Presidential Debate Open Thread (UPDATE ADDED)
[guest post by Dana]
The debate between Vice-President Kamala Harris and the former president, Donald Trump, is happening tonight:
Tonight’s debate is set to start at 9 p.m. ET and will last for 90 minutes with two commercial breaks. It will be held in Philadelphia — a deep-blue Democratic city — at the National Constitution Center. Pennsylvania is considered a key battleground state in the 2024 election cycle.
The rules for tonight’s debate:
No live audience in the debate room, nixing any opportunity for cheers or jeers during the event.
The candidates will not give an opening statement.
Moderators will be the only ones to ask questions.
Candidates will have two minutes to answer a question, with a two-minute rebuttal, as well as another minute to follow up for clarification. Microphones will only be switched on for the candidate who is answering a question.
A coin flip determined the order of closing statements, which will be two minutes per candidate, as well as the placement of the candidates’ podiums on stage. Trump won the toss, and he chose to give the last closing statement. Harris chose to have her podium appear on the right side of the screen (stage left).
For the duration of the debate, candidates will stand behind their respective podium. They will not be able to have props or pre-written notes with them. Each candidate will be given a pad of paper, a pen and a bottle of water.
There will be two commercial breaks. During that time campaign staff cannot interact with their candidate.
Pre-debate polling:
Decision Desk HQ Presidential Forecast (9/9):
Probabilities:
🟦 Harris: 54% (-2 since last week)
🟥 Trump: 46%Electoral College Forecast:
🟦 Harris: 226
🟥 Trump: 219
🟨 Tossups: 93Average Electoral Vote Projection:
🟦 Harris: 276
🟥 Trump: 262Tossups:
🟨 Pennsylvania: 52%…— Decision Desk HQ (@DecisionDeskHQ) September 9, 2024
P.S. I received this text message tonight:
—Dana
UPDATE: Garry Kasparov spoke for me last night:
I can’t vote in the US but I am honored to live here and have always admired it. I don’t much care for Harris or many of her policy positions. But even more after seeing Trump tonight, I look forward to vehemently disagreeing with her for four years as US president.
Trump is unfit and always has been. He proved it in office and is only worse now. I’m pretty conservative, but he’s not. He’s the clearer and greater threat to America and American values than the progressive mush that Harris has in her baggage.
As for “Comrade Kamala,” allow me a Lloyd Benson moment. MAGA, I know Communism. I grew up under Communism and fought against it and despise it in all its vile, soul-crushing forms. And MAGA, Kamala Harris is no Communist.
It demeans the horror of Communism to use it every time a liberal politician talks about taxes or health care, or even un-American ideas like price controls & censorship. I blasted Bernie Sanders in 2016, but even he’s just a weak tea Socialist, not a would-be totalitarian.
I’m very concerned about the future of a US that produces such weak candidates. I’m disgusted by a far left that attacks American history and values. But America can always be better, that is its unique glory. Improve it, don’t tear it all down. And please vote!
Harris’s policy flip-flops are much less damaging for that American future than Trump’s consistent contempt for constitutional norms. She’s inconsistent. He’s consistently corrupt. He’s also decaying badly, and incompetent corruption isn’t better than competent.
I blasted Obama’s foreign policy for eight years but never doubted he and his supporters would leave power peacefully.
Side note: “Trump, a would-be autocrat, using Orban, an actual autocrat, as a character reference is too perfect. As with his praise for Xi and Putin as “strong,” his naked envy of their unaccountable power is one of his few sincere expressions.”
Hello.
Dana (a9e7bb) — 9/10/2024 @ 2:18 pmGiven the debate rules, it’s going to be dull, dull, dull. You can’t say much in two minutes (either in an answer or rebuttal), so everything will be reduced to sound bites. And no back and forth questioning each other or interrupting.
Boring!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/10/2024 @ 2:40 pmGood, good, good, good vibrations (oom bop bop)
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/10/2024 @ 2:48 pmA few quick hits from me, from my favorite sources:
Ben Domenech believes that the onus is on VP Harris to have a good night:
Charlie Cooke reminds us that for as aggravating as VP Harris is on the debate stage, former President Trump is no Cicero either:
Noah Rothman reports on the unwelcome return of that tired old warhorse:
I’m not going to watch tonight, but I’ll look forward to catching up on the live commentary here later tonight.
JVW (942417) — 9/10/2024 @ 2:57 pmAnother rule is that the candidates must remain behind their podiums.
Boring!
Rip Murdock (77e4ae) — 9/10/2024 @ 2:58 pmTrue, but it’s entertaining.
Rip Murdock (77e4ae) — 9/10/2024 @ 3:01 pmBut they can make notes, and also write down as soon as they get in a few words that their campaign has told them to write (this might be the case with Kamala Harris)
Harris spent a few days in Pittsburgh preparing. Trump, like Jackie Gleason, just can’t rehearse.
(except by giving live interviews or speeches – and he does quite a lot. He got some counseling from Tulsi Gabbard and someone else whose name I forgot.)
There will be a 1-hour pre debate show on CBS and NBC and ABC and maybe others, and a half hour post debate show at 10:30 which will segue into the news,
Talk show host Mark Simone speculated that the Harris campaign went to people they knew who work or worked in the networks and asked them to give the questions they would ask – they picked the top 10 or 115 and gave her rehearsed answers.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 9/10/2024 @ 3:08 pmmany of Trump’s fans have concluded that Trump “won” — or even that he delivered an impressive performance. He did not.
Trump missed so many openings that it was embarrassing. I wonder if Harris will do as poorly — she’s younger and should have a more agile mind, but her policy preferences (the intersection of statism and presentism) would argue otherwise.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 9/10/2024 @ 3:15 pmTrue, but it’s entertaining.
So is mud-wrestling. I’d pay good money to seem then engage in that.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 9/10/2024 @ 3:16 pmExpect Trump to talk about World War III. (that’s not being predicted by most)
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 9/10/2024 @ 3:22 pmThe fact that the candidates cannot engage each other and the two minute cap on speaking is what renders this “debate” into a glorified press conference.
Boring!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/10/2024 @ 3:37 pmabortion vs illegal immigration with the economy hovering over all. Most agree with with trump ;but women voters have to vote against every rethug on the ballot over abortion. Men did this to democrats over gun control for 50 years.
asset (2bce4d) — 9/10/2024 @ 6:23 pmWell, in my opinion, boring is hearing Trump ramble and get easily trolled. All Kamala had to do was toss a remark about rallies into a serious discussion of immigration, and Trump is s–ttalking like a drunk at a football game.
I honestly think Kamala is doing a pretty good job, and though I think she’s made several false statements, she is coherent. It may just be that Biden and Trump lowered the bar, but Kamala is curb stomping Trump, and it’s not boring. It is disturbing.
Also disturbing is the moderation. They are ready for Trump’s predictable BS. They don’t seem to be fact checking the candidate they are politically aligned with. Some of the fact checks are controversial at best (such as that one about crime being down).
Bottom line, Kamala did actually prepare for this, and has probably managed to avoid everything else in the campaign, including the whole primary or any real interviews, so this performance is likely almost all that we get out of her. She will win the election, as I predicted during the last debate.
Dustin (5101f8) — 9/10/2024 @ 6:40 pmFrom MikeL over at Political Betting: “Betfair ticks towards Harris: from 2.16 to 2.08 in last few mins.”
So bettors, most of them in Britain, think Harris is gaining during the debate.
Jim Miller (52501b) — 9/10/2024 @ 6:47 pmTrump has been an mental midget for a decade, he lost the last debate too, just lost less than Biden.
He’s an octogenarian toddler.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 9/10/2024 @ 6:49 pmIt’s an occupational hazard for conmen. They screen their marks for stupidity and talk to them at their level and it becomes ingrained.
nk (cba425) — 9/10/2024 @ 6:58 pmHarris is annoying and dishonest. I wish the GOP had nominated someone I could vote for.
Time123 (266908) — 9/10/2024 @ 6:59 pmTwo more tells for when Trump is lying, when he says…(1) “everybody knows that” and (2) “like no one has seen before”.
Kamala’s leaving a lot effective responses by the wayside, IMO.
Paul Montagu (01ae08) — 9/10/2024 @ 7:03 pmAlso, Trump doubled down on his lies about the election being stolen. SMDH
Time123 (266908) — 9/10/2024 @ 7:07 pmFact checkers could have field day with this debate. There were b also occasional truths which were lost among the lies.
Iam just glad that most of the tropes and the lies told by both campaigns are making their way into this debate.
I expected Donald Trump to invoke World War III, but I didn’t expect him to say that it would be started because of people coming into the USA,
How any times did he say criminals were coming into the United States from all over the world and reducing the crime rate everywhere else?
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 9/10/2024 @ 7:10 pmThings I was annoyed with Harris about:
The bloodbath comment I think was taken out of context.
I thought her avoiding the abortion time limits was sleezy.
Maybe a couple other parts?
But Jesus everything Trump says is awful.
Nate (cfb326) — 9/10/2024 @ 7:10 pmA question for those of you who are watching this — I’m not — how well is the Calvin predictor working?
(For some time I have thought that you could explain much of what the Loser does by assuming he mostly behaves like Calvin, of the Calvin and Hobbes comic strip.)
Jim Miller (52501b) — 9/10/2024 @ 7:17 pmmouth noises.
No one has ever lost a debate this badly. He makes Biden’s performance last time look slightly less bad.
So…Does Vance take over from him? Nikki?
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 9/10/2024 @ 7:18 pmAh yes she reminded me. Her two economics plans she presented are bad.
Trump continues to go 0 for
Nate (cfb326) — 9/10/2024 @ 7:28 pmFWIW, according to the WaPo, Trump is the first president in more than a century not to bring a pet to the White House.
Jim Miller (52501b) — 9/10/2024 @ 7:29 pmMan, the look on her face is just priceless, she knows she wound him up. People are complaining that the moderators are letting him talk. Let him go, he is of the rails, over the highway, up the creek without a paddle.
When the other guy is punching himself in the nuts, let him.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 9/10/2024 @ 7:30 pmNo question Trump’s comment about ‘bloodbath’ referred to an economic domination, not literal violence. And Kamala knows that. And the moderators know that.
But all she needs to do is bait Trump, and he seems to consistently fall for it.
Biden would be so annoyed if he were awake right now and watching this.
Dustin (5101f8) — 9/10/2024 @ 7:37 pmlol Dustin, I agree.
I think the moderators did a mostly good job, although I think the questions have favored Harris. I’m not sure what they should have done differently though.
Nate (cfb326) — 9/10/2024 @ 7:44 pmBut all she needs to do is bait Trump, and he seems to consistently fall for it.
It took them this long to figure that out?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 9/10/2024 @ 7:46 pmSo, before it was over.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 9/10/2024 @ 7:51 pmThe DNC response can be read at any major news outlet.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 9/10/2024 @ 7:51 pmThey needed to be more careful in their fact checking, an attempt to one-up CNN’s far superior debate format.
Kamala mischaracterized a supreme court decision. Kamala claimed she doesn’t support mandatory gun buy-backs (said she isn’t taking anyone’s gun away) when she’s known for supporting mandatory gun confiscation. ABC didn’t fact check her on numerous low hanging fruit. They did fact check Trump quite a bit, and I think they gave controversial takes as ‘fact.’
Trump wasn’t up for this either way. ABC could have been even and fair like CNN was. To a small extent, the consistent level of bias will help Trump. There is a reason trump was viable in the first place, and a lot of it is how politicized institutions have lost trust from a huge amount of American voters. Obviously when Trump started rambling that dogs were getting eaten, ABC should have allowed Kamala to answer that. There was no need to interject.
But the GOP knows the rules. The debates will usually be like this. Nominate someone who can handle it. In the right hands, a capable candidate could just quickly point out when the moderators fact check wrong. They probably can’t whine that they didn’t hit the opponent on a fact check… because they can just hit the opponent.
Ain’t nobody wondering why Biden isn’t the candidate today, that’s for sure.
Dustin (5101f8) — 9/10/2024 @ 8:07 pmDon’t believe the things you see and the things you hear. Only believe the Trump, the Trump knows all, the Trump is truth, the Trump is good.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 9/10/2024 @ 8:07 pmLosers blame the refs.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 9/10/2024 @ 8:14 pmThe refs were also rough on her too, but she handled it. You’re going to get some pushback when you start talking about the immigrants eating your cats and dogs.
He brought it up…twice.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 9/10/2024 @ 8:20 pmDustin on the fact checking:
Yes, there were a few places I would have liked Harris to be fact checked. And she will be.
Trump was not fact checked on a TON of lies, and that’s ok too.
It looked like they had just picked a couple things ahead of time and were like “if this clear lie comes up, we’re going to respond with facts.”
Which isn’t a crazy way to deal with it.
Nate (cfb326) — 9/10/2024 @ 8:21 pmSo, is Vance going to show up for Walz? Walz is more genial than her, and Vance actually more repellant than Trump.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 9/10/2024 @ 8:23 pmJust plain not true.
hilarious claim.
Dustin (5101f8) — 9/10/2024 @ 8:26 pmBTW, it’s over.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 9/10/2024 @ 8:29 pmYeah she killed it. Watch the undecideds tumble into her camp after this. She was awol, now we’ve seen her in action. It was over after she bated him about his rallies and he fell for it. He’s really not good at this.
JRH (489761) — 9/10/2024 @ 8:31 pmwhoops. Baited. heh.
JRH (489761) — 9/10/2024 @ 8:32 pmYeah, they didn’t hit Trump on every BS thing he said. Who could? It would be amazing to see anyone even true.
But they were on one side.
I think you’re right that Trump’s nonsense was predictable. But much of Kamala’s was as well, for example she has supported mandatory gun buy-backs. That’s mandatory gun confiscation. She’s also flip flopped. They knew they would be talking about this. They could have been prepared. Most people who read political news all day were. I could name more than 20 of these fairly low hanging fruit.
It’s a lot better if debate moderators didn’t inject fact checking at all. Just give the opponent the opportunity to respond. Kamala was basically doing so, right? So all ABC did here was give Trump some cover. Much of Trump’s support is due to how many institutions are hopelessly corrupted by the same politics ABC is corrupted by.
That’s why CNN’s format was refreshing.
I think the moderators also changed subjects very conveniently for one side. Altogether the networks all three have been like this for ages, and the GOP should just pick candidates who are capable of turning that into an advantage. It can be done.
I certainly don’t think Kamala needed it against Trump. I don’t think Trump prepares for these debates, and Kamala obviously did prepare, and she’s obviously worked in a courtroom. Perhaps not enough to debate Newt Gingrich, but against Trump it is no contest. ABC doesn’t get forgiveness from me for being in the tank. That kind of thing is exactly why we are here today, actually.
GOP is nuts to keep agreeing to debates with networks.
Dustin (5101f8) — 9/10/2024 @ 8:34 pmThe Montagu Hot Take: Taylor Swift won the debate, Kamala was uneven and only okay, Trump was a typical firehose of lies.
The fact-checkers are going to have a field day. I’m surprised that Trump went with the cat-eating migrants lie, but Laura Loomer did accompany him on his jet.
Paul Montagu (01ae08) — 9/10/2024 @ 8:41 pmDustin @41,
I thought they asked specifically about her flip flops on those positions. It felt to me like they were prepared and pressed her on that. I could be misremembering (I often treat these as a rare occasion for mid-week drinking), so feel to correct me if I’m wrong.
She was in fact not fact checking him for the most part (with a couple of exceptions). That’s the tough thing about a gish-gallop: in order to fact check him she wouldn’t have been able to talk about literally anything.
In fact, she seemed to strategically NOT rebut him on almost anything, giving him the last word on almost every (every?) topic.
Nate (cfb326) — 9/10/2024 @ 8:58 pmLet him
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 9/10/2024 @ 9:08 pmI was certainly wrong about it being dull and boring. 😉
Rip Murdock (77e4ae) — 9/10/2024 @ 9:13 pmThe debate theme song.
Rip Murdock (77e4ae) — 9/10/2024 @ 9:15 pmTrump’s debate plan was more like a concept.
Paul Montagu (01ae08) — 9/10/2024 @ 9:21 pmI think the moderators also changed subjects very conveniently for one side. Altogether the networks all three have been like this for ages, and the GOP should just pick candidates who are capable of turning that into an advantage. It can be done.
Gingrich showed how. Romney showed how not. Romney could have destroyed Obama by asking Crowley how she knew about that speech of Obama’s, and how Obama knew she knew (an Obama aide had brought it up in conversation earlier in the week). Instead Romney was destroyed (and Crowley left journalism soon after).
Kevin M (a9545f) — 9/10/2024 @ 9:24 pmTrump needs to step down.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 9/10/2024 @ 9:25 pmThe Drudge Report, which has admittedly been in the tank for Harris, has a devastating graphic
Kevin M (a9545f) — 9/10/2024 @ 9:30 pmLOL! Who’s gonna make him? Trump will never step down voluntarily, and if he was forced out MAGAWorld™️would just stay home. And it would negate the Republican argument that Harris isn’t a legitimate candidate since she never went through the primaries.
Rip Murdock (77e4ae) — 9/10/2024 @ 9:36 pmNever trumpers cruella deville won her debates against dump in 2016 and still lost. Harris is not hated like hellory.
asset (81f2db) — 9/10/2024 @ 9:38 pmThey’re all over the internet.
Rip Murdock (77e4ae) — 9/10/2024 @ 9:39 pmAnd it would negate the Republican argument that Harris isn’t a legitimate candidate since she never went through the primaries.
It’s not a real argument. The cat-tarian thing is a better one.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 9/10/2024 @ 9:40 pmDevastating to whom? It seems to more like mockery.
Rip Murdock (77e4ae) — 9/10/2024 @ 9:43 pmNo cat-erwauling.
Rip Murdock (77e4ae) — 9/10/2024 @ 9:49 pmI think the moderators gave Trump some good chances to talk about plans and intentions, but he didn’t bring anything other than his really negative campaign speeches and some reactionary ranting (also he was kinda racist). He didn’t speak to the audience he needed to reach as undecided voters.
Harris did a much better job of reaching out to undecided voters and a much better job of talking about plans and intentions. She also had a better grasp of concrete examples and issues on the ground.
(There was a specific question on Harris’ flip-flops, she actually partially answered it before sliding off to her preferred topics.)
Nic (120c94) — 9/10/2024 @ 10:06 pmSome other things.
Kamala introduced herself to Trump, extending her hand and telling her name, correctly pronounced.
Kamala made eye contact with Trump throughout the debate, but Trump seldom if ever made eye contact with her. I’ll pass on assessing the psychology of it.
The 33:1 ratio of Trump:Harris false claims sounds about right. Abby Phillip has a point…
This…
Paul Montagu (01ae08) — 9/10/2024 @ 10:32 pmTrump’s Afghanistan issue was pretty strong, but he couldn’t just point out that his deal (remember when he invited the Taliban to Camp David via twitter, then cancelled it on twitter) could be rescinded, and Biden/Harris didn’t. Just take yes as an answer, stop talking, but he couldn’t.
But realistically, his ceiling is 48, his floor 46, she’s probably 50/47. Did this really change a vote? It may get more people stay home for Trump, and come out for her, but maybe TayTay is the biggest news of the night. I’d be surprised if that doesn’t drive white 18yo girls to register and vote. 18 year old boys are idiots and don’t vote, and I don’t think Hulk Hogan or Kid Rock turns them out.
I’m pretty sure it solidified her at 270 though in the blue wall, but it probably puts the whole desert southwest leaning her way too. She’s probably not going to win both NC and GA, but NC has a terrible GOP Gov candidate driving people home, but GA, I kinda doubt.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 9/10/2024 @ 10:52 pmI wonder how long before the adds of Trump saying “she’s black and she puts out” start to air?
Time123 (3ce45c) — 9/11/2024 @ 3:30 amNo cat-erwauling.
Obviously a dog whistle to evangelicals to invoke the specter of dark people eating missionaries.
nk (cba425) — 9/11/2024 @ 4:02 amHinged vs. Unhinged. Any candidate who takes up valuable time to espouse that Haitian immigrants are eating cats deserves what he gets. She pushed his buttons and, on cue, he delivered the nonsense. The election will remain close but I think there is not a clear leader. Who wants 4 more years of nonsense?
AJ_Liberty (65dcd5) — 9/11/2024 @ 5:00 amDavid French nails it:
lurker (c23034) — 9/11/2024 @ 5:05 amTrump’s stock scam is down to $16.30.
David Frum…
The points where I thought Trump held his own were…
(1) on abortion, IMO, perhaps because I believe Dobbs was the right decision, and he was for IVF and exceptions, but then he couldn’t stop lying about after-birth abortions, i.e., murdering babies.
(2) Biden’s botched withdrawal from Afghanistan, which did make him look weak and probably gave Putin more reason to invade, but then he lied about the $85 billion in equipment and had no answer for his pathetic surrender deal and for inviting terrorists to Camp David.
(3) tariffs, surprisingly, for pointing out that Biden didn’t lift Trump’s tariffs on China, but lied about these Wharton economists who loved his plan. The only economist I know who supports his plan is Peter “my life for you” Navarro, who’s an idjit with a PhD.
Other than that, I thought Trump’s performance was a dog’s breakfast.
Trump had chances to really challenge Kamala but couldn’t get out of his own ego and vanity and mental illness. Trump had a chance to nail Kamala on the Israel-Hamas War for her muddled comments on Hamas and their continued existence, but resorted to name-calling, for example.
Paul Montagu (247520) — 9/11/2024 @ 5:16 amHis Ukraine answers were ridiculous, he’s plainly in support of Putin’s cultural genocide of a sovereign state.
His words about brown-skinned people eating cats and dogs was plainly racist.
But he kept lying and lying. For example, he didn’t create a great economy, he inherited one (why Harris didn’t bring that up, I can’t say).
At this point in the day the Twin Towers have been both hit by airliners and the plane attacking the Pentagon is nearing its final descent.
Carry on with the 2 minutes of hate.
Back on hiatus.
NJRob (f50f18) — 9/11/2024 @ 6:19 amShe came to win. She obviously prepared thoroughly.
He doesn’t strike me as someone who prepared, at all.
He got his a$$ kicked and imo a worse one is coming in Nov.
JRH (489761) — 9/11/2024 @ 6:55 amI have thoughts…
1) It’s unfortunate the moderators became a story here…just goes to show that no GOP candidate would get a fair debate in places like ABC. Frankly, Trump deserves to get dogpiled by the moderator for agreeing to going on ABC.
2) This was a win for Kamala in the sense that she hurdled the extremely low bar.
3) I don’t think this debate will change the election either way, because both sides can get some goodies in small 30 seconds of soundbites and snapshots.
4) lulz when Trump flip the script by saying “I’m speaking” and “Quiet now”.
5) Both Trump and Harris final statements were strong, and should’ve used that at the beginning. I think people remember the beginning of the debates, moreso than the end.
whembly (477db6) — 9/11/2024 @ 7:04 amThe moderators only became a story because Trump is whining about ’em the next day. They were under no obligation to refrain from fact-checking his more blatant lies.
Trump remains the biggest whiner and sorest loser in presidential history.
On Biden’s best day, he couldn’t have performed better than Kamala, IMO. It was the right call that he withdrew.
Oh, I’ll take the return of Rad and hiatus of Rob all day long.
Paul Montagu (247520) — 9/11/2024 @ 7:12 amBritish bettors switched to favoring Harris during and immediately after the debate.
It’s still close, 52 to 47 percent, but the shift is dramatic, after a long period of stability.
From the header:
TSE also thinks the debate became “the prosecutor versus the felon”, and the prosecutor won, as they usually do.
Jim Miller (e3c46a) — 9/11/2024 @ 7:23 amDid anyone notice that Trump called Kamala a slutt last night?
No blowback from that?
Paul Montagu (247520) — 9/11/2024 @ 8:18 amI noticed that and called it out up thread. I’m sure it will be in attack adds.
I’m sort of surprised he didn’t actually use slurs.
Time123 (2aa4c0) — 9/11/2024 @ 8:40 amwhembly (#68)
How do you call Trump or Harris on obvious lies (Springfield OH) is a problem in these situations. ABC chose an approach that upsets Republican partisans, because they did not call Harris out on, say, her passage on Charlottesville. I think not providing some factchecking against the true out of control garbage is a failure, but YMMV. Ultimately, this debate did not turn into a food fight, which is a triumph.
It was Trump who set the bar so low, with an assist from the NYT thumbsuckers, who like to repeat stories on low asessments of her political talents. She had at least enough talent to understand that you go into a debate prepared. I think she did well — no awkaward pauses, she spoke in pargraphs, she did what you need to do to Trump in direct combat — mock him.
Maybe — Trump’s close was pretty good. But failure in this venue will cause him to keep stepping on his duck. (Provided he saved it from the raging hunger of those Hatians in Springfield)
That wasn’t a bad idea on his part, but it didn’t seem to land. Interestingly is that Harris did not choose to use those chestnuts.
Absolutely agree here. Trump failed through lack of discipline and allowing himself to be manipulated into his psychopathologies. He had a good Trumpy point on Kamela not having done the things she’s going to do, and why not go wake up Sleepy Joe and get to work on all this tuff. But he did not make that message front and center.
Appalled (27e7fd) — 9/11/2024 @ 8:42 am#71
There is so much word salad to get through, Paul…So many lies, so much racist blather.
Appalled (27e7fd) — 9/11/2024 @ 8:44 am#72
Seriously, why would Kamela want to address this slur, when there are so many others. “Donald Trump says Kamela Harris puts out” looks like something scrawled in a bathroom stall.
Appalled (27e7fd) — 9/11/2024 @ 8:48 amI’ve added an update to the post.
Dana (6be03c) — 9/11/2024 @ 9:17 amWill Trump go away if he loses? I doubt it, and I doubt the GOP will be able to regroup under someone else for at least 1 more presidential election — not if Trump is still around acting like a spoiler or a kingmaker. If it can’t have Trump, the GOP will fight to show who is most like Trump.
DRJ (44b292) — 9/11/2024 @ 9:23 amIf Trump wins, the Gop will not change for decades.
DRJ (44b292) — 9/11/2024 @ 9:26 amAppalled, her passage on Charlottesville was accurate, but they could’ve called her out on Project 2025, given that Trump disavowed it, or for “Trump left us the worst unemployment since the Great Depression.”
As for the Trump’s slutt comment, it’s not Kamala who would address it, but her supporters should, for the personal attack that it is.
Paul Montagu (247520) — 9/11/2024 @ 9:31 amThe irony is that the real slutt is Trump, for cheating on all three of his wives, for cheating with a Playboy model while married to a model, for cheating with an adult film actress while his 3rd wife was nursing his 5th kid.
I didn’t think it was sluttshaming, he’s just inarticulate and he was talking to her putting out that she was now black. But you can never tell with him, he threw so much poo that it’s hard to give the monkey the benefit of the doubt.
I still don’t think he’s “lying” in the traditional sense. He literally doesn’t live in reality, so he believes what he’s saying at the time. Sociopath or mentally damaged, who’s to say, two things can be true at the same time.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 9/11/2024 @ 9:58 amDo you seriously believe that? I’ll bet it will be resurrected if Trump is elected.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/11/2024 @ 10:03 amOn 2025, he said he knew nothing, and then said it had some good ideas. It’s hard to both endorse and disavow at the same time.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 9/11/2024 @ 10:06 amIn another devastating blow to the Trump campaign, Caitlin Clark “liked” Taylor Swift’s endorsement of Kamala Harris. 😉
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/11/2024 @ 10:20 amHe’s a master-debater.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 9/11/2024 @ 10:48 amAgain, I want to thank all those MAGA voters who thought that a madman was the best shot at defending freedom from the grasping socialists.
Everything is your fault.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 9/11/2024 @ 11:19 amThe man-toddler can never accept that he is not the best at everything, and that he might actually be. . . a loser!
Dana (f6d6fa) — 9/11/2024 @ 11:21 amI guess the conservative principle that “you’re only entitled to equal opportunity, not equal outcomes” no longer applies when it comes to reconciling how the world’s most shameless liar and generally ill-informed blowhard might legitimately require more fact checking than someone who doesn’t state a blatant falsehood in every sentence she utters. HOW COULD THIS POSSIBLY BE EXPLAINED EXCEPT FOR BIAS?
Turd Ferguson (498528) — 9/11/2024 @ 11:29 amMaybe it’s because Trump lied 33 times more. Think camp shower versus Niagra Falls.
Paul Montagu (247520) — 9/11/2024 @ 11:36 amABC’s moderators fact-checking Trump only had pushback from MAGA, affecting them not at all. Fact-checking Harris, otoh, would have got them transferred to the Fairbanks affiliate.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 9/11/2024 @ 11:39 amWell, that and the fact that Kamala didn’t say something completely insane like “immigrants are eating all the pet cats in Springfield, Ohio. Trust me bro, I saw it on Truth Social.”
I miss the days when Republicans were sane and people complained about Candy Crowley fact checking Romney because Romney actually wasn’t wrong. That’s a legitimate bias claim. Trump being called out more often for lying than his opponents isn’t bias. It’s just a reflection of reality. He lies more often and more blatantly than his opponents.
Turd Ferguson (a01d87) — 9/11/2024 @ 11:52 amTrump at the debate
1. Claimed Every Democrat wanted Roe v Wade repealed
2. Claiming crime is through the roof
3. Claiming he saved Obamacare
4. Claiming a Howard-grad lawyer said Harris wasn’t black
5. Claimed no inflation in his first term
6. Claimed migrants are arriving from prisons and mental institutions
7. Claimed 21million illegal immigrants are crossing border every month
8. Claimed in Springfield, they (immigrants) are eating the dogs
9. Claimed China paid tariffs rather than importing businesses
10. Claimed Biden inflation was highest ever
11. Claimed Harris was the first candidate out in 2020
12. Claimed Harris was border “Czar” rather than Mayorkas
13. Claimed every legal scholar wanted Roe overturned
14. Claimed Nancy Pelosi was in charge of Capitol security on J6 and that she turned down the offer of National Guard troops
15. Claimed Harris met with Putin shortly before the Ukraine invasion
16. Claimed $85B of equipment was lost in Afghanistan when reality is more than order smaller
17. Claimed Biden took money from China and Ukraine
18. Claimed Biden orchestrated the criminal cases against him
19. Claimed Europe provided far less funding to Ukraine than the U.S.
20. Claimed Central Park 5 pleaded guilty and that they had killed a person
21. Claimed he ended Russia’s Nord-Stream pipeline
22. Claimed some states allow abortion after birth and Walz said it was fine
23. Claimed US pays almost all of NATO
24. Claimed Iran did not fund terrorism during his term
25. Claimed he rebuilt the US military
26. Claimed there was so much proof that the 2020 election was fraudulent
27. Claimed no one goes to Harris’ rallies and no one leaves his early
28. Claimed no judge looked at the merits of his 2020 election claims
29. Claimed Harris has a plan to confiscate everybody’s guns
Are they all lies or do they also include abject ignorance (some are just out-of-control hyperbole wrapped in ignorance)? The problem is the scale….and that many simply are numb and take much of this on blind faith. Harris got a couple of things wrong and left off context on a couple of others. But Sweet Mother of God — the man is running to be leader of the free world. He has to be able to do some facts honestly. He can’t. This is what unfit looks like. The GOP should be embarrassed.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 9/11/2024 @ 12:22 pmMy friend took me aside and said “Sir, everybody knows that Trump won the debate, the likes of which no one has seen before.”
Paul Montagu (e7d63b) — 9/11/2024 @ 12:36 pmI didn’t believe him. Suspicious pattern of speech.
Pretty decent explanation of what impact, if any, after this debate:
https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2024/09/11/reuters-focus-group-swings-to-trump-after-debate-n3794354
If Trump wins… it’ll be because those deciding voters are looking for a change.
whembly (477db6) — 9/11/2024 @ 12:36 pmIf Trump wins… it’ll be because those deciding voters are looking for a change.
Even if it’s random change.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 9/11/2024 @ 12:47 pmThe signing ceremony for the law banning the eating of cats and ducks will be televised. Dick Cheney hardest hit.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 9/11/2024 @ 12:48 pmWithin an hour of the end of the debate, the Harris camp was taunting Donald Trump about (maybe) not wanting another debate.
Trump is already on record as wanting more debates – this may have been done because they want Trump to accede to their forum and conditions.
So there probably will be at least one more debate. (Trump wanted three, but the first one he proposed was for September 4)
This is besides the vice-presidential debate between JD Vance and Tim Walz scheduled for Tuesday October 1 at 9.M on CBS in New York.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 9/11/2024 @ 1:16 pm> allowing himself to be manipulated into his psychopathologies
Kind of makes you wonder how easy it would be for foreign leaders to manipulate him.
aphrael (9c2ac5) — 9/11/2024 @ 1:28 pmAJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 9/11/2024 @ 12:22 pm
Some are stumbles in speaking (like 21 million people “pouring into our country monthly” a month where he clearly meant to say something like a total of 21 million since January, 2021 – he referenced another figure – 15 million – also wrong – which has circulated)
https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-donald-trump-says-nearly-15-million-people-have-crossed-border-1876091
But there probably is a source for that number. A bad and dishonest one.
The interesting point is that nobody at the debate – not the moderators, not Kamala Harris challenged him on that – not even this claim:
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/harris-trump-presidential-debate-transcript/story?id=
113560542
Not a word about this from Kamala Harris.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 9/11/2024 @ 1:45 pmFix`ed the broken link to ABC debate transcript:
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/harris-trump-presidential-debate-transcript/story?id=113560542
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 9/11/2024 @ 1:47 pmPrediction: Never again will there be debates that start before the ballot cutoffs.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 9/11/2024 @ 1:50 pmYeah, Sammy, the thing about a Gish Gallop of falsehoods is that it becomes extremely difficult to correct all the lies that are spewed. If he spends two minutes saying things that aren’t true it takes longer than 2 minutes to correct them.
So it was pretty clear she made a choice of saying “Look, he’s going to lie a lot,” but then not correct each false thing he said because there were an overwhelming number of false statements. I think she was probably right in how she handled it.
Nate (be5ee2) — 9/11/2024 @ 1:51 pm98. aphrael (9c2ac5) — 9/11/2024 @ 1:28 pm
The Kremlin did in 2019. But it didn’t last.
That was done by feeding him false information about people in Ukraine having tried to prevent his election, and spying on the DNC, and the Ambassador – whom he fired – being allied with the corrupt people in Ukraine wo had worked against him in 2016 – and then there was the accusation against Joe Biden backed up by Joe Biden’s own words on tape! that he had singlehandedly caused the firing of a prosecutor in order to stop an investigation (Trump didn’t notice that Biden did not say the last part)
https://www.cfr.org/event/foreign-affairs-issue-launch-former-vice-president-joe-biden
Now the thing is: Biden lied! About causing the firing of the prosecutor.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 9/11/2024 @ 1:56 pmThere were certain lies she didn’t want to challenge because people might not believe the challenge and it would establishment as soft on that issue.
You know what I think they may have done?
The Democrats succeeded in feeding into the Republican anti-illegal immigrant smear machine the claim that Haitians or other foreign nationals in Ohio were killing cats and dogs in order to eat them, (not because they were hungry, by the way, but because it was supposedly
a thing in Haiti) and they were ready for that.
And contacted ABC to make sure they fact checked it – and there was Kamala Harris, visibly amused on camera, acting surprised, when this claim had been circulating for maybe a day and a half.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 9/11/2024 @ 2:04 pmKevin M (a9545f) — 9/11/2024 @ 1:50 pm
You mean like the June 27 debate?
I think that debates after early voting begins will be rare, and the first ones will be before.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 9/11/2024 @ 2:06 pm#101
Prediction — Never again will there be two nominees who are circling 80.
I would love to see a Harris’ success driving us back to an era where elections took place between Labor Day and Election Day, and the selection process for nominees was shorter, and dominated by the parties. The primary era gave us Reagan, and mediocrity (and worse) before and after
Appalled (27e7fd) — 9/11/2024 @ 2:08 pmTrump said West Virginia when he meant Virginia:
That was referencing former Virginia Governor Ralph Northam.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/31/politics/ralph-northam-third-trimester-abortion/index.html
But this was not a law, but a proposed law “that would significantly loosen restrictions on late-term abortions.”
Governor Northam had said this on radio station WTOP.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 9/11/2024 @ 2:18 pmProbably because Trump’s statement on worldwide crime was fact free to begin with.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/11/2024 @ 2:19 pmHow much do you need to “wove Miste’ Twump” to see something like this
and not retch at the wretch?
nk (b40f79) — 9/11/2024 @ 2:23 pmThe selection process will be as long and only as long as the latest date that a candidate can enter the race.
To do this it must be possible to raise money quickly (not start a year in advance of the primaries)
Now this year the selection process started (for Harris) on July 21 of the election year.
The last time a candidate was selected so late by party insiders was Harry Truman for vice president in 1944, to dislodge Henry A. Wallace.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 9/11/2024 @ 2:23 pmAssuming facts not in evidence.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/11/2024 @ 2:25 pmRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/11/2024 @ 2:19 pm
But Kamala Harris didn’t dare say so.
And Trump didn’t dare to say he would veto a national abortion ban, even though that was the clear import of what he was saying, and Kamala Harris twisted the knife in him, hoping people would believe that he indeed would sign in.
And nobdoy mentioned constitutionality..
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 9/11/2024 @ 2:26 pmRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/11/2024 @ 2:25 pm
I know. I’m just suspicious.
I do think the Democrats may have decided to hoist Donald Trump by his own petard.
Feed a ridiculous claim (that doesn’t make people too evil) into the MAGA smear machine.
You don’t think that’s possible?
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 9/11/2024 @ 2:29 pmRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/11/2024 @ 10:29 am
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/11/2024 @ 2:32 pmwhembly:
Appalled:
Trump pointed out he was copying her. There wasn’t much opportunity for her to use it but she wouldn’t want to use it after that.
But she did copy something of Trump’s:
For claiming not to have lost the 2020 election.
Then she goes on: (and describes them as doing something other than laughing)
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 9/11/2024 @ 2:36 pmNo, but if what you say is true it’s just more evidence of how easily the “MAGA smear machine” can be manipulated. The whole issue was brought up by JD Vance, which even he admits “may not be true.”
It just shows how gullible Trump and Vance are.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/11/2024 @ 2:37 pm> You mean like the June 27 debate?
Yes.
In retrospect, both Biden and Trump would be better off had that debate not happened (although the country is better off that it did).
Biden, because he’d still be the nominee.
Trump, because he would be guaranteed re-election.
The country, because Trump would have been guaranteed re-election.
aphrael (9c2ac5) — 9/11/2024 @ 2:42 pmHere’s where Trump mentioned World War III:
Also:
And earlier:
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 9/11/2024 @ 2:43 pmMAGAWorld turns on Caitlin Clark.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/11/2024 @ 2:58 pmTrump’s comments on Israel/Gaza showed how desperately he wants a Nobel Peace Prize.
John Boddie (dcf99c) — 9/11/2024 @ 3:01 pmTrump had good points to make. At points he made those points…but a lot of the time he horribly mangled information. Both candidates say generally dumb things about the economy…but that’s the expectation for politicians….a chicken in every pot and all. And collectively we don’t insist on better.
The problem is when this economic oversimplification permeates everything and there are no shared facts. No shared facts will eventually lead to violence as we each defend our funhouse view of reality. Truth matters. Our leaders do need to be honest enough and factually informed enough. I just don’t think Trump is….
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 9/11/2024 @ 3:06 pmThe origins of the pet-eating story are less conspiratorially minded than your evidence free suggestion:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/11/2024 @ 3:18 pmSpeaking of the conspiratorially minded:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/11/2024 @ 4:27 pmHarris had a good night. Now, by proposing a second debate, she’s trying to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. When you’ve won the argument, you should shut up and sit down. In this case it’s doubly true, as there’s little to no upside for Harris in a second debate, but considerable downside. I doubt there’s a meaningful number of voters left for her win by replicating her first performance, but she can certainly lose some of the wobblers she grabbed last night if Trump makes a comeback. And I expect he will. He’s many things, most of them vile and disordered, but he’s not stupid. He’ll adjust, and now that the expectations have been reset, all he needs is a modest improvement to win the rematch. Harris, on the other hand, I fear will make no adjustments, believing, out of arrogance, that what won the last war will win the next one.
lurker (c23034) — 9/11/2024 @ 4:37 pmI don’t think there will be second debate. There’s too little time left in the campaign; Harris will insist on open mics; and Trump will insist that it be held on Fox News. One thing is certain is that Trump won’t change his performance; it would be like asking a leopard to change its spots.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/11/2024 @ 4:44 pmOuch!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/11/2024 @ 4:47 pmSince Trump believes he won the debate, he feels there is no need for a second one. Fine with me.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/11/2024 @ 4:54 pmWeawity is what Miste’ Twump says it is and if you t’uly wove him it wi;; be wea’ to you too.
nk (6dbdb9) — 9/11/2024 @ 5:25 pmThat’s what he says, not what he believes. I won’t attempt to divine Trump’s actual beliefs. Down that road madness lies. But if the polls say Harris got a bump, he’ll somehow process it through his cognitive sewage factory, whatever he says. And adjust he will, even if his ability to be less Trumpy is only marginal. As I said, expectations now being that he’s a gibbering lunatic and she’s Abraham Lincoln, a marginal improvement may be all he needs to win the perception contest.
As for whether the debate will happen, who knows? If you put a gun to my head, I’d say yes it will since both candidates think it would help them. But there are too many variables for me to say it with any confidence.
lurker (c23034) — 9/11/2024 @ 5:26 pm#123 According to a quick search those earrings cost $2100 — list. I am — to say the least — no expert on such things, but that doesn’t sound terribly expensive for a woman married to a wealthy Hollywood lawyer.
Assuming, of course, that she doesn’t have many, many pairs with similar costs.
Jim Miller (df3f7f) — 9/11/2024 @ 5:42 pmBut to state what I think should be obvious, I hope you’re right. I very much don’t want there to be a second debate. Until last night, all the announcement and convention bounces notwithstanding, I’ve believed Trump would win the election. Now for the first time I feel like it’s a tossup. Take the W, Kamala. Don’t open yet another door for the turd to walk through.
lurker (c23034) — 9/11/2024 @ 5:42 pmOf course, there’s the reality that the more Trump is standing next to a normal human, the worse he’s going look.
Plus, if she’s egging him on to do another, and he refuses, he looks weak. If he does it, though, he shows himself to be a loon. So it’s win/win.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 9/11/2024 @ 6:43 pmI have had too much success working on improving my community to spend the time here to catch up on Mouse Utopia’s trajectory. A quick scrolling suggests it is going as expected. Having no desire to put any effort into fully fleshing this out, does anyone know if NJRob’s comment is the only one that acknowledges the anniversary of 9/11? I fully understand that Jan 6 was much worse, but really??
Have fun gang! I will observe from my peaceful perch.
BuDuh (6f9fa2) — 9/11/2024 @ 8:20 pmMAGA is coping very normally with Trump’s comically inept debate performance.
lurker (c23034) — 9/11/2024 @ 8:25 pmHere is this:
https://mikerowe.com/2018/09/were-going-to-do-something/
Good luck with your important infighting.
Chow!
BuDuh (6f9fa2) — 9/11/2024 @ 8:25 pmBuDuh,
I was the only one here that remembered 9/11 amd posted on it.
I hope you have a peaceful day. Stay well.
NJRob (f50f18) — 9/11/2024 @ 8:28 pmTake care NJRob. Thank you.
We can now go back to watching Whembly “roll a huge boulder endlessly up a steep hill in Tartarus.”
LOL
BuDuh (6f9fa2) — 9/11/2024 @ 8:36 pmAaah, virtue-signaling from the illiberal intolerant right-wing. How sweet. Ta-ta.
Paul Montagu (be56b4) — 9/11/2024 @ 9:10 pmCome on, man. We can find some common ground that we all know our country was done a great evil on 9/11, and we shouldn’t forget just how evil.
Dustin (a7904a) — 9/11/2024 @ 9:15 pmI don’t need to be guilt-tripped from a troll for not writing a remembrance, not after watching coverage and reading personal stories for a good chunk of the day.
Paul Montagu (be56b4) — 9/11/2024 @ 9:44 pmDonald Trump says the polls say he won, 92-7 and 86-3 and 67-13. But also, she won because the moderators cheated or she got the answers or she was wearing magic earphones.
So he rolled her…and he lost…in his head…at the same time.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 9/11/2024 @ 10:40 pm@66 neo-cons said they would need a ” second pearl harbor” before the american people would let them invade Iraq. peanac 1998. never forget.
asset (3135db) — 9/12/2024 @ 1:09 amSome of us remember that on 9/11/2001 Trump bragged that he now had the tallest building in New York.
nk (40f652) — 9/12/2024 @ 3:25 am@124 Lurker, because she demonstrated how bad Trump is but didn’t do a good job introducing herself.
Time123 (67b869) — 9/12/2024 @ 4:07 amDustin, 9/11 was tragic, no one here disputes that. But most stopped taking Rob and Buduh seriously a long time ago. I imagine if someone like you, or Sammy, or AJ, or Filipe (MHRIP) had written something about it there would have been more engagement.
But no one serious had anything to say about it here so the conversation here stayed on the debate.
Time123 (67b869) — 9/12/2024 @ 4:15 am@135 “Infighting” assumes everyone here is on the same team. That’s incorrect even if there are areas of agreement.
Also, nice Binary between “infighting” and “Echo chamber”
Time123 (67b869) — 9/12/2024 @ 4:18 amWithin minutes the two sock puppets emerge to say hello….
AJ_Liberty (6601c6) — 9/12/2024 @ 5:43 amI think they’re different ppl.
Time123 (9d8e3b) — 9/12/2024 @ 6:13 amFormer US Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez has endorsed Kamala Harris for President.
Rip Murdock (b434fe) — 9/12/2024 @ 7:02 am#147
BuDuh and NJRob have vastly different writing styles.
I have always wondered about why volunteer commenters on a blog are somehow obliged to write about things or they are showing their moral failings or lack of patriotism. I may feel 9-11 deeply and feel no obligation to trot my feelings out on the stage for everyone to see. Patriotism isn’t performance.
Appalled (1f303e) — 9/12/2024 @ 7:17 amYa think?
Rip Murdock (b434fe) — 9/12/2024 @ 7:24 amFor MAGAWorld it is.
Rip Murdock (b434fe) — 9/12/2024 @ 7:25 am#152
Trump is the least patriotic candidate for President since Jefferson Davis.
Appalled (1f303e) — 9/12/2024 @ 7:33 amIt’s childish and immature. More than once, Rob scolded Dana for not covering one of his hobby horse topics on a open thread.
Paul Montagu (be56b4) — 9/12/2024 @ 7:44 amAs a former blogger who wrote a lot, my hackles raised when someone said “well, how come you didn’t write about that“.
It’s a blog. A blogger can write or not write about whatever he/she damn well wants, and shouldn’t be bullied into covering some other guy’s pet issues. If you want to raise a topic, then raise it yourself.
Trump is the least patriotic candidate for President since Jefferson Davis.
Henry Wallace might be somewhere on that list. Or maybe Strom Thurmond. Depends on what you mean by patriotic.
Kevin M (cb1dd9) — 9/12/2024 @ 8:28 amFIFY
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/12/2024 @ 8:45 amEvery Trump rally is an exercise in performance art.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/12/2024 @ 8:46 amBrutal:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/12/2024 @ 10:06 amIt’s a blog. A blogger can write or not write about whatever he/she damn well wants, and shouldn’t be bullied into covering some other guy’s pet issues. If you want to raise a topic, then raise it yourself.
Our host has said that he will write about your topic for $100. It still might not be to your liking.
Kevin M (d61acf) — 9/12/2024 @ 10:36 amOne thing is certain is that Trump won’t change his performance; it would be like asking a leopard to change its spots.
Oh, he’ll act Presidential if he’s elected. Really he will.
So again we are faced with a choice between possibly the worst GOP candidate since James Blaine vs a lying socialist with media backing. My only comfort is that the socialist isn’t running away with it, indicating that the public isn’t too keen on that. Not that it will matter much when she starts settling Netroots lawsuits with consent decrees.
Kevin M (d61acf) — 9/12/2024 @ 10:43 am@158: Karl Rove is someone worth listening to on practical politics.
Kevin M (d61acf) — 9/12/2024 @ 10:44 amHere’s where Trump mentioned World War III
Bringing up the threat of a major war while ranting about cat-eating isn’t his best move. People want someone who can be calm in a crisis and Trump Tuesday was anything but. J6 aside, this is Harris’s best argument for non-Democrats.
Kevin M (d61acf) — 9/12/2024 @ 10:49 am“BuDuh and NJRob have vastly different writing styles.”
Wouldn’t the “fun” be to create two separate personalities? What are the odds that after weeks of minimal contribution, both just happen to be monitoring the page and decide to interject and scratch each other’s belly at the same time? The “Rob” character never really interacted much with others. He would make bold declarative statements to try and provoke a response…then might declare that responder a liberal or Democrat enabler…harumpf, harumpf. It doesn’t take a lot of creativity to be predictably extreme.
The fact that all three disappeared at the same time (lloyd too) as a campaign season is building is just too darn suspicious. For what reason exactly? What was the argument that created such unanimity of purpose.
The easy availability of generative AI software can also automate new personalities. It’s not rocket science. I think sock puppets until something persuades me otherwise.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 9/12/2024 @ 11:18 amNJRob has been around since the early days of the blog, though.
aphrael (c5dd4b) — 9/12/2024 @ 12:37 pmTrump cries “uncle” on a second debate.
Sad!
Rip Murdock (b434fe) — 9/12/2024 @ 12:43 pmMaybe the multiple personalities are a recent phenomenon. 😉
Rip Murdock (b434fe) — 9/12/2024 @ 12:45 pm@163 Geez fellas, I’m feeling left out. There were three sock puppets, remember??
This about sums up why folks leave. No disrespect, but I think there are some mental problems on display. Oh the deep insights I’ve been missing.
You do realize (or do you?) that anyone here can accuse AJ and lurker of being the same person and there’s just as must evidence to back it up. Lots of +1 and “I co-sign” comments back and forth. Classic sock puppet behavior.
I am really very curious about the “slip last week” AJ_Lurker refers to. Do tell. I fear my comment here is another slip up. Commenting just one day after the other two. Hmmmm…..
lloyd (812e3c) — 9/12/2024 @ 12:57 pmAphrael,
they are gaslighting as usual. I’m fairly certain I know who AJ has been previously. I didn’t want to bother responding because these moby’s get their jollies on just such provocations. They have no interest in actual discussions. It’s why they mention myself and others so much.
They do have mental issues though. Their desire for a response proves as much.
NJRob (f50f18) — 9/12/2024 @ 12:58 pmIf you all stop talking about them they’ll go away.
Time123 (ae7b06) — 9/12/2024 @ 1:06 pm> Trump cries “uncle” on a second debate.
There’s probably very little upside for him in having another debate, and i’m pretty sure his staff want nothing to do with another debate given that he can’t keep himself under control and he damages himself when he goes off on random crazy uncle tangents.
Far better to whip up the base by denouncing ABC as biased and to try to persuade undecideds by attacking Kamala without her actually being present.
aphrael (c5dd4b) — 9/12/2024 @ 1:15 pmIt’s still a loss for Trump. He looks weak, not to the sick-o-fants, but he’s trying to convince 50k people across the country. Plenty in that 10M Trump/Harris sceptics that will see it that way. That’s why it’s pretty certain that she’s got 269 locked up. It’s a race to get the 4th ECV in Maine, or win one of NV/AZ/NC/GA, and she’s going to gain a half point probably across the board and it looks like that actually might flip all 4.
If you live in the other 47 states (in presidential elections DC is equal to 3 other states with 3 EVs each), sorry, but you’re not likely to see much. If you live in the 4, well, condolences.
I know there are already pre-purchased ads in PA/MI/WI and the stations aren’t giving a refund, so good luck watching TV without a foam brick.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 9/12/2024 @ 1:48 pmYou watch TV? Weird.
Time123 (96e473) — 9/12/2024 @ 2:00 pm@172
Right?
Streaming is key.
Few months ago wife wanted to watch the latest Yellowstone and we tried with the cheap rate, which includes commercials. Holy crap it was awful! It’s well worth the premium rate just not to watch the commercials. o.O
They don’t make cool commercials anymore. Or maybe… that’s my inner-GenX rearing its head. 😀
whembly (477db6) — 9/12/2024 @ 2:14 pmWell, not live, but sportsball exists only on TV. Start a game an hour late and you can skip all the intra-play boringness.
On another note. Trump is definitely not going to get sued for this.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 9/12/2024 @ 2:27 pmFilipe (MHRIP) had written something about it there would have been more engagement.
Time123 (67b869) — 9/12/2024 @ 4:15 am
Did I miss something? Is felipe deceased?
norcal (6cc547) — 9/12/2024 @ 2:59 pmFelipe said something about being sick or maybe not having long to live (I didn’t find the original message but just a quote) and participating less.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 9/12/2024 @ 3:10 pmTrump has now said on Truth Social that he is not participating in any more debates. He claims Kamala Harris wants more because she lost (votes?)
Actually she gained but she wants more because she wants more exposure like that. It is actually in Trump’s interest to have more debates because he an do better.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 9/12/2024 @ 3:14 pm107.
Later, his mind cleared or, as he thought about it, his memory came back and he correctly said Virginia.
First mention:
Second mention:
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 9/12/2024 @ 3:24 pmAnother half lie by Trump:
It was thrown out on a technicality, not the merits..
On the grounds that Special Counsel Jack Smith was not legitimately and legally appointed. It’s being appealed.
The same objection applies in the DC election case, but there’s a different case history and a different judge (and circuit) there.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 9/12/2024 @ 3:36 pm@145 My comments like @142 are serious and back them up with facts. What do you think bush and the neo-cons “second pearl harbor” was?
asset (1eb74b) — 9/12/2024 @ 3:44 pmIt’s being reported that Taylor Branch publicly endorsed Harris but not why she did it..
https://www.npr.org/2024/09/10/nx-s1-5107976/taylor-swift-instagram-endorse-kamala-harris
Now this again (the circulation of a particular bit of false information by MAGA) could be a Democratic dirty trick – i.e., feed something into the MAGA smear machine to boomerang-in this case in order to induce Taylor Swift to publicly endorse Harris as she had declined to do.
I’m just wondering about whether there exist double agents in Trump’s camp..
There had been rumors spread she would speak at the Dem convention
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 9/12/2024 @ 3:55 pmTaylor Branch is a man.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/12/2024 @ 4:03 pmMore paranoid speculations. Taylor Swift’s endorsement statement went far beyond the AI issue.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/12/2024 @ 4:11 pmLOL! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 No second bites of that apple!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/12/2024 @ 4:14 pm@173 I just don’t have time between work and kids and kids sports. Gave up cable years ago because 80$/ month was too much for SpongeBob. Just for a couple streaming services and never looked back
Time123 (96e473) — 9/12/2024 @ 4:34 pmYou see, it’s the democrats dirty tactics that trick us poor MAGA rubes to amplify dumb stuff.
If we weren’t so stupid, those geniuses would never be able get us to repeat such obvious lies.
Poor poor us, stop being such meanies to us, we’re delicate snowflakes.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 9/12/2024 @ 4:35 pmJust for kicks and grins, #NeverTrump ought to file a class-action fraud suit against the RNC, claiming that Trump is a sham candidate and that Harris is effectively running unopposed.
Of course, she still might lose.
Kevin M (0fc309) — 9/12/2024 @ 5:15 pmI’m surprised the Trump campaign couldn’t find a disgruntled Biden voter to sue the Democrats for dumping Biden. It would have been entirely frivolous, but when has that stopped their lawyers?
Rip Murdock (b434fe) — 9/12/2024 @ 5:23 pmHey, remember the time that JD Vance said that he’d be one side of the civil war…guess which. Not those damn yankees, coastal elites and all, the southern bourbons this time would be his guys.
I can’t remember, what was the civil war about?
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 9/12/2024 @ 5:33 pm@188 courts have ruled political parties are private organizations and can pretty much make their own rules.
asset (a71528) — 9/13/2024 @ 1:11 amwonder who Laura Loomer is really working for. There could be a lot of possibilities, including people who want to be more further out than Trump in the hopes of gaining financially, but what she says cannot be her ideas.
Or anybody else who wants to see Trump elected.
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 9/13/2024 @ 7:42 amNot necessarily, but he might be better. It would be in his interest to try.
Trump is reported to maintain even privately that he did well but there are signs he doesn’t believe that.
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 9/13/2024 @ 7:46 amSomebody finally checked: (actually this story is from 2 days ago. Hat tip: Reason magazine online)
https://www.wpxi.com/news/local/woman-accused-killing-eating-cat-ohio-is-not-an-immigrant-was-born-canton/CNKQDHSCUVF75HKKPODXURQSXQ/
Her name makes it sound like she has no Haitian ancestry.
Sammy FInkelman (e4ef09) — 9/13/2024 @ 11:29 amThey are now talking about auto accidents two in which people were killed. They are being issued temporary drivers licenses and the driver of a school bus had a license from another country – which is not valid in the United States – and besides you need a better quality of license
People are being urged to jump to false conclusions based on omitted information
Sammy FInkelman (e4ef09) — 9/13/2024 @ 11:32 amTrump came up with a new tax cut today or yesterday: No tax on overtime. I presume this applies only to income tax,
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 9/13/2024 @ 3:38 pmMaybe the eating cats etc thing could be part of a pre-existing Russian disinformation operation that’s been penetrated by people loyal to Democrats and used to their advantage?I
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 9/13/2024 @ 3:41 pmI can’t remember, what was the civil war about?
Northern aggression.
Kevin M (2fc181) — 9/13/2024 @ 3:45 pmTaylor Swift’s endorsement came because of the fake news about her endorsing Trump. Although Dems wanted her to do it, even forming a Swifties for Harris thing the day she was anointed. Taylor Swift did not want to publicize her vote.
,
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 9/13/2024 @ 3:46 pm@188 courts have ruled political parties are private organizations and can pretty much make their own rules.
Not exactly. They cannot have racially-closed primaries, for example.
Kevin M (2fc181) — 9/13/2024 @ 3:46 pmTrump is reconsidering not having a second debate.
The Harris campaign wants one in October.
I was wrong to say that he didn’t rehearse (at all) like Jackie Gleason. The new York Times reported that he was prepped (and did better in the preps than in the actual debate.)
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 9/15/2024 @ 2:20 am149.
Nobody was asking him to do that.
They were asking him to call on all the demonstrators to disperse, and not merely call on them not to attack the police.
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 9/18/2024 @ 3:01 pm
lurker (c23034) — 9/19/2024 @ 6:54 pmtest