Possible Running Mates For Kamala Harris
[guest post by Dana]
Running mate considerations:
The Harris campaign has requested vetting materials from the following potential vice presidential nominee picks:
NC Gov. Roy Cooper
PA Gov. Josh Shapiro
AZ Sen. Mark Kelly
MI Gov. Gretchen Whitmer
MN Gov. Tim Walz
(Although his name has been floated as a possible running mate and he came out of the gate criticizing JD Vance and his view of Appalachians, Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear is not on the list. Kentucky is not a swing state.)
Note: Pennsylvania, Michigan, Arizona and North Carolina are among the critical battleground states that Harris may need to win the Electoral College in November.
Whitmer said that she’s not going anywhere:
“I’m not planning to go anywhere,” Whitmer said. “I’m not leaving Michigan. I’m proud to be the governor of Michigan. I have been consistent. I know everyone is always suspicious and asking this question over and over again – I know you’re doing your job – I’m not going anywhere.”
The DNC has set August 7 as the deadline to have a running mate selected:
“In order to be on the ballot in all 50 states, we have to have all of this wrapped up by August 7. So, if the nominee so chooses…we will likely have our VP nominee also by August 7,” Harrison said.
—Dana
Hello.
Dana (c6be55) — 7/23/2024 @ 8:12 amI’m gonna repeat my rundown from the other thread, with a couple modifications…
I already said that I favor Kelly, for one being in a battleground, for being wed to Gabby Giffords, and for his unique experiences.
Kelly being a bald white guy could be a plus or minus, but it would balance the ticket, be more representative to a broader cross-section.
I like Shapiro, and he’s also in a battleground state, but he’s only a 1-term governor. His Jewishness shouldn’t be an issue but could be for the left-wing base.
I like Beshear better, and he should be on the list, because he has more executive experience and he’s battleground state adjacent, being a two-term governor in a deep red state, which is an accomplishment.
Whitmer is possible because she’s in a battleground, but there’s already enough estrogen on the ticket. Same reason for Klobuchar, but she’s just out of the woods, recovering from cancer.
I like Cory Booker, although not on the list, but there’s already enough melanin on the ticket. Wes Moore is just a first-term governor, so he’s special mention at best, IMO.
I don’t like Newsom, and I’m glad he’s not there. Too slick, and the Dems don’t need another Californian.
I didn’t even think about Waltz. Other than a battleground state governor, I have no idea what he has to offer.
I only saw Rory Cooper for the first time yesterday, and he was actually quite impressive, and from a southern state. Liberals like him, and that’s about all I know.
Paul Montagu (d7860c) — 7/23/2024 @ 8:39 amWhy would being married to Gabby Giffords (notoriously opposed to the personal right to bear arms) be considered qualifying? None of the qualities listed qualifies Kelly for VP.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/23/2024 @ 8:46 amKelly is the celebrity VP candidate.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/23/2024 @ 8:47 amI know this is super anecdotal but my college aged son just got married.
At the wedding reception, there was about 60-80 of their friends there enjoying their time and we were all dancing. (and some older fogeys… like me)
Some how the upcoming election came up in between songs and they were talking about how Biden was “the zombie” and how “unremarkable” (their words) Harris seems to be.
My brother asked “who’s all voting for Biden/Harris?”… and, I have to say, I didn’t hear anyone chime in (I can’t believe that there wasn’t any Biden/Harris voters, it’s just that they must have been shy). Then he asked “who’s all voting for Trump?”… it wasn’t unanimous, but the weird thing was that they were much more vocal in voting for Trump, than commenting on voting for Biden/Harris.
I talked to my son (the groom) last weekend about this and he reiterated that his generation are struggling to “make it” and place much of that blame on Biden/Harris. I counselled him that everyone his age “struggles” in high school and that it’s normal. But, he pushed back stating that whether rightly or wrong, the perception his generation is getting is the raw deal.
I think it’s really distills how important the economy is electorally…even though, Presidents really don’t have that much impact, that position gets all the blame when things goes badly.
“The economy, stupid” -James Carville
Later that night I asked him and his frat friends what they think of Trump’s J6 issues or legal problems? They didn’t know a whole lot about the details, like we do here on this forum, and initially they said they weren’t sure what to think. So, I clarified with this question: Do you think Trump J6/legal issues are real or do you think Trump’s “lawfare” claims are working. The response I got was that the lawfare claims are definitely making rounds among them and their social media bubble.
My sense is that, at least anecdotally, the J6/legal issues isn’t the driving principle for young voters, and that it’s the horrible economic conditions that young people are navigating that may be driving the “swing” from Biden/Harris to Trump.
I’m sure we’ll see some polls soon broken by age, so will see if thats any indication of a larger “movement”, than just a small slice of my own bubble.
whembly (477db6) — 7/23/2024 @ 8:51 am> Why would being married to Gabby Giffords (notoriously opposed to the personal right to bear arms) be considered qualifying?
Because Giffords was the victim of a shooting, which means that his presence on the ticket helps nullify some of the *political* impact of the attempt to kill Trump.
aphrael (250ac0) — 7/23/2024 @ 8:51 amThat’s a dumb reason to select someone as VP-why not just name Giffords herself?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/23/2024 @ 8:55 amI think she’ll surprise everyone and pick Joe Biden.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/23/2024 @ 8:56 amOr maybe Oprah
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/23/2024 @ 8:57 amThat reasoning would be pretty obtuse to the general public. If you need to explain that to voters, you have already lost the argument.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/23/2024 @ 8:57 amthe perception his generation is getting is the raw deal.
That IS the perception, but the real question is who will the Democrats pin the blame on? My guess is “those rich people who never pay any taxes.”
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/23/2024 @ 8:59 amCheatle resigns
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/23/2024 @ 9:32 amHe’s a natural born American over the age of 35, so he’s qualified, more qualified than the fraud running as GOP nominee.
Paul Montagu (d4d407) — 7/23/2024 @ 10:58 amIf you’re only really looking at battlegrounds then Roy Cooper or Mark Kelly, Shapiro would be OK but why after 2 years as governor? I still think Beshear is farther up the list. Realistically if you want to pull in a swing state, then Cooper then Shapiro. They’d want to keep Kelly in the Senate.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 7/23/2024 @ 11:16 amI think Cooper could put his state in play.
But, if they really want to secure Michigan, Whitmer has to be the play.
Just not sure if she’s truly interested.
whembly (477db6) — 7/23/2024 @ 11:24 amPost GOP convention, but before the Biden stepdown…
https://www.harrisx.com/posts/harrisx-forbes-poll-trump-gains-momentum-post-republican-convention-doubles-lead-against-biden-and-harris
This is sorta of the new baseline until we get more with Harris/VP ticket.
I’d expect Harris to get a sizable bump for being coronated and the DNC convention, but who knows what it’d look like once the election is in full swing.
whembly (477db6) — 7/23/2024 @ 11:28 amWhembly, good rule of thumb is to look at the polls 2 weeks after a major event. At least per the 538 ppl
Time123 (e7ec12) — 7/23/2024 @ 12:00 pmKelly will get replaced by a Dem appointee who will serve until just after the 2026 election. Removing him from the Senate isn’t a problem to the short-term Senate math.
aphrael (078a66) — 7/23/2024 @ 12:05 pm“Cheatle resigns”
So, she’s available. I mean, unless you can find an absolute incompetent, everyone on the list is going to upstage Kamala.
lloyd (47e42e) — 7/23/2024 @ 12:19 pmSecret Service Director Resigns In Disgrace For Failing To Assassinate Trump
lloyd (47e42e) — 7/23/2024 @ 12:23 pmWell, there’s Donald Trump, he’s absolutely incompetent, and I guess that’s why the money avalanche happened as soon as the old man dropped out.
If she doesn’t get one of the battleground govs, I think Beshear is above Kelly. I have only watched the Kelly youtube videos and he has great stories, but that’s about it.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 7/23/2024 @ 12:28 pmShe’s made it perfectly clear she’s not interested with a Shermanesque statement:
Rip Murdock (3e5426) — 7/23/2024 @ 12:46 pm@17
Yup… I’d wait till last week of Aug or early Sept for the polls to start clarifying.
Right now, I doubt its indicative of anything yet.
whembly (477db6) — 7/23/2024 @ 12:48 pm@22
Yup, makes sense.
She wants to run for the top of the ticket, and risks that if she loses with Kamala as VP.
whembly (477db6) — 7/23/2024 @ 12:49 pmDo you have a quote from her that she wants to be President?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/23/2024 @ 1:46 pmOr any other evidence? Just because the news media has anointed her as a possible candidate doesn’t mean that is true. She’s already been the target of a criminal plot, I doubt she wants to set herself up again.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/23/2024 @ 1:48 pm@25 @26
That’s how it usually works.
No one declares, until they *do* declare (ie, exploratory commission for presidency).
whembly (477db6) — 7/23/2024 @ 2:05 pmNPR/PBS News/Marist National Poll
More:
Favorable/Unfavorable/Unsure (Registered Voters)
Harris
All voters 44/46/10
Democrats 78/13/9
Republicans 10/84/6
Independents 34/47/19
Trump
All voters 45/50/5
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/23/2024 @ 2:06 pmRepublicans 86/10/4
Democrats 16/81/3
Independents 34/55/11
Since Whitmer did neither during the primary campaign, I gather she has no interest in being President.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/23/2024 @ 2:08 pmPass the 🍿
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/black-lives-matter-demands-dnc-host-virtual-primary/ar-BB1qtONB?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=4a9e5cafaebe4bf88ce999f46f12046f&ei=18
Oh… snap!
whembly (477db6) — 7/23/2024 @ 2:09 pmWhitmer also told the Detroit News on Monday that she wasn’t interested in being vice president. “I am not leaving Michigan. I am proud to be the governor of Michigan,” she said.
She can be the VP candidate and still never leave her Governor job.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/23/2024 @ 2:10 pmLOL! Their “demands” will be roadkill on the way to Harris’s nomination.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/23/2024 @ 2:10 pmSo, BLM is not a Harris fan? That’s not good for Harris.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/23/2024 @ 2:12 pmNo one is going to make waves here. This is shoulder-to-shoulder time as they try to get out of this catastrophe. Not sure they can, but no Democrat wants to be pointed at when it comes to pointing fingers.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/23/2024 @ 2:14 pmAny governor who signs on as VP had damn well better carry his state.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/23/2024 @ 2:16 pmI’m sure she knows that, but based on her public statements, she has said nothing that leaves that door open. I also don’t see a ticket with two women on it either. The US can’t even elect one woman as its leader, while a number of other countries have done so (mostly parliamentary democracies).
Kamala Harris VP fantasy camp.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/23/2024 @ 2:18 pmTheir problem is that there are so many “swing states” that they are behind in. They MUST win VA, NH, WI, PA, NV, MN and MI. Not sure how one VP is going to do that. Nor are they going to get much with “Oh, that Trump!”
They might have to throw Biden under the bus and try different policy directions. Which is hard because the different directions Harris favors are less popular with the center.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/23/2024 @ 2:20 pmSo, BLM is not a Harris fan? That’s not good for Harris.
Just angling for a little payola.
nk (eb70c5) — 7/23/2024 @ 2:24 pmHas GLAAD chimed in yet?
nk (eb70c5) — 7/23/2024 @ 2:24 pmHarris leads Trump 44% to 42% in US presidential race, Reuters/Ipsos poll finds
New! Shiny!
This is expected and means nothing. Then again, the press is going to make her sound like the second coming of Camelot, and Trump is going to be more Trumpish in response.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/23/2024 @ 2:25 pmWho? 😉
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/23/2024 @ 2:25 pmWhembly, thank you for the good news. Been a lot of negativity in the news lately. BLM has a few good points from time to time, but their dissatisfaction here is nice.
Time123 (e7ec12) — 7/23/2024 @ 2:26 pmPolls are news.
Time123 (e7ec12) — 7/23/2024 @ 2:27 pmNews gets reported.
Even if it’s meaningless.
Who? 😉
I imagine they could convince “some of the people” that Trump was in charge up to now.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/23/2024 @ 2:27 pmWhitmer denies reports that the Harris campaign is vetting her.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/23/2024 @ 2:28 pmhttps://www.foxnews.com/politics/former-trump-rival-nikki-haley-demands-haley-voters-harris-cease-desist
Is this convincing those Haley voters?
whembly (477db6) — 7/23/2024 @ 2:32 pm“I support Donald Trump because
he understands we need to make America strong, safe, and prosperoussooner or later he will notice that I am younger than Melania and I won’t give him any trouble with the prenup.”Fixed that for you, Nikki.
nk (28e37b) — 7/23/2024 @ 2:39 pmNo. Most of Haley’s Republican (and Republican-leaning independent) voters will end up voting for Trump. Only about half of Haley’s voters identified themselves as Republicans (compared to 73% of Trump’s supporters during the primary campaign), with rest being Democrats (11%) and independents (41%). Since Haley only polled well against Trump in states with open primaries, it exaggerated Haley’s support among the electorate. There is also is also evidence that suggests that a majority or plurality of Haley voters voted for Biden in 2020.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/23/2024 @ 2:54 pmYou would think they wouldn’t need to say that:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/23/2024 @ 3:07 pmThey used to say “affirmative action hire” This year everybody seems to have switched to “DEI” I think the phrase abbout affirmative action has fallen out of favor the last few years.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 7/23/2024 @ 3:10 pmIs this convincing those Haley voters?
It may convince them to stop using her name in their appeal. Just wait until “Biden Voters for Trump” surfaces.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/23/2024 @ 3:10 pmThat is a lie.
https://www.wvxu.org/2024-06-03/dewine-signs-biden-ohio-ballot-fix-and-foreign-money-ban-he-asked-for-in-special-session
He gives no clue as to why that should still be true.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 7/23/2024 @ 3:14 pm31. Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/23/2024 @ 2:10 pm
But she would be expected to if the ticket wins.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 7/23/2024 @ 3:19 pmSince Haley only polled well against Trump in states with open primaries,
Except for the closed primaries that she did well (like the Utah Caucus where she got 42%), and the closed primaries she had significant support in after she withdrew. There is some truth to your assertion about cross-over voting, but it is not the blanket statement you present.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/23/2024 @ 3:23 pmI would rather accept what Harris says about Trump than what Rip says about Nikki Haley.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/23/2024 @ 3:24 pm7. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/23/2024 @ 8:55 am
She’s too disabled – not like Press Secretary James Brady was, but more than anyone says of Biden or said about Fetterman before his improvement.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 7/23/2024 @ 3:24 pmThe Harris VP selection boils down to two questions:
John Boddie (dcf99c) — 7/23/2024 @ 3:26 pm1. Has the proposed VP demonstrated the ability to attract independent voters?
2. Where do those independent voters live?
LOL! You saw Nikki Haley as a white knight during the campaign, who turned out to have feet of clay like any other politician. And you’re still looking at her with rose colored glasses. Haley lost every primary that she and Trump went head to head-it doesn’t matter what percentage voted for her, she still lost. Her 42% in Utah was in a caucus that included fewer than 86,000 participants.
I’m still more generous towards her than Dustin.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/23/2024 @ 3:53 pm> BLM is not a Harris fan? That’s not good for Harris.
Harris is a career prosecutor. That makes her unwelcome in a *lot* of left wing circles.
aphrael (873cd6) — 7/23/2024 @ 4:25 pmMark Kelly would be my choice. He’s a combat veteran, he’s studied science up to a masters degree, and he is the son of two police officers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Kelly
(He did have one failed marriage before he met Giffords, but that is not unusual in high-stress military jobs. Tom Wolfe had some instructive things to say about the stress on wives those caused in “The Right Stuff”.)
Jim Miller (7dc886) — 7/23/2024 @ 4:26 pmSo, just turned on CNN and listened to Anderson Cooper play a Kamala Harris speech jam-packed with lies (e.g. “Donald Trump is going to cut Medicare and Social Security and give the money to billionaires”). No editorial comment of fact-check. Then he shows a snippet of a Trump statement about immigration, which he prefaces as “factually challenged” and then rebuts it with the Harris talking points.
This is the shape of things to come.
Then I turned on Fox and it was worse than I expected.
Harris will win.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/23/2024 @ 5:08 pmMark Kelly would be my choice.
Just to make sure Harris rounds up all the guns. I wonder if that would go over better than Trump rounding up all the illegals.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/23/2024 @ 5:10 pmHere’s a thought: Suppose that the first presidential debate had happened in September as per usual, not June. I think that both Trump AND Biden regret that choice.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/23/2024 @ 5:29 pmDoes anyone have a problem with Harris having been complicit in Joe’s fraud? She knew, and did nothing even though she had a constitutional responsibility to do something.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/23/2024 @ 6:22 pmBob Menendez to resign Senate seat after federal bribery conviction
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/23/2024 @ 6:35 pmNone of the anti-Trump partisans have an issue with it. Like Harry Reid said when lying about Romney, “it worked, didn’t it.”
NJRob (eb56c3) — 7/23/2024 @ 7:04 pmMore violence against Trump supporters, that’s just because of one solo crazy dude and has nothing to do with Trumpers being called racists, fascists, cultists, the end of the republic yada yada yada…. you know the drill
ATV driver accused of running over Michigan 80-year-old who was putting up Trump sign found dead
lloyd (930c78) — 7/23/2024 @ 7:23 pmExactly my point Nothing qualifies Mark Kelly for VP. He and hixx so wife are threats to Second Amendment rights.
Rip Murdock (3e5426) — 7/23/2024 @ 7:48 pmRep. Andy Ogles (R-Tennessee) has a solution:
Alternatively, the voters can decide the issue in November.
Rip Murdock (3e5426) — 7/23/2024 @ 7:58 pmAlternatively, the voters can decide the issue in November.
Assuming they can get past the wall-to-wall media puffery.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/23/2024 @ 8:47 pmHe and his wife are threats to Second Amendment rights.
Which is why he won’t be the pick — it would make the issue hard for Harris to evade. OR deny.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/23/2024 @ 8:48 pm@52 the “fix” isn’t law until September, and contains a number of negative items from a Democratic Party perspective that makes meeting the original date worthwhile.
SamG (4e6c22) — 7/23/2024 @ 8:50 pmHarris VP betting odds
Kelly 40.6% ⬇️ .6%
Shapiro 20.1 ⬇️ 6.2
Cooper 17.1 ⬆️ 1.4
Beshear 11.8. ⬆️ 5.1
Buttigieg 3.8 ⬆️ .3
Rip Murdock (3e5426) — 7/23/2024 @ 8:51 pmlloyd (930c78) — 7/23/2024 @ 7:23 pm
A tragedy all around. Luckily no heated rhetoric was involved.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/23/2024 @ 8:51 pmI’m sure the airwaves will be saturated with commercials like this.
Rip Murdock (3e5426) — 7/23/2024 @ 8:55 pmIt will be Shapiro. She absolutely much have PA. Of course she also needs VA, MI and WI which they are also losing. Otherwise they have to start looking in GA, NV, AZ or NC, where they are losing more. RCP has her needing 67 electoral votes to narrowly win.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/23/2024 @ 8:59 pmI’m sure the airwaves will be saturated with commercials like this.
Who needs commercials when you have the anchors?
(I’m assuming people who watch Fox have made up their minds)
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/23/2024 @ 9:00 pmWho needs commercials when you have the anchors?
Oh, those commercials. Endlessly fact-checked from the DNC fax machine.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/23/2024 @ 9:02 pmAs a Dem voted I’m relieved to have a candidate who can string together a sentence and walk across a room. I think now that we have that, Trump’s in trouble. What a wild month it has been.
JRH (a3ac9a) — 7/23/2024 @ 9:06 pmThe FEC will get around to it in a few years…….
The Harris campaign will have access to the funds while the FEC commissioners decide whether to conduct an investigation; since the FEC has frequently deadlocked on issues 3-3. If they decide to investigate that will take months; followed by the losing party appealing to the courts.
Rip Murdock (3e5426) — 7/23/2024 @ 9:13 pmCorrected link to post 80.
Rip Murdock (3e5426) — 7/23/2024 @ 9:18 pmTurns out it will be the Republicans that will need the pliant judge-I suggest that they file in the Southern District of Florida.
Rip Murdock (3e5426) — 7/23/2024 @ 9:23 pmI guess you polled too low for them to print the number, but kudos on making the list.
lurker (c23034) — 7/23/2024 @ 10:33 pmkelly makes sense with shapiro next ;but may have michigan problem. Two women or two black to risky. Legal(constitutional) problem with newsom. The others less likely. Harris I prosecute sex criminals Trump is one!
asset (c881f5) — 7/24/2024 @ 12:58 amAnother reason why I favor Kelly is because Carville’s right, IMO…
Kelly adds a bit of macho to the karens in the party, neutralizing Vance’s bragging about collecting a government check as a Marine. Bottom line, PA is a linchpin for both candidates, and it’ll be a decision between whether Shapiro or Kelly helps them more.
Paul Montagu (c301a5) — 7/24/2024 @ 4:16 amI don’t know a thing about Shapiro except he is governor of Pennsylvania. What’s his elevator speech?
Kelly’s elevator speech would be as a real guys guy who is for gun restrictions. It may not be the right issue for 2024.
Carville is correct about the eat your spinach, nanny state element of Democrats. It’s baked into the brand, though, and Kelly does not change that. The thing I would advise the Democrats to do is to stop reflexively insisting on making life harder and more expensive. Instead, incentivise entrpeneurs to figure out ways to do things in a more environmentally friendly way. Fat chance…but still…
Appalled (3acc8a) — 7/24/2024 @ 6:58 amKelly would be a mistake by Harris as he’s just not that impressive politically. Unless you think he’d excite the casual democrat voters?
Whereas Shapiro seems to have broad favorables in PA that could help Harris take PA.
Remember, the name of the game isn’t national appeal, but to shore up possible weakness in particular states.
whembly (477db6) — 7/24/2024 @ 7:05 am“The thing I would advise the Democrats to do is to stop reflexively insisting on making life harder and more expensive.”
This is likely true. The challenge is it’s not in the Democrat DNA to consider cutting regulations as a solution. That’s one arena that Trump’s team understood and might also be a legacy Mike Pence influence. The DEMs just don’t have a lot beyond government programs to offer. It’s why moderates and independents are leaning Trump. He’s awful but at least he gets that government makes our lives harder.
AJ_Liberty (385094) — 7/24/2024 @ 7:17 amIt’s baked into the brand, though, and Kelly does not change that.
No, he’s the guy standing next to the preachy women, nodding.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/24/2024 @ 8:22 amHe’s awful but at least he gets that government makes our lives harder.
Something he’s had a lot of experience with over the years, especially of late.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/24/2024 @ 8:24 amThe only good thing about Kelly is his active duty military experience. If I could change presidential qualifications, I would require candidates to have served in the active duty military.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/24/2024 @ 8:46 amLOL! Given my views I would never appear on that list. 🤣🤣
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/24/2024 @ 8:47 amGood lord, there’s oodles of stories and X posts that reminds me how horrible of a person Harris is…
She’s a Marxist Tyrant.
But, sure vote for her because Trump gives you the ick…
whembly (477db6) — 7/24/2024 @ 8:58 amThere’s some noise that Bootyjuice is being considered.
Unpopular opinion: If you’re looking for someone who can convey competence in rallies, debates, news conference he’s a strong pick.
Just not sure how he helps Harris in the electoral college.
whembly (477db6) — 7/24/2024 @ 9:14 am“Marxist Tyrant”?
I don’t like her.
I don’t like her policies.
I don’t like her governing philosophy
But Marxist Tyrant feels like the lefts effort to paint Romney as a white nationalist.
Also, reducing the many cogent explanations of why ppl won’t vote for Trump to “gives you the ick” is a level of dismissivness you don’t normally show.
Time123 (866503) — 7/24/2024 @ 9:54 amhttps://www.cnbc.com/select/car-repossessions-are-up/
That gangbuster economy. Bidenomics for ya.
Car repossessions up 23%.
NJRob (ffe785) — 7/24/2024 @ 9:54 am@95
Nope. She’s a Marxist adherent who’s not afraid of abusing her office’s power.
Would you like for me to list out her actual past behaviors and statements showing that?
Or, if you’d like, google it… there’s no shortage of that.
Oh? I’m supposed to entertain the idea that Trump’s:
…a danger to democracy?
…a 2nd Trump administration will end the republic?
…Trump is an insurrectionist?
Yeah… not sorry for dismissing those positions because its simply an overreaction premised on personal animus.
Ultimately, presidential candidates is an exercise of comparing and contrasting what they would do in office.
Do you want more of the same of the 1st Trump administration.
Or, do you want an absolute partisan ideologue, whom was ranked as the left-most senator at her tenure, whom historically has show no compunction to push the powers of her office to advance her partisan/power agendas.
whembly (477db6) — 7/24/2024 @ 10:18 amIf this is your conclusion from everything I and others have written I don’t see how more explanation on my part will better help you understand my POV.
Time123 (06bd30) — 7/24/2024 @ 10:21 amBut Marxist Tyrant feels like the lefts effort to paint Romney as a white nationalist.
Now, AOC, otoh….
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/24/2024 @ 10:26 amPresident Harris would not be a Marxist tyrant for the same reason that Trump will not be a MAGA tyrant — the system is designed to thwart tyrants. The flipping Hellfire Club wrote our constitution and they protected it well from people like themselves.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/24/2024 @ 10:28 amWith Harris not being a governor and not having much in the way of foreign policy experience, strategically she needs to address one or both, while eying how it helps electorally. Again, if this started at the end of last summer as it should, there would have been an open primary and the resulting dog show would give the public a bit more information about who is better on stage and who can make a compelling case. I question whether Harris would have ultimately emerged on the top. She may not be as bad as Republicans portray, but she’s also not as smooth and seasoned as Democrats imagine. She can win, but I doubt that she gives them the best ticket.
Harris gives the Democrats an effective voice for those who want to emphasize reproductive freedoms. But you do have to find the right tone on the whole issue to not aggravate potential independents and moderates who you cannot afford to lose. It will be a weird and wild 100 days. The economy will probably give us Trump, but it’s not foreclosed…
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 7/24/2024 @ 10:37 amAny other Democrats interested in being the nominee could have challenged Biden in the primaries, they just chose not to do so.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/24/2024 @ 11:19 amThe word is abortion. Just like the media and the left aborted Biden’s nomination. It was a really late term abortion.
NJRob (ffe785) — 7/24/2024 @ 11:31 am#102
Any other Democrats interested in being the nominee could have challenged Biden in the primaries, they just chose not to do so.
Ask Dean Phillips how that would have worked out…
Appalled (3acc8a) — 7/24/2024 @ 11:35 am“Ultimately, presidential candidates is an exercise of comparing and contrasting what they would do in office.”
The problem is that it’s hard to know with Trump. It’s even hard to anticipate who will be his top advisers and whether he will listen to those who are competent. Retribution being promised by the chief law enforcement officer is at minimum concerning. Further politicizing the DoJ is unwise. Knee-capping Ukraine and NATO is potentially devastating.
The bigger problem is that Trump knows how to not answer questions or, rather, answer them with innocuous Trump-speak. When he promises to be a dictator for a day, clearly he alludes to a bunch of Executive Orders but he doesn’t back away from the impression the word dictator connotes.
A lot of the comparing and contrasting it seems to me is an exercise in seeing what you want to see…especially from a partisan perspective. Harris will socialize everything, while Trump will end inflation. Both have little basis in reality. Trump is a wild card. I can reasonably anticipate military action in Mexico and at the border with Trump. It may cause some to cheer. I worry that over-reactions can lead to further over-reactions. Harris’ inaction is a problem too but I imagine her being far more incremental and cautious.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 7/24/2024 @ 11:38 amDean Phillips was at best a backbencher with zero name recognition. If Newsom or any other prominent Democrat had entered the primaries, and actually won a few, Biden could have withdrawn far earlier than a few weeks before the convention.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/24/2024 @ 12:41 pm@98
Oh you misunderstand…
I understand your POV… I just don’t agree with it.
Succinctly stated, yours (and others) POV is that Trump is a Republic end (norms ending) political actor.
My POV is that politicians like Harris (and much of Democrats), are looking to advance radical, leftist policies that are anathema to our constitutional governance.
For me, my vote is to be that not-Democrat voter.
whembly (477db6) — 7/24/2024 @ 1:33 pm@101
I still don’t think Trump has an easy win. Far from it.
I think the race is Harris’ to lose, as she’ll have every single advantage possible.
whembly (477db6) — 7/24/2024 @ 1:35 pm@105
I don’t understand this premise.
Trump is an old dog. He’s not going to change (and I doubt nearly being assassinated would make him reassess either).
You’re going to see a 2nd term, not unlike his 1st term. Maybe even more neutered because he’ll have his every actions vigorously challenged than that of his 1st term.
whembly (477db6) — 7/24/2024 @ 1:38 pmLOL!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/24/2024 @ 1:38 pmI thought the equal time rule was repealed during the Administration of Ronald Reagan, and made the Rush Limbaugh show possible.
Besides, it is a bonafide news event. Aren’t political conventions that?
But this is typical Trump, using old laws or questionable interpretations of laws. He may have learned that from Roy Cohn. (or did he just learn from him to countersue?)
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 7/24/2024 @ 2:29 pmHarris will have to say something about the pro-Hamas protesters and the Gaza war in general. She won’t be able to avoid it. (unless maybe Josh Shapiro is her VP and he handles it??)
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 7/24/2024 @ 2:32 pmKamala Harris never had anything to do with border policy!
That was PR to pass the buck and Republicans pretended to believe it.. maybe that was their one precaution about having to run against Kamala Harris.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 7/24/2024 @ 2:35 pm@109, except you will immediately see a historic action of dismissing pending charges. Again, take that as you will as the voters will be essentially authorizing this. Trump is an old dog but he’s also unpredictable. I don’t anticipate him going after Biden or his son now that they are out of his way. I do think he will try to settle some scores…somehow….with the J6 committee and maybe even Jack Smith. But without the need to face the voters again, I’m less confident than you about what he will try and achieve. I suspect that all of his praise for Orban suggests that there will be an underlying illiberal agenda to both leave his footprint on the GOP for the foreseeable future and to usher in his dynasty, with Don Jr likely the heir apparent. I also fear that he will do things internationally that might be difficult to untangle. At his core, he likes isolationism and was irritated by those in his inner circle…like Esper, Kelly, Mattis, and Bolton…who questioned its wisdom. His VP choice is not encouraging on this point.
Again, I won’t vote for him precisely because of these risks and because he is the opposite of a conservative Republican….and because he’s dragged too many down into the gutter with him.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 7/24/2024 @ 2:35 pmNo transcript yet of Netanyahu’s 4th speech to Congress. It was broadcast on Bloomberg radio and Fox. but not CBS or NBC
Some interesting things in here including peace terms different from those being negotiated for a ceasefire.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 7/24/2024 @ 2:41 pmthe first comes from some enemies, the second is said by Donald Trump himself.
What Harris says is that she will preserve abortion. But not to prevent crime, as could be argued.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 7/24/2024 @ 2:44 pmIf not for his daddy’s money, Trump would have been the bellboy who brings you up a bottle of scotch after hours, arranges for a “girl” to “call” on you, tells you in which room the high stakes poker game is, and on weekends caddies for you and signs your scorecard, always with his palm out for a tip.
With his daddy’s money, he gets to own the hotel-casino and golf course, and import “models” from the Soviet Bloc on visas, but the essence is the same. I can’t believe that we’ve been putting up with the turd for going on nine years now.
nk (53c4b6) — 7/24/2024 @ 2:58 pmSo, if Trump is down 15 points by September, can he step down, too?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/24/2024 @ 3:09 pmAny other Democrats interested in being the nominee could have challenged Biden in the primaries, they just chose not to do so.
Right. I always wondered how Maxine Waters never got primaried.
Also, the law against sleeping under bridges is fair because it applies to rich and poor.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/24/2024 @ 3:13 pmHarris’ inaction is a problem too but I imagine her being far more incremental and cautious.
On some things. She favors nuking the filibuster, as do Senate Democrats (it was only Sinema and Manchin that said no). She also favors adding justices to the Supreme Court to “get it back in balance” (read: ban guns) and getting rid of the filibuster would make that easy.
To me, packing the Court is as much an attack on the Constitution and democracy as J6, and unlike J6 it would likely work.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/24/2024 @ 3:17 pmIf not for his daddy’s money, Trump would have been the bellboy
If not for his daddy’s money he’d have been dead in a ditch 50 years ago after hustling the wrong person.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/24/2024 @ 3:18 pmAgain, take that as you will as the voters will be essentially authorizing this.
Indeed. The People are sovereign, and the sovereign can pardon.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/24/2024 @ 3:21 pmAlso, the law against sleeping under bridges is fair because it applies to rich and poor.
There is no right to sleep. Grants Pass v. Johnson. That is what the jumped-up bellboy’s Supreme Court has wrote. (Wrought, too.)
nk (53c4b6) — 7/24/2024 @ 3:23 pmThere is no right to sleep on my lawn. So, get off.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/24/2024 @ 3:35 pmBecause she was popular in her district?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/24/2024 @ 4:08 pmThe Jesuits did not get me until law school, so I never learned casuistry. Probably why I was not appointed to the Supreme Court.
You remember the Obamacare case? When Chief Justice French-Fry-On-The-Subway ruled: “Of course, you can opt out of the mandate. Die!”
nk (53c4b6) — 7/24/2024 @ 4:13 pm> “get it back in balance” (read: ban guns)
restore Roe and Chevron, undo the presidents-are-immune-to-prosecution thing, protect Obergefell (Kim Davis is appealing a case brought against her for refusing to issue a marriage license to a gay couple by arguing that Obergefell should be overturned).
i’m sure she’d *like* to ban guns, but the motivation for supreme court reform right now has nothing to do with gun bans.
aphrael (873cd6) — 7/24/2024 @ 4:28 pm> So, if Trump is down 15 points by September, can he step down, too?
One difference is that is *after* the state filing deadlines, so it depends on how willing you are to ignore the actual state rules (which are still being complied with in Harris’ case).
My view would be that given the nature of presidential elections (where the party certifies the candidate rather than the primary results controlling the placement on the ballot), fundamentally states should allow it up until the date the proofs have to be provided to the printer to get the ballots printed for international military absentees.
After that point, it’s complicated, because while you *could* reprint the ballots for domestic absentees and polling places, you have a wierd uncertainty about how to cast the votes cast on the already mailed international absentees. It should still probably be allowed, though, especially if the actual *electors* haven’t been changed — there are just complexities to consider that make it less absolutely clear.
aphrael (873cd6) — 7/24/2024 @ 4:31 pmSince all those rulings were correct and the proper application of the Constitution, what you are suggesting would be rampant abuse and the destruction of the Republic.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 7/24/2024 @ 5:19 pmBecause she was popular in her district?
No, because she would cut the balls off of anyone who dared.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/24/2024 @ 6:31 pmi’m sure she’d *like* to ban guns, but the motivation for supreme court reform right now has nothing to do with gun bans.
Given them a 9-6 majority and see what they do.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/24/2024 @ 6:32 pmstates should allow it up until the date the proofs have to be provided to the printer to get the ballots printed for international military absentees.
Yet another reason I hate long early voting periods, as those are what drive the ballots now.
And what is this “printing” thing you speak of? My ballot comes off a printer at the polling place, allowing me to vote anywhere in my county.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/24/2024 @ 6:35 pm> My ballot comes off a printer at the polling place, allowing me to vote anywhere in my county.
Different counties do it differently, but if you’re an overseas military voter the county MUST mail you a paper ballot per the Help America Vote Act of 2003.
aphrael (6b6572) — 7/24/2024 @ 6:41 pmA reaction to Florida 2000
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/24/2024 @ 6:45 pmMaxine Waters has been “primaried” in just about every primary election since her first one in 1990, just not successfully. The exceptions were in 2008 and 2010 when she ran unopposed.
The closest she came to losing was when she won by “only” 31 points in 2012 and 34 points in 2014. Since then her winning margins are around 50-60+ points.
The only way she could lose is when she’s carried out in a pine box. Even then she could win if her name is on the ballot.
I generally oppose term limits , but in her case I would make an exception. Unfortunately, the only way to impose term limits is by a constitutional amendment.
Rip Murdock (3e5426) — 7/24/2024 @ 11:16 pm@136 Auntie Maxine while not militant enough for most voters in her district is the best they are allowed to vote for. Being more militant and the deep state steps in. Same with the squad. Jamal Bowman was redistricted bring in more moderate voters and slicing off more militant black voters. I get stuck voting for katie hobbs and mark kelly. In district meetings the clinton/biden people battle the bernie people more then they do republicans!
asset (32c7a8) — 7/25/2024 @ 3:11 amAsset, I’m pleased to hear that centrist democrats are doing a good job keeping the left in check. I understand that’s not your preference but Bernie was one of the candidates in the 2020 primary I wouldn’t have voted for in the general against Trump.
Time123 (bf315e) — 7/25/2024 @ 5:12 amThe difference between Left and Right is that Nancy Pelosi gets free rides on Air Force planes and Clarence Thomas gets free rides on Harlan Crow’s plane.
nk (bb1548) — 7/25/2024 @ 5:26 amIt’s almost like the far-left should just form their own party instead of trying to infiltrate the Democratic Party.
SamG (4e6c22) — 7/25/2024 @ 6:04 amAnti-Israel riots in the streets yesterday with fires and attacks on police. Just a reminder that Kamala refuses to show any sign of support of Israel and she’s previously bailed out these violent attackers.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 7/25/2024 @ 6:45 amGiven that Trump’s running mate was originally James Donald Bowman, then changed it to James David Bowman, then changed it to Jimmy Hamel, then changed it to his current, JD Vance, I suggest for just one more name change, to Mike Pence.
Paul Montagu (4046b0) — 7/25/2024 @ 7:18 amNJRob, Do you feel that bail is a fundamental right or not?
Time123 (8ffa69) — 7/25/2024 @ 7:18 am@120
1000% this.
whembly (477db6) — 7/25/2024 @ 7:28 am@130
Actually, what they want “restored”, is the ideological slant of the courts so that they can forum shop and advance radical agendas in court the they couldn’t pass in Congress.
That’s what they want and why they’re so angry that they “lost” the courts.
whembly (477db6) — 7/25/2024 @ 7:31 am@139
Pelosi get’s free ride because she was the Speaker.
Thomas get’s free ride because he’s friends with the Crows. You are implying that there’s no “friendship” here, and that there’s some insidious “plans” to influence Thomas’ opinions simply because he’s friends with a billionaire.
This is a dumb line of attack nk. Simply beneath you.
whembly (477db6) — 7/25/2024 @ 7:35 am@140
Too late. The Democrat Party is the far left party.
The liberals/moderate/centrist Democrats needs to form a new party.
whembly (477db6) — 7/25/2024 @ 7:36 am@146, The amount of money and expensive gifts that Thomas has gotten is an ethical mess. It may be legal, but it’s not right. Considering how vehement you’ve been about donations less then 100$ signifying bias I have to assume this is willful blindness on your part.
Time123 (8ffa69) — 7/25/2024 @ 7:43 amNope, It’s bad policy for sure. But the constitution doesn’t specify an exact number changing the current number isn’t unconstitutional.
If someone does pack the courts I hope they go big. Adding just enough justices to change the make up will just cycle. If they’re going to go from 9 to some other number it needs to be a big jump. Like 500 judges big. Or 1,500. It’s been 9 justices for a long time and while it may be legal to add more unless there’s bipartisan consensus and the increase is perceived as ‘fair’ it will be a huge mess and eventually result in the need for a major overhaul.
The fact that Jan 6 was poorly executed attempt to steal the presidency doesn’t mean it wasn’t a sincere attempt. The fact that it wasn’t likely doesn’t mean it wasn’t possible. There are a lot of hypothetical ways it might have ‘worked’.
The real tragedy is that Trump made a sincere attempt to steel the presidency and the Republican party is fine with that. No consequence for the attempt. I wonder how many ppl in Michigan, GA, PA, AZ, or WI refused to participate due to fear of what would happen to them? I wonder if there will be more support the next time someone tries?
Seems likely.
Time123 (8ffa69) — 7/25/2024 @ 7:51 amMaybe they can take the moderate / centrist republicans and have a viable chance….
Time123 (8ffa69) — 7/25/2024 @ 7:52 am@143
Yes, it’s a fundamental right, when it’s done the correct way.
Bail is simply the defendant offering up collateral to ensure that a defendant appears in court for their trial or other court-ordered obligations. Getting some of that money back afterwards incentivizes good behavior while awaiting charges.
The issue regarding Harris’ advocating others to donate to a fund used to bailout rioters REMOVES that incentive. It’s even MORE pernicious when the riots happens in an area where the DA either reduces or refuses the typical charges during riots.
So, in the fact that most riots took place in Blue ran cities helmed by Soros-funded Prosecutors who routinely drops or reduce charges in these scenarios. The *only* disincentive is being arrested and temporarily incarcerated until bail hearing.
But if the defendants are getting routinely bailed out from OTHER people’s money, and that they generally know that the DAs either downgrade the charges or simply drop the charges, then these rioters basically sees zero consequences for rioting.
Am I making sense Time123?
Those complaining about Harris advocating to bail out the rioters, and even SUPPORTING the rioters cause, has very good case to point out how despicable this is.
And it’s NOT coming from a perspective that we don’t believe bail is a fundamental right. Its coming from our disgust at the Democrat Presidential Nominee, current VP, who championed the rioter’s cause, encouraged it and advocating a fund that massively reduces the disincentivizing effects of proper bail application to the point that the same people arrested, riots again when they get out.
whembly (477db6) — 7/25/2024 @ 8:00 am@148 @146,
…yet, no one has produced any previous case, where the Crows are party to a controversy in any meaningful way one could question that bias.
You’re simply in “what if” territory with respect to Thomas.
That’s NOT the same case when I challenged Trump’s NY case’ bias.
So, no. Not the same thing.
whembly (477db6) — 7/25/2024 @ 8:03 am@150
Go for it.
Or, hear me out on this. Don’t take the ball and go home.
Do the hard and necessary work to change the direction of your party.
whembly (477db6) — 7/25/2024 @ 8:04 am@149
No Time… it’s beyond bad policy. It’s republic breaking in that everytime the powers of government changes, namely the Whitehouse and Senate is controlled by same party, will respond over and over again until will have a SCOTUS that would look like Congress.
whembly (477db6) — 7/25/2024 @ 8:06 amI would find that argument persuasive if the ppl you’re talking about had been consistent in their views with respect to the ppl arrested for actions on Jan 6. (NJRob was specifically not)
Both groups have a right to bail.
But since the ppl attacking Harris had a different view for Jan 6 your explanation isn’t persuasive. It’s logical and internally consistent. But due to the difference in treatment of the 2 cases it just reads as a dishonest justification for partisanship.
Time123 (6badce) — 7/25/2024 @ 8:07 am@154, kind of have a similar problem now in that president can’t appoint a SCJ unless their party also controls congress.
The appointment process for SCJ is already badly broken.
Time123 (6badce) — 7/25/2024 @ 8:09 am@155
No. I think it’s either you are misunderstand the premise or you are simply dishonest yourself.
It’s not about whether or not they have a right to bail.
It’s HOW the bail process is being used, in such a way that reduces or eliminates the defendant’s incentive for good behavior.
Having someone else paying for your bail does not.
Saying someone should NOT pay for these rioter’s bail is NOT the same as denying the right to HAVE bail.
whembly (477db6) — 7/25/2024 @ 8:11 am@152. I don’t believe you in this. You’ve said that a 15$ donation to Act blue made someone a “dyed in the wool liberal” but you assert that millions in gifts to Thomas are a non issue? That hiring his wife as a consultant for cases before the court is a non issue?
I’m sorry but I don’t believe you’re being honest about your POV.
Time123 (6badce) — 7/25/2024 @ 8:12 am@156
That maybe so.
But, adding more seats in response to an ideological flip is a UNIVERSE more destructive than the current mess we’re in now.
whembly (477db6) — 7/25/2024 @ 8:12 amI get your premise.
But we routinely allow 3rd parties to assist with bail. It only comes up here because it provides a partisan attack angle.
When the same thing happens in other cases you, and others advancing this point, have no objection.
Time123 (6badce) — 7/25/2024 @ 8:14 am@158
Believe what you want.
Should I point out you’re not consistent from your POV?
If you think “15$ donation to Act blue made someone a “dyed in the wool liberal” is nothing, and that sole judge is able to adjudicate in a non-partisan manner, then why the grief on Thomas? Why don’t you give him the same benefit of doubt?
whembly (477db6) — 7/25/2024 @ 8:15 am@160
Uh… I’m unaware that we routine allow 3rd party to assist with bail.
What are you talking about. Care to give any examples?
I would have the same problem if the J6 defendant were bailed out in the same manner as the Summer Riots bailout funds.
whembly (477db6) — 7/25/2024 @ 8:16 am@161 because the differences in amounts is massive.
Time123 (6badce) — 7/25/2024 @ 8:20 amBecause the benefits Thomas has received from Harlan Crow and others exceed by huge magnitudes beyond $15?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/25/2024 @ 8:31 am@163
I think that irrelevant and thus you’re positing contradictory positions.
Here’s my thinking on this:
1) The Trump judge had documented, known bias. Even went so far as to personally donate his own money to ActBlue, a hyper-partisan Democrat party apparatchik. Even it was for $15, so what? What was the purpose? It wasn’t like this outfit need that $15… so why do it?
I’ll tell you why: It’s his mark in the public that conveys, “I’m a democrat, I’m on your team”. And in New York, if you want to be a state judge, you must be a player in the Democrat circles.
That’s fine, that’s the nature of a Democrat party dominated state. That’s pretty much the story nation-wide.
So, the issue comes down to this: Can these judges show us that they can set aside their bias when they put on their black robe.
You and I disagree that this judge as done so… but, that’s a disagreement.
2) Again, with regards to Thomas, no one can point out if Thomas’ previous ruling was inappropriately leverage by his relationship with the Crows. Furthermore, Thomas has met his ethical duties in documenting his gifts. To this day, I think most, if not all of Thomas’ criticism stems from the fact that he’s a conservative black man, and no one has yet to convince me otherwise.
whembly (477db6) — 7/25/2024 @ 8:36 am@164 Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/25/2024 @ 8:31 am
whembly (477db6) — 7/25/2024 @ 8:38 amAgain, irrelevant, and see post @165.
Nah. Just saying that they’re all parasites, out for all the freebies they can get, from whatever source.
The words “democracy” and “parasite” have the same historical antecedents. Democratic Athens maintained a communal dining hall to encourage all the citizens to occasionally “get together for lunch” for the purposes of social intercourse and civic participation. The parasition. People who did not attend were considered civically aloof*, people who used it for their daily meals parasites — freeloaders.
*It’s where “idiot” comes from, too, I think, but that’s a subject for another day.
nk (c39b0e) — 7/25/2024 @ 8:53 amWhembly, there’s a difference between a nominal amount of money and a material amount of money. If one of my companies suppliers offers me a gold pen, or a fancy leather folio it might reasonably raise questions about if they’re trying to influence me. If it’s a bic pen and a steno pad because I left mine in the car there are no such concerns.
A minuscule donation signals very little and doesn’t signify a level of bias so large the judge needs to recuse themself.
Millions of dollars on vacations, lavish gifts and 10’s of thousands of dollars to his wife for consulting on cases before the court are a different matter entirely.
Time123 (8ffa69) — 7/25/2024 @ 8:57 am@167
Now that’s insightful… didn’t know that.
whembly (477db6) — 7/25/2024 @ 8:57 amMaxine Waters has been “primaried” in just about every primary election since her first one in 1990,
Not what I see or remember.
She was first elected in 1990 and had primary opponents then and in 1992.
She had no Democrat opponent in 1994, 1996, 1998, 2000, 2002 and 2004.
In 2006 a former Republican opponent ran in the primary as a Democrat.
In 2008 and 2010 she was again unopposed in the primary.
Starting in 2012, California went to a jungle primary and she had a Democrat opponent that year who actually got some votes (35%).
She again had no Democrat opponent in 2014, 2016, 2018 and 2020.
In 2022 she had a Democrat opponent who got fewer votes that the two Republicans in the primary.
So, in sum, and not counting the initial race in 1990, as an incumbent Waters had had Democrat opponents at most 4 times (1992, 2006*, 2012 and 2022) in 16 elections.
So, your unsourced assertion is wrong.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/25/2024 @ 8:58 amThe difference between Left and Right is that Nancy Pelosi gets free rides on Air Force planes and Clarence Thomas gets free rides on Harlan Crow’s plane.
Clearly the Air Force has better lobbyists.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/25/2024 @ 9:01 am@162
Here’s one. https://www.gofundme.com/f/bail-money-for-tommy-tellthetruth
Any go fund me (or similar) for legal expenses can be used for bail. Many of the Jan 6 Rioters used donated money to pay for bail. There’s no prohibition against it. It wouldn’t matter if there were as that money can be pretty much be used for anything so if its the public funding directly for bail or to pay of the personal credit card what was used for bail it’s the same thing.
Were you unaware of this?
Time123 (8ffa69) — 7/25/2024 @ 9:02 am@168
Not saying JUST that donation Time, so please don’t purposely misconstrue my poistion.
Take in the totality of the evidence that we have, and I can make a colorable case that this Judge should’ve recused.
And still zero explanation what case before Thomas had a material affect to his judgment.
You do realize that you’re argument that Thomas has zero agency here… don’t you?
I gotta say, I’m suprised you’re taking arguments premised by the most hackish Democrat organization that is ProPublica.
You might want to reconsider.
Especially since much of the controversy seems only to land on the conservative side of the court, and nary on the liberal side.
Why is that?
whembly (477db6) — 7/25/2024 @ 9:03 amThe liberals/moderate/centrist Democrats needs to form a new party.
I was saying just the same thing the other day about the Republicans.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/25/2024 @ 9:05 amI think you’re underestimating the impact of seeing judges say that Roe is settled law on live TV and then overturn it the first chance they get.
But maybe you’re right.
Either way, it’s not illegal, undemocratic, or unconstitutional. It’s bad policy that would damage an already badly broken system that isn’t operating close to how it was originally intended.
Time123 (8ffa69) — 7/25/2024 @ 9:05 amActually it’s not irrelevant. The Code of Conduct for United States Judges, and the newly adopted Supreme Court Code of Conduct, not only covers actual conflicts of interest but also “the appearance of impropriety in all activities.”
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/25/2024 @ 9:06 am@172
Yes I’m unaware of this… and I do find it distasteful.
I don’t recall any politician advocating for donations, ala Harris. Has there been?
Did someone like JD Vance or Ron DeSantis advocate for donations? (I know they challenged the “lawfare” aspect of these, but I don’t recall them pulling a “Harris” here).
Furthermore, there is a distinction here that I need to point out: The prosecution very interested to throw the books at J6.
Very rarely that is the case at the summer riots. I think the number of charges only amounted to like a few thousands in total? (I forget where I got that stat, I’ll try to find it again). But, something like 9 in 10 arrested had charges dropped or massive reduced.
Whereas that ratio is no where near that for J6.
whembly (477db6) — 7/25/2024 @ 9:11 amNope, It’s bad policy for sure. But the constitution doesn’t specify an exact number changing the current number isn’t unconstitutional.
Which is why it would likely work. But it is still an attempt to rig the system to thwart democracy and an open attack on the separation of powers. It also upsets a 150 year-old agreement. Not everything that is “in the Constitution” is written down — precedent matters too.
But you miss my point.
If you look at what Trump attempted at J6, it was to use the tools legally available to produce a perverse result. There is also nothing in the Constitution that says how Congress should validate the electoral votes. The weakness in the argument that Trump’s attempt was outside the scope of existing law is seen in the fact that they urgently rewrote it.
Unlike the perversity of court packing, the desired maneuvering by Pence would have failed primarily because he would not have had the votes.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/25/2024 @ 9:16 am@176
…and Thomas has complied with it all. Any oversight was immediately rectified.
All judges go through with this. You see this especially when judges moves up, the “retroactively” file amendments to ethic documentations. It’s almost normal.
There’s just a massive double standard in play here, all because of the ideological flip of the bench.
whembly (477db6) — 7/25/2024 @ 9:16 am1 Here’s my position @146, The amount of money and expensive gifts that Thomas has gotten is an ethical mess. It may be legal, but it’s not right.
2. I’ll further add that your acceptance of this is hard to square with your zero tolerance position for any financial contribution in other circumstances.
3. Thomas appears to have received an order of magnitude more then any other judge and far more then every other judge combined. Most of it not properly disclosed.
Time123 (8ffa69) — 7/25/2024 @ 9:18 amFrankly, I can see the Court rejecting an expansion on the basis that 150 years of precedent matters and that packing the Court for partisan gain is destabilizing to the separation of powers and the entire Constitutional system. Which it would be.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/25/2024 @ 9:19 am@178
Exactly that Kevin.
You’re marching awfully close to my #NeverDemocrat positions.
Just because there’s no prohibition to doing “x” (ie, expand the court), doesn’t mean it couldn’t be a Republic busting event.
whembly (477db6) — 7/25/2024 @ 9:19 amTime,
If we added up all of Pelosi’s Air Force flights, how much would that be worth? These are not in the back of a C-5A either, but zeroth-class flights in C-37s (Gulfstreams).
Note that the Air Force has oodles more to profit by giving perks to Pelosi than anyone does to Thomas, whose votes are pretty much on rails.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/25/2024 @ 9:24 am@177 saying that the book was thrown at Jan 6 rioters is silly. They ware allowed to take the capital, disperse and very very few who have been arrested have not been convicted.
The riots of 2020 were handled very differently with a high level of force used to try and keep and restore order and large numbers of ppl arrested.
Both situations were tough and I don’t blame the police for what they had to do to maintain order. But saying the system went easier on the BLM protestors then they Jan 6 protestors is silly.
Time123 (8ffa69) — 7/25/2024 @ 9:25 amYou’re marching awfully close to my #NeverDemocrat positions.
There is a gap between #NeverDemocrat and #AlwaysRepublican
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/25/2024 @ 9:25 amHe used lies about fraud in an attempt to steal the election via legal pretexts. He wasn’t trying to use a loophole. He was trying to use a pretext.
Time123 (8ffa69) — 7/25/2024 @ 9:27 amKevin, what have I ever said that makes you think I feel Nancy Pelosi is honest? If you want to include her with Thomas in the list of corrupt public officials I’m all for it.
Time123 (8ffa69) — 7/25/2024 @ 9:28 amI think both of them have shown tremendous support for the riots that happened on Jan 6. If you can find a narrow technical difference in their support of Jan 6 and her support of BLM more power to you but from volume and frequency of public statements I think Desantis/Vance have done more to help the Jan 6 Rioters then she’s done for BLM. But I don’t know that it’s a meaningful amount.
WRT to Desantis. Part of why I dislike him is part of why I dislike her. They’re both very willing to use / abuse government power to achieve partisan and policy ends and seem to have very similar philosophies of governance.
In the 2020 primary I was on the fence about Harris. I was a hard no on Sanders and Warren but wasn’t sure i was a hard no for her. Then Trump tried to steal the presidential election and the bar for voting against him was moved.
Time123 (8ffa69) — 7/25/2024 @ 9:36 amHe wasn’t trying to use a loophole. He was trying to use a pretext.
Unlike the Democrats who claim the necessity to pack the court was because of some dastardly GOP transgressions.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/25/2024 @ 9:39 amKevin, Yes court packing would be will to power politics. As was Mconnel’s refusal to hold hearings on Biden’s nominee. Both are legal, neither are principled.
Time123 (8ffa69) — 7/25/2024 @ 9:41 amKevin, what have I ever said that makes you think I feel Nancy Pelosi is honest? If you want to include her with Thomas in the list of corrupt public officials I’m all for it.
Congress passes all kinds of laws that provide perks members of Congress, but does nothing of the sort for judges, not even providing them protective details let alone transportation.
How can they complain when they seek their pleasures elsewhere?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/25/2024 @ 9:43 amPlease see the link I posted on Thomas for an answer to your question.
Time123 (985680) — 7/25/2024 @ 9:48 amAlso there’s a difference between an allowed perk and corrupt gift.
Kevin M, the complaint isn’t that they take their pleasures elsewhere, it’s that they don’t then recuse themselves from cases involving the people that are pleasuring them.
aphrael (873cd6) — 7/25/2024 @ 9:50 am@191
I don’t even have a problem with Pelosi using that perk. She was 3rd in line of the Presidency holding the top chair in the House. That’s significant.
If I have an ethical bone to pick on Pelosi, it’s that she’s somehow the wealthiest Congress-critter via her investment successes in the market.
But, hey, Congress excluding themselves from insider trading laws is a “perk”.
whembly (477db6) — 7/25/2024 @ 9:51 amAs was Mconnel’s refusal to hold hearings on Biden’s nominee.
McConnell’s refusal was exactly the same as EVERY time in history where the Senate was in opposition and an election was coming up.
The closest where that did not happen was Justice Kennedy, who was confirmed in Feb 1988. He has been nominated in 1987 and as a compromise candidate after the nominations of Bork and Ginsberg failed. Even then some Democrats wanted to run out the clock.
Standard Operating Procedure is not a very good pretext. Like gerrymanders this kind of partisan refusal may bend expectations some, but it is hardly unusual.
Court-packing IS unusual, having only mild attempts more than 150 years ago, mostly relating to the Civil War or its aftermath.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/25/2024 @ 9:52 amKevin M, the complaint isn’t that they take their pleasures elsewhere, it’s that they don’t then recuse themselves from cases involving the people that are pleasuring them.
The Court has different rules on recusal than other courts as there is no fill-in. I have more of an issue with Thomas voting on cases that his wife is agitating on than I do with him voting on cases where a friend has an interest.
As for a billionaire friend giving him rides on the jet, well, should he pop for a bus ticket instead? It’s not how billionaires think. To you it might seem like a lot, to them it’s pocket change.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/25/2024 @ 9:58 amAlso there’s a difference between an allowed perk and corrupt gift.
I struggle to see it when it takes the same form. Why is the perk not more corrupt when it is the product of self-dealing?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/25/2024 @ 10:00 am> Not everything that is “in the Constitution” is written down — precedent matters too.
Ah, but the current Supreme Court has decided that precedent *doesn’t* matter.
Why should only one side get to declare that?
aphrael (873cd6) — 7/25/2024 @ 10:05 amProvide evidence or retract this statement. I said violent offenders should be prosecuted. I said those who went for a walk have been attacked with unjust, trumped up charges. The Supreme Court agreed.
NJRob (a3512b) — 7/25/2024 @ 10:06 am> The Court has different rules on recusal than other courts as there is no fill-in.
Having the court decide cases down a person is vastly preferable to having a court decide a case when one of the members is receiving large financial donations from someone party to the case.
I would think that principle would be unquestionable, particularly in *conservative* circles.
But one of the lessons of the last year is that conservatives aren’t as opposed to corruption as they have long seemed to be.
aphrael (873cd6) — 7/25/2024 @ 10:06 am@198
Sure, if you’re ignoring the liberal courts stomping on precedents over history…
whembly (477db6) — 7/25/2024 @ 10:13 amProcess matters.
The system matters.
Part of why I used to like the GOP was its focus on limited government and rule of law. Those were ends to themselves. Respect for precedent is an important part of rule of law
Now I have 2 parties that want to use the government however they can to achieve their policy goals.
Time123 (985680) — 7/25/2024 @ 10:32 am> Sure, if you’re ignoring the liberal courts stomping on precedents over history…
The last time the Supreme Court had a liberal majority was 1969. Up until a few years ago it had a traditional conservative majority. Now it has a conservative revolutionary majority.
aphrael (873cd6) — 7/25/2024 @ 10:40 amWe don’t need seven more gerbils to feed. (Not to mention their 21 law clerks and whatever secretaries, bodyguards, and other additional staff.)
If Congress has the votes to increase the size of the Court, it also has the votes to exercise its authority under the enabling clause of the 14th Amendment and to use its absolute power over the Supreme Court’s appellate jurisdiction, and all of the lower courts’ jurisdiction, to make its statutes stick.
nk (463aa3) — 7/25/2024 @ 10:42 am@203
As Rip often says…
LOL!
whembly (477db6) — 7/25/2024 @ 10:50 amWe are a country wounded by division. I see it every day on this site. However, I think we can all unite on the degree of society gone stupid revealed here:
https://x.com/mannyfidel/status/1816498217271365679/photo/1
Bottom line — if you see JD Vance walking into a furniture story, don’t panic.
Appalled (39c19d) — 7/25/2024 @ 10:54 amAh, but the current Supreme Court has decided that precedent *doesn’t* matter.
No, they decided that some precedent doesn’t hold up. In some cases that people assert precedent (like on gun cases) there has BEEN NONE, and the ones that appeared to be there were largely ignored or were (or should have been) affected by the 14th Amendment.
On abortion, the so-called precedent had never been accepted. Compare Roe to Obergefell, for example. The latter is widely accepted after a few years while the wide opposition to Roe empowered a FIFTY YEAR political struggle (that warped every confirmation hearing) to overturn it.
And sometimes precedent needs to be overturned. The Jim Crow court of the late 1800s made a raft of bad decisions, not just Plessy.
The early 20th century Lochner court nearly got packed over its opposition to FDRs radical expansion of federal power. Most of its precedents are now history.
And yet so much is built on precedent that it is usually worth defending. Until it isn’t. I don’t expect Marbury is going anywhere.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/25/2024 @ 11:43 am> The latter is widely accepted after a few years
There’s a county clerk, Kim Davis, who was fined for refusing to issue a marriage licence to a gay couple.
She is appealing on the grounds that Obergefell was wrongly decided.
My expectation is that this will lead to Obergefell being overturned.
aphrael (873cd6) — 7/25/2024 @ 11:57 amThe last time the Supreme Court had a liberal majority was 1969
If you mean one appointed mostly by Democrats, you are correct. But 5 of the Roe majority were appointed by Ike or Nixon, and that was hardly conservative no matter what one means by “conservative.” Gerald Ford’s sole appointment was Stevens, whose support for campaign donation restrictions was also not conservative. GHWB appointed Souter, who was never a conservative. This “conservative” court of yours also banned the death penalty, also not conservative.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/25/2024 @ 11:58 am@206 “However, I think we can all unite on the degree of society gone stupid revealed here”
If by “society” you mean the media, and the AP specifically, yes we can all agree. But it doesn’t look like that’s what you meant. Society seems to have coalesced around the truth, so it’s probably fine for now.
lloyd (e0166b) — 7/25/2024 @ 12:13 pmThe attacks on Vance expose the lie that opposition to the GOP is just about Trump. It doesn’t matter who the nominee is.
lloyd (ed591e) — 7/25/2024 @ 12:25 pmThere’s a county clerk, Kim Davis, who was fined for refusing to issue a marriage licence to a gay couple.
There’s probably an election clerk somewhere who won’t register black people. That does not mean that voting rights for all Americans are not widely accepted.
I know a guy who, in a roomful of people who like him will invariably go over to the guy who hates him and try to change his mind. I have no idea why.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/25/2024 @ 12:26 pmMy expectation is that this will lead to Obergefell being overturned.
How many federal-level GOP politicians are running on “overturning Obergefell“? 5? Compare that to Roe 30 years after. You are straining at gnats. About as much chance of overturning Loving.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/25/2024 @ 12:30 pm@206
I found that hysterically funny.
Even the AP fact checked it saying “no… there’s no truth in that”.
whembly (477db6) — 7/25/2024 @ 12:33 pmI agree with Kevin. The US has accepted that Gay Marriage is fine. At this point it’s pretty much just the raging homophobes that are passionately fighting it.
They’re easy to spot. They’re the ones who use “Pedo” to insult / describe gay ppl.
Time123 (79ee41) — 7/25/2024 @ 12:34 pm@206. That’s hilarious. If were Vance I’d rather NOT has a an article up with my name anywhere near “sex with a couch” in the headline
Time123 (79ee41) — 7/25/2024 @ 12:35 pmBTW, I wrote a long piece well before Obergefell, pointing out that, for the people it directly affected, establishing same-sex marriage was more important than establishing interracial marriage.
Why? Aren’t both equally unfair?
No. While some interracial couples might be prevented from marrying absent Loving, neither of them would be denied the institution of marriage itself, and they could marry within their race and find happiness.
Not the same with gays, who would be denied the ability to marry ANY person with whom they could find happiness.
Overturning Obergefell would be crueler than overturning Loving.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/25/2024 @ 12:37 pm@214 ‘Even the AP fact checked it saying “no… there’s no truth in that”’
whembly, you’re missing the point.
Noah Rothman:
“Last night, the AP published a “fact-check” of utterly unknown nobodies who alleged that JD Vance fornicated a couch, not because anyone believed that but because it introduces that nonsense into the bloodstream. Today, it’s gone. So sleazy.”
In other words, the AP said “Don’t think about Vance doing X because it’s false” when no one was thinking it in the first place.
lloyd (ed591e) — 7/25/2024 @ 12:38 pmIf were Vance I’d rather NOT has a an article up with my name anywhere near “sex with a couch” in the headline
So far 3 out of 3 contenders have no wish to throw that kind of mud.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/25/2024 @ 12:39 pm> How many federal-level GOP politicians are running on “overturning Obergefell“?
A rounding error of none.
But that doesn’t matter, what matters are:
* are there four votes on the supreme court to hear the appeal when it gets there? (I think Thomas, Alito, and Gorsuch are guaranteed on this; can they get a fourth?)
* are there five votes to overturn it? (I think Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch, and Roberts are guaranteed on this; can they get a fifth?)
aphrael (873cd6) — 7/25/2024 @ 12:41 pmI was kind of astonished that the AP would run the fact-check, but this meme has been all over X and TikTok for several days now.
aphrael (873cd6) — 7/25/2024 @ 12:43 pmI think the next barrier for gay marriage is not overturning Obergefell, but the idea that the state can grant the authority to preside over marriages to an institution that discriminates for whom it will perform marriages. I see a split between the religious ceremony and the legal procedure.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/25/2024 @ 12:43 pmare there five votes to overturn it? (I think Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch, and Roberts are guaranteed on this; can they get a fifth?)
Roberts would surprise me. So would Barrett or Kavanaugh. I see no interest in revisiting something they PUNTED the first time it came up (Prop 8, dismissed on standing grounds).
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/25/2024 @ 12:45 pm@219 “So far 3 out of 3 contenders have no wish to throw that kind of mud.”
Time123 finds it hilarious though. Not necessarily Pizzagate hilarious, but still…
lloyd (ed591e) — 7/25/2024 @ 12:45 pm> It doesn’t matter who the nominee is.
For me:
(a) Trump is a narcissistic con man who has no fidelity or willingness to comply with *any* restraint on his behavior, and who has surrounded himself with yes men, and who has already tried to steal the election once. He is an absolute threat to the Republic
(b) Vance is a wealthy member of the elite masquerading as one of the common people and a supporter of some truly horrible policy ideas who has a tendency to say some pretty terrible thing about women, but as far as I can tell he seems to be normal in terms of his willingness to be restrained by custom and law, so while I would prefer that he not be in office and think we should try to keep him out, he’s not an absolute threat to the Republic.
aphrael (873cd6) — 7/25/2024 @ 12:46 pmMs Daniels will lose in every court that hears it. She needs to get another job. Can the governor remove her?
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/25/2024 @ 12:46 pmLloyd, Whembly also found it funny so I’m in good company by laughing at it. But I understand you don’t see the humor in it. That’s ok. Not everyone laughs at the same things.
Time123 (8ffa69) — 7/25/2024 @ 1:01 pm@217, Kevin that’s a great point and well stated.
Time123 (8ffa69) — 7/25/2024 @ 1:02 pm@227 Yes Time123, I expect between now and November you find a lot of media sleaze funny and I won’t, and it’ll be just because not everyone laughs at the same things and no other reason.
lloyd (ed591e) — 7/25/2024 @ 1:13 pmLloyd,
Snopes did this one on HRC in 2016. It’s not as funny as the one about Vance. But it’s a little funny.
But feel free to ignore how silly some of this stuff is and keep nursing your sense of persecution at every possible opportunity until your stroke out from rage at the unfairness of it all.
Time123 (8ffa69) — 7/25/2024 @ 1:20 pm@231 Time123, you always keep your ad hominem toys handy.
lloyd (ed591e) — 7/25/2024 @ 1:22 pmT
Why would you expect this case to reach the Supreme Court-odds are that it won’t. She is appealing a judgment requiring her to pay attorney’s fees and damages, whether same sex marriages are constitutional is ancillary to her appeal. She has a better chance with her arguments that there is no evidence to support the jury verdict and she was entitled to an accommodation of her sincerely held religious beliefs.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/25/2024 @ 1:29 pmaphrael (873cd6) — 7/25/2024 @ 12:46 pm
Well, he doesn’t want to be “nice” even though it would make sense for him to do so, but he is constrained somewhat by law and by fear of the consequences.
On December 18, 2020, lawyer Sidney Powell managed to get into the Oval Office along with (probable Russian agent) Mike Flynn, who was proposing he declare martial law and seize voting machines and Trump wanted to know if that was legal and when informed was not, declined to do so. Rudolph Giuliani was brought in by the White House counsel, to argue against it. And they also conspired to keep Sidney Powell and Mike Flynn from seeing Trump again.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/12/politics/trump-oval-office-meeting-december-2020/index.html
(One result of that meeting, however, may have been Trump agreeing to invite a his supporters to Washington DC for January 6, and to use the word “wild” somewhere in his tweet. It was sent in the early am hours December 19, 2020 (probably without Trump understanding what the organizers wanted with the word “wild”)
Also, later on, on January 3, 2021, when he had approved the appointment of Jeffrey Clark as Acting Attorney General (who was willing to sign a (false) letter saying that the Justice Department had found evidence of voter fraud (and also claimed to Trump that he could find it) Trump withdrew the appointment when Acting Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen and several others at high levels in the Justice Department threatened to resign, and all participants agreed to treat the matter as if it had never happened
(Clark wanted to know if he should resign. But they agreed everyone should just continue on.)
https://www.npr.org/2022/06/23/1107217243/former-doj-officials-detail-threatening-resign-en-masse-trump-meeting
Trump pushes the envelope, but he doesn’t disregard the existence of an envelope altogether.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 7/25/2024 @ 1:43 pm> Why would you expect this case to reach the Supreme Court-odds are that it won’t
Because I expect this particular litigant to keep appealing even after losing at every lower level.
She has an axe to grind on this, and always has — she ran for the job *after Obergefell was decided* and then claimed that her rights were violated by it.
aphrael (873cd6) — 7/25/2024 @ 1:43 pmThe Wall Street Journal had an editorial the other day saying that Kamala Harris did not have to go through the primary system, and yet she was not tacking to the center, but appealing to the Democratic base.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 7/25/2024 @ 1:49 pmKevin M (a9545f) — 7/25/2024 @ 9:16 am
Yes. But court packing also fails because of the lack of votes.
Here’s their newest (Democratic Party) idea:
Appoint a new Supreme Court justice every 2 years, and change the composition of the court so that it consists of the 9 most recently appointed members.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 7/25/2024 @ 1:55 pmWhat caught my eye about what I linked wasn’t just the trajectory of stupid that led to JD Vance being thought of as a furniture molester, but that the AP ended up withdrawing the fact check, because they couldn’t really prove that JDV hadn’t had relationships with that love seat.
It’s funny. But it is so 2024 in the way big media goes full self-parody.
Appalled (88a1a3) — 7/25/2024 @ 1:59 pm@218
Oh no, I got it.
I just found it hilarious that people were even talking about it in the first place. I wasn’t clear as I should’ve been.
whembly (477db6) — 7/25/2024 @ 2:07 pmIt’s funny like when the AP ran the fact check “No, Biden did not order a hit on Trump” but withdrew it because they couldn’t really prove it.
lloyd (ed591e) — 7/25/2024 @ 2:09 pmOff topic, but I think this bit of cheer deserves it:
Some details outside a paywall, here.
(As an American I hopeshe beat’s Calment’s record, though it seems quite unlikely
Jim Miller (adae38) — 7/25/2024 @ 2:24 pmWhat a thing for the Supreme Court to stick out its neck for. I don’t think it will happen.
Gorsuch wrote the majority opinion in Bostock v. Clayton County and Roberts joined it. Peter Thiel will probably ask Trump to have a private talk with Ginni Thomas and Martha-Ann Alito, and that will be the end of the matter as far as this Supreme court is concerned.
nk (fa121b) — 7/25/2024 @ 2:42 pmJeanne Louise Calment may not be a case of a woman who lived to the age of 122. She may have been her daughter, who pretended she died and impersonated her mother when she died in an accident in 1934 in order to avoid inheritance taxes.
https://www.insideedition.com/did-worlds-oldest-ever-person-actually-steal-her-mothers-identity-49648
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 7/25/2024 @ 2:46 pmSome YouGov survey results: (as of Tuesday)
32% “strongly support” Kamala Harris as the new Democratic nominee for president. She is strongly supported by 62% of Democratic respondents.
22% have a “very unfavorable” view of the new Republican VP candidate, J.D. Vance.
23% of people think that the choice of running mate for this years election will be very important.
67% of the country think that violence is more likely to break out in this political landscape than times before
34% describe both the Democratic party and the Republican party as “corrupt”.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 7/25/2024 @ 3:08 pm*sigh*
Why do people do s**t like this?
In Chico, authorities have arrested a man who PUSHED A CAR (THAT WAS ON FIRE) INTO A GULLY, sparking a 42K acre fire which is currently only 3% contained.
aphrael (873cd6) — 7/25/2024 @ 3:10 pm#242 Sammy, the Wikipedia article on Calment has a long discussion of the “switch” claims, along with this possible motive for the switch:
(Links omitted.)
So far as I can tell, most experts think the “switch” theory unlikely, for a number of reasons — including the dubious likely motives of the Russians who pushed it.
Jim Miller (adae38) — 7/25/2024 @ 3:24 pmhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanne_Calment#Scepticism_regarding_age
Lloyd, you’re still confused about what an ad hominem attack is. You did have a good point about the AP though. They should say there isn’t any evidence to support the accusation that JD Vance had sex with a couch.
Time123 (bb264d) — 7/25/2024 @ 4:10 pmSammy, the number of ppl that think both parties are corrupt is depressingly low.
Time123 (bb264d) — 7/25/2024 @ 4:11 pm122 years old especially for a woman) is not impossible but the idea of switch is based upon there not being any recent person with an age in between, and the fact that she was supposedly vague in her descriptions of her early life and that not too many people knew her. She couldn’t have fooled everyone and there would have had to have been other people involved in the conspiracy, but by the time she got old enough for people to notice her extreme reported age, around 1965 or later, there might not have been too many people around to ask. And then Wikipedia notes “However, reportedly on Calment’s instructions, her documents and family photographs were selectively burned by a distant family member, Josette Bigonnet, a cousin of her grandson.”
If true, a lot of people could have been involved in the fraud. And had she not lived past 1985, and into the 1990s nobody might have noticed.
Did anyone ever do any kind of genetic testing?
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 7/25/2024 @ 4:23 pmTime123 (bb264d) — 7/25/2024 @ 4:11 pm
I’m not sure “corrupt” is the right word – dishonest would be better – but people will say yes to the wrong word if it is at least its second cousin> But you need people who don’t tend to think that if one is bad the other is good.
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 7/25/2024 @ 4:26 pmAppoint a new Supreme Court justice every 2 years, and change the composition of the court so that it consists of the 9 most recently appointed members.
Clever. Just like Gingrich’s clever idea of shuttering the 9th Circuit and opening up two new circuits with new judges.
Also, stupid.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/25/2024 @ 4:27 pmWhen Elizabeth Francis turned 114 years old last year
Children born today have a better than even chance of living to 100. Longevity is going to take a leap before midcentury. MABs and other new drugs are getting really good.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/25/2024 @ 4:36 pmWhat a thing for the Supreme Court to stick out its neck for. I don’t think it will happen.
Well, she is certainly heterosexual although why anyone would have her hand out marriage licenses is beyond me. Someone should ask her again about her strongly held religious beliefs and if they cover Commandments 7 and 10
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/25/2024 @ 4:42 pmLloyd, you’re still confused about what an ad hominem attack is.
Let’s see if I can be of help:
Ad hominum: Time, you’re wrong because you’re ugly.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/25/2024 @ 4:48 pmNot ad hominum: Time, you’re wrong and you’re ugly.
Sammy, the number of ppl that think both parties are corrupt is depressingly low.
The number of people who care is depressingly lower.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/25/2024 @ 4:49 pm> Well, she is certainly heterosexual although why anyone would have her hand out marriage licenses is beyond me
Per Wikipedia, she had been the chief deputy clerk for fourteen years (during which time the clerk was *her mother*, so basically she got the job via nepotism). When her mother retired, she ran for the clerk’s job and campaigned on the basis of her extensive experience as a deputy.
In 2014 she ran as a Democrat, but then she switched parties, and in 2018 she ran unopposed in the Republican primary. The voters of the county then tossed her out on her ear in the general election, probably as a result of irritation at her behavior on this issue.
aphrael (873cd6) — 7/25/2024 @ 5:16 pmBut 45% of the voters of her county endorsed her bid for re-election.
aphrael (873cd6) — 7/25/2024 @ 5:17 pm> 67% of the country think that violence is more likely to break out in this political landscape than times before
Given what happened two weeks ago i’m shocked the number is this low.
aphrael (873cd6) — 7/25/2024 @ 5:18 pmGiven what happened two weeks ago i’m shocked the number is this low.
The question I would like to hear honest answers to is “how many people are sorry Trump survived?” I think that would really shock, but maybe not surprise.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/25/2024 @ 8:53 pm@140 Why? Taking over the party worked for the republican populists.
asset (0af236) — 7/25/2024 @ 9:44 pmThe supreme court was picked to be partisan. The court trys to uphold the system to avoid revolution for the wealthy ruling class by being moderately liberal. Brown vs board of education and roe are two examples. Violence and strife are not good for the wealthy ruling class. Such as Dred scott, plessy vs ferguson and dobbs. Conservatives normally oppose force and violence as a tactic as they have more to lose since the tories lost in 1783 to sam adams boys. and still remember gone with the wind and the burning of atlanta. Also the burning of cities in the 1960’s when tiffanys had to right soul brother on their windows. Packing the court is a very moderate response by my side who’s motto is Malcolm X’s “By any means necessary!” Gee I may have to hold my nose and for Harris!
asset (0af236) — 7/25/2024 @ 11:21 pmHow many times has j.d. vance changed his name?
asset (0af236) — 7/25/2024 @ 11:32 pmI dunno if this makes JD worse or better, but a different perspective:
whembly (477db6) — 7/26/2024 @ 6:50 amhttps://www.nationalreview.com/2024/07/right-and-left-are-wrong-about-j-d-vance/
The Obamas have endorsed Harris.
Rip Murdock (3e5426) — 7/26/2024 @ 7:20 am@263, Shocker!
AJ_Liberty (73ab20) — 7/26/2024 @ 7:52 amThe SC has never “banned” the death penalty, it has overturned versions of it based on how it was implemented.
Stevens was in the majority in Gregg, and Souter (appointed 1990) was not yet on the Court and not involved in any major death penalty decisions.
Rip Murdock (3e5426) — 7/26/2024 @ 8:02 amThe Obamas have endorsed Harris.
But strangely it wasn’t the ex-president that did the endorsing.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/26/2024 @ 9:18 am@265: I can always rely on some people for pedantry
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/26/2024 @ 9:20 amOr as I call them, facts.
Rip Murdock (5be45a) — 7/26/2024 @ 9:22 amThey’re going ahead with the early selection of nominees – before August 7 = to forestall any possible revolt.
The legal reasons are spurious.
I heard (based on no named sources) that Barack Obama is the person who came up with the name of Senator Mark Kelly, and that he wanted him to be the nominee for president.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/us/will-mark-kelly-be-surprise-democrat-candidate-as-barack-obama-thinks-kamala-harris-cant-beat-donald-trump-the-inside-story/articleshow/112019198.cms
Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 7/26/2024 @ 1:27 pm@269 if true then gov. shapiro gets it!
asset (37a1fc) — 7/26/2024 @ 3:25 pmOr as I call them, facts.
Semantic hair-splitting.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/26/2024 @ 3:30 pmKamas scheduled appearances with her vice presidential candidate for several days next week, starting Tuesday in Philadelphia. That points either to an appearance at the event by president Joe Biden or to Governor Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania.
The Governors of Kentucky and Minnesota are also (back-up?) possibilities as is Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona and Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg and there were said to be several other dark horses (no names given.)
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 8/1/2024 @ 9:46 am