Louisiana: Ten Commandments Posted in every Public School
[guest post by Dana]
A bill signed into law this week makes Louisiana the only state to require that the Ten Commandments be displayed in every classroom in public schools and colleges — and stirs the long-running debate over the role of religion in government institutions.
Under the new law, all public K-12 classrooms and state-funded universities will be required to display a poster-sized display of the Ten Commandments in “large, easily readable font” next year.
As expected, civil liberty groups are pushing back on the new law, saying:
. . . it would unconstitutionally breach protections against government-imposed religion.
The organizations believe the law violates U.S. Supreme Court precedent set in the 1980 Stone v. Graham decision. In a 5-4 ruling, the Burger court ruled against a similar law passed in Kentucky requiring classrooms to post copies of the Ten Commandments, finding that it violated the First Amendment.
“The law violates the separation of church and state and is blatantly unconstitutional,” the groups wrote in a joint statement. “The First Amendment promises that we all get to decide for ourselves what religious beliefs, if any, to hold and practice, without pressure from the government. Politicians have no business imposing their preferred religious doctrine on students and families in public schools.”
Proponents of the bill say that the history of the Ten Commandments are “foundational documents of our state and national government.”
The bill also allows schools to display other historical documents, such as the Mayflower Compact, the Declaration of Independence and the Northwest Ordinance.
“Although this is a religious document, this document is also posted in over one hundred and eighty places, including the Supreme Court of the United States of America. I would say is based on the laws that this country was founded on,” Republican state Sen. Adam Bass told KALB last month.
While other places/buildings in the U.S. post the Ten Commandments, the fact remains that students have to attend school, and are thus going to be a captive audience, so to speak. Do we trust that teachers won’t have kids reciting the commandments? That would be a further violation of civil liberties in a public school setting.
It’s also going to be problematic for the parents who are raising their children in a non-Christian faith. Won’t they see this as a gross violation of their liberties? I think they will.
This:
“Altering constitutional law is not the only motivation here; a version of Christian mysticism is also in play. There is a real belief that the Ten Commandments have spiritual power over the hearts and minds of students.
“I grew up in Kentucky and went to classes before the Ten Commandments were ordered removed, and I can testify that the displays had no impact on our lives. My classmates and I were not better people because of the faded posters on the walls.”
(I believe posting the Ten Commandments in public school rooms violates the Constitution. But if it didn’t, and lawmakers were determined to go the religious route in public schools to please their constituents, why choose the Ten Commandments? Why not choose instead the beautiful Beatitudes?)
—Dana
Hello.
Dana (280540) — 6/20/2024 @ 5:59 pmThis all sounds very Old Testament to me. 😛
norcal (6f0bd9) — 6/20/2024 @ 6:09 pmI’d much rather my kid see the Blessed ares rather than the Thou shall nots!
Dana (280540) — 6/20/2024 @ 6:14 pmThe roots of this go back to the founding of public schools and the desire of majority Protestants that their beliefs be taught. They went so far as to outlaw public funding of [other] religious-based schools to thwart the desire of Catholics and Jews to evade this indoctrination of their children.
A federal amendment was proposed to outlaw such funding (the Blaine Amendment). It failed but many states had adopted such at the state level were using it to prevent ANY public funding of alternative schooling until recently (Espinoza v. Montana Department of Revenue)
Once again, busy people are attempting to return public schools to Christian academies. This is going to fail quickly but they’ll be pack with some new troll.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/20/2024 @ 6:45 pmI am just old enough to remember singing Christian hymns about Jesus in grammar school. Some Jewish friends of mine also remember that too. Where it was just “whatever” to me, it was a terrible insult to them and theirs.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/20/2024 @ 6:48 pmDidn’t we go through this Roy Moore in Alabama before he got outed as a creeper?
You can’t ban the 10 commandments from schools, in many contexts they’re very appropriate. But you can’t require them, especially not with specific wording. I mean, what if these are worded differently then my church teaches? If my kids are going to learn religious teaching it needs to align with my church.
Time123 (bc6af5) — 6/20/2024 @ 6:51 pmEven if you argue that Judaeo-Christian belief encompasses these commandments, the wording and order differ among sects. Islam has similar commandments, although they differ substantially. But Hindus (and Native Americans and others) would have a real problem with the expressed monotheism. And of course there are the atheists.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/20/2024 @ 7:00 pmYes, the 10 Commandments are religious in nature, and yes one of the reasons our country was founded was for religious freedom from the government, and although I hate to disagree with you all here, I think the point Louisiana is making is a good one:
Our nation was founded on Judeo-Christian values and it’s important that students in public schools be taught our history. The 10 Commandments were part of the beliefs of (some) of our founding fathers. So while some interpret forcing schools to put up the 10 Commandments as infringing on students’ freedom of religion as enshrined in our founding and constitution, it’s important that they at least be aware of our history as a country as well as our roots. So all students in public schools should have to read the King James Bible, which is much more historically relevant in understanding our founding values. While we’re at it, perhaps we should have black students be enslaved (only while at school of course!), so that everyone could have a better sense of our roots. Maybe those students who don’t agree should be tried and burned as witches?
In reality, those who are grousing about civil liberties are really just mad that America is and always has been a Christian nation, and not teaching our children facts about our history is woke nonsense pushed by America-haters.
Nate (cfb326) — 6/20/2024 @ 8:12 pmWe already have government imposed religion from Pride Flags to Gaia Worship
It’s about time for some pushback.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 6/20/2024 @ 8:36 pmRepublicans better remember what they say: No other gods that includes worshipping trump! Thou shall not STEAL! Thous shall not commit adultery. Thous shall not bare false witness (lie) Thous shalt not covet.
asset (0f6ed7) — 6/20/2024 @ 8:38 pmOur nation was founded to get rid of unfair government of an overseas monarchy.
The natives lived here, Europeans founded colonies for commercial and geographic gain, extensive conflict between the great powers caused excessive pain, in the form of taxes and tyrannical governors, local rebellion, retribution, retaliation, escalation, self government furor, rebels win.
Oh, and different religous groups had come here too, hence the founding fathers had to address all of the different beliefs in the constitution.
But the founding of the nation was specifically not do to religion, and made special effort to ensure that free worship across religions were enshrined in our founding philosophy. This whole Christian nation as a reason is a fable invented around 150 years after the founding.
You would think that our founders, in the document declaring the 13 colonies independant would have included some specific wording in there. See end.
What does it mean to say America is a Christian nation?
It depends on whom you ask. Some believe God worked to bring European Christians to America in the 1600s and secure their independence in the 1700s. Some take the Puritan settlers at their word that they were forming a covenant with God, similar to the Bible’s description of ancient Israel, and see America as still subject to divine blessings or punishments depending on how faithful it is. Still others contend that some or all the American founders were Christian, or that the founding documents were based on Christianity.
Several of the colonies had Christian language in their founding documents, such as Massachusetts, with established churches lasting decades after independence. Others, such as Rhode Island, offered broader religious freedom. It’s also arguable whether the colonies’ actions lived up to their words, given their histories of religious intolerance and their beginnings of centuries-long African slavery and wars on Native Americans.
What about the founders?
The leaders of the American Revolution and the new republic held a mix of beliefs — some Christian, some Unitarian, some deistic or otherwise theistic. Some key founders, like Benjamin Franklin, admired Jesus as a moral teacher but would fail a test of Christian orthodoxy. Many believed strongly in religious freedom, even as they also believed that religion was essential to maintain a virtuous citizenry.
Were the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution based on Christianity and the Ten Commandments?
References to the Creator and Nature’s God in the Declaration reflect a general theism that could be acceptable to Christians, Unitarians, deists and others. Both documents reflect Enlightenment ideas of natural rights and accountable government. Some also see these documents as influenced, or at least compatible, with Protestant emphasis on such ideas as human sin, requiring checks and balances. In fact, believers in a Christian America were some of the strongest opponents of ratifying the Constitution because of its omission of God references.
Were most early Americans Christian?
Many were and many weren’t. Early church membership was actually quite low, but revivals known as the First and Second Great Awakenings, before and after the Revolution, won a lot of converts. Many scholars see religious freedom as enabling multiple churches to grow and thrive.
Were Catholics considered Christian?
Not by many early Americans. Some state constitutions barred them from office.
How did that change?
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 6/20/2024 @ 8:51 pmGradually, but by the time of the Cold War, many saw Catholics, Protestants and Jews as God-believing American patriots, allied in the face-off with the atheistic, communist Soviet Union.
@11 Even christian doesn’t have the same meaning to everyone. The fundimentalists hate christian existentialists more then they hate atheists and for better reasons. I went to christian schools growing up and look how I turned out! We said the pledge and prayed in school every morning.
asset (0f6ed7) — 6/21/2024 @ 3:19 amNate,
The historical argument would be stronger if the Legislature had demanded that other foundational documents were also displayed. They did not. That the Declaration, which Klink rightly says is the core of our Founding, is not included is instructive. This is a religious not an historical demand.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/21/2024 @ 9:46 amThere’s no such thing as “Judeo-Christian values”, as there are fundamental differences between the two religions
SamG (ffc4c9) — 6/22/2024 @ 10:57 amas there are fundamental differences between the two religions
Certainly, but there are common ones, too, such as, oh, the 10 Commandments.
Kevin M (a9545f) — 6/22/2024 @ 12:13 pm