pandemic when they were in short supply. Given Trump’s well known adoration of the murderous Putin, I have no trouble believing this. Additionally, Woodward also wrote that the former President had at least seven private phone calls with Putin after he was out of office. Question: What is a private American citizen who hopes to once again hold the most powerful position in the world doing talking to one of America’s leading enemies? How is a private citizen negotiating with the leader of a foreign government at war with our ally *not* a BIG problem? I mean, I’m not running for the vice-presidency but I’m pretty sure this isn’t insignificant, no matter what a Yale educated lawyer says:
JD Vance on Bob Woodward's reporting that Trump has had as many as 7 calls with Putin after he left office:
“Even if it's true, is there something wrong with speaking to world leaders? No. Is there anything wrong with engaging in diplomacy?” pic.twitter.com/d6dkoVI15b
— Republican Voters Against Trump (@AccountableGOP) October 8, 2024
Put this information together with what we already know and have witnessed of Trump’s self-interest and corruption, and we see an egregious display of disloyalty to the American people.
Unlike the esteemed George Washington, Trump is a man who would never, ever consider going home and staying there because he recognized his job was done and that others would now take the lead. Never would he refuse to hold on to an office that he did not believe belonged to him, because clearly, Trump continues to believe the office of the presidency does, in fact, belong to him.
I’ll leave you with this:
When Americans were dying by the hundreds, Trump was busy sending Covid test kits to Putin.
Americans died while Trump was appeasing a dictator. This is unforgivable.
Watch our new ad: pic.twitter.com/OpVMmZY6he
— Republican Voters Against Trump (@AccountableGOP) October 9, 2024
—Dana
Hello.
Dana (d0fdb4) — 10/9/2024 @ 6:29 pmOn another thread sending in federal troops to protect the election from sabotage was said to be disturbing. In ga. dumpsters demand hand count of votes so they can intimidate oldster volunteers. In Michigan dumpsters say they will refuse to certify results and now other states as well. Dumpsters say they will challenge mail in ballots and challenge in person voters to show proof of citizenship. (bad move as many black and latinx men planning to vote for trump.) In floriduh desatan sent out his thugs to intimidate voters who signed to put abortion rights on ballot trying to get them to recant. Their is plenty more like assaulting poll workers similar to 2020. (Numerous DU articles.) also rueters, NYT. ACLU and numerous other outlets. like new republic and msnbc. Just goole 2024 election sabotage plans.
asset (2230ef) — 10/9/2024 @ 7:30 pmBiden Harris releasing billions to the mullahs gets a pass, but Trump sending covid kits to Russia is appeasing a dictator and costing American lives. Nevertrump must be getting jittery.
lloyd (d006b9) — 10/9/2024 @ 8:00 pmGeorge Washington is not on the ballot.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 10/9/2024 @ 10:30 pmRepublican Voters Against Trump is yet another front for Bill Kristol and Mike Murphy.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 10/9/2024 @ 10:32 pmDamn but I am tired of partisans. What’s really funny is that #neverTrump doesn’t see themselves as partisan.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 10/9/2024 @ 10:33 pmBiden Harris releasing billions to the mullahs gets a pass, but Trump sending covid kits to Russia is appeasing a dictator and costing American lives.
One was done overtly, the other covertly.
I think Trump has denied doing it. Are you suggesting he’s not telling the truth?
norcal (175334) — 10/9/2024 @ 11:09 pm#neverTrump doesn’t see themselves as partisan
NeverTrump is for anyone who isn’t Trump or his mini-me (Ramaswamy). How is that partisan?
norcal (175334) — 10/9/2024 @ 11:10 pm@3 They should! If trump wins there without a party as the real left takes over the party and it will be 2018 crushing of corporate democrats. The donor class fears the left base more then they fear trump.
asset (2230ef) — 10/10/2024 @ 12:54 amThe flaw in that argument is that neither of the past 2 Democratic presidents have “gone home”. Both stayed in the Acela corridor manipulating power behind the scenes. (Biden will “go home”, but that’s only because he’s been clinically dead for the past 2 years.)
For his part, Trump has already said this campaign is his last and will indeed “go home”, either in November or 2029.
https://www.npr.org/2024/09/23/nx-s1-5123345/trump-wont-run-again-2028-election
SaveFarris (79ab12) — 10/10/2024 @ 5:06 amUh, being anti-Trump is “partisan”? By what definition of “partisan”? I’ve been an independent most of my adult life, and have a history of voting for candidates from both parties (and sometimes from a third), because I have a visceral disclike of crude partisan tribalism. My loathing of Trump is not partisan in any sense of that word. He is a megalomaniac, a sociopath, a criminal, a conman, an insurrectionist, an amoral piece of animate trash, and that is why I despise him. Partisanship has nothing to do with it. There are many Republicans for whom I have a great deal of respect, and would not hesitate to vote for (as long as they publicly and unambiguously disavow the Big Lie).
Roger (1f2f25) — 10/10/2024 @ 6:03 amI think, oftentimes, people mistake being a partisan for being a hack. I don’t mind if #nevertrump is doing partisan things (say, like concentrating on Trump rally sizes, making videos of Trump wierdness that have a slant).
Nonpartisan usually isn’t — it’s too often our betters thinking they know better. Or they have a pro-institution bias that is it’s own partisanship.
Appalled (6071a9) — 10/10/2024 @ 8:01 amI would like our Trump supporters to engage with this. It’s Geraldo Rivera (of all people):
Appalled (6071a9) — 10/10/2024 @ 8:38 amGeraldo ignores the one unforgivable thing that disqualifies Harris (and indeed nearly the entire Democratic party) from again serving. She has forced, coaxed, manipulated and intimidated tens of millions to become liars who pretend to believe that Trump was illegitimately elected in 2016 and that the election was stolen from Hillary.
However you justify voting for Harris, adopting that disproven big lie makes you a liar.
But don’t pretend that Hillary was robbed in 2016. That is a lie.
SaveFarris (79ab12) — 10/10/2024 @ 10:00 amIn this case I couldn’t care less about a “partisan” label. This is just another deflection from looking at what Trump did as exampled in the post and whether or not he is qualified to sit in the White House again.
Dana (3501db) — 10/10/2024 @ 10:03 amSaveFerris,
There are those who believe that Trump wasn’t legitimately elected in 2016. They were fringe — hardly 10s of millions, and I think the only thing that happened was a recount in Wisconsin requested by Jill Stein. FYI, there were similar efforts in 2004 (Bush stole Ohio using Diebold machines, claimed current Trump supporter RFK Jr.). And, of course, in 2000, some Democrats had a problem accepting Bush as the winner.
So, appreciate the effort, but that’s a pretty lame tu quoque. It doesn’t come close to answering/addressing the point.
Appalled (f24838) — 10/10/2024 @ 11:08 amSo Harris, Hillary, Jeffries, Raskin, Jayapal, Jimmy Carter, Maddow, Tapper, anyone who quoted Mueller approvingly, and “57% of adults 18-30” (per NBC news) are all “fringe”.
GOT IT!!!
SaveFarris (79ab12) — 10/10/2024 @ 11:44 amAt the very least, it was nice learning a little more about our first president, and it show how far gone this country has become in its leadership. The RCP averages show Trump with slight leads in PA and MI.
Paul Montagu (daaae2) — 10/10/2024 @ 12:01 pmNeverTrump is for anyone who isn’t Trump or his mini-me (Ramaswamy). How is that partisan?
Like I said.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 10/10/2024 @ 12:05 pmThis is just another deflection from looking at what Trump did as exampled in the post and whether or not he is qualified to sit in the White House again.
Alternatively, it is a way to avoid looking at anything else.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 10/10/2024 @ 12:08 pmAnd there are all kinds of tyrants. In many places they are boards and commission with amazing powers and little to no responsibility to those they “serve.”
In California they are things like the Coastal Commission, a committee of Greens controlling land use along the CA coast. Want to build a house on the coast (and you aren’t rich enough to fight the Commission), well, submit your plans and the best of luck.
In the news today is the state’s Air Resources Board, which is planning to issue Green guidelines on the state’s gasoline production that will likely add another 50 cents to a dollar (unclear) to the state’s already high gas prices (high, in part, due to their existing regulations).
https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2024-10-10/california-air-regulators-consider-hiking-gasoline-prices
Kevin M (a9545f) — 10/10/2024 @ 12:14 pmI am, obviously, a “double-hater” who will vote for neither of these Statists. What annoys me is the insistence of some that “all you have to know” is Trump’s actions on J6. Blinders.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 10/10/2024 @ 12:26 pmKevin M:
Trump’s actions on January 6 are just the culmination of a scheme to swipe an already lost election. That’s called a coup, and that really is all you have to know. This isn’t just about inaction while rioters are trying to sack the capitol and hang the vice president.
I take it personally because one of the votes Trump was trying to discard, torch, throw out, was mine. (The irony is that Trump cost the Senate not one but two likely Republican seats by hs behavior)
Appalled (f24838) — 10/10/2024 @ 12:40 pmTrump’s actions on January 6 are just the culmination of a scheme to swipe an already lost election.
One that could never, ever have worked. Lots of politicians try to do awful things that could never, ever work, like Biden’s attempt to raise taxes to 70%, eliminate capital gains treatment and tax people on paper income. I guess those are OK if it’s only someone else who’s affected.
But, never mind, all we have to look at is J6.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 10/10/2024 @ 12:46 pmAgain, all you have to know is that the bulk of Nevertrumpers wouldn’t vote for DeSantis or Vance or whatever hard conservative the GOP nominated. The “it’s only about J6” mantra is just nonsense.
lloyd (bb090f) — 10/10/2024 @ 1:06 pmIt’s true, and it wasn’t secret – at least it wasn’t classified even if maybe no press release was issued at the time, although it may have been underreported, and was largely missed.
This was printed in yesterday’s New York Times, Wednesday, Oct. 9, 2024 on page A17:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/08/us/politics/trump-putin-woodward-book.html
Putin told Trump, the Woodward book says, not for his sake (of course it was for his sake) but for Trump’s sake. Trump apparently did not announce it, but he didn’t classify it either.]
The New York Times links to this article in this Washington Examiner:
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/1118964/pompeo-tells-salena-zito-the-world-must-impose-costs-on-china-for-coronavirus
Anybody should understand that if limited supplies of U.S. manufactured tests (considered best) were given, priority would be given in Russia to VIPs, and
given Putin’s paranoia about catching Covid, that first priority would be given to Putin and anyone who came in to see him.
Today Trump’s supporters say something like: Hey Maybe it’s courtesies like that that are the reason why Putin didn’t invade Ukraine (actually invade further) while Trump was president!
Mike Pompeo didn’t say that in May 2020, but he did say to the Washington Examiner:
I don’t think it helps much. But while I don’t think that’s why Putin didn’t launch a big invasion of Ukraine in 2020, but I do think that, if he had been planning it, he would not have done it right at the same time he was receiving Covid tests for his personal use.
Hey, maybe give Kim Jong Un, exclusive previews of NBA basketball practice or autographed basketballs on condition he do nothing further with his nuclear weapons program..
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 10/10/2024 @ 1:28 pmJ6 is a significant part of the unspeakable evil which is Bughouse Donald even if only a portion of the totality of his corruption and depravity.
nk (bbefb2) — 10/10/2024 @ 1:30 pmDonald Trump was no Ferdinand Marcos, the United States in 2020-1 was not the Philippines in 1972.
There are so many more checks and balances.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 10/10/2024 @ 1:34 pmAppalled (f24838) — 10/10/2024 @ 12:40 pm
And then he lost a Senate seat again in 2022 by his choice of candidate, thinking people would be over-impressed by celebrity..
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 10/10/2024 @ 1:37 pm“One that could never, ever have worked.”
It doesn’t matter. The effort showed a callous disregard for so much, including the lives of the Capitol police, congressional staff, congressmen, and his supporters. But it showed utter disdain for the rule of law and what is the required process for challenging results. The process does not include inciting a riot, pressuring your VP to engage a ridiculous interpretation of the Constitution, and having Senators and state delegations willing to back your play. Because it was a bad plan does not absolve him of breaking the law and committing multiple felonies. There are lots of people in prison for burglaries and frauds that were poorly planned.
Trump has corrupted our election system by sowing doubt….along with his complicit media and Republican enablers. And he continues to lie about it and sow doubt about the legitimacy of the current election. This is a horrible attack on our system…by someone who appears to have had multiple contacts with our chief geopolitical foe. Continuing to ho-hum this is mind boggling. There is nothing here remotely equivalent. The National Vote Compact can be legally challenged and found deficient. We have millions of people who have been misled about the integrity of our system and appear willing to engage in more violence if they don’t get their way.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 10/10/2024 @ 2:13 pmLook at what??
Dana (eabbff) — 10/10/2024 @ 2:29 pmSome days it doesn’t seem so obvious.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2024 @ 2:46 pmSome days it doesn’t seem so obvious.
Pot, meet kettle.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 10/10/2024 @ 2:50 pmLook at what??
Like I said.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 10/10/2024 @ 2:50 pmIt doesn’t matter. The effort showed a callous disregard for so much
And Biden’s withdrawal from Afghanistan showed what? If not having a “callous disregard” for others was a disqualification for office, the lot of them should hang.
My complaint is not that J6 was insignificant, or that Trump should get a pass, it’s that in the last 4 years that’s the ONLY thing that #NeverTrump seems to care about, except maybe Ukraine. But like all single-issue voters, they ignore everything else.
To me, Biden’s attempt to tax unrealized gains is as much a constitutional crisis as J6. Mainly because he has a much greater chance of success. Or the NPVC, or the New Green Deal, or any of the statism-on-stilts plans that come out of the Democrat Party.
And, not only do I expect a Trump victory to lead to a nullification attempt in Congress, but I expect most of #NeverTrump to be on board.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 10/10/2024 @ 2:58 pmAnd then he lost a Senate seat again in 2022 by his choice of candidate
More than one. Besides GA, there was PA. And the AZ governorship (and Senate this time). Probably NV, too.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 10/10/2024 @ 3:02 pmSince the before the primaries, I have made it perfectly clear that I didn’t intend to vote for any presidential candidate; you, not so much as you have been running hot and cold about Trump.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2024 @ 3:33 pmIrrelevant. The attempt alone was disqualifying. Why even think about him getting another shot at the brass ring after that.
Paul Montagu (daaae2) — 10/10/2024 @ 3:37 pmin the last 4 years that’s the ONLY thing that #NeverTrump seems to care about, except maybe Ukraine
Kevin M (a9545f) — 10/10/2024 @ 2:58 pm
Kevin, you’re the one who said Trump should be dragged through the streets and hanged on the Capitol Mall. (Or something like that–correct me if I’m wrong.)
Now you say you’re tired of hearing about J6. This just shows the pernicious effect of Trump. Like many people, you have become habituated to his awfulness and, like the bull going for the red cape, fall for the “policies” Trump dangles.
norcal (581326) — 10/10/2024 @ 3:39 pmYou will need to explain that-a policy proposal on taxation (which didn’t result in any legislation to be considered) is nowhere comparable to trying to interfere with the Electoral College count and the peaceful transfer of power (which it wasn’t). The fact that Trump ultimately acquiesced in the result of the election is not to be counted in his favor.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2024 @ 3:41 pmI thought NJ Senator Menendez deserved to be forced from the Senate for his corruption; I think the Loser should be kept from the White House for the same reason.
Jim Miller (64d1e4) — 10/10/2024 @ 3:43 pmRip, that’s the bogus equivalencies Kevin’s selling these days, as if a tax proposal is anywhere near the same league as Trump’s Big Lie and bullying a VP and working a Fraud Elector Scheme and letting a riot go on for hours, all in furtherance of overturning a legitimate Constitutional electoral result.
Paul Montagu (daaae2) — 10/10/2024 @ 3:44 pmThe fact that Trump ultimately acquiesced in the result of the election is not to be counted in his favor.
All Buggsy acquiesced to was not being dragged out of the White House in a straitjacket by the Secret Service on January 20, 2021. And he still managed to steal Top Secret documents while leaving.
nk (bbefb2) — 10/10/2024 @ 3:48 pmIt just shows Kevin’s (and others here) complete lack of perspective as to what is a true threat. As others (and myself) have said, misguided presidential policies can be blocked by Congress and the courts. But with an acquiescent Republican Congress (which is looking increasingly likely), a second Trump administration can basically do anything it wants without traditional constraints.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2024 @ 3:54 pmAll Buggsy acquiesced to was not being dragged out of the White House in a straitjacket by the Secret Service on January 20, 2021. And he still managed to steal Top Secret documents while leaving.
nk (bbefb2) — 10/10/2024 @ 3:48 pm
Funny and true!
norcal (581326) — 10/10/2024 @ 4:32 pmBoth can’t be true.
SaveFarris (d968c0) — 10/10/2024 @ 4:43 pmKamala may tax your 401(k) but Trumputin will seize it and reissue you Russian government bonds. By executive order. And his Six Gerbils on the Supreme Court will rule that it is within his core executive function.
nk (34e55d) — 10/10/2024 @ 4:49 pmThe three biggest reasons to vote for Kamala:
1) She will support Ukraine in its fight to repel the Russian invaders. Trump will force Ukraine to cede territory to Russia (and not just the Donbas, either).
2) She will have a Republican Senate to contend with.
3) She will want a second term, and so will avoid being extreme. Trump, on the other hand, will do whatever he wants. Not only is there no re-election to worry about, he won’t even be worried about impeachment. Because of habituation, he has made impeachment meaningless, and lessened any opprobrium it once carried. Republican members of Congress are scared sh!tless of him, and Romney won’t be there to call out the jackass.
norcal (581326) — 10/10/2024 @ 4:50 pmI expect you to be sadly disappointed.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2024 @ 5:16 pmProfessional curtesy.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2024 @ 5:17 pmRomney could help Republicans feel more comfortable about voting for Harris if he openly endorsed Harris, but he didn’t. All Mitt did was hint that he would vote for Harris.
A possible reason for that is fear of the thug.
Nick today:
https://thedispatch.com/newsletter/boilingfrogs/the-deciders/
Liz Cheney has children, too, and maybe even grandchildren (although probably not as many). Mitt should be as brave as she is.
norcal (581326) — 10/10/2024 @ 5:28 pmRip, if you think Trump is a greater danger than Kamala, you should consider voting for Kamala, even though she is certain to win California without your vote.
Every popular vote that Kamala receives lessens any claim Trump may make as to his popularity. You may think one vote won’t matter, but where we would be if everyone thought that way?
norcal (581326) — 10/10/2024 @ 5:32 pmIt may be, with only a few weeks to go before the election, too much to ask that everyone just take a deep breath and calm down. But, speaking as one who doesn’t intend to vote for Trump, in large part because of his actions after Election Day in 2020 (and not just January 6), a few points:
1. Trump did leave office on 1/20/21, even if he didn’t want to. If the results next month are against him, he will probably ultimately respect them, even though he won’t want to.
RL formerly in Glendale (7a2d64) — 10/10/2024 @ 5:50 pm2. If Trump really were a tyrant we would have seen some tangible signs of it in 2017-21. He didn’t try to suspend the elections in 2018 or 2020, put political foes in jail, use troops to intimidate opponents, etc. Trump is obviously a bully and a blowhard, but calling him a tyrant is going too far.
3. If you have misgivings about the validity of the 2020 election, that doesn’t make you crazy. The unified shouting of the media after election day 2020 that the results must not be questioned (once it was clear Biden was ahead) gave me pause then and still does. I acknowledge that evidence of the election being stolen was not presented, and I have always accepted that Biden had to be recognized as the legitimate president. The country can’t proceed any other way. But I kind of feel like the jury in the Aaron Burr treason trial, whose verdict was “Not guilty” followed by “by reason of any evidence presented to us.”
4. And wherever anyone falls on these issues, may we all get along after November. My two best friends of more than 50 years each are a Bernie-ite and a pro-Trump Republican, the good qualities of each are far more important than whatever they think about politics. Suspect something like may be true for most readers of this blog.
I’m not interested in being part of Trump’s (Harris’s) election claims.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2024 @ 5:53 pmCorrection to post 55:
I’m not interested in being part of Trump’s (or Harris’s) election claims.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2024 @ 5:54 pmI’m not interested in being part of Trump’s (or Harris’s) election claims.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2024 @ 5:54 pm
That makes sense if you see them as equally bad. Do you?
norcal (581326) — 10/10/2024 @ 5:57 pmLost me at #1, RL. The bank robber who peacefully returned the money is still a criminal.
Paul Montagu (daaae2) — 10/10/2024 @ 5:58 pmNew York Times/Siena College Poll:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2024 @ 6:02 pmRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2024 @ 6:02 pm
All the more reason to feel better about voting for Kamala. Pushback from a Republican Senate.
norcal (581326) — 10/10/2024 @ 6:12 pmI think I’ve made that perfectly clear since before the primaries. Trump is a greater threat to the country, specifically because of January 6th and his inability to deliver a message (especially a conservative message) without denigrating everyone who dared disagreed. I certainly can’t bring myself to vote for Harris (or Biden if he was still around.) Like many here, I lament the lack of viable non-Trump candidates in the primaries. None of them showed any inclination to take the fight to Trump early in the campaign; Haley was way too late in her opposition, and she ultimately folded like a cheap skirt.
If I lived in a swing state I might feel different, but I don’t.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/10/2024 @ 6:14 pmRL formerly in Glendale (7a2d64) — 10/10/2024 @ 5:50 pm
RL, regarding your point 2, Trump is learning just how much he can get away with as he goes along. It probably surprised him. (If he knew then what he knows now, I doubt he would have apologized for the Access Hollywood tapes.) He got worse over the course of his term, and trying to overturn the election was the culmination of it. Of course it was tyrannical. That he left the White House prior to being physically forced isn’t noteworthy.
He knows how he was stymied in his first term. Who and how. I expect him to be surrounded by lackeys and lickspittles in a second term.
norcal (581326) — 10/10/2024 @ 6:21 pmnorcal, I brought up habituation seven months ago and, today, Americans are only more habituated to Trump’s lies and sheethole behavior.
Paul Montagu (daaae2) — 10/10/2024 @ 6:26 pmPaul Montagu (daaae2) — 10/10/2024 @ 6:26 pm
Yes. Maybe that got filed in the back of my mind.
Another word that describes this phenomenon is inurement.
If, ten years ago, I had described a hypothetical Republican President who said and did what Trump has done, I’ll bet many Trump supporters here would say it was utterly disqualifying, and would take a liberal Democrat over that person.
Cattogio’s column is called “Boiling Frogs” for a reason.
norcal (581326) — 10/10/2024 @ 6:36 pm100% agree. Some here will cling to their over the top rhetoric like it’s a security blanket.
lloyd (94bf0c) — 10/10/2024 @ 7:44 pmLove it. The Atlantic runs endless articles wailing that the Constitution is “broken” and needs to be reformed. That terrible electoral college, unrestrained First Amdt and horrid 2d Amdt, for example. By writers who would probably rather be caught stealing a car than showing a US Flag, and want to melt down George Washington’s statues.
So you should listen raptly, just before an election, as your social and intellectual Betters at the Atlantic hold their nose, like leftists during the playing of the National Anthem, and pretend to care about what George Washington thought.
Yup, they present Tom Nichols, a largely eastern academic, (and 2016 Never Trumper who fancies himself as a conservative, despite never having conserved a thing). He is here to tell the credulous rubes what the “Founderiest” Founder thinks about 2024, and quelle suprize! Its that “Trump is bad.” All endorsed by the Never Trumpers here. Didn’t see that coming!
So the candidates who want to abolish the electoral college, trim the 1st Amdt, abolish the 2d and stack the court- -they’re OK. Candidates that will weaken the military even more and pay for First Class seats to illegal border crossers – -Hey we can live with that! Because in 2028 a Magical Candidate will appear that will be “nice” but “firm,” and won’t be attacked by the media.
Harcourt Fenton Mudd (eed298) — 10/10/2024 @ 7:50 pm“it’s that in the last 4 years that’s the ONLY thing that #NeverTrump seems to care about, except maybe Ukraine. But like all single-issue voters, they ignore everything else.”
The last four years were dominated by Covid recovery and gridlock…and the resurgence of Trump from J6….the nail that should have sealed his political coffin. The fact that it didn’t is a testimony of how far gone the GOP is.
I get that some people want policy to matter and want to have much more lofty discussions. But it’s like insistently asking Mrs. Lincoln, yeah, but how otherwise was the play?
We have an individual who we genuinely have no idea what he means when he warns he will be MAGA’s retribution, how exactly he plans to end the Ukraine War in short order, what might follow his plan to deeply politicize DoJ, how horrible he might turn immigration enforcement as Stephen Miller gets a second swing, what a second foray into a China trade war will look like, how he might try to kneecap NATO to strike back at his disloyal generals, and the fallout of a President pardoning himself, his closests cronies, and the useful idiots of J6.
There is only one office that we give so much power and authority to in this country. Character matters. It matters for the crises yet unimagined. The notion that some think we can continue having a serial liar and fabulist leading the nation without consequence is staggering. We’ve fallen so far that we have people who just don’t care that an ex-President may have been back dealing with Putin, that he continues to spread horrible lies about elections, immigrants, the justice system, and natural disaster relief.
I guess some are just getting numb to it all. One reaction is to oppose the man. Another response is to work hard at what-abouting it all. If everyone is bad, then we get permission to indulge our partisanship and pick our bad man.
AJ_Liberty (b770ef) — 10/10/2024 @ 8:00 pm“Profile in courage” gets thrown around that easily? In contrast to Liz and Mitt, Trump actually got shot at. Tone deaf.
lloyd (94bf0c) — 10/10/2024 @ 8:01 pmYes. Captain Bone Spurs is very courageous. After all, he had his own personal Vietnam trying to avoid STDs.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-stds-vietnam/
norcal (581326) — 10/10/2024 @ 9:51 pmI have a comment in unwarranted moderation.
norcal (581326) — 10/10/2024 @ 9:53 pmKevin, you’re the one who said Trump should be dragged through the streets and hanged on the Capitol Mall. (Or something like that–correct me if I’m wrong.)
I did indeed. For J6. Did Biden even try? No, because while he may have been a threat to the constitution on J6, on Jan 20th he was not seen as a threat to Biden. It wasn’t until he decided to run again that they found the reasons to charge him. You may argue that the charges against Trump are righteous (and outside of the NY charges, they are), but their timing smacks of politics.
But that was then, this is now. Trump should be doing time already, but he’s not. It was too important to Biden to have Trump as his opponent.
We have two choices in November. Only two. And the other side is no winner, but #NeverTrump still can’t see past J6. Just like Biden had planned.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 10/10/2024 @ 10:06 pmLiz, Mitt and their families live under constant death threat for their anti-MAGA apostasy, a burden they undertook at considerable personal cost, and without Secret Service protection. They’re immeasurably more courageous than the morally treasonous orange turd.
lurker (c23034) — 10/10/2024 @ 10:11 pmThat makes sense if you see them as equally bad. Do you?
No, Trump is probably worse in some respects, Harris in others. But there is this: the situation right now is untenable, the status quo cannot hold.
Harris has no plan other than more of the same, maybe faster, locking us deeper into a socialist death spiral. Trump offers radical change. I don’t think I’d like his radical change all that much, but 4 years from now it might seem cautious, given the sh1t we’ll be in then.
They are differently bad. I expect to dislike whichever.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 10/10/2024 @ 10:13 pmWe have two choices in November. Only two.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 10/10/2024 @ 10:06 pm
Yes, and I just can’t vote for the one who deserved hanging.
norcal (581326) — 10/10/2024 @ 10:14 pmLiz, Mitt and their families live under constant death threat for their anti-MAGA apostasy
Two people making a good try at killing Trump is worth any number of death threats.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 10/10/2024 @ 10:14 pmBelieve trump lies? How about they don’t care because he hates the same people they hate. For many years veterans tell me they hate democrats for cutting their benefits to give the money to minorities. When I tell them no democrats keep trying to buy their love by raising veteran’s benefits and its the republicans who they worship who cut their benefits to give the money to the wealthy and business they are amazed! They want to hate democrats not republican and 4F bone spurs so they will continue to blame democrats for republicans cutting their benefits. I ask how much of your veteran benefits has Jane Fonda cut?
asset (52cac0) — 10/10/2024 @ 10:15 pmYes, and I just can’t vote for the one who deserved hanging.
Nor can I, but that does not mean one should vote for the other one. And, as I argue, a number of people here won’t even consider what might be wrong with her.
Single. Issue. Voters.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 10/10/2024 @ 10:16 pm#NeverTrump still can’t see past J6.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 10/10/2024 @ 10:06 pm
Like AJ said, this is like asking, “But other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?”
Lincoln’s assassination was a hanging offense, also.
norcal (581326) — 10/10/2024 @ 10:22 pmAnd, as I argue, a number of people here won’t even consider what might be wrong with her.
Single. Issue. Voters.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 10/10/2024 @ 10:16 pm
There is plenty wrong with her. I’m already on record as to the odiousness of her plan to implement price controls, or profit controls.
I’m also against her plan to subsidize housing purchases and small businesses.
Her inaction on the border, despite being appointed “border czar”, is horrible.
Despite all that, I’m still voting for her over the man who has corrupted civic society to the point that a majority of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen.
norcal (581326) — 10/10/2024 @ 10:29 pmAsserted with zero evidence, just like the ubiquitous allegations from the other side that Garland took too long for the precisely opposite reason that he was bending over backward to avoid any appearance of political motive.
Meanwhile, people with actual federal criminal practice experience, e.g., Ken White, warned from the outset that this type of complex, multi-defendant federal prosecution would be agonizingly slow to develop, with the people at the top unlikely to be indicted for years. Turns out he was right. But conspiracy theories are unfalsifiable, so asserting them is cost-free, right?
lurker (c23034) — 10/10/2024 @ 10:35 pmIn addition to Trump infecting so many people with election denialism (more consequential, on a much bigger scale, and for much longer than some Democrats have done in the past), there is the undermining of our allied relationships.
Oh, and don’t forget how much Trump likes dictators.
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-north-korea-kim-jong-un-missile-test-tweet-2019-5
A President should never, ever, team up with a dictator of a hostile, adversarial nation to laugh at a domestic political opponent.
It’s reprehensible.
But like I said, we have become inured to it. That we have learned to tune it out doesn’t make Trump any less evil.
norcal (581326) — 10/10/2024 @ 10:46 pmWorth? Worth what? Being shot at isn’t, in and of itself, an act of courage. (Was John Lennon courageous? Andy Warhol?) Voluntarily putting oneself at risk is. In that regard, everyone who has ever run for national office has shown some courage. That would include the Romneys, the Cheneys and the Trumps. But courage is for prospective threats, not past acts. I see no reason that those who are subsequently shot at become retroactively more courageous than those who merely live under the threat.
lurker (c23034) — 10/10/2024 @ 10:53 pmAsserted with zero evidence, just like the ubiquitous allegations from the other side that Garland took too long for the precisely opposite reason that he was bending over backward to avoid any appearance of political motive.
“Cui bono” only cuts one way.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 10/10/2024 @ 11:05 pmWorth? Worth what? Being shot at isn’t, in and of itself, an act of courage.
Lord, lurker, this is the best you have? Word-pickiness?
If you go on about how someone is getting death-threats as if they has any bearing on an argument, then you MUST accept that getting SHOT AT is even more meaningful.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 10/10/2024 @ 11:06 pmLike norcal, I’m not blind to Harris’ faults. I’ve been bemoaning her shortcomings, including here, since the day Biden picked her for Veep. I voted against her in three general elections in CA, and would have gladly voted against her this time had the GOP nominated someone minimally morally qualified. Instead, they chose probably the most unfit person ever to hold the office.
Harris is terrible. Trump is immeasurably worse. Why Kevin seems to believe that one candidate being horrible means her opponent can’t be so much more horrible that in a binary choice the less horrible one becomes desirable eludes me. It’s not complicated. We’ve all seen, and in my case used, the metaphors. The clap vs. cancer. Frozen pizza vs pizza rat pizza. Etc.
lurker (c23034) — 10/10/2024 @ 11:21 pmIf you’re only seeing one way, you’re blinding yourself to the other(s). Hint: expand your concept of “bono.” Believe it or not, for some people it’s not always money or power.
lurker (c23034) — 10/10/2024 @ 11:25 pmYou’re mixing apples and oranges. Obviously being shot at is a more consequential life experience than the mere threat of being shot at. But for purposes of courage, all that matters is the continuing threat. And comparing the risk to two threatened targets doesn’t equate to which one’s already been shot at and which one hasn’t.
lurker (c23034) — 10/10/2024 @ 11:29 pmMeanwhile, people with actual federal criminal practice experience, e.g., Ken White, warned from the outset that this type of complex, multi-defendant federal prosecution would be agonizingly slow to develop, with the people at the top unlikely to be indicted for years.
lurker (c23034) — 10/10/2024 @ 10:35 pm
This is true. I’ve seen how slowly the government operates, especially in the case of VIPs.
norcal (581326) — 10/10/2024 @ 11:37 pmKamala wants mitt romney? This is a radical lefty like me? I am sure black and latinx men will vote for her now! Establishment democrats panic and its CYA time so they don’t go down with the titanic. (they will anyway) AOC 2028 as newsome is not tough enough.
asset (52cac0) — 10/11/2024 @ 2:28 amhttps://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/donald-trump-overtakes-kamala-harris-in-seven-point-swing-nationally-poll/ar-AA1rYNbD
And that doesn’t include Harris’s own internal polls that show Trump up in 6 of 7 swing states.
Cheers.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/11/2024 @ 5:10 amIn my lifetime, we’ve never had a President praise our enemies and admire their authoritarian regimes. Couple that with his irresistible urge to lie about everything…..and then putting innocent Americans at risk because of it is astounding. From Springfield Haitians to FBI agents searching Mar-a-Lago to Capitol police on J6 to Republicans speaking out against him to federal prosecutors pursuing reasonable charges against him. He doesn’t exactly earn points for his erratic behavior leading an unstable person trying to shoot him.
If it seems like we are singularly focused, perhaps it’s because Trump’s idiosyncrasies are so outside the norm. It’s like trying to complain about crabgrass and overgrown bushes while the house is on fire. Yeah they’re bad, but something else appears a bit more urgent.
One of these two individuals will be President and have plenary executive power. I don’t want it to be the one that serially praises Orban and who might be backchannel scheming with Putin. I can fight tooth and nail to oppose court-packing and voter-compact schemes. There’s little I can do to stop a President from collaborating with our enemies. As lurker opined, this isn’t hard.
AJ_Liberty (b770ef) — 10/11/2024 @ 5:22 amIt should be disqualifying enough that we had Trump’s Big Unretracted Lie and his bullying a VP to violate the Constitution and his working a Fraud Elector Scheme and his bullying state officials to reverse electoral results and his letting a riot go on for hours, all in furtherance of illegally overturning a legitimate Constitutional election, but now it’s Beware The Rambling Incoherent Tyrant, in response to a question about tariffs and domestic manufacturing…
Folks, his brain is a bowl of mush. Why vote for this criminal insanity. How can this be?
Paul Montagu (daaae2) — 10/11/2024 @ 5:38 amNothing to see here: just Democrats conspiring to subvert election results.
But Hey: Trump had some mean tweets!!!
https://www.axios.com/2024/10/11/house-democrats-jan-6-election-trump-raskin?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=editorial
SaveFarris (7cee56) — 10/11/2024 @ 6:06 amA “socialist death spiral”? Kevin, when exactly did you morph into Sean Hannity? This bothsides nonsense is bizarre. In the last sixteen years, twelve have been under Democrat presidents. Where’s the socialism?
Paul Montagu (daaae2) — 10/11/2024 @ 6:11 am“Where’s the socialism?”
California. San Francisco. Where Harris has held power. California isn’t full on socialist only because there are places like Texas and Florida where people and companies can flee to. You think Democrats don’t want to take it national, solving that problem? You think they don’t seek one party rule, like they enjoy in California?
(And yes I live here. If not for family and job, I’d be long gone.)
lloyd (d006b9) — 10/11/2024 @ 6:44 amHow is hyperbole an effective argument?
Paul Montagu (daaae2) — 10/11/2024 @ 7:02 amThe US isn’t a liberal nation, which is why Kamala isn’t getting traction, and is why any legislation that smells like Bernie won’t get passed.
@45
Just…
…no. Not even close.
A full unified government means having 60+ senators and compliant judges across the US.
0% of that ever happening.
The filibuster is a thing if GOP has the Senate majority.
On the flip side though, Democrats will nuke the filibuster if they ever hold the House, 50 senators and the WH. There’s your true threat.
whembly (477db6) — 10/11/2024 @ 7:09 am@48
Lay off the sauce for a weee bit my good friend. You’re not making any sense.
whembly (477db6) — 10/11/2024 @ 7:10 am@95 Paul, the intent is there. An inability to fulfill that intent (at present) is supposed to provide comfort?
lloyd (915808) — 10/11/2024 @ 7:13 amIndeed, the intent is there, lloyd. Trump intended a coup barely four years ago.
Paul Montagu (daaae2) — 10/11/2024 @ 7:37 amKamala intends to introduce misguided and milquetoast liberal legislation, which won’t fly in a Senate where you need 60 votes.
97. Any scenario involving Mary Anne’s Baby is as good as any other.
It’s not Kamala talking about running off to Venezuela with Elon Musk.
In which South American country is Hannibal Lecter these days? Maybe he can have them over for dinner.
nk (50fc6a) — 10/11/2024 @ 7:38 amBTW, it looks like Tester is going down in MT, so the GOP will have at least 51 seats, which means the current amputated filibuster will stay intact.
Also, there are enough Senate institutionalists on both sides who are flat-out against killing what’s left of it. They saw the havoc that Harry Reid wreaked 11 years ago when he killed the filibuster on judicial and other appointments, and Mitch McConnell mercilessly taught the Dems that what goes around comes around, and we now have two conservative Justices that we wouldn’t have had otherwise.
If Kamala’s elected, she might get the Lankford Compromise passed but little else in a Thune-run Senate (at least, I hope it’s Thune and not Cornyn or Barrasso or some other Trump-sucking putz).
Paul Montagu (daaae2) — 10/11/2024 @ 7:57 amWhere Congress can’t intercede (such as on tariffs and foreign policy), she won’t be as stupid as Trump on tariffs, and she won’t stupidly force Ukraine to surrender, which means she won’t be sending stupid messages to the Xi regime about conquering Taiwan. This is but one more reason why Trump must lose, and also because we’re a divided nation that should have a divided government to match, but that still don’t mean I’m voting for her.
This “Kamala won’t get what she wants” is nonsense. She will get her judicial appointments, just as Biden and Obama did, and that’s a huge step in the wrong direction that will last decades. Trump’s policy efforts got blocked not by a Democrat Senate but by judges. Eventually, a Republican president (even one you like, if that exists) won’t be able to get anything done. and Democrats won’t be stopped.
lloyd (a17e26) — 10/11/2024 @ 8:25 amI want Thomas and Alito replaced by Not Trump-appointed Justices. Republican or Democrat just as long as it’s not Trump. That way, they might decide cases according to the Constitution and the law, and not according to notes left on the refrigerator by Ginni and Martha Ann.
nk (50fc6a) — 10/11/2024 @ 8:34 amNk,
you sound broken ever since the illegal Roe law was overturned.
Does human sacrifice matter that much to you?
NJRob (63ee2f) — 10/11/2024 @ 8:42 amNot with halfway combative GOP majority, lloyd, and chances are excellent that we’ll have that majority.
Like I said, hyperbole isn’t an effective argument. Nor is lying. I’ve already documented the many Republicans I’d support for prez.
Paul Montagu (a0b412) — 10/11/2024 @ 8:49 amnk wants the Bush appointed judges out. Says it all.
lloyd (ea3858) — 10/11/2024 @ 9:03 am“Not with halfway combative GOP majority, lloyd, and chances are excellent that we’ll have that majority.”
Ridiculous hyperbole.
lloyd (ea3858) — 10/11/2024 @ 9:04 amI would rather have the Trump-appointed Justices gone but I am not a Trump supporter. Which is to say that I live in the real world and not in a capital “A” Abysmal fantasy.
Thomas and Alito are the only ones old enough to be realistically expected to retire in the next four years.
nk (50fc6a) — 10/11/2024 @ 9:08 amHarris winning California is a foregone conclusion. I’m not going to help.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/11/2024 @ 9:14 amKevin M (a9545f) — 10/10/2024 @ 2:58 pm
They think it’s their trump card. And they distort what happened, and have distorted it for years.
It wasn’t really Jan 6. it was his entire campaign to reverse the election results. None of what he did may have violated the law, although it wasn’t right.
It would need to pass Congress to set it up. It won’t.
I think they might try for faithless electors especially if Harris wins the popular vote.
If so, Trump campaigning in New York doesn’t look so stupid or like an attempt just to win House seats.
Nullification limited to Trump himself, (on 14th amendment grounds) which will fail in any case, would only make JD Vance president – something Democrats wouldn’t particularly like.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 10/11/2024 @ 11:07 am104. Rumaanis under Ceascescu did release ordinary criminals for real (but didn’t send them or allow them to go to France or other countries) and that did not make it a place political outsiders from free countries could want to go to.
Trump is just speaking nonsense, which he hopes his supporters do not realize is nonsense.
Venezuela is allied with Iran (which is supporting Harris while Russia is supporting Trump and China is concentrating on down ballot races supporting anyone who is against candidates that are pro-Taiwan)
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/07/us/politics/russia-china-iran-false-election-claims.html
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 10/11/2024 @ 11:18 amPaul Montagu (daaae2) — 10/11/2024 @ 5:38 am
That would be a point in his favor.
Actually what we see there is Trump being unable to decide what to speak about, combined maybe with some memory problems – he wants to keep talking and doesn’t want to stop his ad libbing.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 10/11/2024 @ 11:32 am