Weekend Open Thread
[guest post by Dana]
Let’s go!
First news item
A Republican speaks at the DNC:
How can a party claim to be patriotic if it idolizes a man who tried to overthrow a free and fair election? How can a party claim to stand for liberty if it sees a fight for freedom in Ukraine, an attack pitting tyranny against democracy, a challenge to everything our nation claims to be, and it retreats? It equivocates. It nominates a man who is weirdly obsessed with Putin. And his running mate, who has said, “I don’t care what happens in Ukraine.”
How can a party claim to be conservative when it tarnishes the gift our forebearers fought for?
. . .
Listen, all we’re asked to do is summon the courage to stand up to one weak man.
Second news item
The Taliban’s ongoing quest for “legitimacy” before the world:
Afghanistan’s Taliban rulers have issued a ban on women’s voices and bare faces in public under new laws approved by the supreme leader in efforts to combat vice and promote virtue.
The laws were issued Wednesday after they were approved by supreme leader Hibatullah Akhundzada, a government spokesman said. The Taliban had set up a ministry for the “propagation of virtue and the prevention of vice” after seizing power in 2021.
These obscene, tiny would-be men are successfully removing women from public, leaving only black-shrouded silent ghosts in their midst. I’ve never seen such chickenshit males. They shut down those that they are afraid of, lest the “walking coffins” find the bold courage that the women of Iran have found in the “Woman. Life. Freedom.” protests.
Third news item
Harris warned of the consequences of a second Trump term.
“In many ways, Donald Trump is an unserious man, Harris said.
“But the consequences of putting Donald Trump back in the White House are extremely serious.”
“Just imagine Donald Trump with no guardrails,” she said.
Fourth news item
Yet again exposing their anti-Semitic underpants:
Not a single Jewish or Israeli victim of terror was included in the United Nations' exhibit on international victims of terrorism.
So we have to ask, when it comes to the @UN, do Jews not count? pic.twitter.com/fpZMXP5kb8
— ADL (@ADL) August 23, 2024
Fifth news item
From President Zelensky:
I am grateful to the United States for imposing additional strong sanctions against Russia today.
Nearly 400 sanctions targets in a new US package will further weaken Russia’s ability to wage an aggressive war against Ukraine.
Pressure on the aggressor must be maintained and increased constantly as long as Russia continues its aggression. I thank the U.S. for its leadership in this important effort.
Together with all our partners, all peace-loving nations, we must restore respect to the UN Charter and force Russia to make peace.
Sixth news item
Yep:
If the Republicans had nominated a person who offered minimal lip service to American values, was not a criminal, & didn’t instigate an attack on the Capitol, 80% of Kamala’s speech would’ve been moot.
Seems like nominating someone who couldn’t clear that bar was a mistake.
Seventh news item
Bullets were found in the bodies of the six Israeli hostages retrieved from Gaza this week, the Israeli military and the Hostage Families Forum campaign group said on Thursday.
The military told Reuters it retrieved another four bodies alongside its hostages, presumed to be Hamas militants, and that those bodies did not show signs of bullet wounds.
The comments came a day after U.S. President Joe Biden pressed Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on the urgency of sealing a deal for a truce between Israel and Hamas in Gaza and the release of hostages held by Palestinian militants there…A total of 109 hostages are believed to remain in Gaza. About a third of them are thought to be dead, with the fate of the others unknown.
Eighth news item
Late last year, former President Donald Trump announced his endorsement of car dealership owner Bernie Moreno for Ohio’s Senate seat – elevating an untested candidate who’d never held public office over several other more prominent Republicans.
Two days later, Moreno’s campaign spent about $17,000 at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago resort, and then followed up by spending an additional $79,000 the next month – making him one of the Florida club’s top political spenders.
He wasn’t alone. With glitzy Mar-a-Lago fundraisers, stays at Trump’s hotels, and flights on the former president’s private jet, Republican candidates and political groups are on track to spend more on Trump’s businesses this year than any year since 2016, according to a CNN analysis of federal campaign finance data.
Trump himself has been the biggest spender, both this year and over the last decade. Between his three presidential campaigns, Trump and associated political groups have funneled more than $28 million in campaign donations to his businesses – helping convert the enthusiasm of his political supporters into personal profit.
Other Republicans have followed suit, spending millions at Trump’s properties in an apparent attempt to curry favor with the former president and signal their allegiance to him to GOP voters.
Ninth news item
We are all um, “normal,” like you:
The sight at the Democratic convention on Wednesday night of Tim Walz’s 17-year-old son leaping to his feet, with streaming eyes, a hand to his chest with a cry of “That’s my Dad” was heart piercing.
As the mother of Georgie, a 38-year-old on-the-spectrum son who still lives with me, I recognized him immediately as one of “ours,” a sweet, unfiltered, slightly bewildered-looking young man who wasn’t quite sure what was expected of him in this epic moment of political adulation…
[F]or people who are different and have no support, the world can be bleak. Their loneliness can be agonizing. Some people assume the school days are the hardest, but it’s the years after that are the social desert. Having a friendly, forgiving workplace to go to is critical. It’s often their only taste of community and what makes them such reliable and rewarding employees. The work from home movement has been a killer for people with special needs, often depriving them of the only social connections they have.
Whether on the left or right side of the political aisle, just be kind. It really isn’t that hard.
Tenth news item
The very last sentence says it all:
At the beginning of August, a coalition of bipartisan senators organized a meeting with Sullivan. Sullivan has at various times held meetings with the senators to discuss Ukraine. But during this encounter, the delegation had one, unified message: The administration needs to change its stance now before it is too late, according to a person who was briefed on the meeting.
Their argument was similar to one they and many others, including Ukrainians, have made before. The U.S. should lift all restrictions, they say, because if it doesn’t and Ukraine loses, the administration will be known as the one that didn’t do enough when it could.
That framing has at times angered senior officials in the White House who insist Washington has done more than any other country to help support Kyiv and that it shouldn’t have to risk its own national security for Kyiv. Officials in certain corners of the administration, particularly inside the White House, have told the Ukrainians that the U.S. will eventually want to reset relations with Moscow and lifting the restrictions could upend those efforts.
So now we know why the Biden administration has consistently been slow to provide needed weapons to Ukraine. It’s just another way that the White House doesn’t want to ruffle Moscow’s feathers. At first, it was the fear of escalation with Russia. That myth has been laid to rest, however. Now it’s concern that we won’t be able to re-establish relations with Russia. Unbelievable.
The other possibility is what I warned about, that the White House is propping up a war criminal dictator in the hope of normalizing relations with him. Russia is already falling apart, stop trying to rescue it. Accelerate it and start planning for a brighter post-Putin future.
Have a great weekend.
–Dana
Hello.
Dana (f77db9) — 8/23/2024 @ 9:30 amAbout time:
Rip Murdock (509171) — 8/23/2024 @ 10:17 amRegarding Item 2, wanna know which country is talking the most with the Taliban terrorists?
Paul Montagu (383f45) — 8/23/2024 @ 10:36 amRed China.
“Seems like nominating someone who couldn’t clear that bar was a mistake.”
It’s sad that serious charges were simply brushed off as a partisan witch hunt. This is a problem with right-wing media. This is the problem with a wide swath of GOP politicians, including the most senior ones. Too many are too obsessed with giving the finger and effusing outrage that there’s too little consideration about actual electability or the message to the rest of America.
Trumpism is exhausting. It’s mean; it’s angry; it floods the zone with nonsense. Increasingly, normal people just want it to end…but with many it remains an obsession…a weird hobby. It’s like six degrees of Kevin Bacon twisted to pin everything on liberals and NeverTrump. Exhausting. Tedious.
I wish that globalization anxiety had a serious ambassador…and not a con man. The DEMs figured out that they too could do bumper-sticker policy and make wild promises like Trump. They want this to be about happy people versus angry weird people. It might just work.
I’m glad Rob, BuhDuh, and lloyd are taking some time off. I’m not sure I know three guys who seem more exhausted. It must be nice to turn it off….
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 8/23/2024 @ 11:23 amCoincidence? I think they are the same person. 😏
Rip Murdock (509171) — 8/23/2024 @ 11:59 amAfter getting endorsed by RFK Jr., Trump has now cornered the nutjob voting bloc. Suburban women, schmuburban women.
Paul Montagu (383f45) — 8/23/2024 @ 11:59 amWe’ll see how long it lasts. I’ll bet at least two of the three will show up before the end of the weekend. I wouldn’t be surprised if they are lurking about.
Rip Murdock (509171) — 8/23/2024 @ 12:02 pmDoubtful RFK jr. would have any impact on this election. Though, some polls do show that w/o him, Trump does better.
What did Trump promise RFK for his endorsement? Ambassadorship? HHS secretary?
Or… and you can’t script a VEEP show more outrageously… the DNI/CIA secretary??
whembly (477db6) — 8/23/2024 @ 12:12 pmDamn… watching RFK’s speech on delay…
He’s torching Democrats and the media (BIRM).
whembly (477db6) — 8/23/2024 @ 12:15 pmRegarding Item 2, wanna know which country is talking the most with the Taliban terrorists?
I guess it’s a sign that they truly are a rising power that they want to mess around with these lunatics. I expect one of two things will happen: either China will also get tied up in knots trying to deal with them, or China will be so ruthless that they will just massacre all of them. But frankly I kind of hope that China is the next world power to waste time and resources in that woebegone corner of the globe.
JVW (dd79f9) — 8/23/2024 @ 12:15 pmAs I’ve said in the past, the two have things in common: both are wannabe authoritarians and believe in conspiracy theories (this goes for their hard core supporters too.)
I could see Trump making a deal for the endorsement; he has said he would think about appointing RFKJr. to a Trump Administration position. It would probably be one that doesn’t require Senate confirmation-it would be an embarrassment if the Senate confirmed him for anything.
Since Trump got what he wanted, I also can see Trump welching on any promise. RFKJr. better had received any promises in writing. 🤣🤣🤣
Rip Murdock (509171) — 8/23/2024 @ 12:16 pm“Just imagine Donald Trump with no guardrails,” she said
There would be guardrails, not the least of which would be a hostile press. What I have problems with is the left wing of the Democrat party with no guardrails and a sycophantic press.
We should avoid this; Donald Trump should drop out.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/23/2024 @ 12:16 pmRegarding Item 2, wanna know which country is talking the most with the Taliban terrorists?
Red China.
Hardly surprising, considering their support of North Korea, Zimbabwe, Iran and Russia.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/23/2024 @ 12:18 pmWait…waitwaitwaitwait a minute.
Did I hear this right?
RFK is suspending his campaign from the 10 battleground states (thus removing him from ballot), but his name will remain on the ballot for the rest of the states?
O.o
Ok. That’s devious.
But, how on earth is that legal? If not just working to be a spoiler?
whembly (477db6) — 8/23/2024 @ 12:18 pmA President in their final term can afford to ignore a hostile press.
Rip Murdock (509171) — 8/23/2024 @ 12:20 pmThey want this to be about happy people versus angry weird people. It might just work.
But they are appealing to angry people, too. Just a different sort — those who think the world’s problems are due to capitalism and corporate greed and swear up a storm every time the have to mail the rent check.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/23/2024 @ 12:22 pmA President in their final term can afford to ignore a hostile press.
But his minions in the Congress cannot.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/23/2024 @ 12:23 pmA President in their final term can afford to ignore a hostile press.
A president with a sycophantic press can get away with a lot.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/23/2024 @ 12:24 pm@17
Correct.
Don’t forget about how litigious the left are as well.
whembly (477db6) — 8/23/2024 @ 12:29 pmAssuming Trump keeps his word (a big if), I doubt RFKJr. would be nominated for anything requiring Senate confirmation. The hearings will be brutal.
Rip Murdock (509171) — 8/23/2024 @ 12:30 pmThat assumes his minions would disagree with whatever he does.
Rip Murdock (509171) — 8/23/2024 @ 12:32 pmLike when he said this?
Or when he blamed “US neocons” for Putin’s invasion of Ukraine? The guy is starkers.
Paul Montagu (383f45) — 8/23/2024 @ 12:33 pmAnd we know from the Biden administration’s actions how litigious the right can be. 😏
Rip Murdock (509171) — 8/23/2024 @ 12:34 pmWhich now includes the CDC Director, so I guess that’s out too.
Rip Murdock (509171) — 8/23/2024 @ 12:54 pmRFKJr. fits right in the modern Republican Party-isolationist, conspiracy mongering, and anti-science (particularly when it comes to vaccines).
What’s not to love?
Rip Murdock (509171) — 8/23/2024 @ 1:00 pmRelated to this thread…
I have a friend from high school, who recently got back in touch with me after many decades. She was always conservative, married to an airforce veteran, and works with veterans. She is a wonderful person, both then and now.
She despises Trump’s personality and lack of self control. I know how that feels.
However, she has gone waaaaay around the bend in the other direction, consistently posting fawning defenses of Biden and now Harris…and always tagging her husband, who emphatically does not believe as she does. His own posts, where he does not tag her, and pretty right wing.
I mean, I know from personal conversations that she really disliked Biden, and now she posts the “Thank you, Joe” videos and claimed the he was the greatest President of her lifetime.
It’s heartbreaking to me. Why antagonize someone you have been with for decades, with whom you have children?
I mean, she can believe what she likes, vote as she likes. Of course. But the tagging of her husband with each political post really does not have a good look.
And this is why I detest politics, and politicians. I mean, it’s fine to dislike Trump and not want to vote for him. I’m in agreement there. Going all in the other direction is super strange, but okay.
But clearly using your own beliefs to antagonize your spouse? That I do not get.
Ugh. Politics.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 8/23/2024 @ 1:16 pmSimon Jester (c8876d) — 8/23/2024 @ 1:16 pm
She probably cannot stand him having a different opinion than hers on this important matter. Much more than a stranger.
More of a mystery would be her echoing anything she hears from the Democratic campaign.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 8/23/2024 @ 1:23 pmAssuming Trump keeps his word (a big if), I doubt RFKJr. would be nominated for anything requiring Senate confirmation. The hearings will be brutal.
Trump could name him a “Badwill Ambassador” to Big Pharma.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/23/2024 @ 1:27 pmBut clearly using your own beliefs to antagonize your spouse? That I do not get.
He could block her. Heh. What I take from this is that hubby is for Trump and she is upset about that.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/23/2024 @ 1:29 pmThe reason he “suspends” his campaign rather than giving it up is legal so he can continue to raise money. Maybe he also keeps is Secret Service protection that way or is that decided on an overall basis?.
And every state election is a separate election.
RFK Jr will make a speech at a Trump rally
Let’s see what he’s doing: He seems to be trying to gain popular votes – if he takes votes from rump (and who he takes more votes from probably depends on the state) he’s causing Trump to be more likely to lose the popular vote.
I think that in some states he may not be able to remove his name from the ballot. I think he has the endorsement of an existing third party in Michigan
https://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/08/23/robert-f-kennedy-rfk-jr-suspends-campaign-michigan-ballot/74916728007
This last sentence looks like they left something out.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 8/23/2024 @ 1:50 pm“I think they are the same person.”
Yeah, it’s a bit suspicious that they suddenly wanted to coordinate being observers. I’ve seen enough performance art on the internet to not put it outside the realm of possibility. I mean DCSCA defined attention seeking!
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 8/23/2024 @ 2:00 pmThe Natural Law Party is a great fit with RFK Jr.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/23/2024 @ 2:04 pmI’ve got a friend who works out at the same Venice, CA gym that RFKJr uses. I’ve gotta ask what reception he gets in hard-blue Venice. Of course the Terminator works out there too, so maybe politics are off-limits.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/23/2024 @ 2:07 pm“But they are appealing to angry people, too. Just a different sort”
I agree with this. It’s why I could only watch snippets of the DNC convention…before I quickly remembered why I wasn’t a Democrat. Now granted, this convention was probably the most patriotic and “happy” then I’ve ever seen from the DNC. They will always pander to minorities, unions, environmentalists, gays, and capitalist-skepticals. I do recall a DNC convention where the Boy Scouts got boo’ed. This wasn’t that.
Still, there’s an inescapable hopefulness about Harris’ campaign (again, they made this conscientious decision because immigration, inflation, and crime put them on the defensive)…and it’s a good read to think people are starving for optimism.
I think they understand that their mandate is not to eviscerate the filibuster or go rogue. They saw how Obamacare galvanized the GOP and how Reid’s change of the filibuster for judges got them a Roe reversal. It would be dumb politics to try and ram some dumb program through…otherwise, why wouldn’t Biden have attempted it? Sure, Harris is more liberal but she also has a second term to consider…though the blowback is a bigger issue. Yes Obamacare got ensconced…but it WAS passed with a supermajority….not a filibuster workaround, so the situation is different.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 8/23/2024 @ 2:16 pmAre their any holocaust museums in Israel for other holocaust victims like we have in U.S. to educate? Like for native americans, armenians, uganda and others I should know about. Fourth Item If their are it would strengthen adl case. Likud extremists and corrupt political hacks like netanhayu play into the anti-Israel hand.
asset (1ac741) — 8/23/2024 @ 2:32 pmotherwise, why wouldn’t Biden have attempted it?
They only had 48 votes to kill the filibuster.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/23/2024 @ 2:45 pmAre their any holocaust museums in Israel for other holocaust victims like we have in U.S. to educate?
Now about for Ukrainians and other ethnic minorities killed by Stalin? Or Cambodians? Or the intellectuals killed by Mao’s Red Brigades?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/23/2024 @ 2:47 pm@36
And there won’t be a Manchin – Sinema to buck their own party.
Just goes to show, that the GOP must have the majority of the House or a GOP president.
whembly (477db6) — 8/23/2024 @ 3:05 pm@30
Okay, that makes a lot of sense.
whembly (477db6) — 8/23/2024 @ 3:07 pmThe last in the list of findings from a recent poll of British Muslims, done by the Henry Jackson Society, may be the most troubling:
As I understand it, British Muslims are likely to be from Pakistan, or descended from Pakistanis.
(Incidentally, when Brits say “Asian”, they almost always mean south Asians from India and Pakistan, rather than east Asians (Japanese, Chinese, and Koreans) as Americans commmonly do.)
Jim Miller (d2dc12) — 8/23/2024 @ 3:10 pmRe: China and the Taliban:
There are a couple of reasons why the Chinese are involved in Afghanistan. First, it’s an extremely mineral rich country with an estimated total value of $1T:
Secondly, they want to prevent Afghanistan from becoming a safe haven for Uyghur separatists.
Since the Chinese don’t care how a country treats its citizens, whatever the Taliban do to their women, for example, isn’t their problem.
Rip Murdock (7cd03c) — 8/23/2024 @ 3:16 pmIt’s just poorly worded. The phrase “ Michigan law states” is linked to the Michigan law.
Rip Murdock (7cd03c) — 8/23/2024 @ 3:21 pmThere are a couple of reasons why the Chinese are involved in Afghanistan. First, it’s an extremely mineral rich country with an estimated total value of $1T:
Rip Murdock (7cd03c) — 8/23/2024 @ 3:16 pm
This is interesting. I recall reading somewhere that Nevada has a higher concentration of mountains than any other country in the world, except for Afghanistan.
Both places are mineral rich. Mining is huge in Nevada. There is even a county called Mineral County.
Perhaps there is something about mountainous regions that results in an abundance of minerals.
norcal (5686d8) — 8/23/2024 @ 3:25 pmDonald Trump reveals he doesn’t want intelligence briefings so he can’t be accused of leaking classified information.
Of course. Also, who signed the agreement to withdraw from Afghanistan?
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/23/2024 @ 3:30 pmI’ve just added a 10th news item to post. Amazingly, the lede is buried at the very end of the report.
Dana (d1d7bd) — 8/23/2024 @ 3:35 pmI’m glad Rob, BuhDuh, and lloyd are taking some time off. I’m not sure I know three guys who seem more exhausted. It must be nice to turn it off….
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 8/23/2024 @ 11:23 am
Coincidence? I think they are the same person. 😏
Rip Murdock (509171) — 8/23/2024 @ 11:59 am
If they are the same person, then somebody is going to a lot of effort to change how they write, because Rob’s style is very different than the other two.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this were the case, however. I have sometimes wondered if Rob’s comments are part of some act. They strike me as more caricature than genuine.
Rob plays the same note over and over. If he is ever shown to be wrong, there is no acknowledgement or concession. It’s just on to the next political outrage.
norcal (5686d8) — 8/23/2024 @ 3:38 pmMultiple personalities.
Rip Murdock (7cd03c) — 8/23/2024 @ 4:00 pmWhy don’t you save this for when they’re here?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/23/2024 @ 4:28 pmThey are not the same person at all. Y’all are ridiculous!
I feel confident I could, given a set of 3 random posts by one of them tell you who wrote it without seeing their names.
They all support Trump but are totally different outside of that.
Nate (cfb326) — 8/23/2024 @ 4:29 pmNate (cfb326) — 8/23/2024 @ 4:29 pm
Maybe so, but I’d still wager Rob is doing some kind of act. He’s so over-the-top and Manichean that it has to be a caricature.
norcal (5686d8) — 8/23/2024 @ 5:03 pmSheesh-doesn’t anyone recognize the sarcasm in post 5? I even included an emoji to suggest it was a joke.
Rip Murdock (7cd03c) — 8/23/2024 @ 5:06 pmSee also post 7.
Rip Murdock (7cd03c) — 8/23/2024 @ 5:10 pmTenth News Item:
It has always been like that. Armand Hammer and the Bolsheviks; Wandel durch Handel (change through trade) in the 1970s in Europe; Bush 43 and Putin’s eyes; Secretary of State Hillary and the reset button; Obama and “the Cold War has called”.
There are a lot of people who don’t see Russia as a crisis but as an opportunity and it should not be a surprise that they have Biden’s ear as well the other ears before his.
nk (c563c6) — 8/23/2024 @ 5:12 pmBecause the fact that BuhDuh, NJRob, and lloyd are all offline at the same time is funny; but when they here at the same time its not.
Rip Murdock (7cd03c) — 8/23/2024 @ 5:18 pmAnd it loses its humor when you have to explain the joke.
Rip Murdock (7cd03c) — 8/23/2024 @ 5:20 pmI hate to say this, but since others have brought up the subject, I’ll confess that I have begun to wonder whether one of the three is actually a “bot”.
Jim Miller (d2dc12) — 8/23/2024 @ 5:27 pm@Kevin@12 I don’t understand why you think a hostile press would be any kind of guardrail at all. He doesn’t care what the mainstream press says. His voters don’t care. Republicans in the Senate and house wouldn’t care because Trump can make or break a career for them. A hostile press is useless in Trump’s case.
Nic (120c94) — 8/23/2024 @ 5:41 pmMirror, mirror on the wall, who had the highest Nielsen ratings of them all?:
Pssst: Don’t tell Donald.
Rip Murdock (7cd03c) — 8/23/2024 @ 5:54 pm👍
Rip Murdock (7cd03c) — 8/23/2024 @ 5:56 pmI wonder if that’s how it started with George and Kellyann Conway. The little pokes at first, like tagging them. But then, perhaps, it eggs on all the frustration or dissatisfaction they’ve been sitting on for a while . Then things ratchet up a notch, etc.
I think it would be difficult to live with someone who has believed in certain principles and held consistent views on matters only to suddenly turn in the other direction.
Dana (47f000) — 8/23/2024 @ 6:10 pmThe US and NATO can’t (really won’t) provide what Ukraine really needs to win the war: manpower. Russia has a much larger population than Ukraine. Russia can simply wait until Ukraine runs out of soldiers to fight.
Rip Murdock (7cd03c) — 8/23/2024 @ 6:28 pmI think they understand that their mandate is not to eviscerate the filibuster or go rogue. They saw how Obamacare galvanized the GOP and how Reid’s change of the filibuster for judges got them a Roe reversal. It would be dumb politics to try and ram some dumb program through…otherwise, why wouldn’t Biden have attempted it? Sure, Harris is more liberal but she also has a second term to consider…though the blowback is a bigger issue.
Well, they say different:
The Senate Stakes on the Filibuster
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/23/2024 @ 8:01 pmI don’t understand why you think a hostile press would be any kind of guardrail at all.
It would keep the public aware of what he was doing and that sizable blocs disapproved. Contrast that with a Harris presidency, with the same press fawning over her every move.
How much fack-checking did you see of the DNC?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/23/2024 @ 8:07 pmYou should address my point that nuking the filibuster will come by to bite the nuker….more so with a razor thin majority. It’s just not smart.
AJ_Liberty (bdbec3) — 8/23/2024 @ 8:13 pm@Kevin@63 You are a sane person and a voter and you have decided that Kamala’s non-progress at the border and her roadblock on new guns in CA makes her worse than a man who sent a violent mob to attack the US legislature. Why do you think the press would make any difference? You are the voting block that might conceivably disapprove, you know what happened, you paid attention to what was going on in his administration, and you’ve decided his behavior doesn’t matter. Why would the press telling people be different this time? Press coverage hasn’t made a difference.
Nic (120c94) — 8/23/2024 @ 9:55 pm1980 populations
Afghanistan: 15.5 million
USSR: 264.5 million
1970 populations
Paul Montagu (63a68f) — 8/23/2024 @ 10:25 pmNorth Vietnam: 18.5 million
USA: 203.4 million
Yeah, @66. I was thinking of Afghanistan. Can Russia win before Russian women get tired of losing sons and husbands? What does winning even look like? Beating an army in the field is one thing; occupying territory is another.
JRH (489761) — 8/23/2024 @ 11:04 pmIf the Kamala campaign were smart, they’d take a page from Lee Atwood (who tried to make Willie Horton Dukakis’ running mate, politically speaking) and present RFK Jr. as Trump’s true running mate. The Batsh-t Nutter ticket as it were.
Paul Montagu (63a68f) — 8/23/2024 @ 11:16 pmShows how much you know, wiseguy. I’m BuDuh, lloyd and NJRob. I pwned you all!
(I’m also Popehat, Laura Loomer, and a finalist at American Ninja Warrior.)
lurker (c23034) — 8/23/2024 @ 11:47 pmYou should address my point that nuking the filibuster will come by to bite the nuker….more so with a razor thin majority. It’s just not smart.
I totally agree. But the fool’s gonna do it and in the short term it would get ugly.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/23/2024 @ 11:49 pm@68. Lee Atwater. (That’s me too.)
lurker (c23034) — 8/23/2024 @ 11:50 pmyou have decided that Kamala’s non-progress at the border and her roadblock on new guns in CA makes her worse than a man who sent a violent mob to attack the US legislature.
IF it were only that. Her wish list is to tax capital gains as regular income, impose a wealth tax on the rich and saddle corporations with intrusive “profit” controls. She has to idiocy to claim that the recent inflation was “corporate greed” instead of the normal market response to printing-press money.
She has a history of hostility to gun owners and political advocates on the right, to the point of demanding right-leaning non-profits to disclose their donor lists, which her office then “accidentally” posted to the Internet. As AG in California she got to write the ballot and petition summaries for all initiatives and often put pejorative language in ones she didn’t like, making the initiative process largely closed to the Right.
I could go on. There is not one thing she does or says that redeems her.
My other choice is Trump. I have said that this is a terrible, no good, awful election. I have not ever voted for Donald Trump, primary or general, but Harris is so awful that he might be less awful.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/24/2024 @ 12:00 amAnd, Nic, the whole J6 thing has been stated endlessly. But the Senate did not convict, the DoJ sat on its hands for 3 years instead of filing charges (possibly to create this exact situation) and the Supremes chose not to enforce the 14th Amendment. Please, try a different argument.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/24/2024 @ 12:03 amPriceless.
lurker (c23034) — 8/24/2024 @ 3:14 am@73,Nic’s comment was about the Press. Why did you choose to ignore it and take a tangent?
And what a weird tangent. None of what you wrote implies Trump’s behavior shouldn’t matter. For a logic guy, yikes.
Just as Biden should have given a public accounting for the dreadful Afghanistan pull out, Trump owed the country a detailed accounting for the J6 audacity. But that requires honesty and seriousness. The GOP politicians should have been front and center requiring it. Instead, they hid behind a weak argument that they could not convict once he had left office. The GOP voters should have held Trump in contempt, yet quickly got bored with J6 and went back to being angry and hating on liberals. The ledger isn’t balanced.
This is moral confusion. Trump must lose to break this trance. Moral confusion will just lead to more and worse behavior. Trump has learned no lesson. If anything, he’s emboldened. He has de facto immunity in his mind. I understand this bores you and you would rather imagine a parade of horribles coming from Harris. She is undoubtedly difficult for any conservative to vote for….but she’s not a moral mess that has led her party into a moral quagmire. Trump losing is about giving an impetus to the GOP to change. Trump winning will just cause the madness to drag on. Yank the frickin’ bandaid….
AJ_Liberty (bdbec3) — 8/24/2024 @ 3:48 amPerhaps I should have been more specific. Ukraine doesn’t have an unlimited supply of military age men to fight, but Russia (at least until the Kursk incursion) hasn’t been using the regular army in its “special military operation,” they have mostly been contract troops. Without troops from the West, Ukraine will never be able to recover all their lost territory.
Both the USSR and the US failed to bring the full brunt of their armed forces upon their respective enemies in Afghanistan and North Vietnam. In particular, the US failed to “dissuade” the USSR and China from their involvement in supporting North Vietnam.
Rip Murdock (7cd03c) — 8/24/2024 @ 7:45 amBoth of which Russia is successfully doing right now. Like Western support of Ukraine, Putin is managing expectations on his side, by using contract soldiers (like convicts) rather than the regular army. Putin could end this war immediately on his terms, but his fear of Western reaction is preventing him from doing so.
Rip Murdock (7cd03c) — 8/24/2024 @ 7:51 amThen elect a Republican House and/or Senate. All of her “wish list” would need to go through Congress and the courts, none of which would be inclined to pass any of it.
Rip Murdock (7cd03c) — 8/24/2024 @ 7:57 amBad taste.
Rip Murdock (ef0954) — 8/24/2024 @ 7:58 amDomestic political opinion in Russia doesn’t count for much-if Russian mothers wives get too noisy there’s always Siberia.
Out of sight, out of mind.
Rip Murdock (7cd03c) — 8/24/2024 @ 8:07 amI think Putin’s control of the situation is more tenuous than we know. Putin has not only to fear Western reaction but his own generals and mercenaries, who will exploit any weakness they sense to try to get some power of their own. We saw how close Yevgeny Prigozhin got to Moscow. And he fears the rank and file who grumble and mutter wondering why doesn’t he just end this thing?
And for their part the Ukrainians like the Afghanis are defending their own back yards, so they have an investment the conscripts don’t.
Putin has incentive to end this thing and make peace on terms favorable to the Ukrainians before being utterly embarassed and/or deposed.
JRH (489761) — 8/24/2024 @ 8:18 amWishful thinking. If Putin walks back his terms, and negotiated terms favorable to Ukraine, he certainly would be deposed.
What are Putin’s incentives to concede to Ukraine-especially since Russia is advancing?
Rip Murdock (7cd03c) — 8/24/2024 @ 8:27 amAs you say, Putin’s “ generals and mercenaries, who will exploit any weakness they sense to try to get some power of their own.”
How would conceding favorable terms to Ukraine prevent that-to do so would certainly show weakness.
Rip Murdock (7cd03c) — 8/24/2024 @ 8:30 amPutin not only expects Ukraine to concede defeat, but also the West by refusing to admit Ukraine into NATO, ending sanctions, and sign international agreements memorializing his conquests.
Rip Murdock (7cd03c) — 8/24/2024 @ 8:38 amUnlikely to happen over the next 70 odd days. The events of January 6th and Trump’s involvement is his defining legacy. The J6 argument against Trump isn’t constrained by what Congress, the DOJ, and the courts did or didn’t do.
Get used to it.
Rip Murdock (7cd03c) — 8/24/2024 @ 9:00 am@83. Indeed, and this is why I think he faces a quandary. He can’t let the war go indefinitely, and also can’t appear to be beaten. And he can’t appear to show ineptitude. The incursion into Kursk caught the Russians flatfooted and goes against Putin’s interests in all of these areas. Simply put Ukraine has shown itself to be much more tenacious and resourceful than Putin banked on (IMO).
JRH (489761) — 8/24/2024 @ 9:04 amThat’s an opinion and prediction, but three weeks ago practically no one predicted that Ukraine would take and hold territory in Russia.
One, Putin has been hesitant to take the next step–a full mobilization–because he’s been selling his people the scam that it’s a “special military operation”, based on a lie that the country is filled with Nazis.
He’s not going to go to a full mobilization, IMO, because it would send a message of weakness and losing, and a full mobilization would mean he’ll be pressing white-skinned Russians from Moscow and St. Petersburg into fighting his illegitimate war, not just brown-skinned Russians in the more remote rural areas, which is what he’s been doing.
Sure, he won a sham election, but he had to jail and/or murder his opposition to secure victory. Personally, I think he’s scared that his own people (and perhaps a few of his generals) will turn on him if he pushes too far.
Two, this war is already like no other, because drone warfare is playing such a prominent role and has changed the dynamic. The best drones–the best technology–is what will win this war, IMO, and we have the technology and the Ukrainians have the inventiveness. Instead of storming the barricades WW1 style, FPV-operated drones will picking off mobiks and tanks and artillery, and that’s how they can reclaim conquered territory.
Paul Montagu (63a68f) — 8/24/2024 @ 9:04 amI like this Bee article better…
Paul Montagu (63a68f) — 8/24/2024 @ 9:18 am“I don’t care what happens in Ukraine” is at least honest. During the Ukrainian ammunition shortage Biden blamed Republicans-for holding up an aid bill- which was fair, but Biden did not release aid already approved, or discretionary aid that requires no approval. He cynically cost lives in Ukraine for political reasons. I’d much rather argue with Trump or JD Vance over their straightforward position than a political weasel like Biden puppetmaster-Ukraine, Jake Sullivan
steveg (e8a532) — 8/24/2024 @ 9:19 amI don’t get the whole, well Trump didn’t get successfully impeached, so oh well.
He did the thing, that the GOP said it was horrible, then didn’t convict, that doesn’t make it OK. I didn’t vote to not convict, I can vote to not enable him again.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/24/2024 @ 9:28 amKevin, none of this changes what Trump did. And you know that. Telling people to find a different argument is to attempt to minimize the severity, illegality, and unethical behavior of the former president. It should always be of importance: then, now, and in the future. Especially when people are deciding whether to re-elect him. This is a man who literally attempted to steal the votes of Americans to serve his own self-serving needs. He demonstrated that he could care less about the American people, their votes, or a peaceful transfer of power. He demonstrated that he had absolutely no respect for the rule of law, traditions, or even for his own vice-president. This is not chump change. Under the umbrella of Jan. 6 are a myriad of actions by Trump which, when added up, show his contempt for voters and the illegal lengths he was willing to go to to make sure he “won” the election. His actions on Jan. 6, and everything surrounding it, are enough for many Republicans to clearly see the dangers of another Trump presidency, thus their vote for Harris. This despite not necessarily liking her or disagreements over policy, etc.
Stop trying to push this aside and make people talk about something else. Just because you don’t think Jan. 6 was a big enough deal to not see Trump as the greater danger (as opposed to Harris), doesn’t mean that others don’t. We recognize the full implications of a corrupt individual returning to the position with his hands on the levers of power. Especially now with the benefit of the SC ruling on immunity. Others see his blatant corruption and illegal behavior on and surrounding Jan. 6 as a big enough threat to democracy to oppose him at all costs,
Dana (b8d0b9) — 8/24/2024 @ 9:39 amIt’s funny how people who get invested in Trump start downtalking his attempted coup and start doomsaying that the US will turn into Venezuela if a Dem gets elected, despite the previous two Dem presidents not taking us there.
Paul Montagu (63a68f) — 8/24/2024 @ 9:43 amJust don’t do it, don’t get politically or emotionally or psychologically invested in the guy with your vote.
@73,Nic’s comment was about the Press. Why did you choose to ignore it and take a tangent?
And what a weird tangent. None of what you wrote implies Trump’s behavior shouldn’t matter. For a logic guy, yikes.
More than half of Nic’s comment was devoted to that “tangent.” Nowhere did I say that Trump’s behavior does not matter, just that it is not everything.
Harris’s behavior while in office, her platform today, and her willingness to kick over OTHER pillars of our democracy (e.g. the Supreme Court, the Electoral College and the filibuster) matter, too. Her disdain for the 2nd Amendment is also well known, having said in the past that the President could just order the guns rounded up. And we have yet to hear her talk about the border/immigration issues in any meaningful way.
Again, let me say that this is a choice between to terrible terrible candidates. To ask me why I support Trump (when “am considering” is closer to it) given his J6 behavior elicits a response that mentions that seemingly decisive issue, which is “to me it is not decisive.”
If I look at things on the basis of policy, Trump wins hands down. J6 is a major problem, as is Trump himself, but even from the frying pan, the fire looks awfully hot.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/24/2024 @ 9:58 amThis is moral confusion. Trump must lose to break this trance.
I get it that you view J6 as decisive. Fine. Why didn’t Biden? He could have brought charges in 2021, not 2023. Why did he risk Trump being his opponent?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/24/2024 @ 10:03 amThen elect a Republican House and/or Senate. All of her “wish list” would need to go through Congress and the courts, none of which would be inclined to pass any of it.
That’s what they said about Obama. Didn’t work. Then they said the Supreme Court would stop Obamacare. Didn’t work.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/24/2024 @ 10:04 amHarris may want to overturn the filibuster (a Senate rule) but she has no authority to do so on her own; nor does she have any authority on her own to make changes to the Electoral College (constitutional amendment) or the Supreme Court (Congressional action or constitutional amendment). She also has no authority to ban any firearms; any action would be overturned by the Supreme Court.
Straw men.
Rip Murdock (7cd03c) — 8/24/2024 @ 10:05 amI don’t get the whole, well Trump didn’t get successfully impeached, so oh well.
The point is this: As the sign says “YOU ARE HERE.” You vote in the election with the candidates you have, not the ones you wish you have. And neither one of them should be near power. But pick one.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/24/2024 @ 10:06 amA different Congress and Supreme Court than today.
Rip Murdock (7cd03c) — 8/24/2024 @ 10:07 amBe a double hater and pick neither.
Rip Murdock (7cd03c) — 8/24/2024 @ 10:08 amAt the expense of Russia’s advance in the Donbas, placing Ukraine’s logistic hub at Pokrovsk. Reportedly, they are only 6 miles away.
The US and Ukraine may have the better technology, but Russia has the bigger missiles.
Rip Murdock (7cd03c) — 8/24/2024 @ 10:19 amA President Trump has already shown us the corrupt lengths he is willing to go to get his way. Not his party’s agenda, but to simply get his *own* way. We witnessed it firsthand.
Harris has not yet been the President. We have not seen her in action, nor the lengths that she will be willing to go to push her party’s agenda.
One is definitely more dangerous than the other. And that is the individual that has been in the Oval and the individual whose behavior we witnessed with our own eyes and heard with our own ears.
Dana (95356c) — 8/24/2024 @ 10:27 am“If I look at things on the basis of policy, Trump wins hands down.”
As Rip said, it sounds like if you work to get a Republican Senate, all of your concerns about Harris dissipate to Executive Orders…which all have a shelf life. Most liberal over-reach through EO’s would just mobilize a stiff electoral reaction at the midterms. The country can survive Harris.
Why pick someone unhinged, undisciplined, with a chip on his shoulder that already failed to “solve” the immigration problem and only offers tariffs as a solution to globalization? With good people like Sessions, Mattis, Kelly, Bolton, and Esper ground down in the first term…and with the lesson of Pence being loyalty over all, who do you envision constraining Trump’s worst impulses and having the discipline to enact even a conservatish agenda? Trump is about the biggest gamble for a party that could have otherwise run a warm body and would be winning comfortably.
The GOP is wrong to nominate Trump. The Democrats are manufacturing a candidate from in my view a near-empty suit. I agree it’s awful but Harris + GOP Senate is the least awful result.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 8/24/2024 @ 10:34 am@Kevin@73 The Senate not convicting is part of my point. We all saw what happened, the press very much covered it, Trump sent people to attack them specifically. And they still couldn’t overcome their fear/partisanship/whatever to convict him. Why would something else make them overcome it? There is nothing that would reign Trump in.
Nic (120c94) — 8/24/2024 @ 10:49 am“If they are the same person, then somebody is going to a lot of effort to change how they write, because Rob’s style is very different than the other two.”
There are certainly different personalities, but this would be the draw of a performance artist…perhaps even aided with Generative AI to help get the tone and style captured. Sock Puppetry to troll a web site and chase people down rabbit holes is legendary….especially at a small web site with a dozen or so regular commenters.
This IS the site that brought us jukeboxgrad many years ago, DCSCA more recently, and the inimitable Narcisco and Col Haiku in between. I won’t argue they were all socket puppets, though it’s always a possibility. Here, it’s just weird that an awkward axis-of-consensus was hurriedly assembled…without any precipitating event or grievance…where all three would simultaneously disappear…after extensive and persistent posting. The odds just argue against it. Again, it would be easy to debunk this conspiracy….
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 8/24/2024 @ 10:53 amThe September 10th debate should be interesting. I expect that it will be a cross between the 2016 debate between Trump and Clinton and the first Trump-Biden debate in 2020.
Given the truncated campaign schedule, I also expect that it will be the only debate between Trump and Harris.
Rip Murdock (7cd03c) — 8/24/2024 @ 11:31 am91:
Dana, with all respect, bang a different drum. That was what Biden planned to ride to victory on and it wasn’t convincing to the majority. It still isn’t.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/24/2024 @ 11:49 amStop trying to push this aside and make people talk about something else. Just because you don’t think Jan. 6 was a big enough deal to not see Trump as the greater danger (as opposed to Harris), doesn’t mean that others don’t.
I’m not trying to argue things as others see them.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/24/2024 @ 11:50 amThe GOP is wrong to nominate Trump. The Democrats are manufacturing a candidate from in my view a near-empty suit. I agree it’s awful but Harris + GOP Senate is the least awful result.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/24/2024 @ 11:50 amThe GOP is wrong to nominate Trump. The Democrats are manufacturing a candidate from in my view a near-empty suit. I agree it’s awful but Harris + GOP Senate is the least awful result.
wrong button.
That may be the least awful result, but the most awful result may be Harris + Dem Congress. And that seems to hinge on the Montana Senate seat which neither of us has any say in.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/24/2024 @ 11:52 amWe’ll see if it works with a different candidate, but given that J6 is Trump’s legacy to the country, it’s hard to avoid.
Rip Murdock (7cd03c) — 8/24/2024 @ 12:07 pmKevin M should provide a cogent argument as to why J6 wasn’t as bad as all that without hand waving possible Harris policies as the excuse.
Rip Murdock (7cd03c) — 8/24/2024 @ 12:13 pmThe January 6th argument against Donald Trump’s reelection isn’t going away no matter what you say, so I predict you will be disappointed and frustrated over the next 70 odd days.
Rip Murdock (7cd03c) — 8/24/2024 @ 12:33 pm(I will note first that I am totally good with split government)
I don’t think the worst case is Harrs + Dem legislature and here’s why:
Harris has little to no effect on who voters vote for at a local level. She can’t make or break anyone’s career and so her opinions don’t really matter and the Congresspeople and Senators are still only responsible to the actual opinions of their constituents and nobody is basing their opinions entirely (or at all) on the rhetoric of Kamala Harris. Most Democratic constituencies are kind of moderate to mid-level liberal (barring certain specific cases like NYC, King County WA, Marin county CA, whatever area of LA that keeps electing Maxine Waters) so very few legislators are going to be Crazy Liberal. Policy would be more bottom-up because they would be more beholden to people with their own opinions.
OTOH, a lot of the people who vote for Trump are Trump Voters, right now they are specifically in it for him (if he gets out of the way at some point, I think they will likely return to being more regular voters in the future). In a lot of cases their opinions seem very heavily influenced by Trump himself and so if it were a Trump presidency with an R leg is both houses, we’d be getting very specifically top-down legislation based solely on Trump’s whims of the moment. And he’s crazy.
Nic (120c94) — 8/24/2024 @ 1:02 pmI think that people look only at the Trump cultists and do not realize that the populist left now controls the Democrat party apparatus. If you don’t think there is a cult building there, go read the last week’s news stories in the WaPo, NYT, LAT or what Drudge chooses to show (currently bashing RFK Jr for his apostasy).
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/24/2024 @ 1:59 pmThe January 6th argument against Donald Trump’s reelection isn’t going away no matter what you say, so I predict you will be disappointed and frustrated over the next 70 odd days.
I did not say it will. I said it will convince no one that it has not already convinced. As such it is just self-satisfaction to continue banging that drum.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/24/2024 @ 2:01 pm@Kevin@114 The people on the Dem side of things who are like that hitched their wagon to Bernie and failed. Twice. They aren’t in control of the party apparatus at all and have been very vocally whiny about it.
Nic (120c94) — 8/24/2024 @ 2:49 pmDonnie does not deserve a cookie.
nk (fced76) — 8/24/2024 @ 3:45 pmWhat a sad commentary on the electorate.
Patterico (2ce805) — 8/24/2024 @ 3:48 pmSadly, you will still hear it.
Rip Murdock (8b1d32) — 8/24/2024 @ 4:23 pmDo you really think any of them were? I may be overly-credulous, but I don’t see it. Why? What’s the payoff?, I mean, of course I get why some people, nefarious actors, even governments, might want to boost their influence by multiplying their voices. But if you’re going to spend the time and energy necessary to create and maintain alternative personae, keep all the lies straight, etc, wouldn’t you do it on Twitter or Instagram, where the reach is orders of magnitude larger? Why here?
lurker (c23034) — 8/24/2024 @ 4:28 pmI agree. That is weird. But I’ll still take coincidence over conspiracy. (Well, not actually a “conspiracy” if the puppet master is only one person, but you know what I mean.)
lurker (c23034) — 8/24/2024 @ 4:30 pmHow?
One last question. If BuDuh, lloyd and NJRob were indeed sock puppets, which real commenter would you guess is pulling the strings? I can think of some funny candidates, but I’ll keep them to myself.
lurker (c23034) — 8/24/2024 @ 4:34 pmOne piping up might do it. My suspicion is, however, that they will be gone for about a week. I guess we’ll see…there was a slip last week that aroused my suspicion before the abrupt departure.
AJ_Liberty (b9d17e) — 8/24/2024 @ 5:13 pmAw, fer crying out loud! Is Bu Duh right after all? Is this some kind of kaffeeklatsch where we gossip about the ones who don’t go to our shul when they’re not here?
Whose turn was it to bring the strudel?
nk (aa21c1) — 8/24/2024 @ 5:35 pmBuDuh, in what I suspect was a projection of his own tribalism, predicted we’d prey on each other, not that we’d gossip. If you want to call this cordial disagreement about sock-puppetry the latter, I won’t argue. But it certainly isn’t the former.
My only complaint is that now I want strudel. Thanks for that.
lurker (c23034) — 8/24/2024 @ 6:08 pmFor some reason that reminded me of an old Jewish joke. It isn’t perfectly apposite, but close enough. Anyway, it’s in the first paragraph here. To which I’ll just add, if you read the rest of the article, I’ve eaten at every one of the old delis mentioned in all three states, some of them more times than I can even wildly approximate. Inexplicably, my cholesterol is fine. All but one are now gone, and that makes me sad. Hungry and sad.
lurker (c23034) — 8/24/2024 @ 6:44 pmKevin M should provide a cogent argument as to why J6 wasn’t as bad as all that without hand waving possible Harris policies as the excuse.
Since you require me to prove what Harris will do, rather than simply refer to her past statements and actions, I am not going to play that game.
Nor will I minimize what Trump did. If there is anything I hate most about this election it is that the defender of what is left of Republicanism is Donald effing Trump. You will note that I don’t argue that he’d be a good President and I gave good money in my retirement to his only Republican opponent. But I don’t have to show that he’d be good, just that I think that he’d be less bad.
I’ll turn the tables on you though: if it were not for J6, would you still be favoring Harris?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/24/2024 @ 6:45 pmThey aren’t in control of the party apparatus at all and have been very vocally whiny about it.
And then suddenly lightning hits and they’re much happier.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/24/2024 @ 6:48 pmSorry, but in case I get fact-checked, that should read “all but one of the delis mentioned in New York are now gone. Some of the ones in L.A. are still around, and Florida I can’t tell you.
lurker (c23034) — 8/24/2024 @ 7:03 pmI never said I favor Harris (or Biden). I just think your parade of horribles can be controlled by the existing institutions without handing the presidency to Trump. As I’ve said throughout this presidential campaign, I’m a double hater and won’t vote for Trump, and certainly not any Democrat.
Rip Murdock (8b1d32) — 8/24/2024 @ 7:05 pmGiven my well documented positions on abortion and gun control, I can’t imagine supporting any Democrat.
Rip Murdock (8b1d32) — 8/24/2024 @ 7:21 pm@101
Tell that to Daleidens that Harris was instrumental in making his life miserable:
https://breakpoint.org/david-daleidens-courage-planned-parenthoods-deceit/
Tell that to Kavanaugh, where Harris flung BS after BS accusations during his hearings.
We’ve witnessed more than enough from Harris that she’d be an utter disaster in the Oval office, moreso than her opponent.
And the worst part, is that there would barely be any guardrails, if any, to reign in the worst of Harris’ impulses. Whereas a 2nd Trump administration would face far more scrutiny in both Congress and the courts.
whembly (b63583) — 8/24/2024 @ 7:23 pmLurker,
I just read in the Los Angeles Times that the historic Langer’s Deli is poised to close because of the filth and crime in nearby MacArthur Park. They are tired of waiting for the city to clean it up. The owner, Mr. Langer, said that the reason they feel the inside of the deli has been safe for patrons is because uniformed officers eat their at lunchtime..
Dana (5ff6bc) — 8/24/2024 @ 7:30 pm@Kevin@128 You probably don’t read in all the same places I do, but OMG was there whining about how the DNC didn’t have any anti-Israel speeches and how the DNC is just neo-lib corporate establishment. I mostly don’t think they all got happy, I think they got shut out of having a recognized soap-box.
Nic (120c94) — 8/24/2024 @ 7:56 pmOuch!
Rip Murdock (8b1d32) — 8/24/2024 @ 8:02 pmThanks, Dana. I hadn’t seen that. Ironic that the Forward article I linked, published less than a year ago, mentioned Langer’s as one of the L.A. delis that’s still thriving.
lurker (c23034) — 8/24/2024 @ 8:27 pmWhen she tries to steal an election after the fact, while spending literal YEARS falsely accusing her opponents of same, I will consider conceding this point. Until then, all the “nope” in the world.
I would find this comment hilarious if the situation were less serious.
Demosthenes (14533d) — 8/24/2024 @ 9:55 pmI would say it was me…but it wasn’t. Though I think I could probably pull off latter-day NJRob (quite easily, as he has become too rote and predictable), and quite possibly lloyd as well. Don’t think I could do BuDuh, though. He’s the subtlest of the three, and a good imitation would be hard to calibrate.
FWIW, my money is on Kevin Durant. Though the only way we’ll know for sure is if one of them starts talking about how much easier it will be to win a championship in Phoenix.
Demosthenes (14533d) — 8/24/2024 @ 10:03 pmI never said I favor Harris (or Biden). I just think your parade of horribles can be controlled by the existing institutions without handing the presidency to Trump.
Actually, I believe the Republic is strong enough to handle either of them, but there would be damage. I;m not saying that I prefer Trump, actually, I’m mostly pushing back on the idea that it’s a gimme for Harris. I did say a few days back that I think that I’d prefer Harris in a crisis to Trump because Trump is unpredictable. If you would guarantee me that it would not be a Progressive picnic, I’d be more sanguine.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/24/2024 @ 10:04 pmThe first part is definitely true. Not sure I agree with the second…though time will tell whether your more optimistic view actually obtains.
My current theory is that once they no longer have Trump to rally around, his supporters will seek a replacement figure. However, they won’t be able to agree on one Messiah, instead splitting their support between several alternatives. DeSantis is still a likely candidate for one of those spots…as is Vance, now. And obviously Don Jr would be in the mix.
If I’m right, then the resultant infighting might just destroy what is left of the Republican Party. That would be a sad day from one perspective.
Demosthenes (02093e) — 8/24/2024 @ 10:17 pmOuch, indeed. I didn’t know NR was still allowed to publish pieces like that.
Demosthenes (02093e) — 8/24/2024 @ 10:19 pmtrump voters: kerry lake who defeated karen taylor robson in 2022 gop primary in az said If their any mccain republicans get out! You can see it in commercials from her democrat opponent. Regular voters? You mean free trade economic libertarian conservatives? Why would trump populists vote for that? Only rich and ideologs believe in that conservative neo-con stuff. romney/ryan/neo-cons have been run out of the party along with their rich donor class. Try running on free trade in a republican primary. Its called delusional.
asset (5a134c) — 8/25/2024 @ 2:19 amIf one needs a tie break in this race, it’s stability versus instability…with a subtext of optimism versus nihilism.
In a real way, it’s a referendum on whether there should be ANY accountability at the top for J6….and whether we want to be in NATO….and oppose Putin in Ukraine (I understand this is a minority view). If Trump is elected, the legal system is tilted on its head as the President dismisses legitimate cases against himself. Harris, as mediocre as she is, does not appear willing to light anything on fire because of seething anger and emotional imbalance.
If the rules of the Senate are changed to make it function effectively like the House, then we’re heading down the path of political Armageddon. The question is why consider that ONLY one side would try it? This seems like a political blind spot to me. If the GOP sweeps….not impossible, is it so outlandish to think that it could be the GOP that sets aside the filibuster to pass transformational legislation on abortion, immigration, elections, courts, etc? That it drops the political nuke to please its base?
In my mind, this line of analysis is a push. Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley were more than willing to support Electoral College mischief and then abstain from holding Trump accountability. Can anyone say co-opted? The GOP character in the Senate does not exactly inspire Constitutional fidelity and the ethical high ground. Only one side was running on RETRIBUTION. Indeed.
Kevin can wobble all he wants, but it’s short-sighted to put someone unstable near the nuclear button….and be the decider while international tensions continue to heat up. Trump wants to joke his way out of every crisis. Harris is right — he is unserious. We can’t hope he chooses enough serious people to surround himself….while actually then also listening to them. Some might say that would be irresponsible……
AJ_Liberty (b9d17e) — 8/25/2024 @ 4:22 amAntipathy. And the Democrats only provided him with one Hillary to run against and that was in 2016.
SO UNFAIR!
nk (7b5c39) — 8/25/2024 @ 4:27 amHis supporters know it. “Orange Man Bad” is an itch they cannot scratch. Their only hope lay in Biden’s utter decrepitude and he snatched it away from them by bowing out.
Kamala will have to work hard to make herself as unlikeable as Hillary was. I don’t think she will.
nk (de245e) — 8/25/2024 @ 5:17 amThe protests about the Taliban treatment of their womenfolk has been something to behold. The burkas and such, didn’t used to be that way.
Paul Montagu (63a68f) — 8/25/2024 @ 7:05 amSo far the Democrats have been smart with their marketing of Harris. Not too many left-wing loons at the convention. No parade of left-wing domestic programs to scare Kevin. Lots of patriotic flags and cheers of USA. Lots of smiling and waving. Not too much screeching and cackling. Walz exudes blue collar. You can almost smell Kamala cooking up those burgers at MickyD’s! And on the other side, you got a lot of angry me-me-me. Let’s see how that shakes out….
AJ_Liberty (b9d17e) — 8/25/2024 @ 7:36 amThe commenters that have earned my esteem know who who they are and will remember that I am not long for this world – which explains why I spend less time commenting on what I read at this site, and more time on how I shall make an account of my life when I meet my Maker.
Thank you, AJ for your thoughtful comment. Please hear my voice as of one who seeks no power over you, but who loves you and would have you take time to pause about what you have witnessed, and compare it to what you now say.
————–
“Accountability.” What was the Jan 6 commission? Why was Trump impeached a second time? There have been indictments, trials, an arrest with an appearance for a mugshot. I point this out to those who might think that there should be accountability and there was none, that they should be satisfied since the evidence of being held accountable is plain, and was seen. If anyone still claims that there was no accountability, then maybe they are actually seeking punishment instead of accountability.
I would be surprised and disappointed if anyone honestly thought that there should be no accountability for those “at the top.” Of course, I can easily see many who believe “I should not be held accountable because of…” That is simply fallen human nature.
Accountability cuts both ways. Both the judged and the judges must be held, and seen to be held accountable; this is why we have courts of appeal. If appeals go unheeded, that can lead to a tumult. When a tumult succeeds, it will be called a revolution. when it is crushed it will be called an insurrection. “The victor writes history”, as it has been said.
We have seen the judged held accountable, we also need to see the judges held to account as well, when it is required. If these persistent appeals go unheeded, we may see more tumult, right or wrong, as for George Floyd by the citizenry and for Jan 6 by the citizenry.
This question is worth asking.
The legal system is already tilted on its head; which is why there are SLAPP laws, and why one Fed Judge can thwart a President.
You are speaking about Trump’s personal dismissal of the cases against him, which have no legal effect. Iirc, our generous host already explored the idea and plausibility of Trump actually trying to dismiss such cases in practice.
My insertion of “[her]” is not an attempt to put words in your mouth! It is only to clarify how I understood what you did say. If you meant “Trump’s,” then you are appealing to a bias in your reader’s mind. Since I harbor no such bias, that point would be lost on me and on the like-minded.
Still, it is safe to say that things are not always as they appear, and it would be helpful to search for, and agree upon, a definition for “light anything on fire,” as well as the meaning of “willing to.” If readers are to compare and contrast Harris to Trump in this regard, I believe it would be a fruitful endeavor.
But how does one read another’s mind to ascertain their “seething anger and emotional imbalance?” This would be neither fruitful nor helpful to explore.
felipe (022ca8) — 8/25/2024 @ 7:41 amThat should clearer.
felipe (022ca8) — 8/25/2024 @ 7:44 amHow does accountability work when there’s no adverse result after being held “accountable”?
Paul Montagu (63a68f) — 8/25/2024 @ 8:19 amfelipe, I’m on the way out, so I can’t respond adequately. Suffice to say that a partisan impeachment, followed by a non-conviction based on shakey procedural grounds, followed by effectively a partisan investigation which was actively delegitimized by the GOP, followed eventually by an indictment promptly called a witch-hunt, with a mug shot monetized, which all leads to a primary where Trump never debated his actions and the GOP gratiously gave him 2/3 of the vote and a crushing win. Some accountability. I’ll just shake my head.
AJ_Liberty (b9d17e) — 8/25/2024 @ 8:27 amI guess if you’re the executive editor you can publish anything you want.
Rip Murdock (8b1d32) — 8/25/2024 @ 8:58 amI think they will likely return to being more regular voters in the future
Of course they will, as they won’t have the personality to guide their beliefs. That’s not to say they won’t still have the same issues that need to be addressed, assuming they haven’t been addressed. If you mean they will go back to being libertarian free-traders, well no, but very few voters in either party are that now.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/25/2024 @ 9:03 amI think they will likely return to being more regular voters in the future
Of course they will, as they won’t have the personality to guide their beliefs. That’s not to say they won’t still have the same issues that need to be addressed, assuming they haven’t been addressed. If you mean they will go back to being libertarian free-traders, well no, but very few voters in either party are that now.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/25/2024 @ 9:03 amIf one needs a tie break in this race, it’s stability versus instability…with a subtext of optimism versus nihilism.
Kevin can wobble all he wants, but it’s short-sighted to put someone unstable near the nuclear button….and be the decider while international tensions continue to heat up. Trump wants to joke his way out of every crisis. Harris is right — he is unserious. We can’t hope he chooses enough serious people to surround himself….while actually then also listening to them. Some might say that would be irresponsible……
This is indeed my dilemma. And sorry if it’s “wobbling” to you — I don’t like moral certainty in a politician and I don’t like it in myself. It’s a form of arrogance to assume that you have all the answers or that no new information is useful.
Trump IS unserious. He is a terrible choice for the center-right party if only for that, but there are of course more reasons. And Harris IS serious … which makes her a terrible choice for the center-right voter as what she is serious about is not what they are serious about.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/25/2024 @ 9:10 amI guess if you’re the executive editor you can publish anything you want.
Until you aren’t executive editor.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/25/2024 @ 9:11 amAs you have pointed out, the existing institutions (Congress, the courts, and the Constitution) failed to contain Donald Trump. As a second term president, he won’t need to take the judgment of the people into consideration with his actions. With his new found immunity, there is nothing to constrain his actions, as threat of impeachment is gone too (though I would never expect a Republican House to consider it in the first place.)
Rip Murdock (8b1d32) — 8/25/2024 @ 9:14 amAs you have pointed out, the existing institutions (Congress, the courts, and the Constitution) failed to contain Donald Trump.
Where did I point that out since they DID contain him? What did he do that succeeded despire the opposition of those institutions?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/25/2024 @ 9:25 am(though I would never expect a Republican House to consider it in the first place.)
If Trump is elected he probably gains the Senate, but the house goes Democrat this cycle no matter what.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/25/2024 @ 9:26 amInteresting news about the Telegram founder, Franco-Russian Durov, arrested by French authorities. Russians seem a little freaked out about it, given that Durov’s site traffics in whopping amounts of Russian propaganda.
Paul Montagu (63a68f) — 8/25/2024 @ 10:19 amNo matter. The threat of impeachment would still be removed as a guardrail on Trump’s conduct.
Rip Murdock (5cdbbe) — 8/25/2024 @ 10:44 amHere. He’s able to run for President again unencumbered by any judgment about his conduct on January 6th.
Rip Murdock (8b1d32) — 8/25/2024 @ 10:51 am“If you mean they will go back to being libertarian free-traders, well no”
Is this wise or reactionary? How badly does a tariff-based politically-driven economic policy…with a President picking winner and losers…have to fail to before we return to a philosophy that is closer to Milton Friedman, Hayek, James Buchanan, Thomas Sowell, and Walter Williams?
We now have an implicit distrust of trade agreements in our political environment primarily from gross distortions and spurious claims made by Trump. If NAFTA was the worst trade agreement ever, how is it that Trump made only a small tweak to it…providing a hand out to the auto industry….and now it’s the greatest ever? Do we care to seriously analyze these things or is it just feelz? The same with tariffs and having to subsidize farmers because of predictable retaliation. Do we draw a lesson and have people speak honestly about it…or do we cynically market the situation for votes?
I agree that both parties are now anti-trade and pro-tariff…which are ironically both inflationary….which is the number one political issue. If you’re not trusting markets and enforcing trade agreements and guarding against currency manipulation….you’re leaning toward central planning and politics picking winners and losers. When a former libertarian like Kevin and whatever it is that asset calls himself arrive at the same point, I fear we have some dire economic lessons to learn…..
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 8/25/2024 @ 11:14 amWhen in the modern era was the Republican Party ever “libertarian”?
Rip Murdock (8b1d32) — 8/25/2024 @ 11:28 amPaul Montagu (63a68f) — 8/25/2024 @ 8:19 am
Justice protects the innocent. One should never expect adverse results for those being held accountable; especially when there a legal presumption of innocence, right?
felipe (022ca8) — 8/25/2024 @ 11:49 amAJ_Liberty (b9d17e) — 8/25/2024 @ 8:27 am
I’m shaking my head along with you.
felipe (022ca8) — 8/25/2024 @ 11:51 am> will remember that I am not long for this world
I missed that memo, felipe. I am sorry to hear it, and hope that you are able to find comfort in your final days.
aphrael (8c9441) — 8/25/2024 @ 11:55 amRFK Jr.’s Double-Edged Trump Endorsement
…………
It’s hard to judge the endorsement’s electoral impact. RFK Jr. has lost about half of his standing in the polls since President Biden dropped out of the race. Most of those voters seem to be disgruntled Democrats who are now returning home for Kamala Harris.
That means the 5% or so of voters who continue to back him are probably more inclined to support Mr. Trump, if they bother to vote. ……….
Mr. Kennedy also said Mr. Trump plans to “enlist” him in government if he wins in November, and that’s the potential rub………
……….(T)he former Democrat lives in the fever swamps with his anti-vaccination views, his support for an extreme climate agenda, and his belief that American health ills are largely the result of collusion between big business and government regulators. ……….. If RFK Jr. is anywhere near the healthcare or environmental agencies in a Trump Administration, look out.
Mr. Trump’s best response is to thank RFK Jr. for his support, make no promises about the future, and by all means avoid joint campaign appearances.
#########
I don’t expect Trump to keep any promises he’s made to RFKJr. because after the election Trump doesn’t need him anymore. But if he does appoint him to a governmental position, my prediction is that it won’t require Senate confirmation, as Jr. would need to answer some uncomfortable questions, such as his advocacy for the “death” of major American corporations and the imprisonment of their leaders.
RFKJr. should also be kept away from any of the national security agencies, such as the FBI or CIA, given his conspiracy theories about the deaths of his father and uncle.
Rip Murdock (8b1d32) — 8/25/2024 @ 11:57 am> is that it won’t require Senate confirmation
So, national security advisor? 🙂
aphrael (8c9441) — 8/25/2024 @ 11:58 amThe non-italicized part of post 168 should have been blockquoted.
Rip Murdock (8b1d32) — 8/25/2024 @ 11:58 amWell, the pro-crime party is at it again.
The things you saw and things you heard didn’t really happen. Storm the capital, you’re the hostages, poor babies.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/25/2024 @ 12:01 pmI once predicted that RFK jr would get about 15% of the popular vote in the General. Well, I never even thought to hedge that prediction with “as long as Biden doesn’t drop out.” Much less the rest of the recent developments.
[heavy sigh]
I’m glad to have spent a little time here today.
felipe (022ca8) — 8/25/2024 @ 12:02 pmEight days is now eight months:
Rip Murdock (8b1d32) — 8/25/2024 @ 12:17 pmThis is…not the line I would be comfortable walking if I had to confront parents who were angry that their kid had been punched in the face. “Yes, Mr. and Mrs. Jones, I know exactly who punched little Susie. Our video cameras clearly show Johnny Smith hauling off and clocking her. We showed that footage to everyone in school, so Johnny has been held accountable. What? Well, no, of course nothing else is going to happen. Johnny’s parents are both on the school board. Wait, where are you going? Come back!”
In Trump’s case, it’s plain as day. Read his social media posts. Listen to him speak. I agree that it “would be neither fruitful nor helpful to explore”…but only because you don’t have to explore it. It’s literally right there in front of you.
I understand, I think, your unstated point about extending benefit of the doubt — or perhaps grace. But those extensions have natural limits, and Trump blew by them years ago.
Fair point. I didn’t look at the byline.
Did they, though? If the security guards at the shopping mall leave the main exit wide open, and fail to do a single thing to stop a shoplifter…but he is caught anyway through a combination of poor planning, self-deputizing shoppers, and tripping over his own shoelaces…do we really say the guards did their job?
And…more importantly…even granting your point for the sake of argument, do you think the institutions are likely to contain him a second time?
Because I don’t.
Demosthenes (3fd56e) — 8/25/2024 @ 12:24 pmFelipe,
I pray your days are comfortable and your soul is at peace. May you be enveloped by the love of God.
x
Dana (85f5c2) — 8/25/2024 @ 12:50 pmI agree, yet a non-innocent Trump escaped accountability by the whims of an unhealthy politically calculating Senate Majority Leader.
Paul Montagu (dd1809) — 8/25/2024 @ 1:14 pm#175 Amen to what Dana said.
Jim Miller (fe9540) — 8/25/2024 @ 1:32 pmDitto AJ 151.
Also, I have not read enough recently to realize you are ill and possibly dying. I am so sorry. I wish you well.
DRJ (63b19b) — 8/25/2024 @ 2:48 pmOr is it my friend felipe who said that he is not long for this world?
I am not sure but, if so, I am sorry and also wish you well.
DRJ (63b19b) — 8/25/2024 @ 2:52 pmfelipe,
I’m so very sorry. I hope that you spend well the time you have left. For whatever it may be worth, you are in my prayers. I don’t know who you are…but God does. I’m pretty sure He’ll be able to figure out who I am talking about.
Peace be unto you.
Demosthenes (3fd56e) — 8/25/2024 @ 3:16 pmI will break from my hiatus to wish my brother in Christ felipe well and pray you are speaking of your limited time as a man who knows we all leave this mortal coil when He chooses. Peace be with you.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 8/25/2024 @ 3:22 pmHe’s able to run for President again unencumbered by any judgment about his conduct on January 6th.
Still, he’s contained. The institutions did not allow him to BS his way back into the WH and he has to ask the country’s permission again (which he is probably not going to get). He didn’t even get to build his wall.
Perhaps you have a different idea of what “contain” means, or just change the definition as it suits your argument.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/25/2024 @ 3:29 pmNo matter. The threat of impeachment would still be removed as a guardrail on Trump’s conduct.
I assert, with no proof other than the increasing vote to convict, that his third time on trial and he’s get convicted. People will be done by then.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/25/2024 @ 3:31 pmI doubt you find 2/3 of Senate to convict. In fact, I assert the vote in favor of conviction will be less than 50. Again, the Republican House won’t consider impeachment.
We shall see.
Rip Murdock (19ebb8) — 8/25/2024 @ 3:35 pmIs this wise or reactionary? How badly does a tariff-based politically-driven economic policy…with a President picking winner and losers…have to fail to before we return to a philosophy that is closer to Milton Friedman, Hayek, James Buchanan, Thomas Sowell, and Walter Williams?
The pendulum swings and does not swing back so easily. The people to blame are those in our country who took the opening of trade to mean they could stripmine the manufacturing base and use slave labor to drive costs down, never mind the external costs to communities or individual VOTERS.
That democracy thing is a bit*h when the few enrich themselves by impoverishing the many. Capitalism is great and so is free trade, but there are democratic controls on behavior just the same.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/25/2024 @ 3:36 pmAgain, the Republican House won’t consider impeachment.
It will depend on the mood of the People, which politicians can read pretty easily. The only reason that Trump was not convicted over J6 was because he was already out of office.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/25/2024 @ 3:39 pmIs this wise or reactionary? How badly does a tariff-based politically-driven economic policy…with a President picking winner and losers…have to fail
As badly as free trade failed to increase the wealth of working Americans.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/25/2024 @ 3:41 pm“Contain” means following the legal and constitutional guardrails, which he managed to avoid a judgment for violating. He will now be free to ignore them with the newly established presidential immunity. I expect him to order the dismissal of the federal cases (notwithstanding what Patterico says) and in the end will self-pardon himself, (as there is nothing in the constitution that prevents that) for any non-immunized actions he may take.
Impeaching Trump a third time is unlikely to happen; and a conviction is even less likely. I would expect fewer than 50 votes for conviction.
Rip Murdock (19ebb8) — 8/25/2024 @ 3:52 pmI was referring to the new House that is sworn in in January 2025.
Rip Murdock (19ebb8) — 8/25/2024 @ 3:58 pmIt begs the question, it really does: If we have a guy who wants to be President and we need to ask whether we can hold him accountable in the event he abuses the Office (and his Vice President the couch but that’s a different story), then why not simply avoid the issue and not make him President?
Eh?
nk (98545d) — 8/25/2024 @ 4:28 pmThis is a really good question.
This is also when I think the whole “binary choice“ argument might finally come back to bite Trump supporters in the rear. (It is not, in fact, a binary choice…but it is as close to a binary outcome as can be imagined in a situation where more than two outcomes are technically possible.) If you know that, barring at least one and probably several unlikely events, one of two people WILL be the next president…and, as with many moderate/independent/undecided voters, neither of those candidates comes close to looking like your ideal choice…wouldn’t it be much more logical to prefer the one who did NOT already try to steal a term in office?
Demosthenes (f5e34b) — 8/25/2024 @ 5:04 pmMob rule is NOT rational….and that’s what we’re closest too for the GOP in these Trumpian times. The electronic and print media are geared to give the masses what they want which is if not a persistent defense of Trump, a persistent defense of the anti-anti-Trump.
You can’t watch FNC or read NR without seeing it. Everything is processed through a weird Trump filter. The more the main stream media points out the irrationality of pushing Trump, the more defensive and strident is the response. We can complain all we want about the quality of this or that candidate, but reality is that none of them had a chance…not because they chose this or that lane…and certainly not because NeverTrump chose poorly…but because a mob enjoys the radical with the loudest bullhorn that echoes back their demands. If you want protectionism, by God that radical will give it to you good and hard.
Still, how many mobs have things thought through very well. They usually just make a big mess that other responsible people have to clean up and pay for. J6 riot? Northwest riots? Ferguson riot? That’s populism and at the end of the day, I just expect more mess….
AJ_Liberty (48dda5) — 8/25/2024 @ 5:38 pm“As badly as free trade failed to increase the wealth of working Americans.”
First, despite free trade appearing in trade agreements, we’ve never had anything close to it. It’s ridiculous to think otherwise. There will always be elements of protectionism, coupled with regulations that push back on true free trade.
Second, trade liberalization is good for the consumer. How many Americans would have smart phones if they could only be manufactured in the US? Go down the list of electronic gadgets. But also peruse the aisles of Walmart for all of life’s necessities, from kitchenware to cleaning supplies to clothes. The urge toward protectionism is the urge to doubling or tripling the cost of most of that as we insist that politicians know which products should be manufactured locally and what should be let in.
Kevin shortcuts any discussion that trade deliberalization means more power and more spending by the state. He avoids facing that more tariffs means higher prices and less choices because frankly he’s high on populism. If every displaced factory worker deserves a bailout, how exactly should we be afraid of Kamala’s socialism….smells like the same dead animal to me…..
AJ_Liberty (48dda5) — 8/25/2024 @ 5:53 pmSecond, trade liberalization is good for the consumer.
The the local mill closes and is shipped off to China, the folks in the dying town might not think too much of this. The fact is that the west coast and northeast benefited disproportionately and the midwest and south did not. People with professional careers benefited (their jobs weren’t going anywhere soon) and the folks with high school diplomas not so much.
In the long term, everyone benefits from spreading prosperity, even overseas. But people eat in the short run. Prosperity to a Pakistani bricklayer is different that prosperity to a Des Moines carpenter.
Kevin shortcuts any discussion that trade deliberalization means more power and more spending by the state. He avoids facing that more tariffs means higher prices and less choices because frankly he’s high on populism.
Hardly. I have just as good, if not better, economic education than you. I’ve read my Hayek and Rothbard and spent my time in the Libertarian Party. I think that “Other People’s Money” is a brilliant movie.
What I am explaining, to people who obviously need broader horizons, is that the benefits were so unthinkingly lopsided that a majority of voters (aka “the mob”) decided that is was spinach and to Hell with it. The people in charge of these hedge funds and other buyout firms didn’t have to look at the pain they were causing. It didn’t show on their bottom lines. Now, it does.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/25/2024 @ 6:29 pmTariffs are a sin tax. Nothing more, nothing less.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/25/2024 @ 6:32 pmFree trade is good for the consumer says conservatives and 16 dwarfs trump ran against in 2016. Oh you lost your job and have no money to buy cheaper chinese goods? Well support free trade anyway it helps out rich donor class get even richer!
asset (451d6e) — 8/25/2024 @ 7:31 pmShould every industry be protected ad infinitum? If not, which ones should be subsidized and which should be allowed to die? You both appear to suggest that government should either pick or choose…or in the extreme simply subsidize everyone with a living wage. How practical is that?
Yes, some industries die or shrink. The steel industry is a prime example. It provided lots of blue collar jobs for men who did not go to college. Even Reagan tried to protect the industry with tariffs but ultimately it shrunk. Why? The companies made poor decisions and the labor unions made outrageous demands. The Japanese invested in new technology and achieved costs that made a profit possible.
What government does in these circumstances is an important discussion point. Charles Murray in the Bell Curve discusses it thoroughly from a sociological point of view. Retraining and education vouchers would be one approach. I don’t argue to ignore it and hope it goes away. I also don’t support central planning or politically driven protectionism.
Don’t get me started on carpenter jobs. They’re all over the place…especially if you join a union. Don’t want to join a union….that’s your choice.
AJ_Liberty (48dda5) — 8/25/2024 @ 7:52 pmAJ,
I am not a fan of protectionist tariffs, but not all tariffs are “protectionist” in the normal sense of the word. Sure, if we impose tariffs on French wine to protect the California wine growers it’s lousy economics. BUt if we impose tariffs on a country that is subsidizing exports so that they own the world market and later barriers to entry will be too great, then it’s just self-defense.
Some would say, well, let them sell ___ here for a dollar each and they’ll be cheap to our people. Until they aren’t, or until they’ve cut us off for strategic reasons and we’re so dependent we give into the blackmail (like Japan and Europe did with the oil embargoes).
Again, it’s a sin tax, with the sin being “buying X from country Y.” Some sin taxes, like on tobacco, make more sense than other sin taxes (like on French wine).
Note that Charles Murray also discusses what happened to the US working class when Capital discovered it didn’t need them any more.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/25/2024 @ 10:48 pmTrump’s America (Charles Murray)
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/25/2024 @ 10:49 pmNote that we do NOT block the sale of these foreign products, we just make them cost more. If done for the right reasons, it removes a subsidy or some unfair advantage (e.g. allowing manufacturers to poison their land to cut costs) and defends US interests (e.g. not wanting to poison our land or drive wages into the mud).
Note that we don’t put tariffs on most products from the first world, or even places like Mexico. That we are doing that with China is because of CHINA. Yeah, steel, you’re right, but it’s not usually like that.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/25/2024 @ 10:56 pmIf Fatcat MacBloat can sell his Crapomatic for $1.00, $0.85 of which is profit and $0.10 of which is tariff, and the government repeals the tariff, he will still sell the Crapomatic for $1.00 except that now his profit will be $0.95.
Put not your faith in peddlers, nor in plutocrats, nor yet in economic sophistries developed during the age of colonialism by their lackeys with academic titles.
nk (ebf82d) — 8/26/2024 @ 7:02 amIF Fatcat can make his Crapomatic for no costs whatsoever, great. But he can’t so he has Uyghur slaves do it for 5 cents then complains loudly about the protectionist tariff he has to pay.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/26/2024 @ 7:06 amTariffs will make no difference to consumer prices. Consumer prices will always be “Whatever The Market Will Bear”. Always!
Where they might make a difference is whether the Third Assistant Vice-President at Amazon will have a third Lamborghini in his three-car garage or have to wait until he is Second Assistant Vice-President at Walmart.
nk (ebf82d) — 8/26/2024 @ 7:10 amConsumer prices will always be “Whatever The Market Will Bear”
What the market will bear depends on what market share the low-cost producer is desirous of.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/26/2024 @ 7:36 amReally, nk, the market price depends on lots of things, one of which is costs. If China makes a widget for $1 and sells them at $2, then $2 is what the market will bear. If the US manufacturer has to pay labor costs and obey pollution rules, forcing his costs up to $4, he will make something else. A $4 tariff would change that calculation AND raise what “the market will bear”
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/26/2024 @ 7:41 amTariffs can be a bad idea, unless its protecting a domestic industry being targeted by a foreign country.
Ironically, I think, signaling to the world that you won’t threaten to use tariffs is a bigger mistake. Trade is a continual rolling negotiation. And sometimes implementing tariffs is necessary to remain credible.
The COVID shutdown era, and it’s impact to supply chains should be that screaming red-flag warning that we must have more domestic capabilities to weather these sorts of supply chain disruptions. That may require some strategic tariffs in order to protect these domestic industries from a national security perspective.
whembly (477db6) — 8/26/2024 @ 8:19 amAnd sometimes dinosaur companies like the open-hearth steel makers need to go under in order to make way for domestic competitors with newer plants. Tariffs can prevent that. But it is nonsense to equate the steel market with the solar panel market or the EV market. It will be interesting to see what happens when Boeing can’t sell planes.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/26/2024 @ 8:31 amIs this for reaL? Is DT seriously planning to hold a J6 Gala?
Has he given up on the election and is looking to squeeze the last drop out of his faithful turnips and shut down the con?
nk (ed0f67) — 8/26/2024 @ 9:21 am@207
They had one last year. I don’t think Trump himself attended.
The proceeds, from what I’ve seen, is supposed to go to the J6 attorney funds (Time123 led me to this a while back).
whembly (477db6) — 8/26/2024 @ 9:26 amThank you, whembly.
nk (ed0f67) — 8/26/2024 @ 9:51 amTrump did attend a J6 fundraiser in August of last year.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/26/2024 @ 9:52 amAh. Interesting.
Then I’d bet he’d attend this one too.
whembly (477db6) — 8/26/2024 @ 9:58 amI don’t expect he will, being so close to the election. It would be another reminder of what happened on January 6th.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/26/2024 @ 10:01 amIt’s at his golf club.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/26/2024 @ 10:20 amFelipe, I’m sorry to hear about your health. I’ll pray for you.
Time123 (05a49c) — 8/26/2024 @ 10:27 amKevin, I would rather see the transient impacts of globalization addressed through means other than tariffs. Two main reasons.
Time123 (05a49c) — 8/26/2024 @ 10:30 am1. Market distortions.
2. Protectionism doesn’t help impacted ppl and areas in the long term.
So what? I’m sure there are plenty of events at Bedminster that Trump doesn’t attend. His campaign has denied that Trump will be attending:
That is about as Shermanesque as you can get, or would require a huge walk back. From a political point of view attending would be a big mistake (for the reasons in post 213), but then again I wouldn’t be surprised if Trump overruled his campaign people.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/26/2024 @ 10:30 amI have no problem with strategic tariffs…on Canadian steel, I probably have a problem. China is more complicated because one would expect retaliation, as we saw with our agriculture exports. Either farmers get screwed and eventually must scale back production and lose profit or the US government must subsidize them for the loss in exports. The question becomes who wins on balance…or is everyone worse off?
The WTO (formerly GATT) does navigate trade disputes and currency manipulation so we do have people helping to police the Chinese.
There are not a lot of economics experts pushing for tariffs. It’s probably a rare point of agreement across the spectra. Selective seems fine but with the understanding that near-peer competitors can retaliate. Simply saying that we need to try something else assumes that something else can’t make us collectively poorer. Some tariffs will be dumb.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 8/26/2024 @ 10:43 amLike his rallies, he would be preaching to the choir.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/26/2024 @ 10:46 amAll that centrist rhetoric quickly walked back:
The Dispatch:
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/26/2024 @ 10:58 amKevin, I would rather see the transient impacts of globalization addressed through means other than tariffs.
OK. I’ll bite. Such as what?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/26/2024 @ 11:00 amThere are not a lot of economics experts pushing for tariffs. It’s probably a rare point of agreement across the spectra.
And the converse agreement among politicians of both parties. We’ve never had actual free trade, as I think you’ve mentioned. Quotas, reciprocation, and other agreements abound. Our trade policies can be better summarized as periods of looser or tighter trade restrictions.
Even worse than tariffs are export bans, such as the new bans on high-end ICs and production equipment to China. It can be argued that these bans amount to (unconstitutional) export duties as it just means China has to employ middlemen to get the stuff. Since their inevitable effect is to protect CHINESE industry by closing markets to US producers, they are particularly stupid (except during wartime). This kind of thing set off the Pacific War iirc.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/26/2024 @ 11:09 amHow are the trade restrictions “unconstitutional”? You would rather sell the Chinese the rope to hang ourselves? And whose to say that we are not engaged in a (cold) war with China that anytime could turn hot?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/26/2024 @ 11:24 amThat’s a big if.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/26/2024 @ 11:26 amfelipe, I have always enjoyed your posts and points of view. Please let us all know how best to support you during this time.
Simon Jester (ff9c91) — 8/26/2024 @ 11:27 amSupreme Court term limits would clearly require a constitutional amendment; at best Congress could impose an ethics code and change the number of justices by legislation. “Permanent reproductive rights, (and) permanent restored voting rights” could easily be overturned by the courts or a new Congress. But again, unless the Democrats win a substantial (say, +5) in the Senate to cover any defectors opposing removing the filibuster, any of the parade of horribles is unlikely to occur. This may the Democrats fantasy, but given the electoral map they will be lucky to have 45 seats in the Senate.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/26/2024 @ 11:33 amI don’t understand why you think Trump won’t win reelection, ye of so little faith.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/26/2024 @ 11:35 am@227
I’m in Kevin’s camp.
This is Harris’ race to lose.
She may still do that, but Trump has to essentially pull an “inside straight” to pull of an EC win.
whembly (477db6) — 8/26/2024 @ 11:55 am> given the electoral map they will be lucky to have 45 seats in the Senate.
How do you get there?
Dems are gonna win in PA, MI, WI, NV, and AZ. They’re gonna lose in WV. OH and MT could go either way, still.
So worst case it’s 46+2.
aphrael (9c2ac5) — 8/26/2024 @ 11:57 amI disagree with MI, WI, and NV. AZ is a self inflicted Rep loss. Like WV, Montana is a sure Rep pickup and OH is also a (nearly certain) pickup. If someone with Moreno’s wealth can’t win a Senate seat, what is this world coming to, esp. in a Republican friendly state like Ohio. It should be JD Vance’s job to drag him across the finish line.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/26/2024 @ 12:06 pmGiven his long time leads in battleground and national polls, it seems the election is Trump’s to lose. If Trump can’t beat someone who has been described as a “communist”, he doesn’t deserve to win. Harris is clearly the underdog.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/26/2024 @ 12:10 pmI know we’ve not talked about Mark Robinson much. But good lord.
To be fair to the 18% undecideds, the other guy is jewish, so if you’re a light KKK/Nazi, it’s a hard choice.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/26/2024 @ 12:16 pmBeing in the Cincinnati market, Moreno is actively trying to distance himself from Vance, while embracing Trump. It’s a hard needle to thread. Vance has tarnished himself in Ohio by finally getting the things he said publicly in the public. He ran 15-20 points behind DeWine and other Republicans in the state.
Sherrod Brown is popular in Ohio, he gets along with DeWine pretty well.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/26/2024 @ 12:25 pmIrrespective of Sherrod Brown’s popularity, a Colombian multi-millionaire should be able to buy up any available advertising time and blanket the state.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/26/2024 @ 12:58 pmHow are the trade restrictions “unconstitutional”? You would rather sell the Chinese the rope to hang ourselves? And whose to say that we are not engaged in a (cold) war with China that anytime could turn hot?
Export duties are expressly forbidden in Article I, Section 9. These are just duties by another name, costing China extra to buy stuff on the grey market.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/26/2024 @ 1:56 pm> I disagree with MI, WI, and NV. AZ is a self inflicted Rep loss
AZ is absolutely a self-inflicted loss.
But — WI is very clearly a Baldwin win, and Rosen and Slotkin have been consistently leading in the polls all year (even during the time when Biden was losing)
aphrael (9c2ac5) — 8/26/2024 @ 1:58 pm> given the electoral map they will be lucky to have 45 seats in the Senate.
They have 49 seats if trends hold. Fifty if Montana goes Blue again. Fifty-one if Scott fades. The momentum favors the Dems.
https://www.realclearpolling.com/maps/senate/2024/toss-up
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/26/2024 @ 1:59 pmColonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/26/2024 @ 12:25 pm
I don’t think Vance’s earlier statements really get him into trouble. (and he said them only because he was being provocative)
Vance is defending Trump. He gives good answers when he can and specious answers when he can’t. He is stuck with what Trump has said.
He even gives logic to Trump that Trump himself probably doesn’t have. *Trump doesn’t have these thoughts)
For instance, he said Trump wants abortion left to the states so that this will not be a national issue in every election.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/vance-says-trump-would-veto-a-bill-that-establishes-a-federal-abortion-ban
Trump doesn’t have a principled reasoned thought like that.
Vance is a lawyer.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 8/26/2024 @ 2:00 pmNo tossup map
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/26/2024 @ 2:01 pmKevin M (a9545f) — 8/26/2024 @ 1:59 pm
What Scott?
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 8/26/2024 @ 2:02 pmI disagree with MI, WI, and NV. AZ is a self inflicted Rep loss. Like WV, Montana is a sure Rep pickup and OH is also a (nearly certain) pickup. If someone with Moreno’s wealth can’t win a Senate seat, what is this world coming to, esp. in a Republican friendly state like Ohio. It should be JD Vance’s job to drag him across the finish line.
Wishcasting.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/26/2024 @ 2:02 pmWhat Scott?
Florida Scott leads by 6 points, which isn’t a lot given Biden is no longer there to run against. Harris will get out more voters.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/26/2024 @ 2:03 pmAnd that’s the average. Since Biden dropped out, Scott is only up by 4.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/26/2024 @ 2:05 pmArticle I applies only to Congress, not the Executive Branch.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/26/2024 @ 2:20 pmSadly, I think Vance is right.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/26/2024 @ 2:22 pmNot on Montana or Ohio.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/26/2024 @ 2:24 pmGreat Scott!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/26/2024 @ 2:24 pmArticle I applies only to Congress, not the Executive Branch.
Delegated congressional authority is still congressional authority.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/26/2024 @ 2:30 pmNot on Montana or Ohio.
It looks like Biden dropping out has got Montana looking to the Senate to block. Tester had been leading until then. But it’s a weak lead since he was down earlier in the year.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/26/2024 @ 2:35 pmI’m surprised then that no company has challenged the trade restrictions in court.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/26/2024 @ 2:35 pmOh, it was probably litigated in the Cold War. Not sure if the same calculus would still apply. It’s clearly a grey area and depends greatly on how much of a textualist one is. Still, if flag-burning is speech, penumbrae exist here.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/26/2024 @ 2:38 pmI remember when Toshiba sold 6-axis milling machines to the Soviets. The head of Toshiba had to resign.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/26/2024 @ 2:39 pmJack Smith appeals stupid Cannon ruling. If Trump loses, he is going to have to flee to Russia.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/26/2024 @ 2:41 pmWhich Scott is in trouble getting re-elected to the Senate Rick Scott??
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 8/26/2024 @ 2:43 pm50-50 in the national popular vote = a small victory for Trump in the electoral college because Trump gets swamped in California Illinois and a few other states.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 8/26/2024 @ 2:44 pmMy bet is that the top four races (plus Nevada) will ultimately flip to the Republicans. If Trump wins those states, the Senators will follow.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/26/2024 @ 2:56 pmThen again, Toshiba is not an American company.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/26/2024 @ 2:57 pmHarris has been leading in Michigan since Biden dropped out – 7 different polls.
Trump is up by 8 in Ohio, and Sherrod Brown is up by 5 (and has led wire to wire, no poll has ever had him behind).
Arizona is another state where the Democrat has never trailed.
#9: Ted Cruz is running away with it.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/26/2024 @ 4:07 pmThen again, Toshiba is not an American company.
But was using American tech and had lots of defense contracts. ASML is also not an American company, but their best-in-the-world fab equipment is vorboten to the Chinese.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/26/2024 @ 4:09 pmWhat DeSantis should have made his marquee issue:
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/26/2024 @ 4:12 pmThe Miami Teachers Union Election
Arizona was a possible pickup until the voters nominated a nutjob.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/26/2024 @ 5:59 pm@256 5 az. Democrats are running ads where kari lake tells “mccain” republicans to get out in 2022 gov. election.
asset (651adb) — 8/26/2024 @ 6:26 pmDemocrats are running ads where kari lake tells “mccain” republicans to get out in 2022 gov. election.
I’m sure there are Gallegos speeches about how borders need to be more open.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/26/2024 @ 6:33 pm“Even a man who is pure in heart,
nk (9f470a) — 8/27/2024 @ 4:29 amAnd says his prayers by night,
May become Kari Lake when the wolfbane blooms,
And the moon is full and bright.”
Offered without comment:
Out: Soccer Moms and Security Moms. In: Health Moms.
Appalled (b257b0) — 8/27/2024 @ 5:53 amIs RFK Jr. the secret to suburban women?
Why do people assume that suburban women are idiots?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/27/2024 @ 6:16 am@253
Tell me you haven’t read Cannon’s ruling without telling me.
In short, Cannon made the case that Smith’s SCO is unconstitutional because he’s an Officer of the US in the same manner as US Attorneys, who was not:
1) appointed by POTUS, nor…
2) confirmed by SENATE, and…
3) SCO DoJ regulations, what Smith/Garland is relying on, doesn’t supersede the Constitution.
What’s mind-boggling to me, is that, all of this would go away had Garland “moved” the “top” oversight person from Smith, to US Attorney Handberg or LaPointe in Florida.
It’s a trivial, 5minute thing they can do and then go right back into the case.
whembly (477db6) — 8/27/2024 @ 6:46 amI’ve talked at length about my problems with Kamala Harris, and I still find her attractions minimal. But then there is Donald Trump. The Alternative. And, daily, my discomfort with him grows. Let me count the ways:
1. J6. Everything about J6. Not only was it terrible, no good, awful behavior from a sitting President (or, well, anyone), but it was incompetent and deranged to boot.
2. His promise to pardon people who merely participated is maybe understandable (and court cases may vacate some charges anyway) but to pardon people who committed “sedition” (a polite word for treason) is a bridge too far.
3. His last administration was characterized by growing incompetence, loss of focus, bizarre decisions (e.g. North Korea) and Cabinet turnover where “A”s eventually were replaced by “C”s.
4. There were some good things. His tax cuts helped the working and lower middle class, and while they raised taxes on professionals and the upper middle class, that was really expected. He really was trying to help those in fly-over country. His military destroyed ISIS after Obama had loosed them in Iraq. Many regulatory reforms were valuable. Remain in Mexico and those parts of the Wall that he managed to build slowed the mass migration.
5. There are things I would like to see that he appears interested in: closing the departments of Education, Labor, Commerce and Energy would be good (the useful bits like the Patent Office can stand alone).
6. But. Trump has become a bomb-thrower and lately his targets seem random. He is as likely to close NASA as D.Ed. God only knows who he’d appoint to the courts. And his Cabinet would START with those “C”s and slide from there. If a Republican can’t even keep John Bolton on his side, there’s not much hope.
7. Putin. NATO. Ukraine.
This election sucks.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/27/2024 @ 6:57 amwhembly,
There are about 100 years of precedent for that appointment. Cannon cherry-picks cases to get the answer she wants. If her ruling stands, lots of previously settled law is suspect. And for what? To get Donald Trump off the hook for serious felonies that you or I would go to a Supermax for life if we did them?
Bah.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/27/2024 @ 7:00 amBut thank you for reminding me. That would be point “8”
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/27/2024 @ 7:00 amNope, not a crazy-ass malignant narcissist. This is not going to get better, and this is after his consultants urged him to focus on policy.
Paul Montagu (5764e3) — 8/27/2024 @ 7:05 amThere are about 100 years of precedent for that appointment.
Ginni’s note to Clarence on the refrigerator trumps them all.
nk (f64de4) — 8/27/2024 @ 7:06 am67 years old and she’s still got it!
She’s bigger than him, too.
nk (f64de4) — 8/27/2024 @ 7:08 amhttps://www.nationalreview.com/news/zuckerberg-admits-facebook-wrong-to-suppress-hunter-laptop-story-scolds-white-house-for-covid-censorship/
…straight from the horse’s mouth.
whembly (477db6) — 8/27/2024 @ 7:18 am@269
And? The courts hasn’t weighed in on that question, because that controversy hadn’t worked its way to them yet.
Garland/Smith can PROSECUTE this case NOW if they hand off the supervision of this case to an appointed/confirm US Attorney.
You can do this over your morning coffee, and BOOM, they’re back in court.
Why won’t they do this? You tell me Kevin, why won’t they put Smith SCO under the supervision of an appointed/confirmed US Attorney? What are they afraid of?
Furthermore, the current SCO regulation is a DoJ-own regulation.
We all should have a problem with a DoJ, hand-picking any attorney off the street to have even MORE power and budget than an appointed/confirmed US Attorney.
We shouldn’t want a:
SCO Sidney Power
SCO Guiliani
SCO Mark Elias
…as NONE would ever get through a Senate confirmation.
whembly (477db6) — 8/27/2024 @ 7:31 am@274, it was a mistake. If ppl could go back in time Fox wouldn’t have passed on the story and the NYpost reporters that wrote the initial story would have put their byline on it. But the providence of the laptop was so outlandish everyone was very skeptical about it in the beginning.
Time123 (05a49c) — 8/27/2024 @ 7:35 amSo FB throttled the story for about a week.
I’m seeing lots of excerpts from Zuck’s letter. But I can’t find the full text of the letter. Anyone (RIP?) found the full document?
Time123 (05a49c) — 8/27/2024 @ 7:36 amTo be clear, there was no “Biden administration” in 2020, when the Hunter laptop story came out. It was a 2-page letter with no specifics, so we don’t know what Covid content was “censored”.
Paul Montagu (5764e3) — 8/27/2024 @ 7:56 amI can see why Zuckerberg is counter-attacking — considering how much legal — and moral — trouble Facebook is in. For example.
(For the record: I don’t have any opinion on Facebook and the Hunter laptop story, other than my standard one, that we need to move on from the current situation, in which Facebook claims the rights of a publisher — without accepting the legal responsibilities.)
Jim Miller (64f7f5) — 8/27/2024 @ 8:00 amA little bit of good news:
Jim Miller (64f7f5) — 8/27/2024 @ 8:19 am@279, Jim, there’s a new catagory of “platform” that encompasses Facebook and this comment section where the platform owner can make moderation decisions as they see fit without being liable for things said on their platform.
Just because Patterico will moderate my comments that use profanity doesn’t make
Time123 (247441) — 8/27/2024 @ 8:55 amHim liable for something defamatory that I say.
@278, have you seen the full letter?
Time123 (247441) — 8/27/2024 @ 8:55 amAll of 15 seconds to find. Zuck sounds like he is sucking up to Jordan.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/27/2024 @ 8:58 amZuck sounds like he is sucking up to Jordan.
Well, in his position as owner of a gold mine I’d be keen on keeping the gold mine regulator happy.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/27/2024 @ 9:00 amIt was linked in the NR piece. Barely two pages.
Paul Montagu (5764e3) — 8/27/2024 @ 9:12 amProblem is that Jordan is not a regulator, and Congress is prohibited from regulating social media content (First Amendment).
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/27/2024 @ 9:15 amJim Jordan is treating Mark Zuckerberg like a piñata.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/27/2024 @ 9:16 amThanks RIP. DOn’t know why google failed me.
Time123 (05a49c) — 8/27/2024 @ 9:23 amNot much new information there.
Time123 (05a49c) — 8/27/2024 @ 9:26 amWill they or won’t they?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/27/2024 @ 10:00 amRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/27/2024 @ 10:00 am
Trump on Sunday night openly questioned whether he’ll take part in the ABC-hosted event……
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/27/2024 @ 10:03 amEven though the mics were off during the June debate, Trump was still babbling when it was Biden’s turn to talk, and Biden could hear it but the rest of us could not. It threw Biden off as Trump intended without making the bad impression on the public that the same “Trump being Trump” tactic had made in the 2020 debate.
I think Harris is on the right track here. Let all of Trump hang out and let the people see it. And giggle.
nk (dd9ab7) — 8/27/2024 @ 1:21 pmProblem is that Jordan is not a regulator, and Congress is prohibited from regulating social media content (First Amendment).
And yet he’s complaining about being told what to allow.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/27/2024 @ 2:28 pmHogan and Alsobrooks tied in Maryland
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/27/2024 @ 2:40 pmwhembly (477db6) — 8/27/2024 @ 7:31 am
Being accused of having a political motivation for the prosecution. Smith is unsupervised, and supposedly impartial, or at least without a boss appointed by the president.
They also don’t want to destroy the system the Bill Clinton Administration worked out.
The alternative might be a return to the appointment of a special prosecutor by a panel of federal judges, or no shielding (and no non-dismissiability without a lot of noise from “breaking glass”) for a prosecutor dealing with a politically sensitive investigation.
Of course what Clinton did was have supposedly independent and accidental Attorney general Janet Reno (Clinton maneuvered her appointment so that she looked like his third choice but I think he always had her in mind. And she was involved in the preparations for the murder of the Branch Davidians at Waco by calling for the shrinkage of the perimeter while everyone who could have objected was off the weekend) first appoint a special prosecutor during a break in the law (with the hopes that the federal judges would ratify the appointment of Robert B. Fiske Jr which would have resulted in the pulling of all investigations of Bill Clinton into the hands of lawyer whom Bill Clinton could trust – he had represented Goldman Sachs and Robert E. Rubin in the insider trading cases and eventually concocted a false crime that Robert Freeman could plead guilty to that did not lead to any higher ups. This settlement was accepted after Giuliani had quit to run for mayor the first time. Fiske complained about a leak when I think he was the source of the leak. You have to read between the lines in the book “Den of Thieves” by James Stewart. You need to know that Michael Milken was not the main investigation that Giuliani was pursuing – it was Goldman Sachs and Robert E. Rubin was the next higher fish..) Clinton was close to Goldman Sachs. It endorsed his “economic plan” in the 1992 election (which he promptly dropped after being elected. He tried to make it look like the Republicans were more partisan than the Democrats by having his budget pass with one vote – and not one from any Republican – in both the House and the Senate but it didn’t fool people and the Republicans gained control of Congress in both houses in the 1994 election)
…and later President Clinton had Janet Reno call for the appointment of many special prosecutors, except for the case that endangered Clinton – campaign finance violation particularly involving China in the 1996 election.
Under the special prosecutor law that prevailed in the 1990s the judges appointed the special prosecutor but they didn’t get to appoint one unless the Attorney General called for one and Janet Reno never found cause.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 8/27/2024 @ 2:40 pmoOmetimes, Sammy, you should provide diagrams.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/27/2024 @ 2:42 pm288. Time123 (05a49c) — 8/27/2024 @ 9:23 am
Someone complained on the air today that Google is no longer steering people to Donald Trump’s original 1989 ad in the New York Times except to text that’s too blurry to read.
The point they say is that Donald Trump never mentioned the Central Park five in his ad, only calling for the death penalty for people who murder policemen (ad something else)
It was commonly assumed that the jogger would die and also that the boys (who had indeed been “wilding” but just never encountered the jogger) or some of those arrested had been responsible for the rape and assault.
Actually it a classic example of the prisoner’s dilemma.
Ref: https://www.nytimes.com/1989/05/01/nyregion/angered-by-attack-trump-urges-return-of-the-death-penalty.html
But they say now, Trump never specifically mentioned the boys or that case, but muggers and murderers in general, and he didn’t declare anyone guilty of anything, but they don’t want people to analyze the ad and see what’s in it because
https://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/23/nyregion/trump-draws-criticism-for-ad-he-ran-after-jogger-attack.html
It ws the prisoner’s dilemma.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma#:~:text=The%20prisoner's%20dilemma%20is%20a,worked%20at%20the%20RAND%20Corporation.
What this teaches us is that neither need be guilty for the prisoner’s dilemma to work – only the prisoners need believe that the other person(s) did it.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 8/27/2024 @ 3:05 pmKevin M (a9545f) — 8/27/2024 @ 2:42 pm
It deserves much more space, and I was doing this from memory and impromptu. And I left out some important details. And some details I forgot for now.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 8/27/2024 @ 3:07 pmImportant details like the reason Cllinto engineered the murder of the Branch Davidians at Waco.
Friend of Bill J William Buford, head of the BATF in Little Rock (operating as leader of the “New Orleans” group in the raid had murdered three of his own men (whom Clinton on March 17, 1993 in a speech to employees pf the Treasury Department, said had been assigned to his own security at one point – which couldn’t be true. (This was to create a red herring for why they were killed. It had nothing to do with them seeing something embarrassing to Clinton. It had to do with Buford wanting to justify the raid in retrospect.
Justify the raid by “proving” how dangerous Koresh was by showing him to be a murderer. That’s why they didn’t want him to surrender because it would all come out. Still there was KWTX-TV videotape showing a man who has to be Buford firing a machine gun at 3 of his own men who had just entered a room on the second floor.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 8/27/2024 @ 3:29 pmBuford’s name is on the Waco search warrant affidavit and he added sexual allegations in January 1993.
The various dates in the search warrant affidavit also track Clinton’s election prospects, with the investigation stopping in June1992 when Ross Perot was leading or close and not resuming until after the 1992 election.
Buford in the warrant
Notice he first talked to her without recording anything and then two days later arranged a recorded communication. Bill Clinton was in Little Rock at that time.
.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 8/27/2024 @ 3:32 pmThe connection between Clinton and Buford: Possibly Buford’s botching of the investigation of the first attempt to murder Alice McArthur (by bombing)
I think Clinton wanted to merge ATF into the FBI ad appoint Buford to a high ranking position.
The Wall Street Journal on March 9. 1993 identified Buford as a “Friend of Bill” (They were doing a story on a day in the life of the president)
And there’s more I wrote in 1995.
Buford had also tried to make himself a hero in 1985 in another raid..
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 8/27/2024 @ 3:36 pmNaturally, (following the logic of this theory) I also think that Bill Clinton had something to do with the Oklahoma bombing (to derail Congressional hearings)
There is the matter of a key to safe deposit box in Little Rock Arkansas that was in the possession of Terry Nichols.
And trying to make Timothy McVeigh the leader and Terry Nichols the followers instead of vice versa.
Merrick Garland supervised the prosecution
https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/politics/2023/10/03/ag-merrick-garland-tied-to-oklahoma-city-bombing-trial/71032201007
Considering what he did with Biden it seems more likely than before that Merrick Garland was following presidential orders then.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 8/27/2024 @ 3:47 pmI remember one thing Schumer did at the Waco hearing: He wanted to make sure that everyone agreed at least on this That the Davidians started the fire.
(actually it was CS tear gas)
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 8/27/2024 @ 3:48 pmHard to believe — but I trust H. R. McMaster on this:
And in return for which we received?
(For some time I have thought that it is fair to conclude that the Loser surrendered to the Taliban — and that the Biden administration executed the Loser’s surrender, poorly.)
Jim Miller (64f7f5) — 8/27/2024 @ 3:59 pmSammy is really on a roll with his conspiracy theories.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/27/2024 @ 4:25 pmJack Smith has filed a superseding indictment against former President Trump:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/27/2024 @ 4:37 pmRelated:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/27/2024 @ 4:43 pmMy friend the Trump fan, who previously fell prey to all sorts of 2020 election conspiracy theories, later seized on Zuckerberg’s actions in 2020 to argue that the 2020 election was rigged.
I’m not sure that’s what Trump meant at the time, but don’t tell my friend that.
norcal (1678e2) — 8/27/2024 @ 4:56 pmYeah, math is a hard thing. The Biden White House pushing Meta to do something for the 20 election shows some basic math problems.
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Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/27/2024 @ 5:11 pmThe Biden White House pushing Meta to do something for the 20 election shows some basic math problems. Like the difference between positive and negative numbers?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/27/2024 @ 5:21 pmColonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/27/2024 @ 5:11 pm
How is that really different than First Edition Elvis Dinner Plates?
Oh, wait, you can eat off the dinner plates.
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Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/27/2024 @ 5:24 pmA paper card is the thing you get for sending trump $7500.
That and a warm glow.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/27/2024 @ 5:26 pmUkraine Deploys F-16s Against Russian Barrage but Says It Needs More
But wait. I’ve been reliably told that Russia would wipe them out of the sky.
And more:
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Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/27/2024 @ 5:29 pmMears – ONE OF THE LARGEST MEMORABILIA AUTHENTICATORS
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Man, I thought those all sold out. They were limited editions and all that.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/27/2024 @ 5:31 pmDid fat Elvis run for president?
This guy was, and maybe again, president. Now we have a senile old man, instead of just a moron who is showing mild senility (his best feature).
So Harris will be president, hopefully not the stupid senile old man hocking trading cards.
He’s currently got Guam up for bid for 1,000,000 Trump Traiting Cards.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/27/2024 @ 6:05 pmThe Guam offer is a limited one, only 3 will be sold. Don’t dawdle and the limited edition Guam Island (digital trading island).
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/27/2024 @ 6:09 pmIt’s still early yet. Let’s see how many F-16s remain in a couple of months. Their airfields will take a pounding.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/27/2024 @ 6:17 pmAnd if Ukraine tries to attack Russia or Crimea directly the F-16s will have a very tough time with Russian air defenses.
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Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/27/2024 @ 6:24 pmIn an effort to resurrect a “dead” Witch Hunt in Washington, D.C., in an act of desperation, and in order to save face, the illegally appointed “Special Counsel” Deranged Jack Smith, has brought a ridiculous new Indictment against me, which has all the problems of the old Indictment, and should be dismissed IMMEDIATELY. His Florida Document Hoax Case has been completely dismissed. This is merely an attempt to INTERFERE WITH THE ELECTION, and distract the American People from the catastrophes Kamala Harris has inflicted on our Nation, like the Border Invasion, Migrant Crime, Rampant Inflation, the threat of World War III, and more…
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/27/2024 @ 7:01 pmyou can, for a limited time, buy an unlimited amount of limited addition Trump Traiting Cards.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/27/2024 @ 5:11 pm
Definitely not a cult
norcal (1678e2) — 8/27/2024 @ 7:27 pmAnd he will sell the mailing list to his campaign to be paid for with donor money.
And the grift goes on.
nk (818719) — 8/27/2024 @ 8:20 pmThere was a New Yorker article that talked too researchers about low information voters, and the sort of inbreeding (my word) of the MAGA fellowship. It’s all internal, all “news” comes from social media, but don’t trust the social media company from fact checking, because they’re part of the conspiracy. Only info from inside the tent is real, anything that contradicts it, including witnessing reality, is suspect.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/27/2024 @ 8:31 pmAnd the Trump’s campaign response.
Heh!
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/27/2024 @ 8:47 pmTo be fair, Colonel, if the Trump campaign actually did nothing wrong, the video footage proving they did nothing wrong…would probably not be wrong, as it probably would have been taken in the process of permitted activities.
I mean, I don’t believe Cheung either. And I admit the irony is delicious. Just the pedant in me.
Demosthenes (e19dd3) — 8/27/2024 @ 9:52 pmSeveral of my customers are trumpsters fortunately convicted felons (at least one is) so can’t vote for orange jesus and tell me all evidence of trump lying is false or fake news.
asset (f2456f) — 8/27/2024 @ 9:58 pmAt best, a shopkeeper who has always lived above the store.
When he orders the USS Nimitz to dock at Shanghai, will we be allowed to question the 71.3 billion yuan ($10 billion in dollars) deposited in his Cayman Islands account or would it be barred as questioning his motives behind an official act?
nk (6bd4c0) — 8/28/2024 @ 6:25 amRussian missiles and drones don’t shoot back. Just wait until the Ukrainian pilots confront Russian pilots or air defense systems over Ukraine. It won’t be pretty.
Rip Murdock (19ebb8) — 8/28/2024 @ 7:16 amOr Putin could send a battalion of Russian prostitutes — they say they’re the best in the world — to seduce the Ukrainian pilots and keep them from flying at all.
Applying the appropriate force to the appropriate object is something that even people who pick flowers know. Ukraine will use F-16s against opponents they can destroy and keep them away from opponents that can destroy them.
nk (459117) — 8/28/2024 @ 8:30 amOK, I am going to do a Rip here — because this is William Kristol, who I usually do not love. However, he has put his finger on why I have had, for years, such a visceral reaction to MAGA and thise who worship its works:
Appalled (e30401) — 8/28/2024 @ 8:45 amExcept that you didn’t provide a link……😉
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/28/2024 @ 9:50 amAppalled — that’s Trump’s personality, though. It’s hardly a surprise that MAGA follows in his footsteps, and that aspect of his personality might even be why he’s so appealing to his fans.
aphrael (9c2ac5) — 8/28/2024 @ 10:04 am@334, exactly. Now there has always been an element of this on both sides of the spectrum, so it’s not unique to Trumpism…or even right-wing politics. There have been dog whistles for millennia. What’s jarring is that it was not as dominating of a perspective on the Right…or at least it never felt that way.
I’ve made this observation about our own in-house MAGA. It seemed that there was a preoccupation with what others were doing…as if everyone must have the same views and act the same way. It was rationalized that it was culture and that culture transcends politics…or whatever the exact Breitbart quote was. But it is nastier now. There’s a good bit of slander and conclusion-drawing. It’s existential and apocryphal. It seems like a component of the Hungarian Orban lesson…and general nastiness that comes from social media. This is supposedly “winning”; I’m just not sure in the end it builds governing coalitions. We ain’t Hungary….
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 8/28/2024 @ 10:19 am> We ain’t Hungary….
But we *could* be, and MAGA *wants us* to be.
aphrael (9c2ac5) — 8/28/2024 @ 10:22 amColonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/27/2024 @ 5:04 pm
Mark Zuckerberg didn’t say the Biden White House pushed Meta to do something for the 20 election. He said the FBI did that. And he didn’t say, as has been repeated on right wing talk radio, that the FBI warned them that there would be Russian disinformation about Hunter Biden. He said the FBI warned them there would be disinformation (no direct object)
That as the second item in the letter. The first was that the Biden Administration pressured them on Covid in 2021. He was probably referring to things that Jim Jordan had previously contacted Meta about. Tat’s why he said nothing about Covid in 2020.
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 8/28/2024 @ 10:52 amGoodfellas meets Deliverance.
nk (d73ea9) — 8/28/2024 @ 2:25 pmHe wants to say there is an bad (lying and corrupt) influence on the Democratic Party in Minnesota.
He doesn’t want to sound like he is a racist, so he doesn’t say what group of people this is who he talking about and gives a completely wrong opinion as to why politics is that way in Minnesota.
And there’s a question if it is a group, or just a number of organized networking crooks who have managed to get into positions of influence.
The group Comer has in mind are Somalis. Only they are refugees from a dictatorial Socialist/Communist government which all got started because of the assassination of the president of Somalia in 1969.
The reason they are largely Somalis and not American born blacks who are descended from generations of American born blacks who lived in Minnesota is because people raised in the ghettos who don’t come from a different background are all too poorly educated and too involved with street crime to become white collar crooks. But the Somalis had good parents. And then also maybe there weren’t too many African Americans in Minneapolis before whoever started this had to involve Somalis. It’s just like the fact that drug dealers came in the 1980s from the rural south and not from where they sold drugs.
Incidentally, Walz is incredibly stupid about China, or liked the honor and attention he was given by China.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 8/28/2024 @ 2:26 pmOtherwise how could there be all this to do about migrant crime? When we all know street crime is overwhelmingly done by (mostly black, though in some communities maybe other) (mostly male) people raised in the city who become friends with each other, whose friends don’t live with fathers (it’s not whether they themselves don’t have fathers but whether their friends don’t have fathers) who attended failing public schools?
Who are they trying to gaslight?
And the slander and the cruelty never gets directly challenged by the Democrats.
.Joe Biden made an attempt to challenge that by an ad lib during his State of the Union message but we don’t see much of that.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 8/28/2024 @ 2:41 pm#340 refers to what?
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 8/28/2024 @ 2:42 pmDana,
Further to our recent exchange about Langer’s deli and the associated crime around McArthur Park, here’s a short thread from Ken White about his lunch this week at Langer’s, and what he saw in the neighborhood.
lurker (c23034) — 8/28/2024 @ 4:03 pmIt’s weird that the highest crime rates are in poor areas. Appalachia, yup. Indian Rez, yup. Inner city, yup.
Weird, poor desperate people do desperate things more often than comfortable people.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/28/2024 @ 4:42 pmGee, why in the world would she fear that?
lurker (c23034) — 8/28/2024 @ 8:57 pmShe shouldn’t fear anything. Trump told the Proud Boys to stand back and stand by, remember?
norcal (878b4a) — 8/28/2024 @ 10:18 pmYeah, I think those orders were rescinded on Jan. 6.
lurker (c23034) — 8/28/2024 @ 10:52 pmAnd now, predictably, Trump’s claim that he had permission to film from the families of the Arlington grave sites falls apart too.
So, to sum up, Team Trump desecrated our most sacred national burial site by turning it into a campaign promo, physically and verbally abused the cemetery worker who asked them to show the legally required respect, publicly smeared her character and mental stability, and now it turns out they lied about having permission from the families of the grave sites shown in the video, permission which, by the way, even if obtained wouldn’t have rendered their stunt any less illegal.
Trump is such a bag of wet garbage.
lurker (c23034) — 8/28/2024 @ 10:53 pmJ.D. Vance:
As David Frum astutely observes, it reminds one of the McGregor The Pier Builder joke. (Frum calls it McGregor the boatbuilder, but that’s probably because he’s a RINO moby). Anyway, if you don’t know the joke, I encourage you to read it before looking at Frum’s Vance-inspired take.
lurker (c23034) — 8/29/2024 @ 12:54 amOne, of course Trump lied about having permission for his photo-op at Arlington National Cemetery, per the US Army.
Two, the Army also confirmed that Trump’s staff bullied a female cemetery official; she’s not pressing charges out of fear of “retaliation”, which means the bullies got away with it.
Three, and of course Trump was exploiting dead American veterans who served our country honorably, all for a crass and misleading political stunt.
In this I agree with Marshall…
I don’t recall Trump going to Arlington Cemetery to honor the 100 or so fallen soldiers under his watch, but I doubt he did such a thing. Nope, just the 13 while Biden was prez.
Paul Montagu (5764e3) — 8/29/2024 @ 9:05 amTrump is a sick amoral f-ck for attempting such a scheme.
Cashing in on Trump’s Arlington Cemetery visit:
I think Cox is going to be disappointed if he thinks Trump will follow through on what Cox wrote to Trump on July 14, 2024:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/29/2024 @ 9:15 amIf you think the bigger scandal is Trump taking photos in front of military tombstones (but crickets when Biden does it) and not that the Biden/Harris’ incompetence got 13 Marines killed and Biden proceeded to be rude to their grieving families, please get your head examined.
Should it be handled better? Sure.
But the Gold Star families invited Trump, presumptively to cast a bright light over this.
whembly (477db6) — 8/29/2024 @ 9:19 amWhether or not Trump was invited or not, or if the families gave permission or not is irrelevant. The families have no authority to grant permission for photographs or filming in the Cemetery. To use such pictures (and video) in a campaign advertising or fundraising, and to appear smiling and giving the thumbs up over gravesites of fallen military is obscene. I doubt you could find pictures of President Biden (or any other President) doing the same.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/29/2024 @ 9:37 amFor example; nary a smile or thumbs up in sight.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/29/2024 @ 9:48 am@354 Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/29/2024 @ 9:37 am
Yeah, I don’t care.
This is a media driven, hypocritical outrage.
It’s like this:
GOLD STAR FAMILY – “We asked Trump to be there and asked to take pictures with him ”
Yeah, there’s plenty Biden doing the same thing.
https://x.com/joebiden/status/1799109329150251386?s=12&t=LbMzhpSB3yC2zvXzo7p_lA
That’s just one example…
Biden/Harris used the caskets of dead service members and video from ARlington “in a political ad” and you (and the media) didn’t even get off your arse to bitch about it. You can even see the names on those grave stones there.
But it’s Trump. You and the media are outraged that he drinks water.
MEDIA – “I’m gonna call up the families of the names on the gravestones to find some way to crap on those Gold Star families and by extension make a big deal about it because Trump is there”.
whembly (477db6) — 8/29/2024 @ 9:56 am@356 wow… formatting got jacked.
Trying again…
@354 Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/29/2024 @ 9:37 am
Yeah, I don’t care.
This is a media driven, hypocritical outrage.
It’s like this:
GOLD STAR FAMILY – “We asked Trump to be there and asked to take pictures with him ”
MEDIA – “I’m gonna call up the families of the names on the gravestones to find some way to crap on those Gold Star families and by extension make a big deal about it because Trump is there”.
Yeah, there’s plenty Biden doing the same thing.
https://x.com/joebiden/status/1799109329150251386?s=12&t=LbMzhpSB3yC2zvXzo7p_lA
That’s just one example…
Biden/Harris used the caskets of dead service members and video from ARlington “in a political ad” and you (and the media) didn’t even get off your arse to bitch about it. You can even see the names on those grave stones there.
But it’s Trump. You and the media are outraged that he drinks water.
whembly (477db6) — 8/29/2024 @ 9:57 amwhembly, I haven’t said which “scandal” was bigger or smaller, only that what Trump did was pathetic, amoral and un-American. All he had to do was follow the rules but instead turned it into a self-made clusterf-ck.
Paul Montagu (5764e3) — 8/29/2024 @ 10:00 amThat’s obvious.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/29/2024 @ 10:03 am@358
Gold Star family invited Trump and he *hung* out with them during the visit.
Sure… a clusterf-ck.
Lemme find my eyeballs, they rolled behind my chair…
whembly (477db6) — 8/29/2024 @ 10:41 am@359
Gold Star families gets a ton of grace from me. They invited Trump.
The outrage really should be about the incompetence of the Biden/Harris administration that led to the death of these service men/women.
whembly (477db6) — 8/29/2024 @ 10:43 amCrims gonna crime. Sick-o-fants gonna suck-o.
Just because it’s illegal doesn’t mean orange man can’t do it, he’s a special snowflake.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/29/2024 @ 10:45 amJ6 is OK, because Trump invited his fans in. Not a big deal.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/29/2024 @ 10:47 am@363
Objection. Statement assumes facts not in evidence.
whembly (477db6) — 8/29/2024 @ 10:53 amCorrect, there is no evidence that Trump was “invited” to Arlington. There is evidence that Trump invited the families to be in his campaign stop.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/29/2024 @ 11:01 amEarlier this month, Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump’s campaign contacted military officials about visiting Arlington National Cemetery to mark the third anniversary of the Islamic State bombing that killed 13 U.S. service members during the evacuation from Afghanistan.
Officials said they wanted to respect the wishes of grieving family members who wanted Trump there, but at the same time were wary of Trump’s record of politicizing the military. So they laid out ground rules they hoped would wall off politics from the final resting place of those who paid the ultimate sacrifice for their nation.
Instead, they got sucked into exactly the kind of crisis they were hoping to avoid.
Defense officials were concerned about the event Monday because Republicans have frequently used the bombing, a low point of the Biden administration, as a political cudgel. In advance of the event, cemetery officials told Trump’s team that he could come in his personal capacity and bring personal aides, but not campaign staff. Campaign advisers went anyway.
No hats, signs or banners were allowed, according to military officials. No speeches. Reporters and photographers could follow Trump for a ceremony at the Tomb of the Unknowns, but not to the 14-acre plot where veterans from recent wars are buried, known as Section 60. The media was kept away, unable to see the altercation — or anything else, for that matter — during that part of his visit.
The first part went according to plan. With full media coverage, Trump and two Marines injured in the bombing, Tyler Vargas-Andrews and Kelsee Lainhart, laid a wreath at the tomb, a monument dedicated to deceased U.S. troops whose remains have not been identified or recovered. The press then returned to a holding area, specifically instructed that reporters and cameras would not accompany Trump and bereaved families to Section 60.
But Trump officials said they did not view the campaign’s own photographer and videographer as subject to the same restrictions, so they continued on to Section 60. Their arrival there prompted the standoff with the cemetery employee over the rules. The identity of the Trump aide involved was not known Wednesday.
The incident has raised concerns about the safety of Arlington staff members, the senior defense official said, with vitriol aimed at them initially on Monday by liberals, after the news coverage of Trump at the cemetery was published. That has given way to language from conservatives that also is “concerning.”
“If the campaign feels the need to defend their team’s actions — which include bullying and physically pushing out of the way a longtime public servant and member of the team at Arlington working to protect the sanctity of the sacred spaces — then that’s on them,” one defense official said. “The rules were made clear to participants, and these two chose to disregard those rules. End of story.”
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/29/2024 @ 11:11 am@365
Those families are on record in saying they invited him.
whembly (477db6) — 8/29/2024 @ 11:35 amWhere’s the “record”? Who asked them to create a “record”? It’s fake news that that they created a “record”.
I’m inviting you to pick up some gold bars at Fort Knox, it’s fine, you’re invited.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/29/2024 @ 11:57 amThe event was created by the Trump campaign for the Trump campaign.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/29/2024 @ 12:00 pmThose families are on record in saying they invited him.
Sure! And Trump is on record as having a full head of beautiful strawberry blond hair.
There is a report of one (1) family member, but it sounds like she was invited, and not the one doing the inviting. She just went along with Trump’s cheap Chinese Lee Atwater knockoff, Steven “Fat Mao” Cheung:
nk (e756be) — 8/29/2024 @ 12:16 pm@368 @369
https://t.co/DudzQTvjEI https://t.co/TWvMGsb1QP
“We, WE extended the invitation to President Trump. We are the ones that asked him to come. We are the ones that asked him to assist in laying a wreath for our son, and for the shooting for, Sergeant Canals and for Cole. We’re the ones that asked that. President Trump didn’t come to us. His team didn’t come to us and say, hey, this would be good for business. Business? No. President Trump has stood by us from day one. He has been compassionate. He has been loving. He’s been understanding. He’s taking the mantle of our outrage a little bit. Because to be quite honest with you, being very frank, we haven’t heard diddly squat from the current administration in three years,”
You either misinformed, or outright lying.
So given the above, which is it?
whembly (477db6) — 8/29/2024 @ 12:49 pmWhembly, whembly, whembly. You’re being willfully misinformed.
Also, it’s illegal to take photos, put on a campaign event, or, you know, do all the things he did. And, they were told…weeks in advance…when they were planning it…before they were “invited”.
It’s weird how they were planning an event and told they couldn’t take photos, before they were “invited”.
It’s the miracle of foretelling that the campaign asked for permission, were denied, then got someone to “invite” them.
Again, the invitation is irrelevant, even if it wasn’t obvious bullstuff. Illegal means it’s a crime, but if it’s by a 34 time felon, it’s a good crime.
Imagine, if you will, if it was another former president who has no special access to Arlington showed up and started filming a commercial.
But really, the important question is, did you buy your limited edition digital Trump Traiting Cards? It’s what any loyal MAGAt would do.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/29/2024 @ 1:03 pmI think part of the reason this Arl cemetery story has gotten legs is that it fits the patterns of some of Trumps’s negatives, specifically about being a disorganized bully.
A competent advance team wouldn’t have had things organized and coordinated with the cemetery and there wouldn’t have been any problems.
A competent event team would have been able to defuse the situation without the conflict and there wouldn’t have been much of story.
A competent media team would have pulled the information together to minimize the story to shorten the story life.
Instead it was a messy story with high conflict around Trump refusing to follow the rules, allegations of physical altercations with some cemetery worker, mutually contradictory explanations and ongoing development of events and details which allows for the news to keep talking about as new information emerges.
Sarah Isgar had a good point on a recent LRC that it’s the ‘mistakes’ that confirm the pre-existing negatives about the candidate that really grow legs or have an impact.
I expect when Harris does something to confirm her unpreparedness or shifting policies that it will have an outsize impact.
Time123 (87d324) — 8/29/2024 @ 1:19 pmhttps://www.nationalreview.com/news/god-help-us-john-kelly-confirms-trump-mocked-veterans-during-arlington-memorial-service/
Right. What looks good is standing next to Arlington graves of the recently fallen and giving a thumbs up.
None of this should be a surprise, given what Trump said about McCain in 2015–“I like people who weren’t captured.”
norcal (878b4a) — 8/29/2024 @ 1:25 pm@361, Given the situation and planning on the retreat when he took office I’m not sure how much better the retreat from Afghanistan could have gone. I think pulling out was a mistake FWIW but removing that many people, that much equipment, that quickly with 13 casualties doesn’t sound like a large catastrophe to me. 1 death is 1 death too many but I don’t share your conclusion that it was an incompetent disaster by Biden / Harris.
I would like to have seen a better investigation of the military and diplomatic planning and some accountability there. But the details have partisan impact (Trump did the planning and Biden did the execution) so I wasn’t hopeful that would happen.
Time123 (87d324) — 8/29/2024 @ 1:27 pmShould be investigation of planning and execution….
Time123 (87d324) — 8/29/2024 @ 1:28 pmTrump and Pompeo have no desire for an actual investigation. Like the border, it’s great to run against the idea of Biden being responsible for it all. The truth is a bit more complicated.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/29/2024 @ 1:42 pm@372 Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/29/2024 @ 1:03 pm
I’m done with you.
You’ve lost the plot.
You’re more angry at this, than the current administration’s actual f-ckups at the Afghan withdrawal that led to the death of those service men.
There’s no point with you.
whembly (477db6) — 8/29/2024 @ 2:01 pmWhembly is right that it’s “But Trump,” that is why there will be no consequences for the violations at Arlington Cemetery. Even though the staffer has declined to file charges, the Army could refer the issue to the Department of Justice, but has also declined to do so.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/29/2024 @ 2:05 pmTranscript oof Kamal Harris’ acceptance speech at the Democratic National convention Thursday August 22, 2024
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/23/us/politics/kamala-harris-speech-transcript.html
It is divided into several parts.
First comes her biography, in which she says: “my entire career, I’ve only had one client: the people.” (it seems to be actually true, in the sense that she never had any private clients and never worked as a defense attorney) She names types of people she says she stood up for.
Then come attacks against Donald Trump in which she says: “he only client he has ever had: [was] himself. I have to rate her attacks against him as more false than true.
Then she makes promises and praises herself.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 8/29/2024 @ 2:07 pmThere is only one place on her speech that Kamala Harris seems to get into the nitty gritty of policy, and that is the war in Gaza.
She said that Donald Trump is not a serious man, but she can’t be serious with this:
Well, you can’t do that by papering over the differences between Israeli negotiating position and that of Hamas
As Harry Maryles wrote on his blog:
Now she (and Joe Biden) could be serious (or attempt to be serious) if there was a covert action finding to help Israel to kill Yahya Sinwar, the leader of Hamas, on the premise that Hamas will dissolve if he is dead, which they are no doubt being assured by the leaders of the United Arab Emirates or other Arab mediators..
Rabbi Harry Maryles believes that they can’t destroy Hamas (and all other terrorist groups) And I think he’s wrong about how popular Hamas is among people who have lost people in the war.
But what he believes is in giving up on never again but just trying to get:
Israel going back to watching Hamas – only this time doing it better – and having enough military control of the border Gaza has with Egypt to prevent Iran from re-arming Hamas.
This too is not in prospect, and if it happens Gaza will never be rebuilt; nobody in the Middle East will dare to contemplate any kind of peace agreement, and by the way, you won’t get all the hostages released. Without the destruction of Hamas, that is a pipe dream.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 8/29/2024 @ 2:08 pmRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/29/2024 @ 2:05 pm
I think I remember something like this happened before.
The issue is whether or not the rule against making political use of Arlington National Cemetery only applies if the use is live or blatant.
The recording (which is not overtly political) could be done with permission of the family of those whose graves can be seen.
Use of that recording for political purposes is not inevitable
But was there an altercation?
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 8/29/2024 @ 2:12 pmChris LaCivita, the Trump campaign senior consultant and spokesman who publicly called the Arlington National Cemetery worker who urged Trump to comply with cemetery rules “despicable,” now is now trying to trigger the U.S. Army for defending the dignity of fallen American heroes.
Trump and his most ardent toadies have no bottom.
lurker (c23034) — 8/29/2024 @ 2:13 pmWhembly, I get being upset about those 13 deaths 3 years ago. That seems reasonable. But I don’t get why you’re struggling to understand why this is a story.
As an analogy:
I’m still upset about the millions of COVID deaths in America. I think we could argue over who gets the blame for those deaths, but to me Trump really bungled our response and gets a lot of blame there. I think it’s fair for me to be upset.
If today, a vaccine company was giving a tour of their labs, and the Harris campaign reached out to a vaccine company and said “Hey we want to come tour the vaccine lab,” and the vaccine company said, OK, but here are some ground rules: no photos of our equipment, and then a person who had lost someone to COVID reached out to the Harris campaign and said, “Hey, we’re gonna be at this tour and you should come too,” so far everything is cool.
But when they get to the lab and try to take pictures of the equipment they were explicitly forbidden from taking pictures of, and then someone tries to stop them, and then someone on the Harris campaign physically assaults one of the lab workers, and then the Harris campaign says lol, we were invited and also, that person was mentally unhinged, and also we have video evidence that none of this is true, and then don’t provide any video, it’s going to be a story. And if the person who was assaulted doesn’t feel comfortable coming forward because they are worried that their physical safety will be in jeopardy because when people speak up about this stuff that’s what happens, that kind of sucks.
And if I hear this story, and my response is “Why would anyone care about this? Isn’t the real story the Millions of people who died of COVID?” it would come off as weird, because like, obviously this is going to be a story.
Nate (be5ee2) — 8/29/2024 @ 2:16 pmAlso, to be clear, my view on this could easily be changed by the Trump campaign releasing the video they say they have that exonerates them, and if it in fact shows someone who was like, rolling around on the ground having a mental health issue, and the “assault” was the Trump staff putting up their hands to keep themselves safe, my opinion on how big a story this is would change.
But do you think they will actually release the video they say they have? I don’t. Do you think it would actually show a mentally unhinged cemetery staff member and chill Trump staffers? I don’t.
And the (presumed) fact that like, someone just doing their job gets assaulted, then disparaged by the campaign, and now has to fear for their safety for just being part of this incident is… not good. And we’re past the point where anyone is really surprised. Like, you’re not even bothered by it. It’s just the new normal I guess. And that’s … not good.
Nate (be5ee2) — 8/29/2024 @ 2:22 pmwhembly (477db6) — 8/29/2024 @ 10:43 am
Well, you could say, it was the way they let the prisoners at Bagram be released (one became the suicide bomber) but how could they have prevented that?
Or you could say it was expecting to be able to get the Americans out before the fall of Kabul. Expecting them to fight after there was no hope. But this kind of mistake was deeply ingrained in the thinking of the U.S. military.
Or you could say it was the rules of engagement. The probable suicide bomber was spotted but they couldn’t get permission to shoot him because it wasn’t certain. And they didn’t take a different precaution either.
Then a day or so later they made the opposite mistake and killed an innocent person along with members of his family on the premise that he was another suicide bomber.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 8/29/2024 @ 2:29 pm#373
Do not discount the idea that Trump is perfectly content having the story unspool this way. He gets to rail about the media, send forth the usual idiots making the usual denials, and show off his callous evil cred to all the super fans who get off on this stuff. I wish the guilty party who assaulted the guard at the cemetery had been detained and booked, but understand why she does not want to be a target of the flying monkeys.
Since Trump can’t have Biden as his opponent, he’s going back to the 2016 greatest hits. With luck, we only have less than 70 days of this variety of garbage.
Appalled (2569cc) — 8/29/2024 @ 2:42 pmThe only codeword puzzle I can regularly filll out is the New York Tomes mini crossword. I was surprised to read (on page 2 of Tuesday’s newspaper) it was ten years old because I’ve only seen it in the newspaper for a year or two. I thought they started it to get people to continue to get the printed paper.
I can usually fill out 2 or 3 answers right away and know enough about other things to either guess the answer from the bad clue (many clues are bad) or my incomplete knowledge is enough to get the answer when I have 2 or 3 letters. Like I will recognize astrological signs but not be able to name many of them or recognize the word “cusp” has some connection to astrology.
It is much easier to do on paper than online.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 8/29/2024 @ 2:58 pmwhembly,
If you’re going to whatabout, please answer this:
1. Did Biden or his campaign illegally use Arlington grave site footage in a campaign video which it released despite being warned of the video’s illegality?
2. Did Biden or his campaign desecrate Arlington and disrespect a Gold Star family by creating a grinning, thumbs up video of Biden in view of the grave site of a multi-decorated Green Beret who took his own life after eight combat tours and whose family gave no permission to make or release the video?
3. Did Biden or his campaign lie about having the permission mentioned in 3, above?
4. Did Biden or his campaign physically assault and publicly berate the Arlington Cemetery worker who urged him to comply with Cemetery regulations and law?
5. Did Biden or his campaign publicly and shamelessly troll the U.S. Army for defending the dignity of fallen American heroes?
If the answers to those questions are “yes,” then at least your whatabouting isn’t a flagrant false equivalence. But of course we know the answers to none of those questions is “yes.”
So, last question, had it in fact been Biden and his campaign who did 1-5, above, what do you suppose you would be saying about it now?
lurker (c23034) — 8/29/2024 @ 3:04 pm*in <strong>2 above*
lurker (c23034) — 8/29/2024 @ 3:06 pm@384
I’ve already agreed that it could’ve been handled much better.
Remember, Speaker Johnson and other congress-critter pushed for this to happen as well.
I simply don’t care about the anti-Trump reaction because THIS. IS. WHAT. THE. GOLD. STAR. FAMILIES. wanted.
That’s it. That should be the end of it.
We should have more grace and compassion here.
This wasn’t some obnoxious ploy that dinegrates the other fallen soldiers. This was about the fallen Abbygate marines and these families wanted Trump there for mariad of reasons, which prominently imho, was these families desires to keep the disaster of the retreat in Afghanistan in the news, politically and Trump is their vehicle. Because the current Biden/Harris administration has done jack, and jack left town.
whembly (477db6) — 8/29/2024 @ 3:07 pmWorth Reading: This David Ignatius column:
Ignatius had served two combat tours in Iraq, and knew about the dangers now facing many elected officials:
The threats to his family were too much, so he left the House in April.
Jim Miller (bf4cd1) — 8/29/2024 @ 3:07 pmDon’t know what happened with that html tag, but the point is I obviously typo’d “3” instead of “2.”
lurker (c23034) — 8/29/2024 @ 3:08 pmGallagher, not Ignatius, served those tours, of course.
He’s had an impressive career, serving our nation.
Jim Miller (bf4cd1) — 8/29/2024 @ 3:10 pm@389
I don’t care to answer these questions because 1) the framing is purposely inflammatory and 2) idgaf, because the families requested his attendance.
It wouldn’t even hit the cable news wire… just some blurb on social media and print.
No where near the outrage we’re seeing today.
Biden drinks a cup a water:
….his detractors are “meh”.
Trump drinks a cup a water:
whembly (477db6) — 8/29/2024 @ 3:11 pm….his detractors loses their f’n mind.
You say that as if there’s only one Gold Star Family involved. What about the Gold Star Family whose fallen loved one’s grave site was filmed and used in a Trump campaign ad without permission. Don’t they count?
In fact that’s exactly what it was. If Trump wants to help those families make a PSA video, that’s his right and more power to him. But you know that’s not what happened. The families allowed their cause to be hijacked for an illegal campaign video, which also happened to show the gravesite of a hero whose family wants privacy, not publicity. So yes, “obnoxious ploy that dinegrates (sic) the other fallen soldiers” describes it pretty perfectly.
lurker (c23034) — 8/29/2024 @ 3:24 pmVideo of someone on television about Trump, with his claims that a Harris crowd was created with artifcoal intelligence – somehow trying to prepare is followers to disbelieve election results – or else he is unhinged which this show would prefer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_Zj5tFqog0
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 8/29/2024 @ 3:29 pm@395. Evasions noted. Your “idgaf” lack of concern for one Gold Star Family when their desire for privacy competes with another Gold Star Family’s desire for publicity is also noted. And of course your “idgaf” for the rule of law is noted as well.
lurker (c23034) — 8/29/2024 @ 3:37 pmSammy, I haven’t had much to add or argue with so I haven’t commented on them. Buy wanted to say that your las several comments have been really good. Good info and analysis. Thank you for sharing.
Time123 (28c4f2) — 8/29/2024 @ 4:01 pmThere’s a Greek saying: “He went for wool and came back shorn.”
Poor Donnie. Doesn’t anything work out for him anymore?
SO UNFAIR!
nk (620bc0) — 8/29/2024 @ 5:00 pmThe orange ghoul went to Arlington Cemetery for no other reason than to feed off the glory of fallen soldiers. Glory that all his life he has evaded and derided.
And it illustrates the character of his supporters who also think themselves entitled to things that other people have just because they want them.
nk (620bc0) — 8/29/2024 @ 5:27 pmGiven Trump’s stated position that people who join the military are suckers, I can’t imagine why anyone would’ve invited him, but to each there own, I guess.
Nic (120c94) — 8/29/2024 @ 6:09 pmGiven Trump’s stated position that people who join the military are suckers,
If you love him, then you know it’s not true, just a vile slander spread by disloyal, anti-American, anti-Christian, globalist, China-loving RINOs.
nk (daf110) — 8/29/2024 @ 7:12 pmjill stein back on ballot in ga. Thats to much democracy for DNC.
asset (14d6ea) — 8/29/2024 @ 8:39 pmjust a vile slander spread by disloyal, anti-American, anti-Christian, globalist, China-loving RINOs.
nk (daf110) — 8/29/2024 @ 7:12 pm
You’ve become rather fluent in Trumpese, nk.
norcal (2d579b) — 8/29/2024 @ 8:44 pmUS Army rebukes Trump campaign for incident at Arlington National Cemetery:
False equivalences hardest hit.
lurker (c23034) — 8/29/2024 @ 9:44 pm405. Just copy any Trump holiday greeting, norcal.
nk (5ee965) — 8/30/2024 @ 5:54 amShame alone should have dissuaded Trump and his campaign team from politicizing a military cemetery. But the millions that support him simply can’t enforce any shame upon him. That’s the awkward conclusion of our times.
The shame of sitting while the Capitol police force were mobbed, assaulted, bear-sprayed, crushed, and pummeled could never be levied by his supporters….at least not to a point of any meaning. There’s no shame in obstructing the retrieval of classified documents, it’s just spun as weaponizing the FBI and Justice Department.
The problem remains: the GOP party has no credibility in holding Trump to account….in any meaningful way. How can anyone vote to validate that dysfunctional relationship?
AJ_Liberty (0c2892) — 8/30/2024 @ 7:28 amWhembly, at 395:
you are unwilling to provide evidence that Biden has done such a thing, but you are absolutely certain that this is a case of Trump being treated unfairly by people who wouldn’t complain if Biden did it.
looks to me an awful lot like you are assuming a conclusion and then refusing to even look for evidence to back it up.
From *my* perspective, lurker is right. The family Trump was with may have requested it, but it seems insanely unlikely that the families of the soldiers in the other graves were consulted. *Their* right to dignity and privacy is violated, here.
—-
A few months ago I went to a wonderful fundraiser for a mausoleum that was built in the nineteenth century, where they run the fundraiser to raise money to pay for upkeep and building maintenance. (I live in a building that old, I know how much maintenance they need). It never once *occurred* to me to take pictures inside the mausoleum, because that would have been violating the sanctity of the space.
What Trump did here was to violate the integrity of the space for political purposes. It’s not as vile as, say, protesting at someone’s funeral, but it *is* really bad behavior. He should own up to the mistake and apologize.
aphrael (ae6b84) — 8/30/2024 @ 8:50 amStill irrelevant. Trump didn’t have to politicize his appearance with them in Section 60, but laws schmlaws to Trump, and it still disrespects all the other Gold Star families who would object to him using sacred ground for crass political purposes.
Paul Montagu (d4d407) — 8/30/2024 @ 11:21 am