Patterico's Pontifications

7/12/2024

Weekend Open Thread

Filed under: General — Dana @ 6:23 am



[guest post by Dana]

Let’s go!

NEW – Shots fired at Trump rally while the former president was speaking:

Donald Trump was whisked off the stage at a rally in Butler, Pennsylvania after apparent gunshots rang through the crowd.

The former president and presumptive Republican nominee was showing off a chart of border crossing numbers during his last rally before the Republican National Convention opens Monday when bangs started ringing through the crowd. Trump could be seen reaching with his right hand toward his neck. There appeared to be blood on his face.

He quickly ducked behind the riser as agents from his protective detail rushed the stage and screams were heard in the crowd of several thousand people. The bangs continued as agents tended to him on stage.

The crowd cheered as he got back up and pumped his fist.

His motorcade has since left the venue. His condition was not immediately known.

First news item

If you recall, I posted about “Pastor” Robert Morris of Gateway Church in Southland, Texas and his confession about “inappropriate sexual behavior with a young lady” sexually assaulting a 12-year old girl when he was a young pastor. Now, Lawrence Swicegood, executive director of Gateway Media, has released this statement:

The inappropriate relationship Robert had with Cindy took place…more than a decade before Gateway Church was started. Questions regarding Robert and Cindy should be addressed to them.

Clearly, Gateway Church has learned nothing through this debacle. A 12-year old girl and an adult male sexually assaulting her are not in any kind of relationship other than one of predator and victim. Referring to the crime committed against the 12-year old as a “relationship” is a pathetic attempt to minimize the vile behavior of a man who stood at a pulpit for decades instructing others how to live while covering up his own heinous behavior.

Second news item

Problematic but unsurprising move by Trump lawyers in hush-money case:

Lawyers for Donald Trump are urging a judge in New York to overturn his conviction and dismiss the hush-money case against the former president, arguing some evidence “tainted” the trial and should not have been allowed under the supreme court’s recent ruling on presidential immunity. According to the New York Post, among the “tainted” evidence is a conversation between Trump and then-Communications Director Hope Hicks, where Trump tells Hicks that “it was better” if the story surrounding his alleged affair with porn star Stormy Daniels came out after the 2016 election. “The use of official-acts evidence was a structural error under the federal Constitution,” lawyers Todd Blanche and Emil Bove wrote in a court filing dated July 10 but released on Thursday, according to The Guardian. “The jury’s verdicts must be vacated.”

Third news item

Following in her husband’s footsteps:

Russian authorities on Thursday put the widow of deceased Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny on a list of “terrorists and extremists,” continuing a sweeping Kremlin crackdown on the opposition.

Earlier this week, a Moscow court ordered the arrest of Yulia Navalnaya, who lives abroad, on charges of alleged involvement in an extremist group. The ruling means that Navalnaya would face arrest if and when she returns to Russia.

On Thursday, Russia’s Federal Service for Financial Monitoring followed up by adding Navalnaya to its list of “terrorists and extremists,” a designation that implies restrictions on bank transactions that has been widely used against opposition members.

It makes me happy that Putin views Yulia Navalnaya as a threat. Freedom, and those who advocate for it really scares the Kremlin thugs.

Fourth news item

Oh:

Adults in some U.S. states can now buy gun ammunition out of AI-powered vending machines right at their local grocery store.

The company that makes them argues it’s a safer way to sell ammo than online or off the shelf. But experts have raised concerns about increasing its availability in a country where gun violence is already widespread.

American Rounds LLC currently stocks its “automated ammo retail machines” in eight supermarkets across Alabama, Oklahoma and Texas (at least one was removed earlier this month from an Alabama location, per local news reports). They are launching another this week in Colorado and say many more are on the way.

Fifth news item

President Zelensky expresses his frustration while speaking at NATO:

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky continued his push for President Biden to lift restrictions on Ukraine using American-provided weapons to strike up to 300 miles inside Russia, bolstered by the U.K.’s decision this week to lift similar limits on its long-distance Storm Shadow missiles.

While the Biden administration has given Ukraine the greenlight to strike beyond Russia’s border near the Ukrainian city of Kharkiv, Zelensky is pushing for the U.S. to relent on its broader ban on striking military targets deep inside Russia, in place over concerns of provoking Russian President Vladimir Putin.

“We understand from what military base they attack us, and if they attacked us and killed our children in the hospital, that is crazy question why we can’t answer and attack this person, this military base, where from these guided bombs from jets, or missile came, targeted us, killed our children,” Zelensky said.

Sixth news item

I can’t criticize President Biden’s gaffes and flub-ups without pointing out that Donald Trump struggles with the same problem:

Have a good weekend.

–Dana

950 Responses to “Weekend Open Thread”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (4dee9c)

  2. I said some time back that New Mexico isn’t reliably Democrat this year. Now the Democrats are noticing.

    Democrats Fear Safe Blue States Turning Purple as Biden Stays the Course

    Lingering worries about President Biden’s age could make Minnesota, New Hampshire, New Mexico and Virginia competitive, party operatives believe.

    As President Biden insists he will stay in the presidential race, Democrats are growing increasingly alarmed that his presence on the ticket is transforming the political map, turning light-blue states into contested battlegrounds.

    Down-ballot Democrats, local elected officials and party strategists say Minnesota, New Hampshire, New Mexico and Virginia — all of which Mr. Biden won comfortably in 2020 — could be in play in November after his miserable debate performance last month.

    Some polls in these states suggest a tightening race between Mr. Biden and former President Donald J. Trump, with one showing a virtual tie in Virginia, which has not voted for a Republican for president since 2004, and another showing Mr. Trump squeaking ahead in New Hampshire, which has been in the Democratic column since 2000.

    On Tuesday, the Cook Political Report, a prominent elections forecaster, downgraded New Hampshire and Minnesota from “likely” wins for Mr. Biden to only leaning in his direction. And in a meeting at the White House last week, Gov. Michelle Lujan Grisham of New Mexico told Mr. Biden that she feared he would lose her state, according to two people briefed on her comments.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  3. RCP betting odds:

    Trump 57.2
    Harris 17.7
    Biden 12.2
    Obama 3.6

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  4. Second news item

    Problematic but unsurprising move by Trump lawyers in hush-money case:

    Lawyers for Donald Trump are urging a judge in New York to overturn his conviction and dismiss the hush-money case against the former president, arguing some evidence “tainted” the trial and should not have been allowed under the supreme court’s recent ruling on presidential immunity. According to the New York Post, among the “tainted” evidence is a conversation between Trump and then-Communications Director Hope Hicks, where Trump tells Hicks that “it was better” if the story surrounding his alleged affair with porn star Stormy Daniels came out after the 2016 election. “The use of official-acts evidence was a structural error under the federal Constitution,” lawyers Todd Blanche and Emil Bove wrote in a court filing dated July 10 but released on Thursday, according to The Guardian. “The jury’s verdicts must be vacated.”

    I still think Erlinger v. US is the stronger play for the defense:
    https://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/erlinger-v-united-states/

    This Erlinger opinion held that any fact that has the effect of increasing the range of a defendant’s punishment must be found by a unanimous jury beyond a reasonable doubt. That’s exactly what Bragg did by elevating the misdemeaner to a felony via this “second crime” allegation.

    The existence of a second crime, allegedly concealed by the business-records-falsification crime, is a fact that increases the range of Trump’s potential punishment.

    Bragg could only bring this case as a felony in order to overcome any statute of limitations hurdles. So the allegation of this second crime, which is the vehicle than turned a nominal misdemeanor into a felony, is the fact that without which could not have been any prosecution at all.

    Therefore, under Erlinger, the jury must find that fact unanimously.

    This is one of several off ramp afforded by Merchan, unless he wants to get humiliated on appeal.

    whembly (477db6)

  5. More radio scandal:

    Not only did two radio stations agree to only ask provided questions when interviewing Biden after the debate, but one of them subsequently edited the session to remove two segments the Biden people objected to.

    The station’s press release on the subject:

    The Earl Ingram Show was one of two radio programs contacted by the Biden campaign following the June 27th debate to speak with President Biden. The interview was recorded on July 3rd and aired on July 4th on Civic Media radio stations across Wisconsin. On Monday, July 8th, it was reported to Civic Media management that immediately after the phone interview was recorded, the Biden campaign called and asked for two edits to the recording before it aired. Civic Media management immediately undertook an investigation and determined that the production team at the time viewed the edits as non-substantive and broadcast and published the interview with two short segments removed.

    Details at link.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  6. Biden is a slow walker, and he continues to slow-walk Ukraine. Zelenskyy’s frustration is understandable because Russia is too easily able to hit his country with terrorist attacks.

    Paul Montagu (7f669c)

  7. The fear of “escalation” and “proxy war” accusations have kept the slow walk in place. The thing is, it’s Putin who wins with this strategy, while children’s hospitals get bombed. Additionally, we are already being accused of a proxy war with Russia and every other bad thing imaginable, so what difference does it make if Ukraine is allowed to attack further into Russia?

    Dana (0f542a)

  8. Dana, I am really curious about your opinion. Actually, I am curious about everyone’s opinion.

    I think that most everyone agrees that both DJT and JRB are substandard candidates for multiple reasons. Age is certainly one of them

    So:

    What is your idea of a “good” lineup between Team R and Team D for POTUS?

    I don’t care about whatever the term “electability” means these days. Surely we can think about match ups between decent candidates? I think we spend so much time as a nation demonizing and deifying candidates that we lose site of the bigger picture.

    Simon Jester (4359b7)

  9. @8

    What is your idea of a “good” lineup between Team R and Team D for POTUS?

    GOP:
    DeSantis
    Halley
    Youngkin
    Kemp

    Democrats:
    Polis
    Priztker

    Notice a theme among this list?

    whembly (477db6)

  10. it’s Putin who wins with this strategy

    Anyone who understand the dynamics of a family with an abusive parent knows how this works. It’s called “walking on eggshells.” It’s a form of appeasement.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  11. <blockquote>What is your idea of a “good” lineup between Team R and Team D for POTUS?

    For me, it centers on the ability to compromise and find common ground, while also having clear limits on key issues. I distrust people who are inflexible and/or ideological, but I want some predictability. On abortion, for example, I’d want someone who wants strict limits on abortion but is willing to discuss what those limits might be. I also distrust grandstanders.

    Of this year’s contenders and potential contenders:

    GOP: Haley, Christie, maybe Hutchinson although he proved to be a poor campaigner. I’d like to say Youngkin, but I don’t know enough about him.

    Dem: Only Andy Beshear comes to mind. The Democrats don’t have a deep bench, as they showed when they chose Biden in 2020.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  12. Add Kemp to my GOP list.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  13. whembly (477db6) — 7/12/2024 @ 7:55 am

    Erlinger v. US is an interpretation of the Armed Career Criminal Act, not a statement of new general principles:

    The Fifth and Sixth Amendments require a unanimous jury to make the determination beyond a reasonable doubt that a defendant’s past offenses were committed on separate occasions for purposes of the Armed Career Criminal Act.

    It does not overturn Schad v. Arizona, which allows such verdicts as in New York:

    ………….the real question here is whether it was constitutionally acceptable to permit the jury to reach one verdict based on any combination of the alternative findings.

    The long-established rule that a jury need not agree on which overt act, among several, was the means by which a crime was committed provides a useful analogy. ……..

    In fact, Schad isn’t mentioned anywhere in the Erlinger opinions.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  14. whembly (477db6) — 7/12/2024 @ 7:55 am

    More specifically, Justice Merchan was required to follow New York law as interpreted by the New York courts.

    Justice Merchan instructed the jury that it had to find unanimously and beyond a reasonable doubt the “elements” of the § 175.10 offense and the intent to participate in the § 17-152 conspiracy. Consistent with a standard distinction between elements of a crime and the “means” for satisfying those elements, he instructed that—although the jury needed to unanimously find the existence of unlawful means to promote Trump’s presidential candidacy—it didn’t need unanimous agreement on what those means were.
    ……………
    (T)he defense (will not) be able to make much of the fact that Trump was never convicted of a § 17-152 conspiracy (the object offense). ………. In People v. Taveras, the New York Court of Appeals held that “falsifying business records … is elevated to a first-degree offense on the basis of an enhanced intent requirement … not any additional actus reus element.”

    And here’s People v. Thompson, an appellate decision by the court that will hear Trump’s first appeal: “The People were not required to establish that [the] defendant committed, or was convicted of, the crime he intended to conceal[.]” There’s nothing Kafkaesque about Justice Merchan’s determination that the statute means what it says—namely, that there need only be an “intent” to commit or conceal some other criminality, not a conviction for a completed crime………..
    ……………

    Source . Paragraph breaks added.

    More generally, I don’t think Justice Merchan will be “humiliated” if the jury verdict is overturned. If a judge was humiliated every time a decision they made was overturned, they should get another job. Unlike baseball pitchers, their careers aren’t based on a win-loss record.

    We’ll find out in 2-3 years.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  15. Kasparov, as usual, has it right:

    iterally no one actually believes the escalation myth. It’s an excuse for cowardice, a way to avoid decisions and also to kill Ukrainian civilians. You cannot end Russia’s war of aggression without winning it. Delaying Ukrainian victory simply extends the war.

    Dana (c01ea1)

  16. Kasparov is right of course. Which is why NATO should have intervened in 2022, if not 2014, at least with air power and missile defense. Let Putin worry about what happens if he kills Americans.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  17. But President Muffley is a cautious man, trying to steal second with his foot on first.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  18. ICYMI: NATO members basically agreed that support for Ukraine would survive Donald Trump.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  19. As NATO

    a) has no armed forces of its own, relying on the member nations to provide them; and

    b) is governed by consensus, so that one member (like Hungary) can veto any actions by the alliance, it is unlikely NATO itself will ever become directly involved in Ukraine. It would be up to individual members to make that decision.

    But I agree the US should have fully committed itself, including ground troops, once the Russians Army crossed into Ukraine.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  20. ICYMI: NATO members basically agreed that support for Ukraine would survive Donald Trump.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/12/2024 @ 12:12 pm

    That doesn’t mean that the US will continue to provide weapons (or other funding) to Ukraine. The most recent Ukraine aid package is probably the last.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  21. Anyone who understand the dynamics of a family with an abusive parent knows how this works. It’s called “walking on eggshells.” It’s a form of appeasement.

    Yes, for all of this tough-guy playacting and posturing, Joe Biden is even more of a pushover than his former boss was. The man has sadly confused caution with cowardice, and Putin, Xi, Khamenei, and every other malevolent actor on the planet has figured this out.

    JVW (b02843)

  22. Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/12/2024 @ 12:12 pm

    I would expect a Trump Administration to veto any further NATO involvement with Ukraine.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  23. And I would expect the Trump Administration to attempt to withdraw from NATO dispute Congressional restrictions for doing so. The ban is unenforceable, and interferes with the President’s constitutional authority to conduct foreign affairs.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  24. dispute=despite

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  25. But I agree the US should have fully committed itself, including ground troops, once the Russians Army crossed into Ukraine.

    Then what is the point of being a NATO member if countries like the U.S. will send their own sons and daughters to fight and die for you? I want to see Russia lose too, but this affects Europe far more than it does the U.S. So let’s first get the French, German, Dutch, Belgian, Italian, Lithuanian, Albanian, Bulgarian, Czech, Estonian, Finnish, Latvian, and Romanian militaries to send their sons and daughters into battle.

    JVW (b02843)

  26. JVW (b02843) — 7/12/2024 @ 12:26 pm

    I. agree, but the American military is larger and better equipped than all of the other NATI militaries combine d. Without US participation, committing only the European forces wouldn’t accomplish the mission. For example, only the US has aircraft that can attack Russian cities.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  27. SpaceX Falcon 9 mission suffers first failure since 2016. The second stage failed and left 20 Starlink satellites in the wrong orbit. It is believed that the satellites will soon reenter and that there is no dangerous debris.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  28. @25

    But I agree the US should have fully committed itself, including ground troops, once the Russians Army crossed into Ukraine.

    Then what is the point of being a NATO member if countries like the U.S. will send their own sons and daughters to fight and die for you? I want to see Russia lose too, but this affects Europe far more than it does the U.S. So let’s first get the French, German, Dutch, Belgian, Italian, Lithuanian, Albanian, Bulgarian, Czech, Estonian, Finnish, Latvian, and Romanian militaries to send their sons and daughters into battle.

    JVW (b02843) — 7/12/2024 @ 12:26 pm

    This.

    Let Europe take the lead on this front. The european NATO nations has assets to kick Russia out of Ukraine.

    It’s cowardice that is stopping them… and, if they’re waiting for US to send their own sons, daughters and treasures to do it for them? If that’s the case, I’d rather not do it.

    whembly (477db6)

  29. For example, only the US has aircraft that can attack Russian cities.

    Jeeze, now instead of sending in troops to bolster Ukrainian defenses and deter Russia you are going to be bombing Russian cities? So it’s just full-blown war or nothing with you?

    What do you think the polling would be on “U.S. troops should be sent to fight and die for Ukrainian sovereignty”? I’m guess less than 20%.

    JVW (b02843)

  30. The european NATO nations has assets to kick Russia out of Ukraine.

    As I said, the Europeans don’t have the strategic capability to attack the Russian homeland like the US does. They can’t take the war to Russia like the Russians have taken it to Ukraine-missile attacks on civilian targets, for example. The US does have that capability: B-52, B-1, and B-2 bombers, or Tomahawk cruise missiles from submarines.

    Russia needs to feel same pain that Ukraine has.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  31. Strictly speaking, NATO does not require unanimous agreement on anything other than accession. It has been the practice in the past, and when a smaller NATO was facing the Warsaw Pact the decision process was pretty simple. Now, however, after the actions recently by Hungary and Turkey (and with the likely return of Donald Trump), the NATO members seek a less-fraught agreement. The danger of delay or veto by a Quisling in the face of Russian aggression needs to be neutralized.

    Under the terms of NATO’s founding document, the 1949 Washington Treaty, admission of new members to the Alliance is based on the unanimous consent of the existing members. This consensus principle has over time evolved into a norm governing how NATO makes decisions. As the NATO website notes: “Consensus decision-making is a fundamental principle. It has been accepted as the sole basis for decision-making in NATO since the creation of the Alliance in 1949.” The fact is, however, that the principle, except in the case of accession, is not enshrined or codified in any Alliance document. What worked for the Alliance earlier, when all of its members were like-minded states facing an overwhelming military challenge and the memories of World War II were fresh in the minds of both publics and leaders, may not be fit for purpose today with a broader and much more diverse membership….

    The behavior and politics of Erdoğan and Orbán indicate that the time has come to revise the consensus model in critical Article 5 situations, particularly in light of the fact that Russia has withstood Western sanctions in better shape than many had anticipated. It has sought munitions and drones from North Korea and Iran and has reconstituted its domestic defense industry to a remarkable degree. Nearly 40 percent of the Russian government budget is now devoted to defense and law enforcement, and Russia will likely be able to replenish its losses in Ukraine more rapidly than many observers anticipated even a few months ago. Against that backdrop, it is no wonder that NATO military leaders have expressed their concern that Putin may attack one or more members of the Alliance within the next three to five years.

    At the upcoming Washington summit, NATO members should therefore discuss how best to introduce a majority voting procedure. This would make it impossible for one member state to serve Russia’s interests by insisting on the consensus principle, thereby paralyzing the Alliance’s ability to defend an ally from Russian aggression. There are various ways of approaching the issue, and a variety of possible alternative solutions, some of which have already been explored.

    Given the threatening international backdrop and the need to balance the cohesion of a larger Alliance with the ability to make rapid and resolute decisions, the time has come for the US administration and the UK government to foster a robust debate at the summit about such solutions. Allies need to decide how to eliminate the risk that, in a grave crisis, a spoiler state could prevent NATO from invoking Article 5. At stake is nothing less than the core Alliance commitment to collective defense.

    https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/natos-decision-process-has-an-achilles-heel/

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  32. @13

    It does not overturn Schad v. Arizona, which allows such verdicts as in New York:

    ………….the real question here is whether it was constitutionally acceptable to permit the jury to reach one verdict based on any combination of the alternative findings.

    The long-established rule that a jury need not agree on which overt act, among several, was the means by which a crime was committed provides a useful analogy. ……..

    In fact, Schad isn’t mentioned anywhere in the Erlinger opinions.

    Rip Murdock (14415d) — 7/12/2024 @ 9:24 am

    I think that Schad covers something different that Erlinger.

    Erlinger demands that any fact that has the effect of increasing the range of a defendant’s punishment must be found by a unanimous jury beyond a reasonable doubt.

    Dan McLaughlin breaks it down here:
    https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/a-better-day-for-trump-than-for-hunter-biden-at-the-court/

    The Court in Erlinger held that the Constitution required, before applying a sentencing enhancement under the Armed Career Criminal Act, that a jury unanimously find the sentence-enhancing conditions of the statute: that Erlinger’s three predicate convictions were “committed on occasions different from one another.” That could bolster Trump’s argument in his case that New York violated the same constitutional rights by allowing a jury to convict him without being unanimous as to what “other crime” he was charged with concealing in order to elevate his misdemeanor conviction to a felony.

    You seems to argue that NY law currently allows for it (it does appears so). But, with the highest court’s Erlinger decision, I don’t see how that NY law and this case survives Erlinger.

    But, you’re right, we won’t truly know the outcome 2-3 years from now.

    whembly (477db6)

  33. What do you think the polling would be on “U.S. troops should be sent to fight and die for Ukrainian sovereignty”? I’m guess less than 20%.

    JVW (b02843) — 7/12/2024 @ 12:51 pm

    That’s about where support for Ukraine is now.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  34. I’m perhaps being a bit testy here, Rip, and I apologize for that. But it seems like the whole point of having neighboring nations like Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, etc. sending troops to bolster Ukraine’s defense is that it would have sent a powerful message to Putin. Clearly his army can barely handle holding on to land they have already captured, so it seems very unlikely that even he would have dared a multi-front war with these nations. So if he truly is the madman that Biden fears he is, he would have employed nuclear weapons. Or else perhaps he would have withdrawn his troops and learned a valuable lesson.

    But again, that should have been up to Russia’s immediate neighbors (supported behind the scenes by the rest of NATO, naturally). But not by the U.S. military.

    JVW (b02843)

  35. Russia needs to feel same pain that Ukraine has.

    No, Russia needs to be ejected from Ukraine. There are other things that “would be nice” but the critical thing is to restore Ukraine’s sovereignty. Poland, Germany and the US contingent in those two countries would be sufficient.

    As I said NATO needed to take action back when. The NATO Charter does not require this to be unanimous and while custom says it is, customs can change.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  36. You seems to argue that NY law currently allows for it (it does appears so). But, with the highest court’s Erlinger decision, I don’t see how that NY law and this case survives Erlinger.

    ER longer is irrelevant because it involved the statutory interpretation of a specific federal law. Had it overruled Schad I would agree with you, but it didn’t.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  37. @30

    The european NATO nations has assets to kick Russia out of Ukraine.

    As I said, the Europeans don’t have the strategic capability to attack the Russian homeland like the US does. They can’t take the war to Russia like the Russians have taken it to Ukraine-missile attacks on civilian targets, for example. The US does have that capability: B-52, B-1, and B-2 bombers, or Tomahawk cruise missiles from submarines.

    Russia needs to feel same pain that Ukraine has.

    Rip Murdock (14415d) — 7/12/2024 @ 12:52 pm

    And I’m telling you, european NATO nations has assets to do so.

    Yes, not as good as what US could, but they’re still formidable.

    whembly (477db6)

  38. @34

    But again, that should have been up to Russia’s immediate neighbors (supported behind the scenes by the rest of NATO, naturally). But not by the U.S. military.

    JVW (b02843) — 7/12/2024 @ 12:55 pm

    I can’t echo JVW enough…all of this. ^^^^

    whembly (477db6)

  39. @36

    ER longer is irrelevant because it involved the statutory interpretation of a specific federal law. Had it overruled Schad I would agree with you, but it didn’t.

    Rip Murdock (14415d) — 7/12/2024 @ 12:57 pm

    Schad was NOT before the court for them to clarify.

    But when courts rule that any increase in the defendant’s punishment in case, which is EXACTLY what this NY Bragg’s case is… the enhancement element must be found by a unanimous jury.

    So. No. Schad is not applicable and SCOTUS need not to explicitly state “Schad is done”. Erlinger is now the driving precedent and that framework is not limited into the four corners of that particular federal statute.

    Ignoring it is going to invite a slapdown on future appeal.

    whembly (477db6)

  40. As I said NATO needed to take action back when. The NATO Charter does not require this to be unanimous and while custom says it is, customs can change.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/12/2024 @ 12:56 pm

    The North Atlantic Council is the principal political decision-making body within NATO. It oversees the political and military process relating to security issues affecting the whole Alliance. It brings together representatives of each member country to discuss policy or operational questions requiring collective decisions, providing a forum for wide-ranging consultation between members on all issues affecting their peace and security.
    ………. …
    Decisions are agreed upon on the basis of unanimity and common accord. There is no voting or decision by majority. This means that policies decided upon by the NAC are supported by and are the expression of the collective will of all the sovereign states that are members of the Alliance and are accepted by all of them. All members have an equal right to express their views and share in the consensus on which decisions are based.

    Source

    More

    Consensus decision-making is a fundamental principle. It has been accepted as the sole basis for decision-making in NATO since the creation of the Alliance in 1949.

    Consensus decision-making means that there is no voting at NATO. Consultations take place until a decision that is acceptable to all is reached. Sometimes member countries agree to disagree on an issue. In general, this negotiation process is rapid, since members consult each other on a regular basis and therefore often know and understand each other’s positions in advance.
    ……….
    The principle of consensus decision-making applies throughout NATO – from the North Atlantic Council, the Alliance’s principal political decision-making body, all the way down through its subordinate committees and structures.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  41. And I’m telling you, european NATO nations has assets to do so.

    Yes, not as good as what US could, but they’re still formidable.

    Europe has far more power in Europe than the United States has in Europe.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  42. Seems like a suitable answer to the question about nations such as Turkey and Hungary having presumptive veto power over NATO objectives is to only allow veto power from “qualifying” nations; i.e. those who have met the 2% of GDP military expenditures threshold. So as of now, that would leave out Albania, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Czech Republic, Croatia, Germany, Iceland, Italy, Luxembourg, Montenegro, Netherlands, North Macedonia, Norway, Portugal, Romania, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, and Turkey. Of course that does leave in Hungary, who hit the 2% mark this past year, but at least you would have an alliance where failing to keep up your part of the pact would have significant repercussions.

    JVW (b02843)

  43. Reformatted:

    As I said NATO needed to take action back when. The NATO Charter does not require this to be unanimous and while custom says it is, customs can change.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/12/2024 @ 12:56 pm

    I doubt that NATO members would find the consensus to make a change of something that is so deeply ingrained:

    The North Atlantic Council is the principal political decision-making body within NATO. It oversees the political and military process relating to security issues affecting the whole Alliance. It brings together representatives of each member country to discuss policy or operational questions requiring collective decisions, providing a forum for wide-ranging consultation between members on all issues affecting their peace and security.
    ………. …
    Decisions are agreed upon on the basis of unanimity and common accord. There is no voting or decision by majority. This means that policies decided upon by the NAC are supported by and are the expression of the collective will of all the sovereign states that are members of the Alliance and are accepted by all of them. All members have an equal right to express their views and share in the consensus on which decisions are based.

    And:

    Consensus decision-making is a fundamental principle. It has been accepted as the sole basis for decision-making in NATO since the creation of the Alliance in 1949.

    Consensus decision-making means that there is no voting at NATO. Consultations take place until a decision that is acceptable to all is reached. Sometimes member countries agree to disagree on an issue. In general, this negotiation process is rapid, since members consult each other on a regular basis and therefore often know and understand each other’s positions in advance.
    ……….
    The principle of consensus decision-making applies throughout NATO – from the North Atlantic Council, the Alliance’s principal political decision-making body, all the way down through its subordinate committees and structures.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  44. Rip, yes, consensus is the custom. But consensus that worked with 10 members doesn’t work with 30. You get asshats demanding transactional benefits. If Orban can stop NATO from defending Poland, or Turkey can stop them from defending Greece, what the F good is NATO?

    When push comes to shove, that gentleman’s agreement will be ignored. They are already talking about a voting system.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  45. SCOTUS need not to explicitly state “Schad is done”.

    Actually that is what exactly happens when a case is overruled so it is clear to the lower courts. If you look at any case this past term where the court has overruled a prior precedent, that fact is clearly stated.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  46. @42: It can be simpler than that. Requiring a 3/4ths vote and allowing dissenters to opt out of the operation would suffice. Draftees are never good soldiers.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  47. Actually that is what exactly happens when a case is overruled so it is clear to the lower court

    Sometimes they just nibble it to death.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  48. Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/12/2024 @ 1:15 pm

    As usual, you (and others) want the world to be different from what it is, and expect a deus ex machina event to solve the problem, without any evidence it’s going to happen.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  49. I linked to evidence of serious people talking about getting rid of unanimous consent in the face of obstruction and blackmail.

    Again, if Russia invaded Poland and Orban vetoed action, NATO would have two (and only two) choices.

    1. Ignore Orban
    2. Fail

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  50. The fact that you don’t want to consider anything past your very narrow blinders doesn’t mean that evidence doesn’t exist.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  51. It can be simpler than that. Requiring a 3/4ths vote and allowing dissenters to opt out of the operation would suffice. Draftees are never good soldiers.

    My ulterior motive here is that there needs to be some incentive — and, frankly, carrots have failed so it’s now time for sticks — for nations to live up to that 2%. Trump in his usual brusque manner is telling them that they won’t be defended when the time comes. To me, that’s a bit harsh and it’s also kind of unlikely. But if they suddenly don’t have as much influence in negotiations, maybe they would determine that having that influence is important enough for them to meet their obligations.

    Countries like Germany, Italy, and Spain have too much of their financial well-being invested in a quiet and peaceful Europe to back out of their NATO obligations should a member nation be attacked, so even if they lose power within the alliance I don’t think they would abandon. A nation like Hungary might indeed choose not to come to the military aid of Poland during a Russian invasion, but I would imagine based upon how they have handled Ukraine that they would be a key ally in dealing with displaced Polish citizens and ensuring they are fed and sheltered. Really, the strength of NATO is that every nation has something to lose by disassociating themselves from the alliance. Except maybe Turkey, who is more and more turning into a lost cause.

    JVW (b02843)

  52. Jeeze, now instead of sending in troops to bolster Ukrainian defenses and deter Russia you are going to be bombing Russian cities? So it’s just full-blown war or nothing with you?

    If NATO member troops entered the Ukraine War that will happen anyway. Do you really think the fighting would be contained to Ukraine? As combatants, NATO countries would be subject to Russian attacks.

    As we have seen so far with NATO support for Ukraine, half measures haven’t succeeded. In order to achieve the goal of removing Russia from Ukraine, NATO (and its members) will need to get their hands dirty.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  53. Trump in his usual brusque manner is telling them that they won’t be defended when the time comes. To me, that’s a bit harsh and it’s also kind unlikely.

    Actually I find it very likely that Trump wouldn’t defend our NATO allies at all. As I said above, the Congressional prohibition on NATO withdrawal is unenforceable and unconstitutional.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  54. As combatants, NATO countries would be subject to Russian attacks.

    I’m talking about if NATO member troops entered Ukraine, specifically to face down Russian troops. I wasn’t referring to any hypothetical attacks of NATO troops across the Russian border. And again, Putin would be faced with the idea of having to open up a multi-front war, should he decide to attack a NATO member state. I think even he might understand that his military lacks that capability.

    JVW (b02843)

  55. Actually I find it very likely that Trump wouldn’t defend our NATO allies at all.

    “I won’t defend any member nation who doesn’t spend 2% of GDP on defense” strikes me as equivalent to “I will build a wall and make Mexico pay for it,” “I will balance the budget in three years while cutting taxes,” “I will repeal Obamacare and replace it with something way better,” and so many other Trump fables that are just pulled from his rear-end and aren’t at all serious.

    JVW (b02843)

  56. JVW, I generally agree with you on taking anything Trump says as bluster, but the difference between the three examples you gave “I will do X” and this one “I won’t do Y” is that incompetence and laziness absolutely can make this one happen whereas the others needed magic.

    Nate (cfb326)

  57. JVW (b02843) — 7/12/2024 @ 1:50 pm

    We’ll see what happens if push comes to shove in Europe.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  58. for nations to live up to that 2%.

    Wasn’t that the problem they tell us with the Articles of Confederation in the United States or they’re talking about what they did maybe during the Revolutionary War.

    Commitments like that never work. It’s really somethin they got as close to all the members of NATO doing it as they did.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  59. I’m talking about if NATO member troops entered Ukraine, specifically to face down Russian troops.

    So was I. Do you think Putin will see the distinction? Any European country that sends troops to Ukraine to kill Russians will make itself a legitimate target for Russian retaliation.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  60. Putin would be faced with the idea of having to open up a multi-front war, should he decide to attack a NATO member state. I think even he might understand that his military lacks that capability.

    I don’t think there will be any “multi front” war. Putin wouldn’t need to invade NATO Europe, he would just need to lob a few dozen missiles at cities and their governments will get the message.

    Again I don’t have a warm and fuzzy feeling that a Trump Administration would defend Europe. They might decide to sit this one out.

    And Putin certainly has the capability, both at the strategic and tactical level.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  61. They were all talking yesterday about a bill passed by the House requiting peole yo ptove their citizenship in person in order to vote.

    While it is true that used to be the case years ago when people had to produce either a birth certificate or citizenship papers (neither of with there was an great reason to forge) the Republicans are being disingenuous here. Opposition is not because Dems want to see many ineligible voters. Attempts to require this have failed in every state.

    Cons:

    1) It is unconstitutional. A state criterion of eligibility for voting for Congress is the same as that for the most numerous branch of the satte legislature and that does not have to be citizenship although every state does require it the way every state maintains public schools.

    That goes even more so for presidential electors where a state can do absolutely what it wants.

    2) People will not bother

    4) Citizenship could be challenged even with presentation of a birth certificate.

    5) It is an unfunded mandate.

    6) Some people would choose to apply for passports increasing processing delays.

    7) It is not a problem in real life despite poll results claiming it is. (5% to 10% of people wil answer yes to anything)

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  62. 3) SO it is really an attempt to depress turnout.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  63. Putin does not have the sense that Stalin did, or Peter the Great or Catherine the Great or Alexander I, who all stopped wars that weren’t going well. (Stalin made peace with Finland in 1940 and again in 1955 and earlier this happened with Lenin.)

    But maybe the reason was the gold standard (Stalin believed in the gold standard)

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  64. I don’t think there will be any “multi front” war. Putin wouldn’t need to invade NATO Europe, he would just need to lob a few dozen missiles at cities and their governments will get the message.

    Again, I think that Putin gets a lot of mileage by convincing Westerners that he is a madman with nothing to lose, but I think that behind that bluster there just may be someone who understands the limitations of what Russia can accomplish. That is most certainly true after this Ukraine fiasco, but I think he might have even had an inkling of it beforehand.

    JVW (b02843)

  65. Tennessee voter chief sends out letters to 14,750 mostly black voters to prove their citizenship or threaten them if they vote. (guardian)

    asset (83ee4c)

  66. Item one I bring up child molesting preachers all the time and get criticized for it.

    asset (83ee4c)

  67. Remember Biden’s “minor incursion” remark in 2022?

    https://www.npr.org/2022/01/20/1074466148/biden-russia-ukraine-minor-incursion

    “I think what you’re going to see is that Russia will be held accountable if it invades. And it depends on what it does. It’s one thing if it’s a minor incursion and then we end up having a fight about what to do and not do.”

    And Zelenskyy’s reaction to it?

    They immediately raised alarms at home — and overseas. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said on Twitter that there was no such thing as “minor incursions.”

    The uproar left White House officials spending the one-year anniversary of Biden’s time in office doing a lot of damage control.

    It’s very possible that Biden’s senescence contributed to this very damaging remark (damaging because it gave Putin insight into Biden’s thinking).

    But wait, it gets better.

    Shortly after Biden wrapped up his press conference, his press secretary Jen Psaki issued a statement trying to explain what he meant:

    “If any Russian military forces move across the Ukrainian border, that’s a renewed invasion, and it will be met with a swift, severe, and united response from the United States and our allies.”

    Sounds rather strong, right? But then, the following day, Biden further clarified.

    Shortly after Biden wrapped up his press conference, his press secretary Jen Psaki issued a statement trying to explain what he meant:

    “If any — any — assembled Russian units move across the Ukrainian border, that is an invasion,” Biden said, adding that it would result in a “severe and coordinated economic response” that he has discussed with allies.

    In the space of two days, the Biden administration went from intimating that a minor incursion was no big deal to “swift, severe, and united response from the United States and our allies” (no indication as to what form, so military was possible) to “severe and coordinated economic response” (no military).

    Putin had to be laughing at the clusterf*ckery of it all.

    We should have given Ukraine every weapon it wanted at the outset (short of nukes), and let them hit any place in Russia. Half-measures and splitting the difference might work in domestic politics, which Biden is steeped in because of all those years in the Senate, but not in war.

    norcal (9f0ef7)

  68. Strike that duplicative “Shortly after Biden” sentence.

    My bad.

    norcal (9f0ef7)

  69. Actually I find it very likely that Trump wouldn’t defend our NATO allies at all. As I said above, the Congressional prohibition on NATO withdrawal is unenforceable and unconstitutional.

    I thought it was a treaty. Abrogating a treaty should take more than presidential whim.

    In Goldwater v Carter, the Court dismissed Goldwater’s objection to Carter terminating the mutual defense treaty with Taiwan, but no clear reason was given other than the current case was political.

    Justices Lewis Powell and William Rehnquist issued two separate concurring opinions on the case. Rehnquist claimed that the issue concerned how foreign affairs were conducted between Congress and the President, and was essentially political, not judicial; therefore, it was not eligible to be heard by the court. Powell, while agreeing that the case did not merit judicial review, believed that the issue itself, the powers of the President to break treaties without congressional approval, would have been arguable had Congress issued a formal opposition through a resolution to the termination of the treaty. (The Senate had drafted such a resolution, but not voted upon it.) This would have turned the case into a constitutional debate between the executive powers granted to the President and the legislative powers granted to Congress.

    As the case stood, however, it was simply a dispute among unsettled, competing political forces within the legislative and executive branches of government, and hence still political in nature due to the lack of majority or supermajority vote in the Senate speaking officially as a constitutional institution. Today, the case is considered a textbook example of the political question doctrine in U.S. constitutional law.

    In the case of NATO there is an actual LAW, passed and signed, restricting the power of the president to exert plenary power in withdrawing from the treaty without either 2/3rds of the Senate concurring or the passage of a repeal of the restriction.

    Such an attempt would go to the Supreme Court, but might also lead to an impeachment (much like Johnson’s firing of Secretary Stanton led to his impeachment and trial in 1868.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  70. If NATO member troops entered the Ukraine War that will happen anyway. Do you really think the fighting would be contained to Ukraine?

    Why would the fighting continue? Perhaps Putin would want to avoid a sure defeat.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  71. “I won’t defend any member nation who doesn’t spend 2% of GDP on defense”

    And yet, somehow, 20 or so member states now spend that much or more. I have no problem with a President pounding the table when he feels the USA is being treated like a chump.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  72. I don’t think there will be any “multi front” war. Putin wouldn’t need to invade NATO Europe, he would just need to lob a few dozen missiles at cities and their governments will get the message.

    I am constantly amazed by this. WE must be verrrrry careful, lest we upset the scary Putin. If he’s upset he’ll do wild stuff that we are treaty-bound to go to war over.

    Why does he not fear US?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  73. In the case of NATO there is an actual LAW, passed and signed, restricting the power of the president to exert plenary power in withdrawing from the treaty without either 2/3rds of the Senate concurring or the passage of a repeal of the restriction.

    I would expect to say the courts to say one of the following (not in any particular order):

    1) no one has standing to challenge the President’s decision;

    2) This is a dispute between Congress and the President and therefore a non-justiciable political question; and/or

    3) The law is an unconstitutional infringement on the President’s foreign and commander in chief powers.

    Congress has been known to exceed its authority and pass unconstitutional laws. Congress cannot regulate a President’s plenary constitutional authority. I doubt this Supreme Court (assuming it gets that far) would find in favor of Congress in this case.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  74. In any conventional war with NATO (or the US alone, or for that matter, with Germany, Poland and France alone) Russia loses. If he uses a nuke, well, he doesn’t win that either.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  75. Rip, the last time that came up there was no law or resolution, and some justices felt that would change things. There is also impeachment which addresses political questions adequately. If you think that Trump could not be impeached over leaving NATO, I’m pretty sure you’re wrong and it wouldn’t be close. 80-20 or some such.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  76. Why does he not fear US?

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/12/2024 @ 3:09 pm

    Actually I think Putin does fear us, since he has not attacked NATO, even though NATO countries are providing Ukraine with weapons and targeting intelligence. Russia hasn’ attacked ships or cargo planes delivering weapons, though I’m sure they are being tracked.

    Once NATO troops enter the war directly and start killing Russians it will become a whole new ball game.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  77. If you think that Trump could not be impeached over leaving NATO, I’m pretty sure you’re wrong and it wouldn’t be close. 80-20 or some such.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/12/2024 @ 3:18 pm

    LOL! He may be impeached (highly unlikely), but he certainly won’t be convicted. I don’t see this as an issue that Republicans would dump their President over-they may actually agree with him.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  78. If you think that Trump could not be impeached over leaving NATO, I’m pretty sure you’re wrong and it wouldn’t be close. 80-20 or some such.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/12/2024 @ 3:18 pm

    If the Republicans wouldn’t impeach or convict Trump over January 6th, he’d never be impeached over a foreign policy issue.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  79. Rip Murdock (14415d) — 7/12/2024 @ 3:33 pm

    Or anything else.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  80. Michael Ramirez reminds us how weak the Democratic bench, with this example:

    Considering how big and rich the state is, you’d think California Democrats could find some one better than Newsom.

    Jim Miller (dfe272)

  81. If the Republicans wouldn’t impeach or convict Trump over January 6th, he’d never be impeached over a foreign policy issue.

    NATO is something they care about, as congressional power and the law they passed

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  82. Americans are divided on aid to Ukraine:

    Two years after Russia invaded Ukraine, Americans are divided over whether the United States’ support for Ukraine is sufficient. Still, a majority continues to believe that helping reclaim Ukrainian territory is worth the effort, however long it may take. Partisans hold drastically different views on the subject, with Democrats much more supportive than Republicans of helping Ukraine. This has played out among congressional Republicans as U.S. aid for Ukraine has been delayed in the House.

    Since opinion on foreign policy so often follows political leaders, it is nearly certain that the Loser’s efforts to support Putin and undermine Ukraine are responsible for much of that partisan difference.

    Granted, Biden could have done better, too.

    Jim Miller (dfe272)

  83. Love the cartoon, Jim!

    I don’t think Newsom will run until 2028. He has another couple of years in his term to get his act together. Otherwise, franchising California to the other states is a non-starter.

    I suspect one of the reasons that Nevada is now leaning towards Trump is all of the Californians who fled the state for Nevada, in addition to all of the native Nevadans who look across the Sierras in horror. (Sadly, many of these people see politics as a choice between the lefty, Newsom, and the righty, Trump, not realizing that true conservatives care for neither).

    norcal (9f0ef7)

  84. Jim Miller (dfe272) — 7/12/2024 @ 4:00 pm

    More Americans would support Ukraine if Biden hadn’t half-assed his way into a stalemate. You’re either fully invested or you aren’t, Joe. You can’t have it both ways.

    norcal (9f0ef7)

  85. As it happens, I glanced at an article in the Economist this morning with some poll results from Russia (done by Field) on Putin’s invasion of Ukraine. Briefly, more Russians now favor peace than war, and that is especially true for poorer Russians. They especially object to any further conscription.

    Considering how much control Putin has over communication in Russia, that is heartening.

    Maybe next Friday, I’ll take some notes on the article. (I saw it in the local library, which I try to visit every Friday.)

    Jim Miller (dfe272)

  86. I’m entertained by the forever optimism that some day there will be some line that Republicans in Congress enforce against Trump.

    I don’t believe it. If he withdraws from NATO, his fan boys will spin it as “why should we spend our blood and money defending the woke Europeans who won’t even pay their bills and who are stirring up trouble with Russia anyway?” and enough people will buy into that that Congress will do *nothing*.

    aphrael (1797ab)

  87. I’m entertained by the forever optimism that some day there will be some line that Republicans in Congress enforce against Trump.

    I don’t believe it. If he withdraws from NATO, his fan boys will spin it as “why should we spend our blood and money defending the woke Europeans who won’t even pay their bills and who are stirring up trouble with Russia anyway?” and enough people will buy into that that Congress will do *nothing*.

    aphrael (1797ab) — 7/12/2024 @ 4:11 pm

    I’m afraid you are correct. Oh, there will be some Republicans who push back, but enough to get to two-thirds? Just look at the parade of pussies who knuckled under to Trump: Cruz, Rubio, Vance, Graham, Stefanik and numerous others.

    norcal (9f0ef7)

  88. If the Republicans wouldn’t impeach or convict Trump over January 6th, he’d never be impeached over a foreign policy issue.

    NATO is something they care about, as congressional power and the law they passed

    As I have pointed out, its constitutionality is doubtful at best.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  89. Rip Murdock (14415d) — 7/12/2024 @ 3:14 pm

    There have been a few legal challenges to treaty withdrawals, all were dismissed.

    For example:

    In December 1978, Senator Barry Goldwater and fourteen other senators filed a lawsuit against President Jimmy Carter to challenge his decision to unilaterally end the U.S.-Taiwan Mutual Defense Treaty in order to normalize U.S. relations with the People’s Republic of China. The following year, the Supreme Court—without hearing oral arguments—sent it back to the lower courts for dismissal, with Chief Justice William Rehnquist arguing for the majority that the case was “nonjusticiable.”

    In June 2002, then-Congressman Dennis Kucinich and thirty additional members of Congress filed a lawsuit against President Bush to prevent the withdrawal from the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty, similarly arguing that the President could not terminate the treaty without congressional consent. The U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia ended up dismissing the lawsuit.

    More recently, the Trump Administration in 2021 ignored a Congressionally mandated notification requirement in the FY 2020 National Defense Authorization Act to leave the Open Skies Treaty after the DOJ’s Office of Legal Counsel determined it was unconstitutional as it “interferes with the President’s exclusive authority to execute treaties and to conduct diplomacy.”

    I expect the same fates for the current restriction on the President’s authority to leave NATO.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  90. Source for paragraphs quoted in post 90.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  91. Dana

    Not the same problem.

    Trump is on a vigorous campaign tour, many towns back to back and many towns ahead, many people to know and remember. Trump doesn’t use notes. Biden spends a extraordinary amounts of time sequestered with no one around but a few, emerges from the cocoon and flubs it. Biden uses notes, teleprompters, earpiece at times, has Jill telling him what to do and still blows it.

    It is an unfair comparison- the two things are only alike in that a name and/or place is forgotten. Trump is processing tremendous volumes of people, places and things at a very fast pace making a few mistakes. Biden is processing minimal amounts at one of the slowest paces in the history of the Presidency and his verbal mistakes are very frequent- what is worse are his non verbal glitches where he turns and shakes imaginary hands, turns and half salutes a bunch of flags

    steveg (86ebb5)

  92. Rip,

    I pointed out Goldwater v Caters upthread, linked to the summary and pointed out that it was DIFFERENT. The Congress had not claimed the power to block the withdrawal. Now, it has and one of the two opinions concurring in the judgement said such a case WOULD be different since it would involve a constitutional conflict.

    I’m gonna bet that the ABM treaty also had no such congressional claim. The fact it was Kucinich tells me it was stupid.

    A law ordering the president to act on something is maybe similar (I doubt it), but for the DOJ to rule in favor of the Executive is hardly decisive. It’s like having your lawyer agree with you.

    The Senate voted 65-28 to deny the president the power to withdraw from NATO, just last year. Four Republicans and 3 Democrats not voting. This shows considerable support for NATO. In the House several votes for NATO were overwhelming (350-85 or thereabouts). A president who tried to withdraw would have significant political opposition, and a court case to win.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  93. As for who has standing, when one branch of government claims a power and another branch also claims it, both have standing.

    Article II, Section 2, inn part:

    [The President] shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls…

    If the Senate claims it has the power to object to withdrawing, it has a better case than giving the President immunity has.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  94. As I have pointed out, its constitutionality is doubtful at best.

    And as I have pointed out, you are peddling bullsh1t.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  95. The “Hello Cleveland” joke in Spinal Tap was funny because it was spot on. They wander around backstage lost hollering “Hello Cleveland”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeNfw6XLI10

    From an article called “Forgive the Rock Star Who Gets Your City’s Name Wrong”
    Trump is a Rock Star on tour. Biden is not

    Emily Barker who plays smaller clubs says
    “…as a performer, it’s one of your worst nightmares and something I’ve almost done numerous times. I am forever saying, “Hello (insert city)” and then immediately thinking, “Oh no, did I get that right?”

    “Recently I played in Cologne, and it wasn’t until after the gig, when I went out the front to sign merchandise that I realised I’d played the venue just five months before”

    steveg (86ebb5)

  96. You have also misrepresented Goldwater v Carter, since the reason it failed is the same reason that ALL these suits by a member of Congress fail: Only Congress has standing, not individual members. Here Congress has asserted a power, that power traces back to the black letters in the Constitution, and therefore has standing to defend that assertion.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  97. Ooops revisd v2
    Trump is a Rock Star on tour. Biden is not

    The “Hello Cleveland” joke in Spinal Tap was funny because it was spot on. They wander around backstage lost hollering “Hello Cleveland”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeNfw6XLI10

    From an article called “Forgive the Rock Star Who Gets Your City’s Name Wrong”

    Emily Barker who plays smaller clubs says
    “…as a performer, it’s one of your worst nightmares and something I’ve almost done numerous times. I am forever saying, “Hello (insert city)” and then immediately thinking, “Oh no, did I get that right?”

    “Recently I played in Cologne, and it wasn’t until after the gig, when I went out the front to sign merchandise that I realised I’d played the venue just five months before”

    steveg (86ebb5)

  98. Trump called a person very well known to him “Ronnie Johnson” rather than Ronnie Jackson- hilariously after talking about cognitive tests. However, Johnson, Jackson it happens all the time to everyone

    Biden says “hold my beer”

    “…Mr Biden was asked about Kamala Harris’s suitability to be president, in an obvious nod to the idea of her replacing him on the Democratic ticket.”

    Biden answers
    “I wouldn’t have picked Vice President Trump to be vice president, if she’s not qualified to be president”

    The clue to the name in the answer was the name in the question 10 seconds earlier and the clue still goes missing

    VP Harris magically turns in VP Trump? That takes a long and wide sequence of misfired synapses
    The surprise gender reveal was fun but no big deal

    steveg (86ebb5)

  99. The most important part of speech in the audience. Trump’s intended audience does not care what comes out as long as it’s his jaw that’s flapping. And if I know that, Trump knows that.

    As for Biden’s current troubles, they will soon (and I mean soon, not sooner or later) be submerged into the rivers of inertia, apathy and self-interest to tread water in the delta of Not Trump. And Biden’s coterie is counting on that too.

    nk (85ed53)

  100. nk
    Axios has an article cleverly titled:

    Behind the Curtain: Committee to Un-elect the President

    https://www.axios.com/2024/07/12/biden-news-old-democrats-president

    Then there is this lunatic
    Raheem Kassam, Editor-in-Chief of The National Pulse, believes Joe Biden’s death could prove to be the ‘October Surprise’ in the U.S. election, even if the so-called “Clinton diaspora” has to “make it happen.”Citing an Axios report that quotes a Bill Clinton administration official as saying the “Clinton diaspora is freaking the hell out” about Biden’s reelection prospects, Kassam referred his social media followers to a podcast from Thursday where he raised the possibility of the 81-year-old dying..

    I think Kassam is saying the “Clinton diaspora” is going to put Polonium into Biden’s pudding as an October surprise

    This is both funny and a horror show at the same time. I’d like to stop watching but I can’t. I’m drawn to human train wrecks as a window into our condition

    steveg (86ebb5)

  101. The Senate voted 65-28 to deny the president the power to withdraw from NATO, just last year. Four Republicans and 3 Democrats not voting. This shows considerable support for NATO. ……. A president who tried to withdraw would have significant political opposition, and a court case to win.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/12/2024 @ 5:54 pm

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/12/2024 @ 6:06 pm

    In order for Congress (or either House) as an institution to sue, it needs to specifically authorize the litigation. The support for NATO in the current Congress is irrelevant. I don’t see a future Congress necessarily authorizing litigation in regards to NATO withdrawal. Such legislation might be defeated.

    I think the result of such litigation would be the same: a determination that the restriction is unconstitutional because it “interferes with the President’s exclusive authority to execute treaties and to conduct diplomacy.”

    As President Trump would be in his last term, he would really have nothing to lose by defying Congress. And as we have seen in the last Supreme Court term, they lean toward extending Presidential power.

    Alternatively, Trump could just refuse to defend Europe without actually withdrawing from NATO. I doubt you would see the courts order the US to send troops into war.

    Rip Murdock (14415d)

  102. Kaivan Shroff tweeted out the montage posted by Dana. Here’s his take on the Hur report four months ago:

    “So media basically took Hur’s report which was full of lies and ran with it. This testimony is massively backfiring on Republicans — exposing Hur for the dishonest partisan operative he is. Lie after lie in the report when the transcript makes clear Biden’s memory was on point.”

    Total genius, this guy.

    lloyd (f96752)

  103. “As for Biden’s current troubles, they will soon (and I mean soon, not sooner or later) be submerged into the rivers of inertia, apathy and self-interest to tread water in the delta of Not Trump”

    Not trump should check everyone new to the delta for tattoos inside their upper lip.

    steveg (86ebb5)

  104. In order for Congress (or either House) as an institution to sue, it needs to specifically authorize the litigation. The support for NATO in the current Congress is irrelevant. ………

    Rip Murdock (14415d) — 7/12/2024 @ 7:56 pm

    …………..
    ………… the legal protections installed by Section 1250A (which prohibits the unilateral withdrawal from NATO) are incomplete. During congressional debates, a key provision was dropped that would have preauthorized litigation to challenge any presidential effort to exit NATO contrary to this provision. Absent such authorization, it is unclear who might have the standing necessary to challenge the legality of an attempted unilateral exit from NATO in federal court—even one that is ultimately unlawful.
    …………..
    As it prepared to leave office in December 2020, the Trump-era Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) released a legal opinion asserting as much, specifically in defense of President Trump’s decision to withdraw from the Open Skies Treaty while disregarding a statutory provision requiring that the president provide advance notice to Congress before initiating such a step. While congressional leaders objected to the legality of Trump’s actions, no one challenged them in the courts, leaving this legal position untouched by judicial review. And because the Biden administration has not yet rescinded or modified this opinion, it appears to remain the stated position of the executive branch.
    …………

    Source

    Rip Murdock (107d06)

  105. Biden had a perfect call pandering the Democrat Hispanic Caucus

    “We’re in a situation where, that’s why I used the executive action, for example, to make sure that over a million Latinos who are married to an American citizen are, get complete access to citizenship, and get — you get a green card now,”

    One of them still asked Biden to step down.

    steveg (86ebb5)

  106. I don’t usually like the Bee but that is funny.

    I’m listening to Liz Cheney’s “Oath and Honor: A memoir and a warning.” The Oath in the title is the oath to to preserve protect and defend the Constituion. The warning is that we can’t let Trump back in the Oval office. And Cheney is no raving liberal obviously.

    Damn remembering his deluge of lies post election (which half the country now takes as gospel) — the pleas from State AGs to stop inciting violence (which he ignored). The 60 out of 61 court rulings which he ignored. The pressuring of Pence not to certify state votes.

    I would literally vote for Biden’s cold corpse before I vote for Trump, and Joe seems intent on making sure I get to.

    JRH (c2c44f)

  107. The Gaza pier is a $250M (so far) fiasco

    “About 8,500 tons of aid has been delivered to the pier via Cyprus, a Cypriot source said, roughly the equivalent of 425 aid trucks.

    Aid officials say about 600 trucks of humanitarian and commercial supplies are needed in Gaza daily to meet the needs of the population.”

    So in two months, and $250M we’ve managed to provide a little over 2/3 of a days worth of supplies. If Trump was Presiding over this, the press would be hysterical and Rep. Tlaib would want Trump lynched for committing genocide

    steveg (86ebb5)

  108. @81 Katie Porter. Barbara Lee.

    asset (408e53)

  109. So, for the floating dock, the Improved Navy Lighterage System (INLS, because acronyms are cool like that) was never intended to be up for weeks or months. It’s a strictly temporary construction to ferry initial equipment over for a few days to maybe a week or two. With that, Seabees or Army Joint Logistics Command then builds an ELCAS, Temporary Elevated Causeway that can handle higher sea states.

    All of this is/was known, but the INLS is cheap (the $250M isn’t a real number as the lego blocks are reusable and were in inventory) and effectively able to be pulled apart if something onshore goes awry, and if weather turns bad the pieces just need to get wrangled back into position, but you really don’t lose much equipment, they’re all laso’d up to make sure that when it does break, most of the pieces are chunked together, and those are tethered to surface buoys or giant concrete anchors on the sea floor.

    So all you’re really spending is people time that you were already going to have, fuel, and the cargo you’re transporting. Of the budgetary number for “wasted” money on the pier and labor is close to zero, it’s nearly all cargo.

    There’s a great article about Pacific Strike in 2008 where we basically did exactly this excercise and had exactly these issues with the INLS. It’s a pain in the butt, but the INLS does it’s thing better than airdrops or landing craft by something like 1000X. You just park your cargo sea-side and use regular logistics equipment and trucks to drive it ashore. It’s a pain because it’s freaky, and you do have to worry about wave action, but a driving a single 50ton shipment off the ship to shore in a 60-90 minute evolution (that may include 20 trucks) is much better than flying in and airdropping 50t on 3-5 aircraft over 24 hours, or loading and offloading landing craft. It’s how and Amazon warehouse works.

    If it was supposed to stay for long term use, then they should have built an ELCAS, but that costs real money, and you don’t drive it away. It basically just falls over if you’re not actively maintaining it, you just leave it behind, where the blocks you can just pick them up when you’re done.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  110. Also, building an ELCAS requires a lot of logistics support, so you are shore basing your construction crews and all of that was a giant no-no in Gaza. It’s a highly conflicted, dense, battlespace where you’re going to get collateral damage. Gaza is less than 6km deep, so the Israelis are going to be dropping ordinance only a few thousand meters away, and there’s sure to be bullets flying hither-and-yon, you can get deaded from a heavy machine gun round just missing it’s target in Gaza, from the Israeli side of the border, 6km is in combat.

    For the floating pier, everyone goes back to the ship off-duty. Still dangerous, but much less than trying to build and sleep in a FOB on the beach.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  111. I thought this was an onion article, nope, it’s popping up everywhere.

    Pretty please with sugar on top.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  112. In order for Congress (or either House) as an institution to sue, it needs to specifically authorize the litigation. The support for NATO in the current Congress is irrelevant. I don’t see a future Congress necessarily authorizing litigation in regards to NATO withdrawal. Such legislation might be defeated.

    Eighteen GOP Senators voted for the limitation, even though Trump was opposed. Presumably all Democrats would vote for it, so it’s a pretty likely pass.

    I think the result of such litigation would be the same: a determination that the restriction is unconstitutional because it “interferes with the President’s exclusive authority to execute treaties and to conduct diplomacy.”

    Yeah, well, that’s just your opinion.

    As President Trump would be in his last term, he would really have nothing to lose by defying Congress. And as we have seen in the last Supreme Court term, they lean toward extending Presidential power.

    Defying Congress? Again, impeachment. This is an issue that matters. Even GOP Senators who voted against the NATO limitation because they also didn’t think it was constitutional might convict over actually quitting NATO. Just because it is within Presidential power does not mean it’s not impeachable. If Trump ordered, say, the carpet bombing of Mexico City he’d be within his powers, but he’d be quickly impeached, convicted and extradited.

    Alternatively, Trump could just refuse to defend Europe without actually withdrawing from NATO. I doubt you would see the courts order the US to send troops into war.

    Yeah, that’s another way to get impeached.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  113. “interferes with the President’s exclusive authority to execute treaties and to conduct diplomacy.”

    Except that he needs 2/3rd of the Senate to ratify a treaty, and he needs a majority of the Senate to approve an ambassador and/or high State Department officials.

    Besides that, it’s “exclusive.”

    Nowhere in the Constitution does it give him the power to abrogate a treaty.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  114. Rip,

    A better case for your argument is Myers v. United States.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  115. Putin will never let Trump withdraw from NATO. He will want him on the inside to keep the other nations on a short leash while draining America’s resources to no effective purpose.

    nk (dd3147)

  116. He already has Orban and Erdogan.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  117. Here’s a little story problem for everyone: Has the Loser hit a total of 1,000,000 lies, told publicly, in his adult life? If not, will he during this campaign?

    The answer to the second may depend on how many days he has to spend in court rooms, just to make it more complicated.

    It would be helpful to all of us if “show your work”, and give us your assumptions, when you try to arrive at an estimate.

    Jim Miller (0dd779)

  118. What I want is for Trump and Trumpism to be publicly discredited. For his base to turn on him after he fails to serve their interests. For the rational wings of the GOP to coalesce around more traditional politics while co-opting Trump’s white working class base.

    I think this is more likely to happen with a Trump restoration than with a Trump defeat. In defeat in 2020, he was not diminished even after his seditious conspiracies. If anything he grew stronger as his successor bungled everything he touched.

    So, I am not as fearful of a second Trump term as some seem to be. For Trump to fail, he has to have an opportunity to do so. He needs more rope.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  119. Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/13/2024 @ 7:40 am

    Obviously impeachment is your solution to everything, and if it occurs in the future it is completely unknowable. I don’t know why you assume that will happen in a future Congress-past isn’t prologue.

    The likelihood that Trump would be impeached by a future Congress is slightly more than zero (since it requires only a majority vote), but the likelihood he would be convicted is definitely less than zero.

    Nowhere in the Constitution does it give him the power to abrogate a treaty.

    As noted above, the Trump Administration withdrew from The Open Skies Treaty in direct defiance of a congressionally mandated notification requirement with nary a peep from Congress.

    The fact that the Constitution is silent on the matter whether the President can withdraw from a treaty isn’t conclusive. The OLC memo, which is now Biden Administration policy (it hasn’t been updated or replaced), is a good place to start. There is nothing in the Constitution that says he can’t, and if it were prohibited by the Constitution, it should have been an explicit exception to the President’s plenary powers as commander in chief and foreign affairs. It’s an open question, but I do think the courts would rule in the President’s favor.

    LOL! If Trump carpet bombed Mexico City he would be awarded the Congressional Gold Medal.

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5)

  120. RIP singer, songwriter, and co-founder of Stealers Wheels Joe Egan (77):

    ………..
    Egan…….. and (co-founder Gerry Rafferty) met as teenagers at St. Mirin’s Academy in their hometown of Paisley, Scotland, and formed Stealers Wheel in the early 1970s. Their first two singles stiffed, but the third would become a rock and pop standard.

    The pair co-wrote and both sang lead parts on “Stuck in the Middle with You,” which soared to the Top 10 in the U.S. and UK and eventually sold more than 2 million copies. Its success pushed the group’s eponymous A&M Records debut album to No. 50 on the Billboard 200.

    The song had a resurgence when it was featured in a key scene of Quentin Tarantino’s debut feature, Reservoir Dogs. The bouncy “Stuck in the Middle with You” played as Mr. Blonde (Michael Madsen) gleefully tortures a cop and sings and dances to the track.……….
    …………..
    Rafferty (who died in 2011) had left shortly after the group’s first album to focus on a solo career. ………..
    …………….

    I can’t hear “Stuck in the Middle With You” anymore without thinking of the Reservoir Dogs scene. (Shudder).

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5)

  121. So, I am not as fearful of a second Trump term as some seem to be. For Trump to fail, he has to have an opportunity to do so. He needs more rope.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/13/2024 @ 8:15 am

    What about the price that will be paid by the American people and its politics and government? Is it worth the risk?

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5)

  122. The thing with Trump, you just don’t know what’s true and what is just bravado. With NATO, he got to act the tough guy and policing how country’s contributed to the collective defense. The concerning part is that multiple of his cabinet members and advisors relayed that he wanted out privately…and was talked out of it by emphasizing that it could play against him with re-election.

    Has anything changed? Has anything changed with respect to his view that we are wasting millions of dollars opposing Putin in Ukraine? It’s unknowable who currently has Trump’s ear, but it’s disconcerting that Orban seems to have ready access and is lavishly praised by Trump. That suggests big shakeup if he gets elected.

    How much of a policy switch could initiate impeachment that would have bi-partisan support? It depends how he sells it and how right-wing media spins it. I could easily see chipping away like the Muslim ban to get the desired result. With JD as the #2, impeachment only works so well.

    The corollary is what might this mean for other defense arrangements, say S. Korea, and defense deployments, say Somalia (horn of Africa)? And how much damage occurs before Congress can act. Again, conservative governance usually implies caution with our alliances and commitments. Trump doesn’t seem to reflect that….

    AJ_Liberty (5dcf5e)

  123. It’s remarkable the infighting on the Left over Biden, Harris, and the need for a brand new candidate. It looks like Biden will hold, unless there is a miracle this coming week: an epiphany of polling that reveals softness that currently is not conveyed. Biden’s press conference was apparently “good enough”. It’s unfortunate…I agree with the commenter who thought the first party that drops their anchor would win in 2024. Clearly the GOP has double-downed on its position. Dems appeared to have waited too long.

    AJ_Liberty (3b229c)

  124. We’re set up now for a Trump presidency with control of both houses of Congress and a revolution in American governance unlike anything since FDR.

    aphrael (1797ab)

  125. > What I want is for Trump and Trumpism to be publicly discredited. For his base to turn on him after he fails to serve their interests. For the rational wings of the GOP to coalesce around more traditional politics while co-opting Trump’s white working class base.

    That will take a generation or more and the Republic will be destroyed in the meantime.

    Unfortunately, it’s now the only path available to us.

    aphrael (1797ab)

  126. > Rep. Tlaib would want Trump lynched for committing genocide

    Significant sections of the left are refusing to vote for Biden on the grounds that he is a genocidiare and therefore unworthy of support, and they don’t care if that means Trump wins, because at least they’ll have the moral certainty of knowing they didn’t vote for evil.

    aphrael (1797ab)

  127. Nowhere in the Constitution does it give him the power to abrogate a treaty.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/13/2024 @ 7:46 am

    Presidents have withdrawn from treaties without Congressional consent (or the threat of impeachment) before. For example:

    -Trump withdrew the US from the INF Treaty in addition to The Open Skies Treaty

    -GW Bush withdrew from the ABM Treaty

    -Carter withdrew from the U.S.-Taiwan Mutual Defense Treaty

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5)

  128. And how much damage occurs before Congress can act. Again, conservative governance usually implies caution with our alliances and commitments. Trump doesn’t seem to reflect that….

    AJ_Liberty (5dcf5e) — 7/13/2024 @ 9:55 am

    That assumes Congress will be inclined to act at all. A majority may not care.

    No one has ever accused Trump of being a conservative. He’s a populist playing to the mob.

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5)

  129. > conservative governance usually implies caution with our alliances and commitments. Trump doesn’t seem to reflect that….

    Republicans no longer care about conservative governance. But we’re going to have to watch them in action for a score years before conservatives wake up and realize that.

    aphrael (1797ab)

  130. Plus … are they really our allies or are they just people trying to manipulate us and use us for their own benefit without giving us anything in return? That’s pretty clearly how Trump sees them, and his views will come to control the views of the people around him.

    aphrael (1797ab)

  131. #128 During Bill Clinton’s time in office, there was the Rwandan genocide. (Which his administration covered up to protect his political viability.)

    When Obama first ran for president, he admitted that his policy of withdrawing from Iraq might result in genocide. (I gave him credit for his frankness at the time.) When ISIS over ran much of the Iraq, they committed genocide (and re-established slavery, openly). As far as I have seen, rather few on the Left blame Obama for that outcome.

    When Biden took office he gave a prominent position to Susan Rice, who had served in both previous administrations.

    Jim Miller (0dd779)

  132. Jim — oh, sure, i’m not saying that there’s a general pattern of behavior that’s consistent across decades, i’m just noting that a lot of the people I know on the left are so furious about *this specific situation* that they’re openly denouncing Biden as the worse international leader since Hitler and arguing that nobody should support him, *even if the result is a disaster for the US*, because supporting this genocide is morally worse than anything any other politician might do.

    I think it’s insane.

    aphrael (1797ab)

  133. Thank you for taking the time to share the dock information, Klink.

    norcal (8c21fb)

  134. @125 Wrong in fighting is moderates trying to save themselves. the Left: Bernie, AOC, Ilhan Omar et.al. have joined with black caucus that biden is nominee so they don’t get blamed if biden loses. Its called real poiitik.

    asset (64e280)

  135. Bill Maher was brutal in his assessment of Biden last night.

    He said letting Biden decide whether to continue his campaign was like letting a drunk guy decide if he’s okay to drive.

    norcal (8c21fb)

  136. On second thought, Maher may have said “letting Biden decide whether he is fit to serve out another term”, but you get the idea.

    norcal (8c21fb)

  137. Rip Murdock (dbfed5) — 7/13/2024 @ 10:14 am

    And, again since you can’t seem to hear it, how many of those had a 2/3rds vote of the Senate passing a LAW saying DON’T DO THIS?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  138. What about the price that will be paid by the American people and its politics and government? Is it worth the risk?

    I balance that against a Kamala Harris presidency and find the difference unimportant. Of course, that’s because I oppose everything Harris has ever done or will do. YMMV.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  139. Lunatics who keep talking like Trump is the end of America are partly responsible for this attempted murder.

    NJRob (4cf0f1)

  140. a revolution in American governance unlike anything since FDR.

    Perhaps. Trump isn’t the person I’d choose, but that revolution is coming anyway. I’d rather take my medicine now that drag this out another 3 cycles. Biden’s plan is the Old Man’s plan — apres moi le deluge.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  141. No one has ever accused Trump of being a conservative. He’s a populist playing to the mob.

    Indeed. But why the mod in the first place. Joe Sixpack doesn’t hang up his bowling shoes and get active in politics for nothing. Populism is a response by the governed when those governing forget who they work for.

    Shorter: the elites got greedy.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  142. When ISIS over ran much of the Iraq, they committed genocide (and re-established slavery, openly). As far as I have seen, rather few on the Left blame Obama for that outcome.

    And to be fair, Trump told his generals to make it stop, and it did.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  143. I wonder what would happen if, after Trump announces a withdrawal from NATO, the Senate ratifies the treaty again.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  144. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/gunfire-breaks-out-trump-rally-pennnsylvania

    This is the media and people who act like Trump is the end of the world who are to blame.

    NJRob (4cf0f1)

  145. And, again since you can’t seem to hear it, how many of those had a 2/3rds vote of the Senate passing a LAW saying DON’T DO THIS?

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/13/2024 @ 3:16 pm

    At least one-The Open Skies Treaty.

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5)

  146. Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/13/2024 @ 3:16 pm

    The vote percentage is irrelevant.

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5)

  147. I wonder what would happen if, after Trump announces a withdrawal from NATO, the Senate ratifies the treaty again.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/13/2024 @ 3:30 pm

    LOL! I don’t see that happening-why would a MAGA Senator vote “yes”?

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5)

  148. LOL! I don’t see that happening-why would a MAGA Senator vote “yes”?

    18 of them voted for the DON’T DO THIS law. A few others voted no only for the reasons you’ve brought up.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  149. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/gunfire-breaks-out-trump-rally-pennnsylvania

    This is the media and people who act like Trump is the end of the world who are to blame.

    NJRob (4cf0f1) — 7/13/2024 @ 3:33 pm

    Yeah I have to agree with NJ

    Nothing more antidemocratic than shooting your opponent.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  150. At least one-The Open Skies Treaty.

    That had a 120-day mandated notice for withdrawing. I believe that Trump complied with that provision.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  151. > This is the media and people who act like Trump is the end of the world who are to blame.

    Speaking as someone who believes Trump *will be* the end of the Republic,

    (a) this is god-d*mned terrible news.

    (b) to the extent that you’re saying i’m responsible for this, go f*ck yourself.

    aphrael (1797ab)

  152. LOL! I don’t see that happening-why would a MAGA Senator vote “yes”?

    18 of them voted for the DON’T DO THIS law. A few others voted no only for the reasons you’ve brought up.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/13/2024 @ 3:49 pm

    Who may or may not be in office in the next Congress, and who may make a different political decision. Past votes are not indicative of future votes.

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5)

  153. Haley fans say they are nevertrump, but Haley campaigned for Trump, has given all her delegates to trump, and will be in the next administration.

    And now Trump’s going to be polling very high against a biden administration that hid the condition of the president because the administration individuals got power they weren’t elected to have.

    Both Trump and Biden are terrible for my values and for democracy. My frustration that the GOP had one of the best options it’s had in 100 years, and went with this, is no surprise. This process is just broken. GOP=FUBAR-BUNDY

    Dustin (36e56d)

  154. @154 “eliminationist rhetoric” only gets called out when it comes from the right.

    lloyd (c5341c)

  155. That had a 120-day mandated notice for withdrawing. I believe that Trump complied with that provision.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/13/2024 @ 3:53 pm

    Actually he didn’t, and the OLC memo explained why his administration wouldn’t comply.

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5)

  156. Of course, shooting at Trump, aside from being absolutely morally indefensible, is a good way to *hasten* the end of the Republic. What the f*ck were those *ssh*l*s thinking?

    aphrael (1797ab)

  157. It’s not surprising that someone shot at Trump, given the “Moral Duty” level of some of the rhetoric. Both sides need to dial this back some.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  158. (b) to the extent that you’re saying i’m responsible for this, go f*ck yourself.

    aphrael (1797ab) — 7/13/2024 @ 3:53 pm

    Lots of folks have said Trump’s supporters are responsible for the very worst things they definitely didn’t want.

    And Biden has ABSOLUTELY campaigned on Trump in a mud slinging fashion and used rhetoric leading to this. He did the same to Romney putting blacks in chains.

    You aren’t a big Biden fan I realize. But for some reason you associated yourself with NJ’s remarks. I do think Trump is awful, and he’s special, but not *that* special. He isn’t the first sore loser to agitate his opponent stole an election. Not even recently. He’s not the first whoremonger with no values in the oval office.

    It is time for the left to tone it down. From Hamas defense to talk about chik filet. Start acting like we want to work together, or see more blood on the faces of politicians.

    We all have a role to play here. We all should love our country enough to take ownership of our political process. It is so fashionable to abandon this process, but it is whatever we made of it.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  159. It’s important not to follow the example leftists continually set. Meaning not only eliminationist rhetoric but jumping to conclusions before the facts are in.

    lloyd (c5341c)

  160. I am old enough to remember that when Oswald killed JFK, many jumped to the conclusion that the shooter was from the far right — and, of course, many still believe conspriacy stories about the assasination, today. In spite of definitive works like Posner’s “Case Closed”.

    So, I will wait for more information before coming to any conscusions.

    Jim Miller (19069b)

  161. Haley …….. will be in the next administration.

    I’ll take that bet, but if does happen, watch the heads of the Haley fans here explode.

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5)

  162. Post updated with shots fire at Trump rally news.

    Dana (28a192)

  163. If (again, IF) this was an intentional attack on Trump and his supporters, we know it will be blamed on 1) Trump’s rhetoric, and 2) guns.

    lloyd (c5341c)

  164. Rip, Kevin this guy did a lot of work on the tension between Presidential Treaty powers and Senate authorization powers. Apologies for the formatting

    https://dl.tufts.edu/pdfviewer/ww72bn88g/1j92gk32j

    Alan Wachman:
    “The issue, then, is not one of power but authorization to use the power.

    “Considerable time was spent discussing past practices of treaty termination and views of a constitutional mandate of authority to one branch of government or the other.
    Assertions by both camps that the Constitution supports their view of a mandate of authority for one branch or the other led nowhere.
    Evidently, the President does have the power (internationally) to terminate treaties although he may lack the authority (domestically)
    to use that power.
    If his power to act in terminating treaties did not exist, Congress would be questioning the validity of Carter’s action, not its propriety.
    Taiwan, too, would have sought clarification or international legal redress if it felt that the termination was invalid because Carter
    lacked the power to invoke the termination clause.
    The issue, then, is not one of power but authorization to use the power.
    The Senate mayhave the authority to terminate a treaty but lacks the power to give effect to its decision absent Presidential concurrence.
    In practice, the President’s power to terminate a treaty, even if unauthorized, may prevail over the wishes of the Congress if other States view our President’s capacity to
    make and implement foreign affairs as unimpeded and behave accordingly.

    What emerges from the three days of hearings is a realization that no agreement exists about a specific mandate of power or authority to terminate
    treaties.
    This was later echoed by members of the Supreme Court. Laurence Tribe, in a comment reminiscent of one made by Abraham Baldwin in 1796, concludes:
    the very fact that the Constitution does not prescribe a mode
    of treaty termination suggests the framers did not think any
    one mode appropriate in all cases, and therefore, left the matter
    to be resolved in light of particular circumstances of each
    situation
    .”

    In 1978 the President tried to act independently of the Senate, thinking
    himself constitutionally free of their bond.
    But, as Professor Abram Chayes pointed out:
    “Congress has been able to devise and force the President to
    accept a stronger and much more public commitment to the
    Security of Taiwan than he seemed at first to be willing to
    make.”

    steveg (db5380)

  165. Actually he didn’t, and the OLC memo explained why his administration wouldn’t comply.

    That memo has no legal effect. The Congress could have sued, but did not care enough to enforce the delay, and may have been in favor of withdrawal.

    unconstitutionally interferes with the President’s exclusive authority to execute treaties and to conduct diplomacy, a necessary incident of which is the authority to exercise the United States’ right to withdraw from a treaty.

    Rank poppycock. The president cannot make treaties by himself, and every single one of his diplomats must be approved by the Senate so his authority isn’t total there either.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  166. Remember Psaki lying about Trump saying ‘bloodbath’? Remember commenters here saying Trump is calling for a bloodbath level of violence after the election?

    And they got what they wanted. Blood.

    I have been an outspoken nevertrumper for years. I somewhat want Trump to win a landslide so that these psychos like Psaki learn to stop agitating harm against Republicans.

    This isn’t even the first time republican politicians have been shot in recent memory.

    In the political system, if there aren’t consequences on election day, we will get more bloodshed.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  167. I’ll take that bet, but if does happen, watch the heads of the Haley fans here explode.

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5) — 7/13/2024 @ 3:59 pm

    She gave Trump all her delegates and campaigned only against Desantis, who was never likely to win. And she was in Trump’s last administration and has fawned over Trump recently.

    What’s the stakes of your bet? I say whoever loses the bet limits their comments to one a day for one year.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  168. Good thing is, we will find out. Trump is going to be elected. Things changed today.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  169. I remember all the misreporting that occurred during the attempted Reagan assassination. Not the media’s finest work.

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5)

  170. What’s the stakes of your bet? I say whoever loses the bet limits their comments to one a day for one year.

    Fifty dollars to support this forum.

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5)

  171. Rip, you would be better served by observing what happened to the Tenure of Office Act, which attempted to constrain the President’s ability to fire Cabinet officers.

    While it was repealed unchallenged, an office-holder sued after being terminated, claiming the Senate had to agree and the Court shot that down (and in dicta indicated the Tenure of Office Act was also unconstitutional)

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  172. I remember all the misreporting that occurred during the attempted Reagan assassination. Not the media’s finest work.

    Hell, the Secret Service almost screwed the pooch by not taking Reagan to the hospital right away.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  173. Even when we wait for all the facts to come in, it sometimes doesn’t filter out the truly ridiculous. Remember when Andrew McCabe’s FBI ruled the softball shooting suicide by cop?

    lloyd (c5341c)

  174. > Good thing is, we will find out. Trump is going to be elected. Things changed today.

    I view that as a bad thing, but yes, Trump won the election today.

    aphrael (1797ab)

  175. It would serve Dustin right if DeSantis gets a Cabinet post and not Haley.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  176. Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/13/2024 @ 4:09 pm

    Irrelevant as to the President’s plenary authority as commander in chief and the conduct of foreign affairs.

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5)

  177. WaPo: Trump rushed offstage after loud noises heard at Pa. rally

    NYT: Trump ‘Safe’ After What Sounded Like Gunshots at Rally

    WSJ: Trump Taken Off Stage After Apparent Shots Fired at Rally

    Interesting spins. And I love the NYT’s scare quotes.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  178. Reminder: There were two assasination attempts on Gerald Ford — but he still lost the election to Jimmy Carter.

    Teddy Roosevelt was shot during the 1912 campaign — but he still lots to Woodrow Wilson.

    Jim Miller (19069b)

  179. “loud noises” my god

    lloyd (c5341c)

  180. Kevin M-

    I’ve enjoyed this civil exchange regarding presidential and congressional treaty authority; but I think we have run out of things to say. We’ll see what happens after Trump tries to extract the US from NATO.

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5)

  181. Irrelevant as to the President’s plenary authority as commander in chief and the conduct of foreign affairs.

    Please point out where his plenary power over foreign affairs is mentioned in Article II. It does not include the power to declare war, but otherwise the document is silent.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  182. Yeah, OK. The War Powers Act is also an issue.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  183. Teddy Roosevelt was shot during the 1912 campaign — but he still lots to Woodrow Wilson.

    Even after he finished his speech before getting treatment.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  184. @181 Both of those followed successful assassinations not that long before. Unfortunately, we were kind of numb to it, I think. We’ve been through two generations who’ve never imagined what an assassination attempt is. They’re not supposed to happen here anymore.

    lloyd (c5341c)

  185. > We’ve been through two generations who’ve never imagined what an assassination attempt is. They’re not supposed to happen here anymore.

    Yes. This sort of thing is NOT SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN HERE.

    aphrael (1797ab)

  186. The NYT headline is quoting the Secret Service:

    A spokesman for the Secret Service, Anthony Guglielmi, said in a statement that Mr. Trump was “safe” after “an incident occurred” at his rally in Pennsylvania. He did not provide further details. It was not immediately clear if any rally attendees were injured.

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5)

  187. I remember 11/22/63, 4/4/68 and 6/6/68 like they were yesterday. Does that mean I’m getting old?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  188. NBC:

    Secret Service rushes Trump offstage after popping noises heard at his Pennsylvania rally

    Amazing there are probably people who still believe the news just found out Biden is a cabbage brain.

    Popping noise…

    Wow.

    Wake up people.

    BuDuh (e7676d)

  189. > Does that mean I’m getting old?

    Considering that the most recent of those was 56 years ago, yes, it means you are getting old.

    aphrael (1797ab)

  190. Politico top headline: “Trump rushed off stage at Pennsylvania rally after apparent shooting”

    Politico second headline, which had been up since this morning: “Republicans put Milwaukee on lockdown. Protesters fumed.”

    Yeah, duh.

    lloyd (c5341c)

  191. RIP Richard Simmons, 76

    RIP “Dr Ruth” Westheimer, 96

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  192. Considering that the most recent of those was 56 years ago, yes, it means you are getting old.

    I was wondering who would point that out. It was somewhat rhetorical.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  193. Why don’t we wait a couple of days to be told whether it was leftover Fourth of July firecrackers?

    nk (dd8332)

  194. The images of Trump’s neck look like he was nicked. I’m sure that within an hour someone will claim it’s catsup.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  195. @196 It could be Russian misinformation.

    lloyd (c5341c)

  196. Over at DU they think trump staged it or worse. Calling trump hitler and a threat to democracy what do you expect will happen? It will probably get worse.

    asset (973195)

  197. This guy is going to think he can do anything he wants if he says it’s an official act. He just had the most life threatening experience of his life. He’s sat in courtrooms and been prosecuted for crimes… a lot of which he did do.

    He is going to be elected.

    I pray, sincerely literally pray, this doesn’t lead the USA to a banana republic situation.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  198. Why don’t we wait a couple of days to be told whether it was leftover Fourth of July firecrackers?

    I was at Reagan’s last campaign appearance, November 1988, at Pierce College. He spoke to a crowd that was standing on the stadium grass. There were HEAVILY-ARMED secret service agents in the crowd.

    At one point someone DID set off a string of fire-crackers, but the SS guys didn’t react. I thought it might be gunshots but apparently they were better trained than that.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  199. A rally attendee was killed by the popping noises according to the AP.

    More joke please, nk. Good form..

    BuDuh (e7676d)

  200. @196 It could be firecrackers from a wet market.

    lloyd (c5341c)

  201. > I pray, sincerely literally pray, this doesn’t lead the USA to a banana republic situation.

    Too late. The Republic is already dead, and we are watching its death throes.

    aphrael (1797ab)

  202. 1984, obviously.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  203. Those saying ‘hold on maybe this is totally misreported’ have a great point. These things are always reported totally wrong.

    https://x.com/floridanow1/status/1812263900617793860

    But it looks to me like the shooter was killed, and this isn’t some balloon or firecracker thing, given Trump was injured.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  204. Too late. The Republic is already dead, and we are watching its death throes.

    The Republic died in 1940

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  205. Too late. The Republic is already dead, and we are watching its death throes.

    aphrael (1797ab) — 7/13/2024 @ 4:38 pm

    No reason we can’t walk it back. A correction is due, and the vast majority of folks want the same thing. We’re being run by political parties that are totally obsolete.

    However, you are probably right.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  206. Waiting for the conspiracy theory that a Russian op shooter grazed Trump on purpose to ensure his election.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  207. Two people dead, including a shooter.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  208. Waiting for the conspiracy theory that a Russian op shooter grazed Trump on purpose to ensure his election.

    OTOH, the shooter might have been an illegal.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  209. Congress, (which evidently used to be run by adults) handled business and defended their powers like a boss by passing the Taiwan Relations Act overwhelmingly.
    Right back at you Carter.
    But they also stayed in their Congressional powers lane, by effectively conceding that Carter did have the power to recognize Taiwan as part of China

    Todays Congress would very probably not get together on a bi-partisan basis to defend their powers vs the Executive (Biden). 50 plus one would defend Biden (Executive Power) and effectively concede the power of the Senate to him.

    The Supreme Court has gently noted that todays Congress isn’t doing their jobs. They have not used the word weak, but Congress is divided and weak to the point of often being dysfunctional.
    I put a lot of that blame on past Speakers, Leaders of the House, Senate because they set the tone and the culture. The decisions to choose partisanship, partisanship over powers, lawfare over legislation, are theirs.
    The voters are to blame as well, because we are all about fighting the other side tooth and nail to the point of absurdity. Fighting to send a 6-2″ intact male who raped a female into a womens prison is absurd. Fighting to prevent abortions to victims of violent incestual rape is absurd. Yet here we are and a

    steveg (db5380)

  210. Musk endorses Trump.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  211. Biden said ‘it’s time to put Trump in a bullseye’ recently.

    I recall Sarah Palin being blamed for Giffords getting shot for less.

    However, in Biden’s defense he didn’t really understand what he was reading/saying given his lack of a cerebellum.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  212. I’m surprised that none of the people behind Trump were hit, at least not in the video.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  213. @214 Palin was blamed in the most ridiculous fashion. That’s when Krugman coined the “eliminationist rhetoric” buzz phrase, directed at her in the NYT.

    lloyd (c5341c)

  214. Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/13/2024 @ 4:18 pm

    Article II, Section 2 vests with the President the exclusive power to recognize or not recognize foreign governments; and to make treaties (subject to Senate approval). Modern presidents also negotiate executive agreements, which aren’t approved by the Senate but have the legal force of treaties (see US v. Pink, 1942). And as we have seen, Presidents can commit US forces into combat without Congress declaring war.

    I would agree that Congress and the President each have a responsibility for foreign affairs, but it’s a more like a 30/70 split in the President’s favor. There have been very few Supreme Court decisions interpreting the split between the two branches concerning their foreign affairs powers. Congress has given up its share for decades.

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5)

  215. Tomorrow’s news today:

    “We will probably never know the shooter’s motive”

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  216. @216 And, Palin was still being blamed by the NYT years later, prompting her lawsuit which unfortunately failed.

    lloyd (c5341c)

  217. The closest it came in recent years was when Congress failed to give Clinton an AUMF for his Kosovo war. But they decided not to test the War Powers Act.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  218. Secret Service shot and killed a suspected shooter at a Trump rally in Pennsylvania after shots were fired, according to law enforcement officials

    (WSJ)

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  219. A spectator was also killed.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  220. What’s the stakes of your bet? I say whoever loses the bet limits their comments to one a day for one year.

    Dustin (36e56d) — 7/13/2024 @ 4:06 pm

    You declining the bet, Rip? I don’t blame you. Haley is the most loyal Trump sycophant in the world. Don Jr looks at her and wonders when she’s going to tone it down.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  221. Yes. This sort of thing is NOT SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN HERE.

    7 presidents or ex-presidents have been either shot at or killed since 1865, so just statistically this has been a safe 56 years to be president. A presidential candidate in a public outdoor venue is supremely vulnerable, especially with today’s availability of precision rifles and, more importantly, precision optics, anything inside a half mile is pretty routine. The new M7 with the M157 optic basically makes anyone a sniper out to 2/3 a mile. You need to spend $10k on the system, but just about anyone can spend $1500 and get most of that.

    That just goes to show how great the secret service is at protecting people. One thing you see quite a bit today is people who EDC having negligent discharges pulling and stowing their handguns in the car before security screening.

    We’ll see what happens now, but regardless, I know what the Trump message will be. If it’s a Trumpster, it’s deep state, if it’s a lefty, it’s deep state, if it’s a drive by half a mile away, deep state. If it’s a person taking a shot at Trump, maybe deep state. I always vote for crazy bird because that’s always true.

    It was basically dumb luck that Clinton wasn’t killed by the Al Qaeda cell in the Philippines. Being a celebrity has it’s downside, billionaires hire Academi to protect them for a reason.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  222. The sniper who took a shot on former President Donald Trump’s life is dead, sources told The Post.

    The Secret Service Counter counter-assault team “neutralized” the threat, the insiders said.

    That’s the New York Post. I will wait until the truth has a chance to put its pants on.

    nk (dd8332)

  223. 4 min ago
    Shooter at Trump rally killed by Secret Service, according to USSS source

    The shooter at the Donald Trump rally was killed by the Secret Service, according to a Secret Service source. An attendee was also killed during the incident.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  224. > “We will probably never know the shooter’s motive”

    While the secret service was right to take him out, the fact that nobody can interrogate him *is* a bad outcome.

    aphrael (1797ab)

  225. “That’s the New York Post. I will wait until the truth has a chance to put its pants on.“

    Wait at least for 51 intelligence officials to chime in, nk

    lloyd (c5341c)

  226. I’ve been pretty concerned that all this propaganda about the Supreme Court would lead to violence against Thomas and Alito. And it very well may, given how that would actually make a huge difference in outcomes.

    Shooting Trump is the worst way to stop his movement. But he is a perfect storm of being a pretty easy to hate fella, and the way the Biden campaign has operated with hostility and hatred. There is barely any reason to care about this election, except now it’s a chance to make a statement about violence.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  227. The video @206 is a spectator being taken to doctors. He apparently died. The shooter was apparently outside the venue at an overlook.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  228. Another suicide by cop. Tsk, tsk

    lloyd (c5341c)

  229. If this was two drunk dudes, probably not because this isn’t Florida.

    Weird that it seems to be a handgun that got through security, but happens with TSA all the time, and if you pre-announce the site, there are thousands of ways to stash a gun in the location. My EDC P365 is tiny, and there are many tiny .380s.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  230. While the secret service was right to take him out,

    It’s the kind of situation where, unless he’s dropped his weapon and is kneeling with his hands behind his head, they’re gonna shoot and ask questions alter.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  231. Biden hasn’t made a statement yet, I guess because it’s after 4:00pm

    lloyd (c5341c)

  232. So far, I’ve heard that the shooter was 1) on a nearby building, or 2) in a field nearby, or 3) in the stands. Probably none of the above.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  233. President Biden said in a statement that he had been briefed on the shooting and condemned it. “I’m grateful to hear that he’s safe and doing well,” he said, adding that “there’s no place for this kind of violence in America.”

    NYT. Sorry links are useless right now

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  234. @237 Thanks, Kevin M. I guess it was worth waking him up for.

    lloyd (c5341c)

  235. Biden better be grateful that Trump is okay. Only Trump can reelect him.

    nk (e38754)

  236. Looking at the Google map terrain and sat photos, there are a bunch of residential houses in the neighborhood. I’ve got no clue, it’s a sniper, it’s a dude in the crowd, that’s why instant “takes” from a distance are dumb.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  237. You declining the bet, Rip? I don’t blame you. Haley is the most loyal Trump sycophant in the world. Don Jr looks at her and wonders when she’s going to tone it down.

    Dustin (36e56d) — 7/13/2024 @ 5:01 pm

    On your terms, yes. I don’t think she would join the new administration, to preserve a misguided belief in her “viability” for 2028.

    There are more loyal sycophants in Republican Party-those like JD Vance who have a record of criticizing Trump in the past but now have groveled at his feet. We haven’t seen Haley on television promoting Trump on the weekend news shows.

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5)

  238. Looking at the video, it looks like Trump grabs his ear before he ducks. If that was a graze, he is one lucky dude.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  239. I’m sure the conspiracy theories have started.

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5)

  240. I expect there are some injuries. The shots were picked up by the pool microphone and sounded like semi-auto and small caliber, which suggests an AR-15 kind of thing. But it would be hard to sneak one of those in, so I guess we wait for the official story.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  241. If that was a graze, he is one lucky dude.

    And the people behind him, too.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  242. When do we find out the shooter was on a FBI/Secret Service watch list?

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5)

  243. @244 He missed, so we already know he’s not ex-Marine.

    lloyd (c5341c)

  244. Haley is the most loyal Trump sycophant in the world.

    You misspelled Tim Scott. I gotta say, Dustin, that you need to take off those fun-house glasses.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  245. I guess we wait for the “official” story.

    FIFY

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5)

  246. You know the drill. If we aren’t told his identity today, we instantly know a lot about him.

    lloyd (c5341c)

  247. He missed, so we already know he’s not ex-Marine.

    1) A disaffected trustifarian

    2) An illegal immigrant

    3) A Bernie Bro

    4) Someone trying to impress Taylor Swift.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  248. FIFY

    I thought that went without saying.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  249. There are more loyal sycophants in Republican Party-those like JD Vance who have a record of criticizing Trump in the past but now have groveled at his feet. We haven’t seen Haley on television promoting Trump on the weekend news shows.

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5) — 7/13/2024 @ 5:18 pm

    I’ll agree Haley is a second tier sycophant.

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5)

  250. @254 If (again IF) that account is legit, there are going to be a ton of questions, and you don’t need to be a conspiracy nut to ask them

    (love the Trump koozie)

    lloyd (c5341c)

  251. I’m sure the conspiracy theories have started.

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5) — 7/13/2024 @ 5:20 pm

    2 minutes later:

    When do we find out the shooter was on a FBI/Secret Service watch list?

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5) — 7/13/2024 @ 5:22 pm

    You never disappoint at the level you operate.

    BuDuh (e7676d)

  252. Secret service sniper position

    https://x.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1812282025451340258

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  253. On your terms, yes. I don’t think she would join the new administration, to preserve a misguided belief in her “viability” for 2028.

    There are more loyal sycophants in Republican Party-those like JD Vance who have a record of criticizing Trump in the past but now have groveled at his feet. We haven’t seen Haley on television promoting Trump on the weekend news shows.

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5) — 7/13/2024 @ 5:18 pm

    Not surprised at all you said you’d take the bet, but in reality, you knew I was correct.

    Haley loves Trump and her supporters were such a huge help to Trump. Every Haley vote that led to a delegate is a delegate sworn to Trump today. Haley will be rewarded for it.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  254. And we haven’t seen the 400 phone camera shots.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  255. Haley will be rewarded for it.

    Because of the double-secret plot to stop the DeSantis groundswell no doubt.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  256. Supposed eye witnesses:

    Dude with that hair and a beer pointing to the roof. He was more likely to be arrested by the cops. Secret service on the other hand…why weren’t they already on the roof? You can’t be everywhere, but there should be two rings of spotters, it looks like there was only one.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  257. Put some bleach on it, Klunk..

    BuDuh (e7676d)

  258. You misspelled Tim Scott. I gotta say, Dustin, that you need to take off those fun-house glasses.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/13/2024 @ 5:23 pm

    Tim Scott didn’t undergo all this effort to derail the only Trump threat in the election cycle. Haley is 100 billion times the sycophant Scott is.

    It takes a rudderless milquetoast like Haley to give us a Trump. Same thing happened in 2016. One on one, Trump has never won the most votes. He needs a little help.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  259. Because of the double-secret plot to stop the DeSantis groundswell no doubt.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/13/2024 @ 5:43 pm

    Um yes. Objectively yes. Haley spent tens of millions on attack ads only where Desantis had a shot of beating Trump. She did not campaign against Trump at all, and she ran ads in weird places where she had no shot… but where Desantis had a shot of upsetting Trump.

    Trump was already the incumbent (or at least previously elected prez) and beating him would have been a miracle. Haley made sure that simply was not possible.

    You seem pretty threatened by it, but you also were wrong about Haley endorsing Trump. She’s pledged all her delegates to Trump too. Why do that?

    Dustin (36e56d)

  260. Shots looked like they came from left to right almost parallel to stage and went over that area where the extraction took place. Trump was facing right at the shooter when shot. People were standing there but the misses went high because the shooter was on the flat roof of a one story and Trump was on an elevated platform.
    The dead spectator was moved from upper left corner of the stands and was probably hit when the shooter came under fire, possibly the shooter got hit and pulled it left and high.

    The Trump deep state folks (fringe version) are going to want to know where Peter Strzok was.

    Giant success for the Secret Service to have the shooter down nearly immediately, bigger failure it happened in the first place.
    If this had happened in September Trump wins in a landslide.

    That picture of Trump, bloodied but shaking his fist shouting “fight” fight” to the crowd is going to be everywhere for the next 3 months

    steveg (db5380)

  261. BuDuh, I’d say eat a turd, but that would be wrong. How about watch a video. You keep saying he didn’t say the thing he said, so cool.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  262. CBS is struggling with Trump’s Truth Social post that claims it was a bullet that hit his ear. They would like it to be a small tiny piece of glass shrapnel that barely touched him.

    BuDuh (e7676d)

  263. Doofuses like you, Klunk, are why poop like this happens.

    You spread lie and people dumber than you take action.

    Take a bow.

    BuDuh (e7676d)

  264. I pray, sincerely literally pray, this doesn’t lead the USA to a banana republic situation.

    Dustin (36e56d) — 7/13/2024 @ 4:36 pm

    We have a human vegetable “running” the country. Why do you think we aren’t already there?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  265. Geometry:

    If that was where he was at, that should have been way inside the security perimeter, and where a secret service observation point should have been. If it’s 125M then that’s point blank, you can’t buy an AR that wouldn’t shoot 4MOA at that range. 4 inch group at 100Y. He has sold his first, second, third born for luck. People miss all the time, but you don’t even need a precision rifle. Taking a headshot is a fallacy in the real world, but COD trained up a bunch of couch snipers.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  266. You spread lie and people dumber than you take action.

    Yup, every time you post.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  267. I want to thank The United States Secret Service, and all of Law Enforcement, for their rapid response on the shooting that just took place in Butler, Pennsylvania. Most importantly, I want to extend my condolences to the family of the person at the Rally who was killed, and also to the family of another person that was badly injured. It is incredible that such an act can take place in our Country. Nothing is known at this time about the shooter, who is now dead. I was shot with a bullet that pierced the upper part of my right ear. I knew immediately that something was wrong in that I heard a whizzing sound, shots, and immediately felt the bullet ripping through the skin. Much bleeding took place, so I realized then what was happening. GOD BLESS AMERICA!

    BuDuh (e7676d)

  268. Five days ago

    “So, we’re done talking about the debate, it’s time to put Trump in a bullseye,” Biden said.

    lloyd (c5341c)

  269. KevinM

    Just saw your geometry post.
    Am guessing the one story building the snipers were on is at best marginally higher that the building the shooter was on. The shooter probably knew his building was very parallel to the stage so he could crawl up using the ridge for concealment, pop up using his building as a square and be able to acquire the target quickly. The roof behind the shooter looks to be the highest on that building, and maybe the snipers were scanning there through scopes there and missed the broader view lower and to the left.

    steveg (db5380)

  270. Dustin, and I say this as a friend, I don’t feel threatened by any of this, but I am disappointed that this election is going to result in a wasted 4 years. You really need to go back and look at the timeline of DeSantis’ rise and fall and what accompanied it. DeSantis had cratered into also-ran before Haley entered the fray.

    What killed DeSantis was his small-ball demagoguery wrt Disney. It may have been big news in central Florida by it diminished him everywhere else. Once that happened, there was no coming back. Kinda like Rick Perry after he couldn’t name the three agae3ncies — he could be the best damn candidate but he pissed himself.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  271. We have a human vegetable “running” the country. Why do you think we aren’t already there?

    NJRob (eb56c3) — 7/13/2024 @ 6:00 pm

    Good point.

    Our presidency is in the hands of some secret committee that weren’t elected and are not very accountable. They don’t seem to mind whatsoever the damage they did to Biden’s reputation, such that it was. The radical trans rights stuff was WAY more extreme than Obama, who was saying marriage should be man+woman not long ago. I think Biden has been set to be replaced for quite a while now, but if there really is resistance to that, it’s because these folks lose their power the second the president has a stake in his or her reputation.

    It makes it REALLY hard to vote for democrats to save democracy, as they don’t really care about it.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  272. CBS is upset that Trump’s statement didn’t cool the rhetoric. He needs to calm his supporters apparently.

    BuDuh (e7676d)

  273. NYT has photo of bullet whizzing past Trump
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GSaOf5UWMAAXnMG?format=jpg&name=small

    steveg (db5380)

  274. What killed DeSantis was his small-ball demagoguery wrt Disney.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/13/2024 @ 6:07 pm

    Nah. That was awesome. I don’t care what I’m told to think about Desantis. He’s excellent. Unlike Haley, who was one of the worst governors in American history, and was openly corrupt with Boeing, and frankly stands for literally nothing.

    I can make my own mind up. Disney’s corruption is unacceptable and they can live with the same rules the rest of us do. The reason Disney lost was because the law generally can work if both sides fight.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  275. People miss all the time, but you don’t even need a precision rifle

    “He was shooting at the President”, said of Oswald and his masterful shooting with a bolt action rifle.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  276. It wasn’t a bullet that grazed his ear:

    NEW FROM PA STATE POLICE SOURCES:
    President Trump was not struck by a bullet, but hit by glass fragments believed to have come from the shattered teleprompter from the gunfire. They were real bullets. They hit at least 2 people behind or near the stage and possibly more.

    Dana (e8b04c)

  277. NYT has photo of bullet whizzing past Trump
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GSaOf5UWMAAXnMG?format=jpg&name=small

    steveg (db5380) — 7/13/2024 @ 6:11 pm

    wow

    CBS is upset that Trump’s statement didn’t cool the rhetoric. He needs to calm his supporters apparently.

    BuDuh (e7676d) — 7/13/2024 @ 6:10 pm

    Biden’s little press conference was awful. Wouldn’t even agree this was an assassination attempt. I realize Biden doesn’t know what day of the week it is, but this is the man responsible for protecting us from the most sophisticated enemies in the history of the world, and he simply cannot make a obvious decision. Yeah, Trump getting shot is an assassination attempt.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  278. DeSantis polling started to dive when Trump got indicted. Maybe just a coincidence, but I really don’t think so. Disney had already been baked in long before.

    lloyd (c5341c)

  279. Dustin, it doesn’t matter much what it means to you. It’s what it means to 100 million other people that matters, and they collectively yawned and said “Next!” after DeSantis got into the mud pit with Disney.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  280. It wasn’t a bullet that grazed his ear:

    NEW FROM PA STATE POLICE SOURCES:
    President Trump was not struck by a bullet, but hit by glass fragments believed to have come from the shattered teleprompter from the gunfire. They were real bullets. They hit at least 2 people behind or near the stage and possibly more.

    Dana (e8b04c) — 7/13/2024 @ 6:12 pm

    Maybe

    Or it was a bullet. The teleprompters look intact to me.

    I bet whatever cop is leaking that info has a BMI over 32.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  281. Dana (e8b04c) — 7/13/2024 @ 6:12 pm

    Fact checkers got him good this time!

    BuDuh (e7676d)

  282. ER doctor who was at the rally recounts trying to help injured spectator- says he saw blood and brain matter
    https://x.com/i/status/1812275692219847050

    steveg (db5380)

  283. DeSantis polling started to dive when Trump got indicted. Maybe just a coincidence, but I really don’t think so. Disney had already been baked in long before.

    lloyd (c5341c) — 7/13/2024 @ 6:13 pm

    Definitely wasn’t disney. Trump got a huge rally effect. I think that’s stupid, but it is what it is and we’re going to see much more of the persecution campaign. Trump’s going to be double digits ahead within two weeks. That’s why we’re hearing that it wasn’t ‘rape rape’ so to speak. It’s just shrapnel. Let’s all move on dot org.

    But I think Kevin’s point is that Desantis is a conservative. A lot of nevertrumpers are just using Trump’s trashiness as the best way to reject a populist movement that wants social conservatism. They are indeed nevertrump, but as Desantis is obviously better than Trump in the ways nevertrumpers claimed were a supreme problem, they have to tap dance a bit.

    And now we’ll hear the conclusion that Desantis is failed and horrible and a pathetic terrible dumb candidate because he dropped out when it was obvious he wasn’t going to beat the incumbent. That’s even dumber, but we’ll hear it.

    Why?

    Because that’s how the left plays this game.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  284. Dustin, it doesn’t matter much what it means to you.

    So why do Dustin’s opinions matter so much to you?

    BuDuh (e7676d)

  285. Because if it’s glass fragments from a bullet, and not a bullet, that makes it another Trump lie!!

    lloyd (c5341c)

  286. DeSantis polling started to dive when Trump got indicted. Maybe just a coincidence, but I really don’t think so. Disney had already been baked in long before.

    lloyd (c5341c) — 7/13/2024 @ 6:13 pm

    Correct

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  287. With the chaotic nature of campaigns, you just don’t get the same level of security you get in a presidential visit. I was in Brussels for the G7, obviously a different level of event, but we had SEAL Team 7, two squadrons of SFOD-D, a Ranger battalion on standby, about 500 secret service agents, 10k other G7 and NATO security force, Apache gunships, locked down location for 2 months…

    Put a local SWAT guy on the barn roof.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  288. Although lloyd has a point: The NY indictment locked Trump into the nomination. After that criticizing was party sedition.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  289. Put a local SWAT guy on the barn roof.

    Maybe they don’t trust other people with guns. Guarding Trump has got to be a head-on-a-swivel gig.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  290. Teleprompters…good?

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  291. Because if it’s glass fragments from a bullet, and not a bullet, that makes it another Trump lie!!

    lloyd (c5341c) — 7/13/2024 @ 6:18 pm

    Very irresponsible propaganda campaign to water down what just happened. All by anonymous sources, supposedly good ones, but could be totally fictional.

    We’ll hear a dozen more of these. It’s a damage control effort. Paid politicos are coming up with them as we speak.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  292. Yes, because guarding anyone else only requires tunnel vision and lack of situational awareness.

    🥴

    BuDuh (e7676d)

  293. So why do Dustin’s opinions matter so much to you?

    BuDuh (e7676d) — 7/13/2024 @ 6:18 pm

    Kevin’s a friend and I think his POV is so far from mine on what a piece of crap Nikki Haley is that he thinks I’ve lost my mind.

    And it’s getting more upsetting as all my wild and crazy predictions about how Haley is acting keep coming true.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  294. Very irresponsible propaganda campaign

    Or maybe just some clown who wants to feel important. Do you think that’s the message that Trump would want to go out? Or maybe “Takes a bullet and still ready to rock!”

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  295. Kevin’s a friend and I think his POV is so far from mine on what a piece of crap Nikki Haley is that he thinks I’ve lost my mind.

    Yup.

    And it’s getting more upsetting as all my wild and crazy predictions about how Haley is acting keep coming true.

    Nope.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  296. You should go on Twitter X and check out “BB Gun” wherein the feverish make their appearances

    steveg (db5380)

  297. Haley gave all her delegates to Trump, Kevin.

    You said she wouldn’t even endorse him. Come on.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  298. I once had a customer tell me that “only a true friend will tell you something you don’t want to here.” Then he pulled his account from me over some garbage one my employee started with one of his.

    I fixed the problem but it took over a year to get his business back. We probably talked once every 2-3 weeks in the meantime, as friends would do.

    Cheers to you and Kevin!

    BuDuh (e7676d)

  299. They said that Reagan didn’t have any center either. FDR Democrat who became a conservative. Signed one of the first abortion legalization bills then said he was against (but never once attended the annual Roe Day rally). Talked about limiting government spending then ran huge deficits.

    Compared to that, what is “winning the cold war” actually?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  300. …don’t want to hear…

    BuDuh (e7676d)

  301. https://x.com/DrewHolden360/status/1812261854783434752

    As if anyone needs any more reason to hate the media.

    These were the initial “hot takes” from the usual sources at CNN, USA Today, LA Times and NBC News.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  302. Or maybe just some clown who wants to feel important. Do you think that’s the message that Trump would want to go out? Or maybe “Takes a bullet and still ready to rock!”

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/13/2024 @ 6:25 pm

    I know the kinds of cops who leak info to the media. Always fat. Always want to feel important.

    Trump’s message is “fight” and “look at this real threat to democracy” by quoting Biden saying “We have to stop him” and “put trump in the bullseye” and all these congressional staffers saying they wish the shooter did a better job.

    Persecution politics work. They work better on losers who are in constant trouble. Desantis is not persecuted, even though he’s the war vet, he’s also got all his crap together in life. He isn’t a politician who got rich from boeing like that piece of garbage nikki haley did. Persecution politics works and will drive ragey click bait.

    Hence the democrat machine saying this wasn’t as bad as we thought.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  303. You said she wouldn’t even endorse him. Come on.

    That’s not endorsement, that’s a graceful surrender. Party unity and all that. Unlike some of us, a professional politician can’t change firms. They either have to accept the party’s decisions or they have to retire.

    Tell me, is DeSantis holding onto his delegates and refusing to endorse? No, wait, he endorsed Trump while others were still running. Haley has not actually “endorsed”, saying her supporters ought to decide for themselves. She herself will vote for Trump (because if she doesn’t see “retiring” above).

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  304. Hence the democrat machine saying this wasn’t as bad as we thought.

    My mistake, I thought it was the Trump PR that was being pointed at.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  305. That’s not endorsement, that’s a graceful surrender.

    She also literally endorsed him!

    Come on.

    And that’s not graceful. A lot of those delegates were conned by Haley into voting for anybody but Trump. They did not want to be represented as Trump support. That is profoundly insulting and totally unnecessary given the numbers of Trump delegates. It was fealty to her boss. Given Trump actually has all that legal trouble, it was also stupid for the party.

    Bro, wake up. Haley has literally worked for Trump and obviously intends to do so.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  306. Col. I was thinking about billionaires using Academi for security and remembered that unless your billions came about via celebrity, giving you no choice, it is best not to be a celebrity or to behave like one. Life is so much more peaceful
    I’ve had clients that had four tough, competent professionals around them at all times, and on the other hand have a client (who is richer than Trump’s wildest claims) walk up and say hi to me inside the convenience store. He paid for his stuff left, walked over to the beach in his shorts and t-shirt by himself.

    steveg (db5380)

  307. She also literally endorsed him!

    Endorsement is the suggestion that all her supporters now support Trump. Please link to where she did that. Releasing the delegates is simply not being a dead-ender.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  308. Bro, wake up. Haley has literally worked for Trump and obviously intends to do so.

    So, the DeSantis WOKE brigade. This is why we can’t have nice things.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  309. The media supports every attempt to go after gun companies and blame them for every shooting. How about holding the media accountable for their incendiary rhetoric?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  310. He paid for his stuff left, walked over to the beach in his shorts and t-shirt by himself.

    I haven’t seen that, but I had a long conversation in a hotel lobby with a Microsoft billionaire at one point in my career. Maybe there was a security bubble, but I didn’t see it. And yes, he wasn’t famous unless you knew the MS hierarchy.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  311. https://x.com/dbongino/status/1812295745921257983

    I want to repeat, and can absolutely confirm, the USSS Director Kim Cheatle has repeatedly turned down requests for a larger security footprint around President Trump. Despite knowing the threat level is catastrophic.
    Resign tonight.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  312. The media supports every attempt to go after gun companies and blame them for every shooting.

    If this election goes as badly as it has been, it will be Trump calling for laws against AR-15s. I note he took all the pro-gun planks out of the platform.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  313. Endorsement is the suggestion that all her supporters now support Trump. Please link to where she did that. Releasing the delegates is simply not being a dead-ender.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/13/2024 @ 6:49 pm

    “We need a president who will hold our enemies to account, secure our border, cut our debt, and get our economy back on track,” Haley said. “I encourage my delegates to support Donald Trump next week in Milwaukee.”

    https://apnews.com/article/nikki-haley-donald-trump-delegates-republicans-rnc-2024-263978b78aadd1d4bbd043df23fc8e39

    endorse
    verb
    en·​dorse in-ˈdȯrs en-
    variants or less commonly indorse
    in-ˈdȯrs
    endorsed also indorsed; endorsing also indorsing; endorses also indorses
    Synonyms of endorse
    transitive verb

    1
    a
    : to write on the back of
    especially : to sign one’s name as payee on the back of (a check) in order to obtain the cash or credit represented on the face
    b
    : to inscribe (one’s signature) on a check, bill, or note
    c
    : to inscribe (something, such as an official document) with a title or memorandum
    d
    : to make over to another (the value represented in a check, bill, or note) by inscribing one’s name on the document
    e
    : to acknowledge receipt of (a sum specified) by one’s signature on a document
    2
    a
    : to approve openly
    endorse an idea

    especially : to express support or approval of publicly and definitely
    endorse a mayoral candidate

    NN

    Former South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley said Tuesday that she is releasing her delegates to the Republican National Convention and urging them to support former President Donald Trump.

    “The nominating convention is a time for Republican unity.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  314. Pretty cramped definition. How long did it take you to find it?

    …endorse has retained its strong meaning: putting your name behind a candidate means, figuratively, carrying that candidate’s record, reputation, and actions on your back.

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/wordplay/endorse-presidential-candidate-meaning

    She has not done that. Saying that she herself chooses to vote for Trump, and — moments before the convention — releasing her delegates, falls well short of “putting [her] name behind a candidate.” She has never asked a single supporter, not even her delegates, to vote for Trump.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  315. One spectator was killed and two others were critically injured in the incident, which is under investigation as an attempted assassination.

    (WSJ)

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  316. We came within an inch of our nation being on fire tonight.

    Think about that next time you proclaim Trump will end the Republic.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  317. Now they say that maybe one spectator was not killed.

    The gunman was outside the security perimeter. He was seen before by aa person who reported him to the police moving from rooftop to rooftop (he did not see a gun)

    Donald Trump was nicked in the ear. He’s checked out of the hospital and is heading toward his next event.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  318. Several different names have been circulating for the gunman but WABC radio is New York is not saying anything till they know more,

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  319. 323. More like a centimeter, The gunman got off only one shot before Trump ducked behind the podium or was moved away by the Secret Service,

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  320. We came within an inch of our nation being on fire tonight.

    Think about that next time you proclaim Trump will end the Republic.

    NJRob,

    Trump tried to end the Republic. I will not let partisans like you try to bully me into refraining from speaking that truth.

    It’s not something I really think appropriate to dwell on right now. But I am going to push back on your highly irresponsible and inappropriate suggestion, totally unfounded in any facts that we know, that people who spoke the truth about Trump are in any way responsible for something shooting at him.

    You might want to log off.

    Patterico (8a74f7)

  321. Patterico,

    you are wrong.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  322. The WaPo comment section is exactly what you’d expect.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  323. Trump tried to end the Republic.

    This is overwrought. He had utterly no chance of doing that, nor was it his goal. I am sorry that you see our nation as some weak sister.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  324. steveg (db5380) — 7/13/2024 @ 5:49 pm

    That picture of Trump, bloodied but shaking his fist shouting “fight” fight” to the crowd is going to be everywhere for the next 3 months

    In 1912, Theodore Rooevelt finished his speech – and he had a bullet in him!

    https://www.history.com/news/shot-in-the-chest-100-years-ago-teddy-roosevelt-kept-on-talking

    Theodore Roosevelt’s opening line was hardly remarkable for a presidential campaign speech: “Friends, I shall ask you to be as quiet as possible.” His second line, however, was a bombshell.

    “I don’t know whether you fully understand that I have just been shot.”

    Clearly, Roosevelt had buried the lede. The horrified audience in the Milwaukee Auditorium on October 14, 1912, gasped as the former president unbuttoned his vest to reveal his bloodstained shirt. “It takes more than that to kill a bull moose,” the wounded candidate assured them. He reached into his coat pocket and pulled out a bullet-riddled, 50-page speech. Holding up his prepared remarks, which had two big holes blown through each page, Roosevelt continued. “Fortunately I had my manuscript, so you see I was going to make a long speech, and there is a bullet—there is where the bullet went through—and it probably saved me from it going into my heart. The bullet is in me now, so I cannot make a very long speech, but I will try my best.”

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  325. If this election goes as badly as it has been, it will be Trump calling for laws against AR-15s. I note he took all the pro-gun planks out of the platform.

    This.

    I’m already getting texts from by one issue 2A friends and they think this is horrible for the gun rights community. They already view Trump poorly from the whole:

    “Well, I’m looking to do background checks,” Trump said. “I think background checks are important. I don’t want to put guns into the hands of mentally unstable people or people with rage or hate, sick people. I don’t want to — I’m all in favor of it.”

    “There’s a great appetite — and I mean a very strong appetite — for background checks. And I think we can bring up background checks like we’ve never had before. I think both Republican and Democrat are getting close to a bill on — they’re doing something on background checks.”

    and

    “I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida … to go to court would have taken a long time,” Trump said at a meeting with lawmakers on school safety and gun violence.

    Take the guns first, go through due process second,” Trump said.

    Literally 5 texts from folks talking about how Trump is just a New Yorker on gun rights.

    Not sure what that means though, they all think the Biden admin has allowed the GOP and judiciary to tack hard towards gun rights, while Trump really didn’t do much. They’re not voting for Biden, so if they’re one issue, they’re all in on not voting for prez I guess.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  326. This is overwrought. He had utterly no chance of doing that, nor was it his goal. I am sorry that you see our nation as some weak sister.

    “He had utterly no chance of that” (whether you agree with it or not, and I don’t) is logically irrelevant to whether he tried. “You see our nation as a weak sister” is similarly irrelevant.

    “Nor was it his goal.”

    Kevin.

    Do you think it was Trump’s goal to take office despite having lost the election?

    If you don’t, this conversation is over because there is no reasoning with someone who rejects the obvious.

    If you do, well, that’s what I mean by trying to end the Republic. A presidential candidate who tries to steal an election is trying to end our system of government.

    Patterico (8a74f7)

  327. Patterico,

    you are wrong.

    As the guy said in Blazing Saddles:

    Now who can argue with that?

    Patterico (fd8fde)

  328. My view:

    If you loudly and vigorously speak the truth when criticizing someone, you bear no responsibility for some other whack job taking matters into their own hands and engaging in violence.

    If you loudly and vigorously lie when criticizing someone, and someone else hears your lies and is motivated to take matters into their own hands and engage in violence, they are still primarily responsible, and wholly legally responsible. But you are a piece of garbage and you have some moral responsibility.

    I do not have a scrap of moral responsibiliity for today. Nor does anyone else who speaks the truth about Donald Trump. What that truth is, I have said before, and will say again in the future quite vigorously. I do not intend to dwell on today any more than is necessary, given that he has been shot, and I kind of resent being forced to talk about it now by partisans like NJRob who are trying to shut down honest talk about the danger he poses.

    Patterico (fd8fde)

  329. Kevin M is merely arguing that there was no way Trump could succeed in what he was trying to do – continue in office peacefully (and I can add unpeacefully would likely only end with him in jail or dead after a very short civil war) so there was no danger to the survival of the republic.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  330. Pretty cramped definition. How long did it take you to find it?

    …endorse has retained its strong meaning: putting your name behind a candidate means, figuratively, carrying that candidate’s record, reputation, and actions on your back.

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/wordplay/endorse-presidential-candidate-meaning

    She has not done that. Saying that she herself chooses to vote for Trump, and — moments before the convention — releasing her delegates, falls well short of “putting [her] name behind a candidate.” She has never asked a single supporter, not even her delegates, to vote for Trump.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/13/2024 @ 7:06 pm

    That’s the first result.

    I think endorsement does mean expressing a preference.

    However, Haley did quote “urge” her delegates to vote for Trump, because we should be quote “united.”

    I think she endorsed Trump by any definition.

    I also think she’s two-faced and I understand why some still think Haley doesn’t support Trump. I can find EXCELLENT quotes where Haley condemns Trump. There is evidence she holds almost any position short of actual lefty stuff. This is why I don’t like Romney/Haley etc.

    I think Trump is every bit as bad as I ever said he was, and I think the USA, and the GOP, and you, had a chance to support the best alternative in a very long time, and we blew it. Because of disney! Which sucks!

    What Trump is turning into is worse every day. A Trump who has more legal protection, and more rage, who hasn’t even drawn first blood, is very dangerous. We should have nominated Desantis. I will say it again.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  331. If any truth about Donald Trump contributed to this it was people saying that Trump is leading in all the polls and Biden won’t quit. Who was it that said that Biden had zero chance of winning?

    https://www.msnbc.com/deadline-white-house/watch/-his-chances-are-zero-he-needs-to-drop-out-biden-s-candidacy-viability-remains-in-peril-214690885681

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  332. Kevin M is merely arguing that there was no way Trump could succeed in what he was trying to do – continue in office peacefully (and I can add unpeacefully would likely only end with him in jail or dead after a very short civil war) so there was no danger to the survival of the republic.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 7/13/2024 @ 7:41 pm

    I personally think we do need to consciously cool down the rhetoric, and wouldn’t be surprised if there are multiple serious attempts on both candidates’ lives, and that this is both a threat to democracy and a great way to cause tremendously bad things in our communities.

    I also think Trump wouldn’t be as bothered by a great change, with great harm to our republic. Other leaders have done this. It feels like we’re in the run up to this.

    However, the grift, Don Jr being the next nominee, the election process, the financial value of being on the losing side in American politics. There are those reasons Trump could just walk away in four years.

    It will be a democrat president in four years, ready to enact a lot of awful consequences. I note that the courts have tons of far more lefty nominees today because Trump led to this weird shadow Biden administration.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  333. Who was it that said that Biden had zero chance of winning?

    Everybody

    Dustin (36e56d)

  334. Do you think it was Trump’s goal to take office despite having lost the election?

    I think he thought he had really won the election. I know that sounds crazy, but people’s motivations are generally not “I want to be a bad guy.” And then he proceeded down the rabbit hole. I have more issue with the sycophants who helped.

    Now is this a reason to not want him as president by itself. Probably. But what I want left the scene months ago.

    I also don’t want Kamala Harris and her socialist wing who might not want to end the Republic, just Capitalism and the right to the fruits of your labor. Maybe that’s overwrought, too, but we all fear what we fear. Unlike Trump, she knows how to work the system.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  335. I think he thought he had really won the election.

    You should re-read the piece I wrote about the January 6 indictment where I laid out all the evidence that he knew he lost. Like when Pence didn’t go along with the scheme to steal it, and Trump said: “You’re too honest.”

    He has conned you.

    Patterico (fd8fde)

  336. Now who can argue with that?

    I was thinking more of the Argument Clinic.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  337. I think he thought he had really won the election. I know that sounds crazy, but people’s motivations are generally not “I want to be a bad guy.”

    He is a criminal. Do you think every robber really believes the stuff he is stealing is actually his? Sometimes people are just evil.

    Patterico (fd8fde)

  338. Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 7/13/2024 @ 7:41 pm

    Yes. Now, that’s not a great endorsement for Trump in 2024, of course. It’s just that the danger to the Republic from any single person or movement is minimal. Other things, like free enterprise and private property are far more fragile these days, as they’ve been hacked at be very busy people for a century now.

    Probably the worst threat to the Republic was in the 1930s, when Huey Long was going to run at FDR from the Left.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  339. Now who can argue with that?

    I was thinking more of the Argument Clinic.

    Authentic frontier gibberish.

    Patterico (8a74f7)

  340. It’s just that the danger to the Republic from any single person or movement is minimal.

    That is self-evidently false when the single person is the president of the United States. And when he engages in a serious conspiracy to steal an election he lost.

    All it took was Mike Pence standing up to him. If he hadn’t? God only knows what would have happened.

    And when he gets into office again with the Get Out of Jail Free card he has just been handed by the Supreme Court, he WILL commit more crimes, and the Supreme Court will look really bad, and deserve to.

    Patterico (8a74f7)

  341. Anyway, I’m glad nobody around here is mocking Trump over this, you know, like he did with Nancy Pelosi’s husband, who was actually very badly hurt.

    Patterico (8a74f7)

  342. Viden talked to Trump and also the Governor of Pennsylvania and Mayor of Butler.

    RFK Jr says we need to tone down the vitriol. BTW he does not have Secret Service protection.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  343. He is a criminal.

    So were the Kennedy clan (who fudged an election). And LBJ (who actually DID steal an election). And Nixon, or course. Clinton committed perjury, witness tampering and intimidation, and mostly got away with it. Yet he was a decent president.

    Our system expects that — some of the Founders were criminals, too. Who was it who said the system should get bad people do the right thing rather than expect to elect good people? Milton Friedman?

    We will manage to get through a Trump term and survive. We might even learn something about giving too much power to people.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  344. @342. “the piece I wrote about the January 6 indictment”

    Would you happen to have a link to that post Mr. Patterico?

    Praying for Trump and his supporters, and for the country at large.

    JRH (c2c44f)

  345. RFK Jr says we need to tone down the vitriol. BTW he does not have Secret Service protection.

    As long as he stays away from Big Pharma locations, he should be fine.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  346. You should re-read the piece I wrote about the January 6 indictment where I laid out all the evidence that he knew he lost.

    I have no idea what goes on in that pachinko mind.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  347. Would you happen to have a link to that post Mr. Patterico?

    https://patterico.substack.com/p/fine-ill-write-about-the-federal

    Patterico (8a74f7)

  348. BTW, I was going to write in “Nikki Haley” but now I think I’ll write in “Ron DeSantis”, just for Dustin.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  349. I’m glad nobody around here is mocking Trump over this, you know, like he did with Nancy Pelosi’s husband, who was actually very badly hurt.

    I think that Trump is a huge reason for our foul national mood.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  350. So were the Kennedy clan (who fudged an election). And LBJ (who actually DID steal an election). And Nixon, or course. Clinton committed perjury, witness tampering and intimidation, and mostly got away with it. Yet he was a decent president.

    I’m not entirely clear on the proof that Kennedy stole (or “fudged”) the 1960 election. People argue about it a lot and while Daley was a crook for sure, I’m not a historian of the extent to which JFK himself was behind it. (I am unpersuaded by the whole “any fraud didn’t matter” thing if it was a concerted effort to steal the whole thing and not just the typical small potatoes fraud that happens in every election.)

    Yup, LBJ definitely stole his first Senate election. No doubt about that. And Nixon and Clinton were crooks.

    If we have crooks in office this often, it’s genius giving presidents a Get Out of Jail Free card. Great job, John Roberts!

    We might even learn something about giving too much power to people.

    You’re damn right we will. The problem is, we won’t be able to fix what’s broken once we learn it.

    Patterico (8a74f7)

  351. I think that Trump is a huge reason for our foul national mood.

    He’s an atrocious human being. And a danger to the Republic.

    Patterico (8a74f7)

  352. And when he gets into office again with the Get Out of Jail Free card he has just been handed by the Supreme Court, he WILL commit more crimes, and the Supreme Court will look really bad, and deserve to.

    Yes, but so will 3 generations of legislators who have piled up powers at the feet of the Executive. Getting rid of the Legislative Veto after granting all that lawmaking power to the Executive was probably the worst, but maybe all the trade and tariff power comes next.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  353. I’m not a historian of the extent to which JFK himself was behind it.

    Joe, not Jack. And I said fudged because it only got him the popular vote. The electoral vote didn’t need Illinois.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  354. This is the “good and hard” part Mencken mentioned.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  355. Joe Kennedy was also a literal gangster during Prohibition.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  356. What’s the stakes of your bet? I say whoever loses the bet limits their comments to one a day for one year.

    Dustin (36e56d) — 7/13/2024 @ 4:06 pm

    Considering how often you comment nowadays and how often Rip does, did you really think your proposed bet was on equal terms? It would be like Trump and Biden making a bet, the loser of which would have to stop Tweeting, or in Trump’s case, “Truthing.” If tweaking Rip with the lopsidedness was your point, then well played. But if you really thought you were offering a fair bet, then not so much.

    lurker (c23034)

  357. Patterico (8a74f7) — 7/13/2024 @ 8:00 pm

    All it took was Mike Pence standing up to him. If he hadn’t? God only knows what would have happened.

    The ruling of the Chair would have been appealed and overturned.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  358. It appears that someone might have made a decision to save Our Democracy based on the Hitler moral imperative.
    Others see it like when a gang shot caller gets winged on his porch.

    There is an old saying that if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail- but you can also call something a nail, often and loud and eventually someone will show up with a hammer and have a go

    steveg (db5380)

  359. Latest news: There will be a press conference in about 15 minutes in Butler, Pennsylvania at which presumably we will learn more than the gunman was a man and is dead, and got off four shots in total, and that one spectator was killed and two are seriously injured and Donald Trump was injured in the upper portion of his ear.

    There were several young men sitting under a tree where they could hear Donald Trump but not see him and they spotted av man crawling on a roof with a rifle who was about 500 feet from the podium They attempted and maybe succeeded in contacting the police but if they did the police didn’t know where he was and couldn’t find him. They were going to wrong rooftops.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  360. Momento mori

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  361. The ruling of the Chair would have been appealed and overturned.

    Exactly. Chairmen may seem to have all kinds of power, but it rests on the majority of the body going along. Chair a large meeting under Robert’s Rules and you will find this out.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  362. Dominic Carter said earlier on WABC radio that Trump was heading back to the White House and one man, deranged or not, decided “No, he’s not.” (not 100% correct quote, but the end is more accurate)

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  363. I would co-sign and… *ahem*… “endorse” all of Patterico’s comments in this thread, but that would only diminish their persuasiveness. But seriously, well said. Every word.

    lurker (c23034)

  364. got off four shots in total,

    I guess the rest of them were going the other way.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  365. Pence’s actual title was president of the Senate

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  366. Joe Kennedy was also a literal gangster during Prohibition.

    Fred Trump was a literal Klansman in the 20’s.

    Trump has plenty of sins to claim of his own without needing to take his daddy’s.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  367. BTW, if anyone is looking for a good AI application, please make one that corrects my constant typing errors. DOuble-caps, swapepd letters going form oen ahnd to the otehr. Etc.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  368. I was thinking about the “me too” movement and realized that many people have heard Trump is a criminal and have decided that if Trump is a criminal, me too. (I must be too)

    One thing I learned about Trump today is that his fighting spirit is now one of the things I can say I know about him that is true. He got a nick on the ear, not a creased skull, but he got up fighting

    steveg (db5380)

  369. Fred Trump was a literal Klansman in the 20’s.

    So was President Wilson.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  370. President Biden was in Delaware . He decided to head back to Washington and will arrive about 12:30 am eastern.

    This all happened about 6 pm EDT about 7 minutes into a Donald Trump monologue,

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  371. I was thinking about the “me too” movement and realized that many people have heard Trump is a criminal and have decided that if Trump is a criminal, me too. (I must be too)

    Hmmm. In the misty (and statutorily limited) past, I have done things I am not proud of, and which were doubtless crimes. Not to the extent that I got caught doing it, of course, which is probably most people’s saving grace.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  372. I’ve been using CoPilot and VtT in Word, cannot use Edge, and it’s incredibly accurate. Google Gemini is very good, but I just feel iffy on Google’s data use strategy and Chrome. Microsoft’s isn’t great either, but we’re basing our new data modeling tool on the MS/OpenAI model so we’re already in on it.

    At the end of the day, if you’re on the internet your data is a training model.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  373. The ruling of the Chair would have been appealed and overturned.

    The last Vice-President who tried to be boss of the Senate was John Adams.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  374. Wilson liked the movie that glorified the original Ku Klux Klan (Birth of a Nation)

    Fred Trump may or may not have taken part in some Klan type rally I think in 1927. The family was of German origin (albeit expelled from Germany in 1905. Fred’s father was maybe one of the first to die of the flu

    The family claimed to be of Swedish origin. After World War II, Fred Trump lived it all down by favoring renting to Jews and supporting a synagogue in his development or one of them)

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  375. Like school shootings coming in clusters, I worry about copycats that get inspired by these events.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  376. Like school shootings coming in clusters, I worry about copycats that get inspired by these events.

    Or some Trumpie trying to “get even”

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  377. Considering how often you comment nowadays and how often Rip does, did you really think your proposed bet was on equal terms? It would be like Trump and Biden making a bet, the loser of which would have to stop Tweeting, or in Trump’s case, “Truthing.” If tweaking Rip with the lopsidedness was your point, then well played. But if you really thought you were offering a fair bet, then not so much.

    lurker (c23034) — 7/13/2024 @ 8:34 pm

    I think you generally got it, actually.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  378. I wonder if the shooter just got done reading The New Republic.

    lloyd (d8f507)

  379. Lloyd,

    thank you. The left will never stop their incitement. It’s their only way to power.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  380. “The gunman who tried to assassinate Donald Trump has been identified as Thomas Matthew Crooks, according to reports.

    The 20-year-old from Bethel Park, Pennsylvania, fired shots at the former president from a roof 130 yards away from the rally stage.

    Crooks killed a member of the rally crowd, shot Trump through the year and was then shot and killed by Secret Service agents.”

    From Daily Mail

    lloyd (d8f507)

  381. It’d be weird if I framed a person as being a Hitleresque fascist figure for 8 years and then an avowed anti-fascist took a shot at him. This is a conundrum! How could this happen? I am but one grain of sand in the hourglass

    steveg (db5380)

  382. Man, they are throwing the secret service under the bus, they’re not even at the press conference.

    A kinetic campaign is something very difficult to secure, if you’re securing 2-4 events, and travel between them a day, you’re talking about hundreds to thousands of security people, so it just can’t be as secure as possible, just as practical as possible.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  383. @387 NJRob, the pile of receipts is enormous but we’ll get through them all.

    lloyd (d8f507)

  384. Man, they are throwing the secret service under the bus, they’re not even at the press conference.

    A kinetic campaign is something very difficult to secure, if you’re securing 2-4 events, and travel between them a day, you’re talking about hundreds to thousands of security people, so it just can’t be as secure as possible, just as practical as possible.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 7/13/2024 @ 9:23 pm

    Nah

    When failure is not an option, and certainly when we’re talking about securing the democratic process for the leadership of the free world, failure is not an option, then you look at each of these venues and think “how would I do it?”

    There don’t appear to be a ton of roofs nearby. This one was perfect and had a ladder leading up. The crowd started shouting ‘he’s got a gun’ before the protective detail spotted him, an amazing failure, and the shouts are probably why Trump wasn’t killed (because it rushed things).

    this is the level of screw up is catastrophic and will inspire more attempts, massively increasing the workload for future events.

    Attempting excuses is not the solution.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  385. (Nikki Haley) has never asked a single supporter, not even her delegates, to vote for Trump.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/13/2024 @ 7:06 pm

    First, how can you be so certain that she has “never” asked a single supporter to vote for Trump? Are you privy to her conversations? This speculation without any basis.

    Secondly, after releasing her delegates, is quoted as saying:

    I encourage my delegates to support Donald Trump next week in Milwaukee.”

    I’m sure you’ll quibble about the distinction without a difference between “encourage” and “endorse”, but there really isn’t any.

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5)

  386. As I said, Rip, this is a surrender. Not doing that would have been Kucinich-level dead-ending. Did you expect her to have her name put in nomination?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  387. Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 7/13/2024 @ 9:23 pm

    With all of drone technology that is commercially available you would think the Secret Service or FBI could use it to surveil surrounding roof tops.

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5)

  388. DeSantis, that valiant anti-Trump fighter, gave away his delegates in January and endorsed Trump while others were still challenging. Haley waited until the literal eve of the Convention to do the inevitable. Their vote for Trump is also inevitable as only Trump will be on the ballot.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  389. With all of drone technology that is commercially available you would think the Secret Service or FBI could use it to surveil surrounding roof tops.

    Indeed. Have a few agents on the ground to launch them and a bunch of operators back at HQ to spot problems. It wasn’t that they could not see him — they killed him after a couple of seconds — but they did not detect him until he started shooting. He should have been stopped while he was still climbing up.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  390. Perhaps now republicans will stop suggesting 2nd amendment solutions and remedies like sharon engle for harry ried and trump for clinton. Also mtg on killing prominent democrats.

    asset (30f926)

  391. Did you expect her to have her name put in nomination?

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/13/2024 @ 9:52 pm

    Not really. Despite her well-founded criticisms of Trump, I was not surprised by her endorsement. What was surprising is that she went through the humiliation of endorsing Trump and releasing her delegates but then not being able to speak at convention (though reportedly that may change.) I’ll bet her time slot will be some time in mid-afternoon when nobody, including delegates, will be paying attention.

    As I noted throughout the primaries, she is interested in what’s best for herself, and she took positions she thought would help her campaign, but reversed herself after criticism (for example, her plan to ban internet anonymity.)

    The reason I disagree with Dustin is she will serve in a Trump administration position is that she probably wants to avoid the stench of serving if she wants to run in 2028. But then again she will do whatever serves her career needs best.

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5)

  392. Bad news for biden campaign planning to run on trump is hitler and a threat to our democracy. Now they will have to tone rhetoric down or get another candidate.

    asset (30f926)

  393. Rip Murdock (dbfed5) — 7/13/2024 @ 10:16 pm

    Nobody will take Haley seriously as a presidential candidate in 2028 if she ends up in the Trump Administration. There will be far more credible MAA candidates available to run.

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5)

  394. Bad news for biden campaign planning to run on trump is hitler and a threat to our democracy.

    They did that against Dewey, who had jailed the leaders of the Nazi Bund, and they did that against Goldwater despite his running mate having been a Nuremberg prosecutor. Why not again? It worked.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  395. Nobody will take Haley seriously as a presidential candidate in 2028 if she ends up in the Trump Administration

    Frankly, anyone who survives Trump 2.0 will be viable.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  396. she took positions she thought would help her campaign

    Damn her!

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  397. But then again she will do whatever serves her career needs best.

    Obviously you’ve never worked in DC, or politics anywhere.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  398. I am reasonably sure that DeSantis will support Trump to the hilt. Haley actually has some values (e.g. supporting NATO and Ukraine) that she won’t sacrifice on the altar.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  399. We already have Truthers

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  400. DeSantis, that valiant anti-Trump fighter, gave away his delegates in January and endorsed Trump while others were still challenging. Haley waited until the literal eve of the Convention to do the inevitable. Their vote for Trump is also inevitable as only Trump will be on the ballot.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/13/2024 @ 9:54 pm

    Yeah he endorsed Trump.

    It isn’t difficult to admit, in good faith. And I think that’s weak. But it’s also true.

    I have no idea what your rationale is for defending Haley doing the same. She’s absolutely terrible – the worst of the GOP. A bridge burner who is why Trump is viable in the first place, like Romney.

    At least Desantis stands for something. There’s a lot of overlap between that and the populist movement that has evolved into MAGA, but only for good reasons. Not this cynical triangulation thing you are admitting fuels Haley’s flip floppery.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  401. Perhaps now republicans will stop suggesting 2nd amendment solutions and remedies like sharon engle for harry ried and trump for clinton. Also mtg on killing prominent democrats.

    asset (30f926) — 7/13/2024 @ 10:11 pm

    I wish.

    The reality will be darker. They will feel justified. Biden absolutely should be cautious in his events. Since 2020 everyone forgot how to do their job. The same Ray Charles protective detail that Trump got – Biden is getting it too. The idiots who would act violently but were deterred by the notion of an invincible protective detail know better now.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  402. Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/13/2024 @ 9:57 pm

    . It wasn’t that they could not see him — they killed him after a couple of seconds

    He was killed by (2?) Secret Servicemen who were stationed on the top of a building across the way. They blew his head off. But none of them came on to the roof for minutes. They were very careful about approaching.

    — but they did not detect him until he started shooting. He should have been stopped while he was still climbing up.

    Some authorities had been warned about him 2 or 3 minutes before. The BBC has an interview with one of the young men who (also outside the perimeter) saw him. They saw some sort of police down below not knowing where to look. I think the young men did not see the Secret Service snipers. They wondered why Trump wasn’t pulled off the podium after they had been warned while the search for a possible gunman was going on.

    The statement they need to identify him is bureaucratic nonsense. Maybe he had no state ID or gun license on him but he probably had a debit or credit card or old school ID or a cellphone registered in his name, NBC News knew that there were police stationed outside of the address where he was reputed to live.

    Only the British press and the New York Post publicized his name. Now mind you about 5 wrong names were coming in to WABC radio with maybe some quickly generated fake websites.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  403. At the press conference they could not confirm the report of being told about the gunman, yes or no. Very little was revealed except that all 3 victims were men. The Secret Service did not take part in the post-midnight press conference possibly because only one person is allowed to talk to the press.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  404. At least 3 shots went off right away. Trump was not removed so fast and it took even longer because he said “Let me get my shoes.” They came off?

    Then there;s the thing where they checked abandoned packages for bombs,

    This is still an active ci=rime scene they said (FBI and PSP) 6 hours later, FBI did not get involved until after it was over.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  405. They should not have needed to be told. As someone said earlier, drones should have had the whole place surveilled. You can have professional drone operators in a trailer or even offsite and they should be able to spot anyone before they get in position.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  406. The Secret Service isn’t going to investigate itself here.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  407. The gunman’s body (that’s what they are using for his location) was 148 yards from where Trump was speaking.

    Gunman was 20 years old (or thereabouts) and lived 40 miles from the rally site, Rally was probaably advertised for months to get a huge crowd.

    Spectator killed was killed instaantly by a shot to the head,,

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  408. There were drones at the New Jersey rally during the trial.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  409. With drones, from a Reaper to a cheap DJI isn’t that you can’t use them, I’d bet they had lots of quad copter camera drones up, but if that building was in the security ring where foot patrols were state and local, and the drones were secret service, then getting coms between them takes time, a minute is reasonable.

    What’s not, is why didn’t that location actually have a detail on it, it was a prime perch. You could look out at the party scene in the field behind security.

    As far as how he could get off 4 shots in a few seconds with an AR, cake. Put the optics dot on the target at 125M and pull the trigger, 4 times. An AR has about as little recoil you can get, 5.56 direct impeachment is supremely soft shooting, less than basically anything outside of a 22LR, well 5.56 is a 22 cartridge (.223). 9mm subgun is much more bouncy. You can easily get 4 aimed rounds in 3 seconds. Check out Jerry Miculek doing the Texas 3 gun. He’s one of the fastest, best shooters of all time, but that’s what you can do with a little practice.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  410. Rep. Mike Waltz:

    “I have very reliable sources telling me there have been repeated requests for stronger secret service protection for President Trump.

    Denied by Secretary Mayorkas.”

    lloyd (d8f507)

  411. Some authorities had been warned about him 2 or 3 minutes before. The BBC has an interview with one of the young men who (also outside the perimeter) saw him. They saw some sort of police down below not knowing where to look. I think the young men did not see the Secret Service snipers. They wondered why Trump wasn’t pulled off the podium after they had been warned while the search for a possible gunman was going on

    They did see the Secret Service, who were up front near the stage, and the Secret Service saw them, and they were trying to signal them but the Secret Service didn’t understand. The Secret Service could not see the gunman because he was hidden by some obstruction (on the building?) The police on the ground didn’t seem to respond to them. It is not clear to me whether any of them had a cellphone and called 911.

    The Secret Service waited till after the gunman was killed to move Trump away Apparently that would have exposed him to rifle fire.

    Probably more than 3 people were injured or killed but they left under their own power.

    Sammy Finkelman (51823e)

  412. “Authorities handling security at the Saturday rally in Butler, Pennsylvania, where former President Donald Trump survived an assassination attempt, are pushing back on claims that Trump was denied requests for additional security.

    The US Secret Service has called the claim “absolutely false.”

    “There’s an untrue assertion that a member of the former President’s team requested additional security resources & that those were rebuffed. This is absolutely false. In fact, we added protective resources & technology & capabilities as part of the increased campaign travel tempo,” Secret Service Chief of Communications Anthony Guglielmi wrote in a post on X Sunday morning.

    The FBI also pushed back on the implication Saturday night.

    “There was no additional request for security that was ever denied by the FBI,” Kevin Rojek, the FBI special agent in charge of the Pittsburgh office, said during a news conference Saturday night.”

    https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/election-biden-trump-07-13-24/index.html

    Who should we believe?

    AJ_Liberty (0b1bf3)

  413. “Who should we believe?”

    Our eyes.

    lloyd (d8f507)

  414. Tomorrow’s news today:

    “We will probably never know the shooter’s motive”

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/13/2024 @ 4:52 pm

    Washington Post headline today:

    “Trump says to ‘stand united’ as FBI seeks motive In assassination attempt”

    lloyd (d8f507)

  415. Security decisions shouldn’t be made by the campaign anyway. Security was inadequate. Fact. A guy with a rifle shouldn’t be able to climb a nearby building and get off 8 shots. USSS is covering their collective asses. They don’t have a shred of credibility at the moment, on anything.

    lloyd (d8f507)

  416. Keep in mind: Trump’s USSS detail is there only because he’s a former POTUS, not as the candidate for the Republican Party. Expect that detail to be expanded post-haste, for changes in coordination with local law enforcement and USSS, and of course no more outside events.

    SamG (4e6c22)

  417. Trump Indicted For Inciting Assassination Attempt.

    Too soon.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  418. Who should we believe?

    Unnamed sources and rumors, or people speaking with attribution? Lacking anything more, I’ll give the SS the benefit of the doubt.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  419. of course no more outside events.

    Trump will push back on that.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  420. Gun purchased by father legally.

    Bomb-making materials found at shooter’s residence.

    Crooks was not living with parents, who were well off. He had moved out after conflict with his parents.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  421. I am sorry for the attendee who was killed by the sniper, and the two who were injured. (A quick check suggests their names have not been officially released.)

    Jim Miller (59993e)

  422. Photo Appears to Capture Path of Bullet Used in Assassination Attempt

    In documenting the Pennsylvania campaign rally on Saturday afternoon that turned into an attempt on a former president’s life, Doug Mills, a veteran New York Times photographer, appeared to capture the image of a bullet streaking past former President Donald J. Trump’s head.

    That is the assessment of Michael Harrigan, a retired F.B.I. special agent who spent 22 years in the bureau.
    ……………
    Mr. Mills was using a Sony digital camera capable of capturing images at up to 30 frames per second. He took these photos with a shutter speed of 1/8,000th of a second — extremely fast by industry standards.
    …………..
    “If the gunman was firing an AR-15-style rifle, the .223-caliber or 5.56-millimeter bullets they use travel at roughly 3,200 feet per second when they leave the weapon’s muzzle,’’ Mr. Harrigan said. “And with a 1/8,000th of a second shutter speed, this would allow the bullet to travel approximately four-tenths of a foot while the shutter is open.”
    ……………

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5)

  423. At least 3 shots went off right away. Trump was not removed so fast and it took even longer because he said “Let me get my shoes.” They came off?

    Then there;s the thing where they checked abandoned packages for bombs,

    This is still an active ci=rime scene they said (FBI and PSP) 6 hours later, FBI did not get involved until after it was over.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 7/13/2024 @ 11:44 pm

    A lot of ‘experts’ explaining how the secret service should work, but Trump ducking down behind that podium is how many dignitaries are trained to respond to an active shooter, because of ballistic panels in the podium. He was covered on the other side quickly. Moving him immediately would have exposed him to a wide variety of possibilities.

    That part might have been a mistake, but it might have been a great decision. Nobody here knows.

    But the part where the ‘prime perch’ was not carefully covered is going to be impossible to justify. There’s a reason the crowd saw the shooter. It’s one of the most obvious places for one. I also think the bumbling from many of the agents was embarrassing. It did not look like that had trained together on how to do ‘the thing’ we all imagine them doing.

    Secret Service has to get it right 100% of the time, and a bad guy has to get it right just one time. Those aren’t fair rules, but the stakes justify the standard that I don’t think we saw met.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  424. RIP Beverly Hills 90210 actress Shannen Doherty (53).

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5)

  425. @433, it’s inconceivable why one agent wasn’t up there. I get screening the area and securing it to ensure no one can get up there easily, but I would think every elevated position within reasonable distance would be occupied. Also, once he was spotted, it’s unclear why there weren’t snipers immediately targeting him since no one should have been up there.

    AJ_Liberty (0b1bf3)

  426. Amazing post from our former first lady:

    pic.twitter.com/IGIWzL6SMJ

    — MELANIA TRUMP (@MELANIATRUMP) July 14, 2024

    A monster who recognized my husband as an inhuman political machine attempted to ring out Donald’s passion – his laughter, ingenuity, love of music, and inspiration. The core facets of my husband’s life – his human side – were buried below the political machine. Donald, the generous and caring man who I have been with through the best of times and the worst of times.

    Let us not forget that differing opinions, policy, and political games are inferior to love. Our personal, structural, and life commitment – until death – is at serious risk. Political concepts are simple when compared to us, human beings.

    We are all humans, and fundamentally, instinctively, we want to help one another. American politics are only one vehicle that can uplift our communities. Love, compassion, kindness and empathy are necessities.

    And let us remember that when the time comes to look beyond the left and the right, beyond the red and the blue, we all come from families with the passion to fight for a better life together, while we are here, in this earthly realm.

    Dawn is here again. Let us reunite. Now.

    whembly (a43e5a)

  427. Novak Djokovic has lost the men’s singles final at Wimbledon to Carlos Alcaraz in straight sets, 6-2 6-2 7-6 (7-4).

    Alcaraz becomes the first Spaniard to successfully defend his title, a feat not even achieved by Rafael Nadal. At 21, Alcaraz is the current US Open, French Open, and Wimbledon champion; and has twice defeated Djokovic in Wimbledon finals.

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5)

  428. > It’s the kind of situation where, unless he’s dropped his weapon and is kneeling with his hands behind his head, they’re gonna shoot and ask questions alter.

    Oh, sure, and rightly so.

    Still wish he were around to answer questions.

    aphrael (1797ab)

  429. Whembly, at 436: that’s a fantastic statement from Melania Trump.

    aphrael (1797ab)

  430. Trump rally attendee killed in shooting identified as Corey Comperatore

    The member of the crowd killed in the assassination attempt on Donald Trump at his Pennsylvania rally has been identified.

    Corey Comperatore, the retired fire chief of Buffalo Township, was sitting behind the former president shot and killed by gunman 20-year-old Thomas Matthew Crooks.

    The 50-year-old died a hero as his family revealed he was shielding his young daughter and wife from the gunfire when he was killed.

    Members of the audience frantically tried to save the father’s life in the bleachers in Butler after Crooks opened fire from a rooftop 130 yards away.

    Family members paid tribute Comperatore who was well-known in the community.

    His sister wrote on Facebook: ‘The PA Trump Rally claimed the life of my brother, Corey Comperatore. The hatred for one man took the life of the one man we loved the most. He was a hero who shielded his daughters.’

    lloyd (d8f507)

  431. 439. Agreed that is a good statement. I kind of doubt she wrote it but that hardly matters. I wish Biden or Trump were capable of that kind of uplifting rhetoric. And she is 100% right. We are so much better than this and capable of more.

    JRH (14e837)

  432. It’s a good statement. I appreciate the perspective.

    A bit odd coming from the ‘I really don’t care, do u?’ lady, but nobody is perfect.

    Particularly imperfect is Joe Biden. Just reading his comments about Trump is troubling. Describing his opponent as threat who must be stopped, rather than a misguided leader with a poor record who should lose the election. I can’t see how Biden doesn’t lose a huge amount of enthusiasm from moderate democrats, as Trump gains a rally of independents. The ads write themselves.

    I have been saying Biden will not be on the ballot for over a year now. It’s gotta be Kamala at this point. Too much signal to noise to do anything more than Amendment 25.

    I won’t vote for Biden at this point. I think democrats salvage any fleeting chance if they get him off the stage. But it’s too late.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  433. How about holding the media accountable for their incendiary rhetoric?

    NJRob (eb56c3) — 7/13/2024 @ 6:52 pm

    First Amendment.

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5)

  434. JRH
    Melania is fortunate enough to have people around her, but I think this reflects her thoughts on the matter 110%
    That said, she might have written or spoken every word and just had help condensing, constructing into one statement.
    She is very well spoken (particularly in comparison to her husband- night meets day) she always conveys intelligence and grace in public. She stays in her lane, which is smart, no one wants to hear what the First Lady or First Gentleman has to say.

    I’d choose her as shadow President over Jill Biden all day long

    steveg (bf3320)

  435. RIP actress and producer Shelly Duvall (75):

    …………….
    While attending junior college in her hometown of Houston, Duvall was discovered by (director Robert) Altman staff members and talked into taking a screen test. She then made her onscreen debut as teenage seductress and Astrodome tour guide Suzanne Davis in Brewster McCloud (1970).
    …………..
    ………….(T)he childlike star collaborated with Altman as a mail-order bride in McCabe & Mrs. Miller (1971); as the woman who has a Mississippi romance with bank robber Keith Carradine in Thieves Like Us (1974); as the groupie L.A. Joan, fond of hot pants and platform shoes, in Nashville (1975); as the wife of President Grover Cleveland in Buffalo Bill and the Indians, or Sitting Bull’s History Lesson (1976); and as Millie Lamoureaux, a fantasizing attendant at a Palm Springs health spa for the elderly, in 3 Women (1977).
    ………….
    She won the best actress award at the Cannes Film Festival for portraying Millie.

    For the film adaptation of Stephen King’s The Shining, Duvall said she was put to the test during the 13-month shoot in England. In the horror classic, she plays the besieged wife Wendy Torrance, who spends a harsh winter at the desolate Overlook Hotel with her writer husband (Nicholson) — who slowly goes mad — and their young son (Danny Lloyd).
    …………..
    Memorable every time she showed up onscreen, Duvall also portrayed a spacy rock journalist in Woody Allen’s Annie Hall (1977); appeared as Pansy in funny scenes with Michael Palin in Terry Gilliam’s Time Bandits (1981); and played Steve Martin’s supportive pal Dixie in Roxanne (1987).
    …………..
    ………….(In 1982), Showtime bought her pitch that turned into 26 episodes of the Peabody Award-winning Faerie Tale Theatre, which she executive produced, narrated and appeared on.

    Three years later, she created Tall Tales & Legends, a one-hour anthology series, also for Showtime, that featured adaptations of American folk tales.
    ……….. …

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5)

  436. “If we have crooks in office this often, it’s genius giving presidents a Get Out of Jail Free card. Great job, John Roberts!”

    Realize I’m out of my lane.

    I read the syllabus and think the above is an overstatement. Roberts clearly sent it back to the district court to have the cojones to make some rulings inside or outside scope, and then lets hear them up the ladder and decide.
    Roberts clearly supports robust Executive powers, and clearly has been telling Congress during rulings that they have strong powers but are not using them well or wisely. He let the District Court know he thinks they (spinelessly – my word) punted without even trying. I’m sure he is doing his best to make sure the Supreme Court wields its powers in powerful fashion.

    I do thank John Roberts for not weakening Executive forevermore because a former President has been presented to him, wrapped in a bow, as a criminal existential threat to Our Democracy. Roberts isn’t there to be their weathervane, he’s there to not let them throw the baby out with the bath water.
    If the next executive is a crook, the House and Senate powers are the ones to neuter that Executive. Impeach, convict, remove is the process for that Executive.

    Some people feel that if the Congress is too weak, too partisan to remove a criminal Executive, then the court should interpret the Constitution in a way that allows local DA’s, State AG’s to assert powers that supplant Federal powers and process Congress, District, Circuit and Supreme.
    Roberts isn’t a fool, so he is not going rule in a way that opens the door for counties or states to supersede any Federal powers over the three Federal branches. Maybe he is being overly cautious, and/or maybe he is convinced that the system in place can handle it- and this too shall pass

    steveg (bf3320)

  437. I get screening the area and securing it to ensure no one can get up there easily,

    True, but the shooter would naturally go to the most convenient uncovered position.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  438. How about holding the media accountable for their incendiary rhetoric?

    NJRob (eb56c3) — 7/13/2024 @ 6:52 pm

    First Amendment.
    Rip Murdock (dbfed5) — 7/14/2024 @ 11:09 am

    Those two things are not mutually exclusive. You can hold them accountable by tuning them out.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  439. The six black-robed gerbils, including (and maybe especially) Roberts, don’t want a Democrat President appointing the next four Justices, three of whom will be their own replacements. That’s all and no more.

    Having said that, I do not mean to imply that they are weak-kneed, political time-servers who are concerned more with their personal vendettas and private power struggles, not to mention all the freebies they can mooch off rich jerkoffs, than the problems of government.

    Nor to suggest at any point that they sacrifice their integrity by willfully ignoring the plain text of the Constitution in the belief that party loyalty comes before the well-being of the nation.

    Nor to insinuate that they are squabbling little toadies without an ounce of concern for the vital social problems of today.

    Nor, indeed, do I intend that readers of this comment should consider them as crabby, ulcerous, little self-seeking vermin, with furry legs, and an excessive addiction to psychotropic substances and certain explicit sexual practices which some people might find offensive.

    I apologize if I have given this impression.

    Cf. Monty Python’s Flying Circus.

    nk (259fe9)

  440. steveg,

    The real solution is to reduce the power of the Executive so it isn’t such a magnet for scoundrels, nor such a danger when they get in. Mostly this means that power needs to devolve to Congress and/or the States. Starting with education.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  441. The power to deal with education is with the states, and the courts, except for a few things promoted by money. zthe problem is organizations, mostly teacher’s unions.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  442. lloyd (d8f507) — 7/14/2024 @ 10:05 am

    The 50-year-old died a hero as his family revealed he was shielding his young daughter and wife from the gunfire when he was killed.

    I don’t know if that’s really true (if he moved or shifted his body) but that means he was not killed by the first shot. On the video In think I heard 3 shots fired at first.

    Then, after a slight pause, there were maybe five more and finally one by the Secret Service countersnipers that killed the gunman.

    So saying he fired four shots is wrong. Maybe four people were hit or nicked by different bullets that they knew of last night.

    Members of the audience frantically tried to save the father’s life in the bleachers in Butler after Crooks opened fire from a rooftop 130 yards away.

    One person said he was killed instantly – dropped – by a bullet to the head and he carried his body away.

    I’ve heard 130 yards but the New York Post printed a map that said 148 yards was where his body was found but there seems some uncertainty still if it was 125 yards or 150 yards. The countersnipers had responsibility dealing with the outer perimeter up to 1,000 yards away and they were unusual for a former president

    This was not the first time the Trump campaign had used the Butler site,

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  443. The people who saw him a few minutes before were standing under trees 50 feet away from the building. Someone must have called 911.

    But the police were not paying attention and looking in the wrong place when they tried to talk to them and the Secret Service who saw them did not see the gunman since he was shielded by the roof of the building and they didn’t understand their signaling (they were maybe a bit further away than the stage)

    So: A bomb threat gets an evacuation

    Suspicious packages cause evacuations.

    But someone calling up and reporting aman sneaking around with a rifle results in nothing until they confirm it is true.

    The gunman was first identified by his gun (can they tell by the serial number or something?)

    Every event has a budget, They have to consider overtime etc,

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  444. Biden did not use the words wrong or evil or wicked or God but only sick and improper and that political violence (was not the American way)

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  445. The proper forum of first resort for that reduction in power is within a strong Legislative Branch.
    We don’t have that today, and may not again in my lifetime. The Court will probably need to decide again (multiple times) how this goes in the short term. I’m willing to wait and see what the District courts send up the ladder, what the Supreme Court allows to stand, what they rule themselves. What they allow to stand will probably be like applause for the obvious, but it’d be a start.
    Roberts went out of his way to say that it is his view this is uncharted territory. To me, he seemed to be treating “presumptive immunity” like “presumptive innocence” and said the test for that is evidence beyond reasonable doubt (pundits seemed to want standard to be preponderance) that the Executive is acting outside scope. It think Roberts is intending to use future cases brought to the Court to began to define scope beyond the perimeter and work cautiously back to define points on the edge as future precedents that can be referred to

    steveg (bf3320)

  446. Roberts went out of his way to say that it is his view this is uncharted territory.

    He’s a crapweasel. The territory is the Constitution. And the black cat that was not there that he found in the lightless room was never there because the Founders never put it there.

    What particularly prickles me, personally, is that I took his side against Trump back when Trump was badmouthing judges and Roberts chided him for promoting distrust in, and disrespect for, the judiciary. And he went and proved Trump right.

    nk (4f67ad)

  447. nk must be wondering why all the fuss about firecrackers

    lloyd (930c78)

  448. I’ve gotten used to always being less to Trump than meets the eye.

    nk (4f67ad)

  449. 25 people were shot, 4 fatally, in Chicago this weekend, and the weekend is not over yet. Maybe I should look up one with a scratch on his ear and write him in for President?

    Nothing that happened in Pennsylvania makes Trump more worthy of anything,

    nk (4f67ad)

  450. Every single mass shooter:

    Jason Kohler, 21, who went to the same high school, told CNN that Crooks was bullied by other students and seemed to be a loner.

    Crooks had “no facial expression” when he walked through the school hallways, Kohler said. “He wasn’t, like, with the clique, so he always had, I guess, a target on his back.”

    Another former student at the school, Sarah D’Angelo, remembered Crooks as “a quiet kid, not obviously political or violent in any way.” She said the only time he spoke with her was when their class was waiting for their graduation ceremony to start.

    A third classmate, who asked not to be named, said that Crooks was very smart, took honors classes, and was shy. She said that he had a group of friends who were fairly conservative, some of whom would wear Trump hats.

    “There was definitely chatter about him just looking a little different,” the classmate said of Crooks. “Almost a retro nerd vibe.”

    Crooks’ high school experience was interrupted by the pandemic, with students being out of school for months in 2020 and allowed to study remotely after that, the classmate said – and she added that she didn’t recall seeing him much during their sophomore or junior years.

    When she heard that Crooks was identified as the Trump rally shooter, the classmate said, “I was just, like, shocked — I just couldn’t believe he did something that bold, considering he was such a quiet and kept-to-himself kind of person.”

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  451. 235 years ago today. Will we see a similar event here?

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5)

  452. @462 Yeah, exactly, except for the other ones

    lloyd (e10227)

  453. Still, not sure how not being shot by a crazy kid makes a unqualified sleazy old man more qualified to be president.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  454. So the crazy loner mass shooter is unlike the other crazy loner mass shooter or the other crazy mass shooter or the other crazy mass shooter or the…

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  455. @465 “Still, not sure how not being shot by a crazy kid makes an unqualified sleazy old man more qualified to be president.”

    It doesn’t. It just makes the sleazy demented guy who put “Trump in a bullseye” less qualified.

    lloyd (e10227)

  456. It’s hard to erase the contrasting images. Biden helped off a stage because he’s lost it. Trump helped off a stage because he was shot, pumping his fist and yelling “fight, fight, fight.” It doesn’t make Trump more qualified, but it is what it is.

    lloyd (e10227)

  457. Crooks was born in September, 2003 and graduated high school in June, 2022. Was he red-shirted I think is the phrase. He won an award when he graduated.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  458. born in September, 2003

    Lots of parents are faced with that decision when their child first enters school — that they meet the age requirement but will be the smallest kid in the class.

    nk (435096)

  459. I believe September is the cutoff date for determining when to enter kindergarten. Some go early. Some go late.

    norcal (a8a5db)

  460. Dr. Drew Pinsky said that around 20 years of age is when mental illness is most likely to emerge.

    norcal (a8a5db)

  461. It doesn’t. It just makes the sleazy demented guy who put “Trump in a bullseye” less qualified.

    lloyd (e10227) — 7/14/2024 @ 4:35 pm

    What a load of cr@p. Unless you thought Sarah Palin was responsible for the shooting of Gabby Giffords, which I assume you didn’t because that was a load of cr@p too, albeit one that didn’t confirm your priors.

    Biden’s deficiencies are many and obvious. They don’t need supplementing with this kind of tribally motivated imagined causation, which you know you would reject and condemn in a heartbeat if the shoe was on the other foot.

    lurker (c23034)

  462. @473 lurker, if you called out the routine characterization of Trump supporters as cultists, fascists, Putin fan boys, xenophobes, etc etc etc, and the Hitler analogies, and the blaming of Stefanik for the Buffalo shooting, I’d love to see the receipts. Until then, the rules are what you and others in the Democrat camp have allowed them to be.

    lloyd (e10227)

  463. “Most importantly, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart, Trump is a threat to this nation.” – Joe Biden the same day his opponent was shot

    This isn’t democracy in my book.

    Unless you thought Sarah Palin was responsible for the shooting of Gabby Giffords

    I think this comparison is very poor. It’s so poor that it proves without a doubt the hypocrisy in those who condemned Palin but do not condemn Biden. Because it’s soooo lopsided.

    Biden’s comments are specific, in the context of many celebrities outright saying we must kill Trump, and in the context of high level democrat staffers, some office holders, lamenting he is alive, and in the context of many saying Trump is worse than Hitler, or just like Hitler (that Trump must be stopped by any means necessary).

    Trump tried to undo the election he lost, and he deserves the condemnation for it. His being shot at doesn’t make that better. But why is Biden’s obvious efforts to win via fomenting this kind of hatred any better?

    Dustin (36e56d)

  464. Let’s stop this “blame game”: Palin’s “use of the crosshairs was dumb,” but so is liberals’ use of her “excessive language and symbols” to enact a “sickening ritual of guilt by association,” says Howard Kurtz in The Daily Beast. Journalists use military metaphors to describe politics all the time, and nobody accuses us of “trying to incite violence.” Let’s face it: “This isn’t about a nearly year-old Sarah Palin map; it’s about a lone nutjob who doesn’t value human life.”

    Yeah

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  465. Palin didn’t say she wanted to physically punch Giffords, and then post a bullseye remark directed at only Giffords, and then say Giffords was an existential threat to our country that must be stopped.

    https://x.com/RealJamesWoods/status/1812394330457612423

    I think the blame is on Biden squarely. That doesn’t mean the idiot who responded to Biden’s call to stop the threat was a reasonable idiot. It means Biden was irresponsible with the power of his office.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  466. No, she posted a picture of a bullseye map and said “Don’t retreat. RELOAD.”

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  467. The blame is squarely on the kid who did it.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  468. Or is Trump guilty for saying all the things he said for years that led to 1/6? Or are the people who did it guilty?

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  469. Or is Trump guilty for saying all the things he said for years that led to 1/6? Or are the people who did it guilty?

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 7/14/2024 @ 6:41 pm

    Uh oh.

    I think you figured it out.

    Biden is responsible for what his irresponsible fomenting of fear and hatred and desperation caused.

    Or Trump isn’t responsible for his version of the same.

    Yours is an easy question for me to answer, because the answer is “yes of course Trump is responsible for what he said and did.”

    That’s how accountability works. Biden has been profoundly irresponsible for saying he would, and I quote, like to “beat the hell out of Trump.” and “Trump is an existential threat to democracy” and “he must be stopped.” Those are not legitimate arguments. these remarks absolutely make violence more likely, and the context is that someone did try to murder Justice Kavanaugh, a few years after someone shot GOP congressmen.

    Leadership actually has an impact and it actually matters.

    I think back to how Bush handled his rhetoric after 9/11. We have fallen a long way.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  470. Rhetoric begets rhetoric. Actions are the responsibility of the actor. Using a word that is used by literally everyone right or left is somehow ordering a crazy dude to do a thing is asinine.

    That rhetoric can escalate tensions, I’m pretty sure you can watch the temperature raise significantly over the last 30 years.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  471. You can’t eat your cake and have it too.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  472. You want to defend Biden’s conduct, be my guest. Conflate it with ‘everyone right or left’ all you want.

    I find anyone who tried to subvert the peaceful transition of power to be beneath contempt. You can vote for it if you want. You do you.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  473. You can’t eat your cake and have it too.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 7/14/2024 @ 6:59 pm

    If Trump is accountable for the impact of his rhetoric, so is Biden, and this is so obvious.

    I have no idea how you’re interpreting my remarks to be inconsistent, but hey, you do you.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  474. There are a lot of emotional fear responses to Trump, and Roberts (correctly in my view) wants to go about it without the emotions. The questions raised before the Court were about Trump but effect the Constitutional powers of all Presidents to come.
    I can see the merits in arguments that say Trump is a bad guy and here are some bright lines or points we can put now on outer perimeter and I think Roberts signaled he may be agreeable to those if they work their way back up through the system well crafted, well supported.

    I do think he is dismissive of any call to Court actions based off of “existential threats” because that would involve emotion. I know there are people out there who have built what they consider airtight arguments that “Trump almost killed once and if he gets away with it, he will try again at murdering Our Democracy” and I don’t think Roberts would find their arguments compelling beyond the intellectual or personal exercise although I expect he’d listen next time they are before his Court (if Trump wins. it’ll be easy to tell how bad Trump is behaving by the time it runs back up the ladder to Roberts and he’ll deal with reality not conjecture.)

    steveg (bf3320)

  475. Conflation – A logical Fallacy

    Conflation, as defined by Cambridge, is explained as concealing a step in reasoning by treating two words or expressions as if they were interchangeable, even though their meanings are different.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  476. “Most importantly, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart, Trump is a threat to this nation.” – Joe Biden the same day his opponent was shot

    This isn’t democracy in my book.

    It is in mine. As Patterico said upthread, Trump tried to end the Republic. To say that’s a threat to the nation is so self-evident it’s tautological. Calling it out is every bit democracy.

    Biden’s comments are specific, in the context of many celebrities outright saying we must kill Trump, and in the context of high level democrat staffers, some office holders, lamenting he is alive, and in the context of many saying Trump is worse than Hitler, or just like Hitler (that Trump must be stopped by any means necessary).

    I don’t know which celebs, staffers and office holders you have in mind, but I have no doubt countless idiots have said countless idiotic things. That doesn’t make Biden responsible for them just because he said something important and true.

    Trump tried to undo the election he lost, and he deserves the condemnation for it. His being shot at doesn’t make that better. But why is Biden’s obvious efforts to win via fomenting this kind of hatred any better?

    I strongly disapprove of fomenting hatred, but I dispute that that’s what Biden did. As I said, I believe he told an important truth. If others spin it into hate, that’s because haters gonna hate, not because Biden made them.

    But even if what Biden did had been hateful, which again it wasn’t, yes, I believe it goes without saying that while demagoguery is awful, trying to end the republic is worse. Much worse.

    Even that misses the point that you deftly changed the subject to whether Trump’s efforts to overturn the election were worse than Biden’s rhetoric about those efforts (they were), from whether Biden’s true statement about Trump was any more responsible for the assassination attempt on Trump than Palin’s campaign ad was for the attack on Giffords (it wasn’t, for the reasons Patterico also explained persuasively upthread).

    lurker (c23034)

  477. That doesn’t make Biden responsible for them just because he said something important and true.

    Biden said he wanted to “Beat the hell out of Trump.” Take him behind a shed and physically get violent. he said it over and over. It was a rehearsed part of his speech. He also said Trump was a threat that had to be stopped.

    This is not important or true.

    Even that misses the point that you deftly changed the subject to whether Trump’s efforts to overturn the election were worse than Biden’s rhetoric

    No, I specifically answered that. Both are equal, because they are the same effort to thwart the peaceful transition of power. I have said so repeatedly.

    I strongly disapprove of fomenting hatred, but I dispute that that’s what Biden did.

    Well, you’re a liar.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  478. Still, not sure how not being shot by a crazy kid makes a unqualified sleazy old man more qualified to be president.

    It doesn’t. Only getting a majority of electoral votes qualifies you.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  479. As I understand it, Palin talking about putting a bullseye on Giffords et al, metaphorically, is exactly the same thing as the President of he United States saying his opponent is a mortal and existential danger to the survival of the nation and he must be “stopped.”

    No difference, right?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  480. Pool!

    When Trump appears on the stage of the convention, how many minutes till the standing ovation last?

    Extra credit: who will stop clapping first?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  481. *will

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  482. Both sides have propaganda machines, and it appears both sides have spewed rhetoric that has no place in civil society.

    The trick is to sort through it, and determine which is more significant in the big scheme of things.

    It helps if one is dispassionate and non-tribal.

    norcal (14e148)

  483. Biden said he wanted to “Beat the hell out of Trump.” Take him behind a shed and physically get violent. he said it over and over. It was a rehearsed part of his speech. He also said Trump was a threat that had to be stopped.

    This is not important or true.

    That’s not what I was responding to, nor what you quoted in your comment to me. I agree the “beat the hell” part is gross, irresponsible, and it has no value. The “threat that had to be stopped” part, I reiterate is important and true.

    No, I specifically answered that. Both are equal, because they are the same effort to thwart the peaceful transition of power. I have said so repeatedly.

    And I disagree repeatedly. “Trump is a threat to the nation” is true. Saying it is by no stretch an attempt to thwart the peaceful transition of power.

    I strongly disapprove of fomenting hatred, but I dispute that that’s what Biden did.

    Well, you’re a liar.

    Wow. Just wow. Care to point out where I lied? And again, remember that I was responding only to the “threat to the nation” comment, not “I’d like to beat the hell out of him.” I wouldn’t call the latter hate mongering, but it’s close enough that I wouldn’t dispute it.

    lurker (c23034)

  484. I read that Biden’s young staffers like to refer to Trump as “Hitler Pig”. You can search it on X although no doubt the smarter ones have scrubbed it.
    Hey they are young- but why wasn’t anyone up the ladder saying this is not OK.

    steveg (bf3320)

  485. Trump was at least aware he was President for 4 years, so he may have absorbed more of the ins and outs of the job than Joe has.
    The question to whether Joe is qualified for another 4 years has to be asked of Jill, which begs the question

    steveg (bf3320)

  486. @473 lurker, if you called out the routine characterization of Trump supporters as cultists, fascists, Putin fan boys, xenophobes, etc etc etc, and the Hitler analogies, and the blaming of Stefanik for the Buffalo shooting, I’d love to see the receipts.

    lloyd (e10227) — 7/14/2024 @ 5:36 pm

    Aside from most of that having nothing to do with what I said, you’re burden shifting. I’ve criticized attempts to blame shootings on political rhetoric, left and right, but I have no specific recollection where and when. For example, I don’t remember if I was even commenting here when Giffords was shot. So I’ll just toss it back to you. Show me where I’ve ever agreed with or defended an attempt to blame a shooting on political rhetoric. You can’t because I never have.

    Until then, the rules are what you and others in the Democrat camp have allowed them to be.

    Ah, the old “my principles are the worst things I accuse my opponents of” race-to-the-bottom nihilism. Good times.

    And not that it matters, but I’m an independent. Over the 4+ decades I’ve been voting, most of my votes and all of my contributions have gone to Republicans. But I am NeverTrump, so I understand that to anti-anti-Trump that makes me a Democrat.

    lurker (c23034)

  487. I am similar to you, lurker. I’ve been voting for four decades also. The first time I voted for a Democrat was in 2022, and it was for Nevada Secretary of State. I voted for the Democrat because the Republican nominee was pushing the 2020 “rigged” election nonsense. He was even one of the “alternate” slate of pro-Trump electors, and signed fake elector documents. I didn’t want that kind of person running the Nevada elections.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/14/us/politics/jim-marchant-nevada-secretary-of-state.html

    https://www.rawstory.com/secretary-of-state-jim-marchant/

    norcal (14e148)

  488. Fortunately, the Democrat won the Nevada Secretary of State race.

    norcal (14e148)

  489. @498 “Show me where I’ve ever agreed with or defended an attempt to blame a shooting on political rhetoric. You can’t because I never have.”

    lurker, you know I didn’t claim that you agreed with or defended any such linkage, because you read my comment. Why distort what I wrote? What I did claim is that AFAIK you let such linkages go unchallenged when done by those in the Democrat camp.

    I mentioned the Buffalo mass shooting in my comment. Archives show this post on it. You left a comment there, which means you read the post. You had an opportunity there to call out the blaming of Republican rhetoric, as you you made sure to call out my comment here about Biden’s rhetoric, but you passed on it. This backs up my claim.

    lloyd (9149dc)

  490. @500. Thanks, norcal, you saved me a Google search.

    lurker (c23034)

  491. Why distort what I wrote?

    I didn’t. You implied that unless a principle I’m enunciating now is one I’ve enunciated before when the partisan arrows were reversed, then I’m a hypocrite. I said that although the relevant principle has been my consistent position, there’s no way for me to prove it, but I’d welcome you proving the opposite, which I know you can’t because it isn’t true. That distorts nothing you said.

    What I did claim is that AFAIK you let such linkages go unchallenged when done by those in the Democrat camp.

    I mentioned the Buffalo mass shooting in my comment. Archives show this post on it. You left a comment there, which means you read the post. You had an opportunity there to call out the blaming of Republican rhetoric, as you you made sure to call out my comment here about Biden’s rhetoric, but you passed on it. This backs up my claim.

    You’re assuming I read every comment in every thread I participate in. I don’t. You’re also assuming that every comment I do read without responding is one I don’t find objectionable. That’s wrong too. I feel no compulsion to announce my strongly held beliefs every time the relevant subject arises.

    So no, it doesn’t back up your claim.

    lurker (c23034)

  492. Toning down rhetoric bad news for biden campaign. If dementia joe can’t run on trump is hitler and a threat to democracy to be stopped at all costs. Whats he going to run on?

    asset (223433)

  493. Trump is a threat to democracy, he’s also a sleazeball conman, and a criminal.

    A nutball trying to kill him doesn’t undo all of that.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  494. We are a Republic. Trump’s 4 years were 3 years of peace and prosperity 1 year of a man-made Chinese virus wrecking things interlaced with leftists sporadically rioting and burning things down.

    Trump was entirely within the norm. Continuing to lie about him and calling him a “threat to Democracy” is how we got here today.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  495. Perfectly normal if you forget the things he said and did; before, during, and after.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  496. @503 “I didn’t. You implied…”

    No lurker, I wrote what I wrote in plain English.

    “You’re assuming I read every comment in every thread I participate in. I don’t.”

    No, I assumed you read the post. You don’t have to read a single comment to come to an opinion about the post. But, even if you didn’t read the post then, which I find highly unlikely, you know about it now and still you take a pass on calling it out. Again, this backs up my claim.

    lloyd (9149dc)

  497. Trump is a threat to democracy, he’s also a sleazeball conman, and a criminal.

    With so many people saying that, it’s hard to understand why someone would take a shot.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  498. We need Trump supporters telling us that speech can lead to violence the way we need Trump himself telling us that a second helping of chocolate cake with a double scoop of chocolate ice cream can lead to weight gain.

    nk (9b372d)

  499. Speech CAN lead to violence. It’s hard to understand people who deny that, but turn around and talk about how Trump incited the J6 mob.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  500. Myself I’m consistent. I believe that Trump incited the J6 mob AND I believe that the constant drumbeat of existential peril to the nation was the cause of Mr Crooks’ apparent “moral duty.”

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  501. However, I do not believe that Trump IS a existential danger. Our nation was created by people who understood the will to power and guarded against it. Nearly 250 years later it is still standing, having survived evil presidents, terrible presidents and ineffectual presidents. It will survive Donald Trump, too, and may benefit from the lesson.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  502. Now, excuse me but there’s some ice cream and cake with my name on it.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  503. Kevin Williamson nails something I’ve felt but could not put into words:

    Joe Biden remains something very close to a disconnected nonparticipant, a mere commentator on the events of his time rather than a force to shape them.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  504. @475

    Trump tried to undo the election he lost, and he deserves the condemnation for it. His being shot at doesn’t make that better. But why is Biden’s obvious efforts to win via fomenting this kind of hatred any better?

    Dustin (36e56d) — 7/14/2024 @ 5:44 pm

    They can’t answer that Dustin.

    Or, if they try, it’s whatabouting or some other bs spin.

    whembly (477db6)

  505. The resume of Trump’s assassin looks like the kind of guy who shoots up a school or a mall. He probably chose the Trump rally because he did not have too far to drive.

    The heavily promoted idea that Democratic rhetoric drove him to shoot at Trump is just as dishonest as it was back when Sarah Palin was supposed to have inspired the Gabby Giffords shooting. Incitement of an already worked up crowd (J6) is very different. The Democrats taking issue with Trump’s pro-dictator rhetoric and Project 2025 is, sorry, raiing issues that belong in this election campaign.

    Appalled (061a72)

  506. “He probably chose the Trump rally because he did not have too far to drive.”

    The silly lengths some will go to support their tribe.

    lloyd (9149dc)

  507. Everything I hear about the shooter tells me he suffered some kind of “spectrum” disorder. The shyness, aloofness and lack of friends all suggest functional autism and perhaps some Asbergers.

    That’s not to say that such people cannot function, or are nuts, or even that they are dangerous to others. Hardly, as I have struggled with that myself. But his life and interaction with the world seem to have been mostly internal and it’s quite possible for someone like that to fixate on a meme.

    Even in his actions, he was alone.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  508. What a coincidence that, thirteen(!) years later, leftists are just now coming clean on the Palin BS. What prompted this???

    lloyd (9149dc)

  509. Judge dismisses classified documents indictment against Trump

    This will be appealed of course.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  510. The heavily promoted idea that Democratic rhetoric drove him to shoot at Trump is just as dishonest as it was back when Sarah Palin was supposed to have inspired the Gabby Giffords shooting.

    That’s just BS and you should know it. In Palin’s case the shooter was unaware of it, so right there it’s different. Unless you are prepared to argue that Crooks was unaware of the statements by Biden and others about the existential danger posed by Donald Trump.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  511. It is true that rhetoric does not “drive” someone to murder, but it sure can lead them there.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  512. RIP actor James B. Sikking (90). Sikking played Lt. Howard Hunter on Hill Street Blues and the father on Doogie Howser, M.D. He also played a mob assassin in one of my favorite movies, Point Blank (1967).

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5)

  513. Yeah, I saw that about Sikking. I was a Hill Street fan, and his character was a favorite, although watching that show recently it seemed terribly dated and stereotyped.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  514. @489

    Even that misses the point that you deftly changed the subject to whether Trump’s efforts to overturn the election were worse than Biden’s rhetoric

    No, I specifically answered that. Both are equal, because they are the same effort to thwart the peaceful transition of power. I have said so repeatedly.

    Slight disagreement with you here.

    Trump’s efforts to challenge the election (I refuse to call it thwarting “peaceful transition of power), while extremely disappointing, doesn’t rise to the same level of 8-ish years of Trump-Hitlerism that actually led to an assassination attempt.

    Here’s the scale:
    One side tried to overturn an election using dubious legal arguments that was nearly-instantly shut down by the courts. (he did seize ballots or unloaded a truck full of prefilled ballots at cooperating precinct).

    vs.

    The otherside rising rhetoric of the last several years that created an environment that led to a near-by-inches-assassination attempt. And NO ONE is really accepting any RESPOSIBILITY for the conditions that led to this.

    I’m sorry, and I say this with respect… you are wrong on this one.

    I strongly disapprove of fomenting hatred, but I dispute that that’s what Biden did.

    Well, you’re a liar.

    Dustin (36e56d) — 7/14/2024 @ 7:21 pm

    If they can’t acknowledge that Biden…the Democrats…the mainstream media (BIRM)…has formented hatred with absurd accusations and hitlerlism…

    …then THEY are the “brainwashed cultist” they so accused Trump voters.

    Treat them accordingly…

    whembly (477db6)

  515. *he didn’t seize….

    whembly (477db6)

  516. Judge dismisses classified documents indictment against Trump

    This will be appealed of course.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/15/2024 @ 7:09 am

    Don’t get your hopes up. It won’t be heard by an appeals court before the case is dismissed by the Trump Administration.

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5)

  517. @509, I agree that “threat to democracy” is generally hyperbolic because it implies several moves beyond Trump’s irresponsible rhetoric. Will people engage and support massive fraud to cancel the democratic will? The cynic would say that was what the electoral count fraud was all about. Team Trump wanted to throw out votes from key states….without genuine legal evidence…to get their preferred result. It’s a jump in logic to say that Trump would then not leave office in 2028 and thereby ignore the Constitution. But this is the problem with reckless rhetoric…and dumb people who take it as Gospel. We need candidates who will defend the process and tell the truth. That ain’t Trump….and Biden isn’t especially good at it either….never was.

    Trump is a provocateur. He creates drama and chaos. We are in a time when this truly animates people. Too many Republicans see no downside and don’t demand the truth.

    On the other side, Biden is in a jam. Cost of living, immigration, and world instability are not winning issues for him. He has to play on fitness and that Trump is an agent of chaos…otherwise he loses even bigger. If Biden cannot assert that J6 makes Trump unfit, then it’s unclear what persuasive argument he has left. This is the problem with nominating someone who should have been impeached and convicted. It WILL lead to incendiary rhetoric and the potential for violence. It was just dumb luck that the violence was directed first at Trump versus Biden….

    AJ_Liberty (0b1bf3)

  518. @510

    We need Trump supporters telling us that speech can lead to violence the way we need Trump himself telling us that a second helping of chocolate cake with a double scoop of chocolate ice cream can lead to weight gain.

    nk (9b372d) — 7/15/2024 @ 6:26 am

    Sure.

    Meanwhile, let’s ignore the left:
    1) tried to assassinate at the GOP baseball field
    2) tried to assassinate Justice Kavanaugh
    3) tried to assassinate Rand Paul
    4) over the years literally murdered Trump supporters/Republicans
    5) riots
    6) various lawfares, not only Trump, but School board parents, abortion protestors to name a few.

    But all things connected to Trump is the problem. Nothing else to see here.

    No… no… nk… keep your blinders on…

    At least you’re entertaining. 😉

    whembly (477db6)

  519. Here’s a guy who says that Trump was likely saved by a 5mph crosswind, which moved the trajectory 1 inch at 130m.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  520. Link

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  521. @529

    This will be appealed of course.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/15/2024 @ 7:09 am

    Don’t get your hopes up. It won’t be heard by an appeals court before the case is dismissed by the Trump Administration.

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5) — 7/15/2024 @ 7:20 am

    If the judge made a fundamental error in the record, the 11th Circuit can move quickly and reverse her.

    They did so with that “Master” ruling, so nothing should stop them from reversing her if she made the same mistakes.

    whembly (477db6)

  522. Don’t get your hopes up. It won’t be heard by an appeals court before the case is dismissed by the Trump Administration.

    The case wasn’t going to be heard by then anyway. I expect to hear from the appeals court shortly. They have this judge’s rulings on speed dial.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  523. Oh… yeah, it’s a dead case.

    The judge took her cues from Justice Thomas’ concurring opinion:

    ORDER GRANTING MOTION TO DISMISS SUPERSEDING INDICTMENT
    BASED ON APPOINTMENTS CLAUSE VIOLATION former President Trump’s Motion to Dismiss Indictment Based on the Unlawful Appointment and Funding of Special Counsel Jack Smith is GRANTED in accordance with this Order [ECF No. 326]. The Superseding Indictment is DISMISSED because Special Counsel Smith’s appointment violates the Appointments Clause of the United States Constitution. U.S. Const., Art. II, § 2, cl. 2. Special Counsel Smith’s use of a permanent indefinite appropriation also violates the Appropriations Clause, U.S. Const., Art. I, § 9, cl. 7, but the Court need not address the proper remedy for that funding violation given the dismissal on Appointments Clause grounds. The effect of this Order is confined to this proceeding.

    Now… I’m doubtful that the 11th circuit would overturn.

    Jeebus wept… Trump’s gotta be the luckiest mf on the planet now.

    whembly (477db6)

  524. Kevin M:

    Do you believe Biden and group should shut up about Project 2025, Trump’s election denial, his lies, and dismiss all the trials, because that maybe leads to an assassination attempt? If you believe that’s what the other side is going to do, why woudn’t you say so in a campaign?

    Again, the guy who shot at the former president does not fit the profile of the most heinous recent attempted assassination — they guy who shot at the GOP congressional baseball team. He looks like a school shooter.

    Frankly, more stringent gun control probably would have been more effective than self-censorship.

    Appalled (061a72)

  525. Also, Cannon isn’t doing Trump any favors here. She intrudes on HIS news cycle with a reminder about him mishandling top secret documents.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  526. whembly —

    This one will likely go the Supreme Court, so the delays will be until after Trump has another election stolen from him. The advantage is that whatever happens, Cannon will not get the case back.

    Appalled (061a72)

  527. @538

    Again, the guy who shot at the former president does not fit the profile of the most heinous recent attempted assassination — they guy who shot at the GOP congressional baseball team. He looks like a school shooter.

    Appalled (061a72) — 7/15/2024 @ 7:37 am

    No.

    Anyone who donates to ActBlue superPAC is a dye-in-the-wool Democrat.

    We don’t have all the information, but THAT is a giant red flag to me.

    whembly (477db6)

  528. If you believe that’s what the other side is going to do, why woudn’t you say so in a campaign?

    Instead of talking about his terrible, no good, awful record. Of course he will.

    But it’s not “Trump’s” Project 2025 any more than the New Green Deal was Biden’s. His election denialism is old news, and in any event can be discussed without the existential rhetoric. Trump is NOT a “threat to the Republic” — the Republic is much stronger than that. It stood up to FDR and Jackson and Nixon and LBJ’s horrific war. Claiming that Trump is The Destroyer just calumny and bile posing as political speech.

    His lies, well Biden just has more practice and his lies aren’t as jarring.

    And, no, I don’t like Trump much, but I accept the things I cannot change.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  529. @542

    Trump is NOT a “threat to the Republic” — the Republic is much stronger than that. It stood up to FDR and Jackson and Nixon and LBJ’s horrific war. Claiming that Trump is The Destroyer just calumny and bile posing as political speech.

    His lies, well Biden just has more practice and his lies aren’t as jarring.

    And, no, I don’t like Trump much, but I accept the things I cannot change.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/15/2024 @ 7:45 am

    I’m glad that you’re articulating this

    I’ve been saying this since the aftermath of J6.

    J6 is absolutely condemnable, and Trump denialism and dubious postures in challenging that election is open for valid criticism.

    But to call Trump a “threat to Democracy” is pants-on-stupid, and frankly, is the same damn tactics that is used by Commies & Fascists in history.

    It’s engaging in deplorable “Otherisms” that is the hallmarks of Marxisms.

    whembly (477db6)

  530. If (again, IF) this was an intentional attack on Trump and his supporters, we know it will be blamed on 1) Trump’s rhetoric, and 2) guns.
    lloyd (c5341c) — 7/13/2024 @ 4:01 pm

    Both predictions confirmed:

    @530 “This is the problem with nominating someone who should have been impeached and convicted. It WILL lead to incendiary rhetoric and the potential for violence.”

    “It was just dumb luck that the violence was directed first at Trump versus Biden….”

    The silly season is in full swing.

    lloyd (9149dc)

  531. Anyone who donates to ActBlue superPAC is a dye-in-the-wool Democrat.

    Well, it shows a preference for the Left anyway. Registering as a Republican could be for other reasons, or just inertia after his break with his family.

    What I want to know is how he got his dad’s rifle.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  532. @545 Pennsylvania is a closed primary state.

    Democrats in these states were encouraged to register as Republicans to vote against Trump.

    whembly (477db6)

  533. Based on this he appears to have been conservative at least recently.

    The 15$ donation to act blue is interesting but I’m not sure what a small one time donation really tells us.

    He definitely doesn’t seem to have a very politically active person.

    Time123 (a8a8f3)

  534. It’s engaging in deplorable “Otherisms” that is the hallmarks of Marxisms.

    To be fair, it is the hallmark of all fascisms, as fascism’s core principle is in group identity and the superiority of a favored group and often the “othering” of some class enemy.

    Sometimes that favors Aryans, sometimes it’s the Proletariat. Oddly, both obvious disliked “the Jews.”

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  535. When my, calling the assault of Rand Paul an assasination attempt is incorrect.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/rand-paul-attacker-sentenced-additional-prison-time-over-yard-assault-n1235013

    Time123 (a8a8f3)

  536. He definitely doesn’t seem to have a very politically active person.

    Indeed. This guy was probably subject to periodic enthusiasms, which were based on external (and impersonal) ideas he internalized. This was a guy with a rich internal life and nothing much in the way of interaction with others.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  537. calling the assault of Rand Paul an assassination attempt is incorrect.

    Indeed. There was no attempt to kill, iirc.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  538. I agree that he could have registered GOP to vote against Trump in a closed primary. The $15 is not especially striking. It doesn’t scream radical….and no where near radical enough to sneak up on top of a building and start taking shots.

    The absence of social media evidence is weird. It would be unusual for a first gesture of political extremism to be taking sniper shots.

    If there was no such evidence of extremism or violent rhetoric, the father probably did not see the son as a threat. The gun may not have been locked away

    AJ_Liberty (0b1bf3)

  539. Good News on inflation. (Unless you hate America.)

    Overall prices fell in June from a month earlier. And burger lovers may soon especially benefit from this largesse, because fast-food chains have begun mobilizing for the “value menu wars.”

    In recent weeks, fast-food chains have been slashing prices left and right, first with the Burger King $5 Your Way Meal in mid-June. Then came the McDonald’s $5 Meal Deal, also available for a limited time. Not to be outdone, Taco Bell joined the fray with its $7 Luxe Cravings Box. Seemingly every chain is trying to undercut its competitors.

    (Links omitted.)

    Granted prices fell by a trivial amount (.1 percent) — which may be revised up, or down. But it is still true that the world-wide inflation caused by Putin, Trump, and Biden is easing. In the US, it is about 3 percent now. (The Fed target is 2 percent.)

    Jim Miller (5db8e0)

  540. Kevin, I hope your cake is tasty….with lots of icing.

    AJ_Liberty (0b1bf3)

  541. AJ, read what his classmates said about him.

    Time123 (a8a8f3)

  542. The $15 is not especially striking. It doesn’t scream radical….

    Well with someone else it could be to impress a girl or for mild or unrelated reasons. This guy though … it’s likely he did it in agreement with ActBlue, at least at the moment he did it.


    and no where near radical enough to sneak up on top of a building and start taking shots.


    A nationwide poll
    last month found that 10 percent of those surveyed said the “use of force is justified to prevent Donald Trump from becoming president.”

    Robert Pape, a political scientist at the University of Chicago who has studied American attitudes toward political violence since the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol by a pro-Trump mob, conducted a nationwide poll on the topic last month. It found that 10 percent of those surveyed said that the “use of force is justified to prevent Donald Trump from becoming president.” A third of those who gave that answer also said they owned a gun.

    Seven percent of those surveyed said they “support force to restore Trump to the presidency.” Half of them said they owned guns.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  543. If there was no such evidence of extremism or violent rhetoric, the father probably did not see the son as a threat.

    I doubt that he had much understanding of his son, who could have benefited from therapy. I wonder if he had any.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  544. #552 AJ – There are reports that Crooks communicated on Discord, rather than the more common platforms.

    Jim Miller (5db8e0)

  545. “He didn’t seem like really weird or anything. I would have pegged him as a Republican,” one former classmate told The Post in the aftermath of the shooting on Saturday.

    “He never outwardly spoke about his political views or how much he hated Trump or anything,” another Bethel Park High graduate, Sarah D’Angelo, told the Wall Street Journal Sunday morning.

    He also received a $500 National Math and Science Initiative Star Award during his graduating year, TribLive reported.

    Sounds like he was a bullied loner….whose biggest statement was dressing in hunting clothing. Smart enough, but not going to college and distanced from his family.

    AJ_Liberty (0b1bf3)

  546. But it is still true that the world-wide inflation caused by Putin, Trump, and Biden is easing.

    No, it wasn’t Putin. If it was Trump it was VERY delayed. IT is more likely that the inflationary pressures created by Trump’s Covid response were contained by the crisis itself. Biden’s additions (which were huge) came at a time when most people were getting back to normal and goosed the economy unnecessarily.

    Perhaps, by themselves, The 2021-22 stimulus would not have had such an effect, but they were not by themselves and Biden knew that and did it anyway as his objective had little to do with pandemic relief.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  547. “FBI officials said Sunday that they were combing Crooks’ background and social media activities while working to get access to his phone. The chatting app Discord, a social media platform popular with people playing online games, said Crooks appears to have had an account but used it rarely and not in the last several months. There’s no evidence he used his account to promote violence or discuss his political views, a Discord spokesperson said.” AP

    AJ_Liberty (0b1bf3)

  548. There are reports that Crooks communicated on Discord, rather than the more common platforms.

    Discord is for twitchy people. I wonder if he was a gamer.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  549. Disaffected, introverted, aloof and non-communicative. What were is passions? He must have had some. Did he read a lot of books? What about? Did he play games? Which ones? His browser history is important.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  550. Trump to announce running mate today.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  551. Kevin, he was a decent shot. I expect we will learn he liked shooting sports.

    Time123 (a8a8f3)

  552. “A law enforcement source told the New York Times that Crooks’ social media activity showed he liked to play chess and video games and was learning how to code.” LA Times

    Disturbing

    AJ_Liberty (0b1bf3)

  553. “Trump to announce running mate today.”

    Desperate times may re-elevate Noem. Trump needs a good shot…and ruthless

    AJ_Liberty (0b1bf3)

  554. @540

    whembly —

    This one will likely go the Supreme Court, so the delays will be until after Trump has another election stolen from him. The advantage is that whatever happens, Cannon will not get the case back.

    Appalled (061a72) — 7/15/2024 @ 7:40 am

    Of course you’d expect Smith to appeal and ask for Cannon be removed, but how would the 11th Circuit handle that given that she was following a concurrence written by the justice who oversees the 11th Circuit?

    Some tricky calculus here I would think…

    whembly (477db6)

  555. @567

    “Trump to announce running mate today.”

    Desperate times may re-elevate Noem. Trump needs a good shot…and ruthless

    AJ_Liberty (0b1bf3) — 7/15/2024 @ 8:32 am

    It’s probably JD Vance.

    The insurance pick… someone whom the establishment does NOT want to take Presidency if Trump dies.

    But, probably the most inspired pick is either Youngkin or Haley.

    whembly (477db6)

  556. Kevin, he was a decent shot. I expect we will learn he liked shooting sports.

    He did two things that saved Trump.

    1) He tried for a head shot. If he aimed for center-of-mass, the story today would be different.

    2) He didn’t correct for the crosswind.

    I’d be interested to know if he had a scope or other aiming assistance.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  557. Lines I want to hear:

    “And now, let’s all give a big hand for Marco Rubio”

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  558. Disturbing

    Not as disturbing as he was a math guy. Mathematicians are different.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  559. @569, agreed…that seems like where the good money is going. However, not sure how much JD brings electorally to the ticket. As I said before, it solidifies Trump’s anti-Ukraine bonafides and the MAGA base knows and likes him, but does it do much to bring home Michigan and Wisconsin?

    Nothing would surprise me at this point….though the internal dissent against Haley…and her lack of presence on the campaign trail with Trump to this point….would have to make her an extreme long shot. She would bring in independents and moderates…but just like Romney for Sec of State, it doesn’t fall inside the strict loyalty meme that MAGA exhibits\. Trump can’t afford to lose excitement in the base too.

    AJ_Liberty (0b1bf3)

  560. @573

    Trump can’t afford to lose excitement in the base too.

    I don’t think that’s possible at this point.

    He could tap just about anyone, and they’d still be excited to vote for Trump.

    whembly (477db6)

  561. And Trump can’t fire a VP.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  562. However, not sure how much JD brings electorally to the ticket. As I said before, it solidifies Trump’s anti-Ukraine bonafides and the MAGA base knows and likes him, but does it do much to bring home Michigan and Wisconsin?

    The next generation of MAGA.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  563. He could tap just about anyone, and they’d still be excited to vote for Trump.

    He could pick Hilary Clinton and they’d find a way that it was genius.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  564. “Not as disturbing as he was a math guy. Mathematicians are different.”

    Got to watch a coder…screams anti-social…

    AJ_Liberty (0b1bf3)

  565. WTF? Are your memories as short as Biden’s? Or is it your attention spans?

    Trump cannot say “Merry Christmas” without spewing hatred at somebody. Or any other holiday wish.

    And what point did you think you were making with J6 incitement at the Ellipse?

    nk (307817)

  566. Here are the basic numbers for Trump and Biden deficits:

    Deficits cause inflation. Even the Loser knows that.

    Wars cause inflation. The Loser may not know that, but his friend Putin does, and has been relying on it to pressure NATO members to reduce their support of Ukraine. (The rise in food costs has been especially hard on some east African nations that have been buying grains from Ukraine.

    Jim Miller (5db8e0)

  567. He could pick Hilary Clinton and they’d find a way that it was genius.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/15/2024 @ 8:51 am

    “Unifying.”

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  568. Got to watch a coder…screams anti-social…

    Hey! I resemble that remark!

    What do you think about people who design digital logic?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  569. Finger pointing:

    The rooftop where a gunman shot at former President Donald Trump during a campaign rally was identified by the Secret Service as a potential vulnerability in the days before the event, two sources familiar with the agency’s operations told NBC News.
    ………..
    “Someone should have been on the roof or securing the building so no one could get on the roof,” said one of the sources, a former senior Secret Service agent who was familiar with the planning.
    ………..
    ………..(N)o officers were posted on the building used by the would-be assassin, outside the event’s security perimeter but only about 148 yards from the stage — within range of a semiautomatic rifle like the one the gunman was carrying.

    The Secret Service had designated that rooftop as being under the jurisdiction of local law enforcement, a common practice in securing outdoor rallies, (Secret Service spokesman Anthony Guglielmi) said.

    Butler County District Attorney Richard Goldinger said his office maintains an Emergency Services Unit team, which deployed four sniper teams and four “quick response teams” at the rally. But he said the Secret Service agents were in charge of security outside the venue.
    ………..
    Goldinger said the commander of the Emergency Services Unit told him it was not responsible for securing areas outside the venue. “To me, the whole thing is under the jurisdiction of the Secret Service. And they will delineate from there,” he said.

    The former senior Secret Service agent also said that even if local law enforcement “did drop the ball,” it’s still the agency’s responsibility “to ensure that they are following through either beforehand or in the moment.”
    ……….
    Although it’s common to task local law enforcement agencies with patrolling outside an event’s security perimeter, Cangelosi said, the ultimate responsibility for ensuring that all vulnerabilities are covered rests with the Secret Service.

    If officials had placed an officer on the building where the gunman fired from, (Anthony Cangelosi, a former Secret Service agent who worked on protective details for presidential candidates) said, chances are he “wouldn’t even attempt what he attempted.”

    “You don’t surrender the discretion of what’s supposed to be done to the local police,” he said. “In other words, you guys have the outer perimeter, but you would want to say, ‘We need an officer on that roof.’ Not ‘that’s your responsibility; do what you see fit.’”
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  570. Here’s an explanation, for those who need it, of how Putin’s war caused inflation.

    Jim Miller (5db8e0)

  571. Yeah, I saw that about Sikking. I was a Hill Street fan, and his character was a favorite, although watching that show recently it seemed terribly dated and stereotyped.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/15/2024 @ 7:17 am

    I found Howard Hunter to be more one-dimensional than the other characters-too one-note. However, when Veronica Hamel (now 80) passes from the scene, I will truly be in mourning.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  572. > But to call Trump a “threat to Democracy” is pants-on-stupid

    The man was involved in a plot to steal an election using (among other things) people who were *impersonating federal officials* and blatant lies about election irregularities, and he almost succeeded.

    How is he *not* a threat to democracy?

    Seriously, on what basis do we assume that a Trump-run government and Congress would respect election results from blue states in 2028? The evidence from 2024 is that they wouldn’t — because you can be sure that there will be nobody in the administration like Pence to stand in the way.

    aphrael (1797ab)

  573. > The cynic would say that was what the electoral count fraud was all about. Team Trump wanted to throw out votes from key states….without genuine legal evidence…to get their preferred result. It’s a jump in logic to say that Trump would then not leave office in 2028 and thereby ignore the Constitution

    It may be a jump in logic, but at the same time, given his behavior in 2020, it requires blind faith and optimism (in someone who has already shown himself to be unworthy of it) to assume that he *would* leave office and follow the Constitution.

    Why would we want to n that risk?

    aphrael (1797ab)

  574. @586

    > But to call Trump a “threat to Democracy” is pants-on-stupid

    The man was involved in a plot to steal an election using (among other things) people who were *impersonating federal officials* and blatant lies about election irregularities, and he almost succeeded.

    How is he *not* a threat to democracy?

    aphrael (1797ab) — 7/15/2024 @ 9:15 am

    He did NOT ‘almost succeeded’.

    Please allow me to ask “and then what?” question: Say Pence refused to certify the ballots… and then what?

    Walk it through. Do the research and come back to me.

    Describe what would happen.

    And. Then. What?

    You will see they had zero chance to succeed.

    Zero.

    Criticize to your heart’s content…but, engaging in hyperbole just makes your arguments ridiculous.

    whembly (477db6)

  575. 2028? Trump’s gerbils in black robes are already poised to steal the election for him in 2024.

    Unlike 2020, they’re 6-3, not 4-4 with Kennedy as the fourth Republican vote, and they will entertain Paxton-style lawsuits to invalidate the elections of Biden states.

    nk (ec9824)

  576. “What do you think about people who design digital logic?”

    1. I’m pretty binary about them.
    2. Talking to them is as easy as 01, 10, 11
    3. Must explain things to them bit by bit
    4. Workaholics that must work around the clock
    5. Get directions with K-maps
    6. Bunch of flip-floppers
    7. Good chance dog is called Vivado
    8. Manifesto written in VHDL
    9. Don’t need no stinkin’ loops
    10. Get disturbed when a list like this has more than two items

    AJ_Liberty (0b1bf3)

  577. > Say Pence refused to certify the ballots… and then what?

    Pence refuses to certify. There are howls of outrage by the left. There are enough Trumpist congresspeople emboldened by this that a motion to override the rule of the chair fails, and the election goes to the House under the 11th amendment because there is no electoral college majority. Each state delegation votes, one vote per state, and Trump wins.

    aphrael (1797ab)

  578. “enough Trumpist congresspeople emboldened”
    aphrael (1797ab) — 7/15/2024 @ 9:52 am

    That’s doing a herculean lift there…

    No, there were nearly not enough “Trumpist congress people” to override the chair. Not even close.

    Your coming from pure 100% fabrication.

    whembly (477db6)

  579. Ooof… he just missed the Florida case dismissal by that much… but, the overall sentiment is thought-provoking:
    https://www.nationalreview.com/2024/07/mr-president-if-you-want-to-mend-our-political-divide-end-lawfare/?utm_source=recirc-desktop&utm_medium=homepage&utm_campaign=hero&utm_content=related&utm_term=first

    Mr. President, If You Want to Mend Our Political Divide, End Lawfare

    Doing the right thing by emphatically ending lawfare might not win the president reelection, but it would improve his chances.
    In the aftermath of the attempted murder of his rival, President Biden told the nation he wants to “lower the temperature in our politics,” renew the sense that “we are not enemies,” that we are “fellow Americans” who “must stand together.” With former president Trump barely cheating death, and with another American, Corey Comperatore, murdered by the assailant for simply exercising what Biden described as his “freedom to support the candidate of [his] choosing,” the president asked, “How do we go forward from here?”

    Beyond urging that we “stand together” despite our disagreements, Biden offered nothing specific. But here’s something: The president could take significant action that would cost him substantially nothing, would drastically improve his standing with the electorate, and would begin to bridge our deep political divide. He could put an end to lawfare.

    Doing the right thing by emphatically ending lawfare might not win the president reelection, but it would improve his chances. If he were to win, it might teach him that success in a second term lies in appealing to the decency and reason of ordinary Americans rather than caving to woke progressives. And even if Biden loses in November, ending lawfare would give him a legacy he now lacks as a guardian of the rule of law.

    And let’s face it: At some point, Biden is going to pardon his son Hunter. The younger Biden is facing conviction and imprisonment on serious offenses in two felony prosecutions, even as the president stresses that his son has tried mightily to overcome his demons. Everyone can understand a father’s love for his son. But not everyone can excuse a president’s exercise of clemency in favor of his courtiers. That exercise would be a lot easier to swallow — just like the Biden Justice Department’s decision not to prosecute Biden’s own classified-information offenses would be a lot easier to swallow — if the president showed the same solicitude to his political opponent.

    Sunday evening, the president said that Americans are not “enemies” of each other — that “we are friends and co-workers, citizens and most importantly fellow Americans,” who are bonded together despite our political differences. It is one thing for Joe Biden to say that. It’s another to prove that he means it. He can do that, cost-free but to great political benefit, by ending lawfare.

    Read the whole thing.

    I don’t think Biden will do it. But, if he’s looking for an “out” to also pardon his son (and maybe the rest of his family)… it may be an easier pill to swallow if he does end the lawfare.

    whembly (477db6)

  580. DJT up 10 points (33%)

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  581. I found Howard Hunter to be more one-dimensional than the other characters-too one-note.

    Sure, as I said, stereotypes. Jesus Martinez was worse. Hill Street really doesn’t hold up all that well today, even though it’s the root of much of today’s television.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  582. @592

    Whembly, there were several ‘paths’ forward for Trump.

    1. Force the vote to the house and win along party lines.
    2. Delay things and get a GOP lead state to invalidate the results. There’s plenty of evidence he was trying this in GA.
    3. Use egal challenges to delay certification and for Trump to continue to govern while those were ‘resolved’
    4. Use false allegations of fraud to justify congressional investigations that delayed the transfer of power and allow Trump to stay in office.

    The basic pattern is the same. Refuse to acknowledge the loss. Hold on to power based on whatever excuse works best. Try to create a pretext for a re-vote or some other way to claim legitimacy.

    All had more support from GOP then the protest votes we’ve seen in past elections, none was ‘moving smoothly’.

    But Trump wasn’t a good leader and was hampered by the presence of ppl in his administration that refused to lie for him. This looks very different with a compliant DOJ that’s willing to open baseless investigations or a state leadership in GA or MI that were more willing to go along with the plan or at least refuse to certify based on the lies about fraud.

    For some reason you keep asserting that because Trump’s attempt to steal the election wasn’t competent the fact that it was sincere isn’t a disqualifying threat to democracy.

    Time123 (316585)

  583. and he almost succeeded.

    No. If Pence had been equally stupid and ruled as Trump wanted, he would have been challenged, lost, and probably removed as chair. And Trump would have been convicted later as a result.

    Don’t they teach lawyers Robert’s Rules any more?

    Outside of some fevered fantasies in the WH, there was no path to success. None.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  584. There are enough Trumpist congresspeople emboldened by this that a motion to override the rule of the chair fails

    It only takes a majority. They barely had that and there are not enough utter morons in Congress to even go there. A majority of the Senate voted to convict.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  585. @593. Based on the evidence asserted in the indictment Trump’s classified documents case is very well founded.

    I’d like a pardonas a means to lower the temperature. To really be effective it would need to come with with admissions of guilt on Trump’s part as well as an acknowledgement that the claims of fraud were false.

    Time123 (316585)

  586. No. If Pence had been equally stupid and ruled as Trump wanted, he would have been challenged, lost, and probably removed as chair. And Trump would have been convicted later as a result.

    Based on the way the current cases of have gone I think conviction would be very unlikely.

    The basic strategy was delay by any pretext possible, Govern as the incumbent, keep holding power by any pretext possible.

    Time123 (316585)

  587. aphrael,

    PA’s electoral procedures violated the letter of the PA constitution and the county-by-county rules on accepting votes favored voters in liberal areas (conservatives were more conservative about accepting votes).

    Even then the vote to certify PA’s electoral votes was 92-7 in the Senate, and 282-138. More than 2/3rds of the total voted to accept the ballots. What evidence can you muster to suggest that they would have voted differently on an usurpation by Pence?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  588. Based on the way the current cases of have gone I think conviction would be very unlikely.

    convicted by the Senate, who would have been pissed at the effrontery.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  589. @594

    DJT up 10 points (33%)

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/15/2024 @ 10:11 am

    In what? Looks dubious af.

    whembly (477db6)

  590. To really be effective it would need to come with with admissions of guilt

    Pardons are unconditional. I don’t expect to see them from Biden unless Trump loses. I can see Biden asking Gov Hochul to pardon Trump for the Stormy case to lower the temperature. I can see Trump pardoning Hunter if he wins, for the same reasons (with everyone calling it a quid pro quo). The documents and J6 cases would be delayed until 2029, and the next president would have that call.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  591. In what? Looks dubious af.

    In the stock market. DJT is the ticker symbol for Trump Media.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  592. An usurpation by Pence would have changed the default from needing a majority of both Houses to reject a state’s Electoral votes to needing a majority of both Houses to accept it, but, given the balance of power on both sides in Congress, the outcome would have been the same, except there would have been more arguing over procedures. You wouldn’t have the 2-hour limit on debate for each state. And it’s not clear what it was proposed Pence should do. Postpone the counting for ten days? Count votes that hadn’t been certified by the Governor of the state? Throw out the votes of six states, leavibg Trump in the lead 232-227?

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  593. Judge Cannon just ruled that documents case should be dismissed because Jack Smith never was properly appointed. He was appointed to a subordinate office that doesn’t exist, The same logic would apply to the J6 case.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  594. probably removed as chair.

    I think he could be. Because the constitution doesn’t say the Vice President of the United States, but the president of the Senate,

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  595. I do not have a clear idea of the layout Saturday at the Butler Farm Show grounds, It is not even clear to me which way Trump was facing, So I don’t understand how urning his head might have saved him.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  596. An usurpation by Pence would have changed the default from needing a majority of both Houses to reject a state’s Electoral votes to needing a majority of both Houses to accept it

    No, it would simple have needed a majority of the combined houses to nullify his ruling, then it would have reverted to the previous case.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  597. The Secret Service simply isn’t the expert agency it is reputed to be, Sometimes they are overprotective, a few things they know, like where is the nearest trauma hospital and how to fall n someone like a linebacker (and hurt them) and some things they are incompetent at like what do you do if you see man with a rifle who hasn’t opened fire.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  598. Not Rubio

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  599. Not Little Marco????!!! I’m shocked!

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5)

  600. Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/15/2024 @ 7:31 am

    Theists: That was the breath of G*D that saved Trump!

    Atheists: No, that was Global Warming that saved…uh….

    felipe (6b880b)

  601. The Secret Service simply isn’t the expert agency it is reputed to be…..

    Ain’t that the truth.

    Rip Murdock (dbfed5)

  602. Not Burghum

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  603. @605

    In what? Looks dubious af.

    In the stock market. DJT is the ticker symbol for Trump Media.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/15/2024 @ 10:44 am

    Oh.

    Yeah, that’s impressive.

    whembly (477db6)

  604. Before anyone “poo poo” Judge Cannon’s ruling, I highly encourage you to read the whole opinion.

    She takes every argument for and against… and gives her rationale.

    Here’s her opinion’s conclusion:

    CONCLUSION
    Upon careful study of the foundational challenges raised in the Motion, the Court is
    convinced that Special Counsel’s Smith’s prosecution of this action breaches two structural cornerstones of our constitutional scheme—the role of Congress in the appointment ofconstitutional officers, and the role of Congress in authorizing expenditures by law.

    The Framers gave Congress a pivotal role in the appointment of principal and inferiorofficers. That role cannot be usurped by the Executive Branch or diffused elsewhere—whether in this case or in another case, whether in times of heightened national need or not. In the case of inferior officers, that means that Congress is empowered to decide if it wishes to vest appointment power in a Head of Department, and indeed, Congress has proven itself quite capable of doing so
    in many other statutory contexts. But it plainly did not do so here, despite the Special Counsel’s strained statutory readings. Nor does his appeal to inconsistent “historical practice” supplant the absence of textual authorization for his appointment. The same structural emphases resonate in the context of the Appropriation Clause, which “embodies a fundamental separation of powers
    principle—subjugating the executive branch to the legislatures power of the purse.” All American, 33 F.4th at 221 (Jones, J., concurring).

    In the end, it seems the Executive’s growing comfort in appointing “regulatory” special counsels in the more recent era has followed an ad hoc pattern with little judicial scrutiny. Perhaps this can be traced back to reliance on stray dictum in Nixon that perpetuated in subsequent cases. Perhaps it can be justified practically by the urgency of national crises. Or perhaps it can be explained by the relative infrequency of these types of investigations, by congressional inattention, or by the important roles that special-counsel-like figures have played in our country’s history.

    Regardless of the explanation, the present Motion requires careful analysis of the statutory landscape to ensure compliance with the Constitution, and the Court has endeavored to do so with care.

    The Court thus returns to where it started. The Appointments Clause is “among the
    significant structural safeguards of the constitutional scheme.” Edmond, 520 U.S. at 659. So too is the Appropriations Clause, which carefully separates Congressional control of the “purse” from Executive control of the “sword.” The Federalist No. 78 (Alexander Hamilton). The consequences of relaxing either of those critical provisions are serious, both in this case and beyond. As Justice Frankfurter explained in his opinion in Youngstown, “[t]he accretion of dangerous power does not come in a day. It does come, however slowly, from the generative force of unchecked disregard of the restrictions that fence in even the most disinterested assertion of authority.” Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. v. Sawyer, 343 U.S. 579, 594 (1952) (Frankfurter, J., concurring). “[I]llegitimate and unconstitutional practices get their first footing . . . by silent approaches and slight deviations from legal modes of procedure.” Boyd v. United States, 116 U.S. 616, 635 (1886).

    ***
    For the reasons set forth above, it is ORDERED AND ADJUDGED as follows:
    1. Defendants’ Motion to Dismiss Superseding Indictment Based on Unlawful Appointment and Funding of Special Counsel Jack Smith is GRANTED in accordance with this Order [ECF No. 326].
    2. The Superseding Indictment [ECF No. 85] is DISMISSED.
    3. This Order is confined to this proceeding. The Court decides no other legal rights or claims.
    4. This Order shall not affect or weaken any of the protections for classified information imposed in this case or any protective orders pertaining to classified information.
    5. The Clerk is directed to CLOSE this case. Any scheduled hearings are CANCELLED. Any pending motions are DENIED AS MOOT, and any pending deadlines are TERMINATED.

    DONE AND ORDERED in Chambers at Fort Pierce, Florida, this 15th day of July 2024.

    whembly (477db6)

  605. It is Vance

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  606. Assassination insurance.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  607. I know nevertrump wants Jack Smith to get Trump and will get hysterical over it, and at the same time be all worked up over unchecked Executive powers.
    The Supreme Court has been gently telling Congress “Use your powers, do your job”. One of the reasons for that is that there are procedural issues like this one.
    The Congress has informally, “off the books” ceded power to the Executive, in this case to Biden AG Garland. Do nevertrumpers really want a future authoritarian to have a precedent based unchecked power like this one?
    This is a good case to test. I hope it gets thrown back at Congress and they stop being lazy and check the Executive. They can rubber stamp “check” it if they want, but legally they should follow the procedure as set out in the Constitution.
    The case here involves acts by Trump while sitting President (taking the documents) and actions post Presidency – if there was ever a time to follow procedure to the letter, it’d be this one

    The AG has other alternatives at his/her disposal

    steveg (62baea)

  608. toldya… and yea, assassination insurance.

    But, also energizes the MAGA base.

    Missed opportunity to pick Youngkin or Haley tho.

    whembly (477db6)

  609. @621

    I know nevertrump wants Jack Smith to get Trump and will get hysterical over it, and at the same time be all worked up over unchecked Executive powers.
    The Supreme Court has been gently telling Congress “Use your powers, do your job”. One of the reasons for that is that there are procedural issues like this one.
    The Congress has informally, “off the books” ceded power to the Executive, in this case to Biden AG Garland. Do nevertrumpers really want a future authoritarian to have a precedent based unchecked power like this one?
    This is a good case to test. I hope it gets thrown back at Congress and they stop being lazy and check the Executive. They can rubber stamp “check” it if they want, but legally they should follow the procedure as set out in the Constitution.
    The case here involves acts by Trump while sitting President (taking the documents) and actions post Presidency – if there was ever a time to follow procedure to the letter, it’d be this one

    The AG has other alternatives at his/her disposal

    steveg (62baea) — 7/15/2024 @ 12:08 pm

    Furthermore, the Immunity cases gives Trump, at least presumptive immunity for handling classified information. Kinda hard to build a case.

    whembly (477db6)

  610. Don’t Miss Next Time

    Actor-musician Jack Black went viral on social media Monday after his bandmate Kyle Gass could be heard making an awful comment regarding the assassination attempt against former President Donald Trump.

    The viral moment apparently occurred on Saturday night at a concert for Black and Gass’s band Tenacious D, Yahoo News reports. Gass, who turned 64 on Sunday, was presented with a cake at the concert and told to “make a wish,” by Black. Gass then appears to hold the microphone up and can be heard hissing: “don’t miss Trump next time.”

    “Thank you,” Black then appears to reply.

    lloyd (120470)

  611. JD Vance makes sense as a pick. It gives MAGA a second chapter that isn’t DeSantis.

    Nobody will vote for Trump (or against Trump) because of his running mate this time around. (That was not true in 2016)

    Appalled (061a72)

  612. whembly:

    How does an ex-president have presumptive immunity for retaining and refusing to return classified documents? That seems beyond the pale of the rights the Supreme Court created.

    Appalled (061a72)

  613. >I hope it gets thrown back at Congress and they stop being lazy and check the Executive

    Impossible under current political circumstances.

    This is actually really bad as a policy matter, because it means that there is *no way* for DoJ to investigate and prosecute a politician in a way that preserves the investigation from a conflict of interest based in the political needs of the President or the AG.

    Congress isn’t going to fix it, so we’re just going to sleep walk into the future with no way for the government to successfully prosecute corruption by government officials.

    I’m not cynical enough to believe that promoting corruption is the intent, but it’s certainly going to be the outcome.

    aphrael (1797ab)

  614. > How does an ex-president have presumptive immunity for retaining and refusing to return classified documents? That seems beyond the pale of the rights the Supreme Court created.

    Because any evidence as to his state of mind when deciding to keep the documents (a decision made while still President) is inadmissible.

    aphrael (1797ab)

  615. @626

    whembly:

    How does an ex-president have presumptive immunity for retaining and refusing to return classified documents? That seems beyond the pale of the rights the Supreme Court created.

    Appalled (061a72) — 7/15/2024 @ 12:21 pm

    Presidents has plenary declassification powers.

    It may be that ‘classification handling’ is a core POTUS power (not sure about it), in which would give total immunity to Presidents.

    I think, at the very least, POTUS has presumptive immunity as it is a functionary of POTUS’ day-to-day operations.

    Trump ordering his stuff, which includes classified stuff, in his office to be boxed and shipped from WH to Mara-la-go, by this deed “declassifies” the stuff in the boxes.

    Under total immunity, the prosecution couldn’t bring the case.

    Under presumptive immunity, the prosecution has to rebut any immunity claims, with a caveat: the prosecution wouldn’t be able to get into whether or not Trump did or thought about declassifying the stuff in the boxes.

    Kinda hard to craft a prosecution after that… doncha think?

    As to the obstruction charges… there *might* be a case there. Maybe…simply because there was a subpoena. But, if you couldn’t get in whether or not the stuff on boxes were classified or not, it doesn’t look like it’s a strong case.

    whembly (477db6)

  616. Note that Vance, describing his view of 2020, said that he wouldn’t have approved the electors, but would instead have asked the states to send *multiple competing slates of electors* and let Congress decide.

    > VANCE: If I had been vice president, I would have told the states, like Pennsylvania, Georgia and so many others that we needed to have multiple slates of electors and I think the U.S. Congress should have fought over it from there. That is the legitimate way to deal with an election that a lot of folks, including me, think had a lot of problems in 2020. I think that’s what we should have done.

    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/week-transcript-2-4-24-white-house-national/story?id=106926540

    I think the only rational assumption to make is that in 2029 he’d take the same position, and that under a Trump/Vance presidency the *only* way the 2028 election will be decided is by the House.

    aphrael (1797ab)

  617. @627

    >I hope it gets thrown back at Congress and they stop being lazy and check the Executive

    Impossible under current political circumstances.

    This is actually really bad as a policy matter, because it means that there is *no way* for DoJ to investigate and prosecute a politician in a way that preserves the investigation from a conflict of interest based in the political needs of the President or the AG.

    Congress isn’t going to fix it, so we’re just going to sleep walk into the future with no way for the government to successfully prosecute corruption by government officials.

    I’m not cynical enough to believe that promoting corruption is the intent, but it’s certainly going to be the outcome.

    aphrael (1797ab) — 7/15/2024 @ 12:23 pm

    Of course the DoJ can prosecute politicians (former or otherwise).

    It just needs to be something more black and white… (ie, like Murder or Bribery). Not these majority of these cases whereby prosecutions has to employ novel legal contortions to fit their parameters.

    whembly (477db6)

  618. So, Whembly, as a policy matter, are you comfortable with ex-Presidents keeping classified documents in insecure decisions forever? What kind of check on that behavior would you support?

    aphrael (1797ab)

  619. @628

    > How does an ex-president have presumptive immunity for retaining and refusing to return classified documents? That seems beyond the pale of the rights the Supreme Court created.

    Because any evidence as to his state of mind when deciding to keep the documents (a decision made while still President) is inadmissible.

    aphrael (1797ab) — 7/15/2024 @ 12:24 pm

    Yup… said more succinctly than my bloviations… 😀

    whembly (477db6)

  620. > Of course the DoJ can prosecute politicians (former or otherwise).

    Not without the *appearance of a conflict of interest*, because without an independent prosecutor, the appearance of conflict of interest is inevitable.

    That’s the entire reason why these things are regularly delegated to special prosecutors.

    aphrael (1797ab)

  621. @633

    So, Whembly, as a policy matter, are you comfortable with ex-Presidents keeping classified documents in insecure decisions forever? What kind of check on that behavior would you support?

    aphrael (1797ab) — 7/15/2024 @ 12:32 pm

    Not really. No.

    But, I don’t see any alternative.

    Presidents and formers are unique political figures who enjoys a permanent status that non-POTUS could ever get.

    They are treated differently.

    I don’t know if the laws/regulation has changed, but for years after Bush Sr. left office, he still received presidential daily briefings (PDB), classified at the highest level possible. (it was thought that this was done because he was also the former CIA secretary) I don’t know if all former presidents got that… or could continue to get them post-Presidency.

    In a way, the President is such a unique brotherhood, it wouldn’t surprise me if that still happens and that they all talk to each other to give advice to sitting Presidents.

    But, they sure as hell wouldn’t publicize it.

    whembly (477db6)

  622. Whembly, Classified material is government property. The declassification doesn’t just remove the markings, it makes the documents not classified. Trump is free to argue that he declassified those documents but there are a few headwinds

    1. If Trump can mentally declassify a document Biden can mentally undo it.
    2. In previous case where Trump stated on Twitter that he’d declassified something the Trump administration stated that their administration was bound by the process and that his public statement wasn’t sufficient.
    3. His refusal to return the documents and acts to prevent their return stand alone. It’s not a stretch to start with the documents in his possession and ignore how they got there.

    Time123 (316585)

  623. @635

    > Of course the DoJ can prosecute politicians (former or otherwise).

    Not without the *appearance of a conflict of interest*, because without an independent prosecutor, the appearance of conflict of interest is inevitable.

    That’s the entire reason why these things are regularly delegated to special prosecutors.

    aphrael (1797ab) — 7/15/2024 @ 12:33 pm

    Again. I disagree.

    There was no conflict of interest for the FL US Attorney to investigate the Florida documents case.

    The special/independent counsel often ends up being rogue/politicize anyways… and to be technical about it… the current special counsel regulation can NEVER be independent, as the AG/POTUS can fire the person for any reason for any cause.

    Better to instill strong accountability and put the elected official’s feet to the fire to ensure any investigations is done transparently and with good faith.

    whembly (477db6)

  624. @637

    Whembly, Classified material is government property.

    Irrelevant to the discussion.

    The declassification doesn’t just remove the markings, it makes the documents not classified. Trump is free to argue that he declassified those documents but there are a few headwinds

    Trump said he declassified it.

    The recent SCOTUS court makes it really difficult, if not impossible for the prosecution to rebut that.

    1. If Trump can mentally declassify a document Biden can mentally undo it.

    Possibly. But, I’m unaware of any declaration from the Biden camp that they intentionally reclassified everything. Which doesn’t makes sense, because they didn’t know what Trump had.

    2. In previous case where Trump stated on Twitter that he’d declassified something the Trump administration stated that their administration was bound by the process and that his public statement wasn’t sufficient.

    Current SCOTUS Immunity doctrine changed this.

    3. His refusal to return the documents and acts to prevent their return stand alone. It’s not a stretch to start with the documents in his possession and ignore how they got there.

    Time123 (316585) — 7/15/2024 @ 12:41 pm

    I stated earlier that the obstruction charges may still be viable. But, if any of the decision arising from these charges touches on any Presidential acts during his presidency… it complicates that case to the degree that may not be worth pursuing.

    whembly (477db6)

  625. > ensure any investigations is done transparently and with good faith.

    The investigation of the classified documents here *was* done transparently and with good faith, and yet Trump is going to walk.

    aphrael (1797ab)

  626. @639, sounds like if the president does it can’t be a crime. That may be the impact of the decision but seems like terrible policy. Especially in this case where there was no need to take resolute action, just a overgrown toddlers desire to keep something because he wanted it.

    Time123 (316585)

  627. Now FBI staffer is in hot water over vile posts about Trump’s assassination attempt

    An FBI staffer has been accused of posting a vile message where she expressed regret that Donald Trump was not killed in an assassination attempt on Saturday.

    Jenna Howell, who reportedly works at the FBI’S research identity department, posted an image of the grim reaper trying to pick a Trump doll from a claw machine, according to The Federalist.

    The caption read: ‘Awww so close.’

    Howell tagged a friend and added: ‘The memes… the memes are gold.

    The FBI employee also shared a meme appearing to criticizing those denouncing the political violence.

    The meme read: ‘Y’all gun-toting, 2nd Amendment-loving hillbillies better just sit down and stay quiet unless you’re gonna change your mind on gun control.

    lloyd (120470)

  628. > seems like terrible policy

    It is, but that’s the law now, and the only way to change it is to get the Supreme Court to reconsider. So it’s locked in for at least a generation.

    aphrael (1797ab)

  629. Cannon will be reversed…and removed from the case. Obviously, too little, too late. She’s not following precedent.

    JD Vance tells me team Trump feels good about their lead and that they don’t need outreach to Haley voters, suburban women, minorities, and Michigan voters who especially dislike Biden. Despite Vance’s initial criticism of Trump (can stomach him, leading us to a dark place), this is probably the best soulmate and someone junior enough that can be steamrolled by Trump wanting to be Trump. JD Vance will not be calling retired appeals court judges for advice. He’ll be buds with the Trump boys.

    AJ_Liberty (0b1bf3)

  630. But, also energizes the MAGA base.

    To what end? It tells the other 30% of the party that they aren’t invited. It tells independents that Trump doesn’t care. But — as in everything else — Trump plays to his base.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  631. Cannon will be reversed…and removed from the case.

    Probably not before January 20, 2025.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  632. > She’s not following precedent.

    Neither is the Roberts court.

    aphrael (1797ab)

  633. Missed opportunity to pick Youngkin or Haley tho.

    whembly (477db6) — 7/15/2024 @ 12:09 pm

    Not really. Neither would have carried the MAGA movement forward.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  634. >I hope it gets thrown back at Congress and they stop being lazy and check the Executive

    It was the Supreme Court that cut Congress off at the knees in the 80s with INS v Chadha. When FDR created the big regulatory agencies, and Congress delegated significant legislative power to them, it withheld final approval of regulations. The theory was that no law could pass if either House opposed it, so a majority vote in either House would veto a regulation.

    This worked for 50 years until an INS ruling for Chadha was vetoed by the House. He sued and won, with the 7-2 majority kicking out the Congressional veto, while finding that the agency creation was severable.

    Now, to defeat a regulation, Congress would have to pass a law, and presumably override a Presidential veto. This has never been done and transferred ENORMOUS power from Congress to the Executive.

    In dissent:

    Justice White, dissenting, argued that (1) the legislative veto power is absolutely necessary to modern government, as exemplified by the legislative veto powers granted in the War Powers Act of 1973. (2) The absence of constitutional provisions for alternate methods of action does not imply their prohibition by the Constitution, and the court has consistently read the Constitution to respond to contemporary needs with flexibility. (3) The legislative veto power does not involve the ability of Congress to enact new legislation without bicameral consensus or presentation to the president, but instead involves the ability of Congress to veto suggestions by the executive, a power that both houses of Congress already possess. (4) The court has allowed Congress to delegate authority to executive agencies; lawmaking does not always require bicameralism or presentation. (5) The bicameralism and presentation provisions of the Constitution serve to ensure that no departure from the status quo takes place without consensus from both houses of Congress and the President or by a super-majority vote of both houses of Congress. In this case, the deportation of Chadha is the status quo situation, and the veto by House of Representatives of an alternative suggestion of the executive branch is reasonable given the purposes of bicameralism and the Presentment Clause.

    Justice Rehnquist, in a dissent joined by White, argued that it is unlikely that Congress would have promulgated § 244(a)(1) without the corresponding provisions of §§ 244(c)(1–2). Therefore, the provisions are not severable from one another, and holding one unconstitutional requires invalidating the other.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  635. Of course the DoJ can prosecute politicians (former or otherwise).

    The only difference is that there will be claims of political motivation.

    Oh, wait.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  636. Because any evidence as to his state of mind when deciding to keep the documents (a decision made while still President) is inadmissible.

    Then, as ex-President, when he was asked for their return and instead hid them? How is that off the table?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  637. @640

    > ensure any investigations is done transparently and with good faith.

    The investigation of the classified documents here *was* done transparently and with good faith…

    aphrael (1797ab) — 7/15/2024 @ 12:48 pm

    I dispute that, as we don’t have all the fact.

    All you have is the prosecution’s allegations, and it wasn’t tested in arguments before the court.

    whembly (477db6)

  638. > She’s not following precedent.

    Neither is the Roberts court.

    Perhaps, but the Supreme Court is not obligated to do so.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  639. @644

    Cannon will be reversed…

    Unlikely, but we’ll see.

    Don’t forget, the Circuit Court has seen Justice Thomas’ concurrence that Cannon has essentially incorporated in her decision.

    and removed from the case.

    lol, no.

    Obviously, too little, too late. She’s not following precedent.

    AJ_Liberty (0b1bf3) — 7/15/2024 @ 1:13 pm

    Just to be clear bucko…

    Courts frequently uphold statutes or regulations against challenges and then later strikes them down because someone finally makes the right arguments as to why they are unlawful or unconstitutional.

    Case in point: Dobbs.

    whembly (477db6)

  640. @645

    But, also energizes the MAGA base.

    To what end? It tells the other 30% of the party that they aren’t invited. It tells independents that Trump doesn’t care. But — as in everything else — Trump plays to his base.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/15/2024 @ 1:18 pm

    I read Hillbilly Elegy and I think folks are underestimating him.

    One good thing you can point out: He’s a young GenX’er or elder GenY’er. (39 yo).

    whembly (477db6)

  641. @652

    Because any evidence as to his state of mind when deciding to keep the documents (a decision made while still President) is inadmissible.

    Then, as ex-President, when he was asked for their return and instead hid them? How is that off the table?

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/15/2024 @ 1:37 pm

    Like I said, it probably isn’t.

    Subpoena said: “gimme doc ‘x’ “.

    Prosecutor said: “Trump didn’t give doc ‘x’ “.

    Court hearing/resolution need to determine if Trump committed obstruction.

    Defense hasn’t mounted a defense yet, so we don’t know how this would play out now.

    whembly (477db6)

  642. > Then, as ex-President, when he was asked for their return and instead hid them? How is that off the table?

    He claims to have declassified them mentally (without following procedure), and no evidence regarding his state of mind at the time he allegedly declassified them is inadmissible.

    Seriously, I think whembly is right that this case is now unprosecutable, so while I don’t *like* Cannon’s decision here, I think the case is dead.

    aphrael (1797ab)

  643. > lol, no

    At some point there will be a basis for doing this; she’s pretty clearly either in over her head, or in the bag for Trump, or both, and there are mechanisms for removing judges under such circumstances.

    aphrael (1797ab)

  644. Court hearing/resolution need to determine if Trump committed obstruction.

    It remains “mishandling classified material”

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  645. I’m gonna be the first to say it here: J D Vance’s wife is hot. Also, the daughter of immigrants.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  646. Biden is back-peddling on his “bull’s-eye” comment.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  647. > It remains “mishandling classified material”

    But whether or not it is classified is the key question, and there is no way to introduce evidence that it is, in the face of Trump’s claim that he declassified it in his mind (without going through procedure), *unless* we somehow establish a rule that the procedure must be followed.

    But even if he violated the law by declassifying outside of procedure, how can we establish that it was actually still classified despite his claims, if we can’t introduce evidence of his mental state at the time of alleged declassification?

    aphrael (1797ab)

  648. > I dispute that, as we don’t have all the fact.

    Given that we (a) know that the documents were in Trump’s possession, (b) know that he didn’t turn them over in response to a subpoena for them, and (c) know that he never went through proper declassification procedures, on what basis do you assume bad faith in the DoJ?

    Looks to me like *all* the bad faith here is on Trump’s side.

    Yeah, legally he’s entitled to a defense, but given the information on offer, to conclude that he’s innocent and the DoJ is acting in bad faith is … really only something you can do if you’re a partisan who has decided that Trump is always right and his opponents are always wrong.

    aphrael (1797ab)

  649. But whether or not it is classified is the key question

    It’s classified unless and until evidence shows it isn’t. And there is none or Trump would have introduced it in an early demurer.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  650. > It’s classified unless and until evidence shows it isn’t. And there is none or Trump would have introduced it in an early demurer.

    He claims he declassified it outside of proper procedure.

    What evidence can be introduced to rebut that claim?

    aphrael (1797ab)

  651. My hope for this campaign is that it will focus on the issues. I want Trump forced to talk about Ukraine and NATO. I want Biden forced to talk about interest rates and the border. I want them to both stop with the personalities, which is the first refuge of politicians who cannot face the issues.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  652. What evidence can be introduced to rebut that claim?

    Don’t need any. The burden of proof is on him. Entirely on him.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  653. I don’t believe Vance is a true conservative, but I will be happy to be proven wrong.

    Good luck in the campaign. Prefer proven conservatives like Cruz and DeSantis.

    NJRob (1da44c)

  654. Trump’s just lost Michigan, JD Vance is a big tOSU guy, and there’s nothing that Michiganders hate more than Buckeye’s.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  655. I don’t believe Vance is a true conservative, but I will be happy to be proven wrong.

    Well, I don’t believe that Trump is a “true conservative”, since he’s a radical and radicals aren’t conservatives by definition.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  656. Alleged Trump shooter spotted by law enforcement nearly 30 minutes before shots fired

    According to multiple law enforcement sources, Thomas Crooks was spotted by law enforcement on a roof nearly 30 minutes before shots were fired that injured Trump, killed a former fire chief, and injured two others in the crowd.

    Channel 11′s Nicole Ford confirmed that Beaver County’s ESU team had eight members at the rally, including snipers and spotters. According to Ford’s sources, one of them noticed a suspicious man on a roof near the rally at 5:45 p.m., called it in and took a picture of the person. We have learned from our sources the person in that picture is Thomas Crooks. We’re told it’s not clear if Crooks had a gun with him at that point.

    According to multiple sources, a law enforcement officer had also previously seen Crooks on the ground and called him in as a suspicious person with a picture prior to 5:45 p.m. Our sources tell us an officer checked the grounds for Crooks at that point, but did not see him where the first picture was taken.

    26 minutes after the second picture of Crooks was taken by law enforcement and the information called in, shots were fired from the roof of the American Glass Research building. Seconds later, a Secret Service sniper returned fire and killed Crooks.

    lloyd (120470)

  657. Don’t forget, the Circuit Court has seen Justice Thomas’ concurrence that Cannon has essentially incorporated in her decision.

    Which wasn’t joined by any other Justice.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  658. Trump’s choice of Vance shouldn’t have been a surprise. He picked someone who agrees with him (unlike Nikki Haley, for example) on protectionism, abandoning Ukraine, central planning through government sponsored “industrial policy”, and immigration restrictions, as well as a whole host of other issues. But his selection does show that Trump was willing to forgive and forget Vance’s prior criticisms of Trump as “cultural heroin.”

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  659. If you want to get a really good breakdown of the tactical part of the Trump shooting, Mike has a great detailed review of it.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  660. Bruh…
    https://x.com/accountablegop/status/1812940196062642365?s=51&t=LbMzhpSB3yC2zvXzo7p_lA

    AccountableGOP (@Republican Voters Against Trump) posted:
    JD Vance: “We need a De-Ba’athification program in the U.S….We should seize the administrative state for our own purposes. We should fire all of the people…every single middle-level bureaucrat, every civil servant in the administrative state. Replace them with our people.”

    whembly (477db6)

  661. @674

    Don’t forget, the Circuit Court has seen Justice Thomas’ concurrence that Cannon has essentially incorporated in her decision.

    Which wasn’t joined by any other Justice.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/15/2024 @ 3:55 pm

    And? That doesn’t mean anything.

    My point was that Justice Thomas covers the 11th Circuit, and I’m sure those appellate will take that into consideration.

    We’ll know soon quickly though.

    whembly (477db6)

  662. “Just to be clear bucko…”

    That’s too funny….an “internet lawyer” who for months confused accusation with evidence against Biden….lecturing on what the law is. I learned long ago to be modest with what the law requires. There are arguments on both sides with good lawyers trying to distinguish facts from precedent. I don’t see Cannon as being the last word on who can be a special prosecutor or that Clarence Thomas’ dicta will matter. I also doubt that obstruction charges get washed away because of a declassification process that appears to have only happened in Trump’s mind. It may not matter with November approaching and potentially a new administration, but weird occurrences are in the breeze. I expect more this week. I remain optimistic for a Harris-Whitmer ticket….or may Joe finding the fountain of youth…

    AJ_Liberty (0b1bf3)

  663. Sorry about forgetting that closing link.

    Jim Miller (192368)

  664. D

    on’t forget, the Circuit Court has seen Justice Thomas’ concurrence that Cannon has essentially incorporated in her decision.

    Which wasn’t joined by any other Justice.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/15/2024 @ 3:55 pm

    And? That doesn’t mean anything.

    My point was that Justice Thomas covers the 11th Circuit, and I’m sure those appellate will take that into consideration.

    We’ll know soon quickly though.

    whembly (477db6) — 7/15/2024 @ 4:28 pm

    Actually, the fact that no other Justice was convinced by Thomas’s arguments does mean something, it means it is an outlier position. The fact that Thomas covers the 11th Circuit does mean nothing.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  665. My point was that Justice Thomas covers the 11th Circuit, and I’m sure those appellate will take that into consideration.

    What is the empirical evidence that decision-making by district and appellate judges is influenced by the opinions of the Supreme Court Justices that oversee their Circuit?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  666. My point was that Justice Thomas covers the 11th Circuit, and I’m sure those appellate will take that into consideration.

    That’s mostly pro forma. Unless he’s sure that Sotomayor will agree with him, he’ll refer it to the full court.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  667. Vance has been married to a former law school classmate, Usha Chilukuri, since 2014.

    That he managed to capture a babe like Usha says that he’s not completely crazy.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  668. @680, it’s intriguing who might show up in the cabinet, especially for Sec of State and Sec of Defense. I figure Burgum and Rubio are positioned for roles….and both need national exposure to add to their resumes. Still, will Ramaswamy get a spot or will he try his wares in Ohio. I figure Stefanik and Noem have earned spots out of loyalty if something works. Does Michael Flynn get a reboot? Does DeSantis get tapped later in the term for something as his time as governor burns down? Does Haley get a nod? I kind of think “no” but who knows. I think his cabinet and advisers will give some indication as to how bold Trump intends to be….
    I suspect a shot at his head may change some of his perspective…

    AJ_Liberty (0b1bf3)

  669. In a statement this afternoon, Biden campaign chair Jen O’Malley Dillon responded to Vance’s selection. “Donald Trump picked J.D. Vance as his running mate because Vance will do what Mike Pence wouldn’t on January 6: bend over backwards to enable Trump and his extreme MAGA agenda, even if it means breaking the law and no matter the harm to the American people,” she said.

    https://thedispatch.com/newsletter/dispatch-politics/trump-picks-j-d-vance-for-vp/

    There is no evidence of this, other than a projection of the shadow they throw over Trump, and it continues the type of calumny that may lead some individuals to consider direct action. It certainly does not show any dialing-back of strident rhetoric.

    Biden will continue to base his campaign on othering his opponents, painting himself as our savior from a ruthless and brutal dictatorship. And some will believe that.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  670. That he managed to capture a babe like Usha says that he’s not completely crazy.

    I’ve known JD for 15 years and I still believe he’s playing the part of MAGA and doesn’t believe in the crazy agenda, every time we’ve spoken he seems level headed. When I now see him on TV it doesn’t reflect my experience.

    As I’ve said before, I don’t know if that’s worse. He created a whole persona that didn’t exist for his book, so playing a pro-Trumper now after calling him worse things than Biden has ever said, he’s just a chameleon.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  671. On a different vein, I’ll be filming my scene for a movie that definitely isn’t Superman: Legacy on Thursday. I will be a driver in a car as the camera pans by for 1 second. Show up at noon, film between 4 and 6.

    My car dealer called me and asked if I could bring my cars in for a movie company to look at. If you see either a BMW i8 or a Chevelle 454, it’s me, or some dude they cast to drive my car because I’m an uggo old man.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  672. On a different different vein. I endorse this.

    “I go back and forth between thinking Trump is a cynical asshole like Nixon who wouldn’t be that bad (and might even prove useful) or that he’s America’s Hitler, how’s that for discouraging?”

    “I think that I’m going to vote third party because I can’t stomach Trump, I think that he’s noxious and is leading the white working class to a very dark place.”

    “Trump makes people I care about afraid. Immigrants, Muslims, etc. Because of this I find him reprehensible. God wants better of us.”

    “In 4 years, I hope people remember that it was those of us who empathized with Trump’s voters who fought him the most aggressively.”

    “I mean, one of the things that’s really driving attraction to Donald Trump is not any special quality of Donald Trump himself, but of the fact that folks feel very resentful at the media establishment, the political establishment, the financial establishment and so forth. And so, one of the things that I really started to recognize as a teenager is that folks are very cynical, pessimistic and, because of it, sort of alienated from the broader American community… I didn’t quite expect it would take the form that it’s taken, but I’m not surprised.”

    Smart guy

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  673. BMW i8 or a Chevelle 454

    One sounds like compensation for the other.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  674. Trump is leading among Hispanics.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  675. > There is no evidence of this, other than a projection of the shadow they throw over Trump

    I posted above a link to an interview with Vance where he *explicitly says that he would have done that in 2020*. On what basis does any reasonable person conclude that he wouldn’t do the same thing in 2028?

    aphrael (1797ab)

  676. If democrats really believe trump is hitler and a threat to democracy and must be stopped at all cost why are they running joe biden?

    asset (60ddc3)

  677. “Trump is leading among Hispanics.”

    Team Biden just doesn’t get what’s happening. Their guys looks too old. There is nothing that he can do short of swimming the Potomac to change that. He said goofy things for all his career. Now his goofy things make him seem senile. They will lose…it’s just a matter of by how much. When David Axelrod can go on TV and say it, perhaps the Biden defenders should be more realistic. Maybe there’s some Hail Mary, but I sense that all of the reps and talking heads that our pressuring to keep Biden should have a day of reckoning.

    Mix in cost of living, immigration, and wars and Biden looks impotent while Trump is pumping his fist after getting shot at. Game over. Try another horse….

    AJ_Liberty (0b1bf3)

  678. The best play is to fund the races for senators in the swing states. They are up in 7 out of 8, with only Ted Cruz hanging on.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  679. I don’t see how Kamala Harris is going to be any better; she has no accomplishments except for a few things she mishandled. Sure, there are some polls, but those are honeymoon polls. Eventually she will start talking.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  680. saw a short video that was zoomed on Vance and his wife. That woman has an intent look about her. Guessing not much has gotten past her, ever.

    She’ll get sniping disparaging remarks made about about her, but they won’t be to her face in a forum where she can turn the tables. She looks like the type of woman Rachel Maddow will talk trash about, but never challenge live

    steveg (62baea)

  681. Usha is the smart one, like over the top.

    Usha Vance has her undergraduate degree in history from Yale University, according to her LinkedIn profile. She also has a master’s degree in philosophy from the University of Cambridge.

    While at Yale Law School, she worked on the Yale Law Journal and participated in the school’s Supreme Court Advocacy Clinic, the Media Freedom & Information Access Clinic, the Iraqi Refugee Assistance Project and the Pro Bono Network, according to her LinkedIn.

    She also didn’t vote in the primary in Ohio.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  682. If Vance really believe trump is hitler and a threat to democracy and must be stopped at all cost why run with him?

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  683. One sounds like compensation for the other.

    I was 16 when I bought the Chevelle, it was rough after 14 years, it’s better than new today. I thought the i8 was cool when it came out, not really fast though, and they are CHEAP. I was actually looking at an Audi R8 when I saw this one. The scissor doors sold it for me, well that and $15k less. Sold all of my motorcycles to get it too. The Chevelle is more valuable, by quite a lot, and I love it.

    Got a Nissan Ariya EV the other day on a 2 year lease with free charging for $0 down $65/month. Just put it on my AMEX for the 2%. Insurance is 2X.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  684. Guessing not much has gotten past her, ever.

    The wife of Senator J.D. Vance of Ohio, Donald J. Trump’s newly announced running mate, certainly has the credentials. A corporate litigator at a prestigious San Francisco law firm, Ms. Vance has clerked for Supreme Court Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. and Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh when he was an appeals court judge, and earned degrees from Yale and Cambridge.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/15/style/usha-vance-jd-vance.html

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  685. She looks like the type of woman Rachel Maddow will talk trash about, but never challenge live

    And whoever does it first will be The Example.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  686. If Vance really believe trump is hitler and a threat to democracy and must be stopped at all cost why run with him?

    A question that answers itself.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  687. Those are things Vance said, now he says a different thing because it got a the most junior Senator with the least political experience the veep slot.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  688. Other junior senators have risen further and as fast.

    The way I heard him explain it is that he thought that Trump was a phony and was running a line of BS past the folks he came from. But he became convinced that Trump was sincere.

    Whether you accept that hinges on whether you thing it’s plausible, of course. Both in Trump’s sincerity and in whether Vance cares. You would think that the man who wrote Hillbilly Elegy cares. It would be a happy event if Trump is not a total fraud.

    I’ll point out that the last major politician who gave a damn about working classes in the Midwest was Dick Gephardt (D-Missouri) and Trump’s announced initiatives are pretty much what Gephardt wanted to do in the 90s to head off the great rush offshore.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  689. Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 7/15/2024 @ 9:00 pm

    Please to mention year of car Chevelle, color, and transmission manual whether automatic. Much appreciations.

    norcal (2fbc82)

  690. When David Axelrod can go on TV and say it, perhaps the Biden defenders should be more realistic. Maybe there’s some Hail Mary, but I sense that all of the reps and talking heads that our pressuring to keep Biden should have a day of reckoning.

    Axelrod is an Obama loyalist. From what I’ve read, Team Biden despises Team Obama, so Axelrod’s opinion may as well be coming from Marjorie Taylor Greene. Doubly so for his saying it in public. For Biden to take advice to step down seriously, I’m guessing it would have to come behind closed doors from someone like Pelosi or Schumer, ideally both.

    lurker (c23034)

  691. It’s a 70 RPO Z15 SS with the standard 454 with the TH400 3-speed, originally at least. The transmission was always a problem, and after you couldn’t get leaded gas, the engine never ran quite right no matter how much tweeking or different carbs I put on it.

    The engine died in 99, and I pulled the whole thing and had a Olds 455/auto sitting around for a Firebird project that never happened, put that in it since it’s really the same motor.

    I “accidently” blew a rod right through the block doing donuts on my neighbors runway two years ago and it sat until a few months ago when I finally got my ZZ502/6sp super-magnum connect and cruise kit in and installed, had a new dual 3″ straight exhaust built for it too. Now it sounds like an Huey landing when I pull out of my driveway, my neighbors thought my Indian was obnoxious, this is much better (worse).

    It’s painted Mazda Soul Red Crystal Metallic, with dual matte black stripes. I was going to go for classic Candy Apple, but it’s super expensive, and I actually like Mazda’s red for being just a bit deeper with less flake, and like a quarter of the price.

    Overall, I love it, the clutch still needs some adjustment, but when GM ships the kit, it’s just done, down to sparkplugs and the wiring harness all dressed. Like most things we thought were fast, it’s not, but it sounds glorious. The Ariya EV is probably faster, quicker, etc, but that’s just a transport pod. Heck, my wife’s Highlander is probably as fast. I want a new rear end too…so…

    The interior needs work it’s OK but the fabrics are getting pretty bad, and the glue for the headliner has given up the ghost so I just keep gorrilla gluing it up but it looks janky. That will be a winter project though.

    My wife suggested that maybe I should do some work to pay for all the toys, so I unretired and now actually travel again getting this product launched, lovely Seattle till a redeye tomorrow night.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  692. Message received by Cannon. She met my low expectations…

    Seems like Thomas is sending a message to Judge Cannon, as now she could use his dicta to dismiss the case.

    —Montagu, 10 days ago

    What Thomas wrote on the matter was not a “concurring opinion”. But Trump got his delay cemented, which means another “win” for The Fraud.

    Oh, and Trump’s choice for VP also met my low expectations.

    Paul Montagu (f032b2)

  693. @283 “It wasn’t a bullet that grazed his ear”

    Left wing fact checker confirms:

    Rumor that Shards of Glass, Not Bullet, Injured Trump in Assassination Attempt Is False

    The assertion that glass, not a bullet, caused the injury is undercut by the fact that photographs show no damage to the teleprompters allegedly hit to produce the broken glass, by a New York Times photograph capturing a bullet passing by Trump’s ear, and by the fact that Trump later stated, on Truth Social, that a bullet had, in fact, pierced his ear

    Trump’s description of his wound matches photographs of his ear after he was hit, prior to being removed from stage. The two circles below, added by Snopes, highlight two areas that appear to show torn skin

    Because there is photographic evidence of a bullet striking Trump, and of the wound created by that bullet, early and imprecisely sourced claims that Trump’s injuries stemmed from broken glass are False.

    lloyd (0a2f79)

  694. In a statement this afternoon, Biden campaign chair Jen O’Malley Dillon responded to Vance’s selection. “Donald Trump picked J.D. Vance as his running mate because Vance will do what Mike Pence wouldn’t on January 6: bend over backwards to enable Trump and his extreme MAGA agenda, even if it means breaking the law and no matter the harm to the American people,” she said.

    There is no evidence of this, other than a projection of the shadow they throw over Trump……..
    ………..
    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/15/2024 @ 5:48 pm

    JD Vance on what he would have done if he was VP instead of Mike Pence:

    “Had you been vice president on January 6th,” (George Stephanopoulos) asked, “would you have certified the election results?”

    This is what Trump insisted Vice President Mike Pence not do on that day, asking Pence to instead reject electoral votes submitted by states that preferred Biden. Eventually, Vance said that’s what he would have done.

    “If I had been vice president, I would have told the states, like Pennsylvania, Georgia and so many others, that we needed to have multiple slates of electors, and I think the U.S. Congress should have fought over it from there,” Vance said. “That is the legitimate way to deal with an election that a lot of folks, including me, think had a lot of problems in 2020.”
    ……….
    ………Pennsylvania expanded voting access to allow more mail-in ballots before 2020, yes. But it did so in 2019, before the pandemic, with legislation passed by the Republican-majority legislature. Republicans tried to challenge those changes, arguing that they violated the state constitution, and a lower court in early 2022 ruled that the changes did violate the state constitution. But that ruling was overturned by the state Supreme Court.
    ………
    ………Vance argues: Because the rules were changed (over a year before the election), those voters (most of whom would probably have otherwise gone to vote against Trump in person) should have their opinions disregarded. ……..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  695. Trump was sincere.

    LOL! 🤣🤣🤣🤣

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  696. Trump was sincere.

    So, your argument is that Vance is conning Trump?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  697. I fully expect Kamala Harris to refuse to certify Trump’s win, on the basis of the 14th Amendment. The Democrats tried to write such a disqualification into the Electoral Count Act, so it is hardly beneath them to bring it up.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  698. Trump was sincere.

    So, your argument is that Vance is conning Trump?

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/16/2024 @ 9:24 am

    No, I am questioning whether Trump has ever been sincere.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  699. Sen. Bob Menendez (D-N.J.) found guilty in federal bribery and corruption trial in Manhattan

    NEW YORK — Sen. Bob Menendez was convicted Tuesday of taking bribes from three businessmen who showered him and his wife with cash, gold bars and a Mercedes-Benz, an extravagant bounty for his help securing deals with foreign officials and trying to derail several criminal investigations in New Jersey.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  700. Menendez could serve out the rest of his term even after his conviction, though his colleagues could vote to expel him if he does not resign. If Menendez loses his seat, Gov. Phil Murphy (D) would appoint an interim senator to serve into January.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  701. As for the ongoing discussion about whether Biden’s attacks on Trump as a danger led to the shooting: It doesn’t matter. What matters is that the history of J6 is so utterly ingrained that no minds will be changed by repeating it over and over.

    People have made up their minds about Donald Trump and J6. They may find him beyond the pale as a result. They may think he was justified. They may think it’s immaterial to 2024. These positions are long considered and unlikely to change.

    What some have not made up their minds about is how these two candidates will affect them, and the nation, over the next four years. It is here that Biden can have some impact. People are still persuadable here.

    Biden believes that his stewardship of the post-Covid economy has been magnificent. That opposition to Russian aggression is critical. That maintaining trade relations with China is necessary. Let him run on these. Trump certainly will run on the opposite.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  702. “If Menendez loses his seat, Gov. Phil Murphy (D) would appoint an interim senator to serve into January.”

    The only reason Democrats were on board with the indictment.

    lloyd (eb9bf1)

  703. I fully expect Kamala Harris to refuse to certify Trump’s win, on the basis of the 14th Amendment. The Democrats tried to write such a disqualification into the Electoral Count Act, so it is hardly beneath them to bring it up.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/16/2024 @ 9:25 am

    I’ll take that bet; that really assumes facts not in evidence. The revisions to the Electoral Count Act clearly define both the roles of Congress and the Vice President:

    The law clarifies that the vice president’s role in the counting of the electoral votes is “solely ministerial,” with no power to “determine, accept, reject, or otherwise adjudicate or resolve disputes over the proper list of electors, the validity of electors, or the votes of electors.”

    Any objection made by senators or representatives during the counting of the electoral votes must be made in writing and signed by at least one-fifth of the senators and one-fifth of the members of the House of Representatives. Previously, an objection required the signatures of only one member of each chamber.

    The law also limits the grounds for an objection to one of the following:

    The electors of a state were not lawfully certified

    An elector’s vote was not “regularly given”

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  704. Reformatted:

    I fully expect Kamala Harris to refuse to certify Trump’s win, on the basis of the 14th Amendment. The Democrats tried to write such a disqualification into the Electoral Count Act, so it is hardly beneath them to bring it up.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/16/2024 @ 9:25 am

    I’ll take that bet; that really assumes facts not in evidence. The revisions to the Electoral Count Act clearly define both the roles of Congress and the Vice President:

    The law clarifies that the vice president’s role in the counting of the electoral votes is “solely ministerial,” with no power to “determine, accept, reject, or otherwise adjudicate or resolve disputes over the proper list of electors, the validity of electors, or the votes of electors.”

    Any objection made by senators or representatives during the counting of the electoral votes must be made in writing and signed by at least one-fifth of the senators and one-fifth of the members of the House of Representatives. Previously, an objection required the signatures of only one member of each chamber.

    The law also limits the grounds for an objection to one of the following:

    The electors of a state were not lawfully certified

    An elector’s vote was not “regularly given”

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  705. The leak of Trump’s call with RFK Jr was interesting.

    Trump specifically mentioned concerns about combo vaccines for babies. That is something RFK Jr cares about but Trump typically avoids (and maybe he will continue to avoid). But it also suggests a political ability — understanding what matters to other politicians — that Trump hasn’t shown much before.

    Every pediatrician I know refuses to vaccinate their babies with the combo vaccines and/or on time. They wait until their babies are older and have stronger immune systems.

    Society needs vaccines, and mass vaccines may be the answer in many parts of the workd. But America has the ability to offer titer testing for those who worry about vaccines.

    DRJ (e89c91)

  706. Feel free to ignore my random thoughts about vaccines. My point was that Trump may end up being better at political bargains if he wins a second term.

    DRJ (e89c91)

  707. HEH…
    https://babylonbee.com/news/biden-condemns-menendez-for-taking-bribes-in-gold-rather-than-fungible-assets-laundered-by-20-different-shell-companies

    Biden Condemns Menendez For Taking Bribes In Gold Rather Than Fungible Assets Laundered By 20 Different Shell Companies

    whembly (477db6)

  708. Of course, Trump knew how to manipulate Zelensky so maybe this is a smarter version but nothing new.

    DRJ (3105d8)

  709. @723

    Every pediatrician I know refuses to vaccinate their babies with the combo vaccines and/or on time. They wait until their babies are older and have stronger immune systems.

    DRJ (e89c91) — 7/16/2024 @ 11:33 am

    \
    I work in healthcare IT, so I interact with broad spectrum of people at my institution.

    That is my experience from just about every MD/RNs (not just peds).

    They will eventually inoculate their kids… but, most are waiting till right before they go to school.

    whembly (477db6)

  710. Watched the video Klink linked @676, and it is direct, brutally honest and excellent. The media, undeterred by their many failed narratives lately, are pushing back hard on the DEI complaints directed at the USSS. But, facts don’t lie. A 5’2” person, male or female, cannot shield a 6’3” target. Physics doesn’t care about DEI. An agent that lacks training, male or female, and cannot holster a gun and who takes cover, is not up for that job. I salute all those agents, who agreed to do a job that requires them to take a bullet for someone else. The flak they are getting is unfair to them personally, and needs to be directed at plainly incompetent brass. Whoever came up with the security plan for that site is highly unlikely to have gotten that position through merit. Again, watch the video.

    The media, who are taking bullets for Mayorkas and Cheatle (chosen by Dr. Jill, according to one report), are simply lying. Again.

    DEI is going to get people killed. Everyone needs to understand that DEI advocates don’t care. They are courageously willing to let others take bullets for their virtue signaling.

    lloyd (bb02b6)

  711. > She’s not following precedent.

    She’s saying that, contrary to common assumption, there was no precedent Nixon did not challenge the appointment of Jaworski.

    And really what’s she’s saying is that the Attorney General cannot create an “independent” special counsel under current law.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  712. I wouldn’t surprised to see RFKJr. to be named HHS Secretary.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  713. Prediction: Before this year is out, Mr Crooks will be a hero to the Left and folks will be wearing his picture on t-shirts.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  714. Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 7/16/2024 @ 12:42 am

    Thanks for the breakdown, Klink. A guy in my neighborhood has a ’68 Chevelle. It’s also red with black stripes. A pedestrian 350, however.

    norcal (8b5ab3)

  715. The revisions to the Electoral Count Act clearly define both the roles of Congress and the Vice President:

    You are looking at the Conference compromise. The bill as it passed the House allowed members to challenge votes under the 14th Amendment:

    Under section 10 (counting electoral votes in Congress), c.2 (Grounds for objection)

    Items C and D read:

    (C) One or more of the State’s electors are constitutionally ineligible for the office of elector under article II, section I, clause 2 or section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution of the United States, except if a State has replaced the ineligible elector with an eligible elector pursuant to the authority described in section 4 of this title prior to the casting of electoral votes by its electors, then it shall not be in order to cite the initial appointment of the ineligible elector as grounds for raising an objection under this subparagraph.

    “(D) One or more of the State’s electoral votes were cast for a candidate who is ineligible for the office of President or Vice President pursuant to—

    “(i) article I, section 3, clause 7 of the Constitution of the United States;

    “(ii) article II, section 1, clause 5 of the Constitution of the United States;

    “(iii) section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States; or

    “(iv) section 1 of the Twenty-second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  716. So, facts now in evidence. This is what Pelosi and her Democrats wanted. The Senate did not agree, but just watch this come up anyway.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  717. Finger pointing II:

    Local police who were assigned by the Secret Service to help spot threats in the crowd at Donald Trump’s rally Saturday were inside the building where a gunman had positioned himself on the roof to shoot at the former president, according to a Secret Service official briefed on the incident.
    ……….
    From inside the Agr International building, they spotted a man acting furtively, walking back and forth around the building with some gear, and radioed a Secret Service command post to alert them, the official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity because of the ongoing investigation.
    ………..
    The account from a Secret Service official also underscores emerging tensions between that agency and local authorities over who is to blame for the fact that the gunman was able to access a clear view of the event. The Secret Service was responsible for the overall security plan, but the agency has said it relied on local law enforcement in areas outside the security perimeter. The Agr building was not inside the perimeter, which required members of the public to pass through a metal detector before entering.
    ……….
    The Beaver Countian, a local news outlet, reported Monday that counter-snipers were inside the building beyond the security perimeter for the event. The outlet reported that a Beaver County police officer warned a command center that he had seen a man with a range finder — a device the helps estimate distances — before gunfire erupted.
    ………..
    The Secret Service’s advance security plan for addressing one of the main risks at the event — someone shooting from higher ground from outside the perimeter of the rally — was to have two teams of Secret Service counter-snipers stationed in front of the crowd, on the roofs of two barns behind Trump’s stage. The local counter-snipers stationed inside the Agr building were to provide “overcover” and surveil the crowd from the back and outside the perimeter.

    Secret Service Director Kimberly Cheatle said in a television interview aired Tuesday morning that part of the reason the agency did not require a police officer to stand atop the roof of the Agr building was its slope. “That building in particular has a sloped roof at its highest point, and so there’s a safety factor that would be considered there that we wouldn’t want to put somebody up on a sloped roof,” she said. “So, you know, the decision was made to secure the building from inside.”

    The roofs of the barns where sniper teams were located are more steeply sloped than the roof of the Agr building, a Post analysis of visuals from the event found.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  718. You are looking at the Conference compromise. The bill as it passed the House allowed members to challenge votes under the 14th Amendment:

    Under section 10 (counting electoral votes in Congress), c.2 (Grounds for objection)

    ……….
    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/16/2024 @ 1:56 pm

    It’s irrelevant what is in either the House (or Senate) version of a bill. What provides legal authority is what’s in the law as enacted.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  719. My point was that Trump may end up being better at political bargains if he wins a second term.

    My concern is that while caution on vaccines is often warranted, the opposite is true in response to a pandemic. Those vaccines, if available even a month earlier, would have saved tens of thousands of deaths that resulted from Thanksgiving and Christmas gatherings at the end 0of 2020.

    Also, Kamala Harris’s political scare tactics over earlier release of vaccines killed a hundred thousand people. If she runs, imagine the personal ads.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  720. Elon Musk on PepsiCo level security

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GSokCrxacAMcv-2?format=jpg&name=small

    steveg (b6b312)

  721. People can debate how far Trump would have gotten if Mike Pence had caved on January 6th. For me, the mere attempt by Trump to overturn the election is utterly disqualifying. It galls me that more people can’t see how heinous and despotic that was.

    I suspect that if the other party had pulled a January 6th, these same pooh-poohers would be screaming nonstop.

    norcal (8b5ab3)

  722. It’s irrelevant what is in either the House (or Senate) version of a bill. What provides legal authority is what’s in the law as enacted.

    It is strong evidence of what the Democrat Party believes should be the objection criteria and that belief WILL be acted on by some. As many as acted in 2020? Maybe not. More than those who objected in 2000, 2004 or 2016? Certainly. By enough from each House? Maybe. By Harris? She is not generally known for following the letter of the law.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  723. It galls me that more people can’t see how heinous and despotic that was.

    Is that enough of a reason to elect someone who is unable to lead, whose VP is a leftist troll, and whose party contains people who hate capitalism and private property?

    Or, does one rely on the structure of government, 250 years of inertia, and the fact that his last attempt was comical in its hopelessness to contain him in another term. while being more favorable of the party’s platform?

    This is a truly awful choice. But to say that it is so one-sided as to negate the need to think is a truly terrible mind-set.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  724. I suspect that if the other party had pulled a January 6th, these same pooh-poohers would be screaming nonstop.

    Many of the “pooh-poohers” (and you slander them, btw) wanted Trump impeached and convicted. They wanted Trump declared ineligible. They wanted someone (anyone) else to get the GOP nomination.

    They got none of that. Now, they can continue screaming, as some do, or they can accept that they are not going to get what they want and look at the situation in hand. Relitigating impeachment isn’t very useful.

    Learn to accept what you cannot change and then deal with the world that is. Cutting off your nose to spite your face may seem like a reasonable response, but it isn’t.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  725. Musk has taken over the Trump team nickname game, calling Director Cheatle “Director Cheetos” because she used to be head of PepsiCo’s Global Security-North America and I guess they probably do have warehouses of Cheetos to secure. I think its clever, funny and a little mean and reminds me of Jr Hi. Trump should let Musk do the nicknaming.

    Anyone notice that Trump v2 toned it down this time around? Seems more verbally disciplined.
    I think Trump v2 could be his best effort so far if he can get good people onboard and keep them.

    steveg (b6b312)

  726. Further, the cases against Trump were delayed two years by an administration that wanted to run against Trump, so that they could use the same arguments people are using. Maybe there’s a case for not electing folks who would do that.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  727. Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/16/2024 @ 2:12 pm

    Policy is a second-order concern. Respect for election results is a first-order concern.

    Look, countries can recover from lefty policies. Britain was called the sick man of Europe in the 70s. Sweden and New Zealand used to be more socialist than they are now. Through elections (and election results that were respected) those countries course-corrected.

    Undermining faith in elections, and elevating personal loyalty over principles, is more dangerous to the Republic than lefty policies.

    norcal (8b5ab3)

  728. Trump announced today he is moving ALL of SpaceX to Texas from El Segundo, and ALL of X to Texas from San Francisco.

    He blamed the radical state legislature, city of San Francisco and Gavin Newsom.

    https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2024-07-16/musk-moving-spacex-headquarters-to-texas-x

    Saturday, he endorsed Donald Trump.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  729. *Trump Elon Musk

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  730. Look, countries can recover from lefty policies.

    How long before Wickard and its progeny are overturned? How long before the income tax ends? How long before Obamacare is repealed?

    You say this, but it’s just not true. They struggle on with the wounds.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  731. Undermining faith in elections, and elevating personal loyalty over principles, is more dangerous to the Republic than lefty policies.

    Then why support someone who delayed the insurrection case against Trump. Didn’t really even file it, actually. So that they could make all these arguments while they slid their putrid policies past the noses of the electorate.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  732. Mike Pence turned to Ms. Harris and said “Stop playing political games with peoples lives” but I don’t think she understood.

    steveg (b6b312)

  733. If Trump had been convicted of insurrection in 2022, he probably would not be the nominee today and we would not have this sh1tty, no-good election. Biden and Garland prevented that SO THAT THEY COULD HAVE TRUMP AS THE NOMINEE.

    Why should I reward this manipulation?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  734. The June 16th NYT carried a full-page interview of Vance, by Ross Douthat.

    For me, this is the most significant point:

    Douthat: When did you decide you actually like Donald Trump?

    Vance: I first met Trump in 2021. One of the stories he told me was about how some of our generals were changing the timings of troop redeployments in the Middle East so they could tell him troop levels were coming down when they were just changing the way levels jump up and down in the short term.

    1. Did that actually happen?
    2. Did Vance believe one of the greatest liars ever in American politics — without checking?
    3. If it happened, would I think more of Vance if he is lying about believing Trump? Yes and no. It is good to see him living more in the real world, but we don’t need more lies in our politics

    (Note, by the way, that Vance doesn’t claim the story was true, just that it made him like Trump.)

    Jim Miller (6dfa34)

  735. @735 “The Secret Service was responsible for the overall security plan, but …”

    No buts. Responsibility is with the USSS. It ends there.

    As Klink’s link @676 points out, the highest point was the water tower and it’s inconceivable why no one was there.

    lloyd (eb9bf1)

  736. Thanks for the breakdown, Klink. A guy in my neighborhood has a ’68 Chevelle. It’s also red with black stripes. A pedestrian 350, however.

    Nothing wrong with a Chevy small block. Good power and great reliability are better in most cases, I was leaning that way initially with that kit from GM. I have the advantage of this thing being the 4th road toy for 40 years, well, either I wasn’t around or it was dead for some of that too, so motorcycles became the toy, then I went the other way with the BMW. Parked next to each other the dichotomy is kind of hilarious.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  737. It is strong evidence of what the Democrat Party believes should be the objection criteria and that belief WILL be acted on by some. As many as acted in 2020? Maybe not. More than those who objected in 2000, 2004 or 2016? Certainly. By enough from each House? Maybe. By Harris? She is not generally known for following the letter of the law.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/16/2024 @ 2:07 pm

    No it’s not. Since any formal objections will require 20 percent of the House and Senate membership (87 House members and 20 Senators) to be heard, I doubt there will be any to Trump’s certification. It will be far more routine than 2000, 2004 or 2016. See pages 1,946 for the duties of the VP and 1,947-9 for the limitations on objections.

    Trump non-certification wishcasting.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  738. Biden and Garland prevented that SO THAT THEY COULD HAVE TRUMP AS THE NOMINEE.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/16/2024 @ 2:31 pm

    Was it a conspiracy, or was it just typical government bureaucracy, red tape, and slowness?

    I worked for the government, and the answer is almost always the latter.

    On top of that, the strategy of Trump’s legal team seems to be delay, delay, and delay.

    norcal (8b5ab3)

  739. The left is hyperventilating over a video clip wherein JD Vance says “Alex Jones is a better source of information than Rachel Maddow.”
    “OMG this means VP nominee Vance believes Sandy Hook was a hoax!!”
    No. It means he called Rachael Maddow versions of the news, hackery that is on par with one of the worst.
    I realize its hard to take if they watch her every night, hanging on every word as if she was the Lord on Mt Sinai speaking the 10 Commandments from within a wall of fire.

    steveg (b6b312)

  740. @728 Physics might not care ;but politics does. This is how affirmative action came about. After black people would burn down cities newark one week detroit the next week. If we give black people jobs in the buildings maybe they wont burn them down!

    asset (900da0)

  741. Trump non-certification wishcasting.

    Always coloring between the lines and expecting others to do so, too.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  742. Anybody else wonder whether Trump feels maybe a twinge of remorse for having had innocent bystanders as a shooting backstop on the stage?

    nk (fd82f3)

  743. That’s more absurd than usual, nk. Look at any rally and you will see all candidates want people on camera, particularly people others can identify with.

    Or is this part of the “Trump knew the shooter was there” stuff you can see on X?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  744. I had a Chevy small block, with a Chevy 5 speed put into my ’70 Land Cruiser
    The original motor got about 11 mpg, now I get maybe 13 mpg and can merge onto the US-101 immediately vs. the previous “sometime today please”.
    Not really into cars, trucks beyond their utility, but respect those that are.
    One of my clients collects older Ferrari’s, uses a couple as daily drivers. Another has a voluptuous 1930’s Delahaye with all those curvy lines, drives it around town a bit now and then

    steveg (b6b312)

  745. President Biden is finalizing plans to endorse major changes to the Supreme Court in the coming weeks, including proposals for legislation to establish term limits for the justices and an enforceable ethics code, according to two people briefed on the plans.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/07/16/biden-supreme-court-reforms/

    Back in the 60s and 70s, they were all “If the Courts says it, it’s the Law.” Now it seems, the Court needs fixing so that it says other stuff.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  746. Learn to accept what you cannot change and then deal with the world that is. Cutting off your nose to spite your face may seem like a reasonable response, but it isn’t.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/16/2024 @ 2:16 pm

    LOL! The pot calling the kettle black.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  747. President Biden is finalizing plans to endorse major changes to the Supreme Court in the coming weeks, including proposals for legislation to establish term limits for the justices and an enforceable ethics code, according to two people briefed on the plans.

    Term limits would require a constitutional amendment. Good luck with that. This is performance art.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  748. steveg (b6b312) — 7/16/2024 @ 3:09 pm

    Santa Barbara is a great place to drive a classic car. It just fits, because Santa Barbara is classy itself, and seems frozen in time.

    Good point about merging. A fast car, in the right hands, is a safer car, because it can get you where you need to be more quickly.

    I have a 2020 Mustang GT. Velocity Blue. 460 HP. 10-speed transmission. I posted a story here about buying it in Miami and driving it back to Reno through that once-in-a-century ice storm in Texas. I still can’t believe I made it through that.

    norcal (8b5ab3)

  749. Look at any rally and you will see all candidates want people on camera, particularly people others can identify with.

    I know that. Was it worth the life of Corey Comperatore?

    Or is this part of the “Trump knew the shooter was there” stuff you can see on X?

    No. Just wondering anybody else besides Trump matters in this story?

    nk (0a3d80)

  750. Way back from the 80’s till last year, the GOP was fixated on getting rid of activist judges for textualists, now they want activist judges who interpret the hidden meaning between the plain words.

    Today’s GOP isn’t conservative in any way, they are more progressive and interventionist than the democrats, more isolationist, with a believe that mercantilism and monarchy/dictatorial rule is the way to run a country. Less common ground with the global democracies and more with the Victor Orbans and Vladimir Putins of the world. If you can’t see shades of the Iranian Revolution that’s a problem. Trying to build a jingoistic theocracy in America is a real threat, Jan 6 might be a minor blip on the Trump rise to power, just because the future might be worse.

    That’s what worries me.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  751. Trump non-certification wishcasting.

    Always coloring between the lines and expecting others to do so, too.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/16/2024 @ 3:05 pm

    Based on the legal requirements I noted above, it’s just not going to happen. Learn to accept what you cannot change and then deal with the world that is.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  752. I doubt that there were a lot of five-foot-two women burning buildings in Detroit and Newark because they could not meet the law enforcement height requirement.

    What is almost certain is that the first string of the Secret Service is assigned to the serving President and other current government officials, and exes and candidates get the second string. Which is as it should be.

    nk (0a3d80)

  753. Insulting our closest ally:

    ……….
    J.D. Vance, named Monday as the Republican vice presidential nominee, described Britain under the new Labour government as the world’s first “truly Islamist country” to have a nuclear weapon.
    ……….
    Speaking days before being adopted by Trump as his vice-presidential pick, Vance, a junior senator from Ohio, told the National Conservatism Conference: “I was talking with a friend recently and we were talking about [how] one of the big dangers in the world, of course, is nuclear proliferation, though the Biden administration doesn’t care about it.

    “And I was talking about what is the first truly Islamist country that will get a nuclear weapon, and we were like, maybe it’s Iran, maybe Pakistan already kind of counts, and then we sort of finally decided maybe it’s actually the UK, since Labour just took over,” Vance added.
    …………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  754. Today’s GOP isn’t conservative in any way, they are more progressive and interventionist than the democrats

    I agree that the GOP isn’t conservative in most ways, as they are change agents and conservatism and change don’t go together. They could be called radical, or reactionary, but I disagree about “progressive.” If anything, regressive, finding better solutions in the past.

    If you can’t see shades of the Iranian Revolution that’s a problem.

    Well, both parties would like to put some boundaries on who can run for office. The Democrats tried to toss him off the ballot for insurrection. While I think that he should have been tossed, I do see the problem with that as a precedent.

    The GOP has tried to keep “Communists” off the ballot before.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  755. Santa Barbara is a great place to drive a classic car. It just fits, because Santa Barbara is classy itself, and seems frozen in time.

    I loved the central coast, we used to spend Thanksgiving in Cambria.

    Santa Barbara is too expensive to live in though, way too many billionaires.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  756. I have remarked before on how much the current GOP economic platform mirrors what Dick Gephardt might have chosen in 1990 as a reaction to Reaganist free trade.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  757. Vance has already said the only thing he needed to say: “Sir … President Trump … I love the taste of your ass.” (The “Sir” was important.)

    nk (0a3d80)

  758. @772:

    Hyperbole, which Vance is going to have to dial back a bit. But there’s a bit of truth in the degree to which the UK Left seems infested with multicultural nonsense.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  759. What gets me is the almost complete contrast between Vance and Trump.

    Trump was born a billionaire and really hasn’t done much with all that money. He bought everything he has, including his wives, never served his country, and thinks the sun shines out of his ass.

    Vance was born a literal hillbilly, and a poor one at that, with a drunkard for a dad and a drug addict for a mother. In the last 20 years he has risen from that to serve in the Marines in Iraq, a OSU degree and J.D. from Yale, a venture capital firm and a US Senate seat. Blutarsky, eat your heart out.

    Vance married well; his wife’s resume is better than his (B.A. Yale, M.A. Cambridge, J.D. Yale, clerked DC Circuit for Kavanaugh and USSC for Roberts). Up until Monday she worked for a first rank SF law firm. She’s better looking than any of the Trump women.

    Vance actually seems to care about the people he left in the hills. Hard to say what Trump cares about, if anything other than Trump.

    Maybe Vance is just a grasping opportunist, although I cannot understand how such a man would keep that woman his wife. It’s not like she can’t have her pick.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  760. @760 A week ago they were cultists and fascists, now they’re “innocent bystanders.”

    But nk getting up to speed and acknowledging it was a shooting and not fireworks is a sure sign we’re unifying and starting to heal as a nation.

    lloyd (bb02b6)

  761. What is almost certain is that the first string of the Secret Service is assigned to the serving President and other current government officials, and exes and candidates get the second string. Which is as it should be.

    If this were Pro Basketball I think what Trump has now equivalent to NBA G League bench players. As it should be.
    The Secret Service has its hands full 365 and election years they have to grab a few people from crews here and there and cobble one together for the opposition candidate.
    Some of those people they had on him over the weekend were college washouts

    The planning/prep talent was lacking. The “roof had a ridge” excuse. It was a very low ridge. OK, so if the roof isn’t flat, we don’t know what to do?
    Most of the agents did well during the podium scrum. The short woman couldn’t protect Trump’s head, that is on the person who cobbled together the team. She did well in that she stuck her head in the vulnerable underarm area and guarded the body well.
    But the women looked awful down by the vehicle, to the point of being dangerous to themselves and others with their firearms. They needed remedial work on that drill. There were times in that chaos where I wondered if some of them were drafted from Currency investigations

    steveg (b6b312)

  762. Today’s GOP isn’t conservative in any way, they are more progressive and interventionist than the democrats, more isolationist, with a believe that mercantilism and monarchy/dictatorial rule is the way to run a country. Less common ground with the global democracies and more with the Victor Orbans and Vladimir Putins of the world. If you can’t see shades of the Iranian Revolution that’s a problem. Trying to build a jingoistic theocracy in America is a real threat, Jan 6 might be a minor blip on the Trump rise to power, just because the future might be worse.

    That’s what worries me.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 7/16/2024 @ 3:35 pm

    When you rewrite the term conservative to mean entrenching leftwing policies then yes I agree, they aren’t conservative. They are
    American.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  763. But nk getting up to speed and acknowledging it was a shooting and not fireworks is a sure sign we’re unifying and starting to heal as a nation.

    I don’t know about “getting up to speed”, but don’t expect me to be doing any jumps for Trump, to his bandwagon or to conclusions.

    nk (0a3d80)

  764. SARVER, Pa. — The heartbroken widow of Corey Comperatore, the hero firefighter shot dead by a sniper at a Donald Trump rally, wanted nothing to do with President Biden when he called after the tragedy, she told The Post.

    “I didn’t talk to Biden,” Helen Comperatore said from her Pennsylvania home Monday. “I didn’t want to talk to him. My husband was a devout Republican and he would not have wanted me to talk to him.”

    https://nypost.com/2024/07/15/us-news/corey-comperatores-widow-refused-biden-call-after-trump-rally-shooting/

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  765. @772:

    Hyperbole, which Vance is going to have to dial back a bit. But there’s a bit of truth in the degree to which the UK Left seems infested with multicultural nonsense.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/16/2024 @ 3:49 pm

    Given Vance’s pre-Senate history of criticizing Trump, he should be used to it. I’ll bet every one of Vance’s criticisms will appear in Democratic campaign ads.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  766. Vance’s criticisms will be a feature in the ads, but conversely it gives Vance a chance to make the case for why his view of Trump changed. The swing voters sitting on the fence that want a reason to change, or that are open to a reason to change are Vance’s audience.
    Trump likes to be the whole show, but it might benefit him to stand next to Vance and let Vance tell his epiphany story, Trump can nod his head sagely and say thank you.

    Does Vance still have the beard? I heard Father Trump told Junior to get rid of his beard, that Trump dislikes facial hair

    steveg (b6b312)

  767. What is the mission for this German drone?

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GSoz7GnWcAA–GM?format=jpg&name=small

    steveg (b6b312)

  768. Trump sounds like a different person, a changed man. Having a bullet narrowly miss your brain might do that.

    DRJ (3105d8)

  769. CNN Headline: Exclusive: Secret Service ramped up security after receiving intel of Iranian plot to assassinate Trump

    https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/16/politics/iran-plot-assassinate-trump-secret-service/index.html

    And still failed

    Was that “Team Ramp Up” ? My goodness. If they hadn’t “ramped up” would Crook gotten off a few more shots? I think Crook got off 3 shots as it was, and if he’d gone for center mass, he’d probably hit all three because Trump is a wide load

    Hanlon’s Razor applies here but I’d still ask for the Director’s, texts and emails

    steveg (b6b312)

  770. The USSS planning for the Trump rally was a complete shite show.

    There are a couple of reasons why their operating model is problematic. One of the issues with the Secret Service is that it’s small, 8,300 people. Roughly 20% are administrative; HR, IT, accounting, etc. Of the roughly 6,500 people left, about 60% are on the law enforcement side. That leaves roughly 2,600 for the protective detail, 1,300 are in the Uniformed Division; Counter-Sniper and Counter-Assault, the rest are close protection.

    With the protectees they have, Congress, White House staff, family members of those, ex-presidents, ex-senior staffers, foreign dignitaries, etc. That’s more than a 1,000 people for a 2,600 person protection team.

    If you look at the run up to this event, it was announced on July 3rd, and according to the property owner that was the first he heard about it being definite, but was asked by the state GOP a bit earlier. What was going on at the beginning of the month? NATO summit from Jul 9-Jul 11, that is/was a massive USSS undertaking. They seem to have delegated way too much to the locals in this case, were they resource constrained?

    I’ve always thought that when DHS was created, it was a perfect time to either pull the law enforcement duties or ,probably preferably, pull the protection details and realign under the DHS banner as that’s actually one of the things they do as well.

    With any protective detail, you need to have a fully trained and staffed bench to handle peak time/activity. So a presidential election year with a local NATO/G7 type of event during peak campaign season should be the level that they’re staffed too. I don’t think they are, they can’t surge internally, and the locals, especially small jurisdictions, don’t have the training to be delegated to compared to something like LAPD or NYPD, DHS should have a trained full-time uniformed reserve force that could flex into all the different roles DHS may need uniformed policing functions.

    You could get the National Guard called up, but they’re not full time, but if you just need bodies to stand around the perimeter and not let a 20 year old climb to a building, they could do that.

    Still, if they didn’t have enough people, throw the flag before it happens.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  771. Does Vance still have the beard? I heard Father Trump told Junior to get rid of his beard, that Trump dislikes facial hair

    Yes, he does. Apparently he converted Trump.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  772. Given Vance’s pre-Senate history of criticizing Trump, he should be used to it. I’ll bet every one of Vance’s criticisms will appear in Democratic campaign ads.

    Since they have nothing but attack-the-opponent, I don’t doubt it. The GOP will just show the border, the price of meat, the locked up shelves at Walmart, and the retreat from Afghanistan. But at least Biden will have good ads to distract and mislead.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  773. steveg (b6b312) — 7/16/2024 @ 3:38 pm

    That’s a beautiful Delahaye, Steve. I like the color!

    norcal (2a05c2)

  774. NOW, she endorsed.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  775. The democratic policy platform seems to be “Good God you can’t elect Trump because…” I actually agree with that platform, too bad Biden is the guy they have running, candidate to be named later probably does better.

    The GOP platform has all the planks removed, and inserted into Project 2025 that Trump has been actively saying isn’t his platform.

    So, yay policy. The other guy is too old/too corrupt to vote for. Vote for me because I’m old but not as corrupt, or I swear I’ll not be as corrupt as I’ve been before, and I’m not dribbling down my night shirt at 8:30PM.

    Oh the choices we have.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  776. Vance has already said the only thing he needed to say: “Sir … President Trump … I love the taste of your ass.” (The “Sir” was important.)

    nk (0a3d80) — 7/16/2024 @ 3:48 pm

    He’s worse than Pence. I only really recall his anti-trump comments, so he’s just another version of Ted Cruz in my book. Honestly it shows what a putz Trump is. Picking Haley at least would have broadened his support a little and given some executive experience. Vance is kinda light.

    If Trump had been convicted of insurrection in 2022, he probably would not be the nominee today and we would not have this sh1tty, no-good election. Biden and Garland prevented that SO THAT THEY COULD HAVE TRUMP AS THE NOMINEE.

    Why should I reward this manipulation?

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/16/2024 @ 2:31 pm

    This is a good point. The democrats have had a ton of opportunity to bring Trump to justice and they didn’t bother. Now they say this is the most urgent reason to reject Trump, but they definitely wanted Trump to be the nominee (and they did in 2016 as well). They keep taking this risk of damage to the country to prevent the GOP from being functional.

    Similarly, democrats had an opportunity to come to Jesus. They didn’t have to have sympathy for Trump after a bullet grazed him. but they should have acknowledged that their tone is hysterical and leading to a lot of assassination attempts. It’s a particular problem on their side. It just is. So far I’ve seen stupid efforts to minimize the event, the harm to Trump, the shooter is not really the democrats’ fault. None of that is pertinent to the need for democrats to be the adult in the room, if they want me to choose them over Trump.

    I don’t want Biden to brag he wanted to physically beat up Trump, or that Trump is a threat. I wanted Biden to be the moderate he was sold as.

    The main reason to vote for Biden is that I do want the GOP to collapse as soon as possible so something more normal can have a chance of replacing it (why do I think that would happen? Because I am stupid.).

    Dustin (36e56d)

  777. That Delahaye is sick. If I can get the interior of the Chevelle done, I saw one of those go for big bucks at Barret Jackson, and I can still get $55k for the i8, maybe next spring I’ll look at a classic exotic…wait, I still can’t afford a valve job. One of my friends bought a California T, not a classic, and new brakes cost, and an exhaust fix cost him $12k. Plus I might not be 6’4″ any more, but 6’2.5″ and 230 is way too big. A Miata interior is bigger than any of the old mid-engined cars I’d want, and a 456M costs way too much.

    Porsche has been having great resale, so a new GTS might be an option, but you have to already have an allocation by being a current owner to qualify. I can’t to afford to buy a Macan to qualify for a Cayman to qualify for a base 911 to qualify for a GTS, I’ll be dead before I get on that list.

    Chevelle and weird hybrid it is.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  778. That isn’t my clients Delahaye. His is a different color, but I have an NDA still in play, so no photos.

    steveg (b6b312)

  779. I wanted Biden to be the moderate he was sold as.

    Which he abandoned by being a left-wing dictator on day one, unilaterally cancelling the otherwise-approved Keystone XL pipeline.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  780. Both Haley and DeSantis spoke and I have to say that DeSantis was brown-nosing pretty bad. Haley actually mentioned she had disagreements and only kissed near the ring.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  781. I loved the central coast, we used to spend Thanksgiving in Cambria.

    Santa Barbara is too expensive to live in though, way too many billionaires.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 7/16/2024 @ 3:46 pm

    I spent a night in Cambria last year. What a charming little town. Santa Barbara is expensive. As messed up as California is, I would live in Santa Barbara if I could afford it.

    norcal (2a05c2)

  782. @765

    President Biden is finalizing plans to endorse major changes to the Supreme Court in the coming weeks, including proposals for legislation to establish term limits for the justices and an enforceable ethics code, according to two people briefed on the plans.

    Term limits would require a constitutional amendment. Good luck with that. This is performance art.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/16/2024 @ 3:16 pm

    Yup…correct.

    I suspect its the Biden camp trying to get the progressive wing to stay on the Biden train.

    whembly (477db6)

  783. @788

    Trump sounds like a different person, a changed man. Having a bullet narrowly miss your brain might do that.

    DRJ (3105d8) — 7/16/2024 @ 5:54 pm

    Seems so. I was skeptical when I heard that and had to watch it myself.

    Not sure how long it’d last (doubtful), but a “unifying Trump” would be formidable in this election.

    whembly (477db6)

  784. Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 7/16/2024 @ 6:48 pm

    Your tastes run a little too rich for my blood.

    I’ll stick with my Mustang, my 2018 Ruby Red Ford F150 Extended Cab 4X4 (with a 36-gallon tank!), and my 1998 black Lexus SC400 (two-door coupe with a 4.0 Liter V8 putting out 290 HP–not bad for that time). Originally I was going to wait for the Lexus to die in order to justify buying a brand new Mustang, but it just wouldn’t die, so now it’s my beater.

    norcal (2a05c2)

  785. @795

    If Trump had been convicted of insurrection in 2022, he probably would not be the nominee today and we would not have this sh1tty, no-good election. Biden and Garland prevented that SO THAT THEY COULD HAVE TRUMP AS THE NOMINEE.

    Why should I reward this manipulation?

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/16/2024 @ 2:31 pm

    This is a good point. The democrats have had a ton of opportunity to bring Trump to justice and they didn’t bother. Now they say this is the most urgent reason to reject Trump, but they definitely wanted Trump to be the nominee (and they did in 2016 as well). They keep taking this risk of damage to the country to prevent the GOP from being functional.

    It’s a rehash strategy from 2015 thinking that HRC would have an easy layup win over Trump.

    Same mindset.

    …and they can lose that strategy again.

    I have my reasons to vote for Trump. But, to see the left lose their ever-loving minds that their strategy failed them again would be oh so sweet. I’d be schadenboner overdosed for the next 4 years.

    Similarly, democrats had an opportunity to come to Jesus. They didn’t have to have sympathy for Trump after a bullet grazed him. but they should have acknowledged that their tone is hysterical and leading to a lot of assassination attempts. It’s a particular problem on their side. It just is. So far I’ve seen stupid efforts to minimize the event, the harm to Trump, the shooter is not really the democrats’ fault. None of that is pertinent to the need for democrats to be the adult in the room, if they want me to choose them over Trump.

    I don’t want Biden to brag he wanted to physically beat up Trump, or that Trump is a threat. I wanted Biden to be the moderate he was sold as.

    His own party (and his administration for that matter) won’t allow him to moderate if he wanted to.

    Time to accept that the Bluedog/Reagan Democrats are extinct and that Democrats are the progressive/commies.

    Lets treat them as such.

    The main reason to vote for Biden is that I do want the GOP to collapse as soon as possible so something more normal can have a chance of replacing it (why do I think that would happen? Because I am stupid.).

    Dustin (36e56d) — 7/16/2024 @ 6:37 pm

    I think that wishful thinking.

    The populists are here to stay for quite a long time. But, to change the direction of the party. Efforts must be planned and executed long before the primary season.

    whembly (477db6)

  786. Remember my Chevelle I got in ’84, cheap. Plus I sold 2 Harley’s and a classic Indian collected over 25 years to get the i8. I can work on the Chevelle too, and that wouldn’t be the case for anything I’d want to trade them straight up for.

    I like the idea of a Porsche as a supercar that you can drive every day, but I have something more practical for that, and frankly any new Porsche is just too good and is boring, plus I’m never going on a track day again. I want something with emotion, and an older 355 would do it, but there’s not way I’d fit.

    Maybe something modern and ridicoulus like a Challenger Hellcat, those are pretty cheap and comfortable but also stupid, which makes them awesome, but is that better than a Chevelle that I already have? Or a silly convertible hybrid thing with a Mini 3 cylinder engine and scissor doors? Nope, two dumb fun things that are complete vs more projects seems better. That’s why I dumped the bikes, they just became work, and everyone else I rode with quit too so I was the last guy with nowhere to go.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  787. I guess there is no question now about Nikki Haley’s “strong endorsement” of Donald Trump.

    Also, Gov. Jim Justice of West Virginia didn’t get the memo about toning down the rhetoric:

    Mr. Justice warned the country would become “totally unhinged if Donald Trump is not elected in November.”

    Rip Murdock (bb60a6)

  788. Time to accept that the Bluedog/Reagan Democrats are extinct and that Democrats are the progressive/commies.

    Lets treat them as such.

    Indeed it’s really frustrating.

    The niche for a moderate, responsible party is so obvious: Ann Richards type of democrats who really do care about public safety and a performing government. Maybe that’s not exactly what everyone wants, but it is so much better than these two, for like 80% of the electorate.

    I’ve considered the GOP an obstacle to conservatism for a long time. Romney burned the bridge, even though I didn’t anticipate the Tea party movement would be taken over by the Trump family like this.

    Bottom line is that Biden really offers me no reason to support him. Not even respect for a peaceful transition of power. He went way beyond dogwhistling for violence, and he’s taken this moment, where he obviously could change the tone, and failed – partly because he’s always been nasty, and partly because he isn’t really leading his administration.

    Dustin (36e56d)

  789. I daresay the fact that Donald Trump has been nominated s third time to be President shows that a significant portion of the country has already become “unhinged.”

    Rip Murdock (bb60a6)

  790. The populists are here to stay for quite a long time.

    I don’t think so, at least not actively. Once they have their gotta-haves they’ll be back in front of the TV or bowling or whatever they did before the mill got shipped to China.

    Populism is the villagers with torches and pitchforks. It needs to happen every 20 years, 30 years. Helps to get rid of the bad blood. Once the bosses have their heads back out of their asses for a while, things go back to normal.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  791. Mr. Justice warned the country would become “totally unhinged if Donald Trump is not elected in November.”

    Rip Murdock (bb60a6) — 7/16/2024 @ 7:26 pm

    What he really means is Donald Trump will become totally unhinged if Donald Trump is not elected in November.

    It’s not like the 2020 election is the first time Trump claimed fraud.

    He claimed fraud way back in 2016 when he lost the Iowa Republican primary to Ted Cruz.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/world/trump-accuses-cruz-of-stealing-iowa-caucuses-through-fraud-idUSKCN0VC1Z9/

    It’s laughable.

    norcal (2a05c2)

  792. I daresay the fact that Donald Trump has been nominated s third time to be President shows that a significant portion of the country has already become “unhinged.”

    Yes, but which portion? This did not happen in a vacuum. Pretending it did is just whistling past the graveyard.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  793. Policy is a second-order concern. Respect for election results is a first-order concern.

    Look, countries can recover from lefty policies. Britain was called the sick man of Europe in the 70s. Sweden and New Zealand used to be more socialist than they are now. Through elections (and election results that were respected) those countries course-corrected.

    Undermining faith in elections, and elevating personal loyalty over principles, is more dangerous to the Republic than lefty policies.

    norcal (8b5ab3) — 7/16/2024 @ 2:18 pm

    +1. Biden has said and done plenty to condemn, but he hasn’t tried to end the Republic. Trump did. There’s no equivalence.

    lurker (c23034)

  794. Since everyone is talking cars I will too. I once owned a 1967 lamborghini 400 gt (12 cylinder engine was in front) Until the yard nazis made me get rid of them I had most of the cars the beach boys sang about. I have pictures ;but no ability to show them. 94 chevy caprice cop car with corvette lt 4 engine. 1967 impala ss 427 4-speed with 68 corvette tri=power. 64 plymouth fury 4 speed 413 with cross ram. 73 pontiac grand am 4 door sedan 455 was 400 with4 speed. (used it as a taxi!) 1966 mercury s-55 428 r-speed. 1966 pontiac 2+2 1978 mercury zepher with 351 windsor from racing head service.(blew a corvettes doors off with it!) 5 malibus including a 4 speed. 20+hells angels lined on either side of my 94 caprice and we all took off a mile down the road I went thru light on yellow they all had to stop on red! Then I grew up and the yard nazis made me sell them all. I still have the pictures.

    asset (4f80bd)

  795. I would have probably had some more classic cars if I didn’t do that whole thing that the government made my go around the world to shoot at various people for 15 years, I didn’t get to much collecting. Plus I really couldn’t afford it until I started at Deloitte and McKinsey at 35, and then I had family and such.

    I’ve had some nice company cars though, almost always BMW M’s, but a couple Cadillac V’s too. My favorite of those was a 2013 CTS-V wagon. Again a silly thing that was awesome.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  796. lurker (c23034) — 7/16/2024 @ 8:28 pm

    Yes. Some people are so distracted by policy that they overlook the most dangerous policy of all–trying to overturn elections.

    For those who dispute that is Trump’s policy, look at what he said after losing to Ted Cruz in the 2016 Iowa Republican primary.

    (link at comment 811)

    I think too many people have become inured to Trump.

    norcal (2a05c2)

  797. asset (4f80bd) — 7/16/2024 @ 8:33 pm

    Asset, I never knew ye!

    Of all the cars you mentioned, I covet the ’64 Plymouth Fury the most. (The Lamborghini is out of my league, so I’m not going to dream about it).

    norcal (2a05c2)

  798. Klink,

    BMW M’s are nice, and they are within the realm of possibility for me, especially used ones. Adam Carolla says they drive like no other car. Plus, I have ancestors from Bavaria.

    norcal (2a05c2)

  799. Other than the M2, the current ones are way too fat. I think peak M was either the E39 M5 or maybe the E90 M3. The newer ones are faster, a lot, but not better.

    I still think the CTS-V wagon was perfect, fast, loud, silly fun. A couple of the new Mini’s were great too, not fast, but just happy.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  800. @813 “sic semper tyrannis”

    lloyd (e46c28)

  801. Then why support someone who delayed the insurrection case against Trump. Didn’t really even file it, actually. So that they could make all these arguments while they slid their putrid policies past the noses of the electorate.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/16/2024 @ 2:25 pm

    Do you have evidence of this conspiracy? Because I’ve seen and heard none. If it was an actual, operating plan you’d think there’d at least be anonymous leaks.

    What I do recall, not long after 1/6, was Ken White on his podcast cautioning people not to expect any quick Trump indictments, since complicated cases like this one with scores of defendants can be agonizingly slow to develop. The prosecution works its way methodically up the ladder from the least important defendant to the most, and reaching the top can take years. (The Jan 6 case took about 2 1/2 yrs to indictment, the records case with far fewer defendants took 10 months.) I would remember that advice every time I heard lefty commentators complaining that the prosecution wasn’t moving fast enough and Garland should step on it.

    Imagine the furor if it came out that Garland did put his thumb on the scale to prosecute Trump faster than any other defendant, and more so if he did it on orders from Biden.

    Also, your theory requires us to believe that Merrick Garland is a stupid, terrible lawyer who didn’t anticipate the predictable certainty that Trump’s lawyers would employ every delaying tactic at their disposal, thus putting the prosecutions at risk of what’s now going to happen, i.e., being killed off by Trump when he takes office again. And not just Garland, but all the other smart, experienced DOJ prosecutors on the case. To think they would slow walk the prosecution, putting the whole case at risk of this devastating result, all for for some speculative political benefit, strains credulity even if there was a shred of evidence it happened.

    Until I see actual evidence of foot dragging, my working assumption is that Garland, with no input from Biden, has run Trump’s prosecution by-the-book, among other reasons to inoculate himself from precisely this kind of accusation of political bias. Not that it could ever work. Bias accusations are rampant, which is to be expected. But milktoast, by-the-book institutionalism has long been Garland’s brand — it’s probably why Orrin Hatch recommended him to Obama for SCOTUS — so I assume it was his M.O. here.

    If you have evidence to the contrary, I’d love to see it.

    lurker (c23034)

  802. @813 “sic semper tyrannis”

    lloyd (e46c28) — 7/16/2024 @ 10:06 pm

    Not sure which tyrant and how many levels of irony you have in mind, but OK.

    lurker (c23034)

  803. lurker (c23034) — 7/16/2024 @ 10:24 pm

    Great comment, lurker.

    In my career, I saw deportation cases take longer than Trump’s prosecutions, and prison wasn’t even an issue–it was just returning to the person’s home country!

    norcal (2a05c2)

  804. Some people are so distracted by policy that they overlook the most dangerous policy of all–trying to overturn elections.

    The National Popular Vote Compact is a Democrat plot to steal elections. That they have found a more legal way to do it does not change their goal.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  805. Do you have evidence of this conspiracy? Because I’ve seen and heard none. If it was an actual, operating plan you’d think there’d at least be anonymous leaks.

    The one-party apparatus only leaks when Republicans try stuff. In the rare cases they leak during a Democrat administration, the whistleblowers are marginalized and ignored.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  806. Also, your theory requires us to believe that Merrick Garland is a stupid, terrible lawyer who didn’t anticipate the predictable certainty that Trump’s lawyers would employ every delaying tactic at their disposal, thus putting the prosecutions at risk of what’s now going to happen

    No, I think they relied on it. They did not want Trump convicted before the election, they wanted a weak opponent. They just didn’t expect to have a weaker one on their side.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  807. Thanks, norcal.

    lurker (c23034)

  808. When I was in my early teens growing up in the hills behind Montecito there was former WWII Royal Canadian Navy guy we knew because his steep hillside land was one of our shortcuts back to one of the waterfalls. His wife was from a lot of money and he tooled around in a 1930’s BMW Roadster. I can’t remember his exact words, but he’d say things like “the Huns made remarkable automobiles”. We passed over his land because a pipeline from a spring ran through it so there was a trail no one but a few knew was there (there was also a landslide that looked like trouble, but the pipeline maintenance guys had chopped steps in the clay and hung ropes in the trees above so you could pass through rope to rope- it took about 3 minutes to cross but looked so intimidating no one liked to use it)
    One of my buddies dad lived on an estate with water rights to the spring and when he needed to work on the pipe on a Saturday or in the summer, he’d have us carry stuff for him, he’d fix the pipe and we’d go swimming.

    steveg (b6b312)

  809. Do you have evidence of this conspiracy? Because I’ve seen and heard none. If it was an actual, operating plan you’d think there’d at least be anonymous leaks.

    The one-party apparatus only leaks when Republicans try stuff. In the rare cases they leak during a Democrat administration, the whistleblowers are marginalized and ignored.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/16/2024 @ 10:40 pm

    In other words, no evidence. And since Democrats never leak, like all the best conspiracy theories, it’s unfalsifiable.

    lurker (c23034)

  810. Also, your theory requires us to believe that Merrick Garland is a stupid, terrible lawyer who didn’t anticipate the predictable certainty that Trump’s lawyers would employ every delaying tactic at their disposal, thus putting the prosecutions at risk of what’s now going to happen

    No, I think they relied on it. They did not want Trump convicted before the election, they wanted a weak opponent. They just didn’t expect to have a weaker one on their side.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/16/2024 @ 10:43 pm

    That’s silly. Let’s assume for the sake of argument your frankly implausible belief that they entirely dismissed the possibility Trump would win a race in which he’s never trailed. If, as you say, they relied on Trump’s delaying tactics, they’d have known his trials wouldn’t begin before the election, so they wouldn’t even get the marginal benefit you say they were after from a “weakened” Trump. Which is exactly what happened. And you think this is what they wanted? Lol.

    lurker (c23034)

  811. Some people are so distracted by policy that they overlook the most dangerous policy of all–trying to overturn elections.

    The National Popular Vote Compact is a Democrat plot to steal elections. That they have found a more legal way to do it does not change their goal.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/16/2024 @ 10:38 pm

    No, Kevin, the fact that their way is legal means they’re trying to win elections, not steal them. Whether this method is constitutional is questionable, a question that will be answered if the Compact ever gets enough support to reach critical mass. If, as I suspect, SCOTUS says it’s unconstitutional, the Democrats won’t storm the Supreme Court and try to take by force the presidency they would have won had the Compact passed constitutional muster. That’s the democratic process backstopped by judicial review. Comparing it to Trump’s attempt to foil the peaceful transfer of power is the falsest of equivalences.

    lurker (c23034)

  812. (First paragraph of the blockquote should have been italicized)

    lurker (c23034)

  813. LOL

    Dustin (36e56d)

  814. Please please tell me that some of this car erotica involved a manual transmission, otherwise y’all are just making me sad.

    Nic (120c94)

  815. @817 I bought the 67 lambo for 4 thousand dollers and trade a 1966 chevy impala ss 427 4 speed convertible for it in 1973 during first oil crisis. Then traded it for a semi truck which is why I am broke today. Actually I was not into wealth until it was to late! Being a philosophy major from asu football and party school The kids in back were practicing their tennis back hand while argued existential metaphysics with the professor explaining to him those who can’t do teach! I still live my philosophy non-exploitive capitalism(how many philosophers can say that0 being a capitalist slave wage master ;but with no capitalist wage slaves.

    asset (4f80bd)

  816. Populism was around when andrew jackson sent my ancestors to oklahoma and before that whisky rebellion. Mostly in the democrat party until nixon/reagan’s southern strategy. The wealthy republicans kept a lid on it till trump left the democrat party. Bernie Sanders is still a democrat populist as are his supporters. A lot of sanders / trump voters in 2016. I voted for Jill Stein not clinton in 2016 and will do so again in 2024.

    asset (4f80bd)

  817. I never had an auto myself from the original build Chevelle until the i8, now the EV has no traditional transmission.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  818. Bernie Sanders is a millionaire, who owns three homes. If he has ever given any substantial amount to charity, it has escaped my attention.

    (To be fair, he does seem a little embarrassed about his honeymoon in the old Soviet Union, but perhaps just because of the bad publicity.)

    Jim Miller (cc0511)

  819. Biden’s probable interference with prosecutions was probably to protect his son Hunter, not to weaponize against Donald Trump – that was probably a sincere effort by his aides to keep Trump away from the presidency,, regard;ess of how it affected the election. They even ginned up state prosecutions which a future president Trump couldn’t pardon. The motive for that must have been sincere.

    Sammy Finkelman (51823e)

  820. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/16/us/politics/biden-election.html

    …Mr. Biden speaks frequently to his son Hunter Biden, who calls and texts the president and first lady multiple times a day to see how they are coping with the onslaught of scrutiny surrounding his father’s health, mental fitness and final presidential campaign.

    I don’t understand why Biden could be so scared that he could be denied the nomination except maybe he’s afraid something coulld come out.

    Sammy Finkelman (51823e)

  821. Don’t pay attention to Biden’s proposals to destroy the independence of the Supreme Court. They are acts of desperation, I would rather pay attention to how long it took him to endorse them.

    Sammy Finkelman (51823e)

  822. @Nic. It’s car exotica. \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

    Sammy Finkelman (51823e)

  823. norcal (2a05c2) — 7/16/2024 @ 7:34 pm

    What he really means is Donald Trump will become totally unhinged if Donald Trump is not elected in November.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/13/us/politics/republican-election-campaign-2024.html

    The Republican Party and its conservative allies are engaged in an unprecedented legal campaign targeting the American voting system. Their wide-ranging and methodical effort is laying the groundwork to contest an election that they argue, falsely, is already being rigged against former President Donald J. Trump.

    The campaign involves a powerful network of Republican lawyers and activist groups, working loosely in concert with the Republican National Committee. Many of the key players were active in Mr. Trump’s attempt to overturn the results of the 2020 election.

    But unlike the chaotic and improvised challenge four years ago, the new drive includes a systematic search for any vulnerability in the nation’s patchwork election system.

    Mr. Trump’s allies have followed a two-pronged approach: restricting voting for partisan advantage ahead of Election Day and short-circuiting the process of ratifying the winner afterward, if Mr. Trump loses. The latter strategy involves an ambitious — and legally dubious — attempt to reimagine decades of settled law dictating how results are officially certified in the weeks before the transfer of power.
    At the heart of the strategy is a drive to convince voters that the election is about to be stolen, even without evidence. Democrats use mail voting, drop boxes and voter registration drives to swing elections, they have argued. And Mr. Trump’s indictments and criminal conviction are a Biden administration gambit to interfere with the election, they claim…..

    Sammy Finkelman (51823e)

  824. @813

    +1. Biden has said and done plenty to condemn, but he hasn’t tried to end the Republic. Trump did. There’s no equivalence.

    lurker (c23034) — 7/16/2024 @ 8:28 pm

    More hyperbole that doesn’t match reality.

    Biden has done far more “authoritarian” acts that Trump has ever did.

    And is now advocating for price controls of rent/mortgagues that has zero constitutional framework…

    And is also now advocating to “reform” SCOTUS that flies in the face of constitutional separation of powers.

    So… again… miss me with that “he tried to end the Republican” bs.

    whembly (477db6)

  825. steveg (b6b312) — 7/16/2024 @ 5:59 pm

    ? I think Crook got off 3 shots as it was, and if he’d gone for center mass, he’d probably hit all three because Trump is a wide load

    Hanlon’s Razor applies here but I’d still ask for the Director’s, texts and emails

    \\\\\\\Threee shots followed by five more. \\The Secret Service had delegated the ressposbility outside the perimeter to the local police. They didn’t have correctly, days later, where they were. They were not inside the same building but in a neighboring building/\\There were alot of stupid things done.

    One stupid thing: When searching for asniper, they didn’t stop the proceeedings. They’d do that for abomb threat. They may have seen him but didn’t know he was not a local policeman out of uniform. Or he hadn’t done anything illegal yet.

    The local police: Told there was aman withna rfiel on the roof, a policeman climbed on top o another policeman (they didn’t find the ladder Crooks had bought at Home Depot) with no cniisderation gicen to the question: what if they’re right and there is asniper on he roof? </i?

    The policeman poked his head on to the roof, saw the sniper, the sniper saw hi,. he got down and even fell (he was clinging with both hands to the bottom of the roof unable to pull out his gun or his radio)\\That caused Crooks to fire almost immediately.

    Sammy Finkelman (51823e)

  826. The National Popular Vote Compact is a Democrat plot to steal elections. That they have found a more legal way to do it does not change their goal.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/16/2024 @ 10:38 pm

    I would be in favor of the NPVC if only to see California forced to allocate its electoral votes to President Donald Trump, Jr. 🤣

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  827. @846

    I would be in favor of the NPVC if only to see California forced to allocate its electoral votes to President Donald Trump, Jr. 🤣

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/17/2024 @ 8:25 am

    Heh… too bad any NPVC application would be overturned in court as it’s constitutionally infirm.

    I think, at best, states could allocate EV by congressional district (ie, like NE and MA).

    whembly (477db6)

  828. https://www.campusreform.org/article/canadian-professor-laments-trumps-survival-assassination-attempt-damn-close-bad/25895

    How many of you know people like this whose soul’s so corrupted that they wish for the murder of their political opponents?

    NJRob (1f8aef)

  829. > Heh… too bad any NPVC application would be overturned in court as it’s constitutionally infirm.

    Why?

    Article II, Section 1:

    > Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.

    For the NPVC to be constitutionally infirm there must be some constitutional limitation preventing the state legislature from using that manner to appoint electors.

    Where in the constitution does that limitation arise?

    aphrael (1797ab)

  830. Trump shooter requested Saturday off from work and told colleagues he’d be back at work Sunday, officials say

    The shooter who attempted to assassinate former President Donald Trump on Saturday normally would have been at work that day, but he told his boss he needed that the day off because he had “something to do,” according to multiple law enforcement officials.
    ………
    By 3 p.m. on Saturday, roughly three hours before the shooting, Crooks was at the security screening area for the rally. He first aroused suspicion when he passed through the magnetometers carrying a rangefinder, which looks similar to a small pair of binoculars and is used by hunters and target shooters to measure distances when setting up a long-range shot, according to a senior law enforcement official briefed on the investigation.

    The rangefinder would not have prevented Crooks from getting through the security screening point, but it did attract the attention of security personnel who kept an eye on him until he left the secure area.

    Investigators are unsure of where Crooks went after he left the screening area but the working theory is that he went to his car to retrieve the rifle.
    ………..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  831. Crazy and brainwashed MAGA extremist gets stage time at the RNC Convention to whip violent MAGA racists into a frenzy. Scary stuff.

    BuDuh (4214e4)

  832. No, Kevin, the fact that their way is legal means they’re trying to win elections, not steal them.

    No, it’s not legal. It is, in fact, less unconstitutional that what Trump tried.

    Trump tried to have the House decide an election by casting out votes as “unreliable” — that is actually allowed under the Constitution, if barely (and even if misused).

    An interstate compact is expressly disallowed by Article I, Section 10. Further, choosing the state’s electors by a private company’s estimate of the national vote is outside any normal bounds. It is so subject to gaming and fraud (the fraud in 1960 WOULD have changed the outcome), difficult recounts, and simple reneging, that it would destabilize US elections in a terrible way.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  833. *less constitutional

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  834. @849

    Where in the constitution does that limitation arise?

    aphrael (1797ab) — 7/17/2024 @ 9:25 am

    Not only did the framers of the Constitution expressly reject the idea of a direct, popular election for President, but also not one state either in the wake of ratification or at any time thereafter has ever sought to appoint its presidential electors on the basis of votes cast outside the state, as the NPVC requires.

    If opponents wants to abolish the Electoral College, the sole constitutionally proper mechanism for doing so is a federal constitutional amendment, not an interstate compact negotiated by a handful of states.

    …but to answer your question: Where in the constitution does that limitation arise?

    See the 14th Amendment:

    No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States . . . nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

    I don’t see how that taking away a voter’s right to have a vote counted for the person the voter prefers for president in that voter’s state is not abridging that person’s privileges and immunities under the 14th Amendment and the U.S. Constitution.

    Put it another way, the NPVC nullifies the vote of every voter in a state that does not vote for the winner of the national popular vote, destroying the very clear intent of how the Electoral College is supposed to work.

    whembly (477db6)

  835. Populism was around when andrew jackson

    Populism is a blunt instrument. Normally, everyone is happy to let the wonks and elites run things — they do a good job when they aren’t selfish. It is when the wonks and elites fail to serve large segments of the voting population for too long a time that you get Populism. It’s a correction, and it is usually pretty ham-handed.

    Don’t like Populism (and those who are in government hate it)? Govern better and it won’t happen.

    Up until Jackson, the vote was restricted to property owners and the government only served property owners. The self-serving became rampant and the government corrupt and so, Jackson (and they cheated him out of his first victory in a way that would make Donald Trump blush).

    Yes, the Trail of Tears. But Jackson ALSO extended the vote to all male citizens and transformed the government as a result, resulting in several new parties forming and failing and forming again. The rise of the anti-slavery Republicans would not have happened without Jackson’s reforms.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  836. Where in the constitution does that limitation arise?

    Article I, Section 10:

    No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  837. I will note that this term, the Supreme Court had to adjudicate a suit between New Mexico and Texas over a water compact from a century ago in which the two states had agreed to split Rio Grande water in a way that ignored other users. And that was just two states and an approved Compact. Just imagine a dispute in a 30-state compact.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  838. Got caught up watching the RNC speeches of last night:

    1. Mom whose son died of a drug overdose:

    Anne Fundner, who lost her 15-year-old son to fentanyl poisoning, brought the crowd at the RNC to tears Tuesday night with her remarks focused on the importance of securing the border and stopping the flow of fentanyl into the U.S.

    This resonated with me deeply.

    My son’s best friend OD on fentanyl contaminated weed. Ya’ll know my position on this.

    2. Reminder of the costs of illegal immigration:

    The family of a mother of five who was murdered, allegedly by an illegal immigrant, took aim at the Biden administration for having “opened our borders” to the man accused of killing her.

    This needs to be hammered in every Ad as the Biden supporters has zero answer for this. Even those whom are NeverTrumpers voting for Biden.

    You don’t get to sit there and opine that a 2nd Trump administration will “destroy the Republic” and ignore the real human disasters perpetuated by the Democrat’s open border policies.

    3. Haley’s speech was straight fire and calls her supporters to come back into the fold.

    4. DeSantis’ speech was so good. Where was this guy during the primaries??? Loved his :Weekend at Bernie’s’ presidency”, spiel.

    whembly (477db6)

  839. @856

    Article I, Section 10:

    No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/17/2024 @ 9:51 am

    I was also going to point that out too. But, yes, NPVC has many constitutional issues.

    whembly (477db6)

  840. So, Trump says that Taiwan must pay for its defense. This is in line with his attitude towards NATO. For other nations to skimp on their defense and rely on Uncle Sam to pick up the tab (while spending on social programs that our defense outlays preclude) is galling to Trump. He’s not wrong in that, although his table-pounding is a bit much.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  841. The Constitutional issues of the NPVC are the least of its problems. If the election of 1960 happened under the NPVC, the nation would be torn asunder by (true) allegations of fraud, a 50-state recount (with lawyers) and no certainty in the result.

    The Electoral college is a firewall. It prevents fraud in any one state from having a great effect (and usually no effect as the fraud will always be in the direction of the party that controls the state). It allows simple recounts. It guarantees that large population centers will not have absolute control of the outcome. It intentionally favors the candidate who wins the most states in a close election, as wider support gives a more stable result.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  842. DeSantis’ speech was so good. Where was this guy during the primaries

    I thought it was a complete ass-kiss. DeSantis has always been a bit low-brow for me, but then this is Trump’s world, where low-brow is the norm so maybe I have to suck it up.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  843. An interstate compact is expressly disallowed by Article I, Section 10.

    Not true. However, even the plain language of Article I, Section 10 requiring congressional approval may not apply.

    ……(T)he Compact Clause allows states to retain what the Supreme Court has described as the sovereign right to make agreements and compacts, provided Congress consents……..Once approved by Congress, agreements and compacts have the force of federal law.

    In the context of interstate compacts, however, the Supreme Court has adopted a functional interpretation in which only compacts that increase the political power of the states while undermining federal sovereignty require congressional consent.

    Footnotes omitted.

    The Compact Clause does not limit their subjects; current interstate compacts cover a wide range of subjects:

    For much of American history, boundary disputes were the predominant subject of interstate compacts. Beginning in the 1920s, states developed compacts as a tool for solving more complex regional problems. States made compacts to apportion interstate water bodies and to manage interstate resources and properties, such as oil and gas, fisheries, and parks. They also began to use compacts to carry out major public undertakings and infrastructure projects, such as the Port of New York and New Jersey. Later in the 20th century, interstate compacts addressed an even wider range of issues, with Congress approving interstate compacts on subjects as varied as education, urban planning, historical preservation, taxes, emergency aid, fire prevention, transportation, sewage disposal, and radioactive waste management.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  844. Haley should get an Emmy for her “happy warrior” performance. You could hardly see her gritted teeth.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  845. Here is a discussion of the legal issues around the proposed National Popular Vote Compact.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  846. In the context of interstate compacts, however, the Supreme Court has adopted a functional interpretation in which only compacts that increase the political power of the states while undermining federal sovereignty require congressional consent.

    In this case it would disenfranchise the citizens of non-compact states, or at least change the meaning of their votes to something not countenanced in the federal constitution.

    But that sophistry (the product of the Taney and Jim Crow courts) probably would not survive the current court.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  847. Haley should get an Emmy for her “happy warrior” performance. You could hardly see her gritted teeth.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/17/2024 @ 10:11 am

    That’s because she has become a true believer.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  848. That’s because she has become a true believer.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/17/2024 @ 10:17 am

    Like Vance.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  849. My point, though is that the NPVC would transform federal elections so that they were subject to the raw power of population centers — something that the Founders expressly rejected — reduce the influence of smaller states and their people, and negate all of the firewall protections.

    It is a raw power grab by the Democrats as raw as what Trump tried to do.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  850. That’s because she has become a true believer.

    Not on Ukraine or isolationism, she’s not. That was a surrender.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  851. Vance’s transformation isn’t all that great. His objections to Trump had little to do with desired policy — he just thought that Trump was a con man who wouldn’t do crap for the little people. He is now convinced otherwise, given the mass influx of manufacturing and capital back to the USA as the result of Trump’s undoing of globalism.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  852. Adam Schiff calls for Biden to drop out.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  853. Sean O’Brien’s speech to the RNC is causing waves among Democrats. The last Teamsters Union president to support a Republican (Nixon) was Jimmy Hoffa.

    Don’t go to any out-of-the-way meetings, Sean.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  854. My point, though is that the NPVC would transform federal elections so that they were subject to the raw power of population centers — something that the Founders expressly rejected — reduce the influence of smaller states and their people, and negate all of the firewall protections.

    It is a raw power grab by the Democrats as raw as what Trump tried to do.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/17/2024 @ 10:20 am

    It must be the slowest moving power grab in history (18 years and counting). Not only will it be challenged in the courts, I’ll bet legislation disapproving it will fly through Congress. Among the threats to the political system, this ranks pretty far behind Trump and what happened on January 6th.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  855. And given how the Constitution gives the states the power to decide how to distribute its electoral votes, a state can award its electoral votes proportionally based on the national vote now. Awarding electoral votes through winner take all is just a tradition.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  856. a state can award its electoral votes proportionally based on the national vote now.

    No state does that, or will. It all hinges on an illegal compact.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  857. Today is the second day of Prime Days. Thursday and Friday are Prime Pirate Days.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  858. a state can award its electoral votes proportionally based on the national vote now.

    No state does that, or will. It all hinges on an illegal compact.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/17/2024 @ 11:15 am

    While no state does that now, what is preventing California, for example, from changing how it allocates its electoral votes from winner take all to the general election winner?

    Nothing, except this year they would probably go to Trump. 😉

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  859. @878 Trump winning the popular vote is fools good.

    No chance.

    whembly (477db6)

  860. @878 Trump winning the popular vote is fools good.

    No chance.

    whembly (477db6) — 7/17/2024 @ 11:41 am

    We’ll see.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  861. Jack Smith done F’ed up.

    F’ed up royally:
    https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/garland-and-smith-have-themselves-to-blame-for-outright-dismissal-of-the-florida-case-against-trump/

    While taken aback by the timing, I was not surprised by the ruling (having anticipated it here and here). I have to caveat, though, that Judge Cannon went further than I thought she would. That is, I was convinced she would (and should) hold that Attorney General Merrick Garland’s appointment of Smith violated the appointments clause; but I also figured she would give the Justice Department an opportunity (a) to cure the constitutional defect (which, as I explained yesterday, Garland could easily have done), and (b) salvage the indictment and the enormous amount of pretrial work done in the case since it was indicted over 13 months ago.

    Because they’ve insisted on a counterproductive appeal rather than accepting the ruling and curing the defect, I’ve contended that Garland and the Biden Justice Department are being arrogant. I didn’t account for the half of it. Judge Cannon wanted prosecutors to propose an alternative to outright dismissal of the case. They mulishly refused to do it, calculating that the judge would flinch from ruling against them if that meant throwing out the entire case — including all the work Cannon herself had devoted to it.

    Judge Cannon explained her ruling in a 93-page opinion that is so extraordinarily thorough and well-reasoned it puts to shame the briefs on the subject filed by Smith and Trump’s defense.

    This is indefensible. It is also incumbent on the parties in litigation, especially the government, to address what is to be done depending on how the court rules. Smith and the Biden Justice Department instead presumed that, with all their lawyer-Left friends lobbying the Eleventh Circuit to remove her from the case, and all their pals in the commentariat smearing her (as summarized here), Judge Cannon would lack to fortitude to rule against them. They wagered that she’d never dismiss the case if they didn’t propose an alternative . . . so they didn’t propose an alternative.

    That is not how the Justice Department normally conducts itself. Arrogance may not be a strong enough word to describe it. The case did not need to be dismissed. All Attorney General Garland had to do was make a few adjustments in the chain of command, and all Jack Smith had to do was marshal a waiver argument. But they stubbornly resisted, and their hubris has bought them an outright dismissal after 13 months of burning through public resources.

    Read the whole thing… Smith and Garland can only blame themselves for this.

    whembly (477db6)

  862. My wife’s car is automatic, but she can drive a manual.

    My old Land Cruiser and my daily driver truck are both manual.
    I bought my truck from Carmax and overpaid to get a stick, because I had to have it shipped.

    When I need to drive my wifes car, I occasionally find myself hitting the brake with my left foot in circumstances where normally I’d be down shifting.
    I have a tachometer, but shift each vehicle according to sound. The automatic transmission and engine sounds are not significant enough to make me instinctively reach for the clutch pedal.
    The one thing I do when driving my wifes car on downhill backroads here is use the automatic transmission low L2 to coast and not use the brakes because I know that the transmission can hold at 25-30. Most people leave it in Drive

    steveg (5521ca)

  863. Cannon is going to get overruled, assuming the 11th Circuit gets a chance to hear the case.
    For one, the Congressional authority is 28 USC 533. Cannon places her own arbitrary conditions in her ruling, ones that don’t exist in the language of the statute.
    For another, the irony is that she relied on Thomas’ dicta while derogating US v. Nixon for dicta. Curiously, she scarcely mentions Thomas, even though her ruling comes only a couple weeks after Thomas’ dicta.
    For another, the DC Circuit is a higher court that ruled against her and Roger Stone in 2018. Instead of staying in her lane, she jumped out of it in defense of the defendant who appointed her to her job.
    However, I suspect that, with a Trump victory, there won’t be a higher court that will challenge her ruling.

    Paul Montagu (eb642b)

  864. @Col Klink @837 and @steveg @882- Thank goodness. I wish hybrids and EVs came in manual, but, sigh, they do not. Very little in my price range comes in a manual anymore, which also makes me sad.

    Nic (120c94)

  865. Today is the exact 28th anniversary of the crash of TWA Flight 800. Wednesday, July 17, 1996. Check when sunset is.

    All those FBI and other (published) reports – the FBI never allowed anyone else to interview the “witnesses” of possible missile sightings – were after it was dark. They were flares.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  866. 877 Kevin M (a9545f) — 7/17/2024 @ 11:15 am

    . It all hinges on an illegal compact.

    The compact may be legally invalid, but it doesn’t change California’s method of choosing the Electors.

    One thing though: Under this system different state courts may not all rule that the same candidate won the popular vote.

    As you said, the 1960 election gives you an indication of what could happen under this method of choosing Electors.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  867. Here is video of Trump hitting the ER after being grazed.
    At :58 in the video, Trump apparently heals an African American man in a wheelchair

    https://x.com/i/status/1813594899947905353

    steveg (5521ca)

  868. whembly (477db6) — 7/17/2024 @ 9:46 am

    I don’t see how that taking away a voter’s right to have a vote counted for the person the voter prefers for president in that voter’s state is not abridging that person’s privileges and immunities under the 14th Amendment and the U.S. Constitution.

    There is no such right. The state of Maryland could pass a law saying that Electors for president shall be chosen based on the combined votes of Maryland and DC, Or Maryland and DC and Virginia. As long as they did it before the election.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  869. Cellebrite CLBT up $.81 in trading today
    I’ve done zero due diligence but might be worth the time

    steveg (5521ca)

  870. @883

    Cannon is going to get overruled, assuming the 11th Circuit gets a chance to hear the case.

    We’ll see. Smith is appealing.

    For one, the Congressional authority is 28 USC 533. Cannon places her own arbitrary conditions in her ruling, ones that don’t exist in the language of the statute.

    This tells me you didn’t read her opinion has she directly confronts that.. here lemme help you:
    https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2024/07/Trump_Florida.pdf

    For another, the irony is that she relied on Thomas’ dicta while derogating US v. Nixon for dicta.

    Thomas’ dicta DIRECTLY confronts this question.

    Nixon’s dicta really did not.

    Curiously, she scarcely mentions Thomas, even though her ruling comes only a couple weeks after Thomas’ dicta.
    For another, the DC Circuit is a higher court that ruled against her and Roger Stone in 2018. Instead of staying in her lane, she jumped out of it in defense of the defendant who appointed her to her job.

    DC Circuit is not over her district. No judge is required to follow another’s district Appellate ruling other than their own appellate division.

    However, I suspect that, with a Trump victory, there won’t be a higher court that will challenge her ruling.

    Paul Montagu (eb642b) — 7/17/2024 @ 12:20 pm

    The 11th Circuit moved pretty damn quickly regarding Cannon’s Document Master’s ruling.

    If speed is warranted, there’s no reason why the 11th Circuit wouldn’t move quickly. If they don’t… THAT should be an indication too as to how strong Cannon’s opinion is.

    whembly (477db6)

  871. Nic (120c94) — 7/17/2024 @ 12:26 pm

    I drove a manual Toyota Celica GT from 1993 to 2007, and a manual Jeep Wrangler from 2009 to 2023. No more manuals for me, thank you.

    Thirteen of those stick years were in the Bay Area. Between stop-and-go traffic and those San Franciso hills, I’ve had enough of standard transmissions to last a lifetime.

    There hasn’t been a Ford F150 (gas!) pickup in manual transmission for several years.

    My cousin likes manual transmissions because it gives her “something to do”. I don’t get bored that easily.

    norcal (1f374d)

  872. https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/how-much-is-enough-democrats

    …“The idea — the idea — that corporate-owned housing is able to raise your rent three, four hundred bucks a month or something,” Biden told an audience at the annual NAACP convention. Here, he paused, leaned toward the teleprompter, and squinted. “What I’m about to announce,” Biden strained, “you can’t raise it more than” — he paused again before whispering with palpable insecurity — “$55 dollars….

    ….It’s obvious what happened here. Because the percent sign looks to weakened eyes like the Arabic numeral “5,” Biden misread his plan to cap rent hikes at 5 percent annually as a proposal to limit the absolute value of all rent hikes at this ludicrously low figure. This is not an “it can happen to anyone” moment. It was a terrible lapse, not just of Biden’s capacity to read aloud but also to apply critical faculties to what it was he was trying to read. And it seemed like a breaking point — at least, in the press, whose sympathy for Biden’s condition is all but spent. The manifestations of the president’s age-related infirmities no longer elicit pity for him or their own evaporating political prospects. Now, it’s a joke.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  873. Medellin’s Revenge did do one good thing by dismissing the case besides quintupling her “honoraria” on the paid-speaking circuit.

    She made things a little less dangerous for the prosecutors, the FBI, and the witnesses on whose backs Trump has been painting bullseyes for his loonies over the last two years.

    nk (88a621)

  874. It wasn’t just 26 minutes. Police had the shooter under (perhaps hit and miss) observation for an hour, although not initially with a rifle.

    https://www.newser.com/story/353077/cops-flagged-trump-shooter-an-hour-before-he-fired.html

    Cops Flagged Trump Shooter an Hour Before He Fired

    Local police describe ‘extremely poor planning’ at rally in Butler

    …According to WPXI, Thomas Crooks was seen by police in the vicinity of the American Glass Research complex, outside the security perimeter for Trump’s rally in Butler, more than an hour before he opened fire. Police also snapped photos of him at least 26 minutes before the shooting and shared them with the Secret Service, per WPXI. Crooks was not initially seen with a gun. However, a Beaver County counter-sniper inside the AGR building spotted him with a range finder and informed the command center, per CBS News and BeaverCountian.com.

    Man Who Ran Infamous Syrian Prison Has Been Living in LA Rust Armorer Looks to Take Advantage of Baldwin’s Win Bannon Ally Guo Wengui Guilty of $1B Fraud Ozy Media Founder Guilty of ‘Brazen Crimes’ Menendez Is Guilty, Schumer Tells Him to Resign ‘He’s on the Roof!’: Rally Attendees Warned Cops New Search Launched in Bizarre Case Linked to Murdoch FBI Gains Access to Gunman’s Phone Death Row Inmate Who Sued Over His Autopsy Wins Kenya: Suspect Confessed to Killing 42 Women Rep. Bennie Thompson Fires Staffer Over Trump Comments Man Killed at Rally ‘Died a Hero’
    CRIME /
    TRUMP RALLY SHOOTING
    Cops Flagged Trump Shooter an Hour Before He Fired
    Local police describe ‘extremely poor planning’ at rally in Butler

    By Arden Dier, Newser Staff
    Posted Jul 17, 2024 6:24 AM CDT

    Cops Flagged Trump Shooter an Hour Before He Fired
    Republican presidential candidate former President Donald Trump speaks at a campaign rally, Saturday, July 13, 2024, in Butler, Pa. (AP Photo/Evan Vucci)
    See 1 more photo
    The police response to a suspicious person who ultimately tried to assassinate former President Trump in Pennsylvania on Saturday is coming into focus. According to WPXI, Thomas Crooks was seen by police in the vicinity of the American Glass Research complex, outside the security perimeter for Trump’s rally in Butler, more than an hour before he opened fire. Police also snapped photos of him at least 26 minutes before the shooting and shared them with the Secret Service, per WPXI. Crooks was not initially seen with a gun. However, a Beaver County counter-sniper inside the AGR building spotted him with a range finder and informed the command center, per CBS News and BeaverCountian.com.

    Crooks then appeared to be scouting out the AGR building. He returned later with a backpack and made his way to the roof after Trump had begun speaking a little more than 400 feet away, per BeaverCountian.com. The shooter was on the roof for fewer than seven minutes when a Butler Township police officer confronted him, per WPXI.

    It was ducking that was the error – it was climbing up without any idea of what to do if he turned out indeed to be carrying a rifle that was the error. Plus the Secret Service not faking technical difficulties to stop the speech when they had let’s say an unconfirmed report that there was man seen with a rifle about 125 to 150 yards away. (A would be perpetrator always needs to think he has more time)

    Crooks reportedly aimed his rifle at the officer, who was unable to access his radio or weapon and dropped out of sight. Law enforcement sources tell WPXI that there were no local police in the building, only two sniper teams positioned nearby. But the Secret Service and other reporting disputes that.

    The Secret Service Director has mixed up two buildings.

    https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/07/16/us/trump-shooting-investigation

    . The director of the Secret Service said that the local forces were in the same building that the sniper fired from, but a local law enforcement official told The New York Times that was not the case, and that the officers were in an adjacent building.

    She can’t even get her subordinates to report the story right to her two or three days later.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  875. The Secret Service snipers also spotted the gunman. But they couldn’t determine what to do — not even (if they were waiting for conformation – I mean it is a serious thing to kill someone) to fake a technical problem with the loudspeakers and pull Trump off the stage.

    https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/07/16/us/trump-shooting-investigation#trump-shooting-butler-pennsylvania-police

    In a later video, which starts one minute and 58 seconds before shots were fired, the Secret Service team looks in the direction of the gunman through binoculars and a sniper scope. The rally attendee taking the video is heard saying, “Uh-oh, something’s going on.”

    At the same time as this video was taken, another clip, shared on Facebook, shows attendees near the building where the gunman was positioned pointing law enforcement to someone on the roof.

    A third video shows that one minute and 35 seconds before the shooting, while the Secret Service team’s attention is still focused toward the gunman, a second sniper team, positioned farther south, turns from facing south to north, toward the gunman. The short clip shows them turn with their weapons and crouch, and then it ends. Later, as shots were fired, this second Secret Service team is seen in another video in the same position, facing the gunman.

    A handful of rally attendees in the bleachers behind Mr. Trump are looking in the direction of the gunman and Secret Service snipers, with one man pointing toward them while talking to a person next to him.

    Secret Service spokesman Anthony Guglielmi has said that local police officers radioed agents about a possible suspicious person before Mr. Trump came onstage. It’s unclear if the sniper teams were alerted.

    Since this was not a bomb threat or a suspicious package, they waited. They didn’t have to fire. They could have gotten Trump out of sight.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  876. https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/07/16/us/trump-shooting-investigation#trump-shooting-butler-pennsylvania-police

    The gunman used the roof of the one-story building closest to the stage from which to fire his AR-15-type weapon.

    But agencies are offering different accounts about which building local law enforcement used as a staging area and a perch for the three local officers called counter snipers. These officers were watching over the crowd as it gathered in the secure zone, a local law enforcement official, who was not authorized to give public statements, said in an interview with The Times.

    It was the two-floor building, the one behind the warehouse used by the gunman, where those snipers were stationed by the windows, the official said.

    After the gunman made it to the roof of the one-story warehouse, a local officer was hoisted by another officer up the building’s wall and over the parapet, only to lock eyes on the gunman, Sheriff Michael T. Slupe of Butler County and a federal law enforcement official said.

    The gunman pointed his weapon at the officer, who immediately retreated, the officials said. Shortly after, the gunman began firing at the rally, and a Secret Service sniper shot and killed him.

    Climbing to the roof of that building for a look-see was a dumb, dumb, thing to do. It precipitated the violence.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  877. 896. Shoulkd be:

    It was NOT ducking that was the error – it was climbing up without any idea of what to do if he turned out indeed to be carrying a rifle that was the error.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  878. States would retain the right to withdraw from the compact, but if a state chose to withdraw within six months of the end of a presidential term, the withdrawal would not be effective until after the succeeding President and Vice President had been elected.

    This part is unconstitutional.

    And what happens if there is no slate of electors in a state that is pledged to the winner? And how is an effective tie (which releases states from the provisions of the national voter compact) determined?

    And are they serious about the state legislature picking the electors after Election Day? They have to be chosen on Election Day per Act of Congress in 1845.

    What kind of lawyers wrote the national voter compact?

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  879. @norcal@892 I like the push when I accelerate and shift up up up, and the control in curves. It’s just more fun.

    Nic (120c94)

  880. What kind of car are we talking about, Nic?

    norcal (1f374d)

  881. My wife’s car is automatic, but she can drive a manual.

    We both grew up on sticks but somewhere along the line LA freeway traffic made a stick unbearable.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  882. However, I suspect that, with a Trump victory, there won’t be a higher court that will challenge her ruling.

    If the People choose Trump with all that they know (and not a soul in the first or second world doesn’t know about Trump) it will be an effective pardon. Not an actual one of course. He’ll still have to face the music in 2029, but it will be more like Clinton did, after.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  883. One thing though: Under this system different state courts may not all rule that the same candidate won the popular vote.

    I believe that the Compact may hinge on what the AP says. There’s a problem waiting for official counts as they might not show up until the last 10 seconds. Probably would take that long from the non-Compact (i.e. Red) states just to F with them.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  884. What kind of lawyers wrote the national voter compact?

    Leftist ones. It is a Democrat Party project to undo the 1787 compromise. Just for that reason it’s unconstitutional as it breaks the agreement that was a prime basis for ratification.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  885. Biden is totally selling out to Gina. Not the other guy.

    Donald Trump has said Taiwan should pay the US for protection from China, calling into question Washington’s support for the island democracy should he win back the White House in November’s presidential election.

    In response to Trump’s comments, premier Cho Jung-tai said Taiwan and the US have good relations despite the lack of formal ties, but added that Taiwan was increasing its capabilities to defend itself. .

    In an interview with Bloomberg Businessweek on Tuesday, Trump was asked if he would defend Taiwan against China if he wins the US election in November. China’s ruling Communist party claims Taiwan as a province and has vowed to annex it, refusing to rule out the use of military force. The US does not formally recognise Taiwan but is it’s most important security partner.

    In response to the question Trump said Taiwan should be paying the US to defend it, that the US was “no different than an insurance company” and that Taiwan “doesn’t give us anything”.

    The US sells Taiwan billions of dollars in weapons under legislative obligations to provide it with the means to defend itself. These sales markedly increased under Trump’s presidency.

    However, Trump’s comments on Tuesday suggest his support for Taiwan is not guaranteed. Trump noted China’s increased military aggression towards Taiwan, said he, “wouldn’t feel too secure if I was [Taiwan]”, and questioned why the US was acting as Taiwan’s “insurance” when, he claimed, they had taken American chip business.

    Without evidence, Trump repeated accusations that Taiwan had taken “almost 100%” of the US’s semiconductor industry.

    Taiwan produces more than 90% of the world’s most advanced chips, mostly through the Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co Ltd (TSMC), the world’s largest producer and a major Apple and Nvidia supplier. TSMC is spending billions building new factories overseas, including $65bn on three plants in the US state of Arizona, though it says most manufacturing will remain in Taiwan. TSMC’s shares were down 2.4% on Wednesday’s close. The broader market ended down 1%.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  886. BTW, today’s activity in the stock market, where a number of stocks dependent upon Taiwan and TSMC took it in the shorts, reminds me of similar market manipulations that were a hallmark of Trump’s first term.

    I’d be fascinated to know what positions Trump confidants had in the market this morning. PUTs on AMD would have worked out just dandy.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  887. The compact is badly written

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  888. The semiconductor industry in the US actively went to the fabless model, selling lots of fabs since it’s incredibly capital intensive to up-gen/shrink the process. Look at NVidia, Apple, AMD, lots easier to design the chip and sub out to TSMC or Samsung. I remember visiting TSMC in Taipei and they were a teeny tiny company.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  889. he claimed, they had taken American chip business.

    This is just false. COuld not be more false, and I say that having spent my last 20 working years designing digital logic for ASICs and FPGAs.

    Back in the 20th, there were no fabless chip design firms. Everyone who made ICs had their own fab or were partners in one. Intel only made Intel, AMD’s motto was “Real men own fabs”, TI, National, Micron, etc all had their own fabs and made parts mostly for themselves. I think IBM may have take orders, but i wasn’t a big deal.

    The fabs started getting pricey and this guy in Taiwan had an idea for a foundry that would make everyone’s chips. This coincided with serious chip-making tools from Cadence and Synopsis and the like that allowed small (and very small) companies to design ICs to be fabbed in Taiwan.

    About the same time, some startups (and ARPA’s MOSIS) allowed small companies to share a TSMC wafer for prototyping and functional test without breaking the bank.

    Intel, AMD, etc were still closed shops.

    During the last 20 years, as fab costs started running into the billions, the smaller players went fabless, and thrived. AMD was probably the last, spinning off its fab business for needed capital.

    And Intel was still a closed shop, although it had the best technology. Then a beancounter took over Intel and cut R&D, cut capital spending and soon enough they started having problems making the next generation of chips. After a few years of denial, Intel had fallen to third place (out of three, Intel, TSMC and Samsung).

    Now Intel has decided that being a closed shop is stupid, that spending on capital and R&D is critical as it catches back up. And they are executing like gangbusters and should be back in the lead in a few years.

    All good. But the Taiwanese didn’t “steal” anything. They just ate Intel’s lunch while Intel was sleeping.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  890. Shorter, the US chip industry changed and the US fabs did not.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  891. Micron may still have fabs, but memory is easier than general logic.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  892. @norcal@901 A not very exciting one 😛 Honda accord. (listen, I work in education, need a reliable car, and have no money to buy something more fun) Even then though it’s more fun than the Prius I drove for several weeks when I broke my right hand back in the early 2000s (traded cars with my mom). My dad’s Miata and my brother’s BMW are fun drives though (both manual).

    Nic (120c94)

  893. In the same interview, Trump said he was still good friends with Shinzo Abe.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  894. Trump said he was still good friends with Shinzo Abe.

    He very nearly was.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  895. A not very exciting one

    I have that beat: A 1975 Honda Civic CVCC. Which I drove into the ground at about 130,000 miles — the CVCC has many virtues but when the block started having problems, boy did it.

    My next car was also a stick — first year Toyota MR2, with the best shifter I’ve ever had and seats so nice they got stolen 3 times.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  896. From the Hill:

    Biden took part in a Zoom call with lawmakers from the Congressional Progressive Caucus last weekend, an aide passed him a note that read, “Stay positive. You are sounding defensive.”
    Sources familiar with the call said Biden “intentionally” read the note out loud for a moment of levity during a call with anxious lawmakers.

    steveg (5521ca)

  897. Biden to Rep. Crow of CO: First of all, I think you’re dead wrong on national security. You saw what happened recently in terms of the meeting we had with NATO. I put NATO together. Name me a foreign leader who thinks I’m not the most effective leader in the world on foreign policy,” Biden said, raising his voice.

    steveg (5521ca)

  898. Trump said he was still good friends with Shinzo Abe.

    He very nearly was.

    He used the present tense, as in he had talked to him recently about Japan having a closed market for US cars.

    That’s true, Japan’s market is tough to crack with SUV’s and trucks, the things the US would export, but Shinzo Abe ceased to be PM in 2020, and was assasinated in 2022. Confusing when things happened is pretty typical for an old, after you’ve been alive for 78 years, 6 or 8 years ago seems like yesterday. Calling it a “senior moment” would be OK if he had never been cought in a lie, like 75% of the things he claims.

    He always knows the guy, or is the guy, or is the smartest guy, no matter what it is, even if the guy is dead. There’s few people in the US that probably remembers that Abe’s been dead for years.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  899. Well, two years. But you and I did.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  900. I have a modest suggestion for how the Democrats can beat Trump:

    Nominate Nikki Haley.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  901. #921 An excellent suggestion.

    Jim Miller (32284f)

  902. Name me a foreign leader who thinks I’m not the most effective leader in the world on foreign policy

    I think it would be hard to find one…on the record. They’d all publicly say it, but are absolutely petrified that he’s the guy running for prez, against a guy and his veep who actively want to orphan NATO.

    Let’s face it, the US demanded to be the leader of NATO since day one, we want that influence, but it has costs too.

    It’s a MASSIVE decision to be talking about retrenching America as the leading global power. If we, as a country, we decide that there’s no benefit to us in defending Europe or Taiwan, then so be it. I still think the American people don’t feel that way, but I’d be open to a debate about it. Biden, even 5 years ago could probably be an articulate advocate, I have tremendous doubts today, and seeing the RNC this week, I don’t see anyone standing up and saying hold on here inside the tent. That used to be McCain and Graham, but when McCain died, Graham lost his true north, he never had a spine, but McCain was the angel on his shoulder, I guess he’s happy in the good place and doesn’t want to visit his soulmate.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  903. Biden tests positive for Covid. Will self-isolate.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  904. Biden to Crow Bronze Star recipient:
    Tell me! Tell me who the hell that is! Tell me who put NATO back together. Name me a foreign leader who thinks I’m not the most effective leader in the world on foreign policy. Tell me! tell me who the hell that is!
    Tell me who put NATO back together! Tell me who enlarged NATO, tell me who did the Pacific Basin! Tell me who put NATO back together! Tell me who did something you’ve never done with your Bronze Star like my son- and I’m proud of your leadership but guess what, whats happening, we’ve got Korea and Japan working together, I put AUKUS together, anyway! Things are in chaos, and I’m bring some order to it. And again, find me a world leader who is an ally of ours who doesn’t think I’m the most respected person they’ve ever—-”

    My comments
    Putin put NATO back together
    Putin enlarged NATO
    Not sure who did what to the Pacific, but I’d guess China was the reason for the movement
    Not sure why Biden brought the Bronze Star or his son into it
    Not sure (nor is anyone) what the heck AUKUS is or was
    Things are in chaos because nature abhors a vacuum
    Biden is delusional if he thinks world leaders look to him with anything be concern- and he is delusional

    steveg (5521ca)

  905. repairs
    Biden is delusional if he thinks world leaders look [at] him with anything but concern- and he is delusional

    steveg (5521ca)

  906. Since I have little believe the democrats are getting anything other than the not-f’ing-Trump votes, maybe this is a time for a Unity ticket. I’ve said it weekly for months, you only need to lose fewer votes from last time than the other guy to win, if this keeps you at 2% vs 3%, that would probably do it.

    I don’t see any triangulation of picking Whitmer for Michigan’s vote, or Warnock for GA as being a bad option, but it would be nice if there were a few folks that voted for you, not just against the other guy.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  907. Trump Campaign on VP Debate:

    “We don’t know who the Democrat nominee for Vice President is going to be, so we can’t lock in a date before their convention.
    To do so would be unfair to Gavin Newsom, JB Pritzker, Gretchen Whitmer, or whoever Kamala Harris picks as her running mate.”

    steveg (5521ca)

  908. AUKUS is the Australia, UK, US alliance in the Pacific that NZ, Japan, and Canada are looking to join, basically Five Eyes countries + Japan. India and South Korea might join as well, but Japan really wants to sell some of their missiles to us and Australia, and we want them, so there’s a bit of a quid pro quo.

    I’m indifferent on Canada, but the others do form a nice counterweight to China in the Pacific. I’d swap Canada for Peru or Chile, both would be nice, but none of them would be very involved outside of basing, and we’d have that covered. But it would be nice to have some non-English speaking countries in the boat too, SK and Japan would be critical, they have robust industry in the Defense sector too.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  909. “We don’t know who the Democrat nominee for Vice President is going to be, so we can’t lock in a date before their convention.
    To do so would be unfair to Gavin Newsom, JB Pritzker, Gretchen Whitmer, or whoever Kamala Harris picks as her running mate.”

    Heh, nice.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  910. Thank Col.

    I’m so old I was thinking he might have meant ANZUS, or maybe he had a pre-covid cough AUKUS!

    steveg (5521ca)

  911. The compact is badly written

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09) — 7/17/2024 @ 2:44 pm

    The compact is being taken too seriously.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  912. WSJ on Usha Vance. Perhaps a puff piece, but God knows the other kind is also available.

    A number of things that humanize Senator Vance:

    Friends say that in many respects Usha Vance’s career was on the front burner then as she made her way up through a series of prestigious federal court clerkships. In his book, JD Vance said his mentor Amy Chua, a Yale law professor and author of “Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother,” encouraged him to withdraw from consideration for a prestigious clerkship that would have required him to move thousands of miles. “This clerkship is the type of thing that destroys relationships,” he recalled her saying.

    Usha Vance started her job as a Supreme Court clerk a month after giving birth to their first son, according to a 2017 interview with NBC News. “He was incredibly supportive of her when she was clerking,” Katie Wellington, who clerked for Kavanaugh with Usha Vance, said of JD Vance.

    Usha Vance has spent much of her career at [Charlie] Munger, Tolles & Olson, a firm that co-founded a child-care center for its employees and that a trade publication once described as “progressive—perhaps radically progressive.” She was listed on the firm’s website as a litigator in its San Francisco and D.C. offices until her resignation [Monday].

    Also:

    Usha Vance doesn’t talk much about her political views but says her husband hasn’t changed his despite having once been a vocal Trump critic. More recent Ohio voter rolls list her party affiliation as Republican.

    “The truth is I’ve known him now for so many years and he’s always been so true to himself,” she said in an interview with the conservative outlet Newsmax during his Senate run. “The JD that I met back in law school is the JD that I’m sitting next to right now.”

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  913. Neocon NeverTrumper Max Boot Lectured Us for Years About Patriotism and National Security.
    Then His Deep State Wife Started Spying for South Korea in Exchange for Designer Bags and Clothes.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  914. @kevin@916 my previous car was a Civic, dear God the road noise was bad.

    Nic (120c94)

  915. @934 NJRob, too funny. Too funny!! Max Boot will keep his gigs, for sure. Because it’s about Truth. Nevertrump is having a really bad week LOL

    lloyd (095ab4)

  916. @kevin@916 my previous car was a Civic, dear God the road noise was bad.

    Everything was bad, but I loved that car.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  917. Washington Post, Boot’s employer:

    In another instance, prosecutors allege, Terry received a call from a Korean Foreign Ministry official in March 2023. After the call, Terry texted the official, “So for me to write an op ed, I need the following information,” and provided questions about Korea-Japan relations.

    The official provided answers to the questions the next day, according to the indictment. That afternoon, an opinion piece — which did not disclose Korean government involvement — ran on The Post’s website. Boot was a co-author of the piece.

    “The article was broadly consistent with the responses” sent by the Korean official, according to the indictment. Terry later wrote in a text message to the official, “Hope you liked the article.” He later responded: “Thank you so much for your zeal and endeavors! Of course we do. Actually, Ambassador and National Security Advisor were so happy for your column.”

    Boot has not been charged with a crime. He did not reply to a request for comment.

    lloyd (e5100a)

  918. Director Cheatle- locking down the barn after the horse is out- was at the RNC an a group of Republican Senators started peppering her for answers. Evidently they had asked questions immediately and expected some responses by now, were a little put off she’d made TV appearances rather than answer their questions. Her bodyguards formed a wedge and closed the Senators off and they were pissed off that she “has better security from us [Senators] than Trump had in Butler County.” Bad look for her.
    She really can’t explain some things well. Roof sloped? not much. Building including rooftop was “secured from the inside”. How do you secure a rooftop from the inside?
    She’ll find another job in “security”, probably with a big party donor, but my goodness she is bad at handling this.

    steveg (5521ca)

  919. Elon Musk has been ribbing her about her previous experience being “guarding cheetos” but by securing a rooftop “from the inside? what is inside with the security detail? Water, coffee, maybe fruit and some snacks. Nobody was getting to those goodies without a fight.

    steveg (5521ca)

  920. Biden has covid democrats get out! Republicans stay in!

    asset (01b58d)

  921. I had an 89 Honda CRX Si living in Pacific Heights, a car you needed to rev to 4k to take off going up and over Fillmore or down Broadway. Still loved that little thing, and I could fit with me and a 340lb 49’ers lineman in it. Getting over a hill was a bit more difficult since him and I weighed as much as the car.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  922. Max Boot’s wife stopped working for the CIA (as an analyst) in 2008. Became a spy.foreign aet in 2013, She was warned in 2014,

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  923. I read the relevant chunks of the opinion, whembly, I just don’t agree with her. The US Code gave the AG the authority, and subsequent regs narrowed its scope. But FTR, IANAL, and neither are you.

    Paul Montagu (d4d407)

  924. 194. Also RIP

    Actor Bob Newhart, 94

    Mendacious political commentator and Trump supporter Lou Dobbs, 78

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  925. #945

    Paul

    You seem like “Not Trump” and not inline with the recent rulings on Presidential immunity. If not let me know.
    Is part of that due to a fear that Trump is an authoritarian and will misuse immunity to uncheck Executive powers?
    If so, why wouldn’t you want the Executive’s AG to be checked in his power, particularly when prosecuting a political rival of the current President- particularly if procedures are not followed to the letter? As the article linked that you mentioned, the AG could have simply cured the defect but chose not to/ My opinion is that by curing the defect, they’d be relinquishing the power they’ve encroached onto from the other branch. They’ve got squatters rights or better, a prescriptive easement on it, and don’t want to give it up.

    If people are so afraid of Trump they want to weaken Executive immunity forevermore, then why suddenly are they all in on Executive branch AG not having to follow all procedures when prosecuting a former President who is currently running against the AG’s boss for acts done during and after office? The answer usually is some version of “well other people got away with it before”

    Its politically charged because of Trump and election year.
    There is some new legal ground being crossed here because of the above
    A ruling in favor of Garland here gives the AG / Executive branch a poorly checked power (or unchecked power) forever more. I want the AG and Executive to have trouble prosecuting political rivals- even if it is for good reasons. I want them to have to follow everything to a “t”.

    steveg (749597)

  926. Ben Sasse is stepping down from the office of President of the University of Floria due to wife’s health.

    https://x.com/BenSasse/status/1814093534078878056

    norcal (8f4c08)

  927. People in Democratic Party, maybe trying to build a bandwagon effect predict Biden to quit maybe as early as Saturday or Monday although they admit Biden hasn’t decided and maybe wants to wait till his Covid infection is over. They talk about negotiating details. If Biden quits the race, they say he likely will not endorse anybody.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  928. Referring to the crime committed against the 12-year old as a “relationship” is a pathetic attempt to minimize the vile behavior of a man who stood at a pulpit for decades instructing others how to live while covering up his own heinous behavior.

    Traditional religion opposes premarital and extramarital sex – there is no age limitation except perhaps for puberty, so it was natural for the church to look at the fact this was outside of marriage rather than this was a case of a man taking advantage of a woman (which could also happen in age appropriate relationships) also happen and negatively affecting her sexuality and relationships with men (which popular culture does not talk much about and even seems to find trouble with the basic idea, although people can know it – but they have also trouble with a lot of things popular culture accepts)

    Besides this continued past the point when she became an adult, and they only found out about it years later. They did not know the victim’s age when it started. So it was reasonable for them to look at the absence of a marriage ceremony rather than when and how it began.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  929. steveg (749597) — 7/18/2024 @ 5:00 pm

    Seems like you’re conflating separate issues regarding presidential immunity asserted by the president and the authority given to the AG by Congress.
    On the former, I most agree with Coney Barrett regarding official acts outside core Constitutional responsibilities.
    On the latter, 28 USC 533 is textually clear to me, i.e., the AG may appoint officials to conduct such other investigations regarding official matters under the control of the Department of Justice and the Department of State as may be directed by the Attorney General, and these were powers accorded to the AG by law.

    Paul Montagu (383f45)