Weekend Open Thread
[guest post by Dana]
Let’s go!
First news item
Much to the consternation of the Trump camp, but good for her:
Nikki Haley ‘s path to the GOP nomination is rapidly shrinking following recent losses in Iowa and New Hampshire. But she’s vowing to stay in the race indefinitely, backed by thousands of committed donors, a key slice of the party’s moderate wing and a new willingness to attack the mental fitness and legal baggage of 2024 Republican front-runner Donald Trump. And the harder Haley fights, the more Republican officials fear she may hurt his long-term prospects in the all-but certain general election ahead against Democratic President Joe Biden…“I am not going anywhere,” she told reporters on Thursday. “We have a country to save. And I am determined to keep on going the entire way. As long as we can keep closing that gap, I’m gonna keep staying in.”
Second news item
NY governor wants illegal migrants deported after attacks on law enforcement:
New York Gov. Kathy Hochul said Thursday that the reported migrants who were recorded on video assaulting two police officers over the weekend in Times Square should be deported.
“Get them all and send them back,” she said in response to a question about the people who have been arrested in connection with the assaults. “You don’t touch our police officers. You don’t touch anybody.”
She made similar remarks Wednesday after a reporter asked her whether the people should be deported.
“I think that’s actually something that should be looked at, I mean, if someone commits a crime against a police officer in the state of New York and they’re not here legally. Definitely worth checking into,” said Hochul, a Democrat.
In 2023, by executive order, and without legislation, the governor declared New York a “sanctuary” state.
Third news item
Grace Powell was 12 or 13 when she discovered she could be a boy.
…
It was classic gender dysphoria, a feeling of discomfort with your sex.
Reading about transgender people online, Powell believed that the reason she didn’t feel comfortable in her body was that she was in the wrong body. Transitioning seemed like the obvious solution. The narrative she had heard and absorbed was that if you don’t transition, you’ll kill yourself.
After going through cross-sex hormone treatment at 17, she had a double mastectomy and transitioned to a transgender man before leaving for college. Unfortunately, she now has regrets:
At no point during her medical or surgical transition, Powell says, did anyone ask her about the reasons behind her gender dysphoria or her depression. At no point was she asked about her sexual orientation. And at no point was she asked about any previous trauma, and so neither the therapists nor the doctors ever learned that she’d been sexually abused as a child.
“I wish there had been more open conversations,” Powell, now 23 and detransitioned, told me. “But I was told there is one cure and one thing to do if this is your problem, and this will help you.”
Fourth news item
Leaders from Hamas and Islamic Jihad held a call on Friday to discuss a proposal for a potential hostage deal and ceasefire, according to a statement.
The statement noted that the leaders agreed that any deal should incorporate the following:
Complete end to the aggression
Withdrawal of the occupation army outside the Gaza Strip
Lifting of the siege and reconstruction…Hamas has called for the release of thousands of Palestinian prisoners and the complete withdrawal of Israeli forces from Gaza, something Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said he would not agree to. On Tuesday, Netanyahu also vowed to press on until Israel’s goal of eliminating Hamas in Gaza is complete.
Fifth news item
EU announces good news for Ukraine:
The European Union agreed a funding deal worth more than $50 billion for Ukraine in a crucial summit on Thursday that comes at a pivotal moment in the war.
The funds had been blocked since December after Hungary’s Prime Minister Viktor Orban had vetoed the deal at a previous summit. Failure to have reached an agreement would have been a major blow to Ukraine, at a time when its outmanned and outgunned forces are struggling on the battlefield amid a renewed Russian assault. Meanwhile, military aid from the United States has dried up amid an ongoing battle in Washington over future funding for Kyiv.
An official text, published by the EU Council, said that the 27 member states had approved €50 billion ($54 billion) to be sent to Ukraine from 2024 to 2027. It detailed €33 billion “in the form of loans” and €17 billion in “non-repayable support” that could be “generated from frozen Russian assets. The text makes multiple mentions of the money being used as part of Ukraine’s path to joining the bloc.
Joe Biden has requested a further $61 billion in funding for Kyiv but has so far been stonewalled by Republican hardliners on Capitol Hill who say US support lacks a clear end game.
The US president’s top diplomat issued a bleak warning over the situation on Monday, saying Ukraine’s gains over two years of grinding war were in doubt if Congress did not act.
He said: “Without it, simply put, everything that Ukrainians achieved and that we’ve helped them achieve will be in jeopardy”.
“Absent that supplemental [funding], we’re going to be sending a strong and wrong message to all of our adversaries that we are not serious about the defence of freedom, the defence of democracy,” he said.
Sixth news item
‘Yes, we were romantically involved, but that shouldn’t disqualify me‘:
The Fulton county district attorney, Fani Willis, and Nathan Wade, a special prosecutor working on the case against Donald Trump and 14 other defendants, confirmed for the first time on Friday they had a romantic relationship. But they denied any wrongdoing and Willis said she should not be disqualified from the case.
Seventh news item
Special counsel Jack Smith’s team has questioned several witnesses about a closet and a so-called “hidden room” inside former President Donald Trump’s residence at Mar-a-Lago that the FBI didn’t check while searching the estate in August 2022, sources familiar with the matter told ABC News…
According to sources, some investigators involved in the case came to later believe that the closet, which was locked on the day of the search, should have been opened and checked.
As investigators would later learn, Trump allegedly had the closet’s lock changed while his attorney was in Mar-a-Lago’s basement, searching for classified documents in a storage room that he was told would have all such documents.
Eighth news item
Another Russia critic stealthily moved to solitary confinement:
Lawyers for Russian opposition figure Vladimir Kara-Murza Jr., who is serving a 25-year sentence for treason, revealed Tuesday he has been transferred to another prison in Siberia and placed in solitary confinement again over an alleged minor infraction…One of his lawyers, Maria Eismont, told Russia’s independent Novaya Gazeta newspaper that she received a letter in which he said he was transferred to Penal Colony No. 7 in the city of Omsk and placed in a restricted housing unit for at least four months. In the letter, a copy of which his other lawyer, Vadim Prokhorov, posted on Facebook, Kara-Murza said prison officials on Friday accused him of disobeying a command that he said wasn’t even given to him…
Kara-Murza, who twice survived poisonings that he blamed on Russian authorities, has rejected the charges against him as punishment for standing up to Putin and likened the proceedings to the show trials under Soviet dictator Josef Stalin.
Have a good weekend.
–Dana
Hello.
Dana (8e902f) — 2/2/2024 @ 11:27 amIt there are still documents at Mar-a-Lago, I’d favor a healthy period of incarceration for contempt.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/2/2024 @ 11:50 am“Joe Biden has requested a further $61 billion in funding for Kyiv but has so far been stonewalled by Republican hardliners”
When Republicans aren’t pouncing or seizing, they’re hardlining. You have to get near the last paragraph in the article to see what they’re hardlining about. Like Democrats, I wouldn’t expect the UK Telegraph to care much about our border security, and they clearly don’t.
Also left out is why Victor Orban came around. He had been rightly miffed that the EU was withholding funds allotted to Hungary while pushing to give funds to Ukraine. Orban put his country first, and the EU relented. This lesson will certainly be lost among the endless jumble of media misinformation. It’s not a lesson Democrats want to learn anyway.
lloyd (dcebd0) — 2/2/2024 @ 11:56 amThat’s a lot of desperation there, and there are problems upon problems for the judge to weigh in on this:
whembly (5f7596) — 2/2/2024 @ 11:59 amhttps://nymag.com/intelligencer/2024/02/fani-willis-has-problems-upon-problems.html
That’s a lot of desperation there
In the Trump camp? You betcha.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/2/2024 @ 12:14 pmhttps://alphanews.org/fire-at-building-housing-3-conservative-organizations-investigated-as-arson/
Some reporting on the arson committed against John Hinderaker’s office in Minnesota. So far a complete reporting blackout from the usual suspects.
NJRob (238da0) — 2/2/2024 @ 12:15 pm@5
Not really. At minimum, this pushes the court date past the election while dealing with all of these misconduct allegations. Not sure what the Judge would do, but the hearing to resolve this is Feb 15th, and who knows how long the Judge would take to resolve this.
I think, the best case scenario for Fani, is that the Judge removes both Fani and Wade, and that Wade’s co-prosecutors takes over. However, the defense is asking the judge to bar everyone from Fani’s office, so who know what would happen to the case then.
whembly (5f7596) — 2/2/2024 @ 12:19 pmClosing the gap is not what she is poised to do, although of course the only poll that counts is the one they take on Election Day (or Election Week or so)
She means the gap is results getting smaller from early polls through Iowa to New Hampshire.
From what I read, they were very glad (and anxious) to leave New York and head (this time) for California. (they got the money from a Catholic church to whom they gave false names – not that I suppose anyone that early would have recognized their real names)
It wasn’t actually illegal for them to leave New York City – no court order against it – it will only become illegal if and when they miss their next court date, so maybe there is no cause for extradition till then.
It all started when someone tried to resist arrest and was supported by some others.
The whole shelter they were in was a hotbed of crime and disorder.
That’s where all thieves and violent people gravitate to. Non-interfered with drug dealing, fights between people, carrying knives, arrests for shoplifting going back to October…and some more honest begging.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 2/2/2024 @ 12:21 pmNo shadow
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/2/2024 @ 12:22 pmThis disagreement was papered over by Qatar and Egypt and others by dividing the proposed ceasefire into three parts, in which some hostages would be released in the first two part on terms like the Black Friday November truce, and the details of Part 3 worked out later.
Things are pretty grim in Gaza. Women giving birth without clothes for the baby. Some amputees taken to Egypt for treatment, and then returned to Gaza.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 2/2/2024 @ 12:22 pmI think, the best case scenario for Fani
Is that the judge tosses the complaint out, calling it a “media-driven nothingburger”
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/2/2024 @ 12:23 pmHaley’s main goal is to stay in the race so that if Trump *does* implode, she’s the alternative.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/2/2024 @ 12:24 pmDeath wish (video)
Would you sell life insurance to this motorcyclist?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/2/2024 @ 12:44 pmRIP Carl Weathers (76). Best known as Apollo Creed in four
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/2/2024 @ 12:46 pmRocky films, as well as The Mandalorian.
Whembly,
You don’t have the benefit of seeing the Atlanta papers regularly and noticing trend lines. We started at experts saying “she’s toast if any of this is true” to, well, it’s kind of embarassing, but there is nothing in Georgia law requiring she recuse. It resembles what we have seen with the cntroversy around Clarence Thomas’ vacations.
There has been a big conspiracy theory that Willis developed this trial so she could get boyfriend Wade a soft gig. Merchant implies this in her filing, and our own Mr. Finkelman started offering theories along those lines. Willis specificly denies they were having a romantic relationship wen he was selected. Wade also indicates that he took a significant revenue hit in taking the case. I have linked below, because Willis’ filing to the court is embedded in the article — and that makes interesting reading. (By the way, $250/hr for counsel is well below market rates in Atlanta)
https://www.ajc.com/politics/breaking-fulton-special-prosecutor-admits-personal-relationship-with-da-in-trump-case/YOPP3SAOJVHUDESW3RR6UWTB2E/
Appalled (b5dec0) — 2/2/2024 @ 12:47 pmI doubt Trump will implode over the next two months. After that, Trump should have enough delegates to win the nomination; and it is highly unlikely that a Trump dominated convention would select anyone else, not matter what happens.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/2/2024 @ 12:48 pm#16
Both Kevin and Rip can be right on this (and I think they are). Haley’s best chance is now. In 2028, she is eight-nine years from her last government gig, and MAGA will not have forgiven her.
Appalled (b5dec0) — 2/2/2024 @ 12:57 pmLOL!🤣🤣🤣
Monmouth University/WaPo South Carolina Primary Poll 2/1/24:
More:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/2/2024 @ 1:06 pmNot much of a chance, though.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/2/2024 @ 1:09 pm19 — Her best chance is the Supreme Court disqualifying Trump. That’s not quite a black swan event, but only about a 3-5% chance.
Appalled (b5dec0) — 2/2/2024 @ 1:11 pmThat’s impossible. Kevin thinks Trump will lose to Haley, while I think (and the polls show) that won’t be happening.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/2/2024 @ 1:12 pmAnd in 2028, after being out of the public eye for four more years (and public office since 2018 when she resigned from the Trump Administration), no one will remember her. She should go back to her corporate boards where she can make real money doing nothing.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/2/2024 @ 1:16 pmHaley has a better chance of becoming President than Trump being disqualified by the Supreme Court.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/2/2024 @ 1:19 pmShe does. Betting market put her possibility at 7% (your link) and I put Trump disqualification at 3-5%.
Appalled (65ffe7) — 2/2/2024 @ 1:30 pmBased on what?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/2/2024 @ 1:31 pm25 — Based on the fact there are at least some conservative amici briefs that support such a move, and one could see someone like Roberts (and Kavanaugh) wanting to defend his institution by finding an originalist reason to disqualify a would-be authoritarian.
Unfortunately, there is no polling available. 🙂
Appalled (b5dec0) — 2/2/2024 @ 1:44 pm@15
We’re still at the defense asking for:
1) case to be thrown out
2) if not 1, Fani / Wade and her office kicked off
3) this establishes a record in the case that can be used on appeal if Judge dismisses the complaint.
People forget, these are serious crimes whereby the defendant’s personal liberty is a stake, so what you’re seeing are vigorous, bare-knuckle legal fight by a competent defense attorney (*cough* unlike a certain Trump lawyer *cough*)
Absolutely not comparable in any way shape or form.
The precise start of their relationship has no bearing on this issue… it’s just an attempt to deflect.
The ordeal is bizarre… such as that Wade filed for divorce from his ex the day after Willis hired him. Sure that could just be a coincidence, but there’s also the question of why Willis chose Wade at all. He had never prosecuted a felony, ever, and had specialized in personal-injury law. The fact that she picked him over other well qualified attorneys on her staff is weird.
Yeah, he took a hit because he spent quite a bit going on lavish vacations with his boss.
whembly (5f7596) — 2/2/2024 @ 1:52 pm@26
Funny you say that in the face of an actual authoritarian sitting in the Whitehouse as we speak.
whembly (5f7596) — 2/2/2024 @ 1:58 pmlol!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/2/2024 @ 2:04 pmObviously you’ve never lived under a true authoritarian.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/2/2024 @ 2:06 pmFunny you say that in the face of an actual authoritarian sitting in the Whitehouse as we speak.
whembly (5f7596) — 2/2/2024 @ 1:58 pm
An attempted autogolpe is as authoritarian as it gets.
norcal (403962) — 2/2/2024 @ 2:07 pm@29
I’m mocking the statement that Trump’s a “wannabe-authoritarian” when Joe Biden had that following:
whembly (5f7596) — 2/2/2024 @ 2:10 pm-massive lockdown polices
-his administration tried to spin a “Ministry of Truth™” department
-his administration pressured social media companies to push regime favorable narratives.
@31
The idea that Trump tried “a coup” is something that only fabulist perpetuates.
whembly (5f7596) — 2/2/2024 @ 2:11 pmThe idea that Trump tried “a coup” is something that only fabulist perpetuates.
whembly (5f7596) — 2/2/2024 @ 2:11 pm
Really? Mike Pence could have easily given in to Trump’s pressure tactics.
norcal (403962) — 2/2/2024 @ 2:16 pmWhembly,
You ought to read the Willis filing — it answers the questions as well as they are going to be answered about Wade’s qualifications. I mean, you aren’t going to find these quotes in your Fox News diet:
By the way, Merchant claimed that the unsealed records in the divorce would back up her claims. They didn’t. That’s a real blow to her credibility (don’t think its not) and I really doubt the court is going to allow a fishing expedition unsupported by much of anything
I think Willis should not have decided to have a relationship with a co-worker, for the reason we now see. However, Trumpworld specializes in slander, and there is very little reason to pay much attention to the mud.
Appalled (b5dec0) — 2/2/2024 @ 2:22 pmThe original post contains links to each amicus brief.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/2/2024 @ 2:28 pm@34
Had Pence went through with it, it still wouldn’t be a coup. Pence “counting” the electoral count isn’t he coronation. It’s merely a ministerial role, for which Pence did the right thing to objecting Trump’s cockamame legal theory.
There were no where near enough votes in the House to reject the initial slates, even if Pence/Trump convinced Congress to reconsider the electoral slates.
whembly (5f7596) — 2/2/2024 @ 2:34 pm@35
I have. It’s not persuasive.
You really should read this:
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2024/02/fani-willis-has-problems-upon-problems.html
The author drives home the point about Wade’s credentials:
whembly (5f7596) — 2/2/2024 @ 2:37 pmA failed attempt to subvert a legitimate election is forever disqualifying. I can’t understand how anybody thinks otherwise.
norcal (403962) — 2/2/2024 @ 2:39 pmProblem is, Haley isn’t closing the gap between herself and Trump. Today the 538 average has Trump at +54 over Haley. On January 1st, Trump was at +50.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/2/2024 @ 2:41 pmA coup isn’t less of coup even if it failed. The intent is still there.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/2/2024 @ 2:42 pm@36
Past SCOTUS cases did state that POTUS isn’t an officer of the US, with the distinction between delegated authority vs elected authority.
But, I think the whole Amendment 14, sec 3 argument leaves quite a bit of ambiguity.
whembly (5f7596) — 2/2/2024 @ 2:45 pm@41
You saying that the behaviors by Trump in 2020 befits a “coup” is a hyperbolic attempt to negatively frame the argument in bad faith to shut down the conversation.
You are desensitizing the severity of the “coup” or “insurrection”.
The intent, no matter how dumb the rationale was, was to use every legal means to challenge the election.
Do I wish Trump simply accepted it, and moved on?
Absolutely.
But, I’m not going to sit back and let others re-frame the narrative to something that it wasn’t.
whembly (5f7596) — 2/2/2024 @ 2:50 pmI won’t let you put words in my mouth, I never mentioned Trump’s name. My statement would apply to any coup attempt by anyone.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/2/2024 @ 2:55 pmBreaking:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/2/2024 @ 3:00 pm@44
Then why interject into the conversation where it would be obvious to assume that you were talking about Trump?
whembly (c88dc4) — 2/2/2024 @ 3:05 pmBecause you jumped to a pre-determined conclusion?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/2/2024 @ 3:08 pm@Appalled, see the defense’s replay to Fani Willis’ submission:
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24401699-roman-reply-to-willis-disqualification-response
Also, this is just the initial response to argue with the Judge to keep the Feb 15 on the docket.
It appears Roman’s attorney will be submitting a much more detailed response to Willis’ statements.
whembly (c88dc4) — 2/2/2024 @ 3:19 pm@47
You’ll need to forgive me when you’re inserting yourself into the conversation streams.
whembly (c88dc4) — 2/2/2024 @ 3:20 pmit is highly unlikely that a Trump dominated convention would select anyone else, not matter what happens.
Even if he has a stroke, joins the Communist Party, or dies.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/2/2024 @ 3:51 pmand MAGA will not have forgiven her.
And I will not have forgiven or forgotten MAGA. Hopefully everyone else will have forgotten them, just like Italians forgot Il Duce by 1947.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/2/2024 @ 3:55 pmRip, you really need to fess up how much you want Trump to be re-elected. The pretense doesn’t match your feet.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/2/2024 @ 3:56 pmThat’s impossible. Kevin thinks Trump will lose to Haley, while I think (and the polls show) that won’t be happening.
That’s not quite true. I think that there is a good chance that Trump will manage to lose, and that Haley will be the last one standing.
Wait for the rape charges.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/2/2024 @ 3:58 pmHaley has a better chance of becoming President than Trump being disqualified by the Supreme Court.
I would be shocked if they disqualified him. Not only would they have to find that the 14th Amendment can be activated separate from a conviction for insurrection (for which he is not charged), that this can be shown absent absent a conviction or any kind, AND that it has been so shown.
It is dimly possible that they will assert that a conviction on attempting to bugger the Electoral College would be sufficient.
It is just slightly possible that they could assert that being subject to incarceration is disqualifying until the prison term has been completed, but I’m not aware that anyone is arguing that. Yet.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/2/2024 @ 4:04 pmFunny you say that in the face of an actual authoritarian sitting in the Whitehouse as we speak.
In some respects every president since Reagan has been a statist control-freak. “Authoritarian” is simply a matter of degree.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/2/2024 @ 4:07 pm-massive lockdown polices
Nearly all lockdowns started (and some ended) under Donald Trump.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/2/2024 @ 4:09 pmAgain, you’re letting your imagination get the better of you. Nothing I have ever posted here could lead you to that conclusion. It’s the vast number of Republican voters, not me, that wants Trump to be re-elected.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/2/2024 @ 4:18 pmFacts absolutely not in evidence.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/2/2024 @ 4:19 pmFor the completist: All of the filings in Trump v. Anderson
There are an astounding number of amicus briefs.
J. Michael Luttig et al:
Brief of 12 former Republican members of Congress:
Brief of Ilya Somin:
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/2/2024 @ 4:33 pmFun note:
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/2/2024 @ 4:34 pmFacts absolutely not in evidence.
Behavior is. E Jean Carroll would have been able to claim rape, but for the statute of limitations. Mr Grab-them-by-the-pussy is likely to have serious skeletons in those locked closets. Be interesting to see the actual text of some of these non-disclosure agreements.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/2/2024 @ 4:37 pmI have ever posted here could lead you to that conclusion
I am not alone in reaching it.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/2/2024 @ 4:38 pmWhembly,
If Fani actually lied in her filing and that can be proved with something (other than some “witness” dredged up from
Someplace or other) she has put herself in a bigger mess. That’s not the first time it happened. I don’t trust the source, though. I expect, though that some bed sharing did happen in Aruba in November, 2022, however.
Don’t be surprised if Merchant doesn’t get to have her hearing. She claimed material in her filing lived in divorce records that just weren’t there. Now she makes additional charges after not substantiating her first set.
My guess is that Fani Willis wanted someone she knew and trusted working with her. It explains her pick far more than the hot sex tale Ashley Merchant wants to sell.
Appalled (157a33) — 2/2/2024 @ 4:43 pmFrom the amicus brief filed by 15 historians:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/2/2024 @ 4:50 pmIt will depend on what the Georgia rule is about the District Attorney exercising independent judgment on the appointment and conduct of the special prosecutor.
nk (772e52) — 2/2/2024 @ 4:53 pmThen there are a lot of misguided people here. You may think I am promoting Trump by posting polls that have shown persistently leading all other Republican candidates, but I would do the same if any of the other candidates were leading (and revel in the fact he was behind). I understand their (and your) frustrations that DeSantis or Haley or Christie or whomever were not leading the pack, but that doesn’t change the facts on the ground.
Republican voters want Trump. That is be all and end all of it. Not posting polls that showed Trump as the leading candidate wouldn’t change any results. Trump would still win.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/2/2024 @ 4:58 pmThis is important and a refutation of the Civil-War-only attack.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/2/2024 @ 5:04 pmRepublican voters want Trump. That is be all and end all of it. Not posting polls that showed Trump as the leading candidate wouldn’t change any results. Trump would still win.
By studiously refusing to put any part of yourself into these posts, save for the occasional snark, uniformly proclaiming the inevitability of Trump, you leave one thinking that your preference is one you are unwilling to voice here.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/2/2024 @ 5:08 pmBTW, that argument by [black] historians effectively argues that the disqualification should not be limited to Trump.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/2/2024 @ 5:10 pmA second amicus brief from 25 historians:
Footnotes omitted, as they were in post 64..
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/2/2024 @ 5:10 pmThat’s your problem, not mine. I consistently advocated for Chris Christie, to no avail here or in the real world. But I refuse to engage in fantasies about what I wish would happen, I can only deal with the world as it is. The only inevitability about Trump is that he consistently led in the polls. No amount of wishcasting could change that.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/2/2024 @ 5:14 pmBiden bombs Iranian targets.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/2/2024 @ 5:17 pmNo amount of wishcasting could change that.
Millions doing the “wishcasting” (voting) could.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/2/2024 @ 5:18 pmNot sure what argument you are talking about, the historians named in the brief in post 64 (Jill Lepore, David Blight, Drew Gilpin Faust, and John Fabian Witt) are white.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/2/2024 @ 5:18 pmThere are quite a few good arguments on both sides. If the Court’s members believe that Trump instigated the insurrection (and that it WAS an insurrection), and they are convinced that proof can be obtained outside of a trial, it’s possible they will disqualify, or set clear grounds for some future disqualification. I doubt they want this coming back.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/2/2024 @ 5:22 pm@74: I misread something in the PDF title. Although the white professor of African-American studies was a surprise.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/2/2024 @ 5:24 pmChanging the subject; we’re not talking about voters, we talking about posters here. There has been a whole lot of wishcasting going on here.
So far the voters wish for Trump, and the polls of upcoming primaries forecast much the same. As the pollster said about South Carolina,
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/2/2024 @ 5:24 pmhttps://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/biden-takes-aim-at-grocery-stores-for-ripping-people-off-amid-continued-high-prices-played-for-suckers/ar-BB1hErFO
Ahh, here’s the communist authoritarian speaking. Threatening grocery stores for not fixing prices in his favor. He’s speaking his inner Chavez.
Why are people supporting this SOB again?
NJRob (eb56c3) — 2/2/2024 @ 5:27 pmGood news – bad news
California is about to get lots and lots of rain, and will store almost none of it.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/2/2024 @ 5:27 pmIt’s NOT inflation! It’s HIGH PRICES!!11!!!
If he is right, and every last producer is jacking up prices with abandon, then the entire capitalist system and the “invisible hand” is a fraud, and the last 250 years have been a hoax.
Or, maybe he’s got a problem with us using our own two eyes instead of his juked stats.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/2/2024 @ 5:30 pmTVs are really cheap though.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/2/2024 @ 5:31 pmFirst to secede, for sure.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/2/2024 @ 5:32 pmJust gotta share:
qdpsteve again (a18cf6) — 2/2/2024 @ 5:33 pmAlthough I disagree with him sometimes, Kevin M is IMHO far more the ‘objective observer’ that Rip loves to imagine himself as.
Of all the crimes Trump has committed against America, getting Biden elected President was by far the worst. Kamala Harris waiting in the wings, and Nikki Haley as the alternative, make it exceptionally brutal and heinous.
nk (69ded8) — 2/2/2024 @ 6:40 pmLOL!
Rip Murdock (28c72c) — 2/2/2024 @ 7:04 pmIt is now guaranteed that Trump will not face his election subversion trial (or any Federal trial) in March, and possibly not until after the primaries:
>
Rip Murdock (28c72c) — 2/2/2024 @ 7:23 pmIf at first you don’t secede, try try and try again.
With apologies to (among others) Robert the Bruce.
Rip Murdock (28c72c) — 2/2/2024 @ 7:32 pmUltimate wish-casting:
Got an email from the Haley campaign about being a convention delegate. Probably sent out thousands of those, and then there’s the chances, but what the heck, why not?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/2/2024 @ 7:33 pmHopefully, no one will ask Halley about Nullification.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/2/2024 @ 7:34 pmIf the SC rules against Trump, it had better be 9-0, or maybe 8-1. 5-4 just won’t work.
If they rule FOR Trump, 5-4 would be pretty bad, too.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/2/2024 @ 8:00 pmShooter McGavin memorializes Mr. Weathers. RIP, Chubbs.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 2/2/2024 @ 8:03 pmIf at first you don’t secede, try try and try again.
That is pretty much why 14.3 exists.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/2/2024 @ 8:05 pmNo, he bombed targets in Iraq and Syria. He didn’t attack the source, Iran, where the f-cking drones are made, so it’s a pinprick.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 2/2/2024 @ 8:07 pmTrump-financed astroturf. Like his hair, the union “support” is a big lie all the way down to the roots.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 2/2/2024 @ 8:30 pmSo reading these briefs, at least as far as the summary arguments, many of which seem the same.
1. The “Officer of the United States” argument. This is a game-ender if it succeeds, and it seems to be a yes/no issue. There are many reasons, historical, practical — and failing the laugh test — why this pedantic argument must fail, and only Talmudic rendering of sentence structure to favor its success.
2. Trump did not engage in insurrection, or it was not an insurrection in which he engaged. He engaged in something. That something led to the storming of Congress, invasion of both Chambers, at least two deaths, and the evacuation of the House, Senate and Vice President to secure areas. It did not end until superior force arrived.
The goals were not achieved, but this is not an affirmative defense. A failed putsch is still a putsch. Any observer knew it for what it was. It is reasonable to term this an insurrection, and the existence of other potential insurrections does not change that.
3. There must be proof, in a court of law, with all the bells ans whistles of due process, before participation in insurrection can be established. The respondents claim that there was such. Others say that it was only due-ish process, and in any event no objective crime was charged or proven, only that Trump seemed to be involved in what seemed to be an insurrection.
And maybe this is the case. I dunno. But it would seem that a SC holding here that established some further process would not help Trump in the end.
4. 14.3 is not self-executing. Even if Trump were convicted of everything he has been charged with, the only thing that Congress has instituted with a penalty of disqualification is a single crime of “insurrection”, and Trump has not been charged under that.
Case law is mixed, and the circumstances differ. In 1868, it was easy to show that a person who had taken the federal oath had violated that oath by siding with the Confederacy — matter of records. In that situation it was self-executing and people were dismissed from office after a short hearing.
In this case showing that Trump had engaged in insurrection requires a due process determination of some sort. It is not simply a matter of record. The respondents assert that there was such a determination and that it wasn’t even close.
The more I read of these briefs, I see the plaintiffs case as weak, ultimately resting on a due process claim. Which Trump could lose.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/2/2024 @ 8:55 pmNo, he bombed targets in Iraq and Syria.
He bombed Iranian targets in those places. The full headline:
U.S. Strikes Over 85 Targets at 7 Sites in Iraq and Syria Against Iran’s Forces and Proxies
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/2/2024 @ 8:57 pmIt’s not a strike at the source of the problem, i.e., Iran. If we don’t sink their some or most of their navy or obliterate some or most of their drone manufacturing, they’ll see it as just another weak response, IMO. The Iranian theocrats need to pay, and they need to feel it.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 2/2/2024 @ 9:18 pm@kevin@79 There are a bunch of efforts up here in nor-cal to shove it all into various aquifers. Unfortunately there are apparently a limited number of places where you can do that properly. It seems to have something to do with the gravel to clay ratio. IDK what they are doing with it in socal.
Nic (896fdf) — 2/2/2024 @ 9:49 pmFrom a NeverTrumper POV, the GA trial was going to be the last to happen, so Ms. Willis’ ethical shortcomings aren’t terribly relevant to the election.
The most important and most easily provable case is in Ms. Cannon’s court but, the way she’s going, I doubt we’ll see a verdict before Election Day, and maybe not even a trial, despite the ease of the case for Special Counsel Smith.
No, Mr. Smith will have a delayed trial on Trump’s election interference case, and it’s touch-and-go whether Trump will be convicted before Election Day, and it’s past due for the DC Circuit to make their ruling on absolute immunity.
What it may all come down is Bragg’s case on Stormy Daniels, the weakest of them all. Trump is lucky to have such third rate detractors.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 2/2/2024 @ 10:39 pmFor all the congressional chicken hawks and draft dodgers Sen. Chuck Hagel a vietnam war veteran said it best when he told vietnam war draft dogger and chicken hawk dead eye dick cheney If you want to go to war so bad you be on the first chopper into baghdad! Cheney like other chicken hawks decided to let others do his fighting for him. You want to attack Iran get yourself a gun and drive into Iran on the tehran highway. Any takers?
asset (bd3881) — 2/2/2024 @ 11:08 pmFor all the congressional chicken hawks and draft dodgers Sen. Chuck Hagel a vietnam war veteran said it best when he told vietnam war draft dogger and chicken hawk dead eye dick cheney If you want to go to war so bad you be on the first chopper into baghdad! Cheney like other chicken hawks decided to let others do his fighting for him. You want to attack Iran get yourself a gun and drive into Iran on the tehran highway.
asset (bd3881) — 2/2/2024 @ 11:10 pmHere is a comparison of charge vs Fani’s response.
https://www.ajc.com/politics/fulton-da-fani-willis-responds-a-closer-look-at-the-allegations-and-her-defense/LHMISQC7TNHCBPINKTTTTGCJYI/
This does not take into account the Ashleigh Merchant reply which, frankly, looks like she wants to do a sleazy trial in a televised hearing. The legal goal she’s going for is to get her guy’s case dismissed because the RICO charge against her guy is make-work for the boy toy. Good luck with that.
Note to Whembly — Fani Willis does the brass knuckles too.
Appalled (c08a48) — 2/3/2024 @ 7:04 amThe Loser is proposing a regressive tax on Americans.
Jim Miller (751a6b) — 2/3/2024 @ 8:19 amSecession and insurrection are two different things. Trump arguably attempted to commit insurrection (something he won’t be indicted for by next week), but he didn’t attempt secession.
Rip Murdock (28c72c) — 2/3/2024 @ 8:28 amIt’s not a strike at the source of the problem
Yes, and the Speaker agrees with you.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/3/2024 @ 8:48 amFrom the Rampell column I linked to at 103:
Among other things, the Loser’s tariff proposal might double the inflation rate.
Jim Miller (751a6b) — 2/3/2024 @ 8:50 amSecession and insurrection are two different things.
Secession is simply state-level insurrection.
The amendment, passed after the Civil War and targeted at current and future “insurrections”, dealt with both. They did not want the architects of secession back in roles of power where they could continue their agitation with further insurrections.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/3/2024 @ 8:52 amThe more I read of these briefs, I see the plaintiffs case as weak, ultimately resting on a due process claim. Which Trump could lose.
Rephrased: The more I read of these briefs, I see the petitioners case as weak, ultimately resting on a no-due-process claim. Which Trump could lose.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/3/2024 @ 8:57 amIDK what they are doing with it in socal.
There have been repeated proposals to use local depressions and bowls in the low desert (see Lake Perris) for long-term storage. These fail repeatedly for two reasons: damage to the desert environment and the always-popular “even if you started now, it wouldn’t be ready for 10 years” refrain.
Part of the problem is the myopic absolutism of the endangered species act, where no colorably-different population of a species or subspecies can be put at risk by any action, even if that action is environmentally beneficial to other endangered species. Droughts kill. And there is always some 3-spot desert toad that is different than the normal 4-spot desert toad to put a kibosh on the whole thing.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/3/2024 @ 9:03 amThe Loser is proposing a regressive tax on Americans.
And here I disagree with Haley. A tariff is a tax, of course, but we have a lot of taxes like that. We have taxes on tobacco, both to discourage tobacco use and to fund some programs to mitigate the harms. These taxes are very regressive but that’s hardly the point.
Is a tax on certain imports, both to discourage the purchase of those imports and to mitigate the economic damage those imports cause, any different really? They can both be seen as sin taxes.
That some claim that tariffs are “paid” by the other country does not mean that is actual belief. It’s just that politicians are dishonest fu**s. To point out that a tax is a tax is not exactly brave, if you oppose the tax.
The real argument to make against tariffs is not that they are a tax, but that the trade they affect is beneficial. That’s a hard argument to make as China drives everyone else out of the solar panel business by using slave labor and not having any pollution laws.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/3/2024 @ 9:11 amWhat do you think the more probable Iranian response will be-apologies for killing our soldiers, or unleashing Hezbollah (or direct Iranian missile attacks) on Israel, terrorist attacks (such as suicide bombings in theaters, airports, and malls) in Europe and the US, etc.?
Rip Murdock (b7c7da) — 2/3/2024 @ 9:54 amIran has already escalated, Rip.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 2/3/2024 @ 10:36 amJust like Putin perceived Biden weakness and became emboldened to invade Ukraine after his feckless withdrawal from Afghanistan, Iran is seeing the same thing and amping up attacks through its proxies.
I remember a time when Peace Through Strength was actually a thing, like when Reagan shredded half of Iran’s navy in less than a day because of their belligerence. They got real quiet after that.
Avoiding the question. If the West attacks Iran proper, do you think Iran will cease its attacks or will they escalate their retaliation and attack the West as I outlined?
Rip Murdock (b7c7da) — 2/3/2024 @ 12:16 pmIran has been at war with us since 1979. They should have been stopped the moment they abrogated the NNPT, just like Israel stopped Saddam. Should we wait until they have a dozen bombs to hide behind?
And really, Iranian attacks on US soil? Fear-monger much?
How did that work for Afghanistan? Pretty sure they could have done without 2001-2017, and will be VERY unlikely to let anything of that sort happen again.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/3/2024 @ 12:17 pmThat was then. Things have changed over the last 36 years. Reagan failed to retaliate after the much larger 1983 Marine barracks bombing in Lebanon (the 40th anniversary was last October), which killed 241 Americans (none died when the USS Samuel Roberts was damaged.).
Source. Footnotes omitted.
Rip Murdock (b7c7da) — 2/3/2024 @ 12:31 pmYou criticize me for not using my imagination, and then you criticize me for thinking “outside the box.” It’s entirely possible that there are IRGC and Quds Force sleeper cells in the US right now.
Rip Murdock (b7c7da) — 2/3/2024 @ 12:35 pmWatch The Siege; the terrorist attack scenario is plausible, other parts not so much (maybe).
Rip Murdock (b7c7da) — 2/3/2024 @ 12:44 pmNews outside the bubble: Second republican pleads guilty to shooting at new mexico elected officials at their homes. (CNN)
asset (b7fd5a) — 2/3/2024 @ 12:46 pm@111 somebody gets it.
asset (b7fd5a) — 2/3/2024 @ 12:49 pmRead my post @100. War hawks Don’t let others do your fighting for you. If you want to attack Iran get your gun go to baghdad rent a jeep and get on the tehran highway. 3 african-american national guard from Georgia died. How many here who want to bomb bomb bomb Iran our african – american. Not this weekend anyway one of my young race girls Doriane Pin is racing in a formula 4 in dubai and I while she is racing the boys I don’t want her dodging rocket attacks. Doriane will be the next woman to race in formula One after 50 years un less Jamie Chadwick beat her their.
asset (b7fd5a) — 2/3/2024 @ 1:03 pmThere was no avoiding. Read my response again.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 2/3/2024 @ 1:21 pmRIP legendary MC5 co-founder, guitarist, and singer Wayne Kramer:
Rip Murdock (b7c7da) — 2/3/2024 @ 1:22 pmI read your response, and it doesn’t address what you think Iran might do in response to a direct attack by the West. What happened 36 years ago is irrelevant.
Rip Murdock (b7c7da) — 2/3/2024 @ 1:25 pmRIP actor Don Murray (94):
Rip Murdock (b7c7da) — 2/3/2024 @ 1:31 pmIf you don’t think Iran will escalate its attacks on the US (as I speculated above), that’s a perfectly valid position; but I think it’s unlikely.
A direct attack on Iran, whether to destroy its Navy or the IRGC headquarters, and especially if downtown Tehran or Qom are bombed (as some Republican Senators have advocated) would set off massive retaliation by Iran and its proxies. I don’t think the American people or government are ready for that.
Rip Murdock (b7c7da) — 2/3/2024 @ 1:40 pmThat’s just your opinion, based on your own personal speculation. I gave you an actual incident history and the aftermath.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 2/3/2024 @ 1:51 pmYou criticize me for not using my imagination, and then you criticize me for thinking “outside the box.”
No, you are so far inside the box, you can’t see the walls. Any nation which brought a campaign of terror to the USA would be at war with us in short order, just as Afghanistan was, and Iraq for standing too close.
And as we showed in Iraq, we can bring a big war half-way around the world. It may be that we cannot win the peace afterwards, but we can sure as F kill every last person who pissed us off.
Iran would be better off with a Pahlavi restoration anyway.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/3/2024 @ 1:56 pmA direct attack on Iran, whether to destroy its Navy or the IRGC headquarters, and especially if downtown Tehran or Qom are bombed
I guess this is why there are so many Iraqi terrorist attacks in the US.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/3/2024 @ 1:57 pmContinuing to read the Trump v. Anderson briefs, and the respondent’s side has much the better of it. The Trump side seems to hinge their argument on the nonsensical (the president is not an officer) or the debunked (the amendment is not self-enforcing). The claim to a need for due process is well-taken, but what is needed for it to be substantive?
Assuming that the Court doesn’t punt on some procedural arrgument, what do they do about due process?
1. Say that the CO trial was sufficient.
2. Say it wasn’t but _____ would be.
3. Say only a conviction on a charge of Insurrection would qualify.
I know that everyone says that it’s a very long shot that they’d rule against Trump, but there aren’t a lot of Trump supporters on the Court. Maybe not any, and does he really deserve the benefit of the doubt?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/3/2024 @ 2:16 pmIf Trump were disqualified, the GOP race would come unstuck, of course. MAGA would have to turn its eyes elsewhere, assuming that Congress did not remove the disqualification. I doubt they’d turn to Haley.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/3/2024 @ 2:18 pmRIP US Army Captain (Ret.) and Medal of Honor recipient Larry Taylor (81):
From his Medal of Honor citation:
Taylor’s other personal decorations include the Distinguished Flying Cross (4), Bronze Star Medal, Air Medal (43), and the Republic of Vietnam Gallantry Cross, with 2 bronze stars.
Rip Murdock (b7c7da) — 2/3/2024 @ 2:28 pmApparently the destruction of the Iranian Navy didn’t take, and Reagan’s failure to respond to Marine barracks bombing convinced Iran the US wouldn’t respond to a much more deadly attack.
Rip Murdock (b7c7da) — 2/3/2024 @ 2:32 pmTucker Carlson is in Moscow, home to Vlad the Butcher, presumably awaiting instructions.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 2/3/2024 @ 2:34 pmThat’s right, and I’m asking for yours, but apparently you don’t have one.
Rip Murdock (b7c7da) — 2/3/2024 @ 2:34 pmDon’t be obtuse. The US hasn’t done anything like that……yet.
Rip Murdock (b7c7da) — 2/3/2024 @ 2:39 pmJust because Iran behaved one way 36 years ago doesn’t mean they will behave the same way know.
Rip Murdock (b7c7da) — 2/3/2024 @ 2:41 pmAs I have been saying all along.
Rip Murdock (b7c7da) — 2/3/2024 @ 2:43 pmExcept I gave you one. This isn’t hard.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 2/3/2024 @ 2:43 pmI guess we’ll find out over the next several months.
Rip Murdock (b7c7da) — 2/3/2024 @ 2:45 pmWe’ll see.
Rip Murdock (b7c7da) — 2/3/2024 @ 2:50 pmIf Trump is disqualified in only a few minor states, but has enough convention delegates to be nominated, I would expect a split, with Trump’s delegates walking out, followed by an independent presidential campaign. The remaining delegates could nominate Haley, but who knows?
Rip Murdock (b7c7da) — 2/3/2024 @ 2:57 pmCorrection to post 131:
Rip Murdock (b7c7da) — 2/3/2024 @ 3:00 pmU.S. and U.K. launch airstrikes targeting Iran-backed Houthis in Yemen
Rip Murdock (b7c7da) — 2/3/2024 @ 3:04 pmCan we get real? The Democrats did not install Ronna McDaniel as Chair of the RNC, engage in nine years of smears and lawfare to dirty up Trump (including two phony impeachments), and get the Pentagon to fix the Super Bowl and coopt Taylor Swift, in order to have Biden running against anybody other than Trump. Only Trump can get Biden reelected and the Democrats are not going to allow anything or anybody to keep him from being the Republican nominee.
nk (0f57ec) — 2/3/2024 @ 3:05 pm“but there aren’t a lot of Trump supporters on the Court”
I figure all are 3-digit IQ’s. Spouses I don’t know….
AJ_Liberty (0a0925) — 2/3/2024 @ 3:07 pm#110 Haley did not say that the tariffs proposed by the Loser are regressive, I did.
The point isn’t hard to understand, though perhaps I should have said something more nuanced, like “regressive in their likely impact”.
Tariffs are, in effect, a sales tax on imported goods. Since poor people generally save little, they pay a higher proportion of their income with most sales taxes, compared to the rich.
(Here’s a much fuller explanation.)
Jim Miller (dd40b3) — 2/3/2024 @ 3:50 pmSixty-five years ago today
Rip Murdock (b7c7da) — 2/3/2024 @ 4:06 pmOr Republican voters.
Rip Murdock (b7c7da) — 2/3/2024 @ 4:08 pmAlvin Bragg presses charges, gets b!tch slapped
As for Bragg’s violent perps who assaulted NYPD:
Bragg still has his NeverTrump MVP credentials going for him.
lloyd (556417) — 2/3/2024 @ 4:43 pmThe only “invisible hands” were the business interests writing checks to Milton Friedman to keep on being their propagandist. The only rule merchants follow is “whatever the market will bear”. The maximum price that they can sell their goods for.
Americans are consumers. In both senses of the word. We eat a lot and we buy a lot of gee-gaws. Up to the maximum price we are in a position to pay, and for some there are credit cards too. Whether it’s eggs or iPhones.
Biden figures that Americans will pay a 10% additional markup and it can either go into the Treasury or into the merchants’ profit margins. And he’d rather have it go into the Treasury. Because, in the absence of a tariff, the merchants will not hesitate one second to impose a 10% markup if they think that “the market will bear it”.
nk (72c3e0) — 2/3/2024 @ 4:48 pmThat’s all he needs to some. They would support the most evil entity possible if it’s to “stop Trump.”
I also see it’s complete radio silence on a Republican blogger/liberty lawyer whose office was fire-bombed by likely leftists to shut him and his organization up. Not a word.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 2/3/2024 @ 5:11 pmTrump’s delegates walking out, followed by an independent presidential campaign.
Most states bar an independent and/or third party candidate from the general election ballot who previously participated in a party primary. Only Iowa, Connecticut and New York lack such laws.
https://ballotpedia.org/When_states_adopted_sore_loser_laws
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/3/2024 @ 5:44 pmIf Trump was disqualified from the office, it wouldn’t matter what he wanted to do. I would not expect a narrow SC decision favoring Colorado’s unique case, as that would just be chaos. It’s going to be a broad decision, one way or the other. If they do a narrow one, they’ll be back at it before spring.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/3/2024 @ 5:47 pmTucker Carlson is in Moscow, home to Vlad the Butcher, presumably awaiting instructions.
An oil change and a tune-up. Or maybe he’s negotiating Trump’s defection.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/3/2024 @ 5:49 pmDon’t be obtuse. The US hasn’t done anything like that……yet.
I’m pretty sure we bombed the heck out of Baghdad, with plenty of casualties. We killed a lot of their troops and hanged their government. And yet, no terrorist attacks here at home. We made it pretty clear that we would not stand for it after 9/11. Of course, Biden may be different than W, word is he opposed the raid that killed bin Laden.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/3/2024 @ 5:54 pmI figure all are 3-digit IQ’s.
God, I hope so. I’d want to believe it was 140+, but I confess there is at least one clunker.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/3/2024 @ 5:56 pmTariffs are, in effect, a sales tax on imported goods.
There are better understood as a sin tax. You may disagree about the “sin”, but that’s normal with sin taxes. Their job is to punish or discourage people from buying the product and sometimes to redress harms.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/3/2024 @ 5:58 pm(Here’s a much fuller explanation.)
Why don’t you just call us all dummies?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/3/2024 @ 5:59 pmBragg still has his NeverTrump MVP credentials going for him.
Yeah, all NeverTrump is just like Bragg. Just like all Trump’s supporters are like Klansmen.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/3/2024 @ 6:03 pmThe only rule merchants follow is “whatever the market will bear”. The maximum price that they can sell their goods for.
Unless, or course, they want to sell more than the other guy. Then they charge slightly less. Repeat as necessary. It’s the reason gas prices come down.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/3/2024 @ 6:04 pm@122 Thanks for the information.
asset (17ea45) — 2/3/2024 @ 6:52 pm@146 This is why the rich want to do away with income tax and institute national sales tax. In az poor people on minimum wage pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes and fees, then do the rich. State income tax is nearly a flat tax.
asset (17ea45) — 2/3/2024 @ 6:56 pm@151 When it happens to my side your side says they probably did it themselves! As I posted earlier second republican pleads guilty to shooting at democrat elected officials in their home. (DU) (CNN) At the time it happened democrats were accused of doing it themselves. joe pags show for one and their were others
asset (17ea45) — 2/3/2024 @ 7:06 pmSixty-five years ago today
Rip Murdock (b7c7da) — 2/3/2024 @ 4:06 pm
And Waylon Jennings took the bus instead (there is a Netflix doc about the 1985 We are the World recording session where Waylon quit because they were going to do verses in Swahili)!
But whew! Im probably not the only one who clicked on this and expected a space exploration milestone instead.
urbanleftbehind (6b10c0) — 2/3/2024 @ 9:50 pmhttps://twitter.com/BasedMikeLee/status/1753180993815523601?
He’s 100% right of course.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 2/4/2024 @ 4:50 amI thought McConnell did not want to undermine Captain Moroni’s key issue, either, at this point.
nk (271185) — 2/4/2024 @ 5:24 amKevin M (ed969f) — 2/3/2024 @ 5:47 pm
You can have a narrow decision overturning th Colorado decision.”Most probably the Supreme Court will say the case isn’t ripe and won’t be ripe until and unless Trump is elected president (or Congress votes him disqualified) next January, It could also say astate could pass anew law removing Trump from the ballot in that state and whether electors can defect to Trump will be a matter for consideration if it happens,
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 2/4/2024 @ 6:47 amSay only a federal court can determine that, and there is no need to decide it until after a president is elected and the proper time is between the commpletion of the election and the inauguration.
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 2/4/2024 @ 6:51 amSammy, I bet you $100 against a jelly donut that the justices do not want to put the decision off if they can avoid it, and VERY MUCH do not want to disqualify a president-elect.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/4/2024 @ 8:47 amSammy, who did you vote for in 2012 and 2016?
AJ_Liberty (0a0925) — 2/4/2024 @ 8:50 am@165 Good for Mike Lee. A party that puts drunk driving illegal migrants ahead of American interests can’t be trusted with a rushed border deal, or likely any border deal. As usual, the media will run interference and Nevertrump will buy into it.
lloyd (04f091) — 2/4/2024 @ 9:20 amAJ_Liberty (0a0925) — 2/4/2024 @ 8:50 am
I believe Romney and a probably spoiled vote for Paul Ryan in 2016, at the suggestion of Assemblyman Dov Hikind (who when I asked him if that would be counted, admitted he didn’t know!)
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 2/4/2024 @ 9:45 amDoes Trump look like Elvis?
Trump is a national cognitive test.
nk (61807e) — 2/4/2024 @ 9:56 amKevin M (ed969f) — 2/4/2024 @ 8:47 am
I think they do want to put the decision off, in the hopes hey can avoid it altogether – and that enough of them are not good at making political prognostications. I do think they VERY MUCH do not want to disqualify a president-elect, and they will avoid that if at all possible.
Besides, the Democrats will also sue to invalidate the election of (Elise Stefanik or whoever) as Vice President, (or else it would be almost pointless as Trump could mostly govern from a back room) on the grounds that, by favoring clemency for Jan 6 conspirators, she too, (after the fact) gave aid and comfort to the enemies of the constitution (see 14th amendment text)
It will be hard to distingi=uish the two cases, as far as ruling on a preliminary basis.
What the Supreme Court will do is hint, now, that they could disqualify a president after an election, but they are extremely unlikely to go through with it if it comes to that.
Instead of a jelly donut what about a green banana?.
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 2/4/2024 @ 10:00 amThose who don’t react to every Trump post probably win the cognitive test.
lloyd (04f091) — 2/4/2024 @ 10:05 amThose who don’t react to every Trump post probably win the cognitive test.
Oh yeah!?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/4/2024 @ 10:09 amappalled @15:
Yes, I said that the minor defendants have a better case and it could be that she made such a big case because of that,
But now I have an idea that fits the facts better:
Willis gave Wade the gig so that they could spend more time together.
Corroborating evidence: Wade filed for divorce the day after he got the gig.
(They weren’t ina “relationship” when he was hired, but they knew each other for several years.
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 2/4/2024 @ 10:09 amTrump is a national cognitive test.
No, he’s a test of where you live, what credentials you hold, how much you like office work, your view of your future and what the powers that be have done to you.
People can be disaffected and still be compos mentis, and the elites that pushed the Romneys, Clintons, Obamas and Woke culture on us have a lot to answer for themselves.
Sure, Trump is an asssh0le, but sometimes you want someone like that aimed at those who are fracking you.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/4/2024 @ 10:14 amNote: I admit that the “elite” have been very very good to me, but that does not mean that I can’t see the other POV.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/4/2024 @ 10:17 amWhat do I think? I think you’re a flipping lunatic.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 2/4/2024 @ 10:28 amYour side likes to do Jussie Smoletting and they also like committing arson.
NJRob (90d161) — 2/4/2024 @ 10:44 amNikki Haley gets her one-on-one debate with Donald Trump.
And it’s about as close as she’ll ever get.
Rip Murdock (b7c7da) — 2/4/2024 @ 10:45 amSource?
Rip Murdock (b7c7da) — 2/4/2024 @ 10:46 amSock it to him!*
SNL Cold Open with Trump in South Carolina
(special guest star)
——
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/4/2024 @ 10:58 am*classical reference
@180:
Dress Trump up in white and sequins and I think he’d look more like Liberace.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/4/2024 @ 10:59 amDid you know that there is no party registration in South Carolina? Presidential Primaries are open to all registered S.C. voters.
https://scvotes.gov/voters/voter-faq/
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/4/2024 @ 11:03 amKevin, I often think of the alternative reality (where I wish to you) with non-senile and decent candidates from each party, battling it out over policy issues without all the craziness.
What do you see for such a match up? I understand that the system no longer allows non-nutty deluxe people to run, but what if?
Simon Jester (69c7b2) — 2/4/2024 @ 11:03 amAt this point, I’d go with Haley vs Newsom. On a scale of 1 to 10, what we have now is a 1 vs a 2. Haley vs Newsom are both over a 5, with some alteration for political preference.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/4/2024 @ 11:07 amIt boggles my mind that RFK, Jr might be the alternative.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/4/2024 @ 11:08 amSimon, you’re in the ed biz. Where did we go wrong?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/4/2024 @ 11:09 amNon-sequitor. There are nearly 10,000 Iranian “students” in United States, undoubtedly including hundreds of IRGC and Quds force operatives. What Iraq did or didn’t do in retaliation of the US invasion is irrelevant.
Rip Murdock (b7c7da) — 2/4/2024 @ 11:11 amalternative reality
Jan 6, 2021, President Romney gives his farewell address after 8 years of unbridled prosperity.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/4/2024 @ 11:16 amUnless you voted in yesterday’s Democratic primary.
Rip Murdock (b7c7da) — 2/4/2024 @ 11:18 amThat’s as close as Haley will ever get to debating Trump.
Comedy gold!
Rip Murdock (b7c7da) — 2/4/2024 @ 11:19 amKevin, we let weirdo ideas corrupt education. That isn’t code for “disagree with me.” You should hear the bizarre things that are now acceptable.
I recommend “The Canceling of the American Mind” by Greg Lukianoff and Ricki Schott.
Absolutely Haley vs Newsome.
There have been fine choices in the past. I fear for the future.
I sometimes think we are one of the very dark “alternaties” in Michael Kube-McDowell’s “Alternities.”
http://alternities.com/wp/?page_id=174
Simon Jester (69c7b2) — 2/4/2024 @ 11:27 amCNN General Election Poll2/1/24:
……….
Overall, 49% of registered voters say they would back Trump if an election between the two were held today, while 45% support Biden and 5% say they’d vote for someone else. Those numbers are identical to CNN polling on the contest in the fall, and the demographic dynamics of the contest appear to be steady – with a wide education gap among the most notable demographic divides, and smaller differences by age or race than in other recent presidential elections.
………….
A month into the election year, there are few signs of movement in how the public views either candidate. Both Trump and Biden continue to be deeply underwater in favorability ratings (59% of Americans hold an unfavorable view of Biden and 55% have a negative take on Trump), and many say that Biden does not deserve reelection (66%). Americans largely see Trump’s views and policies as “too extreme” (63%), while most see Biden’s views and policies as “generally mainstream” (61%).
…………..
Polling consistently shows that the idea of a third party or independent candidate for president is popular, but in reality, third-party bids rarely generate as much support as pre-election polling would suggest.
The pull of party loyalty comes through in the poll’s broad majorities who say they would be content should their party’s likely nominee win. ……….
………..
……….. Trump’s last remaining major GOP opponent, former South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley, holds a clear lead over Biden among voters nationwide in another hypothetical general election scenario: 52% support her compared with 39% for Biden. ………..
Still, many Americans say they don’t know enough about Haley to have an opinion of her (42%). Those who do currently break more negative than positive, 32% unfavorable to 25% favorable.
………….
…………About 7 in 10 (72%) Republican-aligned voters say the party has a better chance to win the White House with Trump at the top of the ticket than someone else, and 57% say they would be enthusiastic should he become president again. And most Republican-aligned voters view Trump as generally mainstream (62%) rather than too extreme (37%). ……..
Haley faces more pessimism among the potential Republican electorate about her chances to win. ………
Among Republican and Republican-leaning voters, her favorability rating lags far behind Trump’s: 31% have a favorable view of Haley, compared with 71% who have a positive view of Trump.
………….
Poll crosstabs.
Rip Murdock (b7c7da) — 2/4/2024 @ 12:00 pmPost 196 should have been blockquoted.
Rip Murdock (b7c7da) — 2/4/2024 @ 12:01 pmUnless you voted in yesterday’s Democratic primary.
Indeed. A big contest that.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/4/2024 @ 12:13 pmQuinnipiac University General Election Poll 1/31/24:
Poll crosstabs.
Rip Murdock (b7c7da) — 2/4/2024 @ 12:18 pmPolls comparing Trump’s standing versus Haley’s in a match up against Biden are meaningless, because Haley is not the presumptive nominee. If she were, she’d suddenly become the main target of the media/Democrats and she’d wilt like a hothouse flower, as would her poll numbers. See McCain 2008.
lloyd (81296d) — 2/4/2024 @ 12:50 pm“Never tell me the odds”
— Han Solo
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/4/2024 @ 12:51 pmSee McCain 2008.
McCain folded because he was a boob. He knew less than nothing about financial matters, but when the market crashed, he suspended his campaign to rush back to DC to “help” the grown-ups and was publicly rebuffed. If only it had been Romney.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/4/2024 @ 12:53 pmObama knew as little, but he didn’t run to center state to demonstrate that.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/4/2024 @ 12:54 pmCould’ve had Cruz in 2016, but the establishment said no and pushed Kasich and Trump rather than support a conservative. We know how that worked out.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 2/4/2024 @ 1:14 pmIt took more than 24 hours, but Nikki Haley walked back her secession comments on CNN’s State of the Union:
As a reminder, here is what Haley said about secession in 2024; and here is what she said in 2010:
Rip Murdock (68deca) — 2/4/2024 @ 1:22 pmKevin M (ed969f) — 2/4/2024 @ 11:03 am
South Carolina is the only state where the Democratic and Republican presidential primaries are held on separate dates. The Dem primary on Feb.3, and the Rep. primary on Feb. 24. South Carolina is one of the few states (another is Louisiana) that tends to hold elections on Saturdays.
A person cannot vote in both primaries but the choice of party expires with that.
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 2/4/2024 @ 1:24 pmI’m confused-what’s her position again? The one from 2010 and reiterated last week, or her stance today (Sunday)?
Rip Murdock (68deca) — 2/4/2024 @ 1:26 pmI read that in a 3-person race involving Trump, Biden and Nikki Haley, Nikki Haley was polling at 12%. But that’s all affected by people thinking about whom other people will vote for.
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 2/4/2024 @ 1:27 pmI agree, these polls are extremely hypothetical.
Rip Murdock (68deca) — 2/4/2024 @ 1:36 pmIt’s also never going to happen.
Rip Murdock (68deca) — 2/4/2024 @ 1:39 pmCould’ve had Cruz in 2016
We may have him in 2024 if the SC boots Trump. I guarantee you that MAGA will have a few words to say.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/4/2024 @ 2:08 pmI’m confused-what’s her position again? The one from 2010 and reiterated last week, or her stance today (Sunday)?
Two different ideas a mere 14 years apart? Horrors!
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/4/2024 @ 2:11 pmBut count on Rip to hold politicians he doesn’t like to their exact words in long interviews — even ones where they are repeatedly asked a question until the gaffe appears — while ignoring the silly mistakes of those politicians he likes. Oh, wait, it’s just the polls.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/4/2024 @ 2:14 pmStupid people make their mind up and stick with it, because it was so hard the first time.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/4/2024 @ 2:15 pm“Former President Donald Trump shared a strange post on social media asking his followers if they think he resembles Elvis Presley.”
Maybe fat Elvis….hopefully soon dead Elvis on the crapper….but that would violate the karma-crushing penalty of death wishing. I’m sure Trump is just pinging the normal-verse so they will obligingly give him a ping back.
It would be nice to ignore the man or that shear dumb-assery would eventually render him…like the pillow guy…irrelevant. But apparently this is democracy in its purest form. The people want a man of the people….with a billion dollars and a model for a wife…errr, 3rd wife. Crude, mean, mendacious, and spiteful. It’s the new list of what appeals in Republican leaders. Yeah yeah I know….it’s the policies…and how you get there is just the sausage making. But character is destiny. When you need a leader is when you start to see the deficits…and hear injections of disinfectant to beat coronavirus….and shady deals for personal benefit.
But the alternative is worse…apparently. Whether its flip-a-coin Haley or Senile-Joe. The people have spoken and we need to give it to them…good and hard. At this point, I just want there to be massive accountability. If we are heading down the black-diamond-slope on one ski, blindfolded, and inebriated….then I want it clear who pushed us clear of the green-slope for their 30 coins and jollies.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 2/4/2024 @ 2:31 pmRip Murdock (68deca) — 2/4/2024 @ 1:26 pm
Politicians change stances. It’s hopelessly idealistic to expect otherwise. Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
norcal (053dda) — 2/4/2024 @ 2:43 pm183. Rip Murdock @ 10:46 am
It’s right there in her statement:
https://www.ajc.com/politics/breaking-fulton-special-prosecutor-admits-personal-relationship-with-da-in-trump-case/YOPP3SAOJVHUDESW3RR6UWTB2E
Sammy Finkelman (b434ee) — 2/4/2024 @ 3:07 pmRip Murdock (68deca) — 2/4/2024 @ 1:39 pm
According to a comment here, all but 3 states disqualify a person who ran in a primary for presidet from running in the general election on a third party line but I don’t know if that’s true. Or will hold up. Deends on the wording probably.\\Instead of Haey you could substitute other names in a poll (if they were famous)
Sammy Finkelman (b434ee) — 2/4/2024 @ 3:11 pmthat would violate the karma-crushing penalty of death wishing
I usually follow that rule, but here I make an exception.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/4/2024 @ 3:28 pmI would dearly love it if a presidential candidate had all of my views and nothing I didn’t like. But I accept some imperfection. It’s always about the lesser of two weevils.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/4/2024 @ 3:29 pmI don’t know if that’s true. Or will hold up
That comment had a link, and at that link there was a discussion of failed attempts to run anyway.
The only thing you can do is run a write-in campaign, as the courts have ruled they must offer that path. And good luck.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/4/2024 @ 3:31 pmAnd, contradicting myself in only 2 minutes:
https://ballotpedia.org/Sore_loser_laws_for_presidential_candidates,_2016
Very long table of precedents at link
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/4/2024 @ 3:34 pmThe asylum farce isn’t just a US thing
MP Jonathan Gullis, on Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby: “’Woke Welby’ has enabled political activists within the clergy to help illegal economic migrants, predominantly young single men, secure the right to permanently remain in the UK with this so called ‘guidance’.
“What this proves to the British public is that lefty lawyers, Sir Keir Starmer, attention-seeking celebrities, and the Church of England are happy to leave our borders wide open – undermining our national security, and helping the smuggling gangs continue their disgusting trade of human life.”
Sound familiar?
lloyd (2aa6e7) — 2/4/2024 @ 4:12 pmhttps://legalinsurrection.com/2024/02/muslims-in-dearborn-michigan-celebrated-the-events-of-october-7th/
What is to be done?
NJRob (eb56c3) — 2/4/2024 @ 4:24 pmPerhaps the House should re-create the House Committee on Un-American Activities, which was first formed to combat Naziism and Stalinism prior to WW2.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/4/2024 @ 5:16 pmThe committee was correct. That’s never discussed.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 2/4/2024 @ 5:26 pmThe 370 page Senate border deal appears to have been hammered out. Anyone can wade through it, but why bother? According to The Hill:
First, the president can end catch and release himself. He doesn’t need a bill to do that. It was gone under Trump and Biden reinstated it on day one. When the bill goes nowhere in the House, he’ll lie and say catch and release is continuing because the bill didn’t pass, and the media will buy it.
Second, an authority to close the border once a threshold is reached implies they can close the border. Therefore, why is there even an acceptable threshold? Why isn’t it zero? Because the goal here is to get an acceptable threshold of thousands per day codified into law. It’s not to put a bogus cap on it that will never actually happen under this administration.
Third, work authorization is a magnet for migrants. NYC has complained the migrants are overloading shelters because they aren’t authorized to work. This would ease their situation, as they see it, and make the problem worse for everyone else. A win for Democrats.
Fourth, eliminating the court backlog is just a way to keep the turnstiles turning. To ease the backlog, money should be spent on enforcement and interdiction. Democrats don’t want this, of course.
Fifth, asylum screening standards would have to be raised considerably to make any impact. We should know the exact details, but the fact that Schumer and Biden are on board already isn’t a good sign.
HR2 was dead on arrival in the Senate many months ago. The House will return the favor. The difference of course is that the House will get blamed and the Senate won’t. Again, it’s too bad we have a president who will halt Ukraine aid in order to keep his open borders policies.
lloyd (e8e666) — 2/4/2024 @ 6:24 pmMore details on the threshold limit:
5,000 per day is insane.
A week ago, Lankford had mocked Republicans who pointed to that exact provision, and implied it was just rumor: “Right now there’s internet rumors is all that people are running on. It would be absolutely absurd for me to agree to 5,000 people a day. This bill focuses on getting us to zero illegal crossings a day.”
What a lying POS. But, I’m glad there are Senators like Lankford around to remind us how pathetic the GOP establishment always was and is.
lloyd (e8e666) — 2/4/2024 @ 6:48 pmIt’s not a perfect deal, but it moves the issue in a better direction, but pro-Putin hack Speaker Johnson won’t even give it a hearing.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 2/4/2024 @ 7:27 pmIsraeli minister ben-givr say Israel would be better off if trump defeats biden. Trump would allow us to deal with gaza and clean up the west bank. (DU)
asset (1fbf41) — 2/4/2024 @ 7:30 pm@181 Your side doesn’t? Reuters dec. 1 2023 ex-marine pleads guilty to fire bombing abortion clinic. This was just the latest plenty of earlier examples.
asset (1fbf41) — 2/4/2024 @ 7:39 pmHere’s another good summary of the bill that Trump and Speaker Johnson will reject, thus doing Putin’s bidding.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 2/4/2024 @ 7:44 pm@199 national polls are pretty meaningless. Accurate polls in az, ga, mi, nev, pa. and wi. will have meaning.
asset (1fbf41) — 2/4/2024 @ 7:48 pm@204 See lying ted self destruct Indiana primary 2016.
asset (1fbf41) — 2/4/2024 @ 7:50 pm@224 I ask the same question about racist trumpsters. What is to be done. It comes from a book title by v. lenin. Cease-fire supporters are growing all the time and hamas supporters are piggy backing on them.
asset (1fbf41) — 2/4/2024 @ 8:00 pm@225/226 Trumpsters would be the first to be brought up on un-american activites. Back then it was klansmen in congress asking the question it would be crypto-fascists and racists today.
asset (1fbf41) — 2/4/2024 @ 8:05 pm5,000 per day is insane.
It is 1.8 million per year. The lower number (3750) comes out to almost 1.4 million per year. Of new workers to compete with American tradesmen and less-skilled Americans. Note that these folks are in the core of Trump’s support.
I agree with lloyd here, it’s a travesty wrapped in lies and surrounded by bad math.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/4/2024 @ 10:36 pmAre there really millions of people fleeing monstrous tyranny is Central America? If so, wouldn’t it be far cheaper to send the Marines? Mexico isn’t much better — 170,000 murders in the last few years — but at least they have gun control. *sigh*
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/4/2024 @ 10:38 pmHere’s another good summary of the bill that Trump and Speaker Johnson will reject, thus doing Putin’s bidding.
Paul,
Why do you write off as immaterial 2 million new semi-skilled immigrants each year? Believe it or not, there are other issues than Ukraine and why do you expect the people who will be hurt THEMSELVES by those things that don’t affect YOU, to give a rat’s ass about what Putin does 8,000 miles away? Just because you think it’s important.
This “deal” puts front and center the entire MAGA complaint about a system that treats the college-educated elites as the only thing that matters and tosses everyone else into the collateral damage pile? You don’t care about the migrants because your only interaction will be to hire them as day labor. But the carpenters out there see an existential danger.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/4/2024 @ 10:44 pmThe House should reject this. The Senate should, too. The deal needs to be better. Lloyd has the best of this argument.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/4/2024 @ 10:46 pm@238 yes drug gangs are running rampant except perhaps nicuragua where they were able to fight off reagan/bush C.I.A. drug dealing. Hillary clinton interfered with guatamala and honduras when they tried to fight the drug cartels. Columbia the same.
asset (1fbf41) — 2/5/2024 @ 2:20 amLast night I finished Nate Silver’s The Signal and the Noise and can recommend it to anyone who wants to learn to think more logically.
About everything from baseball to earthquakes to poker to terrorism. And more.
Jim Miller (c66f9a) — 2/5/2024 @ 4:24 amWe’re not going to get any kind of decent border security and immigration law, or enforcement, from the crapweasels we keep sending to DC. Every single one of them is looking out for his own special interest and making deals with the others’ special interests to get them passed.
nk (4443a9) — 2/5/2024 @ 4:32 amThis is a question, since I pay little attention to such things: Are many of the Grammy awards essentially political? When they are announced each year, that’s the impression I get, but I don’t follow that scene, so I don’t know for sure.
Jim Miller (c66f9a) — 2/5/2024 @ 5:14 am@239
NOT only that… this is literally how you get more Trump.
No, that’s not a hyperbole… it’s a fact.
In the 2016 campaign and in Trump 1st’s term, this was THE signature issues that he actually did make things “better” and that his supporters roundly recognize as moving in the “right direction”.
To Democrats and #NeverTrumpers, good job in trying to re-elect Trump.
Be sure to dot all the i’s and t’s when documenting your campaign contribution for Trump.
* shakes head in amazement *
whembly (5f7596) — 2/5/2024 @ 6:47 am@244
Not a “right v left” political… but industry political, yes.
Not just Grammys either.
whembly (5f7596) — 2/5/2024 @ 6:49 amHaley’s position on secession was well known-the interviewer referenced her 2010 pronouncement; she wasn’t “badgered”. And even then she could have said secession was unconstitutional. She only came to that position afterwards, after being questioned about it on CNN, a few days after she confirmed her past views.
A campaign conversion.
Rip Murdock (68deca) — 2/5/2024 @ 7:12 amAnd if Haley was “badgered”, it shows how easily she can be pushed around.
Rip Murdock (68deca) — 2/5/2024 @ 7:15 amKevin M (ed969f) — 2/4/2024 @ 3:31 pm
I think the validity of these laws may depend upon signing deadlines
Lisa Murkowski won a write in election in Alaska for United States Senator in 2010 – also the mayor of Buffalo won re-election there not long ago after losing a Democratic primary. (Joe Lieberman of Connecticut won on a third party ticket in 2006 after losing the Democratic primary, but that was the end for him – that could not be replicated in 2012. In 2006 the Republicans basically abandoned their own candidate.
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 2/5/2024 @ 7:48 amIf Taylor Swift wanted to help a candidate for president, either Joe Biden or third party, the best way she could do it would be to write and release a song about it, and try to get it to go viral.
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 2/5/2024 @ 7:51 amRip, do you actually think you are going to persuade the statistically insignificant number of NeverTrump here to not support Haley because of her views on secession? And since you’ve already declared her a dead-candidate walking, why do you care so much about her views on secession….which probably does not crack the top 20 issues that voters actually care about?
She remains leaps and bounds better than the guy who thinks he could have negotiated the Civil War away and who trusted Putin over his own intelligence services. Haley will support Ukraine, NATO, and Taiwan….and will pick advisors that we can trust. She’s a long shot but deserves the support of any constitutional conservative.
The country deserves a non-geriatric candidate that has the energy and character to lead.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 2/5/2024 @ 8:01 amThere he goes again:
In 2016, the Loser made absurd claims about unemployment:
In 2017, he began boasting about unemployment coming down — using the same sources he had derided, during the 2016 campaign.
And now that he is running again? You guessed it, if you have been paying any attention to American politics in recent years. The Loser is back to claiming that unemployment is far higher than the official measures.
(It seems likely to me that the Loser’s endless falsehoods have — to some extent — protected other politicians from the full consequences of their falsehoods. That certainly seems to be true of Joe Biden, for example.)
Jim Miller (3f900f) — 2/5/2024 @ 8:46 amNo. Actually, I would say the number of NeverTrumpers here exceed the number of Trump supporters.
It shows her ignorance of the Constitution, and as someone who represents a “new generation” her views on secession and the Civil War are definitely old school Southern positions. She flipped flopped on her long held positions on secession and the Civil War, making it look like she concedes the obvious when challenged. Combined on her other flip flops (like her proposal for for banning Internet anonymity) shows how she can be easily rolled.
It isn’t me who has declared Haley a “dead-candidate walking,” its Republican voters. Haley is already conceding she won’t win in South Carolina, and unfortunately for her South Carolina is a winner-take-all primary.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/5/2024 @ 9:39 amAnd despite all her criticisms (finally!) of Donald Trump, Haley still hasn’t disavowed her promise to pardon him.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/5/2024 @ 9:43 amYou won’t get any argument from me about the multitude of reasons why Donald Trump shouldn’t be president, but I think it’s pretty safe to say Nikki Haley won’t be the Republican presidential nominee.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/5/2024 @ 9:56 amRip has a way of writing that makes Haley sound as bad as Trump. It sounds like the left-wingers who shriek about SNL letting her on their cold open on Saturday.
On Haley’s secession follys, though, don’t blame Rip for that. Dana brought it up first.
Appalled (43902e) — 2/5/2024 @ 10:01 amHardly. Trump has no peer in behaving badly; Haley hasn’t done anything comparable. And it has nothing to do necessarily with her positions on the issues, it’s just I object to her inconsistency and hypocrisy.
Haley brought secession first. Dana merely highlighted it.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/5/2024 @ 10:40 amWhen she was a Boeing board member (2019-2020), what did she know about the 737 MAX problems, and when did she know it? The Lion Air crash occurred in 2018, and the Ethiopian Airlines crash occurred in 2019, so there must have been some board discussions about the plane’s safety and manufacturing flaws during her tenure.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/5/2024 @ 10:50 am@255, I get it, you believe she won’t be the nominee, but you…just…can’t…stop complaining about her. And about all things…secession!….which is whack-a-doodle. No one seriously believes Texas is going anywhere…and what that would even look like.
If it’s not Haley…and it’s not Trump….and there’s no commentary about all the wrong positions Biden has taken throughout his political career, is it safe to pencil you in for that Biden/Harris yard sign? Or is it more principled non-voting?
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 2/5/2024 @ 11:02 amAgain, Haley is the one who brought up secession, not me. Why is that so hard to understand?
Principled non-voting. I don’t care about Biden’s current or past positions, and I would never vote for him (or any Democrat) under any circumstances.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/5/2024 @ 11:18 amhttps://dailycaller.com/2024/02/01/democrats-vote-against-dui-illegal-immigrant-deport-bill/
Do you know what country also deports or bans convicted DUIs.
That wasteland that is Canada.
whembly (5f7596) — 2/5/2024 @ 11:31 amKevin M (ed969f) — 2/3/2024 @ 2:18 pm
If Trump were disqualified by a state, (and he could be using other criteria than a determination, as fact, that he took part in an insurrection, the GOP would probably run his Vice President and some other name as the ticket, but tell everyone their Electors would vote for Trump for president. Disqualifying his vice president is a bit more advanced than states would be ready to go.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 2/5/2024 @ 12:15 pmImportant: This WaPo editorial, “On campus and off, dictators are exporting repression to the U.S.”
Example:
Jim Miller (39e131) — 2/5/2024 @ 12:34 pmOne reason I think the Republicans want to kill the immigration bill, is because, however draconian it may be, it will NOT stop illegal immigration, not even the type that involves crossing the border, but they don’t want to let that on to their voters.
However, House Speaker Mike Johnson seems to have claimed on Meet the Press yesterday that, if they got 100% of what they wanted, it will only reduce it to 30% of some unspecified level:
https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meet-press-february-4-2024-n1308551
Elsewhere he says simply “stem the flow”
But he also said earlier in passing that to “stem the flow” is reduce the flow to 30% of some baseline.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 2/5/2024 @ 12:43 pmSo stem = cut to 30% of some standard level.
Video of NBC Meet the Press presidential poll.
https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/video/biden-trails-trump-by-20-points-on-the-economy-as-his-approval-ratings-plummet-nbc-news-poll-203574341540
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 2/5/2024 @ 12:45 pm263.
Did they try to recruit people to cross the border and claim asylum or did they try to recruit people who were already in the United States or has valid visas?
If they had any sense, it would be the latter.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 2/5/2024 @ 12:49 pmDon Jr. 🤣🙃🤪
Rip Murdock (68deca) — 2/5/2024 @ 12:50 pmMike Johnson did say “support for Iran.”
Did he mean Ukraine (I think the House did pass a stand-alone bill) or did he mean money for action that enable the United States to act against Iran.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 2/5/2024 @ 12:52 pmDon Jr would tend to avoid confusing people who saw the ballot.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 2/5/2024 @ 12:53 pmLiving is a state where Trump Republicans dominate the primary, and Democrats dominate the general election, it’s my only option.
Rip Murdock (68deca) — 2/5/2024 @ 12:54 pmRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/5/2024 @ 10:40 am
Actually it was someone at a town hall type Q&A who brought it up.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 2/5/2024 @ 12:55 pmIf Trump were disqualified by a state
Why do you respond with a different scenario? As I’ve repeatedly said, the Court will not leave this in chaos. They will vote for absolute inclusion or absolute exclusion. Only Trump would like the drama of a state by state “trial.”
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/5/2024 @ 1:01 pmreagan/bush C.I.A. drug dealing
If this were my blog, I would treat this the same as QAnon nonsense.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/5/2024 @ 1:02 pmShe remains leaps and bounds better than the guy who thinks he could have negotiated the Civil War away
They tried to: the unratified 13th Amendment:
It was passed by Congress in late 1860 by a bare 2/3rds in each House and set to the states by Abraham Lincoln as one of his first official acts. Secession, however, made adoption impossible.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/5/2024 @ 1:06 pmHaley’s position on secession was well known-the interviewer referenced her 2010 pronouncement; she wasn’t “badgered”
Tell me, if you ask a witness the same question 3 times in court, what term do your think they will use? Probably after the second time.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/5/2024 @ 1:07 pmHaley is already conceding she won’t win in South Carolina
Another Rip lie about Haley. From the link he posted :
There is no concession there. And the loss in NH was not “huge”, she got 43%.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/5/2024 @ 1:11 pmAre many of the Grammy awards essentially political?
No more than the Oscars or the Emmys. Of the Nobels, for that matter. Just ask Al Gore.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/5/2024 @ 1:12 pmAnd despite all her criticisms (finally!) of Donald Trump, Haley still hasn’t disavowed her promise to pardon him.
Rip, you already think she’s an opportunist crapweasel, why do you think she won’t find a reason to change her mind after MAGA has voted for her because Trump asked them to?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/5/2024 @ 1:14 pmWhen she was a Boeing board member (2019-2020), what did she know about the 737 MAX problems, and when did she know it
The entire board did not know, other than management was moving some operations overseas, but they said it was all going ducky. Do you think she had the code printed out and debugged it? She quit the board later for other reasons (opposition to a federal bailout).
Yet another example of Rip’s poo-flinging at Haley.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/5/2024 @ 1:17 pmhowever draconian it may be
It’s draconian to the Democrat left, but to anyone else it’s fig leaves.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/5/2024 @ 1:20 pmLiving is a state where Trump Republicans dominate the primary, and Democrats dominate the general election, it’s my only option.
No, your only option is to man up and go down to the polls and object. The lack of participation by non-Democrats is one of the reasons why all those idiotic initiatives pass 53-47 and why down-ballot Republicans keep losing by narrow margins in competitive districts.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/5/2024 @ 1:23 pmIt’s just rationalization, Rip, and when you break that into parts, it’s “Rational lies”
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/5/2024 @ 1:24 pm272. Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/5/2024 @ 1:01 pm
Because it is the only scenario which is possible.
No they won’t. They will not exclude – it’s premature – but they likely will not include either. They could say that a state cannot rely on the 14th amendment to exclude, but it could exclude for other reasons (which the states of Colorado and Maine probably have not.)
They could either exclude on the grounds that some state official or court, authorized by state law to do so, decides that a federal court would later disqualify Trump (but not that he is in fact disqualified) or on some other basis, like running for re-election after having lost.
Neither of these two cases is current law but they could ask a state court to determine what the state’s law is.
I don’t think the Supreme Court will authorize that. I was talking about removing Trump from the ballot on some other basis.
The Supreme Court may allow states to remove a presidential candidate from the ballot but make them pay a political price if they do.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 2/5/2024 @ 1:37 pmKevin M (ed969f) — 2/5/2024 @ 1:20 pm
Draconian in denying asylum on any grounds if too many people claim it, or in limiting the grounds, and in “closing the border” (what does that mean?) but it won’t accomplish what they tell their voters is the objective – and it is not possible.
House Speaker Mike Johnson alternates between saying that that a law is necessary to stem the flow, and that no law is necessary and furthermore that stemming the flow (merely) means reducing it to 30% of (the current or some previous) level.
Trump and the Republicans know that their bill won’t accomplish its stated objectives; that’s why they are trying to sabotage the bill and say it is all up to the president anyway.
Senator Mitch McConnell is reported to have said this bill gets them more of what they want than they would get if there was a Republican Senate and Republican House and Republican president) presumably because it’s only Biden’s appeasement of the Republicans because of his fear of losing the election that would get them 60 votes for this)
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 2/5/2024 @ 1:47 pmLet’s remember what article 3 does:
We talk about this terms of ballot access at the state level, but given our current system, I could see the Vice-President enforcing the insurrection clause to prevnt Trump electors from being voted next January. (Call it January 6 all over again). Unless the court holds, as a matter of consitutional law, what an insurrection is and give guidance on whether Trump did it, this could turn into a very large mess.
I am curious how the Court gets out of this one.
Appalled (43902e) — 2/5/2024 @ 1:57 pmThe town hall questioner brought up the causes of the Civil War (another answer she whiffed on), not secession. Haley defended secession and the Confederacy in 2010, so her answers to these questions shouldn’t have surprised anyone.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/5/2024 @ 2:17 pmNikki lost NH by 11 points, so it wasn’t exactly close in the state most favorable to her politics (the college educated wine & cheese crowd). Insisting you don’t have to win your home state, and knowing that South Carolina is a winner take all primary, means she is conceding she will not win any delegates. Being the second person in a two person race means you’ve lost. Moral victories don’t count.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/5/2024 @ 2:28 pmMy principled non-voting only extends to the presidential primary/general election. I vote on everything outside of those contests.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/5/2024 @ 2:30 pmNo, but the board (of which she was a part of) should have been asking questions. Did she? We don’t know.
Her opposition to the federal COVID bailout is rich given the millions of subsidies and other benefits she flung at Boeing while governor.
When Boeing served her purposes, she quit.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/5/2024 @ 2:48 pmRip,
Haley’s ability to talk up the Confederacy in 2010 gave her the credibility in her State to take down the stars and bars after the church shooting. Some of that stuff was part of politics in South Carolina in that period.
What worked in South Carolina then is probably animating her soft-ish on Trump and other fascists approach in 2024. It may be why some of the magnolia scented takes on “The Late Unpleasentness” make their unwanted appearnce. It’s not working, and that’s unfortunate.
Appalled (43902e) — 2/5/2024 @ 2:51 pmI could see the Vice-President enforcing the insurrection clause to prevnt Trump electors from being voted next January
Perhaps, but in the revised Electoral Count Act, while the House had a provision for that in its version, the final version that was passed and signed removed 14th Amendment considerations from the short list of valid objections.
Not that it would stop Kamala Harris, but she would have no legal basis for doing so and a legislative history not in her favor.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/5/2024 @ 2:58 pm*and* it would be an abuse of her authority every bit as much as it would have been an abuse of Pence’s authority to interfere in 2020.
aphrael (71d87c) — 2/5/2024 @ 2:58 pmRIP Bob Beckwith (91):
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/5/2024 @ 3:00 pmApparently she is still “talking up the Confederacy” even today.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/5/2024 @ 3:02 pmThere are a few options for the Court:
1. It doesn’t apply to the President or Vice-President as they are not “officers.” Trump is QUALIFIED.
This is patent BS and I can’t see anyone trying it. But maybe in a mishegas divided opinion, Thomas might try this to keep the peace at home.
2. It only applied to the Civil War period. Trump is QUALIFIED
(Bzzzzzt. Wrong.)
3. Congress has never established a procedure (other than the crime of Insurrection), so there is not path to execute 14.3. Trump is QUALIFIED
There is a bit of support for this, even some outside the Trump camp, but it seems that this idea was discarded by 1870.
4. It was not an insurrection. Trump is QUALIFIED
Highly unexpected.
5. It may have been an insurrection, but Trump had no part in it. Trump is QUALIFIED
Also unexpected.
6. It may have been an insurrection and Trump may have participated a little bit in it, but there has been no due process/insufficient due process/no criminal conviction. Trump’s best argument, and a contender for an actual decision. Trump may be QUALIFIED or DISQUALIFIED
At this point the Court has to say what due process would consist of. 6a) State by state hearings under state law; 6b) some federal tribunal & soon; 6c) conviction of _________. I think that 6a is most likely of these choices, and also most dangerous and cowardly.
7. It was an insurrection, Trump participated in it, there was substantial due process in which Trump participated. Trump is DISQUALIFIED.
Coupled with all of this is the reason for 14.3 — that an insurrectionist is barred because he would try again. And Trump, by every word or action, clearly would try again and by threat he is actually trying now.
The Court needs to put this behind us. Not matter what they choose they will take a hit — the Dems will hate them (more), MAGA will hate them (too), or they will be seen as cowards by both sides.
I see #7 as quite likely.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/5/2024 @ 3:17 pmPolitically, disqualifying Trump may give the Court cover for other rightward moves. Calling them “Trump’s judges” would be much harder. I would hope that they would be unanimous in that.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/5/2024 @ 3:24 pmI’ll take that bet, I see that result as highly unlikely; only if the SC wants to see blood in the streets. My bet is that a majority will rule that the states have no role under Section 3 to make such a determination, only Congress after the election, possibly during the Electoral College.
1. It doesn’t apply to the President or Vice-President as they are not “officers.” Trump is QUALIFIED.
2. It only applied to the Civil War period. Trump is QUALIFIED
3. Congress has never established a procedure (other than the crime of Insurrection), so there is not path to execute 14.3. Trump is QUALIFIED
4. It was not an insurrection. Trump is QUALIFIED
5. It may have been an insurrection, but Trump had no part in it. Trump is QUALIFIED
6. It may have been an insurrection and Trump may have participated a little bit in it, but there has been no due process/insufficient due process/no criminal conviction. Trump’s best argument, and a contender for an actual decision. Trump may be QUALIFIED or DISQUALIFIED
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/5/2024 @ 3:41 pmI’ll take that bet, I see that result as highly unlikely; only if the SC wants to see blood in the streets
This is actually my point: Trump threatens a new insurrection if he does not get his way. This is WHY we have this section of the 14th and it is sheer cowardice to back down now. Do you think this will be the end of his demands?
See “The Sudetenland”
I see that you side with the pedants on #1. Legal myopia and properly ridiculed by most.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/5/2024 @ 3:47 pmSo the expectation is that the Board of Directors of Boeing should have have started their own independent external investigation into quality at Boeing?
steveg (5856ca) — 2/5/2024 @ 4:04 pmWhat If?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/5/2024 @ 4:17 pm> If the Supreme Court does this, it would rip the country apart. Biden would have no choice but to stand down, because the assumption by most Americans (and all Republicans) would be that he and his party personally orchestrated the ditching of his chief rival, who is beating him in the polls. Failure to stand down would cement for most Republicans that we live in a banana republic where the ruling elites are above the rules and the law.
On the other hand, failure to disqualify Trump will cement for a lot of anti-trumpists that Trump has sufficiently stacked the courts to ensure that it’s impossible to use the judicial system to prevent the end of the Republic.
There are *zero* good outcomes, here.
aphrael (71d87c) — 2/5/2024 @ 4:20 pmGiven the consequences of the two 737 MAX crashes within a few months of each other, resulting in nearly 350 killed, that might have been a good idea, but they chose to lie to the federal government instead.
Corporations hire outside investigators all the time reviewing corporate misconduct. But as I said, Boeing chose to lie.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/5/2024 @ 4:27 pmPower is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have.
MAGA is 50% astroturf, 50% hot air, and 100% grift. Its power reaches only to other members of the cult. There will be no blood in the streets. There will weeping, wailing, and gnashing of dental work, and tears mixed with snot running down Donnie’s chin.
nk (a540a6) — 2/5/2024 @ 4:41 pmBiden would have no choice but to stand down,
That would be wonderful, but I fear too much to hope for.
nk (a540a6) — 2/5/2024 @ 4:44 pmAgain, the most telling reason to kick Trump off the ballot is that it IS likely to precipitate an insurrection. An insurrection that Trump has been threatening. And insurrection that he will continue to threaten. If he is kicked off the ballot, if he loses the election, if he wins but is thwarted by the courts. Probably if he is not allowed to run for a third term.
The 14th Amendment was designed so that if you participate in an insurrection you are not going to be allowed near power to lead one again. The entire “there will be violence” argument is sufficient to disqualify him now.
This will not improve in time. No appeasement does.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/5/2024 @ 4:49 pmI don’t Trump will need to threaten anything, his supporter already have the green light.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/5/2024 @ 4:49 pmI really don’t see a 6-3 Republican majority SC disqualifying Trump. I stand by my prediction that the Court will weasel itself out of making that decision by stating the states have no authority under Section to disqualify Trump.
Any predictions on how long it will take the Court to issue its opinions? If they’re like the appeals court hearing Trump’s immunity claim, it will be around Nov. 4th.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/5/2024 @ 4:54 pmAnd I daresay 100% armed.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/5/2024 @ 4:55 pm@300: Excellent article, Rip. I suggest that people read the whole thing at the source. It makes many of my points, and mostly agrees that the Court MUST disqualify Trump.
A new argument: If they leave him on the ballot, it legitimatizes what he did and others will repeat it in the future.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/5/2024 @ 5:02 pmAnd I daresay 100% armed.
And your point? Should we bow down and accept that Trump has armed men willing to subvert our government?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/5/2024 @ 5:03 pmI don’t Trump will need to threaten anything, his supporter already have the green light.
I said “he threatens”, that includes “has already threatened”
Why are we giving this man the benefit of the doubt? We know what he is.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/5/2024 @ 5:04 pmAny predictions on how long it will take the Court to issue its opinions?
Bush v Gore took less than a week.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/5/2024 @ 5:05 pmBy ignoring the comment by nk, you’ve stripped mine of all meaning.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/5/2024 @ 5:06 pmSo what? That’s what posters here said two months ago, about the appeals court ruling on Trump’s immunity argument and we’re still waiting. The SC could have sped things up by accepting the special counsel’s interlocutory appeal, but they declined. What makes you think the Supreme Court will feel obligated not to run out the clock on this case and issue a decision in June?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/5/2024 @ 5:12 pmI didn’t; I merely pointed out that the phrase “officers of the United States” had already been defined. If you read my response from the top, my prediction was there.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/5/2024 @ 5:16 pm@301 A Republic which fears the will of the people may as well fold up shop.
The 14th Amendment exists because there was a significant segment of the voting population who took up arms against the Union and could be depended on to vote their candidates into office. There was good reason to fear this segment of the electorate, thus the constraints on who they could vote for. To apply this to tens of millions of law abiding voters in 2024 is nonsense. If you fear their vote and seek to deny it, don’t assault the English language by claiming it’s to preserve the Republic.
No, there won’t be any blood in the streets. There will be cynicism, apathy and distrust of institutions dialed up to eleven, and resignation that the fix is in. That’s probably worse.
lloyd (cd3202) — 2/5/2024 @ 5:27 pmI see that the garbage open borders bill destroys any semblance of a border and gives immediate working papers to all illegal invaders. It also says that only contiguous invaders are considered in the 8500 per day. They desire to destroy our nation. Why?
NJRob (eb56c3) — 2/5/2024 @ 5:27 pmKevin,
your desires, if approved by the Supreme Court, will ensure a socialist, one party state from which there is no electoral escape. It will tell all voters who support Trump that their votes don’t count. They will cease to vote. Period.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 2/5/2024 @ 5:28 pmTrue that.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/5/2024 @ 5:55 pmBy ignoring the comment by nk, you’ve stripped mine of all meaning.
You might think that; I couldn’t possibly comment.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/5/2024 @ 6:30 pmIt will tell all voters who support Trump that their votes don’t count. They will cease to vote. Period.
Promise?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/5/2024 @ 6:31 pmIf you desire leftism that bad, move to Cuba.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 2/5/2024 @ 6:33 pmTrump is a leftist in my book. A racist leftist, but a leftist just the same. All “Big Government” is leftist.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/5/2024 @ 6:36 pmThat’s the right-wing narrative, right there in a nutshell. The bottom line is the cult leader didn’t want it, and his supplicants fell in line, and killing the deal helps the Russian mass-murdering war criminal. The GOP is on the side of evil when it comes to Putin’s War Against Ukraine.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 2/5/2024 @ 7:10 pmThe irony is that Trump endorsed Lankford (despite lying that he didn’t on Bongino), praising him for being strong on the border.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 2/5/2024 @ 7:21 pmThe Border Patrol union’s statement in support here.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 2/5/2024 @ 7:26 pmNot satisfied with halting Ukraine aid, now Biden is intent on stopping aid to Israel in order to keep his open borders policies.
lloyd (0fd644) — 2/5/2024 @ 7:28 pmThanks for the left wing, open borders narrative.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 2/5/2024 @ 7:45 pmThe GOP is on the side of evil when it comes to Putin’s War Against Ukraine.
And that’s all you can see. Sad.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/5/2024 @ 8:06 pmNo, that’s not all, Kevin. Asshole.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 2/5/2024 @ 8:08 pmPaul, you might be able to find common ground someone like Rob if you were willing to consider that the border problem was existential to him. But all you can see is that *something* is stopping aid to Ukraine and you cast that something in the most pejorative terms rather than look at what their reasons might be.
You are NJRob’s flip side.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/5/2024 @ 8:09 pmThings that Rob Don’t Like = Left Wing.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 2/5/2024 @ 8:13 pmSimplistic and hyperpartisan and brainless.
Why should I, Kevin. I reject the premise.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 2/5/2024 @ 8:16 pmWe have a border bill that improves the border situation, and it was rejected before the details even came out, and it’s all because of one person, the cult leader of the GOP.
Here’s a summary of the border bill from Politico. Of note, once shut down, the border doesn’t reopen until “encounters of illegal crossings drop to 75 percent of the number that initially triggered the closure.”
Asylum claims are stricter and processed faster. And so forth. If there’s one other improvement that could be made, it’s to have Mayorkas replaced with someone competent and is focused on law enforcement.
But it doesn’t matter. Trump doesn’t want it because he feels it’ll hurt his election chances, and the party fell in line. Trump first, Putin second, USA third.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 2/5/2024 @ 8:28 pmI guess I don’t have to detail how the border bill improves the situation. JVW and Rothman already did that for me. Are JVW and NRO’s Rothman socialists, too?
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 2/5/2024 @ 8:38 pmThose open borders left-wingers at the Wall Street Journal are saying that it’s a border bill worth passing.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 2/6/2024 @ 4:02 amBreaking:
Rip Murdock (68deca) — 2/6/2024 @ 7:24 amPaul Montagu (d52d7d) — 2/5/2024 @ 8:28 pm
That’s an attempt to arrive at a number that the cartels can live with.
If they wait too long they may have to make the trigger 10,000 or 15,000
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 2/6/2024 @ 8:23 amZelensky is going to make a shake-up in Ukraine but it probably won’t affect the chances of Ukraine aid passing.
The bill iss dead,
Ukraine will get some aid from seized Russian assets. A bill authorizing that will pass.
When it is clear the bill is dead, the Senate will pass stand-alone aid to Israel. Biden’s veto threat is only to stop the Senate from passing it, but he will reverse himself.
Aid to Taiwan and humanitarian aid to Gaza (with maybe a provision that none of it can go to UNWRA because UNWRA laundered money to Hamas) will pass as part of some broader bill.
Mayorkas will not get removed in his Senate trial,
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 2/6/2024 @ 8:32 amThe bill will pass after a few cosmetic changes. It may take a discharge petition, but the Speaker does not have complete control of the House. Some of the things that have been posted recently make me less concerned about what the bill allows, and I think that some of the House members also will feel similarly.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/6/2024 @ 8:41 amAppeals court rejects Trump’s immunity claim in federal election interference case
As expected. Vexatious litigant.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/6/2024 @ 8:42 amImmunity appeal decision (PDF)
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/6/2024 @ 8:44 am@342
Gooood. Good.
Doubtful SCOTUS would entertain taking this up.
Now lets see the partisan right goes after Biden when his term ends.
“Show me the man and I’ll show you the crime.”
-Lavrentiy Beria
Because this is how it ends.
whembly (5f7596) — 2/6/2024 @ 8:49 amNow lets see the partisan right goes after Biden when his term ends.
Let’s see them find standing. There is a huge difference between something being brought by the DoJ and something being brought by Breitbart.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/6/2024 @ 8:51 amBill Clinton was held to answer for perjury he committed during his time in office. He settled as an immunity claim would have bee equally preposterous, even though he had been acquitted of perjury in a Senate trial.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/6/2024 @ 8:53 am@346
Sorry. Them’s the rules now.
I skimmed the order and I’m not seeing the majority making any delination between what is and is not a presidential official act. (if they did, please point me to page #). Because, if there’s no distinction, the woah momma…people with ax to grind is gunna be busy when a POTUS becomes a former-POTUS.
The Obama administration assassinated a US citizen w/o due process, that the ACLU tried to sue. Surely this opens the door again under this precedent.
Or, for more recent, Joe Biden abdication of his border policies could open him up to legal jeopardy contributing to opioid overdose in this country.
I can see lawyers channeling their inner-Beria after this.
I hope SCOTUS takes this up, but I doubt it.
whembly (5f7596) — 2/6/2024 @ 9:02 am@347
I’m a little foggy on the details… but, I don’t believe the courts even considered the merits of presidential immunity. Hence why he settled. Right?
whembly (5f7596) — 2/6/2024 @ 9:03 amThe Court is required to assume, in an interlocutory appeal, that the indictment is true since the appeal is that these charges cannot be brought. What are the charges again?
(These appeals are not part of the indictment)
I would appreciate it if those who call this indictment indefensible when applied to a former President would tell me why these acts are part of a President’s duty or privileges or in some other way related to the performance of his office. Because, like Nixon’s cover-up or Clinton’s perjury they clearly were not.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/6/2024 @ 9:05 amI don’t believe the courts even considered the merits of presidential immunity. Hence why he settled. Right?
Because Clinton knew “that dog would not hunt.” Say what you want about Bill Clinton, he was a very smart man and well versed in the law. Trump is neither of those things.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/6/2024 @ 9:07 amwhembly,
A prediction: those attempts at “getting back” will not get past the first hearing, and may result in sanctions.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/6/2024 @ 9:09 am@350
Is that really normal?
Because I did do a double-take when in the background the court stated “At this stage of the prosecution, we assume that the allegations set forth in the Indictment are true”. The case hasn’t even started! Struck me as “guilty until proven innocent” mindset.
I didn’t see how United States v. Ballestas fit in here… that case was already adjudicated in district court when it was appealed.
whembly (5f7596) — 2/6/2024 @ 9:14 am@352
Sorry. Thems the rules.
Kevin, we cannot have multi tiered justice… even if the guy being targeted now is someone we despise.
whembly (5f7596) — 2/6/2024 @ 9:16 amWhembly, yes, it’s normal. The court cannot decide if the allegations are true, that requires a trial. Trump is alleging that, even if the allegations are true, he would be immune – so the question the court is answering is, if the allegations are true, would trump be immune?
This is normal appellate work for an appeal of a ruling made at this stage of trial.
aphrael (dec136) — 2/6/2024 @ 9:24 am@355
Thanks buddy, that makes sense.
whembly (5f7596) — 2/6/2024 @ 9:27 amWhat aphrael said.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/6/2024 @ 9:33 amNote that interlocutory appeals (those before any trial) in criminal cases are extremely rare and must be based on solid immunity grounds to even be heard.
All three of these must be satisfied, and an amicus actually brought this up, so the court had to spend some time explaining why they even considered the appeal.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/6/2024 @ 9:37 amOne must keep in mind that, despite all the posturing, that Trump’s primary goal here is to delay. If he wins, great, but if he pushes the prosecution past the election his lawyers have done their job.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/6/2024 @ 9:39 amWishcasting.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/6/2024 @ 9:40 amBiden then should be impeached. Unless one can prove (through direct evidence) that Biden deliberately encouraged or organized drug smuggling (or human trafficking), this is political hyperbole. Shocking!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/6/2024 @ 9:47 amThe Obama administration assassinated a US citizen w/o due process, that the ACLU tried to sue. Surely this opens the door again under this precedent.
Or, for more recent, Joe Biden abdication of his border policies could open him up to legal jeopardy contributing to opioid overdose in this country.
The first was certainly within the president’s war powers, and in any event was an act of State. Had it been done for reasons other than the prosecution of a war, or within the United States and not clearly related to his duty to defend, then you’d have a point, like if Biden ordered MTG killed.
The second is still related to Biden’s duties, and it is long-standing that the results of policy are not actionable if the policy was lawful. I guess if the charges included “fraudulently supporting [and/or profiting from] the importation of fentanyl” then there would be no immunity from a trial.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/6/2024 @ 9:51 amBut in what universe is “attempting to organize fraudulent election returns and/or coerce same” within the duties of the office? If it is, what boundaries are there?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/6/2024 @ 9:53 amThat US citizen (Anwar Al-Aulaqi) was an Al-Qaeda terrorist leader. The fact that his son was killed at the same time is tragic, but not criminal. Anwar should have been a better father and not placed his son in danger.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/6/2024 @ 9:59 amRIP country singer Toby Keith (62).
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/6/2024 @ 10:03 amNote that Aaron Burr, as sitting Vice-President, shot Alexander Hamilton in a duel in New Jersey. Hamilton died several days later in New York. Burr was charged with crimes in both states and fled them to avoid prosecution. The charges were later dropped for other reasons (e.g. the NJ charges were dropped because Hamilton died in NY). But clearly Burr was not believed to have immunity at a time when most of the Founders (including Burr) were still alive to object.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/6/2024 @ 10:04 amNote to Kevin M: McClintock’s memo starts with your favorite movie quote.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/6/2024 @ 10:12 amHere is McClintock’s full memo.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/6/2024 @ 10:16 amVice-President Spiro T Agnew was charged with bribery while in office and resigned as part of a plea deal. He also did not assert (and would not have been granted) immunity.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/6/2024 @ 10:21 amMcClintock’s memo starts with your favorite movie quote.
Well, perhaps. My favorite quote is “Hey, a lesson here, Bey, you come at the King, you’d best not miss!”, but that’s a TV show, so maybe you’re right.
P.S. Tom McClintock is a stand-up guy and a deficit hawk.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/6/2024 @ 10:25 am“As long as the acts are within the constitutional power of the executive, those acts are not impeachable, no matter how foolish, corrupt, damaging, or egregious”
I’m not sure this is true. Impeachment is not a criminal matter, but a political one. It may involve criminality, but any abuse of the public trust is impeachable.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/6/2024 @ 10:28 amwhembly expresses the concern upthread that there is no real limiting principle in the DC Court decision. Since Trump made a very broad claim regarding presidential immunity, the court’s rejection of the theory does not overrule precedent or open any floodgates. The decision could be applied against the next president who is indicted for trying to interfere with an official proceeding involving the electoral college. Otherwise, cases against the President thrown out before would still be thrown out.
Appalled (0ae745) — 2/6/2024 @ 10:44 amI’m really not convinced that the VP is an apt comparison, though, as the VP has no real duties and no real power, and at the end of the day the concern about the chilling effect of malicious post-term or during-term prosecution interfering with necessary presidential action simply *doesn’t apply*.
aphrael (4c4719) — 2/6/2024 @ 10:56 am#368 — McLintock’s argument is impressive. Thanks for linking it.
I do take the Gerald Ford view of impeachment, rather than the viewpoint attributed to Madison. The Mayorkas impeachment would have been a useful tool, had Biden been intractable on impeachment, as it would have forced a debate on policy. However, the guy who is intractable is Trump, who must have the country falling apart in order to make the case that he alone can fix it. So, it’s another pointeless exercise by the most pointless GOP in history.
Appalled (0ae745) — 2/6/2024 @ 10:57 am@372
I’m saying that there wouldn’t be an limiting principles for former Presidents.
I re-read the DC ruling. There’s zero arguments to ascertain what is or is not official acts of the President.
So, if former POTUS doesn’t enjoy any of the same immunities that are afforded to Judges, prosecutors and Congress critters, then yes, I don’t see any limiting principles that would prevent partisan prosecutors going after former Presidents.
Which would open that obnoxious, and insipid doors for partisan prosecutors.
I think Courts should be able to establish what are and are not “official acts of the Presidency”, and that those official acts enjoys immunity unless Congress impeaches/convicts the President. But, that’s pie in the sky as I’m sure that runs afoul to separation of powers doctrines.
whembly (5f7596) — 2/6/2024 @ 11:40 amwhembly,
Courts only consider the case before them, and resolve the case on the narrowest grounds possible. This decision would have been the wrong place to resolve what you want resolved.
There is case law around official/unoffical acts for civil purposes, which are discussed in some depth in the decision just reached. Litigation usually does not give you a bright line rule applicable in all cases. That’s supposed to be the job of the legislature.
Appalled (0ae745) — 2/6/2024 @ 11:48 amMcClintock’s view on impeachment would have caused him to vote against the first Trump impeachment (which I’m sure he did), as what was charged was neither criminal not unconstitutional. It was merely a corrupt breach of public trust, which is OK by Tom.
Yet another politician I like but do not agree with completely.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/6/2024 @ 12:27 pmOooof:
whembly (5f7596) — 2/6/2024 @ 12:34 pmhttps://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/wrongfully-inserting-racial-animus-into-this-case-trump-motion-says-da-in-rico-case-should-be-disqualified-maybe-even-disbarred-for-racially-charged-speech-at-black-church/
There’s zero arguments to ascertain what is or is not official acts of the President.
There’s plenty there. There is a discussion of types of acts, and how purely discretionary acts are immune from court review. But acts in defiance of otherwise-constitutional statutes are not.
If a president sends military aid to a corrupt dictatorship, there is no legal remedy.
If a president sends military aid to a corrupt dictatorship in the face of a law that says he cannot do that, then he has committed a crime and can be prosecuted. He is not above the law.
There are laws against trying to falsify electoral votes. There are laws against conspiring to disrupt Congress. There are laws against trying to deprive citizens of their votes, or the results thereof. There are laws against corruptly interfering in electoral procedures.
Any president can be charged with these. Now, perhaps Joe Biden has committed crimes regarding the Southern border, and maybe someone will make that case. But any attempt to, um, trump up some case will be met with political backlash 10 times worse than any gain hoped for. Playing to the choir is never a good idea, even though that is Trump’s stock in trade.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/6/2024 @ 12:35 pm‘Wrongfully inserting racial animus into this case’: Trump motion says DA in RICO case should be disqualified, maybe even disbarred, for ‘racially charged’ speech at Black church
It WAS tacky, but in this day and age? And Trump is not above that himself, talking about how a Hispanic judge was a shill for Mexico.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/6/2024 @ 12:37 pm@379
Asylum cases, by law, must be detained.
That’s what the law says.
The Biden administration is ignoring that.
Are you arguing that Biden could be charged (post-Presidency) for not following this law?
whembly (5f7596) — 2/6/2024 @ 12:38 pmI think Courts should be able to establish what are and are not “official acts of the Presidency”, and that those official acts enjoys immunity unless Congress impeaches/convicts the President. But, that’s pie in the sky as I’m sure that runs afoul to separation of powers doctrines.
The idea was to avoid holding a trial. Are you now saying the should hold a trial to see if they should hold a trial?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/6/2024 @ 12:38 pm@380
Trump’s not an attorney, and as such isn’t held to the same professional standards are Willis, as the DA.
whembly (5f7596) — 2/6/2024 @ 12:39 pmAre you arguing that Biden could be charged (post-Presidency) for not following this law?
If it is that clear. I am willing to bet that there are 5 pages of that rule and 100 exceptions and waffle-words.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/6/2024 @ 12:39 pmTrump’s not an attorney, and as such isn’t held to the same professional standards are Willis, as the DA.
Well, he has attorneys on staff, and they support his evil theiving election-stealing, so if we are having a morals charge comparison, I win.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/6/2024 @ 12:41 pm@382
Yes.
I know there’s some separation of powers concerns with this, but set that aside a bit for now.
Today, judges, prosecutors and polices enjoys a judicial construct calls “Qualified Immunity” where it shields them from individual liability unless the official violated a clearly established constitutional right or “meat and potatoes” laws (ie Bribery, extortion, etc…).
Do Presidents enjoy, or even need, this “Qualified Immunity” doctrine?
whembly (5f7596) — 2/6/2024 @ 12:43 pm@385
I’m not having a comparison here.
Trump, et. el. is still a defendant.
AG Willis is the head prosecutor leveraging all the powers of the state and authority to prosecute individuals.
Just because you don’t like the defendants, doesn’t mean the “other side” gets a pass either.
Because, this is how norms are broken and precedents are etched into stone.
whembly (5f7596) — 2/6/2024 @ 12:46 pmwhembly,
If the judge takes the racial animus charge seriously, he will have already disqualified Willis over the affair with her associate.
Appalled (0ae745) — 2/6/2024 @ 12:51 pmWillis is sleazy for what she said at the church. But that should have nothing to do with the righteous charges against Donald Trump. I really don’t understand your full-court press in favor of that jackass.
It’s not that there aren’t issues with some of the people who oppose him (and Alvin Bragg and all his cases are crap), but you seem to see every single argument that might bend in Trump’s favor as the word of the Lord, and I really don’t know why you’re doing that.
Wouldn’t getting Trump out of public live be better for the right? And him less of a godsend for the left? In most of the country everything that Trump has touched has turned to crap — he narrows the party and enables the other one. The centrists all go to the polls thinking “F Trump!” as they mark their ballots.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/6/2024 @ 12:54 pm@388
I’m not sure this judge wants to disqualify anyone at this point, but that hearing is on the 15th.
whembly (5f7596) — 2/6/2024 @ 12:55 pm@386: Did you know, that in Robert’s Rules, any member can appeal a ruling of the Chair, EXCEPT decisions made DURING an appeal of a ruling.
There’s a reason for this, and it involves fun-house mirrors.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/6/2024 @ 12:56 pmTrump’s whole routine is chaos and obfuscation. His administration was like that, his businesses are like that and life is like that. Please can we get off this ride now?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/6/2024 @ 12:58 pmProfessors William Baude and Michael Paulsen on have posted on The Volokh Conspiracy rejoinders to objections to their position that Donald Trump is covered by Section Three of the 14th Amendment.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/6/2024 @ 1:17 pm@389
Do attorney’s not have to abide by ethic standards are not? Seems to me, that this causes some issues with adverse judgements on appeal.
1) I agree with you that Trump is the jackass.
2) Ya’ll know who was my preferred candidate, and I lost on that front.
3) I’m #NeverDemocrat. Deal with it. (slowly puts on my shades with pyrotechnics in the background)
4) I’m pushing back on the NeverTrumpers to at least consider the possibility that, while Trump shouldn’t set foot in the Whitehouse again, that using any and all possibilities to legally undermine Trump so close the election is also damaging the norms and expectations in general.
It would be a drastically different conversation had these prosecutors started this in 2020, rather than 2023.
Again, just because you believe Trump is a jackass doesn’t means you should support legal frivolous and legal contortions to “get Trump” in a naked partisan manner during election seasons.
I’ll concede that the Documents case is the one that may have legal merits, but even that, there are a ton of things that needs to by adjudicated simply because we’re dealing with former Presidents.
Absolutely. But not at all cost. The behavior by his opponents is that Trump is evil, Trump is a dictator, Trump is a monster are all connotations that any action at all, is justified.
If you can’t see how dangerous that is, then there’s going to be very little we’d agree on on this subject.
The left/Democrats (BIRM) wanted to run against Trump. It’s the only explanation that I can come up with these legal cases being purposed done during the primaries and the almost “off hand” by Democrats and media (BIRM) until the nomination. Once Trump is nominated, Trump is going to face an onslaught of negative media such that he would actually drag down ballots. We may be even see a “Blue wave” in Biden v. Trump in 2024, despite how awful Biden is.
Probably so.
Why do you think I was so adamant that we’d coalesce being a not-Trump candidate all those months ago. If we couldn’t do it last year, it’s too late and Trump is the prohibited favorite in the primary.
whembly (5f7596) — 2/6/2024 @ 1:19 pm1. When an Atlanta politician is in trouble, the race card is played. Hard, and usually at a black church. What Fani Willis did is in that tradition.
2. I gotta say that a televised hearing about Willis unfortunate looking for love in the wrong places will do more to prejudice a jury pool than what she said at the black church.
3. I don’t want the Fulton County case — which I think is a righteous one — delayed any farther. I don’t see the rights of Trump and his colleagues have been trampled here. Doing broad RICO cases is the F. Willis brand — she wasn’t doing it to keep her boyfriend emloyed.
4. Fani is going to pay a price. Leftists are ticked at her for putting this case at risk. Also, while she may avoid a televised hearing on February 15, the state legislature has appointed a committee with the power to subpoena her and embarass her. She will have a chance to have all her dirty linen aired in public. That too feels righteous to me.
5. Will I get what I want? I don’t know.
Appalled (0ae745) — 2/6/2024 @ 1:43 pm#394
Trump is not the “prohibited favorite” unless the Supreme Court does something we do not expect.
Appalled (0ae745) — 2/6/2024 @ 1:45 pm@396
I’m sure Rip will confirm, but yes, Trump is the prohibited favorite in the primary.
If Trump’s the nominee, then Biden is the prohibited favorite imo that he’ll surpass his 81 million vote in the general.
In some ways, I kind HOPE that SCOTUS will say that Trump is disqualified from running for office. At last it puts that debate to bed.
That way, we’d have a real race with Haley.
whembly (5f7596) — 2/6/2024 @ 1:58 pmIs there a criminal penalty attached?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/6/2024 @ 2:18 pmIf anyone expects the Supreme Court to disqualify Trump, they are kidding themselves. As I said before, I expect the SC to say that states cannot disqualify a candidate under Section 3, only Congress.
And yes, Trump is the prohibitive favorite to win the Republican nomination, because that is who Republican voters want.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/6/2024 @ 2:23 pmAsylum cases, by law, must be detained.
That’s what the law says.
The Biden administration is ignoring that.
@398
Dunno. If you break this law, what’s the recourse?
It’s found here:
whembly (5f7596) — 2/6/2024 @ 2:47 pmhttps://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1225
Found in sec. 1225(b)(1)(B)(IV) which states:
Again, there appears to be no criminal penalty for not detaining an alien subject.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/6/2024 @ 2:54 pm@401
If you squint really hard, you might see some provisions in the Sarbanes-Oxley Act:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/sarbanes-oxley_act
Which was used by DC prosecutors to enhance the sentencing guidelines for J6 rioters.
Actually, stand on one foot AND squint really hard, you can see it.
Allegedly.
Creative prosecutors will find novel uses for just about anything. They’d just need to let their Beria flag fly!
whembly (5f7596) — 2/6/2024 @ 3:07 pmWhich you didn’t bring up in the first place.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/6/2024 @ 3:33 pmGood luck!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/6/2024 @ 3:33 pmThey can’t. The disqualification is only from occupying the office not from being elected to it. The 20th amendment contemplates a disqualified person being elected to the presidency.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 2/6/2024 @ 4:44 pmSAD!
Political theater, but it beats legislating.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/6/2024 @ 4:53 pmTough day for Speaker Johnson, dealing with defectors on the Mayorkas impeachment vote and now this.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/6/2024 @ 5:08 pmRonna McDaniel is out:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/6/2024 @ 5:18 pmhttps://www.businessinsider.com/save-plan-student-loan-borrowers-new-debt-relief-save-income-driven-plan-2024-2
Biden was told by the Supreme Court he lacked the authority to do this. He continues to spit on the Constitution and break the law. But continue pretending he’s business as usual.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 2/6/2024 @ 5:42 pmBiden was told by the Supreme Court that the HEROES act could not be used to support a wholesale rewriting of the student loan statute, and that the plan he had put forth before that constituted a wholesale rewriting of the statute.
It does not follow that other attempts to provide student loan relief are necessarily unconstitutional; it depends what their claimed statutory basis is and whether the changes are so pervasive as to constitute a wholesale rewriting of the student loan statute.
Your claim assumes many facts not in evidence.
aphrael (4c4719) — 2/6/2024 @ 6:06 pm“Carlson said he was interviewing Putin so that Americans would finally know the truth about the war in Ukraine.”
Sweet mother of God. I suspect Evan Gershkovich and Alsu Kurmasheva, two American journalists currently imprisoned in Russia for covering the war, will not watch the “interview”. If Tucker challenges any of Putin’s lies…I’ll be shocked. He’s shown little interest in fact checking Trump so likely more of the same.
AJ_Liberty (6bea07) — 2/6/2024 @ 6:14 pmTrump is the prohibited favorite in the primary.
From your lips to God’s ears.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/6/2024 @ 6:22 pmAlthough I’ve sure you mean “prohibitive” which is a completely different meaning.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/6/2024 @ 6:24 pmHouse Republicans failed in their effort to impeach Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas
The can have another go.
The original vote was 215-215, with Steve Scalise not attending. One Republican changed his vote to NO, so that he could move to reconsider, presumably when they aren’t a man down.
Will they? Hard to say.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/6/2024 @ 6:27 pm@413: I see this was discussed.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/6/2024 @ 6:29 pmBull spit. It’s the same lie like when Biden did his other moratoriums that he knew were unconstitutional but he did them anyway. Face it. Anyone voting for Biden is voting for someone throwing the Constitution in the trash and wiping himself with it first.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 2/6/2024 @ 6:34 pmTrue.
More on Duranty and his “special relationship” with the Russian dictator or yore.
Duranty’s “reporting” was a during a time when Stalin murdered three to five million Ukrainians in the Holodomor. Funny how history can repeat, or echo.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 2/6/2024 @ 8:28 pmAbsolutely correct.
Rip Murdock (68deca) — 2/6/2024 @ 8:52 pmNikki Haley (33%) loses to “none of these candidates” (62%) in the Nevada Republican primary. No delegates were chosen, and Donald Trump didn’t compete. He will be in the Nevada Republican caucus on February 8th, where 26 delegates are available. Haley is not competing in the caucus.
Rip Murdock (bec137) — 2/6/2024 @ 9:40 pmNone of these gets more votes then nikki haley in nevada primary. The orange jesus is the messiah of the republican party.
asset (fc7895) — 2/6/2024 @ 10:18 pm@419: Leave it to Rip to lead the Trump victory lap.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/6/2024 @ 10:23 pmI really don’t know why you think that I favor Trump. I never said anything nice about him. I can’t help how the results turned out. It will be reported exactly like that in all the media outlets. No matter how it is spun, the story remains the same.
The question should be is why Haley didn’t compete in the Nevada caucuses, where she could actually win delegates.
Rip Murdock (bec137) — 2/6/2024 @ 11:30 pmIf/when Haley wins a primary, I will post that also. It’s all news.
Rip Murdock (bec137) — 2/6/2024 @ 11:54 pm“God assigned Trump to be President”
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2024/02/06/john-king-south-carolina-voters-haley-trump-vpx.cnn
How the heck do you argue with that? The more I hear from South Carolina Republicans, the more I fear for our Republic. Even absent actual evidence, she knows in her gut that the 2020 election was corrupt. God something something something blah. Cult.
It’s unclear what campaign message breaks through mega-MAGA ignorance. Rip can continue to rip Haley as a loser, finger-to-the-wind, empty vessel, but he’s yet to show using statistical evidence a strategy that can reverse the levels of ignorance that seem pretty rampant. “Christie said” ain’t exactly evidence…and you either view J6 as significant….or you don’t.
Does this godly woman seem like someone who will respond to Christie’s “full-Liz” fitness argument? Like Soylent Green, it’s the people. This is the revenge of the 2-digit-IQ people and they will not be denied. It will either result in a massive loss to weekend-at-Joe’s or more impeachment crisis theater as the retribution tour commences…unconstrained and fully validated. Like Jake and Elwood Blues, she’s on a mission from God. Until this GOP child touches the hot stove, sadly there won’t be any learnin’…
AJ_Liberty (6bea07) — 2/7/2024 @ 3:37 amIf/when Haley wins a primary, I will post that also. It’s all news.
This was one she was not competing in. She signed up, then the Trumpies moved everything to a caucus. This is just a gotcha news item, intended to embarrass. And you are right there with the “news.”
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/7/2024 @ 6:29 amPray for John Roberts to get his thumb out.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/7/2024 @ 6:34 amCould this cartoon be about the Loser’s followers?
(I don’t always agree with Wiley Miller — who is, as far as I know, no relation — but I recognize that he is a smart guy.)
Jim Miller (a8cd1d) — 2/7/2024 @ 7:29 am#417 If you want to understand that era Political Pilgrims is worth reading.
Although the Soviet Union was becoming worse under Stalin’s evil rule, many leftists were seeing progress there, perhaps partly because of the failures of the Great Depression, here.
Jim Miller (a8cd1d) — 2/7/2024 @ 7:39 amWhat’s embarrassing is that Haley lost by 2 to 1 to “none of these candidates.”
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/7/2024 @ 1:06 pmNikki Haley lost the nonbinding Nevada primary 2-1 to “None of These Candidates” (None of the Above, which means nothing practical is always an option in Nevada elections.)
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/haley-loses-nevada-republican-primary-without-trump-rcna137367
Cartoon: (by Brendan Loper)
https://www.newyorker.com/cartoons/daily-cartoon/wednesday-february-7th-none-of-these-candidates
Caption:
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 2/7/2024 @ 1:10 pmNone of these is on few ballots as politicians don’t like to be reminded of what the voters think of them. Biden, trump, none of these on national ballot would be interesting.
asset (192a2c) — 2/7/2024 @ 2:13 pmAs an American, the only valid reason for Tucker Carlson to be in Moscow is to bring Mr. Gershkovich home with him. Instead, he chose to be Putin’s tool.
As a “journalist”, I doubt we’ll see Tucker going to Ukraine to get Zelenskyy’s side of the story.
Paul Montagu (a340b1) — 2/7/2024 @ 2:24 pmThey can keep him. I get that it’s a journalistic windfall to confront evil….but Tucker is no journalist. He is a propagandist….and if his product is the expected whitewash, he should be summarily shunned.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 2/7/2024 @ 2:42 pmTucker Carlson should register as a foreign agent of Russia.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/7/2024 @ 2:43 pmEveryone in congress who opposes aid to ukraine is an agent of putin wither they register or not. MTG, bobbert and gaetz are useful idiots.
asset (f2593b) — 2/7/2024 @ 6:58 pmSad!
Rip Murdock (6503df) — 2/7/2024 @ 7:54 pmShe was hoping for miracles, of course.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/7/2024 @ 9:23 pmhe should be summarily shunned.
I don’t have any problem with Trucker going to Russia….
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/7/2024 @ 9:26 pmI’ll say this again: Trump is the bully, not the victim.
If you’re a Republican and not Trump’s pizda-ass-b!tch, then your political career is in jeopardy if you don’t fall in line.
Case in point: Mike Gallagher is one of three House members who voted against impeaching Mr. Mayorkas and, even though there’s no evidence that he committed high crimes or misdemeanors, Mr. Gallagher will likely get primaried. The irony is that a workable immigration bill is dead, but a pointless impeachment of a political appointee is still kicking, and it exemplifies how f-cked up our politics are.
Trump is why we don’t have an immigration deal, and it’s why Ukraine and Israel and Taiwan are betrayed.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 2/7/2024 @ 9:36 pmThe word that came to my mind today is malevolent, as in, Trump is a malevolent force on my party and my country, but he’s going to get nominated and it’s going to get ugly for the rest of this year, win or lose, and this will put me in a really bad, pissed off mood for this year as well. You know it’s f-cked up when purveyors of evil like Putin and purveyors of disinformation like Tucker and doing victory laps. This is so goddam frustrating.
Same BS every day. Why wont trumpsters stop being populists who loathe corporate republican free trade economic libertarian neo-cons. Can’t you be good little drones again and take your marching orders from koch bros. think tanks like the federalists and club for growth and vote what ever mitt romney/jeb bush clone we run, so we can continue to sell out the white working class to the multi-national corporations!
asset (f2593b) — 2/7/2024 @ 10:31 pmIf you’re a Republican and not Trump’s pizda-ass-b!tch, then your political career is in jeopardy if you don’t fall in line.
It’s a problem. There are only two companies you can work for, and one is run by a madman, and the other one is run by fools.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/7/2024 @ 11:14 pm@442 Not fools. Biden and the democrat establishment has a job to do for the deep state. They must do what ever it takes to keep the left party base from taking over the democrat party Because once the left has neutralized the right they will come after them! Get tough on border like Obama the deporter in chief. Biden gets primaried by somebody other then marianne williamson. Until you understand the realpolik it is not foolishness it has a purpose. The deep state can tolerate trumpsters not the squad.
asset (f2593b) — 2/8/2024 @ 2:28 amI know Haley is doing better than expected, despites phony-baloney astroturf polls and rigged party primaries, because the Democrat media now has her in their sights. As in gunsights. As in “shoot her down” in case she might be the nominee instead of Trump.
Not that I would vote for her any more than I would vote for Kamala Harris. But a lot of people would rather vote for her than for Trump.
nk (890a96) — 2/8/2024 @ 5:25 amThere’s a trick to herding cattle. Actually, there are a lot of tricks to herding cattle, but this is one is for gathering a scattered herd.
You make your first bunch the biggest, and then hold them in place. (They don’t need much holding if they’re already fed and watered.) Then you hunt down the smaller bunches and scattered heads and haze them towards the big bunch. They will gravitate there like water to a pool.
What? It’s an open thread, ain’t it?
nk (890a96) — 2/8/2024 @ 5:34 amWhat do you do with the bull whose intent is to keep the herd scattered?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 5:43 amThe cows with calves, as well. One of two things.
Segregation. You only put your four-year old market steers and heifers in the trail herd. The breeding stock stays behind on the range.
For rebels that slip through, cowboys have to eat too.
nk (149173) — 2/8/2024 @ 5:58 amThere was a movie, Cattle Empire with Joel McCrea, the progenitor of the TV show Rawhide, with a scene of that second option early in the movie.
nk (149173) — 2/8/2024 @ 6:04 am*shot it in the rump*
nk (149173) — 2/8/2024 @ 6:06 amLive oral argument link:
https://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_arguments/live.aspx
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 6:07 am7AM Pacific
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 6:08 amThese are the main questions, afaik:
1. Is the President an “officer”?
2. Does disqualification require a Congressionally-approved procedure?
3. Is disqualification a criminal matter, or a civil one?
4. Is disqualification a state-by-state matter, under state election codes, or a federal matter?
5. If it is a federal matter, what court has jurisdiction and using what rules?
After that we can get to “Was it an insurrection?” and “Did Donald Trump engage in it?”
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 6:25 am@ 450. Thank you, Kevin!
nk (149173) — 2/8/2024 @ 6:31 am@452: Since Congress requires 2/3rds of each House to remove a disqualification, can they simply refuse to provide any needed disqualification procedure by minority intransigence?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 6:35 amOpinions (no audio) at 10AM EST before case.
Go here for liveblog: https://www.scotusblog.com/
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 6:54 amOpinion in Department of Agriculture Rural Development v. Kirtz
The court holds unanimously that a consumer can sue a federal agency for violating the terms of the Fair Credit Reporting Act of 1970.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 7:04 amOpinion in Murray v. UBS Securities
Unanimous: The court holds in Murray v. UBS that under the whistleblower provision of the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, a whistleblower is not required to prove that his employer acted with retaliatory intent.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 7:07 amLast opinion. Audio starts after Sotomayor shuts up.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 7:08 amTrump’s side is first.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 7:11 amThey are arguing that US Term Limits bars using Section 3 as a qualification for office.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 7:14 amRoberts is dubious.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 7:15 amKagan is aghast.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 7:18 amThe Trump folks are relying on Griffin’s Case, and Kagan is almost laughing at them.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 7:19 amOOOPs. Now it’s Kagan, that must have been either Sotomayor or Jackson.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 7:21 amFirst justice was Sotomayor.
Barrett is arguing that there might be some difference between the federal and state levels.
Alito is arguing that barring a candidate is different than barring someone from taking office. “Who can enforce section 3?”
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 7:27 amSotomayor points out that states routinely disqualify candidates for underage, etc.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 7:30 amJackson tries to get back to “officer”, rest of the court isn’t interested.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 7:34 amDoes the fact that Congress can lift a disability mean that prior determination isn’t valid? The answer seems to be no.
Jackson attacks the low-hanging “officer” nonsense.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 7:39 amTrump’s guy isn’t all that keen on the “officer” thing.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 7:45 amThe “officer” usage in the Constitution seems to be mishegas.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 7:51 amBarrett tosses a whole new wrinkle in, by suggesting that a post-election Congressional enactment of a disqualification rule is in tension with impeachment.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 7:57 amThey seem to be running over Trump’s 40 minutes.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 8:00 amThe Trump bottom line is that Section 3 is not self-executing.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 8:02 amNow for Colorado
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 8:03 amThomas is drilling Murray (colorado) on the history after the civil war, where states did not disqualify federal candidates. Murray replies that elections were different back then, and mostly party-controlled and it wasn’t really until a Congressman arrived to take office that objections could be made.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 8:11 amKavanaugh recites my #452. Who decides?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 8:14 amIt looks unlikely that the Court will allow individual states to make this decision, due to a diversity of procedures and standards.
Murray is handicapped by not being able to argue a federal disqualification.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 8:17 amThe Court really does not like the mixture of conflicting state-level rulings.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 8:23 amGorsuch(?): On Jan 7th, was Trump disqualified from continuing as president? What would compel a subordinate to obey an order?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 8:33 amMurray replies to the lack of uniformity by noting that it is only that way in the absence of federal procedure, but there is no dormant Supremacy clause that bars state action when Congress does nothing.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 8:35 amWe are clearly in penalty minutes now.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 8:37 amOr, rather stoppage time.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 8:39 amThe Colorado case, narrowly defended, is untenable. Sotomayor finally tries to get Murray off of the state-level case.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 8:42 amMurray makes a strong case for doing it now rather than after Trump has won.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 8:43 amThis is really a knarly federalism question. How did they solve the Gordian Knot again?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 8:46 amGorsuch seems still stuck on the “officer” thing. *sigh*
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 8:49 amNote to self: Lists suck and are never ever “all-inclusive.”
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 8:59 amLists always end up with a “+” at the end (or noticeably lack one).
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 9:00 amStevenson, representing Colorado itself.
They strongly suggest that Colorado has an absolute right to determine that candidates are qualified.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 9:04 amShe is defending the Secretary of State’s actions and the state’s procedures.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 9:07 amTrump not indicted under 18 USC 2383, so probably not.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/8/2024 @ 9:09 amMY brain is full. It will be interesting to read the reviews.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 9:12 amTrump not indicted under 18 USC 2383, so probably not.
This is a civil disability, not a criminal one.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 9:12 amWasn’t that one of your predictions?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/8/2024 @ 9:14 am@493
What’s the civil code that describes insurrectiony conducts ?
whembly (5f7596) — 2/8/2024 @ 9:17 amAmendment 14, Section 3.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 9:20 amLook, I listened to all of this thing, with 9 justice snd 3 lawyers going through every nook and cranny. To those who just dropped in, listen to the tape before you speak.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 9:21 amIt’s interesting that Jackson and Gorsuch are looking at the “officer” off-ramp. One thing that was hard to read: this is a state-level case and the respondents were defending that while the petitioners were talking more globally.
There was some indication among the justices at the end that they may want to review this at a higher level. They are clearly uncomfortable with a state-by-state process, but also don’t want to just punt.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 9:25 amAre you now setting the rules? It’s our right to comment without listening at all to the argument. 😉
I did listen; I see the at least a 7-2 ruling against Colorado, if not 9-0. Colorado’s presentation was weak; answering a question a Justice didn’t ask isn’t a winning strategy.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/8/2024 @ 9:26 am@496
I mean, if they want to sorta punt, they can argue that Section 5 directs your to use the federal code for insurrection, and end with: Was Trump convicted of engaging in insurrection?
It’s a punt in a way that they’re not really wading into whether or not he actually engaged in insurrection.
whembly (5f7596) — 2/8/2024 @ 9:29 amAs I said before, I expect the SC to say that states cannot disqualify a candidate under Section 3, only Congress.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/8/2024 @ 9:35 amI’m listening to bits and bobs of this hearing too, and I’m at Justice Jackson’s question…
She’s trying to get the Colorado attorney to explain how his argument makes sense given that POTUS is NOT on the list.
She’s making the point that the POTUS is far different from state officials and members of Congress.
She seems to argue that POTUS is not an officer of the US.
The Colorado attorney seems to flub this one.
Didn’t expect this line of inquire from Justice Jackson…
whembly (5f7596) — 2/8/2024 @ 9:37 amThe Court does not want to have this be 50 state rulings, but they also don’t want to declare the 14th Amendment insurrection clause a dead letter. I look for them to look at the process in Colorado and/or elsewhere and use it to make a national ruling. One way or the other.
This is a federalism question, and presidential elections are almost entirely run by the states. To say that states have no say here seems difficult. But, again, 50 state actions here brings chaos.
On the flip side you have the lack of a federal process where, in some kind of Dormant Supremacy Clause, Congress can by inaction preempt the states. That is also not viable.
Between these two positions, where the law is unclear, we have the federal courts “who say what the law is.” I think they will. The decision will reverse Colorado, 9-0, but then it will answer the qualification question nationally.
Also 9-0, but which 9-0 is hard to say.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 9:39 am> I mean, if they want to sorta punt, they can argue that Section 5 directs your to use the federal code for insurrection, and end with: Was Trump convicted of engaging in insurrection?
I doubt that’s going to be the outcome, because the implication of that outcome was that section three would only have applied to Confederate officers who had been tried and convicted, and adding that *procedural* requirement would have completely undermined the *substantive* goals of the clause.
As much as I hate it, the ‘officer’ clause is the easiest offramp.
What would be ideal in this situation is if Congress could use its power under the Elections Clause to clarify this, but there’s no way to get a majority behind any particular clarification.
aphrael (4c4719) — 2/8/2024 @ 9:40 amgiven that POTUS is NOT on the list.
Lists suck. Last year I was reviewing a book for an organization that operates in 41 countries. They had a list talking about “all religions: Christian, Jew or Hindu”, neglecting the 7 Muslim countries that the organization operates in.
My edit: “all religions.
: Christian, Jew or Hindu”This is how you get LGTBQ+
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 9:43 amAs much as I hate it, the ‘officer’ clause is the easiest offramp.
You hate it because it is a dereliction of duty.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 9:44 amWill they overrule Griffin’s Case?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/8/2024 @ 9:44 amWhat would be ideal in this situation is if Congress could use its power under the Elections Clause to clarify this, but there’s no way to get a majority behind any particular clarification.
What happens in a Constitutional Crisis of this sort is that the Court sorts it out. Sometimes that works (US v Nixon), sometimes it doesn’t (Dred Scott v Sandford).
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 9:45 amWill they overrule Griffin’s Case?
CJ Chase did that himself 2 years later, and in any event it was a different question. Accepting Griffin’s argument, every decision by the disqualified judge would have to be vacated. The case here is not a retroactive one.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 9:47 amMitchell (Trump’s attornies?)… made a good point I think that Gorsuch briefly touched on…
If Trump is disqualified under Section 3 as of Jan 6, 2021, then any actions he took before leaving office – or – if he gets reelected somehow (I think he’s saying), then those acts would be subject to challenge in federal court to be vacated as unconstitutional.
whembly (5f7596) — 2/8/2024 @ 9:47 amUnless of course, one wanted to undo any action by President Trump Jan 7 – Jan 20th.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 9:48 am@510: THAT is Griffin’s Case, but that’s really the only similarity.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 9:48 amthe implication of that outcome was that section three would only have applied to Confederate officers who had been tried and convicted
And most of those disqualifications were ministerial at the state level, or using the Qualification of Members clause in Congress.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 9:50 amI see the following possible outcomes:
1. Uphold Colorado
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 9:57 am2. Reverse, Not an officer or similar. Weak and cowardly, but it’s there.
3. Reverse and
–a. Declare it is a federal question and
—-1. Requires Congress to pass a procedure
—-2. Requires a federal court to review evidence
—-3. The Supreme Court shall now rule:
——a. Qualified
——b. Not Qualified
–b. Declare it to be non-justiciable and a matter for the voters
The whole line about how Congress can remove a disability will be ignored — like a pardon, a criminal is a criminal even though he might get a pardon.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 9:59 amNot quite.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/8/2024 @ 10:14 amSource
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/8/2024 @ 10:14 amRip, I know what Griffin’s Case was, involving a habeas appeal about someone convicted by a judge who should have not been a judge. The basis was that it would undo every act the judge did.
Besides not being precedential, it was also not on point. The current case is not retroactive. Further, CJ Chase ruled the opposite way on another case a bit later, saying that Section 3 WAS self-enforcing.
The Court did not seem included to defer to Griffin; they don’t have to “overrule” it as it isn’t a SC case.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 10:24 amI believe it was in the Jefferson Davis case where Chase ruled that the clause was self-executing. There are those who attack Chase on both cases, saying they were both political decisions.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 10:32 amThis is a case where for the good of the country Roberts should pursue whatever outcome can get closest to unanimity.
In that vein, I think 3(a)(3) is out of the question. And I don’t think 3(b) is reasonable. So I think we end up with (2) or some form of 3(a) that doesn’t get to step 3.
aphrael (71d87c) — 2/8/2024 @ 10:38 amThere’s another issue, aphrael — they don’t want it coming back, either, and the buck stops there.
Saying he’s not an officer guts the 14th Amendment utterly. If the top job, the commander-in-chief, is not covered then there is no rational or moral basis for Section 3.
Upholding Colorado has no upside, so they are going to have to choose a federal answer.
I guess they could side with Trump and say the provisions is NOT self-executing wrt the President and that Congress needs to act. This may result in Congress acting as they count the Electoral votes, with their options being “Allow the election-stealer to take office” OR “Steal the election.” Neither good.
Any other course eventually gets them to 3(a)(3).
My question is this: Why are we still dealing with this toxic man?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 10:57 amWhat I would like to see is a principled 9-0 vote that Trump is disqualified. Also, a winning lotto ticket.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 10:59 am“Gorsuch(?): On Jan 7th, was Trump disqualified from continuing as president? What would compel a subordinate to obey an order?”
I would think there would need to be some sort of inquiry with due process. The question is who and how much?
“As much as I hate it, the ‘officer’ clause is the easiest offramp.”
This is true but it leaves one with the unsatisfying conclusion that an insurrectionist cannot be a Senator or House member, but he can be the head of the Executive Branch. Without more evidence of why the framers would do that with the 14A, it seems like a tough conclusion to market to “we the people”. Along with the question about the oath, this would be the least satisfying to the average voter. I would prefer something that gets at due process.
I want a ruling that puts future insurrectionists on notice and challenges Congress to create a clear process. Then I want this court to not grant cert on the question of immunity so the J6 trial has a shot of starting early this summer.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 2/8/2024 @ 11:04 amNot everyone does.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/8/2024 @ 11:33 am59.
Stopping the certification would not have accomplished that.
It would, if the constitution and laws of the United States had been followed, have made House Speaker Nancy Pelosi Acting President of the United States, and Trump knew that, (that explains why he wanted no more than a 10-day delay) even if it could be that some of the people who stormed the Capitol did not (and I’m wondering how these members of Congress could overlook that)
Trump had no intention of attempting a coup by military force (and if he did he didn’t exactly need to stop the counting to do that).
Trump had rejected anything along these lines when asked to do so by Mike Flynn and Sydney Powell in an Oval Office meeting on the night of December 18, 2020 at which people from the White House counsel’s office were present, and also Rudolph Giuliani, (who was called in for reinforcement by White House counsel Pat Cipollone and others) all of whom argued against what Mike Flynn was proposing. (seizing voting machines)
Trump did not want to do anything that had no basis whatsoever in law.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 2/8/2024 @ 11:36 amNot with Alito and Thomas on the Court. Based on your taxonomy, this will be the result:
3. Reverse and
–a. Declare it is a federal question and
—-1. Requires Congress to pass a procedure
Trump qualified, since Congress has not enacted a procedure. If Trump is later convicted of insurrection (ha!), he can be impeached.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/8/2024 @ 11:39 amIn the United States, unlike many other democracies, the top office holder does not continue in office if he is not replaced. His term ends at the end of 1441 days, precisely at noon and not one second can be added to his term by any disruption in government.(Going to year round Daylight Savings Time in the middle of his term could subtract one hour, but in any case that would require an Act of Congress)
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 2/8/2024 @ 11:41 amThe problem with that, Rip, is that it demands federal Supremacy through inaction, in an election process that is almost entirely conducted by the states who hold near-plenary power.
It may be less dissatisfying than any other plan, but are you trying to tell me that Alito and Thomas are Trump cultists?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 11:45 amThere is a danger to the Court here, of course, but even if the Court chooses to avoid a decision, they only saddle Congress with the duty.
At least if the Court does it, it might be based on evidence, law and logic. If Congress does it next January to President-elect Trump, it will be on purely political grounds and FAR more dangerous.
To me, this is Roberts’ moment. Can he bring in a solid, final, near-unanimous decision, or will the court fracture into 5 different camps?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 11:50 amRelated News:
The resolution reads:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/8/2024 @ 11:50 amAnd, again, why are we allowing this to continue?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 11:51 am“did not engage in insurrection or rebellion against the United States.”
Not one member of the Supreme Court cared to talk about that, nor whether Trump played a part.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 11:52 amBut only 65? I take that as good news.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 11:53 amKevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 10:57 am
Saying he never was an officer doesn’t gut it – it just means that Trump slips through the cracks, as every person elected to the president in the history of the United States, with the exception of George Washington, had previously taken an oath to support the Constitution of the United States – and that only if the presidential oath is not such an oath.
What you are probably thinking of is the presidency not being an “office…under the United States” but, if it’s not, then impeachment doesn’t disqualify the person impeached and convicted from holding it.
In fact a president could not be removed from the presidency if it wasn’t an “office”
Because nobody in politics is both willing and able to argue intelligently with him.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 2/8/2024 @ 11:55 amI agree with someone on NPR that the decision will be 9-0 or 8-1 (with Sotomayor possibly dissenting)
I think Justice Clarence Thomas will write a concurring opinion saying that Colorado could disqualify a presidential candidate on any basis, but that nothing has been shown to show that it did on any other a basis than determining that Trump was disqualified on the basis of Section 3 of the 14th amendment, without any other basis in state law, and they can’t do that.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 2/8/2024 @ 12:03 pm> And, again, why are we allowing this to continue?
Because too many people either don’t see the danger or assume the danger is a nonexistent hallucination by members of a different tribe. Not to mention a lot of people who *welcome* the danger because, if realized, they think it will help them achieve their policy objectives.
aphrael (71d87c) — 2/8/2024 @ 12:13 pm@Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 9:57 am
3. Reverse and
–a. Declare it is a federal question and
-4. Applies only after a candidate is elected/
Although voters can take into account the possibility that a candidate for president may eventually be found disqualified, in which case the vice president on that ticket will become president.
But the candidate must have an opportunity to petition Congress to remove the disability.
Congress may by law set up a procedure.
It did, (although that seems targeted at lower offices) but it was repealed in 1948 in a general revision of the US code because there was then no longer any person to whom Section 3 could apply to, just like today we might soon repeal a provision in law dealing with membership in Germany’s Nazi Party from 1933 to 1945 (the law saying that someone had to sign on a visa application that they had not been)
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 2/8/2024 @ 12:17 pmwhembly (5f7596) — 2/8/2024 @ 9:47 am
As null and void.
In particular, this would apply to pardons. I don’t think the Supreme Court wants to go there (and neither does almost anyone else)
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 2/8/2024 @ 12:23 pmI’m saying, based on their questions and their history, they are the most likely to support Trump’s position. For example, both said they would have heard Texas’s lawsuit challenging the 2020 election. Alito and Thomas also dissented in the 7-2 Trump v. Vance case, where the Court said “Article II and the Supremacy Clause do not categorically preclude, or require a heightened standard for, the issuance of a state criminal subpoena to a sitting President”.
9-0 or 8-1 in favor of Trump.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/8/2024 @ 12:23 pmSo far.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/8/2024 @ 12:24 pm9-0 or 8-1 in favor of Trump.
No. It may be in favor of Trump’s non-self-executing argument, but it decides nothing and may bring Congress to the brink later. They would be doing it for their ease, and doing the country a large disservice.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 12:33 pm@521
Not really. Section 3 would cover all the positions listed. It’s just puts pressure on Congress to judicially and in good-faith leverage their impeachment powers.
Correct. I think it starts here. Where they’ll land is anyone’s guess.
But, section 5 already directs Congress to enforce provisions of the 14th, and they already have, with current insurrection federal laws.
Simple.
Other people gets to vote too.
whembly (5f7596) — 2/8/2024 @ 12:43 pmBottom line, the difference is that Biden cooperated and Trump obstructed.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 2/8/2024 @ 12:49 pmStill, the report casts a poor light on Biden’s mental faculties, so the choice still comes down to mentally diminished and mentally unhinged/unraveling. Great job, Dems and GOP, you both did our country a major disservice.
@543
The DOJ is F’ing with all of us…
If you read the filing, check this out:
Turley is spitting fire:
whembly (5f7596) — 2/8/2024 @ 1:16 pmThe arguments caught almost all the main points that could be made. Trump’s lawyer several times explained why he did not bring up several issues,
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 2/8/2024 @ 1:16 pmwhembly, Trump willfully retained 15 boxes of records that contained 197 classified documents, but he cooperated with the feds and returned them (eventually) without penalty. That’s the actual comparison.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 2/8/2024 @ 1:35 pmBiden skates the deep state protects its own. No prosecution after biden leaves office. Trump had right to declassify as president senator biden did not.
asset (50362e) — 2/8/2024 @ 2:28 pmRule of Law tears are flowing.
lloyd (7e8349) — 2/8/2024 @ 2:39 pmTurley seems to forget that the DOJ has held since 1973 that “indictment or criminal prosecution of a sitting President would impermissibly undermine the capacity of the executive branch to perform its constitutionally assigned functions.”
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/8/2024 @ 2:39 pm“Deciding nothing” is the point. Given the choice, I’m sure that the SC would rather not be involved at all. Still, I believe that will be the vote 9-0 or 8-1 in favor of Trump. Trump could always be impeached if found guilty of insurrection.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/8/2024 @ 2:44 pm@549 The filing had this covered, and so did Turley:
“It would be difficult to convince a jury that they should convict him-by then a former president well into his eighties-of a serious felony that requires a mental state of willfulness.”
lloyd (8a8826) — 2/8/2024 @ 2:49 pmSAD!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/8/2024 @ 2:52 pmA Trump Justice Department can always reject that determination and file charges against Biden. The SC report is not binding, only recommendations.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/8/2024 @ 2:53 pmThe House could also add the “willful retention of classified information” to its Biden impeachment articles.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/8/2024 @ 2:56 pmBut, section 5 already directs Congress to enforce provisions of the 14th, and they already have, with current insurrection federal laws.
Every other part of the 14th Amendment is enforceable through state law, through civil suit AND through federal law. It’s just that here the effect is never local.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 2:57 pmBut, whembly, are you really arguing that
1) States cannot enforce this because federal law and the Supremacy Clause, even though
2) There is no federal law providing a civil course of action?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 2:59 pmGreat job, Dems and GOP, you both did our country a major disservice.
Once the GOP settles on the terminally damaged Trump, Biden will bow out and Newsom and Harris can fight it out. For America!
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 3:01 pmName your poison.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/8/2024 @ 3:14 pm521. Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 10:57 am
No, that would not be the choice.
The choice would be between “Allow the would-be election-stealer to take office” OR “Allow his vice president to assume office while he exercises power from a back room”
The Twentieth amendment is on point: (its Section 3 deals, among other things, with discovering an impediment to a president taking office – they were probably thinking mainly of him not getting enough votes but it covers this too)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twentieth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
Now, this could create a situation similar to that of the first Trump Administration with lower ranking officials (and/or the vice president) restraining Trump’s worst impulses.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 2/8/2024 @ 4:24 pmThose would be the choices if it was decided when the Electoral votes were counted.
Unless the Democrats tried to disqualify the vice president elect also on grounds of the 14th amendment’s Section 3 (because say clemency was promised to the Jan 6 defendants and that’s giving aid and comfort to the enemies of the constitution.)
Now the “aid and comfort” clause was bought up by Justice Alito (in the context of a hypothetical about other states disqualifying (Biden) because he sent money to Iran (even for what he thought were good reasons) and Trump’s lawyer mentioned that the aid and comfort clause was also in the treason provision and there it has always been interpreted as meaning aiding in war.
But the 14th amendment refers to enemies of the constitution, so theoretically they could do it.
But I say even if they had the votes to disqualify Trump. they probably wouldn’t have the votes to do that to his vice president also and make Hakeem Jeffries Acting President for up to four years..
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 2/8/2024 @ 4:27 pmLawrence Lessig’s scenario of states ordering electors not to vote for the winner (on the grounds that, as things stand now, if a state could order electors to keep their pledges, it could also order them to violate their pledges – if they could tell them whom they had to cast their votes for they can tell them to vote for anyone) was also brought up. And the lawyer said there was an issue of changing the law after the date the election took place so the Justice changed the hypothetical to say they did it 3 days before the election because the polls were bad. I don’t think the lawyer gave an answer.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 2/8/2024 @ 4:28 pmSomeone on MAGA radio said that now he thought that Biden might last asa candidate even till the election.
They’ve come up with examples of mental deficiency.
Biden can’t remember names. He called French president Macron – Mitterrand (and also described the G-7 as NATO allies which is not exactly what they are – they are the top western industrialized countries 6 in NATO plus Japan – it <i/ is hard to describe, which is why it is called the G-7.
And Biden could not remember the name of that terrorist group that that rules Gaza that Israel is fighting a war with that he’s trying to negotiate a ceasefire with and finally had to be helped out by a reporter.
https://nypost.com/2024/02/07/news/biden-appears-to-forget-hamas-name
A New York Post editorial described it this way:
https://nypost.com/2024/02/07/opinion/joe-bidens-mental-decline-cannot-be-ignored
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 2/8/2024 @ 4:42 pmBiden could not remember what year it was that his son died. (it was 2015 the year before the 2016 presidential election)
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 2/8/2024 @ 4:44 pmIn reality, the selection of electors has been farmed out by the states to the political parties themselves, with a list of nominees submitted to the secretaries of states or election commissioners. States have very little control over electors, and none over delegates to the party conventions.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/8/2024 @ 4:45 pmLawrence Lessig’s scenario of states ordering electors not to vote for the winner ……..
Always distrust information from Lawrence Lessig.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 5:33 pmJustice is not blind, it’s partisan.
NJRob (2a9183) — 2/8/2024 @ 6:02 pmThere are two different words in Section 3: “office” and “officer”
“Office refers to the positions that can (or can’t) be held by a person “Officers” are people who hold, or held, a subset of them.
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 2/8/2024 @ 6:08 pmscenario of states ordering electors not to vote for the winner
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 5:33 pm
ne of the justices was taking that scenario (which came from Lawrence Lessig – he even wrote a book about it – seriously. Lessig claimed that the court needed to clarify its ruling on how states could control the vote of the Electors,
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 2/8/2024 @ 6:12 pmThe following question appears on my primary ballot:
> To support all Alameda students and maintain quality schools without increasing tax rates by attracting and retaining excellent teachers; sustaining strong academic programs in reading, writing, math, science, and arts; supporting struggling students; and preparing students for college/careers; shall an Alameda Unified School District measure levying $0.585/building area square foot capped at $15,998/parcel, and’$598/unimproved parcel, be adopted, raising $24,000,000 annually for 9 years with senior exemptions, audits, citizens’ oversight, and all funds staying local?
Leaving aside how I feel (and what I think) about the policy question — yikes that’s a poorly written question.
aphrael (71d87c) — 2/8/2024 @ 6:26 pm@546
There’s an allegation that Trump didn’t cooperate.
Trump is the only person, it seems, that you’re unwilling to at least consider he’s innocent and that the prosecution must prove that he did, in fact, break the law.
Joe Biden, it seems, only escaped prosecution because Hur pulled a “no reasonable prosecutor would take this case”…and that Biden is too enfeeble and mentally compromise. That’s, a hella indictment there.
whembly (5f7596) — 2/8/2024 @ 6:30 pm@549
Turley mentioned elsewhere, that Hur even stated that even if that 1973 OLC memo wasn’t in effect, he still wouldn’t have brought charges.
whembly (5f7596) — 2/8/2024 @ 6:31 pm@554
That.
And also add that his very own prosecutor deemed him too enfeebled to stand trial. If a POTUS couldn’t be charged (assuming that ’73 OLC wasn’t in effect), then he shouldn’t hold office as he’d be too enfeeble to exercise his presidential powers.
whembly (5f7596) — 2/8/2024 @ 6:34 pm@556
Yes.
Hence why I’m saying impeachment, is the proper venue to prosecute an insurrectiony President. And then that former POTUS can be federally charged for insurrection.
What’s stopping Jack Smith from charging Trump with Insurrection?
whembly (5f7596) — 2/8/2024 @ 6:36 pmEven Andy McCarthy is reading this tea leave:
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/question-about-hur-report/?utm_source=recirc-desktop&utm_medium=homepage&utm_campaign=right-rail&utm_content=corner&utm_term=third
Frankly, I vastly prefer Biden to step down. The Kamala Harris becomes the presumptive Democrat Nominee™ against Trump and stands a really good chance in beating him, despite her unpopularity. She won’t have the same “Hillary Clinton Baggage”. Just a run-of-the-mill government democrat.
whembly (5f7596) — 2/8/2024 @ 6:44 pmwhembly, it’s beyond mere allegation. He was indicted for that lack of cooperation, meaning SC Smith has evidence beyond reasonable doubt that he obstructed law enforcement and instructed his minions to do the same.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 2/8/2024 @ 6:48 pmThe subpoena and the FBI search should tell anyone not in denial that Trump lied and obstructed.
“Office refers to the positions that can (or can’t) be held by a person “Officers” are people who hold, or held, a subset of them.
Nobody cares.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 7:22 pmLeaving aside how I feel (and what I think) about the policy question — yikes that’s a poorly written question.
Maybe a bit argumentative?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 7:23 pmHence why I’m saying impeachment, is the proper venue to prosecute an insurrectiony President. And then that former POTUS can be federally charged for insurrection.
What’s stopping Jack Smith from charging Trump with Insurrection?
1) Because the 14th amendment cases after the civil war were civil cases — there was no criminal penalty imposed for having violated an oath, only a civil disqualification.
2) To invoke the Supremacy Clause the feds have to point to some federal law that overrides state laws. The absence of such a law is NOT an argument for the feds. Simply having a criminal law regarding some specified crime does not mean that any state law regulating broader behavior is enjoined. If the feds have a law against murdering a federal agent, that does not mean that states cannot have laws against murder.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 7:29 pmFrankly, I vastly prefer Biden to step down. The Kamala Harris becomes the presumptive Democrat Nominee™ against Trump and stands a really good chance in beating him, despite her unpopularity. She won’t have the same “Hillary Clinton Baggage”. Just a run-of-the-mill government democrat.
You don’t know Kamala Harris then. She is a total piece of work.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 7:30 pmThe problem with Biden today is not about any documents, it’s that a sane and careful federal prosecutor said he is out to lunch.
Biden is suffering from common senility, likely from a series of micro-strokes. Trump seems more down the Alzheimer’s route, with cognitive gaps and wild mood swings. Neither should have responsibility for a child, let alone a nation.
As Nikki Haley said today: The first party who dumps their 80yo candidate wins.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 7:34 pmBecause justice is about choosing the right venue
DC Jury Finds Climate Skeptics Defamed ‘Hockey Stick’ Model Creator — 12 Years Later
lloyd (f2cafe) — 2/8/2024 @ 7:41 pmThey didn’t say that Mann was right, or even that he was a good person, just that comparing him to Jerry Sandusky defamed him.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 8:05 pmI believe the Mann/Steyn lawsuit was filed in Washington DC because that is where the Competitive Enterprise Institute is located, and Simberg’s libelous statement was made on their website.
Rip Murdock (6503df) — 2/8/2024 @ 9:17 pmIf Biden drops out or is dumped by the Democrats, it won’t be Harris who will be the nominee. Given her polling, that’s a no brainer.
Gavin Newsom, please pickup the white courtesy phone.
Rip Murdock (6503df) — 2/8/2024 @ 9:25 pmWell, it won’t be the Republicans. Trump favorability +59 over Nikki Haley; and +59 among Republican voters nationally.
Rip Murdock (6503df) — 2/8/2024 @ 9:38 pm@566 It would have better for biden’s re-election if he was prosecuted for knowing what we was doing instead of not for being a snile old fool who lacked the mental capacity to defend himself! Rethugs are already calling for 25th amendment. Democrats will now be asked if Biden be given mental capacity tests.
asset (1ed649) — 2/8/2024 @ 10:49 pmWell, it won’t be the Republicans.
Then they won’t win.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 11:06 pmLloyd – the case was brought in DC because it was originally brought against Competitive Enterprise Institute, which published the allegedly libellous piece by Simberg, as well as Simberg. In 2012.
This when want forum shopping. CEI is headquartered in DC, that is absolutely a proper place to being a suit against it.
a judge later dismissed the case against CEI, probably on section 230 grounds. At that point, though, moving the trial would be highly unusual.
Forum shopping is a real problem. This isn’t an example.
aphrael (4c4719) — 2/8/2024 @ 11:06 pmSimberg’s libelous statement
Given the damage awards, I think the libel was Steyn’s and Simberg just repeated it.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 11:07 pmForum shopping is a real problem. This isn’t an example.
Sure it is, if you are filing against a Section 230 sham defendant. And since Simberg was only hit for $1,000 (and Steyn for 1000 times that), it wasn’t Simberg either.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/8/2024 @ 11:09 pmNo non leftist can get a fair trial in DC. We have become Soviet Russia.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 2/9/2024 @ 5:18 am“There are reminders to all Americans that they need to watch what they say, watch what they do, and this is not a time for remarks like that; there never is.” — Ari Fleischer
nk (058dbb) — 2/9/2024 @ 5:35 amIn 2016, Trump campaigned on “repealing” (his word) New York Times v. Sullivan, the case which made it more difficult for public figures to sue for defamation on matters of public interest.
Would you say that he enjoyed mixed success?
nk (058dbb) — 2/9/2024 @ 5:39 amHow leftist do you need to be not to like being compared to Jerry Sandusky?
nk (058dbb) — 2/9/2024 @ 5:40 amWhat Mann did with his hockey stick scam made it appropriate. The analogy was apt. The way Mann talks about people shows he can dish it out, but cannot take it. That so many here have no turned their backs on free speech, the analogy is even more appropriate.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 2/9/2024 @ 6:25 amhttps://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1754474523972288898
For those who have decided to become leftists because “Trump.”
NJRob (eb56c3) — 2/9/2024 @ 6:26 amWhat the Biden cases suggests to me is that he did not have a competent chief of staff and head secretary working for him. Any modern president should have people working for him who take care of classified documents, for him (or her).
That doesn’t mean that Biden is not to blame for having those documents, but that he may be more to blame for not having the right people to take care of them.
(We know that bureacrats tried hard to protect Hillary Clinton and the Loser, from their own folly, in handling classified material. And that experts tried to protect both Obama, who insisted on using his Blackberry, and Trump, who also insisted on his phone in ways that could be listened to.)
Jim Miller (0a1d08) — 2/9/2024 @ 6:53 am> What Mann did with his hockey stick scam made it appropriate.
What Mann did with his hockey stick scam made it appropriate to imply that he is a pedophile?
Really?
> That so many here have no turned their backs on free speech, the analogy is even more appropriate.
Really?
Why are you here if you think that, NJRob?
aphrael (4c4719) — 2/9/2024 @ 7:33 amThat so many here have no turned their backs on free speech, the analogy is even more appropriate.
Rob, do you really think that “free speech” includes slander, libel and defamation? Sure Mann was a public figure in some degree (not as much as a Trump or a Biden), but there are limits.
Calling him a pedophile in print, falsely and with clear malice, is actionable in civil court. The 1st Amendment continues to protect against criminal charges and government action, but the harm, if any, to an individual is something that individual can object to and seek damages.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/9/2024 @ 7:39 amJim Miller (0a1d08) — 2/9/2024 @ 6:53 am
Part of this is the explosion in communications and data devices. Thirty years ago, classified documents came in colored folders and were unmistakable in their security requirements. There were no thumb drives, clouds or world wide web. ARPAnet was just then becoming the Internet.
I wonder how many government procedures and requirements still need updating, and how many senior officials still have no F clue what the dangers are.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/9/2024 @ 7:45 amI have lost count of the times I have shown up for jury service (only not to be picked). I did not drive an hour in morning rush hour traffic and wait around all day in the venire room with the intent not to follow the judge’s instructions, and I doubt that anybody else there did either. Jurors take the proceedings and their oaths seriously and do their best to be fair and bring in a fair verdict according to the law and the evidence.
nk (dce873) — 2/9/2024 @ 8:14 amAnd attorneys do their best to kick ideologues off the panel.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/9/2024 @ 8:24 am“What the Biden cases suggests to me is that he did not have a competent chief of staff and head secretary working for him. Any modern president should have people working for him who take care of classified documents, for him (or her).”
That’s my conclusion too. Any competent assistant takes care of these details and makes sure the rules are followed. Still, there does seem like a fair share of arrogance among the political elites. It’s a horrible example to those with clearances that follow the rules.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 2/9/2024 @ 8:33 am“Rob, do you really think that “free speech” includes slander, libel and defamation?”
Rob is not exactly careful with his pronouncements and conclusions. Shoot first, aim later. Everything is about us versus them and protecting the narrative. He’s fine with a leftist being defamed.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 2/9/2024 @ 8:38 amThe number of people who call Trump a totalitarian, who say he will destroy the nation make these cries particularly laughable.
NJRob (e6b4b9) — 2/9/2024 @ 8:49 amIncorrect.
My emphasis.
Rip Murdock (6503df) — 2/9/2024 @ 9:04 amBiden (and Trump as well) kept hard copies which might have been destroyed if they had not kept them unless they made some markings on them) and classified documents were not segregated, Not only that, but some of the classified information Biden kept were his own notebooks (which he had trouble deciphering, by the way) Petraeus had gotten in trouble for his own notes,
The rules are unreasonable (not designed for human beings) and if everybody kept them strictly, nobody would know anything about what’s going on in places like Iraq and Syria and Yemen and policy toward Iran.
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 2/9/2024 @ 9:11 amLet’s see if the courts let the puntive damages stand. I don’t think they will. Michael Mann did not suffer reputational harm and the quote read more like traditional blogger overstatement rather than calling Mann a child molester. (The quote had Mann doing to data what Sandusky did to minors. That’s tacky, but not an accusation of a heinous crime)
This is quite different than E. Jean Carrol, for example.
Appalled (91eed2) — 2/9/2024 @ 9:16 am“What Mann did with his hockey stick scam made it appropriate to imply that he is a pedophile?”
The defendants did not imply he was a pedophile. The comments in question were an attempt to draw an analogy to Penn State investigating Sandusky and finding nothing, and Penn State investigating Mann’s analysis and finding nothing.
lloyd (7e8349) — 2/9/2024 @ 9:28 am@601 Venue shopping is a thing. Let’s not rape reality like some Sandusky dude.
lloyd (7e8349) — 2/9/2024 @ 9:31 amYou cannot imagine the depths of my disappointment that I have failed to convince you, lloyd.
nk (0a34cb) — 2/9/2024 @ 10:14 amTrump Tropes. No true Trump supporter believes that “The Assigned By God Stable Genius” can get a fair trial in DC.
nk (0a34cb) — 2/9/2024 @ 10:14 amWhat was Hur’s finding other than that Biden couldn’t get convicted in DC, though he obviously broke the law. 100% correct.
lloyd (7e8349) — 2/9/2024 @ 10:22 amIt’s almost funny that Trump’s folks think the damage in Hur’s report was about the documents.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/9/2024 @ 10:37 amBiden will be dropping out of the race this month.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/9/2024 @ 10:38 amThe number of people who call Trump a totalitarian, who say he will destroy the nation make these cries particularly laughable.
And Trump would throw them all in jail for doing so. Thankfully, what citizens say about their leaders is particularly strongly protected. No politician has sued QAnon, which is way the heck over the line.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/9/2024 @ 10:40 amFar-right candidate announces for Maryland Senate seat
OK, Larry Hogan isn’t far-right, but he is to some people who have by-lines.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/9/2024 @ 10:44 amWho did Trump throw in jail while President Kevin? Please share with us your wisdom.
NJRob (e6b4b9) — 2/9/2024 @ 10:45 amLOL!
Rip Murdock (6503df) — 2/9/2024 @ 10:48 amI don’t expect either Mann or Carroll to collect their judgments.
Rip Murdock (6503df) — 2/9/2024 @ 10:50 amQAnon isn’t an organization, it is a belief system.
Rip Murdock (6503df) — 2/9/2024 @ 10:54 amMarianne Williamson dropped out too soon.
Rip Murdock (6503df) — 2/9/2024 @ 10:56 amlloyd (7e8349) — 2/9/2024 @ 10:22 am
That there were some innocent explanations for hanging on to the material that a jury might believe.
https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-security/joe-biden-classified-documents-case-special-counsel-81df1bac
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 2/9/2024 @ 11:04 amThere must have been some other contested statement other than the comparison to a different issue – maybe Man claimed that the hockey stick was not a fraud, or not a deliberate one..
This verdict, on a matter of public interest, cannot be allowed to stand.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 2/9/2024 @ 11:30 amBiden cannot survive the Hur report. He will drop out whiule there is still time for a candidate to be chosen. LBJ was in the race until the end of March, 1968. Biden can’t wait that long.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/9/2024 @ 11:34 amThat there were some innocent explanations for hanging on to the material that a jury might believe.
Also the diminished culpability of a tired, senile old man with fading memory.
Not all that great in a President either.
If you focus on the charges, you are saying “See, Trump’s not so bad!” when the real message here is “Biden is not able to do the job.”
Kevin M (ed969f) — 2/9/2024 @ 11:36 am@582
He didn’t say that.
It was an indictment of Penn State’s investigative prowess, in that, the same administration who refused to investigate Sandusky, refused to investigate Mann.
whembly (5f7596) — 2/9/2024 @ 12:38 pm@597
Except that, in the Hur report, the ghostwriter testified that Biden told him he had classified documents in his basement.
This wasn’t a case where Biden was surprised he had these documents.
He knew.
whembly (5f7596) — 2/9/2024 @ 12:49 pmWhat leftist was defamed?
Speak up.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 2/9/2024 @ 5:29 pm