Patterico's Pontifications

8/7/2024

In A Nutshell: Why Trump Must Be Defeated

Filed under: General — Dana @ 9:35 am



[guest post by Dana]

This:

I’m a conservative NeverTrumper. I would absolutely prefer a more moderate VP pick, but I also know that I belong to a microscopic constituency.

So I’ll just have to content myself with, “not being a felon and a sex abuser,” “not attempting a coup,” and “not sacrificing Ukraine to an authoritarian maniac” as the main wins for voting for Harris.

100 years from now, people will talk about the Ukraine war as pivotal. I’m not sure that any other issue is going to reach that conflict in importance.

There’s also the huge bonus of prying the conservative movement away from a deranged man who will sacrifice any person or any principle for the sake of power.

If conservatism is going to have a viable future, then Trump has to lose. He is draining the entire right of any meaningful ideology or ethos.

Trump’s hold over the once-viable Republican party must be broken because – yet again – the country can handle four years of bad policy, but it cannot survive a president who torches the Constitution.

—Dana

314 Responses to “In A Nutshell: Why Trump Must Be Defeated”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (c7b87d)

  2. 100 years from now, people will talk about the Ukraine war as pivotal. I’m not sure that any other issue is going to reach that conflict in importance.

    This is one of things that is making me less and less supportive of David French. He’s naturally entitled to his opinion, but I find ridiculous declarations like this to be very suspect. I suppose French believes that annexing part or all of Ukraine is the first step towards Russia beginning to reestablish Imperial dominance in Central and Eastern Europe. In reality, I think the Ukraine War has exposed Russia as having an ill-trained and badly-led army, equipped with inferior weaponry. It’s the sort of stuff that happens when military promotions are based upon loyalty to the regime instead of actual merit (Washington DC, take notice!).

    My prediction is that Ukraine will be the high mark — such that it is — in Vladimir Putin’s malevolent reign, and that once hostilities cease Russia will be left with a military that can’t even threaten Latvia or Lithuania, let alone Poland. And if advances in nuclear energy continue along the path that some have projected, Russian gas and oil will not be able to bail out their fetid economy, now wrecked by 2.5 years of a stalemated war.

    JVW (03ae6d)

  3. I understand and respect this point of view, but I cannot in good conscience vote for either party. I keep getting told that my choice is supporting the winner. It is not. It is where I make my stand.

    The system is broken. There needs to be a normal challenger. And all the adulation of either candidate sickens me.

    Again, my opinion only. But I want to vote for someone, not against them.

    I really do respect other opinions, even when I disagree with them. I do not think that people who disagree with me are stupid, being tools, or whatever.

    So I am kind of a party of one.

    Simon Jester (ff9c91)

  4. JVW, good comment. And think about how quickly the UK ceased to be a world power. It’s a lesson not just for Russia, but us.

    Simon Jester (ff9c91)

  5. Plus, if the settlement of hostilities includes Ukraine surrendering territory to Russia, Putin is going to have to deploy a whole lot of battalions there in order to quell insurrection and hold the territory. That doesn’t leave him with a whole lot to expand operations in Georgia or any of the “stan” countries.

    JVW (03ae6d)

  6. In reality, I think the Ukraine War has exposed Russia as having an ill-trained and badly-led army, equipped with inferior weaponry. It’s the sort of stuff that happens when military promotions are based upon loyalty to the regime instead of actual merit (Washington DC, take notice!).

    And yet, we are two years into the war and it’s still going full-throttle.

    Dana (f36573)

  7. From a US perspective, Ukraine sort of crystalizes the risk of Trump. Talking about withdrawing from NATO, saying Taiwan should be paying us like a protection racket, cozying up to Putin, Un, Xi and distancing from our actual allies.

    And then there’s just the general “he’s a nutball” category too.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  8. So this means he’d support Satan or Hitler because, “it’s important.”

    Policy means nothing to him. Nor do our institutions of governance.

    But we knew that about French anyway.

    NJRob (af3606)

  9. +1 (for Dana’s post, not the anti-anti-Trump apologist.)

    lurker (c23034)

  10. the country can handle four years of bad policy, but it cannot survive a president who torches the Constitution.

    IOW, don’t vote Harris. Got it.

    alanstorm (05fa54)

  11. The replies to French’s thread are precious. How dare he call Walz less than moderate. This is the milieu French has immersed himself in and embraced. But this comes with a NYT gig, which he never would’ve gotten if he really was a conservative.

    Yeah, we can probably survive four more years of unrestricted lawfare directed at the opposition, emboldened by a Harris victory and cheered on by the likes of French. And four more years of a supplicant media backing up the lies of the party in power, such that a demented head of lettuce can run the country. And four more years of an unrestrained bureaucracy working for one party that, as one accomplishment, put the opposition candidate one inch away from death. No one knows where the tipping point is, but at this rate we’re going to find out.

    At least we know all the assurances from Nevertrump that it was okay to support Biden because he’s moderate were all lies. As if we didn’t already know. A socialist defund the police ticket is fine now. A socialist defund the police anti-Semite ticket like Omar/Tliab would be fine, too. Principles.

    lloyd (f6c1a7)

  12. (To be clear, in case there was any doubt, I don’t consider JVW an anti-anti-Trump apologist.)

    lurker (c23034)

  13. I’ve yet to hear a coherent explanation for what Trump did or didn’t do on January 6th and with the classified document obstruction. The closest, which is inadequate, is that Trump was just battling like Al Gore in 2000 or just accumulating classified documents like Joe Biden. A reasonable take is that he moved the bar in a bad way…without much rational explanation. We are just supposed to sit and accept that riling up a riot and sitting placidly watching as someone is shot dead because of that riot….is now acceptable.

    The reasonable explanations are that either Trump is either unhinged…or not able to understand why each action was so poorly conceived…or both. Again, he should have been convicted upon impeachment…and made ineligible to run. I might disagree with much of Harris’ domestic agenda…but it’s all debatable. Academics on both sides can argue numbers, causality, and sociology. That’s what are system is all about. But unhinged is unhinged. Poor character is poor character. The GOP needs to lose so we can move on from this. A Trump win just validates his disputed actions and will make him even more bold with what he might try next.

    It’s hard to steam roll a domestic agenda without 60 votes. It’s easier to use Executive Orders and questionable foreign policy actions to make historically bad decisions. We are on that path with Trump. Harris will be constrained by re-electability. Trump not so much. Harris has the slight edge despite my vote being meaningless.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  14. And yet, we are two years into the war and it’s still going full-throttle.

    Yep. But I’m starting to see Putin as King Pyrrhus, and Ukraine as Heraclea and Asculum.

    JVW (03ae6d)

  15. As we are seeing in Venezuela, you can vote your way into socialism, but you cannot vote your way out of it.

    Pretending otherwise as French is doing is just writung lies for a paycheck.

    NJRob (af3606)

  16. Right, and voting for Trump moves the US closer to Venezuelan values. Authoritarian and anti-democratic.

    If you like your America to be more like Cuba or Venezuela, by all means, vote for Trump, Icky and Creepy.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  17. Didn’t happen in his previous term but we know the left, like NeverTrump, will do anything possible to “win.”

    NJRob (af3606)

  18. 3.

    but I cannot in good conscience vote for either party. I keep getting told that my choice is supporting the winner. It is not.

    What is said, or what was said in the past, is “A vote for Z is a vote for (X or Y)”

    It got argued for both candidates.

    When you analyze the paradox of this applying to both leading candidates, you see that an avoidance of the choice is supposed to be supporting whichever one of the two leading candidates you want least to win.

    The system is broken. There needs to be a normal challenger.

    And that’s not Robert F. Kennedy Jr. That’s how broken things are.

    Incidentally, a group aligned with Democrats is trying to get RFK Jr removed from the ballot in New York, on the grounds that he doesn’t live in New York and his petitions therefore contain lies.

    But RFK Jr says: His driver’s license is here! He’s kept a New York State voting address since 2014! Etc.

    There’s not even a half decent protest candidate to vote for.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  19. And using leftist talking points about Vance is telking.

    NJRob (af3606)

  20. Sorry, but single-issue arguments are of little interest to me. Tell me WHY Trump’s administration would be worse for my interests than Harris’s. Pointing at some weak threat to our institutions that have withstood FAR more dangerous scoundrels than Trump isn’t enough.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  21. Rob, one of the valid complaints about trump is that he tried to steel the presidency after losing the election. Your comment about “you can’t vote yourself out” directly applies to his actions. The fact that you try to ignore / deny that really weakens your argument here.

    I don’t know Walz but in 2020 I was on the bubble about if it would be better to vote for Harris, or write in a candidate should she win the nomination. Sanders and Warrren were hard no’s. I recall leaning towards leaving it blank for her. Then Trump tried to steel the election and the bar was lowered.

    Time123 (0168b5)

  22. Yes, Trump has taken over the GOP, but the Bernie Bros have taken over the Democrat Party. There is more moderation in Trump-Vance than in Harris-Walz, and at least Trump-Vance will be under the MSM microscope. With Harris, the MSM will be cheerleading and covering up.

    I might have voted for Biden, old as he was, as he was a limited threat. Harris was different, and Harris-Walz shows that she will lean towards the most extreme elements in her party. Socialism is not neighborly. It’s the use of force and making omelets.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  23. NJRob (af3606) — 8/7/2024 @ 10:37 am

    So this means he’d support Satan or Hitler because, “it’s important.”

    Winston Churchill would have supported Satan against Hitler.

    https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/winston_churchill_111298

    If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons.

    – Winston Churchill

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  24. one of the valid complaints about trump is that he tried to steel the presidency after losing the election.

    I’ve got an idea: pretend everyone has heard that and made up their minds anyway. Find something else to talk about.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  25. Churchill wanted Britain “strangle socialism in its cradle.”

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  26. As I have said before, the Democrat Party is open about how it wants to steal elections. Certainly their means are aboveboard, but their goal is the same. Worse, Trump’s attempt was incompetent, unworkable and futile. The Democrats’ subversion of the Electoral College, their desire to pack the Supreme Court and gut the filibuster are all aimed at seizing and holding power against all but the most concerted opposition.

    “Trump tried to steal the election” is a total nothingburger in comparison.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  27. I’ve got an idea: pretend everyone has heard that and made up their minds anyway. Find something else to talk about.

    Trump tried to strangle democracy. Trying and failing to overthrow the rightfully elected government isn’t something to just “move on” with.

    Fortunately, cozying up to dictators and alienation of our allies is also something we shouldn’t “move on” from.

    And the whole being an unhinged, stupid, nutbag, is in there too.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  28. Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/7/2024 @ 12:41 pm

    … voting for Trump moves the US closer to Venezuelan values. Authoritarian and anti-democratic.

    To be like Venezuela, Trump would have to acquire a Russian “Praetorian Guard” and corrupt the loyalties of most of the military and National Guard.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  29. You keep saying the democrats may want to do this or that. Cool. Trump in fact tried to steal an election, that you think that is a nothingburger is kind of scary.

    If the coup is by your guy, it’s OK, he wasn’t successful.

    With that mentality, the Crooks kid was fine, he didn’t succeed in assassinating Trump. Attempting something and failing is a “nothingburger”.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  30. To be like Venezuela, Trump would have to acquire a Russian “Praetorian Guard” and corrupt the loyalties of most of the military and National Guard.

    Like the Proud Boys, stand by, or the 3%rs. There were people in the military, see Michael Flynn etc.

    Just because he didn’t get enough support, doesn’t mean the thing he did didn’t happen. Again, not being successful at a coup…is still a coup.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  31. @24 It’s a central reason to oppose Trump. It’s also pertinent to Rob’s point. I’m sorry if brining it up annoys you. It’s not the only reason to oppose Trump.
    -His foreign policy is bad.
    -His trade policy is bad
    -He makes bad trade deals
    -He’s corrupt and dishonest
    -The people he attracts are incompetent and corrupt

    Time123 (1844d9)

  32. It’s a false reason Time and one that allows former conservatives to support communists which proves they arent conservative. At best, they are libertarians that prefer leftist statist social policy to those icky Christians. But allying with the radical islamists will get them the worst of both worlds.

    The anti-semitism is telling.

    NJRob (af3606)

  33. Trump’s hold over the once-viable Republican party must be broken because – yet again – the country can handle four years of bad policy, but it cannot survive a president who torches the Constitution.

    Let’s be clear.

    The “pre-Trump” GOP version is never coming back.

    If your plan is to “save the GOP party, or SAVE THE REPUBLIC” is to vote for those who’s intent on it’s destruction…

    That says a lot about you.

    whembly (477db6)

  34. Rob, do you know what communism is? It doesn’t appear so, who talks up all the communists, like Putin, Xi, and Un? Maybe look into that.

    And all the people you think don’t like Christians, happen to be churchgoing Christians. Going on podcasts of white supremacists, anti-semites, inviting them to dine with you. Only one group seems to be actually doing it in this reality, in the reality you project things might be different, but we live in this one.

    So, Trump loves the leaders of the most communist countries, doesn’t like religion in general, hangs out with white nationalists, but it’s the other guys that are doing it, just in some odd secret cabal. Trump’s doing it in plain site.

    MAGA is just like Trump, the louder they crow about something, the more likely it is that they’re guilty of it.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  35. It’s not just a question of whether Russia will seek to expand from Ukraine. Let’s not forget that China is watching all of this. If Trump forces Ukraine to cede territory to Russia, the risk of China invading Taiwan goes up.

    norcal (070ad3)

  36. If your plan is to “save the GOP party, or SAVE THE REPUBLIC” is to vote for those who’s intent on it’s destruction…

    That says a lot about you.

    Yes, vote Trump turn the US into Venezuela.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  37. In a nutshell: Harris/Walz must be defeated.

    It is they who support Venezuelan politics. I have never cast a vote for Donald Trump, and thought I never would. But the alternative is so bad that I will vote for a risk over a certainty.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  38. As we are seeing in Venezuela, you can vote your way into socialism, but you cannot vote your way out of it.

    NJRob (af3606) — 8/7/2024 @ 12:34 pm

    Counterpoint: The UK, Sweden, and New Zealand all used to be more socialist than they are now. In the 70s Britain was called the sick man of Europe. Then Margaret Thatcher was elected.

    Venezuela could have just as easily elected a right-wing authoritarian who then became a tyrant, like Trump attempted to do after losing the election. Did you see his tweet about terminating the Constitution? That should be utterly disqualifying all by itself.

    norcal (070ad3)

  39. @16

    Right, and voting for Trump moves the US closer to Venezuelan values. Authoritarian and anti-democratic.

    If you like your America to be more like Cuba or Venezuela, by all means, vote for Trump, Icky and Creepy.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/7/2024 @ 12:41 pm

    Trump is not in the party advocating to:
    -“reform” the Supreme Court
    -advance court packing
    -remove the filibuster
    -perpetuate censorious regime in social media

    Yeah, miss me with all this “voting for Trump moves the US closer to Venezuelan values. Authoritarian and anti-democratic.” It’s a load of bs.

    whembly (477db6)

  40. @34

    Rob, do you know what communism is? It doesn’t appear so, who talks up all the communists, like Putin, Xi, and Un? Maybe look into that.

    And all the people you think don’t like Christians, happen to be churchgoing Christians. Going on podcasts of white supremacists, anti-semites, inviting them to dine with you. Only one group seems to be actually doing it in this reality, in the reality you project things might be different, but we live in this one.

    So, Trump loves the leaders of the most communist countries, doesn’t like religion in general, hangs out with white nationalists, but it’s the other guys that are doing it, just in some odd secret cabal. Trump’s doing it in plain site.

    MAGA is just like Trump, the louder they crow about something, the more likely it is that they’re guilty of it.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/7/2024 @ 1:41 pm

    Do you?

    Democrats has always have had a lovefest with the principles of communisms.

    Hell, Harris always talks about trying to have a system whereby the outcome is equitable.

    That’s communism.

    Now, like a good Democrat… pick up that can citizen.

    whembly (477db6)

  41. Here’s more on Walz, from the Libertarian Reason

    Vice President Kamala Harris has chosen Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz as her running mate. Walz was a moderate Democrat when he served in the House of Representatives but veered left during his two terms as governor. He referred to socialism as synonymous with neighborliness, pursued an extremely progressive governing agenda, and earned an F from the Cato Institute on fiscal policy.

    Another notable thing about Walz is that he served as governor during the COVID-19 pandemic. It is thus possible to parse his approach to the virus—and that record is extremely disturbing. Indeed, Walz’s coronavirus policies were extremely heavy-handed and restrictive; under his leadership, the state endured the pandemic in a fundamentally anti-libertarian fashion.

    When the coronavirus was first spreading, Walz was an enthusiastic promoter of social distancing rules. He described the crowds in public, outdoor spaces as “a little too big.” He even defended Minnesota’s ridiculous hotline for COVID-19 snitches. That’s right: Walz’s government maintained a method for people to report their neighbors for failing to abide by social distancing rules. Walz insisted in a recent interview that “one person’s socialism is another person’s neighborliness”; denouncing one’s neighbors as insufficiently loyal to government policies is a fundamental aspect of socialism, however.

    When asked by Republicans to take down the hotline, Walz responded: “We’re not going to take down a phone number that people can call to keep their families safe.”

    And though Walz instructed police to merely issue citations to people caught violating stay-at-home orders—which is still bad enough—he also maintained the right, via executive order, to issue $1,000 fines and send violators to jail for 90 days.

    While I understand people’s reaction to January 6th — I was just as horrified — it is the past. I am far more concerned about the hard left wing that now controls the Democratic Party and the willing cheerleading on the part of the 4th Estate, which will not serve as the check and balance that they would with Trump.

    So, my vote is, God Help Me, for Donald effing Trump. He may be a catastrophe, but Harris is the apocalypse.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  42. @36

    If your plan is to “save the GOP party, or SAVE THE REPUBLIC” is to vote for those who’s intent on it’s destruction…

    That says a lot about you.

    Yes, vote Trump turn the US into Venezuela.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/7/2024 @ 1:43 pm

    Heh… you don’t have a clue… do you? Your programming can’t see it.

    whembly (477db6)

  43. Counterpoint: The UK, Sweden, and New Zealand all used to be more socialist than they are now. In the 70s Britain was called the sick man of Europe. Then Margaret Thatcher was elected.

    And it was only 30 years of abject decline and state control of, well, everything before that happened. ANd then a decade later they were back at it.

    I’m sorry, but that’s like holding onto your portfolio in the face of an imminent market crash, saying “Well, it will come back up someday.”

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  44. @41

    So, my vote is, God Help Me, for Donald effing Trump. He may be a catastrophe, but Harris is the apocalypse.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/7/2024 @ 1:54 pm

    He won’t be a catastrophe because he’ll be mired in litigation and Congress won’t stick their necks out too much because Trump is lamed ducked.

    Whereas a KommieKamala/TamponTimmy won’t face near enough of a check & balance that Trump would obviously face.

    whembly (477db6)

  45. Klink thinks he’s just being a good neighbor.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  46. Related topic:

    Out: Obama phone
    In: Newsom phone

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  47. Also… down goes one of the Squad Member!
    https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/government-politics/wesley-bell-beats-cori-bush-in-1st-congressional-district-after-heated-expensive-race/article_cae2abb4-52e0-11ef-b727-9b5288b4412c.html#tracking-source=mp-homepage

    ST. LOUIS — St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney Wesley Bell on Tuesday night soundly defeated U.S. Rep. Cori Bush in a heated race for Congress with deep local and national implications.

    Unofficial results with all precincts reporting show Bell had about 63,000 votes, or 51%. Bush’s tally closed in late in the evening, jumping to 56,500, or 46%, but she didn’t catch up.

    By 10:15 p.m., the Associated Press called the race, and Bell prepared to address his supporters.

    “I am absolutely honored and humbled to be the Democratic candidate for Congress from this 1st District,” Bell told the crowd gathered at the Marriott St. Louis Grand downtown.

    This is in probably the most liberal/left district in Missouri and even Bush was too much for those Missourian.

    whembly (477db6)

  48. Klink is right that even the hard left of the Democrat Party is not “Communist” but Socialist. Then again the USSR called themselves Socialists, too. It’s in their name.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  49. So this means he’d support Satan or Hitler because, “it’s important.”

    Dumb and wrong.
    Hitler well demonstrated that he’s a fascist, therefore anti-democratic, which means Hitler was a first-order problem, as Trump is a first-order problem, although Hitler was much more effective at shutting down democracy. Trump may have been bad at his coup, but that don’t mean we should take our chances with the guy.
    I can’t speak for Satan, but I don’t consider hell to be a place where its occupants are accorded the Bill of Rights and given voting rights and free-and-fair elections.

    I agree with French and Jester and Dana, although Harris-Walz won’t get my vote, because I have that luxury. Also, the “never” in NeverTrump really means never; the reasons are many.

    Paul Montagu (11842a)

  50. 🚨 WOW: Tim Walz says you have NO RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH if the government deems it “misinformation.”

    This guy’s a full blown communist!pic.twitter.com/0FdSg73OEK

    — Nick Sortor (@nicksortor) August 7, 2024

    whembly (477db6)

  51. he also maintained the right, via executive order, to issue $1,000 fines and send violators to jail for 90 days.

    Wouldn’t jail conflict with social distancing?

    I suppose it was an empty threat.

    If he “maintained the right” I think it means he didn’t try to do it. One has to read carefully.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  52. he also maintained the right, via executive order, to issue $1,000 fines and send violators to jail for 90 days.

    The point is that he created a crime and punishment, applicable to citizens, by executive order. Tell me again about who is the threat to democracy.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  53. Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/7/2024 @ 2:12 pm

    The point is that he created a crime and punishment, applicable to citizens, by executive order. Tell me again about who is the threat to democracy.

    A governor, but not a president.

    In the United States that can only be done at the state level (if authorized by the state legislature)

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  54. one of the valid complaints about trump is that he tried to steel the presidency after losing the election.

    I’ve got an idea: pretend everyone has heard that and made up their minds anyway. Find something else to talk about.

    Why should we have to find something else to talk about? The very fact that Trump did that is why he cannot be trusted to step into the Oval Office again. It is that significant. To tell people to talk about something else is to try to minimize the seriousness of the event. It should never be ignored or put on the back burner, or “just get over it”. Frankly, when selecting the next president , it should be a front and center issue. We can understand what happened, hold accountable those who need to be held accountable and always remember that it could happen again – especially if the same individual has his hands on the levers of power in any way.

    Dana (9635d1)

  55. Paul Montagu (11842a) — 8/7/2024 @ 2:03 pm

    Trump may have been bad at his coup, but that don’t mean we should take our chances with the guy.

    His coup attempt involved winning a vote in Congress, (not storming the Capitol) and even now he probably wouldn’t get enough votes. You only need a small percentage of Republicans not to go along.

    Here’s an interesting point:

    JD Vance as vice president is insurance against the Democrats trying the same thing on the basis of a 14th amendment disqualification.

    Whatever he says now, Vance did not support the “Stop the Steal” movement in 2020-2021 and he can’t, therefore, remotely be accused of having been an insurrectionist.

    So disqualifying Trump won’t make Harris president or throw it into the House of Representatives (even with one candidate, the House would still need a majority of the states – 26 are needed regardless of how many or few vote – to put in Harris, because to disqualify Trump only disqualifies him personally but not the Electoral votes, as was Trump’s plan in 2021, and they’d need to disqualify both of them to have the possibility of putting in Harris)

    So it won’t be done.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  56. Dana:

    The very fact that Trump did that is why he cannot be trusted to step into the Oval Office again. It is that significant.

    I think there are other things (other violations or stretches of the constitution by Donald Trump other than an election) that you might have more reason to worry about. That’s what they mean when they say he shouldn’t be let anywhere near the White House.

    But Truman tried to seize the steel mills and was stopped by the Supreme Court.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  57. Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/7/2024 @ 1:16 pm

    Like the Proud Boys, stand by, or the 3%rs. There were people in the military, see Michael Flynn etc.

    They were ex-military and they were way outnumbered, and Trump didn’t listen to Michael Flynn on December 18, 2020, except possibly, if Flynn was the reason, agreeing to call for is supporters to come Washington, D.C. on January 6 for a protest and use the word “wild” in his tweet.

    Just because he didn’t get enough support, doesn’t mean the thing he did didn’t happen. Again, not being successful at a coup…is still a coup.

    It took quite a few tries before the Roman Republic became an Empire.

    Then it lasted so long that the Senate did not restore the republic when they had a chance or two in 69 and 96.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  58. You’re not voting for Vance to be president, but being TRUMP’S veep. He is saying it was stolen…literally today, and he’s running with the “stealer”.

    Col. Klink (ret) (344358)

  59. Trump is not in the party advocating to:

    -remove the filibuster

    whembly (477db6) — 8/7/2024 @ 1:49 pm

    I would be surprised if Trump doesn’t try to remove the filibuster. All bets are off if he doesn’t have to worry about re-election.

    In fact, I would like to see a string of Presidents who serve just one term. That way, they’re more likely to be on good behavior.

    norcal (070ad3)

  60. To me, the Democrat appeal repeatedly reminds me of this and I have no reached a point where I am no longer ambivalent. I remain angry at the system that leaves me here.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  61. 29. Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/7/2024 @ 1:13 pm

    With that mentality, the Crooks kid was fine, he didn’t succeed in assassinating Trump. Attempting something and failing is a “nothingburger”

    Near misses should be studied carefully. They are with airlines. But Trump’s legal coup was not a near miss. (And Crooks killed somebody and severely wounded two other people)

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  62. I would be surprised if Trump doesn’t try to remove the filibuster. All bets are off if he doesn’t have to worry about re-election.

    It would not surprise me either, but I look to the recent past. In his first term, when the GOP had both houses of Congress, Trump wanted to nuke the filibuster but the GOP Senate refused. During this administration, the Democrat Senate TRIED to nuke the filibuster and only two Senators (Sinema and Manchin) refused. Now they are both gone.

    Again I am faced with a choice between baseless supposition and near-reality. I believe that the Democrats will attempt it again, and likely succeed and I believe that there will be enough GOP Senators to refuse.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  63. The current odds bet on the Senate next term is 50-50 plus the VP.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  64. Don’t forget that the Senate is likely to go Republican. That will serve as a check on Kammie and Timmie.

    On the unlike chance that the Senate were to stay Democrat, I wouldn’t worry as much if Donnie were elected President.

    norcal (070ad3)

  65. The current odds bet on the Senate next term is 50-50 plus the VP.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/7/2024 @ 2:48 pm

    I was unaware of this development. Last I heard, the Senate was a virtual lock for Republicans.

    norcal (070ad3)

  66. With that mentality, the Crooks kid was fine, he didn’t succeed in assassinating Trump. Attempting something and failing is a “nothingburger”

    A proper analogy would be Crooks with a BB gun at the same distance. Trump’s attempt was incompetent, unworkable and futile. Crooks was just a bit incompetent but a center-of-mass target would have worked.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  67. The very fact that Trump did that is why he cannot be trusted to step into the Oval Office again. It is that significant.

    You’ve been saying that for 3 years now. Perhaps all caps? Because it does not work for me any more.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  68. His coup attempt involved winning a vote in Congress, (not storming the Capitol) and even now he probably wouldn’t get enough votes. You only need a small percentage of Republicans not to go along.

    It was all of it, Sammy. The fact that Trump did nothing to stop the rioting for 3-plus hours is testament.

    Paul Montagu (75e100)

  69. This is funny

    It is funny. Sadly, I think they misunderstood “the laugh test.”

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  70. I was unaware of this development. Last I heard, the Senate was a virtual lock for Republicans.

    RCP has it 50-43 with 7 “toss-ups” but the Democrats have 3 to 7% leads in 6 of them and the 7th is a true tossup.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  71. The very fact that Trump did that is why he cannot be trusted to step into the Oval Office again. It is that significant.

    You’ve been saying that for 3 years now. Perhaps all caps? Because it does not work for me any more.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/7/2024 @ 2:51 pm

    It’s unfortunate when people become inured to Trump’s heinousness.

    norcal (070ad3)

  72. The GOP was considered a lock because the 7 tossups are all Democrat seats. But the GOP is losing at least 6 of those.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  73. That’s fine that it does not work for you, Kevin. But you are not the only commentor or reader here. Besides which, that doesn’t make any difference to me. I see this is the most critical aspect to Trump’s corruption and narcissism – The absolute manifestation of those character – that I would shout it from the rooftops all day long if I could..

    Dana (6edd5d)

  74. It’s unfortunate when people become inured to Trump’s heinousness.

    No, it’s unfortunate when people who should know better ignore the other wolf at the door. Being inured to revolutionary leftist fervor is more scary to me.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  75. Dana, I get that. You see this single issue as trumping all others. It seems like myopia to me as the opposition to Trump gets nastier and uglier every day. The Democrat ticket might as well be Warren/Sanders and you still can’t get your eyes off Trump.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  76. The current odds bet on the Senate next term is 50-50 plus the VP.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/7/2024 @ 2:48 pm

    Which would mean your parade of horrors would go nowhere in the Senate-no Supreme Court or Electoral College change, for example (certainly none that would require a constitutional amendment). If the Supreme Court ruled that the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact required Congressional approval, that would also be DOA.

    What’s not to like about gridlock?

    Rip Murdock (f17b34)

  77. Being inured to revolutionary leftist fervor is more scary to me.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/7/2024 @ 3:02 pm

    Harris is still within normal parameters. Trump is outside of normal parameters.

    Look, I get it. I don’t like lefty policies, either. I’ve been a Republican my whole life. Trump threw a wrench into the traditional left versus right policy assessment.

    He has managed to convince a large percentage of people that he really won the 2020 election. You can’t have a healthy democracy when grifters lie about election results. I know Democrats have done a some of that before, but not on the scale, scope, and duration of Trump. And, nobody died because of it, either.

    Trump prioritizes himself over the country. I don’t know how anybody could argue otherwise.

    It’s a cult of personality, and it needs to go away. (The chaplain of the Reno Elks Club actually has a Trump tattoo on her arm. It’s pathetic.)

    norcal (070ad3)

  78. In a nutshell: Harris/Walz must be defeated.

    It is they who support Venezuelan politics…….

    Oh please, enough of this exaggeration. What statements from either of them lead you to this conclusion?

    Rip Murdock (f17b34)

  79. The anti-anti-Trump take on the joke about JD Vance and a couch somehow outweighing every ugly and nasty thing Trump and his followers say is the most pathetic thing…

    Sam G (3626e6)

  80. Yes, norcal, this is spot-on.

    Dana (d9df89)

  81. A proper analogy would be Crooks with a BB gun at the same distance. Trump’s attempt was incompetent, unworkable and futile.

    Your assumption that his attempt was futile is wishful thinking.

    The incompetence is correct, especially when Barr resigned rather than be part of the effort or stand by and let it happen while Barr ran the DOJ. A competent AG that supported him would have been a very large change.

    All Barr would have had to do was open an investigation or two and make some statements that fraud couldn’t be ruled out and Trump’s support in congress would have changed.

    Many of the people who didn’t help Trump were likely worried about the consequences if helping steal the election.

    Re-electing Trump shows how much smaller those consequences would be. Especially if he starts pardoning people who broke the law in support of his attempt.

    Time123 (0168b5)

  82. Kevin M has finally found his rationale to support Trump-equating Trump’s actual actions on January 6th, his conspiring to submit fake documents and electors, his arm twisting of VP Pence and the DOJ to support his “rigged election” claims, etc. with his fantasies about what Democrats “might” do.

    Rip Murdock (f17b34)

  83. Being inured to revolutionary leftist fervor is more scary to me.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/7/2024 @ 3:02 pm

    I guess you see little red books everywhere. Just because the political opposition is enthusiastic about their candidate doesn’t make them into revolutionaries. Next you’ll be saying the Democrats are the equivalent of the Shining Path.

    Rip Murdock (f17b34)

  84. @83, that’s a pretty common solution to the problem of not being able lie to yourself about what Trump did. Kevin is honest (sometimes wrong but honest errors) so he’s not going to lie about what Trump did. He might squint and engage in a little motivated reasoning but that’s about it. (Kevin, I hope that wasn’t insulting, we all do that from time to time and I respect you even when you irk me.)

    To do that and support Trump you need to find the Democrats worse. I can understand that. Prior to Jan 6 I probably wouldn’t have voted for Harris to stop Trump. I’d have sat that one out. Still doubt I’d vote for Sander or Warren. So I can see where Kevin’s coming from and why he doesn’t want to talk about Trumps effort to steal the election, it’s a painful choice he’s made.

    Time123 (0168b5)

  85. The most recent New Mexican poll shows Harris 44-37 ahead of Trump, and that poll includes RFKJr. at 8%. This an improvement over a June 2024 poll that had Biden over Trump 43-42, again with RFKJr. at 8%.

    Rip Murdock (f17b34)

  86. So I can see where Kevin’s coming from and why he doesn’t want to talk about Trumps effort to steal the election, it’s a painful choice he’s made.

    Time123 (0168b5) — 8/7/2024 @ 3:40 pm

    It’s his over the top assertions without evidence that irks me. He’s been flirting with Trump for a long time, he’s just found a way to admit it.

    Rip Murdock (f17b34)

  87. Rip Murdock (f17b34) — 8/7/2024 @ 3:52 pm

    Most of the variance comes from Jill Stein (3% to 0% between polls) and Chase Oliver (Libertarian presidential candidate) (2% to 0%) moving to Harris, as well as the decline in Trump’s popularity (42% down to 37%).

    Rip Murdock (f17b34)

  88. Don’t tell asset. 😉

    Rip Murdock (f17b34)

  89. Kevin M has finally found his rationale to support Trump-equating Trump’s actual actions on January 6th ………with his fantasies about what Democrats “might” do.

    Rip Murdock (f17b34) — 8/7/2024 @ 3:31 pm

    This was entirely predictable, just like his fave Nikki Haley and her full throated endorsement of Donald Trump.

    Rip Murdock (f17b34)

  90. What’s not to like about gridlock?

    Well, for one thing we’ve become acclimated to $2 trillion annual deficits. So if Congress and the White House are gridlocked going forward, the budget is going to run on continuing resolution autopilot and those $2 trillion annual deficits are going to endure.

    JVW (03ae6d)

  91. Harris is still within normal parameters. Trump is outside of normal parameters.

    The Democrat Party is outside normal parameters, with it’s attempts to subvert the Electoral College (something I was upset about before Trump and J6), to end the filibuster (2 votes short) and to undo 50 years of struggle at the Supreme Court by kicking the table over. I was done at Obamacare, but they were just getting started.

    Harris’s actions as CA AG were also outside normal parameters: Writing loaded summaries for petitions, demanding to see donors of conservative advocacy groups (then accidentally posting the confidential information to her web site), and creating magic features that guns had to have to be legal in the state.

    A VP who equates socialism with neighborliness is not within any normal parameters that I want to see.

    Then again my Overton Window doesn’t move with the tides. YMMV.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  92. I guess you see little red books everywhere.

    I should wait until I do?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  93. It’s a cult of personality, and it needs to go away. (The chaplain of the Reno Elks Club actually has a Trump tattoo on her arm. It’s pathetic.)

    That’s a glib explanation, but if it was that it would have already gone away. What Trump is leading is a mass revolt of the poor working slob who has been handed the sh1t end of the stick for 50 years. Is he the guy I’d want out in front? Not hardly. But he is there and those people are not going to go away easily.

    This is a movement that started with the Tea Part and has had several mutations, but it is NOT going away, even if Trump does, and the longer it takes the more disruptive it will be with they finally win.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  94. Rip Murdock (f17b34) — 8/7/2024 @ 4:22 pm

    Rip is his own sock-puppet, agreeing with Rip.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  95. So I can see where Kevin’s coming from and why he doesn’t want to talk about Trumps effort to steal the election, it’s a painful choice he’s made.

    That’s not exactly true. I just don’t want to talk about it more. Nobody’s minds will change and it is only being used to justify voting for someone who will continue the destruction.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  96. I guess what I’m saying is I think that you should be ashamed for voting for Harris/Welz. They are SO bad that their opponent being a lying cheating scumbag isn’t a sufficient reason.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  97. Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/7/2024 @ 4:59 pm

    None of the items you mention are as bad as trying to overturn the election, and calling for the termination of the Constitution.

    Kamala did some lefty stuff in a lefty place. I doubt she would do the same things as President. I’ll give her a chance, just like I went against the sage advice of our host, and gave Trump a chance by voting for him in 2016.

    norcal (070ad3)

  98. What Trump is leading is a mass revolt of the poor working slob who has been handed the sh1t end of the stick for 50 years.

    I don’t believe that. He is not leading anybody. He’s hustling the fat-butts who can’t see past their waffle ice cream except for people and things they don’t like.

    nk (897c76)

  99. Rip Murdock (f17b34) — 8/7/2024 @ 4:22 pm

    Rip is his own sock-puppet, agreeing with Rip.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/7/2024 @ 5:10 pm

    No, just linking to and continuing, my previous remarks.

    Rip Murdock (f17b34)

  100. I guess what I’m saying is I think that you should be ashamed for voting for Harris/Welz. They are SO bad that their opponent being a lying cheating scumbag isn’t a sufficient reason.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/7/2024 @ 5:13 pm

    You’re wrong there.

    Rip Murdock (f17b34)

  101. My Little Red Book

    Rip Murdock (f17b34)

  102. Maybe it’s time we gave that “act as President” thingie in the Constitution a shot. None of the candidates or their VPs get sworn in. We can go with the line of succession, with the Speaker acting as President, why not? They can be replaced by a simple vote in the House, not to mention the biennial election. Less awkward than the President pro tem of the Senate, unless we want it awkward.

    nk (897c76)

  103. Every step that the Democrats have taken since Biden dropped out has been to lurch further and further to the Left. And when they are elected they will take that as a mandate for Socialism. And those people won the right are frozen like deer in the headlights by their fixation on Donald Trump, unable to see what the other side is doing or, it seems, much care.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  104. * those people ON the right are frozen like deer in the headlights by their fixation on Donald Trump, unable to see what the other side is doing or, it seems, much care.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  105. I guess what I’m saying is I think that you should be ashamed for voting for Harris/Welz. They are SO bad that their opponent being a lying cheating scumbag isn’t a sufficient reason.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/7/2024 @ 5:13 pm

    It’s not just that he’s a lying cheating scumbag. It’s what the lying cheating scum bag does when he is in office or voted out of office, that’s the problem.

    Dana (f19c27)

  106. or, it seems, much care.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/7/2024 @ 5:25 pm

    Oh, I care. I really do. Like I said on the other thread, my vote for Kamala will be the most unenthusiastic vote I’ve ever cast.

    norcal (070ad3)

  107. voted out of office, that’s the problem.

    Dana (f19c27) — 8/7/2024 @ 5:30 pm

    But Dana, he wasn’t voted out of office, don’t you see? We need to remedy that, and pardon all those J6 patriots.

    norcal (070ad3)

  108. Every step that the Democrats have taken since Biden dropped out has been to lurch further and further to the Left. And when they are elected they will take that as a mandate for Socialism.

    That fight was lost beginning in the 1930s through the 1969s with the enactment of Social Security, the National Labor Relations Act, National Firearms Act (and related laws), the various Civil Rights Acts, Medicare, AFDC, etc.

    Rip Murdock (f17b34)

  109. That fight was lost beginning in the 1930s through the 1969s

    1969 did feel like a decade. 😄

    Rip Murdock (f17b34)

  110. Like the Biden Administration, a Harris/Walz Administration has a liberal agenda. But also like Biden, they will find it difficult to enact by not being able to pass it it through Congress; and if they if they try to use executive orders or administrative rule making, getting slapped down by the courts.

    It’s way too early to run screaming down the street.

    Rip Murdock (f17b34)

  111. Now, like a good Democrat… pick up that can citizen.
    whembly (477db6) — 8/7/2024 @ 1:53 pm

    Pick up that can!

    felipe (022ca8)

  112. executive orders or administrative rule making, getting slapped down by the courts.

    It’s way too early to run screaming down the street.

    Rip Murdock (f17b34) — 8/7/2024 @ 5:51 pm

    Plus, executive orders can be dismissed by the next President.

    norcal (070ad3)

  113. @108 “But Dana, he wasn’t voted out of office, don’t you see? We need to remedy that, and pardon all those J6 patriots.“

    Heh. Nobody involved in J6 abused FISA warrants, nor peddled a false dossier and received confidential informant status by the FBI, nor leaked classified information to the media to target an opponent, nor devised an “insurance policy” in case a candidate won, nor hyped a bogus two year Russia collusion investigation, nor dropped an investigation into grossly negligent handing of classified documents by the preferred candidate, nor texted colleagues derogatory statements about a candidate under investigation on government devices and got a $2 million settlement from a friendly DOJ after they got exposed.

    J6 is just window dressing for those lining up to support radical anti-anti-anti-Semite leftists, and always will be.

    lloyd (3a8615)

  114. lloyd (3a8615) — 8/7/2024 @ 6:03 pm

    Like you, I am opposed to many of the things you mentioned.

    I have to weigh the harms both nominees bring, and decide which side is worse.

    I believe I am approaching this with some objectivity, because I actually voted for Trump in 2016. (In 2020 I voted for the Libertarian, and was soon vindicated when Trump tried to overturn the election.)

    norcal (070ad3)

  115. J6 was what Trumps do. Pissing all over the kitchen because they could not reach the cookie jar.

    nk (897c76)

  116. That fight was lost beginning in the 1930s through the 1969s with the enactment of Social Security, the National Labor Relations Act, National Firearms Act (and related laws), the various Civil Rights Acts, Medicare, AFDC, etc.

    How banning [actual] machineguns and following the 14th Amendment = socialism is beyond my weak understanding. Even labor unions are iffy there.

    As for the rest all you prove is that once enacted any damn government program is eternal. Why do you think that means laying down for more is a good idea? Federal and state governments spend about 37% of people’s earnings now. I want to hear your principled argument for making it 60%.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  117. I believe I am approaching this with some objectivity

    As am I. I voted against Trump in 3 primaries and two general elections. I really wish he was not the candidate standing between the People and Socialism. But he is, and I have to respect the primary voters, none of whom chose Harris.

    I am given a choice: Column A, a post-liberal center-right populist who I cannot stand, and Column B, a post-liberal hard left statist who I also cannot stand, who at her one moment that was all her own moved left again with her VP pick.

    Sammy said that she missed her Sistah Souljah moment, but he’s wrong. It’s just that we are Sistah Souljah.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  118. J6 was what Trumps do. Pissing all over the kitchen because they could not reach the cookie jar.

    Another single-issue voter makes his simple stand. Again.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  119. executive orders or administrative rule making, getting slapped down by the courts.

    I’m glad they stopped Obamacare as we were promised. I’m sure they will stop Harris’s gun grab, too. Especially after she adds 5 more justices to the court.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  120. Another single-issue voter makes his simple stand. Again.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/7/2024 @ 6:59 pm

    If Trump murdered someone, would I be wrong to make that my single issue?

    norcal (070ad3)

  121. Trump is my single issue. Always has been. I don’t want him, his prenup special, or his motley brood within a mile of the White House. J6 was a shock but that’s because nobody, including myself, has plumbed the depth of the septic tank. And I hope we never do.

    nk (897c76)

  122. Now I get why Kevin was ragging at me for criticizing the dumbf-ck things Trump said. He was already mostly there, in Trump’s corner.

    Trump isn’t my single issue, but his candidacy is my simple stand, that it would be bad for America to have a mentally ill, mentally unstable dumbass as Leader of the Free World.

    Paul Montagu (33bf29)

  123. All I want for Christmas is the party opposite that of our next President to control the Senate. Is that too much to ask?

    I’ve been a good boy. I swear.

    norcal (070ad3)

  124. @124 Paul has been there all along, in the radical left’s corner.

    lloyd (3a8615)

  125. Hundreds of trumpsters have become election officials in many states and are planning to stop democrats from being elected. In az today trump judge ruled voting officials can’t stop trumpsters from harassing and intimidating voters. (ap)

    asset (06281c)

  126. @124 Paul has been there all along, in the radical left’s corner.

    Liar. I’m pretty sure I mentioned right in this very thread that I’m not voting for Harris-Walz.
    I’m thinking of Romney for my protest vote this year, who’s younger than Trump, still has his marbles, and is not a mentally deranged dumbf-ck.

    Paul Montagu (33bf29)

  127. Oh, and Romney is an actual traditional conservative, not a right-wing know-nothing who threatened “termination” of our Constitution because the manchild didn’t get what he wanted.

    Paul Montagu (33bf29)

  128. Catoggio took French’s tweet and carried it forward…

    But if that’s not enough to persuade you, there’s a second reason that David didn’t mention. After eight exhausting years, it would be wonderful not to have to worry day-to-day about the president’s mental health.

    The “mood beat” is how reporter Mark Leibovich defined the practice among political journalists during Trump’s first term of analyzing events through the president’s state of mind. They had no choice. When the country is led by a figure as emotionally unstable and monarchical by temperament as Trump, how he’s feeling on a given day might mean more for the course of American policy than the considered advice of his deputies.

    Electing Joe Biden was supposed to mean the end of the “mood beat,” but Biden’s own precarious cognitive stability forced voters to once again pay more attention to the daily workings of the president’s brain than they’d prefer. As we sit here in 2024, the last time Americans didn’t need to worry whether the commander in chief might suffer a breakdown of one sort or another was the last year of Barack Obama’s second term.

    For all her faults, there’s no reason to believe Kamala Harris would have a breakdown in office. Judging from his behavior over the last month, however, her opponent looks to be having one right now.

    Seriously, the manchild is calling her Kamabla? And this…

    Things didn’t get genuinely weird until Tuesday night, though, when Trump uncorked this doozy on Truth Social:

    What are the chances that Crooked Joe Biden, the WORST President in the history of the U.S., whose Presidency was Unconstitutionally STOLEN from him by Kamabla, Barrack HUSSEIN Obama, Crazy Nancy Pelosi, Shifty Adam Schiff, Cryin’ Chuck Schumer, and others on the Lunatic Left, CRASHES the Democrat National Convention and tries to take back the Nomination, beginning with challenging me to another DEBATE. He feels that he made a historically tragic mistake by handing over the U.S. Presidency, a COUP, to the people in the World he most hates, and he wants it back, NOW!!!

    There’s zero chance of that happening, as everyone in the universe except him understands. Harris is officially the Democratic nominee; her surge in the polls and blockbuster fundraising are such that no one outside the immediate Biden family would prefer to have Joe back at the top of the ticket. The very idea of it is so stupid that we’re again left grasping for psychological explanations in lieu of strategic ones. Perhaps Trump was simply projecting onto Biden what he would do in Biden’s position. But, more likely, he’s so grieved to have lost the president as an opponent that he can’t help fantasizing about the race as it stood three weeks ago.

    Paul Montagu (33bf29)

  129. the country can handle four years of bad policy, but it cannot survive a president who torches the Constitution.

    1. Who’s to say that the other side won’t torch the constitution. They already want to ignore the electoral college. They already want to pack the Supreme Court. Harris is on record as wanting to outlaw guns by executive order.

    2. We have had presidents who torched the Constitutional ready, and the Constitution managed to outlive them. Jackson is a prime example. He told the Marshall and the Supreme Court to GFT wrt to the Civilized Tribes. To the Lochner Court, FDR was doing it too (and go read some of the things he tried, like the NiRA).

    3. And Trump won’t torch the Constitution. That’s crazy talk.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  130. If Trump murdered someone, would I be wrong to make that my single issue?

    But he didn’t. How many men did Biden kill getting out of Afghanistan? Never mind the fate of Afghan women.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  131. asset (06281c) — 8/7/2024 @ 8:37 pm

    Try actually linking, there’s a flipping button for it? Are you still using Lynx?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  132. Liar. I’m pretty sure I mentioned right in this very thread that I’m not voting for Harris-Walz.

    But you are not voting against them in any meaningful way. Maybe you can’t. But I find that my state is possibly in play, so I have to vote for the only candidate who can beat Harris.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  133. Oh, and Romney is an actual traditional conservative

    Unlike Lloyd, I have about 500 Republicans, not all conservative, who I would choose before Trump. Rick Santorum? Sure, why not?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  134. Who’s to say that the other side won’t torch the constitution. They already want to ignore the electoral college. They already want to pack the Supreme Court. Harris is on record as wanting to outlaw guns by executive order.

    Who’s to say what someone may do in the future if not predicted by past actions.

    It was probably Harris that said. “Take the guns first, go through due process second.”

    And Trump won’t torch the Constitution. That’s crazy talk.

    Nah, he’d never

    “So, with the revelation of MASSIVE & WIDESPREAD FRAUD & DECEPTION in working closely with Big Tech Companies, the DNC, & the Democrat Party, do you throw the Presidential Election Results of 2020 OUT and declare the RIGHTFUL WINNER, or do you have a NEW ELECTION? A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution. Our great ‘Founders’ did not want, and would not condone, False & Fraudulent Elections!”

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  135. But he didn’t. How many men did Biden kill getting out of Afghanistan? Never mind the fate of Afghan women

    I wonder who negotiated the great deal to get out of Afghanistan?

    Hint, it was the world’s greatest sh”Art of the deal”.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  136. I lived through 4 years of Trump in the oval office and 3.5+ years of Biden/Harris. Biden/Harris has been a lot worse. Harris/Walz scares the crap out me. I’m not a fan of Trump but given my options I prefer another 4 years of Trump.

    Mattsky (0bcc9b)

  137. In 2016, I told my conservative friends and family that they should vote for Trump if social issues were the most important to them, for Clinton if foreign policy was — by then she had figured out that Putin was not a good guy — and the Libertarian if economics was the most important to them.

    But the Supreme Court is now safely in conservative control, and likely to be for some years — especially if Republicans continue to have a leader as tactically brilliant as Mitch McConnnell. (That would be more certain if Trump hadn’t lost winnable Senate seats.)

    So social conservatives no longer have the same reason to support Trump.

    Jim Miller (0d329a)

  138. Some of you are opposed to idealists who think elections are important. For them, this reminder: Trump is a loser. When he took office, the Republicans controlled the House, the Senate, and the presidency; when he left, the party had lost all three.

    And had been badly damanged in many states.

    Bill Clinton encouraged his friend, the Loser, to run for president. I suspect Clinton is delighted by the damage the Loser has done to the Republican Party.

    Jim Miller (0d329a)

  139. As an independent who is conservative on many (not all) issues, I have voted for plenty of Republicans over my long life. I was an avid Nikki supporter, and would have felt good about seeing her in the Oval Office. But the Republicans decided that they wanted their sociopathic pussy-grabber back. So, what to do? Voting for an ethical and moral trainwreck like DJT is out of the question. I have a long list of policy differences with Harris, and would not feel good about voting for her. But I might end up holding my nose and doing so anyone, because as others here have pointed out, we can survive–and have often survived–bad policy. We can’t survive attempts to overthrow our institutions of government by some megalomaniac.

    Roger (bce119)

  140. @140 The Supreme Court is safely in conservative hands because Trump chose conservatives to fill vacancies and not a David Souter or Harriet Miers. Thanks to Nevertrump, the lower courts have been getting filled with left wing wack jobs the past four years and will continue for the next four. Plus, I imagine at least two Supreme Court retirements. Nevertrump will hand Constitutional interpretation and weakening to the radical left.

    lloyd (e4567b)

  141. @141 Some of us us are less concerned by any damage done to the Republican Party and more concerned about the permanent damage done to the country.

    lloyd (e4567b)

  142. So social conservatives no longer have the same reason to support Trump.

    Jim Miller (0d329a) — 8/8/2024 @ 5:11 am

    Pure lie.

    The oldest Supreme Court Justices are all Originalists and use a conservative interpretation of the law. The left has already said they will pack the court. We know the left imposes their beliefs through the courts. To give them control is to allow them to control our future.

    But you know that and desire that.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  143. A lot are just social leftists and are deeply upset that Trump actually did what he promised. They expected lip service like previous Republicans, but then to keep the status quo and allow the left to move the ball further when they regained control.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  144. @146 Exactly NJRob. “True” conservatives wanted to campaign and entice voters on ending Roe and securing the border and ending quotas, but didn’t actually want to do it. And they blame Trump for giving conservatives voters what they want.

    lloyd (570ae5)

  145. You get free drinks at Trump’s casinos, too.

    nk (897c76)

  146. Megyn Kelly @megynkelly
    Tim Walz signed a bill that lets the State take away your kids if you don’t agree to sterilize them and chop off their body parts in the name of “gender affirming care.” So if your 14-yr-old is sad but thinks it’s gender confusion and you object to castrating him, the state takes custody

    But according to Jim social issues don’t matter.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  147. Right. Let’s fix the damage Trump has done to the party and return it to greatness: a party that promised everything and delivered nothing.

    lloyd (570ae5)

  148. There are more conservatives in the current Supreme Court among the 5 oldest (3-2), and among the 4 youngest (3-1). All 9 would have life expectancies of a least a decade, just by US averages, and as far as I know all are in reasonably good health, so each will probably live long enough to escape the consequences of a likely Trump defeat, and a continuing Democratic majority in the Senate.

    For the record, the 3rd oldest is Sotomayor, and the 5th is Kagan.
    https://www.supremecourt.gov/about/biographies.aspx

    (The CDC has tables where you can look up average life expectancies by age: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr72/nvsr72-12.pdf )

    Jim Miller (0d329a)

  149. @77

    Which would mean your parade of horrors would go nowhere in the Senate-no Supreme Court or Electoral College change, for example (certainly none that would require a constitutional amendment). If the Supreme Court ruled that the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact required Congressional approval, that would also be DOA.

    What’s not to like about gridlock?

    Rip Murdock (f17b34) — 8/7/2024 @ 3:22 pm

    A KacklingKamala/TamponTimmy win most likely means a unified Congressional Control.

    All those parades of horrors are very much in play.

    whembly (477db6)

  150. @78

    Harris is still within normal parameters. Trump is outside of normal parameters.

    norcal (070ad3) — 8/7/2024 @ 3:22 pm

    What are these “normal parameters” you are describing here?

    Because I don’t see it.

    There’s nothing normal about Kamala’s policy positions.

    whembly (477db6)

  151. @97

    I guess what I’m saying is I think that you should be ashamed for voting for Harris/Welz. They are SO bad that their opponent being a lying cheating scumbag isn’t a sufficient reason.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/7/2024 @ 5:13 pm

    Co-signed.

    whembly (477db6)

  152. @137

    Who’s to say that the other side won’t torch the constitution. They already want to ignore the electoral college. They already want to pack the Supreme Court. Harris is on record as wanting to outlaw guns by executive order.

    Who’s to say what someone may do in the future if not predicted by past actions.

    It was probably Harris that said. “Take the guns first, go through due process second.”

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/8/2024 @ 1:29 am

    Yes, that’s a bad mark on Trump, but he was talking about red flag laws that currently is working it’s way through the legal system. It’ll take another decade or so for courts to give us a final opinion if it’s constitutional infirm.

    But, at least he didn’t praise Australia’s gun control confiscations:
    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/kamala-harris-praises-gun-laws-australia-confiscated-hundreds-thousands-guns
    Gun confiscations on that level absolutely shreds the constitution.

    whembly (477db6)

  153. @140

    In 2016, I told my conservative friends and family that they should vote for Trump if social issues were the most important to them, for Clinton if foreign policy was — by then she had figured out that Putin was not a good guy — and the Libertarian if economics was the most important to them.

    But the Supreme Court is now safely in conservative control, and likely to be for some years — especially if Republicans continue to have a leader as tactically brilliant as Mitch McConnnell. (That would be more certain if Trump hadn’t lost winnable Senate seats.)

    So social conservatives no longer have the same reason to support Trump.

    Jim Miller (0d329a) — 8/8/2024 @ 5:11 am

    Justice Thomas, Justice Alito and CJ Roberts couldn’t be replaced in the next term.

    Social conservatives absolutely have reasons to support Trump, if for no other reasons to ensure that conservatives jurists are replaced with younger conservatives.

    whembly (477db6)

  154. given my options I prefer another 4 years of Trump.

    It’s like “Would you prefer one ball in a vise, or both?”

    Every step along the way, the Democrat alternative has become worse.

    1. Biden again.
    2. Biden again, drooling.
    3. Harris
    4. Harris Walz.

    And we haven’t seen the convention yet, with all the progressives doing a Snoopy dance.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  155. Y’know, when people write that another person should be “ashamed” of the political viewpoints they hold — and that opposing viewpoint is something other than the stuff of Hitler, Mao, Stalin,Pol Pot, Hamas or Putin — they probably need to take a step back.

    Whembly and kevin M fel the risk of Socialism form the Democratic ticket is greater than the risk of authoritarianism from the GOP ticket. I think they just do a mirror image of my nevertrump sense — which is the Constitutional order is more at threat from Project 2025 (which died of bad publicity and will revive when the coast is clear) and Trumps’ desire to be a Latin American dictator, than it is from atrocious policy and nanny statism from the left. Both of us figure that a 50-50 (or thereabouts) Congress will serve as a brake on the awful of the side we pick. Both of us can come up with reasons on why the other side is deluded.

    We post because we enjoy the encounter. Not because we are likely to persuade anyone to change their worldview. Name and shame has no place in this. So, really, don’t declare you are ashamed of the way somebody chooses to vote.

    Appalled (0f9032)

  156. I had quite a bit invested in #neverTrump. Donated to other candidates in 2016 and 2024. Voted for other candidates 2016, 2020 and 2024, primary and general.

    I still despise Donald Trump and that won’t change.

    But I am not so invested that I cannot see reality. I am embarrassed to no end to say that I will vote for Trump/Vance, but there it is. There is no acceptable Democrat alternative and it is MORE important that Harris lose than Trump loses.

    I wonder if some are so invested they cannot break free of their past positions.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  157. Project 2025

    A few guys with computers on banquet tables, made into something big by the MSM. No more important, or real, than McCarthy’s list of Communists in government. Google it and all you will see are 2-minute-hate pieces about the boogeyman.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  158. If Trump dropped out and Vance was put at the top of the ticket, what would be the neverTrump argument against him?

    Jim Miller, would you vote for a ticket with Vance as the headliner?

    BuDuh (b5863b)

  159. @158

    We post because we enjoy the encounter. Not because we are likely to persuade anyone to change their worldview. Name and shame has no place in this. So, really, don’t declare you are ashamed of the way somebody chooses to vote.

    Appalled (0f9032) — 8/8/2024 @ 9:52 am

    Appalled, I do enjoy the interactions here as many people here forces me to re-evaluate my positions to ensure that *I* believe if I’m on sound footings.

    But, I’m going to disagree with you on this plea to stop this name and shame.

    Many on this forum, including the host, has named and shamed posters on things related to Trump. Most of the time, it’s tactful or couched in a way that individuals aren’t called out, but everyone knew who was addressing whom.

    But, ever since J6, that animosity was turned to 11 and I don’t think those who ID themselves as Never Trumpers really can see how far they’re pulling that overton window.

    So you’re going to have to forgive me for not having an Richards to give.

    Democrats are about to be lead with two of the most progressive/liberal political beings in modern history.

    Kamala Harris is a Marxist politician. This is not a hyperbole. I’m not over-reacting here. She is legit, a politician with Marxist/Communist/Authoritorian principles.

    Just listen to how she talks… what can be unburden… strive for equity… she may come off as dumb… but she’s a believer.

    And THAT, makes her so much more dangerous than whatever Trump got your panties twisted.

    whembly (477db6)

  160. Appalled, why do you believe that atrocious policy will not build contraptions we can never be rid of?

    A 17 justice Supreme Court? Undo that.

    Confiscation of guns? Undo that — never has happened anywhere.

    National wealth tax? It will go the way of the income tax and be applied to everyone soon enough.

    Free college? Undo that.

    National school policy featuring “race-based neo-Marxism“? Free tampons for menstruating boys? That’s Walz’s Minnesota. Forced bussing? Harris offered a bill enabling that.

    This may sound like a parade of horribles, but the Progressive takeover of the Democratic Party offers exactly such a parade.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  161. Jim Miller, would you vote for a ticket with Vance as the headliner?

    Can’t speak for Jim, but there are people here who have said that they would not vote for Haley or DeSantis because they did not commit political seppuku when he was nominated.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  162. @161 It’s all about Trump and his coup… but Nevertrump wouldn’t vote for Vance, DeSantis, Cruz, Paul or Youngkin either. They won’t cop to their lie.

    lloyd (3a8615)

  163. Another single-issue voter makes his simple stand. Again.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/7/2024 @ 6:59 pm

    You seem to be making the same stand.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  164. @Rip @Paul @AJ…

    As you were…
    https://jonathanturley.org/2024/08/08/the-justice-department-makes-the-case-against-hunter-biden-and-itself-in-california/#more-222203


    Weiss just made the case against the Justice Department and himself in protecting Hunter Biden from the most damaging charges of being an unregistered foreign agent. In a new filing, Weiss released evidence on Hunter seeking money to advance the interests of a Romanian on United States policy.

    Weiss’ team said they plan to introduce evidence showing his sophisticated scheme to tap foreign sources interested in influencing the government and federal policy.

    So, now, the Justice Department is citing some of these dealings to show a conscious and premeditated effort to shake down foreigners to influence U.S. policy. Weiss now maintains that “The defendant did receive compensation from a foreign principal to attempt to influence U.S. policy and public opinion, as alleged in the indictment, and this evidence is relevant.”

    They have made more than the case against Hunter Biden. They have made a conclusive and overwhelming case against themselves in slow walking and minimizing charges against the President’s son.

    Here’s the filing:
    https://jonathanturley.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/gov.uscourts.cacd_.907805.181.0.pdf

    whembly (477db6)

  165. “This is not a hyperbole. I’m not over-reacting here.”

    Why doesn’t this put me at ease….

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  166. My recollection of the pre-Trump Republican Party is several decades of fighting a bunch of battles they had no intention of ever winning and managing our decline. This is what folks here want to return to.

    lloyd (3a8615)

  167. “They won’t cop to their lie.”

    Why does this not persuade me….

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  168. “But I am not so invested that I cannot see reality.”

    This seems to conflict with #163…

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  169. @168

    “This is not a hyperbole. I’m not over-reacting here.”

    Why doesn’t this put me at ease….

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 8/8/2024 @ 10:24 am

    You tell me.

    whembly (477db6)

  170. whembly (477db6) — 8/8/2024 @ 10:24 am

    So what?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  171. If HB did accept funds from a foreign national to influence US policies, then he should be indicted for failing to register as foreign agent, just as Menendez was.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  172. We caught AJ in the middle of his therapy session.

    lloyd (3a8615)

  173. @173

    whembly (477db6) — 8/8/2024 @ 10:24 am

    So what?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/8/2024 @ 10:34 am

    Cool, cool… so influence peddling is kosher.

    whembly (477db6)

  174. Bring out the popcorn:

    Trump holds news conference at Mar-a-Lago

    Before anyone brings up the fact that Harris hasn’t held a press conference since becoming the Democratic nominee, I don’t care.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  175. If Trump dropped out and Vance was put at the top of the ticket, what would be the neverTrump argument against him?

    Jim Miller, would you vote for a ticket with Vance as the headliner?

    BuDuh (b5863b) — 8/8/2024 @ 10:03 am

    Would probably vote for Vance, but i don’t know enough about him to say for sure.
    +Military service, Smart, Creative, standard GOP economics.
    -Dishonest (based on his shifting statements about trump and support for Trump), Populist, too focused on the culture war stuff.

    But on balance he’s so much better than Harris that without Trump that I wouldn’t vote for Harris to keep Vance from being president. Might vote libertarian but would definitely not vote Harris in a Vance/Harris match up.

    Time123 (9f3476)

  176. Cool, cool… so influence peddling is kosher.

    whembly (477db6) — 8/8/2024 @ 10:41 am

    You must have this response one minute later:

    If HB did accept funds from a foreign national to influence US policies, then he should be indicted for failing to register as foreign agent, just as Menendez was.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/8/2024 @ 10:35 am

    The “so what” quip was why you flagged me on this item. I have no truck with HB-he’s a private citizen and shouldn’t receive any special considerations.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  177. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/8/2024 @ 10:43 am

    I’m sure it will be a completely issue-based press conference. 🤣

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  178. Day 19 of Kamala dodging an adoring media.

    lloyd (3a8615)

  179. “I’m sure it will be a completely issue-based press conference.”

    I’m sure it will be non-stop hardball questions.

    Too bad Kamala can’t handle beach ball questions.

    lloyd (b2311c)

  180. lloyd (b2311c) — 8/8/2024 @ 10:51 am

    I agree.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  181. @161 It’s all about Trump and his coup… but Nevertrump wouldn’t vote for Vance, DeSantis, Cruz, Paul or Youngkin either. They won’t cop to their lie.

    lloyd (3a8615) — 8/8/2024 @ 10:21 am

    I hope fate gives me a chance to prove you wrong. But in the real world you all picked Trump before I even had a chance to vote in the primary. You picked the one candidate the Joe Biden was able to beat by hiding in his basement and occasionally venturing forth to clear the ankle high hurdle of ‘not being Trump’

    You complain (rightly) that Harris isn’t doing interviews but the she’s recognized that at this point in time the best argument she can present for “why her” is “Because she’s not Him” and letting the public remember who and what Trump really is is a powerful campaign strategy. It works because so many ppl detest for very good reasons that they just want to vote ‘other’ and the more they know about her the more they have reasons to dislike her, so keeping it Trump vs Not Trump is a winner for her.

    Eventually it won’t be and she’ll have to change strategy, but it’s working now, and Trump’s lack of discipline and emotional maturity helps it along. He doesn’t care about policy he cares about winning a popularity contest that proves ppl like him. Look at the dumb attacks he’s made so far; claiming she’s not really black, making fun of her name, calling her dumb.

    If you’d picked any other candidate I doubt it would even be close at this point. But you all wanted to have Trump so now the choice is between the Guy that triead to steal the last presidential election and left wing statist.

    Time123 (9f3476)

  182. @179

    The “so what” quip was why you flagged me on this item. I have no truck with HB-he’s a private citizen and shouldn’t receive any special considerations.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/8/2024 @ 10:46 am

    You never cared.

    Joe Biden was *the* Hunter Biden business. But your reaction was always to “hand wave” it away or argue that GOP should impeach if they can.

    whembly (477db6)

  183. @159, it’s not how invested I am in past choices. It’s that you’re wrong.

    Time123 (9f3476)

  184. Very small nutshell. I’d be interested in reading a longer-form article from French — and also from our host, Patterico — on why they think Trump should be defeated. I also with Harris had picked Shapiro. What a missed opportunity.

    JRH (489761)

  185. *wish Harris had picked Shapiro.

    JRH (489761)

  186. @186 Hunter took money for his perceived ability to influence his father. You’ve never shown that his father was infuenced. I agree that Hunter should be prosecuted for the laws he broke. So should Trump and so should Joe. Problem is that the House wasn’t able to find compelling evidence that Joe broke any laws so they didn’t impeach him.

    Time123 (9f3476)

  187. Joe Biden was *the* Hunter Biden business. But your reaction was always to “hand wave” it away or argue that GOP should impeach if they can.

    whembly (477db6) — 8/8/2024 @ 11:01 am

    If Joe Biden was “the” Hunter Biden business, the only way to punish President Biden is to remove him by impeachment, followed by a prosecution. Do you know an alternative process?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  188. @185 Hate to disappoint you, Time123, but I never voted for Trump in any primary. I voted for Cruz in 2016, sat out the 2020 primary and would‘ve voted for DeSantis this year had he stayed in the race. The Kamala bunker strategy seems to be working only because people like you don’t seem to have a problem with it, and it even looks like you’re giving her kudos. An unelected and untested nominee coddled in bubble wrap would seem to be a very bad sign especially when compared to the terrible Trump, but ok. You approve.

    lloyd (b2311c)

  189. More recent info on the PP scandal that, at the time, AG Harris employed lawfare to suppress evidence:
    https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2024/08/08/pull-off-a-leg-or-two-the-undercover-planned-parenthood-videos-kamala-tried-to-bury-n3792858


    Instead, the end of the nine-year fight over the videos just happens to coincide with The Anointment, and they’re news all over again. Of course, Harris might not have gotten elected to the Senate in 2016 without having coordinated the lawfare against Daleiden, either.

    What about the videos themselves? They’re horrific, and carry a NSFW warning from CMP based on the content of the conversations. The first video shows a conversation between their undercover reporter, Dr. Ann Schutt-Aine, the Chief Medical Officer of Planned Parenthood Gulf Coast, and Tram Nguyen, RN, the branch’s Vice President of Abortion Access. That conversation relates more to the legal problems of Planned Parenthood’s tissue sales:

    The second conversation may be even more legally problematic for Planned Parenthood’s execs. They discuss how they “disarticulate” fetuses during the procedure for the explicit purpose of not having to comply with the PBA:

    Yeah, I’d call that “f***ing evil,” and it’s clear that they knew it at the time, too. So did Kamala Harris, which is why she worked so hard to bury this reporting and punish the people who exposed the evil.

    The cover-up did one thing, though. It made sure that these Planned Parenthood officials can’t be prosecuted for any crimes, since the statutes of limitation will almost certainly make it impossible for Texas or federal prosecutors to investigate. For that, Planned Parenthood still owes Kamala Harris and her use of state prosecutorial power to help cover up their potential crimes and admissions.

    But, sure guys… Harris is better than Trump.

    whembly (477db6)

  190. You seem to be making the same stand.

    No. My path to my decision is rather complicated. But then you abhor people who change their minds when faced with new data, so I doubt you would understand.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  191. My recollection of the pre-Trump Republican Party is several decades of fighting a bunch of battles they had no intention of ever winning and managing our decline. This is what folks here want to return to.

    To be fair, Trump had as much effect himself. One of the reasons I find him the better choice actually.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  192. This seems to conflict with #163…

    Glib, but you must have a defense for supporting Harris anyway.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  193. I’m sure it will be a completely issue-based press conference.

    I’m sure that no questions will be about issues.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  194. If you’d picked any other candidate I doubt it would even be close at this point. But you all wanted to have Trump so now the choice is between the Guy that tried to steal the last presidential election and left wing statist.

    For very weak values of “try” but even then, why do you think left-0wing statist is better?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  195. If it was Vance v. Harris, we’re pretty close to normal, though with two candidates with weak resumes. I like governors that have actually governed, rather than junior Senators with little to no executive experience. Neither Vance nor Harris excite me with their foreign policy chops. The question is how much does Vance’s schtick change without Trump….and will Trump or team Trump still be trying to steer the bus? On the good side, he’s not unhinged and under indictment…and speaks in paragraphs, but he’s still an unknown as to what sort of agenda he would push.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  196. And really, why is no one looking at Walz and his positions? Sure a VP has limited power, but this is the VP that Harris picked with no one to gainsay her. Her free and favorite choice.

    Here is a 60yo man with no investments. All he has besides his salary are a state pension and some passbook savings. He doesn’t even own a house. Such a man not only has no empathy for those that do invest, he has no understanding of why they invest or the risks they take — risks he studiously avoids. He is the poster boy for the Iron Rice Bowl.

    It’s no surprise that his fiscal policy as governor has been to hike income taxes, cut business deductions and offer tax freebies to those with little income. How’s that working out for job growth in Minnesota? Not well, unless you work for the state:

    Minnesota boasts a low employment rate (2.9%), but that’s less impressive than it seems. Nearly all of its job growth under Mr. Walz has been in industries that rely on government spending. Since he entered office in January 2019, Minnesota has added a net 41,500 jobs. This includes 43,900 in healthcare and social assistance and 12,600 in government.

    Private industries have lost jobs, including finance, information, professional and business services, retail, manufacturing and leisure and hospitality. Such job losses started before the pandemic but accelerated during Mr. Walz’s prolonged lockdowns and have increased during the last year.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  197. . but he’s still an unknown as to what sort of agenda he would push.

    And is Harris’s agenda push unknown to you as well?

    BuDuh (b5863b)

  198. Here’s a favorable site, lauding Walz’s lack of investments

    Such a man sees investors as Ferengi.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  199. And is Harris’s agenda push unknown to you as well?

    To be fair, she’s been consistent. I know better what she would do than I do about Trump. And it’s all terrible. I suspect she’d punt on Ukraine at her first chance so she could “spend the money here at home.”

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  200. @192, you’re confusing an assessment of the strategies effectivity (eg horse race politics) with personal approval.

    Time123 (9f3476)

  201. The one thing that gives me pause. If Walz has no invetments, does he have debt? Debt is just as important as investments in figuring out someone’s financial position.

    Also, the idea that this guy is living paycheck to paycheck…He did have jobs that pay pretty good pensions (teacher; military; congress).

    Appalled (88a1a3)

  202. Speaking of Ukraine, they have invaded Russia. I’m expecting a Security Council meeting to address this unprovoked incursion.

    Previous Ukrainian offensives into Russia, mainly its Belgorod region, were led by anti-Putin volunteer militant groups not formally affiliated with Ukraine’s Armed Forces. But this week’s assault appears to involve some 1,000 troops from elite assault brigades with U.S. and German armored vehicles and tanks that crossed the border on Tuesday from Sumy, according to Russian officials and pro-war military bloggers.

    But wait, I thought they didn’t use our tanks. I bet they are frantically “not using” a lot of the stuff we sent.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  203. But you are not voting against them in any meaningful way.

    It’s a rejection of both. In WA State, where Trump lost by double digits and will lose again this year by double digits, it’s my most meaningful option.

    Paul Montagu (383f45)

  204. @198 Kevin, the fact that Trump’s sincere attempt to steal the 2020 election through lies, fraud, and illegal acts failed does not make it ok or lessen the severity of what he tried to do.

    But a left wing statist who has never tried to steal an election is better then a right wing statist that did try to steel the election because so long as ppl have the opportunity to vote in new leadership they have the chance to change the direction.

    Time123 (9f3476)

  205. Speaking of Ukraine, they have invaded Russia. I’m expecting a Security Council meeting to address this unprovoked incursion.

    How do you not see Russian attacks over the last 2 years a provocation to war? They’ve bombed cities, killed tens of thousands, tuned villages into rape camps, and committed numerous war crimes….all of that is a provocation for retaliation.

    Any country that did that to the US would be lucky to be habitable at this point.

    Time123 (449a4d)

  206. @199, AJ I agree, that’s why I landed at would probably vote for him, doubt i would vote for Harris to stop him from being elected.

    Time123 (449a4d)

  207. Trump said today we could get into another Great Depression (that actually was Monday’s news but things now look better) and also World War III because the Biden Administration does not know how to handle things.

    He also offered 3 debates, on Fox, on NBC and also on ABC – except that ABC would be the last one.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  208. If Trump loses, it’s because THIS GUY demanded early debates.

    Donald Trump’s campaign is calling for more presidential debates to be held between him and President Joe Biden, and for the proposed face-offs to begin as early as possible to ensure that more Americans “have a full chance” to see the candidates in action before they cast their ballot.

    “While the Commission on Presidential Debates has already announced three presidential debates and a vice-presidential debate to occur later this year, we are in favor of these debates beginning much earlier,” Trump’s co-campaign managers Susie Wiles and Chris LaCivita said in a letter Thursday.

    Just imagine if that first debate was September 16th as the Debate Commission proposed. At that point, Biden would be the nominee with no way out. I think it’s no mistake that Biden didn’t drop out until the RNC was over. He let Trump lock in all his plans, then he gave it over to Harris. Pelosi this, Schumer that. It was all a plan.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  209. How do you not see Russian attacks over the last 2 years a provocation to war?

    Geeze, Time. Is sarcasm lost on you? I may prefer Trump to Harris, but that does not mean I love Putin now. I just have 2 terrible choices and I pick what seems less terrible. Other people have seen their choice drift left and left again and still find it the better choice. To quote Darth, pray they do not alter the deal again.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  210. https://fortune.com/2024/08/08/tim-walz-net-worth

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tim-walz-net-worth-less-123358911.html

    Financial disclosures show Tim Walz barely has any assets to his name. [as of 2019] No stocks, bonds, or even property to call his own. Together with his wife, Gwen, his net worth is $330,000, according to a report by the Wall Street Journal citing financial disclosures from 2019, the year after he became Minnesota governor. ….

    …Meanwhile, the gross annual income of Walz and his wife, Gwen, amounted to $166,719 before tax in 2022, according to their joint return filed that same year. Walz is even entitled to earn more than the $127,629 salary he receives as state governor, but he has elected not to receive the roughly $22,000 difference.

    That last sentence is not clear. Can he request a raise, or is it that he is allowed to receive $22,000 in outside income?

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  211. @213 Kevin, WOOSH that’s the sound of your joke flying right over my head. 😀

    Time123 (9f3476)

  212. @212, you’re giving the Dem’s a lot of credit for planning and Biden a lot of credit for being humble.

    Time123 (9f3476)

  213. 174. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/8/2024 @ 10:35 am

    If HB did accept funds from a foreign national to influence US policies, then he should be indicted for failing to register as foreign agent, just as Menendez was.

    I think Menendez, who was a United States Senator, was indicted for something more serious than not registering as a foreign agent.

    He was indicted and convicted of accepting bribes, and part of what he was bribed to do involved acting as an agent of the Egyptian government. Not registering does not appear to be one of the charges, judging from this AP article:

    https://apnews.com/article/menendez-bribery-trial-jury-deliberations-bab89b99a77fc6ce95531c88ab26cc4d

    U.S. Sen. Bob Menendez was convicted of all charges Tuesday in a sweeping corruption trial in which he was accused of accepting bribes of gold and cash from three New Jersey businessmen and acting as an agent for the Egyptian government.

    A jury in Manhattan deliberated for parts of three days before finding the Democrat guilty of 16 crimes, including bribery, extortion, honest services fraud, obstruction of justice and conspiracy.

    Prosecutor said he abused the power of his office to protect allies from criminal investigations and enrich associates, including his wife, through acts that included meeting with Egyptian intelligence officials and softening his position toward that country as he speeded its access to millions of dollars in U.S. military aid….

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  214. @161 It’s all about Trump and his coup… but Nevertrump wouldn’t vote for Vance, DeSantis, Cruz, Paul or Youngkin either. They won’t cop to their lie.

    That itself is a lie.

    Paul Montagu (383f45)

  215. Vance-Nope
    DeSantis-Nope
    Cruz-Possibly
    Paul-Nope
    Younkin-Possibly

    Haley-Definitely

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  216. rom link @202.

    Not even real estate. The couple sold their Mankato, Minnesota, home after moving into the governor’s mansion, for below the $315k asking price).

    So what did they do with the money they got for the house?

    Put it into a 529 in the name of their children?

    Or they were in the 15th year of a 30 year mortgage and had little equity?

    No, they made a profit.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/harris-running-mate-gov-tim-walz-owns-no-stocks-bonds-real-estate-disc-rcna165737

    In 2019, after Walz was elected governor, he and his wife sold their Mankato, Minnesota, home and moved into the governor’s mansion. They listed the four-bedroom house for $315,000, after buying it in 1997 for $145,000.

    He’s got more money than he needs or knows what to do with:

    Walz’s salary as governor of Minnesota is $127,629. He was eligible for a raise last year to $149,550, but he chose not to accept it, according to the state.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  217. Sununu-Definitely
    Murkowski-Definitely
    Snow-Probably
    Cheney-Definitely
    Romney-Definitely
    Young-Definitely

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  218. I suspect (Harris would) punt on Ukraine at her first chance so she could “spend the money here at home.”

    And you don’t think on Trump’s “day one as dictator” he wouldn’t do the same? His antipathy (to put it mildly) toward Ukraine goes back to the 2016 campaign. Thinking Trump would abandon Ukraine has more of a factual basis than your fantasy.

    I seem to remember impeachment hearings that revealed that…….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  219. 149.

    Tim Walz signed a bill that lets the State take away your kids if you don’t agree to sterilize them and chop off their body parts in the name of “gender affirming care.”

    They didn’t need a bill for that. hose determinations are made by courts.

    I think what the bill said was that in case there was a custody dispute in another state, and a court in the other state ordered that the child be returned from Minnesota before any interference with puberty was done; or there was an investigation in a state where such a procedure was illegal, but a parent or somebody else had done that by taking the child to Minnesota, all subpoenas and court requests in that connection would be ignored.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  220. Some extemporaneous comments by Kamala Harris (at rallies to supporters and to hecklers, but ot to reporters)

    https://www.newser.com/story/354148/harris-stops-lock-him-up-chant-at-campaign-rally.html

    In the first rally, in Eau Claire, Wisconsin, the vice president spoke about how she knows Donald Trump’s “type” from her history as a prosecutor, but she stopped a chant of “Lock him up” before it had a chance to get going, Mediaite reports. “Well, hold on, you know what? The courts are going to handle that part of it,” she said after somebody shouted the line. “What we’re going to do is beat them in November.” Harris also stopped a “Lock him up” chant, mimicking Trump supporters’ chant of “Lock her up” during his 2016 race against Hillary Clinton, when she spoke with Walz in Philadelphia on Tuesday, reports the Washington Post…

    …Later Wednesday, Harris was interrupted by people protesting the war in Gaza when she spoke in an airport hangar outside Detroit, the Hill reports. According to the New York Post, they were chanting, “Kamala! Kamala! You can’t hide! We won’t vote for genocide.” Harris replied, “I’m here because we believe in democracy. Everyone’s voice matters, but I am speaking now. I am speaking now.” After the chants continued, she said, more sternly, “You know what, if you want Donald Trump to win, then say that. Otherwise, I’m speaking.” The Detroit Free Press reports that she “then delivered a withering stare at the protesters and did not relent for some time.” The AP reports that the protesters were eventually escorted out of the venue after a “tense confrontation” with Harris supporters…

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  221. “There’s no guarantee to free speech on misinformation or hate speech, and especially around our democracy.”

    –Tim Walz

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  222. Well that’s a horribly wrong POV. Sadly it lines up with with the theme I see from a lot of people of looking for exceptions to our free speech rights or ways to excuse and ignore violations of it.

    Time123 (9f3476)

  223. Here is a similar question to those voting Harris/Walz over Trump/Vance:

    Is there a position that Harris could take that would make you vote for Trump to keep her out of power?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  224. I think what the bill said was that in case there was a custody dispute in another state

    Less convoluted: Where a non-custodial parent takes the kid to Minnesota and the kidnapping warrant is not honored.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  225. but a parent or somebody else had done that by taking the child to Minnesota

    OK, so just any kidnapper.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  226. This seems to describe the Minnesota law more exactly:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/08/07/tim-walz-minnesota-trans-refuge-bill

    Walz made Minnesota a ‘trans refuge,’ championing gender-affirming care

    Walz issued an executive order and signed a 2023 bill to shield people from punishment by other states for seeking and delivering gender affirming care.

    In March 2023, Walz issued an executive order protecting trans patients’ ability to receive medical care that helps them live according to their gender identity. The order shields patients, parents and providers from punishment by other states for seeking and delivering such care. The next month, he signed legislation enshrining similar protections that supporters said would establish Minnesota as a “trans refuge.”

    After Vice President Kamala Harris named Walz as her running mate, conservatives began attacking those actions, falsely accusing him of allowing the state to terminate parental custody if parents prevent their trans children from receiving gender-affirming care.

    A judge could do that anyway. That’s not what they needed the law for.

    I don’t think it protects kidnappers wit no connection to the child but it could protect the custodial parent against a court order obtained by the noncustodial parent.

    The Minnesota law allows courts to have “temporary emergency jurisdiction” during custody disputes crossing state lines if a child has been unable to obtain gender-affirming care. Kat Rohn, executive director of OutFront, an LGBTQ+ advocacy organization in St. Paul, Minn., said the law gives courts the ability to resolve conflicts when parents disagree on whether their child should receive gender-affirming care; it does not remove custody from parents who decline such care.

    In providing gender-affirming care for trans children and adolescents, clinicians may offer patients counseling to assist in their social transition to match their gender identity such as changing their names, pronouns and hairstyles. They may also prescribe puberty-suppressing treatments under close monitoring. They generally do not offer genital surgeries until adulthood.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  227. They may also prescribe puberty-suppressing treatments under close monitoring. They generally do not offer genital surgeries until adulthood.

    The one eventually requires the other.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  228. Don’t vote for corporals! Trust me on this!

    nk (5ae8f5)

  229. And it’s not a sin not to feed Goldman Sachs.

    nk (5ae8f5)

  230. I think was Walz was picked because he was willing to lie or echo ideas other people came up with.

    1. He was the one who first used the word “weird” to describe Vance and Trump. Weird being anti-
    abortion.

    2. He has used in speeches a common anti-“assault weapon” argument but blithely applied it to himself even though it was not true. He said certain weapons are weapons of war like he had carried “in war” when he never was in a combat zone..

    https://www.facebook.com/NYPost/videos/tim-walzs-claim-that-he-carried-weapons-in-war-was-deemed-absolutely-false-by-a-/866929492057299

    We also saw later Walz using the word couch in a way that gave it a double meaning.

    There had been a false claim that in his book, JD Vance had claimed that he did something with his couch. It’s not in the book.

    But he did claim to be a hillbilly, and so this was believable to some. People from these places (West Virginia or Appalachia in general) are supposed to do things that people who support LBGTQ activities still don’t like.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  231. 341. Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/8/2024 @ 2:57 pm

    The one eventually requires the other.

    The first one makes the second one simpler, but it has permanent damaging consequences.

    It’ll all be regarded as malpractice, like lobotomies, within 10 years or so.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  232. 222. I don’t think we know what Trump would actually do with regard to the Ukraine war.

    For awhile, in 2019 Putin, through his agents, had Trump convinced that people affiliated with Zelensky had worked against his election in 2016.

    And that Crowdstrike was owned by Ukrainians and had hidden evidence there that the DNC server had not been hacked.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/25/us/politics/crowdstrike-ukraine.html

    “I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say CrowdStrike … I guess you have one of your wealthy people … The server, they say Ukraine has it,” Mr. Trump said during a phone call with the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelensky, on July 25, according to a reconstruction of the call based on notes and voice recognition transcription software. Administration officials said the ellipses in the transcript represent words that trailed off or were inaudible…

    …In asking Mr. Zelensky for a “favor” in the July 25 call, Mr. Trump appeared to be referencing an unfounded conspiracy theory that Ukrainians, not Russians, were behind the D.N.C. hacking, and the Ukrainians framed the Russian government to make it look like that country was working with Mr. Trump’s presidential campaign. Rudolph W. Giuliani, Mr. Trump’s personal attorney, has been among those pushing this theory.

    In mentioning CrowdStrike, Mr. Trump appeared to be suggesting that the company helped cover up Ukraine’s role in the intrusion and that an examination of a D.N.C. server, which he asserted in the call was in Ukraine, would show that. One of the primary servers was on display in the basement of the D.N.C. in December 2016, months after it was taken offline.

    It is true that the servers themselves were not physically examined by the F.B.I., but CrowdStrike, which has a former senior F.B.I. official on its executive team, gave forensic evidence to federal investigators, including exact replicas of the data contained on the servers…

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  233. There is a 5th column in Iran: (I don’t kno how informed he is, but this is what is included in the “My Take on the News” column in the Jewish weekly Yated Ne’eman dated August 9, 2024)

    …Not only did Israel manage to kill one of the leading mass murderers in Hamas, but they did it on Iranian soil. In fact, the more details emerge about the operation, the more we discover how daring it was and how many people within Iran participated in it. Activists within the Revolutionary Guard were responsible planting bombs in the three rooms of the apartment where Haniyeh stayed. Moreover, at the very last minute, Haniyeh changed his travel plans; e=he was originally supposed to stay in a guesthouse dedicated to the memory of “the victims of the Iran-Iraq war,” and then changed his destination to amore clandestine and secure location, about 20 minutes away from is originally intended accommodations. It was in the second destination that he was killed. The targeted strike affected only the apartment where Haniyeh was staying, ad there are rumors in Iran that one of his bodyguards was responsible for providing information on is whereabouts to the assassins. The reporter who published this story speculate that in this case, as in previous assassinations of nuclear scientists or other senior terrorists, Iranians opposed to the regime acted as agents for the Mossad. Iranian authorities have already detained dozens of people suspected of collaborating with Israel.

    He notes that United States hurried to insist it had no connection to it. (weren’t told about it in advance but were briefed afterwards)

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  234. Another bad, tyrannical idea from Trump:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/trump-says-he-should-get-a-say-on-federal-reserve-interest-rate-decisions/ar-AA1otCbv?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=1c8be37f658f4d119a3111153cf5b523&ei=60

    The Fed is independent for a reason. The last thing we need is to politicize it.

    For those of you who only want to see Trump’s “policies” (never mind his policy of denying election results, like he did in the 2016 Iowa primary when he lost to Ted Cruz), this is a detrimental policy proposal.

    norcal (d61ffa)

  235. here are accusations bein made in Israel originating maybe with Hamas or other mediators but raised by the opposition that Netanyahu had had raised demands and spoiled a deal for the return of hostages. This is probably not true.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  236. Trump occasionally is right But if he were righter he would have appointed different people to the Fed,

    And the Fed was not so independent during most of the Roosevelt and the Truman Administrations (till March 4, 1951)

    Things didn’t get better after that.

    Elected politicians can be wrong and the Fed can be wrong.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  237. @219 @221
    Vance-Nope
    DeSantis-Nope
    Cruz-Possibly
    Paul-Nope
    Younkin-Possibly

    Haley-Definitely

    Sununu-Definitely
    Murkowski-Definitely
    Snow-Probably
    Cheney-Definitely
    Romney-Definitely
    Young-Definitely

    I rest my case. It’s not about Trump, or his coup. Thanks Klink.

    lloyd (b2311c)

  238. Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/8/2024 @ 10:18 am

    Confiscation of guns? Undo that — never has happened anywhere.

    In a democracy, I guess. They say Australia, but
    they paid for the guns.

    https://www.vox.com/2015/8/27/9212725/australia-buyback

    Between October 1996 and September 1997, Australia responded to its own gun violence problem with a solution that was both straightforward and severe: It collected roughly 650,000 privately held guns. It was one of the largest mandatory gun buyback programs in recent history.

    Also:

    Free college? Undo that.

    New York City had free college from 1847 to 1977. But until 1980 there were admissions requirements beyond just a high school diploma.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  239. I don’t think we know what Trump would actually do with regard to the Ukraine war.

    I’m pretty sure that it would involve more concessions from Ukraine than Russia.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  240. The Fed is independent for a reason. The last thing we need is to politicize it.

    Indeed. But this isn’t a new idea and it’s not usually a Republican idea. The basic argument is that fiscal policy and monetary policy should be coordinated and the Fed often works to thwart expansionist fiscal policy, a concern mostly to liberals.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  241. New York City had free college from 1847 to 1977. But until 1980 there were admissions requirements beyond just a high school diploma.

    “Free” has nothing to do with admissions requirements. If public colleges were free (or had a negative tuition like in France) government could never walk that back without a serious struggle.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  242. Here is a similar question to those voting Harris/Walz over Trump/Vance:

    Is there a position that Harris could take that would make you vote for Trump to keep her out of power?

    No answer. I guess that is and answer.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  243. Is there a position that Harris could take that would make you vote for Trump to keep her out of power?

    No answer. I guess that is and answer.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/8/2024 @ 5:27 pm

    If she proposed seizing my IRA and 401(k), and giving me some kind of paltry annuity in their stead, I would vote for Trump.

    norcal (d61ffa)

  244. Indeed. But this isn’t a new idea and it’s not usually a Republican idea.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/8/2024 @ 5:21 pm

    All the more reason to be alarmed that Trump is pushing it

    norcal (d61ffa)

  245. Kevin, yes, there are plenty of things Harris could do that would make
    Her worse then Trump.

    Time123 (ec98d5)

  246. I think Kevin wants you to be specific, Time.

    norcal (d61ffa)

  247. https://hotair.com/david-strom/2024/08/07/walz-executive-order-1-was-n3792806

    Minnesota, you see, didn’t have a Diversity, Inclusion, and Equity Council, and he needed to fix that. It was so high a priority for him that he made himself its chair in addition to establishing the council.

    His very first act as governor.

    NJRob (3a08a3)

  248. Is there a position that Harris could take that would make you vote for Trump to keep her out of power?

    I cannot think of anything that would not be constrained by Congress, the Courts, the law enforcement and military establishments, the bureaucracy, the financial and business institutions, and popular resistance.

    Yes, I know, that has been said about Trump too, but it’s machts nichts to me. I want his wrinkled old orange ass far, far away from the White House.

    nk (5ae8f5)

  249. @219 @221
    Vance-Nope
    DeSantis-Nope
    Cruz-Possibly
    Paul-Nope
    Younkin-Possibly

    Haley-Definitely

    Sununu-Definitely
    Murkowski-Definitely
    Snow-Probably
    Cheney-Definitely
    Romney-Definitely
    Young-Definitely

    I rest my case. It’s not about Trump, or his coup. Thanks Klink.

    lloyd (b2311c) — 8/8/2024 @ 3:47 pm

    You ask for Republicans who aren’t Trump, I showed you Republicans not Trump. Note that you glommed onto being against the MAGAs, and for Not Trump. Again, I rest my case, you’re full MAGA, anti-American, anti-democratic, pro-authoritarian, pro-mentally deranged.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  250. Klink with his Algonquin Round Table talk again.

    lloyd (930c78)

  251. Klink likes the RINO, social leftist, wing.

    The ones that know how to lose gracefully to leftists and entrench leftist policies into law.

    NJRob (3a08a3)

  252. All the more reason to be alarmed that Trump is pushing it

    It’s all part of his working class/middle class focus. High interest rates are not bad for people who HAVE money. Think of him as Dick Ge3phardt and you’re halfway there.

    The Sixth Party System is now dead and something new is taking its place. Although it is unsurprising that the middle America that Trump is catering to is mostly in those Red States anyway.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  253. Please tell me how:

    Murkowski is a social leftist?
    Cruz is a social leftist?
    Younkin is a social leftist?
    Haley is a social leftist?
    Sununu is a social leftist?
    Murkowski is a social leftist?
    Snow is a social leftist?
    Cheney is a social leftist?
    Romney is a social leftist?
    Young is a social leftist?

    Please, tell me how these folks are socialist leftists? Be specific. What they are is conservatives, not authoritarian wannabe dictators.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  254. I cannot think of anything that would not be constrained by Congress, the Courts, the law enforcement and military establishments, the bureaucracy, the financial and business institutions, and popular resistance.

    WIth even a tiny majority in both Houses, she could add 6 seats to the Supreme Court. What’s to stop her?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  255. Please, tell me how these folks are socialist leftists? Be specific.

    I think he’s complaining that all these folks are centrists. And some of them were maybes to you, so no fair in listing them.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  256. Of course the real opposition to the Fed has been from people like Rothbard and the Pauls.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  257. WIth even a tiny majority in both Houses, she could add 6 seats to the Supreme Court. What’s to stop her?

    Your question was what would make me vote for Trump to keep her out of power. Six more gerbils to feed and their three dozen or so clerks and staff is nothing compared to the prenup special putting together a White House photo album while her husband incited a mob against the Vice President and Congress.

    nk (6c45b4)

  258. I think he’s complaining that all these folks are centrists. And some of them were maybes to you, so no fair in listing them.

    Ahh!

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  259. @238

    Another bad, tyrannical idea from Trump:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/trump-says-he-should-get-a-say-on-federal-reserve-interest-rate-decisions/ar-AA1otCbv?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=1c8be37f658f4d119a3111153cf5b523&ei=60

    The Fed is independent for a reason. The last thing we need is to politicize it.

    For those of you who only want to see Trump’s “policies” (never mind his policy of denying election results, like he did in the 2016 Iowa primary when he lost to Ted Cruz), this is a detrimental policy proposal.

    norcal (d61ffa) — 8/8/2024 @ 3:38 pm

    The Federal Reserve is NOT a government entity. It’s a private entity who’s ONLY customer is the US.

    The Reserve’s ONLY interest is their own.

    It’s not even a bad thing if you’d want politically accountable branch of government to set monetary policies, in fact, most of the world’s own government can do so.

    The problem with Trump’s initiative, is that he cannot do it unilaterally. Congress must pass a law that allows either/or Congress or Executive branch more say in monetary policies.

    I can be convinced it’d be a bad idea to do so… but, it’s far from a tyrannical idea.

    whembly (84f475)

  260. https://hotair.com/john-s-2/2024/08/08/ukraine-invades-russia-and-quickly-seizes-territory-n3792898

    After months of losing ground to Russia in brutal, grinding battles in Ukraine, Kyiv shifted tactics with a surprise attack into Russian territory this week that caught Moscow off guard and opened a new front in the 30-month war.

    Ukrainian forces have punched through Russian border defenses and seized several settlements in fighting that was still raging on Thursday, according to Russian officials, a Ukrainian soldier and analysts. The attack triggered a state of emergency in one region in the west of Russia. Ukrainian armored columns were filmed moving along roads as far as six miles inside Russia…

    The goal was to shift the fighting — and Russian soldiers and weaponry — onto Russian territory and ease the pressure of Moscow’s offensive in eastern Ukraine, a senior Ukrainian official said. He asked not to be cited by name, as Ukraine has not acknowledged its soldiers are fighting in Russia…

    “They were not expecting us, and they fled wherever they could,” said a Ukrainian soldier who fought in the assault and who asked to be identified by only his first name, Oleksandr, in keeping with Ukrainian military protocol. His unit took prisoners and captured a tank, he said in a telephone interview.

    Bruh…

    LMAO… if Ukraine truly did seize towns INSIDE Russia… bruh… kudos to those warriors!

    whembly (84f475)

  261. I think he’s complaining that all these folks are centrists.

    He didn’t say “centrists”, he said “social leftists”.

    Paul Montagu (4b6f74)

  262. He didn’t say “centrists”, he said “social leftists”.

    Consider the source.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  263. Social leftists are not moderate by any stretch of the word.

    Murkowski has more in common with the left than the right.

    NJRob (f6bd85)

  264. NJRob is on a quest to make sure the conservative movement is small and of only pure blood.

    Radical communists like Romney, Haley, Bush, Chaney and other moobys of their ilk should not consider themselves conservatives like him.

    Time123 (974e9d)

  265. Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 8/8/2024 @ 7:38 pm

    I would add Gov. Brian Kemp to your list.

    Rip Murdock (f17b34)

  266. Time,

    I’m not the one demanding that the only people I’d support are social leftists and RINOs. But nice try at projecting.

    NJRob (f6bd85)

  267. RINO: “Not of the body

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  268. It’s time for Trump to drop out.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  269. https://www.racket.news/p/american-stasi-tulsi-gabbard-confirms

    Leftists always engage in the fascist actions they accuse their opponents of trying.

    But many here support these actions because “Trump.”

    NJRob (f6bd85)

  270. Does Senator Murkowski have “more in common with the left than the right”? Not by American standards:

    According to the American Conservative Union’s Center for Legislative Accountability, Murkowski has a lifetime conservative score of 56.72.[56] The liberal Americans for Democratic Action gave her a score of 10% in 2019.[57]

    In 2018, she voted “present” on the confirmation of Justice Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court of the United States as a favor to Senator Steve Daines, who was unable to attend the vote because his daughter’s wedding took place that day.[58] In 2020, she voted against procedural motions to accelerate Amy Coney Barrett’s confirmation to that court, though she later voted to confirm Barrett.[59] On April 7, 2022, she voted to confirm Ketanji Brown Jackson to the Supreme Court, with only two other Republicans joining her: Mitt Romney and Susan Collins.[60]

    In a March 2019 op-ed for The Washington Post, Murkowski and Joe Manchin wrote that climate change debate in Congress was depicted as “an issue with just two sides—those who support drastic, unattainable measures to reduce greenhouse-gas emissions, and those who want to do nothing” and affirmed their support for “adopting reasonable policies that maintain that edge, build on and accelerate current efforts, and ensure a robust innovation ecosystem.”[61]

    During the first impeachment trial of Donald Trump, Murkowski called Trump’s actions “shameful and wrong, but said “she cannot vote to convict” Trump and that his personal interests did not take precedence over those of the nation. She joined almost all Senate Republicans in voting to acquit Trump on both articles.

    On social issues, I’d call a senator who votes to confirm both Amy Coney Barrett and Ketanji Brown Jackson a moderate, again by American standards.

    (Her personal life suggests she has traditional values. She’s been married to one man, Verne Martell, since 1987. They have two grown sons. No doubt all of you will want to send them congratulations on their anniversary, on August 22nd.)

    Jim Miller (4a2c1e)

  271. If, by some chance you have missed it, here’s the famous Ramirez “RINO”.

    Jim Miller (4a2c1e)

  272. The liberal Americans for Democratic Action gave her a score of 10% in 2019.[57]

    Interesting rake for you to step on, Jim.

    Kamala received a 90% from that same super liberal organization. You would rather have Kamala as president even though your defense true conservatives utilizes a much lower stringent.

    I know, I know… it isn’t your fault that you live in a state that doesn’t care about your vote.

    BuDuh (4214e4)

  273. RINO: “Not of the body“

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/9/2024 @ 10:19 am

    TrumpWorld: “Resistance is futile.”

    Rip Murdock (f17b34)

  274. The Biden administration is asking Ukraine what is their objective in making an incursion into Russia.

    A, Make Russia a little bit interested in ending the warm maybe.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  275. Back in 2016 French provided comic relief when Bill Kristol suggested him as a presidential candidate for never Trumpers. I live near Columbia, TN and asked anyone if they knew David French, who called Columbia his home at the time. Actually French lived in a rural area outside Columbia, not in the city.

    Nobody I talked to had ever heard of David French. Soon French reluctantly decided against running for president. A few years later French left Maury County to live in a Rich People’s neighborhood in Franklin, TN. The people in French’s former area were sick of his political columns by his own account.

    French claims to be a “conservative, while practically every column he writes is an attack on people on the right. French never, but never makes any serious criticism of the left. French declares there is too much “polarization,” and personal attacks. French, himself, attacks somebody virtually every day.

    French says he is a “Reaganite.” Ronald Reagan ran a populist campaign for Governor of California in 1966 and also when he challenged Gerald Ford for the GOP nomination in 1976. Does anybody think, if French had been around then he would have backed Reagan’s 1966 and 1976 campaigns? Or would French (born in 1969) have supported Reagan when he won in 1980 when he supports every facet of the current liberal establishment?

    Again, when French enthusiastically backs Kamala Harris, why would you consider him a “Reaganite?”

    By the way, I personally detest Trump.

    DN (cd493a)

  276. Reagan would be against anyone who staged a coup attempt.

    Also, French doesn’t support every facet of the current liberal establishment.

    norcal (2b06e0)

  277. There was no “coup attempt.” On January 20, 2021 Trump meekly left the White House.

    And just what does French not support of the “current liberal establishment?” Or what facet of garden variety conservative opposition does French support? Name a conservative article French has written with a serious criticism of the Biden administration.

    French is for open borders, endless wars, anti-white indoctrination for school children. He would be at home working in the Harris campaign. In fact, that’s what he is currently doing in his perch as a NY Times columnist.

    DN (cd493a)

  278. Lost me at “there was no ‘coup attempt'”.

    Since the post started with French and why Trump must be defeated, my take is that he’s categorically unfit, at all levels.
    He’s geriatrically unfit, obviously in mental decline.
    He’s said nothing new for years, just cycling the same old sh-t, on the same old tired mental track. In the few times he actually talked about policy, he’s offered nothing new, rejecting the new Project 2025.
    He’s made glaring mental mix-ups, such as confusing Nikki with Nancy.

    He’s temperamentally unfit, prone to dictators who stroke his tender ego, and insulting to allies who don’t festoon him with compliments.
    He’s unexplainably unable to condemn a mass terrorist like Putin for his thousands of terrorist attacks.
    He has no impulse control, and his latest press conference is only the latest example, as Dana well documented.
    He obsesses over crowd size, going as far as lying that there were more attendees on J6 (estimated at 20k by his own Secret Service) than MLK Jr.’s “I Have A Dream” speech, which was attended by an order of magnitude more.
    He’s a bully with a cruel streak.
    He demands absolute loyalty while offering none in return. It’s loyalty to him over loyalty to God and country.

    He’s not just mentally unfit, he’s mentally mentally deranged, mentally unhinged, mentally ill, ticking all the boxes for malignant narcissism.

    • Being extremely arrogant and self-centered
    • Disregarding the feelings and needs of other people
    • Manipulating, using, or exploiting others for personal gain or pleasure
    • Having an extreme need for power
    • Acts of revenge against those who criticize them
    • Fantasizing about ways to obtain more power or dominance over others
    • Lacking conscience, regret, or remorse for their actions
    • Being cruel and taking pleasure in the pain of others
    • High levels of aggression towards other people
    • Paranoia or mistrust of others

    He frequently says crazy batsh-t, like his sharks-batteries story.

    He’s cognitively unfit, unable process information that doesn’t align with his views.
    He doesn’t read.
    He offers kiddie-pool depth to any of his policy prescriptions. On energy, for example, he has nothing to say beyond “drill, baby, drill”. On trade, for example, he has nothing to say beyond “tariffs, baby, tariffs”.
    He’s wildly ignorant, especially for an Ivy League grad. For example, his boasting about the Presidential Records Act.

    He’s morally unfit, at all levels.
    He lies all the time (see his Willie Brown tall tale as the most recent example).
    He’s still telling his Big Lie about a “rigged” election.
    He’s a fraud, demonstrated in court multiple times over, at his university, his foundation, at his organization, and personally.
    He’s an un-Christian self-proclaimed Christian who knows nothing about the Bible. “Two Corinthians” indeed says it all.
    He’s a convicted felon, and is likely to get convicted for additional felonies if the three other cases stay on track.
    He cheated on all three of his wives, schtupping a Playboy model and adult film actress during his third marriage.

    He’s presidentially unfit, betraying the Constitution by his coup attempt, trying to bully his VP into violating the 12th Amendment with his Fake Elector scheme and allowing his cultists to riot in the Capitol for 3-plus hours before telling them shut it down.
    He said out loud that he would be a “Dictator For A Day”; last I checked, there is no codicil for this in the Constitution.
    He called for “termination” of the Constitution.
    Out of his 44 cabinet appointees (including Pence), 40 won’t vote for him, which should be alarming to anyone without Right-Wing Partisan Brain.

    Bottom line, Trump must lose, for first-order reasons.
    It’s just too bad there isn’t a worthy moderate opponent. Biden deserved to lose (and thankfully withdrew) and Kamala didn’t deserve to be nominated, but became nominated because Biden obstinately decided to run for reelection, thus denying Democrats the chance to nominate their best candidate.

    The best scenario, in my opinion, is that (1) Trumpism dies with a Trump loss, which has been a cancer on conservatism, and (2) that all six right-leaning the Republican Supreme Court Justices stay alive, and (3) at the very least, the Republicans regain a Senate majority, giving us the ability to obstruct and strike down Kamala’s more liberal appointments and shut down her more liberal legislative proposals.

    Paul Montagu (f7ef6d)

  279. Trumpism dies with a Trump loss, which has been a cancer on conservatism…….

    That’s not going to happen when you have young Trumpians to take up the mantle like Vance, Stefanik, Sanders, DeSantis, etc.

    Rip Murdock (fec955)

  280. The best scenario, in my opinion, is that (1) Trumpism dies with a Trump loss, which has been a cancer on conservatism, and (2) that all six right-leaning the Republican Supreme Court Justices stay alive, and (3) at the very least, the Republicans regain a Senate majority, giving us the ability to obstruct and strike down Kamala’s more liberal appointments and shut down her more liberal legislative proposals.

    More likely: Trump is again the nominee in 2028, the Supreme Court is 9-6 leftist constitution deniers, guns are outlawed and all 47 million illegals are granted citizenship.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  281. More likely: Trump is again the nominee in 2028, the Supreme Court is 9-6 leftist constitution deniers, guns are outlawed and all 47 million illegals are granted citizenship.

    Somehow, deciding to vote for Trump turns people delusional. I can’t explain it.

    Paul Montagu (f7ef6d)

  282. More likely: Trump is again the nominee in 2028, the Supreme Court is 9-6 leftist constitution deniers, guns are outlawed and all 47 million illegals are granted citizenship.

    So a universe similar to our own, but just a bit different.

    To be pro-Trump, you have the believe the Marvel Multiverse is the gospel.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  283. More likely: Trump is again the nominee in 2028, the Supreme Court is 9-6 leftist constitution deniers, guns are outlawed and all 47 million illegals are granted citizenship.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/10/2024 @ 11:02 am

    You need to lay off the loco weed.

    Rip Murdock (fec955)

  284. Paul Montagu (f7ef6d) — 8/10/2024 @ 10:55 am

    Well-stated, Paul.

    DN doesn’t seem to frequent the blog much, so he/she may be unaware that I actually voted for Trump in 2016.

    norcal (692b07)

  285. Somehow, deciding to vote for Trump turns people delusional. I can’t explain it.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  286. Somehow, deciding to vote for Trump turns people delusional. I can’t explain it.

    I can. Think of a dog who starts barking and all the other dogs in the neighborhood join in.

    That’s Trump. That’s his talent. He bays, and some bay along and some bay against, and it’s all meaningless noise. And it works for him.

    nk (cc1db9)

  287. Hell hath no fury like the newly converted.

    Rip Murdock (fec955)

  288. Kevin, didn’t you once say that Trump should be locked up because of J6? How do you go from that to voting for him?

    norcal (2eb2ba)

  289. @292 Yeah, and several people here said they would draw the line at Kamala but are now voting for her.

    lloyd (ab2870)

  290. BTW, in my “unfit” comment , I didn’t say “most likely scenario”, I said “best scenario”, as in, it’s my preferred scenario.

    If Trump loses, why wouldn’t Trumpism go down as well. Trump and his so-called ideology has been losing since 2018, including two presidential elections, with the one bright spot being the House in 2022, just barely. With the cult personality out of the picture, his cultists aren’t going to glom onto DeSantis or Vivek, because they’re not Trump. The cult dies with the cult leader, IMO.

    Paul Montagu (4a28d4)

  291. Kevin, didn’t you once say that Trump should be locked up because of J6? How do you go from that to voting for him?

    I said that he should be hanged on the Mall for treason. But that was before the voters made him the only alternative to the catastrophic candidacy of Harris and Walz, which has shifted so far left from Joe Biden as to belong in a different party.

    I do not have a range of options. I get to choose between a post-liberal left-wing statist and a post-liberal right-wing statist. Given that choice, I’ll go with my SOB rather than theirs.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  292. Note that if Trump HAD been hanged on the Mall for treason (or, more reasonably, convicted by the Senate in 2021), he would not be a candidate today.

    But the Senate failed. Biden’s administration failed. The courts failed. The Supreme Court failed. The GOP voters failed. And, as the sign says, YOU ARE HERE.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  293. So, Harris is shutting down the “Lock Him Up” chants at her rallies. NBC posts an interesting take on that, suggesting that she doesn’t want cheerleading at her rallies to become an issue in the J6 cases.

    So, Trump made this a staple in 2016, about locking Hillary up, but then he did nothing about it once elected. This says that, should Harris be elected, the full weight of the US government will come down on Donald Trump. Maybe it should, but this is premeditation and her own form of “retribution.” It won’t be up the the AG at all.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  294. I’ve been thinking about the results I would like to see this November, and come to the following conclusions as to what I want:
    1. The Loser loses.
    2. The Republicans lose control of the House. (If possible including defeats of some disgraces, for example, Matt Gaetz.) The “generic vote” currently gives the Democrats a tiny lead, but they may be helped by Trumpista efforts to sabotage any Republican who has ever, so much as given the Loser a dirty look.
    3. The Republicans take back control of the Senate. (Haven’t looked at the individual races, so I don’t know how likely that outcome is.)

    Jim Miller (a58461)

  295. So, Trump made this a staple in 2016, about locking Hillary up, but then he did nothing about it once elected.

    Trump has denied ever saying that, but of course that is a lie. I do consider it a missed opportunity.

    Rip Murdock (fec955)

  296. This says that, should Harris be elected, the full weight of the US government will come down on Donald Trump. Maybe it should, but this is premeditation and her own form of “retribution.” It won’t be up the the AG at all.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/10/2024 @ 4:03 pm

    I think this is a hyperbolic response to the story. Unless they are dismissed, Trump will still face the January 6th indictment; Harris is just trying to not provide his defense with any claims that her campaign is interfering with Trump’s due process rights in the current federal case. There is no suggestion of a new prosecution by a Harris Administration.

    Any comments or signs of approval she makes could further delay or complicate the pending federal criminal charges Trump is facing. That includes the Jan. 6 and 2020 election interference case brought by special counsel Jack Smith.
    …………
    If Harris wins the election in November, Trump’s Jan. 6 case — though weakened by the Supreme Court — will continue to move toward trial. ………..(A)ny comments Harris makes related to the trial could be fodder for the former president’s lawyers to argue in court that her comments interfered with Trump’s due process rights. That includes any suggestion that locking up Trump would be an explicit goal……….

    Do you think that Trump’s election interference indictment should be dismissed?

    Rip Murdock (fec955)

  297. Assuming that Jack Smith’s appointment is upheld, I expect him (or someone else) to continue the Trump prosecutions.

    Rip Murdock (fec955)

  298. But the Senate failed. Biden’s administration failed. The courts failed. The Supreme Court failed. The GOP voters failed. And, as the sign says, YOU ARE HERE.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/10/2024 @ 3:50 pm

    That’s a lot of disappointment.

    Rip Murdock (fec955)

  299. So, Trump made this a staple in 2016, about locking Hillary up, but then he did nothing about it once elected.

    And as recently as 2020. He also failed to keep his promise to investigate HRC. Again, another missed opportunity.

    Rip Murdock (fec955)

  300. That’s a lot of disappointment.

    Indeed, but it is the path I trod. What bothers me is not that some continue to support notTrump, but that they have not spent a second thinking on how far the Democrats have moved Left. They keep saying that Harris is “normal” but I see someone as illiberal as Trump with a history of thuggish behavior as CA’s AG. Being sanguine about handing her power seems ill-advised.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  301. Being sanguine about handing her power seems ill-advised.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/10/2024 @ 5:57 pm

    Exaggerating the consequences doesn’t help your argument.

    Rip Murdock (fec955)

  302. Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/10/2024 @ 5:57 pm

    For example, see post 300.

    Rip Murdock (fec955)

  303. Exaggerating the consequences doesn’t help your argument.

    Neither does minimizing them as you do.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  304. Harris is not a continuation of Biden, but a clean break. That she intends to govern as the hard left can be seen with her choice of Walz — probably her only unforced choice so far.

    The wishcasting about Congress remaining in GOP hands is just wistling past the graveyard. If Harris wins the WH, the Dems will win both houses, if only 50-50 + 1 in the Senate.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  305. I’m still waiting for someone to name an article by French that criticizes the left.

    DN (cd493a)

  306. To name the most recent two…

    “Biden Has An Inner Circle Problem. He’s Not the Only One” by David French, 7/11/2024

    “Can Democratic Leaders Actually Lead”, by David French, 7/5/2024

    His latest fleshes out what he wrote in his tweet.

    Since the day Donald Trump came down that escalator in 2015, the MAGA movement has been engaged in a long-running, slow-rolling ideological and characterological transformation of the Republican Party. At each step, it has pushed Republicans further and further away from Reaganite conservatism. It has divorced Republican voters from any major consideration of character in leadership and all the while it has labeled people who resisted the change as “traitors.”

    What allegiance do you owe a party, a movement or a politician when it or they fundamentally change their ideology and ethos?

    Let’s take an assertion that should be uncontroversial, especially to a party that often envisions itself as a home for people of faith: Lying is wrong. I’m not naïve; I know that politicians have had poor reputations for honesty since Athens. But I have never seen a human being lie with the intensity and sheer volume of Donald Trump.

    Even worse, Trump’s lies are contagious. The legal results speak for themselves. A cascade of successful defamation lawsuits demonstrate the severity and pervasiveness of Republican dishonesty. Fox paid an enormous settlement related to its hosts’ relentless falsehoods during Trump’s effort to steal the election. Rudy Giuliani owes two Georgia election workers $148 million for his gross lies about their conduct while counting votes. Salem Media Group apologized to a Georgia voter who was falsely accused of voter fraud and halted distribution of Dinesh D’Souza’s fantastical “documentary” of election fraud, “2,000 Mules.”

    And that’s hardly an exhaustive list. Several additional defamation cases are pending against MAGA networks and MAGA personalities.

    Let’s take another assertion that should be relatively uncontroversial: Political violence and threats of violence have no place in the American democratic process. Yet threats and intimidation follow the MAGA movement like night follows day. One of the saddest stories of our time is the way in which even local election officials and local school board members fear for their safety. The level of threat against public officials has escalated in the MAGA era, MAGA Republicans often wield threats as a weapon against Republican dissenters, and every American should remember Jan. 6, when a mob of insurrectionists ransacked the Capitol.

    I know that threats and violence aren’t exclusive to the right. We all watched in horror as a man tried to assassinate Trump; another man threatened Brett Kavanaugh’s life; and no one should forget the horrific congressional shooting, when an angry liberal man attempted a mass murder of Republican members of Congress on a baseball field.

    But only one party has nominated a man who was indicted for his role in the criminal scheme to steal an American election, a scheme that culminated in a violent political riot. Only one party nominated a man who began the first rally of his 2024 campaign with a song by violent insurrectionists. He played “Justice for All,” a bastardized version of the national anthem by a group called the J6 Prison Choir. The song features the “Star-Spangled Banner” interspersed with excerpts of Trump reading the Pledge of Allegiance.

    It’s not just Trump’s lies that are contagious, but his cruelty as well, and that cruelty is embedding itself deeply within one of Trump’s most loyal constituencies, conservative evangelicals. It is difficult to overstate the viciousness and intolerance of MAGA Christians against their political foes. There are many churches and Christian leaders who are now more culturally Trumpian than culturally Christian. Trump is changing the church.

    And to what end?

    It is fascinating to me that there are voices online who still claim that a person can’t be Christian and vote for Democrats, when the Trump campaign watered down the Republican platform on abortion to such an extent that it’s functionally pro-choice. Earlier generations of the pro-life movement would not have tolerated such a retreat. They would have made it clear that there were some principles Republicans simply can’t abandon without becoming a fundamentally different party.

    It becomes even stranger to claim that Christians can’t vote for Democrats when the prime-time lineup at the Republican convention featured an OnlyFans star, a man who publicly slapped his wife, a man who pleaded no contest to an assault charge, and another man who had sex with his friend’s wife while the friend watched — and that’s not even including any reference to Trump himself.

    Even if you want to focus on abortion as the single issue that decides your vote, the picture for abortion opponents is grim. Trump should get credit for nominating justices who helped overturn Roe (though the real credit for the decision goes to the justices themselves, including the George W. Bush appointee Samuel Alito, who actually wrote the majority opinion).

    But when we’re dealing with a complex social phenomenon, political and legal issues are rarely simple. For the first time in decades, abortion rates and ratios increased under Trump. In addition, the best available evidence indicates that abortion rates are up since the Dobbs decision.

    Barack Obama was an unabashedly pro-choice politician, yet there were 338,270 fewer abortions in 2016 than there were in 2008, George W. Bush’s last year in office. Though Trump nominated anti-abortion justices and enacted a number of anti-abortion policies, there were 56,080 more abortions the last year of his term than there were in the last year of Obama’s presidency.

    Even worse, after Dobbs the pro-life position is in a state of political collapse. It hasn’t won a single red-state referendum, and it might even lose again in Florida, a state that’s increasingly red yet also looks to have a possible pro-choice supermajority. According to a recent poll, 69 percent of Floridians support the pro-choice abortion referendum, a margin well above the 60 percent threshold required for passage.

    If the ultimate goal of the pro-life movement is to reduce the number of abortions, not just to change legal precedent, then these numbers and these electoral outcomes are deeply alarming. If present trends continue, then abortion opponents will have won an important legal battle, but they’ll ultimately lose the more important cultural and political cause.
    […]
    At the same time, we should make the argument — firmly but respectfully — that this is no ordinary race and that the old political categories no longer apply.

    For example, how many Republicans would have predicted that voting for a Democrat would be the best way to confront violent Russian aggression and that the Republican would probably yield to a Russian advance? In many ways, the most concretely conservative action I can take in this election is to vote for the candidate who will stand against Vladimir Putin. By voting for pro-life politicians down ballot, I can help prevent federal liberalization of abortion law. But if a president decides to abandon Ukraine and cripple NATO, there is little anyone can do.

    While there are voters who are experiencing a degree of Trump nostalgia, remembering American life pre-Covid as a time of full employment and low inflation, there is a different and darker story to tell about Trump’s first term. Our social fabric frayed. It’s not just that abortions increased: The murder rate skyrocketed; drug overdose deaths hit new highs; marriage rates fell; and birthrates continued their long decline. Americans ended his term more divided than when it began.

    I’m often asked by Trump voters if I’m “still conservative,” and I respond that I can’t vote for Trump precisely because I am conservative. I loathe sex abuse, pornography and adultery. Trump has brought those vices into the mainstream of the Republican Party. I want to cultivate a culture that values human life from conception through natural death. Yet America became more brutal and violent during Trump’s term. I want to defend liberal democracy from authoritarian aggression, yet Trump would abandon our allies and risk our most precious alliances.

    The only real hope for restoring a conservatism that values integrity, demonstrates real compassion and defends our foundational constitutional principles isn’t to try to make the best of Trump, a man who values only himself. If he wins again, it will validate his cruelty and his ideological transformation of the Republican Party. If Harris wins, the West will still stand against Vladimir Putin, and conservative Americans will have a chance to build something decent from the ruins of a party that was once a force for genuine good in American life.

    Paul Montagu (f7ef6d)

  307. The wishcasting about Congress remaining in GOP hands is just wistling past the graveyard. If Harris wins the WH, the Dems will win both houses, if only 50-50 + 1 in the Senate.

    “Wishcasting” implies a wholly unrealistic scenario, which is why your comment is rubbish. Right now, the House prospects are 209-201, so only 9 toss-ups have to go to the GOP to keep their majority. The Senate is 50-48 GOP, which is better than the current 49-51.

    Paul Montagu (f7ef6d)

  308. Exaggerating the consequences doesn’t help your argument.

    Neither does minimizing them as you do.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 8/10/2024 @ 11:47 pm

    Your exaggerations of an impending socialist disaster could encourage someone to take direct and drastic action to prevent it from happening.

    Rip Murdock (fec955)

  309. #310 the two weak examples prove my point. French makes vituperative assaults on conservatives almost every day. And just what, pray tell, noble character traits do Biden and Harris posses? Does Harris “loathe “sex abuse, pornography, and adultery?” The latter in particular.

    I detest Trump. I voted against him in the GOP Primary. I’ll likely not vote for either candidate this fall, even though Harris is a thousand times worse.

    And French was always attacking rank and file conservatives in his NRO columns even before Trump announced in 2015.

    DN (cd493a)

  310. @313 populists democrats or trumpsters have a lot in common ( that why I don’t hate trump ) Both have little in common with traditional conservatives like free trade and medicare.

    asset (9d0671)


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