Patterico's Pontifications

9/13/2024

Weekend Open Thread

Filed under: General — Dana @ 7:31 am



[guest post by Dana]

Let’s go!

First news item

One of the more ridiculous post-debate reactions:

Fox News contributor Mollie Hemingway shared calls by her colleague at The Federalist, Sean Davis, for ABC News to lose its broadcasting license and its two presidential debate moderators to be “criminally charged.”

. . .

In the fallout, MAGA pundits and Trump himself have attacked ABC News and blamed the moderators, David Muir and Linsey Davis, as “biased.” On several occasions the pair fact-checked Trump — much to his frustration.

Among the critics of the moderators was Sean Davis — CEO of The Federalist, where Hemingway serves as editor-in-chief. On Wednesday, Davis unleashed on the moderators and ABC News in general.

. . .

Again, hours later, Hemingway retweeted an article also posted by Davis, written by journalist Beth Berlje, calling for ABC News to be federally prosecuted for “illegal contributions” to Harris’s campaign in the form
of debate bias.

Second news item

Give the Ukrainians what they need:

. . . officials in Washington, London and Kyiv have in recent days discussed expanding the area inside Russia that Ukraine can hit with American and British-made weapons. They’ve also discussed how to prevent additional cross-border attacks by Russia, including the U.S. agreeing to allow Ukraine to use U.K. long-range missiles that contain American parts to strike inside Russia.

The current conversations between Washington and Kyiv mark a significant change in tenor from the ones the two countries held earlier this summer. And it signals the Biden administration may be ready to finally agree to Kyiv’s requests to enable Ukraine’s military to more forcefully defend itself and to make more aggressive moves inside Russia.

Third news item

Punished for tasting freedom:

Video has emerged from North Korea showing handcuffed teenagers being publicly denounced for the crime of enjoying foreign films and music, in a further sign of the regime’s fear of the “malignant tumour” of imported culture.

Clips broadcast on South Korean television show teenage girls with heads bowed in some kind of tribunal. One of them, whose name and school are identified on screen, stands weeping in front of a microphone as she makes her confession, before being roughly led away by uniformed soldiers.

The film, which appears to be an official production distributed as a warning, describes her as one of “several students who watched and distributed impure publications and propaganda materials, including puppet television dramas” — a term used to refer to South Korean television.

. . .

In a second clip, a young soldier confesses to similar crimes. “Using my mobile phone, I watched 15 American movies, 17 South Korean puppet movies and 127 videos and listened to about 160 puppet songs,” he says.

Fourth news item

Judge makes abortion legal in North Dakota:

A North Dakota judge struck down the state’s abortion ban — one of the strictest in the U.S. — Thursday, ruling that residents “have a fundamental right to choose abortion” before the fetus is viable.

“The North Dakota Constitution guarantees each individual, including women, the fundamental right to make medical judgments affecting his or her bodily integrity, health, and autonomy, in consultation with a chosen health care provider free from government interference,” Romanic wrote in the opinion.

“This section necessarily and more specifically protects a woman’s right to procreative autonomy – including to seek and obtain a pre-viability abortion,” the judge said.
Romanic also ruled that the law violates the state’s constitution because it’s too vague in defining exceptions to the ban.

Fifth news item

Afghan women refuse to be silenced by little chickenshits calling themselves men:

Across the internet, Afghan women are committing what would be a crime in their homeland, ruled by the Taliban: They’re singing, like Fatima Etimadi, 34, and her girlfriends, belting out this defiant tune, a little out of tune:

“The flower will unfurl, revealing a spring of freedom,” they chant. “I sing the anthem of freedom, again, again, freedom.” In the video posted online, Etimadi wears a headscarf. Her friends have unfussy short hair.

“Every day, the Taliban seeks new ways to restrict women,” Etimadi tells NPR in an interview. “They’re making women die while they’re alive.”

. . .

They may not leave their homes unless it’s urgent. There’s no clear definition of “urgent” and presumably, that is decided by patrolling officials from the Ministry for the Prevention of Vice and Promotion of Virtue, whose job it is to enforce this sweeping law. When they do venture outside their homes, they must always have a male guardian. They cannot raise their voices in public. Even if they are speaking in their home, they must not do so in a way that could be overheard by strangers. Also: No laughing. No speaking loudly. No singing. Even in private gatherings.

As one 20-year old Afghan woman put it: “The Taliban are turning women into nameless, anonymous shadows,” says Fahim. “A tool, to be used and kept at home, a machine for making babies.”

Sixth news item

Birds of a feather flock together:

[Laura] Loomer was photographed travelling aboard Trump’s private jet to the presidential debate, and accompanied him and top members of his campaign team on Wednesday to events commemorating the September 11 attacks in New York and Pennsylvania.

Of course we all know that Loomer has called 9/11 an inside job. . .

But is she helping Trump or is she helping Harris?

Democrats have been quietly cheering Loomer’s involvement, believing she is making Republicans uncomfortable by drawing away from potentially effective conservative lines of attack on vote-winning issues like immigration.

The Harris campaign made the connection between the two clear, sharing on one of its platforms a video of Trump speaking highly of Loomer at a recent rally, where he described her as a “fantastic person” and “great woman”.

What is there to say? Two racist, conspiracy nutters drawn to one another? Makes perfect sense. If Trump selecting Loomer as an advisor, companion, or both, doesn’t alarm Republicans, from Party leaders down to voters, then nothing will. This is just more evidence of Trump’s lack of judgment and how easily manipulated he is. No matter from whom the flattery comes – even a lying, racist, conspiracy theorist and hateful bigot – his ear is theirs. Unfortunately, brutal villains and masters of manipulation like Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong Un and Xi are all too aware of how easily flattered Trump is. . . This is not an insignificant matter.

UPDATE: Trump was asked about Laura Loomer today, and he responded:

Laura has been a supporter of mine, just like a lot of people are supporters, and she’s been a supporter of mine. She speaks very positively of the campaign. Laura has to say what she wants. She’s a she’s a free spirit.

Have a good weekend!

—Dana

620 Responses to “Weekend Open Thread”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (7c9962)

  2. No this is an unfortunate speako:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAIHxwgpUog
    Fast forward to minute 43:18.

    “As a young prostituter, Kamala Harris talked about going into that courtroom for the first time,” he said. “Kamala Harris, for the people.”

    So unfortunate… 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

    whembly (477db6)

  3. We have seemingly all gone insane. I just want the alien ship to return and take me back to my own planet. This place is an asylum of crazy folk. No wonder extraterrestrials do not visit: our cultural mental illnesses may be communicable.

    I am so depressed.

    Simon Jester (b9dbba)

  4. First New item:

    Donnie could not reach the cookies and the store should lose its business license and the stock clerks prosecuted for putting them on a high shelf.

    Those people are their own parody.

    nk (0c573b)

  5. Life is like a box of chocolates, Simon. Trump will eat the top layer and demand a second layer underneath.

    nk (0c573b)

  6. The Federalist Society ought to sue The Federalist for traedmark violation.

    Kevin M (39ae7a)

  7. Romanic also ruled that the law violates the state’s constitution because it’s too vague in defining exceptions to the ban.

    He based this on the clause saying that citizens enjoyed the right to life and liberty. Without a trace of irony.

    Kevin M (39ae7a)

  8. RIP Chad McQueen (63):

    ………..
    (The son of actor Steve McQueen, he) is best known for his role as “Dutch” in “The Karate Kid” (1984) and its sequel, “The Karate Kid Part II” (1986). His portrayal of one of the Cobra Kai members was iconic in ’80s pop culture. His character, in particular, exhibited a merciless attitude and encouraged Johnny Lawrence (played by William “Billy” Zabka) to brutally beat up Daniel LaRusso (Ralph Macchio) during the night of the Halloween dance.
    ………..
    ………..McQueen had a successful career in auto racing, his true passion. He competed professionally in events like the 24 Hours of Le Mans and the 12 Hours of Sebring and founded McQueen Racing, a company that develops high-performance cars and motorcycles, continuing the family legacy of passion for automobiles.

    In 2006, McQueen suffered a near-fatal crash while practicing for the Daytona International Speedway’s Rolex 24 event. Though he eventually pulled through, the crash effectively ended his professional racing career, but he has remained involved in motorsports through his company and other ventures.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  9. I’ve updated the post with comments by Trump, when asked about Loomer.

    Dana (8817e6)

  10. As long as the nutcase is in full support of the GOP nutcase, what’s the big deal, let her ride with him on his jet.
    Granted this xweet is from a Pelosi, but bats now use the term Trumpsh-t crazy.

    Paul Montagu (be56b4)

  11. Regarding Afghanistan, Ann Coulter was right: “We should invade their countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity.”

    Kevin M (bfb8ad)

  12. The only consolation to Trump’s dangerous and inflammatory words about dark-skinned immigrants in Springfield OH is that they’re mockworthy and musically catchy. I almost hummed a few bars.

    Paul Montagu (be56b4)

  13. Laura Loomer could be a double agent, although I’m not quite ready to say so. But she can’t be so stupid as to actually believe what she says, and nobody genuinely for Trump (even out of self-interest) could want her around. Of course she could be for herself.

    Sammy FInkelman (e4ef09)

  14. I noticed that David Muir was careful in what he said during the debate:

    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/harris-trump-presidential-debate-transcript/story?id=113560542

    DAVID MUIR: I just want to clarify here, you bring up Springfield, Ohio. And ABC News did reach out to the city manager there. He told us there have been no credible reports of specific claims of pets being harmed, injured or abused by individuals within the immigrant community

    No credible reports.

    But reports there have been. Or there wouldn’t be the qualification of “credible.”

    Maybe even fake 911 calls or interviews on television (Trump said he saw some)

    Sammy FInkelman (e4ef09)

  15. We all wanted vengeance for 9/11, after a few months, lots of folks in the DoD were thinking strategically about getting into Afghanistan killing the jihadi leadership and letting the northern alliance run the show while we moved onto leadership elsewhere. But we decided that nation building was the policy, and I understand the sentiment, it was never practical “over there”. Hindsight being what it is, we’d rather have done things differently.

    I’m much more pragmatic now, targeted strikes are at least as effective as mass invasion and nation building in asymmetrical warfare, with fewer downsides.

    I’m not sure there is a solution in most of the mid east.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (abc80e)

  16. The moderators tried to be honest but were not always correct. They were not too bad. They ignored what Harris said.

    They were not prepared for her lies. They had prepared some on Trump.

    Most of what each candidate said about the other was false and Trump was more wrong about
    reality in general.

    Where Kamala Harris has avowed something based on a different reality, she didn’t say in the debate, except for attacks against Trump.

    Sammy FInkelman (e4ef09)

  17. Colonel Klink (ret) (abc80e) — 9/13/2024 @ 1:05 pm

    But we decided that nation building was the policy, and I understand the sentiment, it was never practical “over there”.

    It was practical, but you had to change the government of Pakistan as well.

    The British knew this and that’s how they came to rule all of India.

    Sammy FInkelman (e4ef09)

  18. (Trump said he saw some)

    Sure he said, still not true. He added the dog eating because he was confused. The screen shot of Facebook post that a supposed mother said her friend’s daughter’s friend’s neighbor’s friend saw it might be a little light on substance.

    Trump didn’t know any of that, he just spewed the white nationalist lies amplified by Loomer and Vance, and it fit his narrative. Truth is inconsequential, it’s Trump’s way.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (abc80e)

  19. But it also wouldn’t work on the doorstep of Iran, so add invasion and occupation of Iran, then there’s Iraq, and Syria, and Yemen and North Africa.

    Tell me, why’d the British/europe/ottomans/…Romans not succeed in 2000 years?

    Colonel Klink (ret) (835ba4)

  20. lloyd’s comment reminds me of a couple of Trump’s lies…(1) the Haitians in Springfield aren’t illegal, as Trump dishonestly claimed and (2) there’s no such thing as a migrant crime spree. The crime rate for legal immigrants is lower than for the natural-born, and the crime rates for illegals is lower than for legal immigrants. But facts don’t matter to the Racist Cult Leader of the GOP and his Loomer consort, and apparently not to his devotees either.

    Paul Montagu (be56b4)

  21. I don’t think Trump lied about seeing something n television any more than he lied about what he said Joe Biden said about firing the prosecutor (although he got a bit confused there)

    This is the supposed origin:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-haitian-eating-pets-immigrants-facebook-source-b2612208.html

    Earlier this month, Erika Lee, 35, posted the bizarre anecdote in a local Facebook group.

    As the story goes, a cat owner found her dead pet hanging from a tree ready to be skinned, butchered and eaten at a house said to be occupied by Haitian immigrants….

    ….Now, Lee has revealed her vastly dubious sourcing for the baseless story: that she heard it from a neighbor, who heard it from a friend, who heard it from their daughter. She also admitted that she doesn’t even know the person who is believed to have started the tale…

    …The neighbor who spread the gossip to Lee, Kimberly Newton, also admitted to NewsGuard that her sources were unreliable.

    “I’m not sure I’m the most credible source because I don’t actually know the person who lost the cat,” she told the website. “I don’t have any proof.”

    Lee had retold the fourth-hand fable on local Facebook group Springfield Ohio Crime and Information.

    On September 5, a screenshot of the post was then shared on X which went viral, and has since been viewed by almost one million users.

    “My neighbor [Newton] informed me that her daughters friend had lost her cat,” Lee began.

    “One day she came home from work, as soon as she stepped out of her car, looked towards a neighbors house, where Haitians live, & saw her cat hanging from a branch, like you’d do a deer for butchering, & they were carving it up to eat.”

    She concluded: “I’ve been told they are doing this to dogs, they have been doing it at snyder park with the ducks & geese, as I was told that last bit by Rangers & police.”

    By Monday, Vance had caught a whiff of the story and used it to push a xenophobic, anti-immigration narrative to attack Harris and the Biden administration’s border policy….

    This is not the beginning of the story nor does it explain how it went viral.

    It might indeed be white nationalists who started this and they are interested in helping themselves (gaining support even though they are still small minority) than in electing anyone.

    But this takes us to Russia. Since Russia supports them.

    And then how did Trump get to cite Prime Minister of Hungary. Viktor Orban (albeit only in the context of foreign policy – although apparently he did not include Russia in the list of countries that the U.S. should make afraid)

    Sammy FInkelman (e4ef09)

  22. I look forward to Loomer commenting about JD Vance’s wife and how, if elected, the Naval Observatory will smell like curry.
    Personally, I love the smell and taste of that dish. It’d be a reason to visit.

    Paul Montagu (be56b4)

  23. I don’t think Trump lied about seeing something n television…

    Sammy, Trump lies all the time about what he sees on the telly, like when he saw thousands of Muslims cheering from the across the river when the towers fell. Or when he said there were “very fine people” on the Friday night in question, when the only coverage at the time was tiki-torch bearing Nazis. He lies all the time, including about what he says he saw on the tube.

    Paul Montagu (be56b4)

  24. @22 Here Paul, someone has already done the research for you. But don’t let logic and facts dissuade you. I don’t think it ever has before.

    lloyd (88b2ee)

  25. Colonel Klink (ret) (835ba4) — 9/13/2024 @ 1:17 pm

    But it also wouldn’t work on the doorstep of Iran, so add invasion and occupation of Iran, then there’s Iraq, and Syria, and Yemen and North Africa.

    The Iraqi project went wrong because Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia were trying to sabotage it, and Bush didn’t understand that.

    They didn’t want a transition to democracy to succeed.

    It was really the whole Middle East or nothing.

    In 1945, there were no more vestiges of what the United States set out to replace. So it worked in Germany and Japan. The Communists did not want war.

    Tell me, why’d the British/europe/ottomans/…Romans not succeed in 2000 years?

    The Romans succeeded for hundreds of years, and also had peace with their neighbors. The Ottomans ruled for 400 years. The British went slowly in India. Some things went badly for them but basically there was peace. They were pushed out of Afghanistan but not pursued.

    The point is you can’t have areas where you can be attacked from or plotted against but you respect their sovereignty.

    Sammy FInkelman (e4ef09)

  26. Paul Montagu (be56b4) — 9/13/2024 @ 1:41 pm

    Personally, I love the smell and taste of that dish. It’d be a reason to visit.

    The prejudice she’s trying to stir up ii too new. She doesn’t know what to say. What’s s bad about curry in someone’s living quarters>

    Sammy FInkelman (e4ef09)

  27. Paul Montagu (be56b4) — 9/13/2024 @ 1:44 pm

    Sammy, Trump lies all the time about what he sees on the telly, like when he saw thousands of Muslims cheering from the across the river when the towers fell.

    TIME Magazine reported in 2004 I think that Donald Trump was in Chicago in 9/11. I still do not know the source of that story nor any confirmation :

    From page 443, of the TIME 2006 Almanac: (which I stumbled upon by accident one day – it’s reprinted from a 2004 TIME Magazjne story)

    >> On the morning of Sept. 11, 2001, Adrian D. Smith, a well-known architect in the Chicago office of Skidmore, Owings and Merrill, was in a meeting with Donald Trump. The hyperbolic new York City developer was in Chicago to go over the design of a proposed Trump residential tower in that city that he decided should be – what else! – the tallest building in the world, around 2,000 ft. In the midst of their meeting, the two men got word of the first plane that hit the World Trade Center. “When the second plane hit, we all rushed to the television to see what was happening,” says Smith. “That was the end of the meeting.” And also the end of the 2,000 ft tower. A few weeks later, Trump’s people came back with a revised proposal – at 900 ft. or so.

    here was said to be some cheering in Gaza. Also some Israelis who photographed it (and maybe some people in Jersey City) were falsely accused of cheering it. And arrested for having overstayed their visas.

    In this case, I’d suspect some online source – indeed how else could Trump se a report of people claiming cats had ben killed and eaten?

    Or when he said there were “very fine people” on the Friday night in question, when the only coverage at the time was tiki-torch bearing Nazis.

    The lie or mistake was in thinking or saying that the rally consisted of people who opposed the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee, instead of a purely white nationalist rally, but Trump’s description of very fine people clearly applied only to the opposition in general.

    He lies all the time, including about what he says he saw on the tube.

    He didn’t lie about seeing (r hearing) a recording of Joe Biden claiming to have bee instrumental in the firing of a Ukrainian prosecutor (though he got wrong Biden’s declared motive)

    .

    Sammy FInkelman (e4ef09)

  28. From the debate:

    FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Well, I’ve seen people on television

    DAVID MUIR: Let me just say here this …

    FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: The people on television say my dog was taken and used for food. So maybe he said that and maybe that’s a good thing to say for a city manager.

    DAVID MUIR: I’m not taking this from television. I’m taking it from the city manager.

    FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: But the people on television say their dog was eaten by the people that went there.

    Probably not wat they said.

    DAVID MUIR: Again, the Springfield city manager says there’s no evidence of that.

    No he didn’t say that. He said no credible report.

    FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: We’ll find out

    Sammy FInkelman (e4ef09)

  29. Another origin story:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/12/opinion/maga-debate-cats-dogs-haiti-trump.html

    A few minutes into the contest, Kamala Harris interrupted her remarks to mock Donald Trump’s rallies. She invited viewers to attend one, made fun of Trump’s meandering and self-absorbed speeches and then said, “People start leaving his rallies early out of exhaustion and boredom.”

    I don’t know if people actually eave is rallies before they over or not, but here Trump could have said that people make plans o go home and people leave baseball games in the 7th inning and it doesn’t mean they don’t like the game or are bored

    She was baiting him, and he fell for it. He responded with a barrage of conspiracy theories and misinformation that culminated in a bizarre rant about immigrants and pets in Ohio. “In Springfield,” Trump said, “They’re eating the dogs. The people that came in, they’re eating the cats. They’re eating the pets of the people that live there.”

    In that moment, Trump amplified a truly strange claim that had spread through the online right over the days before. It’s hard to trace the origin of a rumor, but it blew up with a Sept. 6 post from a prominent right-wing account called End Wokeness, which claimed that “Springfield is a small town in Ohio. 4 years ago, they had 60k residents. Under Harris and Biden, 20,000 Haitian immigrants were shipped to the town. Now ducks and pets are disappearing.”

    This is different from a Facebook post

    The next day, a Malaysian MAGA influencer named Ian Miles Cheong posted about a disturbing incident in Ohio in which an American-born woman from Canton, Ohio, Allexis Telia Ferrell, is being prosecuted for killing and eating a cat. (She is pleading not guilty.)

    Cheong falsely speculated that she was Haitian, and MAGA ran with it. Benny Johnson, a MAGA influencer with 2.7 million followers on X (Johnson has been identified as one of the right-wing personalities who — perhaps unwittingly — received substantial payments from Russia),

    Russian disinformation! I told you do.

    posted that “THOUSANDS of Haitian Migrants

    One case quickly becomes the general rule

    TERRORIZE Ohio, EAT Family Pets, Cats, Dogs & Ducks.” Another MAGA influencer, a person who goes by the online name Catturd, posted, “Unless you want your pets eaten, you better vote for Trump.” Catturd has 2.9 million followers.

    It’s hard to describe the sheer weirdness of the discourse, which has also included investigations of whether Haitian immigrants are killing wild ducks or geese — something very different from stealing and killing a person’s pet — and featured a series of memes featuring heroic images of Trump protecting frightened kittens.,,,

    Sammy FInkelman (e4ef09)

  30. Beth Berlje, calling for ABC News to be federally prosecuted for “illegal contributions” to Harris’s campaign in the form
    of debate bias.

    It’s not a campaign contribution unless it is coordinated with or requested by the candidate, or his campaign, and Michael Cohen claimed that Donald Trump wanted him to advance the money to Stormy Daniels.

    Sammy FInkelman (e4ef09)

  31. @26 And note that Paul thinks an unsourced Steven Rattner tweet (unless he thinks “FBI, Jeff Asher, Light and AI” points somewhere) comprises an authoritative fact check, I suppose like he thinks the two other Democrats on the debate stage (for simplicity, let’s call them moderators) were authoritative fact checkers. Rattner, who has been a money man for the DNC and two Democrat administrations and a generic Democrat hack for decades.

    lloyd (88b2ee)

  32. Across the internet, Afghan women are committing what would be a crime in their homeland, ruled by the Taliban: They’re singing,

    Singing? If only it would be singing. They’re not being allowed to speak in public.

    There was a time when prostitutes, who could not dress revealingly, signaled their availability by singing.

    https://mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt1023.htm
    Isaiah 23:16

    16 Take a harp, go about the city, thou harlot long forgotten; make sweet melody, sing many songs, that thou mayest be remembered.

    Sammy FInkelman (e4ef09)

  33. They are now taking a few deadly automobile accidents and making them all Haitians.

    The cause is giving people temporary driver’s license and also someone who was hired as a school us driver with only a foreign license (not good in the United States) and besides he didn’t have a special grade of license.

    Sammy FInkelman (e4ef09)

  34. I look forward to Loomer commenting about JD Vance’s wife and how, if elected, the Naval Observatory will smell like curry.

    JD Vance mystifies me. He’s a real smart guy and he wrote a great, insightful book. He really cannot be the Trump stooge he plays on TV. His wife could pick any man she wanted, and she picked him. The best I can figure out is a “House of Cards” strategy where the VP takes over in a legal coup. But the ambition!

    Kevin M (2fc181)

  35. I agree with Patterico a lot, lloyd, but not on this, and Heritage has forsaken its roots and became a Trump subsidiary, drafting a Project 2025 for their leader, which their mercurial leader rejected.

    Paul Montagu (be56b4)

  36. They are now taking a few deadly automobile accidents and making them all Haitians.

    The cause is giving people temporary driver’s license and also …

    A better place to look would be California, where — with utterly jammed roads — the Democrats gave over a million illegal (yes, ILLEGAL) immigrants driver’s licenses. What happened? The roads got worse and bus ridership cratered. But at least these folks were no longer undocumented. Now they have free medical care, too.

    The most dangerous drivers are not 16yo boys, who at least have 16 year’s experience with cars, but folks of any age from cultures where there aren’t many cars and they’ve never ridden in one.

    Kevin M (2fc181)

  37. Paul Montagu (be56b4) — 9/13/2024 @ 3:39 pm

    Not really sure what you are saying there, Paul.

    Kevin M (2fc181)

  38. Here’s some more on Trump’s FakeNews “migrant crime wave”. Personally, I think the rest of the states should follow the Texas example, to find out whether the incarcerated are natural-born, legal immigrant or illegal immigrant.

    People arrested in Texas have their fingerprints sent to the DHS to determine immigration status. But some people in the country illegally have never been encountered by authorities and thus their fingerprints are not on file. The Texas Department of Criminal Justice conducts a further investigation to determine whether someone in prison is in the country legally. The result is an unusually rich insight into the immigration status of people arrested and incarcerated in the state.

    Nowrasteh, starting in 2018, wrote a series of reports that showed the conviction rates for serious crimes in Texas were much lower for undocumented immigrants than native-born Americans. Light, in a 2020 report, concluded that, in Texas, there are significantly lower felony arrest rates among undocumented immigrants compared with legal immigrants.

    I keep telling Trump supporters to presume everything he says is false until proven true, because so little of what he says is proven true, but y’all just won’t listen.

    Paul Montagu (be56b4)

  39. Two minutes of Trump and Loomer. As Catoggio would say, they’re nuttier than squirrel turds.
    If the Dems were smart, they’d pull a Lee Atwater (where his goal was to portray Willie Horton as Dukakis running mate) and tie Loony Laura to Trump’s hip.

    Paul Montagu (be56b4)

  40. But (Laura Looner) can’t be so stupid as to actually believe what she says and nobody genuinely for Trump (even out of self-interest) could want her around.

    Yes she can, and gullible MAGAites gobble it up.

    Rip Murdock (310c2f)

  41. LOL!

    ………..
    ………. Trump was asked whether he will endorse Garvey in the Senate race against U.S. Rep. Adam Schiff.

    “I don’t know much about Steve Garvey. I think he’s made a big mistake because he hasn’t reached out to MAGA,” Trump said. “If he doesn’t have MAGA, he has no chance.”

    The former major league baseball player has distanced himself from the Republican presidential nominee as he campaigns in deep blue California.

    “I’m hearing he wants the MAGA endorsement, but he’s got to call me. If he had the MAGA endorsement, he could win,” Trump added.

    No Republican has won a statewide office in California since 2006.
    ………….

    Garvey won’t win with or without MAGA. The September Emerson poll for the California Senate race has Adam Schiff 22 points ahead of Garvey (55-33). According to the latest campaign finance reports, Schiff has $3M more cash on hand than Garvey.

    Trump also claimed that the landslides destroying homes in Rancho Palos Verdes wouldn’t have happened if he was President. 😉

    Rip Murdock (310c2f)

  42. Good one by Bill Maher.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  43. What an amazing sh1tshow. Back in 2015 I suggested that Trump was a Democrat plant, there to destroy the Republican Party. I see no reason to think otherwise.

    Kevin M (515290)

  44. Trump is a Nikita, a deep cover sleeper, procured from an SS home for unwed mothers by Lavrenti Beria, and planted with Fred and Mary Anne to destroy America.

    Has anybody seen his original birth certificate?

    Why was his first wife a Czechoslovakian at a time when only StB (read KGB) agents were allowed to leave the Iron Curtain?

    Why did first his divorce and remarriage to an American girl coincide with the collapse of the Soviet Bloc?

    Why did his second divorce and remarriage to a woman from Communist former Yugoslavia coincide with the restructuring of Russia and the rise of Putin?

    Why is he buddy-buddy with Elon Musk whose dream is to have everyone in America drive electric vehicles, eradicating the internal combustion engine and destroying our way of life?

    nk (bb1548)

  45. All this isn’t to say that Kamala Harris should be president.

    Kevin M (1b9482)

  46. @37 Sure Paul, Heritage isn’t a good source but Steven Rattner is. Because you’re a true conservative.

    A town of 70,000 like Springfield OH which has had to deal with the influx of 15,000 migrants should be asking for more, because that’ll bring the crime rate down. It’s perplexing why they’re just don’t lay back and enjoy it. When are you going to laud Trump for torpedoing the border bill last year? To believe folks like you, he’s single-handedly lowered America’s crime rate. Looks like you didn’t want it to pass either.

    lloyd (111b90)

  47. Eric Adams, Hochul, Pritzker, Maura Healy, Steven Rattner’s Martha’s Vineyard — they’ve all ushered out migrants to small towns like Springfield. Because they just want to share the lower crime rates with the little people.

    lloyd (111b90)

  48. All this isn’t to say that Kamala Harris should be president.

    Yes, it does mean that Kamala should be elected President.

    There is more to America than the sum of our unwanted pregnancies and high-capacity semi-automatic firearms.

    Even in 2016, we had the comfort of thinking that whichever power-seeking crapweasel was elected, America would still survive.

    We do not have that luxury this time around.

    Wee have seen the poison in the apple.

    nk (bb1548)

  49. Congressional insanity:

    …………..
    The Senate in May unanimously passed a measure that would prevent the Internal Revenue Service from assessing penalties to freed hostages who didn’t file or pay taxes during their ordeal. On Wednesday, the House Ways and Means Committee unanimously advanced similar legislation.

    But the House committee packaged the hostage tax bill with a measure that would make it easier for the government to strip tax-exempt status from nonprofit groups over allegations of support for terrorism.

    And because of an arcane procedural step Congress took to try to speed passage of the hostage bill, that move probably prevented it from becoming law.

    The Senate used an obscure tool called a “deeming resolution” to approve the hostage provision — it unanimously declared that once the legislation passes the House, it would also be considered passed by the Senate. But if the bill is altered in any way in the House, the Senate’s action is moot.

    The House bill, though, is different from the Senate’s because of the section on nonprofits. ………..
    ………….
    But there’s very little time left in the congressional session, so the Senate probably will not be able to consider the bill this year, and lawmakers will have to start the process from the beginning in 2025.
    ……………
    When Post columnist Jason Rezaian returned to the United States in 2016 after 544 days in Iranian captivity, he paid a $6,000 tax penalty. ………….. The IRS has a long-standing practice of forgiveness for people who are held hostage by non-state organizations, including Hamas and groups like the Islamic State or Boko Haram, Rezaian said. The goal of the new bill is to expand that to people held by foreign governments, like Russia or China.
    …………..

    The only reason to attach an unrelated item to the tax relief provision is to sabotage its passage. There is no other explanation.

    Rip Murdock (f19196)

  50. 48 & 49. We can’t worry about everything. Let’s let Laura Loomer worry about that.

    And, whatever you do, DO NOT accept a dinner invitation from Hannibal Lecter!

    nk (bb1548)

  51. @37 Sure Paul, Heritage isn’t a good source but Steven Rattner is. Because you’re a true conservative.

    One, I never said I was a “true” conservative. You’re making sh-t up.
    Two, Heritage has gone full MAGA, so it’d be foolish to take their issues at their word.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  52. True

    Scholars Confirm For Jesus’s Second Miracle He Turned White Claws Back Into Water

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  53. Speaking of violent crime, Trump is lying that it’s way up, because it’s way down.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  54. “Daddy, was MJ better than LeBron?”
    Yes, son, he was.”

    A few months before Michael returned to the NBA, a good college friend of mine ran into him at a gym where he made a surprise appearance and played some pick-up with the members. He said Michael played like a 7-footer, not just for his leaping ability but for his hands, their strength and the way he can palm a basketball. MJ is a Ferrari, with all the flair and style. LeBron is a high-end Ram with a double Hemi.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  55. @55 Paul, the only fact revealed in this comment is that you like to tout unsourced claims by Democrat partisans. Which isn’t really a revelation.

    lloyd (3c103e)

  56. Except they were sourced, lloyd, both times. Why are you making sh-t up?

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  57. Russell Moore is correct. The title and subhead…

    Trump’s Lie Is Another Test for Christian America
    If we’re willing to see children terrorized because of a false rumor about Haitian immigrants, we should ask who abducted our conscience, not someone’s pet.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  58. @58 “FBI, Jeff Asher, Light et AI” is a link to data in your world, I guess.

    lloyd (3c103e)

  59. Yes, they were sourced, lloyd. Noted, that you moved the goalposts to linked.

    It’s weird how, of all the free societies and free market economies out there, Heritage chose to pal around with a dictator wannabe like Orban, which is only somewhat freer than Ukraine and is ranked 73rd in economic freedom by your very own Heritage Foundation. What’s with that?

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  60. Just say no

    The families of American hostages being held by Hamas have pressed the White House to seriously consider cutting a unilateral deal with the terrorist organization to secure their loved ones’ release, and the option is currently under discussion within the Biden administration, according to five people familiar with the discussions.

    …………. Administration officials told the families that they would explore “every option,” but a deal with Hamas that includes Israel is still the best approach, people familiar with the conversation said.
    ………….
    There are four remaining American hostages being held by Hamas that the U.S. believes are alive, and the administration is seeking the return of the remains of three others who are believed to be dead.
    …………
    But, in a sign that a unilateral deal has been explored internally, the Biden administration pulled together a list of prisoners in the U.S. whose release Hamas might be interested in securing as part of an agreement that would free the kidnapped Americans, according to two former and two current U.S. officials familiar with the planning. One of the officials said there are five individuals on the list.
    …………
    One administration official said the idea of a unilateral deal with Hamas is unrealistic because the U.S. does not have enough to offer in exchange for the American hostages.
    …………
    “Hamas wants two things that only Israel can deliver: a cease-fire and nearly 1,000 Palestinian prisoners currently in Israeli jails. Every other proposal has gone nowhere because that is what Hamas demands for the hostages,” the official added. ……….
    …………
    The U.S. list of possible prisoners Hamas could be interested in seeing released includes five leaders of a Texas-based charity, Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development, who were convicted in 2008 of providing more than $12 million to Hamas, which had been designated by the U.S. as a terrorist organization, according to the current and former U.S. officials.

    Two of the leaders of the charity, Shukri Abu Baker and Ghassan Elashi, are serving 65-year prison sentences. Mohammad El-Mezain and Abdulrahman Odeh were sentenced to 15 years in prison.

    Mufid Abdulqader was given a 20-year sentence. Abdulqader is the brother of a former leader of Hamas.
    ………….

    Every time Israel trades thousands of Palestinian terrorists for dozens of hostages, they have been burned. Yahya Sinwar, the architect of the October 7th terrorist assault on Israel, was a beneficiary of one of these exchanges.

    And given the negative political reactions to Biden’s exchanges with the Russians, there is no political upside to freeing the Hamas financiers for the bodies of American victims of Hamas.

    Rip Murdock (f19196)

  61. More on Heritage from Tracinski, a conservative…

    Consider the fate of the Heritage Foundation, once a venerable conservative think tank that usually served as a kind of administration in waiting, staffed with right-of-center policy experts who could easily step in as cabinet secretaries and other political appointees whenever a Republican wins the White House. But inside reports from Heritage reveal that the think tank has dispensed with its thinkers.

    Some former staffers told me [Heritage president Kevin] Roberts has prioritized political messaging over policy formation. As Heritage becomes beholden to the MAGA movement’s political whims, these analysts allege, the organization is now following the mob rather than leading it, rendering serious policy work irrelevant….

    In July on Fox News, Roberts said it’s time for the United States to declare independence from the “liberal world order.”

    A report in The Dispatch has this doozy.

    In one encounter, a member of senior management approached a scholar to challenge the scholar’s stance on a policy issue, referencing a conflicting position taken by Fox News host Tucker Carlson on the air. The scholar recalled saying, “I don’t watch Tucker’s monologue anymore.” The senior staffer allegedly replied, “Well, you ought to watch it, because the people who pay your salary watch it.” This ethos may have made its way into the policy shop’s output, which increasingly resembles public positions taken by Carlson on topics ranging from election integrity to big tech.

    The storming of the Capitol was another sensitive topic for senior management. Coffey recalls being required by management to remove a Twitter post condemning the January 6 Capitol riots.

    Some employees went from avoiding criticism of January 6 to actively amplifying conspiracy theories related to that day’s events. That includes on the Daily Signal Podcast, where Daily Signal executive editor Rob Bluey hosted Julie Kelly—author of January 6: How Democrats Used the Capitol Protest to Launch a War on Terror Against the Political Right—in February 2022 for a conversation about the Capitol riot. During the conversation, Kelly accused Biden, former President George W. Bush, and the media of “colluding” to brand the day an insurrection: “It was like a Fusion GPS-type orchestrated campaign, PR campaign, but then a little more sinister behind the scenes.”

    I had some encounters with Julie Kelly back in my Federalist days, and she is without a doubt one of the worst, most dishonest, most viciously immoral people I have ever encountered. You can see why the old guard of Heritage analysts have been fleeing in droves.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  62. Wwwwhaaatt?, MAGAts pointing at the squirrel says the coyote doesn’t say what you claim the badger said to the chimpanzee who told the dog who told a different squirrel…“some people say”.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  63. @61 “Yes, they were sourced, lloyd. Noted, that you moved the goalposts to linked.”

    LOL Paul, you’re just being more ridiculous than usual. There is no data to back up the claims. Zilch. I have no preference whether you want to link to it, or USPS mail it. Move those goalposts wherever you like. As anyone could’ve guessed, you’ve got a big bag of nothing.

    lloyd (47ac57)

  64. There were no LEENNGGCs. I mean just because it’s true, if there aren’t links to the source…oh, you mean it’s a link to a sourced graphic, and you have to maybe click twice.

    You see, Paul, no LEENNGGCs so it can’t be true.

    Now, if you’d have said you heard it from a neighbor who heard it from a friend who heard it from their daughter you’d be golden.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  65. @50

    All this isn’t to say that Kamala Harris should be president.

    Yes, it does mean that Kamala should be elected President.

    There is more to America than the sum of our unwanted pregnancies and high-capacity semi-automatic firearms.

    Even in 2016, we had the comfort of thinking that whichever power-seeking crapweasel was elected, America would still survive.

    We do not have that luxury this time around.

    Wee have seen the poison in the apple.

    nk (bb1548) — 9/14/2024 @ 8:41 am

    That’s a great synopsis of a drama novel you got there… please show me where in the fiction section this book is at? It looks spicy!

    whembly (477db6)

  66. Go back to your crayons, Klink.

    lloyd (47ac57)

  67. There is no data to back up the claims.

    Rattner cited those sources for his numbers. All you’re saying is “I care about these facts, I don’t believe him because he’s a Democrat!” The irony is that you’re on side of a factless serial liar who can’t stop lying.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  68. @69 Crime went up 98% the day Biden Harris were sworn in. Violent crime up 170%.

    Source: FBI, Emerson, Lake, Palmer et AI

    lloyd (47ac57)

  69. More ad hominems expected, but violent crime is notably down under Biden, not up as Trump keeps dishonestly claiming.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  70. Putin says “BOO!” again and Biden blinked. Again. Sigh.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  71. Hmmm, it’s almost like there’s an inability to accept FBI and DoJ stats for what is going on today with crime. Reality must be twisted so that 30-something debate inaccuracies get whisked away. Where Trump understands the truth, he fails to say it. In other places, he’s probably just irresponsibly repeating what Laura Loomer is telling him. On the other side of the coin, crime is only loosely a President’s responsibility. It flows with the economy. When the economy improves, crime goes down (typically). The same with illegal immigration. Still, I want a President that tells more truths than untruths. It’s like in 2016 Trump complaining about Chinese currency manipulation….which was a dated charge. Same here. Trump should have stuck to immigration, cost of living, and Afghanistan….and stayed factual on those topics. His inability to do facts….followed by his fanatics defense of it…makes for serial unseriousness. The clown nose stock must be running low….

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  72. Confirmed: A majority of MAGAs are brainwashed idjits for believing Trump’s lies about dark-skinned illegal immigrants eating Fido and Whiskers.

    Independents disbelieve it more than 2-to-1, though.

    And 5 times as many independents are sure it’s false as are sure it’s true.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  73. Putin says “BOO!” again and Biden blinked. Again. Sigh.

    Paul Montagu (062117) — 9/14/2024 @ 1:42 pm

    Yes. I just heard on the news that the UK Prime Minister is in favor of letting Ukraine strike deeper into Russian territory, but Biden is afraid of allowing it. Wuss.

    norcal (fb89ff)

  74. Social media + populism is a dangerous brew.

    https://thedispatch.com/newsletter/gfile/the-crazy-contagion/

    Journalists have been known to get caught up in popular passion and outrage over injustices. The job of editors is to take that journalistic passion for truth telling and illuminating injustice and subject it to skepticism. Did the reporter get the facts right? Did she seek a contrary point of view? Did he do the due diligence?

    Our modern technology has cut out that editorial function from the process for millions of people. Social media is a conduit for rivers of nonsense, falsehood, fact free anger and passion. What we do about that is a complicated and difficult question.

    norcal (fb89ff)

  75. @71 Hey, drug crimes went down to near zero in Oregon the past several years, according to the numbers. Kate Brown must’ve done a fantastic job. The numbers don’t lie. Oh wait… they legalized drug possession all that time, including hard drugs like heroin. We’ve seen a pullback in law enforcement since Floyd. That doesn’t mean the crimes aren’t happening. The numbers in opinion polls tell a story you don’t want to hear. But, as with everything else, people just need to believe you rather than their lying eyes.

    If you want to treat the FBI numbers as gospel, they’re in the Pew report above. Except that Pew takes the big picture and goes back decades. Crime generally has dropped precipitously… since the early 1990s. It has leveled off the past few years. Perceptions as captured In opinion polls are what they are. I know you’re disappointed Trump isn’t dismissing them.

    lloyd (47ac57)

  76. @74 That doesn’t mean 5 times as many will vote for harris. Trumpsters are running ads in michigan reminding muslim voters that harris’s husband is jewish while attacking harris for being anti Israel everywhere else. Biden got 8 million more votes then trump in 2020 ;but won electoral collage by 43.000 votes combined in az, mi. and wi. Pa. has lost an electoral vote since 2020.

    asset (2e2965)

  77. @76 norcal, that’s worth a chuckle. If not for populist and independent social media, George Bush would’ve likely not won a second term.. There are countless other examples.

    lloyd (47ac57)

  78. lloyd, Trump lied about a “migrant crime” spree and he lied yesterday that “crime has skyrocketed under the Biden administration”. This isn’t hard, but thanks for telling me something I already about Oregon and their dumb decision to decriminalize hard drugs.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  79. Trump’s Proud Boys are marching in Springfield, OH, all because Trump lied about dark-skinned illegals poaching and eating cats and dogs.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  80. So, if Trump is elected and flops over (because you know, he’s an elderly man who doesn’t believe in things like exercise, portion control, or that vegetables exist), does anyone think JD Vance should be next in line? One demented moron that only cares about himself is one thing, Vance being a demented young man who believes and promotes some incredibly terrible things might be worse.

    One of the saving graces of Trump is he says he’s a dictator curious strongman, but he’s really a stupid lazy coward. What if he wasn’t, America doesn’t need a motivated wannabe Mussolini.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  81. 82. I expect a lot of people see it the same way. That’s why Trump picked J. the “D” is for Don’t Let Haitians Eat My Girlfriend Vance for VP. Assassination insurance.

    nk (bb1548)

  82. @80 Paul, I can’t take a fact check seriously that thinks Biden was president in 2020.

    lloyd (47ac57)

  83. So you missed the whole thing were 2020 was red and 2021 was blue? There’s being an MAGAt troll, and being a fat and lazy MAGAt troll.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  84. Those flagging Trump’s and Vance’s dementia were the same enlightened folks who thought Biden’s dementia episodes were cheap fakes and, after catching up on the breaking news three years late, would’ve voted for him anyway.

    lloyd (47ac57)

  85. Cool story bro. Was Biden Trump? Nope. Is Harris Trump? Nope. Was Nikki Trump? Nope.

    2 are going to be president because of Trump, one could have been.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  86. More dark side…the KKK are distributing flyers in Springfield, all because Trump lied about dark-skinned illegals poaching and eating cats and dogs.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  87. There’s dementia that is kept on the down low, and there is dementia that sends bomb threats that close down schools and government building and neo-Nazis marching through the streets.

    nk (bb1548)

  88. Klink, crayola is calling.

    lloyd (47ac57)

  89. @88 Yes Paul, just like the Reichstag Fire stunt at Youngkin’s rallies. Maybe The Lincoln Project ran out of boys to proposition.

    lloyd (47ac57)

  90. lloyd, I believe your first 7 words, “I can’t take a fact check seriously”. The rest, meh.

    THE FACTS: Violent crime surged during the pandemic, with homicides increasing nearly 30% in 2020 over the previous year — the largest one-year jump since the FBI began keeping records.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  91. So, assuming the cats and ducks story is completely false, I guess that means it’s okay to take a small town like Springfield and bulge its population by 25% with migrants. It all hinges on whether that story is true. Because there’s no other reason to have a problem with what was done to that town, unless you’re a racist or bigot. Glad that’s settled.

    lloyd (47ac57)

  92. lloyd, the Proud Boys, the KKK flyers, the bomb threats, the throwing acid on cars and so forth never would’ve happened had Trump not been that racist and lied in the first place, and you’re excusing this bullying and bigoted intimidation.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  93. On the contrary, he’s supporting it.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  94. Reichstag Fire and Kristallnacht are purely Trump trademarks (maybe even registered in China) and when you see them from Trump supporters you know it’s projection.

    nk (bb1548)

  95. @92 Meh. From your link:

    The report notes, however, that while the rate of violent victimizations in 2023 was higher than it was in 2020 and 2021, it was not statistically different from the rate in 2019, when Trump was president.

    Trump was president in 2020, making this “however” meaningless and deceptive. Focusing on one year 2019 is just the usual fact check cherry picking.

    lloyd (47ac57)

  96. By the way, lloyd, the Haitians were legal (not illegal as Trump liked about, over and over) and the town of Springfield wanted migrants to come there to economically revitalize their community, and their influx indeed helped.

    The city manager, Bryan Heck, explained that the Haitians were lawfully in the country. The police chief, Allison Elliott, said that Haitians were not responsible for the city’s yearslong struggle with crime such as retail theft. Commissioners said that they had come for job opportunities.
    […]
    By most accounts, the Haitians have helped revitalize Springfield.

    They are assembling car engines at Honda, running vegetable-packing machines at Dole and loading boxes at distribution centers. They are paying taxes on their wages and spending money at Walmart. On Sundays they gather at churches for boisterous, joyful services in Haitian Creole.

    But the speed and volume of arrivals have put pressure on housing, schools and hospitals. The community health clinic saw a 13-fold increase in Haitian patients between 2021 and 2023, from 115 to 1,500, overwhelming its staff and budget.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  97. @96 nk, folks paid Vance a lot of money to read his scribblings, and no one will pay a cent for yours. That’s probably caused a lot of resentment to build up. Let it go.

    lloyd (47ac57)

  98. @98 That’s great. I didn’t say they were illegal. Chicago, Denver and NYC leaders also invited migrants to come. They’ve since changed their mind, because the people in those cities had different thoughts on the matter than the leaders. And, don’t pretend that there aren’t many communities struggling with the influx who didn’t invite them. I’m sure that 98% of them are wonderful people. It’s just that the Steven Rattner’s of the world writing from his Martha’s Vineyard perch thinks they’re wonderful people as long as they’re stateside.

    lloyd (47ac57)

  99. Trump knows how to use racism. Racism put the whole Trump family where it is.

    American-born Japanese were interned. A first generation son of a German-born draft dodger was given contracts to build troop barracks during the war and after the war subsidized housing for veterans.

    nk (bb1548)

  100. The population of Springfield, Ohio hit 82,723 in the 1960 census, and fell in every census since then. As of 2023, it is estimated to be 58,082. It looks as if the arrival of Haitians may be slowing the population decline, or possibly even stopping it.

    Given that decline, it seems nearly certain that the city had much unused housing. According to some factory managers, the Haitians are filling jobs that were hard to fill, before their arrival. So, in both housing and jobs, they are filling gaps that need to be filled.

    The number of manufacturing jobs has increased in the last few years, which supports that conclusion.

    (Interestingly, Ohio Governor Mike DeWine is from Springfield.)

    Jim Miller (8681d2)

  101. @93, it’s really too bad that the GOP nominee screamed “they’re eating your pets” rather then make that point.

    Time123 (21d558)

  102. @96 nk, folks paid Vance a lot of money to read his scribblings, and no one will pay a cent for yours. That’s probably caused a lot of resentment to build up. Let it go.

    Ha, ha, ha! Folks have paid Trump magnitudes more just to hear his gibberish.

    J. the “D” is Overeducated Trailer Trash Vance should be the one who is resentful. I am content with cents I have.

    nk (bb1548)

  103. Worth reading: This essay by Richard Dawkins, “Race Is a Spectrum. Sex Is Pretty Damn Binary”.

    The reason inheritance often seems to be blending—the reason we seem to be a mixture of paternal with maternal, and the reason racial intermarriage leads to a spectrum of intermediates—is polygenes. Though every gene is particulate, lots of genes each contribute their own small effect to, for example, skin colour. And all these small effects together add up to what looks intermediate. It isn’t really like mixing paint but it looks that way if enough particulate polygenes sum up their small effects. If you mix beads it looks that way too, if the beads are small, numerous and viewed from a distance.

    Anyway, the point that is relevant to this essay is that particulate, Mendelian, all-or-none, non-blending inheritance was staring Darwin, and Jenkin, and everybody else in the face. It was staring them in the face all along, in the form of the non-blending inheritance of sex. Sex is pretty damn binary.

    The most interesting point in the essay — for me — is footnote 2, in which he argues that true intersex cases are much rarer than often claimed. (We should, of course treat such people with compassion, regardless of how many there are.)

    Jim Miller (8681d2)

  104. I’m pretty sure Mike was born in Yellow Springs and grew up there. Yellow Springs is one of the most historically progressive towns in the US, BTW. It’s only about 10 miles from Springfield but it’s a different world.

    My sister went to Wittenberg in the 90s and Springfield was a dying city then. As Columbus gentrified, the upwardly mobile Sprinfielders bailed to parts unknown, but generally Columbus or the Southern Dayton/Northern Cincy suburbs, and the poor of Columbus began migrating in. It was in kind of a death spiral until 2005’ish when the cheap, but historic, neighborhoods were gobbled up by new college grads working remotely and developed a few hipster areas. The 2008 real estate bubble hit it pretty hard, nothing worse than a half gentrified neighborhood with the gentrified losing everything in a housing collapse, and it has only really started to have some flattening of the curve post Covid.

    It was never a terribly racist city, not a sundowner town, and was pretty integrated, although mostly poor.

    It wasn’t a terribly racist city 2 weeks ago either, but something changed…hmmm, what could it be?

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  105. Why are people getting so worked up about what people call themselves? Who cares, other than confusing me, I don’t care if it’s him/her/them or they’re sleeping with him/her/them or all together. Not my business, I’ve never met a gay or trans person that has been a bigger dillhole than all these people complaining about them.

    STFU and work on yourself, when you’re perfect, just be satisfied. Hint, that is never.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  106. I didn’t say they were illegal.

    I didn’t say you did, the point was that Trump lied about them being illegal.
    Hopefully, there will come a time soon where the dust will settle in Springfield and the Haitians can come together and roast a pig, just like what Kamala did last Tuesday.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  107. Speaking of dust settling, did you notice that this Kristallnacht against Springfield, Ohio instigated by Trump took “childless cat ladies” and free IVF off the board before people started asking: “Who are a couple of peckerwood politicians to tell us how to have kids? Are they running for President and Vice President of the United States or of Planned Parenthood?”

    nk (bb1548)

  108. One other thing before I move on to something else.
    The immigrants-eating-pets tale was debunked days before the debate, but Trump still went there and inflated the lie and divisively inflamed another situation, like the bully he is, and his Right Wing just goes right along, including the bullying. Well f-ck that.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  109. 110. Could be that Trump cannot say no to Laura Loonier any more than Thomas and Alito can say no Ginni and Martha Ann.

    But we’re not likely to see full-blown John Edwards-Rielle Hunter denouement giving Trump reason to be thankful for small favors.

    nk (bb1548)

  110. All this isn’t to say that Kamala Harris should be president.

    Yes, it does mean that Kamala should be elected President.

    While it is a given that Trump should not be, the ONLY reason that Harris should be is that it is either her or Trump. There are literally a thousand people I’d prefer.

    Kevin M (ddc158)

  111. @108 Yeah, if they claimed asylum and they’re just economic refugees then they’re here when by law they shouldn’t be. That’s not their fault, unless they misrepresented their situation. Asylum enforcement is a joke, and I’ll judge Mayorkas, Biden and Harris rather than the Haitians. I’ll let others here, unaffected and safely insulated far away, judge those impacted by the influx. It’s a great look.

    The Haitians are a reminder of the horse whips lie years back, when Border Patrol agents were suspended for at least a year, just to allow this administration to save face. Biden and Harris whipped up hate against those agents serving our country, for no valid reason. They didn’t give a damn about them. I imagine it was crickets here, in contrast to the outrage now. I’ll have to look through the archives when I’m really bored, but I doubt I need to.

    lloyd (47ac57)

  112. There’s been an immigrant or more in every generation of Trumps. His grandparents, his mother, and two of his wives (and mothers of four of his children. But they passed the light meter.

    nk (bb1548)

  113. Trump’s paternal grandfather should never have been admitted to the United States:

    Born and raised in Kallstadt in what was then the Kingdom of Bavaria, Trump immigrated to the United States in 1885. In 1891, he began speculating in real estate in Seattle. During the Klondike Gold Rush, he moved to the Yukon and made his fortune by operating a restaurant and a brothel for miners in Whitehorse.[2][3]

    In 1901, Trump returned to Kallstadt and married Elisabeth Christ. As he had purportedly immigrated to the United States in order to evade conscription, the Bavarian Government stripped him of his citizenship in 1905. Consequently, he returned to the United States with his family.

    After three generations, I think it is fair to describe the Trumps as a crime family.

    (It would be interesting to know how much of this Trump family affinity for crime is nature, and how much nurture — but questions like that can’t easily be asked in public these days. FWIW, I am inclined to think it mostly nurture.)

    Jim Miller (8681d2)

  114. #114 It’s good to know that there are jobs that most American women simply won’t do.

    (If I recall correctly, Melania got a change in their pre-nup before she moved into the White House.)

    Jim Miller (8681d2)

  115. It would be interesting to know how much of this Trump family affinity for crime is nature, and how much nurture

    They are difficult to separate because the influence of the parents over the child extends beyond his birth, but in either case pedigree matters.

    nk (bb1548)

  116. George Will has switched, arrogantly so.

    This election pits someone whose current persona is obviously synthetic against someone whose dishonesty in the service of his egotism is scarily authentic. Now, however, traditional conservatives can envision the least unpalatable November outcome. They have an unenthralled understanding of government’s proper scope and actual competence. So, their preferred outcome would be the election of Harris, and of a Republican Senate to regularly remind her that most Americans disagree with most of what she believes.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  117. Me and George Will, (/2[]$$[-|) |=!|\|(_+[-/2$, that’s me on top.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  118. Paul Montagu (062117) — 9/14/2024 @ 8:02 pm

    I agree with Will. Kamala with a Republican Senate is preferable to Trump with a Democrat Senate, and either scenario is preferable to the same party controlling the Presidency and the Senate.

    norcal (fb89ff)

  119. Hrrmm…

    The woman whose social media post helped ignite false claims of pets being eaten in Springfield, Ohio, said Friday the post was based on a rumor and that she feels remorse for the Haitian immigrants.

    Erika Lee, a Springfield resident, recently authored a post on Facebook, saying that her neighbor’s cat was lost and she was told it was because the pet was attacked by a Haitian immigrant.

    Kimberly Newton, Lee’s neighbor, acknowledged this week to NewsGuard, “I don’t actually know the person who lost the cat.” Newton added that the cat’s owner was “an acquaintance of a friend.”

    Now, Lee, has said she was sorry about the way the events unfolded, with the unfounded conspiracy theories about Haitian immigrants amplified by both former President Trump and his vice presidential pick, Ohio Sen. JD Vance (R).

    “It just exploded into something I didn’t mean to happen,” Lee said in an interview with NBC News on Friday.

    Lee, whose Facebook post has been deleted, stated she did not expect that local gossip would spiral into a national story.

    “I’m not a racist,” she said. “Everybody seems to be turning it into that, and that was not my intent.”

    Lee said she is mixed race and her daughter is half Black.

    “I feel for the Haitian community,” Lee told NBC. “If I was in the Haitians’ position, I’d be terrified, too, worried that somebody’s going to come after me because they think I’m hurting something that they love and that, again, that’s not what I was trying to do.”

    So, I’m sure that Trump and Vance, who have quintupled down that it was true, will correct their claims right, right?

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  120. The best that can happen is that they’ll stop repeating it.

    But maybe them repeating it is better because that’s the way to get it widely known as debunked.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  121. “I don’t actually know the person who lost the cat.” Newton added that the cat’s owner was “an acquaintance of a friend.”

    That means she lied.

    I think the motive was politics.

    The New York Post mentioned in an editorial that some people in Springfield are getting death threats – and some of them are directed at people not widely known outside Springfield. They claim that means it is local, but it could also be the result of data collecting and spying and so on. This might have been planned for some time.

    Now, Lee, has said she was sorry about t

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  122. lloyd (47ac57) — 9/14/2024 @ 4:06 pm

    So, assuming the cats and ducks story is completely false, I guess that means it’s okay to take a small town like Springfield and bulge its population by 25% with migrants.

    t was the free market that sent them there. Nobody in the federal government, or any state government, sent Haitians to Springfield. (or else ask, why just Haitians?) They were mostly or originally secondary movements of people, mostly from
    Florida,

    And they’re not causing a problem except to the extent that anything that happens can cause problems for some people and benefit others. They have to lie about problems.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  123. Paul Montagu (062117) — 9/14/2024 @ 3:21 pm

    lloyd, Trump lied about a “migrant crime” spree

    He might not have i> known it was untrue, but he should have figured it out and he also doesn’t care whether it is true or not but whether people will believe it.

    and he lied yesterday that “crime has skyrocketed under the Biden administration”.

    It “skyrocketed” under his administration.

    But because of locally elected Democrats.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  124. Mexico just went through a January 6, and people hardly noticed:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/12/world/americas/mexico-courts-overhaul-states-approve.html

    This week, some protesters stormed into the Senate, calling on lawmakers to block the overhaul and forcing them to temporarily suspend debate on the amendment. The police eventually dispersed the demonstrations with fire extinguishers, and the Senate resumed in a vitriolic session, with lawmakers calling each other “liars” and “traitors.”

    They are politicizing (and possibly corrupting) the courts,

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  125. The only reason to attach an unrelated item to the tax relief provision is to sabotage its passage. There is no other explanation.

    Rip Murdock (f19196) — 9/14/2024 @ 8:44 am

    And blame Democrats because they would not accept the second provision..

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  126. What is true: In the last 9-12 months, members of a Venezuelan gang have joined the migration, and they’ve been assembling and reconstituting themselves. This gang may have liks to the Maduro government.

    They passed the screening (after the authorities understood abiout the tattoos, the youngest members hve not been getting tattoos)

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  127. I heard Friday, near the start of the CBS Evening News, that Trump has vowed to start a massive deportation operation in Springfield Ohio

    Meanwhile the eating pets story has apparently been extended to include allegations about this taking place in Dayton, Ohio.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  128. From the New York Trump Gerbil:

    Two Springfield, Ohio, hospitals locked down as more bomb threats rock city amid migrant crisis tensions

    “Migrant crisis tensions.” The Trump camp really believes that they can sell sh!t as chocolate. And why shouldn’t they believe it? They’ve been doing it with Trump himself since 2015.

    nk (bb1548)

  129. ‘Clearly chicken you weirdo’: People respond to JD Vance sharing video he claims shows migrants grilling cats
    The “gotcha” footage posted online by Vance may not be the slam dunk he apparently hoped it would be

    Republican vice-presidential candidate Senator JD Vance continues to stoke outrage against foreign-born members of his own constituency, sharing video footage with his 1.9 million social media followers that he claimed showed African migrants in Dayton, Ohio “eating cats” — but instead appears to show nothing more than poultry cooking on an outdoor grill.
    ….
    Backlash was swift, with replies ranging from, “I find it strange that a self-professed ‘hillbilly’ doesn’t know what whole chickens look like,” to, “HOW DO YOU NOT KNOW WHAT CHICKENS LOOK LIKE WITH THEIR LEGS ATTACHED YOU F****ING DIPSH[]T.” Oliver Alexander, an open-source intelligence analyst, weighed in, sharing images of plucked chickens looking remarkably similar to whatever was being grilled in the video. “Clearly chicken you weirdo. Dude’s never seen chicken that wasn’t dino-nugget shaped,” he wrote.

    I can’t even ….

    nk (bb1548)

  130. There is no “migrant crisis.” It’s just not happening.

    lloyd (3c55c0)

  131. Not happening.

    lloyd (3c55c0)

  132. Not happening here either.

    lloyd (3c55c0)

  133. No not here.

    lloyd (3c55c0)

  134. Not happening anywhere.

    lloyd (3c55c0)

  135. It’s just fiction.

    lloyd (3c55c0)

  136. The people making the bomb threats are complaining abot the migrants.

    This makes no sense

    I see this as a pro-Trump operation, of whatever origin that’s been subverted by pro-Democrats or people with complex political motives.

    Meanwhile JD Vance is dealing with this as best he can. Saying people should be talking about the strain on social services, blaming Kamala Harris (no mention of Biden) for the Haitians, mentioning the idea of cultural practices in passing (suddenly, it’s true??)

    He’s saying he’s getting complaints from constituents and saying what if the new reports were 20 miles closer to Springfield would it be different – and why are we talking about Looper – she’s not a candidate..

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  137. You are not putting lipstick on a pig, lloyd. You’re putting it on two piles of pigsh!t who should not be allowed to within 1,000 miles of the White House.

    The lying, cheating, conniving degenerates are not talking about all the things you claim they are really talking about. They are promulgating a disgusting and dangerous lie which defines bearing false witness.

    nk (bb1548)

  138. Et tu, Sammy?

    nk (bb1548)

  139. Look at you, nk. So many many nk comments about the migrant crisis, because Trump and Vance baited you, when you really desperately don’t want to talk about it at all.

    lloyd (3c55c0)

  140. Somebody didn’t get the campaign memo:

    ………..
    Speaking to “This Week” co-anchor Martha Raddatz, (Ohio Republican Gov. Mike DeWine) repeatedly noted that the immigrants are in Ohio legally and praised their work ethic, stridently swatting away claims that they are eating neighbors’ pets — unsubstantiated conspiracy theories promoted by Trump and his allies.

    “I think it’s unfortunate that this came up. Let me tell you what we do know, though. What we know is that the Haitians who are in Springfield are legal. They came to Springfield to work. Ohio is on the move, and Springfield has really made a great resurgence with a lot of companies coming in. These Haitians came in to work for these companies,” DeWine said.

    “What the companies tell us is that they are very good workers. They’re very happy to have them there, and frankly, that’s helped the economy. Now, are there problems connected? Well, sure. When you go from a population of 58,000 and add 15,000 people onto that, you’re going to have some challenges and some problems. And we’re addressing those,” he added.
    …………..
    “Look, there’s a lot of garbage on the internet and, you know, this is a piece of garbage (that Haitians in Springfield were eating neighbors’ dogs and cats) that was simply not true. There’s no evidence of this at all,” DeWine said on “This Week.”
    ……………
    …………… “But what’s going on in Springfield is just fundamentally different (than what’s happening at the border.) These people are here legally. They came to work.”
    ###########

    Rip Murdock (f19196)

  141. Vance admitted he’s making up stories about people eating cats to “highlight the suffering of his people” – the suffering being having to live with foreign-born brown people.

    Trump followed that up with stating he hates Taylor Swift.

    And all of this to distract for his horrible debate performance.

    SamG (4e6c22)

  142. One, Trump’s campaign could be reacting like this to his “truth”, the one where he stated, “I HATE TAYLOR SWIFT!”

    Two, from Patterico: “Yup, he said it.”

    “If I have to create stories so that the American media actually pays attention to the suffering of the American people, then that’s what I’m going to do.”

    The migrant situation is of course a legitimate issue, but Trump and Vance should be able to address it without all the lying.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  143. The migrant situation is a serious issue, Trump and Vance are distinctly not serious.

    It’s such a serious problem that Trump has actively tried to make border security worse.

    1)Killing the bipartisan bill to address it.

    2)Actively making it worse during his time in the White House. Focusing so much on a wall that, again wasn’t built not even a fiftieth, and putting Adolf Miller in as chief border spokesmodel. He had a chance to do something, but since that required effort, he tried to executive order it in twitter bleats and was struck down left and right by the courts.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  144. In the actual cases of abducting and killing pets in Vance’s own home town, all of the dirty pet murderers have one thing in common, guess what it is?

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  145. I find it amazing that we have had an immigrant crisis that will change the culture/ruin the country every year for over 50 years and yet somehow the country hasn’t been culturally changed or ruined. My school hasn’t had a Latino gangs problem in over 15 years despite the rhetoric that MS-13 was going to kill us all. What we have are ongoing border issues. They aren’t going to be solved by the “Haitians are eating our pets” “don’t vote for a bipartisan border bill so that I can get elected” people. Maybe they won’t be solved by the other guys either, but at least the other guys aren’t causing bomb threats in rural Ohio.

    Nic (120c94)

  146. Des Moines Register/Mediacom Iowa Poll 9/15/24

    ………..
    A new Des Moines Register/Mediacom Iowa Poll shows that Trump leads Vice President Harris 47% to 43% among likely Iowa voters — a far slimmer margin than the 18-point lead the former Republican president enjoyed over Democratic President Biden in late spring.

    Before Biden ended his reelection campaign, a June Iowa Poll showed Trump leading 50% to 32%.
    ………….
    Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who has abandoned his independent presidential campaign but will remain on the Iowa ballot, gets 6% of the vote. That’s down from 9% in June.
    …………….
    It also shows a sharp divide between men and women likely voters — Trump leads with men 59% to 32% over Harris. And Harris leads with women 53% to 36%.

    (Pollster J. Ann Selzer, president of Selzer & Co., whose firm conducted the poll) said the poll findings “signal a change in the mood of the electorate.”
    ………….
    Women show an 8-percentage-point uptick in likely voting since June, Iowans younger than 45 show a 10-point increase, city dwellers show a 6-point bounce, and those with a college degree are up 9 points.

    Each of those groups gives plurality support to Kamala Harris.
    …………..
    According to the poll, 80% of Harris’ supporters say they are extremely or very enthusiastic about her as their choice for president — compared with 74% of Trump’s supporters.
    …………..

    Rip Murdock (9f7eec)

  147. On Goose Hunting

    Ruffed grouse hunting season: Nov. 1 to Dec. 1, 2024 in 17 southern and eastern counties: Adams, Athens, Belmont, Gallia, Guernsey, Jackson, Lawrence, Meigs, Monroe, Morgan, Muskingum, Noble, Pike, Ross, Scioto, Vinton and Washington. The daily limit is one bird.
    Waterfowl hunting seasons: The north zone duck, coot and merganser hunting season are open Oct. 19-27, 2024 and again from Nov. 16, 2024, to Jan. 5, 2025.
    The Lake Erie marsh zone duck, coot and merganser hunting season dates are Oct. 12-27, 2024, and again from Nov. 9 to Dec. 22, 2024.
    Goose and brant hunting season dates in the Lake Erie marsh zone: Oct. 12-27, 2024, and again from Nov. 16, 2024, to Feb. 3, 2025.
    Youth and military waterfowl hunting weekend: Sept. 28-29, 2024.

    Last year was similar.

    So lot’s of folks go goose hunting, are brown people not allowed.

    Plus Vance doesn’t know the difference between a cat and a chicken.

    I don’t believe it, he knows exactly what he’s doing

    It’s weird that Trump and Vance are putting Ohio in play. At this point I think they’re actively trying to lose as many states as possible, then throw it out as an “unbelievably” corrupt election. Just losing by kind of a lot is not exciting, either win/lose bigly.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  148. A quarter of Republicans think Trump should seize power even if he loses

    That’s the determination of new national polling from PRRI.………
    ………..
    In it, Americans were presented with a number of questions aimed specifically at measuring authoritarian sympathies. One measure, what the researchers refer to as the “Right-Wing Authoritarianism Scale” (RWAS), measured respondents’ agreement with four statements:

    • “The only way our country can get through the crisis ahead is to get back to our traditional values, put some tough leaders in power, and silence the troublemakers spreading bad ideas.

    • “Our country will be destroyed someday if we do not smash the perversions eating away at our moral fiber and traditional beliefs.

    • “What our country really needs is a strong, determined leader who will crush evil, and take us back to our true path.

    • “Our country will be great if we honor the ways of our forefathers, do what the authorities tell us to do, and get rid of the ‘rotten apples’ who are ruining everything.”

    Those who completely or mostly agreed with most or all of the statements were rated as having high scores. A parallel measure, referred to as the “Child-Rearing Authoritarianism Scale,” was evaluated in a similar way.

    In each case, about 4 in 10 Americans received high scores. But, in each case, those scores were higher among Republicans. ……..
    …………
    PRRI also presented respondents with specific situations aimed at measuring their willingness to set aside democratic processes. About a quarter of Republicans said that Americans needed to “ensure the rightful leader takes office” if 2024 is “compromised by voter fraud” — including by taking violent actions. The same percentage said that Trump should “do whatever it takes” to become president if he isn’t confirmed as the winner in November.
    ………….

    Rip Murdock (9f7eec)

  149. Pew Research Poll-How Harris and Trump should govern-9/9/24:

    Percentages are those supporters who find it acceptable to:

    Using executive orders to make policy

    Trump Supporters-58%
    Harris Supporters-55%

    Ordering law enforcement to investigate political opponents

    Trump Supporters-54%
    Harris Supporters-27%

    Firing federal workers who are not personally loyal to them

    Trump Supporters-41%
    Harris Supporters-12%

    Pardoning friends, family or supporters who have been convicted of a crime

    Trump Supporters-42%
    Harris Supporters-8%

    Rip Murdock (9f7eec)

  150. Good grief, another shooting. Beat him at the polls, not with guns.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  151. I’m predicting a very cynical next two weeks over Ukraine and Billions of $$ in Presidential Drawdown Authority that are due to expire.
    This is entirely on Biden Administration because they could have handled this weeks ago and kicked the can down the road to here. Biden could probably still get his extension if the Democrats would send a stripped down request just for this extension, but instead they will add a bunch of stuff that they already know the Republicans will object to into the bill. Then they can go to all the Ukrainian American voters Pennsylvania (60,000) and say “look!” then they will go to the super majority, 77% of people in Michigan, who think we should arm Ukraine and allow it to enter NATO and say “look”. Of course Ukrainians in Ukraine are the pawns.

    The US is accused of strong arming Romania regarding Russian drone crossing Romanian airspace enroute to Odesa- strong arming Romania into not shooting the drone down, but instead “shepherding” the drone through a corridor. (as long as the drone stays on direct course to Odesa they are shadowed by Romanian F16’s and allowed to continue into Ukraine) This is unverified, but a drone did travel through Romania to Odesa. I realize Biden (Jake Sullivan) thinks Russia will escalate if “provoked” but airspace should be our own redline. “It flies in here, it goes down”.
    I’ll go out on a limb and say that a Harris Presidency has a better than 50% chance in seeing the use of a Russian tactical nukes on Ukraine within the 6 months after the election is called. Russia gets a subjugated Ukraine, it can sell whatever it wants to energy hog China and import western goods, bypassing sanctions by using Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan as intermediaries (if you care to, look up import increases from EU countries to these countries since 2022. Up 200-400%)

    steveg (63a4a5)

  152. Go back to bitching about Haitians, Paul. You care as much about Trump’s life as Kabala does.

    VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: Well let’s talk about extreme. And understand the context in which this election in 2024 is taking place. The United States Supreme Court recently ruled that the former president would essentially be immune from any misconduct if he were to enter the white house again. Understand, this is someone who has openly said he would terminate, I’m quoting, terminate the constitution of the United States. That he would weaponize the Department of Justice against his political enemies. Someone who has openly expressed disdain for members of our military. Understand what it would mean if Donald Trump were back in the white house with no guardrails. Because certainly, we know now the court won’t stop him. We know JD Vance is not going to stop him. It’s up to the American people to stop him.

    DAVID MUIR: Vice President Harris, thank you. Linsey?

    LINDSEY DAVIS: Vice President Harris, in your last run for president…

    FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: This is the one that weaponized. Not me. She weaponized. I probably took a bullet to the head because of the things that they say about me.

    Or maybe your heart will grow 3 times and you will condemn her rhetoric?

    BuDuh (8710bf)

  153. I didn’t close the block quote. The last line is directed straight at you, Paul.

    BuDuh (8710bf)

  154. I’ll go out on a limb and say that a Harris Presidency has a better than 50% chance in seeing the use of a Russian tactical nukes on Ukraine within the 6 months after the election is called.

    Since the radiation will certainly cross national borders into NATO countries, you don’t think the West will retaliate?

    Rip Murdock (9f7eec)

  155. You sound angry, BuDuh. Why don’t you go back to ConservativeTreehouse and get to work on your trolling skills, because they suck.

    FTR, I won’t lament Trump’s death but, speaking as a real American, assassination is never acceptable.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  156. What is Conservative Treehouse? Is that something that comes through on your Trump feeds?

    BuDuh (8710bf)

  157. Later gang! I’m glad Open Border Sam has returned to the fold. He is a keeper.

    BuDuh (8710bf)

  158. Letting Russian’s fly missiles and armed drones across NATO airspace should be something that concerns us. And, no, we aren’t “pressuring” Romania to shoot them down. Mircea Geoana, the Foreign Minister of Romania, said it is unacceptable.

    As did the Latvian’s who it also happened to this weekend. As have the Poles, Moldovans’, basically all countries bordering Russia, Ukraine, or Belarus. Both the drones launched this weekend came from Belarus, so it’s not as simple as 1+1=2.

    Romania has had much more back splash from Russia targeting Danube ports along the river border with Ukraine, “mis-aimed” missiles have strayed across the border to impact Romanian ground more than any other country, besides Ukraine of course.

    Moldova and Poland have had quite a bit as well, there’s a reason that NATO troops and supplies are being repositioned further east and into the Baltics and Scandinavian countries.

    The Baltics are especially at risk as they share multiple borders with Russia and have their backs to the sea.

    We should take any restrictions off of Ukraine at this point, but I’m sure Zelensky knows that the PR of targeting a hospital in Moscow, even inadvertently, would do to their cause. He’s gotten good PR for the limited incursion and they are doing there best to be seen as benign interlopers, at least until after November.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  159. What is Conservative Treehouse?

    You would know, you linked to ’em.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  160. Later gang! I’m glad Open Border Sam has returned to the fold. He is a keeper.

    You keep promising that you’re quitting us, but you keep coming back. It’s like a job or something.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  161. I promised to go into observation mode, dummy.

    I keep waiting for someone to out stupid you. Don’t worry, Your slack-jaw lies about GM big blocks has been too tough to outdo. You are still number one, Klunk. Your bleach holds the number two slot, so you are practically unbeatable.

    BuDuh (8710bf)

  162. Thanks for the reply Col.

    steveg (63a4a5)

  163. The most true thing ever to come from Harris is going to be her sincere appeal to people to stop shooting at or around Trump

    steveg (63a4a5)

  164. Oh no, socky is complaining.

    You keep thinking that Trump never said “injecting disinfectant”. Hmm, also, you still know nothing about GM…doesn’t matter. Either you are as dumb as you seem, or you’re playing socky.

    Go out and find some Haitians from Venezuela eating cats…or dogs…or geese…or people.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  165. I got thrown in moderation.

    🙂

    BuDuh (8710bf)

  166. My question is why Trump’s golf club wasn’t closed to the public when he was on the course.

    Rip Murdock (9f7eec)

  167. Yes, you linked to ConservativeTreehouse, BuDuh.
    No less than Right Wing Rob chided you for it.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  168. Is that the guy I called a “sketchy lunatic?”

    Great evidence! I guess I forgot the source. My apologies. I am glad you are always thinking about that site. I would have never figured it out.

    Are your source hands squeaky clean, Paul? Be honest.

    BuDuh (8710bf)

  169. Did anyone else notice that Vance straight up admitted to making up the “memes” about people eating pets?

    Because, apparently, his and Trump’s boogie man wasn’t scary enough and wasn’t impacting the free fall, so that justifies the lies.

    Trump isn’t even that clever, he seems to actually think it is happening. Now, he’s Vance and Loomer’s sock puppet it seems.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  170. Here’s a good summary.

    Per press conference from Palm Beach County Sheriff, FBI, & Secret Service.

    At 1:30 PM Trump was golfing at hole 1 or 2. The Secret Service moves one or two holes ahead of Trump. An SS agent noticed a barrel sticking out of a the bushes right outside the property into the golf course. An SS agent shot at the gunman, firing 4-6 times, and missed.

    The gunman fled the scene. A witness saw him get into a Black Nissan and took a picture of the car, with the license plate. An alert went out for the license plate. The Nissan was stopped on I-95N in Martin County, and the gunman was arrested.

    The gunman left behind an AK-47 with a scope, two backpacks with ceramic tiles and a GoPro in the bushes. The bushes had a view onto holes 3 and 5.

    The FBI is now investigating this as an assassination attempt.

    The Secret Service did their job, there was no security outside the golf course fence. Not acceptable.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  171. BuDuh, you also said “just posting interesting stuff”, and then you trolled me, so maybe you should be honest about why you posted that.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  172. From Paul’s link:

    I do know that Ben Sasse was the nevertrumpers’ darling. I assume Paul can inform everyone as to whether or not Sasse ever told a lie.

    Also from Paul’s link:

    One thing CTH got right, dead on, smack on target, no question about it.

    It’s the way DeSantis operates. That is what he is good at. Insider wheeling and dealing, bribery, and extortion. That’s how he got to where he is.

    He is a thug and a gangster who not only knows how to kiss the hand that he cannot cut off but also how to grease the palm that slips money into his pocket.

    I’ll just leave it at that.

    nk (dfd954) — 8/18/2024 @ 10:09 am

    BuDuh (8710bf)

  173. Not this Conservative Treewhatever:

    A new report says former University of Florida president Ben Sasse spent over $1.3 million on private catering for lavish dinners, football tailgates and extravagant social functions

    https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/report-former-university-florida-president-ben-sasse-spent-113670294

    September 13, 2024, 2:19 PM

    ABC is definitely not a go to source, right Paul?

    BuDuh (8710bf)

  174. The USSS wanted to shut down Maralago after the first one, and the “Trump” people, who knows who that is, didn’t want to close the clubs.

    Maybe the USSS is doing a bad job, maybe the Trump businesses want their cash flow and don’t want to close up.

    Two things can be true.

    Also, all of these killer’s that want fame seem to cluster, like school shooters or the incels. “Dead kid in PA got famous, so I can too”. At least this bozo is alive to question.

    I don’t really care about why the USSS is not shutting down the golf course and surrounding property, or just flat out not letting Trump go golfing. It’s unacceptable. Sorry if you need more resources, but come out and just say it. If you need to call in the rest of DHS or Homeland, or the 1st SFOD-D or DevGru, do it.

    I do think that Trump has to have some personal responsibility to make it less difficult on his detail, but at the end of the day, they own the job.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  175. 140.

    Et tu, Sammy?

    nk (bb1548) — 9/15/2024 @ 8:16 am

    I don’t know what comment that refers to.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  176. ATM machine. DHS Homeland.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  177. The Secret Service did their job, there was no security outside the golf course fence. Not acceptable.

    Paul Montagu (062117) — 9/15/2024 @ 2:31 pm

    FWIW, at the presser it was explained that if Trump was the President, that level of protection would have been automatic. But why was the club open to the public anyway? After the Butler attempt, the SS should have insisted that the club be closed if Trump was there.

    Rip Murdock (2f0bf1)

  178. Ryan Wesley Routh.
    Voted for Trump in 2016 but later became disillusioned with him.
    Ukraine supporter.
    Supported Vivek and Nikki.
    Anti-Israel.
    Also a Tulsi Gabbard fan.
    Pro-BLM.
    Supported Joe over Donald.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  179. I’m glad Trump is OK. As much as I think he’s unsuited for the presidency I don’t want to see him murdered.

    Time123 (e39d92)

  180. I’m glad Trump is OK. As much as I think he’s unsuited for the presidency I don’t want to see him murdered.

    There is a limit to how often one can call Trump a threat to Democracy, the World and people in general before someone decides it is their moral duty to stop him. It’s like shooting Hitler in 1928.

    Kevin M (a77636)

  181. Supported Vivek and Nikki.

    That is literally unpossible.

    Kevin M (a77636)

  182. I’ll say that Trump is a threat to our democracy as much as I please.
    It don’t mean I’m going to go all Dead Zone on the guy.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  183. He’s a threat to our democracy, and this is a democracy. Just don’t vote for him.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  184. And no, today doesn’t somehow negate that he’s a terrible human man.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  185. Dribs and drabs. Routh has a criminal record and has been arrested 8 times.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  186. Golf courses, and in particular Donald Trump’s own properties, have long been a source of concern among Secret Service officials tasked with securing the grounds while the commander in chief plays, according to people familiar with the matter.

    A golf course is often the largest outdoor area a president can visit, and their design — often abutting public roads and containing elements like trees and hills that can conceal would-be assassins — make them particularly difficult for the agency to secure.

    Like other presidents before him, Trump’s presence at a golf course does not prompt the club to shut down to the general public, nor for the roads to be closed nearby.

    Instead, groups of agents in golf clothes typically ride in golf carts ahead and behind the president as he plays and secure the areas in the several minutes before he arrives.

    Trump International Golf Club in West Palm Beach abuts three heavily trafficked roads: Kirk Road, Summit Boulevard and Congress Avenue. The Palm Beach International Airport is also nearby.

    As president, Trump could often be spotted from across from Kirk Road when he was playing golf. But members of the media were not permitted to stand on the sidewalks near the golf course when Trump was playing.

    After he left office, some of those restrictions were lifted. Members of the public were able to have a clear view of Trump from the sidewalks on Summit Boulevard and Congress Avenue.

    In a briefing Sunday, the Palm Beach County sheriff acknowledged that with Trump now not a sitting president, the Secret Service was “limited” in its ability to fully surround the golf course.

    When he was president, Barack Obama’s most frequent golf outing was to the links at Joint Base Andrews, which, by its nature on a military installation, had restricted access — both to the course itself but also its surroundings.

    President Joe Biden rarely golfs.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  187. Supporting Vivek and Nikki on the same ticket suggests mental illness.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  188. Floridaman, living in NC from HI.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  189. BIDEN: …Look, I’d be happy to have a driving contest with him. I got my handicap, which, when I was vice president, down to a 6.

    And by the way, I told you before I’m happy to play golf if you carry your own bag. Think you can do it?

    TRUMP: That’s the biggest lie that he’s a 6 handicap, of all.

    BIDEN: I was 8 handicap.

    TRUMP: Yeah.

    BIDEN: Eight, but I have – you know how many…

    TRUMP: I’ve seen your swing, I know your swing.

    (CROSSTALK)

    BASH: President Trump, we’re going to…

    (CROSSTALK)

    TRUMP: Let’s not act like children.

    BIDEN: You are a child

    BuDuh (4214e4)

  190. They talked about golf…sooo????

    Let me guess, you think that was some sort of order from Biden?

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  191. “Fascist.” “Threat to Democracy.” “End of the Republic.” “Putin stooge.” “Racist.”

    I dunno what could’ve motivated the latest shooter. Who can possibly know?

    lloyd (95ddd8)

  192. Salieri jumping on the “hate” bandwagon.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  193. Remember, according to the rules of the popular game “Predict the Take”:

    If a Trumper does something bad, it’s because of right wing rhetoric.

    If a NeverTrumper does something bad, it’s because he’s a nut job.

    lloyd (376756)

  194. Biden: “time to put Trump in a bullseye”

    lloyd (95ddd8)

  195. Hm, appears the three horsemen of the apocalypse have returned. Hi BuDuh. Say hi to Lloyd and NJRob for me.

    Appalled (02bfe1)

  196. Whaaa? Socky’s all come home the same day. Maybe it’s just true love.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  197. Appalled looks to be sharp and up to speed as usual.

    lloyd (95ddd8)

  198. I’ll go out on a limb and say that a Harris Presidency has a better than 50% chance in seeing the use of a Russian tactical nukes on Ukraine

    Putin threatened this in 2022 and the US responded with some clear and convincing warnings (it would result in war with NATO and the United States, hopefully conventional). Maybe Harris has less backbone.

    Kevin M (a77636)

  199. Oh no, socky is complaining.

    Really, Klink, calling people names is actually against the rules here.

    Kevin M (a77636)

  200. Lookee — AJ_Klink stepped away from the crayons.

    lloyd (95ddd8)

  201. President Joe Biden rarely golfs.

    Or walks.

    Kevin M (a77636)

  202. I’ll say that Trump is a threat to our democracy as much as I please.

    But don’t hold you responsible if someone less hinged believes you?

    Kevin M (a77636)

  203. If a Trumper does something bad, it’s because of right wing rhetoric.

    Like storming the capital? Like shooting up Buffalo?

    Two things can be true at once. In almost every case it’s a disaffected white male.

    Trump is again lucky that the shooter wasn’t better. USSS actually successfully ran the dude off by opening fire on him from a distance. Looking at the perimeter of that golf course, it would require a huge force to defend the perimeter. There have to be better, more secure facilities, even if they’re not owned by him, if you could convince someone to let him play their club. Lost Tree looks like better course, and way more easily secured.

    BTW, that course is kind of a dump. It’s surrounded by trailer parks, the jail, and the airport, bordering the busiest roads in the county.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  204. Lookee — AJ_Klink stepped away from the crayons.

    You used the wrong handle BuDuh.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  205. Frankly, I think that Klink and nk are the same person. Prove me wrong.

    Kevin M (b98a5a)

  206. “The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat” did not work for Adam and it does not work for Thomas Matthew Crooks and Ryan Wesley Routh. They are responsible for their own sins.

    I am not going to accept a would-be assassin’s veto and stop expressing my opinion of Trump, Vance, and the rest of the MAGA Sycophancy.

    nk (bb1548)

  207. PS And neither should anybody else.

    nk (bb1548)

  208. Me and nk🤞, that’s me on top.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  209. Although I’m open to power bottom too.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  210. I’ll say that Trump is a threat to our democracy as much as I please.

    But don’t hold you responsible if someone less hinged believes you?

    Kevin M (a77636) — 9/15/2024 @ 5:06 pm

    You overestimate the influence of this forum.

    Rip Murdock (fc3b85)

  211. Me and nk🤞, that’s me on top.

    Hey, this is a family friendly website.

    🤮

    BuDuh (8710bf)

  212. Supported Vivek and Nikki.

    That is literally unpossible.

    Kevin M (a77636) — 9/15/2024 @ 3:49 pm

    Sort of like supporting Nikki and Trump.

    Rip Murdock (fc3b85)

  213. @208. No, the short bus persona is too strong. I think nk is too smart to pull that off.

    lloyd (95ddd8)

  214. Restricting speech will not prevent assassination attempts.

    Rip Murdock (fc3b85)

  215. But don’t hold you responsible if someone less hinged believes you?

    Since I’m not advocating violence and never have regarding Trump, the answer’s no, the person responsible for the violence is the violent person.

    Paul Montagu (58c6b8)

  216. lloyd, the Proud Boys, the KKK flyers, the bomb threats, the throwing acid on cars and so forth never would’ve happened had Trump not been that racist and lied in the first place, and you’re excusing this bullying and bigoted intimidation.

    Paul Montagu (062117) — 9/14/2024 @ 4:06 pm

    Oh

    BuDuh (8710bf)

  217. @218 Paul, you were singing a different tune after the Buffalo shooting:

    Was the Tops shooter radicalized by internet sewage like 4chan and such? Yes.
    Was he influenced by “replacement theory” protagonists like Tucker? Who can say, but it couldn’t have helped.
    Paul Montagu (5de684) — 5/17/2022 @ 8:38 am

    Tucker didn’t advocate violence, yet you left the question of responsibility open. I guess you’re just following the “Predict the Take” game rules.

    lloyd (95ddd8)

  218. Where did Paul advocate violence?

    So, since he pointed at people doing violence, egged on by people promoting racist conspiracies; by the transitive properties of socky, Paul was saying that Haitians are eating cats and Nazis should march on Springfield and a different guy should gun up and crawl through the bushes at Trump’s golf club with his body armor and all.

    All magically by specifically not saying any of that.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  219. To say Donnie do bad is to say do bad to Donnie.

    SO UNFAIRR!

    nk (bb1548)

  220. lloyd, I said “who can say” for a reason. The great replacement theory is racist dogma, and Tucker is a racist for pushing that.

    BuDuh, there would’ve been bomb threats and a Proud Boy march in Springfield OH had Trump shut his piehole and not spewed lies about black immigrants being illegals and pet-eaters.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  221. …would’ve been no bomb threats…

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  222. the person responsible for the violence is the violent person.

    BuDuh (8710bf)

  223. @182. I think you’re wrong. But if the latest shooter (unlike the last one) is motivated by leftwing political rhetoric I’m open to discussing with it.

    Time123 (59f129)

  224. Buduh’s trolling must be slipping. He actually said something a accurate and worth discussing

    Time123 (59f129)

  225. @223 Ok Paul, fair enough. So you’ll co-sign this:

    “Was the shooter influenced by Nevertrump screed rhetoric from Paul and likeminded? Who can say, but it couldn’t have helped.”

    lloyd (82cfdb)

  226. Time123 (59f129) — 9/15/2024 @ 6:24 pm

    Just quoting something Paul wishes he didn’t put in print.

    BuDuh (8710bf)

  227. And then there’s Lloyd to pick up the slack.

    Time123 (59f129)

  228. Oh, it /was/ trolling. My bad for missing it. Carry on trying to waste Paul’s time.

    Time123 (59f129)

  229. Unless you are talking about Harris’s call for violence.

    If so, I am glad you and I are on the same page, Time. 👍

    BuDuh (8710bf)

  230. More MAGA bogus equivalency.
    Unlike Trump, I’m not the leader of a cult and I don’t have cult following in the numbers in the millions. Trump does. There is a well-established record of threats and violence from Cult Orange Jesus.

    There’s a reason why jurors stay anonymous, there’s a reason why Trump had a gag order put on him, there’s a reason why the Arlington Cemetery official didn’t press charges after getting assaulted by MAGA minions, there’s a reason why schools and hospitals were under alert or closed after Trump lied about brown-skinned immigrants, there’s a reason why the J6 riot happened, there’s a reason why so many election supervisors have been threatened, there’s a reason why a Michigan governor was the target of a kidnapping.

    But sure, play the silly game that a commenter on a small blog is the problem. F-ck that, too.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  231. LOL!

    ………..
    Republicans hoping for the Trump campaign to sharpen its policy attacks on Democratic presidential nominee Vice President Kamala Harris over the weekend found their message veering off course.
    ………….
    …………. Trump on Sunday declared his enmity for Taylor Swift days after the global pop star endorsed Harris. “I HATE TAYLOR SWIFT!,” the former president posted on his Truth Social website.

    Trump said in a television appearance last week that the pop superstar would probably pay a price in the marketplace for her endorsement.
    …………..
    On Sunday, Vance defended his circulation of the pet-eating claims, saying that he was merely echoing reports he had heard from Ohio constituents, whom he didn’t identify.
    ………….
    “The American media totally ignored this stuff (until Donald Trump and I started talking about cat meat,” Vance said. “If I have to create stories so that the American media actually pays attention to the suffering of the American people, then that’s what I’m going to do because you guys are completely letting Kamala Harris coast.”

    Vance later clarified that he didn’t mean that he had concocted the story but had shared what he described as “verifiable and confirmable” allegations made by residents concerned about an influx of migrants into the city.
    …………..

    Rip Murdock (fc3b85)

  232. the person responsible for the violence is the violent person.

    BuDuh (8710bf)

  233. The authorities are saying they spotted a rifle barrel and engaged. Fair enough, and it was the right thing to do, but they only saw the rifle barrel because the genius hung two backpacks on the fence that drew attention. If he sits quiet in the trees with no packs hung on the fence that say “hey, look over here” and waits patiently we’d be having a different conversation. This was not so much of a Secret Service win as a dumb shooter. I mean really- 90% of us here would notice the anomaly on the fence. The other 10% would be too busy typing, but still capable of noticing.
    I saw some news people wondering why the Secret Service didn’t hit Roush, they probably had handguns and/or were trying to preemptively suppress.

    Last, I say we blame Lyndon LaRouche. Why? Because he’s dead and can’t defend what is left of his good name

    steveg (63a4a5)

  234. This guy was definitely bad at this. Wrong weapon, wrong tactics, sometimes there’s a comma between dumb and luck.

    Crooks got lucky but also planned decently, that he missed was pure luck. 8 of 10 at that range hits with first shot. He’d been to the range with that rifle 40+ times in the preceding year. 130 yds is point blank, if he’d had a magnified optic he would have been slightly slower, but 95/100 on that shot.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  235. Routh wrote a number of nutty Ukraine posts.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  236. Ah. His last name is Routh. That is disappointing

    steveg (63a4a5)

  237. Paul and Buduh are discussing:

    the person responsible for the violence is the violent person.

    I largely agree, but blame can go to more than one person.

    Some examples and where I fall on it:

    Someone hires a hitman: the person responsible for the violence is the violent person. Sure. But also the person who hired the hitman goes to jail. Maybe equal blame?

    If someone says to a stranger, “There’s a man in the liquor store wearing a pink shirt who just shot 3 people!” The man in the liquor store with a pink shirt comes out, and the person shouts “That’s him!” and the stranger (who is freaking out) shoots the man, sure, the person responsible for the violence is the violent person.; maybe they should have been more careful about who they believed, but the person who misdirected and lied to them is more to blame.

    A tells a friend that her husband brutally abuses and rapes her, the friend kills her husband, the person responsible for the violence is the violent person., and if she was telling the truth about what happened, she’s not at all to blame. If she’s lying, she also shares some blame.

    Just some thoughts. Whether the negative thing that sets someone off is true or not is pretty important for blame.

    Nate (cfb326)

  238. 1. I do not support a violent response to political rhetoric.

    2. Trump took a number of actions after he lost the last election that did have the potential to endanger our democracy and has continued to support those actions throughout the last few years, up to and including today. To say that is a discussion of actual events.

    3. No Haitians are stealing and eating other people’s pets in Ohio. However, Trump and Vance have continued to put forth this story.

    4. There is a qualitative difference between talking about an event that happened and perpetuating a lie. If people are angry about an event that happened, they are angry about a real thing, a thing that is legitimate to discuss and the causation of violence is the event that occurred. If people are angry because they believe a lie someone told, that is fomenting anger using an untruth and the causation of violence is the person who told and perpetuates the lie. Now, rhetoric can reduce or inflame emotionality in either case, but the root causes of the anger are different and it makes a difference.

    Nic (120c94)

  239. When Donnie calls the neighbor bad names and throws a rock through his window, it is not the neighbor saying “You’re a bad boy, Donnie!” which makes Donnie’s mommy spank him.

    You may wish to consider that it is what Trump says and does which makes some people want to do more to him than merely criticize him, and not the criticism otherwise directed at him.

    nk (bb1548)

  240. More from Visegrad24…

    CNN falsely claims that the Trump shooter had been “fighting in Ukraine.”
    […]
    The Trump shooter Ryan Wesley Routh confirms that he has no military training and was rejected by the Ukrainian Army from fighting in Ukraine for that very reason.

    He was interviewed in Kyiv by Newsweek Romania in 2022.

    Ukrainians referred to him as the “American flag bandana guy”. And this

    Members of the International Legion had been warning for a long time that Ryan Routh was lying about being part of the International Legion.

    Ukrainian stolen valor?

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  241. @241 Nate, that’s true as far as it goes, and I don’t think it goes very far in the political realm. What Sarah Palin put on her website and what Biden said about putting Trump “in a bullseye” are not matters of truth or falsehood. The disparate reactions from the partisans on the left (for simplicity, we’ll call them “the media”) to each case had little to do with concern for attaching appropriate blame.

    Likewise, saying routinely that Trump is a “fascist” or his election would be the “end of the Republic” is opinion, not a statement of fact or truth. Just as saying Democrats seek to replace Republican leaning voters with “newcomers” is opinion, not fact or truth. And just as what might’ve motivated James Hodgkinson or the Dallas BLM cop shooter is a matter of opinion, not fact or truth. If blame is to be attached in these cases, one should at least be consistent. (If the verdict from the softball shooting is to be our guide, they were all motivated by “suicide by cop.”)

    Maybe you have a real life example in the political realm where truth is an appropriate shield from blame, rather than just hypotheticals. I can’t think of one off hand.

    lloyd (82cfdb)

  242. I don’t know why my comment went into moderation.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  243. Anybody got something? I don’t. Whats next?

    asset (06be52)

  244. Lloyd, I think you make some good points there.

    I think it’s also worth noting that we live in a time where we have a hard time agreeing on the truth of facts.

    It’s also hard to give a real example unless you had a shooter who clearly identified their motivation, because you need to be able to say “that thing that motivated them was a fact.”

    I guess if it turns out that this shooter was really into Ukraine as a righteous cause, and he heard the media report that Trump was critical of continuing to support Ukraine at current levels, I would hold that factual reporting as blameless in motivating him. OTOH if in the same scenario it turns out that he read a left-wing blog that continually proclaimed that Donald Trump secretly started the war in Ukraine to get elected, and he believed that to be the case, I would blame the left-wing blog for winding someone up about things that weren’t true (or at the very least were baseless accusations).

    Nate (cfb326)

  245. Sort of like supporting Nikki and Trump.

    I don’t support Trump. I may eventually support the alternative to Harris, but that’s not the same thing.

    Kevin M (f0f0fa)

  246. Crooks got lucky but also planned decently, that he missed was pure luck. 8 of 10 at that range hits with first shot. He’d been to the range with that rifle 40+ times in the preceding year. 130 yds is point blank, if he’d had a magnified optic he would have been slightly slower, but 95/100 on that shot.

    There was a crosswind, which moved the trajectory, and he didn’t account for it. A center-of-mass shot and it wouldn’t have mattered much. But a couple of inches matters with a head shot. It wasn’t luck, it was ego.

    Kevin M (f0f0fa)

  247. BTW, my comment on the rhetoric also applies to MAGA’s characterization of Harris as a Communist. I bet you that her SS protection went into overtime today as some deranged MAGA fool (birm) might try to get even with the Commie.

    Kevin M (f0f0fa)

  248. But sure, play the silly game that a commenter on a small blog is the problem. F-ck that, too.

    Paul, way to distort the comments. It’s not your puny comments here that threaten Trump, it’s people who actually have a national megaphone who are saying the same things.

    Kevin M (f0f0fa)

  249. BuDuh (8710bf) — 9/15/2024 @ 6:20 pm

    It figures that a troll didn’t cut-and-paste the whole sentence. Bad faith.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  250. Paul, way to distort the comments. It’s not your puny comments here that threaten Trump, it’s people who actually have a national megaphone who are saying the same things.

    Actually, you’re distorting, Kevin, because the MAGA attacks were levied at me, not this “people who actually have a national megaphone”.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  251. @248 Nate, yes that’s a good example and I agree with you on that.

    lloyd (82cfdb)

  252. @254 No Paul, you’re distorting. I specifically wrote “Paul and likeminded” for a reason.

    lloyd (82cfdb)

  253. They were levied at you as a symbol or spear carrier. Perhaps they should have said “your ilk” but that wouldn’t have been very nice.

    And why does objection to heated rhetoric have to be MAGA? Are there no people who just favor civility?

    Kevin M (a1a418)

  254. That’s still an attack on me, bub.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  255. So here’s a straightforward question for the MAGA Three here, and please answer without whatabouting…

    Do you condemn Trump for lying that the Springfield Haitian immigrants were illegals?

    Do you condemn Trump for lying about them eating the dogs and the cats?

    Does Trump bear any responsibility for the ensuing bomb threats and such on Springfield hospitals and schools?

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  256. In response to Elon’s “And no one is even trying to assassinate Biden/Kamala 🤔”, Tom Nichols

    I had a security clearance for most of my adult life. If I had said something like this, I would’ve lost it instantly. And yet this guy is still a major government contractor.

    This reminds me of the line, “If you owe the bank a hundred dollars, that’s your problem. If you owe the bank a hundred million dollars, that’s the bank’s problem.” Because Elon has huge contracts with the federal government. SpaceX and Starlink are important American interests, so the increasingly nutty owner of those ventures gets a lot of slack.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  257. Re :Paul Montagu (062117) — 9/15/2024 @ 9:54 pm
    No
    No
    No

    Joe (a71fc6)

  258. Here’s what I think:

    The connection between GOP rhetoric and what happened in Springfield is clear and obvious. No serious person can deny it.

    The connection between rhetoric and this clown’s actions today is so tenuous I can’t imagine a serious person making the case.

    If another leftist moby happens to have expressed the exact same opinion in the exact same words (at least I hope they’re the same words, as I did my best to copy them), does that mean I’m his leftist moby sock puppet?

    (Whembly, this is your cue to click the link before commenting.)

    lurker (c23034)

  259. Even assuming their rhetoric was equally inflammatory, which it isn’t by a long shot, who do you suppose would be likelier to incite political violence, this Trump supporter with a couple of hundred million followers, or Paul Montagu?

    lurker (c23034)

  260. And just when you think Elon has shown you the vile anti-anti rhetoric bottom, you’re reminded that there is no bottom.

    lurker (c23034)

  261. Those last two links are things I also saw because Pay retweeted them. Which is to say, if you’re not following his Twitter account, why not?

    lurker (c23034)

  262. Nate, I think the proximity of the alleged problem is also part of it.

    -The guy with the pink shirt is going to kill someone RIGHT NOW!

    Is more of an incitement then “the guy in the pink shirt is trying going to eventually kill you if conditions don’t change.”

    Time123 (c06227)

  263. @Joe, do you feel Harris shares responsibility for the assassination attempt on Trump because of
    The things she said to him?

    Time123 (c06227)

  264. Kevin. Lloyd seemed to be blaming Paul personally. If he wasn’t he’s had several opportunities to make that clear and chosen not to. I understand the point you’re making but that doesn’t seem to be Lloyd’s point.

    Will be interested to learn more about this person. Based on all available information cook wasn’t very motivated by LE political rhetoric and fit into the “crazy assassin seeking glory” mold. Evidence to the contrary welcome if I’ve missed developments on that.

    Time123 (ca03f3)

  265. Do you condemn Trump for lying that the Springfield Haitian immigrants were illegals?

    the person responsible for the violence is the violent person.

    Do you condemn Trump for lying about them eating the dogs and the cats?

    the person responsible for the violence is the violent person.

    Does Trump bear any responsibility for the ensuing bomb threats and such on Springfield hospitals and schools?

    the person responsible for the violence is the violent person.

    do you feel Harris shares responsibility for the assassination attempt on Trump because of
    The things she said to him?

    the person responsible for the violence is the violent person.

    BuDuh (8710bf)

  266. BuDuh is purely a troll, here only to heckle and derail discussions. Ignore him or not as you wish, but in no case engage him seriously.

    nk (bb1548)

  267. https://althouse.blogspot.com/2024/09/the-man-arrested-for-attempting-to.html

    Mr. Routh, who had no military experience, said he had traveled to the country after Russia’s invasion and wanted to recruit Afghan soldiers to fight there. In a telephone interview with The New York Times in 2023, when Mr. Routh was in Washington, he spoke with the self-assuredness of a seasoned diplomat who thought his plans to support Ukraine’s war effort were sure to succeed. But he appeared to have little patience for anyone who got in his way. When an American foreign fighter seemed to talk down to him in a Facebook message he shared with The New York Times, Mr. Routh said, “he needs to be shot.”

    In the interview, Mr. Routh said he was in Washington to meet with the U.S. Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe, known as the Helsinki Commission “for two hours” to help push for more support for Ukraine. The commission is led by members of Congress and staffed by congressional aides. It is influential on matters of democracy and security and has been vocal in supporting Ukraine.

    The man was spoken highly of by the NY Times.

    The worm continues to turn.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  268. BuDuh is honest. The trolls are the mobys that are clearly leftists, but as long as they toe the NeverTrump line, they get to roleplay as Republicans.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  269. If a rapist gets shot by his victim or by a Good Samaritan coming to the victim’s aid, the rapist is the one who is responsible.

    Donald “Donnie Two Inch” Trump and J. the D is for Dino Nugget Vance incited a pogrom (that’s a mass lynching) for disgustingly plain political manipulation against the Springfield Haitians whose only crime is that they exist. They are responsible for the anger and disgust expressed by decent people and for the violent reactions of mentally unstable people.

    nk (bb1548)

  270. BuDuh (8710bf) — 9/16/2024 @ 5:11 am

    As expected, troll responses. Bad faith.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  271. No
    No
    No

    Why no?

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  272. @Paul Montagu (062117) — 9/16/2024 @ 6:22 am

    Do you condemn Trump for lying that the Springfield Haitian immigrants were illegals?

    The issue is how much immigration we are having to deal with. Taxpayer money should not be spent on them until every ill and homeless American is taken care of. Neither Biden-Kamala are telling us the truth either. Politicians lie to us all the time.

    Do you condemn Trump for lying about them eating the dogs and the cats?
    The issue here is cultural assimilation with the US and following are written and unwritten rules. We are doing a horrible job getting immigrants (legal and illegal) to assimilate into our culture. Politicians are doing a horrible job here as well.

    Does Trump bear any responsibility for the ensuing bomb threats and such on Springfield hospitals and schools?
    No. Does the rape victim deserve it for wearing a short skirt? Why would you ask this question?

    Joe (a71fc6)

  273. @224

    the person responsible for the violence is the violent person.

    BuDuh (8710bf) — 9/15/2024 @ 6:20 pm

    Funny how that only goes one way.

    Trump is blamed for the bomb hoax in Springfield…
    Trump is blamed for J6…
    Trump is blamed for nk’s indigestion…

    But when anti-Trump rhetoric gets pointed out in some fashion, they’re all of the sudden defensive.

    whembly (477db6)

  274. The issue, Joe, is that Trump threw up a litany of sh-t after Kamala pierced his tender ego about his rallies. This was his full answer in the debate…

    First let me respond as to the rallies. She said people start leaving. People don’t go to her rallies. There’s no reason to go. And the people that do go, she’s busing them in and paying them to be there. And then showing them in a different light. So, she can’t talk about that. People don’t leave my rallies. We have the biggest rallies, the most incredible rallies in the history of politics. That’s because people want to take their country back. Our country is being lost. We’re a failing nation. And it happened three and a half years ago. And what, what’s going on here, you’re going to end up in World War 3, just to go into another subject. What they have done to our country by allowing these millions and millions of people to come into our country. And look at what’s happening to the towns all over the United States. And a lot of towns don’t want to talk — not going to be Aurora or Springfield. A lot of towns don’t want to talk about it because they’re so embarrassed by it. In Springfield, they’re eating the dogs. The people that came in. They’re eating the cats. They’re eating — they’re eating the pets of the people that live there. And this is what’s happening in our country. And it’s a shame. As far as rallies are concerned, as far — the reason they go is they like what I say. They want to bring our country back. They want to make America great again. It’s a very simple phrase. Make America great again. She’s destroying this country. And if she becomes president, this country doesn’t have a chance of success. Not only success. We’ll end up being Venezuela on steroids.

    Why is it okay to lie like that? He’s painted a false and dishonest picture of Springfield as part of his spiel that we’re a “failing nation”. Is there any statement or deed by Trump that’s worthy of your condemnation?

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  275. @258 So here’s a straightforward question for the MAGA Three here, and please answer without whatabouting…

    No MAGA but I’ll jump in…

    Do you condemn Trump for lying that the Springfield Haitian immigrants were illegals?

    Nope.

    Do you condemn Trump for lying about them eating the dogs and the cats?

    Nope.

    Does Trump bear any responsibility for the ensuing bomb threats and such on Springfield hospitals and schools?

    Paul Montagu (062117) — 9/15/2024 @ 9:54 pm

    Nope.

    @266 @Joe, do you feel Harris shares responsibility for the assassination attempt on Trump because of
    The things she said to him?

    Time123 (c06227) — 9/16/2024 @ 3:46 am

    Nope.

    Just as I don’t hold Trump responsible for the J6 riot. His slow response, as potus, was problematic, but that’s a separate issue than the riot itself.

    So.. Time… care to answer this question?

    If you don’t think Democrats shouldn’t be held account to their rhetoric that in a span of 2 months we’ve seen 2 assassination attempts… then why do you insist on blaming Trump for J6?

    For me… one assassination attempt can be dismissed as an extremist one-off.

    Two within two months and something’s wrong.

    What gives?

    whembly (477db6)

  276. Joe, I hope I did not misunderstand your comment.

    Trump is not a rape victim who wore a short skirt.

    He is a 77-year old drag queen yelling “Rape! when there was not even a catcall.

    nk (bb1548)

  277. But when anti-Trump rhetoric gets pointed out in some fashion, they’re all of the sudden defensive.

    That is when their brain stems take over and they collectively type T-R-O-L-L.

    It is the call of this particular tribe when they lose the argument.

    Back to observation for me. Mouse Utopia, please carry on.

    (Hopefully it gets spicier, like when Klink bolted Chevy parts on an Olds.)

    BuDuh (b6117a)

  278. nk (bb1548) — 9/16/2024 @ 6:57 am

    The person to blame is the one who is calling in the bomb threats, not Trump.

    Question:
    What are the odds that the bomb threats are a democratic operation to cast blame on Trump?
    Not Impossible?

    Would that be “beyond considerations” if that is what it took to defeat a person worse than Hitler?

    Joe (a71fc6)

  279. Yeah, he did say that tiki torch bearing Nazis were fine people.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  280. Trump is to blame for the false accusations; the caller is to blame for acting on them; and the false flag is to blame for trying to take advantage of them. All three, joint and several responsibility.

    nk (bb1548)

  281. Actually, this WaPo link.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  282. Snopes said he didn’t:
    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-very-fine-people/


    We looked into these claims, and found that while Trump did say there were “very fine people on both sides,” meaning both the protesters and the counterprotesters, he also condemned neo-Nazis and white nationalists outright and said he was specifically referring to those who were there only to participate in the statue protest.

    In sum, while Trump did say that there were “very fine people on both sides,” he also specifically noted that he was not talking about neo-Nazis and white supremacists and said they should be “condemned totally.” Therefore, we have rated this claim “False.”

    Snopes is not know for being fair and balanced.

    But WashPOST and Bulwark are invested in taking the most extreme anti-Trump interpretation possible.

    So, there is that.

    But, hey, confirmation-bias is one hell of a drug.

    whembly (477db6)

  283. Elon Musk, not keeping it classy:

    Elon Musk deleted a post Monday morning that questioned why former President Donald Trump has faced two apparent assassination attempts in recent months while President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris have not encountered any. Musk later claimed the post was a joke.

    “And no one is even trying to assassinate Biden/Kamala 🤔,” Musk wrote in the now-deleted X post.

    Musk initially resisted numerous calls throughout Sunday night to delete the post. In one post responding to a demand to take down his remarks, Musk doubled down: “No one has even tried to do so is the point I’m making and no one will.”

    But Musk was ultimately persuaded by an X post that said Musk’s “obvious intent” may be misinterpreted.

    “Fair enough. I don’t want to do what they have done, even in jest,” Musk responded. He later posted several times that the deleted post had been a joke.

    However, Musk subsequently responded to a similar post, replying with a thinking face emoji to a photo that noted the four presidents who preceded Trump faced no assassination attempts when Trump has apparently encountered two. X did not respond to a request for comment.
    …………..

    Rip Murdock (fc3b85)

  284. He said “and I looked the night before”, but the only coverage of the night before were Nazis. Anyone carrying a tiki torch and chanting “Jews will not replace us!” is the opposite of very fine.

    He also lied about seeing Muslims cheering from across the river when the towers fell, so there’s a pattern.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  285. The commentariat insists on owning zero consequences for their constant repetition that Trump is an existential threat whose election will bring bloody fascism, when it’s absolutely obvious it motivated this would-be assassin. https://t.co/vLVuVnBEgA

    — Ben Domenech (@bdomenech) September 16, 2024

    🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

    whembly (477db6)

  286. @271, Rob, have you been following what Buduhs saying? It’s unlike you to take a position that applies equally to both the right and the left.

    Time123 (ae7b06)

  287. I don’t support Trump. I may eventually support the alternative to Harris, but that’s not the same thing.

    Kevin M (f0f0fa) — 9/15/2024 @ 9:28 pm

    Pretzel logic. 🤣 🤣 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

    Rip Murdock (fc3b85)

  288. Kevin M (f0f0fa) — 9/15/2024 @ 9:28 pm

    Hair splitting distinctions without a difference. It’s the same explanation you gave for Haley’s support for Trump before her “full throated” convention endorsement.

    Rip Murdock (fc3b85)

  289. Nobody tried to assassinate Trump during his first run, his term as President, or his run for reelection in 2020, either.

    Hmm?

    How long has Musk been working on brain implant chips?

    What made Trump start pally-walling around with a guy who wants to replace every internal combustion engine vehicle with electric vehicles?

    What is Musk’s connection to Walter Reed hospital where Trump was held for three days ostensibly for Covid in October, 2020?

    🤔

    nk (bb1548)

  290. You guys all know that the Manchurian Candidate was not the guy running for President but his Vice Presidential running mate, right?

    nk (bb1548)

  291. Man, I watched this Routh guy’s interviews in Ukraine when he was claiming to be…CIA/DoD/Something, he’s not all there.

    I’d be surprised if he isn’t another fame wh0r3, he seemed to love getting press for “helping” Ukraine. He seems to have some beliefs that may align with the Neocon/Democrat viewpoint today, but he also has some wildly weird other beliefs.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  292. I will respect the person who complains about the media environment about Trump inspiring assassins, if they are equally active about JD and Trump’s statements about Springfield Ohio, and how that would s inspiring violence. Otherwise, I assume it’s mere partisan hackery. Frankly, I think it is Trump’s tendency to make himself the center that is drawing the murderous nutjobs. I am willing to listen to other arguments, but not if they think JD Vance’s comments did not have an either greater effect in drawing the bomb threats and Proud Boys to Springfield.

    Appalled (86ac28)

  293. I don’t support Trump. I may eventually support the alternative to Harris, but that’s not the same thing.

    Kevin M (f0f0fa) — 9/15/2024 @ 9:28 pm

    Pretzel logic. 🤣 🤣 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

    Why? Any number of folks, including our host are voting for Harris SOLELY because she’s the person opposing Trump.

    Kevin M (ba404b)

  294. You guys all know that the Manchurian Candidate was not the guy running for President but his Vice Presidential running mate, right?

    Kamala is a she.

    Kevin M (ba404b)

  295. It’s the same explanation you gave for Haley’s support for Trump before her “full throated” convention endorsement.

    Rip, why do you play a moron when you know better? Haley was surrendering at the last possible moment so she could help pick up the pieces after Trump lost again. It was no more an endorsement than Teddy’s handshake with Carter in 1980.

    Kevin M (ba404b)

  296. @270:

    Blogspot is still a thing?

    Kevin M (ba404b)

  297. As for the “do you denounce?” questions, Paul, what was the last policy or statement by Harris you denounced?

    Kevin M (ba404b)

  298. Ryan Wesley Routh, the man arrested on suspicion of possibly trying to assassinate former president Donald Trump, was charged Monday with two gun-related crimes during an appearance at a federal courthouse in West Palm Beach, Fla. Trump is expected to meet Monday with the acting director of the Secret Service. On Monday night, Trump is scheduled to unveil a new cryptocurrency business. Vice President Kamala Harris, meanwhile, is set to meet with the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, a union that has not yet endorsed a presidential candidate.

    https://wapo.st/4ddWXN7

    I guess those gun statutes are enforced sometimes.

    Kevin M (04a773)

  299. @302

    As for the “do you denounce?” questions, Paul, what was the last policy or statement by Harris you denounced?

    Kevin M (ba404b) — 9/16/2024 @ 8:34 am

    I suspect…

    *crickets*

    whembly (477db6)

  300. Thirteen minutes, whembly?
    Unserious.

    Kevin M (ba404b) — 9/16/2024 @ 8:34 am

    I discussed her “muddled comments on Hamas”, but this isn’t a policy election, IMO, it’s a character election and a referendum on which administration should continue, Trump or the Democrat version.

    If there’s one policy where I agree with Kamala, it’s about Ukraine, but even then, her boss is slow-walking deliveries and tying their hands on striking legitimate military targets in Russia.
    Beyond that, I doubt there’s another policy of hers that I support. But then, I’m not voting for her, and I’m spending most of the time on the bigger problem, IMO, which is the mentally ill malignant narcissist sexual-abusing coup-attempting lying convicted-felon con man fraud bully at the top of the GOP ticket.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  301. With regards to the discussions that political rhetoric should or should NOT be blamed for the 2 assassinations…

    It’s one thing to take a principled position that the rhetoric does not bear blame for the lunatics, but it’s something else entirely different to insist that the disfavored side owns every “result” of it’s own rhetoric while the favored side owns none of them.

    …if you’re wondering why so many are cranky now…

    whembly (477db6)

  302. Why? Any number of folks, including our host are voting for Harris SOLELY because she’s the person opposing Trump.

    Kevin M (ba404b) — 9/16/2024 @ 8:29 am

    At least they aren’t whinging back and forth about it. You’ve become the Hamlet on the Pecos.

    Haley was surrendering at the last possible moment so she could help pick up the pieces after Trump lost again. It was no more an endorsement than Teddy’s handshake with Carter in 1980.

    Kevin M (ba404b) — 9/16/2024 @ 8:32 am

    When Haley dropped out, saying that Trump had to “earn the votes of those in our party and beyond who did not support him” she was delusional that Trump would do so, and since then that’s proven to be correct. The Trump campaign has thumbed their noses at Haley and her supporters, most of which will end up supporting Trump anyway.

    Haley’s “strong endorsement” at the convention won’t allow her to pick up anything; she had to beg for a speaking slot at the convention, and was booed to boot. Even if Trump loses (unlikely), the new Republican party won’/t unify around her. She is everything MAGA hates. The Republican 2028 candidates will be some variety of MAGA: Vance (the logical next in line), Stefanik, one of the Trump siblings, etc.

    Haley’s previous brand of Republicanism is dead.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  303. As for the “do you denounce?” questions, Paul, what was the last policy or statement by Harris you denounced?

    Kevin M (ba404b) — 9/16/2024 @ 8:34 am

    How very Communist.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  304. The man was spoken highly of by the NY Times.

    The worm continues to turn.

    NJRob (eb56c3) — 9/16/2024 @ 5:56 am

    Should have the NYT known 18 months ago that Routh was going to attempt an assassination?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  305. Breaking news for some here: Anyone can call in a bomb threat, just like anyone can show up to a rally carrying tiki torches. There is as much proof that MAGA is behind the threats as there is that Haitians are eating cats.

    lloyd (a980e0)

  306. Trump claiming the Haitians are here illegally is incorrect. I’ll concede it’s wrong to leave that impression when folks concede it’s wrong for economic refugees to score asylum status and that it’s at odds with our immigration laws. The fact that they are 98% good people doing good work is irrelevant.

    lloyd (a980e0)

  307. lloyd (a980e0) — 9/16/2024 @ 9:23 am

    There is as much proof that MAGA is behind the threats as there is that Haitians are eating cats.

    If someone was sincere about the eating of cats, it makes no sense to phone in bomb threats. People can claim it makes sense – i> those MAGA people are crazy, n’est-ce pas? – but it is not so.

    But if someone was organizing phony claims about the killing or eating of cats then the same people might have been behind both.

    But if Vance used it – and he did – he must have support from MAGA for the claims.

    And that the cat eating claims came from MAGA and the bomb threats from anti-MAGA does not look to me too likely – it came too fast. And the complaints about both seem to be too similarly spread.

    My conclusion is: It is most likely that there is a anti-Trump operation that has ben penetrated and subverted by pro-Harris people,

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  308. Trailer trash who stir up hate by falsely accusing people of stealing and eating pets are far more likely to call in bomb threats than people who not stir up hate by falsely accusing people of stealing and eating pets.

    nk (bb1548)

  309. Is fundamental understanding of human nature, comrades.

    nk (bb1548)

  310. My conclusion is: It is most likely that there is a anti-Trump operation that has ben penetrated and subverted by pro-Harris people

    Or, and I’m serious here, it’s the obvious thing, not a giant conspiracy.

    MAGA has admitted they’re ginning this up to get immigration front page again. The proud boys are marching in town, and the American Nazi party is in town passing out flyers.

    When you hear hoofbeats…

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  311. I’m a fan of the razors, both Occam’s and Hanlon’s, which is why I don’t take factless false flag assertions seriously.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  312. Hopefully, this comment will take.
    Mr. Williamson went to Springfield…

    Most profess to be Christians, but many maintain superstitious folk magic traditions from their homeland, and many quietly hold to a belief in witchcraft. They blithely violate social taboos. Locals complain that they are stealing their jobs, driving up costs, and consuming too much in the way of social services. And then there are the dietary norms: Though the rumors no doubt exceed the reality, some of them eat animals not generally considered food by the good people of Ohio. Ask the locals, and many of them will quietly say that they wish they would all go back to where they came from.

    But that was a long time ago. And while J.D. Vance’s hillbilly ancestors may not have been the inbred, possum-eating, superstitious bushwhackers of legend and lore, as they descended on Ohio from the hills of Kentucky they had more than a little in common with the Haitian immigrants Sen. Vance now spends his days vilifying in terms that would have been familiar to Fritz Hippler, the filmmaker whose 1941 propaganda film Der ewige Jude comes to its climax with images of leering kosher butchers covered in the blood of animals slaughtered in the service of “the so-called Jewish religion.”

    Lord Acton would have us believe that it takes absolute power to corrupt absolutely. But even the dream of the vice presidency—that “bucket of warm piss” in the immortal words of Vice President John Nance Garner—will do the trick, if you are the right kind of person.

    By which, of course, I mean the wrong sort of person—the wrong sort to wield power. You can send little J.D. to Yale to make him polished, you can send him to Silicon Valley to make him rich, and you can send him to the Senate to make him powerful, but you cannot stop him from being what it is he apparently wants to be: Cleetus the Gap-Toothed Twitter Troll.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  313. Link: https://thedispatch.com/newsletter/wanderland/exotic-cat-eaters-springfield-ohio/

    The Atlantic’s loss is The Dispatch’s gain. A local minister told Williamson that what Haitians need most are driving lessons, as Ohio doesn’t require driving tests.

    Words are powerful. Words from powerful people are more powerful still. And the silence of the powerful is powerful, too.

    As of this writing, Springfield’s schools had been closed for two days in a row—bomb threats. City hall was evacuated—bomb threat. Other municipal buildings—bomb threats. An elementary school—bomb threat. Two medical centers—bomb threats. Meanwhile, Donald Trump is on Truth Social posting images of kittens holding a sign reading: “Don’t let them eat us, vote for Trump!”

    Do you know the most important word in that sentence? Them.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  314. How very Communist.

    I wasn’t they guy demanding denouncements. I was just returning fire.

    Kevin M (95e0ed)

  315. what Haitians need most are driving lessons

    People from 1st world countries have experience with cars nearly from birth. People from 3rd world countries do not and may not have any experience (other than occasional travel on a bus or train) with vehicle speeds. Their reaction times are suspect. Personally, I’d give them the same provisional licenses we give 16yos, and even that is missing the mark as they don’t have 16 years of observation.

    Kevin M (95e0ed)

  316. nk (bb1548) — 9/16/2024 @ 9:54 am

    Trailer trash who stir up hate by falsely accusing people of stealing and eating pets are far more likely to call in bomb threats than people who not stir up hate by falsely accusing people of stealing and eating pets.

    Yes, it is the same people, or same organization, but it doesn’t make sense for a pro-MAGA person to call in a bomb threat and say it is because of the pets or Haitians – all that the published reports say is something like:

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/09/16/ohio-colleges-haitian-threats-trump/75243429007

    University and college campuses in Springfield canceled activities and moved to remote instruction on Sunday after receiving threats of violence tied to false claims about the city’s Haitian immigrants.

    It makes no sense at all. These people making these threats are trying to help defeat Trump.

    And I’ll say the original cat killing and eating s meme is also something to defeat Trump. They got Vance and then Trump to say it. (Vance knows better but he feels bound to not criticize Trump)

    One idea, which is probably not exactly true:

    1) Putin starts up a disinformation campaign to help Trump because he thinks Trump will help him win the war in Ukraine.

    2) The person he puts in charge wants to do the opposite of Putin, because he thinks there will no end to the war, and somebody he knows might get killed, and besides he doesn’t want to get sanctioned by the USA. So if Putin wants Trump, he will want Trump to lose.

    3) Official contacts the U.S. government or is already in contact.

    4) U.S. government official contacts somebody associated with the Democratic Party (supposedly to warn them)

    5) Democrat contacts Russian person running the disinformation operation or somebody else involved..

    6) They decide to combat it with judo – use the opponents strength against himself.

    7) So arranges to make ridiculous charges that will boomerang.

    8. Republican campaign is already a little penetrated by Russian operatives – another reason Putin wants Trump – because Trump trusts the wrong people.

    9. After controversy, arranges for bomb threats to increase the political effect..

    10. Putin doesn’t mind because he has no understanding of way people think in the United States. Russian official who sabotaged Putin’s disinformation campaign is sitting pretty. Putin thinks he is doing good and it is working.

    This may not be right but it makes more sense than any other ideas to explain all of this.

    The people who said, not seriously, that Laura Looper may be a Democratic operative may be closer to the truth than they think. Somebody is. But may be a triple agent.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  317. And I’ll say the original cat killing and eating s meme is also something to defeat Trump. They got Vance and then Trump to say it. (Vance knows better but he feels bound to not criticize Trump)

    Who’s “they”, and how did they make Trump and Vance say it? Vance has admitted he was trying to make a point.

    On Sunday, Vance defended his circulation of the pet-eating claims, saying that he was merely echoing reports he had heard from Ohio constituents, whom he didn’t identify.
    ………….
    “The American media totally ignored this stuff (until Donald Trump and I started talking about cat meat,” Vance said. “If I have to create stories so that the American media actually pays attention to the suffering of the American people, then that’s what I’m going to do because you guys are completely letting Kamala Harris coast.”

    Rip Murdock (fc3b85)

  318. I listened to it five times over, and I heard Rich Lowry say “Haitian n—-rs”, at the 0:43 mark. Disappointing.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  319. Rip Murdock (2f0bf1) — 9/15/2024 @ 3:14 pm

    After the Butler attempt, the SS should have insisted that the club be closed if Trump was there.

    The sniper’s nest, why Routh stayed for almost 12 hours (1:59 am till he was spotted at 1:30 pm – as determined by his cell phone) was outside the boundaries of the club (The Secret Service has a thing only going so far as the perimeters go)

    The golf course at the 5th hole goes right up to the street. Outside is South Congress Street. When Trump was president, the street was closed to traffic whenever he played. (But if was there since 2 am he could have hidden himself before the street was closed off, so that still might not have been enough.)

    Golfing there was not on Trump’s public schedule but somebody wo researched things enough might know that h e frequently golfed there when he was in Florida – several times a week.

    Trump lamented to Sean Hannity that he was about to get a birdie when his game was interrupted – he was getting ready to putt, when a Secret Service agent, at the next hole, noticed a rifle sticking out of the bushes. They immediately fired, and the agents pushed Trump down, but they missed, but the would-be assassin (who so far has only been charged with being a felon with a gun and having a firearm with an eradicated serial number, but not with attempted murder) dropped everything – he left behind the rifle and 2 backpacks and his Go Pro camera – who did he think would want to post the shooting? – and fled to s car.

    But a passerby took a picture of the car along with its license number and turned it over to the police of Secret Service. So they knew his number. Maybe later a traffic camera traced it.

    They did not want to get into a high speed car chase, so they were careful how they followed the car and they eventually forced him off the road, and he surrendered

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  320. Rip Murdock (fc3b85) — 9/16/2024 @ 12:16 pm

    Who’s “they”,

    Whatever conspiracy of people invented the story. And it might have been backed up with material supplied to Vance and Trump in the form of fake 911 calls and fake or misidentified video.

    and how did they make Trump and Vance say it?

    They infiltrated the Trump campaign or connected with it. That has to be the truth. That’ how the fake endorsement of Trump by Taylor Swift, which Taylor Swift was made aware oof ad said that was why she went public with her endorsement got re”tweeted” by Trump. Nobody genuinely for Trump could imagine that that fake endorsement would last – this was not a few days before Election Day. It could be, of course, that Trump simply recirculates anything that redounds to his favor, but still somebody has to call it to his attention.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  321. Vance has admitted he was trying to make a point.

    Vance is almost floundering.

    From the Wall Street Journal article printed Momday, September 16, 2024, page A5:

    On Sunday, Vance defended his circulation of the pet-eating claims, saying that he was merely echoing reports he had heard from Ohio constituents, whom he didn’t identify. The paragraph you skipped:

    “The evidence is the firsthand account of my constituents who are telling me that this happened,” the Ohio senator said in a CNN interview.

    I don’t know what that is, but it seems to me that Vance is claiming to have personally spoken to people who claimed to have seen this.

    Vance is either outright lying (and would he dare, without consulting Trump?) or he was the target of a disinformation campaigns.

    And that would explain why a strange improbable anti-Irregular immigrant story involved Ohio. Only people from Ohio could hope to get through to Senator Vance. Setting this in Nebraska wouldn’t work. It wasn’t that the Republicans are trying to lose Ohio.

    Continuing with the WSJ article:

    “The American media totally ignored this stuff until Donald Trump and I started talking about cat meat,” Vance said. “If I have to create stories so that the American media actually pays attention to the suffering of the American people, then that’s what I’m going to do because you guys are completely letting Kamala Harris coast.”

    Read the next paragraph:

    Vance later clarified that he didn’t mean that he had concocted the story but had shared what he described as “verifiable and confirmable” allegations made by residents concerned about an influx of migrants into the city.

    “I say that we’re creating a story, meaning we’re creating the American media focusing on it,” he said.

    Vance seems to be giving every possible answer here.

    If he tried to say it is justified because he got the American media interested in something else anti0aitian he took it back. He denied he had concocted the story.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  322. Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 9/16/2024 @ 12:40 pm


    🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
    LOL! That’s about a fact free post if there ever was one.

    Rip Murdock (fc3b85)

  323. Whatever conspiracy of people invented the story. And it might have been backed up with material supplied to Vance and Trump in the form of fake 911 calls and fake or misidentified video.

    Assuming this true (a monstrous assumption) it just shows how easily Trump and Vance can be played. 🤣🤣🤣😜

    Rip Murdock (fc3b85)

  324. Vance also had a problem is explaining how proposed Trump tax law changes: NO tax on tips, no tax on overtime and no tax on Social Security benefits, was consistent with fiscal conservatism.

    Of course Harris has her own unfunded (as far as I know) middle class tax cut:

    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/harris-trump-presidential-debate-transcript/story?id=113560542

    I love our small businesses. My plan is to give a $50,000 tax deduction to start-up small businesses, knowing they are part of the backbone of America’s economy. My opponent, on the other hand, his plan is to do what he has done before, which is to provide a tax cut for billionaires and big corporations, which will result in $5 trillion to America’s deficit.

    That sounds like elimination of taxation of the first $50,000 a new business makes. No doubt with all sorts of hoops and levers, but still.

    This is actually an idea of Al Sharpton’s, except that when he was promoting it some years ago, (2004?) it was only $20,000 I think.

    This doesn’t seem to be it:

    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Al+Sharpton++tax++cut+%2420%2c000+businesess+start+deduction+2004&qpvt=al+sharpton++tax++cut+%2420%2c000+businesess+start+deduction+2004&FORM=VDRE

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  325. The Taliban and RFK Jr. have something in common: Anti-vax.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  326. The Miami US Attorney is currently speaking at the press conference regarding the assassination attempt.

    Markenzy Lapointe “ was born in Port-au-Prince, Haiti.“

    Hahaha! Tell me God doesn’t have a sense of humor.

    BuDuh (b6117a)

  327. My conclusion is: It is most likely that there is a anti-Trump operation that has ben penetrated and subverted by pro-Harris people,

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 9/16/2024 @ 9:38 am

    Assumes absolutely nothing in evidence.

    Rip Murdock (fc3b85)

  328. Rip Murdock (fc3b85) — 9/16/2024 @ 1:01 pm

    Assuming this true (a monstrous assumption)

    Whoever invented the story, it’s monstrous.

    it just shows how easily Trump and Vance can be played. 🤣🤣🤣😜

    No, because we don’t know how long the deception could be maintained if it wasn’t publicized.

    We do know that Trump long ago dropped the idea of the DNC server being supposedly in Ukraine.

    What we’re getting now is Trump being stubborn – unwilling to admit he was wrong anywhere.

    The New York Post (or Gerbil) today described the pet-eat claims as dubious:

    https://nypost.com/2024/09/15/us-news/jd-vance-digs-in-heels-on-wild-pet-consumption-rumors-as-gop-ohio-gov-defends-migrants

    GOP veep nominee and Ohio Sen. JD Vance on Sunday doubled-down on peddling dubious claims about Haitian migrants eating pets, while the Republican governor of his home state decried the assertion.

    An editorial today also didn’t disagree it was false, but said there were other problems with the increase in the Haitian population:

    https://nypost.com/2024/09/15/opinion/forget-the-ducks-the-harris-biden-border-crisis-punishes-everyone-in-america [entitled The Full Open-Border Bill in the printed paper.

    The Harris-Biden border catastrophe isn’t some abstract policy failure. It’s a nightmare inflicting punishing human costs on everyday Americans.

    And debunking the internet obsession over “eating pets” in Springfield, Ohio, doesn’t make the real suffering go away.

    For starters, there’s the chaos on Springfield’s roads driven by lawless migrant motorists, and the way the town’s social services are stretched to the limit….

    And there’s also a mention in a column about Eric Adams by Nicole Gelinas

    https://nypost.com/2024/09/15/opinion/scandal-incompetence-puts-adams-at-risk-of-irrelevance

    Similarly, a business bigwig was recently musing about how East Midtown executives are really upset about the state of the Roosevelt Hotel.

    It’s easy to see why: The back of the building is covered in graffiti, dirty hotel laundry spills out of a giant streetside container, a guy frequently sits outside cutting people’s hair for a few bucks, and general chaos reigns (no cat eating, though).

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  329. My conclusion is: It is most likely that there is a anti-Trump operation that has ben penetrated and subverted by pro-Harris people,

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 9/16/2024 @ 9:38 am

    Assumes absolutely nothing in evidence.

    Rip Murdock (fc3b85) — 9/16/2024 @ 1:32 pm

    I know, but what do you assume in the absence of evidence?

    This is the simplest possible explanation. In no other way does anything that happened make sense.

    I’ll be looking for evidence.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  330. Paul Montagu (062117) — 9/16/2024 @ 1:14 pm

    The Taliban and RFK Jr. have something in common: Anti-vax.

    In Pakistan, there are people looking for concessions and inducements by the government in return for agreeing to allow the polio vaccination program to go forward.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/13/world/asia/pakistan-polio.html

    Conservative religious scholars and militant groups have falsely asserted that the vaccination campaign is a Western conspiracy to sterilize Muslims, or that the vaccines contain ingredients derived from pigs, which are forbidden in Islam. Such claims have prompted entire communities to refuse vaccination.

    Another problem: militants who attack vaccinators. This year, 15 people, mostly police officers, have been killed and 37 injured during vaccination campaigns, according to officials.

    “Police officers are always easy targets, but those protecting polio vaccination teams are even more vulnerable,” said Muhammad Jamil, a Peshawar police officer…

    ….Pakistani health workers have also reported facing pressure from parents and local leaders to falsely mark children’s fingers with indelible ink, indicating they’ve been vaccinated even if they haven’t — a practice that health officials say has significantly contributed to the virus resurgence. Many vaccinators also do not report when families refuse to be vaccinated, fearing backlash if authorities take action against resistant families or tribes, health officials said.

    In Pakistan’s tribal areas, polio vaccination has been used as a bargaining chip for local leaders desperate for better government services in a region that the authorities have historically overlooked.

    On Monday, some communities in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa Province announced that they refused to vaccinate their children unless their demands — including improved infrastructure and support for people returning to villages after they were displaced during military operations — were met.

    Protester leaders ordered community members to comply with the boycott, threatening to fine any family who violates it.

    “We may not know whether the vaccine harms our children or not,” said Malik Shamshad, a leader of one of the boycott campaigns. “But we know that the government comes under pressure and resolves our problems when we refuse to vaccinate the children.”

    Maybe it could also be a negotiating ploy by the Taliban.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  331. The would be assassin was interviewed by the New York Times in an article published March 25, 2023 (sometimes these are researched for months – the interview could stem from 2022)

    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/25/world/europe/volunteers-us-ukraine-lies.html

    …With Legion growth stalling, Ryan Routh, a former construction worker from Greensboro, N.C., is seeking recruits from among Afghan soldiers who fled the Taliban. Mr. Routh, who spent several months in Ukraine last year, said he planned to move them, in some cases illegally, from Pakistan and Iran to Ukraine. He said dozens had expressed interest.

    “We can probably purchase some passports through Pakistan, since it’s such a corrupt country,” he said in an interview from Washington.

    It is not clear whether he has succeeded, but one former Afghan soldier said he had been contacted and was interested in fighting if it meant leaving Iran, where he was living illegally.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  332. OMG,

    Trump and Vance are strong because they tell the inconvenient truth of the illegal Venezuelan Haitians.

    Trump and Vance are strong because they they admit when they’re wrong.

    Trump and Vance are strong because they were made fools of.

    Or, hear me out, they’re just fools. I know, there’s never been any incident, not even one, where they’ve said and done moronic things. At least that I have heard in the last 3 minutes. Months, well, that’s a slightly larger number, maybe only in the low millions, lifetime, ooh boy.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  333. So, Trump is so dumb, and Harris so smart, to convince Trump to keep doubling down on the most moronic thing possible.

    And saying that Trump is a fool, who was fooled, makes him look better?

    Dude, this just proves that he shouldn’t be negotiating with anyone who graduated from elementary school, the bestest graduations school.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  334. I’m going to repeat part of a comment I posted upthread. By the time it came out of moderation, I doubt anyone saw it. It’s Pat’s concise and damning take on the dispute that’s consumed much of this thread:

    The connection between GOP rhetoric and what happened in Springfield is clear and obvious. No serious person can deny it.

    The connection between rhetoric and this clown’s actions today is so tenuous I can’t imagine a serious person making the case.

    lurker (c23034)

  335. lurker (c23034) — 9/16/2024 @ 2:21 pm
    I disagree.

    As distasteful this is, making the other side play by their own rules becomes an important task. You do have to fight in the mud…in the gutters at some point.

    Democrats have spent decades claiming that every utterance by a Republican is an incitement to violence. They chase down every Republican politician, every center-right commentariats to defend or actively denounce every bad actors in their “group”. In a very, extremely asymmetrical manner.

    They even tried to say that Trump standing up and saying “fight” after he was shot was inciteful!!! A legit, “how wore a short skirt” premise!

    So, please…pretty please why is it not fair game to point out when Dems use inflammatory language leading up to one of their own trying to kill Trump?

    Most on this board blame Trump’s inflammatory language in the aftermath of the 2020 election the led to J6.

    Is it, or is it not different?

    Make it make sense!

    whembly (477db6)

  336. Ugh… would be nice to have edit features here…

    Meant to say:
    A legit, “he work a short skirt!”…

    whembly (477db6)

  337. This is the simplest possible explanation. In no other way does anything that happened make sense.

    I’ll be looking for evidence.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 9/16/2024 @ 1:39 pm

    LOL! Good luck. Let us know if you also find Sasquatch. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  338. Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 9/16/2024 @ 2:07 pm

    Trump and Vance are strong because they they admit when they’re wrong.

    Trump never admits he was wrong, and Vance never admits Trump was wrong – at least till November 5 – or January 20 maybe.

    They’re not strong doing that.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  339. what do you assume in the absence of evidence?

    Since there is no evidence of an “anti-Trump operation”, I take it at face value that Vance was sincere in his cat eating storytelling, and that Trump picked up on it to repeat during the debate.

    No grand conspiracy is necessary.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  340. RIP founding member of the Jackson 5 Tito Jackson (70):

    ……….
    Jackson was a founding member of the group of five brothers, along with Jackie, Jermaine, Marlon and Michael, who shot to fame in the late 1960s and 1970s with a string of hits. Tito Jackson was nominated for three Grammys and inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1997 as a member of the Jackson 5.
    ……….
    Tito Jackson, who was prevented from playing guitar on Jackson 5 records in favor of session musicians, later launched his own career as a solo blues musician in 2003.
    #########

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  341. Which candidate is less irresponsible on the deficit? Harris, or the Loser? Natasha Sarin is a partisan, but she isn’t wrong when she claims Harris is better on the deficit. And her opponent is a man who has six! bankruptcies to his debit.

    The national debt is on an unsustainable path: Federal debt relative to gross domestic product is on track to surpass its post-World War II record by 2027, according to the Congressional Budget Office. It won’t stop there. The country will almost certainly need more government investment in the years ahead because of national security concerns, an aging population and the existential threat posed by climate change.
    . . .
    But here, as in most arenas, the gap between Vice President Kamala Harris and former president Donald Trump is large. Trump’s proposals would add at least $4.5 trillion to the deficit over the next decade. In contrast, Harris could actually achieve some deficit reduction depending upon how much of the GOP tax cuts she opts to extend. At worst, her plan would increase deficits only modestly, by less than one-fifth of the Trump total.

    (Sarin gives too much credit to Clinton for achieving surpluses, not even mentioning George H. W. Bush’s “peace dividend”, and the fact that for six years, Clinton faced a Republican Congress led by Bob Dole and Newt Gingrich.

    Judging only by that experience, if we want to see federal deficits cut, we should elect Harris and, as soon as possible, a Republican Congress. Preferably one with more work horses and fewer show horses.)

    Jim Miller (d8fd89)

  342. DeWine is reporting that all 33 bomb threats in Springfield were hoaxes, a number of them from overseas, of which a number are from a particular country, and it’s an easy guess which country, IMO, rhymes with Fussia.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  343. And someone, whose name rhymes with Futin, just endorsed Kamala.

    This is a curious development, Paul.

    BuDuh (b6117a)

  344. Paul, I’m shocked, shocked I tell you.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  345. We’ve been over Putin’s psy-op endorsement. It’s like catnip to the MAGA rubes.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  346. From Paul’s article:

    DeWine on Monday indicated the threats were being made by non-American actors.

    Let me see if I understand this dastardly plan.

    Trump riled up his MAGA base to be their normal racist selves. He painted an easy target for them to direct their ignorant ire. Foreigners took over and called in the bomb threats. Trump is then is pinned as the mastermind of his own bad publicity stunt as a result of Russian interference.

    That is pretty slick.

    Not being any sort of ad wizard myself, I would have thought he would have asked his Russian friends to do something that would have made him look good.

    But I will trust Paul and Klink on their Underpants Gnomes theory. It must make sense somehow…

    BuDuh (b6117a)

  347. SWATters use VPN for VoIP all the time to hide the origin of the call and a lot of VPNs are based in Russia as the Russian trollbots here could testify.

    It could be a guy with a laptop outside the school or hospital and it would show as coming from Ekaterinburg.

    nk (bb1548)

  348. So Paul’s source is premature and likely incorrect, nk?

    BuDuh (b6117a)

  349. If I were in the OHSP I’d probably use the wordpress shortcode converter plugin available for Chrome to flag which VPN or TOR endpoint is consistently used.

    I know on this blog, if you convert, it’s weird that suspected sockies all have the same endpoint.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  350. IOW, nk, I think you identified Paul’s and Klink’s “catnip.”

    👍

    BuDuh (b6117a)

  351. Paul’s source is Republican Governor Mike DeWine

    “We have people, unfortunately overseas, who are taking these actions. Some of them are coming from one particular country,” he said, not specifying the country to which he was referring. “We think that this is one more opportunity to mess with the United States, and they’re continuing to do that. So we cannot let the bad guys win.”

    and Paul said so. I have used VoIP but never VPN so I do not have the expertise to strongly assert that DeWine is premature or likely incorrect.

    nk (bb1548)

  352. Ok. Thanks. So Paul source about the threats being foreign born is probably correct? I tend to agree.

    BuDuh (b6117a)

  353. The Independent took DeWine’s words mean that “at least some of them had come from overseas”, and that’s how I took it, too.

    One thing we can all expect from Trump (and his little VP boy, too) is that he won’t turn down the extreme rhetoric.

    Trump: “Democrats said please don’t call immigrants animals. I said, no, they’re not humans, they’re animals.”

    This is really beneath contempt for this contemptible human.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  354. Unlike its alleged Senator J. the D is for Organ Grinder’s Monkey Vance, DeWine is looking out for his State and its peace and dignity.

    nk (bb1548)

  355. No fascists callouts for thee, but it’s okay for me.

    VANCE TODAY: “We cannot tell the American people that one candidate is a fascist.”

    TRUMP 11 DAYS AGO: “Kamala Harris is the first major party nominee in American history who fundamentally rejects freedom and embraces Marxism, communism, and fascism.”

    Quite a bit of the extreme rhetoric will stop when one particular candidate puts a sock in the extreme rhetoric.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  356. DeWine is reporting that all 33 bomb threats in Springfield were hoaxes, a number of them from overseas…….

    An assertion without evidence. It’s easy to spoof the origin of phone calls, so I would take it with a grain of salt.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  357. Paul Montagu (062117) — 9/16/2024 @ 5:21 pm

    Extreme rhetoric is a one-way street, doncha know.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  358. Extreme rhetoric is a one-way street, doncha know.

    the person responsible for the violence is the violent person.

    BuDuh (b6117a)

  359. Hence why I said “quite a bit”, Rip, but there’s one side that’s dehumanizing humans, as Catoggio articulated.

    On the other side of the ballot, meanwhile, the witch hunt directed at Haitian immigrants in Springfield, Ohio, has become one of the most disgraceful episodes of Trump’s disgraceful career.

    Jonathan Last isn’t exaggerating when he says it resembles a blood libel. “Haitians are eating pets” doesn’t match “Jews are eating babies” for outlandishness, but the point of both smears is the same: to reduce some foreign cohort to the status of savages who deserve expulsion or worse. “You look at Haiti, you look at the demographic makeup, you look at the average IQ—if you import the third world into your country, you’re going to become the third world,” Donald Trump’s son and potential political heir said last week, eliminating whatever shred of subtlety remained in all of this.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  360. US Secret Service says it is aware of Musk post about Biden, Harris

    ………..
    “The Secret Service is aware of the social media post made by Elon Musk and as a matter of practice, we do not comment on matters involving protective intelligence,” a spokesperson told Reuters in an email. “We can say, however, that the Secret Service investigates all threats related to our protectees.”

    The spokesperson declined to specify whether the agency had reached out to Musk……..
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  361. Man the left wing trolls are out in force today trying to deflect from another assassination attempt.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  362. What’s the weather like on alt-Earth, Rob?
    How come you’re afraid to answer my questions?

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  363. Poor Vance. He made this bed in his blind ambition, but it is really hard to operate coherently inside the Trumpian message domain.

    Kevin M (7383ec)

  364. Man the left wing trolls are out in force today trying to deflect from another assassination attempt.

    The defining thing about this guy was that he was a multiple felon and certifiable. He may have had attitudes that align with #neverTRump, but he also had attitudes that aligned with the red lectroids from planet 10.

    Kevin M (7383ec)

  365. Tom Nichols

    In 1975, two people tried to kill Gerald Ford in less than three weeks.
    Amazingly, Ford didn’t try to rile up the country, inflame America’s anger – or try to fundraise off it.
    But that’s back when we expected more of our national leaders.

    After some throat-clearing, including “I want our government to ensure his safety—I am willing to be taxed to pay for his security”…

    If only Trump and his homunculus, J. D. Vance, cared as much about the safety of others as so many others care about theirs.

    My colleague David A. Graham has already noted the misery that Vance is bringing down on his own constituents in Ohio, using hatred against immigrants to set neighbors against one another, a conflict that has led to the closure of schools and the lockdown of two hospitals. Vance is a product of such a working-class town, but in reality he is an utterly synthetic politician, a power-seeking drone who will do almost anything to further his political fortunes. In this case, he is casting the innocent people of Springfield, Ohio, in his own obscene little drama about migrant savages roaming the streets of the heartland trying to sink their teeth into Fluffy and Fido. Sure, it’s a pack of lies—Vance admitted on CNN that he and Trump are “creating stories”—but it’s all for the greater good, you see, of advancing the career of the Hillbilly Senator.

    Trump, meanwhile, is turning the violence against him into fuel for more political hatred. In July, a young man—a loner with no obvious political agenda—tried to kill Trump in Pennsylvania, and almost did. And now another man is under arrest for a possible assassination attempt after being discovered near Trump’s golf course, apparently lying in wait for the former president. Once again, the suspect seems to be something of a weird loner who said on X that he voted for Trump in 2016 but in subsequent elections, according to federal campaign-finance records, began donating to Democrats. One might hope that these brushes with death would bring Trump a moment of reflection and, perhaps, even something like grace. But if Trump were capable of such a response, he wouldn’t be the man he is.

    After the attack in July, Trump engaged in a self-indulgent ramble at the GOP convention, but he did not blame the Democrats; he left that for his surrogates in the party. This time, he’s not even bothering with any of that outsourcing and is instead using this latest incident to blame his political opponents, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, for putting him in danger. He also blames the justice system and the charges brought against him—charges in multiple venues that have been filed in the name of the State of Georgia, the People of New York State, and the United States of America—for encouraging others to try to kill him.

    He posted this today on Truth Social and X, and I offer it here verbatim and in its entirety:

    The Rhetoric, Lies, as exemplified by the false statements made by Comrade Kamala Harris during the rigged and highly partisan ABC Debate, and all of the ridiculous lawsuits specifically designed to inflict damage on Joe’s, then Kamala’s, Political Opponent, ME, has taken politics in our Country to a whole new level of Hatred, Abuse, and Distrust. Because of this Communist Left Rhetoric, the bullets are flying, and it will only get worse! Allowing millions of people, from places unknown, to INVADE and take over our Country, is an unpardonable sin. OUR BORDERS MUST BE CLOSED, AND THE TERRORISTS, CRIMINALS, AND MENTALLY INSANE, IMMEDIATELY REMOVED FROM AMERICAN CITIES AND TOWNS, DEPORTED BACK TO THEIR COUNTIES OF ORIGIN. WE WANT PEOPLE TO COME INTO OUR COUNTRY, BUT THEY MUST LOVE OUR NATION, AND COME IN LEGALLY AND THROUGH A SYSTEM OF MERIT. THE WORLD IS LAUGHING AT US AS FOOLS, THEY ARE STEALING OUR JOBS AND OUR WEALTH. WE CANNOT LET THEM LAUGH ANY LONGER. MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!

    In other words, Trump is blaming two possible attempts to kill him on pretty much anyone who isn’t an open partisan on his side, and that includes Biden, Harris, me, and millions of other Americans.

    Self-awareness is not part of Trump’s personality: He is complaining about overheated rhetoric while constantly spewing such rhetoric himself. He has called Harris various names, and he refers to everyone else he doesn’t like as “vermin” and “scum” and other insults. (Today he called the sitting president and vice president of the United States “the enemy from within.”) Many of Trump’s political opponents and public critics have been the targets of plots and threats, including a pipe-bombing campaign. At this point, with two apparent plots against him foiled, a more thoughtful person would consider what he could do to help turn down the temperature in the nation. But again, Trump is not that kind of man.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  366. Kevin,

    you know what these mobys are and they’ve made this site worse for it. All it takes is being MeverTrump and their vile remarks are tolerated and applauded.

    When they didn’t get responses, they kept on bringing up names of their betters to try and provoke a response.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  367. Paul Montagu (062117) — 9/16/2024 @ 3:32 pm

    and it’s an easy guess which country, IMO, rhymes with Fussia.

    Putin’s spy agencies wouldn’t be hat obvious,
    .
    More likely it’s some NATO country.

    https://vsquare.org/leaked-files-putin-troll-factory-russia-european-elections-factory-of-fakes

    According to Ukrainian prosecutors, as well as European security agencies, Medvedchuk is also associated with the Voice Of Europe scandal: MEPs were paid to disseminate Russian propaganda; several participated in activities organized by pro-Russian media outlet Voice of Europe, which was used to funnel the money. After the network’s associates in the Czech Republic and Poland (where authorities seized €48,500 and $36,000) were arrested, the outlet and connected businessmen were sanctioned by the EU. Later, Belgian police raided the EU Parliament office and private home of an assistant to an MEP who worked for the far-right Alternative for Germany (AfD) party and received Russian money through the Voice of Europe network.

    An

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  368. Man the left wing trolls are out in force today trying to deflect from another assassination attempt.

    FTR, I wrote 8 comments yesterday (the first of which triggered BuDuh) concerning the assassination attempt, which is the opposite of “deflect”, hence alt-Earth.
    Yesterday, CNN reported that he chose “unaffiliated” for a political party in 2012, and I haven’t heard or read that it changed since that time. He’s right where he belongs, behind bars, and hopefully he’ll stay there for a good, long time.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  369. Sammy,
    Medvedchuk was jailed in Ukraine for treason, and then he was sent to Russia in a prisoner exchange. Medvedchuk’s daughter has Putin for her godfather. The Russian Godfather is a godfather.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  370. Putin’s spy agencies wouldn’t be hat obvious,
    .
    More likely it’s some NATO country.

    Again, lacking evidence.

    Rip Murdock (fc3b85)

  371. MKH on Biden admin foot-dragging on the previous assassination.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  372. NJRobb, there are like 2 actual liberals on this site. There are other people who are liberal on one or two issues, or who are moderate, but there are only maybe 2 actual liberals.

    Nic (120c94)

  373. Nic @378

    Comedy gold!

    lloyd (f283a3)

  374. Sean ‘Diddy’ Combs arrested in New York after grand jury indictment, reports say

    Details of the charges weren’t immediately announced by prosecutors, but Combs’ lawyer, Marc Agnifilo, issued a statement saying: “We are disappointed with the decision to pursue what we believe is an unjust prosecution of Mr. Combs by the U.S. Attorney’s Office.”

    He added that Combs had gone to New York last week in anticipation of the charges being brought.

    “He is an imperfect person, but he is not a criminal,” Agnifilo said.

    Criminal charges would be a major but not unexpected takedown of one of the most prominent producers and most famous names in the history of hip-hop.

    The federal investigation of the 58-year-old Combs was revealed when Homeland Security Investigations agents served simultaneous search warrants and raided Combs’ mansions in Los Angeles and Miami on March 25.

    His defense attorney Aaron Dyer the day after the raids called them “a gross use of military-level force,” said the allegations were “meritless,” and said Combs was “innocent and will continue to fight” to clear his name.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  375. Vance: Dems need to ‘cut this crap out’ after possible assassination attempt

    “I’d say that’s pretty strong evidence that the left needs to tone down the rhetoric and needs to cut this crap out,” the Ohio senator said.

    I’d say there’s a boy without a sense of irony.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  376. Assassination conspiracy theories, Laura Looner Edition:

    @Laura Loomer

    Coincidence? Or coordination?

    On 9/11,
    @Time
    Magazine posted this cover of their paper for this month. It’s a photo of Donald Trump on the golf course with the words “In Trouble”.

    Did they have advance knowledge of the attempted assassination of President Trump today at his golf club in West Palm Beach FL!?!

    @Laura Loomer
    Really makes you wonder how the shooter knew where President Trump would be!

    Rip Murdock (a76356)

  377. More conspiracy theorists:

    ………….
    Mike Adams, the founder of the fringe health site Natural News, tweeted about the conspiracy theory on Sunday as well. Adams, who has appeared on Alex Jones’ show and goes by “the Health Ranger,” even claimed to have a “source” with special knowledge of what happened.

    “A source tells me the leak of Trump’s whereabouts is coming from Homeland Security, not USSS. Homeland Security is leaking location details to FBI, and FBI is running the assassins. The entire top leadership of the FBI is desperately trying to figure out how to eliminate Trump, while the loyal elements of US Secret Service are trying to stop it,” Adams wrote.
    ………….
    “Homeland Security and US State Dept are full-on treasonous criminal ops at this point. If Homeland can’t eliminate Trump soon, State Dept will make sure a war begins with Russia. If they fail, hundreds of top people within FBI and Homeland are going to either flee the country or be criminally prosecuted under a Trump presidency. This is what’s at stake,” Adams continued.
    ………..
    Ian Carroll, a right wing influencer and conspiracy theorist, tweeted a video speculating that Routh was a “CIA asset.”

    “Is this evidence the Trump assassin was a CIA asset? It’s still early, don’t jump to any conclusions. I’m just out here doing the FBIs [sic] job for them because we all know Chris Ray busy prepping the cover up as we speak,” Carroll wrote, misspelling the last name of FBI director Christopher Wray.
    ………….

    Rip Murdock (a76356)

  378. @377 I am a lefty more then liberal ;but the left is starting to pass me by.

    asset (0d7754)

  379. Reagan on the people “of Haiti” and others yearning for freedom, but Reagan wouldn’t recognize Trump, this party or this cult of personality.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  380. I don’t think jd vance should be asking why yice president Harris hasn’t been assassinated yet. Its getting nasty.

    asset (0d7754)

  381. I’ve been wondering why Trump and Vance are bleating on about the liberals bringing in “illegal Venezuelan Haitians” to Ohio.

    Who the f–k do they thing runs Ohio?

    Ohio has a Republican trifecta and a Republican triplex. The Republican Party controls the offices of governor, secretary of state, attorney general, and both chambers of the state legislature.

    I mean, I know that neither Trump nor Vance have any ties to Ohio whatsoever…what’s that…one is a REPUBLICAN senator from Ohio? Huh? Weird.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  382. Recapping the results from my questions from last night.
    –MAGA 1: Troll
    –MAGA 2: Crickets
    –MAGA 3: Crickets
    –MAGA 4: No condemnation of Trump for his multiple lies, no blame for Trump for the bomb threats
    –MAGA 5: See MAGA 4

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  383. When you have an idiot spouting such a mountain of shyte, sometimes you miss some doozies

    ‘Not that simple’: Trump drags Canadian river into California’s water problems

    “You have millions of gallons of water pouring down from the north with the snow caps and Canada, and all pouring down and they essentially have a very large faucet, you turn the faucet and it takes one day to turn it, and it’s massive, it’s as big as the wall of that building right there behind you. You turn that, and all of that water aimlessly goes into the Pacific, and if you turned that back, all of that water would come right down here and into Los Angeles”

    He might be talking about the Columbia River, which doesn’t flow into California and there is no mechanism today to make it so. That’s just plain dumb.

    Or…he’s as mentally defective as he sounds, and thinks there’s an actual big faucet “as big as that building over there” that you turn to make water flow into the Pacific, or LA, or something. Idiot, I mean clinically, IQ below 25, he’d have to smarten up to get to imbecile and triple up for moron.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  384. Another MAGA galaxy brain

    Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene escalated a conspiracy theory about the presidential debate so blatantly baseless that even she couldn’t back it up.

    In the wake of Donald Trump’s disastrous debate performance last week, during which he falsely claimed that immigrants were eating their neighbors’ pets, Republicans have scrambled to create a narrative that might explain away their candidate’s flailing.

    Conservatives have begun claiming that there was a so-called “whistleblower” at ABC News who could prove that Kamala Harris had received the questions in advance and had an agreement with the moderators that she would not be fact-checked. Such claims appeared to originate from a few far-right accounts, including someone who participated in the January 6 riot, with absolutely no evidence to support them.

    The MAGA Republican representative from Georgia took the outlandish claims a step further Sunday.

    “The ABC whistleblower who claimed Kamala Harris was given debate questions ahead of the debate has died in a car crash according to news reports,” Greene wrote in a post on X.

    Four hours later, Greene tried to walk back her claim, without retracting the actual misinformation.

    “This story appears to be false, and I’m glad to hear it,” Greene wrote, referring to reports that the so-called “whistleblower” had died. “We need a serious investigation into the whistleblower’s report that Kamala Harris was given debate questions ahead of time from ABC!”

    Greene did not delete her original post, but a lengthy community note appeared beneath it, which clarified that the unverified story had come from a random WordPress blog.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  385. Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 9/16/2024 @ 9:36 pm

    My brother who was an engineer, who lived in the Bay Area since the Beatles broke up, who has studied the water issue in CA for the last five decades, told me that Trump is completely ignorant and full of sh-t on water. Forest management, too. The situation is way too complicated for him to comprehend. There won’t be taking any water from Oregon or the Columbia.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  386. @359

    One thing we can all expect from Trump (and his little VP boy, too) is that he won’t turn down the extreme rhetoric.

    Trump: “Democrats said please don’t call immigrants animals. I said, no, they’re not humans, they’re animals.”

    This is really beneath contempt for this contemptible human.

    Paul Montagu (062117) — 9/16/2024 @ 5:12 pm

    LOL Paul, that quote is from April, and here’s what he said before Kamala HQ lied about it:

    “The 22-year-old nursing student in Georgia who was barbarically murdered by an illegal alien animal. The Democrats say, ‘please don’t call them animals, they’re humans.’ I said ‘no, they’re not humans, they’re animals.'”

    I’m surprised you don’t remember, because you lied about it then just as Kamala and you are lying about it now. The Georgia student is Laken Riley, and yes the person who raped and murdered her is an animal, just as others who have committed violent crimes are animals.

    But keep lying about the timing and lying about what he said, because Kamala needs folks like you to buttress her lies.

    lloyd (f283a3)

  387. The only question is why Meta is banning Russia Today today and not years ago.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  388. lloyd (f283a3) — 9/16/2024 @ 10:14 pm

    Hi Crickets. Trump dehumanizes humans frequently, like he did six days ago and six months ago.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  389. So Trump said it, referring to people. Paul claimed that he said it and linked to the words from when it happened. But he’s lying about the words Trump said and when he said it, you just don’t like that the fat stupid racist was quoted saying fat stupid racist things.

    He could have said the guy was a murderer, he also didn’t say he, he said they.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  390. Paul Montagu (062117) — 9/16/2024 @ 10:24 pm

    Hi Liar. You even lie about people ignoring your inane questions. See @311 @312, Liar. You lie frequently, like you did today and six months ago. You even recycle your own lies. When are you going to recycle the Musk Russian Cybertruck lie? Did you forget you told that one too? Is there a Kamala lie you won’t repeat?

    lloyd (f283a3)

  391. Ooh, angry little cricket.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  392. Appalled @298: “Frankly, I think it is Trump’s tendency to make himself the center that is drawing the murderous nutjobs.”

    Democrats Accuse Trump Of Inciting Further Violence By Not Dying.

    lloyd (f283a3)

  393. Funny how you bullies get so irate when someone punches back, and I’ll note that twice lied about me in this very thread. I’m waiting for you to follow Trump’s suit and play the victim now.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  394. @397 Ooh angry little liar.

    lloyd (f283a3)

  395. Socky, it’s not funny if you just repeat his burn of you.

    Nuhuh, you are. WellDuhhh

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  396. Great question below, and great that Mr. Hasan skewered Ms. Stein for refusing to concede that Putin is a war criminal.

    She won’t say it because she can’t. Why? Why is Jill Stein who dined with Mike Flynn and Putin in Moscow and only shows up every 4 years as a spoiler and has never even bothered to build a party or run other races…why does she refuse to call Putin a war criminal?

    It’s a mystery

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  397. whembly (477db6) — 9/16/2024 @ 2:36 pm

    So many evasions and changes of subject. Pat made two straightforward assertions. I’ll repeat them:

    The connection between GOP rhetoric and what happened in Springfield is clear and obvious. No serious person can deny it.

    The connection between rhetoric and this clown’s actions today is so tenuous I can’t imagine a serious person making the case.

    If you disputed the accuracy of either assertion — and, no, “whatabout”s and “two can play at that game”s are evasions, not denials — I couldn’t find it.

    lurker (c23034)

  398. @403 What happened In Springfield? Unsupported accusations that Haitians ate cats and unsupported accusations that MAGA called in bomb threats. Anything else?

    lloyd (f283a3)

  399. Two assassination attempts on a presidential candidate, one within an inch of being successful, seems like something serious.

    lloyd (f283a3)

  400. If the assassination attempts were against the other candidates, seriously, what would we be hearing right now? Be honest.

    lloyd (f283a3)

  401. Typical MAGA, you have to be fair, if my guy is bad, you have to find a way to make the other guy bad. F–k that. If Trump is fact checked 3 times out of 33 lies in the debate, it’s unfair that Harris was only fact check on 1 of 4. It’s fair, Trump’s a lying sack of shyte, he only lies. The tell are the mouth noises.

    Vance began amplifying (not and unsubstantiated) lies from the depths of Facebook (Oh, and yesterday admitted they’re making them up to divert attention), also pushed by Loomer. Trump took it, and has now repeated it every day. It is a made up story, everyone knows it’s a made up story. There’s no f–king “both sides”. Vance also tried to both sides a thing saying it was media’s job to find citizens saying these things in Springfield.

    1)He had just said he created the story.
    2)The original Facebook poster said it was made up.
    3)About 500 reporters are in Springfield, for a week, and no one, anywhere, can find a soul. If Vance believes his “reports” are called by human people, find one.
    4)The 500 reporters there have seen proud boys marching through the streets and the American Nazi party marching and passing out flyers.

    So, Trump and Vance spend a week telling their feeble minded toe suckers that the brown people are eating the pets. Nazi’s and their cuddle buddies show up, and then all these calls start coming in to places that serve the locals. That’s not a shadowy conspiracy, that’s a straight line, in neon, blinking, with air horns, shooting fireworks out of its crack.

    That’s not two sides bubba, that’s a hateful bunch of Nazi’s doing Nazi things. If one side has Nazi’s, the people in the foxhole with them are…f–cking Nazi’s.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  402. Two assassination attempts on a presidential candidate, one within an inch of being successful, seems like something serious.

    Yup, but you think it’s not because he’s been preaching ATTACK for 9 years.

    Do people shooting at him make him less of a piece of shyte?

    Do you seriously think that Trump would be out condemning it? you know, like Harris, Biden, Walz, Romney…in fact find a person on this blog or a public official that said it’s a bad thing that they arrested this guy before he shot.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  403. Nice Kevin Williamson essay, The Exotic Cat-Eaters of Springfield, Ohio. Here’s how it begins:

    They come to Ohio from one of the most desperately poor places in the Western Hemisphere. They have few to no belongings. In many cases, they are uneducated, and most don’t speak English well. They do not understand the local culture where they have settled—and it shows: in their dress, in their speech, in their manners, in their housing arrangements, in the food they eat, and in the music they dance to.

    Most profess to be Christians, but many maintain superstitious folk magic traditions from their homeland, and many quietly hold to a belief in witchcraft. They blithely violate social taboos. Locals complain that they are stealing their jobs, driving up costs, and consuming too much in the way of social services. And then there are the dietary norms: Though the rumors no doubt exceed the reality, some of them eat animals not generally considered food by the good people of Ohio. Ask the locals, and many of them will quietly say that they wish they would all go back to where they came from.

    But that was a long time ago. And while J.D. Vance’s hillbilly ancestors may not have been the inbred, possum-eating, superstitious bushwhackers of legend and lore, as they descended on Ohio from the hills of Kentucky they had more than a little in common with the Haitian immigrants Sen. Vance now spends his days vilifying in terms that would have been familiar to Fritz Hippler, the filmmaker whose 1941 propaganda film Der ewige Jude comes to its climax with images of leering kosher butchers covered in the blood of animals slaughtered in the service of “the so-called Jewish religion.”

    Lord Acton would have us believe that it takes absolute power to corrupt absolutely. But even the dream of the vice presidency—that “bucket of warm piss” in the immortal words of Vice President John Nance Garner—will do the trick, if you are the right kind of person.

    By which, of course, I mean the wrong sort of person—the wrong sort to wield power. You can send little J.D. to Yale to make him polished, you can send him to Silicon Valley to make him rich, and you can send him to the Senate to make him powerful, but you cannot stop him from being what it is he apparently wants to be: Cleetus the Gap-Toothed Twitter Troll.

    lurker (c23034)

  404. Here’s how it ends:

    Vance has turned Solzhenitsyn’s maxim on its head: “Let the lie come into the world, but only through me, and only if I get something good out of it.” A man who is not suffering from whatever disease of the soul with which Vance is afflicted would have a hard time even imagining wanting to be vice president—of all petty things!—that bad. A different and better sort of man would understand that bearing false witness against 15,000 poor and vulnerable people in the pursuit of political power is the same as bearing false witness against anybody else.

    But I’ll give Vance the last word. Here he is on Twitter, back when Twitter was Twitter and J.D. Vance was J.D. Vance: “Trump makes people I care about afraid. Immigrants, Muslims, etc. Because of this, I find him reprehensible. God wants better of us.”

    The meat is in between. Read the whole thing.

    lurker (c23034)

  405. Both Crooks and Routh could have been Vay Jay Dance’s childhood neighbors in Walmartinique.

    nk (47c0eb)

  406. And something else. If Routh has kept his mouth shut and made no incriminating statements, he has a very good chance of beating this (possibly staged) Trump Fundraising Event.

    It’s noteworthy the way the Trump camp took the discussion to “rhetoric” making us tacitly accept their presumptions.

    nk (47c0eb)

  407. @409 Did anyone catch the Holocaust reference? It’s so subtle, you might miss it.

    lloyd (f283a3)

  408. Wooo… fellas… just realize where we are.

    Less than 2 months to the election.

    It’s crazy time ya’ll.

    Buckle up!

    whembly (477db6)

  409. It’s odd how many people don’t know that humans are animals. And that “animal” is used as both an insult and a compliment.

    And it is sad that so many people don’t understand how much we can learn from other animals. There is evidence, for example, that kids grow up better if the family has a dog.

    Many adults in the US could learn from those very successful birds, crows. They are, for example, better at “pair bonding”.

    And so on.

    Jim Miller (3f8215)

  410. Wooo… JD was spitting fire last night:

    Yesterday, Donald J. Trump nearly lost his life. An armed gunman waited for him in the bushes. He brought a go-pro camera to record it. A secret service agent spotted the barrel of a gun through a fence and shot at the gunman. The gunman fled. He was caught. And now we slowly…

    — JD Vance (@JDVance) September 16, 2024

    Yesterday, Donald J. Trump nearly lost his life. An armed gunman waited for him in the bushes. He brought a go-pro camera to record it. A secret service agent spotted the barrel of a gun through a fence and shot at the gunman. The gunman fled. He was caught. And now we slowly learn about him and his motive.

    President Trump is my running mate, and my friend, but he is more importantly a father and grandfather to people who love him very much. I want him to have many more years with his family. (And selfishly, I’d like many more with my own.)

    I admire the president for calling for peace and calm. The rhetoric is out of control. It nearly got Steve Scalise and many others killed a few years ago. It nearly got Donald Trump killed twice. But I want to say something about yesterday’s news, and how it illuminates the difference between vigorous debate and violent rhetoric.

    Here is what we know so far: Kamala Harris has said that “Democracy is on the line” in her race against President Trump. The gunman agreed, and used the exact same phrase. He had a Kamala Harris bumper sticker on his truck. He was obsessed with Ukraine’s “fight for Democracy” and absorbed many unhinged views about the Russia-Ukraine war. HIs name is Ryan Routh, and he donated 19 times to Democrat causes and zero to Republican ones.

    How do you think the Democrats and their media allies would respond if a 19-time Republican donor tried to kill a Democratic official? It’s a question that answers itself. For years, Kamala Harris’s campaign surrogates have said things like “Trump has to be eliminated.” And how have their media allies responded to the second assassination attempt on Donald Trump in as many months?

    NBC News called the attempted assassination a “golf club incident.” The LA Times told us “Trump Targeted at Golf Club.” The USA Today’s top of the fold headline is “Hope in America,” and they published a preposterous letter to the editor arguing that Trump “brings these assassination attempts on himself.” CNN’s Dana Bash–who just yesterday bizarrely accused me of inciting a bomb threat–said today that Harris campaign rhetoric didn’t motivate Routh even though he echoed their rhetoric explicitly.

    PBS’s weekend show perfectly illustrates the double standard of Kamala Harris’s media friends. After spending 30 seconds on the second assassination attempt on President Trump, they then focused on the real danger: me and President Trump, who are, according to them, personally responsible for bomb threats against Springfield. Of course, I repeatedly condemend those threats. And reports today suggest they came from a foreign country, not–as the media suggested–a deranged Trump fan.

    The double standard is breathtaking. Donald Trump and I are, by their account, directly responsible for bomb threats from foreign countries. Why? Because we had the audacity to repeat what residents told us about the problems in their town. Meanwhile, Harris allies call for Trump to be eliminated as the media publishes arguments that he deserved to be shot.

    This seems like a double standard. But at a deep level, it is entirely consistent.

    Consider Springfield. Citizens are telling us that there are problems. These include the undeniable truths of higher car accidents, unaffordable housing, evictions of residents, overcrowded hospitals, overstressed schools, and rising rates of disease. They also include the infamous pet stories–which, again, multiple people have spoken about (either on video or to me or my staff).

    Kamala Harris’s first strategy was to ignore these people and their concerns. Yes, she had prevented the deportation of millions of illegal aliens, and some of them made their way to Springfield. But it was a small town with no voice. Some of the local leadership even loved the cheap labor. So the suffering of thousands of American citizens went ignored.

    Their next move with these stories is censorship. In Springfield, a psychopath (or a foreign government) calls in a bomb threat, so they blame that on President Trump (and me). The threat of violence is disgraceful of course, yet the media seems to relish it. They cover a bomb threat, but not the rise in murders. They cover the threat, but not the HIV uptick. They cover the threat, not the schools overwhelmed with new kids who don’t speak English. They cover the threat, not rising insurance rates or the car accidents that caused them. They cover the threat, not the failures of Kamala Harris’s leadership.

    The purpose is not to turn down the rhetoric. If anything, covering the bomb threats gives whoever makes them exactly what he wants: attention. The purpose is distraction and shame. How dare you talk about the problems of Haitian migration in Springfield? You’re endangering people, simply by discussing the problems of Kamala Harris’s policies. It’s a form of moral blackmail, designed not to make anyone safe but to shut everyone up.

    Springfield is the most recent, but hardly the most egregious example. There was the Hunter Biden laptop story, censored by BigTech. And who can forget that anyone who didn’t support Kamala Harris’s Ukraine policy was drenched in the blood of Ukrainian children. That last one appears to have had some effect on Routh–the most recent would-be assassin. The message is always the same: don’t you dare express an opinion on the public affairs of your nation. The message is: shut up.

    This is the difference between debate–even aggressive debate–and censorship. It is one thing to attack Kamala Harris for “destroying the country” and quite another to say that President Trump should be “eliminated.” It is one thing to criticize overheated rhetoric, and another to say that a former president has invited an assassination on himself. It is one thing to say that Donald J. Trump’s arguments about the election of 2020 are wrong; it is another thing to attempt to remove him from the ballot over it.

    It is one thing to say that pets are not, in fact being eaten, and another thing to say that anyone who disagrees is trying to murder people. Dissent, even vigorous dissent, is a great tradition of the United States. Censorship is not.

    For the next 7 weeks of this campaign, I will vigorously defend your right to speak your mind. I believe you have every right to criticize me and Donald J. Trump, even if you say terrible or untrue things about us. But when I ask you to “tone down the rhetoric” it’s not about being nice–our citizens have every right to be mean, even if I don’t like it–or empty platitudes.

    Instead, I’m asking all of us to reject censorship. Reject the idea that you can control what other people think and say. Embrace persuasion of your fellow citizens over silencing them–either through the powers of Big Tech or through moral blackmail.

    I think this will make our public debate much better. But there’s something else. Reject censorship and you reject political violence. Embrace censorship, and you will inevitably embrace violence on its behalf.

    The reason is simple. The logic of censorship leads directly to one place, for there is only one way to permanently silence a human being: put a bullet in his brain.

    whembly (477db6)

  411. @409 Did anyone catch the Holocaust reference? It’s so subtle, you might miss it.

    The fact that Trump has been using the Nazi playbook has always been obvious to anyone who knows a smidgen of history. It gets him a little extra from the Russian skinheads too.

    Make Adolf Great Again!

    nk (47c0eb)

  412. There’s a weird story coming out of Lebanon, of Israel hacking Hezbollah pagers and causing them to explode.

    BEIRUT, Sept 17 (Reuters) – More than 1,000 people, including Hezbollah fighters and medics, were wounded on Tuesday when the pagers they use to communicate exploded across Lebanon, security sources told Reuters.
    A Hezbollah official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the detonation of the pagers was the “biggest security breach” the group had been subjected to in nearly a year of war with Israel.

    Pagers? What were they, packed with M-80s?
    One of the “victims” is an Iranian Ambassador. Figures.
    Here’s some video.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  413. @409 Did anyone catch the Holocaust reference? It’s so subtle, you might miss it.

    Trump poisons the blood of comment threads.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  414. Whembly,

    thank you for that post. JD Vance is proving his mettle and was a solid pick. Shows he is capable of stepping up if called upon and has the pulse on what actually matters in America.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  415. Oregon DMV mistakenly registered more than 300 non-citizens to vote since 2021

    Oregon officials acknowledged Friday that the state mistakenly registered more than 300 non-citizens as voters since 2021 in what they described as a “data entry issue” that happened when people applied for driver’s licenses.

    An initial analysis by the Oregon Department of Transportation, which oversees the state’s Driver and Motor Vehicle Services, revealed that 306 non-citizens were registered to vote, said Kevin Glenn, a department spokesperson. Of those, two voted in elections since 2021.

    DMV Administrator Amy Joyce told The Oregonian/OregonLive on Friday that the office is checking for additional errors and will likely find more instances of registering non-citizens to vote.

    lloyd (376756)

  416. Paul and Klink spend so much time reporting whatever they read off of their Laura Loomer feeds, I decided it might be worth it to look her up.

    nk might find this interesting. Apparently actual Nazis hate her because she is Jewish, and they want her thrown in an oven.

    Wow!

    Trump really picks the strangest Nazi sympathizers, doesn’t he.

    BuDuh (b6117a)

  417. Tim Pool is back to parroting Russian propaganda

    Russia-funded Tim Pool suggests that the man who tried to assassinate Donald Trump should be investigated for being a Ukrainian agent.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  418. Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 9/17/2024 @ 12:09 am

    Shorter Klink: He had it coming.

    Kevin M (e2ddc4)

  419. So, Trump and Vance spend a week telling their feeble minded toe suckers

    This is exactly why we have MAGA. Arrogant fools who think everyone who disagrees with them must be stupid..

    Kevin M (e2ddc4)

  420. 421. Laura Loomer, BuDuh? Not Jared and Ivanka Kushner and their three kids, Trump’s grandkids? And when you have a moment, read a little about Jared’s grandfather.

    George Orwell called it Doublethink. The ability to harbor two or more mutually exclusive thoughts. And we have an example of Doubletalk from J. so that’s what the “D” stands for! Vance posted by whembly up the thread at 415.

    nk (47c0eb)

  421. I admire the president for calling for peace and calm.

    Messianic

    Former President Trump said President Biden and Vice President Harris’ “rhetoric” is what is causing him to be “shot at,” following the second assassination attempt against him since July, while telling Fox News Digital that the suspected gunman “acted” on “highly inflammatory language” of Democrats.
    ………
    “He believed the rhetoric of Biden and Harris, and he acted on it,” Trump said of the gunman in an interview with Fox News Digital. “Their rhetoric is causing me to be shot at, when I am the one who is going to save the country, and they are the ones that are destroying the country — both from the inside and out.”

    Trump pointed to Biden and Harris’ past comments casting Trump as a “threat to democracy,” while telling Americans they are “unity” leaders.

    “They are the opposite,” Trump said. “These are people that want to destroy our country.”
    ……….
    “They do it with a combination of rhetoric and lawsuits they wrap me up in,” Trump said. “These are the things that dangerous fools, like the shooter, listen to — that is the rhetoric they listen to, and the same with the first one.”
    ………
    Meanwhile, reflecting back on the debate against Harris last week, Trump slammed the media.

    “The media is made up of fools that will spew [Democrats’] garbage and spew their sick philosophies and will protect them at all costs, and they can’t believe they get away with it,” Trump said. “Democrats are totally protected by the media.”
    ……….
    “Harris was the one lying about Project 2025, she lied about abortion, she lied about everything,” Trump said. “She was correcting me.”
    ……….

    Related:

    “The Rhetoric, Lies, as exemplified by the false statements made by Comrade Kamala Harris during the rigged and highly partisan ABC Debate, and all of the ridiculous lawsuits specifically designed to inflict damage on Joe’s, then Kamala’s, Political Opponent, ME, has taken politics in our Country to a whole new level of Hatred, Abuse, and Distrust. Because of this Communist Left Rhetoric, the bullets are flying, and it will only get worse!” Trump wrote on Truth Social).

    The Secret Service has said that Routh did not fire any shots at the former President, nor was the former President in his line of sight.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  422. So no bullets were flying, Rip?

    If there were bullets flying, do you have any clue as to why?

    BuDuh (7f1511)

  423. Yeah, Donnie 2-inch has been dropping napalm every time he communicates.

    He is a threat to democracy, he is a piece of human filth, so vote. Getting not shot at doesn’t make him less of it.

    Did you want less Trump noise when someone tried to assassinate Biden, or Obama, or…

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  424. #415 (whembly)

    JD Vance is an intelligent guy, and he does the best job he can with the cards he dealt himself. But the thing he ignores is that part of the media’s free speech is choosing what they cover. Trump was not shot at in this assassination attempt, because of the work of the Secret Service. So, In our troubled, celebrity obsessed society, fokguess what, there not being much of a visual to the story, it doesn’t register.

    As you may recall, there was a school shooting in Winder GA the other day. JD’s reaction was that school shootings are a fact of life and we need more security at the schools to deal with it. the school shpoting because troubled people can make a big splash with one of these.

    It’s pretty much the same with shooting at Trump. Trump advertises himself as a big change agent. Well, you can make a big, big, splash by shooting at him. If you are looking for fame, here’s a way to get it. I would submit that JD’s reaction ought to be much the same as with the Winder shooting — it’s a fact of life in this society that folks may shoot at him, so he should get better security. (That should have happened after Pennsylvania, IMHO.).

    Vance is well schooled in history and recent history, so when he focuses on Hatians in Springfield (and does so inaccurately), he knows he has drawn the bad people in his movement to Springfield. Springfield has suffered a lot, because of his focus on it. Trump — well he got tackled by the secret service (that had to hurt) and had to stop his golf game and hit the Truth Social button and fundraise on the point that some mythical “they” were out to get him and missed again.

    JD makes the best possible debate club argument for his position — and like many such arguments, it is deeply unpleasent.

    Appalled (ad1293)

  425. If only there were a preview button…*sigh*

    Appalled (ad1293)

  426. Rip?

    BuDuh (7f1511)

  427. Springfield has been hurt a lot because Biden has dumped economic migrants there that don’t understand the language or culture, are bankrupting and overwhelming the services there and causing American citizens to be abandoned.

    But carry on Appalled.

    NJRob (2de549)

  428. https://www.zerohedge.com/political/cnn-worries-trump-assassination-attempts-are-helping-him-politically

    CNN’s moron just said the truth out loud. Like so many others she doesn’t care that someone is trying to murder their political opponent. She’s just upset it might help him politically.

    NJRob (2de549)

  429. Springfield has been hurt a lot because Biden has dumped economic migrants there…

    More Trump-sniffing tripe. The town of Springfield wanted immigrants to come there, per their own 2014 resolution. Wait, don’t tell me, the Springfield News-Sun is a “leftist source”!

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  430. Palm Beach Asks for Help After Spending $93,000 a Day to Protect Trump

    Palm Beach, one of the richest American enclaves, is seeking government assistance after the cost to protect its most famous resident — former President Donald Trump — soared to $93,000 a day.

    The local sheriff’s office was forced to ramp up spending on Trump’s security detail after an assassination attempt in Pennsylvania two months ago. Now a second attempt, this time at a golf course near Trump’s home in Florida, has renewed calls to boost it even further.

    “We’ve had to heighten security ever since the campaign started with the former president, who is our resident here,” said Palm Beach County Mayor Maria Sachs. “Yes, it’s disruptive and difficult, but it’s the price we pay to live in paradise.”

    Palm Beach County, with a budget of almost $8 billion and home to some of the world’s wealthiest families, has asked for federal help to foot the bill. Last week, Sachs and the county’s sheriff sent a letter to Congressional representatives asking for funding for the former president’s security, she said.

    The letter outlined the full scope of the spending on Trump, including $2.8 million of estimated overtime paid during a 30-day period for officers involved in his protection, as enhanced security led to around-the-clock street blockades. There was also an estimated $42,720 cost fielded by the local Fire Rescue department during motorcades and other times, as well as $3,600 a day spent by the town of Palm Beach itself. ……..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  431. Paul, you don’t give a darn about Americans so it’s no surprise that you’d react with so much hostility to Americans suffering due to tue government destroying their neighborhoods.

    It’s expected. Go back to your bird dogging ways.

    NJRob (2de549)

  432. @429

    #415 (whembly)

    JD Vance is an intelligent guy, and he does the best job he can with the cards he dealt himself. But the thing he ignores is that part of the media’s free speech is choosing what they cover.

    No he isn’t ignoring that.

    He’s making the point the asymmetrical aspect of the legacy media’s reporting.

    Trump was not shot at in this assassination attempt, because of the work of the Secret Service. So, In our troubled, celebrity obsessed society, fokguess what, there not being much of a visual to the story, it doesn’t register.

    Yeah no.

    Replace the name “Trump”, with “Harris” and you’ll get a much different reaction from these media.

    Do you dispute that?

    As you may recall, there was a school shooting in Winder GA the other day. JD’s reaction was that school shootings are a fact of life and we need more security at the schools to deal with it. the school shpoting because troubled people can make a big splash with one of these.

    He didn’t just say “it’s a fact of life”… he said he lament it, and he’s right. This is another example of legacy media choosing to frame his statements as negatively as possible.

    It’s pretty much the same with shooting at Trump. Trump advertises himself as a big change agent. Well, you can make a big, big, splash by shooting at him. If you are looking for fame, here’s a way to get it.

    I would submit that JD’s reaction ought to be much the same as with the Winder shooting — it’s a fact of life in this society that folks may shoot at him, so he should get better security. (That should have happened after Pennsylvania, IMHO.).

    Please tell me you’re not making a “her skirt was too short” argument here… because, it looks like that’s exactly what you’re doing.

    If so, that’s a pretty disgusting.

    Vance is well schooled in history and recent history, so when he focuses on Hatians in Springfield (and does so inaccurately), he knows he has drawn the bad people in his movement to Springfield. Springfield has suffered a lot, because of his focus on it. Trump — well he got tackled by the secret service (that had to hurt) and had to stop his golf game and hit the Truth Social button and fundraise on the point that some mythical “they” were out to get him and missed again.

    JD makes the best possible debate club argument for his position — and like many such arguments, it is deeply unpleasent.

    Appalled (ad1293) — 9/17/2024 @ 10:28 am

    Sure, ok appalled.

    whembly (477db6)

  433. @434

    More Trump-sniffing tripe. The town of Springfield wanted immigrants to come there, per their own 2014 resolution. Wait, don’t tell me, the Springfield News-Sun is a “leftist source”!

    Paul Montagu (062117) — 9/17/2024 @ 10:51 am

    Paul… there’s a vast difference between a community open to the idea of accepting refugees and what the Biden/Harris administration has done to this community.

    The idea that a town can absorb ~20k refugees of that size is dubious… at best.

    Furthermore, there are rumors that the mayor has seen financial windfall due to all his rental properties.

    Don’t discount the self-interest of leaderships.

    whembly (477db6)

  434. Replace the name “Trump”, with “Harris” and you’ll get a much different reaction from these media.

    In this hypothetical, does Harris also say all the BS Trump does? If so then yeah, but since that requires it to being in a different reality, say Earth 616 vs Earth Prime.

    So no.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  435. Paul, you don’t give a darn about Americans so it’s no surprise that you’d react with so much hostility to Americans suffering due to tue government destroying their neighborhoods.

    Rob. Asshole. You were fact-checked.
    If your argument had any merit, why did you resort to making sh-t up?

    Paul… there’s a vast difference between a community open to the idea of accepting refugees and what the Biden/Harris administration has done to this community.

    whembly, we can agree that the community had serious challenges in absorbing that many immigrants, and it’s a legitimate issue to discuss, but Rob sh@t all over that discussion with “Biden has dumped economic migrants there”, which implies that the federal government gathered them together and dropped ’em off and said ‘good luck’, which is both misleading and false. The irony here is that, instead of addressing the issue factually, Trump and his red-tie wearing Mini Me went on a racist lying spree.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  436. Here is a story from December 2022 about the growing Haitian population in Springfield, Ohio:

    (Incidently, the number of Haitians may be being overestimated, and there are others besides Haitians.)

    https://www.hubspringfield.com/features/hatian-population-springfield-120322.aspx.


    “Four years ago we didn’t have a Haitian population,” says Pamela Shay, director of federal programs for Springfield City School District.

    Now the district has about 200 students from Haitian families, many speaking Haitian Creole, French or Spanish, (!?) she says. In the past, the district has had two or three bilingual assistants who speak students’ native languages in order to help in classrooms and communicate with parents. Now the district has nine, she says.

    “I think we will see growth continue for a few years,” Shay says.

    That includes not only students from Haiti, but also those hailing from elsewhere around the world. She says the district is adding non-English speaking students weekly and has students who speak languages as varied as Japanese, German, Tagalog and Portuguese.

    About 10 percent of students enrolled in the district have a native or home language other than English, Shay says. Of those 750 students, about 550 of them need additional support to improve their English-language skills. And students who don’t require additional support may have parents or guardians who need translation services.

    While Haitian students can be found in every school building, Springfield High School has the most, Shay says. The elementary schools also have a large population, particularly on the city’s Southside, and in middle school most are enrolled at Hayward. At Clark Early Learning Center, which houses a preschool program, 25 students have a Haitian background of the almost 350 total students enrolled.

    Estimates about the number of Springfield and Clark County residents from Haiti vary. Shay says she has been told there are about 7,500 Haitians in the area, although she suspects the number is lower based on the number of students enrolled in the school district.

    How ad when they got there:

    Davah Germain says there were already several thousand people from Haiti when he arrived in Springfield almost two years ago, [= equal about the time Biden was inaugurated] and he suspects that number might have doubled in the meantime.

    “And people are still coming,” he says.

    Germain left Haiti due to political issues and moved to Miami, Fla., in 1985. The 63-year-old moved to Springfield at the urging of a friend. Word is spreading about the ease in which newcomers can find jobs, particularly in manufacturing.

    “They’re coming to stay,” he says. “They’re coming to make Springfield their home.”

    ….Springfield is attractive for new Haitian residents not only for the job opportunities here, but also because of the services available and the receptive and welcoming population, Shay says. It’s a small town with the resources of larger locations.

    “Word of mouth travels quickly through this population,” Shay says. “If one family member comes here and is successful, then others will follow.”

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  437. @439

    In this hypothetical, does Harris also say all the BS Trump does?

    Doesn’t need to be hypothetically, just lies and makes up crap just as bad now.

    whembly (477db6)

  438. https://abcnews.go.com/US/suspect-trump-attempted-assassination-ryan-wesley-routh/story?id=113720624

    Trump suspect told Iran ‘you are free to assassinate Trump’ in apparent self-published book

    …In the book, which ABC News has unearthed following Sunday’s incident, Routh directed an apology toward Iran, apparently for his previous support for Trump, who withdrew the U.S. in 2018 from the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA) nuclear deal with Iran. In the passage, Routh wrote that he “made a terrible mistake” in supporting Trump and said to Iran, “You are free to assassinate Trump as well as me for that error in judgment and the dismantling of the deal.”

    Details about Routh’s book come as court documents show Routh has a lengthy criminal record. The suspect was also a booster of a number of causes, including the war in Ukraine, an ABC News analysis of his apparent social media profiles shows…

    In addition to the passage addressed to Iran, the suspect wrote that he planned to continue his efforts to support Ukraine, implying that doing so would lead to a spectacular end to his life.

    Titled “Ukraine’s Unwinnable War: The Fatal Flaw of Democracy, World Abandonment and the Global Citizen-Taiwan, Afghanistan, North Korea and the End of Humanity,” Routh wrote in the book, “As you might have figured out by now that this story is also the conclusion of my life.”

    He continued: “It has been my goal to make every country, leader and civilian around the world mad at me. While most hide in the shadows and cover their face for every photo I will sacrifice myself if need be to push the war and the world forward.”

    In his writing, he added, “I will certainly have made every citizen an enemy of me, but the goal is for them to hate me as much as Putin and hopefully render an even greater resolve.”

    He went on to say he was “one insignificant man” and to “let the mafias and kill squads hunt me down and end my life.”

    Was he interested in a form of suicide by cop? I think ABC left out the beginning here. Does he mean: Hate me as much as they hate Putin?

    By the way, he doesn’t seem to realize that Iran is on the side of Russia in the war in Ukraine.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  439. So that’s how they did it…

    Based on early reporting, Israel infiltrated Hezbollah’s supply chain after the group shifted to pagers.

    They allegedly put a small amount of explosives (PETN) in each pager prior to it being shipped to Hezbollah. Then they used a signal to overheat and trigger the explosives today.

    Brilliant, especially because all the pager-owners are Hezbollah operatives, having to resort to pagers because their mobiles were compromised.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  440. Here’s more on his political opinions:

    A law enforcement source told ABC News that profiles on X, LinkedIn and Telegram are under investigation for a possible connection to Routh. Routh also appears to have operated a Facebook page, which has now been removed, and which listed the same phone number shared on his apparent X profile.

    When ABC News dialed that number, an answering machine message said: “This is Ryan with Camp Box Buildings in Hawaii, and also the National Volunteer Center sending soldiers to Ukraine as well as Taiwan.”

    Online, he appears to have been a prolific booster of several causes, chiefly of Ukraine’s, with numerous posts referring to an effort to recruit soldiers for that country. Specifically, many of Routh’s posts referred to an effort to send Afghan soldiers to Ukraine….

    ….Several X posts in March 2020 referred to support for then-Democratic presidential primary candidates Sen. Bernie Sanders and Rep. Tulsi Gabbard. Posts in January 2024 indicated support for former Republican presidential primary candidate Vivek Ramaswamy.

    Facebook posts from October and November 2023 promoted conspiracy theories about China, COVID-19 and biological warfare. In December, Routh posted to the platform questioning the historical claim of Jewish people to Israel.

    Routh’s apparent phone number was also listed on a website for a so-called “Taiwan Foreign Legion,” which calls on international volunteers to fight for Taiwan in the event of a possible conflict with China.

    The most recent post on Routh’s apparent Facebook page also refers to an effort to convince Taiwan to accept Afghan fighters.

    And he probably didn’t know any Afghan fighters. He moved to Hawaii years ago, or maybe moved back and forth. He has a “fiancée” in Hawaii. He voted in the North Carolina Democratic primary this year.

    He has an extensive criminal record, with guns and with writing bad checks.

    And in 2019:

    In 2019, the FBI received a tip that Routh was a felon in possession of a firearm, said Jeffrey Veltri, FBI special agent in charge of the Miami Office.

    “Following up on the tip, the alleged complainant was interviewed and did not verify, I repeat did not verify, providing the initial information. The FBI passed that information to local law enforcement in Honolulu,” Veltri said.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  441. @440

    Paul… there’s a vast difference between a community open to the idea of accepting refugees and what the Biden/Harris administration has done to this community.

    whembly, we can agree that the community had serious challenges in absorbing that many immigrants, and it’s a legitimate issue to discuss, but Rob sh@t all over that discussion with “Biden has dumped economic migrants there”, which implies that the federal government gathered them together and dropped ’em off and said ‘good luck’, which is both misleading and false. The irony here is that, instead of addressing the issue factually, Trump and his red-tie wearing Mini Me went on a racist lying spree.

    Paul Montagu (062117) — 9/17/2024 @ 11:56 am

    Here’s what is irritating about your reaction Paul and others like you.

    Both Trump and Vance has talked about those other issues stemming from the current administration’s open border policies. Extensively too… but the difference is what their critics chooses to highlight and ignoring all the issues in composite.

    Why do they do this?

    It’s called “controversializing a topic to such degree that the respondent has to spend energy to defend, leaving no time to discuss other important issues”.

    Democrats, legacy media and Trump-critics do NOT want to discuss immigration polices as it’s where both Trump and Vance is the strongest.

    The fact that you opined “Trump and his red-tie wearing Mini Me went on a racist lying spree”… shows confirmation-bias is in effect, where there’s no proof of a racial angle or even purposeful fabrication (this didn’t start with the Trump camp).

    whembly (477db6)

  442. whembly, if Trump and his underlings can’t be honest about Haitian immigrants, and keep on lying about it over and over, what else are they making sh-t up about. It undercuts the argument because they damaged their credibility. And let’s face it, Trump lies so much that he has no credibility on just about anything.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  443. Oh whembly…

    where there’s no proof of a racial angle or even purposeful fabrication (this didn’t start with the Trump camp).

    Why do we pick on Hatians?

    Why do we bring up unproven cat bbq?

    Why do we talk about Hatians bringing disease (specifically AIDS)?

    Why do we extract anecdotes from wierd places. Too good to check? Would any fact checker have alowwed JD to put something like this in his book?

    If JD has no racial animus, and did not wish to appeal to that element (which is pretty obvious), then why didn’t he pick some other town with some other immigrant community. It would have made more sense to have found a problem in a swing state. (I know of a couple of towns in Georgia he could have used, if this were a real concern.)

    Vance earns the contempt he is getting on this. He’s been in Trumpworld long enough to know what would happen to innocent people once he started this act.

    JD is a well-spoken young man. Bless his heart.

    Appalled (ad1293)

  444. “Red meat? I can haz red meat?”

    Trump has to give his marks their red meat. He cannot afford to moderate his histrionics even when it makes him look like an idiot because then the money spigot will dry up. And he has been doing it for so long that it has become a part of him and ne probably could not change even if he tried now.

    nk (c041bf)

  445. I hear the typical leftist excuses and the refusal to discuss the actual harms affecting Americans. Much easier to fight strawman and focus on your 2 minutes of hate mantra than discuss issues affecting Americans at large.

    Must be nice living in an ivory tower.

    NJRob (2de549)

  446. Good news, long in coming. We are now beginning to cure sufferers from sickle cell, a horrible disease.

    There had been a few experimental successful treatments before, but we are just beginning to treat patients on regular basis.

    Here’s hoping that young Kendric Cromer is cured completely, and soon enough to have a little bit of his childhood, which up to now has been so painful.

    His life with the disease has been punctuated by episodes of excruciating pain, requiring days in the hospital as doctors tried to control it. Sickle cell eroded his hip bones. It prevented him from riding a bike or playing soccer or even going outside when the temperature was below 55 degrees Fahrenheit because cold often brought on intense pain.

    His treatment is expected to be completed in about a month.

    According to the article, about 20,000 Americans have the severe form of the disease. But many more have the disease in West Africa.

    Jim Miller (cda79b)

  447. It’s distressing news and points out what is wrong with health care.

    It’s years later than it should be.

    It’s hung up on payments and bureaucracy. And too few people can be helped. What is this? Helping a paltry few dozen on the outside of maybe 20,000 people who could be helped and that’s considered a positive story??

    Why doesn’t some billionaire or foundation guarantee payment to the hospitals?

    And this treatment clearly needs improvement.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  448. Appalled (ad1293) — 9/17/2024 @ 2:19 pm

    then why didn’t he pick some other town with some other immigrant community.

    He didn’t pick it. He was targeted.

    Possibly by a Russian disinformation operation that had been penetrated by Democrats.

    It would have made more sense to have found a problem in a swing state. (I know of a couple of towns in Georgia he could have used, if this were a real concern.)

    He would only have taken calls from people purporting (or maybe really) coming from Ohio. And it was about eating cats

    Vance earns the contempt he is getting on this. He’s been in Trumpworld long enough to know what would happen to innocent people once he started this act.

    Not the bomb threats. They came from overseas. And he never accused any particular individuals of eating cats.

    JD is a well-spoken young man. Bless his heart

    The same age as Richard Nxon was when he was first nominated for Vice President in 1952. Well, half a year older.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  449. 383. asset (0d7754) — 9/16/2024 @ 9:00 pm

    I don’t think jd vance should be asking why yice president Harris hasn’t been assassinated yet. Its getting nasty.

    That was Elon Musk, not JD Vance.

    Musk deleted his tweet or whatever he calls it nw.it.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  450. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/16/opinion/springfield-immigration.html

    …I’ve written before about the problem of regions left behind by the 21st-century economy, a problem that is common to many wealthy nations. Decline in parts of the former East Germany has fed right-wing extremism in ways that resemble the rise of Trumpism in some depressed parts of our country.

    There are, however, some small cities that have managed to buck the trend; and in quite a few cases immigrants have been central to their revival. Springfield, with its community of (legal!) Haitian migrants is one example. Other examples include my hometown, Utica, N.Y., buoyed by refugees from Bosnia and Myanmar; Springdale, Ark., which has attracted people from various places including the Marshall Islands; and many others.

    These local immigration hot spots tend to involve particular ethnicities for the same reason many Norwegian immigrants once settled in Minnesota and many Eastern European Jews headed for New York’s Lower East Side: A few pioneers send word to people they know, and eventually communities emerge with the critical mass to help sustain some of their cultural traditions.

    Why do immigrants move to some small cities? Partly in response to housing costs that were, at least until recently, relatively low (as they tend to be in declining cities). In some instances, they also move to take advantage of jobs that some native-born Americans, for whatever reasons, are reluctant to do. In Springdale, the home of Tyson Foods, these are often jobs in poultry plants. In Springfield, which, The Times reported, has seen “a boom in manufacturing and warehouse jobs,” employers suggest that some young native-born adults shun “entry-level, rote work.”

    But are immigrant workers taking jobs away from native-born Americans? Donald Trump and JD Vance have been making that claim repeatedly. And it’s true that at the national level the native-born labor force has actually declined since 2019. But big picture, the explanation isn’t that immigrants are taking away jobs; it’s that baby boomers are reaching retirement age. Native-born Americans in their prime working years are more likely to be employed than before the pandemic, or for that matter at any point during the Trump administration.

    That’s the situation at the macro level. At the level of some of the communities that have attracted large numbers of immigrant workers, the picture is even clearer. By fostering overall growth in a city’s economy, immigrants often increase employment among the native-born. Why? Because they spend much of their earnings where they live and work, helping create local jobs; one 2015 study found that “each immigrant creates 1.2 local jobs for local workers, most of them going to native workers.”

    Can a rapid influx of immigrants present problems? Certainly. It can drive up housing costs, at least temporarily, although housing prices are a problem across America, and the rise in Springfield, which still has cheap housing by national standards, since the pandemic has been similar to that in the nation as a whole. And a sudden rise in the immigrant population can put pressure on local services, including schools and hospitals.

    But school and hospital systems can be expanded, especially when immigration is enhancing local government revenue. And it’s surely better to have Springfield’s infrastructure challenges than those of areas with falling population where hospital and school closings are creating health care and educational deserts.

    You can understand the concern in Springfield that followed the death of an 11-year-old boy whose school bus was hit by an immigrant driving without a license. But that doesn’t justify demonizing an entire immigrant community.

    Overall, the move of immigrants to some small cities has been very beneficial, one of the best hopes these cities have for economic resurgence. But that hope will disappear if immigrants are scared off by a climate of hate.

    I’ve already mentioned Germany, where some business leaders fear that the rise of right-wing extremism will lead to “economic catastrophe” in the nation’s east, which needs immigration to sustain its economy. Could the same thing happen in America? Yes.

    No account of this terrible episode in our politics is complete if it fails to mention that false assertions that we’re facing a migrant crime wave and bizarre claims about immigrants eating pets could all too easily end up deepening the economic woes in parts of America’s heartland.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  451. For J. the “D” is Dogs Are Not Dinner They’re Dates Vance:

    Florida has no closed season on coyotes, and no specific regulations regarding the choice of firearms or bows used to kill them; according to our statewide hunting regulations, you may use all legal rifles, shotguns, muzzleloaders, crossbows, bows and pistols. Two of the best rifle calibers, however, are .223 and .22-250, and for a real challenge, try taking them with a bow and arrows.
    ….
    Crock Pot Coyote
    Ingredients:
    2 lbs. coyote meat
    16 oz. apricot preserves
    1 cup BBQ sauce
    1 small onion, chopped
    Salt, pepper and garlic powder to taste
    Directions:
    Put it all in a crock pot and cook for 6 to 8 hours or until tender. Serve with rice.

    https://www.floridasportsman.com/editorial/florida-varmint-hunting/399813
    A recipe for bobcat backstrap can also be found at the link.

    nk (c041bf)

  452. But arguments like this are not coming from Democrats.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  453. Georgia woman dies because of ga. abortion law delayed treatment. (DU)

    asset (4c828c)

  454. The Georgia law, or lawyers who were probably members of Planned Parenthood?

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  455. For everyone’s viewing pleasure.

    Jim Miller (1caadf)

  456. @456 Sammy, that’s a great arguments for these migrants, but that has nothing to do with immigration law. The question is not whether they may benefit small communities but whether they have valid asylum claims.

    lloyd (37b22a)

  457. @lloyd@378 Nope, you’re just so invested in the current republican narrative that you can’t see that conservatism and the narrative aren’t the same thing so you think everyone not equally invested in the narrative is non-conservative.

    Nic (120c94)

  458. #452 Well, that’s what when you elect an incompetent (Obama), re-elect him, and then elect a malicious incompetent (the Loser). And we are still ahead of any other nation that I know about.

    Jim Miller (1caadf)

  459. David French, on the Hezbollah pager strike…

    From a law of war standpoint, Israel’s pager bombs represent one of the most precisely targeted strikes in the history of warfare. I can’t think of a single widespread strike on an armed force that’s embedded in a civilian population that’s been more precise. It’s remarkable.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  460. Florida has no closed season on coyotes

    The only New Mexico law is that coyote-killing contests are illegal. Using firearms to kill them inside some city limits may also be a problem, but that’s just a safety issue.

    Kevin M (4f2edb)

  461. Meanwhile, Hezbollah considers changing pager vendors.

    Kevin M (4f2edb)

  462. @463 Nic, a conservative would express at least one conservative sentiment in the time I’ve commented here. Probably two or three. What are the conservative sentiments you’ve expressed that I’ve missed?

    lloyd (1e4faa)

  463. I have seen only conservative sentiments from Nic: Love of America; respect for people; respect for the law; respect for our traditions and institutions; kindness and charity towards the unfortunate; duty and dedication to her employer; sincere religious belief; shunning of hate towards anyone; genuine support for people in the military ….

    Oh, wait, that’s not “conservative” in Trumpadoodleland. That’s everything that Trump is not.

    nk (75ce60)

  464. @469 nk thinks liberals don’t love America, don’t respect people, don’t respect the law, don’t offer kindness and charity to the unfortunate, yada yada. Are you going to take that lying down, Nic?

    lloyd (37b22a)

  465. Troll!

    nk (75ce60)

  466. Let’s make you and BuDuhboom-BuDuhbing disappear from my screen.

    nk (75ce60)

  467. @lurker@467/469

    I am personally a moderate, I have both conservative and liberal ideals but mostly in a moderate amount (which are which may depend on whether one defines conservative/liberal in the US political or classical philosophical fashion) and many people who are actual liberals often hold some conservative opinions and people who are actual conservatives often hold some liberal viewpoints (again this may depend on how one is defining conservative/liberal).

    Generally speaking, I would say that the values that nk described do tend to be more conservative (most especially in the sense of conservative as traditional), but they are conservative values that cross the spectrum to most liberals as well, just like freedom of speech has tended to be a more liberal value that crosses the spectrum to most conservatives as well.

    Nic (120c94)

  468. Nic always seemed classically liberal to me, a good trait, because there’s a lot of overlap with traditionally conservative.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  469. oops, 472 should’ve been @lloyd, sorry lurker!

    Nic (120c94)

  470. @paul@473 often the case for me, yes, classical liberalism just got scattered all over the political spectrum.

    Nic (120c94)

  471. @473 Nic, what would you specify as politically conservative ideals/viewpoints you have?

    lloyd (b422f7)

  472. @lloyd@476 I don’t think we should force insurance companies to pay for IVF, I support the need for law enforcement and prisons (though I think that the for profit prisons create an economic incentive to imprison people which seems concerning), I think that appropriate military spending is important for the longterm safety of our country. I think people who entered the country illegally as adults should be sent back.

    Nic (120c94)

  473. @478 Nic, thanks. I think virtually all liberals support the need for law enforcement and prisons, and appropriate military spending. In my opinion, the other two are conservative leaning viewpoints. For my part, I’m pro-choice up to the first trimester (and against Roe), against Patriot Act surveillance, and against Cheney-era enhanced interrogation techniques. I guess we’re both moderates!

    lloyd (b422f7)

  474. @lloyd@478 Sometimes it just depends on where you are physically standing in the moment. I can tell you that your position on abortion would’ve made you unacceptably liberal at my Catholic HS back in the 90s and my position on many things would make me unacceptably conservative in Marin Co. CA 😛

    Nic (120c94)

  475. Problem with pager attack: copy cats. Israel has done stuff like this before and it soon gets copied. Tactical success. Strategically meaningless. cell phones next?

    asset (4c828c)

  476. @Nic, no problem. The confusion is understandable. I’m one of Lloyd’s sock puppets.

    lurker (c23034)

  477. @lurker@481 *laughing*

    Nic (120c94)

  478. @481, I knew it!! Maybe we all are!?!?

    AJ_Liberty (b17819)

  479. Lefties Nic and AJ_Lurker, doing what lefties do.

    lloyd (376756)

  480. @447 whembly, if Trump and his underlings can’t be honest about Haitian immigrants, and keep on lying about it over and over, what else are they making sh-t up about. It undercuts the argument because they damaged their credibility. And let’s face it, Trump lies so much that he has no credibility on just about anything.

    Paul Montagu (062117) — 9/17/2024 @ 1:55 pm
    Wait.

    Are you saying JD Vance and Trump are making this up whole cloth?

    JD Vance is/was hearing this from his constituents. Or, that’s what he said. He could be BS’ing.

    But, it’s not like there hasn’t been actual reports of this before the debate:
    https://x.com/gragedustin/status/1836377980215480356?s=12&t=LbMzhpSB3yC2zvXzo7p_lA
    This one is an actual 911/police report… and there’s more like this. Before the debate.

    Now we can discuss whether or not this is bs…but, it likely wasn’t fabricated whole cloth when Trump/Vance started talking about it.

    Again, way before the debate, here’s a resident talking about possible pets abduction and the City manager (not mayor) says “I’ve heard about it”:
    https://x.com/jackbmontgomery/status/1836335419107021087?s=12&t=LbMzhpSB3yC2zvXzo7p_lA

    And here’s a thread of residences remarking on how detrimental the remigration policies are impacting their community:
    https://x.com/beyondreasdoubt/status/1835124881119236216?s=12&t=LbMzhpSB3yC2zvXzo7p_lA

    So, don’t know if this will convince you that Trump/Vance isn’t making sh*t up.

    We can have a discuss of whether it’s appropriate to highlight this w/o stronger substantiation. I’m willing to listen. But, to say that it’s all bs ignores the likelihood that:
    a) Trump/Vance heard it first somewhere else
    b) Springfield residents are being negatively impacted by Biden/Harris’ policies.

    whembly (477db6)

  481. @448 Appalled (ad1293) — 9/17/2024 @ 2:19 pm
    See my post above.

    whembly (477db6)

  482. @458

    Georgia woman dies because of ga. abortion law delayed treatment. (DU)

    asset (4c828c) — 9/17/2024 @ 3:54 pm

    This is a disgusting lie.

    The woman took chemical abortion and either some or all the “parts” of the fetus remained inside her.

    Nothing in GA’s law (or any other state) would’ve prevented doctors in treating her.

    What happened was she took this at home, had a rare reaction, got sepsis and couldn’t get treatment in time.

    Want to know why I know this? I’m well versed in the legalities of what providers MUST do to stabilize the patients, particularly when it’s the mom vs. the fetus.

    ANY doctor or healthcare institution (like their ER) withholding lifesaving treatment for the mother would face severe consequences if they “held off” treatment just to make a political point. The consequences would be massive legal/civil to not only the providers, but for the healthcare institutions. That would put the institution’s government revenue at jeopardy that if they would lose that, would destroy that institution ability to operate.

    So, when you see this story framed this way, its to distract you from how dangerous these chemical abortions can be.

    whembly (477db6)

  483. Another Harris lie that Paul likes to repeat:

    The senior political commentator argued CNN has let the Kamala Harris mischaracterize comments by Trump in a way that is ‘designed to radicalize’ his critics.

    Jennings made the comments during a panel the day after an apparent second assassination on the former Republican president, who has claimed rhetoric by Democrats is putting him in danger.

    The pundit said that Trump’s comments that ‘there will be a bloodbath’ in the economy if he loses the election are an example of how the left has misconstrued his words to stoke fear.

    Multiple Trump critics ignored the fact that Trump was talking about a potential economic bloodbath and have claimed he was instead warning of violence erupting on America’s streets.

    ‘It is said by every Democrat working for or around [Harris’] campaign every day on this network and every other one,’ Jennings said. ‘The bloodbath thing is stated every single day.’

    lloyd (26e7d0)

  484. Are you saying JD Vance and Trump are making this up whole cloth?

    I’m saying that Trump and Vance irresponsibly used debunked and false allegations in order to fearmonger about scary black illegals eating pets, in order to score political points. As they say, whembly, if you don’t know or believe that Trump is a con man, then you’re the mark.
    I read the fact-checks on the Sunday before the debate, and the claims are baseless. You should already know that Trump doesn’t fact-check and he doesn’t verify, and neither have his flying monkeys in this instance. They took a factless assertion and ran with it.

    Vance claimed that his statements were based on “firsthand accounts from constituents”, which is either false or he should’ve said “unverified firsthand accounts”, because the one claim he put forward (which is your first link and made public after the debate) is full of sh-t, per the WSJ

    A Vance spokesperson on Tuesday provided The Wall Street Journal with a police report in which a resident had claimed her pet might have been taken by Haitian neighbors. But when a reporter went to Anna Kilgore’s house Tuesday evening, she said her cat Miss Sassy, which went missing in late August, had actually returned a few days later—found safe in her own basement.

    Kilgore, wearing a Trump shirt and hat, said she apologized to her Haitian neighbors with the help of her daughter and a mobile-phone translation app.

    Your second link is flat-out hearsay.
    The point of origin for this lie came from a Facebook entry from a Springfield woman who later said she was “wrong” and had “misinterpreted” what a neighbor told her. More WSJ…

    The cat-eating rumors, started with a post by a Springfield woman on a private Facebook page, turned out to be third-hand and were subsequently disavowed by the original poster, according to NewsGuard, a company that tracks online misinformation.

    Nevertheless, this hearsay upon hearsay tale was picked by right-wing grifters like Ian Miles Cheong (who’s also a Putin stooge) and other right-wing edgelords until it made its way to the Right Wing Grifter-in-Chief.

    This whole raft of BS is not unlike Trump’s Big Lie, where he made the claim about a “stolen” election and then hordes of his devotees scrambled to backfill his lies, with nearly all of the backfilling being allegations backed up by rags for evidence. Same deal here. Even now, the Trump Cult is still not backing down.

    I’ll say this again, if Trump and his underlings can’t be honest about Haitian immigrants, and keep on lying about it over and over, what else are they making sh-t up about. It undercuts their policy argument because their credibility is wrecked. And let’s face it, Trump lies so much that he has no credibility on just about anything, including this brain damage.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  485. The MAGAs always leave out “that’ll be the least of it”, which muddies rather than clarifies the nature of this “bloodbath”, and leaves it open to interpretation, but I’m glad Trump followed up and said he was talking in economic terms.
    Whether I’ve repeated this allegation, lloyd, I’ll just say you’re again making sh-t up, as you’re the one who keeps bringing it up. You still sound really angry, so I recommend you grow up and fight the real enemy.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  486. This is a good summary, from people I respect:

    More than 100 Republican former national security figures, as well as members of Congress, endorsed Vice President Harris on Wednesday, citing former President Trump’s “demonstrated chaotic and unethical behavior.”
    . . .
    “Donald Trump’s susceptibility to flattery and manipulation by Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping, unusual affinity for other authoritarian leaders, contempt for the norms of decent, ethical and lawful behavior, and chaotic national security decision-making are dangerous qualities,” the letter states.

    “He is unfit to serve again as President, or indeed in any office of public trust.”

    Here’s the full letter, with the list of signatories.

    (I am particularly disturbed by by the Loser’s failure to continue the progress in controlling nuclear weapons made by a series of presidents. The largest reduction was made under George H. W. Bush, but it continued under Clinton, George W. Bush, and even that incompetent, Obama.

    I understand, of course, that — for some — this is not nearly important as whether or not an immigrant ate a cat in Ohio, but I hope they will at least tolerate those of us who differ in our beliefs about what is important.)

    Jim Miller (43dd4b)

  487. Jim, probably a lot of overlap in the folks who lent their names to that letter and those who wrote the Russian misinformation letter regarding Hunter’s laptop. Probably just as truthful too.

    lloyd (5a8420)

  488. I am particularly disturbed by by the Loser’s failure to continue the progress in controlling nuclear weapons made by a series of presidents.

    In one sense he continued the failure of that same line of presidents regarding proliferation. North Korea should have been made an example of in the 1990s and it could have still been done under W’s watch when they reneged on the deal a second time.

    Kevin M (dde857)

  489. Jim, probably a lot of overlap in the folks who lent their names to that letter

    Find 10. You won’t as these are all Republicans and the Russian thing was mostly Democrats. A lot of Reagan people here and you won’t get anywhere with me dissing Reagan’s foreign policy people who won the Cold War.

    Kevin M (dde857)

  490. #485

    The truth on what happened with respect to the Springfield cat eating rumors is here:

    https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/miss-sassy-and-other-tales/

    ts;dr — Vance ddn’t make up the story out of whole cloth. The Trump campaign checked on the story, learned it was false, and ran with it anyway.

    The WSJ expose appears to be paywalled.

    For the record, I just thought Vance thought the story was too good to check, and acted in reckless disregard of the truth. Nope. He lied.

    The word contemptible describes that conduct. The obscene word for jerk describes JD Vance.

    Appalled (721968)

  491. I agree with Lloyd. Trump was clearly using bloodbath as a metaphor, and not as a threat of violence if he loses or a threat to his supporters that their policital opponents will kill them if they talk power.

    Harris’s reference to it in the debate was, in context, and lie. She took his words of out of context and asserted a meaning different then the one he clearly intended. The moderators should have called her out on that and the explanation that reflects on them the best is that they’re just bad at their jobs.

    Paul, your argument that “that’ll be the least of it” makes it reasonable to assert there was some threat there isn’t persuasive and looks like motivated reasoning.

    There are plenty of actual threats from Trump that don’t need to be misinterpreted to be alarming. His statement that if you vote for him this time you’ll never need to vote again is one such example.

    Time123 (20a43e)

  492. I am particularly disturbed by by the Loser’s failure to continue the progress in controlling nuclear weapons made by a series of presidents. The largest reduction was made under George H. W. Bush, but it continued under Clinton, George W. Bush, and even that incompetent, Obama.
    ………
    Jim Miller (43dd4b) — 9/18/2024 @ 9:24 am

    Trump rightly withdrew from the INF Treaty when it was discovered that the Russians were blatantly cheating. The Russians had long violated it by developing a new long range cruise missile, beginning before the Trump Administration even took office. The INF Treaty prohibits ground-launched ballistic and cruise missiles, both nuclear and non-nuclear, with ranges between 500 and 5,500 kilometers, i.e., 300 to 3,400 miles, which encompasses all of Western Europe. The new Russian missile (SSC-8, NATO code name Screwdriver) has a range that violates these limits. There is no point with the US complying with its INF obligations if the other side wouldn’t. In fact, NATO supported the suspension of the INF treaty in 2019, and Russia never became compliant with its obligations under the treaty. So there was no point with US continued compliance with the treaty.

    Further, China was never part of the INF treaty (or any arms control treaty), so its nuclear weapons program continues unabated, with an estimated 500+ warheads. China has no interest in negotiating limits on their arsenal until it matches the US and Russian arsenals (approx. 5,000 warheads.)

    The Biden Administration has recognized the need to develop new nuclear weapons, including upgrading the B61 gravity bomb and continuing to develop the Minuteman III ICBM replacement, the Sentinel.

    Given the fact of Russia’s own withdrawal from the INF Treaty, China’s desire to expand their own nuclear forces, and the ongoing war in Ukraine, there is little reason for nuclear arms reduction talks with parties that don’t want to sincerely negotiate.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  493. ts;dr — Vance ddn’t make up the story out of whole cloth. The Trump campaign checked on the story, learned it was false, and ran with it anyway.

    The WSJ expose appears to be paywalled.

    For the record, I just thought Vance thought the story was too good to check, and acted in reckless disregard of the truth. Nope. He lied.

    The word contemptible describes that conduct. The obscene word for jerk describes JD Vance.

    Appalled (721968) — 9/18/2024 @ 9:40 am

    Here is the WSJ story.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  494. @496

    There are plenty of actual threats from Trump that don’t need to be misinterpreted to be alarming. His statement that if you vote for him this time you’ll never need to vote again is one such example.

    Time123 (20a43e) — 9/18/2024 @ 10:06 am

    You’re misinterpreting that too.

    In context, if you watched that speech, he was saying “vote me and I’ll fix thing so that you don’t ever have to vote for your interest again”.

    He wasn’t saying that this would be the last US presidential election, ever.

    whembly (477db6)

  495. He wasn’t saying that this would be the last US presidential election, ever.

    Most of us will outlive him, for example.

    Kevin M (6ad7dc)

  496. (Trump) wasn’t saying that this would be the last US presidential election, ever.

    Based on some of the “Kamala Harris is a Marxist” rhetoric (including from Trump in the debate), I’m expecting that she will be establishing a dictatorship of the proletariat if she is elected, so may be Trump was forecasting that future.

    😉

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  497. RIP singer/songwriter J.D. Souther (78):

    ………
    Souther, a Songwriters Hall of Fame inductee, was responsible for some of the Eagles’ biggest hits, including the songs “Best of My Love”, “Victim of Love”, “Heartache Tonight”, and “New Kid in Town”. “How Long.” With Ronstadt, he wrote and duetted on the classic songs “Prisoner in Disguise,” “Sometimes You Can’t Win” and “Hearts Against the Wind.” He also enjoyed a successful solo career and penned the hit songs “You’re Only Lonely” and “Her Town Too,” the latter a duet with James Taylor.
    ……….
    The friendship with (roommate Glenn Frey) would see Souther become part of a circle of friends and creative collaborators that included Don Henley and Linda Ronstadt, and he suggested as a possible member of the Eagles. Although he never did join the band, Souther worked closely with the Eagles and co-wrote some of their most famous songs. From the 26 times platinum-selling Eagles album Hotel California, Souther co-wrote the songs “New Kid in Town” and “Victim of Love.” On the 1974 album On the Border, Souther co-wrote “You Never Cry Like a Lover,” “Best of My Love” and “James Dean.” And on the 1979 album The Long Run, Souther co-wrote three songs, including the No.1 single “Heartache Tonight.”

    In the early 1970s, Souther was dating the singer Linda Ronstadt, and he co-wrote a number of songs for her and as well co-producing her 1973 album Don’t Cry Now. For Ronstadt’s followup album, Heart Like a Wheel, Souther wrote the song “Faithless Love.” He duetted with Ronstadt many times, including the songs “Prisoner in Disguise,” “Sometimes You Can’t Win” and “Hearts Against the Wind,” the latter featured in the 1980 film Urban Cowboy.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  498. New Yorker articles:

    https://link.newyorker.com/view/5bea0ae624c17c6adf15d819lw8bn.c6ml/6239572a` I don’t know if all the links here are or are not available to everyone

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  499. For what it’s worth: (if there was a political conspiracy to ensnare Vance and Trump, there could also later be a false (and/or incomplete) explanation of how it got started)

    https://www.newser.com/story/356454/2-women-who-started-springfield-rumors-speak-out.html

    2 Women Who Started Springfield Rumors Speak Out

    ‘I’m not sure I’m the most credible source,’ one says; another: ‘I hate myself for making that post’

    …. “I was not raised with hate,” 35-year-old Springfield resident Erika Lee tells the New York Times. “My whole family is biracial. I never wanted to cause problems for anyone.”

    Neighbor No. 1: Lee says that a “game of telephone” began after she heard that a neighbor’s daughter’s cat had vanished, with whispers that a Haitian local may have taken the pet. She says she posted the rumor on Facebook, then afterward decided to ask the neighbor for “proof.”

    Neighbor No. 2: That neighbor, Kimberly Newton, now tells misinformation watchdog NewsGuard, “I’m not sure I’m the most credible source because I don’t actually know the person who lost the cat.” Newton says the cat owner wasn’t her daughter but “an acquaintance of a friend.” Per NewsGuard, Newton “heard about the supposed incident from that friend, who, in turn, learned about it from ‘a source that she had.'” Newton now admits: “I don’t have any proof.”

    I just don’t believe this was all just a game of telephone.

    At any rate, Lee, who tells NewsGuard she’s a Democrat who supports Donald Trump, now wishes she’d never posted an unverified rumor on social media—a post she has since deleted. “It just exploded into something I didn’t mean to happen,” she tells NBC News. She adds, to the Times: “I live next to Haitians—I have no issues with them. … I hate myself for making that post.”

    David French traced it to a different source than Erika Lee:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/12/opinion/maga-debate-cats-dogs-haiti-trump.html

    . It’s hard to trace the origin of a rumor, but it blew up with a Sept. 6 post from a prominent right-wing account called End Wokeness, which claimed that “Springfield is a small town in Ohio. 4 years ago, they had 60k residents. Under Harris and Biden, 20,000 Haitian immigrants were shipped to the town. Now ducks and pets are disappearing.”

    The New York Times links David French’s statement to this:

    https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/1832134984557113706

    I don’t have the date of Erika Lee’s Facebook post -whether it was before or after the endwokeness “tweet” And all that Wikipedia says is “early September” Nobody has the date!

    Meanwhile, Ann Coulter, interviewed on the Mark Simone radio show on WOR 710 AM in New York this morning, seemed to be claiming that the eating cats story was true and that there was an August 28 911 call about that.

    I find in the Wikipedia talk page about this article in what looks like a back and forth with someone who objected to the article calling it a hoax and I don’t know who said it:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Springfield,_Ohio,_cat-eating_hoax

    ..There’s also unverified claims about abuse happening to ducks that were made in a widely circulated Aug. 27th Springfield City Commission Meeting. Then there was an Aug 26th phone call to police claiming that Haitians were stealing geese. There are other claims from residents as well, but these are some specific ones that I’m aware of being mentioned in the sources within this article.

    He also said the Facebook post didn’t just mention a cat or cats. It alleged

    abuse happening to several different animals, including cats, dogs, ducks, and geese (the situation with the cat was gone into in the greatest gruesome detail

    And aparently it didn’t mention Haitians at that point.

    I think it isa hoax, but cannot prove it.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  500. This is how Trump-Vance double down on their lie, just declare that the legal immigrants are illegal because they don’t like the law, despite their being given TPS. Who knows what they’ll do for an encore on the pet-eating thing.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  501. Oh, that’s a common lie in Republican circles, Anybody that comes without an immigrant visa is called illegal.

    And they don’t seem to think there are any legal immigrants because they seem to think the U.S. population is divided into two groups; citizens and illegal immigrants.’

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  502. Ann Coulter also clamed that the mayor of Springfield is a Democrat (so in other words we should not believe him) and I’ve heard this claim elsewhere, but sources I trust more say he is a Republican.

    Anyone else hear the claim that he is a Democrat?

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  503. Appalled (721968) — 9/18/2024 @ 9:40 am

    For the record, I just thought Vance thought the story was too good to check, and acted in reckless disregard of the truth. Nope. He lied.

    It wasn’t reckless disregard for the truth. Vance checked it out, But he felt he couldn’t differ from what the rest of the campaign was saying,

    That doesn’t mean he did nothing different. He maybe decided to limit the size of the hole he was digging for himself.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  504. In context, if you watched that speech, he was saying “vote me and I’ll fix thing so that you don’t ever have to vote for your interest again”.

    Oooh, I’m with whembly on this one. I thought that, as well as the bloodbath quotes, were very ungenerously interpreted by many. Although, yes, that is in fact what he said, he’s an old man who has never spoken clearly, and so while it’s not a good look that he says stuff like that, what he means can be divined from context and the assumption that he must have meant not-that.

    On the other hand things like “I want a total and complete shutdown of the border” or “We need to ban Muslims from entering our country” or “There will be a 100% tariff on China” or “We should take the guns and then worry about process later” or “We will have the biggest deportation the country has ever seen” or “We will withdraw from Nato if other countries don’t spend more” etc are all him saying exactly what he means and his policies are absurd or illegal or disastrous. (Note, I didn’t look up any of those quotes these are all just from my imperfect memory).

    Nate (be5ee2)

  505. Does Trump Want to Win?

    Every presidential campaign wrestles with how to use its three biggest resources—money, issues and time. The last is the most precious. Campaigns can always raise more money or generate more issues. But they can never create more time.

    This is why Kamala Harris’s campaign wisely isn’t responding to many of Donald Trump’s attacks. The Republican, unfortunately, has been wasting precious time going after her on inconsequential matters. The Biden-Harris record on inflation, the border and world events remains relatively unmentioned. He’s letting her skate.

    ……….Mr. Trump complained she hadn’t sat down for media interviews. ……..(S)wing voters didn’t seem to care that she wasn’t sitting for (interviews) this summer. Her polling certainly didn’t suffer.

    Mr. Trump also spent days complaining Ms. Harris hadn’t gone through any primaries, making her selection undemocratic. He called it “the first ever ‘Coup’ in America” and whined it was “not fair.” Team Harris ignored him.

    Mr. Trump also complained on and on that Ms. Harris not only hadn’t laid out her agenda; she didn’t even have a policy page on her website. ……. Again, swing voters don’t appear to be upset about this issue. Many were busy getting their kids back to school.

    Mr. Trump chewed up more valuable time whining that Ms. Harris had changed her positions……… Undecided voters seem as if they couldn’t care less. They believe all politicians change opinions when advantageous, and Ms. Harris has moved toward their stances.

    The Trump-Vance ticket has also wasted vital days with its self-owns. The campaign has yet to produce a single Ohio pet owner mourning Fluffy or Fido being barbecued by Haitian migrants. Mr. Trump also devoted Sunday to expressing hatred for Taylor Swift. Her many fans were doubtless angered and energized.

    Ms. Harris has been content to let Mr. Trump fritter away the past eight weeks on these ridiculous attacks. Every day he focused on them—and on calling her a “Marxist, communist fascist” without concrete evidence—he neglected topics where he could inflict damage. ………

    It’s no surprise, then, that Ms. Harris has seen a significant improvement in her favorable numbers since reaching the top of the ticket. ………

    With less than seven weeks until Election Day—and voters in some states already receiving mail-in ballots—Mr. Trump better stop wasting time.
    ……….
    (If Trump doesn’t drill down on real issues in a sustained way), and instead continues failing to spell out his second term agenda, swing voters may swing away from him.

    Few presidential candidates have had a better environment to run in than Mr. Trump. Voters are in a foul mood. The incumbent administration is historically unpopular and there’s a tremendous yearning for change. All these points give Mr. Trump a huge advantage and Ms. Harris a large disadvantage. But his lack of discipline is epic, and his rallies increasingly sound like therapy sessions.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  506. Sammy,

    Checking it out would be calling city officials —not just relying on hearsay from some rando. The campaign did that due diligence—and ignored the results.

    Appalled (c5276e)

  507. House republicans wants to prevent as many democrats from voting as possible under guise of preventing illegal aliens from voting which they don’t, saying if even only one illegal alien votes the whole system is invalid. If you disagree list the number of illegal aliens prosecuted for voting. the numbers will be tiny. In red states like texas they run stings to try and get illegal aliens voting. Republicans should be prosecuted for preventing citizens from voting.

    asset (1674ce)

  508. Asset,

    have you apologized for lying about the circumstances regarding the woman who died from sepsis yet?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  509. I expect Israel is going to pre-empt against Hezbollah in the next few days, having totally disrupted their command and control network.

    Kevin M (645c2b)

  510. 511. Appalled (c5276e) — 9/18/2024 @ 4:27 pm

    Checking it out would be calling city officials —not just relying on hearsay from some rando. The campaign did that due diligence—and ignored the results.

    The campaign didn’t do that. Vance did that. That’s what I read in that Wall Street Journal article:

    https://www.wsj.com/us-news/springfield-ohio-pet-eating-claims-haitian-migrants-04598d48?st=peRet3&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

    SPRINGFIELD, Ohio—City Manager Bryan Heck fielded an unusual question at City Hall on the morning of Sept. 9, from a staff member of Republican vice presidential nominee JD Vance. The staffer called to ask if there was any truth to bizarre rumors about Haitian immigrants and pets in Springfield.

    “He asked point-blank, ‘Are the rumors true of pets being taken and eaten?’” recalled Heck. “I told him no. There was no verifiable evidence or reports to show this was true. I told them these claims were baseless.”

    By then, Vance had already posted about the rumors to his 1.9 million followers on X. Yet he kept the post up, and repeated an even more insistent version of the claim the next morning.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  511. You may have noticed that many right wig talk radio shows are essentially the same show – they each more or less repeat the same material. So if one thing is unclear, it’ll be explained somewhere else. So I got a further elaboration of that August 28 911 call claim from Ann Coulter.

    Tonight Ben Ferguson, substituting for Mark Levin said they had obtained an August 28 “police report” that corroborated the ct eating.

    (This is not to say that it is real, but that it is a hoax and not a game of telephone and not started by the woman who apologized for her Facebook post.)

    https://x.com/Riley_Gaines_/status/1836394001991438464 (retweet of an endwokeness tweet)

    So now I have some search terms.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  512. The campaign didn’t do that. Vance did that. That’s what I read in that Wall Street Journal article.

    Sammy, this is the part of the WSJ piece you missed, because what Vance submitted was unverified

    A Vance spokesperson on Tuesday provided The Wall Street Journal with a police report in which a resident had claimed her pet might have been taken by Haitian neighbors. But when a reporter went to Anna Kilgore’s house Tuesday evening, she said her cat Miss Sassy, which went missing in late August, had actually returned a few days later—found safe in her own basement.

    Kilgore, wearing a Trump shirt and hat, said she apologized to her Haitian neighbors with the help of her daughter and a mobile-phone translation app.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  513. @513 abortion ban caused delayed care in now two deaths. PBS, axios, propublica and msnbc news. I could list more. Yet georgia republican elected officials have not been arrested for negligent homicide or accessary to murder.

    asset (9a77c4)

  514. Good points by Nick about rhetoric and its consequences:

    https://thedispatch.com/newsletter/boilingfrogs/hot-blooded/

    When assessing whether inflammatory rhetoric is defensible or not, one should start with the question I asked above: Is it true?

    ********

    Trump’s defining political characteristic, the one that sets the tone for the institutional culture of his movement, is that he disdains norms. That being so, why shouldn’t an unusually lowbrow demagogue who works tirelessly to encourage blind loyalty among his supporters bear more blame for incitement than an uncharismatic mainstream liberal like Biden or Harris?

    If you run your political party like a party, you’ll be treated like a politician when one of your supporters goes off. If you run it like a cult, you’ll be treated like a cult leader.

    ********

    Trump’s problem is that he’s indifferent to the truth or falsity of his demagoguery. “The election was rigged” wasn’t true. “Haitian immigrants are eating pets” isn’t true. Many people tried to correct him on both points and were ignored or derided. All politicians lie but those are big, brazen, I-don’t-care-if-the-country-burns-so-long-as-I-get-my-way lies. When you tell a lie like that and a cop at the Capitol ends up getting brained with a flag pole by a nut in a MAGA hat because of it, you’re guilty of something worse than the usual negligence toward the truth that politicians display.

    And it’s not wrong for the press to recognize that greater culpability by holding you more responsible for the behavior of those whom you’ve incited.

    ********

    How are we supposed to scold Democrats for irresponsibly accusing Trump of threatening democracy after he actually did threaten democracy? They have the receipts.

    Alas, I anticipate some commenters here maintaining that Trump did not threaten democracy. I guess it would amount to a crisis of faith to acknowledge what Trump did.

    norcal (856a25)

  515. By the way, non-subscribers to The Dispatch are entitled to one free article per month.

    norcal (856a25)

  516. Alas, I anticipate some commenters here maintaining that Trump did not threaten democracy.

    He’s a despot wannabe who holds democracy in the same derisive contempt he has for our fallen heroes. He’s unfit to take the White House tour, much less sit behind the Resolute desk.

    lurker (c23034)

  517. The guys supporting the Communist bragging about protecting democracy. The doublethink is impressive.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  518. @518

    @513 abortion ban caused delayed care in now two deaths. PBS, axios, propublica and msnbc news. I could list more. Yet georgia republican elected officials have not been arrested for negligent homicide or accessary to murder.

    asset (9a77c4) — 9/18/2024 @ 10:00 pm

    Tell you what asset.

    Explain exactly how the care was delayed. Do not throw links. I want you to describe it in your own words.

    whembly (477db6)

  519. This isn’t communist, it’s just dumb anti-fossil fuel liberalism, especially when our oil and gas production are at all-time highs.

    One of President Biden’s worst decisions is his moratorium on new liquefied natural gas (LNG) export projects, and the damage is growing to U.S. interests. It’s also becoming a political liability for Democrats, and no fewer than a dozen House Democrats are urging the Administration to expedite projects to help Ukraine and investment in the U.S.

    “Any delays to providing additional supplies of LNG to Ukraine and our Eastern European allies could jeopardize European energy security and market stability in the long-term,” the Democrats wrote to the White House last week. The public interest requires considering how “LNG exports promote geopolitical stability and serve our national security interests.”
    […]
    Recall that the Energy Department in January paused permits for new LNG export projects in order supposedly to review whether they are in the “public interest.” DOE approval is required for LNG exports to countries with which the U.S. doesn’t have free trade agreements, including Europe and Japan.

    Biden officials hoped the pause would excite young progressive voters amid a TikTok lobbying campaign on the issue. But it has alienated allies counting on U.S. gas so they can reduce their dependence on Russia, which still accounts for about 15% of Europe’s gas supply.

    Ukraine struck a major deal in June to buy LNG from Venture Global’s Plaquemines and CP2 projects on the Gulf Coast to support “energy security needs for Ukraine and the broader Eastern European region.” But CP2 and other projects have been snagged by the Administration’s moratorium, which no doubt delights Vladimir Putin.

    “Russia’s increasingly aggressive actions towards Ukrainian infrastructure, including electricity and gas storage facilities, highlight the urgent need to assist Ukraine in recovering and rebuilding and for Ukraine to diversify and secure its energy supply,” write the House Democrats, most of whom represent oil and gas producing areas.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  520. norcal (856a25) — 9/18/2024 @ 11:01 pm

    Biden never said “put Trump in a bullseye” and two assassination attempts on his opponent aren’t receipts, because there’s no crisis of faith.

    lloyd (8bf0f8)

  521. I find this hysterical:

    imagine being best friends with iran https://t.co/L3NMeDecm9

    — LB (@beyondreasdoubt) September 18, 2024

    Democrats truly becomes what they accuses Republicans all the time.

    What’s unknown is if the Biden/Harris campaign reviewed the materials.

    whembly (477db6)

  522. When does the two year Harris Iranian Collusion investigation begin?

    lloyd (8bf0f8)

  523. The Harris team likely received the Iranian stuff, thought it was SPAM, and deleted it.

    Appalled (c5276e)

  524. @528

    The Harris team likely received the Iranian stuff, thought it was SPAM, and deleted it.

    Appalled (c5276e) — 9/19/2024 @ 6:53 am

    It’s more than enough to open up an FBI investigation and have it open near indefinately…and when Harris takes office, for an agent to so a surprise “meeting” w/o lawyers to catch their target with inconsistent statements.

    You know, things the FBI should be doing to every administration.

    whembly (477db6)

  525. Here’s the rest of the story

    Iranian hackers sought to interest President Joe Biden’s campaign in information stolen from rival Donald Trump’s campaign, sending unsolicited emails to people associated with the then-Democratic candidate in an effort to interfere in the 2024 election, the FBI and other US agencies have said.

    The FBI confirmed on 12 August that it was investigating a complaint from Donald Trump’s presidential campaign that Iran had hacked and distributed a trove of sensitive campaign documents. On 19 August intelligence officials confirmed that Iran was behind the hack.

    There’s no indication that any of the recipients in Biden’s campaign team responded, officials said on Wednesday, and several media organisations approached over the summer with leaked stolen information have also said they did not respond.

    Kamala Harris’ presidential campaign called the emails from Iran “unwelcome and unacceptable malicious activity” that were received by only a few people who regarded them as spam or phishing attempts.

    The emails were received before the hack of the Trump campaign was publicly acknowledged, and there’s no evidence the recipients of the emails knew their origin.

    The announcement is the latest US government effort to call out what officials say is Iran’s brazen, ongoing work to interfere in the election, including a hack-and-leak campaign that the FBI and other federal agencies linked last month to Tehran.

    The key word is “unsolicited”, and noteworthy is that Iranian operatives sent the hacked materials to “several media organisations”. Naturally, Trump is screaming about it on his money-losing social media platform…

    THE FBI CAUGHT IRAN SPYING ON MY CAMPAIGN, AND GIVING ALL OF THE INFORMATION TO THE KAMALA HARRIS CAMPAIGN. THEREFORE SHE AND HER CAMPAIGN WERE ILLEGALLY SPYING ON ME. TO BE KNOWN AS THE IRAN, IRAN, IRAN CASE! WILL KAMALA RESIGN IN DISGRACE FROM POLITICS? WILL THE COMMUNIST LEFT PICK A NEW CANDIDATE TO REPLACE HER?

    Like his stories about Miss Sassy, his accusations have no basis in fact, but when did that ever stop this mentally deranged f–k.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  526. “The Harris team likely received the Iranian stuff, thought it was SPAM, and deleted it.”

    Appalled forgot the sarc tag

    lloyd (376756)

  527. Shorter Cattagio: He had it coming.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  528. The guys supporting the Communist bragging about protecting democracy.

    Harris is many things, but calling her a Communist is wrong. She is not Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin or any of those mass murderers. Also, Trump is not a Nazi. Frankly, Godwin applies to “Communist” as much as it does to “Nazi.” There are few actual Communists in US politics. “Socialist” and “Communist” are not synonyms.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  529. When does the two year Harris Iranian Collusion investigation begin?

    lloyd (8bf0f8) — 9/19/2024 @ 6:44 am

    Sounds like the FBI is already investigating. If she (or Joe!) fires the head of the FBI and then goes on NBC to tell the nation that they did it specifically to stop this investigation a special counsel should be appointed.

    No word yet on if anyone related to her and on her campaign has met with Iranian agents to discus ending sanctions similar to what happened with Russia and the Trump campaign.

    No word yet on if anyone from her campaign has gotten drunk and bragged about coordinating with them. As happened with the Trump campaign.

    I don’t recall her devoting time in one of her speaches to ask Iran to do more hacking, as Trump did. Did I miss that?

    I’m not aware of her having long attempted to create a major investment in Iran, and Trump wanted to do with Russia. Did I miss that?

    But way to ignore the many important differences while feeding your persecution complex.

    Time123 (bf9676)

  530. The Harris team likely received the Iranian stuff, thought it was SPAM, and deleted it

    I’m sure they deleted it. Now at least. Probably from their backups, too.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  531. @529, There’s already an FBI investigation open. If she appoints someone as NSA whose connections and statements about Iran are as weird as Flynn’s were for Russia the FBI should absolutely investigate.

    And if that person lies to the VP, and Flynn lied to Pence she should fire them like Trump fired Flynn.

    Time123 (bf9676)

  532. @535,if they didn’t if they used it or planned to use it they should be criticized. If they broke the law they should be prosecuted.

    Time123 (bf9676)

  533. This is way better than 2016, when the FBI and intelligence community kept their investigations on election interference under wraps.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  534. There’s a lot of missing “sarc” tags today.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  535. So…Vance didn’t just lie and fearmonger about scary black illegals barbecuing Milo and Tabby in bucolic Springfield, he also asserted that they’re responsible for a “massive rise in communicable diseases”. Au contraire.

    As for the rise in tuberculosis and HIV, the Vance spokesman did not respond to questions about how this could be attributed to Haitians. Clark County health records show the numbers for TB are low, so small changes look like big percentage jumps. There were three cases in 2021, two in 2022, six in 2023 and a preliminary count of four in the first half of 2024. As for HIV, there were 12 cases in 2021, 15 in 2022, 29 in 2023 and a preliminary count of 26 in the first half of 2024. But overall, cases of sexually transmitted diseases have fallen, records show, with syphilis in an especially sharp decline — from 126 cases in 2022 to 45 in 2023. A preliminary count for 2024 recorded 21 syphilis cases.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  536. I am increasingly disappointed by Vance and not a little bewildered. It takes some effort to be nuttier than Trump.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  537. Kevin M (a9545f) — 9/19/2024 @ 7:28 am

    She’s on video talking about using the government to barge into your home to go after you for not “securing your guns.”

    She is a commie.

    NJRob (c4b04c)

  538. She’s on video talking about using the government to barge into your home to go after you for not “securing your guns.”

    She is a commie.

    NJRob (c4b04c) — 9/19/2024 @ 8:56 am

    Question for you, Rob.

    Trump is on video saying he likes to take the guns early, and then “Take the guns first, go through due process second,”.

    Is he a commie?

    Nate (be5ee2)

  539. I wonder how those who believe that Harris is a Marxist and will usher in a dictatorship of the proletariat if she is elected will deal with it.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  540. @642:

    And again you show a complete loss of perspective. Wanting to grab all the guns doesn’t make you a Commie, it makes you a gun-grabber.

    Trump wants to round up millions of people and put them in concentration camps. Does that make him a Nazi or Commie?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  541. Trump wants to round up millions of people and put them in concentration camps. Does that make him a Nazi or Commie?

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 9/19/2024 @ 9:15 am

    Only until they are deported.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  542. Only until they are deported.

    That will take time, and some of them will be American citizens.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  543. Communism: “a political theory derived from Karl Marx, advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs.”

    Socialism: “a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.”
    –Oxford Dictionary

    Which is why this Kamunist business is so silly and stupid and hyperbolic and fearmongery, but hyperbole and fearmongering seems to be a common character defect among the MAGAs. It’s like a rite of passage.

    Kamala is probably closer to Bernie than Joe ideologically, and Bernie’s idea of heaven on earth is Denmark (not Venezuela) which he misnames it “democratic socialism” because, while democratic, it’s a free nation with a free economy with private ownership, albeit laboring under a heavy social safety net.
    If we should hang an accurate label on her, maybe liberal Democrat or tax-and-spend liberal or progressive, which is better than the overwrought distortions I’m seeing here. Does accuracy matter?

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  544. @534, devastating refutation. All the sock puppets are hiding…

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  545. Nate,

    if he had a track record doing so, yes. Now what’s the difference between the 2.

    NJRob (c4b04c)

  546. There was no refutation. The Harris-Biden administration has given Iran billions which have been used to fund terrorism. Of course Iran is supporting the Harris regime

    NJRob (c4b04c)

  547. @533

    The guys supporting the Communist bragging about protecting democracy.

    Harris is many things, but calling her a Communist is wrong. She is not Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin or any of those mass murderers. Also, Trump is not a Nazi. Frankly, Godwin applies to “Communist” as much as it does to “Nazi.” There are few actual Communists in US politics. “Socialist” and “Communist” are not synonyms.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 9/19/2024 @ 7:28 am

    IF you want a more neutral definition, then it’s “statist”.

    But, the fact that Harris and other like-minded far-left progressive views their politics like a religion… communist is a better fit.

    Because they KNOW they’re right. They BELIEVE they’re right. Anyone that bucks the orthodoxy is the “enemy”.

    Does that remind of you of something?

    whembly (477db6)

  548. IF you want a more neutral definition, then it’s “statist”.

    Both Maga and the left are statist. The only difference is in what they want the state to do. That’s why Desantis was so popular. He’s good at using the power to the state to further his culture war goals.

    There is no real consistency for limited government.

    Time123 (ea5770)

  549. @551, Did you miss that the topic wasn’t “which president is likely to be preferable to Iran” it was “Why isn’t the Harris campaign being investigated for this?”

    Those are very different things.

    Time123 (ea5770)

  550. @548 are you you got the definitions correct? I thought a communist was “Any Moby that doesn’t loudly support anything Trump does”?

    Time123 (ea5770)

  551. This is an answer to a question

    “Good. Very good. Thank you. So we have to start always with energy, always,” he said.

    “I don’t want to be boring about it, but there’s no bigger subject. It covers everything. If you make donuts, if you make cars, whatever you make, energy is a big deal, and we are going to get that. It’s my ambition to get your energy bill, within 12 months, down 50 per cent. If I can do that, I’ve done a hell of a job. Not 15. Fifty.

    “Interest rates are going to follow, and actually they’re going to follow for another reason. The economy is now not good. And interest rates, you’ll see they’ll do the rate cut and all the political stuff tomorrow, I think. And, you know, will he do a half a point? Will he do a quarter of a point?

    “But the reason is because the economy is not good, otherwise you wouldn’t be able to do it. But we’re going to get interest rates down and we have got to work with our farmers. Our farmers are being decimated right now. They’re being absolutely, absolutely decimated. And, you know, one of the reasons is we allow a lot of farm product into our country. And we’re going to have to be a little bit like other countries. We’re not going to allow so much come. We’re going to let our farmers go to work.

    “And I don’t know if you remember. I love the farmers because, you know, I had many meetings as president. I had this gorgeous room with this beautiful table that seats about 35 people. And I was with the farmers.

    “I, usually, everybody wants something. They all want subsidy. But I was with the farmers and I think you might have been there, actually, Sarah. I said, ‘Look fellas, we’re going to get you such a beautiful subsidy.’ Meaning I’m going to do things. And one of the people raises and says, ‘Sir, honestly. We don’t want a subsidy.’

    “This is the first time this ever happened to me! Everyone wants, they want money. They want windmills. We want money with these windmills. Ay ay ay.

    “Anyway, but you know what was amazing? He said, almost tears in his eyes, ‘We don’t, we’re getting decimated. We don’t want a subsidy. We just want a, you know, a fair, level playing field. And I said, I said, ‘Nobody’s ever said that.’

    “And I have many industries and many groups of people from different things. You know, they do all different things. It’s probably the most dramatic I’ve ever seen. He didn’t want anything. All he wanted was to be able to compete fairly.

    “And the reason, the problem we have, is other countries. They treat us very badly, in that way also. They really are. And, you know, sometimes the worst countries are our so-called allies. I say ‘so-called’, because in many ways they are not allies at all. They take advantage of us. They really take advantage.

    “But we’re going to do, with the farmers. We’re going to do what we have to do with the farmers. We’re going to put our farmers. And do you remember the expression, when I was negotiating with China? China said, ‘Well, we’re not going to deal with this.’ Because they never had anybody negotiate. They did whatever they want. They just took us like, you know, for a bunch of suckers.

    “But I told the farmers, ‘It’s going to be, they’re very good negotiators. You’re going to suffer for six months and then they’re going to fold.’ And that’s exactly what happened. They folded and they agreed to buy $50 billion.

    “You know, you might have heard the story. I said, ‘How much?’ I went to the secretary of agriculture. I said, ‘How much did they buy?’ He said 15. I thought he said 50. So when they’re ready to make a deal at 15 billion, I said, ‘No, I want 50.’ That’s what they’ve been buying. They said, ‘No, it’s 15.’ I said, ‘You said 50?’ And he said, ‘No, we said 15.’ I said, ‘That’s OK, ask for 50 anyway.’ And we got it. We got it.

    “And they buy a lot of our products.

    “So we’re going to, just a great, interest rates, energy and common sense. A lot of it’s common sense, everything. You know, I like to say we’re the party of common sense.

    “We want to have a strong border. How about that? We want a strong, you know all of a sudden, they’ve changed. They didn’t want any border. They said walls don’t work. Two things work. What are the two things? Wheels and walls.

    “You know, if I do, there’s a gorgeous computer down here. In about two weeks, it’s going to be obsolete. A friend of mine is in that business. He hates it. He said, ‘We come up with a new model and it’s the greatest.’ About three-and-a-half weeks later, the damn thing is totally obsolete. The only thing that never gets obsolete is a wall and a wheel.

    “And the wall is what we’re talking about now. And you know, we built hundreds of miles of wall. We then added more than I ever said I was going to do. And then we had that bad election result, that disgusting result. And they never put it up.

    “You know what they did with it? They sold it for five cents, and it was expensive wall, it was exactly what the Border Patrol wanted, with the anti-climb plate on top, which I always hated because I didn’t like the look of it.

    “But, you know, they demonstrated. We had mountain climbers, and a couple of drug climbers too. These guys are amazing. They can they put 100 pounds of drugs on their back and they go up the wall like it’s nothing. But they couldn’t get over the plate. So all of a sudden they said, ‘OK, I’ll put the plate on.’ I didn’t like it. I liked it better without the plate, but it didn’t work quite as well.

    “So this is what we did. We had it. We had the best. We had a thing called Remain in Mexico. You don’t have to be a genius to know Remain in Mexico is a very good thing. And you think that was easy to get?

    “I think Tijuana, Mexico was probably the fastest growing city in the history of the world. OK? They had hundreds of thousands. They couldn’t come in. When they got in, they let everybody pour into our country, the border.

    “Just to finish with the border. When I talk about energy, to me it’s exciting. But to a lot of people it’s not. But it gets exciting, because we’ll bring down your costs, all that.

    “But what people want to hear, and I believe, when I got elected, I believe it was the border that was the biggest thing. And I fixed it, and I did a great job. And I wanted to mention it in 2020. And my people would say, ‘Sir, nobody cares about the border.’ They don’t care because I had it fixed. Now I got to fix it again. I believe the border is of the greatest interest.

    “When you look at, when you look at, when you look at what’s happening in Aurora. OK? Take a look at Aurora. When you look at what’s happening in Ohio, the great state of Ohio, I love it. I’m way the hell up. I wish I was up 18 points in your state. But we are up. We are up. I think when people hear what I have to say, I don’t know how you can possibly lose it.

    “You. I’ll tell you this, and I’ll say this for Michigan. If I don’t win, you will have no auto industry, within two to three years it’ll all be gone. And I know you got a little bit of an increase. It doesn’t mean, that’s the small stuff, because it’s just a temporary thing, because you will not have any manufacturing plants.

    “China is going to take over all of your business, because of the electric car, and because they have the material. We don’t. What we have is a thing called the gasoline. We have gasoline. We have so much gasoline, we don’t know what to do. They don’t have gasoline. So why are we making a product that they dominate? They’re going to dominate.

    “You will not have a car industry left, not even a little bit of a car industry. So, and you’re going to have electric cars, but you’re going to have 7 per cent. You’re going to have 9 per cent, whatever it may be. And maybe some day, the technology becomes so good that you can do more.

    “I mean, you know, it’s fine. But right now, the battery technology isn’t there for long term. I always say, ‘I love the electric car, but they don’t go far enough, and they don’t do well.’

    “You know, in Iowa, it was 20 degrees below zero, when we had our great success in Iowa, we had a great, and there were cars all over the place. I said, ‘What’s wrong with those cars?’ They don’t work well in cold and they don’t work very well in heat.

    “But Elon’s going to figure it out, because he’s great. He gave me the greatest endorsement. He figures everything out, and right now, he’s got, he’s got other things. He’s got to get a rocket up to get those two people out of there.

    “I said, ‘Elon, let’s get going.’ No, they’re relying on Elon to get the two people. Who would like to be up there right now saying, ‘We’re coming back home maybe in February?’ So that was not so good. But Elon will solve the problem.

    “He’s a great, great guy. And he loves this state and he loves your whole, everything you’re doing here. And he’s done a fantastic job. He really has. And if he didn’t endorse me, I would not be saying that. OK? I have a problem. I wouldn’t be saying.”

    Seriously, what question would demand this answer?

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  552. @548 “Which is why this Kamunist business is so silly and stupid and hyperbolic and fearmongery, but hyperbole and fearmongering seems to be a common character defect among the MAGAs. It’s like a rite of passage.”

    From the guy who’s called Trump a Fascist umpteen times.

    lloyd (dc9293)

  553. This is way better than 2016, when the FBI and intelligence community kept their investigations on election interference under wraps.
    Paul Montagu (062117) — 9/19/2024 @ 7:47 am

    Is this the investigation on election interference that included “F*** Trump”, “We’ll stop him” and something about an “insurance policy”?

    As long as we’re pointing out differences, do you think that kind of investigation is going on as we speak, under wraps, and we just have to wait for the dossier to drop? Gimme some odds on that. In the meantime, as the investigation motto goes, “Viva le Resistance.”

    lloyd (dc9293)

  554. Hi Lloyd, what evidence do you have that would support a responsible suspension of the the involvement of the Harris campaign with the Iranian hack?

    Time123 (45b245)

  555. Is this the investigation on election interference that included “F*** Trump”, “We’ll stop him” and something about an “insurance policy”?

    Still angry about that, too, I see. It remains that an IG investigated the investigators and concluded there was no evidence of documentary or testamentary bias.

    As for Trump, to be intellectually consistent and using the same Oxford source, fascism…

    1. an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
    2. (in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.

    I would say that Trump’s coup attempt is an authoritarian anti-democratic act; he proposed “termination” of the Constitution, which is also anti-democratic and pro-authoritarian act and; same with his “Dictator For A Day” statements. And there’s his pathological admiration for authoritarians; we’ve all seen gush about Xi and Kim. As for the other characteristics…

    Nationalistic: Check. America First.
    Right-wing: Check, because he’s certainly not conservative.
    Extreme: Mass-deporting 20 million is extreme, his malignant narcissism is an extreme condition. His lying is extreme.
    Intolerant: His racist smear of Haitian immigrants sounds awfully intolerant to me.

    As for your confusing and contradictory second question, I don’t know WTF you’re talking about, but this is true: The DOJ has announced that were actively investigating election interference by foreign powers, and the indictment of Tenet Media and the disclosure of Iranian malfeasance is testament. Are there ongoing investigations that we don’t know about? Probably, but I don’t know what I don’t know, and there could well be national security reasons for not disclosing before indictments are handed down, but you don’t know what you don’t know.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  556. This isn’t good.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  557. Huh?

    Former President Donald Trump appeared on a taped segment of Fox News’ “Gutfeld!” Wednesday, complaining once again that the ABC News debate moderators bothered to fact-check him while falsely claiming that the debate audience “went crazy” for his performance. Host Greg Gutfeld chose not to fact-check Trump over the fact that there was no debate audience whatsoever, per the rules set by ABC News and agreed to by both campaigns.

    “They didn’t correct her once,” Trump complained, referring to Vice President Kamala Harris. “And they corrected me, everything I said, practically. I think nine times or 11 times. And the audience was absolutely — they went crazy.”
    ……….
    On the day of the taping, Trump was in New York for a rally in which he suggested that he would win the state which he lost by more than 20 points in 2016 and 2020, unless Haitian migrants kill him first.
    #########

    Related:

    ………..
    “How about in Springfield, Ohio?” the ex-president told the crowd (at a rally in Uniondale, New York. “They had 32,000 [people]. This is a little beautiful town. No crime. No problem. Thirty-two thousand illegal immigrants come into the town.”
    ………..
    “So, they almost doubled their population in a period of a few weeks,” he continued. “Can you believe it? And you know what? They’ve got to get much tougher. I’m gonna go there in the next two weeks. I’m going to Springfield and I’m going to Aurora. You may never see me again! But that’s ok. Gotta do what I got to do. Whatever happened to Trump? Well, he never got out of Springfield.”
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  558. Speaking of authoritarians, Trump likes ’em, and their trappings, too…

    “Kim Jong Un speaks and his people stand up at attention. I want my people to do the same.”

    He still doesn’t understand that if an audience member doesn’t “stand up at attention” to Kim, the poor sap could get Warmbiered.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  559. “So, they almost doubled their population in a period of a few weeks,” he continued. “Can you believe it? And you know what? They’ve got to get much tougher. I’m gonna go there in the next two weeks. I’m going to Springfield and I’m going to Aurora. You may never see me again! But that’s ok. Gotta do what I got to do. Whatever happened to Trump? Well, he never got out of Springfield.”

    So heroic. Not.
    So drama queen Assigned Male At Birth. Yes.

    As for J. the “D” is for Double Wide Vance, he should not get his hopes up. The premise of The Manchurian Candidate was an alt.Earth fantasy that existed only in Richard Condon’s mind.

    But Angela Lansbury sure was a hottie.

    nk (929f0a)

  560. But Angela Lansbury sure was a hottie.

    nk (929f0a) — 9/19/2024 @ 1:55 pm

    I know her from Murder She Wrote, and she was anything but hot.

    YMMV.

    norcal (856a25)

  561. There are more things in Heaven and Earth ….

    nk (929f0a)

  562. nk (929f0a) — 9/19/2024 @ 2:12 pm

    Not my cup of tea, counselor. Keeping it British, I’ll go with Rosamund Pike.

    norcal (856a25)

  563. Donald Trump

    So, they almost doubled their population in a period of a few weeks,” he continued. “Can you believe it?

    No.

    It’s not true.

    But Donald Trump was never good with numbers.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  564. But Donald Trump was never good with numbers.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 9/19/2024 @ 2:18 pm

    You spelled “honesty” wrong.

    norcal (856a25)

  565. Mossad-IDF has definitely thought this through…

    IDF: “Over the last two hours, directed by IDF intelligence, the IAF struck hundreds of rocket launcher barrels that were ready to be used immediately to fire toward Israeli territory. Since this afternoon, the IAF has struck approximately 100 launchers and additional terrorist infrastructure sites, consisting of approximately 1000 barrels that were ready to be used in the immediate future to fire toward Israeli territory.”

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  566. Springfield in 2012, before the immigrants came:

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/welcome-to-springfield-ohio-the-unhappiest-city-in-the-us/article4612263

    The road south from Toledo is a veritable museum of American industry. You pass the rich farm fields and local processing plants, the stately century-old homes in Findlay and Urbana, evidence of the wealth that flowed from the industries that first built automobiles and other vehicles. But many of the homes are badly in need of some paint, and the towns wanting for life.

    None more so than Springfield, 70 kilometres west of the capital, Columbus. It is here that you see evidence of the full flowering of U.S. manufacturing – and its near complete collapse that today has left behind a lost generation and a bitter population that is disproportionately aged.

    Springfield had held such promise.

    As recently as 1983, Newsweek Magazine named Springfield one of America’s “dream cities.” There was little crime, a university, racial harmony (the city was the first major U.S. community to elect a black mayor), a vibrant downtown, still active industries and a central location on the region’s road and rail networks.

    Last year, however, the Gallup polling organization described Springfield as the “unhappiest city” in the United States. Gone were many of the factories, and, like so many U.S. cities in the rust belt, the downtown was deserted. Unemployment rose and, with it, crime. An entire generation of young people left Springfield to find work.

    “The city had so much going for it,” said Clarence Payne, 71. “That’s what made people so unhappy when things went bad.”

    In the 1920s, there were 10 companies here building their own cars. International Harvester, the farm-machine giant, started here. (It’s now called Navistar.)

    Except for Navistar, all that remains of these independent plants are a number of their vehicles restored and on display in an exceptionally good heritage museum, created in the large building that was once the city’s farmers’ market….

    …..Another volunteer is Dick Groeber, 68, a retired meteorologist. It was his late father, a commissioner of planning, he says, who approved the construction of the mall outside town.

    “He thought it would be a positive contribution to the city,” Mr. Groeber said, shaking his head.

    “He never realized what effect it would have.”

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  567. IF you want a more neutral definition, then it’s “statist”.

    But Trump is also a statist.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  568. This isn’t good.
    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/19/2024 @ 1:07 pm

    It’s a claim that Robinson frequented a black porn site and made comments there under a handle. Without more information, I think it is suspect as it would almost certainly be something the porn site released (oppo research generally doesn’t dive that deep) and they could have manufactured nearly anything.

    OTOH, Robinson isn’t exactly Mr straight arrow.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  569. @573

    IF you want a more neutral definition, then it’s “statist”.

    But Trump is also a statist.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 9/19/2024 @ 2:27 pm

    No in the manner of progress-left.

    Statism is effectively a belief that the government can solve anything.

    whembly (477db6)

  570. “Kim Jong Un speaks and his people stand up at attention. I want my people to do the same.”

    Good luck with that.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  571. Statism is effectively a belief that the government can solve anything.

    No, statism is using the power of the state to deny individuals agency. Trump is just as willing to do that as Biden. If you want to argue that Harris is more willing, fine. But both would regulate people’s lives.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  572. Ms. Lansbury isn’t my type, but Della Street? Yowza.

    Here’s Trump’s latest bit of bad policy, and it can only damage our economy, because the credit card industry could be substantially damaged.

    BREAKING: Trump announces that as president, he will immediately implement a temporary 10% cap on credit card interest rates

    “We can’t let them make it 25% and 30%.”

    It would be a little hypocritical to criticize Kamala for her anti-gouging price controls while Trump is proposing government-enforced price controls on a financial company’s earnings.

    After this issue and his tariff nonsense, it’s hard to believe that Trump graduated from an Ivy League business school, and I have those same sentiments toward AOC and her econ major.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  573. You can make political contributions with a credit card. His tweakers must not have all maxed theirs out yet.

    nk (2a4f46)

  574. As I recall, Mr. Robinson can still withdraw before midnight tonite.

    And the hits keep coming. Per Politico, an email address belonging to North Carolina Lt. Gov. Mark Robinson was registered on Ashley Madison, a website designed for married people seeking affairs.

    Party of Family Values at it again.

    He’s going to lose the governorship, he’s already down by 6 (RCP average). If he hangs on, the political stigma could cost Trump the state as well.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  575. 517/

    Sammy, this is the part of the WSJ piece you missed,

    Yes, I missed it yesterday because I didn’t read further and I didn’t see it until I read it in the paper. There are a number of things in that article that are significant.

    Vance only provided it on Tuesday, September 17 and Anna Kilgore also said this Tuesday that she had found her cat a few days later.

    Tis story is still circulating and being toed ass truth/ Today “Bo Snerdly” (James Goulden) who was Rush Limbaugh’s call screener played a 911 call about something like that on his radio show “The Rush Hour” which is on ABC radio 770 am between 4 pm and 6 pm weekdays Eastern time.

    It’ll be up here later: (Sept 19 show)

    https://wabcradio.com/podcast/bo-snerdley-james-golden/

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  576. The WSJ article linked the cate eating meme (or at least anti-Haitian meme) to neo-Nazis:

    https://www.wsj.com/us-news/springfield-ohio-pet-eating-claims-haitian-migrants-04598d48?st=peRet3&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

    This article, by the way, also contains a bar graph of the population of Springfield, Ohio, evidently based on the U.S. Census, running from 1950 through 2020 plus a 2023 estimate.

    …. Over the summer, outside neo-Nazi groups—which specialize in exploiting local controversy to foment outrage about migrants—had seized on a local controversy and fanned the narrative of pet-eating Haitians.

    Not too clear who first mentioned people eating pets.

    ….On Aug. 10, a group wearing ski masks and carrying swastika flags and rifles marched in Springfield. The ADL identified them as Blood Tribe, which it describes as a growing neo-Nazi group claiming to have chapters across the U.S. and Canada.

    On Aug. 27, during the routine public-comment portion of the Springfield City Commission meeting, a man identifying himself as a Blood Tribe member said: “I’ve come to bring a word of warning. Stop what you’re doing before it’s too late. Crime and savagery will only increase with every Haitian you bring in.”

    Rue, the mayor, interrupted him, saying “You sound threatening to me,” and asking police to peacefully remove him.

    I just don’t believbe that the cat eating meme was the result of an accident – it was a hoax.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  577. BREAKING: Trump announces that as president, he will immediately implement a temporary 10% cap on credit card interest rates

    Is he even pretending to explain how this is legally within the president’s powers?

    Yesterday he also came out for restoring the SALT tax deduction – popular on Long Island. This is addition to his repeal or exemption from tax of tips, overtime and Social Security benefits.

    He proposes a tax increase in tariffs – 10% or maybe 20% on all foreign imports and 100% (i.e. to double the price) on imports from China.
    Meanwhile the Biden Administration is proposing to severely restrict the de minimis exemption from tariffs,

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/14/business/economy/tariffs-amazon-walmart-china-shein.html

    The plans have been driven by the rocketing popularity of Chinese e-commerce platforms like Shein and Temu, which have won over consumers with their low prices. These platforms ship inexpensive products directly to consumers’ doorsteps, allowing them to bypass American tariffs on Chinese goods, along with the hefty costs associated with brick-and-mortar stores, warehousing and distribution networks.

    Rising competition from Shein, Temu and other Chinese companies is pushing many major U.S. retailers to consider shifting to a similar model to qualify for an obscure, century-old U.S. trade law, according to several people familiar with the plans. The law, known as de minimis, allows importers to bypass U.S. taxes and tariffs on goods as long as shipments do not exceed $800 in value.

    But that trend toward changing business models may have been disrupted on Friday, when the Biden administration abruptly moved to close off de minimis eligibility for many Chinese imports, including most clothing items. In an announcement Friday morning, the Biden administration said it would clamp down on the number of packages that come into the country duty-free using de minimis shipping, particularly from China.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  578. Well we don’t have anyone referring to Malcolm the Tenth, Kim Jong the Second (the previous ruler of North Korea) and President Eleven of China.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  579. Hw did David Muir know to check out the cat eating story the day of the debate?

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  580. Recently, I have been thinking that — to some extent — Kamala Harris can be described as a “shape shifter”. She chose to be “black”, although she is, at most, 25 percent black. To make that plausible, she attended a historically black university, and joined a black sorority there. She is a member of a famous black Baptist church.

    She chose to be a prosecutor, in the modern US one of the best stepping stones for the politically ambitious.

    She adopted, however temporarily, some of the sillier ideas of California Democrats, when that was to her advantage, and seems to be shedding many of them now that they aren’t.

    She used identity politics to rise in Democratic politics, as so many Democratic (and some Republican) officials do.

    What I don’t see in her career is the kind of ideological consistency that the late Barry Goldwater had, and that Vermont’s senior senator, Bernie Sanders, has.

    And so I think she will, if elected, try to be re-elected by pursuing popular policies, not some ideological agenda. (Bill Clinton did something similar when he promised welfare reform.)

    If you want to understand her, think “ambitious”, not “Marxist”.

    Jim Miller (bcc9bc)

  581. The WSJ in that long article, almost called the mayor of Springfield a RINO. (Republican in Name Only)

    “We have told those at the national level that they are speaking these things that are untrue,” added Springfield Mayor Rob Rue, a registered Republican. But he said claims have been “repeated and doubled down on.

    What is meaning behind this? Is he elected in a nonpartisan election?

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  582. Coupla things Sammy, and you should re-read the WSJ article, because they reported that NewsGuard found the point of origin story to be from Erika Lee’s Facebook entry.
    It’s easy to see how David Muir picked up on this because it was in the news for several days and fact-checked the Saturday-Sunday before the debate. I saw several debunkings on the X.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  583. Speaking of authoritarians, Trump likes ’em, and their trappings, too…

    “Kim Jong Un speaks and his people stand up at attention. I want my people to do the same.”

    He still doesn’t understand that if an audience member doesn’t “stand up at attention” to Kim, the poor sap could get Warmbiered.

    Paul Montagu (062117) — 9/19/2024 @ 1:34 pm

    My comment (@524) linking that video of Trump slobbering his hero-worship on Kim Jong Un is what moved Rob to call Kamala Harris “the Communist.” Irony is dead.

    lurker (c23034)

  584. @550, that’s a fair point, Rob.

    Nate (cfb326)

  585. Hw did David Muir know to check out the cat eating story the day of the debate?

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 9/19/2024 @ 3:29 pm

    Because it had been in the news prior to the debate?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  586. Maybe:

    Trump has never ben honest with numbers.

    Especially with numbers.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  587. I think Muir was tipped off or encouraged to check it out by the Democrats.

    ABC made an extra effort to check it out.

    Now, of course, the Democrats could not be sure that Trump would bring it up,

    But Kamala Harris was smiling (and acting surprised)

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  588. Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 9/19/2024 @ 5:27 pm

    As usual, completely lacking any evidence.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  589. BREAKING: Trump announces that as president, he will immediately implement a temporary 10% cap on credit card interest rates

    Is he even pretending to explain how this is legally within the president’s powers?

    I’m waiting for him to come out for the restoration of the tax deductibility of credit card interest.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  590. Paul Montagu (062117) — 9/19/2024 @ 3:59 pm

    because they reported that NewsGuard found the point of origin story to be from Erika Lee’s Facebook entry.

    So I am supposed to trust NewsGuard of which I know nothing about? I have to see what else they say.

    The WSJ said it wasw a private Facebook post.

    How’d it get out? And she reportedly wrote about more than cats.

    It’s easy to see how David Muir picked up on this because it was in the news for several days

    and fact-checked the Saturday-Sunday before the debate. But nobody connected with Trump repeated it before Monday – the day before the debate.(when did I mention it here, asking if JD Vance was serious?)

    I think ABC could have been lobbied by the Harris campaign to check it out.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  591. Kamala is a hard leftist. She has a voting record to the left of Bernie. But, it’s comical seeing folks here taking umbrage at the suggestion she’s Communist, because if she actually were Communist they’d still vote for her.

    lloyd (dc9293)

  592. So I am supposed to trust NewsGuard of which I know nothing about? I have to see what else they say.

    The WSJ trusted them.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  593. lloyd (dc9293) — 9/19/2024 @ 6:02 pm

    Admirable goalpost shift. At least you do finally, if tacitly admit Harris isn’t a communist. Feel free to pass the word to Rob, though, fair warning, it may get you called a commie lover.

    lurker (c23034)

  594. “Admirable goalpost shift. At least you do finally, if tacitly admit Harris isn’t a communist.”

    AJ_Lurker, admirable accusation without evidence. I have never once here called Kamala a Communist. In fact, I specifically wrote here weeks ago that she wasn’t. When I have a ton of time to waste, maybe I’ll look it up for you but until then you can find it yourself.

    lloyd (60c5b4)

  595. So I am supposed to trust NewsGuard of which I know nothing about? I have to see what else they say.

    See

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 9/10/2024 @ 4:21 pm

    Of the close to 3 million news articles and years worth of videos…before the debate.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  596. “I told that to Mark, I said, ‘I think you’re better than Martin Luther King, I think you are Martin Luther King times two,’ and he looked at me, and I wasn’t sure, was he angry because that’s a terrible thing to say, or was he complimented,” Trump said to his supporters. Trump then turned to Robinson, who was sitting in the crowd, and said: “When I said that to you, you looked like, ‘I don’t know if I like that comment.’” “You should like it, because you’re outstanding, and you’re going to be the next governor, so that’s going to be very cool,” Trump said.

    “We have to cherish Mark, he’s a star,” Trump said. “You have to cherish him.” “It’s like a fine wine, because that’s what you have, you have a fine wine. He’s an outstanding person. I’ve gotten to know him so well, and fairly quickly,” Trump said. “And, you know, when he endorsed me, I didn’t have to call, ‘Hey would you?’ He liked me. He thought I was good.” “All of a sudden, I see this incredible, booming voice and the beautiful rhetorical statements. And I said, I think he’s going to endorse me. He did,” Trump continued. “He didn’t call me and say, ‘Oh sir, I’d like to endorse you. You know, let’s do a big public deal and this and that.’ Just the opposite. He’s just an outstanding guy. I hope you can back him and write checks for him.”

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  597. BREAKING: Trump announces that as president, he will immediately implement a temporary 10% cap on credit card interest rates

    I have nothing against that, but it will be hard on the 90% of folks who don’t have my credit rating.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  598. It would be a little hypocritical to criticize Kamala for her anti-gouging price controls while Trump is proposing government-enforced price controls on a financial company’s earnings.

    You have that backwards. Harris is NOT proposing price controls. She is proposing PROFIT controls. And the cap on CC interest is not controlling earnings, it’s capping their charges (this may affect their earnings, but it is quite indirect).

    Both are, of course, witless, but get the criticism right.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  599. As I recall, Mr. Robinson can still withdraw before midnight tonite.

    So of course they held this until the GOP was fracked. He’ll drop out next week, but it will be “too late.” The news media arm of the Democrat Party.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  600. Yesterday he also came out for restoring the SALT tax deduction

    If you coupled that with an increase in the top marginal rate back to 39.6%, it would be a tax hike for rich Texans and a tax cut for the rich of New York and California.

    A better plan would be to raise the cap to perhaps $30K while raising the top marginal rate. That would actually raise money from the rich, while cutting taxes for the merely affluent.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  601. Kamala is a hard leftist. She has a voting record to the left of Bernie.

    That’s arguable, the voting record part.

    But GovTrack’s analysis of Harris’s entire tenure in the Senate paints a different picture. In the 116th Congress, the one that ran through 2019 and 2020, Harris was the fourth-most liberal senator, according to GovTrack, coming in behind Sens. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.) and Jeff Merkley (D-Ore.). She was still to the left of Warren, but Warren’s position in GovTrack’s analysis wasn’t as a remarkably liberal legislator. Her score was equivalent to Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), for example.

    That doesn’t take anything away that she’s hard left, but still in the sphere of Liberal Utopia Denmark, not Maduro and Venezuela.

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  602. Kevin M (a9545f) — 9/19/2024 @ 8:35 pm

    Kevin, is not “excessive profit” the result of overpricing”?

    Paul Montagu (062117)

  603. @600. I never said you called her a communist. I said you tacitly admitted she wasn’t, after shifting the goalpost from my previous comment to which you were implicitly referring.

    lurker (c23034)

  604. Kevin, is not “excessive profit” the result of overpricing”?

    But to deal with “excess profit” you have to get deep into the company’s finances. It’s more than just controlling prices, it’s knowing what prices they should post.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  605. Bernie used to talk about Sweden, but Sweden tossed the socialists out on their ears, and let Saab go under. Now he talks about Denmark. And really, this is a man who honeymooned in Brezhnev’s USSR.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  606. You have that backwards. Harris is NOT proposing price controls. She is proposing PROFIT controls.

    This isn’t a thing. Price controls are profit controls. COGS is generally set, Trump wants to both raise COGS with tariffs, AND cap prices.

    Harris only wants to screw you on the top end, not both the bottom and the top.

    Typical Trump, Harris proposes a dumb thing, Trump says “hold my beer”.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  607. This isn’t a thing.

    It’s what she said. She wants to be sure they aren’t charging “too much.” All Nixon did was freeze3 prices. Harris wants to roll them back to a point where, by some measure, the companies aren’t “gouging.” How in the world does she do that without looking at their books? Just order them to sell at some made-up price?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  608. I would be interested in hearing, Klink, how YOU would roll back prices to prevent gouging. To keep it simple, how much should a can of Campbell’s Chicken Noodle soup sell for?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  609. Not a chance. No idea, since it completely goes against any free market philosophy that exists. It could only get worse if you also taxed the inputs.

    Probably the only way would be to subsidize, but that just incentivises the company to not be efficient. The free market is ruthless, it kills without regard to race, creed, or nationality, it drives efficiency.

    Greedy corporations is a great slogan, but just look at how hard it is to prove collusion and price fixing. We used to do this with defense contractors, cost plus contracts, but that didn’t work out real well.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  610. Klink, I am not advocating doing this since the whole idea of “excess profit” is offensive and the greedy corporation model in a competitive system is absurd.

    It’s just that she has said she will prevent price gouging and to do that requires more than a price freeze.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  611. We used to do this with defense contractors, cost plus contracts, but that didn’t work out real well.

    It worked out well for the contractors. We still do that today with public utilities.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  612. nk #565

    But Angela Lansbury sure was a hottie.

    Having seen the Manchurian Candidate, I now how just disturbing that comment is.

    Appalled (721968)

  613. Yup. And the book took it all the way to Oedipus and Orestes.

    nk (b4cf5d)

  614. Today’s Wordle in 2. Magnificent.

    nk (b4cf5d)


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