Patterico's Pontifications

6/27/2024

“The Debate” Open Thread

Filed under: General — Dana @ 7:07 pm



[guest post by Dana]

If you’re planning to watch, you can catch it here:

The debate will begin at 9 p.m. Eastern and will take place at a CNN studio in Atlanta.

CNN has offered to let other networks carry the debate feed; ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox News Channel, MSNBC, PBS and C-SPAN will all do so.

And if you get bored, you can always play a drinking game!

—Dana

222 Responses to ““The Debate” Open Thread”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (917e26)

  2. Dana, you’re usually so on time! Thanks for all the work you do here.

    Nate (cfb326)

  3. Shoot. Reading my comment, “Thanks for all the work you do here,” comes off as possibly sarcastic because of the antecedent. It was not. I really do appreciate the work you do keeping this blog running.

    Nate (cfb326)

  4. Well, that’s as far as I got. 1:15 into the thing I had to stop.

    Takeaways: Both performed well, graded on the curve of who they are.

    Trump: Unable to leave an issue and move on. Not terribly concerned with facts, not terribly good at making his point. Definitely not a wonk and evaded wonkish questions (e.g. child-care). He seems to be more concerned with opportunity and choice than Biden, uninterested in myriad government programs, and less willing to be a doormat overseas.

    Biden: Clear difficulty in long answers. Unable to discuss an issue without diving into minutia, even when they just confuse, sometimes himself. Everything needs a government program or government money. He distrusts people to make decisions for themselves. A consensus builder to a fault. He actually said that the Afghanistan withdrawal was a plus.

    In short, I learned nothing. Trump was far better behaved with the microphone turned off, but still came off like TalkRadio. Biden seemed more alert than he has seemed recently. He was cogent, but seemed to struggle at times and lost his train of thought noticeably.

    In the end, what are my choices: Bigger government, higher taxes, cradle-to-grave swaddling. Or what appears to be helter-skelter change, with a view towards individual liberty. At least for some.

    Bah. They never asked why either of them thought they should be running when half of America thinks neither should.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  5. Drinking game does not work for me. Maybe Russian roulette.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  6. I always read your comments, Kevin (drunken confession: I skip some of the posts by some of the commentators here (here’s looking at you asset)), and these I agree with completely.

    Nothing about this debate changed my opinion about either of the candidates (both did almost exactly what I expected) but boy did it make me sad (and drunk).

    Unless something drastic changes I’m voting for Sleepy Joe (the alternative is worse and it’s not close), but boy does it make me sad.

    Nate (cfb326)

  7. No worries,Nate. Life got busy, so I was late.

    Dana (917e26)

  8. No one’s said it here yet but: Trump won.

    Trump’s a liar. Biden’s (a less egregious) liar. But Trump came off better to low information voter.

    Nate (cfb326)

  9. I weep for our nation.

    Simon Jester (80afcf)

  10. CNN calls for Biden to step down.

    Joe (d57c55)

  11. No one’s said it here yet but: Trump won.

    I said it on the other thread 19 minutes into the debate.

    lurker (c23034)

  12. Lied like a rug but with fire in the belly. Joe is a cipher.

    JRH (53c854)

  13. NYT:

    Biden’s performance tonight was indeed quite bad, but it should not have been much of a surprise to anyone who has watched the 81-year-old president in public throughout his term. His campaign is already spinning that on the issues Biden did better than Trump, but the question is how many voters will simply see Biden as someone who is not physically capable of running the country.

    Dana (917e26)

  14. #10, link?

    Dana (917e26)

  15. Trump’s a liar. Biden’s (a less egregious) liar

    Biden has always been an excellent liar. I remember his debate with Palin, when she (correctly) claimed that Article I was about the Legislature and he said what a ninny, Article I is about the Executive, and got away with it.

    These days he has trouble remembering which lies don’t work any more.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  16. No one’s said it here yet but: Trump won.

    For some very small values of winning. What he may have done is forced the Democrats to replace their nominee. And not with Kamala either.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  17. It was like watching a Jerry Springer show at the rest home.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  18. @ Dana (917e26) — 6/27/2024 @ 8:33 pm

    No link, it was the live discussion after the debate. And i will concede that it was not explicitly said. More of a read between the lines.

    Joe (d57c55)

  19. I was watching the focus groups of the double haters, they seem to be universally believe that this debate was a farce. They hated Trump, but most of them that didn’t like Biden for more of the fact that they didn’t know if he’d make it, some felt sorry for him. Bad news for Biden, maybe worse news for Trump.

    One guy said hell no, for Trump and oh no for Biden, but he’ll vote for anyone on the D-team against Trump. He was a McCain (R). I’m with him.

    Claire McCaskill?

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  20. Jill Biden is 8 years younger but seems like she’s 20. Biden looks significantly worse than 4 years ago. He’s not Trump so he gets my vote.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  21. I’m with him.

    Who was the last Republican presidential candidate you voted for?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  22. He’s a Democrat so he gets my vote.

    FIFY

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  23. That isn’t to say that folks should vote for Trump, but when a card-carrying Democrat partisan says he is sadly going to vote for the Democrat, I check my wallet.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  24. Sure, a conservative voting against a criminal who happens to be a Republican is a Democrat.

    I’ve been voting dem…oh, wait, I voted D zero times until Trump. Back when Republicans were conservative, not crims, fraudsters, conmen, not pro-Russian…

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  25. In early 2007, I called Dad and asked him if he would invite President Vladimir Putin of Russia to Walker’s Point (the Bush family home in Kennebunkport, Maine),” Bush writes in his new book 41: A Portrait Of My Father….

    … Former president George H.W. Bush was thrilled to process the request. “Just let me know what you need, son,” he said.

    “When Putin arrived on July 1, 2007, Dad met his plane at the airport in New Hampshire and accompanied him on the helicopter ride to Walker’s Point. Then he took both of us for a speedboat ride,” Bush writes.

    George W. Bush describes the time he went fishing with Putin

    BuDuh (4214e4)

  26. Big winner of the night was Robert Hur and now we know why the audio of his interview with Biden is a state secret.

    steveg (71265a)

  27. Who was the last Republican presidential candidate you voted for?

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/27/2024 @ 9:03 pm

    We haven’t had a republican presidential candidate since 2008

    Dustin (1eabe0)

  28. He’s not Trump so he gets my vote.

    Ditto.

    Dana (917e26)

  29. I think that the real reason for the media tears is not that Oz is crumbling down, but that the curtain was swung back revealing to the masses the truth.

    The people acting like this was a Dave Dravecky broken arm scenario are the ones that I weep for. This has been going on for some time, Biden didn’t suddenly break right this moment. Who in the hell is actually shocked?

    BuDuh (4214e4)

  30. Anybody but Trump.

    I was for Nikki, still for Nikki. Dump Trump at the convention and she wins in a landslide.

    Dump Biden, and that would probably win, but it won’t take a vote away from Trump. Trump won’t get any more votes this time than the last, or the one before that. He hasn’t received more votes yet.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  31. The sad thing is there was nothing new here tonight. Biden has been progressively looking older and older (conservatively) for the last two years. Anyone with any marketing sense would understand that this is an impossible sell…but particularly so in a narrow race. And even though those with a preference for Democrat policy will hang to the end, there will be a lot of Never-Trumpers and independents who voted Biden in 2020 who will either swing to Trump or not vote. Biden loses.

    And if that’s the only debate….it won’t be close electorally. Biden had a narrow lane of fitness, tone, and being in the Overton Window. He couldn’t prosecute the case on the biggest stage…and now has months trying to make excuses for it. The cake has been baked. The impressions about immigration, inflation, crime, drugs, age, and Afghanistan incompetence means he cannot seem slow, doddering, and unable to answer the bell. He looked and sounded awful…really, the only person who could make Trump look good.

    Biden will be pressured to drop out. The question will be who best to replace him at this historical 11th hour….and will he listen. I see Newsom, Whitmer, Harris, and maybe someone like Roy Cooper being the only pols with a shot. Do any of them have enough national cache to elevate? Harris has been a punchline and was not groomed to elevate. Newsom seems horribly handicapped by heading a very liberal state which could be the poster child for immigration insanity. People will bring up Michelle Obama but I’m not sure she has the skill set to neutralize Trump. She can’t magically master rhetorical and policy skills overnight.

    But a change is coming because Trump’s unfitness is still very much on display….ducking the hard questions on Ukraine, J6, and his planned tariffs. ..among other matters. If it’s existential, then Biden is not able to make that case. He should have dropped out by the end of last summer. Our allies and adversaries are watching….and are either startled or quite happy with that debate. As a country, we cannot roll with more of that…

    AJ_Liberty (afa1a7)

  32. Megyn Kelly said Roger Ailes once told her to go back and rewatch things like a debate with the sound off to see who won. I am guessing Ailes meant with CC off as well. I wish I’d heard about watching it that way before seeing the “worst of” clips.
    That said, I did rewatch those clips without sound and in some ways that is even worse for Biden.
    Wonderful to see Gavin Newsom grease his way on the media post debate stage and I look forward to the intellectual gymnastics of “Contortionist nevertrump but CONSERVATIVES for Gavin”. If it is Gavin vs. Donald the choice with be between a trump with all his baggage who occasionally bungles his way into doing the right thing vs. a guy who has never done the right thing in his life and isn’t about to start now. Or maybe Trump gets the “his stink will wear off in 4-5 years, Gavin’s stink could last 8-9” voters

    My advice to truly principled nevertrump conservatives is to sit out a Gavin/Donald election

    steveg (71265a)

  33. I was for Nikki, still for Nikki. Dump Trump at the convention and she wins in a landslide.

    On this we agree. Sadly, it won’t happen unless Trump as a stroke in the next month.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  34. Whitmer/Beshear

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  35. This will put pressure on Trump’s VP choice. We’ll see what the Dems do next week, but if Joe is going to step down, he needs to do so yesterday. Literally.

    The WSJ is lauding Trump for not appearing insane. What a low bar.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  36. This debate definitely proved one thing: Everyone owes Robert Hur an apology

    SaveFarris (0930b3)

  37. Peggy Noonan (never MAGA) says this:

    Beyond that I doubted we’d learn anything, because I doubted whether either candidate had the ability to expand on his known persona. Joe Biden has moments of blurted thought, but could he really sustain a thought or make an argument that coheres over two minutes? Could he suddenly show command, a true grasp of his own positions?

    Could Donald Trump demonstrate that returning him to power wouldn’t be a wholly irresponsible act? Could he make any dent in the doubts, grounded in history, as to his nature and character? This wasn’t a question about whether he’s grown but about whether he can control himself.

    Still, as a national event the early debate would function as the formal kickoff of the campaign, replacing Labor Day. And it would make clear how each candidate intends to present himself and his issues the next four months. So maybe it would be more consequential than I anticipated.

    It was in fact as consequential as any presidential debate in history, and the worst night for an incumbent in history. It was a total and unmitigated disaster for Mr. Biden. It was a rout for Mr. Trump. It wasn’t the kind of rout that says: If the election were held tomorrow Donald Trump would win. It was the kind of rout that says: If the election were held tomorrow Donald Trump would win in a landslide.

    It is impossible to believe that the Democrats will continue with Mr. Biden as their presidential standard-bearer. They are going to have to do what they fear to do: make themselves uncomfortable, reveal their internal splits and brokenness, and admit what the rest of the country can see and has long seen, that Mr. Biden can’t do the job. They have to stop being the victim of his vanity and poor judgment, and of his family’s need, and get themselves a new nominee.

    (emphasis hers)

    But read the whole thing.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  38. Biggest loser was Joe Scarborough’s last shred of credibility

    steveg (71265a)

  39. I think Noonan is kind of right in some details, but wrong about the big picture.

    The people that are 100% not Trump are still not Trump. Nothing he did in the debate improved his intangibles. Now there were the folks that were probably not-Trump that Biden needed to keep, not from voting for Trump, but actually voting, or actively not going for a write-in, like my neighbor’s cat, or 3rd party (not RFKjr). Biden failed in that.

    All Trump has to do to win is not lose as many voters as Biden in the swing states. He’s definitely going to lose votes, but if 3% fewer vote, and he only loses a third, that’s enough to swing the EC to him.

    It was always a fight to lose less than the other guy, and that’s where we are, Biden has lost more than Trump. Sane R choice wins big against Biden, sane D wins big against Trump.

    Unfortunately, this will be a vote against someone, not for them.

    2028 can’t come soon enough.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  40. Gavin Newsom will feather his nest and his cronies nests to a level that will make trump look like he took a vow of poverty, but Gavin will be polished and use vocabulary when he empties the treasury. Newsoms plan to lower crime statistics is to stop taking reports. His plan to reform and rehabilitate criminals is to redefine their crimes as “not crimes” and give everyone at corrections a rubber stamp and some ink that says so. Have a listen to Gavin’s State of the State of CA “Dark Forces of MAGA ruining CA” speech and realize Newsom is only slightly less looney than Alex Jones but will be leading 330,000,000 more people than Alex. Newsom will also be a bigger scofflaw than Trump- we like to say the court appointments of Biden are disastrous, but Newsoms will be far to the left of those and will scoff at the constitution.

    Newsom is a far greater danger to the US than Trump

    steveg (71265a)

  41. Since RFK Jr cannot win, voting for him is the best way to signify displeasure, both with the two candidates but with the two parties that offered up this clusterfrack.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  42. Newsom is a far greater danger to the US than Trump

    Simply by putting all the state’s illegals on the Medicaid rolls in the face of a $50 billion deficit (in a state that cannot run deficits) while playing a shell game with the numbers to pretend to balance things, Newsom has proven two things:

    1. He has utterly no compunctions about lying through his teeth to get over on the People, and

    2. A balanced-budget amendment (CA has one) isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  43. 2028 can’t come soon enough.

    Congress should pass a law to skip 2025-2027

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  44. Some talking head on CNN said the Presidency is the hardest job in the world. Horsefeathers. After watching the debate, it should be apparent that the people surrounding Biden are the ones running the country.

    norcal (809d41)

  45. Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 6/27/2024 @ 9:09 pm

    My apologies then, Colonel. I gained an impression that was obviously unwarranted.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  46. We haven’t had a republican presidential candidate since 2008

    IIRC, you were for Gingrich in 2012, but I thought you were OK with Romney in the end.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  47. This has been going on for some time, Biden didn’t suddenly break right this moment. Who in the hell is actually shocked?

    Yeah, it’s kind of “Whaddaya know, the Emperor has no clothes!”

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  48. So who do you guys think will replace Mr. Biden as the candidate against President Trump? Mr. Newsom, Mrs. Clinton, Mrs. Obama or somebody else? 🙂

    Towering Barbarian (1fdce5)

  49. Elections clwarly mean nothong anynore. The will of the people be damned.

    We are dictated to by an unelected bureaucracy.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  50. I haven’t read the above comments, so this may have already been said, but Biden’s primary goal was to persuade America that he’s not old for the job, and he failed miserably.

    This is a Break Glass In Case Of Emergency situation for the Donkey Party. RBG held on way past her sell-by date, and the Dems paid a dear price, but they learned exactly nothing from that. If they were smart, and I doubt they are, they’ll pick a new nominee at the convention, and it better not be Kamala.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  51. After watching the debate, it should be apparent that the people surrounding Biden are the ones running the country.

    It should have been apparent years ago. I weep for the mainstream media faithful.

    BuDuh (4214e4)

  52. Charles C. W. Cooke
    @charlescwcooke
    36m
    They lied to us about Biden. We knew they were lying to us. They knew we knew they were lying to us. They lied anyway. That they’ve stopped lying for a moment because it’s become impossible to sustain does not change that. Remember who they were next time. nationalreview.com/corner/re…

    Cooke may be surprised at how many people apparently did not know they were being lied to and last night’s performance was their first clue.

    BuDuh (4214e4)

  53. Scott Jennings retweeted

    Bobby LaValley
    @Bobby_LaVallley
    9h
    .@ScottJenningsKY: “We have been told for weeks, weeks, by Democrats who say, oh, in private meetings, I’ve seen Joe Biden do cartwheels and handstands while doing trigonometry while solving all the nation’s problems. We now know that every single person who said that has been lying to the American people.”

    Yes… but they told the truth about disinfectants. 🙄🤪😂

    BuDuh (4214e4)

  54. Lies and momentum have carried Trump for nine years. In Biden’s case, inertia (not momentum) is the more apt word, but either way the train wreck is inevitable.

    Will giving Donnie a cookie prevent the train wreck? There is no reason to believe that it will. Sorry, Donnie, still no cookie for you. And I have not forgotten that only you could have gotten me to vote for Biden and Harris in the first place.

    nk (9157fa)

  55. Speaking of handing out cookies, here is Jill giving Joe his:

    “Great Job. You answered every question.”

    Yay! Baby’s first steps!

    BuDuh (8df1cf)

  56. The problem is most of us live in media bubbles of our own choosing. The debates were one time when people took the opportunity to step out of that bubble and see the apparent reality of the candidates.

    And Biden was an old man who sounded like an old man and had a hard time, initially, making his points. Biden’s task of the debate was to sound not senile. He blew that in the first 20 minutes and by the time he got rolling, it was too late. He returned to old man status for his closing.

    Trump, in the meantime, opened up the floodgates of nonsense in a way that was seemingly forceful. The format kept him at his podium and shut him up. Ironically, that helped him. When your opponent is busily fouling up, it’s best to stand back and let him do it. Trump has never before shown a capacity for doing that, but the format kept him from doing anything else.

    If people vote for Trump because Biden is frail and old and doddering — we’ll point to this debate as the turning point. That’s still an if not a when. But I don’t see when Biden gets another chance to reach people in the news bubbles that usually exclude him. The September debate? The Democratic convention? I doubt it.

    Unfortunately, I really don’t see Biden bailing from the race. If he does, the candidate at this late date is Kamela. She’s got the intersectionality down, but has never succeeded in a national campaign. The Dems have done a poor job of grooming the next bunch.

    Appalled (b73db7)

  57. America has survived senile old men and Californians (one of them in the same person) before. But in the end, even that is irrelevant. Trump must not win. That’s all that matters.

    nk (9157fa)

  58. Trump must not win. That’s all that matters.

    Would you stuff ballot boxes to ensure that?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  59. If the Democrats cannot man up and dump both Biden and Harris, then they are putting personal privilege (or slavish loyalty) before country, and inevitably before party. They are then no better than Cruz and the rest of Trump’s bootlickers.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  60. Supreme Court invalidates current use of “obstruction of official proceeding” affecting J6 cases.

    The court holds that to prove a violation of the law, the government must show that the defendant impaired the availability or integrity for use in an official proceeding of records, documents, objects, or other things used in an official proceeding, or attempted to do so.

    The court reverses the D.C. Circuit, which had adopted a broader reading of the law to allow the charges against Fischer to go forward. The case now goes back to the D.C. Circuit — which, the court says, can assess whether the indictment can still stand in light of this new and narrower interpretation.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  61. Above from Scotusblog. Full decision in Fischer v US

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  62. Oh, and they overturned Chevron.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  63. Suddenly, Trump’s claims that many of the J6 defendants were wrongly convicted is literally proven true.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  64. Would you stuff ballot boxes to ensure that?

    No.

    And I will not start a rumor that Trump is dating Jodie Foster now that John Hinckley is out of the booby-hatch, either.

    nk (9157fa)

  65. NY Times op-ed writers say Trump won. Vote: 10-0-2

    Kristoff, Krugman, Friedman and Bruni all say Biden must drop out.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  66. @65:

    So, something else does matter. Which was my point. But I’d have no problem with that rumor.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  67. If you watched the debate — I didn’t — you should study Glenn Kessler’s fact check on the debate.

    Here’s his summary:

    In the contentious first presidential debate between President Biden and former president Donald Trump, Trump confidently relied on false assertions that have been debunked repeatedly. Biden, in what was viewed as a faltering performance, stretched the truth on occasion.

    (Links omitted.)

    I must admit that I have felt sorry for Kessler, since the Loser came on the political scene. It’s like being a police chief when an immense crime wave hits your city.

    Jim Miller (0db57a)

  68. Jim, watching the debate is everything. Fact-checking is always suspect as the fact-checker generally believes some false things from the Left. Biden said some outrageous lies, too. Hesaid other things which might just have been befuddlement, but were patently untrue.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  69. Bari Weiss: They Knew
    https://www.thefp.com/p/bari-weiss-president-biden-debate-june-27

    Biden’s performance only affirms my decision to protest-vote. Both parties failed America with these nominees. It also affirms my prior comment that while Biden deserves to lose, Trump must lose.

    Paul Montagu (804263)

  70. If you watched the debate, you’d know just how terrible it was for Biden and how lucky it was for Trump. Also, Trump was speaking to the 100 IQ majority that doesn’t much care what pointy-headed elitists think.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  71. Paul,

    Someone said that the debate was like watching FDR on Dancing with the Stars. “Who knew?”

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  72. I don’t envy Dana creating the Open Thread.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  73. Monday will be the Supreme Court blow-off.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  74. Kristoff, Krugman, Friedman and Bruni all say Biden must drop out.

    Have they mentioned The 25th Amendment?

    There seems to be a growing consensus, amongst those who arrived on planet earth moments before the debate started, that Biden is unfit for a second term. That consensus is based on him being unfit this term. Are they going to do something about it?

    This is like catching a thief in your staff, but deciding to fire him months later.

    BuDuh (8df1cf)

  75. They are not worried that Biden is unfit. They are worried that Biden will lose. IF they could beat Trump with a senile old man, they’d have no problem with it. But it turns out they can’t get away with it.

    This is like having your hand caught in the cookie jar and blaming the jar.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  76. What I would like to know is who has been the acting president? In 1919 it was Mrs Wilson. Who has been deciding things for Joe?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  77. RCP Betting odds (President):

    55% Trump
    19% Biden
    10% Newsom
    5% Harris

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  78. Link

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  79. CNN has offered to let other networks carry the debate feed; ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox News Channel, MSNBC, PBS and C-SPAN will all do so.

    It was actually also on the regular FOX broadcast channel.

    And on radio, although there was a several second tape delay. I partially listened on the radio.

    It was also streaming on certain places.

    But there was a lot else to watch on TV, mostly reruns. Decades old reruns. There are over 60 broadcast channels in the New York City area that an antenna can find…

    Sammy Finkelman (e0dccb)

  80. General link to previous general election debate transcripts:

    https://www.debates.org/voter-education/debate-transcripts

    The page gives links to debates under the auspices of the Commission on Presidential Debates in partial reverse chronological order

    It includes:

    September 29, 2020: Presidential Debate

    October 07, 2020: Vice Presidential Debate

    October 22, 2020: Presidential Debate

    October 11, 2012: The Biden-Ryan Vice Presidential Debate

    (Biden demagogued on abortion I remember)

    October 2, 2008: The Biden-Palin Vice Presidential Debate

    Sammy Finkelman (e0dccb)

  81. Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/28/2024 @ 8:31 am

    What I would like to know is who has been the acting president? In 1919 [and 1920] it was Mrs Wilson. Who has been deciding things for Joe?

    Well, he’s not non compos mentis, so it’s probably his aides taking hints and going along with his instincts, and otherwise whoever is next in the chain of command.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  82. On CB last night I heard that for the first 45 minutes they got no response to the question of why Biden was so hoarse. Then they said he had a cold.

    For the next 45 minutes they asked why they didn’t say so, but got no response.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  83. One place where Trump accepted that Biden told the truth (because he is the only source for that) rather than that Biden lied:

    telling the Ukrainian people that, we’re going to want a billion dollars or you change the prosecutor. Otherwise, you’re not getting a billion dollars.

    There may be a word wrong in that transcript, or a word left out by Trump..

    Anyway, Biden never said that. He . said he said that. He claimed to be a Vice President with superpowers.

    Here’s the beta version: (from circa August, 2016 by the Atlantic magazine. Now, but not originally, behind a paywall so it’s accessible through the Internet Archive)

    https://web.archive.org/web/20170120100733/https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/08/joe-biden-interview/497633

    …I don’t go in and make demands. For example, [Ukraine President] Poroshenko, I pushed him on getting rid of a corrupt [prosecutor] general. We had committed a billion dollars, I said, “Petro, you’re not getting your billion dollars. It’s OK, you can keep the [prosecutor] general. Just understand—we’re not paying if you do.” I suspended it on the spot, to the point where our ambassador looked at me like, “Whoa, what’d you just do? Do you have the authority?” “Yeah, I got the authority. It’s not going to happen, Petro.” But I really mean it. It wasn’t a threat. I said, “Look, Petro, I understand. We’re not gonna play. It’ll hurt us the following way, so make your own call here.” The same with Erdogan…

    The second time, in the Q&A portion of an appearance in front of the Council on Foreign Relations on January 23, 2018.

    This was played to Trump, courtesy of Rudolph Giuliani (and probably ultimately, Vladimir Putin

    Ambassador to Estonia George Kent knows the truth about how that prosecutor was fired and that nothing resembling this dramatic confrontation – wither version – ever took place.

    https://www.cfr.org/event/foreign-affairs-issue-launch-former-vice-president-joe-biden

    …—I mean, I’ll give you one concrete example. I was—not I, but it just happened to be that was the assignment I got. I got all the good ones. And so I got Ukraine. And I remember going over, convincing our team, our leaders to—convincing that we should be providing for loan guarantees. And I went over, I guess, the 12th, 13th time to Kiev. And I was supposed to announce that there was another billion-dollar loan guarantee. And I had gotten a commitment from Poroshenko and from Yatsenyuk that they would take action against the state prosecutor. And they didn’t.

    So they said they had—they were walking out to a press conference. I said, nah, I’m not going to—or, we’re not going to give you the billion dollars. They said, you have no authority. You’re not the president. The president said—I said, call him. (Laughter.) I said, I’m telling you, you’re not getting the billion dollars. I said, you’re not getting the billion. I’m going to be leaving here in, I think it was about six hours. I looked at them and said: I’m leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you’re not getting the money. Well, son of a bitch. (Laughter.) He got fired. And they put in place someone who was solid at the time….

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  84. RFK Jr took part in the debate anyway. (he was in a studio with John Stossel and they played the debate part by part, pausing to give him a chance to speak (under the same or similar time constraints)

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rfk-jr-holding-own-debate-not-invited-to-trump-biden

    I think McGovern did something like that in 1972.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  85. Biden:

    This is a guy who says Hitler’s done some good things. I’d like to know what they are. The good things Hitler’s done, that’s what he said. This guy has no sense of American democracy.

    Trump didn’t deny this!
    his is a fact check by USA Today.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/06/27/did-trump-say-hitler-did-a-lot-of-good-things/74241433007

    Trump allegedly said this statement about Hitler during a 2018 trip to Europe to commemorate the 100th anniversary of the end of World War I, according to a report in the Guardian and the book, “Frankly, We Did Win This Election,” by Wall Street Journal’s Michael Bender.

    Trump denied this comment during an interview with Bender after he left office.

    According to Bender’s book, Trump’s comments came while his then-chief of staff, John Kelly, was briefing him on World War 1 history and reportedly told the former president that “you cannot ever say anything supportive of Adolf Hitler. You just can’t.”

    Kelly also shared this statement from Trump with CNN correspondent Jim Sciutto’s book The Return of Great Powers, published in Spring 2024.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  86. IIRC, you were for Gingrich in 2012, but I thought you were OK with Romney in the end.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/27/2024 @ 11:39 pm

    I was worse than that. At the time I supported Rick Perry, who was effective at working with a difficult legislature and running a state, albeit it was kinda a book. Gingrich was much better at dealing with hostile interviews, and would be effective in working with foreign leaders, however there is a lot to be said for someone who has served in the military and has been reelected as a governor. Those are two critical credentials for the presidency, and I’ve been consistent with that for over 25 years. I’ll note Desantis is even better, as a war veteran that the nevertrumpers (who are really just anti-conservatives) just hate so much.

    My problem with Romney was that he represented a burning of the bridge between coalitions that the GOP needed to be effective. Populists (tea party at the time), family values, and limited government/economic freedom/smart leadership. Romney, like Haley, is simply awful. Always has been, and always will be, completely empty. But because he has no core, he sounds great. It’s not even possible to condemn him in the context of the debate. Romney is obviously the reason things declined here. Without Romney, and without the bridge burning in 2012, there is no Trump. That’s what I warned about at the time, and frankly I told you so. Nominating Romney ended the GOP, and Trump is the predictable aftermath – a democrat caricature taking over the GOP.

    Haley was just a repeat. She ran a campaign to help Trump be nominated, by running attack ads on Desantis, more than Ross Perot’s entire campaign cost, and running them in states Haley wasn’t even trying to win. She was only trying to ensure Trump beat Desantis. Haley’s overt support of Trump lately was predictable, and as I recall you denied that would happen when scoffing that Haley was not really serious about being the nominee.

    She was trump’s administration and she wants to be again. Unlike Desantis, Haley was a very poor governor with no direction, known for getting on with Boeing, also a failure.

    But my mistake is trying to explain to y’all that Romney or Haley were burning the bridge. You guys are intentional, you want us, the normals, to see you destroy the better candidates. You want us to know that conservatism, and serious candidates, will be rejected by the GOP as a professional entity. You didn’t mind Trump being president, and shouldn’t complain if Trump wins, or if the democrats win.

    I don’t think Trump will win, but I do think the problems in the GOP will continue until the populist movement insists on some kind of reform to ballot access. There is no reason for the GOP and the democrats to enjoy the protection they have.

    Dustin (1eabe0)

  87. Ballot access reform needs to be coupled with irv or some other form of voting system reform or the duopoly lock will stay because of the need to vote against the worst evil.

    aphrael (79002d)

  88. Well said Dustin.

    NJRob (6c074c)

  89. Thanks, NJ

    Ballot access reform needs to be coupled with irv or some other form of voting system reform or the duopoly lock will stay because of the need to vote against the worst evil.

    aphrael (79002d) — 6/29/2024 @ 11:48 am

    Good point. I think that would help a lot. But the bar has fallen so much, with this ‘at least my horrific candidate is better than the other side’s’ trend. It has just fallen so far. A third choice against the worst and second worst evil is a lot more viable today than it was a few elections ago. I am imagining if Ross Perot was on the debate stage with those two idiots.

    The alternative parties tend to be fringey. We need an alternative party that is moderate. We need a party that wants to keep us safe with minimal intrusion into our lives. A party that just points out that whatever rando issue is asked about is simply not important enough to be in the top five priorities.

    Dustin (1eabe0)

  90. Romney, like Haley, is simply awful. Always has been, and always will be, completely empty. But because he has no core, he sounds great. It’s not even possible to condemn him in the context of the debate. Romney is obviously the reason things declined here. Without Romney, and without the bridge burning in 2012, there is no Trump. That’s what I warned about at the time, and frankly I told you so. Nominating Romney ended the GOP, and Trump is the predictable aftermath – a democrat caricature taking over the GOP.

    This is probably the worst comment you have ever posted. Every word is false.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  91. Ballot access reform needs to be coupled with irv or some other form of voting system reform or the duopoly lock will stay because of the need to vote against the worst evil.

    Multiple winner legislative districts with IRV would solve many problems; Political and/or racial gerrymanders, disaffection among excluded groups, unresponsive legislators, and would obviate the need for term limits as people move up.

    Triple the number of Congressfolk, and elect 3 from each district using IRV.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  92. I should also point out that politicians with fixed ideology (“a core”) who are unable to navigate change are most of our problem as they cannot compromise or accept partial wins.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  93. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13580793/joe-biden-donald-trump-debate-poll.html

    805 people polled for 1-2 word responses to two questions

    How did _________ make you feel during the debate?
    How did _________ come across during the debate?

    I posted this in another form on the other thread

    Of most interest to me was the stuff about Trump people must have brought with them to the debate

    How did Trump make you feel during the debate?
    These were the biggest negatives and they seem only marginally related to the onstage specifics
    Annoyed, Angry, Disgusted

    How did Biden make you feel during the debate?
    These were among the biggest overall reactions and seem connected to the onstage specifics
    Concerned, Scared, Worried, Bored.

    How did Trump come across during the debate?
    These were among the biggest overall reactions and seem connected to the onstage specifics
    Confident, Arrogant, Strong, Liar. (Trump is a liar and he lied during the debate, but the chart has him at LIAR which to me is in part due to battlefield prep by Democrats. They are pounding TRUMP/LIAR in the media BIDEN/Straight Talking Truth Teller, so I see this as skewing the results by adding baggage)

    These are the negatives about Trump during the debate that seem to have been brought from the baggage carousel
    Racist, Delusional, Dumb, Weak

    How did Biden come across during the debate?
    Baggage carousel answers
    Professional, Strong, Ready, Convincing

    steveg (33c23c)

  94. This is probably the worst comment you have ever posted. Every word is false.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/29/2024 @ 1:39 pm

    hahahahahaha

    Not it’s not. You’ve got to ease off the loyalty and see things from a distance. Haley tanked the GOP this year in service of Trump, and it was kinda obvious. She’s been a Trump friend for a long time. If Trump managed to win somehow, she will be in a very high position in his administration, as payment.

    Dustin (1eabe0)

  95. I agree about Haley, she is Trump’s handmaiden, but DeSantis is a coral snake without the pretty colors. Given the power, he would make Trump’s fascist daydreams a reality.

    nk (a63fc9)

  96. Hi Dustin

    Do you see Haley as Trump’s VP pick or?

    Given the scenario described there has to be a payday coming for Haley. VP nomination would the only sure return on her investment here as every other possible scenario involves Trump having to actually win, which is no sure thing.

    steveg (58963e)

  97. Interesting point, Steve.

    I actually guessed Secretary of State, due to Haley’s UN work, but I have no idea. Trump doesn’t really care about that position, and even considered giving it to Romney, at least to the extent Romney interviewed for it.

    Frankly Trump should pick Haley for VP. It’s a better choice than Rubio.

    Dustin (1eabe0)

  98. Trump has always been seen as holding VP pick close for maximum impact for Trump and to take none of the limelight off of Trump.
    Trump needs to ride this debate glitch as far and hard as he can without tipping the scales to far and winding up with a new opponent.
    I’d consider advice that says that naming a a VP soon could take the focus in the Democrat Party off of Joe. Joe will have other glitches and the media is going to be less apt to hide it.
    Trump needs a gravely wounded opponent right now, not a mortally wounded one. Well timed VP announcement if need arises, could be a tool to keep Joe in the race

    steveg (58963e)

  99. Dustin, is Haley for VP a better for Trump than Rubio? Female choice blunts a little of the “rapist” chatter and would get Haley at least something upfront.
    Or does it? Nothing is free in life and as YP nominee she will be excoriated as a self loathing, traitorous rape apologist. Haley might actually put more of a spotlight on Trumps problems with independent suburban women voters, not less.
    Tim Scott would be a safe choice who would make the conversation about race, not women. Scott probably brings in a few voters with him and loses next to none. Gives Trump a chance to go to a rally say “the media says my supporters are racists but I chose Tim Scott and you are all still here”
    Scott could do well against VP Harris in the VP debate and pick up voters even if he “loses”

    steveg (58963e)

  100. It should now be obvious to any sentient being that Trump’s Democratic opponent is Kamala Harris. Even if Biden makes it through the election, she will be sworn in as President on January 20. There is a mechanism in Article II for it.

    More than that I will not say.

    nk (b24796)

  101. Not it’s not. You’ve got to ease off the loyalty and see things from a distance. Haley tanked the GOP this year in service of Trump

    You’re channeling Sammy here, seeing things that aren’t there. As for loyalty, your postulate of “Only DeSantis can save the GOP” is pretty obvious.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  102. Frankly Trump should pick Haley for VP. It’s a better choice than Rubio.

    Perhaps. Whether she accepts will depend on how he’s doing in a month and whether the rest of the GOP demands she does it. Personally I think her most opportunistic move is to wait for 2028, as long as who he does pick is the usual fourth fiddle.

    Haley is a bad pick for Trump. She would show him up by being sane. She might resign if he gets too crazy. And she is the opposite of assassination/impeachment insurance.

    I think he’ll go for someone nuttier and more immoral than himself, like Ramaswamy, to ward off impeachment etc.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  103. Even if Biden makes it through the election

    I dunno. He hasn’t done the Big Shrink yet. But he won’t walk to his inauguration.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  104. Scott could do well against VP Harris in the VP debate and pick up voters even if he “loses”

    Low bar. But Scott did very poorly in the GOP debates, unable to think on his feet and relying on a few set positions which he repeated endlessly. Harris is incompetent but she’s not actually stupid, and she’s got a killer instinct that “nice guy” Scott doesn’t have.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  105. But Scott did very poorly in the GOP debates, unable to think on his feet and relying on a few set positions which he repeated endlessly.

    I say this after giving him money beforehand. Great disappointment.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  106. Ramaswamy might be so much of a nutbag that the 50k people who swing MI/GA/NV/AZ get scared enough to turn to not Trump. Those folks are already iffy, and a sane pick could keep them in the boat. So not Ramaswamy or Scott, Vance would be safest, Haley best. Rubio and Vance most likely, if Trump can get by their badmouthing him 9 years ago.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  107. Nixon went for Spiro Agnew and the bribery thing was no surprise to anyone.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  108. Agnew could coin a phrase though.
    His “nattering nabobs of negativism” about Democrats criticisms of Nixon was so good the media stole it and applied it to themselves

    steveg (58963e)

  109. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/08821127.2010.10677760

    The Myth of Spiro Agnew’s “Nattering Nabobs of Negativism”

    steveg (58963e)

  110. I’m expect a rash of “Trump is senile, too” news articles and op-eds from the usual suspects.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  111. It’s hard to accuse someone of senility when a farrago of lies they never even tried to keep consistent is all they ever had command of in the first place.

    lurker (c23034)

  112. Biden falsely claimed during a debate against former President Donald Trump on Thursday that he was “the only president in a century” who has not had any U.S. troops die or get killed anywhere in the world during his tenure. Alicia Lopez, mother of Cpl. Hunter Lopez — one of the 13 servicemembers who was killed during the botched Afghanistan withdrawal in 2021 — told the Daily Caller News Foundation that Biden’s comments were “sad” and said it was “time for a change” in White House leadership.

    “It’s a sad day in America when those who paid the ultimate price for our freedom are forgotten about. What I wouldn’t give for his statement to be true and for my child to walk through my door,” Lopez told the DCNF in a statement on Friday. “But the fact is my son and 17 others were killed under his watch.”

    “The families and friends of these amazing heroes will never forget. It is abundantly clear, and my hope is it’s clear to many more Americans now, that it is time for a change,” Lopez told the DCNF.”

    lloyd (b1b536)

  113. Dustin, you still haven’t offered any evidence for the theory — with all due respect I do contend it’s a conspiracy theory — that Haley’s candidacy wasn’t a sincere attempt to win the GOP nomination for herself, but was merely a collusive effort with Trump to defeat DeSantis. Who else do you think was privy to the plan? Her campaign staff? Fundraisers? Major contributors? Family? Trump’s people? And whatever your answers are, you think all those people kept the secret without a single leak? Or do you think only Haley and Trump were in on it, in which case Haley was deceiving, maybe even defrauding, all those staff, fund raisers, contributors, etc.?

    lurker (c23034)

  114. I’m expect a rash of “Trump is senile, too” news articles and op-eds from the usual suspects.

    I detest Trump, but he doesn’t seem to be any more senile now than before. He’s stupid, he’s a fraud, he’s a liar, he’s a conman, he’s a philanderer, but that has always been true.

    Biden’s troop death claim was ridiculous, both made completely false claims about terrorism during their tenure’s but Biden’s was obvious. His whole military answer was just a jumble, WW1/2, Beau, Trump and his suckers and losers quote all running into a stream of old man brain.

    Hundreds of soldiers die every year in aircraft crashes and training accidents. There’s not been an hour over the last 100 years where there hasn’t been US forces in active combat, either overtly or covertly, and no matter how good we are, we aren’t bullet proof, or can’t get hit by a car in Cairo.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  115. Dustin, you still haven’t offered any evidence for the theory — with all due respect I do contend it’s a conspiracy theory — that Haley’s candidacy wasn’t a sincere attempt to win the GOP nomination for herself, but was merely a collusive effort with Trump to defeat DeSantis. Who else do you think was privy to the plan? Her campaign staff? Fundraisers? Major contributors? Family? Trump’s people? And whatever your answers are, you think all those people kept the secret without a single leak? Or do you think only Haley and Trump were in on it, in which case Haley was deceiving, maybe even defrauding, all those staff, fund raisers, contributors, etc.?

    lurker (c23034) — 6/29/2024 @ 9:16 pm

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this frankly very obvious that happened.

    Dustin (1eabe0)

  116. (thing)

    Dustin (1eabe0)

  117. 1. Haley joins race
    2. ???
    3. Trump wins

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  118. Klink,

    I turned off the debate at 1:15 in. Biden wasn’t the reason as I was not very surprised he was struggling after the initial bump wore off. It was Trump’s performance, which would have been called poor were it not for Biden. He kept throwing out wild claims and outright lies when the truth would have served him better. Instead of reaching out to people, he just ranted.

    But Biden was just so terrible that Trump could have won reciting the alphabet.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  119. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this frankly very obvious thing that happened.

    It wouldn’t be the first time something very obvious has gone over my head, so I’ll stipulate I’m stupid if you’ll answer my questions.

    lurker (c23034)

  120. That’s what I saw too. I think it’s a race to who can lose fewer voters at this point.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  121. At this point, unless Biden drops out and probably even if he does, I don’t think it’s a race at all. Trump was already ahead in the Electoral College, and my guess is Thursday baked that in for good.

    I don’t put much stock in the protestations by everyone from Biden to Obama that Biden’s still in it to win it. They had to say that as an initial response. I won’t be surprised, once the dust settles, if he does stay in, and I won’t be surprised if he drops out. But if he stays I think he’s cooked. And if he drops out, for reasons I’ve given here before, I suspect his successor will be cooked as well by the Kamala intersectional math.

    In short:

    1. Biden can’t win.
    2. Kamala can’t win.
    3. Not Joe Not Kamala can’t win.

    lurker (c23034)

  122. I’ll be delighted to be proven wrong, but pretty much the only thing that possibility has going for it is my near perfect record of erroneous predictions since 2016.

    lurker (c23034)

  123. @123

    At this point, unless Biden drops out and probably even if he does, I don’t think it’s a race at all. Trump was already ahead in the Electoral College, and my guess is Thursday baked that in for good.

    I don’t put much stock in the protestations by everyone from Biden to Obama that Biden’s still in it to win it. They had to say that as an initial response. I won’t be surprised, once the dust settles, if he does stay in, and I won’t be surprised if he drops out. But if he stays I think he’s cooked. And if he drops out, for reasons I’ve given here before, I suspect his successor will be cooked as well by the Kamala intersectional math.

    In short:

    1. Biden can’t win.
    2. Kamala can’t win.
    3. Not Joe Not Kamala can’t win.

    lurker (c23034) — 6/29/2024 @ 11:19 pm

    My god the doomerism…

    I go away out of the country and come back… and it’s an eye-opening experience politically. (all expound later).

    But, this? No, it’s not a given that Trump’s ahead, as he has massive events coming that can tank him:

    1) The NY sentencing.
    2) 5 months till election is a lifetime away.
    3) The full force of the DNC/Biden/Media still hasn’t unleashed the warchest to pound the airwaves to remind voter how bad Trump truly is.
    4) He still has that DC Jack Smith case to contend with that he can add more charges (superseding indictments), no matter how the immunity case goes because he’s in such a favorable court.

    I truly thought Biden had ZERO chance to win in 2020.

    Now? Every negative known to both Biden/Trump is known. It’ll come down to which side can enthusiastically get their voters to actually vote OR some other momentous event that terminally destroys electoral chances.

    whembly (279d5e)

  124. Now? Every negative known to both Biden/Trump is known.

    When it comes to the Obama sept, I am with Socrates: Εν οίδα ότι ουδέν οίδα. I know only that I know nothing. (In Greek, it makes a similarly apt pun: Δεν ειδα οτι δεν ειδα. I did not see what I did not see.)

    It may very well be that we ain’t seen nothing yet. (Bachman Turner Overdrive.) And chances are that we never will. And I’m wondering whether we are still being played by this “revelation” at this point in time.

    nk (bdad6b)

  125. It may be that the GOP nominates Trump/VP without knowing who their opponent will be. Kinda like 1920. Hopefully a shorter process for the Dems.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  126. No, it’s not a given that Trump’s ahead, as he has massive events coming that can tank him

    Whether future events can change the race is unknowable, and as I said, I’m terrible at predicting, but it absolutely is a given that Trump’s ahead right now. As Jonah Goldberg just said on Twitter:

    The Biden team wanted and needed this debate to change the direction of the race, BECAUSE HE IS LOSING. He failed. […]

    As for your “massive events,” I doubt any sentence in the NY case will move the needle with anyone who wasn’t persuaded by the verdict alone. And there’s no way the Jack Smith trial will go to the jury before election day, if it’s even past jury selection.

    You’re right that 5 months is a long time, so I guess we’ll see. But the thing is, for many normies, that debate is the most attention they’ll pay to the campaign. That bell can’t be unrung.

    lurker (c23034)

  127. Increasing numbers of voters don’t think Biden should be running after debate with Trump

    For months before the first debate, the nation’s voters repeatedly expressed doubts over whether President Biden had the cognitive health enough to serve.

    Today, those doubts have grown even more: now at nearly three-quarters of the electorate, and now including many within his own party.

    And today, after the debate with former President Trump, an increased number of voters, including many Democrats, don’t think Mr. Biden should be running for president at all. Nearly half his party doesn’t think he should now be the nominee.

    Topline graphic

    54% of Democrats want him out

    More images at the top link

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  128. The bulk of my last should be quoted.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  129. Biden should do three things this week:

    In order…

    1. Withdraw from the race and release his delegates
    2. Make it clear that he will remain neutral in the Party’s choice
    3. Resign due to ill health.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  130. Biden should do three things this week:

    In order…

    1. Withdraw from the race and release his delegates

    2. Make it clear that he will remain neutral in the Party’s choice

    3. Resign due to ill health.

    :

    Biden should resign first, followed by withdrawing from the race and releasing his delegates. Whether he is neutral or not is immaterial, no one would want his support.

    The chances of any of this happening is only slightly higher than zero.

    Rip Murdock (c28559)

  131. Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/30/2024 @ 11:58 am

    1. Withdraw from the race and release his delegate

    If this is to work in terms of getting a better candidate, Kamala Harris also has to withdraw.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  132. Heard on CBS;s Face the Nation:

    In a poll, the percentage of people who think Biden is [mentally up to the job of being president] dropped from 35% to 27% after the debate. The percentage of people who think Trump is, is about 50%.

    Given all that, a slim 1% majority would still vote for Biden over Trump.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  133. I think Haley’s candidacy was a sincere attempt to win the GOP nomination for herself, but she was following the premise that she had to knock out DeSantis first to do so, and maybe the idea that there was a large floating anti-Trump Republican vote. She was probably following the advice of campaign consultants.

    They either didn’t think it through; were only trying to make her campaign last as long as possible so they could stay on the payroll, make as much commission on ads as possible etc; or perhaps they were colluding with oeople working for Donald Trump.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  134. If this is to work in terms of getting a better candidate, Kamala Harris also has to withdraw.

    Why-she didn’t receive any convention delegates. She would be eligible to be nominated by the convention like any other candidate. And if Biden resigns, as acting president she wouldn’t automatically become the nominee.

    If Biden were to drop out before he is scheduled to be formally nominated in August, it would create a free-for-all among Democrats, because there’s no mechanism for him or anyone else to anoint a chosen successor.

    It takes a majority of the roughly 4,000 pledged delegates to win the party’s nomination. Biden’s won 3,900 of them. Under recent reforms, the party’s more than 700 superdelegates — Democratic lawmakers and dignitaries — are allowed to vote only if no one wins a majority of pledged delegates on the first ballot, so their votes could be crucial in a contested convention.

    Democratic convention time machine-welcome to Chicago 1968.

    Rip Murdock (839852)

  135. I keep seeing Republican’s in Kentucky talking about how good Beshear would be as the Democratic nominee. I don’t see it, he’s quite young, 46, and getting in at this late date, even against such a terrible opponent, makes it a hard road. If they wait till the convention then it’s too late, it’s only a few of weeks from when early voting begins.

    Better to punt and hope for a defensive stand with time on the clock. [sportsball]

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  136. lurker (c23034) — 6/29/2024 @ 9:16 pm

    You make some good points. I’m a little surprised that Dustin did not address them.

    norcal (226e65)

  137. Kamala Harris needs to withdraw to create an open field. And someone else is needed, but if she does not withdraw it would be like a betrayal not to give her the nomination. Otherwise, she’d be the presumptive nominee (not because of any rules, but politically)

    But she’s not going to urge Joe Biden to withdraw because that would create an excuse to ask her to do so also.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  138. Rip Murdock (839852) — 6/30/2024 @ 1:18 pm

    Related:

    ………….
    It’s truly a desperate plan (to replace President Biden as the Democratic nominee) and one that features many hurdles. It would almost surely require Biden’s assent to step aside — he holds almost all of the pledged delegates to August’s Democratic National Convention — and even then the process for replacing him is fraught. It’s not even clear that an alternative would render the party better off.
    …………
    …………Let’s recap some of the names that have been floated — along with their attributes and drawbacks.

    1. Vice President Harris

    It’s difficult to see how Harris wouldn’t be the alternative unless she, too, voluntarily steps aside. She is, after all, the vice president. And skipping over the first female and first Black vice president would be dicey for a party struggling to maintain its normally huge margins with Black voters — a major part of its base.

    The problem is that Harris is about as unpopular as Biden is.………
    ………….

    2. Gretchen Whitmer

    ………….The Michigan governor combines being an actually plausible alternative with looking almost ideal on paper.
    ………….

    3. Pete Buttigieg
    ………….

    4. Josh Shapiro

    …………(The Pennsylvania governor) is quite popular in a crucial state for the Democratic ticket. Even more than 3 in 10 Trump supporters there like him, according to a poll this year………….

    5. Jared Polis
    ……….

    6. Gavin Newsom
    ……….
    ……….it’s difficult to see the Democratic Party deciding that the recipe right now is a California governor and former mayor of San Francisco, a city Republicans would be only so happy to run against by pointing to its crime problem. It would be basically inviting Republicans to caricature the Democratic ticket.

    7. Raphael G. Warnock
    ………..
    8. Michelle Obama

    This is the fantasy option for Democrats — and we mean that in more than one way. She would seem to be the ideal alternative for many, but she also seems unlikely to run.
    ………..
    ……….(S)he has professed basically no interest in running in her own right; going from that to waging a presidential campaign with just a few months to go is a huge stretch.
    ………

    9. Amy Klobuchar
    ………

    10. Andy Beshear
    ……….
    ……….(I)t’s not clear how he would play with liberal base voters whom Democrats need to inject with enthusiasm.
    #########

    Rip Murdock (839852)

  139. Kamala Harris needs to withdraw to create an open field. And someone else is needed, but if she does not withdraw it would be like a betrayal not to give her the nomination. Otherwise, she’d be the presumptive nominee (not because of any rules, but politically)

    Given the fact she is even more unpopular than Biden among voters, it is highly unlikely the Democratic super delegates would vote for her on the second or subsequent ballots. I doubt that a replacement candidate would win on the nomination on the first ballot; and I doubt she would make the top three candidates on the first. Let her be betrayed.

    Rip Murdock (839852)

  140. Last paragraph shouldn’t be in italics.

    Rip Murdock (839852)

  141. Last paragraph shouldn’t be in italics.

    Rip Murdock (839852) — 6/30/2024 @ 2:02 pm

    You don’t say.

    😛

    norcal (226e65)

  142. The last I heard, Kamala wasn’t that popular among blacks, so whence all the handwringing about picking somebody else?

    norcal (226e65)

  143. Rip Murdock (839852) — 6/30/2024 @ 1:55 pm

    Senator Mark would also be a possibility.

    Rip Murdock (839852)

  144. Correction:

    Senator Mark Kelly would also be a possibility.

    Rip Murdock (839852) — 6/30/2024 @ 2:07 pm.

    Rip Murdock (839852)

  145. If this is to work in terms of getting a better candidate, Kamala Harris also has to withdraw.

    Biden resigning is not about “getting a better candidate” but “getting a candidate.”

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  146. Democratic convention time machine-welcome to Chicago 1968.

    Or San Francisco, 1920 (44 ballots)

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  147. Democratic convention time machine-welcome to Chicago 1968.

    It was already going to be Chicago 1968 2024 with all the Hamas and “Progressive” protesting.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  148. It was already going to be Chicago 1968 2024 with all the Hamas and “Progressive” protesting.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  149. You make some good points. I’m a little surprised that Dustin did not address them.

    He also has a bit of a time-machine issue, what with DeSantis self-destructing before Haley was in the race.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  150. Kamala Harris needs to withdraw to create an open field.

    Uh, no. Biden releasing his delegates makes it an open field. She’s welcome to compete but she lost badly last time.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  151. It would be basically inviting Republicans to caricature the Democratic ticket.

    Well, it’s only fair, seeing as how Trump is a Democrat caricature of a Republican.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  152. As I understand it, the real convention will be on Zoom in order to accommodate Ohio. Chicago will be merely a Party rally.

    nk (76271c)

  153. After due consideration, HUNH?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  154. Dems are in paralysis by analysis mode, they just can’t get out of their own head. That is an advantage of the GOP today, not much analysis, much more seat of the pants.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  155. WASHINGTON — The Democratic National Committee has taken a significant step toward formally designating Joe Biden as the party’s presidential nominee before the Democratic convention in August — a move they’re making to place him on the Ohio ballot for November’s election, States Newsroom has been told.
    https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2024/06/21/exclusive-dnc-moves-ahead-on-all-virtual-roll-call-for-biden-presidential-nomination/

    No?

    nk (689e68)

  156. DNC has decided to move the actual nomination to late July because of Ohio’s deadline is 90 days before election.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  157. nk (76271c) — 6/30/2024 @ 3:27 pm

    As I understand it, the real convention will be on Zoom in order to accommodate Ohio. Chicago will be merely a Party rally.

    There will be a convention in Chicago, even with a fake roll call vote (for television) but the official act of nominating candidates will be done before The deadline is August 7.

    But all this is kind of being ignored, like it was still 1968, as is the usual filing of papers for a candidate that has now crept in or the (noficial) vetting of the vice presidential candidate, which means that about six weeks before a convention a new nominee picking a new vice president has to limit himself to no more than about half a dozen choices. And ever since 1976, the vice presidential nominee is announced ahead of the convention.

    Ohio’s law was passed about 15 years ago, but a special law was passed in the past allowing for late conventions.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  158. norcal (226e65) — 6/30/2024 @ 2:06 pm

    The last I heard, Kamala wasn’t that popular among blacks, so whence all the handwringing about picking somebody else?

    There’ll be all sorts of people who would prefer her for policy or personal reasons, and they’d have an argument that she’s entitled, or how does this make Biden or the democratic Party look?

    Biden was passed over in 2016, but he was basically tricked into not running. First he was advised that he had more time to decide (and he didn’t want to get into an active race in 2015 soon after his son died, and then that it was too late to start (raising money and hiring people)

    Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e)

  159. People here are wondering aloud why Biden doesn’t step aside and make Kamala Harris President. They are discussing this like it would be a great idea.
    One local went on about how well respected VP Harris is internationally, which would be striking news to everyone west and east of the CA coastal strip

    steveg (40d13a)

  160. Biden picking Kamala is right up there with McCain selecting Palin.

    norcal (226e65)

  161. The nut doesn’t fall far from the tree.

    Donald Trump Jr. Rages at ‘Nonbinary’ Hurricane

    Donald Trump Jr. has blasted what he called the “nonbinary” name of a hurricane churning towards the Caribbean.

    “Beryl? Even our Hurricanes are gender nonbinary now,” former President Donald Trump’s eldest son wrote on X, formerly Twitter, on Saturday.

    However, a community note explained that Beryl is not a nonbinary name, but a “name given to females” that dates back to the 19th century.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  162. Dating back to the beginning of the 20th century:

    Captain Beryl Richard Newman (2 November 1911 – 8 March 1998) was a U.S. Army officer who was a recipient of the U.S. military’s highest award for valor, the Medal of Honor, for his heroic actions during World War II.

    Beryl Richard Newman was born on 2 November 1911 in Baraboo, WI; he also joined the Army from that town. On 26 May 1944, he was serving as a First Lieutenant with the 133d Infantry, 34th Infantry Division. Near Cisterna, Italy that day, Newman and his platoon approached a German machine gun emplacement on the Anzio-Nettuno defense line. Newman, scouting ahead of his platoon, remained standing under enemy fire to ascertain the positions of the emplacements. Noting them, he proceeded to lead a machine gun unit from his platoon to a position from which they could open fire on the Germans. However, the fire was ineffective. Newman then single-handedly advanced on the two machine gun nests, wounding two Germans and causing the other two to flee. Three more Germans came rushing forward to another nest, but Newman killed two of them; the third fled. Newman and his platoon took eleven prisoners; Newman himself had destroyed three enemy machine gun emplacements. For his heroism, he was awarded the Medal of Honor.

    I wonder what Community Notes and Newsweek would report if you told them bleach is the only disinfectant known to man?

    BuDuh (a6b63d)

  163. “Imagine being triggered by the name of a Hurricane,” one person wrote.

    Yeah, imagine.

    Names alternate between male and female (for now, at least) because people got triggered by hurricane names. The sort of people who subscribe to lefty rags like Newsweek and are mocking Don Jr.

    lloyd (7935a8)

  164. lurker (c23034) — 6/29/2024 @ 9:16 pm

    You make some good points. I’m a little surprised that Dustin did not address them.

    norcal (226e65) — 6/30/2024 @ 1:40 pm

    Yeah, thanks. I respect Dustin’s opinion, so I was hoping he’d answer my questions. Maybe he still will.

    lurker (c23034)

  165. I wonder what Community Notes and Newsweek would report if you told them bleach is the only disinfectant known to man?

    Moron’s got to moron. but uhhh dumb

    Donald Trump: (29:46)
    A question that probably some of you are thinking of if you’re totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposedly we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. And I think you said you’re going to test that too. Sounds interesting, right? And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That’s pretty powerful. Steve, please.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  166. I know a girl named Stanley, is she trans because that’s her name? Moron’s got to moron.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  167. Derp.

    Injection of what? Do you see anything in your link that says “bleach?”

    Doofus got to doofus…

    Did you figure out what “the whole concept of light” refers to? Of course not. Even though I posted a link explaining it.

    Pig head got to pig head…

    BuDuh (a6b63d)

  168. Trans is synonymous with the concept that a name can be used for either gender?

    Hahahaha!!

    Dipstick got to dipstick…

    Hahahaha.

    Just plain stupid.

    BuDuh (a6b63d)

  169. Must…defend…Trump…even if it’s the wrong one. The MAGAt is strong in this one.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  170. The sort of people who subscribe to lefty rags like Newsweek and are mocking Don Jr.

    lloyd (7935a8) — 6/30/2024 @ 6:24 pm

    Newsweek hasn’t been a left rag for several years. It shifted from left to right leaning when it changed ownership about a decade ago.

    lurker (c23034)

  171. Moron’s got to moron. but uhhh dumb

    He sounds no sillier than any Hollywood starlet discussing global warming climate change.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  172. Bill Bryan: (28:34)
    For example, increasing the temperature and humidity of potentially contaminated indoor spaces appears to reduce the stability of the virus, and extra care may be warranted for dry environments that do not have exposure to solar light. We’re also testing disinfectants readily available. We’ve tested bleach, we’ve tested isopropyl alcohol on the virus specifically in saliva or in respiratory fluids and I can tell you that bleach will kill the virus in five minutes. Isopropyl alcohol will kill the virus in 30 seconds and that’s with no manipulation, no rubbing. Just bring it on and leaving it go. You rub it and it goes away even faster. We’re also looking at other disinfectants, specifically looking at the COVID-19 virus in saliva. This is not the end of our work. As we continue to characterize this virus and integrate our findings into practical applications to mitigate exposure and transmission. I would like to thank the president, thank the vice president for their ongoing support and leadership to the department and for their work in addressing this pandemic. I would also like to thank the scientists not only in S and T and the NBAC, but to the larger scientific and R and D community. Thank you very much.

    Donald Trump: (29:46)
    A question that probably some of you are thinking of if you’re totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposedly we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. And I think you said you’re going to test that too. Sounds interesting, right? And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That’s pretty powerful. Steve, please.

    Hmm, I wonder where he got bleach and disinfectant…maybe from the guy talking about cleaning surfaces directly before him chiming in that injecting it.

    Must…Defend…Trump

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  173. Klink Klunk with The Dozens…

    😭

    LOL! I’m glad you came back out of hiding. You are hilarious!

    BuDuh (a6b63d)

  174. Newsweek hasn’t been a left rag for several years.

    It’s TIME that has moved right to left.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  175. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside

    I guess we could call them “antivirals.” At no point does he say “bleach” and it’s COVID that is “doing tremendous number on the lungs.”

    But yeah, Trump’s understanding of the human body is based on Alka-Seltzer commercials, but I don’t view most politicians as being closet scientists either.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  176. From Klink Klunk’s latest quote:

    I can tell you that bleach will kill the virus in five minutes.

    And:

    And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute….

    …. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute….

    Too funny, KK!! Keep ‘em coming!!! You are doing as well as Biden.

    BuDuh (a6b63d)

  177. You can infer whatever you want between the two speakers, but the only thing I am sure of is that there were two speakers. This is a cheap shot and long past its sell-by date.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  178. Artist’s rendering of Klink Klunk’s dunking attempts.

    My mommy just told me to quit playing and come in for dinner. I’ll ask her if we can do this again tomorrow. Hahahahaha

    BuDuh (a6b63d)

  179. It’s almost like if you clip out the words he said, it doesn’t look as stupid.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  180. Just like if you rearrange them and include choice words from the other guy, he can be make to look as stupid as all get-out.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  181. Come back when you have tape of him telling people to drink, or inject, bleach.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  182. It was way different when we had hurricane Sandy, that one was totally a dude, because it did biggly damage, no lady would be named Sandy, nah.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  183. My mommy asked, “is this the person that thinks a gender neutral name automatically makes them trans?” When I told her “yes,” she said “no wonder he doesn’t know the difference between 1 minute and 5 minutes.” LOL. I love my mommy!

    See you tomorrow?

    BuDuh (a6b63d)

  184. Let’s go to the tape, that goes with the transcript.

    A question that probably some of you are thinking of if you’re totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. And I think you said you’re going to test that too. Sounds interesting, right? And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it’d be interesting to check that. So that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That’s pretty powerful.

    But he surely didn’t say the thing he said, nope, never.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  185. mmmMust…dddddefend…tttTrump…

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  186. No, Klink, he did not. Not even close. You really have to try real hard to force his words into what you want. Sorry.

    There are LOTS of reasons to call Trump a fool without torturing the language to do it. Why lie when the truth will serve you better?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  187. “Newsweek hasn’t been a left rag for several years. It shifted from left to right leaning when it changed ownership about a decade ago.”

    I’ll take your word for it. I haven’t read it since they ran a cover after Obama’s 2012 victory proclaiming “Republicans: too old, too white, too male”. Biden fans didn’t get the memo.

    lloyd (ffd3a6)

  188. What words that he said did he not say? Be specific.

    Sounds interesting, right? And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute and is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  189. Oh wait, he didn’t mean the words that he said because later he said he was being sarcastic, he said in a sarcastic tone speaking about something he said in a 100% sincere tone.

    Even he didn’t say that he didn’t say what he said. Because even he new that he said the things he said that were broadcast live on TV.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  190. Later in the QA

    Donald Trump: (53:43)
    Here we go. Here we go. The new headline is “Trump asks people to go outside. That’s dangerous.” Here we go. Same old group. You ready? I hope people enjoy the sun, and if it has an impact, that’s great. I’m just hearing this, not really for the first time. I mean, there’s been rumor that you know, a very nice rumor that you go outside in the sun or you have heat and it does have an effect on other viruses. But now we get it from one of the great laboratories of the world, I have to say. Covers a lot more territory than just this. This is probably an easy thing, relatively speaking, for you. I would like you to speak to the medical doctors to see if there’s any way that you can apply light and heat to cure. You know? If you could? And maybe you can, maybe you can’t. Again, I say maybe you can, maybe you can’t. I’m not a doctor. But I’m a person that has a good… You know what. Deborah, have you ever heard of that? The heat and the light relative to certain viruses, yes, but relative to this virus?

    Dr. Birx: (54:47)
    Not as a treatment. I mean, certainly fever is a good thing. When you have a fever, it helps your body respond. But, I’ve not seen heat or light as a-

    Donald Trump: (54:57)
    I think that’s a great thing to look at. Okay?

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  191. Klink, it’s like you’re trying to explain a joke that only you get and you’ve been at it for a week. Please stop.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  192. TRUMP: There`s nobody bigger or better at the military than I am.

    I know more about ISIS than the generals, believe me.

    I know more about courts than any human being on earth. OK.

    UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who are you consulting with consistently so that you are ready on day one?

    TRUMP: I`m speaking with myself, number one, because I have a very good brain –.

    Nobody but me will know how to do. I`m the king of banking law. I`m good at banking.

    Nobody know more about trade than me. I mean, I made so much more money than Mitt, you know. I have a store that is worth more money than Mitt. It is store.

    I`m an outsider. Used to be an insider to be honest with you, OK. I know the inside and I know the outside and that`s why I`m the only one that can fix this mess, folks.

    I wonder why all these things happened to him? Why didn’t it all just get fixed magically, he’s got a good brain and all.

    Of course this was in 2016, when his good brain wasn’t so full of more biggly smarts’s from when he knew everything about everything, but then learned that more biggly thinks could’d be gotted more betterer, but now he’s got all the good brains because he had a relationship with MIT and stuff (not like that you pervs, MIT isn’t a pron star).

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  193. Yeah, it’s a hilarious joke. This guy was, and may be president again. Complete joke.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  194. Biden needs to go because he’s lost his edge. The other guy never had it.

    Flush these turds

    “I heard from the president of Finland, tremendously smart man! He told me that over there, they rake there leaves very often and that prevents most of the forest fires over there. I think if we did that in the great state of California, the forest fires would decrease a tremendous amount.”

    “Democrats are aggressively pushing late-term abortion allowing children to be ripped from their mother’s womb, right up until the moment of birth. The baby is born and you wrap the baby beautifully and you talk to the mother about the possible execution of the baby.”

    “Right now, a number of state laws allow a baby to be born from his or her mother’s womb in the ninth month. It is wrong. It has to change.”

    “The Kurds, They’re fighting for their land and as somebody wrote in a very, very powerful article today, they didn’t help us in the Second World War. They didn’t help us with Normandy, as an example.”

    “As you know the last eight years, they borrowed more than it did in the whole history of our country. So they borrowed more than $10 trillion, right? And yet, we picked up $5.2 trillion just in the stock market. Possibly picked up the whole thing in terms of the first nine months, in terms of value. So you could say, in one sense, we’re really increasing values. And maybe in a sense we’re reducing debt.”

    “Look, having nuclear — my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, okay, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart — you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I’m one of the smartest people anywhere in the world — it’s true! — but when you’re a conservative Republican they try — oh, do they do a number — that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune — you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged — but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me — it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are — nuclear is so powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what’s going to happen and he was right, who would have thought? — but when you look at what’s going on with the four prisoners — now it used to be three, now it’s four — but when it was three and even now, I would have said it’s all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don’t, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years — but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us, this is horrible.”

    “Frederick Douglas is an example of somebody who’s done an amazing job and is getting recognized more and more, I notice.”

    “You’ve worked so hard on these things, you’ve worked so hard on the kidney. Very special. The kidney has a very special place in the heart. It’s an incredible thing.”

    “In June of 1775, the Continental Congress created a unified army out of the revolutionary forces encamped around Boston and New York and named after the great George Washington, commander-in-chief… Our army manned the air. It rammed the ramparts. It took over the airports. It did everything it had to do. And at Fort McHenry, under the rockets’ red glare, it had nothing but victory. And when dawn came, their star-spangled banner waved defiant.”

    For those non-historians out there, the first airplane flight wasn’t until 1903, and the first airport wasn’t built until 1909. The battle of Fort McHenry was in 1814 and the Fort itself wasn’t even built until 1798. The American flag didn’t exist until 1777, and the version called the “star spangled banner” didn’t exist until 1794. And the only battle fought in June 1775 was Bunker Hill, and the British won that one.

    “This is a tough hurricane, one of the wettest we’ve ever seen from the standpoint of water.”

    Peter Baker: “President Trump, what do you hope to accomplish in your next term if you are elected”

    Trump: “But so I think, I think it would be, I think it would be very, very, I think we’d have a very, very solid, we would continue what we’re doing, we’d solidify what we’ve done, and we have other things on our plate that we want to get done”

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  195. @195

    See, I told you there was better stuff.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  196. Both major parties have failed. Utterly, completely failed. Trump is a symptom of the GOP’s failure and Biden is the end result of intellectual bankruptcy.

    They present two alternatives:

    Biden will continue with failed policy and failed ideology, and run on inertia until the wheels come off. He will solve nothing and put off the solutions until there is nothing left.

    Trump will kick over all the game tables, helter-skelter, and brute-force his way through our biggest problems, leaving a wreck.

    Which is worse?

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  197. If Trump gets 5 years, then we’ll be in a position to double flush.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a)

  198. If Trump gets 5 years, then we’ll be in a position to double flush.

    If Trump gets 5 years on the NY charges, it will be a major miscarriage of justice. It’s not acceptable to convict him there because you know he’s guilty of something else. And those charges are literally trumped up. And you know they are, although you may not care.

    Kevin M (a9545f)

  199. Trump seemed to me to be talking about UV-A which is a disinfectant being introduced into the lung region via an endotracheal tube not ingesting, self injecting household liquids or aerosols.
    Maybe Trump confused insertion and injection during the introduction of the tube (intubation)

    Here is the therapy
    “A team of scientists from the United States has recently evaluated the safety and efficacy profiles of ultraviolet-A (UVA) light applied via an endotracheal tube to critically ill coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) patients. The findings reveal that specific and monitored application of UVA therapy is safe and highly effective in reducing endotracheal viral load and improving clinical outcomes of COVID-19 patients”

    “This is the first human study of its kind to evaluate the safety and efficacy profiles of UVA light internally applied to treat critically ill COVID-19 patients. The findings reveal that UVA therapy is safe for human use and is highly effective in reducing viral load and disease severity.”

    bolded by me

    Trump should get the charitable laymans pass on it from the media because god knows they still think UV is only for external surfaces and they still do not seem to know that it can used internally, UVA light is an internal disinfectant

    The threads of context that runs though the fabric of Trumps statement below are clearly light therapy and intubation. Light therapy is in the beginning, and ending. People with a limited understanding of disinfectants (like fact checkers) think Trump HAD to have switched in the middle there to Lysol or bleach. Trump MIGHT have switched thoughts to some other form of disinfectant “that, you’re going to have to use medical doctors with.” but he went right back to UV-A disinfection.
    When I say MIGHT, it is because a endotracheal tube “attachment” could be used to put medications that fight or kill infection directly into the distal airway – remember this is early on in COVID and a lot of people are trying novel approaches and the endotracheal tube was already being used to apply atropine, vasopressin, naxolone directly and deeply into the distal airway

    THE PRESIDENT: Thank you very much. So I asked Bill a question that probably some of you are thinking of, if you’re totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous — whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light — and I think you said that that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said, supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way, and I think you said you’re going to test that too. It sounds interesting.

    ACTING UNDER SECRETARY BRYAN: We’ll get to the right folks who could.

    THE PRESIDENT: Right. And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that. So, that, you’re going to have to use medical doctors with. But it sounds — it sounds interesting to me.

    So we’ll see. But the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute, that’s — that’s pretty powerful.
    It actually is most effective at 20 minutes, but to be fair when they first were starting trials they didn’t know what the effective safe dose of UV-A disinfectant (light) was

    My biggest laugh about this whole thing is watching the video – Trump seems to be talking like he thought of the UV-A therapy via a UVA light on an endotracheal tube, he’s the genius behind the idea. Sure its in the transcript, but the video is hilarious “And then I said, supposing you brought the light inside the body” Then acting undersecretary / yes man Bryan has to with a straight face say “We’ll get to the right folks who could.”.

    I picture Bryan on the phone calling the guys who invented or who are pioneering this and telling them: “The President had this great idea after your presentation the other day about UV-A light on the end of the tube thingy and wants you to look into putting it inside the body- kinda like you showed us the other day but better and more inside. Also Mr President wants that 20 minute dosage time cut to 1 minute. Get on that too and make sure you have Doctors there”

    steveg (40d13a)

  200. Do you know who would be having a field day over the debate if he hadn’t gotten himself banned from this site?

    DCSCA.

    norcal (c7ad02)

  201. Memo to all:

    There will be no open convention. A convention that throws out Biden and does not select harris is a convention that gives the country to Trump. Sorry. That’s reality.

    If Biden quits — he should resign the Presidency and hand the keys over to Harris ASAP. It will shake up the race by shoring up the minority votes amongst the Dems and probably totally disrupt the Trump strategy.

    Don’t really want a Harris presidency. If the media freak out brigade doesn’t want one, they might want to consider shutting it down

    Appalled (36916d)

  202. I can’t believe people here are still arguing over what Trump said or did not say four years ago about Covid, bleach, and UV light.

    Rip Murdock (839852)

  203. @194

    Klink, it’s like you’re trying to explain a joke that only you get and you’ve been at it for a week. Please stop.

    Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/30/2024 @ 9:05 pm

    He can’t.

    Trump inspires this out of his detractors, and it’s part of the reasons why Trump has successes.

    They cannot keep themselves to the specific, credible valid things to criticize Trump. They have to find any opening and “controversialize” to justify their animosity.

    Want to know why Trump has ardent voters?

    It’s because when Trump does *something*, then it’s exaggerated or manipulated to the extreme just to make him, and by extension his supporters look bad. You’ve lost these supporters to make any claimes to defend some of Trump’s bad behaviors.

    whembly (86df54)

  204. @204

    Memo to all:

    There will be no open convention. A convention that throws out Biden and does not select harris is a convention that gives the country to Trump. Sorry. That’s reality.

    If Biden quits — he should resign the Presidency and hand the keys over to Harris ASAP. It will shake up the race by shoring up the minority votes amongst the Dems and probably totally disrupt the Trump strategy.

    Don’t really want a Harris presidency. If the media freak out brigade doesn’t want one, they might want to consider shutting it down

    Appalled (36916d) — 7/1/2024 @ 6:48 am

    I think Biden stepping down for VP Harris to take over is the ONLY path forward.

    The Biden/Harris ’24 re-election campaign infrastructure & funds is massive, and no other Democrat candidate can use it directly, other than Harris, if Joe Biden steps down.

    Furthermore, we’re getting close that candidate names on the ballots are locked in… I think Arizona and Wisconsin has already passed that date.

    So, there’s no easy path here for Democrats.

    They either has to roll the dice with Joe Biden in November…

    or…

    Joe Biden steps down and Harris is sworn in as President and takes her shot in November. (the hardest part his who will be the VP in interim that the GOP House will accept… shouldn’t be too hard).

    whembly (86df54)

  205. SCOTUS ruled that POTUS has absolutely immunity for official acts, but no immunity for unofficial acts.

    Remands the case back to district courts to determine the acts as official vs non-official.

    Seems like the DC case being done before the election is impossible.

    whembly (86df54)

  206. @208. The DC case being done before the election was already impossible. You do know that Judge Chutkan set aside 80 days for the defense to do discovery and other pre-trial work, and that the 80 day period has been on hold pending today’s SCOTUS decision? So even if Chutkan started the 80 day clock today, which she obviously won’t, it would be at least the 3d week of September before she could even begin empaneling a jury? So back in the real world, I’m betting against a jury being seated before the election. The jury deciding the case before the election has been impossible since SCOTUS declined to expedite the immunity decision.

    lurker (c23034)

  207. I’ve worked for a man who was knighted for his scientific work with materials. His wife’s side hustle is biotech laboratory open platform data storage and access shared by hundreds of international companies. She is way past “the cloud”. I’d asked her what she did, which was a mistake because she is so smart and so deep into her field that I was instantly in way over my head. After I fought my way back to the surface, still contemplating data shapes, hyper-dimensional data structures, I tried to repeat back to her what I’d thought I’d learned about what she did and finished by saying “please tell me I got at least a “C” grade on that” The only thing I knew before we started was that graphite, charcoal and diamonds are all forms of carbon but what the hell does that have to do with data?

    I also worked for a guy who finished first in his class at USNA in engineering, who earned a Silver Star in WWII, then went on to MIT elected to Sigma Xi, did stuff with CalTech. I learned this from his obit, not him, but I knew he was very smart.

    He and his wife walked by and he was asking me about the size of the mainline pipe I was using (2″) given the size of his water meter was 3/4″ and I said “well, it keeps the pressure loss down, but the biggest thing here is to keep velocity down, saves wear and tear on the system, in irrigation the only time we want velocity is when the water pressure pushes water into and out of the sprinkler nozzle which gives us distance, and the nozzle is shaped to give us coverage”
    So I’m giving him marginally accurate fluid dynamics for dummies with dirt in their nails and he says something about how he sees I’m converting turbulent flow through the 3/4″ meter to laminar flow in the 2″ pipe and I tell him “you know more about this than I do” and he kindly says no, “I can’t build an irrigation system and I’m glad we hired you. Did you study this in school?”. I told him no, I looked it up to see why its done this way. Later on I was talking with his wife and I said that conversation was both funny and embarrassing. and she says “don’t worry and don’t be embarrassed. It was all he could talk about on our walk. You know, he helped invent a silent propulsion system for our nuclear submarines, so he works with water too.”

    One last story I’ve told here before is the time I was in the jury box during voir dire and this Asian woman is being asked questions by the defense attorney. She is a research professor of mathematics at UCSB, so the defense attorney says “oh. so you work a lot with numbers”
    She say “oh no, that is a very common misconception and in our work we do not use numbers” The Prosecutor (and I) were having a great time watching this pretty smart guy try to first tread water, and then get out as if that back there didn’t happen.

    Trump is no genius, but he is not unintelligent. He has some type of attention disorder because he is what used to be called “scatter brained”. My point in all this is that I’m not a stupid person and am smarter than a lot of people (doesn’t make me better, I’m talking about processing information). I’m smart enough, but when I talk with experts, the best in their fields who are deeply immersed into those fields, they leave me treading water at best. Charitably thinking, Trump is leader of USA in a pandemic, people are panicking, he is meeting with some pretty big brained people whose brains are deep into their field and Trump was overmatched. You can hear the sloshing of Trumps brain treading water and there is no shame in that. Trump is a real estate person, immersed fully into that world, trying to make sense of something completely foreign to him.

    steveg (40d13a)

  208. Advice to Trump: When in deep over your head, don’t think out loud around your critics. That’s not a pretty process going on in there.
    It’s also unfair to mock peoples intelligence or lack thereof based on verbal processing, because what matters most is getting to the right answer within a reasonable amount of time. The internal process can be inelegant, its OK.
    Trump’s brain architecture clearly takes him over the river and through the woods to Grandmothers house he goes, while my friend’s brain architecture just goes straight to Grandma’s while simultaneously calculating the best path for the her entire family tree.
    The important thing is that they all arrive before dinner

    steveg (40d13a)

  209. A fact check that everybody missed:

    https://www.local3news.com/regional-national/read-biden-trump-debate-partial-rush-transcript/article_89a66d61-ea3d-59da-93bc-fc5edce6914c.html

    Number three, the crimes that you are still charged with – and think of all the civil penalties you have. How many billions of dollars do you owe in civil penalties for molesting a woman in public, for doing a whole range of things, of having sex with a porn star on the night – and – while your wife was pregnant?

    The alleged molestation was not in public, but in a public area (dressing room in a store) where somehow nobody was, and the allegation about the porn star was after his wife gave birth

    Yet this claim that it was while his wife was pregnant keeps on being made, and I suspect this originated with Democratic political consultants who probably focus group tested what was worse – while pregnant or after birth. (Trump flatly denies having had sex at all with Stormy Daniels – is that because he thinks it could be argued that concealing it was a crime?

    I suspect what we have here is an attempt to “improve” the allegation – the truth not being good enough for the Democrats.

    If it was while his wife was pregnant it meant he traveled away from her while she was close to giving birth. He probably did so anyway, but this wraps it all up in one sentence.

    She probably had her mother, who recently died, with her when she gave birth.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  210. Some thing Trump said that you can’t call a lie, because nobody knows, but is making a bold prediction:

    I will have that war settled between Putin and Zelenskyy as president-elect before I take office on January 20th. I’ll have that war settled.

    People being killed so needlessly, so stupidly, and I will get it settled and I’ll get it settled fast, before I take office.

    AND:

    … Now we have a hostage. A Wall Street Journal reporter, I think a good guy, and he’s over there because Putin is laughing at this guy, probably asking for billions of dollars for the reporter.

    I will have him out very quickly, as soon as I take office, before I take office. I said by literally as soon as I win the election, I will have that reporter out. He should have had him out a long time ago. But Putin is probably asking for billions and billions of dollars because this guy pays it every time.

    We had two cases where we paid $6 billion for five people. I got 58 people out and I paid essentially nothing.

    I don’t think money was being offered except to Iran.

    If President Biden had his wits about him, he could have said: Why wait till the election? Let’s you and I get together and write a letter to Putin and end the war in Ukraine and get that reporter, Evan Gershkovich, out now.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  211. These are the two spots where Biden stumbled the
    most:

    He was asked about the national debt and evidently wanted to say something about Trump wanting to handle that by cutting spending whereas he didn’t, but rather wanted to raise (or restore) taxes and then wanted to say something about spending money on Covid so that it didn’t cost anybody out of pocket to get the vaccine and then got lost:

    https://www.local3news.com/regional-national/read-biden-trump-debate-partial-rush-transcript/article_89a66d61-ea3d-59da-93bc-fc5edce6914c.html

    TAPPER: President Trump, we will get to immigration later in this block.

    President Biden, I want to give you an opportunity to respond to this question about the national debt.

    BIDEN: He had the largest national debt of any president four-year period, number one.

    Number two, he got $2 trillion tax cut, benefited the very wealthy.

    What I’m going to do is fix the taxes.

    For example, we have a thousand trillionaires in America – I mean, billionaires in America. And what’s happening? They’re in a situation where they, in fact, pay 8.2 percent in taxes. If they just paid 24 percent or 25 percent, either one of those numbers, they’d raised $500 million – billion dollars, I should say, in a 10-year period.

    We’d be able to right – wipe out his debt. We’d be able to help make sure that – all those things we need to do, childcare, elder care, making sure that we continue to strengthen our healthcare system, making sure that we’re able to make every single solitary person eligible for what I’ve been able to do with the COVID – excuse me, with dealing with everything we have to do with.

    Look, if – we finally beat Medicare.

    TAPPER: Thank you, President Biden.

    President Trump?

    TRUMP: Well, he’s right: He did beat Medicaid (ph). He beat it to death. And he’s destroying Medicare, because all of these people are coming in, they’re putting them on Medicare, they’re putting them on Social Security. They’re going to destroy Social Security.

    I think Biden meant to say they beat Medicare into paying more for the Covidd-19 vaccine:

    https://www.cms.gov/newsroom/press-releases/biden-administration-continues-efforts-increase-vaccinations-bolstering-payments-home-covid-19

    As part of President Biden’s commitment to increasing access to vaccinations, the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS) today announced an additional payment amount for administering in-home COVID-19 vaccinations to Medicare beneficiaries who have difficulty leaving their homes or are otherwise hard-to-reach. This announcement further demonstrates continued efforts of the Biden-Harris Administration to meet people where they are and make it as easy as possible for all Americans to get vaccinated. There are approximately 1.6 million adults 65 or older who may have trouble accessing COVID-19 vaccinations because they have difficulty leaving home.

    While many Medicare beneficiaries can receive a COVID-19 vaccine at a retail pharmacy, their physician’s office, or a mass vaccination site, some beneficiaries have great difficulty leaving their homes or face a taxing effort getting around their communities easily to access vaccination in these settings. To better serve this group, Medicare is incentivizing providers and will pay an additional $35 per dose for COVID-19 vaccine administration in a beneficiary’s home, increasing the total payment amount for at-home vaccination from approximately $40 to approximately $75 per vaccine dose. For a two-dose vaccine, this results in a total payment of approximately $150 for the administration of both doses, or approximately $70 more than the current rate.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  212. The other trouble Biden got into with words was this:

    TAPPER: Let’s turn now to the issue of immigration and border security.

    President Biden, a record number of migrants have illegally crossed the southern border on your watch, overwhelming border states and overburdening cities such as New York and Chicago, and in some cases causing real safety and security concerns. Given that, why should voters trust you to solve this crisis?

    BIDEN: Because we worked very hard to get a bipartisan agreement that not only changed all of that, it made sure that we are in a situation where you had no circumstance where they could come across the border with the number of border police there are now. We significantly increased the number of asylum officers. Significantly – by the way, the Border Patrol endorsed me, endorsed my position.

    I thought at the time Biden must have been referring to a special group of people connected with CBP but on loooking it over I see he corrected it to endorsed “my position” and this presumably refers to some legislation. Anyway this is not the real trouble.

    He continued:

    In addition to that, we found ourselves in a situation where, when he was president, he was taking – separating babies from their mothers, putting them in cages, making sure the families were separated. That’s not the right way to go.

    What I’ve done – since I’ve changed the law, what’s happened? I’ve changed it in a way that now you’re in a situation where there are 40 percent fewer people coming across the border illegally. It’s better than when he left office.

    He’s referring clearly only to the latest changes if you know. And Biden has been all over the map with this. He liberalizes – and enforces. And makes things into a bit of a lottery.

    Anyway, here he segues into incoherence:

    And I’m going to continue to move until we get the total ban on the – the total initiative relative to what we’re going to do with more Border Patrol and more asylum officers.

    TAPPER: President Trump?

    TRUMP: I really don’t know what he said at the end of that sentence. I don’t think he knows what he said either….

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  213. A conservative talk show host found this the worst comment Biden made in the debate and was surprised it did not get more attention:

    (Biden was talking about the rape exception for abortion debt and evidently wanted to say that some states might not include it and segued into this)

    https://www.local3news.com/regional-national/read-biden-trump-debate-partial-rush-transcript/article_89a66d61-ea3d-59da-93bc-fc5edce6914c.html

    …The idea that states are able to do this is a little like saying, we’re going to turn civil rights back to the states, let each state have a different rule.

    Look, there’s so many young women who have been – including a young woman who just was murdered and he went to the funeral. The idea that she was murdered by – by – by an immigrant coming in and (inaudible) talk about that.

    But here’s the deal, there’s a lot of young women who are being raped by their – by their in-laws, by their – by their spouses, brothers and sisters, by – just – it’s just – it’s just ridiculous. And they can do nothing about it. And they try to arrest them when they cross state lines.

    Raped by their sisters?

    Biden evidently wanted to say that the vast majority of women raped were not raped by anyone who crossed the U.S. border and it could be members of their family and he botched this all up. After in-laws and spouses and brothers, he ran out of relatives.

    It’s fathers! Fathers or stepfathers.

    He also did not say – the phrase is domestic partner – could rape a woman and justify an abortion..

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  214. Both Trump and Biden ran out of steam a few times and were remined by the moderators that they had X number of seconds left.

    TAPPER: You have 80 seconds left. My question was: What do you say to those voters who believe that you violated your constitutional oath through your actions, inaction on January 6th, 2021, and worry that you’ll do it again?

    TRUMP: Well, I didn’t say that to anybody. I said peacefully and patriotically….

    Or, to Biden:

    BASH: You have 49 seconds left. What do you say to black voters who are disappointed with the progress so far?

    BIDEN: I say, I don’t blame them for being disappointed. Inflation is still hurting them badly. For example, I provided for the idea that any black family, first time home buyer should get a $10,000 tax credit to be able to buy their first home so they can get started…

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

  215. After that debate I’m ready to vote for ANY GOP candidate that isn’t Trump. But I wont’t have that option because the GOP base was so overwhelmingly pro-trump that it was over before my states primary.

    Still not voting for him, good chance I’ll vote against him.

    We’ve hard presidents who were diminished by age before. Before my time but Regan was in much the same situation, but a very different media environment. Biden should resign and put Harris in. She was low on my list in the 2020 primary but at this point I think she’ll do a better job.

    Time123 (1abcd6)

  216. Whembly, The only thing from the SC decision that I really object to is that NO official act or statement can be used against the president for criminal unofficial acts. That seems to broad and likely to preclude a lot of evidence around motive and intent.

    Maybe what needs to happen is that Congress impeach a president, or ex-president, to strip them of their office prior to criminal investigation.

    But, in general I’m not too worried about this. Looking back there havebn’t really been any criminal prosecutions in the past so a law making it harder doesn’t change much. The real problem with Trump is that such a large part of the public likes and supports his unlawful behavior.

    Time123 (1abcd6)

  217. Going back to. Biden withdrawing, I don’t think it matters for the election. I think most people will decide based on Tump vs. Not-Trump. Biden, Kamala, Newsom, or whoever doesn’t. Matter a ton. As I’ve said before, no one voted FOR Biden, they voted against Trump. Had Biden run unopposed he would have lost.

    Time123 (1abcd6)

  218. Jon Stewart that night on the debate (maybe the only TV comedian working)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SJr44m-w1Y

    Sammy Finkelman (e4ef09)

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