Weekend Open Thread
[guest post by Dana]
Let’s go!
First news item
Sen. John Fetterman irks both sides of the aisle over his reasonable statements on the border. This after he angered Democrats for his unequivocal support of Israel:
As stalled immigration negotiations imperil U.S. aid to Ukraine and Israel, Sen. John Fetterman (D-Pa.) is blaming not only Republicans but also members of his own party for what he described as a reflexive political resistance to a border security deal.
“I hope Democrats can understand that it isn’t xenophobic to be concerned about the border,” Fetterman said in an interview. “It’s a reasonable conversation, and Democrats should engage.”
Fetterman…urged Democrats to acknowledge the large numbers of migrants streaming across the southern border. He cited the nearly 270,000 border encounters that U.S. Customs and Border Protection reported in September.
“Honestly, it’s astonishing. And this isn’t a Fox News kind of statistic. This is the government’s,” he said. “You essentially have Pittsburgh showing up there at the border.”
About the crisis at the Southern border:
Migrants at this remote area along the border are sleeping on the ground, building bonfires and relieving themselves outdoors as border agents are overwhelmed trying to process them. "This really is an illustration of the humanitarian crisis," @camiloreports says on the scene. pic.twitter.com/fE3cfkufdm
— CBS News (@CBSNews) December 7, 2023
Second news item
Drink our coffee but if you have to use the bathroom and are a Jew, forget about it:
California coffee shop workers were filmed denying a Jewish customer access to the restroom after she complained it was filled with antisemitic graffiti — telling her “Free Palestine” and accusing her of wanting to use the facilities because “Israel loves taking private property and saying it’s their own.”
Three employees at Farley’s East in Oakland stood in front of the bathroom and told a distressed-sounding woman filming them that she had to leave.
“I want to go in the restroom,” the woman repeatedly implores the staffers, who tell her it’s private property even while confirming she was a customer who’d eaten there.
A male staffer then smiles as he tells her: “I know Israel loves taking private property and saying it’s their own, but we gotta have … ”
As the woman again says that she “was a patron here and I have a right to go into the restroom,” the man replies, “And we have a right to refuse service.”
When an employee of a neighboring business steps in to offer the use of her company’s bathroom next door, the woman filming replies firmly: “No, I want to use this one. I should not be excluded and other people allowed.”
Oakland, CA – 3 antisemitic employees at Farley's East coffee house (33 Grand Ave.) are filmed denying a Jewish woman's access to a bathroom after she complained that it was filled with antisemitic graffiti.
After FINALLY allowing her inside the restroom, the employees start… pic.twitter.com/t3rFMyRIDH
— nycphotog (@nycphotog) December 7, 2023
Third news item
United Nations’ Secretary General Antonio Guterres officially requests a “humanitarian ceasefire” be declared:
I've just invoked Art.99 of the UN Charter – for the 1st time in my tenure as Secretary-General.
Facing a severe risk of collapse of the humanitarian system in Gaza, I urge the Council to help avert a humanitarian catastrophe & appeal for a humanitarian ceasefire to be declared. pic.twitter.com/pA0eRXZnFJ
— António Guterres (@antonioguterres) December 6, 2023
Israel’s U.N. Ambassador Gilad Erdan said the secretary-general invoked Article 99 to pressure Israel, accusing the U.N. chief of “a new moral low” and “bias against Israel.” “The secretary-general’s call for a ceasefire is actually a call to keep Hamas’ reign of terror in Gaza,” Erdan said in a statement.
How is Erdan wrong?
Fourth news item
Ousted speaker of the House announced he is resigning from Congress:
Former House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, who was ousted from his role by a faction of his own party earlier this year, will resign from Congress at the end of the month, he said on Wednesday.
“I have decided to depart the House at the end of this year to serve America in new ways,” McCarthy wrote in an op-ed published in The Wall Street Journal. “I know my work is only getting started.”
A report from the Los Angeles Times provides a further look into McCarthy’s spending habits. Although legal, it is nonetheless revealing:
Rambling above the rust-colored cliffs of the Palos Verdes Peninsula, the Terranea Resort is known for its ocean views, world-ranked spa and villas that can command $3,000 a night or more.
From 2012 through last June, McCarthy’s PAC shelled out more than $1 million on hotels, private air travel and eateries, the FEC records show. That’s more than double the combined total spent by the leadership PACs of the seven other lawmakers who’ve held the top House and Senate positions for their parties during all or part of that period, according to the Times analysis.
Leadership PACs are subject to fewer spending controls than other campaign accounts. In fact, the FEC determined earlier this year that those committees are free to use their money on personal expenses, without limits…
The Terranea outlays by McCarthy’s leadership PAC totaled about $124,000 over a 2 ½-year stretch ending in 2018, a period during which he served as House majority leader. In the same time, a second McCarthy committee rang up bills of about $116,000 at the hotel compound. The combined $240,000 pencils out to an average of $8,000 a month.
Fifth news item
President Biden in a bind about Ukraine and Israel aid tied to U.S. border:
When President Joe Biden sent his request to Congress last month for aid to Ukraine and Israel, he included a request for more money to help with security at the border with Mexico, a sweetener intended to both address a crisis and win over support of Republicans.
But the move has now left Biden in a box.
…
On Thursday, however, Senate Republicans showed no sign of backing down.
Senior Biden administration officials have told both sides in the negotiations that the White House is open to making it more difficult to gain asylum in the United States, according to four people familiar with the matter. One such measure would impose a stricter definition for migrants to meet when they claim they need refuge because they fear persecution in their home countries.
But Republicans say that is not enough. They want the United States to impose policies that would make most migrants ineligible for asylum and require them to wait in Mexico until their case is processed.
The impasse has left the heart of Biden’s foreign policy — support for the war in Ukraine — hanging in the balance.
Meanwhile, Ukraine continues to defend against Putin’s invasion, for its own sake and for the sake of the free world:
Ukraine’s fight is now.
Let me be clear: if Congress doesn’t pass additional Ukraine aid before the end of the year, US-provided Ukraine aid WILL run out.
America's national security is at risk if Ukraine fails.
— Rep. Jason Crow (@RepJasonCrow) December 7, 2023
Possible fallout if a deal isn’t done by the end of next week, for uh, less than noble reasons:
If there is a deal, it must be hammered out by next Friday, which lawmakers appear to regard as the drop-dead date because getting out of town for the holiday break is the highest priority. Still, I maintain that it would be the height of irresponsibility if Republicans balk at appropriating funds for lethal aid to support Ukraine’s war. Not only is it an abdication of America’s duty to provide for its own security as one of its most reckless antagonists marches through Europe, it would also save Joe Biden’s bacon.
Biden has throttled lethal aid to Ukraine from the outset of Russia’s second invasion. He has hemmed and hawed and given in to Ukraine’s request for this platform or that long past the point at which it would have meant the difference on the battlefield. Biden would love to outsource the consequences of his reluctance to Republicans, and he will do just that if the GOP fails to support the popular Ukrainian cause. Congressional Republicans shouldn’t give Biden the out he wants.
Sixth news item
The man who would be king gives Americans a look at his priorities. Same as every other one: I’M A VICTIM!!!:
All of these Biden “Political Opponent” Lawsuits against me could have been brought 3 years ago, but the slimeballs brought them right in the middle of my very successful campaign for President. The J6 Fake Case, where the Obama appointed, Trump Hating Judge, Tanya S. Chutkan, actually had the audacity to schedule the trial THE DAY BEFORE SUPER TUESDAY (always considered the biggest of all Primary days), has been put into serious question when most of the Unselect Committee’s evidence was deleted and destroyed. This illegal act, that would have shown the GUILT of Crazy Nancy Pelosi, and others, should end this Biden Witch Hunt. Our FAILING NATION is now becoming a BANANA REPUBLIC. MAGA!
Meanwhile, Trump managed to perk up the ears of everyone who fears a second Trump presidency with his latest comments to Sean Hannity:
As Donald Trump faces growing scrutiny over his increasingly authoritarian and violent rhetoric, Fox News host Sean Hannity gave his longtime friend a chance to assure the American people that he wouldn’t abuse power or seek retribution if he wins a second term.
But instead of offering a perfunctory answer brushing off the warnings, Trump stoked the fire.
“Except for day one,” the GOP front-runner said Tuesday night before a live audience in Davenport, Iowa. “I want to close the border, and I want to drill, drill, drill.”
P.S. Imagine if Trump were to win the election, what his staff might look like…
Seventh news item
This is gut-wrenching and horrific, but I think it’s a must-read. Especially for Western feminists who continue to remain silent about the vicious sexual abuse of Israeli women on Oct. 7. (By the way, it only took 8 weeks for the the United Nations Women group to finally condemn Hamas for their vile mistreatment of Israeli women on Oct. 7)…
“They violently raped me”
“Islamic Republic of Iran’s agents made us face the walls of the vehicle and gave electric shocks to our legs…They tortured me through beatings … They pulled down my trousers and raped me…I was really being ripped apart…I was throwing up a lot and… pic.twitter.com/1xdyzhttFH
— Masih Alinejad 🏳️ (@AlinejadMasih) December 7, 2023
Eighth news item
Liz Cheney on whether she’ll enter the 2024 presidential race:
Former Republican Wyoming Congresswoman Liz Cheney suggested on “CBS Mornings” on Thursday that she won’t mount a third-party presidential run if it helps former President Donald Trump in the 2024 race for the White House.
“I won’t do anything that would help him,” she said, when asked about possibly running as a third-party candidate.
Speaking of Cheney, I am currently halfway through her new book, Oath and Honor: A Memoir and a Warning. It is a riveting examination of the Jan. 6 insurrection, the villains (looking at you, Kevin McCarthy and Mike Johnson), and the dangers of a second Trump presidency. From the prologue:
This is the true story of the moment when American democracy began to unravel. It is the story of the men and women who fought to save it, and of the enablers and collaborators whose actions ensured the threat would grow and metastasize. It is the story of the most dangerous man to inhabit the Oval Office, and of the many steps he took to subvert our Constitution.
Ninth news item
The horrific shooting of three Palestinian friends walking in Vermont over Thanksgiving weekend, has left one of them paralyzed from the chest down, per the victim’s mother:
Hisham Awartani, one of the three Palestinian college students who were shot while walking in Vermont over Thanksgiving weekend, is paralyzed from the chest down after a bullet became lodged in his spine, his mother said…
Awartani and his two longtime friends from the Israeli-occupied West Bank – Kinnan Abdalhamid of Haverford College and Tahseen Ali Ahmad of Trinity College – were out for a walk on Saturday in Burlington, chatting as they often did in English and Arabic, when they were shot, according to Burlington Police Chief Jon Murad. Two of the men were also wearing traditional Palestinian scarves known as keffiyehs at the time of the attack, he said.
In addition to Awartani’s life-altering spinal injury, the two other men were shot in the upper torso and lower extremities and hospitalized in the ICU, according to police. Both of the victims have since been released from the hospital.
Note:
The suspect in the attack, 48-year-old Jason J. Eaton, was arrested Sunday and charged with three counts of attempted murder, to which he has pleaded not guilty. Authorities say they haven’t determined a motive in the attack but have said they are investigating whether the incident was motivated by hate.
Tragic in every way.
–Dana
Hello.
Dana (932d71) — 12/8/2023 @ 11:08 amDust off the 2013 immigration reform bill from the Gang of Eight, update whatever needs updating, and put it to a vote.
Sam G (8d2ed1) — 12/8/2023 @ 12:19 pmRE #9: he’s paralyzed from the chest down, not the waist.
Sam G (8d2ed1) — 12/8/2023 @ 12:21 pmNo interest in Hunter Biden bring indicted for multiple felonies that the DoJ tried to grant him immunity from?
NJRob (15296c) — 12/8/2023 @ 12:21 pmWell, then we’d have to discuss that he’s already paid the back taxed, fees and fines; and that the only reason he’s being charged is his last name is Biden. Anybody else (like Roger Stone) would not be.
Sam G (8d2ed1) — 12/8/2023 @ 12:30 pmtaxes*
Sam G (8d2ed1) — 12/8/2023 @ 12:32 pmThx, Sam G @ 3.
Dana (932d71) — 12/8/2023 @ 12:33 pmSecond news item:
This saddens me. I worked for a company headquartered in downtown Oakland, and when I would go up to the office I enjoyed going to Farley’s East for a pre-work breakfast and coffee. I know Oakland is totally left wing insufferable, but I always thought the people at Farley’s Easy were nice and friendly.
JVW (b5091e) — 12/8/2023 @ 12:40 pm“Dust off the 2013 immigration reform bill from the Gang of Eight, update whatever needs updating, and put it to a vote.”
Democrats would love that. Had that bill passed, it would’ve allowed millions of lawbreakers to jump the line, and 11 years later we would have exactly the same problem we have now. Pass some equivalent of it now and the problem will just get worse. Democrats simply don’t want to solve the problem and, other than bad PR in election years, they have no incentive to.
As it stands, anyone claiming amnesty gets a work permit that will last years because that’s how long it takes to get a final ruling even if everyone knows the claim is bogus, and most are. Democrats have known this for years and have stonewalled any attempts to address it. This won’t change. They’ll hold it hostage when threatened with stonewalling something they really care about, like every other country’s territorial integrity.
lloyd (c5e7b9) — 12/8/2023 @ 12:44 pm“the only reason he’s being charged is his last name is Biden.”
Democrats and their NeverTrumper fellow travelers had the past seven years to set a good example in this regard. You didn’t. Too bad, that’s what happens.
lloyd (c5e7b9) — 12/8/2023 @ 12:50 pmMeanwhile, back in California, Governor Newsom deals with a $68 billion projected deficit as the many new programs started with the influx of pandemic money continue to spend, while the income is back to normal.
First up to be cut, the $25/hour minimum health worker wage that was announced with such fanfare a few months ago. My prediction: government employers will get a carve-out. But I suspect this won’t make much of a dent.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/8/2023 @ 12:53 pm“the only reason he’s being charged is his last name is Biden.”
All these years and he never thought to change it, too.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/8/2023 @ 12:54 pmHad that bill passed, it would’ve allowed millions of lawbreakers to jump the line
What line? By the time the current law has allowed in all the uncles and grandparents and other connected people with legal priority, the entire quota from Mexico is all used up. We INTENTIONALLY import dependents and turn away workers.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/8/2023 @ 12:57 pmDana,
That’s the man who would be “Kim” rather than “king” in your Item 6. (As much as I love Sean Connery and Michael Caine)
Appalled (cdca0a) — 12/8/2023 @ 1:04 pmTrump Indictment Watch:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/8/2023 @ 1:06 pmHunter should have changed his last name to Trump.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/8/2023 @ 1:09 pmInstead of Chinese money he could have received Arab oil money.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/8/2023 @ 1:10 pm#9 shots fired at synagogue in albany ny thursday. Now their using guns! It will get worse.
asset (425c6f) — 12/8/2023 @ 1:17 pmwhen mr trump gets his rightful mulligan and ascends to power once more, all of those illegal squatters and their squatter children who pretend to be AMERICANS will find themselves waiting for deportation in the relocation camps. that will be a good day to be a white AMERICAN, and a friend of mr trump.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/8/2023 @ 1:20 pm@19 Huey long thought that too. Roosevelt saved america in 1932 from communist revolution and civil war. Folks were storing food in jars in kansas and Iowa for when the communist revolution came as the left was opening up food warehouses to distribute food to the hungry. Read a social history of the machine gun it goes into the general strikes going on and shows the mother jones was a person not just a magazine!
asset (425c6f) — 12/8/2023 @ 1:58 pmRIP actor Ryan O’Neal (82). Best known for his roles in What’s Up Doc?, Paper Moon, and Love Story, he played an unconvincing getaway driver in The Driver.
Rip Murdock (5ad73d) — 12/8/2023 @ 2:39 pmThe Tree of Life Synagogue massacre was worse; 11 killed and 6 wounded.
Rip Murdock (5ad73d) — 12/8/2023 @ 2:44 pmNo one was killed or injured in Albany.
Rip Murdock (5ad73d) — 12/8/2023 @ 2:46 pmNo one was killed or injured in Albany.
But guns!
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/8/2023 @ 2:54 pm@19 Huey long thought that too. Roosevelt saved america in 1932 from communist revolution and civil war.
Actually, it was Dr Carl Weiss that saved America. And not a single statue of him anywhere.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/8/2023 @ 2:55 pmPutin’s sends a wet kiss and big spasibo to House Republicans (and flip-floppers like Lindsey Graham) for refusing to pass a deal on military aid to Ukraine. My party isn’t just a cult (well, 60% of it is), they’re on the side of evil and war crimes. Well done. Reagan is spinning in his grave, at high RPMs.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 12/8/2023 @ 4:10 pmAnother “prohibited person” gets hold of a gun. How can that happen?
/s
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/8/2023 @ 4:53 pmPutin’s sends a wet kiss and big spasibo to House Republicans (and flip-floppers like Lindsey Graham) for refusing to pass a deal on military aid to Ukraine.
Unreliable allies are worse than enemies. But the pathology of the Trump Party goes beyond that. They have no vision, no values, only the peeves of an orange baboon.
nk (c21586) — 12/8/2023 @ 5:03 pmhttps://twitter.com/ImMeme0/status/1732026636000747772
Virulent racist Henry Rodgers tells all black people they have no humanity for the simple reason that they are black.
He’s just one step short of calling for their extermination.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 12/8/2023 @ 5:23 pm@25 Lindsey Graham: “Everybody behind me will vote to aid Ukraine if we can get the border right.”. It was Biden who linked border chaos to Ukraine aid. He thought Republicans would roll over by simply throwing more money at his border mess. He didn’t figure that Republicans actually wanted to fix the problem he created. Sucks for him and our territorial integrity, not just Ukraine’s. Maybe he should stop putting our security last.
lloyd (fff737) — 12/8/2023 @ 5:28 pmWell, lloyd, not to burden you with my problems, but today I went to the mall to pick up a couple of Christmas gifts for my family. One from Nordstrom’s and one from the Apple store.
Nordstrom’s did not have what I wanted, so did I say “The heck with it, I am not buying the Apple store gift, either, until Nordstom’s gets me what I want”?
Of course not. I bought what I was after from the Apple store and when I got home I ordered what I wanted from Nordstrom’s online.
That’s how adults get things done.
Preventing Russia from taking over Ukraine is important to America. Maybe not as important as border security, I will not argue that, but important. Those dipwiddles should be looking at how to get both things done, instead of holding each one hostage for the other.
nk (c21586) — 12/8/2023 @ 5:51 pmI know that “Congress has the power of the purse” is an aphorism. But power not used wisely is dangerous to the user. Like pulling the pin on a hand grenade and not throwing it.
nk (c21586) — 12/8/2023 @ 5:54 pmBiden linked it, the GOP held it hostage.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 12/8/2023 @ 5:55 pmGranted, Israel is also worthy of aid, but they don’t have the same sense of urgency as Ukraine, and they’re not a military disadvantage as Ukraine is, far from it.
But there is a common link between Israel and Ukraine, and it’s Iran, i.e., the theocratic terrorist state that is supporting the Russian terrorist state and is supporting the the Hamas terrorist organization. Our funding Israel-Ukraine doesn’t just put Russia and Hamas on their heels, it puts us on a more aggressive footing with Iran, which is long overdue, and which my party is delaying.
More from McFaul, former US Ambassador to Russia.
It’s not like this bill just showed up last week. This last-minute hijinx blew it up and delayed it into 2024, which is a blow to our longtime Ukrainian friends because time is of the essence.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 12/8/2023 @ 6:09 pmBiden’s hostage means as much to him as the kidnapped Israeli baby or grandmother means to Hamas. He can’t even do hostage taking right.
On that note, even though it is effectively surrounded by a large impenetrable moat Britain has its own very serious problem with migrants and a problem with a party that doesn’t give a damn. The Conservatives summarized their problem and ours in one succinct tweet. Most of their migrants transit through France, which no one in their right mind thinks is a country to flee from to gain asylum in the UK. None of it ever had to do with persecution and asylum, either here or there. Labour and the Democrats have known this for years. Sunak is rolling over, but fortunately Republicans aren’t. Britain has a worthy successor to the Iron Lady in Suella Braverman.
lloyd (fff737) — 12/8/2023 @ 6:33 pmbig spasibo to House Republicans (and flip-floppers like Lindsey Graham) for refusing to pass a deal on military aid to Ukraine.
How about a big hug from Maduro to the Democrats for allowing his continued invasion of Texas.
Just as reasonable. The issue here is that Biden is willing to let Ukraine rot in order to continue open borders. If he really cared about Ukraine, he’d find some way to jut a deal for what the party in control of the House wants.
I expect that he’ll try to send Ukraine the money anyway and some people here will carry his water.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/8/2023 @ 6:33 pm@32: This is probably the worst analogy in the history of analogies. Assuming, of course, that you intended it to make sense.
It’s more like this: I want an iPad from the Apple store. The Apple store wants some of my money. I don’t want to give them any of my money, so I throw a fit in the middle of the store, and scream and scream and scream.
Many onlookers say that the Apple store people are just mean and they should give me the damn iPad.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/8/2023 @ 6:37 pmThat’s how adults get things done.
Preventing Russia from taking over Ukraine is important to America. Maybe not as important as border security, I will not argue that, but important.
This is how children throw tantrums.
Please tell me how the Biden folks will give up on the border mess (that they actually like), for free, when they won’t do it now in exchange for something they really want.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/8/2023 @ 6:41 pmMaduro isn’t sending Venezuelans to the US, Kevin (nice mischaracterization), he’s driving them out of Venezuela because of his failed socialist experiment.
I remember a time when Fidel drove his fellow Cubans off his island prison because of his failed communist experiment, and the US took them in (under Reagan even), and now these Cubans have grown up and become Republicans who, ironically, helped a populist xenophobe like Trump win. Strange times.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 12/8/2023 @ 6:50 pm@32: This is probably the worst analogy in the history of analogies. Assuming, of course, that you intended it to make sense.
Only to those who view the future of America, and of Western civilization, as a partisan tiff for the next year or so, and have no vision for what they have stood for in history, stand for now, and what they must continue to be for many generations to come.
nk (c21586) — 12/8/2023 @ 7:01 pmMaduro isn’t sending Venezuelans to the US, Kevin (nice mischaracterization), he’s driving them out of Venezuela because of his failed socialist experiment.
And Putin isn’t backing the Republicans, either. As I said, it was about as fair.
Why is it a bridge too far to address the GOP’s issue with the Southern border at the same time. It could be win-win, but Biden wants lose-lose.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/8/2023 @ 7:09 pmOnly to those who view the future of America, and of Western civilization, as a partisan tiff for the next year or so, and have no vision for what they have stood for in history, stand for now, and what they must continue to be for many generations to come.
So, in your opinion not a single GOP Senator gives a crap about American values?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/8/2023 @ 7:10 pmNot even Mitt Romney?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/8/2023 @ 7:11 pmSince the left wants the destruction of America, you might want to turn your anger towards them.
And if you want to talk about history, they don’t care. That’s just what a bunch of racist, white guys did.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 12/8/2023 @ 7:12 pmWhy is it partisan to want unfettered “immigration” to stop, but NOT partisan to want it to continue?
And why is it so important to continue the inflow that Biden will throw Ukraine under the bus to accomplish it?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/8/2023 @ 7:13 pmSo, in your opinion not a single GOP Senator gives a crap about American values?
I have never been to Nacogdoches.
nk (c21586) — 12/8/2023 @ 7:17 pmhttps://legalinsurrection.com/2023/12/cair-executive-director-i-was-happy-to-see-hamas-terror-attack-on-israel-on-october-7/
Just a reminder that CAIR was an unindicted co-conspirator for the 9/11 attacks on America.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 12/8/2023 @ 7:19 pmSuspended USCIS asylum officer and anti-Semite Hamas supporter Nejwa Ali isn’t wasting any of her taxpayer paid vacation time. Mayorkas and Biden keep signing her paycheck stubs. It’s the intersectionality of immigration and terrorism, incompetence and malevolence.
lloyd (fff737) — 12/8/2023 @ 7:37 pmKevin, Putin is thrilled that a number of House Republicans–and now Senate Republicans–are opposing military aid to the country he’s trying to conquer and absorb.
You and I know that if Vlad’s friend Donald tries to work his 24-hour peace deal (in the off chance the Orange Psychopath is elected), it really means that he’ll strong-arm Zelenskyy into making massive territorial concessions for the sake of a phony short-lived “peace”, and the Trumpist claque will go right along, in part because if Biden is for it then Trump & Co. are agin it. That, and there’s a disturbing strain of xenophobia running through the Right Wing these days.
We–my GOP–are the baddies here.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 12/8/2023 @ 7:51 pmPutin is thrilled that Biden and the left consider supporting the invasion of America to be more important than stopping Putin from toppling Ukraine.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 12/8/2023 @ 7:57 pmI’m saying it’s a bridge too late, for the GOP to pull this last-minute poison pill. Like I said, it’s not as if this proposal showed up just a week ago.
If this was a way to leverage more border concessions from Biden, it was a lousy way to do it, because the Ukrainians have the will but we’re denying the means to prevail over a terrorist state, because of a domestic squabble that’s been simmering for decades.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 12/8/2023 @ 7:59 pmThere’s the problem right there, that the intolerant Right Wing calls the southern border problem an “invasion”.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 12/8/2023 @ 8:01 pmWe are the baddies. Three-fifths of my party is in the bag for the Chief Baddie.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 12/8/2023 @ 8:04 pm“We are the baddies. Three-fifths of my party is in the bag for the Chief Baddie.”
The “baddies” are offering Ukraine aid AND border security. The “good guys” won’t go along because they only want one, so we get neither. That sums it up.
The fact that border security is a “concession” for Biden puts it in boldface.
lloyd (211000) — 12/8/2023 @ 8:13 pmIn this I agree with Boot…
I’m not ashamed to be an American, but I am ashamed about this GOP that I no longer recognize, and which I may not have recognized in 1941.
What is conservative about a party that worships a mentally ill con man? What is conservative about likening an actual invasion involving an actual army to a shoddily managed border policy? I seriously doubt we’d have been in this current breakdown situation without the Chief Baddie’s influence and bullying.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 12/8/2023 @ 9:04 pmPleasant update to item two:
They’ve also apparently decided to close for a couple of days, so perhaps the problem with obnoxious staff runs a lot more deeply than previously realized.
JVW (3d0504) — 12/8/2023 @ 9:19 pmHostages die in botched IDF rescue attempt. Netanyahu wont tell hostage families what happened to their love ones in botched attempt ;but that wont get him out of it!
asset (79dae8) — 12/8/2023 @ 10:47 pmKevin, Putin is thrilled that a number of House Republicans–and now Senate Republicans–are opposing military aid to the country he’s trying to conquer and absorb.
OK, so give up with the Putin-tossing and answer this:
Why is it so important to continue to allow unfettered “immigration” that Biden is willing to cut off aid to Ukraine. The GOP has NOT said they won’t do it, they just have something they want more.
Why is Biden risking Ukraine over something that will cost him the election and put Trump in power?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/8/2023 @ 10:49 pmI’m saying it’s a bridge too late, for the GOP to pull this last-minute poison pill. Like I said, it’s not as if this proposal showed up just a week ago.
But they’ve just discovered that Ukraine needs more money?! This dog won’t hunt.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/8/2023 @ 10:51 pmAnd why is it a poison pill? You still have not defended Biden’s intransigence.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/8/2023 @ 10:51 pmThere’s the problem right there, that the intolerant Right Wing calls the southern border problem an “invasion”.
I am not the “intolerant Right Wing” and I consider it an invasion. Aided and abetted by Joseph Biden. You have gone so far around the anti-Trump curve that you are now viewing moderate Republicans as the “far right.”
Mitt Romney voted against the Ukraine aid, too. Is he a Trumpie now? Or are you just blind?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/8/2023 @ 10:55 pmAKA John McEnroe’s father-in-law.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 12/8/2023 @ 11:12 pmIn 2016 democrat party lost white voters to trump and republicans. In 2004 kerry lost latinx vote to dubya at behest of unions and have not made that mistake again! In 2018 AOC wins thanks to latinx. Immigrants are now the democratic base for the future. Citizenship them up and away we go! The people who whine don’t vote democrat and the people who do vote democrat don’t care.
asset (79dae8) — 12/8/2023 @ 11:22 pmIt isn’t an invasion. There isn’t any foreign government or military leader involved. They are not trying to push us out or take our land. They are not trying to remove our government or make systemic changes and current estimates are below those of the mid 2000s.
It’s been the same d@mn problem for 50 years and you want them to solve it in 2 weeks as part of a foreign aid bill when the House can’t even commit to the possibility of passing anything that might pass the Senate?
Nic (896fdf) — 12/9/2023 @ 12:00 amIt’s been the same d@mn problem for 50 years and you want them to solve it in 2 weeks as part of a foreign aid bill when the House can’t even commit to the possibility of passing anything that might pass the Senate?
The flip side of your argument is that the Democrats will always have a reason for why it’s not the right time to address illegal immigration. I’m always a bad prognosticator on how these things end up, but having acknowledged that, I don’t think the GOP will look so bad in independents’ eyes if they demand action at the border in return for Ukraine funding. As Kevin M posits, a lot of voters are going to wonder what Joe Biden and Co. have against securing the borders. Especially since his own FBI director is out there talking about how the threat of terrorism in the U.S. is the highest that it has been in years.
JVW (e9ad69) — 12/9/2023 @ 12:10 amOur host weighs in.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 12/9/2023 @ 12:32 amWe made the same points to republicans and they agreed with us on social security and medicare ;but told us I agree but I have to vote against every democrat on the ballot over gun rights! Democrats and independents even some moderate republicans say exactly the same thing about abortion! Your side ignored the issue in both 2022 and 2023 elections and didn’t work. In many states swing states like az abortion will be on the ballot. Immigration, crime and inflation along with the social dog whistles like transgenders will be trumped by abortion and now trump’s crazyness. you have no answer for abortion so you ignore it. What is your answer to vote democrat or use a coat hanger?
asset (79dae8) — 12/9/2023 @ 2:45 amYeah, what leaders were part of the barbarian tribes that led to the fall of Rome?
And yes, the government of Mexico and other nations are directing people to America and breaking the law by not holding them in the first “safe” nation as required when requesting asylum.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 12/9/2023 @ 5:30 amThe left promised to stop illegal immigration when they agreed to amnesty with Reagan. They’ve broken every promise ever since.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 12/9/2023 @ 5:31 amAfter a customer used the bathroom and wished to return to document the graffiti, they were initially denied access and then allowed to enter the bathroom to film the graffiti.
So she was not wetting her panties because she needed to pee; she ws wetting her panties because now she had something to put on Tik Tok.
And the stupid employees gave her more fodder with their antisemitic comments, but Mensa geniuses do not work at those kind of places.
And we got fooled again by tabloid crap on the internet.
nk (c21586) — 12/9/2023 @ 5:55 amI think the Democrats know they are weak on border security. That isn’t a mystery. They know they have to do more before next fall to blunt that vulnerability. But they also know that Ukraine funding is popular.
It would seem like we are set up for a deal. What minimally do both sides want that can get through both houses? The GOP still wants this as an election issue. Democrats want some pathway to legalization or citizenship. They also want humane treatment for people looking for a better life. The GOP won’t support anything that looks like amnesty. Progress requires some sort of adult compromise. It’s not clear that our current political environment supports that.
AJ_Liberty (d399e4) — 12/9/2023 @ 6:11 amNic (896fdf) — 12/9/2023 @ 12:00 am
Well said, Nic.
felipe (79693d) — 12/9/2023 @ 6:13 amNJRob (eb56c3) — 12/9/2023 @ 5:30 am
We, absolutely, must secure our borders against illegal immigration because, while not led, the resulting harm could be similar to a led invasion. Why does the rest of the world have borders and seek to secure them?
felipe (79693d) — 12/9/2023 @ 6:21 amThis Ramirez cartoon picturing the Loser in his den gave me some grim enjoyment.
Enjoyment, because it is good to see the truth depicted, however unpleasant, when so many others are refusing to face simple facts.
Jim Miller (99a2be) — 12/9/2023 @ 6:22 amI may be only one Independent, but you have it exactly right, JVW.
felipe (79693d) — 12/9/2023 @ 6:24 amHa! Sadly, though, yes they do. Like Ptolemy, the possession of a great intellect is no guarantee against being wrong.
felipe (79693d) — 12/9/2023 @ 6:31 amOr poor. Or [fill this in].
felipe (79693d) — 12/9/2023 @ 6:32 amYeah, what leaders were part of the barbarian tribes that led to the fall of Rome?
If only Stilicho had had bone spurs.
nk (c21586) — 12/9/2023 @ 6:39 amunfettered immigration
Pull the other one. Since Eisenhower’s Operation Wetback, it has been the Republican lapdogs of rich jerkoffs who have stymied efforts to cut off cheap, illegal labor, and to prevent illegals from becoming legal and coming out of the shadows because that would make them no longer cheap.
These particular whining GOP puppies now in Congress don’t even have that much of a rationale. Basically ineffectual and marginalized, not content with their $1 million per year sinecures and perks, they want to flex a little muscle and make sure that the morons who elected them to their phony-baloney jobs in the first place vote for them again.
nk (c21586) — 12/9/2023 @ 6:50 am$1 million *plus* Do you know they give themselves free cars?
nk (c21586) — 12/9/2023 @ 6:54 am@65 “It’s been the same d@mn problem for 50 years and you want them to solve it in 2 weeks as part of a foreign aid bill when the House can’t even commit to the possibility of passing anything that might pass the Senate?”
Ukraine-Russia has been the same d@mn problem for 200+ years. So what?
We didn’t have unworkable asylum rules until recently. Trump had effective Remain in Mexico and prop 42 policies just a few years ago, which Biden tossed. We didn’t have Democrat run cities begging for migrant relief until this administration. We didn’t have unaccompanied minors, babies and toddlers fending on their own as smugglers toss them over the border. We didn’t have taxpayer funded charter flights routinely delivering lawbreakers to their destinations. We didn’t have border patrol acting as baby sitters rather than doing their job. We didn’t have calls to fingerprint migrant kids to address sex trafficking. We didn’t have a massive fentanyl problem. These are all new developments, from the past few years.
The border is not the same d@mn problem it’s been. What’s been the same the past 50 years is Democrat opposition to doing anything about it. And, they’re so determined to not do anything about it they’ll stop Ukraine aid.
lloyd (c4154f) — 12/9/2023 @ 7:09 amI reject the premise, that it’s “unfettered”, which akin to the false trope that socialists use when they talk about “unfettered capitalism”.
I agree that fundamental and comprehensive immigration reform is necessary, but throwing in a major policy-changing immigration bill that should appropriately take months to negotiate, not a few weeks, all the while denying Ukrainians the weapons they need to stop Putin’s terrorist missile/artillery attacks, this is not good faith, particularly since the last time we actually passed such legislation was when Rob didn’t even have pubic hair.
What the GOP is doing is exactly what Putin wants. Why is my party catering to a hostile expansionist imperialist power like Russia? Why are we Republicans tacitly accepting his form of terrorism yet so outraged about Hamas terrorism? Israel lost 1,200-1,300 since 10/7, Ukraine has lost hundreds of thousands in 22 months from this illegal unprovoked invasion.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 12/9/2023 @ 7:38 amOne, I won’t “give up with the Putin-tossing”. He and Xi are our two largest geopolitical foes and our foreign policy shouldn’t be about helping him succeed in his very real, very physical invasion. He either needs to lose and GTFO or, at worst for us, be stuck in an unwinnable territory-ceding quagmire.
Two, the top definition of invasion in every dictionary is “an act or instance of invading or entering as an enemy, especially by an army”, so I’ll take your description of the southern border as an “invasion” as unhelpful hyperbole.
Three, regarding your question about Biden’s foreign policy on Ukraine-Israel, why have so many Republicans rejected a foreign policy that Reagan built? Regarding the southern border, this is a funding bill, not landmark legislation, which is why I called it a poison pill. Trump had GOP majorities in both houses and he couldn’t get a deal done. I support a lot more money for the southern border and lot more enforcement. But this is a divided government and that means that anything substantial will take time, and time is not on the Ukrainians’ side with their dwindling supplies.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 12/9/2023 @ 8:02 amRelated:
Rip Murdock (5ad73d) — 12/9/2023 @ 8:04 amPolling has consistently shown declining support (if not outright opposition) for aid to Ukraine among Republican voters,, so the House and Senate Republicans are using this standoff as an opportunity to achieve its end.
Rip Murdock (5ad73d) — 12/9/2023 @ 8:11 amThe statement in italics in post 85 should not have been blockquoted.
Rip Murdock (5ad73d) — 12/9/2023 @ 8:13 amUS life expectancy began falling in 2014, because:
Two presidents, Obama and the Loser, failed to act effectively against the opiod disaster, and President Biden is failing.
And so have Congresses controlled by both parties.
Jim Miller (99a2be) — 12/9/2023 @ 8:18 amIt isn’t an invasion. There isn’t any foreign government or military leader involved. They are not trying to push us out or take our land. They are not trying to remove our government or make systemic changes and current estimates are below those of the mid 2000s.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/invasion
Definition 2 works for me.
As far as “taking over land” roughly half of the city of Los Angeles is now Spanish-speaking, up from about 20% in 1980. The influx has had an impact on rents, traffic and homelessness, and control much of the city’s politics. Hispanics now constitute the largest ethnic group in California.
Are they imposing control by military force, no. But that’s a pretty cramped definition of “imposing control.”
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/9/2023 @ 8:29 am#85 “We didn’t have a massive fentanyl problem. These are all new developments, from the past few years.”
Here are some numbers:
There is enough blame to go around, Obama, the Loser, the Congresses during this period, and many state and local governments.
Jim Miller (99a2be) — 12/9/2023 @ 8:30 amCorrection: #82 rather than #85 in previous comment.
Jim Miller (99a2be) — 12/9/2023 @ 8:32 amNow, I do favor immigration, and rather more than the current law anticipates (although it appears to allow far more than anticipated, given the blind eyes involved).
But unlimited immigration is a problem, and given the way that legal immigration has effectively stopped due to a lack of manpower, this crap is intolerable.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/9/2023 @ 8:33 amThe problems of 44 million Ukrainians don’t amount to a hill of beans in this crazy, mixed-up world. But at least we will have Covfefe.
I must be having a senior moment trying to talk about American values and western civilization in the same breath with the Party of Trump. Like reading the Torah at the Nuremberg rally.
nk (c21586) — 12/9/2023 @ 8:36 amIt’s been the same d@mn problem for 50 years and you want them to solve it in 2 weeks as part of a foreign aid bill when the House can’t even commit to the possibility of passing anything that might pass the Senate?
No, and that’s not what is being asked. What is being asked is that the loopholes in refugee rules that Biden has manufactured, and exploits, be closed. Just moving back to “remain in Mexico”, rather than being paroled into the USA with a work permit, is enough.
Or do you really believe that all these people are flooding in because their home governments want to kill them, and not, say, because our streets are paved with gold? Allowing them in if they say some magic words, that they are coached to say, is at best disrespectful. Biden’s “solution”, to give Immigration more money to process them in faster, is extremely disrespectful. And disingenuous.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/9/2023 @ 8:38 amHomelessness and open borders are not unrelated. In the past, countries have had shantytowns. Now we just spend enormous sums to prevent that, and wring our hands about how unexpected this all is.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/9/2023 @ 8:41 amI must be having a senior moment trying to talk about American values and western civilization in the same breath with the Party of Trump. Like reading the Torah at the Nuremberg rally.
This is offensive. You are calling people here Nazis (and/or Trumpists) because they don’t agree with you.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/9/2023 @ 8:42 amPolling has consistently shown declining support (if not outright opposition) for aid to Ukraine among Republican voters,, so the House and Senate Republicans are using this standoff as an opportunity to achieve its end.
All Bien has to do is accept a change in refugee processing and he can have all the Ukraine money he asks for. Is it a “holdup”? Sure. But for Biden to act like, after a lifetime in politics, that a holdup is beyond the pale is risible.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/9/2023 @ 8:44 amPaul Montagu (d52d7d) — 12/9/2023 @ 8:02 am
Not once have you discussed why Biden is risking the VERY important aid to Ukraine over some dialing back of the out-of-control refugee policy.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/9/2023 @ 8:47 amPaul Montagu (d52d7d) — 12/9/2023 @ 8:02 am
“Invasion” has definitions other than “military force.” Even the top definition relegates that to “especially”, allowing for non-military definitions. And the second definition is far move inclusive.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/9/2023 @ 8:48 amnk,
You have gone so far over the edge here, that it’s really uninteresting to read your posts. Didn’t use to be the case.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/9/2023 @ 8:49 amA lot of that going around, Kevin.
nk (c21586) — 12/9/2023 @ 9:13 amYou didn’t like the answer, Kevin, which is a you problem, not a me problem.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 12/9/2023 @ 9:19 amI thought pairing Ukraine aid with Israel and Taiwan was a sure thing?
Rip Murdock (5ad73d) — 12/9/2023 @ 9:42 amBeing called a “Nazi” is risible, but why is “Trumpist” when 60% of Republican voters support him? Isn’t that close to a consensus?
Rip Murdock (5ad73d) — 12/9/2023 @ 9:48 amYou didn’t like the answer, Kevin, which is a you problem, not a me problem.
You never answered, which I admit I didn’t like. You just said ”
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/9/2023 @ 9:59 amPutin” and “not an invasion” but nowhere did you say that continuing the problem on the southern border is worth giving up Ukraine, which is the Biden position.
Being called a “Nazi” is risible, but why is “Trumpist” when 60% of Republican voters support him? Isn’t that close to a consensus?
Because I am quite clearly not one, so lumping me (or Romney or McConnell) in with people like Vivek and MTG is indeed risible.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/9/2023 @ 10:02 amI thought pairing Ukraine aid with Israel and Taiwan was a sure thing?
Well it is, but I thought that “protecting the US border” would be too.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/9/2023 @ 10:03 amThis isn’t just the whackos like MTG. This is reasonable centrists like Mitt Romney voting to block Ukraine funding until Biden gives up his mass immigration push.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/9/2023 @ 10:33 amThe cloture vote failed, 49-51, with EVERY GOP Senator (plus Bernie) voting no (Schumer changed his vote to no to allow reconsideration).
The GOP only needed 41 votes — they did not HAVE to present a united front, but they did. Democrats talk about how Putin is smiling, rather than deal with the GOP concerns.
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4345952-ukraine-israel-funding-senate-republicans/
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/9/2023 @ 10:38 amIt all makes me pretty much cynical
It’s hard to say that Biden has done nothing: The FY23 government funding package that President Biden signed into law provided Border Patrol with $7.153 billion — a 17 percent increase from the year before. Additionally, the funding package provided $65 million for 300 new Border Patrol agents, $60 million for 125 new personnel at points of entry; and $230 million for technology like autonomous surveillance towers. Is upping the amount of money here doing nothing or wanting open borders?
The reality too is that it was the Trump administration that tightened sanctions on Cuba, Venezuela, and Nicaragua, exacerbating the macroeconomic crises that have led hundreds of thousands to flee and arrive at the southern border. We don’t need forever aid to central and south america, but throwing money at a beautiful wall misses the mark as well.
The GOP cut the number of legal pathways to immigration (49% by 2021), even the most highly skilled workers. This shouldn’t excuse coming illegal but we do have a macroeconomic pull that we get distracted from addressing with a hyperfocus on walls. Maybe I missed it, but I don’t recall massive fines against companies who used illegals being prominent during Trump’s term. A lot of this is bad theater.
90% of fentanyl is brought into the country by Americans through legal points of entry. Again, it doesn’t excuse Mexico for its role, but it does seem like we are focusing on 1% of the problem all of the time.
Border security should be decoupled from Ukraine. Putin is applauding the squeeze on Ukraine. Who would have thought the GOP would become Putin’s not-so-secret weapon?
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 12/9/2023 @ 11:29 amCasey DeSantis encourages election fraud:
Uhhh…no:
Casey DeSantis made the comments while sitting next to her husband, and he failed to correct her. Who’s running the campaign?
Rip Murdock (5ad73d) — 12/9/2023 @ 11:42 am@JVW@66 and that might be true, they might never want to address it but if they don’t one of three things will happen. 1. It never gets bad enough that there are consequences in not addressing it. 2. The Rs end up with enough majority at some point to address it. 3. It gets bad enough that Ds start losing seats over the issue.
The thing is, I don’t think the Rs really want to address it either. There’ve been plenty of times that they could and didn’t. I think this is all basically grandstanding.
@NJRob@69 You have heard of Attila the Hun, yes?
@lloyd@82 We aren’t trying to solve Ukraine v Russia, Ukraine is, we are just supporting them in their efforts. We have had a number of bad or ineffective policies over time that had similar or different bad results and none of them have solved the problem, including Trump’s set of them. There wasn’t a significant change in the number in the US under Trump either. It is the same d@mn problem.
@Kevin Here’s where Biden was willing to go.
Nic (896fdf) — 12/9/2023 @ 11:59 amHere’s what the House republicans wanted in order to commit to passing it. I don’t know that the Ds were the ones being unreasonable on the issue.
2024 Iowa Republican Presidential Caucus RCP Polling Averages:
DeSantis: -29 behind Trump
Haley: -32
Based on the current polls, Trump, DeSantis, and Haley will win the majority, if not all, of the delegates.
Days until Iowa caucuses: 37
Rip Murdock (5ad73d) — 12/9/2023 @ 12:05 pmFrom The Hill: “Biden said he’s asked Congress for billions of dollars in funding for additional border agents, more immigration judges and more asylum officers. He did not detail what changes he would support in border policy. The White House has denied it considered offering permanent changes to asylum laws in exchange for support for Ukraine aid, an idea that caused instant backlash among immigration advocates.”
Billions more for judges and asylum officers isn’t to stem the tide. It’s to clear the backlog so that more can come through. More money for border agents is only because they’ve run out of baby sitters. Meaningful reform is going to come with asylum rules changes, and Biden would have Ukraine aid cut off before he’d touch any of that.
Republicans have approved well more than $100billion of Ukraine aid to this point. In return for that, Biden and the Democrats have done nothing at the border except make it worse. And, they’ve made it clear that making our nation’s border security better is a “concession” on their part. Tells you everything about their warped mentality.
lloyd (0833c2) — 12/9/2023 @ 12:07 pmEven if the Administration accepted all of the Republican border demands, they would find other reasons to block aid to Ukraine. The Republican Party In Washington is reflecting its base and just doesn’t support aid for Ukraine (or Israel, as evidenced by tying aid to the poison pill of reductions to IRS funding.) Like Trump, they are practicing transactional politics.
Rip Murdock (5ad73d) — 12/9/2023 @ 12:17 pm@112 “There wasn’t a significant change in the number in the US under Trump either. It is the same d@mn problem.“
You didn’t include any hard data to back that up, because the data doesn’t support you. There were 1.6 million migrant encounters in 2021, 2.5 million so far in 2023. In 2019 there were just over 400,000, and if you want to dismiss that as Covid related, it was just over 800,000 in 2018. This wasn’t just happenstance. Trump had actual policies, Remain in Mexico and Title 42, that were effective. He also appointed judges who did not twist the law to stymie enforcement.
But, I agree it’s the same d@mn problem: Democrats who don’t want to fix the issue. Been a problem for decades.
lloyd (0833c2) — 12/9/2023 @ 12:21 pmBreaking:
Happy days are here again……..
Rip Murdock (5ad73d) — 12/9/2023 @ 12:22 pmhttps://thefederalist.com/2023/12/06/report-u-s-sets-record-for-most-single-day-border-apprehensions/
NJRob (51fb0c) — 12/9/2023 @ 12:26 pm@lloyd@116 Illegal immigrants in the US have been generally between 10 and 11.5 million over the last 15 or so years.
In the article you linked, the increased encounters were mostly due to repeat encounters with people because we were chucking people back and they were trying again, rather than people who actually made it into the country for asylum purposes.
Nic (896fdf) — 12/9/2023 @ 12:36 pmIn a column titled “Smart Politics, for Once”, Allahnick had this to say about Ukraine and the border:
https://thedispatch.com/newsletter/boilingfrogs/smart-politics-for-once/
norcal (038d55) — 12/9/2023 @ 12:42 pm@119 I don’t think you read your link.
“The new estimates do not reflect changes that have occurred since apprehensions and expulsions of migrants along the U.S.-Mexico border started increasing in March 2021. Migrant encounters at the border have since reached historic highs.”
Look, don’t trust me. Trust what your Democrat mayors and governors have been saying.
lloyd (0833c2) — 12/9/2023 @ 12:44 pmJim Miller (99a2be) — 12/9/2023 @ 6:22 am
I loved that Ramirez cartoon, Jim, right down to the cascading red tie. It took me a moment to understand the wall mounts, but then I loved them, too. Ramirez is quite talented.
I fear that political cartoons are an underappreciated art form these days.
norcal (038d55) — 12/9/2023 @ 12:46 pm@lloyd@121 From the article you linked, that migrant encounters at the border were not increased individual encounters, they were repeat encounters from people we chucked out. The difficulty with sending illegal immigrants to random places is that they don’t currently have a system in place to process or house them, it was obviously just a publicity stunt, since Texas sent them to CA once, but stopped when he realized that CA does have the capacity to handle his idiot stunting and just rolled it’s eyes at him and kept moving. Katie Hobbs is asking for a reopening of a border crossing.
Nic (896fdf) — 12/9/2023 @ 1:03 pm@70 That was corporate establishment democrats and their labor union allies not the left.
asset (a3549c) — 12/9/2023 @ 1:25 pm@123 And, why was the border crossing closed? It was in the link, but I’ll help: “Customs and Border Protection shuttered the port of entry on Monday to redirect the staff there to help the Border Patrol
process the flood of migrants who are asking for asylum.”
There’s also Hochul and Pritzker and the Democrat mayor of El Paso.
Dismiss it all you like.
lloyd (ad8113) — 12/9/2023 @ 1:25 pm@74 “WE”?
asset (a3549c) — 12/9/2023 @ 1:27 pmKevin McCarthy’s Next Gig?
Rip Murdock (5ad73d) — 12/9/2023 @ 1:36 pmIt beats moving back to Bakersfield.
Rip Murdock (5ad73d) — 12/9/2023 @ 1:38 pmDesatan on nbc interview says ballot measures on protecting abortion rights are a big problem for anti-abortionists. They have to stop voters from being able to vote on abortion measures! Biden and corporate establishment democrats say shame on you! Democrats need to run somebody for president who tells rethugs you try and stop people from voting we will give you a post natal abortion!
asset (a3549c) — 12/9/2023 @ 1:39 pmLiz Magill has resigned the presidency of the University of Pennsylvania and will return to being a professor at the law school. Good Heavens, I had no idea that she was a law professor. It makes her convoluted testimony look even more puzzling.
JVW (1ad43e) — 12/9/2023 @ 1:49 pmMy guess is that if Supreme Court takes up any of these cases they will punt and declare it a “political question.”
Rip Murdock (9a3b4c) — 12/9/2023 @ 1:49 pmI’m glad Ms. Magill is out. It’s her university and countless others that contributed to this awful statistic and gave permission to extremists to hate Jews.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 12/9/2023 @ 1:56 pmBring out the 🍿 :
Rip Murdock (9a3b4c) — 12/9/2023 @ 2:05 pmIt sounds like Liz Magill was going to be booted had she not resigned, and I’m sure she read the tea leaves.
JVW (1ad43e) — 12/9/2023 @ 2:06 pm@lloyd@125 It isn’t dismissal that there is a problem, it just isn’t a new problem. It’s the same problem. If it’s going to get better, it isn’t going to be in a two week negotiation as part of a foreign aid bill. It also isn’t going to be a my way or the highway bill like HR 2 that the House was demanding. And ATM I don’t think there’s an actual will to fix it, I think it’s all grandstanding. Rs have had chance in the past to fix it with comprehensive plans. Ds have had chances in the past to fix it with comprehensive plans. Rs and Ds together have had chances in the past to fix it with comprehensive plans. It never gets fixed. I don’t think enough people actually want it to get fixed, regardless of the letter after their names.
Nic (896fdf) — 12/9/2023 @ 2:11 pmI can, lawyers are always making hairsplitting arguments defending their clients.
Rip Murdock (9a3b4c) — 12/9/2023 @ 2:11 pmThat McCarthy, Cheney and others choose to stay in DC rather than move back to their districts is indicative of how addicted people get to the DC world and how disconnected they have become from the people they claimed to represent. I get it. I don’t expect AOC to retire to her district when her career tops out either
steveg (2e32cd) — 12/9/2023 @ 2:30 pmShe is not a lawyer, she is an academic. With the occupational arrogance of academics. They do not care if they persuade, they do not care if they are even understood. They speak and will not be gainsaid. Law professor will return her to her comfort level.
nk (bb1548) — 12/9/2023 @ 2:38 pmRip
steveg (2e32cd) — 12/9/2023 @ 2:43 pmI can see that too. Lots of smart people talk in circles when they know that answering definitively and succinctly could get them in trouble.
“I can’t tell them what I know, what I did, what I believe, what my intentions were, so I’ll just talk around it all”
The rules and political scheming of Congress allow people to give unresponsive answers, there are no repercussions for answering yes or no questions with a meandering filibuster
The chair of UPenn’s board of trustees has also resigned.
Rip Murdock (9a3b4c) — 12/9/2023 @ 2:47 pmQuestion: Why were there no leaders from public universities at the House hearing? The protesters at UC Berkeley, for example, were just as antisemitic as those at Harvard, MIT, and Penn.
Rip Murdock (9a3b4c) — 12/9/2023 @ 2:53 pmWell, it makes it more likely that he will plead the Fifth Amendment if he testifies before the House Oversight Committee.
Rip Murdock (9a3b4c) — 12/9/2023 @ 3:48 pmStefanik knows how to pick low-hanging fruit.
Public universities enjoy political protection. Their Boards of Trustees are political appointees as are their top administrators. Not to mention that they are state governmental institutions. Whole lot of worms in those cans.
nk (b769c8) — 12/9/2023 @ 3:49 pmEven if the Administration accepted all of the Republican border demands, they would find other reasons to block aid to Ukraine.
No, they will not. Not all of them. You are smearing some very good people here.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/9/2023 @ 4:06 pmIt’s hard to say that Biden has done nothing: The FY23 government funding package that President Biden signed into law provided Border Patrol with $7.153 billion — a 17 percent increase from the year before. Additionally, the funding package provided $65 million for 300 new Border Patrol agents, $60 million for 125 new personnel at points of entry; and $230 million for technology like autonomous surveillance towers. Is upping the amount of money here doing nothing or wanting open borders?
But this money was for increasing the speed of admission of the “refugees” not for reducing their numbers, or anything of interest to those who want the travesty mitigated.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/9/2023 @ 4:08 pmShohei Ohtani signs with Dodgers, for $700 million over 10 years.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/9/2023 @ 4:13 pmNic (896fdf) — 12/9/2023 @ 11:59 am
Nic, the GOP has been asking for these things for over a year now, and Biden ignored them. Now, he can’t. This is how things are done today in polarized Washington. Up to now all Biden has offered is more money to let the refugees enter faster.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/9/2023 @ 4:15 pmMay 15, 2023 is when that House bill was introduced. Not December 7, which is when Biden offered a little bit of it to get past the Senate vote.
In any event, getting everything that the House leadership wants isn’t going to happen, nor is it what the Senate demanded.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/9/2023 @ 4:18 pm@Kevin@147 The GOP has been having a screaming fit for over a year, not sitting down to serious negotiations. And the house GOP is still having a screaming fit. Yes, HR2 was offered in May, however the terms of it are what Johnson said he wanted from the Senate GOP for maybe passing the aid bill.
Nic (896fdf) — 12/9/2023 @ 4:34 pm@149 “The GOP has been having a screaming fit for over a year, not sitting down to serious negotiations.”
What specifically don’t you like about HR2, other than it was cooked up in the midst of a screaming fit?
lloyd (75b525) — 12/9/2023 @ 5:01 pmhttps://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/washington-secrets/record-50m-immigrants-in-us-spiked-by-illegal-surge-under-biden
And thats only what the left acknowledges.
And if you claim legal immigration isn’t high enough, then many more must be illegal.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 12/9/2023 @ 5:16 pmI am speaking of House and Senate Republicans, not anyone here.
Rip Murdock (9a3b4c) — 12/9/2023 @ 5:43 pmFIFY. Hostage deaths, whatever the circumstances, are the responsibility of Hamas.
Rip Murdock (9a3b4c) — 12/9/2023 @ 5:52 pm@lloyd@150
Sec 102- A border wall all along the US Mexico border is unnecessary, expensive, not very functional in it’s current design, and in places probably illegal, plus it cuts off water to farmers and would have to go across a reservation, which it may not be allowed to do. It would also likely imminent domain a lot of land.
Sec 103 Same problems, only now it requires they solve them in 7 days or less. DHS being required to waive all legal requirements in construct (yes, this sounds very safe.).
Sec 104. Seems fine.
Sec 105. This is a bunch of gobblty gook with very little meaning.
Sec 106. I”m pretty sure they already have communication devices, but OK?
Sec 107 100 million in bonuses to border patrol agents for just existing as border patrol agents. (given the requirements for qualifying, thats probably 10s of thousands per agent) Also the phrase “southwest border” is not defined. And I think they should be able to rescue people if necessary.
Sec 108. Sure.
Sec 109. Having a schedule is good, though I imagine they already have one.
Sec 110. So. Much. Pork.
Sec 111. This is a major staffing issue.
Sec 112. This is an eco-system destruction problem. Also you’ll get river bank erosion, which may undermine The Wall.
Sec 113 Sure. Plans are good.
Sec 114. Nope nope nope. This is a major invasion of privacy.
Sec 115. This makes things worse. One of the major sources of illegal immigrants is visa overstay.
Sec 116. I have generalized constitutional concerns about the government collecting DNA from anyone who is not convicted of a crime.
Sec 117. Sure, updating manuals is good. Though not likely to actually address the problem of narcotics smuggling.
Sec 118. This is either not possible under the time constraints or will require a number of new hires to make it happen.
Sec 119. This is, er, very optimistic regarding the state of of criminal databases and the likelihood of foreign countries to give us free access to them. Probably not actually possible.
Sec 120. How many people are using their arrest warrant to enter a secure airport area? But sure?
Is that enough, or would you like me to continue?
Nic (896fdf) — 12/9/2023 @ 6:10 pmI am speaking of House and Senate Republicans, not anyone here.
You are speaking of people like Mitt Romney.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/9/2023 @ 6:15 pm……….. Nikki Haley: 1
Former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie: 1
Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis: 2
Vivek Ramaswamy: 5
Trump, despite not being on stage: 18
The troll poll
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/9/2023 @ 6:16 pmNic, the Senate is not debating that House bill. Believe it or not, the House and Senate are run by two separate groups.
In the Senate it’s mostly Republicans, headed by Mitch McConnell who dislikes Trump as much as Trump dislikes him.
In the House it’s mostly MAGA. Different party. They just got through kicking their coalition partner (the GOP) to the curb.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/9/2023 @ 6:18 pmThe GOP has been having a screaming fit for over a year
I guess this means you think their concerns are immature and childish. Figures.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/9/2023 @ 6:19 pm@Kevin @158/159 They both have to pass the bill. And I think they way they have been expressing their concerns has often been via excessive displays of emotional manipulation.
Nic (896fdf) — 12/9/2023 @ 6:24 pmhttps://twitter.com/RNCResearch/status/1733259355347144791
Joe Biden. And many here will vote for him.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 12/9/2023 @ 6:24 pmAnd I think they way they have been expressing their concerns has often been via excessive displays of emotional manipulation.
As opposed to those that say how much Putin likes his stooges.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/9/2023 @ 6:26 pmJoe Biden. And many here will vote for him.
If Trump is the nominee, you betcha. Try not to make that mistake.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/9/2023 @ 6:27 pmIt’s an unscientific survey of one debate viewing party, nothing more.
Rip Murdock (9a3b4c) — 12/9/2023 @ 6:31 pm@153 I don’t think the hostages families will consider that a good enough answer when a continued ceasefire would bring out more hostages to keep it going. Over 17,000 palestinian civilians have been killed and even Israel admits the south of gaza is so full of refuges hits hard to targets with out killing women and children as collateral. How many dead palestinian children will be enough for you? Kill them all they will just grow up to be terrorists anyway?
asset (263f99) — 12/9/2023 @ 6:32 pmThe same Mitch McConnell who voted to acquit Trump during his impeachment trial?
Rip Murdock (9a3b4c) — 12/9/2023 @ 6:34 pmhttps://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/washington-secrets/dirty-voter-rolls-slammed-131-of-eligible-dc-voters-registered
Only 131% registered? Pikers. Philly has that many vote regularly.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 12/9/2023 @ 6:34 pmhttps://freebeacon.com/biden-administration/hunter-biden-whistleblowers-claim-complete-vindication-after-bombshell-indictment/
NJRob (eb56c3) — 12/9/2023 @ 6:36 pmHe hasn’t paid anything. Are you talking about his Hollywood Sugar Daddy?
What’s he getting in return?
NJRob (eb56c3) — 12/9/2023 @ 6:37 pmhttps://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/todays-blacklisted-american-the-university-of-washington-proudly-says-no-whites-need-apply/
The University of Washington is a racist cult that indoctrinates its students in anti-American behaviors.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 12/9/2023 @ 6:42 pmIsrael (and the US for that matter) has a blind spot when it comes to hostage negotiations. Israel has released thousands of terrorists in exchange for a few dozen hostages over the years. This last go round was no different. Hamas et. al. know how to play on the emotions of the Israeli people.
The deaths of Israeli hostages and Palestinian civilians are the responsibility of Hamas and related groups and no one else.
Rip Murdock (9a3b4c) — 12/9/2023 @ 6:43 pmHamas started this war, but Israel is going to end it on their terms. How long it goes on, and how many civilians are killed, is up to Hamas.
Rip Murdock (9a3b4c) — 12/9/2023 @ 6:53 pmCorrect; and you’re point? Romney doesn’t represent the Republican voters who oppose Ukraine aid. In fact, he’s a dead man walking by not running for reelection. He’s abandoned the fight.
Rip Murdock (9a3b4c) — 12/9/2023 @ 6:58 pmThose adamantly opposed Trump as President (and I am one of them) should ask themselves why Republican party leaders aren’t leading the charge against his nomination but instead have surrendered.
Rip Murdock (9a3b4c) — 12/9/2023 @ 7:07 pm@171 thats an excuse that the families and many others in Israel wont except. 268 palestinians have been killed on the west bank by settlers and the soldiers protecting their stealing of more palestinian lands. Did you see who Israel released in exchange? Most were women and children held in Israeli prisons for years with out charges or trail. Two boys who were held for years were eleven and twelve and arrest for throwing rocks at settlers stealing home and land. They were being held in case Israel needed a prisoner exchange.
asset (263f99) — 12/9/2023 @ 7:30 pm@155 Nic: “Is that enough, or would you like me to continue?”
Please continue. You only went through Division A. The meat of the bill is in Division B, Title I, all sections.
So far though, it doesn’t sound like much of a screaming fit. It’s a shame the Democrats in the Senate didn’t come back with anything other than DOA.
lloyd (7718c0) — 12/9/2023 @ 7:32 pm@174 so they don’t get primaried. Republican election officials like board of supervisors are not running for reelection to be replaced by trumpsters who say they will vote for trump regardless of the votes in az.
asset (263f99) — 12/9/2023 @ 7:34 pmThat’s too bad, but it’s the way it’s going to turn out.
Future terrorists.
Rip Murdock (cf4efa) — 12/9/2023 @ 8:03 pm@178 future terrorists. Sow the wind reap the whirlwind.
asset (263f99) — 12/9/2023 @ 8:08 pmEven Mitt Romney concedes that Trump will be the nominee. He doesn’t need to worry about a primary challenger, yet he is doing nothing to prevent Trump’s nomination.
Rip Murdock (9a3b4c) — 12/9/2023 @ 8:08 pmWhich is why they should never have been released.
Rip Murdock (cf4efa) — 12/9/2023 @ 8:10 pmI’m not talking about local governments-I’m referring to national Republican Party leaders. They’re the ones who are tut-tutting about how bad Trump is but are not leading any effort to confront his lies about the 2020 election and what a Trump future will bring.
Once Trump is nominated, they will have no right to complain.
Rip Murdock (9a3b4c) — 12/9/2023 @ 8:16 pm@lloyd@176 No commentary on the actual concerns?
Sec 121. Babies. Do you have any idea how many vaccines the military is required to receive? *rolls eyes in military brat*
Sec 122. a) who wrote that sentence? Why only for perishables? And how are they using an app to inspect goods b) Why are they using the app to schedule appointments? They are only allowed to use it to inspect only perishable goods. (this section was written horribly)
Sec 123. Shouldn’t this be DHS?
Sec 124. Why just in securing the (poorly defined) SW border?
Sec 125. Impossible because much of this information doesn’t exist.
Sec 126. There are situations where EVs might be cheaper and more effective. This is just partisan nonsense.
Sec 127. I’m pretty sure this is required elsewhere already.
Sec 128. Is this talking about shooting down Mexican drones? I’m pretty sure we aren’t supposed to shoot across the border.
PART B
Sec 101. Apparently the old law had bad formatting? Please pause for a grammar and punctuation update.
Sec 102. in which they follow the editor’s instructions to “rephrase”
Sec 103. People who need asylum only need it if they are at a designated entry point. Desperate and afraid people are both knowledgeable and never ever make desperate decisions.
Sec 104. This entire thing seems ripe for abuse if they made the wrong person mad.
Sec 105. This seems silly. It is to our advantage if a person who has been granted the right to stay in the country is able to work and support themselves and pay taxes. Also immigration bureaucracy is a mess. Requiring renewal every 6 months is not going to make it any better and it created an unnecessary underclass of people who are here legally, began working legally, but were not able to get renewal in a timely manner.
Sec 106. *laughs* OH noes not enough asylum fees! Must charge 50$!. In case you aren’t aware, immigration requires an immigration physical, which can only be done by a special immigration doctor at an immigration clinic and costs $1000 and they don’t take insurance.
Sec 107. This whole thing is a mess that is either ignorant or unconcerned with the realities of life and politics outside the US. There are countries where the entire government functions “outside it’s official capacity.”
Sec 108. Resided needs to be defined here. Part 3 is a mess. Not all parents are responsible ones.
Sec 109. Ignores that the circumstances in a country may change.
Sec 110. More editing instructions.
Sec 111. unfunded mandate.
Nic (896fdf) — 12/9/2023 @ 9:04 pmBTW, Penix might not have won a Heisman but his outfit was an excellent gesture, and purple to boot.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 12/9/2023 @ 9:21 pmWinning a national championship would be a good way of showing those voters wrong.
Correct; and you’re point? Romney doesn’t represent the Republican voters who oppose Ukraine aid. In fact, he’s a dead man walking by not running for reelection. He’s abandoned the fight.
Project much?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/9/2023 @ 9:25 pmI expect, when they do pass the Ukraine bill, that GOP will have got what they wanted. Is Ukraine important? Of course it is. Is not letting 2 million people a year enter (through a immigration loophole because the progressives think it’s to their advantage) important, yes, it is too.
Which is more important? Can’t say, but plenty of people here seem to be able.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/9/2023 @ 9:28 pm@183 “No commentary on the actual concerns?”
You must have missed it. Read my comment again. Here’s more:
I’m glad you were able to demonstrate, on your own, that you take this attempt by the Republicans to fix real problems with the asylum process about as seriously as Democrats have. Thanks for taking the time.
lloyd (7718c0) — 12/9/2023 @ 9:38 pm@lloyd@187 Oh, I did read your comment. You didn’t comment on my actual concerns. And I see that you haven’t done so again. It was a bad attempt and bad law, I suspect because in several places they weren’t trying to write law, they were trying to write politics. If they make a better attempt, I’ll be glad to review that one for you.
Nic (896fdf) — 12/9/2023 @ 9:45 pmThings written by the House Freedom Caucus are low-hanging fruit. Pretty much like any law written by The Squad.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/9/2023 @ 10:11 pm@Kevin@189 I don’t disagree, but lloyd wanted to know what my thoughts were on HR2, so I obliged him by sharing them.
Nic (896fdf) — 12/9/2023 @ 10:19 pm@190 Ah of course, if not for punctuation and grammar issues, the legislation would be fine. Unserious.
lloyd (7718c0) — 12/9/2023 @ 10:30 pm@lloyd@191 No. I stated where the various issues were in the run down. Grammar and punctuation were what was being corrected in those sections. I was not critiquing them for grammar and punctuation, I was summarizing what was in those sections. Did you not read the law?
Nic (896fdf) — 12/9/2023 @ 10:51 pm@182 Similar problem primaried if running hounded and family threatened if not. As NON- ignorant southern white trash and native american I know these people. This is how they treat black people and jews. They are just applying it to republican politicians who are not use to being treated like sub human vermin.
asset (263f99) — 12/10/2023 @ 12:02 amI have a problem with this conclusion: today’s polls suggest that Trump can in fact win.
My problem is that downplays the tsunami that is rushing towards our shores. I’ve seen little attack ads against Trump thus far. I’ll admit that I don’t search for them on-line or know what is running in Iowa or New Hampshire. But suffice to say that if we don’t see them in the primary, they will explode on the scene in the general election. We will see unconscious Capitol police being dragged helplessly out of the Capitol with a cut to Trump sitting passively watching it for hours in the White House….and now suggesting pardons for those convicted.
We will see ads of Trump extolling the genius of Putin after he started his invasion of Ukraine…the genius of Hezbollah attacking Israel post Oct 7. We will see ads of Trump’s closest national security advisors saying he is unfit for the office and that he plans to recklessly turn his back on NATO and S. Korea. We will see ads of Trump claiming special rules when it comes to sexual assault….and how he paid off porn stars for sex while circumventing campaign finance laws…and his infamous “grab them by the pu$$y”. We will see ads showing classified documents stored in bathrooms and Mar-a-Lago closets because Trump could not concede that he was obliged to give them back.
Then, while the tsunami grows, we will have the earthquake of an ex-President being put on trial for J6 obstruction and conspiracy. His principle witnesses against him will be Republicans, mostly ones from his administration. We will have daily reminders of his awfulness followed likely by a conviction. Any interlocutory appeals to the Supreme Court will likely not go his way. Damage control will require the horrible discussion of self pardons and questioning of the legitimacy of our justice system. We will be warned that MAGA zealots will head the DoJ, FBI, CIA, and will sit as his #2. The idea that Trump will not hemorrhage support is inconceivable. 50% of the country is not radicalized. Hell, 50% of the GOP is even a stretch.
Then, we get the start of a second trial where the evidence seems even more incontrovertible. By this point, Trump will be unable to constrain his outbursts and social media reactions. He will implode and act more unhinged and extreme…because that’s what desperate unhinged people facing potetial incarceration do. This will even build a significant resistance in the GOP to eject him from the ticket. Polls in October will crater. His electability will be nil. It’s hardly a stretch to consider it.
Now we could see legal delays and even a hung jury. We could see Biden have a stroke. We can see an economic downturn or an international crisis bungled by team Biden. There’s no guarantees…but to imply there’s no tsunami of bad Trump news approaching is unrealistic. At some point right-wing media will even have to acknowledge it and choose how to address its reality. There is a reckoning approaching….we should accept the probability of it.
I can’t make a $100M ad buy or generate mass mailings for GOP voters. Deep pockets are needed to make the dual case of unelectability and unfitness. Will we yet see them before the tsunami hits? Or will Trump’s inevitability argument win out?
AJ_Liberty (d082cd) — 12/10/2023 @ 7:35 amI’m not a Senator with political influence. Romney was.
Rip Murdock (9a3b4c) — 12/10/2023 @ 7:54 amOuch!
Rip Murdock (9a3b4c) — 12/10/2023 @ 7:56 amSo, now the campus antisemitism story has become “Republicans pounce“
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/10/2023 @ 8:18 amAs I wrote above:
From the first link:
Rip Murdock (f97e54) — 12/10/2023 @ 8:19 amTurns out they were right.
Rip Murdock (f97e54) — 12/10/2023 @ 8:22 amThose who adamantly oppose Trump as President (and I am one of them) should ask themselves why Republican party leaders aren’t leading the charge against his nomination but instead have surrendered.
They surrendered in 2015 and nothing has changed since. A few briefly tried to dump Trump after J6, but those same deep-pocket donors demanded a second surrender.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/10/2023 @ 8:25 amIf the Republican political or corporate leadership can’t or won’t stop Trump, then Trump will inevitably be the nominee.
Someone (Haley, DeSantis, Christie) needs to show some heretofore unknown political support that eats into Trump’s lead. So far they are cannibalizing from each other, and nothing from Trump. His polling leads have not diminished.
Rip Murdock (f97e54) — 12/10/2023 @ 8:39 amSo far Haley, DeSantis, and Christie have the Republican college educated, professional, wine and cheese crowd, but they’re not Trump’s base.
Rip Murdock (f97e54) — 12/10/2023 @ 8:43 amSo far they are cannibalizing from each other
That should stop. Even if they have to draw lots. Since only two of them will be in the next debate, on NBC, I’d suggest that they make that debate be the decider.
Christie is running on ego and bile at this point. Vivek is there as Trump’s assassination insurance.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/10/2023 @ 9:34 amWill we yet see them before the tsunami hits? Or will Trump’s inevitability argument win out?
Since the other candidates cannot seem to attack Trump, and even Christie isn’t buying anti-Trump ads, I’d suggest a “Pick Someone Else” PAC running non-denominational anti_trump ads.
Where is the Lincoln Project when you need them?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/10/2023 @ 9:47 amChristie is running to sell books.
NJRob (6d4815) — 12/10/2023 @ 9:48 amChristie is running to sell books.
Most expensive book tour in history.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/10/2023 @ 10:06 amFast forward to next September when the Republican parties in swing states are suing to replace multiple-felon Trump on the state ballot, over the opposition of Democrat election officials.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/10/2023 @ 10:07 amhttps://thehill.com/opinion/criminal-justice/4350910-with-hunters-indictment-democrats-face-a-moment-of-maddening-truth/
NJRob (6d4815) — 12/10/2023 @ 10:09 amSo whatTV if Biden lied to the public about his relationship with Hunter’s businesses (I’m not conceding he did). If the lies were under oath, then he should be impeached. But if the lies weren’t, they shouldn’t be impeachable; if that’s the new standard then every president from now on should be impeached.
Rip Murdock (f97e54) — 12/10/2023 @ 10:16 amDeSantis is an over-ambitious, nasty, political hack. Haley is out of her league but you can’t blame a girl for trying. Christie is a loser with nothing better to do, spending other people’s (his donors’) money to get him out of the house. Ramasalami is not worth thinking about.
I’d vote for Trump before voting for any of them, and I cannot imagine any circumstances under which I would vote for Trump. I would leave the box blank.
Trump forced me to vote for a couple of second-raters like Biden and Harris, but just that once. He will not get me to do it again with anybody else.
nk (b769c8) — 12/10/2023 @ 10:23 amThey’re cannibalizing from each other because there are few policy differences between them. Their supporters aren’t Trump supporters from the start. Until DeSantis, Haley, adopt Trump’s policies, there’s no reason for Trump’s supporters to change candidates. The Lilliputians will remain Lilliputians because they’re not Gulliver.
Rip Murdock (f97e54) — 12/10/2023 @ 10:23 amThe RNC, seeing that their debate conditions could become irrelevant, since they had no more debates scheduled anyway and since all the important candidates except Donald Trump were going to participate in other debates, withdrew their prohibition on participating in non-RNC sponsored debates,
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 12/10/2023 @ 10:40 amDesantis’ entire campaign is based on Trump being considered unsuitable for public office by enough Republican voters to enable him to become the chief contender, and then becoming the next bestv choice of would-be Trump voters.
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 12/10/2023 @ 10:44 amCurious, the American right-wing fascination with a right-winger like Viktor Orban, and the Heritage Foundation is now clearly right-wing, joining right-winger Tucker Carlson into Orban’s fan club.
Last March, the Heritage Foundation cut a deal with the Danube Institute, which is owned by the Hungarian government (they’ve made no deals with other foreign think tanks). In October 2022, Heritage was in Ukraine’s corner, supporting US efforts to supply them aid. After March 2023, their views aligned with Orban’s. It’s unclear if or how cash went int Heritage coffers after that arrangement. They’ve also aligned with Trump’s populist politics, dispensing with traditionally conservative positions.
This week, Orban’s allies are having closed-door meetings with Heritage, and some of the attendees will include “Republican members of Congress”.
Orban is trying to veto 50 billion Euro in EU aid to Ukraine, basically acting as Putin’s European agent.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 12/10/2023 @ 10:54 amHow’s that working out?
Rip Murdock (f97e54) — 12/10/2023 @ 11:00 amNJRob (eb56c3) — 12/9/2023 @ 6:37 pm
Yes he is, but it counts as a payment by Hunter Biden. The Mafia used to do this too occsionally.It is acceptable to the IRS for someone else to pay your income taxes — in any case Hunter probably paid the money and he got the money in the form of a loan, so it is not taxable. It will be if the loan is forgiven. Hunter is probably also being charged interest at the minimum rate. I am sure they lawyer has an endgame figured out,
Joe Biden as president. He could want that for any number of reasons.
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 12/10/2023 @ 11:03 amRip Murdock (f97e54) — 12/10/2023 @ 11:19 am
I remember when Trump was held liable for fraud for his Trump University scheme, and ordered to pay $25 million to his victims, but he didn’t actually pay a penny. His billionaire Vegas hotel business partner, Phil Ruffin, made the payout, saying that he owed Trump $28 million in “back-fees”. Fortuitous timing for Trump.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 12/10/2023 @ 11:26 amhttps://www.thecollegefix.com/niu-hosts-seminar-on-ending-white-linguistic-hegemony/
Destroying literacy one college seminar at a time. Send your children to institutions of indoctrination and turn their brains to mush.
NJRob (6d4815) — 12/10/2023 @ 11:34 am“I’m not a Senator with political influence. Romney was.”
Trump supporters don’t watch Meet the Press or CNN and don’t read NYT op eds. They watch Fox and though Brett Baier can ask tough questions, team Fox…as illustrated by the Dominion discovery…understands what content it needs to deliver to its viewers and how to spin the day’s politics. Talk Radio is equally disinterested in promoting Romney’s “Trump Derangement Syndrome”. Trump supporters will also be dubious of Never-Trumpers making what they view as a self-serving argument. So the question becomes how do you break into that bubble when there is a praetorian guard of financial interest trying to keep people out? Frankly, it still might not be possible…though that doesn’t mean don’t try.
Historically people do decide late in many primary contests. I think you need to flood the airwaves (TV, phone, and internet) with tsunami 101. Trump is unelectable. He has too much baggage. His actions were inexcusable on J6. He caused his own problems with the classified documents case. He’s too chaotic with his decision-making. He’s lost all of his good advisers and doesn’t have the talent left to check his worst impulses. The polls having him beating Biden don’t reflect the negativity of a trial plus the fallout from his other court cases. His NATO hang-up is dangerous to national security. He doesn’t respect the limits of the Constitution and it will just keep getting himself in trouble. The country can’t afford a perpetually wounded President, one who may very well be convicted before inauguration, and one who is also facing state charges that have no hope of a self pardon.
This is the chisel. There will be pushback. The media will not throw away their meal ticket and their proximity to power easily. But the argument needs to be made….through a forum people will consider….by people that they have some hope of trusting. Trump supporters take everything personally. Coax, don’t scold.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 12/10/2023 @ 11:35 amI’m not a Senator with political influence. Romney was.
Rip Murdock (9a3b4c) — 12/10/2023 @ 7:54 am
What would you have Romney do? He voted to convict Trump when Trump was impeached. He has publicly criticized Trump many times. He will turn 77 before his term is concluded. I say job well done, and enjoy your old age with your family and friends. Plus, his voice will carry more weight if he retires than it would if he loses a primary a la Liz Cheney.
Trumpers, with their cartoonish understanding of politics, get all giddy just thinking about Cheney.
Besides, you can’t lead Republican voters to places they don’t want to go.
norcal (23b995) — 12/10/2023 @ 12:01 pmOops. I just violated AJ’s advice about coaxing instead of scolding. I resolve to do better.
norcal (23b995) — 12/10/2023 @ 12:05 pm“Orbán is confident that the Ukraine aid will not pass in Congress. That is why he is trying to block assistance from the EU as well.”
The Polish trucker’s blockade, which is supposed to exclude military,medical and some food shipments, but which is causing prolonged delays of everything, is more serious,
I think some Republicans want Ukraine aid nit to pass (and they can maniopulate the negotiations) because a disaster will harm Biden’s re-election chances.
It is possible that a bill will pass, but the Democrats would be trading permanent changes in law for a temporary continuation of Ukraine aid. Then the same issue will happen all over again because none of this will stop border crossing. The Republicans are sort of claiming that by making the United States look unwelcoming, people will change their minds. It takes a long time to do that and two or three month’s worth are already on their way. It will cause the balance to tilt in favor of completely illegal and uninspected entries, however.
The mainstream Republicans are blaming Biden for linking the two subjects, but Ukraine aid was in danger anyway. Are they saying that when the Democrats put immigration into the bill, it was like sharks smelling blood in the water?
If more aid to Ukraine fails to, Russia will not gain ground, because it is so incapable, but more Ukrainians could be killed. Putin will not invade a NATO country and European countries will increase their aid.
If Ukraine aid fails, I expect a continuing resolution will also fail because Biden will be in no mood to sign a continuing resolution or appropriation bill without aid o Ukraine.
The Democrats say Biden has given them most of what they want on asylum but won’t give in on humanitarian parole,
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 12/10/2023 @ 12:10 pmFor those who pooh pooh the idea that Trump would be more dangerous in a second term:
https://thedispatch.com/newsletter/boilingfrogs/beer-track-and-meth-track/
This is from Nick Catoggio, whom our host has deemed the best writer on the internet. Nick is spot-on.
norcal (23b995) — 12/10/2023 @ 12:21 pmThe evidence has only mounted against President Biden
Nobody cares. Look at the way that some ignore Trump’s many crimes to focus instead on Biden’s son. Ignoring innuendo and speculation about Biden will be MUCH easier.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/10/2023 @ 12:38 pmYes he is, but it counts as a payment by Hunter Biden.
The current charges against Hunter Biden include actions AFTER his previous debts were paid. As late as 2020, he was filing (or not filing) false returns.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/10/2023 @ 12:41 pmHow’s that working out?
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/10/2023 @ 12:42 pmFor those who pooh pooh the idea that Trump would be more dangerous in a second term
Some cabinet ideas
Secretary of State: Vivek Ramaswamy
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/10/2023 @ 12:49 pmSecretary of the Treasury: Jared Kushner
Secretary of Defense: Rand Paul (or maybe Marianne Williamson)
Surgeon General: Robert F Kennedy Jr
Secretary of Education: Elsie Stefanik
Attorney General: Sidney Powell
Spend some of that Bain Capital money on independent advertising outlining the dangers of nominating Trump.
Rip Murdock (f97e54) — 12/10/2023 @ 1:02 pmThat I agree with, which a lot of people fail to understand. Trump voters, irrespective of what his future criminal trials portend, will vote for him anyway.
Rip Murdock (f97e54) — 12/10/2023 @ 1:08 pm“Oops. I just violated AJ’s advice about coaxing instead of scolding. I resolve to do better.”
Haaa. Too funny. You do fine!
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 12/10/2023 @ 1:21 pmWSJ National Poll 12/9/23
As AJ_Liberty is fond of mentioning, polls this far out from the election (in this case, 331 days) will not be indicative of the final result. In addition, polls including independent candidates are highly speculative, since they need to actually qualify for individual state ballots.
From the poll:
Rip Murdock (9fbe8a) — 12/10/2023 @ 2:29 pmHaley, a former South Carolina governor and U.N. ambassador, tops Biden in a test match-up by 17 points, 51% to 34%
Not that this matters to MAGA, which has never been about “winning elections” but about “pwning the Dems”
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/10/2023 @ 3:37 pmIt’s almost like there is an agenda other than what we think there is….
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 12/10/2023 @ 3:47 pmAmong the politer terms they use for her is“NikkiMcRomBush”.
Rip Murdock (f97e54) — 12/10/2023 @ 4:45 pmRIP, David Drake, military SF writer, 78
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/10/2023 @ 6:07 pmWhat do you expect from a pack of incels.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/10/2023 @ 6:08 pmIf MAGA is 40% of the GOP, which itself is 30% of the electorate, then they only comprise 12% of voters. It looks like Nikki could win the general election without them. THe actual Republcian Party could benefit from that.
“Kiss my ass, MAGA!”
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/10/2023 @ 6:10 pmSad!
Rip Murdock (f97e54) — 12/10/2023 @ 6:14 pmThe only problem is that Haley needs to win the nomination first.
Rip Murdock (f97e54) — 12/10/2023 @ 6:15 pmThe only problem is that Haley needs to win the nomination first.
Yeah. Four more years of Joe Biden then. If Trump is only 4 points up, when the economy is getting better and Trump’s PR is about to tank, Biden will beat Trump in a landslide.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/10/2023 @ 6:19 pmIt’s said that the latest GOP debate was a ratings disaster, but for The CW it was the best rated show in 5 years.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/10/2023 @ 6:24 pm@238 “If” maga is 40% Another 35% are populists who like trump about 1/3 of which support desatan. This is important the rest is not. Biden was elected president by 43,000 votes az, ga. and wi. all trump has to do is get them and a billion votes for biden in california will mean squat. Ad mi, va. and pa. and that is where the 2024 election will be decided. I keep saying the ;but the never trump dreamers ignore reality.
asset (93b58b) — 12/10/2023 @ 6:34 pmEwwwww……
Rip Murdock (f97e54) — 12/10/2023 @ 6:57 pmComparing the ratings of the first three debates with the last one isn’t really fair. The fourth debate was livestreamed on an obscure news site and even more obscure teen-oriented network. Its ratings on the CW are high only relative to its regular shows, whose shows are usually in the cellar.
Rip Murdock (f97e54) — 12/10/2023 @ 7:03 pmNot necessarily:
Rip Murdock (f97e54) — 12/10/2023 @ 7:15 pmRIP, David Drake, military SF writer, 78
May he rest in peace. I had not realized that he was that old.
I enjoyed his books at some point in my life, but like I heard on a mini series on Roku, you can never read the same book twice. The book has not changed, but you have.
nk (40f66d) — 12/10/2023 @ 7:29 pmyou can never read the same book twice. The book has not changed, but you have.
nk (40f66d) — 12/10/2023 @ 7:29 pm
Does that include books by Mark Twain? Somehow I doubt it. 😁
You quote him with a facility that belies a single reading.
norcal (520473) — 12/10/2023 @ 8:10 pm@246 for democrat to win they have to be up 2 to 3 points at minimum. Clinton was up 3 points and lost. If trump is up by even 1 point he wins big.
asset (93b58b) — 12/10/2023 @ 8:33 pmI believe that it was Roughing It that I told you I have been reading on and off since I was a kid and always finding something new in it. Same book, same words, but me with a different perspective on the events Twain relates, and a different understanding of what the words mean and what they evoke.
nk (40f66d) — 12/10/2023 @ 8:40 pm@245: Yes, my point.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/10/2023 @ 9:58 pmMark Twain’s writings were things of many parts. Combat SF not so much.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/10/2023 @ 10:01 pmOver the years I have re-read many books, mostly SF. Some of them hold up (e.g. the 1961 publisher’s version of Stranger in a Strange Land (as opposed to the terrible, no good “uncut” version)) some don’t (e.g. Foundation).
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/10/2023 @ 10:03 pmBiden’s party is at best moderate supporters of Israel like me who consider dealing with hamas is a necessary evil considering the collateral damage to civilians. That is half the party. The other half want ceasefire now and it is growing with every newscasts showing dying children. Israel better hurry up if it wants to get rid of hamas. Most here are strong supporters of Israel who say what ever it takes and how long it takes and while were at it get rid of the anti semites on collage campuses. You are in a minority with little power to persuade the corporate establishment deep state and their figurehead joe biden. By the way their was a reason vulnerable private collage presidents were grilled and not state schools who have political friends who could hit back hard.
asset (93b58b) — 12/10/2023 @ 11:29 pmnk (40f66d) — 12/10/2023 @ 8:40 pm
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/10/2023 @ 10:03 pm
I agree. I have never re-read the any of IA’s science fiction. His ideas are great, but his writing of dialogue is one dimensional to me. All his characters seem to have the same vocab and use the same idioms. I have re-read some of his non-fiction, though.
felipe (5e2a04) — 12/11/2023 @ 4:35 amBiden’s people are saying to the news media that there’s a difference between answering a poll question and casting an actual vote.
In other words, they are saying that a percentage of people who answer polls are answering strategically: Saying they would vote for Trump in order to try to get the Democrats to name another nominee. But they wouldn’t actually vote for for Trump over Biden.
Sammy Finkelman (b434ee) — 12/11/2023 @ 6:18 amThe start of The Foundation is pretty good, but Asimov spoiled it at about the time he introduced the Mule.
Incidentally, neither Foundation, or much other science fiction like Star Trek, anticipated the idea of a black hole at the enter of the galaxy, even after the idea of black holes was around.
Sammy Finkelman (b434ee) — 12/11/2023 @ 6:22 amAccording to Sid Rosenberg, Trump is beginning to think he could carry \new \york (which I’ve read bbefore0
Meanwhile, Trump is trolling people on the word “dicTATOR”
Sammy Finkelman (b434ee) — 12/11/2023 @ 6:25 am@174
Because it’s not their job.
It’s YOUR job to do so.
It’s MY job to do so.
It’s EVERYONE HERE’s job to do so.
These politicians, whether in leadership or not, are put on their seats because of the voter’s will.
Just because they’re in leadership doesn’t always mean they’re going to do exactly what you want them to do.
IT’S up to US to weigh and measure them every election, and it’s ONLY at the polls where we can hold them to account.
whembly (5f7596) — 12/11/2023 @ 6:31 amasset (93b58b) — 12/10/2023 @ 6:34 pm
A candidate never has a special appeal or campaign that affects just strategically placed voters. So this talk of 43,000 voters is wrong.
The Dem vote is so concentrated geographically that that factor is more important than the effect of general ticket system
Sammy Finkelman (b434ee) — 12/11/2023 @ 6:32 am@ asset Hamas stoppd the prisoner exchanges. It was a Black Friday sale – now Hamas wants the release of all of their prisoners and n end to the war.
Sammy Finkelman (b434ee) — 12/11/2023 @ 6:41 amhttps://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/hamas-yahya-sinwar-israel-palestinian-hostages-6407dc41
Sammy Finkelman (b434ee) — 12/11/2023 @ 6:48 amBecause it’s not their job.
It’s YOUR job to do so.
Where is Mayor Daley when we need him?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/11/2023 @ 7:57 amTrump’s favorite bit from Hamilton:
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/11/2023 @ 8:44 amThis, all of this:
whembly (5f7596) — 12/11/2023 @ 8:46 amhttps://www.nationalreview.com/2023/12/the-ongoing-campaign-of-anti-trump-subterfuge/
Yeah, all those criminal charges are just made up. Right.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/11/2023 @ 9:12 amKevin M (ed969f) — 12/10/2023 @ 12:49 pm
Vivek Ramaswamy would not get confirmed. Maybe trade negotiator. Jared Kushner Secretary of State, despite the nepotism, and Congress would make that possible in order to prevent somebody worse. Maybe Steven Mnuchin again Secretary of the Treasury. Trump wouldn’t try Sidney Powell – besides she’s been convicted. Elise Stefanik is almost a normal Republican, except she’s hooked her star to false claims of stealing the election.
Lots of people sponsored by Russia in consultation with the Heritage Foundation, abd Steve Bannon and Stephen Miller approving everyone connected with law enforcement and immigration.
I know this is a joke.
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 12/11/2023 @ 9:14 am@266
…and you continually misses the point.
whembly (5f7596) — 12/11/2023 @ 9:25 amMeanwhile, the LA Times soft-pedals the antisemitic march down Wilshire Friday night.
“Mostly peaceful”
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/11/2023 @ 9:42 amI expect any Biden-Trump general election to become nasty and probably violent.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/11/2023 @ 9:44 amHow is Jack Smith “the administration”?
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 12/11/2023 @ 10:28 amDes Moines Register/NBC News/Mediacom Iowa Poll 12/11/23:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/11/2023 @ 10:33 amwhembly —
Do you think anyone should be prosecuted for 1/6? Do you think Trump — who wanted what happened — be prosecuted for 1/6?
The existential problem for any candidate in the GOP is that they can’t seem to answer these questions in a way that makes sense to us Independents or, indeed, gives anyone in the primary to vote for them and not Trump.
I saw an interesting Ex-Twitter thread from a DeSantis supporter which essentially argued that, no matter what Trump supporters want, Trump will be tried in March and convicted by a biased (his opinion) DC jury. Do Trump’s people have a plan for that? What do they do when states use that conviction to keep Trump off the ballot?
Appalled (6f108c) — 12/11/2023 @ 10:41 amAppalled (6f108c) — 12/11/2023 @ 10:41 am`
It probably won’t start s soon and will last for month
He may not be convicted, and any conviction will rest on questions of law, not fact.
Just say the jury was biased, or that the instructions given to the jury were wrong – all he has to say is cite the same grounds he will use for appeals.
And
That this was a plot on the part of “crooked Joe Biden” who may be impeached by then by the House for good measure – on grounds of trying to protect his son from prosecution if nothing else.
This goes directly to the question of political control of the Department of Justice prosecutions, which Trump will be charging.
They won’t.
To do that, a state would have to pass a special law keeping Donald Trump off the November ballot. It is back letter law that a state can do that.
Of course this will happen only in states that Trump is not likely to carry (but he’ll claim that he could carry them) and he will charge that Democrats are trying to rig the election, and maybe gain votes in places like Nevada and Minnesota and Iowa.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 12/11/2023 @ 11:33 amasset (79dae8) — 12/8/2023 @ 10:47 pm
Isn’t it too soon?
There’s a report by Jake Novak from his contacts in Israel that an I elite unit has been put on alert – training – which makes sense because the period of time when they are closing in on hostage takers is the most dangerous for any hostages there.
What could help is if:
1) The people holding the prisoners are not the same ones who held them all the time or at least not the same ones who kidnapped them – so they will have not much bad to testify against them
2) If they are given a realistic opportunity to surrender
3) And told that the later in their captivity anything bad happens to any hostage, the more priority will be given to punishing the perpetrator.
4) If they realize that so long as they guarding any prisoner they won’t have to fight, although they will have a problem in trying to be in a safe place.
5) And they could even get the death penalty.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 12/11/2023 @ 11:43 amRip Murdock (9a3b4c) — 12/9/2023 @ 6:43 pm
What!!?
It was a Black Friday sale, which lasted seven days.
Only 3 prisoners for every Israeli, and not very important prisoners at that.
Hamas probably didn’t even care about the prisoners they got freed, or about the supplies they got into Gaza, but wanted the ceasefire so they could escape to other positions. An important provision was no Israeli drones over northern Gaza for certain periods.
Now Hamas wants to go back to the regular price, but it will have to be a going-out-of-business sale in which the captors will just get their own lives.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 12/11/2023 @ 11:50 amThis, all of this:
https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/12/the-ongoing-campaign-of-anti-trump-subterfuge/
Almost all these charges are unworthy, dubious, or imprudent,
whembly (5f7596) — 12/11/2023 @ 8:46 am
I’ve lost respect for Rich Lowry. It’s a shame he was chosen to become the editor-in-chief of National Review. National Review had it right back in 2015/2016 with its issue titled “Against Trump”. After that, I gather the magazine started hemorrhaging subscribers who had joined the cult of Trump.
I suspect that Lowry’s primary concern is to have as many subscribers as possible, and since Trumper Republicans outnumber Never Trumper Republicans, he’s going to sing the tune of those who will pay the most money.
I further postulate that this is one of the reasons Jonah Goldberg and David French left National Review to start The Dispatch.
Yes, I know there are still some writers at NR who are critical of Trump, but for the editor to say these things is disappointing.
norcal (cc7077) — 12/11/2023 @ 11:51 amSammy —
Watch Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania should Trump be convicted of 1/6 charges. This is when the 14th Amendment provision becomes a live issue.
Appalled (fd95b5) — 12/11/2023 @ 11:58 amAlso, it’s going to take the Supreme Court to delay the March Trump trial through a failure to act on a significant issue. You honestly think they will waste time dodging the question?
Appalled (fd95b5) — 12/11/2023 @ 12:01 pmKevin M (ed969f) — 12/8/2023 @ 6:33 pm
Maduro was threatening to invade Guyana (he even got a referendum passed endorsing his claim to half of Guyana
https://www.riotimesonline.com/maduros-referendum-rejects-international-mediation-with-guyana
I thought the border was settled by President Grover Cleveland in 1895.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_crisis_of_1895
Well, starting in 1895.
But it seems Maduro has pulled back.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/guyana-agrees-talks-venezuela-territorial-dispute-pressure-brazil-othe-rcna129004
These migrants don’t hurt the United States — they hurt Venezuela, or
would if Venezuela was run differently. The USA is shooting itself in the foot the way it treats migrants.
Now Maduro even got some sanctions lifted in return for agreeing to accept some migrants back.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-admin-makes-exceptions-to-sanctions-on-venezuelan-airline-to-allow-deportation-flights
Biden has no principles. It’s just politics to him, but he’s guilty of what Bob Dole called malpractice of politics.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 12/11/2023 @ 12:10 pm270. Appalled (fd95b5) — 12/11/2023 @ 12:01 pm
No, but trials can be delayed over other questions. Trump is just making his motions one at a time.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 12/11/2023 @ 12:12 pmMy bet is that Supreme Court will dodge 14th Amendment/ Section 3 questions by ruling it is a “political question” to be decided by Congress.
Rip Murdock (2c0dee) — 12/11/2023 @ 12:13 pmWhew, I had to check twice that Rich Lowry actually wrote that piece. Once he says “Russia collusion hoax”, I know who he’s writing for and it’s not for non-hyper-partisans. It’s sad.
Appalled, I agree. Trump should have been impeached and removed for J6. The senators who failed to do their duty are responsible for the impending tsunami of that trial and any violence and chaos it creates. Trump supporters and hyper-partisans cannot look out that far. They soooo want the drama of more Trump that they no longer think about the danger to our institutions or even winning. It’s like a dog chasing a bone off a cliff: Get That Bone!!
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 12/11/2023 @ 12:13 pmLos Angeles continues to struggle with homelessness, despite all the money they spend to help. And the one thing that no one can mention is the stress that unfettered immigration has on the infrastructure.
It’s just all a mystery.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/11/2023 @ 12:15 pmMy bet is that Supreme Court will dodge 14th Amendment/ Section 3 questions by ruling it is a “political question” to be decided by Congress.
It won’t be made any less toxic by waiting until after Trump wins the election.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/11/2023 @ 12:16 pmAppalled (fd95b5) — 12/11/2023 @ 11:58 am
The 14th amendment is just lawfare, but a state has the right to choose its electors any which way it wants.
I don’t think any state disqualifies any person from being listed, except some (I heard this might true of Colorado) may disqualify electors from being pledged to someone constitutionally ineligible for the office of president (e.g. Barack Obama)
If anyone wants to knock Trump off the ballot, they’re going to have to pass a state law doing that before November 5,2024. And they can do that knocking him off by name unless they want to make it more general in order to avoid setting a political precedent.
A state could also specifically add a slate of Electors, or authorize any group to add a slate without bothering with signatures and the like..,.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 12/11/2023 @ 12:21 pmAlmost all these charges are unworthy, dubious, or imprudent,
The New York ones are, and as I said when they were announced, they are being used as cover for the serious ones that came later.
In order of likelihood of conviction:
1. The FL documents case. Trump’s best chance here is that the judge dismisses or delays.
2. The GA election racketeering case. I guess it’s possible that Trump can escape the convictions of most of the others, but the DA is getting more than a few people to flip.
3. The DC J6 case. Smith is playing this close to the vest, so it’s hard to gauge Trump’s peril, but the recent filing where he asserted more involvement by Trump makes this a bit better bet.
4. The NY civil fraud case. The judge is going to lose a lot of appeals here since many of his rulings on “fact” have been counter-factual (e.g. the worth of properties).
5. The NY hush-money case. Trump will be convicted of a couple of misdemeanors at best.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/11/2023 @ 12:25 pm283. AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 12/11/2023 @ 12:13 pm
The Democrats insisted on charging Trump with things he didn’t do. He didn’t incite that crowd with his speech at the Ellipse.(apparently only Dick Cheney, maybe, was worried)
Better would have been simply for his persistent efforts to change the election results. You could argue about whether that went so far as to merit impeachment and removal, but at least the factual basis would be true.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 12/11/2023 @ 12:27 pmGiuliani is going on trial today for damages related to defamation (which he already conceded) of 2 Georgia election workers in Fulton County.
They were the only people actually accused of having participated in the alleged vote stealing plot.
Otherwise, it’s an alleged plot with no actors.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 12/11/2023 @ 12:31 pmWhat I hope to see is, should Trump become the presumptive nominee then be convicted of felonies, that there is an alternate GOP Convention then battles to get the alternate nominee on state ballots along side of, or in place of, Donald Trump.
14th Amendment, the NJ election rule, 3rd party access to ballots, whatever.
Would that be a sh1tshow? You betcha. But I can tell the sh1t from the Shinola, and the GOP needs to separate from the MAGA Party, even if we lose this one.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/11/2023 @ 12:38 pm67. lurker (cd7cd4) — 12/9/2023 @ 12:32 am
I could not see what it said on several computers.I just saw a big X.
Finally, I got this here:
By the way, I now see an X at the top of every post. It seems to be a link to Twitter
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 12/11/2023 @ 12:39 pmGiuliani is going on trial today for damages
What a fool.
I wonder if he’s defending himself. He is expected to take the witness stand.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/11/2023 @ 12:44 pm#282
Rip,
My bet is that Supreme Court will dodge 14th Amendment/ Section 3 questions by ruling it is a “political question” to be decided by Congress.
The 14th Amendment question is not ripe — as they say. I don’t think any of the states are going to be comfortable keping Trump off the ballot without a conviction.
I think folks are wrong when they assert the March Jack Smith trial will be delayed. Sure, Trump wants that to happen. But the Supremes are in the Rule of Law business. They depend on the President faithfully executing the laws of the US. Why cut a break to the guy who puts that at risk?
Sammy #288,
The fake elector scheme would have had to have been the basis of impeachment over the election results, and that didn’t seem to be fully understood yet. The GOP Senators who voted against impeachment did not, at any rate, cast a vote based on fine distinctions of the sort you draw. They were either courting the MAGAs or just honestly afraid of them.
Appalled (6f108c) — 12/11/2023 @ 12:44 pmKevin M (ed969f) — 12/11/2023 @ 12:38 pm
Who would be the delegates?
It won’t be a walkout since almost all the delegates would be Trump delegates.
It could be that some state parties could vote not to put Donald Trump’s name on the ballot in their state.
If they wanted to co-ordinate, I’d expect a lot of private phone calls and Zoom meetings.
No, no no. The local Republican party just secedes from the national party. Won’t happen anywhere except possibly Alaska and Utah.
Otherwise, it’s just anybody.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 12/11/2023 @ 12:45 pmAppalled (6f108c) — 12/11/2023 @ 12:44 pm
Yes, you’re right. It was political for most of them. They never quite got to the merits.
But something true might have had a chance combined with an argument that Trump’s political career wasn’t over.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 12/11/2023 @ 12:50 pmOn Asimov and Heinlein:
The influence of Asimov continues, with three new “Foundation” stories, by Bear, Benford, and Brin. (I picked up one of them, but haven’t read enough of it it to decide whether I like it, and whether it fits well with the originals.)
Asimov also — among many other things — produced two joke collections. The first is better than the second, but the second ends with a goodbye to readers, as he knew he would not live much longer.
I think this joke was in the first: A young Jewish man goes to apply for a job as an announcer at a radio station. When he comes back, his family asks him: “Did you get the job?”
“No”.
“Why not?”
“Because they’re p-p-p-p-prejudiced”, he stutters.
(Now here’s the odd thing: Many years ago, when I was teaching — badly — at a slum school in Chicago, I heard that joke — except it was told me by a black fellow teacher, and the young man was black.
Not being Jewish or black, I wouldn’t tell either version of the joke — without first explaining where I got it.)
Heinlein’s “The Man Who Sold the Moon” inspired both Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk, which is pretty good for a single story. (I love it, but it didn’t make me want to become a billionaire so I could go to the moon,)
I’m probably in a minority in this, but in general I like Heinlein’s earlier stories better than his later ones, and think his “juveniles”, like “Farmer in the Sky” and “Have Spacesuit–Will Travel”, are good reading for adults, too. (The first tries to get the science right; the second is more playful.)
Recently, I came up with this comparison of the two: When I read Asimov, I often come to bumps, where I wish he had done a little re-writing to smooth out the prose. With Heinlein, I also come to bumps, but for the opposite reason: The dialog of many of his characters is too slick, too smart. (Arthur C. Clarke usually hits the happy medium, for me, anyway.)
Jim Miller (a8dbed) — 12/11/2023 @ 12:57 pmIt was understood in Congress, where they had to vote on it.
Not just fake electors- disqualifying electors.
One way Trump had to win (which did not involve Mike Pence doing anything) was for both Houses of Congress to reject the Electoral votes of Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada Pennsylvania and Wisconsin -just enough to reduce Biden’s totals below Trump’s and then rule vote that a majority of the votes cast, not of potential votes was enough to win and declare Trump the winner 232-227.Wasn’t going to happen.
Mike Pence agreeing todo what Donald Trump wanted would have reversed the default (count them) but Trump still would have lost.
Not by enough to et impeached for trying it, though. The Jan 6 storming of the Capitol could act as a motivator maybe to get him out of politics. He created the crucial vote.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 12/11/2023 @ 12:59 pmPreventing people from voting for Trump by taking him off the ballot through a novel and strained interpretation of the 14th amendment is authoritarian and nakedly undemocratic. This is not about residency rules, age, a missed deadline or some objective criteria. It’s not about the law. He is not charged with insurrection. He would be taken off because those in power want him off, and there are those who would cheerlead it without reservation. You are worse and more dangerous than the people you profess to be against.
lloyd (0bba9f) — 12/11/2023 @ 1:01 pm@260 the other states will vote as they did in 2016/2020 so special appeal is irrelevant.
asset (ae9960) — 12/11/2023 @ 1:09 pm@289. “Otherwise, it’s an alleged plot with no actors”
Dec 6:
“A Nevada grand jury on Wednesday indicted six Republicans who submitted certificates to Congress falsely declaring Donald Trump the winner of the 2020 presidential election in their state, making Nevada the third to seek charges against so-called “fake electors.”
JRH (14e837) — 12/11/2023 @ 1:46 pmDoesn’t look like anyone has brought this up yet: the National Retail Federation admitted to fabricating information stating that the majority of retail theft/shrink was due to organized retail crime.
https://twitter.com/JuddLegum/status/1734206569888268697
Sam G (8d2ed1) — 12/11/2023 @ 2:25 pm#298
If Trump is convicted of a felony (or felonies) related to January 6, that will also be a novel and unique situation. We live in a society where, in many states, a convicted felon does not have the right to vote. That includes Trump’s home state of Florida. So, it’s less of a stretch to exclude him than it might appear at first blush..\
Unless he is convicted, I don’t think it’s appropriate to remove him from the ballot. That would be novel and strained, and I hope Colorado doesn’t do it.
Appalled (03f53c) — 12/11/2023 @ 2:25 pmPeople don’t get convicted of felonies for the sole purpose of taking away their vote.
lloyd (1b6a3f) — 12/11/2023 @ 2:51 pm@273
Anyone who assaulted the police should definitely be prosecuted.
Anyone else who wasn’t violent, but got charged were overcharged imo.
Criminally charged? No.
Impeached on J7 for dereliction of his duty as POTUS? Absolutely. As his actions were politically objectionable, rather than criminal.
That’s just it, AJ, I reject this framing.
It’s NOT an existential problem.
Trump isn’t really the disease.
He’s “a” symptom of the disease.
I’ll distill this down to something non-Trump voters can understand:
It’s not that Trump himself is this super amazing person/politican that most of his voters are voting for him. Sure, there’s a small minority of his voters who thinks he walks on water, but again, those voters are the minority.
Trump gets most of his support because he’s not “them”. Them could be:
-establishment GOP (ie, Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, John McCain, Mitt Romney, Bushes, etc…)
-Big Business GOP (Chamber of Commerce)
-Not any Democrats, for any reasons
Basically, Trump was the “choose your own destructor” candidate that represent that most of the GOP voters simply don’t like old, status-quo GOP party.
Its unfortunate that the “old, status-quo GOP party” (which I’ll throw in the #NeverTrumpers) has refuse to acknowledge this in any meaningful way.
I’m sure they have a plan. Not sure, if they’d be successfull.
Hence why I’m a DeSantis honk. At least he doesn’t have that baggage.
whembly (5f7596) — 12/11/2023 @ 3:00 pm@277
Lowry is not even defending Trump.
You can still criticize many transgressions that Trump has committed, while at the same to admonish his critics for abusing their positions in their zeal to “get Trump”.
He’s seeing the “big picture” that I’ve been harping on.
Take Trump out of the equation for a bit.
Do you think things will go back to “normal” like the things were prior to Trump being POTUS?
Whether or not you think Trump deserves whatever happens to him, you’d have to be worry about the precedent that is being set by these Democrat officials.
Right now, they’ve done the “tat”.
Will the next GOP POTUS bring the “tit”?
whembly (5f7596) — 12/11/2023 @ 3:07 pmKevin M (ed969f) — 12/11/2023 @ 9:44 am
It could become violent maybe after the election, but before? That could affect votes.
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 12/11/2023 @ 3:32 pmWhembly you are being perfectly rational and logical. Many on here write what they do to manipulate and incite others. They aren’t interested in any Republicans winning.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 12/11/2023 @ 4:29 pmhttps://www.breitbart.com/middle-east/2023/12/11/iran-rejects-two-state-solution-demands-end-of-israel/
Biden and Obama’s “friend” Iran.
Keep supporting leftists.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 12/11/2023 @ 4:55 pmNetanyahu allowed 360 million dollars a year in cash to flow from qatar to hamas (after giving bibi his cut) Netanyahu had to give permission for cash payments. Other governments would only allow food aid and medical supplys NO cash.
asset (57e0ba) — 12/11/2023 @ 4:56 pmBiden campaign says polls showing him doing badly is because most voters think biden is a corrupt senile old fool and don’t want him to run! They say these voters wont vote for trump. How about like me voting for jill stein like I did in 2016 costing clinton presidency.
asset (57e0ba) — 12/11/2023 @ 5:01 pmTrump Indictments Watch:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/11/2023 @ 5:48 pmBetween 1991 and 2022 the Supreme Court granted 22 “writs of certiorari before judgment” with 7 grants in 2022 alone.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/11/2023 @ 5:51 pmWishful Thinking:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/11/2023 @ 6:10 pmMonmouth University National Poll 12/11/23:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/11/2023 @ 6:21 pm“I don’t think it’s appropriate to remove him from the ballot….I hope Colorado doesn’t do it.”
Colorado would never vote for Trump…so it’s not exactly relevant. If it was Arizona, Georgia, or Michigan….maybe it matters. I’ve not bought the legal argument…and I doubt the Supremes will either. It’s too much power for a secretary of state and the due process is at best fuzzy.
AJ_Liberty (1fc244) — 12/11/2023 @ 7:38 pmI realize many people here think Trump is a Putin toady, but Biden managed this war to give Russia and Putin what they’ve always wanted. The Donbas plus a buffer, the left bank of the Dnipro all the way to the Sea of Azov, and Crimea which was stolen in 2014 is now secure. Granted, Russia also wanted to topple Zelensky and install a puppet, and that did not happen, but Biden either bungled the war material management or he BF’d the Ukrainians, maybe, probably, both. We will still need to arm the Ukrainians, but they won’t be able to retake territory (will be lucky to defend what is left for the next 10 years). The rebuilding money will get wasted and the Chinese now know that they’ll have Taiwan within 10 years whenever they want it.
steveg (20d689) — 12/11/2023 @ 7:50 pmVenezuela is thinking it can take Guyana’s oil, the Houthi’s think they can close the Red Sea, Iranian proxies can lose to Israel and Iran is still empowered because they all know we just want to manage, not win.
@316 china can take taiwan when ever it wants. Putin thought that too. We are slowly re-arming taiwan with weapons we normally refuse to give them. Remember when hitler tried to invade england in 1940? Our navy and airforce is designed to deal with problems like this not fight hamas or houthis. Go on the internet and google taiwan invasion.
asset (57e0ba) — 12/11/2023 @ 8:05 pmAnyone want to defend netanyahu giving cash in bags to hamas. Neftali bennett said we would only give gaza humanitarian aid like food and medical supplies NO cash for bibi to skim.
asset (57e0ba) — 12/11/2023 @ 8:23 pmFamilies of several held hostages including americans asked to attend White House lighting of Menorah ;but were refused invitations. CNN Must be worried about the muslim vote in Detroit with biden’s low poll numbers.
asset (57e0ba) — 12/11/2023 @ 8:42 pm@312
insert
whembly (f79c62) — 12/11/2023 @ 9:08 pmThat should’ve been “So there’s a chance?!?” from Dumb & Dumber.
whembly (f79c62) — 12/11/2023 @ 9:08 pmI’m probably in a minority in this, but in general I like Heinlein’s earlier stories better than his later ones, and think his “juveniles”, like “Farmer in the Sky” and “Have Spacesuit–Will Travel”, are good reading for adults, too. (The first tries to get the science right; the second is more playful.)
Double Star, Citizen of the Galaxy, Tunnel in the Sky all still work. His stuff from the 50’s is pretty much all good. His later work is hit and miss, although The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Friday and Time Enough for Love stand out. I’d add Stranger to that, but the only readable version of that is now long out of print, which is odd for a Hugo-winning book.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/11/2023 @ 11:31 pmWordle in 2 for the second time this week.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/11/2023 @ 11:33 pmColorado would never vote for Trump…so it’s not exactly relevant.
In the primary it would be, and I think that’s what the current case was about.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/11/2023 @ 11:34 pmWhom will Woulda Coulda Donnie blame for his 2024 loss, I wonder. I don’t see him retiring the con.
nk (bb1548) — 12/12/2023 @ 5:49 am145. Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/9/2023 @ 4:08 pm
Increasing the speed of processing would presumably reduce the number admitted. What Republicans want is something like denying all claims to asylum fr one year.
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 12/12/2023 @ 7:35 amDeSantis finally graduates from Ken Doll gonies to something bigger by directly criticizing Trump.
Trump lies all the time, but it’s a dead cert when he puts “sir” in a sentence. I’m only surprised that Trump didn’t say the general had tears in his eyes when saying “sir”.
But it’s all too little, too late. My party is going to nominate a soon-to-be convicted felon as Standard Bearer. I usually agree with Catoggio and his latest is no exception: “Barring an act of God or Tanya Chutkan, the Republican presidential primary is effectively over.” I’d love to be proven wrong.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 12/12/2023 @ 8:07 amThat might even explain all of Trump’s small donors. It’s the money they no longer need for psychedelics.
On the flip side, he is as likely to be a dictator meting out retribution as he was in balancing the budget, replacing Obamacare, and building the Wall. His threats are as much a snake oil samesman’a spiel as his promises.
nk (dc6849) — 12/12/2023 @ 8:18 amA little more from Catoggio.
And personnel is policy, we know what personnel he’ll hire, and it’s why he should never step foot in the White House ever again, and it’s why I remain confounded and frustrated that my party will nevertheless give him that shot.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 12/12/2023 @ 9:04 amIncreasing the speed of processing would presumably reduce the number admitted.
NO, it could increase the speed of admitting. It might also increase the speed of adjudicating, but there is a long parole between those two events with no guarantee that the person admitted will show up for the second part.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/12/2023 @ 10:18 amThe Trump opponents are making the same mistake that was made in 2016: holding on past the point where opposition matters. If there is more than one opponent on the NH ballot, Trump is the nominee.
And I will blame Chris Christie, again, for screwing it all up. Again. This is what, 3, for him? It would only be DeSantis’s first, but enough that I would be unable to support him in the future.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/12/2023 @ 10:24 amCase in point.
The winner of the New Hampshire primary isn’t predictive of either the Republican or Democratic party’s presidential nominee:
Since Christie is only polling above 3% in NH, he will be hardly to blame if Trump wins other primary contests.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/12/2023 @ 10:37 amhttps://mynorthwest.com/3942486/rantz-seattle-student-failed-quiz-for-saying-men-cant-get-pregnant/
Yet another example of leftist utopia where a student fails a test for speaking the truth out loud. Public schools teaching that people other than men have male sex organs and that people other than women can get pregnant.
This is what public schools are brainwashing our kids into believing. It’s their faith. Establishing their own religion.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 12/12/2023 @ 10:45 am@329
“Because he already has” what?
What did he do?
whembly (5f7596) — 12/12/2023 @ 10:54 amAccording to the 538 NH polling averages:
If all of the non-Trump candidates dropped out (except for Haley) my prediction would be that Christie’s 12% would go to Haley; DeSantis’s 8% would be split between Trump and Haley; and Ramaswamy’s 7% would go to Trump. So:
Haley still comes up short; She needs to eat into Trump’s 44%. Even with DeSantis’s full 8% wouldn’t be enough. Christie has nothing to do with it.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/12/2023 @ 11:02 amDefied court orders.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 12/12/2023 @ 11:32 amSending federal forces to confront American citizens.
I question for you, Rob:
If tomorrow in a freak accident your penis is lopped off, do you stop being a man?
I think most people would agree you do not. The difference between sex and gender might be one you don’t understand (it’s tricky for most people), but it’s a concept worth learning about and this quiz wasn’t wrong. Not all men have penises.
Nate (24e30b) — 12/12/2023 @ 11:55 amSince Christie is only polling above 3% in NH, he will be hardly to blame if Trump wins other primary contests.
By failing to give in and allow consolidation, he will be delaying the point where consolidation matters. Trump could have been stopped in 2016 if Rubio had not held out for his Hail Mary in Florida (he lost there anyway) and if Kasich’s ego had not had him going on through May.
Even after Super Tuesday, Cruz had the upper hand in a two-way contest.
——–
But sure, maybe it’s over, but a contest with Christie, Haley and DeSantis still running is utterly hopeless.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/12/2023 @ 12:23 pmTrump 55%
Haley 35
Still, it’s a contest going forward as a lot of energy would go into Haley’s challenge. Further, you fail to consider what portion of Trump’s support is from “winner” voters who might look at someone else who is an actual contender.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/12/2023 @ 12:27 pmNot all men have penises.
But even a biological man without a penis cannot bear children. No matter how hard you try to twist it.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/12/2023 @ 12:28 pmMeanwhile, after the GOP was totally trashed for delaying Ukraine aid, President Biden makes noises about cutting off aid to Israel. Disavowing a long-time ally is bound to make Putin smile.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/12/2023 @ 12:32 pmKevin M (ed969f) — 12/12/2023 @ 12:32 pm
Biden has given Israel a deadline for finishing military operations in Gaza, which Israel thinks it can meet, partly because they’ve come up with new plans. I don’t know whether that deadline is based upon politics or upon appropriations.
But there’s a danger from Hezbollah in Lebanon.
Biden may just be trying to scare Congress, knowing that aid to Israel is more popular than aid to Ukraine.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 12/12/2023 @ 12:37 pmCorrect.
But there’s no way to misuse the military.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 12/12/2023 @ 12:38 pmIn the state of Washington, the teach is correct
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 12/12/2023 @ 12:39 pm@337
Oh, so more of the same federal bureaucracy tug of war with the judiciary, as just about every other Presidential administration.
During the summer of riot? Really?
All of this is indicative that a hypothetical 2nd Trump administration means he’s going to be a “Dictator” because “he’s done it before”????
You and Cottagio has simply lost the plot.
Stop having the vapors, it’s not a good look.
whembly (5f7596) — 12/12/2023 @ 12:45 pmAs you have pointed out previously, not all of the anti-Trump vote would go to a single candidate-a DeSantis or Ramaswamy voter is not a Haley voter. Their votes would more likely go to Trump, as those candidates are similar to Trump than Haley.
Most polls have shown that Trump’s voters are more enthusiastic about their candidate and are more likely to say their vote is locked in (no matter what). Polls have showed that Trump has fewer supporters looking at someone else while there are more DeSantis and Haley voters looking at someone else than are supporting them. For example, in New Hampshire:
And in Iowa:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/12/2023 @ 1:02 pmRight-wing media has normalized Trump’s lies. And they help bail him out of “dictator for a day” and “termination” of the constitution comments too…or for calling for the execution of Mark Milley. Most elected GOP politicians echo the spin and have not called for a reckoning on his impending legal entanglements. The polls then just reinforce the bad behavior of the media and politicians. This is the ecosystem. Too few on the Right want to discuss the potential of having a candidate who will be a convicted felon….as if everything else that comes with that can be spun away.
When the first trial starts to spin up…there will be a come-to-Jesus moment…maybe multiple ones. I fear the reaction those moments will excite.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 12/12/2023 @ 1:03 pmSaid the partisan who still pathetically uses “Russia collusion hoax” in a sentence. You and Rich Lowry.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 12/12/2023 @ 1:47 pmKevin the quiz was on sex vs gender. I don’t think there’s anyone “trying” to claim that biological males can have babies. I’ve never heard anyone make that claim.
I think maybe you are misunderstanding sex vs gender as well.
Good thing this teacher is helping clear things up for the younger generation!
Nate (24e30b) — 12/12/2023 @ 1:48 pm@349
There were no Russian collusion with Trump campaign. Ergo, it’s a “hoax”.
You and rabid Democrats keep pushing this.
Keep ignoring reality.
whembly (5f7596) — 12/12/2023 @ 1:53 pmyou can never read the same book twice. The book has not changed, but you have.
nk (40f66d) — 12/10/2023 @ 7:29 pm
Sorry, nk! I completely missed what you meant. I took “never read the same book twice” literally. Of course we re-read books, but we get different things from them on subsequent readings. Hence, it’s not the “same” book.
norcal (c159a9) — 12/12/2023 @ 1:58 pmYou can still criticize many transgressions that Trump has committed, while at the same to admonish his critics for abusing their positions in their zeal to “get Trump”.
whembly (5f7596) — 12/11/2023 @ 3:07 pm
I agree with this. Some people did abuse their positions in their zeal to get Trump.
The fact remains that Trump, with his Big Lie about the 2020 election, has blown a gaping hole in the foundation of our Republic.
norcal (c159a9) — 12/12/2023 @ 2:05 pmMany on here write what they do to manipulate and incite others. They aren’t interested in any Republicans winning.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 12/11/2023 @ 4:29 pm
That does not describe me. I’d vote for any Republican, other than Trump or Ramaswamy, over Biden. I believe that some of the questionable things DeSantis has said were just efforts to court the MAGA contingent.
norcal (c159a9) — 12/12/2023 @ 2:09 pm@353
Humor me with this.
Where/what/how is this “gaping hole” in our foundation of our Republic?
whembly (5f7596) — 12/12/2023 @ 2:09 pmWhere/what/how is this “gaping hole” in our foundation of our Republic?
whembly (5f7596) — 12/12/2023 @ 2:09 pm
If people don’t have faith in elections, then they will be okay with a strongman taking over. Trump wants to be that strongman.
Did you see his tweet about wanting to terminate the Constitution? If Obama or Biden had said that, you’d never hear the end of it from Fox News, Tucker, and talk radio.
norcal (c159a9) — 12/12/2023 @ 2:18 pmGet some help.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 12/12/2023 @ 2:19 pmI think maybe you are misunderstanding sex vs gender as well.
I think that I am refusing to see the difference. It’s not me that is misunderstanding reality, it’s you that is putting up fictional constructs upon it.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/12/2023 @ 2:22 pmBut there’s no way to misuse the military.
You’ll have to, um, put that in context. Vietnam comes to mind.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/12/2023 @ 2:23 pmNorcal,
the left is deliberately destroying trust in our elections. They refuse voter ID, claim whenever Republicans win it’s because they cheated and disenfranchised minorities or that they want to put them back in chains.
How soon you forget.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 12/12/2023 @ 2:24 pmGender is a literary term that has to do with masculine and feminine descriptions. Sex refers to a man or a woman.
But it figures the left continues to destroy the language in the name of indoctrination.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 12/12/2023 @ 2:25 pmNic,
Do you think it’s a good idea to tell young children that they can change their “gender” if they want? Pretty sure they are clueless and look to adults for guidance. Giving them guidance that is based on a fantastical ideology seems wrong.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/12/2023 @ 2:26 pmRight-wing media has normalized Trump’s lies. And they help bail him out of “dictator for a day” and “termination” of the constitution comments too…or for calling for the execution of Mark Milley.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 12/12/2023 @ 1:03 pm
Some people are so caught up in right versus left that they can’t see Trump for the true danger he is. I sometimes wonder if they’d prefer a dictator with the “right” policies over a lefty who was elected.
norcal (c159a9) — 12/12/2023 @ 2:27 pm@356
Who’s at fault here regarding the lack of faith in elections?
Couldn’t the shenanigan during the covid-era be the culprit?
Saying Trump wants to be that “strongman” is projection.
Trump is a braggadocious blowhard who’s incapable of doing the hard work to become this “strongman” or “dictator”.
He’s just wants the prestige of the Presidency and bask in it’s glory.
No.
But, I did see he said wanted to be a “dictator” only for 1 day. But he was joking. I guess that’s where all these stories of “TrUmP iS gOiNg To Be A dIcTaToR yOu GuYs!?!”
But, again, you ignored my initial question:
whembly (5f7596) — 12/12/2023 @ 2:29 pmHow has (Trump) blown a gaping hole in the foundation of our Republic in comment @353???
Norcal,
the left is deliberately destroying trust in our elections. They refuse voter ID, claim whenever Republicans win it’s because they cheated and disenfranchised minorities or that they want to put them back in chains.
How soon you forget.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 12/12/2023 @ 2:24 pm
That is also wrong. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
norcal (c159a9) — 12/12/2023 @ 2:29 pmHow has (Trump) blown a gaping hole in the foundation of our Republic in comment @353???
whembly (5f7596) — 12/12/2023 @ 2:29 pm
By convincing so many people that he actually won the election. If we can’t agree on election results, then we don’t have much of a country.
norcal (c159a9) — 12/12/2023 @ 2:31 pm@363
I see Biden and most of the current crop of the likely Democrat POTUS candidates much, much worse than a 2nd Trump term.
But, yes, that’s how it works in some country norcal.
‘Tis why, I’ve been yammering about ya’ll getting behind DeSantis.
I just want to win in 2024. We cannot afford another Biden administration.
whembly (5f7596) — 12/12/2023 @ 2:33 pm@366
That’s silly.
We’ve survived 2016. How many time you hear from Democrats that Trump’s election as illegitimate?
Hell, the Bush v. Gore in 2000 was much more contentious, and that’s because much of the media was almost exclusively Democratic leaning.
The United States of America has gone through these hotly contested elections and weathered the storm just fine.
Have a little faith.
whembly (5f7596) — 12/12/2023 @ 2:36 pmDid you see his tweet about wanting to terminate the Constitution? If Obama or Biden had said that, you’d never hear the end of it from Fox News, Tucker, and talk radio.
norcal (c159a9) — 12/12/2023 @ 2:18 pm
No.
whembly (5f7596) — 12/12/2023 @ 2:29 pm
Here you go:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-63851751
He said it a year ago. People who only pay attention to right-wing media may not know about it.
My mom hadn’t heard about it. She is a 50+ year John Bircher who loves the Constitution. When she found out Trump said that, she switched her support to DeSantis.
norcal (c159a9) — 12/12/2023 @ 2:37 pmWe’ve survived 2016. How many time you hear from Democrats that Trump’s election as illegitimate?
Hell, the Bush v. Gore in 2000 was much more contentious, and that’s because much of the media was almost exclusively Democratic leaning.
whembly (5f7596) — 12/12/2023 @ 2:36 pm
Those were bad, but J6 and the fake certifications surrounding the 2020 election were much worse.
norcal (c159a9) — 12/12/2023 @ 2:42 pm@369 norcal (c159a9) — 12/12/2023 @ 2:37 pm
Ah, I remember that.
Trump is a blowhard who makes up absolute crap all the time.
He threatens to do ‘x’ but never gets there.
He’s an awful President who can’t get out of his own way of meaningful GOP progress without putting aside his own ego.
…and I’ll still take him for 2nd term over any Democrats. Bide was supposed to be bring “the adult” back to the Whitehouse. He utterly failed that metric.
A 2nd Trump term will be more of the same of the 1st, which if people were honest about the kitchen table topics…were much better under Trump’s administration than at any point under Biden’s.
But I want to win, and win convincingly.
Vote for DeSantis! Convince your peers to vote for DeSantis!
I would say, vote for DeSantis as often as you can! But, that’s illegal… 😉
whembly (5f7596) — 12/12/2023 @ 2:44 pm@370
Wholeheartedly disagree.
whembly (5f7596) — 12/12/2023 @ 2:46 pm@372 But, that’s simply an opinion.
We’re still a country now, aren’t we?
We can survive these turbulently contested elections.
whembly (5f7596) — 12/12/2023 @ 2:47 pmTrump’s infatuation with Viktor Orban is also telling. The fact that he specifically brings him up in campaign speeches….even when though the average voter doesn’t really know who he is….tells me he wants to start seeding what he would like to emulate. Now some might say, well, looking at the steel grip Orban has on Hungarian politics, isn’t that a good thing? In terms of civil liberties and a pluralistic democracy…it’s a bit concerning. Anyone eager to emulate Orban is someone looking to be king. That’s a problem.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 12/12/2023 @ 2:52 pm@334 You get what you pay for. You want low local taxes mostly leftys will work for chump change that is paid. Their is a vast teacher shortage especially in red states where the pay is lower and classes are bigger. When fascists like desatan try to run roughshod over the education system with their right wing propaganda the teacher shortage counters this because if the democrat teachers go on strike or quit their is no one to replace them. When kansas tried to replace low paid teacher shortage with people who did not have teaching credentials mostly attracted child molesters and perverts. Same thing happened in az with charter schools.
asset (cd406a) — 12/12/2023 @ 2:58 pmI vote DeSantis because he is a non-starter with the blacks, who I think could turn Trump into their LBJ 2.0, if he lets all the rapper praise get to his head. He actually seems to like nobody, which is good enough for me.
urbanleftbehind (32e313) — 12/12/2023 @ 2:59 pm287 292 Re: Giuliani
He still seems to believe it. Outside the courthouse Giuliani said what he said about those two election workers was true.(he had some time earlier said he was not going to dispute that it was false but was not disputing it was false for the sake of argument, in order not to have a trial about that.)
https://www.newser.com/story/343781/judge-giuliani-may-have-defamed-plaintiffs-again.html
The only thing true is that somebody else brought video to his attention and claimed it showed election workers stealing votes.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 12/12/2023 @ 3:06 pmNY State high court orders Democrats to create a new gerrymander
Note that this is the NY Times lamenting the loss of the “highly competitive” map.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/12/2023 @ 3:07 pm@343 Netanyahu has just been talking to putin and has been reluctant to support ukraine especially at first. Where has biden disavowed Israel? He wont even disavow the the bottle deposit crook netayahu and the racists palestinian land stealers in the likud party.
asset (cd406a) — 12/12/2023 @ 3:07 pmAgain, it is possible to eliminate all gerrymanders with multiple-representative districts.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/12/2023 @ 3:08 pmThat is also wrong. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
But three do.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/12/2023 @ 3:10 pm@352 Heisenberg uncertainty principal.
asset (cd406a) — 12/12/2023 @ 3:11 pmTheir is a vast teacher shortage especially in red states where the pay is lower and classes are bigger.
Some of that has to do with school systems that have 75% of salary going to non-teachers, and like amounts of money never getting to the classroom.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/12/2023 @ 3:12 pm@360 How soon you forget. About 15 years ago democrat party said ok you want ID to vote we will have a national voter ID that you have to show to vote. RethugliKKKans said NO! We want state IDs that we can manipulate and change rules to keep as many minorities as possible from voting. With federal ID to many minorities couldn’t be stopped from voting. In some states we can stop blacks from voting even if they only have a misdemeanor or owe fines that would go away under federal ID. In texas you can vote with hunting or fishing ID ;but not state collage ID. That would allow them to vote!
asset (cd406a) — 12/12/2023 @ 3:22 pm378. They had to do quite a lot to get this result:
1) Get Chief Judge to resign
2) Refuse to confirm -initially refuse to even vote on – the Governor’s first nomination and indicate whom they would and would not confirm.
3) Get one judge to recuse herself
4) Have the new chief judge replace (for this case) the recused judge instead of just having six judges hear the case.
Basically they ruled that the special master’s work was only for 2022.
I think the commission could deadlock again.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 12/12/2023 @ 3:24 pmBut, that’s simply an opinion.
We’re still a country now, aren’t we?
We can survive these turbulently contested elections.
whembly (5f7596) — 12/12/2023 @ 2:47 pm
I hope your faith turns out to be correct.
For the most part, I think we agree. Apart from Trump or Ramaswamy, I think any of the other Republicans are preferable to Biden.
My take is that Trump and Ramaswamy are grifters who bring out the worst in people, on both sides. Furthermore, they are grifters who would be happy to be authoritarians.
I do not believe that Trump will be so inept this time around. He and his cronies learned their lessons from the last go round. He will surround himself with yes-men, and appoint judges who are personally loyal to him. And if he gets some high-ranking military officers on his side, all bets are off.
I don’t think he will heed the Federalist Society as much. After all, some of those judges recommended by the Federalist Society (including Justices on the Supreme Court) shot down Trump’s bogus lawsuits contesting the election.
I think electing Trump again is playing with fire in a way that is much more dangerous than having lefty policies. England, Sweden, and New Zealand all used to be more socialist (and with much higher taxes) than is the case now.
norcal (c159a9) — 12/12/2023 @ 3:26 pm384. asset (cd406a) — 12/12/2023 @ 3:22 pm
Really college students, who may not want to change their driver’s licenses or state IDs.
A Supreme Court decision from 1972 says a person cannot be required to reside in a state for more than 30 days in order to be eligible to vote.
Not allowing college IDs to be used is a workaround around this.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 12/12/2023 @ 3:30 pm@380 what would end gerrymandering is percentage of vote totals that still allow districts If you get 50 % of vote you get 50% of represenitives say 10 congress people rep. 50% dem. 40% lib. 10% 5 rep. 4 dem. 1 lib. State leg. same.
asset (cd406a) — 12/12/2023 @ 3:32 pm@383 Thats the way it is and doesn’t solve lack of teacher issues and would actually make it worse (lack of advancement) Desatan and the rethugs have a dilemma.
asset (cd406a) — 12/12/2023 @ 3:38 pm@387 college id was texas issue and brought up as example. The much bigger issue is using state ID regulations to stop minorities from voting. A national voter ID would insure only citizens vote without petty state rules like floriduh’s rules preventing people with felony convictions from voting after voter passed law allowing them to vote. Or misdemeanor traffic violations preventing you from voting. Mississippi is trying to pass a law if you owe child support you can’t vote!
asset (cd406a) — 12/12/2023 @ 3:48 pmnorcal (c159a9) — 12/12/2023 @ 3:26 pm
They need to get confirmed by the Senate. You think there won’t be people looking out for this? And he would need more than some.
It will be the Heritage Foundation, in consultation with Russia.
Or maybe not:
https://freebeacon.com/elections/trump-campaign-swats-down-heritage-foundation-transition-effort-led-by-longtime-desantis-ally
Apparently, Trump didn’t like that Putin was trying to hedge his bet.
(The Heritage Foundation has probably been bribed by Russia. It’s working with Hungary to cut off aid to Ukraine)
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/10/hungary-viktor-orban-republicans-ukraine-aid Allies of Hungary’s far-right prime minister Viktor Orbán will hold a closed-door meeting with Republicans in Washington to push for an end to US military support for Ukraine, the Guardian has learned.
Members of the Hungarian Institute of International Affairs and staff from the Hungarian embassy in Washington will on Monday begin a two-day event hosted by the conservative Heritage Foundation thinktank. Of course, they’re also for cracking down on asylum requests, because this will also cut the United States off from defectors and other information.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 12/12/2023 @ 3:49 pmThat sentence is mine. The previous lines were supposed to be blockquoted. I think this anti-immigration hard line is coming from Russia.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 12/12/2023 @ 3:52 pm@380 what would end gerrymandering is percentage of vote totals that still allow districts
Much simpler (and I know leftists hate simpler) is to elect 2 or 3 reps from a district, with voters getting only one choice. From some districts (e.g. San Francisco) you may get 3 from one party, but most place you will get a mixture and most voters will have someone who represents them. You will also get less polarization, even in that SF district.
The issue we face are both polarized representatives and the feeling that “my vote doesn’t count” which happens a lot when districts are gerrymandered. If 80% of voters had someone they voted for in the legislature, it would be a lot easier to accept what the legislature does.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/12/2023 @ 4:05 pmnorcal (c159a9) — 12/12/2023 @ 3:26 pm
And if he gets some high-ranking military officers on his side, all bets are off.
They need to get confirmed by the Senate. You think there won’t be people looking out for this? And he would need more than some.
Last time around he had Michael Flynn in his pocket, an ex-general who, if I remember correctly, was willing to help Trump institute martial law / suspend the inauguration of Biden while the voting machines were “examined”.
If Trump wins, and the Republicans have a majority in the Senate, I can see Trump appointing high-ranking officers who are loyal to him instead of the Constitution. We already know what Trump thinks of the Constitution.
I’d rather play it safe, and not have Trump or Ramaswamy anywhere near the White House.
norcal (c159a9) — 12/12/2023 @ 4:11 pmSununu endorses Nikki Haley
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/12/2023 @ 4:27 pmSununu endorses Nikki Haley
Sununu endorses Nikki isn’t exactly a no-brainer. From your link:
Endorsements are overrated. DeSantis’s endorsements in Iowa by Gov. Kim Reynolds and Bob Vander Plaats have done little to staunch his campaign’s bleeding. But in Haley’s case at least it could consolidate the wine and cheese crowd. At best this endorsement will cannibalize from Christie’s support, but will do nothing to cut into Trump’s base.
As I pointed out above, even if Haley consolidated the Christie vote and all of the DeSantis vote (which would be extremely unlikely), she will still come in second (Ramaswamy’s supporters are in the Trump camp). She will still receive some delegates, so it won’t be a total loss.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/12/2023 @ 4:44 pmCorrection:
Sununu endorses Nikki
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/12/2023 @ 4:46 pmisn’t exactlyis a no-brainer.Endorsements are overrated. DeSantis’s endorsements in Iowa by Gov. Kim Reynolds and Bob Vander Plaats have done little to staunch his campaign’s bleeding
So, you say that endorsements of fading candidates don’t help and extrapolate that to endorsements of rising candidates. Sorry, I’m not buying. If Sununu had endorsed DeSantis it might not have helped DeSantis, but it would have been severe blow to Haley’s momentum.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/12/2023 @ 6:02 pmA NH result like
Trump – 50
Haley – 30
DeSantis – 8
Christie – 7
Vivek – 5
would end several campaigns
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/12/2023 @ 6:05 pmVivek will stay in until Trump stops funding him.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/12/2023 @ 6:07 pmHaley’s momentum is only among the NH wine and cheese crowd. Sununu‘s endorsement won’t do anything to diminish Trump’s lead. Two different sets of voters.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see the NH results similar to your breakdown-which would prove that Sununu‘s endorsement couldn’t put Haley over the top-or stop Trump.
Rip Murdock (f97e54) — 12/12/2023 @ 6:18 pmHaley is a rising candidate only paper, cannibalizing support from other non-Trump candidates in an open primary state. She really hasn’t dented Trump’s support.
It remains to be seen whether she can take votes away from Trump in a primary where Democrats and independents can’t participate.
Rip Murdock (f97e54) — 12/12/2023 @ 7:07 pm@396 vander plaat orders his “church ladies” to vote for who ever pays him the most money, in this case desatan.
asset (35c2c0) — 12/12/2023 @ 7:26 pmTexas supreme court orders woman with dying fetus not to have abortion. In kentucky woman with dead fetus asking court for abortion. Even republican women will have to vote democrat as this horror saga continues. Ken paxton is lucky a squish like biden is in the white house.
asset (35c2c0) — 12/12/2023 @ 7:32 pmCBS news: Israelis demonstrate against netanyahu for allowing Qatar to give cash payments (in bags) to Hamas to buy weapons to kill Israelis. So the crook can get his cut.
asset (35c2c0) — 12/12/2023 @ 8:02 pmHow much fraud is there with mail in voting?
NJRob (eb56c3) — 12/12/2023 @ 8:08 pm“She really hasn’t dented Trump’s support.”
What tactic should Haley be using to erode Trump’s support?
AJ_Liberty (aa1c83) — 12/12/2023 @ 8:48 pmI have no idea, but once ( or if) Haley consolidates the anti-Trump vote, she will need to find some way to do so. Being anti-Trump is currently a minority position among Republican voters.
Rip Murdock (f97e54) — 12/12/2023 @ 10:07 pmRIP actor Andre Braugher (61). Starred in Homicide: Life On The Streets, one of my favorite TV shows; and in Brooklyn Nine-Nine.
Rip Murdock (f97e54) — 12/12/2023 @ 10:14 pm@406 This was a problem for trumpsters. For many years republicans have run on voter fraud even though most who are caught do it are republicans as I have chronicled here. Because republicans over the years have made voting more difficult under the guise of preventing voter fraud to suppress democrat votes it is really hard to do. In AZ your mail in signature is checked against your registration signature and if they don’t match you are called down to county recorder to match signatures or your vote doesn’t count. If counted your name is put in county computer that you voted so you can’t vote twice. The best the trumpsters could come up with was that people left without voting because they were changing ink in the ballot printer and it took to long. Ballots printed by printing company had the printers logo on ballot and the trumpsters wanted those ballots thrown out and not counted. Had this been done a congressman and a superintendent of public instruction and several state legislators all republicans would have lost! Sydney powell admitted that she made up lies about the voting machine company at her trial for defamation and said nobody believes somebody like her!
asset (35c2c0) — 12/12/2023 @ 10:17 pmIf Haley intends to hold out until Trump implodes, she will probably be disappointed. Trump can win or come in second in primaries, racking up delegates, even while on trial. Huge numbers of voters will have cast their ballots in advance of Super Tuesday and primaries beyond before a verdict is reached in the election interference case.
Rip Murdock (f97e54) — 12/12/2023 @ 10:30 pmRip, you keep making the same mistake over and over — you assume that Trump’s support is solid and there is no bandwagon component.
If there is another game in town, I’d expect him to lose up to a quarter of his current support, especially if that other candidate looked much stronger against Biden.
The only thing certain about static analysis is that it’s wrong.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/12/2023 @ 11:22 pmSammy, I have an unhealthy attachment to my Windows 7, but I sometimes wonder if you aren’t still running Windows 95. Here’s the Jennifer Griffin tweet that elicited Pat’s opinion that the GOP is “repulsive”:
lurker (cd7cd4) — 12/13/2023 @ 1:35 am@412 If trump supporters were traditional conservative economic libertarian free trade reagan republicans instead of populists you might have a point. Indictments grab um by the ….. had no effect. Just as they stood by the fuhrer as the russian tanks rolled in! As sun tzu said no your enemy and yourself like I do, you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles. If you no neither you will always lose. Clap please. For the umpteen time reagan invited the ignorant southern white trash racist democrats into the republican party at philadelphia mississippi in 1980 where the three civil rights workers were murdered by these same racists. Trump hates the same people they hate and desatan pretends to hate with that fake alfred e. newman smile. Why do you think the 70% of the party who are populists and loathe never trumpers will change? Remember vote early and often for curly who was elected boston mayor from a jail cell. Many have been elected after felony convictions and some even from jail cells. You are not a populist so you don’t understand. I do as I am non-ignorant southern white trash and native american and have lived among all my 74 years. I remember segregation and how people were treated with poor white people like me treated a litle better ;but not much. Standing in line for hours at county hospital waiting to be seen with a thousand other people as before medicare regular hospitals didn’t have to treat you. People died in line waiting to be seen though fortunetly not when I was in line with my family. This breeds hate though they hate the wrong people.
asset (35c2c0) — 12/13/2023 @ 1:38 am@413 america firsters and islolationists like charles lindbergh praised hitler. Nothing new and they were republicans too!
asset (35c2c0) — 12/13/2023 @ 1:42 am@408 &411, If Trump is convicted, it would take Biden dying…maybe….for Trump to win the 2024 election. There’s no way moderates, independents, and law-and-order conservatives will vote for him.
This will be made real in polls as the trial concludes, likely before the convention in Milwaukee. Trump certainly has an advantage at the convention to fight to hold the nomination. But we would be in truly unprecedented times and it’s likely that many voters will have buyer’s remorse. Will they choose to lose to Biden versus go in a different direction? Maybe.
Current polls only reflect today’s spin on the narrative. That charges are political and that the events surrounding J6 might have been wrong, but they weren’t illegal. Those polls don’t convey the wear and tear of evidence that will come out and the likely weak defense response. I predict opinions will change. There’s nothing about J6 that is noble. The imagery of Trump fiddling while Capitol police are dragged unconscious down the Capitol stairs will be devastating.
As you agree that there is no clear strategy that Haley should be employing right now, the only action left is to wait for opinion to shift and be ready as the alternative. That means maximizing her vote count…and not shooting herself in her foot because you want to see her do it. She remains a better general election option than DeSantis and I think early voting will prove that out.
AJ_Liberty (cac332) — 12/13/2023 @ 4:20 amYou’re assuming Trump supporters are rational voters, I am not. They want their retribution and “dictator for a day,” and only Trump can provide that. The polls for the past six months haven’t shown any movement away from Trump, in fact his support has grown.
His supporters have consistently said he is the best candidate against Biden. There is no reason to believe Trump voters will support anyone else (all other being equal). For Trump supporters, he is the only game in town.
As we have seen with the impact of indictments, I expect to see his polling strength grow rather than shrink during any trials.
If….. I expect…….
Rip Murdock (f97e54) — 12/13/2023 @ 6:10 amGonna go to Sarasota!
Gonna find myself a threesome!
Some folks complain about the hypocrisy. To quote Bill Clinton, close but no cigar. It’s Florida Republicans peddling swamp gas as eu de conservatism. These are DeSantis’s close cronies and they pretty much define him and his sicko party.
nk (dc6849) — 12/13/2023 @ 6:12 amAJ_Liberty (cac332) — 12/13/2023 @ 4:20 am:
I’ve had buyer’s remorse just about every time I’ve voted. 😉 Haley has already been “shooting herself in her foot” on her own. All you need to do is wait a few days.
So far the primary polls have been remarkably consistent for Trump, with the only changes among the Lilliputians. We’ll see in a few weeks if the current polls are “spin” or not. If Trump wins in Iowa and NH, then I guess not.
Since the first major trial won’t start until the day before Super Tuesday, it will have little impact on the campaign. Some 800+ delegates will be chosen on that date, with many voters casting their ballots in February. They may have “buyer’s remorse”, but that’s the price you pay for voting early.
No matter the media hype, it is way too early to predict a general election result, given the variables of any Trump trials, convictions/acquittals, and whether RFKJr. (or some other candidate) can get on a significant number of state ballots. It’s a toss up.
I have reconsidered, and believe she will start adopting “Trump lite” policy positions, agreeing with him but adopting a less extreme approach. Of course, this could bring accusations of “me-tooism” and flip flopping……..But it will be ineffective, since why would a Trump voter vote for a “lite” version when they can vote for the real thing.
Rip Murdock (f97e54) — 12/13/2023 @ 6:48 amNailed it.
whembly (5f7596) — 12/13/2023 @ 8:28 amhttps://www.nationalreview.com/2023/12/lame-ducks-and-dictators/
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hunter-biden-appears-on-capitol-hill
Hunter Biden pulled a Steve Bannon.
Anyone want to guess if the DOJ will prosecute Hunter for refusing a Congressional subpoena?
It does put Merrick Garland is a spot.
Bueller? Bueller?
whembly (5f7596) — 12/13/2023 @ 8:40 amOuch!
Rip Murdock (f97e54) — 12/13/2023 @ 9:22 amHunter Biden’s response: Take a number and get in line.
Rip Murdock (f97e54) — 12/13/2023 @ 9:25 amhttps://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/washington-secrets/coming-clean-1-in-5-admit-2020-election-fraud
NJRob (de583a) — 12/13/2023 @ 9:34 amYou’re assuming Trump supporters are rational voters, I am not.
No, I am assuming that *some* of them are. There is an unpersuadable core, of course, but quite a few people answer “Trump” to pollsters for different reasons: resignation, orneriness, ignorance of alternatives and bandwagon effect to name a few.
In states where there is active campaigning Trump’s numbers are lowest; this indicates that people can be persuaded and are being persuaded. Add to that any possible disruption of the “inevitability” argument and you have Trump possibly joining the Hillary 2008 campaign.
Democrat 2008 polling (also graph) showed Hillary winning every poll through January 2008, but then losing IA, SC and NV while barely winning in NH. Later, Edwards dropped out and almost all his delegates with to Obama.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/13/2023 @ 9:34 amNonsense. DeSantis told them to step down.
NJRob (de583a) — 12/13/2023 @ 9:36 amwithwent.I have whole-word typos.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/13/2023 @ 9:36 amUnfortunately, the obvious lesson Providence wishes to teach us with Trump is that in our age, heroism begins in self-effacement and humility. Who wants to learn that?
It’s not something that you learn, it’s something that comes from character.
But yes, Trump is being cast as Emmanuel Goldstein by some, and ironically this makes him more attractive to those that want to burn it all down.
Better to portray him as he is: a chaos agent whose bumbling incoherence over 4 years cost them countless opportunities and portends to do so fro another 4 years regardless of who wins in 2024.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/13/2023 @ 9:41 amElection fraud? What election fraud?
Or is it polling fraud? I’d like to see the crosstabs with their actual party registration.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/13/2023 @ 9:43 amWhat states show Trump’s poll numbers are declining? Not Iowa. Not New Hampshire. His numbers have been relatively stable over time. It doesn’t matter if they are lower than his national average, he still leads his opponents by a substantial margin.
I daresay that the current Republican electorate is far more committed than the Democratic electorate of 15 years ago.
Rip Murdock (f97e54) — 12/13/2023 @ 9:49 amI doubt Hillary had a 20+ lead over Obama in any state in 2008.
Rip Murdock (f97e54) — 12/13/2023 @ 9:52 amI doubt Hillary had a 20+ lead over Obama in any state in 2008.
I give you links, I give you graphs, and all I get is “I doubt”?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/13/2023 @ 10:03 amAnd as I pointed out previously, a more Haley and DeSantis voters are considering other candidates than are committed to them.
Rip Murdock (f97e54) — 12/13/2023 @ 10:04 amThe percentage of Trump supporters who are solidly behind him is much higher than those considering other candidates.
What states show Trump’s poll numbers are declining?
The are both 10 to 20 points under the national polls, which shows that some HAVE been persuaded by campaigns. Given another candidate a better likelihood to compete and you will see more defections.
For someone who professes to be against Trump, you seem to be cheering him on pretty hard and spinning every doubt his way.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/13/2023 @ 10:05 amIt’s still irrelevant to 2023.
Rip Murdock (f97e54) — 12/13/2023 @ 10:05 amTrump’s supporters have a passion all their own.
Rip Murdock (f97e54) — 12/13/2023 @ 10:06 amVoters in Iowa and NH do have choices, and so far they have chosen Trump. He doesn’t need a majority to win.
Rip Murdock (f97e54) — 12/13/2023 @ 10:13 amIn absence of actual facts that Trump supporters are persuadable, it may seem that way. My argument is that they aren’t persuadable, as polling has shown they are more committed to their candidate than supporters of Haley or DeSantis, combined with his relatively stable polling.
We’ll see if his support holds after Iowa and NH vote.
Rip Murdock (f97e54) — 12/13/2023 @ 10:22 amIf Trump supporters were persuadable, you would see a steady decline in his poll numbers. That just doesn’t exist (at least in Iowa and NH).
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/13/2023 @ 10:46 amKevin: “In states where there is active campaigning Trump’s numbers are lowest”
Rip: “What states show Trump’s poll numbers are declining?”
Aren’t those two different points?
Rip: “Since the first major trial won’t start until the day before Super Tuesday, it will have little impact on the campaign.”
You don’t think an impending trial-of-the-century won’t grip most media sources for the month leading up to it? Speculation and analysis will run rampant. It certainly may keep solidifying people in their bubble…but there are moderates and independents….Trump can’t win without them. He sat while the Capitol was sieged. The actual legal indictment aside, people will be reminded how horrible a person he is.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 12/13/2023 @ 10:47 amWisconsin’s winner take all primary for 41 delegates is on April 2nd.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/13/2023 @ 10:55 amHow different will the media coverage be from what it has already been-it’s been rehashed over and over again since Trump was indicted. The January 6th indictment coverage is already baked in the polls. Trump supporters don’t care-for them it was a “perfect day.”
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/13/2023 @ 10:59 amYes, and I think whether Trump’s poll numbers are declining is more important than whether they are lower than his national numbers. That is to be expected since the national numbers include Trump strongholds in the South and other regions, while individual state polls encompass a smaller population. It doesn’t matter if Trump’s state polling numbers are lower than his national numbers, what is important is how his state polling numbers are behaving. They aren’t declining, they are holding steady, which tells me that his supporters are not being persuaded to jump ship. And he doesn’t need a majority of votes to win delegates, a plurality will do.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/13/2023 @ 11:05 amHeh…
/in Bill Clinton’s southern voice…
whembly (5f7596) — 12/13/2023 @ 11:19 amNo candidate save Christie was willing to go scorched earth on Trump, they’re all hedging their bets, for to go scorched earth on Trump is to also forfeit a future in MAGA land. Even Haley still calls him a “friend,” (last time I checked). “To be the man you got to beat the man,” to quote the great Ric Flair. Nobody wanted it bad enough.
JRH (14e837) — 12/13/2023 @ 11:19 amOh, and don’t forget the meek, cowed hand-raising, when asked if they’d support Trump even if indicted on felony counts. Truly inspirational.
JRH (14e837) — 12/13/2023 @ 11:24 am@446 JRH (14e837) — 12/13/2023 @ 11:24 am
tbf, DeSantis has been going to town against Trump lately.
First, by pointing out that Trump’s focus is going to be divided by trying to campaign vs. having to sit in federal court for his trials.
This is most recent criticism:
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/desantis-blasts-trumps-offensive-comments-about-debating-clinton-after-access-hollywood-tape-release/?utm_source=recirc-desktop&utm_medium=homepage&utm_campaign=hero&utm_content=related&utm_term=first
DeSantis, nor anyone else don’t need to go to “scorched earth” on Trump. Just continue to contrast and compare.
Scorching earth is also not a viable pathway, because if a non-Trump candidate wins the nomination, they’ll need the Trump supporter’s votes in the general.
There’s no need for the candidates to commit Hari-kari.
whembly (5f7596) — 12/13/2023 @ 11:48 amI think this is probably a poll with slanted questions. Others would be family members.
What’s the situation in places that case all votes by mail?
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 12/13/2023 @ 11:57 am“The January 6th indictment coverage is already baked in the polls.”
Wanna bet.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 12/13/2023 @ 12:18 pmFLASHBACK: Joe Biden Called On Justice Department To Prosecute Anyone Defying Congressional Subpoenas
“I hope that the committee goes after them and holds them accountable.”
lloyd (58fc57) — 12/13/2023 @ 12:42 pmNailed it.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/12/lame-ducks-and-dictators/
…
In the real world, the danger of Trump is not an excess of order but the absence of it.
whembly (5f7596) — 12/13/2023 @ 8:28 am
I guessed that it was either Rich Lowry or Michael Brendan Dougherty who wrote that article before I clicked.
There is a great comment under that article, whembly. I rarely quote a comment from another site, but this one is too good to ignore.
I sincerely hope those who say “fret not” about a second Trump presidency have no reason to regret their stance down the road. To me, it’s playing with fire.
norcal (82dad4) — 12/13/2023 @ 12:55 pmWisconsin’s winner take all primary for 41 delegates is on April 2nd.
Campaigning starts in March, as does the trial.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/13/2023 @ 1:20 pmI have to agree with AJ though — even if Trump has the nomination “locked” at convention time, I have a hard time believing that they will nominate a man facing (effectively) life in prison as their candidate. It would not only be Trump losing, but down-ballot would be a slaughter and most delegates have some interest in not be among the “outs.”
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/13/2023 @ 1:24 pmfret not, Trump’s too incompetent, undisciplined, scatterbrained and lazy to be an actual dictator — argument.
This is not a solid argument for nomination, you know.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/13/2023 @ 1:27 pm“The January 6th indictment coverage is already baked in the polls.”
Indeed. I think it will be more a case of “Who knew?” What IS baked into the polls is “he’s inevitable.”
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/13/2023 @ 1:30 pmFor DeSantis or Haley not to go “scorched earth” on Trump while he is going “scorched earth” against them is a recipe for losing. “Compare and contrast” against Trump is a losing political strategy. What is the evidence it works?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/13/2023 @ 1:55 pmVoting will also start in March.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/13/2023 @ 1:56 pm@451
Of course it’s playing with fire with Trump.
We’re on F’n fire NOW with Biden administration and the current crop of Democrat leadership.
What does that say about Democrats?
whembly (5f7596) — 12/13/2023 @ 1:57 pm@450
I’m going to figure this out when I can.
The date from which Bannon refused to comply till his indictment date.
Clock’s ticking…
whembly (5f7596) — 12/13/2023 @ 1:58 pmI’ll take that bet. I doubt Trump’s national poll numbers don’t dip below 50% before the trial starts.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/13/2023 @ 1:58 pm@456
We don’t know yet, because there hasn’t been any vote casted yet.
But, it’s not a stretch to think that non-Trump candidates need to navigate a way to campaign against Trump without disparaging the Trump voters.
No matter how you slice it, GOP Presidential nominees cannot win the General without the OG Trump voters.
whembly (5f7596) — 12/13/2023 @ 2:01 pmTrump Civil Litigation Watch:
………..
IThe appeal heard by U.S. Circuit Judges Jose Cabranes, Denny Chin, and Maria Araujo Kahn — appointed by Presidents Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, and Joe Biden — related to Trump’s failed efforts to jettison another lawsuit brought by writer E. Jean Carroll, whom Trump was found civilly liable in May of sexually assaulting in the 1990s and defaming decades later when he denied her accusations.
“Is presidential immunity waivable? And if so, did Defendant waive it? The answer to both questions is yes,” the appellate judges concluded, since Trump failed to raise that “affirmative defense in his answer” to Carroll’s defamation complaint.
……….
The three-judge panel began by walking through the history of the “presidential immunity” defense from civil liability, pointing to Nixon v. Fitzgerald and Clinton v. Jones:
The Second Circuit panel found “Nixon hurts, not helps, Defendant’s case” that the immunity argument “is a jurisdictional defense and is thus nonwaivable.”
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/13/2023 @ 2:15 pm……….
Treating Trump with kid gloves hasn’t worked. He still dominates the polls.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/13/2023 @ 2:17 pmWhy (and how) would the SCOTUS get involved if Trump pardons himself? Who would have standing to challenge it?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/13/2023 @ 2:21 pmThwarting the voters will much?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/13/2023 @ 2:23 pm@464
SCOTUS won’t take it up, as POTUS pardon power is plenary.
However, I can certainly see Congress impeach/remove him for this.
whembly (5f7596) — 12/13/2023 @ 2:32 pm@463
If polls ends up being wrong, how will you go on?
whembly (5f7596) — 12/13/2023 @ 2:33 pm#467
Fret not. Rip will always go on.
Appalled (e77e15) — 12/13/2023 @ 2:43 pm@468
Good, good…
I just hope the polls are wrong.
I don’t want a Trump v Biden part deux election… **stamps feets**
But, if the polls are vastly wrong.
LOTS of introspection about polls.
Here’s the thing: Polling is an industry. They’re selling something to someone.
Work your way back from that, and maybe we shouldn’t put too much stock in polls to begin with.
whembly (5f7596) — 12/13/2023 @ 2:49 pmOnly if the Democrats control the House, and I doubt they could get 66 votes in the Senate. The Republican MAGA caucus would cheer, not condemn, a Trump self-pardon.
I will be just fine. I don’t care who leads the Republican primary polls, it’s just that Trump’s lead is so large and enduring (despite four indictments, etc.) it is unprecedented in American political history. Those who construct fantasies about how to thwart Trump during the campaign or at convention don’t take this loyalty into account. Anti-Trumpers don’t accept the fact that Trump’s base is unique to him and not the Republican party per se.
I find it hard to believe that a convention that consists of a majority of Trump delegates would change their minds and deny him the nomination. His supporters would never vote for DeSantis or Haley because they will not provide the retribution they seek.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/13/2023 @ 2:58 pmWhat would yo do if the polls are right?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/13/2023 @ 2:59 pm@471
Pick myself back up and do the hard work convincing folks that a 2nd Trump term is a much better alternative to continuing the policies of Biden/Democrat policies.
whembly (5f7596) — 12/13/2023 @ 3:08 pmAs I suspected; but why would you need to convince people after Trump was re-elected?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/13/2023 @ 3:12 pm@434 No break down in poll on party affiliation? Republicans like ann coulter have admitted to voting twice and woman in az was prosecuted for voting for mitt romney twice. Republicans tend to be more crooked so a little there ;but trumpsters in an anonymous poll where they wont get prosecuted will lie and say the cheated to skew the poll. Changing results of elections nil.
asset (b46007) — 12/13/2023 @ 3:16 pm@432 in 2016 hillary had a 20+ point lead over bernie sanders in michigan primary and lost election.
asset (b46007) — 12/13/2023 @ 3:19 pm@438 No your enemy. sun tzu. To many never trumpers no neither their enemy or themselves especially here.
asset (b46007) — 12/13/2023 @ 3:22 pmLike Sun Yat-sen wrote in his classic treatise “Maintaining Your AOC Doll At Optimum Inflation”, in cave man days, if you ordered three from Column A and two from Column B, and did not get a free egg-roll, you could eat the waiter.
nk (40e396) — 12/13/2023 @ 3:28 pm@448 In az and I am sure places with mail in ballot signature is check against registration signature before being counted. Some older voters who’s signature changes over time have to come in to recorders office and confirm signature.
asset (b46007) — 12/13/2023 @ 3:28 pmOne easy way to improve mail ballot security: have a Scantron-type PIN field on the envelope.
Sam G (4e6c22) — 12/13/2023 @ 3:30 pm@477 somebodies upset!
asset (b46007) — 12/13/2023 @ 3:32 pm@479 In Pennsylvania you have to sign the outside of the envelope to be counted as republican survey found out that more democrats then republicans forget to sign out side envelope.
asset (b46007) — 12/13/2023 @ 3:37 pmI think that Trump’s insanity has advanced so far that it will make no difference to him whether he is actually elected President. No matter the outcome of the election, he will be THE REAL PRESIDENT, having won in a landslide.
If he ever has brushes of lucidity, they will only extend to the subjunctive mood, claiming that he could and would have fixed the deficit, ended all the wars, permanently secured the border, and solved the Earth’s energy problems, if not stymied by RINOS, Deep State, Jack Smith, and judges “who hate Trump”.
nk (40e396) — 12/13/2023 @ 3:44 pmReference to prior year elections are really irrelevant to 2023. No previous candidate really inspires the devotion of MAGA supporters for Donald Trump. The demographics are different, especially when comparisons are made with Democratic voters.
Hillary didn’t “lose” the election in the 2016 Michigan primary. She came in second to Sanders (by 1.42%), but still received 63 delegates to Sanders’ 67. Hardly a blowout.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/13/2023 @ 3:59 pmTrump J6 trial delayed
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/13/2023 @ 4:18 pmThat pretty much cinches it that the trial won’t happen until summer 2024 (during the convention). Great split screen; the convention nominating Trump while he exits the courthouse.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/13/2023 @ 4:23 pmOnly if SCOTUS takes a long time to decide. Otherwise there’s no reason a trial cannot proceed as planned.
SamG (4e6c22) — 12/13/2023 @ 4:26 pm@481 it’d still be more secure. As you noted: signatures change over time, and a PIN set during registration just makes sense
SamG (4e6c22) — 12/13/2023 @ 4:28 pmGiven the news above, it is highly unlikely that the election interference trial would proceed before the Supreme Court has ruled on the obstruction charge.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/13/2023 @ 5:28 pmThe perfect gift for your Trumpist relative.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/13/2023 @ 5:42 pm@481 it’d still be more secure. As you noted: signatures change over time, and a PIN set during registration just makes sense
Everyone would use 1234
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/13/2023 @ 5:44 pmthat more democrats then republicans forget to sign out side envelope
Clearly this means that Republicans are smarter. There are lots of ways to do this better, but as long as we insist on coddling the technologically-declined we are stuck with these 19th century methods.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/13/2023 @ 5:47 pmBest method I’ve heard to validate the vote without imposing additional technology is to use banks and their teller machines. You get mailed a paper with a QR code, and take it and your picture ID to a voting machine at your bank or at an official voting site. The code gets you the proper ballot and you and your ID are photographed and the ID is matched against the code.
Then you vote. Once.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/13/2023 @ 5:51 pmBanks are involved because they know how to make this crap work.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/13/2023 @ 5:52 pm@477 nk I forgot to ask where you get one? I also need a Hailie Deegan one. She is my little race girl who is going to be the first woman to win a nascar cup race as she has already won 3 nascar races in lower series.
asset (baf8e0) — 12/13/2023 @ 6:11 pmOf course it’s playing with fire with Trump.
We’re on F’n fire NOW with Biden administration and the current crop of Democrat leadership.
What does that say about Democrats?
whembly (5f7596) — 12/13/2023 @ 1:57 pm
Trump is going to pose a Constitutional crisis with his convictions / self pardons / ignoring state AGs / and probably even ignoring the Supreme Court.
A Constitutional crisis is a bigger fire than anything Biden is doing.
norcal (2a0769) — 12/13/2023 @ 6:43 pm“I don’t care who leads the Republican primary polls”
Are you sure about that? It does seem to be your thing.
AJ_Liberty (d031c1) — 12/13/2023 @ 7:20 pmThe circuit court has already accepted an expedited appeal re the immunity issue – and due to the Trump legal team’s complaint about their response due date of 12/26 it’s been set for 12/23.
DOJ on 12/30, Trump reply on 1/2.
SamG (4e6c22) — 12/13/2023 @ 8:24 pmA self-pardon is obviously not going to fly, if you read the Founder’s discussions about pardons and reservations about a criminal executive pardoning people. If they had even once considered a “self-pardon” they would have left the power with the Senate.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/13/2023 @ 10:05 pmDOJ on 12/30, Trump reply on 1/2.
Given that, I see no reason why the judge cannot restart her proceedings.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/13/2023 @ 10:07 pmA self-pardon is obviously not going to fly, if you read the Founder’s discussions about pardons and reservations about a criminal executive pardoning people.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/13/2023 @ 10:05 pm
My concern is that if the Supreme Court rules against Trump regarding a self-pardon, or anything else for that matter, he will just ignore the Court’s ruling. If he can ignore election results and summon mobs, he can ignore the Supreme Court. I don’t want to see a showdown like that.
norcal (909c7b) — 12/13/2023 @ 10:25 pmFilling out a family member’s ballot is still illegal. Try again.
NJRob (bd6253) — 12/14/2023 @ 5:24 amFilling out a family member’s ballot is still illegal. Try again.
Since Sammy hasn’t, I will. Try again.
Filling out a family member’s ballot, your family’s or anybody else’s family’s, is not illegal. Your local rules may require you to disclose that it was with assistance, identify the assistant, and have him sign something.
I have assisted a family member with voting and I have seen volunteers at my precinct assist others. Fill out a ballot, put in an envelop, drop in a box (early) voting, as well as two in a booth, fill out ballot, hand to election judge voting.
nk (1ab1f5) — 12/14/2023 @ 7:09 am@473
I wasn’t talking about post-General election. I was talking about during the General election.
Polls, imo, are mercurial and can flux quite a bit. The outcome is not written in granite, no matter what the polls says.
whembly (5f7596) — 12/14/2023 @ 7:34 amPolls measure sentiment at the time of the response. Anyone that says otherwise is mistaken/lying.
Usually phrase the questions as “if the election was held today” or “if you intend to vote who do you intend to vote for…l
They can ask questions about how firm your opinion is…but new info/events can change things.
That said Trump is clearly the most popular primary candidate today.
Time123 (c29514) — 12/14/2023 @ 7:41 am@495
I bring this up every now again and remain perplex why people don’t respond enthusiastically to this idea.
Use the existing ATM/teller machines to accept/process votes.
Most states has State IDs that the ATM machines can read to identify the person. The voting registration department can facility voting communication, education and provide a voting-year specific PIN number.
Then, go to any ATM machine during voting period and cast your vote.
If we trust the “system” to handle our money accurately, what’s the opposition to leverage this “system” to handle our vote?
whembly (5f7596) — 12/14/2023 @ 7:41 am@497
Objection, calls for fact not in evidence.
Well… * takes a loooong drag of my cig * that’s like… your opinion maaaaan.
I think it’d be more of the same of his 1st team, and since he’d be a lame duck…even more neutered.
I’ll take a neutered Trump over Biden administration.
Would rather it be Haley or DeSantis though.
whembly (5f7596) — 12/14/2023 @ 7:45 am@500
Kev, the various founders did consider whether or not POTUS may self-pardon himself.
And, in the end, chosen NOT to limit it in the founding documents.
That’s because they viewed Congress’ impeachment powers as enough “check” against an abusive President.
whembly (5f7596) — 12/14/2023 @ 7:48 am@502
Seriously doubt SCOTUS would intervene as, the plaintiff would need to have standing.
Who would have standing?
Furthermore, it’s widely understood that the POTUS’ pardon powers over federal crimes are plenary, so the courts could deem that as “non-justiciable”.
whembly (5f7596) — 12/14/2023 @ 7:50 amOur entire Constitution was infused with checks and balances, so it makes no sense that any person under law gets to be the judge in his own case.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 12/14/2023 @ 8:07 amFor the reasons here, I think Supreme Court would strike down a self-pardon.
@511
I’m familiar with that article.
I don’t think SCOTUS would even take it up because there’s no clear limiting factor (pardoning federal crimes). Nevermind the standing issues with such a case.
The best way to reign this idea is, imo, is either a Constitution amendment expressly forbidding that (doubtful), or Congress voraciously impeaches and removed the president.
whembly (5f7596) — 12/14/2023 @ 8:19 amTrump’s polling in the Republican primary race has been remarkably consistent since at least April/May 2023, at both the national level (where DeSantis is about to fall into third place) and in Iowa and New Hampshire (where DeSantis is in fourth place). They haven’t been “mercurial” at all.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/14/2023 @ 8:22 amWho would have standing to challenge a self-pardon? That is not discussed in the linked article.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/14/2023 @ 8:24 amWho would have standing to challenge a self-pardon?
The prison guards’ union?
Just kidding. Well, no, not really. I’m not an expert on qui tam law, but private individuals can bring actions on behalf of the government, when the DOJ does not.
nk (1ab1f5) — 12/14/2023 @ 8:34 amStanding: how about his federal jury, the judge, the prosecutor. All have problems, but the SC will want to weigh in. They will find an argument to take it. The idea that “Trump’s Justices” will protect him is laughable. They have their position; they don’t need him.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 12/14/2023 @ 9:00 amPrivate individuals would need to show that they “”suffered an “injury in fact.” This means the injury must have been caused in some way by the actions of the defendant, and the court must be able to provide a form of redress.” An individual would need to show that they had a personal stake in the outcome, not “when all they can claim is that they have an interest or have suffered an injury that is shared by all members of the public.”
Source
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/14/2023 @ 9:03 amRidiculous. On what grounds could they challenge a self-pardon? They will not have been personally injured if Trump pardons himself. Such a challenge will be dismissed out of hand.
Whembly is right-the only constitutional response would be impeachment and removal from office, but I doubt the House would impeach, or the Senate convict. Even if the Republicans take control of the Senate, there won’t be 66 votes to remove Trump from office.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/14/2023 @ 9:10 am@516
What is the federal crime a hypothetical POTUS is breaking when pardoning him/herself?
Start there.
Then, embrace the idea that not ALL BAD ACTS are in fact penal crimes. In fact, many bad acts are simply moral fails. Or, even political failings.
To me, a self-pardoning is an outrageous political act of abuse that an Impeachment & Removal is the most appropriate mechanism for prosecution and future deterrence.
whembly (5f7596) — 12/14/2023 @ 9:11 amSee Dick run. See Jane run.
The government is not “all members of the public”. It is The Government.
A qui tam action vindicates a governmental interest, not a general public interest, and there is a valid governmental interest in enforcing the criminal laws of the United States.
I am not saying that it’s cut and dried. But there are private actions to enforce EPA rules and even to collect taxes, that are not barred by an elementary understanding of “Cases and Controversies”.
nk (1ab1f5) — 12/14/2023 @ 9:26 am@511 “Our entire Constitution was infused with checks and balances, so it makes no sense that any person under law gets to be the judge in his own case.”
A Constitution inundated with safeguards against prosecutorial overreach, as our Constitution is, would absolutely allow a president elected by the people to pardon himself. And, if you prefer, pardon his son.
lloyd (ba10a3) — 12/14/2023 @ 9:53 amI don’t want to see a showdown like that.
If he’s elected, I see no hope for avoiding it. Acquiescing is worse. If it takes the US Marine Corps to pry him out of the WH, so be it.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/14/2023 @ 10:43 amI have assisted a family member with voting
As have I. But I will note that assisted living homes and such are rife with children voting their parents ballots with little attention to their parent’s desires. It’s too easy and integrity is not.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/14/2023 @ 10:45 amKev, the various founders did consider whether or not POTUS may self-pardon himself.
Please give me a link. Their deliberations were published, and there are also the Federalist Papers. Either the Paper #, or the date of the discussion at the Convention, will do.
I have repeated searched for that. There was long debate over whether placing the pardon power in the Executive was better than placing it in the Legislature. There were people who so disliked that a President could pardon his thugs that they walked out, but no mention was made of him pardoning himself.
Prove me wrong.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/14/2023 @ 10:49 amAnd, in the end, chosen NOT to limit it in the founding documents.
The question was about having an exception for treason, not self-pardons.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/14/2023 @ 10:52 amSeriously doubt SCOTUS would intervene as, the plaintiff would need to have standing.
Who would have standing?
Jack Smith.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/14/2023 @ 10:54 amThe point being is that the SC would want to make a ruling and would find a way. If they dismissed on standing, they had better be unanimous.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/14/2023 @ 10:58 am@525
IF you’re referring to what I believe was Edmund Randolph’s warnings, yes you’re right, but c’mon guys use common sense. The founders were well aware that POTUS “would” have the power to pardon himself in the context of these debates, and that at ANY TIME, they could’ve added more restrictions than already discussed.
whembly (5f7596) — 12/14/2023 @ 11:08 am@526
You’re going to have to elaborate on this… I don’t see the connection.
@527
Why?
whembly (5f7596) — 12/14/2023 @ 11:10 am@ Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/14/2023 @ 10:49 am
https://teachingamericanhistory.org/document/gerry-mason-and-randolph-decline-to-sign-the-constitution/
I’ve bounced around this site, please, you do the research yourself.
whembly (5f7596) — 12/14/2023 @ 11:16 am@ Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/14/2023 @ 10:49 am
whembly (5f7596) — 12/14/2023 @ 11:20 amAfter quick search, you can narrow it down to Federalist Nos. 69 and 74.
whembly (5f7596) — 12/14/2023 @ 7:41
what an atM does is not secret, and a person can give his card to somebody else or ee=ven create an authorized user.
You could deposit $1 or $5 into a bank account or mail a check for every vote, and that wouklld prevent somebody having their vote stolen.
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 12/14/2023 @ 11:49 amI’ve bounced around this site, please, you do the research yourself.
Your the one that made the claim. Now you tell me to do the research to disprove you? [rude words deleted]
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/14/2023 @ 12:32 pmIF you want to actually do the research, go here: https://oll.libertyfund.org/title/farrand-the-records-of-the-federal-convention-of-1787-3vols
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/14/2023 @ 12:34 pmBut I see nothing new in the link you posted — it’s a subset of the discussions in Farrand’s Records.
The pardon power was controversial, particularly regarding treason, but also in concentrating it in the hands of the Executive it could be misused by a criminal president to pardon his minions. But NOWHERE was a self-pardon discussed and had they thought it possible they probably would have gone with the Senate-vote alternative.
Historically, going back to Britain, there had never been such an attempt and even schemers like Elbridge Gerry (who also left without signing) didn’t think of it.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/14/2023 @ 12:40 pmPresidential self-pardon is the twin brother of Presidential immunity and their sister is Article I, Section 3, Clause 7:
So I read all that as saying that the President can neither avoid prosecution nor pardon himself.
nk (1ab1f5) — 12/14/2023 @ 12:45 pm@537 “but the Party convicted” means impeachment happens first, rendering the pardon power moot.
The Founders gave deference to the will of the people, and this is no different.
lloyd (a6b452) — 12/14/2023 @ 1:02 pmWhere’s Scalia when we need him?
Or, that it was a safeguard against the English writs of attainder (criminal conviction and criminal penalties imposed by a legislative body) and, simultaneously, foreclosure of a claim of double jeopardy.
nk (1ab1f5) — 12/14/2023 @ 1:08 pmMy 540 was to lloyd’s 538.
nk (1ab1f5) — 12/14/2023 @ 1:09 pm@534
Demanding exacting citation because you don’t like how it undermines your position isn’t going to get you far Kev.
@536
Kevin, I’m going to try to be as charitable as possible here.
This has never been tested by the judiciary, so you and I don’t know for sure what’s going to happen.
But to say that self-pardons, itself a corrupt act mind you, was never discussed as a possibility by our founding founders is simply myopic.
There are oodles of analysis, papers and studies about this very subject and I will spend “some” of my time to try to point out, that yes, self-corrupt dealings by POTUS with respect to pardon powers were debated:
https://arizonastatelawjournal.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Eckstein-Colby-Final.pdf
Paul posted a link from AEI article supposings that POTUS could not self pardon, but here’s an AEI article where he could:
https://www.aei.org/articles/trump-has-the-power-to-pardon-himself-but-that-could-get-him-impeached/
So, to recap, YES our founding founders discuss scenarios that an abusive POTUS, in naked self-dealing, may be able to self-pardon. And that, public perception and the impeachment process would be a sufficient backstop against a hypothetical abusive pardons.
Is that enough citation for you?
Why are you so agitated about this?
whembly (5f7596) — 12/14/2023 @ 1:15 pmNo, he wouldn’t. Smith would need to show that he “”suffered an “injury in fact.” This means the injury must have been caused in some way by the actions of the defendant, and the court must be able to provide a form of redress.” He would need to show that he had a personal stake in the outcome, not “when all they can claim is that they have an interest or have suffered an injury that is shared by all members of the public.”
Smith would not suffer a personal injury by a Trump self-pardon, nor could he sue on behalf of the public.
See here.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/14/2023 @ 1:16 pmThe Founders gave deference to the will of the people, and this is no different.
Find something — ANYTHING — that suggests that a president can pardon himself. Other than some musings from Trump partisans.
If such a power existed it would make all post-impeachment prosecution impossible because even a VERY stupid president would pardon himself during any Senate vote he might lose.
So, nk’s point is quite apt.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/14/2023 @ 1:17 pm@544
Please point out in Article II, Section 2, Clause 1 of the Constitution where he cannot.
Now I’m demanding an explicit citation.
Or, you can admit that you have a different opinion.
Up to you.
Except the pardon powers is expressly prohibited for impeachment.
How are you missing this?
whembly (5f7596) — 12/14/2023 @ 1:32 pmThe absence of an explicit bar to presidential self-pardons in the Constitution suggests it would be permissible. Again, how could it be challenged in the courts, given that no one would suffer a particularized harm by a self-pardon by Trump to create standing? You are correct that it would make post-impeachment prosecution impossible, but that’s just the way our system would work. Nk’s point may be apt, but it is constitutionally incorrect.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/14/2023 @ 1:33 pmA President, foreseeing that he would lose in the Senate and be removed from office, would pardon himself preemptively to at least avoid criminal prosecution.
nk (1ab1f5) — 12/14/2023 @ 1:36 pmIf a president is elected as a convicted federal felon, he would pardon himself whether or not he faced impeachment.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/14/2023 @ 1:42 pm@544 “If such a power existed it would make all post-impeachment prosecution impossible because even a VERY stupid president would pardon himself during any Senate vote he might lose.”
Pardoning himself before being indicted would a clever trick for any president. If you think the Constitution was written with deference given to prosecutors, you have a lot more work to do. Impeach first, then indict, judge and punish, just as it says.
lloyd (a6b452) — 12/14/2023 @ 1:45 pm@547 nk (1ab1f5) — 12/14/2023 @ 1:36 pm
Okay, I see what you and Kevin are saying.
Yes, a POTUS could theoretically pardon himself to avoid prosecution after being removed from office.
whembly (5f7596) — 12/14/2023 @ 1:46 pm@550 well… technically, he’d have to do it right before the Senate votes to remove him from office, but I hope you got my drift.
whembly (5f7596) — 12/14/2023 @ 1:48 pmIf the indictment happened before being elected president, then the people have spoken. They apparently didn’t think much of the indictment or conviction. Too bad prosecutors don’t rule the world.
lloyd (a6b452) — 12/14/2023 @ 1:54 pmI had a long long post and it was eaten by my internet going down. The gist of it is that there was CONSIDERABLE discussion over several months at the Convention regarding the pardon power.
In June, mid-August and mid-September the brought it up and hashed and rehashed several problems. All information from Farrand, volumes 1 & 2.
The initial reading (June 18th & 19th) had a treason exception.
In late July, the “Committee of Detail” returned a version that had dropped the treason exception and added the impeachment exception.
On August 25th, it was proposed that pardons would require the consent of the Senate, but that was rejected 8-1.
On August 27th, the issue of limiting pardons to follow conviction came up, but was withdrawn (clearly showing that permitting pardons prior to conviction was intended)
On September 10th, Mr Randolph took the floor to argue several points:
Again the pardon power is a problem. I note the small size of the House was a concern even then.
On September 15th, Randolph was back at it:
This last bit is instructive as it makes utterly no sense if a self-pardon was even considered.
They went on:
Mr Randolph’s motion was not agreed to and he did not sign the resulting document for reasons he had previously stated.
Kevin M (034d52) — 12/14/2023 @ 2:03 pmThat assumes he knows he has committed a crime before he leaves office (Presidents cannot be indicted while in office).
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/14/2023 @ 2:04 pmAnd I’ll excerpt this point out from my last:
Mr Wilson. Pardon is necessary for cases of treason, and is best placed in the hands of the Executive. If he be himself a party to the guilt he can be impeached and prosecuted.
This last bit is instructive as it makes utterly no sense if a self-pardon was even considered.
Kevin M (034d52) — 12/14/2023 @ 2:05 pmPardoning himself before being indicted would a clever trick for any president.
Nixon was pardoned before he was indicted. Why didn’t he self-pardon just before resigning?
Kevin M (034d52) — 12/14/2023 @ 2:06 pmWhy doesn’t EVERY president self-pardon on the morning of his last day in office?
Kevin M (034d52) — 12/14/2023 @ 2:08 pmNixon was never indicted; he was named as an “unindicted co-conspirator.”
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/14/2023 @ 2:10 pm@558: Unresponsive and immaterial.
Kevin M (034d52) — 12/14/2023 @ 2:12 pmNixon was never indicted; he was named as an “unindicted co-conspirator.”
No one is indicted for an offense they have already been pardoned for. Ford gave him a blanket pardon. Nixon, in theory, could have given himself a blanket pardon as he boarded the helicopter.
Kevin M (034d52) — 12/14/2023 @ 2:14 pmYou are the one who said:
And as said, Nixon was never indicted. It’s “unresponsive and immaterial” only because you have the facts wrong.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/14/2023 @ 2:15 pmWhich was a mistake. The Justice Department should have filed their draft indictment of Nixon, but the pardon prevented it. Nixon got off scott free.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/14/2023 @ 2:18 pmBiden halts sale of 20,000 assault rifles to Israeli settlers. They will have to use other weapons to murder west bank palestinians when stealing their land.
asset (09d958) — 12/14/2023 @ 2:27 pmThe problem with the standing question is that Trump can bypass it by stepping down via the 25th amendment and allowing his elevated lackey VP to pardon him instead. It really comes down to the people not voting for someone who will likely need a pardon….and then might not escape state felony charges. The Constitution only works for an electorate that is not corrupt. Right now, we’re looking to test that. Trump deserves his due process and day(s) in court. Evidence and argument should win out.
The current standing precedent CAN be set aside or modified by the Court. It’s not intended to be a straight jacket that prevents consideration of highly unusual cases. Little has been written by scholars on the current standing topic other than it will be difficult under current precedent. It’s further complicated by the above end run that the Court obviously recognizes. Play with fire….this is how things you value burn. No way will independents elect a felon.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 12/14/2023 @ 2:28 pmNixon had to testify truthfully regarding others who were charged, and he did. He could not plead the 5th, and he couldn’t be pardoned for future perjury.
Kevin M (034d52) — 12/14/2023 @ 2:28 pmThe problem with the standing question is that Trump can bypass it by stepping down via the 25th amendment and allowing his elevated lackey VP to pardon him instead.
Yes, although Congress could plug that hole by creating a “Commission on Presidential Fitness” to take over from the Cabinet.
Kevin M (034d52) — 12/14/2023 @ 2:31 pm@540 Burning in hell.
asset (09d958) — 12/14/2023 @ 2:31 pmWhy didn’t he self-pardon just before resigning?
It was unresponsive since you ignored the operative part of the post, above.
Kevin M (034d52) — 12/14/2023 @ 2:32 pmNixon, after being told by House and Senate Republicans — yes, really, Republicans — that he would be impeached and removed, went away quietly. He was a patriot who did not want more turmoil in the country.
Trump is not a patriot. He is Putin’s retribution on America for the collapse of the Soviet Union.
All these legalistics we are kicking around won’t be worth a whit if he is elected.
All the pezzonovantes in the country will be looking to keep things running smoothly. To avoid a civil war. To avoid the breakup of America. If for no other reason than that America has been very, very good to them.
So they will let Trump be sworn in, and put on dog and pony shows for their constituencies, and let time deal with Trump, praying that he does not bulldoze them out of their comfort zones in some way or other before it does.
nk (5427e4) — 12/14/2023 @ 2:35 pmAnd as said, Nixon was never indicted. It’s “unresponsive and immaterial” only because you have the facts wrong.
You also cannot parse a simple English sentence. “Pardoned before he was indicted” does not mean he was indicted, but that he was pardoned before there was any indictment.
I had left it to the reader to realize that indicting someone after they are pardoned never happens. I guess I needed to spell that out.
Kevin M (034d52) — 12/14/2023 @ 2:37 pmHe is Putin’s retribution on America for the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Putin did not create Trump. Trump is a spoiled rich brat that does what he wants. Trump does not consider what Putin wants, any more than he considers what Melania wants.
Kevin M (034d52) — 12/14/2023 @ 2:39 pm@513 the difference between trumpsters and never trumpers is in their different delusions. Both have trump derangement syndrome but different kinds. As one who sees both good and bad in trump I neither love him or hate him. If he wins it all ;but assures AOC the presidency as corporate establishment democrats will be completely discredited and the left takes over the party.
asset (09d958) — 12/14/2023 @ 2:42 pmI realized my interpretive mistake when I posted about how Ford’s pardon was a mistake-he should have at least let Nixon be indicted befor pardoning.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/14/2023 @ 2:49 pm@573: Sorry for being so pissy, Rip. I’m terribly frustrated with my bouncy internet today.
Kevin M (034d52) — 12/14/2023 @ 3:23 pm“The Secretary of State must place Trump on this ballot, regardless of whether he would be disqualified from holding office by the Insurrection Clause,” said the opinion from Judges Anica Letica, Michael Riordan and Thomas Cameron.
This is probably correct legally. But it portends a trainwreck if he is nominated.
Kevin M (034d52) — 12/14/2023 @ 3:27 pmThe insurrection clause comes up AFTER someone is elected. It could be before someone is sworn in.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 12/14/2023 @ 4:08 pmIn presidential primaries, a satte may set its own rules, and aparty is free to use different ones. The Republican Party generally abides by state law.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 12/14/2023 @ 4:09 pmThe insurrection clause comes up AFTER someone is elected. It could be before someone is sworn in.
Please show your work. Particularly how a disqualified person gets on the ballot.
Kevin M (034d52) — 12/14/2023 @ 4:17 pm563.
asset (09d958) — 12/14/2023 @ 2:27 pm
So you know that there’s been a series of (mostly failed) terrorist attacks on Israelis in the West Bank and Jerusalem since October 7, ranging from rock throwing, through automobile crashing, to something worse. There Israelis have been killed.
https://www.israeltoday.co.il/read/over-1300-palestinian-terror-attacks-in-west-bank-since-october-7
And now there are plots in Europe.
Sponsored no doubt by Iran but using Hamas members in Germany (where it is outlawed) – and a second independent plot in Denmark.
https://www.newser.com/story/343886/germany-says-hamas-planned-attacks-in-europe.html
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 12/14/2023 @ 4:26 pmSammy, asset has a point. The people settling the West Bank are pretty much Irgun types who see nothing wrong with running Arabs off their God-given land. The Arabs may attack some of them with rocks, but the settlers use machine guns, which are rather more effective.
Anyone who goes to build a settlement in the middle of people who hate them is not well mentally.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/14/2023 @ 5:23 pmIowa State University/Civiqs Poll 12/14/23
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/14/2023 @ 5:59 pmSo what I am reading in today’s portion of this post is:
1. If Trump is elected he cannot be prosecuted.
2. He can pardon himself from any crimes that may or may have been committed.
3. He would pardon himself.
4. No one would have standing to stop him.
5. Congress won’t impeach.
6. Some people, even knowing that, will still vote for him because it’s better to have a lawless criminal who will do whatever he wants and no one can or will stop him than to have someone who they disagree with on policy questions.
Anyone taken a seismic reading at Mt. Vernon lately?
Nic (896fdf) — 12/14/2023 @ 6:33 pm@583
Multiple different administration’s Whitehouse counsel has argued that a sitting president cannot be indicted.
Furthermore, POTUS can direct the DOJ to drop active prosecutions.
For federal crimes yes. There’s a debate about whether he could, but it appears the black letter of the law that he could.
That’s a different question than…should he.
Yeah, I think Trump would.
In court, it doesn’t look like it.
Eh… I think it’s easier for the House to impeach. It’s a matter of whether or not the Senate would convict/remove.
Even if Senate does not convict/remove… being a thrice impeached POTUS will historically make him infamous.
Project much?
Maybe try writing a fiction? Looks like you might have some talent. 😉
That’s cute.
whembly (4ad736) — 12/14/2023 @ 9:02 pmhttps://nypost.com/2023/12/14/news/harvard-forces-jewish-student-group-to-hide-menorah-at-night-for-fear-of-vandalism-rabbi-says/
Keep supporting leftism.
“On our campus in the shadow of Widener Library, we in the Jewish community are instructed, ‘We’ll let you have the menorah, you made your point, OK. Pack it up, don’t leave it out overnight because there will be criminal activity we fear and it won’t look good’,” Rabbi Hirschy Zarchi said at a Hanukkah lighting Wednesday night
NJRob (eb56c3) — 12/14/2023 @ 9:06 pm@580 Oct.7 is the excuse the settlers use when they kill hundreds of west bank palestinians and steal their land. Didn’t give number of murdered palestinians killed by settler. Forget? What was their excuse for stealing palestinian land and killing the palestinian before oct. 7? If settlers kicked you out of where you live you might throw rocks too! How is stealing palestinian land on the west bank fighting Hamas terrorists who came from Gaza? Some of these land stealing religious zealots are exempt from their military draft. This was the deal netanyahu made with religious parties to stay in power.
asset (2b4a4f) — 12/14/2023 @ 9:23 pm@585 I believe their are campus police who’s job is to protect and serve written on the sides of their police cars though they must have run out of paint where I live because they didn’t finish protect the wealthy and serve them. They must not watch cop shows on TV sting operations are all over them.
asset (2b4a4f) — 12/14/2023 @ 9:31 pm@Whembly@584 What was incorrect here: “6. Some people, even knowing that, will still vote for him because it’s better to have a lawless criminal who will do whatever he wants and no one can or will stop him than to have someone who they disagree with on policy questions.”?
Nic (896fdf) — 12/14/2023 @ 9:53 pmAnyone taken a seismic reading at Mt. Vernon lately?
Wrap a few wires around George and we could solve the energy crisis. At least points 1-5 are wrong.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/14/2023 @ 10:01 pmPardon himself?
@555 is a mike drop.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 12/14/2023 @ 10:02 pmBiden’s spokes person just incriminated her boss for witness tampering. Yesterday she said president biden talked to hunter about not testifying before congress impeachment inquiry. That is witness tampering.
asset (2b4a4f) — 12/14/2023 @ 10:44 pmProject much?
Maybe try writing a fiction? Looks like you might have some talent. 😉
Anyone taken a seismic reading at Mt. Vernon lately?
Nic (896fdf) — 12/14/2023 @ 6:33 pm
That’s cute.
whembly (4ad736) — 12/14/2023 @ 9:02 pm
You’re better than that, whembly. We had a respectful dialogue. You can do the same with Nic.
norcal (c94f44) — 12/14/2023 @ 11:31 pm@588
Because you’re positing that Biden/Democrats is simply “someone who they disagree with on policy questions”.
The things the Biden/Democrat has done these last few years has far exceeded that.
whembly (5f7596) — 12/15/2023 @ 6:16 am@592
My tolerance waned here because I’ve routinely stated that I believe Biden/Democrats has far exceeded mere “policy differences”.
So positing ” it’s better to have a lawless criminal who will do whatever he wants and no one can or will stop him than to have someone who they disagree with on policy questions” is legit an overwrought fear and is pushed to denigrate folks who’d vote differently.
whembly (5f7596) — 12/15/2023 @ 6:25 amIt’s the usual leftist propaganda meant to scare I’ll informed moderates and squishy Republicans. No different than saying Romney “is going to put ya’ll back in chains” or Paul Ryan is going to “push grandma off a cliff.”
The current favorite is always the awful boogeyman while the old candidates are now considered moderate and respectable.
The line is tired, old and isn’t working anymore.
NJRob (0218b2) — 12/15/2023 @ 7:57 amNic was being charitable. Not to Trump but definitely to his cult.
“Let’s go Brandon!” is not policy differences. It’s visceral hatred because Biden toppled their idol. And they don’t want to be told that the gold and jewels are tinsel and paste.
nk (5427e4) — 12/15/2023 @ 8:19 am@596 nk (5427e4) — 12/15/2023 @ 8:19 am
My visceral hatred towards Biden isn’t due to him beating Trump.
It’s due to Biden and his administration’s absolute disastrous policies that may not ever be mitigated in our lifetime, or even ever.
whembly (5f7596) — 12/15/2023 @ 8:29 am@595
Yup. It’s not working.
IDGAF about how important it is for our politician to be “well liked” or be “stately” or whatever “popularity contest” criterion folks want to advocate for.
I used to…but, I recognize now that it’s playing by the Marquess of Queensberry Rules™.
Politics is about what have you done for me lately. In short, it’s about power.
What party do you want wielding that power?
I’m absolutely, 100%, beyond the shadow of doubt sure, I do not want any Democrats.
Now, you may continually dismiss me, thinking that I’m part of this “Trump cult”. I assure, I am not.
What you really should be asking… is where are the good Democrat candidates? Where are the Democrats that I’d vote for over any GOP candidate, even if that includes Trump?
Because Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, any Clintonite and any Obamaites are NOT any Democrats that I’d consider voting for, as they’re beholden to the extreme leftist/progressives/Marxist/Communist wing of their party.
So, yes, if Trump’s the nominee, I’d vote for him in a heart beat and I’ll do the hard work in trying to convince my peers to ignore his issues by pointing out Democrats are far, far worse for our country.
whembly (5f7596) — 12/15/2023 @ 8:40 amAnd I believe you, whembly, because I share many of your views. Particularly this:
I ask that constantly. And it fills me with weary despair that the only one I can name is my own governor, J. B. Pritzker, and he has decided to sit this one out.
nk (5427e4) — 12/15/2023 @ 8:53 amI was hoping Biden would bow out late summer. He clearly didn’t. I still hope that he might replace Harris with someone with more perception of competence…likely a governor. Intersectionality and diversity tends to hamstring this.
I will have some problems with all of these suggestions on specific issues and with some on personality, but they would all be improvements over Biden: Roy Cooper, Andy Beshear, Mark Warner, Tim Kaine, Jared Polis, Gretchen Whitmer, and Gavin Newsom. There are no media superstars there…for sure…but I think you could find a moderate President in that field (so probably not Newsom) that people could stomach for 4 years.
The political environment sucks right now…and we have to figure out ways to make it better. Both sides seem resistant to that.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 12/15/2023 @ 9:14 am@599
Thanks for this nk…
As for Pritzker, while I have some standard Republican v. Democrat policy differences, he seems like a potential Democrat I could vote over Trump. He doesn’t have my vote automatically, but I’m willing to keep my door open. My key attribute that I’d be lookin for is, is whether or not he can ignore the loud lefties in his party.
whembly (5f7596) — 12/15/2023 @ 9:20 amLOL!
Rip Murdock (dc18a3) — 12/15/2023 @ 10:06 amThey left the party after 1964.
Rip Murdock (dc18a3) — 12/15/2023 @ 10:20 amAnd became Republicans.
Rip Murdock (dc18a3) — 12/15/2023 @ 10:24 amLess informed people assume there must be plenty of them.
Would you believe,,,
The disgraced Andrew Cuomo?? He might be an improvement over Biden.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 12/15/2023 @ 10:46 amIf it’s not a body double, recently sane John Fetterman might merit a look and his “Thomas Eagleton” issues out of the way and already in full view. He’s got a lot of the DSA types in full panic.
https://triblive.com/local/regional/sen-john-fetterman-says-he-is-not-a-progressive/
urbanleftbehind (b9b431) — 12/15/2023 @ 9:57 am
urbanleftbehind (b9b431) — 12/15/2023 @ 10:46 amI wonder if A. Cuomo ends up doing a full Blagojevich turn.
urbanleftbehind (b9b431) — 12/15/2023 @ 10:48 amKevin M (ed969f) — 12/14/2023 @ 5:23 pm
The people setting up places in violation of Israeli law.
Machine guns?? Where did you hear this?
There are trigger happy (or worse!) people.
An Israeli reservist killed an Israeli who had rescued some people just then – he was a hero for doing something like that once before.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/military-police-arrest-reservist-who-shot-hero-civilian-dead-at-terror-attack-scene
The bus stop attack involved some Arabs firing at people waiting for the bus just as a bus stopped to let passengers off.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 12/15/2023 @ 10:59 amBy the way, a lot of land on the West Bank is not privately owned, due to an Ottoman Empire abandoned property law dating from the 1800s, when that whole area was getting depopulated, which declared that such land reverted to the government. It was maintained during he period of the British mandate and rule by Jordan – at least what had already passed into the hands of the state,
Mark Twain wrote about the situation in 1867 in “The Innocents Abroad” (not the law, but he situation.
So sometimes you have two groups of people trying to claim it. The Arabs claim title but may not have it. These things get resolved in court.
Kevin:
Netanyahu has to deal with people like this, but it is not so hard for him not to give them what they want..
There are people who want Israeli sovereignty to be declared – mainly because no Jew can get to own state land on the West Bank, so there are lots of people living with insecure title – they only have 99 year leases.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 12/15/2023 @ 11:06 am@urbanleftbehind
What’s that?
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 12/15/2023 @ 11:08 amNJRob (0218b2) — 12/15/2023 @ 7:57 am
Biden is making claims nowadays about abortion and about health insurance (not democracy etc but rather trying to scare people about things that nay matter to them personally)
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/27/us/politics/trump-biden-obamacare.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/04/us/politics/democrats-governors-biden-trump.html
It’s cynical.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 12/15/2023 @ 11:17 am